career-chat

[vale igloo]

is 500 lines of code a day a real thing unless you're working on a brand new project?

[sage ember]

500 probably over-estimated. yes depends on project. if it's a new project you could average that. if you are supporting an existing project and mostly fixing bugs / adding small features then much lower.

obviously depends on industry as well. overall it's a terribly pointless datapoint

[vale igloo]

over a year, i think it goes to about 100k total, not a million considering how much rewriting and refactoring takes place

even if you are writing 500 / day

[sage ember]

yeah i was estimating over the course of 8 years

[vale igloo]

ah ok

i guess if it's 8 different projects

new one every year

if you work that hard 8 years in a row... i don't know if that's a sustainable pace

need time for burnout and sabbaticals

life crises

you know, the usual

failed attempt to change career

joining a buddhist monastary

briefly

[sage ember]

500 per day for 252 days a year really isn't that crazy

[vale igloo]

for 8 years in a row tho?

[sage ember]

thats a couple functions

[vale igloo]

functions are 250 loc?

i knew C++ was verbose but damn

[sage ember]

i'm including school, but yes

[sage ember]

c++ is a verbose abomination

[vale igloo]

it's hard coming back to C++ from F#, that's for sure

[sage ember]

with header + implementation files you are already at 2x against your peasant peers in python

[steady pewter]

lmao, what LOCs means to you guys

[vale igloo]

lines of code

[steady pewter]

I know.

Like, what value brings to you.

[vale igloo]

LOC = technical debt

that's what it means to me

[sage ember]

0 value, this just diverged into a funny topic

[vale igloo]

all code is bad, but some code is worse than others

ofc i'm partly kidding

but partly not

[sage ember]

honestly i sometimes prefer simple and verbose to overcomplicated unreadable

[steady pewter]

Probably better to switch to #programmer-hangout on that topic too.
LOCs are in general, management tryint to make sense of the world w/o having a clue wtf is going on.

[vale igloo]

we'll swing it back around to career

speaking of loc's

[sage ember]

heres a question for career-chat... what percent of games released on steam earn at least $50k a year? what do you think their average budget was?

[vale igloo]

where would you find stats like that?

[sage ember]

there are some steam stats posted out there

[vale igloo]

$50k gross or net?

[sage ember]

gross

[vale igloo]

there's a couple sites, but none of their query engines seem to give me the filters you want

[sage ember]

yeah i'm not sure myself, thats why i'm asking

from an article in 2022

so somewhere around 75th percentile

[quartz elk]

hello maybe this has been asked so many times,
but as a c++ software enginner im learning unreal but i would like to have a carrer later on video using unreal so...
is there any real professional unreal certification course or test i can take ?? so i can add it to the curriculum or what it's the strongets option for showing that u learned unreal so u can get a job?

[ashen lynx]

Luckily, certification still hasnt poisoned the industry and at least for now, thankfully, a certificate you might possess is mostly worthless. As for course with aim of actual learning, there are quite a few worthy ones.

[woeful iron]

not in my experience lol, I go days where I write somewhere between 0 and 10 lines lmao

more code does not mean you're more productive

[plucky hatch]

Why does this rejection letter from this company says " Unfortunately, we inform you that we have decided to select another profile corresponding more to what we are looking for." while I have the experience and the qualifications needed for the job

lol

makes no sense

[chilly sundial]

The other person may have had more experience and qualifications, or had more relevant skills.

If the job lists 2 years of experience say, and 1 shipped title, but someone applies with 3 years and 2 shipped titles, theyre probably going to be the better candidate

[forest dagger]

Entry level positions be like, must have 5 yrs experience and have 3 AAA releases. Must be available 24 hours a day and we'll versed in every aspect of UE. Also must be willing to donate kidney at any given point.

250 a week. Take it or leave it.

[obtuse dock]

I just read some job offers in #salary-jobs and one stands out in particular

wish we were able to laugh react them

[obtuse dock]

all of em are like this on the internet I swear

the jobs I get people ask me to work for them and I just say a figure and they go OK

they don't check how much experience I have after I just show what I have done alone lol

I like indie companies way more, since usually they don't care how much experience you have on paper, but what you actually know

[forest dagger]

Bruh i would work my nuts off if I could just find someone willing to actually pay me

I am not even asking to be paid alot. Just the same as what I'm getting now as a free lance artist.

I'm so done drawing peoples weird ass OC's.

[earnest pecan]

hello, I have a meeting with a venture capitalist in a few days and I'm a bit nervous and I feel like I'm under prepared, what do I do?

I'm also looking for a few tips from people who've done the same

Thanks!

[earnest pecan]

how much is it? if I can ask, of course

[obtuse dock]

Same here, since I want an actual side gig currently, just some 15$/h gig to make some extra cash, but all I see is senior positions with ridiculous requirements. Salary positions are hard when I still study at uni. I have one company that is willing to compromise for me, but they are local and pay local salaries (Poland), which in the world stage isn't all that much.

[obtuse dock]

VC means Venture Capital to me, am I missing something?

or Version Control

but that doesn't make sense

[earnest pecan]

yes, venture capital, should've clarified that

[forest dagger]

I would work as an env artist for 35k a year

I make that much now but have to pay taxes so I lose about 5k of that.

[obtuse dock]

I mean generally speaking, all that matters is charisma and a solid foundation. The reality is that as long as you can sell your idea, meaning speak well, you can easily negotiate good terms and secure funding. Me personally, I would never want to go that route, as you tie a ball and chain to your leg by working with publishers/investors. That being said, if you seem stressed or like you have doubts you will fail. You need to have infinite confidence in what you're saying without seeming arrogant. So the confidence needs to be in your product.

[earnest pecan]

I like to think I can be confident even if I'm nervous, is that all it really takes?

I'm going the Pub/VC way because I don't have the money to do it myself. And of course, working alongside people with experience is a huge plus.

[obtuse dock]

At least as an artist I can tell from experience that you can make way more than a programmer if you're good at it. I cannot find any freelance gigs for example, artists can take on plenty. The downside is that it's hard to find people that are willing to sign contracts and LEGALLY pay you.

[obtuse dock]

This is just a general life thing, confidence is 90%. Job interviews, relationships, business talk, all of it.

We convince other people in our beliefs because of our confidence.

[earnest pecan]

Huh. That doesn't sound that bad, tbh.

[obtuse dock]

That being said, the project matters a lot with outside funding. As they will most likely have some checklist approach to it, so it is probably 50/50 concept and confidence.

It tends to be easy to get to places with confidence, but afterwards it can all fail due to a lack of skill. So you need to have confidence first, then skills later to back it up.

[earnest pecan]

I'm sure of the concept and I can make do with the confidence so I'm guessing I'm set? I'll need to find some FAQs and see if I can answer them first.

[forest dagger]

I can outwork anyone, I live to make stuff. It just so damn hard to get a foot in so you have any credible references.

[earnest pecan]

Probably a stupid question but do you have a LinkedIn and a portfolio?

[obtuse dock]

Even if they ask you a question you can get it wrong, as long as u answer most questions they ask u. On the ones where you have no clue u need to improvise on the spot with no doubt. Never go I don't know or similar.

[forest dagger]

I do. Would you like to see them?>

[obtuse dock]

Show me your ArtStation then. That's how you get all the gigs, people will talk to you on their own if you're a good artist and have it all displayed on ArtStation.

[earnest pecan]

I deleted my LinkedIn so I can start from scratch but I haven't done it yet but show me the portfolio!

[forest dagger]

https://www.artstation.com/agentpapercraft

Ive got a lot of stuff to upload to it still.

[earnest pecan]

That is a VERY good thing to note and for that, thanks!

[earnest pecan]

you should do that ASAP

[forest dagger]

Honestly I should make a point to get that in monday morning

I have like 4 scenes that all my asset work is done for, I just need to assemble the scene and be done

[earnest pecan]

imho, your portfolio looks great but it's a bit small, so adding more stuff should help

[forest dagger]

Bottom is all one material.

Was trying to see if I could make a fairly robust kit with 1 trim

[obtuse dock]

Yeah, you have too little. Your newest works are good, but they are nothing special. The room you made is nice. There is just a lot of detail missing in your art, lack of attention to detail is what I'd say.

[forest dagger]

Yeah that's what I meant by just assembling a scene.

I have tons of assets just nothing that I've put together to show any cohesion.

Lack of time is biggest issue, trying to keep up with 3d work along with my commission work is difficult.

[obtuse dock]

If you make tons of assets, but not as detailed it is a really good idea to put them in a world like in that room you made. That covers it up and makes everything feel complete.

[forest dagger]

I'm stretch very thinly between commission work and irl distractions.

[earnest pecan]

why can't you add your commission work in the portfolio? ofc you should probably be asking for permission first but I don't see why you can't do that

[forest dagger]

Remember the part where I said I'm tired of drawing peoples weird OC's

Those images are not fit for human eyes.

[earnest pecan]

oh

[forest dagger]

Hethen works of the depraved.

[earnest pecan]

that is messed up

[forest dagger]

But good money though.

[earnest pecan]

whatever you have to do to make a living, no?

[forest dagger]

I won't lie, those clients while very peculiar in their tastes, have always been nice.

Very patient and very willing to pay up front no questions asked.

[obtuse dock]

They always pay on time.

[earnest pecan]

I didn't know that, damn

[forest dagger]

But there's only so many DnT's you can draw before you start to wither.

[obtuse dock]

We as a studio have decided to go into that industry if we can't make it. Pays very well.

[forest dagger]

In that case Dust, I'm hired, it's a pleasure to work for you.

[obtuse dock]

hahaha, I could just create nsfw games with my character artist

don't need more people

[forest dagger]

True that, tbh I just wanna make stylized game worlds.

[obtuse dock]

plus we are broke, looking to go for funding soon, but we will launch a kickstarter

[forest dagger]

I think realism is overrated and overdone

[obtuse dock]

Yeah, everything we do is just realistic.

