third-person-beta

[wispy glacier]

F5 is also the 3rd person button for the globally known game minecraft, so it makes sense to keep it this way

Is it the actual reload button for making video players locally reload on VRC’s end, or is it just what players have programmed in for the popularly used prefabs like ProTV and such?

[mossy ermine]

yes in ProTV

[eternal flame]

Interesting

Actually well funny enough i was gonna put a 3p view on my avatar this morning now seeing all of this. Im not needed too

[spare steeple]

haiii I'm down here :3
(ok actually why is the 3rd person camera missing my face entirely)

[spare steeple]

also every time I boot up the game it starts in 3rd person mode, zoomed all the way in.
great shot of the back of the top of my head?? I guess?

[spare steeple]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view/p/third-person-camera-looks-way-too-high-its-centered-way-above-my-head

[wicked delta]

That is intentional so that your cursor can still select things in world etc

[spare steeple]

ok but I don't need to select anything and I want to see anything below my forehead. There's no way to rectify this, automatic or manual. even a manual vertical look target offset slider would be great. I just can't use Third Person properly right now because it's not looking in the right place

also, furthermore, my reticle is still covered by my head, and I can't press tab to unlock my recticle and click anywhere onscreen (which you can do normally) because that conflicts with the freelook bind

so I don't even know how this vertical offset would help in world selection

[rose solstice]

@spare steeple

I think there will be an option to adjust this in the future, if this feature stays 👍

[wispy onyx]

If I may interject, I don't like it. It would be better if instead the Camera can be adjusted left-right instead of locking it to the head only.

Example:

[dusky mortar]

Yep, feedback is loud and clear that there's a lot of variety in what kind of offset relative to the player people prefer

[dusky mortar]

Yep this is the idea, we're attempting to run an A/B experiment to determine if the feature is a hit or not. And if it does well, then follow up

[maiden hornet]

Being able to set x/y/z offset, FOV at min/max zoom, maybe even setting whether the camera is attached to the player base, chest or head...

[dusky mortar]

(There's always a lot of pressure against adding new options but) I think vertical and horizontal offset would make sense for hitting most of what people have talking about in feedback

[spare steeple]

maybe even setting whether the camera is attached to the player base, chest or head...
sounds great for supporting non-humanoid avatars! I'm not sure how they would be tracked otherwise

[dusky mortar]

z is kind of done via scrollwheel or the slider we already have

[maiden hornet]

Yeah, I think vertical/horizontal offset are just fine

FOV is nice for presentation

[dusky mortar]

fov is also in the graphics menu, dynamic fov is interesting idea but sounds like maybe use case is narrow for trying to add config options for that

[spare steeple]

vertical/horizontal offset sliders would also introduce great parity with the similarly-named options for the Look At Me function on the Camera

[cold coral]

vert/horizontal offset would bring it close to how a lot of people use the look-at-me mode of the camera

[cold coral]

yeah this

[maiden hornet]

If this was popular enough to expand into something world authors can play with, allowing the camera FOV to be set and set based on the zoom level would be a good part of that

[dusky mortar]

hmm FOV preferences vary wildly too, I don't know how users would feel about that been set externally

[spare steeple]

I love this feature! My wishlist currently is

1. Vertical/Horizontal offset (see: Look At Me mode in Camera)
2. better Developer Experience for World Creators to control the limits of the camera (prehaps a script on the VRCWorld Prefab like movement speed has) and more clear description / control of how Physics Layers affect the Third Person camera
   but overall it's great!

[cold coral]

I've been using 3p a lot since the beta first went out and its been mostly fine aside from the issues mentioned here, but I've been swapping off it a lot recently because it's absolutely cooked my controller inputs

Oh yeah and the zoom snapping to discrete intervals feel like they are too far apart when you get close to your avatar, I feel like that should either be smaller, adjustable, or vary based on distance or something

[rose solstice]

@dusky mortar i got a psvr2, what is oled friendly mode and how do i test this?

[maiden hornet]

The PSVR2 OLED changes, is that seperate from the one you can turn on manually?

[dusky mortar]

ah yeah, other control schemeslike gamepad (and platforms like mobile too) are to be looked at if the experiment goes well

[runic viper]

so, 3rd person implementation for VR people?

[cold coral]

like, in VRChat itself the controller works fine (in everything base-VRC, not related to 3P)
But when trying to use a world that takes pad input (e.g. CVS2 car worlds) it just doesn't recognize anything

[spare steeple]

I am curious though, why is an OLED test being done on the 3p-beta branch?

[dusky mortar]

Oh do we give manual control over that? (This is a bonus test to help a coworker test it)

[dusky mortar]

we've done a networking test awhile ago, and now a PSVR2 test because the long running side car beta gives a chance to do some immediate fully public low risk tests where more users giving it a try is helpful

[minor bridge]

Yeah, the change is just that instead of it being a toggle it's forced on :)

[dusky mortar]

ahhh ok so on OLED headsets they can't turn it off

[cold coral]

b-but what if i want to burn int my screens ):

[rose solstice]

[minor bridge]

Truthfully it's also just a test to see if we can detect PSVR2 at all, given it's not exactly a standard platform

[spare steeple]

is there just too much friction to starting a separate branch? I just find it kinda funny that that branch labeled for 1 feature is getting other tests stapled on haha
-# there's nothing wrong with doing it that way ofc it's just a bit interesting
I've never done this kinda dev stuff so I'm just curious

[cold coral]

changes the microphone icon in the UI
you test it by launching the game on the 3p-beta and seeing if the icon changes

[ancient tulip]

i have a psvr2 but its not set up

🚀

[ancient tulip]

you can use the controllers though. vrchat has no binding for them atm tho

[rose solstice]

i cant tell the difference honestly

[maiden hornet]

Since I had it on before, how would I tell the detection is working...?

