also-manga

[prisma yacht]

oh wait was it before

[cosmic hamlet]

The backlash could be on the lower side, like 1% or 10% of how it is for contracts. Also it depends on how strong character was defeated because imu needs to give more power for stronger characters

[grand flower]

Luffy’s journey starts with Koby

[cosmic hamlet]

Can you show the panel?

[grand flower]

First friend Luffy meets

[prisma yacht]

no im very lazy

[mighty quarry]

Did he meet Gaimon before Koby?

No after, right

[grand flower]

First biggest and second biggest storylines began with Luffy and Koby meeting

[prisma yacht]

first koby then gaimon

[high wolf]

No

[cosmic hamlet]

Okay, like i said. I just checked the chapter. I don't see imu after dorry and broggy killed themself

[buoyant comet]

Nah turns out I was wrong, he wasnt stated to be the deuteragonist. But unlike koby he was implied to be the secondary protagonist

[grand flower]

Koby was the first friend Luffy made when he left the island

[high wolf]

Yep

[grand flower]

You don’t need Oda to imply Koby is the deuteragonist

You can just look at his role in the story

[fossil nimbus]

Isn't a 2nd main character the deuteragonist?

[prisma yacht]

ok ur wrong anyways

[grand flower]

The thing about Zoro being the deuteragonist is the outcome of his story is a lot less significant to the world than the outcome of Kobys

And the outcome of Kobys is directly tied to what happens with the OP

[grand flower]

And his started with Luffy’s

Well from a reader standpoint

Luffys adventure kicks off by kicking off Koby’s

[cosmic hamlet]

Its okay if I'm wrong, i will just learn

[grand flower]

Don’t do that

[high wolf]

What is happening?

[buoyant comet]

Koby is literally the definition of talent he unlocked observational haki with minimal training

[high wolf]

Why is cyg acting different?

[grand flower]

That’s not really talent, Haki can just do that under intense enough stress

Koby himself talks about how he has no talent

That’s why he works 300x as hard

[buoyant comet]

Zoros role is more crucial and important to the story than Kobys role. It always has been and it always will be

[cosmic hamlet]

What is the discussion about? Whether koby reaches luffy level?

[grand flower]

It’s really not

[ornate tartan]

explain this

[high wolf]

Koby being the deuteragonist

[grand flower]

Zoro becoming WSS doesnt really have any consequences for the world at large

[ornate tartan]

one piece doesn’t have a traditional deuteragonist

[prisma yacht]

koby trained intensely for 2 years

[ashen perch]

He's the 2nd main character but Oda means that literally, he's the 2nd of the 10 character main cast. Sandman was being a sensationalist attention seeker again.

[grand flower]

Kobys story is directly tied to the reformation of the government and navy

[grand flower]

Yeah I agree

That’s why i say Koby is the closest

[buoyant comet]

Zoro helping make Luffy become the PK is more important than anythin　Koby will ever do

[high wolf]

Yep

[ornate tartan]

with that argument the whole strawhat crew is the deuteragonist

[ashen perch]

Which it is

[buoyant comet]

That's your interpretation but odas interpretation is that a character like ryuma aka Zoro is the secondary protagonist

[cosmic hamlet]

I think there are multiple people who will be deuteragonist

I can think of koby, sabo, maybe dragon, law, bb

[grand flower]

That’s luffys story and it makes Zoro a secondary main character just like the other SHs

[buoyant comet]

Fuck it why not I don't see a problem with that

[grand flower]

Zoros story is becoming WSS

[high wolf]

Koby is the closest to being the deuteragonist imo

[cold steppe]

Also zoro is following luffy

[grand flower]

That’s not as significant as Koby beint the future of the reformed Navy

[cold steppe]

It needs to be another road

[grand flower]

Yeah exactly

It’s not just interpretation Clay

We have like, a rubric for what a deuteragonist is

[shy monolith]

The Straw Hats are all main characters
Zoro is the second because he's the second Straw Hat

[buoyant comet]

All the straw hats are major characters who provide more to the story than Koby does. If you wanna talk about world impact then I guess Imu is the protagonist and not luffy because his decisions impact the one piece world more

[cosmic hamlet]

Sabo is as close as koby representing revolutionary army from the front

[pine ridge]

vivi will end up being the 2nd most important character after luffy

[shy monolith]

tell me one thing Imu did that impacted the world more than Luffy did

[buoyant comet]

Creating the world government killing Joyboy annexing multiple nations 😭😭😭😭

[ornate tartan]

shuron is right, koby is the closest

[shy monolith]

those were 20 monarchs, we have no proof Imu was even one of them

we have no proof he killed Joyboy

and what nations?

[buoyant comet]

20 kings whos superior is Imu

[grand flower]

Nvm a deuteragonist can be a companion but I still think it’s Koby due to the sheer scale of his plot and how it starts

[ornate tartan]

that was already stated to be shanks by people who know the ending of one piece, film red director

[cosmic hamlet]

I only half agree with shuron as i think koby and sabo both have equal importance as second protagonist

[buoyant comet]

No proof that imu is one of them is crazy

[shy monolith]

can you prove Imu was that real quick

[ornate tartan]

actually they said he’s just as important as luffy to one piece

[shy monolith]

Lowkey it's Koby - Sabo - Luffy who will change the world

[high wolf]

I can see this

[buoyant comet]

You don't need to be spoonfed everything Imu didn't rule over the WG for 800 years just for you to say nah we need proof 😭 his knowledge alone of the void century is proof

[pine ridge]

I'm sure the fact that they were making a movie about shanks didnt influence this statement

[shy monolith]

Robin knows about the Void Century

Ohara knows about the Void Century

[cosmic hamlet]

They don't know the complete details

[shy monolith]

the Elders know about the Void Century

[buoyant comet]

Robin doesn't know about titi, she didnt even know who Nika is lmao

[cosmic hamlet]

Only some %

[prisma yacht]

Bro said titi

I'm cryin

[buoyant comet]

They were literally unaware of Luffys df powers and why imu wanted it destroyed 😭

[shy monolith]

genuinely there is nothing confirming Imu founded the world government

[prisma yacht]

😭😭

[high wolf]

[cosmic hamlet]

You mean lili?

[buoyant comet]

Ah fuck lmao I confused her for vivs mom

[grand flower]

For the Imu thing, that’s not how it works because he’s an antagonist lol

Zoros atory is becoming the WSS

Kobys atory is the reformation of the Navy and by extension the entire WG

How is the former bigger than the latter?

[cosmic hamlet]

Vivi's mom is titi

[cosmic hamlet]

Shuron, you don't agree that sabo is as important as koby?

[buoyant comet]

No I think you're confusing Kobys role for Dragon/Sabo.

Koby hasn't done anything literally anything to reform the marines or oppose the WG. If anything he's content with it, especially given the fact that he's now willing to go after Luffy for pursuing the one piece.

[buoyant comet]

Nerona Imu a monarch from the void century. The only guy alive rn who's controlling the WG and the Gorosei who literally lived for centuries.

[shy monolith]

He's not going after Luffy

he's going after the One Piece

there's a difference

[buoyant comet]

"Luffy I'm gonna have to stop your dream from coming true" yeah man totally sure

[cosmic hamlet]

As much as i love for koby to be second protagonist. The execution so far is not up to mark. Unless oda gives him sudden spike

[shy monolith]

He's going to have to stop Luffy's dream

because Koby is going after the One Piece

anyone who wants the One Piece is trying to stop Luffy's dream from coming true

[buoyant comet]

And anyone after the one piece is obviously going to have to fight Luffy for it 😭

You think luffys gonna say alright koby you can have it

[cosmic hamlet]

Actually no, they just need to gather 4 road poneglyphs without encountering luffy

[fossil nimbus]

Doesn't Koby just want to become an admiral. Has he ever said anything about reforming the navy, I mean fuji is the person who actually wants to reform the navy or am I misremembering?

[shy monolith]

except Koby wants to get the One Piece

then leave

he doesn't want to pull up against Luffy

[buoyant comet]

Koby doesn't even know what the one piece is, he just wants to prevent any pirate from acquiring it aka he wants to prevent Luffy from acquiring it since Luffy is a pirate

[jade rain]

He was never meant to be the second protagonist lol, would just be the one representing a faction in the story

[shy monolith]

yeah preventing the pirates by taking it for the navy

[cosmic hamlet]

I think all 3 (luffy, koby and sabo) will be protagonist representing its own factions. Its just that luffy will have upper hand over the other 2. Hence luffy is first and the other 2 are second

[prisma yacht]

stupid sabo

[shy monolith]

at ts point Shanks is more important to Luffy's dream than Zoro ngl

[prisma yacht]

he shld be dead soon

[buoyant comet]

He'll end up fighting Luffy for it. Koby doesn't have any shred of intelligence about the poneglyphs whereabouts, he's not influential enough to get them, he's not powerful enough to stand up to YC1s let alone one of the strongest yonkos.

