vrchat-general-2

[jovial kestrel]

IIRC?

[sharp rose]

think so yea

[steady kayak]

those are roles nobody can get anymore back when VRCs system was giving them

they dont have a difference over trusted user though!

[polar crown]

someone said i have veteran

[sharp rose]

that'd be very odd.

[tepid flume]

they're still given out, just not visible anywhere official

[steady kayak]

you can see it with third party tools like vrcEX thats about it I heard.

[polar crown]

but they were looking at like the api

[digital mantle]

huh

[steady kayak]

Legendary users are very early vrc players who ranked up in the system.. it probably was reserved at one point for more trust levels but was discarded I assume

[woeful spoke]

I am going to be honest here the only reason I ever did use a Mod was for 2 things 1) Global Dynamic Collision its something that is literally a switch to flip on and should be something that can be enabled just by turning off personal space. 2) Having the darn VRC Menu actually follow my head when I am in full body XD. Other than that rest of my things were disabled and never used. Since yall are pushing this step forward I am reconsidering doing VRC Plus now if you work with those wonderful creators for betterment of VRC

[steady kayak]

sadly never made it to legendary.. didnt play enough before the whole knuckles thing but my username is in the old lobby (you can check vrc's some most early players by heading there).

[lapis gulch]

legendary is still achievable confirmed by tupper just does nothing and has insane requirements

[steady kayak]

oh really? thats surprising!

i bet i know who has this then. I dont use third party tools but I can guess.

[polar crown]

one of my avatars is featured on the public avatar row so i wonder if that has anything to do with it

[sharp rose]

We are indeed going to talk to them, yes.

[jovial kestrel]

Yeah I'm pretty sure you can still get the API tags.

[sharp rose]

well not "to" ...with? you know what I mean lol

[tepid flume]

Date Joined
2018-02-05
Account Age
3 Years 55 Days

still didn't get above trusted :(

[sharp rose]

we will converse

[steady kayak]

blu the vrc trust system is weird but nobody really says in specific how it wworks or else people would go the fast route to ranking up

[sharp rose]

Hardly anyone actually knows how it works. I sure dont.

[steady kayak]

i heard its a combination algorithm of uploading content, hours online, amount on friends list.

[tepid flume]

i didn't do anything specific just to appease their algorythm. uploaded avatars and worlds when i had them ready not just to upload something, etc

[steady kayak]

and creation of account date.

[lapis gulch]

45 hours playtime + 1 avatar + 50 friends = known
150 playtime + 1 avi + 1 world (with friends visiting) + 100 friends = trusted
a few of us have speedrun it lmao
now i actually sleep

[vocal shard]

anyone wanna play vr chat together

[steady kayak]

i dont have that much playtime compared to what ive seen i just started early for trusted

[sharp rose]

one of these days im gonna play minesweeper with another actual real person

itll happen

or like, pool

[steady kayak]

786.1 hours .. i dont know when i can see i started playing but early 2017 for me.

[digital mantle]

minesweeper irl

[jovial kestrel]

What does this mean

[woeful spoke]

@sharp rose awesome to hear I think with collaboration and work with those QOL mod creators it will help in the long run. Extremely proud with that announcement in yalls endeavors with VRC. Keep it up I appreciate it.

[tepid flume]

i wish the api would return my play time. steam is unreliable

[sharp rose]

❤️

[sharp rose]

There's a minesweeper world i hide in because its quiet and also minesweeper, which you can enjoy either ironically OR normally (best of both worlds)

[jovial kestrel]

I might have to check that out.

[steady kayak]

checked apparently I started playing vrc Nov 4, 2017

[sharp rose]

oldest user here, joined, uh...

...7 months ago >_>

[worthy oracle]

you what

[steady kayak]

somewhere 2016 I reckon are some of the early players!

[sharp rose]

damn has it been 7 months already, feels like i just got here

[worthy oracle]

bonk

[steady kayak]

i still remember the old lobby but I don't miss it.. that castle lobby haha

[worthy oracle]

time has been flying

[sharp rose]

really has lol

[steady kayak]

or the VR pill office. you'd ring a bell and pill would get actually notified

[sharp rose]

speaking of, you seen his nightclub world?

[steady kayak]

ofc!

[sharp rose]

is fanceh

[steady kayak]

had a drink there once or twice. its nice

[sharp rose]

Love the lighting rigs on the DJ booth too, really fun setup there

[loud gale]

I been on vrchat 2 months

I barely been on like 14 times max. N I got full tracking. Ironic how I barely use it lmao

[steady kayak]

You need to go to vrc events.. youll use it more!

[sharp rose]

^

[loud gale]

..Imagine having time for events with a military family.
I usually take my sleep from 1am-6am

[sharp rose]

lotta moving, certainly

[steady kayak]

its possible.. i saw the camera operator of couriosity on a VRC event

[loud gale]

No, it's the fact I can't get on or I get blame for being on the computer/technology, not going for my hw, while also being yell at repeatingly for not being responsible

[steady kayak]

i probably misspelled that brutally

[sharp rose]

ah gotcha

[sharp rose]

a bit but meh XD

and yea that was crazy to see

[loud gale]

Trust me, military families are prolly great citizen-wise

My mother is military, overseas wise, so she came back uhhh... in charge.

[steady kayak]

vrc dance events are amazing.. in a time where all is closed (grats america btw for re-opening soon)

[sharp rose]

Wife was in the army for awhile, and while she was, I was on her time, coz that's just how it worked.

[loud gale]

It's not great. At all. @ The america opening

It actually backfire AGAIN.

[steady kayak]

maybe.. well see tbut things need to change. but dont wanna turn this into an irl politic etc thing haha. i work in events and things need change tho

[sharp rose]

yea not going down that road

[steady kayak]

lets not.

[sharp rose]

milciv family life, ill ramble for hours

[vocal shard]

Trusted User is really weird to get

[sharp rose]

politics are against channel rules tho

[steady kayak]

good

[vocal shard]

2 Avatars, 2 Worlds, I had over 200+ friends and 1k hours when i got mine

Now I have 400+ Friends 😆

[steady kayak]

i dont have that many.. i started to be more careful with adding because not everyone is really that dedicated to being actually active

not talking every day but monthly

[vocal shard]

I noticed that quickly, 80% of my friendlslist belongs in the offline List

[steady kayak]

mhm!

[sharp rose]

ppl having lives outside of vr

rood

[vocal shard]

True

[steady kayak]

do we ?

[sharp rose]

allegedly XD

[loud gale]

Yeahhh

Here's why I ain't got friends on vrchat. Psychopathic tendencies, but yeah, I clear alot.

[steady kayak]

honestly not much of that rn with all being closed haha

[sharp rose]

Clinical or hyperbolic?

Actually asking btw, that's not snark

[vocal shard]

I have slowed down the amount of time I bring in VR overall, but since I got beat saber I might pump it up a notch.

[sharp rose]

come to think of it, dont think the most recent DSM recognizes psychopathy as its own thing anymore

[steady kayak]

for me its every weekend rn. (VR time spending). or short parts of a regular day depending on whats going on.

[loud gale]

I cannot, for the life of me, add people I will barely interact with from the get-go, or go to private worlds often. I am not going to quite literally stalk you like a motherfucker. If you're always going to be in private, it shows you got your group of friends, bye, I ain't for that, since I rather find my own group to fit into at some point. W elaughed, yeah, made jokes, don't add me over that shit.

[sharp rose]

but im not a doc

[random badge]

vrchat: its ok to use mods
also vrc in same post: its not ok to use mods

[sharp rose]

not what that says :p

[random badge]

that what it means

[sharp rose]

it isnt, no. sorry

[random badge]

they encouraged stuff being upliaded back LOL

Even tho it sais its not ok

[sharp rose]

What it does say (and mean) is, we understand why people mod, we get why this whole situation wasnt good for anyone, and we're taking a step back to talk to some modders and evaluate this whole thing before moving forward.

[random badge]

kinda confusing to read xD

[sharp rose]

Because...well, this wasnt ideal for anyone, obvs

[loud gale]

It was a hell for the chats

[sharp rose]

and we acknowledge that

[random badge]

So from that i expect tos change soon

[sharp rose]

and we're not perfect either, just a group of people workin over here lol

[random badge]

bits of it

[steady kayak]

read it again :>

[sharp rose]

possibly, not sure. gotta see where this goes first. but that is possible.

[loud gale]

I mean to be fair

[steady kayak]

anyway time for actual breakfast rn

[sharp rose]

o/

[loud gale]

Using the not perfect thing is also a petty excuse.

[sharp rose]

I'd say it's an honest one. We're human and falliable.

That's a pretty unrelated example. Traumatic events and a misunderstanding about mod clients arent quite the same thing.

[loud gale]

Better example. I am not perfect. I've manipulated and used people. Still sort of do. See my case? You can't just say this when it's going ot keep ongoing anyways for the people.

[vocal shard]

I understood the point directly, They acknowledge the usefullness of some of the Mods, And they are willing to look the other way temporarily. but they don't condone the use of it. This is a step towards a better future of VRChat hopefully.

[sharp rose]

That assumes it'll keep going on. If you're talking actual sociopathy, that's something unrelated to the general "do, learn, adapt, change, do different" cycle we all have, including that.

[loud gale]

I'll keep you to that.

[sharp rose]

I get the mindset you're speaking of, I genuinely do. And it's why I'm confident in saying this situation won't play out the same way.

But

Frankly, I understand why you'd be hesistant to take our word for it.

So we'll just have to demonstrate good faith, rather than assume you'll take it on our word.

