ot1-perplexing-regexing

[rough sapphire]

Is that correct?

[late sedge]

yes but the whole topic of fair use is really a legal quagmire

[rough sapphire]

Yeah fair

Well thank you

[late sedge]

since it can be easily interpreted in a lot of ways

[quartz heron]

@west zephyr can you uninstall my pip

[inland wolf]

damn

its that easy

[honest pawn]

But how

How does that work?

Oh

[harsh tundra]

I know. I actually clicked because I like rickroll and it wasn't it </3 ( :P )

[mild abyss]

what for though haha

[quartz heron]

oh wow i recived a ping

it is pip3 for me

[twin charm]

JOE! 🤣

[inland wolf]

joe

[mellow spire]

Whether it shows or nit, never click on any link sent by mr,joe

[vapid nymph]

👀

[vapid nymph]

This is psychological to make sure no one reads them /s

[mellow spire]

lol

[low chasm]

Is it better for a web framework to perform better at a higher concurrency or a lower one?

[harsh tundra]

Nah. Joe is love, Joe is life.

[inland wolf]

as is shrek

[edgy crest]

[vapid nymph]

@wheat lynx IS RED RANGER ALWAYS WATCHING

[wheat lynx]

yes

[vapid nymph]

no typing indicator smh

[wheat lynx]

that's just because i was too fast

[low chasm]

Lmao

[vapid nymph]

👀

[inland wolf]

wookie is the fastest ranger in town

[austere forum]

hmm

[vivid path]

🥴

[simple sand]

!e

[royal lake]

You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

[simple sand]

!ping

[royal lake]

You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

[simple sand]

oh sorry wrong channel

[mild abyss]

it is good if it can but that also depends on how large your project is, so if it is small, higher concurrency is not needed much

[low chasm]

Alright, thanks

[halcyon bone]

@rough sapphire hi

[rough sapphire]

This is channel 2 u lied to me 😤

[halcyon bone]

no it's not channel 2 is "it's all an object"

remember we're in python :))

[rough sapphire]

Well 0 counts as channel 1 sir

[halcyon bone]

but either way hk isn't china, but they are trying to change it asap

[rough sapphire]

So where is it

[halcyon bone]

hk has its own laws

currancy

[rough sapphire]

Own flag?

[halcyon bone]

language + different writing system

own flag

own emblem

[rough sapphire]

Own national anthem?

[halcyon bone]

no national anthem 😦

we drive like the brits

while they drive like continental europe

[rough sapphire]

Brits drive weird

[halcyon bone]

whole different tax system

[halcyon bone]

RHD cars are slightly safer than LHD

[rough sapphire]

Are u from China or Hong kong 🤔

[halcyon bone]

hk

[rough sapphire]

So u aren’t Chinese

Ur hong kongnese

[halcyon bone]

well we are hker but i identify as chinese

[rough sapphire]

What’s ur Chinese name

[halcyon bone]

it's like how someone welsh could call themselves british

[rough sapphire]

And white name

Is it like tony or something

[halcyon bone]

where did you get that from 😂

[rough sapphire]

It’s common to have

[halcyon bone]

a racist way of saying western name 😂

[rough sapphire]

Bc some names are hard to say in English

[shell raptor]

the what

[rough sapphire]

So ppl in Nigeria have english names

When they goto us or uk

[halcyon bone]

i'm pretty sure they speak english in nigeria

[rough sapphire]

No but ik someone with a long af name in nigerian but they change to idk toby

When they come to the west

[shell raptor]

"your name does not fit our culture, you're now John"

that's pretty lame IMO

[halcyon bone]

by odd coincidence, my western name is "john" - as seen in my username

[rough sapphire]

No they’re parents give em that name

What’s ur native name 👀

[winter terrace]

has anybody ever seen a similar sorta graph?

[tardy rain]

I have now

[harsh tundra]

That's still called western name, not "white name", as johnngnky already said...

[harsh tundra]

It's disrespectful to ask random people you don't know their name on discord, where they're behind their username for a reason. Especially if you only ask people from different culture...

[rough sapphire]

Okay I’m sorry

[tardy rain]

Western name isnt accurate either imho

"john" is english, its not greek, its not russian, its not italian, its from a small part of the west

[winter terrace]

i got it with

rem = 100
y = []
for i in range(1, 100):
  y.append(rem * i / 100)
  rem -= rem * i / 100

and then i plotted y

[graceful basin]

@winter terrace that looks like that function for gasses

[winter terrace]

?

leakage over time?

[harsh tundra]

Western culture is a common name for dominant post-colonialist US-European-centric culture. The same with "Western country" - Australia is western country even though it's far far east

And yes, because of British colonialism and post-war position of the US, English has become international language easily and dominated everything

[tardy rain]

I know, just pointing out that the west isnt just english because americans/brits said so

[harsh tundra]

I wish Esperanto was more common

[tardy rain]

I just wish english wasnt as dominant tbh

[winter terrace]

eh

english is the easiest language ive learned

[harsh tundra]

But French blocked it from becoming an official language in UN or some other org of that time. Because French was the international language then

[winter terrace]

with a few minor hiccups

[harsh tundra]

Writing vs pronunciation? It's not easy

Spanish is easy af

[winter terrace]

it has the fewest amount of rules in writing

[harsh tundra]

Esperanto is mostly based on Spanish and other Romantic languages, with some other influences

And easy grammar

[winter terrace]

esperanto?

[graceful basin]

English is quite complex tbh

[winter terrace]

if you make it complex

[harsh tundra]

Yes. It's a constructed language, made specifically to be easy to learn so it could be easy international language

[winter terrace]

even with bad grammar and missing articles someone can get their point across

[harsh tundra]

If I didn't have spellchecker on my phone, I probably couldn't write "pronunciation" correctly just above...

[winter terrace]

thats not the point

[graceful basin]

More tenses than most languages, inconsistent plurals, pronunciation may as well be random, commas don't really even have hard rules

[harsh tundra]

Read or read? In spoken language, it makes a lot of difference

[winter terrace]

you dont have to correctly spell pronounciation for someone to understand that you're using that word

[tardy rain]

The problem with english is that theres no rules for most things

[graceful basin]

That works in every language

[winter terrace]

thats what makes it so easy to learn

[graceful basin]

You can just speak incorrectly and have people understand you

[winter terrace]

have you never heard someone talk without articles?

really?

[carmine niche]

english has grammatical rules, there are just a lot of them and schools decided to stop teaching them

[winter terrace]

like?

[graceful basin]

English grammar is pretty consistent

[harsh tundra]

It's not about articles? It's about writing vs pronunciation???
I had a person doing a history presentation in English class say some politicians signed some declaration. But the person said it in a way that sounded like "singing"

[winter terrace]

describe it

[carmine niche]

yeah

[harsh tundra]

Grammar, yes. But not pronunciation. That's what I've been saying all the time

[graceful basin]

I am not arguing with you

[winter terrace]

yeah, i have to agree with you on that. accents are a bitch in english

[harsh tundra]

I was just saying it because Hillo mentions articles while I clearly mentioned pronunciation

[graceful basin]

Honestly, I don't buy the english is easy because you just be wrong and kinda make it work anyway point

[tardy rain]

Its easier compared to other langs tho

[graceful basin]

German pronunciation is quite nice, though still imperfect

[tardy rain]

I'd say its on the easier side of the european langs

[winter terrace]

>"even with bad grammar and missing ARTICLES someone can get their point across"
>"Read or read? In spoken language, it makes a lot of difference"

?

[graceful basin]

That is quite true

[harsh tundra]

It's not about accent. It's about pronunciation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaos
Just compare heart, beard and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,

Sword and sward, retain and Britain,
(Mind the latter, how it's written!)

Made has not the sound of bade,
Say—said, pay—paid, laid, but plaid.

Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,

But be careful how you speak,
Say break, steak, but bleak and streak,

[winter terrace]

accents affect pronunciation

[graceful basin]

Slavic languages with their 7+ noun forms and gendered forms of everything are probably harder

But also, generally fewer tenses

[winter terrace]

can confirm

[graceful basin]

But I found German easier than english

[harsh tundra]

Before that you said English is easy unless you make it complex. My reply was how there's more than complexity/easiness than articles or grammar - the pronunciation is the hardest thing and it's always hard

[vapid nymph]

from __future__ import braces
braces(True)

def main() {
  print('hello world')
}

if __name__ = '__main__' {
  main()
}

[harsh tundra]

Oh, which language is your native one, if I may know? I'm Polish ^^

[harsh tundra]

Name dunder is missing closing double unders :)

[vapid nymph]

ich spreche mit ingles
( I speak english)
I think, its been a while

[graceful basin]

Pretty sure it's just ich spreche Englisch.

[winter terrace]

pros of russian: no articles
cons: there are 3 genders a word can have (man, woman neutral)
EVERY adjective, verb, adverb, noun-adjective changes with gender
every noun has 5 different forms
commas are a bitch
quoting is a bitch
the are two different types of dashes, one for connecting sentences, one for connecting non-adjectives, but some noun-adjectives are written joined, and sometimes split with a space

[vapid nymph]

ja, du hast Recht

[graceful basin]

Do you also have living man and non living man?

[vapid nymph]

(yeah, you are right)

[harsh tundra]

Polish has 3 grammatical genders
But masculine can behave in 3 different forms depending on whether its a person, a living non-person, or other :)

[graceful basin]

Oh god, 3 of those

We just get 2

[winter terrace]

oh yeah, also 2 different forms in each of the 5 context forms for if the object is alive or not

[harsh tundra]

Nouns have 7 forms

[graceful basin]

Same

[harsh tundra]

Ah, and we get gendered "they"

[graceful basin]

Same

Do you also have 5 verb classes?

[harsh tundra]

I think Russian had just "oni"? No gender for "they"?

[winter terrace]

what the fuck

[harsh tundra]

Remind me what a verb class was

[winter terrace]

no, verbs change based on the noun change

[harsh tundra]

And verb ending also differs not only based on the person but the gender as well

[winter terrace]

same here

[harsh tundra]

http://sgjp.pl/leksemy/#273570/być
That's all forms of "to be"

[graceful basin]

You use them to decide how to sprzężony? a verb

But they aren't always right

They are like grammatical gender for verbs

[winter terrace]

also verbs change with the 5 different noun context forms

[graceful basin]

Also have representative words

[harsh tundra]

Since i already had to open the grammatical dictionary, I will just Google the explanation.... Uh, wait, I still don't get it even after googling. Its either because its too weird or because its almost 2am 😅

[graceful basin]

It is generally not taught to native speakers since you just know it

[winter terrace]

cons of natively speaking russian:
pros of natively speaking russian: more profanities
hearing americans trying to pronounce russian words

also hearing people try to pronounce my long-ass name

[graceful basin]

My language isn't famous enough for people to try and pronounce swears

[tardy rain]

CYKA

[winter terrace]

and then somehow they also struggle with the shortened name

[tardy rain]

Lmao

[low chasm]

Lol

[tardy rain]

Russian swear words are the first thing we learnt from russian friends

[graceful basin]

I can pronounce ř correctly though (and l')

[winter terrace]

of course they are

suka is pretty easy, but most people struggle with blyat

and then babushka

not a single american

not a single one

has been able to pronounce it correctly

[harsh tundra]

More profanities? Isn't it just any slavic language? We make a profanity into any word substitute just by slapping a good prefix

[graceful basin]

Slavic languages are cool

[winter terrace]

we dont have that, but we have many, many words to insult others

[graceful basin]

There is that obscure siberian language with like 30 tenses

[winter terrace]

fun fact: your mom is THE worst insult you can direct towards a native russian speaker

[shell raptor]

Russian has masculine, feminine and neuter. It's also nearly impossible to speak in a gender-neutral way in Russian.

[winter terrace]

but we only have oni

we have on, ona, and ono

[shell raptor]

I suppose it's not slavic, but a Finno-Ugric one?

[winter terrace]

but only one oni

[harsh tundra]

Jbać - to fck
Zajbać - to f-ing steal
Wy... - to f-ing hit
Naj... - to get really f-ing drunk

[graceful basin]

We generally use masculine they for ambiguous gender

I think it's slavic, but I am not 100%

[shell raptor]

ah, yes, we only have polymorphic they

[harsh tundra]

I know. That's what I said. It has that but in third person plural it's only one. While Polish has both masc and fem version (where of course you change to masc when there's even only 1 masc person...)

[shell raptor]

Siberia has only been slavic for a few centuries IIRC

I wish languages didn't have gender at all. Would remove lots of issues

[graceful basin]

I will check rn

[harsh tundra]

Most languages default to masculine forms when unknown/unsure...

[shell raptor]

well, most indoeuropean, I guess

except modern English lol

[harsh tundra]

And for gender-neutral things, I'm actually nonbinary using neuter grammatical gender for myself :)

[graceful basin]

Ah no, it's a ural language

My bad

[harsh tundra]

https://pronouns.page/ BTW, about grammatical gender and gender-neutral stuff

[shell raptor]

I wish we could just rid of gender-related pronouns, and either pick one universal or create some other index.

It's just weird to mention someone's gender when referring to them

[graceful basin]

Or just abolish pronouns

That would solve so much ambiguity

[shell raptor]

well, we would still need some kind of pointer

[shell raptor]

Like here

[graceful basin]

Hereafter referred to as person A not good enough for you?

[shell raptor]

uhhhhh

[tardy rain]

But pronouns technically reduce ambiguity

[graceful basin]

If you only use a single pronoun per gender

[shell raptor]

- It's just weird to mention someone's gender when referring to them
+ It's just weird to mention (λ p. p's gender when referring to p)(^someone)

basically what you proposed

but more concise

something like that

[harsh tundra]

Normalise singular they ❤️ i always use singular they if the gender is not relevant (eg when I was mentioning a story of a friend in #career-advice even though I know the person's gender because it wasn't relevant them)

[sterile sapphire]

if someone is swimming and you're talking to someone

[graceful basin]

I do mostly default to they these days

[shell raptor]

Yeah, it's like polymorphism applied to language

[sterile sapphire]

they ask what they are doing

and you're like

oh yeah they're swimming

it completely works

[shell raptor]

wdym?

[graceful basin]

They ask what they are doing is ambiguous

[sterile sapphire]

a person asks what that person is doing

you can say "they" are doing something

[shell raptor]

is your point that they brings more ambiguity?

[sterile sapphire]

no

I'm trying to say they works too

like I've seen people argue that you can't use "they" to refer to a single person

[shell raptor]

ah

[tardy rain]

Thats a hypothetical tho, if i asked you what Mark was doing, you'd probably say "he is swimming"

[harsh tundra]

Singular they is older than singular you. But you don't see people protesting we bring back thou because "you is ambiguous"

[graceful basin]

Only bad linguists do that

[harsh tundra]

What is Nikita doing?
Oh, they are swimming / xe is swimming
^my pronouns and name. Name doesn't "show" gender

[shell raptor]

Well, the λ letter is older than singular they or singular you, so I think it's the unambiguous winner.

[graceful basin]

I mean,
What is Nikita doing
oh, swimming

You can often use passive and other language tools to just eliminate a subject or object entirely

[harsh tundra]

Okay, now narrate the rest of the evening

[shell raptor]

What is being done by Nikita?

🙂

[tardy rain]

Swimming, breathing, eating, sleeping

Carry on about your business

[harsh tundra]

Mention what I've been doing here in chat, our discussion and all, without using pronouns. I dare you :D you'll have to use Nikita/Nicky a lot - and that's what pronouns are for

[shell raptor]

Or lambdas

[tardy rain]

If its all about ambiguity then the person's name should be used at all times to cut ambiguity down to exactly 0

Where is Nikita?
Nikita is over there

[shell raptor]

Use imperative instead of passive.
-- What would one tell to Nikita in a state of doing nothing to transition to the current state?
-- "Swim!"

