career-advice

[true harness]

for swe job for new graduates open in like 2 months

[hearty island]

i think my resume will be more competitive with the CAPM designation

[hearty island]

same w PM roles

[fringe sphinx]

Good First Issue is a label in GitHub issues. An issue labeled ‘good first issue’ is meant for first time contributors who want to get involved in the project. It doesn’t mean the issue is ‘easy’, but it usually means that it’s self contained.

[ripe ridge]

What project do you suggest a 16yo should start?

[fringe sphinx]

What’s your experience w coding?

[ripe ridge]

I know python, learning tkinter on my own
succesfully built my own calculator, tho it's not much i spent hours learning on how to build a proper one

[fringe sphinx]

Check out these:

Oh, do you mean; what project should you create on your own? Or what git repository you should try to contribute to? Or, what training : educational project should you use for learning?

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[ripe ridge]

I'm actually interested in both creating my own projects and contributing to open-source repositories

[ripe ridge]

Thanks

[fringe sphinx]

For contributing, find a project you are interested in, look at their git issues, and find an issue tagged ‘good first issue’.

[true harness]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[pastel thunder]

best way to get more stars on github? i mean how to get noticed more?

[proven crest]

Same way as getting noticed on most platforms. Have good content, share the content, be active. There’s not real secret.

[pastel thunder]

where do i share it? most places seems to have rule against it.

[proven crest]

Share it to places for feedback, share on Reddit, Twitter etc. be active in communities that collaborate. If it’s Python related I’d like to see it so drop a link 🙂

[pastel thunder]

can i do in dm? I think here there is a rule against it

[proven crest]

Sure but if you’re looking for feedback to improve your GitHub posting it here would allow other people to provide feedback too.
I’m just one person, it’s good to get a variety of feedback, especially as there are people from different backgrounds (dev ops, devs, recruiters) in here.
That’s not against the rules AFAIK.

[dire dagger]

Do freelancers face difficulty while transitioning into a full time job ? I've heard that free lancers in a particular domain aren't considered for full time -- is that true ?

[fringe sphinx]

asking for stars = bad. Asking for feedback on your resume (which might include git projects) = ok. something like that

[fringe sphinx]

I consulted for years. It's just another job, just with more customers. I respect it a lot because it means you had to self-organize/prioritize/etc... couldn't depend on someone else to do everything for you.

So, I don't think it's a hard transition, personally... but depends on the projects you do. Freelancing often leads to job offers.

[dire dagger]

Yes, even my thinking is similar

a person who has free lanced well has diversified knowledge

I was thinking about free lancing because I don't like facing pressure from a regular full time job, I want to do projects at my comfort -- money isn't a big problem for me

[fringe sphinx]

it's also important to be well rounded. My career has startups, big tech, consulting, my own company, etc.

But I don't know what I would've done if I could've landed consulting and/or freelancing gigs at the very beginning

[hearty island]

damn i had no idea recruiters on Handshake actually say stuff

[fringe sphinx]

Do y’all use handshake much?

I created an employer account a while back but haven’t used it much.

[hearty island]

i use it to cold message and apply for some jobs. my last internship got me through handshake

[hearty island]

fuck it boys and girls we are applying to clothing brand corporate offices now

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, not personally, but I know that's where my company found our most recent intern

[proven crest]

I mean if a freelancer is full time they’re full time regardless, right?

[dire dagger]

No by freelancer I mean a complete freelancer

and not a full time guy doing freelancing for extra bucks

[hardy blade]

Is it normal to not put in a full 8 hours of focused work? I'm not sure how people do it without getting distracted from meetings or just having to stretch or take a walk.

I see my colleagues online at 7-8 AM in the morning, until 6-7 PM and it makes me think im doing something wrong

[hearty island]

i can't do 8 hours straight

[hardy blade]

i think i probably get 4 hours of focused work per day, max... Even if i were to work past the 8 hour window, im not sure how much more productive it would be (unless i'm trying to meet a tight deadline)

Kind of embarrassed to say that tbh

[hearty island]

i work for 25 minutes and then take a 5 minute break and then repeat the process (pomodoro)

i find that works for me lol

i use that to study too

[buoyant seal]

Is it normal to not put in a full 8 hours of focused work? I'm not sure how people do it without getting distracted from meetings or just having to stretch or take a walk.
i try to adhere to it, but in reality it can be 6 hours maximum of focused works.
I manage to do it in maximum capcity because in working from home usually less distracted and less tired in general (because eating plentifully with food accesed from fridge, getting shower when necessary and etc)

[hardy blade]

How long have you been doing this for? To be honest, ive never given it a shot, i know people rave about it

[hearty island]

i've been doing it for 2 years

it used to drive my mom crazy tho lmao she'd want me to study for like 2 hours straight at a time

[hardy blade]

FOr sure, maybe i will go ahead and start today. How many pomodoros did you start out with and how many do you do now on a good day?

[hearty island]

well now i'm doing my CAPM so i normally do 4 pomodoros so that's an hour and 40 minutes

[true harness]

for me, yes. usually I stay focused for as long as I'm not bored. it depends on what I'm working on. if I lose the thread or don't have a clear plan I kinda get bored. like right now...

[hardy blade]

CAPM?

4 pomodoros meaning 25 min work, 5 min break, repeated 4 times, except for ur last break you take it for 15 min?

[hearty island]

certified associate project manager

[hearty island]

yep

[hardy blade]

Alright, im going to make it a goal for me to do 1 pomodoro today

thanks for the helps

[fringe sphinx]

pomodoro just makes me hungry for pasta

[hardy blade]

Yeah I can see how its counterproductive... how the hell are you supposed to get any work done if all you're thinking about is pasta for 25 min

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe that's how long it takes to stew the tomatos?

[near ocean]

When/if you guys open tickets for bugs/improvements/refactoring/whatever, do you assign them to yourself or do you let the team lead pass them around?
Lately I've opened a bunch of tickets I'd like to tackle but i havent gotten any one of them

Should I start self-assigning? Is it rude?

[fringe sphinx]

That's a question to your lead. Don't assign or categorize, because your team lead should have an opinion.

[near ocean]

My lead's opinion so far is to give my tickets away 💀

[fringe sphinx]

Lead might say: "Oh, just self-assign when you're ready to work on it, otherwise leave in the backlog"

That's a "go have lunch with your lead" situation.

[pseudo olive]

Can anyone evaluate my CV for DevOps/Mainframe/Linux Sysadmin jobs please? I'm applying in Europe. Mainly Switzerland (Hybrid) and the rest of EMEA remotely.

[wanton birch]

Wow! That looks so nice and clean

[summer roost]

If I create a ticket, it's usually "someone should do this eventually" rather than "I'm going to go this soon". That is, unless the ticket I'm creating is directly related to a sprint I'm I'm currently working on and blocking the current sprint, I expect it to eventually be considered and prioritized.

[pseudo olive]

Got at least 8 recruiters from top companies contacting me, and scheduling an interview. Guess, what they did after? Never attended and ghosted me lol. I'm worried

[fringe sphinx]

For me, I'll create an issue so I can commit and cite the issue

[pseudo olive]

Never worked in Europe before, so no idea about people's behavior here towards the work environment.

[near ocean]

Yea im not adding them to the current sprint or any sprint, that would be rude i think, our team lead is in charge of the sprint and knows better anyway
When I create tickets they go into the backlog, but theyre unassigned. If i self-assigned them would it be overreach? Im not saying this should be done now, rather, when its time for this to be done, i want to do it and not someone else

Also comes across as not a good team player

[summer roost]

Proper Agile would say that nothing in the backlog should be assigned. The team commits to some amount of work for a given sprint, and only after that does the work get divvied up based on who is going to do it

[summer roost]

That sounds very weird.

[near ocean]

Perhaps its our ticket assigning process that's bad, its a rotating queue that the lead goes through and asks each person which ticket they want to do
Its been 3-4 sprints now that all the tickets I raised thinking i would get to implement are snatched away 💀

[fringe sphinx]

Nice resume, some minor critiques:
Experience:
"passed... " seems out of place. Move to bottom of bullets, maybe rephrase.

Maybe downplay the Mainframe stuff, unless you want a mainframe job. Isntead of "Mainframe Operator", maybe just "Operator".

There's some grammatical stuff... like "Leading the Operations Team as Focal..."... what's focal? Missing a word, I think.
I like the "Leveraged Python and Bash scripting" (capitalize). Put that high on the bullets: show that you can Code.

Education: Swap the bullets. Put the specialty up top, because that is more important

[wanton birch]

Sorry to hear that. I don’t know why they do that to people. Hope you’ll soon come across the respectable ones too.

[pseudo olive]

Right? Maybe its the gap year? Which is more like recovery year. No idea. I'm a bit rusty, being working on design this year, but still everyday updating my github and putting out stuff.

[acoustic thicket]

In my opinion it is the best style ever, this is the template. I've been using it for years https://github.com/posquit0/Awesome-CV

[pseudo olive]

Thanks Billy, yeah I'm trying everything. All these jobs are minimum wage in the canton, which is a really high salary for me anyways. I wanted a job in devops due to personal ambitions, but I don't care landing a Mainframe, Linux or even Support job for that matter.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup. Mainframe is somewhat limiting, and your resume reads well. Emphasize the general stuff first, I'd suggest: Python, Bash, and general sysadmin stuff

[wanton birch]

Oh no it’s latexy stings I don’t understand

[pseudo olive]

Focal is an IBM term I guess. It's the team leader that the manager assigns to be responsible for a specific project. In this case, it was a transition. It's also used as a test for potential future managers.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, remember that certain words like "leveraged" and "maintained" are just fluff. You could rewrite to be more direct: like: "Developed script-based CI/CD pipelines in GitHub actions for multiple corporate repositories"

[pseudo olive]

True, it's fluff, but it goes well to show dominance over the English language, no?

[fringe sphinx]

Not really, because everyone uses the same language

Leveraged is one of those over-used but (usually) means nothing words

[pseudo olive]

Alright, will remove it.

Should I change focal to just Lead?

I thought it was something known in the corporate world haha

[wanton birch]

Funny how the job adverts themselves are often full of that fluff! It’s super weird to be judged by the same people for adding fluff to my content! 🤣🔫

[pseudo olive]

I agree on that. They also always demand a response from me, you can't do the same haha

[fringe sphinx]

I'm just speaking from my personal experience and perspective. When I get a stack of resumes, I read the first three bullets (more or less) of the most recent job. If I like what i read, then I keep going.

[summer roost]

The reason for the fluff is to make it less difficult to lead. If every bullet point uses the words "developed" and "led", people's eyes start to glaze over after a few bullets

Which is the same reason that job ads use all those synonyms.

[wanton birch]

That’s sad

[summer roost]

That's typical.

[vapid jay]

Hey guys, does anyone knows how to fix [Errno 2] problem?

[summer roost]

People doing resume reviews need to look at a lot of resumes. You don't have long to capture someone's interest

[wanton birch]

Oh no I meant the part where they are talking about the company. Usually the two paragraphs in the beginning and the two in the end are full of vague buzzwords and whatevers

[fringe sphinx]

Ask on #python-discussion

[pseudo olive]

So keep the fluff or not?

[summer roost]

Ah, I see. That just comes down to it being really hard to describe culture and product fit.