[loud gale]

Oh I am not hesitant. I'm a psychopath. I'm also a psycho-analyzer with statistics.

Trust me, I know facts given the circumstances, many messages, and outcomes, sources, and the outlooks. I get bored a lot with free time.

[sharp rose]

Unwilling may have been a better term for this situation, perhaps. Granted, I don't know you personally very well.

Fair point.

[vocal shard]

Let's hope, Sacheverell. That this turns out better then for the worse.. Cause the consequences after this message if the talks fail, can be austonomical.

[sharp rose]

I'm aware.

[loud gale]

Though I'm not blaming you at all sacheverell. You're not exactly the part of the major team in charge, you're just a watcher of the chat, no big deal. You're a human in this point of time. No power's been given except to stop trolls/etc.

[sharp rose]

But if I'm to take you and your situation at your word, I'd think you would care more about honesty and results than platitudes.

[loud gale]

Honesty ain't matter to me.

[vocal shard]

I havent had much trouble with anything people are complaining about ngl. I've been pretty lucky

[loud gale]

Because you can have hope as honesty, or statements given, but at the same time is it not the company which tells you to say good things from the get go, manipulating what you say so you won't lose your spot?

[vocal shard]

Aside from my VR Crashing cause of my bent cable lmao

[sharp rose]

Can see that, yea.

[loud gale]

How did yuo bend the cable.

[sharp rose]

Although I'd point out no one's told me to say anything. I just talk. 😛

[vocal shard]

Rift S Cable is stupid.

[loud gale]

Like the end or the wire in the center or something.

[worthy oracle]

i mean we have never seen such an announcement ever before. i take that is already a giant leap forward. best we can do is try to take their word for it, no need to be petty about it

[vocal shard]

It's made itself into a spiral.

[loud gale]

...???The fuck. Great thing I got the cheap ones...

[sharp rose]

he isnt being petty, its a valid question and deserves a valid answer.

I'm not shying away from a question just because someone's direct with it, it's still valid.

[loud gale]

I'm not being petty as I'm not attacking anyone like you are Nin.

[vocal shard]

Ima play Valheim now, nice chatting with ya'll!

[loud gale]

Sacheverall is just a messanger. I'm not stupid in comparison to you. (A backtalk to the petty remark.)

[sharp rose]

if anything, it's easier. No presumptions, no fluff. Just direct convo.

[loud gale]

Eye for an eye.

Now if you want to be the bigger person we can change conversation or move on, but I doubt you are bigger, so I'll move the conversation to ice cream.

What's your favorite ice creams?

[sharp rose]

We can probably safely assume that line of convo is over, yes. :p

[topaz flax]

I feel the recent situations that have been going on in VRC are leaving a
bad taste in my mouth like a very sour :🍋:. There are many features in the game
that I wish we're added but have not been implemented because the development team is
prioritizing monentary gains instead of service support, and instead of putting an effort
to care for their player base of multiple groups across the world, they have decided to stay 100%
within the US with servers, which leads to the VRC team having to follow U.S government placed sanctions
for other countries like Cuba or Slavic countries like Ukraine or Russia for example. Hopefully the game
improves soon otherwise I will take my departure gladly.

[meager solstice]

What?

[weak jay]

cool

[tepid flume]

don't keep your head down, things might change soon. wait a little before coming to conclusions

[coarse blaze]

what's wrong with servers being in the US anyways, I've spent 600 hours with 200 ping and I never even noticed I have ping (only when I played murder I realised there's actual ping in this game)

[meager solstice]

I’m more curious how sanctions effect him?

[coarse blaze]

IP block, I assume?

[meager solstice]

I have multiple Russian, Lithuanian friends and I don’t think they need a vpn

[coarse blaze]

I'm Lithuanian and I don't, I have a Russian friend and he doesn't

[meager solstice]

So...... Then how is it effecting him

[coarse blaze]

but someone like the Chinese have to use VPN for almost everything because of their government lul

[meager solstice]

@coarse blaze that’s different

[coarse blaze]

I HAVE heard that some specific countries were locked out of registering, I think it was saudi arabia?

[meager solstice]

@coarse blaze I have Saudi friends that play

[coarse blaze]

could've also been a bug, at this point unsure, but I do remember that a country was blocked

[meager solstice]

I would like to know how sanctions effect you plz

[covert chasm]

Even if we had servers outside the US, we still have to follow US sanctions 🤔

we're a US company, so

[tepid flume]

they have to follow GDPR too even though thats a EU thing

[coarse blaze]

nyx!

[pearl loom]

Any plans for EU servers? Running on 200 pings when I'm in an instance with european players is strange

[muted wharf]

oh hi

[muted wharf]

Just to kinda throw in a quick word, we don't have a country blocked, and have never had a country blocked from accessing vrc :p

[coarse blaze]

have you stopped feeding the hamsters lately

[signal coyote]

how come i cant click the vrchat+ to support

[pearl loom]

What happened to Russian players at one point?

[coarse blaze]

my memory is garbage then I guess, pain

[muted wharf]

whatever it was, it wasn't us pushing the "no russia today" button

[covert chasm]

i seem to recall a russian backbone edge service provider that thought it'd be a great idea to block any TLD that matched the pattern .*t\.co.*

so, probably that

[muted wharf]

ah yeah

[signal coyote]

whyyy cant i supportt

[pearl loom]

Are you on quest?

[signal coyote]

no

[tepid flume]

what if you started the "no russian" mission tho ||(it's a reference to mw2)||

[muted wharf]

#vrchat-support should be able to help

[coarse blaze]

cheeky way to remove half of the malicious users

[muted wharf]

Not really :v

I don't think you need to spoiler tag MW2 stuff lmao

[tepid flume]

will you allow me one question that plagued my mind recently

[meager solstice]

But what if no one played mw2

[muted wharf]

It's been like 12 years :v

Which... makes me feel old

[coarse blaze]

I already asked him if he stopped feeding the hamsters lately, but no response :(

[tepid flume]

i didn't want to destroy the reference for people that get it

[meager solstice]

Believe it or not I have a friend (no matter how old the movie/game is) he does not want anything he hasn’t seen spoiled

[tepid flume]

it's still quite playable on private servers (thanks to the modding community :)

[meager solstice]

God I was 10-11 when mw2 came out

I remember getting max prestige level on that game as well

[hallow zealot]

So does the announcement means that the vrchat team considering implementing the benefits of some mods officialy to vrchat?

[vocal shard]

wait

is the announcment a april fools joke or are they finally going to work together?

[tepid flume]

it's not a april fools joke

[obtuse edge]

Perfect timing to post it lmao

[coarse blaze]

Idk why but they have the perfect timing for such things

[hallow zealot]

Lol good occasion xD but i think its serious enough for a lot of ppl

[coarse blaze]

Last year Udon was the april fools joke, this year it’s modders forcing vrc devteam to bend the knee

[meager solstice]

I mean technically it was posted before midnight usa time

[hallow zealot]

They simply ignore the existence of april fools day

[tepid flume]

we are gonna try to work something out with them in the near future but it will take some time until something can be said

[tepid flume]

i sure hope so, they wanna stay away from drama if possible :D

[hallow zealot]

It could benefit the whole vrchat community so much. Never used mods myself but i do hear from people that they improve performance, fix bugs and make some QOL improvements that could change the whole experience

Lol yeah

[distant rampart]

The passive ones do, which is the ones they'll probably talk to.

[unborn sorrel]

well imo its a good thing. its a step in a direction where innocent people who just want to optimise their game or just improve enjoyment dont have to worry for little reason.

[tepid flume]

my heart beats fast with the expectation to finally confess my secret crush on tupper /s

[distant rampart]

If things go well, the battlefield will def be shortened now, most of the malicious groups have no excuse anymore besides being malicious.

[unborn sorrel]

for a game that allows a incredible amount of combustibility it shouldn't be seen as bad that people want to customise their experience more.

[vocal shard]

im so glad out of this outcome

[unborn sorrel]

and yes i have to agree with that

[distant rampart]

This is literally a reverse direction from the other path they were going so if it goes well, we'll hopefully start seeing improvements

[unborn sorrel]

malicious groups get away with it because of it being like that. if it gets more accepted then we are able to weed out the more malicious individuals

[coarse blaze]

what if all of this is just a massive masterplan by the devs and everything is going according to plan

[meager solstice]

I’m more curious about the roadmap

[distant rampart]

It won't stop them but it will def shorten the search on them.

[unborn sorrel]

it would also allow for increased security

[hallow zealot]

I mean the non malicious mods state exactly what they do and they prove it.
I crash so many times and have such a bad performance unlike any other game and these mods might be the answer

It is a big step forward indeed

[vocal shard]

yeah joined forces now there should be a way to implement qol bugfix stuff neatly into vanilla client, then create a way interally in vrc dev team of a launcher/client detection & file integrity to yeet out malicious client users/mods

[distant rampart]

And they already did the verifying thing so if they got incorperated somehow, they already have experience verifying and combating more hostile mods.

[vocal shard]

The roadmap was the April first joke~

[meager solstice]

oof

[vocal shard]

best stuff ever. we living in the best timeline

[unborn sorrel]

maybe even a vrchat approved loader that has peramiters to prevent shit like crasher clients and ripper clients

[distant rampart]

One of the ones I looked into I'm curious about

[meager solstice]

So like a white listed “plugin” folder?

[distant rampart]

is the anti shader crash, it apparently rewrites entire shaders and stops all shader crashing, if that got added in it would destroy that.

