🌟│wooting80he

[toxic zephyr]

this literally applies to everything

[verbal solar]

i can not reach the arrow keys they are 0.015mm too far to the left. please fix or the company is bankrupt

[sage reef]

first issue with that, placing Del a spot higher is that you have to move your wrist even to reach it (with pinky), but not with standard placement.
of course the other issue is if you're using more keyboards, annoying when switching them.

[rugged pasture]

Does anyone know if the 80HE will come with the ins and del keys when ordering ISO UK?

[sage reef]

yeah it will

[rugged pasture]

Amazing thanks, i dont use the insert key but something feels wrong about mixing the keys up too much ...

[sharp belfry]

do we know if they will release the nordic layout to pre order

[verbal solar]

thats not a 80he get that outta here!

80he 👍

[supple ember]

iso ew

finalscam ew

[verbal solar]

val player

[humble cargo]

ikr opinion invalid

[sage reef]

feel bad for all ansies not having that big juicy enter key, hit enter fast any time in any way

[verbal solar]

it feels mightier to press it

i dont want a soyboy enter key

i wanna know that im entering

[grizzled cove]

this guy knows what hes entering

[foggy kayak]

This is a 60he

[verbal solar]

I’m sure it looks like it but you’d be mistake

[spark hound]

What do you mean? The ansi enter is bigger!

[toxic zephyr]

in terms of surface area the iso enter is clearly bigger

but it's worse because it's further from the home row

[left turtle]

Worse or better has everything to do with muscular memory

[ancient breach]

iso left-shift is the worst thing about iso though

[left turtle]

If you are used to iso. No way ansi is better. The other way around also@true

[toxic zephyr]

I was used to iso and ansi is better

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[left turtle]

Two opinions. I was used to iso and I think it’s better. Due to muscular memory

[ancient breach]

I have used both and while iso enter does not bother me, the left shift clearly makes it worse for a use layout.

[left turtle]

😂 now what

And I use ansi now

User experience is very particular

[toxic zephyr]

yep but an enter key closer to home position can only be better, unless you somehow use the key next to ISO enter on the bottom more than you do the enter itself

[ancient breach]

I would want to counter the home row advantage a bit as that would be true if you just slide on one axis, however moving your wrist without twisting your hand you may notice a tilting movement upwards.
This makes the iso enter not harder to hit on account of it being on the row above

[toxic zephyr]

I'm not sure what you mean

it's objectively further away from J no matter how you look at it

[sage reef]

never has issue with ISO left Shift
I guess you can reach further with ansi shift using same hand, that's better

actually for coding ansi is much better I guess, not having to use AltGr for curly brackets, and default square brackets

[lethal abyss]

that is a language thing not ansi/iso

[sage reef]

yeah but still

[lethal abyss]

ansi/iso are purely the physical differences

you can have the same layout on iso

[verbal solar]

his keyboard doesnt have åäö

[sage reef]

you can just swap Alt and AltGr though, making it a bit easier, this also fixes having to do @ with right AltGr, also easier with left

[lethal abyss]

I just use iso international and that fixes everything

[steady nova]

I mean you can just change the language layout and it’ll be the same

• one extra character I guess

[lethal abyss]

yeah iso international is ansi + the duplicated | button

[sage reef]

can't change language when you use that language or use it with some other keyboard, way too unituitive

[lethal abyss]

huh?

[steady nova]

Skill issue…

[sage reef]

you need those 3 letters ÅØÆ, so what you mean, how changing to ISO international will fix this

[lethal abyss]

I mean for coding you wont need them

[verbal solar]

coding in nordic

[sage reef]

it's just much easier to switch Alt with AltGr though, since transition to some other keyboard that doesn't have it (especially when not coding) will be very seemless

maybe you're right tho need to try it, you can change the Ø and Æ on the home row with those {[ and ]}. maybe muscle memory will kick in and override those brackets when you write in your that language

[ancient breach]

I personally use the eurkey layout which works fine for dutch at least, much better than using dead keys.

Just wish keycaps with EurKEY ledgers were at least somewhat common

[toxic zephyr]

just ditch localized layouts, go for any "international" layout and deal with umlauts/accented letters via AltGr

[ancient breach]

That's why I say EurKEY, having them without dead keys is great

[toxic zephyr]

yeah

bunch of international layouts available, just need to be prepared to forego keycap legends

at least if you want a mismatching physical layout to go with your language layout

like having iso-de caps but some iso-int language layout or something

[ancient breach]

Basically the official standard for the Netherlands.
Except most keyboards still use ansi.

Because why make a specific us iso keyboard, some do but most don't.

Which is good because ansi is just better for the us or us int layout

[toxic zephyr]

yeah I kinda honestly feel like us-int is basically the best for anyone who mostly writes in english and only secondarily in their native language, or if their native language doesn't use many diacritics or umlauts

[upbeat berry]

or if youre coding

[toxic zephyr]

yeah but still the same caveat exists I think

[upbeat berry]

loved that the lekker came with us-int caps

[ancient breach]

But having it mapped to eurkey is just the best way to handle it: https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/pics/layout.png

For me at least

[toxic zephyr]

yeah us-int does mostly the same thing, just the diacritics/umlauts are on different letters

[lethal abyss]

that means 80he will also come with iso-int I hope

[toxic zephyr]

the idea is the same, maybe not as polished, but for someone like me who only uses ä and ö, it's fine

[toxic zephyr]

iso-int as in us-int with iso compat kit?

[upbeat berry]

unsure. i know that on lekker it was done due to the language pack addon so 1 base set and only some replacable caps

if i recall right on 80he we wanna use our sets just without numpad

[ancient breach]

US int misses a few of them because of that a lot of dutch people use it wit hdead keys.

[lethal abyss]

is us-int a thing?

[toxic zephyr]

us-int is the language layout I use, yes

[upbeat berry]

us-int is the keyboard layout in OS

[toxic zephyr]

(colemak though but that's besides the point)

[upbeat berry]

meaning its internationalized to have dead keys for accents

the iso US caps are a dream though

[ancient breach]

Us int is the default layout for the Netherlands mostly with dead keys in the os though

[lethal abyss]

wahtever the thing was on the lekker that has iso-int

[toxic zephyr]

what do you mean by "iso-int" though

[lethal abyss]

iso international layout

[toxic zephyr]

that's not a thing I can see anywhere

[lethal abyss]

pretty sure thats what it was called on the lekker site

[upbeat berry]

because iso-int is a keycap print not pc layout

[ancient breach]

Us international is in fact used on an iso layout as that is the official standard in europe.
Even if it just means a duplicate key.

[upbeat berry]

iso int basically matches US/US-Int on an OS

[toxic zephyr]

so ansi caps with iso compat kit

[lethal abyss]

guess so?

[upbeat berry]

you could phrase it as such but lekker came without ansi keys

iso lekker editions are a normal US layout

not to mention if you buy caps with ISO extra caps most get it wrong and print #~ on the extra cap next to left shift

[toxic zephyr]

yeah whatever, as long as I know who's talking about what

[upbeat berry]

which is incorrect as it should also be \| like the one next to enter

[toxic zephyr]

us-ansi: keyboard layout
us-int: language layout
iso-int: not a thing

[upbeat berry]

ye lekker set was the only time ive seen a keycap set do it right

[ancient breach]

Not us international though, just us on an iso layout

[toxic zephyr]

which is why I was confused what quin meant

[upbeat berry]

googling for US iso gives basically no results

[lethal abyss]

the store page is not available anymore but im pretty sure it listed it as iso international so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[toxic zephyr]

yeah that's just what Wooting decided to call it

[lethal abyss]

or I guess "US English International ISO" in the blog

[toxic zephyr]

because they made this up basically

[upbeat berry]

because its a non existent set

no one makes a proper set of these

sadly

[lethal abyss]

well, use your market position to make it a thing

[toxic zephyr]

I think the 80he will rather have the offerings they have for the other boards: ANSI, ISO-nr, -de, -uk and -fr

[ancient breach]

Just looking up us international keyboards with an iso layout I am finding this:

Basically iso with a large left shift

[toxic zephyr]

as they'll make a lot more of them than just 1000 so makes more sense to offer it in a wider spectrum, for lekkers they didn't want more SKUs for just 1000 pieces

[upbeat berry]

the cursed layout my gf loves

[lethal abyss]

shh go away with your logical arguments I just want the same layout on both boards I'll use xD

[toxic zephyr]

xD

[upbeat berry]

tbh its incorrect though as the extra key next to shift shouldnt just be removed

it basically makes the keyboard unusable in some languages on the OS

[ancient breach]

There are also keyboards that just duplicate | there on a regular iso

[upbeat berry]

because thats what it is if your pc is set to US

[ancient breach]

Surprised logitech would even go this round

[upbeat berry]

any other language doesnt have duplicate keys

not to mention while both output \| the scancode for both is different

[ancient breach]

Of course, but it's how the us / us int layout in windows map it by default.

It really does surprise me keyboard makers even make this, as I can't see many other places where this makes sense.
Most dutch people would not even care.

