quest-optimization

[warm jackal]

I understand the issue now, but I barely have any experience in blender, Could you maybe dm me a more detailed set of instructions for how to get this working?

[tawny apex]

Thats gotta suck for public rooms

[pulsar turtle]

1

am trying to upload a quest avater to vrc but i cant becuase i need to change the shader but it wont let me

[sharp zinc]

just drag another texture or material on it and it will override

otherwise go to the model import settings of that and in the materials tab set the method thingy to legacy external mats

[pulsar turtle]

wont work

@sharp zinc these are where the texture are but i still can override it

[sharp zinc]

nah like um click the square that has that play arrow icon on the right of it

then look in the inspector tab on the right

and then go to the materials section of the 4 options at the top

and then change it from use embedded to external (legacy)

[pulsar turtle]

k

@sharp zinc sorry for pinging you but um

now this is happing

[sharp zinc]

add an animator

[pulsar turtle]

how

[sharp zinc]

it says at the bottom the red error

act like ur adding a avatar descriptor

but type in "animator"

[pulsar turtle]

like this

[sharp zinc]

Yes, so see where it says avatar and there is a box

[sharp zinc]

click the dot circle button to the right of that box and try to find something that sounds like it would go to ur avatar

[pulsar turtle]

aa

ya

[sharp zinc]

if there isnt anything but 1 that isnt relevent then dont

[pulsar turtle]

ya there is only 1 thing

all there is a a damge speare

[sharp zinc]

then dont

thats for smth else

your problem should be fixed now, go upload

[pulsar turtle]

its not

[sharp zinc]

have you tried uploading?

[pulsar turtle]

WAIT

its working

[sharp zinc]

yeah the errors persist

if you don't have clear on build, which I recommend you keep it off just incase unity does the funni and clears your errors when its not supposed to and then makes it hard for someone troubleshooting to figure out waht went wrong

im just paranod

[pulsar turtle]

ya

but

now how do i upload it onto pc and quest

[sharp zinc]

you switch the build from windows to android in the vrchat builder tab

[pulsar turtle]

kk

@sharp zinc i just tryed to look at the avater in game but the model is not there

its gone

[sharp zinc]

on pc or quest?

[pulsar turtle]

both @sharp zinc

[sharp zinc]

what unity version are you using?

needs to be exactly 2019.4.29f1

not 2019.4.30f1 or any other one

[pulsar turtle]

2019.4.29f1

[sharp zinc]

hm

you sure its not showing up

I see it as "dragon owo"

[sharp zinc]

looks like the one her

[pulsar turtle]

the one thats pc only works

[sharp zinc]

oh so when you switch the build to android, you also need to republish it

forgot to mention that my bad

so it can publish while in android build and therefore publish to quest

[pulsar turtle]

Ya but I accidentally lost that version of the avatar

[sharp zinc]

what do you mean lost?

[pulsar turtle]

I deleted it

Vut

Wait

[sharp zinc]

WHY

[pulsar turtle]

Do you think why it was not working was because I uploaded it onto quest first

[sharp zinc]

who told you that is a good practice

[pulsar turtle]

It was a accident

[sharp zinc]

no I think it wasnt working because you just switched the project to android, but didnt upload again

unless you did?

[pulsar turtle]

I did not no

[sharp zinc]

that is why then

well, while you remake your avatar remember that and you should be good

[pulsar turtle]

kk

@sharp zinc whats this

[sharp zinc]

means you need to make its rig humanoid

[pulsar turtle]

how

[sharp zinc]

click on your model in the projects tab again

go to animation tab in the 1/4 options

[pulsar turtle]

k

[sharp zinc]

then set animation type to humanoid

its prob on generic

or none

[pulsar turtle]

this is happonig now

[sharp zinc]

go back to where you set the thing to be humanoid

should be a configure button near there

then set the red boxes to the bones they should be in the right panel

[pulsar turtle]

kk

i have no idea waht am doing

@sharp zinc i still need help

NVM

NVM

[sharp zinc]

nice u figured it out!

[clear wasp]

I remember thinking I had to make avatars like 25k or they would be laggy

I mean they can get laggy but I've noticed that you can get away with some stuff.

But holy crap I've seen 200k poly avatars and it's annoying

[weak moth]

Question for those are 200K polys active at all time or hidden behind multiple clothing toggles and so on.

200K with 5 outfits and 2 hair styles is alright, it won't render it all at same time anyway

[eternal mica]

Quest fallback avatars are limited to Excellent or Good quality according to the vrchat documentation on the website, but the SDK allows Excellent, Good and Medium quest avatars to be uploaded as fallbacks. Which is correct?

[heady wing]

I'd stick to the documentation

[sharp zinc]

Id email them about the documentation being incorrect or outdated if you can upload a MEDIUM rated FALLBACK, not just any quest avatar upload

Not sure what the correct line is but maybe "[e-mail]" which is the general inquiry line could get your message to the right people

[jaunty crater]

um so like it says my avatar is too big to import to vrchat (quest) how to I fix this, its only 00.90 mb over

[humble canyon]

probably crunch compress some textures

[jaunty crater]

ok, thank you, I got it to work finally

[clear wasp]

Some people don't use this feature but honestly it's very good, especially for worlds.

I crunch compress pretty much everything as honestly I don't see the difference when I don't do it

[humble canyon]

very important so you don't have to cut content on the quest

[final spade]

most of the time crunch compression is a net positive

[clear wasp]

Honestly I crunch compress everything. If I ever saw it look different and bad then I'd undo it

But have never had it make anything even really look different

[sharp zinc]

How do you put an avatar into your Oculus quest?

[humble canyon]

you use Unity on a PC to do the uploading

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/cross-platform-setup

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/creating-your-first-avatar

[vale karma]

Alright

That's it

I'm making my own VRchat avatar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9Ebe_rA8M

Me trying to make a VRchat for the first time be like:

Or.. better yet...

A world FULL of avatars...

(I'll give credit to the people who made them, of course.)

(Lots and lots of credit.)

[sharp zinc]

Give them your credit card

[vale karma]

I don't got one.

Ok so I got blender and unity up and running

Let's do this S-word!

[clear wasp]

I un-subdivided his eyes some but idk how else to optimize my boy

He's 19k polys

I want to get him down to medium cause rn he's poor

I don't want to really decimate but if that's all I can do I'll make a decimated version

[jaunty drift]

if its 19 k it wont be hidden by default anyway

[regal schooner]

I'm no closer to getting any solid answers on how to rig this thing. All the tutorials use blender and I've never touched Unity. I also can't test the model because my computer doesn't support VR, and I can't upload because I'm a quest user with no Chat+ or whatever it's called. Will someone please help me??

[clear wasp]

I thought it has to be medium

[clear wasp]

You don't need VRChat+ to upload. You don't need VR to test it, you can use desktop mode. You need to use Blender to mess with the rig.

How did you get this image? If you don't use Blender

[regal schooner]

I'm using Maya @clear wasp . I'm currently watching a rigging tutorial that's been purposed for Maya users. Not sure if it's 100% correct but its getting there.

[clear wasp]

I've never used Maya. Blender is free and good enough for me

[sharp zinc]

On default, when you install VRChat on your Quest, it makes the range of avatars you can see automatically without manually showing from excellent to medium, but you can then change it to excellent to poor

so any new users wont likely be aware of this setting and then still not see their poor avatar automatically

unless they changed the default to poor which I dont believe they did or would do

[daring root]

i have a quest 2 and a 3060 what render reseloution should i use while on 120hz????????

[abstract oar]

what avatar shaders are optimized for quest players
(aka quest visible)

[nimble mica]

hi

[humble canyon]

you can only use the provided vrchat shaders for avatars on Quest

[abstract oar]

cause i used vrchat/mobile/diffused shaders
and the quest players saw me as white

but that should be a compatible shader

[shell jay]

Might be a texture or vertex color issue

Make sure the texture file format is supported on Quest like jpg or png

And remove vertex colors

[shell jay]

Depending on if you're using Link, Air Link, VDT, or ALVR you could probably use 150% or higher

Just mess with it a bit in SteamVR

[idle widget]

is it possible to have the same optimization that i would have on my gaming pc onto my oculus rift without using steam VR?

i can connect it to my PC but i'm wondering if i can play games that are on my oculus and having the option to connect it to my PC for better graphics and resolution

sorry if this doesn't make sense

i just don't know if i am restricted to buying games on steam only for better graphics vs playing without a PC with worse graphics

[humble canyon]

unless the title has cross-buy you need to buy it again to have the better graphics of PC

[idle widget]

ah

ok thank you

[humble canyon]

https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/section/2335732183153590/?locale=en_US#/?_k=ke156z here's a list of oculus Quest titles that support cross-buy

and I suppose you could check your like Rift software library page to check?

