ARCHER MEGATHREAD: TALK ABOUT ARCHERS HERE!

[vocal shell]

that lets you fit in the jump turnarounds to mitigate their chase mechanic too

I'd still do this stuff if there weren't any archers because it's just fun. I'd probably do it more because I'd be able to play raid boss for spawn waves without being near guaranteed to get two shot by something that I can't do anything about.

[harsh lake]

You can do stuff regardless of any class.

But you guys seem too heated on getting rid of a class that players already have a hard time playing to just benefit yourself to do something you can already do with the class being present

[sharp patio]

big swords being able to instantlly bonk archers is crazy

[vocal shell]

it's because nobody really likes the fun police. I still say we just should have a no archer optional queue and see how the hypocrites self-sort instead of lying about their opinions in discord.

I've had great fights anti-climaxed by archers and been on the other end of that too and every time often especially if it's to my benefit I just feel like I got robbed.

[harsh lake]

Fun Police?

[vocal shell]

when someone is having a great fight with me it stops being about winning or losing at some point and we're just enjoying the game and whoever dies dies

[sharp patio]

but it's a team game

go to duels bruv

[harsh lake]

What does archers have to do with that?

[vocal shell]

the fact that they simply ignore defensive mechanics and kill one or both of us, and that melee players getting involved in that can turn it into a really fun Xv1 or 1vX instead of simply killing a participant outright

[harsh lake]

So they ignore shields.

So they cant be apart of a fight cause you said so

[vocal shell]

shields aren't a fair answer given that only two non-archer subclasses have access to them and you're giving up most of the fun weapons in this game defined by its fun melee combat and interactions if you're simply always holding a shield

[harsh lake]

They cant shoot into a 1 v x because you want to have " fun "

That is the most dumb shit excuse to be rid of a class lol

[vocal shell]

Yes. I simply want to play without archers, and the MFL has proven that it's a much more fun environment without them and that the melee combat doesn't warp significantly without them.

The entire melee combat system was balanced quite obviously in the total absence of archer as a class, and other than shields every mechanic to interact with archer was added after the fact.

[harsh lake]

No MFL actually has not proven that at all.

[vocal shell]

how has it not? Everyone I've spoken to has essentially just experienced it as a breath of fresh air and has had a great time playing chiv but with skilled players and without randomly dying to anything but their skill issues(when the servers are in good condition)

[rocky fern]

https://tenor.com/view/chaereali-dog-dog-running-around-the-room-crazy-fast-dog-running-around-fast-gif-25824983

[vocal shell]

for the most part in the MFL people even refrain from throwing weapons even if it's not explicitly banned and that has helped the atmosphere too

[tiny vessel]

Still wondering if the archer complainers would sing a different tune if they've firsthand experience with Warband Multiplayer. I know Bannerlord's more recent, but archer spam fests are much less common in that game, whereas archer spam fest is Warband MP in its natural state

[vocal shell]

it's not like this is my first game where something isn't explicitly overpowered but has an obvious negative and oppressive effect(sniper in tf2) which just ceases to exist without imbalancing the game when that class isn't present

[harsh lake]

Did you ask if they agreed on removal cause they will disagree with you on that. Just a breath of fresh air is understandable answer but removal then your incorrect as ive spoken too a lot of these guys and they say archers are actually important in Chiv 2 with being a team based game

They have no complaints on the matter

[vocal shell]

I think this game would be better if archers were never added to begin with, but I only actually ask for a no archer optional queue environment and to allow people to self-sort accordingly and see what happens.

[harsh lake]

Again you think

But again your only thinking of yourself

[vocal shell]

It's trivial from a technical standpoint compared to every single other temporary queue torn banner has ever set up to offer a no archer temporary queue.

It's obvious they're just afraid of what the results of having one would mean for the game.

[tiny vessel]

Archer removal would make some weapons better than they would be in standard play, and people would pick those and nothing else because there isn't an unblockable damage source to punish their otherwise problematic pick

[vocal shell]

I'd even be interested in trying a no engineer temp queue, but that's just normal pub TO anyway

[vocal shell]

the weapons that you think are constrained by archer are just so good that they're dominant in any environment regardless(halberd, spear) or aren't actually the best option in their category(highland sword)

greatsword and messer are obviously better as general teamfighting weapons even if in a world where the server quality was better the highland sword has incredible potential for utilizing active parry

it'd be a minority choice because you're not going to benefit from having a team of 32 highland swords

unlike halberd where you win by having a team of 24 halberd and 8 spears and how 24 halberds and 8 spears wins today too

might be more like 20 halberds and 12 spears, not entirely sure on the ratio

[harsh lake]

For them to even have volley mode up was a waste of time when that time could of been more of actually fixing real issues with the game.

[vocal shell]

but majority halberds should be better than majority spears in theory

[vocal shell]

thankfully archer limit is a single line config change and could be set to 0 as a single server variable.
As I said as well, I'd even be interested in seeing how the game changes if specific classes were disabled. It's just that engineer wouldn't be a good target even though it's the only other class with a server variable because we already see enough 0 engineer lobbies. I think guardian would be an interesting disable or Officer.

Poleman would be a particularly interesting disable

[tiny vessel]

But yeah, I played a melee game that was "play the melee game like a late 2000s cover shooter or die". You haven't, and it shows.

[harsh lake]

But again waste of time when there are more concerning issues then people getting upset over a class that is hard to play as is.

[vocal shell]

it's not though? I was queueing with a few guys from 300 a while ago and since I hadn't played archer in a month or two I hopped on longbow for a game and topscored and topfragged the lobby on longbow still. I don't really see what's so hard about archer.

[tiny vessel]

I think from a team play standpoint, I don't think the archer should be buffed or nerfed in their current position, lest they'd either be useless or broken

though I still think throwing axes need an anti-archer multiplier to enable one-hit headshots in a Skirmisher v bowman context

[harsh lake]

Okay ill use your argument then. Were there good players on or a bunch of noobs in the game. Also remember too your skill floor is higher then majority of the players in the game correct?

[vocal shell]

There were a few non-pushover players on the other team. It wasn't a completely trivial lobby, but I'd have probably dropped 60+ kills on melee and only performed like 80-85% of that on archer because it's just not as good of a class for absolute carnage output.

[vocal shell]

that's the archer problem. It's not possible to put good numbers on something which exists outside of the normal combat system, so they're either broken or seem to be undertuned, and nobody really has a good suggestion to fix it other than allowing players to optionally opt out of playing with the class.

really it's the sniper problem in general in every game with a class that exists outside of the normal combat range, and it's also the shotgun problem where some classes are too effective in a particular and limited range which lets them situationally gamebreak

[harsh lake]

Would you agree that really highly skill comp player can take a weapon that is considered garbage to the average player base and make it seem an op weapon?

[vocal shell]

I got a 40 kill game with fist and no offhand and my first 100 kill game was with the quarterstaff.

[harsh lake]

So you agree right?

[vocal shell]

yes, although the longbow is a little bit different because I was using it specifically because it's the "inferior and worse archer weapon" to somewhat compensate for that diff

it also has the feel closest to tf2's huntsman

[harsh lake]

So wouldnt you agree that taking a highly skilled players score on weapons to be a bad idea to " Balance " Weapons.

[vocal shell]

sort of. It's high skill play which resulted in highlighting the issues with stab-through, and they're addressing that because it's a high skill decision which negatively impacts all levels of play.

what makes archer fundamentally different from doing unreadable forced hits?

[harsh lake]

Unreadable force hits or just eliminating them from the game as your stating.

