manga-theories

[barren yacht]

It looks a bit like how mihawk cuts is that what you mean ?

[near beacon]

by the way Kozuki Sukiyaki and Hitetsu voice actors are the same, not sure if its a mere coincidence

[lime sparrow]

I saw a comment on the subreddit saying that someone will die in chapter 1042. Idk if it would be rocks d. xebec (since most of you predict it would be kaido's backstory in the next chapter) or orochi...

[edgy viper]

A) Where does your confidence in Sukiyaki coming to aid Oden stem from, though? From Sukiyaki's perspective, Oden never lived up to his expectations. And adhering to Wano culture, Sukiyaki probably blames nobody but himself for it. The only reason why Sukiyaki would come out of hiding is because they're father and son. But that bond cannot be that strong, considering Oden was already disowned once. I find it compelling to believe that Sukiyaki was fooled the same way all other Wanoese were, only realizing Oden's burden during the Legendary Hour

B) I didn't clarify enough, sorry. What I mean is that if Sukiyaki, at any point between Oden leaving and Orochi taking over, decided to go "Sunnachi" (meaning "surrender your name and be as a child"), obscure his real persona and prepare for the JoyBoy prophecy, that would be pretty much irreversible. Bc if they fail, all hope for the prophecy is lost

For Edit 2: Yasuie suspected Orochi of stealing, true. However it seems he never acted upon it because he didn't have evidence. I think Yasuie becoming the saint of Ebisu is his way of atoning for exactly this mistake.

Also, consider the following: No Daimyo waged war against Kaido on their own. They were dragging their feet until Kaido put up an ultimatum, serve under me or be obliterated. Only then they decided to rebel. That's some peak complacency, which is very fitting for an isolationist country

[lunar topaz]

[abstract pond]

A) Where does your confidence in Sukiyaki coming to aid Oden stem from, though? Saving Wano from the ruin Orochi was doing.
And Sukiyaki was impressed by Oden becoming more mature and responsible and named him damyo of Kuri.

B) I'm doubting Sukiyaki knew about the prophecy Oden learnt in Laught Tale.

And for the last part. Orochi only became shogun because Sukiyaki died. Imagine Suikiyaki reappearing and with Oden and saying that Orochi seized power illegitimately. No samurai in Wano would stay at home without fighting if that happened.

[deft dagger]

They proly took breaks

[primal cargo]

About B) he obviously did not know what was at LT. That doesn't mean he knew nothing at all. There is a Poneglyph in the basement of his castle and he knows how to read it. There is every chance that stone contains information related to the role of Wano and the Kozuki like, specifically, the fact that the bloodline must remain alive or the fact that Wano must remain closed/be opened at a certain time.

[deft dagger]

Also its still vague akainu who is ruthless let a powerful guy lik aokiji alive there should be more to that fight

[pure raven]

@versed latch multi soul theory?

[versed latch]

ooo that's the one i heard

[pure raven]

idk the real name

[versed latch]

that would also explain why he doesn't sleep
when one soul is awake the other sleeps
and would also explain why he can have 2 devil fruits

[pure raven]

it goes like he got 2-3 souls

[versed latch]

Like two Persons in one body

[versed latch]

no it's 2

[pure raven]

yeah and heard also he can get 3rd df
but idk

[versed latch]

Also a 3rd 💀

[pure raven]

theory no need to believe it
just think it never said

[versed latch]

If that's true then how tf is luffy gonna beat him

[pure raven]

well he got some advanced haki and some people say gum is good againsy his dark fruit

[versed latch]

and what will he do against whitebeard's fruit and the third fruit 💀

[pure raven]

bb is slow+idk if he got haki

[versed latch]

i think he does

[pure raven]

there maybe some limitations like he can use alternatively not at same time

[versed latch]

otherwise it wouldn't be fun and totally unfair 💀

[versed latch]

Ok that's actually smart
yee maybe

[pure raven]

if he does ,i still doubt if its that trained

[modest skiff]

This is not the channel for discussing fights. Please move this to manga

[versed latch]

makes sense
if the soul that posses the devil fruit isn't awake
that devil fruit can't be used

but i think during marineford he used both of them

i need to rewatch it to be sure

[pure raven]

okok

[versed latch]

we're discussing the theory of blackbeard having multiple souls and how him possessing and using multiple devil fruits works so it's a theory

[coarse peak]

Oda said in 2019 that Wano will be the most important arc to finding out what the one piece is and that the Wano arc is heavily related to the final chapter. Apparently flashbacks in this arc will start to piece together Rogers adventures

Separate conversation

[coarse peak]

I’ve heard theories that he absorbed Rocks D Xebec with the Yami Yami no mi and that rocks D Xebec ate the gura gura no mi in the tent

[primal cargo]

Yes ? We did get to see Roger's adventure in Wano

[versed latch]

wait so what does that mean

[edgy viper]

A) He was impressed by Oden, but Oden botched that impression right after by exiting Wano. That's supported by the fact that Oden himself, right before departing, reminds Sukiyaki that he hasn't changed a bit and that Sukiyaki shouldn't get his hopes up. Oden is telling his dad straight in the face that he does not intend to be the son Sukiyaki wishes for, ever, even if he could.

B) Sukiyaki didn't know about LT. But he surely knew the reason, or parts of it, for why Wano had to isolate for centuries. If we assume the Kozuki have absolutely no idea about their history, how high is the chance that over the course of 800 years there was not a single Shogun like Oden who said "fuck it, we open"? I would say that chance is abyssmal

C) I'm really not so sure about the fighting spirit of the Wanoese. Oden lost, and the Daimyos still didn't move an inch towards taking a stance against Kaido.

But I agree that if we assume Sukiyaki doesn't know anything about the Kozuki's history taking a stand together with Oden would have been his choice probably, dying like a warrior and whatnot. I just think this is impossible for reasons described

[coarse peak]

There’s more to come

[primal cargo]

They did take a stance against Kaido after Oden lost

[edgy viper]

Only after Kaido forced them to pick a side, tho
If Kaido hadn't done that Yasuie would still be happily sipping tea in Hakumai probably

[coarse peak]

Blackbeard absorbed Rocks D Xebec with his fruit and when “Blackbeard got white beards fruit” it was actually Rocks who came out of blackbeard and took the fruit and then blackbeard reabsorbed him

[primal cargo]

I've become a fan of the idea that Act 3 is gonna go symmetrical with a big flashback at the start and another at the end :
Start of Act 3 : Tokage port, lowest point in the arc
Extensive flashback about Oden & Roger
Then everyone arrives and suddenly it's all going extremely well
Raid, fighting, etc
Everything's going extremely well (that's now, all the fights have been won)
Suddenly something happens that makes the situation terrible (Luffy loses)
Extensive flashback about Kaido & Rocks
We finish at the lowest point again

[coarse peak]

Oda said when we see someone with a eye patch then the series will be ending soon. I think Rocks has a eye patch

What do you guys think will cause the Great War

[coarse peak]

There’s a reoccurring theme of small, medium, large arc. Wano is a large arc so that should set up the timeline

[slate mirage]

This seems accurate,but how many chapters do you think are left?

[versed latch]

Okay that's crazyyyy
but it might be true

[primal cargo]

Maybe as many as there were in Act 1 + Act 2 + Oden flashback ? Going for the full symmetry

[slate mirage]

So wano will not end this year?

[primal cargo]

I mean that's a possibility, can also be shorter while still keeping that structure

[pine delta]

i feel like wano has to end this year i don't know how we could get another 40 chapters

but who knows. maybe we will be in post wano when the year ends, but i am thinking we reach elbaf by end of year or very shortly after.

potentially a massive chunky post wano arc tbh i can see oda setting up every singel character for hype

[slate mirage]

I mean, If Luffy loses again and we get a 10+ chapters flashback + some post Kaido stuff, we might get to 40 chapters

[abstract pond]

A) Sukiyaki even if disappointed with Oden "not being the son he wished", he knew Oden was a good man, brave and strong. Just because Oden isn't perfect in his eyes you wouldn't condemn the entire country because of it. If Sukiyaki had the chance to save Wano and didn't because of that, he is an awful person.

B) Even if he knew why, did he knew the exact date it would happen? Was he willing to be the last Kozuki? Momonosuke and Hiyori were also there and he would have let them die.

C) After Oden died some samurais went to fight. But if Sukiyaki himself with Oden prepared for battle, most if not all samurai would march to war if only for their honour and loyalty.

[barren yacht]

Even if wano ends i guess first they will set up elbaf so no elbaf this year

[modest skiff]

This isn’t the channel for predicting arc length. Please move this conversation to manga

[pine delta]

hm idk if we need to set up elbaf toooo much. more just establish the reason we get there

cp0 worried me at first but they are kinda out of the picture now? i dont see some ships of WG mooks causing any issues to zunisha. unless blackbeard invades impossibly wano should be done

[coarse peak]

We already know for a fact that Blackbeard is multiple people

[pine delta]

oda will need to reignite the urgency of the finale so we will have our reverie update then and then shanks maybe that just spreads to set up the rest of the story and raise stakes

[modest skiff]

The channel has slow mode specifically to discourage the kind of light chit chat you were having regarding powers and how they match up. It is not what this channel is for.

[coarse peak]

Small, medium, large arc. Large arc is Great War, medium is elbaf, small is flashback island

[barren yacht]

Tbf i guessed for bb to invade big mom not kaido coz even bb wouldn't be able to guess the unpredictable situation in wano

[modest skiff]

We do not know this at all. Saying it is a fact is a giant stretch

[coarse peak]

What is the channel name?

[lunar topaz]

im dizzy reading this chat

[coarse peak]

I never said it was a fact, its a theory. In the theory channel…

[primal cargo]

I'd say it's a small stretch. The Jaya scene was a strong hint

[modest skiff]

Saying “it’s just a theory” as a way to make anything someone says valid is not a new idea and it isn’t good. I’m pointing out that the confidence you conveyed doesn’t make sense. A theory would be saying “it’s possible BB has multiple souls or is multiple people”, what you said was as if it has already been confirmed directly

[modest skiff]

Strong hint maybe but my point is that it can’t be stated as a confirmed core fact

[coarse peak]

I’m making a theory in the theory channel, if you interpreted it as something else then that’s on you

[modest skiff]

“For a fact” has an entirely different meaning from what you are saying

[coarse peak]

Did zoro and luffy not say that?

[modest skiff]

This has been discussed many times. BB’s crew was also in the area. It’s not established fact that Zoro and Luffy sensed multiple people in BB. And none of WB’s crew said anything like that despite spending a lot of time with him

[pine delta]

pls use official translations

[modest skiff]

Yes, that panel has been cited many times and that’s what I was responding to above

[coarse peak]

Unless BB is lgbtq+ then that’s means he’s multiple people

[modest skiff]

Please read my reply above, I addressed “they”

[barren yacht]

Reasons to invade bm territory and get the poneglyph

1 big mom is not there a chunk of bm pirates are also not there
2 marines are busy with shichibukai
3 no one is grabbing this opportunity currently

Reasons not to invade wano

1 kaido is there
2 bm is also there
3 the situation is quite unpredictable for him to guess and bb wouldn't make such a gamble

[agile tangle]

So do you think they refers to the multiple souls or his crew

[coarse peak]

Multiple souls

It’s the only way we know that someone can have 2 devil fruit

[agile tangle]

I'm pretty sure BB doesn't even believe Luffy is strong enough as he was laughing and said Luffy wasn't ready to become a yonko when it was announced Luffy was the fifth yonko

[agile tangle]

You mean more than 1 df?

[coarse peak]

Yes

[agile tangle]

This idea randomly popped into my head but what it people with the will of d can eat more than one fruit

I've seen a rather popular theory I think that BB's 3 souls are his own, the will of d member, and somehow rocks soul as well.

