🔧│keyboard_modding

[fresh citrus]

yeah i do have a few screwdriver sets and whatnot

just no screws

[tawdry tree]

Do they not have m2x5 with philips? They’re a lot more common

flat head a pain when they’re so tiny

[paper bloom]

Not rlly

So long as u got the screw set n a thin

Drover

Driver*

Ur good to go

[tawdry tree]

Def, phillips are a lot easier to find and screw in/out.

flat heads are like plugging in a usb

gotta flip it 24 times for it to fit

😂😂

[paper bloom]

For my side na

The cheapest i found was a mechatronics store

For a box of like 2*5

[languid forge]

yaya

[fresh citrus]

would a m2x6mm screw also work or would that be too big for a 2he, the faq seems to say its fine

[regal nest]

ive watched a couple more videos and im about to order the geons. did you personally use them already? did you try hand-lubing them? did it improve the sound?

[glacial wind]

yeah i have them and jades. I bag lubed my springs and spread the lube a bit more when I was opening them up to get the springs - but it's a minor difference

they're fine stock if you don't want to do anything

[tawdry tree]

easier to find/align the driver into the head*

[tawdry tree]

Would be fine, even preferred depending on your o rings

[paper bloom]

U legit cant find philips screws here

Unless u find those DIY stores

[fresh citrus]

thank you bro, i cant find any screws locally that i can buy in person apart from m2 x 6mm for this mod lol

[tawdry tree]

where the f u from bro?! 😂😂

[fresh citrus]

and for o rings i found some random ass 225 piece kit hahaha

[paper bloom]

Singapore

Yhey legit

Dont sell them

LOL

[tawdry tree]

amazon? aliexpress?

[glacial wind]

ikea

[fresh citrus]

i wanted to be able to get them in person

[tawdry tree]

bro whattt

[fresh citrus]

so i dotn ahve to wait for shipping

[tawdry tree]

oh ic

[fresh citrus]

so im just gonna drive and pick them up tomorrow

https://www.bunnings.com.au/syneco-3-22mm-o-rings-assorted-set-225-pieces_p0328987

i saw on some other site that dropships the same thing that it has teh ones i need lol

[tawdry tree]

button head right?

[paper bloom]

Hopefully they do

[tawdry tree]

yeah will be fine with 6mm

[paper bloom]

Yeah LPL

LOL*

[fresh citrus]

https://www.altronics.com.au/p/h3101-m2-x-6mm-pan-pozi-nickel-bolt-pk-8/

i was looking at that one since i dont have to drive very far

should be good

[tawdry tree]

yeah, good.

[glacial wind]

ikea definitely sells tool kits. Could always just amazon sg it too

[fresh citrus]

i should be set then woot

[tawdry tree]

ikea has m2 screws?

[fresh citrus]

i saw the burger mod video from wooting and was like how thats a huge difference

[fresh citrus]

damn for real lol

no way they got the o rings but hahah

[tawdry tree]

i never seen m2 screws at ikea

but maybe new

[fresh citrus]

tbf i havent been in ikea for anything but chairs

[paper bloom]

Either way it is done now ive gotten a mechatronics store in shopee to settle the issue

[regal nest]

ill prolly just play around with hand lubing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79RcRFiSKm0 in this video he suggested to lube a specific part to make the top out sound a bit better, think ill aim for that (and do the spring lubing as you did as well). since its my first time playing around with switches, in your experience do switches break easily? i guess the question is whether theres a rule of thumb, like order 20% more than you need or something.

[paper bloom]

Man i keep loosing ranked games today ig todays not my day

[fresh citrus]

wat game

[tawdry tree]

yeah same tbh

[paper bloom]

Siege and val

[glacial wind]

keep in mind this video is also pre-extra lube being added by geon because that video is pre-release version of the switches

[fresh citrus]

rip

[tawdry tree]

my ikea doesn’t have them

[paper bloom]

I got their cup holder and their mat protectors

LOL

[fresh citrus]

hahahaha

[paper bloom]

Pretty useful

[fresh citrus]

i didnt think finding o rings was going to be so hard

[paper bloom]

Eh it happens when youre fresh into it sometimes or have that momentum

[fresh citrus]

i had to spend like over an hour searching everywhere

[fresh citrus]

yeah i feel that with cs2

[glacial wind]

generally though rule of thumb is you just order a few extra. So for example for 60he people order 65 switches, for 80he people order 90 etc

[paper bloom]

Yea

[untold wigeon]

I just did the springs with mine. Factory lube is enough.

Raw.

[tawdry tree]

why do you want to pick them up and not order them?

prob cheaper and easier to order

[fresh citrus]

because my keyboard arrives tomorrow after a week of shipping

[regal nest]

ok! thanks for the quick answers 🙂

[fresh citrus]

and i didnt order the screws and stuff for the mods already

[tawdry tree]

ah.

[fresh citrus]

and i wanna just do the keycaps and burger mod and tape mod all at once

[tawdry tree]

there’s no rush tho bro

[fresh citrus]

so i dont have to open it up again

man

[tawdry tree]

😂😂

[stone flax]

try the board stock

[fresh citrus]

rn im using a razer blackwidow 2013 expert

[stone flax]

You will open that board again

Play around with it

[fresh citrus]

so like

[tawdry tree]

100%

[fresh citrus]

it is gross

[fresh citrus]

im hoping i dont have to but probably bahaha

[untold wigeon]

If I had a nickel for every time I didn’t want to open my keeb again, I’d have a shitload of Nickles

[fresh citrus]

i got some ducky pudding keycaps ready to go on as well

[tawdry tree]

stock will be an insane upgrade already

[regal nest]

thanks for the sample, ill keep that in mind!

[stone flax]

Sorry to say but you are not going to he as happy as you can with that board given your first config

Chasing sound from predictions is pretty fruitless

[fresh citrus]

i mean im going from a 10+ year old keyboard

from videos im just gonna do this basic stuff and go for it haha

[stone flax]

Who’s to say youll prefer burget mount/tape tho?

