Pebble 2 cases & buttons

[teal burrow]

black, not back

[thorny reef]

oh

misread

oops

[teal burrow]

though to make a custom back case I think I finally figured out where magnetic connectors come from https://rtlecs.aliexpress.com/store/1100877379?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.5f89kFG1kFG1Gs

[fallow tulip]

Here’s a photo anyway

[teal burrow]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800948091200.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis!USD!US %242.92!US %242.92!!!2.92!2.92!%40210328d417618618431406899ee8a8!12000030911668047!sh!US!2613253963!X&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.new_all_items_2007508569105.4001134405952&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa might be it

[thorny reef]

bootleg pebble charger!

[teal burrow]

well, more to the point, bootleg pebble charge port

[teal burrow]

FE504502 (ERROR_BAD_SPI_FLASH) on the new one a week later, after taking it racing today and sweating into the new one. Maybe this is a sign...

[thorny reef]

the new 2 Duo? or the new silk?

[teal burrow]

new silk

I do not have a 2 duo yet

[thorny reef]

ah

that's interesting

[teal burrow]

disassembled it and did not find anything obviously wrong

[fallow tulip]

I'm about to hit go on another order of Ti cases, @teal burrow want a new one?

I think I've fixed all the issues with the one you have, will likely have created some new issues instead

I also found these. tiny standoffs

[teal burrow]

sure! I'm all out of mainboards at this point but we can see

tiny standoffs would be good.

[fallow tulip]

might be a way to fix a back cover on differently

[teal burrow]

I imagine it would take much less time to do surface finish on a few at the same time rather than one at a time

how would you hold those standoffs in?

[fallow tulip]

The plastic insert works better on the inside of the case than these though

Press fit into an untapped hole

[teal burrow]

ahh

yeah that can work

if you have a drill press already, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cg8B_4FRX4 this guy seems to have a solution, a 'tapmatic'

I like the idea of bashing in a standoff though

[teal burrow]

@fallow tulip here's another wild idea. I think the pogo assembly has the entire thing overmolded. why not have a piece of SLS nylon that has locating features for the pogos, then insert the pogos and use the current approach of silicone to waterproof it and locate that into a new back plate?

[teal burrow]

update on P2D disassembly instructions: if you take a pick, you can remove the glue from holding the motor assembly in before removing the mainboard. then you can free the motor, which will allow you to free the mainboard

without having to bend metal

[teal burrow]

it's a minor miracle

I have assembled a TiAsterix

[thorny reef]

flash intact?

[teal burrow]

yeah!

[teal burrow]

update: my Ti Asterix was assembled with little enough internal clearance that something is pressing on the LCD and has put a hole in it

[teal burrow]

have you ordered yet? I think I don't want to tear this one down to put a new LCD in until I have a full new chassis built up to replace it with

[fallow tulip]

I did not, it’s a job for this weekend

[teal burrow]

I might also have some other DMLS Ti parts that I need made. I'm finally doing a major service on the grey bike so I need the internal cabling adapters that I was thinking of making. So if you send me new STEPs maybe I'll order them myself along with the new parts I need.

[teal burrow]

@fallow tulip Did you end up getting STEP files put together? I think I'm going to do a ProtoTi order today

[supple crow]

Has anyone tried to do a case for the time yet? Or is it just not all that feasible

[fallow tulip]

Fusion decided to crash and I’ve given up trying to get it to work and have rage-shutdown my machine for the night. I’ll drop you over a file in the morning

[teal burrow]

Reasonable. I'll finish up the model I need to do for my thing (it has an interference, IIRC, because I am a goofus) and wait for yours. I still hav ea bunch of other parts that still need to come for the grey bike.

[fallow tulip]

What you really need for your bike is one of these

Saddle-rail attached bottle opener 🙂

[teal burrow]

Good idea. But I run SPD cleats.

The specific parts I need are a variant on these. https://www.ticycles.com/ticycletubes/tcf-tubes-routing-ti-w322-internal-ports

[thorny reef]

I think there's just zero demand

[teal burrow]

I have the ports welded into my frame already. But what I really want is a dual insert. Housing stop plus brake hose.

[thorny reef]

the only reason so much R&D goes into Pebble 2 cases is because their buttons turn to goop

otherwise I don't think this thread would exist

[fallow tulip]

The Time Series watches don't fail often so don't need a replacement case

plus I may have become slightly obsessed

[teal burrow]

also I like the screen better on the B&W devices

[thorny reef]

I've had my 2 Duo for 3 days and omg the clarity is so much better than even my Time Steel

the reflectivity is awesome

I can just keep the backlight off like 8 hours of the day

[supple crow]

I have a time steel coming in soon, I just wish the bezel wasn't so big

But I haven't had hands on one yet, it may seem slimmer in person

[thorny reef]

it doesn't...

sorry

[supple crow]

It'll buff

I love the aftermarket case for the 2, I thought someone would've tried for the time/time steel

A time steel in a 2 case would've been badass, too

[thorny reef]

I think the problem is the motherboard is too wide

There's no way you can really reduce the bezel by changing the case

[supple crow]

Yeah I noticed that in a few teardown videos

[thorny reef]

if anything the screen to body ratio gets lowered, Astosia's cases are wider than the originals

[supple crow]

Gotcha

Either that or a larger screen would've been super cool

But I'll not-so-patiently wait for my time 2 to come in

[steel latch]

Not sure if this has been asked before, but has anyone managed to 3D print one of these? I've just got a pebble 2 but the case is in bad nick and atleast the up button has fallen out

[fallow tulip]

https://favouritehumandesign.com

For buttons and existing replacement cases

[steel latch]

Oh neato, thanks!

[fallow tulip]

This thread for new cases

[steel latch]

Yeah, I was wondering if anyone had tried to 3d print the new case design, but I can see how I didn't get it across well (and i'm assuming the answer is no)

[fallow tulip]

Or yes. 🙂

Not yet for sale though

[wraith aurora]

I think it was actually your upload of the case to printables that was how I even found out there was this new thing going on.

[teal burrow]

https://github.com/coredevices/hardware/issues/1#issue-3618852330

[paper flume]

nice!

time for pebble titanium steel watch? 😉

[versed kelp]

pebble time titanium

[paper flume]

hmm just had an idea

just replace the back plate

thats basically most of steel that touches skin anyway other than band

[paper flume]

I guess can do back plate, adoptors, and titanium 22mm band

back plate and adoptors probably is most expensive since it would be custom

[wraith aurora]

on the old P2HR, how did it behave if the heart rate monitor was disconnected? was it possible to disconnect it? I'm just pondering the feasibility of replacing the back plate of the upcoming PT2 to restore the gentle curve of the PTS and eliminating the HR bump.

[gleaming snow]

you could easily unplug the heart rate monitor from the main board if you took the back off. I remember it boots but i am not sure how the hr-specific parts of the system function

[wraith aurora]

well i supppose if i got into it for serious i could get into the firmware and make it behave. open source ftw! assuming the new one can also be removed cleanly.

[gleaming snow]

assuming, haha

silks run on the exact same board and firmware +-HR, so it's not too hard to switch whether it thinks it's an HR or SE model. I think it's in the mfg info, like with the color model? Joshua has experimented with it before

[hollow tree]

Pebble Timetanium

whoops, discord updated and broke vencord. sorry for ping

[dire dragon]

moonlight >>

[hollow tree]

this is offtopic but is there a tldr/one-liner why moonlight is better than vencord?

[dire dragon]

not really its just made by friends of mine

[severe glen]

Yeah if you flash an OSS build you could update the info pretty easily

[teal burrow]

if you could talk to it at all!

[dire dragon]

i made a one line change to overwrite it to the firmware on my silk
then I flashed that, then I went to prf to reflash normal FW

[hollow tree]

man i need to get around to learning how to do that

[severe glen]

Yup that's pretty much what I had in mind. It'd be easy enough to add some mfgtest options in UI to do the same too.

[fallow tulip]

I’ve ordered some new watch strap pins with skinny screws in both ends. Might mean I can get a pebble steel Ti to work with three lugs

[teal burrow]

oh yeah this reminds me, I need to find a vendor with reasonable prices on buttons

[wraith aurora]

has anybody ever talked about producing and selling P2D boards as kit components? cuz clearly you can make cases.

[paper flume]

thats one of things I hopoe will happen. I would also love side charging versions

[wraith aurora]

@astosia are you able to post your zebra strips to the states?

[cold hamlet]

I am the guy who raised the github issue on titanium case. Finally discord is working for me.
We can make the case buttons and the band all in titanium. As I said, titanium is stronger, more scratch resistant, can be surface oxidized to different color, feels warmer in winter and more confortable to wear, it will make pebble more durable and may also help in water proofing by being more rigid.

We have just developed a new titanium alloy that is easy to machining, milling, drilling and stamping, and it is stronger than the titanium used in iphone, over 1100MPa, we have done the test, but we don't have any major brand using it yet.