[obtuse dock]

not really actually

I think it depends heavily on what you create

[forest dagger]

Most video games lack personality through creative styling. Even genres of realism are feeling worn out.

[earnest pecan]

there's a reason it's that way

[forest dagger]

Medieval and Scifi especially.

[obtuse dock]

We do medieval realism for our game, because of demand and it fitting the theme of a dark grim medieval game.

[earnest pecan]

people want a fantasy at a place they can relate to (sorry, I'm struggling to word this properly)

[obtuse dock]

I feel like with stylized games people quickly get enough of it and drop it

[earnest pecan]

what I mean is that realism is popular because it's something everyone sees and there's a lot of what ifs that they could find answers to in a game

the same can't be said for stylized games

[forest dagger]

There's plenty of good examples to the contrary.

Botw and Totk are immediate examples that come to mind.

[earnest pecan]

and there's also the stigma, stylised/animated = for kids

[obtuse dock]

I'm gonna drop a little nuke in terms of opinions. Somebody who can do realism well, can do stylized well. Somebody who can do stylized well, does realism terribly. In terms of job market I'd always hire somebody who can make nice, detailed realistic models.

[forest dagger]

Octopath has a fantastically unique style.

[obtuse dock]

released by square enix, but niche

due to the art style and type of game

it's not for everybody

[earnest pecan]

that's not a mass appeal kinda game, no?

[earnest pecan]

exactly

[forest dagger]

Zelda is indeed, but its also because it's earned.

That game undeniably has a particular style that sorta ebbs and flows over the years but somehow remain consistent even through it's differences.

[obtuse dock]

older games and nintendo especially get a pass for what they do, because nostalgia outweighs everything

they can't change it, because they don't cater to new players

so that's why it looks how it looks

[forest dagger]

But thats not to say you can't have realism but still be styled in a way.

[obtuse dock]

Rust does that well, styled realism

[forest dagger]

So I'm not necessarily saying pbr is lame, I want cel shading, I'm just kinda tired of every other game being over realistic point bang game with very little visual flair other than gore and goop.

Atomic Heart is a great example of doing it kinda right, if its not all that fun to play (just my opinion)

[obtuse dock]

Atomic Heart is unfinished and all looks

You get 3 quests on repeat and an unfinished open world

[forest dagger]

I've only played like 2 hours of it, I really dont know how the game stacks up overall

[obtuse dock]

and a mediocre story

with an abrupt nonsensical ending

I say they ran out of budget halfway.

[forest dagger]

I just think the environments early on are impressive and different from what you would normally see.

[obtuse dock]

Yes, 100%

but the more u go on, the more it lacks

The first 2 hours are fairly good

[forest dagger]

Thats a shame. I was really hoping it would be just as nice all the way through.

Heavy Bioshock vibes.

[obtuse dock]

It keeps on looking well

but the gameplay sucks

and the story

plus they reuse assets a lot

so it feels repetitive

[forest dagger]

That was very evident pretty early on.

I kinda now want to make something Very Big-O in style, animated Batman 90's gothic cityscape

[teal tiger]

Hey guys, not sure if this is the right place to ask, but not sure where else it would fit.

Regarding MegaGrants; can (or should) the potential funds be used on developer salaries?

Receiving a grant would allow our team of two to quit our jobs and work full-time on our game for a year (depending on funding amount).

Is this a reasonable use of funds? Or does Epic only want the funds to be used for things like marketing and developer training?

Any input is appreciated!

[forest dagger]

Yeah thats the intended use for Megagrants.

Other than keeping your software liscenses up to date.

I kinda got some insider tips about getting accepted to those megagrants.

If you care to hear them.

[teal tiger]

@forest dagger Thanks for clearing up! Please do share! Either here or in DM, either way is fine for me!

[obtuse dock]

I mean generally they give megagrants out to projects which are crap, but look good visually and have a good trailer.

Sad reality of it.

[plucky hatch]

There is one thing that somewhat scares me about applying to studios: I could apply for german, dutch, belgian, scandinavia, etc. But I'd certainly not be able to properly live there to the fullest without learning the local language.

I wonder how war refugees get to live far away from home and their case is even harsher. Language barrier + no degree, no visa, anything. Sometimes they are running for their lives with absolutely nothing, maybe 1 dollar...

I gave up my degree without finishing it and don't plan on going back because what I want to learn can be learned without going to any uni.

[neat crag]

Most places the game industry is pretty well versed in english, and scandinavia perhaps one of the easier places to get along with english in general life. If you can stand the cold, dark, neverending winters...

[plucky hatch]

https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/company/careers/search/743999910385563-level-designer This job opening for example. If I don't have any shipped games and don't have a degree. Then, applying for it would be a waste of time?

[spice dagger]

Not necessarily. If you can provide sufficient evidence/experience to support that you can fill the position.

"You lose all the shots you dont take."

[plucky hatch]

I imagine that the degree req is caused by the Canadian laws

[spice dagger]

🤷

Its likely to also just make their job easier in so far as the majority of their applications can demonstrate some level of education.

The industry is full of self taught individuals. Myself included.

Job applications are about demonstrating you can do the work.

If your experience doesnt fit neatly into their criteria, doesnt necessarily mean it isnt relevant or wouldnt land you the job.

[plucky hatch]

what if the company doesn't have any entry level job opening? Would it be a waste to contact them?

[spice dagger]

Depends on the company I guess

AAA, probably a waste of time yeah, as they would likely get so many applicants they wouldnt bother keeping you on record for "just incase" one position does become available that fits your portfolio/skills.

Indies are more likely to keep you on file for later.

[chilly sundial]

Can confirm. Not exactly all game industry but every smaller place i got rejected from sent me an email saying that theyd keep me on file in case anything fitting came up

[plucky hatch]

that's good hope

[pastel estuary]

i've only send one resume in my life XD

[pastel estuary]

@wanton stag please post this in #hardware instead.

[wanton stag]

Ah thanks just did

[plucky hatch]

I find it interesting that many artists and designers have degrees not in arts, but in science or engineering

[past edge]

hi you maybe already had this discussion, but I am an aspiring 3d artist and i was wondering if with the new advancements of AIs this is still a career worth pursuing. I would like something deeper than the usual "AI is just a tool" because a lot of 2D artists said the same thing and are now out of job. I really like 3d but i don't want my job to be inserting propmts into an AI and touch up the result i want to create interesting shapes and make my art feel personal. I do have a background in coding and technical art so that might be a better option. I am really scared about the future and i don't which direction i want to take, so if somebody could help i would be really grateful.

[royal lintel]

I'd love to see who has actually lost their jobs as a result of "ai art". Not that it won't happen, but it certainly hasn't happened on a large scale yet. Some people who would have otherwised turned to freelancers might be using AI art, but those aren't stable positions in the first place. As an industry I don't think AI has had a huge impact yet - there's a lot of hype but not a whole lot of substance beyond tech demos at the moment, and 2d artists have hardly been replaced.
No one can tell you what will happen in the future, but I'd start by evaluating whether your impression of what's happening in the industry right now is actually correct.

[wary idol]

If anything I'm seeing more and more artists starting to utilize AI tools to their advantage
It's a tool, not a replacement

[past edge]

@royal lintel there are numerous articles on the internet i also read this post on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blender/comments/121lhfq/i_lost_everything_that_made_me_love_my_job/ which wasn't encouraging

[royal lintel]

A few small companies making bad decisions is not an industry trend

whenever there's a bunch of hype for something new this happens - and you have to be able to separate what's an actual trend from the BS

Anyone saying "AI art has replaced all of our 2d artists" is either trying to sell you something, is repeating the words of someone who is trying to sell you something, or is talking about a very specific situation that doesn't apply to the industry at large.
Or is just interested in the tech, but that's not grounds to make large claims about an industry.

[wary idol]

There has also been an increase in made up and fake stories to make AI look worse than it is

[past edge]

i know that i have tried this tools myself and they are not perfect, but they are evolving fast and in a few years they might create very good results

[royal lintel]

Great, but that doesn't apply to 3d at the moment and you're basing your fears on an incorrect assumption in the first place.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but evaluate whether your fears are based on what is currently happening, first.

[past edge]

i look at Luma AI and their models are shit most of the times, but in 5-6 years they could be as good as the ones i make myself, so that's what i am wandering if an AI will be able to make 3d models as good as mines that why would somebody hire me

and as i said if my job will become inserting prompts all day i would much rather do something else

[royal lintel]

There's a ton of stuff blown up just by the huge valuations for the various AI startups. Any new big VC-backed thing ends up like that unfortunately, and "mainstream" media does a horrible job of actually checking whether anything being said is remotely reasonable or true.

[wary idol]

AI art is great for brainstorming and experimenting but for actual work I wouldn't consider it anything more than stock image websites
(and I mean I'm saying that as somone who has generated like 30k AI images for fun lol)

[royal lintel]

Will they? It's not just about having models that can generate content. It's about knowing what is needed for a project, knowing how to create content that is specifically suitable for said project, and being able to take and work with feedback given by project leads.
If you can generate a model, can it create one in the specific style required by the project? With the specific polygon budgets? With the specific texturing and material requirements as set by tech art?
We're on the horizon of tools being made to make each of these individual steps easier, but we are very far away from an art director being able to just list out everything they want and magically have it land on their computer.

Studios that try in the near term (and don't get me wrong - there definitely will be those that try) will likely find themselves lacking - either because their workflows are completely screwed due to a lack of people who know what they're doing, or because they can only put out generic or half-baked content.

[wary idol]

it's the same story with GPT replacing programmers... which ain't happening any time soon

[past edge]

so basically when ai will replace me it will have already replaced everybody else

[royal lintel]

heh

potentially

I figure by that point we're all screwed anyway

[past edge]

the world feels more and more like a dystopian novel

[royal lintel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wind bay]

my view might be a bit shallow because I don't have any experience in the game dev industry, but while I do see ai reducing the amount of jobs in the industry at companies significantly, I also see it shifting a lot more power to individual / indie creators

it does seem less stable but i think there is both a give and take

[round radish]

AI can only do so much currently. It can't actually create good content, other than some 2d images.

