questions-2

[final marlin]

I guess that was the point they wanted to make from their statement. "Able to speak/write in a sophisticated way, so no one understands you".

[plush pelican]

In another server, there was a news article about how Armenia is applying for EU membership. I responded to this saying,

Ich frage mich, ob das ernst gemeint ist, oder nur ein Versuch, Russland zu zwingen, Armenien zuverlässiger zu unterstützen.

A native German said that the sentence construction was bad, and that the following was better:

Ich frage mich ob das ernst gemeint ist, oder nur ein Versuch ist Russland zu zwingen Armenien zuverlässiger zu unterstützen.

The thing is...DeepL wrote it exactly the way that I wrote it. Does the second sentence really sound better? Is my version worse-sounding, or even flat-out wrong?

As far as I know:

1. in two clauses with the same verb connected with a coordinating conjunction (like "oder"), you can omit the verb instead of repeating it
2. Using commas to separate off Infinitivsätze from main clauses varies: With longer Infinitivsätze, they pretty much always get separated off by a comma, and with shorter Infinitivsätze, they tend to not get separated, and they will even sometimes get "enclosed" into the verbal bracket of the main clause. But I thought the commas here were more necessary because of two separate Infinitivsätze.
3. The comma before "ob" is necessary, no? You have to separate off dependent clauses with commas.

[delicate tiger]

I like your version more

[swift bough]

imo there was no reason to remove the commas at all, however it depends on how professional you are trying to be...sometimes in German a comma can completely change the meaning of a sentence, so do be careful, but in this case that would not happen, thus if you were merely just casually texting someone this message nobody would actually care

if you were trying to write like a newspaper article then you couldn't just randomly leave out commas at your own choosing

[plain umbra]

Definitely the first comma is required.

[swift bough]

i would say also the 2nd

bc of oder

[plain umbra]

Repeating the "ist" is optional but I think it sounds weird to repeat it (as usual with elliptical constructions - they exist for a reason).

[plain umbra]

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Oder doesn't normally require a comma.

[swift bough]

perhaps it is not because of that but because of "ob" and how the verbs were at the end...idk i am not versed in comma rules, but to me the 2nd one looks pretty okay

[plain umbra]

Yeah, I think it's fine to use it, but I'm just not sure about it being required.

[swift bough]

when it comes to commas i have not learned about the rules in years so i go more by feel than anything else but you are right that it doesn't always happen bc of oder

[plain umbra]

I'm pretty sure as well, with the infinitive clauses, you have to use a comma for a clause triggered by a noun, as is the case with "Versuch" here.

At least that's how I recall learning it. The comma is optional if it's triggered by a verb but not by anything else.

[glass kernel]

I would use the comma in front of "ob". But I can't really say if it's necessary 😅

[plain umbra]

That one is 100% necessary, no question.

[glass kernel]

the comma before "Armenien" is optional, both versions are correct

oh, you were talking about the one before "oder"?

[swift bough]

yes

[plush pelican]

You mean, in other words, that the dependent clause with "ob" needs to be surrounded by commas on both sides? That's the rule as I understand it

[glass kernel]

tbh I'm not sure whether the comma there is needed or not. I think if I'd write that sentence I'd write it without the comma

[swift bough]

yes but i think if you are using "oder" you don't necessarily count that as separating itself from the ob-clause if that makes sense

[plain umbra]

Yes but in this case, the two things linked by "oder" are at the same "level", right? Like you would say, "Ich weiß nicht, ob es gut oder schlecht ist." because the gut clause and schlecht clause are at the same level. I'm questioning if that's what's happening here, therefore making it optional.

[plush pelican]

Give me your suggested version of the sentence

[plush pelican]

oh, good point

[glass kernel]

Ich frage mich, ob das ernst gemeint ist oder nur ein Versuch, Russland zu zwingen, Armenien zuverlässiger zu unterstützen.

that's how I'd write it

[plush pelican]

That makes sense

[swift bough]

tbh now that you have said this i would say the one before oder is unnecessary

[plain umbra]

Yeah, but I think there's also a stylistic usage of it, where if your sentence is a bit more complex, you might include it for readability and pacing.

[plush pelican]

It's interesting that the one before "oder" is the single comma that they left in the sentence

[swift bough]

i hate comma rules lol, im glad i just developed an intuition for it after so much exposure

[swift bough]

i can agree with this, maybe that's why it didn't seem so obvious to me until you wrote a very simplistic sentence

[glass kernel]

I think most german native speakers can't explain comma rules. at least for me it's just intuitive

[plain umbra]

Well, a lot of the ones you use in everyday language are quite simple in German. But once you get into stylistic writing like for a novel or newspaper, things can get tricky.

[plush pelican]

So you agree, though, that the 2nd "ist" can be omitted?

[swift bough]

i feel like if i was speaking i would have actually said the 2nd ist but i would agree it is optional

[glass kernel]

the second "ist" is weird to me. I wouldn't use it. if you want it there, I'd write it like this: Ich frage mich, ob das ernst gemeint ist oder ob es nur ein Versuch ist, Russland zu zwingen, Armenien zuverlässiger zu unterstützen.

[swift bough]

is it only weird bc of a comma

bc if you actually hear how Germans speak they aren't taking massive pauses for commas, they speak at a fluid, consistent pace

[glass kernel]

it's just repetitive.. like, you don't need it twice imo

[cold iris]

I find your way of writing it the best. I also think Argus' original is fine

[glass kernel]

yes, it's absolutely fine!

[swift bough]

im not native obviously but to me it feels incomplete without it, not repetitive, but that is likely my native language English's intuition kicking in where we would use "is" twice

[glass kernel]

at first I didn't even see the second "ist", I just copied the sentence and saw in the end that I didn't write that

[plain umbra]

Here's the rule about infinitive clauses depending on nouns. Hammer's doesn't have one about chained zu-infinitive clauses though unfortunately.

[plush pelican]

I always question which of the two verbs can be omitted, because IIRC very often it's the first one that gets omitted, for example:

Ich weiß, dass er mit seinem Bruder im Park gespielt und seiner Mutter in der Küche geholfen hat.

[swift bough]

that is a sentence that would sound totally wrong to omit "hat" at the end of, but repetitive to use it after "gespielt" idk this one seems more obvious to me for some reason that you only need "hat" once

and especially at the end

[glass kernel]

yeah, it needs the "hat" at the end, but not after "gespielt"

[plain umbra]

I was wondering about it too with the original sentence.

I think to me it seems like if you drop the verb from the first one, then it makes it sound as if the zu-clause is meant to be related to that clause too.

Like you need to add the ist to clearly delineate that it's a full thought.

Like if you said "Ich frage mich, ob es ernst gemeint oder nur eine Lüge ist." that would be fine, right? Or do you need the first "ist" there too?

Maybe ob-clauses sound better with a full clause coming first?

[swift bough]

that sentence once again sounds much better with just one "ist" to me and maybe only due to the fact that it is less complex

[swift bough]

I think that is situational...take for example a sentence like this "Ob wir dahingehen, haben wir noch nicht festgestellt" where it sounds perfectly natural but the reason for putting the ob-clause first is to put more emphasis on "ob" than if you had written "Wir haben noch nicht festgestellt, ob wir dahingehen"

[plush pelican]

But you see the issue, right? There, it's the second version that is left in, whereas in the other sentence, it was the first ist that was left in.

I feel like English and German tend to have opposing views on which to leave out

[plain umbra]

I'm not talking about the ob-clause being first in the sentence. I'm talking about if you have X oder Y, whether X or Y gets the verb.

[glass kernel]

interesting. here I find it irritating that the first "ist" is left out lol I think I'd write "Ich frage mich, ob es ernst gemeint ist oder nur eine Lüge"

[plain umbra]

It's not whether there's only one. It's about which part gets the verb.

[glass kernel]

but I'm also very tired (it's almost 3am), maybe someone else who's native speaking should answer, my brain is not working properly especially when I overthink stuff lol

[plain umbra]

All good.

[swift bough]

I don't disagree with putting the "ist" in the X position instead of the Y either, sounds good

but it doesn't need ist 2 times imo

[fervent kernel]

what old cities/towns to live in Germany that has old university?
place that is active and alive with shopping and pubs
(as well safe)
Would love to hear some ideas of places thank you 🌺

[plain umbra]

You can use #1033125270217048246 for those kind of questions. This channel is rather for things like grammar and vocab.

Also, please don't ask the same question in multiple channels.

@fervent kernel

[plush pelican]

@long whale What do you think about this?

[long whale]

Yours is fine, theirs isn't. sigh

[gloomy tartan]

Die Versicherung muss informiert werden and Die Versicherung gehört informiert mean the same right?

I just saw them in my grammar book and the second sentence sounds a bit strange to me. Is it 100% natural and also often used?

[long whale]

It is natural, yes, and it does mean the same thing. You'd only use the "gehört"-version in speaking, though. It's colloquial. 🌻

[gloomy tartan]

Huh... okay. Good to know:)

[golden merlin]

Actually i am nearly the only one i know, who would say "gehört..." instead of "muss". In my opinion (most younger german would agree) is the second sentence a bit starchy and formal nearly a bit juridical. So it depends on the context. If you want to sound natural, use the first one. But if you want it to sound like it is a rule or something like that, use the second one. And yes both mean the same.

[gloomy tartan]

That's awesome man! I appreciate the input!

[long whale]

Please check the last bit under 3. here: https://www.dwds.de/wb/gehören#d-1-3

[golden merlin]

Dude i am a german, i know that what i said is useable only in this exact context.

and he asked only for this context

[long whale]

I gathered that. I was just trying to point out that even though you're German, there might be things which are not quite the way you see them. And trust me, answering questions here, this happens to me, too - pretty much on a weekly basis, in fact. :)

[golden merlin]

I think this last bit of conversation showed perfectly, how language is handled differently at different ages (ohne dir/ihnen zu nahe treten zu wollen)

[plush pelican]

When it says "süddeutsch, österreichisch, umgangssprachlich", does that mean it's colloquial overall and standard in southern Germany/Austria, or that it only appears in southern Germany/Austria, where it's colloquial?

[quasi heart]

well, I live in Saxony (east germany) and I heard some people say it here, too. But I think the more to the north you go, the less you will hear it like this

[peak moat]

I've also heard it in the north (coming from lower Saxony)
Especially the first sentence 'dem gehört ein Denkzettel verpasst' but whenever I hear someone uses the other examples I perceive it as more sophisticated speech

[jade hawk]

Just out of curiosity, because I'm not at that level yet, but if I were to start reading German literature, how far can I go back before the language stops being modern (and thus easily understandable)?

[long whale]

There was a spelling reform in 1996, so, you'd find words spelled with ß you're used to seeing with ss, and some other minor changes. The book "Emil und die Detektive" was published in 1929, and I've seen it recommended as a pretty easy read here. Go back to before 1901, you'd find a lot of words being spelled very differently - if you read editions of the books published at the time. That said, books and plays from around 1770+ are still read in German schools (with adjusted spelling).

[delicate tiger]

(for learners) ~1800, we did reading groups on this server of the original Grimm fairy tales, and the natives were needed every fifth sentence because of the outdated language

[jade hawk]

I've heard about Emil but I was thinking about trying Die Unendliche Geschichte
I read B1 level texts on DW Deutsch Lernens site and I consistently can understand like 70+% of the texts (maybe even 80+%)

[long whale]

Well, no harm in trying. 🌻

[long whale]

Going by https://www.dwds.de/wb/sakra (which I'd have sworn was exclusively Southern), it means "colloquial overall", but especially common in [area].

[reef moss]

I can say with confidence that every comma is obligatory in your version (though I have slight doubts about one comma, but it is much clearer with it)

Additionally, one "ist" is stylistically so much better than the redundant two "ists"

[long whale]

Since you're here, would you mind giving your opinion on #questions-2 message as well, @reef moss?

[reef moss]

My experience is more with "muss", but I can't really weigh heavily on either side

They're both fine, and that's all the person who asked wanted to know

[brittle jacinth]

Heyy
what does this part mean?
( dem selbstreferenziellen Bezug auf sprachliche Inhalte)

wie der polnisch-amerikanische Philosoph Alfred Tarski (1901–1983) betonte, besitzen natürliche Sprachen die Eigenart, dass sie nicht zwischen dem Bezeichnen von Tatsachen (»das Buch liegt auf dem Tisch«) und dem selbstreferenziellen Bezug auf sprachliche Inhalte (»der Satz über das Buch ist wahr«) unterscheiden.

[long whale]

Nice definition of "selbstreferenziell/self-referential": If you use your brain to wonder about the way the human brain thinks - that's self-referential. -> Natural languages don't differentiate between the description of facts, and the self-referential reference to linguistic content. (In case this helps?)

