open-beta-discussion

[wheat fjord]

Today the 25 is exactly one week after last release for the AD beta.

[wintry scroll]

same, but also I legit see things like a broken shader irl, so I have a excuse.

[wheat fjord]

why can't missing shaders be a different color

[loud fjord]

Question, I have noticed that when given the option to convert dynbones to physbones the hand colliders are removed, it got me thinking are hand colliders no longer nessicary? Does physbones and vrchat automatically add them at runtime?

[wheat fjord]

Yes

Hand and finger colliders are always on when you check the "allow collisons" box

[loud fjord]

So I shouldent add hand colliders to avatars going forward?

awesome

[wheat fjord]

Its unnecessary. IDK though if you only wanted self interaction though if you should still name them

[wintry scroll]

yeah the only benefit is if you want other user to never interact with that specific physbone

[restive charm]

my guess is a week after the final beta update, idk when that will be

[warm cedar]

And about a bout 2 weeks before the 2nd to last beta update

[near grove]

It is when it is, I am sure there is no way to get a total idea of when and if it will happen, but it will happen, so as they say, patience young Anakin.

[near grove]

So you can see how much you failed, and it can shout, "HEY LOSER, YOU MISSED ME!"

No but in reality, it is so it is really easy to notice them, I think the pink is an industry standard, as Valve does the same thing IIRC.

[timber jewel]

Nope the you don't. Btw you can see / change the automatic generated ones at the bottom part of your Avatar Descriptor, there should be a "Colliders" section

[stable mantle]

Adding a thumb contact sender can be useful if you want your thumb to register as a finger (for some reason the SDK lacks thumbs as a default), but actual colliders are (currently) self-contained and therefore unnecessary unless you'll be using your thumb on yourself a lot.

e.g. I have a contact sender on each thumb that sends "Finger", "Finger [R/L]", & "Thumb [R/L]" in that order.

The default fingers are already defined and named so there's no need to add colliders nor contacts. Just the thumb.

[shrewd estuary]

no

p i n k

[stable mantle]

Pink is useful and I believe @near grove is correct — Most other software that uses 3D utilizes pink as "missing texture" or "missing material". Blender, Unity, Source, etc.

If it were subtle you might just be like a dog and go "this is fine."

We already have enough of that in terms of poorly optimized worlds and avatars in VRC. 😅

[timber jewel]

why not make them rainbow

[near grove]

Imagine if your avatar was just missing shaders, but you couldn't tell because it wasn't hot pink

[bright jungle]

it's good for it to be eye-searing, so you'll notice it

[shrewd estuary]

lets make it a bright version of this color

gotta really deliver the message of "fix ur broken as shit shader lol"

[stable mantle]

You'd be surprised how chipper both brown and olive can be at brighter tones.

In theory VRChat could also just replace models with broken/missing assets with a giant ERROR.

[proud vault]

Even in Industrial settings pink/purple means bad quality or missing data

[bright jungle]

install css smh

[stable mantle]

💯

[mossy python]

One of my friends actually made that his fallback for a bit

[stable mantle]

Have an error if you click on a broken model that goes:

"Whilst Counter Strike: Source is not required here, this model is still missing one or more assets."

[stable mantle]

Clever

[mossy python]

My fallback is just a cube saying ‘This is a Fallback Avatar’ with instructions on how to enable it lmao

[bright jungle]

make a fallback avatar which is just your avatar, falling backwards infinitely

[timber jewel]

this is mine xD

[mossy python]

Just replace every animation in the locomotion layer with some form of a falling down anim

[stable mantle]

Mine has this:

Low poly version (thanks CATS) with a fallback "shield".

[mossy python]

We all have very creative fallbacks lmao

Before mine was just Kenny from South Park because it’s Excellent on Quest and was eligible lmao

[warm cedar]

I was thinking of a cherub with a blue screen of death for my fallback lol

[mossy python]

Too many people thought I was ‘tall Kenny’ which prompted me to make the cube

[stable mantle]

I wanted at least a "lite" version of my avatar, as a fallback, that way people can see basic movement and animation, etc. So I used cats to push the "base" avi, about 20K poly, down to 9900, and slapped the shield on there.

Works pretty well.

[warm cedar]

My fallback would have to have the face removed, But I think I could easily fix stuff like that now

[stable mantle]

Nintendo 64 it

[warm cedar]

DECIMATION

GO

BRRRR

[mossy python]

Everybody uses cats decimation

Real chads un-subdivide to make it look intentionally worse

[wintry scroll]

I was able to manually decimate my avatar down to <10k. Had to use data transfer modifier to reproject the normals from my original model to my decimated version.

[mossy python]

Oh that is really fucking smart

I use data transfer for stuff like eyes normally but never though of using it on a decimated model

I’ll have to give that a try

[bright jungle]

would heavily recommend edge loop dissolving over decimating, as it doesn't destroy your topology, and gives you much, much more control over the process

[mossy python]

^

[wintry scroll]

it messed up my weight painting, but that wasn't hard to fix

[wheat fjord]

I want this avatar

[mossy python]

It was not that hard to make lol

In fact it’s just the default blender cube with a humanoid skeleton and some rotated UVs

[mortal plume]

CATS bake is an easy way to create a quest fallback with not too much effort

[wheat fjord]

I've never used blender besides once when I needed to import a model

now I avoid blender at all costs

[mossy python]

Don’t do that

[mortal plume]

it'll smart decimate for you, repack all of the UV islands, bake the original textures over, and do a normal bake from your original to the low poly

[mossy python]

Blender is awesome

I’ve been using for 2 years and it’s just become part of my daily practice

[wheat fjord]

I have an avi that animations wont work on quest because it changes all the materials on the mesh

[mossy python]

That works on Quest

[wheat fjord]

It doesn't

[mossy python]

I use material swap anims all the time

[inner kayak]

i put this in my hair

[mossy python]

Like this is a toggle lol

You literally fucking can lmao

Material swaps =/= material slots

[mortal plume]

^^^

[mossy python]

I have 160 materials on one of my Quest avatars but only 2 slots so it’s medium quality

Then atlas materials

Make customized materials with complex FX layer setups then

I did that for my Minecraft fallback to have blinking and mouth movements independent of each other with only one material slot

Then don’t bitch lul

[warm cedar]

Mind if I yoink that?

any type of royalties? credits?

[shrewd estuary]

p e r m e n a n t l y b o r r o w

[wheat fjord]

also I'll bitch if I wanna bitch

can't stop me

[warm cedar]

I bitch about the performance system 24/7

[dim cloak]

Performance being poor in game is often due to a lot of poorly made avatars to be fair though.

[mossy python]

When it comes to my private avatars I don’t optimize my stuff much

But when it comes to my public stuff like worlds and public avatars?

I optimize the shit out of it if I can at all help it

[dim cloak]

It just helps for worlds that are hosting partys/large gatherings is all.

If I'm just kicking back with friends I'm not as concerned about it.

Also glad that someone cares about optimizing public avatars, we could use a lot more of those haha.

[cold epoch]

Are there any worlds on quest with the new dynamics beta

[mossy python]

Dynamics Beta Hub

[cold epoch]

Apart from the official one?

[mossy python]

If there is they’re few and far between

[dim cloak]

I don't think people often "just hang out" on the beta

it's often for testing things and such

[mossy python]

Yeah

[unkempt egret]

Phys bones can only be seen and interacted with by people who are in the beta right?

[dim cloak]

so I doubt you'll find many, if any people just hanging out in random worlds.

[dim cloak]

correct

[unkempt egret]

Would it be possible to somehow backport a model, or add some sort of fallback, like using dynamic bones ontop of phys bones?

[inner kayak]

i converted the normal feather icon into an SVG to turn to mesh, so feel free to use or remake
tried to keep it optimized and clean looking, but mesh isn't my specialty

[dim cloak]

I assume you're meaning, you made a beta/AD avatar and want to be able to use it in live, but the physbones aren't backwards compatible.

[unkempt egret]

I realize that any such solution would probably suck performance wise

[dim cloak]

Just make another project with the current live SDK in it and upload a live version of the avatar.

[unkempt egret]

Yeah, I'll probably just publish two seperate avatars then. Thanks!

[dim cloak]

^ When AD are live Physbones will be the default and people will have the option to see both Dynamic Bones and Physbones should they opt into it. But nothing here is backwards compatible and likely never will be as the dev team is looking to phase out Dynamic Bones.

[unkempt egret]

Yeah I read something about them being phased out. Just got into VRChat, so I'm just familiarizing myself by reading docs

[dim cloak]

You've joined at a fantastic time. I would just slowly mess with stuff on the beta for new avatars and get them working how you like them and wait for it to fully come out and go from there. VRC hasn't ever been as interactive among player-to-player as it is now, really exciting for new and old creators alike.

[mortal plume]

modding the game is against the TOS, you should specify content creation if you're referring to avatar/world creation :p

you're fine

[dim cloak]

World creation is a ton of fun. Can be frustrating at times, but super rewarding when you figure things out and make what you were imagining. I definitely think VRChat is an odd evolution to games where, it's really not a game that the dev team is building, but a platform upon which the community can build whatever they want. Haven't really seen anything else like it.

It does, but I don't believe you can interact with people in worlds created by users the same way you can in boneworks. VRChat is quite a unique experience.

If they are just flying around then it is likely a modded client. I'm not sure if there are any easy ways/ways at all to really no clip in worlds.

Not sure haha, never been something that I was interested in doing so I haven't looked into it.

I've only been on the platform since November 2020, so I haven't actually experienced the "old days" that had the meme eras and hacker phases etc.

From the people I've talked to that were around in those times it has tamed down quite a lot and isn't as bad as it used to be. But a lot of people have phased into private lobbies and such which means that encountering users that are hacking often occurs a lot less since it's mostly just friends and friends of friends joining your lobbies, not malicious individuals that might have just made an account.

Coordinated events are definitely good ways of meeting people, especially if its at an event for something you enjoy. Makes it much more naturally to go up and talk to people about stuff. If anything it can be fun just hanging out and listening in on conversations as well.