And people will shit themselves if you make an entire game with ai generated 2d content.

Sure, it can help with coding, yes, but it's not a replacement for actual coders. It's a tool to help them work.

[wind bay]

it's changing the scale of what an individual can create, i think

[round radish]

Well, it can create music too now, I suppose.

Not really. It can make learning easier.

What, exactly, can AI do (that it hasn't been able to do for the last 10-20 years) right now that lets a single dev create a much bigger game?

[wind bay]

i guess... draft?

[round radish]

Draft what?

[wind bay]

anything, like art or music

or code

it wont create a final product but it can create something to build off of

[round radish]

So it's an idea machine.

[wind bay]

or just speed up the implementation of your ideas

also i'm not like a diehard ai apologist, i just think there are both ups and downs

[round radish]

I think AI is great. It's definitely the future. But it's not taking jobs just yet, unless you're a 2d artist.

[wind bay]

strong emphasis on yet

[round radish]

Indeed.

Give it 5 years and maybe we'll all be out of a job. Shrug

[wind bay]

but when you think about what it means for ai to take jobs, it's a displacement of power from teams to an individual

but those people displaced from their team also have access to those tools, hopefully

[woeful iron]

finally mr Bezos will be able to be paid fairly thanks to AI

[brave forge]

Fiverr is going to be decimated by it is my guess. Smaller tasks, where you are aware of quality or scaling limits

[wind bay]

idk, to me it seems like if the scale of what an individual can do is changing, then all that would happen to fiverr is the scale of what's delivered changes

but that could be ignorantly optimistic

[brave forge]

I kind of view it similarly but different. The scale of what someone will be able to do does change, but that's not a good thing for short term/gig workers. Why would you go to Fiverr for a logo if AI can do it for you? Especially if the Fiverr contractor is just going to do that.

[wind bay]

that's true

i cant exactly picture what the gig market provides in stead of what is made obsolete

but i feel like it won't die

[plucky hatch]

how can i make money with making games with unreal engine?

[shut token]

Release them

[chilly sundial]

Yeah it's pretty much the only way :P

Fr tho, you'll want to be good at marketing. You could make the best game since sliced bread, but if you can't effectively market it, then it will flop

[hazy idol]

Hello Guys! How can I get Unreal Engine Junior Job? I have 1 game released and I have a few project for learning, and practicing!

I have 2 years experience , in the last 1 year I developed every day...

or should I send it that project?

[round radish]

Apply for them.

[hazy idol]

That' okey, but what I need for the apply? A portfolio? but I have only 1 game. Maybe I need to make a short video from my projects?

[round radish]

You don't "need" anything. It depends on the job...

[lusty peak]

I disagree with Daekesh, not sure what their position is but if you're working in
programming: they are going to want to see a github with ur projects

level/game design: portfolio with breakdowns

game art: artstation at minimum

[round radish]

I'm just being pedantic, but you don't "need" any of that. It is highly desirable, of course.

[mint skiff]

https://youtu.be/93_6P-hXFGY

[modern relic]

So basically what you are saying is that you will hire me?

[steady pewter]

Why hiring when one can AskGPT

[ivory echo]

People hallucinate less when they’re on shrooms than ChatGPT does when you ask it for instructions in Unreal

[steady pewter]

#instructions

[vestal lodge]

I applied for Unreal Programmer and they have asked for UE samples? What do I need to send them.

[round radish]

Is it a c++ or BP position?

Let's face it, it's going to be c++. Have you done any c++ in UE before?

[vestal lodge]

I did work in C++ but my work projects are in bp

[round radish]

Then I suggest you spend a couple of months learning c++ in unreal and hope they hire someone else?

Or maybe a week?

[vestal lodge]

I know C++. I have worked on it but they have asked for UE samples but my previous requirements in projects was bp.

This is why I am confused. Its not like I don't know C++.

[round radish]

"Your previous requirements" ? They wanted people experienced in BP?

The UE c++ library / way of doing things is very different from your standard c++ stuff.

[vestal lodge]

I work on C++ projects in UE but when I started working professionally in my job role all the projects I got was I had to work in Blueprints.

To better understand it, I don't have those C++ projects anymore and all the latest projects are in bp

[round radish]

Then I would tidy up some of the c++ projects you did in UE and send them some stuff.

...make some C++ projects?

If you have the skills, you can get some good stuff done in a day. A week tops.

It probably doesn't even have to work.

It just has to look good and show you have some idea of what you're doing.

[vestal lodge]

Thanks

[round radish]

I would make something that is related to the job you're applying for too.

[vestal lodge]

No problem, Thanks man, it will take some extra time but i will be doing it myself.

[round radish]

Good luck!

I had to learn slate when I got an interview for my current job. That was a fun week!

I now use slate all the time and want to ki... have super awesome times.

[past cradle]

heyo

Im wanting to sign a contract for making a map in forntnite

but they want me to support any issues the map might have for 24 months, for 15 percent of the revenue, should I sign it?

[slate garden]

Not sure how applicable this is without reading the full thread: As a hiring manager we have a written test, if it doesn't work it's an immediate fail and reject.

If you're offering up code ahead of time you might be able to get away with it not working, but I wouldn't advise it.

[slate garden]

no, unless they also guarantee you a minimum payment for support

[round radish]

They asked for code samples, not working projects.

I obviously wouldn't advise you submit untested or broken code.

[slate garden]

ah if they asked for samples yeah, it wouldn't necessarily have to work

I'd say you'd be surprised at how often folks send in tests that don't meet spec, but you porbably wouldn't be

[past cradle]

how much should i request for 2 years of support? like my hourly rate?

[slate garden]

Yeah something like that, or put a maximum hour limit on it. The real thought is 'don't be on the hook for unlimited support for no guaranteed money'

[chilly sundial]

Dont be on the hook for any work without guaranteed money

[slate garden]

^ the much preferred version. Some folks just might be a little more risk tolerant

[past cradle]

Is 35 an hour sound good?

Or should I go higher?

[slate garden]

That all depends on what you're doing and how much you value your time

[chilly sundial]

Yep. It also depends on your experience, and how good you actually are. And be honest with that. And if you cant, don't freelance :P

[brave cairn]

Looking to hire - Looking for a realistic world creation / generation which can be used to render 4k60 camera shots of the world (think drone shots, cool angles etc) End result will be a 30 min to 1h video compilation of cool shots of the world. More info in DM's

[modern relic]

#instructions

[plucky hatch]

@keen spear I have sent you a friend request to discuss my potential application. You can find my freelancer profile in #hire-a-freelancer.

[plucky hatch]

@steel creek questions?

[steel creek]

you are in the wrong place

[plucky hatch]

Guess I could have dropped a text at lounge but this felt more on point to me.

[steel creek]

Good for you; its not

[plucky hatch]

I got rejected

Although we were impressed with your experience and qualifications, we decided to move forward with candidates who fit our requirements more closely.

This is a sentence from the email

so how am I supposed to know what qualifications im missing or what in my CV is not good?

They were asking for 2 years experience

and I have more

...

Why do they do this?

I can't even reply aswell to ask...

[ivory echo]

Welcome to applying to literally any job

In game dev or otherwise

That’s just a boilerplate reply they use. It just means someone had higher qualifications or they just liked them better for their company, don’t read too much into that wording.

It’s unlikely that an employer will actually tell you why you weren’t picked

Just move onto the next opportunity

[round radish]

Why not?

The email may be a no-reply, but there must be some other way to contact teh company.

[ivory echo]

I doubt they will actually tell him yeah, we didn’t pick you because this other guy had 8 years of xp and codes directly in assembly

But maybe

[loud musk]

what did you apply for ?
job role ?

[modern relic]

Supreme Chief Executive Senior Lead Game Development Director

[chilly sundial]

You summoned me?

[plucky hatch]

why

[chilly sundial]

:P

[chilly sundial]

Busy. Recruiters are busy.

That would be my best guess

[modern relic]

Mate that's me

[chilly sundial]

Oh I apologise, I forgot that I am the Supreme Chief Super Executive Senior Lead Game Development Director

[modern relic]

It'd OK, easy mistake

[chilly sundial]

Imagine that one though. Your title would be a whole paragraph of your CV 🤣

[modern relic]

That's the plan

[slate garden]

A lot of time companies won't tell you the reason for fear of legal repercussions, just let it slide off your back to the best of your ability. And it sucks. If you do try to chase down feedback maybe try to make it sound more proactive. e.g.
"What skills would your team recommend I focus on for the future?"
instead of
"What wasn't good enough?"

[plucky hatch]

Development tester

at Behaviour Interactive

[slate garden]

sounds like a position with a lot of competition at a well known developer who recently released a big hit, so likely to get a good chunk of the competition. They probably hired someone else.

[plucky hatch]

lol what

legal repercussion?

for giving useful advice?

lol

[ivory echo]

You ever see a Warning: Hot label on a coffee cup?

[plucky hatch]

sometimes

[ivory echo]

It’s not (only) because people are too dumb, but also because they try to get a nice easy payday by suing companies for stupid stuff. In this case, if an employer says “the wrong thing” when rejecting you, they expose themselves to legal liability

So instead they just use tried and tested rejection templates such as “you’re so great but we went with someone that better fits our criteria”

Let you down gently and placate you

You apply to enough jobs you’ll see that same reply many times, unless ofc you get the job 😀

[plucky hatch]

ya so I doubt they will even answer me when I ask them why lol

oh well

[gaunt crescent]

The best way to get people to answer you about it is to ask for areas you could improve. Still not getting a reply 99.9% of the time, but someone might take the time to respond

[green oyster]

Yeah ok but that mc coffee was like 90 C. What stupid stuff can you do with it aren't you supposed to drink it??