[sudden tendon]

Does anyone have a straight-forward exercise for the vowels that precede the 2/3 different sounds for ch? One that lists the letters/vowels and their paired ch pronunciation? See: ich, auch, rechts

[whole portal]

what's the 3rd huh

[south zenith]

i dont think there is one

is there some secret third option

[whole portal]

I mean you can just take a few words?

Oh I think they mean k

Only in imported words yeah no rules there

[south zenith]

unless they mean like in sechs, but thats paired as chs

[whole portal]

a o u are followed by hard and the rest by soft ch, it's pretty obviously the pronounciation that is closer to the vowel before

[south zenith]

there are some diphthongs tho, like
ei and ie get a soft ch
but au gets the hard ch

[whole portal]

back of mouth open -> hard ch
back of mouth narrow -> soft ch

[whole portal]

the last one matters

because it's way easier to move your tongue/throat from a/o/u to hard ch than to soft ch

[south zenith]

ive never thought about it in terms of ergonomics

just what sound lead to which ch

[whole portal]

If you try to say Buch with soft ch or Ich with a hard ch you'll notice

You have to adjust your tongue in the back of your mouth which you normally don't have to do

[whole portal]

actually more like the middle of your mouth

somewhere; not the front :p

[south zenith]

its a sound i wasnt used to making either way so

[whole portal]

fair enough

[plush pelican]

Try DeepL

[vernal ermine]

Can we write " Ich gefallt ihm" instead of "mir gefallt es"?

[acoustic breach]

It has a different meaning

[acoustic breach]

gefallen etw/jdm (Dat.) -> to be pleasing to something/someone

The noun in Nom. would be something pleasing/likeable to the noun in Dat.

Mir gefällt es/es gefällt mir -> it is pleasing to me (I like it)

Ich gefalle ihm (this would be grammatically correct but I dont know if this sentence is used in real life) -> I am pleasing to him (he likes me)

[vernal ermine]

More often I see Mir gefällt es instead of Es gefällt mir. Why is it so?

[plush pelican]

German doesn't need the subject to be in position 1 like it is in English.

The subject is often in position 1, but that's not necessary.

Position 1 is the "topic" or focus of the sentence. If you want to focus on something, you put it in position 1. For example:

Hast du deinen Hund mitgebracht?
Did you bring your dog with you?

Meinen Hund habe ich nicht mitgebracht, aber ich habe Bilder von ihm, falls du sie sehen möchtest.
I haven't brought my dog with me, but I do have pictures of him, if you'd like to look at them.

So in "Mir gefällt es", Germans are focusing on themselves in the sentence, because the sentence is, after all, about what they like, so they sort of are the focus anyway, even if grammatically speaking they're not the subject

[vernal ermine]

I have another question bro. I can't able to understand what is the actual difference between sollen und müssen in German?

[balmy axle]

sollen = should
müssen = must

"sollen" can also mean "ought "

[vernal ermine]

I didn't understand difference in it's usage. In Englisch, I think both have same usage.

[balmy axle]

Should ≠ must
Must is way stronger than should. Should is more of a recommendation while saying must implies something obligatory

A dictionary may help you here

[vernal ermine]

Do you have some own sentences with sollen und wollen?

[balmy axle]

You mean examples? Yes I'll give you some

[vernal ermine]

Yes🙂

[balmy axle]

Du sollst schlafen gehen.
You should go to sleep.

Du musst schlafen gehen.
You must go to sleep.

You want more?

[vernal ermine]

Both looks similar.

[balmy axle]

Okay look

When saying: Du sollst schlafen gehen

The person that exclaims the sentence tells the recipient that it would be advisable to go to sleep but they dont have to if they dont feel like it

You should go to sleep = I think it would be a good idea to go to sleep but it's up to you if you do

You must go to sleep = I am commanding you to go to sleep and you have no choice

Is that understandable?

[vernal ermine]

Very good 👍

@balmy axle please tell when a doctor is advising( you are sick in this case) that Sie _______ nicht zur Arbeit gehen. What you will use here? ( sollen, müssen, dürfen)

[balmy axle]

"dürfen"

Sie dürfen nicht zur Arbeit gehen

[vernal ermine]

Why?

[balmy axle]

Okay that's gonna be complicated to explain

I have classes now I will explain later sorry!

[vernal ermine]

Okay, Vielen Dank ❤

[acoustic breach]

I can only explain why müssen is not correct

In English: You must not do that -> you are not allowed to do that
But in German: du musst das nicht tun -> you don't have to do that

Du musst nicht zur Arbeit gehen -> you don't have to go to work (≠ you must not go to work)

[balmy axle]

Thank you

[vernal ermine]

Gefällt er dir jeans?

Is this correct?

[long whale]

No. Why did you put in "er"? It must be removed. "Jeans" is the subject, and the verb must be conjugated according to the subject -> gefällt is the wrong form.

[vernal ermine]

I heard in an audio.

[vernal ermine]

How gefällt is wrong?

[plush pelican]

"Jeans" is plural

Actually, wait... Can it also be singular?

[long whale]

Not if you use it without any article whatsoever, no. It's like saying "Do you like apples?" vs. Do you like apple?

But in principle, sure.

[plush pelican]

"Do you like apple?" I think would be understood as "Do you like apple[-flavor]?"

🤔

[long whale]

Fine. 😄 I meant the fruit, though. 🍎

[plush pelican]

Or, you could be asking about the company. 😄

[vernal ermine]

https://en.pons.com/translate/german-english/Jeans

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/apple-apple-computer-the-personal-computer-pc-logo-gif-17591117

[vernal ermine]

There is also feminine gender.

[plush pelican]

She's saying it needs to have an article if it's singular.

[vernal ermine]

Sounds new to me.

[vernal ermine]

If you consider, if I tell " Gefällt dir Apfel? How Apfel can be plural and actually Äpfel is the plural.

[long whale]

The plural of "die Jeans" is the same: die Jeans. So, it's like asking "Do you like the way books look?" (no article for "books", and plural because you're talking in general, so, the verb is also in plural: "look") vs. "Do you like the way this book looks?" (talking about 1 particular book -> you use the article, and the verb also changes to singular: looks)

-> You have to decide whether you want to ask "Do you like the way jeans (plural) look (in general)?" -> the verb "gefallen" must be conjugated to 3rd person plural. Or, do you want to ask "Do you like this [pair of] jeans?" -> You must use the article for "Jeans", and the verb "gefallen" can stay in singular.

[long whale]

Gefällt dir Apfel? would never work.

[vernal ermine]

👍

[vernal ermine]

Hier does er need to be omitted?

[long whale]

If this is what you're referring to, yes. I said so. "er" must be removed.

[vernal ermine]

I have another question.
Das Leben in USA ist anders als in Deutschland. How anders and also als is coming here? @long whale

[long whale]

als = than. It basically works the same way as if you were saying "Life in the US is cheaper/different than in Germany", except "anders/different" can't be put into comparative: "Das Leben in den USA ist billiger/anders als in Deutschland"

[vernal ermine]

Why we add "s" to ander ?

Normally in comparative adjective gets a change but why it is not applying to ander?

[long whale]

It's an exception. The adverb adds the -s. Adverb: anders vs. Adjective: ander-

[long whale]

For the same reason you can't say differenter

If you want to emphasize, as in "really different", "totally different", you could use "ganz anders".

[vernal ermine]

Is there any other exception also?

[steady mountain]

Is grammaticly correct to say "Sie sagte sie liebe lesen"

[long whale]

There are several, yes. hoch vs. hoh-, heute vs. heutig-, bald vs. baldig, gestern vs. gestrig- are the ones I can think of right now.

[vernal ermine]

Can we write mehr ander also?

[long whale]

It's... awkward, at best (although you'll certainly hear it in spoken German). For a 100% correct version, I'd go for "Sie sagte**,** sie liebe es zu lesen" (comma is non-optional)

[long whale]

No. The comparative with "mehr" does not work in German.

[steady mountain]

"Johanna sagte sie lese fast uberall, wo sie ist: Im Bus in der Schule, abends im Bett. Sie findet viele Bucher gut und lese fast alles, was sie findet" is this alr?

[long whale]

Ehh - you can't switch between K1 and Indikativ at will. Also, I said: the comma after "sagte" is not optional

[vernal ermine]

In USA essen wir viel mehr Fleisch als in Deutschland. Why we have both viel and mehr? @long whale is it correct to use more than 1 ?

[glass kernel]

It means "much more"

[steady mountain]

Tysm for your help, really greatfull for it

[acoustic breach]

You can use "viel" before a comperative (mehr)

Mehr Fleisch: more meat
Viel mehr Fleisch: much more meat

And also, in den* USA

[vernal ermine]

How it differs in meaning?

[acoustic breach]

Ich habe mehr Geld als du: maybe I only have 0.5 Euro more than you, or 1000 Euro.

Ich habe viel mehr Geld als du: a looot more, maybe 1000 Euro

[vernal ermine]

I Understand better.

[steady mountain]

do you say "er lese" or "er liest"

[acoustic breach]

2nd is normal present tense. 1st one is Konjunktiv 1

[steady mountain]

TYY

[long whale]

1st is Konjunktiv 1, which is exclusively used for reported speech: He said/claimed he was reading a book = Er sagte, er lese ein Buch. 2nd is Indikativ, i.e. the "normal" tense: he reads = er liest. Please note K1 is usually only used in very formal text, news reports, official communication.

If you check German verb tenses on verbformen.de, you'll see some of the verbs in your original sentence are in K1, others are in Indikativ. This is not possible. It's like saying "She said she read everywhere, even when she is on the bus"

[steady mountain]

I need K1 since i have in 2 days big exam that i need to pass to get B1 level officaly

[acoustic breach]

You learned K1 in B1?

[steady mountain]

ye and more

im just tryna pass this exam man

its 3h long

[acoustic breach]

Sorry I may sound ignorant. Did you mix up with Konjunktiv 2?

[steady mountain]

We learn that to, but im tryna use easier stuff that i wont mess up

[steady mountain]

Nah nw man

[vernal ermine]

I would like to know about this @long whale

[long whale]

Indikativ bolded, K1 underlined "Johanna sagte, sie lese fast überall, wo sie ist: Im Bus, in der Schule, abends im Bett. Sie findet viele Bücher gut und lese fast alles, was sie findet"

-> you need to change the bolded forms to K1

[acoustic breach]

"Bücher" with Umlaut, right?

[long whale]

About what?

[steady mountain]

wo sie sind?

[long whale]

No. Guessing verb forms is an incredibly bad idea. Check verbformen.de 🌻

[steady mountain]

Tyy

[vernal ermine]

Difference between sollen, müssen und dürfen. I recently did an exercise got everything wrong.

[long whale]

1a Du sollst Vokabeln lernen = you're supposed to learn vocab (a teacher or parent or policeman says this to remind you, or a friend tells you what a teacher or parent or policeman said) - 1b Du solltest Vokabeln lernen = it's a good idea if you learn vocab = friendly and polite advice 2 Du musst Vokabeln lernen = you must do this (or you will fail the exam/the course!) 2a Du musst keine Vokabeln lernen, wenn du müde bist (müssen + negation: nicht/kein-) = Poor you! You don't have to learn vocab if you are tired 3a Du darfst spielen = you are allowed to play, you may play, you can play (parents or teachers giving you permission) 3b Du darfst nicht fernsehen, wenn du Kopfschmerzen hast = You must not watch TV when you have a headache, you have no permission, you may not, you can not, you are not allowed to do this!

[vernal ermine]

Does the usage of sollen and müssen is mostly based on context?

[gaunt heart]

Why is “Nach hause“ used for going home and uses Nach, but “Zur schule“ uses Zur when it means the same thing, just a different location?

I feel it should be “Zum hause”

[pure crescent]

The difference is that the words have different meaning. Which Austrianboy explained already. What did you not understand about the explanation? Do you not understand the difference between should/must either? Maybe you can look them up in a dictionary for your native language. Did you do that? Did you understand that?

[vernal ermine]

Consider an exercise. Der Lehrer sagt that du _____ Deutsch lernen ( sollen/ müssen) . We don't know the context here. What you will put?

[long whale]

"nach Hause" (towards home) and "zu Hause" (at home; in my house; in the place I'm from) are basically linguistic relics. (Also, think of English: why can you say "Honey, I'm home!", but not "Honey, I'm work/school!"? ;) )

[pure crescent]

Yup, it depends on the context because the meaning is different. (I think this is true for everything in la guage :D) Either the teacher is gently urging you to study more, or harshly ordering you. Both are possible here. 🤔 Do you have exercises like that to fill out?

