#avatar-optimization | VRChat | Page 56

woven fable Oct 7, 2020, 8:15 AM

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If I would want a for example toggle a weapon. Would it be more efficient to have separate mesh that toggle the mesh rendering or have it as a bone scale 0 to 1

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It mean I have to patch it into the model. So it would be good to know when I will be making it

calm spade Oct 7, 2020, 8:17 AM

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I have no clue if bone scaling can be done through an animation for meshes like that, but if so then that would be the most optimized option

woven fable Oct 7, 2020, 8:18 AM

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It can.i tried that and it pack it all as one mesh with one texture

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At least in 3.0

calm spade Oct 7, 2020, 8:19 AM

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sweet, i don't think i know anyone who does it that way though

woven fable Oct 7, 2020, 8:20 AM

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Then I will mash everything into one FBX with shape keys. Lastly. If I swap a material in animation. Will it over ride it? Making vrc load other material in place of new one?

calm spade Oct 7, 2020, 8:20 AM

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as in undo the bone scaling ? If you use 3.0 no

woven fable Oct 7, 2020, 8:21 AM

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And I'm trying to push. vrc features of 3.0 as far as I can. So I suppose it's rare...

calm spade Oct 7, 2020, 8:22 AM

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You can always ask the folks in #avatar-general

woven fable Oct 7, 2020, 8:23 AM

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Thanks for help. The sdk 3.0 I will ask later since I'm in blender. but I got the most important part. Thanks and have a good day.

jovial grail Oct 7, 2020, 1:47 PM

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You can replace materials with animations but there's a bug if you have replace more than 3-4 materials I believe

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Which sets the material in slot 2 to slot 4, haven't found a fix for it

patent mauve Oct 9, 2020, 6:25 AM

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@jovial grail I heard that, but I don't know how to force the bug or how you can get the bug on purpose. I did a few animation with mats swap, but never had issues or any bugs

jovial grail Oct 9, 2020, 6:33 AM

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replace 4 materials in 1 animation on 1 object

patent mauve Oct 9, 2020, 6:36 AM

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did that with more than 4 @jovial grail

jovial grail Oct 9, 2020, 6:50 AM

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huh, weird then

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i couldn't avoid it at all, no matter what I tried

tawny folio Oct 10, 2020, 3:32 AM

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That's me looking straight, How do I make it so that I see through the models eyes

📎 unknown.png

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I have the model on unity

wet hornet Oct 10, 2020, 4:21 AM

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@tawny folio If you haven't been helped yet you need to adjust the avatar's view ball to be right between the eyes of the model. It's on the avatar descriptor component when you select the whole avatar.

lusty orbit Oct 10, 2020, 4:58 AM

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Good evening! I recently had a model made for me to import into VRchat however, i try to "Build and Publish" but it gives me this error.. Ive been trying to do this for about 7 hours uninstalling and reinstalling unity etc. If anyone knows what to do or could help me please let me know.

📎 VR_chat_errors.png

heady smelt Oct 10, 2020, 5:17 AM

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help i dunno what to do

📎 sdssd.jpg

lusty orbit Oct 10, 2020, 5:18 AM

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Whoops, my bad give me one second

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Or am I in the wrong chat

sick timber Oct 10, 2020, 5:19 AM

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Probably

heady smelt Oct 10, 2020, 5:19 AM

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ok i got it nvm

lusty orbit Oct 10, 2020, 5:26 AM

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Hold on, I may have figured it out.

hexed oar Oct 10, 2020, 10:40 AM

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Just curious, is their way to make one of your avatars have both icons, pc and quest? I’m planing on getting a quest and was curious if it actually mattered, if someone could dm me a Video, or explain what I need to do so the work I put into the model won’t just be a waist, it would be most appreciated

jovial grail Oct 10, 2020, 10:40 AM

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@tawny folio move the viewpoint to your eyes

daring summit Oct 10, 2020, 12:53 PM

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@hexed oar In Unity Ctrl Shift B opens the target build and you can switch your project to Android. You need to upload your Quest version under the same blueprint ID as your PC version. I wouldn't recommend switching for a large Unity project though as it will take forever to convert and sometimes people run into errors. I personally have a project for PC and a project for Quest. Much faster to just open one or the other instead of converting lol.

vernal sequoia Oct 11, 2020, 2:17 AM

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How do you safely decrease the poly count of an avatar?

calm spade Oct 11, 2020, 2:19 AM

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dissolve edge loops

heady smelt Oct 11, 2020, 10:39 AM

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I can't find the view control panel part of vrchatSDK

strong atlas Oct 11, 2020, 2:42 PM

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Hello! I am "finished" with my first self-stitched-together model in Blender and now only have to reduce poly count for exporting but the CATS tool gets an error when i try to run decimation... can someone help me find out whats causing the problem? Can post a picture of error text here

jovial grail Oct 11, 2020, 3:17 PM

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are you on blender 2.9?

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if so update to the development version from within cats

strong atlas Oct 11, 2020, 3:27 PM

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Yes i am on 2.9 and updating to the development version fixed it, thank you very much!

faint dragon Oct 12, 2020, 6:50 AM

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Hey all 👋
So when I import my model from Blender to Unity, some parts of the mesh are invisible
I know a little about normals and such, and I know I have to have them double sided or something, and I've ticked the Back Culling option in Blender (exporting as an .FBX)
I feel like it's a super easy fix and I'm just dumb or something, so apologies if that's the case lmao

📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

lethal ledge Oct 12, 2020, 7:10 AM

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@faint dragon You need to turn off backface culling in Unity, tho' you need a shader with that option

faint dragon Oct 12, 2020, 7:12 AM

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will Cubed's shaders work?

heady smelt Oct 12, 2020, 7:13 AM

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no

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it's outdated

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for years now

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and should not be used anymore

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poiyomi is the most used shader currently for toon avatars

faint dragon Oct 12, 2020, 7:14 AM

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oo-

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alrighty thanks fellas
much appreciated 🙏

frigid wind Oct 12, 2020, 7:45 AM

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poiyomi.com

dense wedge Oct 12, 2020, 12:36 PM

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um...is it possible to somehow combine materials in unity?

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vrchat is showing me that I use 17 material slots but I actually use 9 at least that's what blender shows.

heady smelt Oct 12, 2020, 12:45 PM

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gotta combine in blender

dense wedge Oct 12, 2020, 12:46 PM

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ok, thanks.

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yahoo. performance went from very poor to medium just by doing that.

heady smelt Oct 12, 2020, 5:28 PM

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How can I reduce the polygon count?

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Also it's telling me I need to change the model shaders, how can I fix that?

river citrus Oct 13, 2020, 12:57 AM

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does anyone know how to quickly upload a model to vrchat

calm spade Oct 13, 2020, 1:21 AM

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By quickly looking up any tutorial on youtube

edgy cape Oct 14, 2020, 5:33 AM

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Any public shaders with backface culling options?

calm spade Oct 14, 2020, 5:56 AM

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the vast majority of them

edgy cape Oct 14, 2020, 6:08 AM

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OK

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none of them shipped with unity, right?

calm spade Oct 14, 2020, 6:09 AM

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i don't think so no

edgy cape Oct 14, 2020, 7:03 AM

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OK, just wanted to make sure, thx.

dense wedge Oct 14, 2020, 7:52 PM

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I'm not entirely sure where to ask, but I'll try my luck. is there anyone who knows how to get blendshapes I created in blender to a VRM model using univrm?

amber hemlock Oct 14, 2020, 10:19 PM

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none of them shipped with unity, right?
@edgy cape removing culling is a one line, two word addition to pretty much any shader.

edgy cape Oct 14, 2020, 10:19 PM

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OK

amber hemlock Oct 14, 2020, 10:19 PM

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Cull Off

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Add to first line below the subshader block

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📎 image0.png

woven fable Oct 15, 2020, 12:22 PM

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Question about VRC and performance.

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i am trying to mash togheter multiple meshes that i will cycle through in blender

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all that is to make it efficient and use one material

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but if i would in unity have multiple meshes that i only cycle through (Never loaded more than 2 at them time) would that make it still efficent or less efficent

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consider that the mashed togheter model has all polygons always loaded

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and the cycling one has only those needed (Around 10k base skin body 5 k clothes)

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that mean the model on the run has 15k top

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but multiple meshes

jovial grail Oct 15, 2020, 12:27 PM

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stuff that's off doesn't really need any performance

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but it will still count towards your performance rank

woven fable Oct 15, 2020, 12:28 PM

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that means if i turn off the skin mesh rendered it will act like it was the only one in gpu behaviour?

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ignoring other materials and other heavy impact objets?

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by heavy impact i imply something like a shader on a material that is innefficinet too much

jovial grail Oct 15, 2020, 12:31 PM

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if it's not rendered, it's basically not there

woven fable Oct 15, 2020, 12:32 PM

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are you sure about that.... VRC team said it is most efficient to have only one mesh,.....

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if that is the case my wok got much light

jovial grail Oct 15, 2020, 12:41 PM

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supposedly it's also more efficient to split your head mesh from your body mesh due to visemes having less vertices to go through

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but the performance raking system will make you think otherwise

woven fable Oct 15, 2020, 12:52 PM

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i know

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i did that in my earlier version and i tried to follow the avatar optimization guidelines

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but it semm they are not too well equiped to handle my case and the active performance load

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they seem to take in "the worst case scenario"

jovial grail Oct 15, 2020, 12:53 PM

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If you want to really make sure, you can use the unity profiler and see which performs better

woven fable Oct 15, 2020, 12:54 PM

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Unity profiler?

jovial grail Oct 15, 2020, 12:58 PM

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Look into it, it'll let you test performance of your scene

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and give you stats on everything

dense wedge Oct 16, 2020, 9:16 PM

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in blender I have shape keys limited to the head vertex group but unity uses the whole body. is there a way to limit it to the head instead in unity somehow?

calm spade Oct 16, 2020, 9:19 PM

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Two separate meshes

dense wedge Oct 16, 2020, 9:55 PM

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thank you you are a life saver

sand ginkgo Oct 20, 2020, 3:14 PM

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can anyone tell me what this highlight means, it's from different textures but it is setup the same: resolved: appearantly it shows if its selected in node editor, but with copy pasting it shows the pasted node is selected while its not

📎 unknown.png

gloomy rapids Oct 20, 2020, 7:32 PM

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does anyone know why i cant use the material combiner to automatically combine textures i have edited outside of blender and put on my avatar?

buoyant holly Oct 20, 2020, 7:33 PM

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because then the Avatar won't have the new UV Maps so you would still need to redo the UV layout to match the new Atlas

gloomy rapids Oct 20, 2020, 7:39 PM

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it look like this right now, what i did was replacing the old materiel with my new, in the same material slot and everything. Or are do you mean that i have to redo the uv completely

📎 unknown.png

buoyant holly Oct 20, 2020, 7:41 PM

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yes you're going to have to change the UV layout to accommodate the atlas if you want your textures to show up correctly

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I guess I should have asked are you making a texture Atlas or like combining some layers on top on Photoshop just to make sure I'm not sending you up the wrong tree

gloomy rapids Oct 20, 2020, 7:44 PM

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i have been exporting this to a png file, could that be it?

