Where can I find this tool?
#avatar-general
opaque sequoia
woven goblet
Not released it yet. Just got to do some code clean up and it should be ready
opaque sequoia
Ah nice. I assume you'll be posting a link to it in the showoff channel when it is then
Does it retain the default state of the parameters when it copies over?
woven goblet
It copies over everything required for that controller or layer to function
opaque sequoia
So if a float parameter was at 0.5, it would be set back to 0 when it copies?
woven goblet
nope, will be the value set in the source controller
opaque sequoia
Ah ok good
wet portal
How do you even code custom unity stuff like that
opaque sequoia
Oh actually one more question. What does it do in the case that the target Animator already contains a parameter with the same name, but different type as one needing to be copied over.
woven goblet
As of right now it just pre-append the source controller name
Don't really have a system for it in place yet
But plan on adding a way for you to give it a new name on the target controller before you press copy
opaque sequoia
Makes sense
woven goblet
But now that you've mentioned it, I could add a "validation" check that prevents the copy button from being enabled if a collision occurs.
opaque sequoia
You could do that and your renaming idea you mentioned together.
woven goblet
yeah
Though, this will push release a bit further back. So might just release a basic, then add it to the next update. (Or have testers until it's ready)
opaque sequoia
Well if you need testers, I'm all ears.
Regardless of what you choose to do, I'm excited to see how it turns out!
Oh yeah actually one last thing
Did you account for the fact that in the Animator file internally, the first layer's weight is 0?
(This is actually the same reason the first layer shows up as zero in VRChat's debug menu if anyone was curious)
woven goblet
it copies everything. Settings and values.
opaque sequoia
Only the first layer. Otherwise they wouldn't have included the Layer Control script for changing sublayer weights.
opaque sequoia
Oh
modest sun
The layer control script is still a thing but they are all initially set to 1, I think
woven goblet
The layer control is so you can decide if you only need one
visual dagger
base layer is considered 1, it's not changeable
modest sun
I had trouble writing my emulator at first because the playable layer weights got reset to 0. Might be my fault tho
woven goblet
In basic josh, it creates an exact copy of the source controller. Doesn't matter what values you have. It all get copied over
opaque sequoia
Well, I guess the question then becomes which comes first in the final result, the source layers or target's?
woven goblet
Target
Since target could be your main controller, I don't want to touch anything that exists already
opaque sequoia
Fair enough
That still leaves the problem of source's base layer though.
oh wait can I not post images here
Hang on
teal path
What would be some nice avatar 3.0 features to have on a normal, non gimicky avatar? I already have increased facial expressions, blinking and toggles but I feel like itd be nice to have some more things on it.
pulsar lagoon
Scale control animations fit in nicely to any avatar in my opinion. Can also be helpful for certain maps designed at a wrong scale to just quickly adjust your viewpoint, or to keep yourself at similar scale to other avatars without swapping out.
teal path
I thought about that but I decided against it because it will cause communication problems with anyone who doesnt have my animations shown
pulsar lagoon
Hm, only other option I can think of off the top of my head is just outfit toggles, but that's a matter of perspective if that's 'gimmicky' or not, and it also depends on how your avatar is set up.
Or, actually what about hand gestures? Do you have any use for custom ones?
opaque sequoia
Oh wait I never even thought about the fact that people will have animations disabled.
teal path
I do have toggles on most of my avatars already, what do you mean by "custom hand gestures"
pulsar lagoon
Like, anything that isn't the default fingerpoint, rock and roll, handgun, etc.
Do you think you'd want gestures for say, an 👌 hand or a middle finger, or anything like that?
teal path
Not really, just currently hoping they replace the hand animations that are currently used in 3.0
Because well, they dont look very natural
Oh wait I just realized my canny about it got a reply
pulsar lagoon
Oh, the one about Male and Female default gesture sets?
teal path
yeahh
I didnt even know males had different ones
I thought it was just sitting animation
pulsar lagoon
I'll be honest, for the longest time, I couldn't tell what that option even did. I always assumed it was something put there for the future and they never got around for it.
I dunno, I can't think of many suggestions for non-gimmicky uses that aren't also niche. There's a custom AFK animation, maybe a toggle for if you want to let others know you're muted (provided they have animations on of course,) If your model has a tail, you might wanna make a tail puppet for wagging or controlling it... It's kinda hard to think of much else.
opaque sequoia
I think the problem is that AV3 itself is kind of a gimmick itself.
teal path
Tru
pulsar lagoon
Yeah. Much of the tools it provides are things that are super fancy for people who wanna push the system to it's limits, and no longer have to rely on hacky state machines and several meshes, and animators that break if you aren't constantly staring at them.
neon finch
One thing that sets me off a bit is that you cannot really have a larger set arm turn [up-down] for an idle in Desktop
pulsar lagoon
As for people with regular avatars, beyond emotes and puppetering, most of the stuff will be avatar specific, like using blendtrees to animated individual blendshapes
teal path
Imma assume the hand gesture overrides belong on the gesture layer
opaque sequoia
Yeah
There's an example in the SDK that's easy to work off of if you want to use it
pulsar lagoon
Yup. If you're following the Canny advice, the inside animations should all be one frame long, but VRC will replace them with actual animations in-game
Also, what exactly do you mean by that milkii?
neon finch
So when I offset my arm span to make up for my smaller upper chest, it either does [A: Nothing at all] or [B: Looks good in Desktop, but offsets my arms in VR]
pulsar lagoon
Ah, I think I get it now. I remember someone on Canny requesting an "InVR" parameter, which sounds like it'd help with that slightly
teal path
Time to find the sdk2 hand animations
pulsar lagoon
Did the gesture layer not fix the hand issues?
neon finch
Yeah, it is because of Desktop having fake IK I think, so then it just puts them where it thinks it is [Male has larger]
teal path
the sdk3 hand animations dont look like the sdk2 ones
opaque sequoia
Honestly there's only like two things I really am annoyed by currently with AV3.
- The current state a state machine is in only resets to the default state locally when hitting Calibrate for FBT.
- Sub-state machines don't display state names in the debug menu correctly making things difficult if they go wrong.
neon finch
Wait, you can stack state machines?
neon finch
Oooh
pulsar lagoon
Huh. Does that cause a desync with animation when calibrating?
neon finch
Same way you do a blendtree
opaque sequoia
Yeah to both
pulsar lagoon
Interesting. What happens if you advance an animation then? Does that correct the sync?
opaque sequoia
The desync really sucks because the only real way to get people back to the right state is by using a synced variable
No it doesn't
It still listens to the transitions of the state it's stuck in for others
neon finch
I was having the state machine get stuck a lot in my simulator
pulsar lagoon
Huh. Strange. I knew sometimes late joiners could get desynced out of large animations, but I didn't know that could happen
neon finch
Really annoying to debug
snow geyser
Joshuarox, I'm experiencing an interesting issue with your scale package, when it's in sub menu it will reset my avatars size to the min number for some reason
opaque sequoia
lets take this to #avatar-help @snow geyser
teal path
seems like handslayer2 is close to sdk 2
which is odd because layer 1 and 2 both share the same animations in the files
can anyone tell me why thats the case
pulsar lagoon
Uh, not sure. I don't have it pulled up right this second, but even if they're the same contents, are they named differently? Because the actual animations inside don't mean anything, they're just proxies-.
opaque sequoia
No I checked, it's named the same as well
I wonder if it literally is looking at the name of the Animator
pulsar lagoon
Huh, strange. I'm not sure. Maybe test renaming the animator and seeing?
opaque sequoia
Well actually no it couldn't be that
Otherwise building upon them to make your own would yield the same result.
Oh wait I figured it out
@teal path They use different Idles
teal path
?
opaque sequoia
HandsLayer uses proxy_hands_idle and HandsLayer2 uses proxy_hands_idle2
That seems to be the only difference though
opaque sequoia
Dunno how that's happening then. I literally did a comparison between the files themselves in text form and that was literally the only difference aside from the name of the Animator.
teal path
Yeah but ingame they look different
unless my eyes decieve me
which could be the case cuz I tested in desktop
pale mulch
hmm
silver adder
They are using proxies because they aren't allowed to redistribute the animations with the SDK. (They don't own the animations, they came from Mixamo).
teal path
So basically placeholder and then replaced ingame?
silver adder
Exactly.
teal path
Explains it
silver adder
The animations get replaced with their proper versions in-game based on the file name of the proxy animation.
It's also a cheat to slightly reduce the file size of the SDK as well, not having the full animation data.
fluid grotto
Idle is the new idle, idle2 is from SDK2
The new idle has a gripped hand pose when relaxed, it feels to me
small void
If anyone uses the Vive wands with Avatar 3.0 and want to share their thoughts about something I've noticed, I'd be grateful 😄
https://vrchat.canny.io/avatar-30/p/feedback-enable-thumbsticktouchpad-press-to-select-options-in-the-30-menu
fluid grotto
If I don’t feel like splitting up my animations into transform and non-transform copies, can I just put the same controller on both playable layers and have it stripped out itself?
