career-chat

[clear rampart]

Game Designer bros

Is there a section where we write the specifics for modeling bones, morphs, and etc.?

[round radish]

A section of what?

[steel creek]

Considering this isn't the game designer bro section maybe go look in the game designer Channel

[steady pewter]

Prolly is about documentation. Section in documentation.

Or is some weird recipe for homemade beer.

[shut token]

https://tenor.com/bnUmt.gif

[snow kiln]

HI, has anybody tried for some income creating environments with Unreal engine here?

Would like to know how worth it is to try

And in general what your experience there as an artist

[plucky hatch]

Hard to compete when such amazing packs are available for free (megascans) and low price (marketplace).

[snow kiln]

You’re my protagonist that turns out to be a good guy in the end lol

[snow kiln]

Anta*

[plucky hatch]

Otherwise I am a full time desiger using Unreal thats no problem at least, but I would struggle if I was just making props or environments, you really have to be churning out a lot of high quality stuff to make any good money.

[snow kiln]

Thanks for the answer

[woeful iron]

sounds like recipe for burn-out if you keep that going for a while

I mean you could do it before work, but doing it for 8 hours before going to work is wild

[opaque aurora]

Sounds like you get everything listed here after one week: https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep-deprivation/effects-on-body

[pure kettle]

Work on the game at night or weekends

Surely you won't be fired for not taking shower nor doing laundry for weeks?

[green oyster]

@plucky hatch I did wakeup at 4-5 AM and work for 2-3 hours then going to my day job, that's almost doable

[deep mural]

Anyone got tips for college? Realistically I'm probably gonna get a scholarship but I'm not sure how they work at all and idk what classes I should be taking (aiming to be unreal c++ dev) I'm 16 years old junior and planning to learn alot of c++ in ue5 before I even graduate from high school

[vagrant siren]

Good for you! Cool to see you taking your future serious in Game Development. Only tip I got is just keep an eye on your mental health w.r.t burn out/fatigue, make time for rest/non game dev activities and take regular breaks! Keep at it!

[deep mural]

Thanks man

I do have a job but that's about it when it comes to doing anything (other than playing games) because of no transport

30 min walk to work

[vagrant siren]

I used to cycle to home/school back in the day! I think that is a good thing too 🤣 , now I'm just fat and lazy. Dont be like me.

[deep mural]

Icic

[vagrant siren]

What classes are you planning on taking? ( or leaning towards, or curious about or interested in )

[deep mural]

I definitely want to take a c++ class but I don't really know anything about college because no one wants to talk about it (friends or family)

[vagrant siren]

Then you came to the right place. 😆

Here we like to talk about it.

[deep mural]

Glad I did then

Any classes you can think of that I might be interested in?

[vagrant siren]

I think c++ is great, do they offer anything specific in game development?

[deep mural]

Not sure what college I'm going to, but probably not

[vagrant siren]

Yeah, that is common.

[deep mural]

I looked up biggest college in my state (MSU) And they have no unreal course

[vagrant siren]

Let's hear from some of the other folks here. I will always say anything computer sciency is good, but that is just my opinion.

[deep mural]

Alright

I'm gonna go to sleep so if anyone responds please tag

[craggy nacelle]

I learned next to nothing studying for my IT degree... but I still would suggest most folks do at least some kinda degree on the off chance that it does have something useful in it, and also because most folks around that age group are not exactly great at self studying at least in my experience lol - this at least in a case where you have a free/mostly free education and won't end up in massive debt for it

[plucky hatch]

I feeling it's pointless to worry about which country, the living costs, etc for now. I don't even have one completed project to show apart from the feww ameaturish MP levels that I've done.

[plucky hatch]

Focus on your portfolio then, no point worrying about getting a job when you don't have the tools to get one anyway.

[trail hull]

tangential but I went to art school, and the teachers there continously stressed that unless you were moving to the US, the portfolio is ultimately what employers care about.

[plucky hatch]

that's the complete opposite of what I heard in college. Professors were trying to convince everyone of how important science is. It is but... the system burdens every student with exams, grades, .... very few were happy with studying all that science related stuff

[plucky hatch]

Learning a science it not the same as learning to make things in Unreal.

[deep mural]

Alright

[plucky hatch]

yes, science is different from the industry. I realised that I wouldn't finish the degree, then why even worry about grades and letters of recommendation for postgrad? so many news about ppl suffering meltdowns in the academia

[spare mantle]

btz i need an advice i want to make an fps game i saw lots of ppl use the 3rd person then move the camera I'm confused why ? should i do it like them or what ?

or use the fps template

[warm salmon]

One of the reason for doing that is you get the full default mannequin body with walking animations set up already, as in the FPS starter template, it only includes hands and shoulder.

[spare mantle]

ooooooh makes sense makes sense

btw i need to learn how to use blueprints becuz i want to like play with the HUD text block for like the health ya know

instead of progress bars like i see in tutorials

[warm salmon]

I think I can find something for you. Hold on

[spare mantle]

alright thanks man I'm just new to UE4 I've been using UPBGE for 3 years now and ppl said i should transfer to UE4, because I've been making a half life game

[warm salmon]

@spare mantle Try this, https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/how-do-i-link-text-to-a-healthbar/411983/3

[warm salmon]

Seems like you know how to use C++

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYVEHk_KurY&t=627s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KETWPR_7978

[warm salmon]

I believe these turorials can help you out.

[spare mantle]

no i use logic bricks just like blueprint

[spare mantle]

thank you soo much

[warm salmon]

In that case, follow the last tutorial.

[spare mantle]

UPBGE:
either you use Python or Logic Bricks

UE4:

i think you either use C++ or blueprint

[spare mantle]

alright thanks soo much

blueprint = logic bricks

but blueprint has more options and more complicated

[warm salmon]

It's basically a simplified version of Python.
It reduces 9-10lines of code into one Block.
It's quite challenging to learn as a beginner, but it'll get easier once you get the hang of it.

[spare mantle]

alright noted thanks for the help btw

[spare mantle]

is just me or does my wifi got slwoer when I'm using UE4 ?

[pure kettle]

Correction:

UE4: You use Blueprints AND C++

You can go full C++ in your UE project, but some things are actually better done in BP level

[spare mantle]

the answer is obviously BP, becuz I'm lazy af to write codes lol

[plucky hatch]

Thats just you

[spare mantle]

yep it's me your friendly neighborhood Gordon Freeman

[pure kettle]

Or Epic Games Launcher somehow stuck in login state, which can suck low speed connections

[spare mantle]

maybe

[plucky hatch]

Are you using source control?

[spare mantle]

nope I'm just in blueprint rn

i don't even know what source control is

so I'm just in blueprint playing around with it so i can know what to do

or get some exprience maybe

[wary idol]

@sinful charm Crossposting is against the #rules

[sinful charm]

ok, didn't know, sorry

[scenic moon]

Is asking about crypto in an interview a bad idea? I want a concrete answer, and would probably word it something along the lines of "Does the project I'll be working on, or any future projects I'll work on include crypto of any kind?" Not sure how to word that nicely without sounding like someone who is coming in hot with a hot opinion, or straight up saying "don't hire me if crypto." On the off chance the person interviewing me is a crypto buff but keeps it out of the workplace, but I deserve to know what I'm getting into

[round radish]

You could phrase it in the reverse, ask if there are any exciting potential crypto projects?

[pastel estuary]

could result in them actually not wanting to hire the person IF they dont like crypto themselves.

[modern relic]

Probably dumb question but what's wrong with working with crypto specifically? I'm not a crypto bro and I don't know anything about it.

[royal lintel]

A combination of: incredibly high energy usage for certain older chains (incl. bitcoin) and newer chains having other issues in exchange, the field being rife with scams not just due to it being new but due to its very nature (and a lot of misrepresentation of what's possible), very few people (if anyone) having a justification of why they should use blockchain (esp. NFTs) over more traditional tech that would generally be cheaper/faster/better, and numerous other reasons. There's a lot of existing writing on the topic.

[still nymph]

Not much. Just make sure you are getting paid fiat money like any other job and dont take part in scams.

[round radish]

True enough.

[lilac walrus]

I mean I would straight up say 'don't hire me if crypto', so it seems perfectly reasonable thing to ask in an interview because it prevents either party wasting the other's time

[steady pewter]

Yeah, be open for that. While I'm not into crypto too, I realise this is because the mass of scamming and plain-bad projects out there. However, there and ppl who work on serious projects.

[woeful iron]

severe minority though

[pastel estuary]

if people wanna work on that, go ahead.
But i've refused two crypto-game job offers so far.

[shrewd geyser]

I worked on one for a while and dropped out. But I have worked in other non game crypto projects before. Pro tip: always get paid in fiat or regular payments and in short intervals. Never get paid in full at the end.

[round radish]

Crypto-game just sounds suspicious right off the bat.

[chilly sundial]

Yeah... the whole crypto bro stuff i suspicious at best

[pastel estuary]

also, you'd be amazed by how many games got canceled because the investors are crypto-peeps.
points at current decline in profits

[craggy nacelle]

I wouldn't work on crypto unless they paid me very well... I'm not gonna pretend like there isn't a point where the money lets me overlook my thoughts on the topic lol

But it would have to be significantly more than I would get elsewhere so I'd say it's pretty unlikely even though I do have sought after experience

[zenith pivot]

Does anyone have any recommendations for online programs that use unreal? I take a bunch of udemy classes to learn as well but a full course load would be helpful too.

[pastel estuary]

learn.unrealegine.com has quite a few. but also, out of the scope of this channel. especially the #ue4-general channel has loads of tut-links in pinned messages.

[zenith pivot]

Ok thanks

[opaque storm]

Hello everybody

can someone please suggest me a legit roadmap of game development?

[shut token]

What do you mean?

Like - what you need in order to get hired or something?

[opaque storm]

how to start?

what would be a good first step to start

[runic grail]

Don't know where else to ask this, would Epic ever consider something like a partnership with a game developer in exchange for x% of the revenue? Like I know if you make over a million dollars on your game you owe epic 5% of the revenue from that point on but would there ever be the consideration to have Epic help fund a game in exchange for x% of the revenue before reaching a million or something of the like? In other words I'm interested in being funded to help the progress of my game, of which I'm now pursuing full time and is very similar to Paragon.

[craggy nacelle]

Megagrants is an option, but a revshare with Epic seems pretty unlikely unless you and/or your studio has a proven track record of shipping games that make sales over 1 mil

[shut token]

Downloading the engine of your choice and start tinkering with things. You can use courses to help get familiar with the tools. Recreate small games (like pacman or space invaders, etc...) and then just keep going from there.

[opaque storm]

thanks for the advice)

[rough knot]

guys im looking to join a uni for a masters in game dev/programming so i can learn some stuff in a social environment and also get some team working experience. Would anyone know of some of the good unis i can look at in canada preferably ?

[trail hull]

A masters? so you have some experience in game dev/programming specifically?

[rough knot]

i have a bachelors in comp sci so i have basic coding knowledge

[trail hull]

in that case, whats stopping you from finding some collaborators here and working from home?

It might be valuable to get some experience without spending a dime.

[rough knot]

i want to travel and try to get PR abroad so i feel i would do better starting in uni first and then slowly going towards the work side

[trail hull]

Makes sense. I don't know if theres a program that specifically focuses on unreal engine dev but there are more general game development/master of science programs focused on game programming but its usually about the more technical aspects.

[rough knot]

i dont mind adapting to different engines but i need to narrow down Unis that will give me a general knowledge on how to do the advanced programming for games and also team stuff

i tried researching but there are so many i got lost

[trail hull]

McGill in montreal (i think its in montreal lol) has a MSC program that looks decent, and its an english language university so no worries about learning french for your studies but living in montreal/gettign a job there would probably require learning french too ngl.

[rough knot]

aaah french

Learning so many languages right now i will learn french after C++ and C#

[trail hull]

vancouver probably has some options too tho

and doesn't require french

[rough knot]

ill look into vancouver iv seen many big game studios there

[trail hull]

but your best bet is probably around those major centres, since Ubisoft is in montreal and theres a big animation scene there and Vancouver is mostly where the film industry is*

[rough knot]

i see

film industry / game industry would that work

[trail hull]

sorry lol didn't mean to delete that bit of the message, was editing it

Vancouver has game studios too

as well

[rough knot]

i see

alright i will narrow down unis there first

[trail hull]

The prairie provinces just dont really have the population for these types of industries, but there is a smaller indie dev scene for sure, but not as many schools.

but Alberta does have a really top-notch art uni lol (AUArts)

[rough knot]

i see

would they teach programming as well ?

if its an art school

[trail hull]

They have this program stream called MADT (media and digital technologies) that does include some programming but its still very much in development, so its a mixed bag honestly.

You'd honestly be better off in Van or Montreal, theres just more opportunity, people, etc.

and theres more to do in those cities haha, but the cost of living can be ridiculous in vancouver

montreal is honestly decent for rent and the like.

[rough knot]

i see

thank you so much

i will look into both vanc and mont

[trail hull]

cheers! hope you enjoy canada if you do come here haha!

[rough knot]

yess im trying my best to get my foot in the door xD

[trail hull]

so fair, best of luck!!

[viral sandal]

Hello folks! If I wanted to get a job as a software engineer at a gaming company, do y'all do LeetCode-type questions like the FAANG companies?

