career-advice

[sleek egret]

if by often, you mean very rarely, then sure

[spark cobalt]

We see things that failed in history, like rent control, and hopefully Americans don't vote for it again. You can say America learned that rent control doesn't work.

[brittle thorn]

Just be open to learning and don't take stuff too seriously

[spark cobalt]

Time for lunch. Brb

But you can say every action is a little bit of an experiment.

[brittle thorn]

Yes

So encourage experiments

The outcome shouldn't matter as much since either way we learn something

If we favor one outcome some may cheat

And be happy regardless since you learn even from failure

What matters is honest effort no cheating that should be celebrated

So an honest experimenter is happy regardless of experiment outcome

It's almost Stoic

Any result is good

Provided the process is valid

And ethical

[spark cobalt]

This is very primitive way of thinking ultimately. Hard to actually apply in a free market economy. Experiments that ended up becoming positive outcome generally mean they will have a positive impact on society. For example, one company finding a way to build the same product as another company a little bit cheaper.

And yes, while it's through failures that led us to this point of success, it's hard to formulate an economic system for that.

[brittle thorn]

These are experiments some fail some succeed it's ok and it's capitalism

Failure is part of capitalism

It's market feedback you learn from it and do next experiment

[spark cobalt]

The best part about failure in capitalism is that generally an individual's failure doesn't stem to an entire nation. That individual may go bankrupt, but they do not bring everyone else down with their efforts that we so called should celebrate.

[brittle thorn]

That can be were the welfare state kick in

[spark cobalt]

That's not sustainable. There's significantly more Ls than there are Ws.

[brittle thorn]

Since failure is an option

[spark cobalt]

And promoting this sort of system would encourage more Ls, if anything. Which creates a more inefficient society.

As it's a lot easier to fail at something than to succeed at something.

[brittle thorn]

Not necessarily there is Scandinavia

The welfare state provides a safety net that encourages risk taking

Failure has to be an option

But it must not be punished too harshly

Otherwise we get inefficient companies

No market feedback

[spark cobalt]

That is counterintuitive. Considering that without this safety net, inefficient companies get knocked away immediately in favor for a more efficient company.

Failure in itself is a feedback system.

[brittle thorn]

The welfare is for people not corporations

Otherwise we get corporate bailout

Which is problematic on many levels

Corporations that can't fail

And crony capitalism

And maybe America

[spark cobalt]

This isn't specific to corporations.

Even for farmers, who farm crops that requires heavy usage of water often get subsidized or aid from the government to actually be able to get the money needed to water the crops (without having so much expense that their crop's prices are too high that no one would buy it.)

Is it not more efficient to use those farmers for something better? And have places that rain and give water for free plant those crops?

[brittle thorn]

That's policy misalignment

Doesn't invalidate the core arguments

So the farmers can't fail too

[spark cobalt]

It doesn't change that Americans are paying more money to support these farmers when they could be paying less money in taxdollars to have these crops placed elsewhere.

Which is why failure is necessary. Failure promotes efficiency.

Why would you farm in a desert after all?

[brittle thorn]

We agree failure is necessary as feedback then

[spark cobalt]

If there's no incentive to dodge failure, then who's stopping you from farming in a desert? (Btw, this is something that happens in California.)

Sure. It's mostly just whether a safety net will truly offer more efficiency or not.

[brittle thorn]

Scandinavia seems to get some of it right

[spark cobalt]

More risks being taken doesn't necessarily mean more good things will happen.

[brittle thorn]

But without taking risks things can stay stagnant...I'd take the chance

And learn

It's the learning part that is good regardless

More people should experiment with life choices

A safety net can help there

We could get artists, entrepreneurs and social workers

If they fail they aren't crippled and move on

[spark cobalt]

Right. So what promotes Americans to take risks then?

I mean, there's no safety net after all. They are risking everything.

[brittle thorn]

It's cultural maybe

There is a welfare state still

Or it's human nature

[spark cobalt]

So if the problem is that without a safety net, there's no risk taking. What incites Americans, and like every other first world nation without this safety net to take risks?

[brittle thorn]

Nah there is

My argument is the safety net can help with the risk taking

[spark cobalt]

Do you think that trying too much is an issue? After all, there's an infinite ways to do things wrong, and only a few ways to do something right.

[brittle thorn]

Which is why we should try more

More chances to get it right with more experiments

Not less

[spark cobalt]

Natural resources are not infinite. If we scaled this upwards, there's a limit to where any sort of sustainability is tossed out of the window.

You cannot have infinite companies creating various wood products. Wood is finite.

[brittle thorn]

But human creativity may not be

Ideas breed more ideas

[spark cobalt]

Well, first off. You do agree that this idea is not scalable right?

[brittle thorn]

Depends on implementation

We do see a viable welfare state in Scandinavia

They got good stats all around

May not be implementable in all parts of the world but why not try to implement even partially

It's about maximizing human potential

[spark cobalt]

In a free market economy, there's thousands of companies using wood. And ultimately, these thousands of companies are competing for a slice of that finite amount of wood.

The ones that get the largest share are the ones that are able to sell their product for the most profit. So first are things like necessities. People probably need paper or housing the most.

If we keep scaling this to more and more companies, fighting for the same share of wood, it's simply not possible to support the housing or support the paper needs with all these "failed attempts" failing and constantly taking up resources that will end up going nowhere.

[brittle thorn]

There are alternatives to wood

Mud, stone, concrete

Go outside see the soil be creative

[spark cobalt]

Sure. That's where capitalism comes in. How viable is a mud table? Someone will try it out and probably fail. Maybe it's viable in poorer nations where they can sell mud tables for cheap?

[brittle thorn]

Make a mud hut

[spark cobalt]

I assume you're fond with the very low business regulations (besides labor regulations) found in the Nordic model?

[brittle thorn]

At any rate we can find substitutes the price sets incentive in free market

Kinda

Should be easy to set up a corporation

A lot more experiments

[spark cobalt]

Business regulations do mess with small businesses the most. What if the low business regulations are the cause for more experiments to happen in Scandinavia?

In fact, I haven't ever heard of this welfare for risk takers thing before. I tried Googling and couldn't find anything so just going off your word.

I mean, I guess we agree to the explanation to why many companies are moving to Texas

[brittle thorn]

https://youtu.be/0tBtXUlEKdY

[brittle thorn]

Yes California is killing itself

[dense mesa]

You vill own nossing and you vill eat zee boogz

[brittle thorn]

Love Swedish meatballs ate some at a Danish owned startup

[dreamy spade]

I don't know why interviewers ask "What do you do outside of work?". That should not be any of their business , What I do outside of work isn't part of the company's business and should only focus on the business.

[spark cobalt]

It's not a surprise there's less inequality when it's practically a state of only one race of people. Because the nations are generally smaller, there's less disparities in culture between different regions as well.

There's a lot of things that these Nordic countries have for granted that's not accounted into their culture etc.

We have yet to complete the first step. Unification.

I personally don't think it'll ever happen but I'm a pessimist

[dreamy shadow]

It's a way to connect to you. Just prep an answer like: I like to read, and give a bs book name.

[spark cobalt]

You're more than your bullet points on your resume.

[sleek egret]

That ask in america because if they don't, people complain that companies don't care about them "as a person"

[spark cobalt]

Also company fun events happen! Hopefully you don't plan to talk about work then...

[dreamy shadow]

Company and fun is an oxymoron. Edit grammar

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy spade]

I never join those.

[sleek egret]

or maybe morons find company ox's fun?

[dreamy shadow]

No one asks you to join them. Just don't be surprised to be passed up in promotions?

[dreamy spade]

I still feel like I'm at work when I go there because there's still a work etiquette to maintain.

[sleek egret]

What a surprise that is. lol 😵‍💫

[dreamy spade]

And with alcohol involved, there's a recipe for disaster.

[spark cobalt]

I love my company events. They give me a lot of food :3

[sleek egret]

hardly, it's a way to see who has self-control or not

[spark cobalt]

Nothing ever happens at our happy hours at work

[dreamy shadow]

What do you expect? Your coworker start strip dancing?

[sleek egret]

I knew a woman who ran a small software co that sold to banks... she was an ex-marine. she'd take her senior management team on these wilderness treks. once she forced them to fly into the deep bush in alaska and then hike back through the wilderness.

[dreamy spade]

Nothing. That's why I don't go.

[spark cobalt]

That sounds like so much fun wtf

[sleek egret]

she was tough as nails

[dreamy shadow]

Until you start to get hungry

[sleek egret]

A few jobs back, the company would organize paintball outings. great fun to shoot those you didn't like.

[spark cobalt]

THAT SOUNDS AMAZING I don't dislike anyone at my company but paintballing so fun

[sleek egret]

not to KeezyEnraged. he hates it when companies treat you like an actual person

[dreamy shadow]

Boss: Why tf is everyone aiming at Mr, IM ON YOUR TEAM

[spark cobalt]

I have like no friends in SJ, so being able to do fun event things is always a blessing

[dreamy shadow]

Just be one with caveman

[sleek egret]

My current co is mostly remote. so this year we had two outings where teams could actually meet face to face ... one in orlando and one in vegas. they were quite productive.

[spark cobalt]

Hard to find friends my age. My youngest friend that lives in SJ is over 2x older than me.

[sleek egret]

some of the guys went golfing, some went shooting, some went to disney, etc

[dreamy spade]

There's too many work politics. Even for work retreats. I had a cousin of mine go on his work retreats and every retreat he would bring in a different female companion until his manager told him that he can't do that anymore like it affects his work performance or something.

[sleek egret]

during the day we worked. and then ate out/had fun together at night. it was well worth the $$$ the company spent on it

[sleek egret]

it effects the other people there

honestly, that was poor judgement on your cousin's part

[dreamy spade]

When you can't bring in people to tag along with you at social gatherings, that becomes a problem to me.

That would never happen with friend retreats

[sleek egret]

one hookup is funny, two is "hmmm". more makes people judge you poorly

[dreamy shadow]

Inb4 your not even supposed to bring people

[sleek egret]

company retreats are not "social outints"

see, this is why all kids should be forced to play in a team sport (or team something) during their early schooling

[spark cobalt]

Do you have kids rmah

[dreamy shadow]

Lmao, all pandemic home schooled kids:

[sleek egret]

the only thing I'll say about my private life is that I used to be a kid

[spark cobalt]

Shit, never knew. Thanks for sharing

[sleek egret]

heh

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy shadow]

[spark cobalt]

You have all the niche emotes

[dreamy shadow]

Airport wifi is garbage, hope that didn't double send

[spark cobalt]

It didn't

Going home for holidays?

[dreamy shadow]

Visiting family with covid for the holidays

[spark cobalt]

Aww. Hope everything works out 😔

[dreamy shadow]

Booked a hotel and wearing mask. Should be fine.

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy shadow]

[spark cobalt]

Volume 1 of like 11. JFC

This is gonna take years for me to complete.

[flat valley]

Sounds like that video by bill wurtz

If a picture is worth a thousand words, the video is about 20 minutes, and the frame rate is 30fps, that's:

60×30×1000

[sleek egret]

that's a lotta words

[spark cobalt]

Will Durant went ham

[flat valley]

Whoops, there's more

[sleek egret]

how come no one ever "goes pork"?