I can go and check right now.,

[rose solstice]

im literally looking at it right now

[minor bridge]

The toggle would be grayed out

If it's detected

[cold coral]

I actually cannot find the option now trying to look for it again

unless the toggle disappears on Desktop mode?

[ancient tulip]

seems people r struggling, i just need to untangle its cable and ill have a check

[rose solstice]

bruh

[dusky mortar]

A bit of friction yeah, spinning up a whole new test branch potentially siphons users away from other important beta tests. If it's important we can do it, but for things that might not hit that threshold, plopping them in a sidecar if one is running is a lower friction way. Especially this testing a vr thing for a beta for non-vr users, doesn't affect the other users

[rose solstice]

i'll just shut my shit down since nobody is listening to me

👍

[runic viper]

hm curious, so specific game worlds doesnt let 3rd person view, i assume to make it fair

[cold coral]

literally trying to look for the icon to get a screenshot right now

[dusky mortar]

world* creators have an option to set a tag disabling the feature for any reason

[cold coral]

but ofc it won't show me the option right now

[runic viper]

got it

[dry hill]

PSVR 2 user here, is it only this beta?

[cold coral]

by default the icon is filled in but on OLED mode it's an outline and the icon disappears automatically

[dusky mortar]

the change is only in the 3p-beta branch yeah

[rose solstice]

yeah i was asking about oled mode

[cold coral]

if it shows as an outline (so not what's in my screenshot) then it is detecting correctly

(unless you've manually changed your mic icon to the outline)

[rose solstice]

well i assume i dont have oled mode enabled

where do i enable that?

[cold coral]

it would have automatically enabled on detecting the headset

as mentioned in #open-beta-announcements message

[rose solstice]

oh

Edit:

[ancient tulip]

it wont turn on 🚀🚀

[mortal patrol]

im in the 3p-beta branch with my psvr2 right now and i see no difference with the icon

[rose solstice]

yep

likewise

[maiden hornet]

[Sad news] SteamVR headsets no longer considered "standard" by VRC

[mortal patrol]

ope i found it

"use outline microphone icon"

in experimental

it works

[rose solstice]

so "OLED friendly mode" is "use outline microphone icon"?

[vocal girder]

yeah

[maiden hornet]

There are two options

[rose solstice]

lmao

[rose solstice]

awesome

lets test this

[dusky mortar]

think it should be these, on PSVR2 I think you can't turn them off and they should be defaulted on

[maiden hornet]

Tragically I went to launch VRC and forgot I had something heavy running in the background and inadvertently sent it into a coma

[dusky mortar]

in User Interface settings at bottom of HUD section

[vapid socket]

How do I get access to the beta by any chance

[ancient tulip]

i think my psvr2 hmd has died

lmfao

[mortal patrol]

ono

[rose solstice]

on my psvr2 in the 3p branch i can turn these options on and off as i please

[dusky mortar]

ok great, or not great, but can you share a log of your last session to me?

[rose solstice]

let me turn it off and give you the log

[ancient tulip]

my lobotomised child 💔

no sign of life other than enumeration sound but no enumeration in usb tree

[maiden hornet]

I can also turn them on/off

Pfft...
⁨```2026.02.06 09:56:42 Debug - <b>[SteamVR]</b> Initialized. Connected to oculus(playstation_vr2) : Oculus Quest2 : WMHD315M3010GV :: rift

2026.02.06 09:56:42 Debug - STEAMVR Tracking System: oculus
2026.02.06 09:56:42 Debug - STEAMVR HMD Model: Oculus Quest2```⁩

[ancient tulip]

💀

looking at tracking space might be the only way then

[mortal patrol]

2026.02.05 17:19:09 Debug - [SettingsManager] Use outline mic icon set to: True
2026.02.05 17:20:14 Debug - [EOSManager] [Info][LogEOS] Updating Product SDK Config, Time: 358.946289
2026.02.05 17:20:14 Debug - [EOSManager] [Info][LogEOS] SDK Config Product Update Request Completed - No Change
2026.02.05 17:20:14 Debug - [EOSManager] [Info][LogEOS] ScheduleNextSDKConfigDataUpdate - Time: 359.066132, Update Interval: 307.267670
2026.02.05 17:20:31 Debug - [SettingsManager] Use pixel shifting HUD set to: True
2026.02.05 17:20:34 Debug - [SettingsManager] Use pixel shifting HUD set to: False
2026.02.05 17:20:35 Debug - [SettingsManager] Use pixel shifting HUD set to: True

i can enable and disable them even when on psvr2

[dusky mortar]

just to confirm you're on PSVR2 for this log?

oh yeah I can see some other things in the logs confirming it

yep the thing we were using to check it against is reporting it as "Oculus Quest2" so we'll need another way

Thanks everyone for testing!

