Archer Changes

[worn marsh]

I feel like people who make this claim haven’t really seen an Aimbot in action, it’s just strong aim assists but in no way is it close to a real aim bot.

Also I haven’t played in a single lobby where a Console Archer has taken the top spot in a lobby.

[thorn robin]

My good man you just earned a shot against the title for this argument you won

[brazen olive]

The only aim assist I need is the will of Allah to guide my shots, amen 🙏

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/hallal-cat-gif-25588409

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-lies-deception-everyday-disappointment-gif-20508233

[lapis cipher]

god I love how this thread is just "statement" "nuh uh" "yuh huh"

[tall hound]

nuh uh

[brazen olive]

Damn you I was gonna make that joke

In that case, yuh huh

[ruby adder]

most civil archer discussion

[minor hollow]

Oh god

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/jonathanfrakes-facts-fiction-belief-gif-gif-26488349

[snow bear]

don't worry guys I found something that's irony

[minor hollow]

I can’t tell if this is a joke or not

[thorn robin]

Fuck you

You're my friend now

[flat pagoda]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/902017291309416478/1124907356841578576/caption.gif

[pallid plume]

uses warbow as a bludgeon, shooting point blank occasionally

[snow bear]

the forbidden quarterstaff

[pallid plume]

The stick that shoots smaller sticks

[fathom aurora]

anyway we solved archers, force them to play melee so they don't get one shot, and melee to play with shields so they have 100% resistance to arrows. no one's happy, no one gets to complain. done.

[thorn robin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/440328250112344064/1127698624361537587/caption.gif

[lapis cipher]

can I kiss you?

[thorn robin]

No

[lapis cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/bloodcartier-gif-25748615

[brazen olive]

Can I kiss you?

[thorn robin]

Absolutely not

[brazen olive]

Wtf why did I get even worse than a simple no 😭

[pallid plume]

I won't kiss you ;3

[flat pagoda]

Yooo why is my man on timeout?

[brazen olive]

🤓 mods

[strange kelp]

Maul god #MaulGod #ArchersMadStinky

[snow bear]

maybe in order to indirectly make archers less annoying to deal with, changes can be made to make the already-existing classes with shields more fun and interesting

I see very few shield players in most games, and the fact that no shield subclass is available to newer players can lead them to develop frustration towards archers early on.

It is a real shame that none of the classes had a shield option from level 1

[pallid plume]

Mmhmm

[vagrant eagle]

Very nice heres mine

[pliant trail]

TBF Making shield classes available at level 1 is actually a very fair suggestion.

[dusk pulsar]

very nice, here is mine as well

[vagrant eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-американскийпсихопат-кристианбейл-american-psychopath-christian-bale-gif-17867735

[brazen olive]

Conclusion: nerf maul

[wispy wolf]

Bring back keeper or i wont engage in these threads anymore. You have 2 days.

[inner pecan]

I honestly wish i saw the discussions before they deleted the messages

[atomic stratus]

Wouldn’t really call it much of a discussion

[wispy wolf]

Good thing i have screenshots of the entire argument that im not willing to share unless keeper is unbanned

[inner pecan]

You must share!

[sick peak]

Proposed changes: highlight everything to do with Archers in the code and shift-delete.

[atomic stratus]

This was basically the discussion

[strange kelp]

Whyd it take them so long fr

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/black-black-adam-adam-i-have-returned-returned-gif-17480413

[vagrant eagle]

Archers won

[thorn robin]

Damn can't believe Keeper got banned but not Ziggy

We need a new Keeper for this

[vagrant eagle]

Joker could fill the role

[thorn robin]

Who tf is Joker

[vagrant eagle]

Idk quiet guy, comes and goes, pro archer

[lapis cipher]

random you should have a joker moment and become the new keeper

[vagrant eagle]

Villian arc after ban

[brazen olive]

He'll be back, he always comes back

[thorn robin]

__

I will not be responding to you if you can't back up your experience with Archers with a Chivstats link or your Profile screenshot. Here is mine so we can avoid the trolls.

https://chivstats.xyz/leaderboards/player/32D2EF8EA9C46DA9/

Feel free to add more questions or just answer the ones you want.

The purpose here to avoid misinformation and have productive talks.
__

What would you change for each Subclass?
A. Longbow
B. Crossbow
C. Skirmisher

What get's you killed the most?

What is your favorite map?

What is your least favorite map?

What secondary would you like to have?

How do you feel about Ballista Users Hitboxes? What map do you feel is the worst?

What change would you like to the class?

What ping do you stop playing Archer at?

What is your preferred range to play at?

Do you prefer going after other Archers or Melee?

Do you actually use the Arrow cam?
Image

[brazen olive]

Amogus

[lapis cipher]

this is a historic event right here

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/sus-pizza-among-us-among-us-meme-sussy-gif-24581549

Summing up the progress made from archer threads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_YwajWURu8&ab_channel=JCFosterTakesItToTheMoon

[brazen olive]

Lmao

If we all had burgers maybe we'd be less upset

[thorn robin]

Well we can't now. All of the badmins are watching.

Especially Yurik.

[pallid plume]

Archers are cool

[lapis cipher]

archer more like uh oh stinky

[thorn robin]

Honestly, archer haters have no idea what they’re talking about.

But trying to speak to them is like convincing an apple to peel itself

You’ll look fucking stupid

[atomic stratus]

The anti-archer gang even refuses to learn how to fight archers. Won’t even listen to advice from actual archer mains

[patent notch]

Use Shield

[thorn robin]

So you’re telling me I need to play a specific subclass to counter a full class? Bad design.

[patent notch]

Oh well 🤷‍♂️

[thorn robin]

“Oh well” hardly covers it…Torn Banner is a joke.

[minor hollow]

I extremely dislikes the choices of the moderation team 🤓

[lapis cipher]

I think the moderation team should delete this entire server

[pallid plume]

Hey guys:

[minor hollow]

100 levels of pain

[fathom aurora]

That's not very keeper of you

[thorn robin]

Be quiet archer main. Go back to Fortnite 😂

[pallid plume]

Um

[unreal patrol]

He called me disabled and told me my parents dont love me.

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/next-goldberg-youre-next-wwe-world-wrestling-entertainment-gif-17791133

[inner pecan]

So he pulled a Random got it

[thorn robin]

Meanwhile Ziggy called me a stupid fool with no future 😞

[inner pecan]

Thats why i said mods play favoritism 😉. One person says it they dont get in trouble but if another person does it they get banned.

[unreal patrol]

I didn't do that

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/reality-substitute-replaced-adam-savage-mythbusters-gif-10816078

Down with the content creators

[unreal patrol]

I can't believe this fucking guy

he asks me to play throwing axes, I do, and then he stabs me in the back

[thorn robin]

You must reach rank 100 with throwing axes and then I will disappear completely

But anyways yeha archer won the debate guys we can close the thread

[inner pecan]

I mean who doesnt want to stab Archers and Skirmishers in the back? Thats one of the fun parts lol

[unreal patrol]

Wasn't playing Skirmisher.

[inner pecan]

Knight with throwing axes then or you talking about Dane Axes with Vanguard or you just picked them up?

[unreal patrol]

I picked it up off the ground as footman.

[thorn robin]

Makes me cry seeing a footman with a throwing axe. Poor fellas really wanna be the best ranger in the game

[brazen olive]

Footmen with throwing axes, whatever

Knights, vanguards, footmen with bows? HARAM

[thorn robin]

Thing is none of them can be as good as skirmisher

[strange kelp]

Hes a constant negative presence. Acting like it was one thing he said is naive. He had tons of opportunities to improve.

[thorn robin]

Found the content creator

[white osprey]

Please focus on the feedback presented in the OP, not grievances with other users. Thank you

[inner pecan]

He actually did by a lot and when he did people were acting worse then him but were never punished. Can easily go through and pick them out for how much of a difference there was compared to how people were acting then he was.

[thorn robin]

No

[strange kelp]

Active parry should block arrows 😎

Save Chiv 2

[brazen olive]

Don't go back to jail so soon 😭

[thorn robin]

I wanna go back to prison

The world has changed too much. People here actually like archers.

[brazen olive]

Is that what they call twinks in prison?