[upbeat berry]

ye i get that but it basically means its only ever usable with US

i had to disable the extra iso key on my GFs keyboard cause she was just used to long left shift with iso enter

[ancient breach]

Interesting, didn't even know that fits

[sage reef]

merging ISO/ANSI is really not worth it though, hard to remap properly and stuff

[lethal abyss]

wouldn't say so, especially on wooting boards

[sage reef]

ok how to easily do it

[lethal abyss]

open software, drag key to where you want it, done

[sage reef]

nope, windows only loads iso or ansi, not both at same time

[lethal abyss]

I mean just load it as iso and the long shift key either means you need to assign the shift key twice or one key that is shown isnt used on board

not sure what else could be missing

[sage reef]

no idea what you mean really

[winter coral]

I'm a little interested to see if Wooting's management is happy with the release, as they likely assumed the market wouldn't be so easy.
I'm sure there are multiple sources of information that the company is tracking at the same time, not just the Reddit post or Discord. That being the case, things are probably not as grim as one might think here or there.

[jolly tangle]

v

why u like jis?

[ancient breach]

I do think the bottom row is interesting at least

Or that

[winter coral]

then transform management to team.
Thinking behind of it: Do I invest in a black sheep or will it last a long time on the market and receive prioritised software updates; as a customer.

[verbal solar]

but 2017 bad 2023 good

[ancient breach]

Wooting one was good in 2017 or at least 2019 when I got mine.

[winter coral]

I'm only on the ball because I've learnt to appreciate the company in its own way - even if the design totally annoys me and makes me sad. Nevertheless, I'm still considering the purchase as a form of support.

[ancient breach]

That is fair, end of the day good software / long term support is worth something, but so is having a layout / design you actually like.

[winter coral]

Well, graphics cards have been supported for a long time...and if I only have a handful of products, support ~~is ~~ could a bit easier.

[open lintel]

zinc case better have an orange variant

or I will commit crimes trying to paint it

there is enough misery and enough crimes in this world

we don't need any more of them such as me tasked with any artistic task

[toxic zephyr]

did they announce how many variants there'd be?

[candid karma]

did they show three during the livestream?

or was it only two?

[toxic zephyr]

i thought they said there'd be a light and dark of the plastic case but what of the zinc one 🤔

[candid karma]

oh I thought you were talking about layouts

[winter coral]

hmpf, I pulled the trigger on Q1 HE - the last few days have been hard to decide, but as unfortunately more info won't come for a few weeks and the Kickstarter ends in 3 days already. 😔

Good luck for the rest. Let's see if I will buy an additional 80.

[toxic zephyr]

fomo'd into crowdfunding 😬

[winter coral]

The launch of the 80HE would have been nothing less.

just another platform

[toxic zephyr]

ah maybe, I imagined it'll be pre-orderable persistently though, instead of there being a multiple-month gap between the KS collecting money, and the first batch delivering

[winter coral]

delivery is feb

"planned" 😉

[toxic zephyr]

then why are they doing it in kickstarter x_x

whatever, chinese gon chinese

hope it turns out well

[winter coral]

As a european, i would have liked to support the eu - but the design is a real killer in my head - at least at the moment.

[toxic zephyr]

yeah if I really wanted a 75%-ish HE right now I'd be in the same boat

[humble cargo]

buy the wooting u traitors

[toxic zephyr]

think the Q1HE looks the best but comes with practically no software as it's just riding on QMK, which kinda sucks

have no trust in meletrix doing anything better for the boog75

[winter coral]

at least web app

[toxic zephyr]

not a fan of web apps but better than not supporting my OS at any rate so I don't mind

[jolly tangle]

treason !! get the cannons ready.

[jagged owl]

i see
you called me a traitor

[winter coral]

You had it in your hand - would have bought the maximum premium super founder all in one solution here...just a cool modern 75% 🙂

where everyone would have said - what an epic piece or art.

maybe 2025

"wooting" would be the effect.

quality, iso and software

enough to roll up the market from behind.

such thing from wooting...with high tech, long support

but tastes differ...at least in this environment.

[lethal abyss]

what is that monster, would be my reaction to that

[buoyant solstice]

Now try making that in ISO.

[winter coral]

I know...one keyboard to serve everybody...impossible

[winter coral]

just an impression....that i mean a slim high tech monster.

[buoyant solstice]

I was making a point.

[winter coral]

you are 100% more of an expert than i am in this field. I'm just trying to illustrate my visual needs. That there would be limitations is to be assumed.

I found this.

[buoyant solstice]

That is not a standard shift. So that kind of disqualifies it from* our philosophy of not using non-standard keycaps.

[jolly tangle]

I just want to use wootility

[winter coral]

sure, i know, i know your statement. i only said that with something like this in high tech and raised to wooting level, my wallet would have had no end.

[buoyant solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-really-a-shame-cordell-walker-walker-texas-ranger-shame-on-it-what-a-shame-gif-1271898927230790752

[jolly tangle]

if I was not into gaming, the keycron would be fine.

but then I also dont understand hall effect switches

if its not for gaming

[winter coral]

I am gaming and working on it....I will get it now for testing...first Keychron 😞

At some point, there will be several standards if enough companies simply adopt the other form. This is how standards are sometimes established, especially if the original standard does not want to adapt. "It's always been like this." 😅

[sage reef]

look, 60HE is for gaming, with still pretty easy to click shortcuts Fn + numbers for F keys and Fn + Backspace for Del.
but when doing new keyboard with those keys dedicated, they also must be easily clicked, not merged together making them slower to click and easier to misclick.
compact 75% keyboard's main market is like small wireless keyboards you can take with you when traveling or moving around and place it on your knees or something. these are not really made to be used as main stationary keyboards.

[jolly tangle]

they hope people will adopt this 80he layout

[winter coral]

I'm not married to it - as I said, I've now ordered the Q1 HE out of frustration. It was more of an analogy.

The information set so far has not convinced me, at least not yet.

But I have to go off, as the alarm clock goes off in 6 hours. Good night and all the best.

[sage reef]

Q1 HE layout has been done to death, and also the arrow keys shifted down like that doesn't make for a very "streamlined" and also "formal" look. Team Wooting already made that gaming keyboard, now they wanted to make one that is like aesthetically a bit more targeted to "formal" users.

arrow keys shifted down like that would also not look that great with the look they were going for

[buoyant solstice]

City builders as well.

[winter coral]

Then please no led bar on a formal product. Yeah I can shut it off… but its a little bit strange. Either do Apple like Design oder do gaming like 60HE.

Knob for brush size is more helpful than blinky leds

Or add element for swapping led or knob

[sage reef]

well it's something that targets everyone really, just not being out of wack as much as 60HE was, with 60% and that external hole with strap

light bar is definitely not as out of wack as 60HE was, or even Q1 layout
if it's done correctly

it would also look pretty niche if they didn't have that second column on right side, would look too minimalistic for formal use

anyway, I think team wooting really nailed it with 80HE pretty much, like they always do. if you just analyze things a bit, not just react.

[winter coral]

Damn you right shift!!! Its 2024, I can find small ones around every second internet corner. Why do you need to be big…I use you 10 times the week

[jolly tangle]

you guys have only seen the layout. there are ||spoilers|| that will be announced later.

[winter coral]

Yeah kickstarter q1 ends in 3 days. Not always optimal to hold infos back.

[jolly tangle]

its alot of money

[winter coral]

Which could be lost due less customers as well.

[jolly tangle]

hey thats their choice

[winter coral]

Sure!

They have a plan

[strong wadi]

hope the plan is to release one he

[verbal solar]

the 2017 keyboard?

[sage reef]

60HE was for gaming, Two HE was for very formal and also those that work with their keyboard.
80HE nicely fits between these two, there is still massive (overlapping) audience for this (also coders that also game), and also those that look for unique designs like these, not just usual boring TKL, 75% compact or exploded.
so no worries, this will sell very good

[strong wadi]

yes but in he version

[verbal solar]

let me get this straight

[verbal solar]

"yes but in he version"

the keyboards called one he

[strong wadi]

called wooting one

never came out in he

[jolly tangle]

they made software changes to make as good as HE

[verbal solar]

ah ok, why would you want a worse version of the 2he?

[strong wadi]

why would you want a fullsize board

[verbal solar]

they are both a fullsize

[strong wadi]

one is tkl

[verbal solar]

buy the 80he then lmao

[strong wadi]

no

[verbal solar]

so you want the worse version of the new one thats coming?

[strong wadi]

worse version lmao

[sage reef]

it is worse version though, have you ever used those right column keys more than 2 of them? 80HE still has 6 of them

[strong wadi]

yes i use them all

[sage reef]

keycaps for del and ins aso will be included, so you can easily remap

oh yeah, Fn key functionality I guess with those is pretty good

[verbal solar]

its a genius idea to not want to buy the tkl thats droppign soon but wants to buy the 5 year old one instead

[humble cargo]

its still far from a HE board

[winged birch]

Exactly this.

[verbal solar]

dont forget to post the 80he

[winged birch]

Steelseries Apex Pro 2019 works, got a Rapid trigger update 3 years after release. Your question “What mayor manufacturer is supporting six year old peripherals?” can mean multiple things. Do you mean a manufacturer that still brings updates to older devices?

[winged birch]

Not allowed anymore.

[verbal solar]

really? lol

[winged birch]

Even in context it isn’t.

🫤

[verbal solar]

because you posted it like 20 times

[winged birch]

Yes, I posted it out of context in reply to doc

But mostly in context when someone else brought ut up.

[verbal solar]

i think everyone konws what it looks like

[winged birch]

But doesn’t matter, just gotta wait for calders reply.

[winged birch]

New people don’t.

[verbal solar]

you dont have to post the picture everytime to a new person

[humble cargo]

can see it on wootings site

[sage reef]

I think you can post 80HE just not your suggestion anymore

[winged birch]

^ @verbal solar

[winged birch]

🫤

[verbal solar]

what

[winged birch]

Someone else brought it up, specifically about the arrow key misalignment.

