career-chat

[woeful iron]

worst that can happen is they say no

and maybe they'll just tell you would you be willing to do X, and then you can decide whether that's enough for you

[silk token]

That's fair, and right now it's an old friend I'm discussing with

If I can't haggle with him, who will I be able to haggle with

[woeful iron]

I hope he's not a very good friend

doing business with friends can be a tricky situation

[silk token]

Trying to think of the term

Fellow traveler?

Someone who's been in my orbit through the years, but not a close friend

Not the first time doing business with him

[round radish]

Friends are the worst people to haggle with because you don't want to fleece them.

With a regular employer, you really want as much as you can get.

[woeful iron]

and more!

[shut token]

That's why you only make friends with people are are fleeceable 🧠

[chilly sundial]

So sheep?

Sounds lonely, I don't know of many sheep that can hop on Helldivers 2

[shut token]

My only feedback is to read up on #rules and don't advertise in here, but instead #1054845218723209226

[uncut kraken]

What site do you use for object blueprints?

[tough remnant]

hey folks,
Anyone knows companies hiring Solutions Architects in domains that are adjacent to game development?

[woeful iron]

what do you mean?

[uncut kraken]

Like when modeling a car, you can bring in a car blueprint to better model it accurately

[round radish]

Not really #career-chat...

[cedar dirge]

wish i had been told this 2 years ago 😅

[sage iron]

Is it ok to put the salary/money offered when posting a job opportunity? This used to be mandatory but no one seems to be doing this anymore in the Job Board.

[modern relic]

Pretty sure it's because most places will try to negotiate the salary based on your experience and skills to try and lowball you. This is why it's important to know what the going rate is in that area and make sure you don't let them underpay you

[lilac walrus]

in some parts of the world it's a legal requirement to post salary range

worth bearing in mind if you're willing to hire remote workers who might be in those places

[soft sun]

Hi

[uncut kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/m4kktruck-getintoitya-hasbulla-gif-2415743079225801183

[ancient flame]

Hey small team people, what cloud / file sharing system do you use?

[steady jasper]

just finished college, lowkey being offered a contract job at a massive game dev company...what should i look out for with these contract positions? it would be my first job in the games industry

[brave forge]

Overreaching IP clauses like trying to claim rights over stuff you develop outside of work

[steady jasper]

oh fr? like if i work on my own projects for my portfolio, the company will try to claim?

[brave forge]

Sometimes

I've seen some pretty overreaching contracts

[steady jasper]

damn

this company really wants me, like heavily, to the point where they're willing to exepedite things for me if possible

[brave forge]

They don't usually enforce them, but on the same token I don't wanna sign them and find out. Usually you mention it and they add a small amendment on your contract like "for the avoidance of doubt x does not mean personal projects" or some thing to that effect

[brave forge]

Just read your contract. Most of the time they send it through ahead of time. Worst case they give it to you on your first day to sign and just say "I'll take this home and read it tonight"

Depends how quick the contract moves

[steady jasper]

got it

it seems like for this position it would be 12 months

but i'm very excited, it means i would be moving down south to LA and everything

[chilly sundial]

if you're on about for the project, there's only 1 right answer: a source control software, like git, or perforce

[limpid wharf]

Good advice 👍

[finite knoll]

I would interpret that as currently having authorisation to work in the country, ie. You have a valid visa to work

Some companies are more willing to sponsor than others

[daring sleet]

This has been bothering me for a while.
If I don't have enough experience, what options do I have apart from continuing in my current job for a few more years.
Is it possible to augment my portfolio with personal projects so well that it might just qualify me for a Visa.
Because that's what I'm trying to do right now, and it seems I am beating a dead horse.
I feel helpless in my situation and would really appreciate some advice.

[ancient flame]

Just to clarify, you make this suggestion for sharing files / assets between the entire team? My original thought was something along the lines of OneDrive. I'm not too familiar with source control software, so I wanna make sure we're on the same page.

[finite knoll]

I'm not too familiar with source control software
oh dear

a necessary skill as a professional

there's is no other appropriate method than using source control to share a project. OneDrive is incredibly insufficient

[modern relic]

Building on what sswires said, there are lots of free version control softwares like git, svn and perforce that I would strongly recommend downloading a local copy and figuring out how to use it. Git and svn will likely have the best resources for learning and perforce.. Has some official videos and stuff but they aren't great

[ancient flame]

Thanks yall. I gotta start somewhere. I'm learning how the ins and outs of development as fast as possible and I'm the only one with a project management background in my team so I'll likely be around again to ask questions that pertain to this industry.

[dusky fable]

No. You need enough professional experience to get a studio to sponsor you for a visa.

[ivory echo]

and you can't get enough professional xp if you can't get a studio to hire you in that role. pretty much every industry these days

[oblique ice]

Huh? What do you mean? Got see people no experience can still get hired and obtain the visa 🤨

[ivory echo]

not really a career question, but we have a job board here if you want to take quotes from freelancers, see #instructions

[granite brook]

@oak bramble As pointed out by Neo, please check #instructions on how to post on our Job Board.

[pulsar turret]

Hey, I saw this message, I'm curious about what kind of tech demos it could be: the scope, the usefulness, how it should be showcased etc. Unreal is all over the place in term of functionalities, so I'm not sure if the demo should show all-round skill in the editor, or if it should be hyperfocused on some aspects. I guess both are valid depending on the studio and job you aim for... ? Truth is, I don't want to specialize. If you have some quick examples off the top of your head it could be nice to know.

[chilly sundial]

You'll have to specialise unless you want to work exclusively at small studios

[daring sleet]

How much is enough ? 🤔

[daring sleet]

Some AAA studios set a requirement of X amount of AAA exp to get a job.
How the hell am I supposed to get that AAA exp if I can't get a job because I don't have AAA exp... 🙃

[round radish]

Some AAA studios

[daring sleet]

I guess that makes sense. We rely on other AAA studios that don't have such a requirement.

In a few years they'll be demanding Quadruple A experience.

[round radish]

Something like that.

Or you work in a junior position and work your way up. Or work in a related job and say "this is my experience, it's highly relevant".

You have to know too that job requirements aren't usually requirements.

[woeful iron]

~~just make your own AAA studio 🧠 ~~

[round radish]

They're "this is my perfect candidate, please be them"

There's no harm in overreaching a little too. Just don't apply for senior positions if this is your first week with unreal, you know?

[ivory echo]

Then sell to Microsoft

[runic grail]

U can use this same logic for most jobs tbh

“We want you to have experience before applying” - but if you don’t hire me how do I get that experience lol

I think programming is unique in that you can build something on your own to show what you’re capable of, whereas a lot of other jobs u can’t really do that

So I’d say… make something then show it off

[pulsar turret]

Sure. But right off the bat ?
Do you guys have any actual example of a portfolio that got someone into an entry job ?

[dusky fable]

You want to focus on technically impressive systems. If you are interested in gameplay, you'll want to make things for design to use. What that is depends entirely on what you are interested in. That might be a camera system with states and transitions that design can use and tune. Or a quest system that design could use to create 1000 quests with. Or an AI influence map.

[dusky fable]

Enough to be senior level

[pulsar turret]

Thanks, I see. So it's a very tiny scope but very well executed. It clarifies things !

This is the kind of thing I never saw in jobs offerings

[soft sun]

Smart

[leaden gull]

Hello 👋 please making an enquiry where I could apply to study game development for unreal specifically

[ivory echo]

Depends on your country

[dusky fable]

I would not consider it to be "very tiny in scope". You want to make it an actual system that is production ready. Not something simple that would be in a solo game. Think more depth than breadth.

[woeful iron]

game development is wider than just the engine you use though

especially at the basics level

if you know game dev in unity, transitioning into unreal is quite easy imo (next to the difficulty of the programming language)

but as beginner I think the concepts and workings are more important than engine specifics

[pulsar turret]

Sounds like making a usable plugin, basically

[chilly sundial]

Essentially, yes. Still good to specialise though. If you want a gameplay programming role, make some a tech demo of a gameplay mechanic with a mind to how designers would use it.

[dusky fable]

Not necessarily

[small marsh]

does doing p*rn games affect my employability ?

[woeful iron]

yes

[small marsh]

how and why

[woeful iron]

it's just bad association

same if you have a portfolio full of crypto games

[fervent palm]

Why would you even consider that and why would you even put that on you’re portfolio as well come on be serious about working in the game industry clearly that isn’t going to look like a good impression on employers

[chilly sundial]

the same reason acting in that industry won't do you any favours in hollywood.
It's unprofessional. There's a reason it's called "Not Safe For Work".

I also doubt such games would be mechanically as impressive, as say, Call of Duty, or Horizon

[rapid iron]

Is there a way to share multiple Fiverr services I offer on the self advertisement channel? I currently shared a new gig I opened but I also have an older gig I was hoping to advertise for more clients.

[plucky hatch]

Im confused idk what to do can someone help me find out my destiny please? Im lost like a rat in the back rooms

[ivory echo]

Your destiny is not something you find, it’s something you make

[woeful iron]

confused about what?

[green oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/seinfeld-uncle-leo-old-man-confused-gif-13910619280020003469

[plucky hatch]

Everything man idk what to do what to learn and im entering college

[woeful iron]

How are we supposed to help though

We don’t know you

[oblique ice]

how many years of study at college? are you do undergraduate?

[woeful iron]

what do you want to do as career, what are you passionate about, what are your interests? @plucky hatch

[plucky hatch]

I mean idk. U know the usual in asian household. Shit parents doesnt care about anything but pride. I wanna like make enough to retire to costa rica buy a house for 400k a regular suv for like 20k and just die i dont wnna do nothing Chevy i just wanna die peacefully

[woeful iron]

I don't know anything about asian households tbh

but what do you like doing

what do you do in your free time?

[plucky hatch]

I dont really have free time

[woeful iron]

so what do you do all day?

hobbies forced by your parents?

[plucky hatch]

When i do i try to learn how to make trade n stuff as thats how a lot of people get rich

[plucky hatch]

None they just the usual study till you die parents

[woeful iron]

by trade you mean stocks and such?

[plucky hatch]

Study then on my free time try to learn to trade

[plucky hatch]

Anything that can make me 2 mil before 30

[woeful iron]

well good luck

[plucky hatch]

Yes stcks

[woeful iron]

just know that the chances of that happning are close to 0

seems like your only motivation is money

maybe you'de like to do finance, sales or real estate or something

idk

I'm not the sigma grindset kinda guy

[plucky hatch]

My target is to live and die peacefully

[plucky hatch]

Honestly

[woeful iron]

I don't know if I can help you any further since I have a very different world view so I have no experience to attain what you want

[plucky hatch]

My motivation is to help a “girl” that i met i wanna give her a better life.

