career-advice

[near ocean]

SE degree gives you the easiest path to a SE job but other degrees are also highly sought out

[buoyant seal]

Also degree gives just basics for everything. Makes good foundation, and teaches you to learn stuff. It is hard to go learning on your own, without at least initial kick

[near ocean]

Any STEM degree really gives you an advantage over no degree

[gritty rivet]

I would say even having a non-STEM degree is helpful when compared to no degree at all

[buoyant seal]

Well, if u have 3 years of experience and no degree, and all good skills, should it could be fine already
The problem is getting those 3 years of experience and learning all the relevant skills 😐 U need a really good foundation usually... to have such fit and luck.

[gritty crystal]

its just that some uni requires that u must have a passing grade on your mathematics, well i have not got a passing grade on my maths in high school 🥲

[gritty crystal]

ya i understand i might able to but it def take some time

[gritty crystal]

i feel like its a bad thing and im not of a maths person but im able to solve questions but just cant get a passing grade

[buoyant seal]

The problem is.. market is highly likely overflooded with people who try same way... so the chances for success are pretty not in favour. Because there is no clear advantage?
There needs to be some edge/advantage... helping you to achieve stuff like that.
Even among graduates of software engineering degree... rate of people becoming fully qualified specialists is not that super big.
For people without it becomes magnitude times lower chances

[real oyster]

I work in software (kind of) without a finished degree

[gritty crystal]

but u did study ur degree well why not complete it?

[real oyster]

I studied for a year, learnt a great deal (it was very valuable) and I’m deferring this year because I’m working two jobs

[gritty crystal]

but are u able to have alot of experience?

[real oyster]

I’m fortunate enough to be building out something where I’m learning & coding a great deal - the downside is I don’t have a mentor anymore so need to get one again to improve

[gritty crystal]

can i know where u from?

[gritty rivet]

Beware of survival bias here... Yes it is possible to have a good career as an SWE without a degree, but don't set yourself to play on hard mode if you don't need to

[real oyster]

UK

[dreamy shadow]

I'm sure some companies simply just toss all resumes without a degree.

[real oyster]

And +1 on what @gritty rivet said, my situation is not that regular

plus am working in an industry where a degree is less needed

[gritty crystal]

i see so i guess i should get a degree then

[modern crypt]

Yeah I’m not post graduate just started my degree this September

Yes please do that would be great!

I sent it to two jobs so far and both rejected it within a few days so I’m going to have to work on it a lot

[near ocean]

One page is fairly standard in the UK, dont worry about it that much, first job is pretty much a numbers game

[dreamy shadow]

Did another revision, translated most bullets to business impact. Looking to apply to Data Scientist roles at a larger company, which is a more senior role. (~2.5 YoE as DS at smaller scales) Lmk if anything can be improved on/phrased better.

[real oyster]

probably, if you wanna get recruited the traditional way

[mortal wedge]

Most

You have to understand, once it gets past HR nobody wants to be reading tons of resumes. They want excuses to exclude them and not having a degree is a really easy benchmark to exclude by

[mortal wedge]

That looks really good! My only recommendation would be to put skills at the top. Some applicant tracking systems rate keywords higher when they're at the top of the page, lol. Also, if someone is skimming your resume to see if you're a good fit, the first thing they want to see is if you hit the keywords they're looking for. Make it easy for them to find out if you're a skills match.

[mortal wedge]

For your first job, be prepared to get rejected a lot. It's nothing against you, but there are just a ton of applicants coming out of college with no job experience to differentiate them, so candidates are exceedingly similar.

[modern crypt]

Could you look at my resume and see if there’s anything I should alter to boost me?

[mortal wedge]

Sure

[modern crypt]

Alr let me send it 2 seconds

[mortal wedge]

If you're sharing/posting here btw, you probably want to anonymize it

[mortal wedge]

First thing is what I recommended to the other person, put your skills section at the top.

[modern crypt]

Okay why's that?

[mortal wedge]

(This is at least for US jobs). Two reasons. Your resumes are getting vetted by an applicant tracking system and by someone working in HR. HR generally doesn't have the technical background to understand what it is you do or what you're applying for. They're going to be looking at a list of skills and seeing if you have them. Don't make them have to look at the bottom of the page to do that. Secondly, an applicant tracking system is an automated system that will scan your resume and look to see if you have certain keywords and then will tell the recruiter/manager/whoever how good of a fit you are for the job. Some of them place more weight on keywords at the top of your resume, and unless you're somehow bypassing that automated process you want it to respond that you're a good fit.

THat web app looks really cool and will go a long way for you. If at all possible, try to determine/guess/estimate the business benefit. Which business? Did it save them time? Money?

[dense mesa]

Looks good, why aren't education, personal projects and technical skills capitalised?

[mortal wedge]

Oh, good one, I completely missed that, haha

And this isn't necessarily directed at your resume or you, just a general tip, but make sure you're comfortable speaking to anything that's on your resume.

If I'm a hiring manager asking you something on your resume and you have no idea about it, it makes me angry pretty fast, lol (Based on a true story)

[summer roost]

I wouldn't say "angry", but it does make me doubt everything you've said.

[true harness]

i would probably just get rid of that sentence under "technical skills". that would be evident based on things you cite in "Languages" and "Tools and IDEs".

in "WorkSpace NEA", you don't "implement database", you use databases. might want to check grammar

[dreamy shadow]

Good point, thanks.

[mortal wedge]

We were looking for a statistician with machine learning experience. He wrote that he had considerable experience with neural networks. I asked him what one was and he said he had no idea. 😦

Maybe I was the only one angry, but it made me mad

[summer roost]

Mm. Someone lying to get a job is unfortunate, but hardly uncommon. Seems unwise to take it personally and let it affect you emotionally.

[modern crypt]

Thanks yeah I'll put that section on the top

[mortal wedge]

Probably good life advice for a lot of things

[modern crypt]

If I'm being honest, the structure of the NEA was to have a client and solution, with an interview etc. but I just made up a fictional one for the purposes of the write up
And I put the headers in lowercase because I thought it looked cool lol I guess it's not a good idea?

[mortal wedge]

It stands out, I suppose? I've never seen it done that way. Not sure how it would appear to most people in the wild.

[modern crypt]

I'll just have to hope someone connects with my artistic approach and hires me

[mortal wedge]

Whenever I've come across resumes that were styled differently I'd think it was odd, but it wouldn't be disqualifying or anything, fwiw

Unless someone is adding in photos of themselves or something, which is a big nono

(For the jobs we're talking about here, anyway.)

[modern crypt]

Yeah makes sense, I realised I hated it and capitalised instead

[dense mesa]

It's really not a good idea

[dreamy shadow]

I hate how sample resumes for data scientist are all 2 column.

[mortal wedge]

2 column, what do you mean?

I don't suggest anyone use anything with multiple columns or tables. The reason is that there are resume parsers that will convert everything into plaintext, which means formatting is often lost. Best case the formatting info is just gone, worst case it adds gobbledygook to your resume once it gets to a human.

[dreamy shadow]

This one is comically bad.

[true harness]

some text                some different text
some text continued      some different text continued

i'd never put a headshot on a resume. takes too much space, and it's too easy to get biased against

[dreamy shadow]

The examples I've seen looks along the lines of this

[mortal wedge]

YEah... for several reasons. The photo for one. But these sorts of resumes can be okay if (and only if) you have a path to get it directly to a hiring manager. (Referral, friend at the company, etc)

[dreamy shadow]

From what I've read, some places just straight up throw out resumes with pictures. Too easy for discrimination lawsuits

[mortal wedge]

It's not even bias against, it's a liability issue for companies. I don't want.... yeah ^

[true harness]

they put "scikit-learn" as a language 😔. and python twice lol

[mortal wedge]

That would probably make it past HR, probably not get you any traction with the hiring manager.

[dreamy shadow]

I'm trying to see how to format my skills section, as moving my skills to the top just looks odd now.

[mortal wedge]

I feel really conflicted once I started having a hand in resume selection/hiring. My mindset is still that of a job seeker

PArt of me wants to accept everyone and give everyone an interview, but I obviously can't...

That's why I get angry when somebody can't even speak to something on their resume. I know it's essentially an incredibly stressful full time job to look for work and if you're just coming in with total BS you're taking up a spot somebody else who's worked really hard could be having right now

[dreamy shadow]

I do like the: Python (Pandas, Numpy, ...),
in some examples I've seen as it does a bit better job at telling recruiters x,y packages/technologies are part of z language/technology

[dreamy shadow]

This is why I don't put NLP on my resume. Haven't actually used it yet.

[mortal wedge]

You should expect to get asked questions about what you put on your resume. To assume otherwise is just naive.

[dreamy shadow]

Maybe this looks nice.

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, that looks pretty good. Play around with the styling until you find something that you're happy with.

[dreamy shadow]

It's just, if I"m putting skills at the top. It can't just be a blob of text. Where as in the bottom, it's more of an index (lol)

[modern crypt]

With that in mind, should I really be listing the benefits my web app brought to a fictitious company

[elder forge]

I tend to dislike verbose statements, and strongly prefer:
Achieved 5x speedup by multiprocessing a web-scraping app.
instead of
Utilized multiprocessing to run web scraping in parallel process, outperforming default times by 5x.
but they again, I'm not hiring anyone atm

[mortal wedge]

That's an ethical question only you can answer. What I can say is that you'll likely be asked questions and you need to have answers ready.

[modern crypt]

Yeah in that case I'll probably leave the description on the more technical side of things

[mortal wedge]

Here's where I personally draw the line. Say whatever you want on your resume and the interview to get the job, but do not fundamentally misrepresent yourself. If you're incapable of doing the job that you'll be hired for, you'll get fired, waste a whole lot of everybody's time (yourself included) and it's going to blow back on the person who hired you.

[true harness]

wait so, you didn't actually work for a local business?

[mortal wedge]

That line will probably differ depending on who you ask, though. Some job seekers will say that you need every advantage you can get so lie your ass off, some hiring managers will say it should be the strict truth and nothing but the truth.

[modern crypt]

No it was part of my A-Level coursework to make an application for a client

[true harness]

so that part is just a lie? idt I would put that tbh

[modern crypt]

Yeah nothing on my resume is a lie

[modern crypt]

I mean it was made to be used by a business, and it could be used by a business so it's not a lie?

[true harness]

ok I guess it's just the way I interpreted it. "for a local business" to me reads like "I worked for a local business and made this"

[modern crypt]

Yeah... If the interviewer asked about the business and I explained what I've told you guys, would it be a deal-breaker if it wasn't actually used?

[mortal wedge]

For some, yes. For me, no.

[modern crypt]

eesh maybe youre right

[mortal wedge]

I'm more interested in your grasp on the technology, but I also intervewed for a company and when they learned it was just a school project the tone of the interview drastically changed

But it's also your first job, so I'm expecting you to be listing school projects

[modern crypt]

I mean I made the point of listing it under my school coursework, instead of "personal projects"

[mortal wedge]

It is definitely a powerful addition to your resume overall.

[modern crypt]

Thank you, yeah I thought so too

Definitely my best project

[dreamy shadow]

Thanks, that does sounds much better.
Are there other sentences that are too wordy? Could you just point them out by line #s. I'll work on restructuring them.

[elder forge]

I can't tell you that without trying to refactor every sentence myself.
I try to avoid complicated words when a simple will do (used instead of utilized)
Try to avoid repeating the same information twice in one sentence (the word 'multiprocessing' and 'parallel' contain the same information)
Consider a simple verb if you do not need to be spesific. (do you need to say 'the model predicted a label for the images...' or can you say 'the model labeled images...')
The first part of the sentence should contain the critical information, so that if I skim through I still catch the gist.

[mortal wedge]

I disagree with some of this. Let's say multiprocessing and parallel contain the same information, you'll be rated higher on an applicant tracking system if they're checking for both those keywords if you use both of them in your resume.

[modern crypt]

I've re drafted and added a summary, since I had the extra space. Thoughts?

[elder forge]

listen to the guy who actually hires, not me 😂

[mortal wedge]

I highly highly recommend https://www.jobscan.co/. It lets you upload the job posting and your resume, checks the job board to see which applicant tracking system they use, then tells you what match percent you'll get for the job.

I also suggest having a base template and tailoring your resume to the positions that you really want

[dreamy shadow]

Mine won't match data scientists jobs at all. As DS job is very generic in their responsibilities. Very often only lists few technologies (Python, R, SQL as defaults)

[modern crypt]

Does this work for no experience internships?

