avatar-rigging

[nocturne quiver]

adieu!

[placid trail]

I already had a dream about rigging avatars Jesus Christ

Fastest dream ever

[cerulean temple]

sometimes i have a hard time sleeping cause ill think about the solution to my problem

and then i try it and it doesn't work

[nocturne quiver]

so i figured everything out

it's basically completely rigged except for one damn thing 😭

if i put the hand out and bring it towards me a little bit with the wrist pointed up it deforms pretty bad and i cant figure out why

[placid trail]

That’s tough

[nocturne quiver]

😭

[nocturne quiver]

haven't tried this out yet but in case anyone needs some help with weight painting: https://youtu.be/rG82fogtuCg?si=XhMJ-6yCmI4YO3mR

[placid trail]

I’ll check it out

[placid trail]

That’s an excellent video

[nocturne quiver]

it really is

also ithink i fixed my problem, it didnt actually have anything to do with weightpainting lol

i'll have to check in vr later, but basically i just moved the bones around in the humanoid rig settings in unity

[placid trail]

I wonder

I have like 350 bones

Is that normal

[nocturne quiver]

ummm i just closed blender for now but i think so

i had around 250 but the avatar doesnt have anything that needs dynamics

[placid trail]

The video had the dude with just like 12 or something

[nocturne quiver]

im not sure why that is tbh

that doesnt seem normal lol

it might be because he's not rigging for vrchat

[placid trail]

Gotcha

[placid trail]

What’s the separate function again?

For armature

I wanna delete some unwanted armature pretty much

[nocturne quiver]

just p

[placid trail]

Ok

[river ingot]

You could do some sculpting on it, and add more to the left side of that hand on the bottom maybe. unless its bent backwards towards the wrist, then it could be like a weightpainting issue. But you may need to add more polygons to it to make it bend perfectly.

[astral warren]

Does anyone know why some avatars have ther feet IK shuffle around when they stop walking and some do not? I've ruled it down to bones, not controllers

[placid trail]

I can’t seem to click on any of the individual bones when I weight paint. I do the ctrl+left click, but it doesn’t seem to select anything

[river ingot]

sounds more like an animation, and how long it plays for during locomotion and idle, which is usually dropped into the avatar descriptor unless u leave it as default. SDK has default versions of it in its folders u can modify

[astral warren]

it's not an animation, i uploaded it with no custom playable layers

[river ingot]

then its a default animation problem possibly.

[astral warren]

I've ruled out animations, it's not animations, because another avatar with the default animation stack doesn't do this.

[modern crystal]

thanks for the parenting tutorial! Itll be very useful in the future, but it still doesn’t help the link issue, I want both ends close to each other link without one bone having to look off

[nocturne quiver]

when you're weight painting you're gonna click through the different vertex groups in this tab to see where all the weights have been assigned, from what i can tell the bones don't really matter much unless you're selecting them to auto assign, in which case i just go in and shift click everything in the hierarchy on the right

[river ingot]

nvm, I went through all the proxies, theres the speed you can multiply it by how fast he's walking but the duration would be on another animation thats not listed in sdk where I'm used to finding the proxies. I checked the controllers and couldnt find "walk" which is one of the proxies, or "run" or "strafe' so it may be on another controller folder I haven't gotten into yet, or they wouldn't exist.

[placid trail]

Ight. I’ll check it out in the morrow

Or I’ll catch myself playing BG3

[pale pumice]

Got an armature modifier on the mesh you've selected?

oh damn I was scrolled up, sorry.

[mental hamlet]

Is there any way to shorten the physbone?

when I change the endpoint it just creates a new thing

[pale pumice]

It can only go as short as the actual bone is

[river ingot]

In blender, you can modify the bones length.

You can adjust the radius in unity..

[mental hamlet]

I see! thank you

[nocturne quiver]

update: i finally fixed the hands just now!!!

[mental hamlet]

I still need help with this if anyone can enlighten me in some way. I shortened the bones in Blender, they are now so short that they don't even leave the model. But imported in unity nothing changed? They are still super long for no reason
I understand correctly that the white line+radius are the grabbable parts in the game? So technically players can grab the "air" around my avatar if I don't shorten them no?

[fervent mantle]

did you turn off leaf bones in blender

[mental hamlet]

no, I tried turning them off but then those specific bones won't animate anymore

the white line doesn't even appear if I uncheck it

[fervent mantle]

well you need at least two bones in a chain to add physbones

so i would either subdivide the ones you have or add a small bone at the root and reparent

that way you can turn off leaf bones and still have enough to animate

[mental hamlet]

Alright I will give that a try, thanks alot!

[robust crescent]

add tiny endlength its a free 'bone' to move stuff , when its just one (doesnt count as a transform)

way easier to find a radius that fits - then adding one blender

only one bone ends at the green arrow / middle ish of whatever its going to move

[mental hamlet]

I see! I will try both things and see what I prefer, but I still have two questions.
So the white lines (bones and radius) are the interactive parts in the game? And also couldn't I just add a physbone component to the chest bone and just put the Multi Child Type on ignore and add the rest to "Ignore Transforms" ?

[steady hinge]

is there any way to fix this? i'd like to keep the skeleton connected

[limber tulip]

Looks like the wrist is also weighted to the whole arm, try removing that influence

[steady hinge]

should i just make it the bottom half?

[steady hinge]

i tried just using the bottomw half, and now its a whole different kinda weird

ok so i found out the weight paint was suuuuper weird but i fixed the right side and it still looks strange

i was kinda trying to go for like a minecraft feel where it bends in the middle

could it be that i should lower the weight paint overall? cuz right now its one on the joints

if anyone wants to take a look at it,

[hasty cloud]

i dont know why but when i try configuring the humanoid rig of my custom avatar in unity, it automatically deforms it. I remember when it didn't do that before, so idk if i did something wrong, or if i pressed something, but it just deforms it before i do anything

the first pic is the actual model, the second pic is right after i press "configure" in the rig tab

[arctic sundial]

Well, the bones dont seem assigned right

It tries to display bones where they theoretically go

[hasty cloud]

yeah but even then, is it supposed to deform it like so?

[arctic sundial]

Assign the bones correctly into the slot

[balmy delta]

there is no vertices that are actually able to bend

[hasty cloud]

i tried before, i didnt do all the bones, but the ones i assigned didnt have effect at all

[arctic sundial]

Remember this is a guessing preview

Preview. Not how itll be in scene

[hasty cloud]

i see

[steady hinge]

i assume this is also for the legs because they are static in vr chat, at this point i wouldn't even mind if it was like that, im just trying to fix the damn arms

[balmy delta]

you would need extra vertices in the middle of the limb so it can actually bend there because rn all that arm is is just a solid square

[steady hinge]

alright, i'll try and do research on how to add verticies, since the models directly imported from roblox, thanks!

[balmy delta]

you can just import the r15 version of the body

[arctic sundial]

loop cut

[steady hinge]

the problem i had with that was it only made one dot

for some reason it didn't go around the arm

[arctic sundial]

Thats due to the weird topology

Try removing the triangular edges first so you have squares on all sides

Worst case go into xray mode, view straight and cut with knife (a for horizontal guide)

[balmy delta]

to be fair
roblox models are incredibly awful when it comes to an actual usable mesh

[quiet fern]

also did you got rid of extra vertices while importing to blender? because there are some (which I noticed after a while)

[balmy delta]

none of the vertices are actually connected

[arctic sundial]

Ew

[steady hinge]

yeah i thought this would be super easy

[balmy delta]

no

[steady hinge]

but clearly not

[balmy delta]

every roblox model with bendable limbs use a mesh that was made from scratch

[steady hinge]

because currently, my only other option is a super buggy, unoptimized, mess that is an mmd model

like, suuuuuper bad

[balmy delta]

the best you can do is make a very jank humanoid rig with no bendable limbs

[steady hinge]

i mean im fine with that

at least for my first time doing this

[robust crescent]

2 cubes, merge at middle , it can now bend..somewhat (can remove the face that faces eachother, explaining in text bleh)

[balmy delta]

roblox meshes are broken into a bunch of random pieces because the vertices arent connected together so this wouldnt work too well either

[steady hinge]

yeah i wish there was an actual tutorial that wasn't just "Steal this mmd model and put your stuff over it!"

[quiet fern]

@steady hinge If you're fine with replacing body mesh with mine I can send you the files

extra vertices are deleted & edges are fixed

i forgot that the vertex groups are kinda messed up tho while I was tryin to make the rig humanoid ._.

[steady hinge]

yeah like i just wanted it to be semi simple

minecraft has it down with two optimized models that you just replace the skin for

[quiet fern]

welp, at least the plugin makes some good attempt at exporting r6 & r15

[steady hinge]

yeah, ig thats true

god i don't even know how to do the dege cutting jesus christ this is the second time i've had to scrap an entire model

😓

[quiet fern]

I've send you files on dm @steady hinge hope that'll help with next attempt

[queen granite]

should i mention this here too? #avatar-quest message

since this is about rigging and bones i'm not sure

[faint cypress]

Does anyone have the humanoid rig template armature?