[plucky hatch]

U suggest anything?

[woeful iron]

I did

[plucky hatch]

O k sir

Have a great day

[green oyster]

Why would you need 2 millions for that?

[ivory echo]

Why is girl in quotation marks? 😀

[woeful iron]

maybe they're straight instead

[round radish]

Maybe they're somebody pretending to be a girl online to scam people out of money?

[dusky fable]

What does that have to do with a career in game dev?

[ivory echo]

It’s about her career, helping her become a doctor 😀

[plucky hatch]

To disappear completely and get a new identity

[plucky hatch]

Honestly thats where im confused i like developing and working on my games but my parents dont

But i cant do that if i stay here

[ivory echo]

<<Welp>> is right

[marsh karma]

Read bit earlier that adult games don't look good on resume. And I read reasoning but why not just but positive feedback etc. Of said adult game to your portfolio which is what artists do of their nsfw art

[green oyster]

I dont see how it's a problem. How can it be unprofessional if it's another job you do for another product

[dusky fable]

You are highly unlikely to get rich off of making your games. It can be a good career if you work at a studio, but it takes a long time to get to senior level when the pay isn't terrible.

[marsh karma]

Depends on what nation you work in. Example in Finland senior position is 3kmonth instead of 2kmonth both are decent but not necessarily wage enough to upkeep family alone

[dusky fable]

Because porn has a large stigma against it. They are also often incredibly sexist, which will make you look bad for a lot of teams.

[marsh karma]

That's still discrimination on matter of person if you don't consider it as merit

[dusky fable]

Discrimination of whom?

[marsh karma]

On matters of person

[dusky fable]

What does that even mean?

[green oyster]

There should be a disconnect between the studios and the type of games they do

[marsh karma]

Would concerns of person be more understandable

[dusky fable]

No. That's not a protected class.

[green oyster]

And it sounds like an antiquated/naive perception when there are actual sexist studios with exposed scandals and poor treatment of employees

[marsh karma]

Even opinion is protected against discrimination

[mint skiff]

it is not

[dusky fable]

Which is also a concern when hiring. There's no either/or.

[marsh karma]

I can cite constitution

Or should I refrain from doing so as it wouldn't be American constitution

[dusky fable]

I would really like to see a law that actually protects someone who treats a marginalized group poorly over the marginalized group when it comes to employment.

The US has freedom of speech, but that's only for being arrested.

[marsh karma]

https://ym.fi/en/non-discrimination-and-equality#:~:text=According to section 6 of,reason that concerns his or

So long that person doesn't discriminate and only hold negative opinions of marginalized group they are protected

[dusky fable]

So, not actually protects someone from not being hired for being sexist.

You seem to not understand that something that is a concern for a team is not an automatic rejection.

[marsh karma]

But assumption on sexism is prejudice

And decision made on that assumption is discriminative

[dusky fable]

It's actually not.

If you aren't able to work with and respect certain people on the team, you make a problematic culture.

[marsh karma]

You can treat others in respectable manner Even if you have negative opinions of them

[marsh karma]

Apologies earlier I am not certain which between prejudice and preconception I should use as here they are unified concept

[dusky fable]

Hard disagree. This isn't about just not liking someone.

[marsh karma]

Agree to disagree

[dusky fable]

No. You are getting blocked for justifying sexism.

[marsh karma]

I am upholding value for treating people equally

[plucky hatch]

igh

[ivory echo]

Make sure you do that while you’re waiting in the unemployment line

Regardless, if you want to make adult stuff, no one’s stopping you. Not exactly a career per se but go nuts, just don’t expect to get validation for it

[marsh karma]

that line exists already to 1/3rd of workforce

[ivory echo]

True but at least they get a leg up with untainted resumes

[marsh karma]

that's same as saying woman who works in bar doesn't deserve get any other job because they're "fun girl"

[ivory echo]

No, it’s kinda like saying putting stripper on your resume doesn’t look good

Regardless of gender

[marsh karma]

being a stripper i think is universally irrelevant work experience. and for that reason it shouldn't be on resume

but that's me purely of not knowing anything of strippers.

if you were pole dancer sure you could put it on resume when applying as gymnastic teacher

and as far resumes go. porn game is still better than empty

as porn game would show proof you can finish project

[ivory echo]

You’re missing the point but since you’ve been missing it for the last 3h or so, I think it’s safe to say this argument is moot. Clearly, you’ve made up your mind about joining the adult industry or you’re already in it and think you’ll get somewhere with it. Sadly, just because you feel the world should work in a certain way, doesn’t mean it does or ever will.

There’s always Reddit if you want to convince people to rally to your cause 😀

[marsh karma]

nah don't need as local igda on the same line

to the decree there is actual job listing on igda's servers for adult game

[woeful iron]

not be mean or anything, but from everything you've said in this chat so far I think you could benefit from talking to a mental health professional

[plucky hatch]

😭

[woeful iron]

I just get the feeling that you feel stuck and unhappy in your current situation and lack purpose and motivation because of it, but I'm not a doctor so idk ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-jensen-ackles-dean-winchester-the-cw-supernatural-gif-10622973

[plucky hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/no-ryan-gosling-cereal-gif-14544311926282326171

[small marsh]

wtf does Experience in low-level optimizations means?

[brave forge]

C++ optimisations involving instruction level and cache usage optimisation

Or similar shader levels optimisations

Depends on context. But basically closer to the metal optimisation

[small marsh]

thanks boris, i understand. do you also know wtf Experience in core subsystems means?

[woeful iron]

in relation to unreal subsystems are a thing https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/ProgrammingAndScripting/Subsystems/

if not related to unreal idk

[round radish]

I think there's a no name and shame policy.

[dull wagon]

what if the person is an actual scammer?

its not name shamming if you have proof.

dont let him have leeway here please.

[dull wagon]

but scamming is okay?

[round radish]

I don't make the policies.

[dull wagon]

dont help a scammer.

use your brain.

he just tried to scam ME.

so i know what im talking about.

im warning people.

[red stump]

Probably better to contact a mod then to post in a public channel

[dull wagon]

stop helping him

he not just in this server

hes in a lot of servers.

one more thing the worst part is hes going after LGBT people because the servers that he is in are all LGBT game dev servers so he has a specific target in mind too.

dont trust him.

i did not get the impression he was actually lgbt but thats my 2 cents.

[round radish]

Or that's just the servers he shares with you...

[dull wagon]

he made a fake website just to trick me which he deleted right afterwards,

if he was legit then why would he do that?

[woeful iron]

good thing I don't know how to make websites

[wary idol]

@dull wagonPublic shaming is against the server rules
I forwarded it to the rest of the mods tho

You should contact a mod instead of posting it here in the future

[dull wagon]

is he still in the server?

[tiny palm]

Just popping by to say, apply to 5 more jobs! You can do it!

[woeful iron]

But I already have a job 🤔

[autumn prairie]

You never have enough jobs!

[golden matrix]

-+

[small marsh]

wtf does Current generation console experience would be our first choice means? publishing your games to xbox or knowing the hardware of the console?

[chilly sundial]

It means having experience developing for PS5/Xbox Series X/ Nintendo Switch

[chilly sundial]

Lol, if you're going to use chatgpt to advertise, then a) post it in the right channel and b) remove the response header

[woeful iron]

I already told him when he sent me this in unsollicited DM, never learns

[chilly sundial]

What better way to get people to pay you: annoy the shit out of them

[plucky hatch]

Am so sorry sir

[granite fossil]

@plucky hatch please note that #career-chat is not a channel to showcase your capabilities. We have a job board for that. You can post it there.

[plucky hatch]

okay

[round radish]

That's actually a thing in some countries. You can pay somebody to follow somebody around and shame/annoy them into repaying a debt.

It's illegal in others

[north salmon]

@granite fossil hello mate can you remove my post in #hire-a-freelancer channel? i can't find it myself

[brave forge]

You can hire fake paparazzi for pranks here. Hire the pack for an hour or 2 lol

[green oyster]

Whats up charlieGPT

[fervent palm]

Why have you used chatGPT to write this @tired ginkgo 🤦🏼‍♂️

[tired ginkgo]

Because it just make you elaborate yourself in a more clear tone that's why. Moreover, it making such task automated so why not utilize this to save time for stuff

[tired ginkgo]

I'm real good, how are you @green oyster let's have a quick chat

[granite brook]

@tired ginkgo If only you would have used the saved time to read our id:guide , especially the Server Rules, and even more specific Rule No 8. Or even just the channel description of this very channel.

Please read #instructions on how to post onto our Job Board.

[ivory echo]

Soon, humans will need GPT crutches for basic reading comprehension 😀

[daring sleet]

For a person who doesn't speak English as their first language, ChatGPT is a life-saver.
I often use it to improve my emails, or formal messages and learn grammar.

I don't use it for work though. It confidently spits out garbage solutions.

[woeful iron]

alternatively, you could learn english

but it's a tool

[shut token]

https://tenor.com/bJMkF.gif

[daring sleet]

I do know English well enough and use it on a daily basis.
However I am not very good at writing formal text, punctuation, and some times I use some phrases or words incorrectly.

[round radish]

Using a word processor will fix that.

I use chat gpt for a fantastic purposes: to annoy my friends!

I'm playing a bard and I ask it to write stanzas about what's happening in the game and occasionally annoy them with a song! (spoken word, unfortunately)

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/jaskier-dandelion-singing-lute-bard-gif-15952027

[round radish]

100%

[chilly sundial]

please tell me you use bard to write your stanzas

[round radish]

Nope. Just chatgpt.

It does pretty well.

[woeful iron]

bard is dead, long live gemini

[ivory echo]

Long live Stadia and Google Glass… oh wait

[oblique ice]

Long Live developer

[woeful seal]

long live the revolution

[woeful iron]

which one

[woeful seal]

the one in my head

idk the voices keep saying it

[sullen ridge]

Where do I post job posting?

[mint skiff]

#instructions

[prime helm]

If you were to interview someone for a senior UE5 UI engineer position, what would you expect them to know?

