questions-2

[plush pelican]

What do I know? 😅

I suppose when it's "an jdn. richten" something is sent, then?

whereas "auf etw./jdn. richten", it's just "focused on", as you said earlier

nothing is necessarily sent

maybe?

Surprisingly, no one seems to have asked about this on GuteFrage or Quora or anything

[long whale]

I feel it might be more the expectation of getting something back after "richten an"?

[rare jetty]

The dialect from the screenshot is from Vorarlberg (the allemanic part of austria)

[plush pelican]

I didn't know Austria had an allemanic part, 😅

[whole portal]

Yeah no, I'm not sure what made you think that

My first thought with etw. auf jmd. richten was something along the lines of pointing a death ray at someone

[plush pelican]

Aiming a gun at someone is not the same as shooting them

[whole portal]

Huh

I didn't say shoot

I just don't see etw. auf jmd. richten ever have the meaning of sending something, an and auf seem very distinct here

funny how both anrichten and aufrichten are words of their own btw

[plush pelican]

But... I said it seemed like auf isn't sending something?

[whole portal]

Which to me implies that before that you thought it did

I'm confused about the confusion

[plush pelican]

No, it was in contrast to the sentence directly above it, my dude

[whole portal]

You didn't seem very confident maybe I am misreading this

[plush pelican]

"maybe?" Indicates that this overall thing is a proposed distinction that I'm not confident about

But I never said "auf" meant sending something; quite the opposite

[whole portal]

So where did you see the similarity then

[plush pelican]

How much more of the prior conversation do you want me to quote back to you, or would you like to just go back and read it?

[whole portal]

I did

I think I was looking at this from the wrong angle

I don't know where you found these originally, I suppose if you only have a few example it's not instantly clear

My bad

[plush pelican]

auf jdn. richten and an jdn. richten both seem to work in a figurative sense.

But apparently, they have mutually exclusive uses in the figurative sense.

I'm trying to figure out where that line lies

Hence my proposed distinction

[whole portal]

They work differently in non-figurative senses, no?

[plush pelican]

Can you use "an jdn. richten" in a non-figurative sense? I didn't see that

[whole portal]

well I actually wasn't sure about what you meant with that, yeah, I assumed you meant just "addressing a person" vs "addressing a topic"

[plush pelican]

I mean, if you're addressing a topic, you aren't turning to face a topic

There's not a topic in the room that you can face towards

[whole portal]

Yes, that's the figurative one but would you count addressing a person as figurative too?

[plush pelican]

Are you turning to face them or simply talking about them?

[whole portal]

about?

[plush pelican]

Figurative

[whole portal]

I think I am missing a meaning of the word about here

[plush pelican]

If my anger is directed at you, I don't have a physical object called "anger" that I am pointing at you

[whole portal]

etw. an jemanden richten means you are talking to that person

[plush pelican]

Oh, so you are turning to face them?

[whole portal]

Yes

[plush pelican]

If you literally face towards them, that's literal, no?

[whole portal]

I'm still not sure if we are discussing the basic meaning of the phrase or some nuance

[whole portal]

I'd think so

[plush pelican]

So there is some literal usage of "an etw./jdn. richten", then 🤔

[whole portal]

yeah, that's what I would associate with it first tbh

In your example sentence, the "Verantwortungsbewusstsein" just kinda gets personified, the book is addressing/talking to that part of them/their conscience

I think to address, maybe appeal to is a fine translation

(and auf etw. richten is just point, direct, focus towards)

[icy flax]

Eines Tages schaffe ich auch, eine solche hocheffiziente Antwort zu gestalten. Wenn K1, dann ein fakultativer einleitender Hauptsatz und der Rest voll in K1 außer* wenn K1 = Präsens, was dann K2 verlangt

Geil, huh?! Finde ich auch super toll 🤓

[long whale]

*außer wenn K1 = Präsens ;)

[long whale]

Na ja, der einleitende Satz ist nicht fakultativ. Z.B. funktioniert es nicht so, wie Du es ursprünglich formuliert hattest: Ich glaube, sie habe gesagt... -> Ich glaube, die Autorin sagt/meint (o.ä.), sie habe...

[grim wind]

er hat es mir gestern geschrieben
Or
er hat es gestern mir
geschrieben
Or
gestern hat er es mir geschrieben

[long whale]

1 or 3

[grim wind]

Ok thank u

[vernal ermine]

Can I know what is the difference between all, alle, alles ? bitte

[long whale]

alle sind da = everybody is here

alles ist da = everything is here

all[e] meine Bücher = all of my books

mit all[en] meinen Büchern = with all of my books

alle Bücher = all books

mit allen Büchern = with all books

[vernal ermine]

So does this "all "acts as an adjective in this sentence?

[kind knoll]

Alles is not an adjective

[long whale]

https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/all

[vernal ermine]

But I see declension as that of a adjective in that sentence.

I am just confused only with all.

Does anyone have a good sentence to explain it clearly.

[gloomy tartan]

In Zukunft könnte es neue Technologien geben, die Einfluss auf die Erderwärmung nehmen können

I saw this sentence in a grammar book. Can you really say in Zukunft? I've only heard in der Zukunft

[long whale]

Yes, you can. It's a bit as if you could say "future-ly" in English. ;) -> If you want to say sth like "I want to travel to the future", you'd have to use the def. article: Ich möchte in die Zukunft reisen. Resp. "I desire/wish for a better future for my children" = Ich wünsche mir eine bessere Zukunft für meine Kinder.

[gloomy tartan]

Danke! But it that case, writing "in der Zukunft" in my sentence would have the same meaning, right?

[long whale]

all[+ optional ending] + def. article/possessive determiner etc. + noun

[vernal ermine]

@long whale how we tell "all types of films "in german?

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank

I feel this " all "acts like that of dies-,welch-.

[long whale]

Nnn... not quite. Basically, "in Zukunft" = künftig ~ [in the upcoming time, counting] from now on; i.e. in the time given to me/you/us; in the near future. "in der Zukunft" = in the far future, possibly many, many years after all of us are dead. So, if you said sth like "Okay, I got a bad grade in this exam. From now on, I'll study more", "in Zukunft" would be an excellent choice. "in der Zukunft" would sound quite strange - at least to me. 🌻

[long whale]

There is a noun right after "all" -> "all-" requires the appropriate ending.

[vernal ermine]

So can it be " Alle Typen von Filme.?

[long whale]

No. Please use https://www.deepl.com/translator#en/de/all types of movies !!

[vernal ermine]

Sorry.

@long whale Thanks a lot.

[south zenith]

would Filme aller Art also work

[vernal ermine]

I didn't studied like this form without preposition with noun in the front.

[south zenith]

its using the genitive ending and is more akin to 'films of all kinds' ig

[vernal ermine]

But I feel articles comes before filme according to genitiv.

[south zenith]

the 'aller' is acting kind of like an article hier, 'Filme' can be whatever case i need depending on the sentence
'Dort gibt es Filme aller Art' - Filme is accusative, aller Art is genitive

[vernal ermine]

I understand now. Thanks 🤝

[icy flax]

Dank Dir, dieser Unterschied war mir fremd.

Susana, eine Frage um Wahrnehmung/Nuancen zwischen normalem und gehobenem Deutsch. Wenn man "des Weiteren" statt "außerdem" zum Beispiel sagt, geht man damit das Risiko ein, dass der Empfänger dich als zu förmlich und deswegen auch distanziert -- vielleicht sogar snob/arrogant -- empfinden kann? Wenn ich mich solche Fragen stelle, denk ich an meine Sprache, und trotz der Subjektivät glaub ich, ich würde in dieser Person keinen freundlichen warmen Menschen einsehen.

[long whale]

*eine Frage zur Wahrnehmung der Nuancen; der Empfänger der andere; der Gesprächspartner; snobistisch; wenn ich mir solche Fragen stelle; einsehen sehen - I'm definitely the wrong person for this. A lack formality might have a negative influence on how I perceive a person, never the opposite. 🤷

[icy flax]

Vielen Dank!

[limpid trout]

just checking: would a dependant clause with "und" connecting verbs be structured like [Subject Object Verb "und" Object Verb]? i.e.
"Spinnen Georg, der in einer Höhle wohnt und täglich über 10.000 Spinnen isst, ist ein Ausreißer."

[long whale]

Since the "und" connects 2 parts of a relative clause here, subordinate clause word order (conjugated verb shifted to the end) applies to both parts. 🌻

[limpid trout]

so, was that right?

[long whale]

Was the sentence correct? Yes. 🌻

[limpid trout]

thank you! danke schön

[upbeat lily]

Any usage difference between

Kannst du mir (bitte) die Uhrzeit sagen
Und
Wie spät ist es?

Both = what time is it

🤔 Is one more used than the other

Or something

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-incrives-meme-meme-react-gif-25029710

Or are they always interchangeable

[long whale]

Yes, they both work, and they both mean the same, but... eh... basically, I'd say it's like the difference between "Could you please tell me the time of the clock?" and "What time is it?"

[upbeat lily]

I see Danke

[grim wind]

Is this correct

Mein Bruder wohnt glaube ich in diesem Haus

[plush pelican]

put commas around "glaube ich"

[grim wind]

Which one is more correct
Ich glaube mein Bruder in diesem House wohnen

[plush pelican]

You're not conjugating the verb correctly, which is probably because you don't realize that that is 2 separate clauses, not one

you need commas, my dude

With "glauben", the clause after it can be either a main clause or a dependent clause. But if it's a dependent clause, you need the "dass" in it.

Ich glaube, dass mein Bruder in diesem Haus wohnt.

Ich glaube, mein Bruder wohnt in diesem Haus wohnen.

In the second clause, "mein Bruder" is the subject, "wohnen" is the main verb that has to be conjugated to match "mein Bruder"

[dense lion]

Gibt es ein deutsches Wort für "Babysitting"
Ich hab einen kleinen Bruder (1 Jahr) Ich sag es meine Freunde, wenn ich zum Beispiel zu Hause viel zu tun habe(dass ich babysitten muss) Ist der Satz (Ich muss babysitten) so inhaltlich korekt? oder falsch?

[ember lotus]

You could also use aufpassen auf (+ Akk.) I’d say, but babysitten is also correct.

[long whale]

"Ich muss babysitten" is perfectly correct. (The rest of your sentence has a few issues, though.)

[weak jacinth]

Oh shoot sry both are meant to use Sie, I wanted to ask if the different placement of bitte would change anything

[echo sleet]

I mean I'd say no in writing
Tho the "bitte" attached at the end feels like the person saying this forgot to be formal at first
it feels like smt you attached just to sound more formal

[long whale]

see Namureta's post - it doesn't change anything, meaning-wise, if that's what you meant. 🌻

[modest chasm]

Kann mir jemand erklären das: "Ich bin zum Bahnhof gefahren." aber " Ich habe den Sohn zum Bahnhof gefahren"

Meine Lektorin hat dieses Beispiel gezeigt, aber ich habe das nicht verstanden

[long whale]

If you use a verb like fahren or fliegen transitively, i.e. with a direct object/Akkusativobjekt, the auxiliary changes from "sein" to "haben".

Look at the 1st sentence: is there an Akkusativobjekt? No! -> auxiliary is "sein" (as per usual)

Look at the 2nd sentence: is there an Akkusativobjekt? Yes! - auxiliary is "haben"

[modest chasm]

Ah, danke, das macht Sinn jetzt

[gloomy tartan]

How would you with Perfektpartizip II of müssen (gemusst) say, "He had to go home early"?

Er hat gemusst, früh nach Hause gehen?

Or maybe Er hat früh nach Hause gehen müssen? (not gemusst though)

[long whale]

Outside of grammar books (and in dialect), you wouldn't/won't. You just use Präteritum for the modal. Modal verbs require an infitnitive without "zu", btw.

[long whale]

Yes, that one works.

