career-advice

[peak snow]

Any med students here who are into coding? Lol

[smoky quest]

there was one a few weeks ago. But I don't remember their pseudo

[worthy palm]

Nothing too fancy to be honest. I saw posts on upwork looking for strategy automation which is why i mentioned it. And i have a few friends that dabble in trading bot testing. If someone’s willing to pay to have their strategy automated. Who am i not to take their money?

Those people trade propfirm accounts

[rough elm]

None of the work we do is forex related, besides having to have some cash in a couple different currencies

We being the team I'm on.

[rough elm]

For this the money is fine but I would rather get some guidance or some type of mentorship from somewhere. If you can do both great but if not, I think its best to put more effort into getting the latter.

[worthy palm]

Mentorship is have already so to speak. Been live trading about 3 years successfully so far

Just capital is the only limiting factor

[rough elm]

Maybe build your own testing harness for testing models in a tradebot framework you make? That way you can just sell the testing service for analysts that mostly care about the model, not the actual execution side.

You would have to build in performance metrics, maybe have it auto generate some type of report that you can send. Back testing is probably the easiest test procedure but you should prob add more if you have the time for that.

[delicate flax]

this might sound stupid but can the IQ of someone affect their future career ? (asking cause I took an IQ test today)

[worthy palm]

Oh nah. Strategyquant and tradingview are readily available and very robust

[sour remnant]

Online IQ tests are useless.

[delicate flax]

not online

[worthy palm]

Anyone whos on a higher level of trading will use SQ. Retail traders will use Tradingview or Soft4fx i think thats the name

[sour remnant]

An in person test done by a professional?

[delicate flax]

yes

[sour remnant]

Well how high is your IQ according to the test?

[rough elm]

We built our own testing harness for this actually

[worthy palm]

Why not use established methods?

[delicate flax]

130 (does my age matter?)

[rough elm]

Part compliance part performance per $ spent.

[worthy palm]

Makes sense. Streamline the process

[sour remnant]

Are you sure the test you took was legit?

An IQ of 130 is higher than 98% of the population.

[delicate flax]

yes

[celest kite]

So, IQ is simply a measure of potential. It basically can indicate how hard one theoretically has to work to get a desired intellectual result.

[delicate flax]

rly?

[sour remnant]

Yes.

[rough elm]

I would do a couple of tests to actually verify that result

[sour remnant]

I doubt the result honestly.

[celest kite]

For instance, I read an article about a mechanic who went into IT. And he can manage it but he's operating at the high end of his potential and goes home exhausted every day. Where someone with a high IQ might do the same job with less effort

[near ocean]

IQ discussion in careers channel, for real?

[rough elm]

I never took an iq test but i still have a good job and I dont know of any of my peers that have taken one either.

[near ocean]

All an IQ test shows you is how good you are at taking IQ tests

[rough elm]

Pretty much ye

[worthy palm]

I never took one either but i was smart enough not to have student loans or crippling debt

[rough elm]

What was the purpose of the iq test @delicate flax ?

[delicate flax]

no purpose honestly

I just took it out of curiosity

[sour remnant]

Anyway even if it is real, ignore it.

In 2004, a New York Times reporter asked Stephen Hawking what his IQ was. “I have no idea,” the theoretical physicist replied. “People who boast about their IQ are losers.”

[rough elm]

Lol

If you really wanted to know what your iq is, you have to take a couple of tests spread over a period of a couple months.

And if you then have an answer, there isnt actually anything you should do with that.

[sour remnant]

Wdym out of curiosity? You have to schedule a real test by a licensed psychologist.

[delicate flax]

I did that

[worthy palm]

Left brain / right brain test is more useful

[delicate flax]

also I have a question

[rough elm]

I think all these tests are kinda useless tbh

[near ocean]

This is all pseudopsychology, dont throw your money away

[rough elm]

The only thing I care about when evaluating a potential hire is, can they do the work of a junior (I only evaluate juniors) and do they have the potential to grow beyond junior.

[worthy palm]

Dominant brain gave me insight to my trading mentality though. That was useful

[delicate flax]

what do you think of codeacademy?

[sour remnant]

No such thing.

[rough elm]

It might be good for your own development, but I only care about if you can produce the strategy and also explain why that strategy works.

[sour remnant]

That's pseudoscience.

[near ocean]

I dont think i'd feel ok with hiring someone who comes up with strategies because their "dominant brain" told them to

[rough elm]

Im okay with ppl using placebos to get their minds unstuck or further along in their thought process.

[worthy palm]

Thats a tough one. Almost any strategy can work if you have the mentality to back it up.

[rough elm]

You need to show me the numbers tho, before you start trading that is.

[worthy palm]

How so?

[vague dagger]

That s it? Just search on google and apply? Can u also work from homev
@vapid jay it depends on the job

[near ocean]

Placebo only works if theres someone in the back actually managing it, youre not supposed to do it by yourself lol

[sour remnant]

IQ is not 100% pseudopsychology but it's iffy. Many new studies have shown that lots of claims made about IQ are false. Statistically it's correlated with educational achievement for example, but don't put too much stock into it.

[worthy palm]

That part is the easy part. Trading isn't all about the strategy that you use

[rough elm]

Oh really I didn't know that 🤣

[near ocean]

May as well use divination

[sour remnant]

That's false.

[rough elm]

What else is there?

[sour remnant]

Placebos work even when the person knows it's a placebo. That's how powerful the mind is. There are many studies on this.

[worthy palm]

So you're saying someone who is logical and someone who is carefree use their brains perfectly even?

[worthy palm]

Do you trade? Just curious

[rough elm]

Ye I do as an institutional trader. (retail too but i just follow my own trades )

[worthy palm]

So you automate everything?

[sour remnant]

What you're talking about is pseudoscience. If I paid for that test, I would want my money back.

[rough elm]

I have automated reports that show me most things ye.

[worthy palm]

I dont pay for anything if i can avoid it

[sour remnant]

So you took an online test?

[rough elm]

We define a strategy and test that in various ways, if the tests are satisfied and the potential is higher than other strategies they get implemented.

[worthy palm]

But does the bot trade for you or do you do it? Is your trading 100% automated or does it take human interaction? What i mean is that i trade a strategy that backtests like doodoo but i still come out 30% ROI for the year

[worthy palm]

I did but i already knew the answer before i even started

[sour remnant]

Yeah I would ignore the results.

[rough elm]

Its cant be 100% automated cuz compliance but the stuff that can be automated is yes.

[rough elm]

What are the risk factors for this model?

[inland wave]

Hello guys!
I have a year and a month of expirience as Junior Python developer, and my boss gave me a really good recommendations. Is it possible for me to find a remote job as a developer? If yes, where I can find one? Please keep in mind that I don't have technical degree or degree in computer science

[worthy palm]

I mean if you had a strategy that had satisfactory drawdown and profits. Wouldn't it be optimal to automate it? But that being said. Human intervention can eliminate those potential losing trades based on experience and intuition of market? At least thats how its been for my trading journey

[worthy palm]

I mean they match what i already know so yeah

[sour remnant]

No I'm saying that it's on the same level as horoscopes.

[worthy palm]

Is it though?

[sour remnant]

Yes.

[rough elm]

The difference between retail and institutional trading is that we have to be able to produce "What if" numbers at any point within 24h. That includes stuff like mortgage rates go up by x %. Pure tradebots don't live indefinitely profit wise so you have to reimlpement them every y number of months anyway.

By profit I mean profit above market performance.

No I can follow your institutional trades. Idk about other countries

[worthy palm]

I see. You have a higher standard to live by then us little guys

[rough elm]

There is a lot of complinace garbage i have to deal with

[worthy palm]

No it isnt

[worthy palm]

Ill stick with personal and prop firms thank you very much.

[rough elm]

Im not trading with information that is not available to the public

[worthy palm]

Which is the definition of insider trading.

[near ocean]

Maybe its time to stop, how is this careers related

[worthy palm]

Sounds like a boring time. No thank you.

And you don't know what his company allows or doesn’t so he is probably correct in his statement.

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 , <@&831776746206265384> lets have it deleted

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[tranquil birch]

@silent gyro, we are not an ad board.

[silent gyro]

How is that advertising my friend, am requesting for help advertising for nothing, I thought as a community we are here to help, support one other in developing skills, why when I try to utilize my skill you say you dont want it?

this is a group with a lot of many people you could have just skipped it

[true harness]

there's no point in arguing

[silent gyro]

its ok anyway, I guess you are loaded if you have an idea you wont need people to support you

[fringe sphinx]

fwiw, this board is fairly closely moderated. Perhaps reach out to modmail and ask for clarification on the rules?

[vapid jay]

anyone hav youtube channel related to website development ? please inbox me if have....

[silent gyro]

Agreed I could have asked for permission first but damage already done

[tender thicket]

This server is a place for people to come to each other and share knowledge, offer technical assistance without the inclusion of monetary incentives, and in this specific channel, have personal discussions about python and work

You can to this channel and offered a pitch to give you money so you could build a freelance job marketplace. We can't have that, because the offering of money causes disruption when it comes to moderation. What do we do if someone else offers money, and quotes your post when it comes to being allowed to? What do we do if people get scammed? We have absolutely zero desire to moderate things when it comes to real world money and real world concerns

Attention is a community resource here, not a commodity and not something you should be looking to turn into financial resources.

[silent gyro]

Agreed, but this was also an opportunity for someone to come on board and say 'I have these skills, I think they might help your organization' and we work together,

not just confined to financial support only

[tender thicket]

Sure, but the only kind of that that would be appropriate would be volunteering, and at that for open source, because otherwise the monetary part of it is too closely entwined. And for that, we want contact over modmail so we can approve it and make sure it's something we want to be (even tangentially) associated with.

We can't have "'I have these skills, I think they might help your organization' and we work together" because literally everyone will say that as a way to get around the restrictions. Hence the approval step.

Also, I hate to say this, but this isn't the place to discuss this any further

If you want to ask for clarification/ask for a review of our reasons and actions, please either do it generally in #community-meta or via modmail, so that we can get this channel back on track

[silent gyro]

why are we here supporting each other to get the best skills and become the best developers they can be? to go out and start applying for 100s of freelancing jobs and getting 'sorry...'?

[silent gyro]

you WIN

[hearty island]

guys i'm so excited to use this cert for my career. hopefully recruiters flood my DMs after this

[tender thicket]

Which cert did you get?

lol

[silent gyro]

next time I will do that

[hearty island]

CAPM --> Certified Associate in Project Management

i don't have the experience for the Project Management Professional cert, so that's why i got the CAPM

[silent gyro]

now look at this, @tender thicket do you want to tell me if this guy after the skills they have learnt we won't support him in whatever idea he/she has just because of 'rules',,rules are good but I didnt bend them in the wrong way, I know I needed verification from moderators but at least lets not be hard on one another when we try to grow

[tender thicket]

Gotcha. I'm not really that familiar with either, my experience lies more technical

[silent gyro]

And am sorry, wont happen again, will enqure first

[hearty island]

why am i getting pinged here 💀

did i say something wrong?

[tender thicket]

no. At least, not that I'm aware of

[silent gyro]

no no, some topic we were discussing

[silent gyro]

it was no scamming, provided links there to verify what I was saying

[tender thicket]

It doesnt matter. It takes our time to verify that, and we're not willing to provide that service at this time for free. If you post such things anyway, it's forcing us to do work for you, and we will be understandably unhappy about it.

This channel is for the discussion of python at work, not specific opportunities, etc. I understand you have desires and needs but this is neither the time nor the place for them. If you want to appeal the decision, contact modmail. Do not continue it here.