[bright jungle]

If they're literally clipping through walls at speed, then yes that's a modified client. There's ways to fly and noclip without mods though, i.e via AV3, Udon, OVR Advanced Settings, etc

[unkempt egret]

Ok, sounds good. Might have to play around with something like that then (assuming that it's actually allowed to do it these other ways)

[bright jungle]

yup! the methods I mentioned are within TOS

[unkempt egret]

Awesome!

[stable mantle]

I can confirm material animations are not counted towards the material slot count. However, they do contribute to the file-size, so you still have to hit the file limit on Quest.

The SDK counts materials based on the # of slots on each mesh renderer. So if you have 6 slots total and swap materials in 3 of them, it's still 6 slots.

I configured a base for a friend and it has 4 meshes (2 skinned) and 5 slots, but 2 additional materials to swap. The SDK current only counted the 5 slots.

If you were getting material count issues something else was going on.

[bright jungle]

modifications to SteamVR are fine, but anything that modifies VRChat's installation or executable, at runtime or installation, is against TOS

[unkempt egret]

Cool! Thanks for the help <3

[bright jungle]

yw! c:

[unkempt egret]

Just realized I've probably spammed this channel with stuff not related to the beta. Sorry! I'll try and delete the stuff not related to beta, so mods don't have to <3

[bright jungle]

that'll kinda just make the convo hard to follow lol

[stable mantle]

@unkempt egret is correct that using a cube collider with a parent constraint triggers a glitch that lets you fly without modding. — It's like playing paddle ball with your avatar, only the paddle moves with the ball.

This is why there are no Quest flying avatars: Constraints and standard colliders are disabled. (And even in the beta, physbone colliders do not effect the root avatar like regular ones).

[bright jungle]

and/or make it look like someone got banned - If the convo were to continue though, then ye it should move to one of the generals

[stable mantle]

Yea just leave it. Conversations "segway". The other day we were ALL talking about Meta/Facebook, having branched off from beta talk about Quest's horrible handling of beta uninstallation.

It happens naturally.

[dim cloak]

Yeah I'm vaguely aware of how to do it using cube colliders, but I just meant that I wouldn't be able to specifically elaborate on how to do it since I haven't messed with it myself or looked into it much at all. I have some friends who have done things like that though.

[unkempt egret]

Alright, deleted some of the irrelevant messages. Will try to keep things in general next time if the conversation get's a bit derailed :)

[stable mantle]

I woulda left them all, but its ultimately up to you I suppose.

[unkempt egret]

Yeah I was a bit quick on the trigger ;)

[stable mantle]

Also: im hearing people talking about Avatar Dynamics worlds?

[dim cloak]

Yeah, not that I'm saying to talk about anything in beta chat, but the beta conversations have simmered down a lot compared to the first week, so the conversations are going to derail a bit more easily now haha.

[stable mantle]

Is there already a worlds SDK that supports interaction?

[bright jungle]

No, but that's planned

was shown in the devstream

[dim cloak]

It's planned, but unlikely to come out for a while to be honest.

[unkempt egret]

Damn, that sounds amazing

[stable mantle]

Then why are people popping in asking about dynamics worlds?

[dim cloak]

I believe they are wanting avatar dynamics on avatars to be smoothed out and working well, as well as the IK to be out of beta, before moving to worlds.

[dim cloak]

Because they want it xD

[bright jungle]

because they're asking to see if it's out/a thing, like you are lol

[cosmic knoll]

IK is amazing

[stable mantle]

I just meant people are asking like its already out. "Has anyone else made a dynamics world yet" vs "Are dynamics worlds a thing yet".

Phrasing throws me off.

[solemn nexus]

They'll probably roll that together with the updates that let you save local world data and other planned world features
having a way to save in game worlds without writing down codes is gonna be neato

[molten cobalt]

wolfy ended up following your tutorials to do the nose Boop and the head Pat controlling tail speed

[dim cloak]

I think they might mean worlds that have avatar dynamics compatible avatars? And just don't know how to properly ask it?

[dim cloak]

😄 Glad they helped out!!

[molten cobalt]

yeah that's probably it

[dim cloak]

Planning on doing the lightsaber tutorial probably as my next video or the one after that. People were also asking on a video showing the _Stretched parameter for physbones being used, so that'll likely be soon as well.

[molten cobalt]

yeah it was pretty helpful albeit I got stuck on the tail speed animation Clips as you didn't show how to make those so I ended up using parameter drivers with empty game Clips to accomplish it https://i.gyazo.com/ea7574ae8f42756ce7b24ef8433d7707.png

[dim cloak]

I did not think about explaining how to add a float value in an animation.

Or I can't remember if i explained that or not actually.

[molten cobalt]

there was no explanation as was just here's a clip that already exists that you don't explain how to make

[dim cloak]

Basically one of the animations drives the float I am using to multiply with my tailwag animation speed. I.e. Tailspeed (float) is set to .25 in my default state animation and is driven to an animation that sets it to 1 when being headpat.

But you have to add the float by going to "Add Property" --> "Animator" and then find your float and click the + symbol.

[molten cobalt]

when I tried to add the property there wasn't any float only listing stuff physically attached to the avatar

[dim cloak]

Floats (someone correct me if I'm wrong please) are the only parameter type that is animatable as far as I know, and they have to be added via the "Add Property" method.

Do you have your FX in your avatar's controller?

[molten cobalt]

I would have to go double-check

[dim cloak]

Ah

[molten cobalt]

but yeah that does sound like helpful info that somebody who's new to this stuff wouldn't know

[dim cloak]

Well if you toss that into your controller, then go through the "add property" steps I said above, you'll just have to find your float in the list of floats in the animator there.

[molten cobalt]

as I said I substituted using a parameter driver and empty clips which ended up working just fine

[molten cobalt]

good to know

[dim cloak]

Yeah to be honest empty clips are just as good of a way to do it.

Just wasn't how I did it, but I don't think either one is necessarily better or worse than the other.

Honestly, empty clips with a parameter driver is probably a faster way to do it haha

[molten cobalt]

good to know and out of curiosity does it help having folks actually try the tutorials

[dim cloak]

It does ^.^ I've met dozens of people in-game and on discord who have given me feedback on them and given suggestions or requests for new tutorials. That's actually why I made the tailwag video to begin with, because someone wanted to know how I did it on my avatar.

[warm cedar]

Eyyy, mr. shield

[dim cloak]

Hearing what people think needs to be improved and what works well is extremely helpful though. It can just be difficult making the videos as short as possible while also covering all of the necessary info. Most people don't want to watch a 30 minute video on making a tail wag faster (me included haha), so it can be a bit difficult on deciding what is essential info for the tutorial and what people should generally already know how to do.

[dim cloak]

I've gotten "shield guy" and "lightsaber guy" a lot haha

[warm cedar]

This is a warning for you wolfy, I will find you.

[dim cloak]

oh god

I'm gonna need a bigger shield

😛

[warm cedar]

Oh yeah you will.

Though my particles have collisions

[dim cloak]

Here's to hoping that they are actually able to get particles to have senders/receivers on them lol

unlikely, but I hope they can.

[warm cedar]

I'd love that, but my "Proto-Gun MK III" Is a mere shitpost

The amount of times I went "Hmm, I should add this to my avi" inside the editor was horrific, but then the performance system was just looking at me like
.-.

[stable mantle]

Once you give up on the PS2 level avatars that are the Quest <=Medium requirements, there's a whole new world, princess~

[dim cloak]

Yeah I am actually in the midst of really optimizing my hobkin since I have been and plan to be in it for the foreseeable future. Slowed down on avatar dynamics at the moment, but I'll likely be making some more cool stuff that are interactive on my avatar.

[warm cedar]

Eventually the quest 1 support will die oht

out*

[molten cobalt]

the triangle limits for the quest avatars have already been upgraded because of the Quest 2

[warm cedar]

No I'm just saying it as a fact

eventually that system is gunna be too old

[dim cloak]

I hope with cambria coming out, quest 1 support kind of dies out and we get upgraded/updated limits to fit more towards quest 2 and cambria.

[warm cedar]

Sound? Constraints?

[molten cobalt]

constraints I could see but sound no

[warm cedar]

Still don't get it. Sound is too unperformant but physics on bones isn't

[timber jewel]

Would be nice

[dim cloak]

I have a bit of hesitancy for constraints only because I've seen the performance impact they can have lol

They would need a hard card.

Sound should be on quest now though.

[timber jewel]

Are Phys Bones also a thing on Quest 1?

[molten cobalt]

yes

[warm cedar]

yes

That's why I'm pissed off

[timber jewel]

That poor snapdragon

[molten cobalt]

at this point there's no such thing as a quest 2 exclusive feature on VRC

[stable mantle]

I mean they have but they're still conservative. In theory if Quest 1 support dropped completely those numbers would go up.

SDK3 really needs the concept of props and interchangeable model components.

[warm cedar]

THIS

THIS

[timber jewel]

I mean we already have to basically manage 4 versions of our Avatar: PC, PC Fallback, Quest, Quest Fallback. I really don't want more versions which I have to work on

[dim cloak]

I highly doubt we will see a props system in vrc lol

[stable mantle]

Fun fact: The Quest 2 is severely under-clocked. Yay heat and power. That poor battery wouldn't stand a chance.

[warm cedar]

I was more thinking a dynamic performance rank

e.g blocks/unblocks avi on the fly

[bright jungle]

snapdragon's about to go snap

[timber jewel]

Isn't it already only at like 1 - 2h?

[dim cloak]

Ah i have been a support of having a "Actual" and "Overall" performance rating on avatars for a while now.

[warm cedar]

Canny iy

Just make 60 cannies

post it everywhere

we need it

[dim cloak]

Actual being what you currently have toggled on/visible on the avatar and overall being well... overall.

[molten cobalt]

the question is with the CPU overhead of that eat too much into the performance

[stable mantle]

I just meant a system of defining a mesh as "optional" or "interchangeable".

I.E. "optional" props could be hidden based on performance and safety, whereas "interchangeable" meshes would be mutually exclusive and base the mesh count on the highest poly amongst them.

[dim cloak]

Not at all, just have your client push out an update to everyone elses when you change something on the avatar, no need for constant checks.