[golden kernel]

I'm curious about the same thing, I didn't see an updated optimal rig for fbt

[steady hinge]

im gonna semi try to salvage this, but how do i make a new dot on here?>

[robust crescent]

you can always just grab it from mixamo , its pretty proportioned - i use it often to check how bad some of the avatars are X / Y bot , it works with fbt easy , otherwise this one is used often in here have no issues with that one either

mostly to avoid bendy legs gotto straighten em

[golden kernel]

This is super helpful, thank you so much!

[steady hinge]

Sorry, i meant a vertice

cuz im trying to get rid of these damn lines, but idk how

[robust crescent]

tab toggle edit / object mode, if you accidentally made a hole you can use fill - hit f after selecting (uv might be wierd)

[steady hinge]

but that still makes the double triangle?

like how do i remove the edge?

[slow trout]

have you tried just dissolving the edge

in edit mode click the edge dot or face you want to dissolve, right click then select dissolve

[steady hinge]

it worked for a lotta the edges, except for the top for some reason!

[steady hinge]

i tried just uploading it, and the body and legs work, but the arms just...?

[slow trout]

have you tried converting tris to quads as well?

can just click (alt J) in edit mode

[slow trout]

is probably a bone issue, either redo them or check to see if the bones are parented right and also rotated right

And ik It's a bit harsh to say, but if you don't know know how to do that just look it up lol, can get most answers that way, I like this server tho since there's always little issues that can be hard to look up the answer for, but my best form of advice for avi editing and making, is try just looking up the issue first cause A, you might learn some cool new thing's, and B there tends to be videos on the common issue you may have so a visual guide can help a lot

I'm just saying this in hopes it helps ya in future issues

tis the thing I do lol

[patent ether]

How should I rig my model because of the neck? ( The model isn't finished btw but i just wanna know what i should do for when it's finished )

[hasty cloud]

does unity automatically assign weights to the rigged model or does it use the weight painting data of blender

[brazen island]

2nd ofc.

[balmy delta]

the 90 degree joint behind the head is also the head

[patent ether]

ah ok thanks

[steady hinge]

yeah the only issue i run into, is looking up what i need because im still learning the terms but im trying to watch more videos

after semi just going the lazy route, the only real issue i have now is the head body moves way farther back then the head for some reason

[slow trout]

check out this channel

https://www.youtube.com/@RainhetChaneru/videos

she makes really helpful new user vids for just getting started

[slow trout]

can either be two things, your camera pov isn't set up right, or the head mesh isn't weight painted properly

[steady hinge]

yeah i think i just need to mess with the pov because the head looks fine?

[slow trout]

glad I was able to help a little lol

[steady hinge]

yeah idk i've been messing with the view pov with barely any luck

[river ingot]

Looks okay to me. The arms are a little far from the body is hte only thing i see wrong with it..

[balmy delta]

Considering the fact none of it can actually bend I see nothing wrong with it

[river ingot]

pov..you could lower the dot to where the nose would be, or..below he glasses.

[fading verge]

Is there a smart way to fix tears like this in Blender?

[brazen island]

merge, fill, merge by distance

[fading verge]

I was just about to comment that I got it, but thank you for the help anyway. Hopefully someone else gets help from this aswell!

[silent fulcrum]

Should my models be in A pose or T pose, which is better to use?

[hasty cloud]

t-pose 100%

[silent fulcrum]

thanks

[brazen island]

@silent fulcrum a pose better for clothes modelling

[silent fulcrum]

??? Ok so, What is T pose going to be used for? Also i have to use T pose for clothing because of the addon I'm using.

[hasty cloud]

i said tpose since vrchat requires it for like trackings and stuff, but a pose would be better for clothing

[silent fulcrum]

Ok, that helps thanks!

[hasty cloud]

np

[brazen island]

@silent fulcrum an A pose considered now more or less a standard for modelling stuff, so rigging is done in A pose as well since you cant change poses until the model is rigged🤔. unity/vrc does not require tpose, it can just enforce it, but A posed avatar can be uploaded just fine.

[silent fulcrum]

Ok

[brazen island]

then again, a pose is better for cloth, so if its body made separately, body can be made and rigged first in t pose which is easier to work with, then reposed to an a to make cloth. so anything goes.

[silent fulcrum]

LOL ya'll killing me.

[pale pumice]

A pose is such a pain

[outer lance]

t pose is so much easier for weight painting imo

[hasty cloud]

agreed

however, a pose is better for shoulder weight painting tbh

[languid zealot]

can anyone tell me the naming for a vrchat humanoid rig's hand bones? I'm having some trouble with only the index finger being bendable in gestures and my only guess is the naming

[balmy delta]

The names dont entirely matter

Since in unity you put the bones in the slots when changing to humanoid rig

[languid zealot]

i've never seen any slots 😦

i import the rig, set it to humanoid, and nothing else appears ui-wise

[languid zealot]

.

[balmy delta]

You click configure

[languid zealot]

oh my god thank you

[balmy delta]

Which asks you to save if you havent already
Then opens a menu for you to edit

[humble cedar]

Hi, I have an issue with the rotation constraint used to create twist bones in the forearm. In the video, you can see the problem: it's locked on the Y-axis, but when moved, it also rotates and breaks when raising or lowering the hand. It works well in Blender applying the rotation constraint with the same parameters. I've tried searching forums, but I haven't found much information. Does anyone know how to fix this?

[slow trout]

why are you using a rotation constraint on the hand? are you wanting more than one arm/hand kind of avatar?

[slow trout]

[slow trout]

if not then just use a normal bone set up going from left arm-left elbow-left wrist and then each finger bone named respectfully

[river ingot]

Adjust the numbers accordingly for the hand constraints, they work great via unity too.

[weary kettle]

(not my picture)

hi ive been tryihng to find

where this is for the past 10 min or so

and i cant find this page at all

[brazen island]

@weary kettle select model in assets - import settings (inspector, right panel) - rig - humanoid - configure

[weary kettle]

thanks

[weary kettle]

mmh i came back to this later because i was busy with other things. but i dont see any of that in the inspector panel

[brazen island]

#avatar-rigging message

[weary kettle]

yeah. i dont see that

this is what my inspector tabs look like

[brazen island]

thats prefab, not fbx model

model is somewhere inside

[weary kettle]

my model was never fbx to begin with

trying to make it fbx was just too complicated

my guess is the non prefab version is probaly in one of my folders so ill look this

[hasty cloud]

you know you can look up a tutorial on youtube...

[weary kettle]

thanks for the non useful response. what do you think i did for so long before asking. Im not dumb. i asked here because nothing the videos showed appeared on my screen

thats logic enough

when your research amounts to nothing. you ask others

[hasty cloud]

ur struggling on how to make a file fbx, just convert it or export it as an fbx

also sorry

[hasty cloud]

could be a rigging issue, im not the best at explaining it tho...

[hasty cloud]

i think i figured out why, the bones for your forearms r too long

The elbow joint isn't bending at the right spot, you can tell from your model that the joint is bending a bit higher into the upper arm

[loud barn]

how would i go about rigging an avatar with four arms? I thought about parenting the main arms to the bottom arms but it ends up weighting oddly in pose mode, i want the main arms to move with the lower, any ideas what i might be doing wrong? I tried using both connected and offset but when i move the forearm bone it breaks the lower arms

[split wing]

first time working with rigging anything really, just working with a few tutorials and a dream, so would this work? or have i missed something
sure hope i didn't (probably has)

[trim nexus]

why are the legs all twisty

untwist

[brazen island]

@loud barn in unity you use rotation constraints on each and every bone from one set to another. pc only.

[loud barn]

thank you!

[river ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ox2x9wM3hc

[mental hamlet]

hey, if I put two chest colliders like this only 1 of the 2 capsules shows up when I paste them as Collider into my hair

did I do something wrong?

I thought when I make an empty game object under the Chest and put these two collider components they should work as one

[brazen island]

just make two objects. physbone references the object itself and grabs the first fitting component on it, my guess

[mental hamlet]

yeah I can make two objects but then they count as 2 colliders, and I try to not go over 8 since I want my avatar to be rated green still

but if there is no other way then I have to I guess!

[brazen island]

i mean two colliders is two colliders, its two object it needs to count collision with. if it was possible to evade thatd be a bug🤷‍♂️

[mental hamlet]

yeah for some reason I thought it could kinda work like the physbone itself where it has so many objects all in one if that makes sense

but okay thanks for the explanation!

[wise brook]

Im having an issue In game where if i move my avis head her chest moves as well how do i fix that?

[whole furnace]

Is there something about physbones that could cause the wrong parts of the mesh to move? Because I've double checked all my weight paints and everything is correct in blender.

[split wing]

okay so
after some messing around this HOPEFULLY looks good
but how do i unnasign those hair bones from being incorrectly connected to stuff like the jaw and eyes (and what to i do to impliment the physbones for that hair

[river ingot]

that would be weightpaintings fault

[river ingot]

weightpainting

[split wing]

anyone know why my arms are doing this?

[azure cradle]

Help?

[arctic sundial]

Whats unclear?

[azure cradle]

in the rigging everything looks normal

I converted a pmx model to fbx

I don't f see it

sorry if it's japanese I'm also pissed why is it in japanese

[arctic sundial]

Aside from the fact that i cant read japanese, what about the neck?