[dry hill]

Can we get a small notification to say "OLED MODE ENABLED" for just this beta? I can't tell if it's enabled or not

[maiden hornet]

I wonder if it's reporting as a Quest 2 because it doesn't have bindings

[gleaming dagger]

incase anything psvr2 needs to be tested i can offer myself too. btw pixel shifting hud and outline mic are stilll toggleable for me

[gleaming dagger]

likely, it remaps oculus touch bindings (and poorly too i gotta add)

theres a working community remap out there that im using

the jordan11 remap works like oculus touch controllers pre skeleton tracking

auto-remapped from oculus touch, explains it

[dusky mortar]

Thanks to the logs shared here, and also a direct back and forth with a tester I was able to confirm a fix. The 3p-beta is updated one more time (as of a few minutes ago) so if anyone wants to try again it should be working now

[warm echo]

it seems very sharp and love it

[dense raptor]

the whole game was scaled too small in vr earlier, had to leave the beta to fix it

[dusky mortar]

oops! thanks this is fixed now in 3p-beta

[ancient tulip]

i thought that but assumed it was new lenses i got

[surreal pecan]

works for me

[graceful ravine]

just realised 3rd person breaks an assumption ive been using in my billboard scripts for years

The player head is no longer allways the same as the camera

[burnt crag]

there's a loooot of worlds that do this now lol

[graceful ravine]

makes sense, for years head=camera was a safe assuumption.

[burnt crag]

and for the longest time it was really the only way to do it, since only recently can we get the actual camera's position in Udon now

[graceful ravine]

Wait I can acsess camera transform now?
I can't update old worlds but I can use it for new ones.

[burnt crag]

yep
https://creators.vrchat.com/worlds/udon/vrc-graphics/vrc-camera-settings/

[graceful ravine]

neat

[rare stone]

i miss the outline mic option here on desktop :c

[earnest ravine]

yeah, not sure why that experimental option is only available on VR 😓
or why it is even still "experimental" after all this time 😅

[rare stone]

I had to do something to test if clearing the cache in vrc via command prompt would fix this EAC bug I've been dealing with for a bit after memory crashes. After that cleared my preferences, i noticed two things:

1. The outline mic icon wasn't available to me anymore
2. The fact that it became a hidden setting might've also caused another bug with regards to in game notifications

Because after that clearing i saw the friend join notifications came back

[earnest ravine]

it is not uncommon for people to somehow accidentally turn those notifications off 😅

[rare stone]

The thing is, I've never turned them off. They just stopped working entirely for a few patches now

[earnest ravine]

like i said, every so often people come to #1138891887374237706 with the issue, and they have no idea how or why they were turned off all of a sudden 🤷
for example: https://discord.com/channels/189511567539306508/1403184937473146991

[rare stone]

ty i will keep this in mind

[weak flame]

They removed the outline mic from desktop? Whyyy

[earnest ravine]

it was never available in the settings on Desktop... but if you boot up in VR, enable the setting, and then start up Desktop, it should persist

[rare stone]

you could make the case that it should be available for Desktop mode again, as OLED monitors are becoming a bit more mainstream

[eternal flame]

Should the update apply to 3p beta too?

[minor bridge]

not yet, will probably get here with a delay

[eternal flame]

Okay

^^

[trim shoal]

how do you use the third person when in vr mode?

[burnt crag]

It is not available in VR

[trim shoal]

oooh only desktop

[dusky mortar]

Sorry about the delay, 3p-beta is now updated to the same version as the current open beta

[slow jackal]

Good to know.

[eternal flame]

^^

[cobalt hamlet]

So uhh looks like there's a bug on the open beta where you can't send request/invite messages & images? (I'm on the 3p beta so i just got the update)

I have vrc+

restarted 3x and seems like it still happens

[slow jackal]

I'll try RQ.

I was able to just fine. I was in FOV 90, though.

[frigid mesa]

Any chance we could have the scrolling into third person be ALT instead of default scroll? When I try to scroll with an item in my hand I'm still used to just free scrolling.

[minor bridge]

Careful not to mix up betas, this is a bug, but it's an open-beta one. Since 3p is now based on open it will carry over bugs too - but they should be reported on open-beta, if they are not related to third-person mode. This one already has been reported on the open-beta canny and a fix is coming :)

[cobalt hamlet]

omg im so sorry i thought i posted in the open beta channel 😭

but thats good theres a canny for it already

[nocturne gazelle]

Hi

[burnt peak]

i honestly wish that the direction of the audio followed where i pointed the third person camera instead of the direction being entirely based on which direction the avatar is facing

[earnest ravine]

agreed, good idea, you should totally make a Canny post about it 😮
here: https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view

[light nimbus]

yes.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/852590767876997190/1073887434732998706/emoji.png?ex=6997765c&is=699624dc&hm=c4c7b007f829042fdbccaf63f6478999a8b70c1df1c5f091169df5f8effa4792&

[mortal thunder]

seeing udon 3p scripts confliting with 3pbeta code is funny

[silk mauve]

How do I do third person

[severe zodiac]

F5

[dim sundial]

i am out of loop, what is third person for?