[strange kelp]

You either die a Maul user or live long enough to become the archer

[thorn robin]

I unlocked skirmisher by playing Maulcher

[brazen olive]

Maul is for cavemen

[thorn robin]

You’re a caveman

[inner pecan]

I am Mans of Caves

[thorn robin]

Gross

[inner pecan]

Never watched Flint Stone? Teaches you how to live a real life lol

[floral compass]

you're telling me archer mains exist?

i thought that was a myth

https://tenor.com/view/dog-back-dog-golden-retriever-back-golden-retriever-scared-golden-retriever-disgusted-gif-26048691

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/894178203583774790/1128457540481581136/attachment.png

[inner pecan]

Previous archer threads has that video go look at it and its explained as a trail glitch which happens on all platforms not because of aim assist. He hit where he aimed at.

[floral compass]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1057226226122625074/1059191092676935740/d769a827-8ae5-4014-8622-9729bc5b7ad0.mov

this as well was also a trail glitch im guessing

[atomic stratus]

B U T T E R

[floral compass]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/564612267627511820/1128461659904671824/IMG-20230123-WA0003.jpg

[atomic stratus]

Ew third person archer

[wispy wolf]

Yes i just one shotted you within 2 seconds of the match, what are you gonna do about it?

[floral compass]

melee you?

everyone knows archer mains cannot melee!

[wispy wolf]

As if you can ever get close cmon now

Im with my homies chilling waiting for noobs to take the bait

[floral compass]

even though the bows don't have scopes most archers suffer from terminal tunnel vision

unfortunately, non-curable

[wispy wolf]

Check this out

What do you see

[floral compass]

https://tenor.com/zYmf.gif

[inner pecan]

Yes i can reproduce that as a PC player with no aim assist

@floral compass https://medal.tv/games/chivalry-2/clips/1gw5R2Vjq8XX1_/d1337IBpaUGX?invite=cr-MSxQZHgsMTg2MjMxMTY4LA At the start of my video you see it happen as well. Its just a trail glitch

[pallid plume]

looms nearby with an incorrectly held warbow

[dusk pulsar]

so you are the guy that joins duel servers as an archer and abusing the vote kick glitch?

[inner pecan]

I hardly play Duels. I play FFA.

So no lol

[lilac jacinth]

Who wants to start fight today?

[lapis cipher]

eh, rather not hand archers another dub

[brazen olive]

No fight without the heavyweight champ keeper making his return

[fathom aurora]

he's been stripped of the belt for doping. Or being a dope, one of those

[thorn robin]

When is Keeper coming back

Also Elbow is the champ right now

[brazen olive]

Idk I feel like this is the longest he's gone without appealing, I'm worried fr fr 😔

[inner pecan]

He was super banned. Never to return!

[thorn robin]

Should I ask him

[inner pecan]

go ahead?

[strange kelp]

Our butthurt correspondant on the ground, getting the information to the people 🎤🎥

[thorn robin]

Bro, what the fuck did you just call me?

DO YOU KNOW WHO THE FUCK I AM

I'm nobody

How are you today

[brazen olive]

Shut up

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shut-up-gif-25699987

[floral compass]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-gif-25628425

[pallid plume]

Archers are cool

[lilac jacinth]

I’m broken

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/jabba-laugh-star-wars-haha-mood-gif-11764102

[lilac jacinth]

I clearly just was distracted a need better positioning

[inner pecan]

It seem like you were bullying someone and the Archer was the Class Hero who stopped the bully lol

[brazen olive]

I mean point blank with an archer aiming down sights about to shoot you? I know the counter window isn't the most gracious but that is the textbook example of when you should counter an archer, they either shoot and get countered or they don't shoot and your melee hits them

[serene widget]

Why this thread have 6200 comments

Ziggys changes make sense

Skirmisher as anti archer class would be cool

[wispy wolf]

Oh god what are you even doing here

[atomic stratus]

Ya should’ve play out of his LOS

[lilac jacinth]

Genius

I’ll try that next time

[atomic stratus]

Cool, glad I could help

[brazen olive]

I know you hate archers but that's like legit the most obvious time to counter, when an archer is aiming down sights in point blank melee range- either you counter their arrow and hit them, or they don't shoot and you still hit them

[lilac jacinth]

I could try to guess when the cross bow would shoot. Although it is completely unreadable. He could very well have waited until he had a guaranteed shot which would have come soon because the actual player in front me was winding up an attack and i either would have blocked it, making me vulnerable to attack or countered it, where he could wait until my release or time it perfect after the arrow parry window is up

It is a bogus system stop trying to pretend. It’s ok just admit that is unfair

[brazen olive]

Ehh if he waits to shoot he legit just dies there, it's as simple as counter slashing/counter slash to another slash feint there

I know you hate archers but if they can't pressure melee from a distance they're legit just useless and redundant when compared to a spearmen or whatever

[lilac jacinth]

Good

They should be reduced to a meme class

[brazen olive]

Well enjoy looking for a different game cause it's never happening here

[lilac jacinth]

It is lol! Private server are coming and there will be no archers

[brazen olive]

Mhmm mhmm private servers are coming, and TB actually cares about their game as well!

[lilac jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/palmas-gif-26050611

You’ll see

[brazen olive]

Sure, hit me up when that happens

Hopefully I'm still alive!

This game thrives off the casual console playerbase, if you think they're going to dedicate their time to developing private servers for a minority of the players you are unfortunately mistaken

Your best bet at private servers is through the third party modders who have many hurdles to jump through

And you will surely have a tiny playerbase to enjoy there with the pc and separate download exclusivity

[inner pecan]

Keep forgetting console players cant even partake in Zains private servers as they need to download shit to join as well lol

[brazen olive]

That's what I'm saying, these comp players can maybe enjoy playing on their ghost town servers in a year+ time or they can accept that this is a casual game meant to appeal to a wider audience and accommodate more than just sweaty melee mains

[lilac jacinth]

we already have those. My friend, you are mistaken, private servers will come, have faith my child

[brazen olive]

How's the regular playerbase on those?

[lilac jacinth]

on what

[brazen olive]

Private servers obviously

[rustic elk]

When will this thread die goddamn

[inner pecan]

Well 1 they honestly should of made private servers regardless since they cant even properly moderate duel servers to prevent rdmers or hackers taking over servers. 2 this would allow people to host tournaments more easily / more frequently. 3 private servers would honestly solve every ones bickering on we should have this or we should have that and they can decide on what they have on their own servers.

[rustic elk]

More active than the actual game

[brazen olive]

Oh I agree private servers would be good, but are they happening? Fat chance

[atomic stratus]

You can’t silence archers, we always win

[inner pecan]

It aint happening, it aint on their agenda and people already know this lol

[rustic elk]

Fr just self reported like that? On god?

[brazen olive]

I have no problem with egotistical melee mains isolating themselves to their hugboxes

[atomic stratus]

Fr fr

[brazen olive]

Just like comp play was never on their agenda yet people still try to make it a comp game

If chiv had an isolated comp mode I would love to keep those players over there rather than have them give the shittiest takes on casual TO balance

[inner pecan]

I mean a lot of people in the comp community dont think its a competitive game and feel its just a casual game with the amount of stupid shit you can do. Also again most of the comp community arent whining about archers thinking they over powered, its just a handful of people. Thats why I was telling people to look at ziggy twitch channel that has over 10k sub base but then gets no support and bitches someone out in his own live stream about not getting support. With how the game mechanics are it boils down to who fucks up first on countering and thats pretty much it.

[late forum]

Till we get some justice

[inner pecan]

Its a real basic combat system which honestly puts Chiv 2 really down low on comp level lol

Like if you want real skill challenges for a competitive style gameplay Mordhau is better for it then this game lol

[late forum]

if we had private servers/be able to mod, people could make a mod for comp for the way wanted to be

[inner pecan]

I actually said that up a bit further. Zain has plenty of stuff for people to use but not everyone can use it though as the PC players arent that many and its mostly console players

[thorn robin]

We love casting spells

AAAAAAAAAAAGH

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-anime-spell-gif-22749169

[late forum]

part of that is because it’s not in the game itself i’d think

[brazen olive]

I think the combat has enough depth, it's the <30 tick servers, terrible hitreg and hitboxes, lack of private servers, and lack of sbmm that make this game a joke in terms of comp play

[thorn robin]

This is less than 30 ticks

hol up

[inner pecan]

For Casual yes its great and amazing. For Comp level its a joke and its not great for dueling

[thorn robin]

Know what forget it the joke is dead

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/embo-embo-star-wars-embo-get-fucked-loser-get-fucked-get-fucked-loser-gif-20079762

lol

[thorn robin]

I don't have to take this from some longbow main

[inner pecan]

Incorrect information you have,

Maul Main

[serene widget]

Honestly I'm fine with dieing to skilled archers because I know they would have had an impact if they chose melee.