[azure cradle]

that's the neck

[arctic sundial]

Hit apply AND re-dragged the fbx into your scene if you changed anything there?

[azure cradle]

alright

still the same

[robust crescent]

This fbx need to go back to blender , so many dummy bones names all wierd (cats can translate em)

[arctic sundial]

End end end

I just saw that as well

[azure cradle]

how?

I don't know too much the Cats

[robust crescent]

probably some tutorial out there , need blender+cats version that works with whatever blender you going to use , import pmx or fbx into it, hit translate, 'fix' will remove all useless bones (rare cases it wont like it , not seen a pmx fail with it)

[azure cradle]

not sure if it did the right thing

help ;~;

[arctic sundial]

Jesus christ xD

[azure cradle]

sssssssssshhhhhhhhhh

I don't know anything much in Blender

[robust crescent]

pmxs like to have wierd bones straight up in blender, fix should remove em (blender 4.0 + cats likely fail) these are all useless

[arctic sundial]

I cant even tell you what caused all your bones to make babies

I decimate manually so ye

Why does it have those though if theyre useless

[azure cradle]

does 3.6.2 Blender works?

[arctic sundial]

I use 3.6 with the dev version of cats, that works

[azure cradle]

aww come on

[arctic sundial]

https://github.com/absolute-quantum/cats-blender-plugin/archive/refs/heads/development.zip

[azure cradle]

I swear today I'm not lucky

[arctic sundial]

Cats is not ready for blender 4

[azure cradle]

what do i check/uncheck here

[arctic sundial]

Looks alright as is. I assume the funky bones are zero weights bones

Maybe not join meshes

Your pick tho

[azure cradle]

I prefer not join meshes

[arctic sundial]

Connect bones could also give you a meh-moment

[azure cradle]

what's next?

[arctic sundial]

Check the bone hierarchy to make sure you wont get the same issue as before

Then export

[somber cliff]

Can somebody help? I'm trying to attach this vroid tail to the hips of my character (it is originally connected to the head) but when I uploaded it to vrc, it still registered as being attached to his head. I don't think I did this right, in the picture I moved the tail to be under the hips...

I feel like I'm missing something.

[azure cradle]

It's fine now

but the thing is I don't know what I put in the viseme

even tho it's already translated

[robust crescent]

cats default when translated - then just create visemes , in unity set it default then auto detect it should input them all

before

after

(something like that, older cats/manually have different name like vrc.v_xxx)

[split wing]

so i think everything's mostly ready, but how do i get hair physbones set up? new to the whole rigging thing, so be patient with me

[gray cave]

yall how do i fix this lol
im trying to weight paint fix the mesh issues but this happened, the armature is symmetrized properly but when i use it to rotate the mesh's arms, the mesh moves both arms from the same point. the mesh has a mirror modifier on it too, so im just more confused as to why it's doing this

nvm i think it just mapped the weight paint mirror weirdly, it fixes itself if i start adjusting the weight paint on the right side

[gray cave]

ok new question : will a 4-fingered hand still work with finger tracking? or will this be very buggy

[river ingot]

I think someone said you could have 3 earlier.

[river ingot]

Looks like you have the left shoulder bone weighed to the left upper arm, AND right upper arm. That's the cause of that. The right lower arm/hand is probably weighed to something besides the right lower arm bone and tarsels etc. If you run through the vertic bone list on the right then it'll usually light up the vertices that are weighed to each bone as you go down the list. That will reveal what is messing up the right arm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd1NWOILnLw

That might help u speed up a bit.

[gray cave]

thank you very much this is all very useful info :0 appreciate it

[river ingot]

When you click on your avatar,

Click on add component, then type in phys bone and it'll show up..

[split wing]

the mesh itself in the scene or in the asset viewer?

[river ingot]

I usually click on the mesh in the scene and it'll pull this up. Theres also the heirarchy which should do the same thing

[split wing]

alright, thanks, i'm not at my pc rn but i'll test when i get back

[half stirrup]

I think you're better off looking for a tutorial but tldr:

Look for the hair root in your avatar hierarchy, click on it and in the inspector add component, pshy bone and from there you mess around with the settings. That's the simolest way

[azure cradle]

Thanks

[spark pollen]

.

[mental hamlet]

My model had no hip bone for some reason so I made my own, is there an easy way to apply weightpainting to only a specific bone?

everything else is already weightpainted

[lost remnant]

can anyone help me with rigging im new to making avatars and i cant understand rigging

[upper yoke]

Has anyone made a guide or example for setting up FinalIK for digitigrade legs? (I've been fiddling with the stubbed version it for a few hours and haven't figured it out 😅 )

[hollow quartz]

That's usually how weightpainting works. Select the armature, then the geometry, then go to weight painting mode. Select the hip bone and paint the area that would normally be controlled by the hips

[hollow quartz]

a lot of things would be parented to a hip bone. I'm surprised your model didnt have one? Are you sure it wasn't super small?

did you do all the parenting?

[pale pumice]

Ooh I'm very curious if someone's made that work too. I'd bet you'd need the full version to do it though.

[mental hamlet]

hey, Yeah I painted it myself but I wanted to know how to let Blender paint it automatically? I am sure I saw it somewhere in a video but I cannot find it anymore and the info on the internet just tells me how to do it for all the bones but not specific ones. And yeah the rig was super tiny

[hollow quartz]

You could paint with automatic weights but honestly you'd need to edit it yourself anyways

[crimson kernel]

What am I supposed to do if their are no shoulders on a rig

because uhh looks fine but nope..

[mental hamlet]

that's fine, I wanted to see how much different it would be compared to my own weightpaint. Do you know how to do that for a specific bone?

[crimson kernel]

I don't know what it wants from me T^T

[fervent mantle]

you need shoulders, which you'll have to add and weight paint in blender

[river ingot]

extend a bone from upper arm towards neck, and name it shoulder heh..

in blender

[fervent mantle]

☝️

[crimson kernel]

tysm

[balmy delta]

You dont necessarily need to weight paint

[fervent mantle]

I guess, its just gonna make your arm movement fucky if you lift your arms

[balmy delta]

Not entirely

[fervent mantle]

They definitely help make for better movement

[balmy delta]

Ye

[upper yoke]

I sorta got it working. the tracking isn't 1:1 with the planti foot (the cubes), but I've also got more default looking tracking on other leg, and might be able to make it toggleable for FBT users. I'm using LimbIK component, which only has 3 bone slots and other IK components (FABRIK and CCD) can do an unlimited number of bones, but don't have roll control and require setting up rotation limits (which are going to be even harder to figure out without the editor gui :/ ). But to get the calf to bend, I'm copying rotations from the planti skeleton (I might try an aim constraint)

[pale pumice]

I need to download this and slow-mo it

huh this is actually pretty decent. there's a few parts where the joints move too far (e.g. knee when running) but overall it's good

huh it lags a little, is that normal with using FIK?

[lost remnant]

almost done

[river ingot]

you can put constraints on the bone movements in the rigging section

[upper yoke]

I haven't tried that yet because the problem is the digi bones actually moving too far, not the planti ones, and the digibones don't move in the mechanim avatar editor.

[river ingot]

If you put constraints into the fbx via blender, then import to unity, they won't import with the fbx Ive heard. Your using some items I've never heard of before on here so your on a higher level than the average creator on here. There is one person who I know is college educated enough to answer such a question, he may be on another section on this channel, Sacred. He hasnt been on this channel lately but he's still around somewhere.

[keen fulcrum]

anyone know how to fix keyframing rotation on humanoid rig is not supported?

[river ingot]

I had trouble with that too, and figured it out this year. The best trick is to put constraints on the rigging for the shoulder so they don't go too far down, and too far up. If you move your arm, you can tell how far up and down you can move your arm and modify the numbers accordingly.

[upper yoke]

Yeah, Blender's constraints & Unity's don't have a lot of overlap. Even Blender's rotation, position, scale, and look at constraints behave really differently. I'm just setting up the constraints in Unity for this.

[pale pumice]

yeah but only the humanoid ones, which isn't what looks like it moves too much

Blender's constraints are really nice. but they wont' go into Unity, where all you get is really basic stuff, unfortunately.

[fervent mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/rogered-gif-10809167

[lost remnant]

roger roger

[tender garden]

hey , ive been trying to rig this clothing asset so i can put it on my avatar but the bones from the arms keep affecting parts of the cloak near the chest, does anyone know how to fix that?

[turbid zodiac]

You'll need to do some weight painting! Have you done it before?

[tender garden]

nope , this is my first time rigging anything

i managed to get it to only attach to the right parts now but now physbones break it completely

[turbid zodiac]

Usually when you rig something, you'll have automatic weights set based on how far it is from the bones

Weight painting is just refining what's been done

[tender garden]

yea i used parent with envelope weights

[turbid zodiac]

Expect pain and confusion throughout the process, but there are lots of guides that can help get the basics down

I'm still learning this, it can sometimes be fun but this is definitely my least favorite part of modeling

[tender garden]

yea my brain is already having a stroke

nothing in my thousand hours of unity could have prepared me for this .-.

