[Official] Duskruin February 2024 Mecha-Wheelbarrow Listing

[quartz kraken]

On March 1st in the evening, we will bring out the clockwork wheelbarrow filled with the high-end offerings. This is the tentative listing. Anything listed below is subject to change before March 1st.

• Create spell knowledge tattoo or self mana Item: 1,000,000 bloodscrip
• No 506 this run.
• #1139093815924379778 message
• Create spell knowledge tattoo for just 506 or 515: 1,500,000 bloodscrip
• Add Death flares: 2,000,000 bloodscrip
• This is to add flares to a weapon, bow, or runestaff. No shields, armor, or UCS equipment.
• Add Mind Wrack flares: 500,000 bloodscrip
• This is to add flares to a weapon, bow, or runestaff. No shields, armor, or UCS equipment.
• +5 enchant up to 12x: 500,000 bloodscrip
• Does not include DB, OB, or any other fanciness.
• Perfectly forged weapon: 1,500,000 bloodscrip
• Coraesine relic: 1,000,000 bloodscrip
• ODM Gear Harness (Jump Jet): 800,000 bloodscrip
• Add Splitter: 1,000,000 bloodscrip
• Weapon cannot have enhancives.
• Can have RotFlares, NotRotFlares, or FlareAffinity for 100k surcharge (must already be on the weapon)
• Can remove enhancives and subscripting at no extra cost.
• Cannot move properties, they will be lost if you wish to remove them.
• Create Offense Bonus/Defensive Bonus item: 2,500,000 bloodscrip
• Item will be either +3/+2 or +2/+3.
• Item will be crafted from zelnorn.
• Item must be leg greaves, arm greaves, neck guard, or shoulder guard (can alter the description somewhat).
• Create Martial Knowledge: 250,000 bloodscrip
• Rank 1, list is here: #1210863889089040434 message
• Add +1 rank to MK: 150,000 blooscrip
• Max of 5 ranks.
• Deepened a belt worn or shoulder worn container to 250lbs: 250,000 bloodscrip
• Greater Transmute: 1,000,000 bloodscrip

[hollow badger]

Enhancive being transferred cannot come from fodder, they must be enhancives that are currently in use.
What does that mean... I had a ton of crap saved in my locker just for this...

[gilded island]

And how are you going to verify that lol

[crimson elm]

typed same question in DR chat, so +1 😛

[gaunt python]

can you list mk restrictions

[quartz kraken]

When an enhancive degrades, it's all measured.

It's all tracked on the item. It's the only way I'm offering it again.

[wary nebula]

It's kinda wild to me that I'm pretty sure MKs are far more expensive than any auction price I've ever seen them go for while SKs are way less expensive than most auction prices they went for before the wheelbarrow. I'm saying that as someone who requested MKs for the HESS, ideally at rank 1 if needed to keep the price down, but has no interest at 1m bloodscrip.

That said, I like the game making profit, so...

Are martial stances allowed? That's an area where I could see someone spending 1m.

[quartz kraken]

Otherwise, I'll take it off the list.

[gilded island]

So as long as the enhancive has been used at any point before, it's eligible?

[quartz kraken]

Correct.

[crimson elm]

ah ok i see

[hollow badger]

How can we even check that? Like I have no idea which ones of mine were used.

[quartz kraken]

If you aren't using it, it's likely not eligible. That service was a giant pain, so it's the only way I can bring it back.

Otherwise, it won't return, and I'm fine just removing it from the list forever.

[gilded island]

I don't see my +250lbs for 200k!

[crimson elm]

can ob stuff be enchanted normally? or with HESS certs?

[quartz kraken]

I'll check on the MK stuff, it was requested.

[quartz kraken]

HESS can do them for the DB items.

[hollow badger]

if we buy the combine and some of the items we want to use aren't eligible, can we get full refund?

[wary reef]

Obviously rank 5 Martial Focus for that sweet, sweet TD.

[gilded island]

I'll give you 250k for a copy of the MK Tackle 5 that went at auction.

[quartz kraken]

Yeah.

[crimson elm]

you were just supposed to spec KS 😛

[wary nebula]

Scanning this combat maneuver list...

Martial stances, Block/Evade/Parry Specialization (especially if having one via MK meant you could have more than one active mechanically), and Grapple/Kick Specialization (likewise) stand out as ones that people might plausibly spend 1m on.

[shell mirage]

Give me my 1213

[gilded island]

denied, denied, denied denied denied. Next? 😂

[quartz kraken]

Just putting this out there, I have always worked with everyone who have bought things to try to make it happen and I've never denied someone a refund when it's not possible.

[hollow badger]

Just wanna say the original combine was way cooler.

[gilded island]

I appreciate that mind wrack came down a bit.

[fringe warren]

Just my humble opinion, but 1.5million for +3 AvD and 6% DF seems like a lot. As someone who does forging, and doesn't see perfects sell for much at all anymore compared to the effort that goes into them, I have to say, I can see this being around a 100k- 250k BS service. Very cool list though.

[wary reef]

Lot of older weapons from pre-forging days or pre-made stuff that couldn't get forged bonuses. It appeals to someone!

[wary nebula]

Can you also stick perfect forging on weapon bases that normally can't be forged? (I somehow have the vague idea that you could, but can't remember for sure. But that would be another angle of appeal if so.)

[crimson elm]

a few did sell last year i think? maybe i dreamed that

[gilded island]

Item 27:
Lahke says, "I will make your weapon perfectly forged.  Anyone asks though, I didn't sell it."

Villorn registers a new bid of 1210000 bloodscrip.
Price match to Gillien for 1,300,000 bloodscrip. 

[fringe warren]

Yeesh

[gilded island]

Bloodscrip was worth way more at that time also.

[wary nebula]

Yeah, the perfect forging makes sense given it's so close to what people were paying. It's also why I was surprised at the SK pricing even back in August, since we'd commonly see stuff like SK 515 going for 2m to 3m bloodscrip at Manias and it was only 1m in the wheelbarrow, heh.

[fringe warren]

I mean, that's somewhere in the realm of $3,000. (or $1k per AvD)

[sturdy dune]

Is this the place to read when one has insomnia?

[gilded island]

SK515 was 1.5m

But there were a lot of MK for 25% of the price tag here.

[quartz kraken]

I don't know if this wheelbarrow will exist beyond this run. I will say, if anything is going to get yeeted it is the enchanvice bit, we'll see how the rest goes.

[quartz kraken]

Welcome, friend, to the place where dreams never happen.

[wary nebula]

Maybe I was thinking of SK 506 that went for more.

But yeah, I'm well aware of the MK market over here with my MK Ki Focus gloves and MK Surge of Strength and being the runner-up on MK Hamstring. 😄

[gilded island]

SK506 was available for the 1m price tag. The 515 was auctioned. (2 sold)

[sturdy dune]

Will you be selling a harness to attach to our golems so they can carry us around like toddlers in the wheelbarrel?

[wary nebula]

506 was 1m in the wheelbarrow back in August, yeah, but didn't it go for more at older Manias before then?

[gilded island]

Whalebarrow in my impression, was a stopgap for the falling Auction prices. Which is why we haven't seen another auction.

Yes, 506 went for way more previously.

Everything was coming down in price. Then we got the whalebarrow.

[hollow badger]

is there a list of what SKs are an option? There was one before on wiki but was deleted for some reason

[wary reef]

It was linked in the post.

#1139093815924379778 message

[wary nebula]

That tracks, yeah. It's not like a person needs to buy SK 506/515/other top end spell more than once (unless they want it for alts or something, which most whales don't seem to), and I do remember prices falling because of that. In fact, I was partly counting on that as a strategy: biding my time for years until the price dropped low enough I could sneak something in. 😂

[sturdy dune]

You know, I never did get the oppurtunity to show up to mania with 100+ rats in tow.....

[opaque scaffold]

yeah you can think of the whalebarrow as a reserve price haha

[hollow badger]

I can say my SK515 cost me over $20k at the time, when the last 515 was offered as a tattoo it was metioned "this spell would change when 515 changes". Previously there was some talk of grandfathering old SK items. Unclear if this distinction exists.

[fringe warren]

It appeals to me for sure, just at about 10% of that price point.

But I suppose I don't really have too many old super weapons to make perfect, maybe a nice katana or two.

[wary nebula]

It's fair enough if the whalebarrow is a reserve price.

In that case, what I'm basically wanting is for the HESS at August Duskruin to offer cheaper MKs that exclude all the top end stuff like specializations or martial stances and let us go wild on the Bearhugs or Coup de Graces of the world.

[gilded island]

Yes. I was patiently waiting for 215 to become affordable.

I purchased all these spells as X/days.

But then we get spell sever to make those purchases worthless. Just to reintroduce them as SK offerings in unlimited quantity at 100x the price.

Not a great feeling.

[sturdy dune]

shield throw for the masses!

[crimson elm]

oh if a spell is x/day it doesnt count as you casting it but if its sk it does?

[wary nebula]

Right. SK is short for Self-Knowledge, so the game acts as if you know the spell and therefore spell sever doesn't penalize you (as long as you keep the SK item worn).

[crimson elm]

that's right ok - and what was SM again?

[shell mirage]

MK shouldn't be an issue half of the time. IMO, Manuevers that are based on a weapon form should be available to any class able to double that weapon form. Same goes for shield throw. Anything less is restricting for the sake of restriction - and this is a game design philosophy that NEVER pans out better than the alternative

[quartz kraken]

Super Mario.

[crimson elm]

that guy is a beast

[wary nebula]

Self-Mana. You can get the spell in the item by activating it and using your own mana, but you don't technically know the spell (nor are you treated as knowing the spell), so it still wouldn't work in spell sever. Lore bonuses also wouldn't act as if you knew it natively.

[quartz kraken]

I figured Leafiara would save me on this one.

[crimson elm]

she gotchu chief

[shell mirage]

Where is Estild. Im not done with drunken rants for the night

[gilded island]

It would have been interesting if the SK stuff never went unlimited, and the whales had to truly fight to the death for each spell. I wonder which way would have drained more bloodscrip in the end.

I realize there was so much bloodscrip that something had to be used to try to drain it though.

[crimson elm]

does Mario know how to add double strike flares to temporal weapons? didn't he do that in Galaxy?

[shell mirage]

It's canon. Too late. He said it

[quartz kraken]

Death match surcharge.

[wary reef]

Arena boss at round 250 is the current leaderboard champ.

[shell mirage]

Say it once, Wyrom. "It's a-me! Mario!"

[sturdy dune]

nerf rogues

[wary nebula]

Only 250? Weak.
Looking at the rogue leaderboard, you see Xanlin currently holds the top position at round 274.

[quartz kraken]

Can I just make the "Wahooo" jumping noises? Can Charles Martinet voice me?

[gilded island]

Stealth OP

[shell mirage]

Done deal. He agrees to your requests in exchange for 474819 bloodscrip.

[vagrant orchid]

I was pointed over here to ask, can I get a solid explanation as to why UCS is so restricted?

[crimson elm]

to be clear - idk if youll get an answer - i just know we are all in here 😛

[sturdy dune]

because you can kill stuff in guarded stance with a flare proc

[gilded island]

Because it's more OP than stealth.

[wary nebula]

Block Specialization
Evade Specialization
Executioner's Stance
Flurry of Blows
Grapple Specialization
Kick Specialization
Parry Specialization
Punch Specialization
Rolling Krynch Stance
Whirling Dervish```
Here's the list of MKs I could conceive of people paying 1m bloodscrip for. If things *not* on this list go for that much, I'll be surprised, heh.

[hollow badger]

any MK for a pure? I looked at the full list, nothing stood out

[shell mirage]

They're still trying to get me to pay 1m BS for Hamstring. I'm a tough cookie though, and will hold out until they stop being silly about paladins not getting it.

[wary nebula]

Not for 1m, no. At like 250k-500k, though, Coup de Grace would be pretty great for a wizard.

Edit: Actually, I guess Shield Throw could be pretty cool on a cleric, sorcerer, or wizard since they're all good at mass disablers to set up with. Still not a 1m caliber thing, though.

[vagrant orchid]

5 ranks in cunning defense for a pure would probably be helpful.

[sturdy dune]

I think all dwarfs should naturally get berserk...AND shield throw

[hollow badger]

I already have cunning defense... everyone has it

[shell mirage]

The day I see a dwarf throw a wall shield.... I'm throwing Gutstorm.

[gilded island]

February last year:

Dett removes a dirty string dangling chunks of dried ham from in his satchel.
Dett says, "This smells a bit, but it can be worn to give MK rank 5 HAMstring."
Sintas registers a new bid of 610,000 bloodscrip.

[vagrant orchid]

I'd pay for shielded brawler for my monk. If shield maneuvers are part of the list

[sturdy dune]

Dwi....

[hollow badger]

and a free dwarf tat

[shell mirage]

Not throwing Dwi. She'd kick my backside

[calm prawn]

It's one of those skills that you feel you have to take, and you don't really see why, but you know it does the thing, you just don't know what that thing is, or does... you know?

[opaque scaffold]

it actually doesn't even do the thing

well for pures it does a little of the thing

but not that much of the thing

[lusty glade]

Coup de Grace would win hands down for me on style points. I’m left wondering about absorb spell hijinks. 😂

[wary nebula]

It does the thing until far post-cap, at which point it no longer does much of the thing.

[lusty glade]

Or dispel magic. 🤔

[calm prawn]

Then why is it a thing?

[opaque scaffold]

I feel that way about all the passive combat maneuvers

I think they are for people who don't really want to have combat maneuvers

this is off topic!

[sturdy dune]

I wonder if anyone runs around during invasions smashing Coup de Grace on them 5k hp critters we run into

[wary nebula]

Passive combat maneuvers are incremental gains and you only have so much action economy for manually activated combat maneuvers.

[opaque scaffold]

unless you are going to get MK cunning defense

possibly the worst idea I have ever proposed

[lusty glade]

I absolutely would do nothing but.

[gilded island]

There goes that Tikba again, telling people what to do!!111?111 (jk, don't kill me)

It's almost like you're an Envoy or something.

[sturdy dune]

in Alistir's defense, I think the is the only channel people are active on right now

[crimson elm]

the cadence of this sentence fits perfectly to the Foo Fighters "There Goes My Hero"

[wary nebula]

That... that isn't how Coup de Grace even works, trying to use it on 5k health invasion creatures.
Maneuver a target, resulting in their immediate death. The target must be incapacitated in some way, and have (Rank * 10)% or lower health (200 max). Alternatively, the target may have (Rank * 5)% or lower health (200 max) without being incapacitated.
Unless I've been reading "200 max" literally the opposite of how it's meant to be interpreted, anyway.

[vagrant orchid]

a rank 9 crit to the head doesnt matter how many hitpoints you have. Unless you are one of those immune to dying things.

[calm prawn]

5k health doesn't do you any good if you don't have a neck anymore... ask me how I know.

[sturdy dune]

I think we need a ruling here. is 200 the max at full health or its current health total limit

[opaque scaffold]

No moving enhancives around or persisting anything to other items.
okay we heard about some funny things but I would like to hear the story that made this rule necessary

who tried to use the enhancive builder to sort all their enhancives into folders

[gilded island]

@long dew

[wary nebula]

I saved a couple arena prize runestaves that I'll now be getting rid of (pawning) since I only reserved them in case of the enhancive combiner returning and the possibility of people buying them for it. 🤣

[crimson elm]

i bought enhancive combiner last year and i have zero regrets

[vagrant orchid]

I'm confused on how that works. Can you combine like 10 enhancive items into one thing?

[gilded island]

How about a new rule, every finished product from the enhancive combiner has to be posted to a forum post.