[wanton birch]

You got 9 top companies showing interest, so I don’t see what’s wrong

[pseudo olive]

Not landing a job and just being ghosted after sending the cv and them scheduling an interview

it's been a month and a half now

[fringe sphinx]

You want this part to look amazing:

[daring sphinx]

As an old person, that seems like a very normal job hunt experience.

[fringe sphinx]

That's about all I'll look at when filtering resumes.

[daring sphinx]

(I'm looking for a job now, it still sucks.)

[fringe sphinx]

So, expanding a little bit more here: If your title was "Focal", whatever that means, maybe put that in your title: "Support/Automation Operator and Global Account Migration Focal". Push the technical skills higher, so I see you wrote Python and Bash in the very first bullet.

[pseudo olive]

I might be a bit spoiled. IBM was my first job, I just applied once and got it haha

Like first CV I sent and done

[daring sphinx]

I had an interview with a recruiter who said I was perfect for a founding engineer position, and after I expressed willingness to talk, he asked for my resume.

They turned me down, which was probably fine, because it didn't seem like they had a clear idea of what they needed.

[fringe sphinx]

That's kinda the recruiter problem... they're terrible at filtering. I usually tell my recruiters to just give me everything and I'll filter.

[pseudo olive]

Got it. That's really great advice, thanks man

As of "put that in your title", you mean on the top section, or the IBM job title?

[pseudo olive]

They turned you down, or ghosted you?

[fringe sphinx]

IBM job title

[pseudo olive]

Amazing, thanks

[wanton birch]

I emailed a recruiter who contacted me for an opportunity and asked me if I was interested. They never got back. I am not sure if I should periodically keep emailing asking about it or not. Emailed twice so far.

[daring sphinx]

They specifically turned me down, but I've been on the receiving end of a wonderful rainbow of thoughtless employer behavior.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I got turned down once by a company who wanted an expert at a software product, that I was previously the director of engineering for.

[daring sphinx]

A place that can't get it together not to ghost you isn't a place you want to be working in the first place.

[summer roost]

Depends what you mean by "fluff"... When you need to describe the same action for multiple different bullets, try to find synonyms so you're not repeating exactly the same words over and over (developed X, developed Y, developed Z). But don't add unnecessary adjectives, like "market-leading" or "best in class" or such. For instance, you say "ensuring optimal performance and efficiency cross-teams". "Optimal" means that it couldn't possibly be improved. That's certainly not true for any communications involving humans. I'd instead say something like "improving performance and efficiency across teams"

[pseudo olive]

Same thing. I knew I was a perfect match for that company. Open source, sourcing thinkpads to employees, I was willing to even take a lower salary just because I liked them and I said it. Guy just ghosted me. I was on linkedin people getting hired for that same position, and they didn't have half of the skills and experienced I had. In fact one of them was a translator, with a translator degree. Very unfair.

[summer roost]

I'd follow up once, then drop it.

[pseudo olive]

But in Italy/Switzerland a lot of things comes down to recommendations. They will take their dumb's friend daughter instead of you just because they know their family.

[wanton birch]

In theory, yes. But after a year and hundreds of applications and not getting any interest in you, things get pretty desperate. Out of funds in a new land. It is not pretty! I’ll accept any amount of abuse to survive.

[pseudo olive]

Thanks, you guys are heroes!

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. 100%. Not just dumb friends daughter: I told this story before, but I was hiring at a big tech company. inhouse recruiter got hundreds of resumes in response. I never saw a single one: I hired from recommendations that my peers would drop on my desk

[pseudo olive]

That's still nice regardless haha

[pseudo olive]

So, would you recommend digging on linkedin? Making connections, try talking to people?

I try networking in person as much as I can, but IT here is a niche.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, of course. Never have lunch alone is an ole sales mantra.

[pseudo olive]

So, cold calling people and mentioning you looking for a job? lol

[fringe sphinx]

Big diff between not having lunch alone, and spamming people

[wanton birch]

Step one : Find out all the hiring managers and recruiters you want to impress.

Step two: Find out who they work with and somehow try to impress those people and build a relationship where they trust you.

Step three: apply with their reference

I am not sure how that is to be implemented in practice but that’s what I hear whenever the subject of networking and references comes up

[hearty island]

i almost networked myself into an oracle internship lol

[pseudo olive]

I want more details haha

[wanton birch]

They are still around?

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Eat-Alone-Expanded-Updated/dp/0385346654

[hearty island]

oracle?

[pseudo olive]

So, you would essentially just add connections in common with recruiters? And then approach someone to refer you + recruiter?

[daring sphinx]

I got my previous job of five years because my boss liked my comic strip. I'm unsure how to apply this as broader advice.

[dusky dune]

Hi everyone. I am on a break from learning to code because my main economics study consumes a lot of time.
Because my study does not consume much of my time at this time of the year, I want to learn other things.
As I said, I was learning how to code Python a while ago, and I do like it, but is learning Python still a valuable skill to know?
Lately, I have seen that AI can generate code with Python. This makes me wonder if learning Python is the right thing for me.
How do you look at the evolution of AI-generating code, and what type of Python knowledge will outlive the AI?

[wanton birch]

All you can do is try your best both digitally and in person. This sounds easy but is not that simple. Most people don’t spend that much time responding to strangers trying to suck up to them. And the ways in which you build report genuinely, it always takes time before people for comfortable and confident.

But there is no harm in playing the long term game and improving your odds for the future.

[pseudo olive]

This seems like the type of book that will teach me how to get a cocktail with recruiters, get them drunk and convince them they hired me the next day. But I will definitely have a peek, thanks.

[wanton birch]

^takes note^

• Write comic strips

[fringe sphinx]

I think the main point is: leave the house. Do something different than what you're already doing.

[daring sphinx]

The short version is, he was following me on Twitter, I was complaining about my job, and he said "That sounds a lot like what we do here. You should apply."

[pseudo olive]

Well, I'm putting up a graphic design portfolio. I meet people daily here, just not on my line of work. I'm in Italy in the Swiss border applying to a Canton. That's something a bit more complex let's say, but I will keep digging for sure

Definitely don't like their hiring attitude around here though, very unprofessional. But oh well, work is money after all ...

[pseudo olive]

I met quite a deal of people that made it like that. I'm going full corporate just because of the perks for now. But also to integrate here. Just recently arrived

[hearty island]

rejected from jpm chase (expected)

[pseudo olive]

Be happy about it

[wanton birch]

Just got this email

[pseudo olive]

These assessments tend to be very humiliating

I always try smaller companies for this very reason

[wanton birch]

The emphasis was on their system failing to retrieve my name

[near ocean]

I dont even get responses back from the likes of jpmc, goldman sachs, morgan stanley, etc

[hearty island]

why

[hearty island]

i just get lucky ig

[pseudo olive]

Lol, I just noticed it now. Guess I'm so used to see these it didn't click. Normal

[wanton birch]

This is automated

[pseudo olive]

Working in a big bank is hardcore. The interview process is extremely hardcore.

[hearty island]

but what if i want to do that

[pseudo olive]

Sadism

[hearty island]

it’s not working as an analyst it’s as a PM

[pseudo olive]

Goldman sachs made me resolve insane quantitative issues, two iq tests, and algorithm exercise. By half of it I wanted to die already. Glad I never took that position.

Most guys I met working there wanted to hang themselves

[hearty island]

that’s why you move somewhere else after a couple years

[proven crest]

You can't realistically expect a non automated response to confirm your application, embarrassing that their dynamic field failed though l o l. Probably a new employee or just human error

[wanton birch]

I never expect that. That wasn’t the emphasis. It’s just funny to me.

[wanton birch]

They’d never even get back to me. So I’d say you’ve done well, buddy’ be proud

[pseudo olive]

Recommendation! They would never have got back to me otherwise haha

[wanton birch]

My references are all on the other side of the Atlantic 😞

[pseudo olive]

It's not easy these days man, hope you make it!

[hearty island]

rejected from Crowe

[hardy blade]

@hearty island I did 2 Pomos today, on my break rn. Hoping i can do 2 more and ill feel very accomplished. Didn't realize how helpful this would be

[hearty island]

good stuff!

[hearty island]

rejected from deutsche bank

[reef delta]

I am 17 (I know python and manim(math animation modul)) and I want to do work where I learn what should I do?

[deft herald]

I want to do work where I learn what should I do?
Can you reword this? I'm not sure what you're asking

[reef delta]

ok: Hello I am 17 I know a up to OOP python and have limited knowlage of modules (I know manim and all the basic ones). I am currently working at a supermarket stacking shelves. Is there any jobs you would suggest where I can learn more about python or other programming languages at my age?

[deft herald]

That's called college 🙂

[reef delta]

I know but I am still in highschool

[proven crest]

Your best bet is to finish High School with good grades and go to College. It's possible you could find a small company that would take you on part time, but unlikely. It would have to be a sacrifice on their part. You could continue learning and try to freelance some projects. Once you turn 18 you could use sites like Upwork and Fiver

[reef delta]

to summarize: wait

[deft herald]

Yeah what Pyrex said. You most likely will not be able to find a paying job making use of what programming skills you have now. You can spend all your free time learning, go to college to get a degree in CS, and during that time you can get internships (that will be paying jobs) between semesters

[reef delta]

Is there truely nothing before collage?

[proven crest]

What country are you in?

[reef delta]

netherlands

[deft herald]

There are freelancing websites on which you will compete with highly skilled programmers working in extremely low cost-of-living places

[proven crest]

Maybe Apprenticeships. Look into it. Its essentially a low paid job where you earn a qualification whilst working.

[reef delta]

thats what I was thinking about the problem I see with that is that there are verry little programing Apprenticeships out there since your taking up valueble time of a other programmer.

[proven crest]

Might be called Traineeship? I'm not familiar with NL. I can't help much with how many or little there are. Since you're in the EU you can expand your search into Germany and other EU countries if you have the means and maturity to move

[reef delta]

stage

[reef delta]

bro I am 17 I can't afford to spend all my money on train tickets

[proven crest]

Thats why I said "if you have the means and maturity to move"

Again your best and easiest option is to finish High School and go to college.

[reef delta]

thats the long term plan but what should I do know?

[hearty island]

perform well in school and go to college. i agree w pyrex

[proven crest]

Stack shelves, enjoy the summer, drink beer with your friends.

[reef delta]

already doing that

[harsh river]

if i couldn't afford train tickets i couldn't afford beers

[reef delta]

do you think i have friends?

[proven crest]

All the more reason to socialise and make some. Soft skills are as important as hard ones if you want to be successful.

[deft herald]

Almost there

[hardy blade]

Can my company track my ChatGPT usage if I am using a separate, personal, machine and manually typing in code?

[deft herald]

You should not ever give company intellectual property to anyone outside of your company without explicit permission

I cannot stress this enough. This is how people get fired.

[hardy blade]

I'm not, im using small snippets of code and changing up business logic and variable names to obfuscate that

[deft herald]

If you are ever needing to ask the question "can my company tell that i'm doing this", that's probably a good indication that you shouldn't be doing it

[hardy blade]

I have a feeling that you are the type of person who thinks we live in a perfect world where greed and corruption doesn't exist, a world in which a corporation won't ruthlessly lay you off

[deft herald]

🤷‍♂️ no but i don't think that even applies here

[true harness]

how is that relevant?

