avatar-quest

[fathom oxide]

oh god no were arent execting that i play on pc and quest but these avatars srsly need transparency

[silent horizon]

guys the quest might as well be the nokia of modern day game hardware without it being unbeakable

[green saddle]

Transparency adds up REALLY QUICKLY
It's not gonna happen

[rich geyser]

The point being a quest cannot handle transparency

[fathom oxide]

but it has for years

[proper basalt]

it can?

[green saddle]

Why do you need transparency anyway?

[silent horizon]

it can but doesnt do it well

[green saddle]

I mean technically yeah but it's not great

[calm monolith]

but it can..?

[jagged sequoia]

at a frame rate at vrchat considers acceptable

[green saddle]

I don't see how this needs transparency

[fathom oxide]

its called hair bb

[silent horizon]

thats like saying my 2014 macbook air can handle subnautica (it can but i have to play the game at 10 fps)

[fathom oxide]

it has strands

[daring dust]

Because it looks garbage without it and it goes over the pollygone limits modeling every thing that would need it

[daring dust]

It has for years

[silent horizon]

like just cause something can be handled doesnt mean it should be

handled and perform well with are two different things

[jagged sequoia]

if it's helpful for reference here's how Harley Quinn looks in fortnite which uses no transparency https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fortnite/images/5/51/Harley_Quinn_-_Outfit_-_Fortnite.png/revision/latest?cb=20200205200914

[green saddle]

Eh I tend not to use transparency even for PC stuff soo
I totally get it's needed sometimes
Like curly hair looks better with it
and a lot of people use it for blush/eyelashes but like you can do those without it

[calm monolith]

erm

[fathom oxide]

ohhh wowww see the diffrence is that model has way more polygons

so it doesnt require transparency

[jagged sequoia]

fortnite runs on mobile phones

[green saddle]

I doubt it's that much more
Fortnite models are quite good poly wise iirc

[proper basalt]

which will need some modeling to do?

[daring dust]

Witch is not what we wanted and it has wayyyy more pollygones and we would want a hairly that doesn't look like that

[fathom oxide]

and transparency used to run on quests

[jagged sequoia]

you can probably upload that Harley Quinn and not be very poor on Quest

[proper basalt]

fortnite on mobile ALSO uses transparency

[fathom oxide]

and fortnite uses transparencies for mobile too

[daring dust]

If they wanted the fortnight harly they would have used it????

[fathom oxide]

well if i want it to look like a ogre😭 i dont make avatars but ive seen the being made

[daring dust]

Also fortnight hairly is uglyyy

[fathom oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/trisha-paytas-meltdown-scary-pumpkin-gif-25034608

[proper basalt]

oh!

[calm monolith]

shrek

[proper basalt]

i agree honestly

[fathom oxide]

i mean it looks fine

but they also use transparency for mobile

[daring dust]

Yea but the arcum games look way better

[silent horizon]

ive ripped stuff from fortnite before cause i was curious what the topology of the clones was (its actually really good and im annoyed that EA does such a shit job with topology on theyre clone models) and the polygon count for fornite avis is roughly 50k polygons ish

roughly

[rich geyser]

and its made by professional game devs in an environment they can strictly control the overdraw in
its not made by a bunch of amateurs who just picked up modeling and avatar creation 4 weeks ago

[fathom oxide]

aswell as the shaders that vrc def cant handle on quest

[jagged sequoia]

fortnite does have Lods

[silent horizon]

that too

[green saddle]

Yeah where they have control
VRChat has tons and tons of people who have no idea what their doing making avatars
If everyone or most people uploaded quest avatars with transparency it would probably tank FPS

[fathom oxide]

well thats exactly what poeple do minus the tanking of fps

in fact if it ever happens did yall know you can turn peoples avatars off?

https://tenor.com/view/glee-quinn-fabray-smile-cute-dianna-agron-gif-16973734

[proper basalt]

you load in with avis on fallback anyway

[calm monolith]

isnt this a default setting too for like new players

[fathom oxide]

yup!

[fathom oxide]

yes!

[green saddle]

1. VRChat stuff already tanks the FPS way more than if people optimized just a little bit more
   Like.. VRChat is known for poor performance
2. wdym "well that's exactly what people do" most people don't upload quest avatars with transparency

[jagged sequoia]

https://www.fortniteintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SwitchAndroidWalls-1024x571.png checking a comparison with a PC and a mobile fortnite Avatar does show less transparency on the mobile

[fathom oxide]

oh honey ALOT do

ive seen so many avatars on quest all i ever see on other people are avatars on quest with transparency

[daring dust]

Hunny fortnight is baked on mobile

[fathom oxide]

i havent seen one without in so long

[green saddle]

I don't believe you but I also haven't used Quest standalone for a bit
But everytime I have transparency has been really rare

[calm monolith]

so like the phone becomes a grill

[fathom oxide]

the you must b staying in private worlds

[jagged sequoia]

Quest public worlds would be quite unpleasant to hang out in

[daring dust]

and you can always tell what avatar was made with a modded sdk and what was made with the original sdk because the original sdk avatars SUCK

[proper basalt]

no baked as in it's low quality and super optimized

[fathom oxide]

still shows transparency tho

[daring dust]

Exactly

[fathom oxide]

thats the devs created turning off avatars

[proper basalt]

like disabling them

[fathom oxide]

Black Cat, Murder 4, Mmd Home, BlackOut, Among Us, Prismic Avatar Search,

Vrc Home

[jagged sequoia]

I would never touch any of those with a 10-foot pole in a public instance

[fathom oxide]

they are some of vrc most popular worlds

[daring dust]

Fr

[jagged sequoia]

yes that's why I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot Pole

[fathom oxide]

understandable why you wouldnt go

[calm monolith]

( i havent been in a public instance of them)

[fathom oxide]

but if you guys would look into this you would see

[daring dust]

Ok but other people do

[jagged sequoia]

I rather not get shouted at by 12-year-olds

[fathom oxide]

thats a fair point

[proper basalt]

And do you guys even know what you're talking about with transparency? Its clear you guys barely have knowledge about what ur saying and only try to copy what is being told by the big guys...

[calm monolith]

oh !

[fathom oxide]

but pretty much every world ive been in along with probably 90% of the community has been in worlds just with all transparency

in fact in ran so smooth and normal i just assumed it was allowed

[jagged sequoia]

every Quest headset is identical so benchmarks from meta and vrchat themselves would be accurate

[proper basalt]

stole my line, only added a space between..../j

[fathom oxide]

i was shocked at how good it looked and how it ran so smooth

[calm monolith]

i stole it from someone else.........

[jagged sequoia]

I suppose one difference would be what you and vrchat considers acceptable frame rate

[calm monolith]

where i can move without being stuck in place for 5 hours

[fathom oxide]

it kinda seems like the devs dont get on quest standalone

[jagged sequoia]

they do have Quest headsets to test with

[fathom oxide]

well so far after loading into to vrc the game runs the exact same😭

[daring dust]

Exactly

[rich geyser]

IIRC apps on quest store need to hit a minimum framerate (45?) in order to be listed on the store

(on average)

[calm monolith]

then there's those laggy ah rooms

[jagged sequoia]

so another words they can't tolerate the terrible avatars too much or lose VRchat all together on Quest

[proper basalt]

they expect avatar creators to model out the transparency, or cutout, like that is going to be more laggy. Quest can handle transparency they just tryna deny it

[rich geyser]

ofc when youre dealing with user generated content its difficult to always measure, but I'd assume they do their own benchmarks to hit these numbers

[fathom oxide]

but why did they have to update it even tho it ran smoothly and was on quest before?

[jagged sequoia]

no they would more expect you to pick a art style that actually works with the mobile Hardware

[calm monolith]

quest graphics may suck but they can and will handle transparency😭

[fathom oxide]

bc that is the least of the complaints for vrc

[proper basalt]

girl what are you on about? use 3ds models?

[calm monolith]

2ds

[proper basalt]

RIGHT

[jagged sequoia]

you could do better than 3ds while still not being very poor

[rich geyser]

Yes you are expected to make concessions on your avatars because the hardware you are using is limited. I feel like this is a point thats being missed. Like I'm not gonna have a whole ass wardrobe of toggles on my avatar if I intend to hit good rated

[fathom oxide]

in fac it looks like this update made the lag even worse

[spare summit]

yeah no. quest 2 cant handle transparency very well, thats just a fact

[jagged sequoia]

yes and even the PC folks don't seem to get that at times

[spare summit]

• this

[daring dust]

Not really...

[proper basalt]

sigh

[fathom oxide]

but it has i was just on a transparent avatar last night and was having fun and it ran smoothly

[daring dust]

My quest ran more then fine with it

[fathom oxide]

and then this happened

[daring dust]

I'm sorry

But she looks so bad now

[jagged sequoia]

what frame rate were you getting

[proper basalt]

just a little larger. not a lot, were you exaggerating?