[cosmic hamlet]

Sabo made vivre card for luffy

[buoyant comet]

https://tenor.com/view/benjammins-trash-take-trash-statement-clowned-clowned-him-gif-17367315672127505120

[shy monolith]

You think Koby meant he's going to do it by himself

😭

[pine ridge]

at this shit point

[shy monolith]

no one except Mihawk goes to do their objectives solo

[cosmic hamlet]

Just luffy being protagonist is enough to make his main crew as psuedo protagonist. They don't need to be second protagonist or something

[jade rain]

That doesn't make them protagonist, dragon is the representative for revolutionary or bb for the antagonist pirates, neither are protagonists

[buoyant comet]

Koby won't even be permitted to participate he's literally a S.W.O.R.D member. Navy won't help him out

[vale heath]

That’s what SWORD is though?

[shy monolith]

Does the fact that S.W.O.R.D have more than one member eclipse bro

[cosmic hamlet]

Dragon is old generation, just like garp and roger. Koby, sabo and luffy are new generation

[buoyant comet]

They act independently

[vale heath]

He quite literally can go strike out on his own

That’s what SWORD is

[buoyant comet]

None of sword members can do allat too, what r u tryna tell me that tashigi is gonna be able to read poneglyphs 😭😭😭

[shy monolith]

all they need is the VOAT

and they good brodie

[buoyant comet]

That's my point...

[dense haven]

WOBY

[vale heath]

I have read the above backwards, indeed
My mistake

[jade rain]

I doubt there are old gen new gen for revolutionary, only way would be if dragon retires or dies early which i doubt since if he is dying then it's at the end

[prisma yacht]

Woby

[cosmic hamlet]

It will take another 100 chapters for koby to appear again

[high wolf]

WOBY IS GONNA SAVE THE MARINES

[buoyant comet]

They need to infiltrate Whole Cake Island, Wano, and find Zou and TMMBF. They literally can't get a single poneglyph

[shy monolith]

imagine Akainu gets oneshot by an attack called "Decency Punch" tho

[cosmic hamlet]

Dragon has always been on the side lines, its sabo who was leading from front and doing things

[cosmic hamlet]

Are you satisfied with how koby character has been executed so far?

[shy monolith]

WCI is basically free for SWORD
Wano lowkey is too
Use a Vivre Card of that one Mink Marine
what is TMMBF

[balmy field]

so this is where evryone is huh!

[high wolf]

Not really

But I'm fine with waiting for more koby

[buoyant comet]

Not even the WG wants to risk going to Wano and you're tryna tell me SWORD can infiltrate it 😭😭😭

[high wolf]

I'm fine with it

But I'm not satisfied yk

[cosmic hamlet]

When do you think that will happen?

[buoyant comet]

Also TMMBF is the man marked by flames

[shy monolith]

Kaido is dead bro

[high wolf]

Soon

After elbaph potentially

[shy monolith]

luffy has no shred of intelligence where that guy is either

so moot point

[fossil nimbus]

The main reason they didn't go to wano was because of the samurai

[shy monolith]

Ts was about Ryuma solely btw

[buoyant comet]

AND YET THEY STILL DONT WANT TO INVADE WANO

[balmy field]

cuz shanks is coming to get HAKI KNOTS of KAIDO

[jade rain]

Dragon is the commander and sabo does stuff based upon the orders from dragon. In the future we will have more dragon plot than sabo

[shy monolith]

Because there's an Emperor on there

[cosmic hamlet]

How many chapters left for elbaf approx?

[shy monolith]

the man who defeated Kaido is STILL on Wano

[buoyant comet]

Not a moot point since Luffys network of intelligence is vastly more powerful than Kobys. The acquaintance he has are more likely to provide him with information regarding to TMMBF compared to Koby.

[high wolf]

Not more than 20-25

[cosmic hamlet]

We will have to wait and see but sabo will be the forefront according to my speculations

[balmy field]

100

[shy monolith]

prove his network knows any shred of intelligence about this man

[cosmic hamlet]

So imu will run away and we will wrap up elbaf soon?

[high wolf]

Idk what'll happen

But yeah, elbaph is close to ending

I mean,

15 chapters is about right

[buoyant comet]

The WG was planning to invade wano regardless of Luffys presence, they only turned back when they found out the borders weren't going to open

[balmy field]

no bro ig still 30 chapters

[jade rain]

Well we will have a backstory for dragon for sure and sabo would play a role like marco to WB in marineford is my speculation

[shy monolith]

because it's too troublesome
It's smarter to turn back, wait for the Emperor to leave, and then open the borders forcefully

[buoyant comet]

Law has information regarding the man marked by flames. Gaban accompanied Roger and returned the final poneglyph he's most likely aware of its location, and has asked Luffy to visit him when hes journey ends on elbaf.

[buoyant comet]

The borders can only be opened by Zunesha or an ancient weapon. 2 things that SWORD don't possess

[shy monolith]

Law isn't in Luffy's network bro

[shy monolith]

or maybe they just get blown up

who knows

who knows

[buoyant comet]

He has literally made an alliance with him are you fucking kidding me.

[cold steppe]

That's over

[graceful grove]

they can learn info about man marked by flames by offering a row boat and putting in a good word with giants for Kid pirates(whatever is left of it).

[pine ridge]

honesty impact >>>>>

[buoyant comet]

They still know each other, Law would be more than willing to share information with Luffy considering the debt he owes to Luffy. I'm talking about the nature of their relationship, Law is clearly Luffys friend.

[graceful grove]

Bepo would sell that info to chopper for another bag of sulong drugs

[shy monolith]

Law would slime out Luffy for the One Piece btw

[balmy field]

man carried by flame is gonna be someone like jack sparrow

[graceful grove]

it will be if oda is a good writer

[cosmic hamlet]

What else will happen? Luffy defeats imu? Imu defeats luffy and take control over elbaf?

[cosmic hamlet]

Agree to disagree then

[grand flower]

Koby being in SWORD is Koby acting against the WG. The entire premise of sword are marines who recognize the WGs flaws and want to work outside of them as much as they can

[buoyant comet]

The World Government themselves created SWORD so that they wouldn't be liable to the actions of more radical marines. There isn't conventional proof that indicates that SWORD is acting against the WG.

[vale heath]

What if I invaded Wano

[buoyant comet]

You'd become the shogun in 2 hours

[grand flower]

@cosmic hamlet @buoyant comet @fossil nimbus Sabo, Dragon and the Revos are the main vehicle behind taking down the CDs, yeah, but Koby is a direct face attached to the future of the institution itself. We don’t know if Dragon or Sabo will become part of the new Government structure. Dragon probably would if he doesn’t die, Sabo will probably adventure to write his book.

But Koby will continue to be Navy as an Admiral. Koby is the representation of what the good future of the Navy will look like. The reason that extends to the WG is that good future can only happen with the WGs reform. The way Garp refused becoming an Admiral because of the CDs, Koby will be able to become an Admiral completely dedicated to Justice the way Garp never had the chance to be

[vale heath]

I’m with clayoreus on this one, at present SWORD is just a plausible deniability pipeline and not (yet?) a dedicated anti-WG subset

It can become one later, and very well might

But it is not in this moment

[grand flower]

You guys are looking at it one way

That’s why the Government accepts sword being a program

[cosmic hamlet]

Good point but second protagonist doesn't depend on what happens after series is over 👀

[grand flower]

The marines in sword join so they can disobey the WG

[cosmic hamlet]

Its about what they contributed for the change

[grand flower]

Theyre in there because they want to do things the government won’t be happy about

[grand flower]

I don’t think so, I think it’s more about the face of the plot line

Because tons of people are going to contribute equally

Dragon, Garp, Shanks for example

They’re all going to do or have done very significant things to create the good future

But Koby is still the face of that good future on the WG side

The face of that in the pirates side is Luffy

Zoro isn’t the face of anything

[vale heath]

Zoro is the face of Zoro

Check mate

[grand flower]

That’s why Koby and Imu are paralleled in the Egghead spread

They have the same panels on the mirrored sides

[vale heath]

https://tenor.com/view/roronoa-zoro-zoro-sword-slash-haki-gif-23559358

See there’s his face right there

[grand flower]

Because Imu represents the corruption of the WG from the past

Koby represents the corruption-free future of the WG

Koby is our representative for what the WG can be without Imu

So he’s the deuteragonist

[buoyant comet]

Is Koby really attached to the future of the institution or is he just a party of that institution that isn't corrupted. Because I haven't seen Koby take any effort to try and reform the Marines?

That role belongs to Fujitora who has actively been acting against the higher ups to improve the marines functionality and disable systematic abuse that has allowed for civilians to be abused and permitted pirates to exploit their leeway with the WG.

[cosmic hamlet]

I don't know if WG will even exist after the war. Only navy/marines will exist where koby probably will lead but I don't expect him to be solo. There will be others like fujitora, grus, smoker,

[grand flower]

We know it will

The Revos have said they’re not after the government

Just the CDs

[cosmic hamlet]

Why is WG needed? Isn't navy enough?

[grand flower]

Dragon has said many reasonable ans good kings exist

Oda has made sure to introduce us to them

[cosmic hamlet]

WG is CD, who else is there in WG?