[gloomy tartan]

Thanks man! That sort of sentence with two infinitive verbs is freaking awesome!

[long whale]

(Still not really used, though.)

[weak jacinth]

oooh, Ich sehe. Danke schön! Du kannst sehr gut eklären : )

Warum ist es geschreiben als "Kannst du mir bei den Hausaufgaben helfen." in meine Goethe Anki Cards. Ist nicht es "Kannst du mir mit den Hausaufgaben helfen"? Vielen dank 🙂

[long whale]

Warum ist es geschreiben als steht "Kannst du mir bei den Hausaufgaben helfen." in meinen Goethe Anki Cards. Ist es nicht... - No. It's usually "jemandem bei etwas helfen" for "to help somebody with something". If you want to say sth like "You helped me a lot by [answering my questions]", "Du hast mir damit (by-this/with-this) sehr geholfen" is what we'd say. ;)

[weak jacinth]

ooh, so in this specific context u cant just direct-translate "help me with" to "helfen mir mit-"? U must always use "bei"?

[long whale]

Some people do use "mit" instead of "bei" (English interference?). I'd say the Goethe-version is the preferred one in Standard German, though. 🤷

[acoustic breach]

Btw, "i see" (as in " I understand") cannot be translated as "ich sehe"

Sorry, wrong ping

[acoustic breach]

This

[long whale]

Is the spelling error in your nick intentional? @acoustic breach

[acoustic breach]

No

Ah Missing an "e"?

Wait

[long whale]

Now it works.

[acoustic breach]

Ah thank you for pointing out!

[limpid trout]

very specific miscellaneous query

in the event of Futur II with a Modalverb
what exactly happens with word placement?

[plush pelican]

https://deutschegrammatik20.de/spezielle-verben/modalverben/konjugation-modalverben-futur-ii-2/

Futur II Aktiv mit Modalverb = Präsens von werden + Infinitiv von haben + Infinitiv Vollverb + Infinitiv Modalverb

Beispiel:
Präsens – Futur II
Er kann das Auto kaufen. – Er wird das Auto haben kaufen können.
Peter muss am Wochenende arbeiten. – Peter wird am Wochenende haben arbeiten müssen.
Sie will das nicht glauben. – Sie wird das nicht haben glauben wollen.
Ihr Vater darf das nicht wissen. – Ihr Vater wird das nicht haben wissen dürfen.

Apparently, I was wrong; wow, this is fun

I think Ersatzinfinitiv stuff is at play here

With the modal verbs and a few others, they belong to a group of "Ersatzinfinitiv" verbs or "double infinitive" verbs, which messes with order of verbs a bit:

https://www.colanguage.com/double-infinitive-german

[brave gust]

"Sie fragt, wann der Kurs anfängt". oder "Sie fragt, wann der Kurs fängt an" ?

[plush pelican]

anfängt

if the verb is going to the end anyway, you put them together again

[brave gust]

ohhh ok ok thank you

[limpid trout]

see what confuses me is that the perfekt seems to take priority over modals usually
i.e. "ich habe das spielen können"
which makes my brain want to go "ich werde das spielen können haben"

[plush pelican]

Right, that makes sense

The problem is precisely the Ersatzinfinitiv shit I mentioned earlier

it moves around where you put the helping verb "haben"

Let's use a simpler tense and shit and talk about Ersatzinfinitiv in a Nebensatz (dependent clause).

You can see that once again, the helping verb "haben" is being put before those two verbs, the main verb and the modal verb

So those 2 verbs are sort of bound together, both in infinitive form, hence the name "double infinitive"

and then "haben" gets put before them

If we then go back to the Futur 2 stuff:

Er wird das Auto haben kaufen können.

Again, we're seeing those two verbs, the main verb and the modal verb, both in infinitive form, and the "haben" gets put before them.

[limpid trout]

but most places specify that it's the subordinate clause-
unless Futur werden works vaguely like a subordinate clause but with an infinitive?

[plush pelican]

It's the modal verb that causes this double infinitive stuff

the "können" or "wollen" or whatever

regardless of what form it's in, it messes with things

Do you know about the concept of the verbal bracket?

[limpid trout]

haven't heard it mentioned by name before

[plush pelican]

Well, you know there's 2 spots to put verbs in a main clause, right?

There's "position 2" and then "near the end where a bunch of verbs pile up"

[kind knoll]

my favorite grammar rule, the "near the end where a bunch of berbs pile up"

[plush pelican]

Those spots have names:

position 2 is the "linke Satzklammer" (left verbal bracket)
"near the end where a bunch of verbs pile up" is the "rechte Satzklammer" (right verbal bracket)

They're called this, because they sort of make a bracket around most of the sentence:

Ich kann [ heute morgen mit meinem Bruder im Park ] spielen.

"kann" is in the linke Satzklammer
"spielen" is in the rechte Satzklammer

When you have more than 2 verbs, stuff usually piles up in the right one in reverse order.

Ich werde1 meinem Bruder geholfen3 haben2.
I will1 have2 helped3 my brother.

The linke Satzklammer is tiny, it can only hold one conjugated verb. Everything else gets shoved into the rechte Satzklammer

In the case of separable verbs, the linke Satzklammer isn't even big enough to fit all of that verb in it, and so the prefix has to be chopped off and sent to the rechte Satzklammer.

Ich fange heute an.

So you can see that there's a general idea of "this one spot where the conjugated verb or helping verb or whatever is, and then this other spot that holds all the other stuff."

Ich habe mit ihm gespielt.
Ich habe mit ihm spielen können.

When you have an Ersatzinfinitiv in a Nebensatz, for example:

Er hat gesagt, dass er das Kind nicht hat weinen hören.

You can think of that as being like, "well, 'haben' can't go into the linke Satzklammer in the Nebensatz (because there is none)...so why don't we just scooch it and put it just to the left of the rechte Satzklammer", with (weinen hören) being in the rechte Satzklammer.

Er hat gesagt, dass er das Kind nicht hat (weinen hören).

And I suppose the idea is the same for Futur 2: "werden" is taking up the linke Satzklammer, so again the "haben" has to go somewhere. But because of the modal verb, you've got this double infinitive, the main verb and the modal verb both in infinitive and bound together, and so once again, we end up putting "haben" just to the left of the rechte Satzklammer.

Er wird das Auto haben (kaufen können).

---

But you know, practically speaking, Futur 2 is incredibly rare, let alone Futur 2 with a modal verb, so you would almost never even have to think about a sentence like this.

[tall brook]

.

[limpid trout]

see the reason i was asking is because was trying to make my way on my own to an even more useless "tense": Futur II + Modalverb + Passiv

[brave gust]

"BIS der Bus endlich kommt, muss er etwa 15 Minuten an der Bushaltestelle warten. "oder "BEVOR der Bus endlich kommt, muss er etwa 15 Minuten an der Bushaltestelle warten."

[plush pelican]

You like a challenge, I see 😅

I found a website talking about that: https://blog.leo.org/2019/12/06/passiv-futur-ii-mit-modalverb/

Question:

For Futur 2 in passive with modal verb there are varying indications of the form:

I know that Futur 2 is rather seldom used in daily life; however we need the grammatical form for the test. Can you please help me.

Answer:

Good day Mrs. S,

The passive of Futur 2 with modal verb is not merely "rather seldom" used, but rather barely ever used. Accordingly, in my opinion it doesn't make sense to use this form in a test. Most German speakers, if they are even able to, can build the form only after long hestitating and much doubt. In order to be sure, even I had to derive this form, for I get into a muddle with all the verb forms trying to do it spontaneously. However, as you have posed the question, I will attempt to answer it:

Blah blah blah, then we get to this, where they show the active version of the tenses first, and then the passive versions:

[long whale]

feeling dizzy

[plush pelican]

and finally:

With this approach, the passive future 2 with modal verb can theoretically be computed, for it is never actually used. That can be the reason why you find other forms in the internet. In grammar, in the end, that which is right, is that, which is used. It's not possible to say here what is actually "usual".

Usual is here much more (As Futur 2 serves mostly to express an assumption):

Er hat wahrscheinlich operiert werden müssen.
Man hat ihn vermutlich operieren müssen.

Friendly greetings

Dr. Bopp

[long whale]

❤️ Dr. Bopp ❤️

[limpid trout]

most intriguing
danke schön

[brave gust]

"BIS der Bus endlich kommt, muss er etwa 15 Minuten an der Bushaltestelle warten. "oder "BEVOR der Bus endlich kommt, muss er etwa 15 Minuten an der Bushaltestelle warten."

help

bevor or bis

[long whale]

Seems strange to me using "bevor/before" - you wouldn't say "he has to wait before the bus arrives", either, would you? 🤔

[brave gust]

I KNEW IT

danki

frosti

[plush pelican]

I mean, maybe?

"Bob has such a stressful morning. He has to wake up at 5 am, get dressed, then walk an hour and a half to the bus stop. Before the bus finally comes, he has to (then) wait 15 further minutes at the bus stop."

This is another area I need to work on. Idk that I ever use "bis" as a conjunction when writing; I need to internalize its usage more

[long whale]

Why doesn't Bob just leave the house 10 minutes later? - The thing is... "Pumpkin, you have to wait at the bus stop until Mommy arrives!" right? Why is it that this one definitely doesn't work with "before" - or does it?

[plush pelican]

I don't know why, but I think you're right that "before" doesn't work there.

[limpid trout]

before: prior to a condition becoming true
until: during the duration where a condition is false

[long whale]

Mostly idle curiosity, but do you happen to know whether there's a special name for those strange verb pairs like trinken/tränken, futtern/füttern, saugen/säugen?

@plush pelican

[plush pelican]

Verben mit Vokalwechsel? 😅

That's probably not the official word, but you do see people call them that

https://mein-deutschbuch.de/starke-und-unregelmaessige-verben.html

[long whale]

Oh. Oops. No, no, nothing whatsoever to do with that.

Der Bauer trinkt Bier vs. Der Bauer tränkt die Kühe (er gibt ihnen Wasser/etwas zu trinken). Der Junge futtert Chips (~ gobbles/is gobbling chips) vs. Der Junge füttert die Hunde. Das Baby saugt am Fläschchen vs. Die Hundemutter säugt die Welpen (lets her puppies... ehh... no idea. "suckles"?)

[plush pelican]

wait, what?

tränkt?

[long whale]

Yup.

[plush pelican]

So verbs that get a Vokalwechsel/change in order to apply to animals instead?

[long whale]

tränken/füttern/säugen = to give (drink/food/milk)

[plush pelican]

Can the receiver be a human?

[long whale]

I'm not sure the animals aren't co-incidental. There might be more of these, I just can't think of any. Apparently, https://www.dwds.de/wb/säugen is just obsolete for humans now.

[plush pelican]

Yeah, I wasn't aware that this was a whole category of verbs, so I have no idea what they're called

[long whale]

Well, it occurred to me today that these seemed to be interesting pairs, and since there isn't just one of them - oh, do you think: fallen/fällen, too? I thought there might be a name for this. 🤷

[plush pelican]

https://www.sprachlog.de/2009/11/16/kausativa/

"Kausativa" 😮

[long whale]

Yay!

🏅

Thank you, Argus! ❤️ Wanting to say "Wow, this is so cool, isn't it?" should probably make me feel terminally nerdy, but, oh, well.

[plush pelican]

We're all language learners here

/language enthusiasts

[high flume]

Guys hello I'm new here and been learning German for a while now, I'm not sure what is the difference between question servers but here is my question:

I've been learning German on Duolingo and here is the sentence

I can never sleep on New Year's Eve.

My answer: Ich kann nie an Silvester schlafen

Correct one (according to duolingo): Ich kann an Silvester nie schlafen.

I'm still not sure how flexible German is, so is my answer wrong or it should have been accepted?