I don't think the degree of aim assist console and controller archers get is healthy

[thorn robin]

The maul is just a heavier longbow. your point??

[inner pecan]

Hmmm True cause if I yeet it at someone im doing 100 damage lol

[inner pecan]

They just need to remove the ability for it to move to targets for you and thats it. That is a little goofy for aim assist to do

[thorn robin]

why doesnt aim assisst worrrksss fororrr throwing axeses

[brazen olive]

I'm glad you at least understand the things you give up to play archer...

I could play archer and have a decent supportive impact with takedowns OR I can play melee, have an actual presence on the objective, and slaughter others en masse

[thorn robin]

or do both

https://tenor.com/view/calavera-fumando-gif-26172337

[inner pecan]

Yes play knight and pick up bow

[brazen olive]

Skirmisher is still an archer lol

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-no-nonono-noooo-cat-no-gif-25423213

[inner pecan]

Ha ha it aint working for you lol

[thorn robin]

What the fuck did they disable gifs

These mods are a bunch of commie tyrants

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-haha-laugh-funny-lol-gif-13483471

[thorn robin]

https://tenor.com/view/tense-table-smash-mad-gif-13656077

IT NOT FAIR

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-star-wars-new-trilogy-palpatine-gif-24997260

[brazen olive]

Lmaoo they disabled it for random only cause he made a mod shid himself with fnaf jumpscare

[thorn robin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/911626667154374661/1115696599063076966/ezgif-4-bbea6cadab.gif

THIS IS BECAUSE IM TENOSIAN ISNT IT

[inner pecan]

Masons better

[inner pecan]

I honestly think they got tired of him using it all the time lol

[thorn robin]

They hated me because I spoke the truth

[inner pecan]

Which truth is that?

[thorn robin]

The truth

[inner pecan]

So da bible?

[thorn robin]

Actually I was thinking Hatchet by Gary Paulsen

[inner pecan]

Sexier

[brazen olive]

Actual pog book

Unfortunately ever since taking up archery I cannot read anymore

[thorn robin]

Okay I can at least post stickers

Seems like they only disabled gifs here

[serene widget]

I think they ahould keep the ability for crosshair to move to targets and get rid of bullet curve

[inner pecan]

There isnt any arrow curve its a trail glitch thats it.

[thorn robin]

Arrow Curve is real for sure

[inner pecan]

Hey quiet over there no GIF issue

[thorn robin]

😭

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-darth-vader-if-you-only-knew-the-power-of-the-dark-side-gif-15855616

https://tenor.com/view/unlimited-power-star-wars-gif-10270127

[lilac jacinth]

don't mind me being distracted playing the game, should have countered the arrows

[atomic stratus]

Dunno man, seems like you rushed in and got punished for it

[pliant trail]

Also they couldn't hit you until the end of the fight cuz their teammates were blocking you so you know, kinda proves that counterplay (to arrows) shouldn't be "I held right click you legally can't damage me" seeing as you were able to kill 3 people before they could even take a shot, then survived a fuckin headshot AND a shot after that.

[pallid plume]

beautiful jump

[inner pecan]

He shot you in the back nice. You had a shield on your back you would of negated all that damage lol

[lilac jacinth]

It’s crazy all the excuses archers make up to justify 180hp being taken away for nothing.

[brazen olive]

Not really sure what you want here? Should archers not be able to shoot you in the back while you're fighting other people?

[vagrant eagle]

From their own spawn direction

[wispy wolf]

Dont get yourself muted again.. telling you this for your sake

[inner pecan]

Using a video that just shows you got shot in the back the whole time? Like what point were you trying to make here? You shouldnt be hit in the back by an arrow but getting hit by a weapon in the back is okay? Would a Dane axe to the back be better? Javelin? Can name a lot of weapons that would of killed you in 2 hits but that would of been fine right? lol

Also not an archer main here lol

[inner pecan]

As long as Ayla doesnt direct people to use ChivMail to report hackers she wont be muted lol

[fathom aurora]

So you shouldn't go the intended way to the objective as that's rushing, and you should also just have a shield at all times, even though you can fight off other weapons, sometimes 3:1, without needing one.

It's a good example of how an archer can pressure melee by standing 10 meters away and just... deal damage. If he'd turned to kill the archer he'd be killed by melee. But fighting the melee makes it so the archer can drain his health without being in any danger.

[brazen olive]

The entire point of archer is to pressure from a distance and make you reposition though

He also didn't even kill him despite 3 shots and 1 being a headshot, and he still reached the objective so I don't see the issue here

[fathom aurora]

The fun part is that everyone is talking about being hit in the back but if it was from the front it'd make zero difference for the archer

[fathom aurora]

you don't see an issue with being able to take someone down to 1 health without being at risk?

[brazen olive]

If it was in the front he would probably have an enemy between him and the archer

[fathom aurora]

yeah that always works, 100% of the time

[inner pecan]

But again its okay if other weapons take you to 1 hp

[brazen olive]

That's the literal point of archer, to pressure from a distance and create zones that are dangerous to linger in

[fathom aurora]

what? You can defend against those weapons. Being hit by them is your mistake, the "mistake" of beign hit by arrows is being near the objective

[brazen olive]

A javelin in the back would have the same result here though

[fathom aurora]

which is fine as a concept but idk why that damage has to be free for the archer

[brazen olive]

It's not free, you have to aim and you sacrifice hp, stamina, good melee weapons, and objective presence

[fathom aurora]

not having a defence against it is still free.

[brazen olive]

Good specials as well if you aren't crossbowman

[fathom aurora]

the health and weapons is irrelevant as you don't rely on those to do damage from range

[brazen olive]

Only irrelevant if you're sitting back a mile away and being largely ineffective

Especially on defense, the enemy will reach you eventually

[fathom aurora]

and that guy just got a good melee player to 1 health that was on the objective. sun god is now a kick away from death

[inner pecan]

You realize your not immortal. Even if you can block things you can still be hit regardless. A Vanguard can chill in the back and throw shit at you from a safe distance, a Knight can throw shit at you from a safe distance, a Footman can throw shit at you from a safe distance, a Skirmisher can throw shit at you from a safe distance. See a Skirmisher if your playing Vanguard can 1 shot you but thats okay cause it can be blocked, but when you want to block something and they give you that means to block it, you wont accept it as a choice. In this mans video he took 4 shots but didnt die, so now imagine your able to block those arrows with your sword. Wtf is the point of archer now since your better off playing Skirmisher doing more damage and comes with a shield?

[fathom aurora]

granted archers don't get awarded points for playing the objective, which they should imo (by shooting people near it), but that's still objective pressure

[inner pecan]

Thats why no MMO game gives you the ability to block arrows with your damn sword lol unless by countering

[fathom aurora]

these can all be blocked with a reasonable amount of skill.

[brazen olive]

His clip has nothing to do with arrows being blockable or not, they could have been throwing knives or javelins and the result would have been the same

His back was turned the entire time

[fathom aurora]

i've always pushed for an archer rework, blockable arrows for more damage and stamina pressure. I think that's the best change

[brazen olive]

Timed parry on arrows? Maybe... Held block to block arrows just seems absurd, you already have bracing

Even mordhau wouldn't go that far

[fathom aurora]

mord doesn't have held block though

[inner pecan]

Its not like again look at other medieval games. Why dont you think they didnt do it and they been out way longer with still more player base then this game. No MMO game would dare to just allow swords to block arrows regularly like blocking melee attacks cause it renders the class useless

[thorn robin]

Oh boy are we back????