[mortal wedge]

My advice trends towards how to get past an applicant tracking system, but that's because it's the most objective part of the process. If you're a decent match there, at least compared to other candidates, then you'll move on to HR where they do a very brief screening and/or look for obvious red flags, then you'll go on to a hiring manager. Your resume needs to succeed at every step

[mortal wedge]

Yup, but this only gets you past the applicant tracking system. After it goes to HR or a person, it's a lot squishier

[dreamy shadow]

I'm just saying, I don't trust that site in particular as I have used it prior.

[mortal wedge]

Gotcha. Fair enough. It's more for people who have trouble getting callbacks or recruiters reaching out

[dreamy shadow]

For example, it states the role as Junior role. But this job (DS) is more of a mid-senior role by default.

[mortal wedge]

It's going off of keywords in the job posting, so it doesn't always get it right, especially if the job title doesn't explicitly say "junior" or "senior"

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, I'm just saying for Data scientist job posting, going off "keywords" doesn't really work too well.

[mortal wedge]

I get that, but if they're using an applicant tracking system, you still need to pass it. (Unless you have a contact at the company and get a referral).

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, for some words you can try. But given this distribution, if you tailor it to much it becomes obvious.

I think I'm going to start applying. In the end, it's a #s game either way

[modern crypt]

Yeah same, earlier the better with these deadlines

[dreamy shadow]

I suggest looking at some entry-level programming resume and going off that. Entry-level/recent college graduate were key terms I used as an example.

[pulsar drum]

I had my school and personal projects merged into one section. I didn't feel like there was a benefit to making that distinction, and it also made my personal projects section look more sparse, as is the case with your resume currently.

[mortal wedge]

I agree. If you tailor to the ats too hard it looks worse to a person. I r seen some people just have a second blank page 📄 f all the keywords in white text lol. I don’t recommend that

[dreamy shadow]

The spam emails I get does this, same with some criagslist emails too.

[mortal wedge]

(If your resume is translated to plaintext, it becomes really obvious what you did, as well)

[smoky quest]

that's not how ATSes work. They are just fancy excel spreadsheets

[dreamy shadow]

I took your advice on production, scale & seniority. Included more of business impacts. Could you take a quick look at let me know if there are any glaring mistakes. I'm about ready to call it quits and use this final version to apply.

[smoky quest]

lgtm

• General Packages seems to be specifically about Python packages though. Might be confusing.
• clients to save 100k+ through litigation prevention. or Secured a 300k contract . -> Never ever ever ever ever ever forget units on figures or graphs. Especially for someone in a math minded job
• For the MLA job, it may be interesting to also add a bit more info on the tech stack and tooling
• Expect questions on the reasons for your short tenures
• Typo in the third bullet of the job in the middle. That sentence seems borked
• In general, adding the outcome and impact is awesome and does add to your resume! But now, it's super light on the tech stack or the input features you used, etc.

[dreamy shadow]

Thank you, those are really good points. Let me work through them. Balancing tech stack & impact is definitely an art.

That one bullet point is definitely from Word when I was trying to restructure, thanks for catching it.

Word starting to highlight extra words/lines by itself and it's driving me nuts. Like starting highlighting the middle of a word, it'll select the entire word instead of where my cursor is located.

[agile turtle]

Can you just get a job with your GitHub resume

[true harness]

what's a github resume

[spark cobalt]

I don't think anyone even looked at my GitHub out of the thousands of job I applied for

Also making some random recruiter try to sift through a website they don't know, to understand you, doesn't seem like a smart play.

[white relic]

github projects might seal the deal, once you've gotten to the technical interview stage and the person likes you enough to bother looking

but it's not a resume, you can't rely on it to get your foot in the door

[mortal wedge]

Yes but if HR is just choosing entries above 30% match to send to the hiring manager, you need to meet the cut.

HR won’t care about your GitHub account. They have neither the time, desire, or knowledge to understand what’s there.
I personally will look at GitHub or any other link you put on your resume. But I don’t think any of my colleagues will. I think it depends on 1) how badly they need a well qualified candidate 2) how much available time someone has and 3) the level of technical aptitude of the hiring person in question. If you do have your GitHub, make it easier for anyone who ventures there to see your highlights and point them to projects/code you’re particularly proud of.

[mortal wedge]

Recruiters won’t even read your cover letter, let alone go through your GitHub

[livid marsh]

This is the best advice I have gotten in months. Thank you for sharing.

[compact lion]

This is just my opinion, but the data structures you listed are quite trivial to implement from a description. It is extremely useful for learning to do these yourself, but I personally would just say that you have implemented a number of recursive data structures from scratch. It also saves you editing time when you implement a new data structure (like a priority queue) which I suspect you needed for A*. I also like the nerdy mentions of Vim and such, it puts you in a category of programmers that I associate with competence

[mortal wedge]

Absolutely, you're welcome. Best of luck to you in the job search

[true harness]

sheesh the paid version of that is 50 dollars a month bruh

[smoky quest]

I have never seen that or heard about it outside, in real life

[mortal wedge]

YEs, but there are ways around it, lol

[mortal wedge]

What do you mean? Are you suggesting that companies are just giving 100% of their resumes to the hiring manager or that every resume is getting viewed by human eyes?

[smoky quest]

yep, 100% of the resumes are getting reviewed by some human eyes. The degrees to which it goes recruiter vs EM depends on the company and agreement between the teams

[mortal wedge]

IF that's your experience, okay, but that's an extremely dangerous thing to say and is 100% not true for all companies

[smoky quest]

Have you hired at companies that do that?

[mortal wedge]

I've talked with hiring managers who do that. It's also just inconceivable that companies like Amazon/Google have every resume hand reviewed.

I've only hired at my company which is a small one and we don't want to pay for an ATS lol

[white relic]

I have. Not as a hiring manager but an interviewer. It's typical.

[smoky quest]

as an interviewer, you do have "keyword matching" and your manager would reject people based on that?

[white relic]

no. HR runs the filter. The hiring manager never sees the resumes that don't make the cut.

[mortal wedge]

FWIW, I found this article that quotes a study saying 3/4ths of resumes never get viewed by a person. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/75-resumes-never-read-human-174855340.html

[white relic]

That's typical of companies that are big enough to have an actual HR department.

[smoky quest]

So alright, in the universe of the possible, it can happen.
I could tweak my wording to recommending not wasting someone time on keyword optimization then given how little it's used

[smoky quest]

I have worked at companies with multiple hundred of teams and thousands of employees. That was never the case

[white relic]

I honestly don't believe that. You probably just didn't see it.

But, if there's some large company out there that hires by manually reviewing every single resume, that is the exception, not the ATS

[smoky quest]

skimming through the article,they only mention that number in the headline? Where does it come from?

[smoky quest]

Given how janky the software is. I am surprised they would support that.
But I assure you that there was no silly filter. That's just bs

[white relic]

your bs is real life for other people

[mortal wedge]

"According to a study by Preptel, a job search firm"

[smoky quest]

You are free to not believe me, and I encourage you to make your own opinion. But this ain't my first rodeo and have been through quite a few companies 😉

[true harness]

i've got no experience, but from a feasibility perspective, it seams reasonable there would be some computer filter for things, especially for openings with potentially hundreds of applicants.
is recursive claiming that there is no filter or just that filtering based on keyword matching is not done?

[smoky quest]

ah, they did spell out the number 🙂

[mortal wedge]

Apparently 4% of files can't even be parsed by the ATS and never get fully uploaded, lol.

[smoky quest]

yep, I am claiming there is no filter. It's just wishful thinking.
And even if there are some companies doing it, you would a higher ROI on other activities

[white relic]

hah, that too. If an actual person is viewing all these resumes I'd like to know why every job application site makes me copy and paste it into a text box and then enter all the data a second time to make it easier on the system

[smoky quest]

Haven't applied that frequently, but I thought linkedin has somewhat been working on that?

[white relic]

maybe recently? haven't been searching since covid or so

[mortal wedge]

This conversation confuses me to be honest. Are you saying that Applicant Tracking Systems don't have a feature to filter by % match?

OR that companies don't use them?

Linkedin does have an "Easy Apply" but I highly recommend people not to use it. Sometimes the formatting gets completely mangled and becomes a mess for recruiters who are reading it on the other end.

I had a recruiter ask me how my job was at my University... never worked there, was just a student lmao

[peak halo]

I once had an HR person say they got my application and wanted to interview me, and they gave me a questionnaire to fill out. And when I submitted the questionnaire, they said I wasn't eligible for the position because I hadn't graduated yet and didn't have two years of industry experience. which was easily inferable from my resume.

[mortal wedge]

Sometimes technology is a nightmare

[peak halo]

so either

1. they saw I had worked for the university for two years, and the HR person was just shit
2. the HR person was really shit

[smoky quest]

Companies don't use it, and I am not even sure it exists in the first place across the stack.
See for instance the experience in level: https://help.lever.co/hc/en-us/articles/360044964692-Screening-applicants-using-Fast-Resume-Review
And if the tags got your attention, this is how fancy they get: https://help.lever.co/hc/en-us/articles/203812969-Creating-and-using-tags

[mortal wedge]

So you do acknowledge that ATS's exist but are claiming that companies either 1) don't use that feature or 2) that feature doesn't exist?

[mortal wedge]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure how one system being a manual review process is relevant, unless all industries/companies use this

[smoky quest]

I never said ATSes don't exist

[smoky quest]

I think I am going to bow out of this conversation as it sounds like you are arguing for the sake of it.
It sounds very much like someone trying to play the 'achtually game.

For context, lever, is one of the top3 ATS on the market. Like indeed for companies. If you want to get into 'achtually type of conversations, I would expect the people involved in it to be aware of it

I am happy to discuss hiring from the employers' side and even disagree on things, but it's not really fun if we are pulling teeth or trying to nerdsnipe

[mortal wedge]

I think we're all trying to help people, or we wouldn't be contributing here. I need to advocate for job seekers based off of the data from available studies and my personal experiences both as a job seeker and a job hirer. Cheers.

[dreamy shadow]

Ok, added back in some of the more technical aspects while keeping in the impact.
I think this looks good now, and it's time to start applying and prepping for interviews. I guess if I don't get any call backs that means back to the drawing board.

[glad vector]

What are carrers for a master python developer

[dreamy shadow]

I've never heard back from a single easy apply linkedin application. I avoid it and just go to the company's website to apply

[mortal wedge]

Applying directly to the company's website is the right idea.

[smoky quest]

fyi, it all ends up in the same place. So whichever works for you!
(easy apply linkedin works though given ATSes do give a breakdown of leads per source)

[dreamy shadow]

More like my naive thinking of saving company money by avoiding linked-in commission fee for finding an applicant

[smoky quest]

lgtm. Looks ready to go spam some companies

[dreamy shadow]

Thank you again for all the help.

[mortal wedge]

Looks great, good luck!

[mortal wedge]

Sky's the limit really. Python is a tool that allows you to do a lot of different things. It's a multi-purpose language, so you're not really gated into one career course.

[glad vector]

Oh

[mortal wedge]

This is a little offtopic, but some recruiters make BANK for hiring key candidates. It's generally a percentage of their first year salary.

[smoky quest]

To be clear, these are not the same fees than what linkedin would take from their easy application process

[mortal wedge]

Correct

[smoky quest]

Hi!
We don't do ads on this server. You should contact @severe widget to get permission first

[peak halo]

!warn 1004420025551171604 This server is not an ad board. Posting advertisements is not permitted.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @toxic nova.

[delicate bane]

funnily enough this is how i ended up at my current job. (granted it started as an internship that transitioned to full time)

[zenith cedar]

I want a book which has explanation and question also can anyone recommend me??

[smoky quest]

on which topic?

[jade snow]

Are there any jobs I can get working with python if im not 18?

[smoky quest]

In what context? full time job? summer job? side job? other?

[jade snow]

full

[smoky quest]

The same than anyone after 18, minus the work authorization from the guardian, I guess (and dependent on the country).
That said two points:

• Python is a tool, not an end in itself. It's used in many areas, even as simple as automation. But you can find roles descriptions here: https://roadmap.sh/
• If you are 18 or below, aim for a cs degree. Without it, you will severely limit your career opportunities and compensation

[jade snow]

Thank you

[zenith cedar]

On python

[mortal wedge]

!resources

Have you seen these? Some of these are books which are quite popular

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[dreamy shadow]

Some of these job application and how they are formatted, I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemies. This one application literally asked for high school...

[spark cobalt]

If you want to simulate doing "real" work, why not work on open source or perhaps maybe some non profits can take you in? Being a minor closes a lot of doors. At least for the company I'm at, labor laws would've disallowed me to work there since they have 0 tracking of how much you work and I'd be a legal liability. (18 btw)

[spark cobalt]

#FuckWorkday

[dreamy shadow]

HAHAHAHA I would take workday over the "We hired a highschooler to design this website" application I just submitted

[spark cobalt]

Jesus it was that bad??