[grand flower]

Like Riku, Neptune, Kobra

Lemme finish

[buoyant comet]

Koby literally doesn't

[cosmic hamlet]

So WG will exist just for the reverie that happens every 4 years?

[buoyant comet]

Smoker and Fujitora have done more to the corruption of the marines than Koby has ever done

[grand flower]

Yes he does because Koby's righteousness represents what the Navy should be, Koby is just too naive to implement it effectively yet

[grand flower]

The WG will exist as what it's supposed to be on paper

Countries gather together to pool their resources to protect themselves against pirates and criminals, and to facilitate trade

[cosmic hamlet]

Garp doesn't want someone above navy commanding them. 👀

[still mason]

I think the first time he tried to make a change was when he stood up to Akainu-san at MF

[grand flower]

That's not Garp's problem at all

Garp's problem is the current leaders are scumbags

The WG has to exist because the Navy needs funding

And that funding will be what it's supposed to be now

[cosmic hamlet]

Okay, WG can exist to decide the overall kingdoms decisions but they shouldn't command navy. The navy should be its own individual running based on hierarchy

[grand flower]

Countries taking a portion of what they have and making a fund

[grand flower]

That's not how it's gonna work

The Navy is the military of the WG

The WG funds the Navy

That's not a problem if you weed out the CDs

As long as the Navy can help any island they want regardless of affiliation and the funding doesn't overtax the countries like it does now, there isn't a problem

[prisma yacht]

Warp

[grand flower]

this is pretty blatantly what's going to happen since these are the main conflicts

wrong quote

[cosmic hamlet]

[grand flower]

that's very clearly what we're headed to

[cosmic hamlet]

What will happen to good CD's?

[grand flower]

Probably help rebuild the world after the war

[buoyant comet]

You threw away your whole arguement with this sentence. Koby isn't the only righteous marine, we have dozens of those, and we have more influential and powerful people on the marines who are. Your main point was that Kobys role would be important to reform the new WG, and guide it after the current one is taken down. This is just a theory and if you'd base this theory on Kobys past actions you'd find it implausible when you compare him to other characters such as Smoker and Fujitora who have went against higher ups, and have taken action to try and improve the marines corrupt nature.

[grand flower]

That's where story structure comes in

[cosmic hamlet]

I don't expect it to be all positive, there will be a gray ending

[grand flower]

Koby introduces that entire concept to the story

Also

I never said Koby is the guide

I never said Koby is the REPRESENTATIVE

As in, the mascot

He's the face

He is the character that embodies the entire storyline

[cosmic hamlet]

Shuron, you are expecting alot from 18 year old kid. Its like giving carrot zou

[grand flower]

Characters like Fujitora and Smoker act as older characters who know better

[buoyant comet]

Smoker introduced it and Fujitora actually made action to reform the marines

[grand flower]

No he didn't

It was introduced with Koby because Koby's drive to be a Marine was to be a good person

Koby has continued to embody that role

[soft tangle]

Facts, we defending all CDs 💪 LUFFFY IS THE GREATEST THREAT

[grand flower]

That's why he's the marine that speaks out in Marineford

[prisma yacht]

its the same kid who stood up to akainu knowing we will die if he does so

[grand flower]

It wasn't JUST kOBY

JUST Koby*

Smoker and Tashigi were thinking about it too

[cosmic hamlet]

Yes, but he is still naive to run an organization

[grand flower]

But KOBY is the one who actually said something because he's the face of it

[buoyant comet]

He's literally not the face of the new marine organization is smoker who realized the corrupt nature of the marines first and went against his higher ups to help Luffy.

[grand flower]

Thats why Koby gets the "FUTURE OF THE MARINES" thing from Garp

[prisma yacht]

he doesn't have to run anything

him being there

is enough

being the face as shuron said

[grand flower]

Smoker is just fleshing out a storyline that starts with Koby

If Smoker was the face of it, he would have been the one to call out the lack of justice in marineford

[cosmic hamlet]

I don't understand, are you saying koby will be face of navy or face of WG?

[buoyant comet]

Koby has done nothing to be a part of that story

[soft tangle]

Facts, Koby is pro slavery

[buoyant comet]

That was against a radical marine not the world government.

[grand flower]

Koby being introduced as someone who wants to be a Marine so he can help people starts that storyline by showing that Marines SHOULD be people driven by altruism

The main conflict is that the Celestial Dragons bastardize the Navy's altruistic ambitions for their means

That's why it's important that Koby is in SWORD

[cosmic hamlet]

@grand flower

[grand flower]

SWORD is inherently a rebellion against the CDs because marines in sword are choosing not to compromise that alturism

[grand flower]

Koby is the face of the storyline

That storyline being, the WG needs to be reformed

Koby is able to represent that storyline by embodying the notion that Marines should be people driven by alturism

The conflict is that the WG attempts to stifle that

Koby demonstrates fighting against that by being in sword

he demonstrated fighting against that by calling out the navy for their lack of justice in marineford

It's not just that Koby says something

He specifically says "this isn't justice anymore"

And that right there is the entire conflict of that plot line

People sign up for the navy pursuing justice

[buoyant comet]

It's not it's literally just made for radical marines to take action against yonkos and pirates and not face consequences for it because the marines/WG won be liable for them.

It's literally the marines and WG who created them.

[grand flower]

The CDs cause what they do to stop being justie

[cosmic hamlet]

What role will fujitora play then?

[grand flower]

That's just one thing they can do

SWORD exists for Marines who want to be able to say "I'm going to do XYZ and you can't tell me no"

[buoyant comet]

No that's the main thing why they were created for kuzan literally said it

[grand flower]

It's for Marines who say "I want to protect these people" when the higher ups say "no don't do that"

[grand flower]

No it's not

[buoyant comet]

XYZ aka fight yonkos

[grand flower]

He says for example, they can fight Emperors

[grand flower]

But that's not all they can do

SWORD can undertake any mission they want to

[prisma yacht]

embodying garp's will

[grand flower]

members of sword can decide to go to islands the navy aren't allowed to go to

[grand flower]

exactly

i said before that's another reason Koby is the deuteragonist

[soft tangle]

Pro slavery 💪

[buoyant comet]

They can't go against other marines they don't have higher authorities to claim themselves as righteous they're just a more radical faction of the marines that is permitted leeway with who their opponents sre

[prisma yacht]

kuzan vs garp - saving koby is so well done in this case

[soft tangle]

Boa, you are becoming a slave again! ☝️

[grand flower]

They can disobey orders

[buoyant comet]

Garps justice is inherently flawed that's not a good look for KOBY

[prisma yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[grand flower]

It's not. Garp's justice is "I'm going to act when I'm needed to act, and you can't tell me not to"

Garp's justice is about doing what's right

That's the entire point of him attacking Imu

[buoyant comet]

They can't there's no evidence of them being above the law for anything except fighting whichever pirates they want

[grand flower]

The rules say he isn't allowed to attack an Elder

[soft tangle]

Facts, we must stop Luffy ☝️

[grand flower]

So when an Elder is hurting innocent people, it's time to ignore that rule

[prisma yacht]

you cld say his character is contradictory

[grand flower]

That's Garp's justice

[buoyant comet]

Doing what's right like allowing your grandson to get killed over a political move against a pacifist yonko, or allow mothers to get harassed and killed just so that the marines can wipe out a pirates bloodline. That's Garps justice btw

[buoyant comet]

I could say that yes

[grand flower]

Garp couldn't do anything to stop either of those things

[prisma yacht]

also

[grand flower]

It also doesn't change what Garp's ideology is

All that means is that Garp ended up in situations where he couldn't act on his ideology

[prisma yacht]

he believes in reforming within the organisation

[buoyant comet]

The next line states that they'd get cut loose the second they do that

[grand flower]

His ideology of "Do what you can to do what's right even when the rules say you can't" is still good

[grand flower]

that's not what he says at all

He doesn't say "they will once you disobey orders"

[buoyant comet]

Garp could have freed ace the same way he freed dragon

[grand flower]

he says the freedom to disobey orders comes with the caveat that they CAN cut you loose

[prisma yacht]

ace and dragon were in very different positions

[grand flower]

What that means is, you're doing unauthorized missions, cool, but understand that if you get yourself into some shit, we're not backing you up

It also means that if they go too far, the Navy will disavow them

It's basically gambling with your life and career

It's an agreement where the Navy is going "aight bruh just make sure you pick your battles real carefully tho"

[buoyant comet]

So they can't go against the world government now can they

[grand flower]

In many ways they can

Again, it's inherently rebellious

It's true that it's not enough to be revolutionary

But what you're ignoring there is that this is a plotline with several moving parts

Pirates through Luffy and the Revos are very much a part of this storyline

[buoyant comet]

The second they do they're cut loose that system wasnt encouraged for them to rebel against the WG. Theres 0 indications of that

[grand flower]

That's why I said before, which is a point none of you really addressed, Koby is the one out of all of those who we know will continue to represent the WG through the Navy

Luffy obviously won't

[prisma yacht]

there's no point arguing over this , cause we will have a scenario in the near future where we will be seeing them going against the wg

[grand flower]

We can't say Dragon will for sure

Sabo most likely won't

[buoyant comet]

Fujitora and Smoker will not Koby

[prisma yacht]

like it's bound to happen

[grand flower]

Koby will be an Admiral free from CD corruption

[grand flower]

Nigga what lmao

You think Koby isn't gonna be a Marine EOS?