[brave forge]

Depends on the company. Usually there's some sort of thing involved, but the better ones use that as a way of getting you to talk through a problem or advance the interview in some way, rather than just a test

[viral sandal]

Interesting okay! Do you have any suggestions of resources I can use to read up on the content that I should be prepared for? 🙂

[viral sandal]

For context, I'm a software engineer with roughly 4 YOE (I've worked across backend, UI, and most recently in the past year and a half on firmware). So, I have basic fundamentals of programming. Just unsure if the gaming industry has special topics that I haven't looked at yet!

[proud spear]

what type of programmer are you aiming for?

[woeful iron]

probably might want to catch up on vector math at least, that's one more "game specific" topic I can think about

and like game structures, like actors, components, subsystems... just the concepts behind them

if they go for more algorithmic question I would guess it would be more about optimization than implementation, but that depends on what kind of position you apply for

[formal burrow]

Seconded on the vector math part. If you studied up to Calc 3 and Calc based physics; you're Gucci.

If you are not past the point of Calc 1 or 2; I strongly recommend an online do at your own pace Calc 3 course.

[shut token]

I don't think you need much calculus to be a gameplay programmer to be honest. Trig & linear algebra and you're golden for a vast majority of things.

[plucky hatch]

I'm going to stop my wiki at vector calculus

beyond that and I think it begins to enter the realm of simulations

in my country there is one semester of numerical analysis, which is basically bits of algorithms to solve linear systems, integrals and derivatives

[pastel estuary]

@worldly violet be mighty fine if you read the #rules that way you'd known you are only allowed to post job-stuff in the job related channels, like #looking-for-work

[worldly violet]

Ok. Thanks

[pastel estuary]

also: #instructions

[steel creek]

I kind of like when people don't read.

It gives you a good indication of who not to actually go work for or hire

[craggy nacelle]

You have to keep in mind that if a user is new to some type of platform like Discord, they may not be aware of the implicit etiquette... although I forget how forceful the rules reading is on entry to this server, but on a lot of servers it isn't very.

[steel creek]

again, even more reason to lel. If you join something "new" and dont take the time to learn what you are doing before using it, why would I want to trust you with me, a "new" hire, or a "new" project. Due diligence is the standard (for me and most of the professional world). There are many other people doing things better *where you can invest time, rather than spend time trying to justify why someone cant spend 5 minutes to learn what they are using before asking for others.

[craggy nacelle]

I'm not quite sure how a user who has never used some type of platform before can learn the implicit unwritten etiquette on their own

[steel creek]

like I said, reading. The title of the channel is literally at the top.

or am I the only person who sees that?

[craggy nacelle]

There is no indication anywhere in the Discord UI which suggests you can click on it on PC, and it shows even less of it on mobile

[steel creek]

that isnt true

[craggy nacelle]

It's not exactly intuitive that you need to even look up there for some kind of message like this for a new user

[steel creek]

if you click the channel it shows the people and title on the sidebar (on mobile)

you keep saying "new user" as if the internet and apps dont exist

click around and learn the app, first.

[craggy nacelle]

On my iPhone all I see is the list of messages with the words #career-chat on top with no indication you can click somewhere to find out something about it

[steel creek]

so instead of looking around, you figure, no title, must be the place to dump.

[craggy nacelle]

Well I hope you don't have to deal a lot with less technical users at your work lol

[steel creek]

less technical is not the same thing. You can be less technical like my girl friend sitting over there. Spending 5 minutes to learn the thing in your hand doesnt equate the same.

[craggy nacelle]

If you say so

[steel creek]

lol. Well, I say so for me, for sure, and most of the studios I work at, expect the same consideration. If you spend the time and then are lost, sure. If you dont spend any, and think its just because you "dont understand the app/system/thing" yet -- seems weird that is somehow a free pass on being lazy.

[craggy nacelle]

Well that's the distinction between developer/expert ecosystems and ecosystems for the average random person

Places like this which belong to the expert side expect you to put in some level of effort and don't really hold your hand so much if you mess up

[steel creek]

true, but that person came in here looking for hires?

[craggy nacelle]

Correct, and people who work more on the HR side of things don't necessarily have the same style of using tools as the ones who work on the technical side, and as such they end up violating the etiquette that the other users expect

[steel creek]

the irony of HR violating etiquette standards

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah the problem is that folks who aren't regularly hanging out in places like this will not be aware they even exist

[steel creek]

is this server not using the "new" mechanism of doing a "read these rules/announcements" before being allowed to post? I have seen that rolled out last year pretty much everytime I join a new server now.

[craggy nacelle]

Ie. you join Slack at your job you generally aren't expected to go and read some rules on what to do and what not to do

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah I have no idea, hence why I mentioned I'm not sure how strongly it suggests you to read them lol

[steel creek]

oh, I got an entire slack itself about rules at a certain studio. Had a full day of "here are the rules" 😄

[craggy nacelle]

It would be a bit harder to understand a user who hasn't bothered reading them if it does indeed gate you from access until you accept the rules

[steel creek]

yeah, the new gates are typically you click accept and are given a cooldown of 5/10 minutes before posting, etc...

https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500000466882-Rules-Screening-FAQ

this thing 😄

[gusty vault]

How am I supposed to team up with someone to make a game for portfolio?

I can't land a coder to successfully make 1 full game, as small as it is...

[brave forge]

What's your target job? Do you actually need a game for your portfolio? If you are a character artist can you just make a bunch of characters? If you are an environmental artist can you make a bunch of environments? There's usually a way to build a portfolio without needing a whole game or team.

[gusty vault]

Well, I'm looking for general 3D art

I've figured how to do the whole process for making 3D assets

I still lack a "brand" so to speak

Like, something I can assure is my speciality

[brave forge]

There's probably a way to do that without a team. Make a themed asset pack, release that and you have both a stream of income and something for your portfolio

[gusty vault]

Idk the process to get that into the market...

Also, I'm from argentina

So on top of the store's cut I have obscene taxes...

[brave forge]

I don't know if that's good logic. You have to earn money to pay tax, so it's still a net positive. The process of releasing anything is always cloudy the first time you do it.

Anyway, if that's how you view it, then just a themed collection of assets on artststion and twitter. That's useful for a portfolio

What I'm getting at is, while a team and a released game is great, I wouldn't consider that a blocker. There's plenty of ways to build out a portfolio as a 3d generalist. Scroll through artststion for some ideas. Don't feel you have to compete with the upper tier, just get some idea

A released asset pack people can contribute some of the benefit of a released game, as it can indicate you've taken a collection of work through to "completion", properly curated in a releasable state

[brave forge]

I don't mean to sound rude, but there's a hint of a view that "well I don't have X, so I can't do y. Or this <insert other excuse>". A good portion of a portfolio is not just to demonstrate quality, but that you can take stuff through to completion

[gusty vault]

I don't mean to offend you but I really think you don't know a thing of how messed up Argentina is

[brave forge]

You are right. I can't speak to that. My point is though that having anything is better than nothing, and it sounds a bit like you are in something called "analysis paralysis". You can't make up your mind what to do, so you end up not doing anything

[gusty vault]

I guess that's fair, yea

[brave forge]

It's fairly common. My point is to look at what you DO have, and get something done.

[dark vigil]

Guys I would like to ask something. So I'm a student and I wanna help my family by earning money. But I just got into game dev and dont really know how I can make money since game Dev will take time. What is some skills I could learn to help me in my game Dev and in earning money.

Btw 1st year Uni student, so what would be the best course of action

[deep mural]

What would you do if your target job is c++ ue5 programming

[brave forge]

The opposite, make a game or plugin with freely available assets. The point remains the same, if your portfolio is designed to show off completed projects, you should produce something, anything, that can demonstrate that. If you are struggling to find a team then work with what you have, free assets, to produce something

[deep mural]

Thanks for the advice

[slender panther]

Hello does anyone have experience with CG spectrum? And how are much do theri programs cost?

[viscid anvil]

who knows idk

!

[shrewd geyser]

Bro, the pricing is literately in their website... https://www.cgspectrum.com/courses/game-programming-course#study-options

[vagrant bramble]

:warning: Failed to send a DM. User will not be notified.

:triangular_flag_on_post: LEX#1884 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

[radiant tundra]

How much would a storyboard artist earn monthly in Canada.

??

[woeful iron]

at least 4 CAD

[radiant tundra]

4k?

[boreal osprey]

How much is considered as a good salary for a Junior Environment Artist (somewhere in the eu)?

[woeful iron]

at least 4 euros

salary depends on so many factors

look on sites like glassdoor that specialise in these kinds of things

[boreal osprey]

4k euros/month is the minimum you'd say is good?

[woeful iron]

bruh

where did I put a k in that sentence

it was just sarcastic

since it depends on so much

somewhere in EU is also very broad

[compact light]

hey guys, good morning!
Does anyone know a website I could get some references on what's a good game programmer resume/cv example?

[woeful iron]

pay in Germany is gonna be very different than pay in hungary for example

[tall fiber]

I have been a web developer for over 10 years and have been able to pickup Unreal Engine and C++ faster than staring out new. Built a game demo with Behavior Trees and game logic with C++ and HUD stuff in Blueprints. I know its hard to get into the business. With my understanding of software development and having a decent demo would a AAA studio be interested in giving someone like me a shot? Are there other people out there like me that has made the transition like I'm trying to do.

[plucky hatch]

I'm not sure if this is the right channel. But I'm watching speeches from a famous volleyball coach and many principles in sports about winning gold medals can be applied in life, or game dev.

[woeful iron]

There's definitely a chance to get into it. You probably want more than 1 demo though. Work on a simpler game maybe and "finish" it. If you're picking up c++ that fast, I think it probably still has a ton of secrets waiting for you 😄. Also, be prepared to take a pay cut, game dev pays less in general, and 10 years as web dev will not be considered as 10 years of game dev experience 1 to 1, so your position will probably be lower than what you have now.
But you definitely want more than 1 demo project on your portfolio.

imo at least

[shrewd geyser]

Absolutely man! Real competitive sport experience teaches you so much! Team and individual....

[plucky hatch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyeKiT8g4g I have to make some sacrifices to get into the industry and some of them are not comfortable

[native jay]

Search it up

[plucky hatch]

Thats really not possible to say, there are 44 countries in Europe and you range from high hundreds of Euros a month to thousands, you need to narrow it down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

[woeful iron]

average of everything is misleading though

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, just expaining in basic terms @woeful iron that its very vert different, they are also adjusted by living costs.

[boreal osprey]

Tbh i'll move if needed for a great income so the only other factor that matters is how expensive living is at the area.

[plucky hatch]

Many people, especially in the US are not aware,

[plucky hatch]

Are you an EU citizen?

[boreal osprey]

Yes

[plucky hatch]

Capital cities are usually have the highest rates, especially those that have high clusters of studios.

[boreal osprey]

Sorry but rates of what?

[plucky hatch]

Rates of pay €

[boreal osprey]

But the living is more costly too

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, thats why I sent you that link above

Net average monthly salary (adjusted for living costs in PPP)

[woeful iron]

if you're that driven by money, you probably don't want to work in games

[plucky hatch]

All depends on what you want to do and who you want to work for. Would it be cheaper for me to go and live in another country than where I am currently, yes! Would I still be able to have the same job in those countries anyway...no.

[boreal osprey]

Since the studios i'd love to work for are not (and probably will not) looking for Juniors, i need another motive.

[plucky hatch]

All studios have juniors

[boreal osprey]

Then they are full on the positions

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, but spaces come up as people leave and progress

As an artist your motivation should be that you enjoy it and want to better yourself as a designer, the employment always follows great work.

Concentrate on your portfolio while waiting for an open positiion

[boreal osprey]

I enjoy every second of creating art, but since i know i'll need to learn more and more and more as a Junior, i'm not going to be that picky with a workplace. Also i can adapt very well, so i don't even care about many of the factors when it comes to a studio. And also, i can create the art i love the most in my free time and do my personal projects, so i don't see the point of only being interested a part of only a couple games team. I just want to get into the industry and start working my way up and learn new things. I hope it makes more sense now 😅

[woeful iron]

hope you can keep that spirit alive to make personal art

if you've been making art at work for 8 hours, it's hard to find motivation to continue the same once you get home

[boreal osprey]

As long as i can think of fun projects, i'll sure do. I'm also interested in other 3d art related fields that i'll not do as work such as weapons or characters or technical art so i can "entertain" myself with learning at least the basics of those things as well.

[plucky hatch]

It makes sense, but looking at your portoflio I would say you have some time to go before you can apply to be a junior in this competitive market. Why not do some more hobby pieces? At least 4 pieces should suffice, single objects such as the lamp look like they may just be form a portfolio and are not very desired.

If you are making models, show your topology, maps and explain in detail as much as possible what you have done and why, show reference and mood boards.

[boreal osprey]

I absolutely agree with you and i'm currently working on a new scene with different setting and planning on adding a much more detailed prop after the scene is done. I'm not sure how important it is, but i'm trying to learn as many skills and softwares as possible compared to the average junior in my field as well.

Also, i don't know how much experience you have with Environment art, but i can also share more details of my plans with my portfolio if you'd be that kind to tell me your opinion about it.

[plucky hatch]

I would just wait until you have updated your portfolio then submit it for review.

[supple swallow]

just dm

[scenic moon]

is it bad practice or frowned upon to include a tracking image in your applications where able? (just a ping to see if someone opened it)

[brave forge]

Analytics (like what you are talking about) are pretty common, but just like with a website you need to notify the user of data collection

[shrewd geyser]

As long as you are not really collecting any personal data (of any type) you are fine

[scenic moon]

It's just for tracking if someone opened the message, just don't know if anyone has heard of any negatives because of that. I can see emails being auto ignored because of included analytics

[royal lintel]

What you're describing is the exact reason many mail clients don't show images from unknown senders by default.

