#wiki-related-chatroom

1 messages · Page 13 of 1

proper kernel
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Wait I can fix it myself lol, Ill do that, just gotta make an account

bold plover
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To be fair, for a while it felt like you were shooting bean bags at enemies.

modest fjord
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Wait, there wiki about DRG?

proper kernel
modest fjord
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Also why pheromone jar ain't got refference to tf2?

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In wiki

tame plover
tame plover
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I don't think it's that unlikely, I never started counting breeders untill I saw this message and today I saw 3 breeders in haz 5 1p 8 eggs. But I am fairly certain I've seen 3 before

acoustic scarab
modest fjord
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but it's looks like jarate

short cloud
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It's been explicitly said so.

zealous kayak
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is it worth it maintaining the fandom wiki, or just entirely work on wiki.gg?

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since the goal i assume is to entirely move over

short cloud
zealous kayak
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alright, good

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one less fandom wiki

zealous kayak
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so for updating articles that are out of date, what should I put in the {{Updated}} template? it doesn't have S04 listed, but is that still valid so the out of date category can get removed from the page?

acoustic scarab
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The S4 page is missing the patch notes from several patches, so it can still be considered out of date

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Otherwise I don't really follow you question

weary sonnet
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I think he means what tag should he use in the updated wiki template to mark a page as up to date.
If that is your question, you can write S4 or S04, they are not in the template description, but they are in its code already. I will add them in the description for clarity.

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There is also Timeless if a page is expected to not change no matter the game version.

acoustic scarab
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Can anyone confirm?

Screenshot_20230920-103140.png
short cloud
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In my experience they don't seem to shoot when afflicted by those STEs but that could just be me imagining things.
Does the slow affect the attack speed ?

weary sonnet
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afaik it doesn’t affect it directly, the slow affect movement and maybe rotation speed, but with a stationary enemy and dwarf I saw no changes last time I tested it.

short cloud
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Guess I'll just test it out.

sterile crescent
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As I understand it, any damage they receive will interrupt their attacks, Status DoTs just do so in a nice repeated manner

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In effect, stun locking them

weary sonnet
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Did a quick check in the files and couldn’t find anything like that, but I could easily have missed it since I don’t have time for a proper search atm.

trail gust
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Fat boy radiation and neurotoxin likely won't be blocking it 100% because of too long applyeffectsinterval.

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But short tick DoTs do block them.

weary sonnet
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At least the tests seems to show that there is some kind of interruption linked to damage or being hit, so it is worth digging more later.

white plume
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I thought this was well-known. I was also under the impression that since damage interrupts their attacks DoT effect basically stop them from attacking

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At least the fast-ticking ones

floral drift
wicked cave
floral drift
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doubtful -- when i measured pickaxe attack rate, it had an interval of ~0.85 sec

zealous kayak
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and takes it off potentially out of date

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but it does seem to be correct now

sterile crescent
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Sorry for the ping, fat fingered enter before turning off the @

floral drift
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yes, do test it. i'm curious to know the results -- if a 4man team can handle a korlok using only pickaxes. normal attack (with canceling) on Sprouts, and Power Attacks on the Heart when it opens.

it would be a fascinating new challenge

zealous kayak
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Okay, I've done some testing since I got off work

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I'll edit and upload videos in a minute or two, but it is possible to do it

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Because:

  1. Korlok Sprouts, when you are hugging them, obscure LOS from other Korlok Sprouts in a pretty wide angle, so even solo you would get only the one you're standing at shooting you with good spawn locations
  2. It's actually better to not do perfect melee attacks/cancels because it's not consistent enough to prevent attacks. You actually can interrupt the sprouts very late in their attack animation, so it's better to stagger your attacks slightly so you have a better chance of hitting them during the attack animation. This makes it possible to only use normal melee (no power attack) on one and not take any damage.
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It won't prevent them from attacking because the damage ticks (even with perfect cancelling) aren't close enough to stop the attacks, but damage will interrupt one, even so late into its animation you still hear the firing sound (but take no damage)

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The only issue I can see is healing pods (which also have hitboxes large enough to obscure LOS from sprouts) since they have significantly less health than the sprouts, yet take less melee damage (45.8 sprouts vs 34.4 on haz 5)

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But healing pods take a very long time to start healing vs when you can attack them, so it's possible to kill them before they even start healing at all

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Like, just to illustrate how large the angle is for sprout hitboxes blocking LOS

20230920214000_1.jpg
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None of the four sprouts here behind the one front of me attack me

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And actually, the sprouts can friendly fire, which deals 12.5 damage, so while insignificant that's also something I discovered

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And actually hitting the head deals more damage (64.2) which may be known but that's good to know

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for example

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I'm using invuln but that one I was meleeing (if I wasn't in invuln mode) wouldn't have hit me

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The yellow splash never came up which indicates the projectile explosion

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Which you can see towards the end when I was pressing my shadowplay button

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Now with four players it will be much harder because of health scaling but still, it's definitely possible with enough effort

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Especially if everyone saves their power attacks (with damage up instead of charge time) for the core itself

trail gust
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You can block their projectiles with pickaxe too.

zealous kayak
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I knew you could shoot them like spitballers, but I've never tried to hit them

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Makes sense though

supple radish
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i think this should be updated

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i have this but it may not be clean enough

Warning_mactera_plague_icon.png
sterile crescent
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Is that from the game files? It looks about right, and if thats the best resolution they have, then its good enough for us

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You are right though; the file on the wiki was last updated in 2019

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Also, on the note of things to update; anyone have the numbers on the infection amounts from the new rockpox enemies?

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The status table doesn't seem to have been updated

sterile crescent
zealous kayak
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I'd say it'd make for a good challenge

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using only melee

sterile crescent
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For sure; would be quite the feat

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Would depend a lot on terrain exploitation though

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So the angles line up reasonably

zealous kayak
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it'd also be a lot easier than when I tested since you'd (ideally) have four people and also terrain would help to block more

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so korloks would target you less and also not be able to see you more often

sterile crescent
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mhmm; look forward to seeing the first madman to do it on Youtube

zealous kayak
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the angle at which they can't target you on level ground when you stand behind another korlok is pretty insane though

sterile crescent
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Yeah; I wonder if its just a cube thats stretched around them for LoS checks

zealous kayak
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and also the fact healing pods can ALSO block LOS completely

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at least on level ground

sterile crescent
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Short king supremacy drilldance

zealous kayak
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but I don't think the hitbox is a perfect cube

supple radish
sterile crescent
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Perfect, thank you. Will update the file now then

zealous kayak
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because the image I showed earlier, when I would jump, it would allow the others in the background to shoot at me

supple radish
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i just took the mask and copied it

zealous kayak
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so either it's not a perfect cube shape or something else allows them to shoot at me when on ground level vs not

supple radish
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its not uniform red but you cant tell if you zoom in

zealous kayak
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because I also know the core obstructs LOS

supple radish
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unless you zoom in*

sterile crescent
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And done

supple radish
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it just had a few jaggies nad the red isn't uniform because i just did a slap dash in GIMP with it

sterile crescent
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I don't think any of the files on the wiki are 100% perfect either, based on cursory inspection

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Probably did the same thing for the rest, in fact

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Would need to ask Cyrob tho

zealous kayak
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I had the same issue when trying to pull files from other games where models/images had masks layered on by the game engine

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mostly obra dinn, the actual pocket watch model for example has almost no actual detail since the in-game rendering and masking (that creates the sort of commodore 64/Apple II type 3D effect) is done in engine

sterile crescent
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Makes sense

zealous kayak
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the actual model itself was pretty much plain white

sterile crescent
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Similar issue with the weapon frameworks, tbf; thats a major reason why they haven't been updated in ages

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Frameworks and paintjobs, rather

zealous kayak
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does make sense why newer ones look better

supple radish
zealous kayak
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and also why custom models mess with paintjobs

supple radish
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this is not accurate, the drink doesnt change on mission rotation, its just random

zealous kayak
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it does change on rotation

supple radish
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it changes every time you re load

zealous kayak
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but if you're in the space rig when rotation happens, it won't change until you go do a mission and come back

sterile crescent
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Yeah; its on reload

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I can correct that

zealous kayak
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I'm fairly certain if you do a mission fast enough to not hit mission rotation the drink will be the same

supple radish
zealous kayak
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and if you reload by hitting disband team or updating your mods

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it will rotate

sterile crescent
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Or, if you would like to make an account roflos, you can make your first contribution that way

supple radish
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i was gonna put the special on there too but found that it is just random

sterile crescent
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I think at some point it was actually mission rotation; that was before I started playing, though

zealous kayak
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I honestly haven't paid enough attention to see when it actually does rotate

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because sometimes after missions it won't

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but sometimes it will

supple radish
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thats just because it's rerolling the same one by chance

sterile crescent
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^

supple radish
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its a coincidence

sterile crescent
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The fun of statistics

zealous kayak
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I'd have to go into sandbox and do a ton of missions tomorrow

sterile crescent
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You don't even need to do that to see lol

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You can just go into the main menu solo and "disband team"

zealous kayak
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I don't mean doing disband team

sterile crescent
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Ah

zealous kayak
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I mean just joining and abandoning like

supple radish
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it rolls a new one every time you load the space rig

zealous kayak
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5 missions in a row without rotation changing to see if it changes

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which I can do on not sandbox

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I just prefer to keep testing things in sandbox

sterile crescent
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Godspeed; can't hurt to be sure. 99% sure it'll change though, just because it will always be reloading the station

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Which is all the game cares about

zealous kayak
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I'll actually just do it now since it shouldn't take long

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I do go into work late tomorrow so shouldn't be an issue

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So, going into sandbox and abandoning appeared to change it. As did going to sandbox and using return to space rig instead of abandoning. Joining an actual mission via mission select and abandoning it also did, so that really only leaves completing a mission, which likely would not change anything.

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Feels weird for it to actually do this, because there's been times playing several missions keeping the same one which would statistically be very low, but still technically possible

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Because each time I've done it in this sandbox save so far it's never gotten the same one twice in a row, so if there is anything to it, it's probably in completing a mission, which I haven't tried in sandbox yet

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Also could partially be because I'm solo so it doesn't keep me in the same lobby/instance when leaving/abandoning? Not really sure about that

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But if it does truly actually change after every mission no matter what, then something tells me the random selection isn't actually random

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Finally did get one twice in a row after about 20 reloads

sterile crescent
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There are 8 options, so each load you only have a 1/8 chance of getting the same one. That seems reasonable (though unlucky)

zealous kayak
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well that's the funny thing about exponentials is that they quickly get out of hand

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so it probably could be truly random

sterile crescent
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yeah, exactly

zealous kayak
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which is likely

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but anecdotally I've had it not change for hours before

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which could just be unlucky

sterile crescent
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Get a stupidly large sample size and even the rarest occurance becomes expected

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Also, we tend to remember the weird cases better than the common ones

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Doing a quick check using Binomial in Python, you had about a 27% chance of a string of 20 or more occuring before a repeat

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granted, its 1am here, so its not unlikely that my math is flawed, though

zealous kayak
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I do find it funny that you technically can actually melee korloks though

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tomorrow I'll have to get actual data on that

sterile crescent
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Correction; its about 7%. I did screw up the math, and did it by hand to validate

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Still reasonably likely, just not that likely

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I was using CDF rather than PDF by mistake

sterile crescent
supple radish
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👍🏿

sterile crescent
proper kernel
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Does the next swarm spawn immediately after the Halt period? Or is there an additional randomization, and the Halt period is just the minimum between swarms.

glacial topaz
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iirc, should be Halt + hazard randomized value,
so I guess can't be said "minimum" as the randomized value is never 0 seconds
I guess like 2 minutes for halt, and 1-3 minutes random value (fictional values), making it 3-5 range

proper kernel
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Prob should add a bit of clarification stating that the next wave starts after the Halt period, in addition to the note that bugs dont spawn during.

glacial topaz
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it already says "being a sum of both" though

proper kernel
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Sorry, I meant that this part:

...Often times no further enemies will spawn for a brief moment, giving players a chance to recuperate.

