android-discussion

[ancient birch]

I agree

[boreal moss]

I mean yeah, I am just here to give my own perspective, not to argue when ever my method is truly the "correct" one.

👍

[ancient birch]

It sounded otherwise

[boreal moss]

Well, let's say that english is not my native language.

i just know it well enough to get my point across.

[ancient birch]

Fair enough

I can end with that understanding

[boreal moss]

yes, have a good day.

[ancient birch]

[muted kayak]

That's not how things works sadly.

[ancient birch]

Also agreeable. But again, I guess they don't understand English as well enough. I guess just enough

[muted kayak]

I'm french so english isn't my native language too so....

[ancient birch]

Also fair

[lilac delta]

i keep seeing this a lot in this channel. so let me explain again. yes some can do blender and make a very poor quest avatar poor or even medium and yes we humans can learn it with time and care. but the thing is, and try understanding it. not everyone has the will to use energy or time doing something they don't really care about. most just wanted a custom avatar so we learned the most basic stuff ever or just bought a pre build model. It's not just the skill that makes us human but the WILL. you have the will and skill. but not everyone has the will to learn new stuff. Time or be honest just being dumb and that's okay. Not everyone can do everything.

[echo lynx]

This

[balmy pilot]

If you're not going to bother making an optimized avatar then you don't have to, just don't spend all day in here complaining that Android doesn't support it.

And if you do want to do it and need help, #avatar-optimization is the place to be

[pearl mulch]

The imposter system will take care of having something to show for the Android users if you can't meet the technical requirements to not be very poor

[thorny star]

Imposter system does not exist in any meaningful capacity

Who knows how many years it will take, if it ever comes

[grand zenith]

It's fine if people don't want to learn, that's why you can spend money to get someone on vrc traders to make it for you.

Trade time learning how to do it yourself, for time at your job to get someone else to do it for you.

[thorny star]

I do sympathize with people making/uploading avatars. This shit is hard. It takes a lot of effort to just get your goofy little guy to show up on the screen and track your movements somewhat believably

[grand zenith]

Imo, more pressure should be put on the avatar base maker. The "Quest compatible" avatar base, that is just a shader swapped PC avi needs to go away lol.

[thorny star]

YES

Absolutely garbage

[cosmic cobalt]

Then there are people like me who knowingly buy a 91k tri base to port it to Quest

And spend my entire evening dissolving and decimating it down to 19k

[pearl mulch]

yes but knowing vrc is working on it is helpful for understanding the decision-making that they have on potentially removing very poor altogether

[pearl mulch]

that sounds kind of heavy even for PC

[cosmic cobalt]

Yep it would’ve been very poor on PC

But I made it effectively 20% of its original polygon count

Then I just smoothed out and did custom normals to mask the low poly count

[turbid bolt]

Hi

[cosmic cobalt]

I’ll test the avatar on Android later when I’m done with it

[hybrid tendon]

Hi

[half tapir]

That's what i actually did and why my avatars are poor rank on Quest

[cosmic cobalt]

I’ve commissioned help to decimate models a couple times myself

Hell I did it yesterday with one that was just giving me too much trouble lol

[earnest pulsar]

Slyfest on android was one of the experiences of all time.

[half tapir]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/430498721105575959.webp?size=48&name=4fnkaboom&quality=lossless

[fringe bone]

Is it me or does the game's audio not work?

Like it keeps cutting out and not returning for like hours?

[earnest pulsar]

Worked pretty good for me in slyfest. I only have problems while it's lagging.

[muted kayak]

This shit is hard.
Try to say that to @boreal moss haha.

[thorny star]

The dunning-krueger effect works both ways. People with a lot of experience doing this kind of thing assume that a lot of it is common knowledge when it just isn't.

[mighty zinc]

Help me ...
https://we.tl/t-3BXHR11Wij

[grand zenith]

That is the most sus link

Just post the video file like a normal person lol

[pearl mulch]

I ended up watching the video it was just their phone freezing loading VR chat

[wheat crest]

assuming i buy a month of VRC+ to test the beta, once that runs out, will things like push notifications stop working?

really i think it'd be a good idea to have push notifications available for all users, with only gameplay available for VRC+

[ancient birch]

Wdym push notifications?

[wheat crest]

i heard that the android beta has push notifications

i assumed they were for like, invites and such

[ancient birch]

For real absolutely annoying thinking that everything is easy

[wheat crest]

which would be useful

like, lets say i invite someone, they have their phone, they'd get an invite and know someone wants them to join

kinda like dming them on discord to say "wanna play vrchat" or something lol

[muted kayak]

I don't think on VRChat you can invite a friend if he's offline.

[wheat crest]

right, but adding that functionality to the app in the future would be good

[ancient birch]

If you're implying they shouldn't have vrc+ to get that notification that wouldn't be a good thing. Cause then they'd join the game just to find out they can't play cause they don't have vrc+

[wheat crest]

like, as long as they have the app

they can be invited

[wheat crest]

don't make it a joinable notification if they don't have VRC+

[muted kayak]

Until VRChat add that, the Android version will be officially released soo..'

[ancient birch]

There are people that downloaded the game that doesn't have vrc+

[wheat crest]

just make it like "user wants you to play vrchat!"

and then you can hop on your pc or vr or whatever

[ancient birch]

They download it in case they do get it or when it goes public

[wheat crest]

right

but i see no reason why letting them receive notifications is an issue

[ancient birch]

I like the idea you're tryna pitch. I'm just saying some people have the app even without vrc+

[wheat crest]

even if they do click on them, have it say "you need VRC+ to join, but you can still play on other platforms"

[muted kayak]

@wheat crest Canny time then

[wheat crest]

?

[muted kayak]

https://feedback.vrchat.com

[wheat crest]

FWIW i'm pretty sure you can invite people that are in the browser

and they'll get a browser notification

[ancient birch]

Yeah they do

[wheat crest]

that kind of functionality

[muted kayak]

Like I said, until VRChat add that, VRChat will be officially released

And so won't require VRC+

[ancient birch]

Ye

[wheat crest]

i would but my vrchat login outright refuses to let me use the website

i can login to ANY client except the website with the exact same user and password

[muted kayak]

That's not normal

[wheat crest]

quest, desktop, etc

[broken pine]

Right, the app does support push notifications and they'll only be VRC+ while the app itself is limited to VRC+

[wheat crest]

if i try the site it'll just say "invalid username or password" and i've reset my password a few times

[broken pine]

Try using your email address instead of your username

[wheat crest]

i think it might be my browser specifically tho, because on my mobile site it works too

[wheat crest]

ah, thats a good point

[broken pine]

When in doubt, you can also clear cookies or try in Incognito if you have Chrome

[wheat crest]

i remember after you change your vrc username (which i did) your original one stays as the login name, at least for the SDK

which kinda sucks for me because i changed my vrchat username with the intent of getting AWAY from my old username, due to harassment that got as bad as swatting

on other platforms, but the same username

and iirc your original username is still on your profile

and AFAIK vrc support can't change it

@broken pine any idea on that?

i don't really wanna just make a new vrc, all my uploaded avatars are on this one

moving them is gonna be a pain

[broken pine]

I'd recommend contacting support about it

They can look into it for you

[wheat crest]

iirc somewhere in the FAQ it says they can't change it, but maybe they'd make an exception

just figured i'd ask since you've got the yellow name and are here anyway

i'll ask em just in case

[fervent elk]

That's why contacting support is important, to see if they can make an exception

[hybrid tendon]

punching the air since my phone is not compatible >:[

for vrc

[wheat crest]

aright, in most cases companies do not care at all and will not change the rules set in there

it could be different for VRC, steam wouldn't do it

[fervent elk]

I like to think we're at least slightly more caring than like...a brick? idk smth dense XD

[wheat crest]

difference is i've got a TON of games on steam

so i kinda just CAN'T lose that account

[fervent elk]

Definitely get it, especially with VRC our accounts kinda ARE us, in a lot of ways. It hits different having something like this happen. But I'm pretty sure support can lend a hand 😄

[fervent elk]

too real

[wheat crest]

yeah but it's one thing to upload some files in the SDK and another thing to lose hundreds of dollars of purchases

[broken pine]

forgive me for the cringe watermark

[fervent elk]

I get it, it's why we're trying to point you at support too

They handle odd things all the time

[wheat crest]

yep, i'm gonna go make a ticket after i reset my password again

lol

[hybrid tendon]

im gonna bawl my eyes out if my phone is still not compatible

[wheat crest]

huh, i was wrong apparently

[hybrid tendon]

oh

[wheat crest]

according to the vrchat FAQ, those original usernames aren't visible to others

it would still be convenient to have it changed since i'd like to disassociate from the other name as much as possible

[broken pine]

Which phone?

