questions-2

[slim lodge]

It's totally valid informal American English as well. But I would hate to say "It's good" and just leave it at that

[willow socket]

idk if someone said that in American English it would sound really off to me. It only sounds normal if British.

[nova sparrow]

with "There is none" I wouldn't have to ponder abt isn't/hasn't ... right???

[slim lodge]

A more formal definition from online seems to indicate that "be" "have" and "do" are all "primary verbs" which can be implicit. I don't know the nationality of the author though

[willow socket]

sure. The original was fine btw. 'There isn't' sounds slightly more idiomatic to me than 'there is none', but both are definitely fine.

you speak nice english, sounds elegant. Not everything has to be modern slang 😉

[plush pelican]

There aren't any?

[slim lodge]

Isn't/hasn't is just short for Is not/has not

I'm pretty sure none vs not is similar to keine vs nicht

[nova sparrow]

Thanks for the compliment 💐

[plush pelican]

<@&305455824174710787>

[slim lodge]

This is most proper :3

[glad quartz]

In a democracy people are allowed to vote- I translated this as “ In einer Demokratie sind die Leute erlaubt zu wählen“ Its a question from Duolingo.. They used dürfen.. What’s the difference between the two verbs?

[delicate tiger]

Your version doesn't work.
"In einer Demokratie ist es den Leuten erlaubt zu wählen."
"In einer Demokratie sind die Leute berechtigt zu wählen."
"In einer Demokratie dürfen die Leute wählen."

[glad quartz]

berechtigt - to have a right to something right?
The English sentence in the question says „allowed to „

[willow socket]

berechtigt means allowed to in the sense of rights/authorisation. it is a good translation in this sentence.

[rustic dock]

literally, "berechtigt" means "endowed with rights"

berighted XD XD

[night dagger]

könnte man berechtigterweise so sagen

[neon karma]

What does "schon" mean in the sentence "Der Unterricht beginnt schon um acht Uhr."?

[plush pelican]

In English, "already" doesn't really make sense in the translated sentence

"The lesson begins already at 8 o'clock" 🤔

Is it like emphasizing/underlining that the class starts at 8, so you better not be late?

like, "The lesson begins at 8 o'clock on the dot" ?
"The lesson begins promptly at 8 o'clock" ?

[delicate tiger]

that it starts earlier than expected

[plush pelican]

So the listener might have expected it to begin at 9 o'clock, and the speaker is correcting them and saying, "No, it will have already begun at 8 o'clock"?

Is this one of those situations where Germans are taking every tense and just using Präsens instead?

Statt Futur 2, Präsens?
Statt Futur 1, Präsens?
Statt Konjunktiv 2 (oder 1), Indikativ Präsens

"It will have already begun at 8 o'clock" = Der Unterricht wird schon um 8 Uhr begonnen haben.

Futur 2, oder?

[regal wave]

it doesn't? (genuine question) The German meaning is ofc expressing that 8:00h is perceived as early (either because its earlier than expected or because of value judgments like...8 AM is just too early to have gotten up and left house) from the context the statement is uttered. How would you say this in English?

[plush pelican]

well, I'm not 100% sure how to translate it. It's a modal particle, right? Hard to translate 🤔

One option is the more vulgar way: "The lesson begins at 8 o-fucking-clock in the morning"

with "fucking" as an "expletive infixation"

I suppose another option would be something with body language and/or tone of voice. "The lesson begins at 8 o'clock" ( 🙄 )

[regal wave]

as a non-native English speaker I wouldn't find it weird to render it as "already" in some cases, hence my curiousity

[plush pelican]

I've heard Germans use "already" like this before and mentally noted it as being a German thing.

[regal wave]

(and I found the same disjunction between schon and the Japanese mô in my teaching, its a headache because people like when you can give them direct equivalents for words, but eventually you end up with meanings only)

[plush pelican]

What other times do you think it would sound normal?

"The show has already begun."

That just makes sense

"Get a move on already."

makes sense

[regal wave]

schon in the example sentence is a synonym for bereits which Germans would perceive as a literal translation of already

(reits - ready, slap a thing before it, it feels intuitively "the same")

[plush pelican]

"Do your homework.
I did it already."

makes sense

[regal wave]

yeah

Ich habe es schon gemacht!

[plush pelican]

🤔

[regal wave]

and I take the schon above not as particle but as adverb

[plush pelican]

lol, so you disagree with the website about that being an example of usage as a particle?

https://deutsch.yabla.com/lesson-Modal-Particles-schon-ja-halt-278

[plush pelican]

How would you translate those sentences? Would you use "already"?

[regal wave]

I come from this ex.: "Der Unterricht beginnt schon um acht Uhr."

clearly a temporal relation

[plush pelican]

Oh, you're talking about the first sentence, not the ones highlighted that I just linked?

[regal wave]

yeah

its the context I came from D:

didn't see anything else referenced

[plush pelican]

The highlighted sentences. How would you translate them?

[regal wave]

those example sentences are not adverbial, yeah

the first one: "Also, die Leute haben schon, äh, Spaß daran." - "Well, the people do enjoy this...err....kinda."

is a possible rendition

[plush pelican]

the "schon" = "kinda"?

[regal wave]

depends on context and where the speech accent would be placed but without context that would be my intuition

yes

[plush pelican]

or "do"?

[regal wave]

it can relativize the certainty of the statement

I suppose the "do" is not necessary to say "to enjoy" but it seems fitting to me here if I'd want to relativize the certainty? (isn't they enjoy it - they do enjoy it also a means to place emphasis?)

[plush pelican]

"they do enjoy it" seems to reassure the positive, rather than lower certainty

so the "do" and "kinda" are working at cross-purposes, 😅

[regal wave]

yeah, but if you say "they do enjoy it - kinda.../I guess" (etc.) 😄

[plush pelican]

well, it depends on tone of voice

🤔

[regal wave]

yes!

[plush pelican]

"do" could translate to "zwar"

They do enjoy it, but they'd rather go to Disney

[regal wave]

I consider it appropriate if I describe an observation about other people

exactly!

[plush pelican]

Sie genießen es zwar, aber sie würden lieber nach Disneyland gehen.

[regal wave]

schon introduces a certain degree of doubt

the 2nd example with the soccer fan seems the same, where the meaning is "Well, I do indeed like soccer, but its not like I'm totally orienting my life towards following the sport, you know? (its just not that important to me, so...depends what you mean with 'fan', dude?)"

kinda like "Ich bin schon Fan...aber ich geh doch nicht auf jedes Spiel meiner Mannschaft?!"

("doch" is my not-favorite word...)

(next to "denn")

[plush pelican]

why?

your least favorite word?

[regal wave]

because these words are hard to explain abstractly

its easier to just have 30 examples and be "...did you now get it?" haha

[plush pelican]

I mean, schon, denn, and doch are all Modalpartikel 😅

[regal wave]

yeah but I teach A1 students and they want to get a very clear 1:1 rule when to use them, which...you won't get 😄

(1:1 that maps onto their native language)

[plush pelican]

I want a very clear 1:1 rule 😅

[regal wave]

I wish I had one

there just are particles which change their meaning based on the context they are uttered in, that's the problem 🙂

(or at least change a main meaning towards a certain nuance)

[regal wave]

and this won't tell you anything about when you're supposed to use them ^^;

[plush pelican]

I'm never going to master Modalpartikel

🙃

[regal wave]

you only need to master the five or so that are regularly used ;D

[plush pelican]

Das ist doch schon aber schwierig!

[regal wave]

Lately, I've started to think that some of them might primarily function to make a sentence longer which...enables you more variation in emphasis (Satzmelodie) when speaking 🤔 But it's just a hunch.

and that permits a more complex, well...emphasis of the key words in the sentence.

I came from this from teaching imperative form and if you mechanically go for "mal" = makes a statement less important and "doch" = emphasizes it, then what the heck is "Sag doch mal"?

[plush pelican]

double softened?

important, but still chill?

I really don't know

[regal wave]

I'd need to think of actual use cases, tbh

I'm currently at a loss

[plush pelican]

Sag doch mal, ob du Schluss mit mir machst oder nicht.

[regal wave]

I could see this sentence being real if you add "nun" after du 😄

also "jetzt" after doch

(or before sag)

also the speaker would be annoyed AF 😄

or just jetzt after du and skip the nun

they'd already be "over" the relationship and just wanting to go through the motions to be formally split up (presumably so they won't have any kind of bad conscience to start dating the person they already met anyway) 😄

sorry, I'm a hermeneuticist by trade '_'

you need to produce some kind of context to explain these modal particles

and once you have enough of them it just makes sense to say it this way

[neon karma]

what have i started

[nova sparrow]

... aber doch schon... 😉

[uneven leaf]

so argus, there are these things I like to call ✨ vibes✨

xD

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-bart-vibe-groove-dance-gif-15287212887189905850

[nova sparrow]

In German it would be Sprachgefühl 👍 🥳 😎

[uneven leaf]

yes, although in german the joke doesn't quite land as hard imo

[plush pelican]

The vibe for "Sprachgefühl" is a different vibe to "vibes" 😄

[uneven leaf]

especially considering how often I've mentioned vibes to argus in the past

[plush pelican]

"der Vibe" steht im Duden!

https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Vibe

[uneven leaf]

the actual way to say Sprachgefühl in english is "a feeling for the language"

[plush pelican]

@uneven leaf Du liest in der Regel Sachbücher, oder? Liest du jemals Romane, und wenn schon, was war der letzte, den du gelesen hast?

[uneven leaf]

der letzte auf deutsch nehm ich an?

[plush pelican]

ja

[uneven leaf]

ich hab ca. die hälfte von "Powerless" auf Deutsch gelesen und ahhhh... vielleicht lese ich das irgendwann zu Ende

[plush pelican]

also eine BookTok Empfehlung?

[nova sparrow]

for me any vibe that resonates is a valid vibe 😉

[uneven leaf]

lmao i guess

[plush pelican]

Dieser?

[uneven leaf]

ich hab das tatsächlich nicht auf Booktok gefunden sondern einfach bei Thalia hier in der Stadt

[plush pelican]

Ich wusste nicht, dass Thalia echte Gebäuden hatte 😅

[uneven leaf]

einfach zufällig so

hääähhhh

ist doch klar oder?

[plush pelican]

Ich bin nie in Deutschland gewesen

[nova sparrow]

at least in Germany they have^^

[uneven leaf]

ah

[nova sparrow]

@uneven leaf
We should invite him over here!!

[uneven leaf]

yes

obligatory: nett hier, aber

waren Sie schon mal in Baden Württenberg?

[nova sparrow]

I live here!!

[uneven leaf]

same

[nova sparrow]

Remstal near Stuttgart

[uneven leaf]

Karlsruhe

[nova sparrow]

AHH!!!!

I've been there many times

[uneven leaf]

also Argus, hop hop, auf nach BW

[plush pelican]

Remstal ist vor allem ein Tal?

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/jawohl-salute-gif-26507366

[uneven leaf]

*jawoll

natürlich mit dialekt bitte

[nova sparrow]

The valley in which the river Rems travels towards Neckar and Neckar towards Rhine -> northern Sea!!!

