questions-2

[plain umbra]

Sonst noch etwas is a bit more like a fixed/idiomatic phrase so it's fine to take it as is, but sonst basically means like "other than that".

So in the context of ordering something and being asked this:
sonst -> aside from what you already ordered
noch -> still/yet, as in, your order continues, it's not finished yet
etwas -> something

[clever hare]

That's very helpful. I feel more confident constructing sentences with it now. Thank you very much! I hope you have a great day, night, or evening! ~🌟

[dawn finch]

Hi guys, sorry to disturb you but im looking for a language course institution. It would be geuninely helpful if any of you guys can suggest me a good deutsche sprachschule. thanks in advance!

[spark ibex]

Where u from? Goethe is pretty consistent with the quality globally

[pulsar sand]

@hushed dawn This is a very interesting expression. It is being used (at least where I live). So let's explore this sentence. Usually a bank is something that you think of being something that is secure, successful and something you can rely on in some way. This expression is used to indicate ironically that the person is the exact opposite. Same goes for "Du bist mir ja ne Marke" > Can be used to say "You are acting weird" -> Eine Marke usually stands for a specific quality. Hence, this person has some "special" (weird) qualities.

[fervent kernel]

Was ist der unterschied zwischen entgegennehmen und bekommen?

[pulsar sand]

Ich nehme ein Paket entgegen (I accept a parcel) // Ich bekomme ein Paket (I receive a parcel) both are synonyms 🤷‍♂️

[sacred terrace]

"entgegennehmen" is more formal and primarily being used when you receive physical objects of any sort but also immaterial things like get well wishes. "bekommen" is like the get in english

[hushed dawn]

Thank you for the explanation

[unkempt stirrup]

i was looking through the translation of a german song i was vibing to and got kinda confused by this site’s translation

google translate says “Lass die Musik an” means “Leave the music on,” which is what i initially thought too, but this site with the full english lyrics says it’s “Crank up the music”

is this just a translation based on preserving the figurative feeling rather than the literal meaning of the words? or are both literal meanings correct in german? or is one just wrong

[icy flax]

I find google more precise. Afaik crank up is making sth louder, turning the sound up, it is different.

[dawn finch]

Ohh ill try to consider that. Just one more question to ask, is there any decent sprachshule in leipzig. Sorry for asking questions like this cuz im new to germany and i do not know much about it.

[unkempt stirrup]

yeah, it is different, which is why i was confused it would translate into such different meanings. guess ill go with my gut and say that the site is wrong

[brave flint]

is that the official translation?

or a machine translation?

it might be because the translator thought
Crank it up sounds better than
Leave it on

[spark ibex]

No idea

[old roost]

Das weiß ich eigentlich nicht. Woher .... du das denn?

It's about information of some news. what verb fit? mitbekommen? kriegen?

[limpid trout]

what's the most natural rendition of something like english's "I hope you sleep well too."?
"Ich hoffe, du wirst auch gut schlafen."?

[charred harbor]

Probably “ich hoffe du schläfst auch gut” I’d imagine

[crisp marlin]

“ich hoffe, dass du auch gut schläfst” würd ich sagen :))

[limpid trout]

can someone clarify to me the specifics of when people typically don't use the grammatical future tense?

[long whale]

It's easier to say when we do use it: mostly for promises and threats. 🌻

[limpid trout]

that is good to know

[charred harbor]

The “that” doesn’t really correspond with the English

But eh

I guess which one’s better is a matter of personal opinion hahah

[hushed dawn]

dazukommen vs hinzufügen ??

[long whale]

intransitive vs. transitive

[cerulean torrent]

I am studying A2 and came across verb beraten(to advice). I thought it is similar to danken and saw an example Tom hat mich beraten. But i was thinking like this: Tom hat mir beraten (used mir as it answers who rather what) and logic similar to ich danke dir. Can anyone help me what I am missing here to understand.

[south zenith]

You’re not really missing anything tbf, it’s just that danken requires to object to be dative and beraten requires an accusative object

[cerulean torrent]

So i just need to by heart. Is there any logical reasoning behind this?

[south zenith]

If there is I don’t know it, but a lot people remember it by like the saying in English “thanks to you” bc a lot of people learn the dative case as like “to you”

[outer edge]

Hi why is it Mehrmals die Woche and not Mehrmals in der Woche?
Why is the option of month in dative but the option of week not?

[south zenith]

Be- words also tend to be accusative as far as I know

[south zenith]

I think “die Woche” used like this is a bit colloquial as far as I’ve been told, but the reason Woche is accusative and Monat is not is just the presence of the article “in”. you even said “mehrmals in der Woche” which is dative bc of the in

[teal cliff]

idk mehrmals in der woche sounds wrong to me

[plush pelican]

I'm not sure why you say "mehrmals die Woche", but I think it's kind of colloquial maybe?

[cerulean torrent]

I just got into a comparison btw raten and beraten. Raten(to advice) usually comes with what advice given (accusative - answering was) and to whom(dative answering who). while beraten usually stops with who the advice is given making the person who receive advice Dative. z.B. ich berate dich

[south zenith]

It does to me too honestly I’m only used to a definitive amount like zweimal in der Woche

[teal cliff]

id also say zweimal die woche there tbh

[plush pelican]

When writing formally for a test, would you say that? Also, are you a native speaker?

[teal cliff]

uh yes, im from austria

[teal cliff]

hmm good question tbh lol

lemme google just so i dont tell you anything thats factually incorrect

[south zenith]

Yea ik people say that too, I’ve been told that’s pretty colloquial tho

[teal cliff]

no its fine

apparently

[plush pelican]

Interesting 🤔

[plush pelican]

What about "zweimal pro Woche" vs. "zweimal die Woche"? Do you see a difference between those?

[long whale]

It's fine, though.

[long whale]

To me, at least, there is none. 🌻

[plush pelican]

So you'd say "zweimal die Woche" is perfectly fine on a test, too?

[teal cliff]

wirklich? es klingt komisch irgendwie... idk vielleicht weil ich in meinem alltag fast nur dialekt rede .... egal.

[teal cliff]

i probably have written this on a test b4 lol

[plush pelican]

Wie wäre es mit "zweimal unter der Woche", 🤣

[teal cliff]

zweimal pro woche....

😭

[teal cliff]

actually youre right

ich weiß nicht warums zuerst so falsch geklungen hat....

[plush pelican]

Echt jetzt: ist das falsch?

[long whale]

Total. 🤷

[plush pelican]

Ich habe zum Beispiel einige Kommentare gefunden...

[teal cliff]

unter der woche gehe ich nie früh schlafen 😭

[long whale]

Yeah, seems you can find examples for any wrong thing under the sun.

[teal cliff]

deutsch ist mir zu schwierig; muss ich ganz ehrlich sein 😭

[wet dawn]

Das Leben ist zu kurz .... 🙂

[plush pelican]

So you can say that you do something "unter der Woche", but not that you do it two times "unter der Woche"?

[long whale]

But "unter der Woche" means as much as "not at the weekend"

[teal cliff]

wirklich wth

[plush pelican]

Würdest du "zweimal unter der Woche" sagen?

als Österreicher/in?

[teal cliff]

nein lol

[teal cliff]

das klingt komisch

[teal cliff]

der rest ist umgangssprache.... ich glaub ich muss deutsch lernen

💀

[teal cliff]

it just means during the week ..... 😭

[long whale]

DWDS agrees it's süddeutsch - probably the reason I'm familiar with it. 🤷

[long whale]

Yeah, but as opposed to the weekend, right?

"Unter der Woche habe ich abends keine Zeit" -> I don't have time in the evening Mon - Fri, right?

[teal cliff]

ja... true

[plush pelican]

I've even found it in some semi-official articles

https://mettmann.polizei.nrw/artikel/der-staat-ist-kein-papiertiger

https://www.ekfhn.de/unsere-geschichte/geschichte-der-samaritergemeinde

[long whale]

What can I say?

🤷

[teal cliff]

ich bin auch überfragt; es klingt komisch

zweimal die woche klingt am besten bis jetzt tbh

xD

[plush pelican]

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/so-viele-einschulungen-in-berlin-wie-seit-17-jahren-nicht-mehr-8590459.html

Even found a Tagesspiegel article 😮

It's difficult as a foreign language learner, telling the difference between usages of the language that you're not familiar with versus what's just a common mistake people make.

Auf jeden Fall danke @teal cliff @long whale

[teal cliff]

immer gerne lol

[long whale]

I feel you.

[quasi quarry]

if it's a common mistake then it may as well just be part of the language

[teal cliff]

... right

[twin robin]

Hallo! Ich habe eine Frage. Gibt es ein Unterschied zwischen: "Ich dachte wir wären Freunde" und "Ich dachte wir Freunde wären"? (Normally word order isn't too confusing for me but this one's been giving me trouble... thank you in advance!)

[valid knoll]

The first one is correct.

[plush pelican]

Inserting the appropriate commas would help:

Ich dachte, wir wären Freunde.

Ich dachte, dass wir Freunde wären.

You need "dass" for the second sentence in order for it to be correct.
As you can see, each sentence is actually made up of 2 clauses.

[sleek bone]

Is this sentence grammatically correct?
"Ich hatte gestern irgendeinen Teller."

[dense obsidian]

yes

[sleek bone]

Dankeschön

[rotund shadow]

Wie kann ich die Sprachchat anmachen.

Ich bin neue hier

[obtuse creek]

Could someone help with with understanding the word “fällt“

I understand it in the context of falls, but outside of it’s literal definition it’s used in completely different contexts that all seem unrelated

[sacred terrace]

Yeah? Things like these are very common in many languages?

You have to be more specific what bothers you

[obtuse creek]

That’s exactly why I asked. It’s a highly contextual / idiomatic based approach. Which is best taught through the lens of a native speaker more immersed in the trivialities and irregularities of the language

AI or other resources just couldn’t construct the greatest understanding for me

I want to better understand common phrases and perhaps someone could offer a better approach to internalization and recognition of its versatile application

[sacred terrace]

Well "fallen" means falling or dropping. The issue I see for people who learn, is "gefallen" = "like" which is also the past tens form of "fallen"= "to fall" or "anfallen" which means "occuring". There are also "zerfallen" which means "deteriote", wegfallen, zufallen etc.

There are also many cases like "Fällt dir das schwer?" = "Do you have a hard time with it?" Where it might look confusing to learners

[obtuse creek]

Oder es fällt mir ein

Oder es fällt auf

Oder mir fällt nichts ein

Oder was fällt dir ein

Oder 😭😭

Es gibt so viele Möglichkeiten

[long whale]

But surely, the same is true for every common German verb? Their meaning often changes, sometimes quite drastically, in a way it can't be deduced from its components, depending on their prefix. I'm afraid it's the same as in English or any other language I know of: these verbs have to be memorized one by one, over time, intentionally, or via input. 🌻

[pure walrus]

how do germans say "can" ( like coke can) and "jar"

[long whale]

You just need to scroll down to the 2nd entry here, i.e. I. under can²: https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/englisch-deutsch/can?bidir=1

And here's the entry for "jar": https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/englisch-deutsch/jar

[pulsar sand]

Coca-Cola Dose, Cookie jar = Keksdose

[lilac granite]

Hey guys, i'm not sure if this is quite the right channel for this so apologies for that.
i'm an absolute beginner, as in, i don't speak german at all besides a few popular words. how do i go on about being somewhat fluent in maybe the next one year? i'm thinking doing a sort of alphabet -> basic grammar -> the more advanced stuff kind of progression, which is kind of how i was taught english at school (it's not my first language). would this be ideal or should i go for something else? if yes, can someone point me to any resources which are similar to this?
i know #resources exists but i took a look at it but it's kind of overwhelming (💀) and nothing seems to quite match up to what i'm looking for. any help is appreciated

[plain umbra]

faq beginner

[stoic mauve]

How to get started

The simplest way to learn German is to find topics you don’t understand yet and search for explanations of them. This list provides you with a guide for which topics to learn if you are completely new to German. Type the topic into Google (or YouTube) and start learning!

Introduction

1: Alphabet (especially ä, ü, ö and ß)
2: Basic greetings (hello, goodbye, etc.)

Part 1 - Simple Sentence

1: Noun gender & plurals
2: Nominative case (What are cases?)
3: Nominative pronouns (I, you, he, she, etc.)
4: Verbs in present tense
5: Definite/indefinite articles
6: Accusative case (for nouns)
7: Accusative pronouns
8: Word order of simple sentences
9: How to ask questions

See Part 2 on the next page.

