🔧│keyboard_modding

[granite comet]

that kinda addicition

[flat cobalt]

I already have a pricey audio set up lol

[granite comet]

oh yeah you have the big magni modi setup dont ya

[flat cobalt]

Smol vv

[granite comet]

the summer stack one right?

wish i could get schiit in aus, they have a 70% markup....

[feral glade]

The smoothness of a modded keyboard is a drug wdym

[fleet osprey]

Guys does somebody know some keycaps for my keyboard i board a mocha case for my wooting 60HE +module but i dont know what for keycaps goes hard for that

[prisma stump]

Any coffee themed keycaps

Don’t take my advice I’ve never modded a keyboard lmao

Just what I thought was logical

[old swallow]

yeah, i do think coffee themed would work

or any keycaps with brown/beige

[flat cobalt]

My thumb hurts

Pushing in the switches :c

[granite comet]

drop x noctua collab

[urban harbor]

GMK tiramisu

[flat cobalt]

Guys if the keys with the stabilizers underneath don't pop back up what to do

[jade storm]

you're cooked

[feral glade]

Did u lube the switches urself

[flat cobalt]

Nu just swapped them to a different plate

[feral glade]

Sorry I read that wrong, I meant did you lube the stabilizers

[flat cobalt]

Nu

[feral glade]

Send a pic?

[flat cobalt]

Give me a quick sec

[flat cobalt]

Like if the stabilizers or the entire board ;3;

[feral glade]

Both, but especially whatever that doesnt pop back up

[flat cobalt]

Give me a second to unscrew vv to pull out

[short fable]

Hi, I have a quick question, am I able to buy the base wooting 60he+ (not the modular one) and then replace the switches and keycaps on that with ones i already have bought>? (and im not bying modular beacuse i dont want to buy the case aswell which adds up to more overall)

[feral glade]

In the #🪛│modding_faq channel there is a list of Switch Compatibility List. As long as the switches you have now is on that list, you are good to go

[short fable]

i did see that but the switches that i own arent on that list, is there a way im able to check or would it just be a guess to see if they work or not

[feral glade]

What kind of switches is it? is it hall effect

[harsh dove]

I’m assuming they aren’t

[feral glade]

Then its L in the chat my friend

[short fable]

Nevermind I see it at the bottom of the list (akko yellow)

[harsh dove]

Oh okay

[feral glade]

Ahahah what a comeback

[short fable]

so will that all work? Just buy the wotting60he base model swap switches and keycaps and will work like normal

[feral glade]

Yeah, just make sure whatever keycaps you have matches the layout of the 60HE, like ANSI / ISO or whatever they are

[short fable]

and just to double check it will still have the rapid trigger correct?

[harsh dove]

Yes

[feral glade]

The wooting features should work as expected yes

[short fable]

Alright, thank you

[feral glade]

So all of the keys that have stabs doesnt come back up or what

[flat cobalt]

I'm gonna try reseating them ;3;

[flat cobalt]

Just the top one :c

Delete

[fluid ravine]

Morning

[urban harbor]

it's possible the plate is interfering with the stabs if the stab holes arent wide enough

[feral glade]

Its also possible that the plate is interferring with the stabs pin? or the pin is placed upside down

[flat cobalt]

It seems to be the right way, took pics before removing them and everything :c

Let me put it back together and see if it helped

[harsh dove]

Try a different keycap

[flat cobalt]

I don't think I had put the stabilizers back all the way in vv. It seems to be working now

[flat cobalt]

Tyty

[feral glade]

Its fixed?

[flat cobalt]

Yeah c:

[gaunt plume]

I don't understand why the Akko Cream Yellow Magnetic Switch works with Wooting60HE, but the Gateron KS-20T Jade doesn't work with the Akko MOD007B HE.
Does this mean that the wooting60HE can input both the North and South Poles?

#🪛│modding_faq message
It's about this👆

[dry obsidian]

how did u do this?

[flat cobalt]

Thank you everyone c: it's good now

[twilit inlet]

What kind of keycaps are those, and how much did you spend on them?

[feral glade]

I need to know aswell

Asking for a friend

[flat cobalt]

Let me post link

https://www.keytok.com/products/kop-the-wandering-earth-ii?utm_source=shop_app&list_generator=link_to_storefront&context=order_management&user_id=3523875

@twilit inlet @feral glade boop

[feral glade]

Shiit

[harsh dove]

Yes, Wooting supports both polarities.

[gaunt plume]

Thank you. wooting is the best.

[polar girder]

No pins. No good for Wooting?

Or mayyyybe?

Gamakay TK75 HE Silent Phoenix Switch

FAQ list says untested

😅

Tempted

Amazon return policy might be worth the experiment

No more black tho. Maybe the clear is ok

[tawdry tree]

By the looks of it, it’s the same manufacturer as those Outemus. If the magnet is the same, they will work. No mounting pins doesn’t matter much.

List says untested for the white 20Us as well but perhaps someone has already tested those Phoenixes?

[polar girder]

Yeah the majority of my Raptor pins broke off and they still worked fine lol

Magnets seem kind of sus

Low key, $75 for switches is like too much but not horrible

Which is fucked to say lol

But reviews say they’re legit actually quiet

[tawdry tree]

I haven’t heard a sound test of them yet so it’d be interesting.

and if they suck (quality wise) you can refund them.

they def shouldn’t be $75 though lmfao

the outemus were like $20 for 90

💀

[harsh dove]

$75 for switches is insane

All of these are half the price or cheaper lol

[polar girder]

Well the keyboard is $75 lol

[harsh dove]

Oh

[polar girder]

But I only want the switches

[harsh dove]

Nvm then lmao

[polar girder]

Hah

But once I harvest the switches it’s dead to me

[flat cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/gimme-gloves-off-adventure-time-deer-adventure-time-adventure-time-with-finn-and-jake-gif-5393863

[tough moon]

does the wooting lube set come with the tools or no

[polar girder]

Yes the kit does

[granite comet]

they are 2 seperate kits

[oblique creek]

Can I find another bottom case for the wooting 2HE ?

[high nymph]

nope, because its not standard. broke yours or just wanted to change it?