[hybrid tendon]

Redmi 11

[broken pine]

Seems pretty capable, I'm guessing it's the version with 4GB of RAM

[hybrid tendon]

probably (srry im dumb with phones 😭)

[broken pine]

Whoa, I haven't seen that 4+2 before

Oh, if that's from a website they're probably showing that you can upgrade to the 6GB version

[hybrid tendon]

okay, i have to update my phone anyways soo

[broken pine]

Right now the app requires any phone with more than 4GB RAM, so you're just under

VRChat at the moment really needs enough RAM to run well

[hybrid tendon]

aight

[broken pine]

Hopefully we can work to improve it and bring down those specs, but we don't want to enable it on phones where we know it won't be a good experience

[muted kayak]

That screenshot is taken from the phone's settings (MIUI settings to be exact).
The 4GB is the actual physical RAM of the phone, and the additionnal 2GB of RAM is actually Virtual RAM.

[proud creek]

hmm I wonder whats new 🤔

[ancient birch]

LMAO I see that sometimes

[dim chasm]

any other quest users getting out of memory crashes?

[thorny star]

all the time

[dim chasm]

several friends are getting it rn repeatedly

[thorny star]

yep

[dim chasm]

is there a fix?

or anything that will fix?

[half tapir]

actually you technically can

at least as long they have the "active" status

thats when theyre connected to the API

[viral willow]

In the Dev post it just said you can't use very poor performance avis, but even when I try to use good performance avis that was meant for quest I just get put back to the default avatar of a frog

Tried relogging, didn't work

Tried a different avatar, didn't work either

[native igloo]

did u upload quest avi?

[viral willow]

Even if I use the fallback models

It turns me into that stupid frog, only way I can change model without it bugging is the Homeworld mirror

Which, the selection is not great

[viral willow]

No but I have a ton of quest avis on my acc cause I was preparing for vrchat mobile

Didn't expect the avatars function to be this janky though

[native igloo]

I dont get it.....if it not cross platform avatar, it is normal.

[viral willow]

Idk it's not working for me I guess

I've restarted the app a few times now

The avatar tab is just completed unusable

Even world's avatars

One which I know performance quality is green

[native igloo]

try reinstll app.

[viral willow]

Feels kinda bad not being able to crouch and stuff already

But not being able to use my avatars after paying 10 dollars for extra avatar space seems kinda just...bluegh

[viral willow]

Aight

[viral willow]

Nope now I'm just turning into a anime cat girl

[native igloo]

upload avi to both platform and change into that model.

I think uploaded model maybe something wrong.

[ancient birch]

You can crouch

I won't advertise but I did make a YT video seeing how to use the app All you do is click and hold the little jumping guy symbol

Tap and hold*

[viral willow]

Yeah yeah accidentally figured it out trying to double jump in rainy rooftop

Just still haven't managed to figure it out how to work any avis rn

Cause none works, even public avatars world's ones

[ancient birch]

Do any of them SAY Very Poor when you tap "View Details"?

Cause very poor is very common. Especially in public avis

I could probably count on my hands how many I have that are Poor or good enough for my phone compared to my 100+ avis that are favorites

Just tap "View Details" and see what it says under the name

Just in case you don't understand ><

I am not trying to say you lack knowledge at all btw, I wasn't sure how you were checking if they are good are not. I just thought I'd show you this just in case my description was confusing. In case it would also help

[viral willow]

Nope either orange or green

Also I know where it is

It doesn't even change with fall back avis

It'll just turn me Into a random fall back avi

I can't use my avatar tab

[ancient birch]

Then yeah you'd probably have to just go to support/email vrchat or something.

[ancient birch]

I never said you didn't

I just showed it just in case

[viral willow]

Would you mind joining a world with me and letting me try to clone your avi

To know if it's a me problem or a vr problem

[ancient birch]

I mean I can try very busy at work so I won't talk but sure

Wait on phone or vr?

[viral willow]

No needs to talk

[ancient birch]

Cause I can only do phone rn

[viral willow]

Oh phone, I don't have a PC yet saving up for one, bills and food kinda take up 90% of my ok income each month so

[viral willow]

Add me it's just MochiMercy

[ancient birch]

Fair enough. User is SquidInk365

Ps. Don't judge me I have the vrc home as my home

To help my phone ><

[viral willow]

I had a different world as my home

But it only loads the vrchat home world so

[viral willow]

Added ya

[ancient birch]

Try joining me

It shows you as offline I can't invite you

my phone slowly getting a bit warm lol

[trim panther]

A lot of the quest compatible avis that I have all used to work on Android, now whenever I try to use them it defaults to my fallback avi. Has anyone else noticed this?

[ancient birch]

Not agaim

facepalm Vrc chat mods can we make a filter that whenever someone says fallback or "can't see" thr bot tells them what's wrong?

Not we but like you guys. Cause vrc hasn't made an announcement amd nobody is keeping aware of this. Getting thr question is tedious

[ancient birch]

Can't see very poor avis.

Android won't allow anymore

[trim panther]

The avis I'm using are medium or green

[muted kayak]

You should use the fast home world then

[ancient birch]

Then that is interesting

[ancient birch]

??? Whats that

[muted kayak]

https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_a7a3e90e-ba93-4bb3-88fa-25747dcea477

There is also this one

https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_1a8b8684-3b19-4770-a4a7-288762f57b29

[ancient birch]

Oh right! Thanks I'll go there

[ancient birch]

Now I understand

Even medium avatars aren't seen

Tomorrow I'm gonna Do a test just to see but

Hmm

Maybe vrchat is trying to mess with their ranking system on how they do good medium excellent and such

Just a thought

Fnaf Spoopy Springtrap (Not too spooky but just in case) he is a medium avatar and he workss

[torn lodge]

Is android port only the game or yall are going to try to make android users publish avatars?

[dusky valley]

When is the vrc mobile app gonna be available for Android 11?

[native igloo]

already as it should

[ancient birch]

Huh? What are you asking here?

[torn lodge]

i mean a vrc sdk android port (maybe impossible bc unity is only pc)

[barren field]

yeah, there's no way you can make avis on mobile atm

[ancient birch]

Yeah what ashy said. Unfortunately there's no way. Not to mention, there's ONLY Quest and PC port. Well the options of Android and PC basically. So you'd have to have a PC to upload PC/Quest comp avatars. Mobile phones could hardly handle VRC there'd be no way in hell it could take Unity Jesus

[slender panther]

Will vrc be on ios

[rose jasper]

I'm concerned about the platform bundle

since for now we have android (includes quest) and pc

and for ios it will be required another platform bundle compilation

[rapid wing]

I believe I heard somewhere that there's some kind of workaround for translating Android builds into iOS but don't quote me on that. Cuz yeah doing three uploads would be pretty inconvenient

[supple vine]

my garbage android phone exploding after loading that one e-girls avatar

[pearl mulch]

that surprises me given that there's no very poor avatars on Android

[rapid wing]

I've had better performance on my phone than Quest

[pearl mulch]

I'm not surprised given that it's only having to render everything once and 30fps is okay on phone

[lilac delta]

the sooner the better but for now unknown

[half tapir]

my phone simply overheats running the game

but not anymore since my vrc+ did run out

[covert onyx]

why remove the option to see very poor avatars on mobile, its not like they are shown by default, so if you care about performance you can just hide the avatar or just choose not to see them at all, like theres already an option in the menu to hide all very poor avis, so why remove the option entirely, or just even have the option at all?

[pearl mulch]

the upcoming imposter system I'm guessing it plays a part in that and I'm guessing they're coming to regret allowing very poor avatars at all on the quest

[covert onyx]

I mean I guess, but its not like its a problem unless you make it a problem for yourself

and at that point, if you really want to see the avi with a minimal performance hit, just change safety settings and only show one or two very poor avis at a time, pretty simple workaround

[rose leaf]

Very Poor avatars are a big problem on quest, especially on mobile. the lack of hard restrictions has led people to upload avatars that are so horribly optimized that they are heavier than entire worlds.

there's likely google playstore and IOS app store restrictions about app performance and battery consumption

[naive bluff]

You see how many Questies are complaining about crashing all the time?

It's because of Very Poor avatars.

[pearl mulch]

especially the ram contents of the very poor avatars

[naive bluff]

^

Give people an inch, they'll take a country mile.

[pearl mulch]

and from what I've heard Quest users get taught by folks to just turn on all the very poor avatars resulting in those performance problems

[naive bluff]

"I wanna see the cool avatars!"

[covert onyx]

I mean I guess, but thats why you usually run higher safety settings in general in publics or lobbies with generally higher populations, its what I do even on pc, and its also a downside of user generated content. But thats also the price we pay for having said user generated content, some people don't know how to optimize avis, which sucks, yes (and I know there are those that aboslutely abuse that like crazy), but still, there are systems in place to prevent that, and thats how its been on pc for ages. Also yeah, but thats less of a vrc problem, thats a people misunderstanding how the game and its systems work problem imo.

[naive bluff]

People are dumb.

They either won't understand how to hide avatars... or ignore that advice for the sake of seeing all the "cool avatars" people have.