And so if you have the will of d you essentially have 2 souls and can eat more than 1 fruit

[coarse peak]

And honestly, BB might be 3 people. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got another DF by eos since his Jolly Roger is 3 skulls

[agile tangle]

But since majority of people in one piece aren't will of d members, they won't know that you can eat more than 1 fruit

[agile tangle]

Ya most people link that

[coarse peak]

I never thought that it could be his soul

But where would he find someone’s soul

[white pendant]

uh no

[coarse peak]

Ok

[agile tangle]

Not sure

[coarse peak]

Might have something to do with the origin of DF

[agile tangle]

I still feel that will of d linked to 2 df

[coarse peak]

IMO I don’t think that the will of d gives any special abilities. I feel it’s just a trait of someone

I’ve seen theories that it’s the Will of “Dreamers” or something along those line

[pine delta]

im convinced blackbeard is a hakuba situation which is why he doesn't sleep. but theres no way luffy and zoro would have any idea about that from their meeting. its clearly that they recognize its all one crew

[agile tangle]

Ya

I mean at that point they didn't even have observation haki or anything so I don't think it could have been them sensing that BB has more than 1 soul

[edgy viper]

A and C because points intersect at this point)
In the end, I can't disprove your point with the material we have. I totally agree that at face value, Sukiyaki not coming out of his bunker to aid his son reeks of cowardice. However we've seen this theme of a disposed ruler scheming in the shadows before, especially with Riku in Dressrosa and to a smaller extent even with Gan Fall in Skypiea.
The reason these guys acted the way they acted was always to protect their populace from greater harm. Even Cobra realised this back in Arabasta, and he didn't even know who his enemy was.
I find it interesting in this context that Kaido specifically states that if Oden had took up arms right after coming back, the battle could have had an entirely different trajectory. I think if Oden had done that, Sukiyaki would've come out. But by the time Oden did, Kaido's army was too strong. It was only Oden and his scabbards after all.

Also there is a a point to be made that the Wanoese didn't despise Orocho and Kaido back then. After all, their dealings were secretive, nobody knew Orochi amassed weapons and slaves. I don't think anybody but Oden suspected these two to wanna enslave literally every citizen of Wano

B) I think this is precisely Sukiyaki's predicament. He knows that he has the duty to protect his family, especially his grandchildren. On the other hand, he knows that a Kozuki has to survive until the promised day. So do you risk your family and save your lineage or do you risk the lineage ceasing to exist and try to save your family?
It's the very definition of a dilemma

[abstract pond]

The B) part doesn't make much sense tbh. Protecting his grandchildren and son is making a Kozuki survive until the promised day. If Momonosuke and Hiyori died too, he would be the last Kozuki and very old. If the promised day delayed a bit it would be game over for him.
What I mean is that to make sure a Kozuki lives, not saving his family is the opposite.

[edgy viper]

I wouldn't see it that way. If all fails and Oden, Hiyori and Momo die, Sukiyaki could've at least fathered another child and secretly upheld the Kozuki lineage. If he went to fight and all four died, the Kozuki are done for good

[pure raven]

My theory about van augur devil fruit is that he will get vanderdecken devil fruit

[edgy viper]

I think the reason why there must be a Kozuki at the promised time is poneglyph literacy. They kept the script alive in secret for 800 years, banking on somebody like the Ohara scholar's deciphering them is too risky. Thus, Sukiyaki assumes that if he and Oden die, Poneglyph literacy is also dead. Preventing that would be the greater goal Sukiyaki pursued with his actions

[pure raven]

i have read this, wow you truly made it long theory.

i like the idea luffy wont have much time to go to impel down, If the execution being hold in Marineford luffy will go straight there. but with the time, i prefer luffy and others will enter the war in the middle like he did in previous Marineford War with buggy, jimbei, crocodile.

Will we see strawhat Ship Flying ? Franky skills, i would like this happen.

If sabo being executed, what will Dragon army do? What i see Dragon not the type as luffy crash in w/o plan, the man with strategy, i expect Dragon army will do ambush either Marineford or Impel Down.

Regarding to vivi, she will be punished for the being traitor. As we know 800 years ago there were 20 countries pledge with WG as alliances that beat Ancient Kingdom during Void Century, Alabasta was one of those countires. During Alabasta vivi seem alongside with strawhat which are pirates, according to these, it seem Alabasta already broke the pledge 800 years ago as loyalty to WG.

In reverie gorosei asked im-sama to diminish something, at that moment im-sama hold vivi picture, i truly believe vivi and Alabasta will be punish and diminish from history like they did to Ohara.

your idea for boa hancock being slaved again probably higher, this will ruin her name as Princess in women island.

What if tenrybuto ask 2 question either being slave or death, boa will choose death than slave again. this can probably make another execution sabo and hancock.

i still waiting the scenes for Dragon, as he the mystery guy very hard to expect what he will do next. we only seen captain karasu, lindbergh, betty, morley, tbh they more like utility. Most of Dragon df user are utility skills, not more like combat as sabo fire df. However, the chance for Dragon's army vs WG still low.

this just theory, thanks btw

[fair sorrel]

When will leaks drop

[sand sail]

This isn't the channel to ask

[fair sorrel]

How many hours left leaks

[sand sail]

We only have a general timeframe, you'll get a ping about it if you get the spoiler updates role in #old-role-info

[primal cargo]

It's true that he could have intervened when both children were being hunted down after Oden's death. Hiyori was saved by Kawamatsu and Momo by his mother. Where was he then ?

Though it's also very easy to imagine that some circumstance made it impossible for him to come.

[neat agate]

He got killed by Orochi I think

That old lady with Orochi killed him

[pure raven]

IMO Sukiyaki had the important task of keeping several of Wano's strongest weapons (fruits and swords) until the promised day - that Denjiro also knew about. The fruits ended up being eaten

[velvet edge]

I actually like this. I’m iffy on hiyori having a mythical fruit. A zoan- fine I can get with it but the only reason I’m iffy on the mythical zoan is only due to how many mythical there are just in wano alone. Not really much of a reason I know just the only thing I can’t see due to how many there are

Otherwise I like this. It ties in kusanagi and killing orochi with ame no habakiri

[autumn cairn]

So a big question in the manga is what fruit are the gorosai referring to, and what is that fruits real ability. A lot of foreshadowing points to the gomu gomu no mi, and many theories claim this to be the case. My theory is along the same lines, but with a different, far less grand effect. I believe that if the gomu gomu no mi is the fruit the gorosai are referring to, it’s real ability is to turn the user into a balloon man. A balloon is a rubber sack typically filled with a fluid (liquid or gas). This keeps in line with the rubber man properties that the gomu gomu no mi grants. Interestingly, luffy has been using balloon based moves through the story. The first time we see this in action, luffy inflated his torso by breathing in a ton of air for gomu gomu balloon. This move is primarily defensive. The next time we see luffy implement a ballon technique is also one of the first majorly destructive techniques developed by luffy: gear 3. Gear 3 is reached by using the bone balloon technique, inflating the users bones granting a giant fist or foot. This brings us to luffy’s strongest technique: gear 4. The gear 4 state is reached through a combination of armament haki and the most recent iteration of ballon techniques: muscle balloon. Muscle balloon inflates the muscles and in conjunction with armament, increases the tension in the users rubber body, resulting in a major increase in power. Arguements could be made for other gomu gomu techniques being balloon based as well, but I will leave it at that.

[neat agate]

Nice theory

[autumn cairn]

Thanks, I think it also keeps on theme with oda wanting to have a protagonist with a silly ability.

[neat agate]

Like Gear 5 means awakening of df is rubber balloon man

[autumn cairn]

Part of my thoughts there, an awakening could be making a bunch of balloons. This could be the origin of balloon terminal, and could be a means of keeping onigashima from crashing.

[oak mortar]

Remains a possiblility.

[shadow ruin]

Baloon mugiwara

[ruby lance]

“Where everyone else has made it in One Piece”

At all equal grounds.
To mix all relationship.
With the use of;

Pluton to destroy the Red Line.
Poseidon to bring 1 race to the Sea Line. (Sea Kings)
Uranus to lead and sail ALL Seas.

When Roger said, “I left everything at that place, everything that the world has to offer.”

When the red line breaks, you have access to the whole SEA.

When Sanji said.

“This is my all blue” as a gag to the women in Fishmen Island. Underneath the Red Line.

Where Rayleigh & Crocus. Legendary Roger pirates who never witness the true One Piece/All Blue. Are literally beside Mariejoa. Middle of the Red Line. to “WITNESS “

[barren yacht]

Bruh it should be some ability that the wg fears

[vale current]

What do you think of the erasing ability theory? The wg would fear it bc it’s offensive against their lies rewritten history

[formal lantern]

nah they're terrified of balloons didn't you hear

[barren yacht]

Could be a possibility but there should be alot of rules and limitations if that's the case

[neat agate]

[vale current]

What if the awakening is to stretch space time as well how it’d be

[neat agate]

imagine oda says no awakening lol

https://tenor.com/view/duh-oh-duh-deadpool-facepalm-oh-no-gif-15402443

we to oda

[vale current]

Actually iirc Rayleigh said “some fruits” may awaken, so it may be not for all dfs

[neat agate]

when

I forgot

[vale current]

Guess when he was training luffy

[neat agate]

no like in dressrosa or whole cake island

yo when

[vale current]

Tryna look up

[vale reef]

I think 70% there will be a timeskip in next few arcs

[vale current]

But that’s a thought off a line may not be much

[neat agate]

why

like only after sabo's rescue I guess

[pure raven]

imagine luffy awakening makes him a giant 🤔

[modest skiff]

Are you referring to when Doffy said this?

[modest skiff]

Please don’t pester people to find information for you

[glossy oxide]

i think they must be, that is the first time we heard about devil fruit awakening (besides the prison guards because no one realized what that meant).

[vale current]

Yess. Ofc we make of that what we will but if it’s the case, would be more logical

[glossy oxide]

i really hope luffy doesn’t awaken his fruit in wano

[twin widget]

do u guys think we’ll have another timeskip?

[glossy oxide]

perhaps a short one, but nothing major, there isn’t much time for the crew to sit around and twiddle their thumbs, blackbeard is on the move, and is probably closer to reaching raftel than we think

that’s why i also don’t believe the crew will head to save sabo as well

[modest skiff]

This is a question for the manga channels since it isn’t a theory

People discuss the topic of time skips etc in that channel so don’t feel like you can’t pose any predictive questions there

[glossy oxide]

i’d argue it’s theorizing if there is going to be a timeskip

[modest skiff]

That isn’t our requirement to post in this channel. It needs to be more than a question.

[glossy oxide]

perhaps that’s semantics though

[twin widget]

wait mb, forgot i was in this channel

[zinc gale]

come to spoiler channel

[cyan berry]

This channel is exclusively for theories

keep it that way

[hallow fiber]

sorry guys

[weak arrow]

Just wanted to comment that we saw her in the capitol playing the shamisen as act 2 closed.

Granted, for some odd reason, a lot of people said this wasnt hiyori

[primal cargo]

Well there's no reason to assume it's Hiyori that I can see. All (or most?) of the Act openings & endings have those scenes of people playing music, dancing and stuff. I don't think these scenes are even happening in present Wano in real time.

[weak arrow]

It is Hiyori's exact outfit.

and the face is purposely hidden for it to be "mysterious" but in reality, it's not really "mysterious" because it's obviously supposed to be Hiyori 😅

[abstract pond]

And with the last chapter we know that the mask is to hide her expression

[primal cargo]

Guess you're right it is her outfit.
Still this could be from a "future" time when people are telling the story I think ?
Even if it's not, there's no telling if she's in the Flower Capital.

[weak arrow]

I'm not saying she's in the flower capitol now (she obviously isnt). I'm just saying his timeline has at least one error that he should account for in his theory

[pure raven]

yeah I saw that, but I don't see it as relevant, it's a very abstract thing, she could be playing anywhere

[weak arrow]

She's not playing anywhere, the panels are zooming out, thus she is playing in the capitol.

[pure raven]

the last two panels are zooming out yeah

[nocturne bison]

There is a chapter this week right?

[weak arrow]

no, the last 3

[weak arrow]

yes, dont know why you'd ask in this channel

[pure raven]

still abstract, still not relevant at all

[weak arrow]

just look at #announcements next time

[primal cargo]

No I understand what you're saying, but I don't think this panel invalidates stoop's timeline
If we're taking the zooming out as fact, it suggests she's in Orochi's castle.
I do think this is meant to be abstract, especially since the rest of the page is not in the same place at all.

[pure raven]

personal interpretation, then. And even then, her being in the FC right then would not be relevant in the first place

[weak arrow]

I'm not saying it to disagree with stoop's theory(Even though I do), im just saying he should change the timeline so it fits that

[pure raven]

no need for changes for that

[weak arrow]

Although Im of the opinion she hitched a ride with the other courtesans to onigashima

and that makes sense given she was in the capitol

[primal cargo]

And I don't think that's necessary because it's not a hard fact that she was in the FC at that moment. Anyway nice flair btw

[pure raven]

what would need to be changed?

I don't see it rn

[shadow ruin]

lets refrain from being offensive please

it just sounded a little hostile thats all

[weak arrow]

For this theory to work, Hiyori would do this:

• go from Ringo to Amigasa alone to get the sword
• go from there to Onigashima
  One way for her to do this is by having a fruit that allows flight. I believe it's a mythical pheasant Zoan

This part. Can be explained she went to the capitol and made her way with the other oiran to onigashima and does not need flight.