Tips

• Always learn the gender of a noun when you learn a new noun
• Learn to use a translation dictionary (e.g. dict.cc, leo.org)
• Use >faq resources to see our list of German learning resources
• For listening and pronunciation practice, try watching movies or videos (incl. YouTube)
• You can listen to pronunciation for words on websites like dict.cc, forvo.com, and others
• Practice writing sentences every day (and asking people to correct them)
• Ask as many questions as possible
• Don’t be scared to make mistakes!!!! If you don’t let yourself make mistakes, you will never be able to learn German

Page 1/2

[plain umbra]

faq nicos

[stoic mauve]

Nicos

Nicos Weg is a free online program aimed at helping people learn German. It includes video, audio, text, grammar explanations, notes, vocabulary, and exercises. It also includes very useful cultural and bureaucratic information, such as how to open a bank account, while teaching you the relevant grammar and vocabulary.

It’s fairly popular and well-recommended, but keep in mind that you can’t learn a language with only one resource, even if it’s a good one!

You can find the courses here: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/overview/

You can also see various other courses for learners by dw.com here: https://www.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-2469/

[plain umbra]

@lilac granite Check out these two things and see how it goes for you.

[lilac granite]

oooh that seems good, i'll chekc it out, thanks!

[fervent kernel]

Hi, ich brauche hilfe für die Übersetzung eines Satzes.
"You dont have to rush it, if you are not ready to break up with him"
Wie würdet ihr das übersetzen?

Ich würde sagen : "Ihr müsst euch nicht beeilen, wenn ihr noch nicht bereit seid, euch zu trennen."

[twin robin]

thank you!

[long whale]

Your German sentence works, but you do realize its meaning is significantly different from the one of your English sentence, don't you?

English version: if you (singular) aren't ready to break up with him, vs. German version: if the two of you aren't ready to break up with each other.

[hybrid shore]

Hallo zusammen, hat jemand den Telc C1 hochschule übungstest 3 und 4? Wenn ja, könnten Sie mich bitte privat erreichen?

[fervent kernel]

Can you help me with the translation please?

[long whale]

I thought I had?

[fervent kernel]

I mean to german

[long whale]

I'd thought pointing out the exact nature of the problem might help. 😅 So, to break up = sich trennen, vs. to break up with somebody = sich von jemandem trennen

[fervent kernel]

Is this a good way to rephrase "Das Hauptproblem ist, dass"?
Das Hauptproblem liegt daran, dass...

[teal cliff]

darin *

[long whale]

Das H. besteht darin, dass... ;)

[fervent kernel]

Much thanks

[fervent kernel]

Can I use sich with um zu instead of using damit?
For example
Um sich der Körper auf die Verarbeitung des Zuckers zu vorbereiten.
Instead of saying "damit sich der Körper auf die Verarbeitung des Zuckers vorbereitet.

[glass hawk]

In the absence of a subject, you have to use ‘um ... zu’. But aye, you can use ‘sich’ in an ‘um ... zu’ clause. ‘Damit’ requires a subject within the clause.

[long whale]

Look, this bit is not enough. The 1st part of the sentence is necessary, okay? But in all likelihood, using "um... zu..." is not going to be possible, because you can never use it when a sentence has 2 different subjects.

Your suggestion is entirely incorrect, however.

[fervent kernel]

Die Geschmacksrezeptoren leiten die Information über die Zuckeraufnahme sofort an das Gehirn weiter, damit...

[long whale]

Ich trainiere täglich, damit ich den Wettkampf gewinne can be changed into Ich trainiere täglich, um den Wettkampf zu gewinnen because the subject is the same.

Ich trainiere dich täglich, damit du den Wettkampf gewinnst can not be changed into a sentence using "um... zu..."

@fervent kernel

[fervent kernel]

Yeah, got it.
Different subjects. First sentence die Geschm... and the second one der Körper

Thanks

[fervent kernel]

Mit den archäologischen Grabungen in Marathon, bei denen 1890 die Gräber der Athener, die in der Schlacht gefallen waren...

I can't tell why it's gefallen waren. Why not wurden?

Incase the rest if the sentence is important

Mit den archäologischen Grabungen in Marathon, bei denen 1890 die Gräber der in der Schlacht gefallenen Athener freigelegt wurden, kam diese Erzählung – wahrscheinlich eine Erfindung des vierten vorchristlichen Jahrhunderts – wieder in Erinnerung.

I know one focuses on the result and the other one on the action. Still can't tell

[long whale]

In this particular case, there is only one possibility, ever. Think: which auxiliary does "fallen" require?

[fervent kernel]

Sein

[long whale]

And can you make it transitive?

i.e. can it have an Akkusativobjekt? If the answer is no, and if it doesn't have a Dativobjekt, either, then in all probability, it is one of those verbs which do not accept the passive.

[fervent kernel]

No

Thanks

[long whale]

werden + past participle of "fallen" is simply unthinkable. Also, you may not be aware, but "fallen" is a verb specifically used for soldiers dying in a war: Mein Großvater ist im Krieg gefallen = My grandfather died in the war (and it's understood from the verb he was a soldier, i.e. he did not die from some illness, or starve to death).

[plush pelican]

And by "passive", you mean Vorgangspassiv?

There are some intransitive verbs that can at least do Zustandspassiv

https://dict.leo.org/grammatik/deutsch/Wort/Verb/Kategorien/Genera/NoPassiv2.xml?lang=de

Einige intransitive Verben mit Dativobjekt oder Präpositionalobjekt können allerdings ein Zustandspassiv ohne Subjekt bilden, z. B. helfen, nützen, dienen, verzeihen, vergeben oder sorgen für.

Beispiele
Mit diesem Rat ist ihm nicht geholfen.
Den Angestellten ist mit einer Lohnsenkung sicher nicht gedient.
Wenn du es bereust, ist dir verziehen.
Für die Unterbringung der Gäste ist bereits gesorgt.

[clever hare]

What translator do you use for German? Or what website do you recommend to know about for learning?

[long whale]

This is an excellent, free course: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-9528 I'd warmly recommend using a dictionary instead of a translator, but if you do need one, use deepl.com

[jade hawk]

Kann ich "I don't care about that" durch "Ich kümmere mich um das nicht" ausdrücken? Oder nur "das kümmert mich nicht"?

[glossy trench]

,,das ist mir egal“ oder nur ,,ist mir egal“ funktioniert gut :))

[long whale]

I'd say the above works in pretty much any informal context.

[unique bronze]

Is it rude to say "es ist egal für mir" or something " I don't care about it". Is there a kinder way to say it?

[glossy trench]

“Ist mir egal“ can be used for many things. For example: „möchtest du lieber malen oder spielen?“ „ist mir egal“. So here it means ,,You can decide“ or something like that. But if you want do say ,,I don’t care about you“ it would be ,,Du bist mir egal“ which is pretty rude, yes

[shrewd fern]

a bit funny andu nprofessoinal way is "es ist mir wurst"

"mir ist es egal" can sound not-rude if you say it in the right tone too

[spiral loom]

Does "zocken" necessarily mean "to gamble" or can it be for example "Ich zocke Minecraft" to mean "I play Minecraft"?

[unique bronze]

Ist Wurst sausage?

[shrewd fern]

yup lol

[shrewd fern]

yeah younger people almost exclusively use "zocken" for playing video games

[unique bronze]

So we are saying "it's my sausage"

Context 🥺

[spiral loom]

Yeah I found that phrase in a reel for "Ich zocke Roblox" but my teacher corrected me for saying zocken because she said it meant exclusively to gamble

[shrewd fern]

more like "its sausage to me" 😭

german sayings often dont make sense

[shrewd fern]

yeah thats not really correct

in essays or smth youd obviously say "ich spiele roblox"

but for unprofessional conversations, you can and commonly do say "ich zocke roblox"

[spiral loom]

Oh okay, thanks <3

[shrewd fern]

yw!

[shrewd fern]

"its my sausage" would be "es ist meine wurst", "mir" roughly means "to me" usually

"gib mir das salz" = "give me the salt", or "give to me the salt" literally translated

[unique bronze]

Omg now the Dativ Case is becoming more clear now

Thanks

[shrewd fern]

yw!!

[delicate tiger]

that would be correct 30 years ago, but the computer/console gaming meaning has been added since

[spiral loom]

Yeah, i guess, true

I saw that word in a dictionary so I found it quite amusing because words like "spielen" really get boring after a while (I mean like, while learning a new language)

[serene mountain]

Why is habe and ich reversed in this instance?

I thought it was only for questions

[charred harbor]

V2 language, verb has to be in second spot

[serene mountain]

V2?

[charred harbor]

Yeah, verb second word order

[serene mountain]

I do not think I've learnt that yet. Thank you anyways 😄

[hushed dawn]

eng verknüpft mit vs eng verbunden mit ?

[long whale]

Depends on context. 🤷 You couldn't use the 1st if you wanted to say someone has a very close relationship with other people, e.g. family members, but the 2nd would work just fine.

[plush pelican]

V2 word order is simple.

It means, in main clauses the conjugated verb (the verb that is matched to the subject, in this sentence "habe") must stay in position 2, no matter what.

Ich habe jetzt ein großes Problem.
Jetzt habe ich ein großes Problem.

So it's not that "habe" and "ich" switched places, it's that "jetzt" and "ich" switched places. "habe" stayed where it always was, in position 2, but "jetzt" and "ich" switched places between position 1 and position 3.

You can put any number of things in position 1; it does not have to just be the subject there

Ich habe heute mit meinem Bruder im Park gespielt.
Heute habe ich mit meinem Bruder im Park gespielt.
Mit meinem Bruder habe ich heute im Park gespielt.
Im Park habe ich heute mit meinem Bruder gespielt.

Putting something other than the subject in position 1 is known as Topikalisierung, topicalization. You do this because you want to sort of emphasize the thing in position 1 in a way, because it is the "topic" of the sentence, the thing that the sentence is revolving around.

Bob: Hast du meinen Hund gesehen?

Frank: Deinen Hund habe ich nicht gesehen.

Here, Bob talks about "my dog". That becomes the focus of the conversation, so Frank then puts it in position 1 as the topic when he answers.

Deinen Hund habe ich nicht gesehen = Ich habe deinen Hund nicht gesehen.

These sentences are mostly equivalent, the only difference is emphasis; by moving things around, you are emphasizing or deemphasizing things.

When something else is in position 1, the subject has to go somewhere else. But because German has V2 word order (where the conjugated verb has to remain in position 2), the subject cannot simply move to position 2. Instead, it usually moves to position 3 after the verb.

Occasionally, the subject can also come much later in the sentence, as well.

[rain talon]

What does juckt mean here? i know its the verb to itch but it doesn't make sense with that translation

[rain talon]

Maybe you already know but Duolingo will not teach you grammar at any point

[rain talon]

Ah
And what does that mean? I never hear English speakers use this

@delicate tiger

[plush pelican]

It's perhaps an older saying, but it does get used. Basically, "I don't give a shit" or idgaf (I don't give a fuck), but politer. Literally, it's like, "this thing does not affect me at all (so I do not care about it.)"

[plush pelican]

"I'M XX YEARS OLD AND I LOOK BETTER [than you]" Ok, idgaf? (It's) Great, how women actively help put down other women and serve them up again with ideals because "one's not allowed to look like that at 30!" Am I right?

They're basically complaining about beauty standards for women and how other women help reinforce these toxic beauty standards, and saying that whole situation is bullshit.

[rain talon]

Thanks!

[split umbra]

What section and unit is the in?

[exotic dagger]

because of time verb change his second position and subject at 3 rd place…
Manchmal , letzetmal , selten all this time words sentence verb am 2nd position

[serene mountain]

Section 2, Unit 1 and then it's the book symbol (fourth one down)

[serene mountain]

Indeed so but I am primarily trying to use it to learn vocab

[serene mountain]

God bless, thank you for such a lengthy explanation

[frigid perch]

I discovered a new word gerade: "Dabei", seems to be extrimely versetile and diverse. Can anyone give simple and brief examples of it's usage??!??!

[icy flax]

"dabei" is one of the "da-words". They come from early age for a german. When they are just living their first days, they start calling "da" this "da" that surely and pointing.

Dabei is used to make a sentence complete. It usually has a implicit meaning "ich war schon dabei dir zu helfen": "I was already (on my way to that) to help you".