This halt period's duration depends on the previous Swarm (if there is not a previous Swarm, it will use the Start Delay value after some time) and the Hazard level (being any value within the interval), being a sum of both:

Doesn't make it clear whether the "sum of both" is the time until bugs Can or Will spawn.

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If I just have poor reading comprehension then feel free to ignore me, but If I fail to understand the intention then there are probably also others who don't understand and would benefit from clarification.

floral drift
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help me remember -- is the current understanding that missions that have Lithophage Outbreak warning are disallowed from having the Rockpox events? (Large Meteor, Smol Meteor Shower, Corrupter)

the reason i ask -- last night i did a Litho Elimination, and also had a Smol Meteor Shower event. if that contradicts the current understanding, then we might need to have further investigation.

analog rock
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I was under the impression that the smol meteors were under no restrictions, and could spawn in any mission

sterile crescent
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Smol meteors aren't; I have had them multiple times

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Large meteors though (and Harold), yeah

viral surge
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This information about swarmers in the Radioactive Exclusion Zone is false. I remember also seeing another source claim it's their bite attack that inflicts radiation, but that doesn't seem to be true either.
Is this something that was in an older version and got changed?

firefox_2023-09-21_22-44-28.png firefox_2023-09-21_22-45-28.png
zealous kayak
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the one about them leaving behind radioactive clouds definitely isn't true

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the maggots do I believe but not swarmers

viral surge
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I suppose it's possible their bite attacks do radiation type damage so that Elemental Insulation would resist them, but they don't visibly inflict any radiation buildup.

acoustic scarab
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[–]Snoo61755 1 point 56 minutes ago

There’s a hidden ‘roll’ on every mission that determines how powerful swarms can be. This is why some days you get Haz 5s that make you question whether you set it to the right difficulty, and other days you get Mactera clouds so dense that you can’t even miss no matter where you aim.

It applies to the DD and EDD too. This week was very mild, but there’s some weeks where you need to bring certain weapons to deal with the crowd.

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Does anyone have an idea if any of this can be construed as true?

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LIke, yes, swarms are drawn like from a deck

analog rock
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As far as I know, the only "roll" pertaining to swarms is the mob pools...

acoustic scarab
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But I haven't heard anything about a "strength roll" or an "intensity" roll?

analog rock
glacial topaz
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which type of mission even ??
guess mining expendition, and seems quite easy to test
do they even give any variable names or values, or testing methods ?
otherwise I would think they might have confused something

acoustic scarab
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Well, I asked in the thread, let's see how far out of the ass this person drew those facts

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Looks like nothing to worry about

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Maybe what they're thinking of is EncounterDifficulty or EnemyNormalWaveDifficulty, both of which are rolled from bins. I don't know a ton about spawning mechanics compared to others in the technical community, but the wiki is miles behind even the basic technical community document, and I think there's a more advanced one in PDRG.

bold plover
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There's a few things that affect the sense of enemy presence in missions. I am unfamiliar with that group but from what I am aware of from extensive modding:

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Primarily it depends on the mission type, they define a baseline modifier to how many enemies can be within the encounter pool (map gen room spawns), this is specified as 'stationary' and anything that can move as 'enemy'. This changes quite a bit between mission types but it does not roll in vanilla. Then there is a check for allowing enemies in certain rooms or not when the map generates, so usually the first / main spawn room will not have enemy spawns but depending on mission type this can change (Egg Hunt vs Escort). Room generators are also capable of having additional enemy spawns in their room features list but I have not looked into whether or not this is true for vanilla but it is an option. Then there is player count affecting spawns, then the randomly rolled aforementioned encounter difficulty values which is affected by what is available in the pools (more difficult enemies take up more of the spawn 'resource' pool so less = more cheap enemies). Wave difficulty (quantity and enemy type?), timed swarms, encounter difficulty (map gen enemies) and enemies spawned by events like hacking, defense, seasonal item discovery, mini mules I believe all scale with difficulty as well.

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Oh and there are base mission mutators and warnings that affect it too.

floral drift
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i would love to know what stuff that PDRG has discovered

acoustic scarab
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I expressed that very sentiment in the comment

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Yeshman is one of the sensible folks, you can have a conversation with them

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Even though I think Yeshman makes it sound more dramatic than it is, there is a kernel of truth there

short cloud
acoustic scarab
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There is also GluphyssyBestPussy chiming in, saying they were banned from here for saying that vanilla balance doesn't matter

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I have a sneaking suspicion that wasn't the reason, but I'm not going to press the matter

short cloud
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so yeah, no point in that

acoustic scarab
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We won't? The logs should be there.

short cloud
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I don't have the user ID

acoustic scarab
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But in any case, yeah, there's a lot of resentment going on

short cloud
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I'm on the PDRG discord and I can tell there's a lot going on.

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And i don't want to be mean but there's a lot of assumption and just general ignorance thrown around, as well as expectation that are entirely different from what the devs actually want.

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As well as a lot of arrogance.

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So yeah, that doesn't mash well with the rest of the community, which tends to be a lot more casual.

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Those people weren't pushed away, they pushed themselves away

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(and for some : their stupidity did, that's how they got banned)

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That's not the case for everyone of course, I'm just talking in general terms.

floral drift
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ok, getting back on topic -- so, do we want to update the Wiki's swarm page with Banagement's explanation, and other info?

acoustic scarab
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Sounds like a pretty important update, I'd like there to be a review of proposed additions before they go live.

glacial topaz
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I remember starting to work on adding that sort of stuff, though I put it on halt for thinking more feedback would be better

zealous kayak
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I mean, anecdotally some missions do feel like the enemy intensity is worse and that sometimes there's more swarmers or more mactera

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but could just be dumb luck, I'd have to play a mission several times with the same seed to see if it's true or if it's just a random roll on mission start

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seeds don't affect the special enemy types chosen that can spawn, so I doubt it'd have much effect on it though

viral surge
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Not only do some missions feel like they have more/less intense swarms, but I swear some seem to have more/less frequent swarms, though maybe it's just my imagination. :P

zealous kayak
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don't think there's much actual data behind it

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nor a real way to actually test it

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if it were truly random, there wouldn't really be a way to know that without access to source code since testing via the same seed wouldn't matter

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and that's if it even exists at all

viral surge
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Wait, you're telling me mods are being made without stuff like this being exposed to the community? o_o

zealous kayak
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not directly exposed, some of it may be obtained from game files though

glacial topaz
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"(...)there wouldn't really be a way to know that (...)"
if you knew how many "truly random" things I have tested and uncovered...
I just didn't get to ME wave size for losing some interest, and wanting to check out other things

finite dawn
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What's the wiki page that shows how much all the promotions cost?

glacial topaz
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did you try searching for "promotion" ?
it is in that page, wonder what you looked instead

finite dawn
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I just missed it and never expanded.

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Thanks

glacial topaz
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awesome, no problem
if you think it could be more clear, that can be fixed

proper kernel
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is there a wiki page with a list of common acronyms?

short cloud
proper kernel
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Ig its time to learn how to add to a wiki lol

weary sonnet
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If you are stuck at some point when creating/adding stuff, here is a good place to ask.
To make a new page, the easiest way is to search for it, spelling it exactly the way you want it to be and if it doesn’t exist, it will ask you if you want to create the page.

acoustic scarab
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Should probably update that lol

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Also, since our to-do lists there are spotty at best, I'd put a note at the top that coordination happens here

glacial topaz
wicked cave
low pagoda
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so i had an idea for a minor addition to the weapon pages, the crosshairs. since all weapons have custom ones and sometimes multiple since some overclocks change them i think it would be neat to be able to easily see what they all look like

glacial topaz
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I know there is a in depth explanation on accuracy
But as suggestion, maybe have an accuracy / projectile section talking about crosshair, speed and a bit on accuracy in a simple manner ?

fresh breach
low pagoda
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a few voice line sounds in the wiki pretaining to bosco seem to be misplaced

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like the attacvkone where it shouts "BOSCO"

glacial topaz
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I went ahead and decided to post the explanation for enemy mission variation I was working on, so others can help review it and stuff https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Swarm
thinking about checking out how big swarms are on different missions types, depending on what I find, I will see what to do next

tranquil hazel
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the wiki doesn't say how much more armor breaking the armor break module overclock does

image.png
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the "Unique Overclocks" section doesn't say either

glacial topaz
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did you try hovering over it ?
seems to be working fine here

tranquil hazel
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oh I see

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thanks

glacial topaz
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awesome, no problem

hexed needle
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anyone know how many rare boss enemies can be in 1 mission? i just encountered a prospector + korlok today, i would've assumed the korlok to be replaced by the prospector but that wasn't the case

sterile crescent
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As I understand it, different "bosses" fall into different classes, and only one from each can spawn

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Korlok is not in the "seasonal" class, so it can spawn alongside them just peachy

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I think it conflicts with a Gold Bulk Det. though, so I don't think they can spawn together. Don't take my word on that though

hexed needle
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i've also seen someone get a prospector + corruptor, so i guess it's also a different pool for after the season?

sterile crescent
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Yeah, I think (most) of season 1+2 and 3+4 exist in different pools

bold plover
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Afaik none of them are mutually exclusive.

hexed needle
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none of the bosses you mean?

sterile crescent
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Well, Harold and Large Meteors are, and I think Prospy and the Rival Satelite hack (I forgot its name) event are mutually exclusive too

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The bosses are technically "event" spawns, so whether they spawn in a map is similar to whether a machine event or the like spawns too; the game treats them similarly

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But Banagement knows way more on this; mine is based on anecdotal experience and listening in on him and co. talk about it way back

lime forge
timber drum
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Posible Wiki entry: The description for the Dawn Of The Dread DLC cosmetics implies that glyphid body parts are contraband.

image.png
acoustic scarab
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I just noticed we disabled anonymous edits. Has this been a thing since the migration?

analog rock
tiny birch
timber drum
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...and yet management, who can obviously see the dawrves via cameras or something (As implied by voice lines), lets them wear it as ARMOR?

glacial topaz
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Issue 1: Thoughts on this Edit ? page: https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Reinforced_Power_Drills
whole thing being about drill grips not showing normally
User added low quality images and made a bad layout for them (reminds me of that 144p unknown horror image before I made a better version)
then I adjusted the visual description on the page, and removed the images, since I think it should be better worked on, instead of doing something that others will have to fix
then later User added images back, and that is it

image.png
proper kernel
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The images def should be moved or removed, their current position is really awkward.