[vocal shell]

stab-through has significant weapon rebalance implications for halberd and 2h spear's place in the game because one of these two weapons is much much better at stabbing around instead of through teammates, for example, which is a direct example of high skill play being balanced for in a manner which better differentiates niches in the game and makes the game itself a more diverse combat environment instead of just shutting things down

by removing unreadable forced hits they improve the game and the weapon balance

[harsh lake]

Cause once again we will go back too if arrows and bolts were readable then what would their use be to the game if you can easily parry them just like a throwable. Mind as well go javlin with better health and a shield.

[vocal shell]

it sounds like they're a bad mechanic then

[harsh lake]

I got one even better for you then Sunder. Find me a medieval Multiplayer game that either removed archers from their game or made it to where they were so readable they can just be blocked by anything.

[vocal shell]

you realize that's what Mobius, currently in development, is doing right now? that game isn't going to have archers at all.
Mordhau's competitive is mostly small team skirmish and in that environment archers were readable enough that for the most part they were a poor choice and throwing was a better option to get damage through due to the relative superiority of throw animations in that game.

we've also excluded archers from chiv 2 comp only partially because of the controller shit

LTS at least will never have archers for fairily obvious reasons with how the LTS maps are arranged

archery is basically just used as a gateway mechanic to con people into accidentally playing the melee portion and liking it. It happened to me too because I literally installed this game to make people miserable by playing archer, succeeded, got bored out of my mind, and then found out that playing the game is a lot more fun.

I would've just uninstalled this game before level 40 and never looked back if I didn't end up playing the real game by accident a few times and had a taste of what the fun in the game was

that was when I was still having to f1 often to check the default binds because I didn't even know my buttons

the melee combat captured me even in that state

I had also forgotten the tutorial mechanics because I had just spent 20+ levels playing archer

[harsh lake]

You sure they making a medieval game like chiv 2 with no archers. Mordhau archery is the same as chiv 2 but in the worst position for new players to play archer as they can 1 shot each other which streamers and youtubers shown constantly. From what i seen/heard the only reason chiv 2 comp removed archers is because of the crossbow jump state and thats it. You and a few others are the only ones dead set on saying archery is a mistake to this game that needs to be removed.

That is why Torn Banner has never or will ever remove archers from the game lol.

[harsh lake]

They will however nerf them when is deemed necessary which they have constantly as they needed it.

[vocal shell]

from the mobius discord, off topic channel

[harsh lake]

If its only 5 v 5 then i can see thats the main reason for not having ranged classes

If it was an actual game like Mordhau or Chiv 2 then not having a lot of immersion in the game would be a terrible idea.

[vocal shell]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1488310/allnews/ there's also zombo talking about how archery is literally just meant as a mechanic for people incapable of participating in melee combat in public on the steam announcements for Renown

"The goal of archery in Renown is to be a useful supplement to melee combat without becoming the dominant form of combat. We do not want the game to devolve into a shooter with every man bringing a projectile weapon to the fight, the focus of this game is melee combat first and foremost. That being said, Archery is meant to be a playstyle that allows people who are newer and less experienced at melee combat to be able to be useful in PvP without as much effort."

he says it more nicely than that, but the meaning isn't any different

it's fairly obvious that the focus of these games is on the core systems defining a melee slasher, and that archery is at best peripheral. From the standpoint of pure game balance and design we wouldn't lose anything if archery didn't exist, but from a game "success" standpoint they can't afford not to have archery as a funnel for the players who don't understand the appeal of these games.

That's why archery should only ever not be present as an optional environment/queue

and you shouldn't be labeling the other queue an "archery queue", it's "default" because that's how the funnel has to work

people need to specifically have to opt into a "no archer" queue, and it needs to be painted from a perception standpoint as "not the default queue"

[harsh lake]

Well thats funny cause archers arent dominate in chiv 2 so i dont see why this would be relevant unless we talked about Bannerlord cause then yes that would make sense since Bannerlord goes off of realism a bit which means archers dominated fields of battle. So regardless this still proves my point of archers being essential to a massive battle game that gives them that immersion. If they agreed like you then they wouldnt have it

IF anything renown is gonna be worse then chiv 2 when it comes to archery

[vocal shell]

I've been playing chiv with zombo for a while. From a pure balance/game design standpoint he essentially agrees, but from a practicality and "we need players" standpoint the reality of the situation is essentially what I described.

Archery is necessary from a perception standpoint to create a player funnel for the genre and to offer inroads as a step toward understanding the genre and its true appeal, and I won't deny that because it worked on me to the point where as I said I essentially went in expecting this game to be a short burn and quit forever for me and then I'm here now.

Zombo has also said as much about archery in renown, that it's stronger in the early tiers relative to chiv 2's archery, but falls off as people get fully stacked.

That's when the siege weapons and such are supposed to come in so you can have the "archer players" be the base-buster player who also doesn't have to be part of the normal combat as much

at a certain point immersion is no longer what is keeping players in the game, and it was never what brought me in in the first place at least lol

zombo and paragus were the reasons I ever ran into chiv in the first place

[harsh lake]

I dont know if your reading what your posting but from what i gathered reading this, It sounds like they putting a lot of effort in to do either the following. 1: Make archers not be part of what you keep saying " Core Mechanic " of the game and be even a worse living nightmare in that game then it is in this game for you. Or 2: They make archers completely useless to where you can block their arrows with any weapon to the point it discourages people to even play the class as there is no point to them if you cant do anything. Like i dont think you understand about what Medieval times were but the only middle ground that there was between archers and melee soldiers were the shields. Your not gonna be able to play your 2 handed weapons without being pelted to death.

[vocal shell]

It really comes down to that this is a game, and there's no reason we don't have en environment where we can opt out of that and focus on the "core mechanics" of the game.

Archer already isn't part of the core mechanics in chivalry 2. It just exists and hits people.

I don't give a single fuck about what medieval times were. We're playing a game that thinks it's a movie.

[halcyon steeple]

We are so back

[harsh lake]

Chivalry 2 is a multiplayer first person slasher inspired by epic medieval movie battles. Players are thrust into the action of every iconic moment of the era - from clashing swords, to storms of flaming arrows, to sprawling castle sieges and more.

"Medieval Movie Battles " lol that is what they were aiming for lol

Meaning your playing they wrong game if you dont want what they are offering lol

I shouldnt say offer but have and are willing to continue on cause that is what the majority of the player base enjoys.

[vocal shell]

I want what they're offering. Chivalry 2 has the best melee teamfighting of any melee game and it's not even close. I don't want the archer portion of what they're offering, and there's a server variable to turn that off. I'm not allowed to turn that off myself, so the only way to turn that off is if torn banner makes a queue where that's turned off for me.

There are enough people who dislike archer that it'd be an interesting experimental queue, and I don't doubt it'll at least see more play than volley

idk that they could justify it being perpetually up, but that's why we should have private servers

[harsh lake]

Well either Unchained or TB releases their private servers you can happily turn it off.

[vocal shell]

then we can justify it ourselves in our given region based on the playerbase of the region

[harsh lake]

I wouldnt expect that for awhile though as Unchained hasnt worked on that yet and TB aint giving us that ability when they do come out with it.

