ik-2

[marsh elm]

Implying it's been shipped

[devout current]

Anyway, really happy that IK 2.0 is now finally out. ^^
How long has it been in beta? Since like February?

[marsh elm]

Delay-labs

[oak pendant]

Yeah, been in soft-release live compatible mode for a long time. That sounds about right

[devout current]

Well, I still want them, sadly they just aren't in stock.

[marsh elm]

Not even lack of stock, i bought some crap from them 3 months ago and it was only shipped this week lol

Logistics go brr

[devout current]

Yeah that's sadly the case :/

[oak pendant]

If you get a chance to get some though, I can highly recommend them

[devout current]

Yeah, I still use my old 2.0 with the Track Strap+. They are really heavy and big 😅

Also the dongles are just terrible for them, so great that with the Tundra Tracker Dongle you only need one.

[wild trench]

Can anyone recommend leg/upper arm straps?

[silver geyser]

I don't use a Xbox Kinect for full-body tracking but would folks who do be able to utilize more tracking points now

[steel ocean]

@oak pendant is this from what we were talking about last night?

[oak pendant]

Sort of, that was the feature that caused the freeze on tracker data refresh to be needed

Btw, the fix I discussed made it in to release

[marsh elm]

There is a beta for the kinect2vr that supports the new points

They emulate vive trackers so it should work as normal

[silver geyser]

Cool

[oak pendant]

so if you don't use that option, using trackers with poor connectivity should be as good as before the ~May11th (or whenever it was) update

[steel ocean]

Okay I'll give it a shot, thank you!

[oak pendant]

lmk if it's fixed for you

[devout current]

Hey Kung, you got your own Sticker now xD

[oak pendant]

haha!

[plucky bronze]

Look what it's done to this world

[hot fulcrum]

xD
put -90 on rotation.

[lethal light]

Hmm.... It looks like the full-body-tracking page has not been updated on the website. Is there any eta on when that will reflect the IK-2 changes for all those that have not been paying attention to this channel?

[devout current]

uhhh, I haven't seen any bug reports about that

ohh :c
All the totally secret branches from Kung are now dead, RIP.

[hot fulcrum]

yeah....if need to test something, need to make from scratch based on 1201 so makes sense delete once before start over on new patch anyway.

[marsh elm]

So ik 2 is official

Will this channel stay in the development category, or be moved to the general avatar ones? 🤔

[harsh lagoon]

its still being worked on so probably here

[hot fulcrum]

it will stay here as discassion yesterday at least for while.

[carmine gate]

oh, this is the white paper terrifying maths channel now, I see.

[lethal tulip]

so ah...is there ever going to be an update that fixes the view point dropping when doing literally anything that involves bending over, sitting down, etc.

[carmine gate]

using lock head should fix that?

[lethal light]

or lock all

[lethal tulip]

wut. wheres that?

[carmine gate]

quick menu > settings > tracking and ik > lock behavior

[lethal tulip]

oh ok. just didnt say lock head on it i guess.

[marsh elm]

lock deez

[lethal tulip]

no, dont do it.

[marsh elm]

I'll have to measure myself lol
Been using the same measurement for like 5 or 6 years already, and ik 2 wants accurate height 😩

Prob been wrong for ages already

[mild parcel]

What does IK stand for?

[lean badger]

my issue with one avatar floating while t-posing (which necessitated use of playspace moving) , seems to now have been fixed on live

[lean badger]

no. it is not. apparently it's fine the first calibration after startup

so i calibrate again and i float

i'll make a video later

seems i only float on re-calibrations

re-calibrating by changing avatar measurement, for instance, does not make me float

interesting

[final raven]

Since like late Feb, it literally came out around my birthday so was kind of like a b-day present~ ^^

[paper olive]

is there a way to disable walking animations with the new IK update?

[devout current]

Sadly not, I made a toggle for that on my Avatar because of this.

[paper olive]

that sucks

[boreal scroll]

um, im using full body and since the ik 2.0 update i noticed there is a lock hip lock head and lock all in the vrchat setting menu but is there a way to unlock the hips at all ingame ? my hips on my avatar are stuck in one pose and dont move in full body tracking and i cant figure out how to unlock it, all 3 of my trackers are showing up

[drifting ivy]

so i use my old Vive Controllers as trackers for my feet and with the IK 2.0 update it no longer works! the tracking balls appear like normal but dont get assigned to any bone when i press the triggers, only the tracker on my hip works as intended

[boreal scroll]

is it an animation that toggle these 2 things only to stop the walking animation fully ?

[timber grove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWDEMXrJPp4

Check this out.

[devout current]

You can't toggle those sadly

[vital inlet]

im having issues where vrc doesn't calibrate at all, it makes me halfbody every time

[drifting ivy]

x2

[vital inlet]

came here to say the same thing. did you get a fix?

[vital inlet]

no!!

ahhh

😭

helpppp

[rotund vessel]

Mann so how long did this beta exist lol

[vital inlet]

too long

[rotund vessel]

3 months

oops forgot to turn off ping sorry

[terse kestrel]

np

[rotund vessel]

College semester started with IK2 beta, and ended with this being live and me graduating 👌

[vital inlet]

im stuckkk idk how to fix my issue

same. would be great to get some help

tried switching back to legacy but it still wont let me calibrate

same

[oak pendant]

1. Ensure that you have your User Real Height set to your actual height. This is an option in the quick-menu settings area. 2. If your VRChat install folder has ever touched improper files, do a full folder clearing reinstall https://help.vrchat.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408235200403-How-can-I-completely-reinstall-VRChat-

Even if you haven't touched improper files, a reinstall might be a good idea

3. As a troubleshooting step you can try starting with this launch option increasing the value. The default is: --calibration-range="0.6"

so try increasing to maybe --calibration-range="1.0"

however, if it's really not finding a tracker within 60cm of the expected location, you must have some serious issues with your scaling (which is why number 1. Ensure User Real Height is your IRL height is the first thing to try)

Btw this is not about matching your scale to the avatar, even if the avatar looks like it's the wrong scale, you must use your accurate IRL height in the User Real Height setting

there are other ways to adjust the avatar's relative scale

[final raven]

@oak pendant Any chance on addressing the hands near shoulders issue now that we're post-release?
https://vrchat.canny.io/vrchat-ik-20/p/elbow-behavior-while-hand-is-near-or-on-the-shoulder
https://i.gyazo.com/c25711758d4aff90d7f8f6c682423a2a.mp4

lol didn't mean to remove the embed for the video...

[devout current]

Yeah I hear a lot of people complaining about that currently 😅

They all like the new IK but they really hate what the arms are doing in when they are near the shoulders.

[oak pendant]

That will likely have more iteration yeah, but if you put your hand behind your shoulder pointed forward like that there isn't really any predicted pose that makes sense

But there are possible ways to improve it some, so yeah will likely improve

[final raven]

Alrighty~ good to know~

[lean badger]

my issue that my avatar floats on recalibration when calibrating (note: using --legacy-fbt-calibrate). As far as I can tell this is the only avatar affected for me

[final raven]

Have you tried disabling legacy calibration? 🤔

[lean badger]

not yet, but i assume it's not going to make much difference, since the avatar becomes pinned to my head

or rather it's not going to be noticeable/problem will be absent

let's test my theory, though

might be that the translation is there, but then gets undone by said head pinning

[lean badger]

not a problem with non-legacy calibrate, as I expected

and i still prefer legacy calibrate. at least in the absence of a mirror. plus the whole feet thing that was mentioned above. despite calibration saving i sometimes will recalibrate after avatar switch even, to make little details like that feel right. mostly only in extreme cases, however

[oak pendant]

So you've confirmed that this doesn't happen on other avatars? You mentioned it's only that avatar, so you tested others and it was ok?

[lean badger]

of all the ones I have tested thus far, this is the only one that exhibits this behavior. if I find another one I'll say

[oak pendant]

Ok, interesting. If you have a public avatar id that shows this behavior that would be good to know

[lean badger]

it started happening towards the latter end of ik beta. mayne last two-three updates before going live? (didn't have time to report it earlier)

[oak pendant]

Something else you could test, if you use the "reset avatar" option in the action menu on AV3 avatars then does a subsequent calibration work properly?

Hmm... I can't think of anything in the last few updates that would affect this, but that may turn out to be useful info thanks

[lean badger]

I suppose it should. Let me try... No. It seems to persist after resetting my avatar. Toggling avatar measurement works.

I might be able to locate a sample version of the avatar that is public.

Yes, the public sample has the same issue. Do you want an avatar ID?

[oak pendant]

Ok if you can let me know, even though this is a single avatar issue, it might be good to make a canny for it https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20 and post the id there

it'll be hard for me to find later in discord 🙏

[lean badger]

ok

[oak pendant]

you can link to the discord hosted mp4s your posted too in there

[ionic mica]

Hey Kung, thank you for all the good work and also the communication with the community.
It seems as though my primary avatar, and friends avatars have an issue where if you look down it's easy to see inside the body of the avi.
Is there a configuration in settings to prevent this?

[devout current]

Are you use lock head?

Or lock hip?

[ionic mica]

Lock hips ^^

I heard that's the better setting for dancing

[oak pendant]

Yeah DrBlackRat has the right idea that using a different lock setting would help this. Probably Lock Head

And yeah Lock Hip is best for dancing because it tends to give the best appearance from an outside perspective

but if you're having issues with your first person view, trying Lock Head is a good idea

[ionic mica]

Alright, thank you!

[lean badger]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/avatar-floats-during-calibration-on-ik-20-when-using-legacy-fbt-calibrate

sorry about wall of text, hah

[oak pendant]

Haha don't be sorry, wall of text is much preferred to a post like VRChat broke my stuff won't work, plz fix

thanks for the report!

In the meantime, I'd recommend the workaround of double-toggling the Avatar Measurement button instead of the calibrate button for now

[silver sorrel]

So uh,,, like is there a tutorial on how IK 2 works now? I saw the video displaying all the new features however I'm completely lost on how us FBT users are supposed to use it

[lean badger]

yeah. that, or using playspace mover, or calibrating in another avatar all can workaround the issue

[oak pendant]

There's a docs page here: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/ik-20-features-and-options

[zenith gust]

Is there a troubleshoot documentation for IK 2.0?

[oak pendant]

#vrchat-general-1 message

[zenith gust]

Any documentation specifically for avatars? I seem to be having an issue with an avatar I made. I'm assuming it's related to my bones, but I'm not sure. When I use any of the locks, my tracking doesn't work properly, mainly with my head.

[oak pendant]

If you have a physbone directly on the head, that is known to mess stuff up (even if the head bone is in its ignore list)

This can be fixed by parenting any hair bones to a secondary hair root that has the physbone on it that itself is parented to the head

[zenith gust]

Not in this case. I made sure to give each chain that needed physbone it's own root bone away from the IK bones

[oak pendant]

In what way does the head tracking not work properly? Do you have any screenshots?

[zenith gust]

One moment.

[zenith gust]

With head locking:

Second screenshot is me almost fully rolling my head left

[oak pendant]

This does look the like the physbone issue, how about the ears?