[flat valley]

Times that by 20

[dreamy shadow]

Why not "gone cow"

[spark cobalt]

I was about to say maybe cuz of religious stuff, then realized ham also came from pigs

[sleek egret]

indeed

[spark cobalt]

Ohh HAM is acronym for hard as a motherfucker.

So go ham is go hard as a mf

[dreamy shadow]

What, I feel like that's new.

[flat valley]

I expect your 180000 page book to come out soon

[dreamy spade]

After doing more further research on interview questions, the ulterior motive behind those questions gives me the reason to believe that the interview is some sort of exam or test.

Apparently, when you are asked "Do you have any questions for me?" you are suppose to say "Yes." and ask a few questions.

[spark cobalt]

I mean, since you've never worked at that company before there's presumably a lot of things you don't know and possibly warrants a question

[sleek egret]

dude, the entire interview is some sort of exam or test

[spark cobalt]

Yep

[white relic]

It is an examination, in that you are being examined to decide if you are a good candidate, and it is your opportunity to examine the interviewer in turn to find out if it is a good company to work for

I've been in interviews where I asked a lot of questions. I've been in others where I asked pretty much no questions. I don't think it's a "gotcha" so much as it's just good sense to engage with the interviewer and find out as much as you can

[dreamy spade]

I was more so surprised about the ulterior motives behind all of the questions. The interviews are a psychiatric evaluation unbeknownst to you.

[sleek egret]

it's not unbenownst

[white relic]

For my current position I felt like I was the interviewer, I asked all the questions

[sleek egret]

it's obvious. and the motives are not ulterior. they are explicit and clear

[dreamy spade]

Well it was to me. I didn't know "Do you have any questions for me?" question was a test to see if I was interested in the job.

[sleek egret]

nice power play. i love it when I can do that

[spark cobalt]

It's not only the company's side that determines whether you're a good culture fit. But you as well.

[sleek egret]

I don't understand, what did you think the interview was? a chat between mates over a pint?

[mortal wedge]

That is part of it, yeah.

[dreamy spade]

I thought the interview was learning about my background, seeing if I graduated and what projects I worked on, what I did on those projects and etc.

[sleek egret]

yes, in order to assess and judge you. i.e. it's a test of sorts

[white relic]

I mean, yeah. But this is probably not (barring an extremely fringe interviewer) the deciding factor as to whether you get the job; it's like a third order thing probably

[dreamy spade]

I never expected an entire personality and behavior examination. I thought it was all about my skills.

[spark cobalt]

The ideal end goal of an interview is to get a candidate that is a good fit for the team culturally and technically. They cannot assess the cultural part really well until you're actually on the job, you should strive to see if the company has a culture you're interested in partaking.

[spark cobalt]

I'm sure you've worked with assholes before. Whether during school or other work you've done before. They may be qualified but it can bring a team's morale down, make them unnessecarily stressed, etc. And managers want to avoid that.

[dreamy spade]

All right. Well now I am slowly learning about the type of game they play now.

[white relic]

Think of it more like a first (or perhaps second) date

[balmy mural]

Interview with the company I'm starting at I had no questions. I told them that my main questions would have been X and Y, but we kinda covered that in the rest of the interview already

[spark cobalt]

Good strat

[dreamy spade]

The more research I have done about these interview questions, the more I feel like I have uncovered the intent up their sleeves.

[balmy mural]

There's no hidden intent. They want to assess your skills and abilities, and determine if you'll fit into the team culture

[white relic]

It really isn't "up their sleeves" lol

They wanted to know if you had any curiosity about the job or the company, and you said you didnt

[dreamy spade]

Well it was hidden to me because I didn't know "Do you have any questions for me?" was a test to see if I was engaged. I didn't know "What do you do outside of work?" was a test to see if I am "fun" to be around.

[spark cobalt]

I think trent mentioned already, but this is your kind of first impression you're giving to the company. Like a first date. Are you not going to ask your first date any questions? They'll feel like you're not interested.

[white relic]

Yeah, that's a factor in the decision process, and maybe you weren't adequately prepared for that by your past experiences, but its not like it was a trick question or a trap

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, that's good to bring up. I've done that before. "I would normally ask X, but based on our discussions I think the answer is Y"

[spark cobalt]

Clarification works really great lol.

[mortal wedge]

Didn't you complain before that it's hard for you to get information from a company, because sometimes people lie? The company is in the same boat. They're trying to get X information from you in a way they can trust.

[dreamy spade]

Didn't you complain before that it's hard for you to get information from a company, because sometimes people lie?

I don't think that was me. I don't remember saying that.

[dreamy shadow]

Well. Either way now you know and can prepare better

[mortal wedge]

Okay. Apologies. Someone with a similar pfp was asking questions about if a company is a good fit because they have a lot of juniors and didn't want to be training anyone.

[balmy mural]

Yea, that was someone else

[spark cobalt]

There's lots of small things you help with your interview. Something that I found to work great is remembering people's names. Going back for a second round and remembering the lady at the front's name. Addressing people directy with their name instead of using something like "hey", etc. People will think you care for something even as small as this (and even moreso when they probably forgot your name.)

The interviewer is also human.

It's kind of a game within itself and a game that can be easily mastered with practice and trial and error.

[mortal wedge]

YEah. It's not a slam dunk by any chance, but it does help your chances if one or multiple interviewers like you

[white relic]

Interviewing definitely takes practice. Also sometimes you just get unlucky and completely fail to click with the interviewer. It can be frustrating to miss out on an opportunity for no reason or a dumb reason - I've been there

[spark cobalt]

Start with standard conversations. What makes you feel good when conversing with another human being?

Standard things like not interrupting, maintaining eye contacting, nodding every once and a while to connote understanding, clarifications, etc.

You're really just talking to another human being that used to be in the same position as you.

[mortal wedge]

All you can do is practice and develop the skill of interviewing

[dreamy shadow]

I messed up on this once. They said call me Y, I said X because the next interview person came in and I forgot.

[mortal wedge]

Oof

[spark cobalt]

Oof

[dreamy shadow]

The rest of the interview went well too lmao

[spark cobalt]

Nice

[dreamy shadow]

just at the end, smh even made a mental note at the start

[spark cobalt]

@dreamy spade The best kinds of interviews, and I think for both the interviewer and the interviewee is when the interview becomes more conversational rather than back and forth firing Q&As. And a lot of it has to be initiated by the interviewee.

Makes you more memorable compared to other candidates, you actually end up enjoying the interview just talking to another engineer, etc.

[dreamy spade]

If anything I would have rather took a job interview course in college than some useless elective. It would have been much more valuable. I would have learned way earlier that the interview is a psychiatric evaluation through oblivion and every question tests your behavioral responses.

[spark cobalt]

Most of the time, inteviewers probably don't even want to be there. They'd likely rather just be programming. It's kind of a community service thing.

Showing you're personable, you can click with the interviewer, etc. is a huge + in terms of behavioral and culture fit wise.

[mortal wedge]

I highly encourage you to seek out career centers. They may have free classes. But yeah, I think school should teach important things like that

[dreamy shadow]

My pro tip is to Google the answer. As my initial answer is usually wrong.

[mortal wedge]

I can almost guarantee you that while companies may desperately want new candidates, NOBODY wants to be interviewing.

[spark cobalt]

Lots of cases of people getting the job for being more likeable as a person even though they were slightly less qualified than another candidate. You can easily be both.

Like me for example. I was probably the most unqualified candidate that ever applied to the company I work for now. (I'm a high school grad, most people applying are Masters/PhD. )

[dreamy spade]

Lots of cases of people getting the job for being more likeable as a person even though they were slightly less qualified than another candidate.

Don't you think this was poor judgement of the hiring manager?

[mortal wedge]

Not necessarily. Skills can be trained. Culture fit often not.

[spark cobalt]

A poor culture fit can tank a team harder than someone that is slightly less qualified.

[peak halo]

if one candidate is only slightly less qualified than another, that gap can probably be easily bridged. Being insufferable is much harder to bridge.

[spark cobalt]

You can probably assume that qualifications between candidates for a role is similar after the many filtering stages of resumes.

[mortal wedge]

I've advocated strongly for someone who was friendly, good at explaining topics, and was a good culture fit, even if their experience was lacking.

I've also failed to get them hired, but.... ymmv. Their chances were far better with me advocating for them than not

[dreamy shadow]

Imo, good at explaining requires a deep understanding of the topic

[mortal wedge]

We interviewed some PROFESSORS who were trash at explaining things. They were by far the most advanced on paper, but I advocated against them in that case

[dreamy shadow]

Profs don't count.

[spark cobalt]

This is such a bruh moment

[mortal wedge]

I was flabbergasted

[stable elbow]

as a recent student, can confirm. some profs are awful

[white relic]

The difference in expectations re: soft skills between academia and industry is almost universally recognized

[stable elbow]

i think throughout my entire university career, there were 2 profs who were good at explaining things

[mortal wedge]

It's literally your job to explain these things. Maybe it was nerves or pressure or whatever, but I don't want a resource on my team who can't explain anything they're working on

[dreamy shadow]

Profs job is to write papers for most university. Teaching comes second, and often last

[mortal wedge]

Oftentimes professors are just teaching to ensure they get their research grants

[dreamy shadow]

Also, teaching imo requires courses on how to teach. I took an education course once as a joke, but what they taught made a lot of sense.

[mortal wedge]

But yeah, grade school teachers require teaching credentials proving they know how to teach. That same standard does not hold true for professors

[peak halo]

my CS department has teaching faculty and research faculty as separate designations. and the research faculty only taught upper-level courses that related to their research areas.

[mortal wedge]

Nice

[spark cobalt]

The only thing that sucks is that a lot of grade school teachers don't really know the topic they teach super well. Super hard to get best of both worlds 😔

Especially in STEM related stuff.

[peak halo]

and the teaching faculty were expected to be good at explaining things. but there were instances where this was famously untrue.

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. I'm not sure which is worse tbh. Someone that knows a little but is good at explaining what they know vs someone who knows a lot but is mostly incapable of passing that information to someone else

[dreamy shadow]

Former is better than the latter. If you can't explain it, then you might as well know nothing. We are too dependent on communication

[spark cobalt]

Hard to say. A lot of STEM in grade school devolves to patterns you can mindlessly apply without understanding the underlying theory or concepts.

Promotes, imo, a lot of why kids say math is boring or they hate STEM.

[dreamy shadow]

Fun don't bring in the

[mortal wedge]

Hard for me to relate if I'm being honest. I was a gamer from a young age and my parents saw an opportunity to get me hooked on some good educational games/ game series. It worked.

[spark cobalt]

It's never taught in a manner that's like "so this is why our world works this way" or something. Always taught as "if you see this kind of bracket, just do this"

Very little inspiration and practicism in the textbooks of common core

[dreamy shadow]

Oregon trail, that one typing game

[mortal wedge]

The Super Solver series was on fire and was very educational

[spark cobalt]

My dad was a physics professor, so was pretty lucky and he taught me a lot of things.

[dreamy shadow]

I honestly never read any of my college text books lol

[sleek egret]

You're talking about kids who don't know what an element is. who don't know that ice and water are the same thing. who don't know that stars arnd planet sare different

[spark cobalt]

Right now studying physics under his mentorship.

[mortal wedge]

Now I want to hunt down those old educational games and see how they hold up in 2022

[sleek egret]

you cannot think and analyze without a foundation of facts. it's really that simple.