[vapid jay]

hello

[dreamy shadow]

No, as long as you're not including comments/code that says: def Google_secret_model: ...
Ethically, depends on your company policies.

[balmy mural]

Not really. Finish school, get your HBO/WO, get into the job market. There's a lot of demand for good developers in the Netherlands, but you'll need a degree.

[buoyant seal]

you should not do it without explicit permission. Samsung company devs already did it and leaked their private code
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2023/05/02/samsung-bans-chatgpt-and-other-chatbots-for-employees-after-sensitive-code-leak/?sh=4c019d046078

[smoky quest]

The fact you have to hide the activity is a already a strong signal in itself that you should pause and rethink it

[hardy blade]

I have thought about it. I'm obfuscating variable names and using snippets of code. I'm not copying and pasting things in. If I wasn't thinking about it, then i would be copying and pasting whole blocks of proprietary code in.

[deft herald]

But why? Is it worth going through all that effort?

[hardy blade]

Because it can save me a significant amount of time writing out boilerplate code, which allows me to use that time for something else

[smoky quest]

That's missing the point.
If it's not a problem, then there is no reason to hide it

[hardy blade]

I'm not hiding behind it.. and theres no business logic in it, im doing what i can on my part to remove all the proprietary info

[smoky quest]

then just do it on your work machine

[hardy blade]

Hmm i see i see

[smoky quest]

I also doubt that you will gain time by going code -> obfuscation -> codeai -> deobfuscation -> code

[hardy blade]

You'd be surprised

[fringe sphinx]

Make sure to have an email thread where you lead/boss/super is made aware of what you are doing.

[smoky quest]

I would.
Because that's a sign of some code that could be generated via traditional tooling or libraries

[hardy blade]

You forgot the "/s".

Also the tech lead on my team used Chat GPT for something, which was presented to the team. I'm guessing if he did it, then it must be okay, given that nothing proprietary is fed into the prompts.

[gaunt wren]

is anyone here from south africa?

[fringe sphinx]

Im trying to teach a valuable career lesson: always have a paper trail

[deft herald]

The other valuable career lesson is "don't copy any company code to external websites".

I can actually speak from experience here. I once copied a simple shell script that ran rsync to pastebin just for my own reference. I got a nasty email from IT a few weeks later demanding an explanation for why that happened

[true harness]

is the sql formatter stealing my queries

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, and for the love of Godzilla, don’t copy other peoples code from the internet or anywhere into your project.

And commit it to corporate repo

“But it was just some code from a tutorial”

[proven crest]

So you plan to go onto your personal machine, write out the code (changing important information) get a response, then type out that response on your work machine and you think that'll save you time? Why not just write the code yourself? If its a skill issue shouldn't you problem solve so you learn? If you start doing that and writing code that you don't fully understand (or understand why you implemented x like x because you didn't write it) code reviews will get interesting. In the med term you'll stop growing as a developer too. Whats worse is you clearly know its wrong since you're trying to hide it.. Just dont.

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I used chatgpt often for code questions. Similar to stackoverflow.

[hardy blade]

How am I hiding it? The tech Lead on my team clearly isn't hiding it, he showed it in a demo in front of my boss and his boss.

[proven crest]

Can my company track my ChatGPT usage if I am using a separate, personal, machine and manually typing in code?

Sounds like you have something to hide. If your company is fine with it why are you asking?

[sleek egret]

I suspect your tech lead performance is assessed using different metrics than you

[hardy blade]

You sound like someone who supports the Patriot Act. "If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be afraid"

[proven crest]

Asking code questions is fine its a great learning resource, having it write code for you is a completely different situation.

[sleek egret]

well, 1) that's true and 2) none of here can provide advice about your interactions with your employer

[hardy blade]

Again, its just boilerplate code. if i dont understand something, i dig in further and ask about the syntax

[deft herald]

Again, not relevant here. Private companes can do what they want in terms of protecting their own IP. If they catch any of it getting leaked, they have all the reason they need to sack your ass

[sleek egret]

if you want to use it, use it. no one here cares at all.

[hardy blade]

I don't disagree with that.

[deft herald]

🤷‍♂️ you don't think companies want to protect their IP?

(oh you don't disagree)

[sleek egret]

if you get fired for using chatgpt, no one here will care. if you get fat bonuses for using it, no one here will care.

[proven crest]

Are you hiding all your searches too? Hiding when you check documentation? I don't understand your point here

[pseudo olive]

My general advice coming from the experience I had is: Make sure to do anything to save up your time, but also make sure you understand what you're doing. At the beginning of my first job I was writing code to automate stupid ticket procedures and I never told anyone. Got more spare time to study, learn new stuff and jump to a better team

[dreamy shadow]

Stop the personal attacks. Just watch out what you are using chatgpt for. Generic code is ok, specific company algorithms are not.

[pseudo olive]

You could also do that for personal benefit, I see no problem in that, as long as you're protecting yourself in that environment and not affecting someone directly. If they discover and you get fired, hey, that's life. You can always start over again

My manager figured it out later, got insanely pissed, but I was already getting my entry pass to a "promotion". I just screwed that douche, he wasn't a good leader/person either. Very abusive with extra hours and stuff, so I don't regret it.

[fringe sphinx]

Speaking as an employer, I'd say this is certainly a "talk to your lead", and it's dangerous advice to say "generic code is ok".

I've seen the same issues with copyright discussions, where people assume things about what "public domain" means. Heck, my companies have had policies about click through EULAs that everyone seems to love clicking on.

[wanton birch]

I’d be very worried about leaking company stuff to a third party thing with ChatGPT. I’d be totally fine if it was a locally run model though. Then it’s just a tool.

[fringe sphinx]

My point is about whose decision is it. It's not the employees decision, it's the employers decision.

[wanton birch]

Of course! You are working for them. It’s their stuff.

[pseudo olive]

This is a very hard topic to discuss. Depends on a bunch of aspects. Size of company, leadership, willingness to be responsible, circumstances. I guess we're all big boys and it's up to us to weight and take the burden anyways.

[hardy blade]

The other issue is that as soon as they make Chat GPT enterprise, its pretty much game over. 1 person will be able to do the task of whole dev teams or many dev teams.

The manager will be able to enter their requirements and pump out what they need for the higher ups

[near ocean]

Thats not how anything works

[wanton birch]

So we are safe as long as they still suck ass at coming up with proper requirements

Also! Who’d be the owner? I mean in terms of responsibility

[deft herald]

Yeah we're nowhere near this

[hardy blade]

I would expect the person who is providing the input to chat gpt

[near ocean]

A great deal of assumptions on this AI doomer posting, managers will not be replacing their dev team not now not ever not in any parallel universe

[wanton birch]

Yeah! No. I think that is too much responsibility for anyone. Also that you can’t be responsible for something you didn’t even review!

[deft herald]

The first time i see a job posting that says "need a developer to maintain AI-generated code", i'm throwing in the towel and going to retire

[near ocean]

You'll definitely see them and their mere existence is an oxymoron
Either you can have someone do multiple people's jobs with AI or you have to hire people to deal with unmaintainable AI jank
You can only pick one

[graceful mason]

If the only thing you do is writing boiler plate code that chat GPT can apparently do better, and your boss will replace you without hesitation, it kind of sounds like your job shouldn't exist in the first place and you should be worried.
Learn new things so that you aren't replaceable rather than getting chat GPT to do work for you

[pseudo olive]

Most of the tech economy is fake anyways. AI and advanced computing will not replace everyone, but it sure will give this boom a downfall, that's expected.

[pseudo olive]

Or use ChatGPT to give you time to learn long lasting skills haha

[near ocean]

Based get-better post

[sleek egret]

that's a bit harsh

[near ocean]

Seems everyone is struggling with phrasing atm, i dont see anything wrong with the comment

[buoyant seal]

In reality it is different though

Like

• manager inserts some requirements
• then he asks developer, where to input this code (manager has no idea where) (which is not even working in the first place)
• end of manager attempts to develop

[near ocean]

Manager doesnt necessarily mean they cant code

[sleek egret]

lol, that's sorta funny

either way, writing the code is the easy part and rarely takes a long time

[pseudo olive]

~10 years later: "You boys ready to return to manual labor? Milk some caws, wipe some chimneys "

[sleek egret]

we already have machines for that

[pseudo olive]

I wonder what will happen when they become too expensive, or people that maintain these things become scarce for some reason.

[graceful mason]

Is it though? We literally work in an industry whose aim is to get rid of inefficiency, if I joined a department where people spent hours every day copying and pasting boilerplate code I'd want to get rid of it
There are a lot of people who are aware they don't really do anything, but want to stay that way. Being made redundant is something they should be afraid of, and they only way to avoid it is to not be redundant.
Realistically if you currently think you could be replaced by chat GPT then you've been replaceable for years, it's just nobody has put in the work to replace you

[pseudo olive]

There's a lot to happen still, good luck for all of us

[sleek egret]

why would the machines become "too expensive"?

[pseudo olive]

Scarcity of resources is one thing. Economic instability. It happened before.

[dreamy shadow]

Is this hot takes hour again?

[sleek egret]

the distribution of knowledge today is too widespread for that sort of thing to happen again

"that sort of thing" being a civilization-wide collapse in production efficiency

[proven crest]

An uneducated comment from someone who goes to attack anyone who makes a valid point. By your logic you should quit your job and start a software company. GPT can create your software, write sales and marking material, everything.

[sleek egret]

and, just FYI, natural resources are more abundant than ever

[true harness]

manager doesn't imply not being able to code

[graceful mason]

I mean... Taiwan had a drought and people bought tons of stuff because they were quarantied years ago and we still haven't recovered the tech supply chain

[sleek egret]

you are doing the equivalent of seeing it rain in your town and asserting that the world will drown in water

economies are cyclical. they have been cyclical since the dawn of civilization. they always will be cyclical.

but the last 200 years has seen a remarkable shift in how economies operate. and there's no going back.

furthermore, I don't think you misunderstand just how much more efficient machine automation are than pre-industrial manual labor. we're not talking a doubling. for many tasks, machiens are more like 10x or 50x more efficient.

[graceful mason]

But what if part of that cycle is machines being too expensive? If covid and Taiwan (I.e. supply chain issues) cause massive price increases and months or years of lead time on building machines, I think it's a realistic fear for that to happen (but worse) in the future

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, they weaponized capitalism.

[fringe sphinx]

who? the romans?

[sleek egret]

for machines to become "too expensive", that would mean that essentially all knowledge of basic mechanics, chemistry and power must be lost.

[graceful mason]

Knowing how to build a machine doesn't mean anything if I can't order the parts for it, or get the manufacturer to build it

[sleek egret]

you aren't making any sense

why was there a "shortage"? it was because everyone was building at capacity. to wit, production was maxed out.

that means that many are actually receiving parts

[pseudo olive]

That's on point. Evolution is not a straight line. It's cyclical and all of this boomer/post-boomer economy momentum won't last.

[sleek egret]

if there are long delays, that means the factories are operating at capacity already

[graceful mason]

Yes they're at capacity producing parts for a limited number of products, whose to say those products are the "important" ones?