[silent gyro]

I get your point

[fringe sphinx]

My outsider point of view (and I mean this constructively): it did also look very scammy. Like, it looked more or less the same as the scam/spam donation emails and foreign prince scams I get regularly in my inbox. [This is irrespective of everything else the mods are saying... just letting you know my initial reaction]

[silent gyro]

The reason like even provided the paypal email instead of the link to paypal.me is because paypal.me is not supported in Kenya, in Kenya we dont have a crowdfunding platform like kickstarter that can allow people across the world to support your vision, I understood that thats why I share the link to the startups Linkedin profile which is linked to my Linkedin profile because I also knew people will take it that way, I also could have taken it as a spam was it sent by someone else but its good to check

[buoyant seal]

• Make project public and of real value to be useful (many downloads / stars / forks), and viewable at Github/Gitlab
• Get donation section at Github/Gitlab README documentation of your project.
• Write articles about project to increase awareness about it to different tech journals/news places
• make it easy SEO findable. (Hashtags / Art of SEO book)

This is more appropriate path than sending spam to public programming communities.
it is less intrusive.

[silent gyro]

what spam message are you talking about?I'm just wondering

[buoyant seal]

your first msg that was deleted

[silent gyro]

did you even look at the links I shared because you are saying I could have shared articles?

[buoyant seal]

• sending articles to here with donating request is a spam. / or even just sending your own articles to here
• writing and sending article to tech journals / tech news places is appropriate and intended place for them
  • that is probably because tech journals are better regulated, and people can unsubscribe from then if they don't want receiving spam
    • any emailing service is strictly regulated today, and i think obligatedly enforced to have unsubscribe buttons
    • and emailing ports are by default blocked at cloud provider servers
  • (at some point any news can be a spam)

[silent gyro]

you seem ruffled man, calm down,, I got your point

[silent gyro]

THanks for this advice by the way, am totally grateful, and I will do this

[hearty island]

damnn crazy how even after my capm i still can't get into jpm chase 😦

[buoyant seal]

I think even backend dev can build portfolio very easily.

1. just some simple site generator (short about / CV / projects)
2. links to github projects and their documentation / openapi requestable stuff and etc

yeah, there is additional challenge with less visual stuff, but that where good documentation matters.
keeping clean repositories / versioning / documentation is important and showcaseable too

quite easily to answer
You have two resume, equal in skills and work experience devs.
Who would you choose? Then one which cared to do projects and preesnted them, or the one without them?

projects and their presentation are additional points to sell yourself better

University degree + Project / Portfolio + Work experience = recipe for increased resume value

(see that i don't even mention certificates, they have in general bad stigma nowdays.
Exception to AWS / kubernetes / infra certifications)

[fringe sphinx]

I think you're taking "portfolio" literally (a visual thing)... when we mean it more like: "projects you can show"

[buoyant seal]

backend answer to making portfolio: Don't make your own layout 😆
Use web site generators / stuff that already made themes
mine is going be in Hugo probably https://github.com/gohugoio/hugo
https://themes.gohugo.io/ they have already all the types of themes ready to use

there are python two known solutions

• Sphinx
• Mkdocs (quite simple and nice to use)

[fringe sphinx]

I don't even think a portfolio website is important. Just list the projects / githubs in your resume and be done with it.

(they almost always look terrible anyway, imo... except for graphic designers)

[buoyant seal]

sure, it is not really important to have portfolio. but if person is for some reason on the path of being enterpreneur way of present himself, better perhaps doing that
(I have literally requirement to pass some checks if i am having opened enterpreneurship company)

[buoyant seal]

I like Terminal theme at Hugo 😉 looks cool to try
https://themes.gohugo.io/ interesting themes in general

[fringe sphinx]

Oh that is indeed pretty nice.

[buoyant seal]

there are many cool themes. just a matter of finding good enough site generator with nice choices regarding them
https://themes.gohugo.io/themes/compose/

[soft furnace]

Hey ya'll, I'm not very active in here but I'm hoping someone in here is willing to help me get an idea of what I need to do.

I've been working as a helpdesk tech for over 4 years, and the last year and a half I've been trying to learn to code. I know that this is what I want to do as a career and I find much more passion and motivation to do any scripting when I have the chance.

Although it isn't encouraged in my current job and often I'm told not to waste time on it. I'm hoping somebody can mentor me or help me understand what I need to do to really start building my way into a career, I want to be able to do something I enjoy that has far more opportunities to be at home with my son.

If anyone here is willing to reach out it'd be greatly appreciated.

[spare bane]

not saying im the right guy to talk to about a career at all, but depending on your coding skill level im happy to talk to you about what i found to be helpful while learning to code

[soft furnace]

really the only trouble I have while learning is making the time. I was promoted to "senior" technician which really only meant larger work load and more stress lol. I'd at least say I've gotten to an intermediate level. I completed that course in Codeacademy and I just started doing stuff in python after that.

[spare bane]

yeah no honestly the start is the hardest part by far

[soft furnace]

It's more just like I know stuff now but what do I do with the stuff and what do I not know that I need to learn lol.

[spare bane]

yeah look biggest thing i would say is to just find a way to mix it into your daily life

some people use python scripts to automate things they cant be bothered to do manually, others substitute a crossword for code golf

its all about refining your coding style and techniques and every so often putting it to use in developing a bigger project, maybe a small web app or something

[soft furnace]

I automated a work thing that took me like 2 hours to do manually by making a script do it for me, I also have a discord bot that I built in python that does some cool stuff and uses a database to store things in and that kind of fun stuff. I also spent more time than I'd like to admit on building brick breaker in python, I started with pong but didn't want to do the logic for another paddle that has it's own movement lol.

[fringe sphinx]

Have you seen the resources and kindling links? If not, just message !resources and !kindling. Lots of good stuff there

[spare bane]

^^^ defos check that out, and put together some of the stuff you've made in a folio of sorts

[graceful mason]

this isn't careers related

[pure pagoda]

ahh sorry for that

[dapper bane]

I learned python for doing Data structures and algos and stuff but can I do something with it so I can get a job or maybe freelancing is it possible ?

[deft herald]

What's your background? Any other relevant experience under your belt?

[dapper bane]

no i dont have experience yet i am a fresher

[gritty rivet]

Best way to find out is to apply for jobs, or at least get feedback on your resume

[dapper bane]

can i share my github here so you can see ?

[gritty rivet]

A lot depends on what country you're in, do you have a degree, etc

[deft herald]

does "fresher" mean "freshman" or am I old now

[gritty rivet]

I think it means "recent graduate" in India, see it a lot on here

[deft herald]

ah

[dapper bane]

hey guys can i continue this conversation later i am really sleepy and tired sorry

[deft herald]

Yeah just come back when you're awake and ask again

[zealous path]

Hey, you’re finally awake…

[uncut quest]

I know it's been a while but I just wanted to share I got an offer! Starting next week. Thank you everyone for the interview tips and advice.

[delicate bane]

congrats! best of luck!

[tulip lagoon]

great to hear that! what will be your occupation?

[open cradle]

Congrats 🎉

[uncut quest]

The official title is Data Integration Engineer - should be a lil bit of python, lots of SQL. Super excited to start learning 🙂

[tulip lagoon]

I really wanna work in data field too, I'm trying to improve myself. You did it, congratulations, im very happy for you 🙂

[uncut quest]

Good luck! Wishing the best for you 🙏🙏

[vapid jay]

Hey, I want to learn how to make robots do my work for me with Python. I just learned how to say "Hello World" in Python. Can anyone help me out? 😊

[smoky quest]

Somehow, I am seeing a lot of job hoppers in the pipeline right now. They still all got rejected, but that's more than usual

[buoyant seal]

out of curiosity, what is your threshold for job hopping? 😅

[tulip lagoon]

Hey brotha, yesterday you made me think deeply and I will probably take the university exam again.

[delicate bane]

nice! if you ever want to talk shop about Data Engineering, feel free to ping me in #databases or #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[radiant moon]

hey! that's my password! how'd you know it?!

[smoky quest]

Someone having a new job every 1year or less. That's a definite one.
Beyond that, nothing above or equal 2 years is also a sign

[smoky quest]

Congrats!

[deft herald]

Beyond that, nothing below 2 years is also a sign
A sign of what?

[smoky quest]

sorry, I meant above 2 years.
And that would be a sign of hopping or problems

[near ocean]

What is the reason people job hop? As long as you keep people engaged, well paid, happy, why would you fear your employees leaving?

[smoky quest]

I don't fear someone leaving. If someone has a history of leaving under 1 year, there is no reason it would be different here

[near ocean]

People dont leave randomly, they leave cause its better elsewhere, maybe theres some need for introspection on both sides

[smoky quest]

Exactly. If someone leaves multiple times in a row under one year, the problem is them

[near ocean]

Your workplace isnt perfect, if you think a candidate would treat you the same as they did their other small tenures then youre just as bad

[smoky quest]

How so? Sounds like reading way too much into tea leaves

[near ocean]

Because you're not better than other places obviously, if someone wouldnt even stay with you for a year

I dont see why its a red flag for the candidate and not the workplaces

[smoky quest]

Because it takes an incredible amount of bad luck to run into terrible work places multiple times in a row

[near ocean]

Theres a lot of shitty employers

[smoky quest]

Then it says a lot about someone picking multiple times in a row shitty employers

[near ocean]

🤷 if you think a candidate would treat you the same maybe youre not so different

[smoky quest]

how does that relate to treating me the same?

[near ocean]

You (the employer) thinking a candidate that leaves bad workplaces would do the same for you and so you pass on them instead of evaluating what you do that might cause turnover

Maybe theyre not even bad workplaces, maybe theyre desirable and so can pick and choose with such privilege

[smoky quest]

That's the point: there are no 5 bad places in a row.
If you change job early once, it doesn't matter. If you change job multiple times in a row, the problem is you

[near ocean]

Why is that, assuming theyre on an upward trend which is most likely, it would imply theyre better than what their current situation treats them

It sounds like a boomerism to put the blame on the candidate

[smoky quest]

There is no reason to assume they are on an upward trend. People get pushed out all the time, be it for behavior or performance.
I would find it stupid to have the arrogance to assume that my place is so great that someone will be happy after not being happy so many times in a row

[smoky quest]

How so?

[graceful mason]

There are also people who job hop just because they like to - maybe they get bored after a year or two or want to see if they'll get a higher salary. There shouldn't be any surprise if a company doesn't want to hire that kind of person 🤷‍♂️

[smoky quest]

Indeed. It speaks volume about the candidate.
And there is time and effort spent to hire someone and then train them.

If someone has established a pattern, be it positive or negative, there is no reason to expect it to change. That would be immature or arrogant to think otherwise

[near ocean]

I guess thats the cheap way out, instead of paying the employee what their value is

[smoky quest]

that's not how compensation work

[graceful mason]

Companies put a lot of effort into trying to figure out which candidates will likely bring the most value to them. Fact is that job hoppers aren't likely to bring as much value

[near ocean]

If other people are willing to pay X for the employee and you wont match it, youre just underpaying your people and of course they would leave

[smoky quest]

That doesn't line up with people being sooo underpaid 5 times in a row.

[near ocean]

Why not

[smoky quest]

And from a career perspective, you cannot claim the gains and knowledge required to grow your career when half the time was spent on ramping up

[vapid jay]

the last few years have been weird. 2-3 job changes from 2019 to today doesn't seem unusual.

[smoky quest]

How would that work to be so under paid 5 times in a row? It still points at a weird candidate

[near ocean]

How do you know someone 5 years at a company spent those 5 years learning and not doing the exact same thing over and over?

[vapid jay]

but when markets are bountiful, you can be more selective.

[smoky quest]

that's irrelevant

[near ocean]

Who mentioned numbers, is it that irrational that people are underpaid?

