career-advice

[summer roost]

Possibly... did they go into careers that are related to their major? Were their degrees in tech or STEM?

[vapid jay]

I work at geek squad how do I get a real it job

[coral vine]

Yes! It is all over the internet and reddit. They say the same thing. And a lot of them never learn how to do programming. They just get stuck having to do 50+ interviews, they already did 2 internships, got their bachelors, etc.

It's like they plateau in some aspect that school never covers

[summer roost]

oh, so like - not people you know, but just randos on the internet?

[coral vine]

both !

[summer roost]

I'd be inclined to say that the strangers-on-the-internet stuff is more caused by the loudest voices being the people who are most dissatisfied. Things don't work out for everyone (a full half of all graduates are below average, after all), and the ones who have the worst experiences are by far the ones most likely to be sharing their story online without being asked to. Couple that with a bit of confirmation bias - you've heard some people say that uni isn't that useful, and now you start to identify more with those unprompted stories about how uni didn't work out for those online strangers. But you're only hearing part of the story, because the people who went to uni and then got a job in their field that they find more or less satisfying are unlikely to be sharing their opinions on the value of university education online at all

[coral vine]

Also, I see all of this as true for my friend who graduated from a good university but that is not how she shared it with me. She was the one who mentioned about corporate structures varying greatly and that I won't get much out my bachelors o.O

yet she did get a good job and paid more than people who have been working there for years and way faster acceptance into that job o.O maybe she is unaware of all this?

[summer roost]

well - she's your friend, so I think you'd get more value out of asking her than from me speculating. It could be that she's not seeing the advantages she got. It could be that she's too young to see how much those advantages can compound. It might be worth asking her how many of her coworkers have degrees, and if she has any insight into whether the ones with and without degrees are getting the same pay.

for what it's worth, even the self taught people who hang out in this channel who did successfully break into tech will tell you that they think they did it the hard way, and they'd sooner recommend people get degrees. I've heard many people with degrees say that it took them a hundred applications to land a job after uni, but I've heard self-taught people say that it took them close to a thousand applications.

[coral vine]

don't most of the people you interact with also say that they didn't get much out of their bachelors program? well.... unless you are around people that got into the really good programs then it makes sense you wouldn't hear bad things about the bachelors program

[summer roost]

I've been out of uni for about 15 years at this point. The people I interact with don't regularly have conversations about the value of their bachelor's program at all. I don't think I've ever interacted with someone working in tech with a bachelors degree who said they regretted getting it, though.

[coral vine]

that's a really good point! she must be too young to see the long term gains. she did automatically get paid more than others who have been working there for years upon her entry. don't know if she made the connection that it may be due to her degree.

[summer roost]

the degree would definitely be one part of that. Another part would be that people who stay at a job for a long time might wind up only getting small year over year raises, and miss out on big shifts in the market value of their labor. They might not realize that they're being underpaid, basically, because they were paid a fair value when they started, and they might not realize that their raises didn't keep up with what is now a fair value for someone starting out. It's likely a combination of those two factors.

friendly reminder: any year where you don't get a raise that's at least as high as the annual inflation rate, you've taken an effective pay cut

[coral vine]

really? they don't say things like "oh i should have skipped school and become an entrepreneur like Steve Jobs/Elon"? I would think it would be common

[summer roost]

no, that's nonsense. The overwhelming majority of entrepreneurs fail. 90% of startups fail within the first 5 years.

saying "I should have skipped school and become an entrepreneur like Steve Jobs" is about as reasonable a thing to say as "I should have skipped school and won the lottery instead"

I do know people who run their own businesses. None of them are Steve Jobs. 🙂

also... what I do hear a lot from young engineers is that they hate meetings, and project planning, and talking with stakeholders, and wish they could spend more of their time coding. And an entrepreneur's job is overwhelmingly meetings, and project planning, and talking with stakeholders, and very little (if any) coding.

[smoky quest]

There is also some statistic about how the most successful entrepreneurs are older than mid-thirties.

[odd moat]

Yea man meetings are pointless sometimes, people go off topic and just waste everyone's time.

[uncut quest]

I understand that a degree provides a lot of value for students - they build a good foundation that students can then work on to align more closely to their career goals. So that's established.
My question is - whether you've started your career with a degree, or you've worked with new hires that came directly from graduating - what are some things that a degree might not necessarily teach but are equally as important in a job?
I know people mentioned communication and other soft skills. I guess what I'm trying to ask is - if you're already in a degree program, what can you do to fill those gaps to complement your degree?
I know a lot of students grind Leetcode on the side. Same with side projects, learning new technology (tutorial hell?), etc.

[summer roost]

degree programs don't teach much about what it's like to actually work a real job. And they won't necessarily teach a lot of the skills that are relevant to real world jobs - I don't think we were taught any version control systems at my uni, for instance. The single best way to pick up those skills is to try to get internships. Failing that, becoming a regular contributor to a large and established open source project would be a great way to build some of the same skills.

whether internships or work on large and established open source projects, that will help teach some skills related to maintenance of a large existing code base, communication, project planning, prioritization, collaboration, etc.

as well as learning some of the tools that tend to be used in the real world (CI, linting, VCS's, bug trackers, etc)

[sleek egret]

university is not a trade school

[smoky quest]

It's just like any other human activity. The same way some people will get stuck in irrelevant rabbit hole in their code, get distracted by a new shiny feature/techno/complaint/bug, or how you set up to discuss your favorite subject with your friends but ended up talking about something else.
Meetings are just tools and need to be used with purpose

[dreamy spade]

And that’s the problem

[coral vine]

Thanks for sharing your insights! Such a small talk can save so much time and money. I could have almost got scammed again Dx Phew.

[smoky quest]

It's a feature.
University is not meant to train code monkeys or waste times on technologies that will be outdated within months

That's something any student can pick up on their own

[spark cobalt]

From someone that actually lived this, I don't think this is really correct. I've had to train myself on how to communicate by just going to a shit ton of meetups and talking to a bunch of these developers. The first time I've done this, while I understood every word they were saying, it all sounded like Greek, and I had a huge problem grasping the ideas they're trying to convey. It took a lot of practice for me to really get comfortable to talk about technical stuff in an interview situation

Someone who's only ever talked in a student environment (talked to students, people who deals with students, or parents) AKA a high schooler, there's so little training on how to communicate concisely and effectively. Because you never really have a need to do so.

Perhaps your experience is taking this course for granted. Because it was complete opposite for me

And I really cannot imagine a high schooler being able to pick up professional conversations right away without ever doing some sort of training or involvement with the professional environment

[dreamy spade]

To each their own I suppose.

[digital fjord]

A thing to keep in mind about a Bachelor's degree is that it needs to also provide you an overview of a large number of areas of CS to let you make an educated decision on what you want to specialize in.
And well, since most of the time that decision will be "I don't care about this field", you will end up with useless knowledge long-term, but IMO just making that decision with some actual basis has value.

[spark cobalt]

Granted, since you do have a CS degree, you do listen to professionals every week. Being your professors/lectures. On top of discussing with students that have worked in professional environments as well. That would help a lot.

[crisp oracle]

Hello. I’m a self taught python developer, no degree. I’ve been using it for 5 years for various projects. Very few commercial but some. Mostly I love programming and computer science in general. I am confident to take on tasks such as web development like django, sockets, and even some random stuff like AI models, and raspberry pi GPIO code as well.

Where do people find python jobs?
What is required of me, before I can earn a living using python?

[sour tartan]

you have to be able to do useful work in Python, and talk to people enough to work with them.

[smoky quest]

There are freelance related websites like upwork or fiverrr.

Long term, you could look at various ways to upskill yourself or increase your network/clients

[summer roost]

to set expectations, very few jobs will require you to only know Python. It's much more likely that you'll need to also know one or more other languages.

like, someone doing full stack web development in with Django is likely to also need to know HTML and CSS and JavaScript, for instance.

[summer roost]

@crisp oracle have you written a resume? Have you tried looking at job postings in your area to see what skills they require? What's your education history? What's your work history?

[crisp oracle]

Right that's what I meant. Is only python not going to cut it? I don't see how I can make a living from python alone, and upwork and fiverr don't feel like a stable income.

[summer roost]

there are some jobs that require only Python, but many, many more jobs that use Python. If you limit yourself to jobs that require only Python, you're cutting yourself off from most jobs.

[crisp oracle]

The only commercial work I did with python, I only used python + libs.

what do you mean by 'use' python?

[summer roost]

I mean that there are many jobs where someone might need to write primarily Python code, but also write some code in other languages.

[spark cobalt]

I've finally did a bit of Python officially for work yesterday. Super fun

[crisp oracle]

my history, I am a professional musician and I accidentally wandered into music as a career just naturally, but then I realised I don't enjoy it as a career, so I'm sticking to something that is more "useful" to make money. I went to university as a mature student to study music in 2019, but dropped out because of the way I felt + the pandemic

my work history is like, so random I'm not going to get into it, but as far as computer stuff, its all python, but I also develop software with a game engine.

[summer roost]

hm, OK. That doesn't seem to lend itself very well to leveraging your existing skills in a software development capacity, in the way that something like a biology or physics degree would, or work as a financial analyst, or something like that.

[crisp oracle]

yeah im dum dum nobody haha

but I understand threads, sockets. some quite intermediate things. and I'm comfortable using them

i made this physics sound simulation thing

this isn't in python but its in a language similar to python in a game engine (godot)

[summer roost]

the best way to figure out how close your skills are to what employers need is to start looking at job posts and seeing what skills they ask for, and comparing them to what you've got

if you've got most of the skills that a job asks for and think you could pick up the others if needed, apply.

[crisp oracle]

when I looked at python jobs, its all serious business, like way over my head stuff, biology. data science etc

[summer roost]

data science might be the place that's most likely to use only Python and not other languages - though it's likely to require an understanding of databases and statistics, at least

[crisp oracle]

yeah like they will understandably choose someone with a maths degree over mr synth guy

[summer roost]

perhaps, if one applies. But there's a cost to keeping jobs sitting open. You might get lucky and apply to the right job at the right time

[rose elk]

I'm a beginner of learning Python

I love programming

But I don't know what can I do if I learned Python

[modern ore]

Whatever you want

[rotund cove]

make sure you import antigravity

[heady wyvern]

Is college necessary to get those 100k IT or computer science jobs?

[pine sleet]

Not necessary but highly recommended

[heady wyvern]

im going to be a senior next year and have you heard of running start? im going to try and take computer science classes.

I do have a coding background from middle school computer science classes, we primarly used code.org

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[heady wyvern]

Software engineering, is this apart of IT or CS?

[smoky quest]

CS

[pine sleet]

I'm a senior as well, the exact classes you take don't really matter at this stage - just try to feel around and see what you like. And definetely go for a CS degree

[smoky quest]

IT is more about maintaining the infrastructure and CS is more about developing software

[heady wyvern]

the part that confuses me the most is choosing which path to take on, there is many like software engineering, web development, data analyst

[true harness]

it depends on location i think. i think a few countries use IT to refer to SWE as well

[heady wyvern]

Does my GPA matter

Also low GPA vs high GPA colleges?

[pine sleet]

To get into your college, yes. But your HS GPA probably won't matter much to your future employer (might to your internships)

[heady wyvern]

What kind of college should i go to?

[peak halo]

Not even for internships.

[true harness]

i included it before my first semester was over (when i didn't have a college GPA). but i didn't get any internships before second semester, lol

[heady wyvern]

So Computer science is a major, and then it breaks off into branches like software engineer, are these branches called 'fields'?

[peak halo]

Generally speaking, any (accredited) university that offers CS degrees. Going to a university with a prestigious reputation is nice, but as far as your career prospects, it's more important that their program caters to your specific interests, and is connected to companies that you might want to work for.

[heady wyvern]

I live in a big tech area that has microsoft and other companies. when starting out, would I need an internship to start working?

many job listings have a bunch of qualifications like '2-3 years work experience'

[peak halo]

You should aim to do internships in the summers. You might not get one after your first year, but you definitely want to do them during your second and third summers.

[peak halo]

If a job listing says "2 to 3 years experience", that usually means they'll consider a new graduate with a good academic record and some relevant domain knowledge.

[heady wyvern]

ohhh

[peak halo]

That said, ones first job hunt is often brutal. It's normal to only get a few responses out of a hundred applications.

[heady wyvern]

what if am not good at math? it can be hard sometimes when done independently?

[peak halo]

Being "bad at math" is a state of mind, in my opinion. But if you have a negative attitude about math, you should not consider data science or AI. At all.

[heady wyvern]

which jobs require less math yet pay just as much

[peak halo]

I'm not sure.