[verbal solar]

i dont see anyone who brought it up here

[winged birch]

Yesterday brother

[verbal solar]

wouldnt say recently

[winged birch]

I mean that was in context

and I couldn’t post it

All I’m sayin

[verbal solar]

maybe i can post it

[sage reef]

the safe version by @ebon sluice

[verbal solar]

THE KEYS!

[winged birch]

❌

[winged birch]

🤢

[winged birch]

The blank keycaps look nice

That - the massive forehead and aligned arrowkeys is winner of keyboard of the year 2024 easily.

[verbal solar]

i dont see the problem

[winged birch]

Look at the screenshot I sent in dm

Aligned arrowkeys with End and with the RGB strip

[verbal solar]

looked the same

[winged birch]

and a forehead the same size as the other bezels

[proud rock]

Anyone know what the width size difference is between 60 and 80 is in cm?

[jolly tangle]

that has not been announced yet

[verbal solar]

i bet someone will find out

i have a slight feeling its gonna get announced

[winged birch]

You can just calc it if you really wanna know.

[lapis galleon]

isnt that hard either, just take the width of one keycap, multiple it by 16, then just approximate the rest using the keycap width.

[sage reef]

#🌟│wooting80he message

bout key and a half smaller than One

[tranquil void]

apple put a whole ass screen bar on the keyboard so eh

[midnight iron]

I actually didn’t mind that screen bar as much as some people

[tranquil void]

i don't mind it and i don't mine the 80HE leds

[midnight iron]

You could put complex automated macros on the bar and one button press to do really cool stuff on it

[lapis galleon]

thats if they're perfectly aligned

[midnight iron]

I remember I had one button that literally took an image from my Gmail and filed my business receipt with tags and everything lol

[sage reef]

so i measured difference between One and 60HE, it's 71mm not counting strap bulge

[midnight iron]

Honestly people just gotta wait at this point. The layout thing been discussed to death and we need more info on that add on before the conversation can continue

[winged birch]

Yes

[lapis galleon]

plus its just a layout, performance is what truly matters

[winged birch]

I think aesthetics and performance are equally important as people expect nothing less than the TwoHE performance already.

[sage reef]

ok I calculated, 80HE is like ~34.6 cm, 60HE is 29.6

[winged birch]

Wrong

80HE has bigger bezels + 2 extra keys.

That’s only 4.5CM?

[sage reef]

yep

without the strap bulge tho

[winged birch]

Is the 60HE’s 30.2CM with the strap hole?

[sage reef]

something like that

no it's ~30.06 with strap notch

[winged birch]

I got 30.2 from Wooting’s site, I can’t measure it as I have it in a different case.

[sage reef]

yeah saw it too, measured it fully now, it's like 30.16

but I didn't measure 80HE from 60HE tho, but from One, should be more accurate.
so 80HE is about 34.6 cm

[sage reef]

measured more precisely, it's about 34.6 cm

[winged birch]

It’s so close to being perfect man

Size is perfect

width*

[verbal solar]

why am i not surprised about you being here

[winged birch]

??? Where else would I be if not home???

[verbal solar]

this channel is home now?

[winged birch]

It always was

[sage reef]

~5.0 cm longer than 60HE (without strap bulge)

[verbal solar]

What is that thing

[winged birch]

In 2017? That was two years before release?

[abstract vale]

Eh... I hate to say it but this one looks like a big fail to me. Not exactly nice looking. Pause key but no Del (bizarre choice). No knob. Thick bezels. A weird, uncomfortable looking front.

[verbal solar]

uncomfortable looking depends and the del key can be rebinded

[abstract vale]

Not just the angle (or lack thereof), but the embellishment. Of course keys can be rebound, but still... who on earth gives pause priority over del?

And also the fact that you have those small lines that extend past the front.

The whole thing looks like it's form over function, but the form is actually a downgrade.

Oh yeah, and the arrow keys. Why?

[winged birch]

How would you say it looks here? #🌟│wooting80he message

[winged birch]

@verbal solar

Another one.

https://tenor.com/view/too-many-counting-gif-15929632

[verbal solar]

i swear

this needs to end

[winged birch]

It is not over until we win!

[wooden ferry]

boutta start a petition to align those arrow keys

[winged birch]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

#🌟│wooting80he message

[winged birch]

Already happened.

[wooden ferry]

sign me up

[winged birch]

I am banned from posting that picture.

[wooden ferry]

LMAOO

[winged birch]

But man it looks so much better there

@fallow spire has the sink been let it? Any update maybe?

I literally didn’t ping him

Once

Just now.

You say I ping him everyday

Which is not true at all.

[lime aspen]

Oh god wait I just seen the arrow keys I didn't notice that at first

[wooden ferry]

keeps me up every night

[lime aspen]

Thank god im a 60he user

That would drive me insane

[winged birch]

Mansen said It is set in stone, I ask again, he says it “IDK”. Just say no or yes that’s all I ask. If no OK, out of my hands, if YES, great a new keyboard on my desk.

[verbal solar]

mfw patience hits rock bottom

[winged birch]

Not about patience but what is it?

Is it set in stone or not?

What?

[sterile walrus]

uwho

[lime aspen]

Replying auto pings, not exactly his fault

[winged birch]

????

Oh my god

[sterile walrus]

No good?

Oh.

[winged birch]

Okay, I will try to remember to turn off auto ping everytime I reply to your message as it is clearly against the rules, deeply sorry for that.

[winged birch]

.

[sterile walrus]

Offenders will be timed out. Survivors will be timed out again.

[winged birch]

.

[lime aspen]

If only you didn't need a plugin w better discord to have auto ping disabled by default

[lime aspen]

Idk why discord doesn't just have an option for this already

[winged birch]

It literally shows no difference in chat either, you can’t see if someone pinged someone only if you receive a pinged reply.

[lime aspen]

This is very very true

[steady nova]

To be fair, you can turn that off. Case in point.

The whole ping on reply thing should just be opt-in/out

It has uses, but it's effectively the same as just @'ing someone before your message

[verbal solar]

well with a modded client u can

thats abt it

not sure what that is

try vencord its a pretty decent solution

ah

[coral patrol]

i would hold off from ripcord

iirc it hasnt updated and discord marks u has a potential spammer due to unupdated API keys(?)

happened to a friend of mine

[winged birch]

I have never seen someone turn it off before replying as it is in reply to someone. But whatever.

It’s always on as well unless you click it

[upbeat berry]

more the api path prob. keys cant go unupdated as you wouldnt be able to use the api then. but using deprecated versions is an easy spot for sure if you arent a bot

[foggy jay]

Would we be able to change the case on the 80he like the 60he?

[spark hound]

unless someone makes one like it, no. those dont exist yet.

[verbal solar]

hello

[novel pier]

Hello everyone! I bet there already has been some posts like this but I feel that I need to get this off my chest: 80HE layout is straight up strange and silly. Yes, it makes the keeb instantly recognizable, but in the worst way.
I got the OG Wooting One TKL on Kickstarter and really loved it, still have it till this day. And I really hoped to see an HE model with "exploded"/"spaced" 75% layout (or at least TKL again). What I got is weirdly misaligned, partially spaced partially cramped disappointment. I don't know if I will be able to tolerate this OCD horror on my desk. Although I really want some hall effect arrow keys without a numpad in the way.
I really love wooting tech, software and all the past models have been great, but this one made me like "WTF???". And I know I'm not alone, many other people also hoped for a more tried and true layout. Please listen to your community and consider if not changing this one, at least commiting to release 75HE in the future. I'm willing to participate in a Kickstarter campaign again if it helps making it real because I have trust and respect for Wooting engineering, just give people what they waited for so long and it will sell like hot cakes. Can't be so sure about 80HE though.

[pale stump]

I agree with you

[winged birch]

#🌟│wooting80he message

[sage reef]

because I have trust and respect for Wooting engineering
so you should also have more trust in 80HE then, and not react too quickly without analyzing. They will also reveal something new connected to the light-bar and arrows area (that will probably make it look better), and light-bar is also not the final one.

[static yoke]

agree, normal TKL was better then 80HE,80HE sacrifices compatibility with third-party accessories, and didn't get any payback from that.

[sage reef]

80HE is exploring that space between exploded 75 and TKL. it's niche for now, but might become bigger because of this.

[static yoke]

but wooting is wooting, the consistency of gaming performance and the driver is still phenomenon. I would still consider buying one.

[random oxide]

I don't mind the layout, and I'd prefer it to a tkl. That being said I would still prefer a straight up 75%

[supple bloom]

It is what it is

[left warren]

Long time lurker, first time poster:
I "need" arrow keys and F keys for work so the 60 was no option so far. Was really hyped for the release and still am. Yes it does not look the best and an opportunity was missed. But I will still buy it most probably, still waiting for more information especially the price.
The thing is: one of the arguments was standard key caps can be bought (don't really care I don't mod my keyboards, might be important for other). Other argument was that a future product will use the layout and then the arrangement of arrow keys etc will make sense. The problem here is: I really don't care about a future product that I most likely will not use and is not even close to be released.
Maybe I am just not the target group for such a keyboard (not interested in modding nor in future products/gimmicks). All I want is a nice and functional keyboard 😄

[winged birch]

The keyboard is supposed to be a mainstream keyboard like the 60HE is. It’s not supposed to be a product for the few. So yes, you are the target group but you don’t like the keyboard. 🤷‍♂️

Like many others.

