open-beta-discussion

[sleek badger]

okayy

hows this?

[near grove]

Yo um I did the open beta and joined my friend and I didn’t see them so I deleted vrchat and reinstalled it and I joined and then my avatars are going pc mode when I join a world so what do I do

[sleek badger]

hm..

it moves very weird now

like the position of the tail doesnt match my mouse atall

like its being caught on something while i try to move it

and i STILL cant pull from the tail

lemme check the weight painting..

yep -_-

no weight painting

aggghhhghh

[jovial sedge]

lol that'd do it

[sleek badger]

pain

so uhh

[mortal plume]

well, does it have vertex groups?

[sleek badger]

whatd be the easiest way to fix this

[sleek badger]

'it' ..?

[mortal plume]

the tail mesh

[sleek badger]

the tail bones?

[jovial sedge]

I usually just use gradient tool for things like this

[mortal plume]

no, the mesh

[sleek badger]

oh you mean the body

well

the 2 first parts of the tail do

but not the tip

[near grove]

When is it going to be public on Quest?

[sleek badger]

true

i meant moreso the entire process tho

[timber jewel]

there is no ETA

[sleek badger]

can i still replace the fbx like i did last time?

what parts am i going to have to redo?

[timber jewel]

So it could be a week or a whole month

[sleek badger]

can i not do it within unity?

[mortal plume]

to fix the weight painting, you do that in blender. after fixing it, you can just replace the fbx in unity

[sleek badger]

oh uhh... nevermind xD

[mortal plume]

don't forget that you can limit weight painting to whatever parts of the mesh you select

to avoid stuff like that

[sleek badger]

okay.. last time i had to redo a lotta stuff tho.. 😣

[sleek badger]

yeah.. how?

[mortal plume]

easiest way imo: select the tail in edit mode, go to weight painting mode, and enable either vertex/face masking in the top left

besides the weight painting mode button

[sleek badger]

okay um

''in the top left'' is EXTREMELY vague xD

[sleek badger]

ahh okay

that makes it clearer xD

there! :)

this little innocent goat tail has driven me to insanity xD

[mortal plume]

make sure your weights are normalized

look at the group for the previous bone and check if it's also influencing the tip

if it is, not normalized

[sleek badger]

ah.. yes.. that is a blender thing that.. exists.. err.. half remember what that means.. id assume they are?

[sleek badger]

oh

it is

[mortal plume]

what does it look like

[sleek badger]

you mean this?

[mortal plume]

that's bad

[sleek badger]

what? bad?

why?

i thoguht it was good

[mortal plume]

if you look at the tip of the tail, you can see that both the groups for the last bone and the middle bone have influence 1 for those vertices

[sleek badger]

oh

misread what you wrote

[mortal plume]

which means that the sum of all the weights is 2

if you don't fix it, and let unity normalize the weights, they will be evenly distributed

so the tip of the tail will have weights 0.5 to both groups

[sleek badger]

okay yep my brain has shut off xD

[mortal plume]

which isn't what you want

[sleek badger]

understanding this stuff is hard im sorry :,)

[mortal plume]

to fix it, click on the last tail bone, and do Weights > Normalize all

[sleek badger]

''weights'' where?

[mortal plume]

then, to ensure it doesn't happen again, go to Options in the top right of the viewport, and enable Auto normalize

[mortal plume]

top left

besides View

[sleek badger]

view?

wait

that?

[mortal plume]

no, I said left

[sleek badger]

oh

[mortal plume]

you're confusing your right and your left lol

[sleek badger]

right

my brain is melting xD

[sleek badger]

aka not right lmao

okay done

huzzah

to be fair its possible i changed the bones up and thats why the middle bone's weight looked like it wasnt normalized and why the tip didnt have any weights

but doesnt matter

it works now

ill just drag the textures in manually this time like you said xD

although.. wait..

where even ARE the textures tho

the model is from vroid or whatever its called

[mortal plume]

not something you need to worry about in blender

[sleek badger]

oh uh.. ok..?

will the materials and textures be included in the fbx?

[mortal plume]

no

but you already set that up in unity so it's not an issue

[sleek badger]

oh

so i get the textures from, unity

and materials

o..ok

oh..

i was in play mode

er...

thats okay....... right..?

oh.. weird

the textures and materials are already applied and have the right settings shaders..

did i even change anything...?

im suspicious

[mortal plume]

looks good to me

that's why people tell you to not unpack the avatar

[jovial sedge]

you use it for smaller things like tails and hair lol

[mortal plume]

because then you can just override the FBX and unity will update the model in place

[sleek badger]

thats what i was trying to do xD

[sleek badger]

unpack the avatar?

[mortal plume]

don't worry about it

[sleek badger]

omg!!!

it did work!!!

oh thats amazing

i was so worried id have to redo a bunch of things

but nope

it replaced the avatar perfectly smoothly..... unlike my grammar xD

oh thats so satisfying

[mortal plume]

yep, that's what's supposed to happen

if you don't unpack your avatar

[jovial sedge]

wait what that's a thing???

I am hollow now

[sleek badger]

xD

[sleek badger]

what is?