[oblique creek]

Wondering because I will buy one and I see there some for the 2 others

[high nymph]

What you can do is 3D print your own with your own choice of materials: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-design/tree/main/wooting-two-he

[oblique creek]

Ok thanks

[high nymph]

I would buy the S##t out of metal bottom cases for Two-HE .alluminium ..... alluminum ... whatever 😄

[prime orbit]

Boutta go donate some plasma to buy the 60he

[tough moon]

Well damn that will be the last time i impulsively buy

[prime orbit]

Nah keep doing it

I do it all the time

And I’m doing great

[flat cobalt]

So cool 3

[prime orbit]

Gundam type

[flat cobalt]

yeee c:

[prime orbit]

Imagine having the gundam pc too

[flat cobalt]

It was pricey vv

and the 4090 as well

[tough moon]

well im sad cuz i initially thought the tools was gonna come with the lube Dx
otherwise i wouldve bought both together :-(

And to top it off i added expedited shipping just for lube are u kidding meeee

😭😭

[prime orbit]

Yeahhhh it was like 4k+ 😂😂

[prime orbit]

Now you are ready for the future

[flat cobalt]

The Asuka one's look nice too

[prime orbit]

Oooo

I have 1 gundam that I impulse bought

For like $250

[flat cobalt]

There's some really nice ones for sure

[prime orbit]

And I wanted to match my setup to it for the longest time

This guy

[flat cobalt]

[prime orbit]

Matching my setup is hard tho

Cuz I have like black everything in my life

So it just didn’t feel right

But I guess my keycaps match a little

Just a little lol

[flat cobalt]

Oh those are cool loking

looking

[prime orbit]

Yeee

Hopefully they are good quality tho

You could technically only get these if you bought the polar65 yuki aim

So I had to buy off AliExpress

[flat cobalt]

I'm sure they'll be fine until you find something later on

[prime orbit]

Only other ones I want are these

https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set/FP/C6mRMtRRpSVE6dFFtaKw_0159-copy-pdp.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=fill&w=500&h=333&bg=f0f0f0&dpr=3&chromasub=444&q=24

But I can’t justify $100 rn

[flat cobalt]

Yeah, some keycaps are so crazy pricey lol

[prime orbit]

Yeah those first ones

Were like $30?

Considering they were a limited drop

I think that’s pretty good

[tough moon]

maybe wooting is actually goated for the fact i can hold it and order edit

[prime orbit]

Yessir

[tough moon]

[granite cradle]

Any suggestions for a white strap to use with the 60

[digital stone]

Does anyone know if the 60he module is compatible with this case?

[harsh dove]

Yes

[untold wigeon]

Has anyone ever heard of this? I’m not a fan of TJ because he’s screwed me on previous orders but it looks really neat

https://tjexclusives.com/product/cerapad-kin-gaming-mouse-pad/

[digital stone]

Thnx, i want this case to kinda get a gap between the bottom of the case and the keycaps, you can compare it w the Razer Huntsman mini, do you think it will look the same as i have it in mind?

[harsh dove]

So you want large gaps between the case and your keycaps?

[digital stone]

Yh kinda like this yh

You think that will work with this case

[marsh saffron]

Cerapad is pretty good

[harsh dove]

Possibly but no guarantees

[marsh saffron]

Would still take glass pad over it, but people talk greatly about it

[stray tiger]

Should work. Ive got a few of those new in the box in black I think.

[untold wigeon]

It looks neat. I stay very up to date on peripherals but I never saw this or the previous version

[marsh saffron]

Yeah it's good if you want a genuine control pad that isn't cloth

Would like to try one

[untold wigeon]

I didn’t even know you could get control pads on anything other than cloth

[marsh saffron]

Don't like control pads though

[marsh saffron]

There are glass "control" pads

But they are still really fast compared to cloth

[untold wigeon]

I think I’m gonna stick with ordering the Artisan Otsu

[marsh saffron]

Good choice

If I didn't love glass pad so much id buy another artisan

[untold wigeon]

Maybe I’ll order one some day. $100 is expensive for a pad

[untold wigeon]

I have a Razer Atlas pad. It’s great but I don’t aim well on it

[polar girder]

I’m really tempted to buy this kb

Fk

If the switches suck or not compatible I can send it back

Amazon style

[marsh saffron]

Worth for glass, won't ever wear out or slow down

Cerapad I think can still get slow spots but takes a long time

[untold wigeon]

That’s what Amazon is for lol.

[untold wigeon]

Tj is claiming v2 solved that

[marsh saffron]

Oh? Might be worth it then

[polar girder]

Ok done

[untold wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/go-for-it-you-can-do-it-encourage-do-it-gif-14006408

[polar girder]

Should be here next week

Curious

[untold wigeon]

Same. I’ve been lurking and am intrigued

[polar girder]

Keycaps shipped

Yessss

[stray tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/my-man-denzel-washington-chuckles-hehe-gif-5032462

[old swallow]

yep, my xray has been send out aswell

[cold bloom]

W

I want the cable to ship so badly

getting my oil kings tomorrow tho

[harsh dove]

I’m waiting on 3 sets lol

2 of which will likely sit in boxes for awhile

We’ll see

[old swallow]

i still have 4 sets sitting in boxes

since the boards i plan on using them with havent arrived yet haha

[harsh dove]

Same basically

[uneven cradle]

I'm currently up more keyboards then keycap sets, must buy more keycaps

Evil dolch is a easy pick up

[cold bloom]

is the top one botanical?

such a clean set

[harsh dove]

Yeah Botanical Desert and Redacted and then Xray

[cold bloom]

nice

I want to build a green board with botanical so bad sometime

[polar girder]

😅

And now waiting on that gamakay TK68 HE also

[tired frigate]

That botanical is fantastic

[paper crag]

@harsh dove

wtf are these red rings for when installing stabs

Screw ins

[harsh dove]

Likely gonna use it on my Pine Green 461E

[elfin garnet]

My ish taking forever

[harsh dove]

Exciting

[paper crag]

Anyone got any ideas?

[harsh dove]

Basically just washers

[polar girder]

Oh yeah still waiting on knight stabs to come in stock

[paper crag]

Yeah but where do they go lol

[polar girder]

Only the clear ones back

[harsh dove]

Between screw and PCB

[native crystal]

are all 3 prelubed in the factory?

[uneven cradle]

Yep

[granite comet]

yuh read description

[native crystal]

and how have the experiences been with factory lubing on these? do they need additional hand lubing?