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I don't think the information about the grip is mentioned in game (correct me if I'm wrong) so referencing it seem unnecessary at best, and a bit confusing at worst.

zealous kayak
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yeah they're really only visible if you have a high FOV/weapon FOV and in the loadout terminal

upper rapids
zealous kayak
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wrong wiki but

glacial topaz
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Issue 2: Thoughts on this Edit? page: https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Tactical_Leadburster
whole thing being about total damage not being interesting or realistic
User added total damage stats as a trivia, for all 576 bullets hitting flesh
then I reverted it, due to it being not realistic / possible and not being interesting
then later user reverted and removed the trivia and added it as stats table, though the idea was the same

not only it is not realistic, it didn't consider the damaging status effect, and pretty sure there are way better things to be calculated that might be more useful to know

image.png
zealous kayak
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I mean I think it would be more worthwhile to do damage per round by number of rounds / rounds per burst

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and maybe list the total damage to the side but it's not realistic

austere fossil
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I think the only situation it's even possible to have every bullet hit something is when throwing it underneath a Bulk Detonator. It might be worthwhile to have that somewhere with the 1,152 damage mentioned but the rest is essentially useless.

Maybe with modded difficulties it could be possible but I'd think that to be out of scope for the general wiki.

glacial topaz
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Distance between bullets, bullets needed to kill certain targets, and how far away targets can be before bullets are too far apart
info on overkilling (like, if 4 bullets are going to a target, but it dies in 3, will that fourth one ignore target ?)

a lot would need in game testing for different cases
same for the bulk one, since with modding you could even see how much damage you are actually getting , and even check if any bullets are hitting the walls

proper kernel
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Yeah total damage doesn’t make sense due to LB using statuses and a irregular damage falloff.

I think it should be removed since it is at best unhelpful and at worst misleading and incorrect

acoustic scarab
#

If it's in the infobox, it's implied the editor wants to add it to every weapon. If they can make a convincing case why total damage as a single number is a useful metric to compare weapon performance, I don't mind. However, I don't think it is such a metric

zealous kayak
#

total damage only makes some sense on weapons, but even then you're not getting the maximum damage possible so it's fun trivia to know at best

#

dps is a more useful metric than total damage

glacial topaz
#

DPS / calculations would be something you add on the main article, trivia would be stuff like "it is based on this real life gun" or mostly non stats related things, etc etc as seen on other pages
that said

#

I didn't check if the number is correct, but I think that saying "as of the latest season 3 patch, the Dwarves..." would be better

acoustic scarab
glacial topaz
#

fair, though I think we could improve on it

short cloud
#

Someone could alwaays try and count the voicelines on crowdin I guess

analog rock
glacial topaz
#

searching for "Character/Shouts" on it gives 130 pages,
last one has 32 entries, so (129 x 50) + 32 = 6482
"Character/Shouts/MissionControl" gives 15 pages,
last one has 38, so (14 x 50) + 38 = 738
possibly 6482- 738 = 5744 dwarf voice lines ? Wonder how to better filter or work on that

zealous kayak
proper kernel
#

Yeah, total damage only matters for ammo efficiency calculations. And even then there are a lot of factors that are usually unaccounted for. For example what if something deals AOE, do you count it for each possible target? what about range increases? what about conditional damage? or something with super high WP bonus? what about inflicted statuses? etc.

Total damage just doesn't mean anything in 90% of comparisons.

floral drift
#

new topic: Cubic CurveFloats.

last night i think i figured out a way to reliably decode them. would getting a Cubic Polynomial for the exact values to convert from X to Y be useful for the Wiki?

this would be used for things like Minigun's Heat Curve (Seconds to Heat Meter %, and calculating when Hot Bullets will activate), Minigun's Spread Curve (Bloom to Effective Bloom), Drak 25's Heat Curve (Heat to Heat Meter %, and calculating when TEF's steps activate), and probably more things as we find them.

the reason i ask is that it might fall under the "too technical to be helpful" category.

glacial topaz
#

this is the sort of thing you add a graph, the formula can be added as well as a bonus, but having a graph or table for quick reference is even better

proper kernel
proud needle
#

Do deep dive levels have their spawn pools pre seeded? Like will you always get the same 3 disruptors on a stage on every run?

floral drift
trail gust
#

I haven't looked into this topic much, but I'm pretty sure some stuff like eggs' location and enemy encounters can be different from dive to dive. For a particular PLS seed game seems to generate another internal seed which likely determines such stuff.

floral drift
#

in my reruns of Deep Dives, i think i've noticed the Enemy Pool change. the Egg locations are static, but which egg triggers a Swarm can be different.

glacial topaz
#

seeing how I recently added enemy pool explanation on wiki
now I wonder if DD page could get some explanation on what is fixed and what is variable, if it is not well explained already

trail gust
#

For instance, dread cocoons may get different locations as well, I recall seeing that for sure. And I remember in one of the EDDs there was an escort mission where drilldozer was driving through an egg and thus causing more problems on the way than usual but it wasn't the case for all players who were doing the same deep dive.

floral drift
#

hmmm, maybe i'm wrong. for my own re-runs, i was always host so maybe that's why the egg locations (not cocoon) were static. i wonder if it changes by host's region or some other "X factor"

glacial topaz
#

that seems either intentional, or bug

acoustic scarab
#

new topic: Cubic CurveFloats
We really should be using threads for these 😄

violet fiber
#

Right.

#

I was directed here to discuss the tactical leadburster edit.

#

My logic is simple:

short cloud
violet fiber
#

Regardless of how often the "perfect use case" comes along, having solid numbers is still useful. Especially since I believe that is one of the highest damage potentials in the game from one button press. My apologies if putting the total damage numbers in an infobox was not optimal, but I simply wanted to present the information in a concise and appropriate manner.

violet fiber
violet fiber
# violet fiber Regardless of how often the "perfect use case" comes along, having solid numbers...

It's also a matter of subjectivity. How much more useful is knowing the damage of a singular bullet when it vomits forth MANY of them, often hitting one target multiple times? My addition simply extrapolates that and does the math for other people to know. The information is exactly as useful as what was already there. In addition, I only find this to be especially notable due to the Leadburster's unique status as a hitscan grenade. Most grenades either have limited bursts or are AoE. The Leadburster is literally a disposable gun, and therefore is unique in that regard. The only thing you could, theoretically, compare it to is the Engineer's or Mine Head's turrets.

violet fiber
#

However

#

If someone would like to pair up with me somehow and test the variables (overkilling, how does the piercing damage type affect how the burster functions, etc) I would be elated to do so. Im mostly a numbers-and-math guy with this sort of thing. Testing it practically would be greatly helpful. If my information has to be removed, I ask we refine it instead.

glacial topaz
#
  • usually the way to go is to work on projects up until a certain point, instead of keeping their prototype or initial version edited, even more if it is not something that is agreed on, otherwise it seems like others have to take care of it
  • on "being interesting is highly subjective", if most agree on what can be added or not, for the current wiki format, philosophically discussing it doesn't seem too worthy
  • on how useful total damage is for something where most bullets are going to miss (for non-bulk throws), it is, as mentioned, less useful than information on "how many bullets it takes to kill targets" (which one can easily calculate with the eHP and the status + damage info), and many other factors that actually show how useful it can be. Raw total damage is misleading on that case
  • mostly waiting to see if others have anything to mention, as... convincing one person, you, about it isn't something I want
violet fiber
#

May I ask how knowing the damage per bullet is more useful? ...Are you counting the individual bullets in each burst? That seems impractical. By and large most Gunners I have met simply "toss and forget," not paying attention to either statistic.

#

It has occured to me that people dont always play on Hazard Levels where bugs are literally covering the walls and ceilings.

#

That...is a failure on my part. Apologies.

#

Still. I find that the total damage distribution per burst is useful, as it tells you the amount of bugs that are taken care of each time. Maybe I should revise it to that?

trail gust
#

I'm used to the idea that wiki provides necessary item properties, explains the mechanics and then any player can create sheets / graphs / guides, etc. based on that initial data and share it among themselves.

violet fiber
#

That is a fair statement, but the purpose of a wiki is, by definition, to do exactly that - disseminate information you have found yourself.
That being said, if there is a popular grenade chart or what-have-you that I could append the Leadburster's very unique properties to, I'd be happy to move the information there instead.

#

Im less concerned about my edit, to be clear; Im concerned about the information itself being available.

glacial topaz
#

I don't think the purpose is " disseminate information you have found yourself." at all

violet fiber
#

Sigh...that gets off topic I apologize for even mentioning it.

austere fossil
#

I don't think it is off topic if the current discussion is about whether something belongs on the wiki.

violet fiber
#

If I must look up the definition then fine. I guess it isn't "information you've found yourself."

image.png
#

Regardless, if its not on the wiki, I at least want it documented on a resource the community uses often. That's all I ask.

#

Also I apologize if I seem a bit rough. I'm just a bit anxious.

trail gust
#

I guess you could make a technical analysis on 3d damage spread, draw a scheme with damage modifiers and range circles so players can understand it better. Even then there are probably more important things that need more mechanical details.

violet fiber
#

I will say that my numbers are very raw.

#

They certainly need refining.

#

Yes, the more I think about it the more I need
A) Someone to help me test this (I can't run mods so afaik I cant use Sandbox)
B) A community made chart on each grenade.

#

The Wiki just isn't sufficient for indepth analysis like this, huh?

austere fossil
#

As is, they're a simple "multiply 4 numbers together, 3 times", which ignores everything else about how the grenade would actually perform

violet fiber
#

Yes I'm now painfully aware of how much of a problem this is.

trail gust
#

You can probably post some analysis on technical drg subreddit if that is what you want. But yeah the indepth part is needed and I don't even know how would you test such stuff without mods and modding tools.

austere fossil
#

A deeper analysis might be useful and worth putting on the wiki, or maybe you could interest @floral drift in helping add it to the DPS Calculator?

glacial topaz
#

thoughts on keeping the lead burster into its Previous version (no stats on all bullets hittin)
WHILE we work on making the information more fair and meaningful (??)

violet fiber
violet fiber
#

as such it's properties are utter alien to the behavior-affecting or AoE norm of the grenades.

#

It's subject to a lot more variables than the others...

#

Making a contribution to, say, a DPS Calculator or perhaps some sort of community chart or graph would be more worthwhile, I think.

#

Now that being said

#

Im totally open to whatever direction you guys wanna point in.

#

Unfortunately I've got some other stuff to do atm.

#

So feel free to shoot me a dm

proper kernel
#

Personally I don't think its a helpful statistic for the wiki unless explored thoroughly

Just having the number means nothing to the standard DRG player, and can mislead them.

violet fiber
#

Yeah the numbers were really raw and turns out this might be a bigger thing (for lack of better words) than I thought.

#

is there a channel for discussing this? I didnt see one.

proper kernel
#

I don't think so, what category do you think this discussion would fall under?

violet fiber
#

Well, wiki is the closest thing. Im not sure what "wildly variable-ridden damage calculations" would be other than "experimentation." But that channel is for the experimental branch,

proper kernel
#

Maybe ask a mod?

violet fiber
#

Will do, but, may I respectfully ask what purpose that'd serve?

