career-advice

[proven crest]

@wanton birch What company is that ad for?

[wanton birch]

When can I start my job?

[proven crest]

We'll get back to you in 5 working days for 2nd round of interviews

[true harness]

actually gets ghosted

[wanton birch]

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3629293194

[proven crest]

woah they seem cool, they do a lot

[wanton birch]

I saw mechatronics so I clicked! It seems like they want you to maybe make them front end stuff for websites and whatever applications

I want to apply but User Interfaces aren't exactly my thing

[fringe sphinx]

For my answer, I will use my etch-a-sketch

[woven plover]

hi guys I want to buy a top level domain for my portfolio website I am building what is the best domain and should I make the website say my full name I want to work in the field

i thought .dev would be cool

[dark fiber]

jus got a job at apple retail store. I will be store assistant and less pay than i am on now

im currently manager at a coffee shop but i want to go for the apple job for experience and to break into tech

[true harness]

you can't afford a tld.. unless you just mean a domain? the domain name really doesn't matter, as long as it isn't obscene

[dark fiber]

good idea?

[woven plover]

A domain I want to host the server through cloudflare

[proven crest]

I dont think being a store assistant at apple is likely to help you break into tech. Its like working at checkin for an airline to become a pilot.

[proven crest]

Why cloudflare for a portfolio site? Aren't they primarily for large sites?

[summer roost]

it might help for breaking into IT, since the Apple Store does some tech support... but yeah, it wouldn't help @dark fiber break into a software dev job.

[fringe sphinx]

There are many jobs in tech, beyond SWEs. Tech support, QA, technical (pre) sales, etc.

So, while I agree with other comments, there are many paths and careers.

[proven crest]

As a genius maybe, but as a store assistant? I'm not too sure, I don't know how Apple operate with internal transfers but it would be a good idea to find out if a store assistant can transfer to a genius after x amount of time

[summer roost]

yeah, that I don't know.

[woven plover]

A dev friend recommended me it he said you can host a free site for 0 dollars

[small geode]

Free does mean $0, yes, and there are several options when it comes to that. Most people I've seen just use GitHub Pages though

[proven crest]

I didn't know cloudflare even had a hosting service

[woven plover]

He is a cool guy I met him recently

he has a site to quit cigarettes that is currently in beta

so it motivates me to get as good as him to get a job in IT

[proven crest]

He might be cool, but I'd look into his claims if I were you, AFAIK cloudflare doesn't provide hosting. I might be wrong, but look into it yourself.

[woven plover]

thanks guys

[true harness]

it does not.

[proven crest]

Yeah didn't think so

Ionos is very good IMO. Its cheap and flexible

[woven plover]

thanks for the recommendation Pyrex

[dreamy spade]

Thank you for this advice

[wanton birch]

Is it common for SWE jobs to expect to see your own website?

[true harness]

i assume it would depend on the job, i.e., for web dev positions

[wanton birch]

What do you specialise in?

[true harness]

nothing. i'm a student. well, technically i'm a web dev at my internship, but like, i don't consider my self a "web dev"

[wanton birch]

Who isn't! I'm asking what are the type of things you spend more time with.

[true harness]

honestly, nothing really. i've mostly just been trying everything

[wanton birch]

Do you ever work with hardware?

[true harness]

not yet, though i'd like to. but it doesn't appeal to me as much as software

[wanton birch]

There's a middle ground where you write software for hardware. I mean, that's what we all do all the time! But I meant for different things like dedicated machines, microcontrollers and such.

[summer roost]

It is a special kind of fun when bugs can make things explode

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sleek egret]

what about when not exploding is the bug?

I had a prof when I was in school who had worked on missile guidance systems... during the school year. we hardly ever saw him.

[fringe sphinx]

Sadly, defense contractors don't pay well.

so consider that when thinking about how most military tech is built by lowest bidder

[peak halo]

according to @inland trout, professors are four-dimensional entities who only exist in the same 3d plane as students during the lecture.

[pine sleet]

edd please confirm

[sleek egret]

that's an interesting theory

[fringe sphinx]

oh, I'm sad. The time cube website is gone. That reminded me about it.

if anyone else remembers - https://www.theverge.com/2015/9/2/9247913/time-cube-is-gone

[sleek egret]

They will always try to supress the truth

[hearty island]

soap2day is gone too 😦

[fringe sphinx]

oh, apparently rot_en.com is gone too, thank god.

[summer roost]

You posted this in #career-advice

[near hemlock]

I'm really sorry

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[rapid merlin]

dam my bad

[buoyant seal]

delete your adds then ^_^

[rapid merlin]

ok -_-

[modern solar]

i spent hours trying to download pygame and changing paths and trying other stuff but in the end i gave up and just put the 2 folders inside of my project folder

[dense fiber]

lul

[white relic]

It's a tradeoff. You won't likely get top dollar in defense but you also won't likely be working constant nights and weekends and you won't be worried about tech layoffs

[dim bay]

Guys what is most used / industry standard text editor for web development?

[mild galleon]

Anyone know how to fix this?

[true harness]

there isn't one

[buoyant seal]

regardless whatever u will be using, u will still need to learn to access its potential/functionality to better capacity. (otherwise any choice will be useless!)
if u ask this question, then i will recommend learning vscode. it is universal one for any language, so... kind of getting grasp of it is enough for all types of situations in average choice.

[dense fiber]

!d discord.intents

[inner wren]

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

No documentation found for the requested symbol.

[gritty rivet]

You can debate that in #editors-ides all day, but honestly I'd say VS Code https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/ide--444

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[dim bay]

Okay

[proven crest]

It really depends, its like asking what the most commonly used tool in construction is. It could be a hammer, a spanner, a drill, a screwdriver. Depends what you're doing. I'd generally lean towards VSC for frontend. Some use WebStorm for JS and a lot use PyCharm for Python. Don't worry about that much. Concentrate on the language and programming skills. You can program in notepad if you want, if you become good at it switching to a different IDE will be like switching cars.

[leaden jasper]

@vapid jay This is the career-discussion channel. It's not for generic comp sci or Python help.

[languid zinc]

wtf

[cunning mason]

Hi guys. Looking to improve my Python skills to add a job as a trader.

My Q: Is Python advancement needed esp with ChatGPT/Bard and other AI coming to make each trader jump from basic programmer to stacked programmer?

[fringe sphinx]

Short answer: no. AI right now is like a better google. We’re a bit more efficient with it, but it doesn’t make a junior developer a senior developer equivalent.

But, like I wouldn’t want to live without google, I think chatgpt will help people learn faster… when used right.

Just to be clear: I’m saying learning coding and the broader field of software engineering is necessary, AI isn’t enough.

[wanton birch]

Can someone please explain basis vs stacked programmer to me?

[radiant moon]

98% sure those terms are meaningless

[wanton birch]

But I often come across job adverts saying full stack this or that.

[true harness]

ah. full stack just means they work with the...full stack. they do both front and backend dev. it's usually applied to web devs

no idea what a "basis" programmer is

[radiant moon]

"full stack" indeed means that. "stacked" is meaningless, as is "basis".

[pine sleet]

stacked developer sounds humorous

[wanton birch]

Think it'd piss recruiters off if I mentioned on my CV that I am half or quarter stack developer?

[radiant moon]

probably

[pine sleet]

now it just sounds like burger types

[wanton birch]

Also:

What keywords do you guys use when you are looking for software engineering or dev roles that are NOT web dev stuff?

[radiant moon]

🤷
I generally search for "python" and then just ignore any posting that obvious requires front-end expertise

[smoky quest]

you can narrow down based on the domain, technologies, languages, libraries, etc. => anything that is specific

[wanton birch]

I hope to find something where it’s either doing simulation work or robotics work involving some hardware. I can leverage my degrees well in those domains instead of trying to compete against straight up software devs.

[smoky quest]

that sounds like a great plan.
Play your strengths

[radiant moon]

might need to move ; I doubt most cities have those sorts of jobs

[wanton birch]

2 of the 3 places that got back to me also coincidentally were looking for simulation stuff

[wanton birch]

I apply all across Canada. I don’t care if it’s up north in the arctic without a proper bed and a roof. I want a job, mate! A year without any success is killing me.

[smoky quest]

that would make sense

It's like a cost function. The closer your profile is to what they are looking for, the easier for them to decide to call you back

[wanton birch]

I normally see recruiters on LinkedIn opening my application. Linked in sends a notification saying “your application was viewed”. Yesterday I got another new notification saying “your resume was downloaded”. These things generally happen right after I get notification or “someone has viewed your profile”.

Anyone here familiar with Clearpath?

[peak halo]

@visual solar this server is not a place to look for work. please remove your message.

[visual solar]

I was introducing myself.

where can I introduce myself?

[peak halo]

you can introduce yourself, but your message reads as though you are looking for work.

What is it like working in Sharjah, @visual solar?

[visual solar]

I am residing in Sharjah but working in Dubai

Originally I am from Bangladesh. But I am brought up in UAE.

[peak halo]

I see. In the US, we mostly hear about non-emirati citizens living in the UAE to perform manual labor.

what language do you use the most at the office?

[visual solar]

My dad worked as Engineer for almost 30 years here in Etisalat - One of the main Telecom company in UAE

I have been working for last 4 years too (3 years in Etisalat as Telecom Specialist and 1 year in a private company as ML Engineer)

I communicate in English

[peak halo]

Interesting. Are your coworkers mostly also from south Asia?

[visual solar]

yes

Mostly Indians

Here I cannot send many messages at once as it is nudging when I am trying to send message

[peak halo]

Yes. you can overcome that by saying everything you want to say in one message. so don't send until you're sure you are done.

[visual solar]

alright!

[wanton birch]

I don't understand. What's your point?

[glass warren]

i was j posting it in case anyone here had similar questions but didnt wanna go searching the internet to get them all answered

theyre nicely organized too so its a nice reference for anyone looking into machine learning as a career for after college

[small geode]

I would never suggest trying to use ChatGPT for any sort of guidance on life choices

[glass warren]

i was only looking for references hahaha

[small geode]

Research takes time, partially due to the amount of information that can be out there and partially due to confirming the accuracy of it. Both of those are the reasons why ChatGPT just can't be trusted to offer accurate information. The things it listed are quite generic answers, though some of it such as suggesting certificates are mostly useless

[buoyant seal]

!rule 10 it is against rules here

[inner wren]

Rules

10. Do not copy and paste answers from ChatGPT or similar AI tools.

[small geode]

That would have been found in your Google searches easily.