[severe zodiac]

To see the different view behind the character It's just remind me Kingdom hearts something

[dim sundial]

is it just for PC?

[severe zodiac]

Yes

Desktops PC users only

[dusky mortar]

There was actually a bug causing it to not follow the 3p-view camera (it had followed 3p view in earlier versions). Thanks for calling it out 🙏 it should be fixed now in 3p-beta

[burnt peak]

oh sick

goated team

i can confirm its fixed

[dusky mortar]

nice! thanks for testing and confirming 🙏

[burnt peak]

no problem

im glad it is fixed

[spare steeple]

trying to see if the physbones on my shorts are clipping but I can't zoom in below my forehead 💀

-# (side tangent: no they're not! -0.5deg angle constraint fixed it)

[trim shoal]

how do i remove the box telling me what ic an do?

[burnt crag]

you just have to do those actions

[dusky mortar]

for the F5 one, you need to toggle off and back on (so press F5 twice) for Tab it should disappear after pressing it once. Both of these guide boxes will reappear one more time the next time you launch VRC. But the next-next time and after that they'll be gone for good

If somehow you can't press F5, you can go into the main menu graphics options and toggle 3p off and on from there, which will also dismiss the guide box. 1min after successfully dismissing the F5 one, the Tab one will also go away, so for edge cases that's how to get rid of them

[mortal thunder]

Since the thirdperson camera is apparently bound by constraint (?) it has a one frame delay and jitters when being moved at high velocities.

Additonally, when in locked viewpoint mode (Tab), using < and > causes diagonal instead of horizontal movement.

What also breaks is when you try to switch viewpoint modes (Tab) while in a VRChat station, it locks head movement off to the side and no longer tracks head movement, even if you switch (Tab) again.

[cold coral]

not tracking head after pressing tab is normal, head moving to the side isn't though

iirc it's click to unlock

[cold coral]

is there any reason why I am always in 3P when booting VRC/joining a world, or is that a bug?

[cold coral]

It seems to not like when Immobilize is enabled and then tab is pressed

[cold coral]

made a canny
https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view/p/immobilize-tab-causes-camera-to-spin

[willow fjord]

[!] Oh this is urgent. Colorblind settings do not work in third person view

[earnest ravine]

did you make a bug report?
https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view

[willow fjord]

Will do right now

https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view/p/third-person-view-does-not-support-colorblind-world-settings Bug Report Made

[remote gyro]

Is the Avatar Accessories on the 3p beta update?

[burnt crag]

not yet

[quasi belfry]

rip i've been looking forward to playing with the stuff but i've come to depend on third-person view for moderation

[viscid beacon]

I feel like the Third Person Beta should’ve also been included in the Open Beta personally

Considering the Third Person Beta is also technically an open beta

Third Person Beta could just be the regular branch with third person rather than being its own exclusive beta

[burnt crag]

it is often (eventually) mirrors the beta branch

[burnt crag]

so most of the time this is exactly what it is

[viscid beacon]

Oh I didn’t know that tbh

[minor bridge]

It should be updated eventually, but it's separate to allow people to properly opt-in

open-beta remains open so a lot of people coast on there, set and forget

[viscid beacon]

I just meant that the Third Person functionality should’ve also probably been provided in the open-beta branch

[minor bridge]

yeah, and I'm saying it has to be the other way around

because open-beta is only opt-in on the surface, but the functionality of 3p is what we want people to explicitly select :)

[viscid beacon]

I suppose

Sorry I just don’t quite understand fully

[burnt crag]

think of it like, third-person is a special separate feature that they're testing.
At the moment, VRChat likely doesn't want this feature to be automatically available for everyone (it was even A/B tested previously), but at the same time still want this feature to be tested by the public.
So when the 3p-beta is its own separate branch, this means:

1. A player that currently uses the 3P camera feature didn't stumble upon it; they explicitly chose to enable this feature and use it, and
2. any feedback/bug reports/etc. VRChat currently receives will only be coming from players that have chosen to use this feature, rather than again, just stumbling upon it randomly

The reality is the third-person camera isn't fully ready yet to release it fully to live, it's just still being tested

[viscid beacon]

I guess that’s fair

I didn’t think it was unready so that’s my bad

[upper quest]

Is this still in open beta?

or it open out for everyone in the new update?

[wary urchin]

still on its own beta

[willow fjord]

I do still think there should be an option to properly detach the camera direction from the avatar. Instead of having to tap TAB every single time you move forward with W or Control Stick.

[willow fjord]

Though maybe this is my experiences with 3d platformers and mmos.

[jolly folio]

i think it should be like roblox and if ur holding Smth then u have to tab

[warm spruce]

Hello VRChat, I broke my 3rd person button by accident. I was trying to zoom out on my avatar one day, and the game wasn't fully loaded in. It did it, then put me back in first person, and I have not been able to zoom out since. If it helps, I am on PC and also can't use the F5 buttons because it just turns my brightness down. please help when you can.

[remote gyro]

Will the 3p view be updated soon like the open beta?

