hardware

[wind egret]

How did I not notice that 6000 was all mobile processors

I looked it up. Mobile hasn't skipped a number. It's horrible.

[grave sundial]

My Ant E-Sports GM320 RGB mouse was delivered today. 🙂

It's priced at Rs.2,500/- but Amazon was selling it for Rs.700/-, so it was a steal.

Some people complained about its weight, but it is lighter than my Circle Gaming mouse. It's heavier than the HP Gaming mouse though.

[pearl quartz]

Woohoo, AMD finally announced my next CPU

[grave sundial]

Congrats.

Time to fiddle with this.

[pearl quartz]

https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:2783x1559/1080x605/filters:focal(1392x780:1393x781):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25474481/ryzen9000vs14900k.png

[grave sundial]

I want to compare the x3D version of that.

Did they provide the price already?

[grave sundial]

https://antesports.com/product/ant-esports-crystal-x11-mid-tower-high-end-gaming-cabinet-green-black-with-pre-installed-4-x-120-mm-argb-fans/

What do you all think about this case?

[frank glade]

I dislike glass and rgb

Best cases right now are asus ap201 and upcoming Lian Li A3 matx

[grave sundial]

Why don't you like glass? Any specific reason or just aesthetics?

[frank glade]

Because you will see your cheapo parts, bad cable management and dust every day, also kinda tacky...it's just a PC

Fractal north does it perfect also

[grave sundial]

Well, what if I put a hamster in there?

Then, seeing it every day will be less tacky, no?

[thorn horizon]

at the end of the day all 3 of those will run perforce just fine, perforce puts a really low load on ur system, as long as ur cpu is half decent and you've got enough storage u're basically good. that being said having extra SSD space can be useful for moving files around and such. but i would personally host perforce on a SSD with automated back ups to an HDD just adds a bit more responsiveness. you generally won't max out even an older HDD on a 1gig home network connection, but the improved random read speed of especially lots of small files could be beneficial.
if i personally had to choose i'd go for the HP, slightly better CPU and bigger SSD, and toss in a HDD for back up storage.

[grave sundial]

Thank you! 🙂

[pearl quartz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGD41i5QCyk

future me running AMD/Intel 😅

[violet spade]

idk man, they're a long ways away from becoming mainstream, but if Nvidia gives up on the personal gpu market to focus on AI stuff, we may need to switch

[pearl quartz]

Nvidia priced me out of their hardware 🤷‍♂️

[violet spade]

truth

[pearl quartz]

I mean I could afford it short term but over the longer term that AI wont save my business because cash reserves still king

It'll be good to see if Intel GPUs are a more viable option, if they manage to keep the price down it could be interesting. Especially considering their RT performance compared to AMDs GPUs

[mental timber]

Yeah same here.

[grave sundial]

I am really hyped about AMD's x3D CPUs. The fact that you don't need a separate GPU to run 1080p games at 45-60 FPS with their processor has me quite pleased with the tech. The M-class GPU included in that CPU is 3% better than my GTX 970M. If they can carry on and improve that to even 2048p, I'd be super happy.

One less component FTW.

[agile lodge]

future mons running in cloud city powered by machines made by mons calamary in mons olympus mountain?

[grave sundial]

Cloud sounds great until you encounter intermittent connections and high latency, which is still prevalent in many parts of the world.

[agile lodge]

https://www.coolermaster.com/en-global/products/td500-max/

the case what dont have BTF but more power design option

https://www.hackster.io/news/canonical-launches-an-ubuntu-linux-image-optimized-for-the-risc-v-milk-v-mars-single-board-computer-d7fd8f802f93

[tough frost]

Hello friends, I will upgrade my build. So, I need yours advice.

My build now:
GTX 1660 SUPER
RYZEN 5 5600
2x16 G.Skill 3200 Mhz RAM
500 GB Kingston NV2
500 GB WD Blue SATA SSD
2x 1 TB WD BLUE 7200 RPM HDD
MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX II
AEROCOOL KCAS PLUS BRONZE 750W

I can buy these for 21.000: ASUS DUAL RTX 4070 SUPER 17.000
SAMSUNS 990 PRO 2 TB SSD 4.000

Or

I can buy these for 24.000

MSI VENTUS RTX 4070 13.500
AM5 Motherboard 2600-3000 (like ASUS TUF GAMING B650M-E)
Ryzen 5 7600 5000
Kingston FURY 32GB KIT DDR5 6000MHz CL36 Beast Black 2700

My max budget is 24.000

[opaque pond]

Can you look up gpu prices a bit more?

Cause there are definitely better deals than the 4070S you listed

[tough frost]

Yeah. I have one more option. Inno3d 15000. But material quality is enough? @opaque pond

[opaque pond]

inno3d what

[tough frost]

It's brand like palit and galax.

[opaque pond]

yes i know

which model

[tough frost]

Twin

https://m.alza.cz/inno3d-geforce-rtx-4070-super-twin-x2-12g-d9197036.htm

[agile lodge]

https://youtu.be/5UnIUXdQcUE?si=2lRwXElODoG76J0d

[frank glade]

Looks pretty cool though

[grave sundial]

My new RedDragon keyboard. It's mechanical with red switches.
It's resting on the new keyboard tray that I had installed today.

The blue gradient colour wave looks brighter than it actually is, thanks to the camera I think.

[fallen oasis]

Can't live with a TKL keyboard 😦

[grave sundial]

I thought so too. But, I have a full one right above that.

[fallen oasis]

You have a full laptop one.

That's still bad.

[grave sundial]

It's actually quite good. 🙂
But, I'll be wearing out several keyboard typing like a crazy person. It didn't make sense to break my laptop's membrane keys.

[violet spade]

It’s ugly 😛

[grave sundial]

j00 arZ wugly!!!! ✊ 😛

[mighty patrol]

Needs more red

[foggy rampart]

will the AMD Ryzen™ 9 9950X be the new king with an 80MB Cache?

[violet spade]

No

[fallen oasis]

Because somebody needs to argue over whether it's cash or cashay

[fervent jolt]

kayshay

cattchis

nobody knows because we all live on the internet and don't actually say the word

[fallen oasis]

My CTO is from Australia and says cashay.

[violet spade]

It’s cashews, get it right 🙃

[agile lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J392sSMOu4

[plush turret]

looks like a nightmare in houses with pets

[fervent jolt]

it would look really cool if someone put that inside a larger rectangular protective encasement, perhaps with a window on one or both sides, and some fans to help move air across the assembly

[orchid iron]

Anyone know where AMD, Nvidia and Intel put their software to implement in unreal engine 5 projects for their hardware?

Like frame generation and upscaling stuff

[agile lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/loop-triangle-gif-25984514

[plush turret]

so what happened to optaine memory?

i know it was a big selling point for a few years then vanished

[wind egret]

3dxpoint. Intel tried using it as a cache for laptop platter drives. But I don't think they ever made a second gen, and nand drives are now faster and have good enough durability.

[delicate crystal]

is there any compelling reason to pay more for the 3d version sof the v5 AMD processors? WOndering if the extra cache will be that much of a difference performance wise

[mighty patrol]

In general, the Ryzen 9 7900X3D outperforms the Ryzen 9 7900X in gaming benchmarks, particularly in games that take advantage of the 3D V-Cache technology. However, the difference is not drastic, and the 7900X still offers excellent performance in most applications.

So basically same for other 3d vs non 3d

[mighty cosmos]

I personally would avoid the X3D CPUs, from my experience working with them they are extremely unpredictable, the scheduling half of the time feels like it has no clue what to prioritize for the x3d cores
Some things are faster on them and some noticeably slower, like a lot slower, running even the same task gives different results based on what the scheduling decides to do
#programmer-hangout message

to make it worse they use the windows game bar to recognize what is a game and prioritize it (yep...)

[orchid iron]

Same specs as the 7950x btw, no joke, even Frequency is same

AMD has this Big features/Big efficiency cycles where each generation will either go for big impressive features or big efficiency/fixes
And even internally at AMD, they have 2 groups of CPU engineer team, one for the big features and one for the big efficiency

And zen5 (9000 series) was made by the same people who did zen3 (5000 series)
While the people who did zen 4 (7000 series) is now doing zen6 which from leaks and rumours sounds like they are redoing a lot of stuff

[mighty cosmos]

Frequency doesn't really mean much tho
Frequency and raw specs are not an accurate indicator of actual performance and ipc

it is only when comparing identical architectures

[orchid iron]

Yup, only 3rd party benchmarks for the specific workloads we do, actually matter in the end

[mighty cosmos]

yeah

[orchid iron]

Can't wait for them, also hoping that the X3D stuff isn't a down grade for work, would be cool to pay like 150$ extra for a CPU that also performs well in games

[mighty cosmos]

Yeah I've been waiting for the 9950x, gonna be retiring my 5950x, it served me well (well by "retite" I mean put in the 2nd pc lol)

[orchid iron]

What if the 9950x3d performs at worst, same as 9950x? Would you buy it?