[fresh citrus]

that is true

[stone flax]

Im saying its preference

[fresh citrus]

but ill play around with it for a bit

[stone flax]

Preference based things aren’t objectively better

[fresh citrus]

before i rip the board out

i dont mind the sound of my blues

but i do really like the sound of "thock"

from videos

[strong dome]

what plate material do you guys recommend

[untold wigeon]

The majority of the mods I did chasing sound I saw in videos are no longer on my board. lol

[fresh citrus]

which ones did u regret haha

im not gonna bother changing switches for sure

probably not gonna bother with stabs either

[stone flax]

as someone who did 3 layers tape, o-rings on standoffs, polyfill, bandaid on stabs, i can say a simple switch change, and use of plate silicone has done the most for me in the current board

[stone flax]

Too bad then

I will honestly say thats the one non preference thing here

[untold wigeon]

Tape mod, case foam, holee mod ect

[fresh citrus]

tape mod make it too loud or smth?

[fresh citrus]

yeah i see alot of people going on about the gateron jades

[stone flax]

like someone doing burger/tape mod to a stock wooting will imo do less of a difference than just swapping over to raws LOL

[untold wigeon]

Ironically that’s the one mod that can make the most noticeable and satisfying differences

[stone flax]

raws>>>>>>>

[stone flax]

unironically

he is so carried by switches for type feel its crazy

inverse of mx

[untold wigeon]

Ironically in the sense that he doesn’t want to do it

[stone flax]

ahh fair

[fresh citrus]

hmmm ... https://cafege.com.au/products/gateron-raw-linears

[stone flax]

No

[untold wigeon]

No

[stone flax]

Geon raw he

[fresh citrus]

ahhh

[stone flax]

raws sound guuuud

[fresh citrus]

mm i see

yeah they do

[stone flax]

its actually an insane diff

lemme see if i can find a raptors sound test

Raptors ^ which would be more akin to lekkers

[fresh citrus]

the raws sound alot better

imo

[stone flax]

exactly

[fresh citrus]

i got the 2he coming

so thats like

how many packs lol

[stone flax]

Are you US?

[fresh citrus]

ansi layout yeah

[untold wigeon]

#1 dash #2 Raws

[stone flax]

6 or 7

6x18=108

but u might want spares

on divinikey

[fresh citrus]

mmm yeah incase i break them somehow farout

hahaha

[fresh citrus]

raws again sound better to me

man if i got these i still dunno what id do in regards to bottom out force haha

paralysis by analysis for real

[untold wigeon]

Swap the springs

[stone flax]

whats ur current switch

id say 50 but

[fresh citrus]

cherry mx blue

[stone flax]

what are you used to

mx blues bottom out at like 60 something

but the bump kinda eases into that

[fresh citrus]

hmm so probably 50 then

[stone flax]

Or forces lol

i’d

say

Are you comfortable bottoming out a lot?

Or do you just go over the bump

[fresh citrus]

i usually bottom out when i type

i type pretty hard i guess? man i dont know what im even looking for in terms of feel

[stone flax]

hm yeah

50 or 60 then

[fresh citrus]

sound is much easier to quantify from videos

[calm pulsar]

I wonder how a nickel plate would sound

[fresh citrus]

109.80 aud to buy 108 switches... do i...

are the gateron x lekkers really that bad

hahaha

[stone flax]

just wait for a vendor to carry

[fresh citrus]

shipping always killing me in australia

[stone flax]

Is divinikey bad

Probably right

I think cafege will stock

[fresh citrus]

divini key was like $50usd shipping

[stone flax]

whos the cafege person

[fresh citrus]

no idea lol

[stone flax]

@cafege

[calm pulsar]

@cyan zodiac

[untold wigeon]

Probably pingy

[stone flax]

@cyan zodiac raw he stock soon ? sorry for tagging u

@fresh citrus u can wait right

[fresh citrus]

yeah ofc

[stone flax]

then yeah wait for raws

[fresh citrus]

oh wtf

cafege warehouse is like

15 minute drive

lmao

huhhh

thats actually cool lol

[stone flax]

[regal nest]

got the same shipping to germany

[fresh citrus]

yeah thats rough

[stone flax]

its the same all around tbh

[tawdry tree]

@cyan zodiac those Gateron Orange switches are KS-20U, not the KS-20 Orange switches.

[stone flax]

its like a 2 day wait from korea

😭

[fresh citrus]

i already paid $360 aud for the keeb, wrist rest and shipping

[tawdry tree]

Wait for DeltaKey to restock

[fresh citrus]

its hard to want to keep forking up big money for shipping hahaha

[dapper hazel]

i saw them on aliex the other day

[regal nest]

i mean it is what it is. everything about this custom keyboard stuff is expensive. my 80he + keycaps + zinc case + switches will cost me around 550€ 😢

[dapper hazel]

might help with shipping cost

[calm pulsar]

raws on aliexpress????

[regal nest]

is there an eta? cause cba worrying and checking sites all the time

i checked all the partner sites in europe and only 1 had them listed - sold

[dapper hazel]

i think so

i mean aliex is just a platform… kbdfans etc is on there so probably some shop selling them

[calm pulsar]

I can't seem to find any, and I haven't been able for some time so I ordered from the korean local store

[tawdry tree]

prob the raptors?

[dapper hazel]

oh wait i think i saw raptors

[tawdry tree]

I don’t know

[dapper hazel]

yeah was about to write haha

what’s the difference aside the color?

[calm pulsar]

yeah I thought so 😄 cause I think geon mainly sells on his own due to the popularity of the switch

[calm pulsar]

raws are semi-closed bottom, so similar to jades but better

[dapper hazel]

he sells via other shops too though

so same as with raptors it wouldn’t be surprising

[stone flax]

molds travel distance bottom housing being semi closed

[calm pulsar]

only divinikey for raws specifcially it seems

[stone flax]

literally two different switches

Practically

[dapper hazel]

different weight and bottom closed?

[stone flax]

semi-closed

Tolerances

[calm pulsar]

the tolerances are better probs on raws

[stone flax]

so much

[dapper hazel]

which gateron model are they?

[stone flax]

not a gateron switch

[dapper hazel]

they’re gateron switches

[calm pulsar]

these are designed by Geon, not gateron

[stone flax]

no theyre not

[calm pulsar]

Geon is a designer of keyboard stuff from korea

[stone flax]

and manufacturers of them are graingold

[glacial wind]

Keep in mind it’s like midnight in Australia btw

[dapper hazel]

i know, he’s using my products haha

[dapper hazel]

the what?

[glacial wind]

So not sure if you want to be tagging them lol

[stone flax]

graingold

my goat

fuck gateron

Sory @glacial wind

[glacial wind]

Lol

[calm pulsar]

lol I mean gateron aint super bad, just too massive for any nuanced changes that some ppl may want

[strong dome]

POM or PC?