[idle widget]

you're a time savior

thank u so much

[humble canyon]

no problem glad to be of help

but I would note the cross-buy
between the quest and the Oculus PC not steam

[idle widget]

but the graphics quality on oculus pc would be the same as if it was being launched on steam right?

as long as it's connected to my pc

[humble canyon]

yes

[idle widget]

okay ty

[limpid pewter]

VRChat.. please.. :c

[humble canyon]

maybe do a little more crunch compression

[jaunty drift]

How is your polygon count ?

[limpid pewter]

Way too much, but don't worry, I can do it. ^^
It's just that VRChat's 10MB limit is sometimes annoying, especially for a few bytes.

[jaunty drift]

It's just that my avatar is horribly optimized and I'm not even near 10mb so I was wondering if u got way bigger poly count than 70k

Soon I will be merging meshes though

S00n

[dusky fog]

i can't get my avatar below 13.5mb and i set mesh compression to high and these are the texture settings

and how do you use crunch compress? it isn't changing the file size

i tried crunch compress on 1, 50, and 100 and none of those settings worked

is there a way to fix this? the textures are already messed up and it still won't upload

[dusky fog]

is anyone going to help me?

[humble canyon]

you can just put the settings back to normal so it doesn't look so low res

[dusky fog]

its a quest avatar, it was almost 30mb before

[humble canyon]

yes but that's literally N64 texture quality 32 max

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit this will let you know what stick you up file size as there's probably something else taking up space if you can't get under 10 megabytes the textures destroyed like that

[dusky fog]

i tried that

didn't work

[humble canyon]

you need to switch to PC so you can successfully upload

[dusky fog]

i already did the pc avatar, now i'm doing the quest version

[humble canyon]

yes but you need a completed upload for the build tool to work so you switch to PC and go test upload

[humble canyon]

and as I mentioned you would need to swap to PC to get the build tool to tell you what's up

[dusky fog]

the pc version is already done

[humble canyon]

as I can't help if I don't know what's taking up file size

[dusky fog]

now i know what you mean

[humble canyon]

no wonder your texture compression wasn't helping

27 megabytes is big for an avatar

you need to take the Avatar Into blender the deal with that

[dusky fog]

i was able to make a 400mb avatar into a 10mb avatar once but i don't remember how i did it

[radiant osprey]

Some tips for mesh compression: I personally uncheck anything the mesh isn't using. I turn off Import Visibility, Cameras, and Lights as I never need them from Blender, as well as animations and materials (since I use Unity materials instead of the FBX's).
Another thing that can drastically lower size sometimes is "Tangents". Set these to "Import" and it should lower the size quite a bit.

Also I'd remove any blendshapes in Blender you know you aren't using in Unity

Blendshapes for high-poly meshes are a huge factor to filesize

[dusky fog]

thanks

[clear wasp]

I'd recommend merging materials together with CATS

[shut quiver]

im trying to port my pc avatar to quest. But when I switch shaders to the quest shaders, some things look really bad on my avatar since it switches to opaque instead of cutout or transparent

if theres a fix someone knows let me know, also yes im on the android build

[humble canyon]

you would basically have to cut out the transparent bit in blender as you cannot use any transparency on Quest avatars

[shut quiver]

Is there any video like on yt that shows how to do that?

[solemn canopy]

use the knife tool, it's easy peasey

[wispy epoch]

What sort of things can be done to reduce quest world initialization time?
Here's what I've tried so far:

• Set music tracks to 'Streaming'
• Reduce world size via compression (to around 35 MB)
• Reduced max size of textures to around 512
  The biggest assets in my world are audio files and meshes, both make up 1/3 of the file size.

I've checked VRChat's guide, but it's mostly focused on performance optimization, not load times 🤔 https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-optimization#worlds

[radiant osprey]

You can also compress audio files as well as meshes. Click the assets and in the inspector is an option to compress them. For meshes(/fbx), it'll be called Mesh Compression. For audio clips, it'll be the "Compression Format" and "Quality". If you're going for smallest filesize, set the Compression Format to Vorbix/MP3 for music/longer audio tracks, and ADPCM for short effects

[wispy epoch]

Oh yes, our audio has compression quality set to around 70-80

[wispy epoch]

The trouble in my case isn't file size though - it's world initialization time. But those are related, of course

I'll look into mesh compression, thank you. I was under the impression that it isn't lossless, which might break mesh colliders

I'm just surprised at the load time of our world. It's almost the same size as the VRChat home, but takes significantly longer to load. (30s compared to 8s)

[radiant osprey]

It is not lossless so it will mess with things slightly. Low compression takes quite a bit off filesize with little impact on quality.
But if you're trying to improve startup times, you may have to profile your world. I'd also actually stay away from compression at all as the game will have to decompress the compressed assets on load which can increase load times.

[wispy epoch]

Thanks for the advice!

I don't think there's any tools to profile loading times, right?

Sorry, I realize it's a niche topic. Hoping to learn something from other people's experience 🙂

[radiant osprey]

The built-in profiler can profile what's going on in your scene but it can't really profile load times in specific. But it may show you if there's anything taking up CPU ms

[wispy epoch]

Hmmm I'd like to think it performs quite well, outside load times 😅
And with it being on Quest, it seems like it might be hard to track the root causes...

[radiant osprey]

Do you have a Quest 1 or 2?

[wispy epoch]

Quest 2.

I assume that it's the mesh & audio size that's hurting the load times. Adding 2x more meshes and audio increased load times from ~20s to ~30s

Perhaps it's just something I'll have to live with 😔

Just a shame that it takes about a second per (compressed) megabyte to load! Doesn't quite feel right..!

[radiant osprey]

Combining meshes may help

[wispy epoch]

Oh they're combined alright!! 😄 I wish they were MORE separate!

The entire world only has... ten-ish meshes?

Or rather, there's usually around 10 unique meshes on screen at a time.

I appreciate your advice though! Makes me glad I haven't missed anything major so far.

[radiant osprey]

Any video players in the world?

[wispy epoch]

Nope!

I do have a very high amount of scripts in the world, though only a few of them have start or update methods.

I'll take a closer look tomorrow, to see what else it might be 😘

[wispy epoch]

Turns out it was the scripts / big hierarchy. If I remove them, load times go to 9s (from 30s)

[clear wasp]

I recommend setting music to mono

That can help cut filesize down on music

[wispy epoch]

Oh haha file size isn't too bad, fortunately.
Don't think I'd set music to mono! That would really detract from the experience, I think.

[slow plover]

before setting audio to Mono I'd strongly recommend playing with the Unity OGG compression-- you can shove it really low with pretty minimal loss in quality. Vorbis is magic

[wispy epoch]

Hmmm we've been using wav files so far, because... wait, I just checked the docs..!

[...] the audio data is compressed with either Vorbis/MP3 for standalone and mobile platforms [...]
OK cool! I'll re-encode them as ogg then. I was under the impression Unity would do that automatically..!!

[wispy epoch]

In regards to my original question, I think there's nothing I can really do to optimize it - the objects I'm using are networked, so they'd probably have to be in the hierarchy when the scene is first loaded. (I could remove the networking, of course)

How about a different question instead!
I just discovered that reverb zones are whitelisted for Quest.
Are they cheap, or should I disable them if my world's performance is CPU-bound?

[radiant osprey]

Unity does automatically compress them to ogg, as long as you set the compression format to it

[wispy epoch]

vorbis, right?

I think that's the default

In that case I suppose there's nothing I need to do..?

[radiant osprey]

You will almost always be CPU bound in vrc. It's how the game works. Even on PC in a small world with virtually nothing in it using CPU, having 2 or 3 people causes me to drop below 120fps from cpu

[wispy epoch]

That part I completely understand! I'm just wondering whether reverb zones are something I should keep enabled or not.

I'm developing for Quest - on PC I don't see any issues either.

[radiant osprey]

You could profile them to see what they're taking up

[wispy epoch]

Heh, well I could! I was hoping to perchance learn from someone who's used them before.

I totally expected them to be blocked on Quest.

[radiant osprey]

I haven't really dabbled in them much so I can't say off the top of my head

[sharp zinc]

Is this often because of people's avatars having needless amounts of seperate meshs and material slots increasing draw calls

[radiant osprey]

It's due to the game itself. VRC does a ton of networking that results in a LOT of CPU usage. No amount of avatar optimization can fix that

[sharp zinc]

Oh yea

my cpu is pretty weak im curious how that networking stuff works

[sullen bolt]

are physics bones going to be added to quest?

[heady wing]

The devs have said that if they perform well enough yes.

[sullen bolt]

Yeah, im tired of playing on the fricking pc to get dynamic bones

does anyone know when?

[heady wing]

Nope!

[sullen bolt]

Ok!

[heady wing]

They may not even come to Quest, it just depends of how well they perform (which so far is apparently a lot better than dynamic bones, so hopefully)

[sullen bolt]

yeah

thanks!

[pallid horizon]

My particle effects on quest look terrible. Big and Blocky.. are there really no properly working particle shaders for quest?

[heady wing]

You can use a mesh to fake cut-out on Quest particles, but otherwise, there's no transparency allowed on Quest avatars.

