career-chat

[plucky hatch]

Yes, it makes it much easier to deal with the highs and lows of the economy, When Covid came 60% of my office was let go as they were consultants, when things picked up again they just hire people back.

Trade of is more pay for less job security.

[modern relic]

Ye I guess it makes sense. Idk if I could live like that personally but I also don't work in the industry and I make peanuts so the thought of having a lull and potentially not getting paid is extremely stressful

[plucky hatch]

Hi guys, is it ok to create a page on my website portfolio called something like "see more projects" that would lead to a reel of my projects under NDA ? This page would be protected by a password and there'd be a text saying "here is my reel of projects currently under NDA, send me an email to get the password" ?

[plucky hatch]

No, that would break the NDA's you have signed 😂

even if it's behind a password ?

[chilly sundial]

yes...
you are disclosing the project are you not?

disclosing a project which contains company secrets, to potential rivals.

[plucky hatch]

it's a reel made of different shots of different projects at random

with no information about any project at all

just the CG sequence

[plucky hatch]

Yep

alright... what about sending the password protected vimeo link to companies which I interview with ?

Same thing, you cant share any information under NDA...with anyone, thats literally what they are for,

[chilly sundial]

unless you mean something like this, where its a showcase of something you worked on in a publicly known about game.
https://andystevenson.artstation.com/projects/o5EQW

[plucky hatch]

no yeah I get it. I just need to find a way around it cause it's severely limiting my job prospects. I interviewed with a company that said "yeah we understand, usually we have freelancers send us a password link so we can see what they're capable of"

[chilly sundial]

yeah we understand, usually we have freelancers send us a password link so we can see what they're capable of

👀

[plucky hatch]

You can get permission to share NDA work from your previous employers for job interviews that is quite common.

[chilly sundial]

which is 100% what the guy i posted did.

I don't think i'd ever be comfortable putting anything on without explicit permission :P

lawsuits hurt the ol wallet

[plucky hatch]

And getting blacklisted

[chilly sundial]

that too

speaking of NDA's i get to work with some PS5 devkits soon :D
kinds weird having to sign an NDA to continue a uni course, not going to lie

had to also sign an NDA for the placement interview i had.
Is that common?

[plucky hatch]

Yes

[chilly sundial]

Super cool portfolio by the way!
Did you have to pay for artstation pro for that?

[plucky hatch]

Yes thats the one

[modern relic]

Doesn't it depend what's included in the NDA though? Like if it's just some screenshots of gameplay or something and not actual source/assets and the NDA doesn't forbid using the project in a showcase capacity? I've never been under NDA afaik so I'm not entirely sure how they work. Is it just a blanket "show anyone and you will regret it" type deal?

[plucky hatch]

In almost all cases yes, thats why you just ask for permission.

[chilly sundial]

I'd also be put off on the risk of misinterpreting it too.

I always play things safe :P

[slim geyser]

@fiery aspen Please open your DM, we can't apply for your announce :p

[woeful iron]

quite random to post in #career-chat

[wanton finch]

would love to get opinions on this topic. i know you probably seen it a thousand times but i haven’t really asked or seen anyone asked so please bare with me, i am currently in school for Game Design and Development but I do want to switch to just computer science, I do want to get into the Industry and join a AAA studio, I know that my portfolio is a major play in what I can do but, is it really a difference if I switch to computer science to finish?

[granite solar]

As someone who broke into the industry just after graduating last year, my personal projects carried significantly more weight than my degrees. The only thing on my resume really related to my time in college was stating that I had went :p Why do you want to switch to computer science? How do you see that helping you reach your goals? And do you have an idea of what you want to be in the industry? As a programmer, I didn't have a "portfolio" (unless you count github lol). But as an artist it'd be mandatory.

[chilly sundial]

As someone whos just gone through a round of applications in the industry for a placement/internship, and gotten a job. The degree for the placement needed to be remotely related to the field. Like I got offers for IT and networking positions even though i'm studying Computer Science for Games. All the interviewers cared about, in the case of programming, was a portfolio showing off my work, and in the case of both, my knowledge surrounding the subject, and ability to respond to hypothetical situations.

[untold rampart]

On a related note, do you actually need a degree in order to find a job? I'm considering going for a computer science degree as I would like to be a gameplay programmer. However, I already have a portfolio of several games I have made in the past and I'm still working on new games too.

[plucky hatch]

No not at all, but then you need a very good portfolio.

[untold rampart]

ya, thats the only thing I would be concerned about is that it wouldn't be good enough and then I'm kinda out of luck. Its probably a lot safer to have a degree and then have a portfolio as an extra.

[plucky hatch]

Well it's all relevant, you can do a degree like many do and your portfolio will still be terrible 🤷‍♂️

[plucky hatch]

So there is no right or wrong way, are you good?

Or do you need a lot of help to get where you want to be, that is the question?

[chilly sundial]

Its probably a lot safer to have a degree and then have a portfolio as an extra.
In my experience and talking to recent alumni, its not that big of a deal. A degree won't really get you that many brownie points. the portfolio is always the main bit

[plucky hatch]

Depends on what you are doing, anything on the design/art side not so much of an issue.

Dev side, more so of an issue.

But again, experience and perfomance in portfolio always trumps education. A seasoned hiring manager is not looking at qualifications they are looking at if you can finish the task.

[chilly sundial]

Most of the companies i spoke to at a careers fair, mainly EA said it's entirely based on what you can do in your portfolio. Granted that would have been entirely uni students applying, so the results are a tad biased, but i was more trying to say a good portfolio is always needed. There were people there with rushed portfolios, that never really heard back from the companies they applied to.

[untold rampart]

what would you consider a rushed portfolio?

[chilly sundial]

personally some of the rushed ones i saw had dead links, and projects on it that didn't really show technical ability, they were just thrown on there.

but take my advice with a grain of salt, im a major newbie to all of this, and just sharing the experience of others ive talked to as well as my own

RobotsVDinsosaurs is a much more trustworthy source

[untold rampart]

understood, I still appreciate the advice.

[chilly sundial]

It's one of those where you don't need one, but I personally recommend it, if the uni experience is something you'd value, and you pick a good uni.
You do need to be careful, as there are a fair few that do the absolute bare minimum while harvesting all of your money. It also depends where you're from. I took the opportunity no brainer, as tuition fees in the UK for natives is comparatively low to say, the united states.

Personally for me there's lots of connections i've made and things i've learned that i probably wouldn't have been able to do by myself, as i do quite value the structure and guidance.
If it's not something you need, it might not be worth it for you.

[upper tree]

Just wondering... what do you think is the most needed skill at the industry right now ?

[wanton finch]

Thank you for all the answers 🫶🏽

[plucky hatch]

VFX Dev, least common and biggest day rate

[wanton finch]

i am currently going to stay in the game design and development area, i know for sure i want to just do surely game programming and you are right i don’t see me switching to computer science helping me at all in my goals now that i am taking another look

[plucky hatch]

It wont matter what you choose, only your portfolio, so just pick the one you can apply yourself too and have the most fun with

[wanton finch]

i do want to go to a better school though, not too sure if anyone has recommendations.. was looking at full sail university online but I’ve heard mixed things .

[plucky hatch]

Wont matter in the end

[wanton finch]

definitely, i think i would apply myself better and have more fun with the game dev focused degree instead of regular CS

so I’ll definitely start building my portfolio and trying the hardest I can.

[plucky hatch]

Nice, then just pick the most economical option not the 'best' school

[wanton finch]

should definitely take this into consideration.. i was definitely looking at full sail because of the help they give with the portfolio and networking options, but maybe i should slow down a bit .. and look at my options

[plucky hatch]

If you think you need to pay a school to help you with making a portfolio you should certainly slow down and take stock of you expectations.

So that sounds like a wise chouce

[wanton finch]

not just that, i definitely should’ve detailed it more

but it is a community college, around me that has game development and design but they do only use Game Maker I believe and they professor did tell me some of the information is outdated

[plucky hatch]

How many students are there per year who graduate at Full Sail, do you know?

[wanton finch]

from my research it says in 2022 that 2,900 out of 5,000 graduated

[plucky hatch]

Google tells me 6000, lets even be incredibly economical and say only 1000 want do do what you want. Do you have 1000 game dev jobs in your area? Is Full sail that good then can somehow network even 1/6th of you every year? How does that work it's impossible?

So they may have great networking abilities because they know people, but realistically how does that help you?

[wanton finch]

It doesn’t help me too much

[plucky hatch]

Indeed,

[wanton finch]

probably like a 3/10 chance of me exactly getting into something from it if I’m being real

[plucky hatch]

Probably less to be honest if it's 5-6k graduates per year

[wanton finch]

I’ll take a step back, also thank you for being real and just telling me straight up by the way I do need these kind of talks

because it really is important to me how I end up after school , especially in this industry

[plucky hatch]

Out of 100% of graduates how many % actually make it past 5 years to a career instead of dropping out too?

[wanton finch]

not too sure on that one

wish i could’ve had this talk with you months before i actually came to SNHU 😅

[chilly sundial]

SNHU?

[wanton finch]

Southern New Hampshire university

[plucky hatch]

How many thousands of game jobs are there annually in even the whole of the US if one school (albiet multi-dicipline) is putting out 5-6k pa

[chilly sundial]

ah

[plucky hatch]

I can guarantee you the majority of 'graduates' will never work in games

[wanton finch]

you’re are definitely right on that one

[plucky hatch]

Its just my opinion, never trust any internet people, make your own conclusions...but yes I am also right

[wanton finch]

I’m trying to come up with a solid plan, I should think more realistically when it comes to school, but I guess I am having a hard time just overall trying to come up with a plan

I’m only 24 years old, but I’m finally pushing on what I loved, just always doubted myself but I am definitely gonna stay in school while working on my portfolio

I guess I just need a solid school that i can stay at tbh

and work on my portfolio as much as I can

[plucky hatch]

I only went into what i loved when I was almost 30, so never too late, I also just hired an ex-chef in thier late 40's, never too late, follow your passion but remember PORTFOLIO IS EVERYTHING !

[wanton finch]

portfolio is everything, that’s what I always keep in mind! I have to!

thank you for the help, and also one last thing I would like your opinion on if you got the time

[chilly sundial]

ooh fancy

not seen them before

[wanton finch]

when it comes to portfolio building, what should be the strongest showcases on it ?

[plucky hatch]

Having a good portfolio not sure what to tell you? You can go an Artstation and see 2000+ portfolios of people better than you doing what you want to do? Start at the top and copy them,

Who are your 10 favourite people who you look up too? what do thier websites look like?

That is what your website needs to look like

[wanton finch]

you’ve been a huge help

🙏🏽

[plucky hatch]

Dont overthink it, and dont rush to give an institution your money before they can show you what they can actually give you over in tangible terms. 5-6k students is great, but what does that mean on your last day, all it means is 5-6k competitors for the 50 jobs they maybe put a good word in for,

But good luck either way it's interesting times 👌

[dim hornet]

be careful with full sail they spend a lot of money to look good on the outside and they do a lot to lure you into their programs + their very expensive. you'll have to do your own research but some of their degrees have been pulled in the past for not being true degrees. imo better off looking into a comp sci degree (assuming your in florida) schools like UF or UCF are great for this. then if you dont end up enjoying game dev in the long run or something happens you can use a really respectable degree for other things outside of game dev. plus comp sci gives you plenty of experience in languages like C++

• regardless of the degree you get if you want to do game dev your gonna have to teach yourself just as much outside of college. college is just to show your employers your capable of learning and that you want to learn. colleges imo dont really teach anything in-depth or up to date.

i was in high school just a few years ago and i remember being in your boots looking at schools wanting to do comp sci or game dev. full sail actually sent recruiters to my high school comp sci classes (thats how i first heard about them) and after doing research on them they are somewhat scummy imo. even on places like reddit you will struggle to find unbiased reviews because they quite literally pay recruiters to write good reviews about their school pretending to be a student.