[turbid zodiac]

Lmao get ready to spend hours refining the weight painting

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/sculpt_paint/weight_paint/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCWZr-It1bE

The blender documentation's good to look at as well

[tender garden]

oh god this is gonna be awful lmao

[turbid zodiac]

To make things easier, you can go into edit mode and hide certain parts

[river ingot]

I advise adjusting the rigging settings for the arm to limit them going too far against the body etc. 2. It's better if the chest is not weighed with the arm, and to let the arm rather hide inside the chest when brought down to the avatars side. 3. check the shoulders too, sometimes their part of that contraption of weightpainting there.

[pale pumice]

very 🙂

[tender garden]

(ended up giving up because the entire vrchat sdk died so hard every single one of my 80+ projects can no longer upload)

[robust flare]

Does anyone have insight on how to fix the fingers rolling like this?

[hybrid lion]

Looks potentially like a bone roll issue if it's not zeroed out before exporting the fbx into Unity. I believe that can sometimes cause issues with the IK as it rotates bones into the "expected" position.

Check in blender if you can. If it's a non-zero value of considerable size, that might be it.

[vestal condor]

so watching videos on weight painting and most of them showing them move the bones as they work to see results as they go.
if I do that, how do I put it back to tpose

[hybrid lion]

Aren't they usually in a combination of pose mode and weight painting mode? If you end pose mode it should return back to the rest pose (which ideally would be your T or A pose)

[vestal condor]

end pose mode with cats?

[robust flare]

They are zero'd. I'm guessing it's the rest position of the hands that need adjustment.

Appreciate the response.

[slow trout]

I checked the weight paint in blender and everything seems to be fine, but in unity it's stretched out as if it isn't weight painted?

[slow trout]

nvm, I figured it out, the new mesh I fixed got parented to all the other blend shapes somehow so I just propagated the finger and it's fixed now lol

[river ingot]

It could be the animation/idle proxy. You can adjust the angle that the fingers/bones will be pointing on those, then drop them into the proper slots in the bottom of the avatar descriptor in unity.

[vestal condor]

I remember seeing this in a video and I cant find it now. how do you redo automatic weights for specific bones?

[hasty cloud]

if i were to mirror a model of a wing with its armature all bone weighted in blender, how would i do that... cuz i just cannot remember how..

[hasty cloud]

why would you...

[tender garden]

its easier

[hasty cloud]

may i introduce u to automatic weight?

[tender garden]

didnt work

it threw errorrss thats why i asked here in the first place

[hasty cloud]

interesting, it usually works like a charm

but at least we both know how painfull it is to weight paint

[fervent mantle]

So for some reason whenever i try to clean up weight painting on my model it does this, I try to clear some weight on one side it adds to the other and doesn't clear the side i need it to, I have no modifiers other than armature

nvm I fixed by adding it to a new project

[river ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7piAUK9AQs4

[thorn wasp]

Should neck bones be connected to chest bones, or can they be unattached?
What's the best way to prevent chest bones shrinking downwards?

[solid otter]

does anyone know if metaballs can work on a model? :0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuLUqNNlN4g
like the effect thats done here

wanted my avatar to have clouds, or if theres a way to make rig clouds into jiggling with physbones?

not sure if anyone got an idea for that, prolly would be a way better choice tho

[river ingot]

I haven't seen programming for vrchat/unity for that yet. you could add jiggling to it, sure, but it would then require a more complex animation to put together where you would maybe use blender to form different versions of the ball to make them conjoined etc etc..

[solid otter]

oo do you know a way to make standalone objects jiggle in place then? :0
these are my refs n i have no idea how to add jiggle physics to em that would also make sure that the 1st one won't clip through its container

[river ingot]

a single bone, plus an end bone (end bone can be real small) Then apply physbone to the main bone.

You could also apply collliders to the two bones so they'll have effects when they collide..

[solid otter]

o dayum is it that simple
is there a special pattern I gotta weight paint or would that just be the surrounding bone areas?

[solid otter]

colliders so that nothing clips?

[river ingot]

thats their purpose. so they don't touch etc..

or how they touch and react etc

[solid otter]

oo gotcha
thanks👌

[slow bone]

Hello, this is my first time using Unity and I don't know what's going on here. I didn't make the T pose for this model, but I thought it would work anyway, can someone help me?

I fixed a bit the last one but the fingers are the real problem

I think I just have to make her in T pose but I want to know if there is another option

[cold cliff]

I'm having a situation where in desktop mode my avatar's eyes are fine, but in VR mode, one eye is fine but the other points BACKWARDS, into my head (but still rotates)........ any ideas?

[cold cliff]

I messed with settings and now the second eye is upside-down instead of backwards.....

ok I just kept messing with hard-coded offsets and it's now just magically working. whatever

[river ingot]

That's not the scene for t-pose, thats teh rigging screen where it lets you test the bone movements and adjust the constraints on how far the bones will move etc. when u hit save/done then it'll return to the normal screen that shows it in t-pose. The tab on the left "mapping" on the other hand will go to the bone labeling scene that should be in tpose..and has a "force t-pose" button u can press.

[river ingot]

in avatar descriptor you can individually adjust the eyes so they function properly.

[slow bone]

I know that, I just said my model isn't in T pose on default

[river ingot]

you adjust that in blender

[slow bone]

Oh okay

Thx

[heavy pendant]

I’ve never rigged anything before and drew out how I was going to rig my avatar model, does anyone think this will be ok?

[balmy delta]

it will yell at you that its not in tpose but its alright
the main issue is where the view point will be as if its at the avatar's eyes then your arms will be constantly up in the air

[heavy pendant]

the viewpoint will be lower, will that be an issue for the head?

[balmy delta]

not at all

[heavy pendant]

ok! thank you! this is currently what i rigged is it alright if a little bit of it goes out of the model?

[balmy delta]

why is the orange dot at the neck

[heavy pendant]

i dont know, thats where i originaly started extruding

is there a way to duplicate the bones to the other side?

[balmy delta]

you need the bones to already exist and then just symmetrise

[heavy pendant]

how do i symmetrise?

[heavy pendant]

Nvm I got it!

[frank jetty]

Does VrCC handle rigs from maya at all? Or should I brush off blender?

[pale pumice]

The orange dot is the object's origin - it should be at 0,0,0 for avatars - you'll want to select the Armature object (all of them really) and ctrl+a, apply all transforms

[pale pumice]

I know people who work in maya, it should be fine if you can export an FBX with the coordinate system Unity requires (+Y up)

[cold cliff]

I did, and the result worked right in the editor, and in desktop mode, but one of the eyes would flip only in VR

[frank jetty]

Awesome sounds good tyty!

[fading verge]

Does anyone know the process of attaching clothes to avatars within blender? Unity has tools made by the wonderful community that helps to automatically assign the clothing bones to the avatar bones. Is there an equivalent in Blender? I imported the .fbx of my character and clothes but I'm stuck at how to actually attach them.

[arctic sundial]

Have a go with CATS blender plugin then. However, do read the versioning tips as for example it aint ready for blender 4 yet

[river ingot]

Do you mean the part where you merge the clothes mesh with the body mesh via cats? Or the part where you would weight paint the clothes to the body so the clothes moves along with the body movements? Cats plugin has the merging options on it that help for that part. The weight painting, theres a trick to copying the weightpaints of the body vertices that the clothes will be covering up, and applying them to the clothes.

[fading verge]

Ooo thank you both @arctic sundial @river ingot ! I think the CATS plugin is just what I needed. Cheers~~

[sly mirage]

help pls @_@ i need a straigh forward instructions or tutorial on how to get rig of animation data animations rigs and get all meshs into 1 body mesh under the base rig. (not the animation rig. currently this blend has a animation rig a and the base bone armarture is circled blue n red up top i need all the meshs under that that rig. and the red and orange bad rig completely gone

[balmy delta]

you go and add the bone in the menu below the second image

[spring pendant]

Anyone know how to fix this?

[river ingot]

yah, go to the drop down menu section to the bottom of the green red body. Then in that section, it will show the parts in RED that need to be fixed. There is a way to click on those particular drop down menus for each particular bone, then with your full attention, you must master the ability of scrolling down the list of bones that comes with your uploaded avatar, and select the one that matches the words on the left. Some times we name our bones differently than whats on the left, so you can edit the name of your bones to make it simplier. Or you can stick with step 1.

[balmy vapor]

The bones are not aligned with the mesh, causing deformation issues. How to fix properly?

[pale pumice]

edit armature, re-align bones?

not quite sure if it needs to be more than that

[balmy vapor]

ok but the bones are literally like... the foreland.L is on pny.L. as if the weight painting was set to the wrong bones almost.

you know anyone who can fix this?

[pale pumice]

not quite sure I understand what's wrong yet?

you can certainly rename vertex groups on the mesh if they're named wrong

i.e. they match to bones by name

[golden bane]

I've already done that. Obviously I wouldn't have been able to test the model in VRC without the missing bones being resolved. But unless it's normal for one's arm to grow out of one's head, something is still bugged.

[stiff rover]

I cannt find that bone

[river ingot]

That sounds like it would require automated weight painting, and or a complete rework of the weightpainting for each bone. There are lots of people on here who offer comissions who can fix that..