[sleek egret]

the last half century has seen the greatest increase in overall human well being in human history. it's seen the greatest drop in abject povery ever (both in raw #'s and as a %). people are richer, healthier, better fed, more educated, more free, subject to less violence, etc, etc than ever before

look around you: this is the golden age of man. it has literally never been so good for so many

[fringe sphinx]

(it's worth pointing out that the gaps between cycles have grown shorter and shorter)

[pseudo olive]

As somene that traveled extensively through Asia, Europe, America, South America. I don't agree with that statement haha

[sleek egret]

that's actually not true. since the introduction of fiat central banking and free currency exchange, economic cycles have become longer and less extreme

[fringe sphinx]

Hmm.

[sleek egret]

then you are ignorant of history. in 1970, something like 2/3 of the global population lived in abject poverty

[fringe sphinx]

Thank you for fueling my procrastination, now reading https://www.nber.org/research/data/us-business-cycle-expansions-and-contractions

[sleek egret]

people in asia and s.america today may be much poorer than n.america and europe but they are FAR wealthier than they were 50 years ago

especially asia

africa is next boom region. there's gonna be huge opportunities there as they join the global economy

already, african nations are regularly amongst the top 10 fastest growing economies each year

[pseudo olive]

I wish I could share material, but I don't wanna get into political mayhem rn. Just made my point already. These tech jobs won't last. It is what it is.

[sleek egret]

of course, they're starting from a very poor level... but places in east and s-east asia were just as poor 50 years ago

[pseudo olive]

Something else will trend, and life moves on

[sleek egret]

indeed. it's not like knowledge jobs have been free from obsolescence via automation before. back around 1900, there were millions of people employed as bookkeepers, who spent all day adding up numbers. then burroughs introduced the mechanical adding machine and 95% of them lost their jobs within a couple decades.

of course, the easing of that "grunt work" meant that the # of accountants and analysts increased many times over

the PC literally destroyed the job of secretary. 10's of millions were employed doing that. now they barely exist.

and most of that job destruction happened in just a decade

[near ocean]

Theyre just called "executive assistants" now

[sleek egret]

no, they don't. I started working when there were still lots of secretaries around.

[pseudo olive]

I remember something about the NASA boys begging in the street after they been laid off in 73. I still value manual labour a lot. I try to keep small skillsets as hobby/courses as a backup haha

[sleek egret]

AI tools will allow programmers who actually know what they're doing to become more productive. IMO, if your'e afraid you'll lose your job because of AI tools... well, you probably will.

c'est la vie

[pseudo olive]

"Afraid". That's too emotional. We're clearly not on our regular normal days, and anything could happen. Plus I would hate to be coding 10 years from now. A developer. Developing back pains, hemorrhoids and hernias cause I'm sitting my ass 5-8 hours a day on a computer lol. Would rather be a bit out there. That's what the money is for anyways... Gotta rip the most and get out lol.

[sleek egret]

lol

[fringe sphinx]

i hear air traffic control pays very well.

[sleek egret]

president reagan fired them all when they went on strike in 1981

all 11,000 of them

[peak halo]

there's also a shortage of air traffic controllers, so I hear

[sleek egret]

there's always simultaneously a shortage and oversupply of everything

[eternal summit]

Is it possible to gain an internship with only having knowledge in Python?

[true harness]

depends

[eternal summit]

depends on the company or like what else?

[true harness]

everything

education, location, your level of knowledge in python (what does "only python" even mean?), if you have referrals, etc

[pseudo olive]

Hey man, I just finished redoing my cv. following your advice. Did I get it now? lol

[fringe sphinx]

I like it. FYI, you have devops twice up top. And, fix your tenses: sometimes you write present tense "writing" and sometimes past tense "maintained". Past is correct here. "Wrote", "Led", "Achieved".

[pseudo olive]

Lol, I'm insanely tired

I noticed the tense issue, literally fixing it rn

Thanks a lot man

Just one last thing, should I keep everything in the past tense always then?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[hardy blade]

I'm not attacking anyone, I've actually agreed with some of you. I'm not saying GPT can do it all now, but in the future it certainly will

[verbal pulsar]

Hello I have a career question

[fringe sphinx]

<please let it not be a "is gpt going to take our jobs"> 🙂

[verbal pulsar]

Noo

[fringe sphinx]

What's the q?

[verbal pulsar]

So I have an interview for a software quality assurance engineer associate position is that a developer role

[torpid birch]

i've been doing scripts that help my team and other teams with the workflow (IT Networking / ISP, usually implementing solutions or designing them to implement).
The scripts usually just use OOP, multithreading, sometimes requests and network libraries like netmiko.

Recently i've been moved to a position where i can just focus on this kind of tasks instead of casually doing them.

Like i said i usually just use OOP, threading, requests and network automation libraries. We have a server which i can take advantage. (Fedora)

I do know a bit about git and can do the basic stuff, i also know github but it is blocked so i will eventually use gitlab. Since i am new i still haven't found the flow to open a repo and etc... That is on my list.

What can i learn that will help me expand the horizons and make me a better Network Automation guy? (I guess this is usually called DevOps?)

Sorry for the long message :x

[fringe sphinx]

QA is not considered a "developer" role, but many QA roles involve some programming (scripts, etc)

[true harness]

is the description like a developer role?

[verbal pulsar]

No the name is software quality assurance engineer associated they told me is entry level

[true harness]

the name does not matter. check the description and requirements

[buoyant seal]

. Gotta rip the most and get out lol.
Kind of a sad attitude. Your words sound about of lack of passion / enthusiasm.
Working in a job u don't like potentially?

[verbal pulsar]

They took the job posting down

😮

What does a software quality assurance associated do?

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on the job, but do you know what QA is?

Maybe start here: https://www.glassdoor.com/Career/qa-engineer-career_KO0,11.htm and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_quality_assurance

[true harness]

the job description would tell you that

[fringe sphinx]

If you'd like our opinion on whether it's a good job: Yes, it's a good job. I know many people whose whole career was QA. I also know many software engineers who started in QA.

Some QA engineers spend their entire day coding, and are equal (in software engineering skill) to the SWE's who they work with: there's a lot of room to grow, and if you're good at it, you're highly valued.

[torpid birch]

Isn't QA like, you get new code for a feature, you try to break the code in all the ways possible, test it out some more times and aprove it so they can ship it?

[verbal pulsar]

Any interview tips, I was told is entry level and only required a bachelors degree

[torpid birch]

Well, based on your messages you should probably hit youtube to actually know what you are applying for 😄
After that try to find more info on the company you will work for (Maybe it is outsourcing so whatch out for that)

[true harness]

(read the job description)

[verbal pulsar]

I did, it had to deal with Manual and automate

[wanton birch]

Anyone here members of any useful LinkedIn groups? I keep looking for them but all are dead with no engagement.

[rotund topaz]

Never thought to look for LinkedIn groups lmk as well

[lilac quail]

Hey, Devops is a large topic! As you seem to be on the automation part, it's probably nice to look at CI/CD with Gitlab in order to know how to automate your apps build, deployment and tests.

It's also cool to check Kubernetes/Docker as these will allow you to scale and manage your applications.
IAC tools (Ansivle, Chef, Puppet...) are also a good thing to study extensively: almost all companies will use one.
Make sure you get aware of monitoring tools as well : Grafana, Kibana.
Finally add to that some shell scripting skills, and good knowledge of at least 1 cloud provider and you're good to go 🙂

[wanton birch]

I've looked for them forever and it is always inactive groups. The only activity you tend to find are people trying to promote their products/services/content while nobody else even clicks "like" on any of those posts. They all look abandoned.

[sharp belfry]

Anybody know where I can get some Internships?

[dreamy spade]

What should an attire be for an in person tech interview?

[tender frost]

Depends on the company really, but as a general rule I'd say smart casual

[proven crest]

As Tizzy said, depends on the company. Generally I'd wear a smart shirt and pants with shoes (not sneakers). If it was at a financial institution a suit might be more appropriate.

[near ocean]

For fintech i wore light blue shirt and navy blue chinos
For more general software dev i wore jeans and hoodie

[zealous path]

Mood

[zealous path]

General idea is it’s better to overdress than under

[hearty island]

LinkedIn. using terms like “software AND engineer AND intern” should do the trick or whatever variation of that you want to do

[flint wolf]

Hii guys can I have some project ideas for my resume to get internship or remote job, I have diploma in IT (no degree)

[pseudo olive]

Can anyone send good examples of solid cover letters?

It can be from chat gpt prompts too haha

[hearty island]

https://hwpi.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/hes-resume-cover-letter-guide.pdf try pages 19 and 20

[pseudo olive]

Would this work for europe?

[hearty island]

oh 🤔🤔🤔. yeah idk maybe someone from there can comment

[pseudo olive]

They are full of fluff and bs here

[hearty island]

i personally wouldn’t use chat gpt for a cover letter(i don’t like the writing style it sounds too robotic)

i’ll do some more searching. will let you know what i find

[pseudo olive]

Thanks man, I'm searching as well. Just not clear what they want. Would nice to have people showing what worked for them here

[fringe sphinx]

Cover letters are contentious. I never read them.

[pseudo olive]

You in Europe?

[fringe sphinx]

There’s always one interviewee who shows up wearing a suit. (Who I find hilarious, because they look like that reportofthewek dude)

[fringe sphinx]

No, US

[pseudo olive]

Yeah, that's the thing. In America it's different haha

[fringe sphinx]

Europe is a made up place anyway

[pseudo olive]

You gotta be from the family here haha

Hate how the recruiting process works here. Always did.

In the states/south america everything is much easier

[fringe sphinx]

Really? It’s terrible here too

[hearty island]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/johnconnolly058_john-connolly-pmp-resume-activity-6978364442401009666-QBJy?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop what do we think of this guy's resume?

i'm trying to improve my resume

[pseudo olive]

Idk, my mates that moved there had no issues. Depends on the state maybe?

[fringe sphinx]

Im used to looking at technical resumes, not project managers, so it immediately strikes me as wordy.

[hearty island]

mmhm

[fringe sphinx]

But, being project management, perhaps that’s appropriate: you want someone with good communication skills and full sentences.

[hearty island]

there is a PM discord server i'm part of but they legit said my resume is good and i don't think it is

[fringe sphinx]

“Perfect is the enemy of the good’

[hearty island]

that's true, but shouldn't i always be trying to improve my resume?

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, didn’t we think it was good too?

[hearty island]

you said something about it having to be more clear it was project management related iirc

[pseudo olive]

How long you been applying?

[hearty island]

well rn i'm not since i graduate in may 2024

so i'm just trying to fix my resume now so i have a more successful time then

[near ocean]

In the EU, never wrote a cover letter, never read a cover letter either because applicants dont write them

[true harness]

i've written 2. both times, no response. therefore, cover letters cause rejections

[hearty island]

i wrote one for AON once i was so down bad

[near ocean]

The maths check out

[pseudo olive]

So, no cover letter for the EU then? Lol

Does that apply to switzerland too? Lol. Man, I hope I make it. This one is important

[hearty island]

(i got rejected from AON too) lol

[pseudo olive]

Where you based? You normally have to go through the whole Assessment Center bs here?