📎 unknown.png

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since there is more then one layers

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📎 unknown.png

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i have this error if that helps

buoyant holly Oct 20, 2020, 7:47 PM

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so are you trying to make a texture Atlas or just getting that file to load

gloomy rapids Oct 20, 2020, 7:48 PM

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i am trying to make a atlas here

proper grail Oct 20, 2020, 7:48 PM

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no spaces or the . in file names

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hairv2 or hair_2

gloomy rapids Oct 20, 2020, 7:49 PM

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didnt work

📎 unknown.png

proper grail Oct 20, 2020, 7:57 PM

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not sure how exactly its programmed, but for some reason its expecting the .blend to be 10 folders deep

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... when its only 9

sweet mason Oct 20, 2020, 7:59 PM

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Material combiner is use here or baking using circle

proper grail Oct 20, 2020, 8:00 PM

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might get away with putting the .png in the same folder as the .blend for it wont try and do fancy things with the file location

buoyant holly Oct 20, 2020, 8:01 PM

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https://github.com/leukbaars/EasyBake I've also found this works okay for doing baking for new UV layouts

GitHub

leukbaars/EasyBake

Texture baking UI for Blender. Contribute to leukbaars/EasyBake development by creating an account on GitHub.

gloomy rapids Oct 20, 2020, 8:04 PM

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the file ting did not work

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well thanks you guys for trying, i will keep testing and see if i can fix it

pale wren Oct 21, 2020, 4:02 PM

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is this hard to fix? do i need blender to do that?

📎 unknown.png

heady smelt Oct 21, 2020, 4:02 PM

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yes

pale wren Oct 21, 2020, 4:02 PM

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yes for both?

heady smelt Oct 21, 2020, 4:02 PM

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just the second one

pale wren Oct 21, 2020, 4:03 PM

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oo

jovial grail Oct 21, 2020, 4:06 PM

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it's one click

pale wren Oct 21, 2020, 4:07 PM

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okii ill check that later, really want to use this avatar

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thankyou

jovial grail Oct 22, 2020, 1:17 AM

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update to cats' development version in the update tab

neat loom Oct 22, 2020, 5:06 AM

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I keep getting this error whenever I try making an atlas for my avatar.

📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

calm spade Oct 22, 2020, 5:12 AM

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export the textures mentioned into any image editing software and add it back to blender

proper grail Oct 22, 2020, 5:12 AM

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Its saying that a 16k image is... large

calm spade Oct 22, 2020, 5:13 AM

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oh, yeah 16k may make your PC puke

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If you're trying to atlas too much, or textures are too large to begin with then you'll have issues @neat loom

buoyant holly Oct 22, 2020, 5:16 AM

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also wondering if you might need to downscale your textures a bit if your atlases totaling 16k

neat loom Oct 22, 2020, 5:18 AM

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o

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ok thanks Ruuubkic

neat loom Oct 22, 2020, 5:47 AM

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I tried running them through software, but it still turned up the same unfortunately.

calm spade Oct 22, 2020, 5:55 AM

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And you exported them back out ?

neat loom Oct 22, 2020, 5:56 AM

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I figured it out

calm spade Oct 22, 2020, 5:56 AM

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If you use the actual mat combiner instead of the cats one, you can set each texture in the list to custom, you should cut the size in half

neat loom Oct 22, 2020, 5:56 AM

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For some reason one of my textures was atlased and that was causing problems lol

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Sorry for the trouble and thanks for the help. ^^

calm spade Oct 22, 2020, 5:56 AM

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also pls use 4K max in Unity

twilit peak Oct 22, 2020, 8:25 PM

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hey so i downloaded a model someone made in vroid because im new to modeling and am inspecting it to try and figure out what methods people tend to use in regards to certain things, and

📎 ghhj.png

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i noticed that the faces of the body under the clothes still exist, their textures are just transparent? is that standard practice or should i be deleting all the hidden faces when i go to export my own finished model?

solid smelt Oct 22, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Delete faces that are invisible (or are unable to see due to clothing) on your final model

twilit peak Oct 22, 2020, 8:28 PM

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so whoever made this model did it improperly then?

solid smelt Oct 22, 2020, 8:28 PM

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Not technically, making things invisible is a non destructive way to hide them

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However, if you do not plan to use the vertices again, you should delete them

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Have a save before, and after you delete them, incase you change your mind later

twilit peak Oct 22, 2020, 8:29 PM

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alrighty, thanks

zealous adder Oct 22, 2020, 8:32 PM

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ISO Quest Compatible cute avatar creator :LOVE: prefabs or premades cool

odd sentinel Oct 24, 2020, 1:08 AM

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I'm having a problem with an MMD Avatar. Most of the textures are fine, except for the shoes. The shoes glitch out

sweet mason Oct 24, 2020, 1:10 AM

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Maybe ask in mmd channel

heady smelt Oct 24, 2020, 1:26 AM

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Is there a way to combine my avatar materials into unity? I am more familiar with Unity than with blender

drifting cypress Oct 24, 2020, 3:08 AM

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So I'm trying to save an atlas on a model I had commissioned, however the only material on the model is "Default OBJ" so when I try and save atlas it just says "No unique materials selected" and does nothing.

proper grail Oct 24, 2020, 3:44 AM

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... Youre trying to atlas one material?

daring summit Oct 24, 2020, 4:03 AM

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@heady smelt Gotta do it in blender

heady smelt Oct 24, 2020, 4:08 AM

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So what is the procedure to take my Unity avatar to Blender and vice versa without breaking anything?

edgy cape Oct 24, 2020, 4:33 AM

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I stumbled upon a roadblock, my client needs Quest compatibility and the only problem we have is no transparency on the VRChat shaders.

buoyant holly Oct 24, 2020, 5:00 AM

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cut it into geometry the stuff you would need the transparency Shader for

sick timber Oct 24, 2020, 5:02 AM

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I actually saved tris by doing that somehow.

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~~i saved around 6 tris but still~~

edgy cape Oct 24, 2020, 5:02 AM

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Eh... it wouldn't work that well in this avatar.

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it is the eyelashes, among other things.

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it is a cartoon character.

sick timber Oct 24, 2020, 5:03 AM

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You can still do that.

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I have a VRoid avatar, I cut-out the eyebrows for quest.

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I also cut-out other things.

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Like some of the hair.

edgy cape Oct 24, 2020, 5:04 AM

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so there is no other way? I can't believe the android platform doesn't support transparency.

sick timber Oct 24, 2020, 5:04 AM

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It does, but the performance isn't good with it.

edgy cape Oct 24, 2020, 5:15 AM

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oh well

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I was planning on trimming a lot of polygons, guess I'll just tell the client I will give him a quest version so he can switch them around.

severe acorn Oct 25, 2020, 1:38 AM

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Does anyone know how to combine materials for a VRM model?

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I'm trying to optomize my avatar for Quest, but the max number of materials it'll handle is 4 - my model is at 18.

When I export from VRoid studios, I CAN reduce the number of materials - but then I'm not able to attach the tail with some other unity plugins... since... I need the hair and material layers for that.

sick timber Oct 25, 2020, 3:48 AM

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@severe acorn The CATS blender plugin has a material atlaser.

severe acorn Oct 25, 2020, 3:51 AM

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Found it... I took that, made an atlas, and then exported it as a fbk model into unity.

Took a while, and I... don't think the shading carried over well.

📎 unknown.png

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This was the PC port I did.

📎 unknown.png

sick timber Oct 25, 2020, 3:54 AM

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Make sure you disable "Import Lights" and "import Cameras" in the model import settings.

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Also, the Quest doesn't support cut-out or transparency on VRChat.

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So you'll have to blender knife tool it.

severe acorn Oct 25, 2020, 4:04 AM

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Ahh...

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Damn, this is a lot more complicated than I thought. Thanks crunch

manic egret Oct 25, 2020, 8:17 PM

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Is there a way to allow wind zones to be enabled for avatar uploads? Was wanting to have a light breeze to affect hair or light grass.

calm spade Oct 25, 2020, 8:25 PM

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nope

rich fable Oct 25, 2020, 8:29 PM

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if an avatar comes up as unavailable, is there a way to fix the avatar myself?

solid smelt Oct 25, 2020, 10:17 PM

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If it isn't your avatar, no there's nothing you can do about it

fast jackal Oct 26, 2020, 7:29 PM

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I need help with this avatar when I use blender it selects the whole model instead one part of what I am trying to delete I want to delete the dress but I don't know how to separate the material.

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390924372782612480/770368182233464862/unknown.png

calm spade Oct 26, 2020, 9:09 PM

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Click separate by material in cats

calm spade Oct 27, 2020, 7:28 AM

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@heady smelt #avatar-help

heady smelt Oct 27, 2020, 7:37 AM

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Ah I’m blind, thank you I’ll move the post. Sorry lol

fast jackal Oct 27, 2020, 4:08 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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does anyone know how to fix the mesh to fit the amerature

amber hemlock Oct 27, 2020, 5:14 PM

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The techniques to model for 3D printing is the same strategy to avoid needing transparent textures as well. Make all the parts out of air-tight solid volumes. Avoid all non-manifold geometry. They translate to quest avatars very well.

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You can do some nice hair effects without transparency

daring summit Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

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@fast jackal Rotate the arms down in pose mode and apply as rest pose when they're lined up with the sleeves

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Or if the dress has its own armature then rotate its sleeve bones up to line up with your characters arms

edgy cape Oct 28, 2020, 12:28 AM

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I wish shotariya's material combiner didn't leave so much room when making texture atlass.

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no matter how even my texture sizes are, I want a 4096x4096 it always goes all the way to the right and leaves too many blank spaces at the bottom.

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As for quest avatars, 5K is kind of limiting in some cases.

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@fast jackal Did you get that after trying to apply as rest pose? sometimes it happens to me, I just do the "connect bones" from CATS before trying to make a new pose.

fast jackal Oct 28, 2020, 12:35 AM

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oh thx

unreal plover Oct 28, 2020, 10:47 AM

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You can always cut up the atlas in something like Photoshop and move the UVs around @edgy cape

edgy cape Oct 28, 2020, 10:48 AM

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That's what I was thinking, still annoying.

unreal plover Oct 28, 2020, 10:49 AM

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It's what I usually use. Also makes it way easier to modify textures :P

radiant zephyr Nov 1, 2020, 7:30 AM

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So do the blue lines mean anything bad optimizaion-wise?

📎 unknown.png

calm spade Nov 1, 2020, 9:00 AM

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They're sharp edges

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 1:22 PM

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how much do excess amount of bones impact optimazation

calm spade Nov 1, 2020, 1:31 PM

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Depends if you have dynamic bones

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and if they're weight painted

jovial grail Nov 1, 2020, 1:57 PM

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edges get marked sharp when joining meshes (i think) and when merging by distance

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you might want to clear sharp if it's unintentional or the smoothing can look weird

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 3:03 PM

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weight painted

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and i plan on disabling dynamic bones when the cloth is not used

plain dagger Nov 1, 2020, 9:34 PM

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It worked yesterday but now it doesnt? I'm up to date on versions but its all darkened. Yes it did say I am allowed to publish stuff.

📎 unknown.png

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I'm new to this so I may have done something wrong?

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It's all grayed out and I cant click

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Wait I found my issue nvm!

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 10:45 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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excuse me

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tell me what is going on here

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the size on disk and size in unity

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like

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what

proper grail Nov 1, 2020, 10:47 PM

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The mb in unity is the space taken in vram, uncompressed image useable by game engines

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 10:47 PM

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in Vram

buoyant holly Nov 1, 2020, 10:48 PM

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keeping the file size down is mostly a download consideration

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 10:48 PM

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not download size

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yes i know but still it thrown me off a lot

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how come a 1.2mb can be 21mb

buoyant holly Nov 1, 2020, 10:49 PM

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https://answers.unity.com/questions/267019/textures-much-bigger-in-unity-than-original-file-s.html

Textures much bigger in Unity than original file size?!?!?! - Unity...