[calm prawn]

For edification? Or ridicule?

[crimson elm]

well it was a 6 entry limit last DR - assumed it was the same restrictions for this version

[calm prawn]

Fair

[opaque scaffold]

an enhancive item can have 6 enhancive properties, provide 6 enhancive properties on one or more enhancive items, those items are destroyed and the 6 enhancive properties are shoved together into one new enhancive

[crimson elm]

maybe that's a good question for Zombie Mario - is this enhancive combiner the same 6 enhancive limit from last time? or is this literally the option to combine every enhancive im wearing into a single enhancive?

[calm prawn]

I want to see the ultimate swim cap as much as the next guy

[vagrant orchid]

so you could take a single enhancive from 6 items and combine them onto 1 item?

[opaque scaffold]

yes

[gilded island]

You should bring no-limits poker to Duskruin. Bids in bloodscrip. House takes 10-20% cut for each hand.

Have high roller tables where you must have X ticket balance to sit and participate on that table.

If you can't sell them high priced things, take a cut of them stealing each others bloodscrip.

[fringe warren]

Do you ever actually sleep?

[sturdy dune]

do 5 minute power naps count?

[wary nebula]

Not gonna lie, I'm actually a little surprised the enhancive combiner even came back at all. It's sort of like fusion minus the whole process of adding fusion, extracting orbs, and de-fusioning.

[calm prawn]

So the same 5 people can lose money over and over?

[opaque scaffold]

I am surprised it came back given that last time wyrom said "I'm not bringing that back it sucked"

hahaha

[hollow badger]

I'm kinda bummed about the way it came back, had big plans for it.

[gilded island]

I'm sure he learned a lot from the first time. lol

[fluid cedar]

Will splitter be major or minor?

[vagrant orchid]

fusion was great when it first came out. I'd go in on it, except it decays over time, even when you are not using it. Doesnt make sense to bother with it now

[hollow badger]

Last time we had basically no warning before it came out, no time to prepare. So I took the time to excel out this time around and collect all the fodder for it.

[calm prawn]

I mean, if you think about if, having to copy all of that crap into another item has to be a headache.

[gilded island]

No, dealing with demands was the headache. It's easy to set X to Y.

It's more of a problem when BigWhale says, but I paid a million bloodscrip for this, I want to pull X off this item, but keep Y, but hey can you put Y on this other item so I don't lose it. What do you mean no. Did you see how much I spent. I want a refund. Or I bought 10 of these certificates, how far can I push the limits

[wary nebula]

Yeah, good clarification. Being like original fusion is more what I meant, not the nerfed modern version. 😄

[hollow badger]

A $2500 a pop headache, to be fair. Put a new GM on it, let them do the menial labor.

[calm prawn]

Thats what I mean, it'd be simple to just do it, but dealing with people's expectations is always the problem.

[cursive crow]

The new phone books are here!

[gilded island]

I would K.I.S.S.

Give me 6 items.
Which 6 properties do you want on a single item.
<do math>
Okay, the results are this, Yes or No.

You get the finished product and I eat everything else. (Which it sounds like this is what you do this time.)

[calm prawn]

Probably what it will amount to

[quartz kraken]

You know the answer to this!

[vagrant orchid]

man, I need like 50 ranks in Mental Lore divination, just for RP

[gilded island]

I can make that happen if you come to the real world.

[vagrant orchid]

I like my less crowded world, even if it means I have to work 10x as hard to find those types of numbers

[shell mirage]

You're all up too early and I'm too drunk for this

[vagrant orchid]

I have a ton of enhancive items lockered, I've been slowly going through them to sell them off. Will those be okay to use since they were all created well before this DR?

[calm prawn]

Bold of you to assume we've slept

[gilded island]

This is my evening. I've still got hours before it's actual bed time.

[ruby prairie]

He said you have to have worn them actively, as in lost charges while wearing them over time. Can't use lockered fodder.

[calm prawn]

Sounds like you'll need to pull em out put em on for a bit and hope for the best, I'd guess

[hollow badger]

I just don't get the why of it.

[ruby prairie]

I would guess it is to restrict the power of it.

[crimson elm]

it's still capped at the 6 enhancives limit tho yea?

[shell mirage]

If that decision was strictly to keep people from doing DR shenanigans to make an item for the service, they could simply say "No DR stamps on the item prior." This "Can't use a locker" thing seems like it might be a little over the top

[crimson elm]

uh oh, Tivvy's here too

[calm prawn]

Or cut down on the "here's my truckload of items I want smashed into a bracelet, a ring, and a cute torc!".

[quartz kraken]

We save the cute torcs.

The enhancive service was meant to help cut down on your current inventory. Not create new inventory. The service originally was approved in August as a way to consolidate your gear you already had.

But then I saw the error in my ways.

[hollow badger]

Can we just get extra finger slots for 200k a pop instead?

[crimson elm]

betrayed by his own hubris

[marsh plover]

Are you the six fingered man?

[calm prawn]

Hoist by his own petar methinks.

[hollow badger]

Don't get me wrong I love having 3 premium fingers but imagine having 10

[quartz kraken]

The cyborg run is next Duskruin.

[crimson elm]

You see Brute. He has like 60 fingers.

[quartz kraken]

Where we augment your characters with new body parts.

[lusty glade]

You see Brute. He has hands like an AI image generator drew them.

[hollow badger]

Gemstone 2077

[calm prawn]

Can my wizard get a Sandevistan implant?

[gilded island]

Would you prefer people to try to get around your limitations now or later

Example: Pass previously worn enhancives from person A to B = Eligible or Ineligible
Example2: Just redeem the combiner on person B if cannot pass from A to B.

Just triple the price and allow fodder, they're adding more value than the Zelnorn gear anyway.

[ruby prairie]

Do you have to meet the pre-reqs for an MK item to work? Or does it just work? Would adamantine bulwark work without ranks of prop up? (Not that I intend to buy adamantine bulwark for 1 million.)

[calm prawn]

I think we all know that he'd prefer people not burn clock cycles on circumventing the ground rules. But crowdsourcing can be it's own fun I guess.

[hollow badger]

do you know why some of us play gs

[gilded island]

Sometimes, creating extra rules in an attempt to save yourself just makes it worse for you.

They're trying to control behavior.

Just price it according to observed behavior.

[quartz kraken]

I see the date when initially used and created. There will be no refunds for anyone who tries to game it, you'll just be out 1mil.

Easy drain.

[gilded island]

So it just has to be created and used prior to Duskruin. That could qualify a lot of things.

[crimson elm]

still the 6 item rule in place - like last time yea?

like i cant have you mush all my stuff im wearing into one mega enhancive right?

[quartz kraken]

Yeah.

[quartz kraken]

That's sort of the goal with it, but to 6 items/enhancives.

[quartz kraken]

It's not meant to be extra strict. It's just a sanity check.

[hollow badger]

So I take it I shouldn't even bother with the gear I bought and stashed months ago.

[calm prawn]

I mean, he could squash your entire character into a ball, but I'm not sure you or your items would like the outcome.

[gilded island]

If you wore it at any point in time, it may show as being used.

New meta is to wear all enhancives at least once to future proof.

[hollow badger]

Someone may have worn it, I doubt I did

[quartz kraken]

The goal with it isn't to create new gear, it's to consolidate your current gear into less items. Maybe it's just best to scratch it permanently off the list.

[crimson elm]

itll be like Katamari Damacy

[gilded island]

Did anyone do it the intended way last time.

[quartz kraken]

About a third of the people.

[calm prawn]

With more screaming, and goo.

[hollow badger]

I'm sure it'll self regulate with the demand going down accordingly, but who knows.

[gilded island]

If I had money to throw around, I would do a +50 to Lore lol. Then just EG swap it depending on the flavor of the year.

[vagrant orchid]

I understand it now, thank you. Hopefully no one tried to use a guild badge on it, thinking they could just go get another one

[junior shale]

I could think about combat mobility, auto stand on a pure would be pretty nice sometimes on my pure.

[gilded island]

Until you get RT locked by repeat tackles.

[vagrant orchid]

auto stand is only good in the right areas. Places like Sanctum, you're better off staying down. What Alastir said

[junior shale]

My animate will kill them if I'm not dead

[wary nebula]

At a much lower price, I'd agree, but 1m ain't it.

Bearhug, Bull Rush, Burst of Swiftness, Combat Mobility, Coup de Grace, Hamstring, Shield Strike, Shield Strike Mastery, Shield Throw, Sweep, Tackle, True Strike, and Weapon Specialization make up my list of "MKs I'd value on at least some profession, but wouldn't 1m bloodscrip value on any profession."

[gilded island]

What's 50 DS to a pure lol

[junior shale]

I mean in spell sever that's the diff of me getting hit or not a lot of times from high-end things

[gilded island]

Nothing a little 10x DB can't fix!

[vagrant orchid]

you could go like slippery mind on a ranger

[viral moon]

sheesh do you guys ever sleep. I'm just waking up for the day. 🤣 I wish I had the power to stay up after 10 these days. hah

[wary nebula]

West coast, it's only 2:02 AM!

[junior shale]

I'm just getting up myself, my sleep been all out of whack

[calm prawn]

Who needs sleep anymore when we can torment Wyrom?

[viral moon]

the only way I'm seeing 2am is if I wake up at that time. hah

[vagrant orchid]

it's 4am where I'm at, I just poured some coffee, probably go to sleep around 9am

[calm prawn]

Hey. Wyrom, remember that thing you came up with a while back that you thought would be cool? And it turned into a nightmare? Yeah. Good times.

[gilded island]

This isn't his first rodeo

[calm prawn]

Oh, I know, it's not mine either.

[junior shale]

I'm somewhat sad about the enhansive thing as that's something I was gonna prolly try and do, but I also did not understand that it was not meant to use fodder, I really thought it was kinda like epic fusion service, but I totally understand it's removal with its original intent being explained.

[hollow badger]

tbh I thought a mil was kinda up there as it is for enhancives, but could justify it on maybe doing like lores

[vagrant orchid]

the real benifit becomes only having to use 1 potion each month or year to charge the entire item

especially if it's like an SK, and you're going to be charging it anyway, might as well throw those 6 enhancives onto it (I hate slowmow)

[calm prawn]

Embrace the edit

[north kelp]

So whalebarrow newb here…
For SK - Outside of 506, what’s typically the highest demand? 215?

[vagrant orchid]

215 would probably benefit the most

[junior shale]

215 and 1720 are probably two of the most beneficial

[north kelp]

Do many get 712?

[junior shale]

although 1720 would need to be SM attuned, not sk due to how it activates I believe (not possitive on that)

the attuned list is basically this:
https://gswiki.play.net/Scroll/list_of_eligible_spells
Minus 506 and 1750

[north kelp]

When you say attuned… we can get wheelbarrow stuff discounted with attunement?

[junior shale]

no, I mean that the SK/SM stuff is character bound when you buy it, not discounted, there's a subset list linked above of the non-attuned stuff available for SM only, which could be an item you could pass around

so things like 215, 1605, 712, 613, 1711, 1720 maybe some others

[vagrant orchid]

get 219 you need that TD!

[north kelp]

Ahh. Got it. Thank you.

On the surface (215) for + 25 AS, and (712) +20 DS / +25 TD seem like they’d add the biggest value, at least in my mind. But love to hear others thoughts in case there are spells i hadn’t thought of…

[junior shale]

big thing with SKs is you get full lore benefits so things that scale on lores rather than spell ranks are nice

[hot wing]

Anyone know what mind wrack flares do to gear difficulty? Can’t find on wiki

[north kelp]

Trying to figure out how deep down the rabbit hole i go here…. and how many bad decisions i make (or if i make them)

[junior shale]

I think in this case they should count like a "normal" flare so -100

[earnest sinew]

Does anyone ever sleep any more?

[tender valley]

Can MK stuff be feats? Like light armor proficiency feat?

[gilded island]

This is the last chance ever. You'll never get another chance. Probably.

[fluid cedar]

What slot does splitter take up?

[junior shale]

script

[fluid cedar]

Boo.

[long dew]

@quartz kraken can we get a reconsideration on 506 exclusion or pay double for it, it was the only thing i wasnt able to get done last run

[north kelp]

is there a link to splitters and how all they function?
Also - any weapon type restrictions on this, aside from the enhancives/script slot

[wary reef]

Essentially any TWC-capable weapon. You can split it to create an exact copy of it (which is why no enhancives allowed), to dual wield them.

[long dew]

you just have to look at everyone with their ehancives already on thier splitter, and mutter darn

[marsh pond]

Ooh. That would be funny. Along with MK Evade spec would make my rangers evade numbers pretty funny

[tender valley]

And take robes CVA to 0. I think rangers should get light armor proficiency anyway… but… I guess there would be a million bs pay to win solution.

[scarlet prism]

What about weapon bond MK?

[tender valley]

Smart one.

[white anchor]

Free the transmutes! Free the transmutes!

[hot wing]

I'm surprised the enhancive combiner service even made a return after the cluster that happened last time, and then tacking on the "you have to have used this thing before DR" requirement is probably going to tank the majority of would-be buyers, lol

[tender valley]

In fact, all the feats. Perfect self.

[junior shale]

pretty sure MK has to be stuff in the cman list, they'd probably need to code something else to allow feats as those are coded differently now

[tender valley]

There was that mk dispel magic (or was it absorb magic) staff that went out in the feeder right?

[vagrant orchid]

there was an MK that went out htat had all the kroderine soul feats yes

[junior shale]

depends how that specific item might of been coded

these conversations of course are why this isn't coming out for another week haha

[reef eagle]

I would love to see mind wrack offered for shields or the greater transmute come back.

I know its powerful, but so are most things here and I don't know that I have it in me to start my shield project over.

[fluid cedar]

Adding mind wrack will just change the flare and not convert item to low steel correct?

[vagrant orchid]

that wouljd be the only reason it's worth 500k

[reef eagle]

I assume so.

[junior shale]

yes, in the same way that the death flare add here doesn't change the material to xaz

[glossy grail]

Can you add death flares to materials that have flares? i.e. death flares to Somnis?

Also - for the MKs - would things like dragonscale skin be available? I vaguely remember a staff coming out with Absorb Magic.

Finally, would something like the monk bonus to 1202 be eligible for MK?

[junior shale]

for 2m bloodscrip, yes

[winter compass]

Dragonscale is a feat, right? I'd guess not

[white vault]

Huh

[tender valley]

Until we hear from Wyrom, I’m going to assume feats are a go.

[shell mirage]

I wouldn't trust Leff and his feat fetish.

[long dew]

can you use MK, so create a MK absorb/dispel magic?

[tender valley]

Perfect self dude. And light armor proficiency.

[hot wing]

There's a staff that grants MK of Absorb Magic and Dispel Magic, so there is precedent, just not sure it'll be allowed for this service. Would be pretty surprising if it was

[long dew]

yeah that staff is what made me wonder

MK wps for everyone!

[tender valley]

Isn’t that just… the WPS wagon?

[hot wing]

i cannot imagine a bigger L than spending millions of BS on MK Grit

[long dew]

MK msytic tattoo is

[glossy grail]

There was a staff that went out (I think in the auction?) that had MK absorb/dispel magic. Oh - just saw that Yndrael reiterated that.

I also remember the staff as being pretty buggy, not sure if it got fixed.

[white vault]

MK mug

The zelnorn is a nice offer. 3.5 is too rich for my blood. Thank you for not pricing it at 2m. I would then be overly tempted to buy one. And then be locked in at 500k per DR till it was done. 😛

[long dew]

the real question is here can that MK KS runestaff be a thw weapon now with a base change cert

[fluid cedar]

Next question will flare affinity work with mind wrack flares?