[vocal shell]

Unchained doesn't have to work on it. They're basing their server off of the listen server built into the chiv 2 client which means they already have class limit and tickrate server variables inherited from the listen server configuration

the listen server was turned off under normal circumstances at some point in alpha based on what zombo mentioned in vc

so the only "listen server" hosting you can normally do on the in-game client is the "offline mode"

[harsh lake]

Nvm then lol

Only thing i got too wittness was the insane speed, giant slayer, and crazy bots they had to offer at the moment

[vocal shell]

apparently EPL was running a server with 100+ playerbots at 200 tick as well, however idk how well that'd perform as an actual server because playerbots can't simulate the network traffic that'd be causing for the host.

it seems like the server might scale quite well when it's not being overprovisioned like the chiv 2 servers hosts are being right now

[harsh lake]

Player bots is ez to keep in a server but for a player traffic that high the game couldnt handle lol

[vocal shell]

playerbots being able to be handled has good implications as to the cpu-bounding, but it doesn't necessarily mean the tickrate isn't network-bound yeah

that's something that'll be a lot easier to test once we have headless linux servers as well since that's the breakthrough point which will make most deployment tools easy to use with the server even if it isn't yet containerized

my guess is 120 tick or maybe even higher is reasonably achievable with a good quality NIC, but only if you have 1 NIC to 1 server

and I'm not sure as to scale there, maybe only duel server size or 40p

[harsh lake]

I feel thats just the major issue with TB is their servers are just absolute garbage and if they just get better ones then the game would run smoother while also being able to fix smaller issues of the game.

[vocal shell]

you've played right after matchmaking goes back up after it comes down right? The servers usually feel really good for one map before they're overprovisioned again

the servers don't seem to be actually garbage so much as they're overprovisioning and thus demanding resources the servers don't have

[harsh lake]

I know 3 major differences i see every time i play the game. Search Mode TO is more stable then the stand alone TO servers. TO servers regardless have terrible FPS drops in the game and FFA/Duel servers are the only game modes that run smoothly

Even LTS and TDM modes have their fair share of bad FPS drops

LTS doesnt get them as long as its under a certain number of players

[minor ore]

"but archers don't top score anyways"

[tiny vessel]

I still wonder if Sun God and Sunder would sing a different tune about archers if they spent a few Sundays on Warband's multiplayer

And only played infantry and cavalry.

[minor ore]

oops meant to highlight the archer, AnAverageBoi is the archer. Nothing against AverageBoi im just sayin

[steel osprey]

This place blew up

[vocal shell]

I'd argue that sniper in tf2 is worse than chiv 2's archer. It doesn't change my opinion on the fundamental design principles associated with the class

[tiny vessel]

Warband and Bannerlord are probably better comparison points considering that M&B and Chivalry exist in the same genre

[vocal shell]

nothing changes the entire design principle of "oppressive damage which constrains gameplay area with minimal counterplay from outside of the normal combat range"

you could even say archer is just in the wrong genre

[minor ore]

I'd argue that they are not in the same genre of game.

[tiny vessel]

M&B MP is mostly Team Deathmatch with a melee focus. Problem is that Mount&Blade doesn't have class limits, so the best way to play the melee game is to play it like a late 2000s cover shooter

While also occasionally picking off the players foolish enough to spawn as an infantry or horseman, cuz they're just feeding kills to the enemy team

Said spammage of archers in M&B is why I'm here now, and why I struggle to take Chiv2 archer complaints seriously

[harsh lake]

Clearly you dont read lol

but thats fine Sunder can fill you in

[minor ore]

read

[harsh lake]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-emperor-congratulations-done-well-palpatine-gif-4953398

[hybrid fjord]

Archers win again

[harsh lake]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-han-solo-shrug-what-can-i-say-badass-gif-17527781

[tiny vessel]

In today's episode of "shit that Taleworlds fans will defend to their last breath"

In all seriousness tho, has this ever happened in Chiv2? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrwnmt4jdA

Cuz I don't think I've ever been .50 cal'd in Chiv2 when playing as a shield class

[livid cave]

Hwid ban archers, thank you

[sturdy cave]

I love getting violently impaled by an archer~

[vapid pawn]

Least favorite subclass

Skirmisher

The other archer classes are simply better due to javelins being blockable

[vast fable]

Skirmisher desperately needs a rework yeah. They kind of blow at the moment.

[tiny vessel]

Should Skirmisher even been an archer subclass in the first place?

[hybrid fjord]

No

[tiny vessel]

IMO, I think they should've made the Javelin chuckers a Vanguard

[hybrid fjord]

Said the same thing honestly

[solemn thorn]

skirmisher more like low health ambusher

give the people their sling

[sharp patio]

if they made it a katars-esque weapon it would work I think

what if you just couldn't block at all with it
only counters

[jolly python]

https://tenor.com/view/donald-trump-poorly-educated-speech-acceptance-gif-12226220

[jolly python]

https://tenor.com/view/donald-trump-poorly-educated-speech-acceptance-gif-12226220

Average throwing axe haterz know nothing of the true gameplay loop

[solemn thorn]

throwing axes are truly god's gift to man

[fresh jetty]

I kinda like archers. I mean I do hate them but i also see that they switch up the game a lot. They are a separate element from the endless melee Engagements and I think they ultimately are a valuable aspect of the game, annoying as they are.

[sharp patio]

good, now take this crossbow bolt to your face

[tiny vessel]

I used to be a fan of it until I realized that I can't one-hit dome archers with it even though they can one-hit dome me. Ended up gravitating towards crossbows

[hybrid fjord]

I have an easier time doming people with bow than crossbow

[tiny vessel]

Didn't wanna put up with the Stamina drain, and 1h Axe instead of hatchet is 👌

[vast fable]

Excited for the new crossbow

[hybrid fjord]

I generally prefer light crossbows but I'll make an exception if the bolt doesn't have the velocity and drop of a lame pigeon

[jolly python]

https://tenor.com/view/skillissue-skill-issue-gif-22125481

[vast fable]

Yeah hoping it’s a bit snappier than the regular one. Would make crossbowman reeeeeeeally fun, pickin’ knights out of crowds.

[steel osprey]

;w; 👍

[tiny vessel]

I still wonder how archers would be if we ever get a sword and musket spinoff for Chivalry. I know you'd be missing more shots than not because smoothbore firearm, but I imagine you'd also be giving a crossbowman a short spear with Dane Axe stab reach

[steel osprey]

Well, thered be alot more shooting and no one would be complaining when someone decides to go melee

[tiny vessel]

But imagine spending a whole-ass 30 seconds to reload, or using your gun as a short 2h spear with knife damage (though thinking on it, i guess bayonet stab would have pitchfork range) ||inb4 a gunpowder spinoff brings out a bunch of jukendo masters because they can't hit any of their bullets||

[steel osprey]

More like 15s, 10 if you're good but its not as silly as it sounds.
[War of rights], though crappy its mechanics are, the flow, asthetics and themes aren't impossible to achieve.

[sturdy cave]

Might as well just play holdfast then

[tiny vessel]

But it's set in a period where armor is obsolete. Wanna think a Chiv spinoff game should still have Archer/Vanguard/Footman/Knight classes, though I think the only setting where guns can work with that class system is Feudal Japan :x

[hybrid fjord]

Which period are we talking? Post Cuirassier?

[tiny vessel]

IIRC, Holdfast is set around the Napoleonic Era, where the only armor that people wear were gambesons due to the uselessness of platemail.

Sengoku period, the Samurai were still fully armored, and the Yumi bow was still used in spite of the threat that rifleman formations posed to the more archaic marksmen

[jolly python]

https://tenor.com/view/moschops-gif-26269156

[sturdy cave]

Armour was mostly obsolete even when guns were just coming out

I mean I'm sure they still used armour up until world war 1

[hybrid fjord]

We use armor now

[sturdy cave]

i don't wear clothes at all

[tiny vessel]

Hence why I figured the era of the Samurai would be the best way to do a "Sword and musket" Chivalry game, since you'd still have heavy armor and longbows in a period where archers are adopting black powder weapons.

[hybrid fjord]

Europe wouldn't be exporting steel armor that could block arquebus rounds if they weren't using it themselves

[steel osprey]

The reneisance still existed

There was armour, halberds and guns

[soft hinge]

What grieves you about archer?
The overpowered aim assist and players that hide when using archer.

What overjoys you about archer?
Killing charging enemies and making cry baby anti-archers cry.

What is your least favorite archer subclass?
I dont really have one.