[dreamy shadow]

Apparently you can.

[balmy spade]

Math Muncher is still top tier.

[spark cobalt]

I'm saying that this is all fundamentally interesting. But schools devolve it through hard memory tests in other related common core bs.

[mortal wedge]

Loved that one as well!

[dreamy shadow]

Wtf is the new term? Something truths instead of "facts"

[sleek egret]

You are incorrect. 90% of kids don't find any of it interesting in any way.

[mortal wedge]

It's no child left behind and the maximin theory. The goal isn't to promote deep dives for the more engaged students, it's to raise the capabilities of the lowest performing students.

[sleek egret]

school exists to force kids to learn shit they don't want to learn.

[spark cobalt]

And that's where the problem is. The learning is devolved into something the student that doesn't care can do. Which is mindlessly filling in blanks on a paper.

[dreamy shadow]

Well, kids don't really want to learn by sitting still for 8 hours so

[spark cobalt]

When someone who is truly fascinated about something goes through like 10 years of school and this is the reality of what science is to them, of course they'll think it's boring!

[sleek egret]

it used to be far far FAR more rote memorization

[delicate bane]

same tbh. and i guess im still a kid on the inside

[sleek egret]

school is for the 80%. you cannot sacrifice the well being of average kids in order to cater to the top 10%

[spark cobalt]

We also then push so much time up in their schedule that we end up punishing them spending time on pursuing their own curiosities outside of school.

[mortal wedge]

Okay, I apologize to everyone. I can't believe I talked about educational children's' games without mentioning Carmen San Diego

[sleek egret]

life's not fair. get used to it.

[spark cobalt]

Sure. I just think that our current education system is partly at fault for this insanely wide spectrum of students in terms of ability.

[mortal wedge]

Life may not be fair, but there's no reason we can't try to move towards that benchmark

[spark cobalt]

Always ways to improve.

[sleek egret]

the way to improve schools today is to go back to more rote memorization. the ignorance of students is crazy

[delicate bane]

wow when i wanted to talk about education, it was dead. now look at this lol. oh well, im gonna go eat dinner. hf guys.

[spark cobalt]

Cya enjoy

[sleek egret]

oh, and failing at least 10%

later rex

[spark cobalt]

Yeah this I agree with. Punishment for failing classes is just way too light.

Students in my HS fail like half the classes they take and still graduate.

[mortal wedge]

I disagree. The problem with rote memorization is that without any engagement/understanding, it just gets forgotten.

[dreamy shadow]

Obviously the death penalty applies

[sleek egret]

some of it, sure. but some of it not. better to remember some than none.

[dreamy shadow]

Midocontrioa is the powerhouse of the cell

[spark cobalt]

I think rote memorization is just inefficient. The next level of math containing like 80% of the previous year's math is :/

[mortal wedge]

I took an Organic Chemistry class. The only thing I really still remember is how to cook Meth

[sleek egret]

I recall seeing a survey that showed that 20% of HS students thought that Canada was a US state. it's that bad.

[dreamy shadow]

Math builds on previously learned topics

[mortal wedge]

But I memorized SO MUCH in that class. I could tell you the structures of so many chemical compounds and could draw them all out, too

[sleek egret]

I've met HS kids who didn't know that planets orbited the sun

[spark cobalt]

Yes, but literally up till 8th grade, the year still started off with how to add multiple digit numbers. And I was in the fucking advanced math class

[viscid forge]

career discussion is cool and all but you can be that one guy in my state who had 6 pounds of cocaine for a career (joking don't take this into consideration, cocaine dealing is illegal)

[spark cobalt]

Like how low we're going... we're just stooping too low imo.

[vapid jay]

had to explain code with fourier transforms and autocorrelation for a coding interview... i don't think i'm getting the job lol

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy shadow]

All part of algebra. Also, our top class in high school was Calc 2

[mortal wedge]

Ah hah... I can do that. I do that a lot.

[sleek egret]

A guy I knew in university got busted for narcotics trafficking and went upstate for a few years. when he came back, he was ... different

[vapid jay]

please enlighten me with the dark arts of signal processing 🙏

[mortal wedge]

Were you applying to a DSP/Algorithm role?

[sleek egret]

my advice: don't get caught

[spark cobalt]

Ok but like, how are you doing 9 years of addition and can't do that is beyond me.

[viscid forge]

what was different about him

[dreamy shadow]

Also, I hated chemistry. My teacher gave me a shifty group, and when they didn't do their work. The teacher said if I wanted a better grade, I should do all of it.

[vapid jay]

it was a technical documentation role lol

[sleek egret]

all you need to know is fourier transforms!

[mortal wedge]

WHAT?!?!?! Why on earth would you need to know that, then?

[vapid jay]

i had to explain the code that someone wrote for their thesis on detecting circular motion with accelerometers

[dreamy shadow]

Lmao, the pick up this poo and polish it role

[sleek egret]

maybe so he'd know what he was writing

[viscid forge]

also advice: find somewhere else to get money

[mortal wedge]

Even with a deep knowledge of the topic, that code better be well documented beforehand

[vapid jay]

it was quite well documented :3 just untyped 2018 python code lol

at least i got the main logic part of a loop that was buffering data from the accelerometer right

but kinda stumbled on sockets cos anxious

[mortal wedge]

But uh, to answer your questions. Raw digital signals are in the time/power domain. This means that you can see how much power is in sensor at different points in time. A fourier transform will turn that time/power signal into frequency/power, so you can see how the power looks at different frequency oscillations.

Autocorrelation checks signal stability. Specifically, it compares the signal at the present time to the signal at a future time. If it doesn't change much, this means that it has a high autocorrelation.

Finally, when using an accelerometer to detect circular motion, there are two strategies/techniques of interest. 1) You expect a constant acceleration and 2) the acceleration is pointing to the same place in space. This is because circular motion is defined as a single acceleration vector pointing to the center of the circle. So circular motion would probably show up as a constant rotating vector in an accelerometer

[vapid jay]

yeahh the autocorrelation i think was to detect the most likely frequency for the signal and so that the acceleration of x and y axis could be mapped to a sinusoidal line of best fit

[mortal wedge]

There are fancy algorithms to determine the appropriate time distance between checking the signal, but I've never had to care to that degree.

[vapid jay]

ahh alrr

[mortal wedge]

I actually have no idea how that time lag is determined >.>

[vapid jay]

the last part is about what they did i think

[vapid jay]

me neither :3 i'm failing maths

[mortal wedge]

Aww 😦

[vapid jay]

i'll get a tutor next semester and i should be fine :3

[mortal wedge]

Sounds like a plan!

I always just tried to flirt make friends with the smartest person in every class, haha. That's how I got through college.

[vapid jay]

fair enough lol

[spark cobalt]

Leave some for the rest of us

[royal forge]

Hi everyone. I bought and wanted to start the “Data Science from Scratch” book, but it suggested I had some fluency in Python.

I checked the resources page, but wasn’t sure which one was recommended for me to get up to speed to start the other book.

any suggestions?

[mortal wedge]

Without knowing more about which learning style works best for you, the most popular resource seems to be the book "Automate the Boring Stuff"

[stable elbow]

@mortal wedge does this textbook rely on any packages that might have been updated or abandoned?

[mortal wedge]

No idea. I would assume if there are any library differences that they're generally inconsequential since it's still regarded so highly by the community.

[stable elbow]

ooh

[brittle thorn]

That's pretty smart lmao

[spark cobalt]

Part 2, maybe. But Part 1, no.

[royal forge]

Thank you!

[brave bridge]

pin

[spark cobalt]

You can use the .bm command to bookmark something

[flat anvil]

Click the button to be sent your very own bookmark to [this message](#career-advice message).

[spark cobalt]

.bm And then press the button

[flat anvil]

Noooooo!!

@spark cobalt, please enable your DMs to receive the bookmark.

Click the button to be sent your very own bookmark to [this message](#career-advice message).

You blew it.

@balmy spade, please enable your DMs to receive the bookmark.

[brave bridge]

how can i un-bookmark it?

[balmy spade]

My DMs are enabled Lancy

[spark cobalt]

Idk

[brave bridge]

skeleton

bone

[quasi pelican]

How do you generate formal portfolio for software engineering?

what type of programs should be shown on the CV and all?

[brittle thorn]

Ah this https://youtu.be/2E0dWHCnic8

[brittle thorn]

Organic Chem books are so thicc

[brittle thorn]

Not just youtube see https://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/the-flight-of-the-creative-class-the-new-global-competition-for-talent

Instead, he says, economic success depends on a country's "ability to mobilize, attract, and retain human creative talent." And, like any good economist, (Florida is a professor of public policy at George Mason University), he has created a way to measure a country's creative competitiveness: the Global Creativity Index (GCI).

Florida bases the GCI on three elements of economic growth: technology, talent, and tolerance. His data indicates that the United States trails in the race for creativity, in fourth place behind Sweden, Japan, and Finland

(US better fix some policies to address talent and tolerance )

[spark cobalt]

Moved to ot

[peak halo]

what is PDT?

@modern ore what was your reason for wanting to work there?

how much were you hoping to earn there?

this is in US dollars? they're not going to pay that much to someone without significant prior experience.

what? it's a meme?

Glassdoor says that they pay 143k to senior software developers, and 372k to a VP of technology

which one of what?

I'm talking about PDT Partners...

Sorry, the 143 number was for "associate systems and applications developer". the senior swe is 182

[smoky quest]

I don't think so

That would be closer to 130k

base

TC is more variable as some people just lump the whole equity instead of dividing it by the vesting period

[static lily]

Im really good at coding/programing with web dev and random python stuff, but I don't know where to sell my experience. I've tried things like fiver and upwork, but never was able to get any work or projects to make. I really want to make money from coding but I don't have enough time for a full job, how can I make money from coding?

[cosmic summit]

fiver and upwork are not the only places to look for side gigs online forums, classified sites, and local businesses have been good sources for me.

[rare flicker]

other careers are scared of machines taking over their jobs

programmers are bringing it upon themselves lol

[viscid marten]

Upwork is all about your cover letter. If you put most of your effort into making a unique one to each job you'll land a crap ton of jobs.

[summer roost]

Nah.

[floral ruin]

hi

im a 2nd year student for CS and i have no work experience in this filed or created any projects where i learned skills. Any tips on what i can do to land a job by january?

[vapid jay]

Sup

[upbeat pelican]

Hello all. I just recieved my first developer job offering after one year od learning. But i'm kinda bummed out as it doesnt allow remote work compared to my previous job as a sap consultant. I wanted this so hard but now im kinda scared to step out of the comfort zone? Has anyone been in this situation to share an advice or two? I think i should just risk it and go for it. The office is 10 minute walk anyways.

[vapid jay]

How are you gonna progress if you dont step out your comfort zone

[upbeat pelican]

That is true and the reason im leaning towards accepting the job and say fk it.