Just trying to mass convert stuff easier
merry swan
It does work since it totally ignore it anyway, but not sure thats good 🤷♀️ , for me this change is actually good since some of my avatars have wierd visme's so their blink/mouth dont really work with some animations unless i change their name to fit in animation
soft crown
i haven't used the worldconstraint stuff much, but will it be possible to drop one down using avatar 3.0 and have newcomers see the exact spot you dropped it? or will it end up being a sort of thing where the best that happens is when they load you the dropped object spawns on top of you
not quite if you can like set a parameter value for where exactly those sorts of objects get dropped or not
upper remnant
there isn't anything that would sync where you dropped it yet
maybe if jaw bone syncs with IK you could use a 0 weight jaw bone to sync a transform but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
fluid grotto
I don't suppose there's any way to trigger AFK when oculus dash is also open?
the fact that SteamVR does it is actually pretty nice
pulsar lagoon
They mentioned it doesn't work. I don't have occulus, but if it has any option to trigger the HMD proximity display when the headset is removed, maybe turn it on?
rotund harness
yeah steamVR triggering it is kind of unintentional, there's no real way to do it with oculus dash without taking off the headset
silver adder
Who pinged me?
burnt trellis
Can you still make worlds In sdk3?
neon finch
Not with this version. This is for beta testing the new avatar system. Eventually I think it will be the same one
modest sun
@burnt trellis Read the most recent community update. They answer your question:
https://ask.vrchat.com/t/community-update-20-july-2020/2322
nothing is set in stone yet: it's still in development
but it might not be a unified SDK
woeful ruin
we're considering the split, the language in the update is a little bit too final but its more like "we're exploring this as an option"
sand wren
woah woah woah woah
the update with having avatar descriptor have the parameters
why does this exist
now i cant copy and paste my animators anymore
or at least not without having to set up parameters again or replacing my descriptor
pulsar lagoon
Probably to prevent people from trying to use more than one descriptor when submenus are involved.
sand wren
they can just make it so u put parameters in slot in the descriptor
instead of deleting the object entirely
silver adder
Yeah, just having it slot into the descriptor like your default expression menu would have been better...
woeful ruin
Not finalized yet, that's a pretty good solution though (and is one we're considering) 🙂
sand wren
alright thanks
also another good idea would be maybe to have
separate object for the animator slots also
so that lazy person can just slap the same animators on every avatar they use
and then if they make changes it updates across all models and can upload new ones
without have to edit the slots on the descriptors individually
lament bridge
,_,
neon finch
yo guys i'm looking for a avatar that looks like Tim henson anyone got it?
fluid grotto
This is for the 3.0 avatar beta. You want #avatars-2-general
safe mirage
why does the walking animations look so weird? is it cuz of IK?
past drift
didn't they put in a system that lets you customize the walking animation?
wintry glade
You could always edit walking animation, it's easier now IIRC
fluid grotto
After expirmenting the new walking IK looks way better with toe bones. Normally, I had been removing them.
Now, it looks a little off if you don't have them
wintry glade
Yeah I would remove toe bones since VRC didn't really know what to do with em
restive rivet
Is the reset avatar button supposed to do anything else than completely break the locomotion animations?
pulsar lagoon
It should set the stage parameters to 0 and put all animators back at the entry state. Though, it doesn't work when testing locally. How is it breaking?
restive rivet
It acts like I'm moving the head around and the legs struggle to follow it
safe mirage
happens to me aswell only local i think
fluid grotto
Is the reset avatar button supposed to do anything else than completely break the locomotion animations?
@restive rivet for me it resets all stage parameters. Does not break locomotion. Just acts like I wore the avatar fresh.
Make sure your animators naturally fall into a known state given the stage parameters.
opaque sequoia
It breaks locomotion when you do local testing
Seems to just disable leg animation entirely and just use auto footsteps for moving the legs.
upper remnant
yeah it looks hilarious
sand wren
oh yea if u turn off auto footsteps does it make ur legs slide across the floor when in VR/desktop and rotating/moving head around
fair bison
Avatar 3.0 looks really amazing
fluid grotto
Loving it.. had my head in unity nonstop since the beta opened
sand wren
the only thing i am really a fan of is syncing menu buttons
but thats like 70% of avatar3
and its not live yet which suck cuz i have to upload sdk2 versions to join friends
neon finch
Agreed love it to bits but shame cant use what ive made so im just waiting now, hopefully we get it soon
restive rivet
I was going insane cause emotes after VRCEmote 8 weren't working until I realized the standing animation has a condition that says "greater than 0, less than 9"
Big F
dapper hearth
Fortunately my head was built with paradox-absorbing crumple zones
fluid grotto
Is there a maximum amount of elements that fit on a pie menu?
dry fractal
....
merry swan
most i had was 7, it get kinda small after that
unreal pelican
"This will break essentially all currently-uploaded AV3 avatars, and you will need to re-define your custom parameters (aliased Stage parameters)."
But why?
It makes no sense to "fix" something that isn't broken
Plus it further complicates the process for people new to unity and avatar creation.
upper remnant
Not sure what fix you're talking about, but the incoming breaking changes are indeed for the sake of fixes
You should expect things to break in a beta
unreal pelican
people have made scripts that automatically set up things so why can't the devs include some type of auto-fix every time they do something like this as well
clearly it is possible and has been done
wintry glade
It's a beta, you should use it for testing. Anything else is technically unsupported.
unreal pelican
I don't think I'll personally have any issues with how small of a change it is but I know of several friends who aren't gonna like it so thats why I was asking
wintry glade
If changes like this upset them then they should probably wait for it to be released as then the devs won't be so quick to break things
Now is the best time to make drastic or breaking changes
rich sedge
hi
merry swan
Think the change is good, cause right now submenues ask for a parameter file, when its kinda pointless since it only use one anyway ,might as well have it on descriptor
fluid grotto
Don’t make content in beta expecting to get ahead on live... stuff always breaks. They’ve been telling people they will break stuff before release on live. And yes the change is justified since you can’t use multiple stage parameters it makes sense to be a property of the descriptor. It’s just a separate asset for no real reason right now
restive rivet
Yeah having an object for it was pointless and confusing. It could also be inserted in the descriptor instead of removing the object but it would still be somewhat confusing. It's annoying to redo all the parameters, but it's the best they could have done about it
fluid grotto
Better to change it now than be stuck with it forever. I’m wondering if the menu asset itself is going to change or just the parameter asset
restive rivet
I don't mind as long as I don't have to redo my animators 😰
Which I would understand anyways, it's a beta. But oh boy it would suck
woeful ruin
you don't have to redo animators, but you do have to redo state behaviors.
Please, PLEASE read the ping super closely.
It is so important
if you don't you are going to lose your avatar setup
with no way to recover. Read it.
sturdy smelt
shoutout to all the people trying to port their avatars so they dont have to when av3 releases, this is just a beta probably dont go and do that yet
sand wren
i will probably fix everything after like 30 days lol
grizzled acorn
guys I think tupper wants us to read the post
deft lodge
I love the amount of warnings across everywhere haha
woeful ruin
we have to (apparently) accommodate for people that don't read
karmic helm
I usually read announcement posts pretty well and when I updated Owl Girl for this update, I missed some things that made it harder. So yeah, it will really help if you read the notes and duplicate your project like said!
grizzled acorn
which is lots of people and people will come here to complain about
sturdy smelt
take a shot every time someone says bad update it broke their avatar
im on standby rn
karmic helm
The expressions menus were also reset, which I missed
grizzled acorn
oh shit that's h u g e for my part better be careful
amber bobcat
can't believe my avatars are ded
deft lodge
how to fix
Posts a photo from the phone with one line of the unity console log that barely gives away any information about the issue
amber bobcat
:pikalul:
teal path
Why did I spend 4 whole days making my avatars ready dear god im an idiot
Oh well thats my fault
woeful ruin
gyuys i clicked on sdk download and imported it and now my project has evolved int o a senteint ai
amber bobcat
ohno
woeful ruin
it just keeps playing death stranding over and over
teal path
I am too scared to open my project to see the damage
deft lodge
we need ai that can fix project on it's own and bundle it with sdk, have fun haha
lost niche
Well, as long as it's your project copy Paci, you'll be fine
because you read the post, and made a backup to reference
sand wren
omg guysss ii upgrade sdk and when i re upload avatar nothign wrokggromge
fiery crow
Hey there's still Udon in this
sand wren
yes this update adds udon to all avatars ||/s||
fiery crow
Haha funny no seriously fix this otherwise it will take years for anyone to enter play mode
Thought it was already supposed to be separated.
sand wren
i will probably fix my avatars (or at least my animal crossing one bc other people actually use it) whenever i wan
bc still in beta
when av3 come out on live i will 100% port everything i use day to day
and has clothing options and such for
even made a bat character with wings that open on individual hand gestures for left and right
teal path
well I just dont wanna know how long ill have to spend fixing stuff >->
sand wren
do we have to remake all menus and every state behavior
teal path
yeaaa sounds like it
fiery crow
Depends on whether or not you kept a copy somewhere of your parameter drivers.
woven goblet
Tupper answered that in the #open-beta-discussion rero
fiery crow
If you did it shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
sand wren
parameter driver != expression menus and state behaviors
fiery crow
I see. Well time to remove Udon once again.
sand wren
hopefully the menu buttons and stuff stay
and the only thing that change is the slot that used to say stage parameters
they need to make the VRCCam copy the main camera in the scene when uploading an avatar or world to make it easier for thumbnails
i already wrote a script to do that but meh
lime plume
AV3 live soon™?
fluid grotto
Yeah that’s why I’m keeping it to just one 3.0 avatar to learn the ropes
lime plume
I am excite
fluid grotto
So is the Avatar 3.0 branch on steam the same as the Beta branch now? Should I switch to Beta?
woven goblet
yes, open-beta
sand wren
ima fix kk slider avatar so 100 people dont come complaining to me
modest sun
Emulator updated here: https://github.com/lyuma/Av3Emulator/releases/
As before, it's far from feature complete. Mostly useful for debugging state machine / parameter drivers.
sand wren
avatar3 probably live before october
opaque sequoia
I'm also gonna go fix the scaling tool, see ya in a couple hours.
left parcel
even for toggles?
fluid grotto
Toggles have no lag time
opaque sequoia
I just realized something
The new Mouth and Jaw tracking control stuff isn't shown in the debug menu
fluid grotto
That I can tell, anyway
easy to mistake buttons and toggles when setting things up, they have the same editor interface
sand wren
wym
if you use flap or jaw then since it doesnt care which viseme
it uses 0-100 for volume
sand wren
oh
grizzled acorn
Well that throws my hope for a fix for real time remeasuring into the bin, at least for now - I'll just wait for it
jaunty ruin
Any idea how long avatar 3.0 will be in beta for?
opaque sequoia
So it would seem like Remeasure Avatar is broken significantly more than I thought.