[modern relic]

you are welcome mate

[wanton finch]

yes I’ve had dug deeper into full sail after talking with robotsVdinosaurs (epic name btw ) and took what was said into consideration and just went first into Reddit to see what people had to say and they’re experienced and boy oh boy … so many cons and just overall experiences , wasn’t good. I’ve also learned that they’re a for-profit school or something like that and the recruiter definitely didn’t tell me that.. and i was mad. so Im happy I didn’t jump right in the may classes ..

@dim hornet

but I’m doing more research now on how competitive the industry is, what to expect, what they expect, and I’ve been doing research on schooling and the benefits of having a CS degree is just as you said I have other options to fall back on if I end up not liking it

So right now definitely going down that route, gonna build my portfolio, I have side courses for free on udemy also I’m gonna take advantage of and gonna push on it, gonna start small joining indie studios and projects and then try to break into the industry once I have a solid portfolio

Definitely was worth talking to all of you, gave me a real different look on all of this and I definitely appreciate it 🙏🏽

[upper tree]

vfx wha.. ? developer ?

what is that

[pallid blade]

I'm applying to a game design program and I was thinking to post a tweet of a trailer showcasing my project (it's one minute) as I want to get more comfortable sharing my work.

Should I tag the school in my tweet? It's a smaller school so I'm worried they will see it and wondering if it could reflect poorly on me or could it be a positive thing?

Maybe worth mentioning that we are not required to make a game (but it's a plus) nor are we required to make a trailer.

[remote bolt]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but here I go anyway. I am currently a student looking for an internship as a Gameplay Programmer. But after sending out over a dozen applications over the past 2 months I have yet to even receive an answer so I'm wondering if I have completely messed something up in my portfolio or my CV or if this is just normal? (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to send a link:https://www.patrickvandenbosch.com/) Thanks in advance for any help you could give me!

[pastel estuary]

website is very unclear and takes a while to find stuff that actually shows what you did, and even then it feels vague.
you need to show in a short glance what you did in relation to game design, programming, gameplay programming, ai programming.
If anything it feels more like you are looking for a project manager internship vs a gameplay programmer one. (cv kinda reflects this)
the CV doesnt mention what you can do with unreal or unity. just "unreal" doesnt state if you understand materials, bp's, cpp, editor scripting, yada.

[woeful iron]

also smide side note, the scaling on the website is broken af if you don't have a 16:9 ish window open, also on phone, there's a sticky top banner making some text unreadable

[pastel estuary]

^ that as well, links at top get hidden when I resize window on 4k screen

and --generally--
a cv goes
page 1: personal info, name, location, contact info, photo, gender, yada.
page 2: work experience/jobs (including side jobs)
and wherever: certificates, personal qualities, and a description of what you do in your free time.
dont just sum em up, talk about em.
"I recently picked up X because I am an Y-ing person who likes to Z my life"

[woeful iron]

lol, just noticed your email is [e-mail]

very professional

[remote bolt]

Thanks for the feedback, I got a lot to do then 👍

[plucky hatch]

Yes, a developer working in the VFX field.

[chilly sundial]

I didn't know VFX was in that high demand. What do they deal with? Shaders and particle systems and the like?

[pastel estuary]

generally yes, we tend to touch a lot of aspects of gamedev, and the more technical one is, the more we interact with other parts of the engine.

[plucky hatch]

Yes at least in my experience the most in demand. If a top artist is getting €1000 per day the VFX dev is getting that an hour 😂

[pastel estuary]

overstatement --in most cases at least-- but yea, we are paid rather well

[chilly sundial]

Hmmm. I might have to look into VFX :P

Never really done much with it honestly

[hard zephyr]

The official language of Nigeria is actually English

[chilly sundial]

Now that's something I didn't know

[round radish]

That's how all the princes can talk to you about rescuing their fortune.

[wanton jungle]

top artist getting 1000 a day? where is that? EA? 💀

[pastel estuary]

i know of one person, but he's top tier AAA vfx lead

[wanton jungle]

I don't understand why this industry doesn't pay enough... I mean look at all these programmers getting what they want putting same time and efforts.

[mint skiff]

Saturated market

[stoic sundial]

Honestly goals. I kinda do a bit of everything, but VFX is just so much fun, especially when I can get fancy with shaders. I could see myself specializing in it.

[steady pewter]

This is a slippery slope, comparing.

[plucky hatch]

US is more, but yes Europe. Those are freelance numbers though not salaried.

[plucky hatch]

I posted my own historical freelance numbers further up @wanton jungle (im a designer though not programmer), not adjusted for inflation:
2010: €130 per day (0 year experience)
2013: €220 per day (3 year experience)
2014: €270 per day (4 year experience)
2016: €400 per day (6 year experience)
2017: €600+ per day (7 years experience) (Senior)
2019: €900+ per day (9 years experience)

Rule of thumb for freelance is about 3x salaried rate, it seems like a lot but you get nowhere near that number in your pocket.

[spiral badge]

Hey, looking at quixel, im attempting to create some photorealism.. i know my way around the engine and what not but cant seem to wrap my head around that new bodycam game.. Unrecord? Crazy.. I cannot even start to put together how that lighting is achieved or even performant.. Im looking at quixels youtube and collections and also realised how walls, ceilings or any structural assets are included, does anyone know of their workflow for this? Assigning materials to cubes from in engine just doesnt look good at all...

[pastel estuary]

@spiral badge not really the channel for it.
Unrecord dev does use a lot of marketplace packs and such. generally the more photogrammetry looking ones. which is a word you can look up to see how its done.

[spiral badge]

Yeah i saw, i recognise many of the assets.. it seems photogrammetry is probably the way to go with anything really..

[pastel estuary]

that, and people with really good modeling skills

[spiral badge]

Just crazy, im happy with my work level right now, but i really want to take it to the next level, for my careers sake really, freelancing can get a little exhausting and sometimes unreliable when a small circle of clients are available

[manic abyss]

out of curisouty has anyone ever gotten a "speed test" during the interview period, first time running into it

[manic abyss]

this, you always gotta take into account things companies ususally hover, holidays, illness, etc.

[plucky hatch]

Indeed; Salary, Sick Pay, Pension, Tax, Healthcare ,Holiday Pay ,Transport ,Office equipment and furniture ,Software Licenses , Hardware (+Maintenance) ,General admin, insurance. All of these things more or less need to be factored into your hourly rate.

[frank pulsar]

Looking for a tech art job, any idea for a useful editor asset tool for my portfolio?

[brave forge]

Wut. What does this involve? I've never heard of it tbh, and never seen it.

[manic abyss]

yeah thats what i was wondering

[chilly sundial]

I just keep thinking of internet speed test :P

[manic abyss]

to be fair though its a start up and their interview process was very nice, this is the first "technical" test after which theres a collar project with unreal

even tho i dont know what it is, its far nicer than some whiteboard problem...hopefully

i think its eitehr like a simple make like a binary tree in an hour or something, or like typing speed test

[chilly sundial]

The only thing I could possibly think of that makes sense would be answering hypotheticals quickly, or do X task as quickly as possible

[brave forge]

Ahh right so it might just be their fancy name for technical screening. First thought was like you, typing test, or getting you to solve problems as quick as possible

[manic abyss]

i know its in python so i assume it involves coding

it is a remote job so i guess its kind of similar to a white board problem where they want to see you do problem solving

and that it doesnt take you an hour to go thru the programming process

[worthy dust]

Any idea why I can't see the Job Board info? It literally just shows that there is a post, but not any actual content (or link to content).

[wanton finch]

hey everyone, just wanted to stop bye and say thank you again to those who helped me ended up making a good decision that saves me money, time, and i could not be more happier

currently working towards my goals and gonna start on my portfolio you guys were a huge help

[round radish]

Confirmed, linkedin is a dating site.

[fading hatch]

I bet they don't lack scammers, too 😅 If your plattform's most basic options are behind a paywall, it's a bad platform.

If the purpose of LinkedIn is to connect business people that's just a predatory mechanic x)

You are the product :x

[round radish]

I assume you can still directly contact people if you want, but I've never used it.

Well, I signed up once, got more spam than a meat canning factory and left.

[sturdy garden]

Who understands how can add animation pack to my gameplay character?

[woeful iron]

that's definitely not a question for #career-chat chat my man

[modern relic]

What if I have career goals of adding animation packs?

[woeful iron]

Why are we getting your daily linkedin updates

[woeful iron]

Probably need to find some new aspirations then

[shut token]

Because it's just a volunteer discord and not an actual official job board

[misty shadow]

in my country jobs application forms require you to state your expected remuneration in the application. basically forces you to enter negotiations anchored to a number and on the back-foot as an employee.
both problems are controlling, though at least with no-salary-postings you can theoretically negotiate on application.

[woeful iron]

the requirement to post a range is a joke anyway

you see job postings with a range of like 40k- 170k depending on experience

like what's the point then

[brave forge]

I'll pay between $1 and $1000 an hour. Perfect

[misty shadow]

haha

[woeful iron]

a way better requirement would be to make the salaries of everyone in the company public. No one wants that, but then at least you'll know if you're being paid fairly

I wouldn't mind

I think they do this in the nordic countries?

at least finland

[misty shadow]

i think Finland does that with it's political campaigns and it results in more centralized election results

lol i was just

haha

[woeful iron]

I wish it would be that open

I know I'm underpaid compared to colleagues lol, but I wonder how it's like compared to other companies

[misty shadow]

yeah if transparency only increased the salaries of the underpaid-deserving, i'd be all for it, though it has a bunch of side effects in a company

[woeful iron]

like what

jealousy sure

but then the company should just pay fairly in the first place

[misty shadow]

kind of a broad idea to address, but in boring reality, people get resentful, petty and shocked that they were not personally validated in line with how they think their boss/corporation/work should be valued

and layer on top the fact that everyone knows it... ah it can go well for sure, but not always!

like you said they should pair fairly, and the employee doesn't always believe what is fair, is fair, ect, ect

[shut token]

That's the standard talking point on why companies try and make it against policy to talk about pay.

(At least in the US)

[misty shadow]

well i just say it cause i've been that guy, and consider it not a great outcome

[shut token]

I'd rather everything be transparent

[woeful iron]

if you think you're not paid fairly find a new job

you can see the expected salary before you apply

[shut token]

If you're the type to be jealous of someone else, that's a personal problem

[misty shadow]

a new guy got highered at +15k more than me (which was big at that rangee) and i considered my relationship with the guy-who-set-the-wages to be in a good place, and then felt very bitterly that it was not

yeah i'll put my hand up and say yeah, i'm the type of guy that examples the negative outcome

[woeful iron]

well if he was of similar level and experience the dude just scammed you

[misty shadow]

yeah

[woeful iron]

so you can rightfully be bitter at him

but if everything was transparent, you would see before you applied that you could earn 15k more

[misty shadow]

true, true

[woeful iron]

I'm pretty sure I could get higher salary if I changed jobs, but the fringe benefits and the comfort of my current job are just wild tbh

[misty shadow]

niice

[woeful iron]

not that I wouldn't take a new job if it was a better offer though lol

[shut token]

This is my current dilemma 😅. But right now, the security of my job is what I need most.

[steady pewter]

Also don'

t crosspost

[chilly sundial]

Yeah that's something for the job board

[inner star]

what are some of the best way to make money using unreal engine

[chilly sundial]

Get a job in the industry

[inner star]

no shit haha

i meant like any tips or any general ideas

no disrespect

[chilly sundial]

Otherwise you probably aren't gonna have much luck.