Weil du dabei bist, kannst du mir einen Glass holen.

It is sure versatile. It has similar usage like "dafür", "damit", "dagegen".

[long whale]

Basically... no. This involves about 2 grammar chapters. Best watch a video about wo- and da-compounds. I think Herr Antrim's made one. 🌻 If you show us the sentence you found it in, we can try to explain what it means in this case.

[long whale]

As to your truly exotic explanation, please note English used to have the same kind of thing, these days mostly used in legalese: therewith, thereupon, thereby, etc.

[plush pelican]

Ich helfe dir beim Abwasch.
I help you with the washing up.

Ich helfe dir dabei.
I help you with it.

Er braucht zum Bahnhof nicht weit zu gehen, er wohnt nahe dabei.
He doesn't need to go far for the train station, he lives nearby.

Er ist sehr beschäftigt, aber dabei immer freundlich.
He's very busy, but always friendly.

Ich habe versucht, einen Marathon zu laufen, obwohl ich nie für einen Marathon trainiert habe. Dabei habe ich mich verletzt.
I tried to run a marathon, although I've never trained for a marathon. I injured myself in the process.

Ich bin gerade dabei, das Zimmer aufzuräumen.
I'm (currently) cleaning up the room.

There's...multiple uses of "dabei"

and sometimes, it's hard to translate it back into English.

[long whale]

Yup. That's about 5 out of the 13 listed by Pons. 😅

[frigid perch]

wow

o

k

[glass hawk]

Aye, I can vouch for that being a great connection for English speakers to use. Some are more common than others (I'd say half of them feel completely archaic, a quarter particularly lofty but not archaic, and a quarter perfectly normal for formal use).

Thereby, therein, thereof, thereabout(s), and thereafter (and hereby/whereby equivalents for the most part) at least are fairly normal to hear in more formal contexts even outwith legalese (in UK/Scottish English at the very least). Before I made the connection, I found da- and wo-words confounding. And then it was like a lightswitch—clarity! @frigid perch

[plush pelican]

1. dabei = da + bei = bei + das (so, "dabei" is an entire prepositional phrase with both preposition and noun)
2. dabei = geographically "by it", next to something in terms of location
3. dabei = a sort of "however", a concessive thing that modifies the first sentence and says, "he is busy, but (in contrast to expectations) he's always friendly (when he's doing whatever he's doing)
4. Dabei = while doing that thing, so while I was trying to run the marathon (I injured myself)
5. "Ich bin gerade dabei, X zu tun" = I'm currently doing X (literally like, "I am currently on it, doing the X")

[icy flax]

Wirklich meine ist diese Erklärung leider nicht, Susana. Ich hab persönlich keine echte Erfahrung mit so jungen Deutschen, hehe. Den Link schaffe ich nun aus meinem Land iwie nicht aufrufen zu können, aber der muss dieser sein:
https://yourdailygerman.com/da-words-meaning-german/

Ich fands komikartig und dennoch super hilfreich wie er es erklärt hat (:
Seitdem bleibt diese gute Erklärung im Kopf fest. Grammatikalisch wäre die Erklärung wohl lang und wenn wir noch spezifische Fälle betrachten würden sogar länger, wobei Argus hat ne riesige Arbeit abgeliefert, ne? 😊

[icy flax]

i just heard "3)" also used with "aber dafür".

Ich weiß nichts von Fußballtipps aber dafür habe ich einen Podcast zu empfehlen.
Maybe this contrast is due to aber and not exactly due to dabei or dafür or darum. Was sagst du, @plush pelican?

[plush pelican]

I say that it's not me who said it, it's DWDS: https://www.dwds.de/wb/dabei#d-1-2-2

[icy flax]

Ich meinte eher was du darüber denkst, also nach deiner Meinung gefragt. Oft lese ich von diesen Quellen und für scheint es so, als würden sie Wasser und H2O unterscheiden wollen, aber vielleicht bin ich zu grob um diese feinen Details zu merken..

[plush pelican]

🤷‍♂️

Ich vertraue DWDS

[plush pelican]

I'm surprised by this word order in a Tagesschau article:

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/amerika/trump-immunitaet-reaktionen-100.html

Shouldn't that be, "sollte er vor Strafverfolgung geschützt sein"?

Is this a weird usage of Nachfeld? Except "sein" comes after "vor Strafverfolgung"?

[old roost]

Dieser Lehrer konnte den Schülern Geschichte wirklich nahebringen. Is nahebringen here means the story is enjoyable for the students?

[plush pelican]

Here, "Geschichte" = history as a school subject

[plush pelican]

The teacher could really bring history to life for the students, make them appreciate history, help them understand it better.

I doubt it

[old roost]

yes history, does nahebringen here means the students interest in the history or no, the students may not interest in it the teacher just bring them closer to history

[plush pelican]

Wiktionary says:

[1] verständlich und so interessant machen

You make the subject understandable and thus interesting

[old roost]

Thank you!

[plush pelican]

I mean, if I knew what it was, I wouldn't have asked about it 😅

There are several things in German that translate to the Gerund in English. But as far as I can tell, no, it doesn't resemble any of those things

Hammer's German Grammar 11.6 lists several things under the title, "Englisch constructions with the -ing form", aka Gerunds

1. A nominalized verb, like "das Zuhören", "das Singen", etc.
   It's clearly not that.

2. An Infinitivsatz with zu, like "Ich verlasse mich darauf, ihn zu Hause zu finden" = I rely on finding him at home.
   It's clearly not that.

3. certain dass clauses: "Er gab zu, dass er das Fenster zerbrochen hatte" = He admitted having broken the window
   It's clearly not that.

4. sometimes a verb in German has to be shifted into a Gerund in English:

"Wer kocht bei Ihnen zu Hause?" = Who does the cooking at your house?
It's not that.

5. using the conjunctions "indem" or "dadurch, dass"
   Er rettete sich dadurch, dass er aus dem Fenster sprang
   Er rettete sich, indem er aus dem Fenster sprang
   = He saved himself by jumping out of the window.
   It's not that.

6. using "um...zu..." Infinitivsätze or zum + nominalized verb. This equals "for + (verb)'ing"

It's not that.

7. "anstatt..zu..." Infinitivsätze for "instead of (verb)'ing"
   It's not that.

8. "on + (verb)'ing"
   It's not that. No "als" or "beim"

you get the idea

[jade hawk]

Sind "voraus", "voran" und "vorn/vorne" dasselbe? Wann meint man "in front/ahead"

[long whale]

No, they aren't. The first 2 indicate movement, the last position. I'm afraid your question is therefore only answerable in context.

[jade hawk]

okay ich werde mir den Teil über Bewegung merken

[crude tusk]

1. Ich treffe meinen Freund.
2. Ich treffe mich mit meinem Freund.

do they have a difference?
does the 1st means that they passed accidentally?

[long whale]

To me, yes, that is exactly what the difference is. "jemanden treffen" = to accidentally run into somebody; "sich mit jemandem treffen" = to meet by mutual agreement

[crude tusk]

Thanks

Is it normal if i use genitive case when talking (literally talking)? I've heard natives often avoid using genitives in conversation with other people

[coarse veldt]

yes you use it, but some people are too "faul" to do it

Example: Das ist das Auto meines Mannes

you would say that when natively speaking

[plain umbra]

Yeah, any kind of genitive you learn in beginner levels should be fine to use in speaking. Some of the more advanced stuff like C1 level grammar, that might have some things you should not use so much in speaking.

[whole portal]

I don't find it weird at all, it just puts the focus on geschützt a bit more imo. The "vor Strafverfolgung" characterizes the "geschützt" so "geschützt vor Strafverfolgung" becomes something similar to an Adjective

That's how it makes sense in my mind at least, I don't know any specific rules/regularities around this

[long whale]

I'm surprised you're surprised. This is your beloved Nachfeld again, isn't it? Seems it's getting busier by the minute. 😓

[crude tusk]

1. Die Kinder sollen im Haus bleiben
2. Die Kinder sollten im Haus bleiben

What is the difference?

[whole portal]

2. is either a suggestion/wish or in the past

[sacred terrace]

1. the kids are to stay at home 2. the kids should stay at home

[coarse veldt]

1. the kids should stay at home
2. the kids shouldve stayed at home

[sacred terrace]

Hmmm

Actually we are both correct

[crude tusk]

Some answers on the internet also says that sentence number 2 could be used to be more polite. Is that true?

[sacred terrace]

depending on context

[sacred terrace]

No, they mean differently depending on context

[crude tusk]

Oh

Thanks

[sacred terrace]

It's like "are to" and "should". There are nuances in their meaning and depending on context different messages are being said

[south zenith]

Sollen either means you don’t know and are assuming or it’s more like an obligation than a suggestion

[coarse veldt]

but you can also suggest with "sollen"

"Sollen in wir ins Kino?" = should we go to the cinema

[sacred terrace]

"Sollen" is "are to be" and "should" depending on context. "Sollten" is "Konjunktiv 2" which is being used when you repeat statement that are not yours or statments that might not be true

[south zenith]

If the object is unspecified you’d use das ig, if it’s about people you’d use der/die accordingly and if it’s a bout a specified object you match gender

Oh, yea I’d use das

[sacred terrace]

Can you give an example what you mean?

[acoustic breach]

You mean:
Der/die Lernende?

As far as I remember, Partizip 1/2 cannot be directly a noun

It can be an adjective

[sacred terrace]

Yeah well in those examples you'd need to adjust the noun and the articles depending on the gender of thepersons

[acoustic breach]

Notice the -e or -en at the end?

They are nominalised adjectives

[sacred terrace]

Der Lernende (männlich), die Lernende (weiblich), die Lernenden (Plural)

[acoustic breach]

Adjective: eingeladen

der eingeladene Mann -> der Eingeladene
die eingeladene Frau -> die Eingeladene

Yes

With the corresponding adjective ending

Ein Deutscher, der Deutsche
Eine Deutsche, die Deutsche
Die Deutschen

[sacred terrace]

I really don't envy people who have to learn german

[south zenith]

I imagine it has to do with when communicating with people who don’t speak your language it’s easy to point at a noun and say what it is, not so much with actions/adjectives

[sacred terrace]

Makes sense

[fervent kernel]

Deutsch und Russisch gelten als verwandt, haben sie doch eine gemeinsame Ursprache.

Why is "haben" in the first position?

[jaunty flame]

I wonder if the conjunction is omitted (or can be).

[long whale]

It's basically the same thing - although far more literary/unusual - as omitting the "wenn": Wenn ich reich wäre, würde ich um die Welt reisen -> Wäre ich reich, würde ich um die Welt reisen, resp. Ich würde um die Welt reisen, wenn ich reich wäre -> Ich würde um die Welt reisen, wäre ich reich.

In this case, there's an omitted "da": ... da sie eine gemeinsame Ursprache haben.

If I were you, I definitely wouldn't worry about this. Note it under sth like: this can happen, but is not not for active use. 🌻

[fervent kernel]

Thank you

[long whale]

@plush pelican Pinging you in case you haven't come across the above construction yet/you're interested. 🌻

[plush pelican]

But it can't be Nachfeld, can it?

If it were just Nachfeld, it would be

geschützt sein (vor Strafverfolgung).

Because Nachfeld is after all the verbs.

I would say yes, but a complement of both verbs

vor etwas (geschützt sein.)

The way Hilarious described it, it's like (geschützt vor etwas) is almost a complement of "sein"

The best explanation I have is moving (vor Verfolgung) back to emphasize it

Moving things into Nachfeld isn't done much in formal German compared to colloquial German.

[sacred terrace]

I'm sorry but are you still having the same issue?

[plush pelican]

Trying to decipher the logic behind a sentence I saw on Tagesschau, if that's what you mean by "the same issue"

[sacred terrace]

"Solange er in offizieller Funktion handele, sollte er geschützt vor Strafverfolgung sein" You suggested "sollte er vor Strafverfolgung geschützt sein" which is also correct

[plush pelican]

.

[plush pelican]

Right, my question is why is the version they put correct?

Is (vor Strafverfolgung) moved later in the sentence to emphasize it more?