[cosmic forge]

:D

[spark cobalt]

Some companies still have super outdated ways of applying. Like Porsche I think? There's 0 CSS to their application so everything's a like paragraph tag input . And they have like 40 of those small ass inputs a page

[smoky quest]

there can be a stark contrast between tech focused companies and non-tech companies

[dreamy shadow]

Man, I should have screenshot. Lemme try reapplying

[spark cobalt]

Fair enough but the developer behind the website could've added like a little CSS

[dreamy shadow]

I just failed a reCaptcha I didn't even see...

[spark cobalt]

Are those education fields all required

[dreamy shadow]

And if you DIDN"T fill it out correctly

Not to mention, they parsed my resume wrong.

[spark cobalt]

I only have high school education shit bruh gotta fill my elementary to get to the next page

[dreamy shadow]

Well, all interviews are good for practice I guess...

[smoky quest]

wow.
One one hand, life is too short to retype your resume from scratch on their forms.
On the other hand, that's a good sign they must get a very low application rate and thus less competition for you

[dreamy shadow]

Lmao, they're 100% in the "Not IT" group. It said 35% travel to the factory(?) or w/e location it was.

[mortal wedge]

lol wtf

I saw one job that said Remote position (80% of time spent in office)
Bruh I do not think that word means what you think it means

[delicate bane]

oops, my hand accidentally moved to the top right of the page and closed it, oh well

[vapid jay]

yoo guys I just finished 15 hrs of beginner python course can anyone suggest me what should I do next ?

[spark cobalt]

What do you wanna do?

Anything you're interested in building? Any field you're interested in?

[vapid jay]

come in dm ?

[spark cobalt]

No

Lot of other people able to provide their 2 cents

[vapid jay]

hmm alr can y tell me some cool projects that i can try

[spark cobalt]

Well depends on what you're interested. Lot of beginners who start projects don't finish and keep starting new projects and make a collection of a bunch of unfinished projects.

Cool projects depends on what's cool to you 🙂

[compact spoke]

I need some help. I have to do a project on pneumonia detection using deep learning and machine learning. Its a group project and we just know machine learning basics and a little algo. We don't know any deep learning. We do have the code but don't know how to distribute among 3 people. And also how to quickly learn deep learning.. just need to learn straight from the code... They will teach us later. Any tactics?

[dreamy shadow]

Omg, I've been at this at least 10 times now.

[zenith cedar]

How is automate the boring stuff with python???

[mortal wedge]

It's definitely the most popular one and the one I see getting mentioned the most. This community holds it in high regard

That being said, haven't read it

[dreamy shadow]

Pneumonia detection on images? or what does your data look like?

[compact spoke]

Yes on images. Just like the rsna pneumonia challenge. I have a pneumonia imageset and a normal imageset

[mortal wedge]

This isn't the right topic for this channel but sounds like you're looking for a classification model. #data-science-and-ml Will probably be able to help

[compact spoke]

Thanks a lot! Will post there

[low snow]

At this point in your internship, are you inclined to return to X if you are offered (either for full-time or return internship depending on your status)?
Should I answer this question honestly? Or just say yes
Since honestly for me it's maybe right now not yes

[dreamy shadow]

Look into image classification using CNN (Convolutional Neural Network) which is part of deep learning

[dreamy shadow]

Just say yes, you can always say no later.

[compact spoke]

Ok will look for that

[low snow]

You're right yeah, they can't force me to join anyway

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, it's not a contract

[dreamy shadow]

Applied to 16 job applications. There goes a part of my soul

Going to need like 100+ more

[mortal wedge]

It's soulcrushing. But will eventually be worth it 🙂

[low snow]

I don't have to apply to full-time role yet and I already hate it

[mortal wedge]

I'm just trying to keep my eyes open on the side while working full time, but it's taxing

[dreamy shadow]

Feels like under 5 YoE, no one takes you seriously

[mortal wedge]

I was a really poor candidate for my first job. That's why I had to learn everything I could about the system to maximize my chances. Became best friends with some recruiters, went to career centers every day, etc.

Now that I'm working and applying elsewhere, my biggest roadblock is lack of masters/phd. A lot of job postings require masters or higher these days, at least for the highly coveted roles

[clear loom]

job search has been hell for me so far 😦 they never respond and i'm wondering if career sites even work

[mortal wedge]

Have you tried working with a recruiter? It really helps some people. They get paid by getting you work.

If you're not getting any responses then it's something to do with your resume.

[spark cobalt]

Dude I needed to apply to literal thousands

From Linkedin alone

[spark cobalt]

Are you college grad? YOE?

[clear loom]

i have not, i did contact some recruiters on linkedin but same issue, no response, as for the resume, i'm not sure - i've gotten it reviewed and friends say that it's solid

[clear loom]

yeh college grad, i've done some freelance gigs for about less than a year

[spark cobalt]

Call local recruiters.

[smoky quest]

have you posted your resume for review?

[spark cobalt]

Trying to contact the "Linkedin celebrity influencer" recruiters on LinkedIn probably won't work. They probably get hundreds of those messages everyday

[clear loom]

one of my friends partner is a recruiter and i made changes based on what they said, and i used resumeworded to see score and it comes out as 88ish

[mortal wedge]

Nice. Don't they have any contacts in your industry?

[clear loom]

asked some of my friends and they straightup said "overqualified" which i don't think is true ;-;

[smoky quest]

sounds like a good start!
The question then become why you aren't getting any reply. All things being equal, if your resume is fine, then it comes from the jobs you apply to?

[clear loom]

they're unfortunately US based and i'm in india atm

[mortal wedge]

Work your network, reach out to friends, etc. The barista at a coffeeshop had someone who worked at my dream company. Ah...

[smoky quest]

oh, I can't speak about the Indian market specifically

[mortal wedge]

My experience has only been with US

[clear loom]

i'm not sure, i've been applying to off campus jobs and a lot on linkedin for SDE jobs which ask for about 2 years or less experience but no luck

[spark cobalt]

A lot of US tech companies have an India branch, maybe see if they are connected to companies that do.

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by off campus? Haven't you graduated yet?

[clear loom]

i did! off campus recruiters look for current undergrads and those who have graduated

[smoky quest]

I see. This is still strange, but I don't have enough data points to help here.
Good luck!

[clear loom]

thanks! i feel like it's the recent layoffs affecting me 😐

[spark cobalt]

Did you only apply to jobs through LinkedIn?

[clear loom]

i'm not sure i understand, i've used indeed and straight up career websites as well

[spark cobalt]

Through using like 3-4 different sites and sending hundreds of applications. LinkedIn always had the least responses (probably cuz of competition)

[spark cobalt]

Icic

[clear loom]

i've had the least success with career websites

[spark cobalt]

Career websites being...? Like careers.company.com company.com/careers?

[clear loom]

yeah basically

[spark cobalt]

Dunno then. Since I was high school grad no degree I struggled to get through resume screening. Personally just building out networks, going to meetups in person and talking to new people I was able for a good period get a constant inflow of jobs.

If cold applying doesn't work, maybe networking will be your ticket. But yeah honestly don't really know much about the Indian market :/

[clear loom]

aye networking seems to be the only option for me at the moment, and it's the most daunting one because i'm generally not good with people and smalltalk :<

[smoky quest]

do you mind also posting an anonymized version of you resume?

[clear loom]

sure i don't mind

[inner wren]

Hey @clear loom!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[clear loom]

uno momento

@smoky quest
ok here's the latest version, this isn't the resume that my friends partner reviewed though, i'll dig that one out if this isn't good enough

it basically had a summary section and a skills section instead of activities, publications and additional

[spark cobalt]

That's not actually your personal website right? The URL leads to some shady shit

[clear loom]

wait shit i think the domain expired, good catch!

[spark cobalt]

Ya

[clear loom]

yeah haha, thanks

[zenith cedar]

Ok thank u

[spark cobalt]

The Chegg feels weird. Maybe for the Project Lead you can describe what the project was?

[clear loom]

it does feel weird! the project was the data mining one but i split it because entry level resume templates all had "projects" section under them

[spark cobalt]

I would honestly expand on the two trainings you did instead of Activities. They sound interesting from the name.

I just don't know about the Chegg thing. That's the first thing they see besides your education.

[clear loom]

should i get rid of the projects section then? i don't want to make the resume longer than 1 page

[spark cobalt]

Perhaps someone that reviews resume for work can give their two cents.

[clear loom]

it's basically a platform where you get paid to write solutions, i barely use it and only kept it there for experience 😐

[spark cobalt]

Dunno :/

[clear loom]

thoughts on the skills section? i might bring this one back, feels a lot fleshier tbh

i got rid of it because it felt way too general

[real oyster]

super important imo

[vivid monolith]

@upper scroll

@upper scroll

[smoky quest]

• Given the nature of your work experience, I would probably move the projects above it and keep education at the very top
• I think the gap is probably what's hurting you the most. Otherwise, it looks fine

[clear loom]

yeah the gap has been the biggest issue, which is why i had to shove chegg in there even though i don't use it

[mortal wedge]

Oh man I haven’t thought of Chegg in years

[clear loom]

rough times

[mortal wedge]

Gaps are rough. That was one thing I had to overcome for my first programming job. I even encountered a manager who would never hire anyone who had a gap in employment.

[clear loom]

was it just a numbers game?

[mortal wedge]

I think that stance is ridiculous but there are people like that out there

Eventually a numbers game. I also really oversold myself on the couple times I did computer related things in that time period

Started getting callbacks like crazy afterwards

This is just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. I think it’s okay to stretch the truth on a resume as long as you aren’t fundamentally misrepresenting yourself or your ability to do the job.

[clear loom]

i'm not sure i understand what stretching the truth means 👀 like add entrepreneurship/freelance/tutoring experience? technically that wouldn't be far from truth because i was helping people out in cs50 discord and the odin project

and stuff like this just makes me incredibly depressed: https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/qhg5jo/this_resume_got_me_an_interview/ 😭

[mortal wedge]

I added tutoring in to fill my gap, as I had tutored a couple of people during the time

[clear loom]

i did tutor my cousin as well!

[mortal wedge]

This isn’t directed at you but just to the channel in general, don’t lie about the companies you worked at or dates you worked as that’s publicly verifiable and most larger companies will routinely check that

In my state the questions asked of former employers are “what dates did they work here” and “are they rehireable?”

[clear loom]

if it's alright with you and if you still have the old resume, may i have a look at it?

[mortal wedge]

Of course. I think I have an anonymized version I shared online at some point. I’m away from my computer atm though

[clear loom]

alrighty no worries, whenever you're free

[vapid jay]

hi

what's everyone learning python for?

[latent marten]

big library
easy to code

[buoyant seal]

https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python
I learn mostly for scripting (Command-line Interface Development) + web related stuff (WSGI, ASGI servers, websocket, web frameworks, DevOps, task queues, RPC, RESTful API, ORM, Databases, Authentification, Asyncronous Programming, Concurrency and Parallelism, Job Scheduler, Logging, Documentation, Serialization and etc)

[vapid jay]

Looks neat. Reminds me the DOS games I used to play in 2000 BC

[loud dew]

what game engine is this?

[cosmic forge]

visual studio

[loud dew]

game engines not ide?

[cosmic forge]

i didn’t use a game engine

come to think of it i should just make a game engine

[twilit belfry]

I’m unemployed because I’m a full time student in college learning csi, do employers actually count that gap of being unemployed when you were just in school?

[peak halo]

not working while you're a full-time student is fine. the problem with gaps in your history is that if you don't appear to have been doing anything for a time, it might mean that you were unable to hold a job and didn't want to tell them.

[loud dew]

wth? no pygame or anything?

[loud dew]

pls

[twilit belfry]

Yeah I honestly hate how hard it can be to find a job too, like I get that it’s not hard and you can just go on linkedin but thats not the case for people who don’t live in giant inner citys that don’t wanna travel 1 to 2 hours to work lol

[peak halo]

I feel that. I live in a hub for the kind of work that I now do, but I still had to apply to 200+ positions to get my first job.

(though I did end up getting the exact one that I wanted. but it was really annoying up to that point.)

[twilit belfry]

Wow that’s really inspiring lol It’s hard for me to find stuff bit I’m not even through my first semester yet lol

[peak halo]

so you're looking for internships? or a coop? or what?

[twilit belfry]

yeah i’m kinda looking for entry level cybersecurity jobs, video editing jobs from home or face to face, stuff like that

[peak halo]

it's very unlikely that you're going to get one while you're a student. you should focus your efforts on getting internships between school years.