[vocal shard]

blessed

[unborn sorrel]

i mean i guess. or a loader that is easier to dettect mallicous stuff

[distant rampart]

That or maybe code will get reviewed and added in.

[vocal shard]

[meager solstice]

I kinda like my idea a bit more, where a “plugin” folder is added and vrchat manually looks through the code and either accepts or denies it.

[vocal shard]

[distant rampart]

That would be a bit easy to bypass

[exotic ether]

I have a shader blacklist , and it keeps said blacklisted shaders from showimg up -u-

[vocal shard]

<3based decision<3

[distant rampart]

A mod could fake being another mod.

[unborn sorrel]

those are fucking godly

[meager solstice]

True

[distant rampart]

The thing they had completely stops that you can see them all and it doesn't crash you, it rewrote them from the ground up.

[unborn sorrel]

like imagine if vrchat moders and devs both created a shader blacklist

[vocal shard]

file integrity

[exotic ether]

They jus show up as completely white an dont do anything to me its fun -u-

[unborn sorrel]

checksums

[vocal shard]

but thats intrusive on the pc a bit but i would be ok witg it

[meager solstice]

Real question is tho, when is vrc getting added to gamepass?

[vocal shard]

as long as it eliminates malicious shit

[distant rampart]

I wouldn't mind a official loader on vrchat, and similar to avatars mod creators can upload for approval.

[unborn sorrel]

this is a fucking godly turn

[meager solstice]

It would work, guess we shall wait and see how they continue forward

[unborn sorrel]

like legit if this is a april fools prank its a shame

[distant rampart]

If it was a prank they'd prob get double or 3x the backlash

I don't think they'd do that.

[vocal shard]

this

[tepid flume]

we have proven for years that its possible to distribute mods in a controlled and non-malicious manner. we have a really good reputation inside the community which i'm very grateful for

[tepid flume]

it's not

[distant rampart]

And like I said if that comes in officially, oh my gosh imagine the other servers, no one would have a excuse for the bad mods anymore then you can truly say 'you screwed up' when they get banned.

[tepid flume]

yep ^_^

[coarse blaze]

Just make people unable to rip my avatar in-game, all I want :(

[distant rampart]

Prob not possible

[meager solstice]

No game has ever done that

[distant rampart]

Once loaded into memory its rippable goes for any game.

[coarse blaze]

I mean if they rip it thru files it’s w/e anyways

[vocal shard]

hey look at that, cry long enough and you get what you want

[tepid flume]

it's impossible to completely avoid that. but its easy to improve on what vrchat is doing with avatars currently :)

[exotic ether]

Theres a mod called Anti Uploader -u-

[coarse blaze]

I mean like I don’t want people to just be able to CLICK lmao ur avatar mine

[meager solstice]

I mean, no game has ever stopped ripping nor will they ever. Expecting vrc to come up with a miracle solution is just over expecting

[vocal shard]

and there is a mod called anti anti uploader -n-

heyo I have a question, is it ok using mods like download fix?

no

[distant rampart]

its kinda the same with mods, even if they had banned them, modders wouldn't really stop good or not.

[vocal shard]

read the announcement

yes, it just my english is not the best, so I didn't understand 100%

[distant rampart]

As TOS currently stands no, maybe in the future things COULD change or a alternative, but no mods are allowed.

[coarse blaze]

If they rip it from the files that’s dedication and they probably really wanted it which is kinda ok for my 20€, but someone being able to just click ingame and take 20€ out of my pocket just makes me sad

[vocal shard]

i cant wait until i get my vr headset

[vocal shard]

thank you <3

[meager solstice]

What’s the difference

[vocal shard]

..

[distant rampart]

Sadly there's nothing you can do, once something is in memory its easy to rip from any game, some avatar creators I think found ways to troll it but they can't stop it.

[meager solstice]

What headset u getting?

[vocal shard]

in the old days, the first method was difficult and a fairly long and annoying process so you really needed to hate that person if you wanted to annoy him by stealing his avatar

[coarse blaze]

One takes effort and 99% of the people won’t go through it, the other takes 0 effort and ruins the uniqueness of an avatar because they’ll probably upload it publicly everywhere they can

[meager solstice]

That is not true

[vocal shard]

thankfully, now with 2 tools and a few button press you can rip any avatar you want

[royal shore]

why am i suddenly starting to have ungodly lag

[vocal shard]

oculus quest 2

[vocal shard]

yeah it is true

[coarse blaze]

Like I don’t care if I get crashed n such, i just want to at least feel somewhat safe with my avatar in public

[vocal shard]

you'll never be safe then

[distant rampart]

Word of advice, once its public in any way. (Loaded in memory) it can be stolen, I worked on smaller projects and I go in with that mindset, so its best not to worry.

[vocal shard]

as soon as someone rendered/downloaded your avatar, it can be ripped

[meager solstice]

^ just like any game tho this isn’t vrc specific

[coarse blaze]

So my messages were completely skimmed and not properly read

[distant rampart]

They were read, but theres nothing a mod nor vrchat can do for this they can make it tougher but its not possible.

[coarse blaze]

It’s like you ignore the fact that I’m aware of it lol (not you operator)

[distant rampart]

(oh ok)

[unborn sorrel]

still

[coarse blaze]

What I meant is I want people to at least put in effort into stealing my 20€ lol

[meager solstice]

@coarse blaze no one is ignoring u, ur just not understanding. So I’ll explain it the only way to really prevent the thing is to never leave a private world with it

[coarse blaze]

Nobody said anything about me being ignored

[vocal shard]

what is the best game to play in vr?

[distant rampart]

half life alyx was nice

[coarse blaze]

How do you twist my words so much jesus

[vocal shard]

ok

[meager solstice]

I mean I would say skimming through and misunderstanding is pretty much ignoring

Sorry wrong word I guess....... @coarse blaze my suggestion if u care that much about ur model. Simply don’t upload it

So it’s nice and safe

[coarse blaze]

I just can’t use it in public sadly lol

[meager solstice]

Do u have a pc strong enough for vr?

[vocal shard]

hmm not really

[meager solstice]

Then u will only be limited to quest games. Beat saber, vrc, (I think Rec room)

[coarse blaze]

I mean, I have played the game for 3 years (with a break of 1) and had my model ripped only once in front of my eyes by a guy trying to show me sth, but it was a beginner model that I uploaded lol

[vocal shard]

oh..

[coarse blaze]

Kinda sad that if there exists a probability for crime, someone WILL commit it

[meager solstice]

I mean, it’s the way of life.

I wouldn’t be worried tbh about someone ripping ur model

But then again I don’t care if mine is ripped

[coarse blaze]

I’m not worried if it’s one of the shittier models I have, but the one I use all the time is like the magnum opus

[pearl loom]

Ripping and force cloning are two separate things

[coarse blaze]

The mods do both

They force clone and can also download the unitypackage from what I heard

They only don’t get the shaders cause shaders are apparently coded or sth?

[vocal shard]

Compiled.

They also wont get face gestures, they'd need to remake the anims.

[distant rampart]

Shaders also break

[coarse blaze]

Well, at least that’s nice then

[vocal shard]

also scripts

Blendshapes are on the mesh, but not the .anim - They become CRC32's.

@vocal shard They can be grabbed via loadbundle.

oh never knew that, i dont rip 😄

[pearl loom]

Ripping sounds complicated and a waste of time

[coarse blaze]

And people still do it out of spite

[pearl loom]

When there's 99% chance theres a better public avatar out there

[unborn sorrel]

That’s so true

[vocal shard]

Correct.

[vast tulip]

Will literally be impossible. If AAA devs can't stop their assets being ripped no one can really. The only chance would be for Unity to make big changes to try and prevent it, which I doubt they would ever bother to care about asset ripping

[coarse blaze]

Hence why I specifically mentioned “in-game”

[vocal shard]

Actually, I co-dev a antirip. AV3 and intrusive af though sadly.

[vocal shard]

I only wear public avatars.

[pearl loom]

Same tbh

[coarse blaze]

A.k.a just make them unable to do it through mods

[pearl loom]

And they are avatars people pay 20€ for

[coarse blaze]

If sm1 hardrips my avatar just let them have it lol

[vocal shard]

They are the best. I love it when I notice the version changes.

[vast tulip]

In-game is just a fancy button to do a bunch of out of games scripts that then let you have it in game

[vocal shard]

It is like an upgrade

[vocal shard]

but cant it also mess with the ripper's pc if they tried to?

The antirip me and a microsoft XR employee work on obfuscates/encrypts the mesh, meaning without the 4 keys, it cannot be undone.

[coarse blaze]

Yeah but a lot of people won’t bother with it if they don’t have a button that does it for them

[vocal shard]

But due to such, it is very intrusive.

[vocal shard]

oh thats cool tho

[fringe glade]

When people rip my stuff I laugh and send them the package because I cba to see a low version of my stuff around kek, but yeah the fact that they can re-upload it with a click (that's another thing.) Is a bit of a yike

[pearl loom]

Reupload with a click?

[vocal shard]

Yes, sadly a malicious mod maker made a mod to do that.

[coarse blaze]

At least imo avatar stealing/ripping is such an issue in vrc is because they can do it with literally a click on their screen and without doing any research on how to do it

[pearl loom]

Dont need to go through the pain that is vrchat sdk?

[vocal shard]

nope

[fringe glade]

Yep. Direct upload of the .vrca into their account.

[vocal shard]

With my antirip though, they would not know the keys.

[coarse blaze]

So if you make it so that they can’t use that button anymore, ripping rates will go down a lot

[vocal shard]

?

