questions

[mental ermine]

what about this one

[winter kayak]

ja genau, that should be the app. Nico's Weg is 'produced' by Deutsche Welle 😄

[mental ermine]

send the link

[winter kayak]

https://learngerman.dw.com/de/nicos-weg/c-36519687

[mental ermine]

is it Free?

[winter kayak]

yes

[mental ermine]

ok, thanks

[graceful yarrow]

Hello, I am new here and I want to know. Is Duolingo good for getting to b1 b2 levels before enrolling in a language centre?

I am already on track to be on the 2nd section of duo lingo but the end of summer or before that

[frosty aurora]

Duo is only good for vocabulary and for words ordering, helped me a lot when i started, but for b1 i doubt

[winter kayak]

faq duolingo

[livid steeple]

Duolingo

Duolingo is a decent resource to start with if you're a complete beginner, but it's neither efficient nor comprehensive!

What Duolingo will teach you about grammar is very limited, and none of the systems they use will help you practise much of it.
You can learn some vocabulary with it, but their method (based on the concept of spaced repetition) doesn't work for everybody, and the way Duolingo teaches is not very effective compared to the amount of time it requires from you.

So, if you find it useful, by all means keep using it, but remember not to fall for its gamification of language learning, and move past it when it stops being beneficial. Ignore the streaks.

In any case, keep in mind that Duolingo is not enough to learn a language, ever.

If you're looking for guidance or alternatives, check out >faq beginner in our #botchannel .

[graceful yarrow]

Apparently a few weeks ago they increased support and lesson plan for their most populated languages aka German

[frosty aurora]

just at some point it gets boring, the owl is annoying tho 😂 i prefer to watch some yt lessons

[graceful yarrow]

youtube lessons are a thing? It doesnt take much to entertain me. Ive just watched my clothes washer do a 3hour cycle the entire time. I dont know when to start gravitating twords learning centres

[frosty aurora]

well it improved my hören, also a bit pushed my ego that im able to understand videos in german lately

[graceful yarrow]

whats the channel you like the most?

[oblique snow]

faq Nicos

[livid steeple]

Nicos

Nicos Weg is a free online program aimed at helping people learn German. It includes video, audio, text, grammar explanations, notes, vocabulary, and exercises. It also includes very useful cultural and bureaucratic information, such as how to open a bank account, while teaching you the relevant grammar and vocabulary.

It’s fairly popular and well-recommended, but keep in mind that you can’t learn a language with only one resource, even if it’s a good one!

You can find the program here: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/nicos-weg/c-36519789

You can also see various other courses for learners by dw.com here: https://learngerman.dw.com/en/overview/

[frosty aurora]

taking a class was boring to me, but it helped me to succeed my exam, so everybody ought to do his own thing

[oblique snow]

Nicos Weg includes video

[heavy beacon]

Gegn. GLUMANDA ben. HEULER!
BISASAMs ANGR sinkt!
Mind helping me figure out what all these abbreviations stand for in Pokémon Blaue?

[lunar lynx]

Gegner; benutzt

[mortal kettle]

can someone help w my german

[scenic obsidian]

ANGR = Angriff, attack I assume

[heavy beacon]

Yeah, that would make sense. Thanks everyone. :)

[mortal kettle]

es ist nitcht zehr gut denn ich komme aus england

[keen mulch]

can someone explain to me why is there ,,sei" there and not ,,war" ?

[tawny fractal]

should be gegnerisches, not Gegner

[regal musk]

Sei is Konjunktiv I for ‘sein’. It used mainly in written tense to report something that someone said, so indirect speech. Mostly see it in newspapers

[scenic obsidian]

To add to what Tiff said:

This is like an "indirect quote".

A direct quote would be

Dad said, "You can go home today."

An indirect quote would be

Dad said I can go home today.

Except in German, they have a whole tense mood to help indicate that it's a quote, that it's reported speech from someone.

[sleek pebble]

isn't it more of a mood than a tense

[scenic obsidian]

So when it says they apologized, the idea is that the next sentence is what they actually said to apologize, they said, "I'm simply just terribly tired."

[scenic obsidian]

You're a mood 😛

No, you're right

[sleek pebble]

actually, btw, the specific use of subjunctive in that example might be a more literary thing, but also just a witty way to phrase it because usually you wouldn't report your own speech in subjunctive like that at all, rather what others said, it serves to not change the meaning of what is being quoted, and to neither affirm nor deny it. however, when you do that with your own speech, especially the way the character above did it, it seems like it's implied the speaker might either be lying or just telling someone something they think they want to hear or would think approriate

because you are presenting your own speech in a way a newspaper would, which you would never do with your own speech, because you know what you said and you meant what you said

[scenic obsidian]

Really? Because I read Die Vermessung der Welt, and that author basically didn't use quotation marks and instead used Konjunktiv 1 like he'd made a bet with someone about how often he could use the word "sei" in one book 🤣

[sleek pebble]

he talked of himself in the first person in subjunctive?

i mean literally exactly like the example above

[scenic obsidian]

Oh, maybe it was third person limited

Der gnädige Herr sei müde, sagte der Diener.

[sleek pebble]

the speaker says "Ich entschuldige mich, ich sei einfach sehr müde" -- where the second part of the sentence impmlies that that's what he told the person after excusing himself. it is the correct way to phrase it, but using this construction specifically changes the perspective

[scenic obsidian]

Bonpland fragte, ob er sich Sorgen machen müsse.

[sleek pebble]

yes that's the completely normal use of it

nothing odd about that

[scenic obsidian]

Well, it was odd for me to read a whole book chock full of K1 and no quotation marks

[sleek pebble]

might be regional, but people where i live usually tell stories in K1

either K1 or just present tense

[scenic obsidian]

Do you live somewhere where Präteritum doesn't exist in the local dialect?

[sleek pebble]

like when you tell someone about what someone said, they would almost always use K1 consistently

[sleek pebble]

quite the opposite

it's more frequently used here than elsewhere

[scenic obsidian]

Wait, what if the story is in 1st person?

[sleek pebble]

then of course not

or well

wait i read that wrong

in any person

but i'm sure you can do the same in english when you tell a story like "so i'm driving down the blablabla until i arrive at the blablabla, where he's standing blablabla"

i just meant that

[scenic obsidian]

Btw, what is this from? I'd be interested to see a longer excerpt

[glacial crag]

This is pretty random, but please don't stop helping others

I remember you cleanly explaining bereiten, vorbereiten and zubereiten after I asked what the main distinctions between these words are. Thank you

[sleek pebble]

ooo thank you

[keen mulch]

fragment of a book I can send the whole thing

[scenic obsidian]

Here's the longer excerpt:

It looks to me like they wanted to avoid quotation marks until the sentence "Ich werde Ihnen etwas zeigen", perhaps to emphasize the sentence by having it be the first thing directly quoted, whereas the indirect quotes beforehand were less important background stuff.

The quoted sentence seems to be the "inciting incident", the thing that kicks off the rest of the plot.

What do you think? @sleek pebble

The journalist wanted to show them a shrine thingy. They visit it and do some rituals, and then afterwards:

hätte?

But you don't need to substitute K2 for K1 here, right? It could've just been "habe".

Now I'm confused 🤔

[timid belfry]

What are the best places to visit in South Germany for an American traveler who wants to stay away from the big touristy spots? I’m more interested in smaller towns, mountain villages, local culture, and places that feel authentic instead of crowded attractions. Would places like Berchtesgaden, Bamberg, the Allgäu region, or the area around Freiburg im Breisgau and the Black Forest be good options for experiencing the real side of southern Germany without dealing with heavy tourist crowds?

[latent furnace]

Aschaffenburg

[timid belfry]

okay cool any others or specific col things to do? i want to go in the fall

screw the guided tours id like to experience germany and have fun

[tulip meteor]

I wouldn't describe Aschaffenburg as very southern

[timid belfry]

looks more central but im down for anything

[tulip meteor]

It's closer to the Main Rhein area, FFM and all

[latent furnace]

The shops are great there. Its a small town shopping place and the big shopping area near the town castle is a great place too. I use to hang out there and it's not change much in decades. Only thing is the water area where the ducks use to be is way dirtier.

[timid belfry]

idk how germans like to party but i hope yall like southern americans that are nice lol

[timid belfry]

okay cool ill keep that in mind

[latent furnace]

It is very southern Germany. In Bavaria. I grew up there.

[tulip meteor]

In Bavaria doesn't mean much

Bavaria is big

[timid belfry]

do yall recommend city night life because ill have to fly in to the city because of international

[latent furnace]

Bavaria is only one area in Germany. We have many large parts. Bavaria covers the south eastern part of Germany.

[tulip meteor]

Aschaffenburg is more northern than something like Saarbrücken

[tulip meteor]

Not my area of expertise but I would assume all major cities have something going on if you know where to look

[timid belfry]

thats the funny part i dont lol

[tulip meteor]

Well what pulls you towards Germany?

[timid belfry]

i dont really know i guess captivated at an early age of the language and then im learning the language or trying to lol but it seems a great first country to start at

[latent furnace]

It is however part of the southern german. I know where I grew up.

[tulip meteor]

They were talking about Allgäu and Berchtesgaden, and Aschaffenburg is very different from that

[latent furnace]

They asked for great places to visit in southern Germany.

[timid belfry]

yes and im up for any suggestion to meet new people, make friends, and party lol

[latent furnace]

We also lived in Stuttgart.

[timid belfry]

well if anyone has any recommendations for a 26 year old male from Alabama im down for anything in Germany.

[gritty crypt]

Hrmmm, how specific! Are you perchance a 26 year-old Alabama man?

[timid belfry]

maybe how great is that intuition

[gritty crypt]

Quite great, in fact. People tell me I have psychic abilities...

[hot lion]

why does the cannel's flag keep changing?

[timid belfry]

i change them often

[hot lion]

okay :)

[timid belfry]

[sly oracle]

They are the flags of the native German speaking countries, aka DACH (Deutschland, Austria and Confoederatio Helvetica [Switzerland])

and don't ask me why one name is in german one is in english and one is in latin because I don't know

[hot lion]

okay

:)

[tulip meteor]

Austria is latin as well

But yes we should be calling it DÖSCH

:p

[sly oracle]

fair enough tho i don't think Austria entered latin until after it was already... not latin anymore

saying english was a bit dum though should've realized that it definitely wasn't english exclusive

[ivory rain]

Any B2 textbook recommendation? For self study

[limpid beacon]

2. ja haha
3. nein, nicht wirklich, ich versuchte in wenigen Worten die Frage zu bejahen. Nicht nur nachmittag aber auch früh morgen war es kalt. Dabei wollte ich dazu sagen, gestern oder vorgestern war es dann doch noch warm. Jetzt verstehe ich die Verwirrung. Nächste Mal schreibe ich mehr

[pseudo turret]

Hey very newbie question bur basically most verbs go always second in german even before the I or the he? Or I am missinterpreting the text because in this case fahre which translates to go, goes before the ich which means I, so a literal translation would be tomorrow going I am to Austria is it correct?

[astral yoke]

It would be:
tomorrow am going I to Austria
... in case you translate it word by word and keep the original word order...

[winter kayak]

the conjugated verb in a main clause (Hauptsatz) always comes in the second position. The first position is very flexible in German, so it is not uncommon for some adverbial information to take the first position (morgen in your example), the verb comes second (fahre) and then the subject (ich).

[scenic obsidian]

The subject can come before or after the verb in German, to be clear. It doesn't have to come before the verb.

German doesn't need the subject to come before the verb, because you can tell which noun is the subject due to 1) how the verb is conjugated, and 2) from cases/declension, but that's a whole other topic you'll be learning about soon enough.

[pseudo turret]

Yeah same as in spanish you dont need to say "el rie" because rie is already conjugated to el o ella but still its weird that the ich is after the verb is kinda fucking my mind ngl hope the more I study it the more I understand or at least get used to it

[indigo pulsar]

Kann jemand bitte den Unterschied zwischen zuvor, davor, vor, vorher erklären?