I'm going to attempt to create some workarounds for some of the issues, but I doubt I'll be able to fix them all
restive rivet
Any idea how long avatar 3.0 will be in beta for?
I don't think there's a date set on stone but I think I heard someone say they usually stay in beta for around a month
wintry glade
Really depends on the problems, which there seem to be a fair share of this time around
dapper hearth
Dang, they broke everything?
pulsar lagoon
Well, yes, but actually no.
Basically, all the stuff that is in the projects still work, you just have to put it together a new way.
Although, some of the more experimental features like avatar scaling have to be redone.
opaque sequoia
Changes they've made to some things affect how other things work basically.
pulsar lagoon
So, yeah, those broke.
We knew this was gonna happen one day through the beta anyway. They basically flat out told us from the start that every 3.0 avatar WAS going to break.
I'm just in the process of converting everything over, and if I get into a rythm, it'll probably be less than 10 minutes per avatar. Not a big deal
Though, avatar rescaling is my favorite feature that's now possible due to 3.0, and it looks like for some people it's changed drastically.
opaque sequoia
Everything that's become broken seems to be due to changes other than Remeasure Avatar actually in regards to scaling. Crouching and Prone is only broken because Locomotion Control doesn't reset the locomotion correctly when re-enabled (I think) and the position of the avatar as you change scale doesn't sync correctly because using Tracking Control is causing it to play remotely rather than using NetIK to sync.
pulsar lagoon
That's... Interesting. I thought your prefab just used a radial puppet to change scale? Shouldn't that just affect the avatar root? Why is it necessary to disable tracking?
I've not actually messed with your prefab, so I may be wrong in how it works.
opaque sequoia
Leaving locomotion enabled caused issues with the Tracking Control when you jumped since the default Base layer changes it.
And Tracking Control was necessary so your head would actually move around so you can see what height you'll be changing to.
pulsar lagoon
Ooh, okay. Now I get it. I actually just set my personal menus up with 8 preset heights, so I never had that issue. I guess using a radial puppet you needed to take realtime views into consideration.
opaque sequoia
Yeah
Locomotion is less of an issue now since Any State constantly sets Tracking Control correctly while the menu is open, but the whole thing with Tracking Control is a lot harder for me to circumvent.
pulsar lagoon
Could the prefab be split into layers? One to forcefully disable tracking and do some kind of default idle pose when the submenu parameter is called, and the others to use the radial menu for the size blendtree and Anystate remeasure clock?
You wouldn't be able to move your hands about while scaling size obviously, but it's the only way I can think of to allow realtime view scaling with the issues you brought up, unless I'm misunderstanding something.
dapper hearth
Hey wait, no I meant are intended features not working now?
opaque sequoia
That doesn't actually work. I've already tried it.
I think some intended features are bugged
pulsar lagoon
That's strange. And, I've not noticed anything broken that wasn't broken before.
But, I've also only messed about for less than half an hour, so don't mind my take
opaque sequoia
The thing with Tracking Control only happens on remote clients
It still uses the NetIK version locally even when it doesn't remotely.
pulsar lagoon
That's... strange. I may have to go read the patch notes again, but that doesn't sound like intended behavior to me.
So, is the bug just that the scaling works fine on your own end, but doesn't look right on the remote end? I'm just trying to make sure I understand the issue right, since honestly, a lot of this is new and I'm still wrapping my head around all the changes.
opaque sequoia
Yeah
On the remote end, your avatar sinks into the floor if you scale down, and soars into space if you scale up
Also if you crouch beforehand you'll see yourself crouched while scaling, but others will see you in standing idle
pulsar lagoon
Hm, does it not fix itself after locking in your size and moving?
opaque sequoia
It does, but that's because it has to do with Tracking Control and Locomotion Control.
silver adder
Backup is done, time to fix everything that broke...
pulsar lagoon
Viewpoint is broken how?
pulsar lagoon
Huh.
opaque sequoia
That's what's caused by the Locomotion being disabled and enabled.
burnt flax
good to know i be breaking my avatar with the group 🙂
pulsar lagoon
I have no other ideas then, other than asking for a state behavior to force an animation to play over networked IK regardless of tracking control.
silver adder
So wait, my custom humanoid animations will sync to other people even if they have custom animations disabled now?
pulsar lagoon
Yes. (Kinda)
opaque sequoia
That would work, I just don't know how to do that.
And yeah, only if they affect humanoid bones.
pulsar lagoon
It'll play with the same delay networked IK has.
opaque sequoia
Transforms are still ignored.
silver adder
All of my animations affect humanoid bones, they aren't generic animations.
pulsar lagoon
Keep in mind, some animations may not look the exact same over Networked IK, case in point:
Uh, I guess that won't preview in this channel. I'll post it in help.
silver adder
Video file links don't like to preview in general.
pulsar lagoon
...I guess it's not previewing in help either.
Yeah... Well, I'll just try to find the original post.
silver adder
Time to see how badly my avatar broke with this update... And how long it will take to fix.
pulsar lagoon
There we go, that links to AV3 showoff and is what it looks like over Networked IK
silver adder
I made a backup before importing the new SDK, I'm not dumb.
pulsar lagoon
The update was probably made to fix those kinds of inconsistencies. It'll look like the ACTUAL animation if animations are enabled now, but look like the slower one if disabled.
Of course, that's an extreme case since the dance is VERY fast.
silver adder
Most of my custom animations (aside from my emotes) are just static poses with an additive layer to give the illusion of movement.
Which of course, people with animations disabled aren't going to see the additive layer...
At least, i would assume that. The additive animations are humanoid bone based as well, but because they are on a separate layer i don't think they would sync.
pulsar lagoon
That actually makes me curious, because the exact wording isn't too specific.
- Safety System now handles AV3 avatars correctly. If animations are blocked, the Action and FX Playable layers are removed, and the rest are replaced with defaults
- Humanoid animations will still play through Networked IK even if animations are off. This is intentional (and a feature!)
It says additive will just be a default layer, but that 'humanoid animations' specifically will still play
silver adder
Used to other avatars with custom animations would just T-pose if you turned animations off. Glad to see they fixed that.
pulsar lagoon
Based on this wording, it's my assumption that humanoid animations should work just fine on any layer, even if they're on a blocked layer, they just won't play remotely.
silver adder
Luckily, i only had one custom parameter for my avatar, but recreating the expression menus is still going to be a pain...
Well, with submenus of submenus being broken apparently. RIP my multi-page emote wheel...
opaque sequoia
I just wish we had the option to use NetIK instead of playing the Animation remotely.
While the IK points are set to Animation I mean
pulsar lagoon
Might as well throw it on the Canny. I'll make it.
opaque sequoia
Alright
pulsar lagoon
raven shuttle
looking for people to join a chill server dm me
pulsar lagoon
Is it a Beta branch server?
fluid grotto
If anyone wants to make nice menu icons, this script adds a menu option for saving the currently selected RenderTexture as a .png. Let me make all my icons really quickly. https://pastebin.com/XJ6iKHS0
silver adder
OK, i think I've fixed everything now.
Time to test.
Tfw you forget to assign your custom animators...
And for some reason my emotes now don't work at all...
fluid grotto
I constantly test as I go, if I work 2 hours and then test I'll never find the bug
silver adder
I got it fixed, it turns out the scripts on the animations got wiped.
fluid grotto
The Editor UI for the Parameter Driver seems a little scuffed. Drop down doesn't appear until you refocus after trying to type an alias.
opaque sequoia
Yeah, it was like that in the last version too though
fluid grotto
whoop
opaque sequoia
I'm not really happy with how the scaling tool works currently, but I do want to get something out tonight for you all. Everything should work fine with the exception of some minor bugs with how adjusting scale looks. Once I test how this build looks in VR I'll push it to the github and announce it in the showoff channel.
opaque sequoia
Known Issues:
- Scaling your avatar and using Animator Remeasure Avatar doesn't immediately rescale your Quick Menu, so you'll have to open your Main Menu to trigger a rescale. We'll fix this in a later AV3 Open Beta build.
Also this didn't happen.
pulsar lagoon
Yeah. I'm hoping they're just hoarding all the Rescaling fixes in one big update.
There's a variety of issues still, such as auto footsteps not scaling when going up, some FBT drift, a bunch of things that I think will need to be looked at all at once.
That said, the setdelay issue on the avatar scale delay seems to have been fixed. Or at least, it's started working on my avatars it was previously broken on.
opaque sequoia
Huh
opaque sequoia
Honestly I wonder whether half the issues I'm encountering are a result of intended features or if they're actual bugs.