If they somehow fixed 3d cache issues

[mighty cosmos]

it would be a big "depends", if they solved the issues with the current x3d cpus
Because I had questionable experiences with those

if they fixed their scheduling (aka not relying on the windows game bar to prioritize tasks) then I would go for the x3d version

[orchid iron]

Same

[delicate crystal]

ah so your'e not losing much performance wise, and saving a few hundred bucks

[mighty patrol]

Yeah pretty much

I got 7950x works fine

[grave sundial]

I just read in the news, that the new AMD 9x processors will not be faster than the 7x3D ones 'for gaming', according to AMD. https://wccftech.com/ryzen-9000-zen-5-cpus-arent-going-to-be-faster-than-ryzen-7000x3d-zen-4-in-gaming-says-amd/

🤷

[orchid iron]

Duh, x3D are far more optimised for gaming than their x variant which are aimed for workstations

Just look at 7000 series benchmarks with their x3d and x

[frigid heath]

seems like some neat tech, havent read up much on hardware lately

[quick mango]

Hey y'all, currently in search for parts for a PC. The big problem is the CPU and GPU. What should I do? Go with the Ryzen 5 7600 or the Ryzen 5 5600X? And for the GPU, should I take a 4060 or RX 7700 XT (what about a 4070 or RX 7900 GRE)

I want to be able to use it in Unreal, but not yk, make GTA 6 with it, but still wouldn't want to be forced to use UE3 cus It's not able to run UE5, heck even UE4 properly

[median marsh]

i'm using 3060 for UE5 and everything works pretty well actually

4060 is a good budget option, but only if you go for the 16GB version

[grave sundial]

I am on an ancient GTX 970M and using 5.4 just fine.
I don't think you've to worry about 'using' the software with modern cards.

[pastel blaze]

The RXs are pretty good, if you don't mind driver support being sometimes batty. Ryzen 5 7600 seems like a decent option if you can afford it.

Even a 6600/7600 should be fine

[grave sundial]

Just get the highest amount of VRAM you can afford.

[pastel blaze]

yeah, pretty much

I only have a 7900XTX because of VRAM

[orchid iron]

lol, I got 960m, and it runs fine aswell

[orchid iron]

I'd reccomend ryzen 7500f and nvidia 4060 TI, because if you pick a zen4 cpu, you'll be able to upgrade to more powerful ones

And like we mentioned, you don't "need" powerful gpus, just enough to the point where drivers and VRAM don't give you problems

4060 TI has 16 gb vram

[orchid iron]

radeon 7600 XT is also an option if you don't like NVIDIA

[frank glade]

But how are any of the newer epic samples running? Electric dreams or the matrix city?

[grave sundial]

I played the compiled demo of Matrix City when it first released, it was a while ago. It ran quite well. I tried to download it for UE right now, since you mentioned it. It's 95 GB-ish. I'll download Electric Dreams instead. It's only 50+GB. I'll let you know how it runs, in a bit. 🙂

[plush turret]

My laptop with an mx250 was good at loading projects and testing raw builds but its time to build was 60x the time estimates for my 3060 12gb for the same project

[grave sundial]

@frank glade Sadly, it crashed UE. I was able to load the 'full' electric dreams level. I saw the trees and the camera, and what not. It looked pretty, but as the shadows began to load, UE crashed.

[frank glade]

Well I have a 4060 on my laptop and I think its the lower limit, it can get 30fps but vram fills way too fast. If you are paid for your work and time definitely worth investing in something top of the range

[grave sundial]

I am going to try loading the Tokyo Stylized Environment from the marketplace. I think that was added recently. It should be smaller and maybe will load properly.

@frank glade

This one loads fine and I can move around without stutters. Playing in active viewport does have a bit of stutter, though.

It's quite pretty 😍

Right'o. Back to fiddling with book cover images.

[orchid iron]

fun fact: when your VRAM gets filled up, the GPU will use your PC's RAM as a backup

[agile lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45CvTHmt_dI

[fallen oasis]

Gotta love those AI videos.

[agile lodge]

https://youtu.be/UIqhpxul_og?si=3iRI5HTx3-EcmFD3

[plush turret]

nice but im sure its little more than a breadboard level

[orchid iron]

yes, was awesome, especially the AI mouse, 10/10

did you see the nvidia keynote sum up by gamer nexus, was very heavily meme worthy

[grave sundial]

Did anyone here have any problems with the 24GB Radeon RX 7900 XTX GPU?

[orchid iron]

what's the issue?

[grave sundial]

Nothing. General question.

[fervent jolt]

mine is ok

[grave sundial]

Did you have to fiddle with clockspeed or anything with the advanced GPU control software?

[fervent jolt]

nah. haven't even tried, too old for that shit now

[grave sundial]

Cool. Do you use it just for work, or have you gamed with it too?

[fervent jolt]

absolute tiniest bit of gaming but nothing modern since i bought it

[grave sundial]

All righty. 🙂 Thank you so much. 😍

[orchid iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytH3MzK0on8&pp=ygUTbW9vcmUncyBsYXcgaXMgZGVhZA%3D%3D

[orchid iron]

looks like they are very likely going to make both CCDs of the 9950x3D have a 3D V-Cache on them, which would solve all of the "parking cores" or "windows game bar" tweaking

[devout pendant]

what happened to my screen? Suddenly there is color banding

I have HDR on

if I turn HDR off the color banding is solved

[devout pendant]

I bought a PC with Zen 3.

Zen 3 lacks AVX512

damn

[orchid iron]

thankfully hdr isn't necessary to code ^^

[grave sundial]

If your code doesn't have the proper exposure, it'll be illegible in the dark shadows.

[orchid iron]

there are many settings you can tweak if you have issues looking at a screen

[grave sundial]

at which point you end up with proper HDR 😛
a joke

[devout pendant]

Screen got messed up after I played PCSX2

for some reason

plugged and unplugged the DP cable solved it. Somehow

[grave sundial]

These are the ways of the wrench - Russian-style ™️

[mighty cosmos]

Oh that would actually be really good
Yeah would solve pretty much all scheduling issues current ones have

[orchid iron]

best way to fix anything xD

[median marsh]

there's a reason why this works

old electronics mostly had cold solderings which made them "defect" so a nice slap might just put the contact back in place

[fallen oasis]

Cold soldering?

[hollow swift]

guys have any pc recommendations?

i wanna spend like 1300$

[ivory scroll]

I'd always recommend building your own. In that budget you could have a solid i5 14th gen (or something like ryzen 7), something like RTX3070, 32GB ram and an m.2 disc. If money is tight you can always look for second hand parts as well, like the GPU for example

Depends on where you live and what the prices are there as well ofc

(if we're talking about a desktop)

[barren goblet]

It will depend what your doing with it and what your expectations are as well

So keep that in mind

[ivory scroll]

they want to start with UE

[barren goblet]

Yeah that’s pretty entry level in my opinion

it would maybe get to mid level
For gaming

Price point I mean

but I Don’t Know I haven’t checked prices in a minute

[ivory scroll]

also depends on whether new peripherals are gonna be bought or not

[barren goblet]

Very true

[hollow swift]

nah i have all i need

just a new pc

[hollow swift]

i was think of getting

a i7 with a 2070 or 3050

[ivory scroll]

I wouldn't

[hollow swift]

with like 64 gigs of ram and then like 2tbh storage

[ivory scroll]

go at least for RTX3060Ti

[hollow swift]

geez that much

[ivory scroll]

second hand

[barren goblet]

Unreal likes vram haha

[ivory scroll]

3050 or any 20xx series is a waste of money

[barren goblet]

And cpu power XD

[fallen oasis]

Unreal like everything.

Except laptops.

[ivory scroll]

nobody likes laptops

:D

[barren goblet]

Yeah 😂

[fallen oasis]

Cats love laptops!

[barren goblet]

They like desktops too -_- 😂

[ivory scroll]

I mean I like my laptop, but I only use it for traveling and drawing cause it's touch with a pen

but game dev on a laptop, hell nah

[hollow swift]

so i7 with 3060?

[ivory scroll]

honestly I'd go for i5 with 3070

:D

[fallen oasis]

They prefer lap tops!

[barren goblet]

Ok fine XD you win

[ivory scroll]

the i5 14th gen is pretty powerful and I think you will benefit more from a better GPU in this case

or go ryzen 7 and save money

[thorn horizon]

gpu is more important than cpu, cpu is still important, but having a good gpu and higher VRAM is more important

[ivory scroll]

yep

[barren goblet]

mhm

AMD as much as I hate recommending it is cheaper and is very good

[hollow swift]

then why not just splurge on like a 4090

[barren goblet]

I mean that’s what I did XD

[ivory scroll]

because that's an entirely different price range

[fresh fog]

Yeah, you stated a price range, why would we go out of that 😆

[fallen oasis]

CPU is good if you wanna recompile the engine frequently. Other than that, not too much.

[barren goblet]

You also need a lot of support components to go 4090

[hollow swift]

fair

[barren goblet]

Yeah a 4090 by itself won’t fit in a 1300$ price range XD

[fallen oasis]

Plus a fire extinguisher.

[barren goblet]

yes that’s critical

[ivory scroll]

I think 3060Ti is a great option to save a little bit more money but still have a bang for your buck

[fallen oasis]

Anything with 12gb vram is great.

[hollow swift]

dang

okay

what i will do then

is save up 2000 dollars

[barren goblet]

Yeah like US prices cheapest one is like 1700$

And they only go up from there

[ivory scroll]

the thing is if you get 4090 you will also need all the other components a lot better to match and not bottleneck

[barren goblet]

Exactly

[ivory scroll]

and also things like a better case for better airflow, and a much powerful PSU

more expensive water cooling

etc

[barren goblet]

Yep really REALLY good cooling

Fast ram, high end CPU

[ivory scroll]

because your PC will become a heating unit for the entire block

[fresh fog]

If you're going for a 4090 you might as well also be going for a chunky few tb of storage, a ryzen 9 7900x/i9 14900k, and 96-128GB RAM sort of thing

[fallen oasis]

Damn. Cheapest 4090 on amazon is £1600. (about $1900!)