Gibt es Fälle wo man "wenn" mit perfekt benutzt oder haben wir einfach "als" dafür?

[winter kayak]

Zuvor and vorher are similar, both mean an earlier point in time.
Später gehen wir zusammen ins Kino. Ich möchte vorher was essen.
Ich habe nie zuvor so guten Hummer gegessen. (https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/zuvor)

Davor is also referring to an earlier point, but makes explicit reference to something already mentioned.
Ich fahre morgen nach Österreich. Davor kaufe ich mir Skischuhe.

Vor is a preposition used with a noun to describe before <thing>.
Vor meiner Reise kaufe ich mir Skischuhe.

Bevor is a conjunction which is used with a whole clause instead of just a noun.
Bevor ich nach Österreich fahre, kaufe ich mir Skischuhe.

All in all, zuvor, vorher and davor are all used similarly much of the time (though zuvor is less common, at least where I've been). Vorher and zuvor can be used without an explicit reference, whereas davor cannot. Vor and bevor are not adverbials, and as such are used differently.

[winged locust]

How do you tell easily whether a verb stem is weak or strong

And if its perfekt form ends with -t or -en

[indigo pulsar]

einfach auswendig lernen

[topaz oar]

Ich habe eine Frage. Was bedeutet die Verben Prefixes z.B. Er, Um, Ab , USW.

[scenic obsidian]

You can't tell just by looking at the infinitive form (spielen). You simply have to look it up/memorize it.

[winged locust]

any etymological rules that could help at least?

[topaz oar]

Dort sind viele Worte mit diesen Prefixes und keine Lehrer hat erklären.

[ember mortar]

Can anyone tell me how to join university in germany

[winter kayak]

#1033125270217048246 (but you should do your own research first)

[winter kayak]

there are definitely patterns and meanings associated with prefixes that clue what the prefix + verb means in context.

inseparable prefixes:
be- usually makes something take an accusative object
er- usually has a more or less positive connotation and is often used to express the start of something
ver- a negative total connotation, usually adjusts the verb to have the negative meaning instead of what it usually means
miss- self explanatory right?
ent- often triggers dative and is related to separation or removal

this website (and many others) explain this: https://www.germanwithantrim.com/blog/inseparable-prefix-verbs-in-german

the separable prefixes also have patterns, related to the preposition from which the prefix is adapted. But this is not always reliable, and it's usually recommended to learn prefix verbs separately from each other and their 'root'.

the thing is that learning the patterns to the point you have a true feeling for it comes from...learning lots of words. So the pay-off comes after a lot of learning instead of being super useful in the process 😉

[sleek pebble]

to make it worse, some prefixes are separable in some regions while in orthers they aren’t ;__;

at least in prepositions but i think also in some verbs

[astral yoke]

Since when is ver- a negative total connotation -> versprechen, versuchen, verlieben, vereinen, verstehen🤔

[winter kayak]

As I said, these are patterns and not rules. I didn’t make it up lol

[astral yoke]

I would have wished for a bit more cautious description like:
ver - otften a negative
bc learners often tend to 'simplify' things and when they see "ver- ...negative" one could guess what happens 🤷‍♂️

[winter kayak]

I said “usually” and offered multiple disclaimers as well as a source with more thorough explanations 🤷

If you want to offer more — and no doubt more could be said — it’s probably best to tag the person asking

[astral yoke]

Okay, maybe it's just me but with 'almost' every other example I found 'often', but not here 🤔

[graceful whale]

The website of a company says:

Auf der Welt Zuhause.
In Biberach daheim.

How would you translate that into English without repeating yourself? Daheim is stronger than zuhause, right?

[dire ice]

Was ist der Unterschied zwischen „Interview“ „Einstellungsgespräch“ „Vorstellungsgespräch“ „Bewerbungsgespräch “, und wie soll man diese Wörter im Situation korrekt benutzen? Danke

[scenic obsidian]

ver- has like 20 different meanings.

One of the meanings is negative.

Others aren't.

This is a problem with German prefixes--they often have multiple potential meanings, which you can't know simply by looking at them. You have to look up the definition and memorize which one the prefix means when it appears in a certain word.

[sleek pebble]

native to the whole world, in biberach at home

and yes in this instance daheim sounds stronger

zuhause you can be anywhere, daheim only in one or so

i guess some would disagree

[astral yoke]

You don't need to tell me 😉
I just reacted to lolo's post...

[scenic obsidian]

I write in English so that other learners reading this channel may also read the message and learn from it, it's not just directed at you.

[sleek pebble]

„Interview“ habe ich persönlich noch nie wen sagen hören, wenn es nicht um befragungen im fernsehen ging.
„Vorstellungsgespräch“ und „Bewerbungsgespräch“ heißen im arbeitskontext eigentlich so ziemlich das gleiche, man könnte aber argumentieren, dass, strikt gesehen, ein „Vorstellungsgespräch“ bloß ein solches gespräch ist, bei dem sich jemand vorstellt, aber nicht bewirbt, vielleicht wird das so manchmal verwendet, aber ansonsten sind beide wörter gleich.
ein „Einstellungsgespräch“ ist eher das gespräch, in dem man einen vertrag unterschreibt, also fest in einer firma angestellt wird.

[open cradle]

Can someone tell me about basic tenses in german

[dire ice]

Vielen Dank 🙏🙏🙏 sehr hilfreich

[strange agate]

ist telc b1 prüfung schwer

[paper pebble]

If I am a begginer what voice chat should I join?

[next igloo]

Hello everyone, I was wonder if "der weggegange Mann" is correct ?

[sleek pebble]

der weggegangene Mann

[topaz oar]

Vielen dank!!

[next igloo]

Thanks for your answer.

[upper jetty]

Hallo.. hat jemand ein bisschen Zeit und möchte mir ein bisschen helfen ?
Ich bereite mich seit paar Tagen vor, um im Landeswettbewerb teilnehmen, und ich bräuchte eine kleine Hilfe, um meine Antworten zu prüfen, und ich habe noch paar Fällen wo ich keine Ahnung habe, wie man das machen soll…

[indigo bear]

faq present tense

[livid steeple]

Conjugation

Präsens (Present Tense)
When you use a verb in a sentence (or clause), you have to conjugate it (change the form) to match the subject of the sentence (or clause).

For example, in English, we write I eat but he/she eats. The verb has a different ending! The concept is the same in German, except German has more endings.

The first thing you need to know in order to conjugate verbs is: which ending fits which subject? Here is a simple verb “trinken” (to drink) as an example:

trinken
ich trinke
du trinkst
er/sie/es trinkt
wir trinken
ihr trinkt
sie trinken / Sie trinken
(Note: the conjugation for sie (they) and Sie (formal you) is always the same)

Vowel/Stem Changes
There are a few variations and exceptions, but the most important is vowel changes (also called stem changes). Some verbs get a vowel change, which only affects the du and er/sie/es forms of the verb. (However, modal verbs and wissen have their own special pattern, which also has a vowel change in the ich form.)

Example: ich schlafe, du schläfst

Other Changes
There are various other differences but I can’t describe them all here, so please read these websites or use Google to find more information: https://www.vistawide.com/german/grammar/german_verbs_present_tense.htm
https://www.thoughtco.com/german-present-tense-verbs-4074838
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~deutsch/Grammatik/PresentTense/Present.html

[indigo bear]

Practice Room is good for beginners.

[spiral vault]

Please #help

#questions

[spiral axle]

how come “ich denke…” is right but if you’re trying to say “ich fühle gut” is wrong? like if you want to say i feel good

[versed verge]

Because 'fühle' is a reflexive verb and 'denke' isn't.
Reflexive verbs have the same object and subject. Like "I wash myself" instead of "I wash something else."

[spiral vault]

Butter chicken

[wary jungle]

Whats the difference between "Entschieden" and "bestimmen"? Both of em have the Same Definition in my Deck and i wanna know If Theres any contextual Difference

[static berry]

The difference is that "Entscheiden" is a decision that happens in moment.
"Ich entscheide was passiert"
"I decide what happens"

"Bestimmen" is rather to outline a rule or a given parameter.
"Ich bestimme die Regeln/Ablauf"
"I decide the rules/agenda"
LG

Some use cases, "bestimmen" can also mean "to say" in a commanding way. "Der Boss bestimmt, was getan werden muss"
"The manager says, what's supposed to be done",

[wary jungle]

Thanks for the explanation!

[rain hollow]

Ich fühle mich gut.
Geht auch.

[thin pollen]

Is there a difference between schwer and schwierig?

[surreal ocean]

Schwer can also mean something is physically heavy. Schwierig can not

[spiral axle]

what about “i hate myself” like would it be “ich hasse mich”

[frigid tinsel]

Reflexive forms don't always change the meaning of the verb. It only sometimes changes the meaning of the verb. The fühlen question earlier is actually two separate verbs with completely different forms.

sich fühlen can take an adjective, non-reflexive fühlen cannot.

Regular transitive verbs (ex: hassen ) can take on a reflexive form without really changing meanings.

I have an issue coming up with an English example because they're all crude / NSFW lol.

[pearl horizon]

Servus

Ich höre viel deutsch aber ich fühle mich wie mein Deutsch ist nicht verbessern

Naja nur bisschen

Aber ich bin hardstuck b1

Lerne seit 11 Monaten

Wie kann ich schneller verbessern?

Ich höre zu normal Deutsch Podcasts und YouTube und kann 65% verstehen

Hab b1/b2 Übung Buch

Mehr lesen?

[spiral axle]

ngl you lost me

i think i’ll have to google it or easy german search it or something

[frigid tinsel]

In English, some verbs can take adjectives and associate them to the subject. Ex: I am amazing. I feel amazing. Etc. etc.

In German, same thing. Diese Pizza ist gut! Diese Pizza schmeckt gut!

gut is an adjective, this is somewhat a rare property of verbs.

I played football good (wrong!!!!! Normal Verbs can only take an adverb. I played football well).

Ich fühle gut (wrong!!!! fühle means to feel with your fingers or actually touch something. Maybe this means that you can feel things that others cannot feel, like Braille or other blind codes... But it's not the meaning we are aiming for).

Ich fühle mich gut. (correct. The verbs form and properties change because it's a special reflexive form of the verb).

sich fühlen almost needs to be treated as a different verb than fühlen (non-reflexive).

[pastel swan]

Hi, "ist der Hammer" means "the most cool"?

[proud nebula]

not necessarily "the most", but very cool

[spiral axle]

OHHH DANKE

[pearl horizon]

Hilf mir bitte

[scenic obsidian]

Du kannst mehr lesen, aber viele Romane sind für dein Niveau immer noch so schwierig, dass es ein Kampf wäre.

Auf der anderen Seite bedeutet "lesen" nicht nur Romane... 🤔

Liest du Webseiten auf Deutsch?

https://www.nachrichtenleicht.de/
https://www.tagesschau.de/

https://www.reddit.com/r/FragReddit/
https://www.reddit.com/r/einfach_posten/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HeuteLernteIch/

Es gibt mehrere deutsche Subreddits.

[scenic obsidian]

Hast du das Buch durchgearbeitet?

Dieser YouTube-Kanal hat viele Videos zur Grammatik, auch für B2 und C1-Niveau: https://www.youtube.com/@Sprakuko/playlists

[scenic obsidian]

Na ja, ein Privatlehrer oder ein Intensivkurs würden helfen, aber ich nehme an, dass du alles kostenlos machen willst, oder?

Schreibst du täglich auf Deutsch?

Es gibt zum Beispiel r/WriteStreakGerman; dort darf man einen Post pro Tag schreiben, und der wird korrigiert.

9. Never attempt to reverse or avoid the decisions of a moderator. Any punishments will be reinstated and may lead to more severe consequences. This means, for example, if your punishment is to be muted for a week, you will have to start over from zero. If you want to challenge a decision, address the responsible moderator directly or any available moderator if you are unsure.

#rules message

Klingt, als ob du eben gerade eine Regel brichst.

[scenic obsidian]

Ich glaube, durch #report-issue ?

