avatar-general

[rain marlin]

XD

man

youre gonna get fucked

youre going to put your vr and see that all your avatars have fucked up arms

[visual dagger]

i actually have more fun making and testing avatars than actually playing the game

[safe mirage]

that might be the reason for spending more time in unity then vrchat

[rain marlin]

i actually have more fun making and testing avatars than actually playing the game
@visual dagger yeah

[safe mirage]

youre going to put your vr and see that all your avatars have fucked up arms
@rain marlin oh boy, cant wait to fix all my avatars

[visual dagger]

i tend to run into more annoying kids screaming on vrchat than anything else anyway, not exactly what i call fun

[safe mirage]

need to rip some of my avatars from the game, lost some og files

i tend to run into more annoying kids screaming on vrchat than anything else anyway, not exactly what i call fun
@visual dagger friends +

[rain marlin]

i tend to run into more annoying kids screaming on vrchat than anything else anyway, not exactly what i call fun
@visual dagger I totaly hate that, I'm usually with the Japanese community, always respectful and fun, no crash avatars and no fucked up animations, just talk and fun

[safe mirage]

how do you join a japanese com?

[rain marlin]

There tons of worlds that are for Japanese people

I just go there

[visual dagger]

yeah, i've found a few cool people but my schedule is pretty random too so i'm not always on at the same times

[safe mirage]

yea cuz the people who crash cant go there 😂

[rain marlin]

They don't

[safe mirage]

[rain marlin]

I've never crashed on a Japanese word

Ever

[safe mirage]

not yet

[rain marlin]

Looks like they just don't find it funny

[robust glen]

Yeah not yet

[rain marlin]

Yeah not yet

[hybrid canopy]

I used to go to public worlds a lot when I started... Now that I managed to have a consistent group of friends, I just go to Friends + worlds.

[safe mirage]

me want that

[robust glen]

I hate that majority of the friends I got are in friends+ worlds

I actually like public worlds

Meet new people, dab on people trying to portal you

[rain marlin]

Same here

You find new funny people

[robust glen]

Pick fights with people in the lobbies

Fun as hell

[rain marlin]

Make fun with your avatars

[safe mirage]

I just want to fart on them as soon as I get my vr. Am I the only one? FBT here

[robust glen]

Yeah, but everybody has their own cup of tea

What

[rain marlin]

I have one avatar that spawns a bed and put a sexy jazz song

[hybrid canopy]

What

[rain marlin]

Everyone laughs

[robust glen]

I got fbt but I don't want to fart on people tf

[safe mirage]

need to make a fart particle with sound 🙂

[rain marlin]

What the fuck

[gilded mason]

[robust glen]

[safe mirage]

I'm like XQC who likes to fart

[hybrid canopy]

I mostly use FBT to dance xd

[gilded mason]

i mean

to each their own i guess

[safe mirage]

[rain marlin]

I have an avatar with a pop sound because I love popping in people's noses with my finger

[safe mirage]

[hybrid canopy]

The animation with the bed sounds great, lol

[safe mirage]

I just want to bend over and give them a little sniff

[rain marlin]

Ee

The good thing abaut vr is, you don't need to shower

Ever again

[safe mirage]

ehm

[hybrid canopy]

What?

[rain marlin]

What?

[safe mirage]

you're still in real life there

[rain marlin]

I was joking lol

[safe mirage]

sure

[rain marlin]

This probably doesn't sound convincing at all

On my head this was a funny joke ok?

[safe mirage]

OK

[hybrid canopy]

So... For me, most of the times I go to public worlds, things get awkward...
Not saying always. I've met loads of nice people out there.

[rain marlin]

The trick is a Japanese people dude, they're like God itself

[safe mirage]

except that I can't speak jap

[rain marlin]

Yeah that's the only problem

[safe mirage]

It's random with people, kinda like real life

[hybrid canopy]

Well, I think there will be a few willing to speak english.

[rain marlin]

You can always learn!

[safe mirage]

except in vr they show who they really are

learning jap was on my wish list

[hybrid canopy]

I mean... My native language is Spanish and here you have me writting on English to interact with more ppl

[rain marlin]

Well, I think there will be a few willing to speak english.
@hybrid canopy they will probably say things like, oh oh eigo? No no, no engurishu, japaneeesee

I'm also a Spanish native speaker

[safe mirage]

mine is german, but we have to learn english in school, isnt that everywhere?

[rain marlin]

Yup

[hybrid canopy]

Yeah, so that's the point, I'm sure there'll some willing to speak English :3

[rain marlin]

Tho in Spanish English teaching it's horrible

So you kinda have to learn by yourself or get private schooling

[visual dagger]

I live in the US and learning english in school is optional here

😄

[hybrid canopy]

It's working for me using FX layer

[raw sonnet]

Any other Kon squad members

[hybrid canopy]

Open debug console and make sure that things are not getting stuck

[visual dagger]

is the audio source on your model?

[hybrid canopy]

Good quesiton

Are the light and sound enabling on the same animation?

go to help

#avatar-help

[mossy jacinth]

is it normal to have 2 FX slots with the new update??

[visual dagger]

it's a bug

[mossy jacinth]

both work?

or have to be top or bottom?

[visual dagger]

there's only one, it's showing it twice

[mossy jacinth]

ah okay

[scenic dirge]

okay is it just me or has vrchat messed up the legs for desktop users?

[merry swan]

bendy legs ?

[scenic dirge]

constantly crouched and then pretty much feet in the stomach when crouched

had a look around and its not just my avatars

its like when the height settings for vr users is set too low

[hybrid canopy]

Yup, desktop knees seem to be a bit buggy after latest update.

[warped flower]

also for some reason the animations stopped controlling the head movements after the last update, already checked that the action layer is taking control of head movements before playing an emote but still no luck, I am hoping this is another thing that will get ironed out after fixing the knees

[scenic dirge]

honestly when i first saw it i thought it was something i needed to fix my end after a fair few hours of trail and error seeing if i can fix it this actually comforts me maybe i should have checked other avatars and realise the issue wasnt my end before instantly trying to fix mine 😐

[warped flower]

yea I spent a lot of time troubleshooting problems after the last update and it was all for nothing since it seems to be broken overall for now. Thankfully we have now both figured this out, I was getting so annoyed trying to get it fixed

[scenic dirge]

want me dm you a picture on how broke my avatar is? xD

[warped flower]

lol sure, mine is probably the same, view even got destroyed and multiple functions as well

[raw sonnet]

Would Bolt work with the 3.0 SDK?

[visual dagger]

bolt?

[merry swan]

yes ? the dog from the move ?

[cobalt zealot]

Are avatars 3.0 on quest

[visual dagger]

yes

[calm oasis]

anyone else noticing the classic avatars need an update? Like cookie monster is way to simplified and classic kermit is the least detailed kermit now.

[fluid grotto]

Av3 works fine on quest, it’s still limited. By shaders, triangles, no audio, etc. but if you can do it with bone animations or shape keys, av3.0 has full custom animators and wheel menus, yes

No new limits

[rigid turret]

Is avatar scaling still broke

[visual dagger]

it's removed until further notice

[rigid turret]

Rippp

[visual dagger]

I doubt it was supposed to be used that way to begin with, then people liked it so they supported it, but then it caused a lot of problems so they had to disable it

[rigid turret]

Probably my favorite potential feature and would motivate people to start updating

[toxic arch]

I wonder if I should make an scp-173 avatar? I could make it an object that I spawn and stays in place until i retoggle it, while moving around myself to give the illusion of the statue just moving about when not looked at

[merry swan]

Does the debug menu have a collider on it, sometimes when i open it all the objects near me fly off

[visual dagger]

i seem to remember there being a bug that made it collide with stuff, but that was supposed to have been fixed

[fluid grotto]

Some shaders will collide with it no matter what

[visual dagger]

interesting

[cursive badge]

I have absolutely no idea how to make an avatar

I just started playing

[visual dagger]

probably better off exploring avatar worlds and using those instead

[gray gorge]

Even if you end up using your own avatar eventually, it’s nice to get a sense of what’s out there and what kind of avatar you want

Definitely worth it to bounce around avatar worlds for a while before you even start planning your own

[merry swan]

Pumkin tools support 3.0 now ,thats gonna save me from switching between 2-3 to get the bones copied

[grizzled stone]

would a puppet system that moves a tail around be better in the action layer or gesture layer?

I have mine set up in the action layer and it works fine, but i just wanna make sure

[fluid grotto]

It belongs in gesture

Action is for temporary full override animations

[gaunt gate]

Does anyone here know a 3D artist that might be up to making an Avatar for VRchat? Of course paid for that.

[grizzled stone]

would it be fine without an avatar mask?

[gaunt gate]

What is an Avatar mask exactly?