[scenic moon]

Exactly, but the standard tracking image is a invisible 1x1 pixel image. That is all that would be included. Not showing images would just block the tracking, but the email/resume could still be read. I would think that most would just have the not show images enabled, but maybe there is a standard of blocking those emails by default that I'm not aware of

[brave forge]

Ohh application as in job application? Yeah.... I dunno about that. If I received that and noticed it, I wouldn't be happy. Also the larger the org the more likely it'll be auto ingested into their job system and it'll never trigger that tracker anyway

[woeful iron]

tbh what's the point if knowing they opened your application

you'll just be disappointed if you know they opened it and don't reply

and you'll also be disappointed if you know for a fact they didn't open it at all

so you don't really gain anything from it

[plucky hatch]

Yes exactly, and to add to that, knowing if it's opened and knowing if it's opened by a relevant person are two different things. It could be opened by a random person at HR or an intern, rather than say a department head or hiring manager @scenic moon so I agree with Dieter I can't see what useful information is would warrant aside form just general curiosity.
I know myself any many others would be pretty annoyed if it was flagged however. I would certainly dismiss the application.

[limpid basalt]

Yes! Although the transition took a while, picked up Unreal 7 years ago. I sent you a DM. I was doing working on C# 10-15 years ago and now it's all Unreal & fullstack dev.

[waxen estuary]

Hello everyone! I'm building a studio and I wanted to ask some veteran unreal devs (bonus points for brazilians) some questions regarding their job and hiring. If you have any interest, please send me a DM!

[shrewd geyser]

Don’t know about the veteran part, but I am Brazilian. Feel free to DM!

[waxen estuary]

Hello again! Still looking for veterans; if you have some time for some questions, please please send me a DM!

[fierce turtle]

Hello, so ive always done coding for fun and just making my own little projects but now that I feel experienced how can I get an audience for a game that I want to release. I want people that are willing to be there to play test and get a fan base going so that at the launch there will be people. If anyone could give me any tips that would be great.

[chilly sundial]

What Laura said. Why not post the questions here so people can chime in.

[waxen estuary]

first, it was considered

second, because these are very personal questions

it makes no sense to ask personal questions in a community / channel manner

[chilly sundial]

Just saying you will get more answers. If the questions are too personal it doesn't matter where you ask them to be fair

[waxen estuary]

I don't want more bad quality answers or community based ones; if I'm looking for individuals, then I'd rather have less answers and more quality

[chilly sundial]

But my point is, you don't know the quality of answers you will receive here. So why not ask anyway

[serene crystal]

Sounds like you want a consultant

[plucky hatch]

Probably not going to find people at the level of Veteran (above Senior) who are going to seek you out on DM, as others have said better to just ask your question. Maybe just edit them so they are not so personal.

[craggy nacelle]

When random people insist they should be DM'd, the result is usually this: You DM them, they ask you a bunch of complicated questions, you answer. Then they will keep coming back to ask you more questions. Of course you get nothing out of being the person's personal free help line.

It sounds cynical but after doing software for 20 years and being online helping random people with their questions for 20 years as well I think I have a fair amount of experience in this lol

[waxen estuary]

I guess it makes sense? I'm not used to this community; on the communities I am, there's usually people smart enough to not ask questionnaires on DMs, and be as simple/quick as possible

so to not take others personal time too much

then again, it is a very big community

thank you @craggy nacelle for your response

[craggy nacelle]

Not intended to discourage you by the way - just wanted to offer it as explanation to why most folks will prefer not DM'ing and would be more likely to help if they don't need to DM :)

[steel bolt]

Hey everyone, i am a new game designer looking for people interested in working on a project with me. It is an extensive RPG game, with an in your face sortof combat system. I am mainly looking for 3d designer's at the moment to help with character modeling and such. This isn't a job, this is a project to work on. I am hoping to maybe assemble a small team(experienced or learning).that can carry on past this project, and is excited to bring the best we can to people. If your experienced and want to contribute, that would be super awesome, but i understand not many people want to work with newbie's, and i get that. that can carry on past this project, and is excited to bring the best we can to people.

[toxic sable]

You are looking for the job post channels or the game jam chats

[lilac walrus]

job channels

[steel bolt]

TY

[shrewd geyser]

My experience, also after 20 years, is that most times you get dm’ed, you help, for free, and in most cases won’t get even a thank you back. I don’t know when, but at some point in time people in tech started to think that others are obligated to give their time and help for free.

[steady pewter]

My salt is that many capriciously avoid putting enough personal effort, before asking for a help.

[fierce turtle]

Hello, so ive always done coding for fun and just making my own little projects but now that I feel experienced how can I get an audience for a game that I want to release. I want people that are willing to be there to play test and get a fan base going so that at the launch there will be people. If anyone could give me any tips that would be great.

[thin moss]

Make a Twitter and YouTube, make teaser trailers make a discord, give tasks for giveaways stuff like that

[fierce turtle]

Is tiktok also a good platform that could get it out?

Or instagram

[craggy nacelle]

You need to consider where your prospective audience is

And how you can reach them

For example if you're making a hardcore flight simulator tiktok is probably not the best platform to reach players into those kindsa games

[fierce turtle]

What about a realistic first person shooter. Would that be a good audience

[craggy nacelle]

I wouldn't know tbh, all I know is tiktok has weird videos on it lol

if you can find people sharing content similar to what you would make to promote your game, then perhaps an audience for it exists

(other than the creators of that content, there's always creators sharing their stuff but if nobody is interacting with that content that could be a poor sign)

[fierce turtle]

Alright TY

[thin moss]

yea as much as i don't like communist china , everyone is on tiktok nowadays ads on it definitely move the market by millions of dollars

[limber rose]

I've recently had a couple jobs in the past year or so and I've been struggling with time management, I write great code but I find as though it takes me a really long time

would anyone have any advice as to how I can improve my time management when it comes to programming?

I had to do a technical test today and it kinda opened my eyes, they said it should take about 4 hours but so far I've spent more than 10 on it and I'm only about 70% done

[brave forge]

Out of curiosity, can you give a rough idea of what the test involved? Getting another opinion on the time such a test would take wouldn't be a bad idea. There's lots of bad hiring practices around, so it's entirely possible 4 hours isn't right

Assuming the 4 hours was accurate, Do you feel you are just working too slowly, or do you feel you are too scattered in your approach? Generally what works for me is having a more clear approach to tackling the work. Spend some time outlining what steps you'll take in what order. Maybe some top level psuedo code for the main function or 2, and then fill out the various functions in a more ordered manner. If you feel you are working a little too scattered, work on reducing distractions. Find music without lyrics that can just help you get in the flow, turn off notifications on everything, find an extension for your browser to block Reddit etc. There's a few apps that block sites and apps for time periods, using something called the Pomodoro technique. It doesn't work for everyone, but the people it does work for swear by the method. Apart from that, I'd say it's just a matter of practice then.

It's worth while keeping track of stats for your own benefit. Make estimates before starting, and then review them afterwards to see how off they were, and importantly, why. Estimates are hard to get right, but it's a worthwhile thing to practice.

[limber rose]

I basically have to make a system where the user clicks a button and it spawns an AI with two behaviors: one of them being chasing the player if it sees them, as well as them wandering around if they can't see it, along with a widget keeping track of how many enemies have been spawned, as well as a game over screen with a retry button as soon as the player gets touched by an enemy

it didn't feel like 4 hours, it felt like a couple days, i got the physics interaction done where it prompts the user to click a button upon hovering over it, as well as me spending nearly an entire day on just these 2 AI systems alone, I don't have a lot of AI experience to be fair but it shouldn't take that long

[limber rose]

I personally feel like I'm just working too slowly. When I have a deadline typically I spread my tasks out in my head pretty evenly

and I can get stuff done pretty well, but it just takes me too long idk

[shut token]

Yeah - that shouldn't take 10+ hours.

4 hours does seem reasonable. The AI itself should take about 10-20 minutes to be honest.

It sounds like you need more practice.

[limber rose]

I don't have a lot of experience with the AI system so it was something that I had to kinda re-teach myself

ye idk what it is 😦 I can get stuff done but I'm just slow

it's what ended up with me losing my last opportunity, while my knowledge improves my ability just hasn't, regardless of complexity I always feel like I'm just as slow

I finished a course but a course can only get me so far if I don't put into practice what that course teaches me

[brave forge]

Are you constantly searching for info, solutions or tutorials or something along those lines? Is that slowing you down? Or are you getting distracted? Or you keep moving, just slowly?

[limber rose]

I'm always looking up resources and googling stuff, but generally also writing code the way I need to, for example, it took me about 2 hours to get the basic individual AI behaviors done, but then it took me another 3 to figure out how to get them to properly switch

neither of which were copied, I wrote both behaviors myself

[craggy nacelle]

Who says it shouldn't?

I think it's pretty normal that just watching/listening/reading some course/material won't really teach you anything in practice. You'll get the information you need but in order to apply it you need to actually try to apply it

[brave forge]

Tbh that just sounds like you need some more practice with those systems. Just keep at it. Learning the ai behaviours system can take a bit of time, the next time you do, it'll probably take you an hour, then it'll take you 20 mins

[craggy nacelle]

Sure, but it's always a bit different from having to actually apply it to a project

[limber rose]

ye fair

[craggy nacelle]

This is common for beginners so I wouldn't worry about it. Once you have more experience in general, applying learnings to your projects becomes much easier

[limber rose]

I don't know though, honestly, since I'm always gonna be asked to do new things with new systems

[craggy nacelle]

Sure, but your background knowledge is wider with more experience

[limber rose]

when the employer tells me it should take 4 hours and I take more than triple, it's an immediate red flag to me that this probably won't be the right fit for me

[craggy nacelle]

So even if it's a new system, you'll see parallels to existing systems you know, and that makes learning the new one easier

[pastel estuary]

generally when a timeframe is suggested, double or tripple that XD

[craggy nacelle]

^

people are shit at estimating and off the cuff comments from employers in particular are aimed at spending as little money as possible and have little bearing to real time figures

[pastel estuary]

and in such cases if the employer themselves can do it in four hours, why... did they not do it themselves

[brave forge]

While true, a larger base set of knowledge accelerates learning new stuff. And also you'll probably somewhat specialise, so you might not touch the inbuilt ai system much. I've touched it twice in ~7 years of using ue4, and I never did AI in ~7 years of ue3

[limber rose]

I don't doubt that I can do it, but it's something that's been a problem even outside of Unreal Engine, like yeah of course I'll get better but my pace has never really improved, I don't know if it's lack of experience or just the way I personally do work

my last job, my boss told me to make a big UI system, it should have taken a week at most, took me almost 3 weeks

it's how I ended up losing that job lol

[brave forge]

Unreal is a very large subject, so there will always be things to learn, for every one, even the most senior person.

[limber rose]

I could also trace it to the fact that I had next to no experience with Unreal entering that job but I also didn't have a lot of guidance, the work culture was very much "here's a system, finish it in your own time" and they were extremely lenient with me

[limber rose]

yep, there's always an infinite amount to learn

[shut token]

It just comes down to experience honestly. Just keep doing gamejam size games. You'll get to a point where you can implement stuff fast.

[limber rose]

but I think it speaks just to my personal issue, that, regardless of how much knowledge or practice I have on something, time has always been my biggest weakness 😦

[limber rose]

yup, been doing a game jam once every couple of months

[brave forge]

I think duroxxigar is right. You just need to keep pumping stuff out until your base skillset is a bit more rounded

[limber rose]

yup, thanks, I always say its just experience but I honestly dunno, maybe I also need to change the way I approach my work

[brave forge]

How long have you been working with unreal?

[limber rose]

started in september of last year so almost a year, but technically hadn't worked with it much between september - december, picked it back up in january, started a job in march of this past year, ended in june, and been making unreal games ever since, i only got serious with unreal starting my job back in march

[brave forge]

You aren't slow, you are still learning. Don't stress. Keep at it.

[limber rose]

yup, thanks 😦 idk I think I might need to change my approach to some level if things are taking me this long

[brave forge]

Jumping between ui, ai, and everything else is a LOT to get up to speed on

[craggy nacelle]

I picked up unreal to a decent level of productivity in a month or two but I have like 20 years of prior experience in programming :P

I don't even know how fucking long it would have taken me without that lol

but yeah honestly worrying about how long it's taking isn't gonna do you any good

you either know how to do something, or you don't... if you don't, you figure it out

I don't think there's much else really to it

[limber rose]

like today, I got a few tasks left for this test and that's it, its mainly when I click a button, an enemy spawns in a random position (which should take me 2-4 hours most) then game over (which should take less than 1 hour) and then the widget on screen at all times updating how many enemies have been spawned in (which shouldn't even take more than 2 hours lmao)

but knowing me I'll probably get this done in like another 8-10 hours

[craggy nacelle]

Why are you so concerned on how long it's going to take?

[limber rose]

ye you're right

[shut token]

Well - that's just due to lack of experience. Especially if you haven't really done it before.

[limber rose]

typically I'm not that concerned with how long something's taken, it's just been a constant weak point of mine, even in engines that I am more familiar with, such as Unity, and I'm just wondering if maybe it's just the way I'm approaching work

I always use the excuse "oh well I'll learn and I'll get better" but it never really has, and it's kinda frustrating lmao

idk

[craggy nacelle]

How are you approaching work then?