I thought they'd be cheaper by now.

[barren goblet]

Yeah it’s gross lol

[fresh fog]

I really want to upgrade my GPU but I'm not on principle

[barren goblet]

I lucked out with mine….got it for 1600 lol

[fresh fog]

Hell I want to build a whole new system, but nah

[ivory scroll]

I'm happy I upgraded to DDR5 this year and I'm happy with my 3070 so I'm good for the next couple of years 😄

[barren goblet]

I’m really debating going 128 lol but I Don’t Know

[ivory scroll]

Is that actually useful for something? like noticeably? I upgraded from 32 to 64 this year and honestly I don't really see much difference lol

[barren goblet]

Highly depends what you do

[hollow swift]

geez so expensive lol

[barren goblet]

For me I run a lock of docker and server stuff

So extra ram is nice

[hollow swift]

i have a 1660 super rn

and a i5

[plush turret]

i like my 3060 12gb

[ivory scroll]

I also have another thing in my mind, like for game dev I don't actually want a super mega computer because then I'll get a false security how well my game is running, and then when someone with an average computer runs it it's gonna be terrible 😄

[barren goblet]

See I thought the same thing. But my wife has a more mid range PC

so she does all my testing XD

[hollow swift]

is a 1660 good enough to start learning?

[ivory scroll]

actually a great point, I could just use my girlfriend's pc 😄

[fresh fog]

Depends if you want the shiny DX12 stuff or not

[ivory scroll]

also the game I released I tested it on my laptop without a dedicated GPU and it runs pretty well on low details so I was happy with that :D

[fresh fog]

If you want to use it in UE4 mode it's fine, but if you want some of the UE5 stuff you'll just crash repeatedly

[hollow swift]

well i just want to learn and stuff

so nah

[ivory scroll]

but that's the thing, you will not be able to learn some of the stuff because you will not have access to it :D

[fresh fog]

The "and stuff" is pretty critical.
For example Nanite and Lumen are off the table

[hollow swift]

geez

that sucks

[ivory scroll]

for UE5 I would really consider getting at least the 3060Ti

[hollow swift]

i wont be able to upgrade till like 2-3 years from now

[hollow swift]

mmh

[ivory scroll]

but UE4 is still there 🤷‍♂️

[fresh fog]

I'm running UE5 fine on my RX 580 which is comparable, but it's had to go back to UE4 mode to do so. Not that it affects my personal usecase, I already know how the new features work, and they don't apply to me.

[hollow swift]

okay well i cant get a job this summer so next year i will try to get a job

okay ill just use ue4

dam

now i gotta look for a job what a hassle

[fresh fog]

No point, you can get UE5 to run just like UE4 and still benefit from some stuff

Again, you just don't get access to some of the shinies

[hollow swift]

mmh okay

thanks for the advice

i will download ue4

[fresh fog]

Why though?

[hollow swift]

oh

[ivory scroll]

yeah Cuppa has a point, you can "tune down" UE5 to behave almost like UE4

I mean it's the same engine just different clothes and more features

[hollow swift]

oh

oh okay

ill do that instead

[fresh fog]

check the top pin of #ue4-general

[ivory scroll]

Laura has an article about that somewhere :D

[fresh fog]

jinx!

[ivory scroll]

haha yes that one 😄

good timing

jinx for sure

[mighty cosmos]

damn, wish it was only $1900 here lol
Paid 2400euro for it here

[fallen oasis]

Ouch!

I guess you get hit with import tax?

[median marsh]

idk how they don't drop in price

at this point nvidia should be able to fullfil the demand and to sell them at MSRP

or even below it, since it's on the market for quite a while now

[fresh fog]

nvidia should stop gouging people on graphics cards, especially with insultingly low amounts of vram

oh wait, they did it again

[fallen oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-one-more-time-britney-spears-gif-1874225940573415150

[median marsh]

it's just not worth the money for most devs if you get a 4060 with 16GB for 1/4 of the price

[barren goblet]

Because gouging is how they make money

Why drop it when you can create a “shortage” and drive the price up

[plush turret]

the 12gb 3060 runs great on my system and i havent really run into any issues aside from it taking a little longer

[wind egret]

nvidia is selling database gpus hand over foot. at this point they make gaming gpus just to keep amd from being successful

[plush turret]

lol

[mighty cosmos]

Yeah it's a lot more expensive because of different taxes we have here

[fallen oasis]

Smuggle the 4090 across the border! 😄

[median marsh]

in your butt

[devout pendant]

so avx512 provides a boost to PS3 emulation

for some reason AMD lacks AVX512 on Zen 3

[grave sundial]

Yeah, that Tesla K80 is pretty cheap, isn't it? I was almost tempted to purchase it, but did my due diligence to find out it was more for servers than it was for gaming. 😄 Turns out CUDA 12 won't support it. People who have used it for taining LLMs say it's pretty good.

[kindred saddle]

Bro can you tell me your whole pc specifications please

[fresh fog]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[orchid iron]

I'm currently running an nvidia 960m in a laptop with 16gb of ram, a really old i7 Intel CPU and a hard drive as the storage, and I'm learning UE 5, so first I'd reccomend actually getting the engine, looking at tutorials online and trial and error your way to know how it works for about a year, and then you can complain about your hardware

Also, to all who reccomend greedia GPU, I'm gonna drop a based take:
Unless ray tracing is involved, amd is budget king mic drop

[forest meteor]

Does somebody know what this is?

[orchid iron]

Windows being windows, or your boot drive corrupting windows beyond repair

[orchid iron]

Are you on laptop or desktop?

And most importantly, are you using windows 11? Or 10?

[forest meteor]

Desktop Windows 10

i saw something on youtube

a tutorial

something in the cmd

i'll try it but im scared it wont work😆

[orchid iron]

okay, that's good, you have many different options to recover your data

do you have another pc nearby you could use along with some usb sticks to flash some stuff into

and do you have an extra storage drive? Just in case

had you been on windows 11 and its bitlocker on by default, your data would of been non recoverable

[forest meteor]

should i upgrade do windows 11

is there a big difference

[orchid iron]

if you want to avoid doing command line stuff, you could:

-> flash the windows recovery tool on a usb stick, like it says in the message

->You could swap your bootable drive with another empty drive, then do a fresh install of windows on it, then open your older drive with it and recover your data

->You could use a usb stick to install a linux distribution and edit partitions to install it on your drive without deleting your data, then use it to move your data to another storage

[orchid iron]

yes, there is a big difference, you'll never (or very unlikely) be able to recover your data with windows 11 and bit locker on

But when this happens you can recover it xD

(although with windows 11, as long as your make sure bit locker isn't on, you could recover it the same way as windows 10)

[barren goblet]

That’s kinda the idea of bitlocker XD if you don’t have the key

I like windows 11 just for the access it gives to windows subsystem for Linux. It’s amazing

[orchid iron]

Linux would be like that too...If windows wasn't so closed sourced

[barren goblet]

They are different system

I love Linux but Linux doesn’t do it all

bitlocker is an optional feature that isn’t even available to you unless you have a pro license

[orchid iron]

are you sure it isn't on by default like most people I've seen online say

[orchid iron]

out of curiousity, what doesn't it do?

[barren goblet]

No it’s a windows pro feature only

[barren goblet]

Gaming. Programming (windows is still better for this)

Linux can do some of these things but windows is still the staple for end users for a reason

[barren goblet]

It’s possible you might be thinking of the “new” TPM stuff they added?

Again I love Linux. But there is a reason my main desktop is windows and I have Linux servers haha

[plush turret]

linux > windows for servers
Linux < windows for end user experience

[orchid iron]

you are correct (idk about programming since I haven't tried many IDEs) but it isn't like it can't do them, more like it doesn't do them as effectively

[barren goblet]

Yes that’s my point you can do some gaming and programming on it

But it’s generally not as good as windows

It’s usually more involved, and works ok

[plush turret]

plus aside from servers and base android OS the number of linux end users vs windows is pretty one sided

[orchid iron]

coming from a time where it was considered either really bad or impossible, i'd say it is a big improvement xD

[plush turret]

look at the steam stats

[orchid iron]

always was

[barren goblet]

Oh absolutely they improving constantly

But I doubt it will ever be enough to make windows users swap

It’s just different end goals in mind

Take gaming for example

Game companies won’t make games for Linux unless a large user base will play them

A large user base won’t use Linux unless the games they play are in Linux

[orchid iron]

each time there was a new windows version that had heavy hardware requirements, there would always be a small percentage of user going to Linux

[barren goblet]

windows has and always will be bloated

No arguing that

[orchid iron]

that's where steam breaks the cycle out of nowhere xD

anyways, can your windows knowledge help the man who can't access his data currently?