[glossy grail]

Hmm. Ive got the staff in my locker. I just don't have BAYC money to test the transition out.

[cerulean current]

You don't want to pay 8k usd for a +2/+3 bonus to start? C'mon man!

[reef eagle]

I will agree the zelnorn is both a nice offering and outside of my pain tolerance for pricing.

[white vault]

I'll add my two cents on enhansive combiner. I think its a great offering. I think it is priced appropriately for how it was used last DR. However, I also understand how much work it can be to create a new item vs just adding some enhansives. I get it. I think that could be a great limited offering in the future (greater enhansive combine) at the 1m price point. I think the way it was offered this time, is not worth the cost. I think that tops off at about 500k personally. I know its been scrapped. But I wanted to voice muh feelings.

[winter compass]

I like the idea for utility a lot. 1m might be worth it if I could combine most of my current enhancives into one with six lines. Like...I think I have 7 items with Blunt bonus, and if I could combine them into one line, and then do the same with others, well...
I'd definitely downsize to one or two enhancives.
But if I can't combine the bonuses into one, it's not as appealing. Still okay, but not game changing for something that opens up slots and makes me use fewer charging potions.

[white vault]

I'll just be thankful I was able to take advantage of it last run, because it accomplished what I needed to. Freed up lots of slots. Slots where zelnorn could go......

[winter compass]

last time, how many items could you break down into the one with six lines?

Also, I'd vote to allow it this time with those limitations that Wyrom mentioned.

[white vault]

I was a naughty one I guess. 🙂 I did 6. If you are doing less than the max you are burning money. Mine also wasn't terribly efficient, but I had to use what was available to me at the time. I'll post it one moment.

    It provides a boost of 13 to Discipline Base.
    It provides a boost of 13 to Discipline Base.
    It provides a boost of 14 to Dexterity Base.
    It provides a boost of 14 to Spell Aiming Bonus.
    It provides a boost of 16 to Logic Base.
    It provides a boost of 17 to Logic Base.```

[winter compass]

You broke down six items, or more than that, to get those?

[white vault]

Six items. And then I took this item to Ebon's gate and swapped out. So the logic was like intuition at first.

[winter compass]

I’d probably pay 100k to combine two enhancives. 1m if I could break down ten or so of them into one (with the six line max).

[cedar hornet]

This sounds crazy to me.. but then again, when I was looking at mania sales those consistantly were ~6m 😮 I know they're rare..but oof.

[cerulean current]

well, there were like 2-3, that value will drop anyway with open access to them for a price.

[cedar hornet]

I want to get a 601 SK item, but not 1m want. Need some cheaper SM/SK item/tattoo availability for the spells that don't warrant 1m! 😁

so for pricing.. mind wrack was 2m last time? so that dropped by 1.5mil.. but looks like the enchant increased by 400m since last time it was 600m for 2x? rest seem to be the same?

[marsh pond]

I think they dropped mind wrack partway through last whalebarrow

[cedar hornet]

that'd make sense. took another look at the list.. enhancive combining is getting scratched? would have been interesting seeing how many people met that requirement

[white vault]

I too would like to see levels of SK. Especially since these are all character attuned. 401 does not equal 215.

[hot wing]

Tiers of SK would really make a lot of sense. But I think if they did that, there's a chance your 215's etc would end up above the 1m mark. Tiers running 500k-1.5m or something.

[marsh pond]

I just want dumb SKs like 710 on the cheap 😆

[long dew]

Its surprising it took them 2 weeks of DR time to come up with what is basically a lesser version of last year's list... goob job, I guess, that must've been some effort.

[junior shale]

if I had to guess why there aren't cheaper ones, is they want things like SKs to still feel special and rare, I could see something like raffle every now and then though for some of the cheaper ones which could be really neat, rather than them being just a DR thing

[long dew]

I don't get why 506 is off the list this time, i think they overestimate the number of players willing to pay these prices, I mean how many people that didnt get it last time are gonna pick it up now, it can't be enough to cause a balance issue...

[gaunt python]

@wyrom second on please reconsider adding back 506 for this round. Haven't been playing for over a year and missed last couple dr. It's was a big reason for me to start playing gs again and saved up enough for this dr to try to get it. I'm very disappointed that my excitement got crushed like that.

[north kelp]

I'll buy a 506 if ya put it in the mix.... just sayin

[north kelp]

I think this makes a lot of sense

[hot wing]

Like if someone has it in their heart that they want/need SK 114, it simply should not cost 1m BS, lol

[long dew]

i dont think charging more for 506 or 515 for that matter is unreasonable, but pitchforks are coming from the people who paid more this run for the same thing people bought last run for less

[north kelp]

I feel like that's just the nature of being an early adopter on things though.... Shiny new toys typically cost more than 3 year old toys, even if they're newly purchased.
things change, people who paid more had the benefit of it for longer ((shrug))

[hollow badger]

Spending $2400 on a combiner, which provides a very minor overall impact anyway compared to something like 506 or death flares, was already out there pricing wise. It’s somewhat amusing that it was decided that people were getting too good of a deal. Crazy how things have changed since the days of “who would buy a nerverot for 50k bs”.

[long dew]

I don't disagree with that at all. i'd be fine with paying a bit more

@quartz kraken I third on please reconsider adding back 506 for this round. I missed it last dr. It's was a big reason for me to buy blood. I'm very disappointed that my excitement got crushed like that.

[shell mirage]

Not to take sides with this or anything, but they've been saying no more 506 for five years now. The fact that they didn't actually take it away until now is itself a boon.

[gaunt python]

I'm not complainer type, but this one was so last minute pull on the sk 506, got me really upset, since I set money aside, bought the books, ran the sewers and holding over 1m+ bs for it. When the notice to pull it should have been stated earlier along with the last run shop list atleast for such a big ticket item.

[hot wing]

Wasn't it stated last time that the SK offering would be changing in the future and not to count on every spell carrying over to next run?

[shell mirage]

they did say well before DR that the SK item would be subject to the restricted list (which includes 506).

It seems people just assumed that since 506 was okay before, it would be so again despite the advertisment

[hollow badger]

Fair, things are always subject to change, and we were told as much, but at the same time major let downs can be avoided by giving early notice, not having people farm for weeks and needlessly buy simucoins.

[long dew]

No, also wasn’t promised to be back either though

[shell mirage]

I'm not going to make any friends by saying this, but yes. Yes it was.

[stray ferry]

#1139093815924379778 message

Just to pick one example

[long dew]

That’s not what he said, nice interpretation though

[shell mirage]

I recommend trying to buy one from someone else. 506 isn't that huge of an SK spell for those above 40m or so XP anymore, what with PSM and all. I'm willing to bet there's one or two out there available to purchase.

[long dew]

they guy who ruined premium enhancives on splitter should really know better, SK 506 isn't gonna help without SM 506 too, unless your a paladin, you would need both, so the secondary market isn't an option, nice try. unless your committing the robes via 1202 route

[hollow badger]

Glaves just get to 40m xp already

[stray ferry]

If you don't think "not sustainable" equals "I'm going to change it instead of continuing to offer it as it is" I don't understand.

[long dew]

im working on it buddy

[hot wing]

how about getting 40m exp yourself lol

[long dew]

this is such a false argument to make when we all know these new SK's are subject to change if the spell changes, if what he said there was a really an issue they could change the way 506 works, not stop offering it, lets be honest at least

[shell mirage]

Use your imagination. There's plenty of ways to use an SK 506 item without being a paladin - but very little NEED to use an SK 506 item unless you're a paladin. And even if you ARE a paladin, SK 506 is hardly your best option. Force spamming "attack" every 1 second only gets you so far. PSM can have you down to 1 second without 506 and still allow you flexibility in attack. I've never owned an SK 506 item, and never needed to.

[stray ferry]

Ok. I mean, my argument is right in that it matches what actually happened, and points at a clear reason why. You can be mad about it, I guess?

[wise lake]

Everyone would buy perfect self is that we're an option

[long dew]

its not like the new sk are grandfathered in please save me the we cant balance around a spell we can change anytime CRAP, its disingenuous as best.

[stray ferry]

I'm not telling you that

Wyrom is telling you that.

[shell mirage]

While they reserve the right to update any SK item when a spell changes, historically they've simply carried over the old working of the spell grandfathered in. Just look at 1612,

[stray ferry]

All I'm doing is telling you that Wyrom is telling you that.

[long dew]

exactly, he never said anything about what would or would not be back, so lets not lie and say he did

[stray ferry]

Glaves, you're being rude. Please stop. I'm not lying to you.

[shell mirage]

Actually he did. Before gates even opened, the wheelbarrow list came out. SK spells were on it. The restrictions were listed as "Using the restricted spell list" which has become understood to include spells like 420, 515, and yes - 506.

[long dew]

no you are mis-quoting, you're right its slightly different

[spice lintel]

this is why u can't expect people to be updated on all that info, they clearly said grandfather won't be in play for the new sk . and not everyone discord or follows gs news. heck even wiki info is often wrong

[shell mirage]

Agreed. But it shouldn't either be a concern since they also said the SK offerings would not include restricted spells

[long dew]

they say ALOT of things...

[stray ferry]

I'd like you to point to a quote that I made in this thread. Period.

What I did was link to his post, saying it wasn't sustainable. And I told you that I interpreted unsustainable to mean there would be changes. Your allegations of bad faith, and your continued hostility, need to stop.

[shell mirage]

You don't think I'd be all over it if I could nab an SK 1213? I didn't bother gathering or buying up books, or amassing millions of bloodscrip because the wheelbarrow specifically stated I wasn't getting 1213 from it

Take a few moments, Glaves. You came back to the game and we all missed ya. But if you recall when you left it was also because of a discord hill you decided to die upon - and I don't want to see that happen again.

[long dew]

again, your interpretation of the meaning of what someone says, doesn't change the word plain meaning, had he wanted to say 506 wont be back next round because its unsustainable, you'd be right but he DID NOT state that specifically. there was no promise of what would or would not be offered, you are inferring.

[stray ferry]

Yes. I am. And what I inferred is also what happened.

[white vault]

If you all start arguing in here it’s just going to be shut down and not listened to. Making all of this discussion unproductive and a waste of time. Take it to pms or the main duskruin channel please. Glaves I know your upset, but your rhetoric is not going to be helpful here.

[long dew]

wrong player sir

[junior shale]

we were told last time, very very explicitly that there was no guaruntee anything offered there would return or that prices would be the same

[shell mirage]

Oh.. this is a different Glaves? My bad.

[long dew]

np buddy

[long dew]

weird that would be explicitly stated when the whalemart is largely is basically a lesser version of last year's august's list but ok.

anyways i hope the whalemart sales go well. I'm sure people will still find stuff in there they want hopefully, pass for me on the offerings and prices, enough said.

[junior shale]

yeah, so they brought back most of it, and again wyrom stated this might be the last of the wheelbarrow this run as well

[hot wing]

Players: ok
*six months elapses*
Players: you didn't explicitly say 506 won't be available, so it has to be available, because i have money, you see```Love to see it

[long dew]

given the lack creativity in this one's offerings and it being just a lesser version of last august thats probably a great idea, i'd hate to see the offerings this august in lesser, lesser whalemart in six months, better we retire it and come up with something else

[vocal quiver]

People are allowed to have and share their opinions, let's please be nice about it

And let's consider the impact of our statements on the listeners

[long dew]

hopefully its an opportunity to rethink high end offerings and come up with something better

[junior shale]

I mean I am unlikely to buy what is offered this time around, I was planning on doing the 1m enhancive thing if it came back, had potential fodder ready to go, but it is what it is. If that wasn't the intent of that service it wasn't the intent.

But that's my personal opinions on stuff, the prices and offerings are what they are. At least this way I don't feel bad finishing up transmutes that I skipped last DR

[hollow badger]

I think the combiner was great as it was last run. There was no real reason to nuke it.

[stray ferry]

(Transmutes are so good)

[junior shale]

yes my 10x 20/10 CER lance on my bard wants his somnis haha

[shell mirage]

I personally feel offerings are still out of touch, price point wise. Not so much in the HESS... but some of the wheelbarrow pricing has me scratching my head.

[junior shale]

Wyrom's time was the reason to nuke the enhancive thing, he mentioned that those took a huge amount of his personal time, all of these are things he's basically offering and redeeming.

[shell mirage]

25k for ressistance stubs is a steal... but 200k for TD on a shield is a bit ludicrous. There doesn't seem to be a method to the madness as to whether or not an item will be priced to sell, or priced to phase out

[cedar hornet]

I was surprised the enhancives came back at all with how much of a pain they were to work on last time. Guessing the restrictions were to allow it to be offered at all, and that didn't go so well

[junior shale]

I understood that when I chose not to do it last DR, but still hoped it would be back in a more streamlined form, but I think with the battle vault/golem, claim stuff, there just wasn't much time to build a lot of new things for this

[long dew]

agreed completely, i'd would have loved to drop 2 mil for sk/sm 506, but i'm fine with not spending $4600 bucks just the same, just nothing in there that intrests me is all

[shell mirage]

Why is it 500k to add mind wrack flares to something, when you can have a low steel whatever created for scratch for 300k? If your weapon doesn't currently have something in the B slot - it probably needs to be handed down to a newbie anyway.

[junior shale]

doesn't eat your material slot, so you can have somnis or starsong + mind wrack

[long dew]

for the same reason its 500k to add ithzir armor, even though its one of the most oudated scripts, simply because someone paid it, so there's no reason to charge less, like the 200k 4x acid flaring claid, a suckers born every minute

[junior shale]

it also, afik doesn't have the same level restriction that low steel has, so you could use mind wrack on leveling people

[marsh pond]

To expand on this, transmuting away from low steel explicitly removes the flares too

[shell mirage]

500k for ithzir armor is another redonkulous decision. Anyone who picks this over Voln or Ethereal armor script really needs to rethink their class choice

[long dew]

heck of a way to waste 2 mil blood

[junior shale]

it's litterally the only way to get mind wrack flares on something that isn't low steel, and hasn't really been offered that way outside of very specific built items, I actually think the mind wrack for 500k is a pretty cool offering IMO

[long dew]

yeah agreed, i thought it stayed at 500k cause one day they'll update it and add an offensive tree

[shell mirage]

What sort of a twink needs mind wrack flares on their weapon?!? Pre-cap, all classes can hunt perfectly fine with a sharpened stick and a hefty vocabulary of swear words.

[hollow badger]

Can’t have these mind or death flares added to something that has acuity right?

[cedar hornet]

Elanthia-specific swear words.

[junior shale]

I mean noone needs any of this gear, it's whatever people find FUN to do

[marsh pond]

Why do you think the whalebarrow has anything to do with need?

[long dew]

correct they are cat b for low steel and death

[shell mirage]

People with money don't get to be people with money by making pea-brained decisions about their money.

[opaque scaffold]

the very name of it should be a clue that it is not about need, whales live underwater and would not be able to use wheelbarrows

[marsh pond]

They also lack thumbs

[long dew]

hush, how dare you in a few years they'll be challenging monsters and hunting area's where this kinda gear is needed just you wait!

[hollow badger]

This. Which is why the combiner delete is weird. Most anyone buying it already has everything maxed and is just organizing more than anything.

[opaque scaffold]

I mean I don't think there's ever been a claim that you need stuff from DR/HESS/points beyond for anything in the game. really the claim has always been the opposite, that you don't need it

[long dew]

why when it would be easier to sell people extra inventory slots via the simucoin store, like extra locker slots, I'm sorry i shouldn't give them anymore idea's

[opaque scaffold]

doesn't mean you don't want it anyway haha

[spice lintel]

stop lying u aleady told us how much u would pay per functional finger

[shell mirage]

While Brute is right, we already experienced the taxation on QOL when the necklace pouch x/day combiners were treated like they were made from real gold. 1 being released per year... 2 upgraded from unlocks per year. Like... for a QOL item. No mechanical advantage other than to consolidate your x/days.