[limber rose]

I look at a task, break things down into smaller subtasks, typically if I have a few days, like with this test, I always imagine myself taking a few days to really learn the system, a couple days ago I knew I'd get the physics interactions done, which I did, yesterday I thought I'd get the AI done either by the middle of the day or the end of the day, ended up getting it done by the end of the day, and today I don't doubt that I'll get the remaining stuff done, since I got the bigger systems out of the way

[craggy nacelle]

That seems like an entirely reasonable approach, I'm not quite sure how you could change it for it to be any better

[limber rose]

i shouldn't worry though, you're right, it's just wasting more time lmao

typically i don't vent my stuff on discord, i was just wondering if anyone ran into these similar issues and maybe had any insight, but naw, it's just me lol, i just gotta keep at it and not worry about how long things are taking me

since if I don't worry about that I'll get stuff done faster lol

[craggy nacelle]

I've noticed that some beginners have similar concerns as yours, but to me it seems to mostly stem from insecurity on their own skills or some level of imposter syndrome

[limber rose]

naw I have good skills, i can literally do anything, it's just time, I don't care how long something takes me, but an employer certainly does, especially if it's a small company investing their time and money into me lmao

it's moreso insecurity about time that I typically don't talk about

I feel super insecure about how long something takes me but I try not to bring it up to employers, but it's really been something I've noticed over the past few months

[craggy nacelle]

I always just quoted whatever felt appropriate to me for how long something will take and usually nobody had any objections to it lol

[limber rose]

mm maybe

[craggy nacelle]

Sometimes it took longer because I estimated it incorrectly and usually that was fine too

[limber rose]

typically when I have a deadline I do a good job breaking down tasks and how long something should take

my last job I had no deadlines, nor did I have anyone really holding my hand or helping me, so maybe it was just not the right fit idk

especially since at that point I had little to no experience with Unreal

but yeah I should get back to working on this thing lol

thanks for the chat 😄 sorry for this rant lol

[brave forge]

As I suggested in my first block of ideas, start practicing your estimations

Make estimates before beginning, record how long it actually takes, then look at why they differ

It will help you find weak points, as well as get better at making realistic estimates

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah that's a good idea. Something I usually do when giving estimates these days is I give a range, like 1-2 days, 1-2 weeks, etc.

usually I'll give the end of the range as the worst case scenario

[white geyser]

Hey guys, I'm a relatively experienced software developer, and also a hobbyist unity developer. I'd now like to learn unreal, but one issue I have is that while tutorials are alright, they're generally very... high-level - they don't explain why something was done the way it was, as opposed to the million other options it could have been done. I like to understand things in depth, not just get stuff working - I want to fool around with a certain topic in general, not just get some particular thing working. I can google what each of the options does, the alternatives etc... but that seems like a pretty slow method, mainly due to the Unreal documentation being quite poor.

Are there perhaps any detailed unreal courses? Recommendations for sites with good articles that explain topics in depth, etc. would be ideal (I prefer written text over videos).

Alternatively, I suppose I might just have to gradually make a list of questions and pay an experienced developer to help me answer them or something like that.

Essentially I would like some sort of beginner unreal course, for a non-beginner developer.

[white geyser]

Hmm seems I'm not the only one who has searched for this... the recommendations seem to be to stick with analyzing the official samples, and also look at official tutorials. So I guess that's what I'll do.

Still, please let me know if you know of any other good sources.

[limber rose]

https://www.tomlooman.com/

while I wouldn't really call this a "beginner" course it walks you through all the ropes of Unreal

I finished it and it teached me a lot

[modern crown]

Gamedev.tv also have some really good courses to get you on your feet

[shut token]

👆 @mystic cloud Gamedev.tv alert 🚨 🚨

[mystic cloud]

Whenever I get pinged I know something is wrong now

[mystic cloud]

#ue5-general message

[white geyser]

That sounds pretty suitable for me, thanks, I'll look into it.

[limber rose]

it's 100% worth what I paid for it personally, but it just depends on your learning style as well

[chilly sundial]

or if you want free alternatives you can always use learn.unrealengine.com. It's not text based, and is very video based, but are very good for teaching information, and have pathways for pretty much any avenue of the engine, best of all it's official, so you know you can trust the info

[shrewd geyser]

Yeah learn.unrealengine.com is incredibly underrated. Half the beginner questions I see it in here would be answered if people had taken the time and went through the content.

[autumn socket]

Hey, how to learn Build & release engineering related stuffs and where can I offer help to people for the same?

[brave forge]

#automation and #packaging are generally pretty helpful. The pinned messages should have some places to learn too

[wild shore]

how to know which role i suits best

[woeful iron]

try a bit of everything and see what you like?

I guess you're still young?

what are you considering?

[brave forge]

What do you enjoy, or think you will enjoy the most? That's probably the better guiding question. The more you enjoy it, the more you'll practice it, and the better you'll get at it

[wild shore]

ahhh i cant say im young

im 28 years old

for me i had lots and lots of interest in making environment and fx simulations

fx simulations is what im still learning

well i have been 3d faculty for 3+ years

[woeful iron]

well, depends on what you like

if you like environments you can become environment artist

[wild shore]

i know each and every department iin a better way

[woeful iron]

you could just go on linkedin and find some 3d artist jobs, see what they require and see what role matches with what you like

[wild shore]

i have heard environment artist will pay less than any other department

is that true?

[woeful iron]

I have no idea, I'm not an artist

you can look on sites like glassdoor I guess

but I doubt it

I think there's not that much variance in artist specialities

[wild shore]

i have been a geme developer

when unity 5 started and ue3 is there

things are difficult those days and i had shifted my profile from dev to artist

and that too as a faculty

can someone guide me how to enchance my income source and best job in life

[woeful iron]

well if you have no experience as artist yet, it would make sense that you make less money than you do as developer

[wild shore]

oh developers get more money than artists?

i left my development practice may be i can say 5 yearss ago

is that a good way to get this coding skill into my brain

[woeful iron]

I mean you make it sound like you have experience as developer

someone with 5 years of development makes more money as developer than an artist with 0 years of art experience

but in general also developers do make more money

[woeful iron]

what does this mean?

[white geyser]

Yeah I mentioned that in my original post actually, the official tutorials seemed great to me, but thanks for verifying that. The samples seem quite extensive so looking at them might be great too. Only issue with samples might be they could be bloated due to various platforms/VR support, but besides that they seem pretty great - extensive, likely they use proper/best practices etc.

[strong shale]

Hi guys, I have a question to ask. When a company makes a game or a solo developer, and later they go for investors or a competition to win the prize, mostly people may does not understand game market very well. But they have questions like what problems are you addressing, solve what and for whom, in 1 liner speech also why people will play your game. Anyone would like to share some thoughts and suggestions to handle such question.

[woeful iron]

well answer them

why do you think people would play your game?

what's the unique selling point

[shut token]

"I'm not EA". Please give me money.

[steel creek]

I think you need to clarify. "Im not EA" could now mean early access which is almost as egregious as the actual company EA

[frail marsh]

Hi guys, I have a simple question, if you can answer I would appreciate it.
While making a Puzzle based horror game whose story and general concept / art design have been decided,
Is it more efficient to make a game design document first?
Or is it the first opening scene of the game and the 15-minute flow or planning?

[shrewd geyser]

I always say… If you spend enough time on designing and planning, coding is easy.

Obviously you cannot over do it.

[frail marsh]

So in general terms, first to determine the first sequence 15 mins of the game, the map design and to talk about the credits in the first place?
Or is it better to talk about general game design (like mechanics - features - puzzle structure etc . ) first

Because in my full-time job, people come up with ideas, they think about a 15-minute sequence from it, and then they say we'll do the game design document. However, it is much more logical for me to determine everything and then continue in that structure.

[modern relic]

Every place you work will be different. A 15 minute vertical slice at a time sounds like a decent idea actually. It makes it so that any ideas that come through can't be half baked and that the implementation of the idea has goals and requirements. It's not just "he wouldn't it be cool if xyz? Ye sure how would it work with our produce? 🤷" trying to figure out everything in advance isn't practical for a lot of people, teams and products. If your game has had extensive preproduction this would probably work out quite well though

[craggy nacelle]

This is one of my challenges with my project tbh. Like I have a vague idea of what I want it to be about, but all of the design is otherwise entirely adhoc lol

[shut token]

"Wouldn't it be cool if a game did this?"
implements it
"Yeah - that is cool"
"Shit - now I need to make the rest of the game"

[modern relic]

@craggy nacelle @shut token I didn't know we were coworkers

[craggy nacelle]

lol

[modern relic]

Imagine the potential for our games. Cutting edge features with no gameplay, no direction, just winging it

[shut token]

https://tenor.com/ZP8Y.gif

[hardy dagger]

First I would try it myself but my computer is not strong enough I need a new powerful computer to run it Unreal Engine and my name is Dennis I'm a fan of Legend of Zelda and I am creating a fan film Saga with Unreal Engine and I'm looking for some great people to help me out because I've been trying so hard to find people with Unreal Engine talent to help please I would like your help

I was told that you guys can help

[chilly sundial]

#instructions
Sounds like you want to post to the job board

[hardy dagger]

I do and I tried a long time ago I think

But this is for free

Which one does several job boards

I have tried to talk to the man in charge of those but I haven't got anything back

This is him right or her

@chilly sundial

[chilly sundial]

thats also a bot

read #instructions

it explains what you need to do to post to #volunteer-projects

although i will warn you that you are unlikely to get the team needed to make a fan film saga

that is a very tall ask

shoot for it by all means, but temper your expectations

[hardy dagger]

Ok

[chilly sundial]

@hardy dagger

oop

same time lol

[hardy dagger]

Ok

I don't see a way I can post in there it looks like it is blocked

@chilly sundial

[chilly sundial]

read #instructions

it tells you what to do

[hardy dagger]

ID - 1006198753268617327 I think this is how I do it

I read it and it said to contact the person that I already contacted@chilly sundial

It says I need to contact the bot

[chilly sundial]

have you dmed the bot with '$unpaid'

[naive heart]

Hello I’m friends with @hardy dagger

[hardy dagger]

@chilly sundial I did

[chilly sundial]

what did the bot say

[hardy dagger]

He never said anything

[chilly sundial]

works fine for me

[hardy dagger]

Weird can you try texting him for me

[chilly sundial]

I did...

Im not going to post a job listing for you though

Post a screenshot of what you're doing maybe

[hardy dagger]

Ok thank you

Hello are you there I like to post a job board to find unreal Engine people to help with my fan Zelda project Saga it's for free I hope you understand I hope that's not an issue

That's what I said to him

[chilly sundial]

Its a bot. Not a person

You didn't do what I said

Dm him with the command '$unpaid'

You see how I did? I said the command and it pops up with instructions on what to do

[hardy dagger]

Ok

Okay I typed it in sunpaid

[chilly sundial]

And what did he say

Did you type sunpaid.... or $unpaid

@hardy dagger

[hardy dagger]

I forgot the dollar sign

Okay now I added it

I did it

[frail marsh]

So which would you prefer? GDD first or designing the first 15 minute flow? My opinion is to consider GDD and the game as a whole. The concept designs and backstory are already determined.

[modern relic]

i dont work in the industry unfortunately but i dont think it has much to do with personal preference. your game/product either has very thorough pre-prod or it doesnt. if it does, then its just a matter of implementing it. you know the story, the mechanics, etc, you just need to make it. otherwise, you are winging your project. coming up with ideas as you go and tweaking things and testing seeing how they go means that you dont really know "whats around the corner" and it also probably means you dont know when your product is ready for release.

someone who actually works in games might have more information or a completely different take

[plucky hatch]

It's all ability based, you will get paid more with experience and talent. Developers will generally earn more than artists, if you want to be an artist don't choose it for the money but because thats what you love doing,

[wild shore]

i love to be in the industry in any part lets say i have been artist developer and now i have been into production and this is like im searching where i fit accurately

to be frank i dont know still which place i fit accurately i have been beginner in all the departments

[plucky hatch]

General rule of thumb is to follow what you enjoy, if you force yourself into something, especially a creative area, the likelihood is you wont be successful

[wild shore]

Mmm i like to do the aaa game completely myself but the problem is i stuck sometimes in middle and leave at the moment

[plucky hatch]

Like what, playing them, working there, im unsure what you mean?

[wild shore]

Aaa game making or i can say indie game on my own

Making it on my own

[vagrant siren]

AAA just means it was made by a mid-sized or major publisher, Indie just means not affiliated with a mid-sized company or major publisher ( short for independent ) 🙂
So you are making in Indie game, like a lot of folks here. Do you have a specific question that relates to Unreal Engine and/or the development of your Indie career/game?

[wild shore]

yeah i would like to make games and sell it on epicgames and steam and i planned a sequel of games where the story is interlinked to each i can say its series of games agent1,2,3 etc goes on

i wanted to make mechanics first then start building the world so that i can place the blue prints accordingly to the point i neeed

is this plan works and i wanted to handle the design and dev part once the prototype is ready i want to collaborate with people to get the game better in performance and beautifull in looks

the reason i wanted to stick to unreal engine is all about the graphics

and the ease of access to the blue prints and communities like this

[barren lotus]

Epic started posting Fortnite internships https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/careers/jobs?company=Epic Games&product=Fortnite&type=Intern&keyword=intern&page=1

[wild shore]

is it only for north america?

[shrewd geyser]

did you click the link?

[karmic bronze]

Guys im trying to learn 3d sculpt, do you know in how much time someone normally takes to become good at it ?