[tall fox]

'Dies war der Augenblick, Vater und Mutter zu rächen.'

what is the subject of the subordinate clause here? My understandng is that with zu subordinate clauses you are just adding another action to the subject of teh sentence it is subordinate to, but i dont think that works here

Vielen dank

[pearl horizon]

Mein Handy ist auf deutsch

Ich schaue mir einige TikTok’s

Und YouTube

Aber nicht so viele Websites

[pearl horizon]

Äh ich hatte online Unterricht mit meinem Uni

Aber ich sollte mit meinem Lehrer in person treffen

[pearl horizon]

Oooo klingt hilfreich

[gleaming lodge]

I need help with cases

Like I know the subject is the nominative case but what does that even mean and like how do you change a word?

[winter kayak]

faq cases

[livid steeple]

Cases

Cases
German has four grammatical cases (der Fall or der Kasus in German): nominative, accusative, dative, and genitive. A case alters a noun, pronoun, adjective, etc., in some way to mark its grammatical function in a phrase, clause, or sentence. For example, the main function of the nominative (der Nominativ) case is to mark the subject in a sentence:

Ich liebe die deutsche Sprache!

In this sentence, the pronoun ich represents the first person subject and is in the nominative case. Every noun, pronoun, adjective, etc. has form in every case and it is very important to learn all of them. For example, the accusative form of ich is mich:

Die deutsche Sprache liebt mich!

See >explain adjective declension to get started on that. Don't get discouraged by how much there is, it takes some time master.

To see an explanation of the usages of every case, see their individual articles:
>explain nominative
>explain accusative
>explain dative
>explain genitive

[gleaming lodge]

explain nominative

[livid steeple]

When do I use the nominative case?

The nominative case is mainly used:

- to mark the subject of the finite verb

Ich lese einen Roman.
Der Mann hat die schöne Frau ermordet.
Sie besitzen kein Auto.

- for the predicate complement of copular verbs (a verb that links the subject to the object)

Eine Maus ist ein kleines Tier.
Wir wurden gute Freunde.
Du bleibst immer mein Freund.

- for nouns or pronouns used in isolation, such as in exclamations or when addressing people

Ein schöner Tag heute, nicht?
So geht es nicht, du Idiot.
Ach meine Güte!

Page 2/2

[scenic obsidian]

Often, that's true. But not always. Sometimes, the infinitive clause has a different subject than the main clause.

[hollow pasture]

is it more common to not have to use the indefinite article with sein such as
"ich bin Fahrer" vs "ich bin ein Fahrer"

[tardy mason]

When talking about someone's profession in general, the article should not be used. Only when the profession noun has an attribute (i.e., adjectives and attributive clauses) or when talking about some specific person with the profession should the article be used.

[thin pollen]

Is the word arbeitnehmer used alot?

Or is it just a textbook word that you prob won't hear at all

[frigid tinsel]

Dwds has frequency counts

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Arbeitnehmer

Looks pretty common to me.

[sleek pebble]

it’s a formal word you’ll most often see on paper or in legal contexts or in the very context of employment

it’s not the same as an employee (Angestellter, Mitarbeiter) in most contexts by the way

you could say „Ich bin ein Arbeitnehmer bei Amazon“ and that might be factually correct but nobody would say that in this context, rather „angestellt bei…“ or Angestellter

[tiny narwhal]

.

[jade zodiac]

ok

[scenic obsidian]

It's not because of the verb, it's because of the noun. Certain nouns are commonly used without the indefinite article.

English also has certain nouns that are used without the indefinite article, it's just that the list of which types of nouns English doesn't use the indefinite article for and which types German doesn't use it, vary slightly.

In German, this concept is called the "Nullartikel" (null article)

Here is a list:

https://mein-deutschbuch.de/nullartikel.html

Admittedly, that website is in German; don't have time to find an English source currently

[pearl horizon]

Wait so then what is employee

I have been saying Arbeitnehmer

[wary jungle]

Whats the difference between "Kurs" and "Zuge"?

[oblique snow]

I can't think of a situation where they have similar meanings

[wary jungle]

What?

Oh my god

"im Zuge"

And "in dem Kurs"

Nvm im a dumbass

[wary jungle]

But Like arent they the Same thing?

"In the course?"

Is there any contextual meaning?

[sleek pebble]

what is the entire sentence

[wary jungle]

Just saw this and thought "Kurs" would also Work?

Although DK what the 4th Word is

[sleek pebble]

not really

[wary jungle]

Can you translate the sentence? Idk what it even means😭

I Just guessed off the Definition

[sleek pebble]

kurs as in a direction or way you’re headed like in naval contexts isn’t really used with „in“ but „auf“ i think but i don’t think people would use it metaphorically like in the english phrase

and if so then it would still mean something different, im Zuge kind of implies a consequence, while a course is progressive

[wary jungle]

Like "we are on course to reach x"?

[sleek pebble]

yeah

[wary jungle]

Can you give Like an example?

Also cant "Kurs" be used as in "deutschkurs"?

[drifting glacier]

Hey everyone. I recently got the book The Everything Learning German Book as was wondering if anyone here had any experiences (positive or negative) with it and/or if it seemed like a good start point?

[grand basalt]

who can help me study for my german exam tomorrow

[pearl horizon]

Was brauchst du

[vast flame]

Damn 75+ words a day?

[wary jungle]

Its pretty normal?

It Normally is Like 110 or smt in total incl new words

It Takes Like 20mins max

[kindred flicker]

Are there any outstanding errors on these?

[tawny fractal]

Check these again

1. h.
   2.) e. & i.
   4.) b. - first two are wrong, c. - first one is wrong

Everything else is correct from what I saw

[kindred flicker]

Thank you, I will review

[frigid tinsel]

I do about 150ish review cards/day. +10 cards or +5 new words per day.

[frigid tinsel]

I think I'm normally around 100 reviews a day actually. But 150 has happened if I have a bad set of days and get a lot wrong (which forces those words to show up again).

[uneven talon]

»Ich gehe auf das Gericht«
»Er geht auf den Zoll«

Are these sentences right? I'm trying to distinct the difference between auf and zu in the meaning of direction

[weak geode]

ich gehe vor Gericht
er geht zum Zoll

[astral yoke]

@uneven talon
Auf das Gericht -> you go to the building (maybe to get or deliver sth)
vor Gericht -> Aiming to have a court hearing (Gerichtsverhandlung)

[stiff kraken]

... Ländern, in denen ich nicht mal gewesen bin / war

hier geht besser prefekt oder präteritum

ich hab dieses Gefühl dass in diesem kontext perfekt besser klingt aber ich kann diese auffassung nicht erklären

oder vllt liege ich falsch und kopiere einf ne englische grammatikstruktur

[frank falcon]

Was genau willsr du sagen ?

[stiff kraken]

lass uns annehmen dass es ein selbständiger satz ist

Ländern in denen ich nicht mal war oder gewesen bin

was klingt natürlicher

[frank falcon]

nicht mal is kind of wrong

[stiff kraken]

hä

nicht einmal

[frank falcon]

Länder, in denen ich schon war /gewesen bin

Länder, In denen ich noch nie war

Countrys i have/haven't been to

[frank falcon]

Whats the sentence you want to translate to german?

[stiff kraken]

na egal eig

aber danke

[frank falcon]

Hm ok
Aber um deine Frage noch zu beantworten: präteritum und perfekt sind beide ok

[tawny fractal]

ja nicht mal bedeutet hier was anderes

Müsstest nicht einmal schreiben

bin hört sich besser an für mich, idk why tho

[vast flame]

How many of them do you actually remember :)

[frigid tinsel]

Well that's the thing about Anki. The review schedule with FSRS is excellent.

The 100-ish to 150-ish words you review per day are mostly composed of words from days, weeks or even months ago. Only 5 words / 10 cards are new today.

So to answer your question, about 80% I get correct every day as per my Anki stats.

Really anywhere from 70% to 90%, there is a fair bit of randomness in my performance.

I also have my Anki set to 80% FSRS. So it seems like their formula is working.

[winter kayak]

They must have assumed 150 new words. 5-10 new words is perfectly reasonable and review doesn’t really have a ceiling aside from the time you’re willing to put in.

[feral rampart]

I'm very confused with genitive pronouns. I've been studying grammar cases (like nominative, accusative, dative, genitive) and what I've learnt is that genitive is like the possessive case of German (though sometimes there is a difference.) But now that I'm learning about how it applies to pronouns, there's a whole nominative, accusative, and dative, and even genitive selection of possessive pronouns?

I'm confused with my own question, even

Forgive me if this is stupid, I grew up bilingual but my English is self taught so it's kinda just instinct instead of strict textbook stuff

[feral rampart]

I mean, if possessive pronouns are their own case, then why do all the grammar cases have their own versions of the possessive pronouns? Like mein, meinen, meinem, meines

how does it even work

maybe I'm just confused about the difference between genitive and possessive but this is so hard

maybe asking the question is helping me piece it together, but an outsider's point of view would help, and also maybe a better source for German grammar definitions

[frank compass]

How helpful is Duolingo in learning German ? I am currently on level 25 in the German for English speakers course.

[winter kayak]

faq duolingo

[livid steeple]

Duolingo

Duolingo is a decent resource to start with if you're a complete beginner, but it's neither efficient nor comprehensive!

What Duolingo will teach you about grammar is very limited, and none of the systems they use will help you practise much of it.
You can learn some vocabulary with it, but their method (based on the concept of spaced repetition) doesn't work for everybody, and the way Duolingo teaches is not very effective compared to the amount of time it requires from you.

So, if you find it useful, by all means keep using it, but remember not to fall for its gamification of language learning, and move past it when it stops being beneficial. Ignore the streaks.

In any case, keep in mind that Duolingo is not enough to learn a language, ever.

If you're looking for guidance or alternatives, check out >faq beginner in our #botchannel .

[winter kayak]

Genitive doesn’t really have to do with possessive pronouns. The latter can have any case.

[feral rampart]

What's the difference between the genitive case and possessive pronouns/articles?

my source told me it was similar, but it's not in German so it's probably inaccurate

[winter kayak]

Genitive is used like:
das Auto meines Bruders
Der Titel des Buches
Wegen des Wetters
Etc.

A possessive pronoun like mein can be in any case depending on position in sentence:
mein Pulli ist schwarz.
Ich liebe meinen Hund.
Ich habe meiner Oma beim Umzug geholfen.
Der Titel meines Buches ist “how to learn German fast”.

I guess you can think of genitive sort of like “of+article”, and a possessive pronouns like “his” (or hers etc)

[feral rampart]

I see, that narrows it down

I've been looking at the equivalent to English too much, it confused me

[sly oracle]

'mein Pulli' is a possessive adjective, the possessive pronoun would be, for example, 'Der Pulli ist meiner'

[winter kayak]

I assume you meant possessive article? Or is it different terminology?

[winter stream]

same thing

i think possessive adjective is the more linguistically correct one, possessive article is gravely unintuitive to me, but it is what it is

(really it should be possessive determiner but 'determiner' is not one of the parts of speech people recognise)

[pliant cypress]

‘Possessive adjective’ is an older term and more common in traditional grammar contexts. Linguistics, and material dealing with foreign languages, tends towards ‘possessive determiner’/‘possessive article’ instead, IIRC

[winter stream]

(its like a demonstrative but for possession not location in space)

[frigid tinsel]

This isnt genetiv at all. Possessive pronouns are simple enough actually: they are simply adjectives and decline just like any other adjective.

auf dem Tisch
auf eminem Tisch
auf meinem Tisch

Done.

auf den Tisch (onto the table)
auf einen Tisch
auf meinen Tisch

The pattern to memorize when studying adjectives is ein, eine, einen, einem, einer, eines. It matches quite readily with all adjectives and possessives. mein, meine, meinen, meinem, meiner, meines

[winter kayak]

They do not decline like adjectives!

An adjective with no article takes an ending (gelbes Handy) .

A possessive article will remain mein, no -es (mein Handy).

