avatar-optimization

[calm spade]

Yeah but you didn't join your meshes

[odd mortar]

Am I able to do that in unity?

[tribal ruin]

No, not really. That's why we keep saying to do it in blender

[buoyant holly]

basically everything that's not like adding vrchat components is done in blender

[odd mortar]

yeah that's the thing. These are accesories. Separate entities like knifes, and hats

I can't toggle them in blender

[tribal ruin]

You can import them in blender and combine them with the mesh

Oh, for toggling

[calm spade]

They can just be weight painted to bones and scaled up with the same animations you use to toggle them

I get different skinned meshes for outfits, because that's a lot of bones and constraints, but for single objects, no excuse

[odd mortar]

So what your saying it attach them to the mesh and make an animation that makes them shrink to the point of being imperceptible and then grow to being visible

[tribal ruin]

Basically yeah

[calm spade]

yep, scale their bone to 0

[odd mortar]

huh

ok that might be worth a shot

[calm spade]

kind of the same idea as eye shapes scaled down in head with shapekeys

but with bones

[tribal ruin]

You can technically use shapekeys for this too but that's more expensive for performance

Yeah

[odd mortar]

Would the animation of shrinking and unshrinking the accessory be done in unity or blender?

[tribal ruin]

Unity

[odd mortar]

ok good

Well I'll try it out and see if that does it

[robust anchor]

for non-deforming accessories [e.g. a shield or staff], that don't have a negligible triangle count(compared to the main body mesh), which is better performance wise:

1. merging them into the skinned mesh, weight painted to a bone, with it's own material
2. using a static mesh renderer, on or parented to a bone

[calm spade]

Well if you atlas it doesn't need its own material

but in this case you're asking if one draw call is better than two

[robust anchor]

I'm talking about a case where atlasing the texture is not possible due to using different shaders

[pure bridge]

while it is true that if you need unique shader setups having a different material is good, you absolutely can use a texture atlas for that different material since its just the texture. a hat and a shoe can use different materials but can be drawn on the same texture, just shared. atlasing is still good in this case because it means less overhead is spent allocating space in RAM.

as for which is better, props should work fine with bones. things only get inevitably annoying with clothes. see "How does a shader based system compare to other methods" in https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Manual/Inventory-System

[robust anchor]

my question is more about whether or not, if you can't get around 2 draw calls, having the 2nd draw call be a static mesh would be better than having the 2nd draw call be of a different part of the skinned mesh.
if the difference is negligible unless you get into triangle counts of multiple millions it doesn't matter though

[ruby isle]

Scaling to 0.0001 is a better practice in case anything tries to divide by that scale

[calm spade]

TIL ! Thanks for the info

@odd mortar @tribal ruin ^

[pure bridge]

verts on a skinned mesh are more expensive to render than static meshes, but if youre talking about individual low-poly props then having them set to bone toggles is mroe ideal. see the message above

[ruby isle]

The best practice for this is to assign each object to a bone on the main armature, and then separate the objects to another single skinned mesh. Doing this, you'll have 2 skinned meshes total. Still at good perf rank. Then in Unity, set the bone weights on this second skinned mesh to 1 bone. That way Unity only skins that mesh once, which is all it needs. Then you can modify the bones for the objects any way you want

[pure bridge]

for any single assets that are approachign the amount of triangles found on, say, a quest avatar (5k or higher) id start worrying about spending the drawcall instead

[odd mortar]

What? What did I do?

[calm spade]

slvr mentioned above that scaling bones to 0 is not great, which i didn't know

better to do 0.0001

[odd mortar]

ok

[jovial tartan]

Hm, what i am trying to do is: Lets say i have a tight shirt on an avi, on the arms it clips very badly, so i cut the arm off on the inside and hide it. Problem solved, but i was wondering, what would be best in this case or cheapest in performance, make the removed part a separate mesh or a separate material that i can apply a invisible material to so it disappears until i need it shown

[stray tangle]

I personally use shape keys since I have heard from other sources that they aren't as bad computationally as some people make them out to be.

for a shirt, I'd make a shape key that shrinks parts of the arms and torso down so that they don't clip

[jovial tartan]

Ohhhhhh, i didn't think of that, i would try that!

I would assume i just make the parts of the arms like i normally would and then move all of the vertices into a smaller spot as a shape key?

[stray tangle]

pretty much

you can use alt + s to scale the arm

[jovial tartan]

I will try that, thanks!

[ruby isle]

It depends on the poly count of the mesh as a whole. If you have over 50k polys (or around) then blendshapes begin to start causing heavier CPU performance hits when used. If you aren't 50k or lower I recommend using seperate meshes. Otherwise if you're low poly then blendshapes are cheaper

Another method is to use texture masking and mask out the arms to be transparent in the shader. That is if your texture allows the arms to be masked

[near swan]

Uh, I have a question. I'm making a Robo Fizz model and for some reason it says I've got 27b polygons and that the avatar doesn't contain an animator. When I switch the build to Android it just breaks the SDK

[radiant shadow]

You are on a old sdk if there's no auto fix button for that, enable read/write on your import/fbx

[restive isle]

whats the limits for quest avatars

[radiant shadow]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system scroll way down |

[buoyant holly]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-limitations

[restive isle]

aight thanks

[restive isle]

should this be fine?

[onyx harness]

Drop 400 polys and you'll jump into Medium

[restive isle]

if i drop any lower the hair will look blocky

i guess i can try and lower the clothes

[maiden spoke]

I cant figure this out

[onyx harness]

it's so close though. Cmiiw but medium is the level where you stop being auto hidden

[onyx harness]

More of a #avatar-help thing but it's exactly as it says. Can't have both. If you're upload an avatar remove the Scene descriptor or vice versa.

[maiden spoke]

the problem is, there is no scene descriptor

Or I just cant find it

Also sorry, I ddint know which channel

[heady smelt]

go to ur hierarchy and do "t:script" and just look through EVERY gameobj's components for it

[maiden spoke]

alr

[heady smelt]

and if you see 2 pipeline components

remove both

1 should stay

if the scene descriptor is gonne

[maiden spoke]

Uhh where do I type in t scripts? Still really new to unity

This is only the 2nd one I've uplaoded

[heady smelt]

screencap your entire unity for me

im to lazy to open my project

and it will take ages

[maiden spoke]

Alright

[heady smelt]

ping me next time i dont see sorry

[maiden spoke]

Oh sorry

[heady smelt]

its t:script

or t:scripts

one of the 2

[maiden spoke]

When I type that in, backups comes up and the avatar model

[heady smelt]

look through the componenets of each object for a scene descriptor or a stray pipeline componenet

[maiden spoke]

Whats a stray pipline component?

[heady smelt]

pipeline component on a gameobject thats not accomapnied by an avatar or scene descriptor

[maiden spoke]

so just something that isnt attached to the avatar? Got it!

yep theres no scene thing of any non attached items

[maiden spoke]

Sorry for wasting so much time!

[heady smelt]

dont worry its not like im doing anything productive or should be

[maiden spoke]

fdgbsdf

I guess I cant upload it then

[heady smelt]

make a new project anf import the avatar agin

u probbaly just accidently added a scene one

[maiden spoke]

I've already done that

[heady smelt]

unless the avatar creator was dumb enough to put a scene on it

[maiden spoke]

prob

cause I cant delete anything else

besides lighting

[heady smelt]

it shouldmt stop u from afding or deleting componentys if its in a prefab

[maiden spoke]

whenever i try it jsut says" children of prefab cant be deleted

but i cant delete the whole model

and theres ntohing detached from the model

*nothing

[heady smelt]

just unpack the prefab

rightclick the root of the prefab

and unpack

[maiden spoke]

ohh

Thakn you!

nope!

[calm spade]

You only need a few and then use naraenda's tool to make constraints instead https://github.com/Naraenda/NarasUnityTools

[coarse valley]

do you still need to select legacy blendshapes in 2019 unity?

[calm spade]

Yes

[nova hornet]

how do you stop clipping from gravity on hair without colliders?

[unreal plover]

Get shorter hair

[nova hornet]

It's already short hair

I just don't want it clipping through my face when I look up

[marble ledge]

Hi, I want to migrate some eyebrows to quest, but I use transparency on PC. Quest doesn't support transparency from my understanding so the texture bake fails. What options do I have for porting this to quest?

[unreal plover]

cut it out

as mesh

[marble ledge]

Sorry what do you mean specifically? Like go in and delete the black parts?

Or remove the eyebrows alltogether

[unreal plover]

use the knife tool to cut out the eyebrows without the black parts

then delete black parts

[proper robin]

Basically since you can't have transparency, remove all transparent mesh

Cookie cutter style the eyebrows

As far as eyelashes go, that might look kind of jank so you could draw them on to the face

Unless you really wanted to cut them out

[marble ledge]

Can I mirror the knife tool? If so I can just cut once for both

Nah it doesn't look like it. But the knife tool would work for my purpose. Thanks! With this I think my shape keys would keep working too so I'll probs go with that

[proper robin]

I would save a copy just in case

You might be able to mirror if you use a plug in or turn it on in sculpt mode. Probably not the mirror modifier though

^ take my advice with a grain of salt, I'm very much an amateur compared to a lot of experts

[nova hornet]

You could also try replacing the transparent/black bit of the texture with the skin color/texture so it'd blend in

[buoyant holly]

that it would just look like you're flesh-colored chunks sticking out of your face

[marble ledge]

Thanks Mage, I was also trying that. It's a bit hard to get the exact skin texture, since I have base+normal+metal+ao. I might just go to one of my other models and rip the eyebrows from those.

yeah Rain, that's exactly what it ends up looking like. That may work for other models, just not this one in particular.