[vernal ermine]

Yes 🙂

[old roost]

I always thought mithalten means keep up physically and mitkommen keep up metaphorically, for example "Sie rennen zu schnell. Ich kann nicht mit ihnen mithalten" and "Du erklärst zu schnell, ich kann nicht mit dir mitkommen".
But I found a keep up sentence that's not physically but use mitkommen like "mein Gedicht kann auf keinen Fall mit ihnen mithalten". Can anyone explain what's exactly the difference of keep up between "mithalten" and "mitkommen"?

[balmy axle]

Okay so

"mithalten" is physically AND mentally

"I cannot keep up with your pace"

Ich kann bei deiner Geschwindigkeit nicht mithalten

and "mitkommen" is just physically. It doesn't have the same meaning as "mithalten" at all though. For example:

Du kommst mit mir mit!

You're coming with me!

[old roost]

so keep up doesn't fit the meaning of mitkommen?

[balmy axle]

No

[old roost]

oh, danke

[balmy axle]

Gerne ;)

[pure crescent]

keep up does fit the meaning of mitkommen in the example you named, i.e., the overly rushed explanation that you struggle to follow.

It is definitely not solely physically. Maybe that's how they use it in Austria, but not in Standard German.

[icy junco]

Difference between ein and eine
And

Mein meine

[timber sandal]

ein = maskulin eine = feminine

same for mein and meine

[icy junco]

Ohhhh

[icy junco]

Thank youuuu soooo muchhhhy

[timber sandal]

your welcome

[plush pelican]

nouns have gender in German

this changes how you put a definite or indefinite article in front of them

[icy junco]

Woah

What's that

[plush pelican]

definite article = the

indefinite article = a/an

der Hund = the dog

die Kuh = the cow

ein Hund = a dog
eine Kuh = a cow

How are you learning German? Unless it's Duolingo, this should be one of the basic things explained to you

https://youtu.be/0ihXocUH_UY?si=SmXrVpxZmQmMc4RK

[last valley]

dass Biologie und Chemie seine Lieblingsfächer waren

ist das richtihg?

[swift bough]

yes but it is not a complete sentence

[acoustic basin]

.wtf hehehe

[gloomy tartan]

Für den jungen Polizisten ist körperliche Fitness essentiell
Ich habe gerade diesen Satz gelesen. Ist er nicht falsch? Soll es nicht *Für **die *jungen Polizisten ist körperliche Fitness essentiell sein?

[plush pelican]

Weak nouns/N-Deklination

[gloomy tartan]

Ah Jesus, I assumed that Polizisten had to be plural. Thanks man 😅

[limpid trout]

what is the equivalent of a sarcastic "nicely done" in german?

[woven glen]

"Gut gemacht." but it's all about how you say it..

[long whale]

I'd say "ganze Arbeit leisten" might be a good equivalent. However, you'd have to make it a full sentence. E.g. "Du hast [wirklich] ganze Arbeit geleistet"

[gaunt heart]

When should i use “das” for “this”? I thought das meant that, and now im seeings it used as “this” a lot. Kann ich eine einfache Erklärung bekommen?

I thought that “dies/diese/dieser” meant “this”

[vernal ermine]

Woher weißt du das? Why we use " Woher" here?

[plush pelican]

Woher = from where

Woher weißt du das? = From where do you know this?

[vernal ermine]

Why we can't use "wie" here?

[plush pelican]

🤔

🤷‍♂️ I'm not sure, 😅

[fervent kernel]

ayoooo

[vernal ermine]

Another sentence also I have read. Woher kennst du John?

[plush pelican]

From where do you know John?

[vernal ermine]

Does the meaning differs when we use " Wie" ?

[plush pelican]

I'm not sure you can use "wie", and I'm not sure why

[vernal ermine]

I would also like to know which situation we have to use "Woher".

[plush pelican]

The more you ask, the less I feel I know about this

Maybe a native speaker can help...

[charred harbor]

Wie is like in which/what sort of manner

Woher is like from what basis

[swift bough]

It honestly doesn't make that big of a difference on the whole, you will still find out the information you need with either question word.

Sorry if you had not read that ping...I am realizing after thinking longer about it that the difference in meaning is so small, it is mostly irrelevant.

Because for example, if you were with your coworker outside of work, and someone who didn't know you were coworkers asked either "Woher kennt ihr euch" or "Wie kennt ihr euch" it means pretty much the exact same thing. Because in both instances, you are asking about the origin of meeting someone.

To both questions an acceptable answer is "[Wir kennen uns] von der Arbeit"

[swift bough]

Btw, you definitely can also use "wie" in this sentence, though I would prefer woher for some reason

[plain umbra]

I guess because woher simply asks the source of the info but wie kinda questions your ability to know it which is contextually a bit off.

[swift bough]

I say that now but, my speaking might contradict that in actuality....lol, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't sound weird with wie though.

I feel like the times when I use wie for that are usually the times when it is combined with "können" like when I exclaim "wie kannst du das wissen?" and in that case I think woher doesn't even make sense anyway

[swift bough]

I would agree with that, and I think using wie could be a bit more colloquial, thus making it sound not all too weird as I have heard it before

Either way, nobody would give you a funny look for using either version of the question

[long whale]

@swift bough Well, the question would probably still be understood - although... I think knowing it's "How do you know John?" would help a lot. Otherwise, I might just go "Huh?" It's just totally unidiomatic. Or, I might think the person asking me had forgotten to add in "gut" and wanted to know how well I know John. 🤷 @plush pelican

[plush pelican]

In other words: "Woher" is strongly preferred to "Wie"

[long whale]

I'd... I think it basically depends on whether the other person speaks English well enough to translate it back. Like... Wouldn't you feel a question like "Which way do you know John?" is basically gibberish?

[plush pelican]

I'm just trying to clarify for Jack

[plush pelican]

@vernal ermine

[long whale]

German does have words for "this/that". It's just that we don't really use them, except in rather formal written German. Otherwise, to us, "this/that" is simply "der/die/das", often accompanied by pointing and or "da", as in "das da" (that one [over] there). 🌻

[vernal ermine]

I didn't get your point.

[plush pelican]

Use "Woher", probably don't use "Wie"

[vernal ermine]

Why?

[plush pelican]

The native said so 😄

[long whale]

Wie kennst du John? -> Woher kennst du John?

[vernal ermine]

For what reason, I have to use woher?

[swift bough]

Maybe so, but personally I don't think there would ever be any misunderstanding because there is always context to consider 🤷‍♂️

I even said myself before though, that for some reason I preferred woher intuitively, it's what I would have used, but I don't see a major issue with wie when you have context, idiomatic or not

Of course without context, yeah, it's not as ambiguous, I agree

I hadn't thought of that while writing my answer

[gaunt heart]

thanks!

[charred fog]

are the abbreviations mr and mrs used in german? ive seen them in multiple books but they were either translations from english or took place in english speaking countries. in those cases, would you read it out loud like mister/misses or herr(n)/frau?

[near heart]

Hallo, Leute. Was ist der Unterschied zwischen "biegen" und "verbiegen"?

[long whale]

No, they aren't used in German. Yes, you'd read them out the way you would in English if you were reading out loud.

[long whale]

"to bend" vs. "to bend out of shape", I'd say.

[near heart]

Danke!

@long whale Könntest du bitte mir nochmal helfen? Ich habe heute einen Text gelesen und diesen Satz endeckt.
Jede einzelne Blüte wird zu einer Banane, einem "Finger".
Ich habe eine Frage. Kann man "zu" auslassen und "Banane" und "Finger" in Nom. benutzen?

So: Jede einzelne Blüte wird eine Banane, ein "Finger".

[long whale]

I get why you'd ask that. It sounds strange to me, though. I think it's rather like saying "Every blossom turns a banana" instead of "... turns/changes into a banana"? You could say "Aus jeder einzelnen Blüte wird eine Banane, ein 'Finger'." if you wanted, though.

[near heart]

Ach so. Ok, i got it. Vielen Dank!

[long whale]

#questions-2 message is the best answer you will get, I think.

[fervent kernel]

Hallo, jetzt versuche ich den Satz "Are Germans superstitious?" in der deutschen Sprache zu übersetzen. Also ist der Satz "Sind Deutsche abergläubisch?" richtig oder ist es richtig, "Sind die Deutschen abergläubisch" zu sagen?

[long whale]

Both are correct. (Germans vs. the Germans)

[fervent kernel]

Vielen Dank!

[vernal ermine]

So, do you feel there is a difference in meaning?

[acoustic breach]

After reading the discussion here: I think the point is not whether it means the same. It's just "woher" is used in this situation

In a language I know of, when asking for a person's name, the correct way of saying is "who is your name". You could still say "what is your name" in that language, people would understand, no difference in meaning. You could ask why it is so, but there would be no answer explaining why your suggestion wouldnt be ideal

So no matter how much explanation is given, the fact still remains that "woher" is more idiomatic.

Any explanation given would be based on how people use the language, and not the other way round, because many parts of a language is not built on logic like math

[vernal ermine]

@acoustic breach I didn't understand what you mean by idiomatic?

[acoustic breach]

Idiomatic means it sounds natural

Example:

I want to be rich
Vs
I want that I am rich

The second sentence is grammatically correct (i think) but sounds weird

[vernal ermine]

Before I thought was like.
|
Woher kennst du John? From which place or From which point , do you know John
vs
Wie kennst du John?
How / By what means(ways) / generally asking every possible information - do you know John?

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank ❤

I have another question

Es waren viele Leute im Park.
Here why waren is coming instead of war?

[signal cipher]

I think woher is logical. From where you know John? school? work? old town?

[glass hawk]

Whole image is about this construction, with the highlight specifically addressing the conjugation. 🙂

[vernal ermine]

Why we are using fake subject?

[signal cipher]

There are a lot of people.
A lot of people are there.

You can search about dummy subject topic.

It’s hard to do that.

[plush pelican]

Remember the rule of "Alt vor Neu"?

Older, less important information gets put towards the beginning of the sentence.
Newer, more important information gets put towards the end of the sentence.

If you move the subject from position 1 towards the end of the sentence, you are saying that it is newer/more important.

But because the conjugated verb must be in position 2, that means something must then be in position 1. So you use "es" as a fake subject, just to fill that spot to make sure the verb is still in position 2.

[wild dagger]

hey guys. what websites do you use for reading super simple texts in German? I know maybe up to 500 German words but have a hard time reading full sentences, need more practice for A1

[leaden temple]

i've been using duolingo and quizlet to learn, but if i need a quick translation i google it or use deepl translator

[rare jetty]

Maybe you could ask ChatGPT to produce a short story or a dialogue for you containing easy sentences and A1-A2 vocabulary

[plain umbra]

https://german.net/reading/

[vernal ermine]

Does the word 'es' has any meaning here?

[wild dagger]

this sounds like a plan. actually a great idea, I could ask it to produce a text of a specific length and make a list of all words with a translation

[wild dagger]

thank you!

yes, using chatgpt is a great idea, I'm doing it now. super helpful and flexible

[plush pelican]

When it is being used as a dummy subject, no, it has no meaning, and therefore if something else is in position 1, you don't need the "es". So for example:

Es saß eine alte Frau am Fenster (dummy subject "es", real subject "eine alte Frau")
Am Fenster saß eine alte Frau ("eine alte Frau" is still the subject, something else is in position 1, so "es" simply disappears from the sentence entirely).

But sometimes, "es" does have a real meaning, and in those situations, you have to keep it in the sentence. For example, "es gibt":

Es gibt einen Hund im Park. ("es" is the subject, there is no other subject in this sentence)
Im Park gibt es einen Hund. ("es" is still the subject, something else is in position 1, so "es" gets moved to after the verb.)

[plain umbra]

Just keep in mind that although it's good for generating a random text, it's not good for explaining grammar or vocab or correcting text.

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank ❤🙂

@plush pelican

[versed wasp]

Meiner Ansicht nach gibt es einige Maßnahmen zum Wohlfinden und zum gesunden Leben und ziemlich Yoga machen oder ausreichenden Schlaf haben. Man könnte auch eine Diät halten. Beispielsweise könnte man Heilfasten halten, das Muslime jährlich für einen Monat folgen. der Verzicht auf Alkohol wirkt sich enorm positiv, vor allem bei jungen Menschen. Das Selbstvertrauen könnte heilende Auswirkungen auf ihre Psyche haben, insbesondere wenn man mit Freunden oder der Partner*in praktiziert. Die Menschen im Westen, in den USA oder in Europa, ungeachtet ihres Alters gehen sehr gerne an der frischen Luft spazieren.

könnte jemand bitte diesen Absatz korrigieren?

