career-advice

[gilded valley]

Data science with less/different programming and no ml, and no capability to work with e.g video data

[sleek kraken]

Would love some advice please.

Been offered 3-4 possible positions in QA. I just need to send them my CV. Thing is I am still learning. I am about 1/3 way through my Python Full Stack course. So even though I was told to send a CV now because it will take them months to look at it (puts me closer to the end of my studies) I am not confident I'll be able to pull of QA.

Thoughts? anything I might need to know/do before hand other than my studies?

[near ocean]

Do it, this sounds like imposter syndrome talking

[sleek kraken]

meaning i don't feel like i can do it i.e i feel like an imposter?

also i'm gonna send a CV anyway since i got one already and it just needs minor updates since i sent one last year.

wanted to see if i could improve my chances of doing things the right way.

[near ocean]

Yes, that feeling is a lie, just send the CV
You dont have to wait for your CV to look better, you could just send them an updated one later down the line

(But send one now so your name is in there)

[brittle crown]

I recently joined college and chose CS as my major subject. We were told that from this year onwards studies will be research based. We've just to study Computer Fundamentals in our 1st semester. I've no idea how is research work done. Could anyone assist me how to do research and how are research papers written?
And could anyone please lemme know about what's research and how to do it as a high school or undergraduate student?

[gilded valley]

What do your professors say when you ask them that question?

[brittle crown]

We just attended few lectures. And the professor who told us to study like that hasn't any class in our batch yet.

[brittle crown]

I thought of asking it in the community to get some help. Hope someone will be here to help and guide me.

[delicate bane]

also if you need to deploy a model into production as a feature (i.e. recommender system)

etc.

[vapid jay]

La france 🙃

[gilded valley]

Ask him, not us. He is the best placed to give guidance because he is the one setting the parameters of the course

[lapis wind]

Tbf that doesnt seem unreasonable. A couple of my friends have the same or similar setup where they get set stuff almost as a pre-reading and then go through it afterwards, so that people at least have some original idea in what's being discussed

[brittle crown]

Okay.

[vapid jay]

Hello everyone

[nimble salmon]

guys what steps does one need to take to specialise in the computer vision field. ( provided we know the basics about Deep Learning like ANN CNN RNN) how should we continue and what concept/materials does one need to study

[near ocean]

Multiple degrees

[woeful spruce]

I think that is kind of rare. However, for an internship role, I imagine it is more common

[delicate bane]

more common with internships/entry-level roles yeah

[delicate bane]

what is your end goal? just studying for fun or to land a job?

bc mariosis has a point that you typically need a higher-level degree for an industry job in that area or publications

[nimble salmon]

Long term career I’m currently just a student, wanna divert into this field in the end

[delicate bane]

you should focus on getting a cs degree from uni first. through that, you should be able to get on some research projects regarding computer vision with your professors. after that, you can reassess from there whether you need a graduate degree (masters/phd) or not...or even if you still like computer vision (since you might discover a different area you like more)

[vapid jay]

Specializing? CS masters, if not a PhD.

I recommend starting by reading a couple papers on computer vision and implementing them

for example, SIFT

while SIFT isn't state of the art anymore, I think it's a good basis for an understanding of how the DNN stuff is actually working

[uncut mist]

How hard is it to start earning remotely with CS? I am freshman, and want to raise funds for my masters

[near ocean]

About 0seconds, all you need is a remote job

[uncut mist]

What are the steps/ways to do it?

Do you need a degree? Or making a good portfolio is enough?

[near ocean]

Find remote job
Apply by sending CV and cover letter
Pass interview stages
You have a job

Theres nothing inherent about remote positions that block out graduates or juniors

[uncut mist]

Oh ok thanks

[vapid jay]

passing interviews might be hard if you're an incoming freshman (implying you may have no background at all)

[smoky vine]

what's the difference between software engineering and computer science degree

[true harness]

software engineering is a career. a degree is a degree

[buoyant seal]

Computer science degree tries to teach software engineering

[gilded valley]

Computer science and software engineering degrees are usually relatively similar. The high level difference is that CS is more abstract and deals with the fundamental theory of computing whereas software engineering aims to set you up to build and design real world software.

There are pros and cons to both, but it's very university/course specific

[buoyant seal]

Making conclusion from answers, software engineering can be career or degree. Pick whatever suits u and exists in your country xD

[gilded valley]

Yeah, it's very circumstantial as to which is the better choice

[acoustic depot]

Hii there

[delicate bane]

yeah there are some careers where a CS degree might make more sense to have over a program that offers a Software Engineering degree (more uncommon to find); for example, cybersecurity

ideally, if you know you want to pursue cybersecurity ahead of time, you might find a program that is strong in cybersecurity

[gilded valley]

I'm not sure. I think in general specialised degrees are a bit of a honey trap - they can leave people in this grey with meh or bad specialist knowledge and a lower floor of general ability. You end up in a better position if you take the general degree and specialise in your own time and via optional units.

[near ocean]

I think specialization should be left for advanced degrees, a couple 3rd year optional modules dont really do much

[delicate bane]

this is what i would recommend for most tbh

[delicate bane]

that makes much more sense. right.

the only issue we run into is sometimes we get into this "generalist" bloat of classes, so thats something to also avoid

[ivory sluice]

please keep messages on topic for #career-advice

ty

[barren marsh]

How crucial/important is knowing how to work with cloud services for a data engineer? I will be starting a graduate position in a month as a data engineer and i dont think ill be working with gcp or azure etc. how important is it for the development of my career if i want to go into data/software engineering?

[woeful spruce]

Fairly crucial these days. Honestly though, it isn't that hard. Whether it is on a cloud or on-premises, the end goals rarely change.

If you are new to the industry though, I don't see how anyone can expect too much if you. I think AWS and GCP offer free training modules. So you could be set there.

AWS is definitely the most popular of the big 3 though. Lots of large orgs seem to love it.

I think it is a bit overrated, personally, but we do live in a copycat world where companies just want to follow 'industry standards'

[delicate bane]

pick up some basic cloud skills like jason said. you could do it.

[analog turtle]

i think it's harder to run data infrastructure on "just a server" like in the old days, compared to something like a web app. and another vote here for "yes you need to know it but it's not that hard", you should try to do a project where you actually deploy something with a cloud service if possible, ideally also with a database involved

[marble pike]

this might be slightly off topic but how many python devs are knowledgeable about networking? I'm a network engineer learning python so i can do some basic automation but i was curious how often devs have to learn my side of things to do their jobs. "Network Developer" is becoming more and more common and its obvious to most network engineers that were gonna have to learn python sooner or later.

[woeful spruce]

That's fair. For web apps, I agree, it is practical. For small businesses, it is also definitely worth it. It really depends on usage and what services. Storage is cheap, but, if it is used for ML or DS, then not so much (although that is probably expensive regardless)

[summer roost]

some? I'm a software developer who got a CCNA in high school before deciding on a career path and who has on occasion used wireshark to diagnose a work issue - oh, and I worked in a lab that was doing mesh networking research back in college.

it's hard to quantify "how many", though. 🤷‍♂️

[fluid fern]

fuck docker and its buggy compose module

[buoyant seal]

use docker-compose (v1), it is awesome.

[toxic dune]

Quick question, I am trying to score an internship, is it true that all I need is DSA knowledge to solve leetcode, programming concept knowledge (OOP, Networking, etc), and fluency in a programming language?

I was told projects aren't that important and I will learn software dev. on the fly when I pass the interview, so I can just go through project tutorials and make sure I can understand them to put on the resume

[fluid fern]

Been there already, oh yeah fuck my company for saying lets use netflix conductor with an sql database, this shit is horribly maintained

[buoyant seal]

i think u a in a wrong channel tbh. u should probably go to devrant for your usage case: https://devrant.com/feed

[fluid fern]

Huh, that's interesting never seen this before

[deep flame]

quick question I just wanna ask on whats the first step or what are the things to do to get into cyber security?

[toxic dune]

https://github.com/DFIRmadness/5pillars/blob/master/5-Pillars.md

[sudden kestrel]

Hey guys I want be a programmer do I need ict or computer science ?

[buoyant seal]

What is ict, and country?

[tidal gazelle]

for software engineering universities, does anyone know if there are some where you can apply if you have not completed year 13, but have passed year 12?

[gritty rivet]

What country? I've never heard of "year 13".

[tidal gazelle]

I think it may be in some countries only

But there is. Year/Grade 13 is the last year in my school where A levels is done

[nimble jackal]

Is it a good idea to take business, computing and maths for A levels, hopefully for a programming related career?
I've heard business can often be deemed as inadequate preparation for some university courses

[lapis wind]

UK has year 12 and 13 for A levels

[lapis wind]

Generally speaking, not really. Because at year 12 the best you have are AS levels, but that technically isn't officially given to you as an accreditation.

The best case scenario is you could do an apprenticeship which is aimed at people coming out of GCSEs as a level 4 apprenticeship. But they are incredibly rare and generally don't really offer you a great entry to the industry. You're definitely better just finishing A levels first.

[gilded valley]

If you wanted to do that you needed to do either accelerated a-levels in 1y, or just to have loved somewhere where university at 17 is the norm

[gilded valley]

England and Wales do. Scotland is substantially different, not sure about NI

In Scotland university a year earlier but for a year longer is the standard

[lapis wind]

NI has a slightly similar system but they do their A level equivalents about a year earlier IIRC. So they finish by 17-18

[tidal gazelle]

Are those rare? University at 17

[gilded valley]

It's country specific.

[tidal gazelle]

Do you know if its something in Australia?

[gilded valley]

But no a levels means no qualifications means nowhere will take you

You needed to have done something different in y12

[lapis wind]

I think generally speaking, The UK and places with a levels do have a slightly easier bar to entry for the industry unlike the US. But generally you still need the minimum grades you're expected to get at 18

Whether that be A levels or equivalent qualifications

[tacit hazel]

windows application or backend developer

which one is better for working as freelancer

[sacred shore]

back-end developer I'd say

but front-end would drastically increqse your chances

[near ocean]

Why freelancer and not permanent work?

[sacred shore]

I'm still a student, not many opportunities in my country

I'd looking for work in foreign countries, but I have no idea how I'm supposed to get the necessary documents without physically going there, it's my main focus these days. If anyone has an idea, then please, enlighten me!

for freelancing however, I opened an auto-entrepreneur status a week ago, which allows me to legally work as a freelancer

[peak halo]

!ban 722413608297824347 First message after returning for prior advertising ban is more advertising.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @shut night permanently.

[uncut mist]

How useful is coding as a skill? I basically have to learn it because I like remote work with not much communication(like talking/performing for clients)

[peak halo]

professional programming is not a solitary thing. even if you're working remotely, you'll still be talking to teammates every day. is it specifically client-facing interactions that you want to avoid?

also, pretty much everyone who answers questions in this channel do programming for a living, so if you ask "is coding useful?", everyone here is going to say "yes".

[uncut mist]

Like everyone says coding is a useful skill nowadays, so I will learn it as a hobby or side stuff

[peak halo]

yes, because programming pays reasonably well, but even if you're not a programmer/developer per se, programming can improve your workflow in many computer-facing jobs.

[buoyant seal]

even when we aren't communicating face to face, or chat to chat
we are expressing ourselves with our code, and writing it first in a way that it would communicate in as clear way as possible to other developers (and to ourselves in a future 🙂 ) what we wished to write.

And... communicating is also necessary to get out of someone, what they really wish to acomplish. Coding is just a tool. We need to solve business problems people have.

[near ocean]

This isnt any job that exists
Remote or not you'll still have to talk to clients, employers, colleagues

[torn jetty]

Hello everyone, I recently completed a workflow that is causing disruption of a current process within my company. I explain the process at high level to non technical people. A coworker (not quite a domain expert but a higher rank) **insists ** in checking the code to "understand" what is doing. This person does not know python or programming at all. I personally do not want to put myself in a position of presenting my code to this person, and I thought about doing a flowchart with the logic (example below). does anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this situation or tools to accomplish this?

[gilded valley]

Use the flow chart to aid in the explanation of the code, if the output is print statements, then it seems like it's not doing anything that requires massive levels of complexity.

ah - only just properly read your message and saw that the flowchart was an example, not necessarily the real thing

[delicate bane]

focusing on diagrams would be better for non-technical people for sure. they wont really understand the code

[gilded valley]

either way - use diagrams to walk through the code with the guy - if it's decent code and you put effort into the diagrams, it ought to be explainable

[torn jetty]

Yes. This is what I think. Are there any tools to do this? I remember seen something in Microsoft Word but I didn't know what the pros use or if there is anything specific for this purpose.

*seeing

[gilded valley]

https://diagrams.net

[torn jetty]

cool. Thanks so much!

[uncut mist]

Oh ok thanks for letting me know, it is that I am not good with speaking and get anxious while doing so, also some language barrier

[woeful spruce]

I wouldn't suggest trying to get a programming job just to WFH. If you don't enjoy it, somewhat, it is a mentally taxing job.

There are other WFH jobs, but, regardless, you will at least minimally interact with someone

[uncut mist]

No, the other reason is coding is a useful skill everyone is saying, esp my peers

[delicate bane]

as long as you like it, and youre not just following the crowd

[uncut mist]

Does having a degree makes it easier to get a remote job?