[long whale]

This may or my not help: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/221709483284496394/1195460354084458557/Wortstellung_German_word_order.png?ex=65cfc1b6&is=65bd4cb6&hm=ece8881f4812846655468fad6f823a65bed130743631317a0dabc3875f0e96c7&

[plush pelican]

I suppose "an Silvester" won't ever count as a Verbgefährte? 😄

[long whale]

IMO, in this case, duolingo is right - your version seems... odd to me.

[high flume]

Alright, I will be working on the word order

thank you all

[plush pelican]

@high flume You might want to learn about the concept of "TeKaMoLo", which is the "neutral" order of adverbs in a sentence

That's shown here with the "Temporal, Kausal, Modal, Lokal" stuff

There's also the "Verbgefährte" category near the end of the sentence, which is frustratingly kind of vague

Long story short: Word order in German is...complicated 😅

I've been learning for a while and I still mess it up occasionally

[kind knoll]

I never learnt these tbh, i just glossed over them

[high flume]

oof, well let me check TeKaMoLo thingy

[plush pelican]

Here's a page on Verbgefährte

[high flume]

Thank you again, I will be working on these topics

Sometimes I get suspicious of duolingo's trustiness, I am still new at German but I didn't really think mine was wrong xd

[plush pelican]

Sometimes, Duolingo is wrong

But a lot of the time, the issue is that there is some grammar topic which Duolingo has failed to teach you

which is what makes Duolingo so frustrating

[high flume]

Yeah, it is always practice

not much teaching

[plush pelican]

Yeah, you should use Duolingo as a supplement to something else, and that something else should be what you use to learn the grammar

[kind knoll]

Or, don't use duolingo at all

[high flume]

any suggestions for better alternatives?

[kind knoll]

Die Welle, Easy German, i heard good things about babel, anki, textbooks

[high flume]

thank you, I will be checking those

[plush pelican]

Nicos Weg from DW Learn German: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/nicos-weg/c-36519789

[long whale]

... or https://deutschlernerblog.de/

@plush pelican do you happen to know of any issues re the above website? Why don't people recommend this more?

[plush pelican]

🤷‍♂️ I've never used it before.

[long whale]

I came across it today, because it was mentioned on some official website I found when looking for info about DSH.

[kind knoll]

I think its because there's no English version and the design is a,bit outdated

[acoustic breach]

Someone asked for a translation of this sentence :

This is a problem for me and my friends to talk about

I would say: das ist ein Problem, worüber ich und meine Freunde reden sollen

But this is probably a little off in terms of tone and slight nuance (maybe?), so would this work?

Das ist ein Problem für mich und meine Freunde zu reden

The problem with this is that the Präposition "über" is lacking

[acoustic breach]

@runic wing

[runic wing]

danke.

[wet halo]

Ich denke eher er will damit ausdrücken, dass er Probleme hat mit seinen Freunden darüber zu reden

"Es ist ein Problem für mich, mit meinen Freunden darüber zu reden" wäre meine Übersetzung

[acoustic breach]

Ich denke nicht. Er meinte, dass das Problem für ihn und seine Freunde ist, und über dieses Problem sollen sie reden

"That's a problem for us to talk about"

[wet halo]

Dann ist deins schon richtig

[acoustic breach]

Auch die Zweite? (Das ist ein Problem für mich und meine Freunde zu reden)

[wet halo]

Darüber zu reden ist ein Problem für mich und meine Freunde.
Würde besser passen

Über das Problem zu sprechen ist schwierig für mich und meine Freunde... usw

[wet halo]

Das ergibt nicht wirklich einen Sinn

[acoustic breach]

Eh das wurde nicht gemeint😅

Die Bedeutung ist eher "das ist ein Thema" statt "ein Problem"

[wet halo]

Achso sorry

[acoustic breach]

Ungefähr wie "Das ist ein Thema, worüber man reden soll"

[wet halo]

Bin zu müde dir da n guten Satz zu geben

[acoustic breach]

Alles gut xd

[plush pelican]

When speaking in sci-fi terms, what do you call the various alien "races"? I know "Rassen" basically isn't used anymore, except to mean like, dog breeds

[long whale]

Correct. Hard to answer in general. Just name them? Marsianer verstehen sich nicht mit Venusiern. Es kommt stets zu Konflikten, wenn Aliens unterschiedlicher Herkunft aufeinandertreffen. Bei einer Konferenz der UA (United Aliens) sitzen alle Arten von Aliens nebeneinander: Triklopen von Pluto, Oktopoden von Elkoprah, etc.

Instead of "Herkunft" you could use "Gestalt" (if they're physically different), or "unterschiedliche Typen von Aliens".

Der Alien, den ich gerade vor mir hatte, gehörte zu einem ganz anderen Typus als alle anderen, die ich je getroffen hatte.

[long whale]

No, Das ist ein Problem für mich und meine Freunde zu reden is 100% non-viable. I'd slightly rephrase your 1st suggestion: Über dieses Problem sollten meine Freunde und ich uns [einmal/demnächst/unbedingt] unterhalten OR Meine Freunde und ich sollten dieses Problem diskutieren. Please note it's customary to always mention the other person first in German: ich und Tom -> Tom und ich

[acoustic breach]

@runic wing

[acoustic breach]

Is there an explanation for why it doesn't work? I know that there is a structure (irrc) "noun + zu Infinitiv" like "der Schatz ist nirgendwo zu finden" (the treasure is nowhere to be found).

Is it not applicable here?

[long whale]

Yup, the one about the treasure works. But - please keep in mind I'm anything but an authority on grammar, okay? - as far as I know, the subject of the main/introductory clause is also the subject of the infinitive clause in German -> Es ist ein Problem für mich und meine Freunde [miteinander] zu reden = My friends and I have problems talking to each other, i.e. the problem is the talking.

[acoustic breach]

AH

now I understand the problem

[rare jetty]

Spezies

(ist eine Möglichkeit)

[acoustic breach]

Thank you!!

[weak jacinth]

Ooh wait so is it Ich verstehe ?

[long whale]

Exactly. 🌻

[weak jacinth]

Ich verstehe nau, danke schön 🙂

[fringe void]

why do certain animals have der and others have die ? ;-;

nvm i know now :^

[echo sleet]

Gerne

[plush pelican]

"Sie waren also eine der schnellsten Spezies in der Galaxis beim Erfinden der Raumfahrt"?

[warped oriole]

Möchtest du sagen, dass sie schnell fortschritt beim Erfinden gemacht haben oder einer der ersten waren, die Raumfahrt betrieben haben?

[plush pelican]

One of the first to invent spaceflight

@warped oriole

[runic wing]

Danke sehr viel!

[torpid lark]

Halloooo

[warped oriole]

Dann würde ich das lieber so schreiben: "Sie waren eine der ersten Spezies in der Galaxis, die die Raumfahrt entwickelten."
Oder so ähnlich.

Gibt bestimmt noch schönere Wege das zu schreiben.

[jade hawk]

Is übrigens abbrieviated to something like übr just like by the way is to btw?

[pure crescent]

no

[tiny scaffold]

I mean if you make it into one then it will probaby catch on

übg

😛

[pure crescent]

übs

😂

[tiny scaffold]

Rub a düb dübz

[plush pelican]

Sounds like "oops" in a German accent 🤣

[tiny scaffold]

My German friend writes "yup" as "jap" 😂

[jade hawk]

it would be ueb instead, ü takes too much effort to write

[charred harbor]

Wübsi düsi

[lament merlin]

can "eltern" be used for anyone older than you or is it just your grandparents

[long whale]

Neither. It's exclusively for your parents.

[lament merlin]

oh i assumed it was a german version of english "elders"

[plush pelican]

What's the English version of "elders"? 😄

[long whale]

Those may well have the same root, now that you mention it. 🌻

[plush pelican]

Do you call anyone older than you an "elder"?

[lament merlin]

not most but i would define those older than me as my elders

[plush pelican]

Even a woman who's like 40 and you're 35?

[lament merlin]

ya

[plush pelican]

This usage of "elders" is not familiar to me, as a native speaker

Except perhaps in the set phrase "respect your elders", but usually that mostly means your parents/grandparents, and it's a set phrase.

[lament merlin]

i blame it on reginal dialects like alot of people dont use folk anymore

[plush pelican]

Which region are you from?

[lament merlin]

USA, Midwest, Indiana

and even here its not common

[plush pelican]

You'd call an older coworker an "elder" to her face?

[lament merlin]

i would define her that way but i personnaly wouldnt adress her as elder as there are more fitting things to call her

[plush pelican]

Would you call her an elder when speaking to someone else about her?

[lament merlin]

if we were talking about our reltive ages than ya

[plush pelican]

Or when would you actually use the word "elder" for her?

No, that's "older"

And that's a comparative

[lament merlin]

if i was describing her age compared to mine i would she is my elder

[plush pelican]

When would you use "elder" as a noun to talk about her?

[lament merlin]

proably never

ive never used it for my grandparents i define them as my elder but i dont say it to them

[plush pelican]

"she is my elder" I recognize, but that's again a comparative really

[lament merlin]

ya thats what im saying

[plush pelican]

..when do you say "elder(s)" as a noun?

[lament merlin]

"she/he/they is my elder" "I am your elder"

[plush pelican]

I see

[calm kernel]

guys someone is sending a meme on my dms the whole time thats says ''swans in mei arch'' or smt like that it was a twitch girl can someone explain what is means?

[echo sleet]

Look dm

[plush pelican]

It means they're trying to catfish you, most likely

And/or get you to subscribe to their Twitch

[red palm]

"Abends, wenn Julien im blauen Anzug erschien, war
nie von Geschäften die Rede."

"Eines Tages nach der morgendlichen Besprechung__, in
schwarzem Anzug__ und über Geschäfte, amüsierte Julien
den Marquis so sehr, daß dieser ihn zwei Stunden
bei sich behielt und ihm unbedingt mehrere Geldscheine
geben wollte, die sein Strohmann eben von der
Börse gebracht hatte."

"Es gilt nicht dem Mann
im schwarzen Anzug, und es würde dem Benehmen
sehr schaden, das Sie bei dem Mann im blauen Anzug
so gütig dulden."

Why is it "in schwarzem Anzug" in the second one, but "im schwarzen/blauen Anzug" in the other ones? It feels kinda the same, it is dative in all cases. It is probably super simple but I have been thinking and I can't find a solution.
I know that the ending for dative adjectives when nothing is used before the adjective is -em, -er, -em, -en, but I don't understand why in one place is "im" and the other "in".

[long whale]

im blauen/schwarzen Anzug = dressed in the blue/black suit; in blauem/schwarzem Anzug = blue-suited/black suited -> the 2nd version has neither a def. or an indef. article, so, possibly, Julian has lots of blue or black suits.

This seems a literary text, so, they just used the 2 different versions to vary a bit - the interesting thing is the changing colour of Julian's suit here, not the question of whether he has only the 1 suit of each colour, or lots of them.

[red palm]

yeah, as I said, it was something super easy (tbh this is kinda basic) but for some reason I couldn't see it because I was thinking of more complicated stuff...

he has only one blue suit but more black suits, so it makes sense

[long whale]

-> you're right, they amount to the same thing. It's just that the adjective declension has to change, according to where or not there is an article.

[red palm]

yeah, what annoys me the most is that I have read this stuff and I knew it but for some reason I had thought about this passage the whole night (I read it yesterday) and not even once I thought that this would be the solution.

it's like "in the black suit" vs "In a black suit" in English, it's pretty simply, I am so annoyed now

anyway, thank you and sorry for wasting your time

[long whale]

No, no, don't worry, this kind of thing happens to everyone learning a language. You're very welcome. 🌻

[fervent kernel]

So you mean "jack is going to a trip" is aktiv?

What's the passive form ?

[long whale]

Try in English... 😹

[fervent kernel]

I'm confused myself tbh

Jack went to a trip?