[vale edge]

Saying it's entirely because of VP avatars is pretty silly... There's so much that goes into headroom. Hell the UI 2.0 update alone was a notable hit to performance for quest for instance. Feature creep n shit. Saying it's only avatars, especially when performance regression has happened regardless of avatars...

[covert onyx]

that sounds like a them problem in that case

[pearl mulch]

the avatars are one aspect that's completely outside of VRchats control

[vale edge]

Hell, it's noticeable how much more frequently crashing happens on quest now regardless of the avatars being shown not changing or even being better perf.

[covert onyx]

like personally, Idk how I could ever make on of my halo infinite ports even meet the poor requirements, the polycount is extremely high and I would essentially have to learn how to do manual normal baking just to even get it close with how much decimation would be needed for the mesh. and then with the texture quality, essentially when I'm done I would be left with a ps2 model at my current skill level

[pearl mulch]

now I guess the question is is that something that vrc do with their code or meta there's not much vrchat can do if the meta OS takes up more RAM

[covert onyx]

my opinion is just slap a disclaimer on the store page or whatever they have to do, and just leave it be and make the poor or better avi setting default

[vale edge]

Entirely ignoring the reduced headroom because of UI 2.0, and increased crashing since that update on quest when making claims of performance is imo disingenuous. There certainly are areas that VRC can improve, saying it's entirely VP avatars is a copout and disingenuous imo.

[pearl mulch]

a disclaimer might not be good enough for the Google Play store or the Apple Store

[covert onyx]

I mean I guess, I wonder how roblox would get around something like that

or other games that use user generated content

like there has to be some sort of exception for that

[pearl mulch]

give me the triangle count allowance it would probably end up more like a Xbox 360 model?

[naive bluff]

Isn't Roblox using premade models?

Just swapping textures and whatnot.

[pearl mulch]

they recently added arbitrary Avatar uploading but I would have to check the documentation as far as maximum resource usage

[naive bluff]

Interesting.

Guess they want that VRChat popularity.

[pearl mulch]

https://create.roblox.com/docs/art/avatar/specifications

and it sounds like it hard caps the Roblox avatars

[half tapir]

everyone just ignoring merc lol

[pearl mulch]

well there's not really anything any of us can do about performance regressions outside of our uploaded content

[ancient birch]

Iknow I am behind but I actually counted how many avatars I have useable on android. Out of my 100 something I have about 24-26

Medium-Poor

And 1 excellent xD

[vale edge]

So while VRC can introduce more and more feature creep that reduces the headroom and performance, people will just proclaim there's nothing we can do so better remove thousands of avatars to justify said feature creep while ignoring user choice and safety tools that already exist.

Outright removing access to content that has historically been allowed, should never be the choice in a game based on user generated content. Removing the ability to upload VP, sure, adding first party optimization tools, sure. Disabled, warnings, whatever. But outright disabling access to user content while proclaiming there's nothing we can do and eluding to the only reason why users lag on quest is because of avatars, especially when everyone interacts with the game different, is just dumb.

I mean what next? Are they going to assign ranks to worlds and then block me from visiting a world I've gone to for years because of some nebulous performance metric that varies from user to user? While it may seem baseless, it's a continuation of the same form of thought that leads to removing access of avatars based on a performance metric that affects everyone differently? Does Brand really know what's best for me and how I play to such an extent as to justify barring my access to content?

[pearl mulch]

I would point out that meta feature creep would have effects on RAM consumption

[vale edge]

feature creep affects many things because it's a broad term describing many things...

[pearl mulch]

mostly I'm just pointing that out because vrc can't do about them getting less ram
to work with because the meta OS is using more of it

[vale edge]

I'm fully aware. But doesn't negate things fully within VRCs grasp nor anything I said, nor new hardware, nor the deprecation of old hardware, nor android devices with substantially more memory.

[hybrid tendon]

I will miss having cute Booth models used for Quest/Android platform...

[pearl mulch]

it is possible to optimize those to not be very poor

[hybrid tendon]

Well, with models that have possibilities to reduce poly counts without affecting too much on how they look like, I would be fine doing so, but when it's a model that is a lot further away from 20k poly counts, optimization at that point may give less desired results. Talking about repotology, remapping UV textures, etc.

[pearl mulch]

might be worth it to do it too at least one model so you have a fallback model

[hybrid tendon]

Nah, I am talking about getting those models to be on Poor at least.

[muted kayak]

It's not entirely VRChat's fault about crashes.

[rigid galleon]

who asked for this

[ancient birch]

Asked for what?

[rigid galleon]

who asked for vrchat on phone

[light smelt]

the canny

[barren field]

the vrchatters

[rigid galleon]

btw how do u get trusted user? i got it but idk why

wait thats offtopic

[barren field]

Just generally playing the game and making friends with ppl

[pearl mulch]

it's a good idea for vrchat to increase its potential audience to have more potential pain customers to pay for VR chats expenditures

[half tapir]

"pain costumers" lmao

[ancient birch]

As much as I understand this it feel more like they want us adults on the platform to suffer more.

As increasing the "potential audience" also means more children from the phone

[grizzled coral]

The upside for us making stuff is that we can test our mobile content, or well, at least us that optimize can.

Going to be real valuable for world creators.

[naive bluff]

Soon™.

[cosmic cobalt]

In what way?

Adding mobile players != kids exclusively

It could just be casual players, or get more of your irl friends into the game

Also YOU have the power to not go to public instances if you only wanna be with adult friends

If there are kids around me, I simply just block them

But I’ve met a ton of chill casual players who are Questies and can’t afford better hardware

Same will definitely apply to mobile VRC

[muted kayak]

I never understand that part.
People complain about kids, but at the same time, they have the power to mute/block them, or go in private instances/group instances.

Look at my block counter

And yet I still find a lot of people on it, mostly teen/adults.

And yet I'm not even in the english community

[half tapir]

I mean blocking almost all the lobby constantly also not being pretty nice

Only true way is going to pc only worlds unfortunately to actually avoid kids

And group instances still often are full of kids when all moderators left

If you want to play a game world blocking also usually breaks the game

[naive bluff]

Jeeeeez. You must really hate kids.

[half tapir]

Less hate more i don't want to interact with any

They're not pleasant to be around with

[naive bluff]

I don't bother with them unless they get in my face or be annoying.

[cosmic cobalt]

I don’t mind kids unless they’re actually younger than 13

Usually if they’re old enough to actually be included in the TOS they’re at least bearable to be around

[severe heart]

soon™

[muted kayak]

I'm thinking about next year

like mid-2024

[severe heart]

..yeah im like 13, thats within the limit of some/most social medias

[severe heart]

so in may-ish?

[cosmic cobalt]

13 is the limit for VRChat

[severe heart]

yup

[cosmic cobalt]

Anything younger than that is subject to be banned

[severe heart]

yep.

[muted kayak]

Yeah, but that's just a estimation

[severe heart]

yeah

[muted kayak]

it can be end of this year, or even 2025

[severe heart]

hm

[muted kayak]

But in the first dev update annoucing VRChat Android (in march), they said that the game will be avalaible in june/july for VRC+ users, and we got it in August.
And for the public release, they said 3-6 months after the first VRC+ build, so between november of this year and february 2024.
But since they are also working on 10 million things, my estimation would be around may just to be safe.

In the same dev update, about the public release, they also said "As previously noted, this may change. This date depends on how much work we need to do to improve the UI and UX.".

So it can be even later than may.

No one have a precise date, but may is a good estimation.

[severe heart]

yeahh, awesome.

[ancient birch]

You saying this makes it seem like I hate Questies. I don't hate questies, all I said about THEM is that I shouldn't be expected to optimize my content for them. As far as the kids, sure you can BLOCK them, but you're missing my point. There are way too many kids younger than 13 on this game, so whether or not I run into them isn't the problem, it's that they are simply in the game.

[ancient birch]

Fr. They are "bearable" A lot of people even at the age of 13 can still be a bit annoying to be around. Not every 13 yr old, but that's why I try and be friends with people over the age of 18, cause I at least know I'm safe with them.

[hybrid tendon]

Hello,does someone know how do i subscribe to vr chat plus in android? I search for it but it dont show up

[naive bluff]

You can't?

You can only sub via Steam or Meta Store.

[tawdry rapids]

Well guys, idk what heppend, but my friends gave me this picture of my avatar while playing murder 4 in mobile

[lilac delta]

ah yes goomba's

[dreamy sand]

Has anyone else had this happen when playing on mobile data. It only seems to happen when I'm not connected to wifi and why will it not let me download more that 10 mb on mobile data.