[balmy axle]

Ok warte kurz

Ist es Hausübung oder brauchst du es für etwas anderes?

@versed wasp I need to know if this is for homework

[plush pelican]

"In my estimation there are some measures for well-being and for healthy living and quite yoga making or sufficient sleep having."

Is that the sentence you were trying to write? Because that's...not a great sentence, sorry to say.

[marsh meteor]

I don't know if anyone knows this song by Vera Lynn but its called Auf Wiederseh'n why is there an ' instead of an e? Is there any reason for it or just for looks?

[delicate tiger]

to make the syllables fit

[balmy axle]

Ich kann dir den Text nicht geben wenn ich nicht weiß ob dus für Hausübung brauchst oder nicht

[whole portal]

Leute, die 'Hausübung' sagen, hatten nie Kontrolle über ihr Leben.

[pure crescent]

Didn't Susana already give you a few pointers how to improve the text? 😅 I don't really see where you put them in, maybe you wanna start with that?

[brittle jacinth]

Hey
why is aufgrund used in this sentence?
Aufgrund Ihres langen Arbeitsweges verbringen Sie viel Zeit in der Bahn
I've read that aufgrund is mostly used for motivations. Isn't infolge more sensible here?

[signal cipher]

Unterweg
Arbeitsweg

What are these? Can we create one by ourselves by using -weg?

[long whale]

Unterweg is not a word (nor is unterweg) Maybe you meant unterwegs, which depending on context means something like "on my/the way", or "on the road", or "travelling" or simply "not at home"? And no, what you said about prefixed verbs in one of your posts in #942470380692590632, i.e. you can't just 'make your own', Lego-style, is valid for other kinds of German words as well. 🍪

[signal cipher]

Danke schön

[wintry ravine]

Hallo, Leute! können die Redewendungen Reihenfolge im Satz ändern?

[whole portal]

Hast du ein Beispiel

[wintry ravine]

"es ist gut, dass es noch viele Tieren auf der Welt gibt"

[whole portal]

🤔

[wintry ravine]

Redewendung in diesem Fall ist "Es gibt etw."

[whole portal]

Inwiefern ist das eine Redewendung?

Welt ist feminin

(Und man sagt eher auf als in)

[wintry ravine]

ich habe schon in #beginner-german dieses Thema besprochen

[wintry ravine]

danke für die Korrektur

[wintry ravine]

hahahaha..es ist nicht?

[whole portal]

Eine Redewendung ist eine häufige, feste Wortverbindung, deren Bedeutung in der Regel nicht direkt aus ihren Einzelteilen hervorgeht.

[wintry ravine]

Set Phrase?

[whole portal]

Sowas wie ein Elefant im Porzellanladen.

[wintry ravine]

das heißt, mein Bsp. war richtig?

'Es ist gut, dass es nur schwarzen Tee gibt"

[whole portal]

Bis auf dass Es groß geschrieben werden muss ist das hier richtig

[whole portal]

Ja das passt so

[wintry ravine]

"es" - meinte ich das "Ereignis"

oder sowas

eine Situation

[distant haven]

hi all, what have I missed here: I thought "den gekochten Kartoffeln" is plural so it would go with "werden" instead of correct answer "wird"

[long whale]

It is plural, but is it the subject? If not, what is the subject? ;)

Or, what case is a subject in?

[reef phoenix]

weiss jemand von plattformen wo man deutschen serien und filme kostenlos anschauen kann?

[distant haven]

i dun know I think it is missing the subject in the active sentence already I use "machen" as a clue to write the Passiv

[long whale]

ARD Mediathek, resp. ZDF Mediathek, resp. Arte Mediathek

[reef phoenix]

danke vielmals

[long whale]

There is a subject, but a subject is never a prepositional phrase or prepositional object.

[deft stone]

Wenn du dich halbwegs gut mit Computern auskennst, dann schau dir mal onlinetvrecorder.com an. Dort kannst du für fast alle Privatsender Aufnahmen programmieren und das Programm dann später herunterladen. Es ist ein legales Angebot, auch wenn es die Privatsender oft nicht mögen. Der Download funktioniert entweder direkt oder über Drittserver, und man braucht dann seinen Benutzernamen und sein Passwort um die Datei auspacken zu dürfen. Leider ist die Webseite sehr überladen mit Werbung.

[reef phoenix]

werbung juckt mich nicht, ich habe brave als browserding

aber danke!

[deft stone]

Alternativ ist die Mediathek natürlich super. Ich kann mediathekviewweb.de mit einem deutschen VPN/deutschem Tor-Exit-Node sehr empfehlen, dort gibt es alle Links direkt zum herunterladen.

Das ist auch ein legales Angebot, die Webseite wird von einem netten Menschen betrieben und verlinkt nur Sachen, die sowieso umsonst auf den öffentlichen Seiten verfügbar sein dürfen.

[reef phoenix]

ok ich schaue es mir an

[deft stone]

Such dort mal nach "Sloborn", das ist eine deutsche Serie, die teilweise ganz gut ist.

[reef phoenix]

sløborn ne?

[deft stone]

Ja, das o kann ich nicht so einfach tippen 🙂

[reef phoenix]

die geht nicht, ist nicht verfügbar

[deft stone]

Bei mir geht es, vielleicht brauchst du ein deutsches VPN.

[reef phoenix]

ja, ich habe keine vpns

[deft stone]

Es gibt Anleitungen, wie man bei "Tor" (The Onion Router, Open Source und kostenlos) deutsche Server als Exitknoten verwenden kann.

Damit hast du einen Browser, der zumindest von seiner Netzwerkadresse her wie bei einem deutschen Nutzer aussieht.

[reef phoenix]

ne es wird zu kompliziert jetzt, aber danke nochmal für deine hilfe

[deft stone]

Kann ich verstehen. Es rennt ja nicht weg! (The solution won't go away, take your time)

[plush pelican]

Pro-tip: the subject is in nominative case. What nouns in the sentence are in nominative case?

Pro-tip: Unless the verb is a copula verb (sein, werden, bleiben), there will only be 1 noun in nominative case in the sentence, which must be the subject

[limpid trout]

what's the best word for space? like, "outer space" "stars and stuff" "where rockets go" space?

or rather- most common word

it's hard to gather from my double dictionary

[long whale]

You'll have to scroll down a little, but it's clearly marked (cosmos): https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/englisch-deutsch/space

[limpid trout]

is there a reason "space program" is just listed as "Raumfahrtprogramm"?

and not "Weltraumfahrtprogramm" or something?

[regal heath]

Raum is just the short form of Weltraum in this case

[plush pelican]

I've also seen Weltall or All, though, as it says in the (cosmos) definition.

Wikipedia says: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universum#Herkunft_der_Bezeichnungen

Während das Universum bzw. Weltall alles umfasst, ist mit dem Begriff Weltraum nur der Raum außerhalb der Erdatmosphäre und außerhalb der Atmosphären anderer Himmelskörper gemeint, in dem nahezu ein Vakuum herrscht. Umgangssprachlich wird „Weltall“ oder „All“ aber auch mit der Bedeutung von „Weltraum“ verwendet.

[long whale]

I'm sure you have. But why ping me? 😄

[plush pelican]

Because it's confusing as shit

Even after having looked into it, it's not clear if one or the other should be used

[long whale]

The definition you posted sounds quite clear to me. Then again, I know shit-all about astronomy, so, you probably find it confusing for reasons I can't even fathom. 🤷

[plush pelican]

According to the definition, "Weltall = universe". But then colloquially, it's also used to mean "space", which is weird and confusing

and then both get abbreviated to All or Raum

leading to fun entries like this:

It sounds like colloquially even Germans mix them up

if Weltall = universe, then he clearly wasn't the first human in the universe

[long whale]

Presumably, that's because the overwhelming majority of people are like me: happily going about their/our daily lives, completely oblivious of their/our deep, dark ignorance. ;)

[whole portal]

Yeah I'd agree that the author just mixed it up

But I'd also agree with All meaning space so I guess the inconsistent usage has caused conflicting consistencies .-.

[whole portal]

Very nice alliteration .-.

At the beginning of Star Trek in German they say "Der Weltraum. Unendliche Weiten."

[limpid trout]

i think i'm understanding this now- danke

[west pond]

what does that "raus" at the end add to the meaning?

[warped oriole]

For me it's like this:
Weltraum=Weltall=All=Space
I use Universum for "the everything". The other words only for space.
I think no one would say that we humans (on earth) exist "im Weltall" but we would say humans exist "im Universum". Also we don't go into the Universum but we go into the Weltall. I think for most germans the definition Weltall=Universum wouldn't be correct anymore.

[plush pelican]

Try searching Dict.cc

https://www.dict.cc/?s=fein+raus+sein

[plush pelican]

Well, then, shit

But "Weltraum" is definitely space, right?

It can't be confused for anything else?

[west pond]

thanks dude

[celest reef]

i do not speak german but i want to learn is this the right place?

[west pond]

yes it is, you could ask questions here.

[celest reef]

how do i start?

[west pond]

check your dms I sent you something

[west mural]

Remind me: when asking a group of people how they are, is it Wie gehts es Ihnen?

[west pond]

Wie geht es ihnen?

[plush pelican]

small "ihnen" = they in dative form

for talking casually to a group, you use ihr, which becomes "euch"

[west pond]

ooops mistakes have been made

so what is capital I and small i?

[gusty silo]

capital i Ihnen : you, formal, grammatically plural but can be either in meaning (one or many people)
small i ihnen: they, many people

[plush pelican]

The forms of "you":

single, informal: du/dich/dir
single, formal: Sie/Sie/Ihnen

plural, informal: ihr/euch/euch
plural, formal: Sie/Sie/Ihnen

[west mural]

Ooh I see! So it’s

Wie get es euch??

Oder, wie geht es ihr?

[plush pelican]

Wie geht es euch?

the pronoun is in dative case for that phrase

[west mural]

Sorry I’m dyslexic descriptions lie that get really confusing for me

[plush pelican]

Wie geht es dir?
Wie geht es Ihnen?

Wie geht es euch?
Wie geht es Ihnen?

[west mural]

Okay!

I understand now thank you so much! Danke schon!

[sudden tendon]

ich habe + past participle vs hatte + past participle

is one for progressive and one for completed/punctual actions (see: grammatical aspect)? Trying to figure this out from trial and error lol

[gusty silo]

haben and sein + participle are for something past, hatte, being the past of haben, is used with a participle if the thing was already over and completed by whatever point in the past we're otherwise talking about

german, especially written/formal german, doesnt care about aspect much except that hatte+participle is already completed by some other past time event

(for completeness sake there's a very common informal construction to specify an imperfective/progressive meaning, but that wasn't your question)

[acoustic breach]

In standard german, there is no progressive

Haben/sein + past participle: Perfekt
hatten/waren + past participle: Plusquamperfekt

[sudden tendon]

ahhhh OK

[acoustic breach]

Perfekt is past tense. Plusquamperfekt is past tense, but "past" than Perfekt

[sudden tendon]

Yeah, we have that in French

Quand il est venu, j'avais déjà rangé la maison

[plush pelican]

"past in the past"

[sudden tendon]

first one would be haben, second one is hatten

danke

[brittle jacinth]

Heyy
why is auf used here ? is it sth like von...aus?
...,die ihm von klein auf vermittelt wurden

[plush pelican]

yes

[warped oriole]

Yes definitely.
I mean, it makes sense to use Weltall for universe. But I never heard someone say "Wir existieren im Weltall" but someone would say "Wir existieren im Universum". Now I'm confused too with Weltall...
But if I use it I always use it as "space".

[subtle pilot]

Is "Unser Volk wird geeint bleiben" the good translation for "Our people will remain united" ?

[balmy axle]

Ja

[icy flax]

Ist es zu komisch jemanden mit einem "schönen Nachmittag" zu grüßen statt "guten Nachmittag"? Ich hab einen Deutschen so begrüßt und er schien, es nicht das erste Mal verstanden zu haben. Im Rückblick finde ich, dass man üblicherweise "schön" eher fürs Verabschieden nutzt:

schönen Tag [noch]!

||Entweder liegt es darin, dass schön zu komisch ist, oder er hatte kein deutsches Wort erwartet, weil die Verandtaltung auf Englisch war||

[long whale]

Quite strange, yes. Since we don't say guten Nachmittag (or guten Vormittag, either. 🤷

[icy flax]

Wie würdest du denn jemanden erst nach dem Mittagspause grüßen?

[long whale]

Guten Morgen -> Guten Tag -> Guten Abend. And that's it, until you're going to bed: Gute Nacht

And yes, "schön-" is a good-bye.