I think they should make the "Animations play remotely if tracking points are disabled," thing only occur on certain layers like Action. That would allow Animations that require the use of NetIK and tracking points to be disabled to still function correctly in other layers like Gesture.
long cloak
for 3.0 does eye tracking still need the specific hierarchy?
modest sun
no! it's all fixed now
sand wren
u just need bones for eyes
only problem is that
it doesnt drive animator parameters nor does it use 2 blend shapes, one for each eye anymore
u need one blend shape for both eyes
wet portal
tfw when the reset of everything doesn't matter because you haven't made anything worth keeping anyway 
ocean plover
hello everyone im new
stone gulch
hoary monolith
Did postprocessing AV3 issue got fixed?
proud veldt
@hoary monolith Maybe
I think we fixed the postprocessing issue, it was a build problem
-Tupper
jump to message: https://discordapp.com/channels/189511567539306508/449386885299830794/736325781600338091
modest sun
@hoary monolith Make sure you install Post Processing through Unity Package Manager, and not any version distributed on github or in the assets folder
hoary monolith
Thank you, just to make sure since I'm building a world with post processing on
cause i need friends
wet portal
@ocean plover wow nice 3.0 avatar, glad you could share it here
wet portal
@ocean plover #vrchat-general-1
ocean plover
okay @wet portal
spare fox
They should put the whole category under open beta. Too many people are assuming this is the normal avatar channel which leads to non av3.0 questions and topics..
fluid grotto
for 3.0 does eye tracking still need the specific hierarchy?
@long cloak nope! Which means you are now free to use upper chest for smoother backbone bending, with no downsides.
Will be a while before the content creators unlearn the whole “upper chest bad” mindset, it’s better to use it now.
icy fox
What version of unity do we use for AV3?
neon finch
2018.4.20
icy fox
Awesome thank you!
ember edge
Hmmm. Feel kinda sad!
The av3 is gonna completely throw off my muscle memory off how the av2.
I wonder how I'm gonna cope with a new system for avatars
upper remnant
you can just use your preferred interface for most things, with more flexibility
if you liked to use gestures you can do that better now
hollow jungle
quick question before i finish this model, I want to make my left arm use the puppeting system but does the feature require anything specific eg X number of bones or can you just merge 3-4 shape keys to mimic a moving arm.
restive rivet
Shape keys would mess everything up as the tracking for the arm wouldn't stop
hollow jungle
and im guessing you cant turn off tracking for a model yet
restive rivet
Yep you can, there's a component you can add in animator states that lets you disable any part of the avatar's tracking. I'm not sure if you have to do that or apply masks
But why not do it with bones?
hollow jungle
want to try and limit the amount of bones on the model if possible for optimization and I dislike weight painting arms
restive rivet
Wh
Tfw I almost deleted my whole project trying to duplicate it with ctr+D on the file explorer
fresh heart
]
fluid grotto
Is anyone else noticing really long delays on visemes when you first log in, like 3 second delays, after a few minutes it becomes instant again
only on login, changing worlds or avatars doesn't reset
fluid grotto
I feel like a parameter asset should be in the examples folder and a newly created avatar descriptor should be set to it, otherwise it’s a new step for uploading an avatar that may trip people up
neon finch
hello
sand wren
oh also i remembered something
for people who get confused when they change the proxy animations or cant debug why something is wrong with their setup when they dont use a proxy animation:
that word proxy is very important, because those animations are actually proxies for the original animations in vrchat.
so if vrchat sees an animation with that proxy name, it will be replaced by the appropriate animation in vrchat, NOT with the one that comes with your SDK.
this is probably so that vrchat doesnt have to send you the animations in order for you to be able to use them for legal reasons or whatever regarding redistribution of assets, but keep this in mind, because the animation you are replacing is not the same one as in the SDK, so if something unexpected happens as a result, use this information to debug.
i think i remember a lot of people asking about this for locomotion stuff and gesture stuff so i just wanted to clarify
past badge
Just a quick question... So in SDK2, you have animations, such as pulling out a weapon when you make a fist, right? With SDK3, is it possible to toggle that on and off, and/or change which item you pull out when making a fist?
sand wren
yea
if you read up on any of the documentation
you literally have controls over your own animators
including the gesture animator
so you could very easily just have a weapon variable
like 1-5
past badge
ahh that's pretty awesome.
sand wren
and a layer controlling which one should show
and nother controlling actually showing the thing in the FX layer
FX layer because its toggling things on and off
past badge
I've not made much with SDK2 in terms of animations, and I kind of don't want to get too deep into it (since I'm just now learning), might be easier for me to just learn it with SDK3 so I don't have to relearn or something.
sand wren
Gesture layer is for transforms like movement of objects and bones
well heres the problem
yes, you should learn how to make SDK3 avatars probably, but its in beta right now so a lot could change and all avatars recently broke and had to be set up again somewhat to work with the new updates
past badge
Yeah I won't be touching it til it's released, just to avoid massive breaking changes.
sand wren
what I am doing right now is still making SDK2 avatars but I am making them ready to easily integrate into SDK3
but I do not focus on making things like touch menus and emote menus anymore
because when avatar3.0 releases I wont need any of that anyways
so i just ignore customization on my newest avatars
<@&397642795457970181> ?
is that an ip grabber too wtf lol
past badge
yeah, I don't click on random ass links like that.
sand wren
i have a vpn and i can open in a VM
past badge
nice
sand wren
goes to grabify and then to some ad/"virus" site i think
past badge
Yeah, I'm sure you just wanted to post real free gift cards in here, yui. Makes total sense.
/s
past badge
aka: I wanted to pretend I was using that to get attention, but I was really hoping dumb people would click it cause I'm a cool leet hacker. MOM STOP LEANING OVER MY SHOULDER, CAN YOU MAKE ME A GRILLED CHEESE PLS, I'M TALKING TO FRIENDS
stable pebble
is there a banana avatar i can use lol
sand wren
theres literally one in the public avatars tab...
past badge
<@&397642795457970181> One of you send me a message please.
restive rivet
What the fuck
silver adder
Ignore the troll.
silver adder
Aaaand their dead.
restive rivet
F
grizzled stone
Will there be an increase to the amount of Parameters there can be in VRCExpressionParameters? I feel like im going to run out fairly quickly
either that or i'm just not using them correctly lol
spare fox
You can reuse parameters in weird ways so think outside the box :p
Tho if you are using alot of floats it will eat up your parameters
restive rivet
Would anyone else be interested in this? 
https://vrchat.canny.io/avatar-30/p/feedback-allow-us-to-set-the-off-value
fluid grotto
Based on how the logic works I'm not sure you could take advantage of it though. Say you turn a toggle on.. .if some other thing changes the value to something else, the toggle also turns itself off as well.
cobalt yew
Its a shame we cant validate animator using math. Could have used a paramater as a bitmask and then you could effectively have 8 booleans in 1 float using 0-255
barren garden
Is there any random value that can be used in animation controllers?
I mean random parameter that could be a state change trigger
fluid grotto
made a looop of states that each set set a local, non-stage parameter to 1, 2, 3,4, 5, so it's changing rapidly. when you do your action, make a choice based on that value, and set a stage parameter to it so the choice is also syched. @barren garden
#2353
restive rivet
Its a shame we cant validate animator using math. Could have used a paramater as a bitmask and then you could effectively have 8 booleans in 1 float using 0-255
That would be amazing
A great way to save space
upbeat crescent
an int would be more conventional but yeah for sure 🙂
restive rivet
Yeah but having like 8 times more slots would be amazing
fluid grotto
VRChat did not create animators. This is just a feature of unity.
In standard unity development the assumption was if you want a more complicated conditional you’d just drive the parameter by a small script, which isn’t allowed in VRC. Hopefully avatars get udon some day.
restive rivet
Avatars 2.0 were like discovering fire
Avatars 3.0 like discovering heckin electricity
Avatars 3.0 + udon be like
[insert futuristic image I can't post cause there's no img permission here lol]
fervent locust
anyone know if part of AV3 is them handing over control over the list of finger gestures so people can make more kinds of rocknroll instead of being limited to only those 4 default ones?
maybe i want to make an animation that triggers off of teacup_pinky
sinful junco
Could you elaborate? you can already change the hand emotes to whatever you want In SDK3 and SDK2
fervent locust
i am assuming you mean "set rocknroll to dance.anim"
what i am saying is:
- finger1 0% + finger2 100% + finger 3 100% + finger 4 0% = rocknroll2
- set rocknroll2 to dance.anim
sinful junco
So basically you want to set up conditions
fervent locust
probably?
sinful junco
Yes it can be done
fervent locust
perhaps:
1b) finger1 0% + finger2 0% + finger 3 0% + finger 4 100% = teacup_pinky
2b) set teacup_pinky to dance.anim
sinful junco
Sure
fervent locust
that is currently possible in the current iteration of AV3?
sinful junco
Almost anything until you run out of parameters lmao
fervent locust
where can i read more about that specifically?
sinful junco
Read through this entire thing
i learned how to do almost anything in AV3 by reading this
grizzled stone
is there any real disadvantage to using transform animations in the FX layer? i've done so for an added thing in one of my material swaps, and im not noticing any strange behaviour
sinful junco
Apparently your not suppose to use them in the fx layer for masking reasons and others. i would stick to using non transform animations in the fx layer. and putting the actual animations with transforms in the gesture layer, unless your talking about custom locomotion animations
grizzled stone
its just an animation where the strings on my hoodie get pulled up so it doesnt obscure the logo thats on the material
sinful junco
are the strings bones or Vismes
grizzled stone
bones
sinful junco
Gesture layer
That doesnt mean you lose your hand emotes though, get the gesture layer template and add a new layer with a empty state and another with the animation. in your expression menu add a control and call it Idk hoodie strings and set it to toggle mode. go to your parameters and make a new parameter called strings or something and then set up the thing in a new layer on the template
that way youll keep the default hand emotes and still have the expression menu to affect your hoodie strings
just setup the conditions of the transitions so that it will only transition when the parameter you created matches the value to drive the animation
grizzled stone
i dont feel its worth taking up an extra perameter though, its just to compliment the hoodie texture
fluid grotto
Can’t it just reference the same parameter?