[grizzled stone]

im aware its required in the base layer but not sure about others

@gaunt gate try the VRCtraders discord

[fluid grotto]

Yes gesture layers need a mask with the transforms you are editing

[gaunt gate]

Do you have an invite link potentially?

[fluid grotto]

You also need to enable them on the top layer

[quiet plover]

What’s the protocol for putting chairs on 3.0 avatars?

[grizzled stone]

top layer?

[quiet plover]

do i use 3.0 chairs or 2.0 chairs?

[hasty marsh]

So far is not possible

For the new sdk

[fluid grotto]

Has anyone managed to trigger the default two-axis puppet that uses VRCFaceBlendH and VRCFaceBlendV? When I upload without any overrides, it doesn't show up

[verbal forum]

what was the temporary fix

for all these leg issues

anyone know where to find the default ik?

ik pose

[errant echo]

my index is coming on sunday, is there anything I need to do to my model to prepare ?

[sand wren]

just make sure your fingers work properly in the humanoid configuration menu

if you get FBT, you need to make sure to check the FBT guide, and sometimes hip flips may have to be used (rig hack) but it fixes most issues currently

[errant echo]

I've already got fbt

luckily fixed the hacks already

[sand wren]

ah

i still have to use one of them

hip flip is my best friend because i honestly dont understand why most of my avatars have this weird side tilted hip

[sturdy smelt]

There's a couple things that still cause fbt wonkiness

[sand wren]

the hip side tilt happens seemingly randomly on some rigs by chance

[sturdy smelt]

Some weird stuff like when the hip bone isn't aligned with the upper legs or if the chest bone is too big

[sand wren]

even if the rig is perfectly symmetrical

so the hip flip is something i still do on some of my avatars

sometimes not required but hopefully it doesnt break with updates

because its literally the only way i can make my avatars fbt compatible

even if i follow the guide exactly

[upper remnant]

https://twitter.com/vr_hai/status/1294476193392218118

[fast crane]

holy christ that animator though

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hai-vr/Just1Int7Toggles/z-res-pictures/Documentation/illustration-animator.png

i feel like it'd be better if they just gave us boolean parameters that they automatically optimize into bitflags, since the motive of SDK3 was moreorless so we didn't have to do hacks like this

[zinc sparrow]

Same concept my own toggles have been using is good

[upper remnant]

automatic and native would be nice

[brave steeple]

I heard it's possible to swap textures in 3.0.
Can anyone confirm this?

[zinc sparrow]

Actually its a bit different
Im using 2 ints for 255 toggles and have ability to toggle syncing them for late joiners or not

[fast crane]

if not a boolean parameter type, at least a more advanced menu callback would be nice

so instead of just "set to x and then to 0" have something like "add 4 and then subtract 4" or something like that, and then emulating bitflags would be at least easier

[warped flower]

they fixed the problems, I am so happy right now :)

literally all my problems are resolved after the last update after the one that broke everything

[errant echo]

@brave steeple swap materials, not textures

[brave steeple]

I see, but been trying to find a way via animation.

No Idea how to.

[errant echo]

just make the clip, click the record button, manually drag the new material on

then end recording

that's what I did

then just check they keyframes, and then delete any extra stuff

[brave steeple]

Ohhhhh ok.

Hmm

[signal sigil]

@zinc sparrow what are you toggling

[zinc sparrow]

camera stuff

[bold jewel]

my model in game stands on the tip of the toes no matter what i do- how can i fix this? i made the model myself

[verbal forum]

is there a night vision shader thats only client side

[loud sail]

with 3.0 if i understand correctly you can use an islocal to activate things only on your end

[tranquil pulsar]

Ooooo, cool idea, maybe have a giant sphere that covers everything with a sort of green layer that you can just toggle on and off locally. Client-sided nightvision.

[verbal forum]

Yeah exactly

How would u pull off something like that

[tranquil pulsar]

Good question. I'm not quite sure of any shaders that would do that. Really you'd just need a sphere that either encompasses everything and has a high af render que, or, you'd need a sphere over your viewport that just discolors things seen through it. I'd ask around in #shaders though, as that's really what's going to make it possible or not

Should be though, I think I've seen stuff done like that before. Both ways even

[verbal forum]

Ive had public avatars that have their own flash light built into their hud

So its definitely possible

[tranquil pulsar]

Oh yeah that's easy. I have a ball of light in my avatar's hands. Super nice on those extra dark maps.

[verbal forum]

Couldnt u just put that over ur viewpoint

[tranquil pulsar]

Yeah but I do it differently. I actually just have a lightsource attached to it. Really loving the expression system because made it possible to have one in either hand

But if you wanted some sort of visual effect, like something that recolors everything, then you'd need the orb and shader

[verbal forum]

Yeah i wana make the night vision a toggle

For dark maps

[austere rose]

the update fix the 3.0 as well. avatar dont crouches

[boreal bobcat]

mine looked like he shit himself

[austere rose]

It was if the descriptor was positionning itself on where was the head head bone. Then the character was crouching a little since head lower

[misty bronze]

What's some kind of average sizes of avatars 😄 ? (Mb)

[sand wren]

mine are always like 10 MB large and upload really fast

[misty bronze]

uh

um

[sand wren]

you might think thats impossible but crunch compression is amazing

some of my textures start out at 5 MB

and crunch compress to like 1

so make sure to use that

[misty bronze]

Mine is always about 10 minutes of uploading + processing or whatever (got 10Mbps upload)

[sand wren]

increases load times significantly

it takes a bit to crunch compress your textures but

check out the size before and after in the little inspector window

u can set the compressor quality to 100 but don't use high quality crunch compress mode

i usually do normal with 50-100 quality level

another way to save on space is use .mp3 or .ogg for sounds

.wav is larger

[misty bronze]

i use .ogg for all i think

nvm .mp3 + .ogg

[sand wren]

another is don't use high poly or vert counts

the more polys the more space needed to store them all

idk how to check avatar size but u can check world size

its not the same as adding up all the numbers

[misty bronze]

I optimized my avatar soo ill see the size soon after i upload.. but before opti it was 70Mb

[sand wren]

because it makes a gzip compressed asset bundle afaik

[misty bronze]

I got tons of animations and everything.. 😄

#avatar-showcase @sand wren

[toxic arch]

Is there any easy way to add new gestures without erasing the default ones? because atm its a bit annoying trying to add ur own gesture and then it goes "lmao u lose all the og"

[visual dagger]

copy the example gesture file from the sdk folder and edit that

instead of starting a new one

[lofty shale]

hi, I'm still fairly new to vrchat and I want to get into avatar commissions. Does anyone know where I could start? I'm pretty much okay with the modelling pipeline but the entire putting it into vrchat is daunting^^ any help is really appreciated

[visual dagger]

youtube tutorials is probably your best bet

myself and @neon finch have been posting 3.0 specific tutorials but also alot of 2.0 stuff available

[toxic arch]

its easy to get a model into vrchat as an avatar

what is difficult is making it special

protip: dont add custom menus and props for the love of god do not

save yourself

[visual dagger]

lol

[neon finch]

protip: dont add custom menus and props for the love of god do not
@toxic arch I don't agree with that

[lofty shale]

I kind of want to make myself learn that as well ^^|| but in terms of commissions will it be worth it learning the avatar 3.0 update?

[visual dagger]

most people are going to want 3.0 features, so i'd say yes

not to mention in the long run, 3.0 is easier and more flexible than 2.0 for almost everything so i'd start there

[lofty shale]

Can you hit me up with a link to your tutorials?

[hasty hemlock]

myself I quite pleased with some of the new features like now I have analog tail wagging

[visual dagger]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjmDHuhHH5ntRjqECGLONFQ

most of them were made during the beta so there maybe a few bits here and there that are outdated, but i've been working on new versions

[toxic arch]

@neon finch nobody deserves to go through this pain

[visual dagger]

custom menus are dirt easy, and props aren't too bad either

[toxic arch]

my experience so far has been

"i dont know how i fixed it, but it works"

[visual dagger]

hah

[toxic arch]

then again

aint that just devving anyhow

[visual dagger]

pretty much

[lofty shale]

sorry if this is kind of a noob question, what's the difference between the avatar 3.0 and the 2.0 one?

[visual dagger]

i made a 20 year career of "wait, that worked? how?"