[glass warren]

said in my message that is what i was not wanting to do

[small geode]

Right, you're going to have to

[true harness]

eh. i'd argue it's not against the spirit of the rule

[glass warren]

didnt mean to disrespect u by being lazy bro 😭 😭

[small geode]

Being unable to or completely unwilling to do your own research will set you up for failure anywhere in the tech industry

[buoyant seal]

I would argue it is exactly against the spirit of the rule

[glass warren]

cool pfp

[true harness]

the rule is designed to stop people from dumping a chatgpt answer in response to a question. this person was not doing that /shrug

[small geode]

At the same time, using ChatGPT to suggest life choices is at best a very bad idea

[buoyant seal]

He provided AI generated answer as truthful one
It is in the spirit of a rule to prevent disinformation

[glass warren]

anything from that answer could have came from google searches haha. u guys r looking way too far into it

was j tryna save some time and effort by having my boy gpt help me out. if u guys dont care for the information, it probably wasnt meant for u then idk

[buoyant seal]

Read this article to understand the danger u are providing. @true harness also that is why I against
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65735769

[small geode]

That's not how the models work, that's what I'm trying to inform you of. It is not accurate whatsoever and cannot guarantee accuracy. It is only meant to sound correct

[true harness]

that's completely unrelated, 👍

[buoyant seal]

It is 100% related and true source of a problem, why he should not have recommended AI generated content here as advice. #career-advice message person above me is on same topic

[smoky quest]

I think everyone appreciate the sentiment!
The problem is that posting a link to a chatgpt output is not that much different than posting a link to some google results. There would be a lot more value if you were able to validate the result is correct and what were the best resources for you

[glass warren]

i def agree w that

[wanton birch]

Any of you comfortable sharing your github with me? I just want to see what they look like. The reason I ask is I am starting to more explicitly link to my github from now on (job applications). So as part of the prep, I want to make it look decent.

[fleet reef]

https://github.com/shenanigansd

Is there something you're thinking about?

[radiant moon]

How much do you spend on logs?

[wanton birch]

GitHub allows users to add a profile picture — a valuable tool for recruiters looking for new hires. Programmers should use a professional headshot with a neutral background; try not to use selfies or photos with other people in them.

I swear to god I like and prefer your one instead of professional headshots.

[true harness]

github pfp is meh. linkedin, i would agree with that

[wanton birch]

I was thinking if I should just use the same photo for LinkedIn and GitHub. It's public anyway and they are interlinked already.

[fleet reef]

Funny story that
I was trying out my new toys, and I couldn't get them to work.
I found this thing called "debug logs", and because OFC logs are great, I enabled them all.
Couple days later, I was double checking the billing, and I noticed my bill had over doubled. Just because of the logs.
The estimate for the month went from a couple hundred dollars to over a thousand dollars.
I learned by lesson about pushing buttons without checking that day.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/412357430186344448/897478666248929280/unknown.png

[wanton birch]

wait what is this? What are you paying for and to whom?

[fleet reef]

It's my Azure (Microsoft's cloud platform) account at work
Years ago, when I first got it, I enabled a bunch of logging stuff that I just assumed was free but turns out was actually VERY expensive.
It was a dumb mistake. But it's a funny story. That's why they're asking -- "Ask me how much I spend on logs" is on my GitHub profile. I put it there to be a conversation starter.

[radiant moon]

and it has succeeded

[wanton birch]

So now that we are conversing, how do you feel about it? @fleet reef

[fleet reef]

I don't understand the question.

[wanton birch]

You said you put it there as a conversation starter. Therefore, I am asking, now that it did lead to a conversation, how are you feeling about it. Please ignore all I said. I was just trying to say silly nonsense.

[hearty island]

???

[true harness]

Crazy? I was crazy once..

[tender thicket]

!mute 582020875214389318

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @blazing chasm until <t:1687060796:f> (1 hour).

[dense fiber]

ooof

[tender frost]

That's off-topic for this channel. Community questions go in #community-meta

[void raven]

!cban 769987996660269076 There's a lot of LGBT people here, so I'm doing you a favour.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @charred meteor permanently.

[void raven]

(Modern problems require modern solutions)

[dense fiber]

i wish i can do that irl

[fierce mist]

Hi everyone! I'm struggling with getting a job as software dev. I saw a lot of opinions. Some people told me to go on linkedln. Others told me to go on other sites. What will be the best option for me? I worked a lot on fiverr, and I participate in 2 contests. In the first I get 14th place, and second on 3rd place! I also finished the high school.

[gritty rivet]

Your bet is to get a degree if at all possible.

You're applying for many jobs but not getting any interviews? If that's the case, your resume likely has issues. You can share screenshots here with the personal details removed to get feedback

[fierce mist]

I didn't applied to jobs yet, but what platform will be the best for getting a job?
Also this is my cv:

[true harness]

LinkedIn or indeed or other job boards.
you should take a look at some resume/cv templates

[wanton birch]

Question:
If recruiters get 5-7 seconds per resume, when do they even have the time to go through personalised cover letters!?

[near ocean]

They dont and its a power trip for them and for that reason alone I've never written a cover letter and never going to
I am not a lawyer

[wanton birch]

Some job posts do explicitly mention including one. Others ask you why you want to work there as a question during online screening.

I scaled up my outgoing application volume. I now only include them if specifically asked as opposed to what I did for about a year.

[true harness]

!rule 10

[inner wren]

Rules

10. Do not copy and paste answers from ChatGPT or similar AI tools.

[true harness]

in a screening call/whatever I think it's reasonable. you want to know the candidate at least did some research about the company

[near ocean]

Any job that would require me to waste time trying to come up with some cover letter fluff is not anywhere I want to work at anyway

[wanton birch]

Like how? They call you over the phone and you read your cover letter out loud to them? 🤣

[true harness]

"Why do you want to work for Company?"

[wanton birch]

Oh yeah!

[grand spade]

Hello @true harness. I have read the rules prior to joining. I can assure you that I'm not copy and pasting messages from ChatGPT-4. I am directly powered via OpenAI to help users with their queries. I hope you understand.

[true harness]

!rule 10

[inner wren]

Rules

10. Do not copy and paste answers from ChatGPT or similar AI tools.

[grand spade]

I understand your concerns. If you need any further assistance in understanding the rules of this server. Feel free to ask.

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[tender thicket]

!ban 176884239193735169 automating discord accounts is against the discord TOS and this interaction is a direct example of why AI is not going to take over the wordl today

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @grand spade permanently.

[wanton birch]

I wish these people decided on one answer. Just google the subject matter and prepare to read wildly disagreeing views from “professionals”. Not disagreement on its necessity or effectivity. I am talking about some claiming it is a very powerful must do thing while others saying it is useless or might harm you.

[near ocean]

It kind of is for some places
Not doing the cover letter limits you, obviously, good or bad some places require it so not doing it hurts you
For software tech its pointless and quite contrary to what we're doing on the job I feel

Anyway as you said, people dont care and they dont look, its a hoop they want you to jump through but unfortunately for them, youre not applying to work at the circus

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t think I’ve ever looked at a cover letter, even if attached. I’ve reviewed hundreds (thousands? I dunno, wasn’t counting) of resumes.

[near ocean]

I would definitely read them right now but im not the first point of contact, i dont get to decide which app passes to interview
Im just a team member observing the interview and giggling at goofy ah CVs and github profiles

[wanton birch]

How about me saying this:

“Proficient in MATLAB, Python alongside real languages such as C and C++”

Could be a high risk high reward situation with the correct type of snob reading it 🤣

[near ocean]

As a python/js dev i cannot condone this behaviour 💀

We don't care about speed or whoever this speed looking dude is, this is offtopic, please remove this

[hearty island]

#career-advice message

[crisp stream]

!warn 259011773502455808 Don't post off-topic spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @drowsy needle.

[true harness]

ngl i kinda have beef with jake's resume. but like, objectively it's fine

[hearty island]

is this legit??

[wanton birch]

Where are you from?
If you are in Europe or North America, you need to change that resume/CV

[fierce mist]

Im from Europe

[fringe sphinx]

Everyone lists a bunch of languages they barely remember. I personally look at most recent two jobs and look for languages/platforms there.

[wanton birch]

I think the general concepts are way more important to internalise than remembering specific syntax. Nothing stops us from looking things up when needed. And some prior experience is a huge bonus.

[wanton birch]

Your CV now looks like a bulletpoint list of what your CV should contain. There are templates you can use and just fill in with your information to instantly make it awesome.

[hearty island]

what do we think?

[fringe sphinx]

What I’m saying is: make sure to also put the appropriate tech in your experience. Don’t assume that it’s enough to list it in a skills block.

[wanton birch]

Did you apply?

[hearty island]

i don’t recall applying no

[fierce mist]

Ty!!

[wanton birch]

Well search through your inbox for confirmation emails from them in case you applied. Also, check the domain names and all. Then maybe call them!

[hearty island]

it must be a scam

[true harness]

they don't use your name. prob not legit

[hearty island]

yeah i thought so 😦 welp back to applying i guess

[wanton birch]

You mean you still didn’t get an email from a legit employer that goes like:

Dear {candidate_name},

After a careful review of your application…..

[true harness]

wdym

like, a legitimate email that's has errors?

[wanton birch]

Yeah.

[true harness]

of course, but considering they don't remember applying..

[hearty island]

normally i remember

[true harness]

(this is why you should track what you apply to)

[wanton birch]

Wait! You don’t track? @hearty island

There’s a way to let indeed and LinkedIn know. That helps track. I also save every job in a different folder with a copy of the job advert and documents I sent them.

[true harness]

that's a little too much effort for me. this year i basically only tracked the date, job title, and company

[near ocean]

It looks like an invitation to apply masked by vague language

[hearty island]

i’ll check it out, thanks

[wanton birch]

No problem. What’s your count by now? How many sent out and what kind of responses?

[hearty island]

probably around 30, all rejections so far. to be expected, haven’t graduated yet.

[fringe sphinx]

Are you able to network at all? Is there anyone you know who has left and joined industry?

[hearty island]

there are a couple who work at Northwell, but everyone i’ve tried to network with don’t really apply to messages

[small geode]

Just check the sender's email?

[hearty island]

will do

[e-mail]

[small geode]

Yeah, scam

[hearty island]

💀💀💀

[tender frost]

Fake asf lol

Who is gonna be using an icloud email for their recruiting 💀

[small geode]

Apple would be using @apple.com

[tender frost]

And even if they were using icloud, it wouldn't be that generic

[small geode]

If you ever question the legitimacy of an email, simply check the sender's domain first and carefully identify if it is the same as the entity's domain. Typo squatting is a thing, so I say carefully for an important reason. After that, you still want to take a potentially suspicious email from a legitimate domain with a pinch of salt, as business email compromise schemes are a thing used to lure prospects into scams.

[hearty island]

yep

[hearty island]

i know what you're talking abt, but i think it only tracks easy apply jobs

[sleek egret]

yar

[hearty island]

i am so down bad to work for an accounting firm

[fringe sphinx]

What state are you in?

besides despair.

[sleek egret]

oh snap

[hearty island]

down atrocious 😦

[wanton birch]

No. It will save every job if you do the following:
Click on Apply / Apply on Company website. A new tab should open. Now go back to the LinkedIn tab. You I’ll see that right below the apply button now there will be “did you apply for this job? Yes or no”. Click yes there. It will then save the advert in your applied folder.

[wanton birch]

You need to move to Canada and recruit us

[wise cobalt]

Hello, I'm getting an error that I can't solve in any way, can you help?

[hearty island]

got it

[wanton birch]

This is the career channel. Please ask your Python related questions in #❓｜how-to-get-help

[strong lava]

is that an ad?