The UK was hell to get a job, I have hopes here is slightly more human

[near ocean]

London, no weird aptitude BS for me either or any of my friends
It was 5min phone call, technical interview, HR phone call, offer, both times

[pseudo olive]

Congrats on that man

I didn't even make it to the call here so far. They just vanished

1 month already

[true harness]

it's quite strange to have so many people ghost you if you have an interview scheduled

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I’ve never ghosted anyone for a scheduled interview, that’s just weird

But I imagine recruiters can screw up

[true harness]

yeah but like, 8 times? and no reschedule?

[pseudo olive]

Right? Yeah man, that stuff is taking a toll on me

[hearty island]

i added a technical skills section at the bottom

[pseudo olive]

4 times. The other 4 were like "We're really interested in you and wanna schedule a call". When I said yes, they never responded back

Emails also ignored

[hearty island]

yikes

[pseudo olive]

Man, I lost a really good one in Zurich. Big bank, big salary. Maybe it's because I don't have a degree... They see me as a second citizen here for that matter

[hearty island]

not having a degree makes it substantially harder

[pseudo olive]

Last case scenario I will take manual labor and just start my design business

[pseudo olive]

Yeah, especially in Europe... It's just ridiculous

I dropped out in the second year of my BA. Still have a FAANG on my cv, with very good performance.

[hearty island]

damn rejected from PNC (these are old apps they just processed)

honestly it might be a good sign i keep getting rejection emails back from big companies instead of being ghosted

[pseudo olive]

That's actually true. I'm straight up being ghosted on every single application. All of them have the pending status. Like, they don't even respect me to a point of telling me I was rejected lol

[hearty island]

it makes me have hope that when i apply in september i have a better chance

[fringe sphinx]

For what it's worth, I like bullets 3 and 4 of your most recent job more than bullets 1 and 2. For tracking system: what tools did you use? For RCA, what tools?

[hearty island]

tracking system i used PowerBI and i created a bunch of charts/pivot tables so when senior problem managers fill out a microsoft forms survey, the tracking system is filled with data about their overall performance

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, totally put PowerBI down!

[hearty island]

for RCA we used this tool called ServiceNow

[fringe sphinx]

Oh man, you gotta put both of those. Those are both very popular and relevant

[pseudo olive]

Yeah, almost all tech jobs ask for ServiceNow. I've worked with it a lot in production

[hearty island]

"Reviewed an average of 20 significant incidents per month and developed actionable plans to address systemic
problems and implement mitigation strategies.
• Collaborated with cross-functional teams to prevent repeat problems, resulting in a 30% reduction in recurring
incidents in Q1.
• Developed a comprehensive tracking system using Power BI that improved the documentation proficiency of
individual problem managers by 30%, reflecting their enhanced competency in applying problem-solving practices
and documenting appropriate corrective actions.
• Conducted regular root cause analysis sessions using ServiceNow and identified common trends, resulting in a 25%
decrease in recurring problems over the course of a year"

[fringe sphinx]

my opinion (of course): bullet 3 and 4 I think should be on top, and bullet 3 could be a little shorter. A lot of corporate speak in there.

[hearty island]

will do. thanks for the help!

[pseudo olive]

Are jobs that were posted 1 week ago already done with?

Like, is it just a dead post at this point? You should always take 24 hours/2 days posts?

[hearty island]

i filter by jobs posted a week ago. imo 24 hours filter limits too much

[pseudo olive]

Got it. Man, I hope I still have a chance with these

[random pilot]

Is fluent python a good book for intermediates

[pseudo olive]

Very few job posts lately. The good stuff is becoming scarce

[hearty island]

"Enhanced problem managers’ tracking and documentation by 30% with Power BI, optimizing problem-solving
practices and corrective action recording."

[hearty island]

what industries of companies are you going for?

[pseudo olive]

DevOps/Linux/Mainframe. Mainly banks and consultancy agencies

[hearty island]

try for healthcare companies, might as well vary the industry

[pseudo olive]

There are very few here in Europe. It's mostly banks and agencies

[hearty island]

oh

[pseudo olive]

As well as multinational companies

[hearty island]

here in the US healthcare is booming lol my internship is at a healthcare company

[pseudo olive]

Haha I reckon. All America really

I'm applying for the Tesla factory rn. Shitty job, but would look good on the cv

The catch here is that the minimum wage in Switzerland is €4000. And the cost of living in europe is €700. So I honestly just need any job lol

[hearty island]

yeah i heard switzerland is very expensive. sorry you're in that situation

[pseudo olive]

Work there, don't live there. I'm in the border haha

[hearty island]

ohh

[pseudo olive]

That's why I'm safe for now

[hearty island]

i have an appointment w my career counselor at my college today. let's see if she has any suggestions

[pseudo olive]

Beware of these dudes, got very poor advice from them back when I was at school lol

[hearty island]

i know last time they fucked up my resume so badly they messed up all the spacing and stuff

just hoping it's better this time

[fringe sphinx]

Fwiw, get lots of feedback, but make your own decision. There's no "right" answer.

[hearty island]

that’s true. i’m also trying to get feedback from the recruiter who got me to my current internship. we have a good relationship

[fringe sphinx]

This is minor nitpicks but: "Reviewed an average of 20..." is wordy. Maybe: "Reviewed top 1% of critical ServiceNow incidents to identify root cause and propose an actionable mitigation plan."

[hearty island]

that sounds better

[fringe sphinx]

I have a long career in powerpoint. 🙂

[hearty island]

on my interview they asked me how well i know powerpoint, funny enough i haven't had to make a single deck yet

[fringe sphinx]

The business world speaks in bullets.

[hearty island]

yes it does

[true harness]

there was this whole thing with the columbia space shuttle accident and shit powerpoint slides

[fringe sphinx]

See, most of your bullets bury what you did in the middle or end, or just have a lot of fluff that doesn't tell me anything. Like: "Collaborated with cross-functional teams to prevent repeat problems...".

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, edward tufte did a whole thing on it https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB

[hearty island]

"Prevented repeat problems, resulting in a 30% reduction in recurring incidents in Q1" does that sound better?

[fringe sphinx]

How tho?

[hearty island]

takes out the fluff?

[fringe sphinx]

But how did you prevent repeat problems?

[hearty island]

by implementing a consistent problem management process?

[fringe sphinx]

Did you create the process, or only follow it?

[hearty island]

followed it

[fringe sphinx]

"Implemented new problem management process, created from prior root cause analyses, which reduced recurring incidents by 30%.". Just an idea.

[hearty island]

those sound better

man i wonder why my school doesn't use LATEX

[fringe sphinx]

2 and 3 seem like the same thing

[true harness]

why not just merge them. blah blah top 1% of incidents to identify root cause, leading to bah blah 30% reduction

[fringe sphinx]

I'd take a step back and say: 1. Developed PowerBI reports.. ie (but not exactly) "Using PowerBI, developed automated corrective action recommendations for problem managers, targeting the X most common recurring problems. ". 2. Conducted Root Cause Analysis from ServiceNow. 3. Developed Actionable Mitigation Plans. 4 Implemented the new process... etc.

Yah, it's a bit redundant, as it is right now.

I do like the bullets more tho... they say a lot more than they did.

[dim bay]

is this kind of main/official server of python?

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, that's probably a question for #python-discussion

[hearty island]

i do agree that 2 and 3 sound very similar

damn i even heard back from Lenovo with a rejection

[hearty island]

i'll take this back to the career counselor and ask how i can make it less repetitive

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, also, don't feel compelled to have 4 bullets. You've only been there a few months.

[hearty island]

1 month iirc

[fringe sphinx]

Like, that's a great resume... PowerBI + ServiceNow are two highly relevant skills.

[hearty island]

thanks 🙂

[hearty island]

i wouldn't say a lot of project managers use power bi so maybe that's a plus

[summer roost]

It's honestly not that useful a skill. I use it only for resumes, and I only need to know enough to fill in nice looking templates that someone else designed

Also, it's "LaTeX" 😄

[hearty island]

oh my bad sorry. knew i was spelling it wrong

[radiant moon]

to a first approximation: nobody uses LaTeX

[fringe sphinx]

and emacs. (I'm still bitter about this one... all my years in college getting good at emacs...)

[true harness]

.latex $\LaTeX$

[radiant moon]

Yeah I use Emacs but I acknowledge that that's weird.

[true harness]

🙄 permissions schmermisions

[sterile mulch]

I don't undersand GitHub's UI

[fringe sphinx]

How so?

[sterile mulch]

It's got really complex terms I'm not aware of and its UI is also very crammed(according to me).

[true harness]

is this career related? someone can probably help in an off topic channel

[sterile mulch]

It does help you publish your work and makes it public. So in a way, it can boost your career.

[wanton birch]

Of course it does. Just like learning Python also helps. But we don’t use that excuse to discuss learning Python on this channel. Maybe try asking your questions in #tools-and-devops

[torpid birch]

Thanks for the answear! Sorry for the wait was working.
I will need to implement everything from scratch since my department has nothing configured for this kind of stuff.
Seems like a neat project lol

[lilac quail]

Yes 👍
Start slow and iterate 😄 This is definitely not a 1 man job

[torpid birch]

Gotta ask fora pay rise tho lol

[wanton birch]

@sweet vessel got another treat for you. Here’s indeed sending me job it matched based on “no experience”. It really isnt a useful tool for any reliable notification.

Read what it says in the description first

[hearty island]

i saw a machine learning position for netflix making $390K

[vapid jay]

has that alert ever worked for you? i assume its just keywords so my alerts right now are like 'python'

[sleek egret]

I suspect with that sort of salary, you'll be expected to do much more than use a library API or three

[hearty island]

agreed

[true harness]

doesn't netflix not give a lot of stock so their cash is higher?

[deft herald]

Damn

[wanton birch]

No. They mostly send scammy emails that make it look like the employers are actually interested in you. So I disabled it all. I searched for jobs with no experience so they randomly started emailing me irrelevant crap claiming it is no experience. They are dodgy as hell! Both dodgy and incompetent.

[true harness]

is it common in the US to include location on your resume? a recruiter gave me feedback that i should include it

[radiant moon]

I have my address

[lilac quail]

they want to make shows with generative AI 😄

[gaunt wren]

can i get started as a freelance web dev knowing only front-end or do i have to be a fullstack dev

[radiant moon]

I guess that would depend on the people who hire you for your first job

[sleek egret]

yes, it's essentially a requirement

[true harness]

oh

[hearty island]

lol marvel admitted to using generative ai for the credits of secret wars

[sleek egret]

the music?

[true harness]

how granular? I'm thinking just City, State

[sleek egret]

that's probably fine. worrying about your privacy when applying for a job is sorta silly though

[true harness]

mostly just trying to save space lol

[gaunt wren]

.

[true harness]

presumably there are freelance tasks with only frontend. you could easily search for that

[hearty island]

the career counselor is saying that laTEX isn't parseable by ATS? is that true?

like the pdf you get from laTEX?