[calm monolith]

even she looks depressed because of this update

[jagged sequoia]

it would be 1/3 larger file size because you have to store a whole extra Channel

[daring dust]

A stable framrate.

[spare summit]

if you take into account the quest 2's upload limits, no i wasnt.

[fathom oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/santana-lopez-naya-rivera-gif-9222375

[jagged sequoia]

that does not answer my question without frame rate numbers this can get into the you're just tolerating bad frame rate

[spare summit]

honestly just use better avatars

"waaaa i refuse to use optimized avatars give me back my modded sdk" shut up

[rich geyser]

source btw
https://developer.oculus.com/resources/vrc-quest-performance-1/

[fathom oxide]

i dont think there are any left so many servers are blowing up with the whole update thing

[jagged sequoia]

this is the only place I've heard anything about this

[daring dust]

The only good avatars by your standards are the avatars that look like a cardboard box

[proper basalt]

cause you're only here

[jagged sequoia]

I do hang out in some Avatar maker servers

[fathom oxide]

well you also dont go to public instances so

[calm monolith]

the amazon boxes

[rich geyser]

what does public instances have to do with this 😭

[fathom oxide]

what😭

[spare summit]

thats kind of what u implied??

[rich geyser]

I thought we were talking about people complaining about avatar creation in discord servers?

[fathom oxide]

alot of people are complaining in vrc and in discord servers

[proper basalt]

why are you putting words in her mouth? calm down

[fathom oxide]

not servers for avatar creating but in general vrc servers

[spare summit]

???? i was asking a question jesus christ

[fathom oxide]

alright lets chill yall lets just talk

[calm monolith]

like hangout ones where people be wearing random avatars

[fathom oxide]

yeah kinda

[daring dust]

I was running with a 50 framrate how was that bad with transparency???

[proper basalt]

u seem heated

[spare summit]

im not..

[jagged sequoia]

thanks for clarifying as I've had some folks go oh 20 frames per second is okay in vr

[proper basalt]

20 is me getting a headache

[daring dust]

Actually ever since the update I've been runing on 40????

[calm monolith]

tbh idk my frame rate in vrchat

🧍

[fathom oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/glee-quinn-fabray-what-jealous-shocked-gif-16288056

[calm monolith]

😢

[spare summit]

honestly i think folks r overreacting

[spare summit]

ok?

[daring dust]

Well you must not be playing on quest???

[spare summit]

we saw

[spare summit]

i do???

[opaque canopy]

wow i sure wonder why this channel is suddenly active

[calm monolith]

i wonder why🤔

[daring dust]

Then you should understand that the only good avatars that are "good quality" are not the best looking what so ever

[fathom oxide]

but we have been saying that quest has handled it and even shown that it does😭

[jagged sequoia]

basically new update broke modded SDK shaders on quest

[proper basalt]

quest transparency stuff

[spare summit]

u havent shown anything though....? youve just said what frames u were getting

[daring dust]

We have you just dropped in mid convo

???

[calm monolith]

😶

[fathom oxide]

im not on my headset i was on a while when i first heard about the update

but seems like this update is breaking more than its fixing

[daring dust]

Exactly

[opaque canopy]

on the topic of quest how's the new loading screen look

[daring dust]

I was running 50 frames and now I'm running 40

[quaint pollen]

ive been having problems with some of my friends avatars

[fathom oxide]

its ok

[quaint pollen]

they look really terrible now

[daring dust]

The is update made shit worse

[calm monolith]

and uglier

[daring dust]

Exactly

[proper basalt]

i've been hearing complaints from questie friends

[daring dust]

Fr

[quaint pollen]

why is the transparency broken?

im so confused

[fathom oxide]

same

[calm monolith]

'questie'😭

[fathom oxide]

ig its because its illegal?

[proper basalt]

new update for modded sdk

[quaint pollen]

but how is it bad?

[jagged sequoia]

because transparency was only possible using illegal modded sdks and the new update seems to have broken those

[daring dust]

Exactly

It's not even bad

[quaint pollen]

isnt it a good thing

[quaint pollen]

but why

[calm monolith]

i lowkey think they knew what they were doing

[rich geyser]

So do you guys know why transparency and over rendering is actually bad?

[spare summit]

bc 1. its well known that transparency impacts performance and 2. bc it requires modded sdks to even get it ingame

[fathom oxide]

they said quest cant handle it but it has handled it for a year without complaints

[jagged sequoia]

they are modifying VRchats code to accomplish that and vrchat doesn't like that

[daring dust]

Well vrc don't like good looking avatars apparently

[fathom oxide]

im pretty sure transparency doesnt add very much to file size only kb

[quaint pollen]

yeah

[rich geyser]

file size has little to do with performance??

[quaint pollen]

transparency doesnt impact a lot?

[fathom oxide]

it does but im saying transparency doesnt affect it much

[spare summit]

not rlly

[quaint pollen]

thats not how it works?

this is for coth hair and fur

[jagged sequoia]

that's literally from the manufacturers of the headset

[rich geyser]

alpha cards = transparency

[fathom oxide]

well i have seen my friends stream making avatars and after adding transparency there is zero change in file size

[rich geyser]

alpha is transparency

[jagged sequoia]

that info would be functionally equivalent for any other transparency rendering

[quaint pollen]

then why does it work flawlessly for me

[quaint pollen]

yes i know im a 3d modeller and used unity for quite a while

[daring dust]

Exactly

[spare summit]

also i just looked. u guys havent sent a single screenshot of fps or video of gameplay in a public lobby, just screenshots of the avatar before and after which doesnt rlly show anything

[jagged sequoia]

it gets worse the more transparencies are overlapping on top of each other

[spare summit]

ur straight up lying lmfaoooo

[fathom oxide]

in fact there have been avatar with a good avatar performance with cutout

[calm monolith]

quest lives matter😔

[rich geyser]

ok once again do you guys know why transparency and over rendering is bad?

[fathom oxide]

do you make avatars?

[jagged sequoia]

it literally cannot be identical in file size because it's having to store the data for the transparency

[spare summit]

yes <3

[daring dust]

No????

[fathom oxide]

couldnt tell ❤️

[spare summit]

i also know that adding a whole new channel to an image file makes it fucking larger

[daring dust]

Well you much not know much tbhhh

[fathom oxide]

at most it makes like a mb but idk what your doing to make it add a gb bc my friends have never had that issue

[proper basalt]

i got a headache, so ima go

[calm monolith]

i don't know much about making avatars myself😬

[quaint pollen]

but BARELY hello

[spare summit]

never said a gb what

[jagged sequoia]

that's a good idea

[fathom oxide]

your acting like it no offense

[spare summit]

anyways im done here everyone in this chat is actually so annoying lol

[fathom oxide]

alright bye

[daring dust]

You we're acting like it was

[jagged sequoia]

like even making it go from one megabyte to 2 MB is a noticeable increase

[proper basalt]

yeah, tryna read this all hurts

[calm monolith]

arrivederci

[quaint pollen]

thats not how it works?

[rich geyser]

When a pixel is rendered with transparency, it first renders whats behind it, then renders it a second time with the transprent object on top, repeat for number of transprent items are stacked

[quaint pollen]

alpha doesnt add like literally like 2mb more, it depends on how the main texture ltierally already is

[fathom oxide]

it hardly ever reaches even close to a full mb

[fathom oxide]

yeah depending on the texture quality and resolution

[jagged sequoia]

it's going to take up the same amount of vram regardless of your crunch compression settings

[quaint pollen]

like even if the picture uses transparency it still will use the same mb of the file but just without the transparency but the alpha is STILL there

[rich geyser]

guys

[pastel storm]

Bro wats goin on in here

[fathom oxide]

the new update stuff😭

[rich geyser]

file size isn't that big of a deal when it comes to performance, infact its not even the heavy thing about transprency

[pastel storm]

Imposters r epic

[calm monolith]

🍿

[fathom oxide]

so what is the main issue

if its not transparency what is it

[rich geyser]

this

[quaint pollen]

polygons literally make the performance go worse hello

[jagged sequoia]

vram does affect Quest users quite a bit

[rich geyser]

Yeah but file size != vram

[jagged sequoia]

good point

[pastel storm]

[fathom oxide]

i hear you but seriously the update has made no change there shoulve been like a poll bc alot of people are upset and we dont even make avatars

[quaint pollen]

there is literally a vram parameter in vrchat and it barely goes over the green part even with transparency

like what are these excuses

[jagged sequoia]

recent update broke avatars on Quest that were using modded sdks to do transparency

[quaint pollen]

it depends on the model not just that it uses transparency

[spare summit]

with one avatar rendered maybe

[rich geyser]

@quaint pollen Please read this

[pastel storm]

Modded sdks
Well theres ur problem lol

[fathom oxide]

but by making people 3d model the transparent things it increases poly which is the main source of lag

[spare summit]

exactly lmao

[spare summit]

no, it isnt lmfao

[rich geyser]

Not true, main killer is draw calls

[jagged sequoia]

and the quest users trying to make excuses that transparency is not a rendering problem for mobile Hardware

[quaint pollen]

but even that barely affects the quest

[fathom oxide]

i literally mainly play on quest

[spare summit]

poly count doesnt affect performance nearly as much as shaders and the like

[fathom oxide]

and its always the avatas that have higher poly count that lag me the most

once i turn it off its smooth

[rich geyser]

do you know what a draw call is?