[humble cargo]

I don't get why so many hate the layout tbh, especially not among TKL peeps

its like 99% of what they need

[left warren]

For me it just makes no sense to argue that the current layout makes sense because of an additional future product that not everyone will use. If they would announce it at the same time sure would make sense. Everyone would at least understand why the design was chosen and can then decide to buy the additional product or not. But like this it is just a gamble

[winter coral]

Because it's 2024 and somehow already looks outdated. Even my wife said: "Yes, it's a keyboard, don't you already have it?

[buoyant solstice]

[winged birch]

Not hate, I bet you most who want TKL would still buy it if it wasn’t for the Aesthetics.

[humble cargo]

well did you expect them to reinvent the keyboard? you can only do so much with a slab that has keys on it

[left warren]

Well I will still buy it even with the current layout. (if the price and other factors are fine)

[toxic zephyr]

gonna be interesting to see how it sells after all this hate

[next osprey]

no, we just expected a standard tkl or a 75%.

[winged birch]

Exactly the opposite, I expected a generic boring TKL that sells really well.

[midnight iron]

i expect they might explain the other product at some point during the founders campaign

at least I'd hope so

[humble cargo]

tbh that woulda been just as boring to me

[midnight iron]

we still haven't had a proper launch for it yet so it's a bit early to know what they'll actually say for launch

[winged birch]

Calder made it seem like a non issue when talking about the arrowkey misalignment.

[humble cargo]

the typical 75% layout is awful

[midnight iron]

well yeah because he keeps saying it looks ok with whatever this mystery other item is

[next osprey]

surely its more aesthetically pleasing then the 80he though no?

[humble cargo]

aesthetics maybe

usability no

and at the end of the day I care more about how its like to type on vs how it looks

[left warren]

totally agree function > looks

[midnight iron]

end of the day I'm just waiting to see the actual launch so there's something to discuss, because we barely know any details about it right now

[winged birch]

Not quite, he gave a completely different reason when I pointed the arrowkey misalignment out. He said something like but then it’d be misaligned when looking at it from the side. Instead of saying but we have an upcoming product that will make it make sense. That’s why I say he made it seem like a non issue.

[midnight iron]

yeah he said that later in other discussion about arrow stuff with you because you kept spamming the pic lol

because in reality the arrow issue is annoying but not as big a deal as you and others make it out to be

[humble cargo]

80HE isn't perfect for me either but it could be close to with some very small tweaks

[next osprey]

what else hasn't been revealed except price?

[midnight iron]

let it be clear I do not like the layout and think it looks bad, but I'm also not in the club of thinking it's that big a deal

[winged birch]

It is for me and many others as it is literally misaligned.

[buoyant solstice]

It's gasket mounted, and there will be some "technological improvements"

[toxic zephyr]

the gimmick that supposedly makes it all click and be awesome and all haters will catch on fire

[midnight iron]

i agree. I think it looks bad. I also don't think it's a big enough deal as you make it out to be with the spam photo though

[humble cargo]

my only two gripes with it is the misaligned arrow keys and too chonky case

[buoyant solstice]

More information as we creep towards the campaign I'm sure. Everyone's first day back at office today, and we're swamped with catching up on support emails and a bunch of admin.

[winged birch]

I “spammed” doc with the picture. I used it in context every other time.

Which I can’t do anymore.

[verbal solar]

you can not spam me 🗿

[midnight iron]

What we know so far is 2 color options for plastic. 1 Light, 1 Dark. One color option for zinc alloy case, black. It's gasket mount, ks20 standard so should work with lekker/other ks20 options/new lekker 2.0. And we know there's some mystery add-on thing that fits near the arrow/light section that makes the layout look better and interacts with the led somehow

[verbal solar]

i am the motherfucking grindfather

[weary knoll]

wooting will announce Normal TKL layout
but new mold would delay the release for 6 months

would you wait?

[buoyant solstice]

I swear if all we did was listen to community suggestions, it would have double arrow clusters, a macro column on the left AND four knobs with force feedback and an LCD that does the bongocat animation.

[winged birch]

Just TKL tbh.

[humble cargo]

[next osprey]

i feel like this mystery addon thing was announced to take the heat off the shocking layout

[humble cargo]

TKL so ancient

people need to move on already

[verbal solar]

or it was for rich assholes like me to salivate over it harder

[humble cargo]

its so big and bulky one may as well fullsize

[midnight iron]

nah it was mentioned fairly early on

[verbal solar]

1800 is the same size as TKL yet has an entire fucking numpad LOL

[winged birch]

Oh the 1800 enjoyer.

Oh the compact enjoyer.

[verbal solar]

thats what i call love at first sight

[next osprey]

trying to be different

[winged birch]

This is what I call love at first sight: #🌟│wooting80he message

[midnight iron]

yeah this guy is totally not spamming the same thing still lol

[verbal solar]

you are too shy to admit you love me 😏

[random oxide]

Can we get a fan on it to cool our fingers as well please?

[winged birch]

I am abiding by the law stowed upon me.

[buoyant solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/ika-intresseklubben-noterar-antecknar-intressant-gif-16341255

[midnight iron]

he's just going to skirt the line until he eats a timeout lol

[toxic zephyr]

just make the entire keyboard spin for a cooling breeze

[verbal solar]

wooting fidget spinner when

[winged birch]

Spamming has a different definition sir.

[midnight iron]

malicious compliance only works if the people you are maliciously complying with can't just hit you with a timeout because you're being annoying lol

[verbal solar]

@winged birch you still wont admit it, will ya

[winged birch]

It’s not malicious compliance. It’s on topic, not spamming, nor posting the picture.

[midnight iron]

yeah whatever helps you sleep

[buoyant solstice]

Alright lads. Back to your corners.

[verbal solar]

i live and breathe in this channel

[midnight iron]

there's literally no worse way to get people to support a cause than be really annoying about it

[winged birch]

I do too.

[midnight iron]

it's like those people that think stopping traffic on the highway will get people to support them

[verbal solar]

only cuz i allow it

[winged birch]

It’s not a cause brother, people mention it on their own many times when I never said anything about it. It’s an opinion of many I just edited the concept in existence for others to see what it could look like.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

[midnight iron]

no one is saying you can't keep doing it, but you're just alienating the people asking for these changes

Like I'm on your side in that I agree the arrows could look better and I dislike the announced layout. But I'd never want to be on team anomounys because you're doing it such a childish way

[verbal solar]

@winged birch how abt u stop fighting in this channel and start arguing with me in private 🗿

[midnight iron]

making up excuses to keep spamming the layout you want doesn't win any votes from anyone

[winged birch]

Are the reactions on this “alienating”: #🌟│wooting80he message ?

[buoyant solstice]

Y'all three are equally bad right now 😛

"don't spam" they all repeatedly repeated.

[winged birch]

🫤 Alright

[next osprey]

i for one like the chaos

[verbal solar]

theres only 2 here

[midnight iron]

no, he did it right

[verbal solar]

wheres the third

[midnight iron]

He said his piece. did it in a non whiny and thought out way and didn't come off rude about it

[winged birch]

You’re included with me 🥰

[verbal solar]

ye not how that works buddy

u dont acknowledge me

[midnight iron]

anyhow whatever I said my piece, like mansen says i'm just contributing to the same problem now

[winged birch]

I apologized about the out of context posting of the picture in reply to doc already. Show me the message where I was rude explaining my “cause”.

[winged birch]

I do!

You’re always mean to me though.

🥲

[viscid owl]

https://tenor.com/view/spam-spamalert-gif-20933994

[tepid terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/real-and-true-cat-walking-gray-cat-gif-14865986020845776272

[verbal solar]

true

but you are winding me up always 🗿

[sage reef]

have an idea about mystery addon, photoshopping

[winged birch]

Oh no..

[buoyant solstice]

This but instead of numpad.

[winged birch]

https://tenor.com/view/finger-middle-gif-27555608

[verbal solar]

i still love u dw :)

[sage reef]

nah not really sure, there is some curves on the edges and stuff to make some addon slide in or something right, but struggle to really see how an addon like that would stay in place you know, not fall out with more heavy use of keyboard

it's possible some metal addon to slide in both from top or bottom really, depending how you do it, but not sure what will keep it attached well.

[midnight iron]

other guesses were some people thinking the led or some keys pop out and something pops into that area instead

[sage reef]

unless there is a some magnet here, but has to not interfere with HE

[midnight iron]

they also said not to show the back of the transparent case on stream to avoid leaking stuff

so I guess there's something new coming that involves something that can be spotted via the back

[sage reef]

yeah actually makes sense for the maget to sit further down, deeper into keeb, since if it sat too high up, the covering metal surface over it, to the left of it would react the opposite way, and push itself more out you know, or out and up

[winter coral]

Oh I like this format, saw it aswell as ISO; but ofc short right shift.

[midnight iron]

yeah that's the format imo that most people would have liked. The non exploded 75% arrows with just f row exploded

same one the mode sonnet uses which is super clean

[midnight iron]

the transparent board that one of staff showed didn't show any real leaks either so it's been tough to guess exactly how an attachment would mount

this one gives some nice shots of that side

[sage reef]

might be some track on the underside of it that it fits in and keeps in place?

[weary knoll]

it doesnt look that hideous in transparent pc case

layout wise

[winter coral]

but not premium either

[sage reef]

I mean there is some department right here, maybe for magnet

[midnight iron]

could just be the gasket too though

[winter coral]

#🌟│wooting80he message thought about it earlier

some connector?