[sleek egret]

that is almost certainly true

[true harness]

not true. mine was perfectly fine (and it's a fairly normal template)

[hearty island]

is there a free ATS parser i can use to test my resume

[true harness]

yes, there are many online, but it's difficult to gauge how it will actually be parsed by real ATS. they won't put their algorithms on the internet

[hearty island]

so am i getting screwed over because i'm using a laTEX pdf?

i thought it was fine to use sigh

[true harness]

I just said that probably wasn't the case

[hearty island]

oh, right ok. didn't see that sorry

[hearty island]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LaTeX/comments/3nr2vn/how_can_i_ensure_that_my_latex_resume_is_readable/ the first comment has something about making laTEX resumes ATS friendly with two lines

oh shit that's already there in Jake's Resume

so i should be fine then... right?

she was saying how the text wasn't highlightable and you could only drag the page after downloading the PDF

i used this website here: https://jobcloud-hrtech.com/en/test-now/ and it parsed pretty well

[radiant moon]

or, you know, you could use plain text

[true harness]

it looks bad

[small geode]

I wouldn't be that concerned with looks, truthfully

[true harness]

looks don't matter that much, compared to content, yeah. but they do matter

[small geode]

Sure. You can make it look just fine with a Word document though

Instead of traversing this unknown of "can I use this and not worry about an ATS not being able to read it?"

[true harness]

word isn't plaintext though? /shrug

[small geode]

Word isn't LaTeX, correct

My point is it's so common that it is known to be supported

[true harness]

yeah that's true. i just use latex because i'm familiar with it. and most people suggest submitting a pdf even if you're using word

[hearty island]

so i should just use word?

[true harness]

well, if you really want it to be parsed, you can just submit a plaintext file

[hearty island]

that looks terrible tho

ugh i wish i never did that appointment now i'm gonna have that doubt in my head for the rest of my apps

[true harness]

you can always ask the centene recruiters to see how your resume is parsed by their ATS

[hearty island]

you're smart thanks idk why i didn't think of that

[hearty island]

idk if they'd do that for me tho

[hearty island]

huh, i went to workday and put in my laTEX resume pdf and it parsed fine. what was the career counselor on about?

[smoky quest]

as long as it's text (and not an image) and that it's single column, you will be fine

[buoyant seal]

site indeed.com, offers ATS advices

[hearty island]

so even if it’s a laTEX pdf it’s fine?

[smoky quest]

the thing reading the pdf has no idea it's from LaTeX

[hearty island]

ohhh

[smoky quest]

it's parsing a PDF

[hearty island]

so i must be getting rejected bc of my graduation date then… as we’ve said a million times

i have to stop being so anxious

[fringe sphinx]

ironically, that'll make you a great PM.

[hearty island]

why did i go back to that career counselor in the first place

absolute meme

[wanton birch]

I took you guys's advice and stopped writing nice cover letter for every single application. That obviously resulted in a tonne more applications sent out in the last few weeks. The downside is that I have to cope with a lot more daily rejections nowadays. It is like sadness x 3.0. lol

[hearty island]

lol i get daily rejections too 😃

[wanton birch]

That is to be expected. I was talking about the increased volume. Managed to get the rate up!

Got another rejection for that same role. The same automated message. Well I tried!

[pseudo olive]

Mate, don't say that lol

My strategy now is slack and going to Switzerland apply in person. I'm just done with this bs. Can't handle seeing another "BA in Astrophysics" with zero skills getting hired for the same position at the same company while I'm being ghosted.

[true harness]

slack...?

[hearty island]

^

[pseudo olive]

Yeah, I'm getting access to some tech servers. Recruiters reach you out directly. Seems promising

There are servers based on region too

[sleek egret]

thing is, the school's reputation is almost as important as the major

perhaps that's not fair, but it is what it is

[pseudo olive]

Yeah, I know how it is. I was the only one hired at my company that was a drop out. There were lots like that with a useless unrelated degree. And then you have to carry these people on you back because they are what is written on their profile. Inexperienced for the role and most of the time lazy. They just have that random degree there and got hired because they're friends with someone in the company.

[vapid jay]

I wanted do this (markdown actually) but I always felt like HR people would strongly dislike it for no reason in particular, although they often want a pdf

[radiant moon]

in my experience, they prefer Word

[wanton birch]

What are you guys talking about!?! You guys seriously send an MS Word document with your job applications? I thought pdfs were the global standardised format for documents that you don't want others to edit.

[dreamy spade]

Anybody have any tips to prepare for a round 2 in-person interview?

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Remember to slip the jab!

[abstract lark]

What's better, a Wage job or a Contract job?

[summer roost]

They each have pros and cons. What country are we talking about?

[near jewel]

is there any like, actual general?

[summer roost]

!off-topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:
• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[true harness]

what's the format

[harsh river]

meanwhiles Guidos resume https://gvanrossum.github.io/Resume.html

[pine sleet]

I think when you're experienced and established enough you really don't have to prove yourself to anyone lol

[summer roost]

The creator of arguably the world's most popular programming language doesn't need to play by the same rules as your average developer

[peak halo]

James Gosling can indeed do whatever he wants /s

[harsh river]

i was on his website and saw his resume, found it hilarious it looks it was made in the 60s while people here argue back and forth on what fonts and spacing to use on their resumes etc

[pine sleet]

too based

[dense fiber]

this is the biggest flex yet

can't link his vanity plate

[harsh river]

i saw that too

[crisp stream]

is it PYTHON

[sharp belfry]

"*Use the primary email address associated with your LinkedIn account
*Use your name and photo"

What does this mean ? Is this safe?

Context--> I recently applied for an internship and have to do an assessment on their website. It only has a sign in with LinkedIn option and this comes up after sign in.

It's not a technical internship. But the company is small, has decent base, and is in the software industry (hiring software and certifications)

Although I am not sure into non technical roles as of now. It is a good opportunity and it pays something

[dense fiber]

you're a wizard

[wicked python]

i chose to major in computer science bcus i liked the classes i took in high school and i was pretty good at it, better than anyone else in my classes (i went to a shitty highschool where nobody really cared) but now i've got this evil horror that i dont actually know shit about programming and i'm a big dummy making a bad decision

i guess i'm going to college to learn stuff and figure things out

i know ya'll don't know me, i'm just saying things

[upper flume]

just saying things is oke

[dense fiber]

things

[upper flume]

maybe speak with a professional at university about your doubts. it's very normal and can help a lot

[wicked python]

i really ought to do this. just sit down and talk to one of the counselors or something

[upper flume]

yea just make an appointment. maybe you can look at the reasons you chose this major also

i mean if you have good reasons i wouldn't worry. i switched 3 times and still made it

[blissful tapir]

who know html and can help me

[ripe ridge]

what kind of homeworks, projects do they usually give you in unis?

[fringe sphinx]

If you ever read the Reddit programming or csmajors forums, you’ll see many posts like this. Imposter Syndrome. Most of us went to college knowing little about programming. There’s a reason college is four years, and not a 6 month bootcamp.

[coarse dust]

Hi @sharp belfry please can you share more on this with me via DM. I'm interested 🙏

[near ocean]

Theyre not trying to recruit anyone

[coarse dust]

Alright.. I am currently seeking for an internship too.

[hearty island]

good because i really like how my resume looks

she really had me worrying like that for nothing

[hearty island]

oh the recruiter said yes to parsing it for me btw

[true harness]

great

[hearty island]

also i just realized how many of my bullets are missing periods on my resume 😦

[hearty island]

i have good news! the recruiter parsed my resume through ATS and it went through perfectly

so my college counselor had absolutely zero idea what she was talking about and stressed the fuck out of me

[proven crest]

Does anyone here think AI could put developers out of the job?

I spent around an hour this afternoon trying to use only GPT, Bing and Bard to create a simple script to unzip files, rename them and move them to another location. It couldn't get over the first step (It was extracting the folder structure instead of just the files) I tried being specific, pointing out the mistakes and even suggesting the fix, but it wouldn't get it. The closest it got was unzipping everything, then moving it to the files I wanted out of the folders.

So if anyones even remotely concerned, don't be.

AI is super useful though, sometimes when I cba to sift through docs I ask it a question and get a direct answer. Its also really useful to be able to have a conversation with it to get a better understanding of something.

[hearty island]

also thanks to everyone for helping me on my resume. y'all have been far more helpful than my college's own career center

[dense fiber]

when i first started learning, i did. I had trouble with aiohttp library, so out of desperation i asked gpt, it spews the boilerplate like it was nothing

async def get_url():
  async with aiohttp.ClientSession() as session:
    async with session.get('mysite.com') as myresponse:
        save = myresponse.text

at the time, i was amazed and a bit scared, but didn't let it get into my head.

but the more I code, the more i realized that coding requires more than just a boilerplate. Working with JSON files, slicing into dicts, list, and OOP for a relatively short amount of time has lessen my concerns on that perspective.

[true harness]

that code does not look very functional

[dense fiber]

exactly

[hearty island]

so the recruiter i was speaking to basically said taleo, workday, and greenhouse should be able to parse my resume just fine

so everything’s fine, it’s most likely the graduation date over anything

just gotta keep grinding through my capm

[proven crest]

Yeah I think new developers may get disheartened and worried if they see a hard leetcode problem being solved instantly, but in reality it’s just regurgitating the answer. AI is probably good (and will get much better) at solving logical problems though. But that doesn’t mean developers will be out of the job, the same way as calculators don’t put mathematicians out of a job.

[dense fiber]

one of the challenges, i feel, in developing something presentable is that the learning curve is never steady, and when you feel like it's climbing its going to be an exponential hill. I can see why many people starts early and ends early

[delicate bane]

obligatory routine request for pinned post about AI something something dev jobs. that is all

kat still put it pretty well that one time (few months ago iirc)

[dense fiber]

on things like leetcode and codewars, i know they're useful but i just can't really get into them. Most of the problems are solved in place, as is the nature of quizzes.

I massively prefer just making something, a product, a feature, anything. It does feel good when I finish a problem on leetcode or codewars, but it just stays in the list of quizzes i solve on the website and serves nothing much but a trophy. at least for me

idk how i segue'd into leetcode and codewards lul but it is what it is

[proven crest]

Not sure what you mean

[delicate bane]

it was just another way of agreeing with what you said previously

[hearty island]

rejected from RSM

[delicate bane]

idk what rsm is

[hearty island]

accounting firm, for a PM position

[delicate bane]

i see

[hearty island]

it’s 100% the graduation date. hopefully i get more offers come september

[sharp yew]

anyone job hopped recently? What was your experience with the job hunt (i.e. timeline/how many interviews before offer)

[foggy creek]

Hey ! I'm looking to pursue a data analyst/data scientist career, and I would have a few questions about the tasks etc... Someone available ?

[hearty island]

would y'all say august is a good time to apply for full time jobs?

[radiant moon]

I can't imagine how the month would be relevant.

[true harness]

for new grad jobs, it is

[fringe sphinx]

What’s the question?

[fringe sphinx]

Hiring season, imo, for new grads starts around December

[hearty island]

yeah i'll reapply to RT around then

[fringe sphinx]

(For June grads). Ymmv

[hearty island]

oh i'm May

man i think my power bi project is experiencing some serious scope creep

like they want to add these new features to it but it's taking away focus from my actual internship... it's nothing to do with collecting or analyzing data or dashboard

[sour ginkgo]

Can anyone help me making my new language project by finding team members(if you know someone) or be one?

[hearty island]

rejected from fisher investments 😦

[fringe sphinx]

This discord has a no recruiting policy

[sour ginkgo]

what is that?

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[fringe sphinx]

Just a heads up, fyi

[sour ginkgo]

this is not a paid work

I am taking it as a hobby...

[fringe sphinx]

Im not a mod, doesnt matter to me, just letting you know.

[sour ginkgo]

I don't think I am advertising....