[stoic timber]

What is the office like ? Maybe you can request a quiet room or floor where there aren't too many people so you won't be overwhelmed

[stoic timber]

In my office there are hot desks/shared desks so depending on my mood I can sit with other people or by myself

[upbeat pelican]

It's a nice office and the people i've met were really nice. And yeah, they have quiet rooms 😄 I think im just spoiled now but the career is mostly a dead end in my country and i'm sick of accounting. This is something i chased for a long time and i just cant understand why i am scared now since i wanted it so badly and sacrifised a lot of social time after work to study. Cold feet syndrome i guess 😄

[obsidian pewter]

yeah been there and yolo and took the offer

im not in a developer position but i switched industries and its been quite an eye opening experience. scary and challenging no doubt but well worth it

[vapid jay]

do you guys think job opportunities for rust will become very broad in the near future?

especially in gaming, for example they've already built a flash player emulator in rust (https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle)

[dense mesa]

Yes

[vapid jay]

FUCK

I GOT THE JOB

I AM NEVER THINKING ABOUT SIGNAL PROCESSING EVER AGAIN

[buoyant seal]

Sure. Rust is at the moment kind of the only replacement to C
But it is a very long future for it to become popular. In 5 or 10 years probably.

At the same time c++ is seeked to be replaced by Carbon
Which is even further in a future

At the end of a day we remain with C#/C++/Java today. xD

[tepid night]

Anyone is an data analyst?

[gilded valley]

Yes

[tepid night]

How long?

[gilded valley]

What is your question, what information or advice are you looking for?

[buoyant seal]

Dont ask to ask, just ask. And read the guide how to ask good questions
#❓｜how-to-get-help https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources/guides/asking-good-questions/

Be specific about what you need help with, make sure to include a code example, the error message (if you got one), and an explanation of the problem. Don’t share code or error messages as screenshots, because those helping often need to copy parts of the code or error. If your question still doesn’t get answered, try reading our guide on asking good questions and try again.

Good to check web site dontasktoask.com also

[gilded valley]

I'm not willing to talk in DMs. Ask your question here.

[tepid night]

Hello, I’m wondering if you could tell me what exactly you’re doing as an data analyst. How you got your first job and if you can make money as an teenager.

[gilded valley]

My current role is a weird sort of cludge between data scientist, data analyst, and data engineer.

I got the role via an internship I did between my second and penultimate years of university.

A typical data analyst is taking some unknown, often messy, dataset. Doing some basic cleaning, then using tools like data visualisation and relatively simple statistics to extract insights from the information.

[tepid night]

Yes, why?

Romania..

[delicate bane]

cludge between data scientist, data analyst, and data engineer
sounds familiar.

[hearty island]

probably what i’ll end up doing too

[delicate bane]

i thought you were aiming for a dev role or nah

[tepid night]

Can you earn money while you’re in college. If you can, you just go to companies and ask them to clean their data?

[long lake]

Guys, couldn't you help me?

[spark cobalt]

You can try internships. At least in America, software engineer internships are typically paid. You can also see if you can do some part time tutoring, etc.

The obvious thing is trying to attend to two full time responsibilities. Part time developer roles are very rare...

[long lake]

Someone give me the code that turns seconds into minutes and hours.

[spark cobalt]

This channel is for careers. If you need help with your code go to #1035199133436354600 or #python-discussion

[tepid night]

Very helpful, thank you !

[true shoal]

Hello! I am in my 12th grade, going to college next year. After a year of career-decision crisis, figuring out whether to pursue Nursing or computer-related, I've decided that I will take a computer-related course.

My question is what's the best course for me to take (IT/Comp. Sci/Data Sci) if I want a job with lesser math and lesser programming. I must say I'm good at math but I would like a job that requires less math and programming knowledge; especially critical thinking and analysis could be sometimes challenging for me to do. I'm not even sure if I'd survive college if I take any computer-related courses but I'll go for it anyway. Any advice is very much appreciated. Thank you!

[ruby olive]

I'm making an open source game that uses free assets on Itch.io
What kind of license should I use for that project?
I don't mind making it MIT but since I'm using other peoples assets what should I do legally?
What is the safest approach ?

[pastel quail]

if you don’t want a path that requires math or programming, i recommend going the nursing route instead tbh

[vapid jay]

Yes

[true harness]

if you don't want to do programming or math, why choose IT/CS/DS? programming and math make up those entire fields

[true shoal]

@pastel quail @true harness hi! For so many reasons (mainly bc of financial needs), I decided not to pursue Nursing. Especially in my country, nurses are quite underpaid, and I am the breadwinner of my family. It's not that I 'fully' hate programming and math; I just wonder which course has lesser math and programming because that's what I'll likely take.

Tbh I just dread failing in college because of math/programming but other than that, I'm good with that computer-related courses. I get good grades in math and our ICT subject at school.

In fact, we are a family of Nurses and they themselves are telling me not to pursue it 💀. And I've spoken to ppl who are Exec. Heads of American Companies here basically telling me to pursue computer-related course regardless.

i edited it sorry for the confusion

I mean, they are citizens of my country who are now working in big American companies situated here. So before they did, they worked their way up to where they are now. Basically, I just asked for their experience and advice. They told me that its no problem to take a computer-related course because they themselves are not good in math back then etc.

Thank you so much for your help. I'll do more research about the courses.

Even if its in demand, its quite competitive in the field, isn't it 🥹

Did you also take an internship as a college student?

over the summer break?

[delicate bane]

if you arent strong in math/programming, have you considered getting tutoring/assistance in those areas?

or find ways to improve those areas on your own? it will be tougher but at least it would help you get through your schooling.

[balmy mural]

^^
Once you get through schooling, you likely won't use most of the math you struggled with unless you target jobs where it would be required. And programming would just be practice, you probably won't struggle with it more than the average dev once you start working

[white relic]

@true shoal just FYI, nursing informatics is a big field and there's plenty of demand for people with medical training and technical knowhow in the States - maybe also in your country. If that is something you'd be interested in, you might be suited to it because of your interests and family background.

Would not necessarily be easy, but the demand exists

people in the medical profession... Most professions, tbh... are not known for being good with computers and they need to use them a lot.

[mortal wedge]

Wooo!!!! Congratulations!!!!

[rare flicker]

Have you seen OpenAI?

[balmy mural]

You can see someone trying to do adventofcode with ChatGPT here: https://github.com/golergka/advent-of-code-2022-with-chat-gpt
You'll see they didn't really get very far and it was a struggle to get it to solve the problem. ChatGPT is just another tool you can use, it won't take over developer jobs

[dreamy spade]

For an Email Developer role, how does the HTML and JavaScript get produced in the email if an email requires plain text?

[true shoal]

Before you messaged, i actually asked my parents if they were okay for me to be mentored/tutored by someone for math. Its a relief they said yes

[true shoal]

Wow ive heard of this before but you made me remember it. I’ll do a research on that too tyvm!

[delicate bane]

thats good! im glad that you have a plan going forward

[hearty island]

nah that was just for learning DS/algos

[delicate bane]

ah gotcha gotcha mb. its a good track i think to move towards, a data role. but im biased lol

[slim glacier]

Does anyone know Technion Institute of Technology in Israel ?

[patent grove]

how much should i get paid for data engineering in the bay?
at like a top 200 fortune company
i cant find any salaries on data engineering, should i just compare it to data scientist salaries?

[delicate bane]

i would compare to software engineering but maybe someone from the bay area can weigh in

[obsidian pewter]

maybe try and find a salary guide and going towards the higher end of the role title

[peak halo]

Look at what their software engineers, data scientists, and AI or ML engineers make. A company that hires data engineers probably hires at least two of those other groups. You could try to approximate from there

[vapid jay]

Evening!

What are the best jobs in IT sector

[delicate bane]

best is subjective 🙂

[brittle thorn]

Maybe ask best fit for yourself

But we dunno you

[compact cosmos]

Software Engineer, Data scientist, Database Engineer...

[worn moth]

whats the difference between a quant analyst and a quant dev?

[vapid jay]

hi guys

can someone answer me for a question?

what's the best methode to learn python and for free?

[spare patio]

I have a dumb question, but what kind of programming/coding (not necessarily 100% code related) job can be done more of a side job? Stuff like data analysis and software engineer is full time dedication. Anything out there that isn't as demanding and can be learned rather quickly?

[spark cobalt]

Maybe some scripting as a freelancer.

[spark cobalt]

!resources I personally prefer books. There's some free stuff here:

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[spare patio]

What about web dev/design? Where I live the market isn't very high afaik

[spark cobalt]

Typically most jobs available for UI/UX and tech in general are full time.

I can't really say if creativity can be learned rather quickly...? Different projects generally require a different way to create a UI for in a manner that makes the most sense for the user. Lot of creative liberty in this.

Either way, web development, especially frontend, is generally easy to get into. The frameworks aren't extremely difficult and the bar of entry isn't that high.

The only thing is just finding that part time job.

[slate rivet]

hi guys

[radiant wigeon]

Hey ppl, so I'm tryna buy a laptop for my college, but I'm confused which one to buy... My parents say that a working laptop is good, but my friends say a gaming laptop has high performance so go for it, and my budget is just $1100, can someone help me?

[true harness]

maybe move to an off topic channel?

[oak bloom]

Hi

[fallow tusk]

Hello if i found a job post on linkedin and it says that i send my online portfolio in the email provided what does it mean? A portfolio website?

[languid hawk]

Guys, next year I'll continuing degree, is it better pursuing software engineering/cybersecurity/artificial intelligence??

[graceful mason]

Do you want to work in software engineering, cybersecurity, or AI?

[graceful mason]

Could mean a personal website or just github, depends what sort of job it is

[languid hawk]

At first I want to work in software engineering, but when I know about cybersecurity and AI course, I think it is worth studying

[balmy mural]

For a bachelors, I think a general software engineering degree is better than shoehorning yourself into a specific role. You can likely take electives in what you're more interested in during your final year

[floral ruin]

Industrial placement

Uk

Like before final year of degree you can do work for placement

So its 4 years total rather than 3 years of degree

[gilded valley]

@floral ruin Speak to your university careers department

[patent grove]

this specific company has nothing on it :l

[dreamy spade]

The ideal candidate:
Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Engineering, Computer Science, or equivalent work experience
Minimum 3 years of professional experience in JavaScript Frameworks (Angular JS or React), writing client-side JavaScript applications using web technologies
Experience and proficient knowledge of HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, and CSS Modules
Experience working in an SAP CCv2 environment, with a cloud based headless CMS an asset
Knowledge of REST web services, and Spring Frameworks
Experience with one or more of the following Cloud technologies including AWS, Google Cloud, or Azure is preferred
Good verbal and written English

3 years of professional experience with JavaScript for an Entry-level Front-End Developer position smh.

[near ocean]

This obviously is not an entry level position

[fallow tusk]

Its a python developer job maybe i can just send my resume?

[graceful mason]

Yeah, but it's not a great look if you don't have something to show on GitHub (at least if you're still early in your career)

[fallow tusk]

I have 2 projects on my github i hope its enough for me to land my first job

[balmy mural]

I got my first job with just 2 projects on my CV. It's just something you can talk about in an interview when it comes up, people aren't likely to inspect your projects in great detail. Just make sure your projects have good readme's outlining what the project is

[wheat cedar]

I've always been curious, how do I know whether my projects are worthy talking about them? Like if it's a big piece of software that abides all the enterprise standards, but has less than no use in the real world, is it an appropriate project to show in that case? If it is a 50 lines of code tool that was written in a sleepless fever night, but I use it daily?

[white relic]

Like, on your resume?