[warm cedar]

Networking 101

[dim cloak]

Ah I see what you mean

[timber jewel]

Tbh if I want props I can just put them on my Avatar

[warm cedar]

Not all of us are blender gurus

[stable mantle]

Exactly. Imagine it getting 15 minutes (if it doesn't die of overheating first) at full power.

This is also why VRChat has issues in my experience. The GPU is fine, usage % wise. It's the CPU that gets bottlenecked and brings everything down with it.

[molten cobalt]

just shove the object under the bone in unity

[stable mantle]

You can have multiple meshes in Unity. You just get dinged for the material slots and mesh counts.

[timber jewel]

I have played another VR social game that had a prop system and everywehre it was just full with random crap. I don't really think VRC needs that

[warm cedar]

That's what I do now. And it is a pain in my ass

[molten cobalt]

yep because it's more draw calls

[dim cloak]

There a lot of problems with having a prop system, as much as it would be cool to have.

[warm cedar]

I have 0-1 props active 90% of the time

[timber jewel]

I'm also not I just do that in Blender xD

[stable mantle]

I didn't mean props as in unique prop system. I meant props as in the concept of "this mesh on the avatar is optional and can be omitted for performance based reasons".

[warm cedar]

Hard limit it. Performance for objects is important

[stable mantle]

As it stands, a lot of avatar features are props. Swords, guns, staffs, hoodies, clothes, etc.

[dim cloak]

I do agree that having a tag system for objects on an avatar to be filtered out as "props" could be beneficial.

[timber jewel]

Ahhh

[dim cloak]

At the same time though... just optimize the damn props LOL

atlasing stuff together and reducing polygon count is not that hard.

[mossy python]

^

[stable mantle]

Having the ability to define both "optional" and "mutually exclusive interchangeable" objects on our avatars could mean an Avatar could have 2 performance rankings: one with the highest possible options, and one with "base" options.

[mossy python]

Also merge your prop meshes to the main model and scale them with bones for most optimal performance

[stable mantle]

This is worse on performance if its part of the same mesh.

The issue Im talking about would only be applicable to separated meshes, since they're unique gameobjects.

[warm cedar]

Every time I did this in blende the avatar breaks in unity

[mossy python]

Let me guess

It turned super thin?

[warm cedar]

Nah just takes on a horrible pose

[dim cloak]

Reducing material count and polygons is not worse on performance? You can use the same material on multiple meshes as well.

Again, atlasing.

[mossy python]

Reconfigure the humanoid rig, then go through every bone and revert the component values on the transform components

[stable mantle]

The "put everything in one mesh and scale the bone/blendshape" trick is a hack way of doing things, and a workaround for Mesh Counts. It is actually worse on performance then just toggling a separate gameobject, from what Im told.

[stable mantle]

There's an if in that statement.

[mossy python]

Make sure if you initially exported through blender, you export through blender again. If you exported through CATS, export through CATS again

[mortal plume]

using the same material doesn't really help for material slot count. it's still multiple slots. you're just potentially saving VRAM from not having as many textures

[dim cloak]

You can GPU instance them depending on the shader you use, meaning it reduces however many objects into a single draw call and it does save on vram which can be very beneficial in VR.

[loud fjord]

do you guys think this checks out? this is based on my own research

[stable mantle]

Like I fully agree with you on reducing poly count, @dim cloak, but atlasing textures, in terms of Avatar Performance, does nothing unless you also merge meshes.

The SDK counts the material slots, not the number of materials packaged nor the number of textures.

I could have 62 textures and 62 materials, or 1 atlased texture and 1 material, but if there's 62 material slots its gonna count 62 either way.

[dim cloak]

It may not statistically look better on paper for VRCs performance rankings, but it actually runs better regardless.

[mossy python]

This is true

[dim cloak]

Again, gpu instancing.

[stable mantle]

We were talking about the performance ranking system not actual performance.

[mossy python]

I use a single material for an entire world and it helped performance dramatically, even though the world consisted of many game objects with their own independent material slots

[dim cloak]

right but i don't care about the performance rankings, those are poorly put together as it is. I'm talking about actual performance.

[dim cloak]

My point exactly.

[warm cedar]

Shield man is spitting fax

[stable mantle]

But that's what we were talking about with props and clothe options for avatars. A way for the ranking system to better account for props and interchangeable clothes that allows creators to optimize better.

[molten cobalt]

world's can also do static batching so that helps

[warm cedar]

Save me one, my old fax broke

[dim cloak]

You can have 100 material slots that use the same material because of atlasing. But if it's instanced then those 100 material slots are rendered as ONE draw call which is all I actually care about.

[stable mantle]

In these terms though, yeah, instance materials if you can. Atlas when appropriate.

[mossy python]

VRC really needs to overhaul their performance rankings to be more… accurate?

[warm cedar]

So basically, always ALWAYS Instance them

[dim cloak]

I honestly don't know if there will ever be a really good way of accomplishing this.

[mossy python]

Like I get it’s more approachable for novice creators but still

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-discussion message

I don't see a problem with this setup. The ranking system could split optionals from the base ranking, and take the highest poly count of interchangeables.

[proud vault]

The wording on the gravity one is a bit confusing, looks like its multiplied by 100, not rounded up 2 places

[loud fjord]

Ok I can reword it

[stable mantle]

It's mainly there to stop bad creator practices, but instead creators just google how to get around those and end up making worse avatars (e.g. blendshape props).

[dim cloak]

Right. I have like 30 or so fish in my world floating around in an aquarium. They were 15 unique fish with different materials, (with instancing making the additional 15 get drawn with their duplicates). I went and atlased all of the textures together into one Albedo map and one Normal map so that all 15 fish fit onto one texture/material. This brought the 30 fish from 15 draw calls to 1. That is essentially what you can do with avatars as well.

[mossy python]

Cool concept on paper but there’s no way people wouldn’t abuse that

[stable mantle]

Like?

[proud vault]

I don't have a suggestion for this, but using a "-" for a range always looks odd when negative numbers are involved.

[stable mantle]

People are already abusing the current system but worse.

[mossy python]

They mark a model as interchangeable for better performance and just don’t toggle it on or off

[stable mantle]

The whole point is that VRChat (client) would toggle it on or off based on performance rankings.

[dim cloak]

Right but something needs to be tagging objects as interchangable.

Which is going to be the creator.

[mossy python]

Yeah

[stable mantle]

Do I really need to flesh out every idea?

[dim cloak]

You do, because these things aren't as simply fixed as you would think.

[mossy python]

Yes because as is that can be abused lol

[dim cloak]

People will come up with 1000s of ways to abuse them lol.

[mossy python]

I do it all the time for the Quest SDK

[stable mantle]

This is the 3rd time Ive proposed an idea tbh that people are quick to find holes in that have easy solutions.

[dim cloak]

That's often why these systems don't get changed so easily.

[mossy python]

Looking at my avatar with 160 mats and only 2 slots so it’s still medium

[dim cloak]

lol

[mossy python]

Like the optional idea for meshes sounds like a solid idea

The interchangeable one though? That sounds mega abusable

[dim cloak]

To be honest it won't make much of a difference for me at the end of the day lol.. I sit with pretty high safety settings purely because people do abuse the performance ranking system and I don't care to load blow-joe's e-boy across the room with 900k poly chains and never actually talk to him. I just show people's avatars as I interact with them.

[molten cobalt]

yeah I also tend to operate with pretty strict safety settings

[stable mantle]

Ok then.

1. SDK throws a non-uploadable error if there is no "unmarked" mesh. — Prevents marking the whole avatar as "optional".

2. Interchangeable (non-optional, mutually-exclusive) meshes will take the highest poly count combined with "base" meshes. — E.G. if the avatar + the coat is 12K tris, but the same avatar + the robe is 42k tris, the avatar is ranked at 42k tris.

3. VRC would base whether optionals display based on the combined performance ranking. — E.G. without optionals, little Timmy's avi is ranked "medium" and shows, but Sarah has a max performance rank of "poor", and the "combined" ranking of little Timmy's avi is "Very Poor", therefor the props do not show.

Note: these things are suggested with Quest content creation in mind. The ranking system is almost laughable on PC as there is really very little difference between & .

As it stands, to get things working "within ranking", a lot of creators use hacky techniques that actual hurt performance, not help, to the point it seems to have become standard.

[mossy python]

So what I’m hearing with interchangeable is that the poly count is supposedly dynamic and the avatar switches performance ranking based on what meshes are currently active?

[stable mantle]

More like it takes the highest of the options, allowing for the full set of interchangeables.

[dim cloak]

I'll be honest though poly count is not a good way to determine these things.

[mossy python]

How is it supposed to gauge that

[dim cloak]

Like that coat could have 1000 materials on it, just cause.

That's bad performance, but it falls within the "okay" limits so it gets shows.

[stable mantle]

I mean it was implied that itd rank everything.

[dim cloak]

Ah

[stable mantle]

Poly was an example.

[mossy python]

I could, for example, have a hat and a coat on a model. Set them both as interchangeable so it only uses the higher of the two, right?

[stable mantle]

E.G. = Example Given

[mossy python]

What’s stopping me from using an animation to toggle both at once and have it completely ignore the stats of the other?

[stable mantle]

Interchangeables would be mutually exclusive, so IDK why youd have a hat without the coat.

[dreamy barn]

hm, there's some feedback I wanna give as a feature request to the SDK for open beta, but should that be in Open Beta or Feature Requests on the feedback page?

[dim cloak]

Yeah I could see that as being viable, I don't think anyone here is not wanting a better solution to the avatar ranking system, but stuff like that needs to be ripped apart and have all of the flaws found because it's extremely important.

[bright jungle]

open beta

[dreamy barn]

alright, noted thanks 🙂

[stable mantle]

Idea is that interchangeables would be enforced to only show one or the other by the client. If you tried toggling both only the first would show.

[mossy python]

That could really fuck up animation layers though

[stable mantle]

SDK could in theory also comb animations and check for potential overlap, if you wanted the SDK to actually be nuanced.

[stable mantle]

How?

[mossy python]

Creators would need to spend a lot of time making sure parameters are driven off

[dim cloak]

You'd be desyncing players animations through a performance system.