[barren goblet]

I can certainly give it a go. I feel for that that sucks and isn’t easy to navigate

@forest meteor apologies for the ping, best course if your computer won’t recover would be to pull the drive and use a cable to read the drive contents they are pretty cheap on Amazon

You can get a USB one so all you need is another computer

[devout pendant]

What is this? Unplugged the USB controller and this reduced the stuttering in Red Faction Guerrilha

[hallow rune]

I can use a sata ssd right for unreal? I'm looking for 2tb drive and they are cheaper

[timber cobalt]

you can. m2 is faster, but sata ssd is better than a hdd

I remember when I wanted to buy a sata ssd, just for storing data, it was more expensive than a m2 one, so I bought m2 in the end :D

[median marsh]

if you have a spare pci express x4 slot you can also use an adapter card to get an good M2

smth like this

they don't cost much since all they do is route the port to a pci ex connector

[timber cobalt]

Yup, I have an extra m2 drive with a card like that. Works perfectly.

[orchid iron]

Anyone know where AMD, Nvidia and Intel put their software to implement in unreal engine 5 projects for their hardware?
Like frame generation and upscaling stuff

[opaque pond]

I think amd's is on github and Nvidias a plugin and idk where intel's at

[plush turret]

inside

[cursive sluice]

Is this a good place to ask for help when it comes to computer drivers?

welp am either gonna fry my pc or I won't YOLO

[fallen oasis]

I recommend olive oil and a sprig of parsley.

[cursive sluice]

Idk why it installs 'starfield' stuff uwu

[fresh fog]

The same reason it installed ac mirage stuff. It's not been unheard of for other software to include game specific patches

I forget which version of windows introduced it, but it had some special code for making Lego Island work

[orchid iron]

I mean, it is the most innovative game, so it makes sense that it was so innovative that its code is now being used in many everyday life products

[orchid iron]

If a CPU has 16 + 4 pcie 5 lanes

And the motherboard has 2 different 16 lane pcie 5 directly connected to the cpu

And 2 different GPU pcie gen 4 that are 16 lanes are inserted in those 2 slots which are both connected to the CPU

After the pcie lanes of the CPU get split into two 8 lanes gen 5 to connect to both cards, can they become 16 gen 4 lanes to have maximum bandwidth with both cards? Or do they just downgrad to two different 8 lanes gen 4?

[median marsh]

no they can't

but most cards are fine with the bandwidth of 8 gen4 lanes

also be aware that a lot of mainboards don't really have cpu lanes on the 2nd x16 slot

often they route through the chipset (and in that case they often only have 4 lanes in total)

https://www.igorslab.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/TPU-Charts.jpg

so for a 4090 you loose like 2% performance when going from x16 to x8

[orchid iron]

That's good to know, thanks

[full flare]

Can I get peoples opinion this was the build I was thinking of going with to run unreal. I already got the motherboard and the graphics card I’m still on the fence. I haven’t built a pc in 10+ years and will be the second one I’ve ever built. Any suggestions would be awesome.. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6H8YxH

[orchid iron]

It is very unlikely you'd need 2 Samsung nvme that fast that can store 2 T, you could even go for a bit older Samsung nvme also of 2T and you wouldn't really notice the difference of speed, but you'll notice the wallet difference

You could save a bit by going for a cheaper Samsung pro 2T and go for a harddrive for much larger storage at same price

Also, the AIO is really expensive, any reason why you'd want this one specifically? Because you could get one probably in the 130-160$ for same performance

Oh VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION: Intel CPUs are known to have default motherboard profiles to be far to extreme for them, resulting in the same symptoms as a bad over clock: system instability, extreme temperatures and faster CPU degradation

So you will have to go in the BIOS, change the profile, and make sure the Max watts, voltage and amps don't exceed a specific limit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3StcUhVRWQ

@full flare everything else in the list seemed okay, but make sure to watch this video

Explains potential issues you might have with your motherboard, even if it isn't from ASUS

Oh, and since you are hopefully tuning down the CPU to a reasonable degree, you won't need expensive cooling as much

[orchid iron]

Wait, if you are still kinda new to building computers, are you sure you'd want an AIO? I recommend at least reading the user manual of the AIO you'd want to purchase before purchasing it, up to you if the complexity is worth the slight performance increase compared to traditional air coolers

[frank glade]

Its really not that big a difference in mounting, just have to make sure there is space in your case

[orchid iron]

Have you read an AIO user manual before?

[orchid iron]

Wait, you forgot the GPU, unreal engine editor can't run without a dedicated Graphics card, I tried it

[frank glade]

?? I mean since I installed a couple I guess yea

[fresh fog]

They said they have it already

I guess it could mean they were still on the fence about it too

Hard to know

[orchid iron]

I asked if you read a user manual not if you installed AIOs before, but okay

@full flare which motherboard and GPU if you don't mind me asking? Have you checked if the CPU you got is compatible with the motherboard?

[fresh fog]

The motherboard is in the pcpp list

[barren goblet]

ah another corsair fan 😄

had that AIO in my last one

[fresh fog]

Quite literally :P

[barren goblet]

😛

also those are nice samsung nvme. Say what you will but nvme have noticeable speed diffs 4TB is 4TB haha

[frank glade]

Of course I have duh

[barren goblet]

who reads the manual XD

just wing it xD

[frank glade]

How do you imagine I installed them

[fresh fog]

The screws go in the middle of the big wavy brick :P

[barren goblet]

See exactly what could possibly go wrong

[barren goblet]

TBH looks like a solid build

Also forget the bios thing

[fresh fog]

Seriously though, if you don't read manuals or watch videos and end up puncturing the rad, you didn't deserve a rad in the first place :P

[barren goblet]

You can undervolt if you really care but you won’t have an issue cooling that CPU

[fresh fog]

Pfft all the cool kids are using UEFI anyway

[barren goblet]

😂

I turned on XMP for my build and promptly hit that exit button

[fresh fog]

Hey, you probably set a boot drive too!

[barren goblet]

ok fiiiiinnnneeee yes

and maybe tweaked my ram to go higher

BUT THATS IT

[fresh fog]

See, you can't trust those BIOS folk. UEFI people wouldn't lie about these things

[barren goblet]

xD

[orchid iron]

I've seen people build their PC without reading manuals but they got their knowledge from questionable YouTube videos, their hardware didn't last past a year

[frank glade]

ok

[barren goblet]

I Don’t Know it’s pretty hard to mess up an AIO mount

Unless you drilling the screws through your radiator as was mentioned 😂

[orchid iron]

Rad at the bottom, pump died after 9 months

[barren goblet]

Seems like an unfortunate fluke

Though radiator at the bottom is an interesting choice

[frank glade]

All youtube videos mention this 😅

[orchid iron]

Idk where he found his videos at

[frank glade]

idk its pretty fool proof. You have to read them anyway to figure out what brackets to use

[orchid iron]

Said every engineers before launching their products in the world

[barren goblet]

Are we really over complicating an AIO install 😂 it’s the same process as air cooled

Just extra screws for the rad

[frank glade]

Its even a little easier since you mount the fans before

[barren goblet]

mhm

[frank glade]

Some come with fans already installed

Pretty much a non issue

[orchid iron]

Then what about maintenance? What's the difference?

[barren goblet]

heh?

[frank glade]

Compressed air just as with any fans

[barren goblet]

air coolers last longer if thats what you mean

[orchid iron]

Maintenance between AIO and Air coolers

[barren goblet]

same process

[frank glade]

By the time the cooling liquid evaporates your pc will be antique

[barren goblet]

compressed air to keep your fans clean

[frank glade]

Arctic or ek do 5-6 years warranty

[orchid iron]

Without maintaining the liquid clean?

[frank glade]

Of course

You dont touch it

Its set and forget

[barren goblet]

that reminds me I should probably thermal paste my cpu again

[frank glade]

Some have plugged holes they mention not to open or voided warranty

I think a brand does have a refill kit

[barren goblet]

TBH at thought point your looking at replacing the AIO

[frank glade]

Msybe it was besilent

[barren goblet]

unless you have custom water loops

[frank glade]

Yes but they last a looong while

[barren goblet]

oh they do

kinda my point

its not an issue

[frank glade]

Yup. You'll sell your pc long before that

[orchid iron]

I see, there was a few years ago, a problem with AIO liquid and it was making them fill the contact point next to CPU with junk that grew in

[frank glade]

Depends on the brand, arctic had this issue and they offered a diy fix, and yeah, you had to dissassemble the pump unit a bit

[barren goblet]

that very much sounds like a "yeah but this one time...." argument

[orchid iron]

NGL, thought this was a feature

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/sQPNJhZUH5U

Since we went very off topic, might as well share some funny shorts xD

[cursive sluice]

How can I update Nvidia drivers?

https://www.nvidia.com/en-in/drivers/nvidia-update/ this page's useless

[full flare]

Thank you I’ll check out that video

[full flare]

Motherboard is z790 nova already bought it. And the gpu is not on the list because I haven’t decided what one I’m going with it will be nvidia more then likely a 4080 or 90

Thank you to who all put in there 2 cents

[orchid iron]

you could get a 4080 Super which is better than the 4080, and isn't as ridiculously as the 4090

[frigid heath]

ive seen a few of these sort of vids that are 100% untrue and might even kill you

so im not gunna assume thats what happens 😛

[orchid iron]

no, that was my own assumption, I didn't see a video about it

[frigid heath]

well it is a heatspreadder so depending on the temp of that thing could be true

[barren goblet]

grab geforce experienc much easier

[barren goblet]

join the 4090 cult

[grave sundial]

Too expensive to be worth it at the moment. 😄

[orchid iron]

just wait for the 5090, it will be like 50% faster than 4090

[grave sundial]

And the 4090 will be 50% cheaper as a result. 💰

[median marsh]

you wish

3090 and 4090 are still exactly same priced here

[grave sundial]

we get the 3090 about 30-55% cheaper here, depending on who you buy it from (legally).

