avatar-general

[hollow basin]

it seems to work with the spaceship, but I cant scale it anymore?

hmmm.. well ima need to find out why it doesnt work even though vrcfury still puts the menu thing in

[abstract crow]

im trying to upload this avatar yet the sdk seems broken..?

nvfm the problem seems to have fixed itself apparently

[primal hedge]

So, almost always the only error that matters is the one at the top, in this case it says you tried uploading an avatar with a blueprint ID (the unique number identifying the avatar) that isn't yours, so it cleared it, which fixed the issue.

It happens that creators sometimes forget to clear the blueprint ID before they package everything up

[copper oyster]

where can i get some mandaloran assets

[sour rose]

so my avatar has went permanently into this bike pose, and nothing i do seems to fix it back to the way it was before

what do

[pastel ermine]

Has anyone made a quilt camera system for VRC? Or something?

[spare berry]

select all the bone, right click the transforms then reset them

[sleek orbit]

Did the servers crash?

[brave trout]

I'm wondering the same thing cause website downs and everything

[feral gust]

I think so I’m also wondering the same thing

[devout raft]

🚨 VRChat is aware of increased latency and error rates with their API. Please keep an eye on#server-status for updates. 🚨 just passing the message

[atomic mulch]

Why is it down

[sage wigeon]

cuz they're stupid

https://tenor.com/view/bring-it-back-i-can't-read-my-mail-because-i'm-foolish-i-can't-read-my-mail-because-i'm-stupid-chief-keef-lovesosa-gif-1668876884441754566

[dapper night]

ofc when i want to work on my avatar the servers are down

[hollow star]

U make avis? 👀

[dapper night]

i dont do models if thats what youre asking

i suck at modeling stuff

[sage wigeon]

can u make uhh

Inkblot mickmick

from nightmare before disney

[hollow star]

That's actually really cool! I didn't know people did commissions for Avis

[sage wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/inkblot-mickmick-mickmick-fnati-nbd-nightmare-before-disney-gif-16790445448448750612

[dapper night]

bro what is that😭

[sage wigeon]

inkblot mickmick

he looks much better nowadays

[quartz wave]

Does anyone have any videos or anything I can use to start creating avatars? I just started using my pc and I want to do that but I genuinely don’t even know where to start.

[narrow wolf]

As someone who's also learning. Best to start with editing a model. They sell bases for models or sometimes creators give away base files for free too

[quartz wave]

My issue is I’m confused on how to find models and then how to get them into unity so I can start messing with them

I’ve also got a lot of free assets from people but idk how to download those either

[olive junco]

hi

i need hel

p

[narrow wolf]

https://youtu.be/ixT8MssX_AQ?si=hBq5Uz0G0lsmgMna

[olive junco]

prime

[arctic dirge]

also read all of this: https://creators.vrchat.com/avatars

[prime jungle]

oops

[lavish monolith]

so, what is the HARD limit for Texture Memory before an avatar hits Medium? Because it's not accurate in the SDK

the SDK says this

but in-game, the avatar is Medium with this being the cause

[candid inlet]

Stuff like VRCFury and other post-processors tend to add stuff in the pipeline, I'd imagine stuff gets changed around a fair bit before it gets up to the servers.

[lavish monolith]

I don't see any of that in the avatar project (I know for a fact I didn't add VRCFury, Modular Avatar or anything similar)

[candid inlet]

huh, interesting what does it say your texture memory is on the sdk?

[primal hedge]

https://creators.vrchat.com/avatars/avatar-performance-ranking-system/#pc-limits

[lavish monolith]

didn't know there was a setting to show all stats til now, so that's helpful, but where's it getting the additional 5mb...

[lavish monolith]

so it's 75mb. thanks at least I know what number I need to get down to after upload

[candid inlet]

I wonder if it is including the profile picture...

[primal hedge]

So. . it is a bit weird, but it apparently isn't just trivial to measure texture memory, nothing that measures texture memory really agrees with each other.

[lavish monolith]

that'd be REALLY dumb if correct

[primal hedge]

If it was then it would not be 5mb, that is a lot.

[lavish monolith]

is it maybe not calculating decals/masks correctly in the SDK the same way it does in-game?

[candid inlet]

I forgot scales of image sizes lol, mb

[lavish monolith]

I mean, I have screenshots that are too big to upload to Discord without Nitro lol

[primal hedge]

It has entirely to do with the implemented to way of measuring it.
The most accurate is the one you see in game, as it is the value that the server side checking gets, which is seemingly just loading in the avatar raw, outside of the Unity editor's limitations, to measure things.

[desert carbon]

does anyone know what to do if ur vcc isnt working

[primal hedge]

Be specific, we can't help otherwise

[desert carbon]

i tried everything.

[candid inlet]

use alcom...

not vcc

[desert carbon]

whats alcom

[primal hedge]

Well, never seen that before

[lavish monolith]

yeah that's a new one to me

[desert carbon]

i dont work on avis that much so be nice with me

idk what happened or anything

it started yesterday

[primal hedge]

I suggest asking in #creator-companion instead, since that is the appropriate channel.

[candid inlet]

vcc hasn't seen reall updates in years, it's not your fault

[desert carbon]

ok

[desert carbon]

but what is alcom btw

[primal hedge]

Only thing that comes to mind is that your firewall has gotten extremely aggressive for some reason

[desert carbon]

it shouldnt have

[candid inlet]

https://wiki.vrchat.com/wiki/Community:ALCOM

[primal hedge]

Alcom is a community replacement for Creator Companion, it is quite a bit nicer in general tbh.

[desert carbon]

ohhhh

bro none of my people do avis or tell me how to do stuf

so i feel like a late bloomer

[primal hedge]

It is mostly meant for Linux and MacOS users, which VCC doesn't support.

[candid inlet]

all good, it shouldn't be expected for new people to know stuff not commonly documented

[primal hedge]

And it is a lot of stuff to learn, a lot of VRC specific stuff as well

[desert carbon]

how do i download for windows?

i feel stupid

[primal hedge]

This is why I don't personally recommend that everyone use ALCOM, it is a developer tool.
Search for CMD in windows and press enter, that will open the command line and as it says in the wiki, you can copy the "winget install" command right into there to install it.

[desert carbon]

ah

[arctic dirge]

developer tool? fascinating.

get it here, btw: https://vrc-get.anatawa12.com/en/alcom/

[primal hedge]

Thinking about it, calling a developer tool isn't correct, was searching for a word to convey that how you should probably already be comfortable with VCC and creation before you jump to using a tool where you can't as easily get tech support for it.
"Creator" is too wide for that.

[arctic dirge]

okay, I see what point you're trying to make here

[solemn ice]

I would just call it project and package manager.

[misty needle]

What do yall use to re texture your avatars? I don’t want substance painter cuz 25$ a month is criminal

[sinful remnant]

I hate these fake ahh avi comissioners

[rustic iris]

Can anyone make an avatars of those tatsugiri for me

All 3 of them

[arctic dirge]

Head over to the VRC Traders discord if you want to commission someone, you'll just get scammers messaging you here.

[spark tusk]

I think i can be done in blender which is FOSS

[arctic dirge]

You can buy it one-time if you want (but won't get updates after the next version comes out), but yeah, Blender with add-ons like ucuPaint or LayerPainter isn't bad. Possibly ArmorPaint (can be free if you build from source), it's quite promising though it's still a bit unstable.

[misty needle]

Noted noted

I think I actually did it once with the pre built vrc unity thingy, but I forgot how

I think I downloaded the texture image and recolored it on my pc? Then replaced the old pic

[arctic dirge]

sure, you could use any image editor to work in 2D

[tidal kraken]

I have a very specific question:
I want to modify the default viseme animator. I know you can make your own custom viseme animators, but I want to base it off the default animator and do some minor changes, but I can't find where the animator for the visemes is located. It has to be in the vrchat unity files somewhere, right?

[merry swan]

you make it using viseme in some blendtree or layer -- exsample of one, detects vismee and does stuff

[tidal kraken]

yeah, but I want to look at the default animator for reference, where can I find it?

what component is that?

[merry swan]

blendtree

[tidal kraken]

I mean on the left side

[merry swan]

av3 emulator , rare i use gesture manager

[tidal kraken]

still doesn't answer my question

[arctic dirge]

there isn't one that we can see, it's handled on VRChat's side.

[tidal kraken]

ah, bummer...

guess I'll have to make up something from scratch

[arctic dirge]

it's a single parameter so it shouldn't be a big deal to do

[tidal kraken]

was thinking about if there might be a way to make the standard lipsync less jittery with some smoothing, but not sure what would work, so first I'd need a framework I can experiment with

[pale kindle]

Is the VRChat SDK down, or is there something I can do to fix it?
I haven't been able to upload anything

[tidal kraken]

vrchat had been having problems last night too, not sure if there's still some outage

[arctic dirge]

Unlikely, but check for reports in #server-status

[merry swan]

uploaded 40 something last hour cause i noticed the proxy doing wierd things

[pale kindle]

nvm chat, im just an idiot, i was in play mode 💀

[arctic dirge]

aha

[gray seal]

is it really worth it to put the avatar in medium? I cant make it into medium without breaking something or eliminate any type of physics from the clothes

[merry swan]

poor and below is fine , very poor tend to be EXTREMELY very poor but some place you not getting in without good / excellent

[arctic dirge]

I always aim for Medium, but yeah Poor is generally just fine too.