[long whale]

Look, there are exceptions, but basically, a verb needs a direct object for the passive voice to work. How much sense would Jack is being gone on a trip [by his parents] make?

[fervent kernel]

Oh so that's how passiv is

Vielen dank, prost

[long whale]

I (subject) am eating the apple (direct object/Akkusativobjekt -> The apple (now the subject) is being eaten [by me]

[final marlin]

*Frost

The apple is eating/devouring me. --> I am being eaten/devoured by the apple.

[long whale]

missing the emoji for the man-eating apple

[plush pelican]

You know that Basementality is giving a lesson on passive right now, right?

[kind knoll]

Come on in we are still in the beginning bud

[fervent kernel]

I joined very late

[kind knoll]

its still exercise one

[plush pelican]

I believe afterwards, the recording will be available for rewatching

[fervent kernel]

Where?

I'm busy rn so could be useful

[plush pelican]

I forget where I saw them before

[fervent kernel]

Thanks for the info tho

[plush pelican]

sorry

[fervent kernel]

It's ok you atleast gave me some info, I'm grateful for it

[long whale]

#985224391849807872 I think 🤔

[charred harbor]

As close as I could find

[fervent kernel]

Thank you. May you achieve everything in your life good man/woman 👍

[vernal ermine]

Is being gone to a trip by Jack. But the sentence you gave is also wrong. better is Jack made a trip.

[fervent kernel]

Hey, are you indian?

And thanks for the info

[long whale]

I think I'd already asked you before to refrain from "correcting" other users' English. Would you rather be told the same thing by a moderator? 🌻

[fathom raft]

Ate and left no crumbs 🔥

[charred harbor]

"Jack made a trip" isn't idiomatic in English either fwiw

[vernal ermine]

He didn't understand how to make passiv in English then how he can understand in German?

[vernal ermine]

Moreover you only told to make it in English.

[vague rain]

Hallo, I've been learning adjektives recently and have also tried watching some videos but im still pretty confused, ive also used this chart which has been very helpful

^

my question is why you use "elektronischen" here instead of "elektronische"

Schalte alle elektronischen Geräte aus.

[plain umbra]

faq adjective declension

[stoic mauve]

Adjective Declension

A Brief Guide to Memorizing German Noun and Adjective Declension by Basementality
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jWl5-kkqF3FQLDzrz8XLBJj7hvPFQK7MT5SYEDGK65E/edit

[plain umbra]

Can you explain your reason for why you think it should be -e?

Maybe the part you're confused about is alle?

Alle acts like definite article in adjective declension.

[vague rain]

so it works as if it was "die" ?

[plain umbra]

Yes.

[vague rain]

ok that explains it... because ive pretty much memorized this graph other than genetiv because i havent got to that yet

and i kept looking at the plural of akkusativ

but yeah that explain it vielen dank 🙂

[plain umbra]

This chart is missing the indefinite declension for plural.

Check this one out to be sure you understand it all: http://germanforenglishspeakers.com/adjectives/adjective-declensions/

[vague rain]

this bit?

[plain umbra]

Yeah.

[vague rain]

yep i got them! 🙂 vielen dank

[lapis vessel]

Hii
Can anyone gimme some tips to pass the listening part of the German exam?

[long whale]

Practice listening...? E.g. by using sites like https://deutschlernerblog.de/hoerverstehen-deutsch-uebungen-zum-hoerverstehen-a1-bis-c2/ 🌻

[lapis vessel]

ahh okayy ty

[outer edge]

hi, in this phrase:
Ich weiß, dass es sehr schwer ist in einem neuen Land.
would it be wrong to say instead:
"Ich weiß, dass es sehr schwer in einem neuen Land ist"
?

[candid sapphire]

No, that's not wrong. The second sentence would sound even better ^^

[outer edge]

oh
thanks

[kind knoll]

because we have a subordinate clause with dass here, the verb is at the end

[long whale]

I think you'd usually go for "Ich weiß, dass es in einem neuen Land sehr schwer ist", though. 🌻

[finite mason]

Hallo ich habe eine kleine Frage
Ich glaube ich verstehe den Unterschied zwischen "bei" und "mit" wenn es sich um Personen handelt (Wie "Ich esse mit/bei meinen Eltern"), aber wie funktioniert diesen Unterschied wenn es sich auf Ideen oder Gegenstände bezieht?
Nämlich, ich habe den Satz "Kannst du mir morgen bei dem (beim) Umzug helfen?" gehört, aber ich verstehe nicht ob (oder wie) dass nicht "mit dem Umzug helfen" sein kann.
Danke :)

[long whale]

English interference... 🍪 Have a look at this, please: #questions-2 message

[finite mason]

Achso macht Sinn

Aber deshalb kann ich auf keinem Fall "mit dem Umzug helfen" sagen? Ich glaube ich habe es auch schon mal gehört

Auch wie "mir mit den/bei den Hausaufgaben helfen"

[long whale]

Yes, some native speakers use it that way.

If you'd read 2 posts down, you'd have seen #questions-2 message

[finite mason]

Also am I supposed to be speaking English in this channel?

[long whale]

You're welcome to ask in German, of course.

[finite mason]

Yeah I did read the whole interaction but I guess I'm trying to find out whether there is an actual difference in meaning between the two ways of saying it

Cause choices between similar words like these are often completely arbitrary but then are also occasionally conducive to a surprisingly large difference in meaning

[worldly hound]

Hi, I have a question. Does it sound natural if I put the subject of the sentence in one of the later parts of the sentence in German? Or do you have to keep the subject in first position?

[plush pelican]

You do not have to have the subject in position 1, and indeed very often the most natural sentence has the subject somewhere else

[kind knoll]

You can change it's location yes, here are some examples

Das weiß ich nicht

Im Winter war ich krank

Mit meinen Freunden bin ich immer zufrieden

[worldly hound]

what about very complex sentences where it's easy to lose the subject if you're not paying a lot of attention?

[plush pelican]

Putting something other than the subject in position 1 is known as "topicalization" (Topikalisierung), you are making the other thing the "topic" of the sentence and putting a bit of a spotlight on it.

Ich habe einen Hund. Den Hund liebe ich.

[worldly hound]

oh yeah I see

[plush pelican]

I mean, native speakers generally don't have trouble picking out the subject

[kind knoll]

Could you provide an example?

[worldly hound]

"Intimately linked to the history of the city and, more generally, to that of Franco-German relations, German studies were institutionalized as early as 1872."

Trying to translate this right now

I'm wondering where I should put the subject "german studies"

what I'm struggling with is german syntax

[kind crag]

There needs to be period before German studies or else it's a run-off sentence

[plush pelican]

Hammer's has a hell of a sentence as an example for the subject coming very late in the sentence.

Glücklicherweise wartet nun in Wien an jeder Ecke ein Kaffeehaus
Fortunately waits now in Vienna on every corner a coffeeshop

[kind knoll]

"Die Germanistik ist eng mit der Geschichte der Stadt und ganz allgemein mit der Geschichte der deutsch-französischen Beziehungen verbunden und wurde bereits 1872 institutionalisiert." Is how I would personally write it

[kind knoll]

Did he get that from the aspekte textbook? i couldve sworn i read that 2 days ago there

[plain umbra]

No, not true.

[worldly hound]

yess I was thinking about putting the subject in first position exactly like you did here

so it sounds more natural like this, right?

[kind knoll]

Thats quite a sentence to translate as an A level language learner no?

[kind crag]

Holy shit you're right it's just a really long transition "word"

[kind knoll]

I mean, sentence structure is quite ambitious in german, you can get away with many different structures

[worldly hound]

I'm trying to learn German in a very short period of time so I'm really diving right into it lmao

[plush pelican]

Aspekt may have gotten it from Hammer's. Hammer's was originally published in like the 1970s, it predates Aspekt

[kind knoll]

How much time you got?

I thought hammer was a person in this server lmao

[plain umbra]

When you translate, you don't have to mimic the word order of the sentence you're translating.

If you want to put the subject first, feel free.

[worldly hound]

5-7 months

[plush pelican]

"Hammer's German Grammar" is the title of the book, 😅

[kind knoll]

what level is required from you

and whats ur current level

[worldly hound]

okay! got it, but keep in mind that I'm not translating literature, does this still apply then?

[kind crag]

Yes

[worldly hound]

B2-C1 so very advanced

[kind crag]

Zen gave some examples

[plain umbra]

Yeah. Translations are about communicating meaning, not words.

[kind crag]

You need to study a lot then

Like a lot

[plain umbra]

Sometimes you have to completely rephrase a sentence to translate it properly.

[worldly hound]

And my current level is A1... honestly hahah

[kind knoll]

B2 is def feasable, i went from a1 to b2 in 7 months (low b2)

[plush pelican]

You need B2-C1 in 5-7 months?

Good fucking luck

[kind knoll]

of?

[worldly hound]

I know don't worry! I need to learn german for college so it's not just a passtime, I'm taking it seriously

[kind crag]

Because a jump from A1 to B2 took me around 8 months of constant studying

And I mean 2-4 hours of studying every day

[kind knoll]

If only i didnt waste the first 2 months on duolingo

[plush pelican]

Are you currently studying like 4+ hours a day, every day? Beacuse that's the pace you'll need in order to hit that goal

[kind knoll]

yeah i studied a minimum of 4 hours a day to get to b2

[worldly hound]

I was about to ask that haha thanks for sharing! Can you tell me a little bit about your methods?

[kind knoll]

LOTS OF ANKI AND INPUT

[kind crag]

A grammar book and Anki are the two resources I used then I exposed myself to a lot of German media

[worldly hound]

yes I spend long hours studying everyday

[worldly hound]

I'm only missing a grammar book then haha

[kind crag]

I would read a article every day by month 4, whether it be politics, scientific, etc

[kind crag]

Want me to give you the one I used for free?

[kind knoll]

i recommend grammatik aktiv a1-b1 and aspekte neu b1+ lehr und arbeitsbuch

[kind crag]

I used Collin's easy dictionary

[kind knoll]

i like spekte neu b1+ because it helps u with the gap between b1 and b2

[kind crag]

And I can give you a grammar drills book as well

[plush pelican]

Piracy is not allowed on this server.

[kind crag]

I literally bought the book

[worldly hound]

absolutely! thank you so much

[plush pelican]

Are you going to physically ship it to them?

[kind crag]

No

[worldly hound]

wait let me write them down

[plush pelican]

So you're going to give them a digital copy, for free?

[kind crag]

Yes

[plush pelican]

That's piracy

[kind crag]

Because I imported a PDF of it

The Kindle app allows me to transfer it into an EPUB file

[plush pelican]

Feel free to do what you want in your DMs, I'm just telling you that according to the rules of this server, you're not allowed to advocate piracy

[worldly hound]

If it's not allowed don't do it!

[worldly hound]

no problem, we'll follow them rules

actually the sentence I'm trying to translate is longer than what I sent you guys earlier

[kind crag]

Yes I know

@worldly hound Could you accept my friend request

I have DMs turned off you can unfriend me

[worldly hound]

sorry I got distracted, sure!

[long whale]

Correct. In the sentences you suggested (e.g. bei/mit dem Umzug), there is no difference, and it wouldnt matter. But yes, I can think of sentences where IMO only one would really work.

[dense forum]

Hallo, Leute! Ich habe meine Antwort für diese Übung korrigiert, aber jetzt ich bin verwirrt. Zum Beispiel, im D, warum kann man nicht “müssen” schreiben?

(Sorry… I know my german’s still very broken. Should I explain my issue in english instead?)

[long whale]

You mean why can't you write "Sie müssen nicht viel essen"? Because instead of "You mustn't/are not allowed to eat a lot", it would mean "You don't have to eat a lot, i.e. there is no obligation."

[long whale]

No, asking in German is fine. 🌻

[dense forum]

But that’s what confused me. If you want to get thinner, you mustn’t eat lots of food, right?