[ancient tulip]

oh create a post on https://feedback.vrchat.com

under the third person view section

[dusky mortar]

In the Graphics Settings in the main (big) menu there is a toggle for Third Person View which does the same thing that the F5 bind would do, so you should be able to use that to turn it back on without using F5

[burnt peak]

ive noticed that the not all sounds follow the camera in 3rd person free camera and in some worlds sound doesnt follow the camera at all

[shut harbor]

How do you access 3-p beta

[shut harbor]

Nvm

[hearty swan]

here i still am wating for 3rd person beta to be updated :/

[earnest ravine]

yeah, a friend of mine on this beta branch was sad they couldn't skip leg day 😅

[ocean cairn]

Same

I swapped to public so i could use the new stuff

and I keep trying to scroll my camera out 💀

[hearty swan]

same here

[dusky mortar]

Ah sorry about that, 3p-beta has now been brought up to speed with 2026.1.3

[hearty swan]

wooo

imissed my 3rd person havent seen this view in a while

[wanton cloud]

Third person kinda peak had to get a mouse because I can't do 3rd person pov on laptop due to no scroll wheel on it

;3

[wispy glacier]

usually you can still scroll on trackpads or whatever by dragging with two fingers or pinching

[wanton cloud]

I tried that qwq I tried 2 3 and 4 fingers and I tried pinching, though it's probably a problem for me because I'm on Linux

[wispy glacier]

ooo that’s wild, yeah maybe linux has poopier trackpads 🤔

[wanton cloud]

It seems like it, xd I had to make a custom script on startup because on default it disables the trackpad while typing

[cold coral]

pretty sure what operating system you have doesn't change the physical trackpad installed on your PC

more likely the classic Linux Moment where something somewhere just isn't configured properly

[wispy glacier]

how the trackpad input is read definitely sounds entirely dependent on what your OS supports 🤔

[cold coral]

every modern distro has support for hi-res multi-touch trackpads with smooth scrolling built in nowadays

[meager cipher]

sometimes trackpad scrolling is limited to the edges, but i guess no harm in keyboard bindings for the third person camera

maybe (numpad) +/-?

[keen grove]

Anyone else experiencing issues on 3rd person beta when attempting to fly a camera at the same time as having avatar in "freecam" mode?

Steps to reproduce:

1. Ensure player/avatar camera is fully zoomed into first person mode
2. Zoom out into 3rd person mode using scroll wheel
3. Press tab to enter 3rd person freecam mode
4. Take out camera and anchor to world
5. Hold down scroll wheel to attempt to fly camera

• Able to move camera across x and y axis but unable to control Pitch and Yaw
• Pitch and Yaw seem to remain locked to 3rd person freecam

6. Close camera, then without zooming back in to 1st person mode press tab to toggle off 3rd person freecam mode
7. Re-Open camera with same settings as before

• 3rd person freecam gets automagically re-enabled meaning still unable to control Pitch and Yaw

8. Close camera, then zoom completely into 1st person mode
9. Re-Open camera with same settings as before

• Pitch and Yaw controls restored until next time you enter 3rd person freecam

[cold coral]

Noticed this too, and if you're in third person and pull out the camera it also locks the camera lens to your third-person camera, you have to zoom all the way in to first person to fly the camera lens around

[keen grove]

Oh actually, looks like two individuals have opened feedback posts for pretty much this exact issue.

https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view/p/drone-camera-with-third-person-still-rotates-player-view

https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view/p/1770-3p-beta-fly-controls-of-the-camera-break-in-3rd-person

[prisma jungle]

ahh. seems merged into #open-beta-discussion at last?

[dusky mortar]

Yep, I'll post some stuff shortly about 3p-beta

Want to give people coming in from the ping a bit of time to actually see the main Open Beta post

[remote gyro]

But you can use the 3p beta open atm

Pride month is coming in two months, and there was vrc+ goal

I do like the 3rd person view over accessories

though the googly eyes are fun

[restive salmon]

what results were you hoping for? i recommended 3p to many deskies who weren't aware it even existed and they all haven't stopped using it since :)

[remote gyro]

I mentioned it last night to a friend when he said he wish he could see his avi

[dusky mortar]

The experiment was targeted specifically to new users, and we were hoping to see a boost in their retention, unfortunately we didn't see the results we wanted to

[remote gyro]

I was trying to see any issues. But nothing new except the view camera

and mention if someone was using 3p view to other players

[cold coral]

I feel like VRChat's retention issues are completely unrelated to what type of viewpoint you have

It's like the greatest thing to tell people who I'm bringing from games like Final Fantasy or Tower Unite for sure because it makes the transition way easier for them

[willow fjord]

I do hope that the feature becomes free for everyone before Furality.