WE ARE SO BACK

[brazen olive]

Exactly, that's why timed parry on arrows is fine in that game

[fathom aurora]

no mmo uses hit tracers, idk what your point is

[brazen olive]

It's the equivalent of countering arrows in chiv 2, but I'd rather have timed parry to block arrows than counters tbh it's just clunky and offputting

[fathom aurora]

moving it to the first Xms of parry might make it a bit more reasonable to do

similar to mord

and doesn't commit you to an attack, just takes stamina

[brazen olive]

Which is fine with me, held block blocking arrows just sounds like a good way to neuter archers completely

As well as making shields redundant

[fathom aurora]

well you could still hold shields up, they'd be much, much safer

though drain stamina like mad

[inner pecan]

Hit tracer has nothing to do with why they dont implement a sword blocking arrows lol

[fathom aurora]

it's a totally different combat system and balance, I don't see the relevancy of mmo combat to chiv combat

I can also turn into a dragon and body people in eso, it doesn't make it relevant to chiv

[thorn robin]

Yeah but eso is bad

[fathom aurora]

there's also often magic and magic shields and fireballs. melee classes often have ranged options too

[inner pecan]

Doesnt matter of the combat system, its all based on the same thing. Medieval type warfare yet again why doesnt Mount and Blade implement swords to block arrows, why doesnt Mordhau implement it. Why you think TB never done it their past games they created lol. I can drag this list down onto other games not doing it lol.

It renders archers useless meaning there is no point to the class and should be rid of

[fathom aurora]

we can also slash through plate armour with a sword, it's medieval themed but it could be sci fi or fantasy.

[thorn robin]

Badger try not use a shield challenge (impossible)

[fathom aurora]

and again, rework, make archers a ranged pressure class that still have counterplay, and can't just decide you have less health now

[fathom aurora]

shouldn't it be "try to use a shield"?

[thorn robin]

Nope

[inner pecan]

If its sci fi and fantasy then yes you could just implement that cause its " SCI FI" lol and " Fantasy " Now you going off base.

[fathom aurora]

well, that's me all day then

sure, im off base when you're talking about different games

and mmos?

[inner pecan]

Different Games of the same Genre and same type lol. Mordhau is basically Chiv 2 but better with lower graphics

Mount and Blade but with realism

a bit

[fathom aurora]

i'd put m&b on the more realistic side over chiv

[brazen olive]

Me when I chamber a couched lance with my fist:

[inner pecan]

MMOS like some of the survival medieval games that never implemented arrows being blocked by swords lol

[fathom aurora]

you can? lol, nvm I guess

[brazen olive]

Lmao in warband at least

But there are lots of nice realistic mechanics like momentum based damage

[inner pecan]

They still havent fix that?

[brazen olive]

Well they're obviously not working on warband anymore

[fathom aurora]

that's on them. a lot of games balance on rock/paper/scissors type gameplay, or holy trinity groupings. Not many have a system where every weapon can fight every other weapon

[thorn robin]

👉💰💺🤡

[inner pecan]

Yeah sadly but still fun regardless.

[thorn robin]

🪓 ☢️🪨💯

[brazen olive]

Bannerlord still looks like a game in beta to me, regardless I've never played mount and blade for the multiplayer anyway

[inner pecan]

Honestly you should its fun asf. Especially when you get massive player battles that clans do is fun

[brazen olive]

Not really fond of clans and the MP does look like insane archer spam

I will try it eventually though

[inner pecan]

No clans host it and anyone can join in. Hell they beat the record for having 650 players in 1 match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwAkHz5vDK4&ab_channel=Benoni

this was 2 months ago

[brazen olive]

My PC is weeping just thinking about running all that shit

A big appeal of m&b for me though is the RPG mechanics and the campaign map, as well as the SP mods like perisno

Generally I'd prefer chiv combat if it's pvp

[lilac jacinth]

Let’s replace archer with the peasant class, bard, and wizard

[brazen olive]

Replace? I'm good

Add those though absolutely especially bard

[lilac jacinth]

Who?

[brazen olive]

Hmm? I'm saying I would like those (maybe not wizard in this setting lol) but still wanna keep archers

[lilac jacinth]

Asked

[brazen olive]

Mean 😭

This is an open forum for discussion 😔

[late forum]

when no archer mode

[floral compass]

i dont understand why people get so pressed about a no archer mode, there is an archer only mode surely it would only be fair for a melee only mode?

[shrewd hemlock]

excuse me my player base is quite large thank you

[late forum]

Because people are sensitive over archers and any thing to with them, you can’t tell them anything or your just wrong.

[brazen olive]

They certainly are 😉

Idk one person that actually wants or enjoys the volley mode, btw

[late forum]

i was talking about archers lol

[brazen olive]

I know, and I was talking about melee :)

[thorn robin]

That’s called LTS

[floral compass]

that's not true at all unfortunately

neither is FFA

[thorn robin]

Wdym there are no archers in those modes, only free kills

[floral compass]

https://tenor.com/bAUPL.gif

so true

[vagrant eagle]

probably because archers in low populated games are less favored to change any outcome or do much, espesically when the map is a lot shorter and not as open in limited modes

[floral compass]

can you explain that to me like im 4 years old i genuinely dont understand and i feel really stupid now

[thorn robin]

In all honesty a no archer mode would probably make little to no difference, and then everyone would move their hate to something else

[floral compass]

it might not make that much of a difference im not sure but i feel like it wouldn't be too hard to code in

and it would only bring benefits i feel like

[thorn robin]

No probably not, but I think there are more important issues like the millions of bugs that need to be squashed

And fuck, private server tools, so then folks can just make their No archer servers right then and there

[brazen olive]

Will you join my chiv 2 rp server

[floral compass]

that'd be nice, i remember bannerlord took around 2-3 years for private servers to come out and it took so long that the multiplayer scene effectively died

i hope that's not what happens with this game

[thorn robin]

I will troll on it like how I trolled Dukes of York Mordhau rp

[brazen olive]

Lmao I remember watching someone crash a "wedding" in mordhau rp

[thorn robin]

Yiiiiiikes

Foppish RP Wedding GONE WRONG

[brazen olive]

https://youtu.be/zeuIPh61V3w

[thorn robin]

Oh yeah this video LMAO

This was on that one server that had a day and night cycle but it made everything look doo doo in terms on lighting

See now I would just organize server takeovers by creating a cult of funny outfits

[late forum]

Ffa is littered with archers

[late forum]

Won’t know until it happens

[thorn robin]

Oh sure oh sure oh sure pal whatever you say good buddy roger that dodger roger 10-4 good man for sure

[atomic stratus]

Littered with free kills*

[late forum]

sure

[floral compass]

i dont know about that one

unfortunately some of these archers know every way to abuse the mechanics of the game

also they usually walk around in like groups of 4-5 plus the people that go out of their way to team with them for some reason

[thorn robin]

Lol people get bullied by archer gangs

No doubt they’re led by @brazen olive and @amber warren

[late forum]

once more archer learn spatial awareness, we are all doomed

[floral compass]

the most dangerous archer is the one that learns to look behind themselves

luckily most 64p archers do not have that skill

[atomic stratus]

I dunno, here on the west side, archers are usually KOS

[inner pecan]

Archers typically are KOS on FFA servers but yet again they dont usually last 5 seconds out of spawn unless its Galen Court Map

[amber warren]

Stop giving out my secrets

[swift cobalt]

that's the point. It'd have similar impact to what banning sniper did when shounic tested it in tf2, you're just playing the exact same game but with unnecessary and unfun pressures reduced, avoiding discouraging people from participating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFXGwko225k&feature=youtu.be

did it change winrates much? no
did it change who died to what? not very much

all it did and all playing with no archer would do is simply let people have a more relaxed chivalry experience with no downsides for people who like the interactive portion of the game.

[vagrant eagle]

Oh boy 🍿

[swift cobalt]

if removing archer seems to change nothing about the game does that not say something about the merit of archer in the game?