What is your favorite archer subclass?
Warbow

How are you today?
Im good.

[steel osprey]

I thought they fixed the aim assist

[hybrid fjord]

The homing magnetism is slated for 2.9

Projectiles still aim like shit

[tiny vessel]

So what's the next best thing for ranged support if all archer slots see fulfilled and your archers are wasting ammo on missed shots and/or low priority targets?

[hybrid fjord]

Drop the ranged and support via smacking people in the face, or support a different lobby.

[tiny vessel]

Two melee dudes against specific weapons might not end very well. Cuz my answer in that situation is "throw Dane Axe, let problem player be someone else's problem"

[vocal shell]

idk what weapons suddenly become more of a problem when the game is already dominated by halberd, gs, spear, messer, gmace even with archers. None of the shield classes are significantly dominant outside of LTS, and even that's more of a small team LTS thing where the benefits of shield approach the benefits of shield in duels.

[devout wadi]

i see archer is still a argued topic.

what grieves me about archer:

their ability to deal full damage through blocks, while in safety behind the frontline. often camping resupplies

what overjoys me about archer:

watching the scared warbow users die

What is your least favorite archer subcless:

warbow, way too safe. way too much damage

what is my favorite archer subclass:

skirmisher, healthy ranged gameplay while still capable of fighting in melee

how am i today?

i was better till i played chiv2 and died to archers that i had no hope of even getting near

[jolly python]

Why are you all still talking in this

The game is never gonna be updated

[hybrid fjord]

You take reduced damage while holding against projectiles. You obviously aren't better if you're still complaining about them.

[soft hinge]

Thats what some of these users do is complain about characters in a game.

[hybrid fjord]

Everyone complains about something, I hate warbows more than vanguards do.

[tiny vessel]

I hate my team's archers more than i hate my enemies' tbh

[solemn thorn]

hate playing

[hybrid fjord]

I hate joining teams and being restricted from playing crossbow and watching my own archers either sitting in the far back or doing nothing.

Then I have to rationalize we all start from shit.

[sturdy cave]

My team's archers either shoot their own teammates, or stand there looking pretty

[steel osprey]

I just shoot 2 arrows and then clobber my enemy because we're both walking towards each other. (I missed both of them)

[vapid pawn]

You can literally block throwable projectiles without shields

On top of that you can reduce damage of arrows of bolts by blocking without shields

Those noob mechanics were put in place for players like you

[steel osprey]

Lets not slide insults inside our corrections

or the message will be lost

[jolly python]

I say we tip something over

[solemn thorn]

like what

[hybrid fjord]

Well don't tip the cows

[solemn thorn]

why not those cows deserve it

they're saying things so obscene the universe has to censor them

[vapid pawn]

Like the knights who sit on the walls throwing rocks rather than defending the gate?

[hybrid fjord]

Yes

[minor ore]

The Archers’ biggest fear is private servers. They know that they will be left out.

[tiny vessel]

I still think you'd sing a different tune about Chiv2 archers if you had firsthand experience with Mount&Blade archers

[minor ore]

Bro, mount and blade isn’t the same genre. Dude stop bringing it up lmao I get it

[tiny vessel]

Multiplayer mode is tho

[hybrid fjord]

Cmw and wotr had to have gotten it from somewhere

[tiny vessel]

Actually try going into NeoGK's Team Deathmatch server on a Sunday while only playing Infantry or Cavalry.

If archers are as OP as you think they are, I'd be able to just mindlessly spam projectiles and eventually get a few kills because accuracy in volume and steamroll better players while turning my brain off.

[hybrid fjord]

Unironically volleys can work

[tiny vessel]

In Chiv2 where only 16% of the server population can be an archer?

[zinc willow]

What grieves you about archer? - A great many things. Arrows go through defense, it requires 0 skill. i could be 2v1'ing in melee combat and the only thing that'll be hitting and killing me will be arrows.

What overjoys you about archer? because theyre no skill noobs, theyre basically free kills if you get near one.

What is your least favorite archer subclass? war bow

What is your favorite archer subclass? skirmisher, javalin can at least be blocked and requires more skill aiming because of the heavy drop off.

How are you today? Good thanks, bought a snazzy wax seal stamp. Eager to use it on some christmas presents. You?

[tiny vessel]

Throwing axe buff when? Eating 94 damage headshots from 4HP bowman still sucks

[jolly python]

Agreed nobody here cares about Mount and Blade

[hybrid fjord]

Lies

[solemn thorn]

it is a lie because at least one person cares about mount and blade

[tiny vessel]

Having experience with multiple games in this genre helps when talking about archer balance in a melee game. I think Chiv2's handling of archers is p good, though Skirmisher needs some improvements.

[devout wadi]

i still find it funny that players will put the clown emoji on people having legitimate points of why the gameplay is unhealthy

i mainly play skirmisher, so having my projectiles be blocked, especially through active parry. makes arrows/bolts feel like a cheap mechanic

[tiny vessel]

I'd rather have 5 archers in a given team composition if it means not having to fight 20-man Highland Sword teams

[minor ore]

Gamble them. Literally free

[harsh lake]

https://tenor.com/view/execute-order66-order66-66-palpatine-star-wars-gif-20468321

kill all archers!!!

[tiny vessel]

@minor ore You sure you don't want me to buy you a copy of Warband so you can actually know what you're talking about regarding archer balance across multiple games?

Cuz I can tell that you could use the experience with a game where archers actually ARE OP

[hybrid fjord]

Gamble everything

[jolly python]

Warband is not a real game stfu about it holy shit

[tiny vessel]

Warband told the world that there's a market for PVP medieval games. War of the Roses and Chivalry 1 owes their existence to it

Insisting to not play its multiplayer is a refusal to know what you're talking about in regards to archer balance in this genre

I know what "archers are OP" looks like, and so does Boghadir, cuz we played the game where archers are OP. Chiv2 archers are child's play in comparison

Wake me up when bows and crossbows have shield penetration a la Bannerlord. Even then, they still wouldn't be able to carry a garbage team.

[hybrid fjord]

My awful experience was the full on teamkilling

[jolly python]

Cause we don't give a fuck about archers in Warband we give a fuck about archers in Chiv 2 and how throwing axe is the only way to play

[hybrid fjord]

Speak for yourself axeist

[jolly python]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-your-mouth-you-mediocre-clarinet-player-gif-22975439

[tiny vessel]

Enjoy never knowing what you're talking about regarding bow/xbow balance~

[burnt raptor]

I heard they removing archers in chiv 3

[hybrid fjord]

Yeah replacing them with gunners

[jolly python]

I know exactly what I'm talking about because I'm a skirmisher

[hybrid fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/you-shut-your-dirty-little-mouth-that70s-show-gif-16222076

[jolly python]

Longbow/Crossbow users are silly goobers with pasta for brains, they cant be trusted to understand game balance

[jolly python]

https://tenor.com/view/speech-bubble-png-speech-bubble-gif-26086226

[hybrid fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/pixelplace-gif-24586548

[jolly python]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kill-cat-kill-gif-20949162

[hybrid fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/die-just-die-gif-23172530

[minor ore]

If you want proof of the problem of archers look how they perform in LTS

[hybrid fjord]

LTS isn't indicative of the regular game

Although why Archers are on LTS is another weird choice

[tiny vessel]

Probably because LTS is based on WB's Battle mode, which also had archers (though that game didn't have class limits, whereas Chiv2 does)

[steel osprey]

The only reason I mained archer was out of spite of how poor it is.

[hybrid fjord]

I got the game to meme on knights with a crossbow since my focus in research is crossbowmen and the regions they prevailed in.

[vapid pawn]

I mained archer not because its fun, but because its unfun for everyone else

[tiny vessel]

I think you'd fit right in with Warband's current playerbase.