[stone flax]

i think u should get pre

[strong dome]

pre?

[stone flax]

preference 😆

[tawdry tree]

😂

[regal nest]

can you guys suggest sites in europe for artisan keycaps / metal keycaps. wanted to buy a few accent ones and only etsy came to mind

[stone flax]

do not get from etsy

ur not buying from some cool “awesome artisnal handcrafter” 95% of the time

its resold aliexpress shit lol

[cyan zodiac]

Yes soonish

[dapper hazel]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e5af256556661723b861bd1/t/65348e79e59d651def027273/1697943165186/东莞禾金电子公司简介2020+EN.pdf

i see, just a new player

[stone flax]

my goats

[cyan zodiac]

I'll fix up

[cyan zodiac]

[stone flax]

they keeping gateron in check

[devout totem]

Anyone have a discount code for Raw HE switches? Cost with shipping it's about the same price as the Jade Pro

[fresh citrus]

legend

[regal nest]

can you suggest another place?

[stone flax]

where buying from

[fresh citrus]

crazy ur warehouse is 10 mins from me

lol

[stone flax]

vendors

[devout totem]

USA

[stone flax]

on divinikey ur checking from?

[cyan zodiac]

It is 40 mins for me

[tawdry tree]

USA selling Raw HEs!!

[tawdry tree]

prob from geon directly

[fresh citrus]

ahahaha

[devout totem]

Geon direct

[regal nest]

if someone else asks.

[tawdry tree]

divini shouldn’t be that expensive

[hearty robin]

price?

[tawdry tree]

My guy

[regal nest]

guess ill wait then. thats at least 20€ cheaper and wooting wont be here for another couple months.

[tawdry tree]

Yeah

[fresh citrus]

do you know what price it would be roughly for 115 keys? direct from geon would cost me around 115 aud

[devout totem]

Ok how about a discount code for divinikey?

[hearty robin]

All yall newbies

Look at my keyboard

[fresh citrus]

yessir

[stone flax]

no

[tawdry tree]

https://tenor.com/view/chisme-rattlesnake-tail-rattle-gif-4826045

[devout totem]

That's didnt work

[stone flax]

of what

[broken cape]

dear god what is this

[tawdry tree]

lol

[stone flax]

there is no divinikey code anymore

[hearty robin]

keyboard total

[hearty robin]

my only keyboard

[stone flax]

msrp is disgustingly high but i got it for lower

[devout totem]

That's too bad...I guess jade pro it is

[stone flax]

Get raws

raws better

[hearty robin]

how much

[stone flax]

msrp?

[broken cape]

even 20$ can get you something that sounds an feels better than this xd

[hearty robin]

i can get something 60-100 usd

please send reccomendations

[broken cape]

I'm still waiting for switches, but I'm currently building around a Sharkoon board for my gf

they have pre-builts too

affordable stuff

[tawdry tree]

Give it 2 months and Jade Pros will be the same price as regular jades now.

[hearty robin]

can you build me a board

i will meow for you

for 12 months

every day

[broken cape]

uhmm

[hearty robin]

ye

[stone flax]

$590… msrp, you should look towards aftermarket and sales

[hearty robin]

holy

shit

ok

[stone flax]

u can build a real nice wooting sub 250

[broken cape]

https://en.sharkoon.com/product/39197
I'll just link you with this, they also have other layouts

[stone flax]

For a regular or he board?

[south swallow]

Has anyone here used 99% ISO on the pcba? Looking to clean off lubricant and don’t know if it’s a good idea or not to use?

[devout totem]

There's about $15 difference wetween regular and jade pro for 110pcs

[stone flax]

doesnt really matter when difference is marginal and both are worse than raws

[tawdry tree]

From Gateron directly maybe but Jades are sold for $40-50 on AliExpress.

[broken cape]

isoprop should be fine, I'd say

[hearty robin]

yeah

[tawdry tree]

“yeah”

[stone flax]

yeah….?

[hearty robin]

i just need a nice, fast responsive keyboard

[stone flax]

what

[hearty robin]

i can do all the modding myself

[stone flax]

mx or he

😭

[hearty robin]

uhh

idc

[stone flax]

???

bro

[south swallow]

Appreciate it thank you!

[tawdry tree]

do you want a keyboard for gaming?

[stone flax]

Do you want stuff like analogue, rt, baked in socd, etc?

Or just a board

that isnt slow

[devout totem]

That's what I use to clean pcb

[broken cape]

i used 94% ethanol to clean a PCB, that was fine too XD

[south swallow]

Thought so, just seen people recommend a lower %? I use 99% on pc components just don’t want to strip the pcba by any means :)

[tawdry tree]

Wipe it off with a towel. Switch lube doesn’t dissolve so it’ll be more like smearing.

[hearty robin]

sorry i dont know shit about keyboards

like did you look at mine

[tawdry tree]

The bigger blobs.

[hearty robin]

ive only ever touched mx browns and blues

[south swallow]

Will do this beforehand, thank you also !

[stone flax]

Do you know what hall effect boards have in functionality

like in heneral

General

[south swallow]

Just switching out these stabs, and I over-lubed the last pair

[tawdry tree]

If you want HE, you can get a solid true 8KHz, RT, DKS, etc board for around $60 called the Raven68

If you want MX you can get a solid board for like $30-40

[devout totem]

That's fine nothing will get strip. You can even use automatic diswasher to clean pcbs

[stone flax]

fire68 also fire

on drizzy

[tawdry tree]

Yeah, same board basically.

[stone flax]

i love china

[tawdry tree]

Same

[south swallow]

Lmfao what?? I saw a vid on the YouTube but hadn’t watched it yet, can you actually put it in a dishwasher? 😭

[stone flax]

erm…..

Define solid

[tawdry tree]

Competitive as shit

[tawdry tree]

like decent, especially when you are planning to mod it anyway

[stone flax]

i mean whats at that price point? Soldered keychron c series

😭

[sick venture]

Yea but warranty voids and it may break, it didn’t on him

[hearty robin]

danm that sounds nice

[devout totem]

As long as the components in the board can be ultrasonically cleaned, you can use a dishwasher. If it has electrolytic caps, don't do it

[tawdry tree]

The switches are better on the Raven than on the Fire (non pro) but you can get whichever one is cheaper at the time.