[pallid horizon]

what would be the best way to figure out how to do that first thing you said a quick googling yielded nothing relevant

[heady wing]

Should be an option under the particle system renderer module called "Render Mode", you should be able to set that to a mesh.

Mesh particles can't be billboarded however.

[pallid horizon]

ah okay thanks for the info

[clear sphinx]

So I use my Quest 2 for PC, but it like freeze lags everyone like every 5-10 seconds. Can anyone provide advice on how to make it not lag?

[pallid horizon]

are you using airlink, virtual desktop or oculus link cable?

[clear sphinx]

The link cable.

But it pulls up a different set up compared to regular occulus

I'm new to the whole thing 😅

[pallid horizon]

I wish I could help more, I've been trying to get my link cable to work with oculus support for over a week 🙃

[clear sphinx]

so virtual desktop and occulus link are different???

I thought the Virtual was what happened when you connected to PC

[pallid horizon]

the link is a physical cable from headset to pc, virtual desktop transmits what is on the pc to the quest over ethernet

[clear sphinx]

o.o Explain that one

[pallid horizon]

two of them are wireless

your pc has to be connected to really fast internet

[clear sphinx]

So Fiber

I got that

[pallid horizon]

well you're in luck, you didnt need the cable to begin with

🙂

[clear sphinx]

God Damnit

So I could do Virtual Desktop, but trying to do the Link or Airlink will mess with it

[heady wing]

Not fast global internet, just local.

[clear sphinx]

Does gig internet work?

[clear sphinx]

I connected my computer to the Ethernet and my performance instantly became Perfect. I'm using Virtual Desktop and OMG I didn't realize my internet was actually able to go full 1200 mbps on me

[onyx ice]

I went on my oculus quest 2 and went to vr chat and nobody can hear on me and I checked if I was on mute but it said it was on how can I fix it?

[sharp zinc]

How can i make my quest map night time/ add lights like uhh..lamps? it seems quest maps have those features

[cold quiver]

Hey, I have an avatar that I want turned into quest and pc.

I have a base for it but I cant get some of the hair toggles, color toggles and body toggles to work. Can anyone help me?

[prime trench]

how do i have my quest stop stuttering and lagging so badly

[heady wing]

A few tips to get a higher FPS on VRChat Quest (during actually playing):

1. Don't go into worlds with high player count (~15 is a good balance between count, and performance on the Quest 2, but the lower the better)
2. Don't manually show performance blocked avatars, especially if they have a rating.
3. Use an optimised avatar on yourself (using a on yourself won't be too bad)
4. Don't enable mirrors, if you need to, enable it as 2D (not all worlds support this) or avatars only.

If you have an original Quest:

1. That player count shouldn't exceed 12.
2. Set performance blocking to hide and worse.
3. Use a highly optimised avatar ( or better)
4. Never enable mirrors.

If these don't help, or you are lagging in practically empty worlds, report a bug on the canny, or send a ticket to #vrchat-support

[prime trench]

Thanks man

[weary jasper]

This sucks since since the limitations are quite strict

[heady wing]

The limitations are apparently really loose, especially when compared to similar games. (can't confirm from experience, this information is based on what other people (who are knowledgeable in this) have said)

[glacial jay]

is there any reason to why when i upload an avatar with 7.5mb size of only fbx and the vrchat sdk made it up to 15.95mb

[sharp zinc]

because the model itself is 7.5MB, and all the textures you apply to it also add to filesize

assuming you got the 7.5MB number from looking at the model's filesize

[glacial jay]

i didnt even put any texture on it

lel

[sharp zinc]

let me see

[glacial jay]

i try to lowering down the poly on blender and delete some bone it still dont work

[sharp zinc]

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit/releases

import this

try to upload again

and it will say in the plugin what is taking the filesize

[glacial jay]

sure

[sharp zinc]

only after you attempt to upload it tho remember

[glacial jay]

and where can you find the tab?

[sharp zinc]

up at the top

near the VRCSDK

[glacial jay]

oh i mean how do i use it

im still confused. 28.8MB in unity while the real file size it 7.2MB

[sharp zinc]

yeah im not sure how that happens

but it is prefabbed

unpack it and maybe it will be able to make filesize reports on the consituent parts on the next upload

right click the gameobj named "fix" and unpack prefab completely

[glacial jay]

ok

after unpacking it and attempted upload

[sharp zinc]

you have "shader" typed in ur search box delte that

[glacial jay]

lel

[sharp zinc]

bruh

try going to windows

i want to make sure android isnt being dumb

[glacial jay]

windows.

[sharp zinc]

do you happen to have alot of blendshapes? like a lot a lot

[sharp zinc]

windows build target

[glacial jay]

well ya

[sharp zinc]

it may be that

so make a dupe of your model in blender

and like delete all shapekeys

and see what unity has to say about it

[glacial jay]

i just deleted the blendshape on the duped models

[sharp zinc]

?

not in unity

what

how

this quick?

[glacial jay]

lel i did that earlier when i try to fix the issue

only remove like 100kb of real size

but it still the same in the unity

15.5? on windows

[sharp zinc]

i am so confused

am I able to test ur model

[glacial jay]

sure i guess. just dm me so i can sent you the model

[radiant osprey]

In the model import settings, look for "Tangents" and set those to "Import". This should reduce filesize a lot

[glacial jay]

Oki

[radiant osprey]

As well as setting Mesh Compression to "Low" (it may affect quality a bit depending on the complexity of your mesh)

[glacial jay]

Thanks

[dusty bone]

my tip for quest optimization: as long as it vaguely resembles your avatar your g fam

[oblique remnant]

the size displayed in the world toolkit is not the final size, the files will be compressed once packaged

some assets may be affected more than others

[sharp zinc]

It was shapekeys that were the problem

[terse olive]

Am I able to have two materials to be quest compatible? Or am I restricted to one

[gentle kindle]

You can make more than two
But for optimization is not recommended

[viscid notch]

Bro why can’t my password change already

[sharp zinc]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system

[terse olive]

Thank you!

[sharp zinc]

nah thank you for optimizing

[humble canyon]

yep better for everyone's framerate that you're interested in optimizing

[terse olive]

ofc!

Also want to make a good optimized model for Spookality.
I must refrain from adding a bunch of cool effects

[humble canyon]

any other questions you have about optimization

[terse olive]

I suppose its not about optimization specifically, but do Quest avatars have the option to have emissions? Such as glowing eyes using a texture mask. I have not messed around with the limited shaders

[humble canyon]

I do know about like material animation but worse comes to worse you could put the glowing eyes on a blendshape and hide it behind the regular eyes?

[terse olive]

No material animation needed. Masks are just second textures to tell where the emissions need to be. I'll probably experiment with the quest shaders when I get there

[humble canyon]

oh sorry Miss read the question give me a sec to go check if there is a emissive slot

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-limitations

this lists all of the shaders and the slots they have

Standard Lite A "Lite" version of Unity Standard. Supports diffuse, normal maps, metallic+smoothness maps, and optional emission maps. Channel mappings for relevant maps are identical to Unity Standard Metallic setup. The diffuse texture is tinted by the vertex colours

Requires a diffuse (RGB) base texture.

[terse olive]

Awesome thank you

[humble canyon]

hope you have fun with your avatar

[weary jasper]

Is there any other better ways to reduce polygons

Trying to reduce my avatar polygons under 20,000, trying to do so just makes my avatar have random holes in them and stuff

[humble canyon]

dissolving Edge Loops gets cleaner results

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWhuCxFXy9k

[weary jasper]

Thanks

[humble canyon]

yeah that way is not going to have random holes in your avatar and you have a bit more control for keeping the spots where you need High detail for articulation

[sharp zinc]

Why did materials go down from 6 to 4?

My ultra low poly kobold

Is now rated poor from goof

Since this change

[terse olive]

is 20k the max it can be?

[heady wing]

You can go over but you really really shouldn't.

[terse olive]

If everything else is optimized-
1 material
normal bones
1 animator
ect.
How much lag would a 30k model cause

[humble canyon]

the problem is everyone would have to manually show your avatar which would be inconvenient

[terse olive]

ahhhhh

alright yeah, very inconvenient

Ill see if I can bake the textures on a low poly

[heady wing]

It wouldn't cause much lag, but most people tend to mix that 30k with 20 materials 50 animators, 2500 bones, etc. If everything else is optimised, the biggest issue is what Rainwolf said.

So yeah, it's probably worth the effort to find places you can cut down on tris.