I assume if you find the right warehouse manager and 'donate' the appropriate amount, you could probably grab one for peanuts.

[median marsh]

nah

also that still pays nvidia that price and sends the wrong signal

[grave sundial]

I found a couple here, which I thought suspicious and stayed away from. One of the customers on the site did say he made a valid purchase from there, though. He got his card super cheap.

I can't speak to how reliable that card's been for the guy.

I imagine if India cut down its import duties, the cards will be even cheaper legally.

[barren goblet]

Oh it’s way overkill but it’s fun XD

[barren goblet]

Yeah except you won’t be able to get one because Nvidia never learns 😂

[grave sundial]

do tell me more.

[barren goblet]

It’s pretty nice being able to jump into any game or application and not wonder “can my card handle this”

optimized or not cause ya game optimization doesn’t exist in AAA 😂

[grave sundial]

Did you generate 500 AI images per second with it?

[barren goblet]

Nah XD I haven’t gone the whole My own AI

It’s an amazing card but yeah it’s overpriced

[grave sundial]

Give me one for free.

I'll let you have the RTX 5000.

[orchid iron]

That's the whole point, make the 5090 the best ever, then make it rare, so you can make it twice as expensive

Join the 5090 cult 😀

[median marsh]

hope they make a 5080 with 24GB

to make all those 3090/4090 at dealers worthless xD

[orchid iron]

Yeah, at that price, the VRAM shouldn't be an issue, but it is because greedvidia

Legit if AMD didn't put so much VRAM in their GPUs, we'd think it would be very hard to put VRAM memory chips in GPUs

[barren goblet]

That’s always been Nvidia

Like it or hate it you pay for it because it’s Nvidia and not AMD

the moment you start bringing “price to performance” into question Nvidia loses every time

hence the question is “do I care about what it costs and do I want the best card on the market” best in this being pure benchmarks and not best for your use case

[mighty cosmos]

Well if AMD had anything to compete with high end nvidia cards it would be different, but the fact is that AMD has absolutely nothing that competes with the 4090 so amd wasn't an option for me

[barren goblet]

Yep that was one of the factors that had me choose the 4090 as well

[mighty cosmos]

On top of that for me the lack of cuda and anything comparable to cuda on amd is a big deal
Because pretty much all ML frameworks work best with cuda since amd is so far behind in that aspect

[barren goblet]

Yeah absolutely

[ripe shoal]

Guys Newbie question, I wanna build a basic PC to run and render unreal mostly for film not gaming ,can this Microcenter CPU mother board combo work ? of course I will get a better video card and atleast 64gigs of ram or more, My question here is on whether the CPU and Motherboard are good for my purpose https://www.microcenter.com/product/5006712/amd-ryzen-9-7900x,-asus-b650e-f-rog-strix-gaming-wifi,-gskill-flare-x5-series-32gb-ddr5-6000-kit,-amd-radeon-rs-7900-xt,-computer-build-bundle
Micro Center

[orchid iron]

https://tenor.com/view/aww-thats-hot-looking-telescope-will-smith-gif-14760309

[plush turret]

anything wrong with this SSD? looking to upgrade to 4TB
https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Plus-PCIe-NAND-5000MB/dp/B0B25M8FXX/

[frank glade]

Only drawback it's qlc and has less endurance than others

[plush turret]

ah

https://www.memory4less.com/samsung-ssd-mzvlw512hmjp-000h7
this is my current C drive

its nice

but its small

[silver geyser]

Hello there!

Please I would like to ask for advice regarding my rig upgrade...

Actually I'm using this:

i7 8700K
32 GB DDR4 3200
GTX 1070 Ti
1 TB SSD M.2

I know it's an aging rig and I want to upgrade this by the end of the year. Regarding the CPU I have two options in the same price range

Ryzen 7 7800X3D or Core i7 14700K

I'm really not sure which one I should pick...

I'm also not sure if the DDR5 performance is worth its value...

[mighty cosmos]

New amd cpus are coming within a few weeks

[silver geyser]

It seems they have not announced any new 3D Cache model in this new line up, right?

[mighty cosmos]

There are rumors they are gonna be towards the end of the year, not sure if anything was said officially

But yeah I would wait for new ones to drop in the next few weeks, see how they perform before deciding what to get

[silver geyser]

I will have to wait for the cash anyway, I will keep an eye on these new releases too, thank you

[devout pendant]

Help

[cursive sluice]

it could be the drivers. That happened to my laptop long time ago, had to update them.

[devout pendant]

If recover the laptop does it update the drivers

[full flare]

That’s the plan is to get the 4090 or a 50s card. I’m just getting everything else first as I get the extra money

[barren goblet]

very nice 😄

yeah 50s will likely not be available for a while if the same thing happens....again XD

[full flare]

@barren goblet yea I already thought it might be worth buying a cheap card to hold me over till they release them give the first card I buy to a relative that’s been wanting to upgrade

[barren goblet]

Certainly yeah

[full flare]

They help me a lot so I figured the deserved the free upgrade if I go that route

[barren goblet]

nice!

[full flare]

So if a 990 pro ssd is over kill as a second drive what drive should I go with for all my unreal save data such as models, textures and animations and just trying to keep all as smooth running as possible

[barren goblet]

My opinion it’s not

I’m running 4 980 m.2

[full flare]

Someone else mentioned it was over kill

[barren goblet]

Yeah I know 😂

[full flare]

I was gonna start off getting two 2tb ones

[barren goblet]

If your going for just storage sure get a hard drive

[full flare]

Then get more as needed

[barren goblet]

But like I said I have 4 m.2 so I can have my operating system on one, projects on another, and engine on another

And still get the speed I want

[full flare]

Should I do the operating system and engine installs on different drives

I haven’t built a pc in 12+ years or so

[barren goblet]

I personally do since I run source builds. So it’s nice to keep them separated for organization and it allows me a dedicated drive for unreal engine stuff

And a dedicated drive for like web browsers visual studio, rider , ext

[full flare]

So you run unreal and all it’s saves on one drive and it’s dedicated to unreal

[barren goblet]

yep

you dont have to do it that way

but I like having 2TB solely dedicated to all unreal things

[full flare]

Operating system on one then other apps on a third?

[barren goblet]

Yeah I have my main drive be operating system and programs (web browers and stuff), Second drive is for games, third drive is unreal engine, fourth drive right now im using for my personal project thats under source control

just how I chose to organize it

so I guess technically I have 4tb dedicated to unreal

[full flare]

Yea for sure I like that

I’m gonna copy it haha

[barren goblet]

feel free haha 😄

[full flare]

Did you see the ram I chose in that build and do you have an opinion on it

Trying to learn as much as possible haha

[barren goblet]

Yeah thats great ram

[full flare]

And will the 14700k be legit or will it bottle neck my video card

[barren goblet]

G.skill has been pretty solid in my experience

[full flare]

I was just avoiding the 14900k with its issues it’s been having even know it’s said to be due to over volted motherboards

[barren goblet]

tbh the 14th gen isnt much of an imrpovment over 13th

I have a 13900k atm

[full flare]

You haven’t had any stability issues

[barren goblet]

these are the two things you really wanna look at

the 6800 (ram speed) and CL34 which is how long it takes to make a cycle

[barren goblet]

nope none

[full flare]

Yea I was trying to get the best ram speed that I seen other people claim that motherboard could handle

[barren goblet]

mines running 6400 right now but im also using 4 sticks

so I have to limit how fast it goes XD

could probably push it higher but meh i dont wanan

[full flare]

I don’t know if that’s out the box or if I’d have to mess with settings for it

[barren goblet]

you would have to turn on XMP

its like 4800 out of the box

6200-6400 with xmp on

[full flare]

Yea I remember hearing that now that you mention it

I’ll rewatch some vids right before I build it

[barren goblet]

yeah most bios make it pretty easy now a days

most of the time its just a toggle switch

with XMP mine went to 6200, and I just adjusted it in bios to be 6400

which still isnt bad to do

[full flare]

So the cl34 is good on the ram

[barren goblet]

yes lower is better for that number

but cl32-34 is about what it is most of the time

[full flare]

Okay thank you that’s good to know

I appreciate you and the info

Thanks

[barren goblet]

of course 😄

[full flare]

You can watch a thousand videos but it’s so much better when you can actually ask questions

[barren goblet]

yeah and videos can get fun because every has their own style and way of doing things

not really wrong jsut different ways to think about it

like the argument between how you should put thermal paste on your CPU xD

[full flare]

Yea everything I do I watch hella vids on.

Yea I seen that

With the thermo paste

[barren goblet]

mhm or do yo ubuild all the components on the mother board then insert everything into the case...or do you insert motherboard first and then start installing components XD

[full flare]

The couple times I’ve done it I put the mother board in first

[barren goblet]

I do that too because sometimes you have pins on the back

that you can potentially bend

[full flare]

Basically when I built it then when I tore it down because I wanted to clean it and upgrade the case

I’m excited to build a new one it’s gonna be such an upgrade I’m running such a old pc to run unreal lol

[barren goblet]

I hear ya thats how my current system is for me. Was a massive upgrade from my last one

[full flare]

Can basically only prototype and do code. Can’t build any type of level or start adding complex stuff to the scene

[barren goblet]

ah yeah unreal is hungry haha

[full flare]

Thanks again have a good day

[barren goblet]

of course 😄 you as well!