[frigid tinsel]

Crap. Well, I'll be back to studying again....

I must have misread something in that grammar section.

[winter kayak]

I mean you have a native agreeing, so there must be some places that say that. But they decline like indefinite articles, not adjectives, right?

[winter stream]

they decline like demonstratives, because they're the same part of speech as demonstratives, but this part of speech is not one of the traditional parts of speech you learn in school so it's moot

[winter kayak]

what is a demonstrative? When I hear that I think of 'dieses' 'jenes', etc.

[winter stream]

well, no, granted, they dont decline entirely like demonstratives. the uh stand-alone forms decline like demonstratives, the pre-nominal ones dont entirely

[winter kayak]

Possessive articles decline exactly like indefinite articles, there's not really a need to compare them to anything else, is there?

[winter stream]

well they're not articles is the thing lol

their purpose is not to mark definiteness

[winter kayak]

For a learner that is irrelevant. We're making comparisons not equivalences anyway.

[winter stream]

most things dont matter all that much at the end of the day, yes

[winter kayak]

There's not really a point telling someone they decline like demonstratives and/or adjectives when it's technically not true. It would make more sense to compare them to something they actually do decline like.

[pliant cypress]

This might help if you're already somewhat familiar—it can be useful at a glance to glean the relation between the endings. Overwhelming if not already familiar though, I'd imagine

[winter stream]

both are half truths serving different purposes 🤷

there is a more correct term but it's not one people learn in school and so it's black magic to them

[winter kayak]

Yeah, I mean we'd moved beyond the terminology/part of speech and were instead talking about how they decline, but who cares.

[indigo bear]

It's pretty simple to use the correct terminology and also explain what they decline like. "It's called [whatever] but the endings follow exactly the same pattern as indefinite articles."

No need to choose between accuracy and simplicity in this context.

[winter stream]

i agree with this

i do see the utility in speaking of 'possessive articles' but would prefer to say 'possessive pronouns/possessive adjectives(?), endings are like the indefinite articles though'

[glacial kelp]

Hi guys, gibt es die Möglichkeit in Dresden, ein Teilzeitarbeit zu machen ?

[winter stream]

thats a question for #1033125270217048246 moreso than this channel

[indigo bear]

I usually prefer possessive determiners.

[winter stream]

are you so bold as to speak of determiners with learners?

[indigo bear]

But yeah, determiners, adjectives, and pronouns are all terms you will see pretty often for this concept.

[indigo bear]

Yes? It's a pretty common and basic concept in learning German.

[winter stream]

i wouldnt know, i only have the native education of course where determiners as an idea dont come up

so i would have expected language teaching would want to avoid it because its not one of the traditional parts of speech

and thus a particularly unfamiliar term

but very cool

[indigo bear]

It's generally good to introduce unfamiliar terminology to learners, a little bit at a time as you go, so they start to get comfortable with seeing terms they don't know.

Of course you should not assume they will know what the word means. So you should just treat it like a name.

"This thing, which is called X, works like this..." And give a full explanation of how to use it and when.

Because realistically, if a learner is intimidated to the point where it prevents them from learning, simply by seeing a word they don't know, they are probably not ready yet to learn a language.

Because they will be seeing a looooooot of new words.

[winter stream]

true

[dry lintel]

is all the verbs that are nomalisiert with the artikel Die?

[tulip patrol]

No, e.g. Das Lesen

If thats what you meant

[dry lintel]

no like Verbesserung

or Digitalisierung

or Erstattung as well ig

[winter stream]

nominalisations in -ung are feminine, that is true

[dry lintel]

is there more way then ung

[winter stream]

the two most productive (freely usable) ways are das X-en (so using the infinitive as a noun) and die X-ung
there definitely are more ways to form nouns from verbs, but these two are perhaps the easiest to learn and use

das Ge-X-e is often used colloquially to imply it's an excessive amount of the verb action or that you don't like it or to give it some other sort of 'low' nuance

like das Gerede which is something like 'all that talk'

[dry lintel]

can u say beispiele for en

[winter stream]

das Lesen, das Denken, das Fotografieren, das Erstatten...

[dry lintel]

wait u can say das erstatten or either Erstattung

[winter stream]

both are possible

[dry lintel]

which one is mostly used for work space or professioncy

[winter stream]

there's some sort of mild difference in use which i cant narrow down right now

but these two are by and large identical in meaning

with some verbs, the -ung one has come to have a more specific and narrow meaning. das Lesen and die Lesung don't mean the same for example (one is just reading as an action in general, another is a more formal reading (and discussion) a text with a particular audience)

or Sitzung 'session' which is not quite the same as Sitzen 'sitting'

but with most verbs, die X-ung and das X-en are broadly identical in meaning

[frigid tinsel]

Der Gedanke

Lol

[winter stream]

i feel like i would only use das Erstatten if it refers to some phrase in the genitive? das Erstatten ihres Beitrags, not simply das Erstatten alone

[winter stream]

mhm masculine nominalisations of verbs are probably the oldest layer, in a sense, and are often the least abstract ones, and typically have vowel changes in strong verbs

but this is probably a bit too complex for this question

these are certainly the least productively usable mechanism

[frigid tinsel]

Yeah, just pointing out that there are a lot of things that might not follow any rules. But that's language in general....

Or at least, maybe have older and more difficult to say rules.

[winter stream]

yeah its centuries of use during which one or another word may have stopped being synonymous with something else and acquired a specific use in this or that case...

but das X-en and die X-ung are the two main ways to form an action noun for a verb

[hollow pasture]

dankee

[glacial crag]

Doch ich steige aus und bekomme sie am Ellenbogen zu fassen

Is bekommen used here the same was as "to get to do something" in english?

"I finally get to watch my favorite Team play"
"Ich bekomme endlich, mir mein Lieblingsteam anzusehen"

would this also be correct?

[winter stream]

negative, not so. the sense of bekommen as 'manage to do something' in the original sentence can't really be extended to the sentence you're attempting there. i dont exactly know why because bekommen/kriegen do match several of the extended uses of 'get' in english, but this one is not availlable in german at any rate

the way you would link another verb to bekommen/kriegen would also generally be with a past participle rather than an infinitive, so i think 'zu fassen bekommen/kriegen' is best thought of as a fixed expression

[glacial crag]

oh, okay. Thank you for the help 🙏

[plush locust]

"to get to do..." ist eher: "Ich komme dazu, ... zu tun" -> "Ich komme endlich dazu, mir mein Lieblingsteam anzusehen."

[glacial crag]

I'll note that down rn. Thank you!

[quaint lantern]

should i read/listen to any particular short stories or do i just look up "german short stories" or

[glacial crag]

yeah you could listen to stories on youtube that are suited for your current level

you can also do the same for reading, but there's honestly no rule that limits you to a specific type of content

Just make sure you can understand a fair amount of what's being narrated and you'll be good to go

[frigid tinsel]

Aim for any reading. Above, below, and at your level.

But set your expectations appropriately. When you are slow and struggling with things above your level, that's fine.

Above your level is necessary IMO because you will need to get used to real life people talking faster than you can keep up. So it's more of a "make sure my head doesn't explode and that I can keep my composure + wits while fast and complex German is directed at me"

[tawny fractal]

Why not just do both, read smth while it's being narrated or smth .-.

There gotta be smth like that

[frigid tinsel]

A lot of graded readers do this! I do recommend, graded reader + read along mp3 is great.

https://learngerman.dw.com/de/kurz-und-leicht/s-69137519

Kurz und Leicht also is narrated with subtitles. It's been a source of practice for me even when I was A1.

[scenic obsidian]

There's a YouTube channel that does this, which I've recommended here any number of times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzNXjRjvKPU&list=PLX2E6b7TzXuRdG8U5jWGQlaasoRr6Do1x&index=1

[scenic obsidian]

@quaint lantern

[quaint lantern]

thx

[remote bridge]

Do verbs always go first for questions

Because the errors on my recent writing test was questions, and they were fixed by having verbs go first

[teal reef]

generally yes

unless theres some sort of question word/phrase

[remote bridge]

Ah, like wie, was, wer, wann

[teal reef]

yeah

among others

[pale wasp]

I was initially taught 'g' at the end of words can be pronounced either like 'ch' or like 'k'. Perhaps it is the case with words such as billig or hungrig, but I dont think it is true for others like Zug oder Tag

[teal reef]

thats mostly only for words that end in -ig, often adjectives like billig or hungrig yes

Zug definitely not

Tag is sometimes pronounced more like "Tach" but thats not really standard

[pale wasp]

Thank you that makes sense

[teal reef]

Honig would be another example

[winter stream]

Zug definitely just the same as Tag

they're simply both regional

[frigid tinsel]

Maybe question-phrase? It can be like 1, 2, 3 or so words to start a question sometimes.

[winter stream]

german verb-second word order is always relative to phrases(in the linguistic sense) not individual words, yeah

you could ask An welchem dieser Tage warst du krank? which is far from the first actual word, because 'on which of these days' is one intimately connected phrase and doesnt get broken up by the verb, but its a common simplification to say it's the second word

(the alternative, being required to be literally the second word, even when it leads to breaking up longer phrases, is by no means unthinkable, such things exist in other languages, but 'after the first word' remains a common and generally serviceable generalisation in explaining german)

(you can build on it and explain exceptions decently well from it, i suppose)

[pseudo belfry]

Hello, how do I start learning german? I am struggling to string words together and der die das seems to be completely different per noun

[indigo bear]

faq beginner

[livid steeple]

How to get started

The simplest way to learn German is to find topics you don’t understand yet and search for explanations of them. This list provides you with a guide for which topics to learn if you are completely new to German. Type the topic into Google (or YouTube) and start learning!

Introduction

1: Alphabet (especially ä, ü, ö and ß)
2: Basic greetings (hello, goodbye, etc.)

Part 1 - Simple Sentence

1: Noun gender & plurals
2: Nominative case (What are cases?)
3: Nominative pronouns (I, you, he, she, etc.)
4: Verbs in present tense
5: Definite/indefinite articles
6: Accusative case (for nouns)
7: Accusative pronouns
8: Word order of simple sentences
9: How to ask questions

See Part 2 on the next page.

Tips

• Always learn the gender of a noun when you learn a new noun
• Learn to use a translation dictionary (e.g. dict.cc, leo.org)
• Use >faq resources to see our list of German learning resources
• For listening and pronunciation practice, try watching movies or videos (incl. YouTube)
• You can listen to pronunciation for words on websites like dict.cc, forvo.com, and others
• Practice writing sentences every day (and asking people to correct them)
• Ask as many questions as possible
• Don’t be scared to make mistakes!!!! If you don’t let yourself make mistakes, you will never be able to learn German

Page 1/2

[kindred flicker]

Any major mistakes?

[indigo bear]

It will take a bit of time to learn how to construct longer sentences. As a beginner, you just want to start with simple sentences, like with just a subject, verb and object.

Then gradually add a little more each time.

As you learn new grammar topics.

And yes, for der/die/das, you have to memorise it for each individual noun you learn.

Learn it as part of the word, like for example, if you learn the word "dog", learn it as "der Hund", not just "Hund".

[pseudo belfry]

okay, thank you i will take note of all of these

[pale wasp]

oh wow this is great

[winter kayak]

8h - she isn't looking for a person but an object (das Foto)
8p - you're correct that ihr is the subject, but that means 'den Mann' is the object. So it isn't wer but wen hört ihr.

[twin wave]

Anyone want to help me learn German

Or beginner

We can help each other 😉

DM

[winter kayak]

#1065443550004781067

[oblique snow]

Check 9f

[glossy plover]

Hallo

Ich habe bitte eine wichtige Frage

Hier, in diesem Satz ( Der Jahresabschluß der Kapitalgesellschaft hat unter Beachtung der Grundsätze ordnungsmäßiger Buchführung ein den tatsächlichen Verhältnissen entsprechendes Bild der Vermögens-, Finanz- und Ertragslage der Kapitalgesellschaft zu vermitteln. ) habe ich etwas gesehen, das ich noch nicht völlig begreifen kann. Und zwar: wenn es geschrieben war (ein den tatsächlichen Verhältnissen). Also wenn man so etwas auf Deutsch sagen will oder auf Englisch (wie z.B. : one of the (something)), dann fängt man mit Dativ an. Das heißt: Ich sage bsp.: Einem der häufigsten Fehler, die Anfänger machen, ist.... ODER Einer der wichtigsten Entscheidungen, die man im Leben trifft, ist..... Aber hier (ein den tatsächlichen Verhältnissen) konnte ich das aus grammatischer Sicht gar nicht verstehen.