[vapid jay]

is this just a correlation causation argument? seems reasonable to say: strong correlation between resumes with many short stints and someone who wont stay long

[smoky quest]

That's a non sequitur

[near ocean]

Its a response to this, you say you cant grow knowledge if you keep hopping
How do you know someone not hopping grows their knowledge

My guy you cant just say things are irrelevant or non sequitors like that lol, explain how its not relevant

[smoky quest]

You look at the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

[near ocean]

Cant you do that with a job hopper?

[vapid jay]

if recursive_error is at a big company, big companies want people to take a job and not get a lot of raises and retain for long periods.

[smoky quest]

I can when the arguments have nothing to do with the conversation.

Who mentioned numbers, is it that irrational that people are underpaid?

Yes, there are some people underpaid and there are people fairly paid and people over paid. Whether or not it is rational or not is a different conversation

[smoky quest]

Not at all!
That's not how companies work, large or small

[near ocean]

Its not an argument, you keep mentioning 5 workplaces like its commonplace to hop 5 times a year or even in two years

[vapid jay]

its my experience that people have gotten bigger raises from job hopping, bigger than they could possibly get from staying at a company. its the sane move for junior engineers who rapidly increase in value in first 5 years.

[smoky quest]

I mean, that's just what I described at the beginning of the conversation: lots of folks who have jumped job every 12months or less

[vapid jay]

fair that some hirers would count that against them, but if theyre good and motivated, perhaps it shows motivation and intelligence.

[near ocean]

I think if someone's successfully making jumps every year then that speaks to their value, adaptability, soft and hard skills more than some imaginary fickle hopping pattern

[vapid jay]

that said, i think big companies tend to prefer the complacent, pliable types who take whatever the company dishes at them.

[smoky quest]

Companies are relying more and more on market data and less on your previous salary.

Beyond that, it doesn't matter how good you are if you are gonna jump anyway right after you completed your training

[smoky quest]

How is it imaginary when they successfully making jumps every year ?

[near ocean]

You think its a weird habit they have, i think its just great negotiation and interview skills among other things

[smoky quest]

That would be taking the wrong lessons from this discussion.
That type of cynical attitude is also not the attitude that will set you up for growth

[vapid jay]

ever run the amazon interview loop? it's setup as an exercise in finding "cogs".

[smoky quest]

and I wish them the best at their future other company. But that's still a terrible career advice and a great way to screw up

[smoky quest]

how so?

[vapid jay]

its a massive grind, to the point where it felt that you had to have no self-pride to put yourself in such a passive position

their bezos worship and leader worship was particularly noticable, very offputting.

[smoky quest]

Grind how?
Aren't their interviews standard comparing to other companies?

[smoky quest]

Do you mean bezos himself or the leadership principles?

[vapid jay]

maybe a bit of both, everyone kept name dropping this executive or that executive or bezos said this etc.

[near ocean]

Sounds like a cult

[smoky quest]

So maybe they like it or are passionate?

[vapid jay]

seemed totally unnecessary - talk about what youre doing and your customers or your go to market or anything else

from a sample size of 1, it felt like they were selecting for more people like themselves. cult-like perhaps. im sure im exaggerating, but didn't like it.

[smoky quest]

yeah that's fair. There are all sorts of cultures. That's also what interviews are for

[balmy spade]

There are degrees of culture shock to. When you aren't used to a company that consistently pushes the patterns it has chosen as successful; the shift can feel quite dramatic.

[smoky quest]

It can even shift over time as the company grows or the leaders/teams change

[balmy spade]

So true. I've been through four CEO changes with my current company now. The direction remains the same but the flavor is very distinct.

[vapid jay]

i think theres a personality type that sticks at large companies... not saying everyone... but there are plenty of people who work on their one box and care not for anything outside their box. and, large companies love these people: you cant hire all A players.

[smoky quest]

that's a lot of CEO

[near ocean]

Wouldn't these people be working government jobs instead

[balmy spade]

I would say that large companies accept these people exist. They would rather someone who challenges the norm and drives momentum forward (to drop buzz words).

[cloud sequoia]

@smoky quest I changed two of my workplaces because I was in a university and had a specific arrangement that I will work no longer than a year with them (from my side).

I have also changed one of my workplaces because the war started after 7 months, and I am planning to change a workplace to go into big tech after 1.5 years. I don't really see anything wrong here and stories can be quite different.

[smoky quest]

it depends.
Sometimes there are small bubbles that behave like startups. But yeah, you cannot hire thousands of people in the top percent

[balmy spade]

Fifth one coming soon ™️ ! The current is just interim.

[vapid jay]

yup, i worked in a big company small team. loved it and would do it again.

[smoky quest]

When there are specific arrangements or situations, it's customary to annotate it (ex: contracting, war).

[cloud sequoia]

So.. I would annotate it next to my workplace? I have never seen anyone do this before.

[smoky quest]

yep, exactly. Next to the workplace.

Without doing so, other recruiters or managers might just discard your resume thinking something is wrong with you

[cloud sequoia]

I am still very confused but your logic is sound here overall. Have you seen any examples of it that you can show?

[smoky quest]

I cannot share people resume. But that's very common, especially if people are contracting or their company got acquired and changed name, etc.

[vapid jay]

just as companies might not hire job hoppers, perhaps people shouldnt go to ceo hopping companies 🙂

[smoky quest]

It helps give color to your life story

[cloud sequoia]

That's a nice advice. Thanks!

[balmy spade]

We'll see what happens in the next 7 days on that for me.

[vapid jay]

will you be the new ceo? congrats.

[balmy spade]

Absolutely not. We'll see if I'm on the cut list for the buy-outs.

I will not take a title of leadership. Hard pass. Haha!

[smoky quest]

not even on the technical leadership side?

[vapid jay]

whats the saying? "Those who do not wish to lead are the best leaders."

[balmy spade]

Nope. Passed on many of them. I lead my teams. I do not want the title.

[smoky quest]

why not? if you are gonna get the blame, might as well get the title

[vapid jay]

probably all title and no $$

[smoky quest]

then they can job hop with the title!

[balmy spade]

It's not about the blame, or the money. It's about what lights my fire, fuels my curiosity, and keeps me moving. Put me in a titled role of leadership and all my focus changes. The tracks feel wrong. I lose speed and the ability to shift. The job grows dull and so do my wits.

[vapid jay]

watch out for peter principle

[smoky quest]

wouldn't it be technically the same responsibilities?

[vapid jay]

i felt dumber after leading a team. all meetings... offsites... stupid sht

[balmy spade]

It isn't though. It should be. But it's not. Probably entirely in my head.

[smoky quest]

something worth digging with your manager eventually

[balmy spade]

Interesting. I feel... empowered. So much raw talent and they, for whatever crazed reason, expect me to point them in the right direction. Humbling, really.

[vapid jay]

it was more of a director role... and had capable leads... so it ended up being all managing up and little managing down

i think it was more a sacrificial 'somebody has to do it' job

[balmy spade]

I'm not sure I can accept that was the only reality to have. My directors, heck my VPs, are in the trenches with us just as often as our direct lead. They are outright nosey! One of them had the audacity to point out a different pattern for content management against what we'd selected for an automation job. Darn them... they were right too!

[vapid jay]

hi

[delicate flax]

what do you think of codeacademy?

[smoky quest]

Comparing to?

[delicate flax]

generaly I mean

is it good? cause ive been using it for the past 2 months

[smoky quest]

It's free so can't complain

[delicate flax]

yeah thats the best part

[worthy palm]

Just finished the sololearn python course. Pretty good for a newbie like myself

[exotic lily]

how's your progress? I want to know since I'm also a beginner

[delicate flax]

I'd say good. Ive learned many things throughout this 2 month period

[worthy palm]

Its ok on mobile. I use it along with other apps

[subtle escarp]

Hello everyone.
I am a senior full stack developer with 12 years+ of experience.
I have mastered wordpress, shopify, javascript, typescript, project management, AWS, python, C#, web applilcation, webflow, web design, mongoDB, react, node, postgresql....etc.
I am looking for a task.

[merry magnet]

doesnt sound like a fun workplace

[bleak spoke]

anyone familiar with Uk job market?

Im nearly 19, beginner at python and want to get a career with it cause its good pay, can I do it self taught with no degree?

[merry magnet]

from whjat i've heard its definitelyh possible, but you need a portfolio

i wonder if your social skills matter more if you go a route like that too

how you sell your choice of path probably makes a difference

[bleak spoke]

I have no idea how I am going to build a portfolio doing this all on my own

[true harness]

that's why people go to school

[bleak spoke]

I dont wanna study computer science though 😩

[gilded valley]

no, it's not really possible.

you should almost certainly go to university or do a degree apprenticeship

[gilded valley]

especially not with this mindset

[bleak spoke]

ok thanks for the reply

[gilded valley]

you are welcome

[true harness]

I think self taught people are already more likely to have worse CS knowledge than CS grads; that attitude is not going to help you

[bleak spoke]

Yh I think its prob too hard for me

is there any benefit having it as a hobby career wise tho

[gilded valley]

it depends what the career is - as a carpenter, not really. As an actuary, yes

[fringe sphinx]

If you are a beginner, and interested in programming, there’s plenty of things to do. It gets ‘easier’ with more practice, with simple projects and the like. We can recommend some projects.

[bleak spoke]

Im using a site called pynative right now

[fringe sphinx]

As a career, software engineering is about constant learning and building a broad foundation. There is a lot to learn. But, there are also adjacent careers in IT, support and sales engineering, QA, etc where moderate programming skills are helpful

[gilded valley]

self teaching with the attitude of "computer science is too hard for me" will almost certainly never lead to a job.

if its just general advice on learning, then it's off topic for the channel

[fringe sphinx]

Yes and perhaps that attitude is also from lack of experience with it. I agree that you’d have to lose that attitude to succeed, and find a growth mindset.

[hearty island]

i heavily endorse the pomodoro technique b/c it works for me. have a feeling that if i did cs all over again i'd be much better off with it.

but that's just one learning technique

[bleak spoke]

yeah its not just cs as well i gotta learn maths too

[hearty island]

project management 🙂

[bleak spoke]

idk if the starting point is too far behind now

[fringe sphinx]

My guy, you’re 19. :shakes head in old man:

[gilded valley]

low effort questions suck up oxygen and knock high effort, difficult to answer, questions (like braindead_monke's) out of scope

high effort answers to them exacerbate that effect and make the channel worse for everyone

[fringe sphinx]

I assume behind every ‘low effort’ question there’s a high effort question wanting to come out.

[gilded valley]

in the meantime, the people already asking high effort questions get punished because the low effort ones take up all the space.

anecdotally, there generally isn't a high effort question, and people have already made up their minds

[pastel thunder]

I hate these recruiters, they forget I had a talk with them and start negotiating like a vegetable seller.

[fringe sphinx]

I hope you at least get a bushel of tomatoes!

[pastel thunder]

i get peanuts

[hearty island]

rejected from the NSA 😦

[pastel thunder]

they didnt deserve you.

[hearty island]

😦

[radiant moon]

did you go through a security interview?

[strong meteor]

hi guys, so im looking for jobs and i wanted to know some of the resources/sites/strategies that i can apply to land a good job in IT. I've just graduated college (computer engineering course) and i'm looking for roles in web dev as well as python/ds. any advice or suggestion would be highly appreciated :))

[hearty island]

no, i didn't get past the first stage

[ember delta]

@warm cairn

[serene pumice]

Hello 👋 , this might be a very open ended question but anyways... How does an internship work, like what is the process of getting an internship without any prior experience and what do they usually expect from you? Is it just small code refactoring here and there, maybe a bug fix if they feel you are competent or just getting interns familiar with the ecosystem?