[smoky quest]

It's a high tech job, so degrees certainly go a long way in helping with your career and jobs

[uncut mist]

Even if it is an online degree?

[smoky quest]

It only matters if it's a BS/MS/phd. Doesn't matter where you got it

[vapid jay]

Hey, it there any discord.py server help coding?

[gilded valley]

This is not the right channel. Ask in #python-discussion

[spark zinc]

hey all i have a coding interview coming up, what should i use to crash course myself on the basic algorithms?

[true harness]

cracking the coding interview

[topaz rivet]

where to report ppl here?

[ivory sluice]

please send a DM to @severe widget

[late steppe]

Hello everyone

[chrome cedar]

So I've been working as a sort-of sysadmin for some very old tech/infrastructure at one company
Friend who recently left the same position got in at AWS and got me in touch with the recruiter he worked with to get that position
Got through the first interview that was 1 hour, got high praises
3 weeks later, had a 5 hour interview (1 person per hour, get a 1 hour break halfway through) and felt that I did really well with at least 3 of the 4 interviewers
Was really proud of my answers for the programming interview where I felt like I aced the prompt any any questions the interviewer had
Had to wait anxiously for a whole week to get a response, was stuck waiting for Amazon to get back to me and having mounting pressure to accept an offer elsewhere who had a hard deadline for me
Got the call today that I've got the AWS SDE II position and the pay is absolutely insane, going into contract negotiations either tomorrow or next week

Long story short, sometimes you really do just need some crappy baseline experience to pad your resume to get into the big leagues

[modest panther]

is it higher than 200k?

[delicate bane]

congrats dude

[chrome cedar]

I can give ya all the numbers
Original 6 month contract-to-hire position at my first job was $45k with no insurance or benefits
Got promoted to full-time after about 20 months (rather than the agreed upon 6 month contract due to "company merger" stuff) to $82K salary
Co-worker left the job to work at General Dynamics for $120K, and my company gave me the regular yearly 3% raise and another 6% raise to put me up to $90K as an incentive to keep me
Got this AWS SDE II position which is $165K-$170K base salary, with expected yearly bonuses and stocks giving me a first year compensation package of $210K-$220K
Former co-worker got into Amazon with slightly lower numbers, but they're legit. His first year sign-on bonus is $36K and the 2nd year is $29K, with the amount of stocks they give you increase every year up to 4 years

[delicate bane]

nice nice

dont wanna be a downer but i heard amazon has a certain...reputation

[modest panther]

you definitely earn that money

that may be a good thing for certain people lol but TAKE THE MONEYS AND DONT LOOK BACK! REMEMBER IF YOU LOOK BACK YOU WILL TURN TO STONE

[delicate bane]

but honestly it probably depends on which team you get assigned to

so take those rumors with a grain of salt

[chrome cedar]

Listen I know that working for FAANG is like working for the devil, none of them are morally good or even barely neutral
But it's either I work for one company that has no morals but pays poorly or I work for another that pays well

[delicate bane]

no no its not about faang at all. its about amazon specifically...

[chrome cedar]

Company I'm leaving is Cigna, I originally contracted with Express Scripts but they were bought by Cigna pretty much the moment I got contracted

[delicate bane]

as long as you have a high paying job that you enjoy, thats all that matters in the end

[serene kindle]

depends on direct manager more than company

[smoky quest]

Also the fact that he reached the bar of the typical swe now. Which means the next job will pay as much, if not more.

Amazon also pays a bit less on the cash side and their stock is backloaded because they know most people leave before they fully vest :p

But the experience will be great

[serene kindle]

problem isn't morals (they're not breaking the law) but the workload (burnout)

[smoky quest]

breaking laws is not strictly tied to morals. You can do immoral things without breaking laws

[delicate bane]

my friend told me how his friends there were doing crazy days

[serene kindle]

yeah toxic people suck but its not possible to avoid toxic people by avoiding entire company unless its small company

[delicate bane]

working till 4am but still had to get up for 10a calls

dunno how much of that is true vs. exaggerated so again take that with a grain of salt

[serene kindle]

yeah managers will push to infinite workload if you let them

[smoky quest]

bad managers*

[modest panther]

yeah smart managers understand sustainability

[serene kindle]

i mean that just have to accept the risk of pushing back

[chrome cedar]

Yeah definitely going to look into what teams I'm entering into
Right now I have a "genera" offer, where I negotiate my salary / bonuses / stocks, and then I meet with individual managers for different teams for them to essentially pitch what their team does, and I choose which I'm interested in and go from there

[modest panther]

yeah sometimes people literally do nothing for days though

[serene kindle]

i was fine with that, doing nothing for days and then doing a lot, balancing it out

[delicate bane]

thats good. choose wisely, best of luck my dude

[chrome cedar]

I've been good about setting realistic expectations with my existing projects, problem was my managers at Cigna have all been short-term-oriented where they want results ASAP and don't really care how the solution is built

[serene kindle]

that's just how managers work, it's their nature

[smoky quest]

that's not how management work and that's a pretty bad advice to give here

[chrome cedar]

That's how bad management works

[serene kindle]

i mean in reality what would you expect, if you were good enough to work for some elite manager you would already be there

[modest panther]

lol "it's their nature" This is the thought process of a national socialist

people improve and learn... even managers

[smoky quest]

dilbert is a work of fiction, not meant to be taken literally

[modest panther]

or they won't learn and live a painful life

[chrome cedar]

I told my then-manager that an automation project they wanted me to do would take roughly 9 months as a solo dev who has to create a full-stack app from scratch
They told me to do it in Ansible and use Ansible Tower and that I had 3 months
The Ansible version they used was also old, unreliable, and would often not even show me debugging logs for at least 10 minutes
I rewrote the whole thing in Python and made a basic HTML/CSS/JS jQuery frontend and it performs better in all aspects

[modest panther]

no tests though right?

[chrome cedar]

Express Scripts' management (now called Cigna Health Services after the acquisition) are all similarly terrible - my personal advice is not to work there

[modest panther]

never seen someone write tests for jquery front end

[chrome cedar]

I didn't write frontend tests, the moment the app was in a functional state they made me move onto other things, or just go back to supporting the other old af apps

[modest panther]

lmaoo thats why you need to support old apps because they don't write tests

[serene kindle]

yes that's how it is normally

[smoky quest]

that feels quite dysfunctional

[serene kindle]

that's just reality and the kind of decisions they would make

[smoky quest]

that's just a badly managed team

[chrome cedar]

I wanted to move it from a parallel-ssh setup to a REST API thing with Flask (which I was already using for the backend) but never got to releasing it

[chrome cedar]

Like I said, Cigna Health Services is terrible

[smoky quest]

that explains a lot from my interactions with cigna, last time one of my employer had cigna :p

[serene kindle]

congrats on the AWS job, just don't quit after meeting your manager

i mean if that was bad to you then good luck at Amazon

[chrome cedar]

I was about to accept an offer at Cisco that paid more than Cigna but less than AWS, so I had already put in my 2 weeks

[serene kindle]

Amazon is legendary for its managers...

[smoky quest]

yeah don't go to cisco

[chrome cedar]

I would only to get away from Cigna, they paid $132K

[serene kindle]

Well at least don't reject the cisco offer in case you really can't stand amazon

sounds like you'll go completely nuts at amazon most likely, since even people like me avoid amazon with heart and soul

[modest panther]

We can accept that cisco job and share the work and split the salary, but I don't like fraud 😦

[smoky quest]

if they got an offer from cisco and aws, they can get other interesting offers

[modest panther]

accept all the jobs

[chrome cedar]

I mean Cisco wanted a response ASAP and I made them wait, saying that I needed to talk with my manager to delay my response
If y'all want the Cisco job, it's for their certification automation team dealing with Python 2 and 3 and maybe some Java, I can pass your info on to them or vice-versa

[serene kindle]

good luck

[modest panther]

my state literally has 2% unemployment. We are over employed already

minnesota has 1.8 unemployment rate! Wow

[untold grove]

Can I get a job without a degree?

[peak halo]

depends on the job. but for most programming jobs, if you don't have professional experience doing something else, probably not.

and if you're a young person without professional experience, getting a degree is going to be a lot more straightforward than whatever convoluted path to employment you might concoct.

[untold grove]

I am very young for being a programmer

[untold grove]

what makes an intermediate/advanced python programmer?

[peak halo]

not sure what you mean. a lot of people start programming in their teens.

[peak halo]

any criteria I come up with will be arbitrary.

[untold grove]

is it worth learning c++?

[peak halo]

is your actual question "what makes an employment-ready python programmer"?

[untold grove]

yeah.

[peak halo]

depends on what kind of development you want to do. I do not know C++.

[untold grove]

I want to do data analysis for a company

[peak halo]

depends on the job. most programming jobs that involve Python are not "python jobs". they're "web development jobs (where you use python, and other languages)" or "data analysis jobs (where you use python, and understand data analysis)"

[untold grove]

I see, Do you work in software engineering?

[peak halo]

you would almost certainly need a degree that teaches you how to do analysis.

[peak halo]

I'm an AI developer.

[untold grove]

I personally want to use AI to program robots

[untold grove]

I heard python is a good lang for ai

Thanks for your help.

[peak halo]

pretty much all of my work is in Python. but you get AI jobs because you know about AI, not because you know Python per se.

[untold grove]

I see

[chrome cedar]

As someone without a degree, I will tell you that it will be very, very hard
I only got a job by being referred to a recruiting company by a friend, and the hiring company took a chance on me
But after getting 3.5 years of experience and learning a bunch of things both in and out side of work, it's been a lot easier to get job offers

Python is one of the main languages for AI and Machine Learning through things like nltk, pytorch, tensorflow, and many other libraries, so it depends on what you want to do in that field

[low matrix]

For network engineering, is python the main language being used?

[chrome cedar]

What do you mean by network engineering? It's a very broad field

[vapid jay]

Geniuses do so in their 5 or 6 y of age and get burnout by the time they start their first internship

[vapid jay]

Not particularly. Do you mean as devops and such?

[gilded valley]

This is not true. Plenty of people just enjoy programming in the same way another person enjoys puzzles or reading books or running - burnout is by no means guaranteed or even necessarily likely

[vapid jay]

What do you think about doing programming on your free time when you do it as a full time job already, particularly for neurotypical people?

I have heard from many they began to hate it but im getting mixed answers from people on discord

[gilded valley]

Programming is no different to any other activity in this regard. People's feelings towards a thing sometimes change as they do more of the thing. Programming is not some psychological enigma.

[vapid jay]

Ive heard from people that they would do it even if they was working on it for 40 hours a week and they called my mindset toxic for seeing it as a job

[buoyant seal]

burnout is result of living in stress. identify and eliminate sources of stress, then there should be no burnouts.
well or at least ,make sure receiving more satisfaction than stress, and ensure walking a path that you will know will bring brighter future, with less stress and more satisfaction. More feeling security in a tomorrow day / month / year.

[gilded valley]

It's not toxic, you don't have to feel that way

[tidal gazelle]

What specific areas do "python software engineers" work in?

[near ocean]

You could work in a bunch of areas with python, its general purpose
Usually you see it in ML, automation, devops, backends, finance, etc

[worldly horizon]

just because you wouldn't do another 2 hours of python work after your job compared to others doesn't make your mindset "toxic." some people say it’s toxic to make themselves feel better than the other person.

[near ocean]

Why would you see it as a job tho? If its not for your work its not a job

[worldly horizon]

So if you went to google and did work for them, and not yourself, and you get a stipend for it, is that not a job regardless if you do it in your free time or not?

[near ocean]

Thats literally not the topic here
People can do whatever they want in their free time, if they wanna code then so be it, who cares

[worldly horizon]

Wdym I’m saying that it’s okay to see it as a job, because it is.

[near ocean]

If im coding up my personal blog in my spare time how is that a job

The question was whether people code in their free time, not whether they work a second job

[worldly horizon]

I thought it was if it was okay to look at coding as a job or not

[vapid jay]

They banned me from the server for suggesting them to code on work and or in school because of it

[near ocean]

Im not sure what point youre trying to make but it doesnt seem to be careers related anyway

[vapid jay]

May not be

[gilded valley]

This channel is not really the place to run over past arguments you've had

[shadow moss]

It's used by some network engineers for script. In general, Networking is diminishing career field. Various things have put power of Networking into hands of non networking IT people so you no longer need waves of people who know Cisco IOS.

[delicate bane]

like the cloud?

[lapis wind]

I think in generally unless you're working for the companies that are the people building the network infa itself, it's probably hard

[shadow moss]

Yep.

[weary sage]

hello ... where can i talk to to some dev about an idea?

[peak halo]

if it's a business idea, not here. otherwise, just say what you want to talk about.

[weary sage]

hehe... not busines tho.. just about building a possible solution

[peak halo]

are you going to keep making vague statements? what do you want to talk about?

@weary sage there are no channels on this server that are appropriate for your proposed topic. sorry

[weary sage]

seems like some hell here 😕

[peak halo]

this server is for talking about programming. not business ideas that happen to involve programming.

[weary sage]

okkk... but also, at the end... we all wanted to build something.... maybe i' worng.. maybe.. i got it

[true harness]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel: #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[peak halo]

I suppose you could discuss it in an OT channel, but if you try to recruit anyone to implement this idea, we won't allow that.