[mossy python]

Exactly

[dim cloak]

Which is really not good.

[stable mantle]

If all its affecting is the GameObject's isActive state, does that matter?

You can still animate inactive objects; they're just not rendered.

[mossy python]

Right, but if you had a hat toggle on, and a coat toggle on, it wouldn’t know which one to render

Not only that, users may just think the toggles in the expression menu are broken

[stable mantle]

No it just wouldnt render the coat. Because you toggled it separate.

[dim cloak]

If you have the hat and coat toggled on, but hat is higher poly, so it is the only thing shown. Now you toggle hat off, but joe still has his coat on and it can be shown now. What's running that animation now since it's already been ran and the parameter is already in the on state?

[stable mantle]

Okay i see the breakdown.

[dim cloak]

I like your idea

[stable mantle]

You misunderstood. I used a relative statement.

the higher poly of all interchangeables. If a hat is meant to be worn with the coat, it'd be a prop, not an interchangeable.

Interchangeables would be "only one at a time",
Optionals would be "any at all times".

[mossy python]

Okay but what if the user wanted to wear the hat but not the coat, or wear the coat but not the hat, or wear both at once

This whole system completely eliminates that as a possibility

[dim cloak]

You end up making a relatively simple system overly complex for next to no gain is the problem I see with this system.

[mossy python]

Again the system is great on paper, but there are so many complexities you have to think about

[dim cloak]

Like yes, maybe it works a bit better after issues are fleshed out, but at what added complexity?

People have a hard to making a toggle as it is most of the time.

[stable mantle]

1. The coat could be interchangeable, if other clothes are provided, or if the avatar maker wants the coat included in the base avatar rank.

2. The coat could be optional, and thus not displayed if it falls outside a user's performance ranking.

Like yall overthinking it.

[mossy python]

This

[bright jungle]

this sounds like a topic for another channel, by the way lol

[dim cloak]

Yeah it really is lol

[stable mantle]

Fair.

Should we move to #feature-requests orrrrr?

[molten cobalt]

yes

[mossy python]

I’m willing to just end the convo here lol

[stable mantle]

I was more so asking if we wanted to continue the convo

[mossy python]

Nice idea, but makes overly complicated issues

That’s my two cents and I’m ending it there personally

[dim cloak]

I'm probably done discussing it lol. I'm relatively indifferent to the system change at the moment since I roll with strict settings and will continue to do so.

[stable mantle]

Eh, i get the impression youre missing something in what I said, because your coat/hat problem wouldnt even be a problem the way I was attempting to describe it. But I imagine it was a failure on my part to communicate clearly.

So it's probably best I leave it be unless I want to make my entire afternoon "lets make a flowchart with coats and hats" lmao

I do not want to spend my evening making a flowchart

[molten cobalt]

yeah I'd say let's just end it here

[mossy python]

I wanna spend my evening playing the new Kirby game lol

[dim cloak]

xD

[stable mantle]

Back to the beta...

Do you think they might add more OSC features down the road for us to try?

I like the idea of OSC FBT — Oculus has demonstrated this as a thing, in general, and it'd be cool to use, say, ARKit for FBT without having to customize and rig the avatar for it.

[stable wagon]

as for OSC. dont know and wrong group to talk about this.

[molten cobalt]

yeah open Sound control is not the current open beta

[stable mantle]

I was thinking upcoming betas.

[stable wagon]

hmm?

[stable mantle]

Cause I know there's an IK beta and some overlap between driving physbones with OSC. So it seemed all related in a speculative question.

The avatar channels seem more for... help related topics, not discussion on potential features or improvements, but the idea is related to existing betas, rather than a completely new feature, so it felt appropriate to say that here.

Just trying to be conversational about the beta. Sorry if that's not appropriate.

Filing a canny for every little idea that pops into my sweet little goat head, beta or otherwise, seems inappropriate, so sometimes I like to chat it out with people. In this case, it felt appropriate to talk about it here, rather than #feature-requests or #avatars-osc. (The earlier conversation was just a branching conversation path that unfortunately snowballed.)

[restive tapir]

Im struggling on how to create a proper toggle for the contant interaction, does someone has a good exaple, or can share one? My sometimes desync or bugs

[drowsy reef]

is there a hack rn that auto send fr to random people. i keep having people add me without me sending out a friend request?

[stable mantle]

I would change your password. That doesn't sound like a mod that sounds like your account is logged in elsewhere or on the web.

Also enable 2FA.

[stable mantle]

Can you elaborate? Are you trying to:

1. Have something "toggle" when contact is received? (Push on/Push off)
2. Be able to toggle a contact itself? (On = Contact, Off = No contact)
3. Operate a toggle based on contact? (Contact = On, No contact = Off)

[dim cloak]

Bit of a delayed response but here's a tutorial I made for network syncing contacts. Also have some other tutorials explaining different things about avatar dynamics on my channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raQRXfH_GZE

A couple others such as Moon and Akalink have made tutorials as well.

[dim cloak]

As far as I recall, OSC is not in beta but on live. There is a VRChat OSC server for discussion about things related to OSC.

[stable mantle]

OSC itself is a live feature yes, but I was talking more in regards to features related to both ongoing betas.

It's kinda like VRC synced parameters are live, but PhysBone parameters are not.

They're both parameters. But one is tied to something still "in the works". — But I'll admit I wasn't quite sure where to posit that.

[warm cedar]

Still proud of myself I got that working without any tutorial

Even made it better by making the contacts just for my use to "local", still works perfectly fine, but decreases network clog (I think)

[stable wave]

It would make my finger-gun way easier to setup lol
Right now I'm trying to make collision detection with a dynamic bone, by moving the component it's attached to with a collider, but it's extremely convoluted and I don't even know if it can work

[dim cloak]

You asked about using OSC for FBT. That is a question pertaining to OSC, not beta.

[dim cloak]

Yeah! Figuring this stuff out without tutorials is always good! Someone has to do it anyways xD just happy to help those that might need it

[dim cloak]

Yeah I did the same for some of my things like my grabbing and such for props. All network synced, but runs locally on my computer and is then pushed out to everyone so we all see the same thing.

[warm cedar]

See we be the smartiest people of the smartiest beta B)))B)

[stable mantle]

Not what I asked no, but close. But ima probably just go quiet since it seems I can't say anything right here today. :|

[dim cloak]

Hmm that sounds interesting to be honest. I'm a bit reserved in trying to push the limits too much because we just don't know what all they plan on adding quite yet, but people are coming up with a ton of really cool ideas and things.

[dim cloak]

Haha I wish I was met a ton of extremely smart people in the open beta that I wish I had an ounce of their knowledge in unity and surrounding systems.

[warm cedar]

Sometimes patting yourself on the back is deserved wolfy, do it sometimes

It's a great help when you feel de-motivated

[dim cloak]

Ah who has time to pat yourself on the back when you could be learning instead! haha

[warm cedar]

I mean I was on the verge of going clinnically insane with the gun, so I was practically praying pats on my back

[dim cloak]

It's more motivating to me to see all of the cool things people come up with and it helps me come up with new things to make and try out ^.^

[warm cedar]

I used to think that too

Before the GUN*

*I was already getting tired of animation de-syncs at this point

[dim cloak]

Again, you asked an OSC related question in the open beta chat when OSC is live. The open beta chat is supposed to be focused around avatar dynamics i.e. physbones, contacts, etc.

The OSC discord is a much better place to ask your question because you'll be able to ask people who have been very actively creating new features with OSC. This channel is filled with people working on or asking questions about primarily contacts and physbones, so you're not going to find much help here with OSC.

[dim cloak]

Could use anystate to prevent desyncing haha

or intentionally desync people so that you can resync them

[warm cedar]

Nah I just kinda did this:

IF it works 90% on Pc, 75% on quest, and 100% Locally, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH!
Hits the 'build and publish' button

[dim cloak]

If it works, it works haha.

[warm cedar]

Look I'm an IT student

I live by that rule.

[dim cloak]

LOL understandable xD

I am too much of a perfectionist, I end up going back and polishing things as much as I can.

[warm cedar]

been doing this too now

[restive tapir]

Im trying to click it, and the objetlct turns on, and click it again and the object turns off

[mossy python]

Did the same thing for the HP values on my PvP avatar. The receivers play a state in the FX layer that drive the HP value locally, which is then pushed to all other users. That way the HP value never desyncs

[stable wave]

Mind if I ask you a thing? If it's not too long to explain, with your lightsabre, how did you make the particles spawn on the point of impact?

[stable mantle]

I wasn't spamming bot

bleugh

What does the bot look for because I tried posting highly formatted text and the bot said it was spam

[stable mantle]

https://gist.github.com/MisutaaAsriel/4390d36f648a246cd4401b843ccb61db

Because the bot hates formatting, I threw it there.

If anyone has a better idea though please, chime in.

(Or if, ya-know, I missed something by mistake from fighting the bot.)

This is the basic layout I used for the staples button avatar, but I could've forgotten something between now and then.

[dim cloak]

Yeah it is definitely the most consistent way to do it and it works really well. There's at least one drawback that can be a bit weird, but all things considered it works really well doing it this way.

[dim cloak]

I'm planning on making a tutorial explaining it all, but tldr is that Yash suggested that I use a proximity and contact receiver on the lightsaber to slide a gameobject (containing the particles and sounds) up and down the lightsaber kind of how he does the sound on his otamatone.

The activation of the particles and sounds comes from the contact receiver directly on the lightsaber and the location is determined by the proximity receiver.

[stable wave]

Kinda understood, I'm gonna wait for the tutorial, thanks 😄

[dim cloak]

No worries! I find it a lot easier to verbally explain/show people how to do things than I can typing it out. That and it's a bit of a lengthy explanation for anyone that's not really familiar with contacts as there can be some confusing parts to making the system work properly. But I'll be sure to explain everything that I can so that the system is applicable for other sword-like weapons, not just lightsabers.

[heavy lark]

Do any one now how to get of the bata

[upper mountain]

#open-beta-announcements

[bright jungle]

See the top of #open-beta-info c:

[upper mountain]

That too.