[plush pelican]

ein sehr passender Name, also 😅

[nova sparrow]

And there's wine too!!!

So, Rhine-wise @uneven leaf Arelia is a bit more south than the Neckar joining Rhine river, but if you look at a map, Stuttgart (where Remms meets Neckar) is farer in the south...

[nocturne kraken]

how can i join the practice rooms?

[plush pelican]

>faq getting started

nvm, wrong faq

[nocturne kraken]

oh

[dawn oxide]

Read this #getting-started

[plush pelican]

see #getting-started for more

[nocturne kraken]

oh okay thank you

[narrow tulip]

"Du nimmst wahrscheinlich an, neue Worte zu erfinden." can someone explain this phrasing a bit, the second clause seems to be missing a subject or a dass construction

[nova sparrow]

I don't see any 2nd clause around here 🤔 🤯

[narrow tulip]

I meant the second part of the sentence after the comma

[nova sparrow]

Okay, if you use glauben it gets a bit clearer:
Du glaubst wahrscheinlich, neue Worte zu erfinden
Du glaubst, wahrscheinlich, dass Du neue Worte erfindest
both are perfectly fine:
glauben, etwas zu tun
glauben, dass man etwas tut

[narrow tulip]

The second one makes sense to me but the first one feels incomplete to me

[nova sparrow]

It's not and if you have it like that
Du versuchst also, neue Worte zu erfinden
then there's no chance to make a proper sentence with dass

versuchen, etwas zu tun

[narrow tulip]

hmmmm makes a bit more sense now. Thanks for explaining

[plush pelican]

"neue Worte zu erfinden" ist doch ein Infinitivsatz, ein zweiter Satz (clause)

[nova sparrow]

I didn't see the quotes first and thought the two clauses should be more up in the past, my bad

[nova sparrow]

still in wake up mode 😉

[plush pelican]

Ich bin am Einschlafen

Geht gerade nicht so gut

Verläuft? Läuft?

[nova sparrow]

geht beides
(Der Prozess) (ver)läuft wie geplant/ schlechter als erwartet/schlecht

[nova sparrow]

auch
Klappt (it works) is fine here

[narrow tulip]

Hi everyone, "feinabstimmen" trennbar or not?

[gusty silo]

it would be i suppose but i find every getrennt form of this verb borderline ungrammatical and would always rephrase myself to leave it all together

[narrow tulip]

Hmmmm.....couldn't find sources online about this specific verb though. How would you express "to fine tune" without this verb......maybe "noch genauer abstimmen" would suffice

[gusty silo]

yeah, or verfeinern, genauer abstimmen/anpassen, or in some sense simply fein(er) and abstimmen as separate elements. hard to explain what i mean by the latter, but yeah

[narrow tulip]

Yeah I understand what you mean by the later, but is "abstimmen" in general used this frequently in this sense or? @gusty silo

[gusty silo]

aha, i would say anpassen or the like are more common generally

abstimmen itself otherwise normally has a sense of cooperating with someone or arranging two (or more) elements to match each other

anpassen is more generally fitting to contexts where youd speak of fine tuning, id say

another verb in this semantic range is also abpassen, but i could imagine some people finding that to sound a bit weird

[narrow tulip]

Yeah abpassen sounds a bit odd indeed, it is translated as "wait for" or "watch for" on DeepL

@gusty silo btw is that Ukrainian in your bio? and about the other quote is it from a work of fiction like a movie or something? it sounds cool

@gusty silo Anyway thanks for your answer, I must go now.

[gusty silo]

haha, the text in my bio is romanian actually, its from before the switch to the latin alphabet there
the status is from a song by Betterov, whom i quite enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8KloEwNb-A

[peak vale]

I don't know if this is the right plave to ask this but im diving into the german music scene so would anyone here be kind enough to recommend me some of their favourite songs or artists?

[willow socket]

Schnipo Schranke - Pisse
Lebanon Hanover - der Gabel
K.I.Z. - Doitschland schafft sich ab
HGich.T - tutenchamun
Lil Kleine & Ronnie Flex - Stoff & Schnaps
Antilopen Gang - Alkilopen
Laserkraft 3D - Nein Mann
Brutalismus 3000 - DIE LIEBE KOMMT NICHT AUS BERLIN
Björn Peng - Das alte Lied
Falco

some random crap that springs to mind, artists with an example song listed, except Falco because obvious

[peak vale]

Thank you i'll check em out and let you know how I like them

[regal wave]

except Falco because Austrian? 😛

(Also, I like rock music, and frankly, there's basically no German-made rock I want to recommend that actually is sung in German besides some stuff made by Die Ärzte, but there would be German bands singing in English that I could recommend - edit: if you have any interest at all in 90s alternative rock, Blackmail's Bliss, Please is world-tier alt-rock

[plush pelican]

Liegt's daran, dass die Bands, die international erfolgreich werden wollen, sich auf Englisch fokussieren?

[regal wave]

Das kann ich Dir nciht beantworten. War das ihre Intention, oder fanden sie das einfach cooler?

Das ist ein internes Argument. 🙂

[plush pelican]

Das ist so eine Frage, die wir uns in den USA nie stellen müssen: Singe ich lieber in meiner Muttersprache (und grenze dadurch viele mögliche Zuhörer aus) oder auf einer Fremdsprache, die allerdings viel weiter verbreitet ist?

[regal wave]

Ja, und du hast damit total recht.

Aber ich würde eher sagen, dass diese Leute eben diese Idee (Ich singe für "meinen" Markt") versus "ich mache was ich mag" immer präsent hatten (und haben)

Aber die Bands, die aus Deutschland kamen und wirklich berühmt wurden, naja: welche sind das, die nicht Deutsch singen? (denn Deutsch sind Rammstein haha)

[plush pelican]

Ich kenne mich mit der Musikszene nicht aus, vor allem nicht mit der in Deutschland

[regal wave]

Ich auch schon lange nicht mehr.

[plush pelican]

Aber ich war nie wirklich drin 😅

[regal wave]

Aber es geht um Vergangenheit

ich denke hier an Bands wie Scorpions (= Englisch, ja die waren sehr bekannt 😄 )

[regal wave]

If you are open to a few classics, you have to listen to Die Ärzte - "Schrei nach Liebe" (actually in German) - which is a song I'm frankly hard committed to teach in classes, because its very representative of a historical moment and abuses genitive case like mad (makes it bad to introduce early); also, you should listen to - I like rock, so: - Blackmail, "Same Sane" and "Ken I Die" . Blackmail was the one alternative band everyone akways really liked. Also, Beatsteaks had a really big hit, by now a long time ago, that is actually a good song in "I Don't Care As Long as You Sing", they used to be a hardcore/melocore punk band though.

[peak vale]

Thanks for the suggestions 🙏

[narrow tulip]

"Unser neues Produkt hat (in vs bei vs an) der Kundenumfrage hervorragend abgeschnitten." which preposition would fit best here?

[willow socket]

I assumed they meant German language music not the nation. Several of the songs are not by German artists

[dense obsidian]

bei.

[narrow tulip]

100% sure?

[dense obsidian]

yes

[narrow tulip]

Thanks.

[nova sparrow]

What abt in der Umfrage (bc it's part of it)?🤔

[dense obsidian]

That works as well, but bei is better here imo.

[narrow tulip]

So what do you think is the best fit?

[nova sparrow]

I think **bei **and **in **are both valid!

[nova sparrow]

^^

[narrow tulip]

Thanks

[fresh venture]

7

[cloud vortex]

8

[tough jolt]

9

[peak vale]

I'm a few days late because I just saw this, but yes you're right I was looking for music in the language german not music from german artists and thank you for your suggestions btw 🙏, I've added them all to my playlist and will let you know how I like them

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4NuyJMZWYKA3AZvP8bWnun?si=91217172bd414f94 Anyone who wants to suggest music to add to this playlist, feel free to do so 😅 .

[cloud vortex]

whats your music taste?

[peak vale]

Rap/hiphop/rnb/pop is what I usually listen to, but im honestly open to anything

[cloud vortex]

Azet, Jazeek, Cro, Luciano, Sido, milano, dardan, Nimo, amo

The once i know that kinda fit ur music taste

[peak vale]

And what do you personally enjoy and listen to in you free time?

[peak vale]

Ty for these suggestions, ive already been suggested azet by another friend but haven't heard of any of the others

[cloud vortex]

I listen to anything from rap to classic but i don't like metal

[peak vale]

wow lmao same here
Well I like some metal songs but heavy metal or death metal is not for me

[cloud vortex]

There are some good ones for editing i guess but not really my taste

[narrow tulip]

Hi everyone, "Nachvollziehen" is trennbar or not?

[tiny scaffold]

Have you used a dictionary?

[plush pelican]

With other words: you can look this up yourself in any dictionary.

One example:

https://de.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nachvollziehen

[narrow tulip]

I did but it sounded odd to have voll at the beginning of a verb like that so I just wanted to double check

[willow socket]

the book never lies

[rustic dock]

it is maybe worthwhile mentioning that this word is most commonly used in its infinite form

in constructions like „Das kann ich nicht nachvollziehen“ or with zu like in „Das ist schwer nachzuvollziehen“

i can’t really think of many situations in which people use a conjugated form of it

[jade hawk]

Wie sagt man's am häufigsten? Elektrischer Roller/Elektrischer Tretroller/Elektroroller/E-Roller

[rustic dock]

e-roller oder elektroroller klingen am normalsten

[shut belfry]

I need help with the grammer like where do words go in sentences

[plain umbra]

Are you a total beginner? The first word order rule to learn is where to put verbs.

faq word order of verbs

[stoic mauve]

Word Order for Verbs

Word Order - Verbs

The placement of the finite verb (or conjugated verb) is very important to the structure of a German sentence. While most other elements in a sentence can be moved, the position of the finite verb is fixed.

🔸 Main clause
A main clause is an independent clause that makes sense by itself. Here the finite verb is always the second element.

Der Mann gibt der Frau das Buch.

An auxiliary/modal verb (e.g. müssen) replaces the original verb (called the main verb) as the finite verb and results in the main verb being placed at the end of the clause. Additionally, the main verb is returned to its infinitive or past participle form, depending on the tense.

Der Mann muss der Frau das Buch geben.

🔸 Questions & Statements
The finite verb is always the first element.

Siehst du den Ausgang?

Interrogative words (or w-words) are considered to be in the zeroth position.

Worauf wartet ihr?

Auxiliary/modal verbs have the same effect as before:

Kannst du den Ausgang sehen?
Worauf habt ihr gewartet?

🔸 Subordinate clause
A subordinate clause depends on a main clause to make sense. It is often introduced by a conjunction as the first element and the finite verb is usually the last element.

Ich bin nicht zur Arbeit gefahren, weil ich krank war.
Du könntest ihm helfen, statt dich nur zu beschweren!

When a single auxiliary modal verb is introduced, it becomes the finite verb and the main verb is placed before it::

Er ist sich immer noch nicht sicher, ob er ihr alles erzählen soll.

If a double infintive is present, it is placed at the end and the finite verb comes before it.

Das ist das Haus, das ich hätte verkaufen sollen.