[merry swan]

physbone on good can be annoying (16 transforms) so some end up medium - skirts + hair + ear + tail easy above it

[gray seal]

its so annoying xD my friewnd its getting a quest, that means he will not be able to see my avatar?

quest 3 specifically

[merry swan]

you would need a <10mb avatar to upload for android (ios i guess) or they will see a funny autogenerated fallback

[gray seal]

damn

[tidal kraken]

in my eyes medium is already really good, poor is also acceptable, very poor seems to be the norm

[gray seal]

I guess very poor can be from an ok avatar to a horrible thign that will just crash your game

[tidal kraken]

only the quest or can they link their quest to a PC?

[arctic dirge]

I can't jab at people for being poor or very poor if I am also, so I usually do medium 🙂

[gray seal]

he is so basic he will not do anything else extra than what it comes with the standard quest experience, he has a capable pc but he will probably will not do it

[tidal kraken]

then you'll need to fit the quest specific avatar requirements and upload it as a quest avatar in order for them to be able tosee it

[merry swan]

id force them to try Steam Link , frames will easy be alot better quest is easy sub 20

[tidal kraken]

a friend of mine plays with quest 2, linked to a decent PC and he can see avatars just fine

[arctic dirge]

I do too, of course it's fine, you're using the PC version.

[tidal kraken]

looks like what I was trying to do has been done before, shame that it's not publicly available https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJr0RVEEa8

[merry swan]

thats just transition time to a viseme , bet it look wierd if you speak fast

[tidal kraken]

it doesn't have to be that extreme

[empty dagger]

yeah transition time or float smoothing with visemes can cause delay + look weird when talking fast (skipping some visemes)

[empty dagger]

but if you want to make it smoother then the easiest way (with some delay) is just float smoothing. Gogo loco comes with a viseme setup already made that you can use

[tidal kraken]

ah, haven't looked int Gogo loco yet

[empty dagger]

it's not in any of the stuff you have to add, just in the demo folder iirc

[tidal kraken]

thought it wa just for locomotion stuff

[empty dagger]

franada likes to add test stuff idk lol

also gogo loco comes with controllers that are better for customizing than the default vrchat ones (even the ones that don't change anything like gesture controller)

there's a lot of interesting stuff if you dig through the files

[tidal kraken]

nice, I'm gonna check it out

[lilac wharf]

You should wear quest compatible avatars anyways so you don't exclude quest users. It's not too much these days as you can just use VRCQuestTools and it does almost everything for you

[spiral idol]

I have a modeling question, is there any channel in specific i'm likely to get a respnse if i post there? thanks in advance~! ♥

[lilac wharf]

Maybe https://discord.com/channels/189511567539306508/390924397726138370

[spiral idol]

oh facepalm i mean yeah probably! Thank you!

[hollow yarrow]

is anyone else having issues where physbones on quest arent working???

[arctic dirge]

no

[desert carbon]

ok so ik im supposed to ask in creator companion channel but i got ego where can i make a ticket for vcc support bcs its stupid how my vcc aint working

[arctic dirge]

#creator-companion

[desert carbon]

NVM

i didnt get egoed today

[hollow basin]

hmm.. I do have an old asset I have on my avatar, it is a cool rc plane, but if VRCFury touches it, it breaks.. I do have VRCFury for gogoloco on my avatar.. how do I keep it from touching that asset?

[arctic dirge]

why would VRCFury "touch" it?

[hollow basin]

ok so it does something with animations and references for some reason with certain settings

idk

havent dealt with this issue before

[arctic dirge]

how vague 🙂

[hollow basin]

where do I find VRCFury settings

if it has any?

[arctic dirge]

those are per-component I think?

[hollow basin]

ok found them

[arctic dirge]

(there is a vrcfury discord)

[lilac wharf]

If the avatar is over 8 components and 64 transforms all physbones are disabled. If it's over 64 collision checks, all physbone colliders are disabled.

[lilac wharf]

So I was going to call out haters but I guess one already self-identifies.

[young gazelle]

eomeone beat it to me LOL

[valid tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-memes-pregnant-gif-26528786

help me

[nova vessel]

Thanks, I appreciate it - I'll be sure to check it out as soon as it's up!

[nova vessel]

Well, regardless thanks to both of you.

[young gazelle]

yw ^_^

[calm inlet]

Dude. No one has to make or purely wear quest compatible avatars. And star has been making avatars for years she knows the restrictions and limits. She was just asking if anyone else was having problems with uploading the current quests avis due to the whole vrchat spike. Don't get petty with people you don't even know man. No one has to settle to your wants nor beliefs

Coming from a questie

[lilac wharf]

was talking about "Hate", star in the screenshot by coincidence.

thought it was a funny name for the time and place...

[lavish monolith]

VRCQuestTools is not going to turn an Extremely Poor avatar into a Quest Compatible avatar. I don't wear Quest compatible avatars because I like building avatars with fun additional features, the Quest can't display those features and I didn't buy a non-Quest headset to limit myself to Quest limitations

[arctic dirge]

Nothin' wrong with Hate, they've been in #avatar-help a while, and ask reasonable questions

[lavish monolith]

you literally said "was gonna call out the haters", implying you were calling out both of them. only fair that people take your words at face value.

[lilac wharf]

it does that all the time? but yeah some content can't be converted by a tool, and needs human eyes/work.

[lavish monolith]

pretty much anything shader-specific can't be converted.

anything sound related can't be converted.

at least not on avatars

[lilac wharf]

fair, ok calling out haters now: Quest convert your stuff. Use a tool, even if the quest stuff looks worse/is missing features. Let quest users perceive you. pls. You have a computer, you have unity knoledge, quest converting is not far out from just optimising your PC avi (which you should also be doing anyways).

[lavish monolith]

I don't spend days of my life building avatars with features that Quest literally can't implement just to gut them out

there are fallbacks and imposters

[lilac wharf]

so quest users arn't good enough to see something presentable because of this?

some people literally won't click 3 buttons.

[lavish monolith]

stop treating VRCQuestTools like a one-size-fits-all solution. It's never that simple.

[lilac wharf]

but some avis are more complicated yeah. But I think its a fun puzzle to make something really cool and interesting/fun while working within the constraints and confines of quest limitations. you have to invent the wheel with their tools.

[lavish monolith]

especially for people who drastically alter the avatar bases they've bought

[lilac wharf]

quest tools does not rely on your avatar being close to base..

[clever dove]

compromising for android is never one size fits all because one of my avatars that relies on panospheres looks. . . . . like a playstation 2 MMORPG character on quest

[lavish monolith]

and that's where we're fundamentally at odds. I like avatars with lots of features to fit the characters I build around them. Mages with magic systems, androids with UI HUDS and "hacking" visuals, a vault dweller with a fully functional pipboy display.

mind you I never figured out how to QUITE get that last one working lol

[lilac wharf]

you can do that on quest...

[clever dove]

no

[lavish monolith]

you misunderstood what they're saying

they're not going for PS2 appearance

[clever dove]

if i did i would get banned for sdk modification aha

this effect relies on a shader that supports panospheres

[clever dove]

woooo.

[lilac wharf]

you dont need to hack on quest to do this

[strange gust]

I've been enjoying doing nothing but leaving reactions but

risk breaking a lot of things with a tool for a set of players that is insignificant to me because most (>90%) of players I interact with at-length are on PC
even assuming ideal circumstances, these players will never appreciate or realize the effort I put into making it compatible for them at best, and complain arbitrarily about something else at worst (observed pattern)
making something quest-compatible usually makes it look way shittier for quest people than I would be comfortable with
I don't think it's worth it for anything other than basic outfits
yes I am effectively saying It Is Not My Problem

[lavish monolith]

Quest is extremely limited on shader options. if something is reliant on shaders Quest doesn't support, there's literally no way to reproduce it unless someone specifically scripts a new shader that is approved for Quest.

[lavish monolith]

thank you, that sums up everything.

[clever dove]

i optimize my content for android for the sole reason that the meetups i host are android friendly. if it werent, i would not spend the hours i do painstakingly optimizing my content to quest Medium rank

i would know, i dont upload very poor content to android :p

[lilac wharf]

you can use other methods than just lazily relying on just a shader to do all the work. Where are your creative minds?

[strange gust]

quest medium is so strict there's not even a point in chasing it unless you upload a gamerip of a PS2/1 model in place of your avatar

standalone headsets still can't handle fade transparency

[clever dove]

lazily

[lavish monolith]

ok then explain how to do the exact effect of what plushie is wanting in Quest. Saying "it's possible" is one thing but unless you can back it up, you don't know.

[clever dove]

there is simply no panosphere rendering shader that you can upload to quest

[lilac wharf]

ok quest medium is diabolical, I understand not wanting to try. But Quest Very Poor is nothing like PC very poor. on PC, there is room to be ridiculous and lag way too many people. On quest, the content is so restrictive that you already have an optimized avatar with Very Poor on quest.

[strange gust]

PC or is literally always on quest

[clever dove]

nothing i can reply to this message with wouldnt be ad hominem

[lavish monolith]

Quest is so restrictive I literally can't wear clothing on my fursona, and I'm not gonna run around pseudo-nude.

[strange gust]

needing to resort to SDK hacks and Undefined Behavior to adequately port VFX without a shader
this is why quest compatibilty is a meme

[clever dove]

such is the reason they made impostors and custom fallbacks!