[graceful basin]

First, an argument by said person about the inconsistency of english pronunciations. After which, some comparisons of slavic languages, and in the end, discussion of pronouns and their meaningfulness

Context stays forever

[harsh tundra]

That's why I told you to narrate our discussion

[tardy rain]

Language is meaningless, return to grunting

[harsh tundra]

You cannot do it when telling a story

[graceful basin]

Oops, left a pronoun in in place of pronoun

[shell raptor]

I'm not sure what you asked for 👀

[graceful basin]

Though IG removing possessive pronouns is harder

[shell raptor]

just use attribute access notation

[graceful basin]

We all should probably go to sleep, it's past 2/3AM

[harsh tundra]

Say what I've been doing on discord. Or any other thing in third person longer than one sentence or question-answer pair. But without using pronouns.
All the mentioned tricks work for one sentence at most or for question-answer stuff.
Any longer text would require to repeat my name over and over again. And that's what pronouns are for - to reduce the usage of name/descriptive noun and use a short thing in its place

[shell raptor]

n a h

[harsh tundra]

https://en.pronouns.page/:λ

[graceful basin]

You can build your own pronouns using adverbs and adjectives

Aforementioned is one such example

[shell raptor]

/c[a|d]+r/

[harsh tundra]

It will still be some pronoun.
I use gender-neutral pronouns for myself anyways...

[tardy rain]

Whats the problem with using someone's name repeatedly tho

[shell raptor]

.randomcase DRY = Don't Repeat Yourself don't you know

[median dome]

DRy = DoN't REPeAt YOUrSelF dOn'T yOU KNOW

[graceful basin]

It starts sounding stupid

[shell raptor]

maybe it's just unfamiliar

[tardy rain]

Sounds stupid is subjective tho, people might find it stupid to use they for a single person

[shell raptor]

I'm sure singular they sounds weird to people who never encountered it

[harsh tundra]

Some names are long
But some people actually choose to have their name used always instead of the pronoun. It's a so-called nameself pronoun.
https://en.pronouns.page/
"No pronouns / null pronouns / pronounless / nameself
Some people prefer not using any pronouns, instead being referred by name, initial, or by omitting pronouns with passive voice, see: nullpronominal."

As for the note about passive voice, it works for gendered verb endings in Polish but doesn't work in third person because you actually have to mention by whom the action was taken (so pronoun or name)

[shell raptor]

Legal documents actually use something like my lambda bindings FWIW. They define some actors in the beginning of the document, including naming certain people.

[tardy rain]

I've seen legal documents use gendered language and its so weird

[graceful basin]

Because they can't afford the ambiguity that arises from pronouns

[shell raptor]

that makes sense

[tardy rain]

Like, they define the plaintiff/defendant but then use he or she

It looks so unprofessional

[shell raptor]

Computer Networks by Tannenbaum actually defines 'he' to mean 'he or she' in the beginning of the book, which sort of seems alright... but could've just gone with 'they'.

[harsh tundra]

Polish actually can gender nouns referring to people, lol. Just like English theoretically has "businessman" and "businesswoman", or "actor" and "actress", occupations are masculine in grammar so their ending is changed into a feminine one

https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminatywum seems there's also Russian and Ukrainian wiki page for it

[shell raptor]

Russian has a horrible feature that if you refer to yourself, you sometimes have to mention your gender. e.g. "I have seen" is "ja videl" for a male and "ja videla" for a female.

which is present in Polish as well, I guess?

[graceful basin]

Also in czech

[shell raptor]

I don't think there's a standard solution to that in Russian. Referring to yourself as 'we' just sounds like you're a monarch

[harsh tundra]

Yep. Basically any past verb

https://zaimki.pl/english overwiew of the project in English, mentions some of the language tricks we're doing in Polish to refer to ourselves...
As I mentioned somewhere above, I actually use neuter forms for myself... I mean, in places where I'm out of the closet...

"Polish is a strongly gendered language: even saying something as simple as “I did” requires specifying which gender you are.

It's problematic for nonbinary people, because we cannot simply switch one set of pronouns for another to express our identity. We need to come up with a system that also includes neutral forms for adjectives, conjugated forms of verbs and declined forms of pronouns. (...)

This website is an effort to put together in a structured and accessible way the existing ideas for less gendered pronouns and other forms "

[ornate galleon]

henlo

[shell raptor]

Polish is a strongly gendered language: even saying something as simple as “I did” requires specifying which gender you are.
type system analogies entered the chat

[ornate galleon]

oh russian guy

what can i call u

[shell raptor]

refer to me by my memory address

[ornate galleon]

what the fuck

uhh

moscow

[harsh tundra]

Hm. Fae pronoun can be seen as hex. Does it count?

[winter terrace]

what are some dumb robots to build?

[shell raptor]

huh?

[harsh tundra]

Memory addresses are often written as hex. "fae" (a neo-pronoun, as in a created pronoun to replace the gendered ones) is hex-compatible because a, e, f are hex digits

[shell raptor]

ah

well...

[harsh tundra]

Fae is a really cute pronoun ❤️ I know (online) a person who uses fae pronoun and fae's amazing and wholesome ❤️

[carmine niche]

yes

[winter terrace]

fae?

what language?

[carmine niche]

english

[winter terrace]

wut

oh, i see

i've been baited

good shitpost

genuinely thought that maybe there exists a language where fae is a pronoun

[carmine niche]

??

there is

english

[harsh tundra]

No

[carmine niche]

it is a neopronoun

[winter terrace]

neopronoun?

[harsh tundra]

As I said, it's a created pronoun (neo=new) to avoid using gendered pronouns

[winter terrace]

why would you avoid using gendered pronouns?

if you really had to, just use they

[carmine niche]

that is not the only reason they are created

but

[harsh tundra]

Because some people are nonbinary and they don't like they? Or had people complaining about using both singular and plurar they in the same sentence and it's confusing

[carmine niche]

nevertheless

[harsh tundra]

I use both they and xe for myself. They because it's more common and people can use it. Xe because it feels better and behaves like singular, so there's no ambiguity in context where I'm with other people

[winter terrace]

i mean

if enough people start using these pronouns, then sure

[harsh tundra]

It's like calling someone a short nickname so you don't have to repeat their name all the time. So basically a pronoun

[winter terrace]

now hold on

if im talking about someone to someone, i just use "you"

[harsh tundra]

There are also so-called nounself pronouns. It's when someone literally chooses a noun they relate to (usually a nickname or related to) to be used in place of the pronoun

[harsh tundra]

Yes. But third person

[winter terrace]

i still dont get whats wrong with "they"

cant say for others, but ive been called they plenty of times and i dont really have a problem with it

[rough sapphire]

Anyone watch anime here

[harsh tundra]

"Nicky was here before. They talked about language with other people. They mentioned how Polish is weirdly gendered and the alternatives" - the second they can mean me or all of us
As I mentioned before, that's why I choose to also use xe as my pronoun

And as I also mentioned, some people just like other pronouns better

[rough sapphire]

What’s this talk

I thought it was a python server 🤔

[harsh tundra]

Gendered languages and pronouns

[tardy rain]

This is off topic

[winter terrace]

if there's ambiguity, why not just use the nickname again?

[rough sapphire]

Oh

[shell raptor]

Is it really reasonable for someone to protest being referred to as they? It's just a wildcard pronoun. What can I use as a wildcard pronoun then?

[harsh tundra]

But the point of the pronoun is to avoid repetition of the nickname.
Some people just like those pronoun

[rough sapphire]

I wanna be called theytheethem the great

[tardy rain]

I dont understand why someone would care what other people use to refer to them when theyre not even part of the conversation

[harsh tundra]

Nobody says you cannot use it.
I just say some people choose to be referred to by other pronouns. When you know that pronoun

It's like Avery has a "she" in her nick. You wouldn't talk about her using "they", would you? Because you know her pronoun

[shell raptor]

debatable

[rough sapphire]

What is all these pronouns about

Is it gender identity ?

[harsh tundra]

Uh. Sometimes there are more people in the room? And eg your friend tells some other person what you've been doing? As in, tells someone about you in your presence?