[mellow galleon]

got a laptop with ssd + hdd (ex-primary drive moved to optibay) and win10
is there a way to prevent windows 10 constantly shutting down secondary drive (hdd) after some time.
the power management "shutdown drive after" set to 0/off, as it kept causing bsod with my primary kingston ssd drive after short after locking screen
(SMART was registering it as "power lost events" counter)

[median marsh]

maybe that stuff happens on BIOS rather than OS level?

[violet spade]

Throw the laptop in the trash take your laptop to an eco station and get a real computer, that should fix your problem 🙂

[cursive sluice]

Hiii; heppp.
I am getting crashes due to 3d3 device being lost which as far as I can find: -means the GPU was not able to sustain clock speeds under heavy load-
My laptop didn't use to have this issue; and when it crashes the display usually also goes all bugy, screen goes black for a second and then when it recovers UE crashes; while it's crashing audio in the computer continues to play with no issues (music) only the display goes black before going back to normal.
Anyone knows what could cause my GPU to no longer be able to perform as good? Imma open up my laptop and try and spot any bad stuff but I want to know what I should be trying to look for. For example I was considering perhaps the fans are no longer good and thus it may be overheating; but I don't even know if that's something that'd be relevant in full honesty.

TLDR: Anyone knows what things could cause my GPU to -not able to sustain clock speeds under heavy load- as it used to?

[plush turret]

what gpu is it first off

[cursive sluice]

RTX 3050

[median marsh]

heat

it needs more milkshakes

[plush turret]

submerge it in water while you use it
should cool it down

[fallen oasis]

Clean the fans. On everything.

[median marsh]

and read how to do it first

don't just clean them however you feel like

[cursive sluice]

Tanks evewyone

[fallen oasis]

Just jam a screwdriver in there to scoopt the dust out. Works every time! 😂

[median marsh]

also if you live in an area where it's getting summer now, it's just what it is

few degrees in increase of environment temperature can have a large impact on the actual components

[cursive sluice]

the weirdest part is that it's winter here, vewy cold, colder than it's ever been since I've owned my laptop tbh. Though it's probably the fans just running out their time if that's the issue. Pretty much with every laptop I own that happens eventually.

[mellow galleon]

carrying pc while travelling is a bit of a problem.

[mellow galleon]

searched there already, nothing power related, it did not happen when laptop had win7. but with win10 drive stops after ~20min without access, so i blame the os

for now made a cron scirpt that touches a file every 20 minutes to force drive stay awake. a bit crude but works.

[violet spade]

Self promotion is not allowed #rules

[queen kernel]

Onijere

[fresh fog]

Why would that even be applicable to #hardware lol

[violet spade]

The game was made on hardware obviously 😁

[violet spade]

I recently got a new desk so now I finally have enough room for 2 monitors. So much easier to do live debugging 🥲

[grave sundial]

Congratulations. How big are the monitors and what's their resolution?

[plush turret]

nice

tbh 3 is the most you really want

i rarely use montior # 4

[fallen oasis]

You gotta go full swordfish

How else will you hack?!

[plush turret]

i only use 4 for cheat clients

[timber cobalt]

My hero is Terry Pratchett:

“Terry Pratchett was once asked why he had SIX monitors — because there wasn’t room for eight.”

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/c1/90/d1c190a522b4c547370d29c2b3a8692d.jpg

[fallen oasis]

He just didn't try hard enough. 🙂

[orchid iron]

only the sky is the limit

[agile lodge]

wall of screens

[forest jay]

So I’m trying to use my razer 2019 as a jump box to wake on lan my main rig and that is it. Is there a way to dramatically under clock my razer so it doesn’t exceed a specific temp so I can keep it on all the time just for this use case ?

[dusk imp]

Hey guys, I'm looking to upgrade my PC since the Unreal Editor + Rider eat up all my CPU and RAM.
Im currently running on 3600MHz RAM, does Unreal profit from faster RAM than that?
Also: Does the Editor profit from many cores or is single core performance more important?

[fallen oasis]

More cores is good up to a point.

Beyond that point, it's only useful for shader + cpp compilation.

[orchid iron]

if you are getting capped by ram usage, consider downloading more ram

also, it depends what tasks do you do on a daily basis?
Is coding something you'd do 12 minutes a day, and then you do artist stuff like 3D modeling for 3 hours, then the thought process would be completely different

[dusk imp]

No, it's more like I'm coding 12 hours a day. And most of my gameplay logic is C++ only, so I'm closing, compiling, opening the editor quite often.
I have 32gigs of RAM, but each Rider and Unreal love to take about 10GB each. I thought about upgrading to 64gigs, but then I wondered if it makes sense to upgrade the speed of the RAM as well.
But then I need to upgrade CPU & Mainboard as well.
Maybe if anyone has upgraded their RAM already, can tell me about the performance boost (if any) they experienced.

[violet spade]

Faster is always better but if you can only afford to add an extra stick then do so. UE5.4 recommended specs are 64Gb

[dusk imp]

Holy Macaroni the Reasonable guideline for developing games with UE5.
I guess if they pair up the 3000€ CPU with 128GB** 3200Mhz** RAM I can continue to use my 3600MHz and just upgrade to 64GB.
Thanks for saving me money guys 😄

[fallen oasis]

Mostly because the that TR doesn't support ddr5.

Having slightly faster ram in no way makes up for having 64gb less ram.

But you probably don't need 128gb...

[violet spade]

Yeah I meant faster 64GB is better than slower 64GB if that didn’t come through right

[fallen oasis]

I was more talking about what Onkel said 🙂

[plush turret]

Im trying to find a decent non tank printer with scanner capability, but everything says the tanked are lower cost. pretty sure the tank ink wouldnt last nearly as long as the cartridge given my use. the HP printer i bought 7 years ago is still working on the original ink it came with

[violet spade]

24" , my main one can go up to 3840x2160 and the 2nd one is just a generic Samsung monitor, but it does the job. I have them both set to 1920x1080 rn

[stuck delta]

hi i was about start unreal engine soo i was getting a pc with 7600x and a 3060 will it a good start i am on tight budget also any recomendetion i am going with 32gb ram and 1tb of storage

[orchid iron]

looks solid, I'm running an Intel® Core™ i7-6700 with nvidia 960m and 16 gb of ram, so I can safely tell, as a beginner: what you are going for is fine for learning unreal engine and starting out

just make sure whatever storage you get isn't a hard drive like mine

[runic obsidian]

Suggestions for a 4080 super build like cpu and motherboard? I do unreal blender I draw (clip studio etc) play fps video games valorant apex and other games and I code using vs just want to hear some stuff from here because I’m stuck on what I want to get really

[orchid iron]

good old 7800x3D

[runic obsidian]

I heard it’s great

[orchid iron]

let me find a video about all cpus

one sec

feel the wait of a harddrive!

[orchid iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZ1K4KXx50

this is by how much it is great

[runic obsidian]

Alr

I’ll take a look

I might get an intel 14th or 13th for the unreal and other things

[orchid iron]

if you are, make sure to reduce performance on them

let me find another video about what happened recently to those

[orchid iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3StcUhVRWQ&pp=ygU6amF5c3R3b2NlbnRzIHRoaXMgY2FuJ3Qga2VlcCBoYXBwZW5pbmcgYXN1cyBpbnRlbCBiYXNlbGluZQ%3D%3D

this is about asus motherboard, but it may apply to other intel motherboard

make sure to go in BIOS and enable the correct intel settings as per the intel guidelines

since for several months there were reports of high instability in UE games specficially from high end 13 and 14th gen, specfifically due to overtuned bios settings

[runic obsidian]

Yea I heard about all the stuff going on

[orchid iron]

if I were you, I'd wait until 15th gen to get intel cpu

[stuck delta]

i was thinking about that having 32gb with 3060 is good like will it work togather perfect

[orchid iron]

mate the stuff I got is almost from 10 years ago, your stuff is gucci

xD

[fresh fog]

Well it depends if you want perfect or a good start. No it's not perfect, but it is a good start.

[willow field]

It's good I'm running on half on RAM same card

[fervent jolt]

what's your fear regarding "tank ink" ?

[devout pendant]

yikes

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B550M-PRO-VDH-WIFI/support

I haven't updated the bios in ages and now there is a security patch listed

[plush turret]

mainly duration i usually only go through 200 print pages in a year

so whatever i buy needs to stay working for 6-7 years

my current printer is from the XP era

its just that its scan features dont work in windows 11

[fervent jolt]

and i guess you need color, so ink over laser?