[proper robin]

Alternatively you could paint the eyebrows onto the face texture. However, they would use shapekeys

[split flare]

Do you think my armature would move smoother if I converted my mesh to Tris?

[nova hornet]

iirc VRChat doesn't support using quads anyway so it should convert to Tris unless you tell it specifically not to
Edit: at least in the Unity I checked when you have an FBX imported one of the options is "Keep Quads" and it's not checked by default

I'm watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SimRLR_lRcA (Your Skirt SUCKS: Zero to Hero)

But I'm using 2.93, how do I do the depth buffer bit mentioned at 13:30?

[nova hornet]

I doubt you're using the normal+metal+ao on Quest so wouldn't it be fine to just use the base/diffuse?

[buoyant holly]

no it would still look silly because the model has shading

[buoyant holly]

the quest does support the standard light Shader which does have support for all the same apps as the standard Shader

[nova hornet]

Ah because of some personal preferences I'd only use Standard on Quest for like metals and props

[normal nova]

@marble ledge if you want Diffuse + AO on Quest you can simply premultiply them with addend

If you want I can put a simple couple lines of code you can throw in the Blender scripting tab to do that

[heady smelt]

can u get banned for very poor avatars?

[sick timber]

If they are designed to crash people, yes, otherwise (and this will be most cases), no

[heady smelt]

oh ok good

its just i saw a very poor report ft so i wondered thanks though

[scarlet harness]

okay so I want to reduce the number of polygons on an avatar in blender and I saw a video where someone separated by material to be able to work on a single part of the avatar at a time. but the avatar I got only has 1 material so I don't see a way to separate the model into different sections

[scarlet harness]

that's what I tried to do but it took too long and loops extended beyond different parts of the model so it became too manual and after reducing it from 27k to 23 I eventually gave up and used Quick Decimation. but it'd be easier to do if I could separate the mesh into different sections

same for selection more/less

[marble ledge]

hey, so I want to bake the textures on the face of my avatar. On the left is the original, on the right is the bake.
Two questions.

1. Where are the extra meshes coming from? I deleted those. I also made sure their materials were deleted.
2. The eyes and some other materials didn't bake correctly. Is there a way to prepare materials to be baked properly?

[unreal plover]

Do you have an unapplied mirror modifier?

[marble ledge]

I don't fully know how to check that. I assume it's this tab? If it is, I only have an armature modifier.

could this have something to do with my issue? It's a setting under bake

[unreal plover]

Are you sure your bake target has no extra mesh geometry? It might be hidden with H (unhide with Alt+H)

[marble ledge]

yeah, I selected everything and unhid. I don't see anything except the one mesh I'm trying to bake.

[indigo portal]

I have changed the topology to 60% less than the original mesh size, and the avatar size is still at 10.77 What can i do to reduce it?

[calm spade]

Did you crunch your textures ?

[indigo portal]

ah not yet

[indigo portal]

ok, so it hasn't changed anything

[calm spade]

[indigo portal]

is there anything else i can do?

I just atlased the main body materials, but it's still at 13.
I also reduced all the bones that aren't needed for quest compatibility

[calm spade]

You can use the vrworldtoolkit to get a build report of your uploaded avatar

13 materials ?!

[indigo portal]

one material for the body, other materials for extra items like a hat, a cane, a bowtie

[calm spade]

Why don't you atlas the other parts ?

[indigo portal]

i have. The tophat has one material, the bowtie, the cane

the others also have one material

[calm spade]

So how do you have 13 materials

Quest isn't really meant to support avatars with whole inventory systems

[marble ledge]

Hi, I'm using CATS bake and my eyebrows end up very big but everything else ends up small.
On the documentation I see this:

The islands end up super tiny or some object is way too prioritized after baking.

• Apply scale for your objects.
  Source: https://github.com/GiveMeAllYourCats/cats-blender-plugin/wiki/Bake
  What does "apply scale" mean?

[calm spade]

ctrl + A

[marble ledge]

ty, ctrl+a + scale. Let me try now, but that seems like it most likely was the answer.

[normal nova]

👍

[nova hornet]

Try mesh compression too

[calm spade]

You shouldn't use mesh compression on skinned meshes

[nova hornet]

Why's that?

From what I can see yeah it's lossy compression so
it will lose some accuracy on your model and that could be more extreme on skinned meshes

but I haven't noticed anything bad personally using it

[calm spade]

It affects vertex positions, normals/tangents and UVs precision, i really doubt you'd want that on something that is constantly moving and needs to be calculated at runtime for all kinds of things

I guess it depends how much you rely on your normals, for toon models, that may be less important, but still, i've never seen it recommended anywhere or by anyone in the past few years

Sounds like a last resort kind of thing, but I can't vouch for it

[nova hornet]

Not the most accurate but maybe if I "Build and test" once with it off, low, and high, and look at the VRCA file size
I can see how much it actually does for me
versus the quality lost

[calm spade]

I'd recommend removing unused shapekeys before turning on any kind of compression tbh

often we see booth and models from wherever people can find them, have hundreds of shapekeys, that bloats file size a lot

[nova hornet]

Yeah true blendshape optimization isn't done as often as it should

Also not counted in the performance rank but I've heard does effect performance

[proper grail]

It eats verts that should be there to help bend, makes skinning randomly bad

[nova hornet]

If I remember correctly it doesn't remove any verts/decimate etc it "just" stores where they are with lower accuracy

[nova hornet]

Anyhow could do this if I remembered where the test avatar files are stored

[proper grail]

Used to have it memorized, just search for your unity project name one folder up from %appdata%

'%appdata%\..\local\temp' or something

[nova hornet]

Thanks

Seems "Mesh Compression" doesn't effect VRCA file size

and if it does it increases it

by 1kb

[lone tiger]

%appdata%\LocalLow\VRChat\VRChat\Avatars

[silent slate]

hi when i try to atlas a specific model it will become white, why?

[silent slate]

Okie

[reef basalt]

Hey, I have an avatar that I want turned into quest and pc.
I have a base for it but I cant get some of the hair toggles, color toggles and body toggles to work. Can anyone help me?

[proper grail]

Just getting into rotation constraints to turn hair from 30 dynamic bones to 6 but have an interesting problem, the antennae if constrained with the simulate chain rotates exactly opposite of how id like it to. Any quick easy math to have a rotation constraint be mirrored? Just making the weight negative doesnt work and idunno rotation math to manually fill out the constraint settings

[digital wedge]

i think that putting socks over a body doubles the amount of polygons at that place so, anyone has advice on optimizing that? could i just erase the legs and leave the socks there?

[buoyant holly]

yes that's what you do if you don't plan on toggling socks

[onyx harness]

can always use the Legs mesh as the socks and just change the texture

same difference but that'll be the best way to do it imo

[unreal plover]

I would just use an extra dynamic bone for the antenna. Unless you really need to stay under a certain performance limit

[reef basalt]

Hey, I have an avatar that I want turned into quest and pc.
I have a base for it but I cant get some of the hair toggles, color toggles and body toggles to work. Can anyone help me?

[unreal plover]

Toggles aren't recommended on Quest cuz it really eats into performance. Also no fancy shader stuff available

[nova hornet]

You could do what NotA did but just for the antennae/banana peel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggL1eq8D2Q

You make some animations for when you turn left/right, and walk forward/back and left/right

put em in a blend tree and set it up to move between the animations depending on AngularY and VelocityX/VelocityZ

[proper grail]

Ohh, neat but i hardly ever use locomotion.. i just ended up using the ear bones as the constraint source! Something facing vaguely the same direction

[nova hornet]

It goes in your gesture layer not locomotion

[proper grail]

Non humanoid bone, i think fx but dont quote me

[nova hornet]

Considering I have it setup for my hair and ears neither of which I'd describe as "humanoid"

¯_(ツ)_/¯

From what my friends done with 3.0 they say the documentation is just wrong sometimes

[acoustic latch]

This is what VRChat says for the layers https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/playable-layers

[nova hornet]

^

@random tangle You're more knowledgeable here

[proper grail]

I c looks a lil different from last time ive read it. Now says gesture is for bone transforms without mentioning humanoid bound

[random tangle]

In addition, if you want to have an "idle" animation for non-humanoid bones like a tail, wings, ears, etc-- Gesture is where you should put it.

[proper grail]

Oddly specific retcon

But yeah, just used the ears! Couldnt figure out negative rotation constraint

[random tangle]

oh that was probably because of bone normals

it’s rotating the wrong direction because it’s bone roll is backwards

[nova hornet]

From the docs I read bone roll shouldn't matter as long as it's the same for everything

[nova hornet]

Obviously you can't use Poiyomi etc but I'd say you can do fancy stuff with a mix of Standard and Matcap Lit

[coarse valley]

does anyone use naras dynamic bone constraints?

[digital wedge]

I managed to get to 70000!!!

[buoyant holly]

cool

[unreal plover]

Me 😜

[coarse valley]

I should have just pinged lol. Was wondering if your tool works in 2019 unity or something?

This just happens when I try to set up constraints

[unreal plover]

Uhm, it works fine for me. Are you on the latest version of the tool/SDK?

[coarse valley]

latest version of both. Ill try setting up in a new project with just the SDK and tool and see if it still works then

[unreal plover]

Can you check how the constraint looks?

[coarse valley]

guessing tail source should be parent of first bone in the chain not last?