[halcyon steeple]

😳

[tiny vessel]

In my defense:

1. Archer complainers in this game definitely need experience in other medieval PVP games
2. I'm bad enough in the good game that I need to wait for the bad game to be good

And also, Reclamation update is taking long enough that "when bad game is good" seems like an accurate enough ETA

[halcyon steeple]

I just find the insistence on bringing it up in every message funny 🙃

[tiny vessel]

In the context of archers, people would realize how OP archers are when they actually see what "archers are OP" looks like.

If a well-rounded team was to go up against a team that's just archers and nothing else, the archer team would win even if they were the absolute worst players.

That is what "archers are OP" looks like

[solemn thorn]

"archers are super OP in warband therefore you aren't allowed to complain about them being bad in chivalry 2"

[solemn thorn]

in his defense, it's like 400 messages out of 3000 something total

[tiny vessel]

Let's see here:

1. Ranged mechanics are such where hitting something at medium range is kinda wonky at best, to the point where headshots feel more like the product of luck rather than skill
2. Class limits are at 16%, and are often filled in more situations than not. You'll spend much less time learning the nuances of the ranged 2v1 class
3. Most archers are dumb enough that you'll hate friendly archers more than enemy ones

[halcyon steeple]

How many of those are followup messages to his original ones pertaining to m&b 😔

[solemn thorn]

idk I unfortunately don't have to time to deep dive into this

[halcyon steeple]

Weak.

[solemn thorn]

no just employed

[tiny vessel]

Maybe when I'm actually good at Chiv2, I'll pay no mind to M&B

[halcyon steeple]

More like shop_whack

[tiny vessel]

Cuz then I won't have to wish for a bad game to be good when I can be good at the good game

[solemn thorn]

I wish

[halcyon steeple]

Chiv 2 ain't good it's just barely tolerable in a niche genre

[solemn thorn]

better than the competition, though that's not saying much nor does it excuse its problems

[halcyon steeple]

There are day 1 bugs still not fixed... It just speaks to how shit all slasher devs have been

[solemn thorn]

we'll get the game we deserve one day

[halcyon steeple]

One day when there's only 3 nostalgic old people in nursing homes still playing

Only then shall we get a good game

[tiny vessel]

We'd probably be long dead before the medieval PVP genre improves. Torn Banner's sitting on their laurels, who knows what the fuck the Mordhau devs are doing, and only recently has Taleworlds realized "hey, we listened to our fans and now people hate our game. Maybe we should listen to the people abandoning it instead?"

Though Taleworlds is taking small baby steps to improving their game rather than making sweeping changes

[hybrid fjord]

[solemn thorn]

well we've got Ad Mortem in the works, but it's too soon to make a call on how good it'll be

[jolly python]

errm warband???

[solemn thorn]

consider the following: warband

[jolly python]

Warband is the Fortnite of Medieval games

[plush forge]

I'm back just to tell you you're wrong 🖕

[solemn thorn]

I guess age of chivalry is older

[hybrid fjord]

I'm waiting on bannerlord to go on sale

[jolly python]

Thanks Badger

Warband nor Bannerlord is henceforth not a valid argument in the archer discussions

Anyone caught using the aforementioned "Mount and Blade" argument shall have their hands cut off and fed to @hybrid fjord

[hybrid fjord]

I'll eat your liver

[solemn thorn]

I guess they'll have their livers removed and fed to boghadir then

[hybrid fjord]

Rhodok is cool though

[tiny vessel]

i mainly picked Rhodok cuz I want Man-at-Arms to have a massive board of a shield to make it easier to not die while healing people

[hybrid fjord]

Based

[harsh lake]

https://tenor.com/view/starwars-gif-24406611

[tiny vessel]

Another argument in favor of throwing axe buffs: counterplay VS archer would give people a reason to play Crusader over Officer

[halcyon steeple]

Play crusader for funny sticc

[tiny vessel]

It's still a downgrade from Greatsword/Mace officer

[halcyon steeple]

Funny sticc

[hybrid fjord]

Thicc sticc

[sharp patio]

it's pretty lean actually

[jolly python]

Crusader is better than Officer because it has throwing axes

[steel osprey]

Crusader: Hits hard, has fire
Officer: Hits smart, has heals

Thats like the only way I differentiate when I see em

Crusader is great if you have a solid defense
Officer is great if you have a nasty offence

Throwing wise, I'd say the knives win out due to their throwing speed and higher number being better at catching archers whilst the axes are excellent at hitting anyone else as well as the fact that you can fight with them if you lost your secondary (somehow).
Or donate them to a disarmed engineer

[jolly python]

Boy if you think knives are strong here you never played Warband multiplayer

[steel osprey]

whus that mean?

[compact zealot]

Theyre strong as heck on ambusher. You are given the ability to hit anyone bleeding and kill them while still being able to duel (knight has to change his equipment from his better kit usually), and unlike knight you get 62 damage headshots

What i mean is, your knives wont even down them. Incredibly strong. You can easily beat archers at range

Theyre also dead accurate moving, jumping, which almost makes it a better light bow

Id check out dumpsters "knight officer" vids, he does some good throws

[jolly python]

Bro if you think knight officer is strong in this game you should see them in Bannerlord

[steel osprey]

Whats Bannerlord and Warband like?

[tiny vessel]

Warband: be an archer or die
Bannerlord: unbalanced piece of shit even if people aren't spamming archers for easy wins. Some factions are clearly better or worse than others, and Taleworlds' fans won't have it any other way. Archer spam is still OP enough that the worst faction in the game can win just by having an all archer team

[tiny vessel]

I'd argue that Officer can hit harder because he has GS

[sharp patio]

They're so aware I love them

they should all be put in jail

[tiny vessel]

The spooky archer mode

is Volley good for practicing your bow aim?

[sharp patio]

nope

it's only good for archer duels and that's only if you unironically play longbow

[tiny vessel]

I think the last time I played Volley, it was on Falmire and I spent less time shooting arrows and more time chicken punching

[jolly python]

God dude if you think Hallows' Eve is bad in Chiv 2 wait till you see how it is in Warband

[tiny vessel]

I get that you're making fun of me but for fucking real, I say "play warband" because archers in Chiv2 are child's play

Archers in Chiv2 are limited to 16% of the server population
Bow has a 20 shot quiver, and Crossbow 15
Bodyshot damage is relatively low, and headshots are more likely gonna be the product of luck rather than skill
Most players don't understand what target priority is and the few who do aren't that great of a shot anyways
Standing back at the spawn and shooting from that range gives enemies a generous time to dodge arrows
Class limits and first come first serve basis means you'll rarely get an opportunity to improve your aim with bows.

Meanwhile, in Warband
100% of the team being archers means you don't even need to think about aiming: just spam enough arrows and you'll eventually hit something
Only time when the above statement isn't true is when the enemy team is also using a 100% archer team, in which case the game devolves into what can best be described as a shittier version of the cover-based shooters that have oversaturated the late 2000s to early 2010s
Bow quivers have 32 arrows, and Crossbow bolts 20. You can carry redundant quivers to have up to 64 arrows or 40 bolts (or 96 arrows/60 bolts if you think the enemy will never enter melee range)

There. M&B vs Chiv comparison made

Also, i'm pretty sure 3 really good archers in a 40p game can't carry the absolute worst teammates, nor can mindlessly spamming your 20 arrows net you an easy kill

[solemn thorn]

You think archers in warband are bad? They're nothing compared to archers in warband.

[jolly python]

Honestly this makes me laugh. You think archers are bad in Warband? You don't know what OP is until you faced archers in Bannerlord.