[shell raptor]

As I said, I wish gendered pronouns disappeared; and someone's gender is likely irrelevant in a programming dicsussion.

so a uniform reference is a valid option IMO

[harsh tundra]

That's misgendering. Once you know someone's pronouns, using wrong pronouns is disrespectful.
Especially when it comes to trans people
Using singular they when you know trans person's pronouns is still misgendering. It invalidates their gender

[rough sapphire]

🤔

What if someone looks like a he

But wants to be called she

[shell raptor]

That's misgendering. Once you know someone's pronouns, using wrong pronouns is disrespectful.
What if I know someone's gender through some means, but don't want to mention it in a conversation?

[winter terrace]

wuh oh this is starting to get into gender identity

[harsh tundra]

Anyone can use any pronouns. There were many "He-lesbians" in queer history (butch lesbians who were women but used a "he" pronoun). There are nonbinary people who use binary pronouns. There are binary (both cis and trans) people who might want to use a neutral pronoun for themselves

[rough sapphire]

So hillo do u watch anime

[winter terrace]

mr @rough sapphire we are having a very different conversation right now

[rough sapphire]

But doesn’t that get all confusing and too much nicky

[rough sapphire]

Anime is muy importante!

[harsh tundra]

I look like a total mess, usually in a femme way, but I'm a xe/they.
You don't go to a person and say "oh, you look like your name would be Tom, so I'm gonna call you Tom", you use what name they want you to use - same with pronouns

[rough sapphire]

Names and pro nouns are diff I think

[tardy rain]

Idk if i would use what name they want me to use tbh

[rough sapphire]

Femme way means what

Femme is a social construct 😤

So what are u talking about huh

Bigotry smh 🤦‍♂️

[winter terrace]

so guys, what projects have you been working on lately

[rough sapphire]

My school one 😭

It’s going awful

And I’m gonna die

[winter terrace]

sad to hear

[harsh tundra]

If it's unrelated, then sure. I already mentioned that I've been doing this. Somewhere between slavic languages discussion and how someone (you or someone else) wants to abolish gendered language
But once you talk about this person (not as an anecdote where the name is also not needed), you use their name, so you use their pronoun as well (unless the person is not out)

[harsh tundra]

That's just one thing to remember besides someone's name...

[winter terrace]

whats going wrong?

are you procrascinating or something?

[rough sapphire]

How many gender indenties are there Nicky

[harsh tundra]

???

[rough sapphire]

I have been but also my teacher is crappy

[winter terrace]

well damn

[rough sapphire]

And I find coding rlly tough

Now I wanna not exist

[winter terrace]

hey, thats why the help channels exist :)

[rough sapphire]

Yeah I’m taking a break today

[shell raptor]

And is using someone's name because you don't want to use their pronouns misgendering? Or calling them OP?

[harsh tundra]

Everything is a social construct. Your pet doesn't know what day of the week is. Money? Social construct, it only has value because society agreed upon that. And so on

[rough sapphire]

Tomorrow I will continue my quest to innevitably fail my academic year despite my efforts

[carmine niche]

no, although it might be rude in some contexts

[rough sapphire]

Ik but u said in a femme way so if that’s a social construct then what does that even mean

[winter terrace]

protip: google the problem you have and 99% of the time you'll find an answer

google/stack overflow is your best friend in programming

[rough sapphire]

No it’s just that I’m ass at it

[winter terrace]

no no

[shell raptor]

I feel like I will never catch up with trends in English language...

[winter terrace]

unless you're bad at logical reasoning

[rough sapphire]

I’m good at that

I’m just bad at learning

[winter terrace]

then you're good at programming

coding is a very small part of programming

[distant hazel]

@shell raptor what is your native or most fluent language?

[shell raptor]

Russian

[rough sapphire]

Russian girls 😳

[tardy rain]

Lmao wtf

[distant hazel]

^ ?

[winter terrace]

when beginning to learn programming, a lot of it will be coding but as you get more advanced it'll be 90% algos and figuring out solutions to problems

[shell raptor]

what about them?...

[honest star]

I still find it absolutely fascinating that Russian doesn't have articles

[rough sapphire]

I find them attractive

Esp Ukrainian girls

[shell raptor]

thank jesus, wouldn't want articles in addition

[rough sapphire]

🤷‍♂️

[winter terrace]

it makes learning languages with articles a pain

i think

[honest star]

It takes $0 to not be weird about girls

[shell raptor]

learning a language with articles is a pain as well

[carmine niche]

FR

[winter terrace]

my sister's struggling with it, so i have to assume so

[shell raptor]

consider German, where articles have gender and case

[honest star]

I actually find it easier without the articles, it's quite nice. Although I'm only learning in my free time, so like, 3 times a month I'll set aside an hour

Russian cursive is something else though....

[distant hazel]

i did hear german is the worst in this regard lol

[shell raptor]

Finnish has 15 cases or so

[harsh tundra]

OP relates to the role in discussion. So when it comes to that discussion, it's normal to use the role.
Once you know someone's pronoun but deliberately try not to use it, it's sus.
Just like when i used Avery as an example: when you try avoiding using pronouns when describing Avery, it soon becomes clear that Avery's name somehow gets mentioned a lot, even though we know Avery's pronouns from Avery's nickname (sorry, Avery, used you as an example again, and avoiding your pronoun on purpose to show how it looks)

[winter terrace]

doesnt spanish have that also?

[shell raptor]

!waгп @honest star Perl and Bash are not permitted here.

[harsh tundra]

"I look like a mess, usually in a femme way"
= "I don't really care about my looks but I often present what society sees as feminine"

[winter terrace]

>waгп
кек

[rough sapphire]

But what society sees as feminine doesn’t matter

Bc it’s social contstruct

[honest star]

pffft like I know even one thing about perl or bash

What's that meme where like random punctuation has like a 60% chance of being valid bash?/

[winter terrace]

./.sh
200%

[honest star]

Something being a social construct does not mean it doesn't matter or have an impact.

[shell raptor]

is it a... let's say cannon, at an angle?

[tardy rain]

Why are people focusing on the articles thing and not that its in an entirely different script

[rough sapphire]

It does matter if you are going to hold a double standard on them

🤷‍♂️

[winter terrace]

nope, its a valid bash command

[honest star]

I love the Russian alphabet, it's fun.

[winter terrace]

i think

[winter terrace]

its not

[tardy rain]

Its got funny letters

[harsh tundra]

You started it with "someone looks like a he" 🙄

[shell raptor]

Well, it's a valid path, so it's a valid command. Makes sense.

[rough sapphire]

That doesn’t change anything

[winter terrace]

>ь
>Ъ

welcome to your new hell

[rough sapphire]

Also I don’t hold that position

[vapid nymph]

As long as you call them what they want to be called in the specific situation, that's what i think.
So if someone is trans and you know as a friend but they aren't out yet, you call them by the pronouns you want in private vs in public

[rough sapphire]

So it’s not a double standard on my end

[harsh tundra]

This so much. I already mentioned money is also a social construct...

[honest star]

Cyrillic makes a lot of sense to me

[tardy rain]

How, where are you from

[honest star]

uhhhhh realistically the US

[shell raptor]

not before you learn about Е vs Ё

[honest star]

But in actuality South Africa technically

[tardy rain]

Lmao how does it make sense then

[winter terrace]

they seem confusing initially but its really hard to mix them up once you somewhat learn russian

[harsh tundra]

So... You can say about someone "looking like a he" but I cannot describe myself as presenting femme? Where I don't even mention gender nor pronoun, just the adjective? Wtf?

[honest star]

It just does! You look at the letters and you're like "yeah okay that makes sense"

[rough sapphire]

Yeah

Bc I don’t hold such a position

[tardy rain]

Ok maybe im the problem

Maybe its maybelline

[rough sapphire]

So me saying it isn’t a double standard

I thought I made that clear

[harsh tundra]

Yet you started it with saying the first thing

[rough sapphire]

Saying what

[winter terrace]

now the real fun is at vs ь vs ъ

[tardy rain]

Listen, greek letters make all the sense

[harsh tundra]

Here???