[muted kayak]

Canny time I guess

https://feedback.vrchat.com

[ancient birch]

That only happens to me when I'm in front of a mirror

[muted kayak]

I tried VRChat on my new Pixel 7a, and wow it runs so much better

Also for some reasons I wasn't limited to PTT while using the phone's speakers

[ancient birch]

You're having all the luck

You can do a test for me? Can you load into the world "The Fox Hearth" I wanna know what you see

I see pink textures in that world on my phone

[muted kayak]

tbh, that's more annoying than anything else, especially for the other people since they will hear themself

[muted kayak]

Hold on

[muted kayak]

Hm

Let me check the world on Quest, because it might be an issue with the Quest version of the world

@ancient birch Yup I was right.
There is the same issue on Quest, so the issue is the Quest version of the world, and not your phone/VRChat.

[half tapir]

Embrace pink error shader

[frozen plank]

Btw if ya'll get a chance to test with some friends, check for this: https://feedback.vrchat.com/mobile-alpha/p/1335-microphone-is-stuttering

Could definitely need some more testing / info (devices / hardware affected)

[native igloo]

||u forgot to post it to vrc-canny channel on vrcprefabs.||

[frozen plank]

Wa!

You're right

[native igloo]

I did it now.xd

[frozen plank]

So far that's definitely the biggest dealbreakd of using the alpha live

While people will understand you, you need to repeat some thing's and it's hard to contribute to conversations without feeling like you're more interrupting than anythign else.

(Ofc there is many other things to do, but this is at least for me one of the biggest dealbreakers)

[native igloo]

[ancient birch]

Oh. I never went to the world in quest so I assumed it was okay.

Damn

[muted kayak]

It's definitely related to performances.

On my Redmi Note 10 Pro that have a average of 20FPS, I had this issue (but I was understandable), and starting to 15FPS (and lower), no one could understand me.

Today, I got a Google Pixel 7a (which is 2 to 3 times more powerful), and I still had the issue but it was less stuttering than on my old phone.

I also have a friend that have a Samsung Galaxy S20 FE and it didn't seems to have the issue (I will try to double-check anyways.

[frozen plank]

Yeah, that's something that needs to be handled some what prioritised

[muted kayak]

About the PTT thing, I understood why I could use always on with speakers

When I played normally this morning, I was limited to PTT, and when enabling the microphone, it lowers the sound of the game

BUT, when I turned on my laptop, my phone connected to it via bluetooth (because I use phone link), and so the game detected my laptop as a bluetooth audio device.

And since the bluetooth audio mode of phone link only works when you do a call, the game was still using the phone's microphone and speakers while thinking that I was using a bluetooth audio device.

[ancient birch]

I didn't think of that! I should try it

[muted kayak]

Talking about audio, the thing that they need to fix is the fact that you need to reload the world when switching the audio device, which is annoying.

[scarlet latch]

Hi, is there a way to subscribe in vrc plus without having to launch vrchat in pc or quest. But just in mobile or browser online?

[ancient birch]

Yes exactly

I was wondering why the hell I need to do that

[muted kayak]

Nope

[ancient birch]

sigh You gotta subscribe through steam.

If you go to the VRChat Plus' ad website, it would just take you to steam

Or Meta Oculus

[scarlet latch]

I tried that, however. I think steam page tells me as well to launch the game to subscribe :/

Before I subscribe, is it okay if anyone can try a world for me?

Was wondering how Initial D maps would perform or work in mobile, since it needs some controls to drive cars

[muted kayak]

let me try it for you

[scarlet latch]

Thanks man! Please do Initial D - Lake Akina

[muted kayak]

Which one ?

oh ok

[scarlet latch]

Lake Akina please, ty!

[muted kayak]

The first one, right ?

[muted kayak]

oh

[scarlet latch]

That one, since its optimized on Q2

Was curious about the controls if cars are drivable in mobile

[muted kayak]

How are you supposed to start a car and drive it

[scarlet latch]

I think in PC its enter im not sure. I play in Quest 2

[muted kayak]

With touch controls, you can enter the car, but you can't do anything (not even exit the car)

[scarlet latch]

Oh right, is there no buttons?

[muted kayak]

One issue for now of the Android version is that a lot of keys/buttons are missing

[scarlet latch]

Oh I see

[muted kayak]

But the Android version support a full fat keyboard and mouse, and maybe it can work

but I don't have a USB keyboard, so I can't test

[scarlet latch]

Well then id stay it is still on early version heheh, thanks for trying man appreciate it!

[muted kayak]

The game also support controllers, but I didn't tested that

But at least you can enter a car and have a friend drive for you

[scarlet latch]

I wouldnt go with a usb keyboard since it defeats the purpose of being mobile haha

Oh supports controllers? Interesting

But yeah I might wait for later version as devs might implement button mapping controls

Was the world laggy though?

[muted kayak]

For me it wasn't, but it entirely depend of your phone

[balmy pilot]

I ended up putting touchscreen controls on my Android version

[dreamy sand]

I'm feeling like the limitations they added recently is more restrictive than what my phone is capable of. Before it updated the only issue I had was with the mirrors causing lag and not avis. I would like to use the mobile version to find avis when I'm on my breaks at work so that I can spend more time with friends when I get home. If the avis are guest and pc for mobile it work for me when trying to find avis that people can see when I play (I play PCVR).

[naive bluff]

....What?

[muted kayak]

VRChat will never allow very poor avatars on Android.
And eventually, they will also block very poor avatar on Quest.

[muted kayak]

So if you want to make avatars for Quest, consider making them at least poor

[dreamy sand]

Well that is going to drive away people. Guess I'm not using the mobile version.

[thorny star]

Yeah. It's unfortunate but they should have ripped this bandaid off a while ago.

[naive bluff]

You're clearly not the target demographic.

[pearl mulch]

And the imposter system will make this a bit less awkward

[vale edge]

Imposter should come before removing access to people's content that has existed for years...

It's called give and take.

Not take and maybe eventually give.

[pearl mulch]

I'm guessing it's a case of them wanting to not do redundant work with putting out a imposter system for 2019 that was going immediately get replaced by unity 2022

[barren field]

I can't imagine much will be different as they're still using the same render pipeline

[vale edge]

"I'm guessing" yes u are

[balmy pilot]

no access is being removed, you still have the same access, you just can't access it on the new platform with a lot more varying devices that will be more impacted

[vale edge]

No access is being removed but you can't access it on mobile.

Lol ok

[thorny star]

I mean, mobile never had access to VP avatars

[balmy pilot]

It's not being added to mobile. You couldn't get on mobile at all before this

[vale edge]

Initially you could load your own VP avatar on mobile...

[balmy pilot]

so saying "removed access" is disingenuous

Because that was unintended

[vale edge]

The main difference between quest and mobile is the inability to access VP. You initially were able to see your own VP, mistake or not that does not matter. Not looking to play semantics and word games.

[balmy pilot]

Anyway I'm not engaging with you since I'm sick of all the complaining about VP avatars day in and day out. It's not going to change.

[vale edge]

Access to content in a user generated game should be dictated by the user and their use of safety tools, not the brand choosing to remove access to content that has historically exited for years and been allowed.. obviously this will upset people. Especially since most will take it as a sign of VPs entire removal from quest.

[thorny star]

It has been warned from the beginning that VP avatars on quest could go away at any point, but I still think it sucks to give creators this much time to create VP content and let them get comfortable with it. It should have been done a lot sooner

[vale edge]

Yes. Warned as a footnote on a page likely few ever read considering most use videos for tutorials.. not warned in the SDK...

[thorny star]

I think it should have been warned in the SDK too.

[vale edge]

Hell, I use the vrc docs a ton and I had never even noticed that despite years of using the docs site

[thorny star]

It should have been made much more obvious and acted on with a lot more timeliness.

[vale edge]

The fact it wasn't, and the fact it's been officially allowed for years. And the fact it's so widespread. Makes removing access to it outright problematic. Obviously this will chuff people.

I'm not even against it's removal as a rank. Making it so people can't upload more VP and making them slowly go away naturally. Disabled by default. Etc. But outright removal of community made content that was officially allowed for years before a alternative exists. Is kinda bad taste to me is all

[thorny star]

I absolutely agree

[hybrid tendon]

Considering future devices like the Quest 3 are going to be more powerful, it doesn't make sense to remove Very Poor avatars on quest anymore, eventually in a few years after Quest 2 is deprecated we wouldn't be worrying about these performance headroom problems

And before you say the Quest 2 isn't going to be deprecated, I would point you to the Quest 1, which lost support everywhere after it was deprecated

[vale edge]

Just funny how currently, I can load VRC and see my friends and my VP avatar on my Quest 1 but my cellphone with vastly better specs and more than double the memory, I'm not allowed to.

[pearl mulch]

they still plan on selling the quest 2 alongside the quest 3 so it's deprecation point would be a lot later

[hybrid tendon]

The thing they are considering for phones is not everyone is going to have a phone that can handle VP avis, not everyone is gonna have a phone with 12 gbs of vram and a powerful processor, so you need to consider those points too, this also starts a process where people can make mobile friendly avatars that people can use alongside quest and pc avatars, instead of outright using quest avatars and hoping it works

[pearl mulch]

it's also possible to be running VRchat on your 12 GB phone with like 60 Chrome tabs open in the background sucking up Ram

[hybrid tendon]

For example, I'm already in the process of making a mobile version of my main avi that I can use on the go, though despite the problems others have been having, I can still see some of my vp quest avis on my phone...