Add the same parameter name to the other controller don’t need another stage parameter for it
grizzled stone
true
eager horizon
Still havent really looked in to av3 but I want to ask. Is it possible to trigger an animation by tpuching a specific part pf your avatar? For example reaching for your back and pressing trigger would pull out a weapon
restive rivet
Yes, but no. You can detect when you press trigger so you could fake it, and even have a toggle to control when it will allow it
I use a menu to select the gun and the trigger to shoot it
fluid grotto
I am pretty sure you can make collision trigger a stage parameter using particle death
The particle system could be local only and the setting the stage parameter is syched so it won’t get triggered remotely unless it happens locally
fair bison
I need to learn avatar 3.0
For avatar 3.0, can you have different walking animations?
fluid grotto
Oh boy can you
silver adder
You can make completely custom animators.
fluid grotto
Yes and more
Want 23 different walking directions and 38 different speeds all with a unique animation? Go for it
silver adder
Adding multiple animation layers to the controller also opens up many more possibilities.
fair bison
Time for star glitcher then...
fluid grotto
This is going to be much easier for newer creators to pick up, but people used to the old system might be thinking in a box for a bit
silver adder
I was finally able to add an additive animation layer to my locomotion, makes my movement animations SO much better.
fluid grotto
What all do you add to it?
silver adder
My avatar hovers/glides above the ground in a static pose during my walking/running animations, each direction has a single static pose, and now i was able to add the additive layer that gives those static poses some motion.
Not how i would have handled things, but i gotta work with how the animations came...
sinful junco
how would you make a collision a stage perameter? ive looked in the particle trigger and collision section and saw nothing about parameters or sending messages
fluid grotto
You set stage parameters by adding the Stage Parameter Driver behavior to a animation node
When the state machine hits the node, it sets the value you picked
Which can be detected by any other animator or layer anywhere else on the avatar
So anything that can effect a animator in some way can set a stage parameter
royal pendant
sure
fluid grotto
This channel is for av3
modest sun
@sinful junco the way you detect particle collision is to make a particle system with Stop Action set to disable, no emission or burst emission , and low Duration (around 0.15 seconds). On the same object as the particle system, make an animator with a state with a Parameter Driver on it. Use a local parameter not in expression parameters. In your main animator, FX layer I think, turn on (Is Active) the particle system object so it can be reused after it stops.
These systems can get complex. You can use my emulator tool to debug these types of systems: https://github.com/lyuma/Av3Emulator/releases
fluid grotto
Thanks for the details! I never did it myself I was just vaguely aware you could
sinful junco
Low duration as in life time of the particle correct?
and then the object would be parented to the particle system so it only activates when its activated?
marsh haven
Possibly dumb question, but you cannot use any state to go to 2 states at the same time using a parameter?
sinful junco
why do you have two states?
marsh haven
Just a curiousity question, not actually something i currently have
fluid grotto
Each layer can only be in one state at a time if you need it to multitask you put it on a second layer on the controller
sinful junco
i dont actually know, if its in the same layer i have no idea, but if its in seperate layers then yes
marsh haven
Yeah figured i'd just have to use a second layer.
Was just curious what would happen
merry swan
Kinda wish i could, instead of 7 layers i could do one, since they trigger the same thing but does other things once triggered
fluid grotto
If you have a branch and both become true at the same frame then the first listed transition on the node is the path it will take
marsh haven
Yeah like doing multiple things with an if case would be nice
on the same layer thati s
fluid grotto
“Any state” block is how you do ifs
marsh haven
I know
sinful junco
Also off topic but Adeon would you happen to know how to make a animation not loop when you transition to it? like play that animation and then stop at the end and dont transition to another state until the conditions are met
fluid grotto
And then exit is just for teleporting back to start. Not exactly sure how it’s useful
sinful junco
ah ok so just transition to exit?
fluid grotto
I don’t use exit at all
It’s just the same as going back to default state
It will go into exit pop out of start and then go to default
sinful junco
ok well for example , i have a one frame animation that activates a particle. i dont want it too loop but it does. how would i change this
because when i activate that state it restarts the particle over and over
modest sun
@sinful junco no there's a separate duration slot in particle system
Lifetime should be as long as possible
Turn looping off otherwise stop action doesn't work
modest sun
@sinful junco not long Duration but rather long Start Lifetime
Unity particle systems are confusing and there are fields easy to mix up. Duration should be extremely small. Start Lifetime should be large
These things are going to be confusing. Expect to spend several hours or more debugging such things if you choose to make advanced systems like this
sinful junco
ok
fluid grotto
It must be a universal law that particle systems are always extremely archaic and badly named
restive rivet
This, particle systems are chaotic lmao
grizzled stone
this is exactly why i never fuck with particle systems lol
fluid grotto
They are pretty though
@restive rivet do you happen to have a unity stick bug animation asking for a friend
sinful junco
How long do you guys think it will be until they release 3.0? i've made all this cool stuff now i want people to see! 😋
sand wren
buttons are so bad now
i click them and it has a lot of lag and i cant hold them down anymore..?
sand wren
whats the point of them then
they worked fine before the update and my character was totally fine
grizzled stone
is it possible to make a toggle that changes your default set of facial gestures to a whole different set?
as in like, i click a toggle and it changes all my default gestures to ones with varying kinds of angry faces for example
sand wren
yes
you can set them up with sub-state machines like I mentioned in #avatar-help
you can set them up without them but its more complicated, annoying, and disorganized
in the example you see me replacing viseme animations when i am singing or changing the gesture effects
also, the K.K. Slider avatar I made should now be fixed, although there is still a lot of issues with using it currently because buttons have been ruined
grizzled stone
I'm a bit confused on how to use it for this specifically.
sand wren
sub state machine on each layer
the gestures for one type in one SSM
the gesture for the other type in the other SSM
restive rivet
@restive rivet do you happen to have a unity stick bug animation asking for a friend
@fluid grotto maybe 👀
I'm going to sleep rn but I can send it tomorrow
spring trellis
What's the best way to go about making a custom avatar 🤔 I wanna make my black desert character and copy some attack animations from it.
cobalt yew
Someone should really move the av3 category below development so people dont keep asking general avatar questions here instead of the proper avatar creation channels
spring trellis
Well it would also help if there wasn't like 30 channels related to it too.
restive rivet
There's more for actual avatars, this category is just in the wrong place
ivory grail
Is it worth it to develop avatars with sdk3 now or to wait until it comes out
rotund harness
you can get started now but you might have to redo some of your work if they change something
restive rivet
I think the biggest changes already happened, and it wasn't even too hard to rebuild when they did it. So yeah it may be a good moment
neon dagger
Здесь есть русские?
restive rivet
What?
thin trail
I should be able to save as many avatars as I want. Or at least a lot more than 16. I know there are these mod things that give you like 500 avatar slots. Why can’t we do it?
Idk how to make avatars
fluid grotto
This channel is for av3. You want #feature-requests or #avatars-2-general
dapper hearth
Late but Exit is probably good for organization in long and complicated trees.
fluid grotto
True I forgot about sub trees; that’s the way back out to the upper level
fluid grotto
Was the max menu items changed to 9? I recall seeing like 30
neon finch
increased from 8 to 16
fluid grotto
I feel like an expression perimeter asset should not be required on the avatar descriptor, since previously a default one was used if you didn’t provide one. Right now if you don’t want to use one you still need to create one and add it, can’t be blank.
restive rivet
I agree, it will confuse new users. You didn't need an override for av2.
sand wren
are buttons still broken
tepid hatch
Hmm ... I wonder if I can add a camera to tpose so I won't need a mirror to calibrate accurately
opaque sequoia
Before anyone messages me, yes I am aware that the scaling tool has issues with the new beta. I'm working on it
tepid hatch
(by which I mean turn on a camera and display for calibration purposes)
restive rivet
are buttons still broken
it's not a bug, it's intended behaviour. But it's a shame the closest we have to the old behaviour is using a puppet
opaque sequoia
Oh. They replaced the proxy for the tpose which removed it from the state I referenced it in.
silver adder
How do i update the AV3 SDK this time to avoid breaking stuff? Clean and replace or just install it overtop?
opaque sequoia
You can just install overtop.
Check any states in your animators though that used the tpose proxy because it'll need to be put back.
That's the only thing I had to do
silver adder
Yeah, just had to reslot a few proxy animations. Nothing big, thanks!
plush lance
the usefulness of the announcement and info channels for av3 is questionable when the sdk info isn't up to date and it just redirects you to the open beta channel anyway
in fact I would go so far as to say that it's highly misleading
upper remnant
That may be so
merry swan
xyz in animations actually work in 3.0 now, before i wanted to move animation so it doesnt make my avatar animate but its like inside the av, now i can move it around so i can actually see it
xyz worked fine on chair animations just never on a gesture
nimble portal
AV3 was initially not part of the open beta, hence the info channel, it points to the open beta channel now that it’s in the open beta @plush lance
pulsar lagoon
So, since buttons got changed back, are they now considered a puppet menu and update quickly? Or are they just the way they were before they were locked to a 1 second duration?
fallow sequoia
They update faster, and you can hold them, but the puppet menu will still give you the fastest updates.
pulsar lagoon
Alright. I saw in the SDK that it's a minimum of .2 seconds. Is that the update rate of the button for remote viewers? If so, it's perfect for some of the things I wanna use buttons for, since I don't need it to be super precise like puppet menus.
sly spear
Avatars made with 3.0 don't seem to work in the mmd dance worlds (They don't preform the dance, just stuck in the sitting animation)
merry swan
'old' chairs only disable the hip and something else, but for animation need everything on ik need to be turned off , tried to find a work around, when sitting turn off ik but that didnt do a thing on those
turn on debug you can see wich parts is still tracked
pulsar lagoon
As far as I know, many things involving avatar stations are weird in 3.0. I've not personally tried it yet, but I remember seeing a canny saying avatar chairs don't work properly.
gilded delta
So say I’m interested in installing Avatar 3.0, what do I do? Do I go to the website where the VRCSDK stuff is or download it from here? Do I need to use Steam AND Unity?