[pure raven]

it can be explained in infinite ways. One possibility existing is irrelevant to discuss the possibility I present.

Hiyori being in the FC before the raid doesn't invalidate the rest. It would be a detour if anything, so it is not really big on the timeline.

[weak arrow]

Yeah, it's just an alternate explanation given so you the flight idea isn't fixated on. Many people like the theory of her having a pheasant devil fruit just because they see it as the only reason she could have gotten to onigashima when that isn't the case.

[pure raven]

many people, not me. so it's not really interesting here

I am arguing that it fits everything else I present, and therefore that it is a plausible explanation

and, of course, because I love mythology, culture and the themes/references that arrive from those, finding a creature that fits Hiyori in so many levels filled my heart

[primal cargo]

A little "theory update" about Zunesha, more or less in relation to the Moon Fruit theory.

So we know Zunesha has been walking for 800 years after she's been punished for a certain crime.
The exact terms of the punishment, according to chapter 821, are roughly "You can't do any actions except walking ever again, unless you are ordered to" (and it's implied that Momonosuke is the only person can give Zunesha orders)

The question I'm asking you is, how is this punishment enforced ? What's stopping Zunesha from disobeying and going off to do whatever ?

It can't be that Zunesha obeys just because she agrees with the punishment (for example if it believes that the punishment is deserved, or because it's for the sake of the Minks). If that were true, then Zunesha would have most definitely made an exception when Jack attacked, as Jack was gravely endangering the entirety of Zou and the Minks.
For the same reason, it can't be that someone has been somehow watching Zunesha the whole time and stands ready to punish her if she disobeys. From what we can gather of Zunesha's character, and how self-sacrificial One Piece characters in general tend to be, she would probably accept punishment later for the sake of saving everyone now.
No, despite the people on her back being in immediate and mortal danger, and despite not being certain that she would even get an order, she still wouldn't defend herself from Jack's attack as long as she wasn't ordered to.
All this is to say that Zunesha is, very likely, incapable of disobeying her sentence.

.

So this means there must be a supernatural force that is, either physically or mentally, coercing Zunesha into compliance. The nature of that force is, I think, one of the main mysteries surrounding Zunesha.
Now the natural first idea most of us got, was an Ancient Weapon. The ability to control a giant animal is, after all, exactly the power of the one Ancient Weapon we already know.
Still in One Piece, the "primary source" of supernatural powers remains, of course, Devil Fruits.

In chapter 1037, we learn about the existence of the mysterious mystery fruit, and that on top of the panel of Zunesha arriving to Wano.
I think when you read that page with the aforementioned "supernatural force" topic in mind, it looks like a strong hint that the mystery fruit might be the one forcing Zunesha into obedience.

The rest has already been said many times. I think a user of Tama's fruit 800 years ago used their power to impose the punishment onto Zunesha.
Tama's fruit has been a top candidate for "mystery fruit" from the start because its name doesn't accurately represent its effects, and because it's only been demonstrated to CP0 very recently.

In chapter 1017, Tama gives "The order". She tells "all friends who ate the Kibi Dango" to join Luffy's and Momonosuke's side and fight to take down Kaido.
Moments later, Zunesha shows up with the intention to "fight together with Momonosuke".

Zunesha didn't plan to come fight in Wano from the start, or she would have told Momonosuke when they conversed in Zou. Zunesha apparently revealed massive secrets to Momo (being a companion of Joyboy ?), so I don't see a reason to think she would hide that from him.
Therefore it makes sense that something happened recently that made (or allowed) Zunesha to come.

It could be a perk of Tama's fruit, most likely of its Awakening, that a beast once tamed could remain under the effect even after the user has died, and obey the next user.
I personally believe that various Devil Fruits can allow for an effect to be made permanent through Awakening and sacrifice of one's life ; with the Immortality Surgery being one example, Kanjuro's Kazenbo potentially being another.

[vale current]

Mind boggling theory. Perhaps the previous dango df user was from Wano/Kozuki lineage, would explain how Tama got the fruit since Wano been shut off from the World, without foreign contact

[primal cargo]

Yeah, that's what they said in this ^ theory (among many other things)

[vale current]

Plus it makes a lot of sense Zunesha show up after the time in line Tama gives the order saying that “all” must fight

[hard condor]

Ya

[weary tendon]

If zunesha was commanded by tama then she wouldn't wait for orders for momonosuke she would simply do what tama ordered which kind of debunks this theory

[pure raven]

crocodile is luffy's mom

[analog sun]

Is there any theory as to where Kaido and the lead performers were when Ace visited Wano? They were supposedly "out at sea" but where?

[pure raven]

Guys I think that we might see kaido vs Ace flashback. During kaido vs luffy, kaidos is gonna say the last time I was this damaged was when I fought Ace. Then kaidos gonna learn that luffys is Ace’s brother. Which will then go into a flashback when Ace went to Wano to fight Kaido

This would honestly be awesome to see as a fan

[amber oar]

I haven't seen any, but apparently the timeframe coincides with the beginning of the SMILE business

[amber oar]

We already saw all the interesting bits of Ace's visit to Wano. He never faced Kaido, Yamato straight up said they never met.

[pure raven]

Ah fuck, I forgot bout that

I was just re watching marineford and it mentioned that Ace went to Wano to fight kaido

[amber oar]

The crew landed in Wano, they got pillaged and tied by the people of Tama's village, befriended them, then Ace went to Onigashima and only found Yamato. They clashed, then they became friends and then Ace left.

Come to think, it's a considerably long timespan Ace spent in Wano without coinciding with any of Kaido's higher ups. The only strong person there was Yamato.

Or maybe the rest were just chilling in Onigashima.

[analog sun]

Nah, Ace went to Onigashima right? Messed the dragon statue up there

[amber oar]

yep, but maybe he just went to the entrance or something

[analog sun]

I guess the way Yamato talks about it when they're there makes it seem like Kaido won't see this until he returns from his voyage

[heady parrot]

not if the original command was something along the lines of “protect zou by walking. outside of myself you are to only obey the kozuki clan.” knowing the kozukis made the poneglyph’s it’s not that big of a stretch that the previous user would entrust the kozuki line with zunesha and the road poneglyph on its back. even more so knowing that the minks and samurai have some sort of brotherhood from before the world governments reign.

[weary tendon]

So you're saying hiyori can hear and command zunesha as well

[heady parrot]

maybe ¯_(ツ)_/¯ or the command could’ve been even more specific in some way referring to a kozuki that could only be momo. we know they were aware something was gonna happen in 800 years so it’s not off the table that momo was fated to visit zou.

[weary tendon]

Then it would make sense if joyboy had Tamas fruit

[heady parrot]

that would be cool. if joyboy died in wano then his fruit would be there too. explains why nobodies seen it for centuries and it was so well known at one point that’s it considered a legend now. like if joyboy had it he was the one who made it a legend then he died in wano effectively hiding the fruit from the wg for centuries until tama ate it and cp0 saw her.

[pure raven]

iirc babanuki and holdem and a few other headliners were at onigashima during the ace flashback, I assume to guard the island while the executives were away.

[warm saffron]

The gura gura no mi awakened could be like a kroom sort of attack, that it attacks the internal rather than the external

[warm saffron]

Wouldn’t joyboy’s fruit be luffy’s
That is what everyone has speculated at this point, how the 5 elders want immediate killing of luffy, how they thought the devil fruits original name was erased from history for a long time, and all that

[heady parrot]

yeah i def think that’s the most likely outcome considering the most recent chapters. just entertaining that the idea isn’t a bad one. schroedingers devil fruit. it can be anyones until oda decides to formally reveal it.

[solid nacelle]

Well, then sugar devil fruit awekening really dangerous

[modest skiff]

I like this. Seems very reasonable

[peak swift]

Zunesha is human? Right? Right?

[modest skiff]

Please read the channel description. Posts like this are a better fit for the manga channels. This channel is for serious discussion

[primal cargo]

I think it can still work. The order is to "defeat Kaido together". Zunesha doesn't know Kaido so she wouldn't know what to do after coming ?

[muted ember]

The command she gave was to help Momo and Luffy beat Kaido. Since Momo is the only person who can communicate w it, it still makes sense to ask him how it can help

[amber oar]

yeah, Babanuki and the snake guy, both before becoming SMILEs

[fathom narwhal]

I was thinking zuneshia was a giant who ate a zoan type elephant fruit but what do i know

[remote stag]

okay i just caught up yesterday and i don’t know who Joyboy is?

[rancid linden]

Joyboy is the one who wrote the poneglyphs, was alive in the void century, the owner of the giant straw hat that emu looks at.

Might be best to watch a video on it. As there isn't anything that's like this is joyboy same way you can say this is Luffy

[split dove]

Gomu-Gomu no mi - Legendary devil fruit.

We all thought elders were talking about zunesha when they were speaking about awakening. But the current events says another story.

Elders gave the order to kill Luffy. But we thought of the reason, it's just when he defeat kaido he become threat to WG.

But think of it another way. Elders were talking about devil fruit awakening and it takes some year. And now they give order to kill Luffy. They were talking about Luffy's devil fruit not zunesha.

I think they were afraid that Luffy's devil fruit awakening happens soon. Gomu gomu ni awakening must be difficult and happens at certain amount of years. They were afraid this kaido fight may trigger the awakening and hence they ordered the hit.

This might be one hell of theory

What are your views guys?

[remote stag]

very possible and i’m wondering on two things

what could possibly be Luffy’s awakening and what possible future arcs can still happen

[lofty cedar]

in the 3rd panel, how is bm not in the list of the scant few capable of fighting kaido

[sick forum]

probably because kaido never seriously fought big mom

it's those that he has faced

[pure raven]

i think it will be transferring his rubber abilites to outside world other than him

not in surroundings but also in humans
as luffy 3rd gear is part of his rubber abilities and it can partially makes him gaint

so why not thinking he can do this with others thus can create some fake/time limited gaints

making it a legendary devil fruit which shanks would want to steal/who's who want
++ world government will fear it as they wanted to create gaints from a long time and so is many others

as gaints are a strong force you get on fight
so luffy power to create gaints (time limited or partial) would be a reason why they dont want it to awaken

[gray creek]

It’s feeling the most likely. Ever since the Who’s Who reveal, I thought the best answer for why the WG would hold on the fruit would be because of the potential awakening. Now we have another tidbit from the WG about a mysterious awakening that could neatly tie into the previous info and lead us in the direction of Luffy’s next powerup. After all, awakening was inevitable for Luffy.

It’s not uncommon for a protag to have unexpected or even fated significance. We’ve already seen that from Luffy with the Joyboy stuff. Now that we have a mystery around the gomu gomu, a mystery around an awakening, and the story demands Luffy get at least one more major powerup, Occam’s razor suggests it can all be resolved together

[peak swift]

I think it just like pica

[modest skiff]

The thing about this that doesn't add up is that the Gorosei seemed to receive NEW information which made them suddenly MUCH more afraid of a certain fruit. If the gomu was originally stored safely because it could awaken to create giants, what new info did they learn? The logic feels contradictory. If it is the gomu, and they just learned it can create giants, then why was it stored BEFORE they knew that?

Right now I think the legendary fruit and Luffy's are 2 separate topics. I think that the reason the Gorosei decided to kill Luffy is that, as they said, the situation is so chaotic that they could do it sneakily and blame it on Kaido. In my eyes, this means the Gorosei need to be careful to not let someone know they intentionally killed Luffy. So then there is someone who they have a deal with to not kill Luffy. I think Shanks's whole deal with the Gorosei is that they have a cease fire of sorts where Shanks keeps the peace in this and that way in exchange for not killing Luffy. I think Shanks has valuable information or powers that the Gorosei want to utilize or keep on tap. The arrangement with Shanks is that he complies with their requests so long as they don't kill Luffy.

In reality, I think Shanks knows that once Luffy has enough time, the Gorosei won't be able to kill Luffy even if they want to. So Shanks is feeding the Gorosei enough info or doing enough stuff for them to seem like he's complying, but he's actually holding a lot back. He's just biding his time until Luffy can become unstoppably powerful and influential.

With regards to Zunesha,

1. I think that Zunesha was stretched using the Gomu awakening. That's why their legs are crazy disproportionately long. Zunesha was made super giant, but super super tall using the Gomu awakening.

2. I think the legendary fruit is still Tama's. Zunesha was Joyboy's companion but somewhere along the way did something "bad", which I think may have been a misunderstanding but not sure yet. I think Tama's fruit's previous user controlled Zunesha and is the one to give Zunesha their orders. I think its possible this person is the one who commanded Zunesha to do something bad to begin with, but maybe not.