[buoyant comet]

No I'm not saying that what

[grand flower]

Listen

Koby is going to be an Admiral by the time the final page is there

[buoyant comet]

I'm saying the representatives of the reformed marines will be Fuji and smoker

[soft tangle]

Koby is the next great WG dog bro ✌️

[grand flower]

They will be represenatatives, yes

Koby will be the biggest one, however

[buoyant comet]

I'm not denying that but he's not gonna be the fleet admiral is he, the one who actually guides the marines

[grand flower]

Koby doesn't need to be the guide

His role is to be guided

That's not what being the face of the storyline entails

[buoyant comet]

Then koby isn't a deuteragonist 😭😭😭

[grand flower]

This is probably the last I'll say since we're going in circles and your arguments are getting less substantial/just declarative

But Koby introduced to us the concept that Marines should be people driven by doing good, and this was introduced to us as Luffy's very first adventure. Luffy's very first achievement on the sea was kicking off Koby on this path. Like Teach as the main antagonist, we've continued to follow Koby's growth through the series alongside Luffy's, and Koby has continued to be the mouthpiece for the concept that Marines need to be good people by calling out the lack of justice at Marineford, and again in Egghead

Koby becoming an Admiral in a Navy that's free from CD corruption will mean more than whoever else is an Admiral at this time, including Smoker or Fujitora, because Koby is directly supposed to be Garp's successor, and Garp refused the promotion to Admiral specifically because of that central conflict of the "good marine" storyline. And that conflict is summed up exactly by Koby's words at Marineford: It's no longer justice

[prisma yacht]

I have decided

I'll be drawing garp and koby next

[small ember]

Based on what we saw w Kizaru on Egghead and Aokiji w/ BB I wanna learn more about the admirals. Like I’m sure they’ve all lead interesting lives or had interesting pasts

[spice python]

Same

Even many of the vice-admirals are pretty interesting

[safe cove]

WOBY

[grand flower]

Love you

[grand flower]

I really wanna see what their thought process is on the state of the WG

Why do they put up with the CDs

We can make some strong educated guesses but I can’t wait to see how it turns out in the end

[high wolf]

COOK

[prisma yacht]

egghead was really something from the marines perspective

we had kuzans reveal of joining bbp , a guy who had his justice and will collapse while following garp's footsteps

we had koby inheriting garp's will

[ornate tartan]

draw ryuma and katakuri plz

[prisma yacht]

we had garp finally fleshing out the lengths he wld go for the justice he believes in

[distant vine]

https://x.com/i/status/2033152704185287136

Manga Mogura RE (Anime & Manga News) (@MangaMoguraRE)

"One Piece" Luffy Voice Actress Mayumi Tanaka in a new (humorous) speech:

'I don't think I'll be able to live as long as Mako-san (Masako Nozawa) but I'll do my best for another 10 years or so'

The voice actress received the "Best Supporting Voice Actress" Award at the 20th

X · Mar 15, 2026, 12:05 PM

[prisma yacht]

we had kizaru a guy who sticks around ignoring morality, finally has to face it making a sacrifice

and then the wg dogs

doberman

[prisma yacht]

maybe when I reread wci i will

not sure about ryuma

i'll do shanks and shamrock soon , atleast ill try to

[grand flower]

Yeah bro I’m really excited to see where those seeds grow

The marines are a really compelling roster of characters

[prisma yacht]

wishes for her well being

[small ember]

Yeah for sure. Like we know Akainu and Fuji don’t like them, Aokiji probably. Kizaru prob doesn’t care and GB has posters of them

[small ember]

Aaaand you see one of your strongest allies having an emotional breakdown in the midst of it all

[prisma yacht]

next time we see kizaru he will have a strong conviction

[small ember]

For sure

Watch him pull an Aokiji and join Cross Guild💀

[prisma yacht]

just realised a nice parallel between garp and kizaru

[small ember]

Both of them are in the marines

[storm anvil]

he will go where the bag at

[small ember]

Kizaru resetting the admiral market in free agency

[grand flower]

I really like the theory that the abruptness of Aramaki saying all that stuff to the samurai was a front to warn them

It'd be a navy character getting another layer again

[small ember]

Very interesting. Like being so aggressive and up front to force them to take it seriously and not be wiped out

I think Greenbull might remain a scumbag though

[grand flower]

Yeah I have stock in the theory that the navy, or at least hte admirals, are connected to Wano somehow

[prisma yacht]

kizaru deciding to ignore morality led him to his breakdown,
you can't play being oblivion to the obvious
on the other hand garp deciding to stay and reform even after acknowledging everything

[grand flower]

When Arsal told me about his idea that Aramaki was basically doing a performance, it made sense to me with him restoring the vegetation

[small ember]

Yeah. Especially Akainu, Fuji, Aramaki

[cosmic hamlet]

The what

[grand flower]

Yeah it's the strongest with them

[grand flower]

which part?

[small ember]

I’m pining for any glimpse of Akainu’s past lol

[proud pivot]

Posture check

[cosmic hamlet]

Doing the performance

[grand flower]

thaks arisu

[small ember]

Doesn’t need to be misery porn but there’s no way he had an easy life

[prisma yacht]

this wld fit in if akainu goes after them

[grand flower]

oh, if you go back to that scene, you'll see that when the samurai approach Aramaki he immediately just kinda goes off

[prisma yacht]

thanks arisu

[grand flower]

They don't say anything to him that actually leads into what he starts saying

[cosmic hamlet]

It would be hard to believe considering how he acted during the whole reverie incident too

[grand flower]

That, plus the way his personality in wano seems very different from the reverie and the way he restored Wano's vegetation, made for this idea that he was warning the samurai about how the outside world works

they've been isolated and "protected" by Kaido for so long, they needed to be shown how the outside world would respond to them

I think the Navy originated from Wano, so they want to keep the WG's corruption away from it

[cosmic hamlet]

🙄

[grand flower]

The higher ups like admirals and such

[cosmic hamlet]

You do realise he already did something nasty in the past according to sbs

[grand flower]

mmhmm

[prisma yacht]

harald was once a dick

look how he turned out to be

[cosmic hamlet]

He is actually good before, he turned into suck up for no reason

[grand flower]

Yeah people grow

[prisma yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/take-that-cat-jump-gif-15656359

[grand flower]

Not only that, but they exist in multitudes. Aramaki could be a scumbag in some ways, sure, and still have been looking out for Wano for whatever reason

[cosmic hamlet]

Nice speculation but its hard for me to believe aramaki put a performance

[grand flower]

I don't think it's coincidence how much Wano and the Navy have in common

[cosmic hamlet]

Why would he look out for wano?

[prisma yacht]

maybe cause akainu plans to get the ancient weapon 👹

[grand flower]

I think Aramami, Sakazuki, Issho and Kuzan are children of people who left Wano 55 years ago

[prisma yacht]

you mean yano

ahm ahm

[grand flower]

Furthermore, the Navy may have originated from Wano

[cosmic hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/luoxiaohei-gif-25237866

[grand flower]

I have a theory that Venusjuro is the godhead of finance because he took the gold from wano

wano used to be known as the land of gold after all

[cosmic hamlet]

That would be like too much coincidence 👀

[grand flower]

What do you mean?

[cosmic hamlet]

Wano has shut down after void century. Navy was established by WG most likely

[cosmic hamlet]

All of them being originated from wano. Admirals are picked up based on merit

[grand flower]

idk what you mean exactly

But I think the Navy was founded by the WG with people from Wano

[final trench]

They from yano

[grand flower]

I don't know exactly how the relationship played out and who did what but I think that's the rough of it, alongside Venus using the gold from wano to fund the WG/Navy

[final trench]

[cosmic hamlet]

You didn't know that wano was closed after void century?

[grand flower]

I think Onigashima used to be Yano

[final trench]

Holup

[cosmic hamlet]

Whose dialogue is this?

[grand flower]

Marco

[final trench]

Lemme get
Kuzan
Akainu
Sentomaru
Shiryu

All from yano

[wraith mantle]

CHAPTER WEEK TOMORROW

[final trench]

Facts bro we finally free

Im so glad

[cosmic hamlet]

You talking like we getting chapter tommorrow 😐

[prisma yacht]

cook shuron cook

[cosmic hamlet]

I remember the speculations back in the day on what was the previous name of onigashima

[cosmic hamlet]

Let me think on whom i should vote, hmm

[prisma yacht]

vivi

[storm anvil]

vote Ida

[cosmic hamlet]

Hmm, good idea. I like vivi

[storm anvil]

no you don't

vote ida

[teal galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/oggy-and-the-cockroaches-jack-joey-finger-crushing-deny-gif-4938557488061467727

oof

[cosmic hamlet]

I prefer vivi over ida

[teal galleon]

[storm anvil]

[cosmic hamlet]

Nvm, it says i already voted

[prisma yacht]

whom did u vote

last

[cosmic hamlet]

Makino

[thin quest]

Robin or bust

[prisma yacht]

bust?