[fathom oxide]

youd be suprised

[spare summit]

its almost as if avatars with high poly count are also unoptimized in other areas

[spare summit]

as someone who does 3d modeling, not rlly

[quaint pollen]

bit weird how yall expect us to model out everything which costs literally MORE polygon which is the cause to make it even lagger than just an image with cutout

[daring dust]

It does not show bb

[fathom oxide]

im also someone who does 3d modeling????

but transparency is the leastof the issues...

trust me

[cedar portal]

Polygon are by far the least impacting aspect alone on performance for any type of computer
We can render that shit at almost lightspeed and unless its an comically large number to the point the throughput form cpu to gpu is bottlenecked its not 'impacting performance a lot'

[jagged sequoia]

VRchat expects you to pick designs that fit within the Avatar ranking system not make very poor avatars

[spare summit]

honestly im convinced theyre just trolling at this point

[cedar portal]

Having multiple meshes, transparency or any other thing that causes more draw calls is way more impacting to the hardware itself.

[fathom oxide]

avatars with a poly count over 100,000 drop frame rates there have been many instances of this

[quaint pollen]

that is true, if the model would be 100k polygons even WITH transparency it would still runn like 50 fps

im not joking

like transparency is the LEAST issue

[rich geyser]

100k polys is an absurd number even for PC

[jagged sequoia]

seems more like folks convinced that if they say words right they get their transparent to avatars back

[spare summit]

lmfao fr

[fathom oxide]

yall really dont get high quality avatars damm😭

[jagged sequoia]

like even in video games you only see that for like the cutscene model

[spare summit]

u can make an avatar "high quality" without "high resolution"

[cedar portal]

What is comically large number. Swapping how many meshes or what shader doesnt impact performance then anymore because the troughput is bottlenecked.

[quaint pollen]

i mean have fun finding actual good looking avatars because these vrchat mobile shaders suck

[fathom oxide]

yes, im not just talking about textures im talking about poly count aswell

do you know what polyogns are?

[pastel storm]

The shaders r sucky but we just gotta put up wit em

[jagged sequoia]

standard light Shader has gotten a lot better in the open beta

[fathom oxide]

that is a true point

[pastel storm]

Is wat it is

[quaint pollen]

but using standard literally worked as good

[fathom oxide]

but we were able to handle them before so idkk

[calm monolith]

i havent seen what vrchat mobile looks like

[spare summit]

resolution as in higher polycount. u dont need to use a crazy amount of polygons, nobodys lookin at ur avatar that close

[quaint pollen]

LMFAO thats why everyones complaining about no reflection

so much better l uv ❤️

[spare summit]

so did these people all come from the same avatar server just to complain bc thats honestly what it looks like

[fathom oxide]

yes but you guys are speaking and it sounds like you only have avatars with a single polygon with textures compressed to the max

[jagged sequoia]

yeah they're going to look a lot better with reflection probes

[fathom oxide]

❤️

SORRY

😭

[quaint pollen]

LMAO

[jagged sequoia]

my avatar is good ranking on Quest thanks for asking

[quaint pollen]

is it a furry?

[pastel storm]

[jagged sequoia]

yes

[quaint pollen]

LMAO obviously

[fathom oxide]

girl thats rude

[quaint pollen]

furry avatars barely take up shit

like please

they dont even need transparency

[rich geyser]

HUH

[pastel storm]

[fathom oxide]

um why r you being rude?

[jagged sequoia]

yeah I'm not trying to wear an entire wardrobe on one Avatar

[rich geyser]

Man I dont think we are looking at the same furry avatars 😭

[spare summit]

honestly if u want realistic avatars play second life

[rich geyser]

They're the first ones I hide

[fathom oxide]

thats a good point

[jagged sequoia]

yeah rexes are very unoptimized

[quaint pollen]

who is? Im just saying obviously you dont care about transparency when the avatars you wear dont need them not everyone wears furry avatars ❤️

[fathom oxide]

second life probably runs better than vrc

[daring dust]

It honestly depends like furry avatars mainly don't need transparency because there's like nothing that needs to be transparency but if you want to be a video game character or something it would be completely different sooooo

[spare summit]

then go there :3c

[jagged sequoia]

it's a common problem with human avatars that are very poor

[fathom oxide]

:3

[quaint pollen]

YES

[fathom oxide]

but still yall need to find better avatars because your missing out

[pastel storm]

Gen 1 wasnt lyin

[fathom oxide]

well you were missing out until the update

[spare summit]

you're* but ok

[calm monolith]

then theres those outlined ones

[quaint pollen]

like if yall wanted an avatar from an game that uses techniques like transparency for a lot of the details yall would be complaining here aswell

[fathom oxide]

*transparency isnt the issue

but ok!

[quaint pollen]

yall act like its a crime to use a modded sdk it just gives you more options

[jagged sequoia]

considering how often people wear anime avatars on a VRchat transparency is not strictly needed for that look

[rich geyser]

So I use human avatars (well anime) and usually hit just below very poor in poor simply due to poly count, because I'm too lazy to try and hit below 15k polys, but I think that my ~19k poly count isn't too terrible.

[quaint pollen]

if you cant handle it just block, tf

[spare summit]

its against tos and commonly used to make crashers

[jagged sequoia]

it's literally against the terms of service so yes it is a VRchat crime

[pastel storm]

It is technically. Violates copyright

[fathom oxide]

oohhh

[rich geyser]

Not entirely true?

[fathom oxide]

but thats why they developed turning off avatars :3

[quaint pollen]

even these have limits

[open moat]

But it looks like this?

[fathom oxide]

ohh they broke too

im sorry that happened

[quaint pollen]

even the modded sdk doesnt let you have unlimited things tf

[calm monolith]

jumpscare

[rich geyser]

I dont believe modded SDKs violate any copywrite, TOS absolutely but not copywrite.

[fathom oxide]

yeah its happened to alot of people dont worry

[quaint pollen]

for example you cant use normal maps with transparency which PERFECTLY balances it out for quest

[fathom oxide]

pretty much the entire community

[rich geyser]

normal maps with transparency? I don't think normal maps use transparency do they?

[fathom oxide]

😭

[fathom oxide]

uhhh

[quaint pollen]

no i mean textures that use normal map that have transparency

[calm monolith]

😟

[cedar portal]

Oddly enough taking these tools, tweaking them and 'republishing' them to others could fall under copyright
But its honstly a silly thing and nothing more

[quaint pollen]

i mean textures that have transparency

bruh

[calm monolith]

haha

[fathom oxide]

so its kinda just a vrc choice

[quaint pollen]

i mean its basically just giving them a lot of the choices pc people have

its not really bypassing a lot

[fathom oxide]

its not illegal but its against TOS so the only thing we can really do is voice our opinions (respectfully)

[pastel storm]

The SDK was made by vrchat so it is there property, can be found to infringe on copyright. But thats just nitpicking a random convo atp lol im only a quater here

[cedar portal]

Well VRC has a long and bad history of people editing clients and SDK's so its not odd they want this stuff gone.
Fixing the game so there are less bugs/problems for people breaking ToS aint odd

[calm monolith]

and negotiate

[quaint pollen]

i mean the shaders are not

theyre from unity

[calm monolith]

diplomacy

[pastel storm]

Yea but dif ballpark

[cedar portal]

It does, but you keep forgetting your asking the same things of a mobile chipset
What handles all these things a lot different

[jagged sequoia]

yes but you wouldn't be able to use them without modifying VR chats property

[rich geyser]

You shouldn't be expecting every pc option on quest because you're not using a PC. They straight up use different methods of rendering iirc

[quaint pollen]

i mean for me a lot worked fine

from my friends avatars

[fathom oxide]

the game is great and i didnt know that it was illegal to do the transparency but it bums me out because 99% of the avatars everyone uses somehow bypassed the transparency thing

[quaint pollen]

thats what im not expecting? But the fact that modded sdk's even let you is fascinating and it even runs perfectly fine

