open-beta-discussion

[stoic mural]

open beta?

[warm lotus]

anyone have an idea when av dynamics becomes live compatible?

[muted brook]

no idea

just hope not this week

[warm lotus]

why not?

[timber jewel]

there are still a lot of open canny posts, so bugs that haven't been fixed and features people would like them to add

[muted brook]

^ also I dont have time to go and fix all my dbs this week

if it were to release

[muted bloom]

Sippbox fix your game

[warm lotus]

I see... thanks for the info

[tender dome]

how about i break it more

[clear torrent]

Yes

[mossy python]

So question

How do you make a phys bone that players can grab and move

But doesn’t actually jiggle

[sullen elk]

Set immobile to max

[timber jewel]

And spring down to 0

[mossy python]

I want players to be able to turn this bone 90° to spin the slots

[timber jewel]

You can also leave pull at 0 if you don't want it to go back to it's original place

[mossy python]

Definitely want it to go back to the original position once done

[stable wagon]

hmm. it seem i got error when i try upload beta on quest. maybe good 10min to find that error

[ashen radish]

This is amazing, hahah.

I love it!

[mossy python]

How exactly should I rig the lever if I want people to be able to turn it at a 90 degree angle

[sour epoch]

Rig the bone pointing straight up then use hinge

and if the hinge is not at the right angle, use the rotation Y axis to change it

[mossy python]

I ended up having to do it like this

That way there's a spherical collider at the actual point the player should grab

[sour epoch]

that sounds like it should work

you can use curves to make it so that the hinge only applies to the first bone

[mossy python]

I tried it in test mode and it works perfectly

Just need to have colliders behind it to make sure it doesn't bend backwards

[timber jewel]

you can just use Limits for that

[mossy python]

I have a hinge limit but I can't rotate it correctly

[sour epoch]

rotation x axis should do it

[timber jewel]

use a hinge limit with 90° and offset so it works correctly

[mossy python]

Ohhh I see

[timber jewel]

with the x,y,z values below the hinge limit you can offset where the limit is positioned / rotated

[mossy python]

Sweet

Thank you so much

[sour epoch]

nice, that looks great!

[mossy python]

Textures are still incomplete

By the time I'm done all of his screens will be flashy ads and he'll be covered in stickers

Contact receivers don't need to be floats anymore right?

[lapis urchin]

that is the best proto I've ever sseen

[mossy python]

Thanks lol

I had this idea on a walk yesterday and literally ran home to start working on it

[lapis urchin]

thats funny, never would have thought to do that

[inner creek]

I love the fact that in most cases where you used to use colliders you can now just set limits.

[timber jewel]

yup, that's probably one of the coolest things about Phys Bones

[mossy python]

So I'm having a contact sender issue

I have a sender on the tip of the lever

I have a receiver at the base

I have the correct transition in my FX Layer

What else could I be missing?

It's not functional in game or Unity

[sullen elk]

Don’t use offsets
Don’t use proximity on a capsule collider
Make sure the colliders have room to actually make contact
Make sure that they aren’t rotating away from each other

[mossy python]

Trust me they’re definitely colliding in game

[small surge]

You collision tag custom , only whatever has the same name on their avatar can interact

[mossy python]

I enabled debug view to view the contacts

[mossy python]

I’m trying to make my avatar interact with itself, is that not something you can do?

Essentially once the handle is fully rotated, it updates a parameter

[small surge]

only time i used contact sender if to test in unity

this can let other people poke or interact

[mossy python]

Man VRC discord really doesnt want me to call myself stupid in all caps

[small surge]

thats rest of it, that uses that parameter when someone interact

[mossy python]

I realized I forgot to actually define the tag

It’s working now lol

[lapis urchin]

thats neat

[timber jewel]

you could technically just use the angle value of the Phys Bone for that

[near grove]

Anyone have any clue when it’s gonna actually come out? If not can someone tell me some good physbone avi worlds?

[bright jungle]

no ETA has been provided - it'll be out when it's ready, likely some time after a release candidate is announced in #open-beta-announcements

[wanton ember]

I’m having an issue where all my physbones seem to be reverting back to default values upon upload, but it looks as intended in Unity. Has anyone else come across this?

[sour epoch]

if you're talking about anything to do with freeze axis, it's probably because you have an outdated SDK. The new SDK made a change to how that works and it does not support previously-uploaded physbones

[wanton ember]

That… is probably the issue.

Thank you!

[chrome parcel]

64 physbones???? that's INSANE.

I love it

[gritty moat]

How many people actually play on the open beta? im wanting to switch over a few of my avis to the open beta

i expect mostly pc players

[small surge]

wast majority i run into are quest users

[timber jewel]

yeah same

[gritty moat]

really?

thats interesting

[small surge]

pc ones tend to be privateish / testing avatars / updating, rare to see a quest one without one thats public av

[gritty moat]

if i upload a quest avatar to my account using one of the physbones sdks, will it automatically add physbones to the quest avatar or would i have to do it myself

[timber jewel]

of course you will have to manually put Phys Bones on your hair and so on

[small surge]

You need to add them wherever you want, theres nothing to convert on quest

[timber jewel]

the SDK cannot do magic xD

[small surge]

dynamic bone > phys bone is just a pc thing

[gritty moat]

figured

im adding physbones manually, let just hope i do it correctly lmao

[warm cedar]

Best way to do it is copying the component and replacing the bones

or well, you know, the root

[sullen elk]

I want more pc people to test my avatar but the world is only questies

[bright jungle]

could always make an invite link/Discord game invite here

[mossy python]

Looks like somebody rolled a jackpot!

(It was me)

((I am both of the people in this picture))

[vestal vigil]

that protogen looks like its seen some things

terrible things

[mossy python]

He's seen too much of Vegas

[inner kayak]

Made a canny. I want to the option for proximity contacts to measure inverse to how they do now.
https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/request-option-to-flip-proximity-receivers-measured-inputs

Instead of proximity being measured from the center of the receiver to the sender, I want the distance between the receiver to the center of the sender.

I tried to come up with an easy to understand example of why it would be needed:

Scenario:
Avatar 1 has an apple and Avatar 2 has a knife. The apple will explode once proximity reaches 1.
The current system will only give me distance until the knifes blade has reached the center of the apple. I instead want to know the distance until the knife has completely entered the apple.
That would allow me to use any sized knife, entered at any point on the apple.

[raw forge]

Can't you just set the sender to an empty object in the center of the knife instead of the blade tip?

[inner kayak]

That does not solve my request. In my example, I state that I want to know once a knife (of any size) had completely entered the apple.

The avatar with the knife could know when the blade had fully entered the apple if the apple has a contact sender and the knife has a proximity receiver, but I want to be able to get that distance from the apples side.

Having the ability to flip the way proximity is measured would accomplish that.

[raw forge]

Okay I get that. Maybe a reciever that only goes off when a sender's sphere is 100% in the reciever

[inner kayak]

not possible with the current system

[viscid knoll]

so how does one mak oneself able to like grab your own phys bones. i got the self interact on, and the bones converted and they seem to function fine and marked as grabbable. i just cant get my hands to interact with them. is there something i need to add to the avatar to add that functionality? or may it be something else like an animation controller affecting things?

[inner kayak]

make sure the physbone radius is above 0

[inner kayak]

This is what you can do right now. You can measure the senders distance from the center of the receiver.

This is what I want to do instead. I want proximity to be measured from the receiver to the center of the contact sender.

Treat the sphere and the knife as different avatars. The knife knows how big it is, so a proximity receiver would work on that side.
The sphere does not, so if I wanted this gimmick with the current system, the knife would have to be scaled to match the proximity receiver.

It also would mean any sized knife could be used. My animation would still require the knifes blade to fully enter before activating.

[dusky kettle]

did they do something to the grabbing? because before my pys bones were posable but now it only grabs but snaps into place

dumb question

never mind its working but super finnicky?

idk why

[wet bluff]

You have to grab them in the game view while in play made

[dusky kettle]

i was directly in vrchart

after upload

seems when updating my sdk, i had to fix some bones

because some of them didnt have the "c" thing on

idk how to explian

it works now kinda?

what does "max stretch" do?