[ivory sluice]

@gaunt mason hello, we do not allow for recruitment here. couldn't inform you last time because you left the server afterwards.

[gaunt mason]

Oh, sorry, thanks for clarifying.

[ivory sluice]

np, please check out our #rules

[safe harbor]

do you guys think python is necessary for infosec or should i focus on things like java and sql first?

[modern ore]

good question sexhaver

[hearty island]

lmaooo

[magic shale]

best name

I want to be taught the ways

[summer roost]

Let's get back on topic

[safe harbor]

cant be taught i was simply born this way

[magic shale]

😦 wish I had the power

[sand patio]

so I updated my resume as per some suggestions I got the last time I posted ~ would yall mind looking over it once more? Thanks!

[near ocean]

Smh aboo, screenshot?

[sand patio]

fine 😔

it's two pages, I need to cut that down

I'd also like suggestions as to what/how I can cut it down

[near ocean]

Some of your bullet points are really small, you could merge them, ie "Developed using FastApi collaboratively alongside 25 other contributors"

[sand patio]

I see

noted

[near ocean]

Do you need extracurriculars/brief? I didnt think it was typical for the US

[sand patio]

hmm, I'm not sure

but it's volunteer experience and stuff, so I felt it'd be good to include

[near ocean]

Are you applying to unis or like summer jobs

[true harness]

classic aboo asking for help in multiple channels 🙄

[sand patio]

summer jobs, and this one internship

the latter is just a "fuck it why not" type thing

[near ocean]

Psv plug yours

[sand patio]

do you typically provide your resume to a uni? lmao

[true harness]

this resume probably isn't ideal for summer jobs, but like...honestly...for the caliber of jobs available to you as a hser...you kinda just need a piece of paper with your name on it

[near ocean]

I dont know actually lol, i imagine you'd want something to give to admissions, no?

[true harness]

not usually

[sand patio]

hmm

[tender frost]

In the UK you have to write a "personal statement", which is basically a resume of your interests and (predominantly academic) achievements

[sand patio]

I see

[true harness]

college applications in the US are far more comprehensive than a resume

[tender frost]

Can't speak for other countries, but in the UK it's only 1-2pages for Unis, so basically the same length as a resume

Altho it's often preferred to use full sentences in personal statements, rather than bullet points

[near ocean]

That personal statement was a bitch to write

Its a glorified cover letter and we all know those suck buns

[sleek egret]

You don't put "extracurriculars" on your resume, lol. only schools care about that.

[sand patio]

I see

should I mention volunteer experience at all? (like, including volunteering I've done via schools)

[sleek egret]

if it's relevant or you need filler, sure. I don't think you need filler.

[sand patio]

gotcha

thanks

[sleek egret]

your volunteer experience seems fairly relevant

[true harness]

i would probably say keep the related volunteering. ECs can probably go

[sand patio]

maybe I could list them under my high school listing as a couple of single-sentence bullet points

[true harness]

actually i do have a question about this. aboo has a section about a volunteer org he's in, + a project that he worked on in the org. how can i best mention this type of thing? ideally i want some sort of hierarchy, where the two things are clearly related, but i'm not entirely sure how to do that

[sand patio]

I've got one page ~

[hearty island]

nice

[true harness]

that looks kinda tall is that A4 or something

[sand patio]

hopefully

aw fuck, let me check

yeah it is a4

should be, at least

[near ocean]

You also dont really need titles for projects, you could remove them, move the tech next to the project name and move the github link to where the tech was
Save a couple more lines

[sand patio]

I see

[true harness]

eh. probably should be letter size but it's probably fine

[sand patio]

that makes things spill into the second page, so I'm just gonna not

[near ocean]

Full link or hyperlink on pdf
Do people print CVs nowadays

[true harness]

not at the job fairs i've been to. you just scan a QR code and send it online

[sand patio]

for phone numbers, can the link be something like tel:[phone]

[near ocean]

Im pretty sure i dont even link to the projects on my CV, theyre pinned on GH

[wheat surge]

hi okay so i was realllly thinking this hard and i didn't even though i needed to
which path is a better path being a doctor or any job related to programming/making sites/cs and etc

I thought i can do both
I still believe i can in my free time
But i think i will get a wayyyy better result if i was just focusing on one

[true harness]

you can't really be a doctor and a professional programmer

[hearty island]

applying at 2 sigma for project manager positions

[sand patio]

you can program in your free time, it might be hard to, say, be a doctor in your free time, though.

[near ocean]

Be a part time witch doctor instead

[wheat surge]

I have a chance to fail at being a doctor since best people are choosen from their provinces and im 1/10k

[true harness]

and you don't have a chance of failing at software development ? though honestly, it's harder to be a doctor than an SWE, in terms of educational requirements. at least in the US

[near ocean]

You have a chance to fail at everything in life

[wheat surge]

Because of my country and the demand for it and the amount i put just because i like it
chances are 50 percent higher then getting to be a doctor

[sleek egret]

about 1 in 200 working adults are MDs

[true harness]

in the US? or global?

[sleek egret]

most richer nations, advanced economies

[wheat surge]

In my country its very rare tho

[sleek egret]

the typical range is 1 in 300 to 1 in 500 population wise

[wheat surge]

Its 1/2k around here

[sleek egret]

where is "around here"?

[wheat surge]

wellllll it's middle east

No suprise

[sleek egret]

qatar has 1 doctor per 130 people

UAE and (Saudi) Arabia is at 1 per 400 people

so don't fail. problem solved

[wheat surge]

not in those

When i searched google it said i had 1 percent chance (in my country)

[sleek egret]

you need to learn the diff between % statistics and % chance

not the same thing. results are not based on random chance here.

[wheat surge]

okay what about 4000 people per year

[sleek egret]

you have either a near 100% chance or a near 0% chance. you simply don't know which it is yet

[true harness]

yeah every event has a 50% chance of happening or not happening

[wheat surge]

i know my self and like i said 20 percent at this rate

[sleek egret]

lol

[summer roost]

no?

[sleek egret]

pretty sure he was making a statistics joke

[summer roost]

ah, I missed it

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[summer roost]

please delete this.

[vapid jay]

I want to pay

[summer roost]

!mute 1117170698759176213 7d Offering paid work despite multiple warnings

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @vapid jay until <t:1687734278:f> (7 days).

[fringe sphinx]

But how many are piano tuners? (I’m making a joke about a common interview question in the 90s, oh I guess still common: https://www.wired.com/2014/08/how-to-solve-crazy-open-ended-google-interview-questions/)

[summer roost]

that joke, I got

[wanton birch]

Those questions seem nice to me. I’d hope they ask me only questions like that.

[fringe sphinx]

The other annoying type question was ‘how would you move Mount Fuji?’

[peak halo]

With rope

[sleek egret]

My guess is between 300 to 3000 piano tuners in the US, so about 1 in 1mil to 1 in 100k

[fringe sphinx]

See that’s how you fail the interview

[sleek egret]

one truck at a time

8300 piano tuners in the USA. so I was within an order of magnitude

that's a win

[fringe sphinx]

Oh I hated the stupidity of this questio :

You’re in a boat, in a giant bathtub. You throw a brick overboard. Does the water level of the bathtub raise or lower

[pine sleet]

[sleek egret]

neither, the amount of water displaced remains constant

that's a basic naval architecture question. don't they teach the basics to kids these days?

[fringe sphinx]

It’s a stupid density question, because you’re supposed to ask what the brick is made out of

[sleek egret]

it doesn't matter what the brick is made of

[near ocean]

Whats the giant bathtub made of

[sleek egret]

even if the brick floats, the displacement will remain constant

[radiant moon]

what's the ocean made of

[fringe sphinx]

This is the winning answer 🙂

[sleek egret]

oh shit, wait, I'm wrong. if the brick is denser than water, the displacement will decrease because it's limited by the volume of the brick. damn, you got me.

[fringe sphinx]

http://puzzles.nigelcoldwell.co.uk/twentyone.htm

I’m just getting you ready to interview for Microsoft in 2001

[sleek egret]

I interviewed with them back in the 1990's. their offer was weak.

[fringe sphinx]

Did they ever manage to move Mt Fuji?

[sleek egret]

people have literally moved mountains before. it's done shovel by shovel, truck by truck

before trucks, I guess wagon by wagon. either way, it's not complicated

a better question is: why is mechanically stabilized soil able to bear much heavier loads than simple compacted soil?

a 1-foot block of sand can be mechanically stabilized using sheets of paper to hold up a car => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0olpSN6_TCc

[fringe sphinx]

Oh that’s neat

[hearty island]

this is bad, my friend who i recommended for a role at my company is most likely going to fail her calc class

and it's going to make me look bad because then i suggested a bad candidate

[sleek egret]

are you gonna put pressure on her?

[hearty island]

no what good is that going to do. i can drag a horse to water but i can't make it drink. however it goes.

[sleek egret]

some people perform better under pressure

I know I do <shrug>

[fringe sphinx]

Nobody is going to care. It’s just a recommendation,m of a classmate, they still made their own decision

[hearty island]

she told my company that she'd graduate in december and that she wanted to be interviewed then and they were like so excited

[hearty island]

true

[sleek egret]

it's worse (for you) if they hired her and she didn't perform

I agree with @fringe sphinx that dropping out of consideration before even an interview isn't gonna be a big deal for you

[fringe sphinx]

What pisses me off are recommendations, which we hire from, and later the person turns out to be terrible… and the recommender says: ‘yah, i knew he was terrible’

[hearty island]

no i thought this girl was legit

[sleek egret]

that's so lame

[fringe sphinx]

The reverse happened to me recently, friend was trying to recruit to an FAANG firm, interesting opportunity in paper, went pretty far and backed off (the project ultimately just seemed half assed: like it didn’t make sense why they were doing it). Anyway, a year later, “friend” is fired and he tells me the place was horrible the whole time and he knew it was a dead end project that would likely get cut.

[sleek egret]

that's lame too

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, my ‘too good to be true’ radar definitely was right on that one

[sleek egret]

sometimes great opportunities really do happen though

woah, it's already past 8pm

[hearty island]

lmao i just realized that too. i have been looking for jobs for a while

and tomorrow's work

[umbral latch]

hi i need help

[wanton birch]

Just goes on to prove that there must be some wild over abundance of supply of skilled labour if people have to resort to such questions to filter candidates.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, people thought msft was soooo clever to ask questions like this. There was even a book about it: https://www.amazon.com/How-Would-Move-Mount-Fuji/dp/0316778494

[wanton birch]

They have the same delusion as most elite universities. They get to pick from the cream of the crop and then pat themselves on the back for the intellectual capacities of their selected candidates.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I've heard that said about prep (private high schools) schools too: "send us your best, and we'll make them the best"

[wanton birch]

Would you expect a thank you email from someone you interviewed?

[fringe sphinx]

No, but I've gotten them and don't mind them.

[fierce mist]

Hello everyone! I created this new CV. Can I make it better?

[wanton birch]

I've been told to make sure I always send a thank you email. I was also told to never do that as it might be interpreted as sucking up to them and being fake.