To make this work, I think first we need a survey on how many people like titanium case, then the design need to be modified a little bit, eg. make the case thinner since we have a much stronger material. Afterwards, a whole engineering team in Huizhou China will make this happen. We plan to make this a sample case for our material. I am estimating the cost to be lower than 20 dollars for batch production.

If possible, I'd like to arrage a meeting with the people in charge. Thank you very much!😀

[paper flume]

theres no real "people in charge" here. its just couple people hobby that also sells limited numbers

interesting idea indeed though

[cold hamlet]

I mean people managing the production, I read from eric's blog, the watch is manufactured in Shenzhen, Huizhou 惠州 is 30 min from Shenzhen

[paper flume]

ahh ok. yeah this chat is for custom cases by few people, not actual production pebbles 🙂

[teal burrow]

hi! yes, I am jwise, who you talked to on GitHub

astosia and I have been making some SLM titanium watches, because the setup costs are much lower than CNC

I do not expect that Eric would be interested in switching materials for his watches. I think the big problem for him is that his time is extremely expensive

and so doing anything other than "things that his CMs already know how to source and manufacture" is extremely expensive for him to do

[cold hamlet]

there is nonthing eric need to do

[teal burrow]

as you mentioned in #hardware the materials have gotten very cheap and the engineering for production is the expensive part 🙂

[cold hamlet]

we can keep the same price, same shape, but better finish, stronger body

the only thing you need to do is agree to use our case

give me the cad file, we will send you case with precision

[teal burrow]

you'll have to talk to him about official Core Devices watches, I think he's the only decision maker on that one. but me and a few friends here may be doing some relatively low volume watches (10 - 50 pcs) just for our own fun experiments with design, and it would be interesting to work with a supplier that has access to CNC tooling

[cold hamlet]

we have over 1000 precision milling station

[teal burrow]

our current cases are designed for DMLS rather than CNC so probably the current cad is not good for this. I think we may end up needing a CNC back plate, since this will be difficult to make with DMLS. keep an eye out here!

how is your alloy for stamping?

[cold hamlet]

we have not tested cold stamping, hot stamping wont have the precison needed

it best suited for milling

[teal burrow]

got it, thanks!

[fallow tulip]

Yes

[paper flume]

I definitely would be interested in those ti case, but I am only person and I would rather have pebble steel than most other watches lol

[teal burrow]

update: we're fucking around and finding out

[paper flume]

hope its good

[cold hamlet]

Hi joshua, we can make 100 pcs titanium cases at the same price.

And titanium buttons and pins with CNC. Let me know if you are interested.😀

[fallow tulip]

Core 2 Duo in pieces on my desk

Wonder if I’ve damaged it?

Will know later when I put it back together in a new case

Was truly a pain to break into the case!

Didn’t feel too bad though as this one has a cracked screen anyway

[teal burrow]

be super careful around the lower side of the board, that's where the extremely sensitive flash lives

[fallow tulip]

Back is glued on, and drying.

It’s connected. 🙂

That was a lot harder to do than a Pebble 2. Let’s see if it’s all properly working when it’s dry

[teal burrow]

Nice work!

I think once I learned that you can pick the glue off the ERM directly instead of desoldering it, it got a lot better.

@fallow tulip If you get a chance, do you have any idea how to draw an engineering drawing for our buttons? I want to order some to go with the cases.

[thorny reef]

oooo are you going ahead with ordering buttons from titanium guy?

will they be a more rectangular shape?

[teal burrow]

not from Ti guy, these are going to need to be much smaller than he can make with a mill. you need a micro lathe for this kind of thing. I found some folks who have a whole catalog of buttons on Alibaba, so I figure I'll do a run with some folks who have buttonmaking experience

[thorny reef]

ooooo, interesting

I love the Time Steel design with the cross hatching

super satisfying to press

[teal burrow]

I like these round buttons so that's probably what I'll go with

maybe a little wider of a radius on the top, maybe a little shorter

in the mean time, the display that I fucked up when I installed my asterix case has fully healed itself!

[fallow tulip]

Yep, I’ll give it a go. Based on the ones you bought from the UK?

[teal burrow]

Yeah, based on those. I mean, any changes we want to make, sure (probably buttons sticking out less from the case?). But I like those enough to order a few hundred of them, if you do.

And their pricing was a hell of a lot better than the Brits and Italians...

[fallow tulip]

I’ll start with replicas of the ones I have and mod the model

[versed kelp]

I would love some rectangular buttons myself

I do kinda wish there were more buttons there were more integrated into the design too though, and that seems significantly harder to do

[teal burrow]

What would this look like?

[versed kelp]

that's a great question

[thorny reef]

time steel

something with less of a silo protrusion

[teal burrow]

I guess I mean what defines something 'integrated into the design'?

[versed kelp]

I was thinking of something else when writing that

like instead of long pill on ct2, I would kind of wish the entire side panel was divided into buttons for instance

I was also considering buttons that are as tall as the entire device

but, that's a crazy design direction

[teal burrow]

so one problem I have now is that I have even the small buttons getting accidentally pressed by my gloves while I'm riding a bike

[versed kelp]

yeah

I do think having them be flush with metal body by having them be a side panel would kinda help that

but I don't know how viable that is because you do need to put the stem somewhere

and there is not that much space inside of those devices

[cold hamlet]

my english name is charlie😀 we can offer a wholistic solution, the town that our company locate has all equipments you can imagine

[teal burrow]

we will send you the engineering drawings for the buttons too!

[cold hamlet]

perfect. david is in china right now, I will meet him this weekend if you decide towork with us and he is still there

[teal burrow]

I think he leaves Tuesday or Wednesday but if you get a chance to have a beer with him you should!

mostly, for Rebble our volume probably is not worth your time, so the only reason you should do this is if you think it will be fun, rather than because it will make any money for you 🙂 that is almost the entire story around Rebble, we're all doing it for fun

[cold hamlet]

I know. I am for the fun. we can meet later😀

[oblique moss]

Looks great

[fallow tulip]

Now these are promising:

Double ended watch pins with skinny enough ends to mean no thread tapping needed in a steel style case

[paper flume]

ohh nice

[fallow tulip]

On a nice positive note for today, the rehoused P2Duo has been rumbling all day with discord notifications. even from a couple of rooms away. So in haven’t damaged anything on the BT side. Haven’t tried to update it yet though!

[paper flume]

looks great

[thorny reef]

what watchface is that? look super cool

[fallow tulip]

Titanium

[thorny reef]

aww it doesn't have unobstructedareaview

looks really nice otherwise tho

[fallow tulip]

Would you want the whole face to shrink down on quickview? Or become an oval?

[thorny reef]

I think most analogue faces with unobstructedareaview go the oval route? not sure tbh

it's a lot easier for Moto Maker because that design doesn't have that circle trace on the inside

[fallow tulip]

I was playing with quickview shrinking on a different watchface, you’ve reminded me I was doing that so I could incorporate it into Titanium

#app-dev message

[thorny reef]

oh the shrunken circle looks rather nice

maybe that's the way to go then

[gleaming snow]

fourier shifts the hands up to stay centered, but does not resize the dial. i always thought that was neat

like a controlled crop.

[thorny reef]

ooo that is pretty interesting

[thorny reef]

if you're taking feature requests, would it be possible to have an option that moves the date window to the right side of the dial?

most of my analog watches have it there

like by the 3 o'clock instead of the 9 o'clock

oh wait what

it moves around!

I never noticed that

that's really nifty

[fallow tulip]

Right side is its default position unless the hands get in the way

[gleaming snow]

https://discord.com/channels/221364737269694464/1416732059656781897

(don't mean to intrude)

[fallow tulip]

Exciting… new stock has arrived. Although almost all of these will be immediately posted out to backorders

[gleaming snow]

better begin buying bigger batches, haha

[teal burrow]

hey, @fallow tulip , can I harass you into makign an engineering drawing for buttons that I can send to my alibaba bros?

tell you what: I'll make you a trade. you make me an engineering drawing and I'll merge @versed kelp 's PRs

[versed kelp]

what

@fallow tulip I beg you

[fallow tulip]

Weekend jobs list has it on there

[molten zodiac]

This is amazing! I wish I had the money, I'd absolutely love something like this

[fallow tulip]

@teal burrow , which version of the buttons did you want (left or right on this picture)? And how much less do you want them to stick out of the watch?

(Blue or yellow)? cross section shows the o-rings and springs, but not sure they need that info??

I haven't drawn on here yet how the button shafts are attached. the cheap ones I've seen before have a c-clip at the end, located in a groove. The expensive Italian ones I think are screwed together, with the screw thread inside the button cap

picture of the blue one is 0.55mm less long overall than the ones I've used (5.45mm instead of 6mm). I can also make them more or less domed

[teal burrow]

I think yellow is what I have been using, but blue would be nice since the yellow catches on the rough DMLS watch case.