[worthy quiver]

Does anyone in here have any advice for me to get more endorsements on LinkedIn for Python and other skills?

[peak halo]

I don't really think those matter that much

[worthy quiver]

Yeah me either I just feel like it would make my profile stand out to hiring managers

[peak halo]

if they make your profile stand out to hiring managers, then they do matter. but I don't think that they have that effect.

[worthy quiver]

I just wonder how some people have so many, like are they geniuses or are they asking for them?

[peak halo]

it's definitely not because they're better than people who don't have them.

[worthy quiver]

I used to have a lot for CSS but it's not something that I'm particularly proud of so I deleted it lol

I think a lot of the ancillary business people just don't even understand things like Python on a deep enough level to endorse but they may have dabbled in HTML, CSS, etc so maybe that's why

[nimble jackal]

Is it a good idea to take business, computing and maths for A levels, to pursue a career in software development, or something similar?

[worthy quiver]

What type of software development do you want to do?

Computer Science degree is basically a combination of what you listed

But there are degrees in Software Engineering specifically too

[peak halo]

computer science isn't going to involve business.

[worthy quiver]

not sure what you mean? I have a CS degree and there were business prerequisites just like any degree and of course you need to know some business concepts in the real world to navigate software development...

[peak halo]

I have a CS degree, and never took a single business class

if your university wanted to have those requirements, I guess that's their prerogative. but CS has never been about business.

[true harness]

you had business prereqs? for what class lol

[delicate bane]

thats a very...unique program

[near ocean]

I had a business module as well

I thought it was pretty standard to have a business and professional writing module

[gilded valley]

I had some business analysis modules - but they were about requirements analysis etc rather than pure business

And data flow diagrams...

[true harness]

yeah, we have "General Education" requirements

[delicate bane]

this

we didnt call them business requirements

they were either called general education, core curriculum, etc.

requirements

[sacred shore]

all C.S degrees in my country involve business/law to some extent

[wary stirrup]

I have a BS in Chem, but I want to move into the CS field. I took a programming class my senior year and I really liked it which spurred the idea. Does anyone have any suggestions of which direction I should be going in? I don’t want to go back to school if I don’t have to.

[sacred shore]

just because you took one programming class doesn't mean you're going to enjoy C.S, especially when you study it (at least in my country they teach you a bunch of random, sometimes useless, stuff), you need to make sure you like it before you go into it

[wary stirrup]

In my programming class, we learned the fundamental programming concepts, including object programming. Used simple data structures and design algorithms. Used external (data related) libraries. And learned software engineering basic notions

I also did research in computational chemistry (Linux/Unix)

And also did an internship where we programmed arduino boards

[stoic niche]

I think you should check which techs employer demands to hire a programmer. After checking you will form a deeper understanding of what an employer asks from an employee.

[smoky quest]

In the EU country I studied in, there were the typical CS degree at the university with just pure CS, but there were also other CS degrees that included additional classes for people whose career would not just be about being an IC (ex: managing, being accountable for entire projects, starting your own company, etc.), and thus would include classes like project management, quality control, sales, communication, law, accounting, etc.

[delicate bane]

what country if you dont mind us asking

[delicate bane]

oh hey that sounds like it would be useful especially if you know you arent going the IC route

[smoky quest]

In that EU country, there is no IC route :p
You are expected to go into management

[delicate bane]

i see, i see

then that makes more sense

[sacred shore]

morocco

[delicate bane]

interesting interesting. thanks for sharing

it will probably be useful when you least expect it tbh

[sacred shore]

it is useful, sometimes more useful than C.S related subjects themselves lol

[nimble jackal]

Ah understood, in that case what third subject should I choose? Math and CS seem like obvious solid choices, maybe physics?

[true harness]

from what i've read, CS A levels are not recommended, but i would wait for actual UK people to opine

[tulip terrace]

Well. Today i was in an interview for my dream job and i messed up. Although I have 4 years of experience in python my brain froze and i couldn't do almost anything. I could write some classes, and 1 test case (also it didn't run at all). The structure of my code was fine but nothing did run. They didn't ask to "complete the assignment" they just wanted to see my approach. They asked me how would you go further etc. And i said "i would continue with the classes that i wrote. I would write more methods, i would write my test cases exactly like this" and they asked me other questions that i could answer. Well, question: "is there any chance for me to pass?" advice : Do some coding before interview/dont take anything this seriously. Or your brain will definitely freeze.

[left socket]

Mm. The stress can make it difficult to show your best!

It does overload your mind a little. Trying to impress the interviewer. Thinking of the given problem. About any previous mistakes if you are not mindful. Overcoming anxiety if you are not used to talking in a video call. Or... trying to understand them if you have a strong accent you are not used to.

If you are comfortable with it, you can try streaming a coding session in voice chat. It ticks a lot of the boxes in terms of practising for interviews.

[peak halo]

I can understand why this is disappointing for you. but until they tell you what the decision is, you don't know what they're going to do. given how consequential job interviews are, interviewers should expect some level of nervousness. and you don't know who else they interviewed, or how motivated they are to fill the position.

[silk plank]

How to start a coding career?

[tulip terrace]

Thanks man. I hope it goes well. I am just praying. Its all i can do now.

[tulip terrace]

Thanks for advices and your opinions. I will keep them in mind.

[keen latch]

Where can I find freelance python jobs?
I want to start and make some money of what I learned

[peak halo]

there's upwork.com. there's also a link to the "official" python job board in the channel description.

I want to start and make some money of what I learned
just as a reality check, if you've been practicing programming on your own, and don't have a portfolio, you probably aren't going to be able to convince people that you can complete whatever they might ask you to do.

[ember needle]

hi !

[keen latch]

Well I have made some OCR stuff for bank statements and got some beginner certificates on python

[keen latch]

Is that enough?

[peak halo]

I don't ultimately know. you can always start fishing and see what you get.

[keen latch]

Hmm… I hate working on upwork and other freelance platforms because they’re picky and cheap (sometimes scammers/disrespectful)
I want to shift away from these platforms and know if there are long term clients worth to work with

I worked as a 3d animator and modeler in blender before that

[tulip terrace]

Btw, you guys think that is it okay to ask for second chance interview?

[peak halo]

I can't imagine that working out for you. definitely don't do it until they tell you if they want to continue or not. but if they get back to you and say that you're proceeding with a different candidate, that means their mind is made up.

[vapid jay]

You will experience this regardless. Thats why some companies just do talking technical interview and dont expect you to write code

Unless you use some illegal/regulated substance to calm yourself

[tulip terrace]

Well. I will either go therapy or do the thing that you said next time FOR SURE.

[vapid jay]

Tought i believe coding live in interviews make you very nervous

[tulip terrace]

because it is impossible. I know literally everything about the answer of the question and boom. In 1 second i am 2 iq monkey.

[vapid jay]

As i said some senior avoid it completely and ask about the approach

Afterall writing the code itself is donkey work and if you can explain the concepts well enough you know what to write

[tulip terrace]

After i couldnt do anything they asked about aproaches and it went FAR better. Yes. This is what i did. This is why i have %3 hope.

[vapid jay]

If there isnt a lot of competition you might still get it. I did an interview like that and got the offer.

Depends on who they have on their hand and how well you compare to them. They know you got nervous

[summer roost]

And, if they've done any amount of interviewing before, they've seen candidates freeze up or panic before.

Obviously it would be better to have consistent performance the whole way through the interview, but you're almost certainly not the first person they've interviewed where it started off badly and got better as you loosened up

[honest pivot]

I literally got an offer after answering "Is there a more efficient way to do this?" with "I'm sure there is, but I'm really not seeing it at the moment" (was near the end of a 3-hour multi-interview)

[static minnow]

I’m currently in highschool. Can somebody tell me common interview questions because I think about trying to get a job

[vapid jay]

Exactly. Theyre not oblivious to whats going on.

[neat dagger]

I'm looking to hire some front end developers where could I find them

[digital fjord]

LinkedIn is afaik fairly standard for hiring

[peak halo]

Sounds like you might be getting ahead of yourself. Have you made a resume? Have you started applying? Because employers aren't going to do cold interviews where it's strictly about your ability to answer certain questions.

[static minnow]

I have made an example resume and have not yet applied to anything but I want to plan everything and also prepare for interviews later

[peak halo]

I would focus on preparing your resume and applying. You might find that you aren't employment ready quite yet

[left socket]

It might be worth preparing for the job rather than the interview.

[tulip terrace]

Thanks guys, really.

I hope this conversation will be informative to everyone here

[summer roost]

There are much worse answers you could have given

[left socket]

"Probably. Let me check with my friend on the other call."

[honest pivot]

At the moment I'm having a great combination of imposter syndrome about the new job I'm starting soon, and guilt/sadness about leaving the startup where I currently work. :\

[left socket]

What does imposter syndrome mean in this context?

[honest pivot]

Doubt about whether I will actually be able to do it well, feeling like I must have somehow tricked the interviewers.

[left socket]

Did you have the same feeling in your previous job?

[honest pivot]

I think I was slightly more confident about it, but I do remember having some doubts and going out of my way during the probationary period to prove myself

[left socket]

More confident? Even though you would have had less experience?

[honest pivot]

The topic was a bit closer to what I did in academia. This new job is quite different.

[left socket]

Ah, mm. It felt more familiar?

[honest pivot]

More or less, yes

[left socket]

Sorry. Reading back, I feel like I was interrogating you...! 😅

I will just say that, unless you went out of your way to cheat, you will be able to do the job. They chose you for a reason. If there are any deviations from expectations, whether for better or worse, then it will be their job to adjust tasks, to help you settle in and grow.

[honest pivot]

Definitely didn't misrepresent myself. It's just a big jump.

[summer roost]

Ignorance is bliss, also. I'm sure I was much more confident going into my first job than I had any justifiable reason to be 😄

[smoky quest]

That's natural. It will settle 🙂

In all likelihood, you are overestimating the new job because you don't know it yet and people there have already done it for a while, and you are underselling yourself

[supple surge]

So, im going to be technically working at this new start-up (its complicated) and they want me to make a stock bot.

Okay. I'm not sure if I should list this as a project or experience

[sacred shore]

experience, unless they are fine with you sharing code online (in which case you can put it as project as well)

[covert plaza]

Hey everyone, not sure if I should be asking here, but since it is a path that I want to make for my own business I figured that this is the best place, Could you recommend me a few frameworks and libraries that would come really handy when building an ERP using Python?

[limpid forge]

Hey everyone, is Python the best language for AI development? I've been receiving a lot of AI Software Engineering work for the last several months and they all ask for Python experience. I just got a new one today and that one also asks for Python experience.

[summer roost]

it's a language that's extremely commonly used for AI development

[peak halo]

I work in the AI division for my company, and everyone uses Python.

[delicate bane]

why would you build an ERP system with python

[summer roost]

Why not? Python tends to be quite good at getting data from A to B and massaging it along the way

[delicate bane]

hmm TIL something

[summer roost]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[stone vale]

I’m looking for a career change in the UK, Im currently an telecommunications engineer, I have about 5 years of using python for automation and data analysis, and have used frames works such as django, but I’ve never worked in a software development kinda enviroment, all my coding projects have been an individual effort, not in a team, never used git etc

So if I were to go for a software dev job, with 5 years of python experience but never worked in a software dev enviroment, what kinda salary could I potentially start on ? I don’t want to take much of a pay cut

[gilded valley]

Assuming you find a job your salary would probably be in line with other junior developers, meaning a likely range of 25-50k

[primal ravine]

do quants tend to use Python/R or C++/Java

[left cave]

Hey everyone I m really confused with which language should I start , as in really interested to be a software engineer

[zinc knot]

start with python or javascript

i am a python beginer and i dont know what exercise should i do

[near ocean]

Both but also it depends
You could be using python/c++/java/c# as a quant, R is not as that used

[primal ravine]

Ok thanks

[gilded valley]

R does get used for some macroeconomic stuff, it's bigger in econometrics than python is

[ivory valve]

C

[ivory valve]

C --> C++ --> C# ---> Javascript --> Python

[buoyant seal]

anything you like at the start. It is kind of not really mattering
I would prefer to avoid PHP and javascript for starting people though
Choose whatever fascinates you the most.

[near ocean]

This is terrible advice, why would you suggest it

[buoyant seal]

Student syndrome probably. Common sequence of choices for students enforced by universities.

[ivory valve]

if python is easy to learn it not mean start from it first. he wanna become software engineer , he need to start from low level languages

[near ocean]

Thats not how any of this works

[ivory valve]

it is better to start from low level and then go for high level languages. to fully understand software engineering concepts

if you call yourself software engineer and you dont know how program interects with cpu/ram. idk what to say

[near ocean]

What evidence do you have for this? This is just a boomer opinion because all there was back in the day were low level languages

[buoyant seal]

That's kind of point of view of people from university, who are teached how data structures work at level of low languages with pointers usage.
I think it is kind of only minor aspect of software engineering. And it is not worthy enough to go for low languages to get just that.

[near ocean]

Are you a software engineer? What experience do you have

The point of this channel is to give qualified advice, state your experience/education/qualifications with your opinion otherwise whats the point? Anyone can say anything

[ivory valve]

i am BS computer science graduate

[gilded valley]

That didn't answer the question

[near ocean]

So youre not a professional, youre a student

[buoyant seal]

xD told you.