[strange gust]

hence

[lavish monolith]

congrats, you just doubled the triangle count. hope they had plenty to spare

[lilac wharf]

you did not double the triangle count...

[clever dove]

hacky workarounds that will break when they release more security fixes !

[lilac wharf]

these arn't hacky workarounds, its called using what you have and having some creativitiy with the tools you've been given

[arctic dirge]

yeah I don't like this method either.

[clever dove]

i dont think theres anything new to say

[strange gust]

dude this isn't fucking 2005 anymore nobody wants to do this kind of stupid shit to make something work for people that won't care or will shit on you anyway while making your art look worse in the process

it's not that people "aren't creative enough" it's just that nobody feels like doing it because it's not worth it

[lavish monolith]

I may be incorrect in the triangle count, but that IS a hacky workaround. you needed 7 images to explain it.

[lilac wharf]

because its a scroll down post made for beginners in unity?

I literally drew the big red arrows

imposters make your art look worse. alot worse than a quest port.

[clever dove]

cool panosphere dress though on pc ehe . the backface is the same texture offset verically by just a bit so that the orange part of the image used is shown instead

[strange gust]

I would genuinely rather have an approximation of the real thing rather than a de-rezzed flatly-shaded idea of what I made because it's one button vs. whatever the fuck this is

storing two copies of my outfits, base, etc with no normals intentionally to trick the matcap rendering math into making a faux parallax effect

[lavish monolith]

but I didn't have to work to make my avatar look terrible-but-approved-for-quest

again, my main avatar would require I run around without clothing.

[lilac wharf]

but like, you say that you mostly talk to pc people only. maybe quest users don't feel welcome to talk to you? maybe because you are excluding them from the experience?

[lavish monolith]

I've never had issues with quest users when I've been around them

[clever dove]

its just that the entire aesthetic i was going for is . sacrificed for ps2 fantasty game if i dont work around

[lilac wharf]

I doubt this actually, unless your body base is a 10mb compressed monster with 1m polys

[strange gust]

au contraire? this is borderline platform racism but every quest person I've talked to made me feel like an idiot for even trying to include them or be nice to them

[lavish monolith]

good performance on PC is literally only 70k poly

I just BARELY have a good performance version of my main avatar

[lilac wharf]

so it should be easier to quest convert, if its already good on PC. Struggling to quest convert because you don't have the methods and tools is not really a good argument when the methods and tools are out there, on the internet

[arctic dirge]

70k's not bad. the quest limits are hard to achieve

[lavish monolith]

and my fur pattern as a result is blurry up close, meaning I have to see it every time I look down at my avatar's hands

[lilac wharf]

and in this server. so many people will help you for free

[strange gust]

yet again the point is that it's not impossible

dissolving
altering design to allow simpler geometry
shader tricks
mesh data tricks
transparency cutouts
it's just
not worth the effort to most people
too destructive to the original vision

[lavish monolith]

it was never an issue of methods and tools. I literally make avatars from scratch. it's the limitations themselves destroying the aesthetic

[strange gust]

it's like trying to backport a modern AAA game to a PS2

[arctic dirge]

not having 27 different outfits

[strange gust]

(though something's probably deeply wrong with you if you have more than like 3 on one avatar )

90% /s

[arctic dirge]

yeah I'll agree with that one

[clever dove]

one outfit per prefab!

[lavish monolith]

my first avatar had literally 20 outfits... it's long since been broken and abandoned lmao I don't know what I was thinking

[clever dove]

or well, its okay to have a few if its only a few thousand more polys and another megabyte or four of texture memory aha

[lilac wharf]

so let me help you with this. Lets get this looking closer to your PC counterpart.

[arctic dirge]

yeah if you fit 20 outfits in 70k polys without a stupid amount of material slots, I'll be impressed.

[clever dove]

i dont need help im experienced enough with quest content limitations already aha

i refuse to upload very poor content if the whole purpose of making an android version is for being in optimized lobbies, which doing a trick like this would easily thrust me into :p

[lavish monolith]

oh no, it's so far into Extremely Poor that I LITERALLY can't load the avatar anymore. Not since they implemented the max filesize

[arctic dirge]

yeah I only do Very Poors for test/fun avatars, which I'll only wear in specific situations

[arctic dirge]

Then I'm glad the limitations have prevented this

[clever dove]

just keep your 24 lights to your private world okay ;'

[arctic dirge]

haha

[lilac wharf]

Poor on Quest is hella optimised. Very Poor is optimized on quest. Don't let the names trick you.

[clever dove]

its not

[lavish monolith]

yeah even if I DID use that avatar anymore, I would have split it into multiple avatars a long time ago lol at least 10 versions to separate the outfits

[strange gust]

quest people freezing in front of me because they looked at my model
yeah no

[clever dove]

you are consuming far too much vram even at medium rank for their 40 player target

[lavish monolith]

I think they meant the Quest versions of those ranks

[clever dove]

aware

[lavish monolith]

that was more towards Hate

[arctic dirge]

I fail to see the problem here.

I mean, it's a mobile phone

[clever dove]

with 6gb of shared ram mind you

[lavish monolith]

and that's why I'll never try. I can barely get my avatars to Good performance. getting to Excellent will utterly destroy them.

[clever dove]

my heart hurts loading into a large world with my quest friends ,,

[lilac wharf]

the quest version can be optimized. Its also going to say Very Poor. Just keep within the 10mb compressed 40mb uncompressed (a hard limit btw) and it will be balanced

[strange gust]

-# >one week-old unity instance would max out a quest's memory

[elder sky]

hey i was wondering how to make custom animations (a dance specifically)
do i make the animations in blender or something? ive tried animating the dance from the avatar's root and adding the animation as a toggle (with vrcfury) but the toggle just wont do anything so uhhhhhh

[lilac wharf]

this is the problem. people are afraid of Very Poor, even though it can be optomised on quest. So they skip the quest version all together.

just upload very poor to quest.

[clever dove]

i will say that making fallbacks is fun to me ehe.

[arctic dirge]

eh, I just assume the impostor is good enough

[lavish monolith]

I'm not afraid of it. getting it to work AT ALL with Quest will destroy the entire aesthetic of the avatar. I have said this multiple times

[lilac wharf]

and I can't believe you, unless your aesthetic is like, 25 outfits and nuclear bombs

[arctic dirge]

Then don't upload a quest version.

[clever dove]

actually my main issue is that my content is hidden by default on quest if its not medium rank but i dont even want to get started with that point

[lavish monolith]

you are greatly overestimating what is possible on Quest

[strange gust]

people that have you hidden by performance rank
that's a really good one

[clever dove]

this is the part where you hang out with only your friends

[lilac wharf]

no one on quest has people shown by default, unless they crash alot.

quest users manual show regardless of performance rank

[lavish monolith]

someone pull up the Quest limitations please?

[strange gust]

this is considering both platforms

[clever dove]

sometimes i just kind of wish i could pull up vrchat analytics myself and see if my argument holds up

[lavish monolith]

I will compare them to my current main avatar, which has exactly ONE outfit

[arctic dirge]

seen 'em. why?

[lilac wharf]

so your PC version can be good, medium, whatever. and your Quest avatar can be Very Poor. On pc, you will be unaffected.

[strange gust]

I will but someone here prefers to upload strictly sub- grade models

[lilac wharf]

drop the stats

I will quest convert with my eyes

[clever dove]

oh hey the servers are back up

[lilac wharf]

this is why I can't get the blue name, I be to opinionated about quest inclusion.

[strange gust]

-# until the furries have another event, yeah

75% /j

[clever dove]

if that was just one furality world 😵‍💫

cronch

[lilac wharf]

Furality didn't crash vrc servers...... but lets not get into that too

[strange gust]

_

[lavish monolith]

uses Poiyomi and no, I'm not changing shaders because my fur pattern is set up a specific way so that it looks the way it does. It claims I can use the avatar as a custom fallback, but considering it'll also tell me an avatar is Good Performance but then in-game says otherwise, I don't trust the alerts in the SDK builder to be accurate in the first place

[lilac wharf]

so you won't use an alternative method to get the fur acceptable? thats it?? this is the avatar that can't be quest converted????

[lavish monolith]

the avatar's texture is blurry enough as-is

[lilac wharf]

people just refuse to think outside the box and seek alternative methods to create what they want. Alot of 'PC only' content could be done on quest, but people won't apply themselves and find out.

[lilac wharf]

what is poi doing. Is it a fur shader?

[lavish monolith]

no

multiple emission layers, matcaps and normal maps layered over each other to give the different parts of the avatar the correct look and feel

[lilac wharf]

and none of these can be combined??

matcaps yeah you kind of get stuck there, but emission masks/textures and normals can be combined

[arctic dirge]

really you just have to accept that you can't do most of these special effects on mobile.

[lavish monolith]

no, some normal maps and emission masks need to be higher resolution than the main texture or they look like blurry smudges

[lilac wharf]

but you can tho thats the thing and I'll tell them how, and people will call it stupid tricks or hacking.

or they say they know what they are doing and won't accept help at all

[lavish monolith]

you can't claim that

[lilac wharf]

so many 'PC only' effects are quest compatible with a little bit of creativity

some things, audio, lights, absolutely cannot work on quest. But these are small gimmick items that shouldn't define your avatar

[arctic dirge]

But you can't, you can work around limitations and work within the limits, but the limits are the limits. I am assuming that what you are talking about is the working with/around limits, but the limits are still there.