[fallow tulip]

I've DM'd you a link to both drawings

I have slightly longer versions of the blue one on my Ti voronoi pebble. it does help with catching but the ones I have stick out further than these drawings.

I have yellow on two plastic cases

[teal burrow]

ok cool. I dunno, whatever you think is right, but I assume they'll just make whatever we send them. I think the yellow one is what I have, and it is slightly longer than I want it to be?

[fallow tulip]

Yep yellow is what you have. How much shorter would you like it to be?

[teal burrow]

500um? 700um?

[fallow tulip]

Let’s see how short I can make them and still get the travel

[versed kelp]

that's exciting

short buttons!

[molten zodiac]

Isn't that right case the same design as the upcoming Pebble Time 2?

[versed kelp]

it's modelled after it

[fallow tulip]

It’s inspired by it. Before the official models were released, I had a go at modelling the shape of the PT2, and once I’d done that, I thought why not modify it to use the P2 cutout and see how it came out. I like it

[paper flume]

if nordic steel comes out, I hope you will design case for it lol

[thorny reef]

wouldn't the case just be... a Steel?

[paper flume]

custom steel case

[oblique moss]

my god the development in this channel is so amazing

you're rocking it astosia

[fallow tulip]

Very happy to have almost finished packing up backordered buttons: 53 sets nearly ready to go.

Either people have a lot of early failures on their Duos or they’re buying now in case I stop making them. Can’t complain I suppose!

It’s quite a zen way to spend an afternoon

[fallow tulip]

@teal burrow, 0.7mm shorter just about works:

0.5mm is better though

I've updated the drawings, the link you have should auto-update but let me know if not.

[fallow tulip]

Any shorter and there’s less travel on the buttons

[teal burrow]

Heck yeah, I'll send the latest drawing of the one on the left off to my Alibaba buds. I like the one on the right better but it is really annoying how much it catches.

[teal burrow]

I just want you all to know that I am currently in the process of ordering 200 custom watch buttons from Dongguan Jingli Watch Industry Co., Ltd.

[teal burrow]

exactly 3 weeks later, I am now at 3% battery. not bad.

[ruby obsidian]

pebble 2 without HR looks strange to me lol

[ruby obsidian]

also why I wish they sold kits

[fallow tulip]

me too

I quite liked the P2SE without the HR bump

[ruby obsidian]

kinda wish it didn't end up being a big bump

and rather inside the case if possible

since it does get uncomfortable

I like how apple did it on their watches

even though I don't use them

[fallow tulip]

I'm working on a new back plate with screws, to improve the waterproofing, and probably also remove the HR bump until I figure out how to incorporate it back in

[teal burrow]

a lot of this thus far is around 'learning how to do it' it seems

I'm kind of guessing at some point in the future that we'll end up fabbing out PCBAs for our own form factor and just getting our own front glass cut

[fallow tulip]

Main problem I have is the space in the lugs to fit the threads, rather than the back plate itself

keep ending up with walls around the threads which are too thin to print

[teal burrow]

yeah

well, it can be a combo additive / subtractive process

if they already have to do a finishing operation to thread, they can also mill the holes in the lugs or something

[fallow tulip]

very true. the Steel uses a combo of directly drilled holes (backplate) and inserts/collars (buttons)

can I use a silk backlight with an asterix?

[teal burrow]

yes

[fallow tulip]

I made a tiny hole in the Duo's backlight swapping the cases (when removing the glue on the motor I slipped and made a pin hole in the screen)

And the light bleeds from the top slightly. Think that’s why the tape was there?? I took it off

[teal burrow]

yeah, I have not been all that sensitive to LCD appearance

especially since the LCD in the current case was heavily abused

there is still a yellow spot on the back of the LCD, but all of the pressure-burned pixels have healed themselves

[fallow tulip]

I mostly got away with it if this is the only thing wrong on my first attempt

[teal burrow]

it seems so!

[fallow tulip]

Yeah, I’ve had two screens I thought were toast heal themselves

[teal burrow]

one thing I was thinking about for a next gen thing, where we could use the benefits of additive manufacturing, was to print the midframe as part of the chassis

[fallow tulip]

interesting idea

I haven't tried fitting the midframe first, and then everything else

[teal burrow]

me neither

[fallow tulip]

What's the likelihood of a P2 board and backlight surviving an accidental trip through a washing machine? any way to test the backlight without fitting it?

it's the only spare I have

[teal burrow]

backlight probably survived though do thoroughly dry it

board if the battery is soldered probably did not survive; if the battery is disconnected, 50/50?

[fallow tulip]

other than some scratches, it looks fine. the battery was not connected, neither was the vibration motor

[teal burrow]

the backlight has a bunch of laminations and I would be worried about the adhesives on those laminations

[fallow tulip]

it's since been poked into multiple test cases, so I'm hardly taking care of it

[teal burrow]

the silk boards are pretty hardy I found

though I would be worried about static, especially if it also took a trip through the dryer

[fallow tulip]

just a washer, was in a pocket. oops

[teal burrow]

I think you might get away with it, though maybe bake it to make sure there's no water under the BGAs

[oblique moss]

Any good info in the publication of the P2D hardware designs?

[orchid radish]

Really cool the titanium cases! I'm a former Pebble OG/KS and Pebble 2 user (with disintegrated buttons, and yes within a year or so :P) currently waiting for my Pebble 2 Time

I tried to donot a Pebble OG buttons on the Pebble 2 but I failed and broke something on the Pebble 2, so yeah I guess the ship sailed for a nice titanium case for it

not sure what strap I'd want to go with it

some people like titanium for the weight and sturdiness, but there are also people who are allergic to tin

the orange strap I recognize as one which came with my Amazfit Bip

not sure wat kind of strap I'd like, maybe try to combine it with a NATO one?

look of titanium after high temp is also a reason, personally I quite like these colours

[fallow tulip]

Anodised Ti is a great look. I haven't been brave enough to try it out myself yet, but Joshua's got some great colours on his

[high badge]

Every time I press the squishy select button on my Pebble 2 Duo, I come back to this channel to see how it’s going and it always exciting. ❤️

[fallow tulip]

trying an overcover design, getting this one made in Shore 80A flexible clear resin (silicone-like). Let's see how it prints (might not work, but always fun to test out)

[teal burrow]

ooo

[brave veldt]

I'm attempting to break into a glued Pebble Classic (my 12yo daughter wants a Pebble very badly) with nothing but a hairdryer, but am not having much luck. I managed to get one corner to hit about 80° according to the IR thermometer and got it pried up a little tiny but, but that's all of the progress I've made.

I have a hot air station, but it's in storage on another continent. Two options left:

• Print bed (100°C)
• Microwaved rice bag

[paper flume]

got floss?

apparently it helps get under and clear glue when its heated

[brave veldt]

Tried the printer, 100°C bed for 10-15 minutes with a small towel over it, body of the watch was 80°-95°. Just not quite enough heat.

One guy on Reddit said he left his out in the sun on a hot day and the front just lifted right off.

[fallow tulip]

not sure what else to advise, the floss idea seemed to work the best of those I've seen

[teal burrow]

OK, so tomorrow hopefully the new cases (and, more importantly immediately, the cable stops for the grey bike) should arrive

I wonder what the level of polish on them will be

[indigo cargo]

Okay so I have glued the screen back on my Pebble time steel 4 times already. I've used Sugru and B-7000 (at different times) and it is still popping off. Figured this would be a good place to ask for advice on what I'm doing wrong.

[teal burrow]

without looking at it, I'm not sure exactly, but my guess is 'be more aggressive about cleaning the surface'

[indigo cargo]

I guess I can give that a shot. I cleaned it with 91% IPA this last time.

Haven't cleaned the glue off yet

[teal burrow]

cases have arrived!

the m1.2 threads work!

[teal burrow]

test assembly seems to pass

button alignment looks good

I'm not a huge fan of the surface finish from the polish that prototi did

so I wouldn't pay them to do another one

I declare this one passes IQC

[fallow tulip]

Buttons are back in stock. This is my largest order ever!

Going to spend some time colouring and photographing a few of these to update the website listing

Also means I can finally finish the last of my backorders

[oblique moss]

daaaaaaaammmn

astosia single handedly keeping thousands of Pebble 2-likes alive

[versed kelp]

my hope as always is that people don't just throw the devices away

kind of wish that c2d box included a mention of there being alternative buttons

[sacred trail]

Ack, yeah :/ that's sad to think about

[mossy haven]

will they survive long distance shipment? (lol)

and is your shop accepting payment in dollars (sorry, I can order them only through mail forwarder and I want to be sure if I can order them to USA, since I cannot pay from my country and only seeing cost in £) stupid question, since costs can't be showed in dollars, I guess...