Unity is the ultimate game development platform. Use Unity to build high-quality 3D and 2D games, deploy them across mobile, desktop, VR/AR, consoles or the Web, and connect with loyal and enthusiastic players and customers.

proper grail Nov 1, 2020, 10:49 PM

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Its quite literally image x size* image y size * image bit accuracy * number of channels

buoyant holly Nov 1, 2020, 10:50 PM

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so basically all the compression is turned off when it actually gets to vram

proper grail Nov 1, 2020, 10:50 PM

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Yup, it has to. There is nothing to decompress an image on a GPU (in most cases)

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 10:50 PM

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crunch compression seem to work wonders

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from 21mb it says it is 487kb

buoyant holly Nov 1, 2020, 10:52 PM

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https://i.gyazo.com/cb09fe9a787f15b9119309faef8616bf.png

proper grail Nov 1, 2020, 10:54 PM

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Yupyup, images are compressed to a gpu friendly format. You can see all the options with the override tab in the texture settings and compare quality vs size

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 10:55 PM

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i need a short one word. Does it harm performance

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i read and understand it doesn't

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but i want to be sure

proper grail Nov 1, 2020, 11:00 PM

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Cant really answer in one word, its a tradeoff. Quality for download size

buoyant holly Nov 1, 2020, 11:00 PM

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but it doesn't really make any difference as far as like FPS

proper grail Nov 1, 2020, 11:01 PM

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Id guess not, it has one extra step it has to do once.. and thats decompress from crunch

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 11:01 PM

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just texture quality

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that is all

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then i will use it in lowest setting

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i prefer for it to be smaller

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i will see in game how it will look

buoyant holly Nov 1, 2020, 11:02 PM

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https://twitter.com/LuciferMStarVRC/status/1295694156174696449?s=20

Lucifer MStar (@LuciferMStarVRC)

@RealMadvicius Left is with Crunch compression. Right is without.

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 11:02 PM

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if it will look too bad in action

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i see no issues

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bruh

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then it will be better

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i have it set to 100

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and textures already are tiny

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i don't need more

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then that is what i needed

proper grail Nov 1, 2020, 11:03 PM

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Yeah it works great with a few select colors. It has problems when you add in AO shading and other gradients

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 11:04 PM

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i have my png texture hue compressed

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so it seem like perfect case for me

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all stars lined up

buoyant holly Nov 1, 2020, 11:05 PM

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glad we could be of help

woven fable Nov 1, 2020, 11:05 PM

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thank you a lot

sweet mason Nov 1, 2020, 11:29 PM

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I use one 2k BC7 texture. Look good

amber hemlock Nov 2, 2020, 10:50 PM

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Crunch lets you load faster but it doesn’t improve memory. If don’t care about load times you can just not crunch and look a bit better in exchange for taking a bit longer to load but not using up any additional memory, so it’s not any more laggy.

rotund spire Nov 3, 2020, 5:40 AM

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is there a tool that can repack UVs on a model that is already textured and move/warp the textures around as well

proper grail Nov 3, 2020, 5:52 AM

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If there isnt, there is always blenders Make a second UV map, a texture target in the models materials, and bake a diffuse color!

rotund spire Nov 3, 2020, 6:02 AM

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woah, smart

proper grail Nov 3, 2020, 6:03 AM

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That general idea is how I melt down like shaders too, put them all on the same texture and make some maps. Good good 1 material 1 mesh

rotund spire Nov 3, 2020, 6:03 AM

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for now, my model has a slightly wasteful 2048x2048 atlas, I wish I could make it 1024x1024 and I know I defo can

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but this is really good to know

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I was kitbashing, and one of the parts I'm using was already atlased

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I think an even better question would be

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is there a way to crop a texture to the UV bounds?

proper grail Nov 3, 2020, 6:05 AM

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If its atlased with one of the popular tools its easier to translate/move things like that in.. i need to think of words for this.. powers of 8??

rotund spire Nov 3, 2020, 6:06 AM

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it isn't

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it looks like it was done in substaincepainter (lots of blurry stuff inbetween UV islands)

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and all neatly packed together

proper grail Nov 3, 2020, 6:07 AM

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blurry stuff is margin, prevents white seams when mipmapped from a distance!

rotund spire Nov 3, 2020, 6:07 AM

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ik

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but yeah, the atlas looks very manual

proper grail Nov 3, 2020, 6:07 AM

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Hmm yeah id guess it was done manually than with the above method

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oh lol

rotund spire Nov 3, 2020, 6:08 AM

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but yeah, ik, if it was matcombiner I could easily do this, because I did it for another part in the avatar

jovial grail Nov 3, 2020, 11:18 AM

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you gotta bake an alpha map as well as baking transparency doesn't work

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if you have any transparency in your textures

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use an emission shader and stick the alpha of your atlas into the base color to get an alpha map that you then combine with your texture in photoshop or something

amber hemlock Nov 3, 2020, 5:08 PM

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is there a tool that can repack UVs on a model that is already textured and move/warp the textures around as well
@rotund spire That’s more of a general blender thing. Make a secondary UV and pack that one, keeping the original one in it’s original format, then just bake one UV to the other using normal texture baking

proper grail Nov 3, 2020, 10:37 PM

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Ive noticed that blender will eat or compress the alpha channel of things too if they arent saved as linear alpha. One of the alpha options thats not default

rotund spire Nov 4, 2020, 1:01 AM

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I haven't used transparency since Quest was released.

proper grail Nov 4, 2020, 1:12 AM

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Same, its a pain and the non transparent methods look better imo

fast jackal Nov 4, 2020, 1:19 AM

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anyone know why its purple

📎 unknown.png

jovial grail Nov 4, 2020, 1:39 AM

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it can't find the textures

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go to file > external files > find missing files and pick the folder where the files are

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if the files are japanese names with broken symbols as names then you'll need to rename and reasign them

green arrow Nov 4, 2020, 11:32 PM

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so I finished an avatar and textured it using the texture paint tab and didn't do anything in the UV Editing tab which I think is causing some issues with exporting it into unity. When I unwrap it, all the textures aren't where they're supposed to be. Is there a quick way to fix this or do I need to redo all the textures?

proper grail Nov 4, 2020, 11:42 PM

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When I unwrap it, all the textures aren't where they're supposed to be
Why are you unwrapping after texturing? The uvs are.. points on a image where the color is applied to the mesh.

green arrow Nov 4, 2020, 11:45 PM

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I didn't know I was supposed to unwrap it first. I was asking if there's a way to fix it or do I need to unwrap it and redo the textures?

upper yacht Nov 4, 2020, 11:49 PM

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Make another UVMap, unwrap on that map and bake the textures to a new texture.

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This, if you use blender 2.8+, that is.

📎 unknown.png

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Just make sure the camera is on the original UVMap, and not the new one. But, select the new one.

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So that it looks like this. Also, remember to use emission materials to make it not be affected by lighting

📎 unknown.png

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And in the shading tab select the texture you want to bake to, and not the original texture, that way you can edit the UVs further to what you want

green arrow Nov 4, 2020, 11:53 PM

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thanks a million

cursive elm Nov 6, 2020, 5:50 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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how to fix this

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its not missing polygons

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its they are facing the opposite direction

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when i use shader with cull off its normal

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help pls

cerulean holly Nov 6, 2020, 6:01 PM

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Recalculate normals in Blender

heady smelt Nov 6, 2020, 6:39 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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uhhh what is this black thing

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in the back

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lmao

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i have no actual idea

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nevermind i turned on backface culling

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and fixed it

heady smelt Nov 7, 2020, 7:50 AM

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hi all, I'm using CATS to create an atlas, I do it often, but for whatever reason, a mesh I had to create through symmetrize (and which was separated as a separate mesh, only to be rejoined later) just flat out disappears (appears transparent) after creating an atlas. When I check the UV mapping for it, it looks correct on the atlas. Is there something I need to do, maybe with transparency, to bring back the mesh's appearance?

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I don't want it to be transparent

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my only solution has been to just leave the material for that one mesh as separate and not create an atlas for it, but that's less than ideal

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okay, it still is missing in Unity even when keeping it as a separate material

heady smelt Nov 7, 2020, 8:16 AM

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I figured it out

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had to flip normals

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now it's fine

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backface culling was applied

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just needed to flip it

tight solar Nov 7, 2020, 10:44 AM

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hey

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how do i fix this

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📎 unknown.png

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nevermind fixed it

harsh silo Nov 7, 2020, 2:19 PM

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i just imported a model that was 9 MB big. now that i removes some materials, bones and unnecessary meshes and exported it it got up to over 80 Mb. Is that something that can affect performance?

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i tried reducing the polygon count a bit but it didnt affect the size that much.

upper yacht Nov 7, 2020, 4:00 PM

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It's because of shapekeys. You probably attached a vertex from the face to the body. Causing each shapekey to contain the transform data for EACH single vertex on the mesh (in the FBX format). When uploading this information is then translated to only store valid vertex data (the moving vertices), and will only upload that. So, it won't affect the uploaded variant in terms of file size. @harsh silo

Do mind, that even though it only stores valid vertex data it still has to translate all vertices on the corresponding mesh to properly translate.

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At least that's what I've noticed.

harsh silo Nov 7, 2020, 4:05 PM

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Any way to downsize it?

upper yacht Nov 7, 2020, 5:04 PM

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Just separate the head from the body, if you don't like having multiple skinned meshes... fuse them together afterward, it'll have a seam for shadows due to conflicting normal data, unless you turn off auto smooth, and even then it might, so you might need to bake a normal map. But, that's the way.

sick timber Nov 7, 2020, 7:21 PM

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Or you could change the Unity import settings to "Import" instead of "calculate" on shapekey normals

woven fable Nov 7, 2020, 8:55 PM

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i am searching for a good and light shaders

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i tried using poiuomi toon

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but seem like it is still too heavy

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i try to test it but

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one material

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from them

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uses 6 draw calls

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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i need a cell shade plus glitter

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any shaders like this

calm spade Nov 7, 2020, 9:14 PM

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turn off directional light too

woven fable Nov 7, 2020, 9:23 PM

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enviorment light from sky box too?

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gpu usage "Other"

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it is the highest part...

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how should i treat it

jovial grail Nov 7, 2020, 9:31 PM

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can just ask poiyomi directly

zenith plaza Nov 7, 2020, 9:32 PM

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Other will most likely be editor stuff itself

jovial grail Nov 7, 2020, 9:33 PM

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could be worth turning off your mesh and turn it on while the profiler is already running and compare the difference

woven fable Nov 7, 2020, 9:34 PM

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i did

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and i am a dummy

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📎 unknown.png

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advance vs simple

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simple is... 1 draw call doing only mesh

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advance does allow more functions

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but uses more gpu

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that was why

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but still the other part remain

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even without the mesh

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although the fps jumps up and down oddly

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from 200fps down to 100

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nvm

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it is due to editor loop taking that time

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so i suppose it should do much better job in compiled state

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gpu reports 2.2ms in render time

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i guess that is good

woven fable Nov 7, 2020, 9:59 PM

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so a tip for people

woven fable Nov 7, 2020, 11:28 PM

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a question...

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i peaked in rendering que and it report over 200k verts even though my model has less

woven fable Nov 8, 2020, 12:09 AM

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i think i gotta go back into blender

upper yacht Nov 8, 2020, 2:03 AM

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@sick timber I'm pretty sure they meant physical filesize on the drive, and not the upload size. But, I could be wrong.

sick timber Nov 8, 2020, 2:36 AM

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Good point

hollow heath Nov 8, 2020, 5:21 AM

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is there any way to get a translucent material on a quest compatible avatar?

jovial grail Nov 8, 2020, 5:22 AM

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nope

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transparency is expensive

woven fable Nov 8, 2020, 10:26 AM

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Should I worry if my polygon are not connected together

calm spade Nov 8, 2020, 10:54 AM

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Yes

woven fable Nov 8, 2020, 11:26 AM

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Then I apparently have tons of them....

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I don't know how it torn apart in few spots.

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But whatever. Time to fix it

woven fable Nov 8, 2020, 3:09 PM

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a rather strange question

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how does unity handle texture alignment

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example

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i could have a large texture and with animation making it swap to change the look of the object

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how would that impact performance

calm spade Nov 8, 2020, 7:05 PM

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It wouldn't be noticeable

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Just be mindful of texture size and weight

woven fable Nov 8, 2020, 10:51 PM

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a actuall question

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how does light affect draw calls

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also main part

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what should i read to evaluate performance

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actuall performance to vrc matter

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like it is obvious i should not read GPU usage because it changes gpu to gpu

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should i check the verts and draw calls in the rendering?