[heady wyvern]

im curious, what does a usual work day for CS employees look like? is it usually laid back and relax or is always coding the whole time?

and is scheduling based off availability, most jobs are remote

[peak halo]

Depends on the company. And what their policies are about remote work.

[peak halo]

It's lower pressure than (for example) food service, but it's not necessarily "laid back and relaxed" if you have a deadline approaching and you have no idea why your code doesn't work.

[heady wyvern]

if your code wont work, can you ask co-workers for help?

[pine sleet]

What do you mean by "kind" of college?

[smoky quest]

no pain no gain.

Note that math in college is a lot more interesting and fun.
So rather than trying to lower your ambitions because you are afraid of math, I would suggest to work on it

[heady wyvern]

yeah, ive been trying hard to get it in my brain

[peak halo]

I guess. For all the projects I'm on, I'm the only one who knows how to code the things that I've been asked to code.

[smoky quest]

otherwise, your question could be grossly paraphrased as "is there an equivalent job that is as rewarding, but without having to put as much effort and that is less difficult". If a job is easier, then they would unlikely pay as well since there would be a larger pool of applicant.

Plus most of the fears around math are unfounded. Most students do fine.

[summer roost]

data science is basically a type of applied math. If you don't enjoy learning and applying math (especially statistics), data science may not be the field for you.

[summer roost]

most software engineering jobs at this point seem to be hybrid - some days in the office, some remote. Fully remote was a majority during the height of the pandemic, but lots of companies are pushing people back into the office now.

[peak halo]

Also worth noting that data science and AI don't involve performing calculations by hand--thats why we have computers. But you need to know what math solves the problem before you.

[summer roost]

most types of software development require less knowledge of math than most types of data analysis - as a broad generalization.

[peak halo]

I hope the misplaced obsession with bodies in office chairs goes away when boomers age out of corporate leadership.

[hardy blade]

Why are mediocre managers tolerated, while experienced programmers who struggle to adapt to new technology are criticized, despite management being a seemingly easier career path?

I am very interested in switching to the management path, especially since it seems to be much more respected and more well compensated

I'm honestly burnt out at this point with constantly having to learn the latest and greatest

[smoky quest]

There are a lot of baked assumptions into that. Some companies tolerate mediocre managers and some others don't. The same way some companies will tolerate mediocre engineers and some don't

[heady wyvern]

Alright, ill focus on taking CS classes at the community college for now when I become a senior next school year.

[pine sleet]

That's what I'm doing. Dual credit is a great opportunity to knock out a lot of classes for very cheap

[heady wyvern]

they offer dual credit for free here.

[pine sleet]

Even better.

[heady wyvern]

I did not know this, they usually never tell you about it. somebody told me

[smoky quest]

being a manager is a whole different job where you also have to constantly learn.
If you are burnt out, the solution isn't to go into management as you will then completely burn out.

You may want to take some vacations, a break or what not to recuperate.

You may also be interested in https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897 which describes more the various roles at a company, from the intern all the way to cto

To note also that management is neither easier nor more difficult than engineering. It's a whole different ball game

[pine sleet]

I found out a lot of stuff this way. Friends told me I could do X which I didn't know, and the school never told me. Wished I had done it, but oh well

[heady wyvern]

When going for a CS degree, would I also qualify for IT jobs?

[smoky quest]

you would. But CS jobs are better paid and, subjectively, more interesting

[summer roost]

I take issue with pretty much everything you say there. 🙂

• I don't think mediocre managers are more likely to be tolerated than mediocre programmers are (though I do think people, on average, are only average at their jobs)
• I don't think management is an easier career path
• Management is not necessarily better respected or better compensated than the individual contributor route
  (As far as "respected" goes, you seem to be disrespecting managers right now by suggesting it's an easy job 🙃)

[heady wyvern]

Got it, I think IT is usually confused with CS fields

[smoky quest]

That probably depends on your country. In the western world (USA, EU), that's pretty clear cut. Even most of Asia is aligned on that as well

[summer roost]

IT: help desk, maybe systems administration or database administration
CS: software development, web development, SRE, devops, etc

[hardy blade]

I think it's easier in the sense that it doesn't require constantly trying to keep up with your tech skills

[smoky quest]

instead, you have to constantly keep up with technical skills and management skills and product skills 🙂

[hardy blade]

You are more or less providing high level direction and delegating tasks

[pine sleet]

You may be grossly underestimating management positions

[smoky quest]

that's not what modern management is about

[hardy blade]

Regardless, it's a different role. just because you're a good programmer doesnt mean you'll be a great manager and vice versa

[smoky quest]

yep.
But that is never the answer to someone being burnt out as an engineer

you may end up hating it or not being like you think it is. Which is almost as bad as having to develop in php

[hardy blade]

Yes but this could be said about any other job..

doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results (in this case, happiness and career satisfaction) is insanity

[summer roost]

I'm not sure that's true. Even my boss's boss is learning new languages and tools, and can have a conversation with me about what library to use for tackling a particular problem.

[smoky quest]

yep. So if you are burnt out, flipping a coin on your career is unlikely to pay off.
I would suggest to:

• Work on the reasons for the burn out
• Investigate what it is to be a manager and if that's something you would thrive in

[summer roost]

managers might not get as much hands-on time with new tech, but I think you're wrong if you think managers don't need to stay informed about what's new in tech in order to do a good job of managing people.

[hardy blade]

I've also had many managers who couldn't code or were terrible at coding. Why are they excelling in their careers? That's my question

and why are you implying that i would fail if i were to pursue such a path as a burnt out engineer

[smoky quest]

flip the problem around.
They may not have to write the code themselves, but they need at least to keep up with an overall understanding. And while you have to go deep in your area, they have to do so across many areas and people

[summer roost]

switching careers is a lot of work, doing that at a point where you're feeling burned out is less likely to lead to a successful transition than doing it when you're in the right headspace to take on new challenges

[hardy blade]

But is it really switching careers? I'd still be in tech and many managers were once developers

[smoky quest]

It is exactly like switching careers

can't be more explicit than that

[hardy blade]

Then how do I know if I'm ready to make the jump?

[smoky quest]

that's a whole different conversation.

The point @summer roost and I are making here is that it's not an escape from your current problems

(I am happy to have that conversation on how to explore if you are ready to make the jump too)

[hardy blade]

That's fair, but lets flip this conversation to someone making minimum wage trying to get away from their job and jump into programming. The same advice doesn't apply

[smoky quest]

Different situations will yield different advice. Yes.

[hardy blade]

That's right, for them making such a career switch would be difficult but would make them happier. different stresses but the outcome would be substantially better

[summer roost]

I'm not sure how different the advice would be, honestly. You need to get to a point where you can survive, then you need to free up space to thrive. If you're struggling to motivate yourself to do your current job duties, you likely cannot pick up the extra work required to transition from your current job to a new one

[smoky quest]

@hardy blade I would suggest to separate your question in two:

• How to handle your current situation
• Would management be an interesting move for you

Switching career will bring a lot of stress. You will question yourself, have to deal with a bunch of unknown situations, which sometimes could impact people lives

[peak halo]

Based rhyming

[hardy blade]

It's not that i don't get my work done, its that I think it's incredibly boring and I just can't stand it.

In this economy, it's not as simple as just jumping jobs. I'm happy with where I'm at because as boring as it may be, it pays the bills and is cushy in a way, especially with all the layoffs happening

[smoky quest]

Sounds like it's a matter of priorities for you.

There are still plenty of companies hiring in this economy with very interesting jobs

[summer roost]

that also doesn't really sound like a description of burnout to me

[pale heath]

To be fair, that is all work, eventually

[smoky quest]

If a job is boring, it can also be an opportunity to look for more things to do in your current company where you could grow and take on more responsibilities

[hardy blade]

More so the aftermath of burnout. past 2 jobs i was working 60+ hours for the carrot on the stick. This job i stopped going above and beyond because I dont want to sacrifice my health

[modern ore]

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-jobs-students-tech-software-hiring-earnings-2023-2

[summer roost]

Are there any parts of the current job that you find rewarding?

[modern ore]

😹

[smoky quest]

is there a question or something about it?

[hardy blade]

Just the people and salary unfortunately, i work with a very talented group of engineers

[summer roost]

what do you find rewarding about the people, specifically?

[modern ore]

I just wanted to ask for thoughts 🤔 since it is kinda career related

[smoky quest]

it's not going to be productive to ask for thoughts over an entire article. Any specific points you seek feedback on?

[summer roost]

My thoughts are that Amazon has always been and will continue to be a terrible company to work for.

[hardy blade]

Hmm seems like everyone has their own niche, so theres always something to learn from each one of them

[modern ore]

🤔

[summer roost]

hm. Do you have a niche?

[smoky quest]

A company hiring new grads for entry level jobs is a tautology.
What's new about it?

[hardy blade]

I'm more of a generalist tbh, jack of all (some) trades master of none

[summer roost]

the article says they won't hire recent grads (>1 year out of uni) for SDE-1 roles, only brand new ones. Which, 🤷‍♂️

[smoky quest]

within 12months though. The bar is still low

[summer roost]

yeah. it seems like a small shift.

But also, it's perplexing to me why people get hung up on some of these companies. People talk about FAANG as though they're monolithic, but those are very different companies with very different cultures working on very different things

[smoky quest]

the question mark for me is about the non-students like bootcamps and such

[summer roost]

yeah, I was wondering the same

[pale heath]

If you don’t have a degree, most of these organisations filter on that alone

[hardy blade]

Why such discrimination against those who aren't coming fresh out of schools? Seems like non-traditional applicants suffer, unfairly

[smoky quest]

I would infer that it's because the signal/noise ratio is too bad and taking too much time away from the current workforce, given they have laid off a bunch

[summer roost]

I'd postulate that Amazon prioritizes cheap labor over a diversified workforce

[pale heath]

Because they don’t want to spend money and time, the degree is an easy yes/no filter.

[hardy blade]

Ah, this makes sense

[smoky quest]

tbh, the signal/noise ratio is definitely worse as soon as you open up to non-degrees

[summer roost]

sure, it is. And they'd still be hiring people with less traditional backgrounds for non-entry-level roles. So 🤷‍♂️

[smoky quest]

yeah

[pale heath]

It’s like any generalisation, sure some people don’t follow the trend, but imagine the effort to find the “diamond in the rough”.
Much faster to sift through 1000s of resumes that way.

[smoky quest]

but if you kind of got rid of more than half of your recruiters, that also means you have a lot less capacity to deal with it.
From a cynical point of view, it's something one could argue

[summer roost]

back to this, thinking with a more managerial hat on: are there any niches that you think your team ought to have someone filling that it doesn't currently?

[summer roost]

that's definitely a totally reasonable point as well. But Amazon has also always had a reputation of forcing managers to cut a certain number of engineers every year, leading managers to hire new grads just to fire them a year later so that they don't need to fire the productive engineers they actually like.

[smoky quest]

oh yeah. For engineers Amazon is probably the worst one to join

[summer roost]

As far as I can tell (from the outside, but also from conversations with friends who've worked there) the culture around hiring and firing at Amazon is pretty... well, "broken" might be a strong word, but "adversarial" and "gamified" perhaps

there seems to be a lot of playing games with peoples lives and livelihoods.

[smoky quest]

I am amazed people are still chasing amazon

I would have expected them to have to pay an amazon tax like FB has had to pay for a while

[summer roost]

I think the AWS teams have thought they were mostly above the fray, at least until recently

[smoky quest]

I have heard similar stories, from aws to twitch

[pine sleet]

What happened recently to change that? my dad works there so naturally curious

[summer roost]

well hell, ask him not me 😄

I'm just reacting to what I've heard from others, but I bet he'd have both a better informed and more nuanced answer to that

[pine sleet]

Lol that's a fair point

[summer roost]

I'd be curious to hear his thoughts, at least, haha

[modern ore]

yeah new grads are replaceable easily and cheap thats what i heard from high ranked mfs at zon

[pine sleet]

I guess I dodged a bullet when I got rejected from the AWS internship I applied to

[modern ore]

Internship is not even bad tho 💀

[summer roost]

It's still an attention grabbing name to have on your resume, even if only for an internship. But every friend I have who actually worked there grew to hate it pretty quickly.

I dunno, pros and cons.

[pine sleet]

Though I'm only a HS senior so I'm not all that surprised
Apparently most internships aren't open to those my age :(

[modern ore]

Oh they do internships for hs?