[wheat cedar]

yes

[balmy mural]

For both my projects in interviews, it was the interviewers who brought up the project. You can put any project on your CV where you're able to talk about technical details of the project or how that project influenced some other aspect of a job or something you do imo

[white relic]

Anything you're proud of is worth talking about IMO

Also, any project you have a story about how you learned something from it. Which would ideally be every project you've done.

[balmy mural]

Good things to prep for talking about your project is issues you had, how you approached and solved it, why you chose specific tech stacks over others, if you have any other future plans for the project, anything interesting that you learned while working on the project, etc.

[wheat cedar]

Well I've never did anything I'm proud of so I'm reconsidering my life choices now... I wrote a good project for my junior specialist thesis. But I'm not proud of it in any way as it is terrible and buggy. I think I could show that...

[white relic]

Doesn't have to be technical. If you had a personal conflict with a teammate and resolved it, or if you had a conflict and didn't resolve it and the project failed, you still learned something you can tell a story about.

[wheat cedar]

I don't think I could relate to that as I have no experience working in a team.

[white relic]

So, could you say you learned something about how not to write certain kinds of code? Or maybe you learned the value of unit testing, or how to use a debugger

[balmy mural]

You likely won't demo your project. You can still talk about the project as a whole without saying it's terrible and buggy. You want to focus on the positives of the project

[wheat cedar]

So, when they state in the vacancy description that they'd like to see my projects, what they mean is that they want to see what experience I've had implementing them, not what they are exactly?

[white relic]

What kind of job are you applying to?

[wheat cedar]

I'm not applying yet, I was just browsing options the other day, for Software Developer. And pretty much everywhere they say something like "You need to have at least 3 projects that you've worked on" or something like that.

Not stating that these project must've came from commercial experience

[white relic]

[wheat cedar]

Considering what have been said before in this channel, this started sounding like a BS to me. But maybe they mean something else.

[white relic]

I've never applied to a job that required actually sharing previous projects. I have them on my resume and I talk about them. But I don't have them on github (at least not publicly) and I have never had anyone ask for code.

[wheat cedar]

Oh, so you can put stuff on resume and not actually show it?

[white relic]

that's pretty much normal

[wheat cedar]

Well, honestly, I've never ever had job interviews, but isn't that just illogical? Like, if you can somehow invent a story about an imaginary project and basically like, wouldn't that be an easy way to fool your future employer?

[white relic]

speaking as someone on the other side, absolutely nobody is going to review your code before they have even talked to you

[wheat cedar]

I'm not considering doing something like that in any way, but if I just talk about my "projects" and not show them, that'd be fine?

[white relic]

I've asked someone for a github link before but it was because he had a weak educational background and I was looking for evidence to support hiring him in spite of that

[wheat cedar]

Well reading those job descriptions gave me a lot of anxiety, like, I need to actually make something Big and Important, so I can apply for my intern position, this conversation relaxed me a little bit.

[white relic]

Admittedly I'm not really a software developer, maybe someone else can fill in the gaps here

[wheat cedar]

So, whenever I spend my time coding, I just call it a "project", document my experience and whenever I'm asked about my "projects" on the interview I mention that? Not trying to put words into your mouth, just my interpretation.

[white relic]

Anything you've done is fair game to put on a resume. It is your resume.
Probably you don't want to put all your unfinished & failed projects on there, but yeah, anything you have actually done is fair game.

If it looks good and gets you an interview, the interviewer(s) will have an opportunity to ask you about it, and may request you provide some code, but you don't need to provide code for everything on there, no

[wheat cedar]

I understand now. Well what I've questioned initially, what stuff do they care about at all? Is it all about any experience at all or some concrete stuff?

[white relic]

People who have professional experience can't usually provide code or demo their best projects anyway (due to NDAs etc.)

I don't really know how to answer that. The point of projects is to show you have the skills and/or attitude they're looking for. If they like your resume, they'll probably cross examine you about the stuff on it including projects

[pine sleet]

Generally how important is projects for the overall hiring process?

I have a few and am working on a bunch more - so depending on how important they are I can put more/less effort into them

[summer roost]

less important than work experience and education experience, about on par with the list of skills that you have

[pine sleet]

Gotcha.
Though currently I have neither work experience nor education experience 😛

[peak halo]

entry-level is a subset of low-level. if a job requires experience beyond what you can obtain as a student (and I'm including internships in that), then it isn't entry level. but this is describing an ideal candidate.

[delicate bane]

quality > quantity in most cases

[delicate bane]

soooo i tested notion ai's job description feature

and my input was "data engineer with aws experience"...

anyway thats all python fam. merry xmas if you celebrate it

[vapid jay]

Do you think i could use this in a portfolio for any type of programming job

idk cuz its pretty normal

[smoky quest]

What skills does it demonstrate for the roles you plan to apply to?

[errant star]

Do you think software engineering is a stressful life ( reply with @ I’m interested in responses)

[crude moon]

@errant star No, it really is not stressful, it is a very easy life relatively to most other jobs in my opinion. Especially if you enjoy it, and if you enjoy it you are more likely to become good at it and have a choice of many places to work, countries, option to be remote, work with smart people..

[balmy spade]

I think it is really going to depend on how you define stressful here. Life is stressful in general. From personal experience, I've worked for a few decades in retail and half a decade in technology. The most chaotic and stressful day I've experienced in technology can't hold a candle to the most stressful day in retail.

Yet, there is a different type of stress that I find harder to define. My work is far less tangible in software engineering than it was in retail. I find myself pushing hard to "be productive" without a clear understanding of how to measure that success. That's a new stress that I haven't dealt with prior. There's also the interesting twist that in retail I might cost a store a sale, or a few thousands of dollars with a mistake. In my role as a software engineer a mistake can cost the company a few hundred to a few million dollars faster than I can react.

The work is amazing though. I love the challenge, the actual work, and the endless supply of problems to solve. I feel more relaxed, in general. It's not been without effort but I feel the effort has been completely worth it.

[summer roost]

I think it depends on what you find stressful. Some people find it very stressful to be given open ended problems that they aren't sure how to solve, and that's part of the job for a software engineer. Some people find it stressful to need to self-teach new skills. Or to work with others as part of a team.

But the pay tends to be well above average, so at least you likely won't have stress from money to deal with. It may even be enough money to allow for a stay-at-home partner, which can eliminate a lot of child care stress. And on your worst day you might cost a company millions of dollars, but it's pretty unlikely that you'll get anyone physically hurt or killed, outside of a few niche industries.

[errant star]

Another question is do Software Development take away from your personal time?

[deft summit]

I want best python course from beginning to advance

[vapid jay]

I want to geta job

[pulsar drum]

I've had great work life balance. I don't feel pressured to work long hours or even think about work after I "clock out". I suppose if you have to be on call then that can take away from personal time.

[errant star]

Mind if I dm you a few questions?

[pulsar drum]

I'd rather you just ask here.

It lets others pitch in their answers and lets others benefit from the discussion

[errant star]

Alright,

As of now, I am still in my junior year of high school and trying to prepare my self for college as a Computer Science major by teaching myself how to use python, and as well I am taking a cybersecurity college class. Do you think I am preparing myself in a good way, or am I wasting some time and can be working on other things?

[spark cobalt]

Used to work in restaurant industry, and software engineering is significantly less stressful. Flexible work hours, with the primary focus being whether you can get the job done or not is really nice (and also the primary source of stress for me.)

[gusty dome]

also what are some good summer programs for high schoolers?

[errant star]

What if you think you cannot get the task done? Are you given a penalty?

[spark cobalt]

Unless you're already solid on your choice of doing cybersecurity, I would focus on getting very generalized knowledge and try to explore the field before sticking to a single thing. This way, when you go into college, you have a focus as a CS program, you know what you're trying to build, etc.

[spark cobalt]

If you consistently can't get the job done, it shows you're not qualified to be in the position in the first place. Which, after multiple rounds of interviews, if you land the job typically you meet the standards.

[errant star]

The current classes consist of Computer science classes such as CS110, CS220, and CS240, and I believe 230 as well.

[spark cobalt]

Do they count for college credit? I don't know what those numbers represent at all.

[errant star]

Yes.

[spark cobalt]

Well you effectively save an entire semester to pursue whatever else you want. If you're passionate about another field in science or something, having a psychology background for example can give you a serious advantage in working as a software engineer in that sector.

Up to you. Or you can graduate early.

[errant star]

Hmmmm? Graduating early sounds nice.

[spark cobalt]

It's not that uncommon to see people graduating in under 4 years.

[errant star]

Also when I graduate High school the CS classes give me a Cyber Security certificate.

[spark cobalt]

Might not even land on your resume tbh. Certificates generally carry almost no weight in the field.

[pulsar drum]

The degree path is designed for a complete beginner. Any preparation you do before starting university is good, but not strictly necessary. I would suggest you look at the courses you'd be taking in your first year or semester, and focus on those. It doesn't have to be in depth, but getting a feel for them will be helpful. Those are the "make it or break it courses" I think, even though in the grand scheme of things they're quite basic. Getting into the programming mindset can be a big hurdle for some.

[errant star]

I appreciate it; I feel like I am cramming early, but I want to try to live a stress-free, happy life. So whatever preparation I can do to get there, I'll do it.

[spark cobalt]

I would get a headstart on projects. They'll carry a lot of weight for applying to internships and put you ahead of your peers (that being like hundreds of thousands of students applying for internships as well)

If you're solid on cybersecurity, or whichever field you're solidified in working in, then try see if you can build projects surrounding that using technologies widely used in that field

Having good quality, well in depth projects take a lot of time. Typically time that college students don't have to make multiple outstanding projects in their first/second year of college.

[pulsar drum]

Depends on the company culture but also your position. If you're a junior and you don't get a task done in the expected time, then it could be due to more systemic issues (expectations too high, assigned a task too difficult for a junior, not enough support from the team, etc). Ideally the focus should be on systemic issues than on the individual.

[spark cobalt]

Typically people that lie in their resume get into that position. Or give companies like an extremely innaccurate portrayal of themselves within interviews etc.

Just don't do that and you're fine.

[errant star]

Ok, I appreciate you guys for the help its 3 am so ima head to bed now! Have a great rest of your night!

[errant star]

Ill make sure not to.

[spark cobalt]

Companies will generally know what to do with you. Can have a little trust in them 🙂

[pulsar drum]

Iirc CS has a relatively high drop out rate and a good portion of that tends to happen within the first year. So explore CS (there's more to it than just coding) to give yourself a better idea of whether you'll be able to stick with it and if it's what you really want to do. Worth leaving doors open for other careers that interest you. You still have time to decide.

Also, don't stress yourself out too much. Be sure to still make time for yourself and enjoy not being an adult

[vapid jay]

guys i know this sounds a bit weird but i want to know what a junior python developer does like on day to day bases! cause i learned python and i know how to use it but on basic levels

[ivory valve]

guys

i have 3 years of experience in selenium. what else i need to learn to become test automation engineer??

[brave matrix]

other skills like; SQL, cloud, bash and so on

[ivory valve]

and

which test library? pytest etc

[spark cobalt]

Depends on what Python is being used for. To build APIs? For testing? For AI/ML?

[brave matrix]

Im curios why do you want to be a "test automation engineer"?