[long whale]

Look, just accept that modal verbs are totally weird, both in English and in German. To Germans, it doesn't make much sense the way English works. Think: must = obligation. So: must not = absence of obligation, right? Ehh, no! must not = no permission

While in German: müssen = obligation. nicht müssen = absence of obligation. dürfen = permission. nicht dürfen = no permission

[dense forum]

Ah, modal verbs are not as bad as english pronounciations

But, I see!

ohhhhh

It makes so much sense now

Thank you so much!

[vernal ermine]

Can I know what is the actual difference between Ferien und Urlaub?

[vernal ermine]

@long whale sister, do you have any idea? 🤔

[kind knoll]

Feiern is to celebrate, Urluab is vacation

[vernal ermine]

Ferien bro.

[kind knoll]

Ferien is when your school or university or employer is taking a break, Urlaub is when you take time off for yourself

[vernal ermine]

Which word we use for sick leave?

[kind knoll]

I believe that would be the verb, krankenschreiben, which you use when calling in sick

[long whale]

*jemanden krankschreiben

e.g. Der Arzt hat mich krankgeschrieben (the doctor put me on sick leave) vs. Ich bin krankgeschrieben (I have a doctor's certificate saying I'm sick)

[vernal ermine]

Consider a situation in a class, where you were telling your mam that I want to take leave. So which word you use here to denote '' Leave''.

[kind knoll]

Ich habe mich krankgemeldet, would that be correct? As in i called in sick

[long whale]

What does "mam" mean?

[vernal ermine]

Madam

[long whale]

The teacher? You just ask them for permission to go home because [reason].

[vernal ermine]

Yeah, close to that.

[vernal ermine]

I have a family function tomorrow. Please grant me leave for two days. -----> I am asking the word for " leave" in this sentence.

[plush pelican]

"mam" isn't used to mean a teacher in English, or at least not in American English.

The only usage of it that I know of is a regional form of "mom", so "my mam" = my mother

[vernal ermine]

Agree bro.

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank ❤

[long whale]

To my knowledge, there is no word for that. It wouldn't work, anyway. It's most unlikely a student would be allowed to stay away from school for a reason like this. And as long as you're under 18, you'd have to hand in a note from your parents - who'd wisely decide not to tell the school why you weren't going to be there. They and you would just have to lie and claim you'd been sick. 🤷

[vernal ermine]

I am in working group, in that situation which word is best when asking to an employer?

[plush pelican]

Dict.cc suggests "jdm. die Erlaubnis erteilen, etwas zu tun" = "to grant someone leave to do something"

Could you say "Können sie mir bitte die Erlaubnis dafür erteilen?"?

[long whale]

Yes.

[plush pelican]

Would it sound weird/unidiomatic?

[kind knoll]

I've seen also jemanden für etwas beurlauben?

[long whale]

As I tried to explain, the whole situation is kind of...

[long whale]

It's an excellent word, yes... Not sure it's common for students, though. 🤔

[plush pelican]

I mean, imagine a situation where you do ask for leave

Like in the military or something, I guess

Would it work there?

[long whale]

Yes, exactly!

[plush pelican]

Danke

[long whale]

I think it can also be used when someone is under suspicion - when somebody in the government (or employed by the government) is sent home while their conduct is being investigated or sth. (The usual one would be "vom Dienst suspendiert", but that kind of sounds as if they're convinced of some wrongdoing, so... 🤷

[long whale]

You ask your employer/HR to grant/give you X days off work -> Urlaub -> 2 Tage Urlaub OR 2 Urlaubstage

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank sister.

[fervent kernel]

Cola zu trinken ,ist das beste ,was ich je gemacht habe .
What does 'je' mean in this sentence
And how can i use it ?

[kind knoll]

je translates to ever, drinking cola is the best thing i have ever done

[fervent kernel]

Oh ok
Understood thx

[long whale]

Please note there is no space before a punctuation mark in German, it's inserted after the punctuation mark (just like in English): Cola zu trinken__,__ ist das Beste__, was ich je gemacht habe.__ 🌻

[fervent kernel]

Didn't notice that before
Thanks

[warped oriole]

@fervent kernel
Je is the short form of jemals. Jemals means ever but ever also means immer but immer also means always. And je can also mean per but per can also mean pro. Je and desto also means the. (Je schneller desto mehr -> the faster the more) 🤔🫠

[fervent kernel]

Danke schön

[plush pelican]

This is transcribed from a video I was listening to. Should the bolded section be in Plusquamperfekt instead of Perfekt? I've heard that people often replace Plusquamperfekt with Perfekt in speech:

Meine absolute Topmutprobe in meinem Leben bisher war, dass ich damals bei der Mittelstufe, als wir alle unseren Abschluss gefeiert haben, da bin ich aufgetreten vor der gesamten Schule, und da war ich, glaube ich, 15, und habe noch nie auf einer Bühne gestanden und habe noch nie vor Leuten gesungen, und das war so crazy, weil, es ist so viel schwerer vor Menschen zu singen, die man kennt, als dass man vor fremden Leuten spielt

https://youtu.be/qEXAy5t3504?si=mU8UelxSPZA7ob8T&t=237

[plush pelican]

Zwischen dem 18. und dem Anfang des 20. Jahrhunderts war die Blütezeit der literarischen Salons. Das waren Treffen von Autoren und anderen Intellektuellen im privaten Rahmen, zu denen stets Frauen einluden – gebildete, meist reiche, oft adelige Frauen. Sie versammelten meist die geistige Elite einer Stadt um sich.

What is happening with the clause with "einluden"?

These were meetings of authors and other intellectuals in private rooms, to which women always invited?

I feel like it should be "zu denen Frauen stets eingeladen waren/wurden", or have I misunderstood it?

[plain umbra]

I think it's just not meant to be a full clause.

More like an adjective phrase tacked on the end.

[plush pelican]

an adjective phrase for "Treffen"?

Das waren zu denen stets Frauen einluden Treffen?

but "einluden" is Präteritum, not Partizip 2?

Can you do a Partizipialsatz like that?

[plain umbra]

Yeah, that's true. But it reads to me as something of the same effect. Not sure if I have seen it before though.

Well I could be wrong but I guess how it comes across to me is that they want to say that the authors and intellectuals are inviting the women but stylistically dropping the subject pronoun.

But I will be interested to hear what a native speaker can say about it.

Unless what it's saying is actually that the women organised the events and invited the people.

[vernal ermine]

Guten Tag Freunde
What we call it as an Öko-Duell?

[pure crescent]

What do you mean? "What is the meaning of 'Öko-Duell'?"?

[pure crescent]

Those were meetings of authors and other intellectuals in a private setting always hosted by women

literally: to which always women invited

[vernal ermine]

Yes bro, I didn't understand meaning. There is no good explanatory word for that in English.

[plush pelican]

Really? hosted?

Is this listed in a dictionary anywhere as a meaning?

Maybe I'm dumb, I don't see this on Duden, Wiktionary, or DWDS as a definition

[pure crescent]

zu etwas einladen is not listed in any dictionary? 🙂

that's sad

literally it's invite someone

but the spirit in that sentence is closer to hosting a party

nowadays one adds an ein

Ich lade dich zu meinem Geburtstag ein.

but old timey it's left out

Die Damen luden den König zum Tee.

[plush pelican]

zu etwas einladen is listed, but not with a meaning of "to host something"

or maybe I just don't see it/don't understand it?

[plush pelican]

Those...sentences have a completely different meaning, that's just "invite" not "host", no?

The other thing I'm confused about:
"Ich lade dich zu meinem Geburtstag ein",
there's 3 nouns there: 1) the subject, 2) the person being invited, 3) the event they are invited to.

In the relative clause, I see only 2 nouns:
"zu denen stets Frauen einluden"

1. Frauen, 2) denen

I assume "denen" = the event they are invited to (Treffen), meaning "Frauen" has to be the subject, but then that means we're missing who the women are inviting, we're missing the direct object

[long whale]

This translation of yours is 100% correct: These were meetings of authors and other intellectuals in private rooms, to which women always invited - As already pointed out by nova, in the past, "einladen" did not require a direct object (and ein- was also optional), that's why there there's only the event (Treffen, zu denen) and the subject/hosts (Frauen). Historically, this made sense: when the king or duke was celebrating, e.g. a wedding, there was no specific number of seats - the whole family of so-and-so got invited, including everyone who happened to be visiting the so-and-sos at the time of the wedding. The invitations to these salons in the original sentence were also kind of vague (or could be): if you were a good friend of the lady of the house, you didn't have to wait for an invitation, you just showed up. And if you had a distinguished or at least amusing friend from another town or country staying with you, the lady hosting the salon would have been happy to receive this friend of yours as well.

[plush pelican]

Thanks for the explanation.

Now for harder bit: How can I as a learner figure this out for myself next time?

The only intransitive use of "einladen" that I found was equivalent to another meaning of "invite" or perhaps "encourage", not "host"

〈in übertragener Bedeutung:〉 der schöne Platz lädt zum Verweilen ein (gehoben; veranlasst dazu)

die herrlichen Wälder laden zu ausgedehnten Spaziergängen ein

If this is the kind of stuff I need to understand to be C1 level ...

[long whale]

Frankly, I'd say it's more like C2. Also, I'm not sure what you're complaining about. 😄 You did manage to figure it out perfectly well, all on your own, just by parsing the sentence. And I'd say this intransitive usage you found is exactly the same as in your original sentence. I can't quote an exact sentence right now, but I assure you, 100+ years ago, hearing somebody say sth like "Ah, Frau XY lädt zum Tee" wouldn't have been in any way unusual. 🤷

[plush pelican]

No, I didn't. Nova explained it

I thought it was missing a word and it meant women were invited to the meetings, rather than the ones hosting them

The literal English translation that I gave originally doesn't make sense in English, to be clear

[long whale]

Nope. This perfect translation was in your original post. :D

[long whale]

Yes, I'm aware.

[plush pelican]

But ...

[plain umbra]

Basically I think it's just hard for a learner to tell if the Frauen is meant to be subject or object. At least that's what I couldn't decide reading it.

[plush pelican]

I didn't understand the word as it was used here. The fact that my literal translation was "right" did not allow me to get the actual meaning

Also: this appeared on one of those free online tests, this one was a C1 test

[long whale]

You know, our minds work differently, so, I can't help you there, I'm afraid. I read a lot of books, I come across a weird-looking sentence, I go: hmmm... I get the basic meaning: events with people from the world of literature, women. If I come across a similar sentence again at some point, or realize by reading more about those events "Ah, so, those were always hosted by women! 💡" my mind will kind of note it down under "interesting, but probably unusual usage", and I'm fine with that. 🤷

[plush pelican]

The question on the test specifically asked about women, and I happened to guess correctly despite misunderstanding the sentence

[long whale]

Ooof! This came up in a test?

[plush pelican]

Online test, but yeah

For fun

[plush pelican]

.

[long whale]

Totally get why you'd to that (find tests irresistible), but... let me ask you: was this a test by a language school or sth?

[plush pelican]

I think so

https://sla-basel.ch/online-einstufungstest-fuer-deutsch-sprachtest-c1/

[long whale]

Mm. So, they purposely set out to find a sentence like that. Trying to get people to think "OMG! I'd thought I didn't need a course! But I totally failed this!" rushes to register for expensive course

[plush pelican]

Of course, I don't think it tested my knowledge properly; most questions had only 2 or 3 multi choice options, so it's pretty easy to game the test

Ooh, apparently they offer something above an Intensivkurs, called a "Super-Intensivkurs", never seen that before

Ah, it's only 3 hours 15 minutes per day

That's actually less time than a regular Intensivkurs, no?

Whereas their "Intensivkurse" are 3 hours a day, and 1 week shorter?