[amber cosmos]

is there a way to get more detailed information on this error? i tried moving the hip bone in line with the upper legs per Kung's 2020 fbt video but the error message persists

[pale pumice]

is your hip bone upside-down? Maybe share a pic of your armature?

[amber cosmos]

even though the error message still says the angle is 0.6, moving the hip bone back fixed the problem in game so i suppose alls well that ends well

[pale pumice]

huh!

Okay then, nice that it's solved 🙂

[amber cosmos]

the armature is a little bit.... different than most

ive looked into why its like this and its because it was made in a program that doesnt work like blender and i would have to redo a whole bunch of stuff from scratch to convert it to a normal looking armature, so i just deal with this as best i can

left images is the hip spine and top legs isolated, right is the armature as a whole

[pale pumice]

wait, on the left, the spine isn't vertical?

yeah I can see why this is a problem

[amber cosmos]

everything is all sorts of things

it came that way

[pale pumice]

what fun.

[lost remnant]

Its like the droid I got 💀

[amber cosmos]

from what i was able to learn its because it was made with a program that does things that blender doesnt support, but at the same time unity has no problem with it

if i want to make it work in blender idhave to break and redo all the animations and components that use the armature as is

so far its less work to just deal with the wierd bones whenver something comes up in blender

[pale pumice]

Do you know which program?

[amber cosmos]

it says Maya

https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender-addons/issues/53620#1225926

this was the thread i found that seems to provide a good explanation of whats going on

[pale pumice]

yeah that's what I figured you'd say - I've seen this before but didn't connect things

[amber cosmos]

Maya/FBX bone is always displayed connecting two bone joints. In other words, the Maya visual of the bone segment is not dependent on the bone/joint local axis orientation or bone scaling in any way. It's basically just an arrow pointing to a child joint.

Blender always displays bone segments towards the +Y local bone axis.

this is helpful at least in making sense of the madness

[pale pumice]

yeah

[amber cosmos]

apparently some guy made a tool to fix it but im hesitant to mess around

[pale pumice]

it's really silly, this stuff should just work these days, but here we are

[amber cosmos]

https://boosty.to/luffythefox/posts/6a5cddfb-a45c-4423-ae08-7876fc13e3c7

its 14 dollars

id be more willing to spend money on it if i was confident id know what to do with it when i had it but i dont understand this at all so ill wait

[pale pumice]

yep, agreed

[amber cosmos]

idk the documentation seems pretty confident that it makes it easy im gonna put a pin in it

or idk if it's documentation

who knows

the blurb on his blog suggests its as simple as importing it and then exporting it

[pale pumice]

it ought to be that simple, yeah

(based on my understanding of the problem)

Blender was SO young the last time I worked with Maya at all

[amber cosmos]

maybe ill take one for the team and buy it hehe

[amber cosmos]

unrelated question

this avatar (im using a schematic becasue we saw what the armature looks like in blender)

has two physbones components for thigh jiggle. and thats neat! but it's worth not two physbone components neat.

i assume it needs two physbone components because each thigh bone is connected to a player controlled bone

but is there a clever way i can parent these into another component, or are they off to the chopping block?

like maybe i could have a unified jiggle bone and then put parent constraints on the the two thigh bones

[pale pumice]

I suspect that'd make them move weird. Though you could try making the root bone immobile with all of the curve options in the physbone component

[shrewd trout]

Hi, so I'm new to avatar creation and I had a question about the facial rigging I haven't been able to find an answer to. I've always heard that bone/joint-based facial rigs are preferred in games, but VRC only uses blendshapes, right? Is there a reason for that? Is it more performant to use blendshapes over joints now for expressions and visemes?

[pale pumice]

best you can get in vrchat is jawbone movement when speaking

can't really answer the rest

[shrewd trout]

No, that's helpful! Thank you. I didn't know if bones were even an option from the documentation and I prefer working with blendshapes, anyway.

[fervent mantle]

Technically you can animate all of your face properties with a facial rig and use that with viseme parameters for talking and animate facial expressions as you normally would just using bones, if done right it can help lower avatar size

[marble echo]

hey does anyone know how to parent two different rigs? wanting to attach a bell i rigged to a avatar in blender

[marble echo]

im thinking that attaching it to the chest bone is prob the best way to go but i dont know how to parent the two things together

[shrewd trout]

It's kind of the same way game characters and Metahumans work, right? I'm not at all familiar with the process, so I'm missing steps between "skin rig/make shapes" and "bones drive visemes" haha! I'm gonna look into it. Thank you!!

[arctic sundial]

Ctrl j to "join" armatures (make sure your transforms are zeroed out and that you join the bell to the avatar, not the other way around) then set the parent bone from the avi rig to the bell one and dont forget to set the armature modifier to the avatar now as there is no longer a standalone bell armature.

[hot turtle]

I'm having some problem with my impostor, it looks like every single separation (arm and forearm for example, that are loose on the impostor as well other members) are "down sized" for a single pixel, looks like every bone is down sized to 0.1 and you can only see a pixel or every arm/leg/head/body moving

for some reason the avatar tail haven't this problem

was something like it reported before?

lol

[scenic cliff]

so I was referred here and will just post the same message in hopes someone can help: so I am currently trying to learn how to weight paint, and I've weight painted my avatars hands about 4 times and they continuously look terrible in game. What exactly am I doing wrong? I'll just post what one finger looks like since I dont wanna spam with multiple pics

[balmy delta]

Theres not exactly a right or wrong way to weightpaint

But you can try this video

https://youtu.be/4fICQmBEt4Y?si=ky_kauQ6r4PgbZpz

[river ingot]

The bones could be edited, and moved around so their directly in the middle of the fingers to start. The mesh of the hand looks a bit jagged on a few fingers. you may need to reset them via pose mode, then when they look straight, set as default pose. 3.) You could resculpt the fingers a little bit to make them straighter too, like the ring finger maybe. Or just pull and tug via edit mode on the vertices. 4.)The root of each finger is too far beyond the root of the fingers. They should be aligned with the base of each finger, not so far into the palm.

[patent ether]

Dose anyone know how i can rig my model avatar becuse of how the neck works?

[balmy delta]

the horizontal neck piece is part of the head

[silver hawk]

I'm having some issues with my Avatars eyes, i thought i added the bones correctly but they do not move as i expected in unity :,)
I have not messed around with getting all eyes to move (That's another thing i gotta find out lmao) because i just want to get one pair to work for now..
Here's how it's set up rn

[patent ether]

Ok but then how am i suppose to rig that?

[balmy delta]

just put a head bone like normal then weightpaint it to that bone

[patent ether]

mmm ok ty

[warped flower]

does inverse kinematics work with vrchat?

[fierce rose]

Couldn't move your limbs ingame without it

[warped flower]

I meant, if adding my own inverse kinematics will hold the same affects in vrchat?

I'd appreciate your candor and patience with me

[pale pumice]

You can use Final IK in Unity, but if you're thinking of doing stuff with IK in Blender, then nope.

[vestal condor]

is there a way to move weights from a bone to it's parent? I want to delete bones that aren't necessary.

[arctic sundial]

CATS has a button to do exactly that

[warped flower]

Thank you!

I was going to work on some ik in blender, I see that’s a no, have a good one!

[warped flower]

Cats isn’t updated to 4.0 yet sadly

[brazen island]

still to find out what usefull for us been added in 3-4 blenders

[warped flower]

There is, I reckon Royal Skies may have a plug in or a tutorial for it, his tutorials are super straightforward

[brazen island]

only thing i found is unintuitive modifier and geometry nodes search in 4.0

[warped flower]

Yea, geometry nodes can be quite useful though, especially with the repeating zones

[brazen island]

ye but they existed in 2.93

maybe to the less extent

[arctic sundial]

Why ping me for this comment? Maybe the guy who asked isnt using blender 4 🤔🤔🤔

[warped flower]

Yes you can!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yd1NWOILnLw

https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/207035/is-there-a-way-to-delete-bones-and-transfer-weight-to-parent-bone

[warped flower]

….. so anyways

[warped flower]

There’s a couple ways you can go about it

The cats plugin is certainly recommended and relevant towards avatar development within vrchat’s standard workflow

https://github.com/absolute-quantum/cats-blender-plugin

This should be the plug in link

To use the plugin, simply download it and install it into your Blender installation then, open up Blender and go to the Add-ons tab, it should be under the edit in the top left, and select preferences. Under the Import-Export section, you should see an entry for the Cat Blender Plugin, enable the plugin and restart Blender!

If you can’t find it in your preferences, you can also search it

[astral warren]

I noticed if you set your hips to "Armature" in bone config instead of your real hips, it doesn't seem to create any problem with animating your avatar - are there any downsides to this?

[fading verge]

I was re rigging this skirt to make it have less bones, but I mess up somewhere and now one part of the skirt trim is not getting picked up when I move the bones

Never mind! I just didn't expand the weight painting far enough

[balmy vapor]

what to do when multiple bones in a tail happens to be in same place?

[drowsy plinth]

Yo, stupid question time. Google is failing me hard on this one. Is it possible to display the values the game sees for GestureLeft/Right and GestureLeft/RightWeight from my Index controllers in Unity?