[plush turret]

dont need color

I have the old printer for that, if i really need color i can always do that

it takes up less desk space sitting in my closet

[fervent jolt]

ink printers are always such a slog to maintain compared to laser. but anyway, none of this is any reason to reject tank ink (if you do go ink)

[frank glade]

They have slim scanners nowadays which are pretty cool if you want to keep the existing one and have scanning

[fervent jolt]

yeah that too if you want to just keep printing...

though you have to wonder if a printer that old is about to die somehow anyway

[plush turret]

it probably is

I use scanning far more than anything

all those biz receipts

[fervent jolt]

anyway my et7750 is 6 years old now, i have to clean it once or twice a year to reduce the printgunk and it's annoying but it's been fine otherwise

printing a few pages per week on it

[plush turret]

i do maybe 5-10 a month

sometimes i get a big print job getting manuals for my dad when he buys something new and theres no printed manual

[fervent jolt]

one time so far my print heads dried up on me and that sucked to figure out how to kindly void my already probably expired warranty to take apart and clean, but that's not a tank issue

[covert goblet]

Im building a pc for game development in unreal engine, till now i used gtx 1650 with i7 9750H in a laptop. Im confused in which cpu should i buy and more importantly what should i go for more cores or more clock speed? im confused between Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X with rtx 3060, motherboard is MSI B650 and 32gb ddr5 RAM. My budget is around 1000$ a lil over the budget is fine too

im not sure about which gpu should i get soo any suggestions are appreciated

[fallen oasis]

VRAM is king

3060 12gb probably a good choice

[orchid iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZ1K4KXx50

[covert goblet]

i was thinking about 3090 but way out of my budget💀 and i dont think i need that much vram, for cpu i think i will go for ryzen 7 7700X it got better clock speed and more cores too

[covert goblet]

this confuses me more 😵‍💫

[fallen oasis]

For game dev you definitely do.

[orchid iron]

look at avreage graph, and find some within your budget

[orchid iron]

you could go for an amd 7600 XT gpu

[covert goblet]

ive only used nvida my entire life....and i need that dlss

[covert goblet]

ye yea

[mighty patrol]

Perfect time to adopt battlemage then

[orchid iron]

the more you buy the more you save

https://tenor.com/view/nvidia-jensen-huang-the-more-you-buy-the-more-you-save-keynote-2018-gif-12315008507302833354

[agile lodge]

"more you buy more you save"

[orchid iron]

Agreed, their software is looking pretty good
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IWCWsF9Ymmw

[simple galleon]

An idea for a good handheld console (Steamdeck, Asus ...) that can run games developed under unreal 5.4 with lumen and nanite?
Our game run at 30fps on Nvidia RTX2050.

[violet spade]

that's pretty bad

[simple galleon]

what?

[plush turret]

agreed it should be at like 60fps

[simple galleon]

yeah it's not the question... but thanks for your point of view, greatly appreciated

[median marsh]

xD

how are you guys suggesting them an FPS target without knowing the game

[plush turret]

how can i nuke a folder thats currently in use by another program?

[fallen oasis]

Reboot is a sure way

Unless the system is hanging on to it (a boot time)

[violet spade]

Why does that matter? Objectively speaking, if a 2050 can only run the game at 30fps, trying to put it on a handheld is likely going to be problematic no?

[median marsh]

depends™️

he didn't say at which resolution/settings

[violet spade]

I suppose that’s fair. Maybe they’ll optimize the game for the handheld better 🤷‍♂️

Dunno about nanite and lumen tho lol

[median marsh]

lumen runs like butt even on my 3060 😄

no matter what scene, i feel like it has a high base cost

[plush turret]

It is

Program starts at boot and wont let me delete the files its been spamming let alone the programs files so i can fix it

[fallen oasis]

boot in safe mode

Or end task or it or stop the service running.

[plush turret]

It refuses to end

[fallen oasis]

It's probably being restarted.

Is it a service?

[plush turret]

I think so. It was installed when i worked for a remote company and they went belly up so now its just sitting there slowly bloating itself

Theres no one to really get from the company to remove it officially and i really dont wanna factory reset the computer

But erasing files it needs should crash it right?

But windows won't let me do it

Ive seen it work to kill a few games. Disrupt the wrong file and game program crashes

[fallen oasis]

Google how to disable services.

Or remove them.

[grave sundial]

@thin elk I ordered an eGPU today. The Americans came up with one for Rs.22,000/- (including shipping and taxes), working with thunderbolt 3-4. I'll let you know how it runs. 😄

[fallen oasis]

eGPU?

[grave sundial]

external GPU.

It's an enclosure where you pop in a 3D card and plug it to your PC, laptop, etc.

[fallen oasis]

That sounds so bad.

[grave sundial]

You suffer a 10% performance drop, supposedly.

[thin elk]

hmm ive heard about those, i dug into them about 4 years ago, turned out they burn out the thunderbolt ports very easily

too much heat

i was going to buy one but didnt because of that

[grave sundial]

I'll be the guinea pig. 😄

[thin elk]

in that case good luck!

[grave sundial]

I did some research and most of the TB 3 heating complaints seem to be from MacBooks and that too, from several years ago. I'll keep an eye out for this, though. Thanks for the heads-up.

Assuming the eGPU arrives in one piece and there are no poisonous animals enclosed with the package, I'll probably order a 4060ti. Even if the eGPU doesn't work, I can keep the GPU for my new desktop build.

If it works, I save something like Rs.2,40,000/- (including GST).

[thin elk]

yeah, i did say last i saw this was 4 years ago lol

hopefully itll work

[grave sundial]

Did you check this Oculink thingamajig?

[thin elk]

i dont remember

[grave sundial]

https://egpu.io/forums/custom-egpu-chassis/osmeta-oculink-egpu-review-and-installation-guide/

It's a port that you can solder to your laptop.

And apparently, it's MUCH better than a thunderbolt for eGPUs.

Warning: Some mechanical engineering work needed. 😄

[thin elk]

no thanks lol, im good

not a fan of cutting into multi lakh equipments lol

[grave sundial]

Actually, the cutting is to be done on the laptop's plastic/aluminium cover.

But yeah, I wouldn't be able to do it without practice.

[thin elk]

im good lol

[grave sundial]

If the TB port works out, I might consider this. Very, very carefully.

[plush turret]

if its from america you dont really have to worry about hostile animals? now australia....

[fallen oasis]

What about rednecks? 😂

[plush turret]

dont think they fit in Egpu enclosures

[grave sundial]

It doesn't have an enclosure case, so a redneck could squeeze into the packaging box... with difficulty.

[plush turret]

How big is this box

[violet spade]

https://tenor.com/view/yuge-huge-donald-trump-gif-7357158

[plush turret]

could data deteriorate in a low end flashdrive thats constantly being cycled?

like movies and tv shows

[orchid iron]

data will deteriorate in anything, it just depends how fast
Which is why good ssds and hdds have features which decrease lifetime just to make sure the data is fine

[plush turret]

So that why my 10 year old 2tb hddis starting to have troubles?

[orchid iron]

are they always connected to power?

Because the durability of HDDs mainly depends on hours powered on, where as SSDs mainly depend on total write and read

10 years is already a lot for any storage drives, normally average failure rate is around a few years after warranty, and that's assuming the marketing team isn't just straight up making up numbers to sell stuff

[mellow galleon]

whats the total work time on your hdd in SMART? also what brand/quality. it all depends.
my 2tb WD black had ~61k hours until it got first reallocated/bad sector, swapped to new one (left old as a mirror)

[median marsh]

thats nonsense

most harddrives last a very long time

at least for the <4TB ones

https://i0.wp.com/www.backblaze.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/drive-survival-chart-extended.jpg?w=670&ssl=1

and they run the drives 24/7

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/how-long-do-disk-drives-last/

[fervent jolt]

.... 10 years for a HDD is enough, i don't care what you believe lol

[plush turret]

Its a seagate "backup+" external drive so no clue how to read its SMART. But it has power to it but you can hear it cycle use every time the tv turns on. Had to make padding so it wasnt so loud

[violet spade]

why is your TV using a HDD...you know what, I don't want to know 😄

[median marsh]

to record tv shows?

[median marsh]

yea at that point i would rather use it in a backup pool with redundancy

[violet spade]

I said I didn't want to know

[median marsh]

that's why i told ya

[orchid iron]

I saw the same graph, but I legit thought the bottom value would be 0%, not 50%, I hate misleading graphs that messes up the axis logic

[plush turret]

play movies ive ripped from my DVD and VHS collection

[worldly lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/vcr-glitching-adjust-the-vcr-gif-14999940

I didnt own a laser disc player either, 🤗

[plush turret]

I do but its my old xbox 360

[runic obsidian]

https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/custom-pc-builder.aspx?load=ff556751-c5ec-472b-9e33-d398e86209f6 any suggestions?

[median marsh]

pcpartpicker would be better to show it

since microcenter only allows access from US

[runic obsidian]

Alr

Hold up

[runic obsidian]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/r32Msh if you can’t go on micro centers website this is the pc park picker list it’s not the same by any means some of the things are different

[median marsh]

looks okay to me, what PSU?

[runic obsidian]

Ah I have a 850 watt 80+ gold Corsair on my current pc I have a 550 watt psu sitting around that I will use on my old pc

[median marsh]

yea 850W corsair will be fine

[plush turret]

micro center to the max

[worldly lagoon]

Right, I tried to look but I was blocked, wasn't sure if it was my settings

[worldly lagoon]

Ben already looked it over, I think you're good with the choices also, if that helps.

That NVME seems a bit overpriced though, not sure what they're selling for. Might save something there.

Might also be a saving to use 2x 2TB, instead of the 4.