[hollow badger]

Hey with the new health and mana pools sky is the limit I guess

[long dew]

isn't this where you scold us and tell us that the game is fun and can be played with plain 4x gear again

[opaque scaffold]

I mean it can be lol

I don't think I would characterize that as scolding

I use more punctuation when I'm scolding

[shell mirage]

That's no longer true though. HW cannot be played with anything close to resembling "success" in 4x vanilla.

[junior shale]

sure it can, as a warrior or monk

[hollow badger]

Are 4x gear players really the target audience for the wheelbarrow?

[opaque scaffold]

obviously not lol

[shell mirage]

You show me a warrior or monk in 4x vanilla killing Disir without taking a lance to the dome and I'll buy it.

[long dew]

neither are people who'd be willing shell out $4600 for sk/sm 506 even though the spell in it can be updated anytime apparently

[opaque scaffold]

let's keep the thread focused on the whalebarrow offerings

[shell mirage]

We are. We're discussing why some of the pricing needs to be seriously reconsidered.

[long dew]

maybe tikba would demo that for you 🙂 ok im done sorry

[junior shale]

the pricing is highly highly unlikely to change this DR, but I would recomend well thought-out suggestions to make in the suggustions for next DR, afterall that is how we managed to get the specific transmutes at reasonable costs

[opaque scaffold]

good, then there won't be a problem with keeping on topic lol

[shell mirage]

I'm not trying to say that HW is for everyone. It obviously isn't. But to put successful hunting in the area behind a multiple thousand USD paywall is a bit much IMO. At that point you might as well have Shattered, Prime, Platinum, and GS ELITE Whale Plus.

[long dew]

hopefully, wyrom see this discussion re-evaluates the stance on 506. that is all

[junior shale]

maybe he'll at least do like what he did with SK515 last run and auction off one with a couple price matches

[long dew]

we'll see

[uncut sparrow]

I must be doing something right successfully hunting in HW without breaking the bank on maxed out xazkateddyruxpin gear. Good to know

[long dew]

I really don't think the line of people waiting to drop 1 mil to 2 mil on sk/sm 506 that didnt get it last time is as long as they imagine. Certainly not long enough to upset game balance of a game that had like 750 players at peak time on friday night at DR. And alot of those were people MA'ing the arena with alts anyways

[shell mirage]

I'm not saying you need Wheelbarrow stuff. I'm simply stating you're not doing it in 4x, or OTS gear. You've obviously spent your share of silvers and/or dollars on your character if you're hunting HW without problem.

[uncut sparrow]

Glad we've established it's not locked behind a multiple thousand USD paywall. Progress is good. 👍

[spice lintel]

wyrom is awake~ get the pitchforks out

[long dew]

https://tenor.com/view/riot-south-park-chaos-chainsaw-protest-gif-20878334

[quartz kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/jonsnow-gif-9657129

[lusty glade]

Our latest offering: plot armor.

[shell mirage]

You can argue disingenuously all you'd like. If you've spent 300m worth of silvers on enchanting, ensorcelling, your armor, your shield, your weapons, and your acoutrements you're over 1k USD.

[uncut sparrow]

I haven't, so..

[long dew]

well if you havent sanct'd your gear we know half of HW you're not hunting then, yes you can hunt the level 98 cannibals though

[shell mirage]

I also don't believe you. Either about your gear, or about you "hunting HW perfectly fine". One of those two does not add up.

[uncut sparrow]

I have sancted my gear, and that did not require any spending on my part. Unless you want to shift the goalposts to time=money, I suppose

[long dew]

well its not plain 4x gear then liar, on the upside who did your free sancts i need some of those free ones too

[uncut sparrow]

Try making friends? Lol

[spice lintel]

did the angry mob go to brunch? what happen?

[long dew]

If i had friends I wouldn't be playing gemstone

[long dew]

did you see the size of the sword in that gif, i'm scared quite frankly

[stray ferry]

Folks. HW survivability should go elsewhere. The personal taunts should just stop, please.

[shell mirage]

The long and short of it is HW requires advanced gear. Regardless as to how you get it. HESS offerings can get you there. Wheelbarrow gear allows you to get even further because of bypassing spell sever, or gaining abilities your class is not natively able to have. BUT... that also comes at a premium. So yes - there is a paywall to successful hunting in HW, and I think it's high time pricing was reevaluated among the offerings. In fact, last February's reverse auction should've screamed that exact thing.

But here we are with the wheelbarrow offerings once again only allowing the top 10 accounts to participate.

[quartz kraken]

So 506, I'll see about doing what I did with 515 last time and auction. I don't think I'll do price matching.

[shell mirage]

I'll buy you a new 1990 honda civic for an SK 1213. Kthx.

[spice lintel]

dear wyrom, i wrote you a hateful email, plz reply at your earliest convenience

[long dew]

Do you really think they'll be that many buying for it after it was offered last time, considering the price point, I repsect the sustainability argument, but is that really needed given it was just sold in august, and a couple of us missed it

[cedar hornet]

I am asking this sincerely but in your mind who do you think the Wheel/Whalebarrow should be serving?

[stray ferry]

"Me"

(That's not a crack. I just wish I could buy stuff there.)

[quartz kraken]

I'll move that prop wheelbarrow into your cloak.

[long dew]

i wish it had the 1 thing i wanted to buy

[shell mirage]

I think anyone who has no more ability to gain progress from the HESS listing should be considered as a potential customer for the wheelbarrow. I do not think that is unreasonable. I believe that it can also be done by simply re-evaluating the pricing structure.

[cedar hornet]

Would you consider auction off a more restrictive set of SKs? Level 1 spells, base specific, non-combat, etc? Or add something like that for a smaller price to the wagon?

[clear walrus]

Get a job, hippie! edit: but appopriate typo for gemstone

[stray ferry]

I'm on airplane wifi, but I logged in just in case.

[shell mirage]

(And he was never heard from again)

[hollow badger]

So the combiner is done for then? I have a hard time picturing how it’s considered more op than 506 at the same price point.

[stray ferry]

I'm paraphrasing, but what I understood was that it was much more difficult on the GM performing the service, in addition to any power and balance concerns.

[cedar hornet]

My assumption was that the wheelbarrow was a stopgap for mania/auction to really squeeze out remaining bloodscript from the top 5-1%. But if it's intended to serve the masses, at that point shouldn't the ask for them to be added to HESS (with price revision?)

[gaunt python]

@wyrom please consider just repricing it appropriately and do a last call on it or something. auctioning just makes my stomach turn, isn't that why wheelbarrow was created, so people arent farming up tons of bs only to get outbid by warclaid and stuck with millions of bs for nothing.

[long dew]

you'll just try and cheat, and he'll end up pocketing your $2400, you sir ARE THE easy drain.

[shell mirage]

I'd hate to be the one to say this, but there's no such thing as "stuck with millions of BS". You can unload millions in a day at whatever going rate is without much trouble. Any time of the year.

[spice lintel]

some people hate selling stuff

[cedar hornet]

Assuming there's something else you want instead of holding out the hope that next DR will be the one to offer what you truly want.

[opaque scaffold]

I mean the "masses" are not anywhere near "no more ability to gain progress from the HESS listing" either

[shell mirage]

5% is a far larger number than what the wheelbarrow services. IN fact, can we get some numbers Wyrom? How many sales were done from last years wheelbarrow? How many different characters? What percentage of the GS population actually was able to use the wheelbarrow for more than gawking?

[opaque scaffold]

both groups are a very small percentage of the playerbase

[gaunt python]

buying books directly then trying to off load bs after dr? you just like losing and wasting money

[long dew]

Don't ask questions you don;t wanna know the answer too, there 10-20 (maybe 30 inviduals at most) of us spending at the wheel barrow level if that, we're just buyuing multiple offerings and most of us spending at that level gear alts and MA

[junior shale]

this is something I highly suggest putting in the HESS suggestions , If enough of folks suggest these for HESS it's very possible we might see it pop up in the same way they did the mid-transmutes

[shell mirage]

I bet I was very close with my "top 10 accounts" guesstimate. And considering how many accounts there are, 1% of the population would be a stretch.

[white vault]

Yes yes, let's snowball this into an auction/mania muahahahah

[stray ferry]

   
   
4 silvers have been subtracted from your the County of Torre bank account. 
   
   
1 silvers have been subtracted from your Mist Harbor bank account.
   

'Oh no
You say, "Oh no."

L in my longcloak
In the bearskin longcloak: 
Clothing [1]: a small prop wheelbarrow
Total items: 1

Get wheelbarrow
You remove a small prop wheelbarrow from in your bearskin longcloak.

L in my wheel
There is nothing in the wheelbarrow```

[opaque scaffold]

but I think greatfalls is still accurate with her analysis of what the purpose of the wheelbarrow is -- it's always been for the people who wanted to unload very, very high amounts of BS, not for any median player

[shell mirage]

So I then ask again - what's the point of the event if you're only enriching the top 0.5% of the playerbase with bigger and better gear? This isn't exactly Reaganomics. There's no gear "trickle down effect" where it spills over into the general populace.

[long dew]

this is exactly why the whole not offering 506 is so infuriating: 1) there's not that many people spending at that level anyways, 2) the spell can be changed at anytime, if 506 is such as sustainablity issue, they can modify the spell not stop offering, the spell, its like cutting off a limb to fix a hang nail

[opaque scaffold]

I assume the point of the event is to help make money for the game

[junior shale]

shhhh don't bring your logic in here, this is a place for emotions and acusations!

[long dew]

by not offering what people want? huh? how much are cobbling, golem pets and fluff scripts bringing in?

[opaque scaffold]

...a lot?

[shell mirage]

If making money was the goal, why not have MK items available in the HESS at 200k certificates where a sold 400-500 could be sold? I guarantee you it's more than they're making off a 2m wheelbarrow ask.

[stray ferry]

I don't think there are 500 players spending that. But I also don't think max money, ignore consequences is the goal.

I don't know how they measure consequences, though.

[long dew]

don't worry they make plenty from golem pets, cobbling supplies and cookware, whalebarrow money doesn't come close touching that amount i bet

[opaque scaffold]

wyrom dug into the "why not lower the price and make it up on volume" question previously

[shell mirage]

Again, I bring up last February's reverse auction. A reserve was set and not met on over a dozen items. But these items were simply overvalued, and had people with funds they felt the offering was worth to purchase them. They couldn't, because they were pulled and poofed when the reserve wasn't met. 150k BS is more than 0. The mind boggles.

[long dew]

what consequences, all new SK and SM are NOT grandfathered in, they can change 506 at a whim, consequences? huh?

@quartz kraken whats the point of changing all SK/SM going forward to apply the newer version of X spell then if it wasn't to be able to release them like this for a mil a pop, and modify and change anything later based on sustainability or balance or whatever you wanna call it

[cursive crow]

Can we please all get prop wheelbarrows in a gift box that will interact with our golems? Thank you!

[shell mirage]

These are virtual items. There's no material cost. There's no production overhead, warehousing, shipping, advertisment costs, or packaging margins. There is 0 base price, although there may be time involved in the initial creation. ANY price is therefore more profitable than "no sale".

[clear walrus]

the golems are actually sentient wheelbarrows when complete

[cedar hornet]

Until you ruin the game and everyone leaves 😆 I wouldn't get a 506 because I feel like it'd ruin the challenge.. ofc, I should look into qstrike

[long dew]

ummmm 506 aplies quickstrike to all your actions that use it, weird logic but ok

[cedar hornet]

yeah, I should see how often I can qstrike.. it may or may not also be my subconsious trying to not get me to spend more cash on books

[junior shale]

there is labor cost, there is also opportunity cost, if I sell xyz now, how likely is it that someone buy abc later, and such. There's a lot that goes into pricing digital stuff.

[long dew]

but that still doesnt answer what's the point of changing all SK/SM going forward to apply the newer version of X spell then if it wasn't to be able to release them like this for a mil a pop, and modify and change anything later based on sustainability or balance or whatever you wanna call it

if 506 is the issue, change 506 make it a base floor of 2 secs or whatever and all the SK/SM have the same thing applied. why cut off your arm to cure a hangnail?

[junior shale]

I mean the "may change in the future statement" was not so that the cost would lower (yes that does potentially lower the value, but that is not the concern on the game dev side), it's to lesson the need for a massive amount of labor needed to fix a ton of new items or such if and when that game dev decides something should change.

[long dew]

but if you change 506, all the new sk/sm 506's from last august will be changed too and updated. IF 506 is really unsustainable at 1 sec rt, change 506, why stop selling it? that makes literally 0 sense

[junior shale]

I think we also know that change, especially nerfs, are fought against tooth and nail in this game, with at least 10x what is going on here in this chat, so it is already very hard to do, and unlikely to happen for years if ever with the way divergence fell appart

[long dew]

well they made sure to explicity change how SK/SM work to not be grandfathered, why make that change if not to be able to do exactly what im saying?

[shell mirage]

divergence was a bad idea. Letting bards say "No" to class changes was also a bad idea.

[long dew]

so was passing on 506 last run apparently

[junior shale]

I think divergence was a good idea, poorly implemented in the state that it was it was bad for sure, 1000% on your second statement

[long dew]

I think its telling no one can answer why it's a better idea to not offer 506 (again) at all because its unsustainable, than it is to offer 506 make money, and fix or change 506 if its really a sustainability issue. My hunch is, it was never really about sustainability to begin with

[junior shale]

the fact that I'm fairly sure some people got both SK and SM 506 last time (on the same characters) just so they could have no hinderance 506 in spell sever should tell you that it was probably not priced appropriately, they understood that, warned us that there would be changes to the list of spells

There should not really be any surprise here

[long dew]

again that can be fixed by changing 506 or how hinderance works with it specifically, not refusing to sell it or removing it from the list

[marsh pond]

HW isn’t meant to be soloed. A group of players with 4x gear will do fine in HW! Edit: oops, I was scrolled. Discontinuing off-topics

[shell mirage]

Problem is nobody really cares to answer that. It's a loaded question. They're not removing it from the offerings "because" it's unsustainable. They're removing it because they just don't want it available anymore. Just like all the other spells on the restricted list.

It's easier for them to develop around a world where 506 is a wizard spell.

[long dew]

well @stray ferry is an envoy and he specifically qouted wyrom, and the qoute was "sk/sm is unsustainable" I told him that was untrue and he said i was wrong

if you're right dhairn, why did they bother to change they way new sk/sm works to not be grandafthered from future spell updates

[shell mirage]

SK/SM as a whole is unsustainable. It will eventually balloon into a morass of different spells being completely available in sever areas to anyone with a pocketbook. This isn't the paradigm they desire or there would be no restricted list. To say "506" is the problem is pointing at one symptom of a larger issue.

[junior shale]

I mean, I feel like the GMs would know a whole lot better how the economics of DR and things being sold affect the game and their business a whole lot better than we as players know

[long dew]

its already that way though, type who in game right now, and subtract the MA'ers, there's not alot of us, just a fraction of that is spending at this level

[shell mirage]

So you come up with the fix "506 needs changed then". When the real answer is "All spells on the restricted list need changed". And the long and short of it is that not all the spells on the restricted list are a problem when used by those people they're intended for.