[granite comet]

4th day of fedex tracking not working lmao, kbd and artisan orders have managed to show up sooner

[polar girder]

Oh yeah and divinikey shipping that switch pad foam

Huge

[uneven cradle]

Well I haven't used the v2 lekkers but jades are well lubed could maybe do some spring lubing

[native crystal]

I see, thank you. And how problematic is the spacebar thing due to them being long pole?

[gleaming pendant]

can any switches go on the wooting keyboard?

[granite comet]

HE

#🪛│modding_faq message

[gleaming pendant]

mb not switches i meant keycaps

[cold bloom]

finally sold my old g915tkl lmao

time to buy more switches and keycaps

[old swallow]

any MX style keycaps will be compatible

[granite comet]

u a crazy mofo

[old swallow]

(which is pretty much 99% of keycaps)

[uneven cradle]

As long as they are mx stem compatible (pretty much all keycaps are)

[tired frigate]

I’m about to sell mine wish me luck 😂

Served its purpose tho, I actually did like it

[native crystal]

How are the v2 lekkers different from the V1?

[old swallow]

wait, you can sell keyboards. i tought you could only buy them. that explains why not everyone owns atleast 5

[old swallow]

tighter molding tolerances, but otherwise the same

[native crystal]

so that fixes the wobble right?

[old swallow]

well, theres no "fixing" it, since its technically impossible to have none, but yeah. it makes it like the jades most likely, which is good

[paper crag]

Yo currently these little feet at the back of the durock V2s mean they aren't aligning with the top holes (smaller ones) in the PCB

I'm good to clip these right?

The little hooks I mean

[native crystal]

except that the jades have a closed bottom

[cold bloom]

me too lol just not using it anymore with customs keebs

it was my study setup keeb for a while cause it was so easy to move around etc

but it's so pricey brand new for what it is lmao

[paper crag]

@polar girder could use an experts help here fam

[old swallow]

i meant in terms of wobble, not the other parts yea

[untold wigeon]

Where did you sell it? I have one I need to sell to

[cold bloom]

facebook marketplace lol

[tired frigate]

I bought mine off some dude on OfferUp for $100

[native crystal]

okay, ty for the infos

[tired frigate]

Retired veteran lol

[cold bloom]

Didn't really get a ton for it but it's gone now lmao

I got like 100$ usd for mine about

130$ cad

[tired frigate]

Yeah makes sense

Not much of a market for higher prices on them

[cold bloom]

no exactly

[tired frigate]

Maybe eBay but they take to long to pay out

[cold bloom]

that's what I thought too

[untold wigeon]

You would like mine @cold bloom murica themed with keycaps. lol.

[polar girder]

I don’t understand your problem/question

Focus on the hook/clip thing going in vertically first

[stray tiger]

@harsh dove did you select the Jane or the Kohaku and which color did you get?

[polar girder]

Then it should just swing down so the screw in part goes in

[paper crag]

Yeah it doesn't seem to go in vertically

[harsh dove]

Beige Rubrehaku

[stray tiger]

Beige gang

[polar girder]

Idk I’ve never fked with Durock and I tried to swap my stabs once then went back to stock ones

So I’m not an expert sorry

[paper crag]

Brehhhhh I'm cooked here

[grim terrace]

Cleared out some stuff and found some masking tape so I finally decided to tape mod my 60he.

[paper crag]

I got no clue how to make this shit work

[uneven cradle]

Going exact opposite with the light gray Jane

[stray tiger]

What are you tyring to make work?

[paper crag]

Nvm I was using the wrong holes

I was putting the clips in the small hole and screw in the bigger one

[stray tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-steve-carell-michael-scott-thats-what-she-said-gif-20446601

[paper crag]

When it's actually clips in the bigger one screws in the smaller one

I am a clown.

[polar girder]

Live and learn

[harsh dove]

Learn and live

[stray tiger]

Not always

[harsh dove]

True

[untold wigeon]

@cold bloom lol

[prime orbit]

tofu redux kit worth it

?

[polar girder]

Worth it is subjective

But i thought so

The brass weight was a nice upgrade

Solid value case for sure

[prime orbit]

i dont think the brass comes with the kit

[polar girder]

Oh the kit is with a PCB and stuff

Don’t get the kit if you want to swap a 60HE in to it

Yo what’s the magnet/sensor testing tool called?

I’ll have to test these phoenix silent switches

[untold wigeon]

Damn I just reposted my haptic vest and they are going for the same price I paid for it. That’s a big W

Well I actually have to sell it. Then big W lol.

[cold bloom]

Kinda dope lol

[harsh dove]

Wooting analog monitor

Have to download it off the GitHub page

[harsh dove]

#1196768306602983494 message

There’s a link here ^

[untold wigeon]

Thank you. I’ve gotten a lot of compliments on it surprisingly

[harsh dove]

This gotta be a meme

Does that have a monthly subscription to use it too?

[untold wigeon]

Omg I saw RandomFrankP talk about that today. Logitech are INSANE!!!

[harsh dove]

They’re out of touch

[untold wigeon]

I originally did it as a meme. People loved it. I was very confused and surprised

[polar girder]

Sick thank you

[paper crag]

Oh yeah @harsh dove

Durock V2's fixed the jade spacebar sticking issue

[harsh dove]

Nice

Good to know

[fickle bear]

best all black keycap set under $25? my geonwork raptors come in august 5th

[harsh dove]

https://ranked.gg/products/premium-blanks-pbt-keycaps

[fickle bear]

are they similar quality to the stock wooiting 60he ones?