[true harness]

internships typically don't require experience; their target audience is students who wouldn't have any. what you might do depends on the company, but yes, a lot of time would be spent training. the goal of internships is so you get trained for cheap, then the company can hire you later

[serene pumice]

Ah ok. Some internships have a selection process right? What do recruiters usually look for in candidates?

[peak halo]

good grades, and a signal that you have interest or potential in the kind of work that they do.

[serene pumice]

what about off-campus internships

[peak halo]

those are the internships that I am referring to.

[serene pumice]

oh ok

thanks for the advice 👍

[serene holly]

hie @spark cobalt ,do you perhaps have a new link for those books

[jolly river]

hi how does a cis degree compare to a cs degree

[hearty island]

what's cis? computer info sys?

[jolly river]

computing and information science

[peak halo]

I've never heard of that. If you have a choice, you should probably get a CS degree, since that's universally recognized.

[gritty rivet]

It's fine if you're sure you're not interested in being a SWE

But we should be careful generalizing based on the name of a program. A lot depends on everything else.

A good way to evaluate whatever specific degree programs you're comparing is by looking at alum profiles and their outcomes on LinkedIn

[true harness]

the general distinction is that CS will have more math, CIS more "practical" things

[unreal turtle]

When cold emailing a recruiter, should I include the team im interested in working for?

[smoky quest]

that would help.
I would also expect questions about why you weren't using the careers page on their website. They may also redirect you there

[unreal turtle]

What if I tell you, the application hasn’t came out yet?

And the recruiter also told me to reach out before the application comes out? What would you say now?

[fast bison]

can someone tell me the difference between all these and which one will most likely land me a job as a software engineer : information science, information technology, information system,and computing and information science Thank you

[buoyant seal]

Try to open your university website and to download discipline/study plan differences between them 😉

[little dove]

@fast bison https://www.cyberseek.org/pathway.html try this if you are lost

[junior marsh]

thats one of my favorte things

[little dove]

I find it helpful too

[junior marsh]

what languages do i need to learn for CyberSecurity

[little dove]

Im staring with a compiling and scripting, so python first then c++ prolly next,

I am also interested in TLA+ I believe it is, one sec need to verify

[junior marsh]

im currently learning python

[little dove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkZzg7Vowao

A

[summer roost]

Then it seems like you have more specific knowledge of the situation that might trump typical career advice.

[little dove]

Same, failed last class, retaking it now. doing better than last time cause Ive had time to read and learn more, will see how I do in the next few weeks, how are you doing? taking classes? or self taught

[junior marsh]

im currently watching this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWRfhZUzrAc&t=3977s

[fringe sphinx]

Anything with ‘information’ in the title is generally geared for IT and MIS roles, one

[junior marsh]

which is teaching me every basics stuff about python. its about 4h and im in on 1h.. i find out that im able to understand codes now when i read them.

there is another video for intermidiate

[little dove]

@junior marshyea thats good, theres tons of resources online, https://www.w3schools.com/python/, https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Non-Programmer's_Tutorial_for_Python_3 too

I think the best way to learn languages is to basically submerse yourself into them, the culture, history, every day learn and practice,

[smoky quest]

Then either you have insider information or they would wait to have the application out

[unreal turtle]

how do i have insider information?

[smoky quest]

You have to understand that recruiters and managers are dealing with thousands of candidates.
So they will want to deal with them like cattle, not snowflakes on their own email chain. To that end, they have strong incentives to align every candidate in the ATS and the pipeline dedicated to that job.

If the job is not published yet, it also means the HM is unlikely to be ready

[smoky quest]

You said it yourself: you know the recruiter working at that company and they told you to email them

[fringe sphinx]

If recruiter suggested it, see no downside. Totally reasonable.

[unreal turtle]

what are you tryning to say?

[unreal turtle]

yeah cause i was in the process in the past

[smoky quest]

I am describing the process in general

[unreal turtle]

keep in mind this recruiter has been ingorning me for 2 months now

[smoky quest]

oh. Then I wouldn't over think it.
Still send your info since they are asking about it. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it

[fervent grove]

hello y'all does one know what big companies tend to ask in a first interview or if it really is just a general chat

[vapid jay]

first interview tends to be pretty technical ime

[open cradle]

It just depends. All the ones I have done were purely HR related. Technical were second or third ones

[fervent grove]

even tho its a HR person?

[vapid jay]

oh if hr, general chat. be prepared for the slary expectations question

[open cradle]

If you want to get specific questions, in Glassdoor you can see the questions that each company usually do

[fervent grove]

u got an idea what they might ask for DS entry level?

[vapid jay]

dc?

[fervent grove]

1mio kappa

[open cradle]

I have no idea what's DC sorry hahaha

[deft herald]

DS?

[fervent grove]

Data Science

[vapid jay]

who knows what theyll ask. know what you know.

[fervent grove]

mhh for junior/entry i really got no clue what their expectations are

[vapid jay]

be prepared to talk about anything on your resume, at least.

[open cradle]

If you want to prepare an interview, you have limited resources and time to cover stuff you might not know. So saying "who knows" just makes your preparation much worse and less efficient imo

[deft herald]

You'd be best suited to read over the job description. Guarantee any technical questions they ask will have something to do with the topics listed there

[open cradle]

For junior or entry positions they already know that you do not know many details. So they usually tend to focus on:

1. Ensuring you know the basics
2. Soft skills (communication, motivation... etc)

[vapid jay]

i said know what you know. or as the great one said - dont panic

[fervent grove]

exactly my guess i mean im not a full newbie but SQL or so are blank pages for me but for the daily workflow most DS would only use it to gather data i guess

[fervent grove]

i dont panic but want to make a good impression (communication is none of my concerns tbh)

its the good old impostor syndrome

[vapid jay]

jus remember hr are the useless part of a company. necessary but ultimately useless

[open cradle]

I misunderstood then. Not used to these types of expressions sorry 🙂

[fervent grove]

still put a good face on the bad game 🗿

[vapid jay]

yah, they can say no but they cant say yes

[fervent grove]

hate it when ppl got power over me hahahaha

[open cradle]

I would like helping more but DS is not even my field so I can only say these generic recommendations. But there might be many websites that gather these type of Data Science questions for an entry level job that will help you to build up more confidence

[fervent grove]

i guess statistic, coding and machine learning but what i dunno maybe super basic stuff like pandas and numpy

well thanks for ur suggestions @deft herald , @open cradle and @vapid jay

[deft herald]

super basic stuff

pandas, numpy

😄

[fringe sphinx]

When I interview, I ask about their specific experience and what they should know based on the resume. If you have a project, I’ll ask detailed questions about the project

I wouldn’t ask unrelated questions about the field or things not on the resume.

[fervent grove]

this is exactly what it said in the description 😛

[fervent grove]

i mean i could show some code i write in my free time for automation or kaggle competitions

cause my Masters topic was kinda exotic so that even in the DS department only few ppl could catch it

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, be prepared to geek out on that. I’d totally ask about a master thesis.

[tame dagger]

Is there anything a hs student can do over the summer to help their resume

[fervent grove]

i would love to but i would be forced to keep it basic due to nda

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? A confidential thesis?

[pine sleet]

Work on some cool personal projects or contribute to open source

[fervent grove]

yep

[tame dagger]

I have a good idea for one it’s just gonna take a while … and gonna be difficult

[fringe sphinx]

How is that possible? Never heard of such a thing

[pine sleet]

If you make it happen I'm sure it would look impressive on a resume

[fervent grove]

only prof, mentor and company given access for i guess 2 years

[tame dagger]

Just something to pick fruits out of my tree

[fringe sphinx]

Weird, usually thesis and dissertations are public works

[fervent grove]

well i was employed by the company and was able to write the thesis on that

[smoky quest]

you can most likely abstract out the NDA parts from the non-nda parts

[fervent grove]

im super insecure what im allowed to tell and wwhat not tbh hahaha

[smoky quest]

Then, as an interviewer, I will assume BS on anything someone is claiming and not able to expand on in some way

[fringe sphinx]

That’s tough because yah, what re just said

[smoky quest]

You may want work on how to approach that then, because otherwise you might just as well remove it from your resume

[fringe sphinx]

I would hope that you can talk about the methods and procedures, but not the data and findings

[fervent grove]

just read it again it seems to be just data im not allowed to talk about

so methods procedure are ok i guess findings and results are not

so i can geek out hard af 👓

[unreal turtle]

when cold emailing, is it recommended to follow up with the recruiter if he/she didnt respond yet?

[hollow hull]

no

[unreal turtle]

y

[smoky quest]

fyi you may want to stop calling it cold emailing since the recruiter asked you to send an email to them

[hollow hull]

Well yeah that’s not a cold email then

[unreal turtle]

i also emailed other recruiters as well

[hollow hull]

Then ofc you can send a follow up

[fervent grove]

or give him/her a call

[unreal turtle]

chatgpt said i should though

[hollow hull]

^

[unreal turtle]

so whyd u say no then?

[hollow hull]

Cuz you called it a cold email when it’s not

[unreal turtle]

how can i find the recruiters number? would you recommend that? is that considered rude?

[unreal turtle]

it is for some of the recruiters i emailed though

[fervent grove]

if it is in the footer of his email - go for it

[unreal turtle]

@fervent grove someone also recommended this technique, but idk if this is serving to replace the follow up method though. is it?

[hollow hull]

Follow up with the same recruiter first and if they don’t respond just mention to another recruiter that you began the process with recruiter X earlier

[fervent grove]

some companies wont allow emails send to individuals so maybe they never rechieved ur email in the first place

[unreal turtle]

wdym by footer?

[unreal turtle]

a new recruiter i havent messaged before?

[fervent grove]

company information e.g. name phone adress etc,.
u mentioned some have mailed u so in that mail

[unreal turtle]

well the one i was in the process with last year, before she ghosted me we were exchanging emails back and forth pretty frequently so

[hollow hull]

If they specifically asked you to ping and they don’t respond after a follow up yeah

[unreal turtle]

ok ill check, hopefully its there

[unreal turtle]

who is "they"?

[fervent grove]

HumanResources

[unreal turtle]

can you answer my other questions? would you recommend that? is that considered rude?

[fervent grove]

why would it be rude if u ask polite?

are u trolling rn?

[unreal turtle]

would calling a recruiter, replace following up with the recruiter if she didnt respond?

[unreal turtle]

from the same company?

[fervent grove]

u can discuss that with the recruiter what the next steps should be

[unreal turtle]

in the call or in the email? which is more effective?

[hollow hull]

Ce n’est pas très compliqué

[fervent grove]

if u call until u reach someone by phone guess what gives u an immediate response and email or a phonecall?

[hollow hull]

It’s not that complicated, you aren’t going to get blacklisted

[unreal turtle]

phone

[fervent grove]

theres ur answer

[unreal turtle]

would it be more effective to cold email that recruiter instead then? since shes from the same company instead of messaging a new one about starting the process with the prior recruiter?

or i should message her about starting the process with the prior recruiter?

[hollow hull]

Imma kms atp

[unreal turtle]

chill i just wanna know

[fervent grove]

bratwurst

[unreal turtle]

or should i do both?

@hollow hull @fervent grove

[fervent grove]

we gave u everything already just read carefully

[unreal turtle]

you didnt answer the question bruh

[unreal turtle]

so i should email hr first, if they dont respond and the old recruiter after follow up. i should message new recruiter?

[fervent grove]

last attempt:

1. check the email u rechieved for phone number
2. try to reach the person which contacted u but dont terrorise them via phone try once a day until u get in touch
3. when no info or u cant reach someone call the HR directly and ask how to moveforward
4. after getting instructions follow em

[unreal turtle]

if hr doesnt respond contact new recruiter i havent messaged before?