[long dew]

yep nailed it, but the thing is none of them are so bad as to need changed, they exsist as is, but are supposedly so OP so as to cause sustainability issues in sk/sm, when the spell inside the sm/sk will be changed whenever the corresponding spell is, if 515 and 506 are overtuned change them, dont stop offering them lol

[cunning condor]

+5 to volley! If weapon skills could be considered MK.

[shell mirage]

506 is perfectly fine for all uses a wizard has for the spell. They don't want to change it for wizards... so they don't want to have it changed in general. There are already too many cases in Elanthia where the spell is available to people that shouldn't have it, and it's either causing less than desirable development, or clashing with intended future development. The only answer is to plug the leak in the dam, and make the spell unavailable outside of wizards.... and there you have it. A restricted list.

You're not listening, Glaves. 515 and 506 are not overtuned when used by the characters meant to be using them. They're only OP when used by those who shouldn't have access to them. Changing the spell therefore would be an unnecessary nerf to wizards. Again, enter the restricted list.

[daring fractal]

What's wrong with op items?

[shell mirage]

Well.. the word "overpowered" in and of itself includes in the definition something being stronger than intended to negative consequence... so there's that.

[long dew]

You are missing it though buddy, wizards are the ONLY class with spells dedicated to a mutant build, NO OTHER prof has things like haste that enable mutant builds, there's no 506 for pole arm sorcs, or spell aim buffs for bolting bards, wizards shoild have 506, warmage isnt a proffesion wizard is, warmage is no different than a pole arm sorc, they get no haste to make a mutant build viable

[daring fractal]

Does it interfere with your gameplay?

[shell mirage]

Bards have spells dedicated to a mutant build. IN fact, they have haste.

[long dew]

yes i when i see someone with haste, it makes me overcome with anger and i see red, and I can no longer interact with the game window

[cunning condor]

Warmages were deemed legitimate subclass with spells like 902, 509, and time manipulation of 506 in the most recent ELR a decade ago. Just like pure bard is a recognized subclass of bards.

[shell mirage]

I cannot say. If something is overpowered to the point where intended development needs to be changed or forgotten about then YES. It does affect my gameplay.

[long dew]

bards are meant to melee, wizards obviosuly arent. if you choose to melee on a wizard or sorc thats your choice, but you should get an extra spell for it. no one's proping melee sorcs up with haste

[cunning condor]

Like 902

[shell mirage]

You can argue ideas for subclassing all you'd like. All I was doing was explaining why a restricted list exists, and why "just change 506" is not a valid response.

[daring fractal]

I dunno. If someone is willing to pay so much money for something to make them better, but it doesn't change your playstyle, I don't see the harm. I personally like to see people pay lots of money because I want this game to stick around.

[long dew]

you havent been on the other end of another jelaous players balance rants then

gillien's xaz shield and villorn's xaz uac set are interferring with my game play, can Dhairn or another GM help me please or shoudl i assist?

[shell mirage]

I play a higher end paladin. If anyone knows the benefits of SK/SM 506, it's this guy right here with two thumbs. But I've never decided to buy one. And when I WAS considering it, PSM came about and made the spell pointless for me. So you'll understand if I'm having a hard time figuring out why you're dying on this hill.

[long dew]

you lost all credibility at "I play a Paladin" sir

[cunning condor]

Not really. His credibility has always been in question (love you Dhairn)

[tender valley]

Maybe 506 will be offered next dr

[shell mirage]

I'm also not going to pay 2m bloodscrip for an MK of a manuever that I adamantly believe I should already have access to if it weren't for biased development.

[cunning condor]

Can I get volley with it?

[junior shale]

well yeah, it's 1m for MK not 2 (just trying to be a bit light hearted, I totally understand haha)

[shell mirage]

Give me hamstring already. I'm not giving you my BS for it. It's a martial manuever that all squares and semis get... EXCEPT paladins. And the reasons paladins don't get it is, and I quote: "Why do you want it?"

[cunning condor]

Well, why can't you natively cast 506?

[shell mirage]

That would be a fair argument if all squares and semis except paladins could natively cast 506.

[cunning condor]

I mean, I agree with your 506 argument, but if you recognize there are gates to some abilities, then you need to recognize gates

[shell mirage]

And I don't see "I don't feel paladins would be the type to do this sort of manuever RP wise" is good enough reason to gate it. Especially when the person who made that decision was open about not wanting to give paladins anything they didn't already have in the process of helping out all other melee classes.

[marsh pond]

SK is limited to under level 20 right?

[cunning condor]

I think the entire paladin cman list is unutilized wholistically. I'm not going to single out one ability

[junior shale]

20 and under, that is found on scrolls, I linked the list above, but let me find it for you again...

https://gswiki.play.net/Scroll/list_of_eligible_spells this minus 506

There's a much shorter list for non-attuned SM items aka things that can be traded.

The unattuned SM list can be found easily from the pinned link in wyrom's original post

[devout bison]

That’s completely false. 506 has been one of the strongest items I have, it’s game changing

[shell mirage]

And THAT's completely subjective. Which means that it can't be used to say another opinion is "false" or "true".

[cunning condor]

I think the intent of his argument is that it's less game changing now than it was two years ago with offensive maneuver attacks that carry additional RT reducers, assaults, and the general RT reduction for melees, it's value has been generally diminished

[shell mirage]

I swing faster without 506 than I do with. Why? Because PSM lets me swing four times in one second for some of the cycles, and 2 times for the others. 506 only let's me swing twice per cycle, spammed.

[long dew]

whats kinda funny is that other than me (glaves) @junior shale , @gaunt python are the only three i think trying to buy it, which only proves my earlier, point would anyone else that would do 506 sm/sk and has the blood wanna say they would so we can get an idea how many we're really talking about here?

[devout bison]

Because I do everything in 1 second while you don’t. And paired with a relic it’s comical

[shell mirage]

uhm.. I don't?

[junior shale]

ehh I wouldn't be buying sk506 even if it was there haha

[long dew]

you didnt even bond to it for extra swings, heh ROOKIE, we're revoking your warrior title

[devout bison]

Im not saying the game is unplayable not having it. Obviously not. But downplaying having both SK/SM celerity is a game changer

[shell mirage]

I thought I just explained that I do. Not just 1 second per swing.. but in some cases 1 second per FOUR swings. I'm not sure you realize just how fast you can be with PSM. Especially when you can make use of two different assaults.

[junior shale]

the enhancive combiner with fodder? THAT I was ready to buy this go around, but it's not an option so, gonna spend my money or save it, which is what I would suggest if what folks are looking for isn't available do /shrug

[long dew]

@devout bison > @shell mirage clearly

[devout bison]

I realize my TTK is faster than a Paladin using PSM.

It’s not about being better im@just saying it’s incorrect to act like it’s not a big deal

[long dew]

I just wanna be like @devout bison when i grow up, that is all

[devout bison]

There is a huge advantage of paladins not needing the SM I had to get though

@long dew You can’t because you can’t get celerity sorry man

[shell mirage]

... Obviously so do I. He says his TTK is faster than mine, I want in on that dojo.

[long dew]

no but i can become a bard for $4400 dollars less

all that is not to mention celerity works in the pool, and my warrior picks so thats alot of the apeal too

[wary nebula]

Man, the obvious downside of being up late is now I wake up late and miss hundreds of things to catch up on. Alright, sifting through all this and finding out where I even get pinged in here too...

[junior shale]

they'll just sell so many SK items that they need to release spellsever + that only allows 1 SK spell on at a time haha

[devout bison]

What’s your RT for shield throw?

[long dew]

i think the next simucoin store addition wil be addtional character wearable functional/nonfunctional inventory slots, call it a hunch

[shell mirage]

what's a shield

[lusty glade]

I forgot I should check in on that... thanks. 😛

[devout bison]

I’d wear you in my wearable character slot. You on one sleeve Brute on the other

[long dew]

that's Big Brute to you!

[shell mirage]

Out of curiosity, you finishing arena in 100s yet with your 506, Whayle?

[devout bison]

100-105

103-106 is average

[shell mirage]

yeah. You're not faster than me. I don't fail to get 100s unless I stop to do m,y nails, drink a scotch, smoke a cigar, and tell off some guy in Discord.

[wary nebula]

Aha, here's where I was pinged.

There are no weapon techniques I'd pay 1m bloodscrip for, nor even 500k. Wouldn't want to set a precedent that would block pures from ever getting them in the future via Ascension.

||...but I'd totally sell out for like 200k because then I'd just buy Whirling Blade, Clash, Fury, Flurry, and Volley to go wild with. 👀||

[junior shale]

this is a premium benefit already? (and I don't see them letting us have these for a non-subscription thing or an insane cost)

[devout bison]

Right because you get a perfect score everytime

Because I was being honest that don’t happen everytime and neither do you. Melee aren’t getting perfects everytime hoss

[junior shale]

what about if it was 1m for the weapons skills of a full weapon tree, so 1m for bow, or 1m for edged and so on

[shell mirage]

If by perfect you mean 4 second kills, that's the easy part. They're usually dead in 1 or 2 with the round 20 and round 25 sometimes taking 3.

[devout bison]

Same here so sounds like the same?

[opaque scaffold]

This is the funniest example of why SK techniques will probably not happen, I appreciate that you have thought this out already lol

[spice lintel]

i say you both run endless first one to 75 for 100m i will hold the money

[wary nebula]

No, that would be worse. Almost no weapon type tree has more than two actually great techniques in it. (The one that does is brawling if you're in a build that can make good use of both Clash (needs you to be good with katars) and Spin Kick (needs you to have Evade Specialization and Kick Specialization).)

[junior shale]

I also hope they DONT allow weapon skills, as I do hope that pures will be able to get them through ascension later, but...

[shell mirage]

I'm done wasting time in endless.

[spice lintel]

ok dhairn doesn't want the smoke, who wants to go against whayle? best time to 50 @hollow badger come get some

[junior shale]

only 50? pretty sure I could get to 50 pretty fast if I turn on all my enhancives for max CS with sk515, but like... that's also a bother so I concede

it's post 50 where things really slow down when TD's get 600+

[spice lintel]

that is why we can't go too far, we want to be fair

[tall shard]

This is easy to proctor as well, just have people in the seats watching each fight and say something the moment the last champion falls

[junior shale]

I admit this is something that could be kinda fun to setup though, just can't do it atm

[spice lintel]

just surrender after 50 and u don't waste too much time

[junior shale]

do it while they are doing a cheap seats event so people could watch, make it a whole thing haha

[devout bison]

Sir no

[devout bison]

You tryin to keep me from getting that title.
I see your plan now.

[spice lintel]

too late vaemyr already said he was going to see u at wrestlemania

[devout bison]

Arenamania

[devout bison]

Just to watch me get out done by naked rangers, I don’t think so

[tall shard]

If Whayle doesn't show, Vaemyr wins by default and claims the title of "Biggest Fish"?

[north kelp]

Revenue. Why wouldn't they go after a quick $50k? Especially if they're up against it year over year.

[devout bison]

King Tuna

[calm prawn]

I would swipe SO hard

[calm prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/money-shutup-take-gif-7953571

[gilded island]

Now you're learning. Make them fight to the death for the single offering of SK506.

[ionic notch]

can i paid like 250k for 1202? lol

[hot wing]

I’d love tiered SK groupings

[long dew]

what about for plate users that need both sk/sm 506, that's more why i wanted it avilable normally

[ionic notch]

since my cestus keeps falling on deaf ears

[gilded island]

I like how we're coming full circle back to auctions.

Bring back NBOTB! It allows for all the situations covered in todays ... conversation?

Need a high end offering? SK506 - Reverse Auction - 5m opening bid, 2.5m last chance price.
Need a lower end offering? SK401 - MB: 100k
We've already done MK at it once and they went for 250k, not 1 million.

Stop trying to squeeze out every last drop of blood and let the market set the value.

If a full auction is too much work ... Come up with a newly automated NPC for the SK/MK.

ask NPC for spell list
ask NPC about spell 215
The NPC says, I can apply a SK215 tattoo for the low low cost of 1 bloodscrip. Ask me about spell 215 again to apply your new 215 tattoo.

[north kelp]

Not that i matter, but I’d be in on it too

[long dew]

cool appreciate it, im just trying to get an idea how many of we're actually talking about an auction which is cool but im in plate so i need both sk/sm to make it work. So that's 4 of us total so far that would grab 506 if it was offered. Anyone else?

[crimson elm]

i believe 506 tattoo was the biggest selling item in last whalemart

idk what that means for how many would still need to buy it this time tho

[long dew]

yeah thats why im wondering how many other than the 5 that spoke up there are, there's a few but maybe 10 or less?

[crimson elm]

yea really not sure!

[north kelp]

They’d have to make a decision before books close. I’m sitting on everything i need for now, and I’m not gonna farm an extra mil to hold on the chance this opens up
***EDIT - I didn't realize book sales stayed open until almost the end. For some reason I was thinking they closed on 3/1 --- ***

[long dew]

yeah same im pondering how long i wanna wait to see if there's a change in heart before i just save myself $4400 and become a bard instead for $200

[wise lake]

You could somewhat nerf SK506 outside of use by wizards by closing the SM506 loop hole. If you activate the spell via a self mana item then you only get the self mana version regardless of your spell knowledge. You could also have magic items subject to spell hindrance in heavy armors too.

Then again if I'm in prime, I'd just multi account with a bard and use song of tonis and save me thousands of dollars.

[crimson elm]

i dont see this chanding personally - save some to try for the auction maybe? but i can't imagine 506 is coming back to the whalebarrow this time around - i dont think we've made any compelling arguements that it should 😛

[north kelp]

Haven’t really heard any compelling arguments on why it shouldn’t though 🤷🏻‍♂️

[long dew]

yeah the auction's not an option, im a plate user i need both sm/sk

[north kelp]

Also, I think the compelling argument is:

1. it already exists in game
2. it hasn’t broken the game
3. more people are willing to spend money on it

[crimson elm]

there are some, not i, but some who will disagree with you on some of these points - which i think is a root of the issue

[long dew]

add new sk/sm are updated to any future spell changes to the list, if 506 is that bad they can update the spell all existing sk/sm's at the same time

but if truly only 5 of us on record, and maybe 10 total wanna grab after last DR, it's hard to see why this is even a debate

[long dew]

i'm not sure how fast X creature dies infront of me, in any way affects your gameplay. or how'd you'd even know you guys pay alot more attention to other people its weird

[north kelp]

I’m not really gonna get bent outta shape about it though. If it opens up, cool, would love to have it. If not, saves me some money!

Just wanted to throw it out there that there was another interested player over here.

[junior shale]

I mean the reason to not want to sell more, is they don't want more to exist than there are now, there's probably more than they wished were out there already after last DR. Yes it sucks, but it's not a money thing I don't think

[wise lake]

The only other feedback I'll add is this announcement should have occurred at least a month in advance well before Duskruin. I'm not trying to slam anyone but players have expectations and a lot of this could be avoided I think if these announcements occurred way in advance of the event rather than during the event. While this game has gotten better at things like year in advance paid event schedules it seems it still lags behind in other areas.

Especially since we're still stuck with a ridiculous order of operations that makes it imperative for players to plan out weapon and armor projects to ensure the player does not make a costly mistake that essentially forces the player to purchase expensive skill potions to progress their projects.