[lavish monolith]

this part of my avatar's body is supposed to be a metal 'skin' overlaid but barely looks like it sticks out as is

give me a second to pull up the main project and I'll show what it's SUPPOSED to look like

[lilac wharf]

but they are so much smaller than what people think. thats what I mean

[arctic dirge]

okay so yes, we agree

[lilac wharf]

people see a shader parallax and say, "well no custom shaders on quest, so no quest parallax." and yet Quest can have parallax. And so much more.

[lavish monolith]

audio source on an avatar. if I remember correctly, that's something PC can do that Quest just outright cannot do no matter what you do

[lilac wharf]

yes I find you very agreeable and rational

[lilac wharf]

this one #avatar-general message

but yes, some things cannot be worked around

[arctic dirge]

I try to be!

[arctic dirge]

correct

[lilac wharf]

this is why you get the blue name

[lavish monolith]

I mean, it's not really "helpful" to berate people who don't want to suffer just so Quest users can see an avatar they'll never appreciate.

[lilac wharf]

I will always appreciate it

[arctic dirge]

is it? okay 🙂

[lavish monolith]

this is what that's supposed to look like. sure, the shape is there, but you can clearly tell here that it's applied to the surface of the skin, not melded to it

[lilac wharf]

And I will appreciate you for seeking creative methods for making something work on quest, or just asking for help

[lilac wharf]

the quest one is just a little lower res. I don't think this compromises your avatar

[lavish monolith]

it does to me because I know how it's SUPPOSED to look, and it bothers me when I see it looking wrong. also that's not a quest version, that's Good Performance PC

[lilac wharf]

you can do a specular map with plain red applied to the base texture, or a matcap map, or a detail layer.

the good thing about quest avatars is that you don't actually have to see them

[lavish monolith]

that won't change anything because it's an Atlased texture

it still requires the layers from Poiyomi to not look even blurrier than it already looks

[lilac wharf]

you can use more than one texture and material on quest..

[lavish monolith]

it's already 63mb before upload as-is

for texture memory

[lilac wharf]

yes, having one big texture does not reduce texture memory more than seperate textures automatically.

because some things can be a 3x3 pixel, and others can be 512 or 1024. and you can easily get within the 40mb uncompressed

atlasing makes all the textures the same resolution (unless you do it special) so you have less control on the balance of quality.

You can still atlas, but make some less important parts of the texture smaller and more imporant parts bigger.

[arctic dirge]

you don't have to atlas

[lilac wharf]

the easier solution is to just keep separate textures, and you get easy control of the resolution through unity

[arctic dirge]

I bake lots of stuff down to a few textures, never atlas anything.

[hollow basin]

ok finally was able to test whether it was VRCFury or not. it wasnt that...
Something with building the avatar broke it..
yes its vague.. it is because i have no idea why its doing this

[lavish monolith]

these are the stats after upload

[lilac wharf]

this is workable

extramly workable

[lavish monolith]

I'm not reducing the quality any further

[arctic dirge]

kinda a lot of texture memory to try to make work on quest

[toxic isle]

what sort of affect does audiolink have on performance?

[lilac wharf]

i could do it. But I'd unatlas the textures probably.

[arctic dirge]

minimal really

a little bit of compute in the shader

[lilac wharf]

so they should make a quest audio link shader

[arctic dirge]

one extra texture sampled

hmm I wonder if they've actually profiled that.

[lilac wharf]

come with me Kazin, lets go vote on the quest audio link canny

(i have to find it)

[arctic dirge]

I mean, sure, but I honestly don't care.

[lavish monolith]

if the textures weren't atlased it'd need 9 materials

[arctic dirge]

yeah I'd probably bake those down to fewer than that.

[lavish monolith]

actually no, 10 because of the glasses lenses being transparent

[lilac wharf]

thats fine on quest tho

[arctic dirge]

I guess you could atlas, but I dislike that method.

[lavish monolith]

uh what? quest only gets 4 material slots

Good PC Performance only gets 8

[lilac wharf]

there is no quest material slot limit

[weak marlin]

Anyone got any questions biker avatars

[arctic dirge]

#1138520828556890214

[lilac wharf]

the performance ranks Poor and up for quest are too strict, and they don't show Very Poor limits. They hide them to trick you into thinking you can't do things you can. The goal is to encourage people to be optomised, the result is people give up on quest all together.

[lavish monolith]

dunno, this makes it sound like there's literally no point. if I aim for Very Poor, it's still not going to be seen unless someone SPECIFICALLY shows me.

[lilac wharf]

on quest, no one is seem unless you show them

its how you play the game

[lavish monolith]

then there IS no point in destroying my avatars' appearances for the sake of Quest users

[lilac wharf]

the vrcwebsite is misleading to try to encourage optimization. Again, it only really results in people giving up

[lilac wharf]

it wont destroy its appearance. you know what does that? imposters.

[lavish monolith]

yes it will

[lilac wharf]

you thought quest only had 4 mat slots. I think we can take your avatar a bit futher than what you are imagining.

you just have to not be afriad of 'Very Poor' on quest. the performace rank system is really meaningless on Quest because all content either is Very Poor, fallback quality/features, or looks bad. There are exceptions for sure. but for most use cases, you have to be willing to meet the quest limits at the door they won't let you pass through, not just the line of tape on the floor.

[lavish monolith]

let me reword this to show why there's no point. I make my avatars for me. not strangers. I'm already unhappy with how limited my Good PC versions are but it's a sacrifice I made to be myself at large meetups that limit to Good PC rank

It's not fear. It's straight up futility

[lilac wharf]

i guess if you only make avatars for yourself, you can just upload test uploads. why bother uploading them private when others can see them?

[toxic isle]

if you dont want to convert to quest then don't? I'm so confused about what this is all about haha

[lavish monolith]

and just like that you killed any interest in continuing to try to explain because this is the most meaningless argument I've ever heard.

[toxic isle]

your quest version is completely different to your original version, you wouldn't be "destroying" the apearance of your pc avatar, quest users will just see a similar, maybe more optimised version

[lilac wharf]

we have been arguing about including quest users, and how refusing to quest convert for stupid reasons is exclusionary.

[lavish monolith]

"because I don't care to jump through the required hoops" is not a stupid reason. it's MY time and MY avatar.

[arctic dirge]

you go to meetups that limit to Good ranking? huh.

[lilac wharf]

but the hoops are so low to the ground. and you are already commiting time and effort for the PC version. its like just take 3 more steps to include the rest of the platform.

or don't

[lavish monolith]

no, it's not 3 more steps. stop claiming it's 3 more steps. that is misinformation.

[lilac wharf]

it was a metaphor... like walking

[toxic isle]

I mean it basically is, duplicate the project, convert materials over and remove some bones and usually it's good to go, you might have to remove some accessories but it is pretty easy

[lavish monolith]

except it's not. read previous chat if you want proof.

[toxic isle]

I've made hundreds of avatars haha, I know how quest conversion works

[lavish monolith]

good for you. I've also made hundreds of avatars. I've never bothered and never will, because it's too much of a hassle to convert my avatars

[lilac wharf]

you're my friend now. we are having soft tacos later!

[arctic dirge]

ooh tacos

[lavish monolith]

it's not exclusion to only wear PC avatars. I'm still there talking to the Quest users that approach me.

[lilac wharf]

I told you how you could do your avatar, you just don't wanna? like you said quest only gets 4 mat slots, and you have to atlas textures? like you are just putting more restrictions on yourself that makes the process harder.

[lilac wharf]

but they can't see you. They see a blob of pixels.

[lavish monolith]

the textures are already atlased

[lilac wharf]

and you deleted all the source textures?

and the base model?

[lavish monolith]

so you expect me to go through the mesh editing process a second time?

[lilac wharf]

your reasoning like, you only do avatars for you. So its not self expression? like others don't need to see it? It's not a representation of you in the digital world? thats where my test upload comment came from. If quest users just don't need to see your avatar because its only for you, why do pc users need to see it either?

[lilac wharf]

just use the pre-edit one

[toxic isle]

not to get too philosophical but you put all this time and effort into creating a way to be perceived, to show off your own form of self expression, the amount of effort that takes indicates some sort of vanity towards how you're perceived so why would you want to hinder that? personally I'm really proud of what I make and I make it to represent myself and how I want to be perceived so I want everyone to be able to see it, it only takes a few minutes to be accommodating

[lavish monolith]

screw it. now I'm just getting ganged up on by people not listening

[lilac wharf]

yeah this is my point really.

[lilac wharf]

me earlier:

[toxic isle]

you're arguing a point to not continue creating in a chat meant to support creation, I'm not sure what you're expecting

[lavish monolith]

no I wasn't

[toxic isle]

not many people are going to agree with you

[lavish monolith]

I was arguing why I shouldn't be pressured to make Quest compatible versions of my avatars

[toxic isle]

you can just say you don't want to and move on but you can't let it go for some reason but honestly this is really entertaining so idm

[lilac wharf]

earlier everyone was on my ass about how awful I was for asking people to be inclusive.