[lilac walrus]

for practically any skill, it's safe to assume it can take 6 months to get basic proficiency in it, 2000 hours to become competent, and 10,000 hours to master

this holds true for most things

[signal laurel]

sculpting is also very hard depending on what kind of person you are, its the single hardest 3d discipline for me

but for others it might feel more natural, so it may depend on who you already are

[plucky hatch]

Just based on observation over the years and working a lot with students, usually see good results after 2-3 years. But it really depends on how much time you put in. Some people, especially those coming from more of a fine art background, can pick it up very quickly, while others can struggle a lot, especially when it comes to anatomy.

[round radish]

I bet they were looking for "a few weeks" 😄

[woeful iron]

at least 40 seconds

give or take a few years

[frigid oasis]

Hi!

Where can I create a portfolio?

Thanks!

[woeful iron]

there's a lot of options

you could make a github.io page, you could use wordpress, you could do wix, if you're an artist artstation can suffice, you can write your own website.

depends on what you prefer

[near heron]

Jekyll static site hosting with a theme and upload to Netlify. Free and fast

[woeful iron]

if you're doing jekyll static hosting you can use a github.io page as well

I made mine with wordpress.com back in the day personally

[jagged delta]

Hi There!

I'm working on a personal project and would love to setup some coffee chats with game devs to understand the space and challenges a bit better.

If anyone is interested, shoot me a DM or comment below and i'll be sure to reach out!

Thanks so much for the help 😄

[frigid oasis]

Thanks

[woeful iron]

not to be mean, but no one is going to DM you, if you wanna know something just ask, e.g. in #ue5-general or #lounge or wherever suits what you wanna ask

[jagged delta]

No hate at all. Thank you for the suggestion! I didn't want to spam in the chat. However, maybe a good conversation will come out of it. You're right! Thanks so much

[hexed fog]

@karmic bronze Being good at sculpting doesn't need 2000 hours ,this is nonsense, you just need to grasp basic concepts, get comfortable with the tools, some practice, and you'd get somewhat decent results

I saw total newbies make hell of decent characters and even retopologise them

[lilac walrus]

Those numbers are generally true of any skill that requires learning and practice - I didn't pull them out of thin air and you'll see similar numbers quoted all over the place; programming, playing the guitar, new sports, whatever. Some people will learn faster, some slower, and some may have already learnt foundational concepts and adjacent skills that makes it easier.

2000 hours is not as much as you might think; that's a few hours per day over the course of one year. You can get there in your spare time if you're dedicated enough.

[trail hull]

and that 10k hours metric was from a study where they tracked elite violinists, and on average, by 18, the elite group (vs the elite teachers, and a few other groups) had amassed 10k hours of deliberate practice.

anders ericcson is the author iirc

[hexed fog]

They not asking to be elite, they just asking to be good

Sculpting isn't as hard as playing the violin

[trail hull]

yeah exactly

[lilac walrus]

that's opinion; some people will find it harder, others will find it easier

[trail hull]

idk google the "role of deliberate practice in the acquistion of expert perfomance"

the study is pretty long and interesting iirc

[hexed fog]

Have you guys ever had to learn something overnight cause of a deadline?

2000 hours doesn't apply to everything

If it was so I would never have met the deadlines

[trail hull]

fair enough

[woeful iron]

well there's also a difference between delivering something ok on a deadline and considering something "good"

if they want to be good enough to find a job, it's gonna take a little more than learning something overnight

[hexed fog]

Yea I'm not saying a night is enough I'm just saying it doesn't take that long

[woeful iron]

it all depends on what you define as good I guess

but I don't think 2000 hours is an overestimation to be considered proficient at something

[pastel estuary]

this is why we have day 1 patches and such :p

[plucky hatch]

In your opinion, in mine I have not seen people get to a decent level in sculpting in anything less than a year unless they had prior knowledge in a sister field (life drawing, physical sculpting etc).
Also the definition of 'good' is a relative term, but since the question was asked in #career-chat we can safely surmise they mean 'good-enough' to find employment.
So I stick by my guns and say its not happening in anything less than a year but most likely more ( I usually tell students 2-3 is the average to learn a design skill to a proficient enough level for employment).

[chilly sundial]

Ye it took me about a year to get quite comfortable with regular ol hard surface modelling

[modern crown]

Your math is a little off if you only spend a few hours(3-4) each day to would take ~2 years to reach 2000 hrs

[strong shale]

Is there any internship opportunity available in the gaming company? Or mostly like to hire FT employee?

[plucky hatch]

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/careers/jobs?company=Epic Games&product=Fortnite&type=Intern&keyword=intern&page=1

[strong shale]

Thank you for sharing. I will take a look

I actually most of the job circular found look for FT employees:) Need to dig more tho

[plucky hatch]

All of the jobs in that link are internships

[plucky hatch]

Studio internships are usually in-situ too so you have to be able to get into the office, just as an extra consideration

[vapid jungle]

hey everyone!

I'm starting to blog more and I'm doing interviews on Hiring/recruiting in the games industry and I need your help.
Do you have a burning question(s) about getting hired/resumes that a recruiter could shed some light on? Any questions are valid, I just want to know what would give you personally the most value if answered!

[near heron]

What gets you in the door (for programmers)? 2 games published to Steam and one to Xbox, for example?

[royal tapir]

Getting you in the door is a matter of your problem solving skills and your work ethic. You shipped 3 games with nothing but spaghetti code and you'll never get a job but if you can demonstrate that you understand the fundamental aspects of writing efficient solutions to complicated problems you can have 0 experience and I'll hire you.

[ashen lynx]

For you, as a recruiter, how important are secondary skills? For example, would you prefer a candidate with less experience, but who is able to recharge office water cooler almost instantly and from sufficient distance ? If so, why? Or why not ?

[vivid cargo]

Hello, I 'm Fluff and I'm a beginner. I have a specific question about internships/apprenticeships and a vague one for the masses. For a bit of background I've always had a passion for games as many do, in my youth i was modding games such as borderlands and fallout because I wanted to shoot Death Claws out of a gatling guns. In highschool i would build minecraft servers and the player base up before selling it for summer money. Downfall here is I didn't see "games" as a means to make a living, I come from a family of working hard with your hands to get where you want in life. So long story short here I became an industrial electrician and technician. While there I began working with plc's (Programmable Logic Controllers) which was kind of my favorite thing to do, changing logic, adding in some new (with help), even troubleshooting was a fun challenge. So I've started my game development journey and I'm currently working on my own ideas, learning a solid foundation of C++ is my current goal. QUESTION: Are remote apprenticeships a thing in the industry? i see lots of internships but id more interested in what I experienced as an electrical apprentice, with a handful of people teaching you good habits to follow and what to avoid. SECOND QUESTION: How did you decide what field in game development to pursue? This question keeps haunting me because I already know I want to have my hand in a little bit of everything. Thanks in advance! -Fluff

[fossil sage]

There's remote everything nowadays, especially in game industry since it doesn't affect workflow too much. That being said it's way easier to guide someone in person than to do it over screenshare and not really seeing what they are up to all the time (so naturally most intern/apprentice roles are on site, with possible relocation in some companies)

When it comes to deciding what field, it's really just trying the grand scheme of things and whatever you like more you start diving deeper into and experimenting. You will eventually figure out what you like to do.
Edit: if you like doing a lot of different things, you might be more of a generalist programmer/artist in which case indie development is a solid option (not specifically solo, but working on indie games)

[steady pewter]

Heya, look at #instructions to see how seeking/offering jobs is done around.

[twilit horizon]

Do any of you professionals have advice on how to go about the following plan I have?

I just lost my job in supply chain logistics where I was putting in 60+ hour weeks and making the company money. I left due to miserable work/life balance.

I've been working on the plans for a game (no story yet, just basic principles) for quite some time (basically since first year of university) and I am wondering how I might turn it into a demo to bring it to life.

I am very slow learning, but if I can support myself during the process, I'm happy to learn ue5 and build it myself. My ideal would be getting hired by a large company seeking to obtain the rights to the game and put me in charge of the vision for the game.

Just looking for where to start here while I send out resumes, all advice is welcome!

[twilit horizon]

so what would be a good position to shoot for with no official experience in order to build my knowledge of the industry?

bearing in mind, my skills/interests lie more on the writing side than technical proficiencies

my university degree is in Business Administration with a concentration on Project Management. So ultimately, I want to get a job that will allow me to build knowledge and understanding of the industry, before segueing to a team manager or similar position.

As a jobless sap right now, I am entertaining most positions.

ultimately, writing has always been a hobby, but I haven't found any positions as a writer that would really suit my long-term interests. I have a lot of experience in ESports and program development at the university level, but I'm not sure how much of that translates to game-development

[plucky hatch]

It will be a longshot, working against you:

-making a game from scratch without a lot of financial backing will probably be even worse work/life balance, more than 60 hours per week than you currently had
-you have been working on it for 'a long time' but you don't yet even have a story
-you are a very slow learner
-you don't have a job currently so will need to spend time finding a new one
-why would a large company hire you when you don't currently have the needed skills. It's hard enough to get hired as a junior when you excell with those skills
-nobody will hire a novice and put you in charge of the vision and allow you to have the rights, you will need to fund your own studio

So many red flags here, not saying it's impossible, but it's highly unlikely. I would narrow your expectations.

A more reasonable prospect could be:
-find a new job and get an income again
-learn the craft, spend a few years learning and making a prototype
-when you are ready seek employment at a studio
-with enough experience start your own thing on the side or if you are good enough make your own studio entirely with financial backing

[twilit horizon]

Appreciate the suggested change in prospect!

I'm aware of the red-flags, hence why I'm asking for tips here.

Concerning "Learn the craft". I suppose I chose a roundabout way to ask, because no one seems to answer the actual question I have.
What would be a good position to look for that would teach me the craft? Every position I've found seems to require years in the industry.
Or does no one really have a training program and invest in their new-hires?

As for the story aspect, I have a world built, just lacking character to character interaction (mostly) and the story is unfinished/unrefined

[plucky hatch]

It depends on what you want to do:

1. Work in the games industry
2. Make your own game

[twilit horizon]

well, the assumption is I'll work in the game industry in order to make my own game in the future. as laura said, the jumping directly to directing my own project would be a moonshot

[plucky hatch]

Its more than a moonshoot, you also need to break down what role you want. Jack of all trades at a beginner level doesnt really exist.
So you could be a writer, developer, artists for example, but not all three

[twilit horizon]

My interests would work best as writer. I would burn out as a developer and dont have the talent of an artist.

[plucky hatch]

Ok well then you want to be looking for writing positions on games, that narrows things down.

[twilit horizon]

what types of titles would I look for when it comes to entry-level writing positions in games?

[plucky hatch]

SO have you researched existing roles to see what is needed and what you currently lack (besides experience).

[twilit horizon]

thats my next step. I need to know what roles to research first. "Writing" seems to be too broad for me to find any concise results.

I also don't know the best place to look. probably hitmarker?

[plucky hatch]

Quest Designer is a role

Dialogue writer

[twilit horizon]

bet, adding those to my list

Appreciate all your help btw, I know I ask a lot of questions that many might consider dumb.

how so?

makes sense

[plucky hatch]

I would say Laura's point B is more suitable for you

[twilit horizon]

speaking of B. how much does it cost to build a typical working demo that could be used as a proof of concept?

Barebones demo, showing the base root of the concept and core mechanics*

[plucky hatch]

It can costs €100k's easy if you look at it for a time point of view.

Lets say it takes 1 year to make the demo, you have one mid level artist on €50k and a developer on €50k. In salary alone thats €100k, add on licenses, materials, office if needed etc, you can be up in very high figures.

[twilit horizon]

I've gotta read up on TWA, im only roughly familiar with the name

I mean, without starting my own studio, how much would an established studio charge for say, 200 hours of purely development work, using premade free assets from UE5 or something. or is that not possible?

[plucky hatch]

Well my studio we charge about €120 p/h so that would be about €24,000

200 hours will go fast if you dont manage very well what is done in them too

[twilit horizon]

Google shows figures ranging from $5k-$300k, but that doesnt specify the quality of work, level of customization and control over the progress of the project

[plucky hatch]

For 200 hours I can tell you that you wont get very much control thats not a lot of time

[twilit horizon]

thats kinda what i figured, thanks for confirming that for me though

[plucky hatch]

Lets say you have 5 people, you meet twice per week for 1 hour, thats 10 hours per week, 40 hours per month.

thats almost 25% of your budget gone

[twilit horizon]

makes sense

[plucky hatch]

Well you have to judge that for yourself, you evaluate a studio based on its output, is the work they deliver good? Do I want to hire them? Can I afford that rate?, if not, who is the next best studio, then repeat until your find your quality/cost balance

[shut token]

Laura's game is going to be a coroutine dream. I can just feel it.

[twilit horizon]

no idea what coroutine is

[shut token]

Some programming shenanigans

[chilly sundial]

Well in essence it's
// A coroutine

[twilit horizon]

I wish I had better knowledge of programming. but I just really don't have the patience for it

[twilit horizon]

LOL

I started college in Comp-Sci and software development was the goal until one of my professors tried to kick me out of university for catching a glitch in her code

Thanks for all of your help, all of you! DM's are open if you think of anything else. I'll stop creating clutter in this channel now

[rain gate]

Hello im new here and i had a bit of a question for you more experienced devs. Do you think it is worth going to a game development collage or is it foolish? From what I gathered people care a lot about Networking and the skills you have to show you are committed and skilled in your position. There are plenty of free resources out there to try and learn yourself but there is also the oprtuintu to go to a school where you are surrounded by like-minded people in pursuit of a job in the industry. I wasn't sure if i wanted to put this in industry or career as its a general question concerning my game dev future, so sorry if its out of place.