@split dove

[gray creek]

Zunesha is a specific species of long leg elephant, that was covered in an sbs.

Anyways, I just think we’re missing a key piece of info that made the gorosei change their minds, but that it’s still all related.

Personally, my biggest gripe with this line of thinking was that the WG should have known from the outset that Luffy had this power, and could have taken it back at any point. He wasn’t even targeted by CP9 when they had the chance to clean up government messes like Robin.

If fully think there was heavy doubt to the significance of the gomu gomu even among the top brass, and now either something happened to confirm their fears or that this is just such an opportunity that it’s better to be safe than sorry.

I also love the idea that Shanks has been pushing for some form of immunity using whatever connections

[modest skiff]

Damn, another SBS detail that evaded me. Thanks for the correction

[modest skiff]

In my eyes, the 2 facts we have are:

1. The Gorosei learned something new during the raid. Whether it was the existence of a fruit or a power a fruit has, we don't know. It could be Tama's fruit commanding animals or it could be Robin's fruit turning her into a demon. Or something else entirely. We don't have any specific info

2. The Gorosei chose not to kill Luffy before and feel like they suddenly have an opportunity due to the chaos. So this is what makes me really confident in my Shanks theory. They clearly need the cover of chaos in order to kill Luffy to avoid someone knowing they ordered it.

[amber oar]

The Elders didn't choose "not to kill Luffy", they were always either busy with other matters or were just unable to do so. Enies Lobby, Sabaody, Marineford, in all of those instances they were treated as any other pirate of his same league - "Dead or alive" as the bounty posters say. Issho was punished for refusing to capture him, and had he been captured he would have been either executed or thrown in level 6. But he has never been in a "capture only alive" situation, so "The Gorosei chose not to kill Luffy" isn't really a correct statement.

[analog sun]

The Kanji used is the same that Imu uses for "extinguishing" the light, so it could also be straight from the top and not from the Gorosei

[primal cargo]

If I'm not mistaken it's also the same one in "time to erase that nuisance", and generally every time the WG talks about "erasing" something or someone

[cyan berry]

Urouge is called the Heretic Monk for a reason

just because we havent seen much of him doesnt mean he's completely fine

[normal plume]

It is really strange though how the Gorusei want the CP0 to come in the middle of Luffy vs Kaidou fight and not wait until its over. What are they scared of happening if it reaches its conclusion? I don't think its on Luffy's end as they have known he's had the gomo-gomu no mi a long while now, if it was related to his fruit (ie. awakening it) they would've acted by now. Then its probably on the chance that Kaidou loses, they want to take care of Luffy before he can take care of Kaidou. Couple reasons perhaps 1) they don't want Luffy's notoriety to increase even more and he will cement his place in the yonkou from this victory? 2) they're scared Kaidou may blab some extra stuff about the void/Joyboy/Roger/WG secrets before going out? 3) Kaidou's hiding some strength if he uses it can affect more than just Wano?

If it was just because its a suitable cover (the chaos of an all-out war) to kill Luffy its not convincing for me. It's easy to just pass credit to someone else for killing him like an admiral (having CP0 done it) since he's a pirate. The Gorusei don't need to show their direct involvement- its easy to keep that secret and even if they were known to be involved- so what? Luffy is growing as a threat and a notorious pirate in their, and hence most of the worlds, eyes

[split dove]

Then why they safeguarded gomu gomu fruit first? Due to some important significance right?

I think shanks talked to elders regarding Black Beard not luffy

And I stand by my theory

[split dove]

What if they thought Luffy won't realise the fruits Power?

Now think of this way. The only way to awaken the gomu gomu fruit is only to speak with it using voalt. Luffy has it. And this fight may trigger it.

And this will let us understand about devil fruits too via luffy and his devil fruit conversation

[split glacier]

Probably not. Doesn't make sense for the story honestly and we're learning about DFs from Vegapunk. That's literally been his worth of mystery all this time.

[modest skiff]

While you are right there were other situations previously, within the raid, you agree the Gorosei expressed a sudden ability to kill Luffy since the situation was chaotic and it wouldn't be obvious they were responsible, right?

[modest skiff]

It could be significant while also not being amazingly significant. We know for sure the gorosei learned something new, prior to being safeguarded. No matter how you slice it, it can't have been safeguarded for reasons they only learned years later

[lucid tide]

Roger had a secret df. Roger had a horse horse fruit or mythical centaur fruit. 1. Whitebeard's weapon is historically used to fight horseback men, we havent seen roger ride a horse because he is part horse. 2. Kaido got the idea of beast pirates from the last pirate king, a man who was half beast. 3. Speed the only other centaur has a very similar smile. 4. Oden comments that Roger has the spirit of a wild beast during their fight

And you know the best part, what is Franky's Ultimate form? (he reveals it on the sea train)

[lime cape]

Pluton has a fatal flaw like death star in star wars and Franky knows it :')

[keen aspen]

Guys i have been doing research and I have come to the conclusion that Joyboy is probably north american folk legend paul bunyan

[bitter kraken]

Post your research

[gray creek]

You know, this may be a shitpost but not only can I see it, I’ve thought the exact same thing. Or at least that they’re similar

[keen aspen]

I wont elaborate

[pure raven]

If Hiyori actually knows Hitetsuyaki personally, and he would know of her fruit... She could also know Tama. The pheasant Tama didn't have to complete the Momotaro squad.

This would mean that the Hiyori/Denjiro/Hitetsuyaki flashback that is about to happen (if my full theory is true) will also include Tama's full backstory. @tired osprey

This is a great theory for everything I stand for - beauty, culture, reason, interconnectedness, love, peace, belief in individual and collective strength, chaddery.

It's interesting that it can actually connect pretty much all loose ends from Wano

[lime cape]

this theory?

Joy Boy built the Red Line (Paul Bunyan one piece theory)

1- Paul Bunyan - Giant Lumberjack USA folklore Hero
2- Popularised by William B. Laughead who worked in the Red River Lumber Company.
3- His friend was a giant blue ox (Zunesha)
4- He built USA rocky mountains (Red Line) playing "aggressively" with the ox
5- He is waiting for someone who has a D. on the name. His girlfriend name was Lucette Diana (D.) Hackensack
6- Lucette means in Italian Graceful Light and it seems to be in relation with the name Lucy (luffy's name on dressrosa colosseum)
7- Diana -> Japanese (Daiana, the moon goddess)

@bitter kraken

[keen aspen]

no not that one

[lime cape]

the D. would be a moon kanji misspelled

[pure raven]

POINTS THAT MY THEORY CONNECTS

• what happened to Sukiyaki + why Orochi didn't answer
• all the Hitetsu/Sukiyaki connections
• why+how Hitetsu (Sukiyaki) has the swords+fruits
• how Yamato ate a treasured fruit from Wano
• how Hiyori would be confident in her ability to give Zoro Enma
• the room with the dolls having a firm door
• why Ame no Habakiri exists (the sword that kills the Yamata no Orochi in the legends)
• how is the sword meant to kill Orochi when Momo left it behind
• Hiyori wanting to kill Orochi
• how Hiyori would be able to get Ame no Habakiri from Hitetsu
• how Hiyori reached Onigashima
• Tama's lack of a pheasant
• Orochi eating people + Kusanagi no Tsurugi
• Ame no Habakiri being the opposite of Enma (being so light it doesn't have the weight to cut, requiring the user to use loads of haki) + connection with the feather kanji used in its name
• how a sword with no weight would be able to cut weak Orochi
• the timing for Hiyori treating the scabbards and for when the scabbards find Orochi + Hiyori's plan involving the scabbards
• what Raizo means by preparations
• where Denjiro is + what he's doing
• the weird panel of Hiyori laying down in 1041

that's a lot of connecting

[gray creek]

Over all it’s very solid. The specifics about the pheasant fruit are the only thing I don’t buy. The “shell” on the ground and Hiyori sneakily flying up to sabotage the ceiling is particularly far fetched. Hiyori’s character also doesn’t really relate to that myth except superficially in that she took in a double persona. But like you point out, she isn’t even the only character to exhibit that dynamic

[modest skiff]

"Orochi didn't answer"?

"The room with dolls having a firm door"?

"Tama's lack of pheasant"?

"How a sword with no weight can cut Orochi"?

I feel like I read everything you wrote but I'm not understanding what you mean by these

[pure raven]

So if you read the big theory, you know how they connect.

Orochi didn't answer
[image 1]

The room with dolls having a firm door
where Sukiyaki would be [image 2]

Tama's lack of pheasant
Tama follows the Momotaro theme. Momotaro gave **dango **to animals to befriend them - a monkey, a dog and a pheasant. Monkey - Hihimaru, Dog - Komachiyo, Pheasant - Hiyori

How a sword with no weight can cut Orochi
well this is explained here
#manga-theories message
#manga-theories message
basically, Orochi would be in no way to protect himself - he'd be weakened by his lack of will, by the seastone and by the fear he'd have from Hiyori [we know the Kozuki affect his physical, after Oden was killed, Orochi couldn't take a bath because it was "too cold" even when it was scalding]

[modest skiff]

Ah, sorry, maybe I didn't go back enough steps. Can you link me the "big" theory?

[pure raven]

the word shell is more on the abstract concept. It does explain how it goes from "Hiyori" down on the floor to her playing and the ceiling collapsing in the right moment, in the right place, as if it was planned.

nah she relates to the myth pretty well if I do say so myself. It would also be an answer to this panel.

But I concede that that part of the theory, though plausible (or I wouldn't support it), is also pretty esoteric and grounded on how I love themes based on myths and fables (as Oda seems to do too)

[pure raven]

#manga-theories message

[modest skiff]

Thank ya

[pure raven]

nah I appreciate you wanting to read it

[quiet dirge]

Oda forcummed all of this bru

[lyric berry]

I like your theory @pure raven , the panel of hiyori lying down is especially interesting. Also now I’m a believer of hitetsu theory

[pure raven]

thanks.
yeah my interpretation of that panel is probably what has caused the most controversy in my theory (outside of my choice of fruit for Hiyori), but it does explain the chain of events very well.

It's similar to how I once thought that Oda made several mistakes in ch988 when King's flames go out only in certain panels (throwing Shinobu and then when grabbing Sanji). In fact, it was later explained how that happened, even if Oda never actually told us to go back to those pages and review them.

[weak arrow]

I also admit, that panel of hiyori is super weird. And last time I thought there was a mistake (Law pirates on Onigashima), it wasn't a mistake.

[lyric berry]

TBH I’m not sure it provides much credence to your theory as I’m not 100% I buy that she leaves her “shell” to break the roof but it definitely does seem purposeful the way she’s laying in one panel and sitting upright the next

[pure raven]

I should not have used the word shell lmao, I just meant the clothing

but yeah it's purposeful, my interpretation is but one way to explain it

[lyric berry]

If the whole place wasn’t already coming apart I think it would be way more plausible

[plucky rapids]

I have this theory that's been sitting on my mind. What if the one piece is actually the world itself? I saw a vid about a recent chapter(not sure what chap) that one piece isn't actually just One piece. It says that one piece have different pieces, what if the number of pieces are 4? If you think about it the number 4 has been mentioned multiple times without making it seem suspicious (four yonkos, four different seas, four strawhats who are born in east blue etc.)

What if the 4 pieces was actually the east, north, south and west blue? In order to make it "one piece" you need to destroy the line that is keeping it from being a piece.

Back at fishman island that girl who predicted whitebeard's death also predicted luffy destroying fishman island and as we all know fish man island is at the bottom of red line which is the like that keeps the pieces not being able to connect. If luffy were to destroy the red line there will be no east, west, south or north blue anymore it will be "all blue" which makes it a ONE piece

She had also said that the prediction could've happen a year or a month from now which means the actual date of luffy "destroying" fishman island is undetermined, could possibly mean that him destroying the red line will affect the fishman island

And also what exactly is Noah's true purpose? I have this theory that his final purpose is to make all fishman people go to the land because joyboy "predicted" that someone will destroy the red line somehow or somewhat his promise to poseidon. Noah is big enough to carry a whole bunch of people from an island (can even destroy an island). It's too much of a coincidence

I know this isn't chapter 1041 theory but i can't find any server that has any theory channel

[vale current]

Now Noah being used to carry lift fish ppl makes absolutely sense lol I’d even say painfully obvious. Do you think Zunesha could be related to it?

[steady prism]

So basically you’re insinuating by the time the Straw Hats reach Raftel, in order to “get” the treasure they must make “all blue”? ….yeah I kind of like it. That’ll make the final clash between Luffy and the marines that much more critical

[steady prism]

Imo, I’m a fan of the idea that Zuneisha’s true purpose ends at Wano; his crime is related to the reason why Wano closed its borders 900 years ago. He will somehow open Wano’s borders by the end of this arc

[vale current]

I’d agree. Why do you think Zunesha’s crime is related to Wano’s closed borders?