[winter kayak]

es stimmt nicht, dass man mit Dativ anfängt. Der Fall des indefiniten Pronomens (ein-) wird vom Satz bestimmt. Genitiv Plural folgt dem Pronomen.

Einer der häufigsten Fehler, die Anfänger machen, ist...
Eine der wichtigsten Entscheidungen, ist...

außerdem handelt es sich hier um eine völlig andere Konstruktion:
ein (den tatsächlichen Verhältnissen entsprechendes) Bild -> An image which corresponds to the real relations/proportions/conditions

Das, was in Klammern steht, solltest du wie ein Adjektiv behandeln. Ein Adjektiv in Form eines Satzes...der Name dieses Phänomens entgeht mir, aber bestimmt irgendwas mit Partizip I 😉

(das hättest du sofort daran erkennen können, dass es ein statt eines heißt)

[glossy plover]

Herzlichen Dank für die detalierte Antwort. Aber bez. des ersten von dir geschriebenen Satzes will ich auch fragen, was ist mit (einer der Letzten) oder (eines der Kinder) ? Das kannst du auch googeln. Ich meine, es ist sichtbar, dass so etwas auch in Google in vielen Webseiten geschrieben ist.

[winter kayak]

wie gesagt, der Fall hängt vom Satz ab. Es ist durchaus möglich, Beispiele zu finden, wo das unbestimmte Pronomen im Dativ geschrieben wird:
Ich habe einem meiner Kommilitonen bei seinen Hausaufgaben geholfen. (Dativ, wegen des Verbs 'helfen')
Ich habe einen der Hunde gestreichelt. (Akkusativ, -> ich habe einen Hund gestreichelt)
Der Titel eines meiner Lieblingsbücher lautet 'Das Blut der Anderen'. (Genitiv, der Titel eines Buches)
und so weiter und so fort.

In deinen Beispielen sind ein Fehler und eine Entscheidung die Subjekte. Sie müssen dementsprechend im Nominativ geschrieben werden.

[glossy plover]

danke, also es hängt im Endeffekt vom Verb im gleichen Satz ab. Richtig ?

[winter kayak]

genau

[wary jungle]

So what are some Essential German books to Buy? Other than Grammatik aktiv and Momente im München

[orchid hornet]

You could look up Hammer's German Grammar and Usage.

[prime matrix]

Hello i have a question
I started studying German in a language center i have 3 session every week
Idk what to do for the rest of the week interm of studying German
I feel lost idk what to do

Please any tips advice or if u have a road map or study method to follow

Am in A2 Level now but i feel like my German is A1

[winter kayak]

faq best way to learn

[livid steeple]

Best way to learn German

There isn’t only one “best” way to learn German, especially since different methods work better for different people. However, this FAQ will outline the main aspects of learning efficiently, which you can cater to your needs.

If you’re a beginner, type >faq beginner in #botchannel to see our beginner guide.

Cover all skills

There are many combinations of activities you can use to study and practice a language. How do you know which combinations are suitable? The key is to make sure you cover each of the main skills with at least one activity. Some activities only train one skills, while some train multiple – either is fine, as long as all the 6 skills are covered somewhere in your studies.

The skills

• Reading
• Writing
• Listening
• Speaking
• Grammar
• Vocabulary

Which resources should I use?

It doesn’t really matter which resources you use, as long as you can follow along, and the information is correct and reliable. If you have any doubts about whether a resource is correct, feel free to ask. You do not need to find just one resource and stick to it – in fact, to learn best, it’s recommended that you use a large variety of resources and switch between them when needed.

Type >faq resources in #botchannel to see our list of resources.

On the next page

• Should I study all these skills every day?
• How much time should I dedicate to studying?

Page 1/3

[ivory rain]

Anyone know an app to drill grammatical gender of words specifically? I don't need to learn new words just wanting to drill grammatical gender of words I know and forget the gender of

[ivory rain]

I like the Lernkrimi series. They are graded readers aka mystery books that use easy language depending on your level and also contain exercises to test your reading comprehension. So you can read full books at low level German

[pliant cypress]

I'd use Anki for that, personally

[ivory rain]

Yeah I considered this but I'm not too sure how to set up Anki in a way to drill words I already know again? Maybe i can just import word lists and work through them

[acoustic pendant]

You can start watching anime with german dub, but for me it helped only if done regularly and for a long time

[pliant cypress]

Pretty much just that, aye. I make my wordlists entirely myself, so I focus very specifically on what I want at any given time. You can simply add words as it occurs to you that you don't know the gender that well, or keep note of them and add in bulk

And honestly, I'd treat any words whose gender I don't know just the same as any word I don't know at all—you can easily incorporate the former into the latter for learning/review purposes, rather than having to do focused drilling.

When I'm learning nouns, I never treat them as known unless I get the gender (and plural form) correct

[ivory rain]

I have a huge deck that I already made but the problem is the words I already know are very buried since I started my German study so long ago. I guess the mistake I made was like you said counting the word as known when I didn't 100% know the plural and gender. Maybe at this point it would be best to start from scratch? Kinda annoying but it might be easier to progress the deck if I already know the meaning and just need to pay attention to the gender and plural form now

[pliant cypress]

I would absolutely start from scratch in that case. I say from experience, because I've done that at least twice lol. It's so much easier to reset deck progress (or start a new deck, depending on your aims) than to deal with a messed up deck

The only downside is the first few days to a week of doing your reset deck feels very slow, because you only have a few cards at a time. But it doesn't last long until it builds up volume

[ivory rain]

Thanks for the advice I think I'll do that then back to A1 I go lol

[pliant cypress]

No worries lol, it'll pay off, just be strict with yourself on whether you really know it

[pliant cypress]

Also it can be worth doing similar things with other words forms, if you aren't already. For example, I'd learn a verb with certain forms of conjugation (from which you can intuit the rest)

[winter kayak]

just chiming in: I make a separate deck for gender/plural form. That way I can keep truly new words separate from gender/plural drills

[pliant cypress]

Oh, good point—that reminds me: I both do and don't do that - Anki lets you have a parent deck and subdecks, so you can generalise or specialise as you desire @ivory rain

[prime matrix]

Thank you for replying
My main goal is to learn and improve my German so i can pass the B1 exam i need a system to fellow
What did you do to learn apar from watching anime and shows or movies ?

[acoustic pendant]

I had a notebook where I wrote down all words and artikels i didn't know.
I also reccomend speaking a lot with natives

And it's also very important to learn new german words with Artikels

[acoustic pendant]

Good luck with your Vorbereitung

[light lake]

Why Schneinde?

if its du

[sleek pebble]

there’s an optional imperative form with an additional -e at the end of words that would otherwise, in their imperative form, end on either -d, -t, -ig, -ier, or any consonant succeeded by -n or -m

as i said, it’s entirely optional, mostly to make pronunciation easier

[wary jungle]

"Mittel" IS "means" as a way right? Like eating IS a means to get Energy?

[sleek pebble]

yes

[wary jungle]

Bet

Whats the Thing with "betrachten" "schauen" and "Sehen"? In my head they all mean "to See" but Like Theres No way thats true

I Always get em confused in my anki deck

Same with "beobachten"

[astral yoke]

study, look, see, watch (more or less)^^

[wary jungle]

Study?

Betrachten means to study??

Ooo wait

[astral yoke]

like a painting

[wary jungle]

Yea yeaaa

Make sense

Its viewed more formally

Does "tiel" have both der and das as the article?

[astral yoke]

Teil?

[wary jungle]

Yea

Mb

[astral yoke]

Look here it has both:
https://www.dwds.de/wb/Teil

[wary jungle]

Awesome thanks

[viscid lagoon]

does anyone have resources/suggestions for how to really get in my head how sentence structure works 👀👀

cz I can know what someone means when talking but when I talk or write a sentence they tend to be kinda jumbled

[teal reef]

Interesting, don’t think I’ve heard that before

[frigid tinsel]

Talk and get corrected often.

The fastest way to practice sentence structure and grammar is talking.

Also slow down and do writing exercises. Slower can help build correctness. While speed can give you more tries per minutem

[viscid lagoon]

are there any specific writing exercises online or something??? cz I'm not selftaught n do take classes, I js rlly need to practice on my own time for an upcoming test

[viscid lagoon]

Otherwise I can definitely do this

[frigid tinsel]

Yes but I use grammar books for this. Other people definitely use free online worksheets but I don't know where to find them.

You can self do grammar exercises with a diary entry.

Just write about something that happened today, but try to get all the grammar correct.

[viscid lagoon]

👍

I was thinking about finding some elementary level German books online as well to make writing in German feel a little more second-nature if that makes sense

[frigid tinsel]

Grammatik aktiv is what I use.

A1 through B1 exercises.

Should be around $30 or so, they also have significant amounts of .mp3 content for listening + speaking self practice of grammar and sentence structure.

[viscid lagoon]

👍

[quaint lantern]

Why is nitcht after the thing its negating? Is it not supposed to go before, does it go after verbs?

[astral yoke]

In this case it does:
Ich weiß -> I know
Ich weiß nicht -> I do not know

[winter kayak]

the conjugated verb is in the second position. Nicht follows the conjugated verb.

[quaint lantern]

so do conjugated verbs get priority?

[winter kayak]

In a main clause, the conjugated verb goes in the second position (not necessarily the second word, but the second 'piece', if that makes any sense). Nicht will pretty much always come somewhere after the conjugated verb in a main clause.

The only exception is if you're negating specifically the thing in the first position. So technically you could say:
'nicht ich weiß (-> you have to say something like 'sondern er' after this). But this is relatively advanced and not important for level A.

[quaint lantern]

so like it goes before nicht because it somewhat becomes apart of the word before it

[winter kayak]

I do not understand what you mean

[astral yoke]

Let's make another example
Ich habe meine Hausaufgaben gemacht -> I did my homework
Ich habe meine Hausaufgaben nicht gemacht -> I did not do my homework

[latent furnace]

Can I also ask a German question?

[quaint lantern]

"ich weiss" becomes one phrase so you cant put it in the middle of it

[winter kayak]

yes

[winter kayak]

well, yes that's also true

[latent furnace]

What does "manner" mean?

[winter kayak]

manner as in time-manner-place?

Or do you mean 'Männer' the word?

[astral yoke]

yk, there is no German word manner... 🤔

[latent furnace]

Yes, what does the word mean in this.

[winter kayak]

it means how you do something

so an example sentence:
Ich fahre morgen mit dem Zug nach Köln.

morgen = tomorrow (time)
mit dem Zug = with the train (manner or modality, 'how are you getting there?')
nach Köln = to Cologne (place)

In German you would say 'Tekamolo' (temporal - kausal - modal - lokal), manner is the modal part

[latent furnace]

I get it thanks.

[graceful yarrow]

Is DW learn german a good place to lear to b1-c1?

https://learngerman.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-9528

[hoary hare]

heey! Need to make sure I have done this one right. It looks fine, I think its fine.

[indigo bear]

This page has some patterns you can use as a guideline to start with: https://germanstudiesdepartmenaluser.host.dartmouth.edu/WordOrder/WordOrder1.html#nicht

[indigo bear]

Sure, but you need more than just one resource.

[graceful yarrow]

Is it a good resource

Im also using duoling in combintation

[indigo bear]

Yes.

[indigo bear]

Duolingo is not good and doesn't teach B1-C1 content.

[graceful yarrow]

they had a course update for german a few days ago

[hollow umbra]

Mannerschnitten? Lecker!