[humble canyon]

and because of the fallback Avatar system your average user might not even notice your avatar isn't on for them

unless you go with one of those snarky custom fallback avatars

[short jacinth]

ive been having trouble with converting unity to the android builder after uploading the SDK. i have my avatar uploaded on the pc platform but i would like to make it quest compatible. What happens is when i try to switch the platform to android, unity crashes... iv ebeen trying to trouble shoot for the past 4 hours and no luck. anything helps! (please @ me with info)

[weary jasper]

nvm it just made it worse lmao

[sharp zinc]

if you are still getting holes i believe its because you are dissolving on geometry that has verticies right ontop of other verticies when they should be merged but there not

or you are dissolving and the geometry next to it has that problem

[shell jay]

At least with Build & Test I found no significant file size difference using Mesh Compression aside from it increasing by 1kb

[radiant osprey]

How many polys is your mesh

[shell jay]

I tried it on one with like 160k+ tris on all Mesh Compression levels

[sharp zinc]

Blendshapes on your model are usually the cause of this

delete some

[glacial jay]

I already did. Lel

Thx thou

[sharp zinc]

wait

oh u the same person

[glacial jay]

Lel yes

[grizzled bough]

hello, hehe, I don't know where to send my question

[humble canyon]

so ask your questions so we can tell you the right spot

[grizzled bough]

Well, the game does not open me on the full screen and I want to change the graphic quality

[humble canyon]

https://steamah.com/vrchat-how-to-set-fullscreen-2021-steam-version/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJbVU98VJdo

[grizzled bough]

okay thank you very much

[wispy epoch]

I wouldn't say that's entirely correct

VRChat currently has a bug where it retains the windowed resolution after entering fullscreen. You probably want this instead: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/launch-options#resolution-and-screen-choice
(Though alt+enter is probably fine for most purposes)

#quest-optimization might not be the right spot for this type of discussion though.

Unless you're trying to capture quest content - which you can do by castint to your PC or a chromecast device

[worldly tundra]

thats a bug? its the most useful feature ever for low-end desktop players

[wispy epoch]

Yep. Hope it gets fixed at some point

[clear nebula]

Heyo, was looking at an old OC connect video and it has some nice resources to consider for optimizeing stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvMQUz0g_Tk

you cant just disable rendering on VR Chat though, so instead I would probably use OVR Metrics Tool (https://developer.oculus.com/downloads/package/ovr-metrics-tool) so you can stare at key pieces of data like CPU and GPU utilization to work out your bottle neck (not as accurate to gage your true bottle neck but its a start)

[humble canyon]

that's a handy flowchart

[sharp zinc]

i saved it

[sharp zinc]

Would anyone would let me have their avatar/world and properly Quest Optimize it? Free of course, I just need to make sure I can do it consistently 4 vrctraders

[sharp zinc]

[worldly tundra]

if your still looking, maybe @fervent scaffold ..?
Ferret Lake would be real nice on Quest 👉 👈

[sharp zinc]

A world? oo i want to try

shoot a dm katte if ur interested

[fervent scaffold]

[fervent scaffold]

You know, that would be a real blessing

I've been meaning to do it for forever, but work has been in the way.
But on behalf of the ferret community I know a whole lot of people would appreciate it! 😅

[sharp zinc]

oight just dm me so i dont forget

[sharp zinc]

i don't even have a head, second leg, or full arms and i'm already at 7,886 verts -_-

[worldly tundra]

you’ve got 20k to work with to be Poor, your fine

[sharp zinc]

Alright

[nova finch]

@sharp zinc I'm really struggling to understand the material change for optimization. If there is a resolution limit then it shouldn't be an issue to have 8 materials per model concurrently. If my ancient code from 2003 can handle 36 material maps on its massively outdated renderer then I'm certain you can do better. Yet the opposite has occurred and now you went from 8 being good ranking to very poor. On a sub 500 vert low les model.

Top kek

Oh wait you're using unity

laughs even harder

[sharp zinc]

Don't think I follow

You ping the right person?

[nova finch]

Yeah. It was contextual to your response earlier towards optimization.

[sharp zinc]

Replying would be handy

[nova finch]

Honestly material draw calls should not be eating up and making your game cpu bound. It really boggles my mind who is coding this sometimes.

[sharp zinc]

I suppose its unity?

[nova finch]

Unity is not really ever been efficient. It's just designed to lower the barrier of entry into development.

[sharp zinc]

Yeah it makes it easier for goofs including me to learn and get started with any kind of content creation

[nova finch]

But you can't blame unity for everything. I've seen even the trashiest of engines like torque be gutted by a competent team.

But at that point you should ask yourself why you're not just making your own project.

[sharp zinc]

My own engine?

[heady wing]

Unity is fine software, it kinda also gets a bad rap because it's so easy to use

[nova finch]

I see unity the same way I see unreal.

And a whole lot of "babbies first project" type deal with awful spaghetti code.

If else statements in place of number generators.

Hacked together functions

Truly goofy stuff

[heady wing]

Let's be honest, there's at least one bit of duct tape code in everything

Probably

[nova finch]

Iunno man. I'm part of the unity station project of porting ss13 out of byond and it's been one hell of a collaboration. Never underestimate dedicated autists and engineers.

[sharp zinc]

I wouldn't even begin to know enough to understand how efficient/inefficient unity's code is so

[nova finch]

And of course you have passion projects like ducky who crafts stuff like dwarf fortress

Or Terry davis

God rest his soul

[heady wing]

Uhhhh... i don't really get where this is going now

[sharp zinc]

heh

[nova finch]

This isn't going anywhere.

:)

[sharp zinc]

so uh vrchat is a game that lets completely incompetent people upload unoptimized garbage

thats a thing

thats what comes with it

f

[nova finch]

I'd rather have a hard geometry limit on uploads and a limit on complexity than to see one more secondlife like scenario.

[heady wing]

Well, there was one

[nova finch]

I still have trauma from the 3 million vert fire extinguisher.

[humble canyon]

that's why the quest makes it to where you can't turn on very poor by default

[sharp zinc]

with no lods???

at least have lods

right

[nova finch]

No lods

[heady wing]

3 million verts is more than would be needed for a world, and 15 people in VRChat

[nova finch]

The only thing protecting your precious gpu would be object occlusion making it not render within the level geometry until you have line of sight.

[sharp zinc]

I think they downloaded an asset that was for a render and had no idea

silly

[heady wing]

But allowing user content comes with upsides and downsides
Ups:

• (Almost) Infinite creativity
  Downs:
• Fire extinguisher

Both digital and real

[sharp zinc]

yes

[nova finch]

But God Danm secondlife was full of that too. We actually had to setup script limiters for combat Sims because users couldn't comprehend why wearing 30 different multi gadgets was causing massive Sim time dilation.

[heady wing]

But as for this question, people don't do everything from scratch because why would you do that when someone's done it for you?

Sure, you could do it better, but you'd need lots of experience and knowledge

Experience and knowledge, that a lot of people don't have

[sharp zinc]

I am still learnin my poor dum brain I think its finally doing good things after 9 months

lots of people have no experience in this before they played VRChat

[nova finch]

Yes but I've seen the rise and fall of many softwares from not adhering the the fundamentals. Google especially loves to go through phases within its development cycle. Take chrome os for example. When it first came out it was a masterpiece of engineering made by people that really knew their shit. It had the most efficient low overhead kernel I ever saw out of any os and it was pretty much a heavily customized build of gentoo. But then after the greats establish the framework. The company doesn't understand why the fundamentals were important, and students are hired on and next thing you know it's just like every other OS that's full of bloat and the kernel is now so fucked you can't even install normal Linux onto the device anymore, holding your hardware hostage over really simple shit.

[sharp zinc]

What fundamentals do you think are essential for VRChat and its players to follow in order for its survival

[heady wing]

Chrome OS is based on Linux, and always has been, hence my point, "why do it yourself when someone's done it for you?"

According to Wikipedia (no I'm not bothered to look into it any further, I have other work to do) It was initially based on Ubuntu

[nova finch]

For one, cross play compatibility so that there isn't a major separation between the services of pc and quest, even if it means having to restrict the potential of pc users. I think having stricter limits to file sizes for example and having them be consistent between platforms for example is a major one. Though this model isn't really going to be feasible until physics bones are done. So it's not worth discussing.

Since there is just absolutely no way you are going to pull that off as is. It is very much cpu bound.

[heady wing]

stricter limits to file sizes
VRChat upping the Quest world size limit to 100mb:

[nova finch]

The whole point of the new ui for example is to help establish the framework towards these goals.

And I'm certain this has been discussed within the company's roadmap.

[heady wing]

And the major separation isn't a VRChat issue, it's not a Unity issue, it's a CPU architecture issue

[nova finch]

Actually. I would argue that ARM is getting pretty efficient at virtualizing x86 instruction sets.

Have you not seen the apple m1 processor?

[heady wing]

The second issue is the kernel-level issues

Android isn't Windows

[nova finch]

Dat risc-v tho

Yes. Thank god.

[sand mantle]

m.1 is apple

wish it wasnt tho....

[nova finch]

You missed the point. You don't need apples optimized setup to pull it off.

[heady wing]

And Apple is also a highly specialised company.

[nova finch]

You can install full windows 10 onto a quest 2 right now.

[heady wing]

You do though

[nova finch]

Even without root.

[sharp zinc]

without root?

[nova finch]

Yes.

[heady wing]

Windows has ARM builds

[sharp zinc]

oh

[nova finch]

Android based VMware applications can now virtualize a single x86 thread.