[somber junco]

You should be able to pay with any credit card, there's just not a currency conversion on the site itself. I haven't had any issues, at any rate

[mossy haven]

support of my mail forwarder just pointed out that shipment from UK to USA may have another 10-15% of tariffs on entry... guess I will not order it through USA, lol

[somber junco]

Oh does it not ship directly to your country?

[mossy haven]

Maybe it does. But I'm in Russia, so I'm not sure... It's not listed in cart countries list, so no

[fallow tulip]

I don’t ship direct to Russia, sorry: sanctions are complicated

The buttons survive worldwide travel quite well (I pack them inside router bit tubes).

Shipping to the US includes delivery duties paid at the point of purchase, so you shouldn’t get any extra costs for that part of their journey

[mossy haven]

I don’t ship direct to Russia, sorry: sanctions are complicated
Yeah, I got it. Hence using mail forwarder...
Shipping to the US includes delivery duties paid at the point of purchase, so you shouldn’t get any extra costs for that part of their journey
That's great. I need to think then

[mossy haven]

Will be ordering 2 pieces of buttons, just in case. And inside UK, which have mail forwarder's warehouse to ship to me

-# I'm sorry if I am confusing anybody with my shipment shenanigans, I just have a feeling that I can share with you all the joy of finally getting my first Pebble watches soon, at long last

[balmy lance]

@fallow tulip Weird question, would the publicly posted case designs work in polyjet? Might have an opportunity to try it, but figured I could ask before being completely stupid.

[fallow tulip]

The publicly posted models on cults and my GitHub are printed in either MJF or polyjet/multijet, so yes it’ll work fine

[balmy lance]

Awesome. If it somehow ends up occurring I’ll be sure to post results.

I’m being directed to ask if there’s any file usable for OG pebble button equivalents? Just to have it all look the same. I saw a “big button” STL on GitHub but not sure if it’s actually meant to be used.

We do have a spare OG pebble, this is purely for the sake of experimenting.

[fallow tulip]

The published models use Og pebble buttons yea. The ones pictured in this thread are trying to get around than problem by using off the shelf chronograph buttons, but those models aren’t public yet.

You set on printing your own or do you want a prototype to try out?

[balmy lance]

Experimenting on machines for experimenting, printing own would be nicer. Not to mention I’m pretty sure we’re in different countries.

Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by a prototype?

[fallow tulip]

I mean I have a lot of new cases already printed which aren’t quite perfect, or are but won’t get sold

A small sample

[teal burrow]

This reminds me that I need to spend some time doing surface finish on Ti cases for you, astosia.

I assume you want me to send them without waiting for the buttons, which I assume will be early January

[balmy lance]

I’d be curious to hear how much you’d want, but I can’t promise I’d be able to go through with anything.
Only meant to try this because we have some access to the fancy machinery in question.

The weird border of being a college student.

[fallow tulip]

I very jealous of having a polyjet printer available.

[balmy lance]

Frankly I have no idea how this can be approved but I’m not here to question it

This was the last effort

Totally unrelated to pebble though

[fallow tulip]

If you want to experiment with other shapes of cases, there’s a negative/cutout model on my GitHub. You can mod it to different types of buttons

Does your printer do flexible materials? If so you could print flexible/rubber like buttons.

https://github.com/astosia/CAD/blob/master/P2 interior cutout.stl

[balmy lance]

It does flexibles, yeah, currently doing cleanup on the regular p2 buttons to see how they look

[fallow tulip]

https://github.com/astosia/CAD/blob/master/Pebble 2 flexible buttons one pair new (repaired).stl

[balmy lance]

It’s a Stratasys J850, if that means anything

Yeah, ran that for now

But would be fun to do a whole case and get some buttons made to match it

Would using the button impressions in that negative potentially work?

[fallow tulip]

I have some stratasys polyjet flexible buttons I had printed. They work quite well.

[fallow tulip]

Yes you could remove the OG button cutouts and replace with the flexible buttons as a cutout. The button shaft holes (poles) would enable you to line them up.

I like the pebble 2 grandfather clock

[balmy lance]

Heh.
Hadn’t thought about using the flexible file as an impression, will definitely see if something can be done to make that look good.
Currently have the normal iteration of the v1 case running in industrial SLA as it was suggested that might be stronger than the polyjet (I can’t say if that’s true or not personally) but definitely up for seeing if there’s a way to combine the two models.

[paper flume]

reminds me of Narbacular Drop

not quite same but yeah

[fallow tulip]

SLA will be stronger than polyjet, but Visijet for example is strong enough for a case.

I did make a Visijet one with built in buttons (same design as my replacement buttons). It works

[paper flume]

nice

[fallow tulip]

Pretty sure it would only work in that material though, SLA needs a larger clearance between the parts

[balmy lance]

Guess I might as well ask: would that be something you’d be willing to share a file of?
I fully admit I’m not an expert here (I’m not even the one operating the machine) but if it stands any chance of working it would probably be faster than trying to rig a model ourselves.

Buttons standalone at the moment

[fallow tulip]

Yes if you promise to honour the licence (Creative Commons non-commercial attribution share alike). I’ll have to dig through the files to find it… I have far too many different versions of models

[balmy lance]

Absolutely!

The goal would just be to get one working one going for our one p2, maybe in a color if we get fancy

[fallow tulip]

There’s also a model for a screen removal tool linked on this thread somewhere.

#1345366437870567516 message

[balmy lance]

Nice. Was a bit worried about that part.

Already swapped the shell once, so should still have the old one to practice on

(Why do a complete swap, after that? Not practical reasons.)

[fallow tulip]

Personally I actually don’t like the shape of the pebble 2, all my rehoused watches look nothing like the original

[balmy lance]

My partner does, and she’s the one with sway here

[balmy lance]

Personally I’m not against the other designs, but I’m not operating the machinery

Getting anything in either clear or a nice color would be fun though

[fallow tulip]

That black one was briefly a clear SLA one. Looked lovely but I didn’t like that particular resin. Has an odd slightly rubbery finish to it

[balmy lance]

A pattern would be cool but I don’t have any ideas immediately on hand; don’t want to steal lavender’s brand doing a trans flag

[balmy lance]

Pretty

[fallow tulip]

These were quite fun

#1345366437870567516 message

#1345366437870567516 message

[balmy lance]

Yeah, the flags are great, just again don’t wanna do straight repetition if I can help it

Is that a necessary restriction? Perhaps not

But I could see a nice clear with tint or two-tone being pretty good

[paper flume]

I definitely want to buy one of cases someday lol

[balmy lance]

If you recall, was this one-piece one printed at mixed hardness or was it one the whole way around?

[somber junco]

Dw it's gay repetition so it's fine

[fallow tulip]

Cases I sell (the v1 and v2 with OG buttons) are printed on a 3D systems Projet in Visijet M2R-CL (Clear). Single material, solid at 32 micron layer height. That material allows 0.05mm clearance

What’s your workflow for patterns? Easiest I’ve found is to use Microsoft 3D builder to paint stls and save as 3mf

“Painting” was done with a patterned png rather than a solid colour to make the flags

[balmy lance]

Haven’t gotten that far yet, if I’m honest 😅
The one way above was pre-colored

[fallow tulip]

Try 3D builder then. It’s simple. Also an excellent tool for fixing stls (I’ve found it was better than other things like netfabb for fixing models with holes or non-manifold errors)

Shame Microsoft aren’t updating it any more.

[balmy lance]

Duly noted, will have to play around in it

[atomic hemlock]

I think a case like this would be sick for the pebble 2. Some guy designed it as a seiko-like https://www.reddit.com/r/cassettefuturism/s/WeG6Jx2HAf

[versed kelp]

there might not be enough space in that style of case for the guts

that looks significantly smaller than any pebble or core

assuming the screen is about the same size as it is on a p2

[balmy lance]

Not to be too obnoxious, any luck in finding this file perchance?

Unrelated: unmodified case print

[fallow tulip]

Just sent you a Discord DM

[balmy lance]

Received

[balmy lance]

Big goals

Will it work? Who knows!

[paper flume]

"what color do you want"
"yes"

[balmy lance]

I overlaid some splatoon 3 promotional art

Which definitely looks like that I can’t deny

[paper flume]

certainly interesting look. hope it works out.

[balmy lance]

Got it started. Preview says it cannot do any of the vibrancy but we’ll see how it looks

Besides that, 3D builder worked great!

[balmy lance]

Not quite a success.

[paper flume]

even more matte than intended, its certainly interesting coloring

what happened to print tho?

[balmy lance]

Unknown, have to investigate next year methinks.

Better start than it could’ve been but not fantastic.

Weirdly enough the colors are double wrong, the bluish greenish went to flat green and became flat blue

But more importantly it physically failed

Portions stuck to support but not the main body

[fallow tulip]

That’s a shame, but definitely an interesting failure!

[balmy lance]

If I can help it, it’ll definitely be tried again, just have to wait a while

Frankly it’s not as though this is urgent anyway

[gleaming snow]

chomp

[willow island]

I don't know whether this has been brought up yet. I find the buttons on my new Pebble 2 Duo to be stiffer than necessary. The buttons on my Pebble Time and Pebble Steel are fine. The buttons on my old Pebble Classic were fine too.