[charred harbor]

I’ve heard Germans say “guten Nachmittag” before, actually… 🤔

[icy flax]

Danke Dir, Susana!
Das hat mich lange denken lassen, aber ich war super glücklich als er meine Aussprache gelobt hat. Ein netter Mann ist er.

[long whale]

Last entry/comment: https://deutsch-werden.de/de/gibts-guten-nachmittag-auf-deutsch-wie-good-afternoon-englisch Right.

@icy flax 🤷

[icy flax]

Jaaa .. aber ich sage lieber weiter ein einfaches "guten Tag" so wie du. (:

Vielen Dank für den Ping!

[frank trellis]

I would say the difference is that "schön" is more something you actually wish someone while the "gute" is more a phrase

Its a bit uncommon and people might look at you a bit weird but i wouldnt call it wrong

[grand vector]

Hii! I have a questionnn, what are the biggest differences between hochdeutsch and schweizer deutsch?

[delicate tiger]

Standard German (Germany), Standard German (Austria) and Standard German (Switzerland) are basically the same, only a couple dozen different Words. Swiss dialects are very different and hard to understand if you only speak Standard German, but almost all people in the German part of Switzerland can speak Standard German

[languid marsh]

Hi! is als being used here correctly? “Die Menschen in Bremen haben einen Ruf als schüchtern oder kalt”.

[warped oriole]

Die Menschen in Bremen haben einen Ruf schüchtern und kalt zu sein.

Die Menschen in Bremen gelten als schüchtern und kalt.

[languid marsh]

would this work? Die Menschen in Bremen scheinen kalt oder schüchtern zu sein ?

[warped oriole]

Ja

[fervent kernel]

"Guten Tag" (etc.) is for greeting when you meet other people. When you leave then instead of saying "auf Wiedersehen" you may also say "einen schönen Tag" or "schönen Tag" or "schönen Tag noch" which is a shortened form of the whole sentence "Ich wünsche Ihnen noch einen schönen Tag" (which would also be possible). Sometimes, when I meet some people who are well known to me, I also use "einen schönen guten Tag" or even "einen wunderschönen guten Tag" instead of the simple "guten Tag". But as a non-native speaker I would stick simply to "guten Tag" and "auf Wiedersehen" until I'd be certain when it may be proper to use the other forms.

[prisma hearth]

Why do some German sentences have the verbs and pronouns switched?
Ex. Auf der Seite meiner Mama, HABE ICH einer Tante

[plain umbra]

Auf der Seite meiner Mama habe ich eine Tante.

It's because the verb goes in the second position in a simple sentence.

Position one is "auf der Seite meiner Mama". The verb comes next.

You can put pretty much anything in the first position. You just have to make sure the verb comes next.

For example, you could also say:
Ich habe auf der Seite meiner Mama eine Tante.
Eine Tante habe ich auf der Seite meiner Mama.

[prisma hearth]

Oh so all that matters is that it comes AFTER the subject?

[plain umbra]

No, all that matters is that the verb is the second element in the clause.

[charred harbor]

I think you could also say “ich habe eine Tante mütterlicherseits”.

[prisma hearth]

Alright thank you

[plush pelican]

Here is a simpler sentence.

Ich schwimme heute mit meinem Bruder im Pool.
I swim with my brother in the pool today.

Any individual element can be in position 1, as long as the verb is in position 2.

Ich schwimme heute mit meinem Bruder im Pool.
I swim with my brother in the pool today.

Heute schwimme ich mit meinem Bruder im Pool.
Today, I swim with my brother in the pool.

Mit meinem Bruder schwimme ich heute im Pool.
With my brother, I swim today in the pool.

Im Pool schwimme ich heute mit meinem Bruder.
In the pool, I swim today with my brother.

Notice that German doesn't put a comma, unlike English. In English, to emphasize something, we have to cut it out of the sentence, then past it on the front, and separate it from the sentence with a comma. In German, you can simply move something to position 1 while keeping it all a single sentence.

[prisma hearth]

So basically all that matters is that the verb is in that second position

[plush pelican]

I mean, other things matter, but that IS the most important thing

That's why German word order is called "V2-Word order", V2 = verb in 2nd position

[charred harbor]

The position of the subject is pretty important too I guess

“Heute schwimme mit meinem Bruder ich im Pool” just sounds wrong

[plush pelican]

We can get to more nuanced stuff after he's mastered the basics 😛

[plain umbra]

Verb position is the most strict and important part of word order. Everything else can move around a bit but verbs have a set position that you have to follow and it's the most important rules for beginners to learn.

So when you're a beginner just starting out, you mostly want to focus on making sure all your verbs are in the right place.

[prisma hearth]

So they mainly go in the second position and the final position?

[plush pelican]

yes

[plain umbra]

Yes, that's right. Or first position for a question.

[prisma hearth]

Yes, danke all of you

[plush pelican]

Ich habe heute mit meinem Bruder gespielt.

[plain umbra]

Like for example: Lernst du Deutsch? Do you learn German?

[prisma hearth]

Or, Hast du Brot? Do you have bread?

[plain umbra]

Yep, exactly. And then if you use a question word, you put that one in front of the verb. Like for example: Warum lernst du Deutsch? Why do you learn German?

[prisma hearth]

Or Woher kommst du? Where do you come from?

[plain umbra]

Yep, exactly.

[prisma hearth]

Vielen Dank 🙏

[charred harbor]

Can I ask where this sentence is from by the way?

[distant haven]

i have been thinking about it I don't see any noun in this sentence being in nominative (den gekochten Kartoffeln, warmer Milch => dativ, einen Kartoffelbrei => accusative)

[charred harbor]

You’re correct.
I think you could compare it to a cookbook (random example): “Bring the milk to a boil”
It’s an instruction so there’s no actual subject in the sentence per se
In the second sentence the grammar has been rearranged so there is a subject

“Ein Kartoffelbrei wird gemacht”

[plush pelican]

oh shit

you're right

The first sentence is a sentence in the infinitive imperative

They use it for certain instructions like in cooking recipes

Or like for on signs sometimes

In directions (for example in cooking recipes) which don't speak directly to the user, the working instructions are often given in the infinitive form instead of the more obsolete "man nehme", for example: Gemüse putzen, waschen und vorbereiten [vegetables clean, wash, and prepare]....

On public display signs, this infinitive form is often used: Links stehen, rechts gehen! (left wait, right go!) Bitte hinten aussteigen! (Please exit in the back!) Im Notfall Glas einschlagen (in case of emergency, break glass)

This infinitive form is also often widespread on signs involving bans/prohibitions, for example: Nicht rauchen! (don't smoke!) or Nicht hinauslehnen! (don't lean out [of the window]!) In spoken usage, this infinitive form is commonly used as a replacement for the regular imperative: Aufpassen! (Watch out!) Hergucken! (Look here!) Nicht faulenzen! (Don't loaf about!) Erst denken, dann reden! (first think, then speak!)

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperativ_(Modus)#Infinitiv

[distant haven]

thanks, that clears thing out for me, because I didn't understand that the main verb in Infinitiv (even tho now I see it is literally in the request of the exercise) I thought it's the plural form of the verb

[zealous ginkgo]

How important is Genitiv in learning as a beginner and how far can I go without the ability to use it?

We learnt the Akkusativ, Dativ and Nominativ in school and our teacher told us that we will talk about Genitiv in three (3!!!!!!!) years so we shouldn't think about it now... ||so obviously I can't stop thinking about it.|| I take extended German so it really seems like a long time.

Is it really that hard to learn or is it just the absurdity of the core curriculum in my school...?

[plush pelican]

I mean, nothing is stopping you from learning outside of class

[plain umbra]

It's easy to learn as long as you feel comfortable with making basic sentences already. The main reason you don't want to rush into it is simply that there's many important topics and you can't learn them all at the same time. Genitive is important it's just that people may decide something else is more important and they want to use the time for something else.

But yeah, it's not a hard topic.

[zealous ginkgo]

alright, thanks ||really sorry if that was a stupid question I'm just not really sure abt too many things||

[signal cipher]

I think you should learn. It’s not a long deep topic

[crude tusk]

aber das ist zu formal ja?

[charred harbor]

Nein soweit ich weiß

Bin ja aber kein Muttersprachler

[crude tusk]

ok danke

[icy flax]

Ja, es ist genau so und unbewusst war es prezis meine Absicht, ich wollte zu ihm kommen und ihm einen schönen Gruß sagen. Da beabsichtigte ich nicht, einfach ein "set-phrase" auszusprechen.

[empty badger]

vas is ein S-Bahn?

[icy flax]

Aber nächstes Mal werde ich mich ruhiger, friedlich und ganz ganz locker benehmen.

[icy flax]

Ein Bahn, der auf der "Surface" gelegt ist

"Superficial Line for Trains"

[broken urchin]

Was bedeutet locker

[icy flax]

In diesem Sinne, "easygoing" sein

Also, nicht gestresst oder robotisch wirken, einfach natürlich und sorgenlos

[peak jackal]

can some1 translate it please Monatliche Kosten und Vorteile
GigaZuhause 250 Kabel (ab dem 10. Monat 49,99 €/mtl.)
19,99 €
HomeBox FRITZ!Box 6660
4,99 €
Summe in den ersten 9 Monaten 24,98 €
Summe ab dem 10. Monat 54,98 €
Einmalige Kosten und Vorteile
Bereitstellungsentgelt
49,99 €
Versandkosten
6,99 €
Gutschrift Bereitstellungsentgelt
-49,99 €
Startguthaben
-100,00 €
Summe inkl. Vorteile -93,01 €

[broken urchin]

Vielen dank❤️

[jolly orchid]

sure, here it is:
monthly costs and advantages
GigaZuhause 250mbit cable (49,99 € monthly from the 10th month on)
19,99 €
HomeBox FRITZ!Box 6660 (router)
4,99 €
monthly total for the first 9 months: 24,98 €
monthly total from the 10th month on: 54,98 €
One-time costs and advantages
provision fee
49,99 €
shipping
6,99 €
credit provision fee
-49,99 €
starter balance
-100,00 €
Total (with advantages) -93,01 €

[obtuse brook]

How would you make a relativsatz from"Ich darf ihn kritisieren" and "ich wünsche mir einen Freund"?..

[delicate tiger]

einen Freund, den...

[prisma hearth]

Is the sentence,
“Heute bin ich über Speedcubing gespräch” grammatically correct? Cuz something in me is saying that the verb “talk” should be “Gesprächen” there

It SHOULD say,
“Today I’m talking about Speedcubing”

[long whale]

No, it is not correct. German doesn't have a continuous tense. ich koche = 1. I cook 2. I'm cooking

Try again?

[prisma hearth]

„Heute bin ich über Speedcubing sprechen“ ?

[long whale]

ich koche means both "I cook" AND "I am cooking"

-> ich bin sprechen is gibberish.

[prisma hearth]

So „Heute spreche ich über Speedcubing“ ?

[maiden burrow]

when to use die Entschuldigung? i mean i know it means apologize but how a word can have Geschlecht??

[long whale]

I'm not sure what you're asking about? "die Entschuldigung" = apology -> it's a noun. It's just that we often use it where you'd say "Excuse me" in English.

[maiden burrow]

Kannst du ein Beispiel geben?

[long whale]

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Entschuldigung

Look, all German nouns are gendered. Even though you never say "das Berlin" or "das England", noun gender is still important, because you need to be able to say "Beautiful England!", in which case noun gender is required to give the adjective its proper ending: "Schönes England!"

[prisma shell]

When do you use "denn"? Google says it means "then" but doesn't "dann" mean "then"? What's the usage for "denn"?

[rose siren]

denn means because

[prisma shell]

"weil" also means because right?

[rose siren]

Yes but Weil moves the verb to the end

[prisma shell]

Yea that rule I remember, thanks

[rose siren]

Like Ich muss Alkohol vermeiden ,weil er schlecht ist

[rose siren]

No problem !

[long whale]

*..., weil Es er schlecht [für die/meine Gesundheit] ist.

[outer edge]

hi I have a question. When should I say for example:
Ich entscheide mich
or
Ich entscheide
When do I add the reflexive pronoun?

[gusty silo]

there's often a clear meaning difference (or, more "indepth", a difference about which grammatical structures something can be used with)
Ich entscheide mich is about you picking something or not, about your process of coming to a decision
Ich entscheide is about you deciding instead of other people (or, in the past tense but i feel like not the present(?), you making a decision that xyz is to be the case, as a statement)

[signal cipher]

Can I use future 2 to mean was going to?
I was going to go out, but rain started, so I couldn’t.

[long whale]

Whenever you make up your mind about your own life (what to study, where to live, which language to learn, etc.) use the reflexive pronoun. It's only when you're a judge or the parliament, and you make a decision about other people (usually based on sth other than your own preferences) when it's used without the reflexive.