Hilarious suggested (geschützt vor Strafverfolgung) + sein is like (adjective) + sein

Susana suggested Nachfeld, but as far as I know, it can't be that, because (vor Strafverfolgung) is still coming before "sein", and the Nachfeld comes after the verbs

[sacred terrace]

Ok, there are various different options

"sollte er geschützt vor Strafverfolgung sein"

"sollte er vor Strafverfolgung geschützt sein"

"sollte er geschützt sein vor Strafverfolgung "

uhh

the thing is ""sollte er geschützt sein"

completes the sentence

[plush pelican]

right, so then the last option would be Nachfeld

"sollte er geschützt sein (vor Strafverfolgung)"

the 2nd option is what I know to be normal

what the heck is the 1st option?

[sacred terrace]

I am reading it up to explain it. What we have here is a "teilsatz" and I am trying to figure out whether the rules are different there

[plush pelican]

I've seen it, 😄

my example?

Konjunktiv 1 replaced by Konjunktiv 2 (reported speech), present tense

Er ist vor Strafverfolgung geschützt.
Er soll vor Strafverfolgung geschützt sein ("soll" = reported claim by jemand)
Er sollte vor Strafverfolgung geschützt sein.

[sacred terrace]

The Teilsatz "sollte er geschützt vor Strafverfolgung sein" can be used alone as a statement

"Er sollte geschützt vor Strafverfolgung sein"

"Er sollte vor Strafverfolgung geschützt sein"

"Er sollte geschützt sein vor Strafverfolgung"

It's basically the normal "word order" rules?

"geschützt" ist an adjective

[long whale]

Ehh... it's Zustandspassiv, isn't it?

[long whale]

Well, whatever it is, and fwiw, I'd have used your version over the one used in the article. 🤷

[sacred terrace]

The Zustandspassiv would be the whole sentence. Geschützt by itself is an adjective

[long whale]

Excuse me, but this seems nonsensical. If the past participle is needed to form Zustandspassiv, how can it be an adjective?

[sacred terrace]

Why do you need it? "Er ist/ wird geschützt" is a perfectly fine sentence

[pulsar sand]

Imo this should be: (They said) Sie sagten er sei vor Strafverfolgung geschützt. (when you're telling someone else about something/Konjunktiv 1)
"Sollen" is not used in this context. it is used to indicate a request or order: Er sagte zu ihr, sie solle sich beeilen.

[long whale]

I think that's a misunderstanding...

[pulsar sand]

Achso es begann noch weiter oben. My bad 😄

[vernal ermine]

Guten Abend Freunde!

Wo kann ich mehre vocabulary studieren?

Wo könnte ich diese Wörter finden?

[pulsar sand]

google: A1 Vocabulary German pdf // Anki Decks freely available online (even tho you have to rely on the source for them to be correct) or make your own

[vernal ermine]

Welches Wörterbuch ist besser?

@signal cipher Danke schön

[plush pelican]

Yeah, there's a longer quote you missed.

They're reporting someone else's speech, and I think they're also using "sollen" in the sense of "reporting someone's claim"

Solange er in offizieller Funktion handele, sollte er geschützt vor Strafverfolgung sein.

Er ist geschützt = he is protected.
Er soll geschützt sein = he is allegedly protected.

Er sollte geschützt sein = he is allegedly (according to the justices) protected.

But maybe I'm wrong about the "sollen"

The English lines up pretty well, though:

As long as he acts in an official capacity, he should be protected from criminal prosecution.

[plush pelican]

What do you even mean by this.

But yeah, this is what I think the sollen is

Maybe?

[pulsar sand]

yeah it's conditional use: If he acted accordingly, he should/would be protected. I was confused as I thought you simply wanted to use reported speech in Konjunktiv 1

[hushed dawn]

Entgeistert und fassungslos

Sind die negativen Beschreibungen?

[pulsar sand]

yes

[pulsar sand]

Er liest das Buch -> Das Buch würde gelesen werden. -> Yes

[plush pelican]

That's Futur, right? If it were Präsens, it would just be "würde", oder?

[pulsar sand]

habe + werden doesn't make sense grammatically, as it combines the perfect tense structure with the passice voice formation. the correct way to express the passive voice in the subjunctive mood: Konjunktiv 2 is: würde + partizip 2 + werden. (Partizip 2 of "lesen" is "gelesen") -> Das Buch würde + gelesen + werden.

[old roost]

got a quick question. Is Durchsage = Ansage or there's slight difference?

[pulsar sand]

Ansage = Ankündigung (Announcement, Statement, Message)
Durchsage = Mitteilung (Message) durch ein Medium (Radio, Lautsprecher) - message through some sort of technical device /medium . This would be a slight difference, but they can also be used as synonyms. 🤯

[old roost]

I see

[plush pelican]

The "werden" is included in "würde". Double werden is Passiv Futur

[plush pelican]

You didn't answer if that was Präsens or Futur

[tiny scaffold]

Isn't it conditional? I would do something, not I will do something

[plush pelican]

Compare:

Ich bin gegangen.
Ich wäre gegangen.

"wäre" is the Konjunktiv of "sein", you don't need an extra "sein" at the end

Das Buch wird gelesen werden. = The book will get read.
Das Buch würde gelesen werden.
The boom would get read.

Das Buch wird gelesen.
The book gets read.
Das Buch würde gelesen.
The book would get read (here, the English is a bit muddled, I think)

But I know this isn't necessarily obvious, because the Grammatik Aktiv B2-C1 book had some exercises where the answers in the back were... interesting

I had a thread asking natives about this and got... 7 different opinions

But there is a German teacher guy who has videos who says it's just "würde" for Konjunktiv 2 Passiv Präsens

Why are you talking about Zustandspassiv?

https://youtu.be/MKIsi7nNVDs?si=k_4OhBS7AnAQQ-kE

Just because there's "wäre" doesn't mean Zustandspassiv

I said "Ich wäre gegangen"

That's Konjunktiv 2 Perfekt Aktiv. It's not Passiv

Hint: if it is passiv, you can turn the subject into an accusative object with the verb and make an active sentence out of it

Er geht mich?

Ich -> mich
Gehen is the verb

That doesn't work

That's not passiv

Das Buch wird gelesen
Ich lese das Buch.

This is passive

[plush pelican]

@signal cipher check out this video

Well, this is an advanced topic. I believe I've told you before, more advanced topics tend to be only in German. 🤷‍♂️

[pure crescent]

did you get an answer for this yet?

[near folio]

Ich habe vor eine Weile darüber auf Englisch geschrieben, falls du Interesse hast: https://germanlearningresources.blogspot.com/2018/03/modal-verbs-in-subjunctive-in-passive.html

[pure crescent]

So as I see it, kommen+ some verbs of movement is a stylistic choice to emphasize the "coming in" part of the motion.

Ich flattere in das Zimmer = I flutter into the room
Ich komme in das Zimmer geflattert = I flutter into the room, but with more emphasis on the moment I come in

Ich schwebe zu dir rüber = I glide towards you
Ich komme zu dir rübergeschwebt = I glide towards you but with more emphasis on the "coming" part of the motion

[plush pelican]

Where's Konjunktiv 2 Passiv Präsens ohne Modalverb?

[near folio]

hier: https://germanlearningresources.blogspot.com/2018/03/passive-voice-tenses-and-moods.html

[pulsar sand]

Präsens: Das Buch wird gelesen. // Future: Das buch wird gelesen werden.

[plush pelican]

in Konjunktiv 2

Das Buch würde gelesen. = Präsens
Das Buch würde gelesen werden. = Futur

oder?

[plush pelican]

Very nice, thanks

[pulsar sand]

Das Buch würde gelesen werden = Präsens // Das Buch würde gelesen werden werden. Future

[plush pelican]

🤔 That doesn't look right...

[acoustic tendon]

oh boy i love where this is going

[pulsar sand]

Notice the question was about passiv... For active: Er würde das Buch lesen (Präsens) // Er würde das Buch lesen werden. (Future)

[plush pelican]

Er würde das Buch lesen werden?

[pulsar sand]

yes, you noticed this sounds awkward, which is exactly why Germans typically use the present tense forms of Konjunktiv II to express both present and future.

[plush pelican]

This contradicts what I've read in sources on how to construct the tense

[pulsar sand]

ok

[serene mountain]

What is more commonly used between Student and Schüler?

Secondly, what's the best way to be able to write German letters that are not found in the English language like ü for example on the keyboard?

Do people use external apps or something

[delicate tiger]

Student - only university (or similar higher education like Fachhochschule)
Schüler - school

">faq keyboard" in #botchannel

[serene mountain]

🙏 @delicate tiger

[rain talon]

For phrase 10, would it be incorrect to say für wen ? Or is wen only for questions?

And I wonder if 12 can also be formulated like this

Der Freund, über den du mir gestern erzählt hast, hat sich vor kurzem scheiden lassen

I know they're not 1:1 synonym but I wonder if they express the same thing

[delicate tiger]

"...für welche die Gegner..."

[rigid heron]

Do you think if I buy this as a lunch bag to use at the staff fridge at work people will not steal my shit?

[strange leaf]

💀

[rigid heron]

[shut leaf]

[sleek notch]

Hallo

[south zenith]

German doesn’t have a progressive tense

Do you mean ich bin am (verb)

[teal cliff]

Ich bin am essen can express something like that but ... I honestly don't quite understand your question

[plain umbra]

Those kind of questions are more like language evolution type questions and aren't really suited to questions channels here.

You would be better off to use #languages as it's more of a linguistics thing.

[fervent kernel]

Befürchtigen werden vor allem gegenüber der Einwanderung von "Armutsflüchtlingen" geäußert.

I'm trying to write this sentence in active but the second part is a bit confusing
Would the sentence be correct if it's formed like this "Befürchtigen vor allem... werden..."?

[delicate tiger]

"werden" is part of the passive and no longer needed if you switch to active

[fervent kernel]

Man äußert Befürchtungen vor allem...

Right?

Thank you

[rain talon]

Up

Also, how do I know when to use "womit, worüber, ..." or "mit denen, über die, ... " ?

[plush pelican]

"am" from "to be" in English

"Ich bin am Kochen" in German

The German "am" is a preposition contraction, "an + dem"

I don't think it's related at all to the English "to be", it's just coincidental that they look alike.

But I'm not a linguist. If you really want to know, you'd need to ask a professor who has studied the history of the evolution of both languages, which you won't find in this server, as far as I know.

[plush pelican]

Well, one time is with questions:

Womit hast du die Prüfung geschrieben?
Mit einem Bleistift.

That's only the wo- compound words (colloquially, you could use "mit was", but officially that's not correct)

If you're talking relative clauses, I believe Hammer's German Grammar has a section on this

With questions:

In relative clauses, "womit/worüber" etc. are used where "was" can be used as a relative pronoun, and there is a preposition situation. Hammer's explains when you use "was" below:

[hushed dawn]

Lohn vs einkommen vs Gehalt?

[plush pelican]

Did you try googling this?

https://www.faire-integration.de/de/article/368.was-ist-lohn-was-ist-gehalt.html#:~:text=Lohn und Gehalt sind unterschiedlich,viele Stunden du gearbeitet hast.

Gehalt = salary
Lohn = (hourly) wage
Einkommen = income

[hushed dawn]

Ok und was ist mit Einkommen ? Wie ist das anders von Gehalt (salary) ?

[rain talon]

Thanks for your detailed answer but I question should have been more precise
If I want to say "The knife I've cut the tomatos with is ancient" I don't know if both sentences below are correct

Das Messer, womit ich die Tomaten geschnitten habe, ist uralt

Das Messer, mit dem ich die Tomaten geschnitten habe, ist uralt

?

[plush pelican]

"income" can be from any number of sources, but salary or wages are your income from your work as a worker

[hushed dawn]

Ahh i get it now , thank you Argus

[plush pelican]

Again, the rule was: If you can use "was" as a relative pronoun, you use "womit", and the pages I linked explain when you can use "was"

Das Messer, was ich gekauft habe, ist uralt.

That ain't right. Maybe you could do that colloquially, but definitely not on a test.

[rain talon]

I don't really get it. Was can't be used in Dativ so how would that work here ?

[plush pelican]

Hammer's lists 4 times when you can use "was". Take a look at the pages

[rain talon]

I read but I don't see how it relates to my case unfortunately

[plush pelican]

I will give corresponding examples

[rain talon]

Oh sorry I didn't see the last page!

Ok so from what I understand both are correct? 😊

[plush pelican]

what?