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or maybe other metric report's to me that better

proper grail Nov 8, 2020, 11:05 PM

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Its pretty much in unitys game tab, in the top right theres a stats button that displays Batches (draw calls) and Tris. Have only a cube and a camera in the scene and play around with unity lighting settings until you get down to 2 batches, than hide the cube and show your model. Now for quest avatars limited to 1 mesh 1 material, this will only go up to 3 and 3 is entirely possible on pc avatars. And do note that the final number is something like Batches * (1+Shadows on?+Number of reflections+Number of realtime lights+ a bunch of things i cant quite recall) and it can get out of hand rather quickly

upper yacht Nov 8, 2020, 11:06 PM

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Batches and set passes

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Batches are priority, then set passes.

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(mostly because set passes usually go down with batches)

woven fable Nov 8, 2020, 11:13 PM

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i think i did much better job no matter how good it is

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the old model pulled the fps to 100

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the new one is 125

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so i guess no matter how good it is

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it is better than what i had before

proper grail Nov 8, 2020, 11:16 PM

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Were talking 125, just you empty in the scene? Sometimes vsync if its on locks a max fps so just split the game and scene window and angrily spin around in the scene window while reading stats

woven fable Nov 8, 2020, 11:16 PM

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no no..

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in vrc

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default home

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in mirror

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vsync off

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i think that is good

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draw the model 125 times a sec is good i think...

solid smelt Nov 8, 2020, 11:41 PM

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I mean if any single avatar has a tangible effect on fps when alone that's a red flag imo

woven fable Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM

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you mean compared to old one.. or the new one

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maybe a good test would be just.

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copy it 30 times

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and see how unity run with it

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30 - how a full world with that avatar would run

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or just go as far till i hit 90

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32 avatars... and still all 170 fps in editor

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cpu is slowly higher bottle neck

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at 64 avatars i reached 90 fps

proper grail Nov 9, 2020, 9:50 AM

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Make them play a dance animation so they count as a skinned mesh

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I mean, more accurately measure this

woven fable Nov 9, 2020, 9:51 AM

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bruh that will look funny at this amount

proper grail Nov 9, 2020, 9:51 AM

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Theyre overlapped, should only "see" one lol

woven fable Nov 9, 2020, 9:52 AM

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no. i spread them apart as a array

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imagine in a grid 8 by 8

proper grail Nov 9, 2020, 9:52 AM

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Ohh thats gonna look neat

woven fable Nov 9, 2020, 9:52 AM

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i try to force it to spread so the poly would not be covered but actually shown

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i gotta record this...

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i found a animation and it will look just...

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wacky

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64 models in 90 fps in editor.

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📎 output.mp4

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here

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enjoy this...

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oof

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my dragon maid when i wastching came through

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and when i turned it off it jumped back up to 120fps

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Oof power went out

woven fable Nov 9, 2020, 11:03 AM

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Then I guess this model is very good in performance wise?

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i think i will push as far as i can to see how much do i have to add to get 30fps

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bruh

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256 models 40fps

📎 output.mp4

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if that doesn't make someone sure the model perform well i don't know what does

jovial grail Nov 9, 2020, 11:34 AM

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i think they get instanced

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So it's not the same as if they were all different avatars

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try duplicating your fbx and materials a few times and drag those into the scene

woven fable Nov 9, 2020, 1:06 PM

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Huh

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Seems like even more work.... Damm

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I will test to see this but geez

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I don't think so...

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In unit documentation there is a setting that would allow instancing

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But only if enabled

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I never turned it on

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So gpu instancing is off

zenith plaza Nov 9, 2020, 8:06 PM

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GPU Instancing doesn't work with avatars to begin with since it doesn't support skinned meshes

heady smelt Nov 9, 2020, 8:08 PM

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wha?

zenith plaza Nov 9, 2020, 8:09 PM

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GPU Instancing doesn't support skinned meshes which avatars are mostly made of

proper grail Nov 9, 2020, 8:44 PM

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Yup yup, gpu instance checkbox is for static meshes that you have like 8 of, in the same view, material on the exact same mesh, under 7000 tris each. Like a ball pit!

amber hemlock Nov 9, 2020, 8:55 PM

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I was told GPU instancing works with avatars as long as they have all blendshapes set to zero

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Was that incorrect?

zenith plaza Nov 9, 2020, 8:56 PM

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📎 unknown.png

proper grail Nov 9, 2020, 9:12 PM

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The viseme system is blendshape based anyways, silly. Whats the point

calm spade Nov 9, 2020, 9:13 PM

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Well, also bone based with 3.0, but that's also skinned meshes

jovial grail Nov 10, 2020, 12:21 AM

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I think games mostly use blendshapes for faces

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So it's not really uncommon

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 7:11 PM

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what about dynamic bones.

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for example does toggling them on or off changes performance or keep them loaded

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i have japanese type fan with 5 bones.

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i wished to be abel to wave them but not have them always loaded

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it does unload.. right?

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just making sure

amber hemlock Nov 10, 2020, 7:25 PM

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When the script is off, or the game object the script is on is off, the dynamic bone code does not run. In both cases the lag is temporarily removed

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 7:53 PM

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"in both cases the lag is temporarily removed"

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i am not sure how to understand that

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the lag when it is removed.

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the lag when it is on

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and temporarily?

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plase if you could redefine that it would be nice

solid smelt Nov 10, 2020, 7:56 PM

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Active dynamic bones require CPU calculations to run, disabling them reduces that CPU load since they no longer need to calculate. However there is still a non zero cost of them existing, even when disabled.

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 7:58 PM

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i get this much. but it is much better than let it run even if it is not needed.

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as i understand that

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i suppose that is better result

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Hold on

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what if i use the same bone scrypt for other part

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example hair

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then if i understood the first part

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if the objeact that the scrypt affects

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it will reduce the load.

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:07 PM

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what is some things you can do to reduce tris that i might be missing? im currently trying to reduce my body tri count heavily and im running out of headroom for everything else on the model (clothes, hair, etc)

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my current plan was to just merge everything that has little visual impact (like extra edge loops around the legs, etc) but im quickly running out of things to reduce, without resorting to hurting some essential parts of the model like the hands or the head

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the goal is 10k (quest min limit) and im sitting around ~11-12k

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:19 PM

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quest is extremly thin case

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i bearly fit in defualt VRC so you have to sometimes sacrifice tiny details

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try to search for something that is not really visible and see if you can reduce poly on it

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worst case

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you will have to delet that

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you could also try to remove the edge loops on stragh parts of the models

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:21 PM

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yeah its getting very close now, its really a game of hide and seek like you said

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idk if there's a better tool in blender, but i've been turning on wireframe and looking at the triangle density and that helps a lot

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:22 PM

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like keep the joins having round loops but the long part where there is no bends you could toss out all the polys keeping a cylinder like shape

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and not exactly. you gotta work manually

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there are usefull things like remove doubles

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that might improve the actuall performance

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(by actuall i mean performance on the hardware)

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because poly standard does underline the performance but does not describe it well

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you can have a shity model within VRC standards

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and other way around as well

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being marked as poor but have well performing model even if

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:24 PM

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yeah, the only thing thats keeping me from verypoor is really the triangle count atm

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:25 PM

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same

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:25 PM

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i still have complaints about the count of skinned renderers but i havent joined all my meshes together yet and created an atlas

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but im almost there!

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:25 PM

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important thing so you would not trip at the end

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you could conver the textures on the model from RGB png to indexed PNG

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:25 PM

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its definitely a super low limit though, i didnt realize 10k is extremely tight

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:25 PM

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for me it reduced my model from 120mb to 30mb

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i mean overall

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:26 PM

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im not sure if i heard of a indexed png before

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:26 PM

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https://www.drububu.com/tutorial/image-types.html

www.drububu.com

Pixel Art Tutorial

All you need to know about pixel art

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:26 PM

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ah okay i looked it up, thats perfect actually since i only have flat colors

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:27 PM

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exactly

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with that you could save a lot of space

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like 70% reduction

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and in unity when you swap to crunch texture on 100 it will reduce it even more with little quality drop

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:28 PM

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ooh, thats nice

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:28 PM

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but the size drops drastically

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other tip.

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:28 PM

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does the vrchat sdk warn you about filesize? i don't think ive seen a statistic on mine anywhere yet

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:28 PM

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do backups

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it actually does

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there is a upper limit of 200mb now

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:29 PM

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oh dont worry i learned that long ago 😄 i backup everything automatically now

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:29 PM

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few people tune it to 100 or 50

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so if you mess your textures up your model will pass VRC standard...

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but not show up for people because of the file size

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it is mostly due to fear of crashers and spam

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(music and heavy models are big in file sizes)

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:30 PM

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oh yeah, i forgot theres a user option

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i just kept mine at default

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:31 PM

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good luck!

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i hope this helps

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:31 PM

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oh it really did, thank you 😄

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:33 PM

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also if it is 3.0

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if you have animations in mind

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try to get a paper and note down all the values that should hold each of the change as well as plan out how it will function

torpid lagoon Nov 10, 2020, 11:36 PM

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oh its 3.0 but i havent even thought about animations yet, but whys that?

woven fable Nov 10, 2020, 11:36 PM

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I found my self getting lost in animatio and values.

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If that should be float or int. What should be reset index or how should it function in the menu

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Menu layout as well

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It is on unity state but worth to be kept in mind

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For me because I have 9 tails... I get a lot of flexibility to what to do with them

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As well as toggling.

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Then we have other animaitions and so on.. it can get out of control if not keept in order

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Also a tiny hint. (You can use 2 values to select stuff that you want)

woven fable Nov 11, 2020, 9:48 AM

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Also a odd thing. I don't know if to report it as a bug or engine issue. Meshes render differently depending on what is disabled. If you disable the object it does not update lighting properly. But when you toggle the mesh or skinned mesh it works properly.

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(we take a situation that the object is disabled from the start and activated by animation)

jovial grail Nov 11, 2020, 9:50 AM

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Set renderer anchors to the same bone for all renderers

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Usually spine

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I think it's called anchor override

woven fable Nov 11, 2020, 9:59 AM

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"render anchor"... Please send where it is?

languid quartz Nov 11, 2020, 10:05 AM

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Click on your meshes, there should be a component called "Skinned Mesh Renderer" on them. Looks like this.
Basically ensure the anchor override for all of them is the same bone on your avatar ideally.

📎 anchor.png

jovial grail Nov 11, 2020, 10:13 AM

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Or set the all automatically with pumkin tools

woven fable Nov 11, 2020, 10:57 AM

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this gentle self insert

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Pumkin tool is compatible with 3.0? @jovial grail

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(also did you use halloween to call it pumpkin tools?)

jovial grail Nov 11, 2020, 11:08 AM

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Yes, and no

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I didn't do anything for halloween vrcAevSip

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I don't shill much so I do offer alternative solutions, but honestly, if you have multiple mesh renderers, just use

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https://puu.sh/GMkQd/39b1409229.png

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because it's the easiest way

woven fable Nov 11, 2020, 11:11 AM

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Alright thanks for help. I will get it going and see how it function with it

worldly bronze Nov 12, 2020, 9:03 AM

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im magic i tell ya'

📎 unknown.png

sturdy socket Nov 12, 2020, 2:06 PM

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1 skinned mesh, no good

woven fable Nov 14, 2020, 10:14 PM

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how does refresh rate on dyn bone affect the game

still perch Nov 15, 2020, 12:34 AM

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The more transforms per second it has to calculate, the more performance impact from those calculations.

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Usually 30 is more then fine for dynamic bones, some things even less.