[tiny vessel]

I have. That's why I bought Chivalry 2

Archer spam in Bannerlord doesn't happen as often as Warband, and it's actually impossible to spam archers in Chiv2

[jolly python]

Bro, archer spam is NOTHING compared to Mount and Blade: Viking Conquest. Bro, you are tripping

[tiny vessel]

I get that you're trying to make fun of me, but you can either gain some experience with other games in the medieval PVP genre to get a good reference point on where Chiv2 archers are, or accept that you'll never understand what the fuck you're talking about

A good archer can be a good compliment to decent players in Chiv2, but even the best can't hard carry shitty teams, especially since objective completion is often reliant on melee units actually being good at the game

Only thing I'd really change about the game's archery at this point would be to make archers vulnerable to the throwing axe, so that A: Skirmishers have a fair shot at killing bowmen, and B: Crusader can at least be a viable pick for anti-archer counterplay

[jolly python]

Man, it’s pretty clear to me you have no idea how overpowered archers are in Mount and Blade: Napoleonic Wars. It’s pretty sad.

[tiny vessel]

Are there any other classes besides archer in NW? Cuz I thought it was just riflemen and drummers

[jolly python]

Dude, don’t even get me started on how overpowered archers are in Mount and Blade: With Fire and Sword. It’s nothing compared to Chivalry 2

[swift totem]

suggestion to improve archers:

1. remove the ability to shove
2. remove the ability to dodge
3. remove the ability to carry melee weapons
4. reduce their speed by 50%
5. make them one shottable by anything
   would like to see those improvements, thanks

[steel osprey]

We could just give you guys mantlets on wheels if that makes ya happy

[tiny vessel]

Give it to Field Engineer. That might actually make him good

[solemn thorn]

That'll never happen. They'd never do something to make field engineer good

[jolly python]

Man if you think engineers are bad in Chiv 2, then count your lucky stars you don’t play as on in Mount and Blade Gekokujo. They’re broken in that game.

[sturdy cave]

You clearly haven't played Mount and Blade: Space Age, the archers in that game are op as

[solemn thorn]

gets funnier every time

[hybrid fjord]

Lords of mount and blade

[calm monolith]

Maybe this year for Halloween instead of candy we can get the seige crossbow. 🥲👻👻🏹

[thorny summit]

1/2- not much they are ok balance wise but I think the only thing I don't like is the fact they can hide from people in kill zones, I think they should have to leave it because some archers are very skilled and I can respect that but not when they are hiding from me 😩

3/4- bowman easily my fav, crossbow makes me wanna wrap guitar sting around my neck and and j#@$ of the empire state building with the guitar string(approximately 20ft) tied to the roof that way my whole God d$*# head comes off!

5- I'm quite alright thanks for asking. . . How about yourself.

[tiny vessel]

Is it bad that I want "Siege Crossbow Bolt" to be a hidden Slot 3 weapon? Imagine the thing getting caught on your shield, it still hits your arm, but you can yank it off to have an impromptu knife

[thorny summit]

That would be nice

[hybrid fjord]

Bayonets when

[thorny summit]

Completely off topic but HLL needs beyonets

But I digress

[jolly python]

Boy if only you knew how bayonets worked in Mount and Blade, they were really busted

[runic mauve]

I want all archers to burn except 1 archer whom I respect

[compact zealot]

Archers are fine, we have a class entirely dedicated to murdering them (ambusher), or have counters (guardian, man at arms, shields) or have a throwing weapon (devastator, officer, crusader)

[runic mauve]

no

[compact zealot]

3 classes out of the 9 melee who aren't explicitly an archer counter have a tool to kill archers that can kill them within the amount of ammo you are given

[tiny vessel]

You probably have more problems than just "I can't kill archers". As i've mentioned earlier in the thread, even the really good archers can't carry horrible teams

[runic mauve]

too bad

[compact zealot]

I play ambusher and basically if I see an archer, that archer is dead

There is not a single range they are safe. I can attack from anywhere.

Ok lionspire final objective lol. I think there's more of an issue with map design on some levels

[tiny vessel]

And quite frankly, my experience with the Archer class is that you're more likely to hate your team's archers than you will your enemy's since most players who play the archers have little to no idea on who they should shoot, let alone actually hitting them from medium range.

[compact zealot]

I've never seen an archer credited once for a team win either

Oh man and next patch. Next patch is gonna be a MAJOR SHIELD USE INCREASE

Atm, if you want to be a one handed knight without being slow as a turtle, you need to play as another class or unequip your shield

Now you can move as fast as possible with a lightshield (Which is all you need, it covers the same radius)

[tiny vessel]

Guardian might end up becoming my main just cuz medium shield and Warhammer combo

[thorny summit]

I don't get how people main archer. . . Can someone explain?

[solemn thorn]

Accidentally bought chiv instead of cod

[tiny vessel]

That seems almost impossible to do when you can only have 3 archers in 40p and 5 in 64

[tiny vessel]

Is safe distance still "I can't hit anything at all" distance?

Sitting at the back of the spawn is an annoyance for both teams.

Enemies because unkullable camper
Allies because the amount of time to react to ranged attacks is way too generous, and you're more likely to hit the spines of your teammates

[thorny summit]

Oof

[thorny summit]

Fr sh*t infuriates me!

[compact zealot]

I've seen a guy get some KILLS from there but yeah lol. I don't think anyones actually reacting to long distance arrows though

It's usually too distracting. That's why I play ambusher, I'm rewarded for those kind of flanks

Also to be specific, past 60 meters is about outside the range I can't reliably hit an archer usually on my first shot, which you need because they tend to panic when they get hit, and I think around past 30 for other throwables

30 meters also being kind of the "I can run to archer" distance easily

[tiny vessel]

Arrows and xbow bolts are much slower than ballista bolts. Yeah, I can get why some might opt for the longshot but it's definitely not something that's recommended for most players

They can barely hit things as it is at medium range

[compact zealot]

I'd prob be cracked at it

I was a heavy crossbow main last game lol. Oh and don't forget, the crossbow is getting a insanely powerful ranged option

I hope it blows vanguard heads off lmao

[tiny vessel]

I still want siege crossbow bolt to be a melee weapon

[compact zealot]

I have issues with archer in this game

Mostly related to sound effects and visuals. There's no archer weapon that's nearly as satisfying as the hand crank and head explosions of the chiv 1 heavy crossbow

So I don't wanna play them lol

[tiny vessel]

I could see an achievement called "Return to Sender", where you kill an archer by throwing a siege bolt at him

[vapid pawn]

Because its a medieval game

[jolly python]

Boy if you think Chivalry 2 in a medieval game? You’re delusional. Now Mount and Blade: Warband? It doesn’t get any more medieval than that. People these days…they don’t understand Mount and Blade gamers…

[soft hinge]

i dont get how players constantly cry about a character in a game.

[thorny summit]

I'm not crying I'm just asking because maining arch is super hard especially since there are f*ck all for slots(5) and most archers don't leave spawn nor do they hit literally anything. . .

[thorny summit]

No sh*t, really? I couldn't tell. . .

[thorny summit]

Mordhau arguably better.

[jolly python]

Man you just don’t know Medieval games man, Mount and Blade Floris is the better one of course, and disagreeing with me instantly disqualifies you from any argument because Mount and Blade is the most medieval game there is

[thorny summit]

Hey I didn't say it was the best midevil game I said it's arguably better

[vapid pawn]

clearly

but also, are you saying that knights are ez mode, and its hard to use archers?

[thorny summit]

Nah I'm saying there's a way to use Archers but it's not by hiding in the back, and tho there is a lot that goes into actually hitting a target but yeah play with a night or any other class takes a lot more skill

[vapid pawn]

i mean, theres a way to play every class, thats not really an exclusive advice to archer players

if you have archers that are missing every hit, and staying in spawn, then there's a good chance he isn't an archer main, he probably just plays archer from time to time

[thorny summit]

I would hope so. . .