[vale edge]

If you can personally see your own VP avatar you're wearing then you likely haven't updated your app

[hybrid tendon]

Hasn't given me the option to update my app

[muted kayak]

But that's something VRChat seems to like to do.
You would know that if you were on VRChat last year same month.

actually it was in july, not august my bad.

[grim frigate]

There an option to make the app run in background yet?

I removed vrc from standby mode in android battery settings, still everytime switching app, i have to relogin

[muted kayak]

I don't think so

[muted kayak]

It's a known bug

https://feedback.vrchat.com/bug-reports/p/1333-alpha-pink-shader-issue-when-rejoining-the-instance-during-the-loading-scre

[hallow vale]

its probably been said a lot but i cant change my avatar for some reason

[hybrid tendon]

If its very poor thats why

[hallow vale]

but it even shows when i click on it tho

[hybrid tendon]

Ik

[hallow vale]

i was thinking that was the case

[hybrid tendon]

Can't change into very poors on android

Can do anytime under that tho

[hallow vale]

are the requirements for android the same as quest or nah

[hybrid tendon]

Yup

Only thing is quest can see very poor lol

[hallow vale]

guess ill stick with my fallback lul

[leaden basalt]

It needs minimum of 6gb ram

[hallow vale]

i have 12 somehow

[fringe helm]

https://files.aries.fyi/2023/08/31/370482273a704e82.mp4

[autumn hare]

Pretty world

[hybrid tendon]

My phone will not allow me to play VR chat on it

It says that

[hybrid tendon]

Thank u

[hybrid tendon]

Why everytime I try to load into a world it tells me to update my game but there is no update for my phone on the app it every world to

[native igloo]

u may on older version of instance, try new instance

or maybe app is not yet ready to get updated

[tough bobcat]

It says I have to have some kind of membership to play vrc mobile

[native igloo]

vrc+ only

[ancient birch]

Yeah can't play without VRC+

[quasi field]

Soo, I feel like it got answered before, but is the android version network compatible with the latest version

[balmy pilot]

(hasn't been updated just yet from what i can tell)

[native igloo]

ah

[quasi field]

Alright, thanks for that info.

Btw if anyone was wondering how much ping you would have on a air Canada flight, well here the answer

[hybrid tendon]

I used to get a spike of 13k ms ping just from being outdoors travelling

[ancient birch]

I wish I could play VRC on my phone more. I just can't 😦

My phone isn't good enough

I need to upgrade at some point

[hybrid tendon]

Here is me with not wanting to kill the phones battery life because of this game

[ancient birch]

Well yeah that too. Doesn't really bother me much as O never stayed on the game long wnpugh for it to happen

[hybrid tendon]

I have only bought this phone for 3 months

[ancient birch]

My phone just gets hot sometimes

When I play the game

[hybrid tendon]

That's good

[native igloo]

normal

[ancient birch]

Good that or good that it gets hot

[hybrid tendon]

Good that you don't stay on the game for long for your phone to overheat

[ancient birch]

Oh yeah

Longest I was on was 12 minutes I think

[hybrid tendon]

For me, it was 45 minutes, and I could felt the warm at the back :))

[ancient birch]

I loaded into like 2 or 3 worlds. Gumball lounge doesn't allow me to load into it. If it does its rare

I have my phone in a case so that probably doesn't help

[hybrid tendon]

Same

[ancient birch]

I love my phone case. Need a new one tho. Screen protector is all scratched up xD

Thing that pissed me off once was when I got this phone and I got a phone case for it I got the wrong one. Because there's two different A71s

And I didn't know that. So I got the one for the wrong version xD

[hybrid tendon]

Two different A71s?

[ancient birch]

Either than or A70-

But there was the 5G A71

[hybrid tendon]

Oh okay

[ancient birch]

And like another one that wasn't 5G or something

[hybrid tendon]

I get you

Because I have an A51 that doesn't have 5G band

[ancient birch]

Yeah

[hybrid tendon]

Samsung does that

[ancient birch]

For some reason xD

[hybrid tendon]

[ancient birch]

I used to have 3 phones but I think I threw them out. Except one

And I doubt that could handle vrchat

Cause it's the A51 I think

Hate how different phones experiences vrchat different >< Why can't it just be universal

[hybrid tendon]

Oh, I tried

[ancient birch]

But then again it can't. Becaus same works for different PCs

[hybrid tendon]

With the A51, it instantly overheated XD

FPS could be only around 30 on average

[ancient birch]

Weirdly enough I have a friend who has an A71 and their experience was different than mine

Their A71 is just bad. Cause it overheats even on YouTube

Even tho it's the same exact phone as me. Well maybe

[hybrid tendon]

That's kind of concerning

[ancient birch]

Yeah right?

Actually lemme bother them. @glad creek get in here

You should talk about how bad your A71 is lol

He may not talk for a bit tho

He fixes phones for a side hobby anyway so

[hybrid tendon]

Funny enough, I used to think of getting M51 instead of A51, but decided to get A51 because I didn't think of gaming much

[ancient birch]

What's M51?

[hybrid tendon]

Then nowadays, I kind of regret that decision

It's also a Samsung's midrange phone, but somewhat better performance wise

Said that M series phones use Snapdragon chips

[hybrid tendon]

I have a pretty strong favor in collecting old phones

[ancient birch]

I hate how I try and try to clear up ram but it NEVER works

[hybrid tendon]

So I understand your friend

[ancient birch]

Mine uses Snapdragon I believe. I can't remember that one app I downloaded to check it

[hybrid tendon]

The RAM ultility does work, it's just dependant on the actual programs and caches that they left, which usually might not be that much

And the rest is reserved for the system

[ancient birch]

Yea

[ancient birch]

Ahbits called 3DMark

It also puts your phone through a test

[hybrid tendon]

Ah, that app

[ancient birch]

According to 3DMark I have this

I have a Snapdragon of sorts

[muted kayak]

If you don't have a huge budget, you can consider the Pixel 7a

[reef venture]

android version?

yeeeee

[muted kayak]

You are a bit late to the party, but yes.

You just need VRC+ (for the alpha only), and a powerful enough phone

[reef venture]

Yea, this is so gratifying. If the operation is stable. The Android version will help me save on my electricity bill.

I have an android with snapdragon 865 but only 8gb of ram. Don't know if it works okay.

while Vrchat game on pc consumes 18gb~25gb of ram.

[muted kayak]

It should be okay

[muted kayak]

The game on Android is much more limited than on PC (which is normal)

[pearl mulch]

like there's no very poor avatars available on Android so the amount of vram consumed has a finite cap

[rose leaf]

to save on electricity, consider undervolting your CPU/GPU, and underclocking if needed

[reef venture]

the phone only consumes 5~7w. And on PC Although reducing the graphics card clock. Or the CPU, it's still inefficient. Release on the phone is a good signal for the electrical environment. 😸

[rose leaf]

sure, it would definitely be a big saving, but you're playing an entirely different game at that point

none of the same avatars (unless they are manually optimized for quest), not as many worlds, and of course, no VR aspect if you're playing on a phone

[muted kayak]

Until imposters

Better than nothing

and about worlds, most popular worlds are Quest compatible anyways

and when the android version will release officially, the number of android compatible avatars will start to increase.

[reef venture]

Yea, maybe VrChat will release Unity Avatar specifically for mobile. Or is it a separate server for the mobile market?

[rose leaf]

imposters will not have any of the functionality or customization of a normal avatar

[reef venture]

Yes, android is a good market for players. Although sales have not increased much, it is easy to reach new players.

[rose leaf]

the android version uses the same content as Quest, except without Very poor avatars

[muted kayak]

But at least you can see the avatar, instead of a completly different one.

[muted kayak]

Soon, you will remove the second part of your sentence...
because VRChat also plan to remove very poor avatars on Quest

and if VRChat do that, the number of android compatible avatars will increase by A LOT

[reef venture]

haha. Because the Very Poor avatar causes my computer to crash constantly. Xeon CPU 10 cores 20 threads, Ram ECC REG self-correcting also can't stand this game.😹

[rose leaf]

if people decide to not be lazy and optimize their stuff, which is wishful thinking. sure, some people will still do it, but it's unreasonable to think everyone will put in the effort to optimize things to not be VP

[rose leaf]

many cores above a certain amount will not help VRChat, not everything can be multithreaded. if it's an older CPU, each core individually will be weaker than a newer chip

[muted kayak]

Not everyone indeed, but everyone that do commissions, and that offer a Quest version, will be forced to optimize their avatar to be at least poor.