[sleek pulsar]

faq join vc

[stoic mauve]

How to join Voice Chat

Please read the [Roles section](#getting-started message) in #getting-started for info on how to join VC and more!

[hushed dawn]

Wie sagt man "misery loves company" auf deutsch ? Ich habe im Internet gelesen dass "Elend liebt Gesellschaft" ist eine selten gebraucht

[gusty silo]

geteiltes Leid ist halbes Leid

shared (but also: divided) suffering is halved suffering

[charred harbor]

People say "misery loves company"? I've honestly never heard that, even as a native speaker

[plush pelican]

I've heard it all the time?

Maybe you surround yourself with cheerful people

[plush pelican]

But that's sort of the opposite meaning, isn't it?

[gusty silo]

what does misery loves company mean then

is the idea one ill quickly follows in the footsteps of another

[plush pelican]

I always took "misery loves company" to mean, "I'm going to drag you down into my misery, so that you will be miserable, too."

[gusty silo]

🤔

you are some pessimist

[charred harbor]

Definitely never heard it in my life lol

[gusty silo]

so long as the intention is that if youre miserable you ought to talk to people, the translation is 'geteiltes Leid ist halbes Leid'

[plush pelican]

Apparently, it also has the other meaning that is similar to the German expression, but I've almost only ever used it for the meaning I know.

[willow socket]

I also assume that it means miserable people enjoy others' misery, to an extent.

[hushed dawn]

It is basically that when someone finds himself in miserable situations and suffers , it may be human nature to ease him/her to see or bring others into some sort of misery

It's an old saying

[bronze laurel]

I don't get why now is not included in the translation here?
I dotn know if this a one-off thing because i sometimes feel like I see sentences that are translated verbatim

[plush pelican]

link the actual video, my dude

[bronze laurel]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdHSEQ9k/

[plush pelican]

So, the girl speaking is not a native German speaker

she does have the occasional error

I'm not saying "jetzt" is an error here, necessarily

but sometimes when they are translating, they're cleaning up the sentences a bit as well

[bronze laurel]

Ahh i see

Thank you!

[brave flint]

Stimmt der Nebensatz:
..., weil der Apfel gestern hat gegessen werden sollen.

Passiv Perfekt im Nebensatz mit Modalverb?

[plush pelican]

Der Apfel wurde gestern nicht gegessen?

weil der Apfel gestern hätte gegessen werden sollen.
(eigentlich wurde der Apfel gestern nicht gegessen)

[brave flint]

Aber das verwendet Konjunktiv II, oder?

[plush pelican]

Wenn der Apfel gestern nicht gegessen wurde, dann muss man Konjunktiv 2 verwenden, soweit ich weiß

Man spricht über etwas Hypothetisches

aber frag mal die Muttersprachler

@gusty silo

[brave flint]

Und was, wenn der Apfel gegessen wurde?

[plush pelican]

Ich glaube, dann ist es doch möglich, "hat...sollen"

aber ich bin mir nicht sicher

[gusty silo]

öh, ich kann mir das mit hat als Unterstreichung der Notwendigkeit vorstellen

[brave flint]

Es gibt heute keine Äpfel mehr, weil bis gestern alle Äpfel haben gegessen werden sollen.

[gusty silo]

aber Konjunktiv ist klar normaler

[plush pelican]

wenn der Apfel in der Tat gestern gegessen wurde, benutzt man Konjunktiv allerdings nicht, oder?

[gusty silo]

genau

[brave flint]

Stimmt also dieser Satz?

[plush pelican]

wäre "weil der Apfel gestern hat gegessen werden sollen." dann richtig? wenn der Apfel gegessen wurde?

[gusty silo]

ich mein, das Ding ist, der Satz ist eh schon hart an der Grenze dessen, was man zusammenschustern kann

[plush pelican]

genau deshalb übt der Typ

[gusty silo]

verstehe

[plush pelican]

Wir Deutschlerner sind immer am Erkunden!

[brave flint]

Wollte nur Passiv Perfekt mit Modalverb trainieren

[gusty silo]

intuitiv möchte ich aus irgendeinem Grund weil der Apfel gestern gegessen werden hat sollen sagen, aber das ist natürlich - normativ und subjektiv(!) - ungrammatikalisch und falsch

[plush pelican]

warte

wo kommst du her?

[gusty silo]

Hessen

[plush pelican]

🤔

Das erinnert mich an eine Frage

[brave flint]

Ist es in deiner Region typisch, dass das Hilfsverb vor dem Modalverb steht?

[gusty silo]

da mag gerade tatsächlich ein Glöckchen in meinen Erinnerungen bimmeln, das mir sagt “die im Süden, sie sind ein sonderbares Volk, ihre Wortstellung ist tatsächlich so“

[plush pelican]

Gelegentlich verwenden einige Deutsche das Hilfsverb mitten in der zweiten Satzklammer

aber es ist relativ selten

[gusty silo]

ich haben keinen Blassen, Alter

ich bin völlig überfragt

[plush pelican]

wir hatten mal eine Karte zur Verwendung dieser Form

moment mal, ich suche

[gusty silo]

ich guck auch mal

[plush pelican]

https://mediawiki.ids-mannheim.de/VarGra/index.php/Wortstellung_im_Verbalkomplex#Finites_Hilfsverb_werden

Das nennt man "Zwischenstellung"

Ist außerhalb von Österreich sehr ungewöhnlich

[gusty silo]

deckt sich mit dem Atlas Alltagssprache https://www.atlas-alltagssprache.de/r10-f12d/

[plush pelican]

und vor allem nicht in Hessen? 🤔

[gusty silo]

das passt mit meiner dumpfen Erinnerung sehr gut zusammen

[plush pelican]

aber das Problem ist, dass viele Deutsche bei 4 Verben in einer Reihe überfragt sind 😄

Es gab mal ein Beispiel aus dem Tagesschau

der Satz war eigentlich grammatikalisch falsch

[gusty silo]

wie gesagt, ich fühle ganz klar, dass das falsch ist. der Gedanke dringt mir nur in den Kopf, wenn ich den Satz zu formulieren versuche. Es ist nicht unwahrscheinlich, dass das tatsächlich einfach daran liegt, dass ich von der Zwischenstellung mal gelesen habe, und halt kein besonders tief verwurzeltes intuitives Gefühl für die (normativ und regional) richtige Wortstellung habe, weil die so selten ist

[plush pelican]

https://blog.leo.org/2025/04/03/viele-verben-am-satzende/

unter dem Strich:

[gusty silo]

oho!

ich finde den Satz, wie er im Original formuliert wurde, tatsächlich völlig normal

und stoße mich kein Stück daran

[plush pelican]

Ich hab ja schon gesagt 😛

[gusty silo]

also, klar, der klingt etwas ungeschickt. aber er klingt für mich grammatikalisch und ungeschickt

ja ja

[plush pelican]

übrigens!

https://blog.leo.org/2025/07/25/infinitivgruppen-als-subjekt-sowohl-mit-als-auch-ohne-zu/

Was für ein Zufall!

Dr. Bopp hat erst vor 3 Tagen über Sannyrions Frage gesprochen

[gusty silo]

oh stabil

sehr schick

[brave flint]

Danke euch! Hat mir sehr geholfen. Ich glaube, ich verstehe jetzt besser

[sturdy pulsar]

Gibt es eine gute Quelle online für die Sütterlinschrift?

[brave flint]

Den Artikel vom Dr Bopp fand ich auch sehr nützlich

[teal cliff]

http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Tipps_und_Tricks.htm weiß nicht ob das ist was du suchst aber

[ashen heart]

r/kurrent finde ich ziemlich cool. Da laden Leute alte Dokumente und Briefe und so hoch. Aber das meiste ist halt Kurrent, nicht Sütterlin.

[sturdy pulsar]

Danke für euer Hilfe :3

[nova sparrow]

Hast Du selbst mal gegoogelt -> Altdeutsche Schrift / Sütterlin?
Gemini (Gemini.google.com) fand viele Beispiele, sogar Fonts für Windows
Die Frage ist, möchtest Du die Schrift lernen zu LESEN oder zu SCHREIBEN?

And Yes, Gemini is an AI, and YOU have to select what you want from the findings.
So, me as a native speaker, I'm comfortable with results from an AI bc I can check, whether they are valid, but you might not have that experience...

[sturdy pulsar]

Ich fand die Quellen die ich brauchte. ich will die Schrift lernen um alte Dokumente zu lesen, da ich eine Anthropologin sein will.

[delicate tiger]

please ask only in one channel at a time

[white sentinel]

Is there a difference between "auf [Akk.] Weise" and "in [Dat.] Weise"?

[regal wave]

do you have a concrete example?

ah, you mean, e.g., "auf diese Weise" vs. "in dieser Weise"?

...that's a hard one

although I'd say that "auf" is tendentially more general, "in" tends to be more specific (a very common usage is "in gewisser Weise")

but in many cases we'd use them interchangeably

[cerulean wolf]

How does the sentence sicher ist sicher translates to better safe than sorry i dont understand 😭

[willow socket]

it doesn't translate to that directly, it means the same thing. both are idiomatic sayings used in the same situation.

sicher ist sicher = safe is safe

[cerulean wolf]

Thanks

[white sentinel]

Is "türlich" a real word short for "natürlich"?

[gusty silo]

indeed

you would not write it very much, but it does exist in speech

[plush pelican]

sounds like "töricht" to me

[frozen steppe]

Schau mal „Fettes Brot - türlich türlich“ an

Da singen die das sogar

[static elk]

warum kann ich nicht in die vc

[plush pelican]

Weil du neu bist

lies mal #getting-started

[static elk]

wo

habs nicht gefunden

habs

danke @plush pelican

[whole portal]

Isn't that by Das Bo

(Sicher Digger)

[frozen steppe]

Ah ja stimmt 😅

[stone moss]

how is beziehungsweise used

cuz "respectively" is not really a good translation

i never see it beign used that way

its more in place of or

but idk when to say oder or beziegungsweise

sorry this is prolly a really common question

[whole portal]

I'd translate it as "or rather"

[stone moss]

omg

tysm

[turbid sage]

This may or may not be easy to answer, but there's a verb people use often and every time I've asked people who've just used it they haven't been able to figure out which word I'm referring to.

It sounds vaguely like kochen, and people use it like '(verb) wir mal' as sort of a way to say 'let's go' or 'shall we begin' I think

If that's too vague I'll keep trying to figure it out

[grim elbow]

gucken wir mal?

[turbid sage]

Yes. Yes it's probably that

Thank you 😂

[tulip skiff]

is ch after consonants palatal or velar?

[stone moss]

it depends

tsch and sch are different sounds

[turbid sage]

According to a comment I found it's [ç] in words like durch, manch, Milch. Which is palatal?

[stone moss]

is there a major difference between im grunde gonommen and im wesentlichen?

[whole portal]

palatal after e, i, ä, ö, ü and consonants; velar after a, o, u

@tulip skiff I forgot if I turned the ping on or off so sorry if this is double

[tulip skiff]

yes

the other allophone would be [x]

[wide ocean]

Hallo Leute

[elfin beacon]

Hallo

[astral talon]

Moin was geht hier heute?

wer will deutsch reden schreiben

lets go....