[long dew]

i've never walked into a room seen someone one shot a bunch creatures fast with a nice AS and been like, yeah thats ruining my experience if anything im like, yeah thats awesome tell me how I can do that too please

[north kelp]

Having just gotten back to the game right before last DR, i didn’t even know what the wheelbarrow was. I didn’t even know what i missed 😅

[spice lintel]

But even if they gave warning last dr , there is no reason why that info couldn't have been provided at the start of this one if they plan to not offer this time

[long dew]

I think you are vastly under estimating the time, creativity and effort that went into taking a list last august offerings, crossing a few off and posting it to the discord, the nerve of you sir

[crimson elm]

i agree - i know others definitely do not - but to be clear, i definitely do - i think it's a pve game and everyone should just be as busted op as they want cuz it doesnt matter to anyone else 😛 - again just MY opinion though

[ionic notch]

I'm thinking we should spend our money and go golfing instead? anyone?

[long dew]

everyone OP and having fun if they wanna pay for it, thats sounds like a terrible game

[ionic notch]

I'm willing to fly somewhere to go golfing with the money i'm not going to spend...

[long dew]

is there beer?

[long dew]

here's your invite, i'm a member. http://www.bajacountryclub.com/

[long dew]

I see your point, i just see the demand outside the 5 us already named, and maybe 3-5 more outside of that at most, I just think given the few that weren't able to grab it last time I dont think it will do anymore harm than the number already out there.

It's a parallel universe when you have to debate with a company to take your 2400 -4600 entertainment dollars

[gilded island]

I was considering it, just to future proof. GS is very much abuse early, abuse often. Or do without

[long dew]

eh its cheaper to just be a bard

[gilded island]

Which is why I'm a Bard now lol

I was considering it for an eventual Warrior swap.

[long dew]

yeah im just going back to bard, not worth the fight, considering the money saved, makes it easy.

[white vault]

What I want to see in the wheelbarrow: a glass house. White Ferrari. A sign that says live for New Year’s Eve.

[cunning condor]

If someone wants to drop $20k on a whalebarrow, I'm completely ok with them having a Mustang mount. Ferrari is a bit more far fetched :p

[ionic notch]

Am I able to remove the bonuses from my cestus and splitter it?

[vagrant orchid]

it's the only cert that doesnt say "NO UCS!!!" if I didnt have 50 points of bubble flares on my paingrip I'd ask the same question!

[wise lake]

The conditions for the splitter say no enhancives and no sub scripting. Bubble Flares are neither of those and you should be able to split it per the rules Wyrom stated.

[vagrant orchid]

would that be useful? using UCS, would having a Xaz paingrip in each hand let them both flare? I know if I'm using UCS and have my paingrip in my left hand, it still flares

[wise lake]

Weapon cannot have enhancives or any subscripting.
Can remove enhancives and subscripting at no extra cost.
Cannot move properties, they will be lost if you wish to remove them.```

If bonuses refers to enhancives, then yes you should be able to at no cost.  Those bonuses would be lost though as in deleted for good.

The overall flare rate is supposed to be smoothed (averaged) out for multiple held weapons and gloves being worn. If you have 2 held UCS weapons with dispel flares as an example, they can both fire off during the same attack. Overall though, you're suppose to see about the same overal flare rate.

The splitter service is still really great at providing two weapons that have a material property, S6, T5, +50 enchant, and cat b flares.

[vagrant orchid]

got it, thank you!

[opaque scaffold]

if you have a death metal item in each hand you would see fewer total flares because some of those flares would be both hands flaring

but...that can't happen haha

[noble mantle]

Can we get feats next DR? Dragonscale Skin, Light Armor Proficiency ....

[hollow badger]

no, afaik it just halves the flare rate

[fluid cedar]

for some reason i had thought splitter was a subscript and would allow for an item script, sad it does not. NOW the only wheelbarrow item i have any hope for is if the decide to go with the enhancive combiner, i have a set of plate and a shield that between the 2 give +40 dex and +40 agi...... and since the shield is easily replaceable i would gladly destroy that to have the enhancives on my plate alone.

[north kelp]

for SK --- is 1109 ever considered? +15 Spirit TD, +25 DS, +15 AS.... seems pretty solid

[spice lintel]

no point in getting the sk version over self mana since there is no lore benefit &it is good enough where it is the top choice for self mana (should be one of the 2 spell severs)

[wise lake]

Nope. Thats on the cant have it list.

SM will be this list, unattuned.

101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 117
201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 209, 210, 211
301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 315
401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, 408, 409, 410, 411, 412, 413, 414
501, 502, 503, 504, 507, 508, 509, 510, 511, 512
601, 602, 603, 604, 609, 611
701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 708, 709
801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820
901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 916
1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114
1201, 1202, 1203, 1204, 1205, 1206, 1207, 1208, 1209, 1210, 1211, 1214, 1215
1601, 1602, 1604, 1607, 1608
1700, 1701, 1704, 1705, 1706, 1707, 1708, 1709, 1710, 1716

Or, if attuned, it can use the same list we populate for feeders. Spells 20 and under that you might find on a scroll or in the treasure system.

SK tattoos same as the attuned list.

Sk isnt subject to spell sever or burst so there are reasons for it depending on where you hunt.

[north kelp]

got it - thanks Ruse - i know you sent that list earlier, sorry to make ya do it again... saving it down now

[hot wing]

Also, 1109 is Melee AS only - not ranged or bolt AS. Just something to keep in mind if you ever do have the opportunity to get it, depending on your needs

[north kelp]

well krikey... no 215, 712, or 506... guess is my SK plans are foiled

[wise lake]

Gotta read the fine print. You can have those as an SK tattoo

But not 506

[north kelp]

ahhh, so anything on a scroll is ok, if attuned. So 215 and 712 are back in the mix

[junior shale]

that list is for creating an item that can be passed between characters, https://gswiki.play.net/Scroll/list_of_eligible_spells minus 1750 and 506
Is the list you can get as a character bound tattoo

[north kelp]

got it - i just realized Ruse's list was SM.... since SK is inherently attuned, it opens up to more.

Cool, thanks everyone. First time exploring SK here

[junior shale]

not that it'll probably matter as you might just be looking for the buff, but the backlash part of 712 is sorcerer only, other classes don't have access to the verb to set it

[north kelp]

yeah, just looking for 2 things: Maximize generic TD, maximize AS

[spice lintel]

if it is first time sk it is pretty much 215 or 613

[north kelp]

613 is just spirit TD though, right?

[junior shale]

all spells give half their TD to the other

so if something gives 20 spirit TD it gives 10 mental and elemental

like 712 gives "sorcerer TD" which is weird and gives .75 to elemental and spirit, and .5 to mental (all this does is not very well documented on the wiki)

sorc td is the only weird one, all other base lists use their school of TD, so you just have elemental spirit, mental and then sorc which is elem/spirit

[north kelp]

this has been super helpful. Thank you Vaemyr and @wise lake
((shifts his bs over to TD boost for armor instead))

might still go 215 though

[junior shale]

so comparing 613 to 712, assuming you are gonna train the blessings lore for 215 already for more AS

613 at 95 blessings lore is gonna be 30 spirit td and 15 elemental 15 spirit and 20 sorc, vs 712 which is 5 more DS but only 20 sorc, 15 spirit, 15 elemental, 10 mental

215 is very solid, one of the ones I consider worth the price tag IMO

[north kelp]

surprisingly - the blessings lore grind doesn't look that bad for a rogue, and it benefits both 613 and 215, so there's a lot of synergy there...
now i just need to account for what I'm going to do when Wyrom opens it up to 506 for us out of the kidness of his zombified heart. I like to think he's more of the 'Warm Bodies' zombie than 'World War Z'

[junior shale]

well I mean that's why you wait till the end to purchase

[long dew]

If someone won’t take your 2400-4600 dollars you should just thank them. There’s something inherently off about needing to beg someone to take all that money from you. Go buy a motorcycle enjoy the warm weather this summer

[cedar hornet]

1720 would be an interesting SM item.. with enough arcane symbol training and enhancives you could become immune to all level 13 and below spells.. ofc, that's also 1M BS convienence charge vs getting charged crystalline prisms

[wise lake]

1720 would be good in sanctum and atoll. 309 and 1210 immunity

[cedar hornet]

I wonder if that 250 is a real cap or if you can block Mana Burst with 275

[noble mantle]

Looks that table was made before Ascension was released.

[junior shale]

1720 is quite good in hinterwilds as well, I don't have SM but I have 7x/day one and it stops 1706, 1210, and several other spells things there cast

[wise lake]

For a profession that can single MIU, it's good for:
701, 1106, 201, 502, 703, 705, 1706 (maybe not as Im not sure it qualifies as targeted), 1201, 1207, 505, 1101, 306, 1005, 702, 706, 904, 906, 901, 1707, 903, 1602, 1203, 501, 504, 302, 607, 1206, 1603, 1002, 603

For a profession that can double MIU it expands to:
311, 309, 1211, 409, 1108, 111, 510, 708, 1710, 908, 910, 1709, 611, 711, 210, 1008, 609 (maybe?), 610 (maybe?), 1210, 110

225 total ranks
912 (maybe?), 512 (maybe?), 312, 212, 412

250 total ranks
713, 413, 1013

The wiki says target spells so some spells are unclear (to me at least) as to whether they are considered targeted or not.

[winter compass]

It would be nice to have the 506 option again. Debating if I can afford the 1m to do something and that's probably the best bet if it's there.
Otherwise, 215 maybe, but I can get that off a scroll.
1109, of course, would also be highly desirable.

[noble mantle]

Only downside to 506 is not having a blink weapon.

[winter compass]

The thing with changing the offerings is that sometimes people save up for a long time to do one thing and when it’s not there that run, it’s disappointing.

Consistency. 🙂
I understand there’s a need for game balance, but the handful of people who will pay 1 million for something is fairly low, and the item ends up character attuned too. It doesn’t seem like it should affect much.

[crimson elm]

did you hear what i said Denver? Or should i turn it up for you?

[winter compass]

There are a good number of much more broken things out there. 🙂 May as well allow it again here.

[glossy grail]

1109 work with hurlers?

[long dew]

It’s not happening. Save yourself $2200 and go bard

[winter compass]

No.

[crimson elm]

defiance!

[long dew]

Get it at the auction if you can outbid everyone else

You probably won’t end up paying more than double what folks did 6 months ago

[long dew]

no it's melee only, that was easy. ask me another

[glossy grail]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladden swallow?

[long dew]

about tree fiddy

[glossy grail]

Thought you were a whale, not Nessy. Jokes aside. Has anyone actually tried hurling with 1109? I know it has some odd mechanics.

[long dew]

sadly its hard to whale when they don't offer what you want

[wise lake]

1109 definitely only affects melee. Not ranged or thrown.

[long dew]

I hurl, and had sk 1109, it def doesnt work

[glossy grail]

Breaking my heart and making me rewrite my priority for SKE. For a hurler, what would your #1 choice be in SKE? Excluding 506

[wise lake]

It's the same list as always. 1109 is never really an option as it is not found on scrolls. 425 is not found on scrolls.

If your hurler is an ethereal string though I'd just make an empath to replenish stamina with 1107 and to funnel mana.
The whole point of going hurling is because of the lower ranged DS of most mobs compared to melee. You're not suppose to need big AS really.

[spice lintel]

215-->1605-->307

[wise lake]

You dont need a 307 SK imo
You can still wear it in spell sever zones because it counts as a group spell. Clerics can make them cheap.

[glossy grail]

Need a big AS and want are two different things. I'm ideally looking for what ridiculous would look like. The hurler has a string, is already pretty nuts as a weapon. I'm just wanting to make sure I don't pick up some SKE that like 1109, wouldn't work with hurling.

[hollow badger]

if you have below 1000 AS as a warrior do you even have any self respect

[calm prawn]

Rip

[devout bison]

I’m tryin boss

[long dew]

Change of heart on 506? Please?

[white vault]

https://tenor.com/view/palla-deserto-desert-hot-gif-6014273

[long dew]

Can we please get the 1.5 mil greater transmute as an option like it was last time please

[quartz kraken]

They didn't sell last time. What would you even want?

[long dew]

death metal, just would like to save the 500k because leaving the material isnt that important to me

since this is the last time doing the material will be an option for a bit im not sure i wanna do both at the same time, i dont mind the 2 mil for the cat b, its having to decide and the material transmute at the same time

i do sincerely wish you'd reconsider 506, but if you dont i respect that but i would purchase both the sk/sm version i didnt have funds to do both last time

[quartz kraken]

They are SK tattoos, I know someone else mentioned making an SK/SM combination item, that isn't something being offered.

[long dew]

I understand completely i'm more than willing to buy both the SM and sk 506, if they arent on the same item, thats not an issue, one tattoo, one on whatever, ifs its character bound also fine with that. im a plate user/warrior. I'm not ever reselling it

can you confirm whether or not 1720 provides any benefit over 250 ranks?

[north kelp]

2nd potential 506 purchaser here 👋🏽

[long dew]

We fought the good fight man. No shame

[gilded island]

Wyrom: So 506, I'll see about doing what I did with 515 last time and auction.  I don't think I'll do price matching.

#1210863889089040434 message

You just have to fight each other for it. May the biggest whale feed!

[reef eagle]

I would be tempted to say I want a greater transmute to convert a shield to Low Steel, but I'd likely back out at the cost this run.

Strike that, what I really want is mindwrack flares for shields.

[cedar hornet]

He did auction off 2 515 SKs last DR. they went for 1.5mil each (not sure if they were price matched or not)

[white vault]

I hope there is some sort of auction. Mainly because I enjoy the mystery and surprises. 🙂

[winter compass]

I don’t like it much myself, sadly. At least it is faster now, but it’s hard to make time to attend. The wheelbarrow or HESS is efficient.

[cedar hornet]

I like seeing the unique offerings, goofy stuff.. interesting items, etc.. Almost nothing sells for a price I'd be willing to spend.. ofc I wrote off being able to afford the silver auction last year and didn't even bother with it.. and I looked at the list later and there were a handful of items I not only could afford, but would spend that much or more on

[opaque scaffold]

I don't mind auctions but morvik has succinctly outlined why if there is an auction it should be separate from shenanigans and explicitly for very high ticket items

[junior shale]

I mean it's a time thing, it's a huuuge ask for wyrom to try and do two events, especially if one was just to handle like three items.

[opaque scaffold]

I agree haha

[gilded island]

The automated auction was perfect once the bugs were worked out. I assume ... they didn't like the price things were selling for and wanted higher prices.
Example: Martial Knowledge... 1 million bloodscrip during this event. While at auction, the highest Rank 5 MK was 610k, with the lowest going for 250k.

You can find the auction information here, if anyone needs a refresher:

https://gswiki.play.net/Duskruin_Mania/February_2023

[quartz kraken]

I'm going to go ahead and give a last warning for comments like this where the narrative is something like we are trying to screw players over. The reason the automated auction hasn't come back is because even with running it, everyone was asking me to run a live event on top of it all. Trust me, turning on an automated auction is way easier for me and the staff that assists. But having this on top of everything else adds a lot of extra work. When I run an auction or mania or shenanigans, and it's requested for multiple amounts of them, I have to do it in all three instances. The automated auction is less work, but it's not zero work.

If we didn't want something to sell for a value, we'd exclude that value. We put pricing at what we think it should sell, there will be discrepancies, there are only a handful of human eyes looking over these things.

[gilded island]

Am I allowed to respond to that?

[stable cipher]

I appreciate the transparency Wyrom and what you and the team do!

[quartz kraken]

Sure, you can respond to it. But saying we're trying to squeeze money out of players or some of the previous comments where you were saying I plan to screw over players on making golems is a narrative I'm asking to stop.

[hollow badger]

I think SK and MK could benefit from having tiers, like top grade, mid range, and trash level, but yea that would require someone to go through and assess everything which is too much work and likely won't happen.

[gilded island]

I never said you were trying to screw anyone over, and never would, because that's not who you are. At the same time, that doesn't mean you don't or won't try to get higher prices, or establish a baseline cost for certain upgrades.