[brazen olive]

I like the comparison, archer and sniper are the highest skill classes in their respective games after all

[swift cobalt]

not as long as projectiles exist in tf2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqlOTEtGhQk
as far as class skill requirements go at high level play it's probably demoman > scout = soldier > medic(but game sense higher preferably) > offclasses in 6s and in highlander it'd be demoman > sniper > spy > flank(scout, soldier) > heavy > the rest of the classes kind of don't matter that much even though they do

human deathmatching skill cap has a lot to say for how much further demoman can be pushed in particular because it just has a simply unconscionable amount of peak theoretical damage output

technically the solomon video doesn't show off the current skill level of 6s invite which is quite high/b4nny has been 2nd or 3rd place for like 3 or 4 seasons now which is nutso, but solomon made primo content with top tier editing and not a lot of that exists for tf2

[brazen olive]

Twas a joke

[thorn robin]

I don’t care about TF2 that’s a different game

You buy hats in it

It’s a hat simulator

[sharp root]

It legitmately is

One of my flatmates purely uses it to trade hats

Doesn't play the game

He will buy a $60 game purely to get a hat if it had cross promotion with TF2

[thorn robin]

You also missed the part where I said that making a separate game mode where there are no archers is silly, think it’s a waste of dev time. Rather have them allow for private server functions so everyone will be satisfied

Personally I’d like to see the return of Black Knight

[inner pecan]

Uh oh we back too comparing FPS games to Medieval games lol

[inner pecan]

Honestly it was a waste of time for them to even do Volley Mode too. Instead of actually fixing the game they wasted time on a goofy game mode when they could of done what the community wanted like Chicken Ball.

[thorn robin]

Hey man I never said I liked Volley

That shit is poo

[inner pecan]

Never said you did

[thorn robin]

Yes you did

I know you did I know you are out to get me

[inner pecan]

Only on that i can do GIFS and you cant lol

[thorn robin]

DAMN YOU

[inner pecan]

But honestly yes they should remove Volley Mode and input Chicken Ball

[swift cobalt]

A no archer mode is a single config file line. It's the least waste they could do for a mode.

[inner pecan]

I would rather have Chicken Ball

or Zombie Mode

[swift cobalt]

those take effort though

all they have to do is change the archer class's multiplier to 0 like how they have a .125 multiplier for engineer

[inner pecan]

But it would be what all of the community is asking for

Instead of focusing on a handful of people they focus on Majority which want Chicken Ball, CTF, Zombie Mode etc what people have been asking for.

And remove Volley

[swift cobalt]

the fundamental issue at play isn't different.
Sniper play occurs at a range at which other combatants aren't present or relevant as does archer's effective range. It doesn't matter if combatants have guns or axes if they're ineffectual at reaching the "sniper".

[thorn robin]

Special game modes should be far more interesting than omitting a class or consisting only of one class. Leave that to folks who can customize their server

[swift cobalt]

of course there's bad spots for a sniper, but there's also badwater second and third(boiler sightline), upward every single point on the map, etc.

tf2 is also actually comparatively better off due to the existence of spy

[inner pecan]

Your picking one thing out of the FPS game where i could do the exact same thing on peoples complaints as well. Your not comparing the entirety of the game but focusing on 1 aspect. You cant compare FPS to Medieval lol

Most goofy logic ever

If you gonna compare use an actual Medieval game lol

[swift cobalt]

what is goofy about the significant negative presence of effectively unavoidable damage from outside of your maximum relevant combat range?

tf2's sniper is just more oppressive in the fact that entire segments of common maps simply don't get used because sniper exists

[inner pecan]

Alright im gonna take that aspect to an FPS game then. COD if my riot shield blocks bullets then my guns should too.

Unavoidable damage

I have to hide to avoid bullets

See how stupid this can get

[swift cobalt]

it sounds like you're being clueless as fuck. Outside of sniper rifles in cod you're almost always in deadly combat range even with smgs outside of the biggest most open maps

[thorn robin]

Here we go again

[swift cobalt]

and if you're talking about snipers as a problem then that's just another game with the same problem I complained about

[inner pecan]

Again thats why i said you cant compare FPS to Medieval lol

[swift cobalt]

also sometimes brain damage occurs and the smgs outrange rifles

[swift cobalt]

I don't see how you undermined my comparison whatsoever. COD has a set of guns. The sniper rifles are outliers again. Rifles, smgs, etc. basically play in the same range arena and have direct interactivity moreso than snipers do.
In TF2 you have a bunch of mid-range weapons which interact within the mid to close range, and then sniper is long range.
In Chiv 2 you have exclusively close to mid range(spear is as close to mid-range as exists), and then you have archer who simply exists outside of the normal combat range as well.

idk why you even mentioned riot shield outside of bloating your dogshit answer

cod's fix to snipers were to make maps too small to snipe or to extend the range of other weapons so far that snipers don't have a range advantage anymore, removing the asymmetry of the combat. Of course, it's not like that is completely gone, and that's a uniquely FPS solution which can't be applied to chiv.

[inner pecan]

Guns can reach other guns. No matter the design of the game, you can take pistols and use them as snipers its not hard. SMG's, MG's etc can do the same thing. Why? Cause they are in an era where combat has changed. Medieval Sword Play and Archery. No Guns Nice.

Wonder why it cant be compared thought it was simple but i guess not

[swift cobalt]

the "problem being addressed" of excessive combat asymmetry based on maximally effective or only relevant combat range is the same though

[inner pecan]

Alright then so the complaints i see is that people dont want to use shield to block arrows. Well If you want to block bullets you need a riot shield. Both are same issue. You dont use shield its considered free damage. So they gotta get rid of guns

[swift cobalt]

so because you can 1 in 10 times get a lucky spread which enables your pistol to outsnipe a sniper you're going to completely ignore the obvious statistical asymmetry provided by the accuracy relevant to the effective combat range outside of when they make broken anomaly weapons?

[swift cobalt]

https://youtu.be/RBUbQShErI0?t=146 davyjones should've brought a shield idk what to tell you

[inner pecan]

You never done it? There are plenty of clips people doing it.

[swift cobalt]

I've sniped people with inappropriate weapons in plenty of games. It's not the norm, and with millions of players you could find clips of whatever you want basically.

[fathom aurora]

FPS is a bad comparison imo. The fundamentals of "blocking damage" for every weapon is to take cover, regardless of distance

[swift cobalt]

oh and at 2:38ish that guardian really should've just not gotten shot in the head. He should've brought a shield I guess.

[fathom aurora]

if you could block an smg with another smg, but not snipers, that'd be comparable

[inner pecan]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oaQPZ8Tvygo They need to buff shield or remove nube tube i guess

[swift cobalt]

that's the thing, in a cod game outside of extreme situations and in fps games in general it's not "free damage" because you've entered mutual combat upon target acquisition.
You aren't in mutual combat with an archer.

[inner pecan]

This is why i say you cant compare FPS games to Medieval games lol.

[swift cobalt]

just because the "damage is forced by getting shot" doesn't mean that it's "free" in the way that you can't enter mutual combat with an archer normally in chiv 2, for example

assuming the archer isn't drooling of course

most are

[inner pecan]

Actually i got you. Find me an online medieval game like Chiv that blocks arrows with swords.

[swift cobalt]

timed parry in mordhau

[inner pecan]

Counter Chiv has it nice lol

[fathom aurora]

this argument is just as useless

[swift cobalt]

the fundamental principle is what I noted, extreme effective range asymmetry resulting in the ability to avoid mutual combat while still harming a target is just not a fun mechanic except for the person on the shooting end.

[inner pecan]

Why cause no other developer done it for a reason?

[swift cobalt]

pretty sure the window is longer in mordhau even if you use highland sword for comparison because of the fucked up netcode combined with arrow countering being on half counter windows

[inner pecan]

So if they actually fixed net coding it would be the same as Mordhau timing

Cause i will tell you this the counter window for arrows can actually be big. I have plenty of clips countering arrows at different swing times

[fathom aurora]

Moving the arrow parry to a small window at the start of block would be a bit better as it'd be more possible for people to actually react, since a lot of arrows hit you in around 200-300ms

and not lock you into an attack

[inner pecan]

I will say 1 thing i agree with and they should do it, is active parry should block arrows.