[jade hawk]

Wie sagt man "flavoured beer"? Bier mit Geschmack? Aromatiertes Bier?

[willow socket]

Biermischgetränk, Radler,...

[jade hawk]

Im Allgemeinen? Würde ich ein zB Somersby Watermelon einen Radler nennen?

[dense obsidian]

Nein. Ein Radler ist Bier mit Limonade.

[jade hawk]

Also etwas Spezifisches. Ist Biermischgetränk ein Dachbegriff?

[dense obsidian]

Joar, ein Biermischgetränk ist ein Bier mit irgendwas gemischt.

[jade hawk]

okay danke

[tall fable]

ich kann keine voice channel beitreten

[tiny scaffold]

faq vc

[stoic mauve]

How to join Voice Chat

Please read the [Roles section](#getting-started message) in #getting-started for info on how to join VC and more!

[tiny scaffold]

*keinen

[tall fable]

???

[tiny scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/rhoa-sassy-sass-nene-leakes-read-gif-5384736

[tall fable]

talk normaly

[tiny scaffold]

#getting-started

[tiny scaffold]

#questions-2 message

[nova sparrow]

*keinem !

[tiny scaffold]

I thought he was going for plural for some reason

[nova sparrow]

which would not be needed here, I think...

[nova sparrow]

Why would you need plural here:
Ich kann keinem VC beitreten: I can't enter a(ny) VC.

[stoic mauve]

@nova sparrow, please read the Roles section in #getting-started for info on how to join VC and more.

[nova sparrow]

oh^^

[glass hawk]

Just curious, would you say that the fact that it isn't needed precludes its use? In English, it can go either way, and personally, I'd find it more idiomatic to opt for the plural: ‘I can't join any voice channels.’

[stoic mauve]

@glass hawk, please read the Roles section in #getting-started for info on how to join VC and more.

[nova sparrow]

Think of it like: if you can't join ANY you can't join the the first, neither the second and so on.
If you put it in plural in German (which you could) it feels off. Like if you wanted to join several VC at the same time. 🤷‍♂️

[glass hawk]

Like if you wanted to join several VC at the same time.

Oh interesting. Aye, that wouldn't have come across to me naturally—I'll need to keep that in mind.

[tiny scaffold]

sometimes people say ''why can't i join any channels'' so ''keinen''

[nova sparrow]

If it's plural it translates to keine Kanäle, which I wrote is also fine (the focus is more on: I tried one, then another and another and so on...)

[tiny scaffold]

ne mit ''beitreten''

[nova sparrow]

Oh, keinen Kanälen... sounds weird to me, like I wrote above^^

[tulip skiff]

are there consistent rules in the spelling to determine whether a vowel is long or short?

[whole portal]

Exceptions do apply with words taken from other languages, but in 99 % of cases if it is followed by only 1 consonant or a h, it's long. Otherwise it's short.

The big exceptions happen in very common 1-syllable words mostly

[tulip skiff]

I would've thought the h made it shorter like in english, good to know

[whole portal]

Das is pronounced like dass, man is pronounced like mann, but you'll just learn these anyway

[tulip skiff]

and ß is used when you want /s/ but also the preceding vowel to be long I assume?

[whole portal]

Correct

Hence the difference between Maße and Masse

Oh and when words are effectively just composite, they're still pronounced like they're separate so the a is long in both Gas and Gasförming

[tulip skiff]

yeah i figured, the main issue with that is knowing when it's a composite lol

on that note, how should i pronounce r after vowels?

when it's word-final it's ɐ

but what about when it's at the end of a syllable

like in Berlin

do I pronounce it fully in that case?

[whole portal]

It's kinda up to you

Different regions pronounce the r differently, me personally I just pronounce it as ɐ, after long vowels I think this is the standard

[tulip skiff]

hold the phone is this the same as in English where they call it "future" but it isn't really?

isn't this just a compound verb

like will do

people just can't accept that not every language has a future tense huh

like the conditional present, isn't that analogous to "would be"?

[whole portal]

Basically yes

Although the Konditional here is more like a Konjunktiv 2 from Wish

(Or I guess Temu is the modern equivalent :p)

[tawny ice]

würde is the Konjunktiv 2 for werde

which is an auxiliary verb

so yes, basically like will -> would

[plush pelican]

@regal wave

https://blog.leo.org/2025/08/11/haette-ich-es-begreifen-koennen-oder-begriffen-haben-koennen/

I submitted the question to Dr. Bopp, a linguist. He said similar things to you.

[tiny scaffold]

N.

[stone moss]

what is the meaning of this sentence exactly?

hunting for a booth or something

and letting go of all you have

[rare jetty]

Etw. hochjagen means to let sth explode

I blow up my space/flat
I let go of everything I have

[stone moss]

danke

und eine andere frage. vor kurzem hab ich deisen satz geschrieben. "danke schön ,aber vielleicht machen wir beide doch fehler, dass wir nicht sehen kann..." ich habe zwei fehler gemacht, offenbar "kann" anstatt "können," und ich glaube schon, "dass" anstatt "die." ist das richtig? Mit einem Nomen soll man immer "der, die, das" anstatt "dass" verwenden? z.B: "Meine Nachbarin hat vor kurzem zwei Hunde gekauft, die sehr laut bellen." anstatt, "Meine Nachbarin hat vor kurzem zwei Hunde gekauft, dass sehr laut bellen."

und wenn ich andere Fehler gemacht habe, kannst du natürlich mich korrigieren.

[willow socket]

Ja genau.

[stone moss]

danke

[willow socket]

Ich finde “doch” überflüssig

[stone moss]

warum?

[regal wave]

Kommt darauf an, wie das Gespräch vorher verlief. Die Nuance ist ein wenig anders.

[willow socket]

yeah exactly. Maybe with further context it could work, but it's somewhat situation specific

[tulip skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/fight-club-gif-232248345825342653

[plucky pulsar]

Hello everyone
I hope you all are having a great day
I'm studying at A1.2 level, and I came across this small conversation in a book
For context, "Lara" had bought her bag recently, and while these 2 were chatting, her bag torn up and fell to the ground

The underlined sentence is what I still can't wrap my head around. "müssen" is used, implies "das" is not the subject, and the "die" in the middle looks strange. Can you guys please show me what "das" refers to, and what the subject of this sentence is ?

[ashen heart]

"Die" (not an article, the same as "sie" but more colloquial, meaning die Leute im Laden) is the subject here. "Das" is the object, in this case the bag (?) or the damage on it. In easier sentence structure: Die müssen das reparieren.

[plucky pulsar]

Thank you very much ❤️

[whole portal]

The 'die' simply a demonstrative pronoun here

In english it'd correspond to 'those'

[uneven totem]

Exactly like ( diejenigen, die es waren)
Hier verschmilz das die mit jenigen aber hat dieses gleiche pronoun nach dem Wort ) ist nicht so ein wichtiger Fakt

[ember iron]

Ich wollte etwas schreiben und bin auf das Wort "fungieren" gestoßen.

Was so viel wie "wirken" heißt oder? Also wenn ich zum Beispiel "Eltern fungieren als ein Vorbild für ihre Kinder" schreibe, würde das dann Sinn ergeben oder wird es in einem anderen Kontext verwendet?

[oblique cedar]

do these words have different uses? i thought they both mean broken but duolingo is telling me it’s wrong

[dawn oxide]

Yea, when something is gebrochen it usually means that it's actually physically broken into pieces/fractured. When something like a shower isn't working you can use kaputt

[oblique cedar]

ahhhh that makes sense ty! duolingo taught me both words without specifying. i’m thinking of changing apps tbh cos the quality of the lessons has dropped since they switched to AI

[delicate tiger]

Even AI is probably better than the almost nothing they had before...

[willow socket]

would recommend

[nova sparrow]

genau so kann man fungieren einsetzen! 👍

[nova sparrow]

@oblique cedar
Wenn eine Dusche in Teile gebrochen ist, sagt man normalerweise: Die Dusche ist zerbrochen.
Gebrochen sagt man z.B. bei Knochen oder einer Achse.

[keen robin]

I also had that kind of problems even before AI.

Honestly Duolingo helped me start but I decided to stop it relatively soon.

[oblique cedar]

danke schön!!

[oblique cedar]

yeah it was never the best, especially with teaching u context and grammar, but there’s just been a noticeable decline in quality especially in the listening lessons

[peak vale]

I would recommend doing that aswell, duolingo sucks.

[kind rose]

Two questions

How would you say sorry casually in german?

Like in english if I mess up and it was an honest mistake I'd say "my bad" but what's the german equivalent?

My study sources say es tut mir lied but one of my friends who took german classes said it's kind of like saying "Sorry I didn't know"

[fervent kernel]

"sorry"

[kind rose]

I uuuuh pressed enter too soon

[fervent kernel]

es tut mir leid is quite formal and it's for apologizing for something not within your control

you can say Entschuldigung, which suits more to excuse me

but generally in public you just say sorry

[kind rose]

oh ok

what's the best way to ask if someone needs help with something?

[fervent kernel]

I personally like "was ist los?"

kinda like asking "what's wrong?"

[kind rose]

[fervent kernel]

there's not really a "best" way

[kind rose]

but what if I work at a store and I'm asking if a customer needs help?

[kind rose]

I assume it's context oriented

[fervent kernel]

"kann ich Ihnen helfen?"

that's for formal

since you gave a context

then again, irl is so different from theory

you could just say "Moin" to a confused customer and they'd immediately ask a question

[dawn oxide]

Kann ich Ihnen behilflich sein? or Kommen Sie zurecht?

idk there's lots of ways to ask that

[kind rose]

that'd make my job so much easier

[fervent kernel]

there's too many ways to put it

just don't use language that's too high I suppose, ||personal experience but some people never learned Hochdeutsch, just Umgangssprache||

[dawn oxide]

I wouldnt go that route lol better to ask your supervisor

[kind rose]

what would generally be the best universally?

[fervent kernel]

true

[dawn oxide]

dont think it exists

theyre all kinda fine

[fervent kernel]

perhaps there is if where you are working has a catchphrase

[dawn oxide]

yea depends a bit on where you work

[kind rose]

are hardware stores more casual?

[fervent kernel]

now that I'm not sure, safest to ask your employer

[kind rose]

I'll have to wing it

[fervent kernel]

shocking, that's what people have been doing this whole time

[dawn oxide]

I mean we gave you some options xd

[kind rose]

true true thank you

[hexed gust]

what's the difference between erfahren and erleben?

tried looking it up on google but like... i still dont understand

[flat wind]

"erfahren" is more about knowing, while "erleben" is more about experiencing. "Erleben" is used for events you are witnessing, e.g. "Oma hat den Krieg selbst erlebt" or "Ich habe Rhianna live im Stadion erlebt". "Erfahren" on the other hand is used to express a transfer of knowledge: "Ich habe erfahren, dass es ihm gut geht" or "Man erfährt erst im Kleingedruckten, wie man kündigt".

[nova sparrow]

But tut mir leid does not mean I didn't know that it's just like sorry / sorry abt that.