[zenith gust]

Hair, ears, and cheeks, all have their own root bone and no script is on the head or any other IK bone

[oak pendant]

Hmm then it's an as-yet unknown issue that looks pretty identical to the physbone issue. My troubleshooting advice would be to double check that no physbone has any humanoid bone anywhere as a child in its* hierarchy on the avatar. Next troubleshooting step would be to remove all physbones on a copy of the avatar and upload and see if that fixes it for you

[zenith gust]

I'll run a fine-toothed comb through the avatar to double check. Appreciated.

[oak pendant]

good luck, if it still happens after totally removing all physbones then it's definitely an unknown issue and would be good to document your findings on canny

[zinc flicker]

Sorry but does anybody know why my feet are tracking but my hip tracker is not; I can see all my trackers when I'm calibrating but it only ends up tracking my feet and my hip one does not move anything. I do not have any mods installed, etc.

[keen current]

i think the new update broke the gestures for quest 2 controllers

[oak pendant]

What kind of trackers do you use?

[zinc flicker]

3 vive 2.0's

[oak pendant]

Is your User Real Height setting in the quick menu set accurately to your IRL actual physical height?

[zinc flicker]

Yea I'm 5'7 irl and my user height is set to 5'7.

[oak pendant]

You could try messing with the calibration range launch option

this is the default --calibration-range="0.6" Maybe try increasing it to --calibration-range="1.0"

Just in case, do you know how to use the launch options?

[zinc flicker]

i do not.

[oak pendant]

In your Steam library, right click on vrchat and select properties, in the "GENERAL" tab that pops up at the bottom is an area labeled "LAUNCH OPTIONS"*

only spelled correctly 😅

in there paste this: --calibration-range="1.0"

[zinc flicker]

I will try that, thanks so much for the help <3

[oak pendant]

Good luck, you can try increasing the "1.0" number further if it still fails the internal max is 3.0 but at that range it'll pick up extra trackers across the room if you had them turned on and didn't want to use them

If increasing it doesn't work then something else must be wrong

[zinc flicker]

it works woo. you're a life saver

[oak pendant]

Awesome glad that helped 👍

[thorny atlas]

please roll back this trash update

my hip is controlling my thigh and setting my "REAL HEIGHT" like you all propose puts my feet in the wrong place half way up the legs

thanks for listening -signed literally everyone thats used to actual IK

[thorny atlas]

LMAO that works but i just tried it and then took my trackers off

the hips dont even move remotely like IRL

im throwing my spine around for a inch of movement in VR

im done for now ill play in a week

thanks i guess

[oak pendant]

Your hip tracker may also not have calibrated. I'd recommend following the advice I posted above here: #ik-2 message

[thorny atlas]

k so it doesnt work for people that are 5'6"

that seems to be the problem im talking to my taller friends and it all works fine for them but no matter the setting it behaves like trash

[zenith gust]

I'm 5'6" and my hip tracker doesn't have issues

[fossil niche]

My trackers won’t work

[thorny atlas]

look how little it moves at all when i throw my spine around and when i tilt the tracker it lifts the avi off the floor and stuff

wild

this is using "height" on 5'6" size

[oak pendant]

Yeah that appears like the tracker did successfully calibrate to your hip. If you put your controllers/hands on your hip when you move your hip do you observe the controllers moving more than the avatar's hip?

It appears like it bound to the hip, but it could have activated chest tracking and not hip tracking, though that's very hard to do, there's a pretty tiny range where it would pick up on the chest and not the hip

[thorny atlas]

barely. maybe the old IK was really overcompensating the hips?

Got too used to old ik?

[oak pendant]

The hip movement should be very similar to legacy if all the trackers bound

If you'd like me to troubleshoot could you record a video moving your hip with your main menu open? That will cause your tracker ball stay visible

It's also possible for me to see what points are getting bound by enabling debug logging and sending a log

[thorny atlas]

the legs also jiggle a when standing still

[oak pendant]

If it looks like the legs are doing auto-footsteps then maybe one of the legs failed to calibrate

Otherwise, it's possible for the legs to be dragged out of position by the hip tracker, it takes priority

I'm 5'7" so I doubt it's a problem specifically with your height. There was a time in beta when we had issues for very tall users but those issues were resolved

[keen current]

im jus still tryimgnto figure out why my gestures arent workimg at all

[thorny atlas]

how do i enable log?

[oak pendant]

I'd say 1. ensure that you set the User Real Height to your IRL height, and keep it set that way. 2. try increasing the calibration range launch option, maybe to --calibration-range="1.0" 3. double check with the legacy toggle that it actually does behave differently. 4. record a video with your tracker balls visible for trouble shooting. 5. use the --enable-ik-debug-logging launch option and submit a log

[oak pendant]

--enable-ik-debug-logging will do that

[thorny atlas]

alright

[tepid sentinel]

i feel when i click lock hip sometimes it doest work

[oak pendant]

If it's lock hip, when you shake your hip tracker it can drag your head out of position

[tepid sentinel]

yea it doesnt work sometimes

when i click it, it wont follow my hip

[oak pendant]

So you select it but even if you grab your hip tracker and wiggle it with your hand you can't get it to pull your head out of position?

[tepid sentinel]

nope

head wont move an inch

[oak pendant]

Yeah, that sounds like it's not toggling properly, does the UI update to highlight it?

[tepid sentinel]

yea

it shows its in hip lock

but does nothing

[oak pendant]

Does the hip otherwise track normally?

[tepid sentinel]

i think its only folliowing my feet

[plucky granite]

Is anyone able to upload avatars with the new SDK? my content manager says they uploaded, but in game they won't show up

[tepid sentinel]

i see it in game though while calibrating tho

[oak pendant]

K was just gonna ask that

Do you have your User Real Height setting set to your accurate physical IRL height?

[tepid sentinel]

ive tried both but right now im in real height

[oak pendant]

Ok, yeah it's important that your real height is set accurately, the predicted area that it'll look for each tracker is based on that

[tepid sentinel]

it is

[oak pendant]

Though it may still be failing to find the hip tracker, the next troubleshooting step would be to try adjusting the --calibration-range= launch option

I'd recommend trying --calibration-range="1.0"

You can set this by right clicking vrchat in steam and selecting properties

[tepid sentinel]

?

[oak pendant]

Yep just like that

[tepid sentinel]

👍

ill let you know it usually works for about 15-20 min before it stops working

[thorny atlas]

i set the range to 1.0 and it binds every time now and i guess it works pretty okay but in a video you can see the leg shake i mention

[oak pendant]

Oh, working then stopping may be a radio frequency issue or something like that But still worth a try to mess with the launch option

[tepid sentinel]

how would i fix that

[thorny atlas]

thanks for the help kung

actually cracked replies

[oak pendant]

Ah I meant the large main menu, this one will cause your tracker balls to appear, though if it's working for you not necessary to take another video:

The leg shaking is due to it being calibrated just on the threshold of where the knee starts to bend

That would just be due to how you were standing during calibration

If you want to bring it away from that threshold so it doesn't ride the edge of starting the knee to bend, you could very slightly bend your knees during calibration

When you* stand normally after calibration it'll pull the leg just slightly tighter and likely solve the problem

[thorny atlas]

oki thanks

[oak pendant]

That's tough, did you previously have issue with your FBT totally dying after that amount of time?

The new system allows individual trackers to disconnect but keep on going with the remaining trackers

Before it would freeze up your tracking

[keen current]

have you guys seen the quest 2 issues at all recently?

[oak pendant]

Basic advice to mitigate RF issues would be to keep your dongles spread out from each other and away from things that would cause interference like a wifi router

[oak pendant]

I don't know about any Quest 2 specific issues

[keen current]

because the gestures arent working but i wonder if its just from oculus new update or something

[oak pendant]

Oh, I had heard something about that I think, though I don't know the details of the cause or a fix

[keen current]

hmm okay because ik its not working in vrc either

[oak pendant]

Oh.. you mean the Quest internal gestures? Like the finger tracking home-menu thing?

[keen current]

yeah? i think?

because i cant point thumbs up or in vrc i cant do all that and i cant do the the open hand all i can do is rock on or closed fist

[oak pendant]

Oh that would be different from the Quest internal finger tracking features

Yeah I think that might be a bug introduced with the changes to gamepad support maybe

those gestures are detected by what parts of the controller are in contact with your hand

But I don't know details about the issue

It looks like it may be related to this issue: https://feedback.vrchat.com/bug-reports/p/gamepad-interaction-ability-disappeared

[keen current]

damn i hope they can get that figured out because with me i do the metaverse rp stuff and having gestures is a big thing with combat rp and not being able to use the gestures because of oculus gamepad breaking the gestures just sucks yo

[oak pendant]

You could vote on, and reply there, if you vote it'll notify you as comments, updates happen with the issue

BTW on topic of Canny, we've decided to keep the ik-2 canny open even after release so if you have something that's specifically IK2.0 related please continue to post in this Canny: https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20

[hasty ferry]

Are we gonna get a toggle for shoulder tracking?

Elbow tracking solutions like using kinect, slimevr / haritora x all mess up with shoulder tracking, as the do rotation only + taking position from controllers

[rustic berry]

there is a launch option for it

[hasty ferry]

That I know, but you shouldn't have to do that lmao

[strong sundial]

It will most likely be an ingame option eventually. Just rn, Kung isnt allowed to add anything to the big menu until the ui 2.0 update. And the quick menu is already overcrowded

[hasty ferry]

Especially considering how common stuff like the haritoraX / SlimeVR are about to become

Makes sense

Any clues as to when said UI update is coming?

[strong sundial]

Nope

They havent really said anything

But with how many other updates/features are seemingly blocked behind it, I wouldnt be surprised if we get atleast a beta in the next few months

[hasty ferry]

That's interesting, UI has definitely been in need of a refresh

[digital grove]

Haritorax doesn't have elbows innit

[halcyon sail]

So if I'm reading #vrchat-general-1 message right... I assume that Vive Controllers (for as long as they identify as Controller) aren't compatible to be used as a full body tracker anymore? I'll have to uncripple myself somehow...

[oak pendant]

Yeah, though if they had been flashed to behave as a tracker they might still work. (flash your devices at your own risk)

[halcyon sail]

Guess there's one way to find out, then.

[final sphinx]

woah out of beta, less go

[hasty ferry]

not yet

I have the power of god

[static beacon]

Balls tracker

[halcyon sail]

Looks like flashing the Vive Controller device_class from controller to generic_tracker is working fine so far as an IK 2.0 tracker. The wands still have worth!

[oak pendant]

Glad that's working for you 👍 thanks for reporting back

[halcyon sail]

No problem. I have to really test it more, so if anything is weird, I'll bring it up.

[hasty ferry]

balls

ballsy

[halcyon sail]

But it looks... as expected, so.