[summer roost]

internships for high school students are quite rare, generally speaking

[modern ore]

Yeah, I only heard of one guy interning and he was at roblox 🤔

[pine sleet]

I honestly don't know
It was mostly just for me to see what the application process is like
Really wasn't expecting anything out of it lol

Heck I actually don't know what I would've done if I somehow did get accepted - I don't think I'm ready for work yet

[modern ore]

ur probably more qualified than most juniors in college💀

[pine sleet]

I don't know what you're judging that off of but thanks :p

[uncut quest]

I've heard Roblox OAs are insane

[modern ore]

I've done it. Its literally IQ test and a codesignal. Then they screen your resume 💀 Its tough

[summer roost]

Well, interns generally aren't expected to be very productive. Taking an intern on is a net productivity loss for the team, which is expected to be offset by cheaper recruiting and an improved hiring pipeline

[inner forge]

guys on which channel can I ask about an error I'm facing while installing a library?

[smoky quest]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[main mulch]

Hey guys

does anybody know about the django? Drf

[lime bramble]

Hi guys happy Summer holidays. Enjoy your life

[spark cobalt]

Thanks you too

[sour tartan]

1. what does this have to do with careers? 2) this sounds like it's against the rules.

[dreamy spade]

Happy summer holidays?

[dense ibex]

Against the rules of the server?

[winged portal]

hi

could someone help me please? in https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1102220233697149059

[sour tartan]

yes, it sounds like malware, or a violation of sites' terms of service.

[wanton birch]

When you guy's are looking for jobs and come across jobs you want, what proportion of the requirements sections matches with you?

[sour tartan]

if you think you can do the job, apply even if you don't have some of the "requirements." Lots of places over-list requirements. It's dumb.

[wanton birch]

I've been trying to do just that for a while now. Wish we could at least know why we weren't selected for an interview.

[sour tartan]

yes, that is very frustrating.

[wanton birch]

The more time passes, the more of a gap is being created on my timeline. IDK what to do about that.

[sand egret]

Wait a second, Python logo is actually 2 snakes...?

[true harness]

reportedly, it's supposed to be a "p" and "y"

[gritty rivet]

If you're sending out lots of resumes and getting zero uptake, you need feedback on your resume. Feel free to send anonymized screenshots to this channel

[true harness]

well, more feedback than "resume isn't good enough"

[sleek egret]

yar

[spice latch]

Can anyone guide me how to prepare for PCAP exam?

[echo pond]

Guys

How do I start learning ml from scratch , I just know a few algorithms and python

[gritty rivet]

Haven't taken that one, but for technical certs in general my approach is: a) skim a book, pay close attention to the sample questions and keep track of what I get wrong b) take a practice test (typically random free ones like https://www.itexams.com/exam/PCAP). C) repeat at least one more round of a+b d) schedule the exam and use the last few weeks to study all the questions I got wrong at any point

[gritty rivet]

Try building a small and simple ML project that interests you. There are loads of tutorials if you search

[spice latch]

Thanks

[sleek egret]

what should I have for lunch?

[true harness]

sushi

[sleek egret]

I'd have to order that...

... unless I break into my neighbor's home to steal and murder her goldfish

[dense ibex]

No, just a way to find certain Instagram accounts made by bots

Nothing unethical

[smoky quest]

• We don't do hiring on this server
• It's still against the term of services

[dense ibex]

No worries, I'll go ahead and delete the message

[dreamy spade]

Yep. I have to get a job other than tech because of this.

[wanton birch]

Same here. At this point I will and should take anything. Problem is that I am not hearing back at all’s

[true harness]

have you gotten your resume reviewed? if you're not getting interviews, it indicates a problem with your resume, generally

[dreamy spade]

I worked my ass off graduating by writing dreadful exams. I didn’t graduate for me, I graduated for these employers and I’m getting empty-handed by them.

[heady wyvern]

University or community college for getting a CS degree?

[dreamy spade]

They wanted a graduate, I’m giving them a graduate and I won’t get any callbacks from them. Ridiculous.

https://tenor.com/view/what-more-do-you-want-from-me-crying-gif-18044690

[true harness]

you should stop blaming other people for your problems. a degree is only the minimum requirement for many jobs. you also need 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

[true harness]

you're asking which one is better?

[dreamy spade]

you also need 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

Yes but they cannot be demonstrated if they don’t book me for an interview.

[true harness]

that's what the resume is for. it's your advertisement for your skills, so they get interested, and want to interview you

what skills you have is basically irrelevant if you don't advertise them well enough

[dreamy spade]

You know putting your skills on a resume isn’t 100% verifiable right?

[true harness]

of course not. people lie all the time

[wanton birch]

I know. That’s why I got it reviewed a few times. Some fixes were made. I am applying a lot again. It takes so much work to tailor fit every application but that’s how I was told to do it.

[smoky quest]

that's why there are interviews 😉

[dreamy spade]

And they are not booking me to verify them which is my point

[true harness]

if you've fixed it, and you're not getting interviews still, there are still issues

[smoky quest]

that's because your resume is not giving the vibes of someone they would want to interview to verify the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

[wanton birch]

Assuming that the only reason iD not get interviews is because they don’t like my CV layout

[true harness]

issues don't have to stop at the layout

[wanton birch]

I know for sure there are issues but not sure what the issue is

[smoky quest]

why don't you post an anonymized version of it here?

[wanton birch]

I will soon @smoky quest

[true harness]

other candidates had better resumes. they aren't just randomly selecting people to interview

[dreamy spade]

“Vibes”? A résumé isn’t a crystal ball.

[true harness]

just like from reading anything, you can "read between the lines"

[wanton birch]

Whether you like it or not, you are dealing with people and that’s how it is

People don’t want to admit it but they use “vibes” all the time for judgements

[smoky quest]

you develop a read after reading thousands of resumes and talking to thousands of people

[dreamy spade]

Yeah unfortunately. Some recruiters don’t even bother with clicking GitHub links.

[true harness]

though, for hiring, you usually want to avoid using vibes as much as possible, i think

[wanton birch]

And the more applications they get, the more likely they probably are to practice whatever quick “vibe” let’s them filter it fast

[smoky quest]

no time to waste

[true harness]

i think this point has been harped upon enough, but the reality is that 30s to 1 min isn't enough time to follow any links. and they only have 30s to 1 min because, as you've seen, there's a lot of competition, with hundreds of applicants per opening

[smoky quest]

if you aren't able to convey your skills on your resume, it's not the job of the interviewer to dig into your code to find a reason to talk to you

[wanton birch]

There is an over abundance of applicants and skilled people. That’s why they have the luxury to even say that they get seconds per application review.

[dreamy spade]

i think this point has been harped upon enough, but the reality is that 30s to 1 min isn't enough time to follow any links.

And it isn’t enough time to receive “vibes” from it. Whatever that is suppose to mean.

[smoky quest]

it absolutely is.
Everyone else is able to demonstrate their skills in that time frame

[true harness]

why do you say that? you develop vibes as soon as you look at a resume

[wanton birch]

No

[smoky quest]

fyi, that has been the case since forever.
That is not a new thing

[dreamy spade]

Nothing in the definition of résumé has the word “vibes” so I don’t know what you guys are saying.

[wanton birch]

That’s a huge misunderstanding. Others can sell themselves that fast. Maybe that’s true. But that’s not a demonstration of their talents other than selling themselves under 30 seconds.

[true harness]

it also doesn't have "skills", so...your point doesn't quite work

[dreamy spade]

That’s like me saying I get vibes from reading women’s Tinder profile.

[true harness]

you don't?

[wanton birch]

It’d be as naive as thinking that the one who can answer quick Python questions in rapid fire interview is necessarily more skilled than the one who can’t.

[smoky quest]

I was trying to be nice in the phrasing as to not directly say that if your resume doesn't get call backs, it means your resume doesn't demonstrate that you are someone worth talking to

which at this point, should have been quite explicit

[wanton birch]

True

[smoky quest]

that is not how interviews work

[dreamy spade]

Well you could have used a more appropriate term.

[smoky quest]

that's fair

[true harness]

but we have, in the past, many times

[wanton birch]

That’s not what I implied

I am pointing out that writing a cv that in under 30 seconds can impress someone doesn’t automatically imply you are the better candidate

[dreamy spade]

It just makes it sound like résumés transmit spiritual vibrations and energies or something.

[smoky quest]

it does point at communication skills 😉
It's the old problem of what if you are the best person in the world, but no one knows about it

[smoky quest]

It's like a classification problem. People also tend to think they are unique, but if you aggregate over a large enough dataset...

like if someone keeps changing jobs every 6-12 months, or if someone has graduated but haven't had any job, or if someone has graduated but like 10+ certifications, etc.

note that there are also positive flags

[summer roost]

That's true, but it does point out that you're better at "playing the game", so to speak. Impressing someone in under 30 seconds is exactly the point of a resume. A resume is an advertisement for you as an employee, and like any other form of advertising, it needs to get the point across efficiently. If you can't do a good job of selling yourself with that initial advertisement, you don't get a second chance, because you're competing against other people for the same job, and many of them will be able to succinctly explain why they're someone who the company should interview for the role.

just like how, for a company, being better at advertising translates into better sales, regardless of the quality of the product.

[near ocean]

Just post your cv... Judging from other times you've shown us your CV i doubt it passes automated parsing in the first place
Last I remember your cv had multiple columns and a weird layout

[dreamy spade]

i doubt it passes automated parsing in the first place

I've uploaded my resume on multiple ATS scanners and they have always scanned it successfully,

Last I remember your cv had multiple columns and a weird layout

It still has the same layout. I used a template from Google

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11sC8aGYsKdeEEC4rRLuCIomNKtRxfLggtSH0eJ-uu3E/edit?fbclid=IwAR14fSm7MtFwJrmtFDBtH3JhnDTvfN56irmwfPhHL7l_8_tOSmKfwhLImgU

[near ocean]

if you're convinced its not the layout then its the content

[true harness]

and it's certainly not other people's fault

[near ocean]

Who else could possibly be responsible for them not getting a job?

There's no one out there out to get you and there's no cosmic force getting in your way either

[spark cobalt]

He did mention earlier that he thought there was no way to improve, essentially saying he's a perfect candidate but alas.

Surely there's just no way to do anything better.

[summer roost]

I don't think this is helpful, and I think this channel should aspire to be better than that.

I think that, instead of thinking in terms of "fault", it's probably more useful to look at candidates who are succeeding in landing jobs, and seeing how the candidates who did succeed in landing the jobs differ - what's in their resume but not in yours, what's what experience they have that you don't have, etc.

[near ocean]

I think we should wait till they post their CV again but also not just sit here and allow rants that ignore all attempts to help, its spam at this point

[summer roost]

then say that, instead of criticizing previous generations of the resume, or stale comments that were made in the past.

[near ocean]

I did ask for a CV post again

[summer roost]

I don't think it's constructive to harp on past mistakes, is the point I'm making. Yes, rants about how someone is having trouble getting a job aren't productive, but neither is rehashing past mistakes, or the like.

it's understandable that someone who is having trouble landing a job would get frustrated by that, and I think a bit of empathy would go a long way here.

[spark cobalt]

I do think it is worth mentioning that we have discussed dozens of ways for him to improve, and him coming back to say he has no way to improve while not really showing any improvement is just a slap to the face.

[summer roost]

It's only a slap in the face if you're taking it personally. I think you may be a bit overly invested in this, and I don't think your emotional response is helpful

[spark cobalt]

I will say, it's definitely a precursor to how he'd treat advice given to him in the future.

[near zenith]

Are obtaining positions at big tech companies mostly about connections to get interviews?

[true harness]

sorry. i didn't mean to imply that it was anyone's fault, simply that it wasn't an employer's fault, though i realize it was probably poorly worded

[summer roost]

For senior level positions, connections can definitely help. For junior level positions, not really.

[near zenith]

Hm. Cause one of my dreams is to work at a big tech company like microsoft or google. I heard that getting such a position would be a lot easier if you got an internship in college, and then when you get out, a position is almost gaurenteed. But I thought you would need connections for the interview of the internship.

[summer roost]

you don't

[near zenith]

How do u get such interviews then?

[smoky quest]

no. I would contend most people don't have connections

[true harness]

apply. preferably with a resume that 👏 demonstrates 👏 skills 👏

[near zenith]

What would be a minimum for such a resume?

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[near zenith]

Well, for the internship while in college.

[true harness]

the minimum is a very low bar 😛. but you want at least the basic 4 sections: education, skills, projects, experience. for internships, experience isn't really necessary; you'd fill that with some achievements (like, winning a hackathon or something), or more projects

[near zenith]

Any other alternative to winning hackathons? I don't enjoy hackathons very much and i suck at them 😓

[summer roost]

or whatever prior work experience you do have, from high school jobs

[near zenith]

Ye, but isnt finding high school jobs a task all in itself?

