career-chat

[bleak dagger]

100 players + ?

[digital gate]

It’s a balance; the fewer players, the less risk of leaks, the higher quantity/volume of feedback per player — the more players, the better you understand the segment of the market that you’re sampling

You can find them in the communities that align with your target audience- like you might be able to ask folks who play the witcher series or like potioncraft type games to try your alchemy mechanic. But not the subreddit or steam forum for that specific game (usually).

And you might need to offer “beer money” level of compensation- but can often request them to play with video and screen share

UXR can be a very involved process

Or you can just toss a download link and a google form survey

The one thing you SHOULDNT do is make the game feel satisfying to yourself and trust close contacts (family/friends) - at least not the ones who never give honest feedback

You could try stuffing the mechanics into a game jam game, but usually you’d use game jams as an excuse to rapid prototype and then you focus on the compelling gems

A lot of jams would disqualify you for reusing mechanics

[bleak dagger]

Thanks for all the input that helps a lot

[digital gate]

No problem! Learning C++ might be easier and is for sure more sustainable 😅

[digital gate]

Oh also, only worry about load testing if you’re multiplayer- and then you probably need to simulate way more, you just make fake players using a type of bot that is actually just a client, not a traditional AI controller.

[void gust]

Woah woah there, buddy. You should be testing, debugging, and playing your own game from day one. You are the first test player, IMHO, and you should just assume that everything is broken at the start (build to fail). Try out every edge case that you can imagine.

But other than that, how are you enjoying the responses on this server so far? I haven't seen any CEO's respond yet. 🤣

[bleak dagger]

As long as no one tells me he can reproduce the system that took me 5 days in 15 minutes im very open to even heavy critique, im just trying to learn what i have to do

[void gust]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Some people tell me that they can make my model in 10 minutes and I'm like, "biiiiiiiiiiitch.* Don't listen to the BS. Always get a second opinion if you're in doubt.

[grave cove]

Task duration is generally a terrible metric to compare across. Even in a professional environment you have cases where it's taking someone a week to do something you're sure you could get done in a day or two.
Maybe it's okay as a metric of "if it could take me X-time it's not as complex as the example I want to see", but it's not a reasonable way to claim the result is irrelevant.

[chilly sundial]

pfft, 10 minutes is too unrealistic. try 9:59 instead :P

[untold horizon]

@gentle gust Hey man,
Can't dm you or send friend req regard to your job post.

[gentle gust]

Hey sorry i fixed it

[urban badger]

Hey bro, I wanted to share my game idea with you. The trailer scene is like this: the main character is running through the jungle, then he reaches the mountains, and finally he jumps into the water — and at that moment the game title KALKI appears.

Can you make this kind of animation? I’ll give you full credit, and if the game makes profit in the future, I’ll also share payment with you.

[low crystal]

[uncut seal]

if you want someone to create an animation for you, you should pay them first

Can anyone give me ideas on what to create for my portfolio? Like small full games with 1, maybe more core mechanics?

Some fun little games

[void gust]

Let me guess, I'll be included in the credits and I'll get exposure?

[zenith trout]

The latest post in #salary-jobs feels fake/scam no?

"Starting minimum pay $60/hour
Qualifications
Entry level is acceptable though be warned that if you don't meet our qualifications we will spend time to teach you and pay you for teaching you so don't worry if you don't meet our criteria."

[chilly sundial]

Companies that have paid academies aren't unheard of

[low crystal]

Just a weird way of wording it though

Be warned we will teach you and pay you?

lol

[finite knoll]

"if you don't meet our qualifications that aren't listed..."

I'm sure it is a scam though

It's always a red flag when people DM you or post job listings that have had no prior engagements on this server. full_eye_socket (the OP of that listing) hasn't posted once in a public channel

[woeful iron]

Sound designer (we will be working with .wav files)
is what gets me lol

[finite knoll]

"be warned we'll train you for free" is also pretty odd

I bet the scam is that you somehow don't meet their arbitrary "qualifications" and you effectively end up working for free

Though they do say "pay you for teaching" but I'm sure there's some gotcha with it

[bleak dagger]

Lets find out 🤷

[forest spoke]

https://waterworldver14.netlify.app/

[low crystal]

What’s this

[fervent palm]

Some vidoe game

[low crystal]

Ah okay nowadays I hardly click any urls like that lol

Plus no context

[native parcel]

You could go down the old retro games route and remake some old gold classics

[uncut seal]

Like what specifically? The PS1-PS2 or Xbox 360 type games or even older?

[versed spade]

most of these scam projects will require you to download and run the game source code. It might looks like a normal game but deep inside the codebase there will be a 1 lined malware code that could potentially stole all of your information. Most of these projects are probably NFT games though and they're aiming for your digital wallet.

[native parcel]

You can either explore those games like crash bandicoot, Zelda and all that or go further back to retro games like pong, galactica, dig dug

[uncut seal]

I'd rather not make full zelda type games but neither simple games like pong, is there anything inbetween?

[native parcel]

Dig dug, galagctica, Tetris frogger, doom kinda throw ur own thing into it

[native parcel]

Trick is to reimagine the game, try talking to ChatGPT about brain storming ideas, really great if you like the feel of one game but have ideas to make it better and make it yours

Instead of 2D can try for the 3D version

[uncut seal]

Alright thank you so much, you've been great help!

[low crystal]

Think something like snes complexity

Or NES

[low crystal]

I don’t think this is the correct spot

[uncut seal]

nah I’ll probably do the ps1 stuff or something similar, I’m not like much of a beginner as well

[low crystal]

Much more complex, I think deceivingly so but whatever you feel comfortable with

Good luck 👍

[uncut seal]

Thank you!

[undone obsidian]

Hi all, wanting to get back into some unreal tutorials. Does anyone have a reccomendation on best tutorials that are close to the latest unreal updates? cheers.

[void gust]

You'd be better off asking in #ue5-general . But honestly, the old UE knowledge is still applicable today.

[steep mica]

Has any one here out of 124k members actually worked in an industry setting and how was it? And was it hard to do with or without degrees? I’m curious

[round radish]

Plenty of the active members here are industry vets.

[digital gate]

It can massively depend on the specific company you work at, even the specific time you’re working at that company. The likelihood of it feeling any particular way is somewhat influenced by the size of the company, and how its managed.

I do not have a degree, and it was difficult to get hired for my first contract (and then later my first FTE offer), but it really hasn’t come up again.

I haven’t experienced sustained deathmarches that lasted months or years, fortunately, however I think that’s only because one client I had didn’t have the budget to go all that long 🤣

[steep mica]

I am trying to figure out my way in but it’s hard due to high standards of chicken or the egg.
Experience vs work vs education

[grave cove]

Some disciplines are harder than others to do without a formal education. They're all still possible, if you know the right people. But as a faceless resume or portfolio it's gotten harder across the board.
So first it really depends on what sort of work you're interested/skilled at doing.

[low crystal]

I’m not in the industry but I hear it’s also very competitive as well 🤕

[steep mica]

I enjoy modeling but I’ve recently gotten into the technical side of uv, texturing and rigging . With that in my plate I cannot pick up animating but I would like to atleast earn some work in the mean time trying to buff up the portfolio and atleast get everything to rig and pose standard I enjoy creating worlds. Small slice of creation

[steep mica]

I just want to find work, sell things indies and whoever else needs it

[spice dagger]

@steep mica You might find it useful to take a look through our Job Board.

See what listings are around that interest you.

[rain mango]

Hi, I'm a freelancer like you and I just wanted to share a few important tips with you all.

1. If you are going to accept a project, always ask for a video call first to make sure your client is real
2. Ask the client to give you a through and detailed description of the project before accepting it.
3. Ask your clients name and social networks before accepting a project.
4. Ask for a prepaid amount from your client and do the project in multiple milestones.
5. If the client refuses to pay a milestone but ask you to continue working, stop working until he pay the milestone.
6. Scammers don't like video calls, don't like to share their name or social networks, don't give you a through description of the project. Block them if you saw someone like this.
7. If your client does not have a LinkedIn, It could be a warning. Professionals mostly have LinkedIn.

If you have a good portfolio, tracking record and someone needs you for your skills, he/she is the one that should gain your trust.

[pallid palm]

That's all great advice, but also want to add that job scams (in general in all industries) have gotten even more advanced.

I have seen scams where they pretend to be a real company on LinkedIn, and use names of recruiters at that company on LinkedIn. In those scenarios, best strategy to is to contact the company directly, as many are aware of these impersonations.

The craziest scam was a scammer that rented an office in a major city and conducted in person interviews there. I feel like scams have gotten much more advanced in the last few years.

[round radish]

Wow. That's "sell you the Eiffel Tower" level scams.

[rain flare]

Sometimes it happens that individuals interpreted some of the startup companies as scammers because of the real crooks

[low crystal]

Thank you for the advice, did you get this knowledge from a personal experience? 🤕 if so that freaking sucks

[rain mango]

You're welcome, I learned these years ago when I was freelancing. I learned some of them the hard way and I figured the rest just by getting older.

I had only one client who did not pay me, and it was around 14 years ago. But I had many who tried to fool me into starting a project without a prepaid money and they all failed. Also I had clients who asked me to countinue working on their project without paying the money for a completed milestone and I refused.

I've seen so many freelancers who don't take these seriously or don't know these therefore they lose money in the end while they have worked on a project for a long time.

[wraith mortar]

In my experience if they pay a % in advance they're probably legit, scammers don't typically part with money

[round radish]

Need to use more escrow services.

Surprised people don't do this.

[wintry jetty]

Great insights mate, how's your experience with legal side of things when it comes to freelancing if I can ask? Like how is a contract actually written and signed from both parties etc.

[rain flare]

Thanks for your advice as I'm starting up freelancing

[rain mango]

Yes, That's right.

[rain mango]

Well, In recent years I did not sign any legal agreements with the clients. They did not ask and I was OK with it since I was getting a prepaid amount and work on a milestone based system.

Some of my clients asked me to sign NDA but I refused since I don't work on projects that require NDA. Most of the NDA contracts are not actually NDA. They are slavery contracts in my opinion,

[rain mango]

You're welcome, I hope it helps.

[rain mango]

If you get a prepaid amount and work in milestones, escrow services won't be needed. I used Upwork escrow service for many years, In the end I realized I do not need it and when I need it the process is too long and complicated.

Right now I'm not using Upwork anymore.

I always recommend people to stay away from freelancing platform that ask you to pay money for bidding on projects.

most of their projects are fake.

[grave cove]

How so? An NDA should be a very specific type of contract with a very narrow scope. They shouldn’t tie you down to anything.

[rain mango]

I have seen times when clients send their own NDA which is an NDA+ a slavery contract . Since I am familiar with legal issues, I always refused to sign.

Besides projects that require NDA are not good for a freelancer's future.

You can't show them to anyone as a project you have worked on. You can't post them in your portfolio.
It's my opinion and I know some will say if the money is good, they will be OK with NDA. But I personally don't spend my time of a project I will not be allowed to post on my portfolio

[rain mango]

I remember once a client told me he is going to send me his own NDA agreement and he did. It was 16 pages!!!

[round radish]

But you ignore the issue from the other side. As much as you can research someone, you could pay them money and they do nothing.

[rain mango]

The other side is responsible for finding a freelancer with a tracking record and good portfolio too to mitigate such a risk.

[round radish]

And you're responsible for accepting clients that you fully vet, making none of this needed, right?

[rain mango]

Besides giving a prepaid amount and doing the project in multiple milestones is good for the other side too. If the freelancer wants to take the moeny and do nothing the client will lose much less. So, I'm not ignorig the other side.