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manner

[silent fox]

Hallo alle, I have been taking Coffe Break German on youtube. Is there a dedicated place to learn Grammar?

[light lake]

what do you mean ?

a youtube channel for grammar? book ? chat ?

[silent fox]

A website perhaps?

Or video

[latent furnace]

Are these two sentences right.

1. Warum macht du dass?

2. Kost dass viel?

[glacial crag]

Warum macht du dass?
Kostet dass viel?

dass is a conjunction, it can't be used like that

[hidden rivet]

hey so im new to this language can anybody help me with the nominativ and akkusativ ?

[glacial crag]

oh, sorry it's supposed to be written as machst, not macht

didn't check that part when I copy pasted ur message

ich mache
du machst
er/sie/es macht

[glacial crag]

faq cases

[livid steeple]

Cases

Cases
German has four grammatical cases (der Fall or der Kasus in German): nominative, accusative, dative, and genitive. A case alters a noun, pronoun, adjective, etc., in some way to mark its grammatical function in a phrase, clause, or sentence. For example, the main function of the nominative (der Nominativ) case is to mark the subject in a sentence:

Ich liebe die deutsche Sprache!

In this sentence, the pronoun ich represents the first person subject and is in the nominative case. Every noun, pronoun, adjective, etc. has form in every case and it is very important to learn all of them. For example, the accusative form of ich is mich:

Die deutsche Sprache liebt mich!

See >explain adjective declension to get started on that. Don't get discouraged by how much there is, it takes some time master.

To see an explanation of the usages of every case, see their individual articles:
>explain nominative
>explain accusative
>explain dative
>explain genitive

[glacial crag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vsv8DN9EE&t=441s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPKH95g_9cs&t=535s

fill free to watch any of these vids

[empty vale]

I’m fully aware. They do not go past than B1 and that’s generous. They don’t teach grammar and just teach to memorize phrases.

[graceful yarrow]

They do teach grammar if im correct? Often times I have lessons only with the keyboard and textbox

[empty vale]

They don’t

[graceful yarrow]

is typing with a keyboard not grammar?

?

[empty vale]

No

[graceful yarrow]

how?

[empty vale]

You’re literally just learning how to memorize sentences

And their meanings

And I will tell you

The way Duolingo does languages severely lacks reflection of how ANY textbook of any language does

[hidden rivet]

danke schon

[empty vale]

I have literally finished 4 of their courses and can testify myself

[graceful yarrow]

so quit duolingo?

[empty vale]

Yes

[graceful yarrow]

and continue DW learn german

[empty vale]

I highly advise you to

[graceful yarrow]

?

[hidden rivet]

speaking of duolingo guys

[graceful yarrow]

DW learn german the app

[graceful yarrow]

yes?

[hidden rivet]

I still use it

Lowk 513 days streak and still in A1

No really worth it tho if youre just depending on it

[graceful yarrow]

i see why i should quit duo

thats kinda crazy

[hidden rivet]

well

i aint gonna sugarcoat it i wasnt doing efforts i was depending on it with no other sources with like one lesson per day just to keep the streak alive

dont recommend it , it literally felt like just a challenge i had to do on a daily basis

[empty vale]

And logically speaking no one learns from that

Practicing 5 minutes a day is not sufficient

[hidden rivet]

i got to learn the just used words

most*

[graceful yarrow]

Is "DW learn german" a good resourse

[empty vale]

Yeah I’d say so

Youtube has a bunch of good resources

[hidden rivet]

yeah

but id say discipline is everything

[graceful yarrow]

Unistalled duolingo!

[latent furnace]

Ok I tried this again. Can anyone correct me?

1. Funfzehn Minute ware zu schwier für mir.

2. Einfach Deutsch ware auch zu schweir für mir.

3. Praktika ware einfach.

4. Praktika will üben mit mir funfzehn minute jeden Tag.

5. Die learnen näme ist Skye.

6. Ich kann machen dass jedes Tag.

7. Ich macht dass in meiner zimmer.

8. Es ist online.

[scenic obsidian]

You tried what?

What's this for?

[scenic obsidian]

To give you an idea, this is just #1 corrected

Fünfzehn Minuten wären zu schwierig für mich.

well, it could be "wären" or "waren", depending on what the context is:

Are you saying hypothetically, like in the future? Then wären
Are you saying in the past, it actually happened? Then waren

[latent furnace]

I was saying in the past. I tried it today and I couldn't understand it.

[scenic obsidian]

then "waren"

How long have you been learning German?

[latent furnace]

All my life.

[scenic obsidian]

I don't understand

[latent furnace]

I grew up in Germany speaking both German and American. I am now low intermediate level.

[scenic obsidian]

When you say you "grew up" speaking German, at what age did you stop speaking German?

[latent furnace]

I never really stopped. I speak it still with my mom.

[scenic obsidian]

Have you ever written it?

There are a lot of errors in there, and not just spelling errors

I would recommend learning about:

• conjugating verbs
• word order in a main clause (specifically, where do verbs go)
• gender of nouns
• Adjective declension, aka: What endings you put on adjectives in front of nouns
• cases

Basically, starting from scratch learning the A1 grammar

YourGermanTeacher is a YouTube channel with a lot of videos explaining grammar for A1-B1 levels

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKCEuz6wxDQnM6p0MzAKc_stZHGW0tdCB

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKCEuz6wxDQkpEHEB85W2jlJzbStuBMft

[latent furnace]

I have always had problems reading and writing.

[scenic obsidian]

You mean like dyslexia?

or do you mean just with reading and writing German?

[silent fox]

Is it helpful at all to just listen to German speakers talk?

[grizzled fiber]

yes

[latent furnace]

I meant with reading and writing German. I didn't have to do it to much while living there. Also, even remembering the English ABCs is hard right now for me. LOL. Maybe that's where I need to start. However, my teacher said I'm B1.

[scenic obsidian]

So it sounds like you're a heritage speaker--a parent or parents spoke the language, you grew up hearing it from them, but you weren't immersed in it long enough to become a native speaker yourself.

I think learning the grammar explicitly would help quite a lot

[latent furnace]

I grew up with most of my family speaking it and I spoke it well too.

[scenic obsidian]

as I was saying above, that YourGermanTeacher channel can help a lot

[scenic obsidian]

"Ich macht", what's the issue here?

[latent furnace]

Yeah, I tried the first one and couldn't even remember how the alphabet goes in English.

[grizzled fiber]

why did u lose it

[latent furnace]

macht should be mache.

[frigid tinsel]

I do recommend Grammatik aktiv, it's a seriously good resource A1 to B1.

[latent furnace]

I don't know. To long in America.

[grizzled fiber]

did u stop speaking german with ur family when u moved to america?

[scenic obsidian]

Okay, so you do recognize the conjugation issue, that's good. Did you notice it before I pointed it out?

[frigid tinsel]

At 85 lessons, you can complete one a day for 3 months and get all the grammar back.

[latent furnace]

I was just in a class last term and my teacher said I was Level three, which is about B1.

[frigid tinsel]

It's also gonna be self paced so you can skip over stuff if you think you already know it.

[latent furnace]

Level 4 is the highest is that school.

[frigid tinsel]

The issue is that some of the grammar mistakes are categorized at A1 here. So if you jump to B1+ classes, you won't be able to keep up. They just won't explain the issues.

[latent furnace]

Exactly, what I thought.

[frigid tinsel]

False beginners are in a tough spot. You should probably self study to get the basics down before starting a class.

False beginners will relearn way faster than everyone else, to the point that you'll probably feel like you're wasting your time.

[latent furnace]

I am trying to study with my packet.

[frigid tinsel]

So yeah, self study with Grammatik aktiv and do a bunch of grammar exercises to cover A1 and A2 at the minimum.

Or other grammar workbooks, but yeah, just make sure you drill the fundamentals again.

[latent furnace]

That's a book right?

[frigid tinsel]

Yup

[latent furnace]

Ok, I'll talk to my team. It is 95 bucks.

[frigid tinsel]

What?

It's only $30 in my area.

[latent furnace]

Yup, looked it up.

[frigid tinsel]

Ouch, uhhhh.... Maybe find a cheaper grammar book then? Lol

Can you download the Internet version?

[latent furnace]

I can try if I had the link.

[frigid tinsel]

https://www.cornelsen.de/reihen/grammatik-aktiv-deutsch-als-fremdsprache-120002420000

Good luck!

Something in there is probably a PDF or similar version...

[latent furnace]

to much German to read

but thanks I'll look into this book

[scenic obsidian]

There are plenty of Youtube channels that explain grammar, and there are websites with grammar exercises

if you're concerned about price

https://www.germancenter-st.com/en/online-german-exercises-a1
https://www.goethe.de/ins/pt/en/spr/prf/gzsd1/ueb.html
https://german.net/exercises/
https://www.deutsch-lernen.com/learn-german-online/beginners/exercises_summary.htm

[latent furnace]

I just found a sample of the book you talked about and I finally understood something.

[cunning gorge]

Hi everyone. I was wondering if anyone can tell me what is being said in this audio file I decoded from raw text out of an xml. Tiny bit of background if it helps, this was from a speech test from the bing department at microsoft but thats about all the info I am willing to share. Please let me know if I am not allowed to ask stuff like this https://voca.ro/1kFLhJE1I4fn

The link is to vocaroo btw

Would attach a screenshot of it to prove the valid share link but dont have perms

[scenic obsidian]

The audio file sounds like some bad AI trying to auto-pronounce stuff and putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

At first listen, I have no idea what it's trying to say

[cunning gorge]

Yeah the ai part checks out considering it came from a folder labeled "CloudLanguageServiceLib_winrt.UnitTests.dll"

[cunning gorge]

I heard "geht" in there

And aus before that

"aus geht"

[scenic obsidian]

literally, I cannot figure out what it's trying to say. You're sure it's German?

[cunning gorge]

Not entirely sure but I think so. I have like 600+ days on duo of german and im pretty sure it sounds german

Not profficient enough to make it out tho

[frigid tinsel]

There are a lot of Germanic languages. Maybe it's a close relative?

[scenic obsidian]

It doesn't sound like Dutch or Afrikaans or anything to me

It sounds like gibberish. But I'm not a native speaker, maybe a native can figure it out

[cunning gorge]

Heres the section of the xml it came out of (The really long string is the base64 encoded raw audio stream, extends way further) https://ibb.co/4Zd1NB4h

Image wont embed bruh

imgbb share link

[scenic obsidian]

ahhh

I think they're using a German accent and mispronouncing the English sentence

I thought parts of it sounded like English

It sounds quite a lot like "I didn't understand what you asked", but with a German accent and fucked up

[cunning gorge]

Wait dude youre right

Im listening to another sample

And that is most definitely the case here

Very, VERY broken speech test lmao

[frigid tinsel]

I was correct! It was a Germanic language: English!!!

[cunning gorge]

Ahahhahaha

Much appreciated you guys 🙏

[hallow birch]

Hello! Any thoughts about learning grammar that way:
-> Main study event
Retrieval:
-> Same day : brain dump mind map + exercises
-> day 3 retrieval : feynman + recognizing input
-> day 7 retrieval : recognizing input + writing + speaking
-> day 14 retrieval : input + writing + speaking
-> day 30 retrieval : output only
The goal is to first study a point of grammar, immerse it a lot while actively trying to recognize that grammar point and then using it in my own output.
Then I will not try to go further with that as I will consider it will be "able to understand/use" and will not come back unless I do find a lack of knowledge or ability to use that grammar point
What do you think?

[winter kayak]

sure

[indigo bear]

Sounds fine but it's hard to tell how well it will work without just trying it out. I've never heard of someone learning grammar with this method. Some things to consider:

• Grammar can be hard to isolate in this way. Like what does "recognising input" mean in this context? How will you practice that? How will you practice speaking if it's just one grammar concept at a time?
• A lot of grammar concepts don't require this much work to memorise and learn to use. It's very variable. There are some that take a lot of practice and you have to think about it for a while, but many grammar concepts are things you just learn in 5 minutes as well. If you try to apply this sequence to every grammar topic, I think it will be overkill.
• Overengineering your study approach can lead to burnout so don't force yourself to follow a strict structure for everything. For example, you could just apply structures to the things you're having the most trouble with, but take it easy on the rest.