[ivory echo]

Everything

[prime helm]

Damn. Well I'll just see myself out

[woeful iron]

I would think by the time you qualify for senior you would know what is expected of a senior

[prime helm]

Well its a career change. Going from unrelated C++ development to game development

[ivory echo]

Then you prly can’t go straight into a senior game dev position

[prime helm]

Heh yeah I mean I figured, but that's why I was asking about what they're expected to know so that I could focus on those in the meantime.

Figured this would be a good place to ask but I'll find more helpful forum. Thanks though 🙂

[dusky fable]

You need to know C++ in depth, slate, UMG and 3rd party options like Coherent. You need significant experience working with artists and designers, especially as a Senior. You also need to be able to mentor lower levels.

You'll unlikely get hired as a senior without previous game experience.

Salaries are mostly dependent on your location. You should be able to do research for junior level pay in your area on sites like Glassdoor.

The engine doesn't matter at all. The only things that matter is the role, which you didn't specify, seniority and location. Researching the pay in other countries only helps if you are going to move to that country.

Well you need to pick a role and get really good at it

[round radish]

Even with UMG, you can use a lot of c++.

Making new base classes, custom slate implementations, etc.

c++ is a tool that helps you fulfill a role, same as bp is. You won't get hired for "doing c++". You'll get hired because you can "use c++ to do X"

Unless it's a super junior role.

[dusky fable]

Programmer is a role that primarily uses C++

What doesn't make any sense?

[prime helm]

I'm good on C++, and have tons of experience working with designers and artists just not for games. I agree though senior is unlikely, I'd rather be mid anyway till I get comfortable. I'll look at Coherent, never heard of that. Thanks! 🙏

[ivory echo]

Bad analogy

Also, salaries can vary greatly depending on the country

[plucky hatch]

Hello guys, I wanted to get into animation and modelling, which software would y’all recommend?

[lilac walrus]

probably Blender, on account of it being free and open source

it has been getting more traction in the industry over the past few years too, which is good - but some studios will still use Max/Maya because their pipelines demand it (but this is slowly losing traction)

[plucky hatch]

Alr thank u man

[summer current]

Hey so i just graduated from my school it etc. I know some programming in bps made a few lil games + worked in a studio but i found it too easy since it was just interface and simple coding. What should i do ? Should i Learn c++ invest the time into it Should i try to find a job to improve the skills there ? or someone and work on a game together so we can communicate and improve our skills ? What did you guys do after high school Like I feel the opposite of burnt out from learning for 10h a day for the school and now i have nothing to do and i gotta do something I really want to get better at Bps/C++ which should i focus on I love and enjoy bps I am kinda scared of c++ but will it help me in the long run ? or will i rarely use it and should I learn more with bps or maybe other things in ue5 like simple animations etc. to be more of a generalist than just pure coding of anything?

[woeful iron]

depends what you want to achieve really

but just knowing bp isn't a hireable skill really

it is combined with game/level design mostly

if you wanna do "development", you will have to learn c++ at some point if you want to get a job

it's also useful outside of unreal

[open charm]

can you get hired because you can make blueprints do X?

or to rephrase that

if i made 7 elden ring tier games in one sandiwch of a game with blueprints only

than can i be hired by game dev companies?

[chilly sundial]

no, because you couldn't make those games with bp only

[open charm]

but i am

[round radish]

You can get hired for something like a tech artist or level designer because you can use blueprints to enhance that field of work.

[open charm]

so that doesnt make sense

lmao

[chilly sundial]

You physically cannot make something on the level of elden ring with bp only though. that's just a fact

[round radish]

But it's never "because I can do bp"

[open charm]

but im making the whole thing with blueprints D:
how i only get tech job

[open charm]

so its pretty much you can do stuff

i hire

not necessarily the tool your good at right?

[open charm]

ok buddy guess ill just tell my whole project that its not real

or something

lmao

[chilly sundial]

if you want to get hired for blueprints, you need a supplementary skill.

[woeful iron]

what kind of job do you expect?

[open charm]

idk to be honest

i just want games to be as amazing as they were in the 90s

but like in modern day

[woeful iron]

no one hires just a "bp developer"

[open charm]

since pixels wont cut it anymore

[woeful iron]

they hire designers, tech artists, programmers (c++, not bp)

[open charm]

theres so many systems and game mechanics and such cool fun ways to play games that really dont exist anymore

because games are becomign glorified bad movies

and most movies are bad

even the "good ones"

[woeful iron]

spoiler, modern games still use pixels

[open charm]

idk what job would be able to fix it

[open charm]

shhh dont tell the zoomers

itll break their brain

pixels in muh hyper realism game

https://tenor.com/view/crying-breakdown-meltdown-need-help-losing-it-gif-8941171

ive studied gaming the industry and the design and presentation of games for what feels like 2 decades clsoer to that really

and theres just an endless list of whats wrong with modern games compared to games today but most gamers wont even aknowledge them

because old game bad grahpics

but new game lets me see sweat on models booba

so flaws or issues clearly isnt real

idk what position would be able to start correcting this in the industry but it seems to me a sort of parrelel economy might be the only way to filter it out and make it painfully clear the difference between games like what we get today and games we used to be excited as heck to come home and play

where you can choose a path between games that make you excited like a child again to hit buttons or whatever we do all of the time today

[woeful iron]

there's plenty of good games these days tbh, both with good and shit graphics

[chilly sundial]

to start correcting it in the industry, you'd be looking at the head of a publishing company

[open charm]

you cant even make a game without someone lumping you in either indie or double AA

[woeful iron]

seem like you're just looking at CoD and FIFA and extrapolating to all

a lot of AAA games are pure live service shit yes

but the good games are still around

[open charm]

but when your slapped with those labels you get mashed together with endless shovel ware with like 2 gems per thousands of trash cans or your double AA which means your a piece of poo poo compared to triple aaaa by termnology alone

[shut token]

There are other games being made?

[open charm]

not just the cods or like halos or redfalls

but you can see this faltering at the foundational levels

[woeful iron]

the market is just a lot more saturated than in the old days

[open charm]

you can watch interviews of the idoelogy of people who made games in the atari to super famicon and how different it is today

[woeful iron]

which makes crap more common

and more obvious

[open charm]

one of endless examples

have you noticed how much npcs or characters monolgue or every little thing

[woeful iron]

again, I think you're looking at things too generally

[shut token]

There were plenty of stinkers in the old days as well. You just forget about them and only remember the good ones.

[open charm]

compared to how conversations and dialgoue was used in older games

[woeful iron]

you can make a great game, but there's other great games still being made

what you mean is a total paradigm shift in modern AAA game development

[open charm]

yeah im not saying great games arent being made today

[woeful iron]

which let's be honest, you won't achieve

[chilly sundial]

I mean sure, the mindset of developing for an emerging technology, versus an established one is different, but it isn't stopping good games being made.

[open charm]

but im saying you can just see the massive difference between games today and games prior

[woeful iron]

cause for that you would need to be a prolific AAA game developer and somehow have the rest go to shit

[open charm]

were trying to not even use the word games to describe games anymore

[woeful iron]

I don't think that's necessarily true

[open charm]

we started calling them art

and now their experiences

not games

[woeful iron]

you're comparing current garbage to the classics that stood the test of time

[open charm]

and the shift to move games from being games to experiences strengthens everyday

[woeful iron]

of course you won't remember the shit games from the 90s cause they just died out

[open charm]

i played many of them being poor and silly

[woeful iron]

so you think E.T. for atari is better than Destiny 2 for example?

[open charm]

but you can even look at the output and whats being output and legitimately cross compare with back than to now
i could bring up e.t

[round radish]

🌹🕶️

[open charm]

lol i was gonna say that

lmao

[chilly sundial]

You can look at FIFA and say the industry's gone to shit, but then the ET game existed. As Dieter said, there's just more shit than there was because there's more games.

[open charm]

everyone loves to point at E.T and say see games all bad back than too

[chilly sundial]

lol, we all went for et

[open charm]

but those are outliars that werent the standard

[woeful iron]

because it's a memorable shit game

[open charm]

if anyhting e.t was todays redfall

and it was so bad it killed the indsutry

[chilly sundial]

no one's saying all anything. These things have nuance

[woeful iron]

because you never heard of the failures cause gaming just wasn't that big

[open charm]

actually its even funnier

[woeful iron]

both shit and good games were made in the old days and modern times

[open charm]

because if you look at when gaming crashed back than its scary 1 to 1 with all of the reasons why people swear were in the middle of a gaming crash today

[woeful iron]

the shit is just more obvious today cause the industry is a lot bigger and it has a lot more money behind it

[open charm]

the infinite consoles coming out from randoms with no catagolgues E.T level failures, bloated budgets, and the lists go on

[chilly sundial]

Just because a lot of the big publishers went to shit because they're keeping large titles on life support while running out of ideas while still wanting maximum profits, it's not representative of the entire space, nor comparative to how it used to be.

[open charm]

shoddy broken games, tons of shovelware

[shut token]

And a lot more media

[round radish]

There's just a lot more games being made, so it's harder to find the good ones. But then there wasn't the internet, so it was hard to find the good ones back then too.

[open charm]

this is the stuff that happened when gaming crashed and were seeing it in real time with tons of lay offs today

we have tons of lay offfs back than

https://tenor.com/view/kto-kounotoritoken-kounotori-lbow-storkholders-gif-25676340

[woeful iron]

all I'm saying is you're not gonna change the industry with just one good game, cause good games are still being made

[open charm]

yes i agree

its why i said i feel like trying to turn the ship around wont work

because there so stuck in their ways

[woeful iron]

they're stuck in short term profit

[open charm]

a sort of seperation needs to possibly exist if gaming wants to get back to being the juggernat people felt it was back than, its larger than ever and profits are higher than ever but gamers are more dissatified and disinterested in gaming than ever

[chilly sundial]

I mean, more to the point, it's still working. Everyone complains about how shit Warzone is, or CoD, or Assassins creed, or FIFA, or Battlefield, yet they all still buy them and play them. Boom, millions on launch, game was a success, onto the next one.

[open charm]

which is what happened before gaming crashed in the 90s

[woeful iron]

because gaming industry has been commercialised a lot more than back in the day, so a lot of big companies chasing the money

[open charm]

because gamers dont really have a choice of high quality high budget games

if your fed moldy bread or nothing

most people sadly

take modly bread

[shut token]

What

[open charm]

because most people believe something is ebtter than nothing

[chilly sundial]

But the point is there isn't nothing

[open charm]

no matter how bad something is

[woeful iron]

there's good high budget games too

[open charm]

i agree

like octopath traveller

[chilly sundial]

Skipping the bad CoD game for a year, in an attempt to make the next one better isn't comparable to starving to death.