[jovial sedge]

Just updating the model instead of redoing the whole damn process

[mortal plume]

yep

[sleek badger]

oh yeah

[mortal plume]

you just override the FBX

[sleek badger]

it doesnt always perfectly work tho

thats why i was so surprised.. xD

[mortal plume]

easiest way is to just export directly to where your FBX is from blender

[sleek badger]

oh true true

[mortal plume]

it should always work unless you modify export settings in blender

[sleek badger]

ohh

[jovial sedge]

damn well thanks for that information

[sleek badger]

so maybe thats why it worked for me

[jovial sedge]

would've saved a lot of time to know beforehand

[mortal plume]

you can also bookmark folders in the blender export window

[sleek badger]

i followed the dumb tutorial and changed the path mode to copy everytime

(its a great tutorial im just joking)

[sleek badger]

i knew that :D

[mortal plume]

that's only if you're also trying to copy over the textures

but you already did that before

so you don't need to do it again

[sleek badger]

oh so it applies the phys bones to the other bones automatically....? or is that not intended

[jovial sedge]

I hate tutorials so I've kinda just jumped into everything mostly blind

[sleek badger]

because like..... i didnt add this

[timber jewel]

I love how this channel turned in to a blender tutorial

[sleek badger]

omg same

[sleek badger]

loll

basically

[jovial sedge]

To make my model I watched a timelapse of some pro doing it then went to Royal Skies' channel whenever I got lost

also had a friend help me here and there when needed :^)

[sleek badger]

actually this channel just turned into ''scribble looses her mind about a goat tail for literally an entire day''

[jovial sedge]

Unity I know jack all though

[sleek badger]

same its weird heading into it xD

but im getting used to it

its easier to learn than blender at least

at least the stuff you need

idk

easier to get familiar with moreso i guess

[sleek badger]

soo.. is that normal? xD

[stoic pasture]

Was the hip issue fixed in the new sdk?

[sleek badger]

i dont think thats normal...????

im just gonna remove it..

[jovial sedge]

Wouldn't know never updated FBX before :^)

I would always just make a new thing then copy paste everything over

[sleek badger]

... well thats funky xD

okay soo

rn it seems the two err.. forgot the names im just gonna call them ''hitboxes'' are kinda.. colliding against eachother?

which makes the movement kinda weird and janky

idk if this is normal and/or intended?

like theyre kinda grinding against eachother and locking eachother up

if that makes sense

[jovial sedge]

No it definitely isn't normal or intended

[sleek badger]

cause they push against eachother

.. this is sounding more innapropriate than i am intending it to xD

the two bones are grinding against eachother ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[sleek badger]

so um- how do i change that xD

its like theyre colliding with eachother

[jovial sedge]

Pretty sure it's the endpoints you have to edit more

[sleek badger]

i just want them to move freely

[sleek badger]

how?

[jovial sedge]

but I've never had this issue so like

[sleek badger]

like in what way

it seems more like a setting than an adjustment

here

i took a recording on how its acting

hope this helps visualize my issue more

wait

sorry

lemme change the thingy

there

watch that

see the jankyness?

[timber jewel]

looks like this:
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1183-small-max-angles-on-a-phys-bone-results-in-grabbing-and-moving-sometimes-ge

@sleek badger

[ivory vigil]

I’m abt to cry I’m stuck in beta

Help

[sleek badger]

huh?

you mean you cant play the non beta version of vrchat?

[ivory vigil]

Yes

[timber jewel]

if you play on Oculus / Meta Quest, you will get stuck in the beta

[sleek badger]

you cant switch it to ''none'' in steam?

[timber jewel]

They are on Oculus Quest

[sleek badger]

hm

[ivory vigil]

Can you fix it

[jovial sedge]

they're on Quest and it has some issue of getting out of game betas

[sleek badger]

maybe reinstall?

[jovial sedge]

some people just can't leave them lmao

[sleek badger]

idk anything

[timber jewel]

Sometimes reinstaling VRChat helps, if not either wait a lot or factory reset your Quest

[ivory vigil]

How do I factory reset my headset

[sleek badger]

but i didnt have this issue until i changed the end point??

i think..

well truthfully

i didnt have the issue until i fixed the weight painting of the tail...

hm..

[timber jewel]

try setting the max angle to a higher angle and see if it fixes it

cause I don't have those issue on higher may angle values

[ivory vigil]

How do I factory reset my head

[sleek badger]

okay i changed the end point position to 0 and yep

[ivory vigil]

Set

[sleek badger]

dont have the issue anymore

[timber jewel]

interesting

maybe comment on my post that this also happens with end end point set

[sleek badger]

i wish i could factory reset my head tbh 😂 😂 😂

[sleek badger]

but me lazy

[sleek badger]

okay guess ill try

but like.. it seems like the issue is just a property with how the phybones work in itself..???

like

[jovial sedge]

all my endpoints are just on their default of 0 and I got no issues so

[sleek badger]

it seems like this is an issue of ''colliders on, colliders off''

[timber jewel]

yeah 0 = no endpoint set

[jovial sedge]

guess whatever its intended use is just doesn't quite work right now

[sleek badger]

so uh

i put it higher

that doesnt change anything though

its behaving exactly the same

its just pushing against eachother when i dont want it too

its acting like im trying to move two sticks together

like its not following along cleanly

the bottom bone is keeping the tip from moving to places

[ivory vigil]

I’m on quest

2

[sleek badger]

does the screenshot not work on quest 2?

https://www.howtogeek.com/782099/how-to-factory-reset-an-oculus-quest-2/

there

[ivory vigil]

I don’t know how to factory reset

[sleek badger]

OH

HigHER AngLE

NOT hiGHEr NUmbER

ffs xD

(yall can your spam bot chill please he's being really annoying 😂 )

like removing caps is making my messages MORE annoying than if they just were in all caps lmaooo

[timber jewel]

I mean a angle of 50 is higher than one with 20 so yeah xD

[sleek badger]

so like this?

oh wait

[timber jewel]

no not the end position xD

[sleek badger]

you mean higher angle as in wider?

wait what

then what?