[spark cobalt]

Cuz they're cool

[near ocean]

A concern I've seen regarding automated test engineering is that it would be harder for them to switch to "feature dev" in the future.
Not sure how valid this concern is but mentioning it just in case

[ivory valve]

1. i see jobs on freelance platform.
2. i already have experience in web automation libraries.

[spark cobalt]

Oh wow people hiring freelancers know about test automation? That's impressive.

I always assumed lot of freelance world is just people asking to build a webapp or something.

Congrats! Hope it goes great for you!

[brave matrix]

tbh I dont know much about test-automation as a job.
there is alot of work like that in platforms like Fiverr and Upwork, but its not as common in the corporate world (at least from what I see on LinkedIn)

[spark cobalt]

It's probably tied into DevOps if you're looking in LinkedIn.

[brave matrix]

it seems like its a very niche job, and if you are a big company and want to automate the tests you will just ask a regular web developer, there is no need for someone that does that specifically since everybody already does tests and Selenium isnt that difficult

[brisk anvil]

devoops

[brave matrix]

yea probably

[brave matrix]

now do "test automation engineer"

[spark cobalt]

That's a lot of DevOps jobs. Another 317k for Software Developer.

[spark cobalt]

That is DevOps. Test Engineer is more accurate (332k results). Writing tests in code is already automating manual testing in some way. Fully automizing tests in a CICD pipeline is pretty much standard DevOps role.

But yeah DevOps, or test engineer or whatever you call it, definitely not a niche role.

[spark cobalt]

Bigger company has more reason for the tests to be written by testers, and feature developers can just focus on adding features. You can also expect bigger companies to be doing test driven development, which is even more reason for someone to do tests that is in the talks with other aspects of this project (marketing, clients, etc.)

[brave matrix]

hmm interesting... I really dont know much about this stuff 😅

[spark cobalt]

Division of labor is OP, that is if a company can afford it.

[brave matrix]

and if they want to invest in it...

[spark cobalt]

Testing is a very very good investment.

[brave matrix]

so what would you advise OP to study?

[spark cobalt]

I don't work in DevOps. But I guess study the different components of CICD, get comfortable with things like Docker, Jenkins and whatnot. Can probably find more stuff in the DevOps Discord server: https://discord.gg/devops-sre-infrastructure-419745677585940482

Why is the vanity URL longer than a random URL

[coarse forge]

Why'd they put the ID in there 😭

[eternal obsidian]

Hi guys, how can i make some money using my skills in python? Are there any websites or something else which you know and recommend?

[coarse forge]

People tend to jump to fiverr and upwork but from experience it takes a LOT of work to even get yourself noticed on there anymore

It's unbelievably saturated nowadays

[ivory valve]

rate my resume out of 10

[coarse forge]

Have you just doxxed yourself lol

[ivory valve]

woops. bad resolution

now it is readable

[eternal obsidian]

okay, thx! do you know better idea?

[desert fjord]

Best way to learn python?

[delicate bane]

youre saying they could get pigeon-holed to a testing role rather than being allowed to switch?

[near ocean]

Yes, i've seen people be worried that starting as test eng and working in it for a couple of years makes it very hard to switch

[smoky quest]

It does happen (the being stuck part)

[near ocean]

The main worry was not having any "design" experience or being part of the full development cycle

[smoky quest]

yeah. Writing tests is seen as a subset/simpler task than actually developing the product

[delicate bane]

i think ive seen that as well, so it is a legitimate concern.

[wet oxide]

Hi guys do you know any competitions where I can earn worldwide certification?

[smoky quest]

Hi!
CS degrees would fit the bill. Other than that, there are no certification recognized worldwide

[true harness]

competitions? wdym by "worldwide certification"

[frail pulsar]

Hey

So ugh , chatgpt and these stuff are scaring me . Will a programmers job be taken in the future?

If so , what will be available to work if everything literally will be done by AI's.

There are 2 scenarios:

The good ending: AI's are made to do all labour and the product is distributed equally on citizens

The bad ending: AI's will take the jobs and only rich people (business men) will be rich and all of us will live in poverty as peasants and farmers (if the ai doesn't take this as well)

Bruhhhh. What was ur job ? Did u find a new one

[frail pulsar]

Note: it is most likely that the bad ending is what's gonna happen

[frail pulsar]

Actually after I have thought about it, both are bad endings. The first scenario would just make us like the obese people in Wall-E

[balmy mural]

ChatGTP is going to be a tool developers can use. It won't be taking developer jobs anytime soon

[frail pulsar]

I read people on quora saying that. I think it's a big cope.

"It's just a tool" literally means that it won't do by itself , u just tell it what it has to do.

So basically take our job. Instead of Rich people hiring us to write code , they will just tell AI to do it. Sure maybe rn they aren't that smart , but I bet in the next few decades they will be that smart

[balmy spade]

Can the AI understand the problem yet?

[balmy mural]

It's similar to copilot. It's a tool developers can use to speed up some of the mundane coding tasks. It can't formulate business problems into code

I'm about as worried about AI replacing my job as a dentist would be about electric toothbrushes replacing their job.

• godlygeek, 2022

[frail pulsar]

Not now, but with the rate AI is getting smarter , it could soon

[balmy mural]

There were people using it for Advent of Code. After the easy problems from the first days, it couldn't even really get close to a solution afaik

[balmy spade]

Now that sounds like a big cope to me. I've been hearing "it could soon" for 50 years.

[frail pulsar]

Yea but that's now. Sure now we need programmers . I mean in the future , when it's close to humans in smartness. It could then solve harder problems

[frail pulsar]

I really hope you are right

[balmy mural]

As Preocts says, People have been saying that that'll happen for the past 50 years, and it still hasn't happened

[frail pulsar]

I want to work in that field but everyday I am scared more of the risk

I hate biology

What was your job tho I am curious

[balmy spade]

Even if I'm wrong; look at it objectively. The cotton gin did not replace farming. The book did not replace story telling. The radio did not replace the newspaper. The tv didn't replace the radio. E-mail didn't replace physical mail. The self-scan checkout didn't replace retail workers. Automated sorting didn't replace warehouse workers. It goes on and on.

Our world changes. Yes. Tools don't "replace" us.

[frail pulsar]

It might not be replacing it but it might be reducing the need for them

bruh how could AI replace that 🥲😭😭😭

[balmy spade]

Until AI can conceptualize the problem; it is a tool. When it can conceptualize the problem; we'll have other things to worry about other than what jobs it will do.

[frail pulsar]

It might not conceptualise it , but it might reach a level where it seems it does

[balmy spade]

Corporations do that without tools already. If you are worried about that, which is a legit concern, then master your craft and improve yourself. You are what you control. Be the best you that you can be.

[gilded valley]

@frail pulsar ring ring is lying

[balmy spade]

No, it must conceptualize it to "replace" the input device (a person).

[frail pulsar]

So , maybe a programmers job will just be thinking(it already is now , but it might be pure thinking later , no need for actual code from the human side)

[balmy spade]

Are you suggesting that the possible evolution of this is that, as a programmer, one will need to conceptualize a problem, discover all the edge cases, solve for a required solution, and then understand how to feed that into an AI to product the correct results? Possibly testing those results prior to releasing the solution?

[frail pulsar]

Yes

[balmy spade]

Sounds like programming to me.

[frail pulsar]

True, it's why I said between brackets that it is what programming is now. It's just that in the future no language will be needed to be learnt

A programming language is the least important thing in programming nowadays anyways so yeah won't make a difference

[balmy spade]

and then understand how to feed that into an AI to product the correct results
That's language.

[frail pulsar]

Hmm you are right

[delicate bane]

you shouldnt lie to others who come here seeking advice

[frail pulsar]

Programmer makes less than 5k (per year) usd here in my country 💀

10k*

[balmy spade]

Now, to your other point; you are correct. Tools will change our working world. Companies will use them as excuses to cut down on staff (though they don't need these excuses but I will not rant). This happened yesterday, today, and will happen tomorrow. It's the nature of our current world.

My advice is to not fear the tools. Certainly don't give the tools power they don't have. Understand the change and flow with it.

[frail pulsar]

I am from middle east (Egypt)

[delicate bane]

agreed. the changelog guys even said having tools like chatgpt is like each person having their own junior dev. you might not have to write as much code as before but youll have to probably do more "code review".

[frail pulsar]

We should probably just be constantly learning all the new tools that come

[frail pulsar]

Well , that's what's happening right now. Learning new languages. I guess nothing changes.

Eh let them work in their country and I'll work in mine. Stuff are expensive there but they are cheaper here so yeah.

[balmy spade]

I use co-pilot on the daily. I was really squicked out by it at first. The more I use it with the frame of mind that it is a tool in a toolbox the more I understand the value. I stop focusing on how it might replace me and start focusing on how to use it better. When to turn it off, what to look for when it suggests things, and even what common mistakes it always makes.

I'd say co-pilot has cut my time writing unit tests down by at least 25% now. Good tool.

[frail pulsar]

Yea you saying to view it as a tool actually makes sense now.

[gilded valley]

Accounting changed massively when spreadsheets became a thing. They meant that every individual could carry out vastly more work in the same time, this lead to a huge reduction in the amount of accounting clerks etc that were needed.

There's no reason this same thing couldn't happen with Software Developers.

But this conversation really seems barely related to personal careers, and better suited to offtopic

[balmy spade]

Literally part of the job requirements where I work. I forget how it's worded but, yes, just keep learning the new things popping up each day.

[delicate bane]

+1 on copilot. my mentor recommended this link to me too to understand "under the hood" parts of copilot: https://thakkarparth007.github.io/copilot-explorer/posts/copilot-internals.html

i think it helps to understand the limits of the tool

[gilded valley]

At some point the productivity per developer will reach a point where the marginal cost of hiring a developer is greater than the marginal benefit. If productivity keeps increasing, it follows that firing some developers is a good idea

[delicate bane]

i think the devs that dont learn to adapt vs. the ones that do will be the ones in trouble

[gilded valley]

That's true on a personal level, but doesn't change the aggregate equation

[balmy spade]

We actually have a bit of fun spotting the "you tab completed this block didn't you?" :3

[loud pagoda]

Can somebody provide me some tips on how to keep myself motivated as a coder? Sometimes when I get up, I just watch movies and become unmotivated to code since I'm worried about the future.

[gilded valley]

See a therapist?

[frail pulsar]

Go to Jim 💪

[loud pagoda]

do I look like I have a money to buy a therapist -.-

[delicate bane]

right, agreed.

it might even increase overall

[gilded valley]

On an even more personal note, the people who hate copilot on principle are incredibly tedious to talk to

[loud pagoda]

I'm finished, but a few days later, my body feels numb.

When it gets noisy in my home, which is shared by my family of eight, including myself, distraction becomes the major issue. As a result, I stopped trying to code because of responsibility.

[balmy spade]

General advice, used daily in my career: Exercise regularly. Eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Adopt a work-cycle that includes breaks (re: Pomodoro styles). Measure success against where you were yesterday. Don't measure success against someone else.

[loud pagoda]

I must develop a coding addiction! I've been drinking coffee frequently, but it doesn't seem to help, and when I tried going without it, I stumbled.

perhaps sounds like a family problems?

HMMM 🤔

you think like coding tutorial for 12 hours would help 😂

[frail pulsar]

Wear sound cancelling headphones?

[loud pagoda]

I'm poor I have no privileges to buy anything outside or online

[frail pulsar]

Can u atleast go outside to somewhere calm and code?