[true harness]

other competitions, lol. but the point is to 👏 demonstrate 👏 skills 👏. there isn't one way to do it

[true harness]

not really. though the jobs available to high schoolers are not really going to be tech related

[near zenith]

So can a strong portfolio make up for that?

[near zenith]

Oh, well ye I worked in a restaurant, and I intern for my schools IT.

Idk if that is what u are referencing.

[summer roost]

sure. But the people who get the best internships will likely have good hustle. Working jobs in high school is a good way to demonstrate motivation and drive, even if it's just fast food jobs or the like

[near zenith]

Ye, I work at a restaurant during the summers if that counts. I'm too busy with school to do it during the school year.

[smoky quest]

projects go a long way

[true harness]

yeah. remember the phrase: 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏. fast food job can demonstrate that you can interact normally with people

[near zenith]

Oh, my job wasn't fast food. Just an italian restaurant. Does fast food look better for companies?

[true harness]

it's probably about the same. it's just an example

[near zenith]

ah kk ty!

[smoky quest]

am disappointed it's not the actual resume. I was ready to help and provide suggestions

[summer roost]

yep, that totally counts, as does the IT internship

[near zenith]

Great!

[true harness]

if you're going to list any, i'd probably leave out the restaurant job, unless you need to pad it more. the internship you've got is probably more meaningful

[summer roost]

basically anything to show that you're the sort of person who can set goals and meet them, keep your commitments, learn material that's relevant for the job, have some background knowledge that's required for the job, etc...

[harsh river]

if this is the same person as before who didn't want to take constructive advices and is still struggling with this, yikes....

[summer roost]

I'd list both, honestly, unless you're so tight for space that you need to start dropping stuff. Even the restaurant job is probably more relevant than some random project that you've completed in your spare time.

[near zenith]

I see. Also, what type of projects do jobs and colleges like to see?

[true harness]

hmm. what about after an internship in college? i was planning on dropping my chipotle entry

[harsh river]

new things for once, unique stuff

[near zenith]

OS and Language feeling useless

[harsh river]

try doing interesting projects, lot's of college keep seeing projects that literally everyone does like webscrapers or tic tac toes

[summer roost]

hm. An internship specifically for writing software is probably relevant enough to drop other jobs, if you're tight for space. I'd trim Chipotle before I'd trim winning a coding competition, but I'd probably trim a 3rd GitHub project before trimming Chipotle

[harsh river]

this guy in my college showed a projects where he trained a ML model to detect ASL signs and predict the next few signs based on the ones that came before, they loved it

[near zenith]

Does running a hackathon mean more than winning one?

[true harness]

me with 6 projects 🥴. hopefully i can win an upcoming hackathon so i can get actual college achievements 🥴. i'm still using 2 achievements from high school

[harsh river]

yes, shows leadership / administration skills imo

[near zenith]

bro just did gpt with ASL

[harsh river]

you can't just chuck "gpt" into everything, this kid did everything from scratch and not just reused old info / models

[summer roost]

it demonstrates entirely different skills, I'd say.

[near zenith]

GPT means its a predictive trained model right?

[harsh river]

the p stands for pre trained

[summer roost]

no - it means it's a specific pretrained model

[near zenith]

Will colleges still love that?

[harsh river]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_pre-trained_transformer literally 1984

[spark cobalt]

Is :/

[pine sleet]

They like it either way

[near zenith]

hm

[summer roost]

sure - leadership experience is rarer than individual contributor experience amongst college students.

[harsh river]

, yikes

[near zenith]

I see. Im also starting a club donating computers to less fortunate schools, and a VR and software development club. I will also take full control of the programming club when Im a senior and am a vice president next year. Does that all count towards leadership? Or do they want different things. I don't have a great clue for a programming major. My brothers both went into completely different majors.

[smoky quest]

fyi, I wouldn't over think it.
Find something you are passionate about and build something awesome related to it. That will lead you further than something you aren't necessarily interested in and most likely be different from the typical stuff

[near zenith]

hm fair

[harsh river]

i think an important addedum: don't become passionate on things you see others be passionate about just for the sake of it

[smoky quest]

yeah and if you don't know what you are passionate about, it's a sign you may want to explore a bit

[harsh river]

as in, whatever you choose to highlight as a passion make sure you're actually passionate about and dont fake it just for college points

[near zenith]

true

[harsh river]

the college counselors i've become friend with have told me they see this a lot, and it justs makes the applicant less appealing

[dreamy shadow]

I've gotten 2 emails from recruiting agencies now. Both said something along the lines of: "Hiring is opening back up"

Like what? They just go: "Hi, recession is over. Thanks for participating!"

[heady wyvern]

yes

[true harness]

are you in the US? you don't really get a B.S. CS from a community college

[heady wyvern]

im in the US, i dont know how it works

If I do 2 years for CS in community college then transfer to a university to get my bachelors, would that work?

[true harness]

yes, that works

[heady wyvern]

would university look at my college GPA?

[true harness]

yes

[heady wyvern]

so they wouldnt care about my HS GPA at that point

my HS GPA isnt high enough for a good university

[true harness]

i don't work in admissions, but why wouldn't they?

[heady wyvern]

Im not sure if they take it into account or not

[true harness]

they do. it is probably weighed less than your community college GPA, but they would look at it

[heady wyvern]

do people in CS majors usually go to a 4-year college?

or they do go to a 2 year first

[true harness]

yes. i don't really know anyone with an A.S in CS. ah, that's what you meant. from what i've seen, most just go right for a 4 year program

[heady wyvern]

is that the recommended route

[true harness]

depends on your situation. reportedly, the commuinty college route is much cheaper

[heady wyvern]

a financial aid calculator estimated I wouldn't have to pay any money for college. Now i dont know if thats accurate but if it is i should take advantage right by going to a uni?

[true harness]

yes, free things are nice. you also don't have to deal with the application process again, which is great

[pine sleet]

@heady wyvern going to a CC for the first two years then transferring is great because 1) it's incredibly cheap and 2) your diploma has the name of your 2nd college on it, so if you plan on transferring to an ivy league college that could work for you

[heady wyvern]

If you transfer for a Bachelors, would the unis look at your HS GPA?

[pine sleet]

maybe

[gritty rivet]

I would think yes, but CC performance may carry more weight... May also depend on the specific uni

[heady wyvern]

Ok

what do people usually minor in college if their major is CS, is IT a good minor?

[true harness]

i think most people have no minor. and no, you shouldn't minor in IT if you're majoring in CS, there's no point. minor in something unrelated if you're going to have a minor

[heady wyvern]

so 'minor' isnt nesseccary if you're focused on CS

[spark cobalt]

Having a minor in economics, math, business, would probably be more helpful than IT if you plan to become a SWE

[spark cobalt]

It depends. Some more math centered roles would probably value a math minor.

Helps open up some routes. Or if you're passionate about some other field that you think a CS and X cross niche will be fruitful for you then that's another thing

[heady wyvern]

but in college do you get the option not to minor at all?

so it isnt required for graduation?

[spark cobalt]

Yes

[true harness]

it is not required

[spark cobalt]

You can generally knock out math minors pretty easily I think cuz there's some crossover in CS and Math path, so some people do that

But yeah, not required

[rose elk]

[heady wyvern]

If I do college sports, would that cause conflict with studies (CS)?

[true harness]

it takes time, so potentially, yes

[hardy blade]

The jobs that exist today will not be there when our children are grown up

[heady wyvern]

my sophomore grades impacted my cumulative gpa, as a junior now I am realizing it and now want to change it before its too late.

My counselors usually just brush me off but y'all have given me more knowledge than they have about CS and college. Is it worth taking AP classes my senior year to boost my GPA? I am already planning on doing running start as well.

[hardy blade]

What schools are you trying to get into?

[heady wyvern]

Any 4 year college as its the recommended route i assume

[true harness]

look for local public colleges, they are cheap and generally not bad

[hardy blade]

I honestly don't think you should be stressing out too much if that's your goal then. You can also take community college courses before transferring to a 4 year university. You can knock out the gen ed credits for much cheaper.

[heady wyvern]

do most community colleges teach modern coding languages (python, c++, etc) and is it worth learning outdated languages?

[true harness]

it could help. if you have good grades your first semester of senior year, you could point to them in your application

[hardy blade]

Highly depends on the community college

[true harness]

i wouldn't be able to speak about that knowledgably, i don't know what languages community colleges use. if i had to guess, it'd just be the usual C, C++, java, maybe python. but generally speaking, what you're trying to learn in school is not a specific language, but how to program in the abstract. obviously, a more modern language is going to be nicer to learn, but it doesn't matter all that much

[heady wyvern]

Alright, but as a beginner what should I focus on learning first. I know CS is going to be my major but I have no idea what field to study.

I have a coding background since elementary, we used to code with Scratch. In middle school, I used code.org but havent touched it since pre-covid 💀

[true harness]

python! (unbiased answer)

[heady wyvern]

is codeacademy a good one

[true harness]

i don't know about their python3 course, and iirc it costs money. i had a bad experience with their python 2 one. i would recommend the book 'automate the boring stuff'

[vapid jay]

what

Im spikin inglis

[dawn thicket]

✨

[keen orbit]

So this may be a dumb question, but I’m 17, no school, and focusing on how to program (I’m new to it) And I’m learning python and I’m about to get a job into web development and such, when I turn 18, what’s more important to learn, html or all of python

[harsh river]

you will be able to learn html relatively quick, learn html and then move on to python

[keen orbit]

Ok appreciate it brother. I’ve been learning python, but I was feeling it wasn’t enough, I’ll start tomorrow 👍

[harsh river]

yeah you can learn html in like a week, anything else you can reference it fairly easily, python however will probably take you longer, so i would say get the first done, and focus on the rest

[hazy isle]

Can we consider it as a random walk or not?

[keen orbit]

Does html ever come into python? Or is it separate

[harsh river]

this is the wrong channel for that

[harsh river]

it's very separate, html is a markup language to display content on a browser, python is a programming language that can do much more than that

[keen orbit]

Alright, is there anything else I should do after I learn html? Before I learn python

Sorry I don’t mean to bother you with questions lol

[harsh river]

html, css and js usually come hand in hand

[keen orbit]

Ty 💯

[true harness]

I think a few people use it

[peak halo]

why do you ask?

[pine sleet]

first i'm hearing of it

[halcyon mortar]

Is it worth learning Ruby? I figured it might be worth it just to have a leg-up in jobs that are Ruby-oriented

But it’s old, and there might be not enough job posting with it. So it’s hard to tell

[smoky quest]

python is much older than ruby.
There are other languages still popular today that are even older.

The question is more about how popular are ruby jobs in your area. Indeed/linkedin can help get a sense of it

[halcyon mortar]

Yeah will def look into it

[heavy palm]

Hello eveyone

[vapid jay]

Hi 👋

[vapid jay]

If you’re oriented in Web Development, you can continue with CSS and JS, like that you’ll already have foundations for front-end development

[unborn star]

Y’a des fr ?

[vapid jay]

Oui 👍

[echo forge]

Can anyone suggest a laptop for programming?

I would like to ask, what's about acer aspire 7

[near ocean]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[tulip flower]

I think its okay

[vapid jay]

Hello everyone!
My name is Kevin, and I'm excited to be a part of this group.
I'm a full-stack web developer with a passion for creating elegant and functional websites.
I have experience working with technologies such as React, Node.js, and MongoDB, and I'm always looking to learn more. In my free time, I enjoy working on personal coding projects and contributing to open-source projects.
I'm looking forward to collaborating with all of you and expanding my skills in this community.

[pine sleet]

!contribute Hi Kevin! If you're looking to contribute to open source projects, check out this embed below ~

[inner wren]

Contribute to Python Discord's open source projects

Looking to contribute to Open Source Projects for the first time? Want to add a feature or fix a bug on the bots on this server? We have on-going projects that people can contribute to, even if you've never contributed to open source before!

Projects to Contribute to
• Sir Lancebot - our fun, beginner-friendly bot
• Python - our utility & moderation bot
• Site - resources, guides, and more

Where to start

1. Read our contribution guide
2. Chat with us in #dev-contrib if you're ready to jump in or have any questions
3. Open an issue or ask to be assigned to an issue to work on

[vapid jay]

Is Python worth learning? Like will it be useful in future?

[true harness]

probably

[vapid jay]

Aren't you sure!??

[true harness]

it's hard to predict the future. but it's probably going to be useful

[vapid jay]

Any other languages that are going to be useful?