And if you are lazy, polytool exists

https://markcreator.gumroad.com/l/Polytool

It's $25, but it works really well for something that you just click on a button and it does everything for you, and which doesn't require blender at all.

[reef venture]

God, trust me, even if you have 128GB ram or a 3070 card, it still crashes often. This game mainly uses Unity to upload avatars. Many avatars have multiple bones so each time someone uses an avatar there will be multiple bones to animate. That causes my computer to constantly blue screen.

[rose leaf]

I have not experienced a crash in months. the game is not unstable. driver problems or old hardware can lead to crashes or bluescreens

the fact that it uses Unity does not inherently make it unstable. many popular games use Unity just fine, like Boneworks, Beat saber, and many others

[reef venture]

Not to mention I also use ecc reg ram which has its own self-correcting chip and still crashes frequently.

[rose leaf]

that will not help you if you have a driver causing issues

ECC ram is typically not required for most consumer applications, unless you're working next to a nuclear reactor or something

next time you have a bluescreen, take note of the error code, and check logs in Event viewer. you can narrow down the cause of the issue and fix it

[ancient birch]

Ehhhh... I was told the Pixel 7a isn't as good. I can't remember but someone told me the Pixel 7a may have bigger space but something about it wasn't as good. I guess I can't argue because I don't remember about it

[muted kayak]

I got the phone 2 days ago, and I didn't have any deal-breaker issues for now

[reef venture]

...Amen

[muted kayak]

VRChat runs really well on it, photos are really good, battery life is okay (but I heard that it will be improved by a lot on Android 14), the phone doesn't overheat on VRChat (but I had some cases where the brightness lower a bit, but again that has been improved on Android 14).

[reef venture]

Not much improvement. It depends on the kernel used on the phone. I'm an android kernel developer. So I understand that. Since Google released Android 12 and above, the phone has been consuming more and more RAM. This really hurts me because the phone consumes more RAM than the PC. 🤧 That's why phones are gradually having more ram like 12GB, 14GB, 16GB, 24GB more swap ram on UFS. Blas Blas... But it's best to still use a powerful chip like 8 gen 1, 8 gen 2. I'm looking forward to the launch of 8 gen 3.

[ancient birch]

Whay phone do you recommend then?

[ancient birch]

So I forgot. He told me he has his A71 overclocked past factory. So it runs faster but hotter

[hybrid tendon]

Ah. I didn't know such overclocking exists for Android phones

[ancient birch]

Like I said he knows a lot and messes with them like crazy

So he does stuff like that

[warped thistle]

Hello, on Android we dont have the 1344 or it's juste the time to google play valide the update or we are on an other update canal ?

[muted kayak]

It will be released soon

[warped thistle]

Noice

Oh mais t'es français toi : D

On ce serait déjà pas croisé dans le vff ou ailleurs ton avatar me dit un truc

[hybrid tendon]

Ho salut un français en vue

XD je panser etre solo

[thorny star]

far from it

[hushed mesa]

Awesome!

[muted kayak]

Maybe...

[hushed mesa]

I'm loving vrchat on the fold I just wish I could play it right now

Hopefully tue update pushes for mobile soon

[muted kayak]

From #announcements

[hushed mesa]

Wooooo

Heccin yes

Time to I guess optimize my poly count on my avatars for mobile uwu

This is a flex for sure lol

Can't wait to find a con with a mirror and say hi to my vrchat avatar in game while I'm irl hahahaha

[muted kayak]

Time to suffer on blender

[hushed mesa]

Polytool looks great I was gonna try that

[muted kayak]

But suffer to flex on your friend because you actually spend time doing what everyone should do.

[muted kayak]

This is also a solution

Sadly, I don't have the money for yet

[hushed mesa]

I'm kinds shocked how well it runs on Android vs PC

[thorny star]

Polytool is nice if you have literally no inclination for Blender

It's kinda finicky but you can get good results out of it

[hushed mesa]

Makes me realize how unoptimizied the PC avatars and worlds are lol

Why I crash so often on PC with. Good hardware

[hybrid tendon]

Do you know what time exactly

[muted kayak]

Nope.

[hybrid tendon]

Ok

[thorny star]

Between 2 and 3 o'clock

[ancient birch]

I wouldn't call it a flex. Like we discussed many times. I think the effort in making avatars optimized should be more of an option rather than expectation.

[frozen plank]

Sorry but no

Not only would basically no one do it

But you harm the users

[muted kayak]

I disagree

[ancient birch]

It would be nice for people on quest/android. But also have to remember the people that DID go through the effort on making avatars quest compatible now have to go through MORE EFFORT because VP getting removed

[frozen plank]

If your avatar is VP you didn't really go trough effort

[ancient birch]

I disagree.

[frozen plank]

And again, if it's harmfull much, then it's absolutely not good to keep.

Rather have fallback than harmful avatars

[ancient birch]

Actually that sounds more insulting to me. I don't make avatars but that sounds insulting

[ancient birch]

blocks avatar

[muted kayak]

Unoptimized content = runs like shit = people not happy

[ancient birch]

Woah I'm a life saver

[muted kayak]

then what's the point of uploading a avatar that no one will show because it's not optimized and take 4GB of VRAM ?

[ancient birch]

Actually that's based off your software n stuff

[thorny star]

New users don't know how to block avatars, or even have any idea what is causing their shit performance

[ancient birch]

Like if you can't handle it just block it

[frozen plank]

Which you'll have to do for nearly everyone because without the limit nearly no one has the incentive.
Which overall makes it much worse of a spread of content.
PLUS not everyone knows that.

[ancient birch]

Then that's why they ask for help

Not be an ass about it

[frozen plank]

Sorry but not how it and steering the community works.

[thorny star]

I can see you've never delivered a customer facing application before

[frozen plank]

mhm

[thorny star]

That's wishful thinking

[ancient birch]

No but I have worked for customer service

[hushed mesa]

It's 100% a flex to open up my foldable phone and play vrchat what do YOU MEAN

[muted kayak]

And that's what hapenned with recent AAA PC games, where devs released unoptimized, broken, and not finished games (that's not devs fault tho).

[hushed mesa]

That's the coolest fuckin thing ever haha

[frozen plank]

Then you should know how unknowing or outright stupid DAU's can be

[ancient birch]

I worked for Walmart

It's shit

[thorny star]

New users don't even understand that VRChat shouldn't be running like that

[ancient birch]

And?

That's why the community is supposed to help them

That's why people come in here and ask why my vp is showing

[thorny star]

Again, you're asking a lot out of users that aren't invested in the platform in any way

[ancient birch]

You're supposed to help them understand

[ancient birch]

If they aren't invested then why waste time playing?

[hushed mesa]

Wtf is VP

[ancient birch]

Or waste time on avatars

[muted kayak]

very poor

[ancient birch]

For their benefit?

[hushed mesa]

Oh

[frozen plank]

The majority of the userbase, especially for mobile content, will only optimise as far as they have to for the worst but compatible performance rank.
That's the reality of content creation with the broad userbase.

[hushed mesa]

Ty

[frozen plank]

And that content is harmful for the platform

[hushed mesa]

Is the limit for mobile avatar polys 20k?

[thorny star]

I really feel like you're not making these arguments in good faith. Have you never tried a new game out of curiosity?

[muted kayak]

Yup

[ancient birch]

Yes obviously

[hushed mesa]

Thought so

[ancient birch]

I ask for help if I need help

[frozen plank]

Yeah. Which even was the PC limit years ago

[muted kayak]

And it's plenty enough, you don't need 120k polygons for a avatar

[ancient birch]

Because that's what common sense is

[hushed mesa]

Sad it's not 40k but oh well makes sense

[thorny star]

Common sense is a myth.

[ancient birch]

Glad you admitted it

[hushed mesa]

25k lol yep I remember those days

[frozen plank]

You'd be surprised what 20k can fit.

If you actually put in a little work 🙃

[hushed mesa]

I'm a veteran user I know too well

[ancient birch]

If even you admit common sense is a myth then you know everyone are idiots

[frozen plank]

ok

[ancient birch]

Even me and even the smartest people

[hushed mesa]

I miss the cool ranking system lol

[thorny star]

This is going nowhere

[ancient birch]

Good you know that

Means that's optimization goes nowhere

[hushed mesa]

And name tags I wish they would do a legacy name tag mode for vrc+ kinda like runescape

[ancient birch]

It's stupid to expect it.

If nobody wants to take th time then don't force it

[frozen plank]

Wrong and wrong.

[hushed mesa]

Jesus you guys argue over petty things

[ancient birch]

I think it's petty to expect people to optimize every little thing g

[hushed mesa]

I'm just happy to play vrchat on the go :>

[muted kayak]

Anyways, I don't have time continuing this discussion of not understanding that optimizing things is necessary, since VRChat is starting to move on mobile platforms and that they can't handle a avatar with 80k polygons and 18 materials slots.

[ancient birch]

Exactly you be happy playing.