[unreal plover]

Constraints only really work when you have multiple bones parallel to each other that you want to control with one chain of dynamic bones

In this case, multiple hair bones get mapped to the HairPhysics chain

For a single tail adding constraints wouldn't add much

(You can remove the constraints with the [remove constraints] button in manual setup)

[coarse valley]

I see. Thanks for the help.

[distant osprey]

Does anyone know how (of if) its possible to keep transparency by texture baking via CATS? I have a normal png file with alpha channel already included (didnt changed the blender materials)
When i try to bake it, i always get a black background instead of my alpha channel.

I also tried the third last option 'tranparency' but by hitting this button i receive a completly transparent texture ...

[calm spade]

@normal nova ^

[proper grail]

Yeah so when baking with transparency, set transparency to 1 and bake it normally so it doesnt black all the alpha. Than make a seperate bake target that copys over black/white alpha and manually compose it in gimp

[distant osprey]

so no direct way? I see its okay i will jump to gimp then 🙂 Thank you for responding!

[languid fern]

Why is it that I cannot upload this avatar to quest anymore?? Before the new updates to VRCSDK. I could upload just fine. Did you guys decrease the amount of performance a quest can use or something???

[acoustic latch]

The upload button isn't disabled

[languid fern]

oh

i just noticed that Now.

Sorry XD

[normal nova]

If it's not working that might be a bug, unless alpha isn't set up right in Blender

[normal nova]

^ this is how Bake does it, essentially

[proper grail]

its friday and im a few drinks in and i thought that was the bake panel, not cats. my bad

[normal nova]

Bake panel in cats, yeah. I kinda wish I'd called it something else

[sinful vale]

This is my first time making an avatar, would anyone mind telling me how to combine materials/atlas textures?

Alright

Wait they’re gone

What

Where did their message go

[vast osprey]

Wot

WAIT WHAT

Did he just get banned?

[sinful vale]

Yeah um

[vast osprey]

WOTTT

[sinful vale]

It didn’t look like they did anything though

[vast osprey]

I think it was some misunderstanding apparently?

[sinful vale]

hopefully it was..

[vast osprey]

Yeah

[keen maple]

Who knows how to make avatars on unity cuz this my 1st time and I wanna make one my self

so could someone help me

If not that’s fine

[jovial grail]

lookup some tutorials on YouTube

[marble meadow]

As a beginner as well I used vroid to make one you can put it in unity after you finished it

[cinder shale]

I was optimizing my avatar and when I put a material with a quest shader in a certain mesh, It didnt show the texture at all and it was just pitched black (shown below) (shader im using is standard lite)

[unreal plover]

I think quest shaders multiple the texture color with the vertex color. Make sure that the vertex color isthe same white (or gray) for the whole model

[cinder shale]

How can I find vertex colors in my avatar?

[calm spade]

In blender

You can also remove it entirely

[cinder shale]

thank you!

[earnest frigate]

Is it really impossible to upload avatars using mac. I just found this out and I already have a blender file i made on my mac

[random tangle]

bruh

[rigid gull]

Hey, quick question.
I'm trying to make my avatar quest compatible right now, which has been an... adventure.
Going from 69800 polys to 5000 was rough, as were other things.
But after removing some parts of the avatar, trimming things down, et cetera, I'm at 4999.
I'm running into an issue, though.
Two, actually.

1. I'm over bone allowance, and the bones are used for parts I've removed from the base model altogether... I can't seem to nuke them from the FBX file in Blender. Is there a way to get rid of the tail bones, for example?
2. I need to get rid of materials by combining them. Right now, I'm using 4 material slots, and need to find out how to combine those down to 1. And I'm not really sure how to do it.

[radiant shadow]

5k ? excellent is 7500 for quest 🐇 <10k for a fallback if you also want it for pc/quest , for bones just merge em to parents until there's nothing left (or active)

[rigid gull]

Odd, the SDK told me that fallbacks required 5k

[radiant shadow]

How old is your sdk

[rigid gull]

Apparently very

[warped marlin]

is there a way to have particle trails without it costing like 2 material slots each despite the particle system having rendering set to none?

this somehow costs 2

[onyx harness]

No, Particle systems will always count as 1 (2 with the trail module activated). Having 0 Max Particles will count it as 0 but it's not a value you can animate so it's not helpful for effects.

[warped marlin]

damn that sucks, any reason it might be that way though?

doesn't make sense something that doesn't render and/or have any material counts as a slot

[onyx harness]

I'm not sure what it's counting in this case but I don't believe Particle systems were ever intended for logic. Plus, cmiiw, you could upload with the renderer module disabled to reduce material count and animate it back on at runtime allowing you to bypass the material count. I can assure you people abused this if it happened.

[quiet grail]

The polygon count for an avatar is based on the total number of polys if all component objects were active at the same time aren't they? Not just the ones currently active.

[onyx harness]

Yes. Game has to assume all meshes can be visible at once even if the logic won't allow it

[quiet grail]

Hmm.. frustrating, I've got an existing avatar that's in the 60k range currently and if I add stuff to it, even if I swap out, its going to fall over in to the Very Poor Category on polys

[unreal plover]

Just do 2 versions, one and one . The first can be your fallback so everyone can still see it. Just not all the fancy stuff

If you're too lazy to make a quest fallback just upload a x-bot model or something for that platform lol

[heady smelt]

I just made some random thingy from scratch

super low poly

[quiet grail]

I already have a custom fallback but that uses another model entirely. I'm trying to make sure people who have default safety settings don't miss the cool special avatar I'm building for an event next month.

[unreal plover]

How much over poly limit are you? Maybe you can still squeeze it under 70k

[heady smelt]

might have to consolidate on the things on your avatar wit meshs

or dissolve some more edge loops lol

[quiet grail]

I'm -starting- from an avatar at 67k.
I've started already be taking some of the high detail but non-animated bits and doing a little decimation first

that got me down to 48k

which is a much better starting point

[unreal plover]

Ouch, that's still rough

[quiet grail]

Indeed. but I managed to squeeze and stuff a protogen model in to just under 10k for that custom Quest fallback and still keep it looking good.

So this by comparison... XD

[unreal plover]

Yeah, it's still doable compared to someone sending me a 200k poly avatar to be optimized 😂

[quiet grail]

and that started at something like 27k to start with and was... spicy

Ah wait, I tell a lie, only 20k start.

This was how that turned out. Starting NKD type model on the left, 20,806 tris. PC appearance using Poi shader of my fallback centre, 9,880 tries. Quest appearance on the right with basic mobile shaders.

I occasionally have people go '...what happened to all your fluff?!'

[buoyant holly]

I suppose that's one way to do it to delete the fluff instead of dissolving dissolving Edge loops?

[unreal plover]

Low poly fluff is hard 😔

This is how I do it 👀

[buoyant holly]

that works

[wise quartz]

is there any server i can VC With people that build avatars
i kainda need big help but typing will get me no where

[weak imp]

ahey anyone up for a challenge? anyone want to teach smoothbrain how to fix his gfs avatar so he can upload it as a gift?

i got it from a dude who scammed her out of money so imtrying so desperatly to fix it.

[acoustic latch]

The only thing preventing the upload is the shader, which it says how to fix for quest, you need to be using a Quest supported shader, which are the ones that VRChat provides, the rest is going to require blender work if you want more optimization

[weak imp]

what shader tho?

the model is outlined in orange btw not sure if that helps

[acoustic latch]

That should work, but if you changed that and there is still the error about shaders, you have more meshes in the scene that have non compatible shaders

[weak imp]

where do i go to fix that. i retexture avatars and know how to change that.

but idk where in the hierarchy to look

[acoustic latch]

if you click on the Select button it should select the mesh with wrong shader

[weak imp]

there isnt a shader dropdown when i do that

[acoustic latch]

otherwise you could use the scene hierarchy search for t:skinnedmeshrenderer

[weak imp]

that is what i see after i click select

[acoustic latch]

how many meshes are there for the body, is it all one mesh, or are there things that are separate, like tail, ears, hair being their own mesh

and again, try using the scene hierarchy search box for t:skinnedmeshrenderer

[weak imp]

ok i found that the wings are using a standard shader, but its grayed out and wont let me change it

like its locked

[acoustic latch]

you'll need to extract it, you can select the mesh in the project view, then switch to Material tab, and extract materials

[weak imp]

how do i get to project view?

shortcut?

[acoustic latch]

it is the bottom panel, it is named Project

[weak imp]

oh >~> my bad

[acoustic latch]

if you want quicker ways to find your avatar assets, you can do right click and select this

and then right click on the item it selects and click this

[weak imp]

ok so im taking this really slowly im sorry.

ok im here what do i do?

[acoustic latch]

you would just select the material, not the textures, and change the shader. If you can't then you need to extract, which you can do the first part from above to select the asset, and then switch to the Material tab and extract materials

also in that image that you have the texture selected, you will probably end up wanting to crunch compress if you go over the 10MB limit for quest avatar uploads

[weak imp]

ill get that done after this, um how do i extract the materials now?

[acoustic latch]

if you look at the image I sent for that, there is an Extract Materials button that is disabled, because I already clicked it previously to extract materials, you do that

[weak imp]

right clicked and cant extract from prefab

wait my screen doesnt have tabs like those. im not sure if i did this right

[acoustic latch]

This is your first step

[acoustic latch]

Then you look at the inspector, and change to the Material tab like in this

[weak imp]

like this?

[acoustic latch]

yes, but you already have a material set up don't you? One that you can change the shader on? Just assign it to that mesh. If the mesh only has one material, you shouldn't get the error for wrong shader

time to try saving your scene and restarting unity

[weak imp]

ok but the hierarchy for the wings was grayed out too thats why i couldnt alter the shader. are you shaying to swap the materials, change the shader from standard to vrchat/mobile, save and restart?