[harsh dove]

Never tried em

[worldly tinsel]

is there a fix to this??

i accidentally put a switch facing west instead of north as i was not paying too much attention

[worldly tinsel]

the key is 8 and it also does not work

[harsh dove]

You likely broke the LED then

Putting in a switch sideways will stab the LED with the switch legs

[worldly tinsel]

im not able to type the number “8” either

[harsh dove]

I’d email [e-mail] then unfortunately

[worldly tinsel]

alright

[lucid swan]

could i cram a wooting 60 into one of these with enough dog in me

[harsh dove]

That’s a gasket mount case, so likely not

[lucid swan]

so you're saying theres a chance

[harsh dove]

Uh not really lol

Looking at it now

[lucid swan]

lol

[harsh dove]

Would likely need a custom plate

[lucid swan]

how hard would it be to do a custom plate, is that like 3d printing

[harsh dove]

It could possibly use a silicone gasket like the 80HE but you’d need the special gasket sandwich pad

[lucid swan]

ah

[harsh dove]

Looking at it, it’s a two piece case with indents for what looks like would be a silicone gasket pad

[lucid swan]

I might just try anything possible because I really like how it looks lmao

[stray tiger]

Pretty sure there are acrylic cases out there that will work already

[lucid swan]

its the rounded edges and transparent green though i might just be blind but i couldnt find others lol

[muted light]

quick question folks, is the gatreon jade hall effect switches similar in feeling and or sound to regular jades?
i like the sound of the jades alot, the overall clicky nature, but the activation leaves much to be desired, espically for someone with my typing speed ( < 110 with jades )
the hall effect activation switches are smooth all the way instead of having a activation feeling, right? when does the click happen? is that also adjustable?

[stray tiger]

I assume youre talking about the Kailh Box Jades? If so, the Gateron Magnetic Jades are nothing like them @muted light

[lucid swan]

i found one thats like $125

[muted light]

in terms of sound or feel?

[stray tiger]

Both

[muted light]

or is the magnetic jades just so completely different its hard to compare them

[muted light]

i really think you should sell a little test kit, one of each switch, so we can get a feel for them

[stray tiger]

Apples to Blueberries

[muted light]

id rather not buy 60 dollars worth of switches and it turns out i dont like them xD

[rapid sedge]

switch springs on the raws arw now lubed🙏

now we wait for the module and keycaps and were blessed

[uneven cradle]

I'm not convinced those switch test kits help much tbh hard to judge what it's actually going to feel like until you have it on the board and for all keys together

[tidal frigate]

So yeah you can look up sound tests for diffrent he switches if sound is up to ur liking

[lucid swan]

im on a quest for a case that looks like a mojo68 but is a 60% and tray mount lmao

[tidal frigate]

he clicky or tactile switch dosent exist because it is physicly impossible to tie bump to software in key

[cold bloom]

Redacted is so clean man

[harsh dove]

Technically you can make your own Clicky HE switches

[tidal frigate]

Oh ye i forgot about cursed mod

[lucid swan]

i might just hop on a waitlist for the melgeek acrylic case at this point its pretty close to what I was looking for lmao

[tidal frigate]

Maybe we should tell her about it

[harsh dove]

https://discord.com/channels/167181566978555904/1232314809823920129
#🔧│keyboard_modding message
You can check out these post from another community member who made their own Clicky HE switches.

[dry obsidian]

Will the normal wooting plate work in the salvation?

And do u need anything else for the salvation to work with the 60he+ module?

[fluid ravine]

Yup

[dry obsidian]

Ty

[harsh dove]

Nope

[pulsar coral]

what are u guys' favorite gasket mount case for wooting 60he

assuming u can get custom plate

[cold bloom]

Frog mini

Hard to find rn tho, I think cafege might still have stock

I might get one of those new frog minis that are oring mounted just to get a geon board lol

@uneven cradle any new news about them really?

[uneven cradle]

Na geons got like 100 things going on rn

[cold bloom]

Lmao fair

[polar girder]

Yo

Is gold too soft to make a plate out of?

Seems like it might have nice acoustics

[gleaming crow]

does anyone have nixies?

[cold bloom]

I’m trying to stop myself from buying some modded ones rn lol

[gleaming crow]

which ones are you lookin at

[jovial cove]

Maybe gold chassis?

[polar girder]

That’s hot.

[uneven cradle]

Clean

[harsh dove]

My $12 Keycaps

[polar girder]

https://kbdfans.com/products/dusk-67

Type shit

[polar girder]

The stabs even match the redacted vibe

Looks sick

[polar girder]

lol yeah might as well

Plate and chassis why not keycaps too

[uneven cradle]

If only wood didn't sound like absolute ass

[cold bloom]

unikeys has some that are all modded lubed/filmed/spring swapped lol

[prime orbit]

if i order the wooting

it says late august for both

does that mean like

25th

[tribal marsh]

uh huh what is this beautiful case? 👀

[harsh dove]

Frog Mini

[devout torrent]

My frog mini here here tomorrow I’m so hype

But module won’t be here until September 😭😭

[tribal marsh]

ah! are they still on sale somewhere tho

[devout torrent]

Nah I got it second hand

But if you wait the frog mini leggera is coming

[main mason]

what he switch has a creamy sound to it?

[urban harbor]

you aren't gonna find one

not yet

[main mason]

what exists in that case?

or whats a switch close to creamy?

[paper bloom]

Jades shld be creamy

Lekker v2 will fix the tolerance and the chatter

If not neo lavenders would work since it is the same as the Lekkers

or similar

[urban harbor]

i have neo lavenders and I would not describe them as creamy

more clacky/poppy

[paper bloom]

Hm

Then idk

[urban harbor]

imo there isnt anything out there that lives up to creamy sounding mx switches, they just dont exist yet

[cold bloom]

akko creamy yellows? lol

I haven't heard them yet tho

the mx versions are quite nice tho

but I think the he ones are open bottom unlike the mx ones so will see

[main mason]

jades are 3.5mm, what are RAW HE's again?

[harsh dove]

3.4mm

[main mason]

hmm

and jade is 50g end force

raw is 40g end force (for the lightest one)

what are their inital forces?

[cold bloom]

idk if its end force or actuation force lol

[paper bloom]

are the RAW HE's even compatible with the 60HE?

[main mason]

yea

[cold bloom]

I wish there was more of a standard when only one weight is listed

which it is

[harsh dove]

aournd 30 and around 20 for raw

[main mason]

do we have any specs about the lekker v2s?

ik theyre gonna be 4mm

but anythign else?

[paper bloom]

Its just a updated housing i think for tolerance

Idk if lekkers will be closed bottoms or not\

[main mason]

is it possible i can just order the wooting80he module for now and then later get switches

once more release etc..

[paper bloom]

Yea its possible

[main mason]

bc rn theres a very limited market of he swtiches

since its just so new

[main mason]

in that case, i might do that

[harsh dove]

imo RAW HE, Jades, Black Knight and when Lekker v2s drop will be some of the "better" switches out

[paper bloom]

I used to wait for my module to come over first then get switches then a case but took a long time for me so id say secure whatever first or get a prebuild

[paper bloom]

So in other words the lekkers are still some of the best in terms of the HE pool?