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I belive it's hard capped at 60 (gladly.)

amber hemlock Nov 15, 2020, 9:49 PM

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Disable distance is also capped, I don't know to what

charred peak Nov 16, 2020, 10:03 AM

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What's the generally 'accepted' number of materials for an avatar? I'm new to making them and I'm trying to maintain 1 material slot but I find it a bit restrictive, and I notice a lot of avatars in game have more than 10!

jovial grail Nov 16, 2020, 10:03 AM

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Look at the performance ranking values

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https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#avatar-performance-ranks---value-maximums-per-rank

VRChat

Avatar Performance Ranking System

The Avatar Performance Ranking System allows you to see how much a user's avatar is affecting performance via analysis of the components on that user's avatar. You can also use it on yourself to see how performant your avatar is. This system is provided to inform users what is...

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4 is fine for excellent

charred peak Nov 16, 2020, 10:05 AM

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Thank you, I'd heard mixed things about the values assigned to the ranking system so I wasn't sure

jovial grail Nov 16, 2020, 10:11 AM

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It's true in some cases

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But for materials I think it's fine

amber hemlock Nov 16, 2020, 3:31 PM

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What's the generally 'accepted' number of materials for an avatar? I'm new to making them and I'm trying to maintain 1 material slot but I find it a bit restrictive, and I notice a lot of avatars in game have more than 10!
@charred peak ideally 1. No real legitimate reason to be higher than 4.

solid smelt Nov 16, 2020, 3:43 PM

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The legitimate reason is multiple shaders. Keep in mind that any particle system also counts as two materials inherently

charred peak Nov 16, 2020, 3:46 PM

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Part of the reason I'm asking is that I'm looking at adding accessories to my avatar which aren't attached to the body, so I think they'll need their own materials?

solid smelt Nov 16, 2020, 4:03 PM

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You can always do it in blender which will allow you to merge the meshes and atlas the textures

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A mesh doesnt need to be actually connected to be considered one mesh

undone harness Nov 16, 2020, 4:34 PM

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Does anyone know which would be the biggest performance hit?:

Avatar with multiple meshes and a single material
Avatar with a single mesh and multiple materials

buoyant holly Nov 16, 2020, 4:35 PM

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ideally you would want a single mesh with a single material

undone harness Nov 16, 2020, 4:36 PM

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I have an avatar where you can hide parts of it, and I wanna do that while have the lowest performance hit.

solid smelt Nov 16, 2020, 4:51 PM

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There is no such thing as an avatar with multiple meshes and a single material, even if meshes share the same material, it counts as separate since they are different meshes.

jovial grail Nov 16, 2020, 4:54 PM

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The thing that counts is material slots

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Materials don't matter that much as even empty material slots will count towards performance rank afaik

undone harness Nov 16, 2020, 5:08 PM

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So a single mesh with multiple materials is the way to go.

amber hemlock Nov 16, 2020, 5:26 PM

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Does anyone know which would be the biggest performance hit?:

Avatar with multiple meshes and a single material

Avatar with a single mesh and multiple materials
@undone harness single mesh multiple materials. Skinned mesh renders are very expensive.

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However it is the same draw calls either way. The same material on two different objects is still two draw calls

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So the only benefit to one over the other is reducing the amount of meshes. They have the same amount of materials total

hollow briar Nov 16, 2020, 5:38 PM

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Is there any way to view your avatar with saftey settings enabled? I was informed I look like a freak of nature

proper grail Nov 19, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Theres a method i know of, log in with steam client and oculus client desktop and put the windows side by side

twilit peak Nov 20, 2020, 8:42 AM

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uh, not sure what channel i should be putting this in since there isn't a unity specific one, but does anyone know why there's like a second set of each mesh shown in unity? (don't worry this is pre-optimization, the 4 will be merged before i put it ingame) https://i.imgur.com/sAdhACU.png

Imgur

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a second set that's untextured and flipped on its side

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oh wait that's there even for the vrchat tutorial avatar example, guess it's just a thing unity does nevermind

worldly bronze Nov 20, 2020, 9:45 AM

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I'm going to start a revolution if I have to goddammit

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 9:46 AM

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png size does not matter, 2 or 64Mb. When texture imported into Unity it automatically compressed into DXT1 (without alpha channel) or DXT5 (with alpha channel) format. What really matters is texture resolution and presence of alpha channel.

worldly bronze Nov 20, 2020, 9:47 AM

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worldly bronze im magic i tell ya'

look, epic gamer optimization. I will make others learn through means of kindness and violence /joke

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If you don't believe, this is the kind of avatars I used to make like a year ago

📎 image0.png

calm spade Nov 20, 2020, 9:48 AM

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@rocky tartan Crunch compression is still necessary

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 9:48 AM

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More talking about source file format

calm spade Nov 20, 2020, 9:49 AM

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Does alpha channel really add that much ?

languid quartz Nov 20, 2020, 9:50 AM

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I've seen just alpha channel double the size of textures before tbh.

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 9:50 AM

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It specifically does double the size

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Dxt1 is 4bpp, dxt5 is 8bpp

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So if there's alpha, it's twice as big

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 9:52 AM

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DXT1 vs DXT5

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

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2.7Mb and 5.3Mb for 2k texture

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 9:53 AM

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Crunch compression helps download size, but once decompressed into GPU memory it's the same size

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 9:53 AM

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^ this

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 9:54 AM

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So... yes it's good, but I'd switch it on/off and look in the view port to see if it's worth it

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It can range from unnoticeable to pretty bad

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 9:55 AM

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Big textures takes time to stream from RAM to GPU memory since vrchat using texture streaming. In some cases it can cause freezes when turning head to group of people with lot of huge textures on their avatars.

#

Probably best idea is to have two atlases - one for transparent/cutout parts compressed with DXT5 and another for opaque DXT1. This way size will be minimized. And transparent atlas should be as small as possible.

#

But if everything fits into single 2k texture not a big deal really.

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 9:58 AM

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Eh, I think one big texture is gonna be the better option overall

#

Less materials is better. More efficient packing will save you a lot of sad

potent pulsar Nov 20, 2020, 9:59 AM

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Not with transparency, it will look better on paper sure

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 9:59 AM

#

Speaking of which, I guess I should bring this up in here too, since it works for desktop

#

https://github.com/GiveMeAllYourCats/cats-blender-plugin/pull/221

GitHub

Introduce 'bake' panel, a non-destructive way to produce an optimiz...

This is more or less a port of all the best parts of my avatar creation script I've been working on for some months.
Features:

Instantly duplicate and decimate any model, without affecting...

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Not quite merged yet, but... better than material indexing cause it packs all UVs into the same texture space, not even counting the decimation with normal baking

#

https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1109288/97836846-03d49b00-1c92-11eb-9e9f-b30ad8eccaf7.png

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34k tris, 1 (extremely complicated, blender note based) material at 2048x2048, several meshes -> 5k tris, 1 material @ 1024x1024, one mesh

potent pulsar Nov 20, 2020, 10:02 AM

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That looks amazing

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 10:02 AM

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Two button presses, one to detect passes and the other to start the bake

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 10:03 AM

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One thing to mention, opaque and transparent parts will require different materials anyways only if you not planning to use cutout/transparent for entire model.

potent pulsar Nov 20, 2020, 10:03 AM

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Might use it for easy quest avatar because I can't be bothered otherwise lol

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 10:03 AM

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Thaaat's the idea yeah xD Death to robots!

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 10:03 AM

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Plugin looks cool, can't wait to try

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 10:04 AM

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But uh, it can also bake desktop versions that are pretty difficult to tell from the original, without touching your original setup

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So you can keep your 50 meshes and 45 materials on your working copy, and just click the button when you need the optimized version ready

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@rocky tartan if you wanna test it early you can just download it from my development branch, it'll be merged soon ish though

rocky tartan Nov 20, 2020, 10:06 AM

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I'll give it a try!

unreal plover Nov 20, 2020, 6:37 PM

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So are people interested in a tool to automatically generate rotation constraints for multiple objects to a string of bones for better physics performance?

📎 cpTYTr1Wnr.mp4

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This is a total of 10 dynamic bone transformations 😄

📎 k3aP8q77jS.mp4

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It's not 100% similar as having dynamic bone transformation on all bones, but it should be pretty close. In turn you get way better performance because constraints can be resolved in multiple threads (instead of only on the main thread of Dynamic Bones).

normal nova Nov 20, 2020, 6:58 PM

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@unreal plover that looks awesome! I was trying earlier to hack something together that did similar with just weight painting, but it was even further from the desired result

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Zigzag tail :P

unreal plover Nov 20, 2020, 7:12 PM

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Thanks, I'll need to record some tutorials and clean up the code a bit, still. But afterwards it should be good to make it public 🥳

eternal vessel Nov 21, 2020, 2:54 AM

#

whats the best worlds to find optimized avatars? since the last update my fps has decreased by alot.

calm spade Nov 21, 2020, 3:29 AM

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Really depends what kind of avatar you're looking for

agile radish Nov 21, 2020, 2:13 PM

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@unreal plover thats very nice - i think many ppl would be interested

stoic sonnet Nov 21, 2020, 3:27 PM

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Does anyone have a recommendation of what to buy in the unity offers?

agile radish Nov 21, 2020, 5:36 PM

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very animation is pretty nice / dynamic bones / bakery (if you want make maps) / umotion / some nice particle fx for spring balls and spawn in animations - there are so many to choose from

unreal plover Nov 21, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

@normal nova https://github.com/Naraenda/NarasUnityTools 😄

GitHub

Naraenda/NarasUnityTools

Contribute to Naraenda/NarasUnityTools development by creating an account on GitHub.

normal nova Nov 21, 2020, 10:21 PM

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Very neat! I'll give it a shot later

normal nova Nov 21, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

Nooot sure I got this right

📎 unknown.png

#

From original:

📎 unknown.png

#

Oh! I think I got it

#

unchecked 'modify source constraint'

unreal plover Nov 21, 2020, 10:53 PM

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👍

normal nova Nov 21, 2020, 10:58 PM

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Would be good if it automatically set up exclusions in the dynamic bone script

normal nova Nov 21, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

but yeah works :3

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15 bones -> 11 bones :3

hoary juniper Nov 22, 2020, 1:48 AM

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Ooh, that's a neat tool

#

I wonder if it would make sense to have a tool to rotation constrain dynamic bones to other bones for fake gravity. It works really well for hair but I don't know if it would work for a skirt

unreal plover Nov 22, 2020, 2:03 AM

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Yea i could make a tool for fake constrain gravity for quest avatars. Just need to reduce the poly count on my main avatar by 30% first 😄

normal nova Nov 22, 2020, 2:19 AM

#

@unreal plover should try my thing! https://github.com/GiveMeAllYourCats/cats-blender-plugin/pull/221

GitHub

Introduce 'bake' panel, a non-destructive way to produce an optimiz...

This is more or less a port of all the best parts of my avatar creation script I've been working on for some months.
Features:

Instantly duplicate and decimate any model, without affecting...

worldly bronze Nov 22, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

beware poor performancei am here

📎 unknown.png

heady smelt Nov 22, 2020, 6:15 AM

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Alguien me ayuda no me deja publicarlo :”(

📎 image0.jpg

jovial grail Nov 22, 2020, 7:54 AM

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click auto fix

worldly bronze Nov 22, 2020, 9:05 AM

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They have 54 materials.

daring summit Nov 22, 2020, 11:53 AM

#

vrpill

formal flare Nov 22, 2020, 5:34 PM

#

has anyone had issues with material combiner?