[woeful iron]

so you lied

[open charm]

fluffing amazing series

[open charm]

what did i lie about?

oh

i see what you did there

lmao

[woeful iron]

you contradict yourself

[open charm]

sort of yeah

im not saying high quality games dont exist

im saying what if yo uwanted asssassins creed

but not from ubisoft

[shut token]

Been skipping the bad CoD for over a decade now.

[open charm]

whos making that

[woeful iron]

then you don't want assassin's creed

[open charm]

if you wanted halo but not from the 304 guys

where can you find that

thats not the case

people want halo

[chilly sundial]

My streak would be there, but I caved for Cold War with no regrets. I had my fun in all of it's modes tbh.

[open charm]

but they dont like halo infinite

people want an arkane game

but they dont want redfall

[chilly sundial]

Only CoD I bought since CoD WW2 was Cold War. WW2 was an exception too

[open charm]

are you saying they dont want arkane because they dont like redfall

its not that black and white

i want a game like assassins creed 3 or 2 for example

but i get valhalla instead

[woeful iron]

don't buy it?

[open charm]

guess i just dont like assassins creed right ;d

thats silly

[woeful iron]

there's plenty of similar games tbh

[open charm]

again it goes back your not giving me the thing you gave me which was amazing

[shut token]

Win the lottery and then buy the IP and then do like they all do and beat the IP to death.

[open charm]

your feeding me dog crap and saying its just the way you remember

people wanted marvel vs capcom 2

but better

they got ultimate marvel vs capcom 3 and infinite

if you wanted a tag fighter of that grand scale you just werent getting one

[woeful iron]

now you're just talking franchise

[open charm]

no i mean gameplay style

not franchise

and other companies swooped in to take advantage of it

we got jump force but it was a broken mess

[shut token]

Obviously people wanted it - they bought the games and sequels.

[open charm]

the blaz blue cross tag

[open charm]

almost every game gets at least one sale

[chilly sundial]

The other problem is, you can't go back to making AC 3 though. People don't want those games anymore, that's why they died off. You take AC 3, add a new setting, a large open map, and modern game mechanics, and you get one of the new assassin's creed.

For me, the formula doesn't work, but I wouldn't be surprised if going back to how it was will also make it suffer.
So now, I just go without.

[open charm]

doesnt mean the majroity of the fanbase that buys games bought them

xD

[shut token]

If these games were not profitable, they wouldn't keep making them. Simple as that.

[open charm]

i bought octopath traveller 1 and 2

but most gamers didnt

and less bought 2

so they sold themselves off

[open charm]

thats what im literally saying

[shut token]

They are profitable though

[woeful iron]

so you want to make a game to lose money is what you're saying?

[shut token]

Thus people want them

[woeful iron]

idk if that's a valid career

[open charm]

most games end up losing money or the company goes under but gamers are silly happy

been that way since 80s if not sooner

look at the litteral graveyard of almost all franchises ever

[woeful iron]

that's just not sustainable my man

[open charm]

during te golden years esepcially

[chilly sundial]

The reason CoD isn't changing and is getting more greedy is because it works. You need the consumers to influence this, but they'll just keep complaining and consuming. A boycott never works to overhaul a game completely. Closest we got was helldiver's PSN linkage being reversed

[open charm]

thats exactly the pointing im trying to make since the beginning

i want to fix this

[woeful iron]

you can't say you want old AC, but then say a company should go under while making an old AC

cause who's gonna make it

[open charm]

but there has to be some way to prevent it to implode inwards

[chilly sundial]

If you want passion ventures, that's what the indie space is for

[woeful iron]

how tf you gonna fix what billions of people want?

[open charm]

one sec

groceries

[woeful iron]

how is it fixing anything

[chilly sundial]

It's the age old issue of a personal grievance being perceived as an industry wide problem

[woeful iron]

I feel like you're trying to project what you think is a good game to a whole industry, and blaming anything that diverges

[shut token]

Still though - screw Microsoft for shutting down HiFi Rush's studio

[open charm]

perfect exmaple of what im talking about

the industry creates amazing games that might not making infinite

most of the time they lose tons of money

but they make gamers happy

[chilly sundial]

I mean sure, you've got all of us that complain the Assassin's creeds not being the same, and CoD being a horribly monetized POS. But the fact is the majority of people don't care, they're just happy with it.

And the majority of people that complain, just buy it anyway, nullifying their complaints.

[open charm]

and as a whole it boosts the ecosystem and enjoyment of the hobby

the issue is its not sustainable

ficnaically

lookat the charts theyve made graphing game purchases

everyone wants great innovative games that try and do new things

but tracked sales show they almost always make negative money

[woeful iron]

so it must be that not everyone wants them

[shut token]

HiFi Rush didn't lose money lol

[open charm]

its not just your niche games either

[chilly sundial]

If they were innovative and well wanted by the entire gaming space, the numbers would be green

[open charm]

its stuff as big as mario series

with galaxies series didnt make a return on profits

but people loved it

[chilly sundial]

source for that?

[open charm]

even tho it had some of the worst sales at launch up until years later

[woeful iron]

the people that played it maybe loved it

but people that don't care, don't buy it

[open charm]

i can find the source later its old grahps i looked into tracking if gamers really actually want new novel stuff

but it tracks people are skepticial of new things

because human biology were wired this way

and we like same comfy stuff

its why you lean into things you already have familiarty with more than thigns that are completely unknown

somehow this was far more sustainable in older days than now maybe because games were smaller faster to make with less moving parts

[woeful iron]

well, you have to forgive people for not wanting to be poor and unemployed

[open charm]

so when games made loses like many of the kirby and star fox games

mario would or pokemon would be able to cover their loses

and keep these franchsies afloat

as stuff got bloated series like F0 just coudlnt sustain itself with failures anymore

the same happened to stuff like gotcha force

and even megaman

sadly

[woeful iron]

don't forget there were way lower expectation too and way less competition

[chilly sundial]

I have a hard time believing they were in the red on galaxy

[open charm]

smething like that

[open charm]

compare that games sales to other mario games like i said earlier

it sold way less and allegedly didnt make a return that part i may be wrong about

as i looked into its sales on the first year

[woeful iron]

it literally says best selling

[open charm]

on the wii

not best selling plural

those are funny word games companies use to not lose invester money

[woeful iron]

and you think other marios of that generation were on other consoles?

[open charm]

its how people wil lsay the firsst eeeeeera and add in a citation of what its the first ever of

[open charm]

same console

but sold way more than galaxies

its why nintendo said they dont wanna make more galaxy games after the second one

[chilly sundial]

🤔

[woeful iron]

again, it says best selling for the console

[shut token]

6.1 million units

[chilly sundial]

the exception here is the super mario world

[woeful iron]

sorry, those are bankruptcy numbers

[open charm]

https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Mario_games

i didnt say bankrupcy

wait are you guys just trying to do gotchas

[chilly sundial]

But the point is, none of these are in the red lol, which is the point you made

[open charm]

or have an actual conversation about the industry

[woeful iron]

there is no conversation to be had really

you just don't understand the industry

[open charm]

i legitimately said i may be wrong about the red numbers i looked into this the year it came out

[woeful iron]

or business in general apparently

[chilly sundial]

I'm trying but you keep contradicting yourself :P

[open charm]

ok than were done talking than

your clearing looking to fight and attack peoles characters

i wish you a good day sir

[woeful iron]

I'm not lol

[open charm]

take care of yourself

[shut token]

You're the one making claims and contradicting yourself at the same time

[open charm]

yeah my bad

take care

[woeful iron]

gg

[chilly sundial]

didn't sell as well, but is at the near top of the list across all the mario board 🤔

The math ain't mathin

[woeful iron]

you don't get it, cuppa, studios love making games that people don't buy

they should be poor out of the goodness of their heart to satisfy those 7 gamers

[grave cove]

It's not art if the creators aren't suffering /s

[chilly sundial]

The studio's gonna have to eat moldy bread so the gamers can eat the filet mignon

[summer current]

Are there really no jobs with just bps I saw many people make games in Bps only (I mean i will 100% learn the c++ anyway) I can code pretty much anything in bps since i love problem solving + i just find the answer and piece it together by myself until its perfect + searching for bugs is so much fun in bps What are the essentials that if you want to work with bps you should know ?

And any othe parts of ue5 that are useful to learn and used frequently?

[woeful iron]

not "programming" jobs no

[chilly sundial]

Yes there are none, on its own it's not a super valuable skill, except for super small studios

[woeful iron]

bp goes together with other disciplines

it's not really a thing on its own

you do design + bp, tech art + bp, c++ + bp...

but never just bp

[lilac walrus]

BP oriented jobs are the various flavours of 'Scripter' and 'Technical Designer'

they usually want more skills aside from just the BP knowledge though

[summer current]

So ima planning to learn C++ with Bps so i can code in ue5 and make games in a studio the questino is what other skills do you reccomend me to learn if you have any experience or anything you reccomend ?

[round radish]

Do you have any unreal experience?

[summer current]

Yep I can fully code basically anything anyone tells me in ue5 or ue4 using Bps if its procedural generation etc which i dont know off the top of my head i just google it set it up look at it why and how it works and just remember it I love using logic and searching for problems or optimizing code i have been coding as a hobby for 5 years or more made like 7 mini games just for myself to test features like a survival game with mining ores crafting etc. Or just like a bullet hell type of game with bosses with phases (Though the graphics were basic i must say i am really bad at making models and etc. DEFO not my job)

Ofc i still feel like a newbie and there is so much to learn (so again by anything i meant I can learn anything + i love and enjoy it)

[dusky fable]

You need a deep understanding of computer science and C++. You'll be competing with candidates that have a CS degree with a solid foundation.

[round radish]

Learn how to do all that in c++ and you've got a solid foundation.

But, yeah, you need to not only be able to do it, but also do it well.

[summer current]

Yeah I will learn the c++ in these months or maybe make a hybrid project use bps and c++ for optimizing things that are heavy for performance or things that arent possible in bps Thanksfully i feel like the "market" for jobs in ue bps/c++ is really huge and i have 2 months before college which i will maybe or maybe not go to depending on a few things But thank you for the info so much

[ivory echo]

Huge eh? 🧐

[round radish]

It was huge.

Now it's just hug.

[ivory echo]

Hugging people on the way out ?

[forest igloo]

Anyone here successfully shipped on nintendo switch ? looking for project manager and coder experienced in porting our RPG .