[fathom oxide]

i used to be so shocked on how the game looked so good while mainting such a smooth fps

[calm monolith]

neither did I😨

[open moat]

But from remove the copyright sdk it’s removing a good chunk of the vrc community

[quaint pollen]

RIGHT

[fathom oxide]

that is true

[calm monolith]

right

[pastel storm]

A good chunck? I think itl be fine

[rich geyser]

ofc a modded sdk will let you do that, its like saying man why did this locked door let me in when I kicked it down

[cedar portal]

Anecdotal evidence is a great thing 🙃

Also its mainly related to performance what also relates to crashing in the end👀

[jagged sequoia]

most of the furry and anime people would be fine

[spare summit]

eac removed a large chunk of the community and vrc's still goin strong

[fathom oxide]

im worried because so many creators use the modded thing like every creator ive met and ive met alot😭

[jagged sequoia]

statistically speaking there was not really any noticeable difference in the player count

[pastel storm]

Most of those people stopped playin for a few days then came right back tbh

[cedar portal]

Also 'runs perfect' bruh the chat is constantly filled with people complaining of shit performance and crashing

[daring dust]

Yes but everyone else won't be let's think about everyone and not just cartoons and dogs

[quaint pollen]

yet it even happens with original sdk' s like its a main problem not just a modded sdk problem hello

[sick ridge]

Community: Why does Quest crash so much???

VRChat: Oki we fix the things crashing you

Community: Why did you take away all our fun??????

VRChat:

[rich geyser]

like 2k people jump ship then came back a week later LOL

[calm monolith]

🪨

[quaint pollen]

crashing is not fully caused by shaders tf

[spare summit]

never ending cycle

[open moat]

👌

[jagged sequoia]

well the third variety is copyright infringement vrchat can't officially care about those

[cedar portal]

Well apparently plenty of peeps used the moddified SDK that you cant claim that 👀

[pastel storm]

Just gotta adapt then. Modded sdks are against tos so if anythin they were foolin themselves not expecting it too dissapear

[calm monolith]

sometimes personally i feel like its the world size but again it might just be me

[spare summit]

hey hey u know those out of memory errors literally every questie gets...... gee i wonder what could cause those....

[fathom oxide]

i dont make avatars im just speaking from the perspective of a player

[pastel storm]

Ikik

[daring dust]

Well not really some of them aren't I'm not only talking about game characters...

[quaint pollen]

girl it happens on both sdk's its not the sdk's fault it often has errors loading avatars in to begin with

i assume its the messy engine

[jagged sequoia]

I can count on one hand the amount of original humans I've seen in a non anime style

[fathom oxide]

i got that like once this year but never again😭

[calm monolith]

easy anti cheat............

[pastel storm]

Plus, modded sdks are unoffical software. U got no idea wat there doin in the back

[daring dust]

Well Ive seen a good bit so let's not

[open moat]

No it’s not the avi even Avis with a he modded stuff on it the memory low thing is not the problem

[fathom oxide]

that true but im pretty sure they want the models to look good

[cedar portal]

Your not grasping what i wrote at all.
The SDK's throwing red errors has nothing to do with the game itself crashing

[quaint pollen]

wait i never had that hello 😭

[open moat]

But at the same time it’s making vrchat a little more fun for a lot of people

[quaint pollen]

thanks you literally just proved my argument

hello

[fathom oxide]

some people hardly get that issue

[spare summit]

never said u did

[calm monolith]

i havent even heard of this

[quaint pollen]

I can already see like last year people giving bad reviews because "quest avatars look too ugly now"

helppppp

[rich geyser]

Why are people bringing up the SDK in a debate about quests? The SDK is only on PC

[spare summit]

its an extremely common issue on quest, and transparency shaders can absolutely contribute to it

[quaint pollen]

no?

bye

[pastel storm]

Yea, until they cant play vrchat anymore because the modded sdk sends ur email and password somewhere and ur account gets yoinked

[spare summit]

ok? vrc recovered once, it will again

[rich geyser]

Erm yes?

[quaint pollen]

girl what

[rich geyser]

It stands for Software Development Kit, its what you use to upload avatars

[quaint pollen]

did u ever craete a avatar

[spare summit]

literally is, software development kit...

[rich geyser]

not play the game

[spare summit]

try uploading an avatar on quest lol

[quaint pollen]

???

[jagged sequoia]

people were using modified sdks to bypass Quest limitations for their avatars mainly uploading avatars that use transparencies

[quaint pollen]

im talking about the vrchat sdk

[rich geyser]

Yeah

[cedar portal]

SDK is the tool within unity you use to upload any avatar.
Be it PC or Quest

[quaint pollen]

girl theyre for both pc and quest

[rich geyser]

Yeah but you can only use it on a pc because it needs unity

[spare summit]

sdk is for uploading avatars and making worlds. it has nothing to do with ingame, and the sdk isnt on quest. u can use it to upload avatars for quest FROM pc

[quaint pollen]

yes

[quaint pollen]

yes

[pastel storm]

It can only be used on PC i think is wat they mean. Quest cant run unity editor

[rich geyser]

ergo its only on a pc

[rich geyser]

This

[quaint pollen]

help i never said quest can run unity editor???

[spare summit]

sdk has nothing to do with quest performance

[quaint pollen]

where r u getting this from

[rich geyser]

Then why are you bringing up the SDK?

[quaint pollen]

what do you mean?

[spare summit]

u said the sdk wasnt only on pc...?

[rich geyser]

It has nothing to do with a quests performance

[jagged sequoia]

because the past hour and a half of conversation has been people complaining that they're illegal modded SDK avatars to allow transparency on Quest are broken

[quaint pollen]

no i meant as in its for pc and quest

[spare summit]

fr

[pastel storm]

[spare summit]

yeah. and has nothing to do with ingame performance.

[quaint pollen]

i never said it does

hello

[rich geyser]

Then why bring it up??????

[spare summit]

removing the errors in the sdk with a modded version doesnt magically make an avatar run better on quest, especially in big lobbies

[quaint pollen]

i never said it does hello

[spare summit]

then why mention the sdk

[quaint pollen]

where r yall getting this from

[open moat]

All the people are asking is to just asking is for it to be fixed

[quaint pollen]

i mentioned this because someone said that modded makes it crash

[rich geyser]

The thing is, it is fixed. This is the intended state of the game.

[quaint pollen]

hello

[pastel storm]

[open moat]

Other people aren’t liking it

[quaint pollen]

that modded sdk is causing the game to crash

[cedar portal]

You still did not read what i wrote at all if you think i said that 💀

[quaint pollen]

apparently

[spare summit]

nobody said that. the things people put on quest avatars with modded sdks cause crashes.

[quaint pollen]

yes and i said that even IN the modded sdk it has limitations

there is limitations you CANT bypass

because on run it will remove

[rich geyser]

I guess it sucks to suck, this is what happens when you abuse unintended features and bypass purposeful limitations

[quaint pollen]

like stop talking when you dont knwo what ur saying

[pastel storm]

Brrooo

[spare summit]

yeah im aware.

[cedar portal]

Let me rephrase it then for you
Even simple transparency on the mobile chipsets can cause the scene to become fragment bound really quick.
To the point Meta themselves advice to not use it too much

People bypassing the limit cause this shit to happen. What also directly increases the risk of crashing and shit, as the game aint meant to become fragment bound

[quaint pollen]

you mean as in it crashes because of transparency? if yes then thats not the case

[open moat]

Idk what’s more important the community doesn’t like this at all and people are going to complain a lot

[spare summit]

https://tenor.com/view/going-insane-cat-funny-gif-25358622

[pastel storm]

Oh yea worth pointing out the limitations on this game have been reccomended by meta themselves

[rich geyser]

ok do oyou know how transparency rendering works?

[fathom oxide]

then leave the convo 😍

[cedar portal]

Reread what i wrote. It should not be hard to read all the words i said.

[fathom oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/kiss-gif-1495747928058999276

[spare summit]

i cant, its like watching a train crash

[cedar portal]

Your missing a really big one still so try again

[calm monolith]

paint dry

[fathom oxide]

pretty accurate description of vrc rn😭

[quaint pollen]

you basically said that which with "bypass" you also mean transparency

tf

[pastel storm]

Nah this is just kinda funny to pass the time

[rich geyser]

that is not what they said in the slightest?

[cedar portal]

Alright, il make it easier, reread the word 'increases'

Using a 16K material would also increase the odds
Its also why that shit aint allowed.

[open moat]

Everyone was fine with it though no one complained about it?

[quaint pollen]

thats maybe why it is limited even in the modded sdk

[spare summit]

me when the

[quaint pollen]

😆

[cedar portal]

And why they blocked it now 🙂

[rich geyser]

The limits VRC set exists for a reason

They aren't just numbers they pulled out their ass

[quaint pollen]

these limits literally exist on the modded sdk aswell

[open moat]

They do

[cedar portal]

They get bypassed, so no.