[dusky mortar]

Yeah, we're hoping/trusting that people who remain on unrestricted 3p-beta instead of going to Open Beta are doing so as creators who need the unrestricted access. But we aren't doing any vetting to stop people (other than shutting the whole thing doing if it becomes a flood into 3p-beta)

[cold coral]

but people naturally discovering the game on like Steam or something don't usually have the luxury of someone showing them around and I don't know if cool convenient camera controls would help with that

[dusky mortar]

So if possible, please move over to the Open Beta branch to give as much headroom as possible to world creators without vrc+ who want to test

[remote gyro]

There was mention of 3p coming to phone at some point

But nothing since the beginning

[restive salmon]

ah okay, thanks for explaining :) i was just curious, because i feel like it's a very sought-after feature among all desktop players (at least the ones i know/run into, and that's a lot)

[remote gyro]

It is very helpful when moderating instances

[dusky mortar]

Yeah! We were seeing a lot of positive direct feedback about people enjoying it too. So it was a bit disappointing that the experiment results weren't so great

[cold coral]

It's also really solid for testing avatars, it's a lot easier than fooling around with the mirror

[dusky mortar]

But because of all the voiced positivity around it we thought it was important to find another "fuel" for the feature rather than just cancelling it or something due to bad experiment results, so vrc+ early access is the new thing for it now

[pliant heron]

hey, i suppose i have a moment to report my only observed issue with the 3rd person view (i haven't used it much)

the Tab key makes it possible to freely rotate, right?
then why, when i press it again, it resets my rotation in the direction i'm facing... and then continues to allow to freely rotate?

imo it should work as a toggle - pressing it again should deactivate the free rotation

or, alternatively, it could just do nothing, since the free rotation is already on, without resetting the present "freely rotated" rotation

[burnt peak]

when in third person the google eyes dont appear on my avatar but in the mirror they still appear

[remote gyro]

I pressed Tabwith A or D to rotate. but then just A or D to rotate, and mouse or trackpad to mouse it closer and further from avi

[burnt peak]

honestly imo your character should look in the direction your walking or have the ability to use it like what we have now

[dusky mortar]

Yeah TAB enables, rather than being a toggle. That's good feedback about it not restarting the centering when "starting" when already started though

the reason it's not a toggle is because you can immeditaly snap back to normal fully aligned control by WASD walking (unless TAB is held while you start walking), and so non-TAB conditions for exiting the state made keeping mental track of what the TAB key would do if it was a toggle a little much

not recentering on a TAB while already active though would make it easier to hold TAB to start walking with freelook active without changing freelook offset though, so help with that cinematic orbit feel

[pliant heron]

speaking of testing avatars (#third-person-beta message)

would there be an option to somehow move the camera up and down vertically so we could view parts of our avatars other than the head at a close-up?

for debugging purposes 👉🏻 👈🏻

[cold coral]

IIRC they just added this

[pliant heron]

ohhh right, "Added options in the Graphics Settings main menu page to set a custom vertical and horizontal offset for 3P"

sorry i'm still in vrc from before the update

it doesn't sound like a very easy to use way to quickly look around your avatar though, which is more what i had in mind, but still appreciated!

[dusky mortar]

Yeah, for full free separated motion, you're probably better off using flying on the photo/stream camera

it's a bit out of scope for a 3p view to have full dynamic free separated point of view

[keen grove]

I started using while DJing as a way to better see the crowd or put my viewfinder in a position where I felt like I was in the crowd while DJing on desktop.

It definitely created a new level of immersion that I wasn't expecting and was not getting before from just having a transparent mirror up in the crowd facing towards me.

It's definitely addicting though, I've tried switching back to open beta branch a few times to check out new features and always ended up feeling like something was missing from the experience. Glad those are unified now for sure! :3

[cold coral]

Every time I swap off 3p-beta I find myself instinctively scrolling down and wondering why nothing is happening
This would happen very often

[pliant heron]

well, i was thinking about current style orbiting while facing the center, just around a point at a different height, not like flying-camera-style full free movement.
the flying camera is what i use now, but it's meh since it uses only like 1/4 of the pixels of my window to display what i'm trying to look at

[dusky mortar]

Ah you can dial those in with the settings in the Graphics Settings, but I see you mean doing that all the time dynamically rather than set and forget

[pliant heron]

yeah, to like scan the avatar up and down looking for issues and return to normal FPP

[burnt crag]

so like some sort of keybind for the camera offsets also, like shift + scroll or ctrl + scroll?

[dusky mortar]

Yeah it could be nice too, another problem we run into is that Desktop mode right now doesn't support custom bindings, and so any new thing we add like that is more room for conflict with existing world binds

We really should support custom bindings... it's on my personal wishlist, but it's a bit of an ordeal because such a system would ideally also not break worlds that directly get keypresses to do stuff

[burnt crag]

it's like one of those Jenga blocks that you know ain't gonna come out easily

[dusky mortar]

But for now yeah, we landed on sliders to at least deliver the over-the-shoulder that people had been asking for

[burnt crag]

the over-the-shoulder is awesome, way cooler than I expected. I might never have a need to even leave 3P camera anymore once this goes live lol

[dusky mortar]

thanks! there are lots of different potential ways to handle how it positions itself with collision and fixed sideways offset. I spent some time trying to dial in something that felt good

[pliant heron]

or MMB + drag up/down, since you're already orbiting with your mouse?

[pliant heron]

yeah, that's neat.
thanks for hearing me out and working on this in the first place, it's a cool feature!
and good luck with overcoming the issues of future updates

[desert valley]

I understand the intent for early access to VRC+. I am a VRC+ subscriber, but we do have about 16 mascot accounts (one for each Mame Friends avatar released) that rotate through our group instances while keeping them open. We can't reasonably subscribe all of these accounts for that purpose. I hope it's okay to keep them on third-person for now given that very specific use-case. Several of them run from just a couple of Steam accounts if that's the data you're getting.