[acoustic latch]

do as much as you can and save and restart

[weak imp]

ok ill get right back to you

it let me build and publish it thank you so much! i owe you a beer good sir/madaam

[acoustic latch]

Just be aware, because of the performance rating of the avatar, no one will be able to see it without manually choosing to show the avatar on quest

[weak imp]

can i friend you so maybe you can help smooth brain me crunch compress it later?

[acoustic latch]

no, because I am not always available, just post in the discord and if I am available at the time and see it, I will help, or someone else might

[weak imp]

it just needs to function for her. her and i were desperate. she paid $280 this avi and the creator has been nothing but a pain in the neck for the both of us and a few of her friends. the dude cant even test them in vr cause he doesnt even own a headset.

thats fine i really do appreciate the help.

[unreal plover]

To crunch compress:

1. Find the relevant texture(s) in the [Project] window that contains all your files.
2. Select the texture(s), the [Inspector] window should show them.
3. Scroll down in the inspector, there will be 3 buttons: [Default], a PC icon, and an android icon. Make sure Default is selected.
4. Set the following settings:

Max Size   : 1024 or lower (2048 is OK if needed, don't use 4096)
Format     : Automatic
Use Crunch : CHECKED
Compression: Normal/High Quality
Compressor Quality : ~75 (lower this if file is too big, higher if quality is ass)

5. Apply, give it a minute to do the things, and enjoy smaller file sizes

4b. Alternatively you can do it more manually by selecting the PC/Android icon and use:

Format     : RGB Crunched (ETC for Android, DXT5 for PC)

For the other options use the step 4 settings. Feel free to tag me if you need more help

Example:

[cosmic mesa]

What's the current tri limit for avatars?

[buoyant holly]

PC or Quest

[cosmic mesa]

Pc

[buoyant holly]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system

70,000 if you don't want to get labeled very poor but it's not going to prevent you from uploading if you use more triangles

[cosmic mesa]

Awesome thanks 👍

Wasn't sure if the limit had changed or not lately

[buoyant holly]

glad to be of help

20,000 is the number on Quest and very poor avatars on the quest have to be manually turned on

so most folks would just see a fallback Avatar if you have very poor on Quest

[cosmic mesa]

Also good to know, I was thinking of making the PS1 styled version of my avatar the fallback for quest

[buoyant holly]

cool and if you're curious the max triangle count for a fallback avatar on Quest is 10,000

[cosmic mesa]

Great, I think mine is in the 500-1k range

[cold yoke]

huh, neat

[earnest frigate]

Hey there. Trying to figure out how to upload 2D pictures as avatars. I’ve been following this video but I keep getting an error st the end that there is no animator attached to the empty object and front even tho I put the avatar descriptor on?? Help would be much appreciated

https://youtu.be/KzUriyj7Jew

[modern goblet]

Did you have upload a avatar before?

[sick timber]

Avatar Descriptor tells the SDK about the avatar's existence, and how it should function, an Animator is a separate component.

[earnest frigate]

I have not

[earnest frigate]

So then how do i assign an animator to a flat avatar that has no bones since i cant apparently upload without it

[sick timber]

You should be able to upload without it, and an animator can apply to any object

Animators don't just dictate bone positions, also things like an audio source's volume, a sprite renderer's colour, whether or not an object in enabled.

[modern goblet]

Or you can just drag and drop the 2D avatar inside the object of the blue avatar an then set the avatar descriptor in the blue avatar

oh and disable the blue avatar mesh

[lone tiger]

https://github.com/Thryrallo/VRCAvatarTools - so this little tool exists, which gives you a rough calculation of how much VRAM your avatar will take once loaded in. Made by Thry

[heady smelt]

mhmmm atlasting 4 1024x1024 textures perfectly into a 2048x2048

this is what i live for

[buoyant holly]

cool

[regal lantern]

what the different between unity/blender for attaching like ears/tail/hat?

[quartz grove]

Can someone help me upload an optimized avi 🥺👉🏻👈🏻 It's supposed to be optimized already but I think im doing it wrong :( I'd SUPER appreciate the help!

[buoyant holly]

can you show us like the stats when you try to upload the Avatar so we can see how it's unoptimized

[quartz grove]

This ? I'm sorry im SO bad at this stuffs ;-;

[buoyant holly]

basically you just have too much Dynamic bone the simulation going on

[quartz grove]

Do you know how to make it... not? Lol

This is the only red and orange stuff in the avatar stats in game, everything else is green c:

[buoyant holly]

it gives instructions for that in the tooltip

[quartz grove]

What is a tool tip 🤔

[buoyant holly]

https://i.gyazo.com/c8790c076b6ac6652b9bcf17b9de7350.png

[quartz grove]

This stuff?

I'm sorry im not good at this lol I appreciate you helping me so much

[buoyant holly]

I suppose so I haven't really tried doing Dynamic Bones on stuff that has lots of Bones

[quartz grove]

Do you know if this needs to be done on blender or can it be done in unity?

[nova hornet]

You could try using this to lower the bone transform count
https://github.com/Naraenda/NarasUnityTools

[quartz grove]

How do I get that ? :)

[nova hornet]

Dynamic bones can be lowered in Unity but material count kinda needs to be done in Blender

[quartz grove]

I think my materials are good, right? How do I lower in unity?

[nova hornet]

I think You download this and unzip it in the assets folder in your Unity Project
https://github.com/Naraenda/NarasUnityTools/archive/refs/heads/main.zip

[buoyant holly]

they could be better but they're not terrible

[quartz grove]

Can it still be green with the materials I have now?

[nova hornet]

With current materials no
best it can be is Medium

[quartz grove]

Grrrr lol

[nova hornet]

presumably

[quartz grove]

Aighttt I quit lol

[nova hornet]

?

[quartz grove]

Thank you guys for your help ♡♡♡

[buoyant holly]

medium is not that terribly bad

[quartz grove]

I need green for the events I go to :(

I'll probably just pay someone to do this for me in time lol

I'm far too uneducated on unity and whatnot for this stuff lol!

[nova hornet]

For getting the materials down you could make use of CATS atlasing

or if your avatar has a lot of solid colors that are duplicated you can just merge those

You only have 10 materials if you get it down to 8 you'll be good

[quartz grove]

I unfortunately have noooo clue what any of that means let alone how to do it 🤣😅😅😅

[nova hornet]

I believe in you

[quartz grove]

What is cats atlasing and how do I merge my solid colours 🤔

[nova hornet]

Here I'll send some videos and if they don't explain it well enough I'll try to guide you through it step by step

[quartz grove]

I'd be such a bother to get guided through all this stuff :(

[nova hornet]

If that's the case then you can still pay someone to do it for you

etc

[nova hornet]

I could do that

But I doubt you'll be that much of a bother

okay?

[quartz grove]

Okay 👉🏻👈🏻

Thank you 🥺

[nova hornet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUZeBfYbfVo 5 Minute Material Fix old but still useful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTiBaiRLi_E File size optimization Probably not about lowering mats but still
https://youtu.be/D5UdA4uXHqM?t=706 Optimization Tips for your avatar in Blender I skipped to the atlasing bit
https://youtu.be/8MkgXcidxg4?t=315 PC to Quest (2021) Sippbox
Tutorial for Fallback but still shows atlasing you don't have to get it down to 1 material though for a "Good" PC avi

Feel free to dm or @ if the videos aren't enough

Also I'd recommend saving it as a different FBX so you still have the original unmerged materials if something messes up etc

This can be used to copy everything over from your setup one in Unity to the new FBX when you import it

https://github.com/rurre/PumkinsAvatarTools/releases

Good luck @quartz grove

[nova hornet]

In Unity you're most likely attaching it by having one model as the avatar and another for the ears etc
Then just sizing and moving the ears to the head then parenting it to the head bone right?
Which means it's another skinned mesh (Model with bones) and generally people don't merge in Unity
Meaning you'll have multiple skinned meshes on your model
Whereas with Blender it's really easy to merge them so you only end up with one skinned mesh
Which generally doesn't lag people as much

[regal lantern]

lets say i did merge hat with the avatar could i toggle the hat off later

[nova hornet]

Yes in multiple ways

1. You could keep it as a separate mesh on the same armature
2. You could give it itsown bone that's parented to the head bone and merge meshes and then just move/shrink the hat bone
3. You could toggle it by making it invisible with shaders
4. You could shrink/move it with Blendshapes not recommended
   etc

@regal lantern

[last ginkgo]

for quest avatars is there a way to fix culling issues in blender?

[lone tiger]

Duplicate the faces on areas where culling is an issue and flip normals on them.

[last ginkgo]

ill try that

[real topaz]

Hey, I want to optimize my avatar more, but I'm still relatively new to blender does anyone know of good tutorials for material optimoptimirung or can give me A recommendation ?

[nova hornet]

Try these @real topaz

[real topaz]

thanks

[rocky goblet]

why does my crouching look like this in unity...

...but like this in-game?

[radiant shadow]

3.0 ? tracking control not animating certain things

detect prone/crouch then set your tracking control

[rocky goblet]

can you DM me a step-by-step guide or a video pls

[radiant shadow]

check the 2nd layer on that, it detects upright/crouch/prone and sets tracking/viewpoint (some tweaks might be needed its bit old now)

[rocky goblet]

It's working, thx!