[rough sapphire]

Okay and

[tardy rain]

If they didnt they wouldnt put them in maths

[honest star]

hmmmm... need more cyrillic letters in math

[rough sapphire]

I just think gender identity is not a real thing 🤷‍♂️

[harsh tundra]

Okay, you're trolling now. And if not, please read my messages again

[honest star]

sigma should not have as many uses as it does

[rough sapphire]

Trolling how?

[harsh tundra]

No one said anything about gender identity, we were talking about looks and pronouns!

[tardy rain]

Which one

Σ or σ

[shell raptor]

Well, if the text uses Е, you need to know how the words sounds to read it correctly. And in things like names or foreign words, it might be 100% ambiguous.

[honest star]

little sigma

[rough sapphire]

Pronouns from genders

[tardy rain]

Ah yea ok fair, its used way too much

[rough sapphire]

He is male she is female

[harsh tundra]

Please read my messages again

[rough sapphire]

Pronouns are related to gender

[harsh tundra]

Uh, no. Anyone of any gender can use any pronoun

[rough sapphire]

Like what

No they can’t lol

That’s insane

[harsh tundra]

He-lesbians are a huge part of queer history

[tardy rain]

What is going on with the gender thing, we moved on to glorious scripts

[harsh tundra]

Please don't use ableist language

[honest star]

Hi, please be respectful of other users in this community and abide by our code of conduct.

[rough sapphire]

That isn’t ableist

Saying something is insane is ableist now?

Jesus

[harsh tundra]

Always have been. It's using a mental condition in a negative manner.

[rough sapphire]

I’m sorry which rule did I break

[rough sapphire]

Your trolling now

[harsh tundra]

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/08/739643765/why-people-are-arguing-to-stop-using-the-words-crazy-and-insane

[carmine niche]

nah you're just not open to checking your assumptions about language

[tardy rain]

Technically theres no diagnosis for "insanity"

[harsh tundra]

It's been historically used for many conditions

[rough sapphire]

So In this server we are now going to stop people from saying “that’s crazy man”

Or that’s insane wow

[honest star]

Please be respectful of other users as it outline in our code of conduct. This is an inclusive community.

[rough sapphire]

I don’t remember being disrespectful

[shell raptor]

Ackchually, I don't remember the specifics, but in some languages grammatical gender is not tied to human gender.

[harsh tundra]

You said pronouns don't matter?

[carmine niche]

in fact, it never was

[shell raptor]

It's just an accidental coupling in some language families

[vapid nymph]

👀 wait why to not say that's insane? Offtopic but I think i do that a lot

[rough sapphire]

It was in relation to saying Insane

Bc it’s ableist

[harsh tundra]

You also mentioned social constructs being not a thing, but I don't see you handing me your money, so I assume you respect at least one social construct

[rough sapphire]

Is the stupidest thing I’ve heard today

[carmine niche]

linguistic gender is not really tied down to constructed gender that much
the only reason we even call it gender is because some german pricks decided to call it that when formalizing the grammar of classical latin

[distant hazel]

so i understand the yick factor of using these words like crazy or insane in the way that we do, but what would you use in casual language to replace those words?

[rough sapphire]

I said that’s insane

And now I’m ableist

[shell raptor]

idk... unbelievable? not so well though out? depending on the context.

[rough sapphire]

Lol

[distant hazel]

unreasonable?

[carmine niche]

asinine, senseless, foolish, nonsensical, obtuse, etc

[vapid nymph]

Wtf does asinine mean?

[rough sapphire]

No thanks

[harsh tundra]

Ridiculous? Absurd? Weird? Outrageous?
English is a rich language

[carmine niche]

indeed it is

[honest star]

"Insane" and "Crazy" can be viewed as ableist. Some people with their mental conditions can be technically be considered "insane" like clinically. So to be respectful/polite you replace it with less charged words.

"Oh wow, that's wild" instead of "that's crazy"
"am I misremembering?" instead of "am I going insane?"

[rough sapphire]

I’m not going to realign all my vocabulary just for someone’s feelings

[honest star]

It costs me $0 to correct my language and I end up not being rude/inconsiderate

[carmine niche]

^^^

[distant hazel]

thoughts on the word “hysterical”?

[rough sapphire]

Cost isn’t an issue

[harsh tundra]

I said that what you said is ableist, not that you are. People can accidentally do/say ableist things. That's why I asked you not to use it

[rough sapphire]

It’s that I shouldn’t have to

It’s not ableist

[vapid nymph]

Yknow, when I say am I going insane I typically think I am lmao 👀 :pleasehelpme:

[honest star]

Hysterical itself it like... meh. Historically it's like "this woman is hysterical, let's lock her up for awhile". Great short story to read is the Yellow Wallpaper.

[rough sapphire]

What’s with the left and creating new words just to make categories to control us

I stg I’ve never heard of the word ableist til last year

[carmine niche]

not our fault lmao

[rough sapphire]

Yeah it is

[carmine niche]

??

[honest star]

creating... new words? "control us"? That's uh.... alright then. Ableist is not a new word. It might be a new word to you. But it itself is not new.

[carmine niche]

^

[rough sapphire]

Bc you create these words as u go along

[carmine niche]

no we don't, really

[tardy rain]

Bruh all words are made up

[rough sapphire]

I’m going to say that’s crazy

[honest star]

I like the Shakespeare method of "hmmmm how do I describe this?.... NEW WORD TIME"

[rough sapphire]

And if you don’t like it 🤷‍♂️

[harsh tundra]

It has a casual meaning but stems from the ableist thing. But it's also been used against me to shame me into hiding my programs (when I was actually suidical in a major depressive episode and my emotions showed up in front of my father... Yup, good parenting)

[honest star]

Language evolving and changing is super interesting. I'm a huge proponent of not having a static "protected" language

[acoustic moss]

protected static void main()

[topaz aurora]

As a non-native speaker I probably won't be able to keep up, although I could argue that most of my English comes from media so there's no real barrier for me to hop across

[clear plume]

Bro what did I come back to

[harsh tundra]

This. The person has been complaining about social constructs when even the words are social consteucts

[tardy rain]

Whats your native lang if you dont mind sharing?

[rough sapphire]

So where do we stop ?

[vapid nymph]

Ppl arguing about using the words insane and crazy when not talking about people who are insane or crasy

[rough sapphire]

If everything is social construct

Is being a child a social construct ?

[ancient wedge]

Hemlock needs more comments.

[topaz aurora]

Filipino or Tagalog

[honest star]

not everything is a social construct?

[distant hazel]

@harsh tundra “hiding programs” ?

[rough sapphire]

What are examples that aren’t

[carmine niche]

rocks

[harsh tundra]

Oh, reducing to absurd. Should I get popcorn?

[clear plume]

I mean I understand how they can be considered ablest, but like I don't think that many people get offended by it.

[rough sapphire]

Still valid

Is being a child social construct or not

[carmine niche]

look up the definition of social construct

[carmine niche]

define being a child

[shell raptor]

Well, yes, we wouldn't kick someone for saying 'idiot', even though a hundred or so years ago it could be used to refer to a mentally unwell person. It has changed its meaning.

[clear plume]

If everything was a social construct, couldn't we literally change everything?

[carmine niche]

i mean, yeah it kinda is

[vapid nymph]

Staff here and such use that's crazy or stuff all the time too~~

[honest star]

I mean... like. Objects, people. A baby is not a social construct...

[tardy rain]

I think people are willfully ignoring the context the words were used here

[carmine niche]

the age at which one ceases to be a child is just made up, it is arbitrary

[rough sapphire]

Why isn’t a baby a construct

[harsh tundra]

That's why I asked about not using it. It's not like I want to ban it. I just don't feel comfortable with it because it's been used against me in the past by my family

[rough sapphire]

When does a baby stop being a baby

[clear plume]

Because it's a real thing lol

[rough sapphire]

No

[honest star]

mmmmmmmmmm I really want to "a-baby-is-a-construct" but I won't

[vapid nymph]

Check dms~~

[shell raptor]

plot twist: 'real' is a construct

[distant hazel]

lol

[median dome]

whaT DEfIneS ReAL?