It's very convenient to be able to see their pose while using the radial in desktop to pose, since I have to back out several menus again to get back to the mirror or camera.

[dusky mortar]

Rather than me saying specifically okay to individual situations, it's more feasible to say that we're trusting/hoping for users to do what they reasonably can, understanding both the purpose of the 3p-beta staying up and also the vrc+ early access

[desert valley]

I understand that.

[dusky mortar]

Thanks! And I understand your situation too. I'd say do what you think is most reasonable.

(And I'm just hoping that 3p-beta usage doesn't explode, especially when Open Beta goes Live, because I'd really hate to have to shut down 3p-beta, so anything people can do to reduce that chance is very appreciated)

[burnt peak]

the recent update to the 3p-beta broke my ability to use to use the obs virtualcam for selfie expression as it gives me this popup whenever i try to use it

and i need to use obs virtualcam as its the only way i can use my kinect as a webcam since no other applications have the ability to do so plus i dont even own any webcams

[wispy onyx]

You have my upmost thanks. I wanted that so much.

[arctic chasm]

I remember posting this when third-person mode was first announced, it didn't end up sparking much conversation on the announcement post at the time, but I'm hoping I might be able to get someone to explain it to me here, given this channel is presumably populated with people interested in the 3p beta:

I’m a bit unsure how to feel about third-person camera support. I have noticed that some desktop users already struggle with properly understanding personal space when it comes to interacting with VR users, and while a third-person view would definitely allow them to understand the space they occupy better, I feel like it would end up lessening the immersion of speaking “face to face” with someone. Happy to be proven wrong by more experienced desktop users than me, but it feels like this drives a further wedge between the experiences of VR and desktop users.

Aside from this, how is the camera handled with walls and other solid objects? Will a third-person view player be able to look through walls by zooming out and orienting their camera on the other side of it?

I don't run around in desktop often, so again I'm happy for someone more experienced to explain, but I don't really understand the purpose of it I suppose? From my perspective as a player it seems like it would cause more problems (breaking UIs/HUDs and allowing players to see into areas they were never meant to, as well as the non-face-to-face alienation I mentioned above) than benefits.

[wispy glacier]

I agree with this, equally confused why this is being added, but as a world creator I plan to just block it in whatever worlds I think shouldn’t have it

[arctic chasm]

Is it confirmed that world creators will be able to disable it?
Will the feature be opt-in or opt-out by default?

[burnt crag]

opt-out

speaking from experience, the third-person camera does not detract from the social experience like you're describing

[arctic chasm]

I will have to trust your experience on that. I suppose as a primarily VR-based user, it is very difficult for me to imagine a third-person perspective as a natural way to have a conversation with others

[arctic chasm]

I realize now I have confused myself with my own terminology.
Opt-out by default, as in, it is enabled by default and creators will have to go and disable the feature themselves?
That is definitely what I'm seeing currently on my uploaded world settings

[wispy glacier]

they usually start new settings enabled on worlds like that

[burnt crag]

if they didn't, the feature would be DOA

[dusky mortar]

For collision, the 3P camera collides with the Default and Environment layers, so in most cases it stays where it should and avoids allowing peeking through walls.

[arctic chasm]

I assumed it would work in a smart way like that, but figured it would be worth checking. Thank you

[dusky mortar]

And about why we decided to add the feature, it's similar to games that don't offer a field of view slider etc. For some people that's not an issue, for others, it's a comfort thing that is a complete show stopper preventing them from giving the game a try

In a similar way, the idea is that there are a lot of flatscreen players that come from things like MMOs etc where 3P is just the way they've grown comfortable interacting with flatscreen experiences, so not having that available in VRC might be cutting off those users from even giving VRC a chance

It's expected to be a very individual (and even situational) preference thing, which is why we made it easy to toggle and scroll in and out from

[arctic chasm]

I hadn't considered that perspective. Thank you for your explanation!
I am all for features that help people feel more comfortable starting out in VRC - and after all, it won't affect me that much anyway, being primarily a VR player as I mentioned

I think F5 is a good keybind for it too, the first thing I think of is Minecraft where you use that key for toggling in and out of third-person

[dusky mortar]

It's good to call out that it could affect social dynamics for everyone around if desktop users become even less embodied in their avatars. We talked about that internally too, but after testing it out here on 3p-beta for a long time and observing, we decided to keep the feature

[arctic chasm]

Glad to know so many angles are being considered internally before committing dev & communication time to features like this! Helps me feel confident that things are being thought out before they're added

[remote gyro]

Depending on the world, the view camera is behind my head when I spawn in worlds that are close to a wall, but as I move forward, the camera is behind me at a space where I can see my avatar.

[wispy glacier]

that sounds like it could be patched by VRC

[wispy glacier]

I wonder how 3rd person responds to being teleported to a space with your back against a wall? same behavior?

[remote gyro]

Avi will be out of view

[willow fjord]

I'm going to be honest here, VRChat wasn't the first social world that I've been a part of. That goes to "SL" (If you know, you know).