#

it seems like it just ignores some textures and doesnt atlas them

radiant shadow Nov 22, 2020, 5:42 PM

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If it cant find the path for the texture it does that, find wich one it is add the texture back on it then try atlas again.

formal flare Nov 22, 2020, 5:49 PM

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oh thanks, im not sure if it was that or it just doesnt like tgas

unreal plover Nov 23, 2020, 12:44 PM

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I usually just skip material combiner and just put everything in photoshop together instead, then move the UVs manually

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Because a lot of assets come with a lot of blank space in the textures

amber hemlock Nov 23, 2020, 8:09 PM

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formal flare oh thanks, im not sure if it was that or it just doesnt like tgas

There is a convert all to png button

devout gyro Nov 24, 2020, 2:22 AM

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first day on blender, just trying to get the triangle counts to show up first and every tutorial just have them showing on the bottom, selected all, what am i missing?

📎 unknown.png

calm spade Nov 24, 2020, 2:26 AM

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Try with blender 2.83

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2.9.1 isn't stable

proper grail Nov 24, 2020, 2:35 AM

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devout gyro first day on blender, just trying to get the triangle counts to show up first an...

These buttons, theyre off by default in 2.9+

📎 unknown.png

devout gyro Nov 24, 2020, 2:37 AM

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ahhhh, i just went with @calm spade advice and downgraded and its showing, thank you both

#

now the only problem is 80,000 triangles haha

📎 unknown.png

devout gyro Nov 24, 2020, 3:55 AM

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Got it down to 20k triangles, guess rigging and shape keys next. Does decreasing bones help performance? this model came with a ton of bones in the face and i dont see a lot of tutorials that have bones looking like this

📎 unknown.png

upper yacht Nov 24, 2020, 4:32 AM

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It has a facerig

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You can remove it or not, depends on how you want to do the visemes.

#

Helps with making visemes tho

solid smelt Nov 24, 2020, 4:47 AM

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Yeah VRC can't use face rig so you should use it to make visemes and delete it after

upper yacht Nov 24, 2020, 4:53 AM

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3.0 can use it 🤔

solid smelt Nov 24, 2020, 4:57 AM

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Honestly true but fuck that lmao

heady smelt Nov 24, 2020, 1:55 PM

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Lol

unreal plover Nov 24, 2020, 7:45 PM

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@hoary juniper Turns out constraints for fake gravity are pretty easy. Cancel out the head rotation and then copy the y-rotation over. Don't really to need my tool for that since it's pretty easy to add constraints to multiple objects as long as they aren't nested (but I still wrote how to do it here: https://github.com/Naraenda/NarasUnityTools/blob/main/dbc_tutorial.md#extra-fake-gravity-for-quest.

📎 fake_gravity_example.mp4

heady smelt Nov 24, 2020, 8:37 PM

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hey can someone make a hoppa vrchat avatar?

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📎 1200px-720Hoopa.png

normal nova Nov 24, 2020, 11:19 PM

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unreal plover <@!61098843223109632> Turns out constraints for fake gravity are pretty easy. Ca...

Super neat!

sick timber Nov 25, 2020, 7:23 AM

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unreal plover <@!61098843223109632> Turns out constraints for fake gravity are pretty easy. Ca...

That's a really good alternative to dynamic bones if you can't afford them or like optimisation! Thanks for the tip!

coarse marten Nov 25, 2020, 8:05 AM

#

So, i'm trying to use the Atlas Generator in CATS to combine all my materials but it's making an atlas out of exclusively my diffuse maps and not my normal maps

#

is there any way to make it use my normal maps as well?

#

or would I have to do it manually

calm spade Nov 25, 2020, 8:16 AM

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Only supported in blender 2.79

#

they want to add it back eventually

#

@coarse marten

coarse marten Nov 25, 2020, 8:16 AM

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agh

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alright

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thank you

normal nova Nov 25, 2020, 9:38 AM

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@coarse marten the new bake panel also does normal maps

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(it's in cats devel version)

ember venture Nov 26, 2020, 3:39 AM

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Hiya! Im not quite sure where to put this question, but seeing as it is about optimization, i thought i'd leave it here

I have a custom avatar iv been modeling and texturing from scratch for VRc, and iv modeled it so it only has 12,268 tri's, well bellow the recommended 70,000 cap. however i modeled it for smooth mode, which just smoothens out the mesh withought adding any new geometry.

im wondering if there's an option like this built into VrChat which would let me keep it smooth and at a low tri count, or if i'll have to add geometry to keep it smooth (hopefully this makes sense, Im still very new to game engines)

📎 MEQslU2gYL.gif

calm spade Nov 26, 2020, 3:47 AM

#

Subdivision is more geometry but not shown when rendered afaik

#

Baking high to low might help achieve this for normals at least

ember venture Nov 26, 2020, 3:48 AM

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Alrtighty, thanks so much!!

jovial grail Nov 26, 2020, 10:41 AM

#

Some shaders also have distance based tesselation

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 8:23 AM

#

guys, i need some help:
when i load the avatar it shows 6 materials even though there are only 3

#

is there any way to fix this?

jovial grail Nov 28, 2020, 10:33 AM

#

do you have empty material slots

upper yacht Nov 28, 2020, 10:38 AM

#

Do you have "keep quads" enabled

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 12:20 PM

#

jovial grail do you have empty material slots

no

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 12:20 PM

#

jovial grail do you have empty material slots

i'm put materials into material slots in import settings

velvet flower Nov 28, 2020, 12:23 PM

#

particles or other meshes? vrcThinking

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 12:26 PM

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no, there's no particles

#

it's looks like vrchat count materials+slots

velvet flower Nov 28, 2020, 12:27 PM

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huh, i don't know, no other props either?
Perhaps you somehow accidently changed size value under materials or something i'm not sure exactly

#

but it doesn't make sense that it would count other materials if they are not even attached to the avatar itself

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 12:29 PM

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i have this problem in all of my avatars actually, all of it has x2 materials count

velvet flower Nov 28, 2020, 12:30 PM

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that's weird, don't think i've ever seen that type of behavior honestly

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 12:32 PM

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oh well, it's not that big problem after all, just annoying vrcPerfVeryPoor sign

velvet flower Nov 28, 2020, 12:32 PM

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huh, wait a second, how many meshes do you have?

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 12:33 PM

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3 meshes with one material

#

one .fbx

velvet flower Nov 28, 2020, 12:33 PM

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huh yeah still weird, no idea really

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 12:34 PM

#

yea, me too ;D

upper yacht Nov 28, 2020, 12:45 PM

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So you probably have "keep quads" enabled

#

If you have "keep quads" enabled all submesh instances (materials) are doubled.

quaint berry Nov 28, 2020, 1:03 PM

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upper yacht So you probably have "keep quads" enabled

it's off, but thanks for advice anyway

📎 unknown.png

cyan mist Nov 29, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

does anyone know a way to lower the poly count in unity????

#

I'm poor and don't have money so i would appreciate the help

heady smelt Nov 29, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

@cyan mist blender is free

cyan mist Nov 29, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

I tryed but blender wont let me import FBX

#

@heady smelt

heady smelt Nov 29, 2020, 6:50 AM

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@cyan mist you could try making it an obj file

cyan mist Nov 29, 2020, 6:51 AM

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heady smelt <@!707529425939595285> you could try making it an obj file

oh good idea ill try that

robust relic Nov 29, 2020, 6:51 AM

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cyan mist I tryed but blender wont let me import FBX

You need to enable fbx import. Go to Preferences -> Add-ons -> Type 'fbx' in the search bar, then make sure Import-Export: FBX Format is selected

cyan mist Nov 29, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

📎 6d23866af20e0a39d02dc9a8501a806e.png

#

damn

robust relic Nov 29, 2020, 6:55 AM

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Oh ascii format

#

You could try find a converter online

cyan mist Nov 29, 2020, 6:55 AM

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could you please that would be great

robust relic Nov 29, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

Search something like "ascii fbx to binary"

cyan mist Nov 29, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

then what???

robust relic Nov 29, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

idk, you'll need to research that yourself. i'v never done it with rigged models

cyan mist Nov 29, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

robust relic idk, you'll need to research that yourself. i'v never done it with rigged models

Thanks you It worked

upper yacht Nov 29, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

yes

#

And to answer your question. It's a combination of laziness, lack of knowledge on how to make it quest-compatible, and (for a minority of people) pure hatred for quest users.

buoyant holly Nov 29, 2020, 8:00 PM

#

https://twitter.com/feilen/status/1332437394260312065?s=20

♡ Feilen (@feilen)

Mentioned before but, my 'instantly produce an optimized Quest avatar' changes for the CATS blender plugin now are in the dev version if you wanna try them out! May have some issues w/ blender 2.9x, still testing

normal nova Nov 29, 2020, 8:56 PM

#

@oblique mesa when you upload an avatar, it updates whatever platform it's currently targeting, windows or Android

quartz harness Nov 30, 2020, 2:07 AM

#

ember venture Hiya! Im not quite sure where to put this question, but seeing as it *is* about ...

nice

junior brook Nov 30, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

Hello, I have two versions of the same avatar (2.0) one with more materials and the other with less, but instead of deleting the materials parts to upload I just hide them in case I want to use them later, but even hidden they still show in my avatar stats, why's that and does it even impact performance?

#

Like, it shows me having 20 materials even tho in reality most are hidden, only 10 are active

upper yacht Nov 30, 2020, 2:30 PM

#

The avatar stats don't care if you hide stuff. And depending on how you hide it, you might just be still using it. Setting a transparent material on an object still renders that object. Turning an object off doesn't do this. Avatar stats basically take the worst case scenario "what if everything is active?".

#

(Even though it has more of a nuance than that)

junior brook Nov 30, 2020, 2:46 PM

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It's weird, I'm literally just disabling every non used material mesh but it still shows on my avatar stats as if it was there

amber hemlock Nov 30, 2020, 3:36 PM

#

The intent is that the rating represents how unoptimized the avatar could possibly be at any given time. Avatars shouldn’t change ratings depending on their current animation, since that animation could be playing all the time.

junior brook Nov 30, 2020, 4:11 PM

#

But it’s literally not there, I disabled (not deleted) on unity the pieces(like wings for example) I’m using , why should it counts?

amber hemlock Nov 30, 2020, 4:12 PM

#

Because an animation could re-enable them.

#

If no animation is enabling them, delete them.

junior brook Nov 30, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

But it’s stuff that was carefully place, using wings as an example, I placed a version with it and a normal without, I don’t want to delete cuz I may change it later (like the color, shader etc)

amber hemlock Nov 30, 2020, 4:13 PM

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Then make a duplicate of it in your scene so that you have a version where you didn’t delete it

junior brook Nov 30, 2020, 4:14 PM

#

Hmm, I supposed I could do that, ty for the advice

#

Altho it lowers my avatar rating, it doesn’t make it less optimized because I’m literally not using/showing the material but ok

amber hemlock Nov 30, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

As I said it’s because you could be re-enabling them with animations and it’s not going to check all of your animations to see if you are or not

junior brook Nov 30, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

It just bothers me because I got called out the other day for having 20 mats, even tho I was using only 10

#

I understand, ty for the help!

amber hemlock Nov 30, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

If you know C# the uploader also has a hook to execute any code you want in play mode right before upload, if you want to run a script to delete stuff that would not be permanent when the upload is done and play mode exits

junior brook Nov 30, 2020, 4:16 PM

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Oh no idk that stuff >.<

teal mica Dec 1, 2020, 12:25 PM

#

Or just trick the SDK by creating an “optimized” version of your avatar ; then spamming undo while in the SDK upload panel (until your back to your original version). The SDK doesn’t do a second sweep to check your avatar stats before uploading.

#

This is frowned upon though.

amber hemlock Dec 1, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

His goal was to upload an avatar that has a better rating. Doing that does not give your avatar a better rating.