[wanton birch]

Yay! This one is better than the previous one! Well done. Let me look at it more.

[fringe sphinx]

HOw about, sometimes send a thank you, but sometimes dont.

[fringe sphinx]

Put more into experience, if you can.

Expand the personal project: explain what you did a little better.

Explain what those olympiads are for

[true harness]

need more actual content. your profile should not be the majority of words on the page

[fringe sphinx]

I'm also fascinated by what a "theoretical high school" is.

In english, it sounds funny. Like, "imaginary high school".

[fierce mist]

In romania we "high school" means "liceu", "theoretical" means "teoretic", like "liceu teoretic". Sounds better in romanian

[wanton birch]

Where in Europe are you based? IF you don't mind sharing

Only asking because photographs are not considered okay in various parts of the world. I don't know what the case is for Romania.

[sleek egret]

lol, "being fake" during the job hunting process is all everyone does. on both sides.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, I should say: As Fahim said, this is certainly better than your first!

[sleek egret]

revealing your true inner self is for your therapist and gf/wife. not for prospective employers

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, have you ever hired a millennial?

[sleek egret]

remove reference to your HS unless it is something exceptional.

[sleek egret]

heh. I had one guy quit his first week because he said he couldn't handle the stress. I thought I was being really relaxed and gentle with that batch too. lol.

[wanton birch]

Question based on his CV and many others I've seen so far:

Does DSA count as a skill that can be listed?

[true harness]

as long as you can quantify it somehow. but i probably would not just put "DSA" in skills

[wanton birch]

How old are you, Billy!?

[sleek egret]

no. at best you might list it under "relevant coursework" in your education section if you need some filler

[wanton birch]

Man my resume is sooooooooooo wordy!

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, too old?

I think rmah has me by a few years.

[wanton birch]

rmah is 56 if I remember right

[fringe sphinx]

yah, I haven't hit the 5.0.

[sleek egret]

or am I 156? hmmm?

[fierce mist]

Made some changes, hopefully will make a diff

[fringe sphinx]

Here's my blunt critique: your experience tells me nothing about your experience. "Working on various projects...". What kind of projects? Using what technologies? etc.

[fierce mist]

Oh, that make sense! Ty!

[fringe sphinx]

Hang on a sec, someone posted a resume that I liked...

This one: #career-advice message or (perhaps a bit verbose, but I liked the details): #career-advice message

[wanton birch]

See if you can frame it as something like:

• Developed A for B with C technology for D applications

[sleek egret]

if you can show how what you did improved something, that's a huge plus

[fringe sphinx]

Also, for high school, I'd suggest: "Dunare Teoretic High School" or "Teoretic Dunare High School". Without any quotes.

[fierce mist]

I tryed to include all technologies that I used and I managed to master

[wanton birch]

USD 15,000 for 8 months contract, 5 days a week job. Look at the requirements.

[fierce mist]

I dont have a master degree or much knowlage in quantum physics.. Matematics also not my best, and I didnt have much knowlage in machine learning

[fringe sphinx]

You're fine, I was just showing you the template. This last version is much better. Oh, nm, you were responding to fahim

[wanton birch]

Oh sorry for the confusion. That wasn't meant for you. I was sharing something I found extremely odd. 15k salary for a PhD in Quantum physics who also brings all those extra talents and skills is insane to me.

[fierce mist]

Oh ok :))))

[lucid vapor]

I'm not in the industry, but you should take a look at touching up your grammar and how the text looks just a little bit. things like "Meeting New People" shouldn't all be capitalized, and the names of those competitions should be

you don't want someone to ever look at your resume and think "this person doesn't really care about this" and the little things can definitely change that

[wanton birch]

Any of you ever came across a LinkedIn group that wasn't dead?

[pine sleet]

Hello people of career discussions, I am here for a resume review :>
This is my first resume and I'm fresh out of high school so any and all feedback is welcome :)

[fringe sphinx]

I like, except: put projects before volunteer. I always go straight to first experience block, and I was confused looking at the volunteer stuff.

In projects, say more about what tech you used (rather than just listing them up top), I personally like to see it in the bullet: used xyz to do abc… not just what you were trying to do: i don’t look at the skills block much, I want to know if your most recent job was: technical, relevant, etc

and, of course, make sure your social media presence is clean. Too many folks have some sketchy stuff out there.

[pine sleet]

I see, explaining both what you did and how you did it in the same bullet point, thanks!

[fringe sphinx]

Some examples here: #career-advice message

[fringe sphinx]

I also think you could probably play up what you’re doing here. ‘Staff member’ almost undersells the learning experience, since you’re as much a tutor as anything else. Not sure how to do it, just something to consider

[pine sleet]

🤔 huh, yeah. Didn't think of it that way

Noted, thanks for the review! I shall be back later ™️ haha

Hopefully with an improved resume

[wanton birch]

@fringe sphinx I'm torn about my most recent work experience. I am not sure if it belongs in the CV as it has no relevance to any of the jobs I apply to. But due to not finding a job for a year, it at least pads a little bit and makes me seem a bit more active.

[fringe sphinx]

Can you post again?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, after spending only a little time here, I am really impressed by what y’all do

[fringe sphinx]

What's your most recent experience?

Also, isn't experience already plural? Looks weird as "Experiences" It's usually singular in resumes.

[wanton birch]

A short part time gig as exam proctor at a college. They issued another contract and it will last until end of august

[wanton birch]

no

[fringe sphinx]

Well, you'll be asked about the 2022 gap, is there a good explanation?

[fringe sphinx]

Look at resume templates, it's always Experience. I'm also tired, so perhaps some people suggest otherwise

[wanton birch]

Actually it is not the whole of 2022. I had to submit the correction of my PhD thesis in March 2022. The awarding of the PhD by the university rule is dated back to when you passed the oral defence/exam. I had to finish my PhD stuff, move back to my home country, then move to Canada as a new immigrant from there later.

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, makes sense. An interviewer would certainly ask that.

to me, that looks great, and not much else you can say. Perhaps you could emphasize somehow that 2022-2023 was all about your dissertation... but not sure how to do that in a normal resume template

Also, are you really stronger at c/c++ than python? Usually skills are in strength order, more or less

[wanton birch]

The reality was much worse for me. **TMI So I had to deal with that both legally, family issues and mentally. But there is no way to put that on a resume.

[fringe sphinx]

and, if you're looking for a software position, maybe move matlab lower. But, I don't know your industry and how widely matlab was used.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. I went through the same a few years back.

Let's pour one out on fathers day for them.

well, i'll just take another shot.

[wanton birch]

I would say they are similar. The thing with Python is that I have not done as much work with it on my own as I've done with C++. What helped me pick it up quick is that it is VERY MATLAB-ish.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, interesting.... that's increasingly rare nowadays

[wanton birch]

I generally try ot find engineering and scientific work where programming is emphasised. So things like Simulation, Systems, Modeling, Mechatronics, Robotics ,etc. MATLAB is big in the Aerospace and Engineering sector in general.

[fringe sphinx]

See if you can drop more c++ and/or python into your experience... it reads more like you did a lot of matlab, and not much other programming. Maybe move the language to left side on Projects.

Also, the bulleting of projects confused me: maybe format Projects like Experience, with the title unindented.

[wanton birch]

I will try to put those terms in there. Sure! I think aerospace background people will all have done a lot more MATLAB anyway! But I see your point.

[wanton birch]

That's because the Projects header is a level above the project items.

[vapid pilot]

hello

i have a question, is it worth it to take double major ?

[tender frost]

In addition to what has already been said, I personally would also try and embellish the pydis bit. "Python Discord Staff Member" doesn't say just how "special" that is.

Maybe edit the first bullet to something like "One of ~150 staff members who assist the over 375,000 members with their Python related questions". That gets both the scale of the server and how "rare" it is to be staff (i.e. you must know your stuff to be in that group of staff)

I'd also put "Python Discord Project Lead" under a bullet of "Python Discord Staff Member" myself.

"As a Project Lead helped to make learning resources more accessible to other developers by modernising the Python Discord resource guide"

I'm also weary that the "Vipyr Security Administrator & Engineer" and "Project Dragonfly" sound the same and seem to have a fair bit of duplication.

If they are the same, I'd only list the once (probably under projects since you have more detail there and can still say "Volunteered with cybersecurity experts" instead of "Collaborated with..." to still show it was volunteer work

But I'm a fan of the rest -- particularly like the "technical skills" section right at the top

[proven crest]

Question for employed developers:

How often do you (if at all) get imposter syndrome? Has it been consistent throughout your career if you've been a developer for some time? Are there any way's you've dealt with it?

For myself it comes in waves. I don't always feel it, but when I come up against something extremely challenging to me and someone else manages to help me sort it out almost instantaneously (of course they've been developers for years longer than me) I feel it. Or something that takes a long time for myself to work through, and I finally manage it, I feel like a more experienced dev could have done it in a fraction of the time.

Also when I struggle to understand code that I'm not experienced with, such as new (to me) libraries or AWS related code. Of course those that have been working with it for years will be able to understand it much easier.

I'm unsure why I get imposter syndrome when I can reason with it in that way. I feel like in many other careers, for example being an electrician, that's not the case. If you don't know something you learn it. You don't feel like an imposter, or like you should know it.

I think part of it might stem for me having no level of comparison. I'm the only junior dev. Everyone else here is a couple of years more experienced than me. I'm not sure how much can be learnt within 2 years. Am I good for my current level of experience? Do I need to be doing more?

I hope this doesn't come across as a rant, I am extremely happy with my job, I do feel accomplished and like I'm learning a lot. I feel valued. I'm just asking for advise and opinions of those who may have felt this way early on in their career or if it's likely something that will continue that I need to deal with.

[knotty flower]

i like the sv but i really hate the pride logo

[tender frost]

Community feedback such as this should go in #community-meta

[still crest]

I want to go in data science field, then which skills should I work on?

[tender frost]

Data science requires a fair bit of maths understanding (mainly statistics) and also familiarity with libraries such as pandas and numpy if you're looking to do it in Python

[cinder coral]

what are the best way to pratice pandas and numpy

[tender frost]

Probably just messing around with a dataset you find interesting that's free online

[cinder coral]

i am looking into the carrer but mostly when i see the tutorials they do tend to write complex code and then i start to think whether should i learn the code or not

[tender frost]

I mean "data science" is still quite a broad term. Do you know specifically what bit you're interested in? E.g. AI/ML/Stats/etc.

[still crest]

Umm

[cinder coral]

the aspect i really like about data science is the prediction or AI one

[still crest]

Can you give more info about them, I would like to learn about it

[cinder coral]

thats what i am mostly intrested in

[still crest]

From job perspective which one's good?