If you aren't aiming for an industry job, and don't have much experience to freelance, you probably won't earn much money

Aside from striking it extremely lucky with an indie title or marketplace stuff

[inner star]

im excited for upcoming metaverse stuff i get to build in but im looking to build more experience

where could i start finding a industry job?

[woeful iron]

I heard google is great for finding things

[brave forge]

It still can't find my watch though.......

[woeful iron]

probably made a typo in the serial number when googling

[teal spoke]

It really looks like you are making this channel your diary

[modest pecan]

what does a graphics programmer do? I know the basic idea but I want something more specific like what are some of the daily tasks they have to work on?

how do people come to know if they wanna do graphics/engine/tools, etc ...?

[royal lintel]

by trying to build things in those areas and seeing if they're interested in the types of problems they pose

a graphics engineer's day isn't going to be any different than any other engineer's, they're just going to be working on tasks specific to rendering as opposed to something else.

[modest pecan]

yeah, I wanna know some examples

what's a task they would have to work on for example?

[steady pewter]

"John from Art said that Windows removes the GPU after running a scene for few seconds, fix it."

[royal lintel]

implementing a render pass for custom post processing effects

[mint skiff]

Lumen would have been designed and implemented by graphics engineers (and probably a couple of researchers)

[royal lintel]

literally anything in the rendering stack lol

[steady pewter]

GTX980 crashes when a mesh is shown, FIX IT

[royal lintel]

closed as wontfix, under min spec
shit the 980 is almost 10 years old

[steady pewter]

Reopened by Sales.

We have 2% money there.

[modest pecan]

how common for programmers to transition to other fields within their careers?

[royal lintel]

to other fields like non-programming fields? or to other fields within programming?

[modest pecan]

still within video games

like from engine to graphics/gameplay

[royal lintel]

pretty often? just gotta have an interest and enough knowledge to get started... the more senior you become the less of a possibility it becomes but it's not that hard to try to specialize in something else when you're more early in your career.

[modest pecan]

idk I was under the impression that I like gameplay side

but I keep watching YT vids on graphics and it just keep seeming more interesting

[steady pewter]

lol

[royal lintel]

ok... and? It's not like being interested in gameplay means you can't do anything graphics related. Learning how rendering works isn't going to be a waste of your time.

And you'll find out if you like it or not.

[modest pecan]

nothing fancy, just drawing stuff on the screen and going back to doom/id software early days stuff

[royal lintel]

If you're as early into things as it sounds like you are then you really shouldn't worry about it. Do whatever interests you.

[steady pewter]

You've gotta dirty your hands to get an opinion.

Watching YT is easy.

[modest pecan]

yeah, I know

how did u guys come to find what you like working on? was it straight away you knew what you wanted or did it take you a couple of trying different things

if u dont mind me asking. I know its different for every person but just wanna get a general idea

[ornate sedge]

hey guys! can someone pls review my resume?

my portfolio is still in progress, I need to work on that but I just want to get checked what companies rejects or accepts

honest reviews will be appreciated!

[steady pewter]

put a freaking url to your artstation

[ornate sedge]

https://www.artstation.com/xeno_sid

[steady pewter]

... in your resume

[ornate sedge]

my artstation is not updated tho

it's there only! (the contact info. section)

I even added a barcode below

[steady pewter]

Then remove the one? 🤔 Why having a big flashy QR code?
I am a recruiter, I want to see your portfolio first, then read further if interested.

[ornate sedge]

alright even I think the barcode looks kinda odd

then what else ?

[steady pewter]

portfolio pics or it didn't happen

Or animations or models or whatever you are advertising about.

[ornate sedge]

didn't get you

[steady pewter]

You have to show your best work.

[steady pewter]

Is bad.

[ornate sedge]

yea I will update it..I've been uploading mostly on deviantart n instagram lately

[floral island]

Does anyone have an example of a resume for someone who has no experience but who has some authorial work in unreal engine?

[tender knot]

I'm an unreal beginner right now, do I need to learn blender? Should I learn both together?

[chilly sundial]

Not really career chat but it depends what you need to do.

If you need models can you buy asset packs, do the free models suit your needs, do you have a modeller? If it's yes to those then you probably don't. But if you're free all the way on that, then yes you will have to learn blender

[floral island]

what is the best free portfolio website?

[chilly sundial]

for an art portfolio it will always be artstation

[serene crystal]

You can find a lot of template portfolio sites, I personally found a nice css setup and then hosted on github pages

for guidelines on what to put in there, find other peoples portfolios that have a similar experience level to you

and remember to make your portoflio page straight to the point

[floral island]

I created one in artstation

Seems very good for now

[serene crystal]

I'm more on the programming side so I have nothing to say about artstation portfolios

[floral island]

I have only two serious works so is kind of empty

[serene crystal]

I assumed you meant more general stuff

[floral island]

I do 3d art and animation

I wish I could use adobe portfolio but I don’t pay the adobe lol

[mint skiff]

100% use artstation

2 pieces is not empty, that's almost perfect

(Assuming they're good)

[floral island]

Ok makes sense

[serene crystal]

you can add used tools to each piece on artstation, no? maybe that will help show your skills

in specific tools

not sure how art portfolios usually present that

[mint skiff]

Artstation does let you set some "made with" tags

But really I think most people don't care. Any more detail than the tags is probably inappropriate for a portfolio

[floral island]

Yes it is possible

[oblique ice]

some also just have 1 artworks only 🙂

[inner star]

How does 1 go about starting there career in unreal

Any info helps thanks guys

[chilly sundial]

Having an impressive portfolio and applying to jobs

And being more than a beginner in general I'd imagine

[sharp vault]

Hello everyone guys! Can I share job poster here?

[spice dagger]

@sharp vault If you want to make a job listing read the #instructions channel.

Take the time to also read #more-resources and the #rules channels as well.

[deep mural]

I was thinking about ditching game dev for software development or web development but I have no clue how the job industry is and also if it actually pays more like I'm thinking

[blissful sun]

how many years have you been in the industry? 🤔
or you havent started at all yet?

[deep mural]

Not really I've just been working for someone else in another game engine

[blissful sun]

In software development, in my opinion, you have to like what you do

it's a very rapidly evolving world and you will need to invert your free time to keep up to date 😬

[deep mural]

I like game development

[blissful sun]

and if you don;'t enjoy the topics, you won't be happy with the learning

then go for it 🤷‍♀️

I dread the idea of having to develop a server with integrations

[deep mural]

But is it actually worth it like I'm thinking

[rotund nymph]

you also learn on the job if you are lucky

[rotund nymph]

yeah it is

I worked as webdev (frontend and fullstack) before being able to land a gamedev job, and I'm very happy

[blissful sun]

the thing is, you won't survive if it is not what you enjoy.
even if making backends or websites in react were more profitable, if you hate it you will never get good at it and thus you will never make more money 😅

[rotund nymph]

But I landed in a good company, with a nice team and a project that is stable

[blissful sun]

sometimes, when the rope gets short you take jobs that are not the thing you like 😬
just keep in mind that you might not be able to hold it forever if it is something you don't like

I had a super stable job as an autocad autolisp programmer 😬

I ditched it at the first hint of a job in videogames 😅

[deep mural]

What about labor wise? Is there for competition to find a job in software development more than gamedev? More of the same?

[mint skiff]

Conditions are generally considered better

[deep mural]

Why?

[mint skiff]

Everyone wants to be a game dev and employers know it

Fewer people want to develop databases and those that do aren't saying "I am so passionate about databases that I will do loads of unpaid overtime so that we can release this new database on time"

[rotund nymph]

ye totally true

I have to say though that it is not necessarly the case everywhere - you can find nice gamedev jobs with equal conditions to non-game dev. But it is harder

[mint skiff]

Yeah and obviously there's non-game dev software jobs that suuuuck

[rotund nymph]

Yeah that too

As always be careful with new jobs, study the company and get out if you see red flags

also gamedev is not only AAA - I work for a mobile game where things are way more standard and there's no crunch that I've seen

[mint skiff]

I think game dev (and related fields like film/TV) tends to develop a kind of less professional atmosphere too

Sometimes this is great but sometimes this is not so great - within my own workplace it's both at once!

[rotund nymph]

yeah specially if it becomes a mess with bad management etc

I like having fun in my job and having a bit of relaxed attitude helps, but it can become a disaster

[shut token]

Oh lordy - a mobile company? Are you betraying us by using Unity?

Or a mobile company that is using...Unreal shudders

[rotund nymph]

no we have a propietary c++ engine

although it runs on many platforms so it is not mobile only

[rotund nymph]

that would be an experience

[deep mural]

What's wrong with unity /s

[deep mural]

Does the average worker really love their job though

[rotund nymph]

no idea but most would like to love it, or enjoy it at least

we're contractually forced to shit Unity once a month per the EULA license

[deep mural]

Also, yeah I'd prefer to not make databases

Is this what I'd be actually doing in software dev?

[shut token]

The field is far too vast to guarantee it

But most jobs are just glorified CRUD positions

[rotund nymph]

It is too broad to know, it depends in the company, field, position and culture

also once you get more experience/seniority (hate that word) team and project management are going to be things that you work on more and more

[rotund nymph]

specially in webdev making frontend and backend communication happen is going to be a big part of it

[deep mural]

What does that mean? Making something but then whoever's in charge wants something else so now you delete that code and redo it?

[shut token]

Google it.

In either position, you're going to be googling terms you don't know

[rotund nymph]

no that's bad management

[deep mural]

Lmao I did

[rotund nymph]

and also pretty common

[deep mural]

I modeled that question off that definition

[shut token]

Now you actually read the article instead of a short snippet

[deep mural]

Maybe I don't want to work if my coworkers are gonna be extremely unhelpful like this lol

[shut token]

Maybe your coworkers don't want someone who can't do basic googling

[rotund nymph]

actually reading/listening and understading carefully is one of the most important skills you'll need in software dev

incredibly important

[deep mural]

And as a gamedev

[rotund nymph]

gamedev IS software dev

the only difference might be the actual technical work done

communication is essential

[deep mural]

Okay, appreciate the help

[rotund nymph]

if you missunderstand a task and implement something that is not what it was planned, it can have lots of consequences besides the time lost

such as blocking coworkers, delaying test sessions and releases, etc

causing unintended bugs

the list can be long

[plucky hatch]

Why not work in non-games then. Basically still the same type of work, still using Unreal but with much better pay and conditions.

[deep mural]

Any examples?

[brave forge]

Marketing like automotive

[plucky hatch]

Its on Epic's own homepage

I work in most of those fields, it's very fun

[deep mural]

More of meant examples from experience, but thanks

[plucky hatch]

Well if you go onto the homepage you can click on each of those to see examples.

[brave forge]

Yeah it’s honestly the same day to day problems and tasks

[plucky hatch]

In many cases can be many more problems than games as many of the areas are not well documented (if at all) since everything is so new. In automotive especially when pushing the limits of the engine and what it can be used for. I have managed to tempt quite a few senior devs over now for the chance at some puzzle solving, especially around HMI.

But it's worth looking into anyway, since it's such a vast area usually something for everyone (development, simulation, TV, automotive, marketing, fashion etc).

[scarlet kernel]

Hello?

[spice dagger]

Hello. Do you have a #career-chat question?

[wide sun]

can anyone give me few tasks examples in recruitment process for a Junior Gameplay Programmer position UE5? Or what tasks did u have while you were starting your ue5 commercial dev journey

[woeful iron]

For an internship I once got an unfinished buggy version of pacman (not in unreal) that I had to fix and finish.
For another internship I just had the assignment to make a clone of the classic game Secret of Evermore (just the core mechanicas like walking around, opening chest, completing levels).
For my first job I just had to make a basic homing missile mechanic, but this one was during live interview.

that's my experience at least

[wide sun]

Thanks broski 🫡

[pastel estuary]

hnnng secret of evermore.