[fathom aurora]

that too

[swift cobalt]

idk the exact multiplier of windup to counter window, but the important bit is that even if they fixed the netcode the window is short enough to prevent countering on reaction if someone simply holds arrow as you approach. The projectiles aren't crazy fast in this game, but once the arrow is held there's no further tells as to release time outside of raw firing rate initial interval which you've just passed. https://chivalry.wiki.gg/wiki/Category:Weapons_(Chivalry_II) has what should be mostly accurate for windups at least

[inner pecan]

Cause i honestly always thought active parry did block arrows but apparently they dont and they should implement that

[swift cobalt]

I think there was a good video someone did using tf2 as an example to explain the "unreactable" distance and how that is affected by the use of visual vs audio cues because the human reaction time to audio is something like twice as fast

wonder if I can find it again

not that you can't counter under those circumstances, but you're essentially trying to read and it's borderline effectively rng and you just get to hope they hit your counter feint

[inner pecan]

With the Average Archer, they are predictable of when they release arrows, especially when they are panicking cause they will always shoot when they are able. I got clips for days on that

[inner pecan]

This for example for how long that counter window is and i know it can go further

[swift cobalt]

yeah that's how I was able to run at archers with katar and counter every arrow sometimes. It's just that the moment you have an archer with an IQ above room temperature we've got problems, and the class has potential to be damaging enough fun/interactivity-wise that maybe we shouldn't be balancing around dave and step bow, but they shouldn't be balancing around timmy's two cells either

[fathom aurora]

so is the average melee but it doesn't mean melee should have instant undreadable attacks

[inner pecan]

https://medal.tv/games/chivalry-2/clips/1fsYNe_1jhDCJc/d1337p1pjcCy?invite=cr-MSx2V0gsMTg2MjMxMTY4LA 0:14 a reaction counter

[inner pecan]

Crossbow is definitely unreadable since they never have stam drain and can aim for hours straight

[swift cobalt]

remember that's on the maul, and that that counter window isn't actually all that long. Also, in the second clip he had a massive tell in that he snapped to you before firing. That's the main tell pyros use for reflecting soldier's rockets in tf2 as well, for example. That's closer to a read even if you weren't actively trying to read that.

have to remember to give your brain credit for how well it handles those kinds of movement tells

[inner pecan]

I have clips for days on countering arrows and i its the most satisfying thing to do is to counter arrows to give you an edge in fights lol. If i die fuck it i die, i just go back and retry.

[swift cobalt]

it's definitely a regular thing to do often

it's just also not reliable in the way melee combat would be reliable if they would stop breaking input buffering over and over again

[inner pecan]

If i can find the clip the counter window for Maul is big but pyro deflecting rocket isnt all that hard especially for how slow they are. Unless they use launchers that give insane speed but no damage then who cares lol.

[swift cobalt]

the main thing to remember there is that rockets are "relatively faster" in tf2 because while the rocket itself is slow it's starting much much closer to the target, meaning the effective reaction window is similar

and then there's liberty launcher and direct hit which are just "lol, lmao"

the manmelter has the fastest projectile speed of any "stock" projectile in tf2 though

[inner pecan]

Thats why i wish for them to fix the game in terms of stuttering, major lag issues, hit registration issues etc. Every patch they do it gets worse and worse. Im at the point where im telling people im uninstalling in September when StarField comes out and go play Mordhau or Mount and Blade.

[swift cobalt]

yeah I care more about combat fixes than about having a no archer environment, but either would be enough for me to reinstall at least

archer is not a good straw to have on a camel already this burdened

and at the same time it wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't

[inner pecan]

Well also private servers would fix this issue also. If people want no archer mode then they can implement that in their own server.

I know no one wants Volley mode not even the archers lol

Never even played it cause i would sit for over half and hour not getting a match so i assume its a dead mode regardless lol

[swift cobalt]

the reason I got 8000 hours in of tf2 in spite of sniper and pyro existing while being a soldier player, for example, is that there was just enough good in that game to outweigh the downsides, but the increasing technical issues and decay of the game as well as the increasingly lack of tolerance I had for the tf2 comp community makes it so that if I go back even into pubs it's just so easy to have "little frictions" remind me why I stopped playing tf2.
the reason I uninstalled chiv 2 even though it could've been an 8000 hour game is because chiv 2 is a fun core system with so many little stupid frictions layered on top that it's a fucking miracle I even got past onboarding into the game 😂

I know I'm not tolerating the same shit for mordhau or mount and blade because neither game is actually better, only equal-ish at best

archer is just a particular point of frustration because it does a great job of highlighting a shitload of the other frictions with spawn systems, map design, etc. instead of just being a smaller friction like it should be

you could say archer's crime isn't being archer, its crime is being so good at everything which makes the game so bad

[inner pecan]

TF2 went down hill when they started their first new weapons you get from achievements. As being part of a competitive clan i was in that played even the original TFC, this was a disappointment for us and we just focused on our servers and map making.

[inner pecan]

Mount and Blade focus more on realism side so you see people run around with shields all the time and in big open maps you pray for the archers as they dead cause of cav.

[swift cobalt]

I can't say there were many great additions I'd agree.
Gunboats were a great addition. Huntsman is just good fun even if it's objectively worse than the rifle. Demoknight/shields are similar in being worse but fun in a good way. The Crusader's Crossbow is a very "you like it or you hate it" thing.
Kritz vs Uber is a fun thing, so kritzkrieg was a good add.
Quick Fix is a terrible addition because it eventually resulted in medics getting scout speed proliferated, bringing on the modern scout meta.

[inner pecan]

unless you play as Khuzat as horse archer but good luck landing your shots lol

[swift cobalt]

and something like the supermajority of all weapon additions were meh and didn't really do much for playstyles in an interesting way

wrangler just soaks too much damage. Fists of steel soaks too much damage. Sandvich is a good addition

guess I could just hop on whitelist.tf and make a list lol

[inner pecan]

I know when they started talking about releasing new weapons, the clans we talked too a lot from TFC started revert back to TFC. I still till this day prefer TFC over TF2.

[swift cobalt]

https://whitelist.tf/13849
here. I "whitelisted" all of the weapons I think were added which are "sufficiently fun" in that they offer different options or some form of shenanigans without making things aids for other players

not necessarily "better", but different

heavy gets slaughtered there because only natascha and tomislav are really different and both have had... problems over the years

[inner pecan]

I just dont like they kept changing everything.

[swift cobalt]

change isn't bad so much as the change for change's sake... which torn banner seems fond of as well

they just kept adding stuff without considering that it has to add to the game

[inner pecan]

Issue i have with TB. They promise things they dont uphold and dont speak of it, they dont fix the major issues but instead make them worse, no communication at all with the community besides ( Connect ) he the only one i seen been responding to things, dipping out last minute on Tournament rewards. Like the list goes on and if they are serious about making another game, count me out i aint buying.

Why buy another one of their games when they cant produce functional ones or even fix them?

[thorn robin]

Tl;dr

[serene widget]

there isnt arrow curve anymore

[inner pecan]

The Trail still exist but apparently at the " Start " there is something thats effected as said in the notes. If it only happens in the beginning then there isnt much influence but still should be removed.

Aim assist should no longer lead your crosshairs to players anymore either

So regardless when this patch goes through people gonna still say it exists

[serene widget]

That may be true but it shouldn't feel as bad

No more getting headshot immediately after jumping in a crowd of people by a lvl 10

[swift cobalt]

that bit isn't in patch notes. The projectile itself was what was affected by the addressed magnetism in the patch note, not the crosshair.
If they've also addressed crosshair magnetism they need to specify that, because that's a separate component of aim assist from the segment addressing the impact on the actual in-flight projectile.

[serene widget]

There is a ton of influence because it affects moving targets

So if you're running in a line, which most people are, the arrow is predicting where you will be on release and actually aiming there

It should be a huge nerf at the end of the day

Without magnetism, crosshair magnetism may actually be a detriment. Since most shots you want to lead on target if they're moving.

Interested to see how it looks. There were no controller archers in the playtest

[swift cobalt]

which then depends on behavior and distance, as within a certain distance the projectiles border on hitscan unless someone is on two arrow sprint or inputs a dodge or uses the rapier special

definitely going to have to see how the game plays with bullet magnetism removed before they do more though yeah

it's a shame they can't open up tests for more than people with an Epic key, because they're probably never going to have a test last full length ever again if that's the case still

[serene widget]

Maybe some of those controller archers will see their numbers drop enough that they decide to pick up and learn the rest of the game

Could be a positive experience for everyone!