[sick venture]

Just don’t do it lmfao

[tawdry tree]

Pcb in an ultrasonic cleaner is diabolical

or dishwasher

it can be fine sure

[devout totem]

Been doing it for years on boards that don't fit the ultrasonic bath

[tawdry tree]

def not recommended tho

[south swallow]

Yeah I probably won’t do it myself, can’t bare the pain on my mind, thinking about if my board breaks 😭

Good to know that it can be done though :p

[devout totem]

Best way to clean nasty keyboards

[tawdry tree]

At some point all components are bound to fall off right?!

[south swallow]

Mine could never be that bad 😭

[sick venture]

At that point of debris it would take me years, i would just buy the latest stuff lol

Just say it’s time to upgrade

[devout totem]

Not if they're soldered right

[stone flax]

cheap 60ish dollar fire68(pro)/raven68, buncha gtech on sale in amazon, made68 pro kickstarter for he. As for mx get a keychron or a nice starter kit if u want to venture into the hobby, transition lite and classic tkl are both interesting looking injected %80’s that look fun to build and dont have meme flexcuts/6 layers of foam. Both on qmk and can use via

[tawdry tree]

That’s a big assumption, I wouldn’t but what works for you works for you.

[fresh citrus]

@stone flax https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gx6wjqEtUs oh wow

the raptors are cheap on cafefe rn...

6.50 for 10...

i am worried about the red messing with rgb tho

[stone flax]

yeah this was a pretty old frankenswitch for wobble imrpovement

raws still win icl

[fresh citrus]

since im gonna use pudding caps

[devout totem]

It's an industry standard to use ultrasonic bath to clean pcbs

[fresh citrus]

double the price but yeah true

[stone flax]

untrue

as ive said

[glacial wind]

that stem swap also causes artificial tightness feeling

[stone flax]

had a guy report to me that after break in it got better

which makes sense

still pretty jank and unnecessary in this day and age

[glacial wind]

yeah it does slowly get better, but I don't love it still

[tawdry tree]

it def does

[glacial wind]

really janky and I still prefer my raws anyday to my stem swapped raptors

[fresh citrus]

idk if i should just bite the bullet

[glacial wind]

i mean what are you worried about with raws?

[fresh citrus]

and go fuckit and get it off geon.works or wait for cafefe

[tawdry tree]

unhealthy for your teeth

[stone flax]

Can u wait for two weeks?

[fresh citrus]

nothing just thinking about pricing and availability

[glacial wind]

it's just 2 weeks, I'd just wait unless there's a specific reason you need them right away

[fresh citrus]

ye but idk how much cafefe is gonna charge because if its not 10aud/10 it works out cheaper to just buy them now even with shipping i think

[tawdry tree]

it’ll be cheaper

[stone flax]

It will be cheaper

[tawdry tree]

wouldn’t make senseotherwise

[fresh citrus]

mmm yeah

[regal nest]

are you guys gonna swap out the stabs on the 80he?

[fresh citrus]

if they're 8.50 like the raptors it would be worth ye

[tawdry tree]

nahh

[glacial wind]

nope.

[fresh citrus]

wym nah

[glacial wind]

why spend money on worse switches?

[tawdry tree]

Raptors are basically Lekkers

[fresh citrus]

as in if they're priced the same

not that i want the raptors

[tawdry tree]

tolerances aren’t great at all

[fresh citrus]

they're both geons

[tawdry tree]

Prob will

[glacial wind]

stock raptors are lekkers with a tad bit less chatter sound, but still not fully tight stems

[glacial wind]

raptors are what geon released first, took feedback on then put all the feedback into raw he

aka they're the bad version that you don't want to buy anymore

[fresh citrus]

yeah

[stone flax]

No

[glacial wind]

there's not much reason to buy raptors now

[fresh citrus]

i just dont know what cafefe will charge for the raws

im not saying im getting the raptors

[glacial wind]

it'll be less than geon directly

as it always is for every reseller locally

[polar girder]

Except nylon top housing

[tawdry tree]

Black Knights are Raptors with better tolerances. Similar sound profile.

[tawdry tree]

It’s a myth man

[polar girder]

Stem swapped raptors sound is still goated

The friction is a little much tho

[fresh citrus]

ahaha

[tawdry tree]

they were good when they were the only players in town

all other tolerances were shit

[fresh citrus]

i spawned this giant thread from posting one link

[tawdry tree]

sound as well

[fresh citrus]

hahaha

[polar girder]

There’s no other switch that sounds like stem swapped raptors

[fresh citrus]

i get it guys avoid the raptors

🤣

[polar girder]

Idk what you guys are talking about

I’m not recommending them

[tawdry tree]

yeah

[polar girder]

They’re finicky and I wouldn’t recommend them. But their sound profile is the best for HE IMO

just need a better option lol

Black knights are ok but not it

[tawdry tree]

HE can be any sound profile, it’s just that switch option are yet vast

how many different switches are we at now? Like 60?

[glacial wind]

https://tenor.com/view/ross-geller-gif-26751636

[tawdry tree]

not counting recolors like 30

😂

[polar girder]

I want low and quiet

[fresh citrus]

i wish i could throw money at my screen and get the raws right away

[polar girder]

Bunch of clack elitists in the chat lol

[fresh citrus]

and just get rid of the lekkers hahaha

[tawdry tree]

chad silence enjoyers

holy

[glacial wind]

geon raw he is about commitment to the right path. There is no diversions

[fresh citrus]

you've convinced me

[tawdry tree]

https://tenor.com/view/the-sound-of-silence-simon-and-garfunkel-60s-music-paul-art-folk-music-gif-19907543

[fresh citrus]

joining this discord was a bad idea, gonna spend so much extra money hahahha

[tawdry tree]

only right path!!