[timber jewel]

Max Angle

there is a setting for that

[sleek badger]

i thought you meant this angle

[timber jewel]

noooo

xD

[sleek badger]

aaagh xD

[sleek badger]

ohhh

but like is that really the problem?=

cause i could put the angle as whatever when the end position was 0 with no issue

[timber jewel]

when I had a max angle of 20 I had those weird angles it was kinda getting stuck when grabbing it, when I had it at like 60 those were gone

[sleek badger]

so like this

[sleek badger]

ohh i seeeee

that makes sensee

[timber jewel]

that's what my canny is about

[sleek badger]

hmm

hope xD

its just getting stuck in weirder ways now

lemme record it

[timber jewel]

well then it's a different thing

[ivory vigil]

I’m scared if I factory reset and then it doesn’t work and then I just lose everything

[muted bloom]

The whole point of factory resetting is that you lose everything

[sleek badger]

like... i can move it better.. i guess..? But its still janky as all hell

[muted bloom]

It’s like you just opened up your quest for the first time

[timber jewel]

weird for me the jank is gone at higher angles

[ivory vigil]

I know but the thing is if I do it and The dynamics are still there

That’s what I’m scared of doing

[sleek badger]

:(

guess ill jhust have to deal

[muted bloom]

They won’t be that’s the whole point of a factory reset the game is not even going to be installed

[timber jewel]

this is with may angle of 20

[bright jungle]

Your avatars, friends, rank, and etc will be carried over. You'll have to reinstall all your other games as well, but you won't lose access to them

[timber jewel]

and this one with 45

[muted bloom]

factory reset you lose everything

[bright jungle]

what's kept in other games is entirely up to them, though

[ivory vigil]

Ok I trust u

[sleek badger]

yours looks like it only has one ''bone'' tho

mine has two

with one it worked perfectly fine

cause it wasnt really ''attached'' to anything

[timber jewel]

I tried it with 2 and that worked fine

[sleek badger]

i guess

[bright jungle]

kinda have the opposite issue for me, oddly

[sleek badger]

weird...

[bright jungle]

small angles are fine, large angles go brbrbrbr

[timber jewel]

really weird

[sleek badger]

okay so

i think i found a better description of what i mean

look

[timber jewel]

I feel like grabbing is sometimes a bit broken in generall

[sleek badger]

(uploading)

[ivory vigil]

I will still have my Vrchat account right

[bright jungle]

@ivory vigil yes lol, ^

you'll need to log in to it again, though

[ivory vigil]

I factory reset it

[sleek badger]

when i pull down from the tip, the bottom bone gets PUSHED down first

instead of the tip leading and being followed by the bottom

[sleek badger]

THAT is precisely the problem im having with this

[timber jewel]

maybe you are not acutally grabbing the tip?

try garbing it from the side

[sleek badger]

ah im definitely grabbing it

as you can see i can pull the tip all the way down

[timber jewel]

really weird

[sleek badger]

and when selecting the middle its noticably different than what i was moving in the middle

so

essentially im bothered by the physbones acting like inverse kinematics lol

except

[ivory vigil]

Tysm

[sleek badger]

the inverse kinematics push against the grabbed bones

[timber jewel]

this is so weird

[sleek badger]

so its WORSE than if it was ACTUALLY like inverse kinematics

ik would just follow the grabbed tip cleanly, no jankiness

but thats not what the physbones are doing

[sleek badger]

theyre like.. pushing eachother away

idk man

[mortal plume]

do you still have multiple physbone components?

[timber jewel]

you should defiantly make a canny about it

[mortal plume]

or just a single one on the root

[sleek badger]

nope

just one

like i said not on the root but on the middle, intentionally

i dont want the root to move

so the end stays nicely in place like its supposed to

its just what works best for this model specifically

[timber jewel]

my tail for example doesn't have those issues

[ivory vigil]

Tysm u guys are life savers

[muted bloom]

I really want an animation behavior to reset PB pose

[ivory vigil]

Bc my hole life is vrc

[muted bloom]

Or an animatable parameter trigger to do it

[sleek badger]

so this deformation is definitely weird

[timber jewel]

yup

[sleek badger]

but i guess its just cause of the inherent curve of the tail and you cant really do anything against that..?

[inner kayak]

gib canny

[jovial sedge]

remember that a LOT of avatars in VRC have jank and you don't have to make everything perfect

if you don't want to go insane you have to compromise somewhere

[sleek badger]

ikk but it bothers meeee >-<

i wanna at least TRY

[timber jewel]

should still be fixed xD

cause it's an issue with phys bones

[jovial sedge]

I didn't read up so didn't know whatever it was was about the beta

but it's still generally good advice to not drive yourself insane perfecting everything

make something good and passable and you can slowly improve on it as time goes on

[bright jungle]

could try making the tail straight in Blender, then making it's default pose be curved, then adding physbones? o:

[sleek badger]

so.. parts that have colliders, will outomaticaly move out the way of hands without even having to grab it correct?

[inner kayak]

me sitting at 400+ updates to my personal model

[timber jewel]

that's how colliders work yes xD

[jovial sedge]

I feel that, I've been doing nothing but touch things up for a week now on mine :^)

Weight painting has made me demented

[timber jewel]

thankfully I never had to do that xD

[bright jungle]

weight painting :notlikethis:

blur tool my savior

[inner kayak]

data transfer ❤️

[sleek badger]

is there a way to change the length of these collisions?

cause like.. her booba kinda l o n g

😂

im sorry

[jovial sedge]

Smear tool is best tool

[sleek badger]

smear tool?