[twilit belfry]

People say cybersecurity is in high demand which I guess it is but its very hard for me to find that kind of job if you know what I mean

[twilit belfry]

Like summer?

[peak halo]

yes.

[sweet bramble]

Guys I need help asap for a simple cal for multiplication dm me

[peak halo]

@sweet bramble this is the career discussion channel. If you have a programming question, read #❓｜how-to-get-help

[twilit belfry]

yeah, I hope it’s gonna be easy to find a job that relates to computers that I can do over like 2-3 months lol, do you know of anything?

[sweet bramble]

I just Need Code simple af

[peak halo]

Please re-read what I said.

[twilit belfry]

Like a contract/seasonal job?

[peak halo]

Summer internships. If you're currently a student, and you don't have prior career experience, looking for employment modalities other than campus jobs or summer internships would probably be a genuine waste of your time.

[twilit belfry]

Sorry if I’m like wasting your time lol do you know of like what field would be easiest to get into? I have my comptia a+ and I’m working on my sec plus

[peak halo]

I don't know what comptia a+ is. web development has a relatively low barrier to entry. AI and cybersec have relatively higher barriers.

[twilit belfry]

Thats a good point, I never considered web development but that sounds like it would be a good option for me, I also want to work for someone editing videos but it’s not very easy without a connection

[gritty rivet]

With an A+ and/or Sec+ you're a good candidate for help desk, desktop support, etc. It is much easier to get those jobs then web dev but the pay is also a lot lower. If you just need any decent job, I would focus on that and work on coding skills later

[gritty rivet]

@twilit belfry I strongly agree with this though. Nobody is going to want to hire you for a job with relevant experience if they know you're only going to be there for just a few months, unless it's designed as a summer internship

[twilit belfry]

That’s what I was thinking lol

[cosmic forge]

nope

[loud dew]

howd u make the window

[cosmic forge]

i don’t remember, there’s like at least a thousand lines total in the project so i don’t really remember much

[loud dew]

a

my discord bot has 11000

[near ocean]

This is #career-advice and that convo is offtopic, please take it to #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[vapid jay]

mostly number crunching but also some ml. my goal is to build skynet and end the monkey infestation
my day job requires me to use python for backend stuff, testing/automatization and some ui crap tho. but that's not what i'm learning it for.
Great thing about python is, ain't a thing it can't do

[buoyant seal]

Full time jobs require usually 3 months just for trial period to check if u a capable worker at all.
Plus... some amount of months is required to have u onboarded into project..(if they are very big ones)

[wild sluice]

Hey guys. So I am a self taught programmer and have been doing full stack freelancing full time for about 6 years through, cold calls, outreach, and through platforms such as Upwork. I personally feel as though I can build anything using the languages I currently know. I am finally to a point in which I am seeking to get my first job at a company. And have a few questions.

1. What's the best way to display freelance work on a resume?

2. Is it harder to get a job as a self-taught programmer?

3. Should I apply for mostly entry level jobs although I believe my skill set is higher than entry level?

Thanks in Advance.

[buoyant seal]

1. • Recount projects u did as part of freelancing work experience (the most important) (used technologies, programming stuff in it)

• it would be nice to see section with biggest Achievements u made
• it should be highly preferable seeing clearly your specialization (probably it will be seen anyway though)
• it would be nice to see section with extra non job activity u do in terms of programming

2. yes, although at 6 years of experience potentially it could be less of a problem. But considering lack of company experience it is still under question. Well, it highly depends on factors... to give you more precised answer, just write your resume and give us it in anonymized form for reading
3. give us anonymized resume, and may be i would make a round of questioning to evaluate you further, depending on answers i could recommend to which rank level to apply

P.S. At this point without additional information it can be anything. May be your knowledge for companies only for Junior level, may be enough for Middle, i don't know. We need to see more info. Final answer will depend on sum of your technical knowledge + observed soft skills / attitude.
P.P.S. at some degree i can evaluate any software engineer, but it would be way better evaluated if our specializations match. Likely hood is pretty high for that

[sharp mortar]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[nimble rampart]

Hello

[worn plinth]

hey

[minor tinsel]

hey

[edgy shard]

hey

how are you doing?

[pine lodge]

I am working on my own game right now using pygame it is nothing fancy but is it something I should include in my resume or not? Once I apply for a job?

[peak halo]

if it's on github, you can put it on your resume, yes.

[true harness]

even if it's not on github, you can put it on your resume

[near ocean]

You can but people interviewing might find it odd
If its not on github or anywhere visible and youre using it to your advantage it looks weird

We had this phd student interview recently with a ton of cool simulation stuff in their personal project section but their github was full of literal cookiecutter template projects

[peak halo]

I guess, but if you want to take credit for a hobby project on a resume, but no one can see it, I'd assume you don't know how to use git/github, or that the project isn't actually good. either way, it's a negative signal.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/y8u5vi/python_is_the_top_6th_highest_paid_programming/

The top comment is great:

Employers don't pay six figures for your Python skills; they pay six figures for being an expert in a high-demand problem domain, such as data science or machine learning, it just so happens that Python is the most popular choice of programming language in those domains.

The reason PHP jobs pay badly is not because of the PHP itself, it's because the problem domains where PHP is the obvious choice. If some company were to start doing data science in PHP (God help them), then they'd have a bunch of $200k PHP jobs to fill; and a company that does [what people usually do in PHP] but with a Python platform will pay the same kind of salaries that your typical PHP web dev shop does.

So, if your goal is to command a high salary, stop worrying about "highest paying programming languages", because let's be honest here, learning a programming language is the easy part, you can do that in two months as the need arises. Look at the kind of industries that pay well, and the kind of experts they need, and become one of those.

[delicate bane]

very good comment

[dense mesa]

Could they have been restricted by the uni to not publish?

[near ocean]

I dont know, but the fancy projects in his personal projects section dont exist anywhere on github

Whats the point of saying you wrote a "python package to model semiconductor lasers with fancy numerical integration algorithms and stochastic equations" when i cant see it, total turn off

[jade anvil]

well I'm in high school or u can call it 11th garde
I love coding I have started with how to code
the thing I love coding because it involves your brain when u are I don't to be a brain less guy who just work k 9 to 5
I'm confused about which language to start with either Java or c++ as my teacher said any one of those can help
after that u can learn any other language easily

ping me if u are willing to help

[cosmic forge]

i just used tcod, and python. so if tcod counts as a game engine then i used tcod

[jade anvil]

[cosmic forge]

well, it depends on what you want to do. many languages are useful for different things. do you have an idea of what you want to code?

[jade anvil]

android development

like making apps

[cosmic forge]

then probably Java

[jade anvil]

thnx big bro :>

[cosmic forge]

you are older than me

[jade anvil]

im just 16 :>

[cosmic forge]

im a sophomore

[jade anvil]

then like same age

[cosmic forge]

nearly

[jade anvil]

ya ur older no debates or 🐱

[cosmic forge]

im 15

[jade anvil]

country?

[cosmic forge]

💀 why you wanna know my country

[jade anvil]

nvm

[peak halo]

Is everything alright here?
@cosmic forge you usually need to state your country to be able to get career advice that's specific to your circumstances. simply stating your country is not enough to personally identify you.

[cosmic forge]

fair, i just wanted to know why

[smoky quest]

From a career perspective, at 16, you should aim for a CS degree. To that end, make sure you have the grades to get into a good college/university

In the mean time, have fun! Learn whatever language you want for your objective. It will help you pick up technologies and concepts along the way.
Python is an easier language for beginners, but it depends on what you want to do. Mobile app may be a tad out of reach if you start from nothing

[jade anvil]

ya I'm preparing for jee adv hope I get into an iit soon

it will like 1yr and 3 months

to get a collage

don't worry I'll have an internship in maA 1st yr

hehe

[mortal wedge]

This is a good point and one I think people need to understand better. Python is a generalist programming language with a powerful ecosystem, in short it's a good tool. What matters is what you do with that tool.

@clear loom This is what I used to land my first major job. For context for everyone else, I was trying to land my first major job in industry after working at an unrelated job followed by a sizable unemployment gap. I focused on my most transferrable tasks at my unrelated job and then listed what I could think of that I did that was software/computer related during that gap time. Not sure if this will be of help to anyone, but on the chance that it is I share this here.

[mortal wedge]

Just to followup on what @peak halo said, we try to have people give advice here with what they're directly familiar with to make sure the information is accurate and helpful. Job markets differ significantly per country and a lot of the information I share re: hiring practices and job search specifics I can only confirm for the US market.

[delicate bane]

uh oh yikes

[mortal wedge]

Oof. Were they at least able to speak to their simulation stuff?

[near ocean]

I sure hope they did, i wasnt in the initial interview that goes through this kind of thing
Not that it would help or anything i dont think, our team is UI and their frontend projects were express/react templates

They didnt make the cut

[mortal wedge]

Gotcha. Respect to front end engineers. I have no knack for it and wouldn't get anywhere without them.

[full sigil]

Working at a warehouse 8 hrs a day 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[mortal wedge]

Oof. It's hard to job search when you're exhausted from your primary job

[brave matrix]

Im applying for data engineer positions here in Italy, and I had two interviews in the last week where they said I had the perfect skills and I would be a great talent for the company, BUT because I dont have a degree then unfortunately I cannot continue the process

do you guys recommend I make it clear in my resume that Im self taught and that I dont have any college or university degree?

[peak halo]

even though I state repeatedly in this channel that people should get degrees, I don't think it should be your job to state what credentials you don't have. if your resume doesn't state that you have a degree, and they don't ask if you have one during the application, but not having one would secretly disqualify you for the position, then they're shit for even asking you to interview.

do the job listings say "those without x degree need not apply"?

[brave matrix]

most say: must have a CS related degree

here in Italy people place alot of value in formal education

[peak halo]

sounds like they're not kidding, and that you should stop applying for those positions.

[brave matrix]

I will never find a job then 😅

[peak halo]

I don't know what to tell you. The general advice in the US is to "just apply and see what happens". But it sounds like you're doing that, and your experience is confirming that a degree is a hard requirement.

[brave matrix]

I've sent 120 applications so far, got 4 interviews (all by call, just the first step)

1. was to arrogant, and got her name wrong
2. had all the skills, but they wanted work experience (I have zero, unless you count the projects)
3. also match all the skills but they required a degree
4. was invited for a 4 week, full-time academy, which only if I complete than I have a CHANCE of getting hired (company with 700k employees)

I feel like I would be a very good match for companies with less than 50 employees, but theyre hard to find on LinkedIn

[delicate bane]

did you ask about this "chance" - what does that even mean? are they making you pay for it?

[brave matrix]

the acadamy is paid by corporate, once I finish it theyre will be a test, and if I demonstrate I understand all the concpets, than I will get a job offer

the thing is, im already in a DS bootcamp, I'm only gonna leave that if I have a job offer for sure

[delicate bane]

i see

[near ocean]

Why cant you get a degree? Did you mention already?

[brave matrix]

im broke

cant wait 3-4 years to get a diploma

[near ocean]

Nothing a part time job wont fix?
Google suggests that the average course tuition fee in italy is around €1100 per year

[mortal wedge]

Came across an interesting artilcle, thought I'd share it here. It doesn't 100% agree with my experience, but it has numbers and such. I assume it's for US
https://www.zippia.com/advice/resume-statistics/

[brave matrix]

part time job is ok if its tech related, thing is, the pay over here is shit, so I want to work full time for a year and go to New York once I have that experience undery my belt

and I meant broke to live on my own, univirsities are cheap here, and I could even go to a public one for free I think

[smoky quest]

unless you have a degree or work with a US based company for a year at least from Italy, you will have a hard time emigrating

[brave matrix]

I was born in NY, so I have US citizenship

[smoky quest]

oh that helps a lot

[mortal wedge]

Still maybe want to secure that job before moving 🙂 NY can be expensive to live in

[agile turtle]

Hi guys I need help regarding my career in my life. I failed my senior secondary school and I didn't go to college. I have been self self studying programming but my growth is slow. I am 23 and I need to earn what should I do please help.

[brave matrix]

do you think they will overlook my experience since its not in the US?

[brave matrix]

true, still need to get that experience first 😅

[smoky quest]

US companies are used to hire people from all background and nationalities.
They care more about the demonstrated skills rather then where you got them

[mortal wedge]

Some companies may, but overall I think you'll be fine. It's not something I would care about.

[mortal wedge]

Country?