[inner kayak]

hover over it or look at the documentation

[keen nova]

Hey guys, quick question.
I've seen a lot of people using a unity program to pull DB/AD bones around in the editor. Does anyone know what that is called?

[supple void]

when float greater than 0.99 or whatever do your animation?

[inner kayak]

again, does not solve my issue

look at the clips above, i show and explain why i would need to measure to the contact senders center

[supple void]

hmm I see.
A weird workaround would be having two contact receivers large enough to cover the whole thing ~ when they both equal near .5 you know the sender regardless of size has reached the middle point between the two?
Problem would be that it's limited to one direction of entry so AAA

Neat alright, I can very much see the use case

[mossy python]

I actually did just that before

[open kite]

Well there's one way to do this

You just attach a receiver to the sender you wanna measure

And then put the Sender on the knife

But that would require 7 proximity contacts

[inner kayak]

[open kite]

And also depending on how many contacts you want to be able to stab on another person's Avatar the logic can get... intense

You could do a janky setup and attach the receiver to the tip of the knife, when it comes in contact with an Avatars sender it gets world constrained

But obviously this would only work if the other person isn't gonna move during the stab

[dim cloak]

You're essentially just wanting the sender to be able to give the player data to use if they want it is what it seems like.

Sounds like a really solid idea and could be extremely useful to be honest.

[open kite]

But tbh the double receiver setup should work on the knife

Since direction doesn't matter in this case

[dim cloak]

You could use your sender to trigger a blood animation and such depending on how far it is into someone, without also needed a receiver on it to interact with someone else's senders.

^ Since it would know how far it is in a receiver.

[open kite]

The problem is that senders can vary in size

[dim cloak]

Right, but that's on the creator lol.

[open kite]

So there's no consistent way to tell how far from the center your receiver is

[dim cloak]

What?

[open kite]

And thats what they want to achieve

[dim cloak]

It's literally the same thing as a proximity receiver.

[open kite]

They want to be able to tell how far from the center of the Sender their receiver is

No

Because the sender size can vary a lot

You're thinking the wrong way around

[dim cloak]

No, it quite literally is just like a proximity receiver being packed into a sender.

And it isn't hard to do.

You can scale a proximity receiver and do it

It's the same premise.

[open kite]

But you would have to scale the receiver at runtime

[dim cloak]

It's not like a proximity receiver breaks because its scale changes.

No?

[open kite]

I don't think you understand 😭

[dim cloak]

I do lol

You are literally just applying "proximity-like" qualities to a sender.

[open kite]

How would you be able to tell how close a Receiver is to the center of a Sender on both a really big and really small avatar

You can't

You need 2 Receivers to do that

[dim cloak]

I don't think you understand that he's asking for receiver-like data on a sender.

[open kite]

You're thinking about measuring how close the Sender is to the center of the Proximity

Which works just fine

But the other way around is different

[dim cloak]

It's essentially the same.

That's the functionality that they are asking for.

I agree that this can be more easily accomplished with two receivers and senders, but it could be incorporated into senders so that they can give the creator data to work with from someone else's receiver as well.

[open kite]

Yeah but you can't in this instance

We're talking about the standard senders on Avatars

Those can vary in size a lot

So the only way to know how close you are to the center of those senders is with 2 proximities or a tracker

And also some other creative solutions probably

[dim cloak]

Are those senders not built at runtime?

Also missed the part of the conversation where you guys meant the built in ones instead of user defined senders.

[open kite]

Pretty much

They sort of exist in Unity but you can't interact with them

[dim cloak]

If they're built at runtime, why not just have their size stored on the avatar and use that information for people then?

Same thing if it's not built at runtime, then the data could at least be there from the build on each avatar I'd imagine.

Actually it'd have to be at runtime for a lot of avatars that won't ever be updated to a new SDK.

So that data for their size should be there.

And the avatars that are updated in unity should just have their size info on them regardless.

[open kite]

Yus but I can't see a way to actually get that data consistently without a tracker

And even that would be limited to only 2 digits

[rain niche]

With the new beta can u see people who are not in beta?

[raven laurel]

you can't, only those in open beta but ik beta works with live version

[coral garnet]

If you upload a avatar with PhysBones now will you have to upload it again when the full release comes out, or will it still work and be there?

[timber jewel]

Nobody can give you a clear answer to this, it depends on how much is going to change from now, compared to when it releases

[jaunty sentinel]

do physics bones have an option to exclude bones?

or do I just need to limit the 2nd to 0 deg

I just limted the angle to 0 on the second

[inner kayak]

i’m not asking for anything to do with senders

just the way receivers measure

it is as if they were flipped yes, which is why i asked for that option

idk the canny explains it better
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/request-option-for-proximity-contacts-to-measure-inverse-to-how-they-do-now

The simplest I can put it:

Current system measures how close a sender enters inside a proximity receivers radius.
(that radius is fixed by the receiver)

I want to measure how far the receiver has entered the currently colliding senders radius.
(radius depends on the colliding sender, so it is not fixed by the receiver)

The receiver still handles the proximity parameter.

[dim cloak]

Yeah I'm gonna just chalk this up to being "use a receiver inside the sender you're using" to get the ability you're looking for. This is already doable with what we have as it is.

[inner kayak]

i’m pretty sure it is not

This is my desired effect, which is possible if the receiver and sender exist on the same avatar using your method.

But this is all you can do on seperate avatars.

Using your method, the receiver on the knife can’t communicate it’s proximity value to the avatar with the sphere.

I want the proximity value on the avatar with the sphere, not the knife.

If you believe you can come up with a solution that works with the existing logic, feel free to share.

[real plinth]

Quick demo of the TnT for my Kart System 😄

[open kite]

Note that the TNT will attach and follow any players head that touches it with either hand or feet

[inner kayak]

how that work

[open kite]

Contact magic!

You can attach Gameobjects to any standard Contact on an Avatar on another player and have those objects follow the Contact

[shrewd estuary]

kaboom

[inner kayak]

too complicated

[near grove]

How do I download the beta on quest? I changed the version on the oculus app and restarted my headset but i still can't update it

[timber jewel]

but how?

[crystal raven]

Dunno, if this is the correct place to talk about it, but is there a plan to add support for multiple root bones per physbone component? (Only thing changing my avatar to poor instead of medium)

[inner kayak]

ima guess proximity contacts surrounding the sender that align it

at least that’s what makes sense to me

probably wrong though as i’ve never seen that kind of system

[open kite]

There's a lot of things that go into the system to make it work

Gonna release it as a package as soon as we're out of beta

[timber jewel]

nice ^^

[open kite]

But that's what I was suggesting for your knife thingy @inner kayak

You could simply have a Receiver that automatically attaches to the closest Sender in a certain radius of the knife

And then put a Sender on the knife

[fallow rock]

I feel a great evil from this. Beware the future that may lie ahead

[open kite]

That way no matter how big the Contact is, the Receiver will always stay the same size

Meaning the distance to the center will always be the same

[inner kayak]

i dont want it to be the same

i want the knife to be able to work at any size

[open kite]

Exactly

Put a scale constraint on the Receiver that scales with the knife

So it will work the same no matter how big the Knife is

[inner kayak]

but if the knife and sphere are on separate avatars, how can i scale to it?

[open kite]

And no matter how big the Contact on the Avatar, the Knife will always have to slide all the way in to activate the animation, which is what I assume you want to do

[inner kayak]

pretty much yeah

[open kite]

The tracker that you attach to the Contact can measure the size of the Contact

And then use that number in a blendtree to adjust the Receiver that's constrained to the Contact you're tracking

[inner kayak]

then yeah that would work, but sadly complicates the logic

[open kite]

Oooooor you could just go with the 2 Receiver method lmao

To figure out how close the center of a Contact is to the knife

Since the Knife can only enter with the tip first, using 2 Receivers should work

[vestal vigil]

ah yes

[fallow rock]

man stabbing people... Handle first

[vestal vigil]

braille username

[open kite]

Well yeah he wants blind people to he able to read his name as well

[inner kayak]

id have to see an example setup to understand i think

not able to piece together how two receivers would work for my use

[fallow rock]

See, he gets it. It's 2022, gotta be inclusive

[open kite]

🤞 👐 🤟 🤟 👉 👆 👊 ✊

Still learning ASL please don't judge

[dim cloak]

Why is this not possible if the sphere on the other avatar is set up identically to the one on the same avatar? Provided this would require coordination between the two creators, but it should still be doable? I do however see what you mean a little more clearly about how the knife functions.