[vapid pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qihL79jJX5s&t=111s

[steel osprey]

Spite, class sucks so I use it

[hybrid fjord]

The same way you play arty on tanks or aircraft carrier on warshits or Jannas huge knockers on league. Support your team from afar.

[thorny summit]

Oh lord league. . .

[hybrid fjord]

I haven't played it since college

[jolly python]

Mfw archers are eating my apples

[crystal yoke]

• What grieves you about archer?
That more people aren't maining archer.

• What overjoys you about archer?
I can go pew pew on a stinky knight from far away. Javelins are especially skillful to use in melee combat and you can take a stinky knight by surprise by throwing one in his face mid fight.

• What is your least favorite archer subclass?
Throwing axe.

• What is your favorite archer subclass?
Javelin/Crossbow

• How are you today?
Good. Threw a javelin in a knights face.

[solemn thorn]

god damn apple stealing archers

[jolly python]

The answer you gave to the third question is wrong

[solemn thorn]

sentenced to death by 1000 throwing axes

[crystal yoke]

I'm sorry man. I think they're good but I'm just not good with throwing axes!

[jolly python]

You just gotta throw and pray it’s ez

[crystal yoke]

thats what I do with my javelins, and I turn people into unicorn when I hit them in their faces its very cool

[runic mauve]

I recognise that name buddy

[tiny vessel]

I still think it's physically impossible to main archer due to having a limit of 3/5 and those are often taken up by potato players

[vapid pawn]

Usually the potato heads switch to another class when theyre tired of getting ran through

Or you can switch to the other team

[solemn thorn]

I mean you can just use ambusher when archer isn't available so long as you're maining archer for the ranged attacks and not the aesthetics

[tight kelp]

archer class is bad

bow in sword fighting game? bad

[hybrid fjord]

Your mom

[tiny vessel]

They usually stick to the class until your team loses because they allowed problem players to continue being a problem

And because they hog the class while not being smart about it, I end up settling for dual dane axe raider (or bow crusader if a bow rack is nearby)

[jolly python]

I cant believe this thread is still going

Should I close it folks? Have archers truly won?

[soft hinge]

No these anti-archers just re-hydrating their tears lol.

[tight kelp]

imagine using bow in sword game

[soft hinge]

imagine crying over what weapons players use. 🧂 much

[tight kelp]

tears of laughter my friend....

i pity the archers to be honest

[tiny vessel]

Because they're often too dumb to play the class, they can't aim, or both?

[solemn thorn]

imagine imagining

[tight kelp]

they are just deeply undesirable people

[jolly python]

Poo

[static finch]

In b4 KC Joker

[soft hinge]

archers are deeply undesirable but a lot of players use archer. someone salty they keep getting beat by archers.

[tight kelp]

this is cope

I only die to Dane axe and Messer users

[tight kelp]

typical archer, left speechless by a few mere words

[steel osprey]

I heard archer, what happened, who died?

[jolly python]

Torn Banner found the poop sock

[halcyon steeple]

Mount and Blade

[jolly python]

Did someone say mount and blade

[hybrid fjord]

Mount and Blade

[frosty sapphire]

Skirmisher sucks, and I have thought up some fixes:

1. Restockable shields, basically you can get a new shield at the ammo chest when you restock

2. More throwing weapons: maybe add

chakrams: basically throwable katars but with an actual slash

bolas: low damage, but topple enemies on hit (same as knight tackle or placeable trap)

boomerangs: one throwable that returns to you if not blocked (would still do damage on hit)

and maybe add throwing knives and mallets as an alternative for the trap

3. Unblockable throwables: same as arrows, your throws are unblockable but do reduced damage if they block

4. Quiver +: basically, the first throw within 5 seconds of using quiver will do double damage, seems pretty good since quiver is only on skirmisher now

5. Faster stamina regen/dash cooldown, just seems weird that a basically unarmored combatant is less maneuverable than one in armor and holding a shield

[tiny vessel]

I still think throwing axe headshots should one-hit kill arcchers.

[frosty sapphire]

Agreed

[steel osprey]

I'd rather just be thrown when a melee player catches me

[sleek sundial]

God boomerangs would be so fucking funny

[steel osprey]

A bag of rocks would do it for me, especially if it makes an iconic doink sound

[tiny vessel]

I still wanna see a slingshot for Crossbowman, and I still think its ammo should be environmental objects (you'll at least spawn with a bag of small rocks)

[hybrid fjord]

Slinger sounds like the thrower class

[tiny vessel]

Imagine launching a severed head with one of these

[white flicker]

I miss when the ramskull would one shot every class

[hybrid fjord]

I think I'm just gonna stick to the regular crossbow, I don't like the feel of the new one

[sharp patio]

it's good on offense with a lot of enemy siege weapons

not to mention a 140 damage knight headshot goes hard
so does a 81 archer shot into a jab

[hybrid fjord]

It feels like utter shit to use on controller

[tiny vessel]

What's its base damage? Cuz it'd be interesting to know how much damage it can do when stolen

[sharp patio]

60

[tiny vessel]

75 headshots on non-archer still seems delish

Ambushers ambushing a siege bowmen would be in for a treat

[tiny vessel]

If I see an influx of siege bowmen on my team... I might stand closely behind them as a knight :3

[white flicker]

To watch them die? I do that too

[tiny vessel]

To watch them die, steal their bows, and basically be a tanky crossbowman with a morning star

Because crossbow knight is the dirtiest way to play Chiv2

[tight kelp]

arrow magnetism was supposedly removed this update

[sharp patio]

Nice

[tight kelp]

how do the archers feel about the nerf?

[tiny vessel]

Hasn't affected me tbh, though that's mainly cuz my archer play is mostly reactionary.

[sharp patio]

People seem to forget that PC archers don't get nerfed here

I dont notice a difference cause there isn't one?

[steel osprey]

Oh yeah, we're actually worse than console players lol

[tight kelp]

i think maybe slight magnetism tweaks?

ik they nerfed aim assist, so now the console players need to actually aim which is nice

[vapid pawn]

Its no longer auto aim, its now aim assist 😄

[jolly python]

Archers are fixed

[vocal shell]

magnetism was removed, but there's a range where extreme movement already being in the process of occurring is the only way to dodge an arrow(such as a dodge input or a jump), and the aim assist still helps console archers within the pseudo-hitscan range to a degree where it doesn't feel that much better sometimes even at mid-range just due to the projectile speed being very suitable for short/mid-range and at the same time fairly slow for far longer ranges(which is why archers are incentivized to shoot melee targets and not other archers)

[sharp patio]

im hearing a LOT of crying

[vocal shell]

I'm seeing someone who doesn't acknowledge fundamental projectile mechanics in video games. It's the same concept which helps me find the sweetspot effective range as soldier in tf2, for example. At a certain range players cannot consistently dodge rockets while also being outside of the self-damage range, and that range is based on movespeed and current player state just like in chiv with archer's arrows.

The aim assist in this game is still overly strong within that particular range, but it is better than it was before because now they're not full aimbotting at ranges long enough to make counter-archering console players unnecessarily difficult due to not having abnormal initial arrow rotations/trajectories.

of course, counter-archery being the only consistent answer is still poor gameplay for everyone who isn't archer, and the difficulty of counter-archering is not appropriately offset by the reward for doing so compared to shooting melee players.

[jolly python]

Archers win

[light zinc]

1h spear in FFA or 1v1s is worse. You'd need to be a literal femboy to stoop that low 😂

[soft hinge]

Aim assist has not been fixed its still overpowered aimbot.

[harsh lake]

I did say they were hardly touching it if people actually listened and pay attention to the patch notes lol.