#

Not used to big servers. They tend to make me anxious.

trail gust
violet fiber
#

That might be a good idea yeah.

trail gust
#

Dmd the link

violet fiber
#

Ah thanks lad/lass/whatever configuration of being

glacial topaz
#

got curious to know if each volley is a straight line, and if each burst skews the angle a bit
having the trajectory line be visible would be amazing, but you only end up seeing the bullets decals

glacial topaz
#

which reminds me I had a bunch of bugs to talk about, but was too lazy or forgetful to actually check if it was being reported
"mission control talking about vandalization, with you just loading the game and spawning in"
"hive guard not spawning sentinels because you popped 2 cocoons, so you are fighting multiple dreads at once"
I don't remember all

fresh breach
glacial topaz
#

already discussed here
new wiki

fresh breach
#

Someone should inform the devs maybe?

glacial topaz
#

game is not even out, and pretty sure the people on their discord will end up doing that anyway

glacial topaz
floral drift
#

is it documented that Huuli Hoarders can spawn with Phazyonite chunks in them? i think that's what i just experienced...

sterile crescent
#

Right now it just says "crafting minerals" without distinction

#

So no, I don't really think so. I don't know if thats worth clarifying though

#

I suspect it just spawns a bunch of chunks of every mineral in the spawning pool

bold plover
#

Afaik it only spawns biome related crafting materials, since Phazy is not biome specific it does not drop. Phazy is a bright pink sphere vs other minerals. Default mineral is gold if none are present.

floral drift
#

i'm familiar with what Phazy looks like. it just appeared as if it was falling out of the hoarder, but it might have been the minigun carving a chunk behind it?

bold plover
#

Very well could be, minigun produces a lot of "0.1" chunks afaik.

acoustic scarab
acoustic scarab
#

Has anyone ever tested Bosco's pipe-building speed vs. a player's pipe-building speed?

bold plover
#

I think they are the same but it's been a while since I looked at those assets.

acoustic scarab
#

Huh, apparently crassus bulks count as regular bulks for the purpose of the "kill 20 bulks" achievement

glacial topaz
#

could it have been because Bulk is the super class ?

fierce gull
#

Hello, i have a question about leadburster's properties as there is something i don't understand here

When i use a single LB on a haz5 deto (1P scaling, 4800 HP), i inflict a bit more than half of its HPs, so over 2400 HPs according to the wiki

My issue is that, when i consider LB's damage (2 damage at 1.8m or below) and according to the wiki, i get 2*12*16*3 = 1152, which is not even 1/4th of the det's HPs. (cf https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Tactical_Leadburster)

Therefore, what am i missing here ? Does the "pierce status" described in the LB page proc a lot of times to compensate for the lack of bullets damage ?

floral drift
#

Leadburster benefits from weakpoints, such as Bulk Dets x3

#

Additionally, unlike other things in the game, the bullets do more damage the further away from the center they fly. There are 3 tiers of damage.

fierce gull
#

How would they benefit from weakpoints if they're thrown below the det ?

glacial topaz
#

I think they are confused because there shouldn't be such a long distance between the burster and the bulk ?
same for it being able to hit weakspots depending on angle
though ofc, without an image or video showing how it was done, becomes harder to analyze

fierce gull
#

Do they have an inner penetration ?

#

Give me a sec to record

#

They seem to hit the weakpoint several times

#

But i don't know if that's sufficient to explain

#

Also kinda loud due to the mods, sorry dderp

glacial topaz
#

maybe due to it moving it wasn't hitting always under it, which can even be noted by the vast number of bullets on the walls

fierce gull
#

They seem to hit the weakpoint a lot of times too

#

but i don't get why

#

The same issue occurs when the det isn't moving by the way

#

instead of killing it with 2 i remove ~80% of its HPs instead, even though the maths say i shouldn't even deal 50%

glacial topaz
#

I would probably change the DOT damage values, and even the bullets damage (such as 0 for 1.8m, and X for further), testing out which range is being used
... maybe I would even make it add cold to see it being used, lots of possibilities

proper kernel
proper kernel
#

I saw that lol

remote dome
#

had no idea what was going on

#

then i saw coding

#

and i cant do that

#

so i dipped

zealous kayak
#

based on the videos they do seem to penetrate internally which makes sense

#

but if they're stuck in the model like that they can still collide with weakpoints

#

I assume because weakpoints have separate collision on bulk? or maybe all enemies, haven't tested it with anything like an oppressor before

#

it does line up with how the weakpoint can still get hit, but also bullets still hitting walls

#

probably from not colliding with the bulk, or at least if they do collide they deal damage but still go all the way through to the wall

glacial topaz
#

Lots of damage numbers on video, can we tie them to each range x difficulty multiplier x weakspots?

glacial topaz
#

I modified LS to do only 1 damage, and to not have a status effects,
threw under a walking bulk, and got this damage values: 175, 181, 204, 213, 216, 249, 301, 338

only issue being I can't be sure how many were hitting the weakspots (so if variation is weakspots hitting, or bullets missing)

glacial topaz
#

did some after previously popping the weakspots: 179, 180, 220, 233, 237

#

next, up modify the close and far range to be 0, and see how many hits it is taking within the 1.8 to 7 range
just not sure how to check for 7 and beyond...

weary sonnet
#

If you mean for the range, the spawn menu mod used to have a slider to increase/dicrease the creature’s size on each axis individually, not sure if they removed it or not.
Can’t check on my side since I am at work for now.

glacial topaz
#

was mostly to do with how LS damage is calculated, it is like "middle range" (1.8 to 7) is the base damage, with "close' being x0.1 and "far" being x2.5
but there seems to be possible to make it add, instead of multiply
now I have 3 more variations of LS

#

LS, no status, 1.8 to 7 only (1dmg): 71, 83, 98, 99, 100, 100, 104, 108

#

pfff, ok, no damage to bulk at all if I set it to 7+ only

#

... there is no status pushed if it is not doing damage, how am I gonna remove that variable now (maybe I will set it to 0,001 damage so it won't affect the full value )

#

for status only, ended up getting 100, 100, 100, 150

acoustic scarab
#

Good enough to put on the wiki as confirmation/reference

image.png
glacial topaz
#

trivia ?
best to make it clear it was intended, not confirmed
if that makes sense

shell frigate
#

? Is not moon
But is orbiting another planet

glacial topaz
#

oy, are getting astronomical technical
the post does specify gas giant
"A gas giant is a giant planet composed mainly of hydrogen and helium.[1] Gas giants are also called failed stars because they contain the same basic elements as a star" - wikipedia article

also can't it be both moon and planet ?

shell frigate
#

There is a distinct diffrence; Star -> Brown Dwarf -> Gas Giant, they don't overlap

eternal nimbus
#

I've noticed in the wiki, it claims you can deposit minerals into the Mini Mules on salvage missions, this doesn't seem to be the case in game though,

I heard from a friend this was scrapped but the wiki still claims you can do it

glacial topaz
#

reminder the correct wiki is wiki gg, pinned here, Not Fandom

eternal nimbus
glacial topaz
#

How far have we come to understanding egg hunt wave sizes ? Currently trying to mod different values to see which one is used for the waves, but not too sure if I am looking on the right place

proper kernel
#

Is there a mod that lets you set a bugs internal values like heat? I'm trying to make a calculator for min heat to kill a given bug, and want to check if my formula is correct, or if there is something Im missing.

glacial topaz
#

iirc talking about specific mods isn't desired, and at least I don't remember anything that could set heat values
wouldn't it be easier to just mod a weapon to deal specific ammounts of heat? maybe have upgrades affect it
though I didn't check what would be the best weapon...

proper kernel
glacial topaz
#

give example of values you got / want to check ?
guess you already checked the temperature page
I used to request a lot of mods, though turned out making mine for simple purposes was kinda easy, more like "follow these simple steps"

proper kernel
glacial topaz
#

other than enemies heating each other, wouldn't the random tick nature of on fire make it more confusing ?
I noticed the value for 64 on grunts considers only 0.5 ticks, while the 0.4 average would put it at... 7.2s
wonder what others would do, currently just trying to see if I can even change subata to do heat damage...

proper kernel
glacial topaz
#

you would have to mod the on fire status to only deal minimum-fixed damage to be able to tell if it works
otherwise even if you get a fixed 64 heat on a grunt, you won't be learning much from it

proper kernel
trail gust
#

I'm already working on smth like this, I'll dm you.

vapid star
#

will the DRG wiki
accomodate survivors and rogue core in the future

#

DRG is no doubt becoming a game series rather than just one game

#

the wiki would probably need a bunch of terraforming

shell frigate
#

We are discussing it internally but in absence of issues, there is a good chance of it, although more editors would be needed to fill such out such subsections of the wiki

vapid star
#

yeah multiple pages are gonna need clarification what is for what game
probably gonna also need to introduce a games category

#

thats great to hear though

shell frigate
#

It would be done via namespaces

vapid star
#

ahh yeah fair

#

im myself not very well familiarized with this kind of stuff

#

ive done some minor editing and table insertion on wikia (horrible by the way)

#

but this is a good example of what to follow id say

shell frigate
#

We have been looking into it ofc

vapid star
#

id assume certain existing pages would be expanded to share content from other games

#

like say uhh

#

rogue core in the equipment page

#

instead of having a separate equipment page dedicated to rogue core entirerly

shell frigate
#

It would be shared if equipment works the same

#

Otherwise (& most likey) would be; Rouge Core: Equipment

vapid star
#

yup

#

thats gonna be fun

#

i sure do love me organized convinient information

gleaming birch
#

are the fandom wiki snd the gg wiki interconnected in any way, or are they both their own separate thing?

weary sonnet
#

the wiki.gg wiki is the official one, the fandom one is no longer supported in any way.

shell frigate
#

Yeah wiki.gg is the successor as it were

gleaming birch
#

got it, thanks

shell frigate
#

Fandom will keep wikis up if they can earn even some cents off of it even if horribly outdated

gleaming birch
#

there's still a line on the front page of the fandom wiki that suggests coming to this channel for discussion, i can ask to get it removed since it's not that relevant anymore

glacial topaz
#

if the link is there, more people to come here and learn it is not supported

gleaming birch
#

makes sense

earnest bloom
#

Does the area damage of the hurricane rockets deal WeakSpot dmg? notably does it benefit from the +50% WS dmg mod at tier 4.

#

I've not found any mention of that on the hurricane page, and the damage page says some Area damage are/may be affected by WS "Area Damage, Damage over Time and Spray Damage (including Cryo Cannon and CRSPR Flamethrower) are not boosted by weakspots (mostly). ".

Also, I don't see any damage flags indicated on the hurricane's page. Does it have any?

trail gust
#

Does the area damage of the hurricane rockets deal WeakSpot dmg?
No. It doesn't get weakspot damage bonus.

earnest bloom
#

as expected, no mentions implied it doesn't. Ty

lime forge
#

Anyone knows the LURE explosion radius and electrocution stats?

tame plover
lime forge
tame plover
#

Yes

lime forge
#

As the wiki didn't have that

#

Thanks

trail gust
#

It's reused Stubby electrocution effect.

fresh breach
glacial topaz
#

uh, a main page is fine, but it is better not to be making articles for them
they are not out, and the way to handle "survivor/ roguecore" is being discussed internally

acoustic scarab
#

They're going to be useful for catching users who search the DRG wiki thinking it would have Survivor and RC as well, but these two pages should be short, brief overviews and link to their respective wikis, when those exist

fresh breach
acoustic scarab
#

That's a valid concern. But we definitely don't have enough hands on deck to maintain wikis for three games

#

DRG:S and RC will have to have their own teams eventually

fresh breach
#

That's why you make a post on the subreddit and Steam Discussion to bring people on board to make content.

proper kernel
#

Question:

https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Creature_Armor

In creature armor the calculations show ranges for each equation, but the ranges overlap, so is this a typo or does it actually overlap and have an additional separate algorithm to decide.