[jovial sedge]

Weight painting tool

[sleek badger]

how is that going so change the shape of the collision radius @-@

[timber jewel]

did you set an end point for it?

or does it use an end bone

[sleek badger]

this looks so wrong 😂

[sleek badger]

theres only one bone

so end point is 0

i am so sorry yagi 😂

[inner kayak]

set a collision curve, make the end smaller and pinch
or shrink the bone in blender

no one will see the collision anyways outside the debug overlay, so isn't too big of an issue

unless you really need it to be flush with the body

[sleek badger]

i- i think i made it worse.. xD

i think ill just stick with weird longsausage boobs lmao

its not a big deal

i guess thi is fine.. xD

i cant see the radius of this phys bone?

trying to apply it to the bow rn

omg imagine adding physbones to the cheeks and you can squish her face xD

youd need to rig that ofc

just thought of it as a random idea lol

aw man phys bones are so heccin fun

this is amazing xD

as much pain as this is its still REALLY really fun

[sleek badger]

... still need help tho.. xD

i should note the bow is a separate object

does that affect anything?

[old rock]

is it me or is the phys bone radius a bit wonky after the last beta sdk?

previous sdk version on left, latest on right, same radius values

[sleek badger]

i checked and its not grabbable either

[sleek badger]

do her asscheeks have physbones 👀

[old rock]

I am a man of class i'll have you know

[sleek badger]

😂

[old rock]

maybe

[sleek badger]

thats amazing tbh

no judgemen from me lmaoo

[old rock]

also the date on the latest sdk is 👀

[sleek badger]

huh?

so when i change the endpoint length it does this

but without an endpoint theres just........nothing

[old rock]

restarted the editor and the date is showing correct now, weird

[sleek badger]

so putting the root transform as the middle parent bone of the bow does..... this?

[old rock]

scribble, this is endpoints

single bones

[sleek badger]

im confused..

but the booba only had one phys bone??

no end point needed

[old rock]

you need an endpoint defined for a single bone

[sleek badger]

but the booba is a single bone

and there is no defined endpoint

i even mentioned it earlier because someone asked

[old rock]

endpoints are effectively dynamicbone offsets which create a pseudo transform and how single bones can move

[timber jewel]

are you sure "booba" doesn't have a child bone?

[sleek badger]

booba is the childbone

see

no other bones there

[inner kayak]

i would just set the overall radius to 0.02 and curve the end bit down

[sleek badger]

just two booba children attached to the parent chest

[obsidian wagon]

whats in that ones dropdown 😳

[timber jewel]

Your "Breast_L" can be unfolded, so it has a child...

[sleek badger]

https://tenor.com/view/controlmypc-cat-screaming-discord-gif-20582295

[timber jewel]

xD

[sleek badger]

okayso

but ten

so

uh

so

ium

right

so

i add phys bones to the BOW

aka chest .001 because i forgot to name it properly xD

and from there add the end point thingies

for all the attached parts

ye? xD

so

do i put size at 4 for the four ''appendages'' ?

i forgot

like..

that seems like the logical way to go..?.... i think? xD

[inner kayak]

that will make the 4 "appendages" not move

as the physbone will just ignore them now

[sleek badger]

wait why

so how do i do this?

[inner kayak]

the physbone affects all children automatically

[sleek badger]

so i dont need to change the size?

OHHH

wait......

[inner kayak]

not for Ignore Transforms

[sleek badger]

but i dont want it to ignore it??

[inner kayak]

nope

does the ribbons on your bow not move with physbones?

[sleek badger]

but its gonna ignore it automatically??

[sleek badger]

wdym?

[inner kayak]

like

[sleek badger]

well now its like.. this??

[inner kayak]

make the collision radius a bit smaller

so it better fits the ribbons

itll help you see which axis the endpoint setting is being applied to as well

[sleek badger]

what id need is like, this

[inner kayak]

tinker with which axis you set the endpoint position to

[sleek badger]

okay

[sleek badger]

okay

[sleek badger]

i guess ill do this temporarily for claritys sake

ok so this seems perfect except theyre way too long

[twilit plaza]

when is dymanic coming to quest

[inner kayak]

make endpoint smaller

[bright jungle]

physbones are already available for Quest - #open-beta-info

[sleek badger]

wait

no i got it

it was being weird before

[inner kayak]

try making the endpoint Y axis 0.5, and continue making it smaller until you get it to fit

[sleek badger]

ok!!

[inner kayak]

yes

[sleek badger]

this looks good i think

[inner kayak]

👍

the Y axis of a bone is usually along its length, so its probably the option you'll use the most when you need to set a custom endpoint

[sleek badger]

why isnt max stretch doing anything?

[inner kayak]

max stretch is how far someone can pull it

[sleek badger]

no matter how high i put it it wont let me stretch it

atall

[jovial sedge]

make sure you have it all weight painted properly

[sleek badger]

it is!!

look in blender i can even stretch it

but not in unity

[inner kayak]

are you stretching it in play mode from game view?

[sleek badger]

yes

[inner kayak]

do you see the end point being stretched if you watch from scene view?

[sleek badger]

hmm

how..?

i cant stretch it in scene view

[inner kayak]

grab and stretch in game view, right click to lock its pose

go back to scene view

or you can place game and scene tabs next to each other

[sleek badger]

ahh ok

ooo

neat

thanks

nope

no stretching

[inner kayak]

might need another bone in the chain before the ribbons to make it stretch

[sleek badger]

what why

that makes no sense

just.. move the bone

its not even attached to the bow

i can do it in blender too

[inner creek]

Yeah, but blender doesn't have a script on it that controls this

[inner kayak]

the bones stretch, they separate from each other

might need a bone in the middle to stretch from

[inner kayak]

im also learning all this rn so i could be wrong, but thats what seems most logical to me

[sleek badger]

there is a bone in the middle!!!!!!