[ivory valve]

i do job ser,

[near ocean]

So youre not a professional, why do you feel like you can say things like this?

[nimble jackal]

How important is taking maths as an A level when it comes to getting into university or a job?

[ivory valve]

its like erasing core tech education from history and just make websites by drag and drop tools

[near ocean]

Very, its a hard requirement for most unis

[gilded valley]

Quite important. A lot of good universities ask for it, software engineering apprenticeships will ask for it as well I'd guess

[buoyant seal]

Ergh. Apperently any CS related degree will be involving math highly at least.
Depending on job, amount of math can be next to nothing though

[near ocean]

How would you even know what the industry is like

[ivory valve]

you ask alot of "how" questions

[near ocean]

Theyre rhetorical, i know you dont

[ivory valve]

how do you know, i "dont"

[near ocean]

Not important

[buoyant seal]

There is more to software engineering education than just learning Data Structures.
That's just a scratch of beginning for a veeeeeeery long road..

[nimble jackal]

I see, I'm not able to take maths as an A level now, so I've taken CS, business and psychology (last two could work together for non programming jobs), how limiting are these A levels when it comes to applying to a university for a programming course?

[ivory valve]

yea and thats why that pink pfp guy is saying it is not important to go for low level stuff. just learn python and gtg

[buoyant seal]

Because it can be possible learning all of it with python level languages as well. Pointers alone aren't that super needed to learn it

[gilded valley]

It means a lot of Russell group universities won't take you. You should be fine with mid tier universities though. Unless you're in y13, it might make sense to ask to switch onto maths

[near ocean]

What I said was you shouldnt offer "advice" on what a software engineer should know when you dont even have a job in the industry

[nimble jackal]

Ah, does this only apply to the US, or is it different in the UK?

[gilded valley]

I'm talking UK, aiui, a levels are a UK only thing

[near ocean]

Why cant you take a maths alevel?

[nimble jackal]

Because I got a C for it

[near ocean]

Cant you retake?

[gilded valley]

Beg a maths teacher

[nimble jackal]

I'm not quite sure, but would that mean retaking the exam, or the entire year?

[buoyant seal]

To graduate as a middle ranked developer, people need learning stuff like how to have OOP/SOLID/inheritance -> Design Patterns -> Clean Architecture -> different types of code architecture, How to do unit testing and other types of testing, including at least knowing how to do TDD, how to do refactoring, and also learning all steps of a System Design
And also acquiring enough soft skills for independent work, with knowing when to ask for help and when not, writing code readable for other devs.
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap/master/swe_backend.drawio.svg roadmap with color classfication of stuff for backend dev
Nothing really prevents people learning stuff with python. Low level language is not required.
And all of it just a scratch to know a road further.

[gilded valley]

Unless you think you might fail, in which case don't risk it

[gilded valley]

Retaking the GCSE or the as or the a level?

Are as levels even a thing any more?

[nimble jackal]

I'm just selecting my a levels, so I'm wondering to be able to select maths, would I only retake my Y11 GCSE maths exam, or would I need to retake Y11 as a whole?

[near ocean]

I didnt think there were requirements for a levels
I didnt do any gcses

[gilded valley]

Ask teachers about selecting maths, they'll give firm answers. Be clear to yourself and to them that you will have to spend considerable time studying

[gilded valley]

It's on a school by school basis, which usually means individual teachers can choose to ignore them

[nimble jackal]

Understood, thank you very much!

[gilded valley]

It's by no means the end of the world if you don't have a maths a level in 2 years time. You'll still be able to go to an ok university and have a good career. The most important thing is not failing your overall a levels

[nimble jackal]

I see, I'd likely end up going to university in Scotland, so I'm not sure what my options would be without maths.

Assuming I do get into an ok university, how badly could that affect my career?

[gilded valley]

Scotland has plenty of mediocre universities. You can go look at entry requirements

[gilded valley]

Depends on a lot of specifics so can't really say. It could be practically 0, it could mean a 50% pay cut for your first job that runs through your entire career, could even be positive because the teaching style suits you personally better.

Likely answer is "not very much"

[nimble jackal]

Gotcha, thank you so much

[near ocean]

Yea your first job might be hit salary-wise, but after that it levels out, I can agree with that assessment personally

[formal ginkgo]

hello 👋

[peak halo]

Hello, this is the career discussion channel. You can ask a question about that, or you can go to one of the off-topic channels for general chatting.

[formal ginkgo]

i’m like looking to learn how to build like a website so i can sell them. how can i do that ?

[gilded valley]

First learn to build websites, then learn to sell them. First step is where you're at and that isn't a question for this channel

[formal ginkgo]

ok thanks. where can i ask how to build a website?

[gilded valley]

Try asking in offtopic or #python-discussion

[buoyant seal]

it depends on which web site type is desired to be built. in general there are next categories:

• beginner set of html/css/js static assets handmade
• building with no code solutions like wordpress/wagtail
• building full stack web sites over backend framework rendering htmls (possible augmentations with vanilla.js, Jquery, htmx, static frontend linked)
• building interactive web sites with frontend frameworks
• building server side solutions for web sites with backend frameworks as APIs
• building it all together as combination of frontend frameworks + backend APIs

web site can be having varying functionality
from no functionality
to highload functionality processing millions of users, having messages, visual recognition and other functionality.

[buoyant seal]

it is possible to sell web sites with just learning how to build them with no code solutions.
for deeper options, it is highly preferably to get CS degree.
Different in payments for no code and coding solutions is different one of course.

[formal ginkgo]

i’m new

so beginners?

[buoyant seal]

if u want to build them at deepest level, it would be recommended to go to university and getting CS degree.

[formal ginkgo]

oh wow i’m only 14

i’m just like trying to figure stuff out ?

[buoyant seal]

u can always try learning stuff for fun 🙂
learn python syntax, with some book like python in simple packages
and try to build simple blog from this tutorial
https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world

it would be not really even nearly enough to get a job with it, but it would start you on a road to learn doing it

[formal ginkgo]

so just watch this and learn some stuff?

[buoyant seal]

watch, read, practice.

[formal ginkgo]

oh ok that’s good thanks

[buoyant seal]

without generic Software Engineering learned skills, it would be not even close enough to do it for jobs.
but you know, at least you can try building stuff 🙂
and nobody would really hire 14 years old person.

[buoyant seal]

you can try achieving attempt getting something possible to sale with wordpress/wagtail and other CMSes though. learning path is much shorter
https://wordpress.com/en
https://wagtail.org/

Although even for wordpress sites it is kind of requiring a set of different skills
knowing how to deploy it, knowing how to build something with it, having some taste to designing, and highly likely having enough skills to copy-write stuff. From wordpress people stuff like that is often required. I think language skills aren't really expected from 14 years old person. People provide already made texts though, but in the world of freelancing with no code CMSes it is kind of not really guaranteed

It is entirely different situation when person goes full Software Engineering into Front/Backend development. Designing/copywriting aren't asked from them.
They already have too much on a plate of learning other stuff.

[formal ginkgo]

omg bro this is so much information 😭 it’s hard to take in all in. thanks a lot

[buoyant seal]

u a welcome. I desired to build web sites starting from being 14 years old too i think. Kind of attractive they are to me. So cross platform and easy to access for regular user.

[formal ginkgo]

so i’ve just read a lot of it and i don’t know if this is something i should be learning it looks like a lot of work and time. you know anything else that would be more suited for me ?

or should i just keep on leaning about this code and building websites and stuff?

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> alert! scam.

[buoyant seal]

it depends on what you wish to achieve and what is available to you. If you like programming enough and has a highly preferably choice to go to university learning Computer Science stuff
you can make it your life as professional. Learning being Software Developer, having full dive into it for... many years of your life. Software developer learns all the time. For dozens of years while still working. Learning Frotend/Backend/DevOps aspects of web development. Potentially even going into further roles.

If all you need is... attempting to get some low income eventually with minimal technical effort but more with soft skills effort, then just learning how to build it with CMS is enough. It is not really a path of a professional though. CMS are really low paid solutions. Extremely low just to be sure.
in my third world country: software devs started with 400$ per months as juniors and can grow to 3-4 and higher thousands of dollars per month salary (potentially can reach 10 thousands of dollars per month and further)
Wordpress solutions were worthy of only being paid something like from 50$ (one-two landing pages) to 1000$ at maximum (e-commerce shop) per project and competion was obviously ridiculous for no code solutions. Average price for projects in wordpress was around 50-150$ Obviously not really reliable income since a high income of clients is necessary and high reputation at some freelancing platform / enough made marketing. Technically should be still possible to gather per month some nice income.

Or seeking other options where your strengths are.

[formal ginkgo]

is this hard ?

software devs

[buoyant seal]

it depends on if you like it or not. if you like it, then it is nice enough.

[formal ginkgo]

what is it that you do

[buoyant seal]

well. that's really a question that kind of difficult to answer for 5 years old level. easiest answer would be: i type words into magic spells for computers to obey xD

to say it in a normal level: usually, i dig around different documentation, thinking of appropriate solution, trying to write code which would fit me. getting errors all the time, digging documentation more, googling around, asking people for clues, writing automated tests to confirm my results and progress, expressing what i wish to make in progrmaming words that other developers can read and understand what i tried to achieve.
also potentially, questioning clients/business people what they really wish to achieve, and thinking of appropriate solutions to achieve it with technical means. potentially designing how would be looking my solutions with different documenting tools at each stage of a software product.

probably 90% of a time at least, spent to just thinking and digging documentation / researching stuff.
in some cases it is possible just writing code, refactorizing (optimizing it) / writing automated code tests and again writing more code until result is achieved. but that's not always possible. often length researchs are requried

[formal ginkgo]

dude this is really hard to understand😭😭

it sounds kinda boring i don’t really want to have a boring job

[buoyant seal]

sometimes it is intersting, sometimes it is boring. I view programming as a mental play with constructor.
writing code is like building a base in minecraft with electro technical modifications for me
automating processes for end results to be built automatically, acquiring all resourcess automatically and intermediate results. getting enough electricity / lava and etc, while using minimal amount of resources to build it all, and using minimal amoung of CPU to keep up with workload of a base

[buoyant seal]

playing minecraft with electro technical modifications is kind of really similar in many aspects
same digging documentation for some mod like IC2 https://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Nuclear_Reactor and trying to optimize your solution.
try to build nuclear reactor there with automated fuel refilling and iridium ore creation. 🤣
https://appliedenergistics.github.io/ digital filesystem itemstorage brings a reach a real programming touch to minecraft play 🙂

[formal ginkgo]

ok this is kinda easier to understand it doesn’t sound bad

ok yeah i wanna do whatever this is 😂

[buoyant seal]

i hear people often recommend for beginners in python

Our job is creating automated fast solutions for things people did in a long way manually 🙂

[buoyant seal]

it is also possible to apply python for minecraft ;b
although Java is prefered for minecraft to create full fledged modes

[formal ginkgo]

oh that’s nice 😆

[buoyant seal]

Sure. Programming is really like being Wizard kind of 🙂
We cast magic spells to make our fantasies to come true.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f2/7f/3f/f27f3f81801e0d4b80489ab7ed8857fe--character-concept-character-ideas.jpg

[buoyant seal]

This rubiks cube was created with kind of pure math for example. Each its part is some math formula, even seeing/moving/rotating it as 3D is yet another result of mathematical multiplications.
Only just triangles are used as basic building elements out of OpenGL

[formal ginkgo]

that’s big brain stuff🤣

[summer roost]

It's quite unrelated to careers, though. If you want to continue this conversation, please jump to an off topic channel

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel: #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[sand summit]

Don’t forget he took 3 months to solve it

[summer roost]

Again, not on topic.

[vapid jay]

anyone is there who can help me as a mentor

[spare summit]

Same. I am looking to get into cybersecurity but I am currently dealing with learning Python and HTML. I am mostly looking for some kind of guidance because this field seems ever expanding

[peak halo]

html is for front-end web development. I can't imagine needing to know it for cybersec

[graceful mason]

depends what kind of cybersec you're doing - knowing HTML/javascript can help to understand flaws in website security

[near ocean]

This is #career-advice , try #❓｜how-to-get-help or #databases

[fiery shell]

Oh, sorry!

[cedar cosmos]

python only?

[buoyant seal]

nah, it is C#/OpenGL/Videocard level shaders optionally.

[cedar cosmos]

amazing work

[ivory sluice]

? i think you're in the wrong channel. what is that a screenshot of?

[vapid jay]

Oh wrong discord, my bad

[true harness]

how much more attractive is an applicant with a master's vs just a B.S? context is my university offers a program that would let me take graduate level courses as an undergrad and get a masters with just 1 extra year. i realize i would have some opportunity cost of not getting a job, so i need to know how "worth it" it would be. i'm not sure how reasonable asking for quantitative data on this is, but if that exists it would be nice

[summer roost]

Only slightly, I think, unless you're trying for a job in a heavily research focused CS domain like ML

this was a discussion a while back in this channel. Not BS/MS vs BS specifically, but the value of a CS masters

[true harness]

hmm, any specific search terms? can't seem to find it

[smoky quest]

It depends on the job you are looking for and your ambition.
For simple backend/frontend, not much. Although there is tons of value in being able to go further and faster, which tends to mean you perform better and can do more things sooner.
For some more advanced jobs, having a masters makes it easier to get in an interview and succeed

If you plan on emigrating, the more advanced your degree, the more access to quotas/bonuses you have

So if you can get your master in 1 or 2 years, I would say it's worth it.