Being able to see myself in Vrchat never really hampered the social aspect or 'ruined the face to face' communication for me.

Since I've signed up for this particular beta at the beginning, I feel like I've been at least 66% of the time in third person

[wispy glacier]

gatekeeping the name of Second Life is insane lol

[willow fjord]

(I mean there's a reason why it's banned on Twitch. Not discussing that here.)

[lapis halo]

I'm excited to see 3p ship to Live.

[burnt crag]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1830-accessories-attached-to-the-head-bone-are-not-visible-in-third-person

[craggy hinge]

wrong channel

I don't know if you noticed that earlier

But thought I would let you know

[burnt crag]

this is the channel for the third person beta? and this is a bug that happens in third person?

[craggy hinge]

Accessories aren't in the third person beta

[burnt crag]

yeah they are...

[craggy hinge]

what!

since when?

[burnt crag]

how do you think I encountered this bug

[craggy hinge]

No

I'm talking about 3p-beta

Not open-beta

This is the wrong channel, because the 3p-beta` does not have accessories as far as I'm aware??

[burnt crag]

got some news for ya buddy

the branches were merged at some point previously

pretty sure open-beta and 3p-beta are the same, with the only difference being you need VRC+ to use third person in open-beta

[craggy hinge]

Interesting, that's on me ... I swear I've been reading the patch notes, I did not hear about them doing this in #open-beta-announcements

[burnt crag]

I don't think it was properly announced, it's kind of implied in Kung's announcement, but yeah open-beta and 3p-beta are both build 1830

[earnest ravine]

my biggest issue with third-person-mode is still how it changes what TAB does... i have muscle memory saying that when i need to press a button on a UI, i just hold TAB and press it with the mouse 😖
not being able to do that will likely be one of the reasons i won't be using the third-person-mode as much... 😟
i understand the issues though, it could cause weird issues if you can mess with UI elements behind you and so on 🤔

[rose crane]

ok but, what's the deal with paywalling a third person cam?

(also the fact that there exists worlds with a third person cam anyways so like, lmao even)

[craggy hinge]

It's a temporary paywall, they made it clear that this is an Early Access feature for VRC+ subscribers

[rose crane]

tho what are the odds that it stays paywalled tho?

[craggy hinge]

that'd be kind of nuts, considering they literally just announced it'd be available to everybody in June (or earlier)

[pure zodiac]

wait no way we have third-person view in VRChat before gta 6

sick!

[verbal kettle]

i don't really care if it's locked behind a paywall, even if it's temporary, i dont really use it, and one of the game worlds i actively play in, SlashCo VR, disables it anyways

i couldn't use it on desktop even if i wanted to

[willow fjord]

I mean that's fine and dandy if you don't, but I've uh, largely started using 3P as a default in desktop mode.

(I just wish i could keep the character and camera disjointed from each other sometimes, like a platformer)

[willow fjord]

With the recent announcement, I'll go ahead and sign off the beta. I hope to use it proper in the future.

[burnt peak]

i wish i still had the ability to center my camera while still having free rotate enabled by just hitting tab

[dreamy hemlock]

how do you use it? idk where it is on the menuuuu

[ashen wyvern]

The best third person I've ever seen had the camera linked to the body and no y movement

[runic viper]

So wait, once 3p goes out of beta, what will happen with it? Or it will remain?

[burnt crag]

this announcement has details for how 3P will work on release:
#open-beta-announcements message

[runic viper]

So i will be temporarily debuffed again

So what if im not a world creator. Moving over and being debuffed for months?

And no. I cant afford for vrc+ due my region currency being useless to online stuff

[tawny dove]

Unless you regift from another patron(s) in publics

[swift owl]

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out, but:

When using 3rd person you can use the < and > keys on the keyboard (less than and greater than keys) to rotate left and right,

However, if you press **Tab ** to unlock the avatar rotation from the camera rotation, the < and > keys no longer rotate horizontally, they rotate diagonally until the camera is all the way above your avatar or all the way below your avatar.

All camera rotation in this video was done using < and >

[cold coral]

oh wait a minute yeah why is this still in?

this was a bug since beta

the same thing happens with Controller and OSC (which makes sense, it all gets translated to the same input)

[burnt crag]

was there a canny made for this?

[cold coral]

I think so

[earnest ravine]

nice video, definitely put it in a bug report 👍
here: https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view

[meager cipher]

it was already reported https://feedback.vrchat.com/third-person-view/p/keys-dont-work-as-intended-while-in-free-rotate-mode

[stiff badge]

I can't find it but was there already a canny for TPV while in stations that are moved in FixedUpdate?

[vestal quartz]

Im stuck in 3rd person LOL how do i get myself outta this

uh

that was werid LOL

You can zoom out all the way with 3rd person, and cheat

cool update tho!

[earnest ravine]

press F5

[grand granite]

I love 3rd person but I hate the center axis is based on my head

When I zoom in a little my head is more focused at

I want the center to be the middle of my body

Or a keybind to move the center point outside of Tab free turn

[dusky mortar]

In the Graphics Settings page in the Main Menu, check out the "horizontal" and "vertical" sliders under the 3P toggle