[quaint fox]

I have tried everything I have seen here to get my fullbody tracking working with the new update short of recording a video or sending a debug log and it hasn't worked

[hasty ferry]

Shoulders are actually not broken usong a kinect anymore. Last time I tried the beta it was unusable, now it works well enough

they're not perfect but they were literally unusable before

[oak pendant]

Did you try everything here as well? #vrchat-general-1 message

[oak pendant]

Nice! There was an effort to make shoulder tracking work in a wider variety of situations

[hasty ferry]

It's not unuseably broken using a kinect now, so that's good

unsure about Slimevr stuff though

We'll take it as it comes

most people don't do elbows anyway

[tropic loom]

Any one else experience vive 3.0 trackers not working with IK.2

[azure zinc]

In what way?

[quaint fox]

I removed the option that changes calibration range and it worked, that is annoying it didnt work before and now it does, thanks for the help

[tropic loom]

Its only registering the feet. this also happened in the beta

[azure zinc]

#vrchat-general-1 @tropic loom go to that channel and check pins

[tropic loom]

ty

Ok i did that but now when I move my hip my legs lift up when im not moving my legs

The hip now tracks but basically the IK is not well done

Im sorry but the VRC development team needs to improve this. Its very buggy and doesn't work well at all and causes to many issues.

[digital grove]

Are you using some weird setup

6 point and 10 point work fine for me

[tropic loom]

no

[fiery plinth]

User real height is very important to be accurate now, also having your playspace floor being accurate.

[tropic loom]

just updated the playspace, real height is set.

Like im sorry but if i pay for 1000 + on tracking. i expect it go be accurate

any slight movement that is incorrectly made is unacceptable

and i know its a dev team issue

[halcyon sail]

I mean, it's not like you bought it from them... but what exactly is going on?

[azure zinc]

@tropic loom kinda funny…. if u cared this much why didnt u try the beta?

[halcyon sail]

They did.

[tropic loom]

I did

[azure zinc]

U make any suggestions?

[tropic loom]

I did via email

[azure zinc]

Cuz this is ur first time typing in this channel

No canny posts?

[tropic loom]

plus i work a 8.5 hour job

[azure zinc]

Cool I work 16 hours a day

[tropic loom]

i cant be on 24/7

[halcyon sail]

I mean, that's not relevant to troubleshooting... to clarify, you did end up getting all of your trackers tracking, right?

[tropic loom]

Exactly its not relevant

[oak pendant]

@tropic loom What are the specifics of your issue and what have you tried?

[tropic loom]

Yes they are all tracking but when on the IK beta. If i move my hips on a horizontal plane, my left or right foot lifts up completly from the floor ewven though my feet are not moving.

[tropic loom]

Everything your dev blog suggested

[oak pendant]

Do you wear your hip tracker in the center or to the side? Also was this an issue before IK2.0 for you (the foot moving in this way)

[tropic loom]

Yes it was a issue before and Ive tried it front, side and back

Ive tried it on either side as well

[azure zinc]

Is it all models or one specific model?

[oak pendant]

The hip will take priority over the foot if the tracked hip point is pulled away from it beyond the length of the avatar's bones

[tropic loom]

So what im hearing is that in order to have tracking on the new IK you have to sacrifice accuracy of your tracking?

[azure zinc]

🤔

[oak pendant]

It sounds to me like the mounting of your hip tracker is allowing some kind of tilt to cause the calibrated avatar hip bone to move in an arc when it also translates horizontally and vertically. This would drag the hip out of position

[halcyon sail]

I mean, I could consider keeping the skeletal integrity of your avatar/body proportions a type of accuracy here, but... does this happen on multiple avatars?

[tropic loom]

Yes it happens on multiple avatars of varying heights

[oak pendant]

You may want to look into a method to mount your hip tracker more rigidly to your body if it's able to flop in any way. Moving it against your spine mounting in the center of your back may be a good start

[tropic loom]

The thing that puzzles me is this does not happen when using the old tracking method

[oak pendant]

Ah this confused me then

[tropic loom]

Its not a mounting issue. The tracker does not rotate or / sway.

[oak pendant]

To get a better sense of what's going on I'd recommend recording a video in this world: https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_01025423-c339-4735-8af9-ba45cc9e46f2 while your main menu (not quick menu but the big static one) is open so that your tracker balls are also visible

[tropic loom]

I will try and record one soon.

[oak pendant]

Thanks

Oh, I should also add. If you're looking down when you calibrate it will bind the hip and feet trackers higher on the avatar (as the avatar sinks down when you look down) this could contribute to misalignment at the feet that depends on hip position. Looking precisely straight ahead when you bind it would solve that if that is the cause of your issue

[tropic loom]

TY, i did know that already though

[fresh wagon]

the new ik 2.0 is honestly garbage. the tracking points are way off the place they should be. like a solid 5-10cm

[oak pendant]

What do you mean by tracking point?

[digital grove]

🐰

[fresh wagon]

well. after setting the correct height, arm length etc. when i check the balls position they are correct. but if i touch my feet or hip or something else its like a solid 10cm to the right of the actual place. this was not a issue before

[oak pendant]

Yeah, that sounds like something is wrong, does your avatar jump over by 10cm when you pull your triggers to bind in?

Another thing to check, if you physically turn in your room (like IRL not joystick turn, the type of turn you'd have to be careful not to tangle your wire) if you turn a 360 like that do you observe the offset shift from side to side?

If that's the case it could be your tracker hardware, but I've never heard of a 10cm offset from that

most is around 2

Also other troubleshooting info, does this occur on all avatars?

[fresh wagon]

all avatars

when i sit down it shifts 10cm to the right

[oak pendant]

Does that bring it into alignment?

Or is it aligned when you're standing and it shifts out of alignment by 10cm when you sit?

[fresh wagon]

shifts and i have to recalibrate

[oak pendant]

Is it possible that your sitting posture is causing your hip tracker to shift when you sit?

If it requires a recalibration after you stand up this sounds like what might be happening

It may also be occlusion from sitting, if the tracker becomes completely untracked from occlusion then comes back it may come back with an offset (or fix an offset if one existed) when reestablishing tracking

[plucky dawn]

I think this is a base station problem, usually sitting down could cover the tracker and cause a drift, I have mine to the side and nothing blocks my trackers, only get drift when I'm wearing a sweater or shirt and it covers it a bit when I'm dancing, but I've never had to recalibrate. Are you on quest 2 possibly?

[devout current]

I've noticed that when I use my custom locomotion controller, my hands still "disconnect" a bit from my hand while walking. Wasn't that supposed to be fixed? This only appears to be an issue with custom locomotion controllers and not with any normal Avatar.

It's isn't as bad as it was in older betas, but it's still there

[oak pendant]

If you use animate hip that'll happen, happened in legacy too. At least I believe I was able to reduce it in IK2.0

[devout current]

Ah okay, thx for the fast reply anyways ^^

(I really hope you can give us a locomotion toggle at some point, so I can just throw out that entire custom controller 😅 )

[hasty ferry]

Just gonna report, this works great with a kinect, as expected 🙌
Better than legacy IK by a long shot

[devout current]

looks good

[timber grove]

Hybrid setups still work with this update, right? I’m slightly confused by the final topic under Tupper’s pinned message.

[devout current]

Are you also using the elbow points in VRChat?

[devout current]

Hybrid setups?

[timber grove]

Base station trackers with non base station tracked headset

[hasty ferry]

Using a kinect they're a bit hit or miss, they work fine when standing up, but not that well when sitting or lying down, which makes sense. VRCs elbow IK is good enough for mostly everything anyway

so I stick to not using them

[devout current]

I don't see any reason for it to not work

[hasty ferry]

But they do add something interesting

[tame pewter]

i didn’t have any issues with vive trackers and a quest during beta

[timber grove]

Ok that’s good to know

[devout current]

Ahh okay, makes sense ^^

[tame pewter]

someone did have issues using vive wands as feet trackers, but their tracker roles were set to Controller instead of GenericTracker

#vrchat-general-1 message

Currently anything reporting to SteamVR with the tracked device class of "GenericTracker" will be recognized, trackers that aren't will not. If you're using for example emulated tracker software or something else that hands the device over to SteamVR as a GenericTracker it should work. If you're trying to use tracked objects with the "Controller" TrackedDeviceClass it may not work. If you've lost a use case due to this make a post on canny with exact details of your tracker / vr setup here: https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20

[hasty ferry]

Knees are fantastic though

[devout current]

That always created problems though, not really a new issue with IK 2.0

[tame pewter]

well the message i responded to claimed it worked in legacy still

or well previous update

[hasty ferry]

Overall it's good to see that this update is good for basically anyone under the sun with FBT, not just vive people

[devout current]

Weird, from what I know it has always been a bit problematic

[devout current]

It's in general good for everyone, new arm IK, measure by height or by arm span and so on.

[hasty ferry]

Yeah yeah, don't even need fbt to get benefits

even though it's mainly for fbt

[devout current]

Also 256 bits parameter limit and the new Input API

[devout current]

Yup, but it was really needed

the old IK wasn't really good

[hasty ferry]

Oh yeah, definitely

Wingspan scaling was... not good

Touch your knees challenge (impossible)

[devout current]

It's the best solution in 3point, since there it's more important for your arms to line up.

[hasty ferry]

Yeah def

But for FBT it can get funky real fast

Depending on avatar proportions

[devout current]

That depends on how the proportions on the Avatar are, but yeah it can.

[hasty ferry]

Aaaaand when it comes to avatars, the majority of them aren't gonna match your proportions too well, some worse than others

[devout current]

I've seen a lot of avatar with wayyyy to long legs 😅

[timber grove]

My avatar is scaled to my real proportions. You should always take an extra day to make the avatar match your real body. It will greatly pay off in the end.

[hasty ferry]

Not everyone makes avatars

[devout current]

Yup, some people just can't do that sadly

[tame pewter]

the effort

[hasty ferry]

but finding a model that's close to you actual proportions is definitely noticeably better

• height scaling and bam

[timber grove]

mhm

[fossil niche]

How did u remove the option? Do you mind dming me what u did. I can’t use my trackers at all

[dusk anvil]

oh here's the ik 2 channel

yaay it wasn't deleted

[fresh wagon]

best way to find out arm length ratio?

and also how do i know if the calibration length that is default 0.6 is correct or not?

[open pike]

Can someone please explain to me why the waist location is STILL prioritised over the head (or if there is a way to change it)? it honestly makes no sense. Just makes you look stupid when sitting or laying down. Yes, it's much better than the original IK... but come on.

[marsh elm]

Lock head?

[open pike]

OMG I'm dumb... I redact my statement xD I didn't even see that... That being said... it should be default lol

[solar cloud]

Isn't that more for 3 point tracking?