[loud pagoda]

Actually, because that is how I learnt to code, I try to learn from them and follow their lead.

[frail pulsar]

Or atleast just solve maths problems if u can't take the device with u

[loud pagoda]

Philippines !!!!!!!!

[loud pagoda]

I guess I might as well do that because I haven't left the house in at least a year except to carry groceries to my mom and visit Jim!

freshman 🙂

yepp

It's the twelfth-largest nation, but I think 12 isn't enough.

The schedule is quite perplexing because we use utilize both Java and Python at the same time every day.

[frail pulsar]

The language shouldn't be a problem

You can always Google. Just learn maths.

[loud pagoda]

math-
I mean I'm decent at math. I only know polynomials and mathematics

[true harness]

what does knowing mathematics mean in the context of math

[loud pagoda]

very good at operator but bad at greater than 😆

[frail pulsar]

if you are just decent at maths then learn math

[loud pagoda]

ah yes, math! my favorite of subject (totally not sarcastic)

But really, I might give it a try because it incorporates some other math, like the bubble sorting algorithm.

ah yes so if i remember correctly a bubble sort is a method of sorting numerical values by swapping their neighbors an an adjacent list or matrix, so for each run it will move down the list and swap each neighboring value if it’s right value is smaller than the left if not it will ignore it; so in a list of
3, 6, 7, 1
it will go 3, 6, 1, 7
3, 1, 6, 7
1, 3, 6, 7
after 3 passes
or perhaps 4 counting the verification of no incorrect listings

wait wait, we're talking about career which is leading me to math okay, just sharing my knowledge 😆

but for your ring, how do you improve your logical brain?

ouuhh got it

I need that, though! If it makes you stupid, I'll look for alternatives.

[vapid jay]

this is just crazy innit

[dense mesa]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel: #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[finite solar]

Hey

can someone send me the download link for atom?

[high coral]

heya! best websites to find computer science internships for college students?

[brave matrix]

LinkedIn maybe?

[balmy latch]

Is anyone from Germany in here?

Or anyone who doesn’t have a CS background?

[pulsar drum]

Better to just ask your question instead of waiting for specific people to show up first.

[peak halo]

@balmy latch it's not likely that any Germans or non-CS people will commit to answering your question before you reveal what it is. So, just ask.

[pearl nest]

Does anyone know places to get certificates for python? I already know a lot of python I just don't have any certificates.

[peak halo]

You probably shouldn't get one. A certificate won't be enough to get you a job if you don't already have relevant career experience or a STEM degree.

[pearl nest]

Not for a job but for college.

[peak halo]

what country are you in? the US?

[pearl nest]

yes the US

[peak halo]

then you should focus on doing well in high school and in math courses especially. try to take calculus before you graduate.

[pearl nest]

doesnt certificates help you with getting into college, thats what i heard

[delicate bane]

where did you hear this? i have heard of no such thing.

[peak halo]

I have never heard this, and I spent a lot of time hanging around the admissions counselors for my CS department

[pearl nest]

to put in your resume for college, or to prove that you actually learnt a lot of python

[balmy latch]

I was just asking if someone took a job without a CS background and if it really worked out. I am interested in data analytics and I want to know how it’s possible to make it and get a job

[delicate bane]

yes it is possible, just harder. do you have a previous background in a different industry and/or a college degree in a different area?

[peak halo]

if you're applying to a CS program, they expect to teach you how to program from the ground up. and they might not even care about Python specifically. Your time would be better spent studying for the courses you're currently taking, and enjoying being a teen.

[pearl nest]

oh ok, also one more question does accelerating in science matter for going into college, engineering or CS

[balmy latch]

Bachelor in biology, master in medical biotechnology. A week ago a just got a certificate doing a Python intermediate course

[delicate bane]

if i were you, i would focus on getting a few projects up for your resume and you can aim for a data analyst role in the biological/biotech/life sciences industry or similar industries since that would leverage your previous background. check out alex the analyst for more.

[peak halo]

CS programs are typically part of a university's engineering school or their math department. and both of those are going to see your math grades as the strongest indicator of success in their program.

it reflects poorly on the university when students fail out or drop out of their programs, so you'll be admitted in large part based on how likely they think you are to succeed. and even an A in a history course is a stronger indicator of academic competence than a certificate that they've never heard of.

[pearl nest]

so your basically saying there is not much you can do outside of school to increase your chance for a CS program in a university?

[peak halo]

if you can do STEM-related extracurriculars, that would help.

(and you might be thinking "but isn't getting a certificate a STEM-related extracurricular?", but certificates are intended for professional development. not academic.)

(and the notion that they're overrated for professional development is a whole separate issue.)

[pearl nest]

but how would college know what those are, like the company we use to learn it from, how would they know that that place actually taught u it correctly and you learnt what was suposed to be taught?

[peak halo]

know what what are? extracurriculars?

[silver wren]

what kind of extracurriculars

[pearl nest]

like for example if i learn python as a extracirrcular then how would they know i learnt everything

[peak halo]

idk tbh. my first major wasn't in STEM, so my high school extracurricular portfolio was not what a CS admissions counselor would have expected to see.

[peak halo]

you wouldn't have just "python" as an extracurricular. something like a programming club.

[delicate bane]

or if your high school has a robotics club or something

[silver wren]

what is usaco

[pearl nest]

ya rn im learning python outside of school and as well as holding a programming club in school

[silver wren]

how could someone participate in it

k thanks

[summer roost]

I wouldn't even be sure that STEM extracurriculars would win you any more points with admissions officers than any other extracurricular would, honestly.

I'd be willing to bet that USACO and Debate Club would get about equal weight.

I think it'd be about equal

both of them are only useful insofar as they illustrate to the admissions office that you are a driven and motivated individual.

[pearl nest]

exactly because some extracurriculars show that you are good at a subject for example debate club doesnt show that you know how to solve problems using CS

[summer roost]

sure - but being able to solve problems using CS isn't a qualification for getting into a CS program. I don't think it's even helpful for getting into a CS program.

[pearl nest]

but wont STEM related extracurrculars show you are driven and hard working as well as teach you things you need to know?

[summer roost]

no.

[peak halo]

they already expect to teach you the things you need to know

[summer roost]

they're not things that you need to know, because not everyone in the class will have had those same extracurriculars, so the school's curriculum needs to teach you those things anyway

so learning them on your own just means that you'll be wasting money to have someone else re-teach them to you later.

[pearl nest]

then what is something i can do to stand out to get into CS program

[summer roost]

good grades in STEM classes, and some extracurriculars.

[peak halo]

I would actually recommend that you create a shortlist of CS programs that you might want to attend, and ask their admissions counselors yourself.

[pearl nest]

ok thanks

[silver wren]

Is their a tryouts for usaco or can anyone do it

[summer roost]

All I can say is that I'm quite skeptical that that's true

[pearl nest]

also would Math olympiad or Science olympiad be better for joining into a CS program, rn i am in science olympiad but just asking

no just Science olympiad team for school

[summer roost]

I'd assume they're about equal.

[balmy mural]

I did a lot of mathematic olympiads at school and I don't consider them as a factor for getting into uni at all. I also represented my country twice in international math olympiads. I think they probably meant a bit more, but still less important than just my overall grades

I didn't do usamo. I have no idea what that is

[vapid jay]

Hello Everyone, I am a new member to the group. I am currently enrolled in Coursera's Python for Everybody group. I am having quite the humbling experience. I thought, "oh coding will be a breeze." It took me over an hour trying to figure out how to search files through Python. Needless to say, I am excited to learn a lot. My goal is to become proficient in 2-3 coding languages so I am able to apply for some software development jobs. My passion is traveling and having a flexible job that allows me to work from home will help with that. Anyone else using remote flexibility for this reason?

[pastel quail]

science olympiad is more team based, more opportunities for leadership, etc, which is more appealing to colleges. but if you think you can do really well in math olympiad then you should go for that since it’s more prestigious and known for being super competitive

[pearl nest]

oh ok

[pastel quail]

in general, colleges are looking more for motivated people with leadership skills and a big/positive impact on their community, rather than someone who is just good at the major they’re applying for. especially because most people switch their major and career goals during college.

[high coral]

US

[vapid jay]

Do you think these would be a good look for a basic portfolio for a backend api job

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/470889390588035082/1056801132200067072/image.png?width=502&height=445

[near ocean]

What is this? So far its just some nice looking TUI, not very backend relevant

[vapid jay]

web scraping is majorly parsing, which is used a lot in backend for passing around information

then theres encryption which I use for api security and transfering data through databases and checks and ect

[gilded valley]

It's perfectly fine as a project, what really matters is how well you talk about it in interviews - about decisions made and the justifications thereof

[vapid jay]

alright I mean it doesnt really matter right now I just wanna build up projects from a young age cuz im 13

Then I can show the progress ive made ig or wtv

[vapid jay]

Good for you man. Wish I could get my little brother to start early too. I am trying to lead by example now but I have zero results for him.

[hearty island]

should i write a two week notice for when i switch internships?

[spark cobalt]

Doesn't your internship have a predefined ending date?

You can remind HR if you wanna be considerate.

[hearty island]

it might get extended beyond the next internship

i'm just asking because it's not a job, it's just an internship so idk if a 2 week notice is necessary

[summer roost]

I don't think I understand the question: are you quitting?

[hearty island]

yes, so i can swap to my summer internship which starts may 22, but if my current one gets extended past may 22 i was thinking of drafting a two week notice

[summer roost]

what does "extending" an internship mean?

[hearty island]

like make me another offer

[summer roost]

why wouldn't you just say "no"?

[hearty island]

bc then i won't get paid till may 😦

[summer roost]

I still don't understand - when is your current internship supposed to end?

[hearty island]

jan 13, 2023

[summer roost]

OK, and you anticipate them making another offer - what dates are you anticipating the next offer having?

[hearty island]

i'm expecting it to be another 6 months from january 13 2023 so july 13, 2023... at least that's what i think they'll offer

[summer roost]

That sounds very strange - how does this mesh with your school schedule?

[hearty island]

i worked 18 hours per week during the first semester, now 24, and then i'll be working 16 hours this semester

[summer roost]

interesting. Well, I have to imagine they wouldn't be too fond of someone quitting an internship early. I'd see if you could ask them for a 3 month instead of 6 month internship for the extension.

[hearty island]

what do i say if they ask why?

[young tulip]

hello

can i ask a question about a few stuff(not coding based )

about life

[summer roost]

I'm not sure. I probably wouldn't tell them that you have another internship lined up. The reason - or at least, one major reason - why they hire interns is to try to train people up on their technologies, making it more likely that those interns will come back to them for a full time entry level job later on. If you make it clear to them that you're preferring another company over them, they may well just decide not to extend your internship at all. I'd probably just leave it by saying that due to personal reasons you won't be available beginning on X date

[hearty island]

got it

[pearl nest]

what are some good projects to make when younger that will show your coding knowledge to others

[young tulip]

i just started to code and taking a few py lessons in yt

any recomendation for an absolute noob without any pre requisite knowledge

[summer roost]

Do a bunch of practice projects. And read some books - Automate the Boring Stuff with Python is available free online, and so is A Byte of Python. Both are good books.