I like how they seem to offer bigger titles that correspond to fewer actual hours...

[long whale]

Trust me, I get why the sentence is hard for a non-native speaker - I can even imagine a lot of (perhaps not very well-read) native speakers going "Hey! This doesn't work!" 🍪 As I told Argus above, I suspect this particular sentence was chosen on purpose to make people feel they needed a course - obviously at this particular language school. ;)

[plain umbra]

Yeah, makes sense.

[jade hawk]

Should I switch to Bekannte, Kollege and all that stuff instead of constantly saying Freund? Freund's more for people you have deeply bonded with, yeah?

[pure crescent]

Yeah

That's an intercultural difference too though - people in other cultures more easily consider someone a German would call a Bekannter a Freund. and vice versa I guess. So if you think someone's your friend even if y'all haven't spoken about the meaning of life yet, do call them Freund without hesitation 😂

[jade hawk]

Nah I'm polish, we have a similar hierarchy. The word przyjaciel for someone you have deep friendship with, then for someone you just know you'd use kolega (sounds similar, huh?) or znajomy

[pure crescent]

kolega 🥲 yeah. being a Freund IMO implies a certain high threshold of duties and privileges (and intimacy) being crossed in the relationship on both sides. I'll always try my best to help a Freund move, for example, but a Bekannter I'll only help with it if I don't have anything better to do.

nobody at work is my friend. Though Arbeitsfreunde is a term for colleagues you get along with really well and who might even become Freunde.

[jade hawk]

I'm also curious about this "declined as adjective" that I see in Collins dictionary once in a while, in words describing people. Does this mean that I should use for example von Bekanntem in dativ or einen Bekannten in akkusativ?

[pure crescent]

Ich gebe meinem Bekannten ein Buch. (Dativ)

Ich habe einen Bekannten. (Akkusativ)

[jade hawk]

Oh like that, thanks

[vernal ermine]

Does anybody know about it?

@long whale Sister do you have any idea?

[long whale]

Context?

[vernal ermine]

I read under the topic umweltfreundlich.

One of the exercise, they gave the heading Das Öko-duell. and I was asked to choose the best thing for day to day activities.

[long whale]

Well, do you know the meaning of the English word "duel"?

[vernal ermine]

Yes, it means fight.

[long whale]

Yes. So, presumably "das Öko-Duell" means sth like "Whose life-style is better from an ecological point of view? Who does more/tries harder to protect the world from climate-change?"

[vernal ermine]

So, does Öko-duell is against the environment?

[long whale]

No! Please try to pinpoint what exactly you don't understand about the answer I gave you.

[vernal ermine]

Does Öko-duell (eco- duel) and umweltfreundlich (eco- friendly) are same.

[long whale]

Duell (it's a noun, das Duell) - No. It's an activity. Like... Question 1: Do you always use public transport, or do you drive a car? - Jack Victor: I always use public transport. - Frosty Bell: I drive a car. -> Jack Victor gets 10 points, Frosty Bell gets 0 points. Question 2: Do you read e-books or paper books? - Jack Victor: E-books. - Frosty Bell: Paper books. -> 10 points for Jack Victor, 0 points for Frosty bell. Result of the duel is Jack Victor: 20 points, Frosty Bell 0. Jack Victor has won the eco-duel!

[vernal ermine]

Now I understand very much clearly. Thank you very much sister 😊👍

[pearl knot]

what does ziehen or durch ziehen exactly means here? :
"durch ein paar Kneipen ziehen"

[long whale]

"a (small-ish) pubcrawl". "durch" is a preposition here (since it's in front of a noun), definitely not part of the verb.

[jade hawk]

Well I am no longer confident in my potential B1 skills but I assume this "was [...] angeht" pertains to this 10th(!) Duden definition on the 2nd screenshot, yes? Is this a common expression?

so its more of a I feel confident concerning my B1 skills (or to maybe make this sound better, Concerning my B1 skills, I feel confident about them) instead of the about used in the screenshot

[long whale]

Yes. - Please define "common"... It's definitely not uncommon.

[jade hawk]

common = used often enough for me not to disregard it like a 1 häufigkeit bar duden entry

[long whale]

Ah. No, it's definitely worth memorizing.

[limpid trout]

are there any less formal or just generally more common ways of writing out/parsing the word forms of numbers? like the way the hyphen is often skipped out on english double digit numbers, i.e. "twenty-two" → "twenty two"

or is the most common way to write something like 777.777 in word form just the still-unspaced "siebenhundertsiebenundsiebzigtausendsiebenhundertsiebenundsiebzig"
?

[whole portal]

That would be how its written but realistically that never ever happens

[limpid trout]

well I do have a tendency to ask unrealistic questions

danke schön

[fervent kernel]

Anyone explains how to use this table?

[plain umbra]

It simply shows you what the definite article is for specific gender-case combinations.

So when you use a noun in a sentence, determine the gender of the noun and what case is required, and then use the corresponding article.

[fervent kernel]

Is there a lot of cases?
How do you distinguish each cases?

[plain umbra]

The cases are nominative, accusative, dative and genitive.

The cases basically depend on the role the noun is playing in the sentence. There isn't a simple rule to follow but rather several rules that you need to learn.

As a total beginner, the first one you learn is that the subject is nominative.

Do you know what a subject is?

[fervent kernel]

I'm new to German languages?
I assume the subject is people or thing.

[plain umbra]

The subject is the person/thing that does the action.

Like "the man sleeps" or "the dog runs". In these, the man and the dog are the subjects.

If you have "the man eats the apple" then "the man" is the subject and "the apple" is the object.

In German, as a beginner, you start with:
subject = nominative
object = accusative

It's actually not that simple and there are exceptions and other rules you will have to learn later.

But just to get familiar with the ideas of cases, you can start with just that.

For simple sentences with just subject - verb - object.

So for example, can you write "the man eats the apple" in German?

[fervent kernel]

Is there any sites to learn German Grammar that is pretty esay to pick up?

[fervent kernel]

Der Mann essan der Apple

[plain umbra]

faq nicos

[stoic mauve]

Nicos

Nicos Weg is a free online program aimed at helping people learn German. It includes video, audio, text, grammar explanations, notes, vocabulary, and exercises. It also includes very useful cultural and bureaucratic information, such as how to open a bank account, while teaching you the relevant grammar and vocabulary.

It’s fairly popular and well-recommended, but keep in mind that you can’t learn a language with only one resource, even if it’s a good one!

You can find the courses here: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/overview/

You can also see various other courses for learners by dw.com here: https://www.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-2469/

[plain umbra]

Do you know about verb conjugation?

[fervent kernel]

I do not know. What does that mean?

[plain umbra]

When you use a verb in a sentence, you change the ending based on the subject.

Like in English we say "I eat" but "the man eats".

Eat vs eats.

faq present tense

[stoic mauve]

Conjugation

Präsens (Present Tense)
When you use a verb in a sentence (or clause), you have to conjugate it (change the form) to match the subject of the sentence (or clause).

For example, in English, we write I eat but he/she eats. The verb has a different ending! The concept is the same in German, except German has more endings.

The first thing you need to know in order to conjugate verbs is: which ending fits which subject? Here is a simple verb “trinken” (to drink) as an example:

trinken
ich trinke
du trinkst
er/sie/es trinkt
wir trinken
ihr trinkt
sie trinken / Sie trinken
(Note: the conjugation for sie (they) and Sie (formal you) is always the same)

Vowel/Stem Changes
There are a few variations and exceptions, but the most important is vowel changes (also called stem changes). Some verbs get a vowel change, which only affects the du and er/sie/es forms of the verb. (However, modal verbs and wissen have their own special pattern, which also has a vowel change in the ich form.)

Example: ich schlafe, du schläfst

Other Changes
There are various other differences but I can’t describe them all here, so please read these websites or use Google to find more information: https://www.vistawide.com/german/grammar/german_verbs_present_tense.htm
https://www.thoughtco.com/german-present-tense-verbs-4074838
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~deutsch/Grammatik/PresentTense/Present.html

[plain umbra]

See this for an example of how it works in German.

So when you say "the man eats" in German, you say "der Mann isst".

The nominative form of apple is der Apfel.

But in this sentence it's the object.

So the sentence is: Der Mann isst den Apfel.

[fervent kernel]

What are the meterial learning for A1 level?
I tried Nico but it won't work because. I feel learning Nico series that are too slow pace.

[plain umbra]

Then you can just look up the topics at your own pace.

faq beginner

[stoic mauve]

How to get started

The simplest way to learn German is to find topics you don’t understand yet and search for explanations of them. This list provides you with a guide for which topics to learn if you are completely new to German. Type the topic into Google (or YouTube) and start learning!

Introduction

1: Alphabet (especially ä, ü, ö and ß)
2: Basic greetings (hello, goodbye, etc.)

Part 1 - Simple Sentence

1: Noun gender & plurals
2: Nominative case (What are cases?)
3: Nominative pronouns (I, you, he, she, etc.)
4: Verbs in present tense
5: Definite/indefinite articles
6: Accusative case (for nouns)
7: Accusative pronouns
8: Word order of simple sentences
9: How to ask questions

See Part 2 on the next page.

Tips

• Always learn the gender of a noun when you learn a new noun
• Learn to use a translation dictionary (e.g. dict.cc, leo.org)
• Use >faq resources to see our list of German learning resources
• For listening and pronunciation practice, try watching movies or videos (incl. YouTube)
• You can listen to pronunciation for words on websites like dict.cc, forvo.com, and others
• Practice writing sentences every day (and asking people to correct them)
• Ask as many questions as possible
• Don’t be scared to make mistakes!!!! If you don’t let yourself make mistakes, you will never be able to learn German

Page 1/2

[fervent kernel]

This is A1 grammar level?

[plain umbra]

It's the first part of A1, yes.

[fervent kernel]

Are there any sites to refer the list of grammars in the table above?

[plain umbra]

Yes, many. Just google the topics and they will come up.

[fervent kernel]

how many are Grammar parts for A1?

[plain umbra]

What do you mean?

[fervent kernel]

I mean how many parts are there?

[fervent kernel]

As you said it

[plain umbra]

Just use this list instead: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kz1Xqx0sFXAWys-Mgfhjc-M8JDCMtoeeGXcg5-orP_A/edit

[fervent kernel]

thanks you a lot.

[polar mica]

Hallo habe ich eine Frage. Ich weiss es nicht was in dem Satz, das Verb nicht in zweitens Platz ist ?
"Als sie die Nachricht erfuhren,...."

Sorry I try to speak German a little bit, tell me if i said total nonsense please x)

[plush pelican]

The rule about the verb being in position 2 is for main clauses (Hauptsätze).

Dependent clauses (Nebensätze) have a different word order.

You can tell it is a Nebensatz, because it has a subordinating conjunction (nebenordnende Konjunktion), "als"

Here is a playlist on word order in German:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKCEuz6wxDQkpEHEB85W2jlJzbStuBMft&si=H7sM_2D952M-uxSx

[polar mica]

Ooooh danke schon 🙂

[kind knoll]

Shoutout to this guy for getting me through the a levels

[stiff cliff]

Is it good to start with?

[kind knoll]

absolutely

[stiff cliff]

Ok

[charred harbor]

I know you’re trying to be polite but “sister” isn’t really used this way (it’s not like “bro”)

[vernal ermine]

Then how can we call a women?

[plush pelican]

Usually, you just say "Thank you very much" without anything else, regardless of the person's gender

Optionally, you could say "Thank you very much, sir" (for a man) or "Thank you very much, ma'am" (for a woman), but these forms are in my opinion somewhat old

You wouldn't really use them on the internet

maybe in a formal situation

[vernal ermine]

So how would you call your sister? @plush pelican

[plush pelican]

I'd use her name, 😅

If I were thanking my sister, I would just say, "Thanks" or "Thank you very much"

[charred harbor]

Unless you're extraordinarily distant from your sister I think "Thank you very much" is a bit weird

[plush pelican]

You know, you don't really use the word "brother" or "sister" all that much, except when explaining to someone that "She's my sister"

[vernal ermine]

If she is elder than you?