The Overlap in under the "Calculating The Armor Break Chance" Section. It shows that both equation 1 and 2 include a value of 2, this occurs with all 4 calculation.

Screenshot_2023-10-10_215352.png
#

I'm assuming it just goes to the next equation in case of an overlap (or that the overlap is a typo and the previous equation should use < not <=), like is shown in the example using a value of 4

image.png
glacial topaz
#

1 x 0.5 = 0.5 // 1 x 0.25 + 02.5 = 0.5
2 x 0.25 + 0.25 = 0.75 // 2 x 0.125 + 0.5 = 0.75

#

:S it doesn't matter which formula you use...

proper kernel
#

oh lol

#

ok 👍

glacial topaz
#

not even sure how "fandom" is supposed to even make DRG S/HC content, when I doubt there is even a big enough organized group that hates official one

  • being concerned about seo shouldn't allow for it to be done badly and without organization
shell frigate
#

Well if they are not given a space on wiki.gg then it's a natural consequence

weary sonnet
#

I agree that we should create pages / namespace for the other 2 games on wiki.gg early, even if it is just for SEO / to orient editor there early instead of fandom / avoid another wiki creation.

fresh breach
glacial topaz
#

that certainly, point was more about suddenly adding "reclaimers article or "core biome article"
before any namespace or stuff

fresh breach
# glacial topaz not even sure how "fandom" is supposed to even make DRG S/HC content, when I dou...

There's people that might hate Fandom but I, as a previous employee by Fandom who got paid to update wikis faster than forked wikis. That was our job was to beat forks.

Along with that they have 'Fandom Stars' who are dedicated and loyal to Fandom so they can easily gift them a game or two by just updating wikis to have people stay on the platform. So don't underestimate Fandom and the power they have.
https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Wiki_Specialists?so=search#AAA_Gaming

glacial topaz
#

hue, at least faster doesn't mean better

fresh breach
#

It's about SEO, not about better

glacial topaz
#

not counting how some stuff requires time to be properly added, testing do take time sometimes

#

would rather be with the better wiki, not the SEO perfect one

fresh breach
#

That's why you improve it, it's called a wiki for a reason. Everyone contributes to it

shell frigate
#

We have having the Namespaces for each (Board)Game setup so any wiki work for such titles (Except the main page about the title) should be done in such

#

Base DRG will be keeping the default namespace

#

So it will be /wiki/Rouge Core:Dwarves rather than /wiki/Dwarves/RougeCore

fresh breach
shell frigate
#

Yes

bold plover
#

Kind of old but I got confirmation that the keys are determined by converting the mission length value in DNA and are unrelated to the footprint icons on the mission widget.

pure wasp
#

yay math, my favorite subject

glacial topaz
bold plover
#

My confirmation was from the devs, lol.

glacial topaz
#

Smh, could have saved me some hours of testing , notnice

bold plover
#

Nah they just replied last night.

gusty summit
#

Hey y'all, so I'm trying to maximize my probability of getting machine events, and it seems to say mission scaling at 2, Morkite and Egg events are the best. So, since I'm new to this terminology, what exactly is mission scaling, I though it was Haz, but it looks different. Thanks in advanced: https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Machine_Events#Spawning

Screenshot_20231011-151429_Samsung_Internet.jpg
acoustic scarab
#

Mission scale is a hidden parameter that does not map 1-to-1 to any in-game term

#

It's a setting connected to all three of both mission type and length and complexity

gusty summit
#

Does Hazard have any factor into it?

acoustic scarab
#

It shouldn't (and doesn't, to the best of my knowledge), since it would then give an advantage depending on which hazard the game is played on. This generally goes against the philosophy of DRG's progression

gusty summit
#

I see, fair enough. Yeah, just trying to get most bang for my buck since I finished attachments and wanted to get these cores as smoothly as possible, haha. Only thing I really want is an environment/variable I can change to farm Magnite and Bismor.

acoustic scarab
#

You can read which combination of type & length has the highest chance, but you have to account for your personal skill with those missions. If you can beat a L2 Escort faster than a 400-Morkite mission, that extra 1% isn't going to make a difference

gusty summit
#

Definitely.

acoustic scarab
#

So the full and accurate answer would be "measure how long you take with each of these combos, then calculate the highest possible number of MEs per unit of time"

#

Which most won't bother with, I admit

#

Personally I think that for practical purposes, everything on the screenshot you posted can be considered the same chance

gusty summit
#

I'm of the mindset off a birds eye view Scout would be best with the Morkite one. But since I'm trying to kill multiple birds with one stone of getting OCs along with character promotion and certain resources that are lacking, I'm taking it all into account.

acoustic scarab
#

Since the speed factor is going to affect the results much more strongly than +/- 2%

gusty summit
#

Yeah.

acoustic scarab
#

Worth adding if true

short cloud
acoustic scarab
#

Yeah

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

to be fair that increased red sugar spawning been known around here for a long time
if it is not there yet it might be for lacking stats, since while I did uncovered some of the spawn rates of other minerals, I never tested red sugar itself

austere fossil
#

I was under the impression it didn't spawn more and that wording was just referencing the "increased effectiveness" that red sugar has since your hp is worth more with the damage reduction.

glacial topaz
#

hmmm, I can see 3 parts for shield disruption (unsure of what is used or not), a x0.7 Dmg multiplier, a x0 shield multipluer, and a x2 red sugar multiplier
I couldn't find out where the spawn quantity is stored
but I could try changing that "x2" to like "x20" to see if anything happens

bold plover
glacial topaz
#

what does "literal multiplier for red sugar" implies

bold plover
#

It is structured in a way to spawn more veins.

floral drift
#

anecdotally, from my own experience and what i've heard from others, there are noticeably more numerous Red Sugar crystals spawned in Shield Disruption missions. not certain i would call it 2x, but "statistically significant" at least.

bold plover
#

Yeah they may have fixed it for all I know.

#

I have a good way of testing it out now though as I can see the total amount of any vein like resource in the map.

glacial topaz
#

I put x40 and I didn't find the 4 eggs cave with lots of them

bold plover
#

So it does work?

glacial topaz
#

not really, I wanted to say I did Not find any difference

bold plover
#

Oh okay, I didn't quite understand what you said.

glacial topaz
#

are we looking at the wrong thing ? so whatever it changes is not what we think it is
unless devs say what was the idea, so people can try figuring out if it is working

bold plover
#

I think so, yeah, it should be the amount of healing you get per crystal with the type of mutator it is using.

#

Haven't been able to look at the files until now.

wicked cave
#

Scaling the healing per crystal would be a reasonable shortcut to achieve the same goal as spawning more of it, since you’d need to eat less of it to fully heal, meaning more would be left behind after eating it

#

Would still be nice to find out what knobs to turn to change the behavior though

timber drum
#

Is Mission Control/Quotes still under construction? I noticed that Escort Duty and Industrial Sabatage isn't in this.

image.png
timber drum
#

Also, on that note, it should be mentioned that some voice lines, like this one, do not appear if the "Use Profanity Filter" toggle is on.

image.png
proper kernel
#

#drg-gallery message
People get confused from the wording under the critical weakness description, so it should probably be changed to be more clear. I was going to but I thought I should ask here first.

I was thinking to change it from:
Firing at an enemy's weak spot will deal five times as much damage, compared to the usual double or triple damage.
To:
**Firing at an enemy's weak spot will deal five times as much damage, on top of the usual double or triple damage. **
Or:
Firing at an enemy's weak spot will deal five times as much damage.

Would this change read better? Or is there another better way to word it?

acoustic scarab
#

I think "on top of" is the clearest wording

#

We could go with "multiplicative with" as well

#

But I feel fewer people would understand that

timber drum
#

Found the fine print that tells what you are paying for when you promote, it's actually in the terminal when you have a class elidable for promotion. Shal we ad it to the wiki?

image.png
#

Now that I think about it, "damaged properties of DRG" may imply that we are paying for the losses of doreta XD

#

The bill only gets higher because when we are of a greater rank, we are on a higher level of scrutiny. or standard

short cloud
glacial topaz
fresh breach
shell frigate
#

Done

urban ferry
#

is there a reason why im only getting matrix cores for scout, gunner and driller but never engineer?

glacial topaz
#

you mean cosmetic ? weapon overclock ?
did you check if you got everything for engineer already ?
otherwise reason is you being unlucky

urban ferry
glacial topaz
#

you talking about machine events or mastery reward (?)

short cloud
urban ferry
#

just did normal missions

gleaming birch
#

the chances of you getting cores is pretty much randomized -- narrowing down the pool only happens when you infuse cores

#

it's unfortunate, really, but chances are it's just bad luck at the end of the day

#

<- still doesn't have any of the cores he wants

timber drum
#

Is anybody else's stat terminal inaccurate?

I looked in my stat terminal and it says that I have eliminated ~190K enemies. But looking in the miner's manual, I have over 200K Glyphid Grunt kills.
The distance traveled is weird, but that is a more known fact.

#

Grunts and Swarmers alone are over double the kill stat in the terminal.

short cloud
#

not just yours

timber drum
#

Nope, I was comparing stats with another player last night and we did have seperate stats, both in the board and in the Miner's Manual.

#

Still in the hundred thousands, and tens of thousands in diference as least

tame plover
timber drum
#

Yah, that doesn't sound too right XD

#

In that case, I don't think using the crosshair in the bestiary, which implies slain, should be there, I think it should be an eye for Encountered or seen.

glacial topaz
#

I don't think having a direct visual contact counts for it
meaning, if it gets killed while you are far away / not looking, will probably count
though if it is not how it works, do inform

timber drum
#

I would test it, but I won't be at my computer in the next 24 hours

strange harness
#

Does anyone have insight into how the algorithm works for selecting primary missions on deep dives?

For example, is it all split up based on a percentage:

4 egg: 8.2% chance
6 egg: 8.2% chance
200 morkite: 8.2% chance
Escort Duty: 5.7% chance
And so on…

glacial topaz
#

Never heard anything pointing to different weights
Ofc, as wiki states, some objectives cant be together

#

There should be a big enough history for you to know if any weight is used
Dont forget the days mission types released

strange harness
#

So there are currently 13 different primary mission possibilities. From my understanding, industrial sabotage and escort duty were tweaked to occur less-frequently.