[hexed gust]

ohh i see, thanks!

[shrewd edge]

uh i have a question about finding a learning buddy or someone interested in helping via dm, i joined recently idk if this is the right channel for it,but there it is ig.
i am a complete beginner, and i really want to commit to learning :)

[plain umbra]

#1065443550004781067

[kind rose]

ya I thought in certain instances it might be a bit strange to say so I was curious what the best way to go about it was

[nova sparrow]

Let's look at several situations:
In public, you block the way or collide (slightly) with sb -> a short
Sorry / pardon / Verzeihung / Entschuldigung
If you feel like telling it was unintentional you can add
(Das) war keine Absicht / aus Versehen || das habe ich nicht gewollt / gesehen / gewusst.

In a situation where you've dealt some discomfort
Das habe ich wirklich nicht gewollt / beabsichtigt / geahnt (I didn't imagine THAT)

hth @kind rose

[spiral rampart]

I can't XD
My brain is überfordert rn

[nova sparrow]

How so? I gave 3 situations and several POSSIBLE answers how you can deal with them 🤷‍♂️

[spiral rampart]

The problem is with me not u
Sorry if u misunderstood

[fervent kernel]

Does dammit mean damn it?

[latent lake]

i think it means "with that"

[nova sparrow]

@latent lake
Damit / damit means with that
Dammit is no German word!

[plush pelican]

@nova sparrow Eine Frage an dich: "lehren"

benutzt du da zwei Akkusativobjekte, oder ein Akkusativ, ein Dativ?

Die Lehrerin lehrt den Schüler die deutsche Sprache. / Die Lehrerin lehrt dem Schüler die deutsche Sprache..

zusätzliche Frage: Ist das im Passiv anders?

Der Schüler wurde die deutsche Sprache gelehrt. / Dem Schüler wurde die deutsche Sprache gelehrt.

Relevant: https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/sprachratgeber/Das-Verb-„lehren“

[nova sparrow]

Oh, hilf mir bitte, wo hast Du das gesehen?

[plush pelican]

im Duden

habe ich doch verlinkt

[nova sparrow]

Ich dachte, das bezog sich auf einen meiner Posts.. 🤷‍♂️

[plush pelican]

nein

Ich will nur wissen, was dein Sprachgefühl dazu sagt

[nova sparrow]

Okay, gib mir 'nen Moment...

Ich würde immer für ... dem Schüler .. plädieren

In beiden Fällen!

[plush pelican]

Auch wenn du etwas Formelles schreibst?

Oder nur umgangssprachlich?

[nova sparrow]

Ja, dann ist es total eindeutig mMn

[plush pelican]

eindeutig Dativ?

[nova sparrow]

That's what I would pick first, without thinking too much abt it!

[plush pelican]

standardsprachlich heißt es, dass es eines der seltenen Verben mit doppeltem Akkusativ ist, also:

Die Lehrerin lehrt den Schüler die deutsche Sprache.

mit dem Dativ soll umgangssprachlich sein

aber im Duden steht, dass im Passiv der Dativ trotzdem benutzt wird

Es ist nicht so ganz einfach, bei lehren immer den richtigen Fall zu erwischen. Was feststeht: Die Sache, die gelehrt wird, steht immer im Akkusativ: Die Lehrerin lehrte die Kinder den Dreisatz. Handelt es sich dabei um ein Verb, wird es in der Regel als Infinitiv ohne zu angeschlossen: Die Lehrerin lehrte die Kinder lesen. Tritt zu dem Verb noch eine Ergänzung, kann das zu aber wieder dabeistehen: Die Lehrerin lehrte die Kinder flüssig [zu] lesen. Es lässt sich beobachten, dass zu immer häufiger auftritt, je länger diese Ergänzung ist: Die Lehrerin lehrte die Kinder flüssig, deutlich und mit der richtigen Betonung zu lesen. Nebenbei: Das Komma, um den mit zu angeschlossenen Infinitiv abzutrennen, ist fakultativ.

Sie haben sicher schon bemerkt, dass die Belehrten in den Beispielsätzen im Akkusativ stehen. Heutzutage ist das auch die Norm. Vor allem im 18. Jahrhundert war jedoch auch der Dativ gebräuchlich, also: Die Lehrerin lehrte den Kindern die Feinheiten der deutschen Sprache. Teilweise wird der Dativ auch heute noch benutzt. Interessanterweise ist er sogar der Fall der Wahl, wenn das Verb im Passiv verwendet wird: Ihnen wurden die Feinheiten der deutschen Sprache gelehrt. Im Passiv ist logischerweise, wenn man vom Akkusativ im Aktivsatz ausgeht, auch der Nominativ korrekt: Er wurde lesen gelehrt. Eine letzte Anmerkung haben wir noch für Sie. In manchen Fällen wird nicht erwähnt, was denn überhaupt gelehrt wird, sondern es wird nur die Person genannt. Dann steht diese zwingend im Akkusativ: Die Lehrerin hatte viele Kinder gelehrt.

[nova sparrow]

Äääähm, I'm not THAT old (referring to the Duden mentioning 18xx!) 😉

[plush pelican]

Es gibt auch einen Zwiebelfisch-Artikel dazu:

https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/zwiebelfisch/zwiebelfisch-abc-lehren-mit-dativ-oder-akkusativ-a-309402.html

An dem Slogan dieses Filmplakats haben zahlreiche "Zwiebelfisch"-Leser Anstoß genommen. Er lautet: "In einer Welt, die ihnen vorschrieb, wie man lebt, lehrte sie ihnen, wie man denkt." Die Empörung war nicht ganz unberechtigt: In der Standardsprache wird heute nach lehren der doppelte Akkusativ gebraucht:

Sie lehrt ihn das Klavierspiel.
Er lehrt sie das Tangotanzen.
In einer Welt, die ihnen vorschrieb, wie man lebt, lehrte sie sie, wie man denkt.

Das war jedoch nicht immer so. Im 17. und 18. Jahrhundert war es üblich, die Person in den Dativ zu setzen, da lehrte der Meister dem Gesellen das Handwerk, und der Erzieher lehrte dem Flegel Mores. Im 19. Jahrhundert lehrte dann der Akkusativ den Dativ das Fürchten, indem er ihn von seinem Platz verdrängte. Dennoch tritt der Dativ gelegentlich noch auf, vor allem im Passiv: Ihm wurde das Fürchten gelehrt.

Den Werbetextern des "Mona Lisa"-Plakats gefiel ein doppeltes "sie" wohl nicht, daher entschieden sie sich für den Dativ. Das ist zwar unüblich, aber nicht unerlaubt. Solange beim Anblick von Julia Roberts nur die Grammatik aussetzt, sollte man als Kritiker nachsichtig sein.

[nova sparrow]

Wow, let me think abt that a moment!

I'd go for Dativ + Akkussativ, even if I'm not THAT old (18hundred something) but only 1964!

[plush pelican]

Wie gesagt, heutzutage soll das als umgangssprachlich gelten

zumindest im Aktiv

[nova sparrow]

Sie lehrte sie ... just sounds weird to me 🤷‍♂️

🤯

[plush pelican]

Das ergibt Sinn, denn der doppelte Akkusativ ist ja selten

Was sagt dann dein Sprachgefühl über andere Verben mit doppeltem Akkusativ?

https://easy-deutsch.de/liste-verben-mit-doppeltem-akkusativ/

abfragen
angehen
kosten
nennen

[nova sparrow]

Now I'm relieved, I thought I'm just some relic from the past for a moment!

[plush pelican]

„Mein Vater fragt mich die Vokabeln ab.“
„Das geht dich einen Dreck an.“
„Der Apfel kostet mich einen Euro.“
„Er nennt mich einen Idioten.“

[nova sparrow]

^^ Those are fine imho^^

[plush pelican]

🤔

aber "lehren" mit doppeltem Akkusativ geht nicht?

[nova sparrow]

sie lehrte ihnen 🤔

I'd avoid it at all:
Sie brachte ihnen XY bei! 😉

Sie lehrte sie does the same with me
-> AVOID IT!!

Bc imho it's not clear anymore on both cases1

[plush pelican]

unrelated: welches Pronomen würdest du benutzen, um auf "Walmart" hinzuweisen?

Walmart kämpft heutzutage dagegen, indem (er/sie/es) quasi-online shopping anbietet.

Wäre es anders für andere Marken?

der Aldi
das Trader Joes

??

[nova sparrow]

even there AVOID it and use man (passive) The others sound just weird 🤷‍♂️

[plush pelican]

You don't talk about what actions a company is making?

without using the full name of the company?

[nova sparrow]

Sie seems to be the most fitting after passive

[plush pelican]

How would you use "man" there? It's not just anyone who is doing it, it's Walmart

[plush pelican]

sie = she
or
sie = they
?

[nova sparrow]

they

[plush pelican]

So würde ich es auf Englisch sagen, aber ich habe bemerkt, dass man im Deutschen "sie = they" nicht so oft benutzt, wenn man von einer Gruppe spricht.

oder von einem Unternehmen?

[nova sparrow]

Not sure abt EVERYONE but to me it sounds fine.

[plush pelican]

Also:

Walmart kämpft heutzutage dagegen, indem sie quasi-online shopping anbieten.

[nova sparrow]

Is the most fitting except the passive form !

[plush pelican]

Ich checke nicht, wie man das im Passiv schreiben sollte

Walmart kämpft heutzutage dagegen, indem Quasi-Online Shopping angeboten wird.

?

Can you use passive voice after "indem"?

[nova sparrow]

indem man quasi online shopping anbietet... (not really passive, if I think abt it 🙇‍♂️ )

[plush pelican]

but...it's not anyone offering quasi online shopping, it's specifically walmart

[nova sparrow]

Yeah, but if you mentioned Walmart before, it's clear, THEY do it!

[plush pelican]

Does that always work like that?

Peter nimmt ab, indem man keine Süßigkeiten isst.

?

[nova sparrow]

But let me see:
Indem quasi online-shopping angeboten wird (now we're passive)

[nova sparrow]

Nope: indem er keine...

[plush pelican]

Wieso geht das dann für "Walmart"?

Die Polizei kämpft dagegen, indem man Tätern einen Schlag verpasst 💀

Die FDP kämpft dagegen, indem man Steuersenkungen für die Reichen verabschiedet.

[nova sparrow]

well:
in one example it's one specific person
in the other example it's an entity (?)
Die Polizei/FDP -> sie
But Walmart -> ??? (der/die/das) 🤯 -> rather man---

[plush pelican]

"Walmart" isn't a specific person?

Walmart is an entity, just like die Polizei or die FDP

it's a Supermarktunternehmen

"Einzelhandelskonzern", laut Wikipedia

[nova sparrow]

I know that, but die Polizei or die FDP are much more easier to handle here 😉

[dawn oxide]

ich hätte hier einfach es benutzt

[plush pelican]

Was hältst du von

"Walmart kämpft heutzutage dagegen, indem man quasi online shopping anbietet"

?