[woeful iron]

I hadn't actually heard of it before this task lol

I wasn't born yet when it released

[pastel estuary]

one of my fav snes games

[shut token]

I preferred Secret of Mana personally

[pastel estuary]

also a good one

[tawny lichen]

i’m a complete noob to 3d and want to create animated creatures. i’ve got sculpting figured out for the most part but i’m a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out a curriculum for self-study, a lot of tutorials don’t explain things adequately so i can understand what i’m doing. other tutorials are a bit over my head for an absolute beginner. open to recommendations for how to make sure i get a decent education in unreal so i’m not missing anything important. open to cheap paid courses but prefer free resources.

[steady quiver]

Hey all unreal fans, does anyone know if Unreal as a similar tool to Profile Audio like FMOD?

https://www.fmod.com/docs/2.01/studio/profiling.html

[last comet]

Hi there! I've been trying to get a job as a game programmer (junior, entry level, etc.) and I really haven't had any luck getting responses on job applications. I don't have any experience in paid roles, but I've been programming in C++ for probably... 7 years at this point, and I finished most of a BS in CompSci, but wasn't able to finish for personal health/Covid reasons.
I know the job market for software in general is really not great right now, but would there be anyone here who would be willing to help me figure out how I could approach things differently or point me in the direction of career resources?
I've mostly been looking on developers websites for job postings, and occasionally the #salary-jobs or #freelance-jobs channels, but I have to admit, the lack of response has been incredibly frustrating

[neat crag]

I would perhaps go through this checklist for a person with no experience

• Do you have a demo of your work, like a little game
• Do you have it easily accessible to play?
• Do you have project up on github so interested parties can download the zip and look through your setup
• Is it made with Unreal Engine? If so, make sure to only target companies known to use Unreal.
• Is it compact and fast to play / load up on editor?
• Extra Points : is it available for most common engine versions ( 4.27.3 + 5.0 / 5.1 ) to increase odds of a possible interviewee already having the engine version ready to roll?

At least first 2 really need to be checked for me to be interested in the candidate unless there are other circumstances involved

[last comet]

Thank you for the response!
I believe at least one or two projects on my portfolio should meet those requirements. It's available at https://redesigner.github.io if you would be willing to do a quick check of my site.

[neat crag]

First glance looks ok, but I try the Rhythm Knights "Play here" link on Chrome and the game doesn't seem to be responsive in any way after pressing Play. This is where many might just stop trying

[last comet]

It's a shame that they would end there, but it looks like I'll have to polish it up a bit, even though it's a jam entry. Thank you again!

[neat crag]

Think well on what you want to do at this point. One functional prototype, front and center, as the centerpiece would be nice. Your latest and best. All the rest are totally secondary, they might be looked at if the first piece is seen in a positive light.

[last comet]

I do have another full unreal project that I'm working on, that I'd like to put there, but it will probably take some time to get it to be something presentable

[woeful iron]

what is that rhythm knights supposed to be, just one combat screen where you select an ability and it does it? The enemies just stand there but you suddenly take very little damage, don't even have health. It sounds like it was supposed to be a rhythm game, but it's just pressing space bar atm

I mean it's something, but I wouldn't put it as the first thing on my website

[stiff flax]

hello, can someone look at my cv and tell me how to improve it?

[woeful iron]

would be easier if you just linked your cv directly

[stiff flax]

or also what can i learn next to put on my cv?

[plucky hatch]

What position are looking for?

[plucky hatch]

Rhythm knights is not working bro

[stiff flax]

hi, my main skill is programming in c++ but i'm familiar with unreal in general, i've touched a bit of every aspect of unreal, some more than others.

because i had to do it to release the game

[plucky hatch]

Any portfolio site?

[stiff flax]

no, but i have my game on steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2014410/Sword_King/ , that doesn't count as portfolio?

[pastel estuary]

generally recruiters dont want to have to go to other websites/pages/download things.
the experience for them needs to be short, accurate, and tothe point.
If they feel it isnt, they can just as well move to the next person in the hope they did a more thorrough job in convincing them.

[stiff flax]

so generally they don't look at portfolios?

[pastel estuary]

they do, but not at your steam page

[last comet]

Well, thank you all for the feedback - it has been very informative! It seems I underestimated how important the first entry would be compared to the others. I just sorted it by chronology -- my most recent project was just something short that I was able to crank out in a weekend.

[pastel estuary]

pinned messages in this channel also have some portfolio tips and links

[last comet]

The 'Killer Portfolio or Portfolio Killer' series? I'll have to look at that. The username does look familiar 😛

[pastel estuary]

yea, those are quite invaluable.

i just posted em though, no affiliation whatsoever

[last comet]

oh, I figured

For now, I'm just going to axe the Rhythm Knights from my projects. That puts my custom OpenGL engine at the top -- would it be worthwhile to make that into a playable prototype, or should I target more of finishing up an Unreal project to show off?

[pastel estuary]

I think just showcasing it is generally enough. not many will download and play it. showcasing multiple aspects and explaining in a way that shows you understand what you did might be the priority for a resume/folio

[woeful iron]

your first barrier - recruiters- really don't want to invest a lot of time before judging you

show what you have done and what you can do clear and simple, the less effort to see that you're good, the better

no one is gonna download a sample unless they're already interested

[last comet]

What would really stand out to you? To me, programming doesn't have the same flashiness that I imagine "grabbing" people like an animation reel or art portfolio would. A lot of the portfolios that I see are specifically for artists.

[woeful iron]

you can make a video of cool gameplay features for example

this is what I did ||https://dietertack.wordpress.com/||

[last comet]

thanks for sharing! I like the idea of the 'utilities used' section that you have on each contribution page... I think that would probably be helpful when describing my own contributions

[shut token]

This isn't true. You don't use Unreal. You've regained your sanity.

[woeful iron]

I haven't updated it in a while

[tame dune]

everything's going to work out

do you want to be making games in unreal, games generally or any software at this point?

[last comet]

I would prefer games, but I'm not opposed to software, in order to pay the bills

I do have a separate resume for more traditional software development... somewhere on my computer

[tame dune]

it's a really really big world out there. after sending 1,000 applications 1 of them will bite. don't be discouraged 🙂

[last comet]

Thank you! Hopefully I find something a little before the 1000 mark!

[solar stream]

Which mobile games are best for revenue hyper casual or fighting games

[round radish]

Addictive ones where you have to buy unlocks?

[solar stream]

yes

[merry roost]

@dire abyss What you just posted does not show enough overlap with Unreal Engine thus will not get accepted on this server. Ah thanks for removing :) Maybe it could even fit something like #augmented-reality if you show that the course does do more with UE? :)

[dire abyss]

Sorry, thought some tinkerers here would overlap with what it entails!

[worn bay]

Does anyone know what happened to #freelance-jobs ? All the postings are gone

[shut token]

They're still there - your stuff might just be buggy right now. Maybe having trouble receiving them from Discord's server.

[worn bay]

This is how it looks for me. What can I do to bring them back?

[round radish]

Each of those messages has a job description for me.

Restart Discord?

[granite solar]

If you're on PC, ctrl+r should force a refresh

[wary idol]

Enable embeddings

[worn bay]

I completely forgot I disabled those. Thank you!

[plucky hatch]

I'm building my second blockout level. I think I'm going to make 4 blockouts for the purpose of having a portfolio. I have no idea where to apply. I don't know if I should apply for Rockstar, Remedy, Ubisoft, Epic, Criterion, etc.

[pastel estuary]

depends on the quality of your portfolio/your experience.

[plucky hatch]

no experience

all I have is UT1 maps and three quake 3

[plucky hatch]

I never had any company in mind. Like daydreaming about the day I'd work in Naughty Dog or something like that.

[pastel estuary]

i'd just make some awesome looking stuff, or whatever it is that you enjoy doing. build portfolio, showcase in communities, guides --if you want to-- and eventually you'll land a job doing what you like. (hopefully)

[plucky hatch]

I'm trying to build really basic stuff to avoid overwhelming myself with huge projects that are never finished

[tame dune]

do you have a traditional educational background?

[plucky hatch]

yes, but I dropped out before finishing the degree (sciences)

[hoary peak]

Hey everyone. 5 year developer here, worked for between 25 and 40 dollars an hour for the last 2 years. would consider myself pretty intermediate. but have also solo shipped a multiplayer game to Steam.. which isn't that impressive these days it seems.. anyway what I wanted to talk about or ask about... I've been cruisin Indeed and it seems like 98 percent of the job postings are for Senior level positions.. where are all the other jobs? it seems pretty hard to find anything that's for your middle of the road developer right now..

[round radish]

Why not apply for the senior ones then?

If you don't get them, they might consider you for a lower level position.

[hoary peak]

yeaa I have been.. it's just tough, been laid off for about 6 weeks now.. wife is carrying the shit out of us lol

[plucky hatch]

a big part of my portfolio are the articles about design and level art.

[round radish]

Well, good luck! This is why you have savings!

[brave forge]

As i understand it, seniors are always in demand because the industry has a fairly high attrition rate. And the best you could do is apply for a senior position and see what the company decides. Job postings are often what the company wishes, but not what they'll settle for

[tame dune]

similarly... do you have a traditional educational background?

[tame dune]

where are all the other jobs?
i understand the despair

[woeful iron]

this is not a self promotion chat

if you want to post a job ad read #instructions

[merry roost]

Please read #instructions.

[half sundial]

I've made a tabletop game that I want to create as a game. I'm working on a prototype/mvp and want to use that to recruit more people for the game. Would that be considered a proper approach to getting a team together or should I do more / something different?

[winged dragon]

Hey guys

https://mediaspace.unrealengine.com/CourseCatalog

how do I get access to these courses and trainings ?

[hoary peak]

I do not.. I majored in psychology when I was in college.. but didn't learn game dev and programming till way later

[tame dune]

every situation is different and recruiting is hard. i personally try to do as much myself as possible

[plucky hatch]

do you know if writen articles about game design count as something? or showing a game or mechanics is what they want?

[pallid blade]

If you're marketing yourself as a game design/dev blogger then yes, absolutely. Writing samples are very important.

[tame dune]

who is they?

[plucky hatch]

they = game companies, recruiters

[tame dune]

it really tough to generalize. however, succinct is best

for example, at riot for R&D design roles, their initial design interview secretly tests how succinct you are

at blizzard, for interns, you're asked to write a hearthstone card. one secret test is that you choose to write a legendary

does that make sense?

naturally the response is, @plucky hatch if you have game design opinions, you know, make the game and prove it

a lot of games can be prototyped as card games. a hearthstone card is very succinct

niantic also tests how succinct you are - they don't have any design roles, they only have product management roles, but it's the same thing

you don't have to engineer a game if your idea fits on a hearthstone card

[plucky hatch]

I read about it with magic. They want a person who knows the game but, really understand every aspect of it. They asked to write, to answer multiple choice questions, to design cards, a lot of phases.

[tame dune]

yeah but they don't want people who show them a "balanced" card

nobody does

if you write a very meta tech rare, they will Command+W your application

do you see why?

[plucky hatch]

in magic a rare card is usually something powerful, but not overpowered

[tame dune]

one way to interpret these roles is, what if your game design stuff had a guaranteed audience?

for example, riot champion designers: if they release a champion, it is guaranteed to have an audience

instead of articles, design a champion or a hearthstone card or a CSGO level, etc. etc.

use the retail format. if you need an article to explain the why, it isn't going to pass muster with a player

@plucky hatch does that make sense?

[plucky hatch]

yes. I'm doing a blockout and trying to apply the knowledge about level design. Explain why a longer corridor over a shorter one, why stairs and nota lift, etc.