[rain mango]

Yes, This risk always exist, but freelancers with a tracking record of projects and good portfolio, MOSTLY don't work like that! It would a suicide for them.

[round radish]

I'm just saying you can't hand wave buyer protection and claim you have to have seller protection - as a seller. 🙂

I agree with you about all the seller stuff you said, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying it'd be better if both sides had some.

[rain mango]

I see, I know this way is not perfect, And I think there's no perfect way for this. what do you propose instead of the way I'm currently saying? Any better alternative?

After many years of freelancing I found this way the best with the lowest risks for both sides.

[round radish]

You're right, there isn't. Somebody needs to invent a system!

[grave cove]

Both of those cases seem like the problem is all of the contract in addition to the NDA and not the NDA itself.
An NDA should be, like a page. Maybe two.
I can't speak to portfolio stuff, but it seems like that's got to be a solved problem. People move between corporate jobs where NDA's are standard operating procedure without much impact with their portfolio.
At some point you're portfolio's got to be sufficient that it's not even a good idea to put everything you've ever done into it.
I can respect if that's your line to not cross, but NDA's should not be a scary type of contract to sign. They shouldn't have any effect on further employment (non-competes which might are a whole 'nother problem).

[low crystal]

Yeah that sucks about upwork, I have to pay to even get considered for projects 😭

[zenith merlin]

Hi again everyone, so I started to apply for jobs today and just a few questions: is it ok to apply to multiple similar job positions in the same company but they are at different locations?

Also they don't have remote positions and they are not explicitly mentioning they will help you relocate, is it ok if I still apply to those?

[round radish]

If they like you enough, they will help. You can ask if you get to an interview stage.

Most companies are understanding about that sort of thing. They'll give you some help or, at least, some extra time to relocate.

[zenith merlin]

Thanks also just got a confirmation mail about my first application and they basically encourage multiple role application.

[round radish]

Perfect.

[wintry jetty]

Oh I mean yeah it sounds alright with an upfront payment and milestones, I figured that the purpose of such legal agreement is mainly to clearly define a scope of your work before proceeding to ensure you don't work anything extra outside of the scope that you agreed at the start, has that ever happened to you?

[rain mango]

Without a legal agreement you can ask you client to clearly define a scope of your work before proceeding to ensure you don't work anything extra outside of the scope. I always ask them to write it in an email. Sometimes you need to remind them and it's best to keep the email.

In international freelancing, a legal agreement does not work most of the time. You have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get your few thousand dollars back if your client or the freelancer you have hired lives in another country.

[rain mango]

You're right, The problem is not from NDA, the problem is from what clients call an NDA. For coropate jobs, you can trust them with their NDA easier, and they mostly allow you to put the project your worked on in your portfolio after they publish the project.
But in freelancing sometimes the clients want your job to be in their name and they don't give your any credit. They even tell other that they did the project themselves. I was refering to this kind of NDAs.

[versed spade]

But how can you tell what you can disclose and what you can't in a NDA. Usually when I sign NDAs, they have general terms and not quite sure that if my work is in their scope of their NDA. I would say all NDAs I have signed are all in general terms, they will not tell specifically yes you can show the game name or the work (description) you did in your portfolio.

[rain flare]

Can you suggest which platform I can use for starting

[winged dragon]

is it worth trying to be a 3d artist now ?

there are barely and jobs

and 0 looking for juniors

[low crystal]

Well it’s competitive for sure

[rain flare]

Is there no hiring in market for environment artist?

Cuz I'm looking for a job but can't find any roles

[limpid egret]

idk how can this be answered since job market varies country by country

like here in poland: for remote mid game programmer role with 2+ years of experience there were 300 applications for one slot in particular company, with monthly salary around $1700

from those numbers around 60 people received recruitment task, i know a dude with almost 10 years of experience who applied there (to keep money flow after losing job) and he got refused at later stage because other applicants were better

[outer sapphire]

can anyone guide me how to use the job board?

[chilly sundial]

#instructions has all the info 🙂

[outer sapphire]

not working

manny dosent reply

[chilly sundial]

are you dm'ing him?

[green oyster]

I took a glance a few days ago and found a few. Even naughty dog is hiring an enviro artist. Good sign for the industry I guess? Not sure about junior positions tho

[rain mango]

Sorry, I don't have enough information about it. But I can tell you do not start on platfroms that ask you to spend money for bidding on projects.

I created this video about why you should avoid freelancing websites a few months ago :
https://youtu.be/dKs41jLRvQU?si=o7BRCsEj1tb50caT

It will help you understand how they work better

[rain flare]

Alright thx

[rain flare]

yaa I guess that's the reason I'm not getting any of them at now

[rain flare]

Daam he not got at the end
That hurts

[winged dragon]

I think that I am going to try staying in the industry to like until the end of the year

and if I do not find any good paying job, I might quit and start something else

[ivory geode]

nobody hires juniors

junior positioin is basically: pls be mid

[sharp condor]

Hey I had a quick question about internships, I'm trying to fill out an internship application and it's asking about my school. I'm in France and none my schools are listed and I can't input my own school? Does anyone have an idea on how I can go about this? Thanks!

[low crystal]

How do juniors become seniors if nobody hires juniors 🫨

[round radish]

A mummy senior and a daddy senior fall in love...

[void gust]

It's false that nobody hires juniors. If that's the case then we need to shut down ALL college programs.

And if that were the case then you'd be better off putting fries in the bag, because you'd make more money that way.

[uneven zodiac]

Hey I mean the college programs still make money… they have very little incentive to stop, especially if people out of job in industry can easily transition to education in the field

[ivory geode]

In real world not magic nostalgia of what was, people fight to get intership let alone actual job in the industry, random joe smuck from university of 123 doesnt have good chances

Im sure big companies still look for top contenders from top universities

And yea there are more courses/programs than ever lol

People sell shovels when the mine got already digged

[round radish]

There's plenty of mines, but what you really needed was a pickaxe.

[void gust]

You could learn a lot of it online for free if you know what to look for and study. But if it's true that literally NO ONE will hire a junior then we should shut down the colleges. Because at that point you are scamming the students and commiting fraud. If they were honest and told the students, "you will accumulate debt learning how to make games, but you'll still be flipping burgers anyway," then there is no good reason to keep these programs alive. College is slowly becoming irrelevant, if you ask me.

[ivory geode]

Diamond pickaxe

with enchantmens

[round radish]

Indeed.

[round radish]

There are plenty of courses that don't give you credibility.

Honestly I feel some just exist to give people something to do and the colleges running them extra money from the government.

[void gust]

I agree, and it's a fucking scam.

[ivory geode]

Like the ones on udemy

[low crystal]

So people do hire juniors?? lol

[ivory geode]

yes "juniors" with experience

[hybrid coral]

Sup' I need help to decide something. I'm jobless slowly approaching to failure I think, can't find anything that requires my built (programmer generalist) so I was thinking in de-escalating my project and recruiting people myself.

Any thoughts on that? Is it a good idea?

[round radish]

If you're jobless, how do you expect to attract talent to work with you? You can't pay them.

[hybrid coral]

I've been trying to join those rev-share projects, I was thinking on doing one myself

[round radish]

Have you ever seen one succeed?

[hybrid coral]

Not really but the goal of those projects isn't to fill portfolio?

Well at least on INAT they always specify that they don't expect any profits

[round radish]

Fair enough.

Have you been able to do anything on the ones you've joined?

[hybrid coral]

Like being useful? I haven't got into one sadly, I've been on many jams tough

Probably should get into one first, right?

[round radish]

Yeah.

Jumping in head first to both show off your programming and learning project management is a lot.

[hybrid coral]

Alright, what about getting into a rev-share vs finishing a solo project?

[round radish]

It's very hard to maintain motivation for solo projects.

[wintry jetty]

especially if your scope isn't clear as crystal 😆

[hybrid coral]

I've been working non stop for a year on this one, I would say the scope is clear but last month when I was adding melee combat I had to stop many times to think what the hell I was doing

[round radish]

Then finish!

[wintry jetty]

Yeah you want to avoid these as much as possible, the amount of diversity in tasks to finish a solo project is very broad but when it comes to systems architecture if that's what you were struggling with, it is quite mandatory to design shit on paper, prototype and then implement

[round radish]

Or, at least, get it into a state where you can say, "I did this."

[hybrid coral]

Not really about systems, when I meet an issue on those, I can always tell what to do after some minutes of thinking. The problem I had was more about game design, It wasn't fun enough, at least on paper because I've been on a side mission of perfecting animations since then.

Oh. Just so you know, It's a jet dogfighting game, so there was this issue about mixing the jet gameplay elements with the melee combat. I feel I'm making things harder for myself

[wintry jetty]

Oh I see yeah, making things "fun" from a game design perspective definitelly feels harder than systems architecture, at least for me I bet experienced game designers can argue the opposite but yeah I would consult someone like that for an honest opinion haha

[wintry jetty]

Jet dogfights and melee? Sounds interesting, how does that work there? I mean, I picture you can steer a jet but where is a place for melee there?

[hybrid coral]

It's about Wizard Jet pilots, You have melee spells on air but then you meet these large ships with huge shields so you have to board them pirate style to do some kung fu on the enemy wizards

So I was planning on the combat to work like in Smash bros so the player has to kick the enemies away instead of a life bar

[wintry jetty]

Haha nice, honestly big respect for the creativity, this description by itself makes it sound like a really unique project

[hybrid coral]

Thanks but I'm really starting to think that I'm one of those guys that just add stuff without planning ahead

I'll keep on working then, thanks again

[wintry jetty]

Well yeah that isn't a good practice but definitelly not a reason to abandon a project, I think it would be very beneficial for you to dive more into game design theory as judging by your description it sounds like you know what you're doing from a technical side and if you never really struggle with systems architecture then you can create whatever you like code-wise, 3d modelling and enviro design is a separate thing but as a sole person responsible for the project you're in the driver seat for its direction and it all starts with the game design after all, understanding the concepts will surely help you navigate with what you want to achieve so I think that sounds reasonable 😁

[glacial cedar]

im was really confused with what type of textures to go with... one is more realistic while other is very flat that fits the lowpoly style im going with

i kinda wanna go with the flat one because this project is way too overdue and i also im not gonna price this low poly asset pack very high

can someone help

[chilly sundial]

Flat looks better, purely because #2 doesn't look very realistic. It's too smooth, the textures are stretched and the geometry is a bit too sharp to respond well to realism

[glacial cedar]

yeaaa

i can make the uvs better with the realistic one but the flat edges are still gonna make it look bad

thank you

[chilly sundial]

I mean a very slight bevel might help in that regars

Honestly the biggest thing with wooden props is getting things with a softer grain and some variation in it, that's your key

But I definitely think #1 fits the theme better anyway

[glacial cedar]

yeaa

i mean this is just a material preview so yea

but flat looks better plus i can get done with this project faster with that

[void gust]

Do you plan to use these cabinets with your career?