[charred harbor]

Doesn't matter

[plush pelican]

We do not make such distinctions about age

English-speaking countries are generally much more egalitarian/much less hierarchical

[plush pelican]

Now, "bro" is different than "brother".

"Bro" = "dude", it is a general positive term for a friend or acquaintance, regardless of whether they are related to you or not, and indeed, you can even call girls "bro"

although that will sometimes be a little weird if it is not first established that you call everyone "bro"

and "bro" is slang, so you don't use it outside of casual situations

[vernal ermine]

Actually I used sister to make it polite.

I think there is no other way of being poliite.

[plush pelican]

Right, I understand what you were thinking, but we don't use "sister" in that way

there is "ma'am", but depending on who you are talking to, that can make it sound like you think the woman is old and thus be insulting (women prefer to be thought of as young)

on the internet, I would just say "Thank you very much"

[vernal ermine]

This is like a greetings.but how about a lady who doesn't likes me. How can I call her?

[plush pelican]

What is the situation where you are thanking a woman that doesn't like you?

Do you know the woman, or is she a stranger? Are you speaking on the internet, or real life?

I think "Thank you very much" works in almost every situation 🤔

[vernal ermine]

On internet bro. But it would also be helpful if you tell about it in real situation also.

[plush pelican]

If you're talking on the phone or in person, one alternative is, "Thank you for your time"

like, the time they spent talking to you and/or trying to help you

[vernal ermine]

I am not asking about thanking. Just calling a person.

[plush pelican]

?

You want to know how to say hello or how to say goodbye?

[charred harbor]

You wouldn't

It's not something we do

[plush pelican]

Is this a service worker, like you are talking to someone from a business?

[vernal ermine]

Like for some help / clarification.

[plush pelican]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking for. Try giving a very specific example

[charred harbor]

They're asking how you should address someone you're not close to.

[plush pelican]

Well, if you are interrupting someone who is doing something else, you would generally say, "Excuse me", and optionally you can add on "Excuse me, sir" or "Excuse me, ma'am", so then you could say

"Excuse me, ma'am, could you help me? I'm trying to locate the nearest ATM" or something

Interrupting someone can be seen as rude, so in that situation, it is more helpful to add "sir" or "ma'am", but you also have the risk of:

1. using ma'am to a woman who thinks she is not that old, and is thus insulted by you using "ma'am"
2. misgendering someone (thinking someone is a man, when they are really a woman, and you say "sir" instead of "ma'am", and they get mad that you have used the form for the wrong gender)

[vernal ermine]

What about asking a question to her in this server. How will you ask politely?

[plush pelican]

Have you spoken with them before?

or are they a complete stranger?

[charred harbor]

In the context of a Discord server using sir/ma’am is weird as well as most other forms of address
Typically you’d either just say their name or say nothing at all

[plush pelican]

"(Name), could you please help me, I don't understand what the word X means"

Yeah, using "sir" or "ma'am" is usually too formal for the internet

note that pinging someone (doing @ name) has its own rules of etiquette; as a general rule, do not ping people that you do not know very well/are not friends with, unless you are replying to an earlier message of theirs

[vernal ermine]

Thanks for clarification @plush pelican @charred harbor

[devout rain]

What is the correct way to say: "We're going to the club"?
Wir gehen zum Club.
Wir gehen in den Club

[glacial heron]

can someone explain to me when we use filler words such as ,,ja'' , ,,mal'' and ..so''. I see them in every single sentence that i come across

speech obviously

[plush pelican]

Modal particles, aka "flavor words". Think of them as the spices of a sentence. They are not the meal itself, but rather something that "enhances the flavor"

"ja" is roughly like, "it is of course known, that"

When talking about a guy who is one-armed, you might be like, "Es wäre ja ein bisschen schwierig für dich, schwimmen zu gehen." .... cause he has one arm. This is common knowledge, both I as the speaker and he as the receiver knows this information

Sorry, first example that came to my mind 😅

[long whale]

Best not to worry about when to use them. Being able to identify them as filler words is important, since pretty much all of them also have a "real" meaning. 🌻

[plush pelican]

Oh yeah, it's worth pointing out: modal particles are like a B2/C1-level topic

[long whale]

If you're going inside, it's usually the 2nd. 🌻

[dense forum]

Could someone help me out, please?
In the sentence “Um 13.00 Uhr _ die Kinder aus der Schule _. (zurückkommen)”, why can’t one write “Um 13.00 Uhr kommt die Kinder aus der Schule zurück”?

[long whale]

"am" is not the right preposition for "at 1 o'clock". - Please tell me what the subject of this sentence is, and whether it's singular or plural?

[dense forum]

Whoops. I transcribed it wrong

From the context of this text, there seem to be multiple children

But wait, so the conjugation changes depending on the context in which “Die Kinder” is said?

[long whale]

In this respect, German works exactly like English: the verb must be conjugated in accordance with the subject.

Das Kind (subject) geht (3rd person singular Präsens) zu Fuß nach Hause = The child walks home [on foot]

vs.

Die Kinder (subject) gehen (3rd person plural Präsens) zu Fuß nach Hause = The children walk home [on foot]

[dense forum]

I see…

[long whale]

Oops, the verb is declined conjugated - brain fart.

[dense forum]

Thanks so much :’)

[long whale]

You just get more forms in German than in English, that's all. ;)

[dense forum]

Happens to the best of us

[dense forum]

Not that bad, Portuguese has like 20 tenses

[long whale]

Ah, good - no, by "more forms" I mean: English just differentiates 3rd person singular from all the others, German has more conjugated forms.

But then, so does Portuguese, probably (I only speak Spanish).

[dense forum]

By the way; is it common to say “Ich muss die Waschmaschine abmachen”?

[dense forum]

Yep yep

[long whale]

Wrong verb: ausmachen (= turn off)

[dense forum]

I transcribed it wrong again ;x;
The right verb is anmachen

[long whale]

Because "abmachen" would be like "disconnect" - so, ehh, yeah, it would work. Just doesn't happen that often...

[dense forum]

OHHHHH

I just realized it means turn on

[dense forum]

Yeah

Thanks a lot!!

[long whale]

And yeah, it's extremely common, in spoken German. The formal verb would be "einschalten" or "anschalten".

[fervent kernel]

Guten Morgen, meine Herzogin

[unique steppe]

Herr Marks ist ....... professor -- welche article heir?
ein order der

[long whale]

Please don't ask the same question in more than 1 channel - people won't realize it's been answered/discussed elsewhere -> waste of time and effort. 🌻

[unique steppe]

OK

[errant pond]

hi i have a question what does mean "wie es nur geht " with some example please

[rustic thunder]

With the little German I know I can do a minimal translation of "how it just goes"

That's my best guess

Basically my best guess is "it is what it is"?

[errant pond]

i translate it on google the meaning is " as much as"
that why im confused and asking here

[rustic thunder]

For me google translate said "only possible"

Thats why I don't usually like Google translate

I try to stay away from it unless I'm trying to make a sentence not make sense by translating it through 10 different languages

[warped oriole]

Context please

[warped oriole]

Where did you find this? For me it sounds weird to say.

[plush pelican]

Probably as part of a phrase like, "Wir müssen so schnell fahren, wie es nur geht" or something.

Basically, as fast as possible

[warped oriole]

Ohhhh yes you are right. Didn't think about that

[plush pelican]

I've heard something like that on the YouTube channel of some Rettungsdienst guy

[dense forum]

Hi! Could someone help me out please?
On the subject of Imperativ, I've come across a dialog that looks like this:
"Ich fühle mich schlecht."
"Dann geh doch nach Hause."
Is the word "doch" necessary in order for the sentence to be grammatically correct, and still have the same meaning?

[fervent kernel]

You can also say: "Dann geh nach Hause."

[dense forum]

So, effectively, there's no difference?

[long whale]

Effectively - no. However, we dislike giving direct commands. We almost always feel the need to add some "softener", to make an imperative sound more like a suggestion. That's what "doch" is for, here. ;)

[dense forum]

I see!

Thank you so much

[brave flint]

warum gibt es manchmal Sätze wie „geh du nach Hause“?

[long whale]

It's an interesting question. I'm not sure. Probably for the same reason they exist in English? "You go home, I'll finish up here" - ? Softening the imperative/command? Pointing out I just mean you, not myself? You tell me. 🌻

[terse sail]

Whats the difference between jeder and alle

Not when we use them with a name

Just alle or jeder

Are they like everyone and everybody

[steady wyvern]

more like just every but in different context i think

[south zenith]

jeder specifies that the task applies to each person individually

Alle bauen ein Schiff -- can mean everyone is working together to build one ship
Jeder baut ein Schiff -- means everyone is each building their own ship

[terse sail]

Ok now I get it thanks

[icy flax]

Ein wohlmeinender Parteikollege schrieb mir in einer Mail, dass ich öffentlich zu perfekt auftreten würde, zum Beispiel in Talkshows. Ich solle doch hier und da mal Fehler machen oder eine Schwäche zeigen, das würde meine Chancen erhöhen, weil ich dann sympatischer und menschlicher wirken würde.

Hi, @long whale! 😺

Einmal hab ich von dir gelernt, ich sollte nicht einfach "sollen" als eine direkte Übersetzung für "should" hinnehmen. Generell wenn ich "should" als eine Empfehlung meine, lieber "sollten" benutzen. Hier in diesem Zusammenhang fehlt mir die Fähigkeiten dieses "solle" zu verstehen, wenn es nicht genau "should" bedeutet. Gibt es da eine Nuance, die ich nicht einsehen kann? Ich vermute, dieses "solle" könnte da wegen der indirekten Rede sein, aber dann frage ich mich, wie der Autor stattdessen sollten im Sinne von "should" da verwenden könnte, vielleicht "ich solle einen Fehler machen sollen"? ||oder hat diese Frage keinen Sinn?||

[plush pelican]

Hier ist es Konjunktiv 1, oder? Wegen "reported speech"

[whole portal]

yea

[plush pelican]

Darum die "würde" in allen anderen Sätzen. Konjunktiv 2 als Ersatz für Konjunktiv 1

[whole portal]

Er meinte, ich solle ...

[plush pelican]

Indikativ wäre "Ich soll", nicht "Ich solle"

[whole portal]

Theoretisch könnte es im ersten Satz glaube ich auch "auftrete" lauten aber das ist nicht so typisch

[plush pelican]

How do you do reported speech to differentiate between "sollen" and "sollten"?

Ich soll = ich solle
Ich sollte = ich sollte?

[whole portal]

Yeah I think so, sollte stays as it is

[plush pelican]

So this can't be "sollten", then, because it is Konj. 1 solle?

[whole portal]

Yeah I think so, the original person said Sie sollen and not Sie sollten

[plush pelican]

Isn't "Sie sollen" kind of harsh, though?

[whole portal]

(or the author mixed something up :p)

[whole portal]

it is 🤷‍♀️

Well it's also not impossible it's more of a paraphrased reported speech

So the uh

How do you even say Parteikollege in English

party colleague seems odd to me

[plush pelican]

So solle could = sollten?

[whole portal]

Well whatever they said, the gist might just have been something like "please be more human" and they made sollen out of it

Yeah thinking about it more the idea of sollen is less harsh than the actual word 🤔

So my theory is that the other person asked them/suggested to be more human and open to weakness and they paraphrased it and used sollen which then via K1 turned into solle.