[gusty silo]

yeah exactly, so these were the examples i was thinking of:

1. Ich entscheide mich für XYZ (I choose xyz), Ich entscheide mich noch ("I'm still deciding 🤔"), and so on
   2a) Ich entscheide! (I am making the decisions here! or I'm choosing!)
   2b) Der oberste Gerichtshof hat entschieden, dass.... (The supreme court has decided, that...)

[plush pelican]

I'm not sure about that, but I do know you can use "vorhaben" (to plan or intend)

Ich hatte vor, rauszugehen, aber es hat angefangen zu regnen, also konnte ich nicht.

DeepL also suggests "Ich wollte eigentlich rausgehen"

[long whale]

To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with Futur II, neither in English nor in German. 🤔

[gusty silo]

you can put the werden into its subjunctive (form for hypotheticals and some other things). but then it's muuch more natural to just use the infinitive instead of the participle plus auxiliary

[signal cipher]

As I know was going to is for actions which are failed or which are not known if they are failed or not. I couldn’t see equivalent of this in German.

[long whale]

Yes, that's correct, and the equivalent is above, as give by Argus.

[gusty silo]

eeeexcuse me, put the auxiliary in its subjunctive and boot out the werden

[plush pelican]

That website I linked actually talks about this a bit

[signal cipher]

Thank you @plush pelican @long whale

[gusty silo]

Es wird geregnet haben, aber.... ❌ Wrong
Es würde geregnet haben, aber... ✅ Yeah i suppose but not common (actually: still a conditional and should go with wenn not aber i think.)
Es hätte geregnet, aber... ✅

[gusty silo]

i was thinking of a conditional (Es würde regnen, wenn... - It would rain (note: not "would have rained") if...) rather than a counterfactual at first

[long whale]

@signal cipher All of this is formally correct, but fails to mention how deeply unnatural the German sentences sound. "Wenn/Bis ihr ankommt, habe ich [bestimmt] ein Hotel gefunden." resp. "Bis heute Abend habe ich das Geschirr gespült"

is what I'd go for.

[plush pelican]

You're talking about the German tendency to replace future stuff with present tense stuff

Bzw. Perfekt

I mean, this site is talking the basics first

You can't learn the shorthand before you've learned the longhand

They talk later about not actually using future stuff

[gusty silo]

hmm. i mean, this is very "i was written by an author" or whatever

it's simply not how people talk

[long whale]

Yes. I'm just trying to tell OP Futur II isn't used in German the way it is in English (where I've actually seen it used in newspaper articles).

[gusty silo]

or like, yeah i do think these sentences are occasionally said, but there's no real drawback from a "get people to speak normal german" side of things to tell them to use the present/perfect first and foremost and learn the future II later

[plush pelican]

Hmmm

They mention Futur 1 becomes Präsens, but not Futur 2 becomes Perfekt

http://germanforenglishspeakers.com/verbs/future-tenses/

Maybe they don't actually mention the Futur 2 thing

[gusty silo]

if this was written by germans, or perhaps sufficiently advanced non natives, they might just not think about the futur 2 often enough to have remembered/noticed this as a process

🙈

[plush pelican]

Well, the thing is, I only learned about this Futur 2 becomes Perfekt thing from Susana

[gusty silo]

i've also never consciously thought about it

[plush pelican]

Which means either I missed it in what resources I've seen up to now, or it doesn't get talked about a lot

There are some things that don't seem to get talked about a lot, despite being important

Like, the Feldermodell helps so much for understanding medium to advanced complexity sentences, but a lot of sources don't mention it

[gusty silo]

ah interesting! good to hear it helps

i know it from german linguistics for germans, so i've always wondered if it isn't still too much to think about to apply as a learner

[plush pelican]

The Feldermodell?

[gusty silo]

yeah

[plush pelican]

I think it's necessary

It's like Newtonian physics versus Einstein relativity shit

[gusty silo]

oh lol

[plush pelican]

Newtonian physics can explain the most common shit, but when you start getting more advanced, you start having to fudge things more and more in order to keep using newtonian physics

And eventually it becomes too much of a burden and it'd be better to just think of things relativistically

Similarly, talking about positioning of stuff in a sentence rapidly becomes difficult to explain without the Feldermodell

[gusty silo]

mhm i see

[plush pelican]

Beginners encounter this shit pretty early

And then it gets confusing

[signal cipher]

Most of the sources just give basics and omit the details. It makes so hard to learn tenses, sentence structures etc.

[plush pelican]

Like "why do you put nicht before the prepositional phrase in 'Ich bereite mich nicht auf die Party vor'?"

I saw a website that explained that as "you put nicht before prepositional phrases", which sort of works, but is not fully accurate

So you have these fudges that don't fully explain things accurately and keep leaving gaps

[signal cipher]

“Auf die Party” isn’t it bad to separate this and put a word between?

[plush pelican]

?

Give an example of what you mean

[signal cipher]

I think I misunderstood you about nicht before preposition.

[plush pelican]

I meant "nicht auf die Party", like nicht before the entire prepositional phrase

[short isle]

where else could it go?

[plush pelican]

Well, that IS where it's supposed to go

[signal cipher]

The end before vor?

[plush pelican]

But why it's supposed to go there turns out to be somewhat complicated

[gusty silo]

true, that would also be valid

[plush pelican]

Unless you've learned about the Feldermodell of organizing sentences

[gusty silo]

(but not the default)

[plush pelican]

What does that mean in comparison?

[gusty silo]

hmm, good question

[plush pelican]

Ich bereite mich auf die Party nicht vor.

[signal cipher]

I will search about mr Felder. I love to learn sentence structures. Even more then tenses 😄

[short isle]

end of sentence nicht = negated verb

[plush pelican]

Right, except "auf die Party" turns out to be a verb traveling companion. It's closely attached to the verb, so when you go to negate the verb, you end up having to put nicht before this traveling companion, because the companion is like "glued" to the verb's side

[plush pelican]

I've explained it in here before. Let me try to find my explanation

[gusty silo]

i feel like it's (warning, potentially vague phrasings incoming) more a comment about the party than about what you're doing?

[gusty silo]

that is sort of where the emphasis lies?

[short isle]

yeah yeah get over your perfect grammar rules. unless you’re meeting with high society, and no one on discord is high society, perfect grammar doesn’t exist

[plush pelican]

Can you explain in more detail when to use one vs. the other?

[gusty silo]

hm? how do you mean

[signal cipher]

It’s fun to learn them. And knowing them helps a a lot when you teach.

[plush pelican]

I think I'd like to become a German teacher, so it is actually important for me to know this stuff.

[short isle]

just go with what’s natural and fits within the speakers’ understanding of how to negate things

[gusty silo]

yes but how do we explain what that is :p

"download a native speakers entire brain into yours" isn't an easy task

there is such a thing as a science of studying precisely these things

[short isle]

what ive learned is “negates whatever follows it” and “nicht at the end = negates the verb” and “nicht =/= kein”

u learn the rules once then u bend them

[signal cipher]

Ich bereite mich nicht auf die Party vor - I prepare no Party.
Ich bereite mich auf die Party nicht vor - I don’t prepare Party

Is it like that?

[plush pelican]

No, the first one also means "I don't prepare for the party"

[gusty silo]

they both basically do

the difference is hard to explain

[short isle]

the first one implies that it’s not a party that they’re getting ready for

[plush pelican]

Btw, here is one of the times I've talked about Feldermodell:

#questions-2 message

There are other times as well that I will try to find @signal cipher

[short isle]

that they might be going elsewhere

[gusty silo]

true, or that you are going to one but what you're doing right now does not include any getting ready

[signal cipher]

Ich bereite mich nicht auf die Party vor
I prepare not for Party, I prepare but for something else.

Is it like that? The nuance?

[long whale]

I... if I understood you correctly, I think I disagree? The only halfway valid sentence I can come up with would contrast the negated verb with another verb-like thing, like... Ich bereite mich auf die Party nicht vor, ich habe ihretwegen hysterische Anfälle. 🤷

[gusty silo]

maybe? i was thinking about someone asking you if you're still going to get ready or if you've already done that or whatever and then replying that

[short isle]

i guess vocal intonation would make that difference

[gusty silo]

(as in: there is no need for you to devote any time to getting ready)

[plush pelican]

@signal cipher here is another time talking about Feldermodell in context of negation:
#questions-2 message

[gusty silo]

i feel like the difference between the two sentences depends on topic/focus stuff in some way, but i don't have the answer for in what way

(Topic/focus = Thema/Rhema, als Fachbegriffe, nicht im normalen generellen Sinn)

[long whale]

Yeah, well, I can see how both would be valid if you added in "brauchen", I think... Ich brauche mich nicht auf die Party vorzubereiten vs. Ich brauche mich auf die Party nicht vorzubereiten 🤔 If that's what you meant? But the "rule" of putting the "nicht" before the prepositional thingy would still be valid, wouldn't it? If it's about a learner glueing together a valid sentence?

[plush pelican]

I'm interested in all valid ways of making a sentence

If you can do more than just putting it before the prepositional phrase that's a verb traveling companion, I'm interested in how that works

[signal cipher]

Danke schön

[plush pelican]

@signal cipher here is talking about negation and the verb traveling companions, the "Verbgefährte":
#questions message

This all reflects my understanding of stuff, so I could be wrong 😅

[long whale]

I know you're interested, but I strongly feel whatever other options might conceivably be considered valid, or might occasionally occur in spoken German, placing "nicht" before the prepositional thingy would lead to the most natural sounding sentence - even in my version with the hissy fits. 🤔

[plush pelican]

Good to know

[plush pelican]

Btw. I'm not entirely sure if "hysterische Anfälle" translates to "hissy fit".

Hissy fit is typically a tantrum, something a child does or when someone is behaving like a child, I believe a "Trotzanfall"?

When I hear "hysterische Anfälle", I'm thinking the Victorian era idea about women having a wandering uterus and "hysteria" or a "hysterical fit".

[long whale]

I see. I didn't know it had this specific meaning in English. Yes, I know that was the basic idea "Hysterie/hysteria/hysterisch/hysterical" was derived from. I'd use it for an overly emotional reaction (or as a general description of a person tending towards such reactions), whether by a man or a woman.

[plush pelican]

And "hysterische Anfälle", does that have a connotation of them behaving like a child, or just that it's an emotional overreaction?

[long whale]

To me, that's kind of synonymous. Whether you're crying/ screaming/shouting/throwing yourself on the floor because there's no more strawberry ice-cream, because your sister is playing with your favourite toy, or because the caterers can't deliver the right kind of caviare all amounts to the same thing, doesn't it? 🤷

[plush pelican]

Interesting 👍

[outer edge]

Hi
what's the auxilliary verb of the verb biegen?
sein or haben?
some websites say "ist gebogen" other say "hat gebogen"

[night dagger]

just use a dictionary like verbformen.com :)

[fluid hearth]

Hallo, ich habe eine Frage über etwas. I've learned that when you speak to someone in respectful way, you use "Sie" (with the big letter), und "Du" when you speak to your family or friends and "ihr" is used when you speak to at least 2 people. I actually understand that easily because I'm French and we've got the same system in French. However, I've watched some extract of a show in German, and there was a talk between just 2 people, and one of both uses "ihr" to talk to the other, can anyone explain that ??! I absolutely don't understand this because I thought "ihr" was only used to talk to at least two people.
Thank you for helping

[night dagger]

Depends on the meaning tho

[outer edge]

that's what I've used and though it says "ist gebogen", other dictionaries say "hat gebogen"
that's why I ask

oh
I get it

[night dagger]

well, there are different meanings to the word :)

[outer edge]

yeah I just realized haha

thanks

[night dagger]

yep ;)

[fluid hearth]

@night dagger may you help with my request too ? 😶

Please 🙏

[night dagger]

do u have a quote?

[fluid hearth]

I just explained my question above

[night dagger]

"ihr" can also mean "her", so like "ihr Tisch ist aus Holz"

[fluid hearth]

Oh yeah I know that, but in my case "ihr" was the subject of the sentence, the person in the extract meant "you" in English

I hope you understand

[night dagger]

well, if i'm talking to you, and the topic of conversation is about how you and your friend ate all of the food, i might say "ihr habt das alles verspeist!", even though the other person isn't in the room anymore

because im referring to the both of you

similar to "ya'll" in english

[fluid hearth]

Yes I understand this, and I considered this possibility, but actually in the extract I saw, the person only talk to the other one and only about the other, at least I guess. That's why I wondered if "ihr" could be used to refer about only one person ?