[tame dune]

another idea is that it's really hard to author and sell an fps level, especially for CSGO where people kind of play the same map all day

[tame dune]

Explain why a longer corridor over a shorter one, why stairs and nota lift, etc.
i personally wouldn't read the explanation

retail format meaning, like how does the game show the level

[plucky hatch]

Env art for instance. I don't see ppl explaining all the details of a scene.

Make the blockout and record a video playing it?

[cedar knot]

What does succinct even mean in this context

[grave cove]

the same thing it means in any context, the ability to describe complex things well with fewer words.

[chilly sundial]

I would imagine a good designer is able to communicate and plan ideas effectively and concisely, as opposed to incoherent rambling

[cedar knot]

Like verbally or written or both

[mint skiff]

Either, interviews are typically verbal though.

[cedar knot]

Idk feel like you’d need some level of leeway because …interviews and some people

But yeh idk what exactly is a designer anyway

[mint skiff]

Of course there's leeway it's not an exam

[brave forge]

Any interviewer worth their salt will give leeway to allow for nerves etc. It's all part of it.

[mint skiff]

But that's the point, they want to see if you can think on your feet

[cedar knot]

But what does a designer actually do tho outside of The project management type of stuff

[mint skiff]

Product design as a discipline is about collecting info about your users and translating their needs into something you can sell them

[brave forge]

usually responsible for coordinating and balancing the different systems, and working with the different teams to ensure it all goes smooth

[tame dune]

in my experience it is a tweet length of words

for example "add a new mechanic to cs:go"

expectation is to design a new grenade. it has to be obviously fun according to 140 characters

they don't really care Why

it should be obvious Why

[ivory echo]

So that’s who spams us with “personalized ads” 😀

[mint skiff]

probably more marketings job

[ivory echo]

Implement nine-banger: flash your teammates into oblivion with only one throw. Loads of fun

[chilly sundial]

1 up the 9 banger with an 18 banger and blot out the sun with one grenade throw

[steel creek]

Or just use the single Big Bang Banger and fill it all out again.

[full zenith]

Can anyone tell me about careers and roles in game development, Unreal Engine to be precise, I'm a UI designer and I'm developing interests in game development lately, I'm currently considering installing it anytime soon, have to clear my laptop off unused stuff to free spaces. I'll look forward to your responses everyone.

[mossy oar]

You pretty much answered your own question. If you're a UI designer, you can get jobs designing and implementing UI.

[modern relic]

Why didn't you give me the job then?

[brave forge]

Weak handshake

unacceptable, sorry

[modern relic]

https://tenor.com/view/anna-faris-scary-movie-little-hands-no-gif-12050294

[urban egret]

I recommend installing the engine before you look for jobs in it

[full zenith]

Games ui on figma? Are u sure

[full zenith]

After installing it, I doubt if I'll know the careers in it through that. However, I'm not looking for job in unreal engine, I'm asking if there are different careers being a game developer. Or just one person can sit down and develop a full blow working game

[brave forge]

I'm asking if there are different careers being a game developer.
Yes
Or just one person can sit down and develop a full blow working game
Also yes.

The question is the scale of the project, the timeline and the aimed for quality

[urban egret]

You can be a UI designer in games, I just recommend getting hands-on with engines because it's always appreciated when artists and designers can go in and do some things from start to finish.

not talking entire games here, just the bits you're interested in

[brave forge]

Yes, there are UI designers, there are UI technical designers too which focus on doing fancy effects and integrating them with the world, there are a LOT of roles involved in game development, AAA games will have very very large amount of varying roles, while indie projects will get away with 1-2 people doing the bulk of the work

[brave forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaHlhkmVDoI

This is a decent look at a part of the technical side of UI's in unreal

[full zenith]

Thank you big man ❤

[brave forge]

also checkout the courses on UMG on the developer center site

https://dev.epicgames.com/community/unreal-engine/getting-started/games

checkout the learning tab on the left

[full zenith]

Alright, much appreciated bro

[cedar knot]

Makes sense

Okay game dev, realistically what would I need to have in the portfolio

Do I need a full on completed game even if it’s small or can I get away with components and systems I’ve made for games

[brave forge]

Depends entirely on what roles you are going for. If it's relatively confined, like character modelling, you can probably just get by with model shots, but you'd definitely have bonus points for showing it rigged and integrated into something, like replacing the character in the kite demo. Same applies for other roles, minimum is demonstrating the core competency, definite bonus points for showing you can integrate it into a larger work. Do you need a full game? Probably not, but have a few demos can definitely show you are somewhat well rounded and can integrate your work

[cedar knot]

Programming side

Mainly

Well not mainly

Only 😂

[elder thicket]

Simple 2 players LAN connection in oculus quest 2 application from scratch to package tutorial???

[chilly sundial]

you wont find one

that isnt simple

[weary yacht]

Hi, Can Anyone tell what it takes to get a job as a fresh game developer like a freshman.

I recently got my Batchelors degree in computer science and want to apply for game developer job in foreign countries like US or Canada, but I really don't know if they want to hire new people that don't have previous job experience.. I want to be a level designer specifically but as long as I work in game development environment it'll be a dream come true.

[chilly sundial]

I mean from junior and intern roles i've seen none of them expect experience, that's the point of a low level position.
You'll want a good portfolio though.

[weary yacht]

Like what should be in my portfolio?

[chilly sundial]

depends what you want to go into. Personally not sure what a level designer needs for it, but for environment art for example, you want environments you've made.

if you search for "portfolio" in this channel, there have been many good portfolio discussions

[weary yacht]

Oh that I am working on a game from Unreal engine 4 until now Unreal engine 5.2 still going, I did it as a university final year project, but it was so good I decided to complete it somehow and publish it.

[weary yacht]

OK I'll check that out.

[tame dune]

your best bet is to leetcode trying to work for people you already know, like maybe alumni of your university

after the first job you get after graduation, the job market changes a lot

[cedar knot]

Loool

It gets way easier I’m guessing same as any other field

[tame dune]

hmm... people with traditional educational backgrounds get this 1 shot after graduating where it is relatively meritocratic. like there's a process, you leetcode and hopefully you've leetcoded better than others and you get your thing

after that, in my experience, cold applications have near random odds

because it's not in a process anymore, so there might be 100 candidates, and "doubling" your odds by being amazing only takes you from 1/100 to 1/50

instead you wind up working for people you know

i.e., where you are the only person competing for a job made for you

portfolios are tough with unreal engine because it's so glitchy hardly anyone has a working game

in which case, just make a concept video

[cedar knot]

Uhmm

[cedar knot]

Uhmm got an answer before but it was targeted to the art side I suppose but programming wise what would I need in a portfolio

Can I get away with for example hey I made these cool plugins or like actor components etc

Just to clarify tho I’m not a graduate tho I work in something completely unrelated to cs or game dev buuuut idk just on that mark where I should apply elsewhere and one of them see if I can do my hobby for a job type of thing

[tame dune]

there are a lot of sophisticated people out there, and there's a long journey to the level of sophistication you need to be able to talk about something like applying to jobs strategically

I can do my hobby for a job type of thing
no

does that make sense?

you can do it as a hobby

lol

[mossy oar]

You were asking about Unreal engine, not Figma.

Figma is a decent tool for UI or application flow design though.

[chilly sundial]

i mean that just ain't true

[tame dune]

Or just one person can sit down and develop a full blow working game
yes, but it's harder to do that in unreal than anything else. however, unreal is great for getting games financed even if it's not the best for getting them made

[chilly sundial]

yes, but it's harder to do that in unreal than anything else.
Again, patently false.

[mossy oar]

If you are just starting programming and game development (programming specifically) I recommend learning using the www.flatredball.com engine.

[chilly sundial]

in fact for simple games, unreal can be one of the simplest with blueprints. its why there are so many poorly made asset flips made in ue
buy some packs and use free assets, slap in some easy peasy blueprints, package and release.

[tame dune]

different careers being a game developer.
figma for game stuff exists. but you'll be working on like, The Website for the Game

and it'll have the same challenges as anything else.

[granite solar]

UE is one of the only game engines that enables you to make a full fledged game without writing a line of code. I.e., a lot easier than most for one person to make a full blown working game.

[mossy oar]

Ultimately if you are asking questions about how to break into games, or how to get a job, likely what you need to do is just start making very tiny games on your own or with friends.

Since there is nothing magical or mysterious about finding a job posting online and applying for it. I recommend anyone looking to break into game development to just go look at a bunch of job postings and see what the requirements are for different positions. That will give you an idea of what you will need to get a job. Ultimately though, you'll just need to jump in and start making SMALL (VERY SMALL) [CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH TO START SMALL] ((THEN CUT THE SCOPE IN HALF))

games.

[chilly sundial]

Ultimately though, you'll just need to jump in and start making SMALL (VERY SMALL) [CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH TO START SMALL] ((THEN CUT THE SCOPE IN
HALF))

So make an MMORPG with 1000 unique quests?

[mossy oar]

You got it. Nailed it in one.

[chilly sundial]

I'm so good at this :P

[tame dune]

i understand this looks really good, but on the other hand, it is a video, you could also make a video and render it out

it doesn't matter if it does or does not "work."

there aren't any games you'd play where the camera moves like that either

[weary yacht]

No I just want to say

Is that good enough for portfolio?

[tame dune]

lol

portfolio for what?

[ashen shore]

for Linkedin

[tame dune]

i think it looks nice 🙂

but i will be honest that whether or not you get a gig from a portfolio is basically random

it's an xyproblem sort of thing

are you familiar with xy problem?

[ashen shore]

nope

[tame dune]

https://xyproblem.info/

your attempted solution is a nice portfolio. but what is your actual problem

[ashen shore]

my problem is to get a job in a game dev studio

i want to learn

[tame dune]

do you have a traditional educational background?

[ashen shore]

yeah

the exact issue with this all job thing is that I live in pakistan and you suggested one can work for friends or anyone they know of

in my case this is impossible because its pakistan making guns is easier then typing a letter in word 😄

so I want to get out and get a job in industry

[tame dune]

that I live in pakistan
it sounds like this is your "y" and naturally i have no idea about that

[granite solar]

What kind of job? Programming, audio, art, production, the list goes on. If you're looking for programming job, that video is pretty much worthless. If you're looking for environment art, then it's useful.

[cedar knot]

Yes but what if I feel I’m good at it 😎

Well not good tbh

But okay 🥺

[granite solar]

And c'mon, at least rotate the trees 😂

[cedar knot]

Naa we don’t do that here

Pakistan has uniform trees didn’t you know

That sounded really bad 🥺 mb it was a crappy joke

[granite solar]

I mean, most game devs probably started out doing it as a hobby. At least a lot of people I know did, including me.

[cedar knot]

Exactly

That’s why ngl was a bit uh wtf how does doing it as a hobby mean I should just do it as a hobby

Doing it as a hobby != I’m dog shit at it … even if I am it ain’t cos it’s a hobby 🥺

[modern relic]

But late but the main issue isn't really whether it's easy or not, it's the sheer amount of work required to make an actual decent game. There is always hurdles and complications with every single game, even giant big ass triple a studios with decades of experience and dozens of releases run into these same problems. As projects mature, the amount of problems increases as well which obviously makes it more difficult to progress

[cedar knot]

naa just mean in terms of getting another job

you just have more....evidence of your skills

[modern relic]

Ah ye definitely. Making a portfolio sucks and anyone who says otherwise probably isn't in a position where their career depends on it

[empty quiver]

if youre good at it people will hapily pay you to do it. so if you really want to get paid doing something, show people that you can do it and do it well. then you can ask for money. dont over think it.