So, please assure that pressing buttons is not a chore when using your cases.

[pine lagoon]

Is there a way to make them less stiff?

[gleaming snow]

duo buttons are stiffer because of the plastic pieces added to prevent the buttons from caving into the sides of the watch

if the watch is disassembled or the rubber buttons are removed, you can pop the new plastic pieces out, and the buttons should feel almost identical to 2016 pebble 2 clickybuttons

i've seen early reports that pebble 2 duo buttons are much easier to press after the replacement

[teal burrow]

I really wonder how the button feel is going to end up on my shenzhen buttons

[wraith aurora]

Shenzhen Buttons sounds like a band name.

[willow island]

Like Shonen Knife

[willow island]

The Pebble Classic originally had a permanently attached back. Eventually, it was upgraded to a removable back. I'd like to restore some of the ones with permanent backs, but don't want them to end up with hacked up cases. It would be great for there to be a replacement case that has a removable back for them.

[teal burrow]

the display for those I think is glued in, right?

[willow island]

I think so, judging from some online videos I've seen. At any rate, after disassembling them, they don't go back together looking the same as before.

There is no substitute for a back designed to be removed and reattached.

[fallow tulip]

I’m no sure a full case replacement for an OG is feasible because of the glued screen. Replacement backs could be though

[paper flume]

theres 3d printed tool to remove front plastic

[fallow tulip]

Does that work with fishing line?

[paper flume]

yeah or floss apparently

https://www.printables.com/model/1507562-pebble-classic-screen-removal-jig

[willow island]

That link doesn't work for me.

[paper flume]

fixed

[willow island]

Thanks. Unfortunately, the person who posted the jig hasn't actually tested it yet. It would be great to see a demonstration of it working.

[paper flume]

the designer is in here, I guess been too busy or something

[willow island]

Are there instructions for dismantling the Pebble 2 Duo? In order to use one of the new cases, the old one needs to be taken apart.

[teal burrow]

see the pins

[willow island]

A video, or even photos, of this would be very useful.

[fallow tulip]

I didn’t video this, but these are the photos from the Duo swap into the tiny pebble case

[willow island]

Thanks for sharing that. Is it just me, or do the innards look more complicated than the legacy Pebbles?

When I replaced the battery and foam strip in my Pebble Steel, the innards all came out together in a plastic frame.

Well, except the screen.

[fallow tulip]

It’s very very similar to the P2 inside. There’s a photo guide on the P2 case replacement here:

https://imgur.com/a/cvdagKI

The glue is 10 years younger so harder to get through and the vibration motor housing is the most different bit. You have to bend the clip out of the way having picked-off (with a metal pick or needle) the glue around the motor

[willow island]

It's a crying shame Pebble chose to repeat the mistake originally made on the Pebble Classic by not having a screw-on back. They eventually did change it to a screw-on back.

[oblique moss]

looks amazing thanks for sharing

[willow island]

Will the back of the Pebble 2 Duo (Flint) come off so easily using a razor blade?

[gleaming snow]

you'll probably need heat as well. these are new watches with fresh, strong glue

[teal burrow]

I usually just get kind of aggressive

and I jam a flat head screwdriver or knife into the bottom of it and start reefing on it and prying

if the plastic doesn't have to survive, you can get away with a lot

[willow island]

I generally try not to pass the point of no return unnecessarily.

[teal burrow]

well, I dunno what to tell you, but disassembling glued Pebbles might not be for you, then

[willow island]

I'm not afraid of disassembling things, soldering, etc. I'm just saying I prefer to take the least destructive path, just in case I need to retrace my steps.

Also, I might need some parts off the old case. Destroying things could eliminate using them.

[teal burrow]

I finally got a chance to start cutting down the new cases

brought them up to 400 grit

[fallow tulip]

V1 PT2 bumper just came off the printer. Way too fragile and printed in the wrong orientation, but it fits.

Christmas present to myself

[gleaming snow]

ooh looks awesome

[indigo cargo]

Incredible! 😍

[sacred trail]

Niiice

[teal burrow]

200 buttons are in DHL's custody and should arrive in Mountain View on Monday or Tuesday!

[teal burrow]

Buuuuuuuuutton.

[paper flume]

I see you're all buttoned up

[teal burrow]

looks like the dimensional accuracy of the case is not adequate to permit installation of the button, and I'll have to clean that up

guess I need a 4.1mm drill bit and a 2mm drill bit

[paper flume]

doh. reamers?

[teal burrow]

yeah, reamers probably are actually the right option

[teal burrow]

ok $70 worth of drill bits and reamers will come from amazon soon

[paper flume]

whats funny is I just ordered set of hand drills

one that just rotates by hand, and one using twisted length to rotate as I push down

[teal burrow]

huh, well, you know, that's something that should have been obvious in retrospect

it turns out that even if you have a H7 reamer, if you put it in a cordless drill and hold the part in your hand, you’re gonna get a hotdog-hallway fit in the end, not a press fit

[fallow tulip]

Does it work though?

I can mod the case designs to have slightly larger holes in the first place? (but they usually print slightly oval)

Suppose we could ask for the holes to be sized by the printer as post processing them.

[teal burrow]

yeah, having the holes undersized and reaming them out is preferable. my plan after I finish polishing the parts is I'm going to take them to a friend's house, where he has an actual drill press, which should get me much closer to the H7 tolerance than just slamming it in and winging it

though it does remind me that we should probably get in the habit of actually specifying tolerances for fits, especially things that we want to be press fits

I wonder what the tolerance on the buttons is, for instance

I only reamed one hole on one unit after making that mistake, so I won't really finish building them up until I do it the rest of the way

the button does seem to work at least in that one hole, though, and using some retaining compound probably will get the button to happily sit in that hole that I overbored

[fallow tulip]

Do you think the company you found could do non-circular buttons?

I keep coming back to press fit being necessary somewhere. The steel and time steel have press fit collars for their buttons.

[teal burrow]

I dunno, we could ask them! I thought I saw some non-circular buttons on their site at least

beats me how they make them

I don't mind press fits and I actually like them better than most other options. we just have to actually specify tolerance on holes to do it

[fallow tulip]

Agreed. I’d want press fit collars for the buttons regardless.

On plastic prints it’s fine as the material deforms to make the button work well. On metal, yep, tolerances

[gleaming snow]

(so i can find silk-steel more easily)

[fallow tulip]

Red:

Really doesnt go well with the blue sides

There's a whole 5cm of filament in that, makes more waste than it uses. Pack of 5 for £2.50?

[gleaming snow]

figure out some kind of other print that just makes these as a brim LOL

[paper flume]

sls might be better on this

or sla I suppose if have good ppa setup

[versed kelp]

I would love to see a coloured frame on a non coloured watch

[half arrow]

The brim is very clever so that the screen protector edges then become flush with the surface. Plus colors are pretty neat. I didn't get the blue or red Time 2 because I change color preference semi-regularly

[paper flume]

hey @gleaming snow other discussion made me wonder, could you be able to make round that have back removable exactly same as old watches is? ie whole back is a screw

I am unsure due to charging pads in back lol

[gleaming snow]

what? huh? I have no idea haha

like it's probably possible but I bet youd add thickness, and you'd have to figure out how to make the charger work if there's a possibility it isn't screwed to the exact perfect angle

[paper flume]

I guess redirecting it elsewhere would be better but much harder than rectangle ones lol

on charger pads I wonder if it was disk and ring, then wouldnt position not matter?

(internally, outside is unchanged)

[gleaming snow]

i have no experience with this kind of physical or electrical design

[paper flume]

my guess is that it would hav to be fairly good metal to resist pins wear as it spins around on screw/unscrew

[fallow tulip]

Watches with a circular big turning section on the back would have to have the charger port outside of the screwed bit (a bit like the pebble steel).

To make a PTR or pr2 with a removable back would I think be impossible with their internals. They are designed to be front installed, not back installed.

You would be able to make a PTR or pr2 with a removable screw on front, instead of glued. Needs a threaded bezel and case, which does exist on lots of traditional watches.

Or you have a screw-down front, with visible screws

Like this

But the case has to accommodate the screw holes, so is thicker

[paper flume]

I felt it would be too challenging to use existing round watch hardware in whole back screw in type case, but new hardware maybe. lol. I really hope there will be alternatives

front screw in is definitely interesting

[willow island]

Either screws to hold the back on, screws to hold the bezel on, or a threaded bezel would be acceptable. Most important is to be able to open the PTR; and all Pebbles; without ungluing and regluing.

[paper flume]

easiest way for pr2 would be screw front, since rear have charging pads

custom case can have that, or 4 screws

though 4 crews could be rear since its easy

[willow island]

4 screw on the rear would be easier than a threaded bezel. Also, a threaded bezel would require a lot more torque. After 10 years, removing a threaded bezel could be quite a chore.