[quartz kraken]

The MK stuff, I will admit, we're trying to see what works with them.

They seem pretty lackluster overall.

Likely due to how ranking works.

[hollow badger]

Only thing I can see going for 1m would be like berserk which is off anyway

[wary nebula]

I honestly want a whole thread about tiered pricing at some point. SKs and MKs are a microcosm, but it affects other things too like script adds, TD, and to an extent even transmutes (and I love transmutes, but I would have been all over 1d1 starsong and lesser aganjira transmutes--except they're not here).

It's tough. I agree in a generalized sense with the idea that prices definitionally aren't too high as long as the market will bear them, but once people stopped even trying for the vast majority of HESS purchases at spin night (when that was still a thing), there's very much a question of whether the market even is bearing those prices (for those specific items, not the ones that continued and continue to sell).

Same with the MK situation being brought up now, though that's hazier because so far it's mostly been done in auction format, which muddies the waters as people hold back when not knowing whether they can go all out or not.

[long dew]

I appreciate the transparency. Thank you

[quartz kraken]

We haven't even put out the wheelbarrow, but I can already say that this will be the last run of SK, SM, and MK at the current offerings. I agree with Leafiara that it needs to be pulled apart a bit and not all the same costs. Like 101 should not cost the same as 215.

Rank 3 of headbutt should not be the same as rank 3 of a martial stance.

I'd fix this now and maybe delay SK, SM, and MK, but I don't want to upset anyone since a lot of planning goes into it all. And that kind of goes back to why there are delays to getting these out. We don't have a team of people doing these things. GS has one employee over the game. Most my GMs have day jobs or tasks at home, so time is limited for them too. There were plans to update it since August, but I swear to you, August to February happens in a week.

[gilded island]

I think there would be a lot of benefits to making things more modular and affordable on the lower end of the spectrum. Adding automation where feasible. For example: The +1 Skill/Stat Bonus.

If there were a way to convert the Sylinar NPC to some new NPC that allows variable pricing based on the end bonus, where going from +1 stat to +2 stat is cheap (5k) vs going from +14 stat to +15 stat is full price (50k). People as a whole would be more likely to participate, and participate more often as they build up to something larger.

[wary nebula]

I swear to you, August to February happens in a week.
I play the game, so I believe it. 😂

[quartz kraken]

I know if I pivot and change MK pricing to a ranked pricing or change SK/SM pricing based on spell or power, I will be eaten alive, even it it's cheaper.

As a guy, playing a guy, playing a zombie, being eaten alive keeps me up at night.

[gilded island]

I'm not sure I agree with that. Nobody is going to complain about paying less. But it does make it far more complicated to try to place value on each skill/spell. Because the value of each skill/spell depends on who the person is, where they hunt, this, that, etc.

[hollow badger]

Nobody is going to complain about paying less.
This is a pretty safe rule for something like this.

[gilded island]

Hold on, let's see what Glaves says lol

[long dew]

what about the people who will pay more for something like 215? i assume if some go down others have to go up right?

[wary nebula]

Spellbound does demonstrate that players are okay with spells in X/day form being wildly different prices, so I figure it would be intuitive if SKs (and MKs) were similar at some point. But yeah, anything going up from the already stated 1m mark during this specific run could be a problem. Anything going down, maybe not so much. 😄

[gilded island]

People say I price things high. Would you like me to price these new offerings

[long dew]

i think freezing it like it is instead of changing direction mid course is perfectly reasonable

[quartz kraken]

Let me talk this over tomorrow!

Tomorrow being today.

Today being the 28th.

[wary nebula]

My Duskruin-addled brain appreciates the layered clarifications.

[gilded island]

There's already a pricing formula btw, it's used when normal MIU items are sold during events. I don't know how well it would translate over to bloodscrip but there is a value ranking for spells already.

[hollow badger]

See now this is where it's gonna get tricky. If some things go down in price - everyone's happy, if other things go up.... not so much. Then again I don't even know if 215 was on the list of offered things anyway.

[wary nebula]

215 was on the list last time, at very least. I know someone who bought it.

[quartz kraken]

Yeah, 215 is 20x more expensive than 101 per charge for spells. We'd have to come up with a different way to do it.

[long dew]

I believe 215 is still availble this time i didnt see anything to the contrary

[wary nebula]

I can see how SKs would be tricky and there would probably need to be some absolute minimum price before everyone runs out and gets a slew of DS/TD boosters for spell sever areas. (...they probably would even with a minimum price, but hey.)

MKs don't even have that particular obstacle, though. Or, at least, the ones that aren't martial stances or passive bonuses don't.

Edit: I'm pretty much in agreement with leaving things alone this run, even if only so the necessary time can be taken to really get it right. (Way more applicable to SKs in particular, again.)

[long dew]

hence why I agree leaving it alone for this run is the most prudent course of action

[gilded island]

I need to know what Glaves is planning before I agree with leaving it alone 😛

[wary nebula]

If this were day 1 or even week 1 of Duskruin, I'd probably not agree with leaving it alone, but we're pretty surprisingly close to the end already!

[long dew]

i agree with that. I'm definetely not saying i dont love the idea of tiering, them i just dont think the timing is now

[quartz kraken]

I don't know if nearly 2 weeks is close to the end, but I agree we're at the halfway point.

[wary nebula]

I call it the "oh no, Duskruin will be over before I know it!" point. 😄

[gilded island]

https://gswiki.play.net/User_talk:GS4ALASTIR/Automated_Enhancer

This is the kind of system I'm suggesting in place of the +1 skill/stat boost certificates in the HESS.
(Shamelessly stolen from EG's Sylinar)

[winter compass]

If the price drops for some SK/MK, I’m all for it and seeing what the tiered options are. 🙂

[hollow badger]

I think if low grade SKs are reasonably priced they could become quite popular. The people going after 506/515/215 would always historically define the price of SKs, but I'm sure there are way more people who'd be looking to get average to mediocre SKs if they were priced at something like 100-250k

[crimson elm]

On paper it sounds reasonable, but in practice can often end up being more complex.

Potential complaints that could arise right now even if the only change was lowering the price on lower tier sks could include:

people upset because they already made their purchases at DR/spent how much they wanted to for the event and now feel like they will be missing out if they don't spend more and/or that their initial purchases were now mistakes

people who paid X for said SK last DR but now it has been reduced in price could also be a spot for friction

folks are likely to value different sks at different price points/tiers relative to each offering and evaluations will most likely vary, so there is bound to be discussion and potential conflict on the tiering too

I can definitely forsee potential customer friction points associated with such a move, especially with abrupt timing.

[hollow badger]

I'm sure there are people who'll complain that the sun rises at the wrong time, but so what. The price reduction argument being an issue... meh, we've already been through that with 506 and 515 with them selling for about 10-20% of what people used to pay in the past. Not the end of the world.

[crimson elm]

yea i think the people who paid X for it last time and now its less are probably the least feelsbad risk overall, there is generally speaking a tolerance for price changes over time and often times an early adopter premium consumers accept - the time is the key influencer in this particular case for sure

but remember how many refunds wyrom had to do last DR when transmutes got added for starsong and surita so closely after RW and they were the way cheaper/better way to make weapons with those materials?

[wary nebula]

Hmm, you might have just accidentally flipped me over to the "maybe they should change it now if it's still possible* side. Maybe kicking the can down the road doesn't solve anything. The quandaries you're bringing up would only be exacerbated if things don't change until after there have been two wheelbarrows worth of precedent instead of one.

...and that's talking about SKs. The MKs are even more precarious because for now there are zero wheelbarrows worth of precedent and nobody's spent any bloodscrip yet to possibly get upset about over price drops later. (At absolute most, they've spent Simucoins, but... how could they really have planned their purchases around it when right now we don't even know what's allowed and what isn't?)

By bringing up extra layers of complexity, though, what you've really made me ponder is two questions:

1. Which spells even sold as SKs in August?
2. Of those that did, would any of them even be under consideration for a hypothetical price reduction?

[gilded island]

This was in February of 2023.

Elemental Spell Circle Tattoo    Self Knowledge - 400s, 500s, 700s, 900s - Found on Scrolls only. No 506.    725,000

712 was chosen for this one.

Spiritual Spell Circle Tattoo    Self Knowledge - 100s, 200s, 300s, 600s, 1600s - Found on Scrolls only.    800,000

215 was chosen for this one.

Self Knowledge Tattoo    Self Knowledge - Found on scrolls. 506 + 1109 Allowed.    2,100,000

506 was 2.1m

Then there was also hamstring for 610k
Surge of Strength (2) for 450k
and Tackle for 250k

[crimson elm]

yea i think the strongest argument of backlash risk is actually point 1, just that folks who have already made their spends and purchases may now find themselves frustrated by new purchase options when they were already "done" and thus will regret their recent purchases or feel strong armed into spending more

the number of folks who purchased sk from the wheelbarrow in August, along with the targeted customer base probably makes point 2 a minimal to non issue realistically

there are probably other potential pitfalls i'm not considering - but i was really just bringing it up because I just kind of find it fascinating how humans can somehow take statement like "Nobody is going to complain about paying less." (which seems completely reasonable on the surface!) and somehow turn it into a "hold my beer" moment. 😛

[gilded island]

It's been 4 days as of ... 2 hours ago.

So the "strongest argument" seems to have no basis in reality.

Also, as a Company, I would want to create incentives for people to spend more, because, the point is to make money.

We can continue to complain about, literally anything, and everything, but it's probably best if we don't?

[white vault]

Throwing out a wild idea. One DR a year! But this DR gets to have the big auction etc hype things. That way there are 3 or 4 weeks between DRs. 🙂

[wispy nymph]

How are there 3 or 4 weeks between DRs if there is only one DR per year? Is DR 11 months long??

[white vault]

Timey wimey stuff.

[hollow badger]

does the 11 months long DR get the 2x boost though?

[white vault]

I'll allow it.

[cedar hornet]

iirc, Stillfront wants 1 pay for event per quarter.. gotta keep that quarterly profit chart looking good. ofc, can replace one with Lumnis since that's supposed to me much more hands off to run.. I dunno 🤷‍♂️

[long dew]

I think the thing that gets lost, is as much as we call can agree and staff does too that some prices need to go down, that also means some prices invariably have to go up, half way through the event isnt the right time to turn over the apple cart

[cedar hornet]

Would be interesting to see how many people get up in arms.. I agree any change causes a ton of complaints, but dunno at what point they become worth caring about.. (ofc, I'm also biased here since I want a cheaper 601 SK).

Since you mentioned 515 being auctioned, are you planning on doing a handful of auction items again? If so, any chance for doing some limited SKs, such as 'only a level one spell' or 'X spell circle below Y'

It'd be interesting to see if anyone bites a MK item at 1m. Based on previous sales, I would expect it to be 500k. I haven't heard anyone talk about actually buying one

[long dew]

for someone like me who wants 215 or 1720, it means I would have to likely pay more when i've already budgeted out for the event as announced

[cedar hornet]

yeah, I think it'd be nicer to have a 1m bs limit and discounts for stuff.. but it does sound fairly time consuming to determine rankings.

[long dew]

I do agree that MK is overpriced, i thought it shoulda been a round 400-500k based on auction prices

[cedar hornet]

And it sounds like Wyrom wanted it to be different than 'take last years list and cross off a few items that didn't sell' but ran out of time

[long dew]

i personally can't see MK for 1 mil being that popular, but im sure someone, probably one of the 3 remaining paladin players will buy shield throw 🙂

[winter compass]

I have Bullrush and don’t really use it. Shield Throw would just be another one. If it were cheap, though, I would definitely get it

[long dew]

personally, at a 400-500k price point the MK's become a much more interesting option. It'd def force me to think about slippery mind

[tender valley]

I’d love to put MK 5/5 tackle on some rusalk bracers.

[marsh pond]

Specializations or stances would be my top wants for MK. Evade spec, punch/grapple spec, and dervish. And Coup of course, for style points

[ionic notch]

i just want cheap 1202

[winter compass]

I would like blockspec and shield riposte.

[long dew]

you are a warrior at heart trapped in a paladin shell 🙂

[winter compass]

Hey, I already have Tackle. 🙂 Works great in the arena

[junior shale]

do we know if MK this time around does include "feats" my assumption was no, but figured I'd ask about it.

[north kelp]

SK 215 or 613

Is there any chance for insight as to whether either of those might be pulled from future offerings?

Asking as someone who’s trying to budget long term and MIGHT be able to pick one up this DR, but don’t want to gamble on what may or may not be available in the future.

While also trying to plan if i can have all my bloodscrip drained from a potential 506 auction, and its implications 🥴

[quartz kraken]

Wheelbarrow is likely only approved as is per run. I think after this run of Duskruin, I need to do some serious work on how things are priced, worded, and offered.

[hot wing]

Tie-red pri-cing! clap clap clapclapclap

[quartz kraken]

Yes, the tie will be red.

[stray ferry]

You went through a good list but didn't mention HESS enhancive boosts!

Which I mention, because some more monetarily effective way to get something from +3 to +10 is what it would take for me to get interested in enhancives. I don't anticipate my needs setting the market, though.

[quartz kraken]

But to answer as clear as I can right now, I can't guarantee everything comes back. Consider the wheelbarrow a test in unlimited price matching for a single auction. If nothing sells, it will get evaluated to come back, if a small number sell, we'll probably adjust some pricing on it, and if a large number sell, it will likely be the last time it's offered. It's not that we're trying cause FOMO or scarcity, it's just trying to evolve the game without taking things too far. We did this with SK during the real early days of Duskruin. I sold SK for the insane amount of 300k bloodscrip. Average bloodscrip return was about 127 per run, we didn't think more than a couple would sell at that price. We ended up selling 13, which really caused some turmoil behind the scenes. And dating all the way back to the debut year, we tried the crazy RotNerve staff for 50k bloodscrip.

Tiering out MK is probably more likely because it's still pretty new. I don't think things like 215 will benefit from tiering, just putting that out there.

[stray ferry]

The "without taking things too far" point is really hard for players. We see someone else with one (of whatever) and wonder why it's not too far for them to have it, but would be for me to have it.

Point being that you're balancing and planning around everyone, not me.

[quartz kraken]

And previous leadership would say one being out there was too much. And that's why a lot of things never existed. Like scripted items allowing flares.

[spice lintel]

what are the rules for the mk? warcry,perfect self and slippery mind on the table?

[misty jewel]

curious how much does ROI play into these decision when it comes to launching something new and something coming back. will ROI trump customer satisfaction?

[stray ferry]

If ROI (revenue) was king, they would just sell 506 mks this time

[wary nebula]

Martial stances, specializations, and feats (if any of those are even on the table, which we still don’t know) are the only ones I can actually imagine going for 1m. Edit: and warcries since Yakushi mentioned them!

But this is GS, so I suppose I can never be sure. 🤣

[junior shale]

could you confirm if the MK as listed includes stances/specializations/feats? I don't mean to ping, I just would hate to submit something potentially and waste your time if it isn't something allowed.

[hot wing]

Selling MK feats would be pretty insane

[opaque scaffold]

MK perfect self haha

yeah it would probably be good to get some clear boundaries or identify whether it is too late for that, the original post says "no berserk" which is valid but probably the standout MK options would be all the martial stances and probably ki focus (although the ki focus MK auction suggests that maybe people don't value ki focus as much as THEY SHOULD). I assumed originally feats were not on the table. if feats and specializations are on the table it's a whole different and kind of wacky ballgame.

[pale fern]

My initial impression was anything that you'd learn with combat maneuver points, but I agree some definitive explanation would be good.