[dawn oxide]

weiß nicht genau, um ehrlich zu sein

I feel like I've heard it before but at the same time it also sounds kinda off to me lol Idk if there's a rule for this somewhere

[plush verge]

Matter of context
Walmart as a company: sie
Walmart as a single building/store: es

[plush pelican]

sie = they?

[plush verge]

yep

[timber yacht]

Um so etwas zu umgehen, wird häufig von "dem Konzern Walmart, der" oder "der Supermarktkette Walmart, die" gesprochen.

Die Supermarktkette Walmart kämpft heutzutage dagegen, indem sie quasi online shopping anbietet.

[jade hawk]

Was soll "Zum Geleit" heißen? Kann man es als "to preface" benutzen?
"I wanted to preface this by saying..." -> "Zum Geleit wollte ich sagen, dass..." zum Beispiel

[nova sparrow]

Das geht! 👍
https://www.dwds.de/wb/zum Geleit

[regal wave]

Ja, aber schreib das bitte nicht mehr. Das ist sehr altmodisch.

[nova sparrow]

Ich frage mich, wieso dann das DWDS mehrere Zitate zwischen 2017 und 2020 hat? 🤔
@jade hawk

[whole portal]

Someone clicked the thesaurus button or is just old lol

It's definitely not in active use for 99.9 % of people

[jade hawk]

Danke euch schade dass es effektiv veraltet ist es schien nützlich zu sein

[violet viper]

Hallo, do you happen to know why determinants such as ein, mein, dein and else don't get an -s when their neutral but dieses and welches and some other do ?

[fervent kernel]

because it goes to their adjective, if that's what you're asking (?)
ein rotes Buch

[violet viper]

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. My question was: why does the declination for ein in nominativ goes Ein, EinE, Ein but for diese (and some other) it goes DieseR, DiesE, DieseS ? Is there a rule about it ?

[fervent kernel]

yes that's just the rules of declination

there's a whole chart about it

search up bestimmter und unbestimmter Artikel

[violet viper]

Thank you

[stable widget]

Hallo

why is this incorrect

[lament plinth]

so nicht also

[ebon basin]

Also has a different meaning. For example in a sentence "So, what are you doing tomorrow?“.
You would say "Also, was machst du morgen?“
It is confusing because in English the word so has different meanings while German uses different words

[stable widget]

Danke

[viral ibex]

misstyped äußerst right?

[whole portal]

not necessarily mistyped

They likely just don't have the ẞ for that font

[delicate tiger]

(the missing "s" at the end)

[whole portal]

Oh, I didn't see that

[violet viper]

when shoould we use "statt" and not "Anstatt".

[ember lotus]

They’re synonyms

[violet viper]

oh thank you

[sweet hare]

I've got a quick question about
Der Die and Das I know its masculine feminine and neutral but why are certain location/places/animals use Der or Die and if there are any tips to know when I should use each when not talking about people Thanks.

[whole portal]

Maskulinum, Femininum, Neutrum are not genders, nor do they really have anything to do with it except very limited correlation. This is one of the worst named grammar concepts. Think of them as Noun class 1/2/3. As for how to know, there's some patterns you can follow (run the command >explain gender patterns), but in general, learn every word with its corresponding nominative article, so don't learn "dog = Hund" but "dog = der Hund".

[sweet hare]

That makes more sense thanks for your help

[dreamy flower]

do we have like dict for german to english in this channel

[whole portal]

faq dictionary

[stoic mauve]

What does this word mean?

The best way to understand the meaning of a word is to use a dictionary. Monolingual dictionaries such as dwds.de, de.wiktionary.org and duden.de will often provide the most accurate definitions and examples for a word. If you are not yet comfortable with using a monolingual dictionary, bilingual dictionaries are also an option (dict.cc, dict.leo.org, pons.com).

The key here is to empower yourself to find the answer on your own. Using the many examples provided in dictionaries like DWDS, Wiki and Duden can help you confidently understand the word, and how to use it. If you still have trouble; don't worry! You can use #questions, #questions-2 or the #942470380692590632 to ask someone for further clarification.

[dreamy flower]

thnks

[mint hazel]

Wie viel Uhr pro Woche ist gut um Deutsch zu lernen?

[glass hawk]

Je mehr, desto besser, natürlich. Du kommst aber zwangsläufig voran, wenn du einfach zumindest ein bisschen pro Tag lernst, oder zumindest gilt das für Anfänger. Es hängt auch davon ab, wie hoch dein Niveau schon ist, weil ein höheres Niveau mehr Stunden braucht, um sich zu verbessern.

[mint hazel]

Danke ich habe B1 Niveau und ich lerne jetzt jeden tag 2 stunden

[jade hawk]

Wirkt es auf Andere als ungewöhnlich wenn ich "es sei denn" mit "dass" verwende? Soweit ich weiß, ist es grammatikalisch richtig, aber ich wurde früher heute von einem Muttersprachler korrigiert als ich diese Konstruktion mit dass benutzt habe

[teal cliff]

Gib mir Mal ein Beispiel

[jade hawk]

Irgendein Satz mit es sei denn
"Es sei denn, dass es das tatsächlich gibt"
"Es sei denn, dass wir was sportliches machen"
"Es sei denn, dass du so einen sehr großen Suit hast"

#general message hier ist mein satz der korrigiert wurde

[jade hawk]

wären diese seltsam mit "dass"?

[nova sparrow]

Also, ich würde sie auch **ohne **das **dass **formulieren, aber ich bin mir nicht sicher, ab die Formulierung **mit ****dass **grammatikalisch falsch wäre, verstehbar ist sie auf jeden Fall.🤔

[meager shard]

na Hallo ! hat jemand hier Lust auf nettes Gespräch

auf Deutsch will ich auspacken

[jade hawk]

Laut dieser Webseite ist es okay https://deutschegrammatik20.de/komplexer-satz/ubersicht-satzverbindung/satzverbindung-es-sei-denn
DWDS hat diese zwei Variante von einem Beispiel

[tulip skiff]

wouldn't sz be a better choice?

[whole portal]

No no!

ss is the one and only correct choice if you don't have the ß

[tulip skiff]

then they gotta rename the thing

false advertising

[whole portal]

The name has historical reasons

[delicate tiger]

(dann frag mal die Architekten, die immer noch gerne "MASZSTAB/MASZE..." benutzen) 😉

[nova sparrow]

the sz name comes from Sütterlinschrift where the ß looked like a s+z
today you wouldn't call it sz but rather scharfes s

[tulip skiff]

ß doesn't need cursive to look like s+z

ſ + ʒ

old fashioned s and z but s and z nonetheless

I can get behind "sharp s" though

seems like a more fitting name nowadays

[rustic dock]

not only old-fashioned, but also distinct from s, which coexisted with ſ

s was written at the end of a syllable, ſ in all other positions

this made it possible to discern between a couple of words that would otherwise be ambiguous. it never made that big of a difference (because context gives it away mostly), but it did make it clear immediately what was meant

for example: die Wachſtube vs. die Wachstube

this is a Wachſtube (Wach-Stube)

this is a Wachstube (Wachs-Tube)

another side effect of that was that words like Radieschen would never catch you off-guard and have you sit and think before you realize it's Radies-chen, because had it been pronounced with an sch, it would have been spelt Radieſchen

but! we decided this was unnecessary and now it's s's time to shine, with both its voluptuous bellies in all their glory, in all positions

except for ß, where it mainly resides nowadays...

[tulip skiff]

can't believe people would rather invent a letter than just use spaces

[nova sparrow]

even if **cursive **is quite older than Sütterlin iirc, but point taken.

[tulip skiff]

right i mixed them up earlier

[rustic dock]

spaces are the worst solution to this and don't make sense in any germanic language (however, english does that...), the correct way would be a hyphen

after all, compound nouns are analyzed as single nouns, so why would a word have a space in the middle?

[tulip skiff]

we should just apply romance typing conventions to all Germanic languages it's gone great so far

[rustic dock]

romance languages don't really have compound nouns like that though, do they?

i was under the impression they either use adjectives or prepositions

[tulip skiff]

I can attest that Italian does at least, but they are very easy to discern as words almost always end in vowels so there are no consonant cluster shenanigans at the joints of compound words

[tulip skiff]

ok i ser what you mean, yeah noun-noun compound are very rare

it's mostly verb-nouns and such

[tulip skiff]

nevermind i take it back, the medical field is full of those

[rustic dock]

actually, not quite. english sometimes does that, unless it doesn't. someone once explained to me that "established concepts" are written together, like football, lengthwave, playground, doorway, or caretaker, but not train station, ice cream, bath tub, fish tank, and bus stop (which i guess aren't established concepts...?)

[tulip skiff]

I think that's just people trying to rationalize an inconsistent and irrational convention

i've seen hyphens, spaces and nothing used interchangeably, although in different numbers

[rustic dock]

oh yeah like in son-in-law (which features a preposition though), warm-up, and dry-cleaning

i gave up trying to understand english rules lmao

[tulip skiff]

also as for compound nouns, I think the biggest difference between english and german, is that german has no issue binding together a ton of nouns (in the written form at least) while english stops at 2 in the majority of cases

[rustic dock]

that's true

i heard someone say "suit jacket pocket" recently

[tulip skiff]

i'd use the genitive there personally, but i'm not a native so take that as you will lol

[rustic dock]

but that for example would be Anzugjackentasche in german without issue

[tulip skiff]

as you said hyphens would be a lot better, I bet german dyslexics have quite a hard time lol

[rustic dock]

but then is it "the pocket of my suit jacket", "of my suit's jacket", "of the jacket of my suit", or what

[tulip skiff]

the pocket of the jacket of the suit

just sprinkle a genitive in there it'll be fine

lol

[rustic dock]

not necessarily, since your brain processes the general shape of a word before it procseses the individual letters, much like i just wrote "procseses" instead of "processes" but that wasn't big of an issue for you to read over

but generally the rule in german is that in professional contexts you use dashes after 3 compounds

[tulip skiff]

ig the romance mind cannot comprehend Arbeiterunfallversicherungsgesetz

[rustic dock]

you will be able to

[tulip skiff]

that sound vaguely threatening

[glass hawk]

Established concepts isn't really the answer, but I can see what they're getting at. Persistently used compound nouns in English have a tendency to move from separated by spaces, to hyphenated, to altogether in one word over the course of time (more decades than anything shorter for the most part). This consistently happens again and again, just on the fly as people do it because it feels more and more right, and there is pushback in the meantime as "that's not a word!", but that's simply how it goes. It's not a rule, but it is a tendency. And there are some types of words that resist this more than others (I believe that depends on which letters would run into each other but I can't remember anymore, been years since I looked into it)

ahem, and I also like to force one-word compound forms much sooner than most people are ready for them >:)

[rustic dock]

because come time you will have seen the words Arbeiter, Unfall, Versicherung, and Gesetz often enough for you to see those immediately

this is mostly not a problem for natives at all

similarly to how knowing a couple thousand individual characters isn't a problem to the chinese apparently, who boast a literacy rate of over 90% aswell, just like most of the developed world

[tulip skiff]

in favor of my case, I do remember hearing that using spaces between words and in general spacing out the letters more is easier on the eyes and leads to faster reading times, but i'll have to go look where I heard that cause i'm not sure it's true

[rustic dock]

could be

[tulip skiff]

I mean there are smokers who live to 90 as well, it's just a matter of asking whether they did so because of the smoke or in spite of it

again though, i'm just saying shit, i'd have to look up a source

[nova sparrow]

just to show: both s (normal s and Endungs-s) and the sz plus the z

[rustic dock]

well if it's about fast reading, then you could argue chinese text is a lot more condensed and more up to speed with your brain's processing speed, so in that sense it is objectively more efficient than the latin alphabet :^)

[nova sparrow]

even ift the are quite ugly 😮

[tulip skiff]

how's b in German cursive / the other cursive

the one i was taught in school is terrible

[rustic dock]

both like latin cursive

[tulip skiff]

so terrible

shame

well i'm out of grade school now so it's not like i'll have to write in cursive anyways

[rustic dock]

latin on top, kurrent on the bottom

[glass hawk]

What do you write instead? Just, what, print? Isn't cursive just your normal everyday writing?