[lavish monolith]

yeah that's it. I'm done. goodbye

not going to deal with this bullshit

[lilac wharf]

so basically I just made a comment to someone that maybe they should quest convert regardless if their friend ends up getting that quest 2/3 or not, because its a good thing to do, and I got the x emojis on it. and one of the people who did that was called "Hate", and I just thought that was a funny thing, a person named "hate" hating, right? well I was wrong

it was so unfunny we had to argue about it for a long time

not just stygian tho, it was a bunch of ppl

[toxic isle]

idk, the way I see it, idc if people wanna quest convert but if you're putting effort into making an avatar, esp if you're starting in blender, why not take the extra step?

[lilac wharf]

thats my whole point

[toxic isle]

avatar creation is a form of vanity, just embrase that. We all wanted to be perceived so badly we picked up this brain rotting hobby so just go all out

[arctic dirge]

it's not worth my time for the minimal interaction I have with mobile users. Perhaps it is for you.

[lilac wharf]

come here, you get a big hug 🫂

[toxic isle]

I respect that, I don't really play vrchat itself anymore, I just go on for a few drinks like once a month so I run into lots of quest users. I more just like making avatars for fun :)

[lavish monolith]

Kazin mind if I dm you something?

[arctic dirge]

feel free. note that I don't do private help for free.

[lilac wharf]

emi so the arguments were basically: its too hard (people were reaching for Quest medium making it harder than it actually is, also they put so much effort into pc), it would ruin the avatar (people didn't know how to make specific features quest, and didn't want me to help them), and "I dont meet quest users often" (maybe they don't want to talk to people excluding them?).

and I argued all three points at the same time with multiple people typing.

[lavish monolith]

eh nevermind wasn't really that important

[arctic dirge]

sure. happy to listen either way.

[toxic isle]

honestly people on this game get mad about literally everything, I just engage for fun sometimes, it's not worth the mental effort

[arctic dirge]

it's really not

[toxic isle]

I've been called all sorts for just going to 18+ worlds (I'm 22 and literally only go to smashed and drinking nights)

like 18+ worlds are there to keep people safe T-T why am I being called a degen for not wanting to drink with children

people get mad about everything

[glacial pine]

facts

[lilac wharf]

I understand when someone has a different opinion, but only if they actually understand the facts. it might be the autism, but when we disagree on the facts rather than just the taste/preference, it irks me soo bad because I could just inform you and then your opinion might be different. This surprisingly doesn't work like, at all and I end up arguing about factual info I can prove. and also I assume everyone is acting in good faith and wants to be aligned in fact/would appreciate having their views challenged so we all together can reach a conclusion closer to the truth.

this is a big flaw of mine but I cannot change it because of who I am.

[toxic isle]

I get that but its mostly wasted energy, I'm autistic too and I know it can get frustrating, we're in an age of anti-intellectualism and all round chaos, everyones angry and looking for an argument, save your peace and just live your life :) thats the best advice I can give

and if you're arguing at least have fun doing it otherwise it's almost always a waste of time

[lilac wharf]

I definitely can sometimes identify bad faith arguments, like with racism and stuff like that, but like for other stuff, it's just like I want everyone to have good stuff. I want users to know they can have cool things on quest, and I want quest users to be included and not just see a bunch of pixel piles with no facials, visemes, hand gestures, or toggles.

[lilac wharf]

and any argument in a public-ish forum usually isn't a waste of time. For every person who disagrees with you or doesn't see your point thats actually participating, there is like maybe 3 others on the fence just watching, soaking in information and arguments to increase their knowledge on the subject. And they can form their own opinions. And then everyone can have more factual base knowledge and formulate opinions more aligned in truth. thats the dream anyways. doesn't always work out hehe

[shut agate]

Does anyone know a good shader that mostly just affects the world, I want to be able to make the world glow like its being super heated, and I want it to go from top down

[arctic dirge]

You'd probably need to do that with a screenspace shader

[solemn latch]

i dont know what i did but my legs are sliding around like this and nowhere i look is giving me answers about why. its like my idle/ik animations just dont exist anymore. im not using any tracking, only happens on my personal model - wickerbeast by Jin A.

does someone know whats causing this, its driving me up a wall.

i have not changed any animations from the default wickerbeast. all i added was gogoloco.

[arctic dirge]

Rule 10, yo

[shut agate]

I know, but I don't know what screen space shader can help me do that

[arctic dirge]

You may have to make it

[shut agate]

Welp, I guess it's time to struggle working on the shader graph

[solemn latch]

fixed

"Use AUto-Footsteps for 3 and 4 point tracking" under Lower Body under the Avatar Descriptor was the solution.

[hidden halo]

Any suggestions on a free, decent 3D model painter?

[empty dagger]

you could try cancerspace. It has a lot of features iirc

[shut agate]

I have looked at it, but I don't think it can do what I want

[lilac wharf]

theres substance painter, but its adobe so you have to pay subscription usually. Sometimes if you are in college or school your school account might have adobe products like a bundled with the enterprise account bundle and such.

[hidden halo]

Yeah, I saw substance painter. It does require a subscription. That’s what I’m aiming to avoid for now 😅

[cinder magnet]

What's the new color mask thing?(for toon standard)

[fallow matrix]

basically you can mark up to 4 areas on the texture that you can change the colors of separately
and it seems to be full-on colors instead of just hue-shifting
if you've ever tried the Simple Fox avatar then it's like that, but less hacky and with twice the sliders

[sand venture]

Just buy the perpetual license on steam

Only thing is you wont get the new yearly versions

I should probably upgrade mine is like 5 years old lmao

[knotty blade]

👀

I surely didn't partake in any illegal practices

[magic light]

i wanna do toggleable outfits and clothes for my avatar but i think im losing the energy already

[rotund jungle]

Yo chat help does anyone know some top ppl in vr.. That's willing to help me

Like a mod ?

There is. I ticket thing so I'm just askin here

[arctic dirge]

ucuPaint plugin for Blender. ArmorPaint if you build it from source and are ok with it being a bit beta and crashy still

[arctic dirge]

The way to do this is submitting a ticket at help.vrchat.com

[rotund jungle]

Okie thx

[still sparrow]

is there something going on with vrchat models and how its handling colour swap radials? because my models had smooth transitions, including models i have bought and not made. and now the hue shifts are choppy when someone else is watching you change them. its a smooth transition on the wearers side, but not for the viewer. and this wasnt happening before

[hidden halo]

The thing that’s $100? Haha I’ll pass.

[sand venture]

200

[hidden halo]

💀

[arctic dirge]

it's what I do, 'cause it's the only way to get the Linux version

[lilac wharf]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-30/p/add-quest-audiolink-support-to-toon-standard-or-new-compatible-shader I found it

[arctic dirge]

sure, why not

[warm pond]

yall think it would ruin the look of this guy to take his legs? ive been trying to rig him but the legs just dont work

[pastel ermine]

Is it possible to watch a parameter, then trigger something if that parameter changes its value?

[merry swan]

parameter not equal > do stuff

[pastel ermine]

Hmm but like say it's supposed to go from a 1 to a 3, if it suddenly goes to a 2 something else happens

[arctic dirge]

parameter = 1, do thing a. parameter = 2, do thing b. etc.

this is what the animation controller does

[pastel ermine]

Hmmm

Trying to create a lil mock of a commodore of my avatar for furality and if I accidentally change carts in the menu without turning it off it glitches it and I have to turn it off and on

That's what I'm trying to do

[arctic dirge]

Hahah that's great

I used to have a C64

[pastel ermine]

Ye

[merry swan]

made something like it years ago , contacts and restraints, now it can slide in / out and trigger stuff , just i cant remember if i deleted it or not had lost patrol and some other wich would trigger their music and audio

c64/amiga/atari stuff ive used

found the images ive used but boi its old

[pastel ermine]

Oh neat

[knotty blade]

I would buy substance painter legitimately but the fact that every update requires a repurchase pushes me away

[arctic dirge]

Yeah unless you do the monthly thing, you only buy a single version. I just used the last one I bought for about 3 years.

[sand venture]

I think the perpetual every year is also alot cheaper to get compared to monthly

[arctic dirge]

It is!

[sand venture]

About 16 a month for perpetual

Pretty neat

[arctic dirge]

And if you do like I seem to be doing and buy it every 3 years....

[sand venture]

Fr I've had mine for 5 years

Id love to upgrade bc they have the new like point based pen tool like illustrator

Have controllable lines or whatever you call it

[arctic dirge]

Yeah, I did recently after I started having issues with more recent nvidia drivers, kept having the viewport crash a bit. My friend upgraded hers and it solved the issue, so I gave in, and yup, solved mine too. (Linux)

[sand venture]

Gladly ive never had issues with mine, but im on windows lmao

Recently bought the perpetual for 3dcoat textura, seems way more fun to do handpainting in that compared to substance

In substance you gotta do all types of bs just to get gradients compared to 3dcoat

[arctic dirge]

mm that's true

[tough epoch]

[woeful ruin]

owo

what's this

[violet thicket]

bruh

[open fog]

OwO indeed

[cold shoal]

oh

[graceful nest]

owo

[valid shadow]

owo

[open fog]

So we gettin' Avatar 3.0 real soon?

[grizzled solar]

uwu senpai

[graceful nest]

#avatar-development-links

tbh

[muted gazelle]

👀

[near hill]

[boreal oriole]

[valid shadow]

Wonder who the first to misuse the help or showoff channel will be

[shy rose]

I've been waiting for this!