[slender brook]

does anyone know the name of tool for unity to make custom shape poligon

[unreal plover]

It's really better to do it in Blender, but if you need a simple shape quickly you can use ProBuilder in Unity

[last light]

So I got into a rant with someone on Reddit about atlassing materials and it led me to do some testing. 😄
I was tired of seeing "8192x8192 textures = lag, atlassing bad! :("

Here is my results from the same avatar before and after atlassing the textures:

Atlassed: (2 materials)
CPU frame time: 0.5ms
Render thread time: 0.2ms
Batches: 11
SetPass calls: 11
Texture size on disk: 10.5 MB (Has some white space > Bigger file size)
Texture dimensions:

• 8192x8192
• 4096x4096

No Atlas: (8 materials)
CPU frame time: 0.7ms
Render thread time: 0.4ms
Batches: 55
SetPass calls: 35
Texture size on disk: 8.63 MB
Texture dimensions:

• 110x84
• 2048x2048
• 288x265
• 1024x1024
• 1024x1024
• 1024x1024
• 2048x2048
• 4096x4096

The avatar is 69,100 polygons, has 1 skinned mesh renderer, and 1 dynamic bone component controlling 13 bones, no colliders. Note that these results are in an empty Unity scene with a directional light and a camera, some of the frame time will go to that. Only use these results to compare to each other. 🙂

TL;DR:
In this instance, there was about a 20% increase in disk file size (Same will likely be for VRAM), but, a decrease of 50% on the GPU frame time and around 30% on the CPU frame time. It's a trade-off, but it's not a bad deal IMO.

All said and done... She do be cute tho.

[proper grail]

can get rid of the increase with a 8192x4096 atlas. They dont have to be square, just to the power of 2. Nice!

[heady smelt]

vram is really the only cost but yeh worth it

[calm spade]

Not worth using this much vram, no one said atlasing was bad, it's just bad when you go up to 8k

especially for an anime model

also noting your UV stretching on your shirt, which tells me your UVs are really not optimal, which means wasted space in the UVMap to begin in

[languid quartz]

I think the main issue is the average GPU has about 6 - 8 GB of VRAM, and once you run out of VRAM then performance will suffer a lot.

[last light]

Oh that's just scuffed weight painting. 😄

Just copied weights from body then did some minor fixes.

I make like 2 avatars a year, it's not a big enough concern to fix.

[calm spade]

Still unsure how you need that many textures in the first place, care to show what the atlas looks like ?

[last light]

I imagine lots of wasted space, give me a moment.

Oh yeah, LOTS of wasted space.

[calm spade]

[last light]

Different materials so 2 different atlasses, could have been one.

[heady smelt]

oh n o

not cats atliasing

[last light]

^^

CATs atlassing!

🔥

[heady smelt]

burn it with fire/

[last light]

I mean... Looking at it, I can relate. 😄

[heady smelt]

why does your model use 2 face textures that seem identical

[last light]

But at the end of the day, it gave the performance benefits I expected and had performance decreases in the expected places.

[last light]

You know, I have 0 idea.

Actually, you know what? I do know.

I saw this when I was importing the individual textures before.

The none-atlassed model had 2 different face textures, like the eyes were a different material or something...? I guess I forgot to change them to all one texture for the atlas.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[heady smelt]

little did they know if they wanted to change the eye color

they can just crop out the eye part of the texture

[last light]

I'll be real... I made this avatar like a year ago. 😄

I've learnt a lot more since then.

[heady smelt]

oooh

[calm spade]

yeah, all that could be a single 4k atlas

[last light]

Do you have a recommended guide/tutorial on atlassing manually?

That could be super useful going forward. 🙂

I'm afraid my Blender knowledge is super limited still, but I am trying to learn it for some work on a world. 👍

[last light]

I suppose then you could have GPU instancing even if you had 2 materials?

Or wait... Maybe I'm just confused.

[calm spade]

If they're on the same mesh that sadly does nothing

[last light]

Oh, interesting!

Also... It's obvious but to clarify: The graphics side of Unity is something I rarely touch. I just made the comparison as some actual results to put into the "atlassing bad" or "atlassing good" argument. 2 identical avatars, one in the typical MMD state before atlassing, one after CATs has screwed with it. 😄

[calm spade]

https://youtu.be/OVPaGRaOxoU

Yes, less drawcalls is better generally, but not at the cost of vram

[last light]

We are trending to 8GB being the norm though! 👍
It's a shame it's not 11GB though.
The SteamVR compositor alone eats up a lot with modern headsets. 😓

Though there's likely on 6GB usable on an 8GB card when in VR as a result of that.

[calm spade]

And now put 80 people in an instance

[heady smelt]

I usually manually atlas my textures and then do ratio math of the dimensions of the original texture to the dimensions of the new atlas to figure out how much I need to scale the UVs

if that makes sense

[last light]

🔥

I'm not sure that'll ever work really... 😄

[calm spade]

It can, just not with poorly optimized avatars

[heady smelt]

hiding avatars by distance would also be a neat feature for big worlds with lots of people

if someone wants to choose to opt in on that

[acoustic latch]

that wouldn't help with vram though

[last light]

^ Still loaded, yeah.

[calm spade]

avatars is only one thing, there's IK and voice, and all other kinds of data

[last light]

Otherwise you'd get a hitch.

If textures unloaded and had to reload.

[heady smelt]

oh so once its loaded its stuck in your vram until when?

you leave the instance or the other user does?

[acoustic latch]

Was sure it was supposed to clear after a certain amount of time, or when whoever is using it leaves, but idk

[last light]

Do we still have the 'change 2 worlds before cleanup' thing?

To avoid the unload hitch?

@calm spade (Sorry for @. :p)

[calm spade]

Nope, it's much more dynamic now

[last light]

Sweet!

[calm spade]

and faster to unload

[last light]

🔥

I have to say though... I'm really sad that newer GPUs don't all come with 11GB of VRAM.

Like 8GB is no longer acceptable.

[heady smelt]

me with 4GB

[last light]

People want to do 4K gaming, VR, etc.

Me with 24GB. 😅

[heady smelt]

4k gaming with vrchat funny joke

[last light]

I mean... VR kinda is 4K, right...?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[heady smelt]

ig

its alot of pixels

somehow my poor laptop can handle pcvr

vrchat pcvr

[last light]

Index is apparently 1440x1660 per eye. That's a combined 2880x1660. That's 4,780,800 pixels.
'4K' (UHD, 2160p) is 8,294,400 pixels.
'2K' (QHD, 1440p) is 3,686,400 pixels.

So I guess Index is just over QHD actually, by a 'mere' a million pixels. 🤷‍♂️

Realistically, you want a GPU capable of 120 FPS gaming at QHD for the Index I guess.

People forget how resource intensive VR truly is. 🙂

[heady smelt]

pfff resource intensive? "It works on my end"

[last light]

"24FPS is fine d00d, just deal with it". 😄

I have no idea how people play when it's more motion smoothing artifacts than game, that'd make me very sad.

[heady smelt]

idk

i blame the edgy teenagers

[radiant shadow]

g2 > 9,331,200 pixels just controllers meh

[last light]

Index at 150% is 4320x2490. That's 10,756,800 pixels. 😄

That is now 20% over 4K.

There's a funny story there actually. I hit the digital resolution limit of my 3090 when I tried a PiMax 8KX as I have 2x 4K displays outside of VR.

Who was that thing even designed for? It can barely run anything on a 3090 at native resolution, hardware doesn't exist to run it. 🤷‍♂️

It is 3840 x 2160 per eye. 😄
Combined, it is 16,588,800 pixels.

[heady smelt]

for those people with like quad gpu setups ig

[woven fable]

Has anyone checked how much blend shapes impact avatar file size as well as performance weight

And i mean extreme case

Not like 20 - 30 i mean 200 - 400 blend shapes

This also includes a question about max texture size for atlasses i want like 1024 x 1024 texture attlases that gives me 16 max textures if max size is 4098. Can it go beyond?

Like would unity struggle pulling 8k?

Or should I gave up and put a second mesh render and material

To be exact i need 20 textures so it is 4 above the damm limit

[forest fable]

don't know about filesize, but they can be awful for performance

one of my older avatars, is medium ranked, and has a single skinned mesh, and I used blend shape for all my clothing toggles

that avatar performs worse than my worst very poor avatar

i've since fixed it up to remove blend shape toggles and just toggle meshes regularly, and the difference is about 2-3 ms gpu frame time when looking at the avatar 1m away on a 1080

[woven fable]

Damm

So i need to get to ground work again

[forest fable]

its generally recommended now to keep blend shapes to a minimum, and to keep them on separate meshes when possible.
ie. head mesh with all the associated blend shapes, and another mesh for the rest of the body etc

[woven fable]

Yeah i think about devision of that which would solve both the material and performance issues

[forest fable]

they're also more expensive to constantly keep active, so if you're using blend shapes to change how your avatar looks permanently, its better to bake those transformations in blender.

that's probably the main reason why that avatar of mine performed so poorly, as it had a ton of blendshapes constantly active hiding clothes etc

[woven fable]

I thought of using blend shapes to transform clothing as in change the collar shape or sleeves length

I think i will keep it to minimum and use alpha cut out with material swapping

[forest fable]

honestly, a few here and there isn't so bad, just don't go too overboard, and keep in mind how many tri's that mesh has

[woven fable]

It is low 20k for clothes

The whole model is around 45k

[forest fable]

my example is an extreme case with a single 69.9k mesh with a ton of blend shapes so

[woven fable]

Nice.