[rain talon]

Both sentences I wrote are correct according to the last page you screenshoted

[plush pelican]

1. neuter indefinites like "alles, etwas, nichts"
2. nominalized neuter adjectives referring to something indefinite "das Richtige, das Erste, das Beste"
3. the demonstrative "das"
4. referring back to the whole clause.

Which of these do you think "das Messer" counts as?

[plush pelican]

"das Messer" is not "etwas" or "nichts"

[rain talon]

It says most frequently, not only

[plush pelican]

It says at the start of that section,

[rain talon]

So which do you think it is cause I don't understand what you're getting to : womit, mit dem, or something else?

[plush pelican]

mit dem

[rain talon]

Okay so the excerpt I cited then

[rain talon]

Now I'm just confused 😊

[plush pelican]

don't use "womit/worin" etc. to refer back to a specific noun

only use it in 1 of the 4 times when you could use "was"

When referring back to:

1. neuter indefinites like "alles, etwas, nichts"
   Alles, wofür ich gekämpft habe, war falsch.

2. nominalized neuter adjectives referring to something indefinite "das Richtige, das Erste, das Beste"
   Das Beste, woran ich mich erinnern kann, ist der Sommer 1947.

3. the demonstrative "das"
   Ich habe das, wovon du gesprochen hast.

4. referring back to the whole clause.
   Er hat seine Prüfung bestanden, worüber ich mich freue.

[rain talon]

Thank you

[fervent kernel]

Do I have to put a comma when using "sowohl... als auch..."
For example
Megacities bestimmen aber sowohl ihre eignen Zukunft als auch die unseres Planeten.
Do I have to put a comma after "Zukunft"?

[delicate tiger]

"eignen" typo

[fervent kernel]

Thanks

[grave forge]

Hi! I have a beginner question: when we say "Ich bin [profession]", Is it better to say it without an article?
i. e.: Ich bin Kellnerin. VS _ Ich bin eine Kellnerin_. Is there any convention?

[delicate tiger]

in general no article

[grave forge]

Oh, okay thanks! Is there any reason for this? Because if I "translate" it to English and Spanish without article it sounds a little bit weird at first

[plush pelican]

All languages have their own little quirks

🤷‍♂️

[grave forge]

Okay! Danke

[serene mountain]

Which is better for 'A water is two Euro's':
Ein Wasser ist zwei Euro
Oder
Ein Wasser kostet zwei Euro

[woeful mural]

Ein Wasser ist zwei Euro
This would be the colloquial/slang way to say it

Ein Wasser kostet zwei Euro
This is the gramatically correct way to say it

[icy flax]

Alle Probleme liegen gerade brach.
Laut DWDS bedeutet es "unbestellt/unbebaut". Bedeutet es also einfach dass es kein Problem gibt, oder eher dass sie doch existieren, aber man hat sie nicht erwünscht?

[icy flax]

also, "Ding ist zwei Euro" ist nicht Umgangssprache aber Alltagssprache, oder?

[gusty silo]

Ist für mich ganz klar »keiner arbeitet an den Problemen«

[robust glade]

Die meisten Deutschen sagen "Es kostet", als Verkäufer kann man auch sagen: "Das macht 2€"

[woeful mural]

Ich hab nie zwischen Umgangssprache und Alltagssprache umterschieden

Meiner Erfahrung nach wird beides oft verwendet

Aber dann halt nur im Mündlichen

[plush pelican]

I don't believe it is

Or rather, it's hypothetical, which can also talk about the past or present

it'd be nice if German kept its tenses straighter, 😅

I don't think so?

3 forms:

1. Past subjunctive = present tense
2. Pluperfect subjunctive = past tense
3. Conditional = everything else, including also stuff in the present or past sometimes 😅

You really should get a copy of Hammer's German Grammar if you don't have one already

It's quite useful, 😄

[plush pelican]

There is, it turns out. But it's kind of rare: https://deutschegrammatik20.de/2019/08/29/leserfrage-wie-heissen-die-formen-des-zustandspassivs-mit-modalverb/

They say that the Präsens and Präteritum forms occur, but all the rest are quite rare (especially Futur 2, which they say isn't worth even learning, as even natives won't be able to build it.)

What's interesting is I didn't learn this as "Zustandspassiv mit Modalverb"

Die Geschäfte müssen geschlossen sein

I learned that as, "subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs"

at least for "müssen"

the subjektive Bedeutung is, yeah

They say in the link that

Die Geschäfte müssen geschlossen sein

is Zustandspassiv with modalverb.

but again, I learned that as "subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs"

one sec

I guess the difference is Zustandspassiv, like all Passiv, has a Partizip 2?

Peter muss krank sein. = subjektive Bedeutung
Das Geschäft muss geschlossen sein = Zustandspassiv mit Modalverb

But then how do you say a guess about the business being closed?

"The business must be closed" = I am pretty sure, but not 100%, that it is closed. 90-95% sure

DeepL seems to have trouble telling whether you mean "must" = needs to be or "must" = guess

it keeps suggesting "Das Geschäft muss geschlossen werden" = the business needs to be closed.

which is neither subjektive Bedeutung nor Zustandspassiv

As I said, that can help tell the difference some of the time. But then how do you say that you are guessing the business is closed?

Das Geschäft muss .....

Das Geschäft kann ....

It seems like there would be an overlap, where without Partizip 2, it's clearly just subjektive Bedeutung.
But with Partizip 2, it could be Zustandspassiv or subjektive Bedeutung

Peter muss krank sein. = no Partizip 2, must be subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs
Das Geschäft muss geschlossen sein. = Partizip 2, but could be Zustandspassiv mit Modalverb or subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs

Das Geschäft hat schließen müssen?

no, that's just Perfekt, it had to close 🤔

I don't think I've ever seen anything with "Das Geschäft ist geschlossen müssen."

I don't think that can be right

also, in the first one, "muss"

"müsst" is for "ihr"

[robust glade]

"Das Geschäft müsste geschlossen sein" und "Das Geschäft ist geschlossen"

[robust glade]

Oder eher "das Geschäft hat geschlossen"

[plush pelican]

But there's not just "müsste"

Peter muss krank sein.
Peter müsste krank sein.
Peter dürfte krank sein.
Peter könnte krank sein.

What about "muss", but in subjektive Bedeutung?

[robust glade]

"sein" is also a verb. Together it works

[plush pelican]

What I mean is, "müsste" is only 1 option for subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs.

What about the other options, specifically "muss"?

[robust glade]

"Peter muss krank sein" means "Peter has to be ill". "Peter müsste krank sein" means that he could be ill

[plush pelican]

Also, "kann"

[plush pelican]

You're missing my question

[plush pelican]

"The business must be closed" = I am guessing that the business is closed, and I have a high certainty that is true, but I don't know it 100%

[robust glade]

Yes

[plush pelican]

How do you say that with "muss"?

Peter muss krank sein.
Das Geschäft muss geschlossen sein.

oder?

[robust glade]

Yes

[plush pelican]

so "Das Geschäft muss geschlossen sein" = subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs?

But the website was saying it was Zustandspassiv mit Modalverb

Do you understand the problem now?

[robust glade]

Wait, i have to google whar a Modalverb is

[plush pelican]

sollen, wollen, dürfen, können, mögen

müssen

[robust glade]

Can you write the sentence as the website explained it?

[plush pelican]

https://deutschegrammatik20.de/2019/08/29/leserfrage-wie-heissen-die-formen-des-zustandspassivs-mit-modalverb/

1. In Deutschland müssen Geschäfte nach 20 Uhr geschlossen sein.

2. Es ist 21 Uhr. Die Geschäfte müssen geschlossen sein.

Welche von diesen Sätzen ist eine Vermutung, und welche ist eine Tatsache?

Ich verstehe es so, dass der zweite Satz eine Vermutung ist. Das wäre dann "subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs" und nicht Zustandspassiv mit Modalverb. Aber die Form ist diesselbe.

[robust glade]

There is just more information, they mean the same.

[plush pelican]

Beide sind Tatsachen und eben keine Vermutungen?

der zweite Satz ist nicht wie "Peter muss krank sein"?

"Peter muss krank sein" = eine Vermutung, subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs

[robust glade]

Im ersten Satz ist es ziemlich sicher, dass die Geschäfre geschlossen sind, im 2ten geht man sehr stark davon aus, dass auch sie geschlossen sind, es ist aber nur "Normalerweise" so

[plush pelican]

der zweite Satz ist also doch eine Vermutung = subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs?

Vielleicht würde es dir helfen, die Seite über "subjektive Bedeutung des Modalverbs" zu sehen

"müssen" ist eine sehr sehr sichere Vermutung, aber eben eine Vermutung

Oder, es kann sowas sein, 😅

Aber wenn man von "Zustandspassiv mit Modalverben" spricht, ist es keine Vermutung.

Das Haus ist gebaut. = Zustandspassiv.
Das Haus muss gebaut sein. = Zustandspassiv mit Modalverb (angeblich)

[hushed dawn]

the positioning of "sich" confuses me , my teacher told me that in a mainclause is "sich" written after the name given.
But this sentence is the opposite "Heute hat sich dieses Verhältnis genau umgedreht"
And what about the Nebensätze, is it any different ? can someone explain itt

[plain umbra]

So... basically I would summarise it by saying that reflexive pronoun tends to go as early as possible (not including pos 1 of a main clause). However, if there is a pronoun subject, the pronoun subject will come before the reflexive pronoun.

That's not a rule btw, but rather just a description of what usually happens.

[old roost]

can anyone give me an sentence example of schaffen präteritum shaffte and schuf?

[plain umbra]

Wir schafften es.
Wir schufen es.

Okay, just kidding. Here are some examples:
Wir schafften es, das Projekt nach Plan abzuschließen.
Wir schufen die Beihilfe, um talentierte Kinder zu unterstützen.

[hushed dawn]

understood, thank you

[hushed dawn]

buhlen um = umwerben ?

or is there some differences ?

[long whale]

Well, I feel the 1st is only used in "um jemandes Gunst buhlen", usually specifically in the context of politicians trying to entice voters, and it's not meant positively. Otherwise, it's extremely dated.

[worthy flower]

Duden = Wörterbuch?

[robust glade]

Duden=Verlag für Wörterbücher

[long whale]

To Germans, "der Duden" is what "Merriam-Webster" is to US-Americans, or "the Oxford dictionary" is to the British.

[shrewd fern]

duden is a very big brand/company that makes dictionaries and stuff

dictionary is wörterbuch

literally "book of words"

[shrewd fern]

was weißtn duden

[long whale]

Very funny. Theia, would you mind terribly not pinging me with stuff like this?

[shrewd fern]

pfft 😭 okay

[worthy flower]

danke schön

[shrewd fern]

they also have an online dictionary obv

also kein problem^^

[rose leaf]

hello, i don't understand the difference between these sentences and which one to use, can someone help?

• Auf jeden Fall werde ich morgen kommen.
• Ich werde auf jeden Fall morgen kommen.
• Ich komme auf jeden Fall morgen.

[long whale]

There is no difference. Except the 3rd version seems far more idiomatic to me.

We don't usually use the future with "werden" when a specific time ("morgen") is mentioned.

[lofty basin]

hello, I've found a new word called ''Ordnung'', what does it mean exactly and how can I use it in a sentence?
It means order but which meaning? Can someone help please?

[long whale]

Perhaps check https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/Ordnung first. If that doesn't help, feel free to ping me, okay? 🌻

[lofty basin]

Ohh yes that helped alot, thanks!

[wicked crown]

who is familiar with Anschreiben and Lebenslauf?

[dense obsidian]

Don't use meta questions. Just ask your question. 🙂

https://nometa.xyz/

[wicked crown]

it's not just one. i want to ask about opinions on my Anschreiben

[dense obsidian]

Then ask them. Many people here are familiar with "Lebenslauf" and "Anschreiben."

[long whale]

Well, then post it. 🤷

[wicked crown]

here?

would you mind if i dm you instead? dont really wanna post it here.

[dense obsidian]

Sure, why not? 🙂 You can also create a thread in #942470380692590632 if it's a more complicated one.

[wicked crown]

i'll do the second one

ty

[eager vale]

kann ich einfach angemessen durch adäquat ersetzen, um den Satz schöner zu machen?

oder klingt es zu komisch?

[pulsar sand]

Klingt adäquat 👌

[ebon vault]

Warum ist bar im diesem Satz ein Adjektiv?

[long whale]

What did you expect it to be? 🤔

[ebon vault]

It isn't a noun in english?