[quaint pollen]

girl

[spare summit]

are u reading.

[quaint pollen]

theres still limits

[pastel storm]

Den wats the point of the modded sdk lol

[cedar portal]

If you ignore the limit, then that limit aint there 💀

[spare summit]

the things that arent limited are causing performance issues

[rich geyser]

Yeah isn't the whole point of the modded SDK BYPASSING the limits set?

the limit being no transparency allowed?

[cedar portal]

If you could not bypass/ignore the limit, then you would not need an modified SDK at all

[spare summit]

ie transparent textures increasing draw calls

[quaint pollen]

yes it is but not as in oh im making it so high that the game crashes

[fathom oxide]

then why r people still have performance issues after the update

[rich geyser]

Because the avatars still suck even after transparency got removed

[sick ridge]

Feel free to copy/paste this everywhere so people understand, transparency on Quest/Android bad

:)

https://developer.oculus.com/blog/down-the-rabbit-hole-w-oculus-quest-developer-best-practices-the-store/

Due to the very high resolution that Quest games render to, it’s also possible to become fragment-bound even in scenes that do not have complex fragment shaders. The most common culprit is large transparent objects that overlap each other and end up touching the same pixels many times in a single frame. For example, a particle effect that draws large transparent quads across the entire eye buffer may be more expensive than you expect if the quads have significant overlap and cause lots of pixels to be blended multiple times.

[fathom oxide]

havent really seen many complaints before😭 idk

[quaint pollen]

yet it still works almost lag free hello

[spare summit]

make this a copypasta for good measure 😭

[quaint pollen]

like adding a bit of transparency is literally not gonna make ur quest explode

[spare summit]

with one or two avatars rendered yeah

[cedar portal]

Part of the problem
There is still a way larger one where shit like materials, total drawcalls and ect are too high.
But people cant grasp even basic performance concepts so let alone all that stuff

[rich geyser]

This is literally the people who made your headset telling you not to do something I think they know better than you or me

[open moat]

The modded sdk is not doing anything

[alpine bolt]

Maybe they didn't except that.

[quaint pollen]

girl ive been playing w my friends on a lot of transparency using avatars and its not as bad as yall descvribe it

[pastel storm]

Dude ur just coping atp it aint comin back get over it

[sick ridge]

"works on my machine therefor it isn't a problem" 10/10 logic, you'd make an amazing gamedev

[fathom oxide]

so eventually will quest just be decimated to rec room avatars😭 or are they still to high quality

[quaint pollen]

i mean why wouldnt i

[pastel storm]

Cus it aint comin back

[quaint pollen]

and as if yall aint doing the same thing hello

[spare summit]

no??? what r u talking abt

[cedar portal]

Having an transparent object, like glasses, can cause the full game to 'render' what you see almost 1.5x more then needed 🙃

[spare summit]

plenty of good performance quest avatars dont look like "rec room avatars"

[rich geyser]

Even more per piece of stacked transparency

[quaint pollen]

girl its not as dramatic as ur making it sound

[cedar portal]

High quallity has nothing to do with performance.
Its all about how lazy/skilled the creators are on this.

[fathom oxide]

well.....

[cedar portal]

It legit is for mobile chipsets 💀

[sick ridge]

it already is, this is straight from the horses mouth of Oculus. If someone is gonna look at this and keep shoving their fingers in their ears welp not much you can do to fix stupid

[pastel storm]

Bro give up shes never gonna listen lmao this is grade A cope

[cedar portal]

The one thing mobiles where not made to do was render transparent things really

[spare summit]

if the only way u know how to optimize an avatar is decimating im sorry but u rlly dont know much

[fathom oxide]

its hard for creators to expand and be skilled when the limitations are so tight they are claustraphobic

[spare summit]

yeah

[fathom oxide]

figurative speech :3

[quaint pollen]

i mean have fun trying to find good quest avatars after this luv ❤️

[pastel storm]

Im on pc il be just fine

[rich geyser]

Unfortunately with a limited platform you need to make sacrifices in the content you create. Its sad, but just how things work.

[fathom oxide]

clearly you dont either...

[quaint pollen]

girl? then dont even be in this conversation to begin with

[spare summit]

good by your standards? never even saw any of those literally anywhere so im good

[pastel storm]

Il stay thx

[cedar portal]

Wont hear me denying that, im all in favor for better/easier to understand resources on this topic.
But there are heaps of tallented artists that have made avatars within the 'good' performance ranking for quest without having them look any worse then the 'very poor' ones.
Its hard, not easy, but most people dont even attempt to do any optimization on there avatars.

[fathom oxide]

its true but i just wish they would find some way by eliminating something other than that

[quaint pollen]

then dont complain about other people complaining tf

if u aint evne on quest

[pliant crow]

can confirm, transparency is a huge problem at scale

(gamedev)

[spare summit]

we got an expert in chat /pos

[fathom oxide]

thats true but it makes things a whole lot easier and beginner friendly aswell as for those insanely talented creators to put out there art without it looking boring

[pastel storm]

Im not complaining. I actually find it pretty funny. Its littrly just putting ur fingers in ear and going lalalala

[jagged sequoia]

I posted the documentation of the developers of the headset several times

[fathom oxide]

but is it the biggest issue with lag?

[spare summit]

no but its a good thing to avoid

[rich geyser]

Also remember, the VRC devs need to hit 72fps to be listed on the oculous store
Source: https://developer.oculus.com/resources/vrc-quest-performance-1/

[fathom oxide]

but it didnt do much i thought it wouldve been more useful to pin point the exact issue

[pliant crow]

one of them, yeah. you want to reduce the amount of blending overall and transparency means blending over and over and over

[quaint pollen]

I mean have fun w ugly ass looking quest avatars if yall want it so bad ❤️ but dont ever complain in the future

[cedar portal]

Can always start on PC and go from there
Aint perfect but its better then nothing

VRC as a community and platform has been hella slow with tutorials for things that are actual important.
The people with the info cba to spread it with how this community acts at times

[daring dust]

Exactly

[fathom oxide]

ig but my question is they ran so well before and after the upadte nothing changed

[spare summit]

havent complained about legitimate sdk avatars so far, so im good :3

[fathom oxide]

well yeah its alot easier for pc bc of the lack of limits but idk i just feel bad for quest because its like going back to how it was before when there werent any phys bones

[rich geyser]

Transparency is but a single hole in a sinking ship basically. There are still plenty other metrics which cause you performance to drop.

[fathom oxide]

ik i just really hope there is a fix to this bc this changes alot for vrc

[rich geyser]

unfortunately this is the fix

[cedar portal]

Gotta realize your talking to someone who uploaded avatars back in 2018, avatars dont look much better at all while we have a lot more tools.
Your concept of 'more = better' isnt exactly wrong, but its also far from being correct.

[rich geyser]

because its either this or you start stripping other things which are a lot more impactful

I'm sure you wouldn't want to be hard limited to 20k polys (this used to be the case, even for PC)

[jagged sequoia]

like vrc is going to ship the Imposter system next feature update

[pastel storm]

im curious what theyl look like in vr

[cedar portal]

Im a fucking god at decimating MMD avatars thanks to that limit

[rich geyser]

Hell in VRC's docs they even state that very poor avatars might be removed at any time, entirely for quest

[spare summit]

honestly for someone who ur not actually talking to whos just in the lobby, i dont think theyll even be that noticeable

especially on quest 2 and the like bc ull hardly even be able to see em anyway lmfao

[sick ridge]

I'm gonna be laughing so hard when that happens, this channel is gonna be such a shitshow

[cedar portal]

Q1 also wont struggle with that. They for sure wont be able to see them :^)

[pastel storm]

Il hopefully be picking up a q3 ina few days when i fly home so shud be able to see first hand

[open moat]

They all gonna look bad just saying

[jagged sequoia]

they've already removed it for the mobile Android version

[cedar portal]

Kinda not the point of them tho--

[sick ridge]

Quest 1 has been depreciated by Facebook and VRChat is forced to remove support for the hardware 🙃

[fathom oxide]

Well more limitations allows for beautiful creations

[spare summit]

i would get a quest 3 but i honestly dont rlly feel like i need it. i can b immersed just fine without higher res

[spare summit]

^^^^ the point of them is to be able to see what someones avatar looks like without impacting performance by loading it

[cedar portal]

I know, was just making a joke about that

[rich geyser]

does quest 3 have eye/face tracking, or is that still only q pro?