[true harness]

yes, many

[vapid jay]

some examples?

You know, i'm still a teen so would like to make some decisions abt my future a bit early.

[buoyant seal]

Rust is raising. Linux and Windows already get it
https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/27/microsoft_windows_rust/

[vapid jay]

Is it easy to learn like Python?

[buoyant seal]

no, definitely no. python has easier entry barrier ^_^

[vapid jay]

Bruhhhh.

[buoyant seal]

in general languages remain popular to use for long long time though. if they have at least 10% of market share, their removal will take like forever

[vapid jay]

It's ok ig cause now I'm learning Python. Will learn Rust after learning Py

[near ocean]

Its useful now, why are you asking about the future, how far into the future

[vapid jay]

a decade from now

[vapid jay]

Python's is going up...

[near ocean]

Are you planning to learn nothing else from now until 10 years from now?

[buoyant seal]

python, javascript, java, C#, C, C++, even PHP, they will all remain with us 10 years into future highly likely
+Rust and Golang should become more popular ^_^

[vapid jay]

I would like to learn any programming language which will benefit me in my career and future.

[near ocean]

Python is popular now, in 10 years we might not even exist

[vapid jay]

You mean Python will not exist or humans?

[buoyant seal]

even if all those languages will be declared dead and forbidden to use today, legacy will be dying next 20 (or 40) years at least

if language has big market share and amount of products, its death will take forever

[near ocean]

I mean you and I, theres no point worrying about 10 years from now

[vapid jay]

Bruh, I feel like programming has no use now. 😢

[near ocean]

Why not

[buoyant seal]

why? my comment was to ensure how stable and long living everything (even if smth will be dying)

[vapid jay]

So according to you both, Is programming a good career in the future?

[near ocean]

Its a good career now, im not a wizard, I cant see into the future

Why are you so worried about 10 years from now....

[vapid jay]

Hmm 🤔 . Ig i have to make some imp decisions...

[buoyant seal]

COBOL is dying last... not sure how many decades. still trying to die ^_^ rest in peace the language of the ancient past.

[vapid jay]

I'm worried abt my career cause i decided that I'm jumping into the programming world

[vapid jay]

I never heard abt that language ever...

[buoyant seal]

yeah. 60 years ago all banking USA software was written in it. now it is legacy too expensive to replace.
so.. it is still dying today, but not able to die completely due to remaining all the legacy in USA banking

[gritty rivet]

About as good as any right now and that's unlikely to change in the next 5 years. If AI changes programming negatively, it's going to change many other careers worse.

[vapid jay]

Omg!

[near ocean]

Programming is not going away, not now not 10 years from now

[vapid jay]

Hmm. AI development should be stopped. (in my POV)

[near ocean]

But if you only want to use python for your entire career, you wont go far

[buoyant seal]

yet another AI panicker.

[buoyant seal]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/pAEC_JAkgv8OiJqrfjXQRjcVaYuy29fXZt761wM7Sns/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/FupkNGdWAAQXIJN.png
engineers: your jobs are safe ^_^

[vapid jay]

Well that's something good to hear.

[gritty rivet]

The most important skill is learning how to to learn. If programming is what's most engaging to you, go with it. The rest will work out as long as you're building that underlying skill in the process. I've totally changed careers 3 times which is not that unusual. If programming doesn't work for you but you learn how to learn a difficult skill, you'll be fine if you ever need to learn something different in the future

[vapid jay]

Are software engineers programmer? Never understood what and engineer is 😅

[gritty rivet]

Basically yes. Titles don't mean much

[vapid jay]

Wow! Surely will try to learn how to learn. Thanks!

[buoyant seal]

software engineers definition varies from country to country.
in some of them it is programmer with university education (CS degree) only
but in general, lets say software engineers are those who succesfully work in commercial environment, and were able to pass trial (or even junior) periods.

[gritty rivet]

Nobody cares what you think if you're not a billionaire, get used to it 😉

[vapid jay]

I know. Sad but true.

[vapid jay]

Won't coders be needed to create and develop those programs?

[buoyant seal]

coding will be the last thing to be replaced in general because complexity of software development is pretty much... most complex current systems on the earth.
it will take developing full AI on the level of Skynet or Matrix to operate with it, which is its own wonder on the level of inventing hyperspace travel engines. (likelyhood if which is pretty small for both events)

[vapid jay]

It's good to hear that. I hope AI should not be able to overtake Programming ever.

[peak halo]

AI fully replacing developers isn't on the horizon at the moment. it might happen, but a lot of things might happen in our lifetimes. it's not worth planning around.

[sleek egret]

saying silly things should be stopped

[sleek egret]

why would you hope that?

[spark cobalt]

Could you explain why? Haven't heard any decent reason for this.

[sleek egret]

modern day luddites who work in tech amuse me

[spark cobalt]

That's a new word of the day

[dreamy shadow]

Question: Do you say "team members" in an email?
e.g. "I understand some team members are out on holiday today."

[sleek egret]

"team members"

[spark cobalt]

Idk how relevant it is for you, but the teams I'm in are really close so everything's just mentioned by name so people know the exact situation

[sleek egret]

or use "some of the team" instead of "some team members"

but remember, some of the team is singular, not plural even though it refers to multiple people because it's a subset of a singular entity (the team)

[dreamy shadow]

Ah, "some of the team" works better. Too many people CCed to list individual names.

Idk, should I schedule for tomorrow instead?
"5 recipients are sending automatic replies"

[sleek egret]

schedule for thursday

[dreamy shadow]

They're only out today. Thursday would be too late for the info at hand

[sleek egret]

sounds perfect!

[unborn star]

Add

[dreamy shadow]

Anyone have trouble dialing into a zoom meeting from cell phone? I couldn't get the zoom to get the meeting ID right. I typed in the right digits, but zoom's auto system kept reading it in wrong.

[spark cobalt]

Zoom invites typically have a link right?

[harsh river]

had that issue yesterday during a meeting

[dreamy shadow]

Yes, but it's internal. I'm trying to access on my personal phone.

wow, laptop just randomly shut off on me while in a meeting.

[vapid jay]

hello

[sleek egret]

are you sure you haven't been hacked?

[dreamy shadow]

Laptop isn't charging from the cable. I'm going to have to find the dock and see.

k, something broke. It shut off again.

[gritty rivet]

Make sure you're using your actual cell network, not wifi calling

[dreamy shadow]

Yes, I'm on cell. Their system for detecting the numbers is blatantly wrong.

[gritty rivet]

Except for when I was on wifi calling once, I've had no problems and I use it every damn day. Maybe your cell network or your phone.

I do wish Zoom had the feature to call your number so you don't have to dial, but they don't

[vapid jay]

First thing is obviously jobs etc. Second thing is what if it goes against humans and might even destroy us. We cannot and should not create some species who can think on their own . It might be dangerous for the human race.

[vapid jay]

I just don't like AI taking over jobs etc

[peak halo]

Second thing is what if it goes against humans and might even destroy us.
this is doomerism and isn't based in what AI actually is or does.

[sleek egret]

automation has taken something on the order of 200% (possibly more) of jobs already

[peak halo]

An AI would not, for example, be able to nuke the entire world unless the people who designed the AI and the management systems for nuclear arsenals decided very intentionally to connect the AI directly to those systems, and gave it the ability to deploy the nukes at any time, for any reason, without any oversight.

[sleek egret]

humanity and civilization will be fine

[sleek egret]

not "for any reason", only when it feels threatened

[spark cobalt]

1. If you're doing jobs that AI could take over, then you shouldn't try to do those jobs. Just how the industrial revolution moved a generation to a new set of skills, you should do the same.

2. Cut off the internet.

[sleek egret]

or farming.

[spark cobalt]

The power of automation of jobs has been here for decades, the actual automation has yet to really happen at scale.

[peak halo]

doomerism aside, I think we should prepare for a future where there's significantly less demand for human labor than there is supply. but this should be a good thing. people shouldn't have to do work that could be automated to be able to sustain themselves.

we probably won't. but that's a political issue. not an AI issue.

[dreamy shadow]

Rip, my work provided laptop is toast. Can't charge.

Officially dead too, battery ran out.

this laptop's release date is 2019 2020, didn't survive 3 years.

[gritty rivet]

That's about an average lifespan these days. Can't get a warranty over three years for most models

[dreamy shadow]

So, I managed to get it charging again. But I'll probably try to get a new laptop anyways.

[gritty rivet]

Then again, if the problem is that it can't get power from the cable, could just be the $5 part where the power cable plugs.in... replaced mine recently

[dreamy shadow]

It's def sodered on. Dell precision 5550

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, your company is stupid cheap if they won't replace a 4yo laptop

[dreamy shadow]

Idk, I mean these laptops should last quite a long time. I have a XPS 13 that's was still working until recently. Screen starting to black out while typing. 7 years old.

I can't reproduce the original issue now.

"oh, you reported the issue? Let me just work now"

[near remnant]

If you guys had to choose, which would you choose:

• full remote
• only on-site
• hybrid

[peak halo]

hybrid, as long as I'm not required to go the office for no reason.

[near remnant]

Im working full remote, but I could go to the office. Unfortunately, my team is full remote and they never go to the office, so I would be alone...

But I think I will go once every week

I wanted a full remote job, now I have it and I feel like I don't like it. Well..I'm dumb.

[near ocean]

fully remote has been the biggest benefit my current job has going on right now

if they want me to go in every week it'll either come with a pay rise or a commuting stipend

[gritty rivet]

Company doesn't even own an office and I have zero complaints 🙂

[near remnant]

Yeah, I mean, I feel really lucky to have a fully remote job in tech, and I'm so glad but sometimes I feel like maybe I should go to the office.
But then again..maybe this is something like: "the grass is always greener on the other side" type of thing, you know.

[summer roost]

I think hybrid is probably the best option, on balance. Mentoring junior engineers is much harder in the fully remote world, as is building team cohesion and comradery

And heads down work that requires lots of concentration is much easier while remote.

[dreamy spade]

Going to be starting a job similar to this.

https://youtu.be/UvzD8HZGgoM

[near remnant]

better than a developer lol

[boreal yarrow]

This is my first job and I'm so completely lost. My team(automation) is like 8 people but only one other person works on python, and all of us work from completely different parts of the country.

It's been like a month now and I've tried asking these questions, but no one had a real answer

1. Is there a more 'official' tool for tracking tasks assigned to me than excel?

2. Is it okay to make the changes people request by just texting/calling me alone on teams?

3. How do you answer "how long will this take you?". Especially when most of the things would take a minute at most, but one might take days.

[gritty rivet]

These are reasonable questions. If they aren't giving you a clear answer the defaults implied are 1. No, 2. Yes and 3. Guess, then track how long it actually takes so you'll know better next time.

Overall,.sounds like a straight s--show and you have to make the best of it until you decide to move on 😉

[summer roost]

This also sounds like exactly what I meant about onboarding being so much harder when remote. If you were going into an office, you could just stand at someone's desk until you get answers

[near remnant]

we use Jira for tickets / tasks...lmao excel?

[gritty rivet]

Same for managing change requests... Normal companies track and approve those in a system like Jira

[summer roost]

For 1, Excel sounds fine if you're comfortable with it and no one has asked you to use something else.
For 3, estimation is hard, the only way to get better at it is practice, sometimes you'll be way off anyway when an unexpected difficulty pops up.
But for 2, you really do need some sort of answer from your boss about who is allowed to assign you work, and how to prioritize requests from different sources. Schedule a Zoom call, ask that question, make sure you get an answer, send an email to them confirming it after the fact.

[ivory sluice]

hybrid!
i am missing going into an office

[boreal yarrow]

The automation division is newish ~2 years and this is a company that hires tens of thousands of new graduates every year just to lose them later because there's no salary hike. So there's tasks that have been pending for years because the person who started them left.

I mostly just joined because they offered 2x what I was getting anywhere else.

I've never used Jira, but I have heard of it so I'll try it out and maybe try to get these people to use it as well.

[summer roost]

I wouldn't do that - Jira is a paid product, and it doesn't sound like you're in a position to decide what products your company purchase

[boreal yarrow]

I googled it and it said free for 10 people?

Wait I understand what you mean now.

[winged portal]

Hi, do someone use Vosk API?

[summer roost]

Which would just mean they'd need to purchase it if the team grows. Also, if they're already paying for a license for some other department in the company, I don't know that you'd be able to start using the free version for your department. Plus, you'd need to figure out hosting...

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, I've made the mistake of taking a terrible job based on pay alone. Glad I got out of there in 6mo for something better.