Would this mean the rest of the primary missions have the same probability of occurring on Stage 1?

glacial topaz
#

Talking about primary and secondary, not different stages

stiff sinew
#

Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere: do we have any info on how the game generates new missions on each map rotation? Like how it decides mission types in each biome, and mission length, and if there are any anomalies/warnings.
It's mostly random, but is it weighted any particular way?
We know that in each map rotation there is exactly 1 mission with 2 warnings and at least 1 mission of each type without any warnings, but what else do we know?

glacial topaz
#

we know this one, with zones having obligatory specific mission types,
on how the rarity is used for missions, it is not known yet
also that some missions types, warnings and anomalies can't happen together

stiff sinew
#

Ah, that's quite useful thanks!
Does MutatorWarningCount = 6 mean that there will be exactly 6 mutators in each map rotation (excluding the extra season ones)?

glacial topaz
#

it is just values I dug up, so better to actually test-check in game, see if it makes sense with what is seen in game

steep blaze
#

Hi guys. One question. Somebody has fixed the interwiki link connecting EN pages to ES pages (was not working before when going from EN to ES for some reason, so kudos for whoever fixed it). However, the interwiki has a problem: you have added an additional slash (/) at the end of the template, so the link does not connect to the page of name XXX, but goes to the subpage in the page XXX/. Can whoever created it or any admin on the EN site fix it, so that the redirects work correctly? Thanks in advance.

shell frigate
#

Done

steep blaze
#

Fantastic, thank you.

steep blaze
#

Have another question. I am randomly adding a few Notes sections in weapon pages of the ES wiki to specify that certain Mods/Overclocks were changed their name in a certain update. Kind of like "Mod XXX was previously named YYY. This name was changed in the Update ZZZ". Would it be something I could add in a Notes/Curiosities section for your weapons as well as I add them on the ES one, or you do not want to clutter your pages with useless info?

glacial topaz
#

the number of stats, mechanics and text changes must have been enormous during all those several updates
and I don't think there is a source with it in detail from the start
That said, if it were to be added, it likely fits in a subpage

steep blaze
#

Makes sense, thanks for responding.

acoustic scarab
#

Asking because I can provide evidence that they definitely can

weary sonnet
#

iirc it is supposed to be disabled in solo, I don’t recall if it works or not though (according to what you said, looks like it doesn’t)

short cloud
#

they definitely can happen in solo

proper kernel
#

Is there a difference when only 1 players is present vs when you select solo? If so that may be the reason

glacial topaz
acoustic scarab
#

Then we should make that distinction clearer on the page. I'll add it to my ever-growing backlog

timber drum
#

I have gotten two dreadnoughts in a solo point extraction a long time ago. Had to give up a Crassus crater

#

So yes, I can confirm that Dreads can spawn in single player

glacial topaz
timber drum
#

Anyone know any lore on Deepcore other than that they made Scout's GK2, Engineer's PGL, and the Drilldozer Landing Vehicle?

glacial topaz
#

DRG isn't really the game you going to find lore, considering leaving it up to player's interpretation is a common goal
Rogue Core might focus more on the story part of things though

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

what was the difference again ?
I remember some mentions of that

timber drum
#

Rouge core is a rougelite game or somthing along thoes lines

glacial topaz
#

I meant story wise
it actually having something, I could even find the livestream moment that was mentioned, though I have to find where I wrote my notes about it first

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

could have confused with the idea of giving it a darker tone
though I don't think the store page mentions what the storytelling style is

short cloud
#

I thought you mean the premises
the storytelling style is going to be the same as DRG

timber drum
glacial topaz
#

doesn't exist for it

timber drum
#

I have had dreads spawn on me

glacial topaz
timber drum
#

I am aware that the spawning sys in point extraction is diferent, being that you don't get a 15 second advance, but you do get one when a dread spawns

#

Going off a rail real quick, Does this look like the Deepcore weapon paint to you?

Heavy_cargo_drop.png
glacial topaz
glacial topaz
timber drum
#

I thought it looked like Deepcore, if not Roughneck.

timber drum
glacial topaz
#

the right place to add is under the Point Extraction section, since I already explained pressure waves and regular swarms there
but since I don't know the exact values on how dread variation works, didn't worry about adding

timber drum
#

Values on dread variation?

refering to spawn rate?

glacial topaz
#

what makes it spawn or not, I know it is related to hazard, time and odds

timber drum
#

Odds, the Dreadnought page says that it is a 1/65 chance to spawn in place of a swarm, however it deosn not mean that it can't happen twice in one mission, as evidenced by a video on youtube. we could subdivide this into three considering the three varients.

Since the event in and of itself is soo rare, it's hard to say weather or not hazard or even player count has effect, unless someone took the effort of playing hazard one ME for the next few months XD, then again ther's the IT effect.

glacial topaz
#

:S Pain

#

I already said the Unique Swarm has No relation to it
not sure why you talking about it

timber drum
#

Going off of the Dreadnought page

image.png
glacial topaz
#

that is just mentioning where it Can appear not How it can appear, if you think it needs rewording

timber drum
#

"In place of a swarm"

#

Honestly, I may be off, but I feel that I am not self aware to know XD. I am flawed

trail gust
timber drum
#

"Motherload" being the old name for Point Extraction for context

#

right?

glacial topaz
trail gust
glacial topaz
trail gust
glacial topaz
#

the scaler is 1 for haz4
so yes, it should be 3 and lower

timber drum
#

IDK about haz 5, I sometimes play it. and I have been playing since late 2020, when DRG came to Game Pass. I do specificly recall having to give up a Crassus crator over a dreadnought and too many stacked swarms on a PE

glacial topaz
#

confirmed by knowing how it works
such as, having a value doesn't always tell how it works
example, sandstorm starting has a value of "3 to 50" , but you have to square that number to get how many seconds before it starts

timber drum
#

Probably not tiks

trail gust
#

having that graph already tells you how it works, you can pretty much trust it if you know it gets executed

timber drum
#

What is the technical name for the dreadnought spawn event?

trail gust
#

There's no event, it's just a branch of a sequence.

glacial topaz
#

then I take a look and add later on
but I do have a question, the dread has a time range where it can spawn
but does it wait for the next swarm to spawn it ? (since they have fixed timers)

timber drum
trail gust
glacial topaz
#

awesome so, kinda like Swarm ? check Scaler , check odds, Check mission time, if yes, spawn dread, if not, spawn normal swarm

trail gust
#

No, actually it doesn't wait for swarm to roll it, think of it as a separate roll.

#

The first delay it meets in one of the branches it's gonna jump to the next branch, that's how sequences work.

#

So it's gonna push multiple latent actions at the same time time, with swarm and dread being delayed in parallel.

timber drum
#

I am trying to make it out somewhat, but looking around at the flowchart with a laptop touchpad is awkward

#

So it isn't 6 sides of a die with 6th being dread, it's an extra die with an or gate?

trail gust
#

yeah it looks like one of the branches that is gated with rng chance and the scaler

timber drum
#

So in the tech tree, it's not a swarm in point extraction, what about a mining expedition since it has the normal swarm spawn system

trail gust
#

It also blocks both normal and scripted waves until dreadnought dies.

#

Scripted waves are swarms, i.e. EWCs.

timber drum
#

So a swarm and a dreadnought is mutualy exclusive if the latter came first?

trail gust
#

PointExtraction's EWC is set as a "AlwaysRunningWave" and game doesn't roll other EWCs in that game mode.

trail gust
timber drum
#

So that's why it's a seperate die?

trail gust
#

what exactly and where

timber drum
#

Paraphrase: The dreadnought is a seperate die since the presence of the spawned can block further swarms from occuring?

trail gust
#

yeah if game selects dread as a swarm it needs to die first for the waves (both normal and swarms) to continue

#

like wave timers get completely stopped while EWC is active and running and that's what happens on normal missions

glacial topaz
#

What type though ? Talking PE version ?

trail gust
#

no no normal

#

normally EWC gets executed through delays and then at some point gets complete

#

but Dreadnought EWC hooks death delegate of a dreadnought and only then it assigns complete boolean

#

one that boolean is true wave timers continue running for next swarms and normal waves

timber drum
#

So on paper, you could get a swarm the second after the death of a dread?

trail gust
#

timers get paused until the dread dies

#

so for instance dread dies and then 167s get elapsed before next swarm happens

#

it's just that swarm timer gets reset to the new time immediately after triggering a scripted wave

#

but noth normal wave timer and swarm timer are paused until that scripted wave (swarm) is complete

timber drum
#

What happens if the dread spawns at say 6:54, but 6:55 just by some reason happens to be a swarm timemark?

trail gust
#

swarms have intervals to roll

#

it is defined by a difficulty parameter

timber drum
#

ok

trail gust
#

so 6:55 it can't be, there has to be one of the defined intervals and it is greater for sure than 1s

timber drum
#

So what is the overall laymans of this?

trail gust
#

game runs swarm timer, swarm gets selected via different weights, timer gets reset to the new interval defined by difficulty and paused, swarm gets complete at some point, timer gets resumed and after some time it repeats

glacial topaz
#

first draft, this works ? adjustments ?
it is under Point extraction after pressure waves, and Swarm

image.png
trail gust
#

no it won't spawn as a swarm, it gets simply spawned and that's all

#

I just finally tested it

#

So, I set haz3 customdiff profile and I checked that PE scaler is 0.9:

0_PE_Scaler.JPG
#

While I was loading into mission, on the black screen EWC started to execute and I put a breakpoint on the last branch that ends up with a dreadnought spawn.

#

I got lucky and I rolled the rng value less than 3 (aka 30% chance)

1.JPG
#

Then it read the Point Extraction Scaler as 0.9

2.JPG
#

0.9 <= 0.9 returned true

3.JPG
#

AND (RNG chance 30%, PE Scaler <= 0.9) returned true

4.JPG
#

Then it rolled the delay that turned out to be slightly more than 46 minutes

5.JPG
#

At 44:30 it ran the swarm from the second cycling branch of the EWC

#

But it goes independent as you might noticed

#

At 46:10 (I measured) my 2nd breakpoint on post-delay flow got activated and it checked that scripted waves are not blocked (i.e. no machine events running iirc)

6.JPG
#

And then I pressed continue and got the dread spawn

7.JPG
#

It's also important to note that it only spawns Classic Dreadnought this way and never the other variants.

#

It cycles normal wave branch, it cycles swarm branch but it executes the last (dreadnought) branch only once at loading screen and picks the delay for the latent action to spawn the dread.

glacial topaz
trail gust
#

It's just an instruction that gets called

#

"Swarm" is just a sequence of spawns simply speaking

#

In that sense pressure waves and swarms are no different

#

What's different is spawn sequences themselves, delays and the presence of that announcement instruction

#

It's three different branches:

  • Pressure waves (cycling)
  • Swarms (cycling with announcements)
  • Dreadnought (delayed once and then announcement)
#

That is for the 2nd branch (swarm)

#

And that is a separate instruction for the dreadnought branch

image.png
glacial topaz
#

changed

image.png
trail gust
#

Is it the swarm page? It's just that I just edited it, your phrasing is better, but I also included 8s delay after the announcement before the actual spawn

glacial topaz
#

Ah rip
I wasnt posting before confirming it was correct

trail gust
#

Can also mention 10m distance from player spawn (I assume host)

#

Also it's not checked at the start of a mission but rather before the mission on loading screen.

#

And the delay starts to get elapsed even before mission starts, so like loading time included (I measured the exact rolled 2770s with my watch from the moment I pressed continue button in debugger when the game was paused on loading black screen).

glacial topaz
#

Wait, long loading time affects it or ?

trail gust
#

yeah it's a latent action that gets scheduled way before game loads you in

timber drum
trail gust
#

Game executes delay node before you see the actual loading screen and once it's executed it's already elapsing

trail gust
glacial topaz
#

Getting dread at 0s be like

timber drum
#

"Regular dread swarm" as in "We picked up some tremors on the scanner, could be somthing big. Better prepare yourself" !!??

#

Oh nvm, I'am back on track now

#

Because I knew there were 5 lines for the Dreadnought alert, three of them being vague, with the other two specifically saying that it's a Dread. Does that mean that PE only spawns dreadnoughts (Refering to the classic) and ME can spawn any?

trail gust
#

yeah

#

The descriptor is only classic dread there.