[lofty shale]

I cant seem to find any documentation on the 2.0 update

[toxic arch]

2.0 is much more simple, but also has less "flexibility"

[neon finch]

Direct animator controller access, instead of just 7 gestures that trigger certain things

[toxic arch]

3.0 is more advanced but also has far far more options

[neon finch]

16 synced variables, unlimited layers, infinite possibilities

[visual dagger]

@lofty shale 3.0 was recently released, 2.0 is the old version

[toxic arch]

im just

waiting for someone to make a fully playable pacman game with the menus

actually- fuck it, straight up doom

[candid forum]

wait no

that's too much power

[lofty shale]

Thanks for the help guys! Do any of you have any socials where I could see your works? @neon finch @visual dagger

[visual dagger]

I don't, just my youtube videos

[hasty hemlock]

https://twitter.com/vr_hai/status/1294476193392218118?s=20

[neon finch]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bBXy2-oCmEEHUeaAD16VrOIWQ89K5lOHkkpeY2YsTqo/edit?usp=sharing

I guess

If you mean a portfolio

And ofc youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6pqxF0s6FSu6oVm-70lzqQ?view_as=subscriber

[rain marlin]

"i dont know how i fixed it, but it works"
@toxic arch yeah thats pretty much it

[uneven rock]

hello, i have a small question, how big can the icons be inside of the avatar 3.0 menu?

[visual dagger]

not sure if there's a max size, but the example ones are 256x256

[uneven rock]

ok thanks

[sand wren]

there is

if you make them big enough vrchat just resizes it for you anyways

giving you a warning that you need to auto fix

[uneven rock]

i know but they look stretched and bad xD

[sand wren]

what does

if you make them small enough they get scaled up and look disgusting

shrinking isnt too bad tho

[uneven rock]

hm

because earlier i made quite a wide icon and it got squished XD

[sand wren]

oh yea u cant make them arbitrary dimensions

its always a square aspect ratio

[uneven rock]

hmhm

[sand wren]

if you want it to be wide make it square size

at the cost of it being smaller

[rain marlin]

you need to make same size icons

like if your pic its 235x300 is gonna get squished

it needs to be 300x300 or 500x500 or 50000000x500000000

[uneven rock]

hmhm

ok thank you

[rain marlin]

good luck

[uneven rock]

it's gonna be easy x3

[sand wren]

same size icons aka square aspect ratio

[trim prawn]

Anyone's 3.0 Action animations break as well?

[restive rivet]

Break how?

There's a lot of factors and a lot of ways to break

[neon finch]

Hmm, Anyone know some ways to use blender? I'm trying to make a model.

I have a picture of them, And i'm having an issue sculpting them.

[restive rivet]

You should try #3d-modeling

But if you won't retopo afterwards I don't recommend sculpting

[trim prawn]

The animation won't play.

[restive rivet]

Check the official blender youtube channel for Blender tutorials and search "modeling a character in blender" for a playlist about modeling characters

The animation won't play.
Did you check the state of the animator and the values of the parameters involved in the debug menu?

[trim prawn]

Ahhhhhh it works now once I reset VRChat. Thank you for telling me about Debug menu.

[restive rivet]

No problem! The debug menu is really useful when trying to fix stuff, it usually tells you all you need to know

[brave iron]

I'm getting a vr headset soon and i really want an avatar that noone else has, so is there a way to pay someone to make you one?

Im not even sure if this is the right place to ask questions like this :/

[restive rivet]

Yeah many people make avatar comissions, not sure what's the appropiate channel to ask though

[compact pasture]

question, how can i make an object on my avatar that is only visible to me? change it's layer to playerlocal?

[neon finch]

Well you could always use Transparent shader

[compact pasture]

I want to still be able to see it. Just noone else really needs to. it's a camera, for use with an avatar that I frequently playspace move underground with.

but I dont just want a plane sitting there under my avatar for the world to comment on

[restive rivet]

Disable it by default, then make a layer in the FX controller that goes to an animation that enables it only if isLocal is true

It will only get enabled for you, isLocal is really useful

[compact pasture]

🤔
hmm
mite be neet.

would also make it not need to be on all the time...

pretty sure that wouldnt be great for performance

[restive rivet]

Oh yeah you can mix it with a toggle

Just add both conditions in one transition and another one to go back

[compact pasture]

yeah thats probably a better idea tbh

how do i assign islocal?

should that be another parameter?

[restive rivet]

You only have to add it in the animator, don't add it in the expressionoarameters

It's an internal parameter

[compact pasture]

is it just me
I could swear before the recent two updates, when i had say, a toggle on a radial menu, i could exit out of the menu and have the animation keep going, until i went back into the menu and toggled it back off, but now that no longer works, the moment you leave the radial menu it turns off

[glad kayak]

@compact pasture A toggle should remain active until something else edits the exact same parameter that the toggle is controlling. Does it stop when you leave the radial menu entirely, or when you exit that specific sub menu?

[compact pasture]

The moment I exit the radial menu.
I have an animation on a speed dial. If I leave the speed dial the animation ends. If I exit the radial altogether, it ends

I haven't touched the avatar

Meanwhile plain ol toggles stay active just fine

[glad kayak]

If you have a parameter set to change when a radial puppet is open, it will only stay on for as long as that radial puppet remains open. This is different from the value the radial itself changes.

The Parameter will reset to zero when the radial puppet is closed. The Parameter Rotation will remain at whatever you set it to.

[quaint harbor]

Is the way of uploading an avatar still the same as 2.0?

[silver adder]

Use SDK2.

Not possible to make a 3.0 avatar with identical behavior to 2.0.

[quaint harbor]

Okay. Time do lots of research.

My whole model has been trial and error the whole way through.

[sand wren]

na @quaint harbor

use sdk2 if you want to use old system, cuz its still supported

but sdk3 if u wanna use new system

its a lot different from sdk2 and none of the vrchat related stuff can be carried over not even animation overrides

[neon finch]

anyone have the mexi-kon avatar ive looked for it about a week

[dusky scaffold]

mexi-kon is made by Unie, if you find it from anyone else it's stolen (please report the uploader) and Unie violated the low-poly-kon public avatar ToS so his kon world got taken down.

[teal path]

Tbf the process to get allowance to make your kon public is a pain in the ass

[nimble dawn]

hey y'all i'm looking in to making my first avatar, do you have any tips for that?

[patent laurel]

how much do you know about Unity first?

[nimble dawn]

uhh

very little

[patent laurel]

are you looking to make a 3.0 or a 2.0 avatar, or are you still unsure?

[nimble dawn]

i'm unsure

i don't really know the difference between them

although i suppose whichever is easier to make

[patent laurel]

well, id say 2.0 is easier to make, at least for me, we can move this to dms if you want me to guide you through it

[nimble dawn]

sure

[true sentinel]

Does anyone know in general what's allowed / not allowed when it comes to putting scripts on an avatar?

[sand wren]

nothing

[hasty hemlock]

no scripts are allowed on avatars

[sand wren]

u cant put any scripts on your avatar

aside from the very specifically whitelisted ones in the documentation

like FinalIK scripts, dynamicbones, vrc spatial audio component, and the like

and those are just placeholders for security reasons when uploaded

so that users cant inject code into malicious copy of the tool

[true sentinel]

I see 👍

[radiant marsh]

Can someone help me, when I try to upload an avatar it says no asset has been set for This build

[restive rivet]

did you add an avatar descriptor?

[pine crag]

I have a bit of a problem. I set an animator to my avatar and all of the sudden now it's spitting out that I don't have certain bones set.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722760686605697064/744677446867091626/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722760686605697064/744684639322374184/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722760686605697064/744682696244068382/unknown.png

[lime plume]

#avatar-help

[pine crag]

Oh oops, thought I was there.

[finite spade]

Hey I’m using blender how come when I put a avatar in the sculpting option goes away?

[lime plume]

#3d-modeling

[hazy wind]

So, this is not exactly help but is it actually possible to obtain the velocity of certain bones to trigger animations?

I saw someone showcasing them and I was like " :0 that's so cool, you can trigger slash sfxs and spells by moving a thing in a particular way"

[stone pilot]

Im brain storming and planning some stuff, what are some toys you guys would want to see in VRC? We have spring joints obviously but I want to branch out and bring new things to the community!

[grizzled stone]

is it possible to copy layers from one controller to another?

[last shuttle]

Can probably do it with a script

Flexuh I want a toy hammer that make the sound when u squeeze a rubber duck 🔨

[stone pilot]

Goddamnit ten ten I KNOW

That’s literally so easy ten ten just use a gesture combination

Or use Reros jiggle FX I feel like you could configure that to be what you need

[slender notch]

The best part is that your toggle could spawn the hammer and sound device and just enable the sound device with the hand gesture 🤩

I think toggle is always gonna be my favorite thing

[last shuttle]

oh i couldnt find a good hammer model and am too dumb to make

[raw ginkgo]

So, on a scale of 1-10 how broken is 3.0 in all your guy's opinions? 1 being stable, 5 being decent and manage, and 10 being unstable and broken as heck

[slender notch]

4

My biggest issue is disappearing at random on reset

[silver adder]

5

Plenty of annoyances, but nothing game-breaking I've ran into at least.