[long whale]

So...? English and German don't map 1:1, they are both languages in their own right. "bar" is an adjective in German (and also a preposition, albeit a rarely used one).

[ebon vault]

And why it isn't treated like a noun in the example?

[serene mountain]

Dankeschön

[serene mountain]

'Der Salat kostet wirlich sieben Euro' = The salad really costs seven Euros
Is there any reason why kostet and wirlich are swapped over compared to the English translation?

[long whale]

*wirklich - Yes. The conjugated verb must be in Pos. 2 in a main clause...

[serene mountain]

🙏 and thank you for pointing out the spelling mistake

[icy flax]

Bitte, korrigiere mich wenn ich was nicht ganz verstehe, aber ich nehme an, dass "Umgangssprache" sowas wie "slang" ist. Das bedeutet, diese Wörter sind speziell nur für eine spezifische Gruppe, zB eine Generation oder Skaters/Surfers. Wenn man sagt, dass was "Alltagssprache" ist, verstehe ich, dass ich es mit quasi jedem benutzen kann, wobei es nicht besonders schön, förmlich und "dem besten Standard" entspricht.

[woeful mural]

Ach so meinst du das

[icy flax]

Deswegen wollte ich so sehr wissen, ob wenn ich "das isr 2 Euro" sage, ältere Leute würden mein Deutsch schlecht finden, oder einfach nicht ganz "förmlich" aber es passt schon

Ist ja Alltagsdeutsch

Jeder sagt es sowieso selbsr wenn es nicht GAAAAnz korrekt ist

[woeful mural]

In dem Fall beides. Diese Konstruktion ist Teil der Umgangssprache und wird oft im Alltag verwendet

[woeful mural]

ältere Leute würden das auf jeden fall schlecht finden

aber so ist das halt. Wenn die Merken du bist kein Muttersprachler sind die standards auf einmal ganz hoch

[icy flax]

Dankeee

[plush pelican]

In the sentence, there's a preposition "in" followed by an adjective and not a noun? Where's the object of the preposition?

Is there an omitted noun? Except if that were the case, "bar" would be declined, wouldn't it?

Ich habe noch 100 Euro in barem [Geld].

[long whale]

*X Euro in barem Geld or X Euro bares Geld or X Euro Bargeld - Hmm... It occurs to me it's not the only instance of "in" followed by an undeclined adjective, although they are capitalized in "Haben Sie dieses Hemd auch in Rot?" or in the fixed expression "Dasselbe in Grün". 🤔

[plush pelican]

in barem Geld, yes

So do you think there's an omitted noun here, or why does it make sense to have preposition + adjective and that's it?

Looking at Hammer's, turns out "bar" has another interesting scenario it's used in

"bar" is one of those adjectives that, when used with "sein" and a noun, control the case of the noun, specifically making it Genitive

Seine Handlungsweise war bar aller Vernunft.

Sadly, that's the only time Hammer's mentions "bar"

[long whale]

Well, yes, it's also a preposition (2nd entry on DWDS) but I'm unsure how this is relevant in the context of your question?

[plush pelican]

preposition?

[long whale]

Sure. One requiring Genitiv, meaning "ohne".

[plush pelican]

I just meant, "here's a time when bar is used as an adjective, and it's weird"

[plush pelican]

They say it's an adjective here, and DWDS lists it as an adjective in both entries?

[long whale]

Yes, I see. Interesting.

[plush pelican]

I asked on reddit, and someone linked this: https://dict.leo.org/grammatik/deutsch/Rechtschreibung/Regeln/Gross-klein/Nominalisierung.html?lang=de#id=4.1.4.3.d

Where it's seemingly another instance of German being dumb and ignoring its own rules about Nominalisierung.

I say "another instance"; the thing I always think of is how it's "etwas Gutes, etwas Neues" but then "etwas anderes" kleingeschrieben 💢

In other words:

"bar" is being used like a noun here, except it's a "fixed expression" where it's not capitalized like a noun, for...reasons...

and it's also not declined for...reasons...

even though nominalized adjectives are supposed to still be declined...

[plush pelican]

I just love how the overall header is "words used as nouns get capitalized"
and then the specific subsection is, "except here. Here, they remain uncapitalized...for reasons..."

Btw: Turns out Hammer's does talk about this, but I missed it when searching for "bar" earlier

[random heath]

Why do I hear Germans say Alter so often when something goes south

[long whale]

Same as "Oh man!"

in English, I mean.

[plush pelican]

Is it a shortening of "Alter Schwede!"?

[random heath]

Thank you!

[robust glade]

Es hat auf jeden Fall die gleiche Bedeutung

Natürlich nur im Zusamnenhang und nicht übersetzt

[long whale]

No idea. I mean, "Alter" is like "dude" in contemporary colloquial German, so... 🤷

[mossy sphinx]

scheisse ich mache immer noch fehler in der possessivgrammatik

[copper orchid]

"Das ist die Katze, der ich die beste Bewerbung gegeben habe" Why is it der ich not die ich?

oh wait is geben immer plus dat?

[small ridge]

Yup. Cuz you're describing something you did to the cat, in this case you gave the cat a rating.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dativ

[plush pelican]

Ich gebe dir den Ball.

The person (or animal) who receives the thing being given is in dative.
The thing being given is in accusative.

"die beste Bewerbung" = Akkusativ
der = (Dativ, Feminin)

[long whale]

die Bewertung = rating; die Bewerbung = application (e.g. for a job) ;)

[robust glade]

@long whale wie kann man bestimmte Buchstaben markieren? Geht das nur auf der Pc Version?

[long whale]

No idea. Try typing 1 or 2 * before and after a word.

[delicate tiger]

test (*) test (**) test (~~) ||test|| (||)

[long whale]

test ( __ ) 😄

[hushed dawn]

er gab mir die Hand bei "X" .

usual way to say someone helped me ?

[long whale]

Not to my knowledge, no.

[fervent kernel]

test

[long whale]

I think it's just a literal translation from English? In German, I'd just find this confusing.

[fervent kernel]

test

[robust glade]

test

Aah

[fervent kernel]

Same

[dense obsidian]

That doesn't work. There is "jemandem zur Hand gehen" though.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/jmdm. zur Hand gehen

[iron rune]

I have read many times that German word order is able to have the object come before the subject, but all examples I have seen so far either use a pronoun, or have the object be a masculine noun. What if both nouns are feminine or neuter? zB : "Die Katze biss die Frau" or "Das Kaninchen biss das Mädchen" or a mixture of genders "Die Katze biss das Mädchen"? Can the object come first in any of these cases, and if so, how would you know it's the object? Thanks!

[long whale]

If you can't tell which one's the object and which one's the subject, the subject will have to come first.

Don't forget - apart from grammar, there is also always context. Plus, there's usually a pretty good reason for putting the object in Pos. 1, e.g. if there's some confusion as to who exactly got bitten: Person pointing: Den Mann hat der Hund gebissen! = This man's the one who got bitten! -> This kind of word order is not the default one, see?

Default word order means: subject either in Pos. 1 or 3, but usually before its objects.

[iron rune]

if gender doesn't make the object clear, such as with two feminine nouns, would one use the passive voice: "Die Frau wurde von der Katze gebissen" (Hope I got that right)

[long whale]

Given that a woman biting a cat would be rather unusual (putting it mildly), you wouldn't have to use Passiv. And yes, you got that right. 💐

As I said above: you need very specific, rather unusual context for putting the object before the subject at all.

[iron rune]

I wish this was expressed in the many articles I have come across; I was getting the impression that rearranging the sentance for emphasis was commonplace.

so much is stated without proper context, and misleads learners like me.

[long whale]

Yeah, but the operative word here is "emphasis" - you need a reason to say "This is the man who got bitten by the dog" instead of "The man got bitten by the dog", don't you?

Or rather: The dog bit the man.

[iron rune]

So, if given a reason to emphasize the object over the subject, when both nouns are feminin/neuter, are there any words that can specify which noun is the object, allowing it to come first in the active voice? This is the last thing I am wondering on this topic. Thanks for all your help.

[long whale]

If you feel a) special emphasis is necessary and b) you think there's a chance you might be misunderstood, you'd just use Passiv.

[iron rune]

That answers everything I have on the topic. Danke sehr!

[fervent kernel]

Saw this somewhere
Gekommen bin ich nach Deutschland.
Would this be a natural way to say it?

[long whale]

Depending on context, it might be. E.g. if someone said they originally wanted to go somewhere else, but ended up in Germany instead. It's definitely not default/normal word order, if that's what you mean.

[fervent kernel]

It was an introduction to a presentation(Mündliche Prüfung)
One student started by saying
Ich bin x. Geboren bin ich in Y und
gekommen bin ich nach Deutschland seit...

[long whale]

Meh. Looks as if they were bending over backwards to avoid beginning another sentence with "ich" - which is fine in German, definitely when introducing yourself. Also, please note "seit" doesn't work in this context! Ich lebe/bin seit X Jahren in Deutschland vs. Ich bin vor X Jahren nach Deutschland gekommen.

-> not at all natural.

[fervent kernel]

This helps thanks
I'll stick to the basics...

[serene mountain]

Instead of auf, could I use eine?

[long whale]

Instead? Just removing the preposition? No!

[serene mountain]

Why though

[long whale]

For pretty much the same reason you can't say "I feel Apfelschorle" if you want to drink one. 👀

[serene mountain]

Yeah yeah I do

So what does auf mean in this particular instance?

[long whale]

What does "like" mean in "I feel like X"?

🤷

[serene mountain]

Surely Lust though is the like part?

[delicate tiger]

"Lust auf etwas haben" is the construction, it just is

[serene mountain]

So does auf always come after Lust in every instance?

Yep this is the exact line of thought I had prior to coming here 😆

Ok, secondly if I said 'Ich habe Durst. Ich habe eine Apfelschorle.' - Is this correct in German?

[long whale]

Depends on what you're trying to say. If you mean "I'll have/I'm having an Apfelschorle" - No, definitely not. It just means "I've got an Apfelschorle", maybe in the fridge or in my backpack"

[serene mountain]

If they were connected, the eine would become a dativ to einer correct?

[serene mountain]

Yeah, the second phrase is exactly what I meant

[long whale]

apple juice mixed with carbonated mineral water = die Apfelschorle @fervent kernel

[serene mountain]

What about 'Ich habe Durst, und ich habe eine Apfelschorle.'

Or is that a non sentence?

But surely I am the subject in that instance

And therefore nominativ

Leaving the object I guess (the apple juice) being the dativ?

Yeah, what about the eine Apfelschorle?

Also, I am using this as reference to my thinking above: #questions message

[long whale]

Bitte korrigiere/korrigiert mich, wenn es falsch ist/nicht stimmt.

Mich korrigiere simply doesn't work

[serene mountain]

Grand ok

Is there like a list on what words like mit causes it to be a dativ?

[long whale]

Depends on the verb. "Mich stört es nicht, wenn du viele Fragen stellst [but maybe it does bother other people]". An imperative, however... No. Not possible.

Ah - wait, come to think of it... "Mich lass in Ruhe!" - but this really emphasizes the "mich", as in "Go bother somebody else, if you must, but do leave me alone!"

But strangely enough, I feel this wouldn't work with other verbs... 🤔 Mich stör nicht feels completely weird to me.

[serene mountain]

So just to clarify, it would be a nominativ for the apple juice?

[long whale]

No. When you have something, that something is always going to be in Akkusativ.

[serene mountain]

Ok, so I would be the nominativ and the apple juice in this instance would be the akkusativ?

[long whale]

Also, you've already got "ich", which is Nominativ. And only a couple of verbs (sein & werden) get Nominativ on both sides.

[serene mountain]

As these are two separate sentences, the apple juice would be nominativ*?

Or does it carry over between sentences?

[long whale]

And what about "ich"? 🥹

[serene mountain]

Well, it's best to clarify to make sure ahah

Thank you for the explanation. So if I did lets say 'Ich bin klein. Ich koche eine Tomate' would the tomato be an akkusativ or nominativ?

[long whale]

ich... ich... ich...! 😿

[serene mountain]

I know but I want to double check

There seems to be so many exceptions to so many rules

So despite the fact they are two separate phrases, I still use the akkusativ?