[hallow birch]

The idea is to first "study" the material to have basic comprehension and basic isolated application of it.

Then it's about recognizing it in real material (input is listening and reading) with the main goal to focus on finding these and making connections with how it has been studied.

Then at last would be using it with lots of care on one grammar point specific through writing or speaking.

I kinda have to pass through this in my opinion because although I have an okay level of English trough immersion for years of high level content, I still struggle with grammar. Even basic ones.

And I don't want to struggle the same in German

[indigo bear]

I guess I have a hard time picturing how it would work. The first step (writing notes + doing exercises) makes a lot of sense, the Feynman approach makes sense, and practicing using the grammar in sentences you write, but other than that it's hard to picture how this would work exactly.

Are you using a textbook or any other specific source?

[hallow birch]

Nope self study for now

[indigo bear]

What do you mean by that? What is your source of grammar info?

[hallow birch]

Oh you mean that

I have some old German grammar books like "Genial"

[indigo bear]

How old?

[hallow birch]

I don't recall, I was using them when I was a kid so probably 7-8 years ago?

[indigo bear]

Okay, that should be fine. German had a major language reform in 1996 and some minor revisions in 2006. So you should be careful with using books published before that since they will be outdated.

And how far are you in your learning journey so far?

[hallow birch]

I've had German schools for 8-9 years throughout my childhood/teenage hood and I hated it TT

So I've always been pretty terrible at the language

[indigo bear]

For the grammar though, are you planning to start over from scratch? Or did you learn some already?

[hallow birch]

I probably have some memories of years of German studying, but I never really cared so it's quite fragile

For instance, I don't recall any of them

[indigo bear]

What's the first topic you're planning to apply this study approach to? The steps you mentioned above.

[hallow birch]

I will probably restart from scratch everything tbh

I don't have a precise topic

[sleek pebble]

for the most part only in spelling, but honestly, it is not that big of a deal and in reality, the current and the pre-reform orthography coexist with one another. not contradicting anything or invalidating what you said, just saying this is only ever relevant for language exams i would assume

[indigo bear]

Hmm, I'm trying to get a sense of what the first "main study event" would look like though.

[hallow birch]

Well since my goal is to have the C1 level for next year, changing language matters a lot

[hallow birch]

making a resume of the material and memorizing it

[sleek pebble]

ah okay yeah

[indigo bear]

I can imagine why it doesn't seem like a big deal to a native speaker, but those small things make a big difference for learners.

[sleek pebble]

then you’re on the safer side sticking to the reformed orthography

[sleek pebble]

in what way? i think it’s worth it to read about the rules of the reform in any case because you are bound to encounter people spelling things in an outdated way no matter what, and knowing the rules helps you not get confused

[indigo bear]

Those are things for more advanced learners. For beginners, it's better to learn it correctly at the start and worry about outdated language later.

[sleek pebble]

i agree

[indigo bear]

Like yeah, you might encounter many kinds of things later, but you can only learn a small amount at the start. And the things you learn at the start are usually the hardest to unlearn/adapt later.

[sleek pebble]

just a good thing to be aware of though, it helped me with russian early on too

[sleek pebble]

yeah for sure, i wasn’t assuming a total beginner’s perspective

[hallow birch]

Well my situation is kinda special

As I'm beginner but at the same time have 7 years of class when I was a kid

So I'm terrible but not that much xD

[sleek pebble]

though for a total beginner it might still be a good idea to read a line or two about orthography because it does help you a lot, like understanding the concept of an umlaut and why they are spelt the way they are, this helps to discern between äu and eu for example, which i imagine can be tricky for learners as it also happens to be for natives sometimes (think „räudig“ - i have seen that word spelt wrong more often than correctly by natives)

[sleek pebble]

where are you from that you got 7 years of german classes

[indigo bear]

But what is "the material"? I assume you're going to be studying one topic at a time, right? Or are you saying you're going to summarise the entire grammar of the language and study it all at once?

[hallow birch]

Switzerland

[sleek pebble]

ah okay that was my best guess too

[hallow birch]

Nah it's about taking a grammar book, making my own resume and learning it by heart on the first day. Then doing the retrieval stuff

[hallow birch]

Yeaaah German is not much appreciate here lmaooo

[indigo bear]

The whole book?

[hallow birch]

Yeah most grammar

But slowly, not in one go

[sleek pebble]

in the french part or the italian one?

[hallow birch]

Sacrebleu

[indigo bear]

I don't think that will be possible. But update me on how it goes when you try it, because I'm curious to see the outcome.

[sleek pebble]

i also guessed that and idk why XD

[sleek pebble]

how are you gonna revise this

flashcards or just reading through it all

[hallow birch]

Sure!

[hallow birch]

@sleek pebble

[sleek pebble]

what exercises does that correspond to though

from reading that i don’t understand fully what you’re doing

[hallow birch]

The short idea is
-> Firt read, resume and memorize a grammar point
-> Then repeating it through some personal techniques + doing some isolated textbook exercises
-> Then it's about immersing through reading and listening, trying to recognize the grammar point and seeing if I understand why it is there
-> Finally using it by writing while having to use this grammar point (or speaking)

Doing it progressively with spacing time between each sessions

[hallow birch]

Sorry that is kinda vague as I'm trying to create this system on my own

[ivory rain]

Do you have any advice on how you set up the decks for gender and plural?

[sleek pebble]

abfluß ehehe

[winter kayak]

I write the German noun with no article or plural on the front, on the back with article and plural form

There is probably a great way to automate this as making the cards is annoying. I’m not an anki-expert

[grave dove]

Any good german songs to listen to?

[astral yoke]

Depends on your level, and style of music you like to hear, I'd say...

[grave dove]

im kind of a beginner, still around A2
music wise id prefer Indie or Rock

[winter kayak]

die Ärzte, die toten Hose are both rock or rock-adjacent I think.

Falco

[grave dove]

Interesting, Thanks alot

[sleek pebble]

one of those two sux ass but i won’t say which

[plush locust]

I vastly prefer one over the other.

[grave dove]

and which is that

[plush locust]

The one with the witty lyrics

[hexed root]

Ist dieser Satz grammatisch korrekt?

"Weder am Teich, noch an der Leicher, könnte eine Handtasche oder Burse, oder ähnliches gefundet werden, die die damit bei sich gehabt haben könnte."

[frigid tinsel]

Für Immer Frühling by Soffie

Political song but the lyrics themselves are actually very simple.

I'm unable to get the deeper meaning of all the lines, but I know a couple of them...

The surface level lyrics are good for A2 practice IMO.

More indie than rock though.

[grave dove]

Nice, i like indie alot as well

[frigid tinsel]

The acoustic version is a bit slower if you need a bit more mental processing time.

[grave dove]

I see, that could help alot

how about 99 Luftbaloons? i like that one

[frigid tinsel]

Verse 1 is very easy.

[sleek pebble]

Ist das eigentlich nur regional oder war das ein gesamtdeutsches Phänomen der entsprechenden Zeit, dass man die junge Gesellschaft gut in Hosen-Fans und Ärzte-Fans teilen konnte? x)

[frigid tinsel]

The middle verses have a bit harder more specialized vocab (fighter planes, war minsters, etc. etc.)

[grave dove]

I see, understandable but i think ill understand with some translating

[frigid tinsel]

Verse 1 rhymes in German. Which is a crazy feeling when the English version virtually has no rhymes...

[plush locust]

Parallelen zu den Beatles vs. Stones rein zufällig? 😂 Gute Frage.

[grave dove]

Lmao i understand, i can still translate automatically in my Brain for the easy verses

[sleek pebble]

oder bei frühem Hip-Hop Tupac und BIG

aber die logische antwort sind natürlich die ärzte.

da gibt es keine gültige zweite meinung

[grave dove]

Ja Genau

[kindred elbow]

How would I ask someone if they want to split a payment with me? Having a hard time translating

[scenic obsidian]

"gefundet" klingt falsch

gefunden? Oder gibt's ein anderes Verb mit "gefundet" als Partizip 2?

[astral yoke]

Haha, wieso eigentlich entweder - oder?? 😜
Ich würde sagen, wir haben beide gehört...

[astral yoke]

Nicht in dem Zusammenhang, ich kann mir nur ein schlechtes DEnglisch vorstellen, bei dem es um Zuweisung von funds geht 🤔😜

[plush locust]

Das war beiden Beatles und Stones doch auch so xD

[plush locust]

"gefundet" ist doch 100% echtes Manager-Speak...

[astral yoke]

Das habe ich auch gar nicht bestritten 😉

[astral yoke]

Deshalb hab ich 'schlechtes DEnglisch' geschrieben, die Armen können halt nicht besser. 🤣

[plush locust]

"Weder...noch" ist üblicherweise ohne Komma. "oder" ist auch ohne Komma. Beides schließt Wörter oder Sätze auf derselben Hierarchieebene zusammen. Das "damit" irritiert mich gerade, aber ich weiß noch nicht, warum. (Und das Partizip ist natürlich gefunden)

[plush locust]

Selig sind die...

[astral yoke]

😇

[plush locust]

Der Relativsatz da ist überhaupt komisch, zumindest schlechter Stil (und es müsste "..., die sie..." sein)

[tawny fractal]

verstehe den Satz gar nicht 😭

was ist denn Leicher? Leiche?

müsste es nicht auch konnte statt könnte sein?

"Weder am Teich, noch an der Leiche, konnte eine Handtasche oder Börse oder Ähnliches gefunden werden, die sie bei sich gehabt haben könnte. (?) gehts hier um Mord oder so? 😭

[plush locust]

Ja, Leiche. Sonst gibt das alles keinen Sinn 🙂 Da sind mehrere Rechtschreibfehler. (Und weder...noch ohne Komma dazwischen.) Konjunktiv "könnte" passt hier aber, denke ich, weil man nichts bei sich haben kann, was es nicht gibt. (Aber stilistisch gesehen: ich würde diesen Relativsatz erst gar nicht sagen.)

Was ist übrigens mit im Teich? Hat da jemand gesucht?

[graceful whale]

Can a German speaker let me know what the article for these Ohio rivers would be in German?

Ohio
Miami (no relation to Florida)
Cuyahoga
Scioto
Olentangy
Muskingum
Maumee
Licking
Hocking

You don't have to guess for all of them, any is fine. I'm just curious.

[plush locust]

Non-German-language river names are referred to with the masculine "der", presumably derived from "der Fluss".

(the majority of German rivers are feminine in contrast, though...)

[dire ice]

Eine Frage: „es sei ein Zug mit zwei Waggons gewesen“, warum steht es hier „sei“ aber nicht „war“ oder „ist“? Was ist der Unterschied und wie meint es damit? Danke im Voraus

[winter kayak]

Konjunktiv I, reported speech

Indirekte Rede auf Deutsch. Kannst du den vorigen Satz posten?

[dire ice]

„Es sei ein Zug mit zwei Waggons gewesen, erklärte ich.“ das(der) ganze Satz

[winter stream]

der ganze Satz, männlich

[winter stream]

wie lolo meinte, weil es indirekte Rede ist

[thin pollen]

Is the J in loanwords prpnkunced as the English or the German J?

[dire ice]

Vielen Dank

[winter stream]

well... which loanwords

english isnt the one universal language

in english ones yes its pronounced as in english (barring maybe a few very nativised exceptions), but in french loanwords its pronounced as in french, so similar but not identical to english ('buzzing' sch, not 'buzzing' dsch).
and some loanwords from further afield are nativised to german uses of letters, and not using english spellings as an international standard (though this depends)

[winter kayak]

der Job with English J, at least

what is the question?