It's not fast.

But it works.

[sand mantle]

ye m.1 is like a whole motherboard set up in the most optimizal way you could imagine, you cant really shove it into a phone, thats most likely why iphone12 = 13

[heady wing]

Which is the problem. It's not fast.

[nova finch]

Yes. But unity definitely isn't some random android app

They have their own api for this.

[heady wing]

I don't think the Unity editor has ARM builds nvm Apple m1 macs have compatibility I forgot

[nova finch]

Unity has had support for building and porting projects to android for a long time.

[humble canyon]

you would probably get a unusable framerate trying to shove a Windows install onto the quest 2

[nova finch]

It took me 3 minutes to open task manager

[sharp zinc]

bruh

[heady wing]

:|

[nova finch]

But that was a full blow native vm

That's not comparable to a single application

[sharp zinc]

facebook should just put a pci lane on the top of the headset so u can plop ur gpu in ez solutuon

[nova finch]

Pffft

I really like arm based apu's

Ultra shit fill rate

But doesn't even flinch at absurd resolutions.

Xr 2 having such a high vert limit is nice too.

Fun little device really. I have the quest 2 build of neos vr as well

[sharp zinc]

quest 2 build of neos vr?

[nova finch]

Yeah

Honestly unity is just fucked right now with some things.

Like grab pass fucking up the rendering pipeline in single-pass instances.

Fuck unity tbh.

[sharp zinc]

idk what u said but sure

[radiant osprey]

You know Neos uses Unity's rendering pipeline?

[nova finch]

@radiant osprey yes. It's stated in their git.

[dusky fog]

is there any way i could lower the file size of my avatar?

[hard snow]

Lower texture resolution, or use compression on them

Or just lower amount of polygons

@dusky fog

[azure marsh]

Are they ever gonna make quest be able to hear avatars?

[humble canyon]

if you're referring to like avatars having sound effects/music basically never because it's fixed Hardware so it can't get better

as far as how many sound sources it can handle

[azure marsh]

Ah i see

[humble canyon]

basically the problem is The Voice chat is already using up like all of the available audio sources

[azure marsh]

Oh ok

[sharp bolt]

contrary to popular belief, audio is expensive, especially on mobile hardware
see: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/audio/unity-audio-import-optimisation---getting-more-bam-for-your-ram

granted, those phones are a bit old now, but the trends are still similar

[spark mica]

thx for this matcap btw, still using it today for my fur material https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/884676464010723328/907901593440104479/unknown.png

[leaden crane]

How do people handle testing of Quest-compatible worlds without avatars in them? Do you just aim to hit the max framerate cap? Do people test with some kind of fake avatar kit?

I'm aware of the recommended draw call/geometry maximums defined by Unity but this isn't particularly helpful for my project.

[sharp zinc]

people can kinda fake the effect of players if you had a bunch of avatar models you just import into the world as players ye

you would use a quest in standalone mode and just measure the fps wit the menu

[leaden crane]

Thanks, good to know. Time to find some avatars \o/

[sharp bolt]

Keep in mind each person in an instance adds to the cpu cost for things other than rendering the avatar, such as voice, network ik, udon network sync, etc. This will at best check for your rendering budget, but will not be representative of your expected performance with actual players in the world. Best to just invite some friends into your instance.

You will also want to test to see if your cross-platform sync is working correctly with actual players if you have any networked objects/behaviours in the world.

[worldly tundra]

yes i like this too thank u

[wheat nymph]

how would i go about optimizing a VRoid skin to be quest friendly?

[humble canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK-Oky7-5m0

[minor comet]

CATS.

also, if you’re using 1.0.1, there’s a couple of key changes to the process

for example, in CATS, it’s recommended you make a texture atlas using all the materials at once, then I think use the decimation feature

if the atlas texture turns out to be too big, which I doubt it’ll be, then just downscale the atlas texture to 1280x1280

then, import the model into Unity, and then go to Materials. extract Materials, and then import the atlas texture.

Click on this singular material, click the box next to Albedo, and then drag the atlas texture into it.

If you’re familiar with PHIA’s tutorial then these locations should be familiar enough for you to extrapolate the details.

[humble canyon]

and make sure to have all the body under your clothing transparent in Vroid as it has a checkbox to automatically delete transparent triangles so you're not wasting your budget on stuff you can't see

[wheat nymph]

@minor comet @humble canyon thanks so much!

[minor comet]

say, if I have a few textures with transparency that I want to apply to the base face texture, how do I convert the transparent meshes to face textures?

(my model has a couple of small transparent meshes applied over the face and I want to apply these to the skin so it renders correctly)

[lone hawk]

make a duplicate of the face mesh, then join the desired 2d textures to the original face, and bake diffuse with blender's cycles renderer to the new face

just make sure alpha clipping is applied to the materials being used in the bake

[primal snow]

witch channel that help you fixing stuff

[shy isle]

hey im looking for helo in converting a pc avatar to quest compatible

[normal rose]

I can convert it for you if you're willing to pay

[shy isle]

I’ve found out that I can’t download a avatar from a public world

So I can’t rlly convert it

It’s ok

I’m just tryna find couple avatars

[eager pebble]

ive been working on converting this avatar to quest for a few hours now can somone help me figure out what to do

i removed the piomi shaders/dynamic bones from it and when i try to upload it it just says no camera rendering instead of showing the avatar upload menu

[plain veldt]

did you replace it with the vrchat mobile shaders tho

[eager pebble]

yes

toonlit

i removed everything that would make it pc incompatible

[plain veldt]

screenshots would help a lot, i'm struggling immensly to make my own quest compatible

[eager pebble]

got it

here

its from earlier but same problem is happening

[sharp ocean]

Have you put a camera in the unity scene if I might ask?

[eager pebble]

yup

[minor comet]

the part about mobile optimization that’s a pain is trying to fix cutout transparencies

[sharp zinc]

Can someone explain why when I tried to make my avi quest compatible it had a green tint on the shoes and shirt

[humble canyon]

because the quest shaders show vertex colors and you might have some green vertex colors attached to the avatar

[nocturne relic]

Who can create 2d expressions

[spark mica]

Paint.net

[spark mica]

Any recommended unity tool to remove them and reconfigure the mesh?

[eager pebble]

Is there anyone i can send an avatar for optimization ive had issues uploading it after following several diffrent methods of making it quest compatible

[humble canyon]

https://github.com/kurotu/VRCQuestTools

[sharp zinc]

Helloo i'm New when i play vrchat in quest 2 whzn i open menu / maybe someone change skin i think my game avec Glitch ( weird sounds )

Do you know how to fix it ?

[clear nebula]

LMFAO

dedas 1 minute ping

[gentle grotto]

vertex colour, you can use the quest tool converter from booth to remove it automatically

oh yeah, above

[tardy gull]

whats a good way to compress world file size? mine is at 90-100ish mbs rn

[edgy kraken]

download VRWorld Toolkit to examine asset sizes individually, you might be able to downsize some Normal textures

[tardy gull]

weres is that at?

[edgy kraken]

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit

[tardy gull]

i installed it but it isnt showing up in the toolbar

[edgy kraken]

Are there any errors in the console?

[tardy gull]

alot yea

[edgy kraken]

can you take a screenshot of those errors

[ashen stone]

anyone know if there is such thing as a fake transparency for quest in unity?

[humble canyon]

if you're referring to avatars no not really

[ashen stone]

oh ok

[sharp zinc]

So for quest worlds. I need to swap out all the shaders for the mobile shaders from the SDK right?

[sand mantle]

you dont have to for worlds.

[wispy epoch]

... but I'd very much recommend it!!

The mobile shaders are optimized for quest. Most other shaders are not, with some exceptions

[shut crater]

I'm trying to optimize an avatar using the Cats blender plugin for quest. I'm having an issue where when I combine the materials, the materials work for most of the model, but the undersuit is invisible. Any ideas on how to fix this?

Figured it out. The original texture used for the undersuit had transparency for some reason, and it is fixed by removing the transparency from the material

thanke anyways! 🙂

[cedar abyss]

i made an avatar for quest it is within the quest limitations but i still can't see it in quest

[sharp zinc]

you have to actually upload it to VRChat, while Android is the current active build (as opposed to PC/Windows build)

You need to upload an avatar to the PC and Android sides of the pipeline in ordrt for it to be cross compatiable

[scenic trench]

I had a quest version of an avatar that was under 10 mb, but after a recent update, it nearly doubled to 17 mb, what happened?!

[scenic trench]

also, i didn't change anything about the avatar

[waxen grove]

I just need help uploading my 3d model into quest, I don’t have a way to get unity so I’m having a lot of trouble right now

[small spade]

is it possible to have avatar stations on a fallback avatar?
I know how to set up PC avatar stations but how would you set up one for quest?