[pearl loom]

Why the heck dont they make it official "avatar upload helper" tool

[vocal shard]

You don't need mods for ripping

@vast tulip Permission to link the antirip github?

[fringe glade]

It's indeed the case.

[coarse blaze]

Do you purposely ignore the rest of the messages?

[fringe glade]

It's all about accessibility @vocal shard

[vocal shard]

Fair

[vocal shard]

if it's a modded client then no

[pearl loom]

Vrc sdk is so complicated Id rather not upload anything

[vocal shard]

It is not a client.

[pearl loom]

Why is there a cooldown now

[vocal shard]

its not

[vocal shard]

Noh, just responded before further scrolling down

All AV3 unity work.

[vocal shard]

If it is what I've looked at, it's a joke. It costs someone maybe a few minutes to rename the shapekeys but that's about all the protection you offer against someone 'dumping' it.

[vocal shard]

people were crying too much, they had to slow things down

[vocal shard]

Same

@vocal shard It is not via shapekeys. It modifies the mesh directly.

[pearl loom]

But nobody is crying here

[worthy oracle]

You’re making a public anti rip?

[vocal shard]

Correct, with a Microsoft XR employee too.

https://booth.pm/en/items/2788855 was it this thing? Fits your description.

[vast tulip]

Nope. See rule 9. Unless this isn't a modified client thing?

[worthy oracle]

That’s quite impressive and also really cool.

[vocal shard]

It is all unity avatar work, and it is free. It is not that, Beh.

[vocal shard]

Free source for people to make a de-anti rip then. But very cool!

[worthy oracle]

I’m interested to see how it works

[coarse blaze]

Wait it’s through unity?

[vocal shard]

Correct. Avatar 3.0.

[coarse blaze]

Fuck, unless I can import my 2.0 into 3.0 and keep it a 1:1 copy

[worthy oracle]

Aww, I don’t mess with 3.0 tbh

[coarse blaze]

That’d be the perfect tool

[vocal shard]

Sadly it depends on avatar 3.0.

[fringe glade]

The latest announcement is very interesting tho, just took the time to read it

[worthy oracle]

Perhaps I could learn tho, it’s just extra work for what I personally do with avatars. Gameobject toggles, I do keyframes

[vocal shard]

https://github.com/rygo6/GTAvaCrypt - Not a modded client at all, avatar 3.0 & unity.

[vocal shard]

Any more info I can read up on? Is it public yet?

[fringe glade]

We'll see how far it goes, I wish for vrchat to officially support some mods so I can finally bitch slap some asses in game 👀

[worthy oracle]

Cool thing though, to have something of a level that works. But what I find interesting is that an anti rip ensures the original avatar works perfectly, while making the .vrca messy.

[coarse blaze]

I assume at least that I can’t convert sdk2 avatar to sdk3 with just few clicks 🤔

[worthy oracle]

Actually not sure how all that works but pretty neat to see someone is working on one.

[vocal shard]

@coarse blaze Someone may have made a script to do it somewhere, I haven't ran into it, though.

[vocal shard]

I see

Also do note it may not work on every mesh.

[tepid flume]

Nice to see the reason why the devs hate mods here

[vocal shard]

?

?

what are you talking about

[worthy oracle]

Looking at it now.. pretty interesting. Very impressive to say the least

[coarse blaze]

Plague literally posted a non-mod that can potentially make, for example, public worlds playable

[tepid flume]

he made a lot of malicious crap for vrchag and stirred up crap in our wholesome community more than once

[vocal shard]

There are some downfalls, like people do need to show your avatar or you'll be a jumbled mess.

source ?

I made an anticrash mod. Also not to be talked of here.

[fringe glade]

That's very interesting, I wonder how complicated would it be to change a shader to make it compatible tho.

[coarse blaze]

Why show avatar specifically tho 🤔

[tepid flume]

ask on the vrcmg discord

[vocal shard]

I'm not going to ask anything anywhere
you claim something, you are the one that needs to prove it

[fringe glade]

It's using shaders to mess the mesh instead of blendshapes @coarse blaze

[vocal shard]

Isn't that directing people to break TOS?

[fringe glade]

So if they aren't showing your avatar, you'll be a standard shader mess.

[coarse blaze]

Yeah but if a person has no safety settings the show avatar button has kinda no effect, no?

[tepid flume]

noone forces you to believe me ;)

[vocal shard]

so it's just bullshit, once again, got it

@tepid flume I asked

[tepid flume]

How many of your 50 accounts are still banned?

[vocal shard]

In there

None.

I also only have 4 accounts.

Just because you do not like how someone handles developing an anticrash mod does not permit slandering them.

[fringe glade]

What about not starting a stupid rant on the vrc discord and contacting the moderation team of it and let them decide if there's an actual problem

[vocal shard]

^

Yep

[waxen oak]

Sa

Hey kimse var mı

[fringe glade]

Anyways it's time to get up and work on my world a bit, udon is painful without knowledge, it's a bit like reading this chat sometimes

[vocal shard]

If one wants actual context on this convo, feel free to add and dm me, and I'll properly explain it. Case closed.

Also TFW the crasher is confused why he can't crash the guy with 2TBs of ram 🤣

[coarse blaze]

Why and how the FUCK do you have 2TB of ram

[vocal shard]

That much would not stop crashers, as most are just infinite for loops.

[raven heath]

he owns a business

[vocal shard]

I know a guy that uses server hardware as he's daily driver

[worthy oracle]

???

[fringe glade]

That'd be good enough for infinite loops but that's about it, no one use these to crash anymore do they ?

[vocal shard]

ECC gets around infinite loops

They are seen as errors on the hardware level

[vocal shard]

They do

[tepid flume]

They were informed long ago but decided to stop caring when they realized he isnt easy to get rid of

[fringe glade]

Meh, they do be bad at it even after years of it being around

[crisp anvil]

Wow, just read the announcement. That was unexpected. Huge respect for the devs

[fringe glade]

Understandable, getting rid of a Plague is hard

kekw

[vocal shard]

Plague is just my name. It does not mean the plague.

[fringe glade]

Take a lil joke will ya 👀

[vocal shard]

Well the only people that would hate an anti crasher are crashers

^

If you don't have the hardware to handle it....you need software to do it

[coarse blaze]

I’m so confused on who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy

[vocal shard]

Sadly.

@coarse blaze That falls on you. No one is here to force an opinion.

[late void]

So about that anti ripping thing, it's a shader?? Does that mean if I disable shaders on that persons avatar is the mesh going to look messed up in game

[vocal shard]

White hats get crapped on as well sadly

[fringe glade]

Who use crashes in 2021 anyways, the real gang monkeys of 2019 are either gone or turned into femboys or drinkers sometimes both at the same time

[tepid flume]

At one time you could pay him to be able to crash his "protected" users :D

[vocal shard]

It is a shader and script that modifies your mesh. @late void

[late void]

Ok so if I hide someone's shaders they're mesh will look messed up in game?

[vocal shard]

That's a hell of an accusation

@tepid flume This is not correct. You would either get it free or pay and be heavily moderated to be allowed to use them defensively, only at extreme situations. Do not spread misinformation.

[pearl loom]

[tepid flume]

It will take time to dig that up but its all provable

[fringe glade]

Dig it first, post proof when accusing.

[vocal shard]

The reason I added it was a underage person being force joined by a pedo over and over. It is not for everyone, and it does not permit using them non defensively at all.

[fringe glade]

Not the other way around

[vocal shard]

Hey this isn't the place to bring this up anyway. If you have a problem with plague bring it up with the mods

I will post a screenshot of the post about it in #general-media if need-be.

[raven heath]

slob on my knob

[tepid flume]

Nah, if i wanted i could probably write a whole blogpost on this person, but we also started to stop caring at some point because he became too much of a hassle

[vocal shard]

But this slander is pretty low.

[late void]

Also if it is a shader... That means I can't use any other shaders on my avatar... So this anti ripping shader your making will be extremely limited

[simple wyvern]

My corn on the cob

[vocal shard]

@late void There is a poiyomi mod for it.

[late void]

Ah, cool then

[coarse blaze]

unity mod, not vrchat

[simple wyvern]

Ayyoo lmao

[vocal shard]

Poiyomi's shaders are my favorite

Same, pretty well made.

Yes

[fringe glade]

@simple wyvern you know i'm right

[late void]

So well made they rely on a 3rd party tool

[vocal shard]

Poi? It doesn't. Thry is just to make the UI nicer.

[fringe glade]

Thry's been working with poiyomi since the beginning, both stuff goes together

[vocal shard]

It can work without it.

[fringe glade]

But you can use poiyomi without thry if needed, it's just gonna look like an unity shader

[worthy oracle]

aka very ugly

UI wise

[late void]

Hm. I guess I was misinformed then

[fringe glade]

Yeah, that's the point of Thry, making good looking UI xd

[simple wyvern]

I'm only like 2 weeks into vr chat but it seems alcoholic femboys all that I run into in publics

[fringe glade]

You've yet to see the friends+ communities drinking parties then

[vocal shard]

Imma go in VR and chill, seems like the slandering is over.