[storm anvil]

i got my goats already my life is complete

[prisma yacht]

Damnnnn

clayo typing a long ass para man

[storm anvil]

❤️‍🩹

[thin quest]

Wanji nice

[cosmic hamlet]

Its towards shuron

We are good

[prisma yacht]

clayo I wld love to ratio you once u finish

[prisma yacht]

its about koby

[cosmic hamlet]

Imagine if a mod made this channel read only

[prisma yacht]

Hell yeah

[cosmic hamlet]

He would lose all that he typed

[prisma yacht]

zurq is online

khikhikhi

[storm anvil]

[ruby cape]

Bro writing the next chapter

[sleek plume]

Cooking up a storm I see

I wonder who it’s for

[storm anvil]

its for shuron i think

thank lord it's not me

[proud pivot]

Imagine he just types "Hello" afterall this time

[sleek plume]

He gets banished

[prisma yacht]

directly to the sports channel

muhehehe

[ruby cape]

Bros back here

Mf needed a break from the channel 😭

[storm anvil]

bros gone again

[buoyant comet]

Alrighty sure. You want substantial argument I'll give you one.

First of all Koby wasn't introduced as the model marine officer. He was flawed and a coward, he allowed himself to be taken advantage of and wouldn't protest Alvida because he was simply afraid. It was only his interaction with Luffy that awespired him to grow up and stand up for himself and his dream. Either way Kobys justice is still fundementally narrow-minded and isn't a good model for the reformation of the new world government. Kobys naiveness and intolerance to pirates makes him unfit to be he face of the new world government. People give him too much credit than he deserves just because he decided not to be a facist.

And also altruism isn't exclusive to Garp nor is it exemplified properly especially since Garp has permitted many injustices to occur in his lifetime and has essentially turned a blind eye to defend his vision of what the marines should be instead of reforming it. Garp refusing a promotion isn't that admirable considering he still served the corrupt world government even if not directly and hasn't actioned in any way whatsoever to change it for the better.

And Kobys words weren't illustrating the world governments unethical policies or anything, he only stood up to protect his fellow marine comrades from the radical conservative marine that is Akainu who led their forces to essential exterminate all the pirates present on Marineford regardless of the blood price. Koby saying this isn't justice is in no way whatsoever true, he's just clashing with Akainus absolute justice which he doesn't recognize. Akainus justice is the same justice koby applies except that's drastically more extreme but the same fundementals of Akainus justice are the same of Kobys and Garps which are intolerance for piracy and illicit actions that are fashioned to be to the benefits to citizen.

[storm anvil]

holy

[wraith mantle]

Warn us first buddy

[sleek plume]

Hold on

This ain’t even bad

Imma read

[cosmic hamlet]

Yeah, he is a very very slow typer

[buoyant comet]

I'll give you my piece why I think Smoker and Fujitora policies are more so righteous and fitting with the new world government.

Unlike Koby, Smoker and Fujitora aren't inconsideratent to act against pirates just because of their status. Koby has gone out of his way to apprehend Boa Hancock (a former slave) who's only maintained a warlord position to protect her citizens from foreign invaders and the WG. Knowing this Koby still tried to apprehend her on Amazon Lily.

Fujitora unlike Koby, has gone against world government orders and allowed the slaves on Mary Geoise to escape when the marines appeared. He battled with his counterpart admiral, and refused to back down even though it goes against marine policy. Koby knowing the prejudice of the world government wanted to make Amazon lily vulnerable by kidnapping their empress who as far as I know hasn't committed any unethical crims against civilians.

Smoker and Fujitora both allowed the Straw Hats to escape from the grasps of the marines, even when they were pressured by the higher brass. Smoker in particular did it thrice. They recognized the straw hats were pirates in name, but that their status didn't define who they were. Especially after they saw the straw hats essentially perform the marines jobs by saving civilians and helping fight evil.

Koby who has spent time with Luffy and saw his nature still vowed to take him down for pursuing the One Piece, instead of focusing on the marines and WG. Fujitora had the power to take down Luffy and he refused to despite him being a criminal, because of Luffys actions, he knew he bore no ill motives and that his adventure wasn't detrimental to civilians and the marines. That's why he focused instead on reforming the WG by removing the Warlord system that allowed for pirates to exploit their positions to harm civilians.

[cosmic hamlet]

You don't even know the context

[safe cove]

clayo was born for #manga-serious

[wraith mantle]

Damn

[prisma yacht]

MUTEEEEE

[sleek plume]

Oh shit he double dipped

[prisma yacht]

DELETE HIS MSGS

[storm anvil]

TWO????

[buoyant comet]

The only reason that I've entertained the idea of Koby being the deuteragonist of One Piece was because you implied that hed be the face of the new world government the one to lead it or reform it. When we've seen him exert a total of 0 effort towards that goal.

The Revolutionary Army are the ones who are directly going to be dismantling the World Government, and they're probably the ones who are going to reform it as well. Using your logic the deuteragonist would be Dragon or Sabo, the ones leading the campaign and onslaught against the world government.

But hypothetically let's say the role falls into the marines to reform the World Government. It still won't be Koby who will represent them. He's naiveness and his flawed justice won't be a good model f

[ruby cape]

TRIPLE

[storm anvil]

BROTHER

[ruby cape]

HATTRICK

[sleek plume]

LOL

[cosmic hamlet]

Oh wait he has parts because of discord limit 😂

[wraith mantle]

This sounds like AI

[prisma yacht]

DELETEEE THEM ZURQ EMBRACE THE EVIL

[sleek plume]

Well at least this is a productive discussion

Some good shit right here

[cosmic hamlet]

How about now?

[prisma yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-journey-to-dark-side-evil-luke-skywalker-emperor-gif-19918388

[storm anvil]

someone copy paste this to #manga-serious

[ruby cape]

Clay himself should it’s his argument

[buoyant comet]

I'm ngl this nigga cannot be serious how are u already typing read what I said first 😭

[prisma yacht]

Shuron do a ratio

[ornate tartan]

oda already told us who the deuteroganist is clayo

and it’s not zoro

[prisma yacht]

[sleek plume]

😭

[cosmic hamlet]

Why does it feel like the 3rd part is also not completed?

[iron oriole]

Yeah its Robin

True

[buoyant comet]

I got tired this is enough I'll hear his response and come back

[storm anvil]

shuron give him a quadriple

[ruby cape]

https://tenor.com/view/fight-delante-johnson-ablaikhan-zhussupov-nbc-olympics-start-the-fight-gif-22849262

[storm anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-film-gold-monkey-d-luffy-douglas-bullet-supreme-king-conquerors-haki-gif-17025193

[cosmic hamlet]

Shuron doesn't type that big, he types multiple small messages fast

[storm anvil]

we are about to see an exception today

[final trench]

Croc stalemated this nigga btw

[grand flower]

1st paragraph: those are the flaws that Koby has to overcome. The fact that he has flaws to overcome means he's a character who's going to experience growth, just like Luffy as the protagonist has his own flaws to overcome and grow past. Koby's ideology is rooted in doing the right thing in any given situation above all else, and that's exactly what the Marines need to be following. It's directly portrayed with things like "the navy can't help unaffiliated countries" and "marineford stopped being about justice" that the central conflict for the marines as characters is that contradiction between becoming a marine to do the right thing, and compromising in practice.

My argument was never that altruism was exclusive to Garp. That wouldn't make sense with me saying that Koby's altruistic nature is representative of a broader storyline for the entire marine faction.

My argument was analyzing story structure. Garp was unable to become an Admiral because they're under the thumb of Celestial Dragons. Koby being Garp's successor, meaning someone who will reach further than Garp did when his character arc is complete, will be represented by Koby being able to become an Admiral within a WG free from CD corruption. I said this direct relationship between Garp and Koby is what will make Koby becoming an Admiral especially meaningful in comparison to anyone else, because they have this dichotomy regarding the Admiral position AND the relationship due to being narrative parallels.

Koby is calling out a lack of justice because they were throwing away lives. Again, Koby's character is rooted in "we should be doing the right thing." The "right thing" there wasn't chasing more bloodshed that would achieve nothing but satiating Marine ego and bloodlust.

[storm anvil]

damn he fast

[cosmic hamlet]

Not yet done

Thats just response to first para

[grand flower]

As Koby pointed out, they achieved the goal of their war. It was unethical to keep going instead of saving the wounded

This is how wars irl work too

You don't get the leaders surrender or defeat and just keep going, you'd be committing war crimes at that point

Smoker, Tashigi, and Koby all noted it wasn't justice because it wasn't for a righteous goal anymore, they were just bloodlusted

Tashigi and Smoker specifically note that achieving their victory caused them to become so riled up, they lost sight of fighting for an actual cause and were fighting just to kill

[grand flower]

i was gonna do it like that but i ended up not

[cosmic hamlet]

Its better to send small small messages than one big message

[grand flower]

yall will be okay

[sleek plume]

That unironically takes more effort, it’s better to just lay down your argument in one sitting and let the other person give a full response

Have it any other way and they’ll just respond to your mini points and suddenly you’re having 3 different conversations at once

[cosmic hamlet]

The more time it takes to exchange the less interesting it will become for others to chime in.