[main mason]

well imma have to wait till novemeber for the 80he anyways

so i might as well get everything but switches now

[paper bloom]

Yea p much

[main mason]

then when the keyboard comes i can get switches

bc rn its just the lekker v2s, jades, and raw he lol

[harsh dove]

when the v2s drop yeah I'd say so

We'll see though

[main mason]

is the 80he writst rest longer than the 60he wrist rest?

yes right

just wanna make srue lol

[harsh dove]

Yeah

[paper bloom]

ima see the end result hopefully they'll be a closed bottom

Or either shut off the chatter

[main mason]

does anyone know how much longer 80he is than 60he?

it seems like it just has one extra column

(idc ab height)

[main mason]

so like half an inch?

am i right?

[paper bloom]

Its just the removal of the FN key, numbpad

Imagine u get a 100% just remove the FN key and the numbpad

but leave like 2-4CM of space inbetween

and 60 is just a layout so the dimensions will differ

[main mason]

60he dimensions: 11.89 x 4.53 x 1.5 inch

[paper bloom]

im p sure ISO are 61 keys

while ANSI runs 60

This is something based off of memory fyi because its been a long and i remembered having this discussion with ppl here

in regards to the layout

[harsh dove]

62

my bad

ISO 62

[paper bloom]

wait isnt ANSI 61

[harsh dove]

yea

[paper bloom]

yea

[dawn stag]

is the 80he ever gonna get a real sound test

[polar girder]

maybe when it really comes out

[ionic breach]

when sander gets the finalcopy

[fluid ravine]

Yeah their current sound test like muted as hell

I mean its the sound test of the whole board id say

if we were looking for a raw sound test of the v2 then it would have to go on a board without like mods or wut not

But from my ears the v2's sounds pretty good no chatter

[short token]

Hello guys I’m sure you all get a message like this every day but I just got myself a new 60he+ and I want to look into swapping the case, I got these nice cat themed mocha keycaps going on right now so any mocha/brown cases or even white would be also, pls help me out with suggestions

[ionic breach]

do you have a budget?

[fluid ravine]

got a picture?

Im curious

[short token]

Hmmmmmmmmm I know those uh, tofu ones go for like $120ish shipping included, so anything more than that is prolly a nogo

[tidal frigate]

https://wooting-technologies.notion.site/de7a52e2b5a941258a17e448b0c9d9b0?v=5ec0b31c59db4a51b8a86a1288249e9f

[short token]

From Amazon. The keyboard itself comes Monday so I don’t have pictures yet

[fluid ravine]

All g just need to see the theme colors

[ionic breach]

holy fuck

have you guys seen tofu moon?

[fluid ravine]

oh yeah its sick

[short token]

It looks rly cool

[fluid ravine]

@short token Redux Mocha?

[ionic breach]

thats nuts

[short token]

That’s what I saw

If there isn’t any better suggestions i might just go with that

[fluid ravine]

dude imagine it had texture

[ionic breach]

its like if paint started peeling

[fluid ravine]

Like i find meteorite and moon unique in a way with their paints or what not

i fw it alot

[ionic breach]

ya same

[daring shuttle]

Where can I buy Wooting Mods in PH?

[flat cobalt]

Damn that's pretty

I got the meteorite gray

[ionic breach]

its like peeled paint

or porous cement

[flat cobalt]

For space theme though!

[ionic breach]

grey cheese

[flat cobalt]

😮 lol

[cold bloom]

@uneven cradle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T11gu1p_vzw

I missed this stream

watching it now

pc frog mini leggera

[little ledge]

is there a metal case that has a place for the strap? i like the strap look but don’t want plastic 🥲

[cold bloom]

alumaze

[marsh saffron]

alumaze

[ionic breach]

^

[marsh saffron]

also a tofu clone that has a strap slot

[little ledge]

ahhhh okie, was hoping for a third party

[little ledge]

oh which one?

[marsh saffron]

gamezone aim60

its on aliexpress

[little ledge]

oooo okie, thank you!

[cold bloom]

pc frog mini with xray keycaps

@harsh dove

there's a sound test of the oring mounted frog mini at around 1:26:00 in the video I posted @uneven cradle

[untold wigeon]

Damn I was just looking up Geon Raw switches on “Shop” affiliates and they are charging $2.00 a switch. Friggin ridiculous

[fluid ravine]

tff

[untold wigeon]

Seriously. Plus $36 for shipping. lol

[ionic breach]

you should give then a tip too

[untold wigeon]

lol. Right!

[stark osprey]

I think you're referring to the Growth Arts shop, it's a Japanese distributor. I tried buying from them initially, but yeah that price is nuts.

[untold wigeon]

On a happier note. I finally pulled the trigger.

And only spent $7 over retail. AND it’s authentic. Apparently. lol

[main mason]

What difference/how much of an impact does a metal case make

[main mason]

No way

[main mason]

I have the same thing in black mid

[rapid sedge]

once you get it lmk if its like good quality

[main mason]

Also how does zinc alloy differ from aluminum for a metal case hm

[marsh saffron]

If it's not a fake artisan it's top notch

[rapid sedge]

well i mean 7 bucks

either theres a scheme

[main mason]

Ye lol

[uneven cradle]

7 bucks over retail not just $7

[main mason]

$7 is crazy

[marsh saffron]

7 bucks more than retail

[rapid sedge]

OHHHH I READ THAT WRONG

[main mason]

Oh

[rapid sedge]

I THOUGHT HE WAS LIKE THAT WAS 7 BUCKS

[marsh saffron]

7$ artisan would be a fucking heist

[main mason]

Same lol

[main mason]

Yea 💀

[rapid sedge]

i legit ran to amazon

to see

[main mason]

Can anyone help me out

Hm

[rapid sedge]

i read that wrong

[main mason]

Im tryna decide whether or not to get the metal case for the 80HE

Is the +$100 worth it

🤔

[uneven cradle]

It's obviously going to be heavier, it will sound different and feel different to type on.

[austere creek]

might be best for you to wait for sander receiving some PVT samples to make the sound comparison videos

[main mason]

Usually ppl go for the tofu bc it’s aluminum

[main mason]

How will it sound different

Like what would the difference be

Deeper?

Clackier?