[craggy nacelle]

If it doesn't put you into massive debt, a degree of some variety is usually not a bad idea. If it has immediate financial consequences then YMMV.

[rain gate]

As far as I see it will teach a lot on, modeling, art and animation. As well as texturing, lightning and such but what kinda bothers me as it says nothing about coding or working on en engine. Which kinda scares me

[pastel estuary]

its also learning how to finish things, how to deal with critique, how to work with people from different walks of life, and different interests and trades, how to cope with deadlines, networking.

[rain gate]

That is a fair point and definitely something to take into consideration. I think the school would be a great experience but im just worried ill be paying for a class that doesn't teach me all aspects of how a game is made. Than again I am very new to this and just trying to find the best angle to approach

[craggy nacelle]

I think you may find it difficult to find something that will teach you "all aspects" of something. But it's still better to learn for example 50% than 0%

[twilit horizon]

From my experience, college is entirely as Luos mentioned. Any aspects of development, or really anything you want to learn about something, can be found online. But how to work with people from different walks of life, coping with deadlines, and finishing something no matter your own level interest in that thing, are very useful and college is a great place to learn that.

Your first step, asking for advice from people who likely have had many different experiences with the topic, is already showing that you'll most likely be successful whichever path you walk.

[plucky hatch]

There are those Universities that excel in both the quality of what is taught, the faculty and the industry networking they can provide, but they are few and far between and very expensive.

[rain gate]

I greatly appreciate the feedback and thanks for listening

[rain gate]

I think that's 100% true and something I should be more open about. That again it might be good to learn one aspect in collage and use my down time to study another aspect with the tools online.

[limber rose]

Would anyone know of any good raw C++ courses for an intermediate level? I have about a year's worth of experience working in Unreal Engine and I have knowledge of the fundamentals of C++ but I'm looking for something which goes a bit more advanced, if anyone has a link to a Udemy course which could help me that would be great

I looked on Udemy and there are just too many courses for me to pick from, the one course I did pick which I did for about 2 hours was made for a beginner, which I already have knowledge of most of the basics already, since I learned at school

Yeah, I already completed Tom Looman's course, I'm moreso looking into learning raw C++ to learn the language better

but thanks for the links 😄

[near heron]

Read Effective C++

And Game Programming Patterns

[vivid cargo]

would this also be the best route after i finish my book called C++ Through Game programming. I was originally planning on reading Game Engine Architecture which touches on a bit of what game programming patters does. ami still going down the right path?

[near heron]

Every C++ programmer should read Effective C++ but you don't have to read it straight through, maybe just read a chapter or two every week as you're programming to tighten up your C++

You can jump around to things that interest you as well

It's structured as a bullet list of tips basically

If you're an experienced programmer I'd recommend just skimming through Game Programming Patterns so that you're aware of that vocabulary of patterns and can reach for them as needed

There's also More Effective C++ and one for modern C++ which goes up to C++ 14 which is perfect for UE dev

[vivid cargo]

Great answer, Thank you for the knowledge.

[shrewd geyser]

Check TheCherno youtube channel... He has several playlist with hundreds of videos each. On different topics but most of them using C++ for something...

Including one playlist also with over 100 videos about C++ starting at the very basic

[tame sentinel]

Just out of curiosity...why? Because their Blender-Courses are pretty good imo.

[modern crown]

I can definitely tell who they are talking about but the other main tutor they use follows UE naming conventions and C++ practices well

[mystic cloud]

The bald one?

[modern crown]

The American the guy who did the tank lesson

[mystic cloud]

Tank lesson is the worst one

[modern crown]

That’s is who i assumed you were referencing

[mystic cloud]

First chapter where they do a cow game is where they hot reload and encourage VSCode over proper IDEs, tank chapter is where they use auto all over the place and ignore the existence of gameplay framework, and after that if you are still watching the rest of the chapters, you probably already doomed 😄

[modern crown]

They got rid of most of that, and the young british guy they have doing the newer stuff follows epic naming conventions much better

[mystic cloud]

The reason I know a lot about them is I was trying to create a CMC alternative and their multiplayer course was only source in the whole world, but it had issues and I tried to contact them for ask things etc. -- they didn't care to help even though I paid for it. Then found their social media accounts etc. later on I realized they are nothing but scammers

There isn't a person who knows how UE works in their team

They have a common sense of programming and average knowledge of UE

[woeful iron]

Waiting for that Eren gamedev.tv tutorial

[mystic cloud]

You're probably talking about Sam Patuzzi

Sam also dont know how UE is suppose to work at all

[mystic cloud]

He was doing the multiplayer course: <#ue5-general message>

lmfao

[woeful iron]

damn, tutorial reaction content is new meta

[near heron]

What's bad about hot reload?

Hot Reloading is the process of compiling new DLL files while the editor is open and loading them. While Hot Reload often works for a while, it is unreliable and frequently causes blueprint corruption or other issues (more info below). Most users recommend avoiding Hot Reloading entirely, which means you need to close the editor to compile safely.

I guess this is the reason

[steel creek]

It's the reason career chat is always broken with stuff that has nothing to do with careers?

[modern crown]

I disagree, learning about why hot reload is bad is helpful for anyone’s career

[tribal junco]

hot reloading of content is life-changing though

[trail hull]

depends how you develop I suppose. If you like to make small iterations then yeah for sure cuz it speeds up the work flow

[woeful iron]

No it breaks everything

[tribal junco]

im telling you from experience its a life changer for content creators. at least unless you have a wysiwyg viewport in your editor like unreal and unity do

[trail hull]

ye

[royal lintel]

that's not the hot reload being talked about though

[trail hull]

UE is also built for large teams and specialist work flows, not freelancers

[royal lintel]

"hot reloading" content is not the same thing as what the engine calls hot reload.

reimporting and modifying content live is fine, but it's not what that conversation was about. "Hot reload" in the context of unreal is specifically recompiling C++ (not blueprint) with the editor running.

[woeful iron]

Which to noone’s surprise can corrupt your blueprints

[trail hull]

isn;t it more instancing thats the issue?

or w/e its called

[near heron]

OK Hot Reload = Bad but what about the new Live Coding? https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/using-live-coding-to-recompile-unreal-engine-applications-at-runtime/

[royal lintel]

Live coding is fine if you turn reinstancing off.

[frail bobcat]

Freelancer question: If you are a freelancer in charge of design (among other things) charging by the hour, and you lay in bed at night thinking about a feature for an hour, have an idea, then write it down on a notepad, and implement it the next day

Do you charge for that hour

[lilac walrus]

No. Everybody has times when they stumble upon solutions or ideas in their spare time, but that's the key, it is spare time, not working time. You charge for when you are actively working on something.

[tribal junco]

wew now theres a name i've not seen in a hot minute

[plucky hatch]

If it takes a decent amount of time to write down then yes you can bill for that.

[craggy nacelle]

If you lay in bed thinking about it on purpose with your goal being to think about it, then I'd say it's billable, but if you're trying to sleep and your mind wanders then no lol

The writing down part agree with Robots

[mystic cloud]

imo it's good to be upfront about this from earlier to the client, I always tell them how much time possibly I'm going to spend for planning and creating ideas etc

[plucky hatch]

I don't understand some recent trend that I read in the news. Ppl from outside USA being accepted at private colleges because they play LoL or something.

[frail bobcat]

I suppose that's a personal flaw, my projects are all tight deadline so far so if I haven't hit the required milestone I don't stop thinking about it haha. Keeps me up at night, sometimes I jump up and go back to working.

Maybe I should switch to milestone invoice pricing so I don't have to think about it

[frail bobcat]

I think this is my trouble, I'm relatively new to freelancing for myself and I'm not having an easy time properly setting expectations. My current client didn't realize what he had was a project management and design issue, not a "just make the code" issue, and so because I had to spend time just organizing the "team" (One full time one part timer haha) and discussing things with their client to get the ideation phase actually done, I didn't start coding until a week and a half in, and once the invoice for the month came in they took issue with me having charged for anything past the time I was literally in a meeting with someone about all that.

So the extreme edge of charging for design and project management is "If I was thinking about your project with applicable results (didn't fall asleep and forget it or something), that's a result of my time and effort".
There's a middle ground there that I'm trying to reach to try to defend charging for my time doing that kind of work.

[mystic cloud]

Are you talking about code design or art design

assuming from your name, its code design? 😄

[frail bobcat]

Haha, it's a little of both. They have an experience they want and they thought they just wanted a coder

but then the model asset creator had a bunch of issues, they didn't have anyone to do lighting, they don't know their limits of VR and how that relates to the fidelity level they can reach for, so art design came into it from that aspect.

On the code side they had no one, no idea what features were needed to actually do the thing, hadn't thought about how people would interact with the things in the game world, so I had to suss all that out before code could begin

[mystic cloud]

Since I only do part-time or short-term jobs I constantly join those type of teams and I never care about their project

Before starting the job, I ask them to take 30 minutes to listen how I'm going to do things and once they accept, I go yolo and never care again

If they dont like something even though I'm just trying to make them get convinced for their sake, I just dont even care and say "ok"

then go yolo again

On the code side they had no one, no idea what features were needed to actually do the thing
they don't know their limits of VR
they didn't have anyone to do lighting
but then the model asset creator had a bunch of issues
those types of teams expect much and pay less, and wont have any idea of what should be rewarded or what should be punished

generally speaking ofc

[frail bobcat]

I mean, yeah you're super right haha

I don't mind doing this, I actually really enjoy and think I'm good at doing this kind of work, and am thankful I can get the opportunity to do that in an industry where if I joined a larger organization I would really be more coglike, ultimately that's what I want to be doing.

But I'd like to charge appropriately for it, cause I think they don't realize what value they're getting from me; the reason this client called me is because my previous client in the same industry called me in to save their project/hit deadlines (and recommended me to save this one)

It seems like they have the budget, it's just a mentality issue of feeling like it's worth their money.

The same people will pay $50 an hour to a biomedical consultant who googles diabetes studies and repeats it to them, so there's gotta be some room there haha.

(that dude is also actually amazing, that was his self depreciating way of describing himself to me)

[pseudo veldt]

hey! so my name is daniel and im a sophomore in high school right now, i do a lot of high-level extracurriculars and do a lot of game development and 3D art in my spare time, i was wondering if i could get some help with ACT prep, and figuring out what goals i should have, what i hope to achieve is to get into NYU or USC, for their game design courses (i know college may not be worth it) does anyone have good tips for the ACT, more specifically how to prepare for it and also what kind of scores i should be looking at trying to achieve?

[chrome zodiac]

ACT as in, the general college placement test?

[chrome zodiac]

If you're looking to be a career professional, you pretty much can't go wrong with "Higher Scores are better". As for college admissions, you can usually look up each school and do a search for things like average GPA and ACT of accepted students in previous years, and bigger schools you can often specify programs like pre-med or computer science

[pseudo veldt]

alright, after doing some digging im looking at trying for a 32-34 on my ACT, but i have no idea how on earth to achieve such a thing

im incredibly intelligent academically, but idk how far that will get me

[chrome zodiac]

I got a 34 on my ACT when I was younger without any dedicated preparation at all, so if you're the naturally talented type you shouldn't sweat too much, but ofc, as with any test score that matters to you, prep for it if you have that option.

[pseudo veldt]

alright, also how much do extracurriculars matter to colleges? im in a lot and work really hard with all of them

[chrome zodiac]

Extracurriculars are more important to elite spots or highly competitiveprograms. They type that has 50 seats and 1,000 applicants

[pseudo veldt]

gotcha, but with such a low acceptance rate does that make a difference?

NYU has a 22% acceptance rate

[chrome zodiac]

What I mean is, in cases where acceptance rates are low, usually the relevant test scores are all very similarly high, and other things become "tie-breakers" so to speak

without extreme competition, colleges generally just take the higher scoring people

I've heard of some people handling apps to bigger schools just basically doing a sort by highest, and blindly rejecting whatever comes after the cutoff before even beginning to read any

22% is more competitive than some (like my own UCD which reports 46% acceptance) But there are some college programs where acceptace goes way under 1%.

Then again, overall acceptance can be dractically different from a specific program's acceptance at the same school

But there's also a lot you should figure out about your specific role. Try to find real-world job listings for the sort of thing you're trying to be in the gaming industry and see what sort of credentials they want from you.

[pseudo veldt]

gotcha, does major make a difference? i know NYU’s game design program isn’t their main thing and therefore is a lot less competitive,

[chrome zodiac]

Yes it makes a huge difference, like I was saying before. If competition is low, then acceptance rates will probably be much higher than the school's overall rate, which is an average that includes the most competitive majors

[chrome zodiac]

Depending on what aspect of game development you want to specialize, you may be better off just diving in, self-teaching, and building a portfolio. The viability of a college degree here is wildly different for different roles. For engine development, a degree would probably be a hard necessity. For concept art or sound design, a degree may actually take a backseat behind outright demonstrations of what you can do (portfolio)

[pseudo veldt]

gotcha, my plan is to go into college for game design and a minor in business and try and get myself in the door of the industry or get myself off the ground with my own business, my main focuses are programming and 3D art

[chrome zodiac]

"Starting your own business" pretty much comes down to whether you have the money and the guts to do it.
"Joining someone else's business to climb the administrative ranks" would likely require a business degree to enter into the management side of the company
And getting someone to hire you professionally as a programmer would require a computer science degree.