[cedar knot]

and we go back to the question...what to include in a portfolio if your more on the programming side... what would be the min reqs atleast

feel like people are answering everything but the actual question 😦

[modern relic]

Links to github are helpful but as has been said before recruiters are usually allergic to navigating away from your application/resume. Make some cool stuff, post it to the marketplace or github or something where they can either view the code or view the result

[empty quiver]

well the question was what if i feel im good at it. i think i gave a good answer to that. i understand what youre saying is thats not necessarily the correct question. what to include? demontrate what you can do now and how long it took you to get to that stage. so early work, plus some more advanced skills and some sort of timeline for your progress. every one starts somewhere and noone knows everything so just show what you can do and how well you learn new skills. like i said dont need to overthink it. its the same as getting any job.

[mossy oar]

Design is probably the hardest position to get in a game company, because often designers are ALSO programmers or artists. I.E. they were programmers and artists first, then became designers later. This isn't a global rule, but is often the case.

As with any job, people want to see that you can work hard and get stuff done. If you're applying for Junior positions in any of the disciplines, that just means having a portfolio of stuff you can show prospective employers which indicates that you can do work.

[weary yacht]

Thank you, it's not that I am bound to do exactly one thing it's just momentarily, as soon as I step into the game dev environment I'll try to get as much help as possible and speed up my learning process, specially blueprints,
One good thing is that I have real passion for game development so I guess I'll be fine as long as I keep up the hardwork.

[cedar knot]

Cool thanks that makes sense

[plucky hatch]

just out of curiosity has anyone here had their boss/manager approach them about using AI to code yet?

i know eventually AI will replace just about everyone and everything but it was a surprise to actually hear it in the workplace recently

[shut token]

Sounds like some typical middle management

"We should do {buzzword}"

[steady pewter]

everyone and everything, subscribe now!

Some companies already have rules about it, IP is a thing.

[digital surge]

U having problems to getting hired? Geez I have no chance

[digital surge]

And what country is this dud?

[round radish]

People don't write what they need. They write what their ideal is. It's all bullshit.

Just apply. If you have even some of the skills they are looking for, you're in with a chance.

[mossy oar]

Apply anyway.

If you're junior, apply for junior titled positions even if they have mid-senior level requirements. Because they will quickly figure out that no mid or senior level people are applying.

[chilly sundial]

Worst that will happen is they don't respond. Or blacklist you for a year, from what I have seen from some companies

[mossy oar]

Nobody blacklists anybody for an application.

[chilly sundial]

Might be regional. I've seen a fair few companies over here that prevent you applying for a year if you get denied

Seems really weird, not going to lie

[mossy oar]

HR has enough on their plate, you think they are spending time managing and updating some blacklist? Not a chance

[ivory echo]

It might not be HR. Those shitty ATS systems might be capable of that, but idk that anyone would actually blacklist you unless you did something crazy

[rapid iron]

I agree with it. I spam applications. I do not get any replies though.

[spice dagger]

@cyan drum This is not the channel to look to hire someone. Read the #instructions channel on how to post a Job listing.

[spice marsh]

What country is it mate?

[feral urchin]

Hi guys, I got a project with some budget, I'm a developer but not a video game developer. I have 2 testers and a professional level designer with me.

Could someone sum me up what would be the best approach to concretize the project? Hire a sutdio, hire in-house devs, freelancers?

[mint skiff]

design doc, dev plan and prototypes?

which can inform whether you need more help and from who

[feral urchin]

GDD is almost complete. It contains a breakdown of the different builds we'd like to have (like demo as v1, more features in v2, MP in v3 etc).
It's similar to 2 existing games, 1 is on UE4, so we don't have prototypes but some illustrated examples.

[round radish]

Maybe your application itself needs work?

[round radish]

I don't necessarily mean your portfolio. I mean any sort of covering letter you send or your cv.

[woeful iron]

maybe it's your face 😔

[round radish]

You can have the best portfolio in the world, but if you just say, "give job now pls <portfolio link>" nobody is going to see it.

(I'm not suggesting you've done that!)

[rapid iron]

I applied saying I am an Unreal developer (including my CV also mentioning this specifically) but they are gave me a Graphic cpp and DirectX based test just today.

Feels like some HR do not even read the CV these days

[woeful iron]

were they looking for a unreal developer?

or just general graphics programmer or something?

[feral urchin]

Better send it to me, I'm hiring

[woeful iron]

are you making bmx game?

I don't think that's necessarily the reason

they probably value knowledge of generic graphics API's in general

depends on what they do

but clearly something went wrong in communication if you and them were not in line about it being a complete unreal job

nothing you can do about it now

[feral urchin]

without the B

[woeful iron]

depends who you ask

in general I would say no

but theoretically speaking yes

congratulations

[rapid iron]

Thank you !

[feral urchin]

Depends on your skills but yeah, I’ll kickstart a project in July

We are fine tuning the GDD

[feral urchin]

I opened my DM, let's chat

[plucky hatch]

So Digital Dragons receives applications to become a speaker and if they accept you, they pay for it
I should consider this as a way to boost a career
https://digitaldragons2023.syskonf.pl/call-for-speakers

[steel creek]

is that a question, or a subtle lead?

[plucky hatch]

both

[round radish]

Pretty sure if you can be accepted to talk there you probably don't need a career boost.

[modern relic]

Yep or at least very well established with interesting insights, enough for say, a speech

[void fjord]

I'm in a bit of a pickle, I've been a ue4 modder for a long time, even maintaining an unofficial SDK for a game before it's official SDK released.
I've also been building tools for modders of said game.
But I feel I can't apply for a job successfully in the unreal engine industry

when I show my work I get the feeling employers just see it as not real Unreal engine work.
I pursue multiple avenues from materials to game logic, animation and UI and feel I've learnt so much but can't somehow express it

and then I look at artstation and go wow I'm just so far behind those guys

I'm looking for advice on how to get out of this situation and prove that I'm ue4 competent to prospective employers

[tame dust]

Hello my team and I are looking for a game developer for our project. For more information message me

[chilly sundial]

Post to the job board

This isn't somewhere to hire people

[modern relic]

Don't compare yourself to other developers for starters, it's pointless. Prepare a portfolio that showcases your work. Maybe write up some blog posts about what you have done, what challenges you faced and how you went about solving them. Is your stuff well known in this game's community? If so, you can use that popularity in your portfolio/resume

[void fjord]

Thank you, organising work for a blog is pretty rough as I have ADHD but I will try

[modern relic]

ye its going to be rough to start with. it sounds like you have a decent background and possibly some work to show. technical writeups/videos would also help you out

[sturdy oak]

I am a game development fanatic.

[modern relic]

Most people who are game devs do it because they enjoy it. It sure isn't because it's a thankful and lucrative industry

[gaunt crescent]

Learning this as an Indie, haha.
Even if you know what you're doing and are able to create a v slice, you've still got a lot of work cut out for you.

[modern relic]

It's even more difficult if you don't have money, or don't have a decent team. Not having people who are invested in your project or are willing to do some kind of deferred payment sucks

[gaunt crescent]

The team I've got is mostly just lacking marketing. In theory, we could launch this game without any financial aid, but releasing a game without an audience isn't exactly ideal.

[white oracle]

good things will rise to the top COPIUM

still, it is somewhat true

[gaunt crescent]

you trying to steal my marketing strategy?

[oblique ice]

calm down

[inner sage]

Marketing is VITAL to anything success literally anything, there is a few places you can find marketeers such as fiveer, it would massively negatively affect your overall games performance on the market if you do no prior marketing

[gaunt crescent]

Thank you. I know it's extremely important, I'd say even more important than the game itself, wasn't aware of fiver having that, though.
I appreciate it.

[rocky bison]

This is great information for me. Many thanks

[rotund nymph]

Hi! I asked a couple months ago about graphics programming as a specialization and have been learning a bit since. I did an OpenGL course to get an overview of how GPU things work. Now, I am unsure as to how to follow. Doing courses is not very time-efficient and I don't really get to put into practise the things I learn, so maybe it would be nice to find some project/implementation to do in Unreal that is fitting for a novice and also useful/handy to my project. Any suggestions? Maybe I should learn how the RHI works to begin with

[patent oracle]

Polar opposite problems to mine, got the audience but don't have an ambitious team to spread the workload. All you really need is a quality product and 1 good contact with an audience 😉

[covert onyx]

@thorny ferry Hey man random question. How many job offers do you get? You seem to be a prominent figure here, and even have your own website

[modern relic]

at least 1 a day from me

[gaunt crescent]

I'm going to go out like Borat looking for contacts soon then, just bag them and run off.

[patent oracle]

What I got the most success with was just sending emails to influencers in the genre and sending them keys to the game, no strings attached.

[gaunt crescent]

Unfortunately, most of my contacts aren't exactly helpful for my market.. and targeting the mobile market as a western developer is comically difficult because western AAA studios have dropped the ball and overcomplicated things.

Like my 3d artist (some 2d too) is friends with one of the artists for recent dragon ball movies.

[gaunt crescent]

interesting, I'll give that a go.

[patent oracle]

Even if just one of them picks it up it will bring some new eyes and start a conversation.

[thorny ferry]

Hey!
I got like two in the past two weeks, but they came from friends I know online 🙂
The other offers usually come through my LinkedIn, but they are one in a month on average xD

[patent oracle]

You've got the foundations then to make something valuable!

[covert onyx]

Do you mind if I ask you some basic questions?

[gaunt crescent]

Agreed. I'm going to have to get some more people playtesting before I send it out to influencers, who knows what horrible bugs the important people will find

[thorny ferry]

Sure go ahead

[patent oracle]

Especially for mobile you'd want to have the game as smoothly running as possible so yeah testing is a must.

[shadow cloak]

Hi

[covert onyx]

What got you into UE4, and coding overall?
Do you make a lot of solo projects or generally work with teams
What got you so into making multiplayer games. It seems like multiplayer/replication is something you're very used to

[thorny ferry]

I moved into UE4 for two simple reasons:

1. I'm more into 3D games than 2D
2. Open source and that jazz

No I don't make any solo projects tbh, but I enjoy reading a lot (articles and source code)

Multiplayer affection comes from the fact that I love playing multiplayer games, and yeah it's been 1.5 years since I've been revamping my multiplayer experience

I had like 0.5 year from 4 years back

[covert onyx]

That's really cool, it's awesome to see you helping out people. I think you've def inspired and helped an insane number of people

Have you ever worked on any big name projects?

[thorny ferry]

I really hope so, and sadly my helping has decreased much since I've hunted my current job

Currently I work on Lords of the Fallen

The next promising dark fantasy RPG

[covert onyx]

Now THATS cool, Ive heard a bit of good things abt that game

Did you get a higher form of education or all self taught?

[thorny ferry]

Yeah, I'm almost at the end of my bachelors in Computer Science

But game development wise it's all self taught

[covert onyx]

Ah that makes sense, well thank you I was curious about a couple things. Good luck man!

[thorny ferry]

No worries, feel free to always ask 😉

And good luck to you too!

[gaunt crescent]

what a coincidence, I just watched that trailer

going to agree, looks really promising.

[thorny ferry]

I've been working on the game for like half a year, but it's been in the works for almost 3 years, so it gotta be good 😄

We still have many work to do in the time frame we still have

Hopefully things go right™️ and the game sells well

[gaunt crescent]

I'm looking forward to it. I don't get enough time to game these days, but I'll add it to my list of games to watch out for.

[gaunt crescent]

trailer sells it well, I'm wishing you all luck!

[thorny ferry]

Hopefully, thanks for the best wishes!

[shut token]

Ah - so now I have a contact to complain to when the game launches with shader caching hitches 😈

[mint skiff]

Only insomuch as UEFN has been around for all of a few months

But art is art 🤷‍♀️

[steady pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-gif-26050971

[weary flower]

i need help pls guys my unreal engine is showing this i tried to do many things played around in the settings for a while too but cant fix it i also reinstalled the software still the same black screen PLEASE HELP ME OUT!!!