[sour ginkgo]

Ok thanks...

[lilac quail]

Don't ask to ask. What's your questions?

[lilac quail]

Really long timeline. First call somewhere in June last year, 5 interviews including 2 technical tests, first day was in November 😅

Probably 8-10 weeks between the process start and the offer in my case.

[pastel thunder]

Hey ******, I like your work so far, and we can have a chat. Feel free to ping me at ********.
They want me to call or WhatsApp?

[hearty island]

sus

[lilac quail]

Whatsapp to schedule a call at best

[sharp yew]

there are some weird recruiters out there, I had one dude insist on getting drinks with me

[hearty island]

i had a couple recruiters just call me directly with no email or warning beforehand. imagine if i didn't pick up lol

[pastel thunder]

lmao

[pastel thunder]

ok

[hearty island]

like i deadass had someone from KPMG call me out of the blue

[pastel thunder]

wanted to kidnap or what. sounds like a offer baiting

[hearty island]

shoulda saved her number lol

[sharp yew]

no i think he was a legit recruiter

[pastel thunder]

i always like to atleast revise things in recruiters' linkedin skill set, direct call is a nightmare for me

[gritty rivet]

These parasites think they can charm you into accepting jobs

[pastel thunder]

whos resisting in todays market, though.

[sharp yew]

Is the job market actually that rough?

I know there have been a lot of layoffs but the unemployment rate remains pretty low which suggests that people are bouncing back super fast

[hearty island]

jobs from Dice lol

[pastel thunder]

ccomparatively yes, it is kinda harder

[hearty island]

Dice jobs are hell. never put your resume on dice. it's pretty dicey. 😤

[pastel thunder]

what happen?

[hearty island]

lots of calls for bs contract positions

[pastel thunder]

oh I see.

[runic ginkgo]

hi

[hearty island]

hello

[pastel thunder]

Hi, This is ****,
I recently applied for MLE role at *****. Thank you for showing interest in my work. I am attaching my resume for your reference.
i wrote this. should i also ask when they are free?

[sleek egret]

yar

[hearty island]

🏴‍☠️

[sleek egret]

avast matey

[hearty island]

the CAPM course is so dry

i blame the PMBOK. someone should make it more entertaining

[sleek egret]

what is CAPM and PMBOK?

[pastel thunder]

now tick is blue, but no reply

[hearty island]

Certified Associate in Project Management
Project Management Body of Knowledge

[sleek egret]

oh

[hearty island]

yessir. currently 24% of the way through

[sleek egret]

you should try for you Series 7 and get a CFA too

then you can manage financial projects

[hearty island]

yeah i was thinking of doing that actually. this way i can segue into an investment banking role for PM

the CFA is really fucking hard

[sleek egret]

not sure how well being a PM in ibanking pays but it's definately a thing. there are so many moving parts to some financing deeals

[hearty island]

around $170K to the low 200

[sleek egret]

that's not too bad

[hearty island]

not at all compared to my flimsy initial salary of $75K

[sleek egret]

if that's your target, I'd suggest learning more about the regulatory frameworks. they structure a lot of what needs to be done, how it's done, who does it, who can know what, who sees what, etc

[hearty island]

wdym by regulatory fws?

[sleek egret]

the work in investment banking is fairly highly regulated.

[hearty island]

right

[sleek egret]

the laws/rules govern how investments are structured, who can invest, what documents must get generated, who must read what, who must approve what, etc, etc

for example, let's say a company in the US wants to do an IPO. the investment banking team will coordinate the structuring of that. which involves everything from audits to legal documents to exchange filings to finding lead investors for the offering.

let's focus on the last bit, there are laws about who you can solicit, you have to do a "roadshow", you have to qualify potential investors, perform KYC, etc. and for foreign investors, you probably have to deal with their nation's laws.

[fringe sphinx]

(Insert snark about vc’s playing deceptive games with the books)

[sleek egret]

there are shit ton of moving parts. any deal will involve like a dozen law firms, accountants, auditors, regulators, exchange officials, booking meetings, client people (execs, PR, finance, etc), etc, etc

even for something seemingly as simple as document distribution there are rules about who can see what. who must see what. you need to track everyone who sees anything. all communications must be archived. etc, etc.

[sleek egret]

so you can probably see why project managers are a thing in investment banking 🙂

[hearty island]

defo

i'm 27% of the way through my CAPM course

[sleek egret]

if you go there, be prepared to pull 80 hour weeks during crunch times. and they'll still call you a slacker 🙂

[hearty island]

which is why i'm hesitant

[foggy creek]

@fringe sphinx @lilac quail In your training journey, what kind of exercize did you do to learn python, I finished a big python course, and I don't have enough knowledge and experience to start a SQL one, so what are your python exercizes to learn data analysis, and all ?

[sleek egret]

you first need to know statistics to do data analysis

[foggy creek]

I did an economic bachelor and used SAS for example to apply statistics to a database

[fringe sphinx]

My Python journey is not going to be helpful, as it was preceded by decades of programming in other languages.

[foggy creek]

The advices I get is just to start my own project but I don't have a lot of ideas

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, then:

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[foggy creek]

are you a data analyst ?

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, yah. Among many things.

[buoyant seal]

different in comparison to school.
More independent time of learning is assumed by default for everything.
If u don't complete and get behind across multiple disciplines -> u can get kicked out of uni

Usually we had several kinda of homeworks

1. homework until next practical lesson (like in school)
2. homework which is laboratory work and must be completed during semester. U are able to defend and to try passing it during each practical lesson. U need to finish minimum amount of lab works (sometimes minimum total score is asked) or even all of them to get access to exams
3. project assignment. Must be completed in half of a semester or even in entire semester. Can be requiring other assignments completed for access. Can be requirement for access to exams. Usually it is just bigger laboratory work, with often bigger documentation footprint
4. sometimes happened assignment for theoretical knowledge. Usually they were all on your own responsibility and could not even checked at all for completion.
5. often enough we had project assignment and lab works meant to be done in pairs, or even in 3 persons or even 5. Group works

Tldr: u can spend entire days doing different lab works and assignments
Average time to complete one lab work assignment varied around few days at least.
Some could be done faster, some even slower.
Usually laboratory work assignments were taking most of time during semester

P.s. experience in country where i went to university can be different from yours

[lilac quail]

As already adviced, I found my own projects. Find something you'd like to get data from and analyze it, you'll get even more than just Data Analyst skills. Looking back I think the most interesting projects for me were around IoT and sensors: I basically spread those sensors around my house and implemented a whole data pipeline to get this data, structure it, send it both to a SQL db for analysis work and to a time-series database for visualisation. The most important thing is to find some data you are actually interested about. I liked home automation!
SQL honestly doesn't require anything to start learning it, just go for it and you won't regret; it's usually considered quite easy and you'll get some satisfaction seeing your queries giving nice results 🙂

[foggy creek]

I get it but where do I learn the technical skills, analysis etc.. to practice ?

[foggy creek]

And ok I'll do that for SQL, thanks for the answer

[lilac quail]

If you start working with data you like, you'll have analysis problems all the time. You'll want to represent data in different ways, aggregate it on different scales, etc

[foggy creek]

I'm really sorry but I'm a litteral noobie except the course I take, I think I understand what you're telling me, but I would need examples, and courses to understand the "different ways", and all

Or maybe I already learnt the skills but I don't understand how to use it and the potential they can have in a technical analysis

[lilac quail]

If you're asking for courses or books, I'm not the right person. That's why I would advice making your own project. Either from data you collect yourself or a dataset that you find on the web. With a project you'll have to use what you learned to create valuable insights from this data, and that's when you'll get the experience you seem to be looking for

I remember crawling through Kaggle data exploratory notebooks too, I guess that's still useful to check how people explore the data and derive valuable insights from it

[unreal turtle]

Has anyone been through winter process before?

[fringe sphinx]

Two answers: !resources and !projects are good resources

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[wicked python]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[median copper]

What to do when you can't find job for very long time?

I have portfolio with my github but it's still not enough free projects

I even now switching to Rust/Go just because there is too many supply of python devs

[sleek egret]

change job hunting strategies, be more flexible, add skills, change locations

[wanton birch]

Nobody ever says this but maybe do something entrepreneurial.

[true harness]

there's a reason no one suggests it

[wanton birch]

Probably because it is harder

[small geode]

Not just harder. You'd need resources that only a job would help build to

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Sometimes you need that. Some form of capital helps a great deal. Entrepreneurial stuff is high risk high reward.

[true harness]

well, the bigger thing is, if you can't get anyone to even hire you, how are you gonna get them to buy your product

[small geode]

People forget high risk does not mean there will be a high reward. As psv just mentioned, good luck selling a product if you can't sell yourself as an employee. Even if it does turn out, it may not be that successful.

[uncut quest]

What skills would a QA analyst need? What does their typical work day look like?

[gritty rivet]

Titles don't tell you much, but basically familiarity with the relevant languages and tools. Depends on the exact role, company, etc. Look around on Indeed and LinkedIn to see what people are listing in relevant job ads and resumes. You can also web search and read articles like this for days: https://www.simplilearn.com/quality-analyst-job-description-article

[light radish]

What do jobs/companies mean when they ask for AWS experience from a backend python developer.

What does AWS exp mean in general. I feel like its such a broad field...

[pulsar drum]

At the least they probably mean experience in the permissions model, networking, and monitoring in AWS.

[pastel thunder]

how to answer:
why do you want to work at our specific startup even though you have an offer from other startup?

[near ocean]

Read their "values" and say something about how you align more with x set of values than y

[pastel thunder]

he was the kind of guy to say: "dont tell me those things, i know its BS."
he said something like that when i answered why i want to do machine learning job

[wanton birch]

Anyone here (from an English speaking country) work in a setting where people use multiple different languages among themselves?

[tender frost]

Yep. I've got colleagues from Spain/Argentina that regularly speak Spanish to each other when the conversation doesn't pertain to the whole team

Same for Italian and (some form of) Chinese

Why are you asking?

[wanton birch]

Was just trying to see how common or uncommon that might be.

[pastel thunder]

very common

[near ocean]

Probably more common in europe than NA

[wanton birch]

I’ve noticed that people who speak multiple languages find it the most natural to switch languages based on who they are talking to. Funny enough, this language switching somehow agitates those who only speak one language. Even if they aren’t the ones being spoken to, it can make people feel a certain way and how negatively they feel depends on the number of languages they personally speak. The Lower that number, the higher the chances they feel bad.

[buoyant seal]

speaking not in English makes conversation not inclusive 😦
i dislike a bit when at my work people speak in French. Google translate only can do so much.

[sudden shoal]

But sometime we have to switch base on repect their primary language too.

Sounds weird maybe.

[buoyant seal]

you disregard all other people which don't know language X then
keep non English conversations to private messages (that's how i do it when i speak in not English)

[brazen island]

Multilingual workplaces are becoming the norm here. I try and speak the common denominator at all times so as not to exclude anyone.

[wanton birch]

Yeah. I personally try to always speak English to make sure anyone can join the conversation if they want to. Nobody ever does but that’s up to them.

[wanton birch]

Are you from French Canada?

[buoyant seal]

i am from Russia, living in Serbia, working for France, while getting paid from Cyprus 🤣
i have three lingual environment at job at least, English + secondary languages Russian and French.