[fathom oxide]

There’s a giant diffrence

[spare summit]

still only pro

[fathom oxide]

That’s why there’s so much complaining

[jagged sequoia]

still a quest pro only feature

[spare summit]

.....r u talking abt impostors or the no transparency still

[rich geyser]

Some day I'll be able to get ft without selling a kidney 😔

[spare summit]

bc i was talking abt impostors who arent directly in front of u

[open moat]

But to the people it is

[cedar portal]

Honestly most avatars on all platforms look so damn the same compared to when we had more limits and less tools 👀
The only aspect where this isnt true at all is at the avatar showcases some groups do, the really insane particle, avatar and ect shows are popping hard

[fathom oxide]

Ohhh I forgot about the imposters sorry

[spare summit]

ur good

[pastel storm]

Pickin it up cus it seems like good value for money + my index 2 year warranty is poofed. Its on its last legs

Will probably post ab if i like it in gen 1

I dont doubt il like it

[cedar portal]

Then the people are wrong as they often are.
The system is meant to reduce the load of avatars your not actively engaging with.
Not having to force show half the lobby is the goal, not it being a replacement for all avatars

[spare summit]

yeah, it definitely seems like an incredible pcvr headset, especially compared to the arguably worse specs and price of the index and whatnot

[pastel storm]

Yiss

[open moat]

But the found a work around

[pastel storm]

Gimmie those pancake lenses

[cedar portal]

Now only to pray the Q4 gets a giant efficiency upgrade

[jagged sequoia]

and most folks have been shown to be incapable of making fall back avatars so they need to invent the Imposter system

[spare summit]

and wireless capability built in 🤑

[cedar portal]

Get some of that Apple silicone power efficiency magic in there

[fathom oxide]

We have the right to be upset but also they also have the right to make the change if they think it’s necessary it srsly sucks but unless they change it won’t change

[jagged sequoia]

it's not going to

[cedar portal]

Let me dream owkay

[pastel storm]

Quest pro 2 reportedly in development for 2025

[jagged sequoia]

it's going to be like a 2025 cell phone processor

[heavy bobcat]

👟 <-- Yeezy's

[rich geyser]

Valve Deckard
I BELIEVE

[spare summit]

and the quest 3 lite as well as a china launch coming, vr in more peoples hands is gonna lead to a lot more innovation in the industry

[pastel storm]

I inhaled too much copium.i must buy quest 3

[open moat]

But a lot of people are going to leave VRC for good just saying

[pastel storm]

Sorry deckard

[jagged sequoia]

and it's probably going to cost $1,500 bucks

[icy rain]

👞 <-- 1800's

[cedar portal]

Eh, current XR chips are straying further and further from mobile style chips
Comparing raw calculating power should already not be done with how differen the XR2 chip is

[jagged sequoia]

they're not you underestimate the network effects

[rich geyser]

just like they did with EAC I'm sure.

[pastel storm]

I assure you the game will be fine

[cedar portal]

Ait

[jagged sequoia]

and come back a couple of years in the vast majority of the VR chat user base will never know very poor avatars or transparency is because they'll all be playing on Android phones

[heavy bobcat]

🦶 <-- 100,000,000 Bc's

[spare summit]

...i dont think vrc is gonna care. the people paying for vrc plus care abt the platform and community, not transparency... and guess who vrc gets their money from

[sick ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/see-you-next-week-guys-liam-scott-edwards-ace-trainer-liam-catch-you-next-week-folks-i'll-be-back-next-week-guys-gif-18199901435501663045

exact same thing happened with EAC lol

[rich geyser]

Actually I wonder

!online

zamn doesn't work

[sick ridge]

it will happen with this, and it will happen when Very Poors get removed on Quest

[spare summit]

steam charts?

[cedar portal]

Also people not crashing more often is great for playability. What is kinda what you want to grow

[jagged sequoia]

probably mostly pcvr users

[icy rain]

🦿 <-- 5034

[spare summit]

well thats for pc

[sick ridge]

people will leave for a week or 2 then come right back

[heavy bobcat]

🚙 <-- car

[icy rain]

🚕 <-- taxi

[sick ridge]

sure some will leave for longer or for good but most come back

[jagged sequoia]

yes because there's literally nowhere else for them to go

[spare summit]

games with 0 players ofc

[heavy bobcat]

<-- VRC

[spare summit]

🐟 <-- fish

[rich geyser]

what you talkin about helious popping with that 1 player a week average

[spare summit]

oh true my mistake

[rich geyser]

you're all good g

[icy rain]

💻 <--- cupter

[spare summit]

🐟 <-- fish

[rich geyser]

dont wanna hear anyone disrespect my favourite game

[spare summit]

^ fish

[heavy bobcat]

🧱 <-- BRICK

[cedar portal]

Pong?

[spare summit]

dont smash puter 😭

[jagged sequoia]

I just want to hear a report of someone's Avatar looking weird that's not using a modded SDK so I can figure out if there is a problem vrchat needs to worry about or not

[rich geyser]

Fallback shaders have been funky

with smoothness and or metallics being set way too high for some reason

[heavy bobcat]

me when umm me when the hair

[icy rain]

👮‍♂️ <-- pokcde

[heavy bobcat]

🦷 <-- teeth

[jagged sequoia]

hopefully they get that fixed before the update comes out

[rich geyser]

yeah its pretty bad actually

[icy rain]

🔞 <-- 18 no

[rich geyser]

there was some talk of it in #open-beta-discussion I believe

[heavy bobcat]

🤨 🤨 🤨

[proven hinge]

Doea anyone have an ozen the immovable avatar I could favourite? Been thoroughly enjoying made in abyss

[steady idol]

#1138520828556890214

[loud thistle]

I'm thinking of trying EasyQuestSwitch, but should I worry about other files in my project, when I switch platforms? The warnings make it sound like files get messed up

[robust sleet]

Hey 👋

[loud thistle]

Hi, and for real, I haven't seen one tutorial for this thing. It's all other methods or plugins.

[worldly veldt]

I'm struggling with my attempt to move an avatar to Quest compatible. I made a copy of the avatar, same ID, and it builds and uploads,
BUT...

• the menu options don't work
• It isn't in the default state I uploaded it in
  So the Quest user sees something completely different

Things I did:
Copied textures and materials for Quest friendly copy
Duplicated the Animator for the FX layer, then changed some of the layers. The parameters are the same.

Also, sometimes when I go to the Settings to Reset avatar, it causes the PC version to turn into the yellow and grey error robot

[alpine bolt]

They need to update this game again...

[cold copper]

Potentially silly question but can I say

Upload an avatar for quest as a fallback and have the bones disabled

then upload it for PC with the bones the enabled?

[flint forge]

They still count.

[cold copper]

figures. So I'd have to be below the bone limit for both desktop and quest for it to work

[flint forge]

Or just have less on the Quest version.

[cold copper]

Yeah but they have to be like, the same avatar right? Or can I choose a different avatar to be my quest fallback?

[flint forge]

Quest and PC can be literally completely different

[cold copper]

huh, neat. I guess I'm just trying to figure out like, does it need to be in the same avatar project for a fallback to work or can you make a quest project and a PC project and just, upload them and set the quest one as your default fallback?

[flint forge]

Just needs the same blueprint ID, below or above avatar descriptor the pipeline manager sits and holds this ID.

[cold copper]

I see. So I can upload two separate projects but if they have the same avatar ID one will register as the fallback is what I'm getting?

[flint forge]

It will register as the same avatar, just different versions (PC/Quest).

[cold copper]

oooo

ok that works perfectly

I'll do that then! Thank you so much for the help!

[cold copper]

how would I go about copying over the same blueprint ID into a secondary project?

[flint forge]

Either just copy the value in the pipeline manager, or go into the SDK screen and "content manager" where you can "copy ID"

[cold copper]

ah sweet

then where does that go in the other project? (sorry for dumb questions)

[flint forge]

The other versions pipeline manager, below or above the avatar descriptor.

And just to be sure, you aren't actually creating separate projects for this right?

[cold copper]

I mean, I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to do it ngl

please correct my stupidity if I'm making a huge dumdum

oh wait, I might have just figured it out...

I just... slap the quest instance into the project and select to upload that one don't I?

[flint forge]

Everything dragged into Unity (so it is visible) is in a scene, you can have basically unlimited avatars in one scene, they just need to be their own thing and you should disable the ones you aren't uploading.

[cold copper]

OHHHH

ok I'm dumdum dsdsfsdfs

but that makes sense

[flint forge]

Not an uncommon thing to be confused about

[cold copper]

tbh it isn't exactly super obvious yeah

It should be a pretty simple switch over for uploading this avatar in quest form because my poly count already seems to be relatively ok for PC and everything else is fine, I atlas'd my textures and all that jazz because of course I did

It's just disabling all the physbones on my quest version

[flint forge]

Just duplicate the PC avatar in the scene and remove the physbones from that version.