[topaz aurora]

Most truths are relative to the world we live in, figuratively or literally

[rough sapphire]

I just think the left are going full loco with this all

Oh ur an abelist omggg

[harsh tundra]

Ah, yes, mythical "the left"

[rough sapphire]

Your a transphobe omgg

[clear plume]

I mean I don't think anyone called you an ableist

[honest star]

I generally like the philosophy of "when you know better, do better"

[rough sapphire]

I never said they did

[clear plume]

No one mentioned gender in this convo(that I've seen lol) so...

[vapid nymph]

That's how it started.

[clear plume]

I agree, that's a good standard to follow.

[distant hazel]

you have to go back further chili but only if you really want to

[tardy rain]

There is no truth, reality is only what your faulty senses allow you to perceive

[clear plume]

Ohh

[harsh tundra]

This. I also literally replied to them saying I didn't, that I said they said an ableist thing but that people can do/say ableist things accidentally!

[rough sapphire]

Okay so why point it out?

[clear plume]

Ohh let me guess someone tried to say gender isn't a social construct or something?

[vapid nymph]

#ot1-perplexing-regexing message

[rough sapphire]

Gender is male or female imo

[harsh tundra]

Mods? At this point it seems like a cheap trolling. The person is ignoring my words on purpose and saying things I didn't say? When I directly replied to the messages claiming I did?

[clear plume]

Gender and sex are different things

[rough sapphire]

Desperation

[clear plume]

and even then intersex people exist lol

[harsh tundra]

Science says there are around 7 biological aspects of sex. And one of them is psychological sex aka gender.

[shell raptor]

Spotify in Russia, Belarus, Saudi Arabia and Qatar be like: neeeeh

[clear plume]

Gender is ones sense of self, typically associated with peoples gender expression, whereas sex defines physical attributes and whatnot

[clear plume]

Lol

[vapid nymph]

@clear plume what's ur thoughts on using crazy and insane?

[shell raptor]

and then they brag about diversity statistics in their hiring, when their UI is like that

[vapid nymph]

At the moment, I don't see much wrong with them, so maybe someone could explain it to me?

[harsh tundra]

Not really. Brain is also physical in itself. There is ongoing research about brains and how they define gender

[clear plume]

Well like I use them because they show an extreme reaction but if someone is uncomfortable with it I don't

[clear plume]

Well yes but brains are gendered too

[vapid nymph]

I use them for things that I think are cool, as a reaction. I don't see how that's mean to people who are crazy

[clear plume]

I worded this poorly but I think you get the point

[vapid nymph]

I also say I'm crazy sometimes but that's a different story~~
(if you knew me irl you might agree~~)

[mild abyss]

i can confirm that but yeah there are still ongoing studies but it is highly likely the brain can decide gender

[harsh tundra]

I had this with Revolut. They claim to be such an ally because they released a rainbow card once. But when I got a job offer on LinkedIn, I asked about their antidiscrimination internal policies. I got some generic "oh, we have this" and when I asked about whether some things were covered in there, the recruiter ghosted me

[clear plume]

Mmhm

I've done a fair amount of research on this topic

[shell raptor]

I think 'crazy'/'insane' is changing its meaning, just like 'idiot' as I mentioned above. Nobody would call a mentally ill person crazy or insane IME.

[vapid nymph]

^

I agree...

[topaz aurora]

I suppose it's the nature of the word, what is meant by the speaker, and the overall context of the conversation all converging together. Those words are/were used in ableist contexts, but that alone isn't definitive of what is said by someone

[distant hazel]

they would though

[mild abyss]

@clear plume if u feel like your grumpy again, just get enough sleep okay? (off topic)

[distant hazel]

in the US at least

[clear plume]

Lol yeah I'm exhausted but I also hadn't eaten at all earlier so I was also starving and that wasn't helping me lol

[distant hazel]

i also think some would find “idiot” to be problematic as well but not sure

[mild abyss]

it is

[acoustic moss]

what

[mild abyss]

i rarely use it

[acoustic moss]

what an idiot /s

[mild abyss]

until i burst my bubble

[vapid nymph]

When I search for idiot in this server it has fair usage~~
Mostly calling themselves an idiot tho.

[clear plume]

I mean if someone really wanted to make people w/ mental conditions feel bad they would use much stronger language IMO

[harsh tundra]

"nobody"...? With stigma neurodiverse people get, it's actually more common than you think. People can be cruel and even kids refer to those behaving differently as "insane"...

[shell raptor]

Well, I mean, well-meaning people.

[acoustic moss]

Well, I mean, well-meaning

[vapid nymph]

Yep. Crazy/insane have been used that much that saying "you're insane." doesn't mean much.

[distant hazel]

but is that a factor to consider at all?

isn’t this the intent v impact idea?

[vapid nymph]

Like

@Chili#0408 you're insane
isn't that bad depending on when it's used, right all?

[clear plume]

I mean once again, if someone has an issue with those words/feels uncomfortable, I'll gladly not use them, I just don't think many people feel offended by those words.

[harsh tundra]

A lot of words are.
Even "stupid" has ableist roots (being in a stupor). That's why it's not like anyone wants to ban people just for using the words, it's about being sensitive to those around you. I have been personally affected by things like "insane", so I asked for it not to be used there (in relation to my words)

[vapid nymph]

That's sensible

[mild abyss]

unless chili have an insane clip of a flick shot in some fps game, i will call her insane

[clear plume]

It's a shame that people use those types of words to hurt others. that sort of behavior is nasty and should never happen.

[vapid nymph]

Although gay has made a return as a sexual orientation, yeah?

[clear plume]

I mean those are still really commonly used words nowadays, and it's really sad.

[clear plume]

You mean if?

[distant hazel]

take what you see now and multiply it by 100000 and thats what it was like 10-15 years ago, unfortunately

[clear plume]

(He's talking about a twitch clip I've posted I think)

[distant hazel]

(or, fortunately)

[mild abyss]

yes girl

[mild abyss]

nope havent watched it lol

[rich moon]

dont tell me its valorant

[inland wolf]

it is

[mild abyss]

i was in vc yesterday but i have other things focused on

[rich moon]

hate those 8 yr olds on there

[clear plume]

Yeah, and I'm fortunate enough to not be growing up in a time like that, and I'm sorry to those who were affected by words like that.

[clear plume]

Once you get to higher ranks all of them disappear

[inland wolf]

ikr

thats why i play unrated

[acoustic moss]

damn

[rich moon]

imagine calling urself tenz

[clear plume]

Lmao

[rich moon]

and being absolute trash

[inland wolf]

lol

[clear plume]

Fr

[rich moon]

literally had some dude be called that

[clear plume]

You've seen the clip we are talking about right?

[inland wolf]

imagine not muting annoying people

[harsh tundra]

I'm sensitive about using "insane" to invalidate someone's words because that's how it has been used for me through the years. And because of the stigma relating to mental health, I actually had problems seeking professional help even though I knew I had to see a psychiatrist. Recently I learned that continuous stress impacts brain functions, so my untreated for years depression probably irreversibly changed some things in my brain... (I have to get a neurologist appointment but I've been suspecting my brain cannot just produce the freaking serotonin at this point)

[rich moon]

absolute trash on jett

[distant hazel]

@harsh tundra thx for sharing everything you did today. i was gonna suggest you not waste your breath earlier with the other person lol. but thank you for your perspective & explanations

[clear plume]

Yeah was that other person banned?