[hasty ferry]

Yes, but in legacy that was the only option even for fbt

[open pike]

i take back what i said, i now love this update xD

[open pike]

i still want this too though

[devout current]

lmao

You have done a 180 in like 5 min xD

[open pike]

this is what happens when ur up at silly o'clock in the morning, try the update, don't look into it properly, get mad and log off to sleep xD

so apologies lol

[open pike]

Still does this though:
Not sure how it would be fixed, but should prioritise the arm going backwards rather than forwards at an impossible angle. not a huge deal but just wanted to point it out incase it can be tweaked a bit in future updates to stop stuff like that from happening. It's mostly when the hand is near the shoulder

[devout current]

Yep, that's known

If your hand gets to close to the shoulder it comes from, it will uhh yeah do that

[vital inlet]

it's realistic I swear I do that all the time /j

[digital grove]

Fix is to get elbow trackers

[devout current]

I mean it would be a fix for it yeah xD

[topaz elm]

Ik2 is cool but i miss the old walking animations already

[devout current]

Old walking animations?

[topaz elm]

Yeah walking looks and feels different

[devout current]

I have not noticed that

[quasi stump]

not having the greatest experience with the new ik so far. chest, knees and elbows are extremely twitchy. when i walk desipite having force locomotion for 6 point tracking turned off it still plays in my chest, knees and toes so my avatar looks funny when i walk. no matter what avatar i use, lock combination, height i pick or whether i choose height/arm spam measurement it just feels off and broken. very disappointed.

[stable shale]

is it just me or is tracking just being total trash rn

[thorny turtle]

Naw it's trash atm for me too

[remote urchin]

my tracking is fine, but hair/ear physics is completely dead on most of my avatars.

[spare grotto]

anyone know how to get back the ik tweak when you just slide on the floor instead of the awkward fbt run

[harsh pawn]

After the update a friend has one of their avatars that seems to rotate forward about 30 degrees after they calibrate into it. All of their other avatars seem to be fine. Any clue what may cause this? It was uploaded today, and the armature was not adjusted from a previous upload.

[wide grove]

Hi I'm friend

Just updated the SDK, no difference, still slightly rotated forward.

[tranquil cipher]

You have a physbone on your hip

don't put physbones on humanoid bones

[lethal light]

Vote on this cany:
https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/add-an-option-to-disable-locomotion-animations-on-all-avatars
Also, probably not the best to talk about mods here

[wide grove]

That did it thanks!

[waxen fern]

how do i fix if i cant calibrate fbt?

[devout current]

remove mods..

and also

[barren creek]

Modification of the VRChat application

There are NO "modifications" of the VRChat client that are considered safe or allowed, no exceptions.

Any application that interacts or modifies the VRChat application is a violation of the Terms of Service, and using it will result in your account being banned.

[blissful granite]

Think the update messed up my arm tracking? I'm on quest and it spasms a lot now

[waxen fern]

ty dr , i know that stuff. found out it was a mirror in my room not letting them track ty

[soft pond]

the fbt tracking that locks head, waist, or all messed my fbt. You can't even take it off when it is on. This new update is pissing off some of my fbt friends including myself because it also messed up our avatars that we have recently uploaded

[still grotto]

This is an existing issue since before the new update, it's something we'd like to fix but didn't make it in yet

[oak pendant]

Yeah, technically this is not supported. But I agree it would be nice if our default base layer reacted better. Here's what the official docs have been on it for quite awhile though:

from https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/full-body-tracking

[vapid geyser]

Having the same issue but with my legs.

[onyx sinew]

So is there anyway to turn off the locked heads and hip, because I swear it does not feel right.

Oops mb bot.

[onyx sinew]

Agreed.

[rustic berry]

Lock hip prioritizes keeping your hips accurate, while allowing viewpoint to drift. Lock head keeps your head accurate, while allowing hips to drift. Lock all will try to lock both in place, but can have mixed results depending on your spine rig

the old behavior was mostly like Lock Hips, since the viewpoint could drift

[soft pond]

You can’t take it off tho, that’s my problem

[rustic berry]

if your rig is very well proportioned to your IRL body, then Lock all is the best option

[rustic berry]

"take it off" what do you mean? make everything not accurate? I'm not sure if you understand how any of this works.

[soft pond]

Unclick, un apply, having it not locked at all

[rustic berry]

something has to be locked. something has to have priority

it used to be that hips were prioritized, allowing your viewpoint to drift

the new IK gives you more options

you can either Lock hips to get behavior similar to how it was before, or Lock head if you want no viewpoint drift at all

depending on your rig, one mode might be better than another in different circumstances, like laying down

which is why you're able to switch between the modes on the fly

[onyx sinew]

Sacred I don't think you understand what me and potentially other FBT users are asking here. There shouldn't have been an option to lock hips and head at all.

[rustic berry]

so you want none of your tracking to be accurate?

[onyx sinew]

The new IK-2 is cool and all but I really don't like that it's locking my avi hips and head.

[onyx sinew]

That's not what I'm saying. But if this is really the only way for it to be "accurate."

Then remove the update honestly.

[soft pond]

Like you can’t undo what you clicked

[onyx sinew]

I preferred the old one way more then this new update.

[vernal garden]

same

[onyx sinew]

Feels so wrong.

[rustic berry]

it's definitely "different", I wouldn't call it wrong. if your rig is well proportioned, the new IK makes your avatar follow your real life movements much more accurately, especially if you have more than 3 trackers

[marsh elm]

and if it isnt...

kek

[rustic berry]

it could just be one of those things that takes some time to get used to. there's also some rig modifications that used to work well, that now do not. likewise, there are things you can do to your rig now that will improve the look of the avatar

[pale saddle]

My avatar's head no longer follows my headset, locked or unlocked, can't tilt head, it just moves side to side while staring straight ahead. Also has issues turning left and right, gets stuck at 45 degrees and refuses to turn further lmao

[rustic berry]

make sure you don't have a Physbone directly on your head bone

any physbone on humanoid bones will fuck up tracking

[soft pond]

There’s no more options than (lock waist, lock head, lock all)

[vernal garden]

everything is just going complete haywire

[strong shale]

When I go down my hip locks up and I can’t do the splits anymore

[marsh elm]

ya've got a crick in your neck

i recommend a massage

[pale saddle]

I sigh, but I think that's the fix I need

[vernal garden]

perfect example @soft pond

[rustic berry]

it's possible your tracker is losing tracking. are you using vive/tundra trackers? if so, ensure that they don't lose sight of your base stations

[oak pendant]

Physbones on any humanoid bone (even if the humanoid bone is in the ignore list) will cause this

[strong shale]

I’m using vive trackers

[rustic berry]

if you experience neck tilt issues, try looking down ~20 degrees while calibrating. I call that issue the "gamer neck" issue

[strong shale]

And my base station is always looking there

[soft pond]

😤😂 perfect example of my avatar vs ik-2

[strong shale]

This hasn’t ever happened till now

When the update came out

[oak pendant]

There is a legacy mode toggle, it's the little button with a little person next to a rewind arrow in the settings quickmenu

[rustic berry]

Kung, whatever happened to that idea of "pre-baking" the effect of looking down during calibration?

[strong shale]

It literally just locks completely

[oak pendant]

However, the old behavior was basically lock-hips without any option to change it

[marsh elm]

hips dont lie

[vernal garden]

she did thats the thing no matter how many times she recalibrated it was so screwed

[marsh elm]

wait

[oak pendant]

I didn't do that because I'd like to provide a better solution in a future patch

[rustic berry]

fair enough

[marsh elm]

so looking up/down changes the direction your head faces vs. the HMD?

[rustic berry]

ensure that their "User real height" is set to their actual height

[vernal garden]

it is

[marsh elm]

i always thought it was completely baked into the direction of the view point

[rustic berry]

it is, that's not the same issue

[vernal garden]

we're dumb as to not put our real height to fix the problem

[marsh elm]

are you stretching the spine before calibrating then?

[rustic berry]

can you get them to go to this world, and take a screenshot of how their avatar looks when standing up straight? https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_01025423-c339-4735-8af9-ba45cc9e46f2

I'm suspecting that their spine is very curved and not straight

[soft pond]

Wdym everyone spine is curved😑😑😑

Wether irl or in a game

[pale saddle]

That definitely sounds 100% my issue, thank you!

[rustic berry]

some avatar's rigs have the spine very bent, which adds a lot of slack in the spine.

[onyx sinew]

Legacy is bs, no way my arms jumbled that much.

[vernal garden]

facts

[soft pond]

Btw the avatar spine is not the problem

[onyx sinew]

This tracking feels so off on 2.0

[soft pond]

I feel like ik-2 shouldn’t exist period

[rustic berry]

I can say that the new IK feels the most natural out of all of the other options, including Neos.

then again, I am one of those people that will spend hours tweaking their rigs to match them as best as possible

and use 11 point tracking

sooo

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[digital grove]

Scoliosis innit

[soft pond]

Shall I repast my nice paragraph

[digital grove]

[marsh elm]

repastit

[vernal garden]

dosent feel natural to me just feels like my avatar is having a Tourette's fit sometimes

[digital grove]

I am Very happy with 2.0 so far, it's pretty cool

[soft pond]

I’m about tired of vrc, these updates are messing up with my avatars, a recent avatar of which I literally bought yesterday and uploaded it yesterday night. These updates considering from yesterday to recent has officially made me want to bang my head against a pile of bricks. Yes I’m going to need to take a HELLA long break from vrchat. These updates have also messed up my full body tracking to my new/pass avatars, especially the IK-2 which I am assuming is the whole locking trackers into place or in that area. Now speaking of the fbt locking trackers in place to your avatar, you can’t take/turn off or un click even if you wanted to. Unfortunately I’m now stuck with my hip locked and that makes me triggered because now I can’t move my hips of the avatar.

[oak pendant]

I don't really have your specifics to help you troubleshoot, but just in case, by correlation with other people who have had issues and make statements that sound like yours, just in case I'll mention that client modification is not allowed and will cause problems for you.

[marsh elm]

I can’t move my hips of the avatar.

try moving... your own hips?

🤔

[rustic berry]

make sure the hips don't have a physbone on them aswell

for things like butt jiggle/tail

[vernal garden]

but the butt jiggles tho

[rustic berry]

you can still have jiggle

I'm just saying don't put the physbone on the hips

[oak pendant]

It could be the case that your hip tracker is not calibrating, the per-tracker IK will allow FBT to function even if the hip tracker isn't calibrated. I suggest following the steps here, including the calibration range launch option #vrchat-general-1 message

[rustic berry]

either have a separate physbone for each butt, or have an extra "butt root" bone, which is parented to the hips and has both butt bones parented to it

once again, don't put Physbones on any humanoid bone

[soft pond]

the fbt locking trackers in place to your avatar, you can’t take/turn off or un click even if you wanted to. I’m talking about the ik-2 (lock waist, lock head, lock all) which is giving me my problem

[onyx sinew]

Was this update centered around the people who have more than 3 trackers or what?

[marsh elm]

yes

[onyx sinew]

at least from an FBT side.

[onyx sinew]

This explains it all, cool

[oak pendant]

You may be misunderstanding the function of the lock-hip lock-head lock-all options and believing that a case of uncalibrated hip is one of the lock options, this isn't the case. I suggest you follow the steps in that linked post and see if your issue resolves

[rustic berry]

a majority of the people using the beta were probably people using more than 3 trackers, so it's possible there was a bias

however

not all of the people were using more than 3 trackers

[onyx sinew]

Heavily a "no-duh" moment

[rustic berry]

if you had opted into the beta before it went live, it's also possible that some of the issues you are experiencing could have been caught earlier

[onyx sinew]

for bias anyway.