Ah ok

I understand

I thought it was just haben being the exception

Honestly, I wish this language was easier sometimes 🥲

Yeah, completely new to cases. Studied French and a bit of Italian and from memory you never had to do cases

The hardest part was just verb conjugations tbh in my opinion

I guess German one ups on French though for only have one ending for regular verbs

[long whale]

*aus gutem Grund ;)

[serene mountain]

I 100% did not use Google translate just then to understand at least half of what you said 😂

Specifically the reason, although and native

[long whale]

Use deepl.com, at least.

[serene mountain]

I'm on my phone in bed but yes I normally do use it

[plush pelican]

DeepL has an app

[round maple]

Hello! I'm in my first week of learning German so forgive me if these are incredibly basic questions

"Die first einhalten" apparently means "meet a deadline" but when each word is literally translated it comes to "comply with the period"; is this just the German way of saying "meet a deadline"?

[long whale]

first Frist - yes.

[round maple]

I ask because another word for "meet" is treffen, but that seems to be in a more social stance

Ah, autocorrect, thank you

Frist means yes?

[long whale]

The answer to this question of yours is "yes".

[round maple]

Ah, thank you!

[round maple]

This is going to be lengthy, apologies in advance

I was trying to figure out how to say "would you like to meet for breakfast", and used Google translate to do so. It went from "Würde" to "würdest du" to "möchtest du". I guess my first question would be why does it change from "würdest du gerne " to "möchest du" aside from the obvious "it's less words"?

[coral drift]

Google translate does that sometimes but both work, I personally would use möchtest du

[round maple]

It then switches from möchtest to möchten in "möchten sie gerne", then to the further "möchten sie sich treffen". Why the switch from möchtest to möchten, when the meanings respectively are "would like" and "want"? On the topic of the added "sich" the translation seems to be the same as sie (when translated), what's the reason for adding "sich" into a sentence when "sie" already addresses the other party?

[coral drift]

"Sie sich" is more formal

[round maple]

Gotcha gotcha

What is the direct translation for "zum"? It appears to be "to the", so I'm curious how it fits into "meet for breakfast"

In the case of "zum Früchstüch treffen"

And in the full sentence of "Möchten sie sich zum Früstüch treffen?"

(This is how Google translate advised me to say the sentence)

[coral drift]

Yea that’s ok
"Möchtest du dich" would be informal

[round maple]

So "Möchtest du dich zum Früstüch treffen?"

[coral drift]

Ye

[round maple]

Thank you thank you

[charred harbor]

Frühstück

[charred harbor]

There were a few errors in the original sentence

[hushed dawn]

Zugang is used for places
Zugriff is used for other things
Is this correct? what about Zutritt ?

[long whale]

I think there's considerable overlap between "Zugang" and "Zugriff", but "Zugang" is what I'd use for data, internet sites, etc. "Zugriff" is sth I mostly associate with policemen arresting people. "Kein Zutritt" is what it usually says on doors leading to rooms which aren't open to the general public. Please note other native speakers might disagree.

[hushed dawn]

I want to say craving for sweets
Verlangen nach or Biegerde nach
Which is more common or both are acceptable ?

[long whale]

Spelling: Begierde - Both would be acceptable, but I think we usually say "Gier".

[hushed dawn]

"Doch glücklicherweise gibt es gegen die trübe Winterstimmung eine ebenso einfache wie Erfolg versprechende Therapie: Licht."

What role does "wie" here play ?

[old roost]

Warte, ich will mein Hemd ___ . Ich habe es verkehrt herum getragen. what's the suitable verb here, umkehren? umdrehen? umkrempeln?

[rare jetty]

I'd say umdrehen

[long whale]

ebenso X wie Y = as X as Y

[stoic mauve]

@onyx vigil, please read the Roles section in #getting-started for info on how to join VC and more.

[delicate tiger]

reading helps

[misty gust]

does someone has a b1.1 presentation example?

for an oral exam

[long whale]

Googling in German will probably help: mündliche Prüfung B1.1 🌻

[serene mountain]

Dankeschön

[plain umbra]

Yes, please direct people to read the channel itself rather than spoonfeeding them the info.

[brave flint]

Es sieht so aus, als wenn wir alle beste Freunde wären.
My textbook says als wenn is the answer, but I thought it should be als ob.
I looked online and it said als wenn is colloquial and ob seems more formal?
Is there any other difference?

[long whale]

I'd have said the answer was definitely "ob" (and I'd also expect this would get marked in an exam...)

No, what other difference would there be?

[ruby scaffold]

Hat jemand eine Idee, wie schwierig es ist, um B1 allein zu erreichen?

Für das A1 und A2 hab ich einen offline Kurs besucht, aber das Wetter im Sommer ist total heiß und finde ich nicht online Kurse.

[long whale]

https://learngerman.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-9528 "schwierig" is relative - it's certainly do-able, if that's what you mean. 🌻

[ruby scaffold]

Yes, do-able i guess IS the word i am looking for. I thought this was a German only Channel and i didnt know the word for IT. Thank you!

Thanks for the Link, i'll Check IT Out.

[long whale]

do-able = machbar ;)

[brave flint]

just ob or als ob?

[brave flint]

im not sure either. the book wasnt very clear

[long whale]

Oops, "als ob", of course...

[brave flint]

thanks! 😊

[delicate tiger]

That person triggered the bot three times in two channels and didn't seem to stop

[plain umbra]

Okay, good to know. Please direct people to read the channel itself rather than spoonfeeding them info. Even in the case where they trigger the bot and don't seem to stop.

[hushed dawn]

sich verpflichten zu vs sich an etw halten ?

commit vs adhere to ? but both are same meaning ? or am i mistaken ?

[plush pelican]

I mean, I think in both English and German, to commit to something is stronger than to merely adhere to something

adhering to something is just "I'm fulfilling this obligation currently".
committing to something is making a specific promise of "I will definitely fulfill this obligation...even if there might be something that makes me want to stop fulfilling it."

[hushed dawn]

understood, thanks

[safe robin]

Can I say “Ich nicht will einschlafen“ oder “Ich will nicht einschlafen“

[delicate tiger]

please ask only in one channel

[robust glade]

"ich will nicht einschlafen" works

[midnight stump]

Any good apps for learning German

[pale leaf]

duolingo?

[tiny scaffold]

faq duo

[stoic mauve]

Duolingo

Duolingo is a decent resource to start with if you're a complete beginner, but it's neither efficient nor comprehensive!

What Duolingo will teach you about grammar is very limited, and none of the systems they use will help you practise much of it.
You can learn some vocabulary with it, but their method (based on the concept of spaced repetition) doesn't work for everybody, and the way Duolingo teaches is not very effective compared to the amount of time it requires from you.

So, if you find it useful, by all means keep using it, but remember not to fall for its gamification of language learning, and move past it when it stops being beneficial. Ignore the streaks.

In any case, keep in mind that Duolingo is not enough to learn a language, ever.

If you're looking for guidance or alternatives, check out >faq beginner in our #botchannel .

[tiny scaffold]

faq nicos

[stoic mauve]

Nicos

Nicos Weg is a free online program aimed at helping people learn German. It includes video, audio, text, grammar explanations, notes, vocabulary, and exercises. It also includes very useful cultural and bureaucratic information, such as how to open a bank account, while teaching you the relevant grammar and vocabulary.

It’s fairly popular and well-recommended, but keep in mind that you can’t learn a language with only one resource, even if it’s a good one!

You can find the courses here: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/overview/

You can also see various other courses for learners by dw.com here: https://www.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-2469/

[oak shuttle]

which is the proper way to say "I love you too"?

Ich lieben dich auch

Ich lieben dich zu

[long whale]

Neither. Please check

faq Präsens

[stoic mauve]

Conjugation

Präsens (Present Tense)
When you use a verb in a sentence (or clause), you have to conjugate it (change the form) to match the subject of the sentence (or clause).

For example, in English, we write I eat but he/she eats. The verb has a different ending! The concept is the same in German, except German has more endings.

The first thing you need to know in order to conjugate verbs is: which ending fits which subject? Here is a simple verb “trinken” (to drink) as an example:

trinken
ich trinke
du trinkst
er/sie/es trinkt
wir trinken
ihr trinkt
sie trinken / Sie trinken
(Note: the conjugation for sie (they) and Sie (formal you) is always the same)

Vowel/Stem Changes
There are a few variations and exceptions, but the most important is vowel changes (also called stem changes). Some verbs get a vowel change, which only affects the du and er/sie/es forms of the verb. (However, modal verbs and wissen have their own special pattern, which also has a vowel change in the ich form.)

Example: ich schlafe, du schläfst

Other Changes
There are various other differences but I can’t describe them all here, so please read these websites or use Google to find more information: https://www.vistawide.com/german/grammar/german_verbs_present_tense.htm
https://www.thoughtco.com/german-present-tense-verbs-4074838
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~deutsch/Grammatik/PresentTense/Present.html

[long whale]

If you give the verb (lieben) its proper ending, the 1st will work, the 2nd won't.

[oak shuttle]

whats the proper ending to the verb in the context provided? I assumed that was the proper ending (I'm a very new beginner, using duo)

[tiny scaffold]

Who is doing the action? It's you, so you should use the ''ich'' form. Follow the FAQ and try it out

[humble nymph]

hallo, ich habe eine frage
was ist die unterschied zwischen erschaffen und schaffen

[long whale]

erschaffen is mostly just used for god creating the world/mankind, etc. schaffen can be used for artists creating things, but is mostly used for "to manage; to make it (to somewhere/sth)" Does this help?

[shrewd fern]

i'd suggest using other methods of learning than duolingo, duolingo teaches very little, or even zero grammar and just kinda throws volcabulary at you

also, check the thing that susana got from the bot 😭

[midnight cedar]

Is it normal to be able to read at B1 level but listening seems barely A2 and writing/speaking even worse? Or this indicates something is wrong with my self study method? I am very bad at output somehow... Can I expect the rest to catch up if I keep reading and listening to stuff or do I need to somehow focus on writing and speaking? it's very hard for me to practice those on my own because I'm doing self study and don't have anyone to talk to or correct me most of the time

[long whale]

It's perfectly normal! If you think about it, this even happens in your native language, to some extent, unless you're an exceptionally gifted writer.

[midnight cedar]

This makes sense, actually. You're right that most people can read better than they can speak or write even in their mother language

[long whale]

Ehh... no. You'll never really catch up (see above). And if you want to be able to speak and/or write, then this is what you'll have to practice. You don't really need anyone to talk to (although finding a language partner is usually not all that difficult if you put in a little effort, either in #1065443550004781067 or on some other site). Talking to yourself works really well. If you run out of things to say, I recommend reading something really short, a story, a joke in German, trying to fully understand it, then imagining re-telling it to a friend in German. You'll very quickly find out where your problems are. ;)

[midnight cedar]

makes me feel a lot better

[plush pelican]

How much are you practicing each skill? Listening, reading, writing, and speaking are all separate skills. They benefit somewhat from another, but you still need to do each of them and work on each one specifically.

[midnight cedar]

Reading books is the main way I learn German and get new vocabulary for 5 or 6 hrs a day. Then I try to watch 2-3 hrs of shows or podcasts and music. Writing I do a daily journal or practice exam but not much speaking :/ other than rehearsing phrases or the exercises on Nico's Weg

How can I better practice speaking without a partner?

[plush pelican]

First off, getting your writing corrected would be good

#writing-info

or you can try reddit.com/r/WriteStreakGerman

As to speaking:

You can search for a speaking partner here, or on
reddit.com/r/LanguageExchange

OR, you can practice talking to yourself doing your daily routine. Try to describe what you're doing. Don't know a word? look it up!

[midnight cedar]

Yes this was also my thinking. I struggled too much with vocabulary to do any other sort of immersion (even children's media too hard). But now that the reading has granted me sufficient vocabulary I'm wanting to actually apply it better

I didn't try to read out loud (do most reading in library) but I think this is a good idea to try for practicing alone. Especially with written dialogue

[plain umbra]

While I don't see an issue with delaying speaking (aside from taking longer to learn it), I think if you delay listening then there's possibilities to make it harder for you to learn pronunciation. Because when we read, we develop a pronunciation of the word in our minds. If you develop the wrong pronunciation by not listening enough, you may get some bad habits that create more work later.

[humble nymph]

ja viel dank

[fervent kernel]

Dieser Bus fährt über Steinplatz
Why über and not zum?

[long whale]

"zu/m/r" = destination ;) Does this answer your question? 😄

[fervent kernel]

Yes, it does

Random question
So Steinplatz can't be the last stop, right?