[polar girder]

Bro it’s toxic

[tawdry tree]

song goes hard as well

[fresh citrus]

deadass

[stone flax]

You can take any board board and kill the sound to get a singular thock, but making a high pitched board sound good and clean? thats the real challenge and why clack js the real mans game

[tawdry tree]

Thock is not silence

It’s deep sure but not silent

[stone flax]

thock is muted and foam sound

nothing else

😡

[tawdry tree]

I haven’t heard a perfect silent board yet

[fresh citrus]

im still using blues

[stone flax]

get an ec board

[fresh citrus]

so anything is an improvement

[polar girder]

Why you would want a loud and high pitched sound for typing is beyond me lol

[stone flax]

rubrahhh domeeehhh

[fresh citrus]

i used to like my mx blues but it got more and more annoying over time esp since i use open back headphones

like goddamn these are loud

[tawdry tree]

to get an audible confirmation that you pressed a key, that 1000 or so times a minute

[polar girder]

lol yeah I don’t want to hear my shit like that

[tawdry tree]

also to let everyone else know you are typing

[stone flax]

Trying to get thock in mx and he is just foam cope anyways, get topre for real thock https://youtu.be/t5KjShVuKMM?feature=shared

[tawdry tree]

like a territorial thing

😂

[glacial wind]

it's about asserting sound dominance over your space, much like going to the urinal and dropping pants to ankle to assert dominance over the urinal

[tawdry tree]

LMAO I WAS JOKINGGG

[fresh citrus]

fair

i mean if someone does that

ill stay away for sure

[polar girder]

Yes similar to there being 6 open urinals and making sure to choose the one right next to the other dude

[tawdry tree]

😂😂😂😂😂

[fresh citrus]

so uh desired effect achieved?

[stone flax]

get aged domes

[polar girder]

I don’t even know what those are lol

[stone flax]

atleast experience real thock if u wanna be a praiser of it

not no fake thock

[polar girder]

I just want a silent fucking board with low tone sound

[stone flax]

https://youtu.be/-9CK2SNtE0U?feature=shared

And ive been saying

rubrahh domeehh

mx thock is fake

[glacial wind]

that's like going to the urinal and seeing an empty space next to someone but you choose to use the stall

[polar girder]

Jesus lol

Just let me piss in peace

[stone flax]

no

piss in real thock

[fresh citrus]

why not just go the extra mile and piss in the hand dryer

[stone flax]

foamboards arent thock

[tawdry tree]

the more silent boards get, the less clean the sound. I don’t want that

[fresh citrus]

on the paper towel dispenser

[polar girder]

Yeah that board sounds like a membrane or something

It’s neat sound but idk if I love it

[cyan zodiac]

i'm not too sure

[tawdry tree]

Silent being so difficult makes me want it even more man

[glacial wind]

we're not savages. If you must use the stall at least aim for the deepest part of the water to increase the sound made

[fresh citrus]

i guess ill check back in a few weeks and see how it goes

[fresh citrus]

ok hear me out

ceiling fan

if there is one

[tawdry tree]

Clack is a subtle showcase of dominance. Clicky Jades are on a different level

[fresh citrus]

what about mx blues

where do they stand

[stone elbow]

Bro would pee in anything but a urinal or bowl

[tawdry tree]

Clicky Jades > Blues by a long shot

[polar girder]

lol

[cyan zodiac]

oh idk how soon is soon

[tawdry tree]

Jades are so fucking loud with a click leaf

[fresh citrus]

for the lols

[cyan zodiac]

last time i talked to boss he said he gonna order

but idk about shipping

[fresh citrus]

oh im not super in a rush

[cyan zodiac]

ic

[fresh citrus]

but i wouldnt pay shipping coz i could just pick it up from the warehouse

[stone flax]

Then u refuse to get real thock then

[fresh citrus]

from ur store

[stone flax]

Cant take u serious

[fresh citrus]

so thats ez

[tawdry tree]

Silent isn’t THOCK!

[polar girder]

Yeah I’m not really concerned with what you think bro

[cyan zodiac]

true

[polar girder]

All good

[stone flax]

This isnt silent https://youtu.be/U5HZnY6j4Qc?feature=shared

[fresh citrus]

yee well either way we'll see what happens ahaha

[tawdry tree]

😂😂😂😂😂

[stone flax]

Haters would rather attain hipyotech sound rather than topruhh

[cyan zodiac]

but yeah i had a talk with the boss last friday and he said it made an order

[fresh citrus]

Hectic as

[tawdry tree]

yowzers is insane

[polar girder]

That entire meme is insane

[stone flax]

this gives me life https://youtu.be/3c0VUAuI0j4?feature=shared

[polar girder]

Creamy pop lol

[stone flax]

And this kills me https://youtu.be/tTxIY2iTCCY?feature=shared

[polar girder]

This is an instant headache

Tf lol

[stone flax]

[uneven cradle]

Looks like I'll be getting raw HE switches soon

[stone flax]

ik what u did

[cyan zodiac]

[polar girder]

Yeah see bro you’re in too deep

These memes are too fried for me lol

[stone flax]

im sorry idk ur game

ill do 6 layer tape mod and polyfilll and switch back to open bottoms for that thockimus prime build

[polar girder]

I’m just not a keyboard nerd. I’m just a 60HE tryhard trying to make his keyboard look and sound good to his own personal preference.

I don’t mess with all these other things you keep talking about lol

Idk what rubber topruhh even means

[stone flax]

rubber domes

what thock actually is

[polar girder]

If it’s not Wooting compatible it’s not on my radar lol

lol bro

I YouTube’s best rubber dome switch

And that’s my first result

[uneven cradle]

[stone flax]

fake

Cope hipyo propaganda

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvBh4qahJxlKH44tUgWn-_GaEoSLvSG53&feature=shared

[polar girder]

Why topre have so much extra clicky going on tho

Yeah I don’t love that

[languid kestrel]

silent topres are amazing but the boards themselves they come on kinda suck and the stabilizers are ass too

[stone flax]

they need love and work and time

Cant just do 19 layers of tape mod and steal ur moms yoga mat for thock

[polar girder]

Tape mod is overrated

Only “mod” I have rn is kilmat in the bottom of the case lol

[tawdry tree]

this is as close as can be (stabs are fixable obv) https://youtube.com/shorts/wkH7GjWhUjs?si=jcXu2gNEhypTy1D4

AC prob helps as well 😂😂

[fresh citrus]

6 layer...

[fresh citrus]

19!

forget the keyboard

and keycaps

just tape the whole thing

tapeboard

[polar girder]

Yoooo

[wintry rune]

i installed gateron magnetic jade switches with led window facing north for my 60HE, and then i installed cherry profile keycaps, is that going to make a problem in using the keyboard or is it just visual effect?

[polar girder]

Even rocking SA

[ionic breach]

[polar girder]

I see no problem here.