[plush turret]

Its a bit high but looks like a quality unit

4tb nvme is around 270-300 for a good one on Amazon

But depends on what they want to use it for a lot of programs hate using multiple drives

Especially if you like to game and use editors or optimizers

Amazon usually has better deals on drives, cases, and MBs and micro has the better gpu, ram, psu, and fans

Unless you want a specific gpu like the 12gb 3060 i wanted

[runic obsidian]

Nah I’m saving

Two 2 terabytes cost 10 bucks more or so

[plush turret]

But micro has far better service and their staff are very knowledgeable

[runic obsidian]

Thx for helping I’ll update on the build around August( I know it’s a while but it’s the only chance I can go which sucks 😔)

[plush turret]

Yeah micro is good but theres not a lot

Im lucky the one i go too is like a 10 minute detour on my way into work

[runic obsidian]

Ah that’s cool

There’s a new one opening soon I believe

[plush turret]

Oh the teamgroup ram... i lm pretty sure that company has a bas rep. Or at least i heard it did

Corsair vengance 5200 2x 32 isonly like $20 more and i love them

[runic obsidian]

I have had good experience with them

[runic obsidian]

I love Corsair too

[plush turret]

The only corsair hardware in my rig that worked right

[runic obsidian]

Imma get off to work on some stuff for now

Gn

Or evening

Idk

[plush turret]

corsair PSU blew up

corsair fan threw a blade through the 4000D towers filter screen

yeah and im sure the PSU blowing is whats causing the GPU problems

[median marsh]

i would get samsung ram, after my 2nd g.skill fail -_-

sure they are a bit slower, but at least they should be more reliable

[mighty cosmos]

Corsair is my go to for PSUs and RAM

Never had a single fail with their products

[violet spade]

Get that Vengeance! 😀

[plush turret]

my corsair PSU blew a main capacitor within an hour of use

[mighty cosmos]

both my PCs use Corsair, and every single PC I built for anyone was using Corsair and absolutely no issues ever

[plush turret]

i also had a corsair fan throw blades and break the screen filter on my case

the batch of shitty fans i got from amazon have worked flawlessly so i guess i must have gotten a bad batch of their stuff from 2 radically different marketplaces

[grave sundial]

How did that happen?
Did a hamster decide to strike and take that word literally?

[plush turret]

No clue was just sitting there and crack

sounds of plastic flying around my case

[grave sundial]

I suspect gremlins.

Them gremlins be hidin' in them hardware, waitin' ta' strike.

[plush turret]

all the failures happened pretty early in the life

[gloomy marsh]

has anyone make a local helix core perforce server?

i wanna get that experience to put in my CV lmao

[mighty patrol]

@gloomy marsh #source-control May be the channel your looking for.

[naive cloak]

is it worth it to buy 12th gen PC with 12900K or KS?

its cheaper and also seems to be the last time Intel made decent CPU

[mighty patrol]

Intel problems, seem to get deeper and deeper with recent gens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzHcrbT5D_Y

[naive cloak]

after all the "research" that I made I understood that 13th gen (13900) was crap and 14th gen (14900) is crap on steroids... 🤷‍♂️ 🫣 I remember times when if you pay a lot for PC component you get top quality component, now we don't even have that lol
soon they will just sell LEDs instead...

[mighty patrol]

He did say 12000 series seems to be fine in his tests and comparisons.

Compares to amd

[naive cloak]

that why I asked if its ok to buy 12900 now, the question is how "old" is it for today use

[mighty patrol]

I still use a 3700x for some ue work.

Just depends what you need

[naive cloak]

my PC is too old to even upgrade, and it cant run UE4 or 5, so I wanted to check if its possible for me to buy new PC nowadays, market seems to be the worst it has ever been for consumer. overpriced, low quality parts, even Asus.

700$ CPU that is crashing lol

[mighty patrol]

Yeah asus is acting pretty shady as of late

Idk if you've referenced this site either I sometimes use it for comparisons of various systems. Obviously things vary but it's a baseline https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Unreal-Engine-Intel-Core-i9-12900KS-Performance-2317/

Has graphs who doesn't love those

[naive cloak]

I was thinking maybe I should wait for Nova Lake (if rumors are correct) buy my PC is started to act strange lately 🤷‍♂️
I will try to format it, maybe it will become stable again

[mighty patrol]

Could always check for corrupted files also if you havn't

[median marsh]

what's wrong with just getting an AMD?

[mighty patrol]

^

[naive cloak]

NEVER!

[mighty patrol]

Why

They are doing well

They have had 4 failures

[median marsh]

5950x was also my first AMD cpu, and it did hurt a bit after years of intel...

[naive cloak]

I dont trust them

[mighty patrol]

Similar to intels

[median marsh]

but i can't complain

[mighty patrol]

Compared to like 2k+ intel failures

That's just from IO

[median marsh]

what intel is currently doing with the i9 is just a disaster imho

not what the brand was used to be known for.... reliable hardware

[mighty patrol]

Their gpu looks promising

But heard not so good things about their firmware

[median marsh]

i hope they get their shit together until i have to upgrade 😄

[mighty patrol]

9950x

[naive cloak]

afaik their GPUs more suited for gaming

[mighty patrol]

Yeah

[naive cloak]

also Intel want to remove hyperthreading so idk

[median marsh]

sounds fair tbh

with the amount of cores a modern CPU has

[mighty patrol]

Plus how efficient most things are.

[naive cloak]

they will probably remove it for 3 generations and then bring it back as "new groundbreaking technology" that will make CPU cost 2x more than it should... and add "indicator" rgb led on the pcb

[naive cloak]

z790 motherboard will support 12th gen cpu?

[mighty patrol]

Should yes just make sure you check compatability with your board

[fallen oasis]

Anyone here happen to use v-ray with sketchup? A friend of a friend is looking for a laptop that'll do it...

All I can think is that a mid-range gaming laptop would do for graphic design.

(it's interior design)

[median marsh]

isn't vray an path/ray tracing renderer? so i would expect that it needs least a decent GPU

[fallen oasis]

Yeah. Which is why I thought a midrange gaming pc would do it. A 4060 or something.

[violet spade]

4060 is midrange? shit, I'm doing it all wrong

[winter quail]

4090 would do

[spare sluice]

https://help.sketchup.com/en/vray-sketchup/installing-vray-sketchup

ram caps the textures you can load, but sketchup is probably for architecture so you should be fine no need for 500 4k textures

and cpu is for render speed

also advise you friend to render in bucket and not passes

its faster

[fallen oasis]

Thanks!

[fallen oasis]

It is now, yeah.

[pearl quartz]

Oh boy, I need me some 9950X, hopefully they'll do an X3D

[wind egret]

It already has so much cache to begin with, the X3D would probably lose performance.

[pearl quartz]

I think its more to do with the shorter pathways for the stacked cache, less cache latency

[hollow mist]

all sources I found tells that X3D have more cache latency

[full flare]

Any one got an extra gpu laying around that’s decent in unreal. Got all the parts for my new pc build except the graphics card so far but with three kids it’s gonna take a while to save up for a 4080 or 4090. And might wait for the 50 series to drop. I know this is a big reach but at the same time figured someone else with some indie passion might be down to help haha. Pre thank to everyone that takes the time to read this

[violet spade]

No one has a “spare” 40 series. We all have mouths to feed

[full flare]

I didn’t say it had to be that. I’m not picky and was saying I was going to save up to buy a 40 or 50 series

[violet spade]

What gpu do you currently have ?

[full flare]

Well my old pc is like 12 years old and I think it’s like a 990 or something really bad but I just ordered the last parts I need for my new pc minus the gpu.

[violet spade]

Learning Unreal takes time, and making a game takes years. You can get something cheaper like a 2060 in the meantime, that will run it ok. By the time you need the power of a 40 series, you will have had lots of time to save up.

[naive cloak]

3060 ti 12gb will be enough for UE5? on Amazon its under 300$

[full flare]

Yea that sounds legit on the 3060. I’ve been learning unreal on and off for years and have programmed a good amount of features and built stuff in small scale messing around now I’m ready to start putting it all together and adding new things along the way

[violet spade]

Yeah that too

Just depends how low your budget is

And what kind of game you’re making

My 2060 is okay for what I’m doing

[mortal flame]

There's nothing like buying your first NVME SSD just to learn your motherboard doesn't support them

[median marsh]

which SSD and which mainboard?

[mortal flame]

I mean, it does support them. The M.2 slot just doesn't have enough PCIe lanes to get the full speeds

[median marsh]

more likely it goes through the chipset

which is the bottleneck

[mortal flame]

My PC is pretty old at this point, so it's not really that surprising. I just never knew the M.2 slot could not be good enough for an NVME SSD. Motherboard is ASUS Z97-A/USB 3.1 and the SSD is the SAMSUNG 990 PRO w/ Heatsink SSD 2TB

There was a nice Prime Day deal, so I finally got one

It's still faster than all my other drives, just not by nearly as much as I was expecting

[median marsh]

hmm, it says that it shares bandwith with the x1 slots

do you have any cards in those?

the short pci ex slots

also there seems to be a bios setting

may be set to the former, while you can probably use the later 🤷

[mortal flame]

I did set it to M.2 Mode

[median marsh]

ah, ok

your other option would be an pci express adapter card and putting it in the x16_2 slot

and running the gpu on 8 lanes

depending on the gpu there wont be a difference in gpu performance

and the adapter cards are only like $15

[mortal flame]

I do have cards in both those small slots, and to be honest I'm not using either of them so it wouldn't be an issue. I have an elgato capture card and a wifi adapter

[median marsh]

weird that it works at all then

i would think that they still occupy the pci ex lanes