[cold copper]

yeah that's basically what I've done

although gotta mess with the shaders a bit

ah yes, this problem...

[cold copper]

Now I remember why I never got this going the first time lmao

[limber parrot]

Does anyone have a mamehinata avatar I can have? My user is Angxlicxclouds edb9 I understand if none of you want to give me one because I hear that a lot of them your have to pay for... it's just I recently got really into the mamehinata community and my avatar got taken down.

[late silo]

its not suppose to be public which is probably why it got taken down, also why no one will be giving you one 👍

[west jay]

Hey I'm having trouble converting my avatar to quest. It's saying that the Android player is disabled?

[cold copper]

generally it's encouraged to buy the avatar from booth and upload it yourself to your own account where possible

[cold copper]

did you use the creator companion to setup Unity?

[west jay]

Yes

[cold copper]

which unity version are you using?

[west jay]

Unity 2019.4.31

[cold copper]

ok so you are using the recommended version. It sounds like the android part of unity might not be installed properly or something?

[west jay]

It does it with every avatar I make.

[cold copper]

strange

[west jay]

Any ideas?

[cold copper]

Not entirely sure. Might wanna check the documentation and follow the guide for the manual unity setup process to make sure you have all the unity stuff setup right because I think the android sdk might not be installed

[old tide]

Is lightmapped not allowed for quest? Why is it in the mobile folder then?

[jagged sequoia]

because the folder airs both world and Avatar shaders

[old tide]

Ah so it's a world shader, thanks!

[magic slate]

I thought transparency on quest has never been supported...

[alpine bolt]

it was modded sdk

[jagged sequoia]

sounds like they're using a modded SDK

[alpine bolt]

And mods were been banned because the Social anti cheat/ EAC

[magic slate]

Yes, I was purposely trolling to see if they'd say something about that 🙂

[jagged sequoia]

Fair there has been a lot of those folks the past couple of days

[magic slate]

I noticed that

It's why I said "supported" vs. saying whether it was possible or not

[fathom oxide]

also alot of people who r using th modded sdk may not even be aware its against the rules

there are quite a few younger kids whomake avatars

and there just handed the modded sdks

because they have more options but they dont think much of it

so i wouldnt say its all entirely their fault

alot of them just go with the trend

[vernal torrent]

Anyone know how to fix an issue with the legs not moving when shifting around in place? The avis legs don't move when moving around IRL but move when the joystick is-

[late silo]

Not a complaint or anything, just something funny that happened just now, but has anyone else had there avatar preview stay after closing the menu lol, It even stayed after changing avatars

[jaunty jewel]

yeah, same

[swift knoll]

Yup had that happen to me

[late silo]

lol

[carmine fern]

So why does the quest shaders have detail maps and smoothness and such if it just deletes everything but the albedo on upload anyways? Is that a bug?

[jagged sequoia]

Question does it do that behavior on the open beta

[carmine fern]

dunno, I only use the Creator Companion

[spare summit]

that's actually hilarious

[fathom oxide]

Yeah that happened to me after the update it’s like a tiny mini me😭

It’s kinda cute

[carmine fern]

That happens specifically if you close the menu before the little example avatar is loaded

[late silo]

good to know now i can recreate it lol

[obtuse sundial]

Does anyone know the names of these types of avatars?? They are extremely adorable but I can't find them anywhere. I know those are customs but I mean those types in general. I looked on prismic's search and found like 1

(I'm a quest user)

[jagged sequoia]

those appear to be modified versions of https://booth.pm/en/items/4340548

and that Avatar bass is allowed to be used on public avatars

[obtuse sundial]

Ooh!! Thank you!

[jagged sequoia]

so you would need to purchase the Avatar and upload it yourself if you want to be a mamehinata

[obtuse sundial]

Yeah, I don't have any tech to do that but I'll find something

[jagged sequoia]

it doesn't need to be a fast computer to upload to VRchat

[obtuse sundial]

Yeah, my only devices are my phone and my quest 2

[shy stratus]

Anyone know good tactical Avis?

Female preferably

[pastel storm]

how do i make avis smaller? im so close to uploading her fuly

[steady idol]

delete stuff

[neon vessel]

Crunching textures

[sullen ermine]

How do i fix this i dont know how this happened

[ashen oracle]

As it says, lower the resolution of your largest textures in the texture import settings

[sullen ermine]

i did but this is a pc upload and i dont know why is saying this all of a sudden

[ashen oracle]

well if it's a PC upload then it won't stop you from uploading

it's bad, but it's not so bad that it will stop you

[sullen ermine]

i tried and it wont

[ashen oracle]

can you post an image of the entire panel?

[pale burrow]

y’all know a good video that talks about the optimization of quest and it’s limits ?

[ashen oracle]

This is not quest specific, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFBQeNON64Q

[midnight loom]

Hello

[vapid wasp]

any recommended hardware for pcvr quest 3 body tracking?

[hot sparrow]

PLEASE tell me that the devs might ever go back on this:

I've been wanting to add world constraints to allow for barrier magic on an avatar for a hot second

[strange bison]

how do people put lights on their avatars for the quest side?

[magic slate]

You don't get lights

[strange bison]

one of my quest friends had an avatar they mentioned that it has lights wqhen firing a gun

[magic slate]

If it does, it was probably made with a hacked SDK

or it's not actually a light, possibly just a particle emission

[strange bison]

oh how would i do something like that?

currently im seeing if i can use a standard lite mat with maxed emissions on it to see how that turns out

[magic slate]

there are lots of tutorials on particles in Unity

[steady idol]

Emissions dont give off light
They were using a particle with additive

To fake the light

[strange bison]

yeah i didnt think it would, but i was still attempting haha
ill try the additive mat when i go to edit the avi

thanks

[steady idol]

Iirc lights cant get past the second check

[half hound]

Anyone know where I can find Xmas avatars for quest 2?

[steady idol]

#1138520828556890214

[pastel storm]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[steady idol]

all you get is the ones under the vrchat/mobile

they all have a different purpose/use

[covert python]

Quick question if anyone can answer for me:

"... disabled on Quest since they can never appear on avatars: ... Audio Sources"

Does this mean that quest avatars are completely unable to produce sounds or perform any kind of audio playback?

(for example an auto-bot style avatar with a transformation sound effect played during the animation)

[flint forge]

Yes, no audio sources on Quest.

[robust whale]

Whenever I try to make particles for quest, I keep getting told that the particles folder of shaders is just for worlds. Yet I see people uploading avatars for quest with those shaders on their avatars. Whenever I try to do it, the SDK allows me to, but in game the shader does not work and the particles don't appear to render at all. I know it's not an issue with the toggles/animations for the particles, because if I switch to a different shader it shows up. And it's not just my quest, because the additive and multiply shaders work on other people's avatars. Does anyone know what is going on here?

[late silo]

particles are ass on quest most "good" particles you see on quest use a modded sdk

or mesh particles work too

[robust whale]

but how do so many people upload with the additive shader and it works? it's not a modded sdk i think because 1) the shader is allowed to be uploaded 2) it is inside the vrchat/mobile folder and 3) i've seen avatars for avatar jams (like spookality) with those shaders on quest. I'm sure they wouldn't be allowed in spookality if they uploaded with a modded sdk. Every time I ask another avatar creator that's done particles with additive or multiply shader on quest they say they just used the shader and it worked. Why is it always broken for me?

[pastel storm]

#avatar-help message
I also remember having gotten it to work at times, mostly not in recent times. Or maybe I never did, maybe none of us ever did.
Appearently there's a difference if you use textures or without textures? Or if you use it in a particle system, or on a mesh?
everyone always say modded sdks, but there's official ways. Like, prefab a light, add it to a particle system, upload.
Counts as a particle system and you have light on Quest. Newer SDKs doesn't allow it anymore, and that's unrelated.

[robust whale]

yeah i don't know :( I've tried with textures and without, only works with the shaders in vrchat/mobile but not in vrchat/mobile/particles

[pastel storm]

I give up, censorship is too much. stop that, vrc

[robust whale]

The best alternatives I've found for quest are particles that are simulated in the world (but you can't really interact with them or animate them very much) and physbones with max stretch motion and 0 pull

Physbones will rotate the same direction as your avatar (along their own axis) but will keep their position in the world

They also can be a bit jittery

But they can be easily animated and interacted with

[hot sparrow]

Maybe

[robust whale]

I've used similar physbone settings for avatar followers and intractable plushies that you can place anywhere in the world

I've used the world based particle system for peaceable minecraft blocks and arrows

[grand lantern]

How would i be able to fix this? I'm new to this avatar stuff

[pastel storm]

that dosent matter lol

unless u want a optimized avi that dont matter

[grand lantern]

yeah, im trying to make it quest compatible

[pastel storm]

that still dont matter

it only matters if ur trying to optimize you dont really need to for quest

pluss thats a blender thing

[grand lantern]

so do I publish it? it won't let me convert it to android if im trying

[pastel storm]

just crunch ur textures

swap to andriod build than upload thats it nothing should stop u form switching to andriod ur avi might be to big for quest

but you just have to crunch textures

[grand lantern]

i have absolutely no idea how to do that, so i'll try to look for a tutorial video
thank you!