That’s like everything normal

[wintry rune]

Thank you soo much for the fast reply 🫡

one more question if possible, i swapped to Tofu60 redux, is using the same wooting USB-C cable going to give me any issue with the USB-C port, i tried to align the port as perfect as possible but when i adjust the position of the keyboard it sometimes disconnect and reconnect again

[untold wigeon]

ID and OD for burger mount o rings please

[tawdry tree]

ID 1, OD 3

you can get away with 2 - 4 as well

[tawdry tree]

I have seen a few people have this issue but I don’t know the cause. Did you align the movable port of the Tofu?

[wintry rune]

yes i made sure that it is align to the "w" writing in the case and also made sure that it is visually aligned

[tawdry tree]

That’s good, is the board all the way to the top in the case if you know what I mean?

The Module as close to the top of the case as possible

[fluid ravine]

Very

[wintry rune]

yes i think so, the screws wouldn't go in if it was not pushed all the way in, i will try to check it again

[tawdry tree]

I would unscrew all screws a little so the PCB can move a bit, then push it up and screw it down again.

Helps easily align without having to redo the screws

[stone flax]

No interference here 😃

I NEED A SWITCH OPENER

[uneven cradle]

Then get one

[fluid ravine]

its not that easy

[dapper hazel]

tiny screwdriver :)

that’s how i used to open switches pre common switch openers

[stone flax]

is what im doing rn

owie

[wintry rune]

I would try that, thx for the tip ❤️

[untold wigeon]

Ty.

[hearty robin]

I just made a 26.3 gram mouse (movement 60fps wireless

[tawdry tree]

💀💀💀💀💀💀

[ionic breach]

[tawdry tree]

the tape on the bottom makes for a smooth experience I presume? 🤣

[hearty robin]

no, the carbon fiber tops came seperatly in 2 peices so i had to secure it lmao

[tawdry tree]

looks really fucking cursed but if it works it works

A for effort at least.

[shy musk]

Hello, does anyone know how long it approximately takes for the geon raws he to arrive? I got it on their website but there was no approximate shipping date, it just says dhl express worldwide

[ionic breach]

check with dhl tracking?

[hearty robin]

it does im using it rn for val

its crazy

[languid kestrel]

mad max -tier gaming

[worthy epoch]

Yo chat, received some of my keyboard parts. Still no wooting, it passes custom clearance(2nd week😭)

Thanks to everyone who was helping here, especially @fluid ravine

[cyan herald]

is mouse modding talk accepted here?

[tawdry tree]

this is any modding really

even cars lmfao

[ocean widget]

Okay chat its time to mod a airplane any helpfull hands [joke]

[tawdry tree]

gotta get some replacements parts for aliexpress for sure

💀

[ocean widget]

sure sure any recommendations ?

[stone flax]

Kiiboom lubing kit

[worthy epoch]

Was 5$ on ali, instead of 60. Why not, including the fact that shitty plastic and acrylic stations for only 20-30 switches were $8 or more

[stone flax]

[cyan herald]

I'm trying to order a modded mouse from 3ilent and I'm mad confused what I should get 😵‍💫

[worthy epoch]

And this is aluminium

[stone flax]

[daring ridge]

hey yo, just ordered wooting module, does someone have experience with ceramic keycaps by cerakey and sticky rice switches? Do I need to deal with additional mods cause of weight?
PS. Choosing keycaps is hard AF...

[ocean widget]

sticky rice switches are not compatible with wooting pcb

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1103459740186595399/1267494266092130346/image.png?ex=66d5d085&is=66d47f05&hm=d5e157a8972ebd9964dbc22d73f60e64ef86a0f32cc07ea386c03e379e804bdf&

[daring ridge]

wait what?

[stone flax]

V1’s have calibration issues

do not get them

[tawdry tree]

They may or may not work, so they aren’t recommended. Also, why the fuck does everyone get the travel of switches wrong?

They are an open bottom 4.0mm switch.

FYI.

[stone flax]

literally why leave it up to chance tho

shouldnt have to bother with something known for incosistency

[ashen karma]

I don’t see why they aren’t compatible tho

[tawdry tree]

I don’t know if the issue is still or if it was fixed.

I wouldn’t recommend them

[tawdry tree]

their specific magnet strength made the board act up.

[calm pulsar]

just get black knights instead of sticky rice

[stone flax]

magnet strength makes it terrible

[tawdry tree]

or the magnet strengths of them all together.

[stone flax]

board wigs out hard

[ashen karma]

Ahh ok

[daring ridge]

WASTED 😅 Already shipped, ok will figure it out

[tawdry tree]

Try them and let us know!

No waste yet.

[calm pulsar]

black knights are quite cheap fyi

just in case you want to order and return sticky rice later

[daring ridge]

ok, ty

funny how I ended up in this situation. Asked about keycaps, got roasted about switches xD

[cyan herald]

nvm just realized he's closed💔

[ionic breach]

boeing must have a lot of spare parts you can pick from

[cold bloom]

I haven't tried it on max brightness yet but I'm sure it will

[grave plaza]

Does anybody have raptor HEs and raw HEs?

[harsh dove]

Yes

[untold wigeon]

Hello, are they any keycap recommendations that are oil resistant ?

[quiet bay]

naw

but u can get ceramic keycaps i guess

they always shine

😂

[ionic breach]

[stone flax]

Yes

[austere creek]

i mean they are all oil resistant lol

not like the disintegrate

[worthy epoch]

I mean wash yr hands and dont eat chips🙃

[quiet bay]

there is no escaping the shine

!

[calm pulsar]

dirty hands simply speed up the shine, not cause it

[grave plaza]

could you try to frankenswitch the raw bottom housing with the raptor top?

[harsh dove]

Doesn’t work

[grave plaza]

aw

[calm pulsar]

she tolerances on raws are already pretty good

[grave plaza]

I planned to frankenswitch raptor top, raw bottom, with lekker stem, and 22mm spring

guess it wont work sadly

[calm pulsar]

for looks or what?

[grave plaza]

the only problem I have with the raptors is the weird hollow sound that lekkers and raptors have because of the open bottom

also I'm more accustomed to long poles so having shorter travel would be nice

what about jade bottoms with raptor top?

[calm pulsar]

raws are closed bottom and good tolerances on the upper housing/stem, so there's no need for that

you could do jade bottom and black knight housing, but it might be too tight at times

I personally did this and it's super clean sounding, but im waiting for my raws cause they seem to be a bit softer sounding and good tolerances also

[fluid ravine]

ayyyy there we go, nice
Hope you get your wooting soon

[grave plaza]

link to these black knight switches?