[elder bobcat]

I want that

[winter coral]

After all the hustle and bustle of the last few days here, this would be my dream setup by now - with wooting tech

[midnight iron]

i'm still trying to figure out how to get a zinc alloy case coated without paying a stupid amount lol

I want the first white metal 80he

[sage reef]

but they already did gaming 60HE, 80HE is more formal uses, like coding and general use. Need to have easily recognizable Del key, and in general bigger and more serious layout

[lapis galleon]

you don’t

[midnight iron]

if only I could do anodizing, but looking it up it seems not doable since it's not alu

otherwise I was going to do gunmetal for it

[winged birch]

What keyboard is this?

[lapis galleon]

you can anodize it but you cant do decorative anodizing

[winter coral]

QK75N

[midnight iron]

yeah it's a pity since Prime is maybe one of the best anodizers in the keyboard world and it's only $50 or less to get a full tkl done here locally

[winged birch]

An addon can be anything, something we can’t imagine but where I struggle is why would mansen say he didn’t know if the layout was set in stone or not and why would calder think about aligning the arrowkeys even. To me that means the addon can still work with a different layout or the the addon is not yet done or something along that line.

[winged birch]

Thanks, it looks really good.

[weary knoll]

spray paint

[sage reef]

but do magnet actually disrupt HE effect or not

[winter coral]

good point

[sage reef]

someone tried holding a magnet over some key? and pressing

[winged birch]

Do you know that process where you put a steel or metal piece in a bucket with water and some other metal to color it. I seen a tutorial on YT before but I don’t remember what the process is called.

[winged birch]

😂😂😂

[winged birch]

It’ll press the key when you hold a magnet over it.

[midnight iron]

there was that one guy who had the secretlabs desk with magnets and it broke his wooting lol

[winged birch]

But on the side like you suggested should be fine and not affect the HE sensors at all.

[midnight iron]

he had to put an extra layer of padding/deskpad on his desk to cover it

[winged birch]

Permanently?

After recal it’s good right?

Or mine was at least

[sage reef]

so then that possible magnet must be pretty weak, but because of its weakness extend deeper into keeb, be taller I guess

but whatever

[winged birch]

I think it can be pretty strong even though it’s next to the arrowkey’s HE sensor.

[midnight iron]

the other clue about it interacting with the led light is pretty interesting

[winged birch]

If the pole doesn’t face the sensor it’s alr I think.

[worn prairie]

I keep checking the announcement page everyday 😞

[midnight iron]

did you sign up for the email thing?

[sage reef]

might be like a diagonal pole?

like on the edge of rectangular magnet

[winged birch]

I think a pole directly up and down works

[winged birch]

digital not too sure

[sage reef]

they can manufacture it so like the poles are diagonally aligned I guess

so this way it would grip addon better too

[winged birch]

I know it

It is wireless

With magsafe 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[sage reef]

poles up and down I think wouldn't hold the addon perfectly in place, from the side would be better (but then interferes with HE?) so then diagonally aligned is the way.

not like completely 45 degrees, just so it's at least a bit diagonal and addon sticks better

[winged birch]

Could be. It’s the best proposition I heard so far for an addon, I’ll give you that.

[sage reef]

i didn't btw see that picture before I made my picture, funny to see compartment exactly where I had it on picture

[novel pier]

layout is not engineering, it's ergonomics and design, which are one tier lower in case of this layout compared to all the other Wooting models

[winged birch]

Yeah I remember you saying time to photoshop or something. 😂

[novel pier]

I have nothing against the light bar (I like it) and I believe functionality on this keeb will be exceptional as always

[winged birch]

Same

[midnight iron]

yeah a lot of the photos on the site are just renders anyway so we gotta see how the actual product photos look when campaign is up

[novel pier]

Good picture! This would've been so much nicer. Although still one less column on the right would be even better IMO, but I'd still buy it if it was as pictured here

also, if the actual product will have as sharp top plate edges as on the official renders it will be troublesome too

overall it heavily leans into form over function

[winged birch]

I don’t mind the missing column, as I don’t use most of them anyway. If the 80HE was that I’d buy it 10 times over man. 🫤

[novel pier]

maybe I wasn't clear, I meant that if they removed one column, they should remove another one to leave just 1

[winged birch]

Oh that could be interesting as well. But wouldn’t the arrowkey stick out if there’s just one column instead of two?

[novel pier]

80HE feels as if they hated receiving so much request for a 75%/TKL board so they decided to fuck around with this one

[sage reef]

until yesterday tho I forgot completely the great and intuitive Fn key functionality on One (TKL) with that right section. this was a great addition to it.

[novel pier]

I don't need right shift to be this wide

arrow cluster can eat it up a bit

[winged birch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1186265045227802714/1191769038217543781/image.png?ex=65a6a468&is=65942f68&hm=3906387e11c84df1c6060fa876aa7ee5dccab7fd58abc75b26f4b9003ef7c663&

Like that?

[novel pier]

kinda, but still spaced by 0.25u

[winged birch]

Yeah I see

[novel pier]

also there can still fit 3 1u keys to the right of the space

I'm fine with wither 2 or 3 keys there tho

[winged birch]

The reason calder gave for not using any unusual layouts is the keycap compatibility.

Like 1U fn, menu and control

[humble cargo]

small rshift layouts are gross

[winged birch]

I disagree, I love 64 and 65%

[humble cargo]

am glad wooting disregarded that crap

[winged birch]

😂😂

Never say never, maybe some day.

Wooting 64HE I can’t wait.

[humble cargo]

you can still have a 65% without botching the rshift

I got one at home

[winged birch]

Hm? Compact?

Where would the up arrow go?

[sage reef]

but you see there, there is no Ctrl key, and if it was there in some compact layout all like 3 keys Alt Fn Ctrl would be small and ugly (and also annoying to press)

[winged birch]

That is not 65%

[humble cargo]

well 70% then or whatever it is

[sage reef]

similar to that on top has been suggested tho

[winged birch]

Yeah something like that.

[winged birch]

It’s personal preference, with the 65% I used I never misspressed because of the 1U keys

Nor did I find them ugly in particular, just unusual at first.

[sage reef]

Del must pretty much right there ok, and there must also be space under Del, won't accept any other stationary keebs than that (60HE has Fn + Backspace which is easy to press quickly, by feel too, still overall not ideal)

[winged birch]

I don’t like that, I like them clearly separated from the main keys, aesthetically.

[winged birch]

I think fn + backspace as del makes it impossible to hit by accident so I also like that haha.

[sage reef]

at least functionally it's still very good

[humble cargo]

I mostly care for usability, its a tool after all

aesthetics come second

[winged birch]

Interesting

[sage reef]

yeah it's better than compact 75% mess, but it's still not ideal, you have to move hand way too much, with default Fn placement.
also don't like having Fn on caps lock, as I use it for caps lock, and in general not to re-program myself

[winged birch]

I’d only buy it for aesthetics and how it’d look on my desk as there will be many HE boards with on par functionality.

[winged birch]

I have my fn directly on the right of my space bar which makes it still a move over with my hand but still easily doable without having to look.

[humble cargo]

for me the wooting software/features were everything, anyone can make a decent looking keyboard these days

[sage reef]

this messes up Fn + arrow keys tho, don't want to use like Fn + wasd as arrows or something

it's about good functionality but also not to re-program yourself too much, since you use other keyboards also, and for future keyboards

[winged birch]

Wooting’s selling point is their firmware, not their hardware. But as we go in 2024 there will be a lot of competition with many new HE boards and probably nearly all features Wooting has to offer.

[worn prairie]

yea

[humble cargo]

I rarely use other peoples keyboards or computers so a remapped keyboard at home is worth it

[humble cargo]

they're still far from as polished or numerous though

wooting is still alone with some features too, like the analog gamepad emu

[winged birch]

ATK68’s comes pretty close, you could even give it a one-up on Wooting as it doesn’t require any software be it installed or web based to make changes.

[winged birch]

Yes.

[winged birch]

I uses the bottom right keys as dedicated arrow keys because I don’t use the bottom right keys for anything and I prefer to have dedicated arrow keys.

[humble cargo]

tbh setting up all the features of a board like this without any software sounds more like pain than anything

[sage reef]

i see yeah

[humble cargo]

for a board this complex I kinda want a gui to set it up

[winged birch]

It’s really quite easy. Well per key rapid trigger is.

[winged birch]

At 2:55 https://youtu.be/SXhzLaN8h5U?si=Nffm4zyRCIZ0vMv-

[sage reef]

not a bad idea I guess, especially since I now remapped AltGr + 7890 to Ø and Æ on ISO (but otherwise it would be too much reprogramming, but also what do you do for AltGr + 2 = @ ?)

iso has more problems you see

[winged birch]

Ohh

Yeah then that’s a problem..

Could you remap AltGr to another key?

CapsLock maybe? 😬

[sage reef]

actually Ctrl + Alt + 2 = @ too though

might get used to that

[winged birch]

Control + Alt = AltGr?

[sage reef]

yeah

[winged birch]

Interesting.

[sage reef]

if you try pressing AltGr with some key-display software, it also gives this output

[worn prairie]

has the over reactiong passed yet?

[winged birch]

I used ISO at school all the time but forgot nearly all of it since I use ANSI now.

[winged birch]

What over reacting?

🤨

[worn prairie]

about the 80he

[winged birch]

Nothing but a civil conversation here sir.

[worn prairie]

yea i mean in general

[winged birch]

It’s fine

[sage reef]

but this takes me to.. I didn't really have to remap {[]} keys to more dedicated, could just press Ctrl + Alt + 7890, easier to access than AltGr + them with one hand

[winged birch]

True

[wooden ferry]

u gettin the 80he if the arrow keys stay where they are?