[simple wyvern]

That and kids with inappropriate avatars

[vocal shard]

Cya everyone ❤️

[fringe glade]

Have fun on your journey and.. don't get to close to the dark

[vocal shard]

Gn

[simple wyvern]

Nah I need in one

[pearl loom]

You've yet to see invite+ drinking parties

[fringe glade]

Night gamer

[coarse blaze]

You’ve yet to see IRL+ drinking parties

🤔

[simple wyvern]

Sometimes I'd like to socially drink without having to drive lol

[coarse blaze]

Just be an abstinent like me

[simple wyvern]

Used to do Xbox drinking parties all the time

[fringe glade]

Is there demi demons doing suggestives thing to me in these irl+ party ? If yes please where is it

[pearl loom]

Irl+ drinking parties are alright, but I prefer invite+

[coarse blaze]

60+ ppl at a prom night? Me and the boys the only 3 ppl sober lul

[fringe glade]

If you're sober you're doing it wrong

[simple wyvern]

Sad. So sad

[coarse blaze]

Why sad? We had tons of fun

[simple wyvern]

Prom is more fun blurry

[coarse blaze]

Especially when we could see the drunk people act wild

[potent fern]

can someone help me

[fringe glade]

No

[simple wyvern]

I'm sorry I cannot due to your name

[potent fern]

i love piss though<3

[fringe glade]

See, that's why vrchat is a weirdchamp.

[coarse blaze]

I personally just dislike the burning aftertaste of alcohol not to mention most of it tastes like shit anyways so I opted to never drink again

[simple wyvern]

It's like a collection of niche sex lovers

[fringe glade]

You didn't drink the right alcohol then, there's one for everyone tbh

After all these years trust me I know that very well xd

[simple wyvern]

Don't blame you at all. I don't like the first shot myself. Usually just take a chaser n suck it up.

[coarse blaze]

Eh, I’ve drunk all kinda stuff, even the mixed ones and the ones you set on fire, I liked only red wine

And champagne but that a different breed of alcohol

[deft flame]

So true in this considering all the 18+ communities xD

[fringe glade]

As a frenchie i get drunk from wine quite a lot lmao

[simple wyvern]

Learned alot over my 2 weeks in this game. Try my best not to be judgemental but when a mf love piss I can't help it

[fringe glade]

Just be french 🍷

[coarse blaze]

I mean, Half of the blood in my body is Russian so technically I should like strong drinks especially when I look at my dad

But if anything the stronger the drink the more I dislike it

[simple wyvern]

Alcohol ain't for everyone bro. Just smoke some weed instead 😁

[coarse blaze]

I used to smoke when I was 13, fuck that shit lol

[simple wyvern]

I remember smoking at 14 out of a can lol

[coarse blaze]

Complete waste of money and health I say after I pour my gfuel into my shaker

[simple wyvern]

I mean idk how old you are now but judging a reaction you had at 13 to now is irresponsible lol

[coarse blaze]

I’m 21 atm

[simple wyvern]

And it's healthier than public perception let's off

[coarse blaze]

I smoked for like a month, dropped it, 5 months later I tried again but turns out it was just chemical weed or some chemical shit disguised as tobaco so I threw up 24 times in one toilet session

Since that day not another cig touched my mouth

[simple wyvern]

Oh yeah that k2 shit that's been going around

[coarse blaze]

It was in 2011-2012 so not sure if you mean the same stuff

[simple wyvern]

Yeah that's when it first came out. A little before that

[coarse blaze]

They told me it was a normal cigarette, but years later a guy told me it was probably chemical weed since it was popular in my area lul

No other reason for me to throw up so hard apparently

[simple wyvern]

Only thing that would do that to you. Never heard of a reaction like that from anything but that

[coarse blaze]

I still remember just hanging my head over the toilet bowl for like a solid hour, I just hope I never have to experience it again

Especially the pain of feeling your literal stomach juice on your tongue at that point

[simple wyvern]

Stay away from drinking

[coarse blaze]

I do, I haven’t taken a sip since like 15 lul

[loud gale]

Not a single vrchat room I haven't walked into to not be calleda furry

[deft flame]

are you using a furry avatar?

[loud gale]

I'm using a horse.

[deft flame]

well why are you surprised then

[jagged herald]

hi

[loud gale]

I'm literally using an animal.

Not a anthromorph of any kind.

[deft flame]

still its an animal most normies cant understand the difference

[river ibex]

A

[loud gale]

So everyone on vrchat is a weeb or furry or both.

[river ibex]

Humans are animals too xd

[loud gale]

Makes sense.

[river ibex]

Let's talk about #announcements . is this an april's fool joke? Because if is a joke I'm going to leave the game.

[surreal crypt]

the conversation has been going on for the past few days so no not a joke

[fringe glade]

It was posted before april 1.

[terse tulip]

^ thought the same

[fringe glade]

Timezone stuff you know.

[river ibex]

yeah, was at 3 AM in Europe

[tardy finch]

Not a joke.

[coarse blaze]

Actually professional lurker

[tardy finch]

[river ibex]

We are asking for this for a long time. Vrchat developers never listen us.

[coarse blaze]

also I may or may not have yoinked one of your emotes Zixha

[tardy finch]

I can't stop you lol

[loud gale]

This is the insert here we go again

[coarse blaze]

Gotta confess to meme/emote theft at least

[fringe glade]

@river ibex a hashtag and subcriptions cancel and here we are, to be fair most of the mods creators knew stuff would eventually happen, can't really act surprised when everything is on github / discord, but it's going slowly into the direction it should've been going since the beginning.

[coarse blaze]

I still wanna stick to a conspiracy that everything was just a massive masterplan by the devs and everything is going according to plan

[fringe glade]

We will see how it goes from here, only good things can come out of a situation like that if both parties shallow it up and work together.

[sharp rose]

@tardy finch btw i did a thing

dont tell tupper tho

[tardy finch]

what did you do

[coarse blaze]

He also committed emote theft

[sharp rose]

yoink

[tardy finch]

oh no

[river ibex]

But what did they expect? We know that it is their game and you do not allow them to make modifications to it. But if thousands of your users (clients) are using these modifications, it will be because your game is broken and you need to use them legally.

[vocal shard]

exactly 0 shame while doing it

[marble totem]

This wasn't even a case of "both parties" needing to come to the table. This was a case of VRChat sending threats to modders, and then deciding it would be a good idea to go a step further and threaten a guy who makes tools for modding Unity in general.

It was just dumb.

[fringe glade]

With a deobs map of vrc dll on his github

[coarse blaze]

Let us use emotes in everywhere except public lobby and your emote theft will be excused

[fringe glade]

He also need to stop acting like a dumb guy aswell.

[sharp rose]

i dont control that tho

[marble totem]

Deobfuscation maps are not illegal.

[coarse blaze]

Well, you can be our messenger for that

[carmine egret]

I have that emote too

[sharp rose]

waow

[fringe glade]

It is if you follow the ToS. You're not supposed to even peak at the content of the dll

[coarse blaze]

The messiah for emotes being brought back by telling others during the meeting “yo let’s allow emotes again”

[grave haven]

This "generic Unity tool" mentions VRChat specifically by name in code, lists VRChat as one of 4 officially supported games, and hosts de-obfuscation maps for the client.

[hidden veldt]

Holy shit, never thought I'd see the day

[muted wharf]

I want my :dead: too :v

[grave haven]

They added specific code just for vrchat

[marble totem]

That's a matter of contract law with a shaky history in court.

[river ibex]

We can make a list of the most useful and necessary mods that improve the gameplay and performance of VRChat.
And yes, attacking mod developers directly was grossly stupid. They did the "attack the root of the problem" thing, but you didn't fix the public API thing.

[sharp rose]

you could borrow it

[tardy finch]

[muted wharf]

too lazy to make the emoji tbh

[coarse blaze]

Feed the hamsters and I tell you the secret ways of emote theft

[fringe glade]

It's a question of being transparent tbh

[carmine egret]

I wanna use custom emotes too :D

[fringe glade]

@river ibex take your time to answer silent gdoc and provide the said list like I did

[sharp rose]

i could be flying crashing VR planes rn

but chats

[fringe glade]

I'm a vanilla user since the beginning because i cba to install anything that might be broken when game update or mess with my world developping

[river ibex]

I did it a long time ago, and you know what's funny? They laughed at me.

[fringe glade]

But some qol stuff look gucci

[carmine egret]

Dynamic bones being global sounds very gucci

[fringe glade]

The said google forms been out for 2 days tho

It's moving the right way, gotta see it like that

[marble totem]

There was a security bug out for a long time that mods had fixed for years

It was a one-line fix

[river ibex]

Exactly, me too. I'm user since October 2017.
So VRChat was updated many times adding new things. There was a long season in 2019-2020 where updates came 1 time a month and were tiny, that's when the mods arrived.

[fringe glade]

Tbh mods arrived when crashing got discovered lmao

[carmine egret]

Perhaps something changes now and they'll get inspired by mods and start implementing some things that everyone likes in them into VRChat so people don't have to risk using anything

[marble totem]

Don't hold your breath.

[carmine egret]

😄

[fringe glade]

Tbf, that'd be great but we can't be sure of anything.

Buuut it is going the right way.

[carmine egret]

yep but who knows.. Global dynamic bones coming soon 🤔

[fringe glade]

Gotta look at it this way: VRC been going the right way for some months and keep improving.

[marble totem]

I suspect what will happen is they'll back off for now, let things die down, then go right back to business in a few weeks.

[fringe glade]

People thinking or saying that the game is legit going downhill are delusional tbh

[river ibex]

The problem is that they cannot add options on PC that are not in Quest. You know, the contract they have.

[vocal shard]

the game is dying

[carmine egret]

🤔

[fringe glade]

But hey, there's shit on the canny since 2017-2018

[umbral reef]

Not sure what you smoked to imagine they cant do that, but the literally have done so a few updates ago

[sharp rose]

Isn't what we said, isn't the gameplan either. 🙂

[fringe glade]

@river ibex quest don't have dynamic bones support so i doubt that this is true lol

[river ibex]

Lol, true, hahaha.