[rigid bluff]

check out #instructions, #career-chat is not for finding talent

[ivory echo]

Btw @rigid bluff this is what this channel’s description looks like on iOS

And you have to go to settings for it now cause… Discord

[rigid bluff]

is there a way to fix this? I can't edit the desciptions, only admins can

[ivory echo]

No idea. Maybe have # (space) instructions instead but that’ll also break the hyperlink on desktop, assuming it works there

[dapper tusk]

I was wondering if anyone had any input…

I am looking to refocus my career and invest in specialising a bit, since I’ve been such an uber-generalist for a long time.

I am wondering which areas might have some stability with all the AI and things that’s going on.

I have been looking towards rigging, but have seen some people say that it’s not that smart because of automation.

Is there any area you guys think would have some stability in the future? I’m also trying to consider just the sheer level of competition and saturation and how smart it is for somebody my age (36) to do this work right now.

Here’s a few of my thoughts:

Risky:

Modelling
Texturing
Concept art
Character Art

Less Risky:

Animation
FX/Sims
Cinematics
Groom

Obviously this is just a guess because who really knows.

I guess really I’m trying to figure out what are things that people feel like it’s not smart to start learning about.

[green oyster]

I dont think modeling and texturing will be affected anytime soon, there are some tools that help make seamless textures with AI for example but I dont think it will ever get to prompts like for concept art

[tiny palm]

Hey, has anyone else here gone 2 months without getting paid? I have been applying to other jobs but just curious how common this is.

[mint skiff]

very bad sign

Have you raised the issue with them

[green oyster]

One month and a bit, until I told them I paused work until it's resolved, but in my case it was just a bank thing

[woeful iron]

I went 21 years without getting paid

also didn't have a job though

hard to find work as a newborn

[autumn prairie]

gotta start working since before birth if you want 15+ years experience on a 2 year old technology those companies are asking

[dusky fable]

Don't apply to lead positions if you don't have the experience. 🤷‍♀️ Otherwise they don't ask for that much experience.

[lilac walrus]

there are 'junior' job postings out there asking for years of experience or shipped titles, lol

[ashen lynx]

Apply to any position you want, lead included. Chance you slip through and after few months nobody will care how you got there, provided you adapt fast enough.

[woeful iron]

very doubtful a junior profile could pass as a lead if accidentally hired

[ashen lynx]

Occasionally happens.

No reason not to.

[woeful iron]

no I mean if they accidentally got hired

it would become obviour very quickly probably

and if it doesn't, maybe that's not a place you want to work

[noble raptor]

Hey all, bit of a weird question. Somewhat new to running a studio. Got all of our designers, artists, musicians, and writers currently under work-for-hire agreements; but that was recent. I'm concerned about IP that was made in the past prior to a work-for-hire being signed by some members of my team; does anyone know what kind of legal agreement I would want to get to retroactively cover work done in the past or does anyone have experience figuring out how to transfer over IP? nobody on my team would decline this, it's just for peace of mind really

[woeful iron]

I think it's best to contact a lawyer

I'm guessing it varies by country

[noble raptor]

yeah i'm in the US

should've specified

i mean - if I had a good lawyer on hand and the funds to actually speak to them things would be a lot easier 🥲 guess I'd probably want to bite the bullet on this one tho

[dusky fable]

So? Apply anyway. Seniors aren't applying to those positions. They'll hire the best candidate they can find within the budget they are constrained to.

[mental oracle]

Does anyone else in college / new grad feel really ashamed they can't get an internship? I had a swe internship at a FAANG my freshman year, an s&p 500 swe my sophomore year, and junior year I had a super severe concussion so had to redo it and am now on my second junior year summer with no internship. I go to a top 10 US school and in a career development class was told I had the best resume. I've sent out hundreds upon hundreds of applications and I've been ghosted by 99% of them. Only responses I got were roblox, which i got cut after 3 rounds, and an unpaid web dev startup position. I love games and cs and am in it 100% out of passion but feel like I was lied to about the opportunities and feel like it's been an endless grind when I could've just majored in business and gotten into the games industry easier that way, or at least had a job that isn't working at a restaurant to pay for college. I'm just scared it's gonna be like this when I graduate and I'll end up doing IT at an elementary school or something making games in my free time. Which is not the end of the world of course I just don't know how I've gone from seemingly having so much opportunity to nothing

[mint skiff]

market is not in a great place at the moment. Many other people are in the same position.

or at least had a job that isn't working at a restaurant to pay for college
this is pretty unusual in general while studying imo. Covid years were an aberration.

[mental oracle]

Yeah I have scholarship during the school year but as soon as school is done I have to work to pay rent and my school is in a major city so pretty much all of my money gone at the end of every month

Sorry I'm kind of just venting

Hopefully the market picks up before I graduate. I feel like there's a lot of opportunity to be made in the enertainment industry with unreal especially with all the new arenas being built

[mint skiff]

sure

unhelpful if anyone ever prints it

unless you're applying as a graphic designer it should just look professional and be easy to read and digest.

[round radish]

You can be different without being unprintable.

[lilac walrus]

worth bearing in mind that your CV needs to be machine readable, since automated processes are probably going to be reading it before a person does

[green oyster]

AI ready

[pulsar turret]

I'd like to make tech demos but I can't find something good. I feel like it's either too easy, either too difficult. Do anyone has a junior portfolio example I could take a look at ? I need to scope my projects better

[granite solar]

How would y'all go about labeling "promotions" or position changes in work history on a resume, when nothing really changed regarding the work and workload? It's a little bit of weird situation but I was originally hired on a temp contract as a Junior Associate (had the same workload and work hours as a fulltime engineer). 5 Months in was when I was offered the full-time (so no longer a temporary contract) position as an Associate Engineer. However, thanks to bureaucratic red tape type stuff, that didn't become official till 17 months after I started (so 12 months after the initial proposal). My work load didn't change with the 'job change' - I just became a full-time employee with a paid salary and different title. Would you list those as two separate 'jobs', or just condensed as one? I feel like it should be separate because "technically" it's a new position but the actual work wasn't any different so it feels kinda pointless/redundant to separate them. My first couple months were obviously drastically different from the past couple months since it's my first job in the industry, but there's not a difference from the month before the title change, and the month after.

[cerulean sierra]

I would condense the two into your "official" role, which would be whatever the work load came from. No need to confuse it, especially if the actual work is identical. Plus, splitting the experience time on paper just seems detrimental; recruiters may glance at the two without realising they were actually the same role.

[dusky fable]

Typically you separate the different job titles within the same section for the studio.

Studio Name
Job title 1 start date - end date
Job title 2 start date - end date

[lilac walrus]

what on earth is the distinction between 'Junior Associate' and 'Associate' anyway? Just sounds like pay band tomfoolery

I would probably just leave it as 'Associate' and condense the two

[plucky hatch]

Not if you wanted to underpay you wouldn't

Associate is a Junior Associate with experience.

[lilac walrus]

If you condensed it all into Associate I don't see where 'underpaying' would come into it, it just looks like the one title on the CV and it's fine since the responsibilities were exactly the same

[woeful iron]

either you list them all with the dates, or you just put the current one, if you really want you can still put (since XX-XX-XXXX), but I think just the last position is good enough. I don't think recruiter would care when the promotion was at all, only the current role. And if they want to know more, you can talk about it in interview. Or they could check out your linkedin or something where it can be split up

[woeful iron]

in our company "associate" is literally the word we use instead of junior

[lilac walrus]

yeah, that's what I'm familiar with too - though it can also mean a 'trainee' of sorts working towards a more senior position

[plucky hatch]

hello here

[granite solar]

Associate - entry level full-time
Junior Associate- entry level temp contract
(at least that's how I interpret it because that's all that really changed for me lol)
and thank you for the reponses gpb89, Luthage, and Dieter

[finite knoll]

I'm also familiar with this because I did have the "associate" prefix for a lead role, which, yeah, was to train me up to become the thing

which would've been the case if the studio didn't lay off half of its staff last year

[naive remnant]

I'm looking to do some game animation for my demo reel since it's been a bit and I'm happy with my reel from a cinematic perspective but I'm not sure what kind of game animation I should do. Fps, 3rd person, fixed perspective. Any suggestions?

[cerulean sierra]

Go with whatever you enjoy. It'll all translate in terms of skill anyways. In my experience, if you don't enjoy it for your reel, it will never be as good as something framed for the market.

Just be cool with it, enjoy and learn from it.

[kindred kiln]

For anyone working in the industry full time. How long did it take you to achieve this? Ive been doing Unreal Engine/gamedev for about 6 months now and I abosultely love everything about it. I can definitely see myself doing at as a career but the industry seems soo competitive that it almost feels like an impossible task to get a job doing this or even publishing a game by myself

[spice dagger]

Like pretty much everything else, it takes time and perseverance.

Evaluate where you are in your journey. Try and identify a few different paths that lead you to where you want to be.

Take the steps necessary to follow those paths.

If for example you want to be working in AAA, you might need to start applying for entry level positions or build up your educational and experiential background first.

Becoming a Contract Freelancer can be easier if you are interested in small teams and Indie projects instead.

Focus on honing your skills and developing a portfolio that can show potential clients what they can expect from your work.

Take small jobs to start.

Look through our Job Board here on Discord

See what people are looking for

#freelance-jobs

#rev-share-jobs

[digital snow]

Hello guys, I dont know how to ask this type of question in a better way, but I would like to know how the game industry in the US works with sponsoring work visas after you get a OPT work visa from a Master degree.
I already got accept for a Master degree in game design and now Im doing the f-1 Study visa, but my main concern is how often the company will or can sponsor you to stay with a work visa in the USA.

[agile thicket]

What about experience in tech but outside the games industry? My goal is to have a portfolio piece to demonstrate my domain knowledge, and lean on my tech experience outside gamedev. I have about 9 years as a software engineer, just not in games. Do you think this is a good strategy?

[lilac walrus]

I spent about 6 years or so making mods and stuff for games before entering the industry, but your mileage may vary given this was quite some time ago now

[dusky fable]

Studios don't sponsor visas for anything below senior level

[spice dagger]

If you have considerable work experience outside the industry that is relevant, you will have a much better chance.

Its easier to teach someone how to make games that already has 9 years of C++ experience, than it is to teach someone who hasnt.

If your software engineering background did not involve C++ then you may need to focus on that to start.