[winged birch]

No

[wooden ferry]

hahahahha i love how thats the deciding factor for you

[winged birch]

Again, I buy a keyboard mostly for aesthetics.

[winter coral]

He is Not alone

[winged birch]

Yeah, I can’t for the life of me look past it.

[grizzled cove]

i aint buyin

[winter coral]

Most people dont buy a car by its Performance values either

[sage reef]

@winged birch but dedicated arrow keys still not an option tho, I learned the homerow typing method, use right shift regularly

[winged birch]

Well some staff member told me I should voice my opinion with my wallet..

[humble cargo]

I'd prefer the arrow keys moved a bit but my main gripe is the chonker casing

trim those sides down a bit and I'll dig it

[winged birch]

Many do. You use left shift with your left hand and right shift with your right hand?

[sage reef]

yeah

[winged birch]

The only side that is unnecessarily massive is the forehead, the side bezels can’t be much slimmer cause of the gasket mount.

[humble cargo]

I seem to be one of the rare ones who actually use the rshift for typing

[winged birch]

I’m happy that I played games before I learned to actually type, I just use left shift because of that.

[winter coral]

Right shift can be removed on my Board 😅

[winged birch]

My right shift is Arrow Up

🤣

[humble cargo]

I played pc games long before wasd was established as the standard for movement

[sage reef]

esdf is better in some games

[winged birch]

Damn

[winged birch]

Arrow keys then?

[humble cargo]

for a long time yep

wasd started to become a thing sometime after quake released iirc

[winged birch]

I saw a YT vid about it and the guy who made it popular too

https://youtu.be/TPCpXXBHFSA?si=hhYN63eunxTdttjU

[winter coral]

Arent we all from age C64? 🫠

[humble cargo]

I member it was discussed on online forums at the time

[winged birch]

That’s before my time

[humble cargo]

I actually stuck with the arrows for ages until modern games simply had too many binds to accomodate it

[winged birch]

😂😂

[sage reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=092zPDwefYM

[buoyant solstice]

[midnight iron]

wow players might be the most insane with keybinds

specifically the guys who pvp as casters in wow arena

[tight cypress]

Right after Dota Classic players, yeah

[winged birch]

Ark Players:

[humble cargo]

wow players be like 15 buttons is totally normal for a mouse

[buoyant solstice]

He doesn't even use modifier keys for more hotbars. What a casual pleb.

[sage reef]

because of small Shift on ISO tho, ESDF is not like super good because of that, but still fine

[midnight iron]

I used to play/talk to one of the wow pvp goats and his keybind setup was the most absurd thing ever. Literally everything was bound including double modifier + another key

[winged birch]

Your pinky has to make a 90degree turn to hit shift lol

[midnight iron]

But every key had a use since he had to literally bind the same spell up to 6 times depending on the arena target, then do that for a lot of spells

[winged birch]

Flight simulator enjoyers:

😂😂

[tight cypress]

Oh yeah, one of the requirements also being fluent in Lua

[sage reef]

not but seriously, ESDF is legit in many games with many buttons, and in general. opens up many more keys on the left/right side + your index finger sits on the F homerow key with the bump (just when like typing), so you also can find position easier

[buoyant solstice]

Maybe if you have long fingers. I can't reach CTRL at all without shifting my hand, and shift is difficult on ISO.

So that's a net loss of 24 keys

[sage reef]

it's a bit true yeah

[jolly tangle]

Lua developers earn too much

[verbal solar]

lua chads

[sage reef]

need to exercise your pinky

[midnight iron]

esdf ruins using my left alt key too

have to twist my fingers weirdly to use alt + another key

[winged birch]

QWAS is superior to any, 4.5 years on it and it doesn’t get any better than that man.

Q = Left (Ring finger)
W = Forwar (Middle finger)
A = Right (Ring Finger)
S = Backwards (Middle finger)

Your index finger is free

To press any button

[lapis galleon]

its because they have to code in lua

[sage reef]

💀 this way you're cutting off many possible keys on the left tho

[winged birch]

Then you shift it over

To the right

Thing with QWAS is you move with 2 fingers instead of the stupid 3 fingers for WASD

Q = Left (Ring finger)
W = Forwar (Middle finger)
A = Right (Ring Finger)
S = Backwards (Middle finger)

It’s great for MMOs where you need to press a lot very fast

Index finger is the best for that and it’s always free

[tight cypress]

Also makes it harder to strafe
And in most cases you use Q for some kind of action anyways

[sage reef]

@winged birch u also frorget tho that using 2 for movement makes moving harder

[winged birch]

It’s a 35MS difference so for CSGO it could matter but generally doesn’t

and the benefits outwieght the one con by a long shot

unless you’re a pro in cs obv

[winged birch]

I’ve been playing with QWAS since Fn came out

A bit after

Movement is better as you don’t need two fingers to move, you can always move in either direction while using your index for abilities

Switching over is easy as well as it’s a 1 key difference compared to WASD

You should give it a shot

[sage reef]

no, like i said, actually moving is harder then.

[winged birch]

It isn’t

Both left and right are with your ringfinger

leaving your index free to press any key on the right

Which gives you the ability to move either left or right when your index is in use compared to only left (A) when your index is in use on WASD.

[winged birch]

.

It’s fantastic for Fn btw, with edit on D

[winged birch]

https://tenor.com/view/tkt-smart-gif-20642718

Q will be occupied but D will be freed up.

[steady nova]

… Which benefits exactly

[winged birch]

.

[steady nova]

Right, but that’s hardly an actual benefit in most games

[winged birch]

Your movement and your abilities (index) become two individually usable.

[winged birch]

Not at all, nearly all games benefit massively from this

(4.5 years of experiece)

if not more

How old is fn now

[steady nova]

I can’t see a single one where you benefit from it while in action. In Apex your movement would be fucked, in Val and CS you don’t really need the finger free ever.

I suppose you can get mileage in Fortnite with how much ADHD you need to build your hotels whenever someone shoots

Outside of that I don’t see it

[winged birch]

In every game you benefit as your movement and abilities are separate. The only con is that strafing with one finger is a few tens of MS slower than strafing with two (only a con in games that require instant strafing).

You should try it

Then you can form an accurate opinion.

[steady nova]

Again, that benefit is really only a thing in games where you need to move and use movement at the same time, which is basically none of them

In which case the one con of slightly slower strafing is the only actual factor

[winged birch]

Val benefits from it Apex benefits massively from it, CS not so much.

[steady nova]

I don’t really see how most of the advanced movement tech that requires pretty frame perfect taps in Apex benefits from a delay in presses

[winged birch]

Any ability that is not movement is faster on D (your index is always free to press D instantly and is not hindered by movement).

[steady nova]

Val I understand as counter-strafing isn’t big

[winged birch]

Apex’s movement tech works on qwas as it’s timing

The difference between strafing on WASD and QWAS is 30 or so milliseconds.

Timing is far more important for movement in Apex

[steady nova]

I still don’t see the scenarios in which you’d “benefit a lot”. The only thing means you have a finger free to use abilities while you have others for movement, but you never really do movement and ability usage at the same time unless you want to die in 99% or scenarios and games

[winged birch]

You use abilities the entire game for most games.

I’m just letting you know it is better. If you want to try it out or not is up to you.

[steady nova]

Yes, but that won’t be while you’re busy doing movements

Which is what I’m pointing out

[winged birch]

Movement is the most import part of most games, you use your abilities while moving. That’s the whole point..

The only con is not being able to strafe as fast as on WASD (30MS slower)

[steady nova]

Like in Apex if I’m styling on someone, half the time you can’t use any abilities while moving because they can’t be used.

[winged birch]

??? Pathfinder, Wraith

Literally all.

[steady nova]

If you use Pathfinder abilities while you’re doing movement tech, you’re doing something wrong

Same goes for Wraith

[winged birch]

You haven’t touched Apex I don’t think.

[steady nova]

Especially now that she has omega delay on her Q

[steady nova]

It sounds more like you haven’t touched it to me my guy

[winged birch]

I used it

If you don’t want to try it out

it’s your loss mate

I’m just sayin

[steady nova]

I’m not saying you can’t use QWAS for Apex, I’m pointing out it has no benefits unlike in a game like Fortnite where you actually use abilities while moving

[winged birch]

It has a massive benefit in Apex which you will see when you try it as Apex doesn’t benefit from 30MS/less strafing

[steady nova]

You keep saying that, but you have no scenario examples that would prove your point, so it doesn’t really change anything, ya know?

[winged birch]

Which means you can move at all times, when switching weapons, when healing, when throwing nades, when using ult, when using passive

[winged birch]

Every scenario my man

😅

On WASD the moment you take your finger off D to press any button you can’t move right.

It’s that simple.

[steady nova]

See, a lot of scenarios where it just doesn’t matter much, which is what I’m pointing out. The only time you need movement is when you’re getting shot at

[winged birch]

With QWAS that problem is entirely eliminated.

[steady nova]

Being able to move effectively while you’re going at a snails pace healing doesn’t do shit

[knotty sable]

is there any aftermarket case that fits the wooting80he? or look similar

[winged birch]

Probably not

[nova nexus]

might I suggest this conversation to move over to #🎮│game since it has nothing to do with the 80HE

[steady nova]

Probably not yet, would be insane if there was already

[winged birch]

At least not for a while.

[buoyant solstice]

No.

[knotty sable]

other than tofu redux for the 60 is there other good looking cases for the 60?