[frozen plank]

If you don't encoruage it, people, and especially tool makers will use that aim.
And it's again better that people then have fallbacks rather than harmful avatars.

So saying "just give a fuck" over and over, shows you have no clue how it and community steering works.

[ancient birch]

I consider "harmful" avatars if they make you crash in thr worse way possible. If you crash normally, it could be the world not just an avatar

[frozen plank]

They... literally do tho xD

"Out of memory"

ever heard?
The biggest issue on mobile?

[ancient birch]

For quests

Amd probably phones

[ancient birch]

Well DUH it's a PHONE

[frozen plank]

It's an issue of the terrible content xD

[ancient birch]

I'd assume most phones aren't MADE to handle VRChat type games.

[frozen plank]

Especially the VP with stupid high textures and VRAM / RAM use
And you're defending them.

[ancient birch]

Unless it's a gaming handleable phone

[ancient birch]

It could be worlds and avatars

[frozen plank]

Have you even used or even slightly researched into the mobile platform, it's limit's and why it's problematic...

[ancient birch]

Can't just blame avatars

[ancient birch]

I'm glad you sound like you think mobile vrchat was a bad idea lol

[frozen plank]

It wasn't

YOUR Idea of content and limits is

And your completely wrong expecation of how the community works

[ancient birch]

My idea is the same idea of people who don't optimize because sometimes you just can't

[frozen plank]

Which is fine then... prevent them from uploading harmful content 🙃

[ancient birch]

Honestly I forgot people tell me people here are idiots. Why do I keep talking about it lol

[frozen plank]

Instead of saying "ah, whatever upload that junk and ruin peoples experience"

That's just a dumb take

But that's effectively what you want

[ancient birch]

I don't wanna talk about it honestly anymore I keep forgetting you guys think you know it all.

[thorny star]

Optimizing content takes effort and creativity, sure, but it's never impossible

[frozen plank]

And it's not an excuse to permit harmful content

[muted kayak]

Actually I have still a bit of time.
@ancient birch You are litteraly defending that people should continue uploading unoptimized avatars (and also at the same time, that very poor avatars should be allowed on Android), while playing VRChat on a phone that barely run the game.

[thorny star]

The hardware limitations we have to deal with are just the unfortunate reality of the situation. In an ideal world you would just upload your avatar once and it would be on whatever platform and work flawlessly, but that's just not the world we live in

[frozen plank]

And that while the content is being the single most important factor in the equasion.

[muted kayak]

If you had a overkill phone, I guess meh, but your phone would crash if it tried to load 5 VP avatars.

Anyways, on my side, my main avatar is good on PC, and poor on Quest/Android, and most of my worlds are 3D scans of IRL rooms done with my phone (so they are lightweight to display).

[ancient birch]

Here's a better way to put it. I can understand from y'alls perspective that it should be necessary for people to make avatars benefiting those on Android or Quest so that they can all see and not to miss put what PC sees. Also so it doesn't kill their frames or crash them. I understand what y'all are saying.

What I'm saying from MY perspective is I think it just SOUNDS again from my POV rude to demand people, who either have and/or haven't already made Quest compatible avatars that made their avatars V.P., to go through a lot of effort and time to fix their avatars. I also say this for people like me, or people with only a bit more understanding than me of Unity but still not having enough to fix what they need to make these avatars Quest compatible. Sometimes it can't just be textures, (I dont even know how to compress textures...) or amount of assets as yes its also Polys. Which means it becomes a greater issue, and a more required skillset to understand to fix it in like say, Blender. I know there are tools you guys have mentioned but some people have said it's not exactly always good- So although my argument isn't too well thought out or worded correctly, I do understand it's just other things that I mentioned that makes me think the way I do about it. I understand there are YT tutorials. However, I can't express how much recommending me that pisses me off as I have tried and tried looking at tutorials with no good result. So that's why I am at where I am in this discussion

[thorny star]

If you need help optimizing your avatar you can always ask the community

[ancient birch]

Ha ha. I have smart alec.

[thorny star]

There are literally multiple help channels in this very Discord

[native igloo]

yeah

[ancient birch]

Not helpful. Also not as simple like just getting someone to understand how blocking avatars work

[thorny star]

They are very helpful.

[native igloo]

also 80% people has low-mid end mobile device so hardware can support vp be like.....too too little to worry for.

and.....cpu be not that good yet.

[ancient birch]

Let me be a little more Blunt. I COULD ask for help. But let me see.... That's more time for me on something I have no interest in investing. Cause also not everyone has that time.

I don't have that kind of time. Is also my point.

[thorny star]

Well creating avatars takes time. That's just the way it goes.

[ancient birch]

Well I don't create avatars. I just buy and upload. That's it

[thorny star]

I might be able to agree with your point more if very poor wasn't literally unbounded. But it is.

[native igloo]

if u don't have time, then simply pay cash to people who do commission for it. worse it.

[ancient birch]

I mean the time I DO have I spend relaxing.

[ancient birch]

That's the the most worse suggestion I've heard from someone so far.

[frozen plank]

I think it's rude to expect VRChat to continue to support people in making platform killing content over just not displaying it at all.
If you can not make it to poor, then it's better you do not make a mobile version rather than making a bad mobile version.
Not making one is always an option as well, and that's why stuff like impostors is in the works.
You and many others not being either skilled enough (Or in many cases too lazy and stopping at the least efford limit) is not an excuse to keep tollerating it.

[native igloo]

it worse it often. I buy time by cash if neccesary.

[ancient birch]

I tolerate it because the said content takes hard work.

[frozen plank]

Do you use the mobile platform?

[ancient birch]

Yes

[frozen plank]

Do you really tho? 👀

[ancient birch]

But not often. I don't like it to much rn

I've tried it all on my experience

My avatars aren't the issues

Is the world's that crash me

[frozen plank]

Trying it is not a representation of being bound to it and having to use it.

[ancient birch]

Regardless worlds crash me not avatars

[frozen plank]

It all works together tho

But sure, worlds may also need stricter limits.

Doesn't mean Avatars are definitely not a problem

[ancient birch]

Well yea if your shield level is at 0.

I crashed in a lobby of 10 because I forgot to shield myself lol funny word

[frozen plank]

You do realise that the existance of the tollerance pretty much causes most content to be that way and having to limit even more content on your client?

Rather than getting more people to try to make the cut and see it.

What you're saying is, you pretty much already woldn't have an impact in the limit

[thorny star]

If everyone on Quest used a VP avatar you would need to hide all avatars just to play the game. That would make VRC an objectively worse experience.

[frozen plank]

And if they're already using a shield level to not show those... then where is the different and problem?

[ancient birch]

Not really. Although, I do wanna point out. You mention new users not knowing or understand how to block avatars. Tell me then why does vrchat keep creating things for their community if the point is to not just help us who do understand but also new people to their platform?

[ancient birch]

It doesn't bother me. Even in PC mode I have everyone's voice and avatar blocked unless they are talking to me or they are a friend

[thorny star]

Sorry, you lost me with that last part

[frozen plank]

You make it sound like VRChat is responsible for teching people asset creation

It's not tho

And not everyone has to make their own asset

But there is many great community assets and tutorials out there to help you

[thorny star]

It's not just about you though.

[frozen plank]

What i mean is, they said they use the shiled level to block those.
Then... what is the different if it was default blocked / not allowed anyway.
And isn't that confirming the theory that it helps, and is not gonna matter much.

[thorny star]

oh yeah true lol

[ancient birch]

Never said. Lol

I just said shield level exists for a reason.

[thorny star]

"It doesn't bother me."

You kinda did.

[ancient birch]

Th

That's because they MENTIOEND ME

[ancient birch]

THIS

[thorny star]

You were replying to me

[frozen plank]

Then... why fight it?

[ancient birch]

I guess I was I don't know

[ancient birch]

Because I'm not the avatar creator. And because I'm not one I have a BUNCH of PC only avatars.

So I'm upset I am feeling demanded to make my avatars optimized for others when that's not something I wanna invest time in

[frozen plank]

Then... don't?
It's as simple as that
If you don't even plan to make it poor or better, just don't.

[thorny star]

Nobody is demanding anything from you. Nobody is required to create avatars for VRChat.

[ancient birch]

.....

I guess it just keeps sounding like you guys are demanding

[thorny star]

FPaul has mentioned it before. If you don't want to optimize your avatar, that's fine. There are plenty of great fallbacks and publics available.

[frozen plank]

Or you can use community tools like Polytool that may not be perfect but will be better than nothing

[ancient birch]

I'm not gonna be If I am I'll stop the person who is fighting on others like avatar creators behalf when they don't need it

I just mean myself tbh

[thorny star]

wat

[ancient birch]

I just mean you guys aren't demanding me. I feelnlike I sound like someone who argues/fights others on someone else's behalf when they never seven said they needed it

I'm pretty dumb actually

I embarrass myself on a bases here :D

It so seems

[ancient birch]

Fair I suppose

[thorny star]

I mean, it's pretty reasonable to get upset about content being wiped or otherwise inaccessible, but it stings a lot less if you look at the bigger picture

[ancient birch]

Thats another thing.