[heavy lark]

Okay thanks

[warm cedar]

Still no beta update

the time's running out for the prediction xD

[fallow isle]

Hey I’m in beta does anyone wanna play a actual game like prison escape or something

[outer python]

id say for that switch to live

[mossy python]

Time to make the most dastardly dynamics avatar yet

[warm cedar]

Dastardly, so you're just going to create an e-girl with 400 mats, and 2000 physbone colission checks?

that sounds dastardly

[mossy python]

No no, it will be performant

However it is a character that many are very suspicious of lol

[warm cedar]

Alright, so not that kind of dastardly

[warm cedar]

I in the meantime have added my 20th sound source to my avi

[mossy python]

Wish I could add that for something I just added to my avatar, alas Questie moment

[warm cedar]

Congrats to me for being very poor, like very very poor in the eyes of the sdk

[warm cedar]

Y'all get your time to shine someday

[mossy python]

I mean hey my go to is 80k polys so

[warm cedar]

or well, maybe not

[dim cloak]

It's totally not cheating if you put all of your sounds into one clip and just scrub through one animation for various sounds is it? 😛

[mossy python]

God I love workarounds

[dim cloak]

xD

[warm cedar]

😬

[dim cloak]

This is why I would like a reworked performance rating system that makes sense haha

[warm cedar]

I couldn't get that stuff to work properly

[warm cedar]

that's for next time

Don't wanna sound bad

but you're looking at a quest sdk,

I posted the PC sdk

[mossy python]

Ah I'll post my PC stats then

[dim cloak]

lol

[warm cedar]

you were bound to be very poor if you wanted to be creative x,D

[mossy python]

I thought we were just going for preferred platform

[dim cloak]

not entirely true 😮

[warm cedar]

Well yes, the wizards of Blender can do what they want

[dim cloak]

lmao

[warm cedar]

just sad vrchat doesn't link to any helpful videos, rather they go "Just do X"

[mossy python]

I made an incredible Quest avatar that tons of people have asked to clone that’s Medium

Here's the PC stats

[warm cedar]

By the way, it's saturday here already so the person who said "friday update" was wrong for europe XD

[dim cloak]

To be fair they are just creating a platform for people to socialize on and have given us the ability to do our own stuff. Creating assets for video games isn't something that has been normal for your random passerby for quite some time.

And even now it's kind of odd.

[warm cedar]

I do want to know what bugs they fixed this time

[warm cedar]

Yes, but they really shouldn't be pushing the creation of avatars if it either costs you hundreds, or takes up all your free time just to learn the basics of the tools

I'm lucky I understand Unity, I can't do anything outside of it lol

[mossy python]

I really wish Quest had audio sources for stuff like this

[dim cloak]

I think that's the idea behind public worlds with free avatars, or creators who are paid to do these kinds of things.

If you want a generic, whatever kind of avatar, it's probably free. If you want customized to your likings avatar, then it'll cost a bit of either money or time.

[warm cedar]

Learning blender doesn't take a bit of time, it's like selling your soul to a complete beginner hehe

meh I'll figure it out someday, at worst I'll pay

[dim cloak]

There really is a route for everyone, it's just it can be a bit convoluted when someone wants to hop out of the strictly "consumer" space and wants to move into the "creator" space.

[mossy python]

I started blender with modding Pokemon Sword and Shield lol

Then half a year later I started VRC and got hooked on creating 3D assets

[warm cedar]

Be like me:
Completely ignore quest users and add audio for events, making pvp very unfair because only pc users will hear actual hits

[dim cloak]

It definitely takes time, but if you can pick things up from previous experience/understanding of video games and how they work, then it's not too bad. Just start simple and go from there.

[mossy python]

I am the Quest user tho 😔

[shrewd estuary]

trollinh

[warm cedar]

I could add particle eff-

hmm... material slot

[shrewd estuary]

le lag

[warm cedar]

Oh, and impact prop-

Material slot...

[mossy python]

Oh my PvP avatar is Very Poor on Quest

[warm cedar]

Ah! A bone with a... Parent constraint...

[mossy python]

And Poor on PC lol

[shrewd estuary]

yummy material slot

yummy yummy in my tummy material slot mmm mm

ayo you got any more of them m a t e r i a l s l o t s

[warm cedar]

Biggest avi I had, had around 18 mat slots on pc, and 14 on quest

all deactivated 90% of the time

[mossy python]

Hah

Try 24 mat slots because of Particles

l o l

[shrewd estuary]

simply game

[warm cedar]

Yeah I was never a fan of mobile games anyway

[mossy python]

Do note that most of my avatars are not this horrendously optimized

And I plan on Elfilin being Medium on Quest

[warm cedar]

Look at me, I'm one of the only people to make a public cherub that is medium, and either:

• Didn't modify the sdk to get the stupid shader to work
• Didn't not decimate it and kept it at 32k polys

I've seen a quest user with a working cherub shader, that just screams modified sdk

[shrewd estuary]

modify deez nu

[warm cedar]

(Well custom shaders of any kind, really|)

[mossy python]

See one of my coolest optimized Quest avatars has transparency

Not because it uses a modded SDK

But because it uses an OLD SDK that still supports it lol

[shrewd estuary]

ancient

[mossy python]

It was my first SDK and I still use it sometimes

From January 2021

[warm cedar]

You found a pretty deep loophole

congrats

[mossy python]

Only downside

Can't add PhysBones to avatars with transparency

[raw forge]

Yayy lets make quest even worse

[cursive bridge]

You can't do pvp impact blendshape?

Just have a big theatrical gore explosion super tiny inside you and then it flares out when you get spattered.

You could ALMOST get okay versions of 2D anime sfx/background effects popping out of you that way. One blendshape to make it pop out, another going on and off really fast to make it wiggle/vibrate for impact a little while popped out. Then it goes away again.

If they were weight painted to an animatable transform you could spin it out and then back in again. idk

OBVIOUSLY parent constraints and particle effects would be instant and easy and fantastic-looking, versus something hacky like this, but it would do certain things well.

[pseudo spade]

how do i switch from beta to live

its not working and everytime i uninstall it it just stops and says not installed

[restive tapir]

Worked very well! The only thing is that for each finger if i do it slowly it re-triggers

[stable mantle]

I think this is just an issue in general with the precision of PhysBones. Your fingers naturally "wobble", so if they're near the edge of contact they'll technically enter twice.

[stable mantle]

Quest Stand-alone or Steam?

[mossy python]

Does anyone have a performance chart of phys bones

[quaint geode]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system

[humble pulsar]

Was kinda expecting a new open beta today, guess I was wrong about that lol

I say this since we usually get one on Fridays lately

[near grove]

I uninstalled VrChat to go back to live version and now VrChat won’t download

[mossy python]

You get no context

[near grove]

This beta is amazing

[still plover]

i cant get out of beta can anyone help?

[near grove]

Delete then re download

[arctic flare]

you can download the beta, copy the vrchat folder to somewhere else and then switch back to the old version to have both ready without to constantly switch between them in steam

[near grove]

How the hell do I do that on the oculus

[arctic flare]

oh, sorry 😄

no friggin idea

[near grove]

It’s all good no worries thank you for the help

[shrewd heron]

Any news on how the open beta is doing on quest.

[warm cedar]

I am immune to no context, Love the video

[mortal surge]

Well? I'd imagine. I mean the response seems to be great. How exactly do you mean?

If you mean how close to release, who knows. "When it's done" and all that hubbub.

[warm cedar]

Maybe performance?

Quest users are doing pretty well performance-wise I'd say

(I've heard this, I don't own a quest.)

[mortal surge]

Perhaps. I've heard it too.

However some seem to be jumping to the conclusion that it'll solve all the problems with the e-boy/girl type avatars with all the dynamic bones tanking performance.

I've seen some that, even on physbones, would still go over, let alone any of the other issues they have (material slots, skinned meshes, triangle count, etc.)

same boat as you though, no first hand experience with them, as I don't have a Quest.

[warm cedar]

This is untrue

I've been intentionally lagged by physbones

No matter how optimised you make physics, it's still physics

[mortal surge]

Oh I know. That's what I'm saying, it's better but it wont magically make it all great.

[warm cedar]

It would not surprise me if they are going to add a HARD limit for quest physbones

[mortal surge]

I could see it, honestly.

[warm cedar]

I wish they do it, making a quest crasher would only take 20 minute tops if they don't

[mortal surge]

128 or bust. (I haven't seen the actual limit yet that's in it... haven't been in the beta for a moment. lol)

[warm cedar]

Well the bones itself are fine

[mortal surge]

Last I say, I saw 128 transforms.

[warm cedar]

but the collision checks

they need a limit

HARD capped, not soft capped

[mortal surge]

So long as I get to know what it is.

But so far, nothing but shader usage and package size has a hard cap so far.

Unless there's one to stop 8K textures or something, I'm not insane so I've never checked.

[warm cedar]

All what I care about is hoping for constraints on quest someday

[mortal surge]

1, take it or leave it.

[near grove]

What’s that?

Also any idea of a release date to make the beta public?

[warm cedar]

Hot take on the patrick meme

[shrewd heron]

Actually yeah when it’s close to release

[dim cloak]

This is why I refuse to reduce how strict my safety settings are. Bad avatar creators will still be bad avatar creators, even if you give them things that run better.. They'll just push that until it runs poorly too.

[dim cloak]

I've used 8k textures on avatars before. I don't think/know if there's a way to go above 8k texture in unity, but 8k do definitely work in game.

Mind you it was on a hobkin, so I had like 2 8k textures (for the body and mask) and then a 2k texture for the eyes lol. Not some eboy with 50 different 8k textures.

[signal condor]

there is not a way to go above 8k in unity

[dim cloak]

Didn't think so, but wasn't sure.

[signal condor]

and yeah, 8k textures arent TOO bad, but i still convert to 4k or 2k for pc

and then usually 2k or 1k for quest

[dim cloak]

Yeah this is why I was using 8k haha

[signal condor]

YES. quest is usually running around 15 fps in most vrc things, which is pretty good since vrc doesnt even use all of the quests capabilities, and vrc is a tanky game nonetheless

[signal condor]

goddamn!

[dim cloak]

But i normally use 4k now instead.