[brave forge]

Yep that case was messed up. The woman needed skin grafts, but McDonald's leant into the media spreading that BS about it just being a silly complaint.

[regal perch]

This 1000%. If you are in the ballpark or close to getting the job often the person recruiting would respond to an email like that. This is if they have time to do so (light on their workload, which is rarely the case), or they think they could hire you if you improved in those areas. I've either directly hired, or helped hire about 300 people for video games so far.

Sometimes the recruiter is a full time recruiter, who doesn't know why the lead said pass. Other times its a lead who is going through portfolios and emails who just doesn't have time to get their work done, let alone hire someone, let alone respond to someone. When I worked as an art director on League of Legends I had an amazing art recruiter who had a great eye, he would respond to almost everyone. When I was the 3D art director on Wildstar is was just me, leading 3 teams, doing key art, and going through 20 candidates a day (it was hard to respond to anyone). @plucky hatch

[random sphinx]

how to big big games hehe

[woeful iron]

well first you big game, and then when you're ready you move on to big big game

[white steppe]

How is the case like after the application, even no rejection letter? Is that very common?
I mean if I were the employer, at least a template rejection is better than nothing.

[steady pewter]

Pretty common.

[woeful iron]

if you had an interview already, most of the time they will at least tell you you're not selected

but don't expect more

if you haven't had "face-to-face" with them, not getting any answer when not selected is the standard in my experience

[white steppe]

Is it because the hiring manager too busy?

[steady pewter]

You, sending a message/application does not mean you will get a reply.

[white steppe]

I mean it doesn't take you more than 30 seconds to click a template to reply but it is much better for the person who applied. Maybe just my image that the company even don't want to do this, probably wont look the employee as a humen more than a machine.

[woeful iron]

well I'm not a recruiter, can't tell you why

[mint skiff]

a lot of companies use machine filtering early on.

[woeful iron]

but I imagine a lot of profiles are already filtered out based on CV, often even by software, so at that point it's not really worth the effort to send anything I guess

[white steppe]

That's the worst case, using AI to hire, lol. The hiring manager should quit

[steady pewter]

I haven't heard someone getting a reply just because they send a CV. Wtf, really.

[woeful iron]

well, most big companies do that already though

scanning for keywords, seeing how close you match what they want

[mint skiff]

maybe they don't want to give the impression that any professional relationship exists 🤷‍♂️

[white steppe]

How about just copy pasting their job description, that's rediculous.

[woeful iron]

that's why you can put 200 buzz-words at the bottom of your CV in white small font to trick them 😎

[mint skiff]

otherwise you will get a million people asking for feedback

[woeful iron]

do you think it's rude for a celeb to not send you a reply if you DM them

very similar in some ways

[steady pewter]

Yeah, especially for anything more bigger as a company.
On other hand, some ppl might like to get cancelled explicitly 🙂

[white steppe]

Not really feedback, but you know, just like thank you for your application, but blah blah.

[steady pewter]

Naaah, lol

[mint skiff]

that's my point, once you send that you've established a relationship

[woeful iron]

you probably get an automated email that they received your application

but that's it

[mint skiff]

and the applicant is more likely to follow up, which they may not want

[steady pewter]

Waste of electrons even that, imo.

[woeful iron]

well I think it's nice to know that their system is working

I needed support for something one time, and went to their site to a contact form, clicked on send, and it just reloaded to their homepage

I had no idea if it actually went through or not

[steady pewter]

No, their corpo system is not working.

[woeful iron]

so I sent it like 3 times, turns out it was working after all lol

[steady pewter]

They don't receive CVs and nobody knows.

[royal lintel]

The reality is that many recruiters and hiring managers simply won't respond if you weren't selected. End of story. It sucks, but welcome to job hunting. It really doesn't matter how much you argue about it, or make whatever points that have been made by tons of people plenty of times. It's just how things are.

[white steppe]

Yeah, somehow it feels better the process is handled by head hunting agents.

[steady pewter]

I frankly don't see why you should get any kind of reply. You should get one, only if you established a communication. They send you, you replied and etc.

[white steppe]

At least you will get the feedback and sometimes even the improvment suggestion.

[royal lintel]

imo if you get any sort of positive response then they should at least send a rejection. If it was just you filling out an application and they never respond then yeah, w/e.

[woeful iron]

depends on what you mean with head hunting agencies

but like external recruiters are the worst

in my experience

they don't know shit about the job they're hiring for a lot of the time

[steady pewter]

yep

[woeful iron]

they spam call you all the time

[royal lintel]

Internal recruiters don't always know either 😛
the hiring managers do, but at that point you're probably into "actual" interviews.

Some of the recruiter spam I've gotten is hilarious

[woeful iron]

depends on the company I guess

[white steppe]

You can pick the external recruiters you like, you are the client😛

[woeful iron]

I had this one dude call me one time I told him I'm busy, you have 5 min, he continued to talk for 20, I told him send me your website and I'll contact you back, he proceeded to call me 4 days in a row after that, without me picking up. At that point I'm not even interested anymore

[woeful iron]

I don't pick anything, they call me

[royal lintel]

I've never been cold called by a recruiter, thankfully.

Plenty of linkedin messages and emails though.

Usually for positions that have nothing to do with my work.

[white steppe]

Just tell them not interested, they won't waste time on you, usually...

[woeful iron]

clearly you have never been called by a recruiter

[white steppe]

Not cold called, truly.

[woeful iron]

yeah that too, a bunch for full stack crap with 80% required skills that I've never touched

[royal lintel]

I've gotten exactly one recruitment message from that kind of thing that I've actually been interested in. Seemingly the only recruiter in the world that actually was looking for a role that matched my work history lol.

Didn't take them up on it, but was tempted.

[white steppe]

So in this case, I do really doubt the internal recruiters really know what they are doing and reject the candidates because of ignorance.

[woeful iron]

I had 1 recruiter that sent me something interesting (which is the job I have now), but I told him I was interested, but he continued to ignore me for 3 weeks, so I just applied myself

[royal lintel]

The situation I'm talking about isn't really that

[woeful iron]

his loss

[royal lintel]

it's mass spam towards anyone who matches a few keywords

The "best" messages I've gotten were for roles that were obviously for the (large) company I was already at but low-level contract (when I was already FTE). Like shit, didn't even read the most recent place I worked.

[woeful iron]

lol

getting hired for the company you already work at

power move

never had that happen yet

[white steppe]

I've got once but yeah, even from the big company internal recruiters. Pretty ridiculous like hiring a person working in the same company but not the same studio.

[frozen flax]

do we have a german freelancer here?

would love to ask a couple questions

[regal perch]

Generally recruiters are the ones that send the template letters. Leads hiring generally don't have time to send back a template rejection letter. Most video game companies aren't extremely organized on the recruiting side from a hand off perspective.

[woeful iron]

it's not like it's unique to video game companies either though

[regal perch]

I assumed this much. I've only ever worked in video games really (23 years now...I'm getting old). I don't count the part time jobs I worked when I was a teen. 🙂

[near obsidian]

23 ain’t old 💀💀💀… although I’m 17 and I do understand what you mean… I have five jobs at the same time but can’t find one in the Games industry unfortunately. Somehow I found myself working in hospital IT staff in London

[woeful iron]

he means 23 years in the industry now

I guess

[near obsidian]

Oh…

Nevermind…

🤣🤣🤣

I was so confused for a second

23 years in a videogame industry sounds fun

[woeful iron]

if he was only 23, his bio would be really impressive lol

[pastel estuary]

unless > getting hired for that role > found out he sucked at it > fired > repeat over the span of a few years XD

[woeful iron]

still being hired for the roles after getting so quicly hired would be impressive though

would be good conman

[round radish]

Talking of conmen.

I knew a guy who had a job as a delivery driver for over 2 years, fully paid, without ever having gotten a driving licence.

He did no deliveries.

[near obsidian]

💀

That’s mad

[wary idol]

That's what I keep telling myself lmao

[near obsidian]

😭😭

[granite briar]

Does the algorithms just search for the specific keywords or it also looks for the titles and the amount of information making CV structure also important?
I'm planning to remake my CV, because previously I focused on designing my CV thinking that it would make sense, but it feels like it is not even getting viewed, because it gets low score in algorithms that recruiters use (this is my assumption).

[woeful iron]

idk I don't make them

[granite briar]

I was just assuming that you maybe had experience with the process or knew someone who used the algorithms

[ivory echo]

Afaik both

[white steppe]

Would it like to be if you worked in a certain company and the algorithm filtered it out😆

[ivory echo]

One thing I learned the hard way is that most of those ATS systems cannot read anything that’s in a table or formatted weird. Copy your resume into Notepad, and if the info gets lost or is all over the place, you can be certain the ATS will miss it

[oak nexus]

Hi everyone 👋

I don't know if this is the right channel for a request like this, but if so, I would appreciate your help!

I'm planning to offer my self-created 3D assets on sales platforms, eventually as a bundle of assets, but I'm trying to figure out the best and most successful way to do that. In addition I'm trying to figure out how I can avoid fraudulent usage like refunded products kept on disc.

Maybe some of you here were able to gather experience due to this and hopefully you're willing to share your experience. So I would appreciate some helpful tips in this regard.

Thanks in advance!

Please ping me if you're replying to my request

[green oyster]

The only time I was asked for a refund on the marketplace was when it was bought by accident. I don't think it's really a problem.

From my experience the marketplace gets enough traffic to generate sales every month without any promotion as long as you make some cool screenshots, thumbnails and proper tags. And of course your work is top notch

[round radish]

If any marketplace allows refunds after download, you can't do anything to stop it really.

[oak nexus]

Firs of all, thanks for your reply!

@green oyster & @round radish
I'm trying my best to offer top notch products!
But even then it probably doesn't prevent from getting refund requests and I think it's okay to give customers the chance for refunding. However, what I don't want is a fraudulent usage of the refund policy and therefore I'm trying to figure out how I can prevent this.

[chilly sundial]

You cant

That's the simple answer

[oak nexus]

That's a pity!