[long whale]

Precisely. (That's why I went wink and smile)

[fervent kernel]

Aha
Thanks

[fervent kernel]

Is "Als führende" used as a synonym of darüber hinaus/außerdem?

[long whale]

Definitely not.

[rain talon]

I'm in Germany rn, people in shops keep asking me if I need help but I don't understand the sentence

It's something with "alles Recht"

Do you know what they might be saying?

[long whale]

Yes, I saw that in the other channel, and no, I have no idea. "[Ist] A/alles recht?" is sth waiters often ask when they want to know whether everything's all right.

[midnight cedar]

When forming the informal Imperativ I've seen both this:
Mach nichts!
and
Mache nichts!

sometimes with e sometimes without

both are right, or?

[robust glade]

I personally would just use "Mach nichts". Idk if the other sentence works, but this one is mostly used

[hushed dawn]

"Bezüglich des genauen Datums des Anfangs kommt der 20 Januar in Frage."

is this a professional way of saying that i will be free by 20 January ?

[robust glade]

It sounds good, but i dont really understand what you try to say with "Anfangs"

[long whale]

If you mean sth like "I can start working on...", I'd go for "Ich könnte die Arbeit bei Ihnen/in Ihrer Einrichtung/in Ihrem Unternehmen am 20. Januar 2025 aufnehmen"

[hushed dawn]

so they asked me about the beginning date of a praktikum

[robust glade]

Ah ok, then @long whale s version is very good

[hushed dawn]

okay, thank you

[plush pelican]

There's a rule for when you have to add the -e for the du imperative:

• Weak verbs whose stem end in -t or -d
  Bete! Rede!

• Verbs like rechnen or atmen, whose stem ends in -m or -n
  Rechne! Atme!

• Verbs ending in -eln and -ern.
  Wandere! Sammle!

• Strong verbs with a vowel change in the imperative cannot receive an -e
  Wirf! Gib! Iss!

Otherwise, it's optional whether to add -e or not

[midnight cedar]

This is a very in-depth explanation. Thanks. The grammar book I have didn't explain this at all

[long whale]

I agree, Argus went to a lot of trouble over this. However, they shortened the bit about the verbs whose stem ends in -m or -n. Unfortunately, the explanation given in the German text isn't very helpful, either, at least not to a learner. I'd recommend having a look at the individual verb conjugation in these cases.

[round maple]

Just a quick question, is it preferable to say "Die zwei Katzen" when saying "The two cats" or "Die beiden Katzen"? The app I'm using says the direct translation is "The both cats" but automatically switches it to the latter? But continues with numbers when it's 3 and up?

[sacred terrace]

"Die zwei Katzen" is the default

There are various ways to say that, same as in english. Like "The pair of cats?" "Both of these cats?" etc

[round maple]

Vielen Dank! That makes much more sense

Would "Die beiden Katzen" essentially be "Both of the cats" then?

[daring fern]

Yes

[round maple]

Does Deutch not us the possessive apostrophe, such as in "These are X's"?

"Beide Katzen sind X's"

Or would it be more appropriate to say, "Beide Katzen gehören zu X"

[daring fern]

We do use it but it's a little weird

[gusty silo]

third option: plain dative

[daring fern]

GENITIV ❤️

[gusty silo]

with either sentence, but it's more markedly colloquial with the first

[round maple]

Gotcha gotcha

[gusty silo]

So either
Beide Katzen gehören mir/dir/ihm/ihr/Michael/Anna/etc
or
Beide Katzen sind mir/dir/ihm/ihr/dem Michael/der Anna/etc.

[daring fern]

Example:

Beide Katzen sind Jakobs.
No Apostroph

Beide Katzen sind Silas'
With Apostroph

[gusty silo]

(the inclusion of the article with names depends on where you live but i think it's weltfremd not to tell learners about it)

[round maple]

Unwordly?

[daring fern]

If the word ends on s, z, x or ß in the GENITIV you use it, if not you don't

[round maple]

So very akin to how if an English word/name ends with an S, it comes after rather than before

Except in this case it's excluded if it lacks

[gusty silo]

world not word, it means out of touch

[round maple]

Sorry, Google had translated it to "unwordly" so I was mildly confused 😭

[icy flax]

Wenn man die Meinung nicht äußern will, sagt man "ich bleib lieber abseits"?

In letzter Zeit höre ich abseits irgendwie über all

[daring fern]

Eher nicht, das sagst du zum Beispiel, wenn du sagst ich bleibe abseits von xy, also nicht in der Nähe.

Abseits Hörste oft wegen EM (Kack Britten, so unverdient)

[icy flax]

A: "... und hier kommt Müller, schoss , schoß außerhalb des Strafraums uuuunndd, A B S E I T S!!!"
B: "So schaffen wir nicht zur Finale"

So, @daring fern ?

[fervent kernel]

What would be the most appropriate word or expression for the English word “like” as used in relation or comparison. I.e. “he is like him” “it’s like that time…”

[gusty silo]

wie is what we'd say there

Er ist wie er (okay, sounds extremely redundant hm 🙃) and Es ist wie damals, als...

[fervent kernel]

Ah, alles klar. Danke schön!

[unreal elbow]

hello, hilfst mir mit diese werde bitte? ist das korekt? vielen danke _/_

[plush pelican]

"da" is a subordinating conjunction, like "weil". You have to change the word order when you use it

[unreal elbow]

vielen danke fur ihnen helfen. could you show me how do i construct this 3rd sentence correctly?

[swift bough]

Da es heute heiß ist, gehe ich schwimmen.

[plush pelican]

Anfang der 1980er Jahre zog es den aus einer Entertainerfamilie stammenden Clooney ins Filmgeschäft, wo er zunächst trotz der vermittelnden Hilfe seiner Tante Rosemary nur Rollen in zweitklassigen Pilotfilmen amerikanischer Fernsehserien erhielt, die mangels Erfolgs auf eine Episode beschränkt blieben.

Is this sentence correct?

What drew Clooney into the film business? "Es"? This is the start of a new paragraph and the prior paragraph has nothing to do with it.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Clooney

[robust glade]

Yes, its correct

[plush pelican]

How is it to be understood?

It is like an impersonal thing, "Es zog den Clooney ins Filmgeschäft" = He was drawn into the film business = Clooney wurde ins Filmgeschäft gezogen?

What does the "es" stand for?

[whole portal]

"Es zog ihn dorthin" means something caused him to be drawn towards the place

Or the thing

So in this case this might be best translated with "... who came from a family of entertainers, was drawn to the film business .."

[plush pelican]

So it is kind of like a Passiversatz?

[whole portal]

Uh

[plush pelican]

Das Buch lässt sich gut lesen

Man kann das Auto reparieren

Die Miete ist zu überweisen

things where you avoid mentioning a specific subject doing the action (and thus it resembles passive), but there is no usage of "werden", there is no accusative object that has been transformed into a nominative subject, so it's not actually passive.

[whole portal]

I mean you could replace the es with an actual reason so I suppose it's similar

[plush pelican]

You can replace "Man" with an actual person

Does this "es zog ihn dorthin" kind of thing, does it happen with other verbs and an impersonal "es"?

[whole portal]

I was gonna say that I cannot think of anything else rn so I'm not sure how much this is a "thing" or just a one off thing

[plush pelican]

well, that's annoying 😅

Nothing a language learner likes more than completely arbitrary one-off situations that cannot be explained by a rule or predicted beforehand

Hammer's German Grammar does mention some usages of "impersonal es"

[whole portal]

Well the es trieb ihn is just es zog ihn again

[plush pelican]

isn't that like "push" versus "pull"?

[whole portal]

But yeah it's used to convey the vague feeling of being drawn towards something for a multitude of reasons

Hmm yes I think you can make an argument that es trieb ihn may imply being more affected by external factors to go to a place than the place itself so "it drove him towards" vs "he was drawn towards", however I think the end result is also similar enough for them to be used not that strictly

I was thinking about the "Es schreibt sich" ("Es lebt sich ganz gut hier.") case earlier but I kinda assumed the sich makes the situation more clear but it still is a weird construction if you don't know it then ig

[plain umbra]

I think the relevant one is rather (a) referring to impersonal verbs, as in the referenced section here:

[plain umbra]

Yes, reflexive is listed for this topic as its own subcategory.

[plain umbra]

In case it's useful, here are a bunch of other examples in the same general category of impersonal verbs with "es" subject.

[whole portal]

I feel like Es zieht and Es zieht mich are still notably different? The book gives it an extra paragraph too

[plain umbra]

Yes, but those are examples of the broader category of impersonal verbs with "es". The one that I replied to Argus with is the specific subcategory containing "es zieht mich".

The main point is that German uses "es" subjects a lot and there are many different variations of how that's used. Whereas in English we have a more limited usage of that.

[whole portal]

The older German thing is also true for some of these, "Es juckt mich" feels dated to me

But that might be just me

[plain umbra]

I think you misunderstood that bit. It's not saying those things are outdated. It's saying that, for example, in older German it would be "Mich friert" but that's now more often used as "Es friert mich".

And in saying that, I'm not claiming what you wrote is not true, but simply that the book isn't saying that there.

[whole portal]

Yes but I am saying that some of these "newer" forms might also be a bit dated or literary which makes them less common in everyday language, at least some - the reflexive is very common on the other hand

Being less common implying being "harder"

[plain umbra]

Oh okay, sorry, I thought you were commenting on what the book says.

[whole portal]

No problem

[lavish hamlet]

Are there any websites that can test me on what I have learned in German? I’ve been learning A1 for about a month and I was wondering if I was really absorbing what I learned

Especially on topics like irregular verbs, possessive pronouns, sample sentences for my level, stuff like those

https://deutsch-lernen.zum.de/wiki/Interaktive_Übungen

You guys think this is a good website for that? Used it for a while and it’s kinda nice

[long whale]

Hmm... It's a valid concern. But testing before the end of a level... not sure. Let me ask you: are you using any kind of flashcard system?

[lavish hamlet]

Yea, I use Anki. I’ve gathered some flashcards for verbs, adjectives, nouns and some sentences. The only thing that sucks is that I gotta live with the 40 card limit before it charges me for premium

[long whale]

And you always have the English version come up first? (Assuming your flashcards are German/English ones)

[lavish hamlet]

Mostly. There’s a few decks that have both English or German come up but the ones I’ve made always have English come up

[long whale]

All good, then. I can warmly recommend writing variations of sentences you've learnt, preferably by hand. Oh, and also, if you aren't using those already, the DW courses are free and excellent: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-9528

[plain umbra]

Here are some free worksheets and some include answers so you can use that to test yourself on specific topics: https://www.nthuleen.com/teach/grammar.html

[lavish hamlet]

Thanks! When do you think I should do a lesson or two? Everyday?

[long whale]

Can't answer that, since I don't know about your goals/reasons/time-line. 🤷

[lavish hamlet]

Hmm I should do an exercise every time I finish a lesson right? For example, after learning about imperatives, I should take a test on them right?

[lavish hamlet]

Alright. Thanks so much!

[plain umbra]

You don't have to take a test. You should practice them. Remember that typically the process is like this: you learn something, then practice it for a while, and then the test comes later after you feel familiar with the topic.

Basically a test is just a way to set yourself a deadline to learn a certain thing and then check if you learned it or if you need more practice.

[lavish hamlet]

To set a deadline? Hmm I’ve never thought of it that way

[plain umbra]

Sure. It doesn't have to be a time-based deadline. It can just be a checkpoint that when you reach a certain point or feel like you learned a certain topic well enough, you can use a test as a way to feel like you officially completed that task or see if you still need more time to work on it.

[lavish hamlet]

I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks so much too!

[dim bobcat]

is there any german term/phrase for like "tit for tat"

[plush pelican]

Have you tried looking this up in an English-German dictionary?

https://www.dict.cc/?s=tit+for+tat

[misty gust]

keine*

[south vine]

Hallo wie geht es Ihnen ?

[unreal elbow]

mir geht es gut, und du?

is this word correct? "Ich muss um nacht sie lehrbuche lesen"

[south vine]

Und dir

Nchit du

Woher kommst du ?

[unreal elbow]

oke, verstehen, vielen danke fur dein hilfe

ich komme aus Malaysia

[south vine]

ich weiß malaysia

Ich komme aus marokko

[jaunty flame]

Only questions here, guys. 🙂 you can chat in #beginner-german or #german-only