I'm having a weird issue where some of my blend-trees based on the left/right weight values are not behaving as expected, and it would be really useful to see what numbers the engine is seeing in real time to troubleshoot

[brazen island]

@drowsy plinth radial menu - debug console

also not rigging

[simple verge]

not sure if this is the right channel to ask, but i have a character that has animation recorded for it using an avatar, and while on a human it looks fine, as the character the head is turned to one side a bit. can't figure out why! there's some sliders in avatar configure to adjust things like how the neck is turned, but none of this seems to actually affect it.

[drowsy plinth]

thanks, i'll give that a shot. Suggestions on which channel i should bring any follow ups on this subject to?

[brazen island]

@drowsy plinth you can always use #avatar-help for any avatar creation questions

[drowsy plinth]

thanks!

[frank palm]

How does one make an avatar that should move robotically? It needs a chest bone but the chest bone should not move any of it's parts. Since Unity's Humanoid Rig requires to have a chest bone I can't just simply make a spine that is parented directly to the shoulders.

[balmy delta]

just dont add weight painting to it

or do the opposite and make both the spine and chest share an identical weightpaint

[rare moon]

you don't have to weight paint it, but beware that the bone above it will be moved from that transform's position. If you do not want a chest bone, i would disconnect the neck bone from the chest bone (keep them parented, just not connected) and move the chest bone to the exact same position as the neck bone.

[frank palm]

Thank you. The disconnection and a bone in the same position did the trick. 👏

[patent ether]

Dose anyone know a really good tutorial on how to rig a vr chat avatar?

[vague dagger]

yeah sure

[brazen island]

@patent ether take mixamo, fix the rest

#avatar-rigging message

[patent ether]

but dosen't the model need a rig for mixamo to work?

[brazen island]

@patent ether no, it rigs itself any humanoid

theres also accurig but mixamos rig itself is more vrc compatible

[patent ether]

allright i'll try it

@brazen island and you said I didn't need a rig....

[brazen island]

you dont. maybe if you already have an aramature you need to remove it first

[patent ether]

well I just checked and it dosen't

[brazen island]

huh guess hevc cannot be embedded?

[patent ether]

How is this suppose to help?

[brazen island]

I honestly dont know how to answer to that. If rigging an armatureless model in one minute doesnt help, I have nothing.

[patent ether]

all you did was show a model in belnder and then put it into mixamo....

[brazen island]

and you want what

well ofc you should download it back, i omitted that step

[patent ether]

To know what to do???

[balmy vapor]

how come vrchat needs a chest bone but not a spine bone?

[brazen island]

@balmy vapor what it needs both

the upper chest is optional

[balmy vapor]

im confused then

[brazen island]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/377176391667417090/984212147317923890/unknown.png

thats without the upper chest. fingers are optional everything else is not

uh, feet/toes probly optional as well

[past bay]

I'm getting bowing legs and I've figured out it is because my knees and legs and slightly not flat, how would I flatten them?

they are pointed slightly inward

causes my legs ingame to do this

the knee also decides to lock out if I go to any side

[atomic temple]

That's awesome

[brazen island]

bone roll

[past bay]

Where can I find that?

[brazen island]

"blender bone roll" in google, its accesible from at least two places

[past bay]

Alright, thank you for your help

[past bay]

I did that and the problem still persists

Do you have any other fixes?

[brazen island]

it is on zero now?

[past bay]

yes

[leaden swan]

i am trying to add bones to the beak on my penguin avatar but for the life of me i cant get it to work properly can someone help?

[fading verge]

Need some help with this guy, please. Everything seems to look right but I ain't sure what to do.

[balmy delta]

drag in a new fbx

[dusty heart]

The Mesh that is selected doesn't move with the arm and I don't know how to attach it, Can someone help me.
The mesh does not have its own rigg and it is apart of the body mesh, its just not assigned to a bone

[arctic sundial]

Weight paint it to the lower arm.

[fringe knoll]

Hello, I was hoping someone would have some input on this; im trying to add some physbones to these headwings so I added 2 bones in blender and weight painted the bones to the mesh. in pose mode in blender the wing's mesh moves with each of the bones as intended but when i exported it to unity and add a physbone script there is no motion at all. did i miss a step in blender?

[brazen island]

move the bone outside of playmode. mesh moves - should work

[fringe knoll]

I figured it out, forgot sometimes physbones are weird and if you dont add an end point it thinks the length of the bone is 0. i just created and empty game object, positioned it at the end of the bone then parented it to each bone.

[brazen island]

theres end point length parameter or smth for such cases. ye, for unity bone is only its position/rotation, it has no idea about its length unless theres a child

[harsh cloak]

Hm.. Say i'm trying to rig up some animations to control bones positions, and i've got it in Gestures with a proper layer mask

why would a blend tree not be able to move said bones in play mode even if individually playing the animations works when not using a blend tree or setting the params

[brazen island]

is it generic (non humanoid) bones

[harsh cloak]

no

specifically, i'm trying to set up a ventriloquism system using a fake head bone

said fake bone is what i've set as the "head" bone for the model. there is a duplicate which houses the model weights for the head and is rotation-constrained to the fake headbone (which is the voice source)

theoretically it should be possible to just move this bone using a gesture FX animator controller layer

[sleek galleon]

Good freddy fazbear avatar

[winter heart]

any tips to make the eyes not clip through the face? I want this avatar to have eye movement but even slightly turning the eye bones causes clipping

[mental hamlet]

Hey, since a few weeks I am stuck with a problem about hand gestures.
I want to have face expressions connected to my right hand gestures, while my left hand should not change my expressions.
But my left hand should still work as intended, meaning when I make a fist with my rl hand it should be a fist in game.
After many fails and tries and guides I could never make it work, right now I am stuck with my expressions working with my right hand, but my left hand is moving together with my right one? I make a fist with only my right hand and it transforms my left hand into a fist as well for some reason.
Please if anyone could help me that would be amazing ❤️
this is my Animator Controller which is selected when I upload my avatar

[pale pumice]

you'd probably have to show some of those transitions, not much useful in that image

[bleak plover]

does this look correct?

[fading verge]

can a single mesh be properly rigged?

or does each part need to be separate

rigging is a huge blind spot in my blender experience

[brazen island]

yes a single mesh can be properly rigged, it uses vertex groups that tell to each vertex in it to follow some bone to some extent. in fact you must have separate meshes only for stuff you toggle on/off ingame, everything else should be one mesh and as few materials as possible.

[fading verge]

ohhh thank you

that makes sense

[fading verge]

unnamed rigs be like (i'm very stupid at rigging)

[arctic sundial]

good grace

[steady loom]

yo, does anyone know why Final IK might be drifting for the local user, but appears to be perfeft dor remote users?

[fading verge]

how make mesh deform to rig ~w~

[arctic sundial]

Weight paint it

[fading verge]

hm

i Dunno how to do that :3

[arctic sundial]

youtube has plenty tutorials. parenting with automatic weights will give you a good base to start

[fading verge]

ehhh didnt work

[arctic sundial]

I'm not going to beg you for details

[fading verge]

there we go ouch

[arctic sundial]

Well, i said it will give you a good base. I never said it will be perfect. You will always have to touch it up after any automated process

[fading verge]

yeah fair

[arctic sundial]

It looks like the arms are different meshes than the body though

Same with the head

So parent them to the armature the same way

[fading verge]

actually gonna be merging them together once done so

[lone mural]

hi yall!!! im super new to blender and all this. Im trying to make a naga avatar for myself. (A snake with an anthro torso (picture for example)) and i couldnt find any tutorials on how to rig the bones for the tail, or how to have it selected in unity

[balmy delta]

rig it like a regular humanoid avatar except the leg bones have no weights and the entire tail is a long chain of bones

after which in unity you just have a floor collider plane and add the tail sway as an animation in the fx layer

[narrow vortex]

Or just, make the tail physbones and super sensitive to movement

Did that with my snake guy personally

[narrow vortex]

either way the set up in blender is this ^

[lone mural]

so just make legs bones, connected to nothing that have no weight?

[balmy delta]

the only thing about the whole rig is you are required to at least have the bones there

they dont need to actually affect the model

[lone mural]

okay thats what i was wondering, i really appreciate it!!

[narrow vortex]

Leg bones that are connected to where the hip would be, but don’t have any weights, yep

[balmy delta]

the tail sway is really up to your personal choice
I just suggest it so when moving it looks less like you are just dragging along a tail

[lone mural]

is it okay if i dm you about this? i originally thought about just haing it drag along

but now im finding out you can have it animated :0

[balmy delta]

in the physbone component just enable is animated

after you just have an animation that just turns the tail left and right

[lone mural]

that sounds very easy but i literally have no idea how to do any of that

again i started like last night

[balmy delta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYeEy9_JBcE

you just use the locomotion layer parameters instead of a toggle

[lone mural]

wha

[lone mural]

that moves so fast

[balmy delta]

then make it slower?

[lone mural]

i mean the video!!

[wintry maple]

why am i only able to select the bones by clicking this little thing at the top?? never seen this before and its very unconvenient

[pale pumice]

which blender version?