I would love it if others join and give their 2 cents which will be less likely if 2 people are exchanging essays

[mighty quarry]

I had a bath and a full nap

And this koby discussion is still going?!

[sleek plume]

I guess it’s just a personal thing, for me I don’t really care if anyone chimes in or not, it’s between me and the person I’m arguing with and that’s it

[cosmic hamlet]

I disagree, the point of discussing in public channel is for others to give their 2 cents

[storm anvil]

alright fucker here 🪙🪙

[sleek plume]

It isn’t any of our jobs to open the door for other people to chime in, you lay down your argument and it’s up to other people to read it and give their two cents

[cosmic hamlet]

Those are not cents

[storm anvil]

i gave you two gold coins

be greatful smh

[cosmic hamlet]

i would be okay to have one big message to provide your main point but more than 5 big messages is too much for me

[prisma yacht]

it just depends on the flow

[cosmic hamlet]

Omg, what should i do with that much money now 👀

[mighty quarry]

Invest in a bigger screen that can read 5 big messages

[cosmic hamlet]

[grand flower]

sometimes you gotta

[cosmic hamlet]

"sometimes", its always the case for clay

[storm anvil]

this a great time to advertise galaxy Z fold 7

https://tenor.com/view/george-harris-gif-9541509133979181503

[cosmic hamlet]

Samsung mid

[storm anvil]

good one cyg

[cold steppe]

Nokia better

Can be used as a projectile

[cosmic hamlet]

You guys probably never played the snake game in nokia

[storm anvil]

i did

[cosmic hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/nokia-snake-game-gif-12121001

[cold steppe]

Same

[storm anvil]

i remember playing a phinease and ferb game that shi was good

didn't even know what phinease and ferb even was back then

[mighty quarry]

I remember a time when upgrading from 64 MB Ram to 128 MB made me so happy because that meant my pc could actually boot Vice City

[storm anvil]

the Red ball game

holy throwback

[cosmic hamlet]

Bounce

[storm anvil]

diamond rush

🔥

https://tenor.com/view/diamond-rush-game-adventure-game-gif-16868764

[mighty quarry]

There was that game

Dave

[cosmic hamlet]

Didn't play this

[storm anvil]

also the arcade games like mustafa

https://tenor.com/view/mustafa-cadillacs-and-dinosaurs-gif-12371080330723083650

[storm anvil]

@cosmic hamlet did you play this

[cosmic hamlet]

No 😭

[storm anvil]

💔✌️

[cosmic hamlet]

My children was back in 2000-2005 so

[cold steppe]

Oh yeah dangerous dave

[buoyant comet]

Most of the ideologies are rooted in a belief that the character is ultimately performing their actions for the betterment of the world. Self righteousness is dangerous, not everyone who think their deeds are for the greater good should be excused for having a good intention. Koby having obstacles in his path is all well and good, but he's still not the perfect marine officer for the new world government. He still holds intolerance to any pirates and views them in a negative manner knowing that titles like being criminals and such aren't representative of who they are. This isn't something he'd need to grow up from, he should have realized this after his encounter with Luffy on Alvidas ship that people's natures aren't illustrated by their status.

Any yet Koby still helped weaken an unaffiliated isolated WG country by deposing their empress who was a warlord with no criminal record of attacking or harming civilians. Essentially making Amazon Lily vulnerable to the World Government who's known for their slave trade and sex trafficking. I don't really recall the dialogue of Amazon Lily's onslaught but I'm pretty sure Boa pointed it out or Koby blurted this, but he eventually responded by trying to compromise saying he'll only apprehend her.

And again Garp refusing to become a Vice Admiral to not directly serve the Celestial Dragons isn't enough. He simply averted his eyes from the horrors going up top, taking a more moderate position. I'm criticizing your analogy of Koby inheriting Garps will because it's not really impactful enough to reform the world government.

Kobys justice and will must be different from Garps. He shouldn't simply take his road and travel further in it, he should stray from it because it doesn't strive to create real changes. It's just a different form of the same world government with new packaging.

[sleek plume]

That’s fine, my thing is basically you craft your arguments and you don’t have to accommodate for anybody in chat, not even the person you’re arguing with tbh

There’s been multiple occasions where I’ve written paragraphs to people and they backed out and left

Because they didn’t want to read all that, and that’s okay

[cosmic hamlet]

😂

[sleek plume]

Can’t really control what the response is

[cosmic hamlet]

No offence but if it goes beyond 5 essays each for a discussion i would recommend to go to #manga-serious . Its just a perfect place for such conversation as the chat won't move fast in there

[alpine trench]

why should that be the case

[cosmic hamlet]

Its just a recommendation, I'm not forcing 👀

[alpine trench]

yeah i'm not saying you are, either

[grand flower]

tbf other convos can still happen there's nothing stopping anyone from talking as we are

[sleek plume]

It’s a more suitable place for that kind of discussion but it doesn’t really mean that it should be moved over there, if people want to have a massive back and forth in the main manga channels that’s fine, there’s never really been a case where it’s disrupted chat (unless the two people are shit flinging)

[cosmic hamlet]

Each platform has a way of discussion. Its like saying reddit is not good for chatting. This channel is not good for big essays when multiple people are conversing

[sleek plume]

People just say “woah wtf I’m not reading all that” and then chat eventually moves on

[alpine trench]

i have conversed in essays in here multiple times

just focus on the argument at hand

people can choose to get into it or not

its up to them

[sleek plume]

Pretty much yeah

[cosmic hamlet]

Bro, don't take this in negative way 😭. I'm not asking you guys to move. I'm just saying its a better place for such type of discussions

[ashen perch]

Harsh is right (just choked on my food while trying to say this)

[alpine trench]

fuck you

[ashen perch]

[cosmic hamlet]

Thats my point aswell, i just didn't say it in a good way like you did 😐

[alpine trench]

my one piece essay discussion days are over....

[ashen perch]

But yea no carry on, we've had hundreds of long conversations here and we'll continue to have them, there's no issue

manga-serious itself isn't even necessarily about essays or whatever

Its just about the tone

[steel stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/sonfys-gif-2540652325955471116

[prisma yacht]

lol

[steel stirrup]

That boy Clay SPITTIN

BARS

[ashen perch]

#manga-theories is. In #manga-serious, regular conversation is perfectly okay as long as its high effort and not based on silly topics like powerscaling, shipping and whatnot

[alpine trench]

check the manga serious chat rn bro

[sleek plume]

I’d take those long winded discussions any day over the low effort shit posting that typically goes on tbh, I think most would

[storm anvil]

garp and koby are ultimately going to be portrayed as amongst the "good ones" and people will lose their mind

[sleek plume]

Which is wild because it shouldn’t be surprising at all

[cosmic hamlet]

I typed something long to explain my side but i erased it 😐

[storm anvil]

true lol

[buoyant comet]

Someone needs to educate y'all

[cosmic hamlet]

Short messages doesn't mean they are low effort

[buoyant comet]

More specifically you CYGNETO

[storm anvil]

oda is going to obviously justify garp's approach and long term plan and potray him as the good man like he always has

[buoyant comet]

He's morally gray imo

He's more leaned into being a good person but he's not actually a good person like

I know not everyone is pure

[prisma yacht]

cyg's suggestions are being so ass lately

[desert nest]

🥺

[ashen perch]

Garp's going to be interesting to watch, I really believe that his current situation is designed to force a change within him. I don't believe his path will be justified actually, he'll be forced into the path that Luffy would want him to take.

[cosmic hamlet]

They are talking about intangibility in #manga , go there

[desert nest]

Cyg and fron are both kitties

https://tenor.com/view/kittens-oh-look-more-kittys-gif-14325500

[prisma yacht]

you were one of the guys who seeded the discussion

[wraith mantle]

52 minutes and top 5 per region will be updated

[cosmic hamlet]

I started it

[wraith mantle]

Rocks nation 🙏

[desert nest]

🙏🙏🙏

[prisma yacht]

meow :3

[urban lodge]

Your downfall is near

[cosmic hamlet]

Do you think wg/navy will listen to bb to release garp?

[prisma yacht]

what did I do 😔

[wraith mantle]

I trust in Africa and the Middke East

Europe will probably fail

[desert nest]

You meow too Cyg

[cosmic hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/legend-of-hei-hei-hei-cat-black-cat-beach-black-cat-animation-gif-11883306496430789675

[desert nest]

Close enough

[desert nest]

They know peak

[ashen perch]

nope, no way

My idea is that the WG will simply abandon Garp

[prisma yacht]

i believe garp isn't dying

like at all

[cosmic hamlet]

Will bb even ask? Does he really think he has leavage with garp?