[chilly sundial]

lol i didn't even see it was in the wrong channel

[oblique ice]

i think that post can be move to work in progress 🤔

[true sigil]

2 has stretched textures. You cant use that

[loud condor]

I just did. But I will tell you, it’s just hard because the industry is so cooked rn. You put up an application for a junior position and you get 200+ apps, and so many of them are seniors who are willing to work for a lower than junior amount of pay. So it’s like, just often hard to do the right thing and hire new talent when you know there’s somebody who’s been doing the job for 20+ years (not always a reliable metric, but usually somebody doing x job for 20 years will be faster and better than somebody who’s been doing said job for 2 years and only in a uni environment). Again, not always a reliable metric, there are plenty of bad seniors and good juniors, but yeah, the general correlation

And there’s just not that many opportunities in general, for senior or junior or wherever. It’s been very frustrating on my end too, because publishers will only put up enough money to hire 1-2 people, when the actual amount of work needed to finish it is more like 5-6

[oblique ice]

maybe everyome have different hiring choice 🤔

[winged dragon]

this makes me think if I should try and stay in the gaming industry or try something else. But right now this is the closest thing to getting a job and brining me money. But if they do not hire for months. What is the point? I already got rejected by 4-5 studios

[oblique ice]

ouh that is not new, studio hire or reject

[winged dragon]

and 90% of the job posts are looking for seniors. Each of them having 300 applicants or more

im really thinking if I should quit

even if they take me somewhere, they pay is not really good at all

[limpid iris]

Hello 👋

[glacial elbow]

Yo guizz sup

[shut token]

It has been like this for quite some time now. But it is also expected that this is just the new norm in general. Regardless of tech sector. If this is really want you want to do - just have to keep pushing, network, do stuff, etc...

Or just go and make your own dang game.

[loud condor]

4-5 studios? The average person right now is facing rejections in the 3 figures from what I hear

[woeful iron]

4-5 is not a lot lol

I got rejected 16 times when looking for just an internship back in the day

and that's free labour

[vivid kernel]

Like in All departments? Art design engineering?

[loud condor]

I think engineering was ok but art and design we got way too many

[void gust]

So are artists just a dime a dozen these days?

[wraith mortar]

That would be relative to the available work
Relative to the available work, everyone is now a dime a dozen 😄

[oblique ice]

not surprise, many actually get rejected just for the internship, there is more actually, just that people didn't know
I got rejected more than accept

[void gust]

Lockheed Martin always needs interns.

It ain't game dev, though. 😆

[dapper arch]

So you write your resume's with ai, then ai checks your resume's and sends automated responses.
meaning ai's talking to ai's, nobody getting hired.

this is whats happening: https://x.com/cameronmattis/status/1970468825129717993

industry is doomed in so many ways.
good luck to the people with great talent and excitement!

[plucky hatch]

nice pfp dude

[round radish]

It really ties his profile together.

[dapper arch]

https://tenor.com/view/suhdude-gif-4907919

[oblique ice]

Hm I actually write my own resume 🤣 😂

[atomic frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/business-card-career-cover-letter-create-biodata-gif-22518735

[ivory geode]

and 4 figures in ghosting

[ivory geode]

Its interesting actually because in a big city here ive barely seen any engineering jobs

someone was looking for intern on cnc machines and thats about it

idk maybe people get engineering jobs through university directly

[void gust]

AI is notoriously bad at detecting AI generated papers of any kind. Universities have been sued for destroying student educations with these tools (and they lost). These tools will even say that some parts of the Bible are AI generated. Give me a fucking break.

[ivory echo]

JesusGPT

[ivory geode]

people dont know how it works

thats what happens then

[sacred flax]

can we prove the bible wasnt ai generated?

[ivory geode]

if bible didnt exist then ai wouldnt have reference point to write very similar text

[oblique ice]

i not sure about the topics 🤔

[simple jay]

juniors are really hard to be hired right now due the amount of lay off from big companies, the market is cold and only most experienced ones kept, so if you're in a junior position and want continue in this area, it's worth find the path of least resistance: game industry isn't only about programmers, it's has the 3d, 2d, animation, sfx, vfx, concept, design, so it's worth try in this other fields which kept s you around till the market get warm again. Particularly i've started as 3d modeler and the market drives me towards programming at 2017.. so usually follows what is hot in the market will helps you, unless you want fight for your specific area

[dusty harness]

hello every body

[winged dragon]

I worked as a 3D generalist in the last 3 years

now I need to find another job, but because I am not specialised in 1 area only, they will not take me

it's like being a junior in everything

and I feel so fucking lost that it makes me want to quit the game industry

[winged dragon]

so what am I supposed to do in this situation? Leave the industry? Because it feels pointless.

bro I feel so lost and lonely. There is nobody to talk to to help me decide what should I do

[oblique ice]

hm do you have side projects? those helpfull abit

[still oak]

Hi all, I am new here and I am looking to post a job to hire a freelancer for the animation of my teaching project, however the job segment seems locked, is this because I am new here and don't have the right to post there yet?

[chilly sundial]

Nope, you'll notice that all the posts there are via the Manny bot. #instructions tells you what you need to know about getting a post there 🙂

[vivid kernel]

I get it and know people who feel like this. If you have a job then keep it going..

[ivory geode]

yea pretty much, if you cant fund a studio

[loud condor]

I've heard that doing freelance work can have a little more luck if you have a really solid portfolio. But yeah if you can't find any jobs by appling alone and you think your application is the best it can get, but you really still wanna be working on game stuff, just work on your own projects or find no money collaborations (like game jams)

My personal story is that I worked on my own project for 5 years part time with 0 funding, and it finally just got to a point this year where now I secured a few publishers and investors who wanted to put in a little bit of money to finish it finally. So that is an example of 1 route (and it only took 5 years for me because of my scope, you could do a smaller scope game for sure to cut time for a few years)

[void gust]

Why not just get a regular job and keep looking for 3D jobs on your days off? Some money is better than no money.

[upper sparrow]

I can't really help you, other people already made some decent suggestions, but you're not alone. I've worked on car commercials for years, recently got laid off, and the only company who has shown interest in my application is another car commercial company... really seems like once you're in a box, it's hard to get out. Definitely wouldn't give up though. Who knows, maybe there will be an opening soon that's just like your previous work and you end up being the perfect fit. Best of luck ✌️

[indigo hamlet]

Any reason why my question about the freelance market/opportunities would be deleted?

[void gust]

Either we went way too off-topic or somebody started getting toxic while I was at work. Who knows. 😆 Not sure about the freelance comment, though.

[boreal dawn]

Hi there, I'm trying to add my latest experience to my portfolio website and I was wondering if anyone here could be willing to provide some feedback?

[woeful iron]

you can just post it here and someone might reply

[severe sundial]

i can give u great feedback

[wraith mortar]

I doubt that given you advocate for blockchain

[severe sundial]

i have 3 years experience in blockchain field.

can u answer my question if i ask u about blockchain?

[woeful iron]

he's not asking blockchain feedback though

[severe sundial]

i know

but Vaei asked me about blockchain

i am web developer and have team that develop web site and game

[woeful iron]

I think they're implying you're a blockchain head so you must have weird opinions so he puts your feedback capabilities in question

[severe sundial]

and if clients want , we can introduce them to super blockchain team

[severe sundial]

don't worry

[severe sundial]

i only want to help other people

[woeful iron]

so what kind of value does blockchain add to your games?

[rigid bluff]

are those games made in Unreal?

[severe sundial]

yeah

I love that because of high-end graphics quality and cross-platform

that is why developers like Unreal

[woeful iron]

wow, that's very generic

[rigid bluff]

I noticed you ignored the question about what blockchain adds to your games

[severe sundial]

blockchain can change how digital ownership, trading, and player economies work inside a game.

i am very busy and i am sorry for late response

[woeful iron]

in what way

cause much like the reason you like unreal that's the most generic response possible

[rigid bluff]

huh, I thought you wanted to help other people

[severe sundial]

yeah

i like that and i enjoy making friends

and i am human who want to be happy such as other people.

so i want moeny

[woeful iron]

are you a chatbot from 2007?

cause that's how you talk

at least the chatbot would try to answer my questions

[lucid dagger]

I worked in some blockchain game development (yay outsourcing), but honestly never saw any problem where the only solution was blockchain. And usually it made it more complicated, because we needed "blockchain experts" instead solving it conventionally.

[chilly sundial]

It's always been funny one. Web3 has been "the future" and the "solution" for about a decade, yet the only thing it's solved so far is how to ruin your customers financially.

Sure even if we ignore that cross platform and cross game trading can be done without blockchain, you still run into the issue of "why would a game want to let you use products from other games when they could sell it to you again"

[smoky beacon]

A lot of new tech ends up like that, miss-applied and hype marketed. Doesn't devalue what blockchain was really made for:

Open source technology that provides crystal clear financial tools that anybody can audit.

[woeful iron]

well it didn't even have a financial intend in the original conception

the original idea was to prevent tampering with timestamps on documents

now it was fully decentralized by the implementation for bitcoin I admit

imo it has much more use in decentralized proof of chain of ownership or authenticity than in any financial instrument

and especially in games I know about 0 useful applications

[severe sundial]

excuse me , everybody

i am sorry to interrupt but i don't agree with ur suggestion.

blockchain is mysterious skill and technology and i think that blockchain and ai tech will be owner of future

[chilly sundial]

When? It's been around for a decade and it's still done nothing revolutionary nor solved a problem in games that couldn't be solved already?

I mean steam marketplace is not decentralized, and could still allow you to own items in multiple different games, yet no one has yet. The problem's been solved, there's just no incentive to take that hit on revenue when you could sell the cosmetic again

CoD allowed bundles to be used across titles, but that's not web3

And they stopped doing it so they could resell all the cosmetics :P

[low crystal]

bro just likes to say things with 0 explanation lol

I think blockchain is mysterious skill and technology and i think that blockchain and ai tech will be owner of future because .... [post explanation/thoughts/opinions here]

[wary idol]

https://tenor.com/view/connor-gif-20977391

[lucid dagger]

I like when a skill and technology is mysterious, like magic.

Also I think that is definitely not career topic anymore

[void gust]

They don't call programmers coding wizards for nothing.

[mellow linden]

Hello Everyone. I just landed a job at Rockstar. I just wanted to thank some of the people who helped me with my personal portfolio problems. Thank you!

And all the people who post their amazing works here were one of my inspiration to learn more and grow. Once again, Thank you. ✨

Would love to connect with more people here, so. This is my LinkedIN : https://www.linkedin.com/in/sujith170
Come say hi! 👍🏼✨

[round radish]

Congrats.

[strange plinth]

Wish you the best (hopefully not crunching for GTA6 or RD3)

[void gust]

Congrats, you got the job before GTA6!!!

[ivory echo]

Thanks for making Red Dead 3

[uncut seal]

Bully 2

[twin warren]

If I create a plugin that exposes a few functions to Blueprint (the UE_VLOG macros), and sell it on Fab for $5...will that do anything for my odds of being hired for a programming role?

I would also have a docs site deployed with demo images, tutorials, examples, and all of the Blueprint nodes

[grave cove]

Maybe a little, but it's hard to say. Just as an example, if it was between you (plugin, no degree) vs rando (no plugin, BA in CS) and all other things being equal, I don't think it helps in the slightest.
If it was between you (plugin, degree) vs rando (no plugin, degree), I'm still not sure it would exactly tip the scales for a studio in the business of making games not plugins.
It would depend on the little on the scope of the plugin. The current description doesn't even really sound like something that should be sold on Fab as a plugin (no offense intended, I know there's similar and worse one's on there). Sounds more like a plugin to just release for free through github.

[twin warren]

It is definitely trivial. I'm graduating with an MS in math at the end of the year (BS in math) from Purdue ᶠᵒʳᵗ ᵂᵃʸⁿᵉ, and I've done some frontend work in React and React Native

[grave cove]

I don't think a masters in math is much help vs candidates with even a bachelor's in CS. The react experience will help.
If it's trivial, it rubs me the wrong way a little. Feels like taking advantage of Fab buyers that may not know any better. But I'm not the right market audience for plugins that make native things blueprint accessible that Epic didn't do right in the first place.
And I've got a development job that pays the bills, so I'm not under the pressure to try and put any of my plugins up on the marketplace (they're just on github) even though they'd be significantly better value than many of the plugins that are actually for sale there.