[steady prism]

Long story short, I think that Zunesha is related to the reason why Joyboy couldn’t keep his promise with the former Poseidon.

In fact, I’d take it a step further and say that it’s because of this “incident” that the Flower capital had to be preserved

There’s a theory about how the Flower capital and Jaya island are related. Have you heard of that?

They both have a history of being called the “Land of Gold” and have been constantly fighting to keep out intruders. So, what if Joyboy had to migrate (or have someone move) the Flower capital from Jaya to Wano in fear of the imminent “purge” of information?

If this is was caused in part by Zunesha, then it’s fair to say his punishment is justified imo

[vale current]

Lol I Never heard of that before. But why so? Why move Jaya to Wano? One Piece related?

[steady prism]

I think it’s because the Flower capital 1. have people that have written the poneglyphs and 2. have a wealth of information on the ancient country and/or One Piece secrets. Big Mom alluded to that when she was falling and thought “where is it? It’s hiding here somewhere…”

The Jaya/Wano connection is pretty insane, but it fits so well when you look at all the arguments. I’ve only scratched the surface here

[vale current]

Man it does make sense. But the the only purpose is the poneglyph that exists within them?

So if they find and read the Wano one, Wano served its purpose?!

[steady prism]

Maybe Big Mom is looking for Wano’s Road Poneglyph somewhere on the island? If so, it’s kinda funny that Zunesha decides to walk into this mess lmao

I don’t know. I think this will be answered when Momonosuke talks to Luffy after this battle. He’s learned his purpose, which I think is the reason why Oden wanted to open Wano

From the story’s perspective, Wano has served a lot of purposes. But from Luffy’s POV, Wano’s a stepping stone that I think will do two things: 1. unearth the path he’ll take to look for the fourth Road Poneglyph and 2. discovering “the second ruler” that the sea kings were talking about in the flashback

Personally I think that second ruler they were talking about was Uranus, a living weapon like Poseidon. The only character that fits that bill right now is Momonosuke since he commanded Zuneisha

[pure raven]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[primal cargo]

I still don't get how that panel is weird. Is it just because she's down on the floor?
Like that's my main problem with the theory, I don't see what needs to be "explained" here

[pure raven]

Someone from the editing team or something deconfirmed it

[marble fern]

so if momonosuke really knows his purpose then one thing is clear, what he needs to do cannot be actually fully done by being in the land of wano, he needs to go outside. Also even though momo looks olders now his brain still lacks the maturity and knowledge. He doesnt know what has happened in the 20 years he skipped, he doesnt know the government, true nature of pirates or anything. So when the war finishes the chance of momo becoming the ruler is way less. I think Hiyori might become the ruler and Momo might join with luffy or go an a journey with zunesha or somethin. Momo becoming the ruler with less maturity and big body doesnt fit right for me

[round heron]

So just a kind of funny half-baked theory that I have had for a bit in the chance Luffy’s fruit is special in some way. Maybe instead of the “Gum” fruit it’s the “Reach” fruit or some equivalent. And maybe this fruit awakening, or just a property of the fruit ig, allows him to “reach the heavens” and take on the form of deities (G4). It would also explain why he’s able to do some weird bending in snake man and change his form in such a unique way if he’s not constrained by just the properties of rubber. Maybe there even could be things about it enhancing the users ability for their feelings or voice to reach others or for connections like with Zunesha (maybe if the user is also able to hear the voice of all things, there is some kind of special interaction or it leads to the fruits rare awakening,) but that parts sorta a stretch (lol). There’s some other connections to a theory like this based on like, the comments by Mihawk in MF, chopper says hililuk told him pirates “have voices like the thunder”, and just in general there’s sort of a theme of Luffy trying to reach others in some way throughout the series. In skypiea, another important arc, when he rings the bell he screams out “Reach them” or similar. He tries to reach robin, ace, sanji. I don’t necessarily need anyone to like heavy debate this with me though please, it’s more just a bit of a crack theory that’s been on my mind for a while and I posted it rn when I’m dead tired lol so I really can’t tell if I explained it properly

[opal delta]

Well that's a reach

[dire flint]

Valid theory

(For Luffy, hesitant about the ussop one)

[nimble hornet]

1

[pure raven]

hehehe this is a spoiler

some of it

[steady prism]

Sounds more like a theory than a spoiler…

[steady prism]

I kinda like how it’s open-ended. Just wondering, how do you explain his “balloon” abilities, his “red hawk” skills, and his immunity to Enel’s electricity?

[split dove]

Destroying red line is not gonna happen

Uniting every people and kingdom and making everyone equal is one piece

That's what revolutionary army is doing

[split dove]

Like joyboy promised fishman to bring to land

[steady prism]

The revolutionary army are liberators, not destroyers. I doubt they have the power/motivation to destroy the grand line

[split dove]

Now it makes sense. What one piece is? Why Roger and oden laughed? Why Rayleigh said they couldn't do anything?

One piece is uniting every people and destroying differences.

[split dove]

Wow

[steady prism]

Yep. And I do think that Luffy is going to destroy the red line to unify the 4 seas into one all blue

For Roger to do that, he’d need Uranus and Poseidon’s powers to do so, which want available at his time

[split dove]

Nope red line destruction secondary. Liberation is primary. Making people overcome differences etc

I think you might get my point

[steady prism]

I do, but I don’t think it’s Luffy’s goal to go to every country and liberate oppressed people. That’s the revolutionary army’s primary purpose. Tbf every place Luffy goes he does “liberate” people

[split dove]

Red line can be destructed only through unity. Imagine every people in the world of different species and different race gathering together as one piece and destroying red line

[split dove]

Yeah

He liberates people and brings joy and make them forget differences

[steady prism]

It’s interesting, especially since the red line is pretty freaking long. He can’t do this by himself or with just his fleet

[split dove]

Dragon is carrying out Joyboy's will with d in his name

Luffy is doing the same

[steady prism]

Yeah I think Dragon does know some “taboos” in the world and is trying to fix it via the revolutionary army

[split dove]

Yeah. So my theory is one piece is really about gathering everyone and every race and species together and make them forget differences and brings them joy and live in one piece

So Rayleigh said they couldn't do that at that time. Maybe Roger sparked it.

By creating great pirate era and letting people to find freedom

That's the real reason behind the Roger's words in execution

Roger has done his part

I think this is the real reason behind one piece and Roger's action

Because oden cries after reading Roger's execution

[steady prism]

The only problem I can think of is how will Luffy get people from all around the world to come together and destroy the red line. Uniting the world would require either 1. a very long time or 2. a very big bad enemy for people to unite against

[split dove]

He actually doesn't cry about Roger's execution he cries about reading what Roger did.

Roger steered young people towards freedom

[steady prism]

Yeah, imo Roger’s main goal during his execution was to inspire an era of pirate in hopes that in 20 years, his successor will be motivated to find One Piece

[split dove]

But everyone mistook his words

Except luffy. His goal is to be free. That's why he became pirate

[steady prism]

Yeah, and that’s why we have former Roger pirates stationed at the Red Line, Sabaody Archipelago, etc. They’re looking for Roger’s successor in the midst of the new era of pirates

[split dove]

So you can connect my theory here. What is Joyboy's will and will of D too. And what really is one oiece

[split dove]

Yeah. The one who will bring freedom and unite everyone as one piece

Roger and Joyboy's will

Joyboy wished for this but Imu didn't like this idea. So yeah. I am solid in my theory

[steady prism]

I agree that Joyboy and the Will of D are related to freeing people. I’m just trying to think through what would it take to destroy the grand line and how could Luffy motivate everyone to help achieve it

[split dove]

That's the story

Oda already gave the reason but how it happens we need to watch it slowly

[steady prism]

Afaik, Oda did say that One Piece won’t be something like “oh the treasure is the friends you made along the way”. It’s going to be a tangible thing. A byproduct of this will be some sort of unification on all 4 seas

[split dove]

Yeah uniting people isn't same as making friends

👀

[steady prism]

The keyword is “tangible”, like a physical thing. “Unity” is a concept. I’m not disagreeing with you. I just think there’ll be a physical thing at the end of this show

[split dove]

It's a physical thing only. A thing that may lead to unification of people

Got it?

[split dove]

It maybe history tablet or something related to void century or something that makes everyone break difference and unite as one piece

[steady prism]

We’re saying the same thing. The tangible part of One Piece may or may not help unifying the people. Or maybe there’s several “things” at Raftel. Anyway, it’s a good thought, I guess we’ll wait and see

[split dove]

Yeah

Uh I forgot my dinner. Got to go. See ya

[steady prism]

Later~

[clear trellis]

What do you guys think about that Sunwukong Theorie?

[red echo]

It’s cool

[fringe elm]

I think it’s a very cool power up

Make luffy more capable and more of a threat

Especially when he fights Blackbeard

[steady prism]

It makes a lot of sense, but idk I don’t like the idea of him being “Sun Wukong” himself. It’s….almost too OP. At the same time, I can’t think of a “portion” of Sun Wukong’s powers/abilities/weapons that would be a better fit and explain the gomu gomu powers he has

[fringe elm]

Yeah I had that issue too, but I mean just look at sengokus fruit, when do buddas shoot lasers from their hands

[steady prism]

Yeah, you’re not wrong. Idk with Nami having Nimbus/Zeus, I thought Oda would give Luffy a “part” of Sun Wukong’s powers

Idk it always amazed me that one rubber boi could do so much damage against these big enemies like Doffy and Enel. But now with the Sun Wukong lore, it makes more sense

Should this be a G5? Nah this sounds moreso like an awakening ability for Luffy to have. A bigger question is was this Joyboy’s df?

Did Luffy inherit Joyboy’s “will” via this df? Or through the Will of D? Or both?

[split dove]

Will is not passed through df

It's their will, their actions

[steady prism]

It is. Sabo showed that in Dressrosa. Bartolemo. Whether that “will” means the predecessor’s “thoughts” or “feelings” or “personality” idk

Here’s Sabo proving it in Dressrosa arc

[fringe elm]

Not to mention the time sabo said something very similar to what ace had said and Zoro mentioned it

But then that makes you wonder, did Blackbeard Inherit whitebeards will/actions?

Maybe it’s that you are predispositioned to inherit the will/personally of the previous user… after big mom got the soul soul fruit, she didn’t immediately become evil. As she was guided into the life of pirating she may have slowly subconsciously succumbed into mother caramels personality

[primal cargo]

This does not prove anything beyond the fact that the community will take anything literally
This line by Sabo is simply a more "poetic" way of saying he wants revenge for Ace, that a part of him won't forgive the Blackbeard pirates for what they did to Ace, and having Ace's power makes him feel like he has to carry out that revenge even more.
Whether or not Sabo is "inheriting Ace's will" (I'd say he does), there is no reason to think the Devil Fruit has anything to do with that

[steady prism]

It could have been poetic justice. There are only two other fruits that I know of that have been passed to a second user in One Piece. First one is Bartolomeo’s barrier-barrier fruit, which was originally held by Semimaru, a major supporter of Orochi in Wano. These two character have very different personalities, but the single overlapping similarity is how much they both want to protect/support their “king” as much as possible. The second one is Mr. 2’s clone-clone devil fruit, which was originally held by Higurashi, the old lady that helped Orochi ascend to be the shogun. Both characters have very similar personalities (scheming, playing pranks, deceitful).

[steady prism]

Tbf this is only 3 examples in total, but I think that’s enough to say that these devil fruits might not just have a power in them. Maybe they have something else that’s not as apparent

[steady prism]

Does it depend on how he consumed it? Idk according to CP9 you can’t have two devils in your body, which means he did something very different….maybe just like Big Mom?

[cyan berry]

We know it's because his body is different according to Marco

And he was the ships doctor so his opinion about bodies carries more weight than most people

[willow atlas]

1. The new fruit we see the CP0 agents talking about was Tamas, they then proceed to talk about a mysterious fruit

[lyric berry]

I think 1041 gives major credence that they were talking about luffys fruit

[modest skiff]

I don't think it does. I'd say the opposite actually. If they say the chaos of the situation means it will be hard to prove exactly how he died, that means they have some level of incentive to have someone not know they are responsible for it

[lyric berry]

Their urgency in 1041 makes me disagree with you, They had been keeping tabs on luffy the whole time he was in wano but now all of a sudden they give the order to basically drop everything and kill straw hat. There was chaos and disorder way before this, why now all of a sudden?