I am mainly just worried about the content like PC and stuff getting absolutely removed

[frozen plank]

Especially when you aren't really the one on the platform and being even really affected by it.

[ancient birch]

Well it's not just android wouldn't VP get removed from PC too?

Like wouldn't it be universal?

[frozen plank]

I doubt it'll on PC... but there it's even easier to at least get to poor

[ancient birch]

I only have 20 Avis that are usable on android

[frozen plank]

That's... a good chunk.

[thorny star]

You can always beef up a PC, not so much the case with a phone or quest

I have literally two quest avatars lol

[ancient birch]

Not out of 100 something avis

[thorny star]

three actually

[ancient birch]

I mean favorited avis

[frozen plank]

The difference in computing performance and the scope of impact is also vastly different.

[ancient birch]

Am I the only one annoyed at the screen turning when opening the menu? I hope they stop that...

[frozen plank]

What do you even need 100 avatars for.

[ancient birch]

I HATE WHEN I TYPE s and it types A instead Aaa

[ancient birch]

I can never decide what I wanna be

[frozen plank]

But yeah, 20 is still plenty.

that's 3 weeks of a new avatar each weekday

[ancient birch]

I used to have 400+ avis with mods it wasn't bad I promise-

I loved have 600+ avis for no reason

I could just go back and forth changing avatars, cause I never could decide what I wanted to be

Although I have had a couple people in the past get angry at me for it so they had me blocked

Well avatar block. Because I changed so much

[balmy pilot]

From my perspective it is rude to forgo the stated performance ranks or any sort of optimization guidelines and upload extremely nonperformant and call it "quest compatible" 😛

[frozen plank]

Agreed

Especially doing that from a power position that isn't even affected by the content.

[ancient birch]

I mean if they do it intentionally then it would be rude

Like make it Super super bad on purpose

[frozen plank]

If you make something that's classed "very poor" and proudly tag that as compatible, then that is rude.
Sure it's technically right, but it's also the least possible effort one could have taken.

[half tapir]

To be fair while this is true certain systems throw you immediately to very poor

Like the thing requiring 2 lights for example

[frozen plank]

... okay ... but it also uses lights so.... yes?

That's bad?

Not to mention the system it self is... you know?

[half tapir]

Inactive lights

Afaik they never actually get activated, they're just there

[frozen plank]

If they never do anything

why do they need to exist?

[half tapir]

Ask the creator not me

Also i use GPU particles, which does throw me 30k over poly and over bounds limit. So yeah very poor too

[frozen plank]

Thing is, you have the choice not to / keeping it on a special show avatar

And as for the lights... sorry but absolutely zero respect or concern for that

If you use that, your fault. Lights suck. And that system overall is big nono for the game.

[half tapir]

I'm not complaining about it. I've a good and very poor version of my avatar already

I do not use the lights system. I only own it like i do a ton of assets which i don't actually use lol

I do have a single depth buffer light on my avatar though

Which is needed for touch reactions

[frozen plank]

Well still allows you to be poor

Lights do be lights

We're kinda drifting of tho

PC is still vastly different in how much it harms the platform it self.

So the debate on limits is very different there

[half tapir]

Yes, that's why i have a good rated version of my Public/private avatars besides the very poor versions that simply have the things not there causing it to be vp

On mobile my avatars are already at the very edge of poor

The edge being one poly/mat etc away from very poor

[frozen plank]

Same, but i still have plenty room if i had to, with some quality impacting optimization

4 mats gives you quite the room tho for lotta things

[half tapir]

3 mats is used for avatar itself and 1 is a trail marker

[frozen plank]

Trails work on quest?

[half tapir]

Yes

[thorny star]

yeah there's a super neat prefab (free! iirc) that lets you put a marker on your avatar

[frozen plank]

I mean if you really need your own local pen.

[half tapir]

The one i use works exactly the same on pc and Quest

[frozen plank]

3 still gives you lotta space with atlases.

[pseudo fulcrum]

It says I need to update to join a friend but there is no update available that I can see.
They cannot join me either.

Am I posting this in the wrong place?
This is in reference to the Android version.

[grizzled coral]

Would have expected that update to go live by now though.

But this is an alpha, so can't expect it to be the biggest priority atm.

[pseudo fulcrum]

Thank you very much for the information.
Android is currently the only way I can get to someone who is currently dealing with something and would benefit from my presence.
(It's been resolved. I can update now)

[frozen plank]

Just google playstore things

VRChat should probably make their own updater and just have that on the store.

And that updater pulls down the currentdata and can do so instantly.

[native igloo]

more likely security exploit and app can get deleted without notice by then...

[frozen plank]

I mean... i think vrchat can do better than just "download apk and run"

source certificates and checksums~

[little furnace]

No, run the random APK it'll be funny

[grizzled coral]

Would certainly be nice to have (for the unsupported usecases, like VM).

[native igloo]

yeah, not ideal

[frozen plank]

Mhm

could also allow launch options potentially

Like, maybe even make it a proper launcher that has the site stuff integrated and can launch to friends / worlds / invite links

I think in the long run a launcher is gonna be the way to go either way and not really avoidable.

[native igloo]

maybe like devide some part of app could be? like outsourxe yt-dlp but user need to install 2 apps as default if want to do that route.

[frozen plank]

there is nothign in terms of security that google can do that vrchat can't

VRChat can probably do it much better and even so they can update individual assets and integrate better options like launch links 'n stuff

[native igloo]

launch link more likely supported later.

[little furnace]

This alpha is incredibly alpha. There is still a lot of lot a lot of lot of work to do before it's actually ready to be used by the average person

[frozen plank]

Yeah

^^

I think at least for android in the long run a launcher is the way to go

[little furnace]

Play store visibility is very important

[frozen plank]

The launcher is there.

[little furnace]

But before they even reach that point they need to make it even worthwhile to ever launch VRC on Android

[frozen plank]

Many games have separate asset loading.

Not tied to the playstore dl.

[little furnace]

I know. I guess it depends on what your definition of a launcher is

And this uses separate assets

They're just all shipped via the Play Store

[frozen plank]

a front application that takes care of gamedata updates. (in time)
And can potentially handle even more things like have the website integrated and be able to join trough button and what not

But even if it's just a launcher that updates the game data, it's a win

[little furnace]

Once I can hop on and say hi to my friends without it taking 3 minutes to load in, Join a world, and then hope that if I accidentally hit the home button and minimize the app it doesn't immediately get task killed, then maybe VRC android will be worthwhile

I love Samsung power optimizations

[frozen plank]

you should be able to turn them off for the app

no?

[little furnace]

That's the secret. Even if you do that it doesn't fully get rid of what Samsung did to Android

You can do every exclusion possible but Samsung flavor Android will always be far more aggressive at murdering apps than stock Android

[grizzled coral]

Anyone know what purpose the requirement behind needing google play services?
I get that since that you need to apply to test it, there might be some blocking happening, but it was the thing that stopped me from being able to run it in WSA on Windows 11, I think, it just didn't start at all.

[little furnace]

Integrity checking

Also integrating with gplay in general

[grizzled coral]

Is that similar to anti-cheat, on a basic level?

[little furnace]

They use Google's play integrity API to prevent the loading of tampered APKs, loading on rooted devices, etc. TLDR; you can think of it as something kind of like an anti cheat

[half tapir]

i dont think they can do that? given any app that does it i know isnt on play store

[little furnace]

https://developer.android.com/google/play/integrity

[grizzled coral]

Really the person who did get it working on WSA, actually responded with how they did it.

[frozen plank]

I've had multiple apps on store that load asets on their own outside the playstore

[little furnace]

Any major game on the Play Store is going to use its own downloader

[frozen plank]

Yeah

[little furnace]

You want to keep the main download as small as possible

[frozen plank]

Yeah

And with the own downloader allow instant and reliable updates

[little furnace]

Whether or not they use an out-of-the-box asset or make something custom is a different topic

[frozen plank]

Google isn't apple

[half tapir]

oh you mean that, i thought more of a fortnite thing

[frozen plank]

on Apple this is gonna be a issue potentially

but not on Android

[little furnace]

They did actually use an out-of-the-box asset for updating the VCC back in the day

It's a fairly popular one that's used in a lot of games actually although most major studios have their own so that they own their entire tool chain there

[little furnace]

iOS is also much better when it comes to shipping updates

[vale edge]

Of all the large games on my phone, only Fortnite uses its own downloader frontend.

[little furnace]

Google Play is Google Play anyone who has worked with Android knows what that means

[frozen plank]

True that

[little furnace]

Fortnite did that because Tim Sweeney loves free games

[vale edge]

I'm aware. I was just saying.

[little furnace]

Or something like that

It also depends on what region you are talking about