[smoky quest]

If money is an emergency, then go for any job you can find, even if non-tech related.
Finding a job without a degree can take some time and be difficult. All the while, you need to feed yourself in the mean time. With regards to the job, you will need to build the skills to get into interviews and get hired. A common path for self-taught engineers is frontend/webdev

[brave matrix]

btw do you guys know how I can practically find small companies/ startups that are hiring ?
unfortunately LinkedIn dosent have a employee size filter

[mortal wedge]

Try different job boards. Larger companies will usually advertise on multiple job boards, while smaller companies pick one or two. I've gotten good luck with smaller companies on indeed and zip recruiter

[brave matrix]

I've had good luck with Indeed as well, I just serached for zip recruiter and it dosent have any listings in Italy

if you have any other websites let me know pls

[mortal wedge]

I've heard monster.com float around as well. Not sure if has jobs in Italy

[smoky quest]

it may be worth attending some local meetups and networking to build a network and contacts

[agile turtle]

India

[mortal wedge]

I'm not too familiar with the job market in India and how they hire. But you may want to get a non-tech job in the meantime while you're learning. Or even a tech-adjacent job like tech support or something.

[agile turtle]

I was wondering if I should join any bootcamp or some kind of school to learn skills, because I am not able to do self study efficiently on my own.

[smoky quest]

bootcamps aren't equivalent to a degree, but they can help with their professional network and some structure in their learning. So potentially yes

[mortal wedge]

The path to employment is typically either bootcamp or degree. So if degree is off the table, you probably do want to do a bootcamp. Degree is far more effective though.

[gritty rivet]

Many sites like YCombinator, Angellist and others have job listings only for startups

[brave matrix]

someone here recommended angellist before, but for some weird reason when I enter the name to signup it throws an error, I tried a couple times already smh

[spark cobalt]

Networking OP

[gritty rivet]

That's annoying. You don't need an account to search it seems, and could apply through other channels.

Otta.com is another startup-orriented site but I never had any luck

[mortal wedge]

Getting a referral is a really good idea if you can swing it. One study showed it that you have like a 50% higher chance of getting a job/interview, I think. It also lets you bypass the ATS and get directly to a person.

[brave matrix]

The link you sent said 60% of jobs were found thru in person connections, but its the hardest imo

[clear loom]

heyoo! thanks smuch for remembering! 😄 i'm not sure i understand how you covered the gap up, a startup project?

[mortal wedge]

That was when I said I had a business "UltiPro Solutions" lol. Then just wrote about whatever little projects I did in the meantime

[mortal wedge]

It is, but people love hiring this way, since they avoid the cost of job boards and commissions of recruiters. It's not for everyone, but networking events and such can be good for this.

[clear loom]

was it a real business or.. 👀

[mortal wedge]

It wasn't like... registered or anything

and I didn't come up with the name until later. But I did do some computer related work during that time frame. Technically, including one contract gig

[clear loom]

oh oki gotchu, thanks! i did a few gigs on reddit and from some random discords so that should come in handy

career objective/summary in a resume, yay or nay?

[mortal wedge]

I think it's ridiculous that a lot of companies don't consider candidates with employment gaps. They may have a good reason and does that just mean that someone with an employment gap should never have a job again? It's stupid

[mortal wedge]

I had it in this one, but generally don't recommend it unless you're desperate to fill up space

[clear loom]

yeah honestly, the whole auto reject resume makes me not want to apply already

[mortal wedge]

Just be expected to apply 10-50 times at least until you find a job

and while experiences differ, I had really good experiences working with recruiters who are financially motivated to help you find work

[clear loom]

alrighty, currently i have my resume headings in the following order
Education
Projects (recursive_error suggested to bump this above work exp)
Work Experience
Skills
is that alright or is your template better? skills > education > work exp > projects

[mortal wedge]

I suggest bumping skills to the top, otherwise it's ultimately a matter of preference.

Your skills tend to be the first thing people look at because it's an easy/rough indicator as to whether or not they should continue to read the resume.

[clear loom]

aye gotchu, thanks!

should I be more general with the skills section or will this suffice?

[mortal wedge]

Looks fine to me!

My other main piece of pertinent advice is to tailor your resume to the job postings you really want. Like, have a base template but for the really important postings read the job posting and try to make it as clear as possible that you have the skills that are being asked for.

I had a much better success rate of getting at least a phone screen when I did that

[clear loom]

yeah i've come across that advice a lot, different resumes for different job postings based on what they require - one of my friends unethical life pro tip was to literally make a word vomit of keywords (all the keywords that most jobs require, like tech stacks and stuff) make it 1pt and white and shove it somewhere in the resume so it literally can't be seen but ATS will pick it up

[mortal wedge]

That strategy was popular back in the day, but most companies/ATSs (at least larger ones) have caught on to it.

[clear loom]

hahaha, i wonder if india has still caught up to it x)

[mortal wedge]

They often translate to plaintext so it becomes 12 pt font in black, lol

[clear loom]

oh boy wouldn't that mess up some formatting

[mortal wedge]

Yes

Some people recommend having two resumes, one for when you're submitting to a website/ATS and one you submit to a person. I could never be bothered to do that and just had one that could be easily parsed

But I was never too graphically artistic.

[clear loom]

yeah same, i really liked how simple your resume was! one resume to rule them all

[mortal wedge]

Definitely, if you're in the US, keep it to one page.

Once met a guy that came to a resume class with a 30 page resume and the instructor binned it and told him to try again, lmao

[clear loom]

30 pages 😭 how on earth

[mortal wedge]

He eventually got it down to 3 I think. It was humbling for him.

This is someone with like 30 years in the career world

so I guess he must have did a page a year or something lol

[clear loom]

rofl

[mortal wedge]

But the recommendation is one, two max and that's only when you're well established in your field and have so many high powered achievements that it's hurting you not to include them all

Jobs in academia are different though, they typically want to know everything you've done that might be relevant

[clear loom]

aye that's true, had a friend who made like 5 page long resume for GA position

[delicate bane]

wow i just heard of an interesting concept from a podcast. dunno if anyone else has come across this but:

"there are jobs below the API, and there are jobs above the API."

[white relic]

what is that supposed to mean?

[spark cobalt]

Ah I had a networking resume and an online application resume.

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, that's a common tactic and a good idea. It was just me being uninspired artistically and lazy that led to me only having one

[spark cobalt]

At least for my 30 second elevator pitch, having a resume that outlined what I say is much more impactful and flows well.

Most of my connections end up getting the normal online application resume when they ask me for updated resume a week to a couple weeks down the line.

So I guess perhaps it worked if they circle back, or at least having separate resume definitely could've helped. (Don't have the data to back it, but presumably it does help)

[clear loom]

resume reveal when 👀

[spark cobalt]

High school grad resume is

[clear loom]

i am now going to use dingbats in resume, 🖂 🗏 🖫 🖉

[true harness]

i actually love the linkedin and github icons i have on my resume. they're just from a font package but they're so cute lol (they're actually super annoying to have since the only thing i use from that package is the icons and the package requires me to run LuaLatex instead of latexmk)

[spark cobalt]

LATEX RESUME GIGACHAD

[clear loom]

actually thought of doing that as well, but it was HELL to setup, had to use tables and couldn't get the text and image to align properly at all

but yeah mine is pretty latex-ey as well

[true harness]

hmm, the | isn't exactly centered it seems. either that or the icon is like, closer to the | than the words. something seems off about it

[spark cobalt]

What the fuck I just copied those shitty Google Doc resumes

[clear loom]

yeah, that's the table border - i couldn't remove the.. margin/padding, its already at its lowest

maybe i should just use a google doc template as well

but i like wasting time in word so there's that

[spark cobalt]

Y'all are insane

[true harness]

that's latex right? you're using a tabular?

[clear loom]

what did you expect from a rust discord :^)

[spark cobalt]

My resume is 3 pages long. 1 page dedicated to passing custom resume scanner

[clear loom]

no that's ms word lol

[true harness]

ooooh...

[clear loom]

how is yours btw

[true harness]

wdym, the spacing?

[clear loom]

yeah, did you do it in latex? 👀

[true harness]

ya,

you'd probably get better spacing without a table type thing, tbh. have you tried that?

[clear loom]

alrighty i could use a font so it looks like that, its worse without the table lol

because word apparently doesn't understand how to vertically align image and text that are on the same line

[true harness]

ohhh, that's an image?

[clear loom]

did you use fontawesome or is that like an actual font?

[true harness]

fontawesome lol

[clear loom]

ok gotchu i'll see if that's possible in word

[true harness]

does word play well with version control? ik it's like a custom format thing. one reason i like using latex is that i can version control and branch for different jobs lol

[clear loom]

yeah there's like track changes option in word which tracks all your revisions and stuff, also i don't think i can get it better than this 💀

[true harness]

the line isn't centered 😭 but vertically this time 😩

[spark cobalt]

Maybe this is why your resume didn't get many responses. This is visual assault... Literally...

[clear loom]

it's literally just | 💀

oh wait i could throw all this in a table cell and MAYBE?

[true harness]

maybe we should move to OT. i can extoll the virtues of latex

[clear loom]

this is terrible, let us do that

[vapid remnant]

Hi

[mortal wedge]

Hello

[glass yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-gif-25645320

[cyan hearth]

hello everyone where can I publish a job?

[summer roost]

We don't have a place for that on this server.

[rapid delta]

GOOD LUCK MAN

[solar garden]

Anyone recommend a project that I could do to apply for high school? I know python. Currently studying HTML, CSS. (Don't give me game ideas)

[vapid jay]

thats really cool good luck man

[smoky quest]

Anything that lines up with your interests.
You can find a list there to: https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html

[nimble rampart]

Does our ug college reputation matters when we r applying for pg in top universities aborad..i have a 9.8cgpa..but

[smoky quest]

what's a pg?

[nimble rampart]

Post graduation

[smoky quest]

And what is the target university? Each country have their own thing

[smoky quest]

It shouldn't matter beyond the correlation with the quality of your work.
But the best way is to make sure of it is to look at their acceptance criteria

Also remember that you do know the top universities of your own country. But would you be able to tell me the top university of Paraguay or Thailand? It's the same thing for lots of countries 😉

[nimble rampart]

Yes in a way u r right ...but I heard the admission community checks the ranking of the college during the process it's all available in Google isn't it.not much effort needed

[smoky quest]

different countries and universities have different practices. There is no universal truth there.
I am sure some do, and some do not.

Plus there is a whole grand canyon between making it the sole criteria to making it a minor interesting point. A lot of universities will be somewhere in between

And on top of that, the past experiences they got with previous folks from a given university will also bias their take on anyone else from the same place

[nimble rampart]

Yes you are right!

[smoky quest]

Hi! This is not a channel for shitposting

[vapid jay]

This is not true right?? I mean it's also depend on our purpose i think? I just stared learning python because i want to be a
com vision engineer or sth like that, im not sure for that field if c++ or python is better?

[buoyant seal]

There is some truthfulness to this statement. C++ is way harder, after that jumping to Python is like going from bicycle to electroscooter.
And even if u knew C++, i could be forgetting about it in several years and getting too much used to Python.
After that returning to C++ is quite painful and undesirable xD

[elfin abyss]

I mean I think it would be the same both ways

I've got a friend who's almost solely just doing systems programming stuff in C, and he finds Python quite hard, because either way you go you have to think differently and adapt to new concepts

[white relic]

In general you can do concept-for-concept translation of pretty much anything in C or C++ to Python.
it won't be good Python, but all the features are there in broad strokes

going the other way seems harder to me, because like... translating a class decorator requires learning templates, lol

[digital fjord]

I disagree, pointers and references allow idioms which are more or less impossible in python.

[full siren]

Can I work with iot and arduino using python or should i learn cpp instead?

[elfin abyss]

You might want to head to #python-discussion

Not the right channel for that discussion

[full siren]

its sorta career releated

[elfin abyss]

Not directly

[white relic]

Go seems like a good example because it doesn't have inheritance, so like... the #1 tool you use for abstraction in either Python or C++ is neutralized

y'know what, this isn't career related either

[clear loom]

random question but volunteer work on resume, yay or nay?

[true harness]

better than nothing

[modern aspen]

Hey guys I have found an IT developer apprenticeship, very well paid

£30k a year apprenticeship so I imagine it’s very competitive, what can I say or do when they inevitably ask me “why should we pick you”

[clear loom]

check out https://www.youtube.com/c/CareerVidz
dude gives solid advice for interviews and will answer most of the questions you'll have regarding interviews

basically mention your strengths/past experiences and how they will impact the company/role positively

[dense mesa]

For the grad and junior jobs I've seen in this field (so this is biased towards UK/London and tech), they are looking for people who:

1. Are willing to learn
2. Can be taught without being difficult
3. Seem suitable for the long term

[dense mesa]

Yeah this guy is fantastic, if you connect directly with him on LinkedIn he sometimes gives his paid course for a free trial in DMs. I only did the trial and found it helpful

[clear loom]

oo that's neat, will do, thanks!