[plush pelican]

How convenient, that they "paraphrased" in a way that made the other person sound meaner

[whole portal]

no

That's the part that's difficult to explain

Let's say you made a mistake on an exam and your teacher said something like
"Hey, lass dir bei solchen Aufgaben lieber etwas mehr Zeit und lies die Aufgabenstellung gründlicher."
and you would report that to someone else saying something like
"Er hat gesagt, dass ich mir mehr Zeit nehmen soll."
(which is typical in everyday language since K1 is often dropped)
that to me doesn't imply the teacher said "Du sollst dir mehr Zeit nehmen." which would be very harsh indeed

[plush pelican]

Oh, I think I've seen about this in my Übungsgrammatik

"Du sollst Frau Kümmel sofort zurückrufen

Weiterleitung eines Auftrags

(Frau Kümmel) bittet dich..."

So "sollen" can be used when conveying the wishes of someone else, even if they didn't actually say "sollen"?

[whole portal]

yes

[plush pelican]

But...Konjunktiv 1 is the exact reported speech, just converted to Konjunktiv 1, right?

Why do both?

Like, I would think you would either be like "er soll Frau Kümmel zurückrufen ...." or you would say, "Frau Kümmel hat gefragt, ob er sie zurückrufen könne", but not mixing in "sollen" in Konjunktiv 1 when that wasn't what was said?

Like, if you said, "Frau Kümmel hat gefragt, ob er sie zurückrufen solle"... well, that's a totally different meaning, isn't it?

[whole portal]

Yeah that would be different

[rapid zodiac]

Was ist der unterschied zwischen abwaschen und geschirr spülen

[long whale]

*Geschirr spülen (capitalization of nouns is not optional in German) - I think they are used in different regions, but both mean the same thing. 🌻

[rapid zodiac]

which one is used in austria

[long whale]

I have no idea. 🤷

[long whale]

It also doesn't really matter, since people will understand what you mean, either way.

[long whale]

I think this is about "soll/sollen" being used for "to be supposed to", if that helps any?

[icy flax]

So:

A: B, du solltest X tun.
B: A sagte, ich sollte X tun.

Ich hab die Frage länger als nötig formuliert. Sorry, alle. Danke für die Erklärung, @plush pelican und @whole portal

Im Endeffekt ist sollen, wie Susana beigebracht hat, nie "should" im Sinne davon, jemandem etwas zu empfehlen.

"to be supposed to"

[scenic siren]

Jetzt müssen wir ans andere Ende des Zuges
Why would you say "an das" if Ende is feminine?

[night dagger]

Ende is neutral, das Ende

@scenic siren if you’re ever unsure use the dictionaries mentioned here

faq definition

[stoic mauve]

What does this word mean?

The best way to understand the meaning of a word is to use a dictionary. Monolingual dictionaries such as dwds.de, de.wiktionary.org and duden.de will often provide the most accurate definitions and examples for a word. If you are not yet comfortable with using a monolingual dictionary, bilingual dictionaries are also an option (dict.cc, dict.leo.org, pons.com).

The key here is to empower yourself to find the answer on your own. Using the many examples provided in dictionaries like DWDS, Wiki and Duden can help you confidently understand the word, and how to use it. If you still have trouble; don't worry! You can use #questions, #questions-2 or the #942470380692590632 to ask someone for further clarification.

[scenic siren]

thank you

[valid veldt]

whoops

wrong channel

[dense forum]

Question. Apart from noun gender, is there a difference between Kein and Keine?

[south zenith]

not definition-wise
kein is always based on noun (gender/plural) and case

[delicate pawn]

There is a sentence in my Deutsch book that says "Du müsstest mal aufräumen!". I watched a video about Konjunktiv but I don't understand what "müsstest" is supposed to mean in this sentence. Can anyone explain pls?
Also what does "mal" mean in this sentence?

[long whale]

Konjunktiv 2 is often used for politeness.

[delicate pawn]

So... when I wrote that I'd had only watched the first half of the video but after wathching the second half ig it's a polite way to tell someone that they should do something

yeah exactly

thanks

[hushed yoke]

Wie kann ich TestDaF bestehen?

[long whale]

Please don't post the same question in more than one channel. 🌻

[pseudo fog]

So my german friends are telling me that "Ich bin Süßigkeiten gegesen" is wrong and "Ich habe Süßigkeiten gegesen" is the correct version. Apparently "Ich habe ohne Geschwister aufgewachsen" is also wrong and I should use "bin". WHY? I am so confused. I dont study grammar when I learn languages but this time Im kind of curious. Send help

If I dont understand, I'll probably just save your reply and put it in a box to learn later

[long whale]

Please check >faq Präteritum in #botchannel (I think the answer might be on page 2) and feel free to come back here for further questions afterwards. 🌻

As a side note, I'd be interested to know what languages you've learnt so far. I'm told learning grammar is kind of a shortcut when learning German.

[plush pelican]

1. German does not do progressive aspect stuff.

In English, we might say, "I am swimming". In German, they just say, "I swim", they use a simple tense.

Ich schwimme. = I swim.
Ich schwimme. = I am swimming.

If you mean to say, "I am eating sweets", it's just "Ich esse Süßigkeiten"

[pseudo fog]

I know that, and my intention is to say "I ate sweets"

[long whale]

Yes, that's what the faq is for. ;)

[pseudo fog]

I hate grammar, but thank you

it's the haben vs sein part, right?

so schwer

[plush pelican]

If you mean to say, "I ate sweets", you again have the same problem, which is that German doesn't distinguish stuff.

Ich aß Süßigkeiten = I ate sweets.
Ich habe Süßigkeiten gegessen = I ate sweets.

The first version is Präteritum
The second version is Perfekt

Both of these are past tense, and they have the exact same meaning, they are just formed differently and used in different contexts.

[pseudo fog]

I dont even know what aß is

[plush pelican]

it is "essen", but in the Präteritum tense and conjugated for "ich"

like "ate"

I eat. = Ich esse.
I ate. = Ich aß.

https://conjugator.reverso.net/conjugation-german-verb-essen.html

[long whale]

Have you tried languagetransfer.org - ? I think it was made for you. ;)

[pseudo fog]

I use verbformen

[plush pelican]

Well, you can see it there as well

[plush pelican]

Ah, see, this is why I don't like Verbformen, it's using English names for the tenses

[pseudo fog]

https://tenor.com/view/creepy-cow-gif-19489323

[plush pelican]

@pseudo fog Do you know about Perfekt tense to begin with? How to form it? "Ich habe gespielt"?

[pseudo fog]

I dont study grammar like you people do, I just immerse the language

I figured out how the past works

[distant sonnet]

It also has German names for the tenses? I currently have it on German

[pseudo fog]

but how exactly it works, god forbid

[plush pelican]

apparently, it varies depending on if you're using verbformen.com or verbformen.de?

[distant sonnet]

@pseudo fog are you on verbformen .de? 🤔

[distant sonnet]

Most likely, yeah

[pseudo fog]

no, com

[distant sonnet]

Try .de

It should show the German names of the tenses

https://www.verbformen.de/konjugation/?w=isst

[plush pelican]

Well, you see now the issue with never studying grammar, is when you go to actually produce German, you don't know how to do it

[pseudo fog]

it doesn't matter since I have a german app on my phone

[pseudo fog]

Not true

Plus, I am only a beginner and have been studying for less than a year

even less than one month

[plush pelican]

My mistake, so you do know how to figure out if it's "haben" or "sein" with Perfekt tense?

[pseudo fog]

No, that would be highly specific

[plush pelican]

Oh, so you don't know how to do it, then?

[pseudo fog]

and I am a beginner. Look, get off your high horse and understand that your way isn't better. Let me live

[plush pelican]

I am trying to tell you that studying grammar occasionally would make this a lot easier for you

And there are ways to learn grammar that aren't so terrible

[pseudo fog]

well, "occasionally" I do

but I don't do it systematically

makes the language learning boring

[plush pelican]

I like this YouTube channel. Check out these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWFjOK9sfBw
https://youtu.be/5vG9ofF0EHk?si=stpU-YGZXIvDosao

[pseudo fog]

thats why I gave up on Japanese

[long whale]

... to choose a language with even more grammar (as far as I know)? 🤔

[charred harbor]

German grammar is more difficult I think

[pseudo fog]

Languages are more than grammar

[charred harbor]

The problem is that there are some verbs like sitzen/stehen/liegen where both sein and haben are valid and the difference is regional, and I don’t think it’s even really possible to learn stuff like this without formal study.

Or other regional differences, for that matter

[pseudo fog]

I think that would only be useful for language nerds

And you learn about differences though experience

I am not saying that studying grammar is bad, it is actually extremely useful when you are not quite able to get the pattern

In my view, if you study grammar from the beginning without first just immersing yourself with the language and letting your brain try to figure out how things work, it makes the learning process dull.

[outer edge]

Hi why does it say "in den Geldautomaten"? why wouldn't it be "in dem Geldautomat"?

wait
i think it's Akk because the "in" is in response to a "wohin", but why does it say "Geldautomaten" then?

[long whale]

Correct, that's the reason for why it's Akkusativ. For why the "Automat" gets a weird-looking ending, please see >faq N-Deklination in #botchannel 🌻

[outer edge]

thanks

[fervent kernel]

Are those two sentences grammatically correct ?
Er wird 7 Jahre alt .
In der Zukunft werde ich ein Fußballspieler sein .
And if so, why don't we also add sein at the end of the first sentence?

[long whale]

Both are technically correct. Because "werden" is an interesting verb. I works as a "full" verb, meaning "to become, to get, to turn" (1st sentence: He's turning 7; He's getting to be 7), and it also works as an auxiliary for Futur (and also for Passiv). If you asked me whether the second sentence is idiomatic, i.e. "Would a native speaker say this?", I'd say "Probably not."

I'd go for "Ich werde Fußballspieler" (using the full verb) = I'm becoming a soccer player, or rather "Ich will Fußballspieler werden" = I want to become a soccer player

[fervent kernel]

This helped thx

[abstract flame]

Can anyone classify thise 9 prepositions by Akk and Dat?

[long whale]

If you haven't yet found the answer, check #questions message 🌻

[vague rain]

hallo, warum benutze ich "verschiedenen" hier und nicht "verschiedene": der Bundestag besteht aus verschiedenen Parteien." ?

[long whale]

What case is required by the verb ("bestehen aus")? 🌻

[vague rain]

is it accusative?

[long whale]

Guessing is an extremely bad idea. Check a dictionary, instead. Such as https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/bestehen+aus 🌻

[vague rain]

so the answer was dativ

[long whale]

Correct. Does that answer your initial question? If not, here's the relevant table: https://language-easy.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/German-Adjective-Endings.jpg

[vague rain]

yes that answers to it 🙂 vielen dank

[edgy helm]

hello what do the letters on the right of der Gruß mean?

[long whale]

It's the short form of showing what the plural of "der Gruß" looks like: "die Grüße" (German plurals are awfully irregular. That's why it makes sense to include it on flashcards.)

[vernal ermine]

Friends, I have one simple question. If you see a rechnung mit 25,99 Euro. Will you consider it as 2thousand 5 hundred ninety nine euro ?

[night dagger]

no, that is 25 euros and 99 cents

[fervent kernel]

During the conversation, I was curious about how German people talk about time, party.

[vernal ermine]

Then how they will write in a rechnung with a value of 2 thousand 5 hundred ninety nine euro?

[deep thicket]

2599€ or 2599,00€

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank

[delicate tiger]

2.599€ if you want to separate them

[vernal ermine]

I have another question : why we use " Stimmt so " ?

[vernal ermine]

Is it common to separate?

[deep thicket]

meinst du "stimmt das so?"

[deep thicket]

its usually seperated on bills i think
i don't think it matters when you write it though
it's more professional

you can use it if you want to

[vernal ermine]

Yes I want to know about it.

Often I see it in dialogue but I don't know about it.

[deep thicket]

it just means "is that right?"

[delicate tiger]

when paying a bill, instead of/as a tip you say "Stimmt so": you are tipping all the change