[graceful nest]

people posting owo

[sturdy smelt]

so ready

[open fog]

I mean this channel has already been misused

[tough epoch]

@amber bobcat

[near hill]

@floral tusk

[amber bobcat]

hmm

[tough epoch]

@rapid notch

[amber bobcat]

that was sooner than i thought lul

[tough epoch]

[valid shadow]

[amber bobcat]

and i almost finished unwrapping my quest world...

😄

[muted gazelle]

Beta not yet visible on Steam 👀

[tough epoch]

Once the 🔴 shows up

[sturdy smelt]

just ping him

[muted gazelle]

Oh there it is

[half imp]

Hello Humans

[open fog]

Hi hi Ron

[amber bobcat]

helo, how u taday

[half imp]

Very excited to finally be sharing this with everyone

[tough epoch]

🔴

[half imp]

The team worked extra hard on this. Alpha Testers also did really great stuff and helped a lot

[amber bobcat]

ayyy

well, the sleep is gone for today

makes another coffee

[half imp]

haha

[spark panther]

bun...

[amber bobcat]

same as with udon i suppose

[open fog]

Hi bun bun

[valid shadow]

Very hyped for new characters that I will break my skull over making them

[amber bobcat]

😅

[vale fox]

no fucking way, goddammit now i have to relearn unity shit

i wanted to stay in blender forever learning how to 3d model from scratch but noooo

[amber bobcat]

your gonna be fine

[old forge]

pog ty devs

[vale fox]

also thanks so much omg i have been waiting for this since the stone age

[fallow sequoia]

I had absolutely nothing to do with this don't blame me.

[floral tusk]

POG

[graceful nest]

now I can take things off my avatar without 1000 animators 🙏

[vale fox]

time to make avatars that dont suck ass yes

[floral tusk]

LETS GOO

[half imp]

@fallow sequoia had EVERYTHING to do with it and it's all his fault

[sour dove]

You need to update to usseee

[hexed mica]

bruhhh so you're just gonna blame him? What if people like it he's gonna get the credit :O

[graceful nest]

Pretty exciting stuff

[glad kayak]

The gates have been opened.

[sour dove]

Updatteeee

[woeful ruin]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[half imp]

@hexed mica he deserves a lot of the credit since he's the Avatar dev deity

[oblique ravine]

sick

[finite marsh]

im still confused about what exactly av3 is, imma continue reading

[floral tusk]

LOTS GOOO

LETS*

[unkempt marsh]

fart

[floral tusk]

@woeful ruin

[woeful ruin]

there's a lot to read, sorry about that guys n gals

but uh

its.. complicated

🙂

[graceful nest]

please don't shout, it's 4 am

[woeful ruin]

you wanted all the options?

[glad kayak]

You mean it has a high skill ceiling.

[woeful ruin]

you have them

[sour dove]

@woeful ruin I'll have you know I have the most premium 5 gigs of storage and I can't be wasting it on an update

[neon finch]

👉👈 noice

[mellow abyss]

Hello

[half rover]

Wait so we can do what now with this? Menus?

[graceful nest]

ｃｕｓｔｏｍ ａｎｉｍａｔｏｒｓ

[livid jacinth]

So, what exactly is 3.0 avatars?

[fiery crow]

It is time.

[woeful ruin]

here have a video

[finite marsh]

yeah there is a lotta shit to read, form what i can tell there is a new "action menu" which allows more animations and such

🆗

[neon finch]

owo whats this

[half rover]

So yeah,

[finite marsh]

its a new menu thing

[half rover]

Menu

[woeful ruin]

no, it is not just a menu

[fiery crow]

Time to get to work.

[sour dove]

Now I'll need to read thisss

[neon finch]

Trust me, its super powerfull

[sour dove]

To understand

[woeful ruin]

you have full control over your avatar and full root control to your animator

[sturdy smelt]

its rero time

[sour dove]

Ughhh

[half rover]

Hahahaaaaa, BOYS! Let's start crafting.

[glad kayak]

Chicken is easily the best feature.

[tall sorrel]

Hah I took an entire two minutes to write this message.

[meager mural]

Why is all the avatars showing up as error bots for me?

[woeful ruin]

@meager mural You need to be on the Open Beta.

[finite marsh]

so its more animation stuff? well i guess thats interesting

[neon mortar]

wish i knew more about animation stuff since that seems to be the main focus here

[sour dove]

I'll just wait before I update

[woeful ruin]

Please read #avatar-development-links !

[snow tiger]

I hope they will add a higher number of the avatars you can favorite

[meager mural]

Alright :3

[fallow sequoia]

Avatar 3.0 is 95% Chicken

[finite marsh]

well sweet

[sour dove]

Because

[neon mortar]

oh i like chicken

[clear ibex]

this is a nice surprise to come back to

[half rover]

I like the "AFK" thingy.

[valid shadow]

hack why is your profile picture this seductive

[half rover]

I am really gonna try this now.

[sour dove]

I've already had unity corrupt on me

[gusty coyote]

is it going to be toggleable bc i really dont want to have to go through bouble the menus just to do somehting that took half a second

[floral tusk]

tyvm for everything @fallow sequoia

[sour dove]

@woeful ruin I'll be shipping more chocolate your way, good work love 🤍

[open fog]

@gusty coyote Can just use the older SDK2

[serene tinsel]

this new thing looks amazing

[gusty coyote]

ok cool

[glad kayak]

There is now much to be done.

[wraith sonnet]

non-humanoid avatars? that's pretty neato

[safe junco]

Sounds cool. Excited to check it out. Thanks guys and gals!

[jovial junco]

@gusty coyote Do you want avatars 3.0 or nothing? lmao

[neon mortar]

how soon do you guys predict there will be any good tutorials for this stuff? animation is the part of avatar making i suck the most at

[woven goblet]

this will be fun 😮

[sour inlet]

@gusty coyote It's possible to drive changes from other things than the menus. You can still use the old gestures but you could for example have it detect some visemes you said to trigger something

It's really cool

[neon mortar]

you can do that now?! go go gadget jetpack!

[woeful ruin]

BTW, if you see someone with a name that's orange like Kung's up there, that means they're an "Avatars 3.0 Mentor", and know a good bit about the system already 🙂

[thorny dragon]

this is gonna be awesome 👀

[chrome kernel]

I haven't followed this very much? What does this give avatar creation? Is there any sort of Udon functionality or no?

[vapid cove]

😮

[neon mortar]

whenever i start this stuff im def gonna need you dude

[thorny dragon]

question, is this basically just converting the emote system into a radial menu or is there new stuff to it?

[gusty coyote]

tbh im not really worried for myself im more worried ab the new players and people that arent into avatar creation. to me its cool to have those features but less expirienced players might just think its a hassle. BUT that said knmowing that it wont overhaul all avatars is good

[sour dove]

I bet Tupper wouldn't send me a friend request and that I won't respond with an accept and a picture of chocolate

[sour inlet]

@thorny dragon way more than that, it's basically giving you as much control as possible over making your own unity animator controller and syncing that with other users

[little matrix]

👀

[sour inlet]

You set up parameters (like variables) and have them do stuff in the animator controller and those parameters are synced to everyone

[thorny dragon]

oooh

[chrome kernel]

oh shit

[neon mortar]

lol i dont even know what that is, so for the moment everything that im doing now still works right?

[finite marsh]

from what i can tell from reading so far, it allows more avatar control and such

[woeful ruin]

i have added

a new emoji

[thorny dragon]

can you make it so it actually lets you move while an animation is running (for stuff like props, I understand that inventory generators exist but I'm curious if it's a built in thing now)

[glad kayak]

[tough epoch]

[neon mortar]

[thorny dragon]

[sour inlet]

You can control the parameters via the hand held menus of which there are a ton of options for how to set up the sub menus, but you can also control them via anything else running in an animator controller. Basically, any state you can have in an animator controller can cause a parameter to be synced to everyone and have something happen

[stiff tangle]

are there other changes on this beta and if so patch notes for those?

[near hill]

[rain eagle]

I just hope to all that is good in the world that this doesn't break existing avatars again

[glad kayak]

What input prompts the hand menus?

[finite marsh]

yea i dont wanna have to change shit on my current avatar so

[neon mortar]

^ i hope so to, i feel thats why this is just a beta for the moment

[sinful wind]

Same, don't want to have to overhaul my avatars

[finite marsh]

plus will this even work on the vive? it doesnt have a joystick

[sour inlet]

@thorny dragon you can now choose whether an animation disables locomotion or not

[woeful ruin]

Yep, you long-press the Menu button.

[thorny dragon]

awesome

[magic sleet]

Will this change the method of having a skinned mesh for every inventory item?

[woeful ruin]

@rain eagle We've been testing old avatars with this system the whole time, things are a little different but mostly identical. Won't break how they work.

[thorny dragon]

also I just realized the question I asked didn't really, uh, make sense in terms of props

[stiff tangle]

what about enabling/disabling gestures on the index with left thumbstick? is that no longer a thing? :(

[neon mortar]

little?

[woeful ruin]

@magic sleet You should have static meshes for those, not skinned.

[errant zinc]

and what if you dont want to break your index joystick with this

[crystal crag]

@stiff tangle theres a gesture disable in the menu now

[rain eagle]

Oh thank fuck it doesn't bust avatars

[woeful ruin]

@errant zinc Then you remap it!