[dense mesa]

@modern aspen make sure you have the basic knowledge requirements for the interview, but above all be curious, open to new ideas, and teachable

[vapid jay]

Career...is part of our life you know. I learn python for 2 or 3 months now, i now it's gonna be a long progress . i want to ask people who've made a living on sofware developing for a long time: right now, what are the percentage of why you still sticking with this job?? like 50% for fun 50% for money,... or maybe because of something else??

i know it's different for each person, i just want to know y'all opinions

[near ocean]

Its 100% for money, bills dont pay themselves

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, programming as a job has basically destroyed my motivation to work on personal projects, it's 100% about earning income for me now

[buoyant seal]

@gritty rivet i actually still do pet projects. Learning in books and practicing in pet projects is main way for me to learn new materials before trying at work. + Trying new things that i could be forbidden applying at work.

• Planning some career switch to different language, therefore i can learn it only in pet projects. And just trying new infrastructure objects.

Surely hard to find time, but that's very important, so i try to put all possible free time into it. At least 10 hours per week or more

[spark cobalt]

I leave all my learning to work. Work in flat hierarchy, everyone in a single team kinda thing company so I'll eventually be touching something I don't know. And then I learn other stuff like economics and math (and soon history) after.

Imo if work isn't making you learn everyday, that's a sign to switch to work for another company, or on a different division etc.

Work just takes so much fucking time to not be learning from it

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, that's good... I hope to get back into it. I've been an SWE for less than a year and have been working on an AWS cert. Hopefully after that's done I'll find my project mojo again 🙂

[spark cobalt]

How long does AWS cert take to complete?

[vapid jay]

hey

[spark cobalt]

I need to learn AWS for work 😅

[vapid jay]

whats aws

[gritty rivet]

It depends on how much you know and which cert. I've spent months on the Practitioner level cert (exam is happening in one week!) but an experienced person could bang it out quick

[spark cobalt]

I wonder if a book is good enough in replacement of cert course. Might be more efficient

[vapid jay]

is there any channel here where people showcase there projects

[spark cobalt]

Oh there's different levels! Never knew. Yeah I should probably research first before asking. Thanks

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, I read two exam prep books. If your employer won't pay for the cert or you don't care about the cert, I would just read the books. Practitioner is mainly just about knowing the full range of AWS services, what they're for, very basic stuff about costs and security and so on

I may follow through and do this: https://cloudresumechallenge.dev/

[gritty rivet]

#python-discussion is fine for that

[spark cobalt]

[nova mural]

Would you higher me if I gave this as an answer?

[dense mesa]

This channel isn't for shitposting

And if you're being serious, that's a poor implementation of fizzbuzz

[gritty rivet]

Maybe, but not if you can't spell "hire" 😉

These exercises are usually not as much about your code as how you explain it, etc.

[nova mural]

English isnt my first langauge. sorry.

[summer roost]

I expect you'd find very few people who would work for free. The reason people have jobs is to earn money. That doesn't really tell you anything about whether or not people find the job enjoyable, though. I like coding, I do it professionally because it pays well, and most days I find the job interesting, challenging, and fulfilling.

[spark cobalt]

Not about the answer but moreso about the process. The next question is how can you limit all those statements for each iteration.

[nova mural]

By making the calculation in the if statements.

[spark cobalt]

This isn't relevant to careers anymore. Ask somewhere else.

[nova mural]

ok

[spark cobalt]

Money just makes programming viable. If every job paid the same, would you still program is the more fun question.

[vapid jay]

That depends to different people right?

[spark cobalt]

Got heavily invested into programming way before I ever thought of programming as a profession. Super lucky I guess to have something that I love doing for work.

[spark cobalt]

Yeah absolutely.

We all "do it for money" cuz we need to survive. But other professions also pay, some more and some less. Just a matter of why programming specifically.

[brave matrix]

hahaha

btw, when people say you should learn data structures, is it specifically on how the different built in Collections work (list, dict, set, etc.), or about the big O notation?

[vapid jay]

How long have you been in this field?? And do you still have that passion?

[summer roost]

Both. You should learn data structures and algorithms because it helps you write better, more scalable code. That includes knowing which data structure performs better than others for a certain user case, and being able to explain the performance of some algorithm in terms others will understand

[brave matrix]

so 'data structs' is about knowing how builtins work, and 'algorithms' on how to measure/quantify the performance when the input changes? (aka big O)

btw im asking about the meaning of the words, not what I should/ shouldnt study

[gritty rivet]

Not just builtins, also linked lists and other data structures

[summer roost]

Data structures is about learning what major data structures have been invented, and what each of them is useful for, and when you'd prefer one over another for a problem both could solve.

[gritty rivet]

Stacks, queues

[brave matrix]

I see, that makes sense

[summer roost]

Algorithms is partially about learning common algorithms that have been developed, and partially about learning terminology and methods for describing how the performance of algorithms changes as the amount of data fed to them grows.

[brave matrix]

and what am I expected to know when applying for junior/entry-level jobs as a Data Engineer?

[dense mesa]

@brave matrix think about why we need things like lists, dictionaries, strings and so on to represent information in code. That helps fit into place why we need certain algorithms to make use of those data structures

[brave matrix]

totally ive been coding for almost a year, and up until two months ago, when choosing a data strcut for my code, I would simply choose the easiest to implement

but lately I started considering, speed for accessing elements, amount of memory, iterating through the struct, will I need to modify it, when to load everything onto memory, etc..

[brave matrix]

?

[dense mesa]

This is pretty ambiguous without a job description

[spark cobalt]

Probably whatever college courses teach for DS students. Most of your competitors will be in this range, so should be the most fair assumption of what you know when applying for DS job

[brave matrix]

Mb, ofc all the job postings differ alot, but the main posts Im applying to, have these main skills:
Python (OOP, Pandas, PySpark), SQL, cloud providers (GCO, Msft Azure, Amazon AWS, etc.), and some Data Viz (Excel, Tableau)

[true harness]

isn't that your answer? try to get those skills

[near ocean]

Had a yikes moment, guy interviewing for team with current title of Senior UI Dev and 10 years exp couldnt get past fizzbuzz
Do your daily leetcode guys, its good for you

Maybe I should start applying to jobs with senior in the title

[mortal wedge]

Holy shit, I hear stories of this sort of thing, wasn't sure if it was true.

I do have problems with fizzbuzz as a question, but that's probably offtopic for this channel. (But basically, I think some experienced people look for a well optimized solution as opposed to just answering the question)

[near ocean]

You mean unsolicited optimisations? Or do interviewers pressure them for better solutions?

[mortal wedge]

Unsolicited optimizations. It's an easy problem on it's face so I think sometimes people overthink it. Which I suppose is another issue that may be of interest to an employer

[near ocean]

Wow, I intentionally started with naive solutions when i interviewed here, then asked if i should optimize, on a couple of occasions they didnt even want me to

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. Imo it's just a litmus test, is this person full of it or is there a decent chance they have their qualifications.

That's not to say all companies are like that, some fully believe that leet code style questions or brain teasers are somehow the optimal way to evaluate a candidate. But I'm hoping the culture has evolved past that. I think it has for at least the bigger companies.

[near ocean]

i dont see a problem with leetcode to be honest because it is 100% gameable and as an interviewee that benefits me

im not so self-righteous to let that get in the way of more 💸 but thats not necessarily the most ethical of things lmao

[brave matrix]

I have the skills, I know how to use the bultins, but im asking if im expected to know about the big O and algorithms for an entry level position

[true harness]

probably, but I wouldn't know

[near ocean]

probably yes, you should know when to use hashmaps, trees, graphs, etc

[pseudo widget]

hey guys, can you help me to understand my assignment idea because

I didn't got it

[near ocean]

You can ask in #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help

[pseudo widget]

ok, thank you

[mortal wedge]

Oh yeah, it's gameable and benefits people who take the time to learn leetcode. It's just silly to me overall because now the skills to get an interview and nail an interview have almost nothing to do with your actual job performance.

[mortal wedge]

In the US at least, many job interviews gave me basic to mid level DSA questions to solve.

It's a popular way in the US to check to see if somebody has coding fundamentals.

[near ocean]

This is true but i would rather not be put under the microscope with a job related task to solve either because having people over my shoulder is not how I solve tasks

So if i have a choice between something i can study for thats boring but i can nail and a realistic task for the job in an environment that isnt what you have on the job, i'll take leetcode thanks

[summer roost]

I think leetcode questions are a poor proxy for relevant job skills, but they're a level ground on which to compare candidates of different backgrounds, using material that everyone who gets a CS degree is expected to learn. You do need some amount of DS&A knowledge on the job, and it's something easy to test for, and easy to learn, and easy to compare results across candidates.

They're not perfect, and certainly they shouldn't be the whole interview, but they do give some valuable information

[mortal wedge]

"Tell me about your approach to solving a difficult problem"
"I first check stack overflow to see if a solution exists, then I ask on programming related social media if anybody has encountered this issue before"

[digital fjord]

"I research the problem and consult my peers and seniors to find an existing solution if one exists in order to avoid creating excessive maintenance burden."
just gotta be a tad creative with the phrasing.

[smoky quest]

It's something commonly expected as fundamental for entry level positions. It will be quite helpful for you to devise algorithms and select the best datastructure for your job.
Regardless of whether or not you are looking for a job, that's something definitely worth learning about and improving!

[mortal wedge]

Hah. Fair enough!

[smoky quest]

people do try that, and it tends to make it worse once you start diving into it.

[digital fjord]

how come? Do they just memorise a response and have no idea what it actually means or why is that the way to do it?

[smoky quest]

It starts to fall apart once you start asking: "Great! Can you give me a concrete example! How did it go? What trade offs did you make?"

Which then leads to some uncomfortable minutes and that puts in question the entire trust in the candidate. If they try shenanigans on that topic, what else are they making up stuff on?

[digital fjord]

I can see how being put on the spot like that could be troublesome, but I feel like phrasing things in a way that makes them sound more "professional" is a separate topic from "making up professional sounding things which you dont actually do". In the end, that is actually what I (and presumably most people) do when I run into a difficult problem.

[narrow ether]

if you had to pick between software dev and cybersecurity career path, which would you take and why?

[modern aspen]

@clear loom @dense mesa thank you

[mortal wedge]

Software dev, because I'm more interested in that 🙂 I would encourage you to choose which sounds more interesting and which you'd be more motivated to learn.

Keep in mind that your career path you select would involve you spending most of every day working on it, so it behooves you to choose something you think would be fulfilling/enjoyable

[smoky quest]

I don't think the problem is about how eloquent one should or could be.
You can still go in details of a situation while being quite eloquent. The problem arises when someone tries to use big words and business sentences to hide their lack of skills.

[smoky quest]

What is the expected outcome of this question?
How would my choice impact yours?

[mortal wedge]

I'll be honest, if I had to choose between a candidate that explored existing solutions first versus one that just tried to hack something together, I'd want the first. One of the juniors on my team hacked something together and spent a lot of time and effort on it, which made him really invested in a suboptimal solution while I just looked through research papers to see what others in the industry did and came up with a far superior solution in a heartbeat.

Even I fall into this trap, I just recently spent a day devising a complex function for numpy arrays only to find out the next day that numpy had a similar function that was extremely similar and even slightly superior to mine. I should have sought existing functionality first.

[delicate bane]

both numpy and pandas have a lot of secret, nifty functions. i did something similar for pandas the other day; its ok.

[summer geyser]

Was hoping to hear if I got rejected or not today, gotta wait over the weekend

[honest pivot]

A lot of times you don't know what you should be looking up, and this is part of why having seniors around to talk to is so important. Like unless your problem is really super unique and special, it likely has a name and a bunch of research papers written on it.

[past socket]

Is golang a good choice or I should stick to python?

[unborn zenith]

Hi folks - I am at a data technology startup as cofounder/CFO. We are looking for both junior and senior developers (Python, Angular, etc) to add to our team. Is there a typical way that companies post openings in this chat thread or other discords?

I appreciate the tips re: Monster, Indeed and other job boards people have mentioned.

[peak halo]

Is there a typical way that companies post openings in this chat thread
It's made clear in our rules that job posting is not permitted on this server.

[unborn zenith]

Ah got it - thanks for clarifying

[summer roost]

There are currently more python jobs than golang jobs, but most real world jobs require you to use more than one language at some point.