[ashen perch]

and it will be a smaller group of Marines that instead set out to save him on their own, who will be defying the WG's decision to do so

he does think so yeah

[cosmic hamlet]

But garp is the face of marines still

[prisma yacht]

he will be watching the downfall of wg and will continue to live on 🤍

[ashen perch]

Nusjuro quite literally said that they dont care about that to Akainu back in Dressrosa

[cosmic hamlet]

Wait what? So its just circling?

[distant vine]

Theyre clearly not smart enough to do optics

[ashen perch]

well not actually, because I dont think the Marines would manage to do it alone

I believe the SHs will be involved

[distant vine]

Yeah Luffy and Koby will fight together to save Garp

[cold steppe]

It has to be luffy please

[cosmic hamlet]

Luffy saving garp after that marineford interaction

Peak

[ashen perch]

yeah

[cosmic hamlet]

Maybe bb will sell garp to crossguild and take 5B

[ashen perch]

I think the idea is to put Garp in that position that he saw Ace in during Marineford

[cosmic hamlet]

Execution 👀

[ashen perch]

whereas Garp did nothing to save Ace, Luffy will save Garp

[cosmic hamlet]

A public execution will be different, WG wouldn't want that

[ashen perch]

The Marines wont, Akainu wont, but the WG? I doubt it still

[wanton sundial]

maybe straw hats and sword team up?

[cold steppe]

The mirroring between garp not helping ace because he's a pirate. And Luffy saves him even tho he's a marine would be peak

[ashen perch]

like they made it pretty clear here already, the honor of the Marines is irrelevant

[prisma yacht]

red haired and swords

👹

[ashen perch]

yeah that would make sense

[cosmic hamlet]

So luffy vs bb will happen to save garp instead of laughtale? 😂

[cold steppe]

Yes

[prisma yacht]

eventually leading to the most awaited bb vs shanks

[wanton sundial]

oh fuck you're right HAHAH

but i can see bb killing garp successfully to mirror akainu

[cosmic hamlet]

In front of luffy?

[wanton sundial]

and then being like bitch fuck you im going now MUAHAHA and leaving

[cosmic hamlet]

And 2 year time skip again

[wanton sundial]

exaactly exactly

and more timeskips because that's what this story needs

[storm anvil]

i think it's going to be justified in the sense that oda is going down the route of that there is more than one valid approaches to this matter,
instead of having a single all correct path and declaring anyone who doesn't follow this path to be in the wrong.

each of the path have their own ups and downs and flaws overall but it's the individual's own moral axis that matters ultimately

[ashen perch]

he kind of is already

but yeah, public execution soon

[cosmic hamlet]

I wanna see if sengoku will care

[storm anvil]

bb killing shanks will be my one piece day

[ashen perch]

this was his strategy with Koby, he wanted to take the question to the world somehow

I imagine the strategy has not changed at all

[pulsar path]

He would totally care but idk if the wg will

[cosmic hamlet]

I wonder if garp execution announcement will put doubts on marines about WG

[cosmic hamlet]

Sengoku and tsuru will probably try

[storm anvil]

he will be stress eating crackers

[pulsar path]

Wait what's the context ?

[ashen perch]

at best, I expect Garp's approach to be justified in the sense that yea, that is still a somewhat fair approach for someone in his position. When he does ultimately rebel though, I think his earlier approach will definitely be rejected.

[ashen perch]

it would yea

[cosmic hamlet]

Garp execution by bb

[ashen perch]

also another thing

[pulsar path]

Wait but why would bb execute garp

[hot cairn]

chapter week

[ashen perch]

maybe this is where Devon's Saturn is meant to play a role too, I have been thinking about it

[cold steppe]

Probably for a statement

Like they televised ace

[pulsar path]

Someone said they copied Saturn so they could control the the seephom

[cosmic hamlet]

He will give ultimatum to WG maybe, if they don't meet his demands he will publicly execute garp. That will taint the reputation of marines by a lot

[pulsar path]

That's does nothing for bb

Idk

[cold steppe]

Idk it can probably destabilize the marines

[pulsar path]

I think he would just keep his ass trapped

They already don't have garp

[cold steppe]

Since garp is a hero to them

[pulsar path]

And sword is moving on

[ashen perch]

Maybe he has Devon's Saturn make an announcement that causes a rift among the marines and the WG. Basically, even if the WG doesn't abandon Garp, he just has Saturn say it in a live announcement to the world.

I feel like the Seraphim thing shouldnt work

[cosmic hamlet]

I think bb initial plan was to get vegapunk or his copy, they got lucky with saturn. I wonder whats their plan with vegapunk and how saturn face will help more

[ashen perch]

Because it cannot be limited to appearance

[pulsar path]

Bee voice

That's all that matters

If it sounds like Saturn

[ashen perch]

perhaps

[cosmic hamlet]

Didn't some marines witnessed saturn death?

[pulsar path]

Cus also the last time we seen BB or you know last few time she was fighting a serphim.

[ashen perch]

only some

[cosmic hamlet]

I still think its to take control of seraphims, but bb could have changed plans

[pulsar path]

Maybe that was three bb storys ago

[distant vine]

Idk how strict the rules are but if BB could make Garp's release a Davy Back Fight reward for Luffy...

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-writing-fire-his-writing-is-fire-is-this-fire-hold-up-gif-15400153686296022809

[pulsar path]

I don't think they can reprogram the serphim to not listen to Saturn tho is my guess idk tho idk how much that can do like that. If they could why would Vega just rewright is so Vegas were number 1

[cosmic hamlet]

😂

[ashen perch]

I assume you think they didnt know he was coming

but Devon's dialogue has a bit of room for interpretation

[cosmic hamlet]

When they set sail to go to egghead yeah

[pulsar path]

Unless they tapped the world government t

But even so idk how fast they can react

[ashen perch]

I think she says "I have never heard of an Elder coming down, but its helped us quite a bit. Mission Complete''.

No part of this indicates that they are only now finding out, imo

[cosmic hamlet]

Do you remember the chapter number?

[ashen perch]

Mission Complete would indicate that getting his copy was part of the mission

1s

1107

[pulsar path]

I love the world panel 😍

[cosmic hamlet]

👀

[ashen perch]

yea, I dont think this has to mean that they were just finding it out here

[cosmic hamlet]

It does leave open for interpretation

[ashen perch]

yeah, it could just mean "well its never happened before''

but they could still know about it happening now

[small ember]

“The world.”

[ashen perch]

and again, mission complete? thats a pretty strong indicator that this was the plan

one thing though, BB didnt expect Saturn to die I am sure

so that could be a problem for him

[cosmic hamlet]

Yeah

[cosmic hamlet]

Especially not in front of marines

If he died silently with only wg knowing that would benefit him

[ashen perch]

yeah

well, maybe those some marines are just told to shut up

or just, killed

there would be riots for Doll but still

[cosmic hamlet]

Supersonic van augur, cresent moon hunter katarina devon

What a glazer lmao

[cosmic hamlet]

😭

I think they are vice admirals no?

[ashen perch]

well hiding that he died is probably more important than a few soldiers

[cold steppe]

I don't think Imu cares

[cosmic hamlet]

I'm sure what caribou is going to say about pluton and poseidon. I wonder what bb will do with it

[cold steppe]

For the vice admirals I mean

[ashen perch]

everything

[ashen perch]

oh yea definitely, he wont

[cosmic hamlet]

Yeah, if imu cares, that wouldn't have happened in front of them

[cosmic hamlet]

Nah, imu doesn't care if others know aswell

He/she is becoming much and much open about things

[pulsar path]

Random question have we seen any of the Marines who were in the room with Saturn when he combusted into flames

[cosmic hamlet]

Imu now has access to mother flame to use uranus, i wonder if another island will go off 👀

[pulsar path]

There has to be something off with mother flame tho cus like why isnt Imu just blowing shit up unless it takes that much mother flame. Or are we going to see them come to Elbaf after they lose the fight and try and blow it upm

[cosmic hamlet]

Wdym? Like have we seen again in manga after that?

[last halo]

i just woke up and I read caribou as karoo and i was like "what in tarnation are you guys talking about"

[pulsar path]

Could it take all of elbaf

[pulsar path]

Yea

[cosmic hamlet]

We entered elbaf after that

We have not gone out of elbaf so far

[ashen perch]

it was a big change in the OPLA, Karoo apparently knows all about Poseidon and Pluton now

[pulsar path]

I wonder how they night handle that it's kinda big deal seeing a elder crumble lol

[last halo]

Oda planned for the reveal to happen in the manga shortly before season 2, now its spoiled!

[cosmic hamlet]

Imu cannot simply use it recklessly. Remember the bridge is not complete to use if islands are flooded because of using uranus too much

I forgot the name of the other bridge

Tequila wolf and?

[cosmic hamlet]

We don't know the aftermath

I think imu has bigger things to worry about at this point. With food shortage

[pulsar path]

I don't think it's rising that much where it would t be a smart idea to eliminate all giants or kumbaka island for example

[last halo]

They said its incomplete

it seems like VP made a Temu version

[cosmic hamlet]

Imu wanted giants on their side, why would imu kill them

[pulsar path]

Even so with the small amount stolen they were able to completely destroy illusia or what ever the damn island name is

[last halo]

golden gate?