[pastel storm]

its easy i promise you got this

[grand lantern]

so i crunched them and now its saying this

[pastel storm]

um

what do you mean by crunch did u use a tool or what? @grand lantern

[pastel storm]

no no no no no no

the max size thing to 2048 thing change that to the 1k one for face and body and 512 for the rest

[grand lantern]

like that?

[pastel storm]

yes yes

[grand lantern]

it still wont let me convert though, im really confused

[pastel storm]

also you prob dont have andriod build for unity installed haha

[grand lantern]

ohhh so where would i install that?

[pastel storm]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

the hub

unity hub

not porn hub

[grand lantern]

i uh cant find it

[hardy cairn]

Anyone know of some decent base models for Quest avatars? Human female, free or paid.

[steady idol]

File > build settings

[shrewd nebula]

Anyone know of a frieren or nazuna avatar?

[whole vault]

So a shader set that I have been using lately I noticed on the FAQ says that it is Android/Quest compatible, but "You will need to use the Built-In Render Pipeline". I assume this can not apply to VRChat because of the nature of the SDK/VCC, or is there something else I'm missing?

[flint forge]

VRChat uses the built-in render pipeline, the shaders need to be built for it to function, so yes, it is true, you got lucky with a shader that works without looking.

[whole vault]

So all I would have to do is put the shader on and just hit build? Or is there something special I have to do to make it allow the shader?

[flint forge]

You don't have to do anything special, the SDK has already force changed project settings and those cannot be changed, cause the SDK will just change it back.

[whole vault]

I mean, only one way to find out is to throw science at the wall and see what sticks.

Thank you, Fellow Ta Genju~

[flint forge]

Oh, uh, but you can't use it on an avatar, forgot what channel we are in.

VRChat has a small whitelist for Quest avatar shaders and all of exists in the vrchat/mobile folder for shaders and 2-3 don't work on avatars and are meant for worlds.

[whole vault]

Oh well that is disappointing!

[flint forge]

Quest GPU isn't the best and some shaders can be rough, with no way for VRChat determine how rough.

[whole vault]

Hopefully with them discontinuing support for Quest 1 that they start to uncap the Quest side of things.

[flint forge]

The Quest 1 hasn't been the reason for the cap for sooo long, the Quest 2 is and has been the reason for the cap since last time they made changes years ago.

So no, nothing will change

The Quest 1 was never strong enough and was practically unusable for the last two years.

You will have to wait for everyone to abandon the Quest 2 for any major changes.

[whole vault]

I've always been under the impression that Quest 1 compatibility was the reason for a LOT of the restrictions, with code optimizations being why we got a few of the caps raised a while back. Especially since you look at some of the content that is actively available on the Quest 2 platform, though I suppose curating what shaders can go where is a good idea at the avatar level since that is one of the three angles of attack by griefers.

[flint forge]

Code optimizations can't do much when you don't control the content and for the most part the Quest version is unrestricted.

If any shader could be used on Quest than the performance would fall off a cliff, because too many people just don't care about the performance others have to suffer because of them.

Turning off shaders in the safety setting on PC is a quick way to gain quite a lot of fps back, which would be far worse on Quest since its GPU just doesn't handle all shader instructions as well as PC hardware can, so even if the same raw performance the mobile GPU would suffer doing some things, like transparancy.

[whole vault]

True, but transparency is one of the main qualms about Quest that I have had for the longest time.

[flint forge]

Mobile GPUs forgo having hardware optimized for stuff like transparancy so it can be more power efficient.

[grizzled bone]

I have this issue where my pcvr avatar (has poiyomi shaders) I used vrcquesttools on to make it a quest avatar too, appears white for people. I don't have a lot of knowledge about avatar creation... i tried using standardlite, standard and toon lit and none of them fixed my problem.

And as if thats not funny enough, its super annoying for me to test since i dont have a quest myself and i have to go around and ask people what color my avatar is all the time.

[old cradle]

hi im new to making avatars and idk if i need a reference image to help make one if i do how do i get one?

[steady idol]

you make one

[old cradle]

can you read again what you said didnt help much from what i asked

[steady idol]

you asked how to get a reference image

[old cradle]

oh wait now that i read what i typed and you said i think i get what you said i need to make a image on my own

[steady idol]

yes

[old cradle]

i got no talent in drawing but what should i use when making a reference image that you recommend?

[steady idol]

you can either make one yourself or commission an artist to make one of your character
literally any art program would work
you essentially just need a front and one side perspective (unless your character is asymmetrical) and maybe a back if you need it

[old cradle]

got it thanks

[flint forge]

Last time that happened to me I had a material swap, which swapped to materials on start with shaders not supported, which made them fallback to just being untextured white.

[grizzled bone]

Hmm so what can I do to avoid that?

[flint forge]

Check so your animator isn't swapping to materials with unsupported shaders.
Could just remove the fx animator (since it usually is where that happens), that would test it "quickly".

[carmine fern]

So is the whole detail maps getting removed on upload for quest a bug or a permanent feature?

Also, anyone know how to setup a bullet trail material for quest. I tried, and while it looks fine in unity, it's just a semitransparent beam that goes off to infinity in game

[grizzled bone]

hey im back. thanks for your help. as i dont have much knowledge about character creation etc. in vrchat. do i just disable the animator in the unity project to test it?

[flint forge]

No, it is required, the avatar descriptor should be below that and it is there you want to look.

[grizzled bone]

is it the FX in the playable layers submenu?

[flint forge]

Yes

Could also be the action animator, you'd have to check.

It will turn off any of the non-default things about the avatar though, so this would only be for testing.

[grizzled bone]

apparently now the avatar appears black xD

[flint forge]

Does it appear like that with the Quest shaders when you tried applying it on your own?

[grizzled bone]

it appeared black after i changed the FX to the correct one (premade by vrcquesttools, but idk why it didn't get changed in the avatar descriptor). maybe its because the standardlite shaders is pretty dark on the avatar. ill try to switch back to toon lit and test it

[flint forge]

The Quest shaders are affected by Vertex color, which can make the entire model one color, if the vertex color is black then I think it just makes the entire model black.

[grizzled bone]

vrcquesttools can delete vertex color, i turned it on. ill see how it works now

how can making an avatar quest compatible be so hard -_-

okay now the avatar is all kinds of colors apparently xD

im gonna need a friend of mine who has a quest to better understand what is happening... ill try again tmr, thanks anyways

[dark falcon]

working on a booth model and when i made it quest the blush is like a red block any fixes?

[pastel storm]

well not really

[vapid wasp]

any good cheap leg trackers in stock for use w pcvr?

[late silo]

webcam and april tag is free

[steady idol]

Free as long as printer

There is also visofbt
Kinect with amethyst/k2vr

The cheapest actual trackers is homemade slimevr imu trackers

[vapid wasp]

thanks. difficult to setup?

[steady idol]

20 dollar to 100 dollar depending ob components you buy and use

[steady idol]

Its a webcam and printed qr codes

[vapid wasp]

i heard slimevr are hard to find

so the qr codes have to face the camera all the time

[steady idol]

Yes

[vapid wasp]

hmmmmm

[steady idol]

Its also fairly bad

Id more recommend visofbt or kinect using amethyst/k2vr

Slimevr's only issue is the orders being delayed

But its opensource and you can just make them yourself

[vapid wasp]

which is the easiest?

seems like a webcam or phone should just be able to track easily wo qr codes

[steady idol]

They literally lack depth

[vapid wasp]

true. except for the new iphones.

[steady idol]

Still lack the depth required

The best you get with only a phone is visofbt

There is also a #full-body-tracking

[vapid wasp]

thanks.. i"ll prolly just wait for slimevr to work out its issues.

[steady idol]

Just make your own slime trackers

[low notch]

hey guys, when i try to go from lil toon to vrchat mobile toon lit it turns into this red texture, any idea why?

[runic smelt]

I've been using an android with a depth sensor In the camera array, VISO actually is using it I believe. Cause it's actually working really well. I just need to get a better tripod so I can hold the camera at a better angle.

[vapid wasp]

nice. samsungs dont seem to, but iphones 15 pros do.

[runic smelt]

There are plenty of other android phones that do. I have a phone I use specifically for this purpose

It's an old work phone that I got to keep