Is there really no way?

[chilly sundial]

No

[round radish]

That's all down to the marketplace.

Whichever marketplace it is will obviously stop people who abuse the system.

[chilly sundial]

Even then there's no guarantees

Just like how you can't stop game piracy with all the DRM in the world

If someone wants to, they will use your stuff fraudulently

[woeful iron]

just like you can't stop people stealing your car

[chilly sundial]

I can

[woeful iron]

by not having one?

[chilly sundial]

By not having a car 😎

Damnit

Beat me to it

The thing with the assets is, there is nothing stopping me from using or distributing fraudulent copies of marketplace assets. However I won't, because I'm trying to make a product, and it's pretty scummy to sell a product made from stolen assets. That, and the fact that if someone is caught then you end up in very, very, very hot water

The most you can do, which isn't preventative, but more reactionary, is if you do have irrevocable proof that someone has shipped something with your assets after a refund (which in itself is extremely hard to prove), then you could start legal proceedings, given you have the funds

[round radish]

I mean is it really that hot water? You'll get a cease and desist and maybe a little sued.

If they find out.

They should take all of your money.

[woeful iron]

and they decide to sue

it's really not something to be thinking about

[round radish]

(my point here is not that you should do it and try to get away with it, but that there should be harsher penalties)

[chilly sundial]

I mean id say that's pretty hot water :P

You'd lose your reputation rather quickly I imagine :P

[woeful iron]

especially not on small scale

[chilly sundial]

For sure

[round radish]

For a large company, for sure, don't copy stuff ever ever ever (dark and darker lololololol)

[woeful iron]

how did that turn out with dark and darker?

or is it still ongoing?

[chilly sundial]

Anyone that tries to build something profitable, that contains things they themselves sold should have all proceeds of said thing split among those they stole it from.

Until the end of time

[round radish]

Not sure.

[woeful iron]

they were just marketplace assets right?

[chilly sundial]

That dark and darker thing is bs

[round radish]

Is it, though?

[chilly sundial]

Yep, half the assets were from blockout tools pluin

[woeful iron]

from what I've seen it was just MP assets, that the other company also used

[chilly sundial]

Yeah all the stuff is ue marketplace that they were licensed to use

[woeful iron]

like not actual theft

[round radish]

I thought it was code they were mainly accused of stealing?

[chilly sundial]

Nah, the company published a list of the uassets that were allegedly copied and I kid you not it's all marketplace from what I read through

Code was part of it, but I haven't seen any evidence to support code theft yet

[round radish]

A similar argument is made when looking at the characters from the Unreal Engine Marketplace. Though they admit that they don’t hold the copyright to the models that both games used, they claim protection in the selection of the models used, noting that Ironmace used many of the same models as a starting point despite multiple ones being available.

That's a dodgy argument, but I can see their point.

[chilly sundial]

That's still complete bs imo

Just like you can't copyright a set of rules

[round radish]

That said, Nexon also made allegations that source code was copied, but any evidence would likely have to be procured during discovery. In short, we can’t really say much about this and Nexon only says that Ironmace has not shared the code with them and that, “the fact of substantial similarity will be revealed when Ironmace is required to disclose its source code in discovery.”

[round radish]

You can copyright a name, though, and that's just a set of letters? Out of all the letters available, you can't have a set that is too similar to another set, despite other letters being available.

Obviously it's very shaky ground, but it's work that's been done by Nexon to select the models it wants to use has then been stolen by the dark and darker people.

[chilly sundial]

Names aren't copyrighted though

[round radish]

Maybe that isn't copyright theft, but it's still work they were paid to do for somebody else.

[green oyster]

It's a non issue. Seller contacts you for a refund and you have to emal Epic and request the refund. So you can just not approve it if it's something shady (it isn't)

[chilly sundial]

Copyright does not protect individual names, titles or phrases. Such items may easily be duplicated by coincidence, and are therefore not considered unique or substantial enough to be awarded copyright protection in their own right.

https://copyrightservice.co.uk/services/knowledge-base/kb_name#:~:text=Copyright does not protect individual,protection in their own right.

My source for that btw

The same could be logically applied for the "choice of mp characters"

Too easily duplicated under sheer coincidence

[round radish]

That's exactly what Nexon have cited.

For example, in their complaint, they note that both games had the exact same six classes of characters despite there are 12 in the original Dungeons and Dragons and other, similar games had much less overlap. They also noted that the art styles between the two games were very similar, including many similar features, even though both were distinct from the source material.

Like I say, it may not be coypright theft in a lot of cases, but they've clearly taken work they were paid to do by Nexon and used it for their own game.

And that isn't right.

[chilly sundial]

Idk I'm still leaning on team ironmace here

I wouldn't even say its clear

Most of dark and darker stuff is insanely generic

Just done well

And a massive company is throwing it's weight around

[round radish]

Last time I played, it wasn't even done well. 😦

[chilly sundial]

Just going to have to wait until discovery

Then we will find out what's actually happened

But dark and darker's classes are so generic.

Nexon are really trying to use the fact that they used a Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, Ranger, Wizard and Cleric as their classes?

Hell terraria does that pretty much entirely

That's just big standard template RPG stuff imo

[round radish]

To be honest, I'm surprised Nexon didn't have one of those contract clauses that specifies that anything you create/think oif while working there, even if not related to the work you're doing, is owned by Nexon.

Like universties and such do

[chilly sundial]

I'm so thankful my uni and my job doesn't have those clauses lol

[woeful iron]

I mean WoW would then just sue every fantasy mmorpg as well cause all classes of most mmorpgs are basically the same

every game does the same

[round radish]

WoW didn't start that, though, they just copied other games.

Yeah.

[woeful iron]

I know

I just mentioned them cause they're the biggest

[round radish]

If somebody created an exact copy of all their calsses, though, they'd have something to argue about, even if they were generic copies.

[chilly sundial]

Exactly. Dark and darker haven't stolen anything. They've used generic RPG elements, and another larger company is sad that the smaller company has more hype for it

That's my best guess at all this

[round radish]

Oh it's definitely sour grapes from Nexon.

That they shouldn't have cancelled the game and such.

But it's whether they have a point or not that matters.

[chilly sundial]

How many of those grapes are sour remain to be seen 🤔

Totally gonna eat my words when it turns out they did copy paste everything :P

[round radish]

Indeed.

[chilly sundial]

I wonder how much all these proceedings have cost thus far

[woeful iron]

so should all quiz type games be sued cause they have options a, b, c and d?

all exact copies of generic letters

[round radish]

I don't know how much they've copied of the classes.

But game show formats are owned by people.

[chilly sundial]

Or should cooking mama sue overcooked because their core game loop both involve cooking food under a strict time limit :P

[woeful iron]

should merriam-webster sue every game in existance for using words they put in their dictionary?

they're leaving a lot of money on the table

[chilly sundial]

Or book. Once you read the dictionary everything else is just a remix :P

[round radish]

They don't own the words.

They may very well own their own custom definitions of said words.

[woeful iron]

neither does nexxon own choosing classes

[round radish]

It's not about the classes, it's about copying the work done at Nexon.

For me at least.

[woeful iron]

"work done" can be copied if not exactly

[round radish]

"Legally distinct"

[woeful iron]

If I make a localisation system at a company for their game, I'm not prohibited from making a localisation plugin myself and selling it

as long as it's not a clear copy paste

[round radish]

Like would you be okay if you paid somebody to create an asset for you, but, after purchasing it, you decided not to use it and then they decided to change the colour slightly and release it?

[woeful iron]

you can still clearly prove they are the same

but if he made a very similar thing from scratch he could

[round radish]

And I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen with dark and darker and nexon.

[woeful iron]

I doubt it personally, just based on the kind of ridiculous claims nexxon is making I think their whole lawsuit is just a sour witchhunt

but it's possible

I'm not the judge, I just have an opinion

[chilly sundial]

Yeah I'm definitely getting the same vibes

I mean the amount nexon pulls in I have a feeling if there was any solid proof on nexon's part it would have been shut a long while ago.

First major red flag is releasing "copied" assets that are actually marketplace assets

[round radish]

They're definitely fishing.

[faint tartan]

Anyone got some tech interview questions they normally get when interviewing for jobs? I know roles are important but just curious on the range of questions and difficulty.

[shut token]

"How would you move this character from A to B?"
"How does the CMC work?"
"Create a small engine and a game with said engine"

(Yes, that last one is real)

[faint tartan]

jeeesus that last one is brutal what the.

[shut token]

Tech interviews are garbage. It's a roll of the die based on who you get and the prestige of the company.

[oblique ice]

Interview person : "rate your knowledge of unreal engine, 1-10"
me : " >_< "

[faint tartan]

I hate those questions too. It's been awhile since I've done the college level knowledge of C++ and was asked, 1 through 10 where is your C++ and I said "6 maybe" and they immediately followed up with "Alright what's the Vtable, how does it get made by the compiler, and what size does it add to the class in a 32bit compiler" I meant 2, sorry, I meant 2. I've refreshed that knowledge since then but damn lmao.

[woeful iron]

lol

[shut token]

Alright what's the Vtable
Virtual table. Not all that important for me to actually care about for this UI designer job.

how does it get made by the compiler
Static array baby 😎

what size does it add to the class in a 32bit compiler
Sounds googleable - why do I need to have this in my head at all times?

[faint tartan]

I need to gain that bravery for interviews lol

[shut token]

These aren't answers that you should actually give.

Play the rat race

[faint tartan]

Yeah I know, just sometimes it would be nice to be honest lol.

[shut token]

You can be more honest the more you know. If they really want you, they'll let it slide.

It also helps if you don't actually need the job.

[faint tartan]

Right.

[inner star]

what are the best industrys of unreal engine you could make a carrer out of?

[spice dagger]

What do you mean "industries"?

Do you mean what fields instead?

[round radish]

Engine tooling.