[summer roost]

Uh, me neither... Maybe it was in a different channel. Sorry!

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> rule 9

[velvet vine]

Are you 6 years old?

[woven apex]

Is it necessary to be so rude?
And your post did violate rule 9. Crypto is a form of compensation.
If you wanted hired help, this is not the server for it.

[velvet vine]

I find it sad that someone drops a mod 2 seconds instead of acting like and adult and letting me know there's rules.

[woven apex]

If you joined the server, you should've seen there was a rules channel first thing. In fact, you should've had a popup asking that you agreed to the rules presented.

[velvet vine]

And?

[woven apex]

That means you should've read them, or at least skimmed them.

[velvet vine]

Did I?

[woven apex]

That's for you to know and me to find out.

[velvet vine]

I'll just leave it the guy that calls for mods when I break them.

[buoyant seal]

it is easier to ask for mod and ensure it is deleted than waiting for reaction from original poster, which can be long time gone to own business.
btw considering your immature reaction, i would really suspect you are actually underage. Usually only underage people care about underage xD anyway, your conflicting attitude really screams red flag to me.

[velvet vine]

"Ensure it is deleted" Mate get a life.

[woven apex]

Your comments aren't necessary, @buoyant seal
I appreciate you hailing us.

@velvet vine The short and simple is that the post violated rule 9. It's fine, it's not like there's immediate punishment the first time. Note that this isn't the server for paid work though.

[grave vigil]

I am essentially going to be in the same position as you, as I have just started as a telecom intern and I'm using Python to automate some stuff.

[stone vale]

Nice, what kind of telecoms stuff are you working on? And what are you automating ?

[grave vigil]

Working on extracting GIS data from government portals. Parsing them into different formats like .TAB and .KML.
Creating many-to-many relationships between different entities for further processing.

I started 3 months ago and I'm going to end my internship in 2 days. Hopefully, I get hired.

Matter of fact, making my presentation about my experience right now.

I started this journey without any knowledge in Python. Learned it myself and currently working multiprocessing and multithreading :D

[analog stirrup]

can anyone tell me what faculty specialization should I choose in 2 years if I am good with computers and coding(relative to my computer science class, not this server)

[smoky quest]

what's the choice?

[analog stirrup]

idk, there are quite some options, the main divider is software oriented and hardware oriented

and there is a lot of misinformation in my highschool, that is why i have decided to ask some strangers on discord about this

[smoky quest]

So how may I help you?

[analog stirrup]

I thought that people here could tell me from experience what would be the best profile for me

[smoky quest]

There is no right or wrong answer. It depends on your objectives and what's available to you.
"being good with computer" is hardly an objective

[grave vigil]

As your questions speaks, I think you would know what's the best for yourself. We are just people who could talk about things, but at the end of the day, you have to make the choice to your comfort.

[smoky quest]

And not knowing the specializations available to you, there isn't anything to recommend beyond the generic

[analog stirrup]

k

[stone vale]

Pick something you enjoy, your career path will most likely change anyway.

[buoyant seal]

never ever used recursion since left university 😆

[hybrid turtle]

I have a test tomorrow
I'm like studying but easily getting distracted
my mind is a mess right now

[vapid jay]

Use the turkey thing.

Cold turkey app.

[near remnant]

xanax

[left socket]

What is bad about turning it down?

[near remnant]

I waited too long for them and I graduated in June. Im afraid, the gap in my resume will affect my career. I probably overreact tho. Also, have to start interviewing again.

[delicate bane]

like i said previously

its just an internship not a marriage

[near remnant]

So what do you recommend for me? Stop caring?

[delicate bane]

my question is are you sure the non-compete means what you think it means or does it mean you cant work for their competitors (bc thats typically the norm), but you can still work for example in a different industry (ex. finance -> healthcare)

[digital fjord]

a company wanted unreasonable restrictions to hire you, and so you rejected them. That seems like a perfectly normal thing to do.

[delicate bane]

yeah and if it is super unreasonable, then you dodged a bullet

that is a good thing

[near remnant]

Could you please send me a pm? I would tell you the exact wording

[left socket]

May be consider what you could've done to reach the same conclusion earlier, for future references.

[near remnant]

Yeah, I've learned from it alot

[delicate bane]

sorry, i am not a lawyer and i wouldnt be comfortable giving legal advice tbh

[near remnant]

I dont want legal advice just opinion on, maybe @left socket?

[left socket]

It can feel bad, as if you had ruined a "perfect run" in your resume. My experience with it so far is that it does not actually matter. I have 3~4 years on un-explained breaks in CV. No one batted an eyelid at it. They focused on just two things: can we get along with you, and can you do what we need you to do or not?

And no. I have enough doubts about my own contracts..!

[near remnant]

3-4 years of breaks?

[left socket]

Mhmm. Two big gaps in my history. Close to four years altogether.

A few months is really not an issue. Well, it might actually be a problem for "graduate" roles that only accept applicants that are about to graduate, or graduated less than one or two years ago.

Better get started if you have an eye on those!

[near ocean]

So did you not take either choice you had a while ago?

[near remnant]

Im from Germany, its different here:D

But anyways, I try to not get depressed over this

[near ocean]

I thought you said you were from denmark

[gritty rivet]

You asked for advice here repeatedly, multiple people responded,. You refused the advice and now you regret it? I guess maybe all you can do is learn from the mistake and move on

[balmy mural]

UK, Denmark, and Germany based on previous conversations

[gilded valley]

Everyone gave the same answer of it doesn't matter

[near remnant]

I'm a secret agent

[honest pivot]

They're obviously onto you if they want you to sign a 5 year non-compete for a min wage internship

[near remnant]

Wdym?

[near ocean]

the KGB want to keep you out of software forever

[near remnant]

Indeed

[solemn perch]

I've been self-studying for Data Engineering, but as there's almost no entry level roles, I'm trying to switch focus to something else. What kind of skills/tools are typically sought after for python backend roles?

[peak halo]

do you have prior industry experience? do you have a degree in something other than CS?

[solemn perch]

I could share my resume, but to sum up I’ve been working as an engineering coordinator for the past 3 years. I’ve utilised Python in it but mostly just to write basic scripts. Regarding degree, I have a BSc in Psychology and MSc in Neuroscience. I gave a couple data engineering projects utilising AWS, Python, Postgres, among other things.

Now just trying to break into a more relevant role, as feel like I’ve been on autopilot the past couple years and self-study is burning me out

[zealous path]

For people who have applied for programming positions and were given a HackerRank test as the technical task:

1. Did it change/impact your view of the company

And if so:

2. how?

[near ocean]

Why would it change your view of the company?

[peak halo]

I'm sorry to hear that. I assume you've already looked for tech companies where your knowledge of neuroscience would be valuable?

[solemn perch]

Thanks. Yeah although I'm really just looking at everything. Right now just trying to figure out what Python (or other) skills I should work on to land a software engineering job.

[left socket]

The test in itself would not change anything for me. The respond speed afterwards and whatever else I might have to go through in addition to it are what would bother me.

[desert belfry]

which are the best books for python exercise practices only??

[vapid jay]

While such programming tests are surely debatable in various aspects, also very much depending on the test itself, I think companies are entitled to make use of them, as a somewhat relevant part of the process.

Note that in many companies, instead of using such tests, there can be technical interviews that contain to some extend test'ish questions.

[vapid jay]

Like, where you would answer by drawing/extending a diagram on the whiteboard, or by writing/extending some code on the whiteboard.

[vapid jay]

currently some relevant "backend" tools very roughly name-dropped which would be worth studying I think

tools

• poetry
• pip
• mypy
• black
• flake8

toolkits, packages

• FastAPI
• sqlalchemy
• python-jose
• pytest

platforms & databases

• prefect.io
• Twilio
• SendGrid
• Kafka / Confluent Platform
• PostgreSQL
• TimescaleDB
• InfluxDB
• Docker

[solemn perch]

Thank you. I know some of these. Some I’ve not even heard of of!

I’m considering properly learning Flask. Do you know if this is something commonly used nowadays?

[vapid jay]

In my company we very much prefer FastAPI, but that is just us.

[vapid jay]

Maybe look at both to some extend and then go deep with one of them.

[buoyant seal]

interesting list. instead of python-jose, i use pyJWT
instead of prefect.io, i have celery it seems.

hmm, TimescaleDB, and InfluxDB never needed applied. had time series DB only for monitoring with prometheus

[vapid jay]

we should also add some standards relevant for "backend" stuff, let me throw in

• OpenAPI (formerly or also known as Swagger)
• OAuth2
• JSON Web Token
• http2
• WebSocket
• Google Protocol Buffers 3
• gRPC (somewhat more rare but still)
• MQTT (old standard, but widely and more and more adopted, also evolving further with MQTT 5 etc.)
• AMQP (maybe a bit dusty, not sure, but often seen, originated back in the days in the financial services industry, great conceptual background)

[buoyant seal]

we can add here different other shades of databases
common to use Redis/RabbitMQ as key values
MongoDB for document db
Elastic Search for Search Engine db

some monitoring, logging instruments

[buoyant seal]

oh nice, recently learned gRPC too. cool stuff to augment for high workload.
web sockets are standard to which there are no other alternatives
we can add here WebRTC as there is no other alternative for video streaming stuff i think? which is common as web sockets
mm yeah OpenAPI integration with FastAPI is great. yeah for other stuff

[buoyant seal]

we can add to here GraphQL as it fills its own niche 🙂 for situation when a lot of stuff is wished queried from one request.

[vapid jay]

RabbitMQ as key/value store sounds new to me, I have seen it for messaging based on the standard AMQP

[buoyant seal]

just for sake of backend also possible to learn just theory stuff like books
Monolith to Microservices O'reilly, Building Microservices
and a bit eyeing if worthy to read Event driven architecture book

we can also say that it is in backend hands to learn deeper technics of some SQL database, transactions and levels of isolation, replication, sharding, ACID, normalization, analysis of performance and optimization

[vapid jay]

@buoyant seal how wide-spread is a new adoption of Celery these days from your perspective? I just saw it recently and had the impression that it is something "old but good" if you need it and if you do not use an alternative Distributed Message Queue and/or Distributed Task Management

[buoyant seal]

btw, since u mentioned a lot of encryption/auth stuff, i would like to add OpenID here. a thing based on OAuth 2.0 that raises in popularity as universal authentificator. Can be often encountered support as auth method in a lot of tools as far as i heard.

[buoyant seal]

It is really common first choice tool to choose from Python ecosystem. Its advantages:
really good code available for it to be used with Redis in fully self hosted solution, but also possible to have serverless scalable infrastructure through AWS SQS as backend.
awesome available monitoring system Flower which is really... bringing nice visibility without effort. Not working for SQS though.
Celery minus that it is capped to 1000 tasks per second as far as i heard though?
for higher workload better to use Kafka as it can do million per second.
But Celery is first choice due to easier to use, manage and monitor

[vapid jay]

I am used to program event-driven systems using Kafka, Redis. Regarding running and observing and managing workers/tasks, I am used to do that with a container orchestration platform such as Nomad or Kubernetes. But it is interesting to see that somewhat comparable solutions are out there based on Celery.

[buoyant seal]

besides running stuff in background as queue, it can also serve as python controllable cron job replacement, with same ways to set when to run repeteadly tasks. celery-beat. Useful to keep your cron within your docker containers and python code

[vapid jay]

Celery to some extend also reminds me of the Apache Spark built-in job management.

[buoyant seal]

yeah, i like kubernetes as main deployment strategy too. Celery beat is nicer to use than tinkering with Kubernetes Cron Job objects

[buoyant seal]

can't compare to that one as haven't used it yet.

[buoyant seal]

btw, it is really dominating in market to use FastAPI, Flask or Django.
and FastAPI best choice to being microframework without forcing its architecture, fastest performance and meant to serve as backend API first.
Flask is same mciroframework but... html rendering first in it, no openAPI out of the box, so worse option.
and Django... django kind of really brings rapid development among junior level developers who don't know about code architecture. Django enforces its own architecture, which any dev is forced to use in it. Kind of really encouraging spaghetti a bit and hard readability due to code jumping all over Django reserved names. We can say that as advantage -> Django enforces consistency through its own architecture enforced. Which is advantage around low skill devs. Plus Django Admin feature is nice to make moderator GUI tool without any effort almost. So... Django is kind of necessary evil serving its usage cases. For rapid development, low time to live solutions among low skills devs.

So FastAPI i think indeed the best choice.

[buoyant seal]

btw, all those things above were mostly mentioned tools, i would add that it is also required to learn generic software engineering skills/theory stuff, such as
OOP, Design Patterns, Clean Code, Clean Architecture, Code architecture patterns, System Analysis and Design, Unit Testing Best Principles and practices, Test Driven Development, Refactoring.
Naming with capital letter, because for almost each thing is book present with literally same name. Code Complete by McConnel is awesome book containing generic info for everything. And having a lot of info what to read after that. As well as other books kind of open what to read after that.

May be it was required from Data Engineers already having it learnt though

[solemn perch]

Thank you both.

@buoyant seal that’s a lot to think about! I’ll admit I’m a little overwhelmed.