[vapid nymph]

Cya all later #ot1-@raw ember-needs-more-comments

[clear plume]

Na he's just muted

[shell raptor]

Just like with types

[vapid nymph]

What the

[inland wolf]

how did u do this

[vapid nymph]

Nfc, and that isn't even hemlock

[inland wolf]

lol

[mild abyss]

hmmm

[topaz aurora]

Can confirm

[shell raptor]

I don't think Rust has higher-rank polymorphism

[mild abyss]

they only needed types but they will never get their types

[shell raptor]

I didn't

[topaz aurora]

T'was accidental

[mild abyss]

to rumble? okie

[inland wolf]

i was born with type theory

[harsh tundra]

It's 4am here and I didn't think I'll fall asleep anyways, so I was just trying to be as calm as possible. Some people can discuss things, but this one started reducing things to absurd and cherry-picking what of my messages they read... So it was a matter of time when either they get bored. 🤷
I think that if I get energy, discussing with such people is not really for them, but for people who might read it - so that the bystanders get some good info as well

[distant hazel]

lol yup i was that bystander

[topaz aurora]

Yep

[distant hazel]

tho i will add that person just did not seem to have the capacity to comprehend your words & their meaning

[clear plume]

I mean they just seemed like a troll in general so it's not worth stressing about them

[distant hazel]

for sure i’m not lol no worries

[harsh tundra]

They used phrases like "the left", so it's more like a brainwashing. Normal thing in my country - we sometimes joke that Polish public TV tries to show more propaganda than North Korea...

[clear plume]

I hate people who use "the left" in arguments

[distant hazel]

for sure being challenged in your way of thinking is hard. and i don’t consider myself old BUT i notice a definite and marked difference in my willingness to be open to other perspectives as i get older

[harsh tundra]

If what government said was true, I would be rich from all those payments I should've received from Soros or whoever they say funds me

[clear plume]

Ahh yes, the side that tries to educate everyone on all sorts of people. What a horrible group of people.

[harsh tundra]

I'm just trying to live my life, so all I want is some basic human decency.

[clear plume]

That's completely reasonable, and I'm sorry people can be such jerks about that.

I don't think anyone deserves to be treated like that, and it sucks that people are.

[harsh tundra]

So things like name or pronoun are just basic things... Let me find one of the first messages I wrote to that person, it was about this exactly

[clear plume]

Ugh people get so triggered about gender and pronouns

[harsh tundra]

"""You don't go to a person and say "oh, you look like your name would be Tom, so I'm gonna call you Tom", you use what name they want you to use - same with pronouns"""

[clear plume]

I mean the thing about that is sometimes it can be more hurtful then helpful to ask someone what their pronouns are(irl at least)

[harsh tundra]

And they say "the left" is sensitive and triggered, while we just sit there, yes XD

[clear plume]

The way I look at things like gender and sexual orientation is, it's not my life, so why should I care?

[harsh tundra]

That's why we should normalise asking everyone about their pronouns or introducing ourselves with pronouns. Because asking just people who "seem not to be cis" is what is problematic

[distant hazel]

people care even if it’s not their business bc it can directly conflict with their worldview, and worldviews shape everything from government to entertainment

[harsh tundra]

This. Just basic human decency is everything we need.

[clear plume]

Yeah, I 100 percent agree.

[clear plume]

Yeah, and it's unfortunate. But it still happens.

[harsh tundra]

I don't post my pronouns in my nickname only because this server is huge and I don't feel comfortable to do it. I know some people are like that and I don't want to deal with such people out of the blue, just because they saw my username, you know? Here it was already a topic of language and all, so I was in a mood to discuss stuff

[clear plume]

Yeah. I only do it because I'm active enough in vc that I don't want to have to have an awkward conversation with everyone who asks

Yet even still I get messages like "you sound like a boy, are you a boy pretending to be a girl", and it's just like please fuck off

I also commonly get the question, "are you trans", so it's something you have to deal with when you have your pronouns in your bio/nick

[shell raptor]

Maybe I'm weird, but the idea of having to mention the person's gender when referring to them seems a bit weird to me. It's like... seemingly unrelated things, coupled.

It just seems natural because we've been born to a language that does this

Like, if one designed a language from scratch, it would be a bizarre design decision

[clear plume]

I mean yeah things would be much faster if gender just wasn't mentioned In conversations

[harsh tundra]

We're kinda getting back to the discussion from... 2h ago?

[shell raptor]

I guess... let's not move back to the beginning of the loop

[harsh tundra]

I think my mind is finally starting to get tired (it's 4:30 here, oops), so I think I'll be going anyways

[shell raptor]

I'm ducked

I mean, gnomed

[harsh tundra]

Good night-or-whatever-time-it-is-where-you-are ;P

[vapid nymph]

Do you mean fucked?

Apple: No they meant ducked

[shell raptor]

I mean completely annihilated by my time schedule, yes

[clear plume]

Apple rly do be like that

[shell raptor]

I'm on a normal keyboard, so...

quack

[vapid nymph]

Apple sux
Apple: did you mean is the best

[tardy rain]

Why be a duck, apple, when you can be goose

[vapid nymph]

👀 do you mean you ducking censor yourself? :quack:

[edgy crest]

ducks are cooler

[vapid nymph]

I like to duck ducks. It's a fun pasttime

[shell raptor]

🥶

[vapid nymph]

(||Note: Google vs ducking||)

DUCKING duck images!

(Searching duck images)

Please don't get the wrong idea

Oh no

[inland wolf]

fax

[vapid nymph]

Did slowmode move to ot1 now

THERE IS ONLY ONE SLOWMODE LESS OT CHANNEL NOW

[shell raptor]

!sm r #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[royal lake]

✅ The slowmode delay for #ot1-perplexing-regexing is now 0 seconds.

[inland wolf]

and now

silence

[edgy crest]

[clear plume]

Lol

[inland wolf]

lulw

[vapid nymph]

No no

I liked my pain could you put it back 🥺

[rough sapphire]

i was bored in rust

[tardy rain]

You gonna post in #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare too?

[rough sapphire]

yes, thanks for the reminder

[shell raptor]

<#esoteric-python message>

[rough sapphire]

GAAAAAAAAH

[shell raptor]

I wish I could automate that

I suppose it's doable, if you limit yourself to an expression (in Python)

[vapid nymph]

@shell raptor thanks for the nickname idea

Whup was @rough sapphire

[rough sapphire]

what?

[vapid nymph]

My nickname

Thanks for the idea

[rough sapphire]

ok

[edgy crest]

@vapid nymph wouldnt Julia rusted my python be better? golang isnt a real object

or a real word

[young shoal]

it does happen to be a language though

[vapid nymph]

^

@edgy crest @young shoal I made it worse

[acoustic moss]

https://tenor.com/view/umm-confused-blinking-okay-white-guy-blinking-gif-7513882

[worldly forge]

where is the girls

[last mantle]

heh?

[cosmic sierra]

no coding for a month

[last mantle]

sad

[tranquil orchid]

You still have another arm

One handed typing time

[high zealot]

Indeed

[mild abyss]

what comments?

[mild abyss]

sad times. hoping for your successful recovery

[rancid haven]

is it comfortable

[rough sapphire]

Ayo

[jade flare]

lol

[rancid haven]

one hand six appendages/bones

[shadow ridge]

Hey @trail juniper, sorry for the ping, but I'm InvisibleOS on GitHub. How long do I have to make the code?

[trail juniper]

No rush, take all the time you need

All that's required is that you be around to respond within a day or two if someone pokes you on github for progress

[shadow ridge]

Alright thanks, I have 5 exams the next week so I'll try to make them after I'm done with my exams.

[trail juniper]

Or if you're taking a break, to let us know

Yeah that's fine

[shadow ridge]

Alright 👍

ty

[trail juniper]

good luck with your exams :D

[shadow ridge]

thanks a lot!

[honest pawn]

.topic dead chat

[median dome]

**What's your favourite type of weather?**

Suggest more topics here!