Also who cares about proving how exactly he died? He’s a pirate who is wanted dead or alive anyway

[modest skiff]

I would say the chaos and disorder is significantly higher now than before, but I wouldn't say it is easy to feel confident one way or the other. Not gonna pretend I have a ton of evidence. All we have is hints right now

[lyric berry]

Fair

[modest skiff]

I elaborated more on my thoughts previously if you are interested: #manga-theories message

Hopefully we find out with today's chapter! Just another 12'ish hours to go!! lol

[autumn oracle]

Luffy has some thick plot armor.

I mean if Madame Shyarly envisioned him destroying fishman island, doesn’t that mean he will have to come out of Wano successfully?

I’m part of the small proportion that thinks Shonen protags don’t have to win, to make for a good show but I mean. .
He has to win here, right? 🤔

[sand sail]

No, he just has to live here

Winning is entirely optional

[modest skiff]

Well first of all, she never saw his face, so we can't be 100% sure. Second, we don't know how far in time that is, if it is Luffy. Luffy could be stuck in prison for 10 years, then get out some time later

[lyric berry]

I’d have agreed that it wasn’t luffy before the last chapter. I also wish luffys fruit wasn’t special but their sudden urgency on killing luffy kinda points to me that it is him. If it was someone like Tama or Law they’d give an order to snag/kill them and not luffy. I also think they wouldn’t shy away or care about public perception on who took luffy out. If anything they might even want to boast about taking out luffy, he’s a major influential figure now and taking him out would be a huge win for the govt and justice

[autumn oracle]

I guess winning and living are separate but I just can’t see Luffy willing to leave Wano without succeeding first.

[modest skiff]

So then you are assuming the information they learned about his fruit was from someone/someplace else, not from Wano?

[lyric berry]

Honestly I have no clue, that’s the only hole in the “it’s luffy” theory. Bc you’re right that him having the Gomu gomu was no secret so idk why they would be so surprised about it

That’s also the major reason why I didn’t think it wasn’t luffy initially but the way 1041 developed kinda flipped that for me

[clear trellis]

I also think it is Luffy

[lyric berry]

I really have no idea who it could be otherwise now

[steady prism]

Just wanted to say I like your interpretation better. Shanks’ motivation for meeting the Gorosei was always confusing to me until I read your thoughts on it

[lyric berry]

Also Oda putting major importance and backstory with Who’s Who now feels like setting up the gomu gomu to be a major plot point in hindsight

[modest skiff]

2 possibilities:

1. Someone else suddenly tells Gorosei "hey just FYI apparently the gomu fruit is actually the (blank) fruit, which makes the Gorosei like "holy shit, I knew the gomu was a good fruit, which is why we had it safely stored away, but I didn't know it was THAT fruit

2. During the Wano raid, CP0 see someone using a fruit in a special way and they report that back.

2A) Robin: Black Maria is 30 feet tall. That's really huge. Robin grew horns, sharp teeth and broke Maria over her knee. Robin got REALLY, REALLY big. It wasn't limbs. It was an entire transformation. This transformation does not relate to flowers at all

2B) Tama: fruit name does not remotely fit its actual value/purpose

[lyric berry]

At this time I think #1 is most likely

[modest skiff]

If it is Luffy's fruit, it can't be from seeing it do something in Wano, since Luffy has not done anything new in Wano yet. So it would have to be from other information. If the information comes from Wano, it can't be Luffy's. Both are entirely reasonable to me, but who knows

[lyric berry]

Yea I can agree with that

[clear trellis]

Yes and now where luffy might lose his consciousness he might use the voice of the universe again to talk to Momo or zunesha?

[modest skiff]

I'm still very open to the idea of it being Robin's. Her transformation really was something extremely unique and different.

[clear trellis]

And maybe zunesha can tell luffy something about his df in case joyboy was the preowner?

[modest skiff]

Maybe, Luffy's new psychic communication ability was not present during Zou, so maybe he can talk to Zunesha now. Feels unlikely, but maybe

[lyric berry]

I’m not so sure about Robin, yes it was a unique transformation but I’m not sure it has powers with world changing consequences

Like I don’t see why the gorosei would be sweating so much about it

[modest skiff]

Me neither, I'm just saying her fruit is one of the ones that we know has a name which does not reflect its power. Whichever fruit it is, the name does not indicate the true capabilities. Giant demon thing does not relate to flowers, so its on the list for me

Perhaps her demon form can do more than be really strong, who knows. The horns and teeth make it seem like it goes beyond "Big and strong", as if it has some sort of character or other abilities

[lyric berry]

It is cool for sure but I don’t think her fruit is the one they’re talking about. Plus robin already has major significance against the WG I don’t think Oda needs to pile it on more with her DF

Not that you’re saying it was. Just adding more evidence lol

[modest skiff]

The thing that makes me give it a bit more credit is that her people were called devils and the whole idea of “devil” fruit. Similar to how Wano has kept certain devil fruits within their civilization, perhaps Robin’s people had a specific fruit that she ate, an actual devil fruit. But again, I got no evidence, just pondering

For her to suddenly transform into a devil looking thing makes me scratch my chin

[lyric berry]

I write it off as Oda being poetic and giving robin a power up

[modest skiff]

Perhaps, but Leo and all his folks having bug themed fruits has made me wonder if once upon a time, certain races or nations had certain fruits

[plucky rapids]

not that i said that revolutionary army is the people who'd do that. Maybe just MAYBE the giants will destroy it

[plucky rapids]

ofc they dont have the power to destroy grand line, if they did they would've already destroy the marines

[lyric berry]

Thatd be interesting. Kinda unrelated but I always wondered why Choppers DF full human form was always messed up. Like he’s the only full form zoan that isn’t quite right

[modest skiff]

Yeah chopper is another good candidate for the weird fruit. He’s never actually turned into a human

[plucky rapids]

same, i've always wonder how chopper is able to transform into different types while other zoans cant

[cyan berry]

His pre ts heavy point was a human

Just a very hairy human

[plucky rapids]

just like the mink tribe but not exactly?

[lyric berry]

Not really though, you’d think he’d be a normal looking dude but he’s a yeti reindeer hybrid

[cyan berry]

He's just a yeti

[modest skiff]

Yeah but humans aren’t that hairy. All the other zoans just turn into normal versions of it

[lyric berry]

Mythical zoan: model Sasquatch lol

[cyan berry]

There's nothing in his heavy point design that has anything relating to a reindeer

Except the hair I guess

[lyric berry]

Fur and reindeer nose

[cyan berry]

But I feel like it's completely plausible for his heavy point to be a normal human, just hsiry

[modest skiff]

All I’m saying is Chopper is the only zoan that doesn’t do a perfect transformation so far

[plucky rapids]

im pretty sure that there's no human on earth that has a very hairy neck

[modest skiff]

Everything else turns into exactly what it’s name is

[lyric berry]

It might have just been for plot so that he’d have no friends on drum island

[modest skiff]

I don’t think Oda is that lazy

[cyan berry]

Sengokus Buddha fruit just turns him into a golden giant

[abstract pond]

Chopper fruit always been sus
Human human powers? hmmm

[cyan berry]

He doesn't actually change into a statue of the Buddha

[lyric berry]

Odas great but he made two important characters have amnesia for plot lol. He does miss sometimes

[plucky rapids]

you have a point, or maybe because he have other transformations (points) which makes him unable to fully transform into a human

[lyric berry]

And having chopper have a messed up transformation for plot I think is more forgivable than the amnesia honestly

[cyan berry]

Amnesia?

[lyric berry]

Big mom and sabo

[cyan berry]

Why compare two completely different things

What does Chopper have to do with either of those characters

[lyric berry]

I only brought it up to show Oda can be a lazy writer sometimes.

I’m not relating it to anything else with Chopper

[plucky rapids]

not really, the amnesia actually makes alot of sense if you think abt it

[lyric berry]

Let me revise: Oda’s writing has its faults sometimes

I think amnesia is probably one of the worst plot points you can bring in a story. Maybe that’s just me but it screams plot convenience

[plucky rapids]

not saying that there isn't, just saying that the faults isn't exactly the amnesia

[lyric berry]

But we’re getting off topic, I’m dying on the hill that both amnesia plot points in the story were badly incorporated. Please resume with theories

[plucky rapids]

maybe you just dont like it, no one is forcing you to like it. Doesn't automatically makes worse/bad either

[lyric berry]

Like I said I’m dying on this hill lol

[plucky rapids]

chopper is like a mink but not exactly one

and the fact that he can transform into other category like kung fu point or monster point is something else, if he were to give or make a pill exactly like his pill what would happen to other zoan who would took/drink it??

[lunar shell]

Breaking news : Out of the blue I figured out that Roger dream that he wanted to realize after being pirate king wasn't done. That his why his will carry on. Its the same thing that Luffy says cuz Luffy inherited the will.

Its definitely joy boy's dream

So. This childish but impressive dream that created such a strong will was made by Joy Boy.

Now you can carry on with your theory with those new facts.

I guess the dream is something like : I want to have such a great adventure that when readed, it will bring a smile to everyone.

That would have a double meaning obv.
But also that works well with the reaction of Sabo, Whitebeard Ace and the other dude.

Only the greatest pirate can tell the greatest story.

[gray creek]

This has been a topic of considerable speculation. Something to note is that Roger did not set out to be the pirate king. Unlike Luffy, that wasn’t his dream. It’s not feeling entirely necessary that Joyboy was a even a pirate, although he would likely be in modern times. Anyways, whatever the dream is, let’s expect it to be grander in scope than pirate things

[lunar shell]

Oh I know that. He set up to be the greatest pirate thought. It just didnt have a title yet.

When he is a great pirate, he would be able to accomplish said dream ( said dream we dont know, but both Roger and Luffy said the same thing )

[gray creek]

It definitely relates to freedom, then

[lunar shell]

I dont know, maybe

What is for sure thought, is that it is linked to his ' will ', this will that want this ' dream ' to be accomplished

Its mathematically true if you add all facts

[gray creek]

Well Luffy’s idea of PK was about being free. If it’s a prerequisite to be a great pirate, then the dream can only be accomplished by someone totally free

[lunar shell]

You might want to think from Oda mindset perspective.

Hiriluk speech reveal some of this mindset, japanese in general like the idea of an undying will.

[modest skiff]

Here's what I said about this topic previously, we seem to somewhat align #manga-theories message

And follow up with this #also-manga message

I feel very good about my theory of the phrase ending with "for freedom" and that it is the core will of pirates that has been passed down starting from Joyboy, the first pirate captain

[lunar shell]

Yes I agree with it all. I would say that it may be link to how fruits works, and definitely with how blades and 'spirit ship' work.

[modest skiff]

yes, I agree with that and I've written about that at some point as well

[lunar shell]

Also. I wonder if Luffy wasnt unconscious under the water, and that it's actually his will who talked to momo, without luffy being conscious, we had an hint to that after his first defeat against Kaido and the way he looked at him.

Also I believe the conqueror haki is what allow the voice of all things

If this is accurate, Oda will definitely have momo say ' you talk to me at that time ' and luffy ' I don't remember '. So we will see.

( again japanese like those guys that are unconscious but are still standing cuz their will wont faint )

[surreal oriole]

I've been thinking lately that Luffy's/Roger's will is the will of a kingdom and not an individual. Being whatever was the Ancient Kingdom. Dont have much too go off of tho just speculation

[surreal oriole]

I guess you could call it the collective will of an entire nation, one that probably cherished individual freedom and who ever inherits that will is the joyboy

[dire flint]

Luffy Theory is VALID

His point is that Luffy's fruit could possibly be a mythical zoan Type: Sun Wukong

[halcyon talon]

how far down the neck we talking? check out tom brier, he's/was a pianist and has quite the neckard (neck beard) lol

[knotty sky]

I still don't understand how rubber would be connected to Sun Wukong

[pine oasis]

This isn’t related to the chapter but what if brook’s devil fruit awakened let him bring someone back to life in exchange for another life or smth like that

[neon flare]

god level theory mods pin this

[vapid minnow]

oh thank you

[plucky rapids]

From neck to chest something similar to this

[modest skiff]

My theory regarding Chopper is that the model of his fruit happens to be beastly in some way, which makes his transformations coincidental. Either that or specifically a shape shifter that ends up being “hybrid” to an extreme degree, which is how monster point etc came to be

[halcyon talon]

do you think any of his forms (monster point being the most likely out of all of them) could be his zoan awakening

[warm dew]

Wait who's the one that isn't Sabo?

[shut finch]

Big Mom I assume

[lyric berry]

Ye

[nimble schooner]

Who else smells a kaido/luffy team-up against the world government?