[pulsar path]

You didn't read what I said. I stated that after they fail at elbaf in guessing if they have access to the weapon they are going to blow elbaf out of the water r

[cosmic hamlet]

Yes, the Mother Flame created by Dr. Vegapunk is considered incomplete, even though it possesses immense power. It is an artificial "undying flame" intended to provide free, unlimited energy to the world, but it was stolen and used prematurely to fuel a catastrophic weapon for Imu, rather than for its original purpose.

Hmm 🤔

[cosmic hamlet]

No? The bridge to travel across. Similar to tequila wolf

[pulsar path]

Cus why wouldn't they if giants were supposed to decide the outcome of the war

[cosmic hamlet]

Its not complete apparently like mohdoo said

[pulsar path]

Right but they already used it so

It's still functional

[cosmic hamlet]

They used it prematurely for lulusia

[pulsar path]

Yeah but it's not like it didn't do the job

[last halo]

yeah, hard to say. It could be that it was exhausted from using it. Maybe something along the lines of how fusion power needs to be able to achieve self-sustaining. Maybe its not entirely self-sustaining as-is. Maybe using it too early depletes it. It won't surprise me if it turns out the mother flame is dead now or something

[pulsar path]

I would guess even if it was on its way out they still have a few shots left but personally I think there just weighing where to hit next or like ya said it's recharging but I think we will see it used after elbaf again

[cosmic hamlet]

Tequila Wolf is one of four monumental mega-structures that have been under construction using slave labor over the course of 700 years. The others include Vodka Wolf (ウォッカウルフ, Wokka Urufu?), Rum Wolf (ラムウルフ, Ramu Urufu?), and Bourbon Wolf (バーボンウルフ, Bābon Urufu?).

Oh wait there are 4 bridges imu is trying to construct?

[pulsar path]

Don't know if it will be elbaf

[cosmic hamlet]

I thought only 2

[pulsar path]

They have four

For each blue

[cosmic hamlet]

Was they anywhere near complete?

[pulsar path]

All the liquor supposed to coincide at what part of the world the bridges are at or maybe that was a throw away statement

[pulsar path]

The way they made it sound is no they always were building them for 200 years

It felt more like busy work to me but hard to tell right now

I think it was 200 idk but it was like at least 100 years

[steel stirrup]

VOTE FOR ROCKS

[dense rapids]

Buggy was going mid dif with divine departure mastered shanks

[steel stirrup]

LETS GET HIM INTO ANOTHER TOP 5 SO I CAN SEE EVERYONE IN THIS CHAT CRY

[cosmic hamlet]

200 years left to complete?

[pulsar path]

Done

[pulsar path]

No they just been building them for that long if I remember right but they never seem to get finished

[cosmic hamlet]

By the time of the Egghead Incident, construction had restarted, once again relying on the use of slave labor.

In a meeting of the Revolutionary Army, Emporio Ivankov drew a significant connection between the ongoing construction of Tequila Wolf and other elevated mega-structures around the world and Vegapunk's alarming news regarding the rising sea levels.

They already started it again even after revos rescuing them 😭

[obtuse perch]

what chat doin

[last halo]

buggy technically has the highest durability ceiling in the verse, so its mostly just a matter of time

[pulsar path]

Ehh idk usopp is up there

[desert nest]

Im told contrarians hang here is it true

[pulsar path]

They might be tied

[cosmic hamlet]

Oh that, they have been building for 700 years, not 200

[urban lodge]

Rocks fans are so oppressed

[desert nest]

🥺

[dense rapids]

When Oda reveals he’s always had haki

[iron oriole]

God King Manmayer D Buggy will sit on the Empty Throne

[pulsar path]

That's a really long time it always felt like it was never going to finish but I could be wrong

[dense rapids]

Luffy and Buggy will share a cup of sake at the end of the story

[obtuse perch]

i mean, you ever seen how long it takes a 1 mile stretch of highway to get made?

[dense rapids]

There next meeting will be during the final 2 arcs of OP

[pulsar path]

Yeah usually my printer does it as soon as I collect all my resources ( death stranding joke )

[hot cairn]

how did they know Saturn was going to be in egghead tho

[dense rapids]

Beginning of OP - East Blue Saga

Middle of OP - Marineford Saga

End of OP - Final War Saga

[iron oriole]

the bridges around the world honestly just sounds like the WG fucking with the people

[pulsar path]

That's where maybe the idea they knew that Vega has power over the serphim?

[ashen perch]

well Shuron has the idea that York is working with the BBP, that could maybe be it.

[last halo]

yes but ability to split and remain in the air while split is like being a logia without haki vulnerability. I think even Katakuri's mochi can't entirely separate persistently like Buggy can

[iron oriole]

"oh yeah we'll build bridges for you, using slaves... but then we're totally not gonna flood the world anyway"

[pulsar path]

Remebers it's only within a room like area tho

Unless awakening break that !

Buggy and law are like opposite fruits lol

Or related

[cosmic hamlet]

Bb has a spy in marines

[cosmic hamlet]

The purpose of the bridge is a fail safe if islands get flooded

[pulsar path]

So you think 700 years? I always took it as pointless slave labor but l wonder why they never used a devil fruit of some kind to finish it faster if it is to be used for table

Travel

[iron oriole]

everything is being flooded

there is no purpose to them eventually

[pulsar path]

Or tapped den den mushi

[cosmic hamlet]

The bridge and mariejois is high enough to not get flooded

[pulsar path]

Why would they have. To travel using the bridges anyways tho

[brittle basin]

voting time

[cosmic hamlet]

I doubt they will discuss stuff related to elder in a way that can be tapped

[pulsar path]

They are out at sea

They can't block that

Saturn traveled long enough for BB to pick up on it an make arrangement

[cosmic hamlet]

They don't need to discuss once they entered the ship

[pulsar path]

They have to contact other ships

It's a fleet

[iron oriole]

not really that high

[obtuse perch]

they're constructiong 4 mega structures that go fully around the world, and are raised a few dozen feet above the ocean's surface. So yeah, that's a LOT of rebar and concrete to lay

[pulsar path]

They aren't hiding Saturn is on the ships ether

[iron oriole]

Marijoa obviously is safe, but the bridges could definitely get submerged eventually

[pulsar path]

Still seems more like pointless slave labor

[cosmic hamlet]

This is not tequila wolf, confirmed by oda. But I don't know if this is one of other 3 bridges

[iron oriole]

okay fine

still not that tall

[obtuse perch]

all slave labor is pointless, but at this point its pretty easy to draw the conclusion that this is in preparation for further flooding so the nobles can have safe passage without ever going into the surface world

[iron oriole]

that one is Tequila Wolf

[cosmic hamlet]

There is no reference for scaling 😂

[pulsar path]

Yeah idk still

[iron oriole]

its clearly not massive like you're trying to make out it is

[pulsar path]

Cus it's like where are they going if the whole world is flooded

[iron oriole]

its massive in length, not height

[cosmic hamlet]

Maybe

[pulsar path]

Why wouldn't they just use ships like they been using

And wait what happens the level raises 100 meters per use of weapon right?

[obtuse perch]

the Wolfs are going to connect the Red Line back to itself. It allows them to have their entire civilization above the ocean potentially instead of sequestered into Mary Geoise

[pulsar path]

Tho 100 is alot isn't it like 1000 meters to reach where the bridge is?

[cosmic hamlet]

What other modes are available? Other than train

[iron oriole]

nah

[pulsar path]

Yeah idk cus where are they going around in circles

[iron oriole]

Lulusia raised the sea level by like 1m iirc

[pulsar path]

Ahh so in total its been raised 100 meters

[iron oriole]

200

[obtuse perch]

its only a few meters per use. so it was used a lot during the war

[pulsar path]

Over the 1000 years

[cosmic hamlet]

I don't remember the number mentioned by vegapunk

[iron oriole]

it was 200m roughly

[pulsar path]

They got a lot of uses left than if they worried about flooding in there time

[cosmic hamlet]

They can afford 50 more meters maybe

[obtuse perch]

which is why they've taken 700 years to do this and aren't rushing

[pulsar path]

Yeah I still don't see the pojntin the bridges

[iron oriole]

they've had no way to further the flood until recently anyway

[cosmic hamlet]

How can they even rush, its not that simple to build a bridge

[pulsar path]

They don't leave and go places other than holy land unless they collecting shit

[obtuse perch]

CDs don't like going to the surface world. Even if you throw out the flooding, this lets them never have to go down again.

[cosmic hamlet]

Why are there no devil fruits to help building a bridge faster?

[wraith mantle]

Rocks still top 5 in 3 regions

God bless

[obtuse perch]

true no mother flame

[pulsar path]

There won't be a surface world tho it will just be holy land maybe some mt tops and ocean

Like tbh it's almost like they giving people a way to get to holy land from the top of mt or some shit

[cosmic hamlet]

Will the water level reduce by eos? Or its just something they have to accept?

[pulsar path]

It was still slowly raisng tho right?

[wraith mantle]

I don’t the standings changed at all tbh

[urban lodge]

It's exactly the same

[iron oriole]

i think barely?