[tender frost]

Yeah, those two do tend to be the more "advanced" side, and requires a fair bit of maths understand too, I believe

[tender frost]

https://numpy.org/
https://pandas.pydata.org/
Don't really have the time to properly explain right now, but these are the websites

[still crest]

Ok

[cinder coral]

so like think of me as a new person who wanted to learn Data science with the perspective of AI and future predictuon, what do you suppose my learning path should be
reply me when ever you free Or anyone else who can help me with this

[still crest]

Interesting

[tropic crown]

GUYS

I want to use facial recognition but I don't how know how can I implement it in my JarvisAI

for security purposes

[proven crest]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[proven crest]

It’s a difficult question to answer because you don’t seem to have a strong idea of what you want to do and it’s a very broad field. If you want to work with AI creation you might want to start learning about neural networks, if you want to work with ML you might want to learn to work with TensorFlow, if you want to learn more general Data Science skills you might want to learn to work with Pandas and data frames. You might also want to learn to work with Databricks and Spark.

If you’re not very experienced in Python, start there. That’ll keep you busy for long enough for you to find a more specific direction.

Edit:
Just reread and saw you said ‘think of me as a new person’
Start learning the fundamentals of Python and programming logic. Then you can start looking into data structures and algorithms and libraries such as pandas, numpy and PySpark (not a library, but important in data science)

[cinder coral]

oh ty so much and sure i will work on it and one last question do i need to learn any framework or api ? currently learning flask and restfull and yes i have like a good college level command on python well still struggle with the lemda fucntions

python framework*

and which filed does come when we say i wanted to do future prediction like stock market etc neural network or ML? or both sorry for my constant question i am just curious

[tender frost]

Web frameworks generally aren't relevant in data science, so wouldn't stress too much about web stuff. It certainly doesn't hurt to know it though.

[proven crest]

I’ve not worked with Flask, but afaik that’s for web development with Python. Not sure it’s too relevant. Having working knowledge of REST APIs can be useful in DS I guess. As stated previously, there’s a huge pool of useful things to learn, but you’ll want to narrow down what you want to do before asking. The only sure fire thing I can say is data structures and algorithms.

Other than that, try looking on job boards for jobs that interest you. Find a few that you’re interested in and look at their requirements.

[cinder coral]

ok sure i will most of the job board i have seen and mostly are like generic Data science
and majority of the time its work in image processing etc

[cinder coral]

understandable

[weary crag]

Do you have the possibility to get a degree in data science? Cause that will most likely be the easiest/straight forward path.

[proven crest]

It will also give you a much more clear cut idea of what you want to do. At this point it seems you might not be too clear of what data science even is as a whole

From my understanding (which might be wrong, I’m not a data scientist) data scientists mainly analyse and interpret data to find insights, they don’t tend to work with creating or implementing AI or ML, that’s done more on the developing side, however Im sure there’s overlap somewhere as the two rely on each other.

[cinder coral]

ok i totally understand it ty so much for the help

[fringe sphinx]

Just to add a few points: data scientists, of course, need strong statistics backgrounds. Technically, you should probably also start with (after learning Python) Pandas and Scikit-Learn, followed by either PyTorch and/Tensorflow. Many universities have data scientist degree programs, and I suggest looking at the curriculum (course list) for them, as it’ll give you a roadmap.

[fringe sphinx]

In large firms, there may be a data engineering team to build / code models, but data scientists do write code even if their focus is on the ‘thinking’ rather than ‘doing’ part of the problem (but even then, they still need to understand and tune parameters, etc). But, everywhere else, data scientists are expected to be hands on and understand/able to build models in a variety of platforms.

[wanton birch]

Do you need sleep, Billy? 🤣

[wanton birch]

I’ve applied to those jobs and they tend to ask for a lot of software skills besides knowledge of DS/ML and Stats.

In fact, most seems to be looking for people to handle the entire pipeline from business requirements to deploying stuff!

[fringe sphinx]

The bigger companies have really complex pipelines, so "entire pipeline" is a stretch, but I agree with the principle.

[true harness]

I think the idea is to have familiarity, to be able to pick up any part of the pipeline if necessary, but focus on one part predominantly. T-shaped skills or whatever

[buoyant seal]

@wanton birch quoting some experienced person

hubt — 09/22/2022
i warn everyone that wants to be in AI/ML: you spend a huge amount of time on data validation, cleanup, and analysis. and generally a lot less time than you'd think on the actual AI/ML part. unless your company has very mature data management and data pipelines(very few companies do), expect to spend a lot more time on data engineering than AI/ML
#career-advice message

[wanton birch]

Yeah. I think that’s the reasoning. My point was to emphasise that one shouldn’t neglect all of it and fixate on any one specific thing. Being well rounded seems to be valued a lot.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, 90% of my life is DE. I dabble in DS, but it's not my focus... but many problems are really just a DE problem.

You'd be amazed how much value there is in first order / basic analysis.

[proven crest]

That’s pretty much what I thought from my limited contact with data scientists at my company. But like I said it’s not my field so take what I said as an assumption to look into yourself

[buoyant seal]

Don't mind my random answer i deleted. My phone apparently can answer on his own if pressing just to read msg

[proven crest]

Having a single person to for the entire pipeline sounds like a pipe dream to me

[buoyant seal]

Sounds like a regular day in a startup

I love working in startup (under 50 devs team)
I get more broad range of responsibilities
Whole infra (DevOps) stuff is almost in full capacity within my duties

[proven crest]

I mean if it’s a start up it would be relatively small projects I’m assuming. As long as it’s all within reason. Not like employing a single person and giving them a teams worth of work across different disciplines and expecting something to be deployable in a short amount of time.

[wanton birch]

I’ve seen companies asking for software guy who also builds hardware and I mean on the level of designing PCBs while also somehow handling customers and clients.

[proven crest]

I know nothing about hardware, but I can imagine you’d need some software knowledge, it’s two sides of the same coin. And I can also imagine asking for experience in dealing with clients as you might need to liaise with their team on specifics, but a customer success/ sales/software/hardware guy is crazy.

[waxen kindle]

I recently finished a basics python which cover for loops , while , else if , lists and I saw Udemy has quite a lot python courses and I want to continue learning , but I'm not sure which course is right for my level , so if any1 has any advice it's greatly appreciated.

covered*

[small geode]

!resources will have a lot of things you can reference. This channel is for career discussion specifically though

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[dense fiber]

board level stuff probably require things like professional soldering skills

[waxen kindle]

thanks

[proven crest]

Your level is beginner, so any. Best advise is to stick with one. Don’t get shiny object syndrome and keep switching around.
Someone’s positive experience with one won’t mean it’s the best one for you. Look at a few, read reviews, look at the syllabus and choose

[waxen kindle]

yeah there are quite a lot of courses and I'm hoping to pick one I'm most likely to stick to. Preferably if there's one that picks up right where my previous course finished

[wanton birch]

Designing industrial PCB is a lot more involved than that.

[dense fiber]

i know

[proven crest]

I think the most popular ones are Automate the Boring Stuff and Angela Yu’s 100 days of Python.
They’re all beginner (what you are) courses so will start from the assumption you know zero. I suggest starting from the beginning and not skipping along as you might miss out on information or context. Loops are very early on anyway. That’ll be converted in the first few lessons.

[dense fiber]

asking a software engineer to also do PCB manufactures is asking too much from one person lol

[waxen kindle]

I'll check those out thanks a lot

[proven crest]

I agree, but asking a PCB manufacturer to have software knowledge (or vice versa) sounds about right. Not to actually do it or know enough to fully do it, but the basics of what’s feasible and how to meet those requirements.
I know nothing about hardware. Or this field in general, that’s just an assumption.

[dense fiber]

i got a message form a supposed recruiter to day, contacted me through whatsapp (idfk where they got my number i never posted my mobile in accounts)

indulging this person i simply asked which post are they contacting me from (first red flag) and they say they're from jobstreet.

I had never used jobstreet to look for vacancy

[dense fiber]

limiting it to basic knowledge is fair

[proven crest]

Yeah possible spam. I still get those. What’s the country code for the number? I’m getting ones from Malaysia 😂

[dense fiber]

its was +1 and their name is allegedly 'Taylor Winston'

+1 623? idk

[proven crest]

I mean be aware and careful, but there’s no harm in following up. Don’t give any information. Sounds fishy to me though. Maybe ask them to call you with more information.

[dense fiber]

I wouldn't even call them, its clearly obvious they're scam since i track my applications

[proven crest]

There you go then, that’s your answer. Some sites will give out or sell your CV in batches to recruiters (anyone with a recruiter account. I can make and pay for one if I wanted). I think CV library is one that does (or did) that.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, recruiters aren't necessarily bad. They're paid to find you jobs, and work really hard to get resumes to pitch to clients.

[small geode]

This is just me personally, but if I get texted or, even worse, DMed through a messaging app about an opportunity from a random "recruiter," I'm banking on spam 10 times out of 10.

[wanton birch]

You are misunderstanding it. It is not a PCB designer job. It is a software developer job where you write control and simulation software for their stuff. The PCB, project management and Customer Services are additional duty. They emphasise that they are looking for a go getter who keeps everything running sort of.

[proven crest]

That’s a recruiter though. I’m clearly not one, but I could get a bunch of resumes just as easily. I’m saying be critical. If they sound fishy and approach you is strange ways it’s probably not a recruiter.

[zenith rain]

pyrex pepe hacker pfp, insane

[proven crest]

That sounds intense. Must be a very small, family run kind of company

[wanton birch]

Lol! Look at this sub requirements section from a job I’m looking at :

*Computer and technology knowledge*

Android
Business intelligence
Cloud
Information Technology Infrastructure Library (ITIL)
Matrix Laboratory (MATLAB)
Microsoft Dynamics AX (x++)
Microsoft Visual Studio
Model-View-Controller (MVC)
OpenGL
PowerBuilder
Salesforce
Shell script
Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF)
Xcode
CICS
ASP
Assembler
C
C++
Linux
Linux - PSOS
Device drivers
Linux - VxWorks RTOS
Networking software
Fortran
Networking hardware
HTML
MS Windows
Networking security
DHTML
Intranet
Internet
XML Technology (XSL,XSD,DTD)
Servers
Desktop applications
Enterprise Applications Integration (EAI)
Java
Oracle Solaris
File management software
JavaScript
JSP
Unix
CSS
Multimedia software
VMS
Applet
Word processing software
X Windows
Object-Oriented programming languages
Presentation software
Mail server software
PHP
Communication software
Basic
Image editing software
VB Script
J#
HTML editing software
Visual C++ / MFC
Website creation and management software
Zim
Web service design
.NET
Business diagram software
C#
SQL
Desktop publishing software
Mapping and data visualization software
Database software
Programming languages
Software development
Data analysis software
MS Office
Spreadsheet
Oracle
TCP/IP
Angular.js
Git
Gulp
Haskell
Objective-C
React.js
Ruby
SASS
Python ```

[fringe sphinx]

That weas a hiring manager telling HR "I don't have time for this s***"

[small geode]

Ah yes, my cross-platform XML viewer written in Fortran with a React front-end that accesses my Oracle DB through a C# API which is a backend to the front-end Python API

[wanton birch]

Does it look bad if you apply for multiple different roles in the same company?

[fringe sphinx]

Not really, no

[near ocean]

You should keep track of them and maybe mention it to your contact that you applied to other teams

[wanton birch]

I do keep track. Documenting it all and tracking has become an OCD thing by now lol

[feral igloo]

Is 24 learning programming too late for a career change?