[fervent grove]

when u call HR directly u will be able to talk to someone so no

[unreal turtle]

oh ok idek

[fervent grove]

it appears to me u spamm those poor ppl frequently lel

[unreal turtle]

when i call hr, should i complain that my old recruiter have been ghosting me for 2 months?

[fervent grove]

if u want to make a "good" first impression sure go ahead

[unreal turtle]

i promise i dont bro, i follow up in a very timely manner

[unreal turtle]

what would you recommend?

[fervent grove]

it is what it is
leave it be

[unreal turtle]

also btw this company is google

[fervent grove]

if u apply to google and dont know what HR is i doubt u getting far

[unreal turtle]

dude chill out ive been working hard for a while, dont say negative shit

[fervent grove]

its my first impression of u - not beeing rude or anything

[unreal turtle]

well my first impression of you is that youre an impatient asshole tbh

[fervent grove]

so i took ~30mins of my free time to help u and u insult me cool

[unreal turtle]

just cause i dont know what hr is doesnt mean i wont get the job, so that means ill just fail the interview if idk what that is?

[smoky quest]

Let's stop the name calling there

[unreal turtle]

well you said this, which really hurted me

tell him to stop saying negative shit towards me, it could turn out as true

[fervent grove]

i wish u all the best for ur application but try to read and listen more carefully when applying for a job or listening to ppl @unreal turtle

[unreal turtle]

ty

[zenith geyser]

does anyone here hire data engineers? how much of the tech stack should i know?

[lapis wind]

Not a hirer, but is a data engineer, a lot of SQL.

With our particular setup it's a lot of Python and Scala (Apache Spark) in combination with Aws Athena and redshift.

Not a bad idea to also know the Google stack side of things though like Bigquery, but just being really good at SQL will definitely make your life easier in general.

Idk about other companies but knowing Apache airflow for building pipelines is also very useful

[zenith geyser]

So will recruiters are more willing to overlook missing skills if my SQL (and python) is really good?

[lapis wind]

I mean that really depends on the job requirements and what those 'missing skills' actually are

But knowing SQL, Python and probably a bit of scala and spark would definitely put you on fairly solid footing

[sick remnant]

Hi, recently I learnt that I want to become a coder (I think that's what you call it) but I don't know what type I should become, can anyone help me?

[peak halo]

You might read a list of different types of coder/programmer/developer and see if there's one that interests you, and which is in demand where you live

[zenith geyser]

I always see these pesky 2-5 years experience requirements on data engineering job descriptions. Assuming I have 1 really good project that should be sufficient to cast away any doubt assuming my sql, python and 1 cloud service skill is also good right? Are there actually recruiters that insist on that many years of experience?

[peak halo]

Do you have a degree? What jobs, if any, have you worked?

[zenith geyser]

i have a degree in economics and i have 0 professional coding experience. I work in a bank advising clients

funny story i actually wanted to do data science but codesmith booted me from the program since I didnt have a masters degree, so i took up a data engineering course instead

[peak halo]

Getting a master's degree in CS would be the most straightforward path to victory here. Short of that, you might get a post bachelor certificate in CS, but I'm not sure what you'd need to do to tailor that to position you for data engineering.

[dense furnace]

Feel like there's a lot of positions that require high number of years experience, and on a lot of (sometimes random) skill sets/libraries. and a lot of requests for "Senior" level, as a mid level guy makes me feel like I've missed the boat heh

I think what they're really looking for is someone that knows what their doing but cant quantify that in any other way

[zenith geyser]

i will only consider a masters in CS if i land a data engineering job

i hate how universities insist on filler courses. wasted so much time and money

[true harness]

masters are much more focused.

[peak halo]

🤷‍♂️ one can't guarantee the outcomes in advance. but a masters degree won't have general education requirements.

[fringe sphinx]

My experience was not much filler courses for masters, unlike undergrad

[smoky quest]

I am hiring data engineers, and right now, most of the candidates have a CS masters degrees. So I would have no reason to call you back

I am too lazy to check, but I am pretty sure all of the folks, that we are interviewing in the current batch, do have a masters

[balmy spade]

Is that situational to the candidate pool, your company, or the position being filled?

[smoky quest]

it's situational to the candidates applying to the position being filled at my company

[balmy spade]

You've suggested that you aren't considering a candidate with a lower educational bar than masters. Is that an incorrect read from your statement?

[smoky quest]

The point I am trying to make is that I am not excluding them. It's just the situation for data engineering is such that the pool of candidates is very rich with highly educated and motivated engineers. And as such, people with a lower educational background have a hard time to rise to the top.
The situation would be different in other areas such as frontend for instance.

[summer roost]

it isn't "people without MS degrees won't be considered", it's "the best of the available candidates all have MS degrees"

[balmy spade]

I'm not sure I can latch onto the assumption that rich, educated, and motivate are linked attributes. I was curious why the education was set to the bar it is. It's one of many factors and, while it is certainly important for experience, it's not the strongest tell of the candidate in my opinion.

[smoky quest]

the pool is rich -> there are thousands of applicants to that one job
the pool is rich with highly educated -> Out of these thousands of applicants, TONS of them have masters
the pool is rich with motivated engineers -> People with degrees can also be motivated and with great projects 😉 It's a false dichotomy we see sometimes here where people oppose motivated but without degree to people with degree but not motivated

[balmy spade]

Ah, my mind found the wrong conotation of rich here. That brings things a little more into focus.

[smoky quest]

So it's not that the degree is the bar. It's just the candidate pool is that competitive

[balmy spade]

Do you have methods of gauging motivation from the pool alone, without the initial interview?

[summer roost]

you have to have some way of intuiting that. You can't interview everyone, there's just too many candidates...

[smoky quest]

You could get a sense by looking at the projects (is it a basic youtube project or something more advanced or that they dug into), education (sometimes changing degrees or not having a degree can be part of the story for the motivation), how is the resume itself, if they have too many certs, etc.

[balmy spade]

That's strongly in sync with what I expected. Whew! :) It also clears a little of my curiosity toward the canidate pool filtering. I appreciate the insight.

[smoky quest]

to be clear, if tomorrow I see a candidate without a degree but with a resume that sweats passion and expertise, I would call them back right away.
But the bar would be higher for DE than other roles given how competitive it can be

[balmy spade]

I didn't think you were blinding yourself and wouldn't try suggesting that. I'm aware that my own experience and path is well toward the edge cases. It makes me endlessly curious what goes on inside "the norm" of things.

[summer roost]

different interviewers and different hiring managers will weigh different criteria as being more or less important, but the hiring managers/interviewers are all trying to get the best candidate for the job (where "best" is subjective, of course). There are very few hiring managers who will say "all people with MS degrees are better candidates than any people without MS degrees", but there are a lot who would say "the average MS degree holder is a better candidate than the average BS degree holder"

[balmy spade]

The only way I'd, personally, expect to get an interview in that type of environment is if I shook hands with the person who was doing the interviewing and piqued their interest. I might be able to weave a resume good enough to compete with that level of richness in a pool but I wouldn't stake a callback on it.

[balmy spade]

When faced with an overwhelmingly sized selection, it's a careful game of averages until the remaining is manageable.

[summer roost]

that's a good way of putting it, yeah. There aren't a lot of absolutes, but there's a lot of heuristics that can be used to whittle down the candidate pool to a manageable subset with a high chance of still having a great candidate in it

[balmy spade]

To be brutally honest, I want to understand because of a heavy case of impostor syndrome. I look at how things are today from the outside and think "There's no way I belong where I am. I should be back in retail."
Getting to ask questions, or just lurk, here helps me combat that. One step at a time.

[summer roost]

🤷‍♂️ Do your coworkers tell you that you do good work?

Or, more generally, that they enjoy working with you?

[balmy spade]

Of course. I'm supported more than I feel I deserve. Certainly far more than any of my retail experiences combined. haha

It doesn't quell the beast in my head that wants to darken the room and smother the mood. The only retaliation against that part of me that I've found is hard, cold logic.

[summer roost]

I'd suggest trying to listen and empathize when people are telling you that they value having you on the team. There's pretty good odds they're not lying to you, and really do like working with you - which is a pretty clear indication that you do belong.

[zenith geyser]

Even if someone has a masters degree, but only has 40% of the tech stack would they be preferable over someone with no degree but has at least 75% of the tech stack? I heard there are many people with masters degree getting rejected if all they have is a degree.

[summer roost]

individual hiring managers might make different calls on that. Some might say that the candidate with the masters has a more proven ability to learn, and that it shouldn't be a problem for them to learn the rest of the stack once they're hired. Some might say that the candidate who knows more of the technologies in use is more likely to be able to quickly get up to speed.

Either way, it's most likely a false dichotomy. There's no reason to assume there won't be candidates with a masters degree who are well versed in the tech stack

[balmy spade]

My team uses the phrase "You don't know [piece of tech stack]? Good, none of your bad habits will conflict with our bad habits!" ((it's generally assumed someone can learn, and wants to learn, new things where I work))

[zenith geyser]

I dont have a masters, but is a master really that much harder than a bachelors? I figure if someone is smart enough to pass linear algebra 101 and intermediate calculus they should be smart enough to get masters if they work hard enough.

[summer roost]

it's not about how smart they are, it's about their depth and breadth of knowledge. Someone with a masters has deeper knowledge in some specific area, and if the job needs skills in that area, that depth of knowledge is a useful well to draw from. Most people aren't good at self-studying things to the level of depth that a masters degree would reach without a curriculum and pressure (let alone a few years to work on it)

it's not that it's impossible to do, it just would be less common.

[smoky quest]

The more prepared, the more plausible.
One thing most people are missing is that by the time I get to your resume, I have seen 50 people with a masters. So your projects have to be on the level to compare with a masters thesis. And it becomes more about expectations the projects have to meet rather than whether or not the candidate can achieve that on their own.

[smoky quest]

It's not about filtering for being smart. You do get to dive deeper into topics for a few years more, and that matters in terms of expertise, skills and abstract thinking

[smoky quest]

It's not like people with a degree live in a cave.
They will have projects and passion.

Think about how someone could be passionate about a subject without a degree. Now think about that same person if in addition to their passion, they got to spend 4 years having fun studying that degree full time in an environment full of people like them?

@zenith geyser your problem is that these people are your competition

[smoky quest]

It doesn't mean we should be snobs about degrees either.
Degrees are the path of least resistance and studying something full time in your prime in a learning environment does have an impact after all, but it doesn't mean there aren't other path.
It also doesn't mean you cannot learn the same in some other ways.

In these cases, I suggest to write down your list of fears and worries. You will end up with two broad categories:

• The unreasonable fears -> writing them down will help you realize it's just fear and may help move a bit past that
• The reasonable fears -> Great! You now have a list of tangible items to address. And addressing them will help resolve these fears

[zenith geyser]

But for data engineering specifically I know the tech stack is not commonly taught. Assuming i have 70% of the tech stack and 1 high quality related project that should still put me ahead of 90% of the candidates. and of those candidates many will receive job offers elsewhere as well.

[smoky quest]

That's not how it works. These are different levels.
It's like you are comparing data engineering with knowing how to build space ships, and you are bragging about the tech stack which maps to being able to use a screw driver.
Every candidate has the tech stack and can learn it in a day

[smoky quest]

also fyi, the snobbishness happens at all levels.
It's always funny when people introduce themselves based on who was their famous teacher at their famous school

[zenith geyser]

im not sure how the hiring process work for software engineers. I know technical interviews are a big deal. I don't know how much of the requirements they actually test you on.

[fringe sphinx]

I rarely talk to a (junior/entry) candidate who really “knows” any of the skills they list. Its more like they have passing familiarity, not enough to engage in a detailed conversation about the ins and outs of that tech.