With that said, I understand OOP fundamentals, and am currently studying the books “Designing Data Intensive Applications” & “Architecture Patterns with Python”. Also have plans to learn data structures & algorithms.

For trying to break into the industry, would you say then that FastAPI is worth learning and that I should avoid Flask?

[buoyant seal]

Flask is actually beginner friendly and my job first project ever was given me with requirement for it 🙂 Yeah, FastAPI is defintely worthy learning, best python framework.

[buoyant seal]

feel free to deoverwhelm yourself with structured roadmap 🙂 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap/master/swe_backend.drawio.svg added even mentioned during this conversation topics into at least unsorted section.

[solemn perch]

Good to know. I’ll maybe continue my Flask learning then 🙂

Can’t help but feel a bit aimless in my learning through. Just hoping I reach a point where I feel ready for a tech job - which might never come

[peak halo]

@solemn perch I haven't caught up with the discussion since my last message to you, but my thinking is that if you're already highly degreed and have several years of industry experience, and the dilemma is that you don't have enough programming-specific credentials, you might benefit from a coding bootcamp.

[vapid jay]

Since you asked specifically, FastAPI is also beginner friendly and if I were you, I would start with it.

[vapid jay]

Using FastAPI to build micro-services that have REST APIs. Just going along its documentation and tutorials on the FastAPI website. They are great.

[buoyant seal]

from some backend people data engineering is even asked as secondary knowledge preferable to be known, and the same in opposite direction. It is quite minimal gap between data engineers and backend people i think. So it should be pretty much possible transition, for a person with already industrial experience in one of those things. There is some certain intersection of same required to know things.

[solemn perch]

I've considered it. However I'd say my coding is good enough to where I don't know if I'd really benefit from a bootcamp. Think I just need some backend projects. Working full-time makes it hard to find the time for things like bootcamps as well

[solemn perch]

Thanks. I'll certainly look into it 🙂 Any recommendations on where to start? Edit: ignore that, just noticed you mentioned the documentation on the website!

[solemn perch]

Should note that I'm not actually a Data Engineer. That's just what I've been studying towards. However, upon realising there's very few entry-level roles for DE, I'm looking for more general software engineering roles. Most DEs come from Data Analyst or backend engineering roles from what I understand, both of which are slightly easier to break into.

[vapid quarry]

Python

[vapid quarry]

i just do it for fun xD and also bc i find its math parts fun Xddd

[solemn perch]

Also... for backend development roles, should I also be learning some frontend stuff (e..g., js, css, html)?

[buoyant seal]

it is prefered to know for generic education. any backend developer(from middle rank at least) is supposed to know it at junior level i think
Recommending books Head First CSS HTML, CSS missing tutorial 4, Head First Javascript and getting into Vue.js how to use.
it should be more than enough for backend dev to know from frontend. Check also htmx just for fun. https://htmx.org/
and recommending to play https://mastery.games/flexboxzombies/ and https://cssgridgarden.com/ , well, and being comfortable to use something from bootstrap or tailwind if necessary

[solemn perch]

Thanks will check them out. How long would you say it would take to get up to speed with the basic of html etc?

[buoyant seal]

when i had at work time dedicated purely for that, it took me 2 weeks to consume most of theoretic materials, and jumping getting hang of vue.js. Within 1 month of practice it already became sufficient i think, i practiced for 4 months and remembering quite well even after stopping practicing it though

[vapid jay]

Hi everyone, I started my Programming learning Journey 7 Months ago,
I have got Web development Course, Front-End ( Html , Css , JS Basics , Vue Frame Work) Back-End ( PHP , Laravel Frame Work ).
But it's not my thing like I don't wanna continue, So My goal now to learn Python and I want to start making Bots for discord since I'm using it for my Business.
If any1 can recommend me Online course I would very grateful, Thanks in Advance. ❤️

[remote merlin]

What double MS goes good with Cybersecurity?

[buoyant seal]

making discord bots is basically learning backend. high level discord bot infrastructures are 95% of backend with slight touch of discord.
The only little trick in having learnt code architecture, and reversing this ugly dependcy on discord API in opposite direction. Then everything is fine 🙂
https://github.com/dd84ai/darkbot here my discord bot for example, with documentation in readme

[vapid jay]

Yeah but I don't know where can I start from to learn back end

Is there good online courses? or should I buy books and study?

[buoyant seal]

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap/master/swe_backend.drawio.svg preferably starting from computer science degree in university and then learning stuff by following some roadmaps?
as graduate of uni, it is enough for me to learn by self education with books

[buoyant seal]

Code Complete by McConnel is universal generic beginning book to get started in backend software engineering to do backend 🙂

[vapid jay]

Thank you. ❤️

[remote merlin]

Is doing double M.S. worth it?

[buoyant seal]

what is a double M.S.?

[remote merlin]

Masters in Science

[buoyant seal]

shrugs. 🤷‍♂️ it can be if you are data scientist / scientific personal.

[remote merlin]

Graduate program

[remote merlin]

Where are you from?

[vapid jay]

@buoyant seal Some1 recommended this to me to start with.
https://training.talkpython.fm/courses/explore_100days_in_python/100-days-of-code-in-python

[buoyant seal]

third world country

[vapid jay]

Should I get into it as a start?

[remote merlin]

Masters is after you get your undergraduate

[buoyant seal]

i have Bachelor and Master in Math/CS, sure.

[vapid jay]

Oh since you mentioned that, I'm From Third world Country as well

[remote merlin]

Okay, so you understand what I mean

[true harness]

surely 1 M.S is enough, right?

[buoyant seal]

i would recommend starting from university, if you did not attend it

[remote merlin]

I graduated with a BS in I.T.

[buoyant seal]

technically yeah. i mean, who would care it you have one or two only highest achieved science rank kind of matters.

[vapid jay]

Still have at least two years to get the university, < Late education

[buoyant seal]

oh right. if person works in gov related structures, they gain additional money/things if they have even two MS i think. at least in my origin country.

[true harness]

interesting 🤔

[remote merlin]

I am from US

So things might be different here

[buoyant seal]

i liked starting my python journey from here. I am a book person.

[remote merlin]

I started with different book

[buoyant seal]

Consider getting deeeper knowledge with this book then. Really cook book to get python tricks at deeper level.
This book is about more advanced syntax of Python, not about clean code directly in its regular sense.

[true harness]

fluent python is good too

[remote merlin]

I know only OOP

[true harness]

why not learn more then

[remote merlin]

I will

[buoyant seal]

would u have some recommendations to have book diving into Python multi threading/processing/async?

[remote merlin]

I am planning to get certificates by summer. I an starting from beginning to end

I plan to complete PCEP/PCAP/COMPTIA A+

[true harness]

idk a book about those specifically, but fluent python has like 3 chapters on coroutines

[buoyant seal]

nice. I'll probably start with this one then, before going into dedicataed parallelism books.
There are least books like Python concurrency with asyncio 2022. Having hard time finding for generic parallelism though. Probably exists only as chapters in other books.
hmm may be something in High Performance Python book. Lets have a dig around.

[buoyant seal]

Result: 80 pages async, 120 pages multiprocessing, also compiling to C 110 pages, using clusters?(what is that?) 40 pages. hmm and using less ram 110 pages.
not bad. High performance python book is definitely worthy to check stuff

[true harness]

Probably exists only as chapters in other books.
this is what i'd expect tbh, it's a pretty big topic, but not that big

[buoyant seal]

it can be deep if getting into low level details i think

[buoyant seal]

i want like stuff of the level: getting enough understanding to understand best practices coming with it, well and learning them

[lapis wind]

As much as writing performant code is good, from the python project's I've worked on I've come to learn that as long as it's not obnoxiously slow, it doesn't really matter, you just buy more compute 😅

[tired magnet]

@buoyant seal hello there, mind if i DM you? have some overall questions about career path as a backend developer

[peak halo]

Please just ask your questions in the channel.

[tired magnet]

umm, already asked once and darkwind kindly shared a roadmap, but i guess I'll ask again

overall i feel lost, I'm 21 and studying software engineering atm, started python a few months ago, before that (5-6) years ago I was developing android applications with java then basically did nothing since then, now here I am starting over, at firsg i wasn't sure which path i wanna continue with python, AI? scripting and automation? data science? but eventually I decided to go for backend development, but the field is so vast i have no idea where to start

[peak halo]

If you want to do data science or AI, you basically have to get a relevant degree.

[smoky quest]

Considering you are studying software engineering, that would be a matter of augmenting your degree with some portfolio and going through interviews

as you would be considered a new grad, the bar would be low in terms of pre-required knowledge beyond your degree

[tired magnet]

currently taking a course at coursera about python and automation, as soon as that one is finished i wanna take the backend course from meta, but most of it's sub-courses are not even released yet so that's gonna take a while, what i basically do everyday is finish a part of my course, solve a few leetcode problems then watch 20 million different youtube videos about python and stuff and not doing anything productive

[smoky quest]

don't waste your time with leetcode until a few weeks prior to your interviews

Instead, pick up more software related skills like https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Object-Oriented-dp-149207800X/dp/149207800X
Or https://www.manning.com/books/microservices-patterns

There is also https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Algorithms-fourth-Thomas-Cormen/dp/026204630X/ to learn more about DSA in general. That would be a better use of your time than leetcode at this point.

[tired magnet]

i don't feel like imma be employed anytime soon, still gonna be studying for a while, and leetcode is a good challenge overall about your skills and actually enjoy it a lot, plus recruiters in my country don't even care that much about algorithms and data structures, they just want a big fat resume

[smoky quest]

Why do you think it's not gonna be anytime soon? As soon as you graduate, you will be ready.

[tired magnet]

the thing is this is my resume :

empty, lol (i hate the 20 second timer)

[smoky quest]

that's pretty much the same for every newgrad

[peak halo]

You can edit your previous message. Just say everything you want to say before you hit enter.

[peak halo]

I don't think they said they were working towards a degree? Or did I miss something?

[smoky quest]

Maybe I misinterpreted the I'm 21 and studying software engineering atm

[tired magnet]

i think I'll graduate in 2 years (if nothing goes wrong)

and my goal is to have a good resume until then, I'm thinking about learning django and some databases first, the problem is the coursera's backend course isn't gonna be released anytime soon (probably will take 4-5 months) and other guides are somewhat outdated, saw a highrated django course on udemy but it was teaching django 1.11, and 4.1 is out now

[smoky quest]

think about the technologies 2 years ago and compare with today.
Companies aren't hiring one trick poneys but people who will continue to learn and adapt. So no one will care if the technology of your 2 years old project is outdated. What they will care about are the demonstrated skills like using a DB and how you designed the schema you used

So pick flask, django or fastapi or whatever you feel like and build something. Don't get hung up on the versions or specifics that won't matter in 6 months

[tired magnet]

also another big problem that i have is, i never have an idea what to build, and i hate copying something that already exists (or cloning, whatever the word is)

[smoky quest]

since you are beginning, pick something very simple. Don't worry about copying or being innovative. You won't be judged on that anyway. Where it matters if for your motivation as you would be more motivated to work on something you care about than not

[tired magnet]

alright, I'll start something and see where that goes

[smoky quest]

Don't aim to high. Feel free to start with a simple todo app for your first app. You still have plenty of time to build from that and build other apps.
But there is tons of value in doing small visible increments to keep your motivation high

[tired magnet]

alright, will keep that in mind, thanks a lot for your help and time

[delicate bane]

+1 for fastapi

[sand swan]

would you recommend to start TOP?

[buoyant seal]

Ergh, since u a student, and u have years ahead to be still in uni.
U can just try everything. Do projects, see what u like.

It was not hard choice for me choosing web dev, because I wished making web sites since being teenager. And I was kind of lucky getting first job as web dev.

While u a in uni, u can concentrate learning all reusable green generic SWE skills, which u would have to learn for any chosen path anyway

[buoyant seal]

Feel free to go through this building text course
https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world
It was my first step/app in python web world

[vapid jay]

can someone tel me jow to download python?

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
This is the wrong channel for that type of question. You may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[summer roost]

see the "Downloading and Installing Python" section on https://automatetheboringstuff.com/2e/chapter0/ - and yes, please move to a help channel or #python-discussion for any follow-up questions.

[vapid jay]

ok but can you make me a discord bot?

[summer roost]

no, and again, that's off-topic in this channel anyway.

[vapid jay]

ah ok

[unkempt crystal]

I don't know what to do, I have completed my python course, but too I m not confident enough to do anything, even CP, I m thinking off to buy a new course and starting again those concepts I haven't learned i can learn those atleast

[smoky quest]

what's your goal and where are you at?

[ocean tiger]

anyone has any idea the best way to crack GSoC(Google Summer of Code) from scratch
which language to start with where to do open source projects and how to win jsoc in the first year of engineering!!

[eternal inlet]

Anyone Please help me in OpenCV Assignment, Assignment is to detect Only single Person and track that same person.

[ripe helm]

How'd u people learn programming languages

Like with some app or website

[oak geyser]

hello, i am 31 going 32, is it able for me to become a python developer someday? i need to careerswitch

[true harness]

yes, it's certainly possible, especially if you have experience working

[oak geyser]

i am factory worker before i learn python today.

[oak wasp]

which is best website for finding 100% remote jobs? except for LinkedIn

[spiral swift]

Weirdest interview take home assessment I've ever seen.