[swift cobalt]

just use an optional steam beta track or something

[serene widget]

I assume it's cheaper to do it on one platform

[swift cobalt]

it has caused them several problems for the tests, being that:

1. Only Epic players causes population issues
2. means long-term players for the most part, so the lobbies tend to be so stacked that lower skill gameplay borders on nonexistence
3. means you don't get any testing where the players are actually clueless on obj for the most part
4. controllers just don't exist in any playtest

[inner pecan]

Im saying it shouldnt exist either.

[inner pecan]

Even with moving targets it doesnt comprehend the distance and speed of the target. Which is why i said it doesnt influence much. Your still gonna have the trail which people thought the arrow was homing which it wasn't, ( Like i been saying but people ignored until now, people see its a trail glitch ). Your still gonna get hit in the head in a crowd its not like your gonna be immune to getting hit by anything, it still happens. This change and them removing that " small " influence in the beginning, people are still gonna complain as if they didnt remove anything. Like i said in other threads, the complaints will basically stop till they remove archer.

[serene widget]

Some of the pc controller archers had tested it out and there is an optimal range for it. It would be mid-close range

But anything far away or too close they said it doesn't help much

The "small influence" you talk about is the difference between a headshot and a non headshot. Archers as they currently stand aren't that OP and aren't that annoying. What is OP and annoying is being headshot constantly by lvl 10 archers

The aim assist nerf will be huge for making archers not feel bad

[inner pecan]

Apparently from what people are saying aim assist on pc compared to Console isnt the same. So i would say wait till patch when you see console players experience it

[serene widget]

Your complaints about archer are more in relation to FFA I assume, which archer just simply shouldn't exist in in the first place

[inner pecan]

I dont complain about archer nor is it about FFA. The main complaint of them is they have " Free Damage "

No one even complains about Archers in FFA and they say its free kills

[serene widget]

It's free but so is hitting someone in the back with a GS overhead. I think just looking at the base classes archers aren't that impactful overall

I mean you look at "one of the best" archers overall, keeper. Guy sits halfway down the scoreboard most games

Try as hard as he does and they still are pretty weak compared to melee

Idk I have a hard time agreeing they're overpowered which some people (though I don't think you're necessarily saying this) claim. I just think they need to get rid of as much of the free damage as possible

Which I'm hopeful this change has done

[brazen olive]

Keeper is only the best by his own metrics (hiding near spawn, playing like a bitch to preserve KD, and using the eziest archer weapon)

[inner pecan]

I honestly wouldnt even say he best archer. He just knows how to hit from afar. His melee game play sucks but like i said before it is impressive regardless to see an Archer go with 60 kills and 1 death. Thats no easy feat. Which also is why i brought up that average archers suck and they are 90% to 95% ( probably higher ) of the archer population. Meaning your getting archers that barely hit any of their arrows, dont score well, always negative KD etc. But yet they want to make a class worse and make peoples experience worse with the class cause they dont like Archers.

[flint condor]

To clarify on this, the arrow in 2.9 will basically fire at where you are pointing and not move or adjust itself. We still use aim-assist to help with aim for Gamepad users. This aim assist is also used in melee attacks to help guide look.

[inner pecan]

Yeah from what your notes said at the initial start of it.

[serene widget]

As much as the guy is a troll, I will admit he is good at archer. Its just that the things you mentioned are optimal archer gameplay

[brazen olive]

Optimal warbow gameplay, certainly not for the other weapons

[swift cobalt]

hitting someone in the back with a gs overhead isn't free. It doesn't ignore defensive mechanics and requires positioning and timing to actually be able to do, and comes at risk of someone who isn't actually off guard not actually getting hit by the overhead.

You can be staring at an archer, put your block up, and take moderately less unstoppable damage instead of more. That's the qualitative difference.

archers remove the existence of a "clutch factor", the way you can pull off stuff at 1 hp in melee if you're just playing like a god

[serene widget]

Archers can only hit one player at a time and have limited defensive capabilities

Their max hit is determined by ability to headshot, which without aim assist magnetism is very skill based

I am okay with that personally

[swift cobalt]

yes, they're balanced to have a reduced maximum theoretical output and to be vulnerable if they get too greedy on positioning because they're a fundamentally poor design, not because they're overpowered. They're "the kind of character you can only balance by giving bad numbers"

[serene widget]

But how else would an archer be designed

It seems like the reasonable and correct compromise

[swift cobalt]

you can't really other than actually making archers an optional experience... which is a one line configuration file change

it's really an, "either make archers optional or find a better way" situation, and it's not on us to find the better way

[serene widget]

I would be perfectly okay with a no archer mode and would play it. However it seems unlikely since it is 1/4 of the classes in the game and the maps are designed with archers in mind

[swift cobalt]

there are 4 archer classes. Don't forget ambusher.

[serene widget]

I don't think TB would go for that outside of a limited time mode

Truee

[swift cobalt]

torn banner couldn't make a real ambusher so they just made another skirmisher

[serene widget]

I do like the 50% backstab when it works

[swift cobalt]

devastator greatsword is the real ambusher class in this game

[serene widget]

Not ever downing people is super useful actually in comp as well

Since people turn into crawlers so often

[swift cobalt]

yeah it's honestly disgusting that the execution bonus applies to non-native weapons as well

you just grab a real weapon off the first man dead and play god for a bit

[serene widget]

That shouldn't be the case it should only be on native weapons

I agree with you there

[unreal patrol]

Id also like to point out that since archer arrow magnetism is in the patchnotes as being removed

That it actually exists currently @inner pecan

Despite how much you claimed it didnt.

[inner pecan]

Congrats only a tiny bit exists which still never effected the game.

[unreal patrol]

Never affected the game?

Tell that to the level 3 who just landed 5 headshots in a row

(hes just really good)

[inner pecan]

Again your complaining over something small that doesnt effect the game. I watched a lot of your streams and a lot of them was you raging cause people didnt support your claim on archer being an issue.

If it was such an issue then they would be here too but clearly not

[unreal patrol]

You know youre allowed to admit that you arent correct, you dont have to stick to something once proven wrong. They literally said it exists and are removing it because it's real and sucks to be on the receiving end of.

Furthermore, claiming that its not an issue is wrong too, since they are adjusting it. If it doesnt affect anything, why are they doing something? To appease the 5 people talking about it? Yeah because theyve been known to listen to the minority for feedback previously...

And no, a lot of my streams are not "raging cause people didnt support my claim", infact ive given up entirely on this game going anywhere but down and the next update is a whole lot of nothing. A decent map and a new arrow to get shot by.

[inner pecan]

" In addition to assisting look aim, a projectile’s starting rotation was found to also be influenced. This part of the feature has been removed in this update. "

Read the patch notes.

[unreal patrol]

I try to play other games a lot more because this one sucks, the only reason im still here is because my competitive friends really want me to keep playing on their team.

[inner pecan]

Starting rotation meaning it really had no effect at all and your complaining about getting hit by an arrow get over it lol

[unreal patrol]

I dont know about that one.

Not only does that not sound quite right, but most people haven't "gotten over it", they've stopped playing.

[final orbit]

Noob archers playing on console with overtuned aim assist being more dangerous than experienced archer mains on PC is a big issue

and thankfully it's being fixed soon

[unreal patrol]

Hopefully*

We didn't really get to test it in the test since almost no one if anyone was using controller.

Cause its a PC only test.

[final orbit]

fair point

[unreal patrol]

And on EGS which has poor controller support.

[flint condor]

????
The controller support is the same regardless of PC platform

[unreal patrol]

I dont think thats true.

Steam inherently has good support for all controller types.

I've had to hook some EGS games through steam to have my controller work.

I've had controllers just not work through EGS at all.

[flint condor]

If we're talking about different types of controllers, then yeah that's something I wouldn't personally know (I was reading that thinking you were talking about in the context of the game itself)

[inner pecan]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1848815666?t=1h59m17s 1:55:00 if you want i can link more

[unreal patrol]

Anyway, I have a lot of people just get frustrated with the game very quickly and its usually not one sole cause, and unfortunately those people just stop playing entirely. I know one friend who bought Chivalry 2 specifically to play with me and it was a miserable time getting shot and having the game not work properly, so they havent played it beyond session one.