[smoky quest]

There will be all sorts of questions:

• behavioral
• Experienced based. Ex: "tell me about how you went about solving problem X at your past company"
• Technical like leetcode or discussing concepts
• Projects based

[fringe sphinx]

So, in terms of having the tech stack; I’m somewhat doubtful someone can self teach to an intermediate level any of the stuff we use (without true job experience)

[smoky quest]

it's rare, but contributing to actual projects (ex: wikipedia, archive.org, etc.) can help.
But rare are the projects to be mature enough to require the services of a DE

[fringe sphinx]

Lots of people list sql on their resume, yet can’t solve basic query questions or data modeling

Nevermind anything more advanced.

[zenith geyser]

do you do hiring? Do you interview lots of "time wasters"?

[fringe sphinx]

Me? Yes. What’s a time waster? I do get candidates who I know in minutes that I won’t hire, even after screening.

[summer roost]

"time waster" is a strange way to think about it. "Time waster" sounds malicious. The candidates who don't make the cut weren't deliberately trying to waste anyone's time, they were just trying to get a job.

[fringe sphinx]

I do get a lot of time waster resumes tho… people applying for jobs without qualification, zero coding experience, etc.

In this case, I do mean if negatively: applying for jobs with zero coverage of any of the requirements

(I don’t use that term myself, but it’s just annoying)

[summer roost]

Yeah, that's annoying. And I mean, I'll get annoyed if I feel like a candidate has lied to me, or deliberately misrepresented their skill level, beyond the normal practice of painting yourself in a good light in your resume. But it's rare for me to feel that someone who made it past an initial screening wasted my time. They're mostly gonna be people who have some skills, who looked good at first glance, and who couldn't stand up to closer and more detailed inspection. By and large that's not their fault.

[zenith geyser]

what percentage of the candidates are minimally qualified to do the job or have the capacity to learn in a short amount of time? then of those candidates what percentage are ideal and have the skills your looking for? then of those candidates who accept the job offer? i assume from the recent layoffs its a lot tougher now than it was 1 year ago.

[smoky quest]

you should read the first chapter of the book "algorithms to live by" about the stopping problem. It's a very entertaining book and chapter

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t have a lot of samples from this year. We only restarted hiring recently. And that’s a lot of conditions you’re asking about. Historically (2015-2019ish) in small tech, we saw a lot of weak candidates and we had to weed through them to find the diamond in the rough. Nobody was ideal, but had a pretty good retention rate. Most accepted offers.

[smoky quest]

It describes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem

[fringe sphinx]

I feel like that’s somewhat a confirmation of the hire fast/fire fast philosophy

[vapid jay]

ive been seing and uses tuns of programs that literally do the job on data analyst, is the job screwed

[delicate bane]

interesting book. adding it to the list

[rocky vault]

Hello, i have two questions. i wanted to ask if the level of the college degree in CS actually matters in getting a job as opposed to having good experience and potential and ability. My other question is whats a good company to start off my CS career? preferably a small company where i could get an internship or a low-level job so i could eventually move on to bigger jobs. Thanks

[buoyant seal]

CS degree serves often enough as a first screening filter / and measure of a potential/ability for a person for acquired good experience being applied towards becoming past Junior level in a reasonable time (within 2-4 years)

[true harness]

it's sort of a false dichotomy. most people aren't able to get good experience without a degree first

[somber holly]

How do i become a medior developer?
I have around 2 years of experience and have worked as a python developer, now data scientist.
I want to take myself to a higher level, but every tutorial i have ever looked at are more focused on beginner levels, any data science course that i take covers basic data manipulation, plotting, basic ml. But after doing some of these they feel all the same. How could I improve myself?
I m working on my own project too but it is more algoritmic, ai strategy implementation.

[buoyant seal]

Reading certain books and applying them at practice in work and pet projects is a good start.

Data scientists are made of Dev and Math side, i can give books and stuff for Dev side

[buoyant seal]

https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/366673702533988363/1079139724825997364 stages 1-2-3 for generic Dev side software engineering skills

[buoyant seal]

Add python fluff for your specifics in addition, like "Clean Code in python" and "Python expert programming"

• first book is nice to go through advanced python sugar syntax fluff and best practices regarding writing more intricate code
• second book covers more obscure python topics like parallelism (difference between multhreading/multiprocessing/async), C/C++ insertions, dev env setup for docker-compose, meta stuff and other stuff

[buoyant seal]

Books are great in terms of, they cover materials for medium and senior levels too 😉 More compressed usually in terms of material too.

Just reading "Code Complete by McConnel" would be really great for your first book

this is all covering book that gives a lot regarding all aspects of dev side. Recommending as first reading

If you could read only single book in entire career, it would be definitely recomended this one for dev side

[hazy cipher]

Guys, I'm making a django program to put on my resume. It registers names, passwords and emails and sends an email to the user to confirm the registration. Then you can log in and change your password if you are logged in. Is it a nice idea to put on the resume?

[buoyant seal]

it would be nice if your program had ANY some real world application/usage first
otherwise i am a bit failing to see the purpose of such program 🤔 too simple one and no purpose. At least one thing should be removed

at least making it a blog site or chat app, or smth

[hazy cipher]

hey, thanks

[somber holly]

Thanks, for the advice, will check ir out

[true harness]

if it's just a login then I agree with darkwind somewhat. but if you've got nothing else, then you might as well

[hazy cipher]

thanks!

[hearty island]

:(((((

goddamnit

well at least i’m getting responses 🙃

[split citrus]

Is it worth to graduate one semester late for an internship?

[gilded valley]

6 months late? probably yes

[delicate bane]

yes. especially if you dont have much work exp/other internship exp

[hearty island]

i am getting another cert boys and girls 🙂, professsional scrum master 1

[split citrus]

Is 1 internship experience enough?

[hearty island]

get as many as you can tbh. but one is good.

[split citrus]

Ok thank you! The internship I have done was an Electrical Engineering internship but I am pursuing a CS degree so im not sure if I messed up taking that internship… so that’s why I was asking if it was worth graduating one semester late for an internship related to my degree.

[old silo]

Does backlog affect hiring process

[split citrus]

I just don’t want to get siloed because of that haha

[hearty island]

nah, dw about it.

[old silo]

I am from India if anyone knows plz ping me

[hearty island]

who the fuck is joel levine

another scammer probably

and how are they finding my resume like wtf

[pastel thunder]

you can re-register, if you pass before placement start, you wont be affected

otherwise backlog itself will hurt your GPA, and you wont even be eligible is numerous companies(for campus placements)

[old silo]

: (, some companies skip the backlog stuff?

@pastel thunder does this same goes for off campus?

[hollow hull]

Seems spammy

[hearty island]

ikr, blocked them immediately

[outer gorge]

I am looking for a Blockchain Developer for Long Term.

[peak halo]

This server isn't for recruitment. Try a proper job board.

[buoyant seal]

Some meme on topic, for people who overchase what full stack means

[radiant moon]

🤷 I'm not an expert, but have some experience with most of those.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I dunno, that's the kind of person we hire. Kinda what I think of when I think senior engineer.

[radiant moon]

I honestly feel like listing all my tech is pointless; the point is that I can figure it out

[graceful mason]

I'm in robotics currently working on something that includes fullstack and have to use all of these (or equivalent tech) daily
EC2/ECS/EKS are mostly handled by other teams though
getting hired wouldn't required experience in all of these - keep in mind that it's a wishlist, and as long as you have experience with some of them you can learn the others on the job

[bright arch]

does anyone know of a Python certification program that's good and gets a respected cert? Possibly even with a focus on data science

[buoyant seal]

such thing does not exist

[buoyant seal]

Data science/Computer science degree on other hand exists

[bright arch]

Forget about the data science part then

[buoyant seal]

Same answer. Certificates have no values, except for infrastructure engineers for AWS/kubernetes and etc certifications from AWS/kubernetes official society and etc

[fringe sphinx]

Depends what your goal is. Adjacent roles like IT, support, project mgmt, qa, sales engineering roles are more likely to place value on certs. SWE doesn’t.

[buoyant seal]

AWS is valued skill for data engineers and python backend developers too 😉 so chasing AWS official certificate from AWS can have value

[bright arch]

My girlfriend works in pharma, they put lots of stock in certifications, trust me

[bright arch]

Project management, mainly. Projects are quite data heavy

[radiant moon]

I used to work for a company that trained people for Cisco networking certificates. Those certificates were clearly extremely valuable to the trainees; and if they're not all stupid or lied-to, presumably somewhat valuable to their potential employers.

[buoyant seal]

it does not work in IT. IT is overflooded with low quality certificates and lost their value long ago.
Degree holding people sufficiently oversaturate market to be not feeling any need in any certificates from shady companies
AWS/kubernetes(Cloud Native Computing Foundation)/Oracle for oracle dbs and etc certificates still hold value though. (and other infrastructure related stuff)

[buoyant seal]

i told already twice that infrastructure certs do have value 😉

[bright arch]

@buoyant seal I'm aware, I work in IT myself

Is there at least a good training program, never mind the certs, for learning programming that uses python?

[buoyant seal]

udemy/coursera as far as i know offers Competetive(among authors) courses with high transparency/reviews/quality and cheap honest market price
(Because real authors compete with each other for their courses being good and sold) (check courses with high score / many reviews and etc)
Or at least udemy does, not sure about coursera exactly

Don't try to get courses from proprietary closed organizations. Totally crap usually in terms of courses, they are made there just to have smth.

[bright arch]

Yeah I figured, hence asking here

Thank you!

[buoyant seal]

u a welcome

[open cradle]

I agree 100%. Not sure why people criticize Udemy so much. I learnt a lot from it when I was an intermediate Python user

At least it is not like the other courses offered in the platform. The kind of : "Learn how to do telephatic attacks" or "Meet your guardian angel"

[delicate bane]

@hearty island might have some advice

[hearty island]

are you in college currently? i haven't read far up the thread

[bright arch]

It is not for me, but my partner is not in college. She has a biochemistry degree and works in pharma, has drifted into project management and wants to learn programming

[hearty island]

oh. well if she’s nearing project management i’d recommend getting some certs.

[bright arch]

Python is pretty prevalent in that industry, so she would like to learn that as her first language

She's already in project management, and has a cert or two for that

[hearty island]

oh well if she’s learning python then this community has plenty of resources for that

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fervent grove]

so interview was pretty basic @deft herald, @open cradle and @vapid jay , however it came out they search 3 jobs in one person how do i best address that to em 😄

[open cradle]

Nice! When you say 3 jobs you mean 1) having skills that are usually required in 3 different jobs or 2) having the responsibility and the working scope that would be typical for more than one job?

[fervent grove]

2 they want backend/frontend devops datascience and severadmin in one person

[open cradle]

And they are looking for this in an entry level position? Lmao

[fervent grove]

yeh fire isnt it?

[open cradle]

Well. If you do not have much responsibility (due to junior thing) maybe it can be seen as a way to learn from different fields

[fervent grove]

probably want to squeeze an innocent soul out to spare some dimes

[fervent grove]

i see it as a great opportunity tbh but their scope should be adjusted

im down and even want to learn new things on the go but i need the time slots for that

[open cradle]

Yeah. Indeed they might be bad conditions. In my case I sacrificed a lot when I was a junior because in my field it was not easy to get a job. Much competence and many professionals

So getting out of the "junior" hole while learning as much as I could was my highest priority

[fervent grove]

feeling u im kinda in the same situation i guess

i mean they asked for SQL and i said didnt work with it now i checked it and its basically pandas with "poor" syntax

i got the feeling they just spammed buzzwords in the job description but have 0 clue at all (its just code ya know lel 🗿 )

for their scope one could easily adress 110k+ i guess and thats not junior at all

[open cradle]

I started with 7k 🗿

[fervent grove]

per year?