[pseudo veldt]

alright, what if my goal is to work as an artist or programmer in my own studio, or in a larger company

[chrome zodiac]

All four possible combinations there have significantly different needs

[pseudo veldt]

then what would a major in game and interactive design be good for

[chrome zodiac]

Im not sure, I got my degree in biology and then started learning unreal on my own.
Try taking those programs names like that one, "game and interactive design" and typing it into indeed.com and see what kind of demand exists for it in the professional space

[pseudo veldt]

alrighty, thanks for the help!

[chrome zodiac]

Ah, the minors thing didnt cross my mind at all

[pseudo veldt]

true, but i mainly want my focus to lie in games and such, i wasn’t sure if going with a more specific major would help

it did, i was thinking a minor in art or theatre because it’s something i enjoy

[chrome zodiac]

Degrees with broader scope could generate more opportunities, but may also be less respected and/or more difficult, too

As in, "Biology" might not cause the same interest as "Genetic Analyst" when applying to a gene therapy research company

@pseudo veldt I think something important to remember with colleges is that they exist to make money, and their advisors will neglect fail to tell you if a particular degree program actually correlates to good hiring rates. You have to get your own hard numbers when making those sort of decisions

[frail bobcat]

https://discordapp.com/channels/187217643009212416/187217643009212416/1009833534044774550
@analog crest re: your intro post, I previously was a dsl tech support training manager for 5 years, although I had a degree in computer animation for my undergrad. But uh, it was a very bad program and it turns out me getting honors in a bad program still meant I was a bad animator who knew very little. The sculpting professor teaching Maya and not knowing what UVs were was probably a sign I should have taken, but hey I didn't know either yet.

Anyways, without typing up my biography, I had background in art and coding and after going back to school (Which I maybe didn't need to do, before I got my masters I was already back to making stuff, which is what got me into the program, but oh well) I graduated and am now freelancing. (And having a little trouble finding my niche and the proper payrate for it, but c'est la vie, at least I have a pretty constant stream of work I enjoy.)

[analog crest]

Hey thank you so much for the reply! It's great that you have found a constant stream of work that you enjoy. I think there are few things better in the world - which is why I'm trying to get there. I'm sure with a little bit more time you'll find your niche and the pay rate you're looking for.

I'm curious to know how you marketed your "design skills" while transitioning from tech support. Eg - did you use a personal website, resume updates, testimonials or something else? Based on personal experience alone, trying to fit any type of concept art or 3D software into my resume, which is filled with coordination/exec roles, makes it seem disjointed and (unfortunately so and a bit accurately so) inexperienced. Especially since I've learned concept art skills formally out of college and am currently learning UE5.

[knotty solar]

Its funny you say that, Softwaresalute, I went back to finish my degree, it wasn't needed but it was something I wanted to do, and I seen this as well, most of the teachers, I actually had to teach them the basics of how to use, UDK, Max, etc. It was embarrassing for them, and students would come to me, I would complain to the school, which in turn got sued and got bought out. So for game development I hear and see this alot all over the place. They charge alot, and give little back. When I started game development/Programming, art, this stuff did not exist. We learned by trial and error, we did not have the net, You tube or anything. Resources are all over the place today, the only difference, is there is alot of bad information out there, and people teaching others bad habits ... and wrong ways. I had retired after 28 + years in the industry as a UX/UI Designer/programmer, 2d/3d artist at the studio, and I would freelance, just about anything. So to Maestro, one of the biggest problems for some people is reaching out to companies, to see if they need contractors, and contact investors, and many indies always looking for help. .Today more than ever, programmers are needed badly, all over the place.... Most companies are hurting... More more of them are hiring contract teams.... to help work on AAA, AA games... So, if you can network, then it will be easy to find work, over time, it will be word of mouth... My last prolly 10+ years I didn't need a resume, or website, I would get work from a company, or investor I did work for, would tell someone else, and I would get other jobs.. So, for a new freelancer, contractor best to make a good portfolio, and network, like your life depends on it....

Be sure to have a tight contract when you work as a freelancer as well, alot of people get burned because they don't, I had one made up my an attorney years ago, which covered other countries, due to laws. I got burned in my early years so you live and learn. So be sure to do that.

[restive kestrel]

Question: why is the job post section looking like this for me? Read the instructions but didn't help explain much.
What's worse is that searching "can't see jobs" gave me 3 results of people asking the same thing, but no answer was provided.

[knotty solar]

which platform are you using?

[steel creek]

turn on link preview

in discord

[knotty solar]

Mine looks fine, my guess, is this is you have a setting turned off. in Discord.

[restive kestrel]

That was prompt. I'll check it now.

yes, now it works - thank you, you two!

(at the cost of seeings memes and gifs now.... 😄 )

[knotty solar]

Ya, you may have changed it by accident. it happens, its typically set up by default.

[restive kestrel]

I recall why I changed it - I think I didn't want to see gifs and such since they were mesmerizing.

[knotty solar]

Ya.

[restive kestrel]

interesting post you wrote above by the way

read it

Thank you for sharing some insight on it.

[spice junco]

Hey, I'm getting some downtime at work so I'm being given the chance to take some courses during that time. What technologies (or better yet specific courses) would you recommend? I'm in a junior programming role, I have a decent grasp of the engine so maybe some other software that complements unreal (like Houdini for instance)would be nice. What do you guys suggest?

[round radish]

C++ courses.

[spice junco]

Mmm good idea is Udemy the best place for stuff like this or somewhere else?

[analog crest]

Thanks for the reply! Some good insight. Would love to get more information about a rock solid contract. Can you nudge me in the right direction? DM me if needed.

[gleaming sandal]

This is an amazing rundown if you have 30hrs and want to learn C++
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jLOx1hD3_o

[shrewd geyser]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlrATfBNZ98dudnM48yfGUldqGD0S4FFb

This guy has amazing courses

[shrewd geyser]

True

I really enjoyed his game engine series

Which he just picked it up again after a while

[knotty solar]

Well, some of the basics you should have it covered related to different laws, regarding payments. If I didn't know someone, at all or well, I had them pay 50% up front, and I did a process, where they had signed approval process, during the development, 25%/50%/75%/100% , the reason for this, some times clients really have no idea what they really wanted, and decide to change there mind later... Which can cost you a ton of time. time=money. So, I started doing this about 5 years in when I was a freelancer, up until I retired nearly 2 years back.

Make sure you have a lawyer, that knows contracts well, and hire him/her.

its worth the money you will spend, to cover your ass.

Also I personally didn't do contract work for anyone that didn't have a tax ID, LLC, etc.

Its harder to get your money, if they try and screw you. So, if you do work for someone like that, make sure everything is clear and in writing.. and get more money upfront.. before you give them anything. Until you get to know them.

You can also team up, which is part of what I did, (with other freelancers) at times and do contract work for a larger company, which is even more common today. Same thing applies about contracts for them too.

What I did, as far as pay goes, I supplied most of my own software, and in turn , I got paid way more. So I was able to set my pay, pretty easily. So I recommend to over time pay all your own software, or most of it.

[vocal sorrel]

Hi, im trying to research on a good unis and courses for masters in game dev. somewhere ideally in europe, but anyything is fine. so are there any good recommendations or websites for me to check out?

[stray cargo]

any ideas of how to get in contact with a good UI designer?

[pearl tartan]

Hey, you can check out the Games Masters Program of the TUM: https://www.in.tum.de/en/in/for-prospective-students/masters-programs/informatics-games-engineering/

[vocal sorrel]

thank you so much, i will check it out

[woeful iron]

this is what I did in belgium http://digitalartsandentertainment.be/

not a master though

[slender crest]

Hey all, I've been doing full-stack development in enterprise software for about a decade now and want to make the switch to gamedev industry, preferably small/medium companies using Unreal Engine. I have a full-time job so need to spend my time wisely. My most transferrable skill is probably UI / tools development but I'm very adept at learning maths and graphics programming does interest me. What is my quickest path to getting hired? Go hard on the UI dev or graphics programming, or become a generalist?

[mystic cloud]

Depends on where do you want to get hired I guess

You cant find a graphics programmer job in many indie studios

I think mastering at a specific thing can get you find a job more easy though, at least in programming

[north plover]

I wouldn't expect anyone hiring you for more than a junior or regular position, so probably already sacrificing half of your income. The most usual path is to specialize while being a generalist. Also what Eren said, you won't have that much choice in small - medium studios. You will probably have to do everything a bit since the company won't have enough manpower to have specialized programmers.

[still nymph]

Becoming proficient in graphics programming is definitely not the fastest way to get hired. Additionally, those roles are more and more exclusive to large studios with their own engines, not small/medium.

[north plover]

Quickest way would probably learning c++ and Unreal engine framework as much as you can. C++ devs are usually quite rare.

[slender crest]

Thanks for the all the responses! I actually did C++ while getting my degree in CS, so shouldn't be too bad picking it back up. And yeah I definitely expect the salary cut, so no worries there. From the responses here and other forums, I'm thinking I'll focus on being a generalist first and dive more into specialty later on. I should continue the development of the small game I started (and then got burnt out on) last year then I could get into graphics / shader programming.

[mystic cloud]

Why do you specifically want graphics / shader programming by the way? Interest or salaries?

I think industry is mostly looking for engine developers when they say graphics programmer

Rather than UE graphics programmers

[north plover]

not sure that's true. It highly depends on the studio's focus.

[slender crest]

I enjoy mathematical problems and I think I'd esp enjoy ones that achieve cool art 😎 But the salary / job security would be appreciated too.

[mystic cloud]

True, but I think if you scope it to UE, it'll be very few i guess

So just wanted to say if the goal is to stay in UE it might not be the best choice

[north plover]

well we have a graphics programmer focusing on graphics for our project, not engine itself.

[mystic cloud]

If you say so, you know better

[slender crest]

Would you mind giving a couple examples of what problems they've solved? That'd be super helpful for future portfolio!

[north plover]

As programmer job security should not be that much of an issue. 😄

[north plover]

they were quite specific not sure I can tell anything without breaking NDA.

[slender crest]

https://tenor.com/view/frodo-keep-your-secrets-alright-then-lotr-gif-12907121

[mystic cloud]

One of the friends in the industry told me their graphics programmer was working on altering how lights being displayed in the game

He gave me a specific answer about "what kind of altering" but cant really remember now

Fun fact is he also told me after 4.22 whole graphics pipeline refactored and their work is also gone 😄

[slender crest]

Ha that's pretty frightening. Thanks you Josai and Eren for all the help!

[frail bobcat]

To clarify a bit, when you say design, what are you thinking of? You're mentioning concept art, so do you mean visual design?

If so, concept art as I understand is just... have a great clean, semi diverse portfolio. I'm not a concept artist or visual designer, though I know a few. It seems like besides the variability between company types (AAA studio, indie, visualization, VFX, etc), having really clear ability to take direction, match different visual style guides, AND also have creative original artwork makes for a good portfolio. Shipped products are important, as in all aspects of this industry.

The big no no's I hear for that one are people who really adhere to one specific style, at the Blizzard GDC booth I've seen many people who come with portfolios laden with Blizzard style concept art that really lacks alternate styles and original pieces, or just stylized work in general that never reveals their ability to accurately model something they see in a realistic manner

[frail bobcat]

I'm running into this passively right now, I've mostly worked with good faith that the terms we agreed upon will be upheld without an explicit contract, and it seems like we're having a disagreement over it now.

I'll have to budget for a lawyer to draw me up a template.

[primal lava]

Hey, been reading this chat and wondered what job title should I aim for where I can manage the whole project (like movie director in cinema) and what possible salary can I get with my skills? Made a game in a year from scratch in UE4, all the assets and sound design, music etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrbFxKGfHk

[lilac walrus]

That would be a game director or creative director, but you can't realistically aim for that, people get there later in their career after years, if not decades of experience.

The majority of people working in the industry never attain that level of seniority.

[woeful iron]

also that level of management is not really related to making a whole game by yourself at all

[primal lava]

So... where do I aim then?

[woeful iron]

well what do you want to do

programming, graphics, design, writing?

I guess creative director most generally flows from designer roles, but I don't have hard facts on that

[primal lava]

Sounds surprising but I wanna make games lol. Mostly with some stories to tell. Basically manage whole project with creative vision or something

I guess game director it is

[woeful iron]

but if you have no industry experience, the chances you will find a game director role willing to hire you are extremely slim

if you want this, and you want it now, your only option pretty much is starting your own studio

but that is quite risky

[crystal basin]

As a junior programmer I have only touched 2 projects and all of them were terrible legacy code written by (believe it or not) people who managed to write worse code than I used to write even before I got my first job. I'm stuck in this limbo for like 8 months now.

Tell me about good code and how much I should be improving my skills in a great projects - which I'm not because on daily basis I'm debugging and unwinding someone else's spaghettini codini 🎪

[woeful iron]

what is your question exactly?