[marble totem]

Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it.

[carmine egret]

Yea.. Not only dynamic bones.. there's bunch of stuff only for PC

[fringe glade]

Yup

[umbral reef]

All of VRC+

[carmine egret]

So idk.. Kinda doubt it ? but Whoknows

[river ibex]

8-13 year olds playing VRChat in Quest. Who controls that?

[fringe glade]

Just the first example i had in head

[sharp rose]

Fair position to be in, don't blame you for being skeptical. All we can do is try to do right by you with actions.

Id be too in your shoes, honestly.

[fringe glade]

I honestly wish for an official modding plateform

[distant rampart]

A official platform of approved mods would be pretty nice tbh

[river ibex]

+10

[fringe glade]

Pls gib nexus.com/vrc

[marble totem]

I offered to help them with one, but they weren't interested.

[fringe glade]

I mean i'd understand that lol, they could easily make one emself and implement it in game or smh

[sharp rose]

It's a bit early to be planning anything like that. Announcement is barely six hours old, this will probably be a lengthy, ongoing thing. Not a small situation to solve. 😛

[marble totem]

It's not as simple as it sounds.

[distant rampart]

yeak ik, but we can dream

[sharp rose]

yep, nothing wrong with that either 😄

[marble totem]

Even simple DLL injection can be quite complex, depending on requirements

[fringe glade]

We'll see how it goes anyway !

[pastel storm]

I really hope after they come to an agreement with modders on what features to add that they take action against the rest of the modded client users that use it for malicious stuff because they're everywhere, almost every instance

[carmine egret]

+10000

[distant rampart]

Well I think I have a idea who they'll talk to but I wont drop names but we all know, lol.

[marble totem]

Best case would be a Lua interpeter embedded in the client, would offer the best level of control and security.

[carmine egret]

I think everyone knows the name without dropping names..

[sharp rose]

Hank Hill. 😤

[carmine egret]

🤔

[sharp rose]

has a wide line of propane mods

[distant rampart]

They're asking the watchdogs guy Aiden Pearce

[sharp rose]

man, if aiden was real and could do that, vrc wouldve been built from scratch to completion in like a week XD

-press phone-
VRC

[carmine egret]

😄

[distant rampart]

Know what I would personally like to see with possible Mod to Vrchat communication, if the modders end up helping the game more by combating the malicious mods ontop of vrchats fixes.

[umbral reef]

Aidens real super power was to freeze time for everyone including the gamer to product the tech and software he uses

[sharp rose]

XD

[marble totem]

I hope to God he gets a good lawyer when he's in negotiations, and before he signs things

[unborn sorrel]

I just think it would be nice to not ban mods and focus on malicious ones

[marble totem]

NDAs and such can be lengthy but offer tons of opportunities to screw your over.

[distant rampart]

Yep I think that was the goal for most of the passive ones.

[sharp rose]

That's a bit pre-emptive. These are casual talks planned, not anything complicated like that. Way too early to jump that gun.

[unborn sorrel]

Cuz non malicious stuff that’s allowed have no reason to hide if it’s ok

[distant rampart]

Focus on the real problem and not the ones helping the game.

[river ibex]

There is a phrase that says "until you see the ears of the wolf you will not begin to take the situation seriously".
Many other platforms like VRChat have started to gain ground and users are migrating.
It wasn't very difficult to realize that your community is unhappy with everything the developers were doing to the game.

I hope this goes forward. Take the money from VRC + and use it to hire new programmers or pay modders and improve client-server security.

[carmine egret]

Yep

[umbral reef]

Not sure how an NDA can screw you over beside 'dont spill the beans' as everything past that aint an NDA and wont hold up

[marble totem]

@sharp rose It's always "preliminary" but it's best to have someone present to be sure you don't say something stupid

[sharp rose]

I didnt actually use the word "preliminary", nor have any of us. :p

[grave haven]

They already did hire more programmers recently

[fringe glade]

@river ibex if you actually check the playerbase... That statement iS not that true, the game id actually doing alright af but the people leaving make a l ot of noise.

[river ibex]

I'm really happy about it, really.

[unborn sorrel]

Bro you probably believe that all the devs go around frying pc’s

[distant rampart]

@sharp rose I will say one thing if talks go well and we start seeing modders officially combating toxic mods I'm gonna play epic anime music on the spot. 👽

[unborn sorrel]

I get sick of people talking about other platforms that mostly die “lavender”

[marble totem]

One of my employers had me keep quiet about some embezzlement via an NDA and a threat to "blackball" me from the industry.

[sharp rose]

Think maybe there's some confusion around seeing this whole thing as "VRC vs modders", it's not about that. It's a singular community (made of both of us), facing a singular issue as a community.

[fringe glade]

And that's also what happened recently: they took actions on the silent majority by touching the mods they use, which made a lot of noise.

[sharp rose]

N3X is right about that, there are people who will try to abuse that kind of thing. His caution isn't unwarranted.

[grave haven]

"silent majority"

[feral blade]

There is Nuance to Everything , the game is Bad, work is Slow, people are getting Sick of it after playing continously for years on end

[unborn sorrel]

And that’s how it should be. If both sides (modders and devs) were to work together the product could be insane

[white cairn]

Ban modders, ban people that use modded clients. Ban people justify using modded clients. End of discussion.

[distant rampart]

To be honest that's why this approach is prob better for the long run, find out why and how mods work, and then ya can focus on the toxic ones.

[umbral reef]

Yea, beside that it wont hold up if you talk about that.
Any unethical act can be reported and any illegal also can be reported without any form of punishment including getting fired for it.
Even the courts where you dont get to bring a lawyer are really clear and quick on in this in any western country.

[jolly ether]

@river ibex stinky

[umbral reef]

The blackmailing had nothing to do with the NDA anyway 🤷‍♀️

[marble totem]

He was a mexican national, so couldn't touch him legally.

[river ibex]

Hi Pillow.

[carmine egret]

🤔

[distant rampart]

I mean one thing def could come out of it as well, some of the passive ones know how the aggressive ones work so thats a bonus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lOT2p_FCvA moment

[sharp rose]

Not gonna comment on anything that granular this early. Again, only 6 hours since announcement. Need some time here 😛

[distant rampart]

I know I'm talking technically

It would have some bonuses.

[fringe glade]

@grave haven when the playerbase is about 20 to 40k couning quests and one mod got about 10k+ well yea it kinda is xd

But it is what it is tbh. We'll see how it goes.

[unborn sorrel]

Your fun at parties aren’t u

[white cairn]

The people that create mod tools are responsible for the people who use those tools to abuse the game. It is all TOS breaking, it is all bad for the game, and it should be stamped out as much as possible.

[sharp rose]

That is very much not what this is about.

[umbral reef]

40K at a specific moment vs 10K static total
VRC has a lot more players daily then the 40 that get online at the same time

[distant rampart]

Well to be fair if things go well, anyone using a mod past that point have no excuse, as most of it would be more officially accepted, they'd have no reason past maliciousness.

Battlefield closes a bit more in on them.

[unborn sorrel]

We are litteraly making steps in the right direction to make more people happy. Can you please stop whining

[river ibex]

@sharp rose A user created a form asking about the use of mods. I could leave it here for you to take a look at and perhaps you could do the same to take general ideas.

[sharp rose]

Never been a fan of the sledgehammer/draconic "zero tolerance" approach, that's not realistic for us or for the community.

[white cairn]

This does not make more people happy. This makes more people use mods.

[fringe glade]

@white cairn modding skyrim is against ToS.

[carmine egret]

From statistics from one unnamed server more than 60% of active VRChat users use some form of a mod

[unborn sorrel]

Bro it allows for so many improvements

[fringe glade]

Do you do it ?

[white cairn]

This is an absolute clanger of a mistake and I think it will be blatantly obvious why in short order.

[distant rampart]

For this smaller project I have I realized people modding the game was annoying, but I considered that people will do it either way, so I only went after the ones ruining it for others, it keeps people more calm it seems.

[unborn sorrel]

You sir are a good man

[marble totem]

Nice of you to speak up now.

[white cairn]

Will refrain from commenting further. Modding VRC is now kosher apparently and that is not OK.

[distant rampart]

It's not, but things may change for the passive side.

[unborn sorrel]

Not every modded is crashing and ripping
Not every mod is malicious

Most are designed to improve user experience

[marble totem]

local man has not actually read the announcement

[river ibex]

Thanks.

[fringe glade]

But the actions has been taken on QoL since the toxic stuff isn't public.

[unborn sorrel]

They never said they were ok with it they said that they started a dialogue with the developers of mods

[carmine egret]

From your aproach it seems you encountered only crashers, breakers, rippers in your time..

[lapis gulch]

no it is not bethesda literally has mod support and lines in the TOS saying if you put it in their creation library they own it?

[river ibex]

Honestly, I never saw the possibility of downloading a mod that could crash. I don't know where they'll get it from.

[distant rampart]

I def don't support crashers or whatnot, but the passive ones are more benificial to work with than against.

[fringe glade]

@lapis gulch not in the beginning tho, they changed it after a while.

[marble totem]

Hang around the wrong people enough and they'll send you something that'll steal your login credentials.

[unborn sorrel]

As in users of it

[vocal shard]

@white cairn Did you even READ the announcement? lol

[fringe glade]

Which is indeed a good thing, anyways, that's a lot of speaking without any real informations, we'll see how it goes.