[sharp zinc]

should be the same exact way I think? Never tried tho

if the VRCSDK whines abt it and makes your performance rank go medium or above then ig ur fcked

but else if it works do tell me

[small spade]

I tried but uhh you cant have colliders on quest -w-

which are needed for chairs

why qwp

I tried using my avatar's model as a chair but it didn't work

[sharp zinc]

it automatically makes colliders on runtime for it afaik

if there r none

[small spade]

no workie qwp

could you create a prefab for one that works on quest?

I'd like to test it

[spark mica]

@sharp zinc lmfao all the visemes are gone

optimized the mesh too much

still not sure if i should do a poor model with 19k and 3 materials or an extremely mutilated one with like 8000 polys and 2 mats to get to medium :c

welp i want the ava to be seen, so here we go

optimization p*rn

who needs speech visemes

[sharp zinc]

aaaaaaa

what I do sometimes is seperate the face gemoetry, move it to a seperate collection and disable the collection. Thats so I can decimate every other part of the avatar

[spark mica]

ooo clever

but the model had no proper mouth to begin with anyway

i just rotate the head when the char talks now, has an interesting effect lol

like into the neck and forward via a flap thingie

[radiant osprey]

Medium, did not use as p*rn

[spark mica]

Hey, removing too many polys makes the model looks like shit

I also like my custom materials

[sharp zinc]

well. Yes. hhahahahha

[spark mica]

I tried playing with lower polys in cats and everything else made the limbs look weird and especially the extremely lower ones were just a frikken ps2 filter

Gonna need to come up with some special mouth movement shader now since it ate all my viseme shapekeys and stuff

Like maybe an material replacer, size transformer etc that reacts to viseme changes

[sharp zinc]

ahhh I understand. Did you do the research in older games? (like, finding those products with the 3D style you are looking for and find the best example of lower limbs.

because sometimes by just looking at something really close to the image in your head you can come with an idea

or I'm not understanding you?

[spark mica]

I got inspired by this watchmen character https://youtu.be/JDR5JVrXBak

You can checkout #avatar-showcase about what the mask currently looks like

[sharp zinc]

ah the best haha

ok!

[spark mica]

Cant really use a custom shader for quest so id need to make different materials and swap them or create a blendshape that that transforms the mask

Would having materials affect the performance?

I wanted to use the actual mouth shapekeys but since they been reduced to ashes with the mouth bones i gave up there

[radiant osprey]

Not if you do it right. Mine is 7.5k with accessories on quest

And it's 1 material too

[spark mica]

Problem is the one i chose wasnt very optimized before and started at 32k polys with an unneccessary high detailed face and hair mesh

And also had 5 materials where only like 3 were actually used

[radiant osprey]

You can atlas all of them though

[rocky kelp]

How do I make avatars quest compatible?

[humble canyon]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/cross-platform-setup

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-optimization

[fierce shoal]

anyone know how to fix these textures on quest shaders?

the one that does work is this one

[sharp zinc]

Use a old sdk

The new ones are kinda jank

[fierce shoal]

i am currently using the 3.0 SDK

[sharp zinc]

I can send you a old one of the 3.0

[fierce shoal]

oh so i can keep the 3.0 i just need the older versions with better shaders?

[sharp zinc]

Eh I have my secret tricks with shaders

we keep this in dms

[fierce shoal]

aight bet

[ashen lichen]

o?

[sharp zinc]

They are using either 1.) a modified VRCSDK and/or 2.) an old VRCSDK that for some odd reason allowed transparency into builds of quest avatars

[radiant osprey]

Most likely 1, which is against TOS

Also why they went to DMs

No versions of the 3.0 SDK ever supported transparency for quest

[sharp zinc]

so the rumor is just a ruse in of itself as a coverup

clever

[clear nebula]

use the knife tool in blender and cut out the black bits

[sharp zinc]

2 because quest shaders are shit

realistic avatars are litterly impossible with them

a cutout shader will be more better than modeling every little strand of hair

if I used quest shaders my avatars would be crashers or look like shit

my newer avatars I still work on have toggles for the shader to be turned into quest shaders

example cutout to matcap or standard lite

I make the shaders for my avatars specificly as optimised as I can outside the quest garbadge most of us have to suffer from

unlike most Ive studdied mobile hardware for the last 3 years

I know what will work and what wont

if a shader takes 2fps off performance I wont use it

if it does any less it isnt a problem

cutout shaders are risky but it depends what else it does

the shaders I use do not more worse than standard lite

I am against some pc shaders but it has to be changed with limits

realistic as in like daz 3d looking models?

realistic as in rips from games like dbd and resident evil

I spend atleast 2 hours optimising them

oh and they have their hair in a way that typically require cutout shaders?

yes

rip

[humble canyon]

yes because they're not modeled for mobile phones in mind

[sharp zinc]

theres cutout in nintendo ds games

[radiant osprey]

The fact that you're not using the VRC-provided shaders properly leads me to believe this is false

[humble canyon]

a Nintendo DS and a Android phone have different rendering characteristics

and also the DS is not user-generated content

[sharp zinc]

don't we all love user generated content

ever made avatars before it was patched @radiant osprey

[radiant osprey]

Ever notice the performance before it was patched

[humble canyon]

like someone could generate a model in vrchat that 5000 quads stacked in front of each other that are all transparent and the overdraw on that would give the quest a headache

[sharp zinc]

ever noticed my stuff?

[radiant osprey]

Have you benchmarked or profiled any of your stuff? How many ms of render time do they use?

[humble canyon]

I have not

[sharp zinc]

better try my stuff out then to see my point

[humble canyon]

I don't have a quest so I literally can't

[sharp zinc]

thats the problem

also @radiant osprey I made a demo showcasing with and ithout vrchats limits running on quest 2 hardware

I havent done quest 1 because some pc user decided to brick it

[radiant osprey]

Where is this demo

[humble canyon]

and have you tried your avatars with like 10 of them on the map with the avatars overlapping in your line of sight

[sharp zinc]

yep performmance was not more than 2 fps lower than with standard lite

also my demo is on my trash yt channel @radiant osprey

[humble canyon]

how about with a mirror on

[sharp zinc]

ever heard of dont put mirror on no matter what your avatar is?

[humble canyon]

vrchat has to worry about the worst case scenario and they allow mirrors on the quest

[sharp zinc]

they need a lite mirror then quest would be completley fine

[humble canyon]

they are Avatar only mirrors on vrchat

[sharp zinc]

yes but the mirror itself needs more work done

[humble canyon]

so what would you do to the mirrors?

[sharp zinc]

following cameras

[radiant osprey]

Looking at the demo, this doesn't really prove anything

[sharp zinc]

who even are you?

spicy

look all I wanna do right now is have a merry christmas

[radiant osprey]

VRChat enforces these rules for shaders and stuff in order to keep up performance in as many situations as possible. This demo doesn't show any hard data, framerates, or performance tests in any situations. Of course quest is capable of all effects and shader types, but VRC enforces their own shaders in order to keep the system from dying in 40+ player instances.

Quest can't handle high fill rates very well, as well as other GPU-related effects. As you're literally running on a phone GPU

[sharp zinc]

their shaders dont do shit

[radiant osprey]

Any evidence for that?

Because I can actually pinpoint many areas of which their shaders work as optimized for quest hardware as it is

[sharp zinc]

its 4 in the morning

you want me to be shattered?

I have to message people bout their presents

[radiant osprey]

I want you to be optimized so you can keep everyone's game running well. There's a reason that people say quest runs like crap

[sharp zinc]

ever seen what the new ui did?

nameplates take 50% of the performance

[radiant osprey]

That's for PC as well

And they always have

[sharp zinc]

wait what

[radiant osprey]

It's not 50%, but it does take about 5-10 fps

[sharp zinc]

why not just make them opaque tf

that is a questionable descision

for quest at least

[radiant osprey]

For comfort. A bunch of solid bricks of text and images would clutter your screen super fast

[sharp zinc]

listen kid Ive had enough of your shit let me just get some sleep

[radiant osprey]

I'm not stopping you, just trying to educate you

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sharp zinc]

Im in university where are you?

[humble canyon]

and for reference vrchat cannot do Application space warp because that would require unity2021 and the universal render pipeline which would involve breaking all of the content in the game

[radiant osprey]

Teaching people how to code as a profession. I've been using Unity for over 8 years

[sharp zinc]

finding that hard to belive

[radiant osprey]

Well you're free to believe what you want

I'm just trying to give out some advice on optimization

From a semi-professional standpoint

[sharp zinc]

I have my own tricks

[radiant osprey]

There's always a reason behind any change the development team makes. They don't just force no transparency for fun

[humble canyon]

https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/unity/po-art-direction/

https://i.gyazo.com/8ab476ed9e38e314107780ee76203e28.png

[radiant osprey]

Oh btw, using old files from older SDKs is against TOS as it constitutes as modifying the SDK

[sharp zinc]

:I

soo whens neos quest port coming?