[night dagger]

no

[fluid hearth]

Okay ! Thanks for helping then :)

[reef moss]

The only instance where Ihr could refer to one person has been dead for over 100 years 😉

So, so long as you aren't reading texts from about 1875 or earlier, then there is no chance that it could refer to one person

[outer edge]

Wir sind für die Party angezogen
Wir haben für die Party angezogen
Hi can someone explain me the difference between these 2 phrases please

[delicate tiger]

only first one is correct

[plush pelican]

Or anything involving Fantasy or medieval fiction

[plush pelican]

What was the setting of the show?

It's also possible that when the one person was saying "ihr", they weren't referring to just the other person, but to the other person plus their group.

Like, if you have a Democrat and a Republican in a room together, the Democrat might say to the Republican, "Ihr müsst kooperativer sein!"

And there, they mean the group of Republicans, not just the one guy in the room.

In other words: give some more context, dude, context can change a lot

[outer edge]

but why is that
can you explain please
I don't understand when to use sein and when haben with this verb

[long whale]

Have you checked a dictionary? If you had, you'd have seen it's "etwas/jdn anziehen", resp. "sich anziehen" -> the verb requires a direct object/Akkusativobjekt. And there is none in your 2nd sentence. You'd have to put it in if you want it to work. 🌻

The difference is the same as in "Das Zimmer ist geputzt" (The room has been cleaned, i.e. it is clean now, it is in a clean state) and "Ich habe das Zimmer geputzt" (I cleaned the room)

[delicate sapphire]

bit of a silly question ive always seen people say/write Kaninchen but never Kanin any reason behind that like, that they are smol and cute

[long whale]

Basically, all nouns can be "made small" by adding -chen or -lein, but some words only exist in the -chen form. fairy tale = das Märchen; bread roll = das Brötchen

Same for rabbit = das Kaninchen

[charred harbor]

Maybe a bad comparison but I think “Mädchen” could qualify too

You use that to refer to girls but you don’t use the base word to refer to women

It’s just evolution of language

[delicate sapphire]

"made small" I understand diminutive* stuffs ok just evolution of lauange thing kk

[long whale]

The word is diminutive/der Diminutiv. 🤷

[delicate sapphire]

herp a derp autocorrect burnt me there tanks

[delicate tiger]

is "die Mär" really that unused?

[long whale]

Not sure, but same as for Brot/Brötchen, isn't it? Simply not just a smaller version, more like its own thing, wouldn't you agree?

[fluid hearth]

what do you mean by setting of the show ?

[plush pelican]

Was ist set in the Middle Ages or in a Fantasy setting, like The Witcher?

In those times, you used "Ihr" as the formal, singular You, and tv shows still do that when writing in that time period

[fluid hearth]

Oh, it's actually a cartoon

so no "old" german

[plush pelican]

what is the setting of the cartoon, my dude? What time period? What genre?

There are cartoons with a Fantasy setting.

[fluid hearth]

That's what Yuhu told me, and I knew that already as it's same in french language, butI thought it might be used to refer to only one person

[fluid hearth]

True xD, but i'd say it's actual

At least not old

What's sure is that's not old languages, so it can't be that old "ihr", I just guess it really refers to a few people

[plush pelican]

If you would give the actual quote, that would probably help. Is "ihr" capitalized or not, for example?

[fluid hearth]

That's not only one quote, the character just speak to the other using "ihr"

But you should be right and she speaks of several people

[glass hawk]

What's the cartoon? I'm curious—always looking for new things to give a watch

[fluid hearth]

Ninjago haha

[glass hawk]

Cheers. German dub seem decent? I'll throw it in my listening playlist 😛

[fluid hearth]

Yeah I really like german voices

Are you also learning german ?

[glass hawk]

Yes, albeit very haphazardly. It's a passing hobby that I don't have a ton of time for, rather than a focus. Sadly. >_<

[fluid hearth]

Oh i see haha

[plush pelican]

That is a fantasy setting.

It being in a seemingly modern time speaks against "Ihr" as a formal singular You.

But it being an alternate fantasy ninja world speaks for that.

I found some stuff on YouTube; they seem to use "du" a lot, making it unlikely that they're using the formal Ihr.

[whole portal]

Ninjago is definitely mostly du

Very friendly atmosphere and not really set in the past

https://youtu.be/mLe6MNGbhQk?si=RLlUEhipEFrl76Ir

[vernal ermine]

Adding order at the end to declarative sentence . Does it make the sentence as question ?

[fluid hearth]

Yeah they use the "du" a lot, I just watched a scene in which they used "ihr" and I didn't get why

[long whale]

If you don't give us context and full sentences, we will never be able to explain...

[lusty beacon]

difference between "du" and "ihr" is a little tricky... even as a native it is hard to explain

[plush pelican]

What do you mean, Jack?

[vernal ermine]

Wir gehen ins Kino. -> Wir gehen ins Kino, oder?

Does Oder can be used in a way to make it as a question?

[plush pelican]

It's just like this:

"We're going to the movie theater, right?"

So yeah, it makes it into a question, but you don't have to change the order of the sentence

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican do we have to use comma before oder in that sentence?

[plush pelican]

Yes

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican Vielen Dank ❤

[fluid hearth]

It would be useless to give an exact quote I guess, it's just a character talking to another using "ihr", and "euer/eure" and "euch"

[long whale]

Do you not understand? It depends entirely on context. Let's say we're talking about school. We're going to different schools, you and I, I just know we're both in the same grade. I might ask you "Habt Ihr in Geschichte schon XYZ durchgenommen?" = Have you all talked about XYZ in history yet? "you all" = you and your class mates

[fluid hearth]

Yes yes I do know this and I said that it should be that case

If I could send you the extract, I would, but I didn't see that on the internet but on Netflix

[long whale]

If it's available on Netflix in Germany, just give me the name of the series, episode number and time stamp, okay?

[fluid hearth]

Ok so it's the cartoon Ninjago, season 9 episode 6, and I don't have the time stamp because I don't have Netflix with me, but it's about at the middle at the episode

In a scene with a white haired girl and four armed evil guy

[long whale]

Yeah. She addresses the 1st guy as "Mein dunkler Lord" and then uses the obsolete "Ihr" instead of "du/Sie" to show she's full of awe and respect, basically "beneath him". So, not something which would ever happen irl.

[plush pelican]

We could've figured that out a long time ago if you'd just answered stuff directly instead of hemming and hawing about it

[sudden tendon]

when is wenn when and when is wenn if

[long whale]

Unless you're talking about habit, English "when" also includes an element of uncertainty: "We'll have dinner when your brother comes home" -> yeah, he probably will come home, but what if he's abducted by aliens, you know? It's just unlikely he won't come home. If you feel or want to emphasize something is unlikely, you can always use "falls" (if/in case) instead of "wenn".

[fluid hearth]

Okayyyy I get it, so it's indeed an old "ihr" which wouldn't be used in curent language, I thank you for your explaination !

[fluid hearth]

You're right sorry I should have told it directly ^^'

[sudden tendon]

Oh, I meant in German. wenn is both when/if and I don't know how to use it

falls is a new word

[sage canyon]

Wie sagt man, ,,akzeptiert oder angenommen" im Zusammenhang einer Annahme bei einem Programm oder Universität?

etwas, dass man sich darum beworben hat?

[long whale]

For "Studium", it's "jdn zulassen", resp. "die Zulassung [zum Studium] erhalten"

[fervent kernel]

Strictly speaking oder? doesn't make it into a question. It is only an indication that the preceding sentence is meant as a question.
Wir gehen ins Kino? can be a question by itself, too, although it uses the normal word order of a factual sentence. In direct speech from person to person raising the voice during the sentence will indicate that it is meant as a question. Often an interspersed doch is additionally used to signal doubt:
Wir gehen doch ins Kino? Nicht wahr? Oder doch nicht?

[versed wasp]

Leute, ich habe eine Frage. Warum wird hier der Dativ verwendet?

[livid iron]

Im Satz "Madleine Lindhorst erste weibliche Chefredaktorin des ältesten Jagdmagazins Deutschland, dem 'Jäger'" ist "dem Jäger" im Dativ, weil es sich um die Angabe des Ortes handelt, wo Madleine Lindhorst als Chefredakteurin arbeitet. Der Dativ wird verwendet, um den Ort oder das Ziel einer Handlung oder eines Zustands zu beschreiben.
Hier bezieht sich "dem Jäger" auf das Jagdmagazin, für das Madleine Lindhorst als Chefredakteurin arbeitet. Es sagt aus, dass sie die erste weibliche Chefredakteurin dieses Magazins ist. "Dem Jäger" zeigt an, wo sie diese Position innehat. In diesem Kontext wird der Dativ verwendet, um die Position oder den Ort der Handlung zu beschreiben, nämlich das Jagdmagazin.
Aber verbessert mich gerne wenn ich falsch liege.

[long whale]

You'd usually use Genitiv (die Chefredakteurin der "Zeit"/der FAZ). However, der JÄGER in Genitiv would be des JÄGERS. Which would confuse the reader, since the magazine isn't called "JÄGERS", it's called "JÄGER". So, they avoided the extra -s by using Dativ. 🌻

@livid iron

[livid iron]

ok 👍 , danke

[versed wasp]

You guys are playing with your language 😂😂

[livid iron]

ich versteh es auch nicht immer komplett 😂

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/wait-what-gif-21319330

[long whale]

There are other cases where Genitiv gets replaced with Dativ. E.g. you'd have a problem using a noun like "der Fehler, die Fehler" in plural without any marker, so, you'd use its Dativ form instead: wegen Grammatikfehler -> wegen Grammatikfehlern

[plush pelican]

Ah, this is listed in Hammer's German Grammar, I just didn't pay attention to it

Hammer's German Grammar 2.6:

Apparently, this isn't actually Standard German

[long whale]

On the other hand, this doesn't seem relevant to OP's question... 🤔

[plush pelican]

It isn't? you have a noun in genitive, then a comma, then another noun describing the same thing, but in dative. Is that not apposition?

[long whale]

But isn't the apposition "des ältesten... Deutschlands"?

[plush pelican]

It's the hunting magazine that's being described twice, no?

Germany doesn't equal "JÄGER"?

If we take away "Deutschlands":

erste weibliche Chefredakteurin des ältesten Jagdmagazins, dem "JÄGER"

It's two genitive nouns, one after the other, no?

(des ältesten Jagdmagazins) (Deutschlands)

for comparison:

die Hauptstadt (Deutschlands)

the first female chief editor of the oldest hunting magazine of Germany?

[long whale]

Isn't it rather like the last 2 example sentences in Hammer's, except the apposition comes first with OP's example? I mean, I may be wrong, but isn't the apposition the thing that just explains things further (in case you didn't know who or what that thing/person is) but might as well be left out?

[plush pelican]

which two sentences?

[long whale]

Nach dem Tod meines Onkels [unnecessary frill about uncle]

[plush pelican]

right, the uncle is described with another noun. Normally, if you do that, the case has to match the original case before the comma

[long whale]

The owners of the "Birnbaum" [unnecessary frill about inn]

[plush pelican]

but there is a common exception to turn Genitive in the first bit into dative in the (unnecessary frill)

which is what you're doing with des ältesten Jagdmagazins, dem "JÄGER"

[long whale]

Yeah, a common non-standard exception. But it's not the magazine's name that's the unnecessary frill, it's the bit before it, isn't it?

[plush pelican]

you mean the fact that it's the oldest hunting magazine in Germany is the unnecessary information?

[long whale]

So-and-so, editor-in-chief of [unnecessary frill] "JÄGER"

[plush pelican]

I don't think there's any rule that the first time the noun is mentioned has to be the important information, and the 2nd time has to be relatively less important/unnecessary

Ich liebe meinen Bruder, den König.

Which one is more important information? Depends on your point of view, no?

[long whale]

No, of course not. What I'm asking you is: is the unnecessary frill the apposition?

[plush pelican]

well, the 2nd noun is the apposition. But that may or may not be "unnecessary frill"

nach dem Tod meines Onkels, dem früheren Bürgermeister

the fact that he was the city mayor is probably more important for most people, not that he was the speaker's uncle

[ripe dust]

May I do this, as marked here?
Doch begann**, was im Westen oft ignoriert wird,** der Versuch ...

[fervent kernel]

Hello guys i am trying to access uni-assist but it doesn't work, it gives me This site can’t be reached.
Is this what also Got ?

[echo sleet]

Doch -> Jedoch but sounds correct

[pure crescent]

Yes you may do this.

[acoustic breach]

...Shouldnt you contact your university instead of discord?

[silent ore]

Grüß Gott!! Sind ALLE Untrennbare Verben mit "t" zu beendet?
Zum Beispiel
Verkauf-t
Beteilig-t
Erzähl-t

Versteh-t

[acoustic breach]

Was meinst du?