[dim cloak]

Ah I see this now

I had a suggestion, but I immediately found a problem with it with scaling so it wouldn't work haha. I definitely see the use case for what you're asking for. It seems a bit in my eyes niche at the moment, but I can see uses for it and I did give your canny an upvote as having more options wouldn't be a bad thing.

[inner kayak]

[inner kayak]

The goal is that the sender could be any size, so it can account for different prop sizes. In my example, no matter if it was a small knife or a long sword, I want my logic to accommodate it.
I am sure there are plenty more uses for it than something simple like my knife. Having the ability for proximity to measure to the sender's center seems like a very useful feature.

[turbid saffron]

Wouldn't you need to set the contact at the puncture point and make it react instantly? Only issue is coordinating the sizes.

[inner kayak]

we were talking about a feature request canny, and the knife was my example as of why it would be useful

there would be no need to coordinate sizes if we could measure to the center of the contact sender, which is exactly what i want

https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/request-option-for-proximity-contacts-to-measure-inverse-to-how-they-do-now

[turbid saffron]

Yeah, but you were kind of aggressively pushing for a solution in a way that didn't necessarily make this clear, and technically speaking you could use the open beta section for the said feature request. I'll hit the vote on that.

Because this does sound massively useful.

[inner kayak]

i did use the open beta section

[turbid saffron]

Yeah, I was halfway through typing that when you posted the link...

[inner kayak]

[shy plover]

Since the sdk is being updated again, can someone take a look at this please, I'm tired of seeing this issue being asked about like 30 times a day everyday
https://vrchat.canny.io/feature-requests/p/sdk-components-with-missing-scripts-should-prevent-avatar-build-simple-autofix

Autofix code in comments

[restive charm]

Networking beta update tomorrow? 👀

[timber jewel]

what do you mean with "Networking beta"?

[real plinth]

??

[restive charm]

The current beta doesn't support the network, I was hoping to see a stage of the beta support networking so I can test it

[timber jewel]

You mean compatibility with live?

If so, that will likely not happen.

[limber quartz]

Not going to happen. Lot of networking differences between this and live for that to not be possible.

[timber jewel]

Phys Bone tutorial in VRChat be like:

xD

[sullen flame]

lol I am actually looking on youtube trying to find some stuff not much

[raven laurel]

making tutorial now when everything changes is meh idea

they probably gonna drop when it gonna get live

[sullen flame]

guess I might stick with dynamic till then

[real plinth]

I'm considering recording tutorials for these things

[sullen flame]

is there a way to stop the root bone from moving with everything else in phy bone?

hair looks whack atm

[timber jewel]

set the multi child type to ignore

[sullen flame]

Ill probably have to fiddle with it more to stop clipping and such. Ignore helped thanks.

[potent token]

i dont mind if anyone dms me if they need help

[sullen flame]

Definitely excited to get more movement onto quest avatars and such

[stuck grotto]

so I'm looking at my avatar- usually I can inst-convert dynamic to phys but it's not showing (for android, not windows) - if I hit auto fix or try to manually put the physbones into the avatar, the skeletal proportion (inner bones) of the breast region freezes and no amount of physbone or work will fix it. When I go to check everything within the mapped skeletal part the chest is not green- yet the breasts move?? I'm very confused about it

and I just want to have these avatars work (I bought them and I really want them to look good)

[near grove]

Did the menu sounds get changed? Interacting with menu options gives no sound anymore to indicate you have clicked it. That silence is really off putting. This is not an issue in the ik beta.

[inner kayak]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1187-menus-have-lost-audio-feedback-when-raycasting-and-clicking-buttons

[stuck grotto]

I figured it out- I used the old one not new one

[hazy girder]

An avatar I got free yesterday has issues in the beta has parts of her hair sticking up and not going down like it does with the stable build of VRC. Is there a chance this will correct itself or should I look into fixing it?

[heavy tangle]

Quick question, can people without the Open Beta update play with people that do have the Open Beta update? It might be a stpuid question, but I need to know.

[hollow hatch]

No, it is not live compatible. You can use the IK beta to play with Live players, but not the Open Beta which is for the Avatar Dynamics

[heavy tangle]

Gotcha.

[tender kraken]

Where did the beta go

[hollow hatch]

Nowhere

[tender kraken]

Ydum

What do you mean?

[hollow hatch]

There is no announcement of the beta ending, and it's still available on Steam for me.

[tender kraken]

On standalone it's gone

And also y can't vrchat tame merge open beta and live beta ik it's not compatible but it's worth worth working on

[sullen elk]

Probably because as you said it's not compatible.
And it'll make it harder to diagnose what side of things is causing the issues.

[open kite]

Maybe, maybe not, we don't know

It seems like auto conversion of Dynamic Bones failed

They've been improving Phys Bones and auto conversion a lot, but it's far from perfect still. In your performance options you can choose to see Dynamic Bones instead of Phys Bones for now

But that feature will be removed in the future

[heavy furnace]

cant get physbones to work and my arms are inside me. while idle

[fallow rock]

what game build are you on?

[heavy furnace]

like the unity build?

[fallow rock]

The vrchat build so we can see if it's launched into beta or not.
I'm on live so my build is 1174

AD is 1187 I believe

[heavy furnace]

if im below the build, how do i launch in the betas

[fallow rock]

You need to change the properties of the game in steam assuming you use steam.
You can find access to the betas in there

there's full information in #open-beta-info too for joining on all platforms

[heavy furnace]

thank you ill test that

[heavy furnace]

I cahnged it to opt into the beta, it updated and launched with the new build number but the physbones arent functioning still

[fallow rock]

Now that you're in the beta, now you can troubleshoot and actually get results. Are your phys bones running in unity when you simulate?

[heavy furnace]

yeah, they work just fine in unity

[near grove]

Any news or teasers for the release of beta to live or is it still not for a long time. They made alot of amazing progress ♡

[hard pond]

No ETA at this pont.

[near grove]

Ah okie thank u ♡

[warm cedar]

Finally got a better taser B)

I'd recommend anyone that sees a small cherub to run.

[signal vortex]

I really hope they go live soon, I checked out the physbones and they're very well done, running very smoothly and for me there wasn't any performance issues. It's like im on pc almost... almost.

[sullen flame]

is there any way quest users can interact with avatar dynamic stuff. Or is it pc only for now?

[near grove]

afaik, avatar dynamics and interactions works with quest users as well

all of it should work

[sullen flame]

alright cool, about to port my first physbone one

[worldly temple]

Is there any way to make it so that a bone being grabbed follows the rotation of the hand grabbing it?

I have an avatar with a hat that people can take off, but because it's connected to the head by bones, the hat rotates to face its origin

[vagrant shale]

Is it true that the actual update is coming this or next week? I heard someone say it was

[timber jewel]

No, it's not.

Nobody knows when it will go live.

The devs them self probably aren't even sure when it will come out.

So, it comes when it comes.

[marble tiger]

Usually a "Release Candidate" is announced and put into Open Beta, if no significant issues are found it's quickly pushed as the Release build.
Currently there is no Release Candidate, so very likely not any time soon.

[sullen flame]

I heard something about not using the armature with physbones

does that include colliders?

I've been creating an emptyobject for the root

[next snow]

will ik 2.0 and avatar dynamics be in the same update or will they be separate updates?

[small surge]

my guess, seperate - both same time sounds messy

[raw ore]

Yes, best bet is that these will be released in separate release waves.

[near grove]

when will the dynamic bones be released as a live update instead of open beta

[small surge]

+1 week whenever someone ask , no one knows

[near grove]

also whenever i try to join a world on open beta it puts me in a world with no one else

[near grove]

alright

[mortal plume]

they most likely meant the humanoid armature. for example, adding a phys bone component to the first bone of the tail is fine, but adding one to the hip bone is not

even if said tail is part of the model's main armature

[sullen flame]

good to know

[near grove]

anyone know what’s going on?