[oak pendant]

New functionality for both people with and without more trackers was added with this update, for example the elbow clip exclusion

[rustic berry]

there's definitely going to be some kinks/edge cases at first, but nothing that can't be ironed out in a future update

[soft pond]

I did follow the steps tho

My trackers have never had a calibration problem

[oak pendant]

What value did you use for --calibration-range= ?

If your* feet are tracked, but the hip seems surprisingly unexpressive, I believe increasing the --calibration-range= launch option will solve your problem

[soft pond]

Idk what you mean by that unfortunately, all I know is that you line the tracker balls that show and try to line it to the avatar as much as you can

[oak pendant]

Right click on VRChat in Steam and click properties. On the right there will be a section labeled "General" in the lower half of which is a section labeled "launch options" in the small textbox there paste in --calibration-range="1.0" and see if that fixes your issue

You could increase the "1.0" number even further if you'd like, the default is 0.6

the max value there is 3.0

I'd suggest starting with --calibration-range="1.0" though

[soft pond]

I’ll try that tomorrow, considering it is 10:49pm, thank you for your help I’ll reach out if that has solved my problem or not

[oak pendant]

Good luck, if it doesn't there are other options to enable debug logging, if you submit a log with that I can actually see precisely which trackers are binding to what. But if the above launch option works for you then that's not necessary

@onyx sinew I believe the above post about --calibration-range= may fix your issue too if you feel like your hip isn't moving correctly

[onyx sinew]

I can try that.

[iron hamlet]

When using legacy-calibration & IK2 "lock-hips"-mode the result is ~15cm taller as the configured IRL-size aka you get bigger once you confirm your calibration...

"lock head" works as its supposed to be tho!

(yes, cant wrap my head around the ik2-calibration... viewpoint & avatar z-axis centering feel way off.
pretty sure I'd need to create a custom t-pose to get it right - which I have no idea how to do, yet)

[rustic berry]

calibration is basically as simple as standing up straight, putting your arms in a T pose (required if you have elbow trackers, optional if you don't), looking down aprox 20 degrees, and calibrating

the looking down part is to fix the common issue where the neck will be hunched forward

[iron hamlet]

I got the basic concept, its just not working for me 💦

Might be my armature or tracker-position is the culprit, but its basically just a pandabase-edit, so nothing weird or unusual.

[tidal rampart]

So this new update has made the game entirely uplayable for me if i want to use my fbt, im broke so im using cv1 controllers and running them through a series of cmd promps (3 to be exact) and everything worked perfect and flawlessly before the new update where it forced the ik 2.0 and gives me this error

The issue never happened back on the ik 1.0 stuff but now its completely broken

[oak pendant]

If you could take a video of what it looks like when you calibrate I might be able to see what's going on. Misalignment is much more likely when using legacy calibrate though

[iron hamlet]

Sure thing... as soon as my trackers are done charging

[oak pendant]

If your emulated tracker software is not passing the cv1 controllers as SteamVR "GenericTracker" tracking type, they won't function currently. You might want to look into how that software functions or change it to return GenericTracker if you made it yourself

[tidal rampart]

Yeah i dont know anything along the lines of coding or anything so im probably sol, and this is how they show in steam vr

[oak pendant]

Change the role to not be "held in hand"

[tidal rampart]

I had them changed to what they actually were and the same issue occured, same error as well

[digital grove]

That's a nono

But you're still missing the "generic tracker" part it seems

[oak pendant]

"held in hand" role will cause issues depending on when the devices are switched on and is very much not recommended

However the fact that you have the option to configure tracker roles is a good sign that they may be being emulated as GenericTracker s

[tidal rampart]

I believe th issue comes from my hip tracker wich is a 3rd controller aka oculus tracked object wich isnt assignable in the steamvr menu cause it doesnt even show up

[digital grove]

That is the problem for sure

[oak pendant]

Ah yeah, that would be an issue. You could at least still use the other two though

I know some people are using an old open source app that emulates controllers as a LIV camera, that's known to cause problems now

Officially we list in our docs that we don't support devices other than SteamVR trackers, but this is something that I've been investigating during the beta and am still looking in to

[tidal rampart]

The weird thing is that right after the update, i was able to get it to launch once without crashing and all 3 trackers worked, but my game did its usal thing and crashed after like 30 mins and now it wont work

[oak pendant]

Do you use that LIV camera emulating tool as well?

[tidal rampart]

Nope, didnt even know that was a thing

[oak pendant]

How is your 3rd tracked object being added to SteamVR? You mentioned running 3 cmd prompts

[tidal rampart]

So all three comand prompts have a different purpous, 1 of them just makes oculus think its running a game through my cv1's hmd, 2nd one is the send the tracking data to steamvr, and the 3rd one is the add the arguments to make the oculus controllers register as vive trackers, so they are all added the same way

[oak pendant]

interesting, do you use the "all controllers are tracked objects" option?

[tidal rampart]

So heres the thing, i dont know how to add the arguments so i had to run a batch file to do it for me, but i believe it has them set ass all tracked objects

[icy ferry]

is it intentional to have your arms not straighten out the entire way when lifted above your head, an avatar issue, or just something being finicky to adjust??

for some reason even when my height is adjusted and my controllers line up, i'm still not getting straight arms.

[oak pendant]

it shows there that you should add all the arguments in sequence though I'm getting pretty far out of range of supporting VRC and now supporting 3rd party software

[lethal light]

Avatar proportions issue, generally caused if the shoulder is not lined up with your own shoulder bone

[icy ferry]

it's happening with every avatar for me though

[lethal light]

99.9% of avatars are not proportioned well

[icy ferry]

i've tried one closer to human proportions but i'm not sure if it's just me or what

[tidal rampart]

Well will there be some form of fix for 3rd party trackers rather than just steamvr ones?

[oak pendant]

Try the Avatar Measurement option set to "by height" and see if that helps you

otherwise you could tighten the arms with the custom arm ratio launch option, but that's a little more advanced

[icy ferry]

yeah i've tried it by height as that was default for me since starting the beta and i've went between the two. it's okay if it's just bad avatar luck or something i'm not like pressed about it i'm just curious about it cause it looks a little funky at times.

[lethal light]

Here is an image that was drawn @icy ferry that kind of explains what is happening. And whoops~ I was assuming height. I need to stop doing that

[icy ferry]

again not a big deal anyways was just curious about it

[oak pendant]

I can't promise, our official stance has always been that we don't support non SteamVR tracker based tracking currently. But I'd like to investigate more exactly what is causing things to crash or fail with some of these 3rd party emulated devices

[oak pendant]

It depends on avatar proportions and your measurement option choices, so it's not exactly intended to work in any specific way. With a well proportioned avatar with proper joint placement as well, you should be able to fully extend your arms upward though

[tidal rampart]

Allright, well thank you for your tme, i really appreciate it, and i dont know if this helps but this is the error it gives me that causes it to crash

[icy ferry]

i'm not sure how i'd tell how off the shoulders are. when i touch my shoulder in game, it lines up but i'm also proportioned irl a little strangely. any advice on figuring out if i need to readjust shoulders??

[oak pendant]

There will be more info if you use the --enable-ik-debug-logging launch option, most of the IK related logs are actually absent without that. But yeah hopefully the situation for some of these non standard setups can be improved

[lethal light]

Loosely, if the arm is too short while reaching up, you need to move the shoulder further in, and if it is too long while reaching up you need to move the shoulder further out.
Still, it is just a game of small adjustments till it feels right

[oak pendant]

If it lines up then it might be ok. I'd recommend making sure your user real height is set to your IRL height and then first try using the Avatar Measurement toggle set to "by height"

if that doesn't work you can add this to your launch options in steam: --custom-arm-ratio="0.415"

[icy ferry]

i'm worried about adjusting the shoulders just because when i reach forward or to the side, it straightens out. i managed to adjust to have that stuff worked out, up is the only direction i'm not seeing it go straight with.

[oak pendant]

Always use your accurate User Real Height btw

[icy ferry]

i do have user height accurate since you asked us to do that in the beginning. love that i can use that accurately now lmao. i'm 5'9" so it stays at 5'9"

[oak pendant]

Ah if it straightens out to the sides and front then, yeah maybe your shoulder joints are too low

[tidal rampart]

Is there a way i could force it to use ik 1.0 through launch options?

[icy ferry]

ahhhh okay. low then. i'll have to try maybe moving some shoulder joints up.

thank you!!

[oak pendant]

Unfortunately not for the new tracker acquisition and handling that's going on behind the scenes. There's a legacy toggle that reverts most of the IK motion behavior. But because we implemented the feature request of calibration saving and allowing trackers to exist without being forced into calibration when they're far away, the overall handling of trackers had to change at* a deeper level

This isn't working well right now with devices that are controllers or other things besides GenericTracker when trying to use them as trackers

[tidal rampart]

Oh allrighty, tysm and again i appreciate your time

[oak pendant]

You're welcome, sorry there isn't a quick fix for you right now. Though looking into the config options in your 3rd party cmd prompt software thing might help if you can force them all to be trackers

[tight scaffold]

is it possible to revert to an older version of vrchat before the new ik update and still play online because this shit is god awful and its causing me severe pain. the scaling system is completely messed up and the arm clip thing causes your arms to break.

[obtuse dagger]

Using Touch Link to convert CV1 Controllers into Vive Trackers crash the game upon even loading the game, but mainly when going to calibrate.

[tidal rampart]

They are all registered as trackers, but the hip freaks out the steamvr tracker menu since its a VR object

[oak pendant]

Hmm yeah I can't provide direct support on that, but the list of various launch arguments in your screenshot looked like some might help. If you're using a different method to launch the 3rd tracker with your batch file, making it like the other two might help

[tidal rampart]

Ah okie, and again, tysm

[icy ferry]

can you elaborate on what sort of pain it's causing?? and what you mean by the scaling system being messed up??

[tight scaffold]

well i have a strange case of phantom pain to where i cannot wear any other avatars without it feeling like my skin is being torn off and my limbs, and i cannot play in vr without fbt or the disconnect causes extreme pain, and the pain can go on for weeks sometimes post playing VR due to the severity of the phantom pain.

[oak pendant]

Yeah, this is officially unsupported, but I'm looking in to it so it may be fixed at some point. It's similar to the issue Shyy is having

[oak pendant]

That sounds extreme, I recommend you don't use VR and consult a doctor

[tight scaffold]

and the new system either is not working, as it wont even allow calibration, or its breaking the model

[icy ferry]

are you extremely tall or extremely short by chance

[tight scaffold]

i wish but i am on a no service list due to corruption in my state related to a previous employer, so yeah

[tight scaffold]

i am 7' tall yes

[icy ferry]

then it's likely because of your height. you can change your steam launch options to accommodate your height better.

[tight scaffold]

the height system does not work

[icy ferry]

that's not what i'm talking about though. there's a line of code you need to put into the vrchat launch options.