[pearl dust]

5

[raw ginkgo]

Ok, I've dipped my toes into making avatars awhile before 3.0 but stopped ever since 3.0 was in beta. I've been checking up on the updates about it and have been waiting for it to get some tweaks, I just didn't want to start making avatars again and it just blows up in my face

[late tartan]

2, most problems I've had have been mistakes on my part

[modest karma]

hey anyone here own virtual lens 2 and successfully set it up?

[twilit oracle]

3.0 isn't broken, but the entry level to do things has sky-rocketed. I genuinely prefer the ease of use of 2.0 rather than 3.0 no matter how much more customizebility it offers. If I can't use it, the potential is wasted afteral.

[visual dagger]

While I agree that the ease of use of 2.0 was nice, the fact that you simply couldn't do even simple things because of the limitations was a huge downer. I'd much rather have unlimited potential than be lazy and have a crappy system

Plus looking at it objectively, people only think 2.0 is easier because that's what they're used to

Starting from nothing for the first time, it's actually easier to setup an avatar in 3.0 without relying on broken ass cats in blender that rarely actually worked, and making animations is the same

[twilit oracle]

Eh, disagree. 2.0 fit my needs perfectly, 3.0 seems overly complicated for the point of being overly complicated. Never had issues setting up a basic avatar in 2.0 and that hasn't changed in 3.0, still basically the same, doing anything original, custom animations and stuff, no idea where to start and don't have the time or patience for it either.

[visual dagger]

Well, if being lazy is the problem, how'd you do animations in 2.0? And if you didn't, then you obviously don't need to in 3.0 either

As for where to start, there are tutorials around

Not as many pre-made stuff for avatars or tutorials yet since it's new, but it'll happen

[twilit oracle]

Being lazy is not the problem, not having a lot of time is. Animations in 2.0 were easy enough, at least for the little things I did. I watched one of those tutorials, sounded like space magic to me and was assininengly long. As for the lack of tutorials at the moment, it'd be helpful if the documentations actually explained stuff

[visual dagger]

Animations are animations, it's still unity and the same version to boot

how to activate the animations is a little different

All in all though, if you prefer 2.0, then use it instead

It still works fine

[twilit oracle]

Until they force us to use 3.0, like they probably will.

[visual dagger]

Not any time soon with the amount of avatars already out there

By the time it does actually happen, if it happens at all, there will be fully fleshed out documentation and plenty of tutorials and examples to choose from

[rain marlin]

Plus looking at it objectively, people only think 2.0 is easier because that's what they're used to
@visual dagger yeah, 3.0 looks imposible but if youre used to unity using the 2.0 you get it in like 30 minutes with a couple of tutorials

[visual dagger]

Yeah, as a developer I'm used to learning new things, new versions, new processes, etc so it doesn't bother me much. It also makes it pretty easy to compare things a bit objectively despite personal preference.

[atomic blade]

I think anyone just getting into it should go with 3.0 since it makes spawning props and particle systems so much simpler and menu driven

[rain marlin]

once you learned it its waay better, its just superior

[visual dagger]

2.0 bugged me a lot because unity 'can' do that thing you want, but the sdk wouldn't allow it

now it does, so much easier

[rain marlin]

yeah

also the left and right gestures

[visual dagger]

yeah

[rain marlin]

is just amazing

you can do tons of things

before i had an animation that only activated with a closed hand, but it worked on boths so it was anoying, now it doesnt happend

[visual dagger]

and now that they have most (if not all) layers as examples in the sdk, it's really easy to start with the basic defaults and edit from there

[rain marlin]

way easier not only to make but to use in game

yeah theyre super clear

[visual dagger]

during the beta it was more of a trial and error, which is why i started making youtube tutorials 😛

[rain marlin]

wanna crouch? go to crouch

wanna afk? go afk

wanna do hand gestures? go to hand gestures

thx dude, tutorials helps a lot arround here XD

[visual dagger]

currently working on replacing my beta tutorials with new ones for the current version

[upper remnant]

@twilit oracle 3.0 lacks override controllers for some reason. that's the biggest hurdle i see which complicates things for users that don't need animator controllers. the addition of full capacity animator controllers and syncing is a game changer for animators which cannot be understated. toy vs real tool

[modest sun]

Is there a reason not to use the same controller for both Gesture and FX? If they are each masked out, the transforms will have no effect in FX, and the non transforms don't matter in Gesture right?

Just wondering since it's frustrating to have to make two parallel state machines for gestures to do slightly different stuff

All because one rotates bones and the other does something else

[atomic blade]

I ran into a similar problem since certain controller types require hand gestures for fingers to move while others use some sort of procedural system. Didn't even consider it when I was doing a commission

[rain marlin]

wait you have to make 2 diferent?

i always maked one

and it works for me sooo

[modest sun]

no, you don't need to make 2 different

I just wanted confirmation that people make one controller and use it in both slots

the documentation makes it kind of unclear, and I'm having trouble thinking of a reason why having the same thing twice wouldn't work

I almost wish VRChat was like here's the GestureFX controller. put your hand gestures and all your blend shapes and FX in here, and VRChat just automatically put it in both playable layer slots internally

[visual dagger]

its a performance thing

[modest sun]

it would make things so much simpler to think about... Locomotion, Additive and Action (affect all humanoid bones), and GestureFX (affects hands, non-humanoid transforms and FX stuff like blendshapes, materials)

no it's not?

[visual dagger]

why run all the logic connected to hand movements when all you want to do is wink

[modest sun]

1. unity always calculates the mecanim bone weights on all animator layers, but then they get masked out.
2. there are only like 50 or so mecanim muscles, so it's not a big deal

[visual dagger]

and the documentation is pretty clear, non-transform animations only go on FX and transform animations do not go on FX

[modest sun]

the excuse for why vrchat didn't do X isn't performance. it's because the implementation does need two separate Playable Layers

yes, it is

that's why there is confusion

but during prerelease a lot of people were putting the same controller in both, and I just recommended that to a friend because it saves a lot of time to reuse animators

and that's why I'm asking

[visual dagger]

it has to do with syncing and mirrors, if your non-transforms are not on fx, mirros won't work right

specifically, i'm not sure about the other way around

[modest sun]

but the layers are set to override, and you do it again on FX

ok, so there is possible desync in mirrors related to FX stuff you touch in the gesture controller. That sounds like a reasonable explanation

[visual dagger]

ok, but if you have 2 animations changing the same blendshape, which one is shown?

[modest sun]

the one that overrides the other

[visual dagger]

which is?

[modest sun]

that's well defined, and the FX layer comes after so the FX layer will override the earlier stuff

[visual dagger]

if you have both layers playing the same script, which one is it?

[modest sun]

they are applied in order

[visual dagger]

if FX always overrides, then why use anything else?

[modest sun]

because FX can't control bone transforms

so we need to do some things that do bone transforms in the Gesture layer

that was what brought me here

[visual dagger]

so now you have 2 layers playing the same 2 sets of 'animation' but despite it running 4 animations you can only see 2 because it overrides

[modest sun]

something like that I think

[visual dagger]

sounds like wasted performance to me

[modest sun]

now you're back to performance

[visual dagger]

well yeah

[modest sun]

this isn't about performance, and quite frankly I don't care about performance because my time is more important

[visual dagger]

the layers are divided for mirror and sync reasons

[modest sun]

if performance was an issue, VRChat would have taken it into account in performance rank

[visual dagger]

the reason you dont duplicate everything is performance

[modest sun]

but they're letting these things run even on Quest, so it's not performance

NO!

And if it is performance, then that's validation that the method works

[visual dagger]

so you don't think running 4 animations instead of 2 has a performance impact?

[modest sun]

maybe? but performance isn't about optimizing randomly

it's a tradeoff of developer time and overall performance

I'm not going to waste hours of my time duplicating a whole state machine so that I can save 0.01ms per frame

[visual dagger]

they don't restrict people from having 16kx16k textures either, doesn't mean it doesnt have a performance hit

[modest sun]

that has a tangible, measurable impact on performance

[visual dagger]

take that 0.01ms per frame and multiply by 10k users

it matters

[modest sun]

I have seen no data showing that 2x animator layers has a tangible, non-negligable impact on performance. Care to do science before making stuff up?