[rough sapphire]

The one that's cold

Coldness is better than hotness

Although snow takes a whole lot of work

[honest pawn]

Yeah I agree

Though cold destroys the skin on my hands

[harsh tundra]

Not this that I have now. Too strong cold wind. I like chilly temp but cold winds are awful

[honest pawn]

60° F is the best

Yes I'm one of those people who think in imperial units

[rough sapphire]

Heresy! /s

[inland wolf]

same

[mild abyss]

24C weather

with no rain

[edgy crest]

the time when its about to rain

the smell of moist soil

with a hot beverage in a cool balcony

[clear plume]

Omg yes

[inland wolf]

i live in the city :'(

no soil only concrete

[twilit shore]

Before rain and 60-70 F (yes me is American) with sun

[frosty raven]

Here is some artwork I did

[low chasm]

Cool, that looks great :D

[sterile sapphire]

looks nice

[wary spire]

Awesome

[twilit shore]

now that’s hot

[frosty raven]

Thanks :D

[acoustic moss]

wow that looks really cool

[honest pawn]

Finally
good, clean, art

[last mantle]

Dope

[proper dune]

@hybrid rock @strange musk I'm currently working in a soft robotics group working on creating new soft robot structures based on granular jamming and controlling them using these neuroscience methods called Central Pattern Generators

Currently I haven't touched the CPG part, mostly doing hardware development. Creating piezoelectric signal conditioning circuits, 3d printing soft structures and granular materials with super fancy 3d printers, writing data acquisition firmware for STM32s

Collecting data etc

Once I've done the hardware stuff, I'll look at CPG based methods to control things

[strange musk]

behaviors like walking, swimming, flying, ejaculating,
Uhh..I dont see how that last one integrated into robotics

[sterile sapphire]

interesting

[strange musk]

what function is to be implemented in robots that require CPG? becase from the Wiki they don't seem to be very usefull

that generate repetitive patterns of motor behavior independent of any sensory input or feedback.
@proper dune

[graceful basin]

I guess like idling

[honest pawn]

To create copies and transfer data
duh

[strange musk]

I could see them prob being used in swarm robotics

but other than that 🤷

[proper dune]

It depends on the robot. I'll send some robots that use it.

This is the canonical CPG for robots example https://science.sciencemag.org/content/315/5817/1416

They were able to recreate complex stuff like gait transitions

[strange musk]

that def looks cool

[proper dune]

This is a more recent paper for UAVs with CPG modulated motors https://youtu.be/QXs99GftcoM

And here's a Hexapod from my research group that uses CPGs for its walking controller https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.00523

My application is unrelated to all of those, it's not even for locomotion exactly

[strange musk]

Wow, that looks kinda like doraemon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKOI_lVDPpw

[proper dune]

Indeed, that's closer to what I'm working on

I'm more physics/hardware focused, trying to exploit more granular physics phenomena to add capabilities to those

[strange musk]

could it be extended to holding something that's much more wide and heavy?

[proper dune]

Think more dexterity. Right now it's only got two holds. Hold vs don't hold

It'd be nice to have manipulation capabilities, being able to exert more precise forces or execute manipulative motions

And to do that I'm taking advantage of other granular physics effects which is mostly an unexplored area

Ideally we'll have applications in fields like agricultural robotics

[strange musk]

Most factory stuff ripe for automation doesn't require full dexterity. Even in the agricultural use?

[proper dune]

I don't want to mention too much what I'm doing, but we have some applications in mind

[strange musk]

sad 😦

[proper dune]

As an industry application focused national lab, we do most stuff as a combination of pure research + industry research

So we have direct industry partners we work with

[strange musk]

hmm...the amount of literature on he subject is underwhelming

atleast for uneducated folks like me

[proper dune]

There's some more if you know the key words :P but yes it is generally an underexplored research area

[strange musk]

so jamming makes a viscous fluid...stiff?

and granular jamming does the same with more granular fluids?

[proper dune]

Depending on the pressure granular material is under and the amount of vibration it's going under (vibration being equivalent to temperature of a material), it can either be free flowing (eg quicksand, a silo full for pharmaceutical capsules, etc) or become rigid (normal sand on the ground)

It's very very analogous to the freezing/melting phase transition

High pressure leads to solidifying, low leads to fluidization.

High temperature (more vibration) leads to fluidization

[strange musk]

yeah, but how do you apply the pressure to do the same, forming different shapes?

like if I vibrate a sack full of sand, how do I make the sack produce 2 stick-shapes figures?

the pressure has to be applied at very specific point to create specific shapes

[proper dune]

You can't make arbitrary shapes

Vibration helps it fluidize, you need to shape it some other way before you freeze it again

[strange musk]

yeah, how do I shape it? without external pressure (like in the case of robotic hands)

[proper dune]

You can't really, you can really only shape it by putting it in a container of the shape you want

It's just like a fluid

[hybrid rock]

Very cool stuff.

[strange musk]

so, in the robotic hand, they pressed it on the object, then solidified the fluid??

[hybrid rock]

I want those 3d printers xd

[strange musk]

seems a simple phenomena with pretty cool uses

[proper dune]

Oh man, you'd love what I have. My printer is the fanciest thing in the world

It's like a 500k Stratasys and let's me print with wild precision and I can print a continuum of rigid to super soft things

[strange musk]

😮

pics?

[proper dune]

So I can print a soft gripper with a rigid backing and 3d printed grains of any softness on the inside on a single print

[strange musk]

I am not sure how that's physically possible. by lowering the heat, you make some stuff more dense?

[proper dune]

It mixes resins as it prints

[strange musk]

so cool! 👌

[proper dune]

https://www.stratasys.com/3d-printers/j8-series for reference @strange musk

[strange musk]

With over 500,000 unique colors, realistic texture simulation, flexible and transparent materials
You've got to be kidding me

[proper dune]

Yeah $500k is pretty useful

[strange musk]

so your org gave you a half million printer? that seems pretty generous (even if for a limited time)

[proper dune]

My group is looking at buying a new fancy printer which uses pellets instead of filament to print which makes very soft materials a lot easier

[proper dune]

It's not mine specifically, it's for the whole group, but yeah.

[strange musk]

even then, $500,000

[proper dune]

Good research requires... Sacrifices

In the last 2 years, we basically burnt through money we got through a research initiative collecting up manufacturing capabilities

[carmine niche]

OwO

[proper dune]

We have everything from small prusas and form 3s to fancy Stratasys printers then a few more experimental stuff

We even have one of those PCB 3d printing Volterra things

No one's even bothered opening it

[strange musk]

that seems...wasting $$$

[proper dune]

Nah, it's good stuff. Soft robotics is lit

[carmine niche]

i'll take it 👀

[proper dune]

Plus for a world class robotics group, we had surprisingly little fancy manufacturing capability before

It's nice to have it now

[carmine niche]

whats the fucking dust one

[strange musk]

who doesn't love new toys?

[carmine niche]

mmmm

what the hell is it called

[proper dune]

We've generally focused more on robotics theory and some software, and mostly reused modular hardware in the past

Now all we need is a fancier electronics lab

[carmine niche]

MMMmmmmMmmMmMMm

[proper dune]

So I don't have to go to the distributed sensing and systems group's lab for the fancy stuff

[carmine niche]

SLS

thats what its fuckin called

[strange musk]

next-up --> the robotics guys need a tesla for their project

[carmine niche]

Selective Laser Sintering

[proper dune]

Lmao, the lecturer for the course I TA just bought a Lexus for a course

[carmine niche]

not to be confused with Space Launch System

[strange musk]

even then it seems cheap

[strange musk]

👀

[proper dune]

He's making a self driving car course for mechatronics/control theory people

[carmine niche]

better not be using python smh my head

[strange musk]

I wanna enroll 🖐️

[proper dune]

Your wish is granted, it's probably MATLAB

[rough sapphire]

i

[carmine niche]

[rough sapphire]

matlab sounds familiar

[sterile sapphire]

I got the old man's car

[carmine niche]

matlab is worse than python

[sterile sapphire]

I got the jazz guitar

[proper dune]

He was looking at buying a cheaper tiny European car but the people wanted to sell it as a subscription, etc and he said "fuck it for that price I can buy a Lexus with the money I was given"

[strange musk]

matlab is pretty good IMO

[proper dune]

So he did

[carmine niche]

matlab is proprietary paid software, which is stimky

[proper dune]

MATLAB has amazing capabilities

[strange musk]

yeah, that happens in EU

[proper dune]

Just not for the people here

[sterile sapphire]

you can get matlab for free

student discount

[proper dune]

MATLAB is used a lot in industry

A large majority of automotive code is almost certainly C/C++ auto-generated from MATLAB

[strange musk]

nope.

[proper dune]

Nah it still costs for students

[strange musk]

telsa uses pytorch