Surely they must have some sort of ticketing system in place at such a huge company? But nobody cares to tell you about it so do whatever works for you I guess!

[dreamy spade]

What makes you say that?

[true harness]

developers don't get the chance to rap that often at work I think

[balmy mural]

My team is fully remote, but we have offices I can go in to. I still go to the office 2-3 times per week since I enjoy it. Hybrid all the way for me

[smoky quest]

look up "java life" on youtube.
Or not rap, but "uptime funk" comes to mind as well

[buoyant seal]

1. Use Trello board ^_^ nice default option.
   Get columns
   Todo, in progress, blocked, awaits code review, done
   Move task cards between them

[buoyant seal]

2. well yeah.
3. experience makes answer preciser. I know myself enough to say task timelines, by getting my gut feeling how much it would take in optimal time, then multiplying 2-3 times. Usually I get very precise real time then

[dreamy shadow]

Do YOU want to go into the office? i.e. spend X minutes on commuting & prepping each day you go to the office? (Only you can really answer this one)

[buoyant seal]

Fully remote all the way.
I would not mind optional hybrid by choice though... As long as work is located less than 10(or at least within 30) minutes from home 😛
Chances for good high paid relevant job like this are nearly zero though, which leaves fully remote as the only plausible option

[dreamy shadow]

Ya'll are all crazy for wanting hybrid.

[true harness]

i mostly want hybrid just for the option of going in if i need. hybrid with mandated days in office is 🤮

[harsh river]

extroverts need to socialize too

[summer roost]

I think I would have developed much more slowly as an engineer if I started my career fully remote instead of fully in the office.
I think I owe it to juniors who are starting today to help them develop, and I know I do better at that in person than remotely.
(and I don't think of myself as an extrovert. 😄)

[harsh river]

they're not as common as introverts but still around

[buoyant seal]

Surprisingly introverts too. After working for year (years) from home, I can say... Once in a week(or month) I would not have minded going to office
(Otherwise just discord/slack texting is kind of available)

[dreamy shadow]

The problem is that if it's not mandated, there is literally no one in the office. Our downtown office suggests to go in Tuesdays/Thursdays. 90% of the office is empty.

[true harness]

my manager will be in office tuesdays and thursdays, so i plan to be there those days

[dreamy shadow]

Stop being a dino, remote is the new era.

[buoyant seal]

😛 I want to visit celebrations in office. (Wait, does it mean I would not have made work those days 😕)

[summer roost]

hm - is it? My impression is that the engineers with fully in-office or hybrid setups outnumber those with fully remote setups

I don't have data to back that up, but anecdotally, all of my friends' companies have moved to hybrid.

[dreamy shadow]

That's because the company head's want it as so. There's countless articles about how remote is X% more productive.

They rather sacrifice X% productivity to play king.

[summer roost]

there's countless articles that argue that remote is worse, too. 🤷‍♂️

[dreamy shadow]

I guess hybrid is slightly better than remote:

[buoyant seal]

Whatever 😏 u Google, will be the answer. Easy to find proofs for everything

[summer roost]

sure. I mean, I think the science is still up in the air on this. My assumption is that fully remote is better for some things and worse for other things, and most of the affected things are very hard to measure, and I doubt we'll have an accurate accounting for years or decades.

[dreamy shadow]

There's always a trade off.

[buoyant seal]

Well, remote will not work well for grocery workers for sure. And firefighters

[true harness]

one of the main benefits of in-person for me is that you can just stand next to some senior engineer and make them pay attention to you. you can't really do that with a slack message or email

[dreamy shadow]

I pay $10 for a train ticket + gas to go + extra time wasted commuting there and back makes no sense to me.

[buoyant seal]

This is downside to productivity as well. Software engineer time is wasted more, instead of having meetings strictly scheduled

[dreamy shadow]

Left on read

These articles are more or less: "If you can structure your own time + be self disciplined, remote good. o.w. remote bad"

[true harness]

it's also an upside to productivity. i don't have to wait for someone to read an email or slack message. though the point of those communications is that it's async, and if someone needs to concentrate they can ignore it for a while. it's always a tradeoff

[dreamy shadow]

Also, today's studies you need to look more closely on who's funding + n participants among other factors. Given that few companies control most of the media.
Edit: https://techstartups.com/2020/09/18/6-corporations-control-90-media-america-illusion-choice-objectivity-2020/

How else does a dog sheot term like "quiet quitting" get on everyone's radar?

[dreamy shadow]

Same reason why these damn website articles all read the same.

[summer roost]

that may be true at the level of the day to day, but I'm not sure it's reasonable to extrapolate that to multi-year results

[true harness]

yeah. there are tradeoffs

[dreamy shadow]

I personally disregard articles that quote itself. That's just me.
"some fact here according to me, so based on that fact, I conclude XYZ".

[true harness]

ah, so many research papers then

[dreamy shadow]

At least research papers generally quote other papers?

But also yea, something about X% of research papers are not reproducible lmao.
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

[summer roost]

https://finance-commerce.com/2023/04/study-remote-workers-pay-hidden-fee-for-flexibility/

This in particular resonates with me:

The economists — Natalia Emanuel, Emma Harrington and Amanda Pallais — studied engineers at a large technology company. They found that remote work enhanced the productivity of senior engineers, but it also reduced the amount of feedback that junior engineers received (in the form of comments on their code), and some of the junior engineers were more likely to quit the firm. The effects of remote work, in terms of declining feedback, were especially pronounced for female engineers.

“We find a now-versus-later trade-off associated with remote work,” said Harrington, an economist at the University of Iowa. “Particularly for junior engineers who are new to this particular firm, and younger engineers, they receive less feedback from their senior colleagues when they’re remote.”

That sounds like an accurate description of my experiences working remotely over the last 3 years.

Granted, as I said, everything in the social sciences is hard to study, and the pros and cons of remote work are certainly no exception

[pulsar kite]

Definitely is a good article, I didn't think about it.

[dreamy shadow]

I agree that in early development/early career it's better to be at minimum hybrid. Helps gain some of those key business bs lingo and feedback. My internship was in person, and I definitely would have suffered more without the ability to drop by every 5 mins to bug my boss.

But as more experienced workers,

[pulsar kite]

But I think that is easier a remote work for a shy junior dev

Also the article didn't mention about junior people that live in city where there are not any software company.

[summer roost]

I definitely would have suffered more without the ability to drop by every 5 mins to bug my boss.
But as more experienced workers, :Bleh:
Well, perhaps, but those early career employees won't get the benefits if the experienced people aren't there to bug.

[smoky quest]

right, so they stay shy and in their corner unseen. So they don't get feedback, coaching, nor promotions

[pulsar kite]

remote work IMO, has pros and cons, but there're more pros than cons.

[summer roost]

nor opportunities to grow and expand into new areas.

I think that remote work is here to stay in the long term, though I have no idea whether it will become a majority or remain a minority. But either way, my intuition is that a junior engineer working at a fully remote shop is trading off immediate flexibility for slower career and skill development.

[dreamy shadow]

I don't think the method of communication should be hindering these items.

[summer roost]

as a giver of feedback and coaching, I can tell you that it absolutely does.

[dreamy shadow]

If so, it speaks more so on the company's ability & environment.

[smoky quest]

yeah it does, especially if you are sitting at the same table

[pulsar kite]

you can receive feedback during a call as well.

[summer roost]

whether it should or not... 🤷‍♂️ That's philosophical, I guess, and not particularly worth arguing about. But whether it does? Absolutely. People are more willing to spin in their desk chair and ask a question to the person sitting next to them than they are to send a Slack message asking the same question. Take that effect and compound it over hundreds or thousands of questions, and it adds up to a lot.

sure, you can. But calls are mostly scheduled, and that relies on someone remembering a thing that they would have said to you had you been sitting next to them, or in the meeting room with them.

[pulsar kite]

the time of senior devs are limited, i don't think that a junior can receive more o less attention in front of a table than in a call.

[summer roost]

as a senior dev, I will tell you that you're definitely wrong about that.

[smoky quest]

it does create more time with the other team mates. It creates more opportunities for lunch, interactions (ex: stand ups), etc. That means it forces you to get out of your shell and it gives you the opportunity to build a stronger relationship

[summer roost]

I spend much less time answering juniors' questions now than I did pre-pandemic, because I get asked fewer questions, because the walls put in place by remote work make people more hesitant to ask.

every little thing that adds friction to communication makes it so that less communication happens. Whether we'd like it to or not, I think a lot of that is human nature.

[dreamy shadow]

"Hey Bob, QQ: blah blah blah"

[smoky quest]

that's not what a shy engineer would say

[dreamy shadow]

Remote work applies not just to engineering roles.

[smoky quest]

that's what it was about: #career-advice message

[summer roost]

sure, though roles other than writing software aren't really on topic for this channel. I don't have the expertise to speak about the pros and cons of remote work for accountants.

[pulsar kite]

You have a point there, I'm not senior dev, my impression about senior devs are wrong so

[summer roost]

a big part of the formal job description of a senior dev is mentoring, nurturing talent, and sharing knowledge. At least at any company I've been at. Part of their job is making time for the questions that junior devs have.

[pulsar kite]

So, the article is correct. 🙂 I'm only aware about shy people (I'm a one of them) It's more easy for me talk by chat or call than personally

[summer roost]

as an aside, context matters, too. I might give very different answers if someone asks me why X is done using Y instead of Z if you ask me that question over Slack than if you ask me the same question at a table over lunch. The way we present information, and even what information we choose to present, is different depending on the communication medium, and the context, and the audience

[smoky quest]

that's exactly why an in-office interaction would be a great forcing function to grow up

[summer roost]

I think "to grow up" is a bit harsh, but "to grow" puts it nicely.

shyness isn't an intrinsic part of your personality. Difficulty approaching others is something you can overcome. Practice helps.

[gritty rivet]

When I was in-office, a whole lot of daily communication happened via chat anyway. But the important stuff was face to face

What your most comfortable with isn't necessarily the most beneficial to you in the long run

I raise both these points as someone who hopes never to work in an office again. I recognize and accept the very real trade-offs

[smoky quest]

Sure. I meant it more in the way of not letting it control you.
There are plenty of shy people around, but to succeed, you will need to be comfortable presenting your ideas, debating and advocating for yourself (and others)

[delicate bane]

i like in-person but im the exception not the rule

[summer roost]

I don't dislike in-person, though I certainly do like not commuting

[dreamy shadow]

Commuting & the cost in both time and $ is the major issue.

I would be willing to bet most people would go to the office if commute time was <5 mins.

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, some people do feel that way, most seem to want hybrid.

[dreamy shadow]

@sleek egret I sent the message anyways, got 4 "OOO auto replies"

[north tiger]

i'm staying home with my dog

[spark cobalt]

What are your guys commutes

[true harness]

7 minutes

[summer roost]

at present, I'm fully remote. When I was last in an office, it was 1 hour each way, 4 days a week.

[harsh river]

like 15 minutes, 14.5 of those is spent procrastinating

[true harness]

how do you procrastinate on a commute

[harsh river]

by not getting out of bed

[true harness]

ah

soon my commute will have an expected value of 12 minutes each way. though i'll be remote for 3/5 days, lol

[north tiger]

that's great

at one point my commute was 1h30m each way with most of the commute on a train. it cost me $430/month just to get to work due to train tickets and parking

[oak zodiac]

I'm catching up on this discussion, but I have a 45-minute commute which isn't too bad. But ultimately even 45 minutes each way adds up into quality of life… I was fulltime work at home during you_know_what.

[spark cobalt]

Holy average commute time is about 30 minutes

[north tiger]

a big reason i stayed at my last job for so long is because they were far away so it was very unlikely i'd ever have to go into the office

[deft herald]

My job has been "hybrid" work from home for the last year or so. we're now this week moving to 4 days a week in office

[oak zodiac]

Yes that's me, 4 days a week in office...

[deft herald]

I plan on making the transition...slowly

[north tiger]

that would have me looking for another job

[deft herald]

but anyways, i drive 25min one way, 30-35 min the other

[spark cobalt]

We did this change recently too

Though they're very lenient if you don't come in office. Didn't go to office at all last week, and like 4/5 days the previous week I think

[ivory sluice]

at first i read this as "4 day work week" and i got excited for you

[north tiger]

i'd love a four day work week sign me UP

[deft herald]

I mean, if they make me go into the office 4 days a week, you know that friday at home is gonna be a wash

[heady wyvern]

Is it worth taking AP classes my senior year?

and is it recommended to take pre-calculus?

[harsh river]

any of them give college credit?