[dark junco]

that would be pretty awesome ngl

[pure raven]

I do not; I smell the death of Cp0 guy though

[dark junco]

is cpo lucci or someone else

[pure raven]

the guy in the chapter

[dark junco]

yea

[pure raven]

that's also not lucci; lucci's at mariejois atm

[dark junco]

did they reveal who the masked man was

[pure raven]

nope

[dark junco]

what happened at the last page i was kinda confused

[nimble schooner]

All the pirates know who the common enemy is. I think by the time the final arch rolls around we’re going to get a lot of cameos from basically every crew the straw hats know, friend and foe

[dark junco]

i saw oden and why did mask dude use iron body

[high arch]

The cp dude blocked luffy attacked and let kaido hit luffy unconscious

[nimble schooner]

To hold luffy in place

[pure raven]

CP0 guy stopped Luffy from firing his attack.
Kaido couldn't stop his attack
Kaido saw this as like the time he beat Oden when someone cheated and enabled him to win. Which Kaido literally killed the person who did that

Kaido hates winning in an unfair way.

[dark junco]

this is getting interesting u think kaido will kill masked man?

[pure raven]

not a doubt in my mind unless someone knocks out kaido first

[dark junco]

i doubt anyone can knock out kaido in wano rn

[pure raven]

which like... probably not gonna happen given all the best fighters are tired, out of commission, or unconscious

CP0 guy is fucked hardcore

[nimble schooner]

Masked dude ain’t getting out of this alive. Unless that other tall CP0 recovers from his loss to the Whitebeard commander and rescues him somehow

[dark junco]

how is linlin holding up

i just read the recent chapter for the sake of it dont know what happened before that

[pure raven]

she's out of it

like fully out of it. She's off onigashima, over the water or something sitting like a rock.

[nimble schooner]

Linlin can’t even fly, but if she’s conscious then she can just make another homie to carry her back up.

I imagine even if she were conscious she’d be like, “f-it I’m done with this shait”

[dark junco]

💀 sounds like someone did a number on her

[pure raven]

did you not even read the previous chapters?

[dark junco]

no i did not

[nimble schooner]

She’s for sure alive, but at the bottom of a deep ass hole

[dark junco]

i wonder what leads up to the the "biggest war"

[pure raven]

that's a bit obvious

Luffy and company finding the one piece, World government makes their move for their "Great cleansing", and black beard makes his move while Kaido and BM are broken free from whatever eventual prison they end up in.

[dark junco]

i have a feeling the war will happen before finding the one piece

was there any update what katakuri or doffy is doing

[pure raven]

Oda's stated that one piece won't end after finding the one piece.

it'll end when the story is done. so there's some stuff after finding the one piece

[dark junco]

the crew gotta visit albath

[pure raven]

aka war/blackbeard/imu

[pure raven]

yea that's the next arc after this one probably

Great war will probably happen 1-2 arcs afterwards assuming that Elbaf is the area we meet Shanks

[amber oar]

unpopular take but I fully agree with you

[toxic solstice]

something we all questioned is if the yonkos have future sight haki

and kaido showed that he does have it

[amber oar]

I don't think they're bound to have it and Kaido may not be as proficient at it - otherwise he would have used it throughout the entire battle

[deft yoke]

was that flash backs cp0's ?

[dark junco]

did luffy have future sight when he fought kata

[toxic solstice]

Or it is that the older they get the less they can use it. Just like rayleigh and white beard

[pure raven]

he developed it during

[toxic solstice]

garp and sengoku

[dark junco]

why is oden there

[pure raven]

whitebeard's weak.
Rayleigh might not be as proficient

[pure raven]

where did you stop reading/watching?

[deft yoke]

and the look in kaido's eyes

[dark junco]

killver vs hawkins i read the few chapters before that and thats it

[dense haven]

god damn it

I wish it was next week already

[dreamy kettle]

I have no idea what’s gonna happen next

[dark junco]

i wish it was Saturday already

[pure raven]

OnePiece1043: CP0 guy gets fucking murdered

[dreamy kettle]

Any ideas? 😩

[night lava]

Gets deleted

[deft yoke]

i think maybe cp0 could b oden

[pure raven]

man wishes he died to drake

[dark junco]

kaido gets pissed kills the masked man and maybe someone from government will show up to wano

[pure raven]

be less painful than to Kaido honestly

[night lava]

Kaido becomes depressed, luffy endured the attack and kaido becomes happy because luffy didnt have the same fate as oden, they both fu,ck the cp0 boss

Then they continue the fight

[dense haven]

there is no way luffy gets up

[night lava]

OR next chapter wont be about luffy vs kaido fight and will cut into yamato and momonosuke

[pure raven]

My money on Luffy getting the same drug Zoro got or Marco's been holding out on his healing ability

[torpid knoll]

Bro all luffy do is get up

[night lava]

It always happen like that

[dense haven]

no more senzu beans plz

[night lava]

Good fight scene gets cut and oda shows us other events

[night lava]

Plot armor

[pure raven]

Kaido's gotta get down somehow otherwise.

[dense haven]

wasn't marines coming or was I dreaming

[pure raven]

i get a slight feeling after this chapter that kaido(as a drunk dude who isnt rational rn) could team up with luffy to beat cp0

Oh wait a minute... DUH

prolly pushing it a bit tho

that's how Kaido goes down. It's so obvious. I'm annoyed I didn't think of it sooner.

[night lava]

Luffy will have a big big big ass pull, hes already on the verge of passing out + got hit by kaido in the recent chapter

[regal wyvern]

that'd be interesting, but like i dont think luffy would want to team up with kaido

[pure raven]

https://tenor.com/bFhUU.gif

[regal wyvern]

like ever

[pure raven]

true

[night lava]

They will prob just smack him away out of their fight and not rlly team up

[regal wyvern]

after all kaido is like the samurais biggest opp, he despises him for making the ppl of wano starve to death

[pure raven]

Was watching the fight and legit forgot about Zunesha comin to fuck shit up.

[regal wyvern]

and literally ruin them the past 20 yrs

[amber oar]

Kaido having flashbacks of how his own battle with Oden was interrupted.

Honestly this shouldn't need to be explained, just a little bit of attention

[regal wyvern]

kaidos probably gonna start crying

[amber oar]

Anyway let's not convert this in another #manga channel - this is to discuss theories

[dark junco]

oh shit i completely forgot about that

[night lava]

My theory is:
Next chapter will cut into momo

And zunesha

[timber sorrel]

Last page is a parallel to Oden and Kaidos fight, right?

[nimble schooner]

My prediction: luffy recovers the ponaglyph from kaido. Straw hats find their first devil fruit while looting his stuff.

Zou smashes the navy ships and the crew has a banquet on the newly liberated wano. Perosperro slips away with the unconscious Linlin and reunites with the rest of the big mom pirates.

The straw hats find a reason to go to elbaff where they scrimmage with shanks.

Linlin is intercepted by Blackbeard and her devil fruit is stolen.

After that, no idea

[timber sorrel]

I’m actually curious as to how Kaido reacts to the interference this time

[nimble schooner]

Wouldn’t be surprised if the new admiral is among the navy ships outside wano

Maybe their keeping him close to HQ since the revolutionaries are attacking

[night lava]

This could happen but i dont think the big mom and blackbeard event might happen

[dreamy kettle]

I agree CP0 is going to be killed for sure. I’m just wondering how this is gonna turn out for luffy and the battle. Is luffy still going to be able to beat Kaido after this? 😩

[night lava]

Def no, he will prob get a massive asspull

[dreamy kettle]

Damn. Next week feels is so far away right now

[night lava]

Might be a stretch but kaido might let luffy heal

[dreamy kettle]

Yeah. That’s true

It is a stretch

[night lava]

Or it might be a katakuri situation where kaido might injure himself

To match up with luffy's current situation

[bitter kraken]

Luffy would need several days to heal and this war is in the here and now, unless luffy still has fight in him with plot armor he can win. But there is a chance that kaido joins forces with luffy now

[novel scroll]

Watch this one sentence become an hour video essay by One Piece YouTuber

[night lava]

Very low chance for kaido to "join forces"

He will prob just help by slapping away the marines that ruined their fight, then it will prob be back to action

[amber oar]

This is how rubber used to hunt

[modest skiff]

Everyone please keep in mind this channel is for theories, not predictions based on the latest chapter. Discussing the latest chapter should be done in the manga channels. Everyone is posting their predictions there. Don’t post general chit chat about what might happen next chapter here

[queen pollen]

anybody notice in this chapter that kaidos eyes are double ringed now i went back and looked he never had eyes like it before it reminds me big mom and Mihawk. could it be a thirst of bloodlust

[dreamy kettle]

I really have no idea what’s going to happen with Luffy next chapter. It’s hard to predict with what we have to go on. I’m just going to trust Oda and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

[dreamy kettle]

Gotcha. Thank you for letting me know.

[pastel glade]

Can I say I believe Kaido is going to go after cp0 for interfering in the fight and Laffy regain his strength or a third party will interfere

[modest skiff]

People are discussing exactly this topic in the manga channels. Please join that discussion rather than using the theories channel for that

[steady prism]

Damn you’re making me want to reread OP all over again. Afaik ppl thought that those eyes are either 1. Just artistic or 2. Has something to do with possession or souls. It doesn’t make sense why Kaido would be showing these eyes for anything other than just art. His background, while not fully clear, doesn’t lend itself to the “possession” theory

[crystal laurel]

after luffy vs kiado , blackbeard may come for kaidos df and then shanks will come and stop him

[steady prism]

Big Mom had her rinnegan because of hunger….

[fringe elm]

Guys, I read the chapter and saw the line

rubber doesnt work like that guys, it just doesnt

[digital epoch]

OK here's my theory/dream setup for the rest of the arcs after Wano

Elbaf: Big Mom will NOT be present- Davy Back Fight w/Shanks... Information on Loki, maybe a lore dump regarding Big Mom's origins, Lot of great Usopp moments and maybe some kind of tourney, real light hearted stuff after Wano. Lore dumps regarding what just went down at Reverie. Shanks and Blackbeard get screentime

Emerald City Arc: Real futuristic location, current residence of Dr. Vegapunk. Either this will be a short mini-arc built around Smoker and G5 delivering the Punk Hazard Kids to him, or the Straw Hats showing up and getting a final round of powerups before the manga wraps up. Either way, reveal of Dr. Vegapunk, the true nature of the SSG, maybe Greenbull. May possibly coincide with Lodestar Island. Wouldn't be surprised if this was a Nami arc. Marines making their move.

Lodestar (if not Emerald City): Blackbeard shows up on Lodestar, or somewhere else, and challenges the crew to a fight. The Blackbeard thing might end here. Blackbeard reveals that the entirety of God Valley was stored in the void generated by his fruit, put there by Rocks, and that's where the fight between the Straw Hats and the Ten Titanic Captains takes place, on a lost island suspended in darkness...

Laugh Tale: Ok this is the big one. After a truly surreal last leg of the journey, the SH crew makes it to Laugh tale and finds the nature of the One Piece. Leads into final war, luffy gets so pissed at some secret revealed in the true history that he storms Marie Jois with all his allies in tow.

Final War: Immense conflict at Marie Jois. Huge Marine Fleet, SSG mechs/robots/whatever and Cipher Pol VS almost every pirate crew that's left, fractured allied Emperor crews, along with Luffy's other allies. Luffy punches Im through the redline and destroys fishman island, series ends.

[chrome spire]

Nice dream setup. We gotta keep getting dark tho…I don’t think this is the worse they’ve yet to encounter just yet.

[vapid minnow]

Yeah I agree with this, these are the 5 arcs I can 100% see happen after Wano. I’m thinking maybe Vegapunk first then Elbaf, But Big Mom will be present for that arc. Definitely think this is where the story is headed

[winter ocean]

Not a bad prediction

[weak arrow]

You need to factor Sabo in here somewhere. Although you can just add a 3-5 chapter impel down rescue arcs the revos do and that'll suffice.

Also depending on how serious you thought the 5 years statement was, this seems impossible.

Without the 5 years statement, I would pretty much agree with all of those islands.

[winter ocean]

We’ll get a dump of revolutionary backstory when we meet dragon before the final war. Kuma was a tyrant king who saw the light after dragon unseated him and wanted to atone. Boney will play her role in this section too.

[weak arrow]

I mostly meant in regard to the news of Sabo. Luffy is going to learn of it and if it isn't dealt with, Luffy will deal with it himself post-haste.

[winter ocean]

Oh, I think it’ll be something not super pressing for Luffy. Like Sabo if sabo is blamed for Cobra’s assassination, Luffy just won’t buy it.