[signal condor]

the diff in performance is crazy

[dim cloak]

Hobkins are so small that only other smaller avatars could notice details like that, and even then it's not really worth it.

I'm pretty happy with sitting at 4k though.

[signal condor]

i dont go above 4k for any avatar anymore cuz its kinda pointless

most headsets cant even see at 4k

so ur not getting the full detail anyways

[dim cloak]

I mean the quality is noticeable, but it's so small and people don't often pay attention to that, so I don't bother.

At least in the Index I can see the quality difference, but like you said, a lot of headsets can't see the detail so it's pointless.

[signal condor]

its noticeable, but not like WOW thats crazy detailed

[dim cloak]

^ yeah

Still texture in 8k regardless though

[signal condor]

well at that point ur taking performance hits for no reason

8k textures take a lot of cpu to render

[dim cloak]

My cpu is capable of texturing it at 8k so i go with it and then scale it down as needed haha

[signal condor]

if you have a nutty cpu ur fine, but even then, NO headset can see 8k as of now apart from some experimental stuff

[dim cloak]

mostly gpu actually, but yeah.

[signal condor]

i just dont see much point in anything above 4k

at least for now

[dim cloak]

👍 Everyone is entitled to their opinions haha

[signal condor]

yeah 👍

cuz like

in terms of hardware, and what we see even, there isnt much point to anything above 4k for me

[dim cloak]

Varies person to person

[harsh bay]

I truly hope we get avatar audio support for the Quest, with this future update.
If not, I’m still really pleased for how fun, and well this new SDK system is going.

[timber jewel]

sad that we got no new beta yesterday

[warm cedar]

Your prediction was invalid

[dim cloak]

maybe it means a live release is soon 😛

[warm cedar]

NO

PLEASE

I still have 3 avatars to finish!!

Luckely it's a week-end, and they don't work on it in the weekend

[dim cloak]

Ha, that's what you think!

gets released today lmao

Hope it is soon though. Things seem to be relatively smooth now.

[bright jungle]

there's still lots of stuff on the canny

I'd especially want to see ints and bools supported for contacts, having to use floats gets r e a l l y wasteful on bits, real quick

[timber jewel]

yup

[warm cedar]

Do updates even release in week-ends?

[timber jewel]

nope

[warm cedar]

Thank god I'm saved

[timber jewel]

they don't work on weekends

[dim cloak]

lots of stuff on the canny, but AD is still functional. They can just iterate these things on top of it pretty easily.

[plucky owl]

will the SDK Control panel look different, or at least that pop up that appears when you load the avatar SDK

like it's out of date

[timber jewel]

that one?

That hasn't been updated since 2019 xD

[plucky owl]

Like

It's 2022

Either it should go or be updated at least

[shadow chasm]

this is getting really fun, but i really need to find a way to do this with better optimizations...

[stable mantle]

In isolated testing I had no issues with medium-ranked physics on my avi in a somewhat complex-designed (yet optimized) world on a Quest 2. It does seem performant in a way standard Unity physics are not. (Good god that pool table... [shudder].)

[warm cedar]

That shudder should have been a "stutter" as to encapsulate the lag on quest lol

missed opportunity

[stable mantle]

Is your Quest "Developer Unlocked" to sideload?

[stable mantle]

No because the lag makes me shudder... and want to vom.

[warm cedar]

ThEn GeT a Pc LoLololoL

xD

[stable mantle]

Im wondering if PhysBones is using some kind of compute shader TBH. I came across them when looking for GPU physics solutions in Unity; Apparently you can write shader "programs" for physics and other computations. Seeing as default Unity physics only do GPU on PC & iOS, and Quest is Android, the surprising performance makes me think it's a custom GPU solution.

[mossy python]

Mf didn’t upload an avatar he uploaded a whole ass animal

[warm cedar]

I have to resist the urge to tranquilize just by looking at the image...

[stable mantle]

It looks so... soft.

[warm cedar]

Don't touch it or I will tranquilize you too

[mossy python]

I usually just add fur normal maps to my avatars instead of doing… that lol

[warm cedar]

I usually don't do any of that

[mossy python]

Before

After

[wheat pelican]

Fluffy

[stable mantle]

This is funny because I am actually tempted to try making a HQ fur texture for my avi if that is what they look like.

[mossy python]

Might, get the tranquilizer

[stable mantle]

You wouldn't tranquilize a friendly little goat, would you?

[mortal plume]

4K is plenty fine for a fur texture if your UVs are dense enough

never use 8k lol

[warm cedar]

No, I will vaporize you with the "proto" feature.

Just takes some time to overcharge the gun

give it 3-8 work days

[mossy python]

Man my first instinct was that this was a feature designed specifically to dissolve annoying Protogens but then I realized I’m a degenerate and that’s definitely not the case

[warm cedar]

It's partially right

[mossy python]

Neato

[warm cedar]

the storyline and roleplay the avatar was build for has the backstory, basically some heated argument with a protogen, stole some blueprints and tada

It's called the "Proto-Gun MK. III"

[mossy python]

You’ve become the very thing you sought to destroy

[warm cedar]

MK I -> Taser
MK II -> Taser + Tranquilizer
MK III -> Taser + Tranquilizer, if overcharged -> Proto-beam
and Idk what in the world MK IIII would have

[warm cedar]

I'm using their own technology

I'm not just destroying them, I'm demolishing them

[mossy python]

You need to develop a weapon that actually inflicts some kind of actual VRChat damage

Such as a friend of a friend who made a gun with the dynamics system that, if they shoot you, puts you in the Skyrim intro

[sweet dragon]

XD

[warm cedar]

Yeah that's not happening

I prefer chaotic guns with beams that can go allover the place with particles

it's going to be pretty hard to map that to a contact sender

[mossy python]

Fair lol

[warm cedar]

But again, it's more a roleplay character. the point was to have the most important part dynamic (E.g hammer, shield, pan). the gun is purely the for the roleplay

Or sexual furries doing the oh no in public lobbies.

[sweet dragon]

bruh

[warm cedar]

I'm not getting scarred again. happened to me twice already

love y'all, great and amazing people with some of the most amazing shaders

[sweet dragon]

i am sorry to hear that

[warm cedar]

I adore all of your graphical aspects and physbones must be an amazing thing to add for your avatars, but holy crap I know damn well furries will be all over the place with sexualized mama-gens that are now quest compatible

[sweet dragon]

TRUE

i am one of the chill one.

[warm cedar]

Was about to say that

point was that as long as there isn't anything publically sexual goin on, I couldn't care less

[stable mantle]

w h a t

ew

[sweet dragon]

Btw meaby someone figured that out but i will ask anyway. In avatar dynamick video there was a sciene ,,slap me 10 times" or something and i wonder how to achive that (in animator )

[warm cedar]

I have a video, It happens

[sweet dragon]

slaping with the pan is the less grose thing i encoutered. penetraation shader rings the bell?
(Weird stuff)

[warm cedar]

Hehe I have a pan that goes bonk

[stable mantle]

It's furs like them that give furs like me a bad name.

[warm cedar]

I've been called a furry, while I'm not

once I was called it just because I was a pc user

w h a t t h e f u c k i s t h a t l o g i c?

[stable mantle]

In an animator? I'd do the same setup as a toggle trigger, only instead of between on & off, it increments a value with a parameter driver and moves to the next state, resets after the desired "target number".

[dim cloak]

i use a normal map as well haha

[sweet dragon]

and i have katana (meaby i should add a get sound to be armed)

[warm cedar]

[stable mantle]

I have 2 swords. It doesn't do much dynamics wise atm, but the edge does register as a finger, and sends a custom "Sword" sender if anyone listens for that sort of thing.

[sweet dragon]

need a photo please

[warm cedar]

I do, My shield does, MY HAMMER DOES

[stable mantle]

I'd have to build it, but I could modify my Gist for toggles describing the setup.

[mossy python]

Man why can’t more furries just be like me: port Elfilin’s model from the new Kirby game to VRC to make shitposts instead of fucking in public

[stable mantle]

Im trying to use Android multiuser magic to sideload the beta alongside the live release. Wish me luck.

[warm cedar]

Don't look at me for answers, I'm just as clueless

[stable mantle]

It's taking a reeeeal long time.

[sweet dragon]

good luck then

[shrewd estuary]

hammer time

[warm cedar]

that moment when you get an idea

but vrchat said

[sweet dragon]

XD Meny times i was like ,, i will add a bell ring sound or something "and hits me most of my friends are Quest/meta users and cant hear that stuff 😿

[warm cedar]

I added 19 audio sources

I simply lack the ability to care anymore ever since those 3 weeks of torture

[mossy python]

They really need to just add audio sources to Quest

[stable mantle]

I'd say I dont know why they removed audio, and then I remember that having more than 4 people talk at a time causes a Quest 2 to simulate a slide projector.

[mossy python]

I mean fuck there’s even an avatar section of the volume mixer on Quest

[molten cobalt]

they're unlikely to do that because CPU limitations of the mobile chipset

[stable mantle]

Ironically the Audio option is still in safety settings.

[mossy python]

Exactly

[stable mantle]

Yea. Unless they find a way to due GPU audio?

Or a way to mix everything to one source; Would sacrifice volumetric audio in exchange for performance.

[molten cobalt]

yes because they didn't want to redo ui for the quest

[stable mantle]

I mean they blocked out shaders. It's still there. It's just greyed out.

[mossy python]

They redid it in some other places lol

[stable mantle]

And they just overhauled the UI.

Like, that would have been the time to fix that.

[warm cedar]

That's why I'm still calling them amatures

if they designed their UI properly, all it would take is this:
Select, delete, re-arrange other UI elements inside the menu

that would've been it

Unity isn't rocket science, it's just tedious

[stable mantle]

TBF the Quest UI is all around a bit sad.

Custom lists only show the first 36-ish results, out of 64, and the search results will glitch and hide half the results.

BUuuuut

[warm cedar]

I can only say cry about it

not in a bad sense, but you can't do anything else that isn't against tos

[stable mantle]

You do have the Quest hardware to keep in mind — Responding to the system UI, being light on CPU performance, etc.

The new LaunchPad is eons ahead of the reskinned classic UI you get pushed to for more advanced options.