[fervent grove]

84k as junior would be a good starting point lele

[open cradle]

Yeah. Ofc not in USA

[fervent grove]

7k a year? might i ask where u from

[open cradle]

Spain. It was 5h work per day

[fervent grove]

while u graduated?

[open cradle]

Yeah. So I cannot ask for much more hahahaha. If you extrapolate that to 8h, it was almost the average salary at that time

[fervent grove]

wild

[harsh river]

spain is that cheap? what's the normal annual salary?

[fervent grove]

i mean im somewhat intermediate not a junior not a senior

[fervent grove]

my exact thoughts

[open cradle]

I think median salary now is around 22k€

But main cities such as Barcelona and Madrid, the average people spend 60-80% of the salary in rent (unless you share flat)

[harsh river]

interesting to know, planning to go there soon

[fervent grove]

housing gotten so expensive all over the gloabe just sad

[open cradle]

I am talking about averages of course. Engineer earn much more. Not sure how much since I never came back to Spain for work.

Cool! Tell me if you like it then 🙂

[fervent grove]

so to my original question should i tell the employer that their scope is a bit too much for one person (even for one senior)

[open cradle]

I do not think I can answer to this. I have no idea about your field or how much it is. Maybe other people with more experience here can help you

[fervent grove]

nethertheless thanks for trying hahaha

[fringe sphinx]

ouch, that hurts. "sql is pandas with poor syntax".

[fervent grove]

more a joke ._. sorry if i offended u

[fringe sphinx]

I was joking too

[fervent grove]

so u with me on that ? 😄

[sterile moat]

Hi guys, how are you today?. I'm not sure if this is the right channel to ask this. So forgive me. I have some doubts and I need guidance and help about how can I request a raise of salary on my job without causing discomfort or misinterpretation...

Currently my contract is indefinite (Here in Chile, Latin America it calls like that the translation is "contrato indefinido"), my position is Jr. Software Engineer. I have almost 10 months working here and If I analyze myself I improved a lot my working , coding, good practices and adding value to all the requirements that they ask me to do, sometimes I made mistakes of course but I fixed that issues vigorously. I have been working a lot with maintaining, updating, adding features to IoT micro services using Python, Go, database management, SQL, MySQL & PostgreSQL, time series data like InfluxDB, Gitflow control and teamwork. But I don't know how or how can I predict if they would raise my salary because I really need it... someone knows the right "techniques" or strategies to force that salary raise without too much talk or analysis of my case?. Please help me or guide me. Thank you.

[buoyant seal]

There is a very precise way to check your current market value.
Just going to interviews and securing different offers

Once u measured your current selling price.
Then just gaining confience that you deserve a better salary (according to offers u was able to secure) and asking for it / proceeding with performance review or whatever they have for it
If they say no => you have option just to take offer u have and seek working in another company 😅

[smoky quest]

you could start by asking when is the performance review cycle at your company

[buoyant seal]

Well, that too, start from performance review. It will be more simple path than going interviews.

Leave interviews as last resort for later. They are really time consuming @sterile moat

[deft herald]

Yeah basically the answer is "speak with your manager".

"What do you need to see from me to get me to the next level?" Etc.

[sterile moat]

Thank you both. But in the case they did not have this "performance review cycle" How can I do it?. I just arrange a meeting with my boss?, maybe an email asking a salary rise?.

[buoyant seal]

Going interviews is kind of full time job effort 😞

[deft herald]

Definitely face-to-face first

[smoky quest]

so no one gets feedback on their performance? No one ever gets promoted or their compensation updated?

[sterile moat]

I think the promotion is about "seeing" the accomplishment of requirements in a certain time period... I'm not sure. But the company should have this "table" with all the performance review cycle?

But if they don't have it, is bad news right?

[smoky quest]

no one will be a better advocate for yourself than yourself

[smoky quest]

it's not best practice

So my advice would be to prompt your manager:

• Ask about performance reviews. How often the company does them, how they work, etc. Even if they say no, it will prompt some conversations behind the scenes
• Ask about feedback on your performance and how to make a plan for your growth to improve and reach the next stage

It won't get you a raise today, but it should put some wheels in motion

[deft herald]

Ask about performance reviews
I would think after 10 months this would already have been communicated 🤷‍♂️

[sterile moat]

Thanks for the advice mate! @smoky quest

[sterile moat]

I have not received anything at the moment. Maybe wait a year? or just start asking tomorrow?

[smoky quest]

you should already have gotten feedback long ago.
at the very least 30 days in, 90 days in and 6 months in

[sterile moat]

Oh, what possible thing could that mean? Or just maybe the manager or my team leader are lazy on these terms...

[fringe sphinx]

I've been guilty of not giving feedback, so I won't throw stones (people in glass houses and all that)

[deft herald]

Definitely start the conversation tomorrow

[sterile moat]

Thanks for all the help guys... it exists a "default" performance review? or some repeated patterns? that can I check them and be prepared?

[deft herald]

We can't answer this for your company. Every company has their own process and schedules; some more formal than others

[sterile moat]

Yes of course... but there are repeated patterns? like , "time in accomplish the requirements" or "good and strong implementations", etc

[deft herald]

Well, my company for instance has a template for every job title in every department. This is used as a guide for reviewing each individual

We have key competencies: Analytical Skills, Building Trusting Relationships, Communication, Creating the New and Different, Decision-Making, Getting Work Done, Technical Knowledge. Each of these has a few sentences describing how each level of engineer should perform to achieve a 1-5 rating

Again, not sure what your company looks like

[sterile moat]

Thanks ! @deft herald

[smoky quest]

Maybe your manager is not aware of the best practices or there is something else.
I cannot speak about the reason since I don't know anything more than what you have presented here

[smoky quest]

Awesomeness is a process, not a state

[fringe sphinx]

I'll try that line on my wife.

[smoky quest]

There are books about management that could help your manager.
For you, you may be more interested in https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897 which describes all the roles at a tech company, from intern all the way to CTO

[smoky quest]

that's what retros are about

[fringe sphinx]

lol for real!

[sterile moat]

My instict tells me that... I think he is not aware. And maybe thinks that is a certain time working on the company that passed that time I should ask for a salary increase.

[little crypt]

I’m trying to get into python but I don’t know the basics anyone know of some sites or ways that have python courses I could take in order to be well trained in python?

[celest kite]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[little crypt]

Thx

[covert vector]

What do you all think is the best way to learn programming in general. I say to build foundations, read a book then do project to cement the information. Maybe watching a few tutorials or taking a course instead of books but i believe that projects are the best way to learn a language

I remember watching a video saying to spend one month hacking your way into a language whether its thru yt tutorials or books. But after 1 month jusy do projects

[spice forge]

Would someone be down to rate my Github profile? I can review yours in return as well.

[true harness]

just send it here

[spice forge]

https://github.com/Deep-Chill

Just general thoughts, strengths/weaknesses, whatever you like

[buoyant seal]

Readme of projects is disappointingly short all the time.
Not really well presented

[dapper bane]

so if I am looking for a job then what should i do with python I am interested in making backends and bots

[smoky quest]

you could look for backend jobs or specifically backend jobs that involve bots, albeit jobs with bots are less abundant

[spice forge]

Yeah makes sense I didn't put any effort there, but I have updated a bunch of them now. Any other thoughts?

[smoky quest]

as a reviewer, you aren't pointing at anything. So either I bail out right away, or I will click on the latest project you committed to

Looking at the latest project, there is no license, no build, not detailed readme, no tests, etc. That would scare me away

[vapid jay]

how to print two words in dicnory order

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Wrong channel. You may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[spice forge]

I've done all these projects for myself and uploaded them as-is just to showcase work I've done to people. I guess I could add all that information but it'd just be bloat nobody will ever use it and I'd just spend time doing it for its sake. What did you think about the projects were they impressive?

[smoky quest]

As a reviewer, I wouldn't even get there.
It's not the job of the reviewer/HM/recruiter to find reasons to call you back

Going through the projects, they would be alright, but nothing impressive comparing to the average student. That's also excluding the craftmanship issues

And I know I sound a bit harsh, but that's how someone would look at your repositories, in the context of careers and hiring.
If you are learning and having fun, then these projects are great

tbh, there isn't enough data to say much.
Like you studied for 2 years for exams to what end?
If you enroll in a bootcamp, then the goal would be to finish it and look for a job?
Before worrying about leetcode, do you get call backs when applying?

[vapid jay]

Ok

What the best resource for programming.. as beginner
Next month moving to college
Cse engineering

[smoky quest]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, makes sense. Appreciate the thoughts.

[smoky quest]

Are you starting the bootcamp on 08/28? Or finishing it?
The point of bootcamp is to be ready for jobs. It is indeed a very short timeframe and that will require quite a bit of work.

[smoky quest]

my advice would be to pick 1-2 projects you want to showcase, tidy them up and point people to them in your profile

• I am not an expert in bootcamps. But make sure it's a reputable one with a high percentage of placements within 6 months
• The market is going to be tough regardless. Any job ad receives thousands of applications, most of which from people with degrees, internships and awesome projects. So you are going to be ambitious to stand out
• You could look at ways to leverage your commerce degree into your career and how it may help you stand out or give you some advantage

[dapper bane]

what else can i do ?

[smoky quest]

What can say based on what I know about you?

so if I am looking for a job then what should i do with python I am interested in making backends and bots

[dapper bane]

Alright I am learning react , react native , godot and unity

[smoky quest]

What's your education level? Location? Experience? Projects?

[dapper bane]

I am looking for an internship . Wanna take a look at my github ?

[smoky quest]

That doesn't answer my questions though

[dapper bane]

I am doing bachelors in computer science

my location is south asia

here take a look at my github : https://github.com/needJobCoder?tab=repositories

[smoky quest]

Got it and thanks!
That's actually awesome because your bachelors opens up the door to anything with a computer!
It could go from the classics backend, frontend but also compiler, programming languages, data science, IoT, robotics, expert systems, AI and literally anything

[dapper bane]

is using react + python a good idea ?

[smoky quest]

You tell me. How would that work? What's your plan?

[dapper bane]

I am already learning node express mongo

[smoky quest]

so you want to be a fullstack javascript engineer?

[dapper bane]

but i wanted to make bots for my websites too

[dapper bane]

i am trying to learn web and mobile both because react and react native are similar

also a little bit of gamedev for passion

[smoky quest]

it's up to you 🙂

[dapper bane]

https://needjob-coder.itch.io/infiniterunnerrpgstyle

here check out my stuff what do u think i should do

[smoky quest]

you should do projects closer to what you want to be hired as

godot is great, awesome and even I do enjoy using it. But employers in non-godot stuff won't care at all

[dapper bane]

yeah I am learning unity netcode for that too

but it is a little tough to get into multiplayer

[smoky quest]

so you will be looking for unity jobs only?

[dapper bane]

right now I am applyin react native and unity jobs because of the low competition

but I am getting a little overwhelmed by all the stuff like jwt socket.io I understand how they work but having difficulty implmenting them

[dapper bane]

wdy think man ?

[smoky quest]

gamedev is crowded and well known for being a shitty space.

But beyond that, whatever floats your boat and interests you.
Do your research on job availability in your market and have fun

[dapper bane]

I dont y but there is like 500 to 1000+ applicants on react internships 60 to 200 on react native internships and 60 to 120 per game dev internship

less people do gamedev in my country

[light sequoia]

i want remote job front-end react

[smoky quest]

Good luck!

[light sequoia]

bruh searcing for job is bad

[smoky quest]

how is searching job a bad thing bro?