[open kite]

You can't join people that aren't on the Beta

It's not compatible with live

[near grove]

oh alright

how do i find people who are on beta?

[small surge]

dynamic world - mostly where ive seen people

[near grove]

alright

[limber quartz]

Will be in separate updates. AD will be pushed to live first then IK 2.0 shortly after.

[wet bluff]

Oh, AD first?

I’d imagine it’d be the other way around

[mortal plume]

it'll take a long time for the new IK to be fine tuned enough to the point where most people are happy with it

[stiff acorn]

But I'd suspect that AD will be merged into the IK 2.0 branch if they want to maintain live compatibility when AD launches.

[limber quartz]

Because the ik-beta is network compatible with live, work on that will be done more thoroughly until Kung feels that it's ready to be pushed to the live branch. And yes, AD and IK 2.0 will be merged shortly after AD gets pushed to live.

[vagrant shale]

Awh :(

[shut fern]

when i switched to open beta i re started my headset but vr chat didnt need to update so im confused on how to get it to work. (sorry if this doesnt make sense)

[near grove]

uninstall vrchat and reinstall it

[near grove]

make sure the verison is still on open beta

[shut fern]

Yep i done it!

i uninstalled it before i checked here but thank you!

[dim cloak]

It's actually possible that they will pull IK from live and merge it with AD in an Open Beta (not live compatible) and test them along side each other and then release them together. However, none of us really know for sure if it will be an AD release than IK, or a merged full release.

[muted brook]

they said they would release ad first, then see how ik works with that, then push it

[warm cedar]

Y'all ever think of a great idea

but vrchat said

[muted bloom]

Avatar Dynamics will almost certainly be released to live first. When it does, the IK beta will get updated with Avatar Dynamics, and remain live-compatable, so you'll have both even before IK-Beta is over.

Assuming Av Dyn finishes first... but it probably will. That's the whole reason IK-beta has it's own branch

[muted brook]

this symbol used to hold power over me, but then I realized it was nothing but a wall to stop progress

[sullen elk]

💥

[rugged plover]

hello!! is there where I can ask a question on an issue i'm having with avatar dynamics? :0

[mortal plume]

correct

[rugged plover]

alright cool :D So i'm relatively new to porting characters to vrchat and now with the new physics im learning this too! As you can see in the engine I have some limiters on the physics restricting the movement (you can see the front of her skirt not moving/the side pieces of her hair) but in game it doesn't seem to follow that, is there something i did wrong or missed? Any help is appreciated and I can send any info if need be !!

[small surge]

ingame you do an animation when you move, unity dont

[timber jewel]

you are probably using an old sdk

limits got a rework in the latest beta, so uploads with an older SDK wont work correctly anymore ingame

[rugged plover]

ohh this is the current one I have

[timber jewel]

you can get latest SDK in #open-beta-announcements

[small surge]

mess with the multi child type & Limit type those changed

[timber jewel]

yup, that's an older one

[rugged plover]

I see, alright thank you!! I'll try what both of you sent, thanks BlackRat and Thulen!

[ionic bison]

[timber jewel]

[inner kayak]

[timber jewel]

:o

[inner kayak]

[mental marsh]

E

Imagine imagining how to imagine

[floral flint]

[inner kayak]

[timber jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/party-minions-dancing-party-time-happy-gif-15045334

[hard pond]

soon

[timber jewel]

(hopefully)

[hard pond]

https://tenor.com/view/xiao-xiao-genshin-genshin-impact-mitski-abbey-gif-20840026

[sullen flame]

Avatar dynamic needs the beta installed right?

[hard pond]

yes

[sullen flame]

Oof I guess doing bones with it now would just be for me then as most wont be able to see them

[timber jewel]

:o

[hard pond]

Let's go

[timber jewel]

update :3

now we just need a change log :p

[open blade]

Awesome.

[modest ivy]

🎉

[stable bramble]

• The default PhysBone multi-child behavior has been reverted back to "Ignore" for new components as well as DB conversions

[bright jungle]

pog!

[stable bramble]

Tupper pls

[sullen elk]

Fascinating updates
The integration modes seem exactly what was needed.
Gravity impacts is also top tier

[bright jungle]

also, momentum super pog

will def have to mess with this

[sour epoch]

no, you still need to add it to the parameters list for now

[vague vine]

lol

[gilded stream]

This is build 1188. It isn't exactly a release candidate, but........... :slight_smile:

👀

[timber jewel]

what is that "but" supposed to tell us? :o

[gilded stream]

Probably soon™️

[sullen elk]

It's getting there (tm)

[quasi bramble]

YES

Im just hoping, what else am I supposed to look forward too?

Hey mods if you are seeing this 2 days from now is my birthday. You know what to do 💻 🙂

[stable bramble]

Stupid Q but why is Phase not yellow name

He's literally mentioned in the patch notes

[sour epoch]

I used to have it but people kept DMing me about random stuff too much and I didn't want to close off all DMs

[stable bramble]

i c

[timber jewel]

makes sense

[wind talon]

we don't put most people on the vrchat team list in discord nowadays

because it's a huge pain

[timber jewel]

sad

[wind talon]

you're hired

[timber jewel]

anyone online in beta right now?

[fallow rock]

that sounds terrifying

[gilded stream]

Just hire someone who has no clue what's going on to take all the DMs. Has to be someone random though, and watch as they struggle to get the answers from everyone.

[lyric ocean]

its not even just team just being a nitro booster you will get messaged by random people alot

[sour epoch]

but the DMs aren't even about anything that matters, it was like "can I be your friend" *checks mutual servers* *never said anything anywhere ever*

[lyric ocean]

exactly

[gilded stream]

Big oof

[lyric ocean]

its even worse when your a girl

[gilded stream]

True that.

[sour epoch]

I do miss those sweet custom emote privileges though

[lyric ocean]

i had to stop boosting the server cause of it it was every day 1-3 random people would message me some really creepy or inappropriate to.

[timber jewel]

this is sooooo much better than just putting the Allow/Pause button there

great work ^^

[stable rivet]

dam just checked small bones still don't move

[lyric ocean]

set end bone lengths

[stable rivet]

even if i define a length it will still not move

already made a report and it got marked need more info

[lyric ocean]

lol

verry informative mesage

[dreamy skiff]

thats some nice text

[stable rivet]

lods be like

[inner creek]

👀

[steep umbra]

Again, with the new SDK, model isn't uploading, anyone have any ideas?

[sudden hull]

stop being 2 foot tall 😏

[lyric ocean]

i refuse

[wet bluff]

Well, I was gonna sleep, but I guess I have a little time to play with the advanced mode 🤔

[fallow rock]

The Advanced Forces seems to be working extremely well from the bit of playing I've been doing. Looks like another top Canny post might be Complete

[inner kayak]

too used to XYZ labels that pitch, roll, and yaw confuse me at first glance

[timber jewel]

same xD

[stable bramble]

Just popping in to say that Physbones has gone from being mediocre to far, far better than Dbones over the course of this beta - seriously, well done to the whole team

I'm messing with the newer features now: this has to be the best fake soft bodies tool in Unity now comfortably

[worn crater]

Maybe they should add a dialogue showing what it is in technical detail when you hover over the labels xP

[timber jewel]

Gravity Falloff makes bones a bit jittery

[worn crater]

I agree with this. A lot of hard work poured into this update and they made a lot of additions, improvements, and changes from the countless Canny posts. Well done to the entire VRChat Team. This is going to change the face of the game forever.

[ionic bison]

Odd, I can't repro with a similar tail locally. Might want to try to find any other requirements for the jitter

[timber jewel]

hm weird

I try to build & test it to see if it only occurs in Unity

[ionic bison]

I mean, I can't repro in editor

[timber jewel]

hmmm

When I don't have the avatar selected in play mode it only jitters from time to time

[timber jewel]

but when I do have it selected it behaves like shown here

it looks a bit like Gravity is fighting against Gravity Falloff

and only in cases where a bit of gravity is applied

[sour epoch]

is it being animated?