[twin warren]

I'm intrigued, what kinds of plugins?

[grave cove]

A general utilities plugin, one for save games (the file stuff, not the game data), asset management and an event system.
https://github.com/MagForceSeven/Starfire

[twin warren]

Neat! Thank you

I'm also considering maybe writing something to make functional programming easier

Maybe a set of BPFLs to use with FMemberReference, and something to make it easier to call FMemberReference functions in C++.

A part of me also wants to build something like npm, but for Unreal plugins

But I think that would probably explode in complexity

[grave cove]

Package management like that isn't really in the C++ style, which affects how even the non-C++ stuff gets treated.

[twin warren]

True

Ugh, it feels like there is no clear-cut path but getting a CS degree...even though CS is a part of math 🙁

Not shitting on CS people, just...I thought that the math degrees would open the same doors, or more

[grave cove]

It's sort of the theory vs applied. CS as a subset of math is very much the academic/theory mindset.
CS as it's own thing is the applied mindset. Maybe it'd be cool if there were some other degree like computer engineering, but that's already a thing and (in my experience) skews towards hardware which is a whole 'nother thing.
Of course it all depends on your math program and coursework.
In my case I had to already take enough math as part of the CS program that near the end it was like "if you want to take two more math classes" (with elective slots) "we'll take on a minor in math to your degree".
🤷 not that I think that's ever actually gotten me anything 🤷

[twin warren]

Reminds me of my minor in actuarial sciences. That is definitely a last resort for me; the number crunching was awful

[shut token]

I run my own small studio and a plugin like this wouldn't factor into my decision in the slightest. But that's just me.

[digital gate]

As someone who used to have a similar plugin, it wasn't ever really a dealmaker (and maybe was even a dealbreaker). However, it was my engine contributions in preperation to provide another plugin which piqued people's interest. I didn't even need to finish the plugin I was making.

Exposing functionality in a wrapper plugin is super easy, if you want to impress you'll need to solve a more serious issue (even if the wrapper plugin does provide value)

[willow hollow]

if yall need me hmu at @vaporwavecat, my main. i do quite a bit of work on unreal and im rly a master of all trades!!

[uncut tendon]

Go back to Andromeda

[uncut tendon]

Robot?

[severe sundial]

what ?

i only wish that i have enough money

[oblique ice]

confusing conversation

[uncut tendon]

The way you put your sentences makes you seem like some extraterrestial being trying to mimic humans

[severe sundial]

so what can u help me?

if not, ....???

[uncut tendon]

I can actually help you earn money

Theres a good and releiable method for that

[green oyster]

what like a job??

[uncut tendon]

100/100

A+

[earnest pecan]

bro how the hell am I supposed to apply for a job when everyone wants someone who has shipped a game

where do I even start

😔

[uncut tendon]

What job needs a shipped game?

Internships at mechanical engineering companies are always available

You can be a mechanic, electrician, mechatronician, painter, those guys who use CNCs ( i only know the german word), technical product designer.

[earnest pecan]

game design, level design and writing (for games) jobs

[earnest pecan]

oh wait that's not what I meant haha

[uncut tendon]

Good luck finding a job

[earnest pecan]

thanks!

[willow hollow]

guh?

[livid coyote]

It’s because for companies it’s a safer hire getting someone who’s shipped a title and worked in a production environment if you’re starting out your career look at junior/intern roles and gain experience through game jams maybe indie projects etc

[woeful iron]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

just apply anyway though

ignore job requirements, they're wishlists, shoot your shot if you want

[oblique ice]

yes just apply anyway, those requirement sometimes nonsense

[earnest pecan]

really? damnnn 🤔

that's a pretty bad misnomer 😖

[earnest pecan]

thanks! I'm gonna do that!

[formal burrow]

I recommend also looking at rev share projects that are global and are lead up by industry professionals that have at least shipped a game themselves to get your first shipped game under your belt if you are not a all around generalist yourself!

[vivid kernel]

3 Years ago i got an offer Where they Needed in depth knowledge of Meta Humans which i never used before so didnt apply

[oblique ice]

ouh, i don't even use meta human 😂

[vivid kernel]

many of these companies put everything in 1 Work profile as requirement. Crazy as well as Extremely Confusing.

[grim viper]

anyone had luck posting jobs on here?

[chilly sundial]

What issues are you having?

[grim viper]

no issues just want to know how. im looking to recruit for a small game for revenue share and didnt know if posting was worth it

[ivory echo]

Experiences may vary

[round radish]

We posted a while back and got a single response. The guy was "above" source control and decided to spend all his time critiquing our project setup, eventually deciding we were not worth his time. I'm not surprised he was looking for a project to work on, I doubt anyone else would have him.

[woeful iron]

lol

[round radish]

Just to note: We aren't really rev share. Our expected income is $0 😛

[woeful iron]

how about loss share?

[round radish]

Nah!

[oblique ice]

i think alot of people sell games here, wait to see the one that simply sharing link to their steam game and didn't read rules 🤣

[round radish]

#fab

[wary jackal]

Hi all!

I once followed a UE5 course and passed the final test with 29/30, but I haven't used UE5 in a while, so I've been wondering if there's someone who needs an extra hand on working on a project so that I donìt forget more about it and maybe make some use of that piece of paper.

[ivory echo]

#volunteer-projects

[wary jackal]

thanks!

[dapper ibex]

I do

[woeful iron]

you would match great with that other blockchain guy

tfw the first skill you list about yourself is gpt 4

also, maybe learn to read the rules

[ivory echo]

Skills:
-I am GPT 4.

[round radish]

"My intelligence is artificial. I am 4."

[urban badger]

hey guys

I am a 3d artist4

any one wanna hire me?

[low crystal]

Bruh

[lucid dagger]

I am rev-share hiring you to read the #instructions

[round radish]

We'll take you if you're AAA-quality and will work for free.

[woeful iron]

is that the upgraded version of 3d artist 3?

[digital gate]

<@&213101288538374145> Vis on spam

[pure gyro]

As a college kid, what is the best way to getting an intership related to programming?

[void gust]

Apparently the best way is to spam Discord servers. They just keep doing it, man.

[pure gyro]

Oh, so that would mean remote only, which discord server? I have never heard of this honestly..

[void gust]

No, I was joking. There are always a bunch of spammers in this server who won't quit it.

[low crystal]

Lmaooo

[oblique ice]

hm i thought have github and share your code at github was one of way 🤔

[formal lion]

Lol

[pure gyro]

May I get non trolly answers?

[round radish]

I see you've encountered your own version of the trolly problem!

[oblique ice]

? this conversation is still continue? 🤣

[pure gyro]

I thought that too

[pure gyro]

<@&213101288538374145> Advertising + dming

[north narwhal]

yeah thats a bot

[low crystal]

I don’t think this is a viable way lol

But I guess try to share your code and wait for someone to offer internship

[pure gyro]

Share it where and how is the true question

[fervent palm]

Could just take a screenshot

Question really is not difficult

[wraith mortar]

<@&213101288538374145> ^

Tried to add a strikethrough to be funny and it puts it underneath the ^ instead ^ 😄

[round radish]

That's kinda cool tbf.

[misty epoch]

Hi!

[woeful iron]

#volunteer-projects

[low hill]

Is 3d neche is saturated , like recently some school students to ask me about to start career in 3d..need suggestions, for my observation it's hard to find commission work in these days💀

[low crystal]

Neche?

[wraith mortar]

niche

[low crystal]

Ah so is 3d niche saturated 🤔

I’d say yes

[wraith mortar]

Yeah, but that isn't really the relevant factor if you're doing it for work

You need to out-compete the other 3d artists for work

And there is a ton of talented competition

[low crystal]

A lot of amateurs too it’s saturated on both sides 🤕

[wraith mortar]

Biggest issue atm is that there are no jobs for newcomers atm and no one knows if/when it will recover

Awful time for people just starting out

[whole plume]

Hey,
General question :
How can I reach a level at which I can apply for this Principal Software Engineer - Client kind of position please ? The requirements seem so high and impossible or is it only me ? 🤔 Here my question is more about what should I learn and where can I find those resources to learn and reach that level (in multiple years of course) and be ready

We are looking for a Principal Software Engineer to develop gameplay, UI and systems for our new action-packed combat-focused MMO developed in Unreal Engine. Our headquarters are located in -, - but this role can be fully remote.

Responsibilities

    Design, develop and implement gameplay, UI and systems in Unreal Engine and C++.
    Develop client and server networked gameplay code.
    Work with the Production, Design, Art and QA teams to plan, implement and iterate on game concepts and features.
    Integrate gameplay systems with other parts of our platform.
    Develop tools and pipelines that support high performance use of user generated content.

Requirements

    10+ years of game development for PC or console platforms.
    7+ years of experience using C++.
    2+ years of experience using Unreal Engine.
    Ability to collaborate effectively across disciplines such as art, design and engineering.
    Proven problem-solving and application of good software engineering practices.
    BS degree in Computer Science or a related field, or significant industry experience as the degree equivalent.

Pluses

    Experience working on games that have significant online components such as MMOs.
    Experience in auditing and improving client security of a game.
    Experience in graphics debugging, profiling, and optimization, especially in Unreal Engine.
    Technical knowledge of networked client/server systems, game security, or experience with implementing   solutions that combat game cheating.
    Experience with real-time physics simulation systems (Chaos, Physx etc.)

[round radish]

Most All job listings describe the perfect candidate. That candidate doesn't exist. Just apply. Even if you overreach your abilities. Most people are just faking it until they make it.

Combine that with just doing things in UE. And maybe getting a degree along the way.

[whole plume]

Oh, I thought I was crazy 🤣
But doing things in UE is vague, so do you have a bit more precise things that could help me and guide me to reach that level as mentioned in my question please ? 🙂

[round radish]

For that particular job, becoming extremely proficient in c++ would be the best thing you could do.

[round radish]

Make a game. All parts of it. You will get to grips with UE.

And do the majority of it in c++, it seems.

Learning which bits (the minority) you should absolutely do in BP instead will be part of the process.

[whole plume]

How long do you think it would take me (I only have the basics of C++ on the theory level) and I have some small experience in other programming languages, and the last time I tried to do C++ stuff in UE I quit because it was a mess (mainly tried C++ for GAS setup and it was a pain that made me quit) ?

[round radish]

https://www.learncpp.com/

Game dev is demanding and wholly unrewarding the majority of the time. It requires persistence. If you quit when things get messy or hard, you won't get anywhere.

[whole plume]

true, it's just that C++ in Unreal doesn't look like the C++ I learned with all those Macros, syntax suggaring, etc... it confused me alot

[round radish]

Yeah, it can be a pain.

UE has its own ecosystem that pretty much replaces std most of the time.

#cpp can help.

[whole plume]

Do you have good resources to learn C++ through practice in Unreal directly (preferably video tutorials) please ?

[round radish]

Sorry I do not!

I learned c++ and unreal at the same time... without many tutorials. It was... slow going 😄

[whole plume]

How long did it take you to be proficient at it ? 👀

[round radish]

I started them both about 11 years ago... still I see many people on here who are leagues ahead of me. And I am literally employed to do UE c++ stuff.

[whole plume]

but that doesn't answer my question 😛 Like how long did take you to then be proficient that you can be like "oh I can do stuff easily now (even more if it's for a job)" 😄 ?

Or if asked differently, how long would it take before you would apply for a job as you feel being ready to take that responsability ? 🙂

[round radish]

Tbh, I didn't even apply for my current job. I've only ever been headhunted for UE jobs - my first one was because somebody found my github account.