[icy vortex]

You're probably gonna break your Index joystick anyway LOL

[stiff tangle]

@crystal crag oh ok great

[errant zinc]

everything is taken

[finite marsh]

this update seems... interesting per say

[mellow abyss]

Got in bois!!

[neon mortar]

def, i just wish i knew any of the advanced animation stuff

[urban locust]

What avatar 3.0

[finite marsh]

hopefully the avatar base i use will get updated for 3.0

[visual thunder]

Will avatars with "inventory system" have to remove that now?

[sour inlet]

@visual thunder they'd want to redo it

[finite marsh]

yeah i use inventory systems and i think they are gonna break with this

damn 😔

[stiff tangle]

i highly doubt avatars 2.0 avatars will be broken/affected

[woeful ruin]

They will not! But inventory systems will be obsolete with AV3.

[urban frost]

Is this VR only?

[stuck ingot]

so like you cant lock animations anymore this update sucks

[neon mortar]

damn and i just learned how to use it

[woeful ruin]

@urban frost Nope, works in Desktop!

[urban frost]

Ah nice

[wraith sonnet]

I can't wait to get some non-humanoid avatars working with this new system.

[sour inlet]

@urban frost av3 solves a lot of issues with inventory sync for late joiners etc

[woeful ruin]

@stuck ingot You absolutely can "lock animations" using a toggle control

[chrome kernel]

Wow I need to look into this a bit more

[crystal crag]

yeah most of my old inventory systems still worked when i tested them but with 3.0 you'd be able to make better ones

[sour inlet]

so they'd be way better off using the new stuff

[finite marsh]

well time to go use this when this drops, i hope there is some form of tutorial for this stuff

cuz i use inventory systems and i gotta transfer my shit then

[stuck ingot]

on index controllers you cant lock gestures anymore

[magic sleet]

Say its like a piece of clothing, what does av3 do to replace the that people will make?

[neon mortar]

yeah i need a tutorial for this stuff, is there any out yet?

[stiff tangle]

@stuck ingot are you sure? yama just said its an option in the gestures menu now.

[woeful ruin]

unless someone managed to make one in the last 20 minutes, no, there are no tutorials yet

[wraith sonnet]

Y'know what, I'm gonna make a Doodle avatar.

[woeful ruin]

But... I'm probably gonna make one 🙃

[sturdy smelt]

get to it 🅱️upper

gogo

[sour inlet]

@neon mortar Tupper's writeup is pretty thorough though

[woeful ruin]

shush i have a job i actually get paid for now

[neon mortar]

oof, guess ill wait a week or so, unsure yet if this stuff is for me but i was enjoying working with some inventory system stuff

[sturdy smelt]

wtf you got a job

[neon mortar]

guess ill read that, much prefer video tho

[woeful ruin]

yeah surprisingly vrchat gives me money to work for them, capitalism is weird

[stuck ingot]

no like you so a gesture lock it and it stays on lets say hand gun

[gusty coyote]

bruh

[woeful ruin]

Sure, you could do that @stuck ingot

[sturdy smelt]

its probably some scheme, but we can get into that some other time

[finite marsh]

looking at this it looks super confusing and nightmarish, hopefully there will be a tutorial

😨

[woeful ruin]

@floral tusk i see what you did

[severe glen]

It says there isnt a reason to add more animators onto an avatar, but... can I 🙂

[stiff tangle]

there is a lot that is still unclear yes. will need much exploring and patience.

[drifting needle]

This is very interesting

[inland coral]

How to jump

Brain no work

[half rover]

VRChat just got more interesting.

[sinful burrow]

when is Udon 2

[urban frost]

This update is sick

[scarlet nacelle]

@inland coral try lifting your legs

[neon mortar]

2? the first version aint even done yet

[stiff tangle]

when is avatars 4.0

[thorny dragon]

woah you can toggle locking animations actually? so we can set up inventory systems for props and whatnot with only the SDK?

[near hill]

tomorrow

[sour inlet]

@thorny dragon yeah

[crystal crag]

Yep

[thorny dragon]

that's awesome

[tawdry drift]

The toggling animations is going to be incredibly handy

[stiff tangle]

wait, you can make GESTURES toggle!?

[inland coral]

@scarlet nacelle You are my favourite now, that comments made my week

[thorny dragon]

I'll probably check this out in a moment this is awesome

[marsh haven]

I'm curious regarding stop action being irrelevant and requires a different setup to get touch based systems on avatars now?

[stiff tangle]

if you can make gestures toggle, im going to be super happy!

[sour inlet]

and @thorny dragon not only that, but you can lock in a set of float variables you controlled via joystick to do things like blend face animations or some other people had made body mod sliders etc

[neon finch]

o

[thorny dragon]

actually you can't access this on Quest, It's SteamVR only so nevermind >->
I need to learn to read

but this is amazing either way

I'm excited

[neon finch]

Rip quest

Me orange hi, if you have any questions about 3.0 feel free to ask!

[finite marsh]

what will happen to WMR users who use joysticks for movement?

with remapping stuff

[coral grail]

it's nice the toggle is added in this. it was a nice feature for the index.

[woeful ruin]

This works on WMR without issue, its the same as Index and Oculus

[grizzled solar]

question, does 3.0 uses Udon despite sdk3 being udon? cuz if not i will look into it.

[woeful ruin]

No, it does not use Udon

[marsh haven]

@neon finch was wondering if stop action or touch/movement based animations no longer need scripts but are doable with the new system?

[woeful ruin]

avatars 3.0 is a separate system from Udon

[grizzled solar]

oh?

[grave plume]

will the avatars 3.0 beta eventually roll out to oculus?

[woeful ruin]

potentially

[stiff tangle]

just to be sure im not misunderstanding, does this mean i can use a gesture eg. handgun, and that can enable an animation, and then when i stop doing that gesture i can have it stay on until i do handgun again?

[half rover]

But does the menu work for HTC?

[grizzled solar]

Can 3.0 avatars be placed in sdk2 worlds?

[sour inlet]

@stiff tangle yeah

[verbal maple]

This is a fucken game changer

[half rover]

yes

[digital parcel]

im looking at the documentation, so are objects we toggle getting properly synced for late joiners now? or is that still not possible with this system

[verbal maple]

Literally

[woeful ruin]

@grizzled solar Yes

@digital parcel Yes

[digital parcel]

cool

[stiff tangle]

omg that's going to be great. im real excited now!

[woeful ruin]

assuming you set it up right 😉

with absolute power comes absolute complexity

or something like that

[grizzled solar]

okay alright i'll take a jab at open beta then, hopefully its not tooo different coming from sdk2.

[half rover]

Tupper could you look at my question.

[woeful ruin]

@grizzled solar It is very different!

[grizzled solar]

even the animating system?

[woeful ruin]

The animation system is literally vanilla Unity.

[grizzled solar]

ahh yes

so all of that knowledge can still work for this right?

[woeful ruin]

yep! In fact its basically required 😄

[stiff tangle]

there will be some cross over in knowledge i'd imagine yes, but a lot of new things to pick up

[grizzled solar]

poggers

[severe glen]

I was getting worried checking each of the layers, god BLESS you guys for the FX Layer

[plain estuary]

is there any way to use this alongside normal vrchat from steam?

[woeful ruin]

Learning Avatars 3.0 means you learn how to actually use Unity Animators, instead of saying "you get an animator, YOU get an animator, EVERY GAMEOBJECT GETS AN ANIMATOR" 😛

[grizzled solar]

XD

[sour inlet]

@stiff tangle you have a ton of control really. You could do a gesture that puts you in the "after first handgun" state, that then lets a different thing happen the second time you do it. Or a unique then happen when you do a different gesture, or even when you do the AAAA viseme after the second time you've done the handgun your head explodes or something, kinda sky's the limit because you have pretty much full animator controller control and access to a bunch of custom parameters that sync

[woeful ruin]

@half rover Yes, as noted in #avatar-development-links , hold down the Menu button.

[fallow sequoia]

Why are you guys all typing in here when you could be wearing a Chicken in the Avatar3.0 hub?!

[grizzled solar]

still trying to figure things out on my side

[neon mortar]

lol im already in vrc talking with some friends, so i cant switch to the beta rn

[plain estuary]

trying to see if theres a way to use it without having to switch back and forth by reinstalling each time

[marsh haven]

This sounds insanely complex but this means I can finally turn my full on mini game avatars into fully game avatars xd

[verbal maple]

...wait. I just realized.... you can make series of Naruto hand gestures actually do stuff....

[gusty coyote]

all im getting is error avatar lol

[lime plume]

i am very hype for this but ill probably never be able to do anything with it because i suck at everything avatar related lmao

[stiff tangle]

@sour inlet that's really cool. this is way more than i need for what i wanted to use it for hahah. cant wait to try it out.

[sour inlet]

@verbal maple yeah you could

[vale fulcrum]

Oh that sounds dope

[junior geyser]

BIG

[dim glade]

I'm still wondering if we're able to allow for flying purely from the new system rather than using colliders????

[grizzled solar]

how many gestures we talking here, more than hundreds?

[verbal maple]

Oh my god I can’t wait to get back to my VR

[quartz flume]

this is actually HUGE

[woeful ruin]

...wait. I just realized.... you can make series of Naruto hand gestures actually do stuff....
@verbal maple Yes, you can 🙂

[crystal crag]

Yes you can XD

[verbal maple]

Heck. Yes.