[timber jewel]

yeah it is, but even with IsAnimated disabled it sill occurs

it only seems to jitter so much in scene view, but not as much in game view

it still jitters a bit, don't get me wrong, but not as much

[worn crater]

Got a burning question: When will the Beta Documentation reflect the latest Open Beta patches?

[timber jewel]

probably before an actual live release

[worn crater]

The page describing the components for PhysBones is still old.

[steep umbra]

@ionic bison Any recommendations on a clean install of the VRCSDK to a unity package?
I've tried updating over the old one, importing to a new package (Which works when uplaoding), then taking that import to my main project, and I've tried removing and installing the latest SDK

[timber jewel]

it probably won't get updated while they are still working on Phys Bones

[muted bloom]

Is what causes this known because that's been my expression menu for years now on my main avatar, I must be causing it.

[timber jewel]

any other ideas / things I should try out?

[lyric ocean]

same idk cause

[timber jewel]

okay, so ingame it jitters as much as it does in unity in the game view

here are the Phys Bone settings, if anyone has any other ideas why it might jitter, please let me know

btw, this is the difference between not having the Avatar selected, having the Avatar selected and having the Tail itself selected (with gravity at max for better visualisation)

[sullen elk]

Try a version without the emulator and no Animator set.
That'll let you know if the animator controllers are causing issues.

[timber jewel]

did that, still happens

even ingame

without my FX controller

okay, without Lyumas 3.0 Emulator it works fine in Untiy (at least it looks like it does) but it still jitters a bit in VRChat it self

[sullen elk]

The issue seems to be one of your controllers specifically then.
Since the emulator combines all your assigned animators into the one VRChat would use.

[inner kayak]

i cant replicate either

tail is just very flow

[shrewd estuary]

[timber jewel]

it has to then yeah, if I build & test my avatar without any controllers the jitter is gone

I can control the tail with this 2 axis pupped, so maybe it is cause issues?

[sullen elk]

Are you using a WD On workflow or WD Off?
Or mixed?

[timber jewel]

let me check real quick

it's turned on

so with WD

[sullen elk]

WD On workflow.

[timber jewel]

I haven't made that blendtree so don't blame me xD

it comes with the base avatar

[sullen elk]

Makes sense why the tail would keep resetting whenever the state resets/re-enters then with the WD On setup.

[timber jewel]

I haven't touched it

[timber jewel]

but why only with Gravity Falloff

[sullen elk]

It could be that the rest position of your tail doesn't match the rest position of the Blend tree's animation perhaps.

[timber jewel]

oh it does, it only jitters when crouching and so on

so when I'm not in a position where Gravity Falloff would take effect

[stable bramble]

There's no way to pull the velocity of a send->receive trigger in dynamics, right?

Actually I guess I could have multiple triggers at different velocity levels 🤔

But ideally I'd want to be able to go "oh this sender collided with this trigger at this velocity, so I'll set this float to N that is related to that velocity"

Ideally a lerp between min possible trigger being 0 and some max velocity that would be 1

[timber jewel]

even with write defaults off it still jitters

I'm confused

[timber jewel]

so yeah it basically comes down to this

still weird

Combined it down in to a canny post: https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1188-using-gravity-falloff-on-an-phys-bone-which-is-animated-causes-it-to-jitter

and now, I need sleep. it's 6:43 am....

[hard pond]

haha....5.55 for me...

[devout sapphire]

where tf is the newest physbones SDK? with gravity falloff?

[bright jungle]

in the announcement post
https://files.vrchat.cloud/sdk/VRCSDK3-AVATAR-2022.04.14.17.35_Public.unitypackage

[devout sapphire]

ahh thank you ❤️

[hard pond]

always on #open-beta-announcements FYI next time.

[devout sapphire]

i've not yet slept, i'm dopey af rn lol

[lean raven]

Theoretically, with the new avatar dynamics, could it be possible to have a small amogus that can be launched with ragdoll physics with the smack of your hand and or blunt weapon and explode after launching far enough?

[outer python]

i must see this now

[mental marsh]

E

[mossy cedar]

How many avatars with physics are released?

[bright jungle]

don't think that's something any of us'd know lol

[warm cedar]

A couple

I'd recommend to look up "dynamics" in the avatar worlds section

[mossy python]

Behold, the Quest compatible (and somehow not Very Poor) slots machine avatar is done

Now with some RGB accents to make playing even MORE enticing

[strange spoke]

Just wanted to add from reading these patch notes, i think it's incredible that you guys are able to add entirely new features and function to the new physics bones

that new gravity falloff sounds like fun to mess with, if i'm thinking of it the right way, i think means i no longer need a collider in my head for my hair? that would be awesome!

[river wedge]

just a heads up
if contacts no longer require the use of a float
the documentation hasn't been updated to reflect that change

[ionic bison]

Thanks for the heads up, we've been making a bunch of iterative changes so we'll need to do another pass on the documentation once everything is settled

[humble pulsar]

The update so far is fantastic, and you can clearly see its very close to being a release candidate. I’m super exited and ready now. Great job to VRChat team. You guys are legends

[near grove]

Why do i have a feeling it is coming live soon the annocment said live candidate

🥴

[humble pulsar]

They said it isn’t exactly a release candidate which means it’s not quite there yet. However, it does mean that it is close to release

Unless I’m wrong and just release the update today lol

[timber jewel]

Maybe next week will be a release candidate :o

Wait, I thought they fixed that

[small surge]

that was a offline test , lemme actually upload 🔨

err could be cause i never actually updated my vrchat, i just use a bat file to skip that

(didnt start steam yet)

yep that was it 🤦

[timber jewel]

ooof xD

[vague nacelle]

for some reason i cant grab any of the physbones did i forget to enable something in my wrist collider?

[small surge]

Do they have radius / allow grabbing on

[vague nacelle]

allow grabbing is on i am unsure why it is doing this

do i have to set up contact send and receives?

[small surge]

if it has radius it should be easy to grab

shows up blue in debug

[vague nacelle]

radius on wrist or the psybone i am grabbing?

[small surge]

physbone need radius, or its thin as a hair

[vague nacelle]

yea its the bones they have a thin deal thank you

none of them are showing up blue at all lol

the radius on the bones was set to 0 XD

[timber jewel]

Is it possible to animate Gravity?

[queen falcon]

Love the update, the falloff gravity is perfect for what I need. The jitters when using gravity falloff and animations is a bit of a pain, but hopefully that will get ironed out soon. Awesome work ❤️

[muted bloom]

Release candidate candidate

[shrewd estuary]

[hazy geode]

It isn't exactly a release candidate, but......................... 🙂

[muted bloom]

It’s not exactly a release candidate candidate but it’s a candidate for the release candidate candidate

[fallow rock]

Deep panic sets in

[muted brook]

just pls no push until next week

[plain orchid]

Not sure if this is reported, but has anyone else noticed certain angle sloped angles such as railing cause IsGrounded to be spammed and Y velocity to spam between -0.08 to 0.08. This is happening what appears nearly every other frame on the beta version

https://cdn.lewd.host/05oiwnzD.mp4 Note: this video is lower fps and so its not matching up perfectly how fast this is actually spamming
In the video the left side being the stable branch and the right side being the beta.
As closely as possible i matched the location of both client to showcase the incline in the beta is performing differently the the live.
I assume this is not intended behavior

I noticed this because my locomotion layer is constantly entering a falling state due to IsGrounded turning false so quickly

[timber jewel]

I have not noticed this yet, I'm also not really able to reproduce it

[small surge]

not seeing either, id check your base controller

[timber jewel]

I bet there are just a few things left they still want to add, so maybe next week we will get a release candidate

[lyric ocean]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1188-stiffness-converts-to-max-angle-and-not-stiffness-improperly
heres a post i mad stiffness is still converted to max angle witch causes some issues now that actual stiffness it in Physbones it should be converted to that instead.

like if you do a stiffness fall off it will just make your max angle 0 so your bones are immobile

@timber jewel i made the post found what was broken with my hair

lol my stiffness falloff just gets put on max angle and it set it to 0 and thats what the ingame converter does to

as far as i can tell its the only big setting that doesn't convert properly.