You should have aimed for 69 420 poly

i couldn't resist

[forest fable]

69998, i really wanted to be medium

[woven fable]

I see. I will have to do some dark magic with the normal map and textures

I want to use those instead of poly for increase details

Thanks for help

[forest fable]

i'd also grab this handy tool by Thryrallo that estimates how much vram your avatar uses https://github.com/Thryrallo/VRCAvatarTools/releases

[woven fable]

Thx

[calm spade]

Reminder to not use shapekeys for toggling things on and off when they can be weight painted to a single bone instead

[buoyant holly]

so would it be more optimized to hide like blushing and other sorts of anime expression enhancers in Bones

[calm spade]

For expressions shapekeys are fine, it's low poly geometry that's isn't constantly active

[woven fable]

My case is to use the shape keys to change clothing shape not hide.

[calm spade]

yeah, that should be bones then

[forest fable]

there's an author on booth that makes models that uses bones for all their expressions, model has 1000+ bones
the expressions look amazing as a result though

[heady smelt]

I know Blendshapes do have a pretty decent impact on filesize generally the more you have but I dont know what about a blendshape makes it take up more or less

Ive had someone delete blendshapes and go from a 29.9MB fbx to a 3.3MB one but they must of had some broken one or something

[proper grail]

unique position in space per vertex

[heady smelt]

so generally the more vertices blendshapes control the higher the filesize?

[radiant shadow]

(its for setting up new visme)

[heady smelt]

thats how people do it?!?

how do you even set up all those bones

[lone tiger]

I have one example...🥴

Thry's tool shows that as VRAM usage

[calm spade]

That's way too many bones lmao, even AAA game rigs don't have this many

[solid smelt]

Gotta simulate every muscle fiber of the face 😔

[calm spade]

In a toon model

[radiant shadow]

Yet to see anyone use that model , its on booth, really hope they made it into blendshape then remove em after 🐇

[heady smelt]

so that explains why some models I have got like a million bones

[ruby isle]

This would perform even worse than if you just used Blendshapes

[radiant shadow]

That was not what i ment, create gestures into blendshapes by using the bones, when got enough what they want remove the bones after (really have to spell it out for you)

Some xna models come with a ton of facebones like that , move bones save as shapekeys, do a few, remove em after

[lone tiger]

This explains why CATS has "Pose as Shape Key" option when in Pose mode, in order to making shape keys using this method quicker.

[ruby isle]

I suppose those people don't know about proportional editing?

[solid smelt]

Bones are better as it isnt destructive editing like proportional editing

[heady smelt]

also proptional editing isnt really gonna cut it well for the mouth expressions

[ruby isle]

Shape Keys aren't destructive. Basis is always where you started

[ruby isle]

I did full Vive Face Tracking for my avatar using proportional edited shape keys

[heady smelt]

that seems difficult

[ruby isle]

I do actual game programming so it's something I do often

[solid smelt]

That's not what I mean, if you move vertices with proportional editing you won't be able correctly put it back a easily as moving a bone back

[ruby isle]

Blend To Shape in Blender resets a shape key's selected verts to Basis

[solid smelt]

Whatever floats your boat dude. Just telling you why most game studios use bone facial structure. Better for most uses, easier to animate

I'd use the bone facial structure but just doing it quick job with proportional is easier and quicker

[ruby isle]

I mean, I feel like using Proportional Editing on a few verts is easier than selecting 50 bones to move the mouth =P

[solid smelt]

The mouth is at most a dozen points? Can't remember the correct anatomy off the top of the head

If you ever see someone animate a face with good rigging you'll see why its just better than proportional/blendshapes

[ruby isle]

I would also imagine this bone process would add on a LOT of work for the rigging portion of the pipeline, which would not be ideal for a professional game company with a harsh deadline

[solid smelt]

Facial structure is a mandated part of the rigging pipeline, if the character has facial animations they will have a facial rig

It's just how it works, I've only seen one or two games use a blendshape approach

[ruby isle]

Nothing like what's in the image you posted I've ever seen

[solid smelt]

I'm not talking about whats in the image, that's an overengineered nightmare made by a hobbyist. I'm talking about actual game assets

[calm spade]

big studio movies have rigs like the above, but that's because they're worth millions and can't afford to look bad

[ruby isle]

Oh yeah movies do some crazy stuff. Videogames, however, can't afford the performance for that specific rig

[stray mango]

Heyo, so um... I'm new (like really new. First 3D character model ever new) to this. But, I've been making a personal model for VRC I intend on just having as a personal, non-clonable model.

I've been using the CATS Blender plugin for some extra ease in making this specifically for VRC and I'm at a point where I'm pretty sure I'm nearly read to export into Unity, but, I heard somewhere as well that there's a stipulation for texture optimization in Unity where it only allows up to four model textures as a whole? Is this true? Is there any intuitive way I could merge all these into only four texture images? (I have the actual body mesh masked off underneath where the clothes are on the body so I'm guessing that makes that bit easier)

'Cause for the time being I have all of these I'd have to manage to either merge, or disable (I'm guessing, like for the arms and torso for instance, since those are covered by the hoodie.)

[heady smelt]

there is no such thing

[stray mango]

TL;DR is this necessary? Do I need to merge these down into four textures? Is there any particularly intuitive way to do so?

[heady smelt]

the closest thing I could think you may of heard, is that you need 4 materials (I guess 4 textures then) for your avatar to be considered Poor perf ranking on Quest

[stray mango]

Ohh... so that only applies to Quest baking? :T

[heady smelt]

it isnt a requirement for the quest although you should atlas anyways for both builds

4 materials is a good goal

anymore than 10 and you probably just didnt want to bother or dont know how to make it any better for avatars

[stray mango]

I personally have an Index so I'm not too concerned with Quest optimization. But yeah, how would I do that? Cause... That's a lot of textures atm.

[heady smelt]

i wouldnt use the CATS automatic atlasing tool I hate it because it tends to leave alot of empty space on the atlas thats wasted and sometimes it tries to fit more than it can on a given atlas that causes some textures to lose resolution

I usually manualyl do it with photoshop making a 4096x4096 or 8192x8192 img and dragging each new texture as a new layer onto it until i arraged all the textures i want

and then when I take it back to blender I have to move around the UV mapping so that it fits this new atlas

[stray mango]

Ohh, is that why there's so many? 'Cause realistically I only see about 8 applied textures on this model.

[heady smelt]

idk what u mean by why there are so many

[stray mango]

That's from the CATS atlas screen.

[heady smelt]

oh

i still lost

[stray mango]

But like to be fair, all the M_AMBs easily can be merged 'cause those are all separate pieces that all apply to the same hoodie mesh.

[stray mango]

I was asking 'cause you said this:

[heady smelt]

the cats tool isnt why there are so many

it would still atlas and reduce materials and textures

does a shitty job at it in my experince though

[stray mango]

Just trying different methods. CATS atlas managed to merge all those seemingly properly into six materials in this atlas.

[calm spade]

Make sure the same texture isn't being used across multiple meshes

[honest lotus]

so im trying to bake the textures using cats blender but it says no meshes found?

[cosmic plover]

Wdym "bake the textures", do you mean atlus them? Cus atlusing is under optimization

[sick timber]

You can bake things like lighting or higher detail geometry into textures such as normal maps for lower poly models

[buoyant holly]

like that's basically how all AAA game character models work is a stupidly high-poly model baked into normal maps of a more low-poly model

https://helpx.adobe.com/content/dam/help/en/substance-painter/using/baking/jcr_content/main-pars/image/sp_doc_normal_map_example.png.img.png

[sick timber]

Normal maps are truly magical (until you learn and understand the maths behind them)

[elfin inlet]

Normal maps are a godsend. Esoecially if your using a shader that can merge multiple. Same with detail textures. Both save a ton of polycount and texture space

[heady smelt]

it truely is poggers

i need to learn how to do this kinda magic specifically with N

[gloomy stratus]

how do i know if my model is full body tracking compatible without the device kit?

[earnest frigate]

Trying to texture the eyes of this model and I turned on symmetry but it seems like other eye isn't taking in the texture correctly?? What can I do??

[gloomy stratus]

the uvs have to be on top of each other

for the parts you want with the same texture you're painting

[earnest frigate]

Really hard to do when the texture I'm trying to put on the model gets separated into different parts of the UV

[solid smelt]

How the hell are you unwrapping the sphere? I would just have a single seam from the top of the sphere to the bottom going down the back of the eye

Also if two meshes are identical they will unwrap to the same position if you unwrap them individually

[earnest frigate]

Ah I see, sorry Im a huge beginner so this is all new to me. The eyes are one mesh should I seperate them and then seam them??

[solid smelt]

No dont separate them, just select all of one eye, unwrap, then select all of the other eye and unwrap it

[gloomy stratus]

how do i know if my model is full body tracking compatible without the device kit?

[cosmic plover]

there are cheap ways to do a jank FBT for a test, Driver4Vr is only like £15 and you can use a webcam as a camera for testing as an option

or if you have 5 phones with gyro slime vr is a thing

[ebon dust]

xbox kinect can only do 180 degrees and has lots of latency ,so i'd go against doing that

but i cant stop anyone,its just my opinion

[cosmic plover]

remember testing != general useage

wouldnt recomend useing kinect/markerless camera as a primary FBT solution
its good for a quick test tho

[ebon dust]

true

[gloomy stratus]

like im making a model and want it to be FBT compatible, i'm good if i just follow the instruction on vrc, or i need to test it with the kit?

[cosmic plover]

you can just risk it yeh, and aim for it to be correct

[gloomy stratus]

i need someone to test it for me lol

[old coral]

Hi, can anyone say if vroid avatars come optimized, or if I want my avatar to be visible to everyone I should do it entirely in blender?