I applied for a Python developer position.

The take home assessment was different links to the assessments.

In total, 400+ questions and 9 different languages/frameworks.

Java, PHP, NodeJS, HTML, Python, Blockchain and React Native.

Java had different sections, Spring, Java SE, and Java EE8.

And I was required to do all within 2 days.

[lapis wind]

Well that has to be the definition of alarm bells if i've ever seen one lol

[left socket]

1. Apply to many interviews and get their tests.
2. Create a job posting, asking applicants to do those tests.
3. Now you have answers to job tests...!
4. Profit?

[buoyant seal]

seconding that as best definition of alarm bells

[near ocean]

It sounds to me like you were supposed to pick an agreed upon topic to do, not do all of them

[sonic fox]

hi

[gilded wedge]

hello, I am a developer/ graphics designer (beginner)

i am studying computer science in a university

my first langauge is Python and I also know C as second language

i have experience with game and web development (around intermediate)

any way to get internship in order to learn
if anyone have advice or work offer
i would appreciate it 😄

[gilded wedge]

btw i used godot, unity and some of unreal too

[lapis wind]

I think in most western countries there's a legal maximum to which it can be enforced without good reason. Normally 2 years, if it's a government or state secrets kind of thing though, that makes alot of sense.

I mean as always with these sorts of things the best thing to do if you're not sure is ask a lawyer who knows your country's legislation.

As i said, in most western countries there's a limit into how long it can actually be enforced without a reasonable standing regardless on how long they say it 'lasts' for.

But you should check with a lawyer if you want anyone to tell you concretely what they can do

[gilded wedge]

anyone?

[spiral swift]

Yeah, I thought so too, so I sent an email to them to clarify, and they said I am to do all.

[spiral swift]

Interesting.

[woeful spruce]

Even in a job seekers market these employers are entitled. I mean, if the job pays very well, sure, I guess you can do some take home t ste, but my guess is, it probably doesn't pay that well.

[spiral swift]

Yep. I also think they just have this as a boilerplate template for all their tech related position.

And not like specialized technical interview depending on the position.

[vapid jay]

Hey guys
I have a doubt
Are libraries like OpenCV used at companies like google?
I'm a beginner so I'm not that sure

[gilded wedge]

any cool resources or site to apply for internships?

[peak halo]

OpenCV is used for computer vision. Why do you ask if Google in particular uses it?

[peak halo]

internships are usually offered to university students, and your university probably has a career services office that helps students find them.

[vapid jay]

not only google
im asking if its used at giant tech companies like google

[gilded wedge]

my university is not a great one
so i can't except much from them
i have to find internship off campus

[peak halo]

https://opencv.org/about/#:~:text=Along with well-established companies,make extensive use of OpenCV.

[vapid jay]

Ok thanks!

[vapid jay]

which company do you have in mind?

[gilded wedge]

as i am new and got no industry experience i have non in mind
currently learning data structures and c++

[peak halo]

is your goal to do computer vision for a top tech company?

[vapid jay]

I'm not sure about that yet.

[near ocean]

Which company is this if you dont mind sharing?

[orchid violet]

Can someone help me out. I really enjoy programming and I already know quite a lot of python but I'm not sure what career I should take. I wanted to do cybersecurity but I'm not sure if I will really do that much programming and I'm not interested in web dev, app dev or game dev

I want to specialize in something which needs quite a lot of programming but is not in the above mentioned fields

I was thinking of doing artificial intelligence and implementing it into cybersecurity but I'm not sure if that would work

So can someone help me and tell me what I should do

[summer roost]

what's your education level?

[orchid violet]

grade 9

[summer roost]

then you should just be focusing on getting into a university and getting a CS degree

[orchid violet]

I wanna build up some skills before that

[summer roost]

sure, that's reasonable. Experiment with projects that interest you. Don't worry about "specialization", yet - just do things you find interesting.

[orchid violet]

thanks I'll try to do that

[summer roost]

specialization comes about naturally - as you spend time doing stuff that you enjoy working on, you get better and better at it, until you find that you've got specialist knowledge in it

[orchid violet]

thnx

[near remnant]

Would you guys turn down a bad offer or accept anything as a self-taught?

[true harness]

depends on your financial situation, how bad is "bad", and a bunch of other things. idk if there's a better answer without specifics

[peak halo]

did you get a "bad" offer? how confident are you that you'll get another one? If you're self taught, I would err on the side of doing what it takes to get your foot in the door.

[summer roost]

I agree. For a self taught developer, getting your foot in the door in the corporate world is the hardest part. Once you've worked as a professional for a few years, being self-taught no longer matters much, but finding anyone willing to take a chance on you as a self-taught developer with no prior work experience can be really difficult.

[silent oyster]

Would anyone be willing to take a look at my GitHub page and provide some feedback on ways to improve it or make it more professional?

[smoky quest]

Feel free to post the link so people can look.
But with a username like yours, I would be worried about clicking on any link 😉

[silent oyster]

https://github.com/ServeRAider/Projects.git my GitHub profile name probably wont make you feel any better 😂

[jade rampart]

I want your full honest opinion. I'm a Windows 10 Pro 64 bit user and to be honest I'm more than confortable with it. But I've heard from programmers that Linux is better, at least for programmers. I have really little experience with Ubuntu 20.04. So if it's true that Linux is better for programmers, then I'm changing OS, but if not, then no need, right? Also, I don't play lots of video games tbh, but every now and then I enjoy playing F1 2022, Forza Horizon 5, maybe League of Legends, CS:GO, etc. So if Ubuntu accepts that, better.

Anyways, thank you so much for taking your time and reading this.

[jade rampart]

can I DM you?

[summer roost]

in all seriousness, it doesn't. I'd be reticent about using a github username like that on your resume.

[summer roost]

This seems to have nothing to do with careers?

[jade rampart]

Well maybe businesses value more Linux over Windows so maybe it relates with carreer. But well maybe Im wrong. Where should I post this?

[silent oyster]

but im Aiding the server, theres only one r 😏

[summer roost]

in an off-topic channel.

!off-topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:
• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[silent oyster]

no theres actually a reason for it which I can talk to in an interview process

[summer roost]

I, as someone with "godlygeek" as their github profile name, think that "ServeRAaider" is likely to send the wrong signals.

[silent oyster]

fair enough

[summer roost]

and I'd worry the name makes it less likely for you to make it to a face-to-face interview.

[silent oyster]

hows the actual content of the page though in your opinion

[summer roost]

you might not get the chance to talk about it if people see the name as a reference to malicious activity and throw the resume out based on that.

the formatting in the README is poor (# at the start of a bunch of lines, and in the middle of some of them).
You've got a bunch of typos ("Hisotry", "created" rather than "creating", "as well a GUI" rather than "as well as a GUI")

and the CSVPortScanHisotry.txt looks like evidence of likely malicious behavior - port scanning of public IPs is frowned upon

[silent oyster]

As someone trying to get into Cyber security it makes sense to be able to do those types of things

there are going to be instances where I am going to have to look at log files and be able to extract the important info from them. I was using that as a demonstration of my ability to do so

[summer roost]

if you're applying specifically to security related positions, that might not be frowned upon, but I think it would be for most positions.

[silent oyster]

I am majoring in cyber security so these are the skills Id feel like would be applicable for the jobs ill be applying for.

[smoky quest]

that would be assuming someone wouldn't outright reject it

[smoky quest]

• No License
• Meaningless git history
• The readme could be clarified. For instance starting with a table that has a summary of each, then followed by paragraphs for each one going into more details and even going as far as showing examples of runs
• Code has duplication. I would also suggest to have some model objects and to separate the parsing from the processing
• There are no tests
• You may want to use CLI arguments rather than doing a bunch of input()

[lapis wind]

• As a nit pick, but your code naming convention seems to simply be entirely PascalCase which although consistent, IMO should follow the language standard guide I.e. snake_case for vars and functions, and PascalCase for classes.
• Would definitely not hurt to run a formatter like black over your code
• Would definitely not hurt cutting back on some of the meaningless comments in the code which are all on one line and really quite long.

[silent oyster]

much appreciated on the feed back

[dark moon]

What are some smallish projects I can do in a summer to showcase my skills?

I've been beating my head against this one project for far too long, and I think its time to let it die. The spark is gone

But I do need a few things under my belt by the time I graduate to put on my resume. So I suppose a better question would be: what kind of projects should I be looking towards?

[left socket]

Anything that can compile, run, and visibly does something. From scratch to finish.

[coral dew]

I've been working as a JavaScript developer at a very small-scale startup for 4 months now. When I joined I wasn't good at JS, Python was the only language I had worked with. I had some Django projects in my portfolio when I joined So, now my company is offering me a position as a Python developer. Here is what my new JD says. Working as a JS dev, I really begin to get a heck of it and began to like it.
Now I'm unsure if it is really an upgrade to switch to Python when JS is at its peak rn and is being considered as a God lvl language. Is Python developer a better position compared to JavaScript? Should I accept the offer?

[lapis wind]

If it's the exact same benefits/compensation, then just go with what ever one you're currently/think you'll enjoy writing the most.

If you're enjoying learning and writing JS and you're not super bothered about jumping back to Python, not a whole lot of reason to switch, ultimately it might be more beneficial to stay with JS to gain more experience with it.

[coral dew]

It's a slight increase in compensation but it is because of my current work as a JS dev.

[summer roost]

it sounds like in the Python role, you'd be using Python and JS, and in the current role you're using only JS?

all things being equal, I'd choose the one that gives you more experience with more technologies, @coral dew

pure backend positions often pay better than frontend ones, and professional experience working with Python on the backend will likely give you a leg up in the long term

[coral dew]

It's more like ill be working at the backend for the same apps, maybe creating APIs with DRF for those apps. I'll be working on the server side.

[summer roost]

for both jobs, or only for the Python job?

[coral dew]

For Python

[summer roost]

as far as long term earnings potential goes, getting backend experience is a very good idea

I'd be saying that even if the backend position was Node.js instead of Python.

[coral dew]

I think ur right about getting exposure to more technologies. I'll accept the offer.

[summer roost]

it's more technologies, and technologies where the demand for engineers outstrips supply

which, in addition to giving you a broader technical base, also puts you in a position where you can expect higher wages for leveraging those new skills.

[clear warren]

guys im new in the dc server where can i ask my python coding related questions?

[buoyant seal]

Help channels, read #❓｜how-to-get-help , or #python-discussion optionally
Or related code sections like #algos-and-data-structs depending on question type

[vapid jay]

So true...

[true harness]

it's really not, and it's also kinda off topic. maybe #pedagogy

[ionic iron]

Should I learn java after python?

As it is a more standard language,

[true harness]

idk what you mean by "more standard", but it can definitely help you with getting a job. java is used a lot

[summer roost]

though I'm betting there are more new projects being created in Python than Java these days.

but yeah, Java is a perfectly good second language to learn.

[light valve]

What can i do in freelancing
As a python developer

[vapid jay]

hii

[coarse crag]

is it okay to use your actual name for github username?

[smoky quest]

yeah, I do that

[coarse crag]

ooo i see, i was worried that there would be some damaging cons of doing so, and that i should change it, thanks!

[smoky quest]

it's more professional than 3|_i73H4x0r

[buoyant seal]

What is ic

[coarse crag]

oh true 🤣

[smoky quest]

I assume they meant leet code

[violet magnet]

I dont know. I feel like leetspeak is very impressing to hiring managers and I think its something you want to demonstrate you are skilled at in your portfolio.

[smoky quest]

It's not impressive. If anything it's childish

[violet magnet]

Yah but it lets the hiring manager know that you've been around a long time to remember leetspeak and that you're definitely not a newb

[rich trellis]

does anyone have a roadmap for cybersecurity?

[spark zinc]

guys how do i not completely suck hopelessly at leetcode, i have an interview tmrw and i have absolutely no hope rn

[smoky quest]

How have you prepared so far?
What do you think are your weak points?

[spark zinc]

ive just done a bunch of leetcode and my weakpoints are everything like

idk i just cant wrap my head around alot of these problems, even some of the easy ones throw me off, its like i just cant thing of the right steps idk

[smoky quest]

Sounds like you could:

• Go back to the beginning to re-acquire the fundamentals. Ex: https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Algorithms-fourth-Thomas-Cormen/dp/026204630X/
• Go through interview oriented books like https://www.crackingthecodinginterview.com/
• Use other coding challenge websites that aren't as dry but can be a good stepping stone like codingame.com
• Go through some easy leetcode with a friend or coworker

[near remnant]

i feel awful because i turned down an internship due to its 2 years long non-compete and indefinite NDA (no expiration date)

what to do

[gilded valley]

not have been an idiot

[near remnant]

why am i an idiot?

[unkempt crystal]

i m in the 3rd year, and i want to be a python developer

[vapid jay]

Hello there. I'm a freshman cs student. I know python and java quite well. I also have elementary knowledge of calculus, vector algebra and probability.
I want to become a successful ML engineer. I was wondering if I must do something like web dev or mobile dev first then try ML or can I just start in my freshman year? Also, if any experienced dev here could help me with a roadmap, that'd be a huge help.

[wintry tendon]

https://kanger.dev/tensorflow-courses/

[sudden yacht]

Please be more respectful to other members.

[lapis wind]

You're not, their remark was fairly unjustified, but we'll ignore that.