Poppier?

Etc..

[languid forge]

Do different stabs affect the sound of a keyboard?

! ! !

[uneven cradle]

Metal cases can be adjusted to be clacky or thocky depending on foam levels

There's a lot of variables at play though some metal cases sound pingy with no foam and others don't

[halcyon parcel]

Guys any diff between jades and ws dashes or are they the same

[languid forge]

same

[uneven cradle]

Plastic you get kind of a hollow thocky sound, metal tends to eliminate that hollow sound

[languid forge]

hopper are u talking to me?

[uneven cradle]

As Tony said probably best to wait for the proper sound comparison from Sander

[uneven cradle]

No but the stock stabs on the wooting are pretty good and you won't notice much of a difference swapping them out

[languid forge]

do u know what kind of stabs come in with the wooting 60HE?

[granite comet]

my shipment from artisan arrived 3-4 weeks early

[uneven cradle]

Depends if you get the module or the prebuilt

[languid forge]

module

[uneven cradle]

Module comes with screw in stabs

[languid forge]

do I get a FR4 plate with the module?

[uneven cradle]

You get a PC plate

[languid forge]

what would sound betteR?

or is PC plate the best

[uneven cradle]

Personally I think PC sounds better

[languid forge]

more thock?

[languid forge]

in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79RcRFiSKm0&t=254s

at 2:43

im tryna copy this guys keyboard basically

[uneven cradle]

Would depend on which switches you put in and how much foam really

[languid forge]

jade switches

anddd

idk what kinda foam to get

or where to get it

this is my first keyboard build

[uneven cradle]

That would be clacky and yeah I pretty much had the same setup

[languid forge]

yeye

sounds amazing

[uneven cradle]

With jades I wouldn't worry about foam, I just kept the plate foam in and removed the rest

[languid forge]

plate foam?

[stark osprey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yk8TBAarA8 Can probably use that if youre trying to figure out what plate to use. Guy is testing it on Jades too.

[uneven cradle]

The foam between the plate and the pcb

[languid forge]

TY

ill look at this

[languid forge]

u didnt take out the foam in between?

[main mason]

Also aluminum vs zinc alloy. Most metal cases are aluminum (afaik). So what would be the difference of those two

[uneven cradle]

Nope

[uneven cradle]

Zinc should be more dense, but not sure how that plays out since it's not that commonly used as a material in keyboards so I don't have much to compare

[languid forge]

do u know what spring swapping is?

[main mason]

Hm

[uneven cradle]

I do

[languid forge]

do tel

does it affect sound?

[uneven cradle]

It's just when you swap the spring of the switch for another

[languid forge]

worth it or na?

[uneven cradle]

Really up to preference that one, mainly affects feeling as you're changing the weight of the spring

[languid forge]

hmm

[languid forge]

so its only performance based?

[uneven cradle]

What you mean by that

[languid forge]

like the only reason to change springs is to make it so the key is easier to click

and it has nothing to do with the sound

[uneven cradle]

Mainly, but you could spring swap either way lighter or heavier

[languid forge]

okok

ima tell u the mods I think im gonna do

and u tell me if its good or not

Keyboard: Wooting 60HE

MODS:

1. Burger Mount
2. Jade switches
3. Tape mod.
4. Foam or Brass weight (I have tofu60 and brass is a option, not sure which to choose)

[languid forge]

@uneven cradle

[uneven cradle]

Probably recommend the brass weight everything else sounds good, you could gummy o ring the tofu I'm pretty sure but I haven't actually ever mounted like that so might be best to ask someone else

[main mason]

Why does no one like the GEON raptor?

Why are they bad

[languid forge]

So yes to brass weight 👍 , so gummy o ring the tofu instead of burger mount because you dont think the burger mount will work on the TOFU Case?> (did I get this correct?).

[halcyon inlet]

Hi, i’m looking into buying a wooting 60 he module, how hard is it to build it (first build) and i see some people have reviews of the wooting 60 he module already, is that just for like the content creators or was there a previous version? and is the wrist rest magnetic or no

[languid forge]

im in the same shoes as you

just watch a bajillion yt vids and ask people questions

[halcyon inlet]

LMFAO any recommendations on the case, holy60 looks cool

[languid forge]

holy60 is sweet

[halcyon inlet]

or like switches or anything i need to know

[languid forge]

I chose tofu 60 redux

[halcyon inlet]

aren’t they on waitlist rn?

[languid forge]

either get Gateron Jade switches or Raw HE switches

[languid forge]

sadly :(( I have to wait a while I think

[halcyon inlet]

mmm i see

[languid forge]

I preordered it tho

holy60 is super cool tho

I really like the look

[halcyon inlet]

and did u alr get a module or are u switching from the built one? is it really worth waiting extra for the module

[languid forge]

module

[austere creek]

im unsure why you think no one likes them

[halcyon inlet]

i thought it was on preorder i’m so lost rn

[languid forge]

module and I got jades, and def get module if ur building it

[main mason]

Bc mostly everyone just talks ab the jades or raw he or lekker v2s lol

What’s wrong with the raptor

[languid forge]

I just got it before the preorder

[halcyon inlet]

i see jades r that worth it?

[main mason]

Do they not work with the software well?

[halcyon inlet]

ohhhhhhhhh i understand

[languid forge]

look at thisn video that might help u

[languid forge]

i think I got it like an hour before

Literally ALL luck

look at this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79RcRFiSKm0&t=254s

go to 2:40

[halcyon inlet]

lucky bruhhh i been wanted to build a keyboard, just dk how hard it would be everyone makes it mad easy bruh

[main mason]

Raw he better than jades? @languid forge

[languid forge]

depends

which sounds better to you

[uneven cradle]

It will work I just think gunmy o ring is better

[languid forge]

O ring better

okok

[halcyon inlet]

wait deapple have you already built urs yet?

[languid forge]

Gummy O ring?

[austere creek]

the only issue im aware of (which is why lots of people stem swap raptors) is the magnet is too strong maxing out the sensors around 2mm or so

[languid forge]

Isnt gummy o ring the same as burger mount? or no

[languid forge]

not yet

coming in

in like

[halcyon inlet]

mmm i see are there any other parts i need other than switches (i have key caps) module, case?