[buoyant holly]

there's plenty of optimization you can do in vroid itself

as it has a button to combine material and delete any completely transparent triangles so you just make all the body under the clothing transparent

[heady smelt]

they just realeased a new big update too

[vivid marten]

I was trying to upload an avatar and this happened I dont know how to fix it

[acoustic latch]

I think this is from Poiyomi Shaders, go to each material and manually lock them, then try uploading again

[vivid marten]

Ok ty

[heady smelt]

who else good gang

[ruby isle]

Excellent gang is superior

[heady smelt]

Maybe once avatar dynamics is here, can't go with absolutely no dynamics

[ruby isle]

With a male avatar I have the 'animated dynamic hair'

0 dynamic bones and the hair still moves

[heady smelt]

It's probably a .anim file.

I could probably just animate the hare and on my blend locomotion

and then give it an idle animation

maybe I'll do that

i could also animate my bell based on angularY velocity

Stop giving me ideas I'll never be done NOOOOO

[ruby isle]

That's what it is essentially

[heady smelt]

i cant i need sounds

i have plans for the other 2 sound slots

while staying good

[ruby isle]

Why do you need sounds

[heady smelt]

Maybe I'll make a Excellent one without purring

[ruby isle]

Any sane person has avatar audio at 0%

[heady smelt]

Purring, Bell Jingle, and in the future keyblade slash SFX + keyblade spawn SFX

[ruby isle]

I'd sacrifice those for excellent anyday

[heady smelt]

Good is still green

I'll stick with good so I can still do cool things

[ruby isle]

No star then

[heady smelt]

I'm optimal enough

[ruby isle]

Technically the stats mean nothing really

[unreal plover]

Audio sources count to performance because there is a maximum of active playing audio sources. It might seem negligible, but with 30+ people it will eat into performance, since AFAIK audio still runs single threaded.

[fervent orbit]

does material swapping increase material slot count?

[radiant shadow]

Nope

[fervent orbit]

neat

what is better, some shader or a single spritesheet particle for displaying animated textures?

[signal narwhal]

can you do hue shift on quest? I have a poiyomi puppet to change hue of a material

[proper grail]

no hue shift, the closest thing allowed is to set a bunch of Standard Lite\Color parameters in an animation and cycle through them with a expressions menu float radial puppet attached to an animation state Motion Time

horray for answers that are more jargon than english buh

[heady smelt]

thats scary

i never ever heard someone say the word 'jargon', just learned about it today and then someone just uses it

[wheat lava]

im trying to follow a guide which should fix like colliders towards body / arms, only issue is i dont have a secondary thingie in my unity under my avatar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGG3txVs9j8

its pretty much this one

she has this

i only got 'body' not secondary so my question is

how do i get this to work, like can i just add the scripts to 'body' instead ?

by scripts i mean the spring bone

[ruby isle]

This person who did this tutorial doesn't really know how to do VRChat stuff right lol. Do you use Dynamic Bones?

[wheat lava]

i see yeah, i mean well to me it rather seems that the invidual forgot to generalize it and made it specificly for specific set models with set names / groups etc, i kinda gavve up on it tbh cus it messes my char completly just trying to and i think im missing alot of bones ? im not sure but

my body structure bones is like, ''chest'' and no children under it kinda, like no left boob or right boob or how to say :p

it has arms in details but ye

so what i did with my models is that i started them through vroid like 5months ago (before some big vroid update that just happened recent) and then i gone through blender to use CATS to fix bone structure and visame and so on, to then go into unity and then my bone structures are like this, tho it doesnt mess with my char like in VR headset my char works just fine ( few things that could be better ) but it works, like there is no dysfunctional bone movement etc like that

few things i want to fix or learn to is, my feet keeps gathering together so tightly it looks weird when i stand sometimes, when i lay down my hands clip through my body ( tho is not too much like i can live with it cus its mostly just if i have my hands down ), and another thing i found bothering is that

when i stand up it feels almost as if my shoulders need to be more forwardly for my arms to not clip through so much in standing position with arms down, but im not sure if its just me or not, from side it also kinda looks weird cus like half arm clips a bit

[ruby isle]

The tutorial there is only to avoid clipping with dynamic boobs with arms, not clothing. Clothing clipping should be fixed in Blender using weight painting

The legs and arms are a common issue with VRoid avatars, and can be fixed in Blender

[wheat lava]

so since im not using a female char anyways is kinda not relevant, i see, so i perhaps should rather look towards weight painting my char i guess

i see yeah especially with the feet being too close, its something if i move <- and -> with legs a bit and then angle them a bit it should fix the feet gathering too close ?

[spice snow]

So I have a question, so let's say I have a avatar with clothing and weapons that I want togglable. Is there a way I can make them toggle and not be different skinned meshes?

[heady smelt]

yee u can make bones that have the sole purpose of showing or hiding a weapon. For example, a bone that has a sword max weight painted to it, and when its scaled super far down its invisible inside your hand/arm, but when its scaled up proper its on

blendshapes also work but they can get cpu intensive i think

[spice snow]

AHHHH the bone way actually makes since. Yeah I figured blendshapes would work I just wanted to see if there was a more optimized way of doing it. Thank you!!

[hushed reef]

Why did it do this? How do I fix it?

[solid condor]

e

[wheat lava]

any ideas ?

is like my texture is too small for the shoes tho it just seems very odd because i have another project with the same model in same height and same feet etc etc, where they are just fine, i even tried to drag texture from that project into this, but still this same result

im using opaque aswell, no transparent or any

• fixed myself doing adobe photoshop stretching the stuff under the shoes, tho i still wonder how this happened

[tawny escarp]

i see avatars with trails on each of their fingers, is it possible to have this without having 10 trail renderers taking up 10 whole material slots?

er- or is there a way to do this without tipping my avi over the medium perf rating?

[swift ibex]

my avatar doesnt have crouch/prone animations. ive encountered this issue before but i never figured out how to solve it

[ruby isle]

Yes but it's very involved and complex to do. You're better off just using the 10 trails

[swift ibex]

@lunar stirrup so im having issues with the crouch/prone anims

i've encountered this issue before but never fully figured out how to fix it

[lunar stirrup]

Damn I knew a fix for that

Oh yeah

Fingers

Or just bones in general

If you’re missing an essential bone you won’t have full IK

[swift ibex]

i see

my avatar doesnt actually have fingerbones

or well fingers

i didnt think this would cause issues when trying to crouch/prone

[lunar stirrup]

You need finger bones yeah

[swift ibex]

oof

is there a way to dummy finger bones?

[lunar stirrup]

Just make some in blender, easy to do

They don’t need weights

[lone tiger]

You don't need finger bones for SDK3 avatars

[swift ibex]

this is not sdk3 :(

[lunar stirrup]

Yep exactly the issue lol

[lone tiger]

Well then there is your problem

[swift ibex]

ok so ill dummy some finger bones in blender

[swift ibex]

so maybe adding hand to the rig is out of my reach

i have no clue how i would go about attaching hands to the other armature

bit of a headscratcher

wait, i think i did it

[swift ibex]

@lone tigerdo i need to map the fingers in unity?

sorry for ping

[echo geyser]

yes

[heady smelt]

gang

[half crypt]

I need help combining all the textures on an avatar into one material

Currently there are 13 materials and to optimise the avatar really should condense them down to 1

[radiant shadow]

Blender, bake or matcombiner (dont recommend cats one it gives odd resolution ones last time i used it anyway)

[manic zodiac]

my avatars are usually this

which... isnt bad for a vroid with no dynamic bones

[onyx harness]

You can run some dynamics and still be

Heck you can run a couple components and be

[languid wave]

which version of VRoid are you exporting from and how many layers of hair do you have?

in CATS you can go all the way from 8 materials down to 1 if you generate a 2048x2048 texture atlas and setting Face to 100 on polygon reduction is basically a free 2K polygons saved

even at 100, the face mesh still has so much detail that each polygon is less than 2 pixels in size next to the camera

using CATS to generate a texture atlas and combining every material allows you to preserve all of the detail while cutting down on draw calls, which is a straight shot to avatars

[languid wave]

but does it run better than 10 trails?

[bleak quartz]

Is there anyone way in-game to check how my fallback avatar looks? I've done a couple fallback and it would be nice to not rely on other people to tell me if it turned out ok.

[manic zodiac]

I plan on going back into vroid at some point and atlasing the face if not on my own, then via vroid. They have tools to drop the number of materials

[languid wave]

W h i c h
V e r s i o n

[manic zodiac]

The latest version-

[languid wave]

it’s easier to use CATS to do it because then you get a higher-quality texture atlas

[nova hornet]

You could in theory set it to be public for a minute let someone clone it make sure they set it as fallback and use safety settings to view it as the fallback?
or you could upload just the fallback avatar using the "Build & Test" option etc

[ruby isle]

Somewhat. Overall I believe so but like I said, it takes a ton of setup and isn't really worth it since it only improves by a small amount

[bleak quartz]

Huh that's true, I'm not sure why I didn't think about the 2nd part whoops, thanks for the help!

[heady smelt]

Just wanted to start by saying sorry if this is the wrong channel. Hey guys, recently I got a VRC Avatar for the first time that was pre-made. Going into it I thought there would be some documentation to help me get it into the game, and once I realized there wasn’t I got a friend to help me out. I have a version of the avatar done to my liking but it has a problem, the head sinks into the character and like into the ground. It’s super screwed up for some reason, contacted the artist a couple days ago and still haven’t received a response to fix it. I also tried the same model in its original state with no modifications on it like glasses and it had the same issue. Again I don’t know anything about modeling, barely understood how to even put it together. So if someone can help me out it’d be appreciated, I can send screenshots etc but since there id a no redistribution clause in the artist’s ToS I can’t be sending it around. Thanks y’all.