I know I asked these questions before, but just to clarify what the EXACT and/or SPECIFIC steps I need to take to get this taken care of...
deft lodge
You will need Steam client to enter the open-beta build through VRChat game's properties
for creating content you will need Unity 2018.4.20f1 and latest VRCSDK3 from #open-beta-announcements or #730973243904753705
gilded delta
Thanks~!
sand wren
yay the fixes are done
now that fbt and buttons are fixed i will try av3 again at some point
very happy now
lost niche
If you disable leg tracking, does moving playspace lift you off of the ground when not in FBT? Not sure about the rules of how the avatar tracks your playspace
sand wren
you need at least a hip tracker if i remember correctly
bc the hip is the root of your avatar
theres some things to give u fake body trackers so u can still do it
i dont use those tho so idk
lost niche
Ah okay, so I would have to animate the root without a tracker?
I could use a radial puppet for height off the ground if I needed to, haha
sand wren
i guess but it wouldnt quite work probably
your actual avatar physics/colliders will still be at the floor and unless you use set viewpoint behavior your IK will be bugged
lost niche
gotcha
silent vector
does anyone know where I can find a gen 1 soundwave avatar?
sand wren
1 soundwave..?
if u mean liek a model of a soundwave
its pretty easy to make in blender
just a circle and then stretch it out
then make duplicates
sand wren
oh lol
lost niche
Might get a better answer over at #avatars-2-general
Well, not better, because that was a good answer, but you know what I mean, haha
silent vector
yea
lol thx
im new to this whole thing so rn im just lookin havent gotten to the part when i can make yet lol
grizzled stone
what is the current process for updating the av3 sdk? is it upgrade in place or close unity and delete vrcsdk and whatnot?
merry swan
i just update over it, havnt broken yet
fluid grotto
I believe the current SDK link in #avatar-development-links is outdated.
merry swan
It is, they probably should update that , grab it from openbeta
merry swan
Testing if gifs would work on the menu, they do not eh well not that big deal
grizzled stone
it know it is, but for the current sdk in #open-beta-announcements, is it upgrade in place or delete vrcsdk?
pretty sure its delete but i dont want to jinx myself
sand wren
ok so
if ur upgrading it depends
if ur on a version that doesnt have a slot in the descriptor
for expression parameters
u need a completely new project actually
with no VRCSDK
or at least a duplicate of the other project
with no VRCSDK
but if you have that slot then its just inplace
u will also need to remake all your menus and parameters if the other was the case
which is why u need duplicate
grizzled stone
i have the slot for expression parameters
white laurel
So I've been wanting to upgrade my avatar (which I had commissioned) to v3 (but this time I'm gonna work on the avatar myself, and have my commissioner teach me how).
I've made a whole list of ideas for my avatar, one of them being the ability to change the graphic on my shirt (I want to be able to change my avatar's outfit using different colors and graphics, as well as an optional jacket or hoodie, having a different outfit every day like one would irl). I was wondering if this could be done with a standard 0-100% dial (like one you'd use to control lightness/darkness or the color of an object)? I figured that'd be a simple method of adjusting which graphic I want. If I store a different design for every 10% of the wheel, I can store 10 different shirt designs, or if I do every 5% I can store 20. Would that work, or would a different method work better?
shy rose
Yeah, you could do it.
restive rivet
Why don't you use toggles though?
Toggles have names and icons, if you use a % slider you will have to remember the position or try them all to find the one you want
white laurel
@restive rivet My idea was I'd be changing my outfit in front of a mirror anyway, and I'd go through them all to see which one I wanna wear that day. If I used a toggle, how many designs could I fit?
restive rivet
At first it was 8, idk if they changed it to 16. Even though, you can make different submenus. I have a clothes menu and inside there's shirts, sweatshirts and hoodies menus. But it's up to personal prefference
white laurel
I'm new to this so I dunno how I'd want things laid out
Also, I was wondering if certain aspects of gestures could be toggled
Like, not switching to a different gesture palette entirely, just changing one part
For example, my avatar's fox ears droop when I squeeze my grips, could I toggle it so that it doesn't do that when I turn it off?
I want to be able to use my avatar for talking in front of a virtual camera, and gestures like closing my eyes for a smile get in the way
Would I be able to do that for certain parts or would I need a separate gesture palette?
restive rivet
What do you mean by a gesture palette?
white laurel
Like, your overall gesture settings. Holding grip button does this, touching the thumbstick does that, etc.
I saw that you guys said it was possible to have a toggle to swap to a different set of gestures
So I was wondering if it was possible to toggle individual aspects of an avatar's gestures
upper remnant
yeah it is
meager prairie
Hey does A3 now supports eyelid bones?
shy rose
Oh yikes, the basic hand gestures aren't good. I better go make my own.
meager prairie
Good to see that.
iron saddle
hi everyone
is it possible in udon or av3_avatar to create something to enable your avatar
to grab someone without they need to seat in your hand
I don't think you can affect other avatars in any way with av3
grizzled stone
i dont see why you'd want to either
restive rivet
Hey does A3 now supports eyelid bones?
@meager prairie I think it does
So I was wondering if it was possible to toggle individual aspects of an avatar's gestures
@white laurel I think it would be, but it would use from 5 to 10 parameters and you would have to set it up every time you change worlds
white laurel
@restive rivet That works. What do you mean 5-10 parameters?
restive rivet
I fogot if there were 5 gestures or more. But anyways, you would need a different parameter for every gesture, to choose what every gesture would do. Twice as much if you want to go full madman and do it for the right and left hands individually
It's something to keep in mind as you have a maximum of 16 parameters
You can have "local" parameters but I haven't found a use for them yet, I guess it's for more complex stuff
fluid grotto
if you don't like the new hand idle, idle2 is the same as 2.0, you can plop that one in
@shy rose
Hey does A3 now supports eyelid bones?
@meager prairie Right now the system uses shape key blinking, asking for 3 shape keys: Both eyes blinking, eyelids when looking up, and eyelids when looking down. There's no option to be bone driven right now as of the latest SDK. But you can still animate them and put them on an idle yourself, but it won't be dynamic based on the eyetracking
fallow sequoia
@meager prairie @fluid grotto Actually, AV3 does support bones for eyelids. Its used on the Chicken, but it works for both human and generic avatars.
fluid grotto
Wait, where is the option for that?
Oh i found it! Can't believe I missed that dropdown
meager prairie
@fluid grotto @fallow sequoia
Mhm I see thank you for the info will check the chicken model that has it as well.
And @fallow sequoia do know if Vrchat gonna support true eye tracking.
So far in unity and testing in other program all the models seem to work with it flawlessly as long as there simulated eye tracking works eyelid bones seem to be needed to allow blinking.
Seeing you supporting eyelid bones method made me think perhaps you gonna support eye tracking soon it.
Should be easy to implement as simulated eye tracking is already in game just take the eye tracker data.
iron saddle
@grizzled stone
i want that because i can grab my wife and friends in my hand
and lose ourselfs in the wonderful wonderland of vrchat 😋
fallow sequoia
It's a chicken and egg problem 
We don't want to devote time to supporting hardware eyetracking unless a significant population is using it, but until we do, I suppose a large population won't purchase the required hardware.
restive rivet
No one wanted FBT till VRChat started supporting it, it may be the same
restive rivet
Yeah and compatible with all steamvr headsets, idk if eye tracking modules for other headsets will be a thing
But eye tracking would add a lot of life to avatars
meager prairie
I agreed on that point it was the same case for FBT.
But I guess you guys and other devs took a leap of faith and supported it even tho not many had it if barely any.
Now fast forward everyone wants it and it's in such high demand.
The chicken and the egg problem is pretty annoying to new tech.
toxic arch
Isn't there only one headset that gives you irl eye tracking?
and its super expensive
restive rivet
Vive pro eye I think?
toxic arch
Yea
restive rivet
Idk if there's more consumer headsets that have it
meager prairie
@restive rivet there already a add on for existing Hmds I believe vive and pro supports it unsure about index
restive rivet
So it's kinda understandable to see it as a waste of time right now
toxic arch
only other company I could see producing irl eye tracking is Microsoft's augmented reality
restive rivet
Oh shit
toxic arch
wait what 👀
restive rivet
Quest I don't think so, Oculus is very... special about what their headsets work with
meager prairie
Index my bad
fallow sequoia
Oh, BTW, regarding the gestures: you should be able to devote just one parameter to "Gesture modes" and have up to 255 options for your hands. Your Gesture Layer would just branch into one of 255 different sub-trees for each gesture type, then the gestures themselves would still use the HandGesture parameters.
restive rivet
If there was one for Index I'd get that shit. It wouldn't only be nice for VRC, foviated rendering is amazing
meager prairie
DoF is a plus as it will blur far objects more persisly
restive rivet
Oh yeah a "gesture mode" would only take one param, true. But being able to choose every single one individually woult take a bunch
restive rivet
Imagine making 255 trees by hand jesus christ agshshjs
fallow sequoia
well, 255 modes, with 7 unique gestures each
restive rivet
But theoretically it's possible
I wish you could do any kind of math through animators, then we would be able to do some binary-like stuff and put various parameters in one
meager prairie
That's a huge jump from what we have now
fallow sequoia
you guys are funny 16 params with 255 options each. and you want more!
meager prairie
👀
wispy ferry
my avatars are not uploadeding
opaque sequoia
isn't there way more than 255 each if you use floats and Driver?
sonic spade
hackspanner, 16 bit integer limit or bust
iron saddle
idk for hardware E.T. thing
but i know that we can achieve it with:
1 special shaders that are responsive to external motion
2 we can also move eyes manually with triggering
3 some colliders that will control eye movement
4 make eye animations
5 and make on trigger blendshapes
so why do we need support for eye tracking capable vr hardware anyway
meager prairie
@iron saddle Real eye tracking brings quite a lot of life to models and as the game already has the simulated eye tracking all is needed is to allow control of that bone with its eyelid bone.