[wintry maple]

it was 4.0

[pale pumice]

'cause in 4.0+ you have to ctrl+shift click bones, in <4 you have to ctrl+click them.

[wintry maple]

eeww

thank you

[pale pumice]

that one got me too when they updated

[lone mural]

how would i do a tongue flicking animation?

[pale pumice]

got tongue bones?

[trim nexus]

are twist bones like this any good or should I swap it out for the normal rig

[pale pumice]

which is the twist bone? it's hard to see what you're referring to here.

[fading verge]

how to get a tail to flex properly

[pale pumice]

that seems very vague and open-ended. Maybe show what you have for model + bones now?

[fading verge]

you're not wrong, this is what happens :P

[pale pumice]

probably smooth out the weight painting

[fading verge]

probably just a weight paint deal but i frankly dont know how weight painting works, at all

[pale pumice]

it's pretty simple really - for each vertex, there's a 0-1 which says how much it moves along with the bone.

[fading verge]

zero seems to be less resistant, up to 1 which is very resistant...

but no setup seems to fix the issue

[balmy delta]

multiple bones can be affecting the same vertices

[fading verge]

ah

that's not right

guess i should set vertex groups

or something

[bright geyser]

can some one help me with bones that do this?

[fading verge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=SCWZr-It1bE

I'm trying to do this bone-by-bone weight viewing but it isn't working

[pale pumice]

Which blender are you using?

in 3 you ctrl+click a bone but in 4 you ctrl+shift+click bones

[fading verge]

oo

neither of those work lol

but doing it in the bone menu does

[pale pumice]

weird - you've got an armature modifier and you selected the armature, then the mesh, then went to weight paint mode?

[fading verge]

yep

blender is weird sometimes tbh

[pale pumice]

and you don't have masking on? top-left, little icons, or 1 to toggle

(sorry)

[fading verge]

i dont think so?

[trim nexus]

these two

the ones not in the normal reference for VRC avatars

[pale pumice]

not sure what's going on with your upper arm there, but they don't seem unreasonable otherwise

[trim nexus]

the guard piece?

[pale pumice]

looks like you have two upper arm bones? Or is the second one the twist bone and the main one doesn't go all the way to the elbow?

[pale pumice]

now that I look back at the original message, is that what you're asking about?

usually a twist bone is not actually part of the path from shoulder to elbow, I wouldn't be surprised if that confuses Unity, but in theory it should work

[trim nexus]

this is just how these models come so I was wondering yeah

other than being a little shorter than my normal arm, they seem to work fine

[pale pumice]

yeah haven't seen it this way for vrchat but it seems like it should work

[trim nexus]

thanks

[bright geyser]

the right hand despite being seperated from the left it still moves when i move the left hand even when i got rid of parenting

[molten pond]

Something with mirroring maybe?

[fading verge]

Clearly i kinda suck at weight painting lol

[nocturne ivy]

aaaaaaaaa

[narrow vortex]

Check the vertex groups. If the vertexes on the right arm also have weights from the left it’ll move when either bone moves

Also your parenting is wrong, those dotted lines show you how the bones are parented, and the entire left arm is parented to the hip/base

[narrow vortex]

This too looks like a weight painting/vertex group issue, not a bone parenting one

[rancid dust]

is it possible to import the hand mesh (already separated, but in the same fbx) as a different fbx and connect it to the main armature (without importing another armature for the hands)

[hasty cloud]

I might be dumb, but I'd say no, cuz I already tried once. From personal experience, Unity doesn't recognize the fact that a different mesh from a different fbx file is actually weight painted to the armature you are trying to connect your mesh to. Unity basically sees it as a fbx file containing a mesh that doesn't have anything to do with the main armature of your avatar. BUT like i said, im not sure, maybe there's a way.

[pseudo meteor]

Hey, I'm working on my first VRChat avatar. I'm confident in my modelling ability but I'm not very good at rigging. Is there anything I should look out for during the modelling process that won't mess with the rest of the pipeline?

[pale pumice]

that roughly fits my understanding too

[river ingot]

Your making that sound complicated, are you saying that you want to import a hand mesh that has its own fbx, and add it to your main fbx. Then connect it with the main armature? If so You could A.) Use the hands armature tha your replacing for the new hand mesh, and weight paint it onto the hand+fingers. or B.) Use Cats plugin to merge the bone/mesh of the new hand to the main armature (which is a lot easier) Using B.) it will also add a bone to the hand mesh which will be used to join it to the arm bone, which you may need to identify as what your joining the hand fbx to etc etc. Or just merge it, then delete the new bone after it does the merging.

[rancid dust]

I’m saying I want the hand mesh to be a separate mesh from the rest because I have to compress the body for quest but the compression messes up the fingers 😔 but sadly I don’t think it’s possible to do it the way I want and I just need to figure it out the hard way

[dreamy heron]

Hi hiiiiii
So I’m new to blender and I made a model for myself. However when I brought the model over to Unity, the head just slightly looks down. Like the character looks depressed cuz it’s looking down.
I think My armature in my avatar’s is messed up but I’m not sure exactly how to fix it ?

(Sorry for the bad quality screenshot, discord doesn’t work on my PC)

[river ingot]

That should be able to be fixed in blender, in pose mode. While in T-pose it should default be set to look straight. the arms aren't extended from her sides either which is also required for t-pose mode

[dreamy heron]

Ah sorry, the model is positioned like that due to being in Play Mode / Using Gesture Manager

But the model itself, the fBX, it is set in a TPose mode

[river ingot]

oh, gesture manager has different poses it sets them in, like idle, standing, etc etc. it is also where you can edit the proxy positions to your preference and added in at the avatar descriptor.

[river ingot]

Your lucky I worked on this over the weekend, and forgot to post it up.

https://youtu.be/PBqG8rUpxVc

[dreamy heron]

What do you mean by “Proxy Positions”?

[river ingot]

roh, in the sdk there are sample folders with them labeled as proxies. all default animations, positions etc are hidden in those folders.

[rancid dust]

Thank u this helps a lot

[dreamy heron]

Oh I see thank you

[lone mural]

how do i rig a model?

[torpid burrow]

is this ok

my avatar is a slight bit off centred anyone know an easy way to recenter it all?

im really struggling to figure out why this isnt symmetrizing correctly

i have no idea why this isnt symmetrical

i mirrored it all

ididnt do any of the symmetry by hand

[lone mural]

Help please!!!!! im beginning to rig the tail and i dont know how to rig the lower part... i was thinking of just dragging my hip bone all the way down so it doesnt move... I just dont want my tail dragging unrealistically far behind my body so it just looks like my torso is floating..

thats what i mean

[balmy delta]

Just make that part not be affected by the physbone?

[lone mural]

i may be stupid

[river ingot]

usually instead of legs and feet, the hip bone could be extruded several times into linked extensions to the end of the tail..

[river ingot]

looks okay except the shoulders are higher than the arms..

[arctic sundial]

I'd make the hip as normal and then extrude however many joints you want for the tail. I assume you want some physics to apply to the first bone of the tail (1 below hip) but not the "space drag" thing - so lets remember how physbones have actual graph settings that would allow you to make the root of the tail stiffer and the rest gradually more movable

[cold cliff]

there's no way around the "four bone weights per vertex" limit, is there?

[uncut breach]

It's a Unity limitation

[cold cliff]

it isn't, you can disable it in the project settings... but, I'm assuming that VRChat itself is set to use the 4-bone setting

[brazen island]

its unity project limitation and you cannot set settings for vrchat's main unity project, yes.

[calm totem]

I know this is fairly old but can I dm u as I also have some issues as well

[hoary compass]

In Unity 2019, I used to be able to go into Play Mode, enter an animation (e.g., Prone), edit something Blender, overwrite the fbx, and the changes would immediately reflect. This was good for testing weight painting.

Since 2022, it doesn't seem to work anymore, and I have to exit and reenter Play mode to get the new weights to reflect.

Is there a setting or something I can change?

[hasty cloud]

that wouldve been so much better...

now if i wanna do a modification, i have to fukin restart the damn thing

[hoary compass]

It's so annoying （ つ Д ｀）

[rose wagon]

Wait what's different?

You can't do that anymore?
I just switched recently so I guess I'll be finding out

[proper thunder]

My avatar has an extra lower pair of arms, should I have the second pair rigged with it's own bones, or figure out how to make each side of arms share similar deformations to the same skeleton arm?
I'm pretty sure the lower pair is the thing preventing my rig being classified as humanoid.

[pale pumice]

Rig the second set, and you can use constraints to have them duplicate the primary set's movements.

(if you want)

[bold stag]

anyone got a yt tut on how to rig the , ears , hoodie and hair so it has physbone compatibility

[pale pumice]

basically make bones to move the parts you want, and in the case of hair, use a common root bone. Otherwise this is just like any other rigging.

[bold stag]

didnt think it would be

alright then thanks

[pale pumice]

yeah really nothing to it, physbones are really just bone chains with the script applied in Unity.

[pure onyx]

can anyone help me with weighting skirts/dresses without physbones please

[pale pumice]

Did you have a specific question?