[tight scaffold]

it never really has worked either

oh that no

[oak pendant]

Are you using your accurate User Real Height (so set to 7' if that's your physical height)?

[tight scaffold]

I have to set it to 9' to get it to line up properly sometimes or 4' 2

[obtuse dagger]

I made a canny that I will keep updated, but on top of that if you guys need feedback or anything, just tag me or shoot me a DM.

[tight scaffold]

hence why i said it does not work

[icy ferry]

you can use accurate user real height now that's why kung is asking

it's made to better be adjusted to real height

[oak pendant]

Thanks yeah having it on Canny will help keep a record to get you contacted if things change

[oak pendant]

You must use your accurate User Real Height or you will have problems

[tight scaffold]

as i said the real height number never stays one number and bounces around. i set it to 9' to get it to work, changed worlds then i had to set it extremely low about 4'

[oak pendant]

There are new options to accommodate discrepancies in avatar scale now

But User Real Height is now used behind the scenes for many more things and having it be inaccurate will cause issues for you

[tight scaffold]

it wont sync up properly if left in one number. Basically the trackers will go way higher or way lower than the model causing me to adjust frequently

[icy ferry]

with the new ik?? that could be a rig problem at that point or calibration range or something

[oak pendant]

Yeah, so you're having issues with relative avatar scale. There are new options to adjust this. The easiest is using the new Avatar Measurement toggle

[tight scaffold]

its always done this

[icy ferry]

it may have always done it, but the new ik is meant to accommodate that so you don't have to deal with stuff like that.

[oak pendant]

IK2.0 is big change to how things work, it doesn't have to anymore. You must use your accurate User Real Height and use the other options available to you to handle scale discrepancies

[tight scaffold]

yes the accurate user height has been broken

pre ik2.0 even

[icy ferry]

but not anymore, that's what's being said. it shouldn't cause an issue with ik 2.0. user real height is accurate now.

[tight scaffold]

it still is not

[oak pendant]

Yes, before IK2.0 messing around with User Real Height was your only option to adjust relative avatar scale. Now things have changed. You must use your accurate height there. Did you try this toggle? Set it to the "height" mode

[icy ferry]

so the trackers are jumping around or what?? what type of avatar are you using anyways??

[tight scaffold]

i have a rex avatar that i have made

but the trackers arent jumping, just the height positioning changes on every world change

making it so that I have to constantly change the real height which has been an issue for a while but seemingly worse now

[oak pendant]

I was able to read the message that bot deleted. If you've used client modifications (that's very much not allowed) but if you have you must perform a clean reinstall of VRChat. Here's info on how to do that https://help.vrchat.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408235200403-How-can-I-completely-reinstall-VRChat-

You must include the step of deleting remaining files in the folder after uninstall

[icy ferry]

oh yeah absolutely don't use modifications they'll break things and aren't allowed anyways

[tight scaffold]

yea i am aware its not allowed but its the only way i was able to play the game.

[icy ferry]

but if you have them at all in the install now, you have to clear them completely or it may be causing your problem

[tight scaffold]

it fixed the broken full body system to where i could actually do things and not be in pain the entire time

i do not

i removed it before getting on because the uiexpansion thing it was in was not appearing anyhow so it definitely was unusable if anything

ive been on desktop last few days doing avatar work so i havent had a chance to see the system till today

oh god vrchat is fucking massive

r.i.p. internet to reinstall vrchat

[digital grove]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-wall-gif-5021467

What Kung must feel like rn:

[oak pendant]

@tight scaffold Ok I'd like to help you but I can't provide support for issues caused by modified clients. So I'm going to post a link for you to follow every step in to get you back to a working baseline. Then after that you can do the following, first use the Avatar Measurement toggle set to by height as I mentioned. This will likely solve your scaling issues for all avatars. But if not you can set it back to "by arms" and input this launch option --custom-arm-ratio="0.4537" the 0.4537 value is the default. Decreasing this value will decrease avatar size / make it fit tighter. Increase will do the opposite. this is the the new way to fine-tune adjust relative scale (though the Avatar Measurement toggle will make this automatic so probably use that instead). Always use your accurate User Real Height. Ok.. so here's the link to follow before all that to get you back to baseline: #vrchat-general-1 message You'll have to have an open mind and follow these directions or things won't work out for you. Good luck!

[tight scaffold]

i will give it a shot after the game reinstalls

itll be 3 hours yet

[icy ferry]

good luck

[tight scaffold]

thanks

[oak pendant]

Yep, best of luck!

[tight scaffold]

if it doesnt work gonna have to find another way to spend the rest of my time on earth before god awful fucking cancer finally takes me.

[tidal rampart]

Soo i found out the issue, due to the names of my controllers being used as tracker in the steam vr menu being LHR_OCULUS_x it gets confused on load and cant figure out a 3d model to give the tracker wich then causes it to crash, so if i could find a way to change the controllers name it would work

[lethal light]

I refuse to read the docs that explain all of the changes to me. This sucks, I can't use the same hacks to fix the broken IK even though various fixes are already part of the game. I refuse to uninstall my mods because I can't play without them. This game suck, horrible worst update ever I am super mad. :rage::rage::rage:

[lethal light]

What everyone complaining in this chat sounds like

[tight scaffold]

im not mad i am in severe pain and stressed out and bit depressed.

the anti arm clip thing twisted my arm in a way it should not so thats the pain part

stress and depression is unrelated to any of this and its more of personal stuff that isnt going to be shared here

[digital grove]

Consider getting elbow trackers if it bothers you that much

[tight scaffold]

i need to find where the straps ran off to

[regal notch]

why is my 5 point fbt not working anymore?

[icy ferry]

it is what it is. once that fresh install is finished and if you're still having issues, then go through the options that kung linked. after that, if you're still having issues, then you can either ask about them or look into elbow trackers.

[tight scaffold]

i have elbow trackers that i have never used as well as knee but i gotta find the straps because i kinda threw them somewhere when i used the trackers as backups for when the battery packs died and the trackers were out of juice

the straps are somewhere, but the question is where

[drifting rune]

would anyone know why a hip tracker would show tracking in steamvr but not track in game

[digital grove]

Why do you not use them if it is the easiest solution to your problem

[icy ferry]

well the elbow and knee trackers solve one part of the issue, which is the arms. doesn't solve the weird height calibration issues.

[digital grove]

Read the previous messages

[icy ferry]

the fresh install might though

[lethal light]

literally just follow what kung said and this would have already been fixed

[icy ferry]

i mean at the very least they're working on it now. more than what most people do.

[tight scaffold]

yea am currently waiting on my middle of nowhere dialup internet system to install a 700mb game at 500kbps

[oak pendant]

This may help you: #vrchat-general-1 message

[lethal light]

I mean, you are not wrong

[tight scaffold]

atleast i am not uploading vrchat because upload speed is peak 170kbps

lol

people wish they could return to the 90s for nostaliga sake, but techically i am in the 90s xD

[digital grove]

Consider getting satellite internet

[tight scaffold]

i stil use my tapes and tape decks and have old sound equipment for playing them music

[tight scaffold]

i wish we had that here. only got comcast or at&t or a reseller of at&t xD

[oak pendant]

@tight scaffold while you're reinstalling did you make sure to follow these steps during the uninstall?

[tight scaffold]

but i dont think that satellite works in a forest

[tight scaffold]

yep went through all the stuff evel the local app data and cleared house

[oak pendant]

if not you might need to repeat the download to get a non-polluted install

[digital grove]

The beauty of satellite internet is that you can use it mostly anywhere because it only needs to see the staellites

[tight scaffold]

but trees

[oak pendant]

ok good to know 👍

Didn't want you to finish your download then start looking at the directions one of which is uninstall and delete the folder 😅

[tight scaffold]

even cleared cache which i had relocated to another drive instead of the main one

[oak pendant]

Awesome, yeah getting back to a clean install is pretty important for it all to work out, cool

[tight scaffold]

yes! i finally installed it! oh nooooo i didnt delete the folders!!! has to completely reinstall again

yea i learned my lesson the first time i forgot xD

[icy ferry]

ik 2 is wonderful so hopefully you can get it working!! i've been using since the start of beta and i still love it

a lot of the big stuff got knocked out of the way during the beta so it's a lot better than it was originally too

[tight scaffold]

actually i think i broke the screw out of one of the straps putting the tracker on it for the first time

yea i had to secure it using a phone cable to my leg xD

because at that time there ended up being a stocking issue

[vital inlet]

I've heard a lot of people who do pcvr with the quest such as me, have been having fbt break because of this new update, I just bought fbt and wondering if i just spent that for nothing 😅

[echo temple]

flashing my vive wands fixed the issues i had since 1-2 weeks ago on ik 2.0 beta where wands didnt get picked up, ik 2.0 is really nice

[tight scaffold]

i got them big meaty calves i dont skip leg day and they stopped stocking the XL leg straps in rebuff so i wasn unable to replace it

[gray crypt]

hey so just wanted to ask and see if anyone else had a problem with calibrating full body tracking in vrchat since the ik 2.0 beta?
ive tried reconnecting everything, uninstalling and reinstalling, i remember when i was using the beta the tracking problem worked after i stopped using the beta.
Is there any known fix for it yet? I cant really play the game now with fullbody since i cant opt out of the beta anymore. i love the ik 2.0 it just doesnt work for me

[tight scaffold]

so i found a random phone line cord and cut it to fit and used that to secure it to my knee

which worked for 10 minutes until it got loose then the tracker would evacuate and enter the floor dimention

[oak pendant]

If you bought lighthouse trackers (so vive trackers or tundra trackers) it should work just fine

[tight scaffold]

tundras finally release?

[oak pendant]

The issues are with emulated trackers where a non-lighthouse controller is being passed across with a helper app or something

[lethal light]

end of may is when the first round is supposed to be shipping

[rustic berry]

due to the high demand, they are doing multiple runs spaced out by a couple months for now

[echo temple]

the live version has some odd stuff tho, like when stretching my arm to the side while in running animation does some weird banding, and it seems like after calibration avatar is a bit to the left or something

[tight scaffold]

ahh ok

[rustic berry]

the first public round was march 10th

I got mine a long time ago since I was backer 42

[tight scaffold]

im gonna eat and stop talking in here lol

[rustic berry]

I can definitely recommend them

[digital grove]

You had like 30 seconds to order before everything was sold out and now a 4 month wait

[lethal light]

I am so ready to get my left knee tracker whenever tundra gets around to shipping them xD

[rustic berry]

not as bad as the rtx 30 series launch

[vital inlet]

yeah I bought the 3.0 vive trackers and the 1.0 base stations, just got really worried hearing that I may have spent 700 for something i may not be able to use, I read through the doc but didnt see anything about the problem i was hearing about

[lethal light]

A little advice, try it out first before asking based on rumors. Also, vrchat is not going to break a massive thing like hybrid fullbody tracking except by accident

[oak pendant]

Yep that should work just fine, some of the VRC staff use a similar setup

[vital inlet]

Sorry didnt mean to be a bother, I wasnt trying to say it was broken forever or anyone's at fault, just verifying what ive heard cause I was worried abt making such a large purchase than seeing stuff like that happening to people I know

[vital inlet]

Thank you for the info 😄

[tight scaffold]

@oak pendant you mind pinning the message for me so I can find it when it's done?