[calm pulsar]

https://kprepublic.com/en-de/products/gugu-black-knight-magnetic-switch-linear-for-magnetic-mechanical-keyboard-pc-nylon-pom-55g-pre-lubed-for-wooting-nuphy-rakka?srsltid=AfmBOoqhpOvOdhCqVj5IkWbb7NzvqQxLK6MqWKnyX9T50XeNIo2SmbjY

@grave plaza here's my frankenswitch

[grave plaza]

is that with the silicone switchpad?

sounds really good btw I love the bottom out sound

[calm pulsar]

no, poron plate foam, fr4 plate

jade stem, jade bottom, black knight upper housing

[grave plaza]

can you do a stem wobble test? :3

[calm pulsar]

its nonexistent 😄 let me find the video on here

[calm pulsar]

#🔧│keyboard_modding message

[grave plaza]

the tight stems are a big highlight for me with the raptor + lekker stem

[grave plaza]

yo thats pretty good

[calm pulsar]

yeah its insane in that regard

and the sound is clean even on Tab key, which usually has that hollow rattle

[fluid ravine]

asmr

[calm pulsar]

@grave plaza however, my advice, if you're going to do it:

clean black knight housings from the oil lube before building the switch, because the combination from krytox type of lube on lekker/jade stems and oil on BKs creates more friciton

so you better clean the oil out and if you want, relube everything with krytox, which is what I did and it fixed several switches that were too tight

[stone flax]

raws>>>>>>

[grave plaza]

gonna have to buy a bunch of switches it looks like I kinda wanna experiment

[calm pulsar]

yeah its fun to do, but I'm currently waiting for geon raws, hoping they are going to be just as good without any modifications 😄

[grave plaza]

I already know my dumbass gonna mod them anyway lmao

springs are too short for my taste 15mm just feels bad for me

[stone flax]

so good

[calm pulsar]

yeah can't wait for em

[harsh dove]

Friend got me a little shelf for my birthday

[quiet bay]

woah that's so nice

[harsh dove]

Thank you

[somber roost]

happy birthday cam 🥳

[harsh dove]

It was yesterday but thank you, I appreciate it

[left depot]

happy belated birthday

[fluid ravine]

Happy Belated Cammy

[harsh dove]

Thank you all

Bought these as my own gift

[left depot]

[somber roost]

neat !

[harsh dove]

Yeah they’re transparent kinda like X-Ray

[fluid ravine]

go crazy! go crazy!

[fluid ravine]

had some beer yet? :D

[somber roost]

im stuck between choosing gmk haku or osume winterglow for the white zinc 80he allthough wanting osume more because of the penguins lol

[untold wigeon]

Happy yesterday birthday @harsh dove

[fluid ravine]

got my orange juice ready if you havent

[left depot]

think the second one would look really nicely

[somber roost]

yeah thats what im thinking about too. seems to match better with white zinc to me

[left depot]

I want an osume set too but im afraid of the shipping and import tax

[quiet bay]

hi Raquel

[left depot]

[quiet bay]

I also think the osume one looks nice

[somber roost]

same. i figure just get it once and use it for a long time

[languid kestrel]

shipping and import tax can't hurt you, don't worry

[fluid ravine]

what's tax?

[left depot]

they can hurt my wallet

[languid kestrel]

I do believe it's the thing you avoid like the plague

[languid kestrel]

sure but you buy them once, what's an extra 50€ when you enjoy the keycaps forever

[left depot]

only extra 50? thats cute

[languid kestrel]

20 shipping, probably around 30 in VAT

[pliant trout]

What is the best setting for valorant

[languid kestrel]

0.1 everything

[somber roost]

with tax it becomes 154 usd for me hmm

[fluid ravine]

da flip

[pliant trout]

Snap tap is good?

[fluid ravine]

oh socd or what not 😂

i was thinking about ingame settings lmfao

but yeah .1 i agree

[pliant trout]

Socd is good for ?

[languid kestrel]

yeah so about 50 extra ahahah

[left depot]

but I wanna get those tamagotchi keycaps too and that USA based as well

[languid kestrel]

go to a suitable channel fren #⏬│rappy_and_snappy or #🎮│game or #💬│general depending on what you want to ask about

[pliant trout]

Why cant you sell in india anyways ?

[somber roost]

its the only set i really like. might just do it haha

[languid kestrel]

well pick one set you like over the others and pay the tax and enjoy the set

[languid kestrel]

yeah was kinda same for me with jtk hanami, had to import it and pay a lot of extra but at least now I have a set I'm happy with

[left depot]

i will probs end up getting both ;D

[languid kestrel]

[somber roost]

yep nice to get one good set and just use it for a long time. ill order it

[visual moat]

would this work for my 60he

also does this come with the silicon or does my 60he already have it ?

[quiet bay]

no

[visual moat]

why not

[quiet bay]

not even matching screw holes

[fluid ravine]

Tofu60 2.0 has different mounting systems than the original tofu60/redux

[visual moat]

can yall send me links of what works? i want to replace the white backplate

[left depot]

check our website and see ;) https://wooting.io/wooting-60he

[fluid ravine]

another thing to point out is the tofu60 2.0 case usb port is aligned in the middle

[visual moat]

so i should ge the tofu 60 redux case

[worthy epoch]

Useless since valo doesn’t have counter strafe mechanic

[worthy epoch]

Ofc

[worthy epoch]

Yaay thanks ❤️

[visual moat]

what backplate works for my 60he

[fluid ravine]

Plates like some of KBDfans Wooting plate, plates from wooting, or some others like SM keyboards

[visual moat]

oh i forgot wooting makes them ima just get it from wooting

bkd fans had a carbon fiber looking backplate

[worthy epoch]

Wooting pc plate/kbdfans wooting plate or custom wooting plate from smkeyboards

[open briar]

[visual moat]

how do i get wooting roles

[ocean widget]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hmRHWZSeXw

[visual moat]

i bought my wooting keyboard used tho

[calm pulsar]

you can only ask the seller to transfer the order to your wooting hub account then

[ocean widget]

then ask the original buyyer to transfare the order and create an hub account

[visual moat]

im not doing allat

[calm pulsar]

ight then xd

[visual moat]

i got the keyboard cuh can i just show it working in the software and then get my role

[ocean widget]

nope

[visual moat]

my keyboard is better then yours

[ocean widget]

[calm pulsar]

his role better tho xd

[visual moat]

he doesnt even have the keyboard

[calm pulsar]

he does in fact

[visual moat]

cap

[ocean widget]

i have LOL

[visual moat]

mine is better because i touched it

[ocean widget]

cool ig xd

[visual moat]

what mods did you do to your s

[ocean widget]

Tofu60 redux case
Wooting Wrist Rest
EVA 01 keycap set

[visual moat]

thats it

those are beginner mods

[ocean widget]

what do i need more LOL ?