[languid forge]

4 days

[halcyon inlet]

lucky bruh i gotta wait till late august

[languid forge]

unlucky

i didnt even know I got lucky

I thought they were always in stock

[halcyon inlet]

that’s what i thought too but i guess not

now i gotta figure out how to build a keyboard

[uneven cradle]

No https://youtu.be/Uohbf2UH6FY

[languid forge]

get stuff that would make the keyboard sound how u want it to sound

[cold bloom]

@uneven cradle bro you see that geon stream I sent earlier

I need that frog mini leggera

[halcyon inlet]

i mean tbh i just want it to work lmfao

but look nice at the same time

[languid forge]

lol

[uneven cradle]

I saw a little might watch the rest later looks good though, always good to have more cheap options for people

[languid forge]

youll be fine

[cold bloom]

he shows an alu one later, but interestingly he says he likes the acrylic more than PC so far

will see what he decides on

[languid forge]

watching this now

[halcyon inlet]

i see if i get jade switches i have to change the stem length?

[cold bloom]

the stem length is changed itself inside the switches, some people (rarely) have issues with the stabilizers being a longer actuation, but mine are fine

you don't have to "change" anything urself except switching out the switches

[elfin garnet]

this is exactly the look I wanna go for with my X-rays. Not too sure about o-ring mount tho. Would prefer gasket. Also, is there going to be a version with left side usb?

[halcyon inlet]

if you don’t mind me asking what case do you use? i’m stuck on the alumaze vs holy 60 or smth like that

[cold bloom]

there is a wooting compatible version but it's tray mount unfortunately

[cold bloom]

I have an original tofu 60 with my wooting right now. there's lots of options for the wooting, alumaze tofu redux are the most popular, but you can get some others if you wanna spend more or get a custom plate also

[elfin garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/dumping-trash-daniel-labelle-frustrated-garbage-trash-gif-27186872

[halcyon inlet]

do you have any opinions on the alumaze case aswell?

if you’ve ever tried it bc the tofu is on waitlist and there’s like 1.5k ppl waiting

[flat cobalt]

That 461E case looks fancy

[main mason]

HMM

[main mason]

Nah I’m asking u lol

Like for ur opinion

Like what do u think

[languid forge]

okok

I think

both are really good

I chose jades because I like the sound

the Raw HE's sound really good

Ill send you a video

on the difference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79RcRFiSKm0&t=254s

OK

JADES: 3:08
RAW HE: 2:40

@main mason

[main mason]

Hmm

[flat cobalt]

Same c:

[languid forge]

ya

sounds mega clean

[languid forge]

Up to you

I like the jades

a lot of people like the jades

these also do not affect the keyboards performance in any way

[main mason]

Honestly they sound the exact same to me

Atleast from that vid lol

[languid forge]

ikr

SLIGHT only SLIGHT difference

[ionic breach]

honestly

im just getting lekkers

[languid forge]

you pick em

[languid forge]

Also Jades are more expensive than RAW HE's

[flat cobalt]

I'm still debating if I'm gonna self lube them or not

[languid forge]

if that is an issue for you

[ionic breach]

raw he is like 0.4 right?

[languid forge]

SAME

[ionic breach]

per switch

[languid forge]

per switch?*

yeah

something like that

[ionic breach]

there was like a discount for 0.3

[main mason]

I need a silent he switch 🥲

[ionic breach]

i forgot where

[languid forge]

im just scared of over lubing

[main mason]

Waiting for it to drop

[languid forge]

i aint never lubed

[ionic breach]

dont be

[languid forge]

would it affect the performance ?

[ionic breach]

you can always re do

[ionic breach]

lubing is not about performance

[main mason]

Ye lol

[ionic breach]

just lube to your liking

[main mason]

Hm

[languid forge]

hmm

[ionic breach]

reasonably

[languid forge]

kk

[ionic breach]

dont pour lube into the keyboard

[languid forge]

that was my idea

i heard lubing takes hours

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

I might do it

[stark osprey]

Oh man, does the tray mount version come in that Frosty glass finish?

[cold bloom]

it's great for the price especially

[cold bloom]

not sure yet, I think he was still deciding between acrylic or pc in that stream but im not sure which cases will have what colours

[ionic breach]

it does

for ur first time

about 4 hrs

[languid forge]

AH

[cold bloom]

lubing 60+ switches makes my hands cramp for days lmao

[ionic breach]

just watch a series or smt

[halcyon inlet]

is the wooting wristrest magnetic?

[stark osprey]

Gotcha ok thanks, will try to keep an eye out. Looks gorgeous

[languid forge]

rela

[ionic breach]

no

[languid forge]

fml

[cold bloom]

I love good factory lubed switches so I can just touch them up as I go

[languid forge]

4 hours

[halcyon inlet]

ok thank you so much

[ionic breach]

avg

[cold bloom]

agreed, I might get both tbh

[halcyon inlet]

so it can just slide around freely?

[ionic breach]

you may be talented idk

[languid forge]

do u ever have to ever RE lube in the future?

[ionic breach]

its silicon

[ionic breach]

yes

[cold bloom]

I think I'd still rather have a tray mounted frog mini over a 461e or optimum case

[languid forge]

like after a year do I re lube

[languid forge]

How do I know when its time?

[ionic breach]

depends on ur fequency

[halcyon inlet]

i see and then 1 more question, are the factory lubedswitches good enough

[ionic breach]

when you dont like the sound

[languid forge]

like everyday 2 hours

[languid forge]

lol

[ionic breach]

for non sound freaks

[languid forge]

makses sense

[halcyon inlet]

ok thx

[languid forge]

drakon

[ionic breach]

maybe once a year

[languid forge]

fair

in this vid drakon

do u think he lubed them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79RcRFiSKm0&t=254s

it says pre lubed

and they sound rlly good

[cold bloom]

nah that should be factory

[languid forge]

if so then I wouldnt even care to lube

[ionic breach]

sry cant watch that lmao

[cold bloom]

they're insanely good factory lube

[ionic breach]

in a class

[cold bloom]

they used a new nozzle it said

[languid forge]

rip

[cold bloom]

to apply it evenly

it's really good

[languid forge]

jades?

[cold bloom]

Raw HE

[languid forge]

ahh

what about jades?

[cold bloom]

jades aren't bad stock, I did like mine more with the springs oiled

[languid forge]

should I lube or just leave pre lubed

[cold bloom]

I would bag lube the springs with superlube

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000BXOGHY?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

[languid forge]

hm

[thick pebble]

are the Gateron Jade Switch compatible with the Two HE?