#

Tricking the uploader won’t change your rating in game

zenith plaza Dec 1, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

Yeah the avatar rating wouldn't matter at all if all you had to do was fake it in the sdk

fading leaf Dec 1, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

Yeah, tricking the SDK is not necessarily optimizing your avatar..

manic trail Dec 2, 2020, 1:16 AM

#

how much time do you need to wait until you can get a custom avatar ?

still perch Dec 2, 2020, 1:17 AM

#

Becoming verified by the trust system is based on reaching a not time based trust score, which's exact algorithm is unknown to prevent exploitation.

You presumably need to play the game in a normal manner with your VRChat account, walking around, meeting people and also making some friends. Idling won't help.
According to many responses in this discord, a rough estimate would be ** 20-40 hours**, but big exceptions are possible.

Make sure you are not using a steam or oculus account and continue playing the game until you get a notification or e-mail.

http://help.vrchat.com/kb/article/27-why-cant-i-upload-avatars-or-worlds-yet

manic trail Dec 2, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

ok ty

junior brook Dec 2, 2020, 2:01 PM

#

What is worse, an avatar with lots of materials but low MB size, or an avatar with 1~2 materials and a huge file size?

#

Also how much of an impact it is to performance to just upgrade my materials quality, increasing the file size to 1mb to 5mb for example

amber hemlock Dec 2, 2020, 2:51 PM

#

junior brook What is worse, an avatar with lots of materials but low MB size, or an avatar wi...

Lower materials is better. There is not much that isn’t worth reducing a draw call. Draw calls are basically everything.

#

Especially on PC.

#

Trade more memory for less draws any time

#

If you can do it all in one draw, it’s just better.

junior brook Dec 2, 2020, 3:13 PM

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hmm, I ask because whenever I atlas stuff the quality of the material greatly decresses, so I have to unlock the highest quality possible (trillinear, max size 8k, high quality and remove mip map) to make it look normal, that increases the avatar size by double at least

languid quartz Dec 2, 2020, 3:15 PM

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That's with CATS Atlas right?

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If you force the textures to all be the same size you may be able to get that to be better quality with lower texture resolutions or manually make an atlas

junior brook Dec 2, 2020, 3:17 PM

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How do I do that tho >.<

amber hemlock Dec 2, 2020, 3:38 PM

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junior brook hmm, I ask because whenever I atlas stuff the quality of the material greatly de...

Atlasing materials does not need to degrade texture quality. I recommend manually stitching your textures together and offsetting the UV’s by the amount of pixels. Automatic atlasing tends to bake textures with fractional pixel offsets (or worse, rescale it) which leads to texture quality reduction

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Blender can set the UV editor to whole pixel units

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There should be zero visual change to the model if atlased that way

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Aside from texture bleed just be mindful of what is right next to islands

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Also only move parts of your images in powers of two pixels at a time so mipmaps remain the same

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Someone really could make a better automatic atlas 🤔

junior brook Dec 2, 2020, 3:45 PM

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Yeah tbh I’m at beginner level of avatar making, I only know how to atlas through Cats

amber hemlock Dec 2, 2020, 3:45 PM

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Yeah cats atlas is kinda sloppy

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Cats is a wonderful tool but it also stops you from learning blender proper

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Tupper has made a good manual atlas tutorial

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Is for old blender but it’s still valid

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Just skip the part where he scales things, learning how to move UV’s around and bring the texture with you is all you need

potent pulsar Dec 2, 2020, 5:20 PM

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Never use 8k texture atlas

hazy barn Dec 3, 2020, 3:39 PM

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post this in #udon-general they can help you

nimble ingot Dec 3, 2020, 6:24 PM

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What's the best way to check your avatar's performance impact in Unity? I thought about using the Game view stats, but even when nothing is in the camera, it seems to say that there's 2 Batches for some reason. Am I going about this the right way or is there a better way to check?

calm spade Dec 3, 2020, 6:24 PM

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Did you disable the realtime light in scene ?

nimble ingot Dec 3, 2020, 6:25 PM

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I turned off all realtime light sources, if that's what you're asking.

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This is what my stats look like with literally everything in the heirarchy turned off

📎 unknown.png

calm spade Dec 3, 2020, 6:27 PM

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looks like you have V-Sync enabled

nimble ingot Dec 3, 2020, 6:27 PM

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Ah, will that do it? Thanks, I'll see how to disable it. So, Unity stats are a good performance metric then?

calm spade Dec 3, 2020, 6:33 PM

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Sure, that's one way to get stats

nimble ingot Dec 3, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Out of curiosity, Do dynamic bones not show their impact in the unity stat viewer? The framerate and CPU time seems identical whether they're enabled or not.

jovial grail Dec 3, 2020, 8:08 PM

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but are you moving

nimble ingot Dec 3, 2020, 8:08 PM

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And, I'm not turning off a small amount of them either, 8 components, each containing 4 bones and 4 colliders.

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Hm, not through root motion, but I was playing an animation so it'd wiggle while staying in place.

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I see, I had to shake it a fuckton to actually get a performance difference between the two options.

Alright, new question.

My avatar I'm working on is a nine-tailed fox. As a result, they have a decent amount of bones on them.

I've heard in the past, years ago, that it's bad practice to use exclusions in dynamic bone components. However, all the tails are parented to the hips, and I could do 1 dynamic bone component with 3 exclusions, or 9 dynamic bone components with no exclusions.

Am I just misremembering that thing about exclusions being bad to use, or is it sincerely better to have the 9 instead of the 1?

jovial grail Dec 3, 2020, 8:51 PM

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You should look into this https://github.com/Naraenda/NarasUnityTools

GitHub

Naraenda/NarasUnityTools

Contribute to Naraenda/NarasUnityTools development by creating an account on GitHub.

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You can have dynamic bones for one tail then have them all copy rotations off it with rotation constraints

worldly bronze Dec 4, 2020, 1:59 AM

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i win

📎 unknown.png

zenith plaza Dec 4, 2020, 2:00 AM

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Too many polys

sick timber Dec 4, 2020, 2:00 AM

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How is the bounding box so big though?

worldly bronze Dec 4, 2020, 2:01 AM

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armature

sick timber Dec 4, 2020, 2:01 AM

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oh ok

amber hemlock Dec 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

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nimble ingot Out of curiosity, Do dynamic bones not show their impact in the unity stat viewe...

The uploader will completely ignore non-legitimate versions of dynamic bone. It only looks for the version you can buy.

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You can still upload it though and they will be replaced with VRChat’s unmodified versions

nimble ingot Dec 5, 2020, 1:51 PM

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Oh, no, I wasn't talking about the SDK builder. I have the asset store version of the dynamic bone script. I meant the Unity stat in the game window when you're in play mode.

uncut apex Dec 6, 2020, 7:12 AM

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so i bought this avatar and i really love it, however it only works for PC. I want to make it so people with quest can see it too. I realized the poly limit for quest is 10k, and this model is 20k. Idk how to lower the poly count while keeping it rigged in unity. is it possible or can anyone help lol

calm spade Dec 6, 2020, 7:24 AM

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@uncut apex https://twitter.com/feilen/status/1332437394260312065

♡ Feilen (@feilen)

Mentioned before but, my 'instantly produce an optimized Quest avatar' changes for the CATS blender plugin now are in the dev version if you wanna try them out! May have some issues w/ blender 2.9x, still testing

uncut apex Dec 6, 2020, 7:28 AM

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If I import the optimized model back into unity will I have to rig it? I’m not sure how to rig and do things like that.

buoyant holly Dec 6, 2020, 8:02 AM

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that tool will automatically spit out a copy of the model that's been Quest optimize including the rig

uncut apex Dec 6, 2020, 8:10 AM

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Dope! I’ll have to try it out in the morning. Thanks

tribal ruin Dec 6, 2020, 3:48 PM

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Anybody know exactly what causes framerate drop when loading an avatar? Like is it the textures, meshes, or something else? Trying to reduce load lag on my avatar, but not sure what to look at.

tribal ruin Dec 6, 2020, 3:56 PM

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jovial grail You can have dynamic bones for one tail then have them all copy rotations off it...

This is what I do with my hair. Since it's short it makes sense, and looks fine. Really saves on Dynamic Bones

uncut apex Dec 6, 2020, 7:59 PM

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when i use the cats plugin and export it back into unity, theres still no rigs/ animations. is there something else i need to do?

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ah nvm i think i had to export it as a fbx, but i still need the descriptor which has all of the mouth movements

broken relic Dec 6, 2020, 8:11 PM

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calm spade <@!486322558933925898> https://twitter.com/feilen/status/1332437394260312065

hey i try to figure out what is this CATS plugin for really :?

why not jsut import blend to unity and work from there

uncut apex Dec 6, 2020, 8:15 PM

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hmm when i try to decimate it says The model already has less tris than given. but when i import it back into unity it still says it has too many polys. is there a tutorial specifically for decimation bc i cant seem to figure it out lol

broken relic Dec 6, 2020, 8:16 PM

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The model already has less tris than given
than set up amount of triss less than it already has

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set it to 5k

uncut apex Dec 6, 2020, 8:17 PM

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okay! ill try that

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ah it works! it says poor quality, so i'll reduce it till i get good or medium

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idk if i can get it any better than poor... if its poor quality will it still show up or will it be auto-blocked like avatars that are very poor.

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i feel annoying but, when i try to upload it says "this avatar uses visemes but the face mesh is not specified" ? how do i fix that

rustic bough Dec 6, 2020, 9:02 PM

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calm spade <@!486322558933925898> https://twitter.com/feilen/status/1332437394260312065

The tweet says that it may have some issues with 2.9x, should I download a different version? The dev version button does not work.

rustic bough Dec 6, 2020, 9:13 PM

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uncut apex i feel annoying but, when i try to upload it says "this avatar uses visemes but ...

Drag body into face mesh and that should fix it

📎 Screen_Shot_2020-12-06_at_4.12.04_PM.png

calm spade Dec 6, 2020, 9:56 PM

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@broken relic Unity is not a creating/modifying asset software

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@rustic bough You might have to yes

normal nova Dec 7, 2020, 5:09 AM

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rustic bough The tweet says that it may have some issues with 2.9x, should I download a diffe...

hotox fixed it, it should work now?

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@uncut apex if it's poor quality, it'll be blocked by default. Were you using the 'bake' panel?

uncut apex Dec 7, 2020, 10:51 PM

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i dont think i used the bake panel. But i think i managed to get it to excellent quality. Now im just not sure if i uploaded it correctly so that quest users can see my avatar lol

uncut apex Dec 8, 2020, 1:09 AM

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i think i am doing something wrong, i want to make my avatar both pc and quest compatible. when i go into my avatar menu it says that it supports both, but when i ask quest players it says they see my avatar is an error. why is this? the quest version is excellent quality, while the pc version is medium

normal nova Dec 8, 2020, 1:45 AM

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Odd, have any screenshots?

uncut apex Dec 8, 2020, 3:03 AM

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here are some screenshots. ignore the names ive been doing this for a while and i was getting frustrated

📎 Screenshot_1.png

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📎 Screenshot_5.png

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📎 Screenshot_4.png

leaden hamlet Dec 8, 2020, 3:19 AM

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wrong unity for 1

uncut apex Dec 8, 2020, 3:25 AM

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whats the most recent unity? i thought i downloaded this one from the website

normal nova Dec 8, 2020, 3:26 AM

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Not most recent, you want the specific version that vrchat uses

normal nova Dec 8, 2020, 3:26 AM

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uncut apex whats the most recent unity? i thought i downloaded this one from the website

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/current-unity-version

VRChat

Currently Supported Unity Version

This page lists the current Unity version you should use when creating content for VRChat, as well as links to the correct version for both Unity Hub and direct downloads. Current Unity Version The current Unity version in use by VRChat is Unity 2018.4.20f1. Unity Hub To install the currently suppo...

uncut apex Dec 8, 2020, 3:32 AM

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i cant add the 20f1 version to the hub to make it android compatible, only the 30

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nvm i got it

warm oxide Dec 8, 2020, 4:01 PM

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Hey, I'm thinking about commissioning a large avatar. There are some problems though which I've thought of and I'm wondering if you guys know any good answers. First is having a big avatar indicative of lag and strain on lower end PC's? And is there any way to make it easier to hear people and others to hear me since my viewmodel will be so high? And finally a question to more experienced players, Is VRC mostly played in indoor spaces/worlds?

languid quartz Dec 8, 2020, 4:24 PM

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warm oxide Hey, I'm thinking about commissioning a large avatar. There are some problems th...