[tight kelp]

eh in 1v1 it's not too bad

spear is just fucking annoying when one starts prodding you during another fight

[steel osprey]

I just find it feels very 2 dimensional to use and ironically poor in 1 v Xs

[vocal shell]

yeah as ahhhh said they mentioned they were only changing the lesser component of aim assist, and the principle is as I described which makes it more range-based than it used it be, yet at the same time not weaker within the relevant range.

[sturdy halo]

Archers were nerfed?

[modern coral]

they have bows

[harsh lake]

#1110814303692537856 message I said this will happen but no one will listen lol

[jolly python]

Well boys it is clear that archers will never be fixed even after all of our important discussions

[tiny vessel]

Did that javelin just teleport several meters down to hit your arm?

[rough sable]

Yes it did

foolish of me not to bring a shield

[remote aspen]

just set a no archer mode and there won"t be any complaint about archers anymore

[tiny vessel]

A no archer mode will also have to be a no highland sword mode, being a weapon that encourages archer play

[steel osprey]

I think it'd be cool if there were certain circumstances where arrows actually bounce off their targets doing no damage, things like improper draw times, armour and distance to dictate if it sticks in or doesn't

[sharp patio]

🤪

[steel osprey]

._.

[harsh lake]

Then we also calculate how far it will go in and if it will do bleed damage on top of poison damage. Then see if enough bleed damage is applied to where it will ignore the revive mechanic and instant kill them instead lol. We will also determine whether or not if it bounces off their target but hits another person if it should mark both targets on the map for team mates to see their position.

Also if anyone is bonked by my Maul then they go flying into the next universe!

[sharp patio]

^this is what I said in long form

[shy drift]

From the perspective of a new player (About 25 hrs in) who mostly plays archer.

What grieves you about archer?

• Some of the terrain/scenery has the most obscure hitboxes, making me miss a decent amount of shots until I learned what can/cant be shot through/near, etc.
• Warbow is the best option for an archer, other weapons really don't compare
• Getting ammo is buggy, need to be at a certain angle and not have hitboxes in the way and if you look away it stops the process entirely.

What overjoys you about archer?

• Punished for getting flanked/Outnumbered and rightfully so, making you play better.
• Punishing players who get really cocky towards an archer
• Playing archer really gives me the chance for a lot of 1v1 dueling so that helped me pick up some of the fancier footwork early on
• Crossbows have a lot of vulnerability, but have a decent rewarding feeling for playing it.

What is your least favorite archer subclass?

Spearman.

Doesn't mesh with my playstyle. Feels really clunky to play when going into the throwing mode. (PC) Feels like its made to skirmish a bit more, which is fine, but doesn't have speed so kinda falls flat.

What is your favorite archer subclass?

Crossbowman

Effective at all ranges.
Banner is great for helping out my team for a push/defence.
Pew Pew

How are you today?

Disappointed, worked my way up to level 20 archer to try the new Siege Crossbow. Feels like its a direct downgrade from the regular crossbow. Less ammo, longer reloads, slower projectile, doesn't 1shot other archers like the warbow (minus headshots) All the more risk, for little reward. I can get off 2 shots from a regular cbow, in the time it takes me to fire 1 if ive got someone targeting and approaching me.

[sharp patio]

Counterpoint: The Siege crossbow does 140 damage to knights on a headshot

But yeah overall its just worse than the normal xbow unless you're shooting at people on siege weaponry

[tiny vessel]

How good is the Siege Crossbow if you looted it off a corpse as other classes? Cuz I can tell you all how good a regular crossbow feels when using it as a Knight

[shy drift]

Havent seen another player use it yet in any of my matches.

[steel osprey]

I just use the seige bow as a bludgeon, hits the hardest of all the bows with improved reach (snrrk) compared to the crossbow and has a faster projectile making it more reliable in close ranged combat against strafing vanguards.

[minor ore]

https://youtube.com/shorts/V93oxThgWd0?si=A2cHSJZYIOsAgO4C
Archers should not be able to hold their bow back. Makes it more skilled and easier to read for countering arrows

[tiny vessel]

Alternatively, they should make losing stamina past a certain point disarm you due to the drawstring snapping, with the spent stamina on drawstring snappage not being refunded

[sharp patio]

I hate bows because you have to hold them taut

I only play crossbows for that reason

[sharp patio]

also to solve this problem you play crossbow and just keep aiming so they never know when you're gonna fire

[minor ore]

make crossbow have brazzy weapon sway

[white flicker]

Genius

[verbal reef]

Archer best class in the game. Literally all arguments are baseless and pointless thread 🤓

[steel osprey]

Someone bow react this one?

[tiny vessel]

A dumb thought and a bit more of a question for real life than in-game, but how practical would a melee crossbow be? Like how the Uruk-hai armor their crossbows so that they can be used as pickaxes without breaking

[solemn thorn]

it would probably be more practical to attach a bayonet to the crossbow

[steel osprey]

In chivalry, smackin people with the siege bow is pretty useful.

Irl, I think it'd be better to make a handgonne spear hybrid rather than make a pointy crossbow since the limbs need to flex so it can shoot and it's wide shape will make it cumbersome to use as a poking stick

[sharp patio]

spiked bows are basically spikes on sticks so they can't be that bad

Warbows in particular get really fucking big so they can easily be used as melee weapons in a pinch

[solemn thorn]

Such a weapon would definitely be more practical. I only said bayonet because it's more reasonable than using a crossbow as a pickaxe and only requires a modification of the original weapon.

[tiny vessel]

On top of the armor that helps stop the crossbow from breaking when swung, Uruk crossbows also had thrusting blades at the front of the weapon

[steel osprey]

A pickaxe with crossbow limbs fitted closely beneath it's actual picks wouldn't be too wild

Super heavy but then again then you could make a super high draw weight crossbow and some thin picks on the side using the actual limbs as weights instead of the picks

[wary badge]

What grieves you about archer?
I love skirmisher but as I play on console, throwing is extremely unintuitive for me and often times I will miss my chance to hit an enemy due to it. also despite my clear disadvantage against melee players, they really feel the need to t-bag and personally that kinda ruins my experience alot

What overjoys you about archer?
Its really fun to play as, skirmisher in the way its satisfying to hit throwing axe headshots, also the arrow cam is really fun, ngl wish the arrow would like rotate in that view

What is your least favorite archer subclass?
I like all of them, though warbow is annoying to use as a console player, I stick with normal longbow

What is your favorite archer subclass?
Skirmisher, mace + shield goes so hard

How are you today?
I just woke up 😭

[tiny vessel]

Anti+archer bonus on throwing axe when?

[white flicker]

Hatchet needs an increase to 8-10 to even compete with Javelin

[tiny vessel]

I honestly prefer the Throwing Axe just cuz of how much faster the throw animation is, and also the fact that it has a swinging attack

My main gripe with it is when i headshot him, shrugs it off, and i get one-hit-domed from full health while he's running around with 4HP remaining

[raven sleet]

What grieves you about archer?
Arrows somehow just magnetize more towards teammates, I can aim and see the arrow go straight through an enemy sometimes and have it just hit a teammate, could be a hitreg issue again.

What overjoys you about archer?
Fun to look from behind the battlefield and pick the targets with the most potential to break our offense/defense.

What is your least favorite archer subclass?
Crossbowman, too slow and low damage to be worth it, maybe I'm playing him wrong I dunno.

What is your favorite archer subclass?
So far, archer, might become more partial to javeliner when I unlock it.

How are you today?
My throat hurty because I stayed in the cold :(

[wary badge]

thats more of a javelin than an axe imo

[wary badge]

hit em with that 5 dmg kick

[tight kelp]

is there edging in this game?

[tight kelp]

@soft hinge ?

[sharp patio]

die