Furthermore, a threaded bezel would require a change of overall appearance. 4 screws on the back would not change any aesthetics.

[paper flume]

yeah. really screws back is best way, but sometimes its a look and best way isnt always sole requirement

[teal burrow]

removing screws in a sweat-corrosive environment is not great either, I will say this

though at least antiseize exists

[willow island]

The Pebble Classic was eventually updated to have a screw on back. The Pebble Steel has a screw on back. I have both, and both are fine. If I were to work in a corrosive environment, I would remove any watch before work.

[willow island]

I would definitely not open up any watch in a corrosive environment.

[teal burrow]

I mean, even if you clean it, sweat will make dissimilar metals seize together

[willow island]

Presumably, the case and the back would be the same material as has been the case so far. Thread compound was used on the Pebble Steel screws. I would anticipate this being done for all Pebbles with removable backs.

[fallow tulip]

I need to spend some time fixing my screw-based models. Got sidetracked with Emery watchface fixes & PT2 bumpers instead.

So far I’ve targeted 3D printed metals, could shift that to machined cases

[willow island]

Can you embed threaded metal inserts in the 3D printed models?

[fallow tulip]

Yes

I even have some tiny press fit threaded inserts

[willow island]

Trivia Question: What is the difference between a screw and a bolt? No fair searching online for the answer.

[fallow tulip]

I also have a slightly chunky in progress version which turns out is a bit PT2 esque. A plastic internal case which holds the board and screen, which slots into a metal external case.

Thread profile and existence or not of nuts?

I’ve seen pointy ended bolts so it’s not end shape which distinguishes them

Screws cut, bolts don’t??

[willow island]

The shape is not what distinguishes them. Bolts have a nut on the end. Screws die into the work.

Of course, there are screws, such as drywall screws, that aren't designed to have a nut on the end. That said, someone theoretically could make a nut for such a screw, but that someone would probably be a nut.

[somber junco]

So how big does the nut have to be for a boln to count as a screw instead

[willow island]

A nut and bolt fasten parts that go between the bolt head and nut. Get as creative as you like for the size difference between the nut, bolt, and fastened parts.

[somber junco]

Aha so a bolt with only a nut is just a screw

[willow island]

No. A bolt with just a nut are just a couple of threaded fasteners waiting to be used.

[fallow tulip]

So the definition is what they attach together and how they attach them

[willow island]

The point is the intended purpose.

[somber junco]

They can be used as both though

So if it's intended to be used as either, it's neither?

[willow island]

If you want to call an engine block a nut, and a washer between the screw head and the engine block go ahead. Speaking of which, head bolts are actually screws; not bolts.

When the fastener dies into the work, it is a screw. The same fastener holding parts together with a nut on the end is a bolt.

[thorny anvil]

Something weird happens in Spanish (or at least in my regional version of spanish i guess) where the propper name for screws is "tornillos" and for bolts is "pernos", but everyone colloquially calls both "tornillos". However, when wanting to differentiate between both of them, i've heard people call screws "chilillos" and keep calling bolts "tornillos" (which is wrong)

[somber junco]

What is the fastener called when not in use then??

[fallow tulip]

Machine screws mess that bolt/screw definition up

[willow island]

I can only speak for the English language.

Machine screws are screws when they die into the work. When they have nuts on the ends, they become bolts for that application.

[fallow tulip]

Sorting random bolts & screws from each other following an unfortunate incident in my husband’s workshop led to a section of drawers called bolt screws (pointy ended bolts without cutting threads), and a section of machine screws, aka small bolts.

[willow island]

When you buy machine screws, they will be labeled screws because neither the manufacturer nor the seller can anticipate how they will eventually be used.

[willow island]

His workshop was screwed. 🤣
I bet your husband went nuts.

[fallow tulip]

Real distinction though was wood screws from everything else, mostly machinery or jig related

[willow island]

Wood screws have a thread which makes them unsuitable for pairing with nuts. They are designed to only be screws.

[paper flume]

just make solid wood nuts 😉

[fallow tulip]

It’s been done

[willow island]

I've seen a nut and bolt cut on a lathe for demonstrating to students. The thread diameter was about 1" (2.54cm), which would have made for very heavy fasteners if made of metal.

[fallow tulip]

https://likebutter.com.au/pages/kittaparts?srsltid=AfmBOoqHIYlF258rKErwc1macxthDOeQ7c4bLpatR9TcYfDO6D7xQAmo

Very cool CNC machining to make their threaded wood parts

But I’m not an engineer, so perhaps am easily impressed

[willow island]

The threaded wood parts for those shelves are fine for that application. They are only for static loads (shelves; not chairs or barstools). They eliminate rust stains. They reduce the number of parts to make the shelves.

[fallow tulip]

Indeed, very nice design for what they do

[willow island]

Also, such large threads are easier for hand assembly without tools.

[fallow tulip]

So wooden bolt, or wooden screw??

[willow island]

Since they die into the vertical columns, they're screws.

[teal burrow]

LOL

the tariff bill has come for the buttons

they were classified as 9101.21.8010 (watches of metal), not 9111.90.40 (miscellaneous watch parts)

unfortunately, 9101.21.8010 has a tariff per item of $1.61

[paper flume]

ow what a pain. hopefully you can talk with them and fix it

[teal burrow]

there is no way to fix it, but in general, I have come out vastly ahead by playing fast and loose with tariffs

so this is kind of the cost of doing business

[fallow tulip]

ORANGE

Came with the latest stock order of P2 bumpers.

Also… blue

I have successfully made the new watch look like the original plastic prototype

[vestal rover]

...god i like that orange

[paper flume]

orange and blue like bunch of adventurous movies lol

[versed kelp]

yooo, portal watch

[gleaming snow]

nerf watch

[somber junco]

... TRON?

[paper flume]

any adventure movie

[somber junco]

Ah lol I see

[paper flume]

you will never stop seeing it once you know

only few of those is mirginal

[fallow tulip]

It’s like all AI is blue

[sacred trail]

Obsessed

[mossy haven]

I finally got buttons. Before actual P2D delivery, argh...

Unfortunately I broke (trying to press buttons, I guess) top one part, out of two 🥲

But buttons on this one part looked more white than other similar part

[mossy haven]

As if buttons base got detached from side body, in layers

[mossy haven]

I guess button on the white one for stuck, while on the normal one all buttons moving freely

[gleaming snow]

are these flexy buttons, or mechanical buttons?

it may be that they are supposed to snap apart, and once they're installed to the watch, the button floats inside the frame

[mossy haven]

Not sure. Button and this little press thing floats inside it's frame/base, but doesn't leave it

-# until you broke it, that is

It's these buttons, so they're mechanical, yes https://favouritehumandesign.com/product/pebble-2-buttons/

Hm, maybe I wasn't gentle enough to snap buttons, but I didn't bend it either

I'm just trying to understand if it's my fault or if it's some misprint with this one

-# And I can't return this since it's gone through mail forwarding

[fallow tulip]

they are fragile and easy to break before installation. They are much more robust once installed because the watchcase supports them.

Usually they snap between the buttons though, and they should not come apart like that: Going to go with a faulty print. DM or email me your order number and I’ll ship a replacement.

[mossy haven]

Thank you, I will

[teal burrow]

so I think there are a few things going on here

even when I used a drill press to ream the inner holes out to 2.0mm, they were pretty loosey goosey

I think the dimensional accuracy on the SLS is not good

or at least, it is not sufficient

we probably had to undersize that hole to more like 1.85mm to really get this the way we wanted it

but, even more so, I think the 2.0mm feature is not supposed to be the press fit feature

I think the 4.0mm feature is supposed to be the press fit feature

even that was pretty imprecise though

so I think for this batch, the answer is going to be that these buttons will just be held in with retaining compound (loctite 680 maybe?)

[teal burrow]

I think we should learn to use 'tolerances'

[teal burrow]

https://www.fastenal.com/product/details/0151011 this seems like more retaining compound than I need

[fallow tulip]

The 4mm section isn’t really supposed to be the press for part.

Do we need to use a different button design more like the OG and steel?

Not press fit at all, uses a c-clip inside the case

[teal burrow]

I think press fit is going to be a bad strategy for us, yeah

getting button co to reliably make press fit things is going to be hard, and so will be manufacturing press fit tolerances on our side

but that said, retaining compound will solve this problem on the current build

and also will waterproof it!

[fallow tulip]

Will tinker with the model when I have some free time. Press fit would be fine on plastic cases

[fallow tulip]

#hardware message

some instructions on how to refit the board to the screen

[polar sierra]

CNC titanium

[teal burrow]

yeah...