[clear walrus]

This. I don’t want to like rain on anyone’s parade but I also don’t want august to be the correction when they go “oh. Maybe we shouldn’t have sold a bunch of martial stances and have to block it now”

[wary nebula]

I don't even think Perfect Self is the craziest of feats, to be honest. CS and TD are cool, but the other perks of having increased stats are pretty easily obtainable in other forms.

Martial Arts Mastery, Combat Mastery, and Light Armor Proficiency are the ones I'd think of as way out there. (And that's assuming they're even on the table, which I doubt. And Weapon Bonding is so implausible to me I didn't even bother listing it.)

[marsh pond]

7.5m worth of ASC exp is quite a lot of value (but yes, also can be achieved via other sources)

[wary nebula]

1. How many people do you know who are cranking up Constitution, Discipline, Intuition, Influence, or [attack stat that's unrelated to the attack form their profession uses] in Ascension for reasons other than having 100s in everything?
2. Still not as much value as Ascension-unobtainable things like +10% EBP, 10% tier up, 20% evade DS, etc! 😄

[hot wing]

if they sell MK Feat Absorb or Feat Dispel they should only work if the user has 0 spell ranks trained

[spice lintel]

they always release the staff version why would it be a requirement now

[marsh pond]

At least one person has max INF enhancives (for better or worse 😆)! And I've seen quite a few people cranking up DIS specifically for MTD

[hot wing]

i don't think that staff should exist! them selling KS would make me mad. i'd get over it. but i hope they don't.

[opaque scaffold]

I think that staff is great hahaha

Should put forty points of crit weighting on it too

[hot wing]

if selling feats is OK then i don't think any spells should be off limits

[quartz kraken]

Okay, it's likely excluding things like feats, martial stances, and anything else that is a passive ability like that. The MK offerings is strictly going to be the older CMAN skills that existed before PSM updates.

[spice lintel]

so warcry definitely a go then

[quartz kraken]

I will check on guild skill crossovers.

[gaunt python]

Not even shield passives?

[stray ferry]

No feats? So much for teaching my wizard to grit

[spice lintel]

checking is giving them a chance to say no to you, lets just go with it

[quartz kraken]

Yeah, no guild-only things. I'll update the certificate in game when we launch it.

Nothing under the old ARMOR or SHIELD.

It's just the old(er) CMAN list.

[spice lintel]

isn't tackle guild-only?

[stray ferry]

I don't think so. I think a warrior could learn it with cman points

[junior shale]

light armor prof is certainly one I'd consider, heck feat absorb is one I'd consider if it works like the one on that runestaff

[wary nebula]

Whoa, no shield skills either, interesting.

[marsh pond]

Most of the guild skills are trainable with CMANs

[junior shale]

ok appreciate the clarification Wyrom, now to figure out stuff I am buying haha

[stray ferry]

Not... What, warcry, tricks, batter? But berserk, tackle, disarm are

Oh, but feint is, and that's under tricks

[marsh pond]

Tricks are, but as the specific subskills. Spin attack too

[wary nebula]

Heh, just checked and my entire personal list of "MKs I'd consider worth 1m" is exclusively made up of disallowed things. 🤣

[spice lintel]

why u always trying to break the rules , please take 1m bs from leafiara

[stray ferry]

I think it's interesting, for how much I love mobility, how little interest it gets from folks in this conversation

[gaunt python]

so Inner Power is ok?

[hot wing]

as an Internal Power enjoyer, that is only worth having at 5 ranks imo. Isn't MK usually 3 ranks?

[gaunt python]

mk would be at rank 5

[hot wing]

how sure about that are we. coulda sworn they were 3 ranks when sold previously

[gaunt python]

I pretty sure I read it correctly from wyrom posting it would be up to rank 5 for mk

[wary nebula]

I only had Combat Mobility at my next tier down, but I'm not actually sure it even merits that. Bards can stunbreak and stand themselves up in the same spell, paladins can stunbreak and then manually stand up, and wizards have 535 and don't stay down long. So that leaves clerics, empaths, rangers, and sorcerers, but two of those have builds that are among the safest in the game.

And then there are the scenarios where you can't be Tackled if you're already on the ground, so sometimes it's better to stay down. Obviously that doesn't apply to something like a monk where you can Spin Kick through RT lock, but that's not what an empath or sorcerer's doing!

[gaunt python]

cm being passive. he just blanket crossout passives.

[stray ferry]

I admit that I'm not the MK audience anyway. But having it myself I find it very comfortable. Like a good hoodie.

[stray ferry]

No, understood. I just mean in the general discourse.

[clear walrus]

The most recent batch were rank 5 and the preview for this said 5. People won the “it’s useless if it’s not max!” Fight finally. Native user might have 10 higher endroll than me. BURN IT ALL DOWN.

[wary nebula]

Heh, meanwhile, my HESS request list had asked for rank 1 MKs and certs to upgrade them... 🤣

[spice lintel]

it becomes really op for pures though since u could just cast something like 316 and get that +100 bonus

[hollow badger]

does anyone remember how much 2000 ensorcell potions sold for?

[frigid dirge]

Silver auction around 100m, but that was day one where folks were saving for day two. BS auction...something like 200k

[spice lintel]

just buy the 500 ones and use a combine certificate at hess

[gaunt python]

and then they just combine the pours. so they return back 2 pours of +500 bonus potions.

[hollow badger]

yakushi for event GM, hire him

[spice lintel]

record breaking sales~greatest dr ever

[frigid dirge]

I didn't know it was possible to create a +2000 pot from 500s

[gaunt python]

99% sure yakushi's logic is flawed on that proposal.

[hollow badger]

it's facts now, if it doesn't work I'm reporting it as bug

but for real, has anyone tried drinking multiple 500s on test to see if they stack?

[gaunt python]

1% chance the combiner wordings wasn't approve by a top legal team and therefor. We should be able to combine it that way

[frigid dirge]

Have not seen the +2000 pots since the silver auction. Maybe they will be in the whalebarrow as a last minute addition, but I thought that in August as well, and no.

[hollow badger]

they should be an OTS item somewhere tbh

[frigid dirge]

There isn't a weapon in the game that can't be serviced with them, they are powerful as heck. But yeah, would be nice.

[north kelp]

I believe they were auctioned. I have the enchant one at the moment.

[stray ferry]

If someone has a 50 CER weapon, you could get there in a hurry, though. I've never seen one, but I assumed there were a couple out there

(I agree with your point)

[hollow badger]

there are 4k+ items

[frigid dirge]

Yeah, that would be 2,500 diff, and you could add another 1000 to that if you tried, so it would take suffusion.

[stray ferry]

You'd already have GUB, 10x, and maybe a script. So we're ensorcelling?

Anyway. If you find one in your locker, I'm happy to hold it for you.

[hollow badger]

yeah one of those items needed ensorcell

[frigid dirge]

I need to know what the heck a 4000 difficulty weapon has

[daring fractal]

Everything

[hollow badger]

the highest weapons should be pushing mid 4k range now, prolly around 4500 if not higher, especially when stacked with 6 slot defused fusion and literally everything else maxed out

[frigid dirge]

Ok, that's insane haha.

[stray ferry]

I always forget enhancives. I don't know the difficulty formula, so I just don't add it

[frigid dirge]

Ok, so we need +4000 pots. Clearly. +2000 pots are so..so...last decade.

[hollow badger]

they really ought to let 500 pots stack, progressive price scaling built in, what's the issue

[frigid dirge]

200k seems to be market price for the 2000 pot, so yeah, 4 500's = 200k

[stray ferry]

Suffusion argues in favor. I can get there someday, we're just negotiating pay for time

[polar cloak]

Int for enchanting maybe. Inf people with Somnis maybe. But yeah a pretty small set.

[frigid dirge]

I used this 2x exp boost to take up my inf for somnis.

[wary nebula]

Heh, I too pump Influence in Ascension for Trading on characters who couldn't tank Intuition because their service uses it (so wizards and sorcerers)... but I know I'm far from the norm. 😄

[reef eagle]

I’ll add another vote for allowing the pots to stack or make big pots more available. DR allows the time for money trade on a lot of things, but not everything. Coming back to learn you did things out of order and the cost is hoping someone will suffuse for 6 months for you isn’t the best feeling.

Then again, maybe that’s more of a plat problem since our resource generation is lower.

[cedar hornet]

I know there was at least one 50 CER claidhmore released. Think it was an ice age one. More interesting to see if there's any 50CER weapons on active accounts vs something that's sitting in a locker of a char who hasn't been activated for 20+ years

[hollow badger]

there are at least two active 50 cer weapons, a spear and a morning star, and then there's also roblar's axe which is a puny 45 CER, then there's an even punier 40 CER stringed handaxe

I'm glad as a pure we don't have weighting on runestaves and don't have to deal with all that crap.

[stray ferry]

I'll put crit services on yours if you want!

[hollow badger]

only if it's 5000 of them

[stray ferry]

Hey, you pay the fare, I'll take you where you wanna go.

[hollow badger]

it's only 5000 weeks right

i forget how many grits warriors get a week, is it half a grit or you get a full grit?

[stray ferry]

Two services a week!

But suffuse is where I getcha

[hollow badger]

apparently you can't write wow with emojis, and yeah suffuse on grit is just funny

[white vault]

I’d put crit on my runestaves if it increased my bolt crits.

[fluid cedar]

My 10x gub, 20 cer crit, t5,s5, flamberge is only 1300 ish difficulty right now. I guess i need flares and scripts

[white canyon]

yeah my maul is 1300ish also, not sure what could make an item more than 2k

[noble mantle]

urglaes and urnon are 999 difficulty!

[frigid dirge]

Yes, we need Leafi to calculate the highest difficulty an item can have.

[wary nebula]

bane: 100
S6 Sanctify: 150
Rage Armor: 200 (I assume; thanks, Ethereal)
T5 Ensorcell: 250
6-slot fusion: 450
+75: 592
95% resistance to all 15 damage types: 713
urglaes: 999
50 TD: 2500
40 of each CER: 3200
Total: 9154

Then whatever the actual fusion orbs in the slots do. I don't know how enhancive difficulty works, though, never mind maxing out the difficulty. 🤣

[lean adder]

I offer 350

[north kelp]

My TD shield will be pushing 2k after i add script/material.

I think TD caps at 30 defensively Leafi (at least from HESS certs). Although I’m sure someone out there has higher

[lusty glade]

Subscript to get it OVER 9000!

[polar cloak]

Didn't they do up to 50TD like 2 DRs ago once only.

[wary nebula]

Hmm, are there even subscripts that work on armor...
...wait, yes. Yes. Rage Armor! Adding that in and assuming it's 200!

[north kelp]

I missed out on all the good stuff!

[lusty glade]

Oh. You also need a regular script. 😂

I was so excited to spot something.

[wary nebula]

Heh, the real thing to question is how in the world someone would get 95% resistance in even one type, never mind all of them, but I'm just bringing up wild theoreticals.

Edit: Fusion is a script!

[lusty glade]

Right! Derp

What’s the enchant difficult of +100? Wondering temporal weapon might eclipse it. 🤔

[wary nebula]

So it basically depends how much difficulty the enhancives in the fusion slots can add to close the gap between 592 (+75) and 1067 (+100)...

Edit: Or wait, no, there's also the gap between 450 for the fusion script itself and whatever difficulty the temporal script has.

[reef eagle]

Soooo, +9000 monocles when?

[lusty glade]

We’re going to need bigger enhancive limits.

[polar cloak]

You heard it here first folks, ship it

[winter compass]

Too bad about MK passives. I was hoping for blockspec.

[crimson elm]

Does this mean we are revisiting brutes extra fingers for 200k suggestion

[winter compass]

Can we get a list of approved MKs?

Right now at 1m, it looks like SK 215 is the best still. 613/712 as backups.

[long dew]

toes need rings first

[gilded island]

This is how I would offer them. Everything starts at rank 1 for a low price, and then scale the upgrades. When they come out as max rank and max cost, it really limits who is willing to buy into the system. But if you can start low, for a more affordable value, and work your way up, you pull in more funds in the long run.

[stable cipher]

I have these bullrush gauntlets that came as rank 3 that I would love to be able to upgrade to rank 5 at some point

[gilded island]

Also, I would make all this happen via automated NPC. NPC applies a tattoo. NPC upgrades rank of tattoo and takes bloodscrip directly.

And do the same for SK.

While updating spells (+SKs) to have a self-cast bonus similar to Monk/1202. So you could get -RT from 506, but Wizards will always reduce farther/more than any other person casting it, even as SK.

[vagrant orchid]

sounds good, do the same with Heroism, bravery, etc. I suppose you could legacy list all of them, and then moving forward create them like 1202.

So that no one feels like they paid for something one way, only to have it shift into something else. 🤷‍♂️

[gilded island]

They specifically put a disclaimer that says spells can/may change and you get what the current version of the spell is.

(I did remove the -all- though as probably not all spells would need adjusted, just the really OP ones.)

[vagrant orchid]

may as well do them all! reduced effect from anything not in your class description. Probably be an exodus, but as long as that 506 takes a hit, it's a win!

[gilded island]

It would just be easier to remove any lore benefit gain from SKs so you only get the base effect (for most spells).

The OP spells need a rewrite (506/515) w/ the monk-only-like benefit.

[vagrant orchid]

it would be easier to just set the floor to 2 seconds

[gilded island]

The floor should be 2s for non-wizards using 506. (and 515 should be -1s for non-wizards).

[vagrant orchid]

right, because I've never seen a wizard swinging over 650, oh wait.

[gilded island]

650 isn't the problem, it's the warriors swinging at 800-1000+ at 1s

[vagrant orchid]

as someone else pointed out earlier, dead is dead, whether it's with a 650 or an 800+

Like I said, if you want to change one spell to be a certain way, you should change them all. Equality and balance.

thankfully neither of us are in charge. You would nerf things people spend thousands of bucks on, and I would just implement changes without discussing it with anyone other than staff. Off topic though. ENjoy your evening

[gilded island]

I think you would have a better understanding if you could play in these scenarios presented. Also, different spells would require different solutions to maintain "equality and balance" because they offer different benefits.

I'm sure it would be easier to offer 506 if the reduction had a 2s floor.

[north kelp]

Just my perspective, but i think limiting SK, MK, and forcing the trade offs between classes helps maintain the really cool uniqueness and trade offs that make the game so fun. There should be a really high barrier of entry for ANY spell or skill not inherent to a specified class. Even if it’s just 401.

There’s been a lot of work plugged in to make the game relatively balanced.

I imagine the revenue potential weighing against that balance is what keeps the GMs up a night.

[gilded island]

I think we're already past that point of no return.

[white vault]

I maxed two weapon fighting. I need a second time sword now

[long dew]

why can't people play the way the way want if they are willing to pay for it. I've never seen someone blow something away with a ton of AS in 1 sec rt and been like wow, thats affecting my experience negatively, more like gee thats awesome i wanna do that to, tell me how

If a Dsir dies in the hinterwilds in 1 second to a +1000 AS, how it affect you? You're literally subject to the same lootcap he is, who cares, most of time hunting is moving room to room looking for a spawn, not the actually killing of the monster

Can we get a raising of the Zelnorn ceiling please to beyond +50 total cap? it's seems to silly to sell the zelnorn accessory to someone who can't buy it because already uses the armor and shield, i'd like the accessory if i could actually benefit from it, TY (from the guy who wants a 1000 AS)

[white vault]

Zelnorn accessory. And then the shield. But fusion the shield. And then use a different metal for the sword to get 11x! Then enchant it to 16x!

[hollow badger]

y'all are doing some quantum gemstone crap

[devout bison]

lol