[radiant osprey]

I imagine in many years since it has trouble running on PC

[humble canyon]

probably not for a while and its performance is even worse even with a gaming PC

because basically like the optimization people do on vrchat maps you can't do on neos

[sharp zinc]

welp guess who wont be sleeping tonight

[humble canyon]

well that's your own fault for keep talking to us

[radiant osprey]

xD

[humble canyon]

text chat is asynchronous communication so you can always bicker with us tomorrow

[sharp zinc]

ಠ_ಠ

[sharp zinc]

hey!

I have a question

I have had a quest 1 for almost 3 years now and I was wondering if there is a significant improvement with the quest 2 because I keep crashing and my battery keeps draining quickly or are there any settings that help performance

[sharp zinc]

its got more vram I believe so thats a p big upgrade for a game like vrchat

and the battery problem is probably due to just having it for so long

and if you ever leave it in the charger past 100% then thats also not helping

are there any sidequest settings or something

I might get the headset coming out next year

[celest tapir]

Can we buy vr chat plus I’m having issues with it?

[sour kestrel]

just got a Quest 2 a couple days ago. Trying to play VR chat, but cant go into any other world without a crash, and when i bring up the side menu and click "avatars" , it just takes me to loading screen with the 3 dots, foreverrr...

open to any helpful suggestions

[sharp zinc]

dont go in public worlds

[distant geyser]

Y

[sharp zinc]

And be alone forever? Kinda ruins the point of the game

But it’s not any one person’s fault. Nope, it’s tens of thousands…

At least

[cold sluice]

Just don’t have everyone’s avatar on

[rare cove]

One thing I like for quest, is the option to add dynamic bones, it be nice to finally not have static movement

[heady wing]

Dynamic hones will never come due to their poor performance, the VRChat team is working on an alternative that performs a lot better and will likely come to Quest

[rare cove]

Oh, makes sense, but what about avatar sounds? Wouldn’t they be able to have the input for that?

[heady wing]

Sounds also don't perform that well, and the budget for those has to go to people speaking

[rare cove]

Ok then

[heady wing]

Like, the og Quest could handle ~12, the Quest 2 is ~24

[rare cove]

What about recording on the camera in vrchat, that just have to be possible

[heady wing]

Give everyone sounds and suddenly the amount of people the quest can handle is halved

Again, performance, recording is a lot more demanding than taking a photo, and the Quest does give you ways to record things, so there's already alternatives

[rare cove]

Wow, kinda disappointing, but that’s quest for ya. The optimization for quest is dogshit, they just simply made it preform like it like that, probably because it’s wireless. But that doesn’t explain how other game systems have good optimized settings. But I’m just sayin, don’t want to write the whole bee movie script

Once again the headset, not VRchat

[heady wing]

User-generated content, unless it has strict, enforced limits (which people will bypass), will always have performance issues

Plus, it's mobile hardware

[rare cove]

You’re talking to the people who made Facebook lol

But there’s different types of headsets too that run better than quests some how?

[heady wing]

doesn’t explain how other game systems have good optimized settings
Because those games are built to have good performance on the hardware they target

[heady wing]

The Quest is actually significantly underclocked

[rare cove]

Well that’s too bad for me

At this point, idk if I’m mad or confused

[simple meadow]

Yeah, I've had a Quest 1 for at least a year now (perception of time absolutely sucks) and I recently got the Quest 2, and the amount of performance boosts that I got was awesome! I would highly recommend you getting it if you can. :)

Also on the note of SideQuest options: You can set your GPU/CPU levels to both 4 and it can give you a few extra FPS, but trying to change the texture resolution I don't think works, but I could be mistaken. (Tested it on a Quest 2 btw)

[patent ridge]

changing the resolution does work but it can make ur game a bit laggier

[hardy horizon]

I feel like mixing avatar sounds with speech of the avatar user would work. Reduce the amount of processing necessary for 3D audio, with only minor overhead in mixing the audio.

Having an "instance sound limit" with a "sound priority ranking" based on safety settings first, followed by distance to user & playback age would also be a good way to handle it. — Prioritize speech over sounds, then those of higher safety based on user settings, then prioritize sounds based on approximate distance to user, rounded up to nearest [x] meters, followed by creation time (oldest first).

Also having a set fall-off for quest could also remedy a lot of the issues. Ignore creator provided spacial audio values, and use a conservative set of values that require a player to be fairly close to the audio source.

If all 3 were combined, I'd fail to see how that'd create any significant performance issues over no-sound.

It's confusing too, because the game actually has a sound option in safety settings. And particles too. The only thing the game disables is the shaders option. — If sounds are unavailable you'd think it'd also be disabled in UI.

—

In general, it feels like VRC' current restrictions for Quest creators are not only vague at times, or confusing, but also "the easy way out". Creators who wish to optimize, and take care for content get penalized for wanting to utilize certain features.

Meanwhile, users who don't care are literally uploading worlds that crash my headset, make me go cross-eyed, have no textures, freeze VRC, and more. Nothing seems to be stopping people who want to upload utter junk to VRC on Quest, and VRC neither provides ability to, nor requires testing, of VRC Quest content.

[sharp zinc]

if u make a vrchat canny on their feedback boards then you can suggest better limits

since they look at feedback boards and not discord for changing stuff with the game

[heady wing]

Those are a lot of good points, and they could be done, but you wouldn't be able to have much audio with the Quest's 10mb limit anyway. I think allowing people who put effort into optimising certain parts should be allowed liberties in others (example: excellent except tri count (of say, 25k) still runs better than most very poor avatars)

And just a minor correction:

It's confusing too, because the game actually has a sound option in safety settings. And particles too.
You can use particles on Quest avatars, just no transparency (so no one uses them), and I feel like the audio option will be removed in the second part of the UI update.

[hardy horizon]

That's confusing because it's not documented anywhere. I've tried for 2 days to get a particle effect working on my avatar and it doesn't render at all.

Audio can also be compressed at build time. VRCSDK could provide the option to override the audio format, bitrate, and channels, downmixing to mono, at a set bitrate and frequency.

[civic compass]

i need a gerudo model
from zelda that can be seen on quest

[hardy horizon]

Ask in #quest-general this is the development optimization channel.

[hardy horizon]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/quest-creators/p/offer-avatar-sound-mixing-on-quest

That's one suggestion down.

[hardy horizon]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/quest-creators/p/provide-updated-functioning-toon-shader

And that makes 2.

[sharp zinc]

Simple fix - matcap lit

[sage zephyr]

Hello! So I've been having this issue a lot recently. When I import my PNGs into Unity, two of the three work, but one of them, (The main body atlas) doesn't show a thumbnail, or allow me to change the import settings. Does anyone know what's been going on? I'd love to know!

[radiant isle]

Hey I'm getting a quest this week, can anyone recommend some headphones/mic to go with it?
I've got a hyperx cloud 2 for my pc, but that looks too big to go with the quest? idk

[tulip fractal]

the normal mic isnt that bad tbh

[radiant isle]

Oh didn’t realise it comes with a mic ty

[tulip fractal]

and it has built in speakers

so

[ornate spoke]

you cant use other mics bc the aux plug doenst support it only the built in one

i think the developers should add Aplication SpaceWarp to VrChat quest because im experiencing loads of frame drops in almost every world and ot would be amazing to see a 70% performance boost for VrChat

[humble canyon]

that would require them to upgrade to a new Unity version and break basically all the contents in the game because Aplication SpaceWarp uses a completely different rendering pipeline then vrchat uses

[hardy horizon]

I was always under the impression it supported TRRS headsets, but testing myself after reading this im shocked it seems to... not. At the very least, it does seem to use only the internal mic. Unsure if this is intentional though.

[hardy horizon]

1. Check the file permissions in Explorer. Compare to the working textures.
2. Ensure it's actually a PNG (file extension != file type); might be getting saved as another type with PNG extension.

[dusky stone]

How do people get those cool materials that move and stuff on quest?

Like noise materials

[radiant osprey]

Probably a matcap

[dusky stone]

So like they would make it in blender of something

[radiant osprey]

Shaders are all Unity

[dusky stone]

Then how do they do it

[radiant osprey]

In the material in Unity

[dusky stone]

That’s what I’m talking about

How do they get it?

[radiant osprey]

They probably just apply a noise texture to the matcap shader

[dusky stone]

And how would they do that😂

[radiant osprey]

Find a noise texture, and simply apply it to the "Matcap" slot in the Matcap Lite material of your avatar

[dusky stone]

Wait then how do they get it to move and stuff

[radiant osprey]

Matcap is a reflection

[dusky stone]

Oh damn I’m stupid

Thanks for the help

[sage zephyr]

I think I might've figured out my problem. The PNGs weren't originally saved on the same computer that I used to make avatars.

[sage zephyr]

Thank you for answering, though!

[hardy horizon]

Is there any way to improve an SDK3 model's ranking when it has changeable clothes and objects?

My model has a max poly of roughly 28K, 3 mesh renderers, & 7 material slots at the moment, but:

• about 7K, and 2 slots of that is in 2 props sharing the same mesh, which only show with a specific gesture.
• around another 2K, 1 skinned mesh renderer, and 1 slot of that is in a toggleable clothing option.