[woeful ruin]

I actually didn't even think of that

[vale fulcrum]

Yes the anazing handsigns

[woeful ruin]

that's uh.. a really cool idea

do it!

[crystal crag]

thats the first thing i thought of tupper XD

[gusty coyote]

ah- not tryin to say anything but uhm. every avatar is an error???

[lost niche]

since I'm on WMR, could I rebind the menu to be clicking the touchpad, and use that to cycle the menu? I need to try that, haha

[marsh haven]

Is there a list of cool stuff people have already made to get some basic grasp to build upon?

[woeful ruin]

You're on the wrong build @gusty coyote , please check #avatar-development-links !

[grizzled solar]

per each gesture is an animation thing right?

[woeful ruin]

@marsh haven yes, visit the world linked in #avatar-development-links !

[sour inlet]

@grizzled solar the gesture detection still uses the same legacy ones but you have kind of back end access to the variable of what gesture is currently detected and then what to do with that

[lime plume]

So uh, if you put your hands by your head like cat ears, you can make your avatar automatically play Caramelldansen?

[grizzled solar]

[sour inlet]

But it's about way more than gestures, if people liked that old style they can make it work in the same or new ways... but there's way more options than gestures now

[gusty coyote]

aight thanks 4 the heads up

[verbal maple]

This along with the addition of constraints completely streamlines and optimises inventory systems... one mesh per prop, no multiple animators... so many possibilities-

[vale fulcrum]

Thats cute im ngl XD

[marsh haven]

@woeful ruin thanks will deffo check it out later :D

[grizzled solar]

right right

[vale fulcrum]

Tyvm

[marsh haven]

Is there any idea to how long it'll be in open beta before it replaces 2.0 or is it going to be like Udon and both have both remain?

Cuz I can't wait to like upgrade my content and show my friends

[sour inlet]

I don't think it's gonna "replace" 2.0 but be a new option

[woeful ruin]

WAIT

NONE OF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT LOCAL AVATAR TESTING

WTF

ITS LIKE THE BEST PART

[sour inlet]

Oh yeaaaah

[severe glen]

NO IT ISNT

[lime plume]

local wha

[sour inlet]

that's awesome

[grizzled solar]

i hope thats the case cuz i have some friends who don't like changes

[verbal maple]

WHAT-

[vale fulcrum]

Interesting XD

[marsh haven]

I read it and shed a tear of happiness xd

[junior geyser]

Local Avatar Testing Pog

[grizzled solar]

whats local avatar testing

sounds very familiar

[verbal maple]

So you can test avatars in unity before uploading them or something?

[woeful ruin]

its testing for your avatar

but local

🙂

[crystal crag]

you can make a test build of your avatar on your local computer vs having to upload it

[vale fulcrum]

Oh yea i remember that

[neon mortar]

i mean it sounds cool but opening up vrc to just test it out isnt as annoying as opening up vrc to test out a new world

[fluid tide]

everything related to avatars 3.0 seems a lot to handle for me i'm at complete lost

[grizzled solar]

ohhh before having to actually uploading it? thats a thing? but like...how does that work locally if you didn't upload it

[sour inlet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622086006505472001/730964691568033812/unknown.png

[oak ice]

Do i need to use a 2 year old unity?

[neon mortar]

its what is supported yea

[crystal crag]

it'll only be visible to you when you are using it in game

[grizzled solar]

does it take you to some limbo world?

[neon mortar]

also so if i go to the open beta am i only going to see other open beta people?

[crystal crag]

they get added to a seperate area in the avatar tab called Other.

[severe glen]

People will see ur last avatar you had on iirc

[verbal maple]

So you can test it out before uploading it, that saves so much time!!

[crystal crag]

^^ yep

saves it localy on your computer

[severe glen]

its actually going to be really nice 🙏

[sharp crystal]

🤔

[grizzled solar]

i hope we still have the option to test it on desktop mode

[sour inlet]

Yeah it's faster than the upload and you can iterate on it and just click change avatar in game and reselect and you're on the new version

[verbal maple]

This’ll be another VRChat Renaissance I can feel it

[molten ore]

If we upload avatars with the open beta sdk, they aren’t compatible with live right?

[dim glade]

HOLD ON

[severe glen]

Probably, no more having to do some weird stuff with animations/animators to make neat things, its a lot easier

[lime plume]

The force non-vr option for worlds 3.0 don't work for me so hopefully i can test avatars 3.0 on desktop

[dim glade]

Can we change our viewports?

[marsh haven]

Just hope the beta won't last too long

[dim glade]

i.e grow massively or shrink

for our avatars

is that even possible?

[simple maple]

Okay, so i seen some IK options. Will it enable us to make some stuff related to FinalIK or that is just to turn off like an arm to make it be doing an animation of some kind and not be bothered by my own hand until it ends ?

[half imp]

viewpoints is something we messed with but there were issues. might happen. we'll see

[junior geyser]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what is actually added here. I mean I get that a lot is added and there's more control etc., for sure! Maybe it's just coz my current avatar I'm working on isin't that complex, technically, only having weapons he can equip and holster using a gesture.

[dim glade]

I swear we need a new channel dedicated just outlying every new feature people can achieve

[junior geyser]

^

[dim glade]

with the new system

[grizzled solar]

is it really not possible to convert a sdk2 avatar to 3.0?

[lime plume]

i cant wait for everyone to learn this stuff and make a bunch of yt tuts

[dim glade]

animations and blenshapes reusable ^

[lost niche]

I can't wait to see what the memelords make with this, haha

[dim glade]

implementating them is from back to square one for 2.0 to 3.0

[grizzled solar]

everything has to be a new project right?

[dim glade]

no

[simple maple]

Ngl, some kind of simple basic explanation of possibilities would be nice. But real one not just overall overview cuz thats not gonna cut it

[sour inlet]

@junior geyser even for a less complex avatar you can really up the the refinement. For example, I set it up so my breathing animation cycle will only exhale and stop if I'm in the middle of talking (active visemes) then inhale faster after

[junior geyser]

@sour inlet Nice!

[marsh haven]

I'm pretty sure there's gonna be alot of tutorials soon. Give it a few days things will make more sense

[neon finch]

@neon finch was wondering if stop action or touch/movement based animations no longer need scripts but are doable with the new system?
@marsh haven Not sure to be honest, best to ask @upper remnant in that case

[grizzled solar]

am actually kinda curious about how desktop users are gonna use the new emote system

[versed hill]

additive animation + using rigid bodies to copy IK rotations between bones. Time to try n make Ben 10 with functional omnitrix >=]

[junior geyser]

Will Avatars 3.0 allow me to not have to seperate my meshes so that I may animate materials separately on them? if that makes sense lol

[marsh haven]

Yeah figured Lin and rero have been waiting for this to continue their interactive kit so I'll see ye @neon finch

[simple maple]

Okay, so i seen some IK options. Will it enable us to make some stuff related to FinalIK or that is just to turn off like an arm to make it be doing an animation of some kind and not be bothered by my own hand until it ends ?

[severe glen]

you had to separate them before? to animate a material?

[coral grail]

will there be a new Tupper mega tutorial for AV3?

[stiff tangle]

wait holy fucc i just realised i wont need a ton of meshes anymore

[narrow dirge]

just curious with this Avatar 3.0 are we able to have clocks on avatars

[junior geyser]

I got 3 separate places on my mesh that have different emissions, with different rate of 'Pulse'. I've managed to get it working, but they require separate meshes to do it.

[crystal crag]

@simple maple i Believe you can do that by setting up avatar mask in your animators

[obsidian spoke]

is this where i go to find people to commision for an avatar?

[silent grove]

Awwwww heck

[junior geyser]

@severe glen If your question was directed at me; I couldn't get separate material animations to work unless I separated the mesh that each separate animation is on lol

[marsh haven]

Wait all my transformation avatars and cycle systems don't have desync issues with this anymore and is always updated?

[stiff tangle]

@obsidian spoke check out VRC Traders in #community-servers-old

[marsh haven]

OK I'm set for good.

[severe glen]

Oh that is odd, I would imagine you can find away to get it working with this update

[sour inlet]

@simple maple the IK options in state behaviors are for the latter, so disabling or enabling parts that the animation or IK should control.

[stiff tangle]

i think probably the best part about this is the sync

[junior geyser]

I've got it as optimised as I could to make it work, but at the end got 2 Skinned Mesh Renderers and a Mesh renderer for my weapons etc.

Yea. It's all so much info. I reckon we'd just need to look into it deeper to fully understand how it all works.

Well obviously

but yee

[simple maple]

K, thanks Kung for answer. So not something i craved for but well, lets say whole thing will be possibly worth anything

at last

[dim glade]

We can now surpass the 8 seat limit now with 3.0????

[finite marsh]

the only thing i take interest in is the ability for my inventory systems to work without worrying about people joining before i toggle it

[sour inlet]

Were you referring to that or the default TPose and IKPose? @simple maple

though neither of those is for setup of your own totally customized finalik script

[zenith gust]

so like

whats the point of 3.0

[neon mortar]

so wait theres more than 8 emotes now? that sounds nice

[tough epoch]

[dim glade]

Seats folks?

[upper remnant]

@marsh haven Stop action works better in 3.0, you don't need any extra hierarchy, just 1 particle and child animator

[dim glade]

what about them

in the new system