[steady nova]

Wootings one

[buoyant solstice]

#archived_wooting_60he

[humble cargo]

tofu is good looking?

[winged birch]

It is https://kbdfans.com/products/tofu60-redux-case?_pos=1&_psq=redux&_ss=e&_v=1.0

[humble cargo]

always thought it was boring as heck

[winged birch]

boring sure but it can be very clean

This less boring? https://kbdfans.com/products/holy60-case?_pos=2&_psq=holy&_ss=e&_v=1.0

[toxic zephyr]

maybe go to the respective channel for 60he stuff

[nova nexus]

Please keep this channel to only topics related to the 80HE, otherwise the off-topic conversation drowns out feedback, opinions, and perspectives that our team wishes to read

[humble cargo]

I was told this is the new #💬│general

sorry boss

[nova nexus]

#💬│general is the new #💬│general

[ancient breach]

We have a general, forgot about that, guess I have had it muted for too long.

[steady nova]

Mr_Markbar post more cat in pets

[outer lion]

Did Wooting said something about the bad feedback of the 80HE announce ??

[sage reef]

kind of random wanky design there, but just as an example extending in all areas
curves are hard in photoshop
engulfing like the corner too, could do it in many ways tho, with many custom ones
(the magnet not just like diagonally aligned in one direction, but also in the other, so that addon sticks well to the side and corner (imagine a cube with a line going from one corner to the other, crossing center))

[toxic zephyr]

no

[sage reef]

still not sure they would actually use magnet in vicinity of HE, unless they somehow improved software, so that switches re-calibrates themselves, only having to check on startup tho, and re-calibrate then, not continuously.

[sage reef]

maybe they already have this kind of re-calibration tho, someone test with a magnet near a key (always stationary), how it works, then don't move magnet, unplug and re-plug keyboard, see if key works better than before.

[winter coral]

#🌟│wooting80he message I'm still thinking about the numpad...it would be helpful to activate it when needed.

I had requested that already in other discords…Random idea: docking a Numpad via magnets that you can upgrade to almost 100% during the day at work and put it away in the evening when gaming and transform it to 65/75%. Power supply/internal communication has to be secured, communication in between over hub and MagSafe-Kind of connection.

[sage reef]

except very few would actually be interested in a numpad, and there is already 2HE

[vagrant haven]

All the keys have magnets, so they need to be able to adjust for nearby magnets to some extent.

[humble cargo]

there's also already stand-alone numpads to buy

[sage reef]

I think most of those buying 2HE aren't even much interested in numpad, they're just used to that kind of keyboard and the complete look it has. but 2HE they also bought for those arrow keys, F keys aso.

[buoyant solstice]

Perhaps. Some of us actually use the keys 😄

[humble cargo]

used fullsize for well over 30+ years but numpad is still worthless to me

am not a cashier

I already got a number row thank you

[buoyant solstice]

Mans don't do accounting.

Those spreadsheets will forever be left a mystery.
Budgeting? What's that!

[hexed dawn]

it's only been useful for typing in numbers using blank keycaps for me. otherwise I hardly ever touched that thing. took space where energy drink cans could be

[sage reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwGL4Z__Ufc

[humble cargo]

"sorry luv we have a no calculator policy here, num row only please"

[tight cypress]

Rapid trigger calculator when?

[obtuse wagon]

Its giving me real 90's vibes I can smell my childhood

[hexed dawn]

maybe we need a casio-made tenkey field instead of cutting it off

we had it wrong the whole TIME

[ancient breach]

Meanwhile after I lost mine, I emulated my ti84 plus on a r4 on a nintendo ds.
Did graphs faster too.

[tight cypress]

Mine was some Lidl knockoff Olympia ES-570, twas a good calculator
At the end of its life battery leaked out and corroded contacts, so I soldered 2 wires to PCB and glued them straight to AA battery, it looked like some sort of IED

[ancient breach]

I didn't realize I ended up in IT at the time but should have read the signs.

That moment you complely forget which channel your are talking in, seems it was general 6

[median stone]

is that a full metall case for 60$????

[hexed dawn]

I used a fruity looking version of the TI-82, called TI-82 STATS

[toxic rock]

With the weight bar and shipping sadly it becomes 115

[winged birch]

Pre shipping (and tax maybe) it is yeah.

[verbal solar]

its not 60 bucks lmao

it needs the weight which is an extra 25 then shipping 20 and customs fees

kbdfans site prices are deceiving af

[winged birch]

you are deceiving af too

[verbal solar]

true

[fallow spire]

Thank you for sharing this. If anybody else that hasn’t voiced something has to say something. Now is the time to share.

[winged birch]

#🌟│wooting80he message

[dense barn]

I've wanted to try out a HE keyboard for some time, and have historically used a TKL. I was looking forwards to a Wooting HE TKL, or considering trying a 75 that seems to be all the rage. I'm not a fan of the aesthetics of this iteration, and reluctant to believe that a future addon is what may potentially sway my opinion.

Nevertheless, pending further information over the next few weeks, I will probably still begrudgingly purchase the 80.

[left warren]

^ This is also exactly my take.
In my opinion it makes no sense to "justify" the current layout because of a future product/add-on/feature that not everyone will use/care about and no one (except wooting staff) knows when it will release. Current design choices should be based on current use case.
On the other hand it's nice that wooting is keeping compatibility with future products in mind so you don't have to buy a new keyboard to be able to use the new product if you want to use it.
In my opinion those are the possibilities:

• Current layout allows future product implementation but not everyone will use it and not everyone likes the design.
• Go with a more traditional design / align arrow keys so they don't trigger the inner monks of ocd but lose the compatibility of future product. But this might be more aesthetically pleasing to the majority (?).
• Re-design the future product so it can be matched with a traditional design / aligned arrow keys.
• Re-design current 80he layout as mentioned above. Lose compatibility with future product. Sell new keyboard once future product is available. Everyone that really wants to use the new product is forced to buy a new keyboard. Will also piss some ppl off.
  (probably there are more options but head is already at work)
  Anyway I guess there is no way to satisfy everyone.

[zinc hedge]

Any updates about the 80he board

[viscid owl]

TBH I just wanted permanent arrow keys on the account that some game I occasionally play require them, and that's why I wanted a TKL.
The 80HE gives me what I wanted, but I have to admit it's an odd duck. going seems this new layout eliminated only 3 keys compared to a TKL layout, and although I know there isn't a real standard for TKL keyboard cases it still would have been easier to find and modify a TKL case for those that wanted it. It's hard to envision the 80HE forming a new standard of keyboards that other manufacturer's will adopt and spread create product allowing 80HE customers to customise their keyboards.

If the addon is meant to be a selling point, perhaps the addon should have been revealed with the 80he, I suspect the addon is a numpad which contains the remaining keys and it would fix the issues many have.

I plan to purchase the 80HE despite the oddities and above issues, because I really do want arrow keys, and I don't mind them all that much.

[vagrant haven]

I’ll echo the sentiment of the idea of the layout being something I’m interested in, that being arrow keys and some additional modifiers (del, pgup, pgdn, etc). But the current layout is just incredibly strange to look at. Even with an addon module it would still look odd because at best the arrow keys would be alone in being oddly aligned, but it may also result in the addon being weirdly aligned which would also look odd.

I’d much prefer if you just shifted the arrow keys to the right to align them with the rest of the board. If it resulted in the add on not being compatible then I’d honestly just prefer a wider bezel than misaligned keys. And I can’t say if that’s worth it or not given that I don’t know what the module would be.

I have faith in what the engineering team cooks up, but as the dish sits right now it looks off.

[winged birch]

Not yet, Calder is letting the sink in still.

[verbal solar]

can u remove urself from the channel

[weary knoll]

average discord moment

[winged birch]

I reside here, like you.

[midnight iron]

The only thing that really disappoints me about the decision behind the layout is they seem to put way too much value on the keycap compatibility thing.

I understand that it’s a legitimate factor to have better compatibility with extra side buttons for your home del etc keys, but there’s zero chance most people would pick that small keycap compatibility issue over just having a more pleasing layout

[weary knoll]

only benefit of doubt i could give them is gamer keyboard target gamer
and assume they only use pudding keycap that has only ansi 104 layout

but that compatibility was like 2017

also like who would put home at r4 and end at r1 lol

[winged birch]

Wooting also sells compatible keycaps so it’s just that it’d be a tiny bit harder to find 3rd party keycaps.

[winged birch]

They prob didn’t think much about it as it comes with all keycaps you would put there.

More like a placeholder than anything I’d assume

[weary knoll]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WootingKB/s/VGv0a7vIXp

for me, they made bad decision

[midnight iron]

Just feels like they didn't really take into account that the market of people who want a more pleasing layout is magnitudes bigger than the people who care about their home keycap not matching row height

[winged birch]

I saw, is that your post?

[rough nova]

excuse my poor editing skills.
this is what a standard 75% would normally be

[weary knoll]

i thought it was your lmao

[winged birch]

Shush, 😂😂

[midnight iron]

I don't really like that reddit post despite the fact I agree with the layout being bad. It's a large strawman to say wooting chose the layout for money and whoever wrote it doesn't realize that mounting systems would be different even if layout was the same as another case

[winged birch]

The arrow are still misaligned here and if you’d align them with that column it’d look really weird as well.