[heady wyvern]

only if you pass the AP test

its after spring, you take a AP test for that class and if you get a passing score you earn college credit

Will me taking AP classes look better on my application for college even if my grade isnt an A in that class?

[pine sleet]

Generally you take pre-calculus junior year as it's a pre-requisite for AP calculus

[heady wyvern]

yeah, i dont know why but they made me take algebra 1 during freshman yaer

[pine sleet]

Yes this is common
Freshman and sophmore year you need to have geometry and algebra 1 done
You can take it in either order (I did geometry then algebra 1) but as long as you have those 2 classes done in 2 years you're on track

[heady wyvern]

why did they make me take algebra 2 my junior year?

[pine sleet]

I took Geometry -> Algebra 1 -> Pre-calculus -> AP calculus

[heady wyvern]

no algebra 2?

[pine sleet]

Don't think so
Though I may be misremembering algebra 1 as algebra 2

It has been a few years :P

[heady wyvern]

In AP classes do you get more homework?

and is it worth taking AP classes my senior year, would that be recommended?

[pine sleet]

They're all quite easy except physics C

[pine sleet]

The classes you take junior year generally matter the most
But if you feel up for it you can take AP classes senior year

[heady wyvern]

AP biology, is that class hard?

[pine sleet]

That class has a reputation for being filled with seniors who have nothing better to take

[heady wyvern]

AP Lit comp (LA)

[pine sleet]

Most AP classes are very easy
Generally the hardest ones are the advanced physics ones and calc BC

[heady wyvern]

Are AP class exams similar to as the ones that arent AP?

[harsh river]

they're harder

[heady wyvern]

Would AP class exams be harder and longer?

[pine sleet]

Yes
But I wouldn't make my decision on taking AP classes solely on the AP exam
Considering AP exams are like, 3 hours out of however many hours are in 10 months

[heady wyvern]

Im talking about the tests like every unit in class

[pine sleet]

Pick a few AP classes you find interesting and do those. Don't sweat it too much. Chances are you'll be busy with college anyway

[pine sleet]

Ah yeah. Those will generally be more difficult when compared to regular classes

But if I'm being real with you AP classes are overrated and they make it sound really hard even when it's really not
They're not all that special either, pretty much everyone I know is taking at least one AP class

Heck I know plenty freshmen and sophomores taking AP classes

[heady wyvern]

Are most universities with a CS major accepting low GPAs?

whats the difference between a 4 year public vs 4 year private university?

[pine sleet]

Sure they'll "accept" a low GPA but whether or not they admit you is a different story

Your academics aren't the only things colleges look at BTW
They want a holistic assessment of you as a person
So that includes ECs and volunteering opportunities

[ivory sluice]

public vs private is mostly a function of how they're funded. both should have 4 year programs that result in a bachelor's degree

[pine sleet]

My extracurriculars were kinda lacking (not many opportunities at my school) but I was able to use my high GPA and SAT scores + my "leadership position" here to get accepted into a relatively prestigious university in my state

@heady wyvern I know the whole process can be scary or daunting but try not to get too hyper focused on any one aspect, there's a lot that goes into getting into your dream university. Just because you may not have this class or that class or have a low GPA or whatever else it may be doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Take it slow, assess your options, and make an informed decision

[ivory sluice]

public university tuition will likely be more affordable

[pine sleet]

Because ultimately your employer won't care all that much about which university you went into - your degree and your experiences and the people you meet while at university are more important

And yes, your financial situation also plays a big role in where you end up ^^

[heady wyvern]

Would financial aid cover all tuition?

whether you go to a public or private

[ivory sluice]

depends on the kind of aid and your eligibility

[heady wyvern]

I may be eligible as resulted by the FAFSA calculator

it showed i may have to pay nothing out of pocket. EFC was shown as 0

[harsh river]

for private schools, they often might cover most of it, but not all of it, but you might also get other fin aid from their fin aid programs

[pine sleet]

Apply to scholarships and grants as well, it's practically free money

[harsh river]

^

[heady wyvern]

Alright another thing is college tuition needs to be payed once for 4 year college?

[ivory sluice]

per semester

[heady wyvern]

.... wait I thought it was only 30k then thats it?

[ivory sluice]

also note that student loans are a tool, so not something to be afraid of. but you do need to do your research

wdym?

[heady wyvern]

for example if my tuition is 30k for a 4 year college, I have to pay 30k every year?

[ivory sluice]

whoever is saying that number really needs to qualify it. i think private school tuitions could be 30k a semester, or 60k a year

[heady wyvern]

but generally speaking, college tuition isnt a one time thing, it's something you would have to pay every year? so it adds up....

[ivory sluice]

yes

[heady wyvern]

I thought it was just 30k, boom bingo you do your 4 years then graduate

[peak halo]

You typically pay each semester.

[heady wyvern]

30k + 30k + 30k + 30k = 120k 💀

would I apply for FAFSA everytime?

[peak halo]

You do a FAFSA once per academic year.

[ivory sluice]

i just did a quick google and it's more like 30k a semester and there are 2 semesters per year. so double that if you intend on going to private school

but with financial aid it could very well be heavily subsidized, or at least partially

[heady wyvern]

What if I go to a community college, then finish off last 2 years at a university for my bachelors.

that would be more affordable?

[peak halo]

At least for CS, going to a prestigious private school probably isn't worth the added cost.

[ivory sluice]

that's a great cost saving strategy and one that i would do if i could go back. i'd do 1 year of cc, and still go to a public state school

if you meet residency requirements for your state look up state school tuitions. it will be much lower than private schools

[peak halo]

You have to make sure that you can actually complete the bachelors in the same number of years that way. That isn't guaranteed to be the case.

If going to community college first means that you end up taking longer to get the degree, you have to take the opportunity cost of starting work later into account.

[heady wyvern]

After completing a degree, would I just start applying for jobs at microsoft or doing internships?

note I live relatively close to their headquarters

[pine sleet]

That's slightly ambitious but sure, you could do that.

[peak halo]

You do internships while you're a student. Once you have a degree, you apply to full time jobs.

(full time, permanent jobs.)

[heady wyvern]

oh so thats how it works

[pine sleet]

Seeing if MS has any internships might be even better if you're located close to their HQ

[spark cobalt]

Location of college definitely helps and should be considered.

[heady wyvern]

privates are closer to me than public

[spark cobalt]

I mean close to tech hubs will help a lot. If you're in the Bay for example, you can almost guarantee yourself an internship if you're just slightly ahead of the competition. Not only the conference opportunities, vast network opportunities, etc.

Theres something for everyone in the Bay (and prolly other places too, I'm just not educated about them.) For example, if you're more interested in the business/entrepreneurial side of tech, there's lots and lots of opportunities here

Assuming you're still unsure what you wanna do, being in the tech hub can open up options you didn't realize beforehand was possible or existed to begin with

5 meetings and an all hands tomorrow

[north tiger]

that is way too many meetings

[spark cobalt]

I didn't realize how stuffed tomorrow was, I'm gonna ask for 3 of them to be delayed

I think manager will understand delaying 1:1

[summer roost]

In state tuition is so much cheaper than out of state that it's generally a very good idea to go to a local uni, unless you get an excellent financial aid package from an out of state one

[spark cobalt]

Let's hope they're in a state with a tech hub

[harsh river]

welcome to oklahoma or smth

[pine sleet]

What about Texas

[harsh river]

thats a techoil hub

[harsh river]

wait wut, google is telling me austing is / is becoming a tech hub

[pine sleet]

damn
i strongly dislike austin

[harsh river]

last time i went to texas, i was on an uber on a midnight hunger run, we got shot at on the way back

[spark cobalt]

California gang

[pine sleet]

seriously

[harsh river]

you still haven't gotten me a job /shrug

[pine sleet]

or are you kidding

[harsh river]

oh i am serious, the uber driver almost crashed us onto a wall trying to get us into a safe spot

[spark cobalt]

Where in Texas

[pine sleet]

i sincerely apologize on behalf of my state

[harsh river]

dallas

[pine sleet]

unfortunately i live in Dallas

[spark cobalt]

Shit I'm going there

[harsh river]

noted, another reason to avoid it ||/j||

[spark cobalt]

Ok imma go somewhere else then, thanks for the info lads

[harsh river]

some parts of dallas legit look like a wasteland

[pine sleet]

What's the job market like in Dallas? Relatively unremarkable?

[delicate bane]

sucks to suck. austin local meetup scene is great

[delicate bane]

left that place. hf

[pine sleet]

I guess ill do that too

[harsh river]

houston had a nice scene

[pine sleet]

I don't really like it much here anyway

[vapid jay]

I'm interested in programming and stuff and AI can takeover it. So yeah, will try to think about something else 😢

[spark cobalt]

Good for you

[sly stone]

💯 Happy New Month!
.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/benlopezra_linkedin-linkedinmarketing-mondayvibes-acti[…]779522760704-1CmP?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

[smoky quest]

Hi!
We don't do ads

[charred mango]

[radiant creek]

hello
im interested in programming, should i take computer science?

[vapid jay]

Hey so this college in my country is offering a BSc in programming, issue is its an online degree and you have to be a college student to register, the college in question would be the equivalent of an ivy league in the US soo do I go for it

[narrow trail]

I think computer science course will provide you an amazing roadmap of different skills and at the end of the course you can take the decision what's the area you will follow.

[icy mango]

I am a novice backend python developer, I have no experience and it is hard for me to move forward on theory alone. Please tell me where I can get a job as an intern or at least improve my practical skills and gain experience.

[gritty rivet]

To get an internship you normally be enrolled at a college or university.

If you don't intend to go that route, have you applied for jobs? If you're not getting any response, you need feedback on your resume

[zealous path]

What’s the downside?

[fallow tusk]

whats usually after technical interview?

[gritty rivet]

Every company is different, but if technical interviews are done then the behavioral/ culture fit interviews come next. If they don't give you any clear indication of what's coming next it is totally normal to ask

[fallow tusk]

i am having the technical interview this week and just wondering whats next if i pass it. thanks for your answer 🫡

[worthy dove]

i am currently broke i need something urgently its been several months like this i started to learn python like 5 months ago but i am still learning can anyone suggest me anything like what should i do to get some basic money for survival

do anyone know please its really urgent

i am fully depressed now

[ashen rapids]

@worthy dove unfortunately, 5 months of Python experience on your own isn't likely to land you a job opportunity. You'll likely need to find any job you can. Look for opportunities within your job to automate some tasks using Python, or continue to learn on your own free time.

[gritty rivet]

It's hard to job hunt when you're depressed. Seek help for that while you apply for whatever jobs you can find

[true harness]

it's always a good idea to ask "what's next"

[worthy dove]

i am thinking about to continue my learning but its getting very hard to live like this.. feeling a time low i tried some other things like content writing and all that but didn't work out i know learning python will land my somewhere but it will take years that much time i can't afford

[gritty rivet]

1-2 years is a reasonable timeline for self study to a developer job, but it's way more difficult if you have no degree and no steady professional experience. This may also vary a lot by what country you are in.

It's also much easier to self-study when you have a steady income, unless you have savings or other support

Formal education is definitely the easiest way to go overall

[worthy dove]

i am from India and i am a law student my background is not definitely cs but but i have lot of experience in computers since i was a kid (not in programming) but generally i knew computers well...my degree is unfinished still two more years to go honestly i don't have fare to get a bus to attend college so i am definitely not attending it now

[gritty rivet]

There's a lot of value in finishing a degree, no matter what field. Someone local might be better able to advise you about how to overcome the obstacles in your way of doing that.

I won't say that finding freelance work in Python definitely won't help, but it seems very unlikely to be a realistic part of the solution considering how competitive that is

[worthy dove]

i tried to practice in law under a lawyer he was giving 3k per month my fare would have be above 5k

because i don't have licences yet

plus tried some freelancing website upwork and fiverr but no luck

[gritty rivet]

Any profession may require you to "pay your dues" like that for a while, whether law or SWE

[worthy dove]

only if i get little freelancing it would definitely help rn

[gritty rivet]

Here in the US, someone in your situation might take on student loans and work whatever random job (generally retail like a grocery store or restaurant, or something on campus at school). I'm not sure what those options look like in India but finding freelance work without advanced skills is always very difficult

[worthy dove]

i don't live in a city i live in a far flung area so getting job like that is impossible even if i find a job like that they will pay 8k which is in dollars ($100) per month which is not also enough

i guess i am helpless in every way

[gritty rivet]

Any income is better than none. Beyond that I can only repeat that more useful advice will come from someone more local to where you are

[worthy dove]

@gritty rivet thnks man👍

[sleek egret]

yar

[signal crane]

Arre

[zealous path]

Yo ho ho

[gritty rivet]

Piracy isn't a great career to be honest

[rose coral]

Advice needed form a Ex Developer who switched to data scientist/data engineer.