[thin pollen]

So like most loanwords are pronounced the way they're unless the ones that've been nativised

What are some examples of nativised ones tho

[winter stream]

with j, Jute (the fiber) comes to mind. thats an english loan of an indian word that got spelling pronounced in german

[winter kayak]

Why are you just spamming people (including me) with friend requests? Sus behaviour.

[winter stream]

i would not expect this to be a huge issue as a learner, it's just that you can't for sure predict from seeing Joker, just, Jute, Jade, Jargon, Japan, Beijing how they're pronounced without good intuition

[thin pollen]

#1033125270217048246

[thin pollen]

Alr ig they're to be memorised with the words

What should my first guess be tho?

[winter stream]

these are respectively:
Joker: english j (because its english and not spelling-pronounced)
just: german j (because its latin)
Jute: german j (because its a nativised pronunciation)
Jade: german j (because its a nativised pronunciation)
Jargon: french j (because its french and not spelling-pronounced)
Japan: german j (because it's a nativised pronunciation)
Beijing: english j (because it's a chinese spelling-standard that matches english in this regard)

[thin pollen]

If I don't know the pronounciation is it better to go with the German or the English J?

As a guess

[winter stream]

i couldnt tell you, i dont have the experience of having to make this guess hmmm

[thin pollen]

#1033125270217048246

[thin pollen]

all good ty

[winter stream]

well if you can in some way guess that its going to be a relatively modern loan, you can guess english. spelling pronunciations of english j in modern loans is rare

i guess if you can guess that... something is a word thats been in german for over 100 years or so and it's an 'internationalism' (like the name of Japan), then i guess its likely to be pronounced with the native german j, because theres a bit of a tradition of 'undoing' the french and english pronunciations in words that were felt as "general words" that just happened to reach german via the french or english

you see this in a few other places, like how Dschungel in german, though re-spelt to be unambiguously dsch=english j has a german u not an english one (english u was a transcription of indian a though)

of how Algerien is pronounced with a hard g not french g/j because it was 'de-frenchified' in pronunciation, even though the french pronunciation reflects arabic pronunciation more accurately

but these are just some few odd results of history, nothing that you would otherwise come across a lot

[thin pollen]

Alr thx alot

@hexed lantern ngl you getting reported 💔

For scamming

[glacial crag]

"Wir machen weiter, selbst wenn wir schon an unsere Grenzen gelangt sind."
can I replace selbst for sogar in this sentence?

[plush locust]

Ja, synonym, aber ich würde "selbst" vorziehen. Ich denke, das ist in dieser Funktion häufiger in gesprochener Sprache.

[glacial crag]

danke sehr 🙂

[dim isle]

Würde „unseren“ Schreiben

[glacial crag]

Das wäre falsch in diesem Fall

[plush locust]

Es sind aber "unsere",das ist der Possessivartikel wie "mein, dein" etc.

(1. Person Plural)

[dim isle]

Najut

[glass void]

,,Fordre niemand, mein Schicksal zu hören
von Euch allen, die Ihr in Arbeit steht.
Ja, wohl könnte ich Meister beschwören
es wär doch bis morgen schon zu spät"

Hello. I'm struggling to translate this. "O ye all who are at work, ask not about my fate. Of course I could (???), albeit by morning that would be too late."

Any ideas?

[plush locust]

Are you shooting for a localization (so, keep to metric, style, etc?)

[glass void]

Oh no, I'm most interested in understanding it first

I'm struggling with the meaning of it. ,,Meister beschwören"?

[plush locust]

Masters, ofc. Where is this from?

Das ist ohne Kontext zu offen

[glass void]

Fordere niemand mein Schicksal zu hören. A Folkslied from the 1800s

[plush locust]

(aber darum ist es auch Dichtung)

[glass void]

The full stanza is

Fordre niemand, mein Schicksal zu hören
von Euch allen, die Ihr in Arbeit steht.
Ja, wohl könnte ich Meister beschwören
es wär doch bis morgen schon zu spät
Aus der Wanderschaft lustigen Tagen
setz ich Kleider und Reisegeld zu.
Und so hab ich denn nun weiter nichts zu tragen
als mein´ Rock und mein´ Stock und die Schuh

[plush locust]

Ja Zeichensetzung hilft dann nicht zwingend 😂

Das "Fordre..." ist also die erste Zeile?

Ah this makes sense

[glass void]

But why are they talking about conjuring masters? I don't get it 😕

[plush locust]

Now to say this in English at 30°C 😂

Die Sprecherposition ist ein Geselle

Es ist traditionell so gewesen, dass Handwerker reisen müssen (das gibt es heute auch noch), während sie noch lernen.

Oh it's not a Geselle

It's rather someone who alluding to this time never succeeded at becoming secure

Maybe...

This is really well written because it's ambiguous

[glass void]

(Full poem: https://www.volksliederarchiv.de/fordere-niemand-mein-schicksal-zu-hoeren-1843/)

[plush locust]

...this is maybe even moving between focalizations

[glass void]

I think it makes sense!

[plush locust]

Ok now this makes sense

This is a person who is on the run for probably political reasons and he appeals by comparison to the experience of a worker (artisan), who knows how it is to be on a journey with only their clothes

Because they all know how it is because it's part of their "training"

Except that they are understood as such people, so they will get offers of work vs. food and lodging, but he as a fugitive has nothing the like, no matter what he may be able to do

That's about the gist of what this is about, I think

I do lack the specific historical context to say what 1843 and Schlesien would point towards

The trainee on a journey will be welcomed and end somewhere, but he has no certainty whatsoever

And now you pretty much have to interpret this

[glass void]

So in ,,Ja, wohl könnte ich Meister beschwören / es wär doch bis morgen schon zu spät", he is saying "Yes, I could ask masters about this, but by morning it would already be late"?

[plush locust]

At the start he says "I don't demand of you, who have a job, to listen what I have to say"

[glass void]

OHHHH

Now I'm getting it

So "I don't demand of you, who have a job, to listen to what I have to say / Yes, I could submit to masters, but by morning that would already be too late"?

[plush locust]

That sounds possible (wohl könnt ich Meister beschwören is perhaps the trickiest one, but we're really talking about hermeneutics here, not linguistics haha)

[glass void]

Dankeschön für deine Hilfe. Ich habe viel gelernt 🙏

Ich habe Zupfgeigenhansel liebe; Deutsche Volkslieder sind schöne.

[plush locust]

Völlig abseits meines Gebiets 🙂 Ich mache zwar auch Literatur, aber keine deutsche 😂

[digital needle]

"beschwören" verstehe ich hier als "anbetteln" / "anflehen" (um nen Job vielleicht). Hab aber keine Ahnung wie das mit "es wär doch bis morgen schon zu spät" zusammen passt^^

[plush locust]

Das ist eine gute Idee!

Bis morgen, weil er auf der Flucht ist.

Er kann ja nicht bleiben.

[digital needle]

aaaaahh, ja das macht Sinn

[plush locust]

Und vllt. auch selbst: "Ja, ich könnte meine Lehrer um Hilfe bitten, aber bis dahin...ist es zu spät"

hmm

Das mag die Perspektive eines Gesellen auf der Flucht sein.

Darum hilft ihm ja niemand.

Oder diese Standpunkte vermischen sich (=das ist dann Dichtung)

[scenic obsidian]

Are you studying this for a class or do you just really like folk songs?

[glass void]

I just really like folk songs. I'm a Nursing student and I don't "officialy" study German

[scenic obsidian]

Do you know about the traditional wandering years of apprentices in Germany historically? That may help explain some of this

[plush locust]

I mentioned it above

[glass void]

I had no idea about it before Morri's comments.

[scenic obsidian]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_journeyman

[plush locust]

But this is framed in a political refugee/escapee context. It's just not clear whether the diegetic (=inside the text) narrator is a journeyman or just draws comparisons

Which, I think, makes this good poetry

[scenic obsidian]

Interesting, I found another variant of the song talking about the US:

https://www.geschichte-in-liedern.de/Fordre-niemand,-mein-Schicksal-zu-hoeren/

This one is framed as talking about soldiers, seemingly

[digital needle]

in case you are looking for more, I can recommend these two :)
https://open.spotify.com/intl-de/track/6GABWf0ZLTag6EmK3gniSV?si=0f4baa77c49d4e18
https://open.spotify.com/intl-de/track/56PDxkcmgBlv6QMwI7wOhW?si=7039e54c397743c2

[glass void]

Oh I love those!

[plush locust]

Und viel einfacher zu verstehen... (Also, one soldier, not soldiers)

[digital needle]

Oh you already knew them. Makes sense, they're good songs. Very catchy ^^

[plush locust]

Also, I do think the focal subject here goes: I fought in a war, but were it the war in America [presumably referring to the War of Indepence or so, so for a principal cause], he might have become revered, but what he fights for in Poland is just some petty bullshit

[glass void]

Here they attempt to explain what the song is about. Regardless of whether it is right or wrong, still very interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb6qLL6jqpI

@plush locust @digital needle @scenic obsidian

[scenic obsidian]

I mean, it's the type of song soldiers would sing, because it's about them

[plush locust]

It's funny how this triple-@ means that only Argus should correct you 😂

[scenic obsidian]

Huh?

[plush locust]

Read it as a phrase, not as hypertext: "Morri, Tjus, Argus (korrigiere mich bitte)" 😂

Your alias just made it funny to me

[scenic obsidian]

Weberaufstände?

So revolts of cloth spinners?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weberaufstand

[plush locust]

So that's the context!!!

[scenic obsidian]

Apparently there IS a historical thingy connected to it

[plush locust]

I was certain there was, but this is way out of my ballpark as a historian 😂

[digital needle]

yeah, sounds like the one that argus posted earlier about a soldier is the original, and this one is a parody

[plush locust]

So this is by someone who lost his master / connection to and can't find a new one, so from a journeyman he just became a refugee?

[plush locust]

That also makes, unfortunately, sense

[scenic obsidian]

So basically it was a precursor to the 1848 stuff

Rising political consciousness built around a worker identity

And revolt against industrialization threatening livelihoods

[plush locust]

I would refrain from "parody", it just transfers the idea

[scenic obsidian]

In the video, doesn't the one guy literally call it a Parodie?

Does Parodie mean something different to parody?

[digital needle]

that's the word they used in the clip. But yeah I also think it doesn't fit well

a reference maybe

[plush locust]

I can't watch videos in public spaces (I have some basic decency people lost after COVID). But the connotation of "Parodie" is too strong in colloquial language to point towards "making fun of"

[marble gust]

if gehe is a transitive verb it should be with akkusativ but why in "Ich gehe mit meiner Tochter einkaufen" meiner is in dativ?

[scenic obsidian]

The verb alone does not determine the case of nouns

If a noun is an (object of the preposition), then the preposition itself is the one that is in charge of determining the case

[marble gust]

i think it is becouse there is a "mit" that is in dativ but this makes me a question. If there are two contradictory signals, which one prevails?

[scenic obsidian]

the preposition "mit" forces dative, regardless

There are some prepositions that are influenced by the verb, and so the verb does help determine the case of the (object of the preposition), they are the so-called Wechselpräpositionen or Two-way Prepositions.

But most prepositions actually are not influenced by the verb, and the preposition alone determines the case for the (object of the preposition)

[marble gust]

thanks

[scenic obsidian]

Here's a list of some of the most common prepositions, categorized according to which case they require for their (object of the preposition)

"two-way" are the ones which can be either accusative OR dative case, depending on the verb and the context of the sentence.

the others are all fixed with their one case

[pearl horizon]

Ich muss intelligent Gespräch führen

Im vc

Wie b2 Thema

[scenic obsidian]

Das ist eigentlich keine Frage

[plush locust]

Lies Zeitung. Wähle Thema.

[plush locust]

There are no contradictory signals. There are only two possible situations: (1) noun (...with article) comes before a preposition. (2) Noun (with/out article) is without a preposition. — (1) preposition defines the case (there is one set of exceptions) ; (2) it's a verb-object logic that is simple: (a) if a thing is possible, then accusative; (b) if it can only be a person, then dative. (2.2 is where I accept attacks)