[inner kayak]

as you already do have endpoint set

mm

[sleek badger]

thats what ''bow'' is

[violet pewter]

for some reason the viewport and the head collider is placed over my head in the game, while in unity it seems ok (note that i'm not sure if it's a bug of the openbeta sdk or me that did shit?)

[sleek badger]

see?

[inner kayak]

mm

huh

[inner kayak]

yeah that should work

not sure why it wouldnt be

[violet pewter]

yeah from what i tried the stretch is broken in the game tab

[jovial sedge]

you made sure you updated the SDK and stuff right? Could be that

stretch seems to work for me fine enough right now

[violet pewter]

yep a new project from today with last sdk (2022.03.10.14.12)

[inner kayak]

works just fine for me, latest sdk

[sleek badger]

no but the tail seemed to stretch fine?

see?

works fine

[violet pewter]

i don't know, nothing was stretching on my end in the gameview in unity ^^'

[sleek badger]

so.. if i want to give the hair physics.. i add phys bones to the head, and ignore transforms for the eyes.. right? :3

[sleek badger]

weird......

[violet pewter]

idk how i didn't see it when testing, but when "playing" in unity, the viewpoint do show fucked up too

[inner kayak]

latest version of av3emulator?

[violet pewter]

i wouldn't recommend, the rootbone can rotate with the physbones

[sleek badger]

there! :D

[inner kayak]

dont put physbone on head, itll break head tracking in game

[violet pewter]

(testing in desktop everything was good, but yea in vr it's rlly fucky)

[violet pewter]

yup, i have another avatar uploaded with the previous version and everything is fine with it

[sleek badger]

what really?? O_O

[violet pewter]

Unlike Dynamic Bones, the root bone of a PhysBone chain is permitted to rotate. It can't translate, though. This can have some consequences with certain setups-- try things out on your own to see how it behaves.

[inner kayak]

if you put a physbone on the hips the entire avatar will wiggle, even with ignore transforms set

was common with dynamic bones to use the head/hips as root

cant do that anymore

[violet pewter]

oh
removed it from my scene and it seems it was that that broke it (at least in unity) aaaaaaah thanks i really wasn't thinking that it could be it

[sleek badger]

gonna try adding a collider to my head to front hairs dont phase into my forehead when running

[violet pewter]

i need to do that too x)

but yea so far i'm enjoying very much the physbones, i never used dynamicbones tho so i can't compare x)

[sleek badger]

phys bones is a lot more in depth

more options

but also more user friendly i feel like

its great

[jovial sedge]

I don't really know how to like, optimize my model's hair for physbones lol

For the time being I just have a component for the start of each thing till I figure something better out

[violet pewter]

yea that what i do

idk any better solution

[inner kayak]

100%

[sleek badger]

hmmm.. xD

[inner kayak]

dynamic bones confused the hell out of me

[jovial sedge]

I have every other part of my model optimized to a science and quite literally notice 0 frame differences with it so far so guess it's not so bad lmao

[inner kayak]

physbone settings make much more sense

[jovial sedge]

I'll still try to tidy whatever I can up later

[ebon arrow]

Hey, do I need to add a special thing to my avatar to make physbones grabbable?

[sleek badger]

and it actually explains what the sliders do

(pretend this is in caps)

And ItS F R E E

[jovial sedge]

make sure allow grabbing is checked for the physbone script then people can grab them

and it's on by default, so as long as you haven't really messed with it you're good chief

[sleek badger]

uh..

[timber jewel]

I would recommend to use max angle for your hair so it doesn't go in your head

instead of a head collider

[sleek badger]

theyre still moving out the way even if i literally make it the size of a pea??

[sleek badger]

i dont wanna restrict the angle though

it looks fine as is

if i had to restrict the angle to where it wouldnt move inside the head itd literally barely move atall

[jovial sedge]

Yeah I'm just waiting for putting a collider on the head to be fixed personally

and I mean, it's only a clientside bug at the moment anyways

[violet pewter]

:o?

[sleek badger]

ok i guess adjusting the collider size during play mode just doesnt do anything

it works now wheni did it outside of that

[sleek badger]

head colliders dont work well? :(

[jovial sedge]

There's some weird issue where head colliders won't stop your hair on your client unless you have the collider visible, but other people see it working fine

[inner kayak]

we need offsets for max angle to make that actually work well
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1181separate-axis-of-max-angle

[jovial sedge]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1181-colliders-on-head-bone-dont-work-correctly-especially-on-quest

the canny post here has a video tied to it showing the issue

it's already tracked so it's hopefully getting fixed eventually

[violet pewter]

saddness, while now it now show good in unity, it's still broken in game ;&;

[sleek badger]

oh ok

[sleek badger]

but like.. it doesnt seem like theres any harm in adding it

[jovial sedge]

No, you probably should add one so it looks fine for other people

plus it's probably getting fixed eventually so might as well make one so you don't have to later :^)

[sleek badger]

yee!

okey ^^

woo!!

https://tenor.com/view/playful-energy-bouncing-play-with-me-excited-gif-14656461

how i feel rn

[timber jewel]

yeah ik, I really hope we will get these, this would make our life so much easier

[jovial sedge]

yeah lack of this is why I'm just using a head collider even if it doesn't work clientside

[sleek badger]

dont mind me just venting my excitement 😂

[jovial sedge]

I want my hair to move freely, even if it'll look a bit off on my side

[inner kayak]

i would probably ditch custom colliders if added

[sleek badger]

yeah!

mine looks great tbh

[timber jewel]

same

[jovial sedge]

I'm happy with mine so far, just need to try and optimize the amount of scripts later lol

[timber jewel]

my floor collider would still stay though xD

needed for may tail :p

[jovial sedge]

also can't people push physbones beyond the angle settings?