[stone flax]

Raws

[calm pulsar]

Freebird60 case
FR4 plate, poron foam
Frankenstein switch Black Jades/Black Knights
Poron case foam
GMK Taiga keycaps

[visual moat]

the lekkar v2 switches are out ?!?!!?!?!?

[ocean widget]

with the keyboard it costed me 380€ xD

[ocean widget]

i went with lekker V2's

[stone flax]

[visual moat]

no one was talking to you but thats pretty cool. What do the black knights sound like?

[calm pulsar]

haha

tbh never used black knights on their own, just took their upper housing

[visual moat]

wow

[calm pulsar]

cause I don't like open bottom switches

[visual moat]

i want the black knights because they look opium

[visual moat]

what is that

[ocean widget]

one of the reason why i didnt go with RAW HE switches

[quiet bay]

divinikey has them in stock again

[stone flax]

where u from

[ocean widget]

• im perfectly fine with Lekkers

EU Hungary

[quiet bay]

nvm

lol

[stone flax]

prototypist

yipee

[quiet bay]

divinikey is us based

[ocean widget]

i cant even found them on there xD

[ancient kiln]

what's a good wrist support

[stone flax]

proper posture wins

[ancient kiln]

I have that, but the angle of my keyboard hand causes strain

I guess just a plop of silicone could be nice

[ocean widget]

im using wooting wrist rest

its kinda comfy

and im saying that when i hated wrist rest all my life LOL

[untold wigeon]

Hooray POM plate is on the way!

[fluid ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/hai-gif-10567033442484308038

[untold wigeon]

Indeed!

[spice plover]

Literally same. Never thought I would enjoy a wrist rest but I started having slight pains recently so I tried it and no more pain.

[cold bloom]

happy bday!!!

or belated haha

[calm pulsar]

cerakeys + raws + pom plate

[untold wigeon]

Yeah that’s what I’m trying first

[calm pulsar]

@harsh dove happy birthday! love the emma set, excited to see pics from you

[wintry rune]

Is this correct for the placement of the USB-c port? I tried to push it as much as possible into the right alignment but I was afraid that I might break something.

[calm pulsar]

horizontally looks fine to me, maybe a smidge lower and its perfectly fine

[wintry rune]

But like how far should it be budging outside of the hole? Regarding the vertical smidge I tried to tighten the screws but it won’t tighten more so i stopped to not break anything.

[calm pulsar]

I mean if you are able to plug it in its fine

[wintry rune]

Yeah I did plug it and used it for a bit but I was afraid that the port not being totally at the hole would lead to some dmg later on

[tawdry tree]

Can you not push the PCB more up in the case?

Is it all the away against the top edge?

[calm pulsar]

it probably shouldnt really stick out of that hole

[tawdry tree]

definitely not stick out but it looks kinda far

maybe it’s just the picture angle tho

[wintry rune]

i did push it as far as i could but after i tighten the screws it kinda go a little bit backward from the top edge

[tawdry tree]

Ah, when you plug it in, do you feel the USB click?

[wintry rune]

i do

[tawdry tree]

Then it should be good

If it’s smooth and you feel a click when plugging in it’s fine.

[wintry rune]

This little movement is what made me feel worried, im just really nervous since it is my first time doing this.

[tawdry tree]

The movement is fine, it looks like there’s a lot of friction when you plug it in though?

[wintry rune]

no it plugs just fine, it looks like there is friction because i plugged it in using one hand

[tawdry tree]

Alright, seems perfectly normal then.

[wintry rune]

thank u for the help ❤️

[quiet bay]

bought this for my friend's birthday 👍

pretty nice for 18 bucks

[fluid ravine]

hmmm

[quiet bay]

now ima get myself one lmao

I liek it

gonna get this one

(TRAINER BALISONG)

[dire apex]

The curved ones mid

For flips

[quiet bay]

looks rlly nice tho

[dire apex]

True

I just like to flip too much and got way to much already spent on em to justify a curved one for myself

Might cop a modded brs rep tho sometime

[visual moat]

how much can he sell that on steam market?

ew 305

[quaint mirage]

where can i buy carbon fiber plates for the 60he+ module

[visual moat]

kbd fans

[quaint mirage]

they dont havee it

[visual moat]

yes they do

[quaint mirage]

they dont

they only have the plate for the regular 60he not the +

[visual moat]

whats the difference?

[visual moat]

https://hypekeyboards.ca/products/wooting-60he-plates

maybe something from here

[calm pulsar]

it works on 60he+

the plate is made to work with plate mount stabs, but it works with screw-ins just the same

[unique shale]

i really want the Wooting 5 Dye-sub PBT Magnetic wave keycaps in ISO layout 😒 do someone know when they will be out ?

[stone flax]

???

lol

it’ll work the same dumdum

[meager ore]

blessed

[quiet bay]

holy crap

you just made me realize

I've been saying 9 for august instead of 8 this entire time

for the month

[fluid ravine]

[fluid ravine]

well we just started september so keep it up

[marsh saffron]

wish they werent a felony where i live

[quiet bay]

all my notes have 9/28 or smth/24 now 😭

as the date

[quiet bay]

rip, well I bought a trainer one cause I know damn well both of us would cut ourselves if it was a real one lol

[marsh saffron]

ive used trainers for a while and want a real one

but its a felony in canada

[quiet bay]

probably a good thing in case of any more crimes ig ?

[marsh saffron]

its not stopping crimes lol

nobody is gonna use a butterfly knife to commit crimes

this isnt a 90s mafia movie 🤣

[quiet bay]

ur right, guns r the real thing people use

[stone elbow]

pulling up to the bank with a butterfly knife

[marsh saffron]

even if you are still using a blade

something spring loaded, or just a regular folding knife is much more practical