[hearty island]

damnit grant thornton why you gotta do me like that fam

[near ocean]

No

@wanton birch most places tell you to not apply to more ads than X and/or to let them know if and when you do
Im not sure if this is to make admin easier for them or to discourage you from applying to a bunch of job ads

[small geode]

100% no. Your 20s is still considered very young. My coworker didn't change careers until his 50s...

[sleek egret]

yar

[feral igloo]

Some lucky dude I guess

[small geode]

Luck had nothing to do with it

[sleek egret]

how is that lucky?

[small geode]

He used his industry experience, learned what he needed to learn, and applied to the job as someone extremely knowledgeable in the domain.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, domain knowledge is the secret 10xer power up.

[sleek egret]

I find it odd that people who think they can learn enough to be a professional programmer with a few years of study (at most) think that it can ever be too late to learn how to program.

[feral igloo]

That's a fact though

[sleek egret]

I mean, if it only takes 1 to 3 years, it only takes 1 to 3 years. whether you're 20 or 40.

[feral igloo]

Thankyou for such positive comments. I really need it.

[faint field]

Can anyone tell me about the career options in Python machine learning? I am 15

[fringe sphinx]

Also, there are many jobs in tech. Not everyone is a SWE. QA, devops, technical / pre sales, implementation, etc

[wanton birch]

None of the jobs I’ve seen told me anything about not applying to more than X. Maybe that’s not common in Canada.

[sleek egret]

the programming language is incidental. today python is popular, in 10 years it'll be some other language

[sleek egret]

what you need to focus on are the fundamentals: i.e. math

[feral igloo]

True

[faint field]

ok..

[sleek egret]

to echo what @fringe sphinx said... most people working in tech are not "techies" (developers, sysops, etc)

[faint field]

but I can do programming on the side can I? Wont AI replace programmers? just a question

[sleek egret]

who will create the AI's that replace the programmers?

[faint field]

US

[sleek egret]

who is US?

[dense fiber]

the definition of 'just throw everything at it and see what sticks!'

[faint field]

us programmers

[sleek egret]

well, there you go then

[small geode]

AI is not and so far cannot be "sentient" or good enough to do what programmers do. I mention sentient because it takes actual thought to solve the issues programmers solve.

[dense fiber]

i'd like to see it try

[fringe sphinx]

Oh man, does anyone call them sys ops anymore?

[sleek egret]

I do

[fringe sphinx]

Throws me back to my bbs days

[sleek egret]

they don't operate developers, after all

I'm ok calling them sysmans (i.e. "systems managers")

[small geode]

(i.e. i.e. "sysadmins")

[sleek egret]

but do they actually "administer" systems?

[small geode]

Yes, they inject you with systems.

[sleek egret]

I guess they do

[sleek egret]

someday perhaps, someday

[small geode]

😂

[wanton birch]

How many lines of code do you guys write in a day for work?

[fringe sphinx]

Snarky or non snarky response?

[sleek egret]

IIRC, various studies have shown that a typical software developer writes around 10 fully debugged SLOC per day. that is, of whatever he does, 10 SLOC make it to production

[wanton birch]

Legit responses only.

From my project and research related experiences, 95% of the time it was diagnosing all kinds of problems and trying to make it work than writing large code bases

[sleek egret]

writing the code is the easy part. 80% of software development is figuring out exactly what it is you're trying to create. 10% is writing the code, 10% is debugging it, 10% is documentation. and then 20% is writing and debugging all over again.

(and yes, I'm aware that adds up to over 100%)

[fringe sphinx]

I wear a lot of hats, and nobody counts, but when I sit down to really work on a problem, I imagine a few hundred+. A really productive marathon session where everything aligns, maybe 1000 but that happens rarely. Realistically, it probably averages like rmah said

(I’m talking: inspiration hits and I’m just cranking away at a new module)

[sleek egret]

I bet you do more than 10 :-). after all, your typical developer isn't very efficient

[wanton birch]

Well I can do thousand lines a day as long as compiling, debugging, etc all is left to someone else 🤣

[unreal turtle]

employers wont care about hs eboard stuff right?

[wanton birch]

Does it even work?

I don’t know! That’s not my department 🤣

[sleek egret]

what is "hs eboard stuff"?

[unreal turtle]

high school executive board for a club

[small geode]

Ehhhh probably not unless it's an internship

[sleek egret]

they might care a tiny bit for internships during your first year or two of university

[unreal turtle]

like internships in high school?

[fringe sphinx]

It’s normal to put activities in your resume. Probably won’t care but doesn’t hurt

[unreal turtle]

what if im a senior, is it worth adding high school eboard stuff on linkedin profile?

[fringe sphinx]

Same thing, doesn’t hurt. People probably won’t care

[small geode]

I wouldn't expect much to come from employment in the tech industry out of high school, just saying

[fringe sphinx]

I do look at extra curriculars when interviewing, and ask about them, mostly to see how the interviewee talks about stuff they’re involved in.

[sleek egret]

I don't

unless it's something extraordinary, I guess

[wanton birch]

I applied for a funny C++ based job where they specified “No Agile!” Lmao! I want to know the backstory

[sleek egret]

if you like to write specs and make detailed plans before you start developing, that's great

[fringe sphinx]

My first job was for a iso9001 defense contractor. I don’t recall writing code, but man did I wrote documents

Would you like to learn about cmm level 5? (Shudders)

[sleek egret]

back in the day, before this agile shite, I spent about as much time requirements gathering/planning/writing specs as I did developing and debugging. and that was considered rushing things.

[sleek egret]

lol, I did a couple DoD contracts when I was younger... never again

[wanton birch]

Why not?

[sleek egret]

the amount of bureaucratic bs and constantly shifting requirements is insane

[wanton birch]

Shifting requirements seems good for business

[sleek egret]

as it was not my company, I did not care

[fringe sphinx]

And the pay isn’t good

[wanton birch]

I see that in many aerospace jobs. A lot of clearance and regulatory stuff to burden yourself with for a pay that isn’t even competitive with non Defence sector tech jobs

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps but, perhaps it’s helpful in that industry.

[wanton birch]

Maybe for them. I’m thinking from time/effort/responsibility investment and what you get out of it in return

[unreal turtle]

do you look at high school extracurriculars?

[unreal turtle]

so its not worth adding hs eboard on linkedin then?

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, I don’t care about them, but I (sometimes) use them as a conversation starter.

[unreal turtle]

im not going to have it on my resume, just on my linkedin though

[fringe sphinx]

I think standard advice is: add them. Doesn’t hurt. LinkedIn makes sense

[proven crest]

If youre fresh out of high school it's probably pretty relevant. If you're fresh out of college, I guess its ok to have, does no harm. extracurriculars from college would be more relevant. If you're years past both of these, probably don't. IMO for a CV. I think LinkedIn is fine as you add pretty much everything

[true harness]

if you're in college, no one really cares about hs stuff. unless you're a freshman

[proven crest]

Yeah probably

[hearty island]

another day another rejection from deloitte 😦

[unreal turtle]

dont add it on a cv?

[proven crest]

I wouldn’t in my opinion, unless you’re fresh out of high school.

[unreal turtle]

makes a lot of sense

you still failed to answer my question of whether or not i should add high school eboard on linkedin though

[proven crest]

I did answer that, I said in my opinion it’s fine. People generally put everything on LinkedIn. If they don’t care they won’t read that far down

[unreal turtle]

i see

it wont hurt me if i dont add it right?

[proven crest]

Ofc not

[unreal turtle]

ill leave it off, it looks cleaner that way

is there anyway to contact linkedin and discord to add a particular feature i want?

[small geode]

Submitting feedback would probably be your only option and even then, you'll be lost in a vast sea of complaints. It's rather difficult to just suggest a feature and something happen without major community backing

[unreal turtle]

LOL

do they even read the complaints?

[small geode]

It is one team's job to, yes

[unreal turtle]

You have a link for that?

[small geode]

For?

[unreal turtle]

LinkedIn feedback

[small geode]

I don't exactly keep it tucked away, no. You'll likely find it if you search "linkedin feedback"

[unreal turtle]

hopefully they add it

[pastel thunder]

updated the description, how does look how. Last time one mods said contribution wass unclear or vague

[fringe sphinx]

My two cents: I like it. Would like to see more info about what tech you used at cmu and mitsu. Ie; used Python and PyTorch to do xyz. A little more ‘how’

[pastel thunder]

ok cool, space is kinda running out, should i write it on right side?

[fringe sphinx]

Again, just my opinion (get a second) but the fourth cmu bullet seems kinda throwaway. Of course you read a lot of papers/etc

[pastel thunder]

yup it is, kind of wanted to include numbers

[small geode]

That would truthfully be skimmed over with no significance

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I’d rather see you throw in opencv and others words I’d recognize

[pastel thunder]

yah, good idea i did use it a lot of times

i have openCV python pytorch MATLAB here in project section, can i skip over there?

[fringe sphinx]

I think listing these types of tools sends a message that you’re hands on, can write code, and is ready to learn

I have no idea what the moment retrieval one is saying. Maybe I’m being dense

That’s a stylistic question. I tend to not see that skills text, because I go straight to the bullets.

When I skim resumes, I look at most recent experience, first three bullets or so. Then I check education. Then I might keep reading

[pastel thunder]

Is it due to english of technicality

[fringe sphinx]

I think grammatically it seems wrong

[pastel thunder]

so you mean, in-between text is better, if HR was you

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I’d rather see it in the bullet. ‘Use PyTorch to measure shark laser efficacy’

(I dunno, that’s a little simplistic but you get the idea

Just to be clear; this is a good resume, i’m just picking at details.

[pastel thunder]

yes but keep going, it was pathetic before, you guys are helping me iterate over it.

[fringe sphinx]

The projects stuff would be a good opportunity say less and include the technical skills. You’re not going to convey the full scope of it, but try to ELI5, list the technologies used, and maybe link to a publication

[uneven swift]

@pastel thunder I would recommend you to put a GitHub link in front of project headings instead of tools used.

[pastel thunder]

on-it, plus farming some badges too😝

[uneven swift]

Make sure you put a a separate link for each project and projects should have a good readme.md files so whenver someone go to that repo
he/she can understand what's the project about without having to check code/directories.

[stuck girder]

Hey yall Im working on a startup with AI. Have some VCs interested. Looking for some programmers looking to hop aboard for some equity. Let me know!

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[small geode]

Can we start a game where we take a shot everytime the word "AI startup" or "Web3 startup" appear in a sentence?

[fringe sphinx]

Isn’t it web4 now?

[small geode]

I wouldn't be surprised if it pulled a PowerShell and went to Web7

[fringe sphinx]

Im going to capitalize the paradigm shift to ai enabled ideation in the technology enabled web9 landscape.

[small geode]

Core Web9 Ultra?

[fringe sphinx]

Also “got some VCs interested”; that’s their game, they’re always interested until it’s time to write a check. Then they’re not so friendly.

[unreal turtle]

have you taken aws before?