If they could replace the classic UI with Launchpad entirely that'd probably be for the best.

[warm cedar]

Remember I just said Unity, hardware limitations are not Unity's fault

[stable mantle]

No, but Unity wasn't designed for the Quest either. You're literally using a "Plugin" to render VR, and if you use the wrong one you only get video in one eye.

Working around those limitations can sometimes be a challenge.

e.g. PhysBones vs Dynamic Bone

Unity doesn't support GPU physics on Android, and Quest is an Android system that has severely bottlenecked CPU performance. So you run into a problem where the solution is to write your own entire physics engine just to do something performant that Unity won't.

There's also the issue that a lot of the performance enhancing features for Quest require Unity's new URP. VRChat is however built on the legacy pipeline. So a lot of work to make things Quest-performant require hoops to jump through, since they're "locked out" of the new toys by Unity & Meta.

—
Im creating a "workspace" project @sweet dragon to try and get something up to send you for a more functional example.

SDK is taking a while to import

[sweet dragon]

If you can plis do. You can DM me if you make it/or just had have an general idea.

[stable mantle]

I found a way that actually works better anyhow, so Ill post the assetpack when done.

[jaunty knot]

Anyone have suggestions on how to get the x and y coordinates along a plane for collision?
Example is someone puts there hand through a plane. I want to get the x and y coordinates (from 0 to 1 respectively) of where they put their hand

[mossy python]

Considering the plane collider goes on infinitely I don’t think that’s possible

Best you could do is use proximity with a sphere collider

[stable mantle]

Requires the PhysBone SDK (obviously) but that's one way to rig up an incremental "contact count"

Note: Without an AV3 emulator, the parameter driver doesn't fire in Unity, but it should work.

I also tried adding descriptive "dummy states" as help notes, and labeled the transitions, for further guidance.

Anyone else here is also welcome to play with it. Hence why Im putting it here.

A lot of physbone stuff is just "coding" with animators. So states, animations act as functions; conditions act as if statements, parameters are the variables, etc.

[sweet dragon]

i will work with that at first look i kinda need a parameter for reaction and one to count. That what i understand

[stable mantle]

The "contact" parameter is local, and the "counter" is what is synced with your Avatar Parameters, just to clarify.

This setup should both reduce desync and also retain the counter between worlds and play sessions.

Following the SDK's guidance, the Counter is incremented locally and synced with your avatar.

So everyone should in theory have the same number.

[sweet dragon]

That is so much info. I will work with that (i will call myself amature, but know the beasic of toogles, animations, senders and recivers ) THX for that : )

[stable mantle]

No probs. Im not great at making avatars, but I'm learning a lot on how to get them to do things I want :)

[soft dove]

Is it possible to change back from beta to live cos when i do so it keeps all of the stuff from the beta and i cant play with any of my friends

[stable mantle]

Quest or PC? Quest is having an issue lately where it doesn't register that you switched to live.

[soft dove]

Quest

Dam

[stable mantle]

Yeah you just have to uninstall and wait.

[soft dove]

Like wait till they fix it or does it just take time to fix itsself

[sweet dragon]

teoreticly you should switch on to live in oculus/meta side to live and reinstasl vrc

thats why i test things on PC

[stable mantle]

I recommend:

1. Uninstalling VRChat

2. Going into the Oculus Smartphone App linked to your quest and making sure the version does not end in 1184-Release ← This is the beta. If it does, click the version name and switch to the other one.

3. Opening the Oculus Store on the Quest and going to the VRChat page.

4. Go to More Info and check the version number.

If it ends in 1184-Release still, do not install it. Reboot your headset and wait about an hour, Check again.

If it ends in the current "Live" build version, install it.

—
Side note: Since Mar. 9 there has been an issue of missing/incorrect App libraries on Quest (https://developer.oculus.com/status/), if you still cannot switch to the live version, I recommend contacting Oculus support about issues switching builds in the Oculus store.

[soft dove]

Thank you it worked i think

[stable mantle]

You can check the build number in VRChat by opening LaunchPad and going to the gear icon in the bottom bar: One of the panels in it will have a build number.

If it is 1170-something (E.G. 1171) you are on live. If it is 1183 or 1184 you are on Beta.

[soft dove]

Yea it worked thanks for that

[stable mantle]

You know what

I wonder if people are getting confused by VRChat labeling the build "1184-Release"?

So many people have issues switching back to live, and Im starting to wonder if they're selecting the beta again because it ends in "Release".

[sour epoch]

no, it's not that. it's because the version is higher and oculus never serves you a lower version than what you already have

[stable mantle]

That's not how it works. The Quest store version serves 2 channels. As long as you're on the "live" channel, and VRChat isn't installed, it'll only serve the highest version in that channel.

There's also reports of people completely reformatting their Quest and still being on the Beta channel.

— I've swapped back to the live channel just fine before. Which is why I know it works like this.

[sour epoch]

yes, it should be independent channels but nope

[stable mantle]

It is.

Like Im telling you that's how it works on my Quest 2 now.

[sour epoch]

I've never heard of anyone being able to switch back and forth without issue

[near grove]

Question

[sour epoch]

this is not an issue with the user making a mistake

[near grove]

Wrong channel

[stable mantle]

As long as you uninstall VRChat first you can swap to the live channel and reinstall it just fine. — It just takes some time for the Quest to "synchronize" (usually no more 24 hours); It doesn't register the change immediately.

So you can't install VRChat until the store on the Quest matches the store in the App/on the Web.

There's a lot of places for it to go wrong due to user error, the way Oculus set it up.

[sour epoch]

ah, I thought you were saying you could switch back and forth without uninstalling

[gritty salmon]

Failing to wait 24 hours before reinstalling doesn't feel like 'user error' to me but rather poor platform design

[stable mantle]

Nononono that requires ADB and a dev-unlocked machine.

[stable mantle]

It's both. You shouldn't have to, but those who do put themselves back into the beta.

[sour epoch]

yes, as long as you know the steps and follow them it'll work. but most people who are "stuck" don't even know that there are steps and they just try to change release channel

which is a totally reasonable assumption

[gritty salmon]

it's also a bit unreasonable for someone to be locked out of vrc for 24 hours after participating in a beta :/

[stable mantle]

The big thing is: a factory reset Quest should sync up with the store, so if it's still downloading the beta, it suggests that either the channel change "didn't take" or that the user selected the wrong channel.

There's been at least 3 people here with that same story.

[stable mantle]

Sometimes it takes after a few minutes. It just sometimes doesn't.

[sour epoch]

sure, that's fair

[stable mantle]

You even call it a "release channel" here, and the beta, in the oculus store, doesn't call itself "Beta" it calls itself "Release".

[gritty salmon]

maybe vrchat should just distribute APKs so only people with the means to self-downgrade can get into the beta 🤔

[stable mantle]

So Im wondering if half of these reversion issues are because people who see "1184-Release" in the list and think that's the "latest version" of the "live" version.

[stable mantle]

That'd lock out content creators without a dev unlocked Quest.

New requirements for Oculus developer signup require a credit card on file and a bunch of personal information.

[gritty salmon]

ugh

[stable mantle]

And since Meta/FB owns quest, a lot of people are hesitant to do that.

[sour epoch]

ehhh all the builds are called release because they are being released. but there are multiple "release channels" such as live and openbeta

[stable mantle]

Yeah. It's just not readily apparent which one you are selecting unless you know what you're doing.

[stable mantle]

Honestly, a separate "Beta" store listing would be better. It could receive both Live & Beta channel updates, and could be installed alongside the live version for those who need to test content in Beta but wish to play on live.

[sour epoch]

but the dropdown clearly says

live: 2022.whatever
openbeta: 2022.whatever

[stable mantle]

I didn't see that when I switched I just saw the version number. Weird.

[stable mantle]

weeeeird it didn't give that to me before.

Then again the version selector was also glitching out on me (iOS) until recenty.

So maybe there was some bugs on Oculus' end.

[near grove]

Wait vrchat on phone?

[gritty salmon]

that's the oculus store app

[stable mantle]

No the Oculus app is how you switch builds.

Hmmm

[near grove]

Oh-

[stable mantle]

I still think some are possibly not paying attention to which build they selected nor waiting long enough. Since it seems like it works fine if you do.

But there is the "ongoing issue" of missing/broken App libraries, so that may be effecting things too.

I personally have an unlocked quest so I sidestep the issue entirely by doing an ADB downgrade to live. I can switch between the two AND keep my data.

Maybe proper Live-channel reinstallation instructions in #open-beta-info would be useful, seeing as there are "quirks" to the Oculus beta process that make it difficult.

—
Curious, but what are y'all doing for interactive props like guns/swords/batons with physbones?

I still don't know what to do with my swords, lmao.

[near grove]

You use them to stab children

[stable mantle]

You don't say.

[near grove]

I want avatar with gun

[stable mantle]

Im just meaning like... You can't have physbones that interact with others's physbones, so the only things you can do with a prop like that is a contact-sender.

[near grove]

I don't even know what they are-

I'm ✨ stupid ✨

[stable mantle]

So like, without some kinda "agreed upon" contact types beyond the default, it'd be hard to get anything beyond a simulated finger working.

[near grove]

Yes

[stable mantle]

PhysBones: Bones with physics, so they can move when interacted with or when the player moves (clothes, hair, tails, etc.).

Contact Senders: Areas that can "generate" contact and interact with "receivers" — These are not physical, but can trigger effects. (nose boops, prop interactions, etc.)

Contact Receivers: Areas that can be contacted by "senders". — These trigger an effect or parameter when they receive contact from a registered sender type.

[near grove]

Ohh

[stable mantle]

The problem is Senders & Receivers cannot be "generic". — You have to specify what type of contact they send or receive. (finger, toe, etc.)

And the only "universal" types are fingers & toes, mostly. Either a generic finger or the individual finger types.

So for anything else, you have to give them a custom name.

And this is a problem for interactive props in 2 ways:

1. They cannot interact with another player's physbones, so nothing dynamic there.

2. The sender/receiver types must match, which means you need to know what the other avatars use if you want to have your prop interact the same way.