[rotund nymph]

in my experience companies that look you down for doing things are the ones you don't wanna work for anyway. Doing something related to the careear and being succesful already says somethinng about the person

[steel creek]

In other words, when looking for a job looking at the environment is very important.

You should always try to find your people.

People who reject your work just on the aesthetic or style value that they don't find subjectively pleasing are not wrong, they are simply not your people.

[round radish]

Do you have a career in missing unreal engine tabs?

It depends why people like it, tbh. If it's fun because it's well designed, it might not get you any art points. And vice versa.

Hopefully it was both... if badly named. 😄

[static urchin]

very valuable rn.
Most employers in it will be interested in ability to build stuff for a brand... so a generic fight-arena maybe only just shows you know how to arrange things in the outliner... but if you have some good technical things, or a thorough theme - you will do very well

[fading hatch]

Okay... so.... how do I tell a customer that I've by accident deleted the whole project I've been working on for a long time ??
There is no way out of it and tomorrow I'm supposed to show them the progress x)

[mint grove]

Would any Level Designers be available to give me some feedback on my portfolio? https://terrahoecker.wixsite.com/portfolio

[modern relic]

Tell them you are severely under qualified to work on their project because you don't have any kind of vcs or backups then offer to comp the work and then some

[lusty peak]

wixsite, gideon, adventure -- went to full sail

[lusty peak]

You're covering the wrong aspects of your project.
You can talk a little bit about your implementation with pureref but you don't need a bunch of sections talking about a mood board.

A picture does not enough to speak about your issue

"WRONG: This experience taught me a valuable lesson on the importance of player/object proximity. By scoping down the space to its core gameplay basics,"

etc I have no idea what you're talking about.

It would be much better to break down your content into small videos

Adding assets to your project / other milestones doesn't actually constitute "alpha/beta/GM" releases.

You have a section about a "pirate ship blueprint" and its just a screenshot but didn't cover what challenges you faced with this, why its implemented, your thought process, workarounds, solutions etc.

Overall I would recommend breaking down your portfolio into something like this:
-Game info: Your role, team size, engine used, completion date, development time

• Game Overview

• Your Responsibilities

• Main Goals of this project

• Challenges you faced as individual tasks and how you worked with your team

• Highlight feature you're proud of and breaking down how, why, and what of it.

And just in general, you need to get more involved in other projects, and avoid "adventure" and "gideon" as much as you can because recruiters see this about 1000 times

Also, always include a download link or somewhere to play the game

[fading hatch]

I Had it on three Machines, but a very unlucky coincidence happened.
I copied the files from the "production" PC to an external hardrive to then copied it to a different Workstation. I worked on it on that Workstation shortly and realized the Models I updated yesterday were Not there so I was working on an older Version?. I deleted it and opened the Project on the hardrive to See If it's the right one. That was a mistake. The hardrive Crashed and needed to repair 2 times and only the config and other unimportant folders remained.
Anyway I still had a Backup on the "Production" machine. But when I checked it the folder was gone. I must have cut-pasted it instead of Copy paste.
I restored the files on both Workstations. The Files had the right size but we're filled with 0 Bytes. Because of a stupid M.2 space allocation default setting in Windows that overwrites the space immediatly with zeros once you delete some files.
I'm still trying to restore the Buggy external Drive.
It was a 13 GB Project.
But yeah reality is I fucked up badly and you are probably right. The question is more how to take that L professionally x)

[frosty urchin]

how does the market look for game developers right now

and for the professional game devs in here, how long were you working with games before you considered yourselves hireable?

[agile thicket]

epic is actively hiring unreal engine devs for valorant, they rejected me though 😭 my web industry experience isn't relevant enough

sorry not epic, riot!

[plucky hatch]

Do you guys think I should I include on my CV that I did a 3 month internship as a game designer if I'm applying for a QA tester role?

[brave forge]

LOL. I was gonna say that's an interesting corporate structure!

[brave forge]

If it was 10 years ago, probably not. If it's recent, yeah it seems like relevant work experience

[plucky hatch]

cuz now the issue is my work experience as a game tester for 2 years is way down on my CV

do employers read the whole CV?

I heard they only check the top

I even heard they spend 5 seconds reading it

[brave forge]

Depends on the reviewer, but usually they scan job titles quickly, see how relevant, recent and extensive your history is, and then on roles that pique their interest they'll scan for keywords in the job role description, and then they put you on the "interested" or "not interested" piles

so yeah, relevant job titles definitely should go on there

[agile thicket]

I had a QA tester role 5 years ago and it has been very relevant every time I've applied to a new dev job. I didn't think it would be. Anything related to your field or people you will be working with is good experience.

[white steppe]

Well, I'll tell you the hiring in Japan that they might check how many times you've switched your company which sounds ridiculous but yeah, that's Japan

If you switched more than 5 companies, it could be hard in Japan to find the next position. But I don't care, lol

[agile thicket]

definitely very different in america, most people in my linkedin network switch companies every 2-3 years

if not sooner

[plucky hatch]

why do you think they do that

[mint skiff]

I think it's a tech industry thing

[white steppe]

It based on projects, especially in game industry. Usually a project ends, people will think about leaving to find a better position.

[agile thicket]

it's just better for the individual. you get new experience, often better pay, you can leave behind a toxic environment you've grown to hate for a new exciting toxic environment you dont hate yet

[mint skiff]

Moving is often also the best way to boost your pay

[agile thicket]

it beats a 3% raise every year for staying for sure

[white steppe]

But it usually happens like you won't find that's a toxic environment until you work for a while, right?

[agile thicket]

yep. personally i ignore red flags really hard and Aware 6-8 months in

[plucky hatch]

lol most of them are toxic environments

its like a cultural thing

[white steppe]

I had some experience with toxic environments or something the job is too boring.

Like they don't really give you tasks but paying you good. Still make me feel uncomfortable, lol

I'm not that old to be stay relaxing you know...

[plucky hatch]

How do I write on my CV that I did level art in a more professional manner?

[agile thicket]

sounds fantastic when you're learning gamedev in your free time

[white steppe]

This could be a good question asking AI chatting bot but I won't copy paste them all. I'll check the words carefully then use the text.

[plucky hatch]

chat GPT?

[white steppe]

Any

Claude, bard or GPT, yes

[agile thicket]

yea give the AI as much detail about you did and ask it to make it sound nice lol

[plucky hatch]

lol GPT is so OP

[agile thicket]

i use it to write my cover letters

[white steppe]

Some people too sloppy that just not checking even a word then copy paste the text

That's not good, lol

[agile thicket]

i copy paste the job posting into chat gpt and say give me a cover letter for this job

[plucky hatch]

damn this is pretty good

All of this is good except those words I crossed out in red

I just have to rephrase some sentences

[mint grove]

I don't understand "A picture does not enough...". In regards to the WRONG section, to clarify, heres the whole thing, hopefully it makes more sense when you read it all the way through: "This experience taught me a valuable lesson on the importance of player/object proximity. By scoping down the space to its core gameplay basics, *the player would have more breathing room. *Having certain objects to close also created camera clipping, which broke immersion. This too was taken in consideration early on in blockmesh, so it wouldn’t be a deterrent later in alpha." Also in regards to the milestones, I didn't mention assets for my alpha explanation. For me personally, assets migration was the main priority for beta and partially in the beginning of gold, before a major asset freeze. In regards to the pirate ship blueprint, if you look under the picture theres an explanation of my thought process. I appreciate the feedback greatly! I will try to add more about my game overview, my role and i'll try my best to keep the adventure name out of the title. Should I change the gideon out with someone new?

[visual schooner]

Hey Guys I can translate from english to spanish and vice versa i can offer voulenteer or cheap services depending on project size and would be happy to help people get their games dialouge avaliable in both 🙂

[lusty peak]

Not even taking an L professionally, if you don't know what source control is you need to figure out what perforce / git is quick

[lusty peak]

Yes change out that gideon seriously idc what any teacher at fullsail says. Look at the character's left arm. It has been incorrectly weight painted for well over a year. The SFX are also horrible lmao

Overall I think what you wrote in that reply is just a little too verbose, try to avoid buzzwords and extra word fluff to make what you're designing sound more involved than it really is, camera clipping / minor issues aren't major roadblocks that recruiters are going to be looking for. They want to see specific design / programming challenges you had to overcome or workaround or even throw away or say what u would do different if u had more time.

I think you have a misunderstanding of what alpha/beta/gold is. This entire project is a prototype. You have not gone through a full production cycle with internal testing, public testing, rewrote code to a level that significantly changes MVP to final product. It's just a level

[chilly sundial]

I've heard some bad rep of full sail producing graduates that aren't that great.

I'd definitely take anyone's advice over full sail tutorship

[mint grove]

The weight painting is weird, you’re right about that! Lol. Although, If you read the explanations more carefully you will see I did mention specific design challenges I had to overcome and throwaway. Also If you remember from the project, the whole project was broken up into prototype/ pre alpha/ alpha/ beta / gold. That’s why I have my postmortem broken up that way. And yea it is just a level, because it’s level design 😂 . I don’t know why you would think I would be programming anything. Did you not attend FullSail? Or did you have friends that went? If you did it seems like they had you working on something completely different. Just out of curiosity, where may I view your portfolio for some inspiration and guidance?. to be clear, I did go through internal and public testing numerous times as well as make significant changes to the level by rewriting code. The whole climbing mechanic was re written by me. I’ll try to mention that in my next iterations of my portfolio and make some changes like you mentioned to make it more clearer for recruiters. Thank you for the feedback again! 🙂

[pallid blade]

I dm'd you some reference portfolios. I hope you find them useful.

Absolutely nothing wrong with using Wix btw. Great tool for student portfolios.

[ivory echo]

Kinda like the latest AAA releases. MVP = final product 😀

[round radish]

If the vertical slice doesn't crash, it's a finished product, right?!

Just patch the rest in later or sell dlc.

[ivory echo]

Yeah, or just add more microtransactions and milk it until the next iteration of the asset flip comes out.

[light tendon]

Hello, I was recently gifted a pc built by one of my friends but I was unsure what graphics card to purchase so I can use unreal smoothly. (first time building and adding parts for a pc) which would you guys recommend??

[brave forge]

#hardware would be the best place for advice

[plucky hatch]

For my cover letter if I dont know the name of the recruiter what do I write?

[agile thicket]

Esteemed reader,

[round radish]

Dear Sir/Madam works too

[plucky hatch]

I was wondering

Is there anyone here willing to review my cover letter?

It would be greatly appreciated

[round radish]

Did you mention that you parents were killed in an alley outside a movie theatre?!

[plucky hatch]

Well I want the job so I will have to refrain from sharing that information lol

[round radish]

😛

[modern relic]

Nah nah gotta be fax

[plucky hatch]

!chat

[steady pewter]

!no

[hybrid heath]

What’s up, I’m Mike. Hoping to meet a few people interested in helping me get an idea off the ground. I have what I believe to be a fire game idea. If you have some experience and are interested in hearing more about an ambitious and original game hit me up

[chilly sundial]

this is not the place for recruitment. look at the channel description

sounds like you want the job board

[hybrid heath]

Less of a job posting more of a invitation to collaborate!

[chilly sundial]

yeah, that's still job board territory, think of it less of posting a job, and looking to acquire team members, or help outside of the scope of a short discord conversation :P

[hybrid heath]

Beautiful thank you!

[chilly sundial]

no problem :)

[deep mural]

Hi guys, I'm trying to make it big but I can't really start yet, I have some people who will work for me but I'm unsure how NDAs work, I created one during chatgpt but it's kinda just useless because I have no idea how it works. Do I need a lawyer for this type of stuff? I don't want to share any details of the game without NDAs being signed

Workers will not be paid at the beginning if this makes the NDA for complicated, do the NDAs have to be under a company?