[rustic dock]

that sounds more reasonable yeah

i understand that double consonants have a tendency to either make the preceding vowel shorter or change another sound, or imply something else

so a busstop could be interpreted as a buss top, what ever a buss might be

doesn't have to be anything, but it still makes you think for a couple seconds when you could have written bus stop or bus-stop to make it clear and spare you those seconds

[tulip skiff]

cursive in general is supposed to be a single-stroke style of writing that you develop personally over time for efficiency, at least in my mind, however the canonical cursive we are taught in school is standardized and is REQUIRED to use in any official documents, that is to say tests that will be graded

i just write in uppercase when i'm not forced otherwise

although it's all kinda melted together and squiggly

[rustic dock]

so i see why that happens, still an odd inconsistency in a language in which its prescriptivists, for many, many years, have made it a point to push idiotic rules (like the one about ending a sentence in a preposition being bad for no reason at all)

[tulip skiff]

latin, the reason is usually latin

which ties to my earlier comment about forcing romance conventions onto Germanic languages lol

[rustic dock]

i have heard that argument before but it's easily disspelt by remembering that english is not latin, at least in my opinion

[tulip skiff]

yes, but it was considered the "perfect" language by scholars

for a long time

[glass hawk]

Aye, as someone who tends to join up my compound nouns more readily than most speakers, I still would feel wrong about doing it with a word like bus stop.

[tulip skiff]

so it was prescribed that English follow in its footsteps

which is obviously nuts

[rustic dock]

i mean, especially in english with its phrasal verbs, trying to avoid prepositions at the end of sentences seems a little silly

[tulip skiff]

it seems so cause it is, but that didn't stop them from spelling plumber with a b either

[rustic dock]

i think that one is etymological if i'm not mistaken

[glass hawk]

Oh interesting. What country is that? We had no such focus on writing. We were taught cursive, and it's most people's normal writing, but it's not particularly standardised (mine certainly doesn't resemble a standard!), and also never required for official use. (We also don't use the term cursive here, so I could be misunderstanding the specifics of it a little)

[tulip skiff]

it is if you go far enough, but the thing is the b was already gone in old french, it was just reinstated because it looked latin-ish and cool

made people look educated

[rustic dock]

lmao

[tulip skiff]

it's also why we have an s in island even though it never had an s to begin with, it doesn't come from latin isla (although that gives english "isle" also spelled with an s ), but from Proto-Germanic eigland or something similar

I swear the deeper you look into this stuff the more mad you get lmao

[tulip skiff]

italy

[rustic dock]

it depends on the time they decided to do this, because there used to be a time where we kind of were hardly able to track back our own words because of poor documentation (something the french seem to have feared so much that the language now features certain letters solely to remind you of the fact there used to be a different letter there: the ^ above i in maître implies there used to be an s there, old french maistre, latin magister)

[glass hawk]

Haha, brings me joy personally. The words wear history and its oddities on their sleeves. But I can understand it being frustrating to others too 😛

[tulip skiff]

the early modern period tmk

[nova sparrow]

afaik **insula **not isla

[tulip skiff]

you're probably right, can't be bothered to check lol

but my point stands

[rustic dock]

maybe for consistency sake, because island and isle are related concepts so why would one of them be spelled goofy but not the other

although consistency is an odd word to choose here :D

[tulip skiff]

fwiw the little hat is useful to me as an Italian speaker reading french

[rustic dock]

oh yeah i am sure it is

[tulip skiff]

but yeah it makes little sense to a native speaker of the language

[rustic dock]

it helps me aswell to understand some written french text easier :D

[tulip skiff]

analogy would be the better term imo

[delicate tiger]

well, ae -> a with e on top -> ä

[rustic dock]

and i mean, all this must seem very bizarre to an italian, after all that language is spelt sensibly

[rustic dock]

yeah

[tulip skiff]

i've been learning English since 1st grade so not so much by now, but if i was never introduced to it, it probably would

[rustic dock]

(the e was a nice touch, similar to how å is a nice touch in scandinavian languages, because those used to be As, but now are Os, except when that doesn't apply and it's just an O and always has been...)

[tulip skiff]

and for the record I think italian could do with a little reform as well but it's super easy and intuitive already

[rustic dock]

or ó in polish being pronounced like u because the o shifted to u (same as with ů in czech)

[rustic dock]

standard italian is simple and easy

but who the hell speaks standard italian

it's literally a constructed language

[tulip skiff]

tbh most people I know speak something that is very very close to it that it makes little sense to distinguish them

the education system and mass media have done a great job in actually getting people to speak more like the canonical "standard"

[tulip skiff]

people my age I should specify

[rustic dock]

so curse the media...

[tulip skiff]

I mean letters are just symbols, you can use them for whatever you want, I only take issue with that when there isn't a clear and consistent correspondence between the two

[rustic dock]

oh no i don't have a problem with those letters, i like that they're there

[tulip skiff]

i personally like having a standardized language, but it's a shame that the government has done a poor job so far of having that while preserving regional languages as well

[rustic dock]

i was just saying that there was a time when such things were added to languages to tell possible future readers what the hell is going on here

[tulip skiff]

not really teaching the importance of those to people at least

[rustic dock]

this is a common theme in modern times in nearly every country

it's just what's bound to happen

same as in germany

i think it's kind of funny how a standardized media language has made it even harder for people to understand dialects because now they are no longer really forced to even try to understand them

[tulip skiff]

yeah mine was more a comment on the fact that language changes and spelling gets left behind, that's just bound to happen, however you can choose if that happens gracefully or... well look at english

[rustic dock]

in english they just gave up and decide based on vibes

[tulip skiff]

they just needed a little more time in the oven before the printing press arrived

in the uvven i shood say

[rustic dock]

:DDD

you would love older swedish spellings

where Sfven and Swen were both coexisting spellings of the name Sven

yes, fv

beauty

[dusky leaf]

lmao when i speak english i don't even care what tense i speak in sometimes

[nova sparrow]

where's that from?
King Salomon and Sam(m)alund...

[rustic dock]

i am not entirely sure anymore, it's been a while

[timber yacht]

Ich war ebenfalls neugierig und habe es via Google Bildersuche herauszufinden versucht. Wiederfinden hat nicht geklappt, aber die KI-Übersetzung hilft bei der Einordnung. 🙂

[teal cliff]

Doesnt the same go for standard german

😭🙏

[tulip skiff]

what is it with german borrowing latin prepositions

[jade hawk]

both come from the same source in proto indo european

[strong robin]

Guys, is it possible to get testdaf certificate from a1 to c1 in only one year?

[dreamy forum]

How do I say "She used him until she got what she needed" in German? I mean, what's the right word for this usage of "use"?

[dreamy forum]

Well, I don't think it's impossible but it'll be really hard

Because C1 isn't just the grammar and the words, it's recognizing the language and being able to think like a German while speaking

[hazy swan]

It's taken me almost five years to get to C1 and I work about as hard as you can when you have a family and a fulltime job.

[willow socket]

I would probably say “ausnutzen” but maybe there’s other better options

[dreamy forum]

alright, thanks

[dreamy forum]

actually, yeah

A year isn't enough, tbh cause I've been studying for a year and I'm barely B1

(memorizing words are my problem tho lol)

[gusty mauve]

This channel is "questions" so I think I'm not wrong in asking a question here
I'd very much like to speak with a "native" german, I have a few questions about education there - if possible, can anyone with 5 to 10 minutes to spare DM me? danke!

[hazy swan]

You can memorize a lot if you're doing it like a fulltime job but I think one of the big differences between B and C is that B emphasizes core vocabulary while C is more about usage and fluency, which is largely a product of time and use. Think of it like playing piano. You can memorize a ton of chords pretty quickly, but it takes a lot of time and repetition to be able to move from chord to chord fluidly.

[dreamy forum]

That's actually very well explained, yeah

thanks a lot

[strong robin]

thanks, would you suggest anything for me where to start and how to keep the progress?

[strong robin]

im a 1st year engineering student so i have the easiest classes of my department which i can spare more time to study german, im planning to take courses and study pretty hard for it

[hazy swan]

I'd strongly suggest really trying to immerse yourself as much as possible. Change your phone's language. Stick to only watching German videos and only listening to German podcasts (and do a lot of both). Browse German-language groups on Reddit. Write your notes and stuff in German. If I wanted to try to get to C1 in a year I would be trying to squash my time spent using English to the smallest possible amount.

Also a small tip -- at first you're going to be Googling "German podcasts" and stuff like that and you'll get a lot of podcasts about German, but if you want actual German content, Google in German. Google stuff like "Podcasts über Spülmachine" or whatever. Probably not that, but you get the idea I hope.

Youtube will grep pretty quickly that you want German content and will start recommending it.

[strong robin]

thanks man, i have already changed everything to the german. Even computer language (of course phone too). Currently im using Easy German youtube channel to hear and understand basic daily life stuff. And also have started listening slow german songs even if i don't understand. I will probably will start writing notes in german when im enough advanced to write in german.. And thanks for the tips man. Even english is not my mother language tho 😄

[hazy swan]

Oops, ha ha

[strong robin]

I gotcha yeah thanks

[strong robin]

Much appreciated man

[hazy swan]

Good luck.

[nova sparrow]

@dreamy forum
ausnutzen, missbrauchen, benutzen (sie hat ihn benutzt) but ausnutzen would be the most common

[dreamy forum]

Ah, alright I see

ausnutzen takes an accusative object, right?

[delicate tiger]

Dictionaries are great

[dreamy forum]

don't answer if you think the question has a problem

[drifting cypress]

Hallo, ich brauche Hilfe für die amtliche Wörter:

[drifting cypress]

Jetzt meine Antworten sind: 1a, 2c, 3d, 4e, 5f. Ich bin mich nicht sicher, ob alles richtig sind.

[jade hawk]

Jetzt sind meine Antworten: 1a, 2c, 3d, 4e, 5f. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob alles richtig ist.

[balmy axle]

jetzt bin ich mal dran

bro wtf

1a
2c
3d
4e
5b
6b

also bei 5 hab ich ehrlich keine ahnung was es is also hab ichs mit ausschließen gemacht 😭

[drifting cypress]

Du hast f vorgessen, oder?