I made up that number as an example

and generally, VRChat worlds are capped at 80, not 10000

[visual dagger]

so did i, i don't know if there's 10k players

[modest sun]

hint: there are no worlds which permit more than 80 players

[visual dagger]

it's not always about player performance

it's the entire server system

[modest sun]

ok, let's move on from this. this convo is spamming the chat and is completely unproductive

if you're passionate about avatar animator performance, come back with some actaul data

[pallid pasture]

No it’s fun to watch

[rain marlin]

yeah

this is what the chat is for

[modest sun]

Yes, I have made a 1.4GB animator controller and seen unity take over 1 second per update tick. I know it's possible to make bad performing animators

[rain marlin]

so keep going please

[visual dagger]

lol, yeah ok, i'll go do 'science' to win an argument on the internet

[modest sun]

you don't need to convince me that animators have an impact on performance. The question is: is it non-negligible]

[visual dagger]

you're the one that wants proof, go talk to developers

[rain marlin]

LoL

[modest sun]

I'm not putting a 1.4GB animator controller on my avatar

[visual dagger]

no, but YOU are not the problem

[modest sun]

no, I want to talk about if it's functionally acceptable

[visual dagger]

it's everyone doing it at the same time

[modest sun]

Premise: I'm willing to make my avatar 2x slower if it saves me hours of development time

that seems reasonable to me

and it's 2x animator evaulation time, not 2x mesh or 2x material or 2x particle systems

[visual dagger]

and then they finally update the safety system and no one can see your avatars because you were lazy

[modest sun]

so it's not actaully 2x slower, for sure

[visual dagger]

🙂

[rain marlin]

and then they finally update the safety system and no one can see your avatars because you were lazy
@visual dagger indeed

[modest sun]

no, because then someone will have done research and said what the problem is and I will have an actual tangible target

and then I will fix it

because now there's data

[visual dagger]

or i'm wrong and it doesn't actually matter

but i'm just basing what i've seen the devs talking about

[modest sun]

I haven't seen a single dev talk about animator controller performance, nor is there a single tip about it on the whole Avatar 3.0 docs

again - I'm happy to optimize, but I need something hard to optimize against

[visual dagger]

they've said to do it a certain way

there has to be a reason why

[modest sun]

not for performance reasons. they said due to something about mirrors

[visual dagger]

your opinion on it doesn't factor in

[modest sun]

you literally brought it up and I agreed that was a possibility

wat

[visual dagger]

no, having non-transforms on the fx layer was for mirrors

[modest sun]

yes!@

so I agree that's possible

[visual dagger]

that has nothing to do with duplicating everything onto layers where it's not supposed to be

[modest sun]

I don't care about negligible performance impact

[visual dagger]

it says specifically to NOT put transforms on fx

and NOT put non-transforms anywhere else

so by duplicating, you've ignored their instructions

for whatever reason

[modest sun]

there are two ways to interpret that:

1. Do not put transforms on FX because they won't work have no effect and you're wasting your time.
2. Do not put transforms on FX because it will break things and cause problems.

I'm assuming the intent was (1) not (2)

[visual dagger]

there's sure to be an impact of some sort, that's WHY it's stated that way

[modest sun]

because that's why there is an Avatar Mask

Avatar Masks prevent curves which affect certain things like muscles or transforms from having an effect, hence not causing problems

at least in theory

[rain marlin]

damm im eating while watching this, better than telenovelas

[visual dagger]

well, since people said it works, your assumtion of #1 is wrong

[modest sun]

damn I did a classic oops

[visual dagger]

so it must be #2

[modest sun]

I said "won't work" when I meant "no effect"

[visual dagger]

same thing

[modest sun]

no effect is perfect 👍

I want no effect

[visual dagger]

others stated it works, thus has effect

[modest sun]

because that means nothing breaks, and the other copy of the animator controller will have the effect

which is why the whole system works, despite having no effect

[visual dagger]

i'm not even talking about duplicates

[modest sun]

well I am

[visual dagger]

blendshapes in gesture layer works

just not in mirrors

[modest sun]

oh?

ah ok

[visual dagger]

it plays the animation either way

[modest sun]

since they set weights of all transform layers to 0

that was actually useful info, thanks

[visual dagger]

don't get me wrong, my avatar has like 140K polys and 21 mesh renderers, i'm not even one to complain about performance or "doing it right" I'm just saying the devs said to do it a certain way and they probably have a reason

[modest sun]

yes, they even said what the reason was: it has an effect on mirrors

[visual dagger]

again, that's ONLY for "why blendshapes on FX"

that's not the whole explination

that has nothing to do with "why non-transforms ONLY on fx"

[modest sun]

true, maybe not. so it's helpful to have people say "I tried X and Y happened"

[visual dagger]

which is explicitly stated in the docs

along with transforms basically anywhere BUT FX

[modest sun]

hmmmmm yeah that's a tricky one

[visual dagger]

so, can you duplicate everything and have it work? sure

did the devs explicitly state certain things MUST go somewhere specific? also yes

[modest sun]

I have my hypothesized answer for that though...

When they said non-transforms ONLY on fx, maybe what they meant is non-transforms won't always work if they are on other layers

which I'm fine with because I always override them with the same things on the actual FX layer

[visual dagger]

now, if you can get everything to work properly for local, others, and the mirror then why not

[modest sun]

so my hypothesis is they wrote things the way they did, because they never considered the possibility of using the same animator controller on both Gesture and FX

[visual dagger]

but if you start having troubles, it's not done right so there's a lot of troubleshooting to do

[modest sun]

yep! tha's what I want to find out

I'll also specify, I'm often ok with slight desync in mirrors, since it only affects me (the wearer)

[visual dagger]

kinda like people with 'broken' avatars because they have the knees backwards to fix a different problem a year ago that they couldn't be bothered to do properly

[modest sun]

well, it's a question of am I willing to spend hours duplicating animator layers to "do it right"

[visual dagger]

now they all whine because it's "broken" after the update

[modest sun]

and not just layers, literally duplicating animation clips

[visual dagger]

true, if you really have that much to duplicate then it may matter

[modest sun]

yes, that's my issue

I make complicated stuff because I like complicated stuff

but I don't like doing complicated stuff twice

[visual dagger]

my clothes switcher has like 24 animations, they were a little tedious to setup since they all have to turn everything off as well as turn something on

[modest sun]

does your clothes switcher move transforms?

[visual dagger]

but, copy/paste make it go faster

no, all those are on a seperate layer, but they may still listen to the same parameter

since i don't like doing things twice, all of my stuff is spread out so it can be used for multiple things

[modest sun]

imagine one piece of clothing required moving one of your transforms to make it fit right, or you want to animate some outfit change by moving it around.

now you have the same problem I ran into

and the easy answer is: do the transform and put it into both FX and gesture slots

[visual dagger]

if an outfit switch has a smile attached, i just use a parameter driver to active the smile, but hand poses can also use smile

[modest sun]

ah ok

I mean that does work I guess

[visual dagger]

i keep it as multi-functional as possible

[modest sun]

but it makes it harder to think about things, since you now need a special parameter for things where FX might affect transform movement

and a driver as well as special transitions in another animator

but yeah maybe that is the "correct" way to do it

[visual dagger]

depends, my hand gestures as an example have a toggle for blendshapes on/off

[rough peak]

Where can i find kiryu kazuma skin

huhu

[visual dagger]

basically works the opposite as the gesture lock

[modest sun]

@rough peak wrong chat. check in #vrchat-general-2 or #vrchat-general-1

[visual dagger]

so i can move my hands, but the face doesn't change, or toggle it and the face changes too

[modest sun]

yeah that's cool

[visual dagger]

using that toggle, along with other parameter drivers i can manipulate things differently from other actions

[modest sun]

you can actually do that with a Layer Weight Driver or whatever it's called

which is kind of a cool tool I've never played with

[visual dagger]

yeah, you can use layer weights too

[modest sun]

the one thing I did try is Direct Blend Tree and the only thing I can say is I never want to touch one again.

[visual dagger]

hell, you could have 3 layers with the same toggle and transitions but different animations and shift between them

[modest sun]

yes this is actually a really cool way to do it

[visual dagger]

or blend them based on 50/50 weights

[modest sun]

I haven't seen anyone showoff a design using the weight system but it's really clever

I'm actually sad I never thought of it when I designed the thing I was making

[visual dagger]

i haven't used it to much affect so far, but i tinkered a little

mainly with blendshapes since my avatar has like 80+ and i usually only use ~10

when i have the time i plan on making them all blend seamlessly

[modest sun]

ooh like a paging memory bank type system

[visual dagger]

basically the idea is to have a 'frown' but the harder i squeeze the controller the frown becomes angry

because it'll blend through layers, not just another face

then, using a 2-axis control you can have the blending from frown to smile, but the squeezed controller blends from angry to malicious smile

or something along those lines

kind of a 2 way blend

[modest sun]

that sounds cool. I wish I was good enough with art to define what a "malicious smile" looks like vs a "normal smile" or "angry".

but I guess the puppet allows you to kind of blend and you can keep moving the joystick around until the smile is perfect

[visual dagger]

yeah, plus once you figure it out, you can just drive the parameter to that value from your transition and not have to create an additional animation for it

i've thought about going even further and separating out each 'face part' so that combos can be done in the logic instead of the animations

it would take more parameters, but could be fun

[neon finch]

yeah, plus once you figure it out, you can just drive the parameter to that value from your transition and not have to create an additional animation for it
@visual dagger blend tree with overlaping animations on the axes the the gesture weigth drives?