I'm up to do research if that's the only way but just want to know my options

[modern relic]

I would get an actual real solicitor to write your NDA since it's legally binding, however unless you have the means to enforce it I wouldnt even bother since solicitors are quite expensive

[mint skiff]

probably going to be hard to enforce an NDA with no consideration

[deep mural]

What can I do to assure that these people don't just see my game ideas, potentially steal my ideas or even assets. And then just make there own game? I get that trust is needed but I'm not founding a business on trust

[modern relic]

Nothing

[deep mural]

Was hoping you wouldn't say that

[modern relic]

Unless you have a shit ton of money to pay legal teams to protect this for you

Plus no offence but the chances that your ideas are so great they are worth people stealing are quite low, and of the people that would steal them, the chances they have the resources to realise those ideas is low

[deep mural]

100% true, more of the fact of assets or executables, or even worse the direct source code being leaked

Well more of stolen

[modern relic]

Your project is covered under implied copyright and any third part code and assets are usually covered under their own licence so by someone stealing your project they would be breaching your copyright and the licences of the third party code and assets

[deep mural]

Automatically?

[modern relic]

That's its own legal thing which you do not need NDA or NCA for

Yes

[deep mural]

Good to know, anything I should be concerned about when trying to do this stuff? You seem like you know your stuff

[modern relic]

The best you can do without significant legal resources is if you find out someone has leaked or stolen your project (or any part of it) is immediately revoke their access and don't accept their services again. If they publicly leak it so what? They in a few weeks/months they will have an outdated/unfinished version of your project

[deep mural]

Right, alright then thank you.

Glad I didn't need to do this NDA bs atm tbh

[spice dagger]

Ensure you take the your time to properly vet people you work with online, especially within a financial capacity.

[modern relic]

If you find leaks of your stuff you can always DMCA it, that's what it's for

[spice dagger]

If you are new to hiring online or freelancing, you are likely to be burnt by people.

You will learn over time what the red flags are and generally how to approach a financial arrangement such that you are protected.

[deep mural]

Yeah 100%, I have known some of these people for awhile and one of them vouched for some but of course those vouched are under my sight

and generally how to approach a financial arrangement such that you are protected.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

[modern relic]

It means exactly what it says

[spice dagger]

Employ strategies and terms that ensure you are not going to left out to dry by someone who might want to take advantage of you.

Also, I'm assuming you are going to be in the lower bracket in terms of financial capacity/expectation. So realize that you are likely to get what you pay for.

[deep mural]

Yeah makes sense

[spice dagger]

In my experience, as a Moderator here. A lot of issues stem from unrealistic expectations of people paying low rates

Dont expect AAA quality if you are paying $10/hr for example.

Dont hold back paying someone what you asked for/agreed to because it isnt AAA quality when you are paying $10/hr

[white steppe]

10/hr is like working as a pizza delivery...

[spice dagger]

Yep and people who are starting their career as a freelancer is likely to charge low hourly because they are still hard at work defining their skillset.

[pastel estuary]

if you are kind to them, give advice, actually pay them, and are supportive of their work, they'll have a good experience and --generally-- will do their current best for you.

[spice dagger]

Honesty and integrity are always the best policy.

[deep mural]

Also, appreciate the help guys

[deep mural]

@modern relic I should've asked, what are actual trademarks for then?

Since copyright is basically a given right

[woeful iron]

trademark is more about the brand/company than the thing you make

[slim sand]

Anyone know how to post to the #hire-a-freelancer channel?

[woeful iron]

#instructions knows

[slim sand]

thanks

[raven trench]

How does a junior find a job in the market

[woeful iron]

by applying to one

and have good enough skills and strong portfolio to get it

[grave snow]

I think this would be the correct channel, apologies if it isnt.

Hello, so I'm aiming to get a job in the industry, so i've been working on a website to at least get ready for when i have work i think is suitable to showcase on it as a portfolio.
Though i have concerns that any work i will produce will not be strong enough to showcase any skill at a entry level, so i tend to overthink and create ideas that tend to be way out of my skill level.

I'm just curious if anyone in the industry, or similar mindset can i suppose lend a hand with their experience what was enough work on a portfolio, the quality especially, and how they moved from this mindset cause i think it isnt healthy.
I feel like its a fairly simple answer which could be just: stay committed to simple ideas, but it goes around back to me thinking it isnt good enough.

I suppose for context i aim to be in some role that makes mechanics, gameplay - i believe it was called Tech design.

[modern relic]

i dont think ive ever heard of a Tech Design position or department in the context of game development

gameplay mechanics are usually part of game design though, maybe thats what you are thinking of?

[grave snow]

hm, i was told that sort of role was referred to Tech Design
But i yes game design

[modern relic]

🤷

Post a link to your portfolio if you want feedback

[grave snow]

Thats mainly the point, i dont have work i believe is suitable as a portfolio and after wiping to restart my PC i'm generally starting from scratch.

[woeful iron]

why do you think it's not suitable?

if it represents your skill level than it is suitable

if you think it's not suitable to get a job, maybe your skill level is not suitable either

[brave forge]

Well that's a hurdle you have to overcome. A completed "basic" project is better than 100 incomplete ones

[grave snow]

It generally comes from the idea of competition and comparing, there will be a unknown number of other people at similar levels who likely have done better showcases applying since its a heavily desired role.

[woeful iron]

well you're not gonna rise above them by posting nothing

there's always someone better than you

that's just the truth

[brave forge]

This is definitely true. At all levels. Don't compete, just do. That already puts you in the better leagues

Just make stuff.

[grave snow]

Certainly, people will know more ins and out and have a better way of thinking about it to achieve better results.

I suppose at the end of it im more or less asking what could be classed as entry level portfolios - which i feel the answer is vague enough.

hm hm, well i suppose that is all i can do, make stuff till its finished.

[woeful iron]

make things that represent what you can do

that's all you need to worry about

[brave forge]

Even taking simplistic stuff all the way teaches you heaps of things. You learn about all the ways early decisions can back you into a corner in the later parts of a project. There is so much value in just competing things

Don't worry about making something flashier than the next person. As dieter said, do things that can represent your skillset

[grave snow]

Alright, well i feel like i have a bit more of a solid goal now, though to be blunt still unsteady on what could represent my skillset.
But, thank you for the time and advice i'll try to learn from it.

[brave forge]

Well we can't really give you much advice there, we don't know your skillset or level. It could be anything from make a 3d space invaders to making an inventory, to making a portal puzzle game. But lean towards ones that sound "easy" but finish it

[old verge]

I saw some post about freelancing. I'm tempted to give my two cents. It's rough. Freelancing as a game programmer is competitive as hell. Dealing an interviewer's personal bias kind sucks too, especially if you haven't worked in a while and are feeling kind of desperate.

5 star reviews and a portfolio might help but my time zone is working against me when it comes to US clients (where I'm from) as I'm stuck in Asia for another year waiting for my wife's green card. Just need to be dirt poor for a little while longer, as a software enginer... with experience and a degree. I wonder how common this is. lol

sounds like I'm having a bad day, eh? haha

[long onyx]

I need to know, what was there reaction?

[fading hatch]

It was a desperate sigh and a facepalm ^^ But it was not any real anger like I imagined, because I was so angry at myself already :x
I told them there are two ways to handle it. Either we cancel the project, or I'm going back to the march-backup and will add some free crunchtime to finish it before the deadline on June 6th. At least I could restore the project to that last state, not sure if I could finish the remaining tasks in time.
And ofc the second option was the better one for them... not for me, because I'm now crunching 24/7 x)

[long onyx]

I see, dont burn yourself out 🙂

[chilly sundial]

Are you using source control now

[long onyx]

I probably should use source control myself, I just copy my project every week and use a backup software with history

[atomic veldt]

I am trying to get a job as QA, I can code, but don't really have much experience with unit testing, although have experienced tools like Jira and some frameworks. What am I really missing? Do I have to learn all the tools they list on their job post before even applying?

[spice dagger]

I would look at it from the perspective of, the more of the requirements you meet, the higher your chances.

If you havent used JIRA for example and its a requirement, it may reduce your chances from 90% to 85%.

Obviously thats an example

So with that said, the more you know and can demonstrate proficiency simply increases your chances.

The less you tick their boxes, the lower. Its never going to be zero, but you also may not exceed other candidates.

[atomic veldt]

I guess that is not a bad perspective. Now I gotta see what Boxes I need to check to at least land an interview.

[vale igloo]

my experience with the job market as of late in the US is dismal

i may have to start applying for Unity jobs again.... 😦

every time i think i'm out, they pull me back in...

[plucky hatch]

I'm working in my first CTF map. I think I'm going to apply for multipel studios after I finish it

[plucky hatch]

Guys i wanna know your opinion on something

So, i just applied for a job and they had 2 options to apply, through their google form oe their email
So i applied woth google form and by the end i noticed they didn't jave any section for cover letter

So i was thinking of emailing them, explaining i already applied with the google form but in this email they can find my cover letter

My thought process was doing so could improve my chance of getting hired but at the same time it might look needy/desperate?

What do you guys think i should do?
Should i send an additional cover letter or just leave it be?

[brave forge]

Hmm I could go either way. One thing to consider is: Is your cover letter compelling? By that I mean, are you just attaching a cover letter because "that's the recommendation", or do you actually believe the contents of it adds to your application in substantial way?

If your cover letter is relatively light, generic or otherwise just checking a box, I probably wouldn't bother. Where as I would more likely send it through if I felt it substantially added to the strength of the application

[high cape]

Can you call yourself an "experienced programmer" if you never worked as a programmer but studied "applied mathematics" where about 25% of the time you worked with Java, C++, MySQL, MatLab and Mathematica and made a working UE game with about 20k lines of C++ code (without comments)?

[plucky hatch]

I genuinely feel the content of it could add more to it, tho I'm not confident with my writing skill so I'll definitely get some help to word it better

[steady pewter]

No. But then again, it is subjective. Listing the job requirements as posting your experience is where this is evaluated.

[brave forge]

As ryobg said, it's subjective. But I'd lean towards no as well. Not to sound like a gatekeeper, but for the same reason I wouldn't necessarily consider a recent grad of computer science an "experienced" programmer. I'd consider them educated, I'd consider them to have working skills,but experienced to me implies some level of real world work experience

[chilly sundial]

I also think writing 20k lines of code without comments isn't as good as you think it is :P

[brave forge]

Lol. But naa I think they just meant 20k not including comments in the count. Lots of tools count LOC with and without comments

[chilly sundial]

Yeah I figured. Just making a lil joke :P

Definitely make said project part of a portfolio. While it doesn't make you experienced, in the same way I'm not, it could be a really good piece to feature

[plucky hatch]

asked about how good my portfolio is in linkedin in multiple groups. No answer.

[sage ember]

Def not lol. If you mention the “20k lines” that’s instant red flag

[high cape]

@sage ember Why?

[sage ember]

because line count means absolutely nothing... 0 correlation to quality of code and design. in UE 90% of code is boilerplate copy pasted. a serious dev would probably auto reject you if you mentioned something like that

not to mention 20k lines is a paltry amount

[high cape]

@sage ember Yes, I understand it has nothing to do with the quality of the code.

[sage ember]

i'd consider "experienced" , at least 4 years of CS schooling and 2-4 years in professional field.
again ,counting lines is a pointless task... but 252 work days a year at a conservative 500 lines per day puts you well over 1 million lines

[high cape]

@sage ember What about mentioning features instead of lines? Online-high-scores and -rating (PHP + MySQL), account-creation, playing statistics in a SQLite database, playlist-creation (JSON)?

[sage ember]

sure... but at end of day you'll likely need to pass various leet code tests for any serious role. if you can't get through those then it doesn't matter what you say on resume