[balmy axle]

ich hab zweimal b genommen

schlau wie immer

1a
2c
3d
4e
5f
6b

so

[drifting cypress]

Hat jemand die Lösungsplatte von “Wortschatz B2 das Training”? Das letzte Thema ist zu schwierig, ich kann nicht mehr üben.

[jade hawk]

Welches Verb soll ich benutzen wenn ich eine Situation beschreiben will in der ein streunendes Tier nicht mehr streunend ist, weil ich sein Halter werde? Ein Tier aufnehmen?

[nova sparrow]

Das klingt perfekt. Ein Tier (bei sich) aufnehmen. 👍

[jade hawk]

Danke

[nova sparrow]

Gern geschehen!

[worldly hound]

I need someone to help me understand this sentence please "Auf die paar Jahre kam es doch jetzt auch nicht mehr an" a translator already told me what it means, but I'm struggling to make sense of the individual words

[plush pelican]

Auf etwas ankommen
= It depends on something

"ankommen" is a separable verb, a trennbares Verb

If you're not already familiar with those, YouTube search "german separable verbs"

"auf etwas ankommen" is a verb + preposition combination, much like "to depend on something"

The subject is "es", but it's not in position 1. Why? Because in German, the subject doesn't have to be in position 1

[worldly hound]

so this is a unit?

[plush pelican]

Yeah

Here's a list of more verb + preposition combos

https://mein-deutschbuch.de/verben-mit-praepositionalergaenzungen.html

[worldly hound]

I am pretty familiar with this structure yes but for some reason I really can't understand this sentence

[plush pelican]

Ignore "doch jetzt auch"

Put "es" in Position 1 for a second

Es kam nicht auf die paar Jahre an

[worldly hound]

It doesn't depend on these couple of years?

[plush pelican]

Yeah, except the full sentence is "nicht mehr", so "not anymore"

[worldly hound]

It no longer depends on these couple of years

[plush pelican]

Yeah

"doch jetzt auch nicht mehr"

doch = contrary to what might be expected
jetzt = now
nicht mehr = not anymore

auch nicht mehr = similarly not anymore

[worldly hound]

similarly not anymore? What does that mean exactly?

btw this is extremely helpful thank you so much

[plush pelican]

More context would be helpful (like a prior sentence)

[worldly hound]

okay one second

[plush pelican]

But it sounds like they were saying "X isn't the reason for this"

And then said

"The few years similarly weren't the reason for this anymore, either"

[worldly hound]

Mir war schon klar, dass auch Menschen über vierzig noch ein Anrecht auf ein erfülltes Liebesleben haben, aber hätte sie (the mother of the protag) damit nicht warten können, bis wir (protag and her sister) erwachsen waren? Auf die paar Jahre kam es doch jetzt auch nicht mehr an.

[worldly hound]

okay here! had to copy it so I hope it doesn't have any mistakes

oops missing word

[plush pelican]

Couldn't she have waited (to have a fulfilled life) until we were fully grown?

And then Literally translated: It didn't depend on those few years anymore.

Less literally: Those few years didn't matter anymore now.

So they were almost adults anyway, what do a few more years matter? She could've waited it out, instead of running off, or whatever she did.

She'd waited a number of years already, a few more wouldn't have mattered

[worldly hound]

oooooo

[worldly hound]

is this little nuance conveyed by 'auch'?

[plush pelican]

"doch jetzt auch nicht mehr" is complicated 😅

"doch" = contrary to expectation, so the expectation is that a few years would matter...except she'd already been taking care of them for, what, 15 years or something now?

jetzt = now, where they are very nearly adults anyway

nicht mehr = not anymore, it doesn't matter anymore, because they are almost adults anyway, and she's spent so much time already

doch auch nicht mehr = this, too/similarly, wasn't the reason anymore, contrary to expectations

[worldly hound]

everything makes sense until we get to this point

[plush pelican]

Or maybe the "auch" is better translated as "either"

[worldly hound]

my brain is working really hard to understand

[plush pelican]

"this wasn't the reason anymore either, contrary to expectations"

So if this wasn't the reason anymore either, what was the reason?

They're talking that justification down, saying that didn't justify her doing (whatever she did)

There must've been another reason, perhaps she was selfish or something.

At least, that's how the character speaking thinks

[worldly hound]

okay hold on lemme read through this again

[plush pelican]

What's the next bit? That might help as well

[worldly hound]

the protag asks herself some questions like couldn't she have done this, that etc

lemme copy the next sentence

[worldly hound]

Und wenn sie schon unbedingt mit Mr Planänderung zusammen sein wollte, reichte es da nicht, eine Wochenendbeziehung zu führen? Musste siz gleich unser ganzes Leben auf den Kopf stellen?

question, is that original sentence sarcastic?

[plush pelican]

And if she just absolutely had to get together with Mr. Change-of-Plans, wouldn't having a weekend-affair have sufficed? Did she have to turn our whole life upside down?

It's a bratty kid only thinking of how the mother's actions have negative impacts on their own life, rather than thinking about how the mother herself was feeling and how she got to that place

[worldly hound]

classic teenage protagonist lmao

[plush pelican]

So she's implying that the reason for her mom going off with the new guy is that the mom is simply selfish

that nothing else explains her (the daughter's) life being disrupted like this

So the few years that the Mom would've had to wait until the kids were adults, before the Mom could have a fulfilled life, she's like, "That doesn't count as a valid reason to do this, we were so close to being adults anyway, she'd already spent so long looking after us, what do a few (more) years matter anymore?"

[worldly hound]

ALL THIS conveyed in that one small sentence?

wow

so does that make that original sentence sarcastic in tone?

"Auf die paar Jahre kam es doch jetzt auch nicht mehr an" here it is again so you don't have to scroll

[plush pelican]

not exactly sarcastic, more like downplaying that "not being able to wait a few more years" is a valid justification for the mother's actions

nothing justifies disrupting my life, Mom is just being selfish

[fervent kernel]

der Unterricht ist zu Ende 🥳🥳

[worldly hound]

okay i see

I'm guessing that after reading this sentence structure a few more times in different contexts, it'll make perfect sense to me

for now, I understand this particular sentence very well thanks to you, and i understand each words separately too but I'm still having a little bit of trouble, as expected when you're trying to learn a new language

thank you so much @plush pelican :DDD

[fervent kernel]

hallo ich möchte etwas fragen.
ich habe heute das gelernt. schreibung als ''dass'' als konjunktion. und im buch steht ''leitet einem Nebensatz ein (Ausnahme ''sodass'')''. Kann jemand mir erklaren was das bedeutet? Warum sodass eine Ausnahme ist?

[heady lagoon]

Normalerweise wird „dass“ allein benutzt, um einen Nebensatz einzuleiten. Es gibt aber Wörter, in denen „dass“ schon drinsteckt, z. B. „sodass“.

Was ist „sodass“?:

• sodass ist keine Kombination von „so“ + „dass“, sondern eine** feste Konjunktion**, die Folge oder Ergebnis ausdrückt:

Beispiel:
Es regnete stark, sodass das Spiel abgesagt wurde.
(Das Spiel wurde abgesagt als Folge des Regens.)

Es geht auch mit so dass getrennt, und beide Schreibweisen sind richtig, aber die zusammengeschriebene Form „sodass“ ist empfohlen, wenn ein Folgesatz gemeint ist.

Das Buch meint wahrscheinlich, „dass“ ist normalerweise allein die Konjunktion.
Aber bei sodass wird das Wort als Ganzes verstanden (wie „weil“ oder „obwohl“), nicht als „so + dass“ im wörtlichen Sinn.

[plush pelican]

Aber dann gibt's auch Autoren, die statt "sodass" einfach "dass" schreiben. 🤬

der Chor stimmte in die Kantate ein, dass es im Saal widerhallte

[ruby sierra]

How does one become a Master of Deutsch..m

[willow socket]

First you’ll have to get a bachelor in Deutsch, then a master.

[slim lodge]

I had a bachelor in Deutsch, but then I married him

[eternal wagon]

Anyone knows a site with german grammar exercices? Ive been through some

[plain umbra]

https://www.nthuleen.com/teach/grammar.html

[eternal wagon]

Danke!

[flint nimbus]

nice! It has some song suggestions too. Been trying to find more german language music i might like

[glass hawk]

Interessant! Diese Verwendung war mir nicht bekannt. Das kommt auch bei „that“ im altmodischen Englischen vor, sogar noch im Frühneuenglischen, dass(†) ich mich fragen muss, ob ihr gemeinsames Ursprungswort das zu seinen Bedeutungen gezählt hat, und ihre jeweiligen Nachkommen haben einfach daran festgehalten (zumindest in einer Art Randgebrauch), die heutzutage normalerweise durch eine erweiterte Form dieser Konjunktion ausgedrückt würde (d. h. „such that“ / „sodass“ ).

||(† Entschuldigung, konnte nicht widerstehen! :D)||

[glass hawk]

Äh, diese Nachricht hätte zweifellos besser formuliert werden können.

[regal wave]

ernsthaft? Ein (Semi)kolon nach "gezählt hat" würde den Satz (zum. für mich) so einfacher machen. ^^

[glass hawk]

Das ergibt ja mehr Sinn. Ich habe diesen Teil der Nachricht mehrmals umgeschrieben, immer unsicherer, ob meine beabsichtigte Bedeutung richtig ausgedrückt wurde. Ich bin mir ehrlich gesagt noch unsicher lol

[flint nimbus]

was seiner Meinung nach oft fehlt.
is nach really necessary here? would it work without it?

[plain umbra]

How would you write it without nach?

[flint nimbus]

just without nach

the rest remains

[plain umbra]

I don't think that would make sense.

[flint nimbus]

what does nach do in the sentence as it is?

[plain umbra]

It's a postposition.

Like a preposition but it goes after the noun instead of before.

[flint nimbus]

so it's the according to in according to his opinion

got it, thanks

[plain umbra]

Yes. Or you can just say "in his opinion".

[teal cliff]

Without nach it means what's missing in the content of his opinion

not: what's missing in his opinion

if you know what I mean

literally means: what is missing to his opinion

[flint nimbus]

i see! Yes, i think i get it

i think i assumed the construction seiner Meinung implied in his opinion, but it's clear now that it doesn't, and one needs the postposition nach (or something similar) 👍

[teal cliff]

yuppp :3

[fervent kernel]

Herzlichen Dank für Ihre Antwort 🩷

[native folio]

Ich sagte ihm, dass ich meine Hausaufgaben zu machen versuche oder Ich sagte ihm, dass ich meine Hausaufgaben versuche, zu machen.

Which one is correct or both are correct, then which one is more natural in spoken German?

[delicate tiger]

"..., dass ich versuche, meine Hausaufgaben zu machen."

[solemn horizon]

Deutschakademie is superb. Unlimited exercises on any grammar topic you can imagine

And sortable by grammar topic or level

[thick ocean]

Hello everyone

[languid canopy]

How would y'all say "its finally the weekend!" Trying to practice my journaling in German and I wrote "Es ist endlich Wochenende" though idk if that's right.

[regal wave]

Perfekt

Fehlt nur das ! 🙂