Leaving sub-20K poly, 2 renderers, and 1 slot being the actual model that is shown under "normal" conditions.

I understand that when all of those are active at once, it'll hit performance harder, but I'm also wanting to add more outfits that are directly interchangeable from the action menu. — That is, future additions will be mutually exclusive.

The way the SDK seems to handle it now, it would appear even if objects are not shown under normal circumstances, the SDK still counts it, ranking the avatar pretty poorly.

The avatar seems to have no issues in small groups, and I've never really noticed issues with it compared to lower-poly models, and I can't exactly decimate the geometry any more than I have without breaking the model.

But I don't feel comfortable with the avatar being ranked VP in this state, just in case future changes to VRC remove these avatars.

[hexed tangle]

This is something I have a similar question to!

I was able to get by for now, having a single piece of clothing toggleable and two polys away from the 15k limit for medium (autodisplay) ranking.

Definitely start with atlasing your textures. That will cut down on material slots, but only gets you down to one material slot per mesh.

My question is, is there a way to combine all these meshes into one, and still have them toggleable? In a way where they still are considered one mesh & one material slot? I can think of really jank ways to do this, but not sure if there's a proper method.

[heady wing]

but I'm also wanting to add more outfits that are directly interchangeable from the action menu
Don't
Just make separate avatars for separate outfits

You also won't have to deal with the 10mb limit nearly as much if you do that

[hardy horizon]

That seems to defeat some of the purpose of SDK3 avatars.

[heady wing]

You don't need to have 10 outfits on one avatar

[hexed tangle]

You also shouldn't be limited to uploading an avatar 20 times when you want to make a change that updates all of them. That doesn't really feel like a solution

Don't offer support if your answer is "you dont"

[hardy horizon]

For atlasing textures, I would, but the problem with that is that I need emissive materials for my secondary materials, but matcap shading for the base model.

VRChat Mobile MatCap Lit doesn't allow for an emissions map. So I have to use secondary slots on both the primary model & its primary outfit, inflating the material slots by 2.

The latter, from what I can tell, that is a "no". I am testing to see if objects need to be skinned meshes or not; I converted my props to filtered meshes as part of the base model, and have them as children of the appropriate bone. — If this works, I will have successfully reduced myself into "medium" territory on the mesh rendering front. The only things pushing me into Very Poor will then just be the mesh count (primarily) and the material slots (secondarily), neither which I can really "fix".

[hexed tangle]

Is there a reason you need matcap for the base model?

[hardy horizon]

(Proper) Toon shading.

[hexed tangle]

Checks out

[hardy horizon]

Eyes are emissive though, as well as a pendant on the avatar.

(Essentially they're "unlit")

[hexed tangle]

You got your polycount under 15k?

[heady wing]

My question is, is there a way to combine all these meshes into one, and still have them toggleable?
As for this, yes.

1. Blendshapes, where the size of the prop is either scale 0, or 1, but I wouldn't recommend this as the more vertices there are, the worse it'll perform.
2. Bone scaling, same as the above, but it performs better.

[hexed tangle]

This was the jank method I was thinking of, haha. Doing that doesn't feel right, but it definitely would work.

Bone scaling would definitely be a better choice there

I have some of those to spare

[heady wing]

Some people actually split off meshes with blendshapes for performance reasons

Like, the face is separate from the rest of the body so calculations aren't done for the whole mesh, just the face

[hexed tangle]

Interesting. Well my model is not 100k+ polys so I can't imagine i'd get much performance benefit from that, but i can see where that might come in

[hardy horizon]

Sadly, the best I could do for the "base" avatar in its current "base" outfit is around 18K, 19K. Not enough for Medium, but maybe enough for Poor? There's not exactly enough feedback on what values put you where in the SDK.

[hexed tangle]

Actually, there is!

[hardy horizon]

That's actually kinda clever...

[hardy horizon]

Where?

[hexed tangle]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#minimum-displayed-performance-rank

While "poor" will still require most players to manually enable your model, users are able to change their setting to enable poor models by default

But if your main model is already at 19k, you might be SOL

[hardy horizon]

Oh that's why I couldn't find it. It wasn't in the Quest documentation.

[hexed tangle]

Yea it's not referred to anywhere in the quest docs for some reason

[hardy horizon]

That documentation needs some work, I tell you hwhat

[heady wing]

Yeah some of it's quite outdated

Espeically on the Quest side of things

[hexed tangle]

I find it really funny ||and annoying|| that bounds size can make your model "very poor" but the game will still display it by default if it fits the other categories.

[heady wing]

It doesn't necessarily cause performance issues in of itself, so it's understandable why they did that

[hexed tangle]

True, but then. Remove the bounds size as a limitation

[heady wing]

True

[hardy horizon]

Ive noticed. I still have trouble getting particle systems to work. Apparently its a thing, still, but the particle shaders in the SDK are removed.

[hexed tangle]

Why specify what makes it good, medium if it doesn't actually do anything. lol

[hexed tangle]

No: Particle Systems All Particle Systems removed

(unless this is out of date)

[heady wing]

That's if it goes over the maximum performance rank

[hardy horizon]

Ive gotten mixed info on this.

[hexed tangle]

Oh yeah this is right. My bad

[hardy horizon]

Oh wait so if your avatar is very poor they shut off particles???

So it's useless even trying...

[heady wing]

If it's very poor (or poor if you set it to that) on particles only

[hexed tangle]

Yes. If it ranks poor you can have 200 particles active, 400 mesh particle active polys

medium and better have it completely nixed

[hardy horizon]

Im confused now.

[hexed tangle]

see above

[hardy horizon]

Short answer: Will ANY particle system work on a "Very Poor" avatar?

[hexed tangle]

I'm gonna go with yes because I feel like I have seen it in the wild, but i'm not sure how factual that is

[heady wing]

You'd have to manually show the avatar anyway, so idk why it wouldn't

[hardy horizon]

It's looking like No, since you can't set the minimum to Very Poor on quest, but I have seen some in the wild I swear do.

[hexed tangle]

You can't set the minimum, but if you manually enable their avatar it should display

[hardy horizon]

Does this reflect on your own avatar?

[heady wing]

Well, you can the minimum display rank, but only up to poor

[hexed tangle]

That wouldn't make sense, the whole point is that it's autodisabled because it's not poor

it's outside the bounds of being considered poor and thus manually enabling it allows it to exceed those bounds uncapped

[heady wing]

I think I misread

[hexed tangle]

Not sure what you mean. like if the avatar you're using is very poor, can you see it?

[hexed tangle]

I see what you mean. Yeah the autodisplay maximimum is poor, however if you manually enable a users avatar that's ranked verypoor, it will render.

It will just always be blocked by default, you can't autoenable them.

[heady wing]

I did edit my message to make it clearer, but yeah, that's what I meant

[hardy horizon]

Yeah.

[hexed tangle]

Just logically speaking I would say yes. It's not like you get an option for yourself

But regardless, end goal is to get to poor ranking since they may not be compatible at all with quest in the future

[heady wing]

Whatever you use, it will always display (unless it's a PC avatar)
Even if you somehow upload over the 10mb limit, it will still show for you, but others can't see it

[hexed tangle]

That's true. If you set a PCONLY avatar and switch to quest you'll show up as a robot.

That also might happen if you bypass the file limit. But I imagine that's not possible

[heady wing]

From what I've heard from others, it'll occasionally let >10mb through, but other's can't manually show the avatar, and only you can see it

I've never experienced it though, and only know through reports of people wondering why others can't see it in #user-support-old

[hexed tangle]

Yeah i've fought that 10mb limit hard with my 8k textures so I know how it is....

[hardy horizon]

My guess is the upload is somehow compressed in that it flies under the 10MB limit, but on download, the package exceeds 10MB on decompress.

Then again, before world limits were increased to 100MB, there were worlds being uploaded to Quest that were over 40MB. You'd get an error message saying the world was over limit and get kicked back home.

Even now I've encountered worlds that are over the new limit. So something is off.

[heady wing]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

probably

[hardy horizon]

It's my best guess. Unity compresses textures and stuff, but I imagine the actual asset package is compressed further for reduced network load.

Basically like putting a JPG in a ZIP folder.

[dusky stone]

Anyone know how to make particles look normal and not blocky on quest

[sharp zinc]

use mesh particles instead

[dusky stone]

How do i do that

[sharp zinc]

load your img for ur particle into blender and cutout the geometry in a way that you could have it be opaque and not transparent and look fine

then use that as the mesh particle

[dusky stone]

i have not used blender ever

[sharp zinc]

time to learn

no time like the present

[hexed tangle]

do you want the good news or bad news?

good news: ||blender is free||
bad news: ||blender is a bitch to learn||

[cold sluice]

Truee

[sharp zinc]

I've saved one that goes past the limit, and if someone else copy's it then they can see it too

[fiery flicker]

Which one is the best , air link or virtual desktop?

[flat granite]

virtual desktop air link u need good good wifi

[fiery flicker]

so the best is virtual desktop?