[buoyant seal]

obviously software dev, because cybersecurity sounds to me like a path possible to be succesful in only later after u a already software dev.
I heard that in modern times Cybersecurity evolved into DevSecOps ideally profession.. so ideally you are as preqrequisite
Software Engineer -> Which became Backend dev -> Which became DevOps engineer -> Which became DevSecOps xD (And somewhere in the process in parallel learned CyberSecurity xD)
Alternate paths are present, but this is one is just the most... solid looking like At least from the bits i can guess

[balmy mural]

I disagree that you need to start of as a software dev to go into cybersecurity. It's only anecdotal, but I do have two friends who started off as pentesters as their first jobs after finishing their degrees

Not 100% sure what their job titles were, but majority of their work was pentesting when they started

[vapid jay]

@remote roost

[mortal wedge]

That's true. I think a lot of the value I bring to the business is that I know what to look up and how to implement the solutions found in these research papers.

[smoky quest]

Hi! we don't do ads on this server

<@&831776746206265384> ads ^.
It also looks like they have a history of ads

[astral kernel]

This is not an ad, Just a resource of learning (Free of cost, LIVE Online) you can check on the website

[fringe pine]

Hello @smoky quest, please contact @severe widget to ask permission before publicising events.

[smoky quest]

I definitely will! But I also think you are tagging the wrong person 😉

[fringe pine]

Ah

[fringe pine]

@astral kernel See above.

[astral kernel]

Done sent a msg for permission thank you.

[vital skiff]

Can anyone recommend a SQL course I can learn please? Feel I need to have this on my CV and experience

[gray sky]

What pays better a cs job or a law based job ( I can't decide which career to take)

[near ocean]

It depends and also how are we supposed to know how much lawyers make?

[spark cobalt]

CS. If you get into the top law firms in like NY then sure law, but you're signing up for pain and suffering.

Law has higher cap, CS more plausible to make big money also work life balance generally better. Law also has a super high barrier to entry (law school, bar, etc.)

Lot of things to consider than just pay

[snow stratus]

What was the best python data analytics course/ certificate have you ever taken?

I want something that boosts my career

[spark cobalt]

College

[snow stratus]

Do you mean university degree?

I want to have a in depth knowledge of python

[spark cobalt]

Python is just a tool to help with Data Analytics. The fundamental core is math.

[snow stratus]

so?

I have an engineering background, I am a recent university graduate. I am looking for enhancing my python with a unique course. Is there any course worth learning for python?

[white relic]

That depends on what you want to do with it. What kind of engineering background do you have?

[near ocean]

Python certificates are useless
Pick up automate the boring stuff and build projects yourself

[buoyant seal]

Text tutorials for the win, Interactive tutorials for the greatness. (Exception in video tutorials for great speakers in conferences)

[elder forge]

This appears to break rule 6: Do not post unapproved advertising. and rule 7: Keep discussions relevant to the channel topic. Each channel's description tells you the topic.

[wary dune]

But no one responds me in the mod mail. Look, it is just a video, don't mute/ban me for posting a link please. I posted online my work and now I want to get views, just like anyone else.

[still condor]

global variables 😔

[analog sun]

You have DMs disabled and haven't received our reply

[wary dune]

? DMs disabled? I don't think so. I could always receive dms from unkown people. How do I reopen them?

[still condor]

What? Are you saying my $95 certificate from w3schools won't kickstart my career?

[analog sun]

There should be a setting in Privacy and Safety

[wary dune]

It says that I have them opened.

[analog sun]

This is what I see

[wary dune]

No server with the bot...hm...

[buoyant seal]

!ot we have flood channels for that.

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel: #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[buoyant seal]

plus u can send it to Reddit or whatever place, more dedicated for this. Ergh, u know i am not SMM person

[analog sun]

Anyways, here is our message:

Hi there, a Discord server is not the best place to promote content such as this in general channels, as it will get buried in ~5 minutes with the amount of message we receive.

As such, we instead recommend posting on a sub reddit such as /r/python or /r/learnpython. Of course respecting their rules while doing so.

[wary dune]

Okay thank you. I don't have reddit, maybe I will make an account in order to get subscribers on my account. Thank you for your time, maybe you'll be kind enough to subscribe to my channel as well. Have a great day!

[buoyant seal]

also consider going to Youtube Shorts/ Tiktok for producing video content. One minute shorts video are way more highly likely to get attention of users.
If u want to make a serious investment into it, also reading some SMM books or something. I have at least one channel where i enjoy content, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWI-ohtRu8eEeDj93hmUsUQ

[elder forge]

wow, this actually went from being off-topic to on-topic 🤣

[near ocean]

Stop trying to cheat on your assignments

<@&831776746206265384> crossposting and asking for help with exams

[clear loom]

video tutorials are the biggest bait programming has ever seen

[gilded valley]

This just sounds like gatekeeping. And is not on topic for this channel

[vague brook]

How do you become a software engineer in India?

[mortal wedge]

I don’t know the process in India specifically, but most involves a computer science degree.

[spark cobalt]

Books meta

[alpine jacinth]

Do I need a degree in CS to work at any FAANG companies?

[smoky quest]

That would be the simplest and most likely way for you to get in

[alpine jacinth]

Is a Bachelor’s okay or Would I need a master’s?

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't frame it in terms of what is okay, but how do they relate to your career goals. Different degrees will lead to different paths
But yeah, bachelor is the minimum.

[smoky quest]

also fyi, if money is your only motivation, I would recommend to rethink your approach. That would not necessarily make you as successful and you may hate it

[alpine jacinth]

I’ve heard good things about working at Google so I want to try getting a job there

[smoky quest]

yeah, you should get information about what that means first.

You shouldn't jump into something because you heard good things

[vapid jay]

I would think any tutorial is a plus as long as it’s well thought out and doesn’t skip things

[spark cobalt]

Not gatekeeping if it's true

[elder basin]

@sour tartan which programming language pays the most in the UK

[sour tartan]

i don't know, and i have to leave anyway. People here can help you. Don't sell your soul too early.

[elder basin]

😂 have a good day

[elfin abyss]

There's no real answer to that question

[elder basin]

If I were to become really good at programming in python and do a placement year at university what would you think my salary would be straight after. And should I aim to do a masters

[elfin abyss]

Again, way too many things to consider to give a decent answer, you'd have to look into specific companies who would be offering people roles for people in the same position as you

[elder basin]

Is it possible to get 60k straight after university ? In the UK for a software engineer real

[elfin abyss]

No idea I have no idea what goes on in the UK

Look into specific roles being offered to graduates

[elder basin]

Kk

[smoky quest]

I believe the following would also apply to you: #career-advice message

[spark cobalt]

I feel like CS is something super easy to get interested and eventually enjoy. There's so many new things going on everyday it's kind of a waste to be in this environment and not be fascinated by all the advancements that are happening.

A lot of people would kill to have a job that's related to what they enjoy doing. Almost feels like a waste...

I get that CS is a good choice career wise, but there's definitely not anything holding you back from enjoying it

[smoky quest]

it's a human thing. You would be surprised

[spark cobalt]

[smoky quest]

about being a human or about being surprised?

[spark cobalt]

About being it's a human thing.

It's like you open up your eyes just a little and you're like holy shit this is so cool. But people tunnel vision on pay and never get to enjoy what they plan on doing for the rest of their life.

[smoky quest]

meh, some people are interested in completely different thing.

no one is perfect enough to like what I like

[spark cobalt]

Like today I put on my first VR headset ever. Super fucking amazing.

[drowsy scaffold]

yo guys wassup

[meager harbor]

Hi guys, I'm new to Python, about 2 months exposed on it. Any advice for a beginner like me? thanks

[spark cobalt]

Do something you're interested in. Too many things you can do with Python...

[smoky quest]

advice about?

[smoky quest]

And while for some it would be amazing, for some others it would be boring and useless

[spark cobalt]

So depressing.

[meager harbor]

Which frameworks should I focus on and what are the things that I should know to land on a job that is python related.
I love automating things tho and uhh, would also like to learn about web development

[smoky quest]

If you are in high school or college, a CS degree is best!
Beyond that, https://roadmap.sh/ has a good list of skills to demonstrate

[meager harbor]

I graduated with engineering degree but I'm going for a cs career atm.
And Ill check the link that you sent, looks very helpful for me. ><

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[meager harbor]

Thank you! more power for this community.

[nocturne frost]

i am new to python, if i want to make it as a career, where should I start at the beginning?

[clear loom]

Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online: https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc

If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-osiE80TeTskrapNbzXhwoFUiLCjGgY7

For a fantastic introduction to programming in general, which includes learning about both C and Python as well as data structures and algorithms, I highly recommend Harvard’s free online course, CS50: Introduction to Computer Science: https://pll.harvard.edu/course/cs50-introduction-computer-science

If you want a more Python-based approach and are already familiar with programming, then Harvard's CS50: Introduction to Programming with Python is an excellent resource: https://cs50.harvard.edu/python/2022/

credits to the glorious @vast shoal for this list

[smoky quest]

if you are in high school, middle school or college age, then aim for a CS degree

[nocturne frost]

thx for advices

[brisk pumice]

français ?

[smoky quest]

!rule 4

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[high swan]

is there anything like static variable in python like we have in c plus plus

[graceful mason]

this isn't career related

[knotty grove]

Why is it so hard to find your first internship or job in the tech world 😢

[mortal wedge]

Because experience is what most people find to be the most important and when applying for internships/first jobs nobody has any so you have a mass quantity of applicants with essentially the same level of experience.

[spark cobalt]

With that being said, there are many ways to make it easier and improve your odds over other candidates. Networking being a huge one that I see people neglect.

[digital fjord]

what I have seen work fairly often is to go to less popular talks and conferences in person and talk with the people in the audience, that at least gets you an interview. But YMMW.

[gray lava]

Hello

I'm soon going college and will be choosing Information Technology, what do I need to start reviewing, memorizing and practicing? Is there something you want to recommend what IT role should be I go to as I beginner? Although I'm thinking going in Cyber security :>

Please help me 😭💓🙏

[gritty rivet]

Don't worry, you'll find out when you get there. Just learn whatever interests you for now

[buoyant seal]

Disclaimer: I am not in CyberSecurity, i am backend dev/DevOps engineer

Tried to build out of curiosity some kind of map

graph TD
    Software_Developer --> Backend_developer
    Software_Developer --> DevOps_engineer
    System_Administrator --> DevOps_engineer
    DevOps_engineer --> DevSecOps
    CyberSecurity --> DevSecOps
    Linux_System_Administrator --> CyberSecurity
    Backend_developer --> DevOps_engineer
    Backend_developer --> CyberSecurity
    Software_Developer --> CyberSecurity
    CyberSecurity --> CyberSecurityManager
    CyberSecurity --> RoleCyberSecAnalyst
    DevSecOps --> CloudCyberArchitect
    CloudCyberArchitect[job role: Cloud Cyber Security Architect]
    CyberSecurity --> PenTester
    PenTester[job role: Pen Tester]
    RoleCyberSecAnalyst[job role: Cyber Security Analyst]
    DevOps_engineer --> SRE
    CyberSecurity --> NonWebSecurity
    CyberSecurity --> SRE_CyberSecurity
    SRE --> SRE_CyberSecurity
    SRE --> CyberSecurityManager
    Management --> CyberSecurityManager
    SRE_CyberSecurity[job role: Incident Resnponse Analyst]
    CyberSecurityManager[job role: Cyber Security Lead]

If we google roadmaps for cybersecurity
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/cyber-security-roadmap-in-2022--602567625158443468/
https://twitter.com/hackinarticles/status/1462042273646972932
https://www.sans.org/cyber-security-skills-roadmap/

• got jobs at indeed.com
  https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=cybersecurity&l=&from=searchOnHP&vjk=51bff0c3f84814e6

Role sources:
Insident response analyst:
https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=cybersecurity&start=10&pp=gQAPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB6mP01wAsAQBlHHDD8QGZLXZYIQNepYou__iDTqTrQPaOXt0fgRNzkV1lKdM-pJxG85oAAA&vjk=55f042b504d8bccf
Cyber Analyst:
https://www.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=9d133c69ee923560&fccid=aeb15e43a6800b9d&vjs=3
PenTester:
https://www.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=ccdf0bdf4a9fd463&fccid=bd916138c6247c6b&vjs=3
CyberArchitect:
https://www.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=be9b0ae2a48bd80f&fccid=aeb15e43a6800b9d&vjs=3

(used tool: https://mermaid-js.github.io/mermaid-live-editor ) (quite good one as it allows drawing any charts as a code, there are different rendering/deployment methods are available) (for example drawing database table schemes (also known as Entity Relation Diagrams))

Fixed: missed one connection from CyberSecurity to Incidence Response Analyst

P.S. technically encountered Application CyberSecurity and Hardware Cybersec roles, which all go into NonWebSecurity and from there into their own roles
But it would overload map too much with details, plus i suspect it is a bit less common path (or i am just too biased as web dev)

P.P.S. for Backend/DevOps/Architect roles stuff is present here https://roadmap.sh/
Green skils in this roadmap are Software Development -> https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap/blob/master/swe_backend.drawio.svg
(About management i have no info except knowing recommended books where to get started -> on the left of above roadmap Blue colored book)
P.P.P.S. obviously u need to know CyberSpecific topics too, they are mentioned in CyberSpecific roadmaps (which were mentioned above)

[fringe coyote]

guys

I need help. I have homework like this to do :

User enters x number. You need to print all the numbers from one to x, multiples of five and seven.