[visual dagger]

basically

[neon finch]

I like it, but how would it behave with wands/index hmm?

[visual dagger]

a 2-axis controller uses 2 parameters to determind a 'location' on the axis, so once you know the right location you can use the parameter driver to set those numbers specifically without actually using the 2-axis controller manually

but the 2-axis controller would still function as normal as well

although translating parameter values to a blendtree isn't something i've actually done directly, so it maybe theoretical in that specific case

at least without duplicating animations

[neon finch]

gesture would be a transition condition, and weigth the actual float driving the blend.

[visual dagger]

yeah, it would mostly depend on if you have any conditions blocking it from getting to the blendtree, it would just take careful planning i think

[neon finch]

spaguetty animators here i come :3

[visual dagger]

lol

that reminds me though, i need to finish recording my videos so I can make tutorials on more advanced stuff

kind of a bummer i need to update/replace the older beta videos since enough changed between then and now

[neon finch]

F avatar ipd

[rapid cedar]

the avatar 3.0 prone animation transition from idle to custom movement is so weird that the hip would clips through the back of the avatar

2.0 prone animations are even better than 3.0🙄

but I come to 3.0 because 2.0 has bad crouch animations that I wanna replace

[fluid grotto]

I wish going from animation to tracking via the behavior didn’t have the pop and was smoother

Can’t really blend them and make it unnoticeable when the whole avatar resets for a frame

[visual dagger]

would it help to transition to the idle pose, then switch to tracking?

pretty sure that's how they do it in the examples for locomotion and such, might help

[kindred steppe]

you have sdk 3 with easy tool

[fluid grotto]

Even the examples have a pretty bad pop when you land from jumping

[fluid grotto]

How does the default action layer change the menu emotes to the sitting actions when sitting? That’s the only thing I can’t figure out

They did not provide an example of that menu so when I override it it’s gone

[small crescent]

VRCSDK/Examples3/Animation/Controllers/vrc_AvatarV3ActionLayer.controller has an example

[fluid grotto]

That’s the layer but not the menu

It has 16 actions, 8 for standing and 8 for sitting, and the menu let it control all 16 Depending on if you are sitting or standing

I can’t duplicate that behavior

It’s like the menu automatically changes when you are sitting

[small crescent]

yeah no idea.. probably hard coded in the game with the VRCEmote stuff

[rose zinc]

Im trying to make a 3d plane with an icon above my avatar’s head which is simple and ive done it before way back when but it wont let me upload it it says the mesh renderer will be deleted by the client. Is there a way around this?

[fluid grotto]

Can you post a screen cap of the error? Mesh renders are allowed.

[rose zinc]

Well now its letting me upload, it wasnt when i attached the plane to the avatar armature, but now that its off the avatar i dont think it will show up in game

Nope doesnt show up

Oh wait it said mesh collider not renderer

[small crescent]

would it be possible to have a separate world space physical object like a balloon that has a dynamic bone + collider, which you can push around with the colliders on your hand?

[merry swan]

If you want the menu to change when you sit, its vrcemote greater then 8+ (also have <17 but dont really tneed that) that will swap to the other menu, you can just route that to standing to use the same

[fluid grotto]

Yeah just remove the mesh collider the plane itself is allowed

[rose zinc]

I removed the collider and it shows up but now the shader is blank its just pink square

Got it! All good

[fallow sequoia]

@fluid grotto The default action menu only switches for seated automatically for AV2 avatars (it is hardcoded to simulate what the old Emotes did). For AV3 you need to provide a separate sub-menu for seated emotes or change your Action layer to switch on the Seated parameter (but your menu won't change). You can take the example (which already switches on seated) and remap all the seated emotes to 1-8, as long as you realize that the menu entries will now map to different emotes, depending on your seated state.

[fluid grotto]

Got it. Was wondering what was going on

Thanks

[dense swan]

ccan anyone help me do an avatar im new and i would really like to learn how to do avatars, animations and stuff

[unborn crag]

Hi ^^ the position of my avatar leg are really weird now, he seem to stand like a frog or something..

[pallid pasture]

Punt your leg through the floorboards

[unborn crag]

he spread his leg , i don't know if it's because of the new patch

but, he didn't do that before, so i don't know..

^^; i wanted to send a screen here, but i can't

what should i do , to make it look like before? * ^ *

and when i stop moving, his leg seem to "reset" to his frog position x)

i don't know how to say it, but he spread his leg x)

[fluid grotto]

Use #avatar-help if you need to upload or embed images

[unborn crag]

ohh.. thanks ^^

[distant egret]

does anyone have any avatar 2.0/3.0 worldi suggestions? 🥺 👉 👈

[modest torrent]

what kind of avatar?

for furries go to FurHub, there is tons of portals to Furry avatar worlds

[distant egret]

not for furries; I'm not one

[tawny folio]

who here can help me with a hand puppet avatar?

[compact pasture]

vrchat, pls fix analog fist gestures

[fluid grotto]

Is it still broke? Thought newest SDK fixed that

[compact pasture]

if they did they only made mention of vive/index

im not sure this is an sdk issue so much as a vrchat issue

2.0 analog fist still works fine

and debug for 3.0 shows it registers the analog input, but the game treats it as binary

[fluid grotto]

Even if you override it with your own controller?

It’s possible the default layers are just bad. Will check today, but I can only test with index.

[pallid fable]

can anyone link a tutorial / screenshot on making a looping animation and making it be toggled by a parameter like velocity?

I know that's kind of specific but really a tutorial or example of any of the involved systems would be appreciated

[merry swan]

You need to set it so it detect VelocityZ/Y/X , higher then or lower then , kinda hard to explain , i use Velocity = less 0.5 or greater then 0.5 to trigger certain animations/movements , you need to add your own floats since only locomotion usually have that

[tawny folio]

how do i make a hand puppet avatar?

[slender notch]

Attach avatar to rigs hand

The most simple way to say it. Lol

[tawny folio]

ok, how do i make my avatar invisible?

i want it to be like other hand puppet avatars

where the hand is the avatar you know?

[slender notch]

Delete the mesh/hide it in Unity

[tawny folio]

ok

ill try that

[olive kraken]

how do it put an image as a prop?
like for an avatar please help me

and how do i make more than 1 object for a dif gesture?

[azure lark]

@compact pasture analogue gesture with the example controller provided by the sdk doesn't work from what I tried, you can get it to work by replacing the fist state with a blend tree that uses the weight parameters as inputs

[stark narwhal]

Why are the new default animations atrociously bad

[silver adder]

It's a bug with the IK, not the animations.

[warped prawn]

Is like.... the sdk 2 not letting mirrors see you talk anymore?

[silver adder]

I wish i had known about Crunch Compression sooner... Setting it to 100% quality TANKS the file size of my textures, with a minimal impact on quality.

[opaque sequoia]

So don't try to build and test an Avatar containing an 1 GB Animator. It doesn't work...

[grizzled acorn]

what does it have, some kind of fork bomb of animations? lol

[floral rock]

Avatar 3.0 functions are fully available to quest avatars right, or is there functionality limited in some way?

[merry swan]

Still havnt tried one, its on the 'list' but they have the same limits as 2.0 i guess

[floral rock]

I assume controls can’t allow adjustments to blocked things like other shader material, what about total poly count, hidden meshes still count to total quest poly limit right, so even a toggle between two meshes that stay under the count, the total of the two could still place over the limit ?

[merry swan]

It counts everything ,that havnt changed

[rose zinc]

When using poiyomi shaders on any avatar it will not allow me to upload any body know why?

[floral rock]

what error is it giving

[muted gazelle]

@rose zinc description what exactly happens when you try to upload otherwise we can't say much

[blazing oak]

ill never move to sdk 3 until its been made easyer to port avatars over

[slim pewter]

Would it be weird if I ask one of you to make me an avatar?

[neon finch]

How do I animate my avatar's fingers. When ever I try to, it doesn't record the rotation changes

[modest sun]

@opaque sequoia in case you're wondering, the 1GB animator controller in question was a full voxel block selection system, combined with inventory management, hotbar/recents and a crafting system with 9 slots, takes a breath in a single animator.

Crafting done using a transitions matching an exact set of item inputs to produce an output item.

This was the original implementation of inventory management I used for VRMC (made in SDK2, pre-udon). It fell apart for obvious reasons, and was split up into individual animators, one for crafting, two for inventory and one for tracking the currently active block.

That said, I think it would be theoretically possible to port this to avatar 3.0 (lol), using Parameter Drivers to update things like block counts in inventory. It would likely take several thousand states and hundreds of parameters (obviously only a few things like "currently selected block" would actually be synced as an Expression Parameter... the rest would be local)

Emphasis on the theoretically. I can confirm that a complex animator takes literally several milliseconds to update (at least on an old mac laptop), and the 1GB one took the better part of a second for each update.... lol

complex in my case means a thousand states and thousands of outputs.