[inner pecan]

That is just 1 of your streams

[unreal patrol]

Yes, it is. Very observant of you.

[inner pecan]

There is more like this where you said you dont rage at people for supporting you.

[unreal patrol]

I don't think I'm raging here.

Actually what youre looking at is something else.

[inner pecan]

On your streams yes to people that dont agree with you

[unreal patrol]

Right now you've seen one thing and assumed another.

[inner pecan]

Rest my case

[unreal patrol]

This was an affair with a friend of mine, not related to archers at all.

And I don't appreciate you using it to slander me as if im some angry goblin who lashes out at the people who support me.

The person in question is a good friend and it's not very nice of you to try and use it in this way, I was having a disagreement that spawned from a miscommunication.

This event is unrelated to the current topic and trying to use it to pamper your argument is dishonest.

If you want me to treat you with respect, you should try not acting this way.

If you'd like a tldr, I can provide it so you don't try to do this again in the future. @inner pecan

[brazen olive]

I for one am excited to not get beamed by default lvl 20 archers

[unreal patrol]

You're making it up get over it

Get shot and keep playing or else

[brazen olive]

😭

[unreal patrol]

I really wonder what has to happen in someones life to make them into an archer defender where they will spin any narrative to justify it.

[brazen olive]

I like playing archer, I just also want it to necessitate at least decent aim

I wish I had a controller to test it

[inner pecan]

huh shocked i didnt get timed out. Guess they are just after certain people

[brazen olive]

Anti-Ayla agenda

[lapis cipher]

well that happened

(you can laugh now)

[inner pecan]

sorry wasnt at my computer lol

[swift cobalt]

actually none of us know the actual degree of magnetism other than the people who can't say anything(connect and moonmoon), so it's literally just we're going to have to see how it feels after the update

[inner pecan]

They said what the degree it was and it was at the beginning. Unless your saying they lying about it which makes no sense to do. They actually went into detail on it in patch notes stating instead of it doing its own thing at the beginning it will fire at where you are looking at.

[swift cobalt]

did I miss that somewhere? It's not in the patch notes other than that the magnetism affected the initial rotation, not how much it affected initial rotation.

[inner pecan]

Honestly i guess im smoking something cause i could of sworn they explained that in the notes.

[inner pecan]

But to clarify what they mean on initial rotation is basically the start of the release of the arrow. Basically they stating the arrow is being influenced into a direction that your not aiming at. Since though its at the beginning it doesnt do much at all. But it shouldnt exist in the first place so yeah they should remove it. Even them by removing this like i keep stating, people will still complain about it cause this doesnt really do anything. People will still get hit by arrows and complain its auto aim. Then there will be more pointless threads of either trying to remove archers from game or nerf them even worse then they already are.

Now what they mean about the beginning of talking about Aim Assist entirely, im honestly thinking they mean the Aim Assist moving to targets. Thats the only other thing i can think of.

[swift cobalt]

the initial rotation over a long distance would affect significantly the trajectory of an arrow, even at midrange.
There are two basic components to aim assist, being, neither more important than the other:

1. bullet magnetism, redirection of initial trajectory or hitscan pathing to better align with what is expected to hit a player
2. aim/crosshair magnetism, redirection of the crosshair location itself

their implementation of magnetism doesn't necessarily have to work as you expect it to, and could easily be quietly working with some degree of prediction using low cost simple predictions similar to rollback implementations(assume same inputs are pressed until the time at which the arrow would achieve cross-section with the targeted player's currently predicted movement path), for example. We do not know the exact details of their bullet magnetism implementation.

crosshair magnetism is what you keep going back to, and I think it'll still be a significantly relevant issue given how often archers are ending up at pseudo-hitscan ranges if crosshair magnetism does its part to make microadjustments no human can to reactively handle stuff like dodge inputs and contortions due to swings

[inner pecan]

Should of been clearer on what i meant by it doesnt do much at all. It doesnt do much at all in ways of getting them kills. In sense it hinders them. So in reality this would be a buff for them when removing this. You are explaining everything that I know but at the same time if your talking about what could actually be broken from what has been shown in many videos that render aim assist OP would be the automatic movement of crosshairs to targets. Also we do know a degree of magnetism as they said it was " Found " meaning it was never meant to be implemented and from this stating it was at the initial meaning " beginning " there wasnt much implemented in there in the first place. So again its either they are lying about having more then what they are saying " Which wouldnt make sense to do " or in reality there really wasnt any and the little there was it actually made aim assist harder for long to mid range engagments.

[final orbit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qihL79jJX5s&t=140s

example of aim assist magnetism affecting the projectile initial rotation

2 minutes and 20 seconds in. set playback speed to 0.25 and pay attention to how the arrow doesnt fire towards the centre of the crosshair but way off to the lower left at the target that he's not even aiming at

[swift cobalt]

yeah that's pretty significantly off target

[inner pecan]

Your just repeating what i just said about what they meant lol

[final orbit]

i didnt read that wall of text you wrote lol

[inner pecan]

I mean the video helps explain to those who didnt know what they meant lol

if they didnt want to read what we were discussing lol

that recording tho is awful

[final orbit]

agreed

[atomic stratus]

Are archers winning?

[lapis cipher]

I think we're all losing at this point

[brazen olive]

I'm losing brain cells but it's okay I didn't have many to begin with anyway

[strange kelp]

if anyone is losing its AHHHHHHHHH. Damn. What an L 😂

[latent sedge]

How do I see the original message?

[lapis cipher]

it's pinned

[inner pecan]

Only in your imagination 🙂

[serene widget]

Tbf developers always downplay changes that they think will be controversial

It is my belief that the arrow magnetism is pretty significant from my experience in the game and seeing clips of aim assist in action so I am hoping it makes archer feel less oppressive in some areas

But we'll see

Either way not worth arguing about we'll see if it's a good change or no in time

[inner pecan]

I mean they did get rid of the crossbow issue. Its more of the major issues they cant fix and little ones like this are kind of brushed to the side. Which honestly is what they should do.

Fix major issues first then go after little ones.

[serene widget]

What is major/minor is mostly subjective but yeah I agree. I wouldn't mind if they went full force bug fix and then came back to the content creation afterwards

Even if it pushed back the next map by a month

They should have done that back on release I think we lost a lot of playerbase to bugs when they focused too much on map release cycle

[inner pecan]

Well you do get minor issues that become major issues. Like example at the moment for some odd reason these guys made it to where only NA East servers have FFA meaning anyone else that wants to play cant because apparently having a ping of 40 is actually 200 and you lag terribly. They have NA South Central servers all jousting servers that no one plays and are completely empty. We have people in our FFA discord complaining about this and even a thread up about it. But seems like they cant just switch up the servers for some odd reason.

[serene widget]

Connect said they're working on the jousting issue but idk what the underlying bug is that is making it take so long

[inner pecan]

All it takes is to change it to FFA and thats it. They have servers that already in FFA its not hard to copy the format into those servers. Honestly when they say " Under Investigation " its honestly they dont care cause its a simple switch of the mode.

[flint condor]

Not really a bug. Broader issue I can't get into.

[serene widget]

Understood, thank you for working on it

[dusk pulsar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/742783729088462909.gif?size=48&name=party_blob&quality=lossless

[thorn robin]

Archers ;pst

[pallid plume]

comes over

[unreal patrol]

Damn

I didnt even realize it was that effective

[final orbit]

It's disgustingly effective 😵

[unreal patrol]

I really wonder why people downplay it

[final orbit]

Cuz they wanna protect their shitter crutches

[unreal patrol]

"aaaah" is apparently not even an archer player

Yet they downplay it the hardest

[final orbit]

Very sus

Archer apologists are not to be trusted

[thorn robin]

Petition to separate skirmisher into its own class

[thorn robin]

My response to all anti archer arguments

[strange kelp]

You could seperate it easily by just deleting the other two

[thorn robin]

Modmins deleted my compelling argument video essay

The fuck is their problem anyway

[pallid plume]

Damn, years of academy training thwarted by opposing opinions

[amber warren]

[minor hollow]

Wtf

[final orbit]

Implying archery takes years of training

[lapis cipher]

only in real life