[distant rampart]

yeah it all comes down to talks really.

[river ibex]

I know where I join and I know what I do.

[marble totem]

@distant rampart Don't mention specific mods

[fringe glade]

As usual tho, take care of what you're downloading, injecting, using ans make sure it's from a safe source, if it's on github double check the code.

[distant rampart]

Don't mini mod me pls. but ok

[marble totem]

They've been slapping people over it, so friendly heads-up

[vocal shard]

Good Job VRChat you now showed the community if they cry enough they can get what they want
You should have pulled through and not half-ass pussy out of it. The other 60% of the game were happy, now they are upset, It does not matter how, you guys will always upset people no matter what, stop appeasing everyone, and just do what you guys think is right.

[carmine egret]

That's with every mod to every game.. Always make sure its from safe source.. And in every game there are some bad apples among modders

[distant rampart]

I think they are doing what they want, they want a middle ground for both, calm down.

[lapis gulch]

for any code ever imo

[carmine egret]

other 60% 🤔 You mean other 40% tho I think

[vocal shard]

wat

[umbral reef]

They can still do an 'lmao, these fucks didnt even wanna help us, so fuck them, back to the shadowrealm'

[vocal shard]

I am talking PRO NON-Modified client users here

[river ibex]

You do not know what you're missing.

[carmine egret]

about 60%+ users use mods @vocal shard

[distant rampart]

Some people who don't even mod support it after they looked into the situation, just you.

I understand the anger though.

[sharp rose]

Trying to figure how "have a friendly chat with some folks in the community" is "giving in" to anything... hm

[unborn sorrel]

everyone being happy > catering to a group

[umbral reef]

Where did you get that number from beside that 'source'
Or better then, where did that fella get it from, because 60% when an insane amount are quest users is highly unlikely kekw

[carmine egret]

:whoknowsemote:

[carmine egret]

From "source's" usage statistics

[coarse blaze]

I think it’s less of a “if community cries enough” and more of a “modders finally ganged up to make a point to the devs”

[umbral reef]

That still answers nothing 🙃

[lapis gulch]

when you boost just to use your own emotes 😄

[distant rampart]

Ganged up isn't a good word, more like shouted loud enough and got heard.

[coarse blaze]

Cause I very doubt the ones crying were what ultimately made them push that decision lol

[river ibex]

Ah yes, those poor users who complained about buying a promoted headsheet and that when they join VRChat they only saw robots.

[fringe glade]

@vocal shard it's not that bad. Right now we're just back in a "i don't see it i don't take actions" just like before, but if they can implement or whatever some stuff from mods directly into the game, i'll take it

[unborn sorrel]

I mean people would find a way to use clients anyway right. Better to just make everyone happy

[umbral reef]

Not relevant to the thing we where talking about but that do be the sad state of VR

[carmine egret]

Didn¨t know if you boost you get emotes.. 😄

[fringe glade]

The issues is always the bad apples, the one that didn't get anything done to them since they do not have any public repos or anything

[distant rampart]

I think my nitro just ended :(

[sharp rose]

Didn't say that, didn't imply it. Nor has anyone.

[river ibex]

I like to talk about things that people dislike, hahaha.

[coarse blaze]

Around 50% of the players are non-steam users, you can find those statistics by looking at steamtracker and see how many people play vrchat and then use !online here to see how many people are online

[unborn sorrel]

I’m not implying you said anything just a statement

[sharp rose]

Then it's a statement I disagree with

[unborn sorrel]

Tho it’s true. Clients will exist somehow

[distant rampart]

I mean either way people will do bad things which is true, but it may help to have some of the passive ones on vrchats side more than being a 'enemy'.

[lapis gulch]

its a cheat for vrc discord shhh before @sharp rose catches us

[distant rampart]

Just the scope will be different if things go well, or something else similar.

[marble totem]

There are ways of inspecting even the closed-source mods. Have done so for some friends to check for any token-thieving.

[carmine egret]

[sharp rose]

I dont think seeing anyone in the community as "enemy" is conducive to a healthy community. The minute someone is labeled an enemy, hostile intent is assumed. I dont assume hostile intent from anyone without a very compelling reason.

So far, not seen any such reasons. 😄

[fringe glade]

Look at it this way moon: for us, non mods users, it mean we'll potentially get more stuffs. No point on getting jealous from modders what so ever aswell. We'll see how it goes

[distant rampart]

Yeah the previous stance kinda put them on that spot though, so I think this approach is better.

Or atleast may step in a better direction.

[vocal shard]

Sigh

[carmine egret]

Yea.. Probably mistake somewhere from the higherups

[coarse blaze]

The :dead: emote spam at you seemed pretty hostile :^)

[sharp rose]

ffffffffffffffff

[cinder elk]

So is this an april fools announcement or what

[fringe glade]

Just change your perspective @vocal shard it's not that bad nor good. It's just a grey area of stuff

[distant rampart]

No its legit

[unborn sorrel]

The enemy would be rippers and crashes I guess

[sharp rose]

It is not.

[lapis gulch]

it was made on 31st not the 1st

[carmine egret]

[cinder elk]

Inb4 tmr they ban the entire community instead of just mod users

[vocal shard]

I get that, but now theres people that think "OH now its totally fine" Cause they can't read properly, you know how it is

[distant rampart]

I've come to label the good ones "passives" and "aggressives" aggressives being the ones who ruin other peoples experiences.

[coarse blaze]

As I said, it wasn’t the community crying that made them bend the knee, it’s the modders speaking up a lot louder than usual

[cinder elk]

Not where i live anyway

[carmine egret]

Depends on timezone.. For me it was 1st

[lapis gulch]

it was for me too

[marble totem]

@cinder elk They've actually done that a few times. See: the Cloudflare ban

[carmine egret]

But yea for where VRChat is based it was on 31st

[lapis gulch]

#noteuanymore

[fringe glade]

And that's on them ! @vocal shard if they get clapped it's their own fault lmao

[coarse blaze]

In the end the outcome was positive and now the community is a lot more affectionate towards the devs

[unborn sorrel]

@sharp rose I wish you well and hope a middle ground is found soon

[sharp rose]

That wasnt technically us. But it was pretty nuts. XD

[vocal shard]

I'm just not gonna bother anymore, imma go back focusing on Content creation instead now, creating stuff is a good vent for me

[carmine egret]

||https://discord.gift/||||aXzGwrTT6xTTgHKd||

[unborn sorrel]

Me work now

[coarse blaze]

Maybe tupper can finally go out of his cave without having pitchforks and torches thrown at him

[sharp rose]

Likewise, will be happy to work towards a mutually positive outcome for everyone here 😄

[marble totem]

You didn't configure cloudflare properly, so yes.

[cinder elk]

I feel like this isnt gonna cause anyone to start using mods moon, mod users are still likely gonna use mods, and will have regardless of the announcement, and people that dont use mods probably wont start as they might get the features anyway

[carmine egret]

Wonder who got it

[vocal shard]

I was gonna sponsor it to my GF

[unborn sorrel]

I feel it may be more safe for mods in the future

[shrewd edge]

did you ever read the post-mortem on that?

[carmine egret]

Wait noone got it yet 🤔

[unborn sorrel]

Not yet but one day

[marble totem]

Plus, people still get popped for rate-limits which assume you're using an unauthorized client.

[cinder elk]

If anything it may reduce mode users because they respect the vrc devs enough to read what they say lol

[coarse blaze]

I have joined the gang

[umbral reef]

Reading is hard
Like all those letters making words, all those words making sentences and so on
Big complex thing you know

[marble totem]

Which one?

[coarse blaze]

I bent the knee and used one of my free boosts despite not wanting so much

[lapis gulch]

but now youre special

[unborn sorrel]

Good luck with the heard team

[carmine egret]

Who took the nitro 🤔 I wonder

[coarse blaze]

I was always special

[pastel storm]

I think most of us can agree that a positive outcome would be that in some time modded features get added into the game and people who use mods maliciously get banned.. Cuz it's been getting worse lately

[coarse blaze]

Different kind of special, but special

[lapis gulch]

me too check my pfp

[coarse blaze]

I just realised LMAO

[sharp rose]

thought you were sleeping >:U

[unborn sorrel]

Key part is use of them maliciously

[pastel storm]

Yeah

[sharp rose]

lime lied to meh

[lapis gulch]

i have a perfectly healthy sleep schedule where i fall asleep and a cat smacks me in the face repeatedly until i feed him

[sharp rose]

XD

[unborn sorrel]

@sharp rose have a good day btw

[coarse blaze]

At least he only smacks you and doesn’t wake up the entire 14 floor building with his meows

[sharp rose]

you too 😄

[unborn sorrel]

If u want to discuss more dm me

[lapis gulch]

my cat doesnt meow he makes that sound broken shopping carts make with the dodgy wheels

[unborn sorrel]

I have a few interesting ideas

[coarse blaze]

Have not been in a big market for 4 months so I forgot what they sound like, fuckin lockdown

[marble totem]

Anyway, I'm going to get on and hopefully be able to hang with some friends without the API turning into a potato.

[coarse blaze]

btw Zixha,

[marble totem]

Or my CPU fan flying into orbit

[river ibex]

I don't see a place to leave this, so I'll write it here in case some moderatos wants to save it. This is a list of POSITIVE mods that enhance the gaming experience on VRCHat. I will not write their names, only their descriptions.