[last shuttle]

wait i don't understand why u have thousand of state and output

r u doing 2^ number of item state and output

[dim glade]

I thought there's a limit on the amount of states vrchat can handle

[last shuttle]

uh when i tried to generate like 400 states + my unity start freezing but im sure it will generate evetually

[rapid cedar]

what does "streaming mipmap" does, just curious since everytime uploading new avatar this message would pop up

[silver adder]

Makes it so textures are displayed at a lower resolution when they are far away from the camera.

It's an optimization thing, and also helps reduce texture shimmering on distant objects.

[rapid cedar]

but in unity there is nowhere for me to check whether my texture has it enabled?

[silver adder]

The SDK will automatically "fix" any textures that don't have it enabled if you attempt to upload your avatar. Just hit the "auto fix" button next to the error.

It's not something you need to worry about much.

[foggy pelican]

Your texture doesn't show it? Well just let the SDK resolve it for you. This is Unity's description of the option. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/493595762882641933/745593941914550322/unknown.png

[rapid cedar]

thanks!

[merry swan]

mipmapping reduces gpu memory usage by alot , but use tiny bit more cpu

[dusky scaffold]

it's mipmapping streaming specifically that reduces the gpu memory usage, but uses a tiny bit more cpu

mipmapping itself is using pre-calculated, progressively smaller versions of a full size texture, as you get further away from a surface or look at a more glancing angle, a smaller version of the texture is used, this tends to look better and is faster to render. Standard shader and other shaders with PBR style reflections also use the mip maps of reflection probes to give lower clarity reflections to rougher surfaces.

[neon finch]

I have no idea how to make an avatar

[neon finch]

Any good avatar makers? That know how to do effects too?

[remote echo]

You can check VRCTraders, but it all depends on what you want, budget, etc.

@neon finch Literally just started?

You can go to the VRChat website, login, then go to downloads, it should provide you everything that you need to upload your first avatar.

Making an avatar however requires programs like Blender.

[neon finch]

Okay

Thanks

[remote echo]

Let us know if you get stuck somewhere, you have an entire community worth of knowledge 👌

I would suggest to start with avatar 2.0 SDK also unless you want to learn a lot about animations and whatnot.

These channels are for Avatars 3.0 which is a lot of animation, animators, all that sort of stuff.

[grizzled acorn]

Hey i got an avatar (3.0) that works fine in desktop and fullbody when seen from other people other than the user, but if the user is using fullbody they alone will see one of their calves kinda twisted. It seems like a local problem for fullbody, any ideas what it might be?

[sweet star]

Does anyone have a TitanFall avatar I was just wondering because I love TitanFall

[zealous trail]

You may be able to look online for the assets, I know they've been published on a few sites

[fluid grotto]

This channel is for avatar creation support for SDK3, to be honest I don’t even know the right channel for “does anyone have character x from thing y” :S

[zealous trail]

^

Hence why I answered the question here.

as I don't think there's a channel for assets tbh

[silver adder]

This channel is for avatar creation support for SDK3, to be honest I don’t even know the right channel for “does anyone have character x from thing y” :S
There isn't a channel for that, so #vrchat-general-2 should be considered the "correct" channel.

[sweet star]

Ok thanks sorry

[neon finch]

so uh

i pushed a local update to my avatar

to enable the point emote

and other people in the instance could see it

is this a bug or what

[merry swan]

local isnt viewable for other

[hot goblet]

so uh

i installed the 3.0 sdk https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/721962166890266667/745839775243698186/unknown.png

and it refuses to do anything

it errored on downloading the dll file

[soft crown]

pretty sure emotes will be seen over network ik

so that's probably why the testing one sent

[opaque sequoia]

Ah I found a bug with the debug menu, probably gonna post it on the canny in a bit. It doesn't show state names for a layer if the layer's state machine is named differently than the layer itself.

[fluid grotto]

and it refuses to do anything
@hot goblet fresh project? unity 2018.4.20f1?

[hot goblet]

Same unity version, not a new project

I deleted the vrc folder before I loaded the new one

[fluid grotto]

Moving from SDK2 to SDK3 is not supported. Needs to be a new project where SDK2 has not been used

[hot goblet]

I don't recall sdk 1 to 2 needing that

[fluid grotto]

I’ll have to take your word on jt, I wasn’t around for SDK1.

[neon finch]

im lookin for a specific avatar and im hoping someone can point me in the right direction

[brisk moon]

so I can only use 16 expression parameters?

or am I missing something?

[fluid grotto]

Yes, 16 parameters that can have values 0 to 255, so that’s 3.4^38 possible value states. That’s 34 followed by 37 zeros. A number I can’t even type or the spambot deletes my message.

If you run out of room you are doing it wrong

[whole stream]

Slowly been figuring out 3.0 lately and having things work just how I want them to has been immensely satisfying.

[brisk moon]

So I need to use my parameters variable for more than one thing at a time..

more workarounds, fun

[small crescent]

you can use more variables for local logic, but only the 16 in parameters will be synced over network

[brisk moon]

I guess I would start by trying to create a system where I can combine different combinations of like 15 different toggles into one thing by using some sort of division remainder check

clearly that won't work at 15 but..

I can get about 5 from one variable at the least

that should reduce it by a lot but when it comes to other parameters for things that arn't toggles that's gonna be weird

I can tell my problem solving is limited right now :/

yeah I'm gonna need some help understanding how I'm suppost to do that in the first place

why is it like this

this seems silly

[rain socket]

Any avatar makers on?
if so DM me
= )

[hasty marsh]

That edgy, think of the parameters as channels of things that can happen independently of each other

[neon finch]

Could anyone rig an avatar for me?

[light flax]

§15. No posting the same question or statement across multiple channels.

[restive rivet]

I don't recall sdk 1 to 2 needing that
Isn't sdk1 the same as sdk2? iirc they only changed it to 2 and 3 once Udon became a thing.
Also sdk3 has massive changes, nothing from sdk2 can be ported to it. I don't know of any case where you're not better off by making a new project

[loud sail]

i had no issues at all with my project when moving from sdk 2 to 3. i deleted the old sdk and cleared the scripting defines for the sdk 2 and then imported the sdk 3

[eager horizon]

^^

it worked fine

of course tthe descriptor from your old avatars will be broken as its a completely new script now

but you get to keep everything else non VRCSDK related

[fluid grotto]

Just because it can work doesn’t mean it’s supported, there’s so many things that can go wrong that the devs do not want to assist in debugging all the broken projects. Easier to just say “we only support fresh projects”

[eager horizon]

right

I still advice for a fresh project

but I just didnt want to spend 5 hours migrating my 80gb of a project

[sand wren]

i made a duplicate and deleted like 40-50 old models i will never edit

and then stored the original project in a backup

[austere rose]

Create a new project I would say is the best practice

[fluid grotto]

New project slowly filling with all the 3.0 versions of my old projects

Much better organized this time around too

Slowly regaining harddrive space from having a million projects with their big size overhead

[craggy stump]

preach

[smoky jolt]

are there any written guides on doing simple idle animations?

[craggy stump]

creating them from scratch?

[bitter schooner]

Is there a way to convert an sdk2 avatar to sdk3?

Or do you simple open the project in sdk3?

[rose zinc]

How do i add “world” audio to an avatar? I have music on some avatars but its quiet unless i up the gain on the track a bunch which causes distortion. How can i make it louder normally?

[smoky jolt]

creating them from scratch?
@craggy stump I just want to add some extra movement, the default idle animations are fine

[sharp dagger]

new sdk gives me smooth brain ✨

[potent harbor]

How do I prevent offscreen culling of animations in SDK3? It kills any future animations on that layer.

[potent harbor]

Anyone? This is breaking my Action layer.

[upper remnant]

@potent harbor how is it breaking? client that culled you can't transition to the right state?

[potent harbor]

It disappears entirely for them, and in Unity the animations stop rendering.

If I throw the controller into an Animator component with culling disabled, it works fine.

But if I use the default setting of 'Cull Update Transforms', it continues on with nothing animating.

I have some video of the animator in action if that will help explain

Oh, I can't even post them here.

[upper remnant]

Can you disable culling on your avatar animator component?

[potent harbor]

You mean the action layer? No, there's no option for that.