[inner star]

yes feilds

like ik game dev, video creation but what are some other good skills to build a carrer out of

[spice dagger]

Honestly you should be firstly asking yourself where are your interests? No point persuing a high paying field position if you hate doing that type of work.

Do you like being an artist?
Are you more of a programmer?

Do you prefer managing people/projects?

Are you more data oriented, working with spreadsheets and designing systems on paper?

[inner star]

i would love to be creative but i just dont see how i can use that

[ivory echo]

You don’t see how you can use creativity in game dev?

Be an artist, build levels and stuff

[spice dagger]

Id suggets try building a small game on your own to start.

You will quickly find out what parts of that process you enjoy and dislike.

Consider pursuing the aspects of it that you like as potential career pathways.

[gritty bronze]

or maybe join a coupleof gamejams

GMTK one is pretty soon i think

[white steppe]

Most of tech interviews are garbage. They just found some templates of programming language questions and toss them to you. I believe 99% of them won't be used in game dev. Just feel the interviewer are not really professional enough. To be honest, for the experienced developer, the best way you ask would be any problems you solved in the past projects makes you feel achievement or how you solved these kind of issue. I don't like google very much but STAR method is better than most of saying tech interview.😅

White board one is the most trash since why not getting information online? we are not living post apocalypses.

[chilly sundial]

My interview for a place actually emailed me a pdf of the star method to help with the interview process.
That was a very nice touch.

[white steppe]

Yeah, I think the skillful person means how to solve the problems in the real work condition not solving the drills in the book😛

[woeful iron]

ok but what if you work at microsoft and they suddenly force you to use bing

[white steppe]

I don't think that would happen though😅 And chatgpt is not that bad either

[woeful iron]

it was a joke 😔

[white steppe]

Yeah, I got that. What I mean is just getting rid of whiteboard, it is not a test in university

Even in University, it is kinda of dumb IMO

[woeful iron]

Ive never done one, but yeah they are dumb

[plucky hatch]

Guys i have a genuine question, how did you managed to land your first job in the industry?

Everywhere literally everywhere i look they all want someone who has at least 3 years of experience or at least worked through the cycle of a game, if nobody gives a chance then how I'm i sopused to get those experiences that everyone require?

Is there any tips anyone could give me? I'm genuinely desperate at this point most of the places i apply don't even bother to message back to reject me, they just don't respond at all

[green oyster]

I worked in CGI after college - only tangentially related to game art, I guess it helped, built a portfolio during and then got a job at an outsourcing studio. I also did a few works for indie projects and it helped going through the motions

[ivory echo]

That’s the rub with most skilled jobs, you prly need to do an internship or a co-op if you don’t have a way to prove your skills, like a portfolio

[plucky hatch]

Well my internship will finish in 2 days hope it foes something for me

[wary idol]

I made a few marketplace plugins and got a bunch of job offers from teams using the plugins

I did have a hobby project too

Which might have helped but not sure about that one

[plucky hatch]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong I'm selling packs on marketplace, got internship experience and also have a fitting portfolio

Maybe i should keep on trying it just sometimes rejection after rejection kinda kills the enthusiasm

[green oyster]

But what role are you aiming for exactly?

Well you need to trim a lot of your portfolio and step up your material work...do realistic stuff as well, show you have an creative eye

[plucky hatch]

Wait how are you seeing my portfolio rn? 👀

You're right i noticed I haven't showed any of my realistic materials i have made in past tho once ky internship is over i should do some personal projects and show it off

My main thing is creating materials and environment design

[green oyster]

I have...certain skills 😂

[plucky hatch]

Could you use your skill and find me a studio that would hire me? XD

[green oyster]

Well maybe try some indie studios that do mobile games

That might work

For realistic stuff you gotta step it up

[plucky hatch]

I just don't know where to search for these kinds of studios the only places i know to look for studios are artstation, here and LinkedIn

[green oyster]

reddit gamedevclassifieds? Polycount forums?

https://www.gamedevmap.com/

Might be outdated

[plucky hatch]

Tbh idc if it's necessary working in game dev studio

I'm ok as long as i do what I'm good at

Could work in animation studio or idk advertisement agency or anything as long as i get to design environments or make materials

[ivory echo]

Make sure to check the #salary-jobs and #freelance-jobs in here if you haven’t already

[plucky hatch]

I do it on dauly basis XD

[blazing dock]

is there a way to sort #salary-jobs by position?

[round radish]

No

[woeful iron]

best you can do probably is ctrl f

[hoary totem]

Apparently, I am just an untalented loser who can't get a job in the gaming industry sucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjAYbKFfSWM

[woeful iron]

hmm the game actually looks pretty cool to me

once you get past the intro

reminds me a bit of ghostrunner

I can see the vibe is for a specific kind of person though

lol at the credits just being you over and over

[round radish]

I have no idea what's going on in that video.

[ivory echo]

Are you reading the comments section or something?

[steady pewter]

Epilepsy warning

[woeful iron]

wait how are you complaining if the video was only uploaded 43 min ago 🤔

[ivory echo]

Maybe he wanted to be insta-famous?

[woeful iron]

is this just strange self promotion?

[ivory echo]

Reverse psychology self-promo, new tactic

[woeful iron]

guys I suck at rapping, check out my new album to hear how bad it is

[chilly sundial]

bingo

Okay? I really don't get what this has to do with career chat though. Seems like an odd way of wanting promotion or feedback idk.

[woeful iron]

I thought they wanted to say that no one wants to hire them with this as portfolio

but then I noticed upload time

so idk

[chilly sundial]

What I think it is, is more of a thinly veiled "they wouldn't hire me so I made a successful game myself"

[round radish]

Almost.

[woeful iron]

ah now that you say it like that, this might be it too

[shrewd bison]

hello i'm kind of new to game dev terms and i have a friend who likes doing these things.
-descripts, traits, skills, backstory, skills etc..

we are curious on what it's called
and was hoping if it can be turned into a career or job.

[woeful iron]

like game designer?

it can be a carreer

quite competitive though

[white steppe]

narritive game designer?

[steel creek]

looks more like just descrption copy that a writer would do. Adding stats doesn't make it game design

[ivory echo]

Asking for a friend, eh? 🙂

[shrewd bison]

thanks guys for your responses!

[round radish]

Stats would be the game design part. The copy is not. It's just fluff.

A very important part to some, but still.

[shrewd bison]

i just saw him doing it earlier and got curious. there are stages and elements counter idk lol. explanation too long so i just asked for screenshots.

[ivory echo]

Tbh anyone can come up with feature descriptions. I would say even the stats don’t actually mean anything professionally speaking, unless you are able to at least use pre-built engine tools to implement them.

[chilly sundial]

this isnt the place for hiring

post to the job board

[round radish]

They posted in every channel. Sigh.

[past cradle]

heyo

whats a good estimate to when a game can be put into early access?

like is a vertical slice necessary to do that?

[chilly sundial]

is your game in a state to launch? youll need much more than a vertical slice

remember that your early access launch is still basically your full launch

[past cradle]

and is building maps in fornite creative a good way to gain audience for wishlists?

[chilly sundial]

not really

[past cradle]

oh boy

so say that im making maps in uefn to pay the bills

is there anyway to go about it to improve my own gamedev skills?

[chilly sundial]

you dont get a second chance to launch again when the game is finished. Assuming this is steam, you basically have a day after going available to make your impressions, to get to the front page. If it doesn't your game is basically dead. If it's dead on early access, full launch won't revive it. Steam doesn't give you a do over when you go into a full release.

[past cradle]

Damn that’s pretty rough

[past cradle]

What’s a good way to get into indie game dev and get funded then, if not early access?

[round radish]

Produce a vertical slice and take it to a publisher maybe? Do a dev diary and advertise your game before you release it?

Basically you need people to know about your game, want to buy it and to give you money.

As an unknown, that is very difficult.

[past cradle]

thats why im trying to gain an audience by building maps for ppl in fortnite creative

If ppl can come and see what ive done , wouldnt that make them more confident to buy my game?

also, im looking for ways to get money other than working at kroger, walmart, etc, as im a software engineer student, its hard to get a job in the industry ( of software engineering ) currently, so thats why im headed in this direction for now

[round radish]

Sure it might help you get some name recognition.

[modern relic]

I agree with this 100% but just to provide a counter point, the only exception would be a game like no man sky that had so much hype and media exposure that even a completely failed launch didn't kill the game and the devs ended up coming through on the game

[chilly sundial]

Although I would argue that the game didnt fail. Sure it launched in an abysmal state, but it still sold very well, and those initial impressions were gained.
Another good exception is Among Us, completely and utterly dead from launch until 2 years later whne the youtubers found it.

I am still really amazed that No Man's Sky pulled that one back.

At least, i think no mans sky sold well on launch. I dont have any numbers :P, just seem to remember the mass disappointment lol

[young oyster]

thats so sad that even a really good game if dont have the marketing its dead

[modern relic]

Well.. Not really. If you make the best game ever made in the whole wide world, how are people going to know about it if you don't market it? And just because you throw some ads at reddit, doesn't mean your exposure is going to be great (could be targeted at the wrong people, or low engagement)

[chilly sundial]

a lot of people don't realise that marketing is 90% of it. I

[young oyster]

yep, we can see it witch diablo and trailer cinematics

[chilly sundial]

And half assed marketing aint great either. I've seen too many good games that have half assed trailers, that are just long gameplay segments edited in windows movie maker.

marketing is where a lot of effort must go. Great marketing can sell a mid tier game. However bad marketing can make a great game look bad.
Put out trailers, build a community, get word of mouth spreading. Get in touch with smaller and larger content creators that are interested in your genre

[regal perch]

If I remember correctly no mans sky still sold around 10-20 million dollars at launch. The reviews were horrible, but it sold well.

My last company I built made a game and sold 3 million dollars worth of copies at the start of early access. The game was multiplayer and died off for various reasons. We launched the game full release but had a super minor bump at full release. Basically your EA is a soft launch, if you fail to really capture the audience, the best full release in the world still will only give you a percentage of your initial EA. Of course there are the occasional outliers to this, but you don't want to base your strat off of the extreme outliers.