#

for PE

timber drum
#

Ok, because I was about to say that I have fought twins on a OSR

#

That difference should be clarified

trail gust
#

I also have a mod that lets you play PE with regular normal waves/swarms ME-style

timber drum
#

Well frankly that takes out the point of: Don't stay too long or there will be more than you can deal with before the next swarm spawn

#

PE is the only mission from my experience where that is the case

#

That's what makes Point extracting teadius

#

apreciated thought

glacial topaz
#

should we have the dread mentioned on the PE page too ?
funny how we know about that mechanic, but still missing a lot when it comes to stuff like enemy quantity or rarity parameters

#

just added "If certain conditions are met, a regular Dreadnought will spawn."

timber drum
#

Here's what I think

A: In the Point Extraction page, it should say "There is a small chance that a Glyphid Dreadnought (Not to be confused with Glyphid Dreadnought Hivegaurd or Glyphid Dreadnought Twins) can spawn in Point Extraction. Unlike Mining Expedition or On-site Refining, only the "Classic" can spawn in this scenario." I think saying "If certain conditions are met," is unecicary unless the reader is wanting to read on the actual function of this secondary dice roll.

B: On that note, for the mentioned players that would understand code or want a more advanced understanding of the systems, there should be a "Advanced intelligence" section to go in depth into technical game mechanics. I would understand if we are not going to do that since it would take more data to do.

Honestly I also think that saying "If certain conditions are met" implies that it is a circumstance in the player's partial control. Like how in Terraria, going into hard mode is a condition required for the "Mechanical Bosses" to spawn at random. As we know, that's not true

vocal tusk
#

speaking of info you get off the wiki

#

i did have a driller related question: What's the maximum inline a dwarf can climb up without getting stuck on terrain? Even at a 45 degree angle, there's a lot of hopping up driller tunnels for me. I checked, but I couldn't find an answer online.

timber drum
#

From my experience, even at like 15 or 30 degrees, you can get stuck on a piece of terrain that the drills didn't get.

#

it just happens sometimes

#

Kinda a boring answer but I experience it too

vocal tusk
#

Unfortunate. I hope that's something the devs address- Any dwarf can mine tunnels, but Driller makes nice smooth ones for making shortcuts in awful terrain... Mostly. I'd consider making it a suggestion for a bugfix but I doubt that would help.

trail gust
#

There is a small chance that a Glyphid Dreadnought

  • 30% is not small, it would be straight up disinformation.
  • If you know the chance, why would you troll people with "some chance" phrasing? It's similar to what devs put in descriptions and what makes the exact reason people go to wiki to learn about that chance.

(Not to be confused with Glyphid Dreadnought Hivegaurd or Glyphid Dreadnought Twins)
Just insert a link to corresponding page for those who can't differ those by name.

a more advanced understanding of the systems
I understand why you would not mention PointExtractionScaler in that particular case, but there's nothing advanced in at least saying it's only possible on Hazard 3 and under.

I'm also not a fan of "certain conditions met", it's better to just say what conditions without wasting reader's attention on such excessive words.

timber drum
#

WHO SAID 30!! That's not even a 1/4, we might as well be doing Elem all day if that were true!!

trail gust
#

Have you read what I posted before? It is 30.

#

But it seems less, since people don't stay on PE for 50 mins.

timber drum
#

oh in the context of PE... dammit

#

Even though I have been playing for years, I still make myself for an idiot at times

timber drum
#

Nvm that wouldnt 🤦‍♂️

glacial topaz
#
  • we already have the details (since I edited after Sentro), scaler, hazard, chance, times, everything, which is in the swarms page
    the part of keeping it simple is on PE page which has a link to the section with more details, avoiding repetition
timber drum
#

Alright, I will recuse myself from this topic

#

I feel like I am not understanding a scrap

proper kernel
#

Can multiple of the same disruptive enemy be picked?

Like in H5 can the pool of three be Stingtail, Stingtail, Goo Bomber?

Or does an enemy being picked prevent it from being picked again, so the above, the second Stingtail would be a different bug,
eg: Stingtail, Stingtail Shellback, Goo Bomber

#

Also for the veteran system, Are the chances in the chance column the chance for a bug to be a normal bug, or a veteran. I assumed the former, which would mean the chance to be a veteran is the inverse of what's listed.

Eg; Haz 1 is listed as 100%, which would mean that there is a 0% chance to be a veteran.

https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Swarm#Veterans

acoustic scarab
#

There was a table with the number of slots for each pool for each hazard

#

But I can't even remember if it was from the wiki or elsewhere

proper kernel
glacial topaz
#

Having trouble opening page to check
But the fact you never saw a mission Without grunts should tell you how many slots enemies fill
And not sure why the chance of stronger enemies would decrease with hazard level

proper kernel
glacial topaz
#

Pretty sure the third enemy was a bulk and those are quite rare to spawn, being yet another system to decide
It is better to work with what you can see, not what you cant,

proper kernel
glacial topaz
#

Page says "game will pick different enemies to fill each of the groups "
A phrase talking it might not always spawn all could be good

bold plover
proper kernel
bold plover
#

And yes, hazard affects veteran system as well as assignment progress and solo status can affect some other spawns.

proper kernel
bold plover
#

The chance is for that other group to be selected when rolling from the range.

proper kernel
#

so 0% chance for it to be 100% a veteran?

bold plover
#

Hazard 1 has 0% range so it never spawns a veteran and the options are limited to 1 type of enemy but it never spawns. Likely to avoid a null pointer crash.

proper kernel
#

I don't fully understand but that explains enough to kinda get it, thanks for the info 👍

bold plover
#

Range is the chance to select options 1-3, 1-3 have weighting which have their own likelihood to be chosen if the range said to try. This weighting is to lessen veteran spam.

short cloud
#

Just asking here, because I think one of you will know : Does the heat conversion mods benefit from weakpoint bonus damage mods ?

For example : if I use the hurricane with the weakpoint mod and napalm mod while shooting at a praetorian, I would assume the heat gained is calculated with the +50% bonus weakpoint damage.
I don't think this info is found anywhere on the wiki.

floral drift
# short cloud Just asking here, because I think one of you will know : Does the heat conversio...

the last time i tested it, Damage Conversion to Heat was not affected by Weakpoints, and therefore not by Weakpoint mods either.

however, "Direct Damage" that hits a Frozen enemy had/has a bug where the Frozen multiplier gets applied to the Damage Conversion to Heat. i think i heard a report that this bug was patched? it's been a while. but it could be used to force Temperature Shock in a single shot.

some examples of that behavior were evident with EPC + T5.A Burning Nightmare. i built this loadout to document the bug at the time: https://karl.gg/preview/17123#/

short cloud
trail gust
#

You can use Temperature Number and Sandbox Utilities to check the damage.
Heat/Cold is indifferent to material you hit. You can deal it even through Oppressor's armor.

trail gust
#

I just tested it. Frozen Damage Bonus, indeed, gets applied to Heat damage.
Stock Hurricane with T5A: 10.72 Kinetic + 13.4 Explosive + 11.88 Heat.
And when that impacts a frozen Praetorian: 32.16 Kinetic + 13.4 Explosive + 22.44 Heat.

#

Assigned to GK2 DamageClass = DMG_Heat, Damage = 10. The result is the same: 30 Heat gets dealt vs. frozen Praet.

#

Another interesting fact is that Temperature Shock gets dealt upon reaching -110.0 degrees temperature with Heat damage for Praetorian. But he has -100 degrees unfreeze temperature.

image.png
glacial topaz
#

is that some bug exclusive of praetorians (?)

trail gust
#

I doubt it, enemies have the same EnemyTemperatureComponent.

#

I'll try another enemy

#

Setting 9.99 damage and going from 40 to 10.03 doesn't T-Shock it, but 40→10 does it.

#

Acid Spitter: requires 13.34 Heat to T-Shock it from -50 to -10 degrees. 13.33 Heat results in no T-Shock:

image.png
#

So T-Shock threshold is 10 degrees above unfreeze temperature.

glacial topaz
#

wouldn't that be "below" unfreeze

  • sounds like the Shock section of temperature page is going to need some updates, though unsure if that behavior was always like that
    (perhaps enemy infobox could get the shock values)
trail gust
#

Yeah, so -110..-100 degrees is T-Shock interval for Praetorian. It unfreezes at -100.0.

#

I just tested that -101 → -98 is the highest I can go with 1 Heat GK2 to trigger T-Shock.

glacial topaz
#

it goes both aways I imagine, dose and thaw

trail gust
#

I'll check douse

#

Yeah it does T-Shock at 40..50 degrees, douse is at 40 degrees.

image.png
floral drift
#

following up on SplitSentro's new information -- got confirmation from Dagadegatto himself that each creature has an unknown-to-us-until-now value called TemperatureShockActivationWindow, which defaults to 10 for all creatures. it gets applied to both versions of TempShock.

theoretically, that is a value that can be changed by GSG per creature if they want to, but it sounds like it's expected to be 10 across the board.

bitter basin
#

hey could i have some help with a possible bug I am encountering with my mission xp?

floral drift
worldly pecan
#

How much XP does a single kill give you? I was playing with my buddy and we were running CD with that has an increased amount of bulks and he told me that we'd get so much XP bc of them.
I'm not really sure but I think any kill be it a swarmer or a dread gives you same amount of XP on mission end right?

glacial topaz
#

last I remember there is no XP difference between enemies

acoustic scarab
#

Each enemy is 1 XP regardless of type, and not affected by hazard level

#

Meaning delivering a killing blow on a dreadnought on Haz 5 is the same 1 XP as a stomping a swarmer on Haz 1

worldly pecan
#

Aha so I was right. Ty ty

weary sonnet
bitter basin
#

@floral drift the amount of xp i got for kills and minerals mined seems incorrect idk if they are

acoustic scarab
#

Hear hear

#

From the man, the legend, the bag himself

bitter basin
#

that would be 46 and 78 xp from umanite and magnite, 125 xp from minerals but there is 917 xp in minerals total so idk how that could be correct

glacial topaz
#

did you forget the other minerals you got like nitra and such

bitter basin
#

idk how i would have mined 792 xp worth of minerals or gold or any other mineral

glacial topaz
#

what mission was it

bitter basin
#

idk but i still dont know how that would happen

#

thats another example where i should get 92 xp for bismor and 118 xp for the jadiz but i have 647 xp for minerals which would mean 210 would be from bismor and jadiz while 437 from other stuff but idk what

viral badger
#

nitra and gold are minerals too

acoustic scarab
#

Do we know what the threshold for being knocked off a zipline is?
Is it reaching a certain total damage taken, a certain DPS, a certain number of hits?

bold plover
#

DPS afaik

#

You can get knocked off even with no damage actually taken and high damage shots knock you off in one go while low damage shots don't.

jolly adder
#

Anyone know the specifics for heat generation/limit for the collette wave cooker? Can't find anything on the wiki

trail gust
#

Temperature Amplifier?