[young tulip]

should i read the book first or read the book along with doing practise

[true harness]

the latter

[young tulip]

and is there any tips and tricks (not shortcut/cutting corners) to be a good software engineer/

[balmy spade]

Does "never stop learning" and "always keep doing things you know you cannot do" count as tips? I'm not sure they do.

[young tulip]

thanks for the tips friend

[balmy spade]

Software engineering is a bit of a few different skillsets. You'll want to read and practice your communication skills. Problem solving is the heart of the role most times so always work on your ability to face the unknown with a level head. Programming is a fun mess of syntax, application, patterns, tools, and probably a dozen other things. You won't ever run out of new things to try there.
Other skills for the role; time management, document writing (communication), scope control, project planning....

Oh! Change. Things change. It's the only constant. Learn to be comfortable with all types of change.

[young tulip]

ive been told my communication is quite good and people generally have less hard time working with me and my university group project team also mentioned im quite good at communicating and people enjoy the time working with my however time management is my achilles heel

now am watching a tutoral video for python

[balmy spade]

I'd say something about time management but I'm really poor at it myself. :3

[summer roost]

you're already in uni, then, but just learning to code? What's your major? When do you graduate? What are your career goals?

[balmy spade]

I'm writing my own little tool to help me track what I do in a day. Hopefully I can use it to look back and find improvements.

[young tulip]

am first year university student my 1st semester in year 1 just got over. I graduated HS in 2022 and i dint take computer science in any highschool term as it was not needed as main subject

my career goal is to be a software engineer/web devolepment or sumn else still in a dilemmea

[summer roost]

what's your major?

[young tulip]

Bachelors of Science in ENGINEERING planning to opt for software engineering in year 2

am i too late to start?

pls be brutally honest thank you

[balmy mural]

No. Classes at university assume you don't know what to do yet and there should be a big overlap between engineering and software engineering classes. There are some regulars in this channel who didn't start until their 30s

[young tulip]

ty for the motivational boost brother

[summer roost]

Sounds like you know what you want, and that's the first step to success.

and anyway, first year of uni is the perfect time to decide on your career goals.

[spark cobalt]

Embrace being uncomfortable.

If you're building something and it's going way too smooth. That generally indicates that you're ready to build something much bigger/more complex or you're in some tutorial hell loop.

[young tulip]

trying my best to not get stuck in tutorial hell

[silver wren]

would colleges like a programming portfolio if I am applying to one for CS

[summer roost]

I've never heard of a college caring whether you can code before admitting you to a CS program. They care much more about extracurricular activities, hobbies, volunteering, etc

[silver wren]

Ok thanks

[brittle thorn]

This is good life advice regardless of domain...get out of your comfort zone and learn

[silver wren]

In your opinion would you think it is worth it to make a programming portfolio for college or should I focus more on extracurricular etc.

[summer roost]

I think programming as a hobby is good, building some skills, figuring out what sorts of coding you do and don't enjoy, etc. But I think that colleges are much more likely to be interested in extracurriculars than in a programming portfolio, when it comes to considering you for admission

[silver wren]

Ok thank you

[spare juniper]

Does anyone know any internships/things I can do as a senior in hs anytime from Feb->Aug(classes end then)
other than personal projects ofc
I have this part time job as an swe but it's a legacy codebase (which is pain) so I want to see if there are any other opportunities I could check out

[delicate bane]

best of luck. you should also try to do a few internships in college so you can see what you like / dont like if you can

[young tulip]

yea that is my short term plan

do internship in any place and gain the experiemce

i also seen a few youtube videos recomending to do intern ship to build a strong portfolio and that struck me so ill be doing internship or atleast try my level best to land an intern role

[inner wren]

Hey @karmic coral!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[vapid jay]

C:\Users\NO>pythonPython 3.9.5 (tags/v3.9.5:0a7dcbd, May 3 2021, 17:27:52) [MSC v.1928 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

pip
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'pip' is not defined

KeyboardInterrupt

fix? , i reinstalled py, did youtube tuts and more and still nothing works

[young tulip]

tried stack overflow/

[balmy spade]

You should ask in #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help .

[young tulip]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/60490745/getting-traceback-most-recent-call-last-file-stdin-line-1-in-module-n

[vapid jay]

ah, sorry

[spark cobalt]

You can try gun for a summer internship using your part time experience.

[vapid jay]

hi

[inner wren]

Parker-X v0.0.1

A very basic Module

[coarse forge]

By the order of peaky blinder 😭

[mint oracle]

By the order of Peaky Parker

[near ocean]

This is not careers related, please dont pollute the channel with offtopic chatter

[summer oxide]

hey guys got a question:
is creating discord bots a job?

[graceful mason]

probably not
maybe you'd end up needing to create a discord bot as a project for your company, but then you'd move on to something else
chances are nobody is going to hire you to be only a bot developer

[summer oxide]

rip I have to stop creating discord bots I guess

[graceful mason]

They can still be a nice project to stick on your CV if you put the work in

Creating a bot using discord interactions from scratch (i.e. not using discordpy) is a nice example of creating an API, and you can add in stuff like event/job queues and databases

Or you could go even more advanced and use websockets https://discord.com/developers/docs/topics/gateway

[vapid jay]

i want to find a career

so any advices?

[summer oxide]

what are websockets?
and I'm working like a kind-of freelancer, I make like discord projects and I get in return discord nitro

[vapid jay]

I want just to work brothers

[summer oxide]

freelancer?

[graceful mason]

Oh, well there are probably people that create bots on fiverr but I imagine it's pretty saturated and not many people pay for it
There's no reason to limit yourself to just making discord bots and only accepting discord nitro if you want to freelance

[vapid jay]

its doesn't work
i tried but no one hire me
😦

[summer oxide]

how can I prepare for my future? what must I experience in python

[graceful mason]

https://roadmap.sh/

[summer oxide]

by the way what if I work then for discord? does that work?

[brittle thorn]

Freelance favors experienced people...maybe get hired in regular job first or build portfolio

[white relic]

At Discord itself you probably wouldn't be employed to write bots, but they might appreciate that you have some experience with the platform

[summer oxide]

I must be honest I'm stupid,
I started creating discord bots at the begin when I didn't have any experience with python ;-;
after that I learned then the basics
I just copied and pasted a simple template for hello world discord bot , I went deeper into python and
I started using python

[vapid jay]

yes but how
i want to know how i get a job with coding
?????

[brittle thorn]

That depends look in job boards, do network etc... rejection maybe inevitable so stay strong do projects maybe to showcase your skills

[vapid jay]

hmmm but after getting experience and creating some projects how i can found a job
how i can found someone accept me
this is the problem
thank you

[brittle thorn]

That is a hard problem harder than coding since humans lmao

Specifically HR

[vapid jay]

hhhh yes this is the problem
i finish getting the experience now i will get a job
but the question is to who i will apply?

[brittle thorn]

That is subjective

Depends on your interests

[vapid jay]

if i want to get a temp job and easy until i get some experience
i am good at logo design and... do you know how to get a job in this topic

[brittle thorn]

So get hired as graphic designer maybe

Then branch out to web ui design/ frontend dev

[vapid jay]

in freelancers websites no one hire me
i have 4 months of trying and no one hire me

[brittle thorn]

Need a portfolio and reputation

[vapid jay]

yes i will do this
its a good idea

[brittle thorn]

Too much competition in those sites

[vapid jay]

i have experience in logo and i have a portfolio but the problem that there is some freelancers pay the website to be on the top of the project

[balmy mural]

The easiest way to getting a job in software engineering is through a relevant bachelours degree

[vapid jay]

so for this i want to find a job
not freelancing so i want to get a company to work with it but how to find a one

[brittle thorn]

Make a LinkedIn use it

[vapid jay]

is linkedln help
i have a account but i don't use it
what is do linkedin?

[brittle thorn]

Yeah if you can afford further education do take courses

[brittle thorn]

A professional social networking site

You ought to have one HR looks there

[balmy mural]

Certificates don't mean much

[vapid jay]

ahaaaa ok so i can use it to get a job
i will learn more about
have you a job also?

[vapid jay]

i do now
i take courses from meta in coursera
but i need to work to pay some courses to get professional certificate from meta

[brittle thorn]

Yeah true but college could be too expensive for some and some better than none...yes get a 4 year degree if you can

[vapid jay]

i learned python from meta course

[brittle thorn]

That's good at least

Not too valued in marketplace thou

[vapid jay]

yes but now i need to find a job in designing to pay some courses

[brittle thorn]

See that

[vapid jay]

so i will try linkedin

[brittle thorn]

Yes try it

[vapid jay]

but from meta maybe it can do something than others?

[brittle thorn]

I doubt

[vapid jay]

thank you for helping me

so what is you job?????
bro

[brittle thorn]

Software Dev

[vapid jay]

you work with a company?

[brittle thorn]

Did work with several

Did own startup..
If nobody will hire you start a business

[vapid jay]

where you find this companys
in linkedin or what

[brittle thorn]

Ah improve your English too

[vapid jay]

i study i can't start a real one

[balmy mural]

What is your current educational level?

[vapid jay]

yes i do

[tawdry tree]

yo where can i get help with discord.py here

[vapid jay]

i am in the high school

[brittle thorn]

Stay in school then

[vapid jay]

whhat??

[brittle thorn]

Why the rush to get a job

[balmy mural]

People won't be hiring high school students for software development positions. Temp jobs aren't really a thing in software dev and you can't work a full time job while going to school. Stay in school finish school

If you just want to make some pocket money, get a job as a waiter or something similar

[brittle thorn]

Or do art commissions maybe since you draw

At least that is creative and relevant long term

[vapid jay]

hmmmmmm this is a good idea
but working as a waiter i don't want to do this
maybe i will create a business website
??

[vapid jay]

yes i draw but i can do digital drawing sooo yes

[brittle thorn]

Do art commission then

[balmy mural]

Most startups fail, and they generally need more than your standard 9-5 workhours. So if you want to dedicate majority of your free time working on a startup you're passionate about, go for it. But it likely won't make money for quite a while

[brittle thorn]

At least that's part time and don't neglect school

[vapid jay]

is very hard and i need tools
i will see other way to create a business online or something like that
thanks at all

[brittle thorn]

Stay in school

[vapid jay]

yes sure
school is first thing
the business is a second thing

[brittle thorn]

Then good luck with both

[vapid jay]

thank you very much

do recruiters call your previous employer?

[brittle thorn]

It's case to case

Also avoid diploma mills

[white relic]

sometimes, usually to verify dates of employment / that you are a real person who exists and worked there

[brittle thorn]

I would favor everyone going to uni but I did myself but I hear so much about student debt

[vapid jay]

Thanks. Ive read the same online as well. So they dont go into a lot of detail.

[brittle thorn]

Chemistry but got into IT

It's possible to learn on the job

But you need that HR to give you a break

Yeet code lmao

Maybe but never did a yeetcode myself

I think a project or actual work experience maybe a better gauge that short term challenges

Then it's ok

Still an actual project maybe better

Yes

Or some github projects you done

Kinda more realistic thou

Nah months maybe

Near impossible to gauge someone in 24/ 48 hours

Fairly so

If it is then it's a toy problem

Well if they cheat eventually they will be underperforming then fired

Everything about getting a job is kinda annoying

So pick your poison

Or start a business lmao

Yes done a few

2 failed...working on 3 nao

Not yet