[timber jewel]

nope

[jovial sedge]

Oh damn

[inner kayak]

oh i forgot about that

[jovial sedge]

yeah in that case a head collider would be totally irrelevant

[inner kayak]

wish we could collide against world collision

[timber jewel]

actually Phys Bones work quiet well with multiple scrips instead of one, especially for parents with multiple chains , it allows them to be easier spread on multiple threads

[digital crane]

I’m confused on how to set it up on quest

[jovial sedge]

Oh, so it's actually okay to keep my hair's scripts more split up then?

[bright jungle]

See the top of #open-beta-info c:

[violet pewter]

it's what should be doing yea

[timber jewel]

I would say so

[jovial sedge]

Less work for me then, nice

Still going through the absolute NIGHTMARE of getting a skirt to work well

[violet pewter]

Because of the multi-threaded nature of PhysBones, it isn't always the most efficient to put all bones into a single chain. Multiple components allows us to break up the work across threads. However, you should still strive to have fewer components... but it's not as bad to have a few on your avatar as it was with Dynamic Bones.

[timber jewel]

exactly what I was looking for in the docs right now xD

but you were quicker xD

[violet pewter]

hehe

[digital crane]

Still can’t find version

[bright jungle]

If you're on Quest: #open-beta-discussion message

[timber jewel]

Are you on Quest, Steam ore Oculus desktop?

[digital crane]

Quest

2

@timber jewel

[timber jewel]

then you need to do it like this

[digital crane]

Actually oculus

I’m in the app but can’t seem to find versions

[sleek badger]

lookater go 🥺

[violet pewter]

:3

[sleek badger]

i love how 3d programs always make things when being rotated smaller or bigger but always the one i DONT want it to do

like this hair gets way too LONG

bu this bow gets way too SMALL

[jovial sedge]

make sure preserve volume is on for the armature in blender

[wispy herald]

On quest can you go back to live version Bc I can’t it’s stuck on beta

[sleek badger]

oh my god dont even tell me to go back into blender xD

i F E A R

[jovial sedge]

Cope

you have no idea how much I've had to go back and fourth :^)

[sleek badger]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-cat-kitty-crying-sadge-gif-24484563

[jovial sedge]

you will eventually learn making a model for VRC is an endless cycle of suffering through blender and unity

[inner kayak]

what is that

[jovial sedge]

setting found here

[sleek badger]

🥲 👍

[inner kayak]

ive never heard of that setting

huh

[digital crane]

Still lost 🙃

[jovial sedge]

it tries to keep the general shape of an object when you rotate things

helps a LOT for stuff like elbows and knees

[violet pewter]

i hate when i have finished my avatar in unity, nd i realise that something with like the armature is broke, and that i have to redo everything in unity after fixing it in blender dies

[inner kayak]

hmm

does that persist into unity when exporting?

[jovial sedge]

I have no idea honestly

[jovial sedge]

I question that it doesn't sometimes

[sleek badger]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-angry-cat-nope-funny-gif-15842401

[jovial sedge]

but I'm 99% sure it makes a difference

it's good practice to use it anyways

[bright jungle]

sets up avatar
everything works somehow, it's great
one random polygon is weight-painted to the wrong bone, stretching everything into oblivion
mfw

[sleek badger]

ok but um

it doesnt do anything.. xD

literally.. nothing

[inner kayak]

sadly doesn't seem so
https://forum.unity.com/threads/add-blenders-preserve-volume-dual-quaternion-feature-into-unity.1000363/

[digital crane]

So…no help

[bright jungle]

?? you were twice pointed to more detailed instructions lol

<#open-beta-discussion message>

[digital crane]

Yes but when I try and tap on version it doesn’t do anything

[sleek badger]

you dont realize what great news that is to me xD

[bright jungle]

tap the number after version, not the "version" text itself?

[sleek badger]

at least in shortterm

[digital crane]

Still nothing

[sleek badger]

hell yeah for not having to go back into blender cause it wont do shit anyways B)

[jovial sedge]

well shit

guess that means I gotta check over how everything looks without it then :)

[digital crane]

Omg it only works on the phone

Thanks tho

[sleek badger]

hmm..

i dont seem to be able to have her hair stay out of her forehead

but also not be pushed aside when not moving

and this is what its supposed to look like

image above this one is what it looks like resting

and 2 above that what it looks like moving foward

so its pushing the hair away weirdly

but also not keeping it from clipping either

[inner kayak]

can try turning up the immobile setting, but i think that makes it just require more force to move

[timber jewel]

yeah it basically makes it more stiff

[muted bloom]

Isn't that just automatic twist bones? you can add your own twist bones.

[sleek badger]

also changing max angle forsome reason doesnt do anything

on the hair

which her hair wouldnt flipflop like this

something like this would look much better

but i have no idea how youd do that

kinda make it ''squish'' into itself more rather than just kinda.. folding outwards

like this sorta

anyways.. ok wow!

i think she's actually ready

how am i somehow less excited then when i was still working on her xD

im kinda not ready

[jovial sedge]

now comes the dreaded moment where you realize one really annoying mistake ingame

[sleek badger]

yyep xD

[jovial sedge]

and you have to do it all over again

[sleek badger]

oh boy

oh man

[inner kayak]

autofix time

[sleek badger]

...

[violet pewter]

;&;

[sleek badger]

excuse me

what

#3d-modeling

i um

[inner kayak]

press autofix

[violet pewter]

i still need to find the cause of why my viewpoint if fuckedup

[sleek badger]

how many polygons?