[wanton birch]

Oh wow!

[near ocean]

Dont you have people speak that harsh, ugly almost cypriot dialect?

Smh im allowed to say that, im from there

And our QA guys are from there too and they try to talk to me in greek and it sounds terrible having to mix in english for the tech stuff

[buoyant seal]

nah. i don't have to deal at this point of time with anyone Greek/Cypriot speaking.
just French, Russian and English. (Hehe and often Serbian due to location)
🙈 i need to learn Serbian better

[wanton birch]

Is it similar to Russian?

[buoyant seal]

Yeah, quite so. even without knowing Serbian language, i can read its short phrases and can guess meaning just because i know Russian language.
than more i live here, then more getting used to it and more can guess correctly
Serbian, Ukranian, Polish, Bulgarian, Slovenian, Russian and other similar languages are all having same Slavic roots

[pastel thunder]

The job posting mentioned TC would be somewhere between X to 1.33*X , after having some talk founder told be over call, they can offer me 0.65*X.
Is this a joke? I didnt even tell them my current TC. I said i will get back in evening, i need to think.
In evening i said i expect 0.80*X to 0.90*X.
Now why the fuck did they mention range of X to 1.33*X if they cant even offer the lower limit. And all this was befpre interview.

[wanton birch]

Do you have other offers elsewhere?

[buoyant seal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ there is no limits to human greed. Or u are matching their expectations for X only at 0.65x capacity

[pastel thunder]

yup

[near ocean]

Respectfully decline

[pastel thunder]

pretty sure i am a good match, i checked the skillset and their work

[wanton birch]

Then go for those offers and maybe waste this lying company’s time. Make sure you never say no and never sign the contract but take up their time. That’d be my punishment for bait and switch liars.

[buoyant seal]

then greed 🙂 greed is good. (for them)

[buoyant seal]

they could have set X to mislead people and attracting skillset higher than they wish to pay for (0.65x)

[pastel thunder]

How is the chance of them getting back with offer, somewhere in between?

[near ocean]

Would you take the offer if it was somewhere in between?

[pastel thunder]

yes, it would be resonable to take that, compared to other offers i have

And in-case they dont, what can i do, so that they are prompted to make an offer in between.

[near ocean]

I dont think anything would help, they've shown they go back on their word

[pastel thunder]

and was i greedy to ask for 0.8*x when 0.7*x was also reasonable? I did that thinking they will come with a number in between and it would be around what i needed.

[near ocean]

No, you applied when they were offering x, them going back on it is whats greedy

You should think about whether you actually want to work for them, unless you really need the money

[hearty island]

is this the employer who contacted you through whatsapp?

[pastel thunder]

first time through job portal: gave the mobile to contact them, then scheduled a meet over WhatsApp
Then called me 3 hours before scheduled time, to directly discuss why i am imterested, the work, then directly the offer.
discussing offer seemed to be his main agenda behind calling.
Now at scheduled time, he asked me what i thought about TC. Interview didnt even took place, lmao

[hearty island]

that's just confusing. serious red flags

[near ocean]

Dump em

[pastel thunder]

yeah, i think even job security will be an issue working with them.
They are like : select Candidate after sorting by salary

hope after making first switch, it will be normal.

[hearty island]

thanks

[true harness]

that's not a no past internship issue, that's a skill issue. interns make more than that

[hearty island]

i think it's his resume, tbh

[hearty island]

i make more as an intern rn

[pastel thunder]

100/hr is average for full time role in USA, right?

[hearty island]

that's $208K a year

[pastel thunder]

so 50 -60 should be avg for sde maybe

[hearty island]

it depends on your area

[true harness]

maybe in a specific location, but not across the US

wait, are you talking about the average of all jobs with that 100/hr number?

[gritty rivet]

Glassdoor and indeed give US national average for SDE around $116k/year. That's across all experience levels. For someone without much experience that sounds a little high but still very possible in high COL areas

[hearty island]

"The standardized test requirement is waived for applicants to MBA programs who meet the following criteria: (1) have earned a four-year bachelor’s degree or master’s degree from a regionally accredited college or university in the U.S. (2) with a final cumulative GPA of 3.30 or higher on a four-point scale. Degrees graded on other scales are not eligible." huh, seems like i can bypass this because my gpa is a 3.67

[gritty rivet]

Technically sure, but if the default candidate has an MBA and you don't, you better shine in every other way

[pastel thunder]

no no, sde

[brazen island]

Are MBAs valued for roles you still write code?

[pastel thunder]

average of all is around 50-60K/ year i guess

[true harness]

what did you mean by this?

so 50 -60 should be avg for sde maybe

[pastel thunder]

just some approximation being done lmao, i dont earn in dollars

[hearty island]

no i mean bypass the gmat because my gpa is higher than a 3.3. not bypass stuff for a job

[gritty rivet]

Generally not I guess, maybe some interaction with code but not typically someone who's doing actual hands-on engineering all day

[true harness]

I was confused because you gave two separate estimates for sde

[gritty rivet]

Ah, makes sense. You could confirm with the program.

[brazen island]

Probably off topic but I really don't value MBAs in and of themselves (aside from the doors they open connections wise)

[hearty island]

yeah, i will. i will also look into some other schools too

[pastel thunder]

at 100$ someone said its 200+k $, so i reduced my approximation to 50-60

[gritty rivet]

Median is more useful then average, median salaries vary widely by location and education and everything else... In general SDEs make very decent middle class salaries but few are getting rich

[ivory sluice]

you can typically multiply an hourly rate by 2080 to get a salary amount. 26 pay periods * 80 hours each

[gritty rivet]

Right, the majority of SWEs aren't paid hourly

[ivory sluice]

there's also a wide variance of additional compensation by way of some form of stock and cash bonuses that can add a significant amount

[hearty island]

baruch's average gpa is a 3.3 🤔

they also require 2 years of work experience

"While work experience is not a requirement for admission to our MS programs, MBA applicants must have at least 2 years of post-bachelor’s work experience to be considered for admission."

[pastel thunder]

how much gpa is 90 percent?

[hearty island]

3.6, wait are you on a 4.0 scale? what scale are you on?

[pastel thunder]

my department topper is 87.1%, lmao. kinda average in usa i guess

[pastel thunder]

i wanted you to convert it to 4.0 scale

[hearty island]

then it's 3.6

[pastel thunder]

i have 83%, top 10 in my univ, american will think i got straight Bs😂

[hearty island]

rejected from JPM again, but to be expected

[fringe sphinx]

20/hr? US? I think that's starbucks pay. Your guy went astray somewhere, I think.

[fringe sphinx]

My shorthand is x 2k. $20/hr ~= $40k/year. I guess you just said the same thing, so I'll go back in my hole.

[hearty island]

it's his resume. and probably lack of internships.

[true harness]

a little high for Starbucks I think, but... yeah. actually is probably about right for a manager

[hearty island]

would you guys say it's a good or bad idea to ask that oracle recruiter for feedback on my resume?

[fringe sphinx]

Why not? If you get any feedback, that's good.

Many places won't tell you, but occasionally someone might.

[hearty island]

yeah, i was networking with a recruiter from oracle for a while. got her contact through the director of recruiting at oracle bc i cold emailed him

pretty bold of me lol

[median copper]

I'm not sales manager I'm programmer

[true harness]

are you getting interviews?

[hearty island]

ooooooh private equity firm

i'm actually going to call the recruiter and say hi. gave me his number in the handshake message

if you’re a cs major, i would say yes

i’m confused, you’re saying you’ll be a cs major without having coding courses?

[fringe sphinx]

What's your major?

[true harness]

probably still will

what are you considering

[hearty island]

if your major is accounting, fat chance it won't lol

[fringe sphinx]

Any idea? Not even a guess?

[true harness]

gened, though

[fringe sphinx]

My two cents: "Coding" comes up in just about every field. Even in accounting, you'll be writing formulas in spreadsheets (Excel), etc.

That said, it's just how much time you spend on it. It's good to be "familiar" with it, to take the mystery out of it.

I feel the same way about statistics.

[hearty island]

true

[fringe sphinx]

What year/grade are you?

[true harness]

isn't it a little early to think about avoiding coding in college

learning what though..

[hot aspen]

Chibi indeed lol

[true harness]

why do you want to avoid coding in college then?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so, I'd suggest learning a little bit of coding. There's some great projects and resources to learn from. It's like going to the gym: you don't have to get "swole", you can just stay healthy.

Yup, I think they call it "digital literacy" nowadays. It'll come up in just about any major.

[near ocean]

Just learn what you like

I did java in uni, not using it at work
I didnt do js in uni, using it at work
Theres no point trying to guess what your uni teaches and learn that

[median copper]

Yes but after I'm ghosted

Because I have no experience and freelance is not equal to experience

[true harness]

so you're getting interviews but get rejected after them? are you taking notes about how you can do better?

[median copper]

yeap they just want more experienced

Glad I didn't meet yet hr who can say that how unique you are if there many python devs and why we have to hire you

[fringe sphinx]

What's your level of experience? What are you doing to get more experience?

[median copper]

No experience Created projects like Telegram bot framework and lms but when I mentioned them they said they don't care about github and projects I mentioned

[fringe sphinx]

Are you doing anything to get more experience?

[median copper]

freelancing

[wanton birch]

There was someone here the other day whose high school demands you pass hard level leetcode or they kick you out of the school.

[median copper]

They just want to hire cheap unicorns

Only 1 interview I failed by stupidity which was close to job offer

[wanton birch]

Lol. What did you do wrong?

[median copper]

Thought task was too simple

And started overthinking because I wasn't able to believe that they give such simple tasks

P.S.Large well known company

[hearty island]

41% of the way through 🙂 my CAPM

[open hound]

Hello guys, I want to start learning Python and don't know where to start. Can you recommend any course ?or just where to start learning

[lime wren]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[median copper]

learn by docs or go to uni

[lime wren]

Bro Code has a good tutorial on youtube

[median copper]

he may not cover all basics

[lime wren]

12 hours not covering all basics right??

[open hound]

is someone already junior right now?

[median copper]

holy smokes 12 hours

[lime wren]

It's full and free

[open hound]

thanks

[true harness]

they told you they want more experience? why would they interview you at all then, isn't it on your resume?

[median copper]

of course it's on my resume they just don't qualify freelancing as experience

[fringe sphinx]

More experience sometimes refer to knowledge, not just time on the job: among CS graduates, there's a wide range of skills. Some candidates just didn't have enough experience compared to their peers.

ie: a cs graduate who fails fizzbuzz vs a cs graduate with strong leetcode

[median copper]

that's all what they want
to keep your progress on solving already solved challenges and work for free

They don't care about projects you built
Only certificates

[wanton birch]

Unless you ask to do that in assembly or machine code or something, I can’t imagine any cs grad ever actually not passing fizzbuzz

[hearty island]

you'd be surprised, people freeze up with problems

[true harness]

why would they interview you at all then. did they explicitly say they want more experience?

[median copper]

Because they started watching my resume after they started interview 😂

[true harness]

i guess so, yeah

[fringe sphinx]

You'd be shocked. I've had dozens fail.

[true harness]

I highly doubt that. I suspect there are other reasons you're being rejected

[median copper]

I got more complex tasks like profits and loses calculator

[true harness]

leetcode isn't going to fix any actual problems the business has