I still don't think I'm really proficient or qualified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome 😂

[whole plume]

How long before that happened (meaning from the start of your journey until you got headhunted) 😄

[round radish]

The point is, pretty much everyone feels like that.

[pure gyro]

1 year of hard working for the basics
(no heavy multi threading or meta programming)

[whole plume]

True but there are people who feel like that but it's the case and others they feel like that but it's not the case 😄

[round radish]

I'm probably a bad example. I've been doing coding for like 30 years, but was a late comer to c++, really. I had a lot of transferable skills. I've been doing UE professionally for 4 years now, though.

I took a break from UE from about 4.20 until 5.0

While developing my first game (back before UE4 launched) I wrote my own version of Slate because the Slate docs were awful 😄

(that's with a few months of c++ experience)

[whole plume]

Oh wow, and did you do multiplayer stuff too ?

[round radish]

Yes.

I had a background in web dev, so working with asynchronous systems came naturally.

[whole plume]

Nice, and how long for C++ in Unreal ?

[round radish]

(That wasn't aimed at me!)

[pure gyro]

I did 1 month of raw cpp, then the rest of the year of unreal

[whole plume]

And you were confortable enough after 1 year in Unreal C++ ?

[round radish]

It depends how dedicated you are.

[pure gyro]

Yea I think I was

[round radish]

Just don't start with Lyra.

[whole plume]

Ahaha why ? 🤣

[whole plume]

And do you have a job in UE C++ field ?

[pure gyro]

no

[whole plume]

mhhh

Do you think you're ready if you had to apply for one ?

[round radish]

It's meant to be an example of how to use all the systems... but it's a horrible mess of over engineered complexity.

[pure gyro]

Yesn't, there are many more things I have to learn but I think I have the same level as most people after university

[whole plume]

So it's a template that should be an example for people to follow made by the best devs (i.e Epic Games) and it's a mess ? 🤣

[round radish]

It's a showcase, not a template.

If that makes sense?

Like a supercar... but nobody uses supercars. They drive a Prius or whatever.

You don't need a supercar to commute to work. Nor is it a good idea to use one.

[whole plume]

are you sure about that ? Because usually if Epic makes a template is to teach people how to use their technology by providing an example

[round radish]

Yes.

Lyra is good if you want to make Fortnite. Nobody is making Fortnite except Epic.

[whole plume]

But alot of people dream of making Fortnite 2 👀

[round radish]

Good luck to them.

[whole plume]

Ahahaha

[whole plume]

Coming back to my original question, if I follow this path, do you think I would be ready for that position :

• year 1 : Practice General C++
• year 2 : Practice UE C++ + Do Projects

[digital gate]

At a Principal level, by my underleveled understanding, all of these responsibilities aren’t strictly about taking your time and outputting the code systems that work. You’ll more so have to figure out how to get near-enough to goals, and how to align both your department and others on the outcome. You might be pushing several of these individual responsibilities at the same time, even if you’re really making it palatable work for seniors to take over.

[grave cove]

While I would agree with Daekesh that lots of job listings are going to be wishlists, there's still some basic bar. They're not going to realistically consider someone with 2 years of experience for a Principal level engineer slot. There's a reason the 10 year dev experience is right up top.

[whole plume]

platable work for seniors ?
So it's more of a leading job than writing code, then ?

[digital gate]

Starting from the basics, this might prepare you for a junior or mid role at a company on that timeline

[digital gate]

It’s a bit amorphous compared to lower levels of IC

It’s not management, but its like a really hands on director sometimes

But again, I’ve only really worked alongside principals

[whole plume]

Makes sense, here I provided that job offer as an example but there will be other positions open and other jobs like that and wanted to know what do to reach that level where I can apply for those offers 😄 Because reading those offers seems impossible to reach 😄

[grave cove]

It can depend a lot on organization and size. My current role is as a Principal, but we're so small my day to day is closer to an IC.
I try to take a larger view of our tech than the immediate tasks and be more forward thinking than even a senior role might.

[digital gate]

If you can’t get any attention for “Game Programmer” or “Senior” roles, or are being rejected from those, you should not expect better success applying to Staff / Principal

[grave cove]

Definitely not impossible. My own cv beats all of those things they're looking for. It just takes time.

[whole plume]

how long ? 👀

[chilly sundial]

To get to a level where yoh can apply for those it's simply about starting low and working up. You don't need to upskill in your leadership and technical design qualities if you've not even gotten in the door yet. Don't overwhelm yourself, roles like that are a far way down your career

[chilly sundial]

Look at the role, a decade probably at minimum. I don't personally think I've seen a principal with less

[whole plume]

I never understood the naming like Junior, Senior, that the US used, what do they correspond to exactly ? 🤔

[chilly sundial]

It's levels of seniority.

Junior > Mid level > Senior > Lead/Principal (depending on if you want a more managerial, or tech focused role

[grave cove]

mostly years of experience ... very general role and responsibility

[whole plume]

And in terms of years, what does it correspond to ? Or is it calculated in another way ?

[grave cove]

don't forget Staff. title inflation is real

[digital gate]

Some companies use

Programmer I
Programmer Ii
Etc

https://www.levels.fyi/

[grave cove]

"Associate" is a common modifier for entry level positions

[digital gate]

It’s not uniform. 10 years of remaking the same systems the same ways isn’t equivalent experience to 10 years of having to mod the engine to release novel mechanics

[chilly sundial]

Generally from what I've seen, your junior levels will last from your first year and either be quite short, or last a couple of years. Mid level gets blurry. Senior doesn't tend to be below 5 years from some roles I've seen. Principal/Lead is rarely below 10

But that highly depends on the company

[digital gate]

What I would try in your shoes is to prepare as hard as you can, maybe look into what a senior role does, prepare for that, and apply for a midlevel role with a good portfolio and maybe a few team projects done.

Better if you can have contracted work too.

Then, don’t assume that you’re a senior being held back. The senior stuff is a goal, a north star. The application of theory is where your true potential willl begin to be observable

[chilly sundial]

After all nothing stopping you making your own studio and declaring yourself lead principle chief technical director :P

[whole plume]

True but how would the company judge which thing you are between Junior, Mid, Senior, etc.. ?

[digital gate]

Well some of that is the secret sauce

I’m not a hiring manager, but if you send me some stuff I can give you my opinion

[whole plume]

And does projects making / experience count if that experience is acquired outside of a video game company (like for instance acquiring that on my own time) ?

[digital gate]

Oh it does

[whole plume]

I heared some people saying it doesn't

[chilly sundial]

I'd say it depends. Making a project by yourself I would say counts for a year of experience with the tool, but not a year of professional experience

[digital gate]

Copying youtube tutorials doesn’t, but doing serious work on your own like making useful engine plugins or contributions DO, shipping games can obviously count

[whole plume]

shipping games is hard 😬 But by shipping games do you mean making a commercial game or finishing a small game and put in our github repo or itch.io does count too ?

[digital gate]

I absolutely mentioned personal projects in my interviews (along with contracted work)

[whole plume]

How did it go ?

[grave cove]

Yeah, I talked about personal projects during my interviews too. Well, school projects for my first job. Personal projects for the interview 10years later.

[digital gate]

Nobody will see “Pongreal 3D” and be impressed, but if you have a great mechanic that is interesting to discuss on a technical level it can count

There isn’t a shortcut

[chilly sundial]

I'd personally say take some initiative and look at it with some criticality.

If you posted a job role would you feel a candidate that spent a week - a month making something for itch.io, or playing around with templates counts as a shipped game? What about a candidate that spent a year working with friends to make a commercial title?

[digital gate]

There’s not any one metric you can optimize for

[chilly sundial]

It's something you can apply elsewhere too. If a job wants a shipped app as a requirement, my little CRUD calendar app probably doesn't fit the bill

[whole plume]

yeah playing with a template doesn't really count as it feels it's not enough, but making a small game that takes between 6 months to 1 year and publish it on itch.io would be good to me 👀

[chilly sundial]

Even then I'd say it depends on the game. 6 months isn't very long on solo dev land. I'd weigh my criteria on an as objective as possible evaluation of the output.

I've spent months on bp only projects, and while it was challenging and I learned a lot at the time, i would feel incredibly dishonest if I counted it as a shipped game because I slapped it on itch

[digital gate]

On the other hand, if you built a custom cross platform library/layer that enables you to deliver a basic calendar app on all major platforms, that probably gets your foot in the door more than somebody who has been part of a team that shipped a Unity game on that same target platform

[chilly sundial]

Indeed

Also worth noting that even if a project didn't fit the criteria of "shipped", it doesn't mean you can't talk about it in an interview

[whole plume]

True but there's also an issue that I heared about not having enough projects to show, so I can either make a single game that takes 2 years or make 3 to 4 ones that take 6 months

[chilly sundial]

No ones expecting an entry level person to have multiple polished shipped games

More to the point, the interviewer probably doesn't care about your sound design and your modelling skills and that time you had to take 2 months to learn animation for that solo project.

That's why tech demos are your friend

A project doesn't need to be polished and full, commercially viable and museum quality, because frankly no one has 10 years to wait before they get an entry level job

You just need to demonstrate skill in the area you're applying for

[grave cove]

Yeah, most entry level applicant's are coming with a degree and some student projects. or a couple of personal projects.
But like others have said, those project aren't really expected to be "shipped" level polish.

[digital gate]

Also if you’re wanting to use these to get the attention of recruiters, the quicker they can see or interact with the cool thing, the better. It depends on your strategy, but having a bunch of 30s itch games that can all embed on one page may be a huge boon

[whole plume]

Yeah makes sense

[digital gate]

There’s no recruiter that is gonna download your full steam game

[chilly sundial]

As long as it's intuitive. Id take a terse website over a frustrating one that makes me click off because I can't figure it out.

I've seen a fair few people that go for visual prowess over usability

[digital gate]

(Which is not to say that the existence of the Steam game is a detriment!)

[whole plume]

Like for instance I made the game CrocoDentist (not in Unreal), where would you rank that type of project according to what we spoke about before ?

https://tenor.com/view/crocodile-crocodile-game-gif-26588472

[chilly sundial]

It's all down to the individual project and how you showcase it. A steam project isn't inherently more worthy than a github repo. The github repo for a little plugin that demonstrates something useful, that is well built and considerate of requirements could both be presented and received better than a steam game that took 2 weeks to build, slapped on there for the sake of it.

[chilly sundial]

The game in the gif?

[whole plume]

Yup

[chilly sundial]

What did you make it in?

[whole plume]

Unity 👀

[digital gate]

Here’s a super fast guide to levels:
Junior-most people tend to need bite sized taskings, and spoonfed their priorities, and be managed more directly

Midlevel can generally complete most tasks with less supervision

Senior are expected to be able to take an abstract goal and break the project down to hand it to less senior staff, and see it through to delivery. Maybe supervise the juniors. More often doing all the work.

Principals are more like “Hey how can I solve this org problem, which teams can help, what tech must I invent”

[chilly sundial]

I'd have it on if I didn't have anything else, but I'd probably be quick to replace or supplement it as from a 2 second thought, it doesn't seem to demonstrate technical complexity.

Now if you'd made such a game perhaps with your own crossplatform support, built with sfml, raylib, dx11, opengl, whatever lower level library, then yes, because even though the game is logically simple, you've made it in something that requires some thought

[digital gate]

All that’s in the context of a team tho, just because you’re solodev doesn’t make you a senior+

[whole plume]

Mhhh, but what if I make a game that has alot of small systems (nothing really complicated) but it's polished in terms of gameplay, visual, audio, etc... ? 🤔

Like for instance a game like Tunic

[chilly sundial]

Is there any path past principal?. From all I've seen so far it sort of ends there, because your other roles like tech director tend to require the more managerial experience of being a lead.