· Fix the menu so that you can make use of it while falling.
·The menu always appears wherever you look, even if you're looking up.
·A notification to be able to accept or reject when entering a portal.
·Hide the avatars that are X meters away.
·A more immersive HUD; Hide some icons every X seconds and thus avoid having the annoying microphone icon always activated.

·An improved IK system for fullbody that allows the use of more trackers and fixes many problems of the original IK in humanoid models.

·Change the resolution of the photos we take (2K, 4K, 8K).
·Fix the bug that causes the PC to freeze for a few seconds when taking a photo.

·Multiplayer Dynamic Bones.
·Add a button in the "Safety" menu of "Dynamic Bones". In this way we can activate or deactivate the dynamic bones according to the Trust range.

·A shader anti-crash that prevents specific shader programming that breaks the game.

Thanks, I hope this is implemented in the base game and helps in the future of VRChat, its community and its security.

[tardy finch]

[coarse blaze]

[carmine egret]

This either needs to get pinned/posted into #vrc-team-chat / #join-log or its gonna get lost

[vocal shard]

@sharp rose I hope did not upset anyone earlier (I had to vent about it though), but i already got DMs from people that misread the thing, and it personally pisses me off that i have to answer them and still tell them the same thing the ToS states since ever, i just need some headpats

[carmine egret]

[tardy finch]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests is the place to go!

[carmine egret]

🤔

[coarse blaze]

[river ibex]

Sending messages through that platform has rarely worked for me. I have reported some users and recorded for using harmful mods like stealing private avatars and those users are still playing VRChat.
But thanks.

[lapis gulch]

<--- emotes can give away secrets

[fringe glade]

The feature requests canny hurt a bit to be honest when you see stuff from 2017-2018

[sharp rose]

Here's what I think: you felt strongly enough about this situation to make a statement about it. You're frustrated with a long history of confusing and awkward things around this whole topic, and you want to make sure we're actually making good on this whole outreach thing.

You have, literally, nothing to apologize for. ❤️

[vocal shard]

Aww ❤️

[fringe glade]

ok but how wholesome are u

[carmine egret]

[vocal shard]

Are you on on the weekends sache? I would love to meet at some point ingame and chill/drink or whatever

[lapis gulch]

just remember he has god voice too

[sharp rose]

Sometimes but imma hermit ngl lol

always hiding in minesweeper worlds XD

[vocal shard]

Hermit?

[fringe glade]

ok nvm @sharp rose just narrate my life pls

[lapis gulch]

that world is funny with a few friends when you know which ones are bombs :3

[sharp rose]

ironic considering where i work, but im like super antisocial irl

[sharp rose]

it is!

[vocal shard]

I know that feeling

[river ibex]

I would like to invite you to spend 30 minutes on the Fur-Hub map so that you can feel the real VRChat in your flesh. A public one.

[sharp rose]

but ye if i see ya online, ill try and pop in wherever you are, unless its like invite only. coz that'd be awkward af to just like barge into

[hidden veldt]

Listens to the community
hurr durr bad vrchat bad >:[
Can't make this shit up

[coarse blaze]

You have a wife, already more social than me

[vocal shard]

Im usually with a lot of cute people, Which are all super chill, mostly in M.O.O.N's Basement

[sharp rose]

she's also a hermit 🤣

[lapis gulch]

is fine we have cats 😄

[vocal shard]

Listen, mods are cool and all. But VRChat will get shit on for whatever mod creators do with their mods. This is probably one of the main reasons modified clients are not allowed. most mod creators won't give shit about someones privacy and other terms. if there is something malicious like stealing tokens the first thing people will do is go to the VRChat support/team and complain that this happened. Some mods are for quality of life and are great, but things like this are out of VRChat's hands / control and are completely uncontrollable. The only way to have such things is for them to implement these features in the vanilla VRChat client, which won't work as everyone would start making mods for the game (see Minecraft dilemma). If you want something like an "anti-crasher thing", you literally have powerful safety settings in play that can prevent this, you just need to start managing it properly. If you want better FPS, start improving your avatars and world, there are tons of resources for this very thing that will save you hours of time and even some let you do it with one click. If you want more stable servers, that's exactly what VRChat is doing right now. Be. patient.

Can't take this constant hate towards the VRC team anymore. Would you guys feel like improving stuff if you constantly get shit for things other people do? Big fat respect to everyone on the VRC team for putting up with this mess and the large amount of ungrateful people....

[umbral reef]

Why did you lock all these people inside your basement 👀

[coarse blaze]

True actually

[marble totem]

Or just go to a Pug and wait for a 14-year-old wearing a Klan outfit to crash you.

[vocal shard]

Well its a Arcade Basement, with A biiiig video screen and reactive speakers and cool stuffsies i made for our tiny friend group

[hidden veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/jesse-lee-peterson-amazin-sleepy-gif-14474560

[white cairn]

People posting their favourite mod features in general chat. Good luck getting people to stop being guided towards modding the client now. Sigh.

[umbral reef]

Oh then its justified to lock them in

[unborn sorrel]

Bro these 2 are delusional

[sharp rose]

I mean...I don't think people being upset about something they feel strongly about is wrong. Yea maybe the approach is a bit...I guess prickly at times, but if anything, my takeaway is they care a LOT about VRC. We all do. Maybe we just say it in different ways. 😄

[marble totem]

There are far more people who mod than you probably realize. Ask your friends if they do. They usually have good reasons, like safety improvements and QoL.

[river ibex]

"Optimize your avatars" also use E-Girls with 3000 bone collisions. joke

[lapis gulch]

rookie numbers my egirl ukon has 6000 collision checks because the original creator didnt know how to set up bones xD

[vocal shard]

UKON YES

[fringe glade]

sound good to me

[sharp rose]

Today at least, the convos have been pretty chill overall tbh

[coarse blaze]

[river ibex]

Please have someone burn this user's PC. hahaha

[umbral reef]

thefuck

[vocal shard]

Look at the old Twitter feed (VRC Status), it's disgusting. This is no longer "getting upset", it's starting to become targeting and just hating / shitting on stuff

[sharp rose]

by the sound of it, the gpu will burn up on its own i mean what

[vocal shard]

Can i headpat :o ? @lapis gulch i love ukons sooo much ;w;

[white cairn]

The main VRChat general chat on Discord being filled with people going "bro it's fine everyone does it and it fixes shit" is going to be a thing now. It basically green lights everyone who was modding the game to carry on because the devs understand. This is a Pandora's Box that has been ripped open then blasted out on the announcements channel for all to see. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[lapis gulch]

some creators dont realise you can use normal colliders and customize the shape rather than use dynamic bone colliders so they fill the chest cavity with colliders to stop hair clipping

[sharp rose]

Maybe. And outright hostility isn't gonna get much of a response, because...well yea. But I'm not concerned with hate like that, I care what people are trying to tell us, and what we do about it.

[junior bluff]

This is gonna get hella buried, but I just wanted to express my gratitude to the devs for the statement made earlier. I think this approach to handling the mod situation is leaps and bounds better than previous. I appreciate the openness to work with the mod maker community to potentially incorporate the improvements they may bring to the game experience.

[umbral reef]

OhNo! Actual 2017 avatar making tactics when we didnt even have youtube tutorials for anything

[lapis gulch]

i wish that base model was made in 2017 in was released in november 2020

[sharp rose]

The announcement makes it pretty clear we're not saying that. :p

[umbral reef]

Dont make me cry this early in the morning

[vocal shard]

i'm just glad you guys decided to turn off vrc status account replies

[sharp rose]

XD fair

[river ibex]

The large number of "creators" only make Frankenstein avatars; Copies of each other.
A friend showed me an avatar with 5 armatures (10 arms, 5 hips ...)

[vocal shard]

I shot you a friend request btw, @sharp rose feel free to drop by sometimes~

[lapis gulch]

ive seen that and worse i was asked to fix a model for somebody the thing has 17 armatures

[sharp rose]

❤️

[river ibex]

God bless u.

[coarse blaze]

I still don’t understand why this one collider which was the entire body away from the bone managed to collide with the bone despite every other bone being perfectly fine

[lapis gulch]

inside collider and outside colliders do different things i would assume it was inside collider and dragging the bone towards it as it moved

[vocal shard]

SPeaking of, dumbest situation yesterday night, me and friends were sorta baked af, and vrpill dropped by, and we didnt know howto speak anymore, it was great xD

[coarse blaze]

Completely turned my desire for making avatars again off

[fringe glade]

it was surely an inside collider @coarse blaze

[coarse blaze]

A what

[fringe glade]

It pull the dynamic bones in instead of pushing it outside

[lapis gulch]

there are two types of dynamic bone colliders inside wants the bones to be inside the sphere outside push it to the outside

[sharp rose]

i should make an avi that's just a ball

no animations or anything

just...ball

[lapis gulch]

default unity sphere?

[vocal shard]

It needs to roll though

[sharp rose]

yeeesss

nope, cant roll. thatd be animated

has to be... shit-tier

[river ibex]

A cube. The balls have many polygons.

[tardy finch]

I'll one up you.

[lapis gulch]

i have a roll animation i can send you that would just be movement

[vocal shard]

Someone actually did rolling with physics

[tardy finch]

C U B E

[sharp rose]

yea good point

[coarse blaze]

Nono so my character had SUPER long hair and a massive skirt and I put a collider on the skirt for that part of hair, but when I put the hair in the collision check, the hair reacts to it from miles away even though every other bone reacted to it just fine

[vocal shard]

Unless you make the mesh in blender, and you like uh, make it super lowpoly

[umbral reef]

Atleast go original and use default blender monkey