[light sequoia]

like i just loose my motivation even if you know many things still it is hard to get job also i am in aisia because of that i can't find my timezone

[smoky quest]

bro your timezone is right there. Tons of jobs too

[light sequoia]

also our currency is rial (lowest money currncy) i hope i can find in america so i can get dolar but time zone doesn't match

[light sequoia]

aisian people say you have to be older than 18 i'm 16

[smoky quest]

everyone, not just in asia bro

[smoky quest]

a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[light sequoia]

nah in some country they let

[smoky quest]

no that's bs

[light sequoia]

england, germany maybe America

[smoky quest]

they all focus on degrees

[light sequoia]

nah degree is not important

[smoky quest]

it absolutely is. Don't believe in tiktoks bro

[light sequoia]

they need your work to see what project you have done , also what are you studying

i will get freecodecamp certificate and w3schools thingy

[smoky quest]

that's not even gonna raise an eyebrow bro

[light sequoia]

youtube people who guide said you can get without degree

[fervent grove]

• youtube

[light sequoia]

have you guys got any job

[summer roost]

if you have a degree, it's obvious what you studied.

and people with degrees have done projects.

[smoky quest]

they are just doing it for views bro. They are lying to you

[light sequoia]

what skill you have and what you guys are hoping for

[harsh river]

they're right next to worthless

[smoky quest]

I am the bro who would interview and hire bros

[light sequoia]

hire me

[fervent grove]

so for i got 2 offers from 2 interviews

[harsh river]

you're a bros bro? will you get a bro for my bros?

[smoky quest]

why would I hire someone without a degree?

[fervent grove]

maybe i spoke to u bro

[smoky quest]

bro for life

[light sequoia]

what do you know front-end backend or fullstack or programming

[harsh river]

damn bro, you're a bro, bro.

[vagrant elm]

what is really boring about being the lead developer for a company? lets say it is a ecommerce website

[harsh river]

probably the paperwork, not sure if you're asking something or not

[light sequoia]

explain to me if i have degree does it give good qality of programmer

[smoky quest]

maybe you did bro. who knows bro

[smoky quest]

It's the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and the most compensation. How to be a big bro

[summer roost]

https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022#education-ed-level-prof - more than 90% of professional developers have at least some college education, about 80% have earned a degree

[light sequoia]

ur right it is nice to have but without it i can get still a job right?

[smoky quest]

Most job ads receive thousands of applications from bros with degrees, internships and awesome projects. What's your plan to stand out bro?

[harsh river]

you can, but it'll be extremely hard

[light sequoia]

why life is being mean

[light sequoia]

that is your choice to try hard or quit

[harsh river]

try hard and get a degree.

[light sequoia]

i'm 16 also in my country certificate they give some country doesn't accept it

[smoky quest]

is it that surprising that a bro studying full time computers for 6-8 years beyond your current state would have an advantage over you bro?

[light sequoia]

i'm studying for 3 years

[harsh river]

i'm sure they must have an equivalent of a degree

[smoky quest]

so do the other bros with a degree

[harsh river]

some of the others bro study for 7-8 or 11-12 years!

[light sequoia]

you are the person that take interview so can you please tell what things do i need

[summer roost]

they have been...

[light sequoia]

by certificate freecodecamp is accepted

[smoky quest]

I already answered that bro.
See #career-advice message

[light sequoia]

so i can get from awsome project

[smoky quest]

it's as useful as a letter from your mom about how you are a good bro

[harsh river]

a freecodecamp certificate is pretty much worthless

[summer roost]

the things that you need in order to get hired are to be a stronger candidate than the other applicants. Better projects, better credentials, better at answering questions during an interview.

[smoky quest]

you need a project better than someone who has a CS degree bro

[light sequoia]

that is mean

[smoky quest]

life is mean, not bros bro

[light sequoia]

life is unfair i know but the path is cominng longer and longer it is like mountain you climb it becomes bigger and bigger

[summer roost]

There's nothing unfair about the most qualified candidate getting the job.

[smoky quest]

lots of bros on the trail leading up that mountain bro

[harsh river]

people who are experienced with mountains will have an easier time climbing it than people who never climb one

[fervent grove]

all bros had to get through that tho

[light sequoia]

https://youtu.be/WR1ydijTx5E

thi is guy who started without degree

[smoky quest]

most of the tiktok bros have zero experience and making it up

[light sequoia]

pintrest or amazon counts

[summer roost]

fewer than 1 out of 10 professional devs managed to get there without any university

[smoky quest]

How does that relate to the sentence you quoted bro?

[light sequoia]

are you hired

[summer roost]

yep, I'm a professional software engineer

[harsh river]

geek works for a big boy company

[light sequoia]

so if i make project like amazon or pintrest does it count awsome project

[smoky quest]

no. All the bros from degrees have the same or more.

Seriously bro, you are 16.
Aim for college/university and you will be all set

[light sequoia]

senior not profession by your talking the only thing i get you are not professional(my feeling and opinion)

[light sequoia]

i want job now

[fervent grove]

🔥

[summer roost]

I don't know what you mean by that. "Professional" means that I am paid to do it.

[harsh river]

oooh spicy

[fervent grove]

then u have to face reality

[light sequoia]

you say your are professional but we don't have that word it is junior or senior

is there any site that certificate is valid

[smoky quest]

try to think about it from the other side.
Project yourself at 22 when you graduate from school. That's like 6 years in the future.
Now imagine when you are 16-6= 10 years old to now. Look at how much you have grown and learnt between now and when you were 10 years old. It will be an even bigger difference when you get to 22 with your degree

[summer roost]

"professional" just means it's my main paid occupation. It's orthogonal to level. But my level is senior.

[light sequoia]

you are not in my situation i'm country that is name iran it is like hell

[smoky quest]

same shit everywhere bro

[light sequoia]

youtube and instagram is filter is your filter?

[smoky quest]

you are saying a 10 years old should be able to compete with someone who knows as much as you do today

[smoky quest]

bro is bro

[light sequoia]

i don't

[summer roost]

you're in Iran and you're hoping companies in the US will hire you to work from Iran and pay you in dollars, based on what you said above? No company will do that. It would be quite illegal for them to do that.

[smoky quest]

you are advocating as much from the employer's perspective

[light sequoia]

ik but other country do

[fervent grove]

i doubt that as soon as u get income ur government comes and wants it i guess

[light sequoia]

it doesn't matter where but it should have at least good currency even arabs or singapore is nice

[light sequoia]

nah i have people in there so they can send the money (don't worry about those things)

[smoky quest]

remote jobs are paying based on the employee's location, not the company.
So your salary will be based on how much someone with your education and skill level makes in your city

[summer roost]

It will be quite tough to find remote work from Iran as an Iranian national given the current state of sanctions against Iran. You will be much better served by either trying to get a job in Iran, or by trying to emigrate from Iran. And emigration is basically only an option for people with degrees, or people at least pursuing degrees

[light sequoia]

i'm from afghanistan but because of situation of taliban i came iran here is bad people are so racist even though my parents are educated people my mom and dad both are doctore but because racism iranian people have this is place like hell

[fervent grove]

try as good as u can to educate urself as far as possible in iran and leave asap to another country

[light sequoia]

my plan was to find job to get hell out of here

[fervent grove]

but u see world politics isnt that easy;
its sad and unfair but its reality

[light sequoia]

ik

[smoky quest]

Visas do care very much about your degrees bro

[fervent grove]

if ur parents are "wealthy" they could offer u abroad studying

[summer roost]

I very much empathize with your situation, but the things you're saying are reasons why it's more important for you to get a degree

[smoky quest]

Degrees are generally considered as "social elevators"

[summer roost]

emigrating without a degree is much, much harder than emigrating with a degree.

[fervent grove]

but he got a point in saying iranian degrees arent accepted in western world

[smoky quest]

I doubt it

[light sequoia]

my parents make 2000 $

[fervent grove]

i can only tell in field of science

[light sequoia]

currency here is low that there is nothing we can do about it
but still we are wealthy but i i want come there my parents can't handle the expenses

[smoky quest]

tons of iranian students here and there somehow

[harsh river]

they're not accepted "as is" but you will have to go thru an homologation process

[fervent grove]

u can do partime work in aboard country aswell, ive grown up in "poor" western family and had to work while studying

[fervent grove]

as refugees?

[light sequoia]

they came there cause only goverment asked for english o improve otherwise they couldn't

[light sequoia]

nice bruh you gotte respect how old ar eyou right now?

[smoky quest]

https://www.educations.com/articles-and-advice/best-study-abroad-destinations-for-iranian-students-12847
They make it sound more like travel destination, but looks like there are options.

Also to make matter worse, they are afghan in Iran

[smoky quest]

also bro note that doctors and folks from the medical field are different. There are more checks about homologation than in tech bro

[light sequoia]

guys if you help i'm not saying you should but if in company they wanted front-end can you tell them to have knowing about me?

[light sequoia]

it is for iranian but i'm not even citizen of iran they don't give me citizen so ever one year i have to update my passport

[smoky quest]

that's not cool bro.
People won't lie about you

[fervent grove]

how would we be able to? we saw 0 work of u

[smoky quest]

it actually might be easier for people from Afghanistan

[light sequoia]

i just said introduce me to them i didn't said to lie

[summer roost]

I can absolutely tell you, as a fact, that no one will hire a 16 year old kid in Iran to work for any company in North America or the EU, for sure.

[light sequoia]

it sounds stupid for this kinda request but expresience make me better in less time

[smoky quest]

So you want us to say that there is a 16 years old in Iran without a degree who wants to be introduced to a job?
How would that help to stand out with the thousands of others 22 years old with a degree, internships and awesome projects?

[fervent grove]

see @light sequoia we dont want to be harsh but this isnt how any of this works

[smoky quest]

bro, to the folks that are 22 years old with a degree, you are like a 10 years old asking to join the game. You aren't ready yet

[light sequoia]

bruh it is bad ik but everything possible you don't have limit except your minnd

[light sequoia]

i said as good person

[smoky quest]

you can still be a good 10 years old kid

[summer roost]

no, companies care an awful lot about laws.

[light sequoia]

or i can be fantastic 10 years old

[fervent grove]

we dont doubt u are but u are competing with fantastic 22yo

[smoky quest]

so can the 22 years old be fantastic bros

[summer roost]

it is not legal for most companies to hire you - at least for North America and Europe, I can't speak for Africa or Asia. And even if they could legally hire you, they'd be choosing you over someone better educated in their own country. It's extremely unlikely that you will succeed in getting a remote job for a foreign company as a minor living in Iran.

[smoky quest]

don't take it as punishment bro.
Take it as a sign there are a lot of things to learn and a lot of fun things to go through.
You still have tons of things to see. It will be great bro

[fervent grove]

I would strongly advise you to try studying abroad

[light sequoia]

i have dream

[summer roost]

dreams don't pay the bills

[harsh river]

sadly you won't be able to achieve your dreams unless you go abroad most likely

[light sequoia]

I can die with dream or memories

[cinder fossil]

Remote work laws make it super complex if you don't reside in the same country we operate, so even if you were excellent we'd have to get you into the country legally. And the hassle of that as well as the complex legal process makes it far more beneficial for us to hire one of the hundreds of other candidates from within these countries that are just as good

[smoky quest]

studying would make your dreams more achievable. It would also open up bigger bro dreams bro

[summer roost]

optimism is great, and important, but your optimism is misplaced if you think it will be easy to find a foreign company willing to hire a minor to work remotely from a country facing heavy international sanctions instead of hiring an adult from their own country, or an expert from some other country.

[fervent grove]

geek speaks like a real professional we need to listen to him bros

[light sequoia]

This is job I am doing