[timber jewel]

good, upvoted it

[lyric ocean]

ya im pretty sure thay converted it that way before cause stiffness dident exist in Phys bones at the time now it does so hopefully this gets updated in the converter

[timber jewel]

probably yeah

[lyric ocean]

seems like a easier fix as its a setting now its the reason some avatars have stiff bones in the conversion is thay use stiffness like this

[vague wolf]

Did they just hint that it’s gonna be releasing soon??

[vague wolf]

Also good to know there’s an angle limit.I’ve been having troubles with my bones going everywhere

[lyric ocean]

and yes usually once we get a to release candidate its released within a week if no major bugs pop up

[vague wolf]

That’s awesome!!

[lyric ocean]

my guess is Tuesday

thats there preferred release date

but in the end only thay know

but its close

[vague wolf]

Ack I can’t wait!

[small surge]

cant wait for so many people asking why they cant grab the hair when its autoconverted with 0 radius 🐇

most never set one

[lyric ocean]

o ya

[vague wolf]

Heheh not like that never happened to me

[lyric ocean]

that one cant be helped as much

[vague wolf]

Ok yeah i did but in my defence I’m new to avatar making

It was funny when I found it out

[small surge]

Seen a few av thats auto converted at the avatar dynamics hub, people kept trying to grab things and flail, enable debug mode see if it has any visible

[vague wolf]

Ah good to know

[timber jewel]

sometimes even on the same day :p

[lyric ocean]

ya though thay tend to prefer to do major releases on Tuesdays so its not over weekend

[vague wolf]

Interesting they chose Tuesday

[timber jewel]

yup, so they have a bit of time to fix things

[lyric ocean]

ya gives them monday to prepair then thay got the whole week to fix issues instead of losing there weekend on it

[timber jewel]

it's probably the best date tbh

[vague wolf]

Ah that’s fair!

[inner creek]

This has happened since VRC started, it's even more noticeable when walking on uneven terrain meshes.

You really notice it when it eats your jump on slopes

[plain orchid]

https://vrchat.com/home/launch?worldId=wrld_e0d31671-093b-4a15-9057-ef14673511f4 Stand on the railing in front of the glass. I may make a test world if need be.

[plain orchid]

I showing two clients in the same location one on beta one on live

So no

This is a newer issue

[plain orchid]

@timber jewel You can use this avi to show your exact location and can match it to mine https://vrchat.com/home/avatar/avtr_2fbd5892-883e-4b14-a22e-9b2dadb54399

[ashen terrace]

hype

[stray flicker]

hey i know you

[ashen terrace]

[near grove]

Hello, I downloaded the Open beta from the oculus app and I don't know how to go back to the old version, even if I select it from the oculus app it doesn't work, someone helps me 😢

[wintry notch]

You have to reinstall VRC after you revert the version

[inner kayak]

the more i pull, the stiffer the bag gets

stretch only applies to the root bone or something?

oh nvm i figured it out

root bone and next child bone were in the exact same spot, and i guess it creates that effect

[lean raven]

I feel if I had a bag like that on my avatar, I'd just end up flailing my hand around really fast occasionally

[lapis urchin]

It isn't exactly a release candidate, but...
Does this imply that a release candidate (if not the release) is near?

[inner kayak]

The conversion from Dynamic Bone gravity to PhysBone gravity, at least on the Y axis, needs to be inverted.

my avatat once converted has the strings going upward

[dreamy bridge]

when will the features in the current open beta (physbones, avatar interactions, etc) be added into the live version?

[inner kayak]

dynamic bone used negative gravity as downward gravity

[timber jewel]

you just reminded me on how unorganised the Dynamic Bone script was / is xD

[outer python]

We don't know yet but soon being the latest updates post

[dreamy bridge]

okay, thank you

[timber jewel]

have you made a canny about that yet?

[timber jewel]

is it possible that the whole chain moves when touching the end of it instead of just the bottom part?

[covert jetty]

Anyone got some good avatars for cuddling in or worlds with physics bone avatars?

(Quest version)

[warm cedar]

Who needs cuddles when you can be a cherub bot

[left chasm]

Has anyone here tested the open beta using an old oculus rift cv1? Trying to work out if an issue im experiencing is hardware related

[warm cedar]

Well you could explain the issue

[bright jungle]

would def help to describe the issue you're having, don't want to fall into the XY problem lol

[left chasm]

This is quite difficult to explain, but essentially, something is being done to the refresh rate or the fps of the VR display which results in the game looking "laggy" even though I'm at a very clear and solid 90fps

This does not happen in the live vrchat branch, nor does it happen in other vr apps

and since it also happens in vrchat's very own loading screen, im assuming its not an avatar/world related issue

[bright jungle]

try reinstalling the game? If the issue is reproduceable, I'd recommend making a canny post about the issue, with your system specs and headset listed: https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta
a video of the issue could be vv helpful as well, if possible

[left chasm]

This isn't something that can be recorded on video as it closely relates to refresh rate/fps, the issue would not be visible at all on a 30 frames per second rendered out video. (I tried)

But yes, I think I will make a canny post

[raven laurel]

if video doesn't pick it up then indeed it could be headset related issue

[inner kayak]

haven’t had time, today became throw everything in a big dumpster day

i can later, otherwise feel free

[timber jewel]

I'm way too tired to do anything right now xD

[warm cedar]

Since the devs are making it obvious the beta won't take that much longer, here's your friendly reminder to use "Damage" for global PVP contacts.

That's __D__amage with a Capital D!

[left chasm]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1188-incorrect-display-refresh-ratefps-problem

If anyone wants to upvote or read more details

[slender ocean]

Anyone else having an issue where the finger colliders are way too long? Is there something wrong with my armature that might cause this? I cant fix it in the avatar descriptor, the changes dont work in game

its been an issue since the beginning, but the canny i made never got much attention so im starting to think its something im doing wrong

[warm cedar]

With. a Capital D.

[muted bloom]

Just saw you already said so XD

[warm cedar]

I'll repeat it as many times as I have to! XD

[sour epoch]

in the avatar descriptor, there's a dropdown for colliders. are fingers set to anything other than automatic by chance?

[slender ocean]

well thats the problem, on automatic they are too long, and on custom they cant be made any shorter

[sour epoch]

what does the armature look like in blender?

[warm cedar]

that looks like a chimera to me

This happening on a premium avatar is rough.. yeesh

[halcyon creek]

Def a chimera- big ouch

[slender ocean]

I usually use leaf bones, but have tried both ways, and it makes no difference

[warm cedar]

I think you should contact the o.g creator for this, this is pretty important

[slender ocean]

ive got bad news for you...

[halcyon creek]

Oh dear wait

[sour epoch]

hm, the medium, long, then short finger bones may be confusing the collider generator

usually it's a safe assumption that all finger bones are roughly the same as the ones before them

[slender ocean]

ok, I can try that

[muted bloom]

Thanks for making that avatar by the way it’s awesome :p

[muted bloom]

Might be better to go with positional from front to back?

[warm cedar]

Hehe, didn't realize it

Y'know if I had the money I'd be telling people chimera's were superior instead of cherubs

but meh, cherub was free so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slender ocean]

hey that was the issue! thanks so much, I've been banging my head against that for weeks

[sour epoch]

woo!

[slender ocean]

🎉

[mossy python]

Hmmm wonder what that could mean

[stone rapids]

How do you make the contact receivers parameter a bool? I know it used to be required to be a float, and they changed it. But if I try to use it like a bool, it doesn’t work. Only works as a float?

I keep asking this in here and no one answers me 😕

[sullen flame]

wait are pysbones in live now?

[stone rapids]

No

[sullen flame]

darn

how do you implement for quest

to test

[muted brook]

read the docs

[sullen flame]

I am, trying to find it in here

[warm cedar]

Remember kids, when you think an update will come out "soon", don't say "soon", say "soon™️"

[timber jewel]

xD

[warm cedar]

What's the difference?

"soon" means that it will release anytime now

"Soon™️" means it will release When we get pinged, smartass.