[agile thicket]

What would you recommend I focus on if my experience is not in C++? I'm pretty confident writing my own code in C++ in unreal engine. Nothing too crazy but the syntax and OOP principles I have down. I had to learn memory management, pointers, and references, but it wasn't too bad. Is there anything C++ specific that I wouldn't have picked up using good design principles in other languages?

[spice dagger]

Focus on learning C++. If you are looking for an entry level job, you might appear as a good candidate. But generally speaking you want to do everything you can to be above and beyond the rest.

Depends a lot on the type of job you are looking for.

Its much easier for example to look at Freelance listings and judge for yourself whether you can do them. Negotiate with the Client the work to be done and at what rate (if any) and then do the work...

Finding a AAA entry level position would be an entirely different experience.

It really sounds like to me you need to spend a lot of time just developing stuff.

Hone your skills.

[digital snow]

Thanks for the reply, and I suppose getting out of a Master Degree will be considered below senior right?

[woeful iron]

of course

[chilly sundial]

Even with a masters, you're still entry level

[novel kraken]

I’m starting to think learning to make game art was a bad idea. AI tools are getting strong fast. God I can’t imagine how much the audio guys are freaking out.

https://youtu.be/9efm5SvV0e4?si=z01oLx7fmggntE07

This is really cool but also terrible.

[chilly sundial]

The ones who are good with what they do, probably not much.
As with anything AI is a tool.

No one is going to be able to just create exact bespoke music to fit their needs with 0 knowledge of audio just like that. You're gonna have an audio guy that uses such tools to speed up his workflow.

[granite solar]

AI will never replicate the intent and control an artist can put into their work, regardless of the creative medium, whether that be painting, animation, music, etc.

[ivory echo]

Idk about never but def not the garb they call “ai” now

[pallid palm]

Anecdotally I overheard an accomplished 3D artist bemoaning how most of his gigs now are spending a few days modifying art generated by AI. He's still doing the final art, but since AI is used for the first pass, he's not making much money in these situations.

[bleak arch]

Hey are there any Unreal engine 5 artists in here?

[round radish]

If you're looking for somebody to do work for you, read #instructions

[novel kraken]

Yeah I guess I am just going to plan to incorporate it into my workflow. Not sure I can do anything else.

[plucky hatch]

How does copyright work when you are seeking publishing support?
Like if I pitch a game idea to a publisher, they reject it, but then a yeat later they without me publish a game with the same idea, will I have grounds for suing?

And is my idea automatically considered protected by copyright, or so I have to do some special steps?
Is having a dated game design document enough to count as copyright?

Wrong chat sorry

Wont delete cuz I see some people replying

[brave forge]

The document is copyrighted, but generally ideas can't be. but also, they don't do this since:

1. it's a good way to stop pitches
2. ideas are a dime a dozen. They have a many more sure fire bets than stealing an idea

[mint skiff]

copyright protects the work (literally the right to copy). No copyright for ideas. You automatically exclusively own the right to copy your own work.

will I have grounds for suing?
Depends on advice from your lawyer.

[plucky hatch]

Makes sense, thanks

[brave forge]

They also generally don't take pitches or submissions outside specific channels since they don't want the hassle. They generally have boiler plate responses for unsolicited idea submissions saying "we didn't read this, we've deleted it, we don't take unsolicited ideas" not because the claim would have any legit chance of success, but because they don't even want the hassle of fending off a baseless claim

[plucky hatch]

What do you mean dont take pitches outside specific channels? Dont unserstand that part

[brave forge]

They have specific submission processes for pitches and ideas.

[plucky hatch]

Still dont understand how that relates to my question?
Not trying to be salty or karen, just genuinely dont get what you mean by that.

Like most publishers either have a submission form on their website, or tell you to email them. What other specific process?

[brave forge]

I'm highlighting that those processes exist specifically to isolate the submission process from their other development teams to avoid ideas being stolen, even accidentally

[plucky hatch]

Ah I see

[brave forge]

They don't want the hassle of these claims, people have tried it before in movies and games, so they know how to handle it

Yeah, pretty much

[fervent palm]

Also don’t post the same question in another channel 🤦🏼‍♂️

[round radish]

But he has the right to copy his own work! 😂

[kind spade]

If I have the skill to create a full fledged game like Valorant. By create I mean the programming side of things.
How much should I ask for salary ? Or what should be my base salary be as per my skill level ?

[round radish]

Can you prove it?

[kind spade]

I am not specifying that I have that level of skills.
I am just asking in terms of that level

[round radish]

It would depend where you live.

And where the company is that's employing you.

And at what level of job you're applying.

[kind spade]

Let's say US

[round radish]

Even if you can make valorant, you might still be applying for an entry or mid-level position.

[kind spade]

And at the Senior level

[round radish]

Well over $100k I would imagine.

[kind spade]

Doesn't apply to remote right ?

[round radish]

No idea.

It's a whole big It Depends ™️

[kind spade]

Gotcha

[daring sleet]

Hello.
I want to learn and implement advanced game AI techniques.
However, I want to avoid using Unreal for that purpose as I am also trying to improve my raw c++ programming skills.
Do you all have any advice ?

[stuck parcel]

You could use middleware

[daring sleet]

middleware?

[dusky fable]

Skill level is not measured by "I can make X game by myself given enough time". Especially senior level.

[dusky fable]

What do you mean by advanced AI using raw C++?

[plucky hatch]

guys I have a question, if I want to have a career in game development, like I want to be an indie dev, would you say its okay to only use blueprint?? I find c++ really confusing and theres not too many great free tutorials for actually being a developer with c++ in ue5. If someone could point me to a good video that'd be cool, but im really struggling trying to learn c++.

[dusky fable]

It's incredibly unlikely to make a living wage being a solo dev. Like hit by lightning low. To get hired as a programmer you need C++, but there are many other roles available. Design for example uses a lot of BP.

If you want a job as a programmer, then it's highly recommended to get a CS degree. Learning from tutorials is really not enough.

[plucky hatch]

Im only 15 so im looking for a spot to start, and I really want to be a programmer since i've been messing around in roblox with code since I was 10. Unfortunately my high school's computer science class is in Java so I can't learn c++ there. I also want to make my own games and not be working for a giant company but I have no one to make games with.

[dusky fable]

Learning another language doesn't actually hurt you. The syntax is different and there are some other differences like memory management, but there's a lot that is the same.

Making your own games is fine. You're still unlikely to make a living wage from it. There are many different types of studios, not just giant companies.

[plucky hatch]

Okay thanks, I’ve decided I’m going to learn c++ and stick with it for a while

[daring sleet]

I meant, sophisticated AI behaviours used in modern games, such as GOAP, Dialog Systems to name a few.
I have been wanting to replicate some projects I've seen on GDC talks, on a small scale.

Basically I have two objectives.

1. Showcase my understanding of AI used in modern AAA games and
2. improve my ability to program in vanilla C++, unlike UE's dialect which simplifies things a lot.

[wary idol]

C++ in UE is vanilla C++, in fact it's cpp20 and not a special version of the language
GC and reflection in C++ is not something exclusive to UE (there are other C++ projects that do it), UE just implements the boilerplate as a code generator (UHT)
So if you aren't working with UObjects or reflected C++ types there is no difference, it's just a large framework

[dusky fable]

Most games don't use GOAP. Even modern AAA games. It's difficult for design to use and not preformant. In most cases it's completely unnecessary. HTNs at least have better performance. BTs and FSMs are far more common, even in "modern" games.

Are you trying to mix vanilla C++ with UE? Or reinvent everything by not using any engine?

[daring sleet]

GOAP was just an example.
What I am trying to do is avoid UE.
But that would mean building an engine from scratch, which is obviously not ideal.
I was wondering if there was some middleground.
Perhaps some open-source engine written with C++ that provided basic features to develop my AI projects.

[wary idol]

you can do AI in UE without touching BTs and systems UE provides

[dusky fable]

That really only is beneficial for studios that use proprietary engines. Which you can do with much smaller projects, where you don't need to reinvent so many systems like navigation and perception.

While it's not very impressive for studios that use UE.

[daring sleet]

So, should it be okay to develop my AI projects in UE?
For learning C++, maybe I could make much smaller projects written in pure c++ from scratch. Any suggestions for that ?

[dusky fable]

Something that shows you know memory management. A math library is another idea.

Even studios that use a proprietary engine like projects done in other engines. It shows that you can learn an engine and use it effectively.

[daring sleet]

Hmmm.. I see.
Thank you for the suggestions. 🙂
I think I will stick to UE for my major projects, and use pure c++ for much simpler projects that help me learn the features of the language.

[daring sleet]

i think they can hear my thoughts

[ivory echo]

Solid click bait

[unreal finch]

Hey guys I’m in need of advice here

I wanna work in the industry as a 3d character artist , I already work in it freelance and go from my own drawn concept to final but I can’t decide if I want to focus more on personal style and get a studio job with that or go for just like fan art and a generic trending style

And tbh I’d love to work for film more but I know games make more money

Stuff like the LoL arcane show

[woeful iron]

I'd say make the style you'd most like to work in

but also if you have the time try to maintain some variety

[autumn moss]

Who can do authorization in Unreal Engine 5?

[woeful iron]

as in authorization on a server?

[autumn moss]

Yes

[woeful iron]

seems like you want #multiplayer ? or if you're looking to hire someone, read #instructions

[autumn moss]

Are there any guides?

[woeful iron]

#career-chat is not the place to discuss this

[autumn moss]

And where?

[autumn moss]

Is it paid to hire?

[chilly sundial]

Generally speaking it's the best way to get someone to work for you

If you want good multiplayer code, especially with something sensitive like logins, then you're gonna have to pay a pretty penny

[autumn moss]

no card

[woeful iron]

also side note, authorization sounds like something better handled on a separates service from your game, but idk, never did MP in unreal

[fervent palm]

I’ve done it just ain’t tested to see if it works

[woeful iron]

what

[fervent palm]

I’ve done MP before

[woeful iron]

happy for you

[granite solar]

Can you really say you've done it if you never checked if it worked?

[oblique ice]

great, how is MP?

[agile thicket]

anecdotally, i don't have a degree and i make really good money at a well-known software company. there are plenty of self-taught developers in the software development industry. it's less common, and the people I interview with are usually surprised I don't have a degree, but it's not a hard and fast rule that you can't self-teach

looking back i don't regret getting 4 years of industry experience instead of spending 4 years in school

[dusky fable]

I was talking about game dev, not general tech.