[lethal light]

you can right click > copy message link

[digital grove]

Right click, save link

[digital grove]

This

[tight scaffold]

I can't do anything with it until it's done downloading due to the download using all my internet rn

[lethal light]

........

[tight scaffold]

Im on mobile data rn but I can resend to random person in dms lol

I guess

[oak pendant]

It's a little too specifically directed to you for a channel pin I think hmm, lemme read again if it would work for that

here's the link tho #ik-2 message

[tight scaffold]

Thank ya

[oak pendant]

Yeah, a little too specific case for a pin probably

[tight scaffold]

Thats fine lol

Just wanna make sure i can get back to it

[lethal light]

@digital grove you seeing this? xD

[tight scaffold]

Im old i don't know how to work these social medias things

But the non internet side of computers yes i know those well

[lethal light]

we literally told you how to get the exact same thing that kung just sent you. That is why we are laughing. Also, right click save as has been a thing for decades

[tight scaffold]

Oh shit sorry

[lethal light]

gotta learn eventually, atleast you seem capeable of that which is surprisingly few people here ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tight scaffold]

We didn't have no dishcords back in my day. Best we had was them BBS rooms

[tight scaffold]

Hell I watch documentaries all day and build shit in my garage like robots and homemade sound equipment and other things that randomly pop into my head. I really dont do the video games much not too interesting

I prefer tinkering with shit or going to a track and racing or just building stuff because bored

I got plenty of fun stories on all that too lol I could go on about in the general chat or something if anyone would care to hear it

[lean badger]

@oak pendant found another avatar that floats on calibration with legacy calibration. also forgot to mention i also use --freeze-tracking-on-disconnect if that has any sort of effect

[oak pendant]

Is that a public avatar?

If it's public, if you could update your canny with the avatar id that would be helpful

[lean badger]

not sure if there are any public uploads of the Chipori, unfortunately

it would have to be a sample by the creator, due to the licensing

[oak pendant]

Ah kk, if it's not public then that's alright. Thanks for the extra data point

Knowing that it happens in SDK2 is helpful already

[lean badger]

this one is SDK3

it seems to happen regardless

[oak pendant]

Oh, that's extra useful to know then

ok good info, thanks

[lean badger]

my private upload of akiho (the rabbit) is SDK3 as well. it's just the publically available sample avatar is SDK2

[oak pendant]

Interesting, so SDK2 or SDK3 upload of the same base will cause the issue

[lean badger]

yes, it seems so

[oak pendant]

Kinda rules out animator issues, which would make the most sense. Hmm, good info though 👍

[nova falcon]

im having issues with maknig my avatar fit me well enough in vrchat now since the update i normally used ovr advanced settings to help solved that issue of fitting in the avatar but doesnt work anymore since the update my feet irl dont go all the way down to the avatars feetsry for my bad explainin

[lethal light]

If you read the docs, you would come to find out that setting your scaling mode to height would fix it.
Also, use your actual height in user real height

[stuck flare]

I had an issue where I couldn't calibrate

I saw the balls, but can't calibrate, htc vive, index controllers

[oak pendant]

What kind of trackers do you use?

[stuck flare]

3.0s trackers with 2.0 base statiojns

[oak pendant]

Ok, yeah there should be no problem getting those to work, (there are a few issues now for people using controllers in place of trackers or emulated trackers)

Actually this should probably be pinned in this channel, just a sec

[stuck flare]

I couldn't calibrate through, it wouldn't let me . it was weird

wait im dumb, its 2.0 trackers 1.0 base stations, sry, long day

[oak pendant]

Having trouble with IK / Full Body after the last update? Check out this link and follow the instructions carefully. And it's worth mentioning here too, you must set your actual physical height in the User Real Height setting. Ok here's a bunch of troubleshooting steps to get you up and running! #vrchat-general-1 message

[stuck flare]

'precciate it!

[oak pendant]

No problem, hope it helps! 👍

[final raven]

@oak pendant Something I just realized and surprised I didn't test during the ik-beta. I wonder if it's intentional that you can bypass having to recalibrate when swapping measurement methods or swapping between legacy and 2.0 by toggling off FBT prior to swapping and then turning it back on after. 🤔

[oak pendant]

Oh yeah I remember noticing this and didn't do anything about it. It's not really 100% necessary to clear out the calibration between legacy and 2.0 so I let this "workaround" remain. The way the hip is calibrated in legacy is different and so you'll have a somewhat off-position hip if you do that, but if you really want to I guess I won't stop you 😁

[final raven]

Oh okay! I was curious if this meant there was a way to do away with recalibrating in general when swapping. Although I'm more curious if that is possible when swapping between height and arm span measurement without many adverse side effects.

[oak pendant]

Actually, yeah... that forced recalibrate on Avatar Measurement setting was implemented before calibration saving and I never revisited it. 🤔 The saved calibration would work after a measurement method change.

[final raven]

Ooooh, should I put in a canny as a reminder?

[oak pendant]

Yeah do it! Don't wanna forget to revisit this yet again. Thanks!

[final raven]

https://vrchat.canny.io/vrchat-ik-20/p/1202-swapping-between-avatar-measurement-methods-should-retain-your-saved-calibr

[final carbon]

@oak pendant
Kungさん、こんにちは。
私はVRChatのアバターに適したボーン構造について、日本語話者向けのnoteを書いて公開している者です。

Hi Kung-san.
I am the one who has written and published a "note" for Japanese speakers on suitable bone structures for VRChat avatars.
Link: https://note.com/ko13/n/nf1725928157a

背骨のボーンの構造が地面に対して垂直でない場合、背骨がアバター製作者の意図していたカーブを描かないことはもう知っているのですが、今後のアップデートでどんなカーブの背骨にも対応されるという可能性はありますか？

I already know that if the bone structure of the spine is not perpendicular to the ground,
the spine will not curve the way the avatar creator intended, but is there any possibility that any curve of the spine will be supported in a future update?

それとも、アバター製作者やユーザーが望む背骨のカーブを実現するためには、ボーン配置を修正するしかないのでしょうか？

Or is the only way to achieve the spine curve desired by the avatar creator or user is to modify the bone placement?

（This text was translated at DeepL.）

[digital grove]

Deepl not bad innit

[quasi stump]

its just a shame that im having so many issues with jittery tracking and my avatar looking plain stupid when i sit down. and that i have to go and rework all of my avatars to fix one tiny issue when it worked absolutely fine using a certain .dll file im sure you are all too familiar with

[digital grove]

Are you saying you designed your avatar to work with a mod

[lethal light]

You are fine, testdostres was talking about woomie

[final carbon]

Σ( ´･ω･`)！！ Thank you!!!!
（I will study English...😭）

[digital grove]

㍗

[final carbon]

すみません！
自分に話しかけられたと思って返事しちゃいました！！
（文章は消しました！）

Sorry!
I thought you were talking to yourself and replied!
(I erased the text!)

[digital grove]

なるほどね

[tight scaffold]

@oak pendant guess what? it just finished installing...

[lethal light]

might be best not to ping him. Have you tried the steps he linked? Are they working?

[tight scaffold]

about to yea

it just finished reinstalling the game is all

what was that, 4 or 5 hours?

1:30 am or so and finally done

[oak pendant]

Miyokoさん、こんにちは。今回のIK2.0アップデートでは背骨のボーンが地面に対して垂直になる関連のことよりも、ボーンとボーンの間に大した角度がある場合、その角度はIKチェインの緩みと読み込まれ、IK計算が始まるとゴールに引っ張られてその緩みが真っ直ぐになることが前より多くなる。特に胸のボーンをヒーローらしく強く前に出しているアバターの場合は、その胸ボーンが凹むことがある。今のところでは背骨のIKチェインに大した角度を入れないことがアドバイスです。LegacyIKではHipとSpineの間でボーンが大きく回転して、Spine-Chest-Neckの部分は非常に硬かったことで視点が大きくずれることがあったり、IK中背骨（Hip-Spineの関節）が変な角度になったりすることもありました。しばらくIK2.0は今のままで進むと思いますがアバター作りでより自由な角度で背骨ボーンを組めるようになることが望まれていると意識しています。

[tight scaffold]

was there a vive 1.0 tracker?

[oak pendant]

Yeah, it had a grey triangle instead of blue like the 2.0 for the logo, and only supported 1.0 lighthouses but had slightly longer battery life if I remember correctly

[tight scaffold]

ahh so thats why it was cheaper and looked different.

i found a tracker but the other 3 are gone so doing some hunting for straps and 3 others now

the ik 2.0 does support knees correct?

forget if its arms only or 10 point

[lethal light]

11 point

[tight scaffold]

oh

does a chest tracker do much

[lethal light]

On lock all with an extremely well proportioned avatar it is quite nice

So nice, in fact, that I sacrificed my left knee for it xD

[tight scaffold]

i see

i mean if i do anything in vr its playing guitar in vr or dancing like a madman and i lock joints and do a lot of movement unseen with 6 point so might be interesting

i could make 6 point look like 10 point but with actual 10 point hmmm xD

[oak pendant]

@final carbon Canny投票をしたい場合はここです：https://vrchat.canny.io/vrchat-ik-20/p/chest-bone-gets-moved-back-when-its-not-directly-above-spine-tilted-a-bit

[lethal light]

Dancing is one of the activities that is most benefited by the new IK

[tight scaffold]

i just gotta get 3-4 new trackers and straps and figure out where the chargers went

4 if i want chest but i did find some of the straps and they are no longer usable. i think i danced in them already

surprisingly the fabric tore through before the velcrow failed

[lethal light]

how many trackers did you say you currently have?

[tight scaffold]

i thougt i had 10 but i remembered i gave 3 away so 4

counting index and controller 7 currently

[lethal light]

Yeah, I would do feet+hips+chest until you can get more. The chest is surprisingly amazing, or at least it felt like it completed the package to me

[tight scaffold]

oh fuck

something just went nuts

Scared the fuck outta me

#general-media put vid there

[lethal light]

xD

[tight scaffold]

Put another from when it happened

[lethal light]

Is that some sort of radio reciever?

[tight scaffold]

no its a stage rackmount effects machine minus the rack because its too heavy to move in here alone

[lethal light]

so it randomly yelled at you? xD

[tight scaffold]

yes

but first the screen and everything went nuts and made that gurle sound

[lethal light]

wonderful

[tight scaffold]

yep

i just wanted to sit and enjoy my chicken and look at trackers and watch grand tour in peace

[final carbon]

お返事ありがとうございます！しかも日本語で！！ビックリした！！
新しいIKは素晴らしいと思います！
自分が作ったアバターはVRChat向けのボーン構造にしているので、私自身は何の不満もありません。
アップデートして下さってありがとうございます！！

Thanks for getting back to me! And in Japanese! I'm so surprised!
I think the new IK is great and I have no complaints myself as I have made my avatar with a bone structure for VRChat. Thank you for updating it!!!