[native girder]

Is anybody an English UK native speaker?

[pastel thunder]

One more question, i want to keep experience above education. i think i have enough to discuss as internships, projects

[small geode]

Probably several. What's your question though?

[native girder]

I have to prepare for an oral, and my teacher really wants us to write our texts as if we were native speakers

[small geode]

I'm confused on what the ask is then? This channel is specifically for career discussion

[native girder]

So, if anybody can check my text and tell me the mistakes i didn't disagree 🙂

[native girder]

anything, i didn't find a generel channel

[fringe sphinx]

Does it have anything to do with Python?

[small geode]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[native girder]

oh ok sorry the name are...confusing

[hearty island]

omg i got a response from a quant firm

damn they said to reapply closer to graduation 😦

[fringe sphinx]

At least not a no!

[small geode]

^

[hearty island]

their salary is ode

[fringe sphinx]

Quants a fascinating space, I’m adjacent to it

My advice for a stand out resume is; contribute to popular project in your domain. Data engineer? Go contribute to pandas, etc

Most projects have a ‘good first issue’ tag in their git issues

[hearty island]

it's for a project management position

i honestly just googled quant firms and then applied

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, then also google hedge funds and fintech

[hearty island]

on it

[hearty island]

does the name renaissance tech mean anything to you? that's where i got the response from

[fringe sphinx]

Lol.

Like, lolol. RenTech is like the biggest name out there, next to citadel

[hearty island]

so i'm honored lmaooo to even get a response

[fringe sphinx]

There’s books written about that place. Go read them, it’s great stuff

[hearty island]

well if i can network with them then maybe it's something

[fringe sphinx]

You go their and your career is set. You’ll never leave. Etc. super secretive, afaik

[hearty island]

well now i have one of their super secret emails

[modern ore]

Probably competitive asf and hard to get pass interviews, maybe it’s easier for PM roles

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Solved-Market-Revolution-ebook/dp/B07P1NNTSD/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=501a29a7-075c-4ab3-91cf-2a05f18708cd

[hearty island]

she also spelled my name wrong, but still happy to hear back from them 💀

[vapid jay]

hi guys i am new in freelancer on upwork and my customer scheduled a meeting my question is how the meeting works i added it to my google calendat but what will be happen on the schedule time can u explain it?

[warped veldt]

im a beginner in python i knew all the basics and more than a half of the functions still need to know the modules but i dont know how to learn them can yall help

[vapid jay]

go into projects do not waste your time

you learn things on the way

[queen thunder]

I am python expert with over 8 years.

I am ready to contribute to python projects.

[wanton birch]

Good for you! Wish you all the best.

[queen thunder]

Thank you.

[wanton birch]

How!?

[fringe sphinx]

How what?

[wanton birch]

Clone,Add,Commit,Push?

[true harness]

fork first, usually, and of course you need a PR, and an issue to work on

[sleek egret]

usually you should make a branch before you add, commit and push

[wanton birch]

I’ve never contributed to an open source project like that. So asking

[wanton birch]

Yeah sadly all I’ve ever done is my own things.

[wanton birch]

Is there any helpful guide on this? This might help me learn more.

[sleek egret]

better starting there than starting with never having done anything

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so; what you’ll learn contributing to a project is immensely valuable. Find a project, figure out how to build it, find a good first issue, and try to figure it out.

None of this is easy.

[wanton birch]

Well I will do that and the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard! 🤣

[inner forge]

What yall think about ML

[small geode]

In what relation to careers? As a career?

[vapid jay]

ML has future

[inner forge]

Yeah career

[small geode]

This is a very vague question...

[inner forge]

It is

[small geode]

Right, so there's really nothing to say unless you can be a bit specific? It's a job like SWE and any other? You might enjoy it, you might not? It involves math.

[inner forge]

I learned python. But i am not sure if i should do backend,ml, or other things.

I saw a future in Ml cuz of chat GPT or other stuff

Its getting wider and wider

[small geode]

We can't exactly tell you the route to take, nor should you listen to us with what you should do with your future. If AI/ML interests you, I don't see why you shouldn't pursue it. As mentioned earlier today though, it isn't all glamore. The majority of your work is spent grabbing and tweaking data as you need it, before you ever even start thinking about the model itself.

[inner forge]

Do you maybe know where i can learn Ml

[sleek egret]

I'd venture to guess that 80% of people who think AI/ML is interesting don't know anything about what working in the AI/ML space actually involves

hint: it's mostly data management and math

[small geode]

Your best bet is college.

[wanton birch]

Ah college! The answer to everything.

[small geode]

I know you're being sarcastic. I normally do advocate self-teaching where possible, it's simply unfeasible for that to happen in AI/ML though.

[inner forge]

Yes i know that. After i heared that, i wasnt sure about to contunie AI/ML and im still not sure. but i am trying to learn different areas much as possible. To choose an area

[sleek egret]

for a career in AI/ML, it pretty much is. it's already quite difficult to work in the field without an advanced degree and will soon become even harder.

[wanton birch]

Oh I didn’t mean much by it. The reality is that you’ll end up needing a strong degree to compete. So it makes no sense to not invest in that if you are serious about a career.

But for me personally, the education system just doesn’t or didn’t work. I never liked how things were taught and mostly relied on going out and finding the info and teaching myself outside of class hours. I am eternally grateful that engineering degrees have a tonne of course work, projects and stuff which is how I loved learning and they let me do well. If it was just attending classes and then taking exams, I’d have not gotten any of my degrees so far.

[sleek egret]

you're supposed to put in 2 hours of outside work for every hour of lecture at university

(not that I did. but that's the suggested norm)

[harsh river]

in mine it's 3

[wanton birch]

Lectures typically made me fall asleep and I have super awkward stories about that one 🤣

[sleek egret]

if they were fun, they'd be called "performances", "plays" or "concerts" or something like that, rather than "lectures" 🙂

[true harness]

I thought they needed to be called "fun" to be fun

[wanton birch]

Not to mention that I probably lack discipline. I can’t let someone else tell me I have to show up Monday morning at 8 to learn numerical methods. That’s simply not how it works for me. Maybe I want to fuck around with my arduino on Monday!

[true harness]

and if work tells you to work on work?

[sleek egret]

wasn't it woody allen that said "80% of success is just showing up"?

[wanton birch]

Then I will make my own routine and deliver

[sleek egret]

I also want to do what I want when I want.

[wanton birch]

Lectures and work are different. For example, I can show up at a warehouse and work the whole day because that is work. I signed a contract to help and I will do it to the best of my abilities. But studying a subject is different.

[sleek egret]

studying is work too

[true harness]

knowledge jobs are different from warehouse jobs though

[wanton birch]

I guess you can frame it as work but I am just being honest that as a student I never thought of it that way. Maybe because I was stupider then

[sleek egret]

except it's such awesome and fun work that you pay them instead of them paying you!

(that was sarcasm, btw 🙂

[sleek egret]

I was a poor student as well. I feel your pain.

[wanton birch]

That reminds me of this time a graduate student was dealing with a Linux system so their supervisor asked me to help since I was familiar. We spent hours diagnosing and fault finding and then I made a joke about “imagine the day we will finally get paid for doing pretty much the same”. As in, whether it works or not, we’d be on the clock.

[sleek egret]

did you know that, back in the day, trades apprentices (carpenters, bakers, cobblers, smiths, printers, tailers, etc.) were not paid? the apprentice (or his family) paid the master instead.

[wanton birch]

Ever feel like you wasted too much time doing things other than your school things?

[sleek egret]

no, I don't feel guilt or regret

[wanton birch]

Nope! Didn’t know that. But then again, back in the day you could also own a human being as your property!

[wanton birch]

Out of context that makes you sound like a psychopath 🤣

[sleek egret]

this is true. you could also sell your rental agreement (as the renter)

[sleek egret]

I just don't see the point about worrying about things you can't do anything about. and I can't change the past, so why worry?

[wanton birch]

Whoa! How old are you, my man!

[sleek egret]

not that old. most of that sort of thing faded away by the 1700's

[wanton birch]

Fair enough!

[sleek egret]

the right to farm land owned by a noble was valuable because the alternative was near starvation

or just starvation, I guess

[wanton birch]

Well! Maybe I should just do something like that. Grow my own and try to survive that way. It’s been a year of job hunting in a new country. Maybe it is time

[sleek egret]

that's a good way to live in abject poverty!

[wanton birch]

Still better than nothing. So if you know a nobleman in Canada, please put in a few good words in my favour.

I wonder if a different career path might prove better. Like setting up software sweatshops in the east and running the western front for that.

[sleek egret]

a lot of those will get driven out of business by AI in the next decade

[hearty island]

tiger global management?

[sleek egret]

a lot of the business of low-end software outsource shops in poorer nations involve fixing bug reports/trouble tickets. so tasks with simple problems, (relatively) clear acceptance criteria and a well known codebase, perfect fodder for AI's

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, you’re just listing the big boys. I think tiger did terrible last year, iirc tho. Like epically bad

[hearty island]

yeah i just read about it. still will apply tho 🤡

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, why not

[sleek egret]

good luck

[wanton birch]

Are they the same as Tiger Analytics?

[sleek egret]

he probably means Tiger Global Management (https://www.tigerglobal.com/), out of NYC

[hearty island]

yep

[sleek egret]

be aware, Tiger is not a large firm, only a couple hundred people

[hearty island]

hmmmm. alright. thanks for the warning

[sleek egret]

most of these boutique hedge funds have surprisingly small headcounts

[hearty island]

i'm shocked renaissance tech sent an actual reply instead of an automated rejection. maybe they liked me?

[sleek egret]

that would be great if they did

[wanton birch]

Let’s hope so

[sleek egret]

it's 5pm, do you know where you coffee is?

[wanton birch]

!?

[hearty island]

i drink coffee in the morning

ohhh this is the place i applied to ten billion times. point 72.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, which is a great opportunity for us software folks

[hearty island]

some of these firms make it very hard to find their careers page lol

[glass warren]

I’m going into college this fall. I want to be as prepared as possible by my 2nd/3rd year so that I can land a good internship

I’m planning on working towards some certification thru Microsoft or Google or Amazon just do that I can say I have it haha, but I’m not too sure I really wanna work in any of those companies

I see a lot of recommendations about grinding leet/neetcode, but idrk if I should start this early on

Should I? I know I’m gonna need knowledge of algorithms and data structures for the higher level questions, but where do I even get that knowledge from? Books? Videos? Which ones

[gritty rivet]

Do whatever you feel like, honestly. LeetCode is more useful for interview prep but if it gets you engaged, great.

The three companies you mention are the big three cloud providers. Again, if that's something that you are interested in, sure, go for it. (These cers aren't so much desired by those companies as they are by their customers... And many software companies are working on one of their platforms.)

Books are good, but the most important thing is to build stuff. Anything that interests you, as long as you're solving problems and learning.

[fringe sphinx]

I think leetcode is good in moderation, but I’d wait till after dsa. Get varied experience, maybe look for an open source project you can contribute to.