[crystal basin]

Sorry, good point.
I guess it would be:
Are you supposed to develop your skills faster outside of your work (own projects) than when working - because this is what I feel like
And it feels kind of bad, because my friends from other IT fields often tell me how much their learned when they started working.
Me not so much

[woeful iron]

in my experience, definitely not

at least at the start of your career

if you're a junior and not learning anything new at work, you might consider finding a new job

at least if improving is your goal

[crystal basin]

It's not necessarily that I'm not learning anything i guess.
I always face problems that I have to investigate, find solutions to, debug and so on.
But I have this feeling that I'm surrounded by old, deprecated not-so-good code, which makes me think:
Wouldn't I learn faster if I was looking at good code on daily basis instead?
I guess Its project specific

[woeful iron]

depends what you do with it and how you define not-so-good code

[crystal basin]

I spend bsically 70% of my time refactoring the code - 90% of times the code is not mine

and I'm a junior - the code I work with is just the worst

[woeful iron]

believe me, this won't be the last time you're working with other people's code

but if you think it's not good enough for you, find a new job

no one holding you back

[crystal basin]

I guess its just this

[woeful iron]

This is my issue 😭 , my job is interesting and challenging a lot of the time, but I feel underpaid, but if I quit I will probably end up in a shit job without any challenge

one time I got a job offer where they said I could be tech lead of the company in 6 months, apparently no one else had the ambition to do it lol

red flag for me

java 🤢

very happy I'm working on the "innovation part" of the company though

shit we have software that is 35 years old. But we're changing up everything since 3 years

would not want to work in the teams still working on the old application

big sad

interesting approach

interesting approach to slowly killing your own code

[north plover]

I once had a team lead who didn't know c++ so we were not allowed to do a lot of things because they couldn't understand it.

[woeful iron]

that is a wild take

[north plover]

yeah especially since whole team was working in c++ but the lead didn't know anything about the language or any kind of c-based language really.

well it was also the job where I (as junior then) was teaching the senior c++ 🤷

[woeful iron]

I had to convince a software architect last week that using futures is not witchcraft

[north plover]

I know exactly what you mean. The senior I was working with was an artist the last 15 years or so before they started this job, last time they heard about c++ was in college.

[shut token]

brb - applying to senior roles

[plucky hatch]

Hello, I’m a new member to the discord and was wondering if I should keep working on my Roblox projects (as i am a beginner programmer) or use a different thing like unreal engine and start from there. Thank you in advance. 🙂

Sorry if this is the wrong chat channel to use. I’m not used to discord.

[woeful iron]

you should not do anything really

do what you want

if you're just enjoying yourself do what you like

if you specifically want to go for a job though, definitely learn a game engine like unreal

but if you're just young and starting out, making roblox stuff can be a good start

[frail bobcat]

Some of the best designers and programmers I've met got their start modding or making flash games or things like that, roblox stuff ain't a bad place to start. I don't know the pipeline or what programming entails in that, but as long as you are learning and making that's fine. If you feel like you want a new challenge, jump to something yeah like unreal and see where you can go from there.

[plucky hatch]

Thank you for both of your responses. I wanted to learn unreal but I wasn’t sure if it was the best option as a beginner but I think I’ll go back to it as I do want to eventually work on games that use the more advanced languages.

Like cpp and such.

I have one more question if anyone is free to answer it. How would I get into the industry without a degree, and would need one in the future?

[woeful iron]

you don't necessarilty need a degree, though it can help\

but most important is a strong portfolio

make some nice projects

in games industry, examples of work you've done are valued over degrees most of the time

[plucky hatch]

Thank you, I was just kind of confused as I know zero people in the industry. I really appreciate your help.

[somber trench]

Does anyone know the names for those "planning board" websites

I want to plan out and make a to do list (really sorry if this is the wrong channel to ask)

[modern gust]

Trello or maybe even Airtable?

[woeful iron]

Hacknplan?

In general they’re called kanban

[grizzled lynx]

how much does a senior animator position pay ?

[pastel estuary]

dont know, but prolly a lot since they are quite the unicorn

[barren lotus]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jJ9C0Qw6QAiSDZrE_P3IBeA_OpiRSwFfACuYccKgdLk/edit#gid=599893356

[grizzled lynx]

thank you

[muted gyro]

Most code is bad, but a lot of it is bad for a reason like not enough time, it just works so who cares, etc. Learning how to work with existing code bases is good even if that code is bad

[pulsar plank]

hello~
im a student currently getting my hands dirty with UE and stuff I have a few games Ive made with a couple of other engines plus a board game. I like games quite a bit and was interested in applying to internships for the next summer in the games industry and I have a few questions:

I was curious what the best way is to actually find them. At the moment Im just typing "Game Internships" into google or hitting up the websites of studios seeing if they have an internship page.

What should a portfolio for an intern app look like? what are the expectations? Every time I look up portfolios they are by people with years of experience and I kinda feel lost on what the expectations are. Its a bit more easier for something like programming since I can just list projects and link my github page(atleast thats what ive been doing, this could be a horribly wrong approach for all i know) but for something like "game design" what kind of expectations should I be trying to meet? 3 games? 4 games? 10 games? how good should they be? how fun should they be? should they be focused to a genre or are they ok with someone who has a more general skill set?
I understand that for the second question it also depends on the specific posting but in terms of a general portfolio that I can use it would be nice to know what stuff by others looks like

(my apologies if this kind of question isnt what this channel is meant for and I didntt understand the channel description correctly. I did read it and I do think it fits but my brain is smooth so i could be wrong. Let me know and ill remove it)

[woeful iron]

think of games you like playing, find their studio, apply to intern position or open applications

for a portfolio, the quality can matter a lot more than quantity. We have hired artists in the past with 2 extremely amazing pieces of work over someone with 20 mediocre pieces. There is no set amount of something that is "required" imo. Just show your best work, make it so that you are confident that if you show someone the page, they can gauge your skill level in a few minutes.
An important point imo is also showing the process/breakdown of your work. E.g. for programmers show the code, for artists show the topology and lighting and the whole shabang. Not an expert on design but you could show some world building stuff, or sketches about mechanics idk.
If you really want to work for a specific studio or genre, make something like that. No use in making a roblox game if you want to work on call of duty like games for example.

[somber trench]

Thank you

[barren lotus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcCFto0u_g4

[steel creek]

they should be called Diorama Designs.

[pulsar plank]

Got it thankyou for the advice!

[chilly sundial]

Or "Speed environment art" but that doesn't sound as catchy, and I'm sure the YouTube algorithm would agree with that 😅

[deep mural]

How expensive is post high school anyways? I plan to go to college and I have like 1k rn (just turned 17yo)

[steady pewter]

What is "post high school" and where you live? Context matters and that too little info.

[deep mural]

post high school = directly after high school, I live in Michigan, I want to move out asap aswell cus knowing my parents they are def gonna try to make me play like all the rent + i have basically no space to myself rn

[chilly sundial]

Yeah college debt can be quite high. In the UK my tuition fees end up being like 45k for 5 years, and about 40k for the maintenance loans from my student finance.

I have also heard it easily being like 150k-200k stateside. Although I imagine it varies wildly on specific college, and course. For example over here if you are not an British National, the tuition fees end up being about 11k per year instead of 9,250

It would probably be worth checking with the specific college you want to attend honestly.

I know over here we have a national resource for universities and Higher education called UCAS, but I'm unsure if there is anything similar I the US

[deep mural]

Yeah I actually didn't know much about the debt thing, how much do they charge per month or whatever?

For you atleast

[modern crown]

Student debt usually doesn’t start getting paid until you are done with school, which it is why you should you look for what scholarships you qualify for and what grants you can get to minimize what loan you need

[deep mural]

alright, thanks for the advice

should I try to get a job for an indie game company aswell while im in school? or will i not have any luck because it would only be parttime.

[modern crown]

I would always be making games/art but look for internships over the summer while you are in school

[granite solar]

I'm in the states as well and went to a local college in my home town. Total debt is roughly $50k in student loans after 5 years. All though I did pay approx $10k out of pocket over those 5 years, so a total around $60k debt if it was all student loans. Federal student loans are (usually) deferred till 6 months after you cease to be a full-time student (so you don't have to start paying them back until 6 months after you graduate, go to part-time enrollment, withdraw, etc.)

And if you can find a job making games while you're in college, absolutely go for it if that's the reason you're going. Never to early to start building experience.

[modern relic]

How do you self-regulate yourself while working? Like in terms of breaks and starting/finishing? I'm having a lot of trouble setting these boundaries for myself. Since I'm remote I'm in the same environment I relax and do my own stuff in so sometimes while I'm working, I'll just sort of zone out or get side tracked for a few hours, or I won't take any sort of break, or I'll end up working for 12 hours

[brave forge]

Re breaks: I use something called WorkRave, its a free download, been around for years. I disable the "micro breaks" and just use it for a 30-40 minute break timer. Locks your computer for 2 minutes and gives you some stretchs and exercises to do, reminds you to get some water etc.

In terms of staying on task, do you use your personal pc or a work provided machine?

if it's a personal PC, i setup a work profile, and log out of my normal profile, so steam, etc isn't logged in under the work profile. Any other useless distractions are similarly not logged in. Turn off as many alerts and notifications as possible.

[modern relic]

Oh very nice. Just like another user account on windows?

[brave forge]

yep

it's enough of a barrier that you can't just alt tab to your own thing. Keeps you honest

[main token]

Fellow Michigander, check out gamedev.msu.edu for information on what their program entails. They offer a fantastic game dev degree and several focused minors as well as sponsorship of a couple of Coursera programs. As much as I prefer the maize and blue for almost everything else, the Spartans have them beat here. Reach out to their Financial Aid office and start applying for every scholarship and grant you can find for help.

[deep mural]

Thanks for the info, how do Financial Aid Offices work? Also would I apply right now as a junior?

@main token Forgot to tag

[main token]

if you are still in high school, your guidance counselor should be able to help get you started.

[deep mural]

Okay, also I heard msu was hard to get in, is this true?

covid really messed up my freshman grades but idk

[main token]

I'm not sure. Again, reach out to your guidance counselor and make a plan to get in if you decide to try for it.

[deep mural]

alright

thanks for the advice

[modern crown]

Go Blue!!

[main token]

Always

[deep mural]

Also would gamedev.msu.edu actually be good for me? I am planning to go the C++ Unreal Engine route

[main token]

the programming requirements for the development focus include a c++ course. this program doesn't seem to focus on any one engine but elects to teach the fundamentals of design and development. those foundational skills can be applied to any engine or development environment.

you should also be able to fill several electives with c++ stuff if you'd like

[deep mural]

i see, thank you for the information

[ripe lion]

Hey everyone!

I need some help:
I started learning 3D in February and I am rushing myself to learn as much as I can (several courses) and join a game company (now I need to find a job, I spent all my reserves to learn it because its my childhood dream). Said that, i need critique into my art. You can rush me, say everything you believe could improve. 90% of my work is on sketchfab so you can check the UV,s, tris and other technical things.

If youre still reading, I'm also working on my resume, so if you have any advice please reach me out. I appreciate.

Here's my portfolio: https://www.artstation.com/karollinemac

[chilly sundial]

For me it is a yearly cost of 9250, paid in 3 instalments. My student finance handles this bit though, and I only have to start paying it off once I complete my course

[deep mural]

That's not as bad, do they force you to pay a certain amount? Does it depend how much you make? Also, what college did you go to if you don't mind answering?

[chilly sundial]

I go to Sheffield Hallam University, and I study Computer Science for Games. So its more the fundamentals behind things like engines, but also general software dev stuff too.
For a salary of about £22k I will have to repay £14 per month, and that goes up the more you earn, £36 per month at £25k, £74 per month at £30k etc. If I drop below this salary I don't have to repay anything, and the debt is scrapped after ?30? years. This may all be different stateside of course, but this is just my experience studying as a citizen of the UK

[deep mural]

Alright, thanks

It's probably like that in the us too then

[chilly sundial]

So far though it does seem somewhat similar. My "Careers Team" which sounds quite similar to a guidance counsellor made things quite easy, and covered application and interview etc.
From there it was just deciding what university to go to. I also advise you speak to them, as they are going to be extremely knowledgeable for your specific circumstance. Me across the pond however, cannot be so specific.

[deep mural]

Sounds great, I've already emailed them about it so hopefully I can talk to them this Friday

In a 1to1

[chilly sundial]

Nice, hopefully that should address most of your questions. Also I agree with the scholarship thing. Go for anything you can get that won't put you in massive debt. Note I am not a financial advisor, but do know the extra money I was able to get, certainly helped with some aspects of my study last year.

[deep mural]

Alright thanks

[opaque aurora]

You should probably check out #instructions

[pastel estuary]

@mental sleet ^^

[flint ruin]

Hi, I wanted to know if there's any online school that focusses on 3D animation programming (like making locomotion systems), but in a really advanced way like the ones from the advanced locomotion system or the new lyra game, I've learned a lot just by watching the bp but there's only so much I can improve in my own, and I want to get better in that area but nearly all programming courses I've seen cover it barely or not at all. Thanks in advance to any help related to that.

[blazing bobcat]

i envy people who work in the game industry 😄

i made some pretty lazy decisions in my academic life now i'm working in a totally unrelated sector from what I actually wanted

anyway i'm still trying to improve myself in programming when i have time, probably still not too late at 24 years old

[shrewd geyser]

24 years old is absolutely not too late!

[plucky hatch]

Well you often don't need any academic qualifications to work in development and certainly not in design for the game/real time industry.
24 is also nothing, many people are still studying at that age anyway. I am sure it will be fine you just need to practice more.

[cinder nimbus]

I’m knocking on the doorstep of 25 myself and I’m just about to finish my degree for game development, but I still have a lot to work on. I need to boost my portfolio and learn a lot of skills that my school has, unfortunately, not taught me. But 24 is absolutely never too late to teach yourself game development.

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, I was 28 when I started in the industry having worked in completely different field before then.

[cinder nimbus]

That’s awesome. I feel like I’m also going to be on that path where I won’t break in for a few more years, but I have a stable job in a different industry that I can stay in for now, and once I finish my degree after this semester, I can go nose down in learning what I want to learn in my free time. I’ve even come up with a challenge for myself for all of 2023 that I am going to try and document on a YouTube series.