In unity every model i tested works pretty flawlessly with some minor adjustments no blender work was needed.
Other then the Increased life it brings to models it allows DoF or Foveated Rendering to be possible and lastly like hackspanner said its the chicken and egg issue where no support means no demand so no easy option to get the hardware so a leap of faith in supporting new things is needed like how fbt trackers were pretty useless before.
Now they are in heavy demand.
I do hope it gets support as this will make new HMDs add it and aftermarket addons will exist as demand will start going up.
iron saddle
@meager prairie
hmm assuming your comment
i don't see why is that such a problem
i mean as we know that there is already simulated eye tracking
so i think that is not so big deal creating script that will key-log sensor for eye tracking
and then tell eye to go to corresponding angle
it is probably the same thing as leap motion case i think
because it can read IR motion data and tell steam vr user interaction
wispy ferry
av2
iron saddle
right right.
meager prairie
Agreed
raw sonnet
Is A pose going to be better supported?
sonic spade
in what way?
restive rivet
You can make a model in A pose and force it into a T pose in the unity rig config
Unity works with T poses, it's not VRC's fault
av2
@wispy ferry try #avatars-2-general
torpid sundial
Help i cant get the beta working on steam i cant add it does it have a code?? idk
please help
??????
the beta not working
lime plume
nah you just click on the betas tab, select open beta, and it should queue an update
wild lion
Amazing
raw sonnet
really wish Unity supported the a pose better because the a pose is meant to help with making sure the bends work properly on the model
fallow sequoia
As Demirramon said, it's fine to model in A-Pose, which will give you the better skinning around the shoulders. You just need to configure the avatar into the TPose for mecanim. That's purely for animation matching. Forcing the TPose in your rig config does not affect the skinning.
raw sonnet
I'm starting to consider using a vroid model, edit that by taking from my current model and putting it on the vroid model. So stuff like the vambrace, face mask, pauldrons, chest piece, hair + horns, and the boots
sand wren
@opaque sequoia yes, use parameter proxies
so a cool thing about animations is that they can animate animator parameters
and u can make a proxy parameter
and a stage parameter
then all u need to do is make an animation that changes your proxy parameter
from start to end
then use ur stage parameter in that animation as Normalized Time
and if u turned off looping it should adjust ur proxy parameter based on ur stage parameter
loud arrow
Can I Use Viseme Parameter when I don't set viseme to 'viseme parameter'?
fluid grotto
Yes, although what values it contains depends on the mode chosen
It can indicate visiemes index (0-14) or volume (0-100) depending
restive rivet
Can you detect the mode used?
... actually that's not really useful as it's for one specific avatar
But maybe for shared animators
restive rivet
We aren't that many people trying the beta out, sadly I bet it's hard to find someone there
fluid grotto
Can you even join on random people in open-beta and see them? I think the only way is with an instance invite link.
And unless you are on this discord and browsing Tupper's posts, you won't find it. but yeah I hang on there when I'm on - but it's always empty heh
grizzled stone
yeah you can only find people by chance really
versed hill
I favorited the beta hub after i had a hard time findin it. Shame no one is really ever in there. (Also annoying because I wanna show off but mirrors/cameras hate my avatars =/)
grizzled stone
im about to head into a public instance now if any of yall want to join! would love to see some new av3 stuff
@versed hill its easy to find if you just search "tupper" in the worlds search box
versed hill
Maybe later. Sorry but gonna watch a movie with the fam (princess bride, guess i fell for one of the classic blunders).
modest sun
@restive rivet You actually can do quite complex math using animator controllers. Basically, animation clips can drive float parameters using Animator.YYYYY keyframes in the animation track, and you can combine that with features such as normalized time, blend trees, speed parameters and more.
The way you would use normalized time, is you can take the function you want, and make an animation clip that does not loop, and goes from 0.0 to 1.0, and make the keyframes line up with the graph of the function you wish to emulate. For example, want a log function? draw a log function in the Curves tab of the animator. Want to square? use that. Want to calculate a sin wave, draw a sin wave in the animator curves. Now you have a clip which sets one Float parameter to sin(another float parameter). Want an exponential curve? draw an exponential curve! easy.
You can use blend trees to combine multiple Float parameters, and so on. Finally, float parameters can be used in conditions such as Less and Greater. Caveat: Anything you do to animator-driven Float parameters will be local only, even if specified in expression parameters... the unity animation system will forcefully override any Float parameters touched by an animation clip every frame.
[Side node, and rabbit hole: Direct blend trees can allow multiplication and addition of multiple values, for example, it can provide a means to integrating values over time... for example integrating VelocityX,Y,Z to calculate PositionX,Y,Z. however, if combined incorrectly with Write Defaults, direct blend trees may double all outputs of your animation controller, including values you would not want doubled, and values set by other layers.... so it's a bit of a double edged sword and hard to get right in my experience. Expect to have confusing things like trying to disable an object (Is Active = 0, and having like animation clips setting Is Active to -1.5 to add together with 1.5 somewhere else and get the damn thing to hit 0 and actually turn off the object.... My suggestion is avoid direct blend trees, but if you choose to go headfirst, expect to experience several days of brainmelting mindbending shenanigans debugging the thing until you achieve Direct Blend Tree enlightment.]
[ basically... the issue with direct blend trees, is all animation states when using Write Defaults actually set all values of the animation controller to their current values, of course anything set in the animation clip will override this. So if your animator currently sets Blend Shape.O to 0.75 and you have two clips in your Direct Blendtree which set something completely unrelated, and the blend tree currently has weights 1.0 and 0.66 my experience is it will add 0.75 + 0.5 and set the Blend Shape.O output to 1.25. Next time, it will add 1.25 and 0.83 and get 2.08 and so on... to workaround this, what I usually do is I set every output of the animator to 0 in every animation clip except for one which I give constant weight 1.0... but it gets more complicated becuase the initial values could get affected ... etc. and so those I may need negative of the initial value, for example Is Active = -1.0 (you need to set this without an object selected because you can't negate a checkbox) If I've scared you off from using Direct BlendTrees for mindbending math, good. Or don't use Write Defaults anywhere, but then you're going to have other weird issues. ]
Do note, no matter what you do, Playable Layers do not affect each other's state machines! Thank goodness. You don't have to worry about the Gesture layer crouching your avatar or something silly. They only override the outputs.
neon finch
yes
obsidian mirage
Is there a roadmap for when 3.0 support will be pushed to the release build of VR chat? Now that I'm starting to understand controllers and menus I wanna switch over now. Once you tween expressions it's kind of hard to go back to hand gestures...
chrome obsidian
i only have one suggestion, they need to make the jump happen when you push up on the right stick instead of pushing A, so we dont lose as much mobility like we kinda do now, we dont push up for anything so why not?
upper remnant
what controller?
@obsidian mirage there have been no mentions of a timeline, but i think it will be just a few weeks
or even sooner
being in open beta branch is a good indicator, as well as the progress on FBT and safety system issues
probably just a couple more builds based on feedback and bug reports
sucks that someone attacked the canny because that might have slowed things down
they actually use the canny
obsidian mirage
aww. Well the work that has been done thus far is amazing and really transformative. Imagine creating sign language expression controls or a pen that activates when you open a menu and is controlled by the opposite hand. The things this could be used for to enhance accessibility. Not to mention how much more expressive the expressions can be by just tweening blend shapes.... I know I'm new to the party but just wow.
fluid grotto
I just don’t like clicking sticks in general. I feel like it increases stick deadzone the more you use it
silver adder
Imagine creating sign language expression controls
Wunder Wulfe already did that.
I think the method they used to do it got patched out tho, because it relied on a UI bug.
fluid grotto
I’m assuming the change was the limit of menus to eight items per menu?
silver adder
Yep.
fluid grotto
Hm.. Easy to increase later. Hard to decrease later
merry swan
it get really crowded on it after 8
silver adder
Oh, the bug still exists.
Thought it got patched in this most recent SDK update...
I was going to say what it was, but i better not since it still exists.
fluid grotto
I don’t blame them for wanting to enforce clean UI. But without icons, 26 single letter wedges was ok.
Maybe a new menu type would work. Sort of like radial, but integer based
opaque sequoia
So I guess AV3 is coming to live this week then huh?
fluid grotto
Maybe!
lime plume
hype
neon finch
Yes!!
restive rivet
Holy shit y e s
cobalt yew
god the more i look at the showoff channel's history the more i want av3.0 to go live.. hype is real..
restive rivet
After trying av3 I don't even want to play with av2, it makes such a difference in every way
I'm so happy to see it's so close
dapper hearth
Damn, I meant to get a head start on this but it's releasing in a week
lime plume
Would be cool to have an AV3 asset sharing channel, since AV3 makes it easier to share stuff
teal path
How likely would it be that avatars created after its released would break eventually?
fluid grotto
Guaranteed. I mean are we talking heat death of the universe, or some time shorter?