[weary knoll]

for me keycap compatibility problem
1st: 40s
2nd: 7u and 1.5u bottom row
2nd problem is barely exist now except you buy outdate set

[rough nova]

thats how most 75% are, you have to realize that

[midnight iron]

That post feels like they just randomly made up some baseless reasons for why wooting picked the layout, then argued against them as if it represents wooting. In typical reddit fashion most of the posts under it don't realize the OP just made up the reasoning

[winged birch]

Wooting did not choose this layout for money, they could’ve made a TKL that’s already done before and be done with it. It’s not a money thing.

[weary knoll]

both side seem half right for me
it is like

1. TKL doesnt has much universal case like 60%
2. but TKL is better regardless

[rough nova]

jelly epoch/ jelly evolve

[midnight iron]

yeah I'm on the side of the layout sucking, but the post is very poorly articulated and very poorly reasoned

[rough nova]

you can move the LED down to get one extra key. but realistically you arent going to get more symmetrical

[midnight iron]

this is pretty much the layout i was wishing they'd do the whole time. Mode sonnet/zoom75/jelly evolv style 75% with non exploded arrow key that is super popular for being clean and nice

[winged birch]

From how I understood the post the person is mainly upset because they wanted a TKL and thought Wooting knew everyone wanted a TKL.

[rough nova]

right most people in the custom keeb scene, when they think of the 75%-80% layout. its those boards just that you just mentioned

[weary knoll]

75% is being debate in 7v/q1 layout vs sonnet/zoom75 layout

enthusiast seem to like 7v/q1 layout more

but the market said sonnet/zoom75 layout

[rough nova]

nah

[weary knoll]

i like sonnet/zoom75 layout

[rough nova]

i say other wise, when i see the more exploded 75% layout

i immediately see the gmmk pro

[midnight iron]

I think the exploded 75% is just older so more companies produce it, but even a lot of enthusiasts prefer the non exploded arrow keys now

[weary knoll]

i used q1 before it is fine

[rough nova]

which pisses me off

[weary knoll]

gmmk pro

[winged birch]

Also Wooting’s layout is not new, only the misaligned arrowkeys I have not seen before but there are many other keyboards with a similar layout.

[verbal solar]

this needs to stop

[winged birch]

Obviously, but the layout is similar.

[midnight iron]

unfortunately I think wooting might be too deep into schedule to change anything serious even if they wanted to, unless they're willing to delay the keyboard for awhile

[winged birch]

There’s one with F-Row as well

[rough nova]

ikki68 layout, the finalmouse centerpiece has that same layout. its not my favorite

[winged birch]

I don’t think so, if that were true why even consider?

[weary knoll]

they probably have mold already

[rough nova]

finalmouse has it more spaced out which is interesting

[weary knoll]

[vagrant haven]

Didn’t ducky release a 65% like this? The Ducky SF iirc?

[winged birch]

Yeah similar also.

[midnight iron]

considering doesn't mean they can change things right away. They might consider for future release or update etc. but to change molds and everything at this stage might be crazy pricy

[winged birch]

Many 65% are like the 80HE without the F-Row

[rough nova]

i mean it will be a good performing keyboard regardless of the layout.

[winged birch]

We’ll see

[winged birch]

No doubt about that.

[midnight iron]

for sure, I think it'll still sell well. Not as well as it would have with a better layout but it'll still perform and sell well

[winged birch]

I hope so.

[rough nova]

but people did want a TKL which is still a 80% board

just not in the standard layout that people wanted

[midnight iron]

honestly their naming scheme going to confuse people the most

since 80he isn't a 80% but rather a 75/76%

[rough nova]

right.

[winged birch]

They need to quit the % and just name the keys it has. Way better IMO.

[rough nova]

108 keys = full size
87 keys = TKL
83-84 keys = 75%
67-68 keys = 65%
61 keys = 60%

[vagrant haven]

I’d be shocked if they released a TKL, 75, or even a 65 with the 80HE on the market. The layout market is basically 60%, 60+arrow keys (65/75/TKL), and full size.

[rough nova]

different layouts yield different amounts of keys

[midnight iron]

yeah the issue is they'd be stuck between a rock and a hard place if they were to release another 75%/tkl style layout right after

[winged birch]

I think Wooting 61HE, 108HE would be better or more consistent at least.

[rough nova]

taht would just be weird

its weird because the wooting60 is based off the percent off of the layout

[winged birch]

Then what is the 80HE?

[rough nova]

the wooting 2HE is just the full size

and then the wooting80HE, actually has the amount of keys

i never took to count the wooting80he keys because im lazy

[winged birch]

Does it have 80 keys?

[rough nova]

im just assuming

[midnight iron]

my hope is just that whatever this addon thing they have designed for the 80he, that it doesn't make the keyboard wider than a tkl

because having to put it on my keyboard but making it wider than a tkl defeats the whole purpose

[vagrant haven]

I think their naming is fine. They’re not going to release anything close enough for confusion cuz why would they bother releasing a product that is the 80HE + 3 keys?
They’re either going to release the 80HE as their TKL offering or if that doesn’t work they discontinue it and release a TKL. There’d just be too much overlap to have two products that similar in the same brand, one would be so redundant it wouldn’t be worth maintaining the tooling.

[rough nova]

its off percentage

87/108 is 80% roughly

its not off the keys

the wooting80he is missing 4 keys from a standard TKL

[winged birch]

84 keys, so no.

[midnight iron]

I think the unfortunate thing for them too is the timing because a lot of people went and ordered the q1 he after not liking the 80he layout. That's despite the fact that it's not out yet and their rapid trigger software may not even be smooth at first

so some chunk of customers are already committed to a keyboard by the time their founders campaign comes out

[rough nova]

hey everyone im today im using the wooting77.77777777777777777HE today

[winged birch]

But that is business though, it’s unfortunate maybe but they really should account for that now that they’re no longer in a competitionless environment.

[midnight iron]

well yeah I'm not saying it's not their fault. Just a bit unfortunate for them is all

[winged birch]

😅

[winged birch]

It is and business is a tough game especially in a competitive market. 2024 will be very interesting to say the least.

[vagrant haven]

Eh. I don’t think that’s the reason they would/wouldn’t redo the 80HE. I think they could redo tooling and stuff but they’d be looking at productions delays similar to the 60HE, but suuuuuper early after the announcement which would be a bad look. But at the same time they’re dealing with a lot of backlash from… the bad look of the board. So it’s just a tough spot to be in

[midnight iron]

oh no this wasn't in response to your thing

[winged birch]

That’s why I’m saying, Wooting 61HE, 108HE and 84HE.

[midnight iron]

just a side note

[winter coral]

Good morning and thank you for your request.
First of all I would like to thank you and your team for your work, noticeable commitment to high quality keyboards and progressive ideas. I'm a person who only buys a new keyboard every few years, but then spends a good 400-500 EUR on a keyboard. I don't really mod at all, I just buy a nice set of keycaps and then enjoy the design I've chosen every day. My equipment here cost several thousand euros and is all about design and quality, as I spend a lot of my time here.
My requirements are:

• Quiet keys, as I work 4 days a week in my home office and type for several hours in meetings accordingly.
• If it fits in with my family, I also play games (Shooter, RPG, MMO, etc.)
• My new target figure was around 75%, as I definitely want to get away from my 100%. I work a lot in Excel and therefore use my Numpad quite often, but I would buy an additional one so that I can move it to the front if necessary.
• Priority: design = function, for me both elements are equally important. I find a lot of beautiful keyboards where the technology and software are not right. It's the same the other way round - good technology but terrible design.

---

I've been waiting a good 16 months for your product because I was full of hope that you would deliver the holy grail. A symbiosis of technology, function and design.

Things turned out differently than expected; I just get straight to the point and am quite direct about it:

• The design already looks outdated and interchangeable. I don't need "sweeping lines" on the side when everything else is rather rectangular and elegant. Furthermore, it looks more like an OEM board, which is what I would find in the company. Even if some argue with "formal" - we are enthusiasts and long for high-class design language.

• The placement of the buttons on the right-hand side "looks" unimaginative and unsorted. I am aware that you have reasons, but that is the external perception. It's always a problem when you have to "explain" design and third parties don't understand it themselves. Everyone who comes into my office sees this unsightly arrangement.
• I can imagine that you wanted to stand out from the crowd and therefore wanted to choose something new. This is not always the royal path, as many people had hoped for an upgrade of the other popular formats on the basis of your 60% success. European quality in 75% and TKL formats that can be bought blind.
• Sticking to the right-hand fully embossed shift key may be your personal concern, but it is no longer a valid main argument. Either people buy your board and leave the keycaps on, or we customers look for suitable keycaps and invest accordingly. I have found a lot of nice and high quality keycaps where the reduced shift keys are now always included in the package. Maybe that was a problem 2 years ago, but now it's almost irrelevant.
• The LED bar looks completely worthless and either the money would have been better invested in a price reduction or a quality upgrade. Who needs visual confirmation of how deeply I have pressed the keys in this area? I'm looking at the monitor and not at the keyboard. RGB has fallen into disrepute anyway, now that everything just flashes.
• No changes to the switches, whereas Gateron is now upgrading to KS-37b.

---

In terms of design, I would have rather hoped for the design language of the QK75N. Unfortunately, poor software and outdated switch technology. If I had the choice, I think I would rather wait another year and wait for an improved version of your 80HE.
That was a lot of negative stuff. You are a very good company and have a really good reputation. You can be very proud of that! I and some others were just expecting something epic. I'm now aimlessly searching the market to see if alternative products will appear in 2024.
I just frustratedly invested in the Q1 HE on Kickstarter after the 80HE disappointed me. Not a great solution either.
Nevertheless, I wish you every success.

[rough nova]

im not reading allat