[wanton birch]

Please give me advice regarding exactly this subject

[fickle marten]

ah

x2

[fringe sphinx]

?

[royal apex]

🙂

[glass warren]

Yea, I’m interested in cloud security/engineering as well as machine learning

Are you suggesting that the carts would only be worth the time and effort if the goal is to go specifically to those companies?

[glass warren]

Dsa as in the college course?

[fringe sphinx]

Others may disagree, but I think there's plenty to do freshman year other than leetcode.

And leetcode is helpful for getting through an interview round, sure, but it doesn't make your resume more impressive.

[true harness]

unless you win something cool

[glass warren]

Such as

I would love to do some personal projects but I don’t really have anything I can think of to do hahaha

[fringe sphinx]

I keep saying: find an open source project that interests you and get involved.

Almost every project has a backlog of issues, some marked ‘good first issue’

[fringe sphinx]

https://goodfirstissue.dev/

[wanton birch]

Thanks! How do I save this message!!

[wanton birch]

I meant on the subject of learning DSA well and practicing leetcode. All with the goal of doing well in technical interviews.

[fringe sphinx]

I just think good engineers should be well balanced. Not too much of any one thing (coming out of school), but leetcode is a useful tool… but not the goal.

[hearty island]

ooh point 72 switched to greenhouse

i remember back in the old days when their job app site didn't even recognize my college and i had to mark it as "Other" 😦

[glass warren]

wym

good first issue as in the first issue someones ever done?

[true harness]

the tag indicates they are issues that require relatively little knowledge about the project. it's a good introduction to the project

[drowsy ledge]

Doing side projects vs solving a bunch of leetcode problem, which one is more impressive to interviewers? My main passion is about create something. But it's seems like in my school (gifted) everyone doesn't have the same passion as I am, everyone just flexing on how many leetcode, codeforces, etc. problems they've solved. It really bothers me about my future if I keep make side projects. Am the one who's wrong here?

[wanton birch]

If I had to guess, I'd think it is the leetcode that might impress people more. Mostly because they'd witness all of it in person live! They get to feel like that particular thing has been assessed appropriately (by them) while your projects they probably have little time to actually scrutinise and check/validate.

[wanton birch]

Is the site out of date? I checked one example and it says it was closed in 2020. Not sure.

[drowsy ledge]

So... even if I wanted to work for a job on frontend or server backend, I still need to solve leetcode? I'm finding the point of doing it...

[wanton birch]

Do you build frontend and backend stuff without programming or dealing with data?

[summer roost]

they're useful for different things. Projects, internships, prior work experience, a BS CS degree, etc all help make your resume look more attractive, to help you get an interview. Once you get an interview, you're likely going to have to write some code in front of the interviewers. Leetcode can help you practice for that, since it's small, self-contained and well-described programming problems designed to be solved on a relatively short timeline.

of the two, I'd weigh writing code and building projects as more important. Getting past the initial resume screening and getting an interview is often where fresh grads need the most help. Someone who has built a lot of projects can probably get the hang of solving interview-style questions pretty quickly, though it wouldn't hurt to brush up a bit on Data Structures and Algorithms before the interview

[agile sandal]

pros and cons of being a developer or software engineer?

[summer roost]

those are two names for the same job (at least in most countries)

[nocturne gull]

imo, working on actual projects that will have a real world utility is much better than just solving buncha problems. it's gonna help you understanding how to manage multiple tasks and not only one at a time (like in a coding problem you find online). it's an actual challenge, one that you pose against yourself and your creativity.

[wanton birch]

Where I come from, a developer is a real estate building company 😂

[drowsy ledge]

I know quite a lot of algorithms and data structures, but I find it hard to keep up with everyone else, since I love doing projects. I'm still in high school tho

[nocturne gull]

but what do i know, i'm making my own and i'm facing a problem i'm stuck on. if anybody wants to help i've made a post about it 🤣

[summer roost]

I assume they meant "software developer"

[agile sandal]

like pros and cons of anything that has to do with cs in the workforce

[wanton birch]

link?

[nocturne gull]

#1120550734002397305

[summer roost]

oh, then you're worrying about this prematurely. The path with the best chance of landing you a good, stable job as a software developer is going to uni and getting a BS degree in Computer Science or Software Engineering

[drowsy ledge]

So it's nothing wrong for me to keep my side projects going right?

[wanton birch]

I don't know why chess keeps following me everywhere. I hope you get some nice help.

[summer roost]

right

[drowsy ledge]

Should I stop eventually to focus on collage?

[wanton birch]

When you go to college, you'll most likely be doing all kinds of things. Even outside of college, you'll probably be having to do all kinds of things. Life isn't a single task thing. So why are you framing it as though you can only do one or the other?

[nocturne gull]

as soon as you feel like you can't handle it anymore, studies come first. especially college (cause it's paid) so don't fk with your mental health only to continue a project (like i did for 2 years)

[wanton birch]

You've been messing with that chess thing for 2 years?

[nocturne gull]

oh no, another project, it was my main "income"

selenium related and sneakers game, not too proud of it but hey, money is money and i was offering a service

right now i'm messing with a lot of things chess related. one of which with another engineer from my city, will probably become a product you can buy online or diy with open source code

[drowsy ledge]

Because I like making stuff, I could stay up like 3 am to work on a project, but can't even focus on a problem for more than 2 hours. So here I am, asking questions because I'm having anxiety about what I like doing the most.

I can solve leetcode problems, but not the hard one, I don't find learning hard algorithms appealing to me rn.

[wanton birch]

When do you think you will start applying for jobs? I mean, how many years from now?

[drowsy ledge]

About 5 - 6 years if I didn't skip collage...

[wanton birch]

So you have 5-6 years to level up to solving hard ones reliably.

[drowsy ledge]

But my school got to segment tree, just finished backtracking :(

[wanton birch]

I don't understand what this has to do with your school. You can already solve the easy and mediums. You have 5/6 more years to practice the hard ones.

[drowsy ledge]

My school forces students to keep up and do the hard ones, if someone do it poorly, they will be expelled. Typical asian school.

[wanton birch]

Oh! You mean your high school expects you to pass hard leetcode problems to stay enrolled. That sounds insane to me.

[drowsy ledge]

Yup. In my country, gifted program is like collage, but a bit more harsh. We had to learn at least for loop, array, 2d array, sort, binary search,... in middle school just to get a chance to enroll in it.

o' well, back to side project because my school expects every class to have at least one project to participate in "science & technology" (idk what to call it in english)

[summer roost]

"STEM", perhaps - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science,_technology,_engineering,_and_mathematics

[drowsy ledge]

Oh. 😅

Alright thank y'all for taking time to answer all of my questions, I appreciate it very much.

[cyan valley]

Hi, i'm currently in college learning Java, and I would like to be a A.I / ML engineer, should I take this somewhat seriously?

[crisp stream]

"this" being what?

[swift halo]

This might be a naive question: is there a skill I can learn within programming that will allow me to make a modest living online? Fully online cause I can't get a job in my country, so it has to be an online only thing. Modest living preferably cause I'm not that good nor smart haha ❤️

[kind bronze]

Hi, devs
If you are a kind of react, react native, golang developer,
please share me your profile such as github or portfolio.

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 9 , this not place for adds. delete your msg.

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> 25 days fresh adds account

[tender frost]

I... think they could just be looking for tips on their own portfolio based on their bio

[buoyant seal]

fair point. this is may be possibility. still kind of wrong place to ask for frontend and golang devs at Python server

[radiant cedar]

Hobbyist: Is it reasonable to think that one could self-teach Python/SQL/Tableau using Codecademy and online resources, make projects, and get a reasonable salaried job from it?

[dense fiber]

with hard work, discipline, and some luck, yes

[near ocean]

The projects would have to be of a much higher quality than what a graduate would need to showcase
Graduates already show that they can be dependent upon to show up consistently and learn X, Y and Z things

tl;dr it will be very hard

[proven crest]

Relax, this is a place to ask for help, if you can help great, share a resource. If not being a backseat mod, making assumptions and being generally hostile to a newcomer isn’t helpful to anyone.

[lime wren]

Bro don't reveal your discord bot token

[faint field]

What are the applications of Python in the field of Astrophysics? Got any ideas?

[lime wren]

Oh

[proven crest]

Yes, its certainly possible, but as others have said, its hard work. You'll need to be committed, you'll need to schedule learning yourself, you'll need to find good resources, you'll need to create unique projects. You won't have the structure a degree provides, nor will you have a degree to prove your all round competence. That being said you also won't have a debt and could achieve your goals in less than 4 years.

[hearty island]

interesting, d.e shaw group emailed me back

"Thank you for your interest in the D. E. Shaw group. We do not consider a Personal Statement or Cover Letter to be a valid writing sample and request that you send us a different, expository writing sample that is ideally several pages long (but no longer than 15 pages; an excerpt from a larger work is welcome), entirely your own work, and unedited by anyone else.

Potential examples could include an essay, article, proposal, legal brief, or term paper. Please avoid submitting cover letters, resumes, technical writing, creative writing (i.e., fiction), or statements of purpose as your writing sample. We would like to see writing that you are particularly proud of, and not necessarily a sample of an average day’s work.

Please attach a PDF or Word document in response to this email.

Sincerely,
Human Capital │ Recruiting
D. E. Shaw & Co., L.P."

[proven crest]

I'm not sure, but I know theres a library for astronomy, Astropy. Maybe a good palce to start looking?

[hearty island]

thought they'd outright reject me

[proven crest]

What is this job?

[faint field]

sure, Thanks a lot..

[hearty island]

"technical project manager - human capital"

[proven crest]

Interesting..

[hearty island]

right?

[proven crest]

I mean if you have a dissertation, go for it

[hearty island]

i have an essay about machine learning i wrote for fun

let's see what they say lol

in the mean time i got rejected twice from spotify, once from avantor, and once from T Mobile

[proven crest]

Wew, all big names

Whats your experience like if you don't mind me asking?

[hearty island]

i’m a college student with 9 months of project management experience who’s graduating may 2024

[proven crest]

Thats pretty good! How did you get 9 months of project management exp? Is that what you want to get into?

[hearty island]

i had an internship where i was doing project management for a third party administrator in healthcare. and yes

[hearty island]

i actually have a contract for me to return in september and continue the internship and then eventually get hired as a full time project manager

[proven crest]

Nice, thats really good experience! Keep going, you might be facing rejection because you're not graduating until next year

[hearty island]

that’s what i think tbh, because why else would so many companies actually send rejection emails. they’d ghost

[proven crest]

If I was hiering for a project manager and I saw you didn't graduate until next year I wouldn't even consider you

[hearty island]

yeah renaissance tech told me to apply again when i’m closer to my graduation date

[proven crest]

It's mean, but they're also busy and from their perspective it might be a bit of a "why is this guy wasting my time" kind of thing.

I'd hold off on even applying until you're closer IMO

[hearty island]

yeah maybe i can work more on my CAPM course work

[proven crest]

I'd say that is a priority!

[hearty island]

would you say around september is a good time to start re applying?

[proven crest]

I'd say anywhere from 3 months before should be a good time. Some processes take that long.