[limber quartz]

in this case, we could remove the "tm" 👀

[warm cedar]

don't count on it

Keep the expectations low, it's almost easter

[timber jewel]

Phys Bones as an Easter present? :o

[sullen flame]

lol

[warm cedar]

You know what I meant.*

*If you know that is

It would really surprise me if they were to release it today, And I'd be fucjed

cherub physbones do not return to their original position properly anymore :,)

[timber jewel]

?

[warm cedar]

Their rotation stays a certain way, I'll fix it later

[muted brook]

id be fucked if they release it today also. cause i need to tune it all

[sullen flame]

you would be boned

lol

I know it was bad

[warm cedar]

the bombshell that was 1187 hit us hard

[muted brook]

but I would give my left kidney to the devs if they made osc and contacts able to be used with local parameters

[warm cedar]

Canny it

[muted brook]

pretty sure it already is

[warm cedar]

Then send it here

so we can updoot it

[sullen flame]

When it comes out I dont relish reimporting all my avatars

Might just do new ones

[muted brook]

found one from 5 hours ago
https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/allow-osc-to-manipulate-local-only-parameters

[reef vault]

So anyone want to help suggest the right settings for my avatar’s jacket bone physics?

[lyric ocean]

lol avatars like this are why dynamic bones kill your game

[mental marsh]

[reef vault]

Wait hold on why can't I use the vrchat SDK?

I get the reload sdk option on unity

[timber jewel]

remove pumpkin tools if you have it

[reef vault]

Ah fudge

Yep I do

Remind me what pumpkin tools are again?

XD

[timber jewel]

it doesn't like the new SDK and creates console errors

[reef vault]

OH

That's what it is

I don't actually use pumpkin tools anymore anyways

[timber jewel]

then just delete the folder for it ^^

[reef vault]

Finally there's this.

Okay fixed

[lean raven]

• Jacket
• Yozora icon
  Are you making a Yozora Avatar? I'd love to see that

[reef vault]

Mhm!

[wet bluff]

I modified pumkin to work with this beta if anyone wants it

Actually never mind

I got it kinda working

[slender ocean]

Contacts will now accept a parameter and send an according value instead of requiring the use of a float
So how does this work? It's still just a text field, what happens if you have one animator were that name is a bool, and other where it is an int? How does it know?

oh my gosh it does work

thats neat

[rain root]

I’m trying to open beta and it won’t work. It won’t say that VRchat needs an update, I’m stuck on live

[wheat pelican]

So is the live version coming soon because people are saying so and other people are saying to not get your hopes up

[hollow hatch]

Using Steam? Restart Steam. Using the Oculus App? Restart it. Using a Quest? Restart the Quest

[hollow hatch]

we don't know when it will be released

[wheat pelican]

Dam

I can tell its close tho

[inner kayak]

i made a canny and attempted to make a clip to demonstrate, but on an identical prefab made from my hoodie string bones i cannot replicate it

i think dynamic bones gravity is just super broken

[timber jewel]

lmao best bug report on the world xD

[shrewd estuary]

[timber jewel]

weird, tbh I fell like a lot of things about Dynamic Bones are broken ngl xD

[inner kayak]

on my avatar i set -0.003 for gravity on the strings, but on another i had to use 1500 for gravity to have any effect

and its inverted

i am happy physbones just works compared to whatever this is

[timber jewel]

maybe it depends on the bone rotation?

[inner kayak]

possibly, but i duplicated my strings and that was enough to break gravity so

i think its a bit more than that

[slender ocean]

check armature scale, depending on your import settings (or rather blender export settings) your armature may have 100x scale, requiring 100x smaller values to have the same effect in some conditions

[inner kayak]

I use CATS export, so armature is always 1,1,1. I did scale the root to 0.6 though.

[muted bloom]

beats the avatar that just turnt my entire screen yellow when i turned on debug

[timber jewel]

@lyric ocean ik what you mean xD

[shrewd estuary]

[inner kayak]

so i finally learned how dynamic bone gravity works and yeah conversion is really scuffed

[sullen elk]

It's awful, it's why many just did a force and hope

[surreal delta]

hi everyone so i need help connecting my steam account to sdk so i can upload my avatar now ive played vr chat alot and i dont know how to connect my steam account to sdk as thats what i use to play vr chat

eh im working on unity

doing ??? this isnt helping me guys

this shit

[timber jewel]

This channel is for discussion about ongoing open betas, if you need help wit connecting your Steam and VRChat account please use #user-support-old.

[surreal delta]

okay thanks

[inner kayak]

it did what gravity falloff is doing now tho

[timber jewel]

Gravity Falloff at 0 = Force from DB
Gravity Falloff at 1 = Gravity from DB

everything in between is a mixture out of both

[inner kayak]

physbones is a lot more user friendly

dynamic bones was a magic black box for me anytime i touched it

[timber jewel]

same xD

[near grove]

yoo

is it hard to get out of open beta on DESKTOP?

[timber jewel]

I think for auto conversion they should make it so when Force is used, they should put Gravity Falloff at 0 and when Gravity was used they should put Gravity Falloff at 1.

if both were used, they should do something in between 0 and 1

[inner kayak]

they are doing that

[timber jewel]

are they?

I didn't knew they were using Gravity Falloff for auto conversion yet

[inner kayak]

guess so

[timber jewel]

anyway, I have to go to bed it's 4:20 am for me

[inner kayak]

[timber jewel]

good night ^^

[inner kayak]

they dont seem to account for mixing, gravity takes over and its set to 1, but gravity conversion is still really broken

[timber jewel]

What's so broken about it actually?

I haven't converted an avatar with Gravity yet

[near grove]

??

[sudden hull]

no, it's as easy as opting in!

[inner kayak]

i have no idea... i just did the same thing i tested earlier and it converts fine

[timber jewel]

Weird

[inner kayak]

but my hoodie strings in game are inverted after conversion, so there is something

[timber jewel]

Hmmmm

[near grove]

but, u know how ppl on quest have troible? well., if it like that, then i don wanna risk it

[sudden hull]

Yeah but desktop isn't quest 👀

[near grove]

alr!

ima try it!

[timber jewel]

That's because of how dumb the Quest store is and not because of VRChat it self

[near grove]

ooooh

ye'i know

[timber jewel]

Nothing they can really do about it

[near grove]

its just difficulties on their side and users

[timber jewel]

I kinda want to put gravity on everything since we now have gravity falloff ngl xD

[near grove]

oojhhhh

i seee

[near grove]

ty

[near grove]

and ty too'

[slow moss]

Why is the beta not network compatible?

[sullen elk]

Because it's a bad idea to mix Live people with people who're playing a build that introduces game changing and avatar breaking changes?

[near grove]

short n sweet

[molten cobalt]

because you have to network the Avatar Dynamics stuff

[near grove]

in and out

[near grove]

^ this

it would most likely break the game

its like

trying to put a test thats possibly bugged out to be used, ruining the experience for some others. this way, people can try it. instead of being forced to do it

[molten cobalt]

and pretty much like the majority of open betas are not at work compatible

[sullen elk]

We're just lucky that AD uploaded avatars are able to be used on Live without issue.
I'm very happy I can keep updating my model with AD and not have anything bad happen to my Live appearance.

[rustic citrus]

Is this the place to ask for help with AD? I'm trying to wire up a collider to, on entry, toggle between two states in my FX animator. The collider for the contact receiver changes color when entered by the desired colliders, but it does not appear that any state transition is made, and I am unsure how to debug this further.

[sullen elk]

Have you set your parameters and transitions?

[rustic citrus]

Yes, but I am unsure if I have set them up correctly. I have two states that each play an animation with one keyframe that swaps out a material, with the transition set to be when a parameter is >0, and I have that same parameter name in the Parameter field in the Receiver; does it need to be namespaced to the animator or something?

[sullen elk]

If parameter is the same name, you're using a contact reciever, your have the correct collision check for that contact.
What type did your set your parameter to?
And what velocity?

Customary question of is your layer weight 1 as well.

[rustic citrus]

It's set to be a float and the layer is layer weight is 1. The min velocity is set to be 0.05; I have no feel for how fast that is; is it in a particular unit, like m/s?

[sullen elk]

That's all good.
Did you check the debug menu in VRC to see if your Float was changing on enter?