Feel free to shoot me a message as well if that makes it easier.

[modern basalt]

you'd probably want to post your question in #avatar-rigging, this channel here (#avatar-optimization) is to improve the performance of avatars

[pure bridge]

first of all, i would check first to make sure your view position (in the VRC avatar descriptor) is set up properly. else, i would ask the people at avatar-rigging and maybe provide a couple of screenshots. second of all, there is plenty of official documentation to get the avatar in-game which i dont understand why the artist didnt include a readme linking to it or a basic description of what to do to get your avatar uploaded. you can read it here:

[heady smelt]

Will do

[pure bridge]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/setting-up-the-sdk

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/creating-your-first-avatar

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/what-is-avatars-30

but you really only need the 2nd one right now if you already h ave a project set up

also check out this if you need video-guides instead of text guides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTlZXDJueks&list=PLt8qiEFqNHFkPqpKLnVRx-G78mGvjPbFt

[heady smelt]

Sure, sounds good. Before moving to the other channel I’ll quickly provide a screenshot. This is really helpful so far though thank you 😭😭

It really probably is just the view thing but I remember my friend mentioning that and we did something to the model and it didn’t end up working. I remember he said something abt a Prefab tho.

Model was done in Blender from what I’ve gathered so there’s that too but yeah. I’ll take a look at this stuff and send a screenshot asap.

Yeah so here's what happens to the model, makes zero difference if I'm in VR or not btw.

[elfin inlet]

Oh its ghostlys shark. You'd might want to check the help channels on ghostlys discord. I dunno what it is about that av but it's super allergic to being modded for some reason, that isnt even the worst collapse I've seen. Normally it works fine uploaded straight from the scene file tho.

[heady smelt]

Will do, yeah that’s really strange 💀💀💀

Just gonna join that on my other acc or some and figure it out, appreciate the tips guys!

[old coral]

Hey, so how do you guys store your avatars? Do you make any changes after optimizing them, or do you keep the detailed version, edit that, and optimize every time before updating?

Or keep separate detailed and optimized versions of meshes, so you don't have to optimize everything for every change and delete and merge them before exporting?

[calm spade]

What do you mean by "optimized"

[unreal plover]

Keep everything in the same .blend file and use collections to organize stuff

[old coral]

I was thinking polygon count, that takes the most time to reduce since you have to do it manually if you want the avatar to still look good.

[calm spade]

Oh, whether people start of sculpting in blender or zbrush, they'll keep the high poly mesh for detail and then bake that down onto the lower poly retopologized version of it

[buoyant holly]

and folks would probably be doing any modifications like adding clothing/accessories on the final low-poly version

[heady smelt]

Fixed it btw

[modern basalt]

Polygon count limits aren't as severe as some years ago, most models should be fine without decimation now

[buoyant holly]

unless you're trying to make models for the quest which basically has the old vrchat limit for PC as its current limit

[heady smelt]

Hello, so I got an avatar from someone and when I try to upload it it says there is 72 materials but I have no idea how to combine them or if i should delete any of them, can anyone help me with that?

[calm spade]

Can you import it in Blender ?

[heady smelt]

I tried to but i don’t know if I did it right, and once I did it looked really off

Idk if it’s because of me or how the person made the avatar though

I did get it in blender at one point to combine the materials but it said “no materials combined”

So idk

[calm spade]

Before you do that, you should remove unused materials

[heady smelt]

Where do I go to do that

I started with the model in unity

[calm spade]

Blender, in the material tab

[heady smelt]

But when I bring it into blender the whole model gets messed up D:

[calm spade]

messed up how ?

[heady smelt]

Soooo I bought the avatar custom made and when I bring it to blender to try to make it have less materials it gets like a dress or something and the face gets messed up

Idk if it’s my fault or if the person who made it didn’t do it right

[calm spade]

if it was a unity package then yeah it will more difficult to optimize

[heady smelt]

I don’t know really

Like I said I have no experience or anything with this stuff

[calm spade]

i wouldn't worry about too much tbh, it's unlikely that you'd be able to optimize below very poor given how low performance it is by default

[heady smelt]

So is it going to run poorly for other people

Also I think I found the problem? The hair has 52 different material elements I guess

So like they are all seperate materials

Even though they are hair lol

or do you think it’s not a big deal and I can play fine

[heady smelt]

are you able to contact the person who made this

[untold lance]

ここって日本語でも大丈夫ですかね？翻訳したほうが良いですか？

Should I translate it? (Not at good my english)```

[heady smelt]

yes

[calm spade]

that's definitely terrible

[heady smelt]

How do I fix it though 💀

[calm spade]

can you show what it looks like ?

[heady smelt]

this is the avatar

which is correct

and it looks like that in unity

buuuuut

this is blender

the character has a dress and stuff for some reason

and weird textures over the eyes

idk if its my fault or what

and when i bring it back to unity it has the black dress

@calm spade

also i did finally get the avatar into vrchat

but the knees bend into eachother kinda

and again i have no experience or anything and i messaged the person who made it for me

[calm spade]

You should probably ask the person who you got it from to help you out, cause that's an absolute mess lmao

way too much work for a beginning to get into right off the bat

[heady smelt]

i asked them

hope they dont make me pay more lol

[buoyant holly]

how the heck do you mess up the normals that bad

[heady smelt]

sry

[buoyant holly]

I don't mean like you personally I meant like the person who made the model

especially since that appears to be just a VRoid Studio model

[calm spade]

yeah they put actual effort into making it terrible

[heady smelt]

damn

i thought it was really good but little did i know apparently

[calm spade]

It doesn't look bad at all, it's just awfully optimized

[heady smelt]

I asked them for help with it

Definitely the first and last time I get a custom avatar I guess

[buoyant holly]

you could try asking them for the VRoid file

as that would be better anyway to have the source file

as that makes it easier to swap clothing

[heady smelt]

All I have is a VRM file

[twilit mauve]

I’ve been looking for the crisscross sitting animation

[blazing kraken]

This should help you out with all your issues! Sorry the person who created the avatar didn't give ya all the info https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbwl9XIONuQ&t=1357s&ab_channel=PHIA

[heady smelt]

Oh gorsh

Thanks

[blazing kraken]

👍

[open kestrel]

is there any easy way to convert a pc avatar to a quest compatible one

[calm spade]

Feilen made the bake addon for Blender

[buoyant holly]

https://github.com/e63uozicmujivxmyshivi9ao/cats-blender-plugin/wiki/Bake

[thin silo]

can anyone help with materials being weird after CATS fixes the model?

i import my model and then match each material to its image texture and things look the way they should:

but after clicking "Fix Model" some parts are grey :/

[nova knoll]

is there a way i can optimize this tail to be merged to the avatar

how do i go about optimizing these bones together to be merged , is there like a video tutorial for this

[calm spade]

You should just need to keep the tail bones ?

What is the large bone above the tail supposed to be ?

[paper plume]

Probably some sort of leader for the physics bones

[paper plume]

Probably like make it just 2 bones and change it so the 2 bones will effect it so it is a smooth transition for it to bend smoothly

Geez now I wish I could make vrchat avatars. I tried taking a model of my favorite character and slapping it into unity but I couldn’t figure it out

Same thing with maps

[calm spade]

I don't think the tail bones need to be changed

[paper plume]

Oh ok

[paper plume]

I want that as an actual avatar that way

Looks funny

[heady smelt]

Yeah it is kinda funny 💀

he do be compressed

[languid wave]

use Fix Model before applying textures

[low stirrup]

wassup

[solemn radish]

Is it better to keep an avatar's head separate from it's body?

[proper grail]

It helps to keep the amount of verts being moved by blendshapes low, so depending on the model yes

worded a lil funny, even if the vert doesnt move it is still taking up resources in regards to blendshapes

[heady smelt]

I need some serious optimization

[fluid anvil]

Uh how does the avatar look like?

[muted plume]

🗿

[elder terrace]

It probably doesn't have that many, the VRC SDK is extremely glitchy and sometimes shows an insane number

A model of that size would be in the gigabytes easily

[buoyant holly]

Read/Write Enable needs to be enabled on your import settings of the model

[open kestrel]

Does anyone know how to optimize one of the ghostly avatars?

[open kestrel]

this is the eorror i keep getting

does anyone knoow what it means?

[proper grail]

Is the error for "We said no, there is an error". In the console tab click clear and see what stays. If its empty press the play arrow and the top of the screen and itll light up blue and just click it again to exit play mode to get the real error

[open kestrel]

It's not clearing

[proper grail]

and its still the only error?

[open kestrel]

There were a few

[proper grail]

46 phew, double check you dont have an assets folder inside your assets folder

[open kestrel]

i do

[proper grail]

thats breakin everything cuz you have duplicate scrips

like a assets/vrcsdk folder AND a assets/assets/vrcsdk will make assembly with name errors

[acoustic latch]

yep, that is exactly what that error is, you have a copy of a project inside of your asset folder

[open kestrel]

this is alot of work for what should be simple smh

it cleared finnaly

[open kestrel]

when i press play after it cleared it said no cameras rendering

[proper grail]

eh, just have the camera disabled. no big deal

[open kestrel]

it still wont show the upload menu

[proper grail]

hmm as long as there is no more errors it should work. Mightve broken something with a duplicate so maybe delete the vrcsdk folder and reimport the latest

[open kestrel]

i did

theese are the errors in the sdk thingy