[pure onyx]

idk if this looks ok now but i want it to bend more properly

[pure onyx]

if that makes sense

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure what I'm looking at, but probably the answer to "bend more properly" is better weight painting 🙂

[pure onyx]

thats the skirt bending

[pale pumice]

can you show the whole avatar? It's hard to make out what part this is

[pure onyx]

skirt my guy

[pale pumice]

yeah I know you said that several times

[pure onyx]

havent added the head or hair

wanna fix this first

[pale pumice]

ah! now i can actually see what is going on here, thanks

[pure onyx]

lmk

[pale pumice]

Yeah I'd bet on just "weight painting" based on that

[pure onyx]

can i have some help i dont mind payingjust a little

like 5 dollars

[pale pumice]

sorry, not interested

[pure onyx]

in helping in general?

[pale pumice]

I'm happy to help if I can in here, but I'm not looking for a commission

[pure onyx]

ah ok can u help me with the weight paint then

its as much as i can do

[pale pumice]

I can't tell you how best to weight paint it from here

[pure onyx]

how

[pale pumice]

?

[pure onyx]

how best to weight paint

then tell me

[pale pumice]

read what I said. You'll have to paint it so it looks how you want it to look

[pure onyx]

i got that but i did the best i can im not great with weights

[pale pumice]

yep, practice

[pure onyx]

ah ok

[pale pumice]

it's not easy

[pure onyx]

ik

im good with so much but except weight paint

[hasty cloud]

i'd say the same goes for most people when it comes to weight painting lol

[pale pumice]

haha absolutely

[hasty cloud]

look what i have to weight paint:

[pale pumice]

hard surfaces are a lot easier though, likely most of the parts have the same weight

[hasty cloud]

well ill be honest, the model was already weight painted (thank GOD), however i do have to modify some of its components to be separable like some bits of the arms and then add bones to them

[pale pumice]

the flexy parts in the joints though...

[hasty cloud]

i'd agree, untill all the parts have been joined together...

[pale pumice]

I tend to join at the end

[hasty cloud]

yes but ive once worked with a model...

that had armor bits that were all joined at the begining...

and the worst part

i had to restart the armature

[pale pumice]

hmm

[hasty cloud]

i have a avatar that had armored wings, and i wanted to have it so that the plates moved as well

it was hell...

[pale pumice]

ahh yep, that'd be fun.

[hasty cloud]

Speaking of armatures and such... is there a way i can straighten out these bones..? i got the model and it came with its pose set like this...

sadly, the rest pose is also like this

[pale pumice]

yeah you can just re-pose it and apply the armature modifier to all the meshes, then save the new pose as the rest pose, and add new armature modifiers

[hasty cloud]

oh boy so basically guessing...

[river ingot]

cats has an easier way to get to pose mode.

[hasty cloud]

do tell me!

[pale pumice]

Yeah that does work sometimes

[river ingot]

You could also add in physbones to the skirt, and have physbones on the thighs so when the dress bones collide with the leg bones they'll react. You can also add gravity and responsiveness to hitting the legs via physbones.

on another note, you may need to add more bones to the skirt too make it that good..

[pale pumice]

they specifically said without physbones though. I'd have done what you said too

[river ingot]

ur right they did, but it is the best way.

[pale pumice]

agreed

[river ingot]

maybe just colliders then haha..

otherwise i thikn the front of the skirt would clip through the thighs without the colliders. And or, move the skirt so its attached to the legs instead of blossomed out at the hips like that.

[pale pumice]

yeah, or it'll move kinda funny just going with the legs

[hasty cloud]

lol

[pale pumice]

but if you're at your physbone limit, well...

[hasty cloud]

thats what i suggested for a solution without physbones

[river ingot]

make it a tight fitting miniskirt would be a good option 😄

[river ingot]

Says right there (start pose mode)

[hasty cloud]

oml this is a lifesaver lol

[river ingot]

Just dont use "fix model"

[hasty cloud]

oh- why?

[robust crescent]

rare cases model wont like it, most of the time no issue

you will see if you try - what ive seen - uv merged with diferent names = you now have a wierdly colored one , removed bones it still need (this is why fix have a bunch of settings you can change)

[hasty cloud]

huh.. interesting

[robust crescent]

see it maybe once every 80~ model ive converted its rare

[hasty cloud]

how the heck do i instal cats

i downloaded it

how do i put it in blender

nvm i figured out

[hasty cloud]

question: how can i move a bone without moving the model itself...

it seems that everytime i try moving a bone in edit mode and then going in pose mode, the model's weight connected to the bone will move as well

how can i prevent that?

[pale pumice]

you can do it in edit mode if you're editing the rest position. Otherwise that's the point of weighting, to move mesh with the bones

[hasty cloud]

i mean yeah, but wouldn't it be better if the weights didn't move while in edit mode? and then leave all of the weight moving to when in pose mode??

also yea moving bones in edit mode despite being in the rest position still moves the weights

[pale pumice]

wait it does?

doesn't seem to for me

[river ingot]

Weight painting is applied to the mesh pixels/faces etc. You can have a mesh on the leg be weightpainted to the right arm bone, and that mesh will move when the right arm moves. of course this happens to newbies who unknowingly weight paint the right arm, while the leg is visible on the other end of the arm thus weighing both meshs at the same time. (an example, not related to the problem)

[hasty cloud]

that wasnt what i was having trouble with tho

[river ingot]

okay, to resolve the problem of mesh moving with bones after you've moved them, you can A.) Zero out all weights to that bone on the mesh. or B.)delete the bone, then make a new one to replace it.

Personally, I've moved around finger bones, arm bones, shoulder bones and the meshes never moved around on me while I was editing/moving them around, so I'm not sure how exactly your doing the problem.

[hasty cloud]

i fixed the problem

yea it was very weird, the model's bones moved the parts, but when i checked the bone weight, none of them were red

so it was moving without the bone weight..

tho i fixed it already

ty tho

[pale pumice]

Just delete the vertex group with the same name as the bone.

[hasty cloud]

there wasnt any vertex groups lol

despite that, the mesh was moving

[pale pumice]

huh

[hasty cloud]

ik

like i said

very weird

[pseudo trout]

OK so for some reason

i weight painted a single bone to some fan blades

but when i rotate the bone, the blades dont spin

[river ingot]

are you spinning the bone the right direction? are they all weightpainted in red?

[pseudo trout]

think so

[uncut breach]

does the mesh have an armature modifier

[pseudo trout]

i dont beleive so?

technically my first time rigging anything

@uncut breach

[uncut breach]

it'll need that for pose mode in blender to work properly

[pseudo trout]

how do i add it

[pseudo trout]

cuz im not sure how to do that

[hasty cloud]

wait- im just realizing that blender is now in 4.0-

im still using 3.6 lmfao

wtf am i doing

[pseudo trout]

no point in upgrading

i just have the version that was the newest when i downloaded it

i dont use the steam version

[hasty cloud]

theres a steam version?!

bro im living under a rock

ur telling me that blender is on steam?

[pseudo trout]

yeah

[hasty cloud]

omfg how did i never know that

lol

this is the first time knowing blender was on steam

[pseudo trout]

i still need help :/

[hasty cloud]

did you add a armature modifier?

[pseudo trout]

For the second time

i dont know how

[hasty cloud]

see the icon that looks like a wrench

[pseudo trout]

on the blade object?

[hasty cloud]

no

[hasty cloud]

YES

[pseudo trout]

see

you knew what i meant

[hasty cloud]

i though u meant directly on your bla-

doesnt matter...

add a modifier

[pseudo trout]

what kind

[hasty cloud]

press armature

[pseudo trout]

yeah?

[hasty cloud]

not your armature

but the armature modifier

[pseudo trout]

yeah????????

i did

[hasty cloud]

show me what you see

[pseudo trout]

oops got my other monitor

[hasty cloud]

you see the little eyedropper symbol

lol idk what they r called

[pseudo trout]

yeah

what about it

[hasty cloud]

click on it

then click your actual armature

[pseudo trout]

alright

[hasty cloud]

show me what happened

[pseudo trout]

nothing from the looks of it

looks the fuck same

[hasty cloud]

it isnt

now

[pseudo trout]

uhuh

[hasty cloud]

forget what i said

before that

click your blade

[pseudo trout]

yeah

[hasty cloud]

shift + click your armature

[pseudo trout]

mhm

[hasty cloud]

ctrl p

[pseudo trout]

there are multipole options

[hasty cloud]

do you mind redoing the bone weighting?

[hasty cloud]

if it works this time?

[pseudo trout]

nah

[hasty cloud]

alr

then do object (keep transform)

then

[pseudo trout]

yeah?

[hasty cloud]

click your armature

shift + click your blade

and go in weight painting mode

select your bone while holding ctrl

and show me what you see

[hasty cloud]

try and see if it works

[pseudo trout]

yeah it works

[hasty cloud]

nice

[pseudo trout]

So

this is actually for my avatar

i need the fan blades to be spinning constantly

how would i do that

[hasty cloud]

you can do an animation in unity

thats what i usually do

[pseudo trout]

well no shit bro

[hasty cloud]

lmao

[pseudo trout]

i dont know HOW to do that

[hasty cloud]

well

[pseudo trout]

oh sweet jesus its gargantuan

[hasty cloud]

damn

r u familiar with uh