[steady pewter]

• I also read some ppl still being disappointed as it is still too much procedural & souless experience.
  I would contribute this to unmet expectations as well devs who had no idea what they were going to do.
  Frequent situations around.

Sure, I have noted that. Could have been 300k say? I don't know. Points are still valid tho.

Yeah, kind of similar. The difference being they had already high throne position from the Witcher-mitcher game series.

[wary idol]

Tbf I loved Cyberpunk, I played it on launch and loved it, had basically no or minor issues

It's overall a really good game

[wary idol]

Yeah I played on PC

[woeful iron]

I played it on ps5, had no real technical issues, but found the aiming system to be shit on controller

[steady pewter]

Aiming and controller have hard time together in general.

[woeful iron]

I had no problems with it in the good ol' cod mw2 days though

[plucky hatch]

Does anyone have any tips for me, I’m wanting to create horror games and I’m using unity, I’m very very new to this and my inspiration is fears to fathom, I don’t know how to code and what to do, any ideas that could help ?

[woeful iron]

why are you asking about unity in an unreal server though

[chilly sundial]

Learn to code. You won't make a game without it.

[plucky hatch]

I couldn’t find any unity servers

[plucky hatch]

And ok

Is there any good vids on yt to watch about coding

[chilly sundial]

The top result for "unity discord server" is the big ass official one

[plucky hatch]

Oh ok, thanks lol

I didn’t even set it to memeber count that’s probably why

[chilly sundial]

Google it instead, discord search is iffy at best :P

[plucky hatch]

Ok thank you

[woeful iron]

damn cross post rule breaking

[mint skiff]

Mooooddds

[round radish]

Damn just everything about that guy.

[woeful iron]

already reported

after I just reported him in #lounge 😔

[steady pewter]

But they are still here?

Mooooooooooooods

[woeful iron]

mods be sleepin all day

[pastel estuary]

quin seems a bit slow

[steady pewter]

Is this what we get for paying our taxes?

[steady pewter]

#instructions

[pastel estuary]

@nimble quail please read the #rules and #instructions , thanks

[nimble quail]

My game is Aaa game and open world where a girl arissa lived in medival village and one day a group of raiders named black sand came and demand arrisa for magic crystal which her wizard dad give her but arrisa denied and I revenge black sand raiders turn her villager to zombie and know their only one way to make everything alright is to find real magic crystal between 1000s of game crystal and everytime zombie wave will encrease

[round radish]

Fantastic lore 👍

[woeful iron]

for some reason I don't think there is a game yet

nor do I think it will be AAA

[pastel estuary]

nor is this the channel for it.

[woeful iron]

true

[round radish]

So it's not his career defining moment?!

[misty shadow]

could be.. not long until his comment is a unreal-gpt-prompt 😛

[round radish]

Heh

[earnest pecan]

welp, after lots of rejections, a gimmer of hope that also turned to be a rejection, I'm back here, starting from ig scratch

[woeful iron]

did you ask why you got rejected?

[earnest pecan]

im guessing this is the right place to vent about this because it is career related

[earnest pecan]

yep, I did

and honestly I understand why

[woeful iron]

then improve on that I guess

[earnest pecan]

I basically sent out a pitch of my game to a couple people, they all rejected it and I was totally fine with it but just as I was about to give up, I got this mail saying that someone is interested in the game

[woeful iron]

oh, you're pitching a game

[earnest pecan]

i was very happy and I attended a meeting with them, sent them additional documentation and all that

[woeful iron]

I thought you were looking for a job

[earnest pecan]

-oops, forgot to mention that

i'm sorry

anyway, all that happened and I needed to vent it out to someone

so I did just that

thanks for listening!

[ivory echo]

Sorry to hear that, man. Being rejected sucks. I got let go today and I’m nowhere near any good to get a job in game dev yet, so now I’m stuck applying to jobs similar to the one I had, which I really despise tbh. I’ve been trying to get out of there on my own terms for over a year, and just got ghosted by most employers. And now I lost my safety net, so this should be interesting

[earnest pecan]

Oh wow, that's awful. Will you be okay for a bit? I'm currently trying to cope with the rejection because it is a game that I really, really want to play. I'm very confident about it too.

Worst part is, every single one of the people I pitched to actually liked it. Their primary reason for rejecting me is my lack of experience and I suppose I understand that. (But in my defense, I did come up with that idea, yk?)

Today has been so bad, ugh.

[ivory echo]

yeah, I got packaged out, so I have a bit to figure it out. Yeah, I get you, everyone wants years of experience, very hard to prove yourself when you aren't given a shot, but keep trying, I'm sure you'll get something going

[earnest pecan]

I guess having that time is better than nothing. About the experience part, I can see why someone would need that but imo it's just not fair. Eitherways, nothing I can do but suck it up and continue working.

I guess it applies for you too

[ivory echo]

yep, I'm with you there hehe

[earnest pecan]

life, amirite?

[gaunt crescent]

I feel you on this. Even have a strong proof of concept but because my experience is mostly freelancing when it comes to game dev or not in the industry when it comes to past programming experience, people are hesitant.

I don't think releasing some minigame that won't sell much unless it trends is the answer, but I also don't think going to a junior position has a lot to offer me besides a pay cut without pouring years into it.
Honestly, feels like I got into game dev too late.

[round radish]

You can try working in game dev adjacent fields and work your way in?

There's plenty to do in UE that isn't game dev. It's used in all kinds of industries.

[spice dagger]

This is just simply how reality works. Changing industries forces you to start at the bottom again, that's part of what you sign up for.

You get paid for the skills and experience you bring to the table.

If you have no skills or experience, you will be paid low.

[gaunt crescent]

Yeah, some of my past experience is adjacent, C++ stuff.

[round radish]

I mean directly working with UE.

c++ is fine and all, but you need to learn the ue c++ framework and libs.

[spice dagger]

If you already have C++ experience you will have an easier time of it.

I think your best chance is to take at least a few months to learn how you can apply your skills to UE

[gaunt crescent]

Yeah, I don't have a long detailed list of experiences due to naivety when getting used to freelancing for people, but I don't see how you can play the sample I've made and see any problems with skill.

[gaunt crescent]

Ah, okay. I mean I have been, I've been freelancing for a while now, but sort of wrote myself into a corner with NDA's

[spice dagger]

If C++ is your skillset, Im expecting you would want a programming position.

However, there are many different disciplines within that

[gaunt crescent]

ah, I thought I specified, I meant applying with publishers and investors, my bad

as a game, not for a job

[round radish]

Honestly you could play a sample game and it could be fabulous, but under the hood it's a trainwreck.

[spice dagger]

Oh you're trying to sell your product?

[round radish]

That was not clear at all lol, toxic!

[spice dagger]

Should have started with that

[gaunt crescent]

Trying to get investment for equity, or get some funding for a publisher. Need pretty much just marketing & some smaller stuff in the grand scheme of things, a few sets of 3d character models, marketing & localisation.

[gaunt crescent]

Yeah, sorry, I thought I did because the person I was replying to was talking about it, but looking back, I didn't clarify, lol.

[spice dagger]

Why do you want a publisher instead of running it through Croud Funding?

If you dont already have somewhat of a following, a publisher isnt going to touch you

Doing a successful KS (especially if its asking for a modest amount that is achievable for your audience) that doesnt mean a publisher is out of the question, infact it would help your chances as it demonstrates demand.

[gaunt crescent]

This part answers your first, I got some advice that I either took wrong or was just wrong at the time and went for building strong gameplay instead of creating a following. I have a small following, but I don't think a couple dozen amounts to much. To be fair, I haven't started trying to gather a following in earnest, I've done some mediocre stuff, but I wanted the game to be really polished before I started marketing, again my fault.

[spice dagger]

Thats not a bad thing.

[gaunt crescent]

advice was essentially "build a good game, following will come"

[spice dagger]

If you have a vertical slice that is polished it will be easier for you to find a user base.

Unfortunately, you do have to do the leg work on your own here.

Publishers dont make bets, they make calculated risks.

A bet is giving money to someone with a product that hasnt got a following.

You want to do as much as you can to turn the calculated risk as low as possible.

That means, spending the time on your target audience yourself to create a following.

[gaunt crescent]

Yup, I'm working on that part now. I'm doing some last polishing over the next month and then I'm going full into building a following.
There's some big features that I'm working on that will make the game far more playable, so I think it will be a good point to try to get people interested.

[round radish]

People like dev blogs, content, etc. It's almost as important to create engaging media as it is to make the actual game.

[spice dagger]

Yes generating a hype machine takes work

And doesnt happen overnight.

[gaunt crescent]

Also, not trying to sound like I know everything you're telling me, a couple months ago I had no clue, I've just been investing tons of time into this side of game development, still clearly lacking in a lot of areas though, lol.

[spice dagger]

Consider hiring a Community Manager if you can afford one, just to keep a constant presense.

If you have a product vertical slice already, you have an easier time since you can already tease content and gameplay.

[gaunt crescent]

In talks with one now, actually, affording depends on some longer term stuff, but I think I can make it fit.

[spice dagger]

You want to hold off on giving the demo out as long as you can IMO.

Create anticipation

Instant gratification (giving out the demo early) kills hype

Unless the game blows people out of the water obviously.

[gaunt crescent]

Will do, I think this next month will be essential, it will make the project have a ton of playtime

[spice dagger]

The chances of you having an instant trending product is astronomically low.

So just curb your expectations is what Im saying.

Take the time to build a following, be patient.

[gaunt crescent]

Will do. As I've planned things out, I have at least a year until release. Development is really far along, so I've got a lot of time to focus on building a following and making it a good sell to publishers

After this next month, I'll have a lot of possible content and teaser to trickle out with too.

[spice dagger]

Good luck!