#

It is on wiki, isn't it?

glacial topaz
#

the info for max heat before overheat, cooldown delay - rate, and heat per shot or second , isn't there
only info on the modifiers, but not base values

trail gust
#

For the stock microwave:

image.png
#

heat per shot or second
the property per ammo is not set, so ig it's time-based, it looks like 3s in-game, though I'm not sure where to look for the t2a effect

glacial topaz
#

is the max heat known ? might be easier to use a stopwatch in game then

trail gust
#

np, I can time it

glacial topaz
#

is that hour:minute:second:fraction + Heat

trail gust
#

It is Y on the graph

#

CurrentTemperature property

glacial topaz
#

Stock 6.4773800s to reach 100%
T2A 9.1623451s to reach 100%
T2C 5.9285854s to reach 100%
wait, why stock and t2c are different

trail gust
#

you should count not from 0

#

because 0 is when the watch starts

#

but when I press lmb it changes to another number

#

and that is the start moment

#

it writes in the log when the value gets changed

#

so some time passes between me starting the watch and starting to fire in game

#

2,8330417s
3,7165188s
2,8664987s

#

to reach 100%

#

the error seems to be ±0.0085s

glacial topaz
# trail gust

I am not sure how to convert that to a neat number of Heat/s
seems like something is missing to make it a neater number and not "5.675646 heat"

guess that means 100 is the actual max value, and not just the % ?

trail gust
#

it overheats once it reaches 100

#

if you're looking for the max value that is 3.0 from the graph, it's just that manual heat per ammo is not set, so I'm not sure how to read it by default

glacial topaz
#

wait... actually, the len altering mods change the heat used
Wide Lens = +1.1 Weapon Heat Per Second
Power Supply = +0.4 Weapon Heat Per Second

I guess using stopwatch with them would inform more ?
something like "X + 1.1 " vs "X", so we find X, which is the base heat per second

trail gust
#

I can time them too

#

what is base heat per second?

#

it's not linear

glacial topaz
# trail gust what is base heat per second?

that is what we are trying to discover lol
"how much heat% , or absolute heat value, the weapon accumulates over 1 second of firing"
the non linear part is messing it up because it is not visual ?

trail gust
trail gust
#

though it is less than 3s and heatrate is not visible

glacial topaz
#

right, so what the mods do, is alter how big the Time-axis is ?

jolly adder
#

Man, this is difficult to find it seems

#

I'm gonna try see if I can find out

#

I believe it's just 1 heat a second

#

Not fully done with calculations on time and etc but I'm using my mega power supply build atm

#

I could fire 37 shots from the cooker before overheat, but only 19 on the wide lens addon

wooden arch
#

sorry for interrupt you guys but the Deep Dives page don't contain the Deep Dive (and DDE) logo (icon?) for some reason bit weird someone add it please

jolly adder
jolly adder
#

So wide lens theoretically is doing somewhere around 5.26% of the max heat per shot

#

Wide lens is doing just under double heat usage for only 25% more AOE? Yikes

glacial topaz
#

using the day to day build doesn't seem like the best idea,
as using the non-upgraded weapon, and then adding upgrades intentionally might be easier to test that
so you think that with faster rof, the heat gen is higher ?
meaning that time doesn't matter

jolly adder
#

Wait no I see what you mean

#

You make a good point, I'll test a build with lower ROF

#

You're right

#

Lower ROF, I only got 31 shots in

#

After lowering my ROF from 12 to 10 that is

#

So it seems your predictions were right, it's a time-based thing as opposed to heat per shot

#

Looking at it frame by frame, it seems it takes about 2.95 seconds for it to reach max heat

glacial topaz
#

at least knowing shots fired + rof you can quickly get how long it took for overheat

jolly adder
#

Gonna go on an assumption here based on my recording, I think it's 3 seconds rather than 2.95, just a slight delay between the first shot counting ammo and it actually firing

glacial topaz
#

what was the rof and shots fired used ?

jolly adder
#

Just watched back the clip of wide lens addon, 1.39 seconds til overheat

#

So an additional 1.1 heat per second equates to 1.56 seconds less use

#

Doing some math, I've got reason to think the cooker uses 1.9 heat per second by default

glacial topaz
#

37 / 12 = 3.083s
31 / 10 = 3.1s
well, if I remove 1 shot it goes
36/12 = 3s
30/10 = 3s

jolly adder
#

We'll consider that 1 shot removal as a product of delay between actually starting to fire and the 1st shot counting an ammo loss

#

So, 3 seconds

#

Guess maybe we should consider the 1.56 of wide lens addon being 1.5

#

So I guess the cooker uses 1.1 heat per second, and an additional 1.1 with wide lens addon?

#

Math completely checks out, and doesn't make numbers that are a decimal mess

#

3.3 max heat, 1.1 per second, 2.2 for wide lens, sounds good

glacial topaz
#

hmm
how many shots you get with no mods and using overdrive and wide lens ?
guess that is with the 7 base rof

jolly adder
#

Completely vanilla build aside from the overdrive and wide lens?

glacial topaz
#

yes, unless you wanna make the rof be like 10, so it is even easier to calculate

#

but it can't affect the heat generation At ALL

#

safe from the widelens and over drive mods, ofc

jolly adder
#

Yeah, mega power supply does just that, provided you don't use the base ROF increase upgrade that is

#

I'll test it out now

#

No override: 31 shots
ROF override: 28 shots
Wide override: 16 shots

#

Kinda weird how now suddenly the ROF override is getting less shots

#

Ahh wait, ROF override on the wiki says it adds +0.4 weapon heat per second

glacial topaz
jolly adder
#

Of course it's got 25% more ROF

glacial topaz
#

wait... so the rof value is what ?

jolly adder
#

12.5

#

When using ROF override on Mega power supply

#

Pairing the 25% ROF increase but the additional 0.4 heat per second, puts the shots to overheat at 28 according to calculations, so that checks out

#

Seems to me like we cracked it

#

Heat per second is 1.1

#

Max heat is 3.3

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Wide lens adds another 1.1

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ROF override adds 0.4

#

And complete conrete proof heat is based on per second and not shots fired

#

Yup, we're bloody geniuses

#

Thanks for the help

glacial topaz
#

Wild
awesome, thanks for doing all that testing
and Sentro too

jolly adder
#

Honestly, this does further make me think wide lens override is kinda bad though

#

Double the heat usage for 25% more area?

#

Hard pass from me

glacial topaz
#

more area, or more radius ? those are different, as
increasing the radius by 25%, makes the area grow by 56%

jolly adder
#

Oh?

glacial topaz
glacial topaz
jolly adder
#

I guess it's just a matter of whether or not liquid cooling system is a 0.9x multiplier, or a static amount is deducted from heat per second

glacial topaz
#

I am hoping those were taken from the game's files

jolly adder
glacial topaz
#

the wiki I mean
which is how we know something is +1.6 RoF, and NOT 20% for example

jolly adder
#

Yeah

glacial topaz
#

well... rip, says "-0,1" for that liquid cooling
and that heat sing says "-0,2"
which would put it at 0.8 heat per second ??
considering I got the right stats, you know how those names don't match the ones in game lol

floral drift
#

on 2022/05/12 i calculated CWC Max Heat as 3 and Heat/sec as 1

#

but it never perfectly lined up with the measurements i took

#

there were some edge cases that were off by like 10% from that prediction

#

i seem to recall that during U36XP, one of the other modelers (Evan, LazyMaybe, SplitSentro?) documented something about the CWC having 2 buffers between user input and heat change. there was a video clip of someone tap-firing CWC and then like 5 frames after each tap the heat display would jump upwards, instead of smoothly.

jolly adder
floral drift
# trail gust

also, i'd like to draw your attention to this Heat Curve. x is bounded by [0, 3] and y is bounded by [0,1]. in general, Heat Curves (like Minigun and Drak25) have their X bounds tied 1:1 to the underlying heat values

#

for instance, Minigun is bounded x -> [0, 9.5], y -> [0, 100]. it also takes 9.5 sec to overheat at 1 heat/sec

glacial topaz
#

is anyone already planning to add / alter the heat values on collete page ?

floral drift
#

i'm not 100% confident of the values yet. therefore i do not intend to.

#

[1, 3] never satisfied me
[1.1, 3.3] i haven't tested yet

glacial topaz
#

fine by me to wait a bit more
what kinds of testing can be done ?

jolly adder
glacial topaz
#

wait, did we compare 1.1/3.3 to sentro's stopwatch ?

jolly adder
#

I don't believe so

glacial topaz
#

though I guess that predicting the number of shots for several cases is still a really good manner to check
I could probably do a table with variations, heat, rof, and expected consumption

#

proposal
shots = RoF x (3.3 / heat) ,

floral drift
#

in my mind, using the assumption that heat is based on the duration of firing (not on ammo consumed), i would calculate shots fired as:

Firing Period = Max Heat / Heat Generation
Shots Fired = Math.floor(Firing Period * Rate of Fire)

Shots Fired = Math.floor(Max Heat * Rate of Fire / Heat Generation)

the logic being that the weapon would overheat in the interval between the last shot fired and before the next one could go off.

so, the same formula you're using, but surround it with a Floor function.

glacial topaz
#

Stock= floor(7 * (3.3 / 1.1)) = 21 shots
T4A = floor(7 * (3.3 / 2.2)) = 10 shots
T4B = floor(9.5 * (3.3 / 1.5)) = 20 shots

T2A = floor(7 * (3.3 / 0.9)) = 25 shots
T2A + T4A = floor(7 * (3.3 / 2)) = 11 shots
T2A + T4B = floor(9.5 * (3.3 / 1.3)) = 24 shots

T2B = floor(9 * (3.3 / 1.1)) = 27 shots
T2B + T4A = floor(9 * (3.3 / 2.2)) = 13 shots
T2B + T4B = floor(11.5 * (3.3 / 1.5)) = 25 shots

blistering + T4A = floor(7 * (3.3 /2.75)) = 8 shots

floral drift
#

how do those line up to the measured ammo expenditure in-game?

glacial topaz
#

👀 mr Foster is the one counting them, though not sure if still around for that

floral drift
#

this is my data collected in May 2022, so it doesn't account for any balance changes made since then:

image.png
glacial topaz
#

trying to find anything in patchnotes

#

t2a and t2b being so equal is curious

jolly adder
#

Begs the question for whether or not t2a is worth it, give it doesn't output more DPS like t2b

glacial topaz
#

oh yea, foster you up to checking if the ammo used still holds up ? if not I guess I can tomorrow or late tonight since meatshield ones is from may 2022
which if right, would mean 1.1 / 3.3 might be wrong, or some detail missing

jolly adder
jolly adder
#

Sorry, never got around to doing it, might be able to tomorrow

dreamy hill
#

Just a thought, but maybe the cooling rate needs to be subtracted from heat buildup?

#

Might explain the math discrepancy

glacial topaz
#

You mean the weapon is alway cooling even with firing ?
Pretty sure that would make the behavior different than all other heat weapons

trail gust
#

You can turn my data into a graph in excel and then analyze it. It's automatic ue4ss watch value feature that is likely the most accurate out there.

glacial topaz
#

Wait, the data points are the shots ? Lol

#

Didnt occur that each entry e
Was a 1 ammo used

glacial topaz
proper kernel
#

So, even without knowing the specific values, it's roughly 3 seconds till overheat, with the percentage of heat generation modifying that?

glacial topaz
#

Uhm, is not % actually
Current proposal that makes values line up is 3.3 max heat, 1.1 heat/second
Which would give 3s exactly

trail gust
glacial topaz
#

Counted from first non zero, to highest value before going down

#

Only thing not tested is blistering, or Overclocks
Though... dont see a reason that will prove all wrong

trail gust
#

is MeatShield's t4 bug confirmed?

proper kernel
#

Does lower mean longer till overheat?