[polar sierra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65rfapjyp1w but with a pebble case

[gleaming snow]

i need them to CNC a death orb

[teal burrow]

it is on my list to consider doing DFM for this for CNC

[cold hamlet]

A titanium case with screwed cover will be a lot more water tight and easier to handle than press fitted plastics😀

[teal burrow]

I hear the sound of someone who wants to machine his own alloy of titanium!

[cold hamlet]

we are still looking for a use case for our free cutting titanium💩

[polar sierra]

Is that titanium that can be cut, or titanium for cutting?

[cold hamlet]

It just a titanium alloy that is easy to machine, like the titanium you see on apple watch

[paper flume]

it does sound cool. if I had cnc machine I would try some

Ti is pretty bastard of a metal to cut

worse than stainless steel which work hardens as soon as you start drafting part design for it

[fallow tulip]

So I had a bit of a mad idea, and have half worked through it. to make a metal case easier to machine, how about creating a plastic interior case to hold the interior of the P2 (a midframe), and then drop that frame into a metal case? Thing I'm stuck on is how to make the buttons work. Think would need to insert the plastic inner case into the outer case before fitting the buttons, then fit the interior.

[teal burrow]

I'm not sure that the existing metal case design is even all that bad to machine, we'd just have to think it through some

the undercuts are not impossible but we just need to look carefully at them

[polar sierra]

I don't think I like any part that requires the word 'crevice'
SendCutSend

If you're outsourcing manufacturing, the worst that could happen is they no-quote it

Also I'm sure shallow undercuts can be cut

[teal burrow]

well, the worst that happens it that they quote it and do not meet your tolerances and you pay for it anyway

(or that they quote you $29384023948329, I suppose)

ideally you want to work with a manufacturing partner who looks at CAD and will iterate with you

[cold hamlet]

undercut is ok with special tool. titanium case is not very expensive. also there is no point of design a new case for every new pebble. a metal case with screw can be reusable, we can fit a plastic interior to accommodate the pcb differences as astosia suggested.

most importantly, we should offer help to core and participate in the design of the hardware😀

I am planning to design a pebble compatible device based on the open source 黄山派, more info is here:

[teal burrow]

bluh 🙁

I tried to do some high voltage titanium colors

what I got was... other weird oxides

I think my paintbrush plated things strangely

[teal burrow]

yeah I think this has plated a substance referred to as Weird Shit on there

it seems that I need a bottle of Multi-Etch

in for a penny, in for a pound, I guess

[cold hamlet]

titanium oxidation coloring need a special solution

[teal burrow]

yeah, I had good results with low voltage colors previously

I tried to do a 65V pink, and 1) the metal on my paintbrush plated itself onto the watch, and 2) the holes that I reamed out seemed to have some tool steel plated on them, which made it impossible to anodize around those corners

I ordered a jug of multi-etch (which will clean up the failed anodization and will also clean out the tool steel), and I ordered some TSP instead of sodium bicarbonate to use as an anodization solution. and I will solve this next time with a Q-tip held with titanium wire instead of a paintbrush that has some kind of chrome ferrule

I guess I get to try again next week

also next time I guess I will use vinyl to mask rather than painter's tape. cutting that painter's tape was awful

[polar sierra]

I believe Theodore Gray did titanium oxidization in his book with pepsi? I might have misremembered though

[teal burrow]

yeah, low voltage colors you can get away with nearly anything it seems

[dire dragon]

mhh pepsi flavored pebble 🤤

[teal burrow]

here was an experiment in between the unsuccessful HV ano and stripping the part back down again

I originally went in with some 320 grit to try to groove a brushed texture on it, then took a swing at anodizing the part. it did not turn out the way I wanted, so I did a further experiment to get a bit of polishing compound to see if I could pull the ano off the tops of the grooves but not the insides

it basically worked, though obviously I did not polish it evenly. it gave a cool pastel finish that varied anisotropically by what angle you looked at it

[lone laurel]

Beautiful!

[fallow tulip]

Slightly bonkers idea for a dual material P2 Steel

[paper flume]

interesting concept. allows for many colors tho

[teal burrow]

Updated the thread: https://forum.rebble.io/t/my-neighbor-etchant-lab-or-titanium-pebbles/627/4

[teal burrow]

uncle jeff says my TSP is coming a day early, so I might get to actually etch and ano tonight

[paper flume]

I see it was approved by CQA

[teal burrow]

Mina is such a sweetie

[paper flume]

Cat Quality Assurance 😉 Mina have such important job

[teal burrow]

ok, tomorrow I'll actually take a crack at a HV ano on one of the other cases (not the brushed one). here's, roughly, my plan. this is for the non-masked version of this. the masked version I'll figure out after I get at least one good non-masked run.

1. Part in the ultrasonic with some simple green and TSP.
2. Mix up a tupperware with some TSP, a dash of dish soap, and distilled water.
3. Tie a Ti wire to the part.
4. Find another piece of Ti as a cathode (I think I have some lying around). Tie a Ti wire to that.
5. Gloves on, PPE on.
6. Mix up a tupperware with some multi-etch.
7. Part for ano, Ti wire, cathode get hosed down with Brakleen.
8. Part for ano goes into multi-etch for 3 minutes (room temperature, so it's slow).
9. Remove from bath. Remove multi-etch with isopropanol from a rinse bottle.
10. Part for ano, cathode into ano bath. Change gloves to avoid tracking etchant. Carry it up to the ano power supply (preconfigured).
11. Cross fingers; apply ano using normal means (probably put a 55V base coat on it, then fade up to as high as I can go -- I think my setup maxes out at 84V).
12. Remove, rinse with isopropanol, use Loctite 680 to install sliding-fit button assemblies.

[teal burrow]

OK I am celebrating the announcement of Board nominations by anodizing some pebbles today

I have strapped a gopro onto my chest

[dire dragon]

ooh are you recording the process? 👀

[teal burrow]

yeah, I'm gonna see what I can do

I don't know how it's going to go, and I expect there are going to be some novice mistakes

but I've been filling in that thread so it seems like it could be fun

I expect comments on my workplace safety and etchant handling technique, and I expect to look at it in a year or so and go 'WTF'

I guess I should force myself to eat lunch first before I get my hands dirty and uninterruptible, given that I had a breakfast of methylphenidate and coffee and if I put gloves on then I might never eat until 10pm.

[teal burrow]

wow they are not kidding about this multi-etch stuff being slow at room temperature

[paper flume]

I wonder if you could make color gradient TI by attaching wire to case and have it slllowly reel it outsid basin as it adonizes

I would test it with just square tab for testing but yeah

[teal burrow]

yup I have successfully done that in the past

I think that there is a contaminant issue on this

[paper flume]

nice

[teal burrow]

there are granular inclusions that etching cannot take down

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5rdeUCd97e367qfJ7 I think these are inclusions of other metals at sintering, not inclusions from my polishing process

[paper flume]

interesting. so its peppered thoughout the case, those non-ti

[teal burrow]

I think so

[teal burrow]

@cold hamlet do you have opinions as to whether I caused this from polishing, or whether this pitting is indicative of a metal inclusion from the factory?

[teal burrow]

@fallow tulip I’m going to do my best to do something with these watches and then I’m just gonna send you three of them so that we can make any changes needed for the next rev - which I think I’ll try on Michigan man’s process. Do you want me to glue in the buttons or leave the buttons unglued? Do you want me to do anything in particular with surface finish on them for prototype?

[teal burrow]

Matte blue with raw spots shining defects… “starry night”. I guess I’ll build it up the rest of the way once the button retaining compound cures.

[paper flume]

while that looks cool, yeah that flaw sucks

I wonder if those spots would rust

[teal burrow]

they will not

that particular flaw is my fault for wire wheeling it I think

[paper flume]

hmm I recall something about bronzing something by wire wheeling and heat

[cold hamlet]

It might be caused by micro pores or impurity introduced during 3D printing. I have not seen this on our var remelted material before.

[teal burrow]

button retaining compound worked out at least

I'm going to try one or two other anodizing methods shortly but I think these samples might just not take ano.

but the good news is that I think I have a good method to make a brushed finish

[teal burrow]

update: I've also bought some aliexpress diamond paste

[teal burrow]

this asterix seems to have, shockingly, survived surgery

[versed kelp]

they did surgery on a gaul

[teal burrow]

I forgot to put the mic gasket in but at least I didn't glue the back on yet

[fallow tulip]

Looks good

[teal burrow]

installed the gasket, the bluetooth does not seem to be deaf

[hollow tree]

that's so cool

[polar sierra]

Does it have a more limited range?

I wonder if the signal being weaker would make it draw more battery

[teal burrow]

I assume it will have a slightly more limited range, and I assume the transmit power will be somewhat higher, but radio transmit power is not a major part of asterix power consumption anyway usually

I should compare against a non fucked with one for BLE performance

[teal burrow]

@fallow tulip https://actionbox.ca/products/injekto-3

Joshua no. JOSHUA YES

[fallow tulip]

Now that looks like fun

[teal burrow]

I know what I want to get as my first accessory after I get a mill

[versed kelp]

woah

oh I want that

[balmy lance]

It’s only been… three months? Time for take 2!