[round radish]

What he said

[gaunt crescent]

Thanks you two. 🙏

[mellow venture]

Career wise, would it be more advantageous to develop skills in the backend of programming through c++, or in designing specific gameplay elements and scripting through blueprints? I'm trying to decide what I should spend more time with as I try to build up my experience.

[chilly sundial]

C++ definitely offers more options than blueprints, as it applies to more than just unreal

[round radish]

I can't imagine a serious position for just BPs.

[mint skiff]

We have a few in virtual production

They're kind of Artist or technician roles though.

[round radish]

Artist I can understand. What do your technicians do?

[mint skiff]

Virtual production

compositing, camera rigs & syncing, that sort of thing

Maybe that's not worth the distinction from artist but that's just what the titles are 🤷‍♀️

Shoots often need "game"-like stuff made too, dynamic props or visualisations

[round radish]

That sounds fair enough.

That's doing things other than programming, though. BP is like an assist to somebody doing something else.

(as a job, anyway)

[mint skiff]

Yeah they do have disciplines other than just BPs (even if a lot of time is spent on BPs...)

[delicate laurel]

That's interesting. Recently, I developed a whole game just based on BPs - Advanced AI enemies, puzzles, health potions, magic, etc. no programming was involved

But yeah, I am in no way a programmer but would I be qualified as a Technical Artist since that's what they do? Art with a little bit of tech stuff

[shut token]

I developed a whole game just based on BPs
no programming was involved
These two statements contradict each other. You were programming.

[round radish]

Yes, that's cool, it can definitely be done, but studios aren't going to hire you to make a game with BPs.

[shut token]

Might get featured by Epic though!

[delicate laurel]

Sorry, I meant I didn't write any codes as many people do expect

[delicate laurel]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I am more of a lighting artist but it was so much fun to make an eight level game in an open world

since it involved a lot of optimization and it introduced me to the whole technical side of the game that I was unaware of

[shut token]

But you did? If you built the entire game in BP - that is still writing code as people expect.

Blueprint scripting is still code.

It is simply a different visual medium

You still employ the same programming concepts

[delicate laurel]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/04B0PE You can see the trailer if you wanted. But I dunno, I think most studios would expect the people to know some coding stuff, not just BP or am I wrong?

[shut token]

If you are going for an Engineering position, sure - it is expected to be able to do C++ most likely. But you are still a programmer if you coded an entire game in BP only. Because BP is coding.

[pastel estuary]

and plenty of indies willing to get a bp-only people on board. and while you hone those skills, you can practice cpp

[shut token]

Don't sell yourself short dude. You programmed.

[wary idol]

I thought I could apply as a chef with all that BP spaghetti experience || ||

[delicate laurel]

I am very excited about lighting scenes but yes, I am eager to learn a bit about c++ since I have a strong knowledge about BPs

[pastel estuary]

In LBP we called em spiderwebs

[delicate laurel]

That's what I am thinking, I am not sure that I can call myself as a programmer 😄

[shut token]

You absolutely can.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is just a gatekeeping A-hole.

And their opinion doesn't matter anyway

[wary idol]

It is programming for sure, even if it's visual there is still problem solving and general programming concepts involved

I was just making a joke 😅

[delicate laurel]

I see

😄

[pastel estuary]

< does shaders for a living (among things), havent hlsl-ed in my life.

[shut token]

👆 is an actual wizard

[pastel estuary]

and my beard is getting grey, so it must be true

you shall not pass!... on this value without saturating it

[shut token]

Shaders are black magic. Which makes it a shame that @round radish doesn't do them.

[delicate laurel]

I see that you are an VFX artist which I suppose it's close to lighting (to a somewhat extend)

[pastel estuary]

barely touch lighting myself XD

lightning though

[delicate laurel]

Yeah, VFX effects and lighting go together 😄

I enjoy doing lighting a lot if there are effects

[pastel estuary]

same, until the perf-peeps come to my desk with torches and go "yo, remove those lights"

[delicate laurel]

Because this is when I try to match the effect with lights as well as making sure to employ emotions in the scene

[shut token]

"What? You wanted the game to run at 60 FPS?"

[wary idol]

In reality you could probably pick it up somewhat easily since you are familiar with the concepts involved

[pastel estuary]

yea, but same with coding/bp's. I really, really struggle if I cant preview each step along the way

[delicate laurel]

Are you Danish, Luos?

[pastel estuary]

no

i live in a country that is supposed to be under the sea

[shut token]

Atlantis?

[pastel estuary]

close enough

Netherlands

[delicate laurel]

Oh, I thought UK for a moment 😄

[shut token]

(Yes, I know Atlantis is a city! But it is a joke darn it!)

[delicate laurel]

I've heard the Slipgate Ironworks studio before but I forgot where they were located

[pastel estuary]

even I keep forgetting besides "Denmark"

anyways, dont worry too much.
make a portfolio, write some cool blogs or whatever findings about bp's, make videos with neat stuff you made, network, solicitate for jobs, and you'll manage to find something. Just keep honing your skill and add new skills under the belt.

[delicate laurel]

Well, I was recommended to break down the game and show all the BPs, especially the AI part

since I managed to create an automated AI character where you just have to duplicate and adjust base settings such as health, mana, damage, change profile pic, etc.

But still, I am leaning more towards to lighting, if it doesn't work out, I will assemble a Tech Art portfolio then

[pastel estuary]

you got time, you got this.

which goes for all of the people here :)

[delicate laurel]

I am thinking of releasing this as a plug-in. But I do wonder how much shall I charge for this

This is the window that I've created and you can insert any model, any animation downloaded or made, any UI picture, etc.

[gusty vault]

So the team I'm working with for a short term college thing decided to stop using repositories, and instead throw the project occasionally on Google Drive.

They say it's because "there is only one programmer" when I'm the artist who needs to make shaders, implement models and animations, and so on.

Not to mention, the gameplay of the game is still in a very broken and primitive state

What does the """leader""" say when I say I should, as the game designer, work to implement mechanics and polish them?
"No, you make model. You make texture."

I'm working with people who know next to nothing about properly working

If I had known they were this incompetent I would have said to make a far less intense game like tic tac toe

[chilly sundial]

Why did you post this in career chat?

[shut siren]

because it’s relevant to my career?

[chilly sundial]

You should clarify its feedback from a portfolio standpoint then :)

[shut siren]

i said it’s feedback at the top

i’ll add portfolio to it i guess

[chilly sundial]

Feedback != Professional feedback. Feedback for a portfolio piece that aims to get you hired might differ from say feedback on a scene in your indie game/movie/whatever

[shut siren]

either way both feedbacks aim to improve the scene, which i’m trying to do

[round radish]

Get a different group.

[chilly sundial]

Fair enough :P

[gusty vault]

I cannot. I'm stuck with them for this year

I genuinely wanna drop the career simply because they are that awful to work with

[round radish]

Complain to your supervisor or whatever. Tell them what they say. If you're forced to work with them when they're that retarded, you should complain heavily. Or at least make it clear that whatever problems migth arise aren't your fault.

[gusty vault]

They complain about the game not having gameplay

I designed a set of basic systems and actions for both player and 2 basic enemies

We just haven't implemented them because our programmer doesn't want placeholders

And all I can say is... I CAN'T MAKE A MODEL AND ANIMATION FROM SCRATCH, TO MAKE THE THING WE NEED TO HAVE ON THE FIRST BATCH

[shut siren]

i had a similar experience with this, and i didn’t speak about it to them too much. be brutally honest with them, if they step up it’s good and if they don’t then… talk to your tutor about it. i wish i was more open with the lack of work from teammates, and it just resulted in a mediocre mark in the final assignment

[gusty vault]

So for example

We had several classes , you know?

I made a base character, with armour and rigged, textures and all

[shut siren]

and that’s not worth it, people like them won’t make it into the industry

[gusty vault]

Over the span of 3 months

Bear in mind, this is with all college shenanigans

[gusty vault]

No I mean, the college class

I want to be a game dev, just not a student with them

[gusty vault]

The only thing they complain of me that I must give to them, is my focus on details being too much at times

I'm the kind of guy who models ears only to cover them up

[shut siren]

i know, but if they don’t pull their weight they won’t make it into the industry

i did 2 years of college game dev and i’ve just finished my 1st of uni too

biggest waste of money and time i’ve went through in my opinion

i’ve learnt way more in the time of self teaching over the span of a couple of months than i did within uni

[round radish]

A degree shows you have promise, though.

At that age anyway.

[chilly sundial]

Not to mention not all universities are like this. To provide a contrary anecdote I have learned more at uni than i could ever have hoped to teach myself, and the university has been invaluable in securing me a job in the sector

[round radish]

Also doesn't mean to say that the second/third years are going to be just as "bad".

[shut siren]

yes im continuing it, but generally it depends on the uni and who’s teaching

im gaining a portfolio and the degree at the same time to get best from both worlds

[delicate laurel]

If the project gets corrupted or you delete something unintentionally

You're saying goodbye to it for good

Using Git is more for making sure that you can revert changes if necessary as well as it gives you a piece of mind that it is stored somewhere else

I am not going to mention the fact that it gives an access to more people at all times cause that's obvious

[round radish]

He wants to use a VCS. His project people don't.

[steel creek]

HE still can. Just take whatever daily pushes they do, and make a daily commit, so you can at least roll back to a day it worked, in a private repo, all for himself. 😄

[chilly sundial]

Oh yeah, no doubt. My second year has been much more informative, and i know the next year will be more so too.

[round radish]

Honestly I think just regualr cs degrees are better than game design ones if you want to be a games programmer. (Not a designer or whatever.)

[chilly sundial]

I took both worlds, Computer Science for Games.
Honestly really enjoying it. Mainly work with DirectX but there are also fundamental C++ theory and practice, optimization techniques, maths and data structures needed for rendering and modelling stuff. I really enjoy it, it seems to open lots of doors seeing as I have been offered roles in both traditional software dev, as well as game dev :D