[inner kayak]

for read/write

[inner kayak]

click that

[sleek badger]

i am

theeere we go

nice

why did it have so many polys? xD

[inner kayak]

it cant read the poly count without that setting, so it displays the max amount of polygons it could read

[sleek badger]

er.. okey

what does this mean

[inner kayak]

poiyomi locks materials on upload

for optimization and filesize

[jovial sedge]

Nothing important, just hit ok and let it run

[sleek badger]

um

okay

[inner kayak]

itll take a bit

[inner kayak]

:pat:

annoys me how the official vrchat discord server doesnt have a headpat emote

.-.

[jovial sedge]

too dangerous of a crowd to have

[inner kayak]

[sleek badger]

what annoys me is that you cant use any external emojis or stickers atall

[inner kayak]

i think you can if you boost the server..?

not sure

[jovial sedge]

most bigger servers tend to make that stuff hard to get or locked out entirely because people can't be trusted with the permission

[bright jungle]

if you boost you can - you can also use external emojis in #general-media

if you're nitro boosted but not boosting the server, you can still use stickers too iirc

[inner kayak]

oh

you can

[sleek badger]

lmao why does she start walking like that

she like.. throws her head back

and foward

[bright jungle]

don't put physbones on humanoid bones

iirc you have a physbone component on the head, don't do that - instead have a physbone component per chain of bones

that also allows that chain to be multithreaded better, i.e handled more evenly on the CPU

[sleek badger]

and sneaking backwards does...... this.... to the hair.....??

[sleek badger]

i have it on the head cause thats what all the hair is connected to

how else would i even do that

[jovial sedge]

Yeeeah you can't do that

[sleek badger]

i literally wrote out how i was going to do that

and noone stopped me

[bright jungle]

like I said, put the physbone components on the hair bones, not the head

[bright jungle]

they did

[jovial sedge]

I wasn't there or I would've lol

you can just copy the component and paste it on the start of each the hair bones

[sleek badger]

but the head applies it to all the hair automatically

how else do i do that??

[bright jungle]

i've..said it twice now

[sleek badger]

every single hair???

[bright jungle]

yes

[sleek badger]

individually?

[jovial sedge]

Yeah, tis what I did

[sleek badger]

ughhh thats some fknbullshit

[bright jungle]

the root bone of the hair, not every bone ofc

unless you have 40 hair bones like a lunatic, that shouldn't be much of an issue lol

[jovial sedge]

the performance rate thing will scream at you for it like "nooo you have too many components!!!" but it's a minimal performance impact at best

and apparently because multithreading it's actually better

[bright jungle]

Because of the multi-threaded nature of PhysBones, it isn't always the most efficient to put all bones into a single chain. Multiple components allows us to break up the work across threads. However, you should still strive to have fewer components... but it's not as bad to have a few on your avatar as it was with Dynamic Bones.

[jovial sedge]

I have 17 scripts just because my hair but trust me, doing it individually is fine :^)

[bright jungle]

Putting physbones on humanoid bones can cause other issues, anyhow

i.e tracking issues

[violet pewter]

oh and copying pasting the compement should be good enough most of that time for (hair of same lenght)

[sleek badger]

interesting.. xD

this isnt the avatar btw just vrchat being vrchat)

just found it funny xD)

[jovial sedge]

Yeah I'd be forced to do most of mine separate anyways because the hair is like three different things

[sleek badger]

aghhh the hair clipping is so annoying and i have no idea how to remove it

[bright jungle]

limit angle

[jovial sedge]

as I told you, it's a clientside bug that the collider won't work

either you have to limit the angle, do some really gimmicky stuff in Unity, or wait for a fix

[sleek badger]

doesnt do anything

[bright jungle]

it def does for me

[sleek badger]

how do i know which is the root?

[bright jungle]

those are the roots

by root I mean the first bone in the chain

[sleek badger]

oh!

ok

[bright jungle]

bone 1 (root)
v
bone 2
v
bone 3

[violet pewter]

and yea you can just copy the compenent of the first after yours tweaks and paste as new on each others (with just needing to edit maybe root lenght and root bones to the news root hair)

[sleek badger]

i mean hey

at least i can edit each hair part individually

thats actually pretty good

i can heavily restrict the front hair then

so it doesnt clip

[jovial sedge]

Yeah, it's nice to be able to fine tune each little piece

[sleek badger]

but the rest will still move fine

ive been wanting to make her lil top curl a bit more springy anyways

[weak nest]

Anyone else having weird tracking issues in the beta for avatar dynamics?

Things like hands misaligning in full body, and locomotion animations getting all weird?

[violet pewter]

it's very likely due to physbone root set on a humanoid bone

like the head or the hip

[weak nest]

Does exclusions work differently with physbones as opposed to dynamic bones?

I set my exclusions like i normally do with dynamic bones

[violet pewter]

apparently the exclusion of humanoid bones is abit buggy x)

[weak nest]

I had also noticed it with other avatars not built with physbones sadly 😔

I may hop on again later and try some of the ones in the testing hub to make sure its not some setting i have breaking it

🙏

[violet pewter]

no reason your ingame settings would break the physbones?

[violet pewter]

yea they are working so the autoconverter work around this issue better ^^'

[sleek badger]

downwards movement

fowards movement

-_-

i wish you could like restrict the movement on specific axis

cause its barely moving up and down BUT its still clipping into the forehead like no tomorrow

[jovial sedge]

Yeah that's like, the second highest most requested thing right now for the beta

we might see it soon, who knows 👀

[sleek badger]

also thats with immobile literally on 0.9

[verbal scaffold]

So my physbones work fine in unity but disappear in game.