A bit yes. Because your bounding box will likely be larger, meaning your avatar is more likely to be rendered in more situations as opposed to an avatar with a smaller one (frustum culling).
Not that I know of other than adjusting volumes of voices and your mic volume.
I've been playing since 2017 for reference and not too sure how to answer that, I'd say indoor if I had to say but I wouldn't doubt getting mixed answers on this one.

warm oxide Dec 8, 2020, 4:27 PM

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Thanks for the response. In regards to the first question is there any way to reduce the strain? And do most people make it so they can't see large avatars through settings?

languid quartz Dec 8, 2020, 4:31 PM

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warm oxide Thanks for the response. In regards to the first question is there any way to re...

Other than making the bounding box smaller not really, but if you did that people may see the avatar suddenly go invisible even when in their vision.
As for the second one, if the avatar get's marked as very poor in performance ranking as a result of it's large bounding box you may experience some who block very poor avatars and won't see it.

solid smelt Dec 8, 2020, 4:32 PM

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Larger bounding box is more of a multiplier for bad performance, if your avatar runs well, then the large bounding box isn't that bad. If the avatar runs poorly in other regards, the large bounding box makes it harder to hide the avatar when people are not looking directly at you.

warm oxide Dec 8, 2020, 4:33 PM

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I see I see, thank you both

solid smelt Dec 8, 2020, 4:33 PM

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You will be marked very poor if the avatar is larger than 5mx6mx5m

languid quartz Dec 8, 2020, 4:33 PM

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That is true. If the avatar is well optimized in other aspects then the bounding box isn't as much of a problem.

warm oxide Dec 8, 2020, 4:37 PM

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Im still on the fence about the exact commission so Ill take all this into consideration

amber hemlock Dec 8, 2020, 5:36 PM

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warm oxide Hey, I'm thinking about commissioning a large avatar. There are some problems th...

1.) size doesn’t really effect lag. Though if you are bigger you will be in frame more often which means you will need to be rendered more often.

2.) no. If your view position is way up in the air, your voice will be too, and you will not hear others and they will not hear you.

3.) most worlds I visit have ceilings yes

lone tiger Dec 9, 2020, 5:06 AM

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To correct one statement in here. If the only reason that your avatar is marked as very poor because of bounds, then it will never be hidden when players set their minimum perf rating to poor or medium.

heavy kindle Dec 9, 2020, 5:39 AM

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Hello, so I'm working on a project. What is like the best settings to use for importing avatars? These are my current settings and I'm just wondering if they should be changed.

📎 Screenshot_2020-12-09_003723.png

sweet mason Dec 9, 2020, 6:58 AM

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Fine. If you scale you model scale it there instead

uncut apex Dec 9, 2020, 10:40 PM

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i still dont think quest ppl can see my avatar. im doing something wrong but i just dont know what it is

woven fable Dec 9, 2020, 11:16 PM

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is there any use of LOD in vrc for models?

calm spade Dec 9, 2020, 11:35 PM

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no

woven fable Dec 10, 2020, 1:34 AM

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At all?

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Is lod useful in any point in vrc?

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But can I use lod to enable / disable rendering?

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I want users to see my stuff like weapons but only close up

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It's useless detail afar

sick timber Dec 10, 2020, 3:22 AM

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woven fable But can I use lod to enable / disable rendering?

no. Occlusion culling is available for world creators, which disables rendering if it is blocked but as Ruuubick(the vrchat dev) said LOD isn't available on avatars

trim palm Dec 10, 2020, 3:46 AM

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Does anyone know how to make an avatar quest compatible? I heard that it should be below 10 mb... so if I lower the size of the avatar does it make it "quest compatible" automatically?

torpid lagoon Dec 10, 2020, 3:47 AM

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it's quest compatible if you upload a quest version of the avatar under the same id

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theres several different soft and hard requirements for quest avatars listed under the docs

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file size is one, and triangle count is another big concern

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unfortunately because of unity, the process is not automatic and vrchat recommends a two project approach, one unity project for the pc version and one for the quest version (switching platforms under the same project is possible but time consuming, and is harder to make optimizations for each platform)

trim palm Dec 10, 2020, 3:49 AM

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So, how do I make a quest version of the avatar?

torpid lagoon Dec 10, 2020, 3:51 AM

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there's a button under the builder tab on the vrchat sdk window, called "switch platform to android" or something like that

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and then, you can build & test your avatar like usual

trim palm Dec 10, 2020, 3:52 AM

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Oh alright, thank you.

buoyant holly Dec 10, 2020, 4:58 AM

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https://twitter.com/feilen/status/1332437394260312065?s=20

♡ Feilen (@feilen)

Mentioned before but, my 'instantly produce an optimized Quest avatar' changes for the CATS blender plugin now are in the dev version if you wanna try them out! May have some issues w/ blender 2.9x, still testing

#

https://github.com/feilen/cats-blender-plugin/wiki/Bake

GitHub

feilen/cats-blender-plugin

:smiley_cat: A tool designed to shorten steps needed to import and optimize models into VRChat. Compatible models are: MMD, XNALara, Mixamo, DAZ/Poser, Blender Rigify, Sims 2, Motion Builder, 3DS M...

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this blender tool can help if the model has too many triangles and materials for the quest

junior brook Dec 10, 2020, 8:09 PM

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idk why my sdk says I have 12 materials when I'm only using 8, I searched everywhere and these 4 materials are nowhere to be found

calm spade Dec 10, 2020, 8:12 PM

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particles ?

junior brook Dec 10, 2020, 8:12 PM

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nope

calm spade Dec 10, 2020, 8:13 PM

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A single mesh ?

junior brook Dec 10, 2020, 8:14 PM

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eh, not sure, I'm just checking all the material slots, and there's only 8 in total >.<

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wait! I found it

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For some reason I have 4 elements for the same material??

📎 Sem_titulo.png

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6 actually

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I tried atlasing on cats the face before, it doesnt seem to work with my model since it makes the eyetracking stop working and sometimes the lipsync gets off

calm spade Dec 10, 2020, 8:20 PM

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RuuuThunk

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That shouldn't have any effect

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But you can at least merge the same materials

junior brook Dec 10, 2020, 8:21 PM

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It actually uses the same material for 4 different thing, iris, eyelid, mouth and eyebrows, if I merge any of them it gets broke, maybe not the eyebrows

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Also a another question, does it impact optimization in this case? Like it uses only 1 material but for 5 meshes

calm spade Dec 10, 2020, 8:23 PM

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it's maybe not setup correctly in the first place then, materials don't work that way with eyetracking

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It does impact optimization yes

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it's not the worst

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but having unnecessary materials is never a good thing

junior brook Dec 10, 2020, 8:24 PM

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hmm, its different from the usual model, if I try to set eyetracking on cats it completely breaks and cease functioning

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well, I'll just try to atlasing everything else, but gonna always have to deal with 4 extra materials vrcSad

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Ty for the answers!

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It's a neptunia model, those were always very light but the visemes were done completely diferent than the average mmd

normal nova Dec 10, 2020, 9:16 PM

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@junior brook it's not 12 materials, it's 12 material slots (with some overlap)

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You can combine the material slots in e.g. Blender

junior brook Dec 10, 2020, 10:22 PM

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normal nova You can combine the material slots in e.g. Blender

Last time I tried the mouth out of nowhere becomes super big and the lipsync is desyncronised

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 1:08 AM

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Hm, is this possible to like

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Optimize a pc avatar for quest with unity?

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I bought a skin, it was for quest but its not woking for it, only for pc

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📎 Screen_Shot_2020-12-11_at_02.08.47.png

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So i'm a little bit upset :(

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 1:27 AM

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what model is it?

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also, it should still work, people will just have to turn your avatar on, or have low safety

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@urban fable

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 1:59 AM

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@loud frost uh

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What do you mean by model?

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Wait it can still work, hm

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:05 AM

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urban fable Wait it can still work, hm

I mean, link the model you bought

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:06 AM

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Oh sure

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This one : https://booth.pm/en/items/2309378

サイバーコート - 二晩星堂 - BOOTH

※この商品はVRoid向けテクスチャ素材とVRM・FBXモデルです。男性キャラ向けのサイバー衣装です。燕尾服をイメージして作りました。 2020/08/25　更新改変向けのVRMモデルを追加しました。もちろんそのままアバターとしてもお使いいただけます。 2020/11/07 追加更新　・改変向けスキニング済みFBXを追加　（透過テクスチャ使用　Quest非対応）「改変向けVRMモデル」内容物 VRMファイル・avatar.vrm emission用テクスチャ・jacket_e.png ・tai_e.png ・shoes_e.png 「改変向けFBX」内容物

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(I used a link with specified research for quest and it was inside)

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:12 AM

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ah, I see the issue. It states that a certain transparent component is not compatible with quest. That's why it came up.

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it comes with an FBX, you can import it to blender and use CATS to optimize it further

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otherwise, 30k is usable. Just not highly recommended

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:13 AM

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Ohhhhhhh, f* D:

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:13 AM

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I've had no problems using my own avatar on Quest 2 with a lot of polys

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:13 AM

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loud frost it comes with an FBX, you can import it to blender and use CATS to optimize it f...

Uh, do you have a video or something which can help me? xD
I'm a total newbie on this

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Oh

#

uh

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So, when I export it, I export it as Pc avatar, not quest, right?

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:14 AM

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what do you mean export it

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:14 AM

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From unity

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:14 AM

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do you mean upload??

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:14 AM

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Gimme a second I'll send a screen

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OH YEAH

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upload sorry !

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:14 AM

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all good!

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:14 AM

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I have two option in unity

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For pc

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and for quest

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:14 AM

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but no, you can upload to quest

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you can also do it for PC if you want PC players to see you

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:15 AM

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hm, I already tried, ended up with an error

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:15 AM

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here, dm me and we can figure it out yeah?

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:15 AM

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I'm not taking your time ?

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I mean, if you have better things to do ><

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 2:16 AM

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having lunch rn, so I got an hour or so haha

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 2:16 AM

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Oh, great !

#

On my way

buoyant holly Dec 11, 2020, 2:35 AM

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https://github.com/feilen/cats-blender-plugin/wiki/Bake

GitHub

feilen/cats-blender-plugin

:smiley_cat: A tool designed to shorten steps needed to import and optimize models into VRChat. Compatible models are: MMD, XNALara, Mixamo, DAZ/Poser, Blender Rigify, Sims 2, Motion Builder, 3DS M...

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 3:21 AM

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buoyant holly https://github.com/feilen/cats-blender-plugin/wiki/Bake

Thanks, gonna look at that !

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And I'm comming with another question !
quest do not have transparency at all, so, uh, I have to find a solution about that but I have no idea

Eyes looks very bad :/, any idea?

📎 Screen_Shot_2020-12-11_at_04.21.42.png

buoyant holly Dec 11, 2020, 3:24 AM

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basically you take the blender knife tool to all of the transparent bits

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 3:24 AM

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Wait

#

I can use the blender to remove transparent things

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So I can have a decent character for quest, that can work?

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I mean, at least fix that

buoyant holly Dec 11, 2020, 3:29 AM

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yeah you probably want to remove the transparent bits before going through the quest Avatar making button

urban fable Dec 11, 2020, 3:40 AM

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Hm, i'm installing blender

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Hope it work with .vrm extension

loud frost Dec 11, 2020, 3:42 AM

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that model comes with an FBX