[ivory echo]

<<Gameplay>> experiences may vary

[fervent palm]

Well that’s the whole point of testing it to see if it actually works 🤦🏼‍♂️that’s the main reason why you have game testers

[woeful iron]

well I would hope that developers test that at least the basic functionality works before moving it over to testers

[lilac walrus]

if one of my people didn't test their stuff before submitting it and sending it to QA I'd be having pretty stern words with them

Testers are there to check that stuff is working as expected; if you've never even run your code I don't see how you're supposed to have expectations

Testers have a job to do, and that job isn't making sure you're doing your job

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/ea-ea-games-challenge-everything-gaming-gif-17330237

[open prawn]

Does anybody know good resources for preparing to Kickstart a game? We're still a ways away, but this seems like the type of thing we should be prepping for early.

[hollow shore]

The Kickstarter guide is very very good, it shows all the preparations needed. I would also check successful kickstarters with similar ideas and unsuccessful kickstarters with similar ideas. That gives clues what works and what doesn't. The main work I'd say is marketing, sending the kickstarter link out and posting about the idea in different social medias. A good way to get support is to build a community that can help with spreading the link etc.

[daring sleet]

Hello.
I want to showcase my portfolio on a website.
Which website creators would be suitable for this purpose ?

[limpid bloom]

hey guys, I would like to know, is it worth taking those "tests" when you receive those e-mails? I've done 3 of them so far when 2 of them the person in the matter did not even take a look at the project, it really feels like just wasting my time, but idk, I have basically 0 experience inside the industry, just freelancing, this e-mail really feels like a generic thing that they send to like 1000 candidates

it's a simple task, but being simple means that I will not acquire new knowledge/portfolio stuff, so a "no" means a waste of my time and energy...

[dusky fable]

Most studios give tests, especially for entry level positions. Not doing tests means you don't get the job. It's not about you learning new skills or making things for your portfolio. It's about evaluating your skills.

[limpid bloom]

This one made me feel extra sus because really feels like AI written haha, but yeah, thanks for the advice!

[dusky fable]

The sending it via telegram makes it look a bit suspicious to me.

[limpid bloom]

Yeah, I opened one of the links, and it's a website for using I.A to find candidates/candidates find open positions, and that sounds actually like shit, I am 100% sure that there are like 500 other people that got this e-mail XD

[agile thicket]

It would be nice if they gave you the test after initially screening your resume and portfolio, so you're not wasting time if they don't think you're a good fit. A test being the first thing before they even look at your resume is a little rude.

When this happens to me I feel like they are using "willingness to accept unreasonable requests" as their first candidate filter

But luthage is right, if you only apply to companies that don't require a test up front, you're narrowing your opportunities significantly. Sometimes you just have to bend over backwards when there is a lot of competition

This is true in the rest of the tech world too

Especially after all the layoffs

[small marsh]

wtf does a UI programmer do?

slate? 💀

[grave cove]

For Unreal, UI programmers usually work with UMG.
Tools programmers might do some work with Slate.

[chilly sundial]

Can confirm as a tools programmer

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/theres-no-such-thing-william-murdoch-murdoch-mysteries-theres-nothing-like-that-no-such-thing-exists-gif-24570169

[soft kraken]

hmm hi guys, i trying to learn become a tech artist ..anyone have a guide or some advice?

[dusky fable]

UI programmers also work in slate. Or they'll work in a middleware solution like Coherent. It entirely depends on the project.

[grave cove]

Yeah, absolutely! We have gameplay/systems programmers that will also work in slate but it’s not expected in that role usually. None or our UI people ever did.
I guess what I’m saying is that if I’m hiring UI programmers, UMG is the expected experience/mastery. Slate or middleware experience is a “nice to have” but not expected.

[round radish]

I can't help but see "FAMES"

[zinc spade]

facepalm Thanks for telling me, I should probably change that. ❤️

[round radish]

🙂

[ebon lotus]

Artstation or github for code

[honest kayak]

What is the best online content (preferably free) to start learning 3D character modeling and rigging for Unreal Engine? That involves the entire process from modeling, weight painting, UV, paint textures, rigging and even importing into unreal

[lilac walrus]

I have seen UI programmers mostly working at the slate level. UMG was generally the domain of tech designers, but there is some crossover

[quartz ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-dune-part-2-stilgar-fremen-disbelief-gif-12317631084823747336

Everyone learns differently, for modeling youd need a 3d modelling software, so Itd be up to you to figure out which one to use, if you say free blender is a typical go to option, and then you can search for 3D modelling tutorials and so on in relation to that first

[honest kayak]

modeling is the easiest part, the thing goes difficult in Rigging, UV Unwrap etc...

[limpid bloom]

Yeah, I've spoken to J Hill, and he told me something very similar, tests just for companies that you know are serious to not waste your time. I've sent them an e-mail back asking some questions and they never responded, so I know that they are absolutely not for real haha

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/jonah-hill-frustrated-wolf-of-wall-street-annoyed-smh-gif-9553858

<@&213101288538374145> can we ban this guy with impunity?

Ty

[round radish]

There was a guy?

[ivory echo]

https://tenor.com/view/gif-gif-19494855

[runic moon]

is it better to be good at multiple things to get a job in game development? like your good at art and programming>

[chilly sundial]

No, you'll never overlap unless you're in an exceedingly small studio, or on a volunteer project

[runic moon]

ahh okay i assume it jut preference or if your a solo dev?

[chilly sundial]

I mean you can learn those other things if you like, just don't advertise then as skills for unrelated jobs.

And yeah, if you're a solo dev you need to learn every area you dont want to pay for.

[ivory tundra]

(to be fair, art + "programming" could fulfill a techart role.) And the borders there are fluent, you can have more art focused tech arts and more technical/ (maybe even code/script facing) tech arts.

[chilly sundial]

Fair point. Tech artists and their breaking of the rules smh

[round radish]

They squeeze past on a technicality.

[serene ice]

Hey, could I get some feedback on my CV, please? I'm looking for my first job in game development.

[woeful iron]

redacted sure is a strange name

yet you still just leak it through github lol

I mean it's a bit bland and empty

so not much to critique

but it can be hard your first job

but try to stand out

[serene ice]

I'm looking for my first job as a QA Tester, so I don't know what more I could write

[woeful iron]

even visual things could help

like a pic of your face

or logo's of software

idk

I'm not a recruiter either tbh

[serene ice]

ok, thanks for advice

[fervent palm]

Don’t put you’re face on a cv

[woeful iron]

it depens where you are though

in some countries it's the normal thing to do

in US they might throw it out to avoid claims of discrimination

[lilac walrus]

you should avoid putting too much personally identifying info in your CVs - you don't need images in a CV you just need it to be clean and readable

the recruiter will probably not look at it anyway, it all gets pulled through automated systems

[woeful iron]

I mean, a recruiter will probably look at it eventually

[rotund raptor]

I see vacancies for game producer, where does that entail? Thought producers paid for everything?

[chilly sundial]

No? Why would an employee pay for the Company's game?

Production handle more administrative work

Like meeting planning and such

[rotund raptor]

Ohh that kind of production... Could even be a recruiter

Make sense

[royal lintel]

err, no, not a recruiter.

producers deal with planning, timelines, making sure everyone knows what needs to be done and what is being worked on. Tasking out work, taking notes. Role varies heavily depending on company (and even depending on team within some companies) but those are the common tasks a producer would have. Equivalent would be a product/project manager in other industries.

[noble raptor]

question for those here, particularly level designers/artists and NOT programmers: do your studios take an iterative approach to project planning (i.e. sprints), or something more traditional?
currently trying to figure this out for my own studio, where the main advocate for our level designers doesn't want to deal with iterations because "i can tackle the design and QA myself; having to go through QA and playtesters every time wastes everybody's time" and I just think this is a recipe for disaster regardless of whether we go iterative or waterfall

doing online research tends to lean towards taking an iterative approach, but supposedly "1 sprint isn't enough time to get anything done if we have to also get it QA'd" according to said person on my team 🤔

I pitched also extending sprints to a month rather than 2 weeks in that case and that also wasn't okay for some reason

this is a bit tough as I have management experience for managing programmers, but not artists/designers.

[ivory echo]

Sounds like you work for EA 😂

[woeful iron]

#blueprint

[tired dust]

whops didn't see the chat 😅

[zenith stone]

Can some one please help me with this:

How do I make camera stop following Head Mounted Device in collab viewer VR template Unreal Engine? So basically it should look like a static image in VR mode.

I am using Unreal Engine Version 5.2.1.

[chilly sundial]

That's an odd career question

[zenith stone]

I kinda working on a project, I need to move it with a different script, basically it should follow another object

[woeful iron]

ok, but #career-chat is not the place to ask

go to #cpp or #blueprint

[zenith stone]

Cool, thank you for letting me know

[woeful iron]

read #rules ,this is not the chat for this

use #1054845218723209226

[chilly sundial]

Nope. check #industry-chat lol, it's not even an unreal game

[woeful iron]

oh lol

[placid hare]

After you build a couple personal projects within Game Dev. Do you usually have links to them on GitHub? Or a website portfolio for everyone to check them out?
Follow Up: Is it frowned upon to reach out to folks just to build something in a team setting not necessarily profit but just to do it?

[woeful iron]

I mean we have a whole #rev-share-jobs

nothing holding you back from just asking

[agile thicket]

For your first question, who is meant to see your portfolio? Are you hoping people just stumble across it, or are you actively sending it to people? Putting them on itch.io might have better discoverability than your own personal website. When you send out your resume or an email to someone you're trying to network with, you can include links to your itch.io pages.

[placid hare]

Got it. Idk I thought maybe people wanted to like verify your work or something while networking to give them something to showcase. Or maybe its an overthinking thing lol

I will look into itch.io for sure

[dusky fable]

A website portfolio is standard. With videos and a breakdown of the work that you did. Most people don't have time to play your games on itch or dig through the code on GitHub.

[nimble geyser]

lmao

[woeful iron]

makes sense

must be a Finnish studio

[oblique ice]

wow, interesting post

[woeful iron]

linkedin comment bot leaking into discord

[ivory echo]

lol that entire post is ridiculous

[fallen topaz]

lol main character is a saunamaster

[ivory echo]

Mix of Life is Strange, FF, “adventure levels with dog”??

[green oyster]

Are these related lol https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/my-narrative-girls-must-go-to-the-sauna-with-me-to-write-an-amazi/z76f65

[lilac walrus]

yes

[ivory echo]

Jeez

Also what the heck is a sauna master? I thought people just went to saunas why is mastery involved? 😁

[round radish]

That word may have been cut short

(and spelt wrong)

[jagged tusk]

Hello Can we share CV in this channel?