I'd expect all avatars to break in some way with future updates, especially when it comes to major unity updates
After trying av3 I don't even want to play with av2, it makes such a difference in every way
@restive rivet Same. The idea of creating hand emotes feels like caveman drawings.
grizzled stone
probably more or less just as common as av2 avatars would break
i think i see myself still using hand emotes for a while, changing faces with a puppet system or anything else feels way too jarring for me
sturdy smelt
they were trying to get the breaking updates out of the way in beta, hopefully they ironed out most of it
silver mango
Hello everyone. I'm looking for good resources to start working on AV3, for now I have the AV3 walktrough. Would you say the AV3 walktrough guide provides all the necessary fundamentals, so I can make whatever is now possible thanks to AV3? Thanks!
grizzled stone
you should read through the documentation as well if you havent already
silver mango
gotcha, thanks
grizzled stone
besides that theres not much else to read up on, go nuts
sand wren
why can i not access the canny anymore?
did they lock off access?
it tells me to use a g suite account which is apparently provided by schools and businesses/companies
so im assuming regular users are locked out
muted gazelle
Locked currently because of bot spam that happened the other day
muted gazelle
Thousands and thousands of spam posts by bots
sand wren
also ur profile picture reminds me of LBP
sonic spade
From what i understand it was more than 30k spam posts
sand wren
wow
muted gazelle
The character is from lbp so yeah 😄
sand wren
i was making a lbp-like game but was stuck on how they made drawable objects
that a bit off topic tho so
also some people been telling me open beta will be live soon
is soon like within the end of the month?
opaque sequoia
They said it in their community post
sand wren
wheres the post
opaque sequoia
That it would be this week
sand wren
omg epic
opaque sequoia
sand wren
i can finally unleash av3.0 madness!!!
i wanna make a whole lobby of singing animal crossing characters
also does the final note mean
adding av3 to sdk3 as in the same sdk used to make udon worlds?
or will it still be separate sdk still
sand wren
also, will the safety system remain intact the way it is?
i fear that it will suck for quest compatibility because a lot of stuff i have hidden might be bad for the quest like particles that i might have to get rid of alltogether
sand wren
i finally got a good model to use on my public avatar 3.0 demo though, after all this time thankfully
but now i must redo all the menus i had made because of the big update a while back
big sad but maybe end of this month or halfway into next month bc of college i can get a good basis for avatar3.0 avatars so people can base their work off of it
restive rivet
3.0 is confusing at first, but was the animation overrides list easy to understand shen you first saw it?
Getting an av3 to have the basic av2 features is actually relatively simple, and from there the sky is the limit
candid forum
this ^ took me many many many times before i fully understood how to set up the override controller properly through and through XD
the worst part is that i still forget alot so i gotta ask for help anyway
restive rivet
I still haven't found a single guide that explains every single slot properly lol
odd zinc
well at least i understood the basics
now
for 2.0
;-; i just mastered 2.0 this week
and 3.0 came out
sharp path
I also just started learning 2.0, been over a month since I started and just when I'm getting comfortable I hear version 3 is coming out. I hope there's not too much thats different
I had things like a button menu and particles on my avatars, guessing I'll have to figure that stuff out again for 3
restive rivet
Well, uhhh
Literally everything changes actually ahdhfjjf
Well, regarding animations
restive rivet
But it comes with so much improvements
You no longer have to perform witchcraft for eye tracking for example
sharp path
I liked the menu/inventory system -_-
austere rose
people already made plugin that you can drag your animation and it will build the animator for you
restive rivet
You can make inventories super easily now
sharp path
0_0
restive rivet
The av2 systems were hacky messes
You now can literally have a menu with items
And just toggle them
100% supported
restive rivet
This system has a more complex basis but it's so damn powerful
You are in full control of what your avatar does without any kind of hacky solutions
sharp path
I will wait to try 3.0 when Its out. Though I will probably need to go back to watching tutorial vids bleh
restive rivet
If av3 seems overwhelming you can keep your av2 avatars, they will still work, but I think it's something worth checking out
sharp path
I will definitely look at it, but might not get very far until tutorials are out, but if its more polished and easier to work with then its a good investment to learn it.
wintry glade
I just hope they fix the outstanding bugs before release, canny being locked does not bode well though I assume the devs can still access it
restive rivet
Yeah, I specially hope they make the expression menu slot optional as new users will lose their minds
sharp path
over expressions?
Whats different between 2 and 3 for expressions?
also a menu slot for expressions, as in you can change a whole set of expressions for your gestures?
Theres an avatar I was tempted to make 2 versions of because I couldn't decide whether it should be shy or smiling
restive rivet
The expression menu is the name of the menus you can make to trigger any kind of animation
I've made a submenu for facial expressions, it's one of the easiest things to do
But yeah you could also make different sets of gestures and swap between them, I think someone did that in #avatar-showcase
grizzled stone
that me
restive rivet
But back to the optional thing, it's because the overrides were optional on av2 and the expression menus are more confusing (at first glance) than overrides
Oh shit ye
Cool stuff btw 👌
grizzled stone
have there been anymore kinds of av3 plugins/prefabs released? i saw the avatar scaling one, wondering if theres any other cool plugins
restive rivet
So far I've only seen the scaling one
silver adder
I'd expect all avatars to break in some way with future updates, especially when it comes to major unity updates
In that case, if everything is going to break anyways, they might as well upgrade the renderer to URP. Better performance plus a built in visual shader editor.
wintry glade
Wouldn't that be a guaranteed breaking of every avatar? at this point that's suicide
silver adder
I mean, if there was an update that would break everything like someone mentioned above. Might as well move over to a better renderer while they are at it.
wintry glade
Well its mainly the difference of slight breaks or weird things happening on non updated avatars, versus a clear cut "reupload everything youve ever done to even see it"
silver adder
I'm just theoretically speaking, not saying there will be a massive content-breaking update anytime soon.
wintry glade
For example you can still use AV2 when AV3 comes out IIRC
silver adder
Also, Unity can automatically upgrade old materials to URP materials. I feel like there could be a way to do that at runtime.
But I'm getting ahead of myself. Again, this is all theoretical.
deft lodge
I don't know if anyone else noticed this but VRChat's default locomotion layer that comes with new AV3SDK from #open-beta-announcements doesn't have "proxy_stand_still" animation assigned to the "Restore tracking" state which makes avatar go into the ground during the time it restores tracking after a jump.
(Yes, just placing proxy_stand_still back into that state fixes it, but it just doesn't come assigned by default with the SDK)
fluid grotto
Didn't spot that, was hoping there was a way smooth that out! Recommend making a canny for it when canny isn't dead
strong whale
Hey, the eyelids up and down used to be separated in blendshape as lowerlid_left and lowerlid_right in AV2, but in AV3SDK, there's only one slot per up/down!
It''s mean that the Avatar creator needs to recreate a blendshape with the left and right sides together.
Isn't that a bit harsh?
deft lodge
mix those separate eyelids together into one shapekey and export it, takes about 5 minutes
no need to recreate them
strong whale
I know it's easy like that, but I don't want to edit FBX so much because I'm selling avatars.
deft lodge
ah, that makes more sense.
Although i feel like the idea of new AV3 was also the part that you want to pretty much redo some things to your fbx anyway, if you are planning to build more content with it and stuff
strong whale
Considering the compatibility with the AV 2 Blendshape, two slots in each Looking Up/Down would be nice.
Oh, Blink animation was separated in AV2 ... It would be nice to have two slot in menu, too.
fluid grotto
Blink was separated but it never used them separately
I think you will find most cats avatars blink both eyes with left eye and right blink does nothing
deft lodge
yeah, but you can't just put one sided blink into a new sdk where it requires 2 of them now haha
fluid grotto
That’s what I’m saying check the left blink on many avatars it blinks both and right is useless
strong whale
Blink was separated but it never used them separately
Yes But the shape keys were provided separately in the system, so I created them accordingly on FBX.
fluid grotto
Yeah. It’s more optimized to have them as one though
strong whale
Well, I'm an engineer, so I didn't want the data to be weird. I wanted to match the name of the shape key with the movement.
fluid grotto
Joining is simple in blender just activate both and pick new key from mix
deft lodge
i already mentioned it - read above, it's more of a problem about having to send the fbx avatar again because they are selling them
fluid grotto
It’ll take sone time before stuff switched over, but SdK2 will still work - just takes some tweaking to port to 3. I expect many to stay on SDK2 for a while until the 3.0 features become worth the converting
sharp path
Yeah that wouldn't be fun sending the files to everyone all over again
fluid grotto
Wouldn’t you be doing that anyways if you are porting to SDK3? Since you need to send all the menu assets and such
Can’t expect everyone to write their own playable layers
strong whale
The fewer differences are better for both the creator and user.
fluid grotto
If they can do that they could just make their own shape key
deft lodge
i mean, it depends - you won't always be selling AV3 content - you probably just make an fbx avatar for VRCSDK to use with and if people already bought it and got it once and now it has to be edited - you will have to resend it
fluid grotto
That’s all I’m saying if someone knows how to use STK3 and set up their own playable layers, they probably know how to merge a shape key as well
versed hill
With av2 still fully compatible, I don’t see a lot of people using av3 anyways unless their avatars need it (takes a lot longer to setup a v3 compared to a v2)
fluid grotto
Yeah, people will just advertise that it’s for SDK2
And you should use the appropriate one
Honesty? if people are going to sell avatars advertising SDK three compatibility I’d expect it to be a unity package with the layers and menu all set up already
versed hill
(And possibly a service charge for switching commissioned ones from v2 to v3. Cha ching lol)
deft lodge
i mean it's not always a fully finished SDK avatar, some people sell fbx only
fluid grotto
If it’s FBX only then I probably would just not worry about it