[whole plume]

https://tenor.com/view/tunic-video-games-gif-27233216

[chilly sundial]

Again though, what does polished video and graphics achieve for you in a programming role? How does that demonstrate to an interviewer that you can solve complex C++ problems.

You're handicapping yourself by focusing on everything else other than what the role requires

[digital gate]

Got no insight there, tbh

[chilly sundial]

Fair enough

[digital gate]

I imagine if you’re primarily managing principals but are yourself still IC, your company better respect your desire to go management as a Director if you’re so inclined

[whole plume]

True, but at the same time I don't have ideas of interesting projects to do that are in the gameplay programming field compared to the examples you guys gave about plugins that are useful and stuff

[chilly sundial]

I think personally you're focusing too much on "shipped game" criteria, which isn't often in entry level roles for obvious reasons.

Shipped games come as a natural consequence of employment. Focus on matching yourself technically impressive

[digital gate]

Otherwise you’re gonna have a solid start to sidestep out of the org

[pure gyro]

Look at this video and you will realize you will not know enough after 1 year(at least I felt stupid when watching this): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU0MXdvDpYg

[whole plume]

Yeah this guy is cracked but at the same time he's doing so many different things, from electronics to programming, to minecraft redstone, so the portfolio woulnd't be as good I think as someone who puts only the things he applies for

[low hill]

Exactly ! I feel like nowadays some clients prefer using AI for their product advertisements instead of 3D work. Before AI became popular, even beginner or intermediate 3D artists used to get small projects and earn from them, but now most of those opportunities have shifted towards AI

[uncut tendon]

Damn clankers

[digital gate]

Through what lens? It doesn’t seem especially useful based on the embed here

[rigid drum]

Rogue-likes not rouge-likes 😭

[grave cove]

Without watching I can tell you the answer is yes. First because you can make any kind of game in unreal (even if fps might be the easiest) and second because a genre like that isn’t even specific enough to limit the expression in any way.

[void gust]

Are big AAA game companies actually using AI generated 3D assets? That's mostly the small devs who can't afford artists, and you can't copyright art that was made by AI. So, I'm not sure if it's even true that game companies won't hire just because there is AI.

Or are you talking about freelancing?

[ivory geode]

if they are, its prob very sparse

3d models are still hard for AI

[smoky beacon]

Epic had a company talk about this exact workflow pipeline. they published it a few weeks ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GXlwkqkPm0

Worth a skim through, the workflows they come up with are VERY niche and VERY much one offs depending on the project. You'd need a handful of very resourceful technical artists with 5-10 years of experience and a lot of neuroplasticity to make it work.

[void gust]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Not every company is laying off or freezing hiring because of AI. There simply isn't enough confidence in the future of the global economy, so companies would rather save their profits than to hire more people. That and they hired too many people during 2020.

[uncut tendon]

Let me introduce you to the beautiful World of Low Poly assets

[livid coyote]

Even to this day as well companies are still recovering from the mass hiring during covid times. That’s also reasoning for the layoffs too

[ivory echo]

This is not allowed here. Use #1054845120236757103 or #1054845218723209226

[crisp moth]

Fine. thankyou

[grave cove]

Not a hiring channel. See #instructions

[low crystal]

Bruh

[brittle saffron]

Oh ok. I remove my msg then.
Where should I post ?

[grave cove]

The channel I linked explains the job boards and links for correctly posting jobs.

[ivory echo]

In #rev-share-jobs probably

[lime cove]

those here who runs small indie game studio/startup on UE. how do you guys do the SWOT analysis?

[carmine quest]

Lol what do you mean by neuroplasticity in this context

[carmine quest]

AI for 3d models is used at this point primarily by scammy mobile game companies who A.) don't care about copyrights B.) don't care about quality and C.) don't care about specificity. It gives you models with shit topology and shit textures that can't deform and don't hold up under close inspection. Which really only works for some type of "merge mansion" type game where the assets are really small on screen, they don't do anything else but sit there, and it doesn't matter that the visual style, color or shape language isn't consistent from one mesh to another. The funny part is, the other requirement is that they also must not care much about optimization which is a bit antithetical to the mobile game format.

These companies were already doing asset flips for low quality slop, probably using pirated assets already anyway. So its not really stealing much jobs. The thing you really have to worry about is idiotic studio heads thinking the technology can do something it can't and firing people and wasting studio resources trying to put a square peg through a human shaped hole. Not everyone knows what the technology is and isn't good for or is and isn't capable of, and that's the true danger of it.

[smoky beacon]

The idea that you need people who can make HUGE leaps of tying current AI tech to what the end goal/vision will be.

You can't just plop anybody with 5-10 years of technical artist expertise into a computer chair and say "This is what we think we want - go build a full art pipeline that uses AI".

[carmine quest]

Honestly thats exactly what they're doing though 😂 look at what they did with unity

And i tried the AI assistant in unreal its utter crap

Honestly cascadeur or quickmagic is probably the best case scenario for what AI technology can be used for in the industry

[smoky beacon]

Very few studios are managing it.

In 2-3 years time everybody will be managing it.

[carmine quest]

Pretty much the only ones who aren't bullshitting about actually being a "tool" to "aid artists" instead of steal jobs

[carmine quest]

Well you have a lot of optimism there. I and everyone else seem to think within 2-3 years the bubble will pop

And the days of executives trying to shoehorn "make AI work somehow" into every job imaginable will hopefully be over

[smoky beacon]

Same as the internet "popped" in 2001. Make money while the going is good.

[carmine quest]

Its not good already 😅 money and work has been especially dire recently

But yeah i had the same thought

Its only gonna get worse

[smoky beacon]

I look at it like this.

1. Fancy jobs at AAA studios are going the way of the dinosaur.
2. Smaller 5-15 man studios will take over their place.
3. we'll see a proliferation of new IP/new games only coming out of these tiny studios.

[carmine quest]

I agree in the long run

[smoky beacon]

Thats the here and right now imo.

[carmine quest]

But every client i know that had the resources at one point is finding the money drying up presently

Thats just past few months

It was good earlier in the year

Every well i know to go to for work is dry right now

Nobody got no damn money rn

[smoky beacon]

Thats just the US economy taking a dump right now. I know people who lived off client work having similar issues. Just eat lean and brush up on your resume/portfolio for when it comes back.

[carmine quest]

Not my observation. EU, mexico, etc

Only one of my usual clients is US based

[smoky beacon]

US economy = world economy.

[carmine quest]

Definitely connected yup

[smoky beacon]

To go back to mobile games - majority of mobile games make 80% of their profits from the US. I imagine Steam/itch/GoG are the same.

[carmine quest]

That can't be right. I know firsthand how huge mobile gaming is in SEA

People don't play consoles or PC games as much here. Everyone is playing league of legends on their phone

[low crystal]

What is SEA?

[carmine quest]

Southeast asia

[smoky beacon]

South East asia

[low crystal]

ah okay

[smoky beacon]

I never really count China in any of my business calculations. Its a weird market to get into. I've been approached by a mobile publisher there but got weird mixed signals from them.

I personally only look at or think of US/CA/UK/IT. In that order.

[carmine quest]

China isn't SEA though

I'm just skeptical of the notion that as much as 80% of profits could come from the US considering how huge mobile gaming is out here

[smoky beacon]

I know its huge but its a market I've never considered touching. Even though they 100% market games in the US constantly.

[carmine quest]

Indonesia alone is one of the worlds most populous countries. And you see it all the time on the street in vietnam. Not everyone has a computer and barely anyone has a console, but EVERYONE has a smart phone

[smoky beacon]

Ah, yeah, there's another I don't do: Target androids.

[carmine quest]

I think it does require a different approach than the us market for sure

[carmine cove]

If you’re starting out, I’d say it’s definitely better to target the audience you’re more familiar with

[carmine quest]

Thats probably a big one then. But you'd also be surprised how many people out here got iphones 😂

Its weird how even when cheap androids exist people will forego having a laptop and spend the equivalent of several months rent just to still have an iphone. I think it's a status thing

Cuz expensive Samsung phones is still big out here too

[carmine cove]

Localization might be worth it with how good translation tools have become. It could be easy and you get extra money from those people even if your primary audience is a different region

[smoky beacon]

Localization is a no brainer you have to do it.

[carmine cove]

Those people meaning everyone you translate for

Not in a racist way 😳

[smoky beacon]

Oh yeah I know, its super cheap to buy ios installs in random tier2 and 3 countries. Good for testing. Bad for IAPs.

[carmine quest]

iOS installs?

Also whats IAPs

[smoky beacon]

the operating system that runs on iphones/ipads is called iOS. IAPs = inapp purchases

Lot of people miss the business side of games in here. Kind of a bummer.

They see the $80k a year job at a AAA studio in a big city and scream when its not available. =/

[carmine quest]

Oh i know what iOS is but why are you paying for installs

[smoky beacon]

Thats how you get players to play your game initially. You pay facebook/applovin/etc for installs.

[carmine quest]

The business stuff is something I've been trying to get good at. I have artist brain so its not really my forte

[smoky beacon]

You have to look at the business side of games like a giant funnel. You show people your steam game, they either buy or they don't.

mobile games you show them your game, they install, and they generally uninstall in 5 minutes to a few hours.

[carmine quest]

I'm really versatile and good at picking stuff up. If you asked me to figure out enough industrial engineering to build a realistic destruction simulator i could figure out enough to do some damage in less than a month. But for some reason its the business stuff / social media that always stumps me

[smoky beacon]

It's a little weird, don't be afraid to ask w/e. I've been promoting mobile games since candy crush saga.

[carmine quest]

I did not even know you could do that. How does that program work?

[smoky beacon]

You create a facebook ad, tell facebook "I generally want to spend $2-5 per install/sale in the US/UK/JP", provide it with some promotional artwork/videos and the link to your mobile game/steam page.

You basically bid against other people to show your ad/game to people who might be interested.

[carmine quest]

I've definitely had a personal interest in them. But mainly in that the state of mobile games hasn't changed since like 2005

Even though most phone hardware now has the power to basically run PS4 or nintendo switch games these days

[low crystal]

Damn so you been in the mobile game arena for over a decade

[smoky beacon]

Its a bad addiction 😄

[carmine quest]

And also people have kinda been trained to ignore anything that isn't free to play

[smoky beacon]

You see the scale that mobile games can go versus steam/pc games.

[smoky beacon]

Its all about accessibility and pc games aren't exactly easy to access.

[low crystal]

True 😭

[smoky beacon]

not that you can't make millions on pc

or billions

I just like mobile for how quick it scales.

[carmine quest]

Its a huge market but its a weird market

[carmine quest]

Like i said about southeast asia and smartphones

Its a thing in eastern Europe too. People be spending twice their monthly salary on phones and dgaf about laptops. Esp gaming laptops

You're basically never going to break into the mobile gaming market with a paid game, so you need to rethink how you monetize

So people COULD be delivering PS4 level or at least PS3 level gaming experiences but they won't because it doesn't work with the current mobile gaming model

[smoky beacon]

1000%, There have been some successes in the past but yeah its all free to play. Its all a mix of IAP/Ad supported. Rewarded ads are huge money makers for games.

Whats funny is that its all kind of a self contained ecosystem. Rewarded ads in one game, pushing players to play/check out other free to play mobile games.

[carmine quest]

Personally i think the best model for people who still want to make actually good games is to effectively have the free to play version be a demo

Lock your full paid game behind a OTP or expansion or smth

Its the only way to do it that isn't the freemium / ftp model

[smoky beacon]

That might be the way of the future tbh but for a while now I don't think it will be.