でも、一部のユーザーは「アバターの背骨がカーブしているせいで、新IKでは胸の部分が凹んで猫背になってしまう。新IKは使いたいけど使えない…」と言っていました。

But some users say, "Because of the curve of the avatar's spine, the new IK makes the chest area concave and hunch back. I want to use the new IK, but I can't..."

新しいIKは素晴らしいのに、上記の理由で使わない選択をする人が居ることが残念でなりません。

The new IK is great, but it is a shame that some people choose not to use it for the above reasons.

Canny投票して、私のnote記事にもそのことを追記します。
本当にありがとうございます！

I'll be voting for Canny and
I will add that to my note article.
Thank you so much!

[quasi stump]

my shoulders seem to droop a lot when i sit down no matter what avatar i use and i dont have the blender skills to edit any of the armatures or weightpainting

[grim haven]

I'm very confused why the angle of my hands has changed in the new IK. They used to be accurate, but now they are slightly rotated.

[devout current]

From what I know, they have not changed with the new IK. You probably were using Modifications of the VRChat client before.

[barren creek]

Modification of the VRChat application

There are NO "modifications" of the VRChat client that are considered safe or allowed, no exceptions.

Any application that interacts or modifies the VRChat application is a violation of the Terms of Service, and using it will result in your account being banned.

[oak pendant]

I had not heard about this at all during the beta period, this makes me suspicious that this issue is coming from people who had used client modifications on their VRChat installation, but it's really hard to troubleshoot that because people who do would say they don't. For now I can point you to the pins in this channel. If I'm able to reproduce this issue myself I can attempt to fix it, but as far as our beta testers were concerned, this issue never appeared during the beta period as far as I know.

[grim haven]

I did not notice this during the beta either, honestly.

[icy ferry]

i would say the only complaints i've heard about hands lately are that the predictions that the elbow/wrists make when moving hands behind the back or into some more strange positions (ie. touching shoulder with hand on same side, putting arm over eyes, etc.) are a bit strange but that's all

[grim haven]

Oh well.

[icy ferry]

and that more comes from other parts than the hands themselves

[oak pendant]

私日本に住んでいますがネイティブじゃないので漢字が苦手です。変に日本語を使っていないか自信がありません。😅 Cannyの参加をありがとうございます。そうですね、LegacyIKの問題を再び生み出さないで解決出来るといいですね。不可能とは言えません、ただIK2.0でまだ修正や磨きたいことの中で優先度が今のところ比較的に低いです。例えばLock-Allの首の動きとか他に本当に「バグっている」と言える優先度がまだ高いものが残っている。

[devout current]

Random question Kung, do you have DMs disabled for this server?

[oak pendant]

Ya, I'd often get requests related to moderation and stuff. I'm just an engineer yo! And that stuff's not to be handled in DMs even by moderation team. Even after directing people to the #moderation-reports channel, some still want to talk about their moderation issue in DM and that's a no-go. So yeah, I've got them switched off.

[devout current]

Ah okay, that's understandable ^^

[oak pendant]

Yeah, kinda a "this is why we can't have nice things" situation 😖

[devout current]

Anyway, I've noticed that if turn on walking animations in my custom locomotion controller my hands aren't really connected to my controllers anymore, they wobble around a bit from where they normally should be.

Anything I could do to prevent this?

[oak pendant]

Not really at this point, that's also an issue in legacy IK and would likely require deeper updates to animation blending and locomotion to fully eliminate (on our end) I messed around with it during early part of IK2.0 development but it's quite a deep rabbit hole

[devout current]

Ah okay, I mean as soon as we get a locomotion toggle in game I can kick out that custom locomotion controller 😅

[final carbon]

そうだったんですね…！大丈夫です！ちゃんと伝わってます！
ネイティブですが、私も漢字は苦手です🤣

対応するとなると、どうしても優先度が高い順になってしまいますよね…。わかります…😭
最近はプロの3Dモデラーさん達がアバターを制作してBoothで販売するということも増えて、
そういう方々の作るモデルのボーンは、人間の骨格に類似した構造が特に多いと感じました。

[devout current]

time for google translate xD

(for me)

[grim haven]

When laying down, my chest seems to break once it reaches a certain angle with any avatar.

[scarlet tendon]

Ok I'm just double checking, is new IK supply full body tracking on quest, if so what tracking device I should use

[oak pendant]

そうですね、少しずつモデラーさん達がヒーローポーズやフィギュアより普通の人間らしい骨格で作ってくれるとこの問題はそれである程度解決になるかもしれませんが、確かにそのために少し芸術の自由を失うこともあります。Legacyスイッチを残したはこのような問題の為だったけど確かにできるだけ多い人にIK2.0を使ってもらいたいですね。「解決します！」と今のところでは約束ができませんが、問題を意識しています。解決も望ましいと思います。優先の順番が回ってきたら嬉しいです。

[oak pendant]

Not on native Quest, but if you connect your quest to a PC and use SteamVR and also buy some lighthouse base stations and htc vive trackers or tundra tackers it can be made to work that way

[oak pendant]

If you're using lock-all mode I'd suggest one of the other two options. But it's hard for me to see what's happening in those screenshots. Could you try again in this world? https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_01025423-c339-4735-8af9-ba45cc9e46f2 Also a video would make it clearer too but I know not everyone is set up for recording.

By the way I'll be going to sleep pretty soon here, so I might not be around, making canny posts if you've confirmed you think you've got a bug on your hands is a way to be sure I'll see something

[grim haven]

Ye, the video will help a ton. let me set it up.

[grim haven]

This is just head lock

[oak pendant]

Oh yeah, that's clear now. Your base locomotion pose is moving into full prone-crouch mode

That's affecting the IK it appears

[grim haven]

I hope this helps <3

[oak pendant]

It can be fixed by making a custom locomotion layer, but yeah... our default locomotion layer is not ideal for laying on your back like that.

I think that would be worth putting on canny

They way to fix it yourself though would be to make a custom locomotion/base layer that doesn't play the crouch animation when in full body (TrackingType parameter)

[grim haven]

I'll head over and post on canny as well as update my avatar, thank you <3

[scarlet tendon]

Welp, I probably have to wait till either there official oculus quest tracker from oculus or save enough money to get stronger pc

[tawdry glen]

GPU prices are coming back down to sensible levels, a PC upgrade would be a better investment if you've got other games you play on PC.

[scarlet tendon]

Only games on my laptop is fallout 1

[marsh elm]

i sincerely doubt we'll be getting a decent fullbody solution, or anything at all for the quest 2 standalone anytime soon

[scarlet tendon]

Maybe l4d2 if wasn't corrupted

[marsh elm]

maybe project cambria, but that guy will be expensive

[scarlet tendon]

Project Cambria?

[marsh elm]

new 800 dollar, work/stuff focused oculus headset in the makings

[scarlet tendon]

0-0

Yeah no

[marsh elm]

it'll be like a quest 2 jacked on new tech and a different shape

[scarlet tendon]

I already saw oculus quest guns trackers in Amazon but for that yeah no

[grim haven]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/back-break-when-laying <3

[marsh elm]

(x) to doubt
gun yes, they're just controller clip-on attachments

[scarlet tendon]

Plus there was rumors about there gonna be new quest model so

[marsh elm]

but there is nothing else you can connect to the quest for extra tracking points right now

unless you count the weird ass keyboard tracking, but that doesnt really count

[scarlet tendon]

Why I imagine someone wrap up keyboard on their body as full body tracking

[marsh elm]

keyboard based fullbody

lets fuckin go

[scarlet tendon]

Tbh I would pay $800 for that/s

[final carbon]

Twitterで呼びかけたところ、投票する人がちょっと増えてました！☺️✨

私も、別の件でCannyに投稿をしました。
カテゴリーをどうしたら良いか分からず、IK2.0にしましたが、おかしかったら投稿し直します！
もし間違っていたら教えて下さい🙏
https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/please-publish-clearly-the-details-about-avatars-adapted-to-vrcs-ik-from-the-off

[robust tangle]

The index controller root motion bug needs to be fixed, as expected from beta the new update made it even worse. MMD dances are a total mess now with all avatars stacked on top each other.

used to be a workaround where you could open your Steam overlay but the new update made that workaround no longer work so there’s just no way to have group dances work on index

It’s so annoying that it works perfectly for non-index controllers. It’s making me want to go out and get a Quest and that just is awful :/

[robust tangle]

https://vrchat.canny.io/avatar-30/p/bugbuild-1004-avatars-30-emotes-on-index-do-not-have-root-transform-applied-prop

[obtuse dagger]

Any news about the Hybrid FBT Fix?

[obtuse dagger]

I used Driver4VR with the controllers and it works just fine @oak pendant

So the problem is only when using https://github.com/mm0zct/Oculus_Touch_Steam_Link

[proven forge]

is beta connected to live?

[balmy gull]

Beta is now official release

[warm inlet]

I used my HTC controllers as foot trackers. Unfortunately this doesn't work anymore since the new update...

[tame pewter]

that’s fixable

set tracker role to GenericTracker in steamvr

#vrchat-general-1 message

Currently anything reporting to SteamVR with the tracked device class of "GenericTracker" will be recognized, trackers that aren't will not. If you're using for example emulated tracker software or something else that hands the device over to SteamVR as a GenericTracker it should work. If you're trying to use tracked objects with the "Controller" TrackedDeviceClass it may not work. If you've lost a use case due to this make a post on canny with exact details of your tracker / vr setup here: https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20

[warm inlet]

Thx I'll try it tomorrow 😃 👍 @tame pewter

[oak pendant]

This requires flashing your controllers so do it at your own risk though. There's also a chance that support for controllers-as-trackers may return one day, just as a fyi

Here's where Vagafilo tried it and reported it as working though if you wanna see what was done: #ik-2 message

[warm inlet]

Thx ☺️

[vital inlet]

@dark copper maybe you could try this

[dark copper]

me as well

[marsh elm]

just tested ingame

@rustic berry fuckin gamer neck lmaoo

so accurate

[rustic berry]

lmfao

yea you definitely gotta tilt your head down for it to look right

[marsh elm]

you're spot on 😂

[rustic berry]

xD

yea trust me I've tried a lot of different things when calibrating

[marsh elm]

yeah, tried that and its way better

[rustic berry]

yo what if you calibrate while doing a hand stand

[marsh elm]

ayo

can you even

[rustic berry]

you can use spacebar to calibrate rather than pressing triggers

use VoiceAttack to make a voice command to calibrate

[marsh elm]

holyshit lol

so, how does your character look afterwards

unholy?

[rustic berry]

no idea, I've never tried it

but it probably would be cursed

[vital inlet]

ik2 disables fullbody when i turn off controllers?

also legacy ik moves my body when i turn off my controllers and fullbody and moves headset

[cloud lion]

is there a way to enable legacy IK

[vital inlet]

very annoying