[cold bloom]

should be

if lekkers work they will work

[languid forge]

ye

[ionic breach]

um

if ur getting from wooting it should be perfect

[thick pebble]

great thx

[ionic breach]

outside has some issues

[cold bloom]

black xray keycaps????

I might have to hold off

[flat cobalt]

[tawdry tree]

White with 80HE’s translucent white case and black with 80HE’s translucent black case. 🥶

[cold bloom]

yup

[elfin garnet]

10pcs = 70pcs lmao. Dual stage from AE. They sent me 60 more than I ordered of the 45g ones

[languid forge]

insta buy

wtf

[peak smelt]

anyone else tried modding a wooting uwu yet or?

[cold bloom]

Wouldn’t black X-ray just be pbtfans neon?

Without the sparkles

[spiral canyon]

FFS HOW MANY switches does Gateron release wtf?
Any different keyboard there's some different Jade/KS-37 recolor

[peak smelt]

taping

[cold bloom]

Gimme oil king HEs atleast at this point

Just use the jade mold with ink bottom housing etc

[elfin garnet]

this

[uneven cradle]

@harsh dove

[ionic breach]

ngl I don't think black xray can pull it off

unless you have good lighting

[native crystal]

Has anyone imported Geonworks RAW HE switches to the EU? I want to know whether they got taxed. Any other options to get that switch are appreciated but I found none.

[elfin garnet]

I have to Norway. It's not in EU directly but through other sorts. I got taxed like 40$ for 70 switches

[native crystal]

damnnn

harsh 😔

Hungary is no better either then

I always get taxed here

[elfin garnet]

Yup and like 15$ administration fee to DHL

[native crystal]

exactly

was it worth it tho

or should I just go w lekker 45

[elfin garnet]

Yeah I love them. I don't like current version of lekkers at all. I don't think they're comparable to RAWs

New lekkers might be tho in terms of tolerance etc

[native crystal]

I see, there are 3 types of raw he

which one did you buy

they are really really light

im surprised by the 40g bottom option

that is 27g initial

crazy light

[alpine swift]

did u pay any import taxes for ur keyboard to norway

[elfin garnet]

I bought the 40g version. Can confirm that they are very light. I bought dual stage springs from AliExpress that are heavier which I plan to swap to though.

[elfin garnet]

Yes, somewhere between 70-80$

[alpine swift]

kjedelig

[elfin garnet]

100%

[alpine swift]

thank u

[paper bloom]

@elfin garnet so ig they arent any issues

[elfin garnet]

With what?

[paper bloom]

Raw 40g HE

[elfin garnet]

No not at all. Would recommend lubing the springs, but that's all. Wouldn't touch anything else.

[paper bloom]

The springs comes in unlubed or fac ?

Nvm it is

[spiral canyon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1219653840102494300/1268888722103861280/HEswitchesv5.2.png

[tawdry tree]

You’ll be needing to updated your switch list picture hourly, prepare yourself. 😂

[ionic breach]

thockfather working harder rn just to piss cal off

[tawdry tree]

I’m annoying af probably but the Outemus work fine with Woot (same goes for the Latenpows) and I’d state that the 37 series switches do not work because of magnet orientation rather than polarity. Again, reverse polarity is fully supported on the last few versions (anything after 2.7.2 iirc).

so Kailh Flames don’t work optimally because of magnet strength, same as the Mistrals.

I really like the layout by the way, it’s a lot easier to view visually than as text but maybe that’s just me. 😅

more informative.

and Black Knights have a 4mm travel and are open bottom. 😁

Haimu sticky rices have a travel of 4mm too I believe.

@polar girder by the way, if you haven’t already purchased that Akko board; Akko sell their switches separately as well if you contact them.

90pcs for $30, excluding shipping ofc.

[spiral canyon]

Fixed
But as for Black Knights it says pretty much everywhere they have 3.6mm travel
Same with Glutinuous/Sticky and 3.5

[tawdry tree]

There is a lot officially stated inaccurately, it’s pretty crazy. It’s up to you of course. I’ve already notified MoyuStudio but there hasn’t been an update yet afaik. Glutinous Rice definitely is closed bottom but Sticky Rices are open and I do think they were 4.0mm as well but perhaps Thockfather can measure them if he has time.

[iron pebble]

What keycap type should I go for in the 60HE?

[tawdry tree]

Anything compatible with Cherry. Profile is preference but OEM and Cherry are widely available.

[iron pebble]

I’m a first time modder, what do you mean by Profile and OEM. Is that like the type of switch like cherry

[tawdry tree]

It’s the shape of the keycaps so to say.

[iron pebble]

Ahh ok

[tawdry tree]

This shows the difference between profiles.

[iron pebble]

And what abt the case

[iron pebble]

I see

[iron pebble]

What does the standard wooting use

[tawdry tree]

Most GH60 cases are compatible, you should check here before purchasing though: https://wooting-technologies.notion.site/de7a52e2b5a941258a17e448b0c9d9b0?v=5ec0b31c59db4a51b8a86a1288249e9f

[iron pebble]

Ait

Thx

[tawdry tree]

Wooting’s Double Shot PBT keycaps are OEM and Wooting’s Take Control keycaps are Cherry.

[radiant lake]

are gmk red samurai keycaps compatible with alumaze60 case?

[tawdry tree]

Yeah, a case doesn’t hinder keycap compatibility.

or vise versa.

[radiant lake]

ok thx

[tawdry tree]

👍

[somber roost]

lol that’s a lot of switches. quite a nice chart tho

[untold wigeon]

I will. Arriving tomorrow

[paper crag]

Fellas, when burger mounting

Do you o ring every single screw

Or just either side

[untold wigeon]

Every screw. Both sides

[paper crag]

Ight so just to clarify

All 5 screws?

[untold wigeon]

Yessir

[untold wigeon]

Remember, you’re isolating the board so none of it can touch.

[paper crag]

Yeah that's what I was thinking lol

[polar girder]

Which plate you order for frog? @devout torrent

After a couple days of use, I’m digging these black knights

With hella oiled two stage springs lol

Gang

[stark osprey]

Definitely prefer the sound of the open bottoms, and the box stems do help with stability.