—
So for instance, if my Saber sends type "Sword", but little Timmy's avatar listens for "Saber" and Johnny's avatar listens for "Sabre", it won't do anything with their avatars.

[near grove]

Bro my IQ is equal to a box of bricks

[stable mantle]

The prop tags must match for a prop to do a thing on an avatar.

My sword can say "Hi Im sword" but if your avatar is looking for a prop named "saber", it no do the thing.

[near grove]

Are you a robot

[stable mantle]

[near grove]

✅

You scare me

[stable mantle]

Lmao I was saying "no Im not" but if you'd like me to click all the boats on a highway, lemme know

Anyhoo, Im wondering if those working with the beta have some kinda agreed on parameters for certain types of props?

[near grove]

bro what-

[cursive bridge]

Yeah this is why I'm waiting for like everybody to get together and standardize things...

I was hoping PVPeople would standardize on like. Damage. at least as a fallback for everything.

And then if you REALLY HAVE TO have SPECIFICALLY SPARKS fly out when hit by a sword, you could have an extra slightly bigger Contact that ideally catches that you're being sworded slightly before the one that listens for Damage (and can therefore block the default Damage animation and instead play Sword)

However I am like wilting and dying waiting for the dev team to address modifying physbone properties on the fly... do we still have to turn the whole physbone off to change its properties

I need my stupid physbone to go from being axis frozen to axis unfrozen when grabbed -_-

[lament minnow]

No idea if this is the place to put this, but anyone know why my hair is potentially not moving with phys bones? I've tried everything to try and get it to work.. this is my first avatar I'm trying to create/upload and so far I've gotten everything else working/set up but my hair...

[cursive bridge]

gotta screensnip us the physbone script etc

Like um. Show us where on the avatar you're trying to add the PhysBones script.

[lament minnow]

I made a root bone for the hair in blender

Since I saw in another video not to put it on the head/other humanoid bones

[cursive bridge]

What happens if you grab this root bone with the gizmos in the Scene (weight paint check)

Like what happens when, with it selected, you use the gizmos to drag it around.

[lament minnow]

My hair doesn't move. But if I click and drag my body it moves

[cursive bridge]

Can you double-check your weight paint in Blender?

Like that your vertex groups are all named correctly and are posing your hair?

[lament minnow]

lemme check real quick.

yeah bones are moving as they should in blender

mesh is moving fine from what i see as well when i move them there

[cursive bridge]

Can I see your hierarchy? Are you sure your hair bones actually have this as a parent?

It's super weird that you move the hair root and no hair comes with!

[lament minnow]

In blender or unity?

[cursive bridge]

Either

[lament minnow]

The Root_BHairL1 is where my phys bones are in unity

[cursive bridge]

Damn, that does look like it should work. What happens if you rotate your avatar forward by its Hips?

Does the hair come with you fine then?

[lament minnow]

Yep..

[cursive bridge]

in Unity.

[lament minnow]

Oh

lemme check

Yeah moves fine

[cursive bridge]

Like all the way up the chain, Hips, Spine, Chest, Neck, Head

and then you rotate the root and the hair doesn't move?!

I think you might just need to drag the root hair bone into the root box

[lament minnow]

So not in play mode it moves. In play mode I can't move the oot

root*

[cursive bridge]

but I thought we didn't HAVE to?

[lament minnow]

I can try dragging it into the root box

I think I've done it once but I'll try again

[cursive bridge]

I know my Contact Sender/Receiver stuff does NOT work as expected if I drag things in as root. 😛

But I do weird constraint stuff. And it works fine with no root set.

[lament minnow]

Do I need to set up contraints?

[cursive bridge]

nooooooooooo

[lament minnow]

Ok ok lol

had me panic for a second

[cursive bridge]

I'm just saying that the root box definitely does Stuff

[lament minnow]

Loading it up now to test

[cursive bridge]

even though I THOUGHT I heard in the docs that if you left it blank it just would assume you meant the transform it was put on to be the root.

[lament minnow]

Nope still no movement...

[cursive bridge]

Does it move in the Scene view?

I never use the Game view to test things.

[lament minnow]

Yep...

That's where I've been initially checking it and why i'm so confused

[cursive bridge]

If it moves in the Scene view it should work fine in VRC

[lament minnow]

Maybe its me? I have no available who could test it for me unfortunately

I checked my settings and I don't have limit bones on

[jaunty knot]

So I posted about this earlier and was looking into Capsule and Sphere proximity contact receivers. But I'm not seeing a good way to achieve what I'm wanting.

I'm basically making a Square and I'm wanting to get X and Y values as you go further to the top right.

Any idea if its possible for me to utilize the contact receivers in a way that fits this?

[cursive bridge]

If you put four spheres, one at each corner, you can get accurate coords while stuff is within the square.

Also the sphere radii should be uhhh, the length of this square from 0,0 to 1,1

[jaunty knot]

Is there a way I could disallow the proximity outside of the square?

[cursive bridge]

Well outside the square you won't be getting ALL FOUR floats back

[jaunty knot]

Oh I see

[cursive bridge]

only within the square will you get all four I think

[jaunty knot]

clever

[keen nova]

I feel like you could save a float and get the same result 🤔

[lean linden]

i have a question for the beta players, we still cannot play with the ones in other updates right?

[ionic jay]

If you are in the beta branch, you cant play with people on the live one

[lean linden]

ouch

[keen nova]

This beta no, its not network compatable.
#ik-2 is network compatible tho.

[lean linden]

it was because i had a model i made with physbones

and since i was alone most of the time i went back to the live version

[keen nova]

Makes sense, as it is more to test things out, not quite make final products as it's expected for things to change.

[near grove]

I have a clap animation that uses a contact receiver on the left hand with On Enter activation with Hand R. It works great...except the audio plays twice in rapid succession. It doesn't seem to be looping, just doubling. I have "Has Exit Time" unchecked on any transitions that have conditions, but I can't do the same on transitions without any conditions, like the ones that go to my catch-all animation that disables all audio sources. None of the animations themselves are set to loop.

In the screenshot of my animator controller, "Clap Time" has a VRC Avatar Parameter driver that sets the parameter "ClapSound" randomly between 1 and 3, and transitions to each clap sound accordingly based on those Int conditions. Then each clap sound transitions to "No Clap" which has the catch-all deactivator, and those transitions have no conditions, and thus do have an exit time. Then it goes back to the wait state.

In testing with GestureManager in play mode, the On Enter parameter "Clap" only goes to 1.0 once for a single frame, as expected.

Unchecking "Fixed Duration" and setting Exit Time to 0 on those I have to keep checked has helped, but it still double-claps maybe 40% of the time.

I think I've mostly fixed it by changing the speed on Wait and Clap Time from 1 to 5. No idea if that's a good way to do it, but I've reduced double-claps to maybe 1 out of 10. If you have a better solution, please share.

Oi, nevermind... It just straight up doesn't work entirely when actually in VRC. I give up, lol

[urban salmon]

So It's my first time doing phys bones. Am I missing a step? I added the phys bones just like dynamic bones and made sure the interaction settings are checked on. everything moves fine in game but they don't highlight blue and no one can grab them.

[near grove]

You need a collision radius >0

[urban salmon]

Thanks!

[tired vigil]

im sure this has been answered a thousand times, but how do you simulate grabbing and such in the editor?

[hollow hatch]

Switch to play mode, use mouse?

[tired vigil]

oh i didnt even consider using the game window

i always just have that off somewhere hidden since i dont need it, thank you lol

[hollow hatch]

It is a basic use though. This also supports them, but I haven't used it myself since it was updated, so I don't know what it gives over just using the game window https://github.com/lyuma/Av3Emulator

[tired vigil]

yea, ive got lyuma's emulator

[cursive bridge]

It’s so good, saves me so many headaches.

[hearty ore]

How do I set up a stretch float since when I set mine up it wont activate.

[hearty ore]

The hell?

the strech isnt detecte

[near grove]

https://tenor.com/view/good-morning-kiss-gif-23715848

Me waiting for the beta to not be a beta and fully release

[stable mantle]

It's going to be a while

I don't think this is like the camera beta where it's one and done in under a month.

PhysBones and Avatar Dynamics are a wholly complex things. Not only do they need to iron out kinks they need to add missing components and take feedback.

The best you can hope for short term is a network compatible beta that lets you play with live users without PhysBones.

[flat patrol]

close beta was 3 month

[near grove]

I wish they made it to where I can find other beta players in games instead of trying to get lucky and joining a empty server

[stable mantle]

Yea that's kinda disorienting. I forgot to switch to the mainline branch once, on my Quest, and apparently the store remembers even if that branch is removed.

When the PhysBone beta came out it installed & I didn't even realize it, until my friend and I were "in the same instance" yet I couldn't find them.

They need to have some kinda indication a lobby and or players are in beta.

[last viper]

Yeah, live a beta specific server list that shows only beta players

[stable mantle]

Also an icon on the social profile would be nice.

Like a β encapsulated in a circle pinned to the profile image in one of the corners.

Let's live players know whose beta too to prevent confusion.

[sonic knoll]

hey, I'm having a problem with contact senders and receivers being invisible in the Unity Viewport. Anyone else had this issue and is there a fix?

[last viper]

By any chance did you turn off gizmos? (Top right in the scene view)

[sonic knoll]

just found it. I'm so oblivious lol. thanks

[last viper]

Np ^^

[frank bluff]

Ummm im running into the strange issue of the avatar not working.. the avatar spawns with its hands at its sides, none of the phys bones work, none of the toggles even pop up. When i press debug it gives the error of "either avatar is sdk 2.0 or avatar is"
But if i go on the live build the toggles and everything work but the phys bones obviously dont work so im a bit confused. FX layer, parameters , and menus are in the avatar builder as well.

[nova raptor]

Are the phys bones on any "humanoid" bones?
Hips, Head, Neck, Chest, etc?

[frank bluff]

Nope made sure of that

[nova raptor]

Gotcha
dunno then
Wish ya luck

[frank bluff]

Fixed it, a duplicate parameter was the cause of it not functioning

[lyric bough]

well I have a problem

I have checked grabbable and poseable bones and it's not

it's not even have collision

[abstract trench]

you have to add colliders to the bone higher up in the physbone component