---

I am a developer in a medium size company, I have some interest in Data Science and talked about this with my manager and HOD about getting some task related to that.
Recently they told me about some opening in data team and if I want I can choose to join them but it will be permanent change.

I think it's a good opportunity as they are willing to train if required. But as I have no work experience I am not sure if I will like being a Data Scientist.

It would be real helpful if an Ex Developer who switched to Data Scientist tell me why the decided to switch and about there experience in this field and anything else that I should know.

MY BACKGROUND:
I am a developer from India. I have graduated from college with Bachelor of Engineering in 2020 and now I 2.5 years of experience as a developer. I have worked with big teams (350+ people) in big projects as well as delivered a few projects as a solo developer. I have always tried and experimented with new technologies. My skills include knowledge of programming languages like - python, javascript, dart, typescript and frameworks like - django, flask, FastAPI, Flutter, react, angular, vue, QwikJS, NestJS. I have several badges in competitive programming.

[dreamy shadow]

Few questions:

1. How much is "some interest" in Data Science?
2. How are your statistics & math skills?
3. Have you done any ML/Modeling in the past?
4. Have you gone through any simple kaggle exercises?

Couple of comments:
Data team =/= Data science, I would go as far as considering them as separate skill sets. (Where Data Engineering falls into engineering, while Data Science falls into more of math/stats.
If all you heard about Data Scientist is: "Oh, it's an easy job to get 100k+", you are mistaken.

[delicate bane]

every data scientist role is literally a dice roll. you should confirm what the job duties would entail since you could be expected to do everything from DE (see SG's message) to 'traditional DS' to deploying models to more analytics/BI work.

or maybe you have to do all of the above. fun times! 🥴

@dreamy shadow inb4 startup and you also have to do product + sales

[zealous path]

For all you know the data scientist role is more of a high level data analyst

[next kestrel]

Web & Blockchain Developer. Available for Hire. Remote.

Hello, Hope you are doing well.

Are you looking for a skilled web &/or blockchain developer? Look no further! I have 10 years of experience in these fields and I have deep understanding of latest web & blockchain technology, I am the perfect candidate for your project.

This is my portfolio: https://james-araki.vercel.app/

I am proficient in web technologies such as React.js, JavaScript, TypeScript, Node.js, Django, Laravel, Python, PHP and have proven experience in building and deploying decentralized applications using web3 technologies. My experience includes developing and maintaining cutting-edge decentralized applications and blockchain solutions. I have strong knowledge of blockchain technology and smart contract development with Solidity, Rust on various platforms such as EVM chains, Solana, Near and etc.

I have a passion for creating innovative solutions using web2, web3 technologies, and my previous work experience includes developing decentralized applications that are used by thousands of users globally. I am also very familiar with hosting, git(version control) and task management tools like Jira, Notion and Trello and have experience in conducting code reviews and providing feedback.

If you are looking for a skilled web &/or blockchain developer, I would be happy to discuss how I can contribute to your projects. Please don't hesitate to send message to my email( [e-mail] ) for more information or to schedule an interview here: https://calendly.com/jamesaraki.

This is my github: https://github.com/0xprincedev

Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

[pine sleet]

Hello - recruitment is not allowed on this server. Perhaps you can make yourself available for hire on something like LinkedIn instead?

[zealous path]

!rule 9 please delete this post

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[dreamy shadow]

Man, the whole "start coding as a baby" isn't a joke I guess? They're born in 95 and claims to have 10 YoE.

[delicate bane]

listen. if i see blockchain developer...

no offense to those actually using it do things

[green jungle]

this should read "I'm a" not "I'm"

[deft herald]

Someone born in 95 is 28 now

[pine sleet]

What

[dreamy shadow]

Yes, but college puts them at 22. 28-22 = 6. I guess if you include college sure, that puts you at 10

[near ocean]

Post is still up 💀 has it been long enough to start critiquing?

[zealous path]

I started internally roasting them the moment I saw it

[vapid jay]

In my country online degrees are looked down real bad and IL have to juggle a normal degree with this one

[uncut quest]

Has anyone gone from Computer Science B.S. into Computer Science M.S? Would this be a good route to take or would there be too much overlap that I should take a more specialized Masters?

[buoyant seal]

probably depends on country. in my origin country it was pretty much copy pasting.

[dreamy shadow]

Depends on the program itself and what you want to do in your career. (Generally higher level positions require grad school)

[spark cobalt]

Let's go they all agreed to postpone my meetings

[zealous path]

Depends, here in the U.K. you should just do a joint MS as

1. it’s 4 years vs 5
2. you pay out of pocket for any degree apart from your first

[random acorn]

Quick question, is a console application good enough for a programming resume? I have made several PyQt5 GUI applications for my resume using python and now I want to make a C++ program but I think I have already demonstrated my GUI skills. Can i just make it a console application or it is way too simple?

[spark cobalt]

Does it demonstrate in-depth knowledge of a role you're aiming for?

[random acorn]

I have no prior work experience and the job I am aiming for is an internship regarding CRUD and databases. I want to use C++ or Python along with MongoDB. I would make a GUI again but I have made several already

[spark cobalt]

And so how will this application demonstrate skills needed to do that?

[gritty rivet]

If you don't currently have a C++ project, but may want a job that requires C++, anything is better than nothing. If you feel that including a GUI in your C++ project won't add enough value to justify the effort, you may be right.

I got a job with two Python projects, one of which was CLI and the other of which was an API with no front end. So it really depends on what job you're trying to get. You portfolio should demonstrate your skills to the greatest extent possible as they relate to the job you're applying for and that's all that really matters

[spark cobalt]

Internships are super competitive. There is no such thing as "is it way too simple" without putting it in comparison to other college students. This is a competition against yourself, of course, but you getting an internship or not is ultimately a competition against others.

[random acorn]

Demonstrate the fact that I am familiar with non-relational databases, know when to use them compared to relational, and how to manipulate them inside a program. Now if the program does not have a UI the manipulation is still the same

[random acorn]

So it really just depends with the timing, if they got better applications than mine?

[spark cobalt]

Also just volume of internships you apply to. If you apply early, like about 9 months to a year early, and your resume is decent you probably have a good chance of landing an internship, even as a freshman

[spark cobalt]

Why not connect this logic to the UI?

[random acorn]

Because I have already made several UI applications and therefore demonstrated my ability to use the pyqt5 library.

The mongodb part is either way the same. I just don't know if an employer has the same opinion. He/She may think that CLI is too simple

[gritty rivet]

This is why you should focus on demonstrating the skills you can demonstrate as well as possible. You can't read minds and you can't know your competition... You only know what your best work looks like. Put your best work into your portfolio and the rest is out of your hands

[spark cobalt]

Are you aiming for full stack internships?

If you are, I'd probably have... well.. full stack projects lol, not everything decoupled

[spark cobalt]

Most UIs have backends. Just because you connect the backend to a UI doesn't suddenly mean that backend never happened

[random acorn]

What do you mean?

To be specific I am thinking of making a library management application or a mini IMDb(app for movies). And instead of controlling it through a UI I am thinking of doing it n the console instead for the above reasons

[spark cobalt]

Huh

Well, as long as it demonstrates the skills needed for whatever you're aiming for, and it's competitive with other college students portfolios, then sure. I'd try to see if you can find resumes of your competition.

[random acorn]

Do you think they are competitive for an internship? Just searching for opinions

[spark cobalt]

If they weren't competitive you'd have an internship.

[random acorn]

Sorry I didn't understand the sentence

[spark cobalt]

Oh, are you not in America?

[random acorn]

Nope, Greece

[spark cobalt]

Yeah I don't know what the market is like in Greece, maybe there's someone here that does know that can give a judgement on their intern market

[deft herald]

I like greek food. Maybe i can help?

[spark cobalt]

But definitely worth to find people that did get internships and see what they did, what their resume looks like, etc. to get a taste of what employers are looking for

[random acorn]

Well for America's standards is it good? I mean these projects, with a UI or not.

[spark cobalt]

I've seen worse that landed FAANG internships, and better ones that landed nothing. It's not bad for a student

[random acorn]

Hm, okay

[near ocean]

Greece isnt exactly a tech hub, if i were you i'd try to join a company that has offices elsewhere and then move

[random acorn]

Well I am not aiming only for jobs in Greece, I am aiming to also send CVs outside the country

[spark cobalt]

If you're aiming to work somewhere else in the future, would be great for your CV to have worked at a company that has a global presence

[random acorn]

Well, for first I want to land A job rather than be picky.

[spark cobalt]

Yeah for sure

[random acorn]

Also, are data structures important at an intern level? I have studied them but I can't think of any unique projects for them

*and algorithms

[smoky quest]

these are the foundation of all CS. Sooooo yes

[peak halo]

They're important in that they're one of the topics that you're expected to understand, since all undergraduate CS students take an algorithms course. But you won't be implementing linked lists at the internship, no.

[smoky quest]

And given an intern has zero experience, demonstrating you have the foundations is rather important and often assessed

[smoky quest]

maybe I am pushing open doors, but as an intern, if you don't have DSA or foundation knowledge, what would you bring to the table?

[random acorn]

I understand that but I just don't know how to demonstrate them in a project

[peak halo]

you don't need to do a project that demonstrates you know Dijkstra's algorithm, or what have you.

[smoky quest]

if your project does not leverage datastructures or algorithms, that could be a sign your project is too simple

[random acorn]

I don't know if I was clear enough by saying DSA. By saying DSA I mean linked lists, graphs, trees, binary sort, bubble sort etc. The ones that are not built in to Python(saying python because it is my main language). Lists, dictionaries, sets, tuples of course I have almost mastered

[smoky quest]

• mastering does not mean being able to use them
• You should be able to leverage the standard library in your projects and that's great!
• If you want to go further, there are tons of interesting DSA problems that aren't in the standard library (concurrency, trees, etc.)

[random acorn]

That's why I said almost, there is always something new to learn. And to be honest I haven't really found any unique implementations about these not built-in DSA to implement in a project

[near ocean]

The easiest way to showcase DSA knowledge is to visualise it
Make a project visualising path finding algos, sorting algos, etc

[smoky quest]

It doesn't have to be unique in the whole world.
It has to show that you have that skill. So the bar to uniqueness is pretty low

[random acorn]

Well that is very common, I could just copy it from anywhere else, that doesn't mean I know algos

[near ocean]

Anything you make nowadays could be copied from elsewhere

[random acorn]

well true but this is too common compared to other projects

[smoky quest]

that's something that could become apparent during an interview

(or before because people tend to copy from the same places...)

[gritty rivet]

How you talk about your project on your resume and in interviews will be at least as important as the code itself

[north tiger]

big true

having a modern and recent project is great for interviews anyway because of how common it is for potential employers to assign "homework" or require some other proof that you know how to code

[random acorn]

so is it not that bad to have a super common project or your portfolio?

[near ocean]

No

[gritty rivet]

Engineers aren't mainly hired to be original or creative, but rather to follow best practices. Worry more about not making common mistakes, documenting things well, stuff like that.

[random acorn]

Well that is true, didn't think of it this way

[heady wyvern]

Does doing running start effect financial aid

I want to do running start for CS and I’m not sure but read somewhere it’ll effect your financial aid

[harsh river]

what is "running start effect"?

[dreamy spade]

Thoughts?

[gritty rivet]

You should talk to someone who knows what they're talking about (finaid office at your schoo), not randos on the internet.

[true harness]

seems reasonable. i usually shy away from these sort of questions but this one i might use

[near ocean]

inb4 >We cant discuss other candidates' strengths and weaknesses

[north tiger]

it's more about what they want than about the candidates themselves

[smoky quest]

Kind of a meh.
Whatever strengths or weaknesses of other candidates don't really bear on yours

but whatever helps

[near ocean]

You could instead ask how come there's an open position, if its been open for a while ask why, are you filling in for someone who left, is there a raise in the hiring budget, etc

[vapid jay]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/05/02/ai-jobs-takeover-ibm/

I would like to know which jobs have been replaced lol

[gritty rivet]

I would like to ban this topic from the channel because it's the same discussion every day 😭

[vapid jay]

maybe is the start of ending for CS and development career at all

[gritty rivet]

@vapid jay

[vapid jay]

uuhhmmm in the future project specification will be parsed by tools like auto gpt

[gritty rivet]

"in the future, steam engines will replace weavers" and "in the future, cars will replace horse-drawn carriage drivers", etc.

Progress is ok. Somehow humans still find useful things to do.