That being said, as a general rule of thumb, if you're concerned about the length of a NDA, you should ask a lawyer who knows your countries jurisdiction. 2 year non-competes and NDAs are certainly common in software even for internships, so if you're concerned about something, it's a good idea to actually know what is and isnt enforceable as i've previously told you.

A company can 'say' the non-compete and NDA can be for an unimitated amount of time, but often, there are limits in place making them un-enforceable after a given period regardless of how long the company says it lasts. So you should be aware of that, if my NDA is 'forever' but they only have grounds to enforce it for lets say 2 years, then anything beyond that in reality is irrelevant because it's invalid. Needless to say this is not legal advise ask a lawyer

[gilded valley]

remark was perfectly justified

[lapis wind]

Care to clarify why? Because that comment seemed completely unhelpful 😅

[gilded valley]

because he has wasted the time of dozens of people asking the same almost-certainly-bullshit-filled question to then proceed to ignore almost all advice

over the course of something like 2 weeks now

[near ocean]

Its been months now that dos has been asking the same questions getting the same answers and not heeding them
At some point its on them to be smart about how they manage their offers

[gilded valley]

if you repeatedly solicit and ignore advice from the same group of people - that's pretty idiotic

[near ocean]

Also, i'm pretty sure others have been reprimanded because they kept asking for legal advice here, shouldnt this be considered as well?

[near remnant]

Sure, ban me guys, thanks @near ocean hope you have a better day now!

[near ocean]

I dont care if youre banned or not, just stop asking about the same shit every day
We're not lawyers, dont sign the damn nda if you dont want to, no one's forcing you to

[near remnant]

I know, I think I need therapy or something. I'm sorry guys...won't post for a while.

[sudden yacht]

We cannot give you legal advice. Nor should you ask random strangers on the Internet for legal advice. You aren't going to be banned.

[sudden yacht]

It was not. It was rude and unhelpful. You could have chosen to say nothing.

[graceful mason]

Now it's a 2 year non-compete?

Dos has changed his home country and non-compete length so many times now

Maybe they don't want to hire people who keep moving homes and signing different contracts, or maybe HR just has an inherent hatred for LARPers 🤷‍♂️

[vocal bronze]

how to get into a carear

[gilded valley]

the usual path is to do a degree and then get hired.

[tender gyro]

What's India doing right?

[near ocean]

Its got billions of people

[gilded valley]

That seems like a question better suited to #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval to me

[tender gyro]

probably the main causality lol

[buoyant seal]

i am happy very much. worked on sheer enthusiasm for 5 months in a company
each time i did not have salary because of some berauctic issue. Finally got signed contract and opening bank account (confirmation should be tomorrow). Finally going to get paid. It really brings happiness.

[near ocean]

You worked for 4 months without getting paid? Why

[buoyant seal]

it was understandable. first two months i was not paid, because i needed to acquire registration of where i live in a country, but i was not able because the only relative who could get me it, did not have her documents of ownership updated. that's why it was delayed. (Without this registration i could not get contract of employment)
and then i suddently immigrated to another country, and beraucratic problems began to have it formed for new country
And then main lawyer in a company ghosted me for two months because she was overwhelmed with all other immigrants. She even fell ill and took vacation after that, and still was not able to process me. Transfered my need to have a contract to other lawyer. Finally i got contract.

The funny pleasant thing, the contract has salary for 33% more than i expected it to be 🙂 Not sure if i am mistaken or somewhere, but it looks like really pleasant suprise.

The company is big and international one, already 12 years existing, so i trusted it enough to have payments delayed and accumulated 🤷‍♂️ (France, Germany, Cyprus pressence, 1000 employees)

[quasi forge]

I'm a student who just finished class 12 I wanted to ask if ecm subject is good or not please help me

[shadow moss]

Get good at writing and reading.

[buoyant seal]

Besides people amount
We can add here them having English as second native language, so maximum exposure to international market
And specific mentality of Indians. As far I gathered, it is their specific mentality / a wish of reaching manager positions. Something raising from their still cast society
Consider added persistence of a person fighting for his happinesses from less economically successful country

Wishes come true for those who know what they want and go for that

[teal parcel]

I need a small help if there anyone who is from Biotechnology?

[orchid brook]

is the projects section of a resume a big downgrade from the experience section

[peak halo]

This is not a help channel. But on the internet, you should never ask "can someone help with x topic". Just ask your actual question. (But not in this channel.)

[orchid brook]

like we have university and company (like google tesla etc) partnership projects where like ten students work on part of a big company's project and we have design reviews meetings etc. and the companies check our work so can I put this in the experience section?

[peak halo]

I had an "individual projects" section on my resume when I was hunting out of university. because new graduates don't really have enough experience to fill a page.

[orchid brook]

but wouldn't this be undermined if put in the projects section? since that section is mainly for individual hobby projects?

[peak halo]

though let's make sure we're working with a shared definition of "experience" as it pertains to resumes. I would expect the experience section to be a list of jobs you've had. but that doesn't mean that things you've done that aren't formal employment aren't relevant "experience".

the meanings of words aren't absolute. the point of the resume is to convince the hiring people that it's worth it for them to interview you. however you want to arrange the information on the page is up to you.

[orchid brook]

hmmm yeah i guess if i can pull it off

is teaching assistant for ML course as a sophomore any useful in a resume?

[peak halo]

is this like a capstone project?

[orchid brook]

not really

or ig yeah it is

[peak halo]

yes, definitely include that. being a TA reflects well on you. especially for jobs relevant to the topic. (I was a TA for an ML course, and now I work in ML.)

[orchid brook]

can i say like Google X UniversityName in the company name field in the resume

that way it is clear that it's a collaboration and im not working for the parent company?

[peak halo]

however you want to do it, just make sure no one will glance at it and think you worked directly for Google.

[orchid brook]

yeah definitely

[peak halo]

do you have an "Education" section? you could put it there.

[orchid brook]

can i put a full ride scholarship in education? or is academics irrelevant?

[near ocean]

Is this for your first position? Then yes

[orchid brook]

i had an internship as a freshman

[peak halo]

if you're a new/soon-to-be graduate, your academics are sort of the main thing you have to go by. Is there a name for the scholarship?

[orchid brook]

yeah there is, i am a second year student so i dont really have much work experience

can i put extracurriculars in projects? like if I was the lead officer or something?

[peak halo]

literally no one expects you to. if you have any, great. if not,

[orchid brook]

but like some big companies have freshman/sophomore specific internship programs right

[teal parcel]

hey

[near ocean]

Anything that would make you stand out but is also somewhat relevant should be on the CV

[peak halo]

honestly I'd have to see the (anonymized) resume to comment on whether or not these details are awkwardly placed. but yes, you should include that you were a "lead officer".

[orchid brook]

okay ill prepare it and show it to you guys

[peak halo]

there's a 20 second slow mode, so please make sure your messages are contentful.

[orchid brook]

but are these even possible/realistic for me? how do i even get an interview?

[peak halo]

you can probably get an internship for next summer.

[orchid brook]

but how do i look for them

also is it worth applying to the big ones? like the freshman/sophomore targeted programs at google, microsoft, deloitte etc

[peak halo]

your university probably has a career services center. and companies that want student interns probably go to them.

[orchid brook]

hmmmm thats true

is it okay if I format the projects section the exact same way as the experience section? like job title company name location bullet points?

[peak halo]

just do it, and if it looks terrible, we'll tell you.

[orchid brook]

alright ill send it in a min

[peak halo]

no rush.

when I say "just do it", I mean "don't hesitate over every detail", not "do it right now"

[orchid brook]

lol it's ready no worries

[gilded valley]

don't focus on the year, just apply to any and all internships. Ignore "penultimate year only" student requirements if you're otherwise interested in the internship

[orchid brook]

so is it okay if the first bullet point of a job description describes what the job is

like if i have TA role can i in the first bullet point say that "TA for XYZ course, topics include xyz"

[rancid kettle]

Hey guys I've started my a levels and I wanna do comp sci in uni next year so I wanted to ask if I can get into a university if I don't do a level maths

[lapis wind]

you can, normally they want either CS A level or maths a level

[rancid kettle]

I've done gcse maths and for my a levels I'm taking ict physics and geography

My school doesn't teach CS just ict

[lapis wind]

just as a note though, you might wanna additionally do Core Maths to aid with it. And as another note, I don't believe they all accept ICT for CS degrees because technically it's a BTEC and is very different to CS A level

So I would probably look at UCAS and see what unis require because it might be that you have to do Maths or some other STEM subject which they want as a required A level, it may be that they're very flexible, but i imagine some definitely aren't

[rancid kettle]

Alright thanks

[gilded valley]

almost no university seeks CS a level. At a lot of Russel group universities, it's frowned on

[gilded valley]

Yes, it will limit your options when applying to university. If you can do it, I would reccomend it

[lapis wind]

Hence the "either" in that sentence. As there are a lot Maths or CS or similar. Although I agree, generally it's not as wanted as maths in general so

Anyway, look at UCAS.

[gilded valley]

Well the either is somewhat misleading - not having maths excludes you from many universities, not having CS excludes you from none that I know of. CS is not a sought after A-level, other STEM A-levels typically put you on a much better footing

[vapid jay]

that question is so broad it's impossible to answer

it depends entirelyon what your goals are

[rancid kettle]

Thing is my school isn't letting me take maths cause I got a 4 in my igs which is basically a c

To get into maths I would need at least a 6

[gilded valley]

If you think you're likely to fail it, or if your school is super strict, then that's not the end of the world. But there's a good chance your teachers have some degree of freedom to take people into maths anyway, so if you find a friendly maths teacher explain that you know you'll have to put in a ton of work to get the grades (and that you will put in that work), then there's a solid chance they let you on

but you would have to actually put in that work

[lapis wind]

I will say if you got a 4 in maths GCSE, A level maths will be HARD

Which probably isn't what you want to hear but there's a reason why they recommend not taking it if your GCSEs weren't a 6 or above. Unless you really really like maths it's likely that it will suck unless your teachers and class are really good. But I have my reservations about that 😅

For reference I took A level maths after getting a 7 In GCSE and it was probably the worst part of my A levels to the point where I just switch to a different subject 6 months before final exams because there was a better chance of getting a good grade with the new subject than failing maths aha, this might be because of the fact that 90% of my A levels was spent during lockdown and our teaching was "Read these pages" every day, but it is worth considering if you're going to be able to sustain the workload and catch up without getting burnt out.

[obtuse cloud]

Can i get this your open GL rubic cube game?

[tight mulch]

Hello

[rancid kettle]

Ya honestly I don't think I'd be able pass maths and I already asked the teachers they said it's for my own benefit

[rancid kettle]

Ya I'd rather get a good grade in smth like geo rather than end up failing maths and having to retest

[near ocean]

From what I remember a level maths had a wildly different curriculum to gcse maths to the point where my teacher suggested we skip as a class, I didnt have to do it

[whole wasp]

Have to sign an NDA to continue the interview process should I do it or move on?

[near ocean]

Ask a lawyer, NDA talk doesnt belong here

[lapis wind]

Haven't heard or done any interviews which require a NDA to even interview to begin so mild alarm bells. But as mariosis says, ask a lawyer™️

[whole wasp]

Can’t afford

[peak halo]

!ban 297590290410373121 We have asked you repeatedly to stop asking legal questions here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @whole wasp permanently.

[ivory sluice]

fwiw for you or anyone else reading: i don't think asking questions about NDAs is problematic. it is a careers-related topic.
but constantly asking for personal legal advice when moderators have consistently warned and infracted for the same action is what was problematic here

[orchid brook]

is nasa as hard as faang for internships? It seems like the pay is a fraction

[peak halo]

I don't know, but unless you're really strapped for cash, I would go with whichever internship more closely relates to your goals. Because if you want to work in something aerospace related, a NASA internship is probably going to be more helpful for you than Facebook/Meta.

[orchid brook]

anything software related is the goal

but i havent taken dsa classes yet so im not prepared for faang leetcode yet

like are companies like caterpillar good

For a sophomore summer internship? Summer internship applications usually close in the fall right?

Next semester ill have way more experience but wouldnt that be kinda late for applications?

[hoary torrent]

what classes do you take?

[bitter oriole]

Hey guys. I work as sysadmin for hpc cluster, but I would like to start doing side projects using python, like freelance. I have master degree in CS and my thesis was in the field of computer vision. I dont know where to start searching for side projects to make some extra money on a side. Do you guys have any suggestions? I quite like my current job, so Im not ready yet to change full time.

[wheat sparrow]

here

[compact vessel]

Nice 👍

[wheat sparrow]

thx

[lucid totem]

What is that for

[wheat sparrow]

python duuuuuuuh sooo us ticket pls

[dull hill]

Hello

[wheat sparrow]

i live in iran thats why persian

[lucid totem]

I know a guy from iraq but he speaks kurdish

[dull hill]

@wheat sparrowIs paypal available in your country ?

[wheat sparrow]

no even not yt but i use vpn lol iran

[dull hill]

@lucid totemI'm from Iraq

[lucid totem]

Really? Cool

[near wigeon]

hey guys i have an interview for a senior python developer role. My question is what is included in distributed system topic

[lucid totem]

he lives in kurdistan tho

[dull hill]

@wheat sparrowHow do you make money from programming thou ?