Do you mean like Infinitiv? Partizip 2?

[silent ore]

Ach Das Perfekt 😂

[acoustic breach]

No

Verstehen -> verstanden haben

[silent ore]

oH

[acoustic breach]

Es hat nichts damit zu tun, ob das Verb trennbar ist

[silent ore]

so ich muss alle erinnern

[acoustic breach]

Ja

[silent ore]

du bist hilfreich 👍 vielen dank

[acoustic breach]

It could help, if you find out whether the verbs are irregular.

Usually, irregular verbs would take -en for Partizip 2. They would also have vowel change either in the Präsens or Präteritum

@silent ore

For example:

Fahren
Präsens: Ich fahre, du fahrst fährst, er/sie/es fahrt fährt
Präteritum: Ich fuhr
Perfekt: gefahren haben

[silent ore]

wdym irregular, bitte geben mir ein Beispiel 🙏

[acoustic breach]

@silent ore

[silent ore]

is that work for all verbs

[acoustic breach]

Sprechen

Ich spreche, du sprechst sprichst, er/sie/es sprecht spricht
Präteritum: ich sprach
Perfekt: gesprochen haben

[acoustic breach]

It usually works

There are only a few that doesnt follow this pattern

[silent ore]

OOO I GET IT NOW

[acoustic breach]

I unfortunately dont remember which ones dont work
I think they are called "mixed verbs"

[silent ore]

gehen right? 😀

[acoustic breach]

Otherwise:

Partizip 2
Irregular verb: -en
Regular verb: -t

[acoustic breach]

Yes

Ich gehe, ich ging
Gegangen sein

[long whale]

Ehh... fahren isn't used transitively all that often...

[silent ore]

what

[acoustic breach]

Ah sorry the point was the partizip 2

[long whale]

It's usually "gefahren sein". ;)

verbformen.de is a pretty good site for checking verb conjugation.

[silent ore]

yeas i downloaded Verben in appstore, but still i muss find it one by one

ich lege eine B1 Prüfung ab, so muss ich Abkürzung nutzen

[silent ore]

eh if it doesnt stay gesprechen ,what about other verb that i dont know

[acoustic breach]

For those irregular verbs, you'll have to just know them

Singen, gesungen
Sinken, gesunken
Fliegen, geflogen

Entscheiden, entschieden

Unterscheiden, unterschieden

[silent ore]

I want to ask
Sonja und Heiner suchen ein Haus mit Terasse und Swimming-Pool
but instead of D the answer is none, why ..?

[plush pelican]

Translate the sentences to English fully

What is the ad saying?

[silent ore]

rent in my house with 7 rooms, 3 bathrooms, garden, terrace, and Pool 2 half-furnished Room with bathroom and kitchen use(?)

oh maybe its rent on the renter house?

[plush pelican]

You're renting 2 of the rooms. There IS a pool, but you're not allowed to use it

[silent ore]

where is the word that they wont allow to use it

[plush pelican]

It said with bathroom and kitchen use

It didn't say "with pool use"

[silent ore]

fork why would they mention it at the beginninh 😡

[plush pelican]

If there is a list of things and they specifically say, "you're allowed to use things 1 and 3", that implies you're not allowed to use the others

[silent ore]

if you cant use it at the end

[plush pelican]

To be intentionally misleading, as some real ads will be

This has happened before:

https://youtu.be/VehE7aybFSA?si=nMupVAZH-ihoOqOf

[silent ore]

vielen dankk

[upbeat axle]

Hello, is the term ubergang at the barbershop used for ''fade'

?

or what exactly means that word w?

[long whale]

I guess it can be used for this, yes: https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/Übergang

[midnight vault]

I’m confused on the difference between the words “es” and “daran” because I was told that both of them meant “it”???????

[whole portal]

daran meaning it seems weird to me

but it can also mean a lot of things in English

[midnight vault]

I’m using a vocab book and it says this

[delicate tiger]

translation is correct, but "daran" has many translations depending on context and most have nothing to do with "it"

[plush pelican]

"an" is a preposition, like "mit"

Ich spiele mit dem Ball.

"mit dem Ball" is a prepositional phrase

"mit" is the preposition
"dem Ball" is the object of the preposition

Suppose you had already mentioned the ball before and didn't want to say it again. How would you refer to it?

For this, you can use a da- compound

Ich habe einen Ball. Ich spiele damit.

I have a ball. I play with it.

you can see the "mit" part of that already. And then the "da" part stands for "it"

damit = literally "it-with", but more naturally "with it"

You can do this with a bunch of prepositions:
für - dafür
an - daran
aus - daraus
bei - dabei

etc

so "daran" isn't really "it"; rather, it's "on it" or "at it" or something like that

Ich arbeite daran. = I'm working on it.

an etwas arbeiten = to work on something

[long whale]

Please don't post the same question in more than one channel! People will not realize a question has been answered elsewhere -> waste of time and effort.

[plush pelican]

like, for example, how Susana and I have both now answered your question...

[blazing quarry]

I’m out of words to thank you both! Feeling lucky that I found this channel.

[signal cipher]

@midnight vault These da compounds also has question versions. Dafür Wofür.
You can search Da compounds on google for more information.

[jade hawk]

My first thought when translating "that's all we wanted" was "Das ist alles, die wir wollten", but different translators also point to "was" instead of "die". I had thought that Relativsätze use only articles. What is this "was" here?

[long whale]

When your relative pronoun refers back to some indefinite thing/quantity (etwas, alles, nichts, etc.) you use "was" as a relative pronoun in Nom. and Akkusativ.

[jade hawk]

Could you give me an example of the activity part

[long whale]

Please forget it - I think I had a 🧠 💨 just now. 😅

[jade hawk]

Well alright thanks anyway

[long whale]

What I meant was: there are sentences like "What/The thing I'm interested in is whether you speak other languages" = "Was mich interessiert, ist, ob du andere Sprachen sprichst" where the relative pronoun what/was refers to the whole ob-clause. 😅 @jade hawk

[plush pelican]

Only in nominative and accusative? What happens in dative?

[flat dirge]

What is the best way I can improve my grammar so when I’m talking to someone I can say more things on the spot

[plain umbra]

There's a few different elements to this issue and it depends exactly where your struggle is. If you notice some particular things you struggle with, then it's best to mention them directly to get more specific advice.

But one thing is that when we do one-the-spot language stuff like speaking and listening, we rely a lot on phrasing that our brain has memorised. It's harder to come up with a new sentence compared to one you used before.

So generally speaking, a lot of exposure and practice with varieties of topics can help with that.

[flat dirge]

Oh okay so like reading and listening regularly can help with it. I think my main issue is that like I will learn a word and then the minute it shows up anywhere I instantly forget it

[plain umbra]

That's not a grammar issue though, that's vocab. My concern is that you specifically mentioned grammar, and although "practice and exposure" are good things to do in general, there are some grammar topics where a different approach is best.

[delicate sapphire]

Not sure if this really counts as a question been thinking do products like doulingo/babbel/whatever actually want you to learn a lauange. and how does that affect our lauange learning journy and i guess advice i give to people starting off.

[thorn zodiac]

Just a quick question, why is it "soll" in the below text and not "sollen", soll feels right here but sollen is what I would guess, since mein Mann + Ich, is technically plural, right?

Danke im Voraus

(edit note: My grammar book says this below is correct, with one being soll and one being sollen, can this be explained?)
3. Mein Sohn sagt, mein Mann und ich soll mehr Zeit für sie haben.

4. Meine Tochter sagt, mein Mann und ich sollen mehr Zeit für sie haben.

[long whale]

The only explanation is a typo/error in 3. - As a side note, this feels like a really unidiomatic sentence to me. 🤔

[fervent kernel]

Hallo! Ich möchte fragen, ob der Satz "Er stürzt sich auf zwei Sprache" "He dedicates himself to two languages." bedeutet? Wie übersetzt man "sich stürzen auf" genau? (Im Kontext des Satzes)

[long whale]

https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/sich+auf+etwas+stürzen 😄

As you can see, there are several possible translations. "sich auf etwas/jdn stürzen" mainly implies greedy enthusiasm. Which of those possibilities you choose is basically up to you. Or, after having had a look at the list under the above link, you may feel a different kind of phrasing might suit the context better, e.g. "He's enthusiastically immersing himself in 2 languages". 🤷

[fervent kernel]

Vielen Dank! 😄

[warped oriole]

Good question. You can only use "was".
Er ist jemand, dem Hilfe angeboten wird.
Es ist etwas, was Hilfe angeboten wird.
But I think it sounds very weird and I don't know if it's grammatically right.

@plush pelican I think you just can't do it in Dativ.

[plush pelican]

What do you do?

[plain umbra]

What about: Es ist etwas, dem Hilfe angeboten wird.

[long whale]

Yup, that's exactly how it works. (Not sure whether you're going to be happy about the ping.) @plush pelican @warped oriole

In case you want to know what happens with a preposition: you use a wo-compound (Das ist etwas, womit ich nicht gerechnet hatte/woran ich nicht gedacht hatte), and in Genitiv, you just use "dessen wessen" (Das ist etwas, dessen wessen ich nicht bedarf) ;)

[plain umbra]

Oh, so you don't use wessen for genitive? In Hammers it stated wessen is the genitive choice for relative pronoun "was" but maybe it didn't mean that you should use it that way.

[long whale]

This... frowning... I'll try to check, okay?

[plain umbra]

Sure. It's not super important since I don't expect to make a phrase like that very often.

[plush pelican]

Well, while looking up the "wessen" thing, I accidentally found a bit confirming what Susana said about "was" and dative

[rapid zodiac]

Sind (auto)mechaniker und kfz mechatroniker gleich?

[long whale]

Annnnd...? What did you find out about "wessen"? So far, both wiktionary and wikipedia have confirmed what Basementality said. -> I've now edited my post accordingly. (Interestingly, when I put my initial sentence through deepl write, choosing "korrigieren", it did not change it from "dessen" to "wessen". 🤕 ) @plain umbra

[warped oriole]

I'm always happy about pings

[plush pelican]

It doesn't say much, other than to say, "its only case form is the genitive wessen", and gives no examples

I mean, I know that that picture has an example, but that's not as a relative pronoun

[warped oriole]

Now that you've said it, it makes sense. I was confused.

English spelling is a nightmare.

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/nightmare-on-elm-street-gif-23538798

[long whale]

TIL

[rapid zodiac]

Sind (auto)mechaniker und kfz mechatroniker gleich?

[brave harbor]

kfz = auto und Motorrad, truck... - alle fahrzeuge
mechatroniker = mechaniker + elektroniker

[plain umbra]

I think the way it works is that, for those specific scenarios where "was" is the preferred relative pronoun, you're still allowed to use das instead. So, similarly, I assume that both wessen and dessen are allowed, but perhaps with wessen being strongly preferred.

But of course it's not like it's common to have a situation where you have an indefinite relative pronoun in genitive and even if you do, you can probably always just rephrase it, so I think the main issue is that it doesn't come up enough irl to have good examples.

[unique summit]

Is this sentence grammatically correct and makes sense in german?
-Ich habe gegessen und schlafen in mein haus

[jade hawk]

No. The perfekt verbs need to be at the end
You need to change mein to the dative case version corresponding with Haus's grammatical gender.
Schlafen is wrong, you need the perfekt version of that

[unique summit]

Okay, awesome thank you!

[long whale]

When you mean "in my home", "at home", it's usually "zu Hause" (fixed expression, just like "at home") in German.

[rapid zodiac]

difference between büro and büroraum?

[long whale]

Please don't ask the same question in more than one channel. People won't realize it has been answered elsewhere -> waste of time and effort. 🌻

[calm kernel]

"kannste dir nicht ausdenken" was bedeutet das?

[long whale]

"kannste" = colloquial form of "kannst du". Also, the Akkusativobjekt "das" has been dropped -> Das kannst Du...

[long whale]

I guess they can be helpful to acquire some very basic knowledge/vocab - provided you're the kind of learner they're aimed at. (This usually means: a person good at memorizing chunks of strange-sounding, and at least initially meaningless syllables.) Which IMO is the basic problem: people learn differently. There isn't really a one-size-fits-all method. Which also means those programmes simply aren't worth the money (if you have to pay for them). And of course, those claims along the lines of "Just buy the premium version and become fluent in a month by using it for 5 mins a day" (yes, I'm exaggerating, but unfortunately not all that much) are just ridiculous. 🤷

tl;dr Better recommend freely available learning material like https://learngerman.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-9528, or, if people aren't short of money, a few 1:1 lessons with a teacher from preply, verbling, italki, etc.