Colors are still technically incorrect but hey, at least it’s intact

[fallow tulip]

Do the buttons work?

[balmy lance]

As is it doesn’t seem they move much, theory is we need to dissolve supports inside the button internals so that will be tested later

Not actually installed on a watch yet

[fallow tulip]

I generally free up the buttons using hot soapy water

To wash out the supports inside the buttons

[civic moon]

@fallow tulip I was so happy to see you still at it when the C2D came out. I bought some buttons way back in the day and I ended up testing some flexible ones for you.

I definitely want a new case for the P2 HR. I don't have an OG Pebble to get buttons from, can I print them? I believe I saw an old file on thingiverse.

I feel like the battery replacement I got some years ago was too big. Any chance the new cases you have for the P2 are slightly bigger? Hahaha.

[fallow tulip]

If you want a case which doesn’t need og buttons then you’re welcome to test out one of the ones I have already printed which you can see on this thread.

And weirdly yes they are slightly bigger inside as I’ve had to cater for the materials difference from injection molded to 3d printed.

[civic moon]

Oh! My brain is fried from the work week. I thought the discussion in the thread had moved to a different..bah, I need a vacation.

I'd be honored to try one. DM me details on how to pay?

BTW the P2 is still rocking the flexible printed buttons. Back when I ordered them you were shipping buttons in small, jewelry boxes. I totally snapped the clear/white buttons while handling them. You offered to replace them, but I used those experimental flex buttons and never had a need for a replacement.

[pine lagoon]

@fallow tulip moving here to keep the general chat less cluttered. Have you tried any plastic injection molding or CNC services? I would be interested in something like that and spending a bit more money for something I hope to last long term. Also, is it easy to find the OG buttons or do the buttons on the site fit this case?

[fallow tulip]

The buttons on the site fit the original case and don’t need you to swap the whole case. They just glue on. 1/10 difficulty

The replacement case involves the fun of getting the screen out. 8/10 difficulty although there is a jig linked on this thread

And yes, been trying various methods. Here’s 2 Titanium cases and two resin printed ones.

[paper flume]

kinda wish core would sell non-cased watches stuff

[fallow tulip]

Joshua has some test buttons in the US at the moment. I should nudge him to send me some, and then send out a few cases for people to test with their hardware

I have a UK supplier of the chronograph (round) buttons you see in those photos, but they are... £7 each

so £28 just in buttons for the watch

[versed kelp]

do you know of any crown suppliers maybe? I need a few with a M0.9 thread on them, which is sadly unusual

[fallow tulip]

I get most of my watch related stuff from here: https://www.cousinsuk.com

[versed kelp]

thank you, that's really useful

[fallow tulip]

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/filter/watch-crown-super-search

[ionic lance]

If I send my pebble 2 SE to someone could they fix it for me.Willing to pay.the buttons have fallen off and the screen cracked too

[fallow tulip]

An update on cases. Received a batch of buttons from Joshua and have just installed them in latest resin model for my test P2Duo.

Buttons are great. 🙂

It is very yellow but it was the cheapest high resolution print I could order

It’s like it already has UV damage!

[fallow tulip]

Depends on where you are in the world. Used items with lipo batteries in are a pain to ship (with many services not allowing airmail)

[paper flume]

thats cool. yellowish is usually countered with tiny bit of blue dye, but not if theyre super cheap

I kinda like the color lol

[fallow tulip]

With a bright yellow strap it’d be quite swatch watch

[sacred trail]

I'm a big fan of a taller/chonkier button (the PT2 buttons are divine), but from that video it looks like those would be satisfying to press!

I think I'm remembering correctly that these were chosen because they were either cheap or easy to obtain (or both)

[fallow tulip]

These are the batch of bespoke buttons which Joshua ordered from China

They are less tall than the off the shelf ones and a lot cheaper

The yellow case is heavily based on the PT2 shape, but agree with Joshua that the buttons need to follow the curve (means the centre button would need to be taller), or I need to flatten out the sides (or get flat buttons made)

[sacred trail]

I should say that I am probably using "tall" wrong - more meaning instead of little round buttons, I love that most pebbles have like, flat rectangular buttons. Lotta surface area for a satisfying press ✨

Rather than tall meaning how much they jut out (which is probably a more appropriate meaning)

[teal burrow]

the buttons are broadly quite pleasing in feel. when glued in with loctite they take a handful of cycles before they loosen up

[sullen shore]

Transparent tech is so pretty

[fallow tulip]

Liking the see through look on this. Having worn it for a day I will be changing the design though, but I think I’ll make a matching bumper

[paper flume]

lol would be interesting to have led light behind it

ring of light, kinda like casino

[fallow tulip]

been having fun today. got a new design. Thoughts?

[versed kelp]

that's really cool

[fallow tulip]

going to home-print one of these and see if I like it in person. I want to round the sides & top, but that didn't work too well with the buttons all being the same depth

maybe make the whole thing fatter to cover the buttons a bit more

[teal burrow]

that looks neat. the recessed bits, in metal at least, would be an absolute bitch and a half to get any specific surface finish on

[sacred trail]

Sexy!

The recessed bits might also get dirty a bit more easily - but still very very cool!

[fallow tulip]

The recess is 0.5mm, so not very deep. Agree though. Difficult to polish!

[sacred trail]

I like that (I think?) the screen is flush with the case

[fallow tulip]

It is yes

Made the case a bit fatter to cover the buttons a bit more

[paper flume]

nice indeed

[teal burrow]

ooh I want this in anodized black aluminum

[sacred trail]

Super pretty!

[fallow tulip]

I’ve ordered a couple

[teal burrow]

what material?

[fallow tulip]

Resin in white and black. Not sure what I think about the shape. If I like them I’ll put the metal interior cutout on the model

[teal burrow]

the symmetrical shape on the button surround is kind of nice

I think you might need a little more wall thickness on it for DFM

[fallow tulip]

Highly likely yes, but that’s a pretty simple mod

[teal burrow]

how have the buttons been in terms of press fit on other things?

[fallow tulip]

Perfect fit in resin

[snow steeple]

I would love to be able to buy something like this to drop my P2D guts in to

[teal burrow]

I kind of wonder how the Nestworks machine's toolpathing would do on this

this looks achievable with CNC

[sacred trail]

I think I'd be too scared to attempt it, but it still would be amazing to see a PT2 in the equivalent of an unreleased PT2 body

flat screen and no HR bump would be like... damb

[fallow tulip]

It would, and if my PT2 needs opening, I might try it one day.

In the meantime… purple resin

Lugs are a bit tight to the body on this one, but otherwise I really like it

[paper flume]

pretty close to atomic purple color lol

a bit lighter and bit more transparent and it would be

[paper flume]

purple isnt my style but it does look cool

atomic purple

n64

[sacred trail]

Stealthy purple!

[fallow tulip]

The yellow translucent one looks good in the dark too

[paper flume]

thats so cool

wonder if theres way to spread light all way around

[versed kelp]

OH. MY. GOD.

that is beautiful

[fallow tulip]

thank you. needs a tweak, but this one is going in the I'm going to stock these pile

(along with the silk shaped one Joshua likes, and the OG Steel shaped one)

now just need to decide what plastic materials to make them in

[versed kelp]

transparent purple will always get my vote

[sullen shore]

Hear me out, what about glow in the dark

[paper flume]

I wonder how those colors react to uv light

[polar sierra]

This looks so much cooler than Eric's transparent PT2

[teal burrow]

hm, is there a better adhesive than b7000 for affixing the backs onto watches

mine seems to loosen over the course of a few months

bleh I wish we had screws for this

[versed kelp]

that usually happens to me if the device isn't under enough pressure for long enough after gluing

that glue requires those 24-48 hours it says on the tube

[teal burrow]

I am the least patient human being on earth so this tracks as being the problem

in any event, I need to open this one anyway and try a shorter screw on the BLE antenna clamp

[paper flume]

wonder if its possible to make screw case

expecially since you has to use the back again, which doesnt have any screw stuff

[teal burrow]

For my first new tool purchase for my new house, I have gotten the cutest little baby grabby throwy.

A little 1/3hp 6" bench grinder! And buffing wheel for it.

[paper flume]

nice

[teal burrow]

perfect, I have just tested the new bench grinder and I have successfully absolutely ruined the edge on my knife

[paper flume]

fun lol. I tried to sharpen my knife on leather with green stuff on it

but apparently it needs some more strong stuff, I will have to find my diamond block

[teal burrow]

afaict this adhesive just does not seem to bond all that well to Ti. it seemed still happily stuck to the plastic, just the Ti was not good. but I will keep it clamped for a full 24h

[versed kelp]

that would make sense

[fallow tulip]

Have you tried Sugru?

Or ask Core what they use on the new Duo because that glue is stronger than the case!