Consumers seem pretty content with either grinding out f2p or buying IAPs. You also can't discount mobile game whales.

If you want a egregious example of a mobile game that is explicitly to hunt whales you need to check out: Monopoly Go.

[low crystal]

What is whales in this context

[chilly sundial]

whales are people that spend large amounts of money in a game

[carmine quest]

Oh I know, companies will always see the ridiculous amount of money they can make hunting whales and continue to engineer things towards this ever more enshittified model but i also think you should never underestimate one thing

The ability for consumers to eventually get pissed off and seek alternatives

The one single problem with this model is you need the masses to play your game for the whales to even show up and the masses are increasingly annoyed at this stuff

[smoky beacon]

whales make up like 50% of monopoly go's revenue and they have earned billions off of that game alone.

[carmine quest]

I believe given literally any alternative that doesn't completely offend their senses on a regular basis, people wekl tend towards that

[smoky beacon]

I agree with you in principle. I do. Its just the marketplace doesn't lie and people love their IAPs.

People had that choice years ago:
No IAPs = 1 time upfront cost
IAPs = Free to play

[carmine quest]

That's why the mobile industry has basically become one giant gambling industry

And why its been on the radar of EU regulators as of recent

[carmine quest]

Its a boiling point, honestly. And its definitely a slow build. People have put up with this for decades now. But the fact that there is legal issues with the industry now just tells me that boiling point is close now

And it starts by just swooping up the customers who have been pushed past the edge. But boil a pot long enough and it will eventually dry up.

Mass adoption is a very very slow very very hard thing to do especially now

[smoky beacon]

I think the gambling side of it will be regulated but I don't see that changing anything with the F2P model.

They'll just remove the gambling.

[carmine quest]

Side tangent, You guys heard of federated social media?

[carmine quest]

Yeah but its events like this that have the potential to shake up the landscape

Give the frog just enough of a kick to escape the boiling pot

[void gust]

It's not just about the population size, but it has more to do with consumption per capita. The US has (or at least had) the highest amount of people who could spend more money. Largest consumer economy on the planet (for now). So, if any company wants to make money then they need to sell to the US consumer who has more money to spend. For example, for every $10 an American spends, a European would spend only $3-$5 on average, depending on region. Who would you choose to sell to in that case? That's just a generalization, though but it's where the 80% number comes from.

As for your earlier comment about AI, I have similar feelings on the subject.

Asia is catching up, though.

[blissful sigil]

This is literally the conversation I've been having with a client who reacted to US tariffs by wanting to focus on Canada as a Canadian business and now their ROA dropped to 200-300%

Hilarious

[void gust]

Sounds like he needed to learn the hard way.

[spice dagger]

@pale prairie Please use the Job Board. Following the #instructions channell.

[smoky beacon]

I laughed a little too hard at this. 🙂 ty

[void gust]

You would have much better luck asking this at the Job Board, since this isn't the correct channel for that.

[woeful iron]

Maybe look for #instructions instead

[ivory echo]

Another sleeper spammer lol

[void gust]

One of my preferred pronouns is COO. I can help you. My net worth rises daily thanks to AI powered, next generation, AAA quality tools.

[woeful iron]

hey, wasn't your name elizabeth before

[vocal haven]

Hey guys,
I'm going into gamedev after 5 years of webdev and I've been thinking about web browser game for a first game. That would be a 2d game, but eventually I want to go into Unreal engine. Is that make sense to make this web browser in Godot and after that switch to Unreal or. from the beginning Unreal?

[round radish]

Depends why you want to use Unreal.

If you don't want to use Godot in the long run, you'll just waste a year learning it.

[shut token]

But if you want to do a 2D game in the browser - Unreal is definitely not the right tool for the job

[vocal haven]

Yeah... This is why I'm thinking about. Godot...

[plucky hatch]

Hey, anyone here who have managed to create a successfull career out of unreal engine? Someone that is employed perhaps?

[shut token]

There are many routes you can go. Ultimately - it depends on what you want. If you really want to make a 2D browser game, go for it. But if you know, in your heart of hearts, that you're just going to be doing 3D games in Unreal - just use Unreal and ignore the browser.

No one can really make this decision for you

[digital gate]

There are dozens of us. Dozens!

(Ask your questions tho) https://dontasktoask.com/

Also you’re not meant to crosspost

[uncut tendon]

#introductions

Not here

[wraith mortar]

They never delete it after you tell them

[spice dagger]

@mellow mulch Please use the Job Board.

[wraith mortar]

Makes me feel like it's on purpose lol

[spice dagger]

No, people are just lazy.

[uncut tendon]

They cant read

[wraith mortar]

Suppose

[spice dagger]

They also don't care.

Which is even worse.

If they don't care to post in the right channel, how does that reflect on your abilities when it comes to work?

[uncut tendon]

But not as bad as the dm sliders

[uncut tendon]

Dont worry, they are General 3d artists fluent in every damn modeling software there exists

[chilly sundial]

It makes me chuckle when it's some marketer or seo optimizer.

Hmm yes ill choose the person that can't read rules of the platform they post on, I'm sure that will be good for business and can in no way bite me whatsoever 🤣

[spice dagger]

Hired on the spot

[uncut tendon]

"Hey btw i am a 17 year old 3 designer fluent in Blender, Ue5, unity, manually writing .obj files in notepad++ . I have a degree in computer science, Business, Marketing, tricknology and electrical engineering"

And they have a fiverr profile with a whole 2 followers

[twilit spoke]

<@&213101288538374145> can you delete my freelance post, my most recent.

I messed it up!

[spice dagger]

You can do it yourself

[twilit spoke]

how

[spice dagger]

#instructions

[void gust]

[dapper ibex]

What's funny?

[fading flint]

Bro gotta chose a major

[manic mantle]

Helo Guys, I am Ahmed I have 5 years unreal and unity game developnment experience and im looking for a new contract project is there any one interested.

[low crystal]

The irony

[fervent palm]

No Ahmed there isn’t any

[uncut tendon]

Yes I havw a contract

[void gust]

Yes, but you must be proficient and have 17 years of experience in programming languages that have existed for only 5. Are you prepared?

[uncut tendon]

17 years of experience in Verse

[void gust]

NOW THAT'S A QUALIFIED CANDIDATE!!!

[uncut tendon]

And I have a degree in electrical engineering, tricknology and cs. All with 15

[ivory echo]

So you’d make a great DoorDash driver

[rain mango]

Hey Ahmad, You won't find a job in here, Try checking the freelance jobs in job board

[plucky hatch]

@digital gate Hii, thank you for your feedback its much appreciated.

[sullen python]

If you have any contracts or projects related to game development, I’d be very interested in collaborating with you.

[manic mantle]

@uncut tendon I tried sending you a message in DM, but it doesn’t seem to be going through.

[chilly sundial]

Of course every message other than the offer is ignored

[finite knoll]

are these bots just latching on to "contract"

[uncut tendon]

Ahmed even made a fake resume

[void gust]

That's a great AI generated movie title: The Contract. Rated R.

[uncut tendon]

Speak

Please speak

[flat magnet]

https://unstop.com/p/unreal-engine-5-developer-vystudio-1592594

[sullen python]

check dm

[manic mantle]

I’m not using a fake resume, I’m genuinely looking for a new opportunity. If you have any doubts, we can schedule a quick call where I can prove my skills and experience.

[uncut tendon]

You send job offers in the wrong channel, proving that you work sloppy, and then with an anime pfp

No employer likes that

[manic mantle]

I’m new to Discord, so I’m still getting used to it. If you have any questions, we can discuss them over a call instead.

[uncut tendon]

Do you even understand the problem?

Discord is NOT a platform for serious job interviews

You should look out for enterprises and send your resume to them

[manic mantle]

Yes, I remember you mentioned you’re aware of the contract role, which is why I sent you my resume.

[uncut tendon]

Not in a discord channel, where your have even proved you cant read english because it is clearly stated that such messages as yours belong in #instructions , not in here

[uncut tendon]

Apparently not

[uncut tendon]

And who are you?

[manic mantle]

My intention was only to share my experience regarding the contract role you mentioned.

[uncut tendon]

There is no contract, I invented it to teach you why you dont search for a serious job on discord

[manic mantle]

What was that???

[uncut tendon]

I lied?

No way you search for serious job on a platform as discord

Someone with the slightest knowledge of internet would have smelled something is wrong right away

Get on LinkedIn

Or on jobsites made specifically for programmers

[manic mantle]

i dont need to explain it you, who are you if you don't have any contract for me, why you are wasted my time, go get your life you lier

[uncut tendon]

And your resume is fake and sloppy. No proof of education, basic info lacks, like age and birthplace. No proof you worked for those companies

[manic mantle]

i have proof but you are hurry to block me

[uncut tendon]

Not even a picture so the employer doesnt even know what you look likr

<@&213101288538374145> again someone sliding into dms with weird intentions

When I look at your resume, I could estimate your age around 30 years old

No 30 year old acts and talks like this

If the resume is true

[uncut tendon]

<@&213101288538374145> ?

[oblique ice]

So you 2 is fight? 🤔

[uncut tendon]

He is an obvious scammer

Who slipped in my dms and just gave me a faked resume

Why is no mod there

5 are online but lowkey skipping worktime

[granite brook]

@uncut tendon scammer or not, I don't think you should be on such a high horse here.

There are countless job opportunities on this and other Discord Servers and no one cares about Anime PFPs.

If you think a user is a bot or a scammer, simply report their message via our Discord Bot (right click the message, go to Apps and then report the message).

[granite brook]

Also, what are you on about? Work time? This is our free time.

[uncut tendon]

In all respect, I think sending it to the bot is equal to sending it to the trash folder

[granite brook]

What a weird thing to think.

[uncut tendon]

Thats the most IT way to think. As if the automatic assistant does anything except thanking for filing a report

[woeful iron]

it alerts the mods

much like you did

[granite brook]

Reported messages go into an internal #user-reports channel and get processed by us as soon as we have time.

[chilly sundial]

I mean sure it achieves the same goal, but it does prevent a flame war breaking out because it's hidden from the channel

[uncut tendon]

Oh I thought it was truly fully automatic

[granite brook]

No..

[uncut tendon]

But it just redirects the message

[granite brook]

So please, report the messages via the Apps menu by right-clicking a message in the future.

[woeful iron]

oh damn, the bots already increased from teaching 30k profit to 100k profit. Soon they'll be able to make me a billionaire

[uncut tendon]

I am stunned by the cool feature and whatever is going on with your internet . You really got vip internet

[granite brook]

Where do you see VIP internet?

[chilly sundial]

i wonder if the other half of bots have found a new celebrity billionaire to focus on

[uncut tendon]

Thats 2 bars, I never saw this before

You have 2 sim cards?

[granite brook]

The two things at the top of my phone screen are two SIM cards with voice over IP/WiFi enabled, so calls go over the internet if available.

[granite brook]

Yeah, dual sim capable phone.

[chilly sundial]

eh, VoIP, VIP, close enough

[uncut tendon]

I mean, this is premium

[granite brook]

One is private sim, one is company.

[uncut tendon]

Thats actually a cool feature

So you dont need 2 phones

[granite brook]

Yeah, unless you have shitty Internet and your phone call still tries to go over it and breaks half apart due to package loss :(

Ah, yeah that too.

[chilly sundial]

another downside is a lot of phones now seem to treat sim2 as an optional sd card, so it's either sim + sd, or 2 sims D:

[granite brook]

Steam and Epic Games, as well as other services, enforce phone numbers by now. So had to get one for the company. And didn't want to bother having a second phone to carry around.