You can also do the same test in Unity Play Mode but needs a contact setup for it

[rustic citrus]

The variable is changing in the debug menu, but it is marked as being a bool there, for some reason

[sullen elk]

Might be the issue, check your animators and their parameter names and types

[rustic citrus]

I swapped out the existing float parameter in the animator controller with a bool of the same name and, after uploading, the behavior did not change

[slender ocean]

careful when swapping out parameters, I know there is a unity bug where if you delete a parameter that is still in use by one or more transitions, without removing them from each transition first, those transitions will be forever broken until you delete the entire transition and make it again

[rustic citrus]

I recreated the transitions to doublecheck, and there is still no change, unfortunately. The animation graph behaves like this in play mode; I don't know if this is correct or a sign I've screwed up the transitions

[wheat fjord]

yay we got momentum

I'm having issues getting logged in on both unity and vrc

[real plinth]

Has anyone experienced an issue where synched parameters suddenly refuse to sync?

I've been having that suddenly and there seems to be NOTHING causing it in the FX or Parameters list

I've tried just about everything with a team of people to fix it, and found nothing.

Oddly enough, removing the parameter that activates these (a button tied to a bool) let's the animation activate automatically when the conditions are met and apparently syncs it again?.

If anyone knows anything, PLEASE, don't hesitate to get in touch

[opal pasture]

how do i check in unity if the bones are actually moving?

dumb question!

nevermind, figured it out

[wicked spire]

how do I get phys bones on unity?

[real plinth]

You update your SDK to the beta

Be careful tho, if you update it, you can't really revert it

Best to make a separate project for it

[wicked spire]

Thank you, one more question. How does one update to the beta SDK

[real plinth]

Simply download the Sdk and unpack the package into your asset folder over the current one

[wicked spire]

I need you to understand that I am sleep deprived and stupid before I say it only shows the 3.0 world and avatar sdk's and not the beta one

[fallow rock]

Grab the beta in the Announcements channel above

[wicked spire]

Thank you

[timber jewel]

yeah idk why tf it puts gravity at -14, just experimented with it as well right now, gravity is way to high after conversion

[turbid turret]

Just a thought, gravity and force in dynamic bones are dependent on the armature scale. If phys bones gravity is not affected by the armature scale, does the converter account for the armature scale in its conversion?

[inner kayak]

it somehow comes up with -14 for gravity so i assume it does

[timber jewel]

but in a really wrong way

😅

[floral barn]

am I supposed to be able to see physbone colliders in the editor?

I've turned the collision radius up above zero, and "show gizmos" is checked, but I don't see anything in the scene view indicating what the collision volume is like

[floral barn]

oops. I just had gizmos disabled in my scene view altogether....

I don't suppose there's any way to have the hemispheres on the ends of a physbone collider capsule recede into the bone's specified length

i.e. can I turn up a bone's collision radius without the collider getting LONGER

the bone's already the correct length, why are the ends of the capsule collider being put beyond that

[timber jewel]

The collision raidus applies to all sides of the bone, so also to the end of it

[floral barn]

right, I get why it's happening; I'm saying it would be convenient if there was a toggle to offset the bone's start by whatever the radius is set to, and shorten it by twice that

[timber jewel]

hm idk if that's really needed tbh

normally the bone shouldn't end right where the mesh ends but a bit before that

[floral barn]

why?

[timber jewel]

so that things like this work correctly xD

I honestly don't know (not someone who does 3D Models / rigging), I just know that's how you would normally do it

[crystal raven]

If i use these do i need to setup senders? or does this work automatically?

i haven't added anything to the feet

[timber jewel]

The senders / colliders are automatically added to your Avatar

You can find them at the bottom of your Avatar Descriptor

[crystal raven]

ah i see, thanks!

another question

is there a way to preview the contact working in play mode?, it doesn't seem to change the parameter in the fx controller

[timber jewel]

Not really, the contact senders are on your feet idk how you would put them to the receiver in unity xD

You make a custom one that has the Toot L Tag though

[crystal raven]

Ah, alright, so if I make a custom one with the same tag it works in unity?

[timber jewel]

It should

But forget to put your FX controller in the Animatior of the Avatar when you want to test it in play mode

[crystal raven]

Alright thanks! I'll try it out

it's weird how constants use floats, oh well

[timber jewel]

You can use a bool

[floral barn]

I've got a phys bone that allows stretching, and I'm testing it in editor, and I see the bone's gizmo stretching properly, but the vertices weighted to the bone are only responding to the bone's rotation, NOT its new length

[timber jewel]

That's weird, could you show it with a video?

[timber jewel]

could you show me the Phys Bone script (a screenshot is enough)

I have an idea why it's looking like that

[floral barn]

meaning the component values in the inspector?

[timber jewel]

yup

[timber jewel]

hmmm

what happens when you move the last bone of the chain manually in unity?

[floral barn]

nothing

[timber jewel]

what is that one called?

or just send a screen shot of the hierarchy

[timber jewel]

okay, yeah ik why it isn't working

basically you hair is just one bone, the Hair_end is just the end point of that bone so it isn't actually weight painted

so when you go and grab it, it doesn't drag anything with it

[floral barn]

so do I make a base bone with nothing weighted to it to define the center of rotation, and then a tip bone that actually has the weights assigned?

[timber jewel]

This is basically what's happening, all of the hair is attached to the first bone, so nothing changes when you stretch it

Do you have access to Blender?

[floral barn]

Yes

[timber jewel]

are able to weight paint the bone etc. ?

[floral barn]

yes

[near grove]

hi im new to making avatars and i was wondering what to use to make them

[timber jewel]

okay, so then basically give the hair two bones, weight paint the first part of it to the first bone and the second part of it to the second bone

[timber jewel]

#avatar-help or #avatar-general

[timber jewel]

So like this

You should remove the _end bone then tough

[floral barn]

wouldn't I have to break the link to the fbx asset to do that?

[timber jewel]

yeah it probably would :/

I have another idea but idk how good that would work

[floral barn]

what is it?

[timber jewel]

give me a sec

[sick badger]

I personally haven't had issues adding bones when updating the fbx, but removing them breaks it
You can always just make a backup or the blender file and fbx just in case too

[timber jewel]

we would need to add new bones, that might break it

[floral barn]

I've added bones no problem

[sick badger]

Same

[floral barn]

it's needing to delete the _end gameobject

[timber jewel]

okay then you could try it

[sick badger]

You could just subdivide the bone and leave the _end

But again I would back up everything first

To be safe

[crisp scarab]

nvm, found it out

[floral barn]

is there any way to force a child bone not to have physics like its parent?

I swear I saw something like that in the docs but now I'm not sure where

I've tried overriding the root with a Phys Bone component on the child with everything set to 0 (except Immobile, set to 1) but it still jiggles independently from the parent

[mortal plume]

add it as an exclusion

[floral barn]

where?

[timber jewel]

There

[floral barn]

hovering on it says it automatically includes its own children

[timber jewel]

Wait so you want it like b1 > b2 >b3 but you don't want b2 to have physics?

[floral barn]

correct

b2 is only there to work around the stretch bug

[timber jewel]

Why do you want b3 btw?

[floral barn]

I don't, it makes it automatically

[timber jewel]

Just delete it

The end bones don't need to be there

They are just there to mark the end of a bone

[floral barn]

I would have to unpack the prefab to do that

so any further changes to the model wouldn't show up automatically any more

[timber jewel]

Or just put b3 in the ignore transform

[floral barn]

oh wild -- putting b2 in the ignore transform made it stop working

but putting b3 makes it act how I want

I don't understand, but that'll do, thank you

[mortal plume]

because Unity has no concept of bone "length"

for a bone to have physics, you need at least 2 bones in a chain. one to determine where it starts, and another on the end of the first so that unity knows where the first one ends

[timber jewel]

So if your setup is like:
Hair_1
Hair_2
Hair_2_end

And you put Hair_2 in ignore transform Hair_2_end will also be ignored since it's a child of it

[mortal plume]

and if you put hair_2 in there, now hair_1 has no length

[floral barn]

ahhhhhh

ok that makes sense

thank you!