[jovial sedge]

immobile ups the amount of movement required for the hair to move pretty sure

[sleek badger]

so the only possible way to stop this dumb hair from clipping would be to literally glue it to her forehead

[bright jungle]

Make sure you're opted in to the beta - #open-beta-info

[jovial sedge]

so once the hair does start moving it'll still clip

[verbal scaffold]

did it

[sleek badger]

oh weird..

[grizzled lark]

Have you tried the 'freeze axis' option?

[sleek badger]

even with immobile on full it still moves when moved backwards

[sleek badger]

oo?

[sleek badger]

how does that even work ?-?

[jovial sedge]

Makes it so it can only move two ways, basically

you can use it then set the angle to make it so the hair can only go left/right

[grizzled lark]

It's good for hair.

[jovial sedge]

it's a good bandaid fix to stop the hair from going through the head, but limits how free it is of course

I personally don't use it but you might wanna lol

[sleek badger]

WHAT

ARE you a WIZARD?

why does it just work perfectyl?????

why didnt anyone tell me this sooner???

literally

it moved back

it moves side to side

[timber jewel]

because that's how it's supposed to work

xD

[grizzled lark]

It was a feature in dynamic bones as well.

[sleek badger]

it moves everywhere but where the forehead is

the heckkk

this is perfect

thank you!!

[timber jewel]

have you ever looked at the phys bone documentation? xD

cause it's right there xD

[clear wharf]

Is it intentional that physbones ignore non terminating bones? the whole middle section of bones in my ears are being totally ignored

whereas old dynamic bones still counted non terminating bones

[violet pewter]

no? it actually ignore the terminating bone but not the others ( you need to set an endpoint position for it tho)

[bright jungle]

:gag:

[clear wharf]

cry, I just want my ears to be floppy

[sleek badger]

but booba aint a body bone right?

[clear wharf]

endpoint? i shouldn't need one as these bones already have leaf bones

[violet pewter]

x)
shhhhh

[sleek badger]

the booba bone

putting this here for reference dont mind me

[verbal scaffold]

anybody else's phys bone work fine in unity but are frozen in-game?

[violet pewter]

is your whole avatar frozen or only the physbones ?

[verbal scaffold]

it looks as if it has no dynamic/phys bones attached

even though it's function and smooth in unity. in-game, the avatar overlay option does not show up, nor does the new menu options appear

[violet pewter]

you dont have the new menu at all?

you are sure you are on the open beta

[verbal scaffold]

no new menu, I clicked the link in #open-beta-info and connected my account

[violet pewter]

oh you're on quest?

#open-beta-discussion message

be sure to follow this

[verbal scaffold]

I'm on pc.

[sleek badger]

uh

theres something wrong with the tail

but idk what

[jovial sedge]

You must've painted on the main body while you had the tail selected

[violet pewter]

ah then what link you're talking about?

ah oculus vrchat ig?

[verbal scaffold]

the first post in #open-beta-info

[violet pewter]

ig should be the same than for the quest

just clickinf the link wont do anything

[verbal scaffold]

i run on steam

[sleek badger]

what do you mean?

weight painting?

[violet pewter]

ah then clicking that link really do nothing, that for the one using the oculus version kf it xD

on the properties of the game in steam just go to beta and enable the open beta

[verbal scaffold]

yep, found it, updating to beta now

[sleek badger]

@jovial sedge

[verbal scaffold]

I'm assuming only other beta users will see phys bone

[violet pewter]

this open beta isn't network compatible with the live

[stiff acorn]

Yes.

[sleek badger]

i think so

[violet pewter]

so you just can't join ur friend at all if they are on the live

[sleek badger]

um.. @jovial sedge ?

up and dissapeared 🥲

well i checked the weight painting and nothing seems off so i have no idea what the problem is

[jovial sedge]

if the tail bones have nothing connecting to the torso then maybe the torso bone itself has some paint on the tail?

[sleek badger]

i mean theyre parented to it if thats what you mean

the bones arent just completely disconnected

well.

not the torso

[jovial sedge]

No I mean like

[sleek badger]

the hips

[jovial sedge]

make sure the spine bones don't somehow have an effect on the tail

[sleek badger]

this is the torso bone

no weight painting on the tail there

[jovial sedge]

no idea what could be the problem then

[sleek badger]

:(

wait so

if everyone has automatic grab controllers on their hands

can everyone grab eachothers hands? or is i guess grabbable and posable turned off my default?

[jovial sedge]

It's a sphere made to let you grab physbones, I don't think you can really grab someone else's hand unless you do something yourself

[verbal scaffold]

if u put phys bone on it eh

[jovial sedge]

but pretty sure putting a physbone on your hand will make it horribly glitchy

[verbal scaffold]

maybe make a toggle to enable handshake

[sleek badger]

you mean it should be a setting?

or is it a thing

[lime yarrow]

The hand grabbing thing requires constraints and three sets of arm bones

[verbal scaffold]

you'd have to do custom hand colliders, so it excludes itself

[lime yarrow]

So it is something you need to set up on your own end

[sleek badger]

aw :(

itd be nice to be able to grab eachothers hands in vrchat easily

[lime yarrow]

And will not work on quest

[sleek badger]

huh?

[verbal scaffold]

i can already do handshakes tho

[sleek badger]

i thought physbones do work on quest?

[lime yarrow]

Yes but constraints don't

And you need constraints to do the hand grabbing thing

Because you're not actually grabbing the real arm

You're grabbing a copy of the arm bones and then the arm gets constrained to the copy while you grab it

It's complicated

[sleek badger]

so im trying to do this so the bow doesnt clip into the chest but uhh-