[woeful iron]

introducing: e-sims

[granite brook]

Does that come with tons of expensive dlcs?

[woeful iron]

yeah, you even have to pay a subscription

our work uses e-sims, even though our work phones have sim slots

I guess it's just easier to manage

[uncut tendon]

I would hate it

Getting constantly called by my boss

[uncut tendon]

Have a nice day, sorry for be annoying

[woeful iron]

I've had 0 work related calls in the 5 years I've been here lol

ok except that one time I was meeting up with a colleague and he was lost on where to go

[void gust]

There is no AI movie like that. It was just an idea. 😆

[uncut tendon]

We make it bruv

[sharp nova]

I have an interview later this week for an editor programmer internship at Guerrilla. Any idea what kind of questions I can expect?

[silver axle]

damn cool man. You will get to use the decima engine which is amazing

really awesome engine

[sharp nova]

Well, if I end up getting selected😬

[silver axle]

wish u best of luck

[void gust]

But do you have 75 years of experience in FORTRAN? Just kidding, best of luck to you!

[sly bay]

Hey! I kinda need some advices regarding career and where to go

I'm in a position where my current job as a generalist programmer is very comfortable (working with Unreal and UGC), but it also made my career very stagnated (8 years in the industry), I need and want more challenges - to find more stuff to solve and problems to find solutions
I think my current portfolio/skillset are leading me to a Gameplay Programmer position, but I'd say I'm a 'Mid' (in terms of skill), BUT for the most part, the jobs require a Senior skillset

Now, I know that the general answer for a better portfolio/skillset is "go and do it", but is there something else I'm missing? I've applying and been to 2 specific interviews already that seemed to me as they were going well, but then I was rejected soon after

What am I missing in this? What's the next step to land on a job that'll get me further? I've come to think about moving over to other fields but not sure where to either

[woeful iron]

maybe an ignorant question, but what does a gameplay programmer do that's so different from a generalist programmer?

like what is more general than gameplay

[winged dragon]

is it worth trying to get a job in the 3D field today? It feels like impossible to land a job with 300 applicants for mostly senior positions

[woeful iron]

worth depends on your personal valuation

do you want to work in 3D

then I guess it's worth it

[winged dragon]

you might want to work in 3D , but if you cannot land a job for months or years then it becomes pointless

to outcompete 300 applicants, as a beginner or an entry level is almost impossible

then after a few years of trying, you get hired by a miracle, work for a few months and gat laid off 😂

not funny tbh

[void gust]

You might have to just get a regular job until you find a 3D job.

[spice dagger]

Id expect a generalist to be a jack of all trades type. A Gameplay programmer would have more specialized knowledge.

[sly bay]

pretty much that, I know a lot of stuff, but don't specialize in anything special

[wraith mortar]

Gameplay engineer is a generalist programming role in games
A specialization is, in my case, technical animation, or some specific area of gameplay engineering that you often get hired because you're good at (e.g. inventory systems)

[wraith mortar]

It was extremely competitive when I started in ~2013 as a 3D artist in film
2025 as a 3D artist in games is nightmare difficulty even compared to that

[sly bay]

that makes sense, I never thought about it, but yeah

well, I take it I continue as a generalist programmer rebranded as Gameplay Programmer then?

tbf, now that you mentioned it, some companies do request a specific type of role (UI Programmer, Build Programmer, or animation, as you mentioned)

[wraith mortar]

You should use industry titles
Gameplay Engineer

I made that mistake early on too

It is a very difficult time to find another job though

The interviews that didn't pan out is likely due to the competition, ideal candidates they don't expect to apply at the pay grade, project level, etc

It's just conjecture though

[sly bay]

I'll update everywhere to use that, it sounds way better than Generalist programmer in my resumé, ngl

[sly bay]

(not) good to know that I'm not the only one, but it does seem like every area is going somewhat badly, and since games section was never a very good one...

[wraith mortar]

Even if your job is boring, which does suck, the stability is probably worthwhile

[sly bay]

definitely, and I know that it sounds like I'm complaining with a full plate, which extra sucks

[wraith mortar]

Nope it's pretty normal to improve your situation

[spice dagger]

Sucky jobs can open doors to new opportunities, so they aren't entirely a bad idea.

[oblique ice]

is it okay if you could explain more about that part of Sucky jobs can open doors to new opportunities? is just want to understand

[wraith mortar]

It puts experience on your CV and can result in networking that can lead to the next role. I'm not the person who said it tho

[oblique ice]

i see, thank you for explaining 👍

[snow pendant]

I mean this in the nicest way possible but the amount of people on here that can not read a listing is extremely disappointing

[hallow condor]

Yes but then when we do read it, the listings here:

🙃

[smoky beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-senya-gif-26024901

[hallow condor]

Oh wow, I actually did not know before but that IS your posting 😄 I did not even check before writing that. That makes it a lot more amusing.

[strange plinth]

no self promo here

[snow pendant]

Clearly that was meant to be UE and PBR workflow in general, but go off queen.

[ivory echo]

Clearly the job poster should also be able to read their own listing and make the necessary corrections before publishing it.

[smoky beacon]

Something tells me they used chatgpt to generate said “job” post.

[hallow condor]

Yep, imagine complaining about people not being able to read but then not being able to properly phrase. Clearly others can read and see the failures in the description 🙃

[snow pendant]

LOL

[snow pendant]

Clearly the overall experience was the point

[ivory echo]

Looks like you might have missed my point, Daiguren pretty much spelled it out

[snow pendant]

So did you. Have a nice day.

[ivory echo]

lol

[oblique ice]

wow fighting?

[wraith mortar]

I mean it is quite obvious that it means UE4/UE5

[void gust]

It's obvious that the job poster can't read. That is extremely disappointing.

"You don't have 5+ years of experience in a technology that only existed for 3 years?! How dare you!"

[hallow condor]

While ironically complaining about people not being able to read...

[lucid dagger]

I just don't understand. He clearly made a mistake, maybe a honest one. The decent reaction would be : "huh, yeah, haha, my bad"
But no, starts so be offensive and tries to shift the blame.

at least we know what kind of gig it could be

[wraith mortar]

I mean I'm not taking a stance in anyone's favour
But I would not think twice about something that says x years in UE5 and would only ever assume that it includes UE4
That part isn't an issue at all

For me it counts a lot more against them that they engaged in the discourse here

[ivory echo]

True under normally circumstances, but the main issue here was hypocritical commenting on the inability of job applicants to read, while defending poster’s errors as “well it’s obvious what that meant”

Definitely makes it worthwhile avoiding employment with the party in question

[void gust]

⬆️That's what I mean.

[empty zealot]

Hi, does anyone happen to know of programming/software engineer or ideally game dev internships in france?
or around france

[grave cove]

See #instructions for posting to the appropriate job boards

[craggy terrace]

Okay thanks brother

[lucid dagger]

Check that at virtuos:

https://fa-exhj-saasfaprod1.fa.ocs.oraclecloud.com/hcmUI/CandidateExperience/en/sites/CX_1/jobs/preview/1302/?location=France&locationId=300000000466273&locationLevel=country&mode=job-location

jesus, what a beautiful url :D

[winged dragon]

man I've been unemployed for months. I'm honestly thinking about leaving the industry soon

this feels like a waste of time

[low crystal]

Where would you pivot to?

[snow pendant]

Thank you!

[snow pendant]

Saying

“Must have 5+ years of UE(4)5 experience”

And having people DM me when I specifically said to email

Are two different things.

But go off queen

[lucid dagger]

I feel you, I was in the same situation couple of months ago

[winged dragon]

this actually made me feel despressed and sad tbh. Spent 4 years in university learning this, then another few working as a 3d generalist

and now I can't even find a job for months

not even considering, that in my country a junior 3d artist makes the same or less than a food delivery guy or a bartender

and each remote position gets 300+ applicants or wants you to be a senior

how the fuck is this even possible to work in this industry

something is very wrong and I don't know what it is

all my friends have stable jobs and high income, while I'm struggling with this game and 3D shit

[low crystal]

Maybe try some stuff on the jobs page to hold you over?

[ivory echo]

Sometimes you need to just do what keeps you afloat, at least for a while.

[woeful iron]

like swim

[earnest flower]

I feel that. I've had a similar experience, and I have a decade of experience. I just made a video summing this past year up on this very topic;

https://youtu.be/yzlYn5cxkqw

[uncut seal]

I'm heavily considering switching my career to graphics programming, everything I've heard of working as a game dev is too many work hours and very underpaid and hard to get into. I just want the money as well. Anyone thinking otherwise of the job market for game devs?

[low crystal]

I think the scariest part is that there is people with tons of experience struggling so a beginner or novice like me has like 0 chance lmao

[smoky beacon]

You guys need to shift away from this mindset of “how will I get the $xxk/year job” to something a lot more agile for now and probably in the long run. AI will enable smaller teams to punch higher up on the game scale and that means team sizes will diminish.

Either build something for yourself, find a smaller studio to work at for less pay, or get out.

Or become top 10% in your speciality.

Maybe even 5% to reach for the $xxxk/year jobs.

[leaden inlet]

for real, everything wants people to have way more years than is needed

No one does long term thinking anymore!

[lucid dagger]

Everyone should have a plan b, meanwhile keep trying

[smoky beacon]

It is long term thinking. They have to balance cost of hiring each person.

Say I hire 1 person. That person needs to eat/pay rent. Lets say thats $2500 a month.

Why should I pay two months for someone who “maybe” can do the job for $5000 when I can find someone who can 100% in 1 month complete the job for $2500?

[leaden inlet]

Well for cases like that, yes, but even permanent jobs

[smoky beacon]

Permanent jobs aren’t real/coming back.

I’ve never seen a permanent job tbf.

[leaden inlet]

oof

[smoky beacon]

You really have to prove your worth in an inflationary environment.

[spice dagger]

There is also something to be said for applying for roles that you think you dont quite meet the mark.

You have to remember, that whats on a job listing is what the employer would like to find.

They know that they arent necessarily going to find that person

So if you tick most of the boxes for whats in the job listing, still make an application.

You might be surprised to find that an employer is willing to sacrifice experience in some areas, just to get someone hired who can do the job with the experience they have in the other areas.

And that goes for things listed in a "Required" section.

If they list 5 key areas as requirements, but you feel that you only meet 3 or 4. Apply anyway.

The important thing is that you be honest and truthful.

Not just with the employers, but with yourself.

Dont undersell yourself, dont oversell yourself.

[leaden inlet]

A lot of it is automated though, automatically rejecting you if you don't already have the requirements met. I tend to still shoot for (non game making) jobs when i don't fit everything but nope

[spice dagger]

Sure, I could see companies that outsource or large AAA's doing that.

I suppose it depends on which end of the scale you want to work in.

[leaden inlet]

yeah, would have to find a long term in game industry in the first place for me to say if its the same XD

[spice dagger]

Well I can tell you right now that places I've worked have done inhouse screening that was not automated.

[void gust]

An Amazon warehouse employee makes more money than that.

Not to be rude, or insult anyone's dreams here, but I just don't see the appeal of working in the game industry anymore unless it's your own game. If it's true that AI is the reason to layoff people then just realize that you can also use that AI in your game. It's helped me make certain things quicker. It wouldn't surprise me if, with the help of AI, you could make your own version of Resident Evil 4 (2005) and it might even sell well.

[spice dagger]

Honestly, if you are purely looking to get into the game industry for money. You are making a mistake.

You can make way better money as an employee in other industries that has overlapping/the same skill requirements