[buoyant seal]

Too much brain dead easy task, which can be solved in... two code lines in Python (Or may be in one? )
Read about Python syntax, how to have user input, and how to write loops/conditions (+optionally about comprehension lists)

[buoyant seal]

This book is enough for u. Learn.

[fringe coyote]

how can I download it

[buoyant seal]

https://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Python-Modern-Computing-Packages/dp/1492051365
Amazon, Kindle
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/introducing-python-2nd/9781492051374/
O'reilly subscription
https://www.ebooks.com/en-rs/book/detail/209884598/
Some kind of online shops
Or 🏴‍☠️ 😛

[fringe coyote]

I found It on zlibrary and it's freeeeee

already downloading

thank you so much

[delicate bane]

just wanted to add this resource to your list in case you havent seen it https://www.cyberseek.org/pathway.html

[buoyant seal]

Nice one. Quite matching my roadmap made on a spot for good percentage
(I am not too much interested in cybersec xD, well, just for loolz necessarities to know. Security is kind of needed to be known by everyone at the level of Backend/DevOps engineer/Architect)

[delicate bane]

tbh i feel the same even tho i am just a DS

i took one cybersec class back in school and still enjoyed it

[buoyant seal]

kind of thinking about security again. I think in most cases it finishes for us at the moment: Having all insecure stuff in private networks of cloud provider without exposure to public network
Then it is way easier to make sure API gateway is secure... and that's basically the only point of security needed Frontend is usually secure just from having secure backend

[vapid jay]

.

[tacit pagoda]

'Hello'

[sour tartan]

@elder basin this is a good place to talk about careers etc

[elder basin]

does your job require python

[brave matrix]

ok grandpa

[spark cobalt]

Mostly for automation.

[smoky quest]

Let's keep the discussions civil and respectful

[elder basin]

whats ur job role

[brave matrix]

you said you're 18, do you plan to go to college in the near future?

[elder basin]

hes making six figures next year why would he go college bro

[brave matrix]

or is it useless if already have real world experience

[spark cobalt]

I work for small company. So everyone's part of one team and have the same role. People eventually touch every part of the system. Flat hierarchy system

[brave matrix]

will defintely help if he wants to get onto the executive part of the business

[spark cobalt]

Money isn't the only goal in life. If I feel like there are things I can't learn on my own and only through college, then I'd go to college

[elder basin]

yeh i get u

[spark cobalt]

Don't limit your learning to 8 hours a day. So much in the world that's fascinating

[elder basin]

how did you get your job? like did you learn python from a young age or sum

[spark cobalt]

Started 2 years ago.

[spark cobalt]

Cumulation of a bunch of strategies to limit the aspect of luck: networking, applying in person, applying to thousands of jobs, having resume reviewed by local developers and managers, etc.

Hours of calls with recruiters, etc.

[spark cobalt]

Just become 10x

[elder basin]

You're mad smart and mature for your age

tryna be like u big bro

[spark cobalt]

Either way I'm doing this path just cuz I love programming. If I wanted to do safe and easy high money route I'd probably go to college.

Pay doesn't matter for me. I'm working and having fun and learning fuckloads everyday while being paid anything is a blessing in itself. Just got lucky I got in a more wealthy startup

[elder basin]

When did you start learning to program. I'm just a beginner to python and started 2 days ago- how many hours of self learning should I be doing if I'm in college, because I want to be a software engineer in python after I graduate

[elder basin]

Hopefully my mindset changes like yours

[spark cobalt]

Started junior year of HS. That was COVID year so day and night programming everyday. Then senior year committed full time commitment to programming as well while also juggling band and school. Almost didn't graduate lol

[smoky quest]

Going to college will be the most straightforward route with the most opportunities.
@spark cobalt is awesome but they are also the exception, not the rule.

[elder basin]

I'm in college rn 💀 doing compsci

[spark cobalt]

There's no escaping time investment needed. Imo the stories online of people getting a job in like 6 months is fake af

Yeah was at a party to celebrate me and 2 other people getting jobs last month with connections. Everyone making fun that I'm gonna have 0 friends and 0 gf

Everyone in workplace is 10+ years older. There's a lot of drawbacks with this plan lmao

Was writing up cons for this path and came with 10 cons, and 1 pro. And the only pro I could think of is you save some time

[elder basin]

Lol as long as you're following your passion who cares- friends will come and go, you'll make friends there

[smoky quest]

Also don't target a language, target a domain instead. Languages are just tools and means to an end, not the end themselves

[spark cobalt]

Everyone's a workaholic here

[elder basin]

idk the difference

[smoky quest]

python = screwdriver.
A screw driver could be used to build space ships at NASA or repair a car at your local garage

What companies will care about is whether you can build space ships, not the screwdriver or hammer

[elder basin]

damn

what domain do faang companies use

[smoky quest]

everything

[spark cobalt]

Either way, everything is made with multiple languages. Becoming a "Python developer" would still ask that you knew other things so you can understand how other parts of this machine work.

[smoky quest]

from cooks, to janitors to compilers to drones to VR to AR to frontend to backend

[elder basin]

so should i focus on other languages as well? in my college course this year we're doing C, Java and python

[smoky quest]

so you are asking if you should focus on a hammer or a screwdriver

[spark cobalt]

No, like recursive said target a domain

[elder basin]

😭 , we're doing other stuff too like computer architecture, cybersecurity

[smoky quest]

yeah and these are awesome!
Find something you enjoy. So try different domains and see what sticks

[still condor]

Typically there's a lot of different domains. Google Drive deals with files, permissions, etc.; while Google Mail deals with messages, spam, filters, folders.

[elder basin]

artificial intelligence looks exciting

[still condor]

One thing that's pretty sad is that when companies are publishing job postings, they are explicitly looking for a screwdriver user with extensive Phillips screw experience in production

So even though what you're suggesting might be beneficial, the kind of developer many companies are encouraging is a screwdriver master.

[smoky quest]

We are talking in very generic terms here. But in general, they would specify the role they are looking for and then list specific tooling/stack. If the ad doesn't specify if they are looking a frontend or backend engineer, there is something very wrong

[still condor]

That's also an interview disease. Instead of asking something useful many companies will beat you to death with trivia questions

[still condor]

Specifying the stack is a good idea, but what I often see is: "required experience of at least 2 years in Python in production, with Django or aiohttp"

[elder basin]

this is usually how they list what they want in the UK for jobs i just googled one

[still condor]

Maybe it's more of a thing with "junior" positions though

[elder basin]

for junior python developer

is SQL easier than python

[still condor]

ah yes, a good understanding of the Waterfall principle 😂

[elder basin]

what is that 🤣

[spark cobalt]

HR moment

[still condor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model

basically, it's a process where you first design your entire program in minute detail, then implement it, only then test it, and then it's done

[elder basin]

how do u have a good understanding of that, isn't that just common knowledge

[still condor]

That's a terrible way of making software

[elder basin]

is it

idk anything about software 💀

what's a good python book btw?

[still condor]

It is, because it completely lacks any notion of feedback

[elder basin]

why would a tech company use that principle then? 💀

[smoky quest]

predictability in the execution. To be fair, a lot of agile end up like mini-waterfall

[still condor]

I'd recommend "Automate the boring stuff with Python" if you're totally new:
https://automatetheboringstuff.com/2e/chapter0/
or if you want a general introduction to programming (not in Python but in Racket) check out How to Design Programs:
https://htdp.org/

[still condor]

well, yes, it makes it more predictable in theory

[elder basin]

ty

[still condor]

but perhaps in many projects it gives you the illusion of control

that you know everything in advance.

[smoky quest]

projects will also most often require coordination between multiple teams as well, which have to deal with prioritization and may want some heads up

[delicate bane]

some mission-critical stuff has to be created without feedback and thus looks similar to waterfall

[elder basin]

Start my first project in January

[spare hedge]

Hey all, I needed some advice related to what course I should choose as I'm about to apply to university.
So my local university offers the following specializations in bs Computer Science: game engineering, data analytics, cloud computing etc.
Out of these mentioned specializations which would be best to pursue? in terms of job availability, pay, demand, stress level?

Would really appreciate any suggestions/advices on the same.

[spark cobalt]

It's 99% gonna pay good no matter what. For better QOL, just do what you're more interested/fascinated in. For demand not sure though.

[smoky quest]

it depends on the jobs in your area, the pay in your country, your industry and what you enjoy the most.

In general, optimizing for lower stress goes against optimizing for pay

[spare hedge]

I reside in Canada

my subject of interests imo is game engineering,

I enjoy programming, so working hard in that field won't be an obstacle I suppose

[smoky quest]

gaming is notorious for being a bad working environment. But it's also a popular industry in Canada

[spare hedge]

yes, that's why I was not too sure.. however what would y'all suggest b/w these: game engineering, data analytics, cloud computing?

[smoky quest]

Whichever you enjoy the most

Also Canada is pretty big. Vancouver's scene is pretty different from Montreal's. Not even mentioning Toronto's

[spark cobalt]

If you wanna report it, ask a final time through email so everything is logged and send to someone that can do some serious actions.

What the fuck

If you don't wanna bear the burden of having the deal with him, ask how your classmates are learning with him being like this.

Perhaps there are study groups that can help you learn the concepts

Is this a public college?

Lot of bureaucracy that may be involved (would depend on the school), so I'd play it safe. It'd be probably more impactful if a bunch of students consolidated evidence to show for his lack of care and signed a petition.

If the department chair doesn't care, add that to your evidence and bring it a layer up.

[serene holly]

Kindly recommend sources for python novices

[spark cobalt]

People seem to recommend the automate things with Python book. I've only recently (like a couple months) started reading through books to learn stuff so I can't attest for Python related things other than like testing.

[serene holly]

Even videos like which channels to watch.although I prefer blogs

[spark cobalt]

I completely converted away from Youtube videos and Medium blogs. They're inefficient for me.

Youtube/Medium blogs can be good if it's describing something specific. But things like "12 hour guide to Python" or "24 hour guide to some framework" just waste a lot of time.

Books imo generally are better at giving high level ideas, and would cultivate a "programming mindset" better than a video can.

[karmic sail]

Books are great, I usually take a book and if I feel a concept is still not clear I watch extra material on YouTube for that specific thing.

[spark cobalt]

And of course, you can reference parts of books faster than a video. And reading is significantly faster than watching a video. And for most cases, reading provides better retention than watching a video.

Yeah generally for specific things that books explain poorly, just getting someone else's opinion on it online is generally good enough to grasp it. Whether you need more example implementations, etc.

Depends on level and what you want to read about

[karmic sail]

I started with Automate The Boring Stuff, then Learn Python The Hard Way

[spark cobalt]

If you find a book online that's interesting to you and can't seem to get the PDF for it, just let me know.

[karmic sail]

for algorithms Im reading Grokking Algorithms, its great

[spark cobalt]

I have 99.9999% of PDFs for anything programming related.

[serene holly]

On testing part which platform can I use to practice?

[spark cobalt]

Wdym platform?

[serene holly]

Can I kindly have the one by bill lubanovic -introducing python.it was recommended by someone in here

[spark cobalt]

Gotcha gimme a sec

I should make a new Google Drive account for this. Having all this shit finna get my whole account locked

[spark cobalt]

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/1PTQOW6JNOotqk2c2dituk0SH_mcVBEQC

[serene holly]

Thank you

Got this just a minute ago: https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/

[spark cobalt]

For CS, generally yes.

[astral widget]

Hello Python dev

[dawn flicker]

School or a great resume with a lot of history will get you there. It is true that generally you need a CS degree but many folks like me don't have one and are working in the field.

[gilded valley]

Not finishing after starting would be a very silly decision

[near ocean]

What do you work as/with and how long did it take you to get there

[viral blade]

Which language should I learn after Python?

[dawn flicker]

Digital Architect for an aerospace company 15 years

[near ocean]

Neat, so you dont have a CS degree? Do you have other degrees?

[dawn flicker]

No degree just started working after highschool

[near ocean]

Did you struggle with finding your first job? I imagine it got easier after that