[visual tundra]

is it worth updating my avatar to v3

[sand wren]

not unless you want to use the features of avatar 3.0

if you don't then don't do anything or upgrade

otherwise sure but its a whole different system without AnimationOverride and with custom menus and syncing capabilities

[wheat plover]

Is there a database for avatar 3.0 tutorials? I see people creating really cool stuff but not many tutorials to follow on. Unless y'all just really smart with this stuff haha

[sand wren]

animators are state machines so as long as u understand animators

and what the different playable layers do / how they work

should be good enough to do basic stuff

[upper remnant]

@potent harbor no, the animator component on your avatar. nvm though cause i think it gets set to cull completely anyway

[rose zinc]

So i have a custom idle animation on my avatar and it works fine except the head stays stationary while the body moves doing the animation in vrchat, but in unity it looks fine. Anybody know a solution?

[potent harbor]

Can parameters be carried over to other animators?

[craggy stump]

do you mean the head isnt being animated?

[rose zinc]

Yea

[craggy stump]

thats normal right now

if you animate it, it can mess stuff up

[faint obsidian]

I need help

finding emissions https://youtu.be/vGzXY_cSNWA

[compact pasture]

so I have a follower hovering right about over my shoulder. How would I go about making it so I can toggle a constraint to aim it with my hand or something? I figure a rotation constraint, but i have trouble getting it to work right.

[faint obsidian]

can anyone help me
build and test doesn't work
and nor public
even though it tells me i am allowed to

[dapper hearth]

Is the Avatar 3 world still up?

[gilded mason]

@shut bolt you do realize those are very much against the rules, right

[shut bolt]

Yeah but my friend jess wants to have 1

[gilded mason]

asking here is just... not a very wise decision in general

[shut bolt]

Lol

[icy vigil]

is it worth me trying to learn AV3? i tried for lik 20 seconds and it just didnt like me xD

[craggy stump]

lol 20 seconds

[errant cargo]

And I thought I got demotivated quickly...

[fluid grotto]

I can’t imagine most people would ever learn anything if they gave up when they didn’t understand some thing within 20 seconds

[charred lynx]

Hey if anyone is looking for an idea for a quarantine Halloween costume in vrchat and are feeling lazy

Just really REALLY mess up the weight painting on your model

I made something horrific in about 5 minutes, it's a riot

Best one is to make the teeth have no weights so they open and close with your mouth but float beside your head

[sand wren]

best way to have a halloween costume is just delete the textures and use black color

[manic violet]

I have a question for anyone that wants to answer. Will someone teach me how to start making avatars? Timezone: EST

Time needs to be at least close to mine cause then I have time in my day to do it

If your willing to help me please dm me

[raw smelt]

Is there anybody I can commission to make an avatar? I have some models in mind

[manic violet]

@raw smelt how much is a commission I have an idea for one that I'd like

[primal ocean]

hey all what's the difference in eye movement for 3.0?

calm/excited

shy/confident

etc

what does it make the eyes do?

[tranquil pulsar]

If I'm not mistaken, Calm/Excited determines how often the eyes look around/change targets, and the Shy/Confident determines how long you'll look at someone else. I'm pretty sure about the Calm/Excited, not sure on the specifics of the Shy/Confident

[primal ocean]

thank you haha

that's important when considering aesthetic haha

im having trouble doing basic gestures

they are enabled

I just recieved knuckles controllers

any ideas?

[night coyote]

I'm looking for people to make a vrchat model, i have all the files ready. I cannot upload them though since im a quest player.

if not, i can follow 5 million tutorials on how to make the models into a vrchat skin

[hasty marsh]

whats the export FBX settings from blender setup that you use, i been having probles with animation emotes taht go to trough the floor

[fluid grotto]

Calm/excited is blink rate. Shy/confident is how often you spend looking at other people

I don’t know the actual percentages but full Shy appears to never look at anyone directly

Full confident still looks away sometimes

[modest torrent]

anyone have any color change presets or such for avatar 3.0?

is there like a website with some presets?

[grim mirage]

Any news on remeasure yet? Still disabled?

[late tartan]

Still gone :c

But hey, you can still resize... other parts of your avatar

[grim mirage]

Nah, I've got an Ant-Man avatar I was really looking forward to Avatars 3.0 for. 😞

[fervent locust]

ran out of params

guess i'm done adding new things

unless i can get rid of these VRCFaceBlendH and VRCFaceBlendV things

[upper remnant]

those are the default parameters for the default actions and fx layers

if you're not using those defaults then you can remove them

[glad cloak]

If I create a Prefab of my avatar, will it make a copy of my materials and textures?

I wanna change my avatars "outfit" but i also want a copy of how I used to look, and wanna know if prefabs are the way to go

[upper remnant]

a prefab saves hierarchy with component properties intact

material settings are part of the material asset

a prefab won't save a material with a certain texture or shader settings

it will just make sure that if a component is making a material reference in a property, it will reference that same material

if you want to save a particular outfit you should create a prefab and save all those materials, and use different materials with a new avatar

or make a prefab and then export it as a package with all the required assets

https://youtu.be/pZg91lTSF8s

if you make a unity package out of stuff, then it won't matter if you overwrite anything

[fervent locust]

@upper remnant do you happen to know the purpose of the "debug string" field? and/or where its output appears?

[sand wren]

usually u don't need to make a prefab of your avatars

u can just make copies of them in one scene or their own scenes

[dapper hearth]

Is Rotation States for eyelid bones literally rotations, or can they be any kind of transform you want?

[glad kayak]

They're just rotations.

[dapper hearth]

Booo

[fallow sequoia]

@fervent locust Debug String will print out into your local debug log whenever the state is entered

[fervent locust]

where is this log located?

[fallow sequoia]

AppData/Local Low/VRChat/vrchat

[fervent locust]

cool thanks

[frozen fable]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but
How would I make a pistol fire via holding down the grab trigger? I’ve got the toggling stuff down I just need to figure out how to make it fire

[hasty falcon]

What Gesture do you want to map it to, grabbing for me on the Rift S is "Gun" Which is GestureLeft/GestureRight = 6

[frozen fable]

Well, I wanted it to use a sort of combination, so I could hold down right pointing (which is what hand I’m holding the gun in) then pulling down the grab trigger

That way it feels like I’m actually using a sort of gun

[hasty falcon]

in that case you want to enable the gun when point is done then transition on thumbsup if its a rift S

oh wait

not thumbsup

[frozen fable]

Oh, enabling is done via a toggle. Think of the gesture lock as a safety mechanism

[shadow oxide]

I haven't actually tried it myself, but if you're using av3, you should be able to use the built in "GestureLeftWeight" or "GestureRightWeight" floats to get the trigger values, and use that

[frozen fable]

Then for the grabbing (which is simply holding down a trigger on vive) to shoot

[hasty falcon]

if you want to trigger it with the same hand then you simply need to do the following

Detect the first Gesture, Loop the state until the second gesture is pressed.

Otherwise you'll need to do it two handed, you can also add another gesture to turn the "safety" back on

[frozen fable]

So the effect is that while you have your hand in the pointing gesture it disables the safety

Ah

So how would I loop it?

[hasty falcon]

it shoudl manually do it if you add conditions to your transitions

[frozen fable]

Oh, so stuff like lock = 0 and such?

[hasty falcon]

Oh no you don't require special parameters

[frozen fable]

Eh?

Oh wait

I’m confused now, sorry if I’m getting this 3.0 stuff confused

[neon finch]

anyone know how to take away a custom avatar

@me if you know the answer ill be gone

[hasty falcon]

@neon finch Take away how?

[neon finch]

just delete it

like no longer thee

[hasty falcon]

You can delete it in the SDK or on the website iirc

[neon finch]

chould you screen shot

[hasty falcon]

DMed it to you

[frozen fable]

I’m actually curious now since some VRC streamers like Lolathon use avatars that hide name tags, along with other interesting concepts like using chairs that other players can use

[hasty falcon]

Chairs are a normal feature of VRChat

Personally I have no faith that anyone is going to enforce anything against big streamers

But technically they are breaking TOS

[frozen fable]

Ah, fair enough I guess

I mean he’s not really doing anything harmful, so I guess it’s fine in the long run

Though knowing I can make static props and seats is a pretty interesting combination

[hasty falcon]

I've made seats i can place in the world and then bring to myself, as well as seats that basically act as elevators moving up and down for people to sit on and go to another area

[frozen fable]

I remember Lolathon using them in a sort of golfing theme, some player would sit on a tee and he’d basically hit them off to god knows where

It was funny watching but when I took the time to think about it I was intrigued you can do such things

[hasty falcon]

You can make a lot of nice things especially now with 3.0, i've already made a simple RNG system

[frozen fable]

That actually sounds really impressive

[hasty falcon]

it's not that difficult, you just have animations states loop until a parameter changes, whatever state it was on when it changed is the chosen number

[frozen fable]

Oh-

Well that’s surprising simple

[hasty falcon]

I've also made my own viseme setup to add multiple avatars i can swap through onto 1 single avatar and still have working visemes on all of them

Obviously the """""performance""""" rating will look bad but besides that it runs great

[frozen fable]

The performance rating isn’t all that important is it?