[woeful iron]

yes

[round radish]

Depends why you're sharing it.

If you're saying "here's my cv, can I get a job?" no.

If it's "Here's my cv, can I get tips?" yes.

[elder relic]

Hello guys, I'm currently working for a big company on my first AAA game, I've been working on it for more than a year already, but it will take at least another year until release. Does it make sense to look for another job right now, or should I wait for release? What is wiser from a career perspective?

[oblique ice]

congratulations

[sage forum]

I think it all depend on if you enjoy working there

[elder relic]

I like it but I feel that the internal career progression that doesn't really rewards merit. I'm working for an outsourcing company and they don't know anything about the work I do in the actual project. The career progression is based on a list of theoretical concepts / hard skills and doesn't count in the talent. It is actually based on how much I study on my own after work, and not on the value I bring to the project. Basically you can be a mediocre developer, release features that are full of bugs, but as long as you study additional concepts you end up progressing in the career.
I like the current project, but I feel like my career could progress much faster by landing a job at another company with a higher seniority

[ashen lynx]

@elder relic there is zero reason to tie yourself to delivery time of a particular project, unless you formed moral attachment to it.

You get appreciably better offer? Go for it without any second thoughts.

[elder relic]

Thanks for your support. I don't know whether I could get better offers, I'm not applying for other jobs at the moment. But I'm still undecided whether, from a long-term career perspective, it's better to stick to a project until the end or hop to another job. Especially considering that this would be the first AAA project I'm working on

[ashen lynx]

It should not be overthought. You dont feel comfortable? You think like you could be doing better ? It is indication that you are already a bit late on start shotgunning applications. Nothing wrong with that at all. Peeps been getting decade of experience without even completing full dev cycle or even delivering a project, and sometimes it does happen to be that way. Let it not hold you back in improving working conditions, but be mindful that your anticipation of a larger studio or your dream work place might be a bit off. Quite off, at times.

[elder relic]

Yeah you're right. I shouldn't bind my decision to completing the dev cycle. I will think more in terms of current position and available positions. Thank you for advice

[pliant olive]

Hello everyone! 🙂

I would like to ask for your opinion on the roadmap I have in mind. I want to become an environment artist for video games (I'm not sure if there are many positions available in this field). I'm currently finishing a general course on Unreal Engine. After that, I plan to take a Blender course and another course on VFX. Am I choosing the right path?

I would appreciate any advice you can give me, especially from those with more experience in the industry.

Thank you!

[mint skiff]

End goal is to build a portfolio that gets you hired. This means practicing a lot, developing your critical eye and personal style, and participating in the community.

Courses are fine but the core of your development is going to be in the pieces you produce.

[pliant olive]

I completely agree with you, but I want to take a good path and not "learn" things in courses that I will not use later because I have another goal and I learned "that" because I thought it was necessary. That is my doubt/problem, and that is why I ask you for advice 🙂

[mint skiff]

you are going to 'waste' time. That is just a fact of learning. Start from a project or piece you want to do, and in the course of working on that identify what you're missing and what resources you need to seek out.

art is not a rigid discipline, there's not really going to be anything that's 'wasted experience' if it has contributed to producing the work you wanted to produce. It's only really later in your career that you start to specialise.

[ashen lynx]

Not really. VFX is not really relevant to you. You need modelling, unwrapping and texturing skills as well as familiarity with tools you are going to be using for the above. You need good sense of composition, familiarity with color theory. You also need basic understanding of how realtime rendering works and how to make your art efficient. And most of all, you need flawless observation skills. All that you need to turn into two or three completed environments. If done right, you will have a job in months after completing that.

@pliant olive

[pliant olive]

@ashen lynx So, I'm taking the Belder course to learn modeling, right? I'm finishing the Unreal course I'm taking to have the basic knowledge to start making my own projects and... for the topic you mentioned about color and textures, what can I do to learn? A course on Udemy, perhaps? Or something more expensive on another website? I need a little guidance :_)

[jolly sand]

How does working in the game industry work? If I wanna be a c++ game developer does it mean im only hired for that game n then dropped/

?

Is it consistency in the industry or ill always have to keep looking for new jobs

[ivory echo]

I mean… given the current state of the industry (mass layoffs across the board), I don’t think you can call it consistent

[jolly sand]

damnnn so going full time in this would leave me broke ?

im only 18 but im still tryna figure out my career path

[oblique ice]

go to game conference, meet game developer there

[ivory echo]

Not necessarily. Just don’t expect job security

[nova stag]

bro can you drop a help?

im 18

[round radish]

#ue5-general pinned messages.

[nova stag]

?

[round radish]

Go to the #ue5-general channel and look at the pinned messages to for help learning to use UE...

[dusky fable]

You can get hired as a contractor, which is time based, or as a full time employee. As a FTE, you work for the studio on a specific project and then moved to another project later. That might be after the game ships or later when things are stable, depending on the needs of the project. For a live service game that might be years later. Often studios will stagger games so when one is spinning down, the next one is spinning up.

Layoffs do happen after a project ends, especially if the game didn't perform. It's not as common as it used to be. Projects can also be cancelled and studios run out of funding and shut down. It is however not as doom and gloom as people who don't work in the industry think it is. You just need to make sure you have a solid emergency fund. Getting your first job or 2 is really hard, but once you get experience it's not.

You shouldn't be always looking for a new job. Especially as a programmer.

[chilly sundial]

well you aren't going to be using js or react for game programming

it's pretty much exclusively going to be c# or C++, the former of which is pretty easy to pick up on the fly if you know c++

[ivory echo]

And if you are, gl&hf

[modern relic]

Why you gotta roast my start up?

[ivory echo]

Oops 😀

It’s cause JS games aren’t real games. 😛

https://tenor.com/view/runs-away-runs-run-benjammins-ben-jammins-gif-17565737688636761694

[modern relic]

Someone made a sim city type game in the browser ♟️

[ivory echo]

When you clear cookies, your saves disappear 😀

[round radish]

Sounds like a great implementation.

[agile thicket]

i worked in ad tech about 5 years ago, and our web game clients were making money hand over fist

[ivory echo]

Yeah, sometimes I wish unsolicited ads were declared illegal globally

[frosty swift]

Runescape? 😢

[woeful iron]

remember when they tried to make it html5

[modern relic]

Wasn't that made with flash or Java or something?

[modern relic]

Nope was it great?

[woeful iron]

nope, didn't work for shit, ran at like 2 fps, they cancelled the project and made runescape non-web client instead

now they use c++ instead

[woeful iron]

It was Java indeed

[woeful iron]

We had some very good reasons for wanting to write a new client, Java has become increasingly harder to run in a browser over the years, plus it’s written in a way that makes it difficult for us to squeeze out any more performance from it, or to add new features.

In any case, the HTML5 client was supposed to solve these problems and generally make it easier for you to play RuneScape. Unfortunately the client wasn’t fast enough, even on high-end computers. The performance problems we originally thought were just something we needed to work on, were rather more intractable than we had anticipated, for quite complicated technical reasons. So, we went back to the drawing board and decided that the only way we could sort things out properly was to write the client again.

Over the past year we have been quietly working to bring you something pretty awesome. Our next new client builds on the re-architecting we did for the HTML5 project to deliver what HTML5 could not – the performance you expect out of your computer when playing RuneScape, with all of the added benefits we had intended to give you before, and more.

[modern relic]

I mean at least they realised and didn't pretend it was good and shipped it anyway

[ivory echo]

lol, so they came to the realization that using a language meant for gamedev is miles above using web dev to make a game, who’d have thunk?

[woeful iron]

well rs would never be what is is or has been if it didn't run in the browser back in the day though

[woeful iron]

why do people so often delete messages in here, half the time I see there is a new message, it's gone by the time I check the channel lol

[red stump]

(it was deleted against said persons will)

[ivory echo]

It’s usually bots

[spice dagger]

Lots of people make job listings in here that we just remove

[tulip grail]

Hi All! What is the state of Game Dev Job Market?

Its Getting better or worse or its still the same?

[steel creek]

yes.

[oblique ice]

how is the state? can read game developer articles 🤔

[opaque aurora]

So, I'm working as a programmer in a game company, just not with Unreal. We get some personal development budget each year that we can use to do courses or buy books for example. Those should be aligned with the company goals, so I can't use it to do anything directly Unreal related, since we don't use Unreal. Basically it should be generic game programming and I'm having a hard time finding something. I already have the book Game Programming Patterns, which is a good example what I'm looking for. Maybe anyone has some recommendations for anything similar?

[grave cove]

As a programmer, any books on software development/engineering, systems design, project management or language references (for whatever language your company's working with) are recommended.
Game programming is not a special snowflake when it comes to these sorts of problems. Even if they're written with examples from another language they will be useful.
You can find a lot just searching Amazon or googling. People ask for book lists all over so it should be pretty easy to get recommendations.

[opaque aurora]

Hm, yeah, true. My search is probably too focused on the "game" aspect, which is why I only find results for specific engines.

[restive crescent]

Hey folks, I was curious, do y'all often see take-home projects used for evaluating people for UE software engineering positions, specifically for generalists (in smaller studios) and gameplay programmers?

[dusky fable]

Yes it's common, especially for entry level

[dusky fable]

Depends on what you are interested in. There's a lot of books out there.

I would highly recommend GDC vault access if your studio doesn't already provide that.

[small marsh]

What kind of projects can I expect?

[dusky fable]

What is the actual role that you want? The industry hires specialists, not generalists. Programmer are hired to write code, not 3d modeling.

[shut token]

No one can answer that but you

Pick whichever you enjoy more

[dusky fable]

A very wide range of them.

That's a personal question that only you can answer

Tutorials are primarily made by hobbyists, not professionals. So they won't really help you get a job. Certifications aren't relevant as none of them are actually well respected. You get a job by having the skills and proving that you have them.

Getting a job as a programmer is going to be very difficult without a CS degree though.

[shut token]

Just build shit.

That's the secret

That's the shortcut

Build shit

Do what you enjoy. Not what is "easier"

#career-chat message

[dusky fable]

They are both difficult, but for different reasons. Programming you need the CS foundations that a lot of self taught devs never learn. Sure your portfolio might get you an interview, but you won't pass a technical interview without the foundations.

Level design is more about the end result. What a level feels like to play through. But the design discipline has a lot of competition.