It’d be interesting if they actually do escape with Kuma and Vivi

[weak arrow]

Well, the news is going to mention sabo's death or execution, likely the latter, thus he'd want to go rescue him

[winter ocean]

And The government make a move on Arabasta

[winter ocean]

I really doubt it

[nimble venture]

lets see who will save luffy now

[shadow horizon]

O shit we have our self a katakuri flambe situation here

[nimble venture]

caribou might come again

[winter ocean]

It’d be too much of a repetition. And Oda can’t have Luffy go to Mary Geoise only to go to laugh tale later and then back to overthrow the government

[weak arrow]

Well, then that's what I'm saying AdamantCardshaper needs to take into account in his arc theories/dream set-up. Imo, the news can only mean it announced sabo's death or execution. If it's the former, it wont divert his path. If it's the latter, then he'd go and rescue him.

That's why I propose the revolutionaries will have a ~5 chapter arc that involves rescuing Sabo. This can be occuring as the raid happens or as Luffy sleeps post-raid (like he often does post-arc), and then wakes up to news of sabo being rescued.

[winter ocean]

I don’t think the news will be either

[weak arrow]

Those are the only 2 pieces of news that can fit the reactions of the revos, makino, and the bandits

[winter ocean]

Not really, sabo being blamed for Cobra dying can cover it

[weak arrow]

No, makino/bandits would not react that way

[winter ocean]

Why not?

They just discovered he’s alive and he’s being blamed as a terrorist

[weak arrow]

Because they don't care about Cobra, nor would care about killing him.

They already know he's labeled as a terrorist

[lunar topaz]

no bandits said "Please tell me it's not true"

[weak arrow]

aka a revolutionary

[lunar topaz]

low battery gtg

[winter ocean]

How would they know? I’m not convinced sabo was widely known outside the world government intel until recently

[winter ocean]

I’ll have to review the Japanese later, but I think it can still work if he’s accused of something horrible

[floral venture]

Cp0 agent will now become the pirate king after beating both luffy and kaido

[weak arrow]

They found out he was alive in the dressrosa news. Why else would he be in the news unless it was announcing his association to being a revolutionary

and luffy/ace were pirates

not exactly a much better profession

[winter ocean]

Do we see Sabo included in the dressrosa reporting?

I’m not sure what he did to get included in the public story. He held up Fuji for a bit, destroyed a secret port and an arena in disguise and beat Jesus away from witnesses

Yeah we don’t see a reaction to sabo

[nimble schooner]

Less an event and more like an assassination. They might even find Linlin at Elbaff as a sweet powerless old lady after her powers are stolen

[weak arrow]

"we only just found out he was alive" aka the dressrosa news told them he was alive. Now a couple weeks later they got this news

[winter ocean]

Maybe yeah...

I can see what you mean more now

I’m not convinced there’s no alternative to those 2 options tho

[weak arrow]

What explains that reaction then?

[winter ocean]

Well the accusation of him doing something super nefarious is an option still imo, if it’s heinous enough/ shocking enough. “Like, we thought he was dead, but now it it turns out he might be a monster”

Alternatively it could be a false propaganda story and they announced him dead

Maybe he appeared to die, losing a limb or something

[weak arrow]

Heinous isn't enough for me. They could just believe Sabo did what he did because Sabo thought it was right.

Death announcement can be fake or real, doesnt matter to me really, but just that his death/execution being announced are the only options that make sense.

[winter ocean]

It could even be a combination:

“Revolutionary’s Number 2 mortally wounded by admirals Fujitora and Ryokugyu after an attack on the Holy Land! King Cobra killed during skirmish. Navy to annex Arabasta.”

I can’t see him being captured is the thing

And I really think Cobra and Arabasta must tie in

[weak arrow]

I mean, that's essentially announcing his death so at that point, it's mainly just semantics

[winter ocean]

True

You’ve more or less convinced me, I still think cobra plays a part in it, but yeah going off those reactions he does seem to be in bad shape

[weak arrow]

Someone being convinced on the OP discord

[winter ocean]

Haha you made a good argument

[weak arrow]

In pins, under after math of reverie, you can read my theory on what I think happened

Maybe that’ll even convince you of the execution part

[winter ocean]

Okay I’m revising my idea for it:

Meeting occurs between Cobra and the Elders. He digs too deep and his ancestors were probably always against the Government since they didn’t join the rest of the first 20 and concealed pluton/ a poneglyph, so he’s killed. There’s an order for Vivi’s arrest. Sabo and the revolutionaries try to extract Kuma from his undercover mission, they succeed, but Sabo has to stay and fight the admiral he is severely wounded and arrested along with Vivi. They break out thanks to Sai and Leo of the grand fleet, since they were around. When Luffy hears the news it’s already got word of Sabo and Vivi’s escape, or maybe Sai and co contact them directly.

Either way sabo is in rough shape and Arabasta is screwed and Cobra and Vivi’s fate are blamed on the revolutionaries. They’ll say the terrorists killed cobra and kidnapped Vivi or something, so the government has to take direct control of the nation. (And they’ll search for pluton during it)

I think it’d be neat if the other major news coming out of Wano is Blackbeard attacking WCI and claiming the Lode Poneglyph while most the BM crew is in Wano.

Although that seems unlikely, going off of the cover story

Unless there’s a time delay

[junior cape]

Kaido is gonna be so fucking angry next chapter lmao. CP0 guy is basically a corpse walking. It also helps that Drake put a hole in him, so he's not going anywhere fast. However, this does raise the question of what happens to Luffy? I think he'll get back up, as he always does, but the next few chapters are likely to be Kaido-focused as Luffy regains the strength to go on. This is substantiated by the panels of Kaido remembering his fight with Oden being interrupted, and how miserable he was after that.

As for what Kaido's gonna do to him, I wouldn't put it past Kaido to just wail on CP0 for a good couple pages, just unloading all of his grief, while Luffy is just coughing up blood in the background.

This will be where we get Kaido's backstory.

[mint barn]

I don't think big mom is dead.

[junior cape]

IDK man the bottomless pit she fell into would say otherwise

[summer quiver]

What if the end of this chapter was just Kaidos future sight of cpo interfering

[harsh notch]

same

yo what yall predict on Luffy and Traffy's bounty after wano end?

[simple parrot]

Captain Lidd to zero

[junior cape]

Nah Kid and Law both get 2 Billion+ easy. THEY TOOK OUT BIG MOM. There's no dancing around that fact. Combined, they are on par with a current (to the rest of the world) Emperor of the Sea. Their bounties have to reflect that, so 2Bn+ minimum.

Blackbeard and Co. had a similar situation, they finished off Whitebeard, so their bounty went skyhigh.

[lavish raft]

fax

[lavish raft]

but his wasn't a proper defeat

[lavish raft]

they raised his bounty because he had 2 broken devil fruits and they commited privacy afterwards

[junior cape]

I'm not saying it was or wasn't a proper defeat. All that matters in the end is who killed who - the victor writes the history books. But yes, Blackbeard's unprecedented 2 fruit status also likely helped, and his conquers did too.

[mint barn]

I think the bounties will be around this
Traffy/Law: 2-3b
Zoro: 1.2-1.8b
Sanji: 1-1.6b
Luffy: 2.5-4b

[junior cape]

OK let's break that down.
Kid/Law - 2-3Bn makes sense, they took out one of the 2 MVPs of the raid, and this reflects that.
Zoro - Seems a bit low, he managed to take out a Lunarian, a super rare race, who was also Kaido's No.2. I feel like it should be 1.5Bn minimum
Sanji - Again, seems a bit low, he took out Kaido's No.3, so I think 1.3Bn minimum, especially with his new body.
Luffy - I think he'll be in the 3-4Bn range, since he took will take out the other MVP of the raid.

[lapis spruce]

If there is a Kadio backstory I hope they show his wife or Yamato's mother

[lapis spruce]

Who is the other MVP? You mean Kaido or someone else?

[junior cape]

The MVPs are Kaido and Big Mom. If they don't go down, the raid is lost, regardless of whatever else happens. Law and Kid took down Big Mom, and Luffy will take out Kaido.

[vale current]

I like other theories for the df the gorosei talked about, but the gomu df being a mythical Monkey deity is so possible since there’s Buddha df

[radiant garnet]

I dont really get how his df can be something mythical or completely different from just the gomu gomu no mi. Wasn't it stated that the eater just knows the devil fruit name when they eat it? so surely luffy would already know?

[mental mulch]

Law’s bounty is going up to 5b because of his sexiness

[vale current]

That can depend I guess. But the gorosei actually just highlighted the awakening of the df they’re referring. So gomu df might be the monkey god df if awakened, meaning the rubber skills were a part of it

[slim moat]

Yu-kiang
In ancient China, it was believed that a mythical creature by the name of Yu-kiang ruled the ocean. This creature was often described as a large fish (whale) that was several thousand feet long and had human hands and feet. When Yu-kiang became angered, it would turn into a giant bird and cause terrible wind storms in the ocean.

Yu Kiang, a dragon-riding water god who rules the sea. Mythical monsters.

Posting this myth. It might be relevant in future.

[radiant garnet]

i see, but its strange that no other devil fruits awaken like than no? or do you think thats what makes the gomu gomu no mi so special?

[vale current]

Might’ve been the take on Kaido

[slim moat]

That's the dragon in the art work though. The legend is about the guy who is riding it.

I might end up as whales enthusiast or something similar by the end of one piece. 🦥

They are really fascinating.

[vale current]

If we go by what Rayleigh said about Haki, then certain df may only awaken thru violent battles. Guess what would make luffy’ df special is something related to what hyougoro said when he saw lufffy’s power “he looks just like a sun god (myouou)” smthn like that. Then the whole thing about dawn, light, is just what the wg/gorosei fear

[junior cape]

Kaido is just distraught. His one chance at a perfect fight, where everything is on the line for him and the opponent, has been shattered by govt. interference. He will not let this stand. CP0 guy is toast lmao.

[honest igloo]

That man is not getting out of there alive

[vale current]

Guys #manga for manga stuff. Here is for theories

[honest igloo]

I mean my statement is a theory, since we don't actually know

[radiant garnet]

good point

[vale current]

To post elaborated theories and their discussion

[tepid coral]

@oblique basinIf you have questions regarding the latest chapter or what's gonna happen in next chapter, #manga is a better place to ask them. This channel is for detailed theory discussions

[junior cape]

Here's how I think the next chapter will go. It'll start off with a short catchup of all the people nearly hit by Kaido's laser, followed by either a convo between Yamato and Momo, or a cut to the flower capital. Next, it'll cut to Kaido just having a breakdown over his ruined fight, while the CP0 guy bleeds out from Drake's sword wound. Then, Kaido will do the Kaido thing, where he gets super pissed off over this interference, and will just wail on the CP0 guy until he's either dead or just about. I think he'll get tossed off the island after that, just for added disrespect. Finally, Kaido will turn to Luffy, and wait for him to get back up, while thinking back on the past, and we'll get a flashback to Kaido's origin story. Chapter will end after that.

[radiant garnet]

anf then proceed 6 months of flashback

[junior cape]

1044 will be more Kaido Origin story, followed by the fight with Luffy resuming about 2/3 of the way through, although at an increased intensity.

Nah, not 6 months.

[radiant garnet]

maybe 5 and half

[oblique basin]

I think Law and Kid should at least 4 B since they're defeating the BM

[thorn saffron]

maybe 4 split between both of them

[mint barn]

They 2v1'd her. And when bb defeated whitebeard and got 2 df he only got to 2b
Luffy though is soloing kaido and he gorosei are saying smth about his df.

[radiant garnet]

4 b is proper yonkou level though, and they barely won together

[oblique basin]

For this one, it's not fair to state Teach beat Newgate since it's more like "FINISH HIM" in mortal kombat 😂 , and the 2B comes from his own skills to possess two dangerous devil fruits

[mint barn]

Well your righht about finish him but he also got wb's df and another strong df

Also law/kid would of lost if they tried to solo bm.

[oblique basin]

That's make sense, but important point to highlight here is the awakening since it's drastically change the game. I'm pretty sure BM should lose easily if she didn't cheat with her DF to regen the staminas

[mint barn]

(Her*) Also you can't really say cheat cause then that'll mean using her devil fruit powers is cheating.

Law and kid relied on there df's.

[mossy egret]

Is oden alive?

That cp0 guy looks like oden no shit

[mint barn]

I don't think that guy is oden.

Unless he's being controlled by imu/wg or smth.

[oblique basin]

My point here she's already KO several times, so Kid & Law actually can kill BM easily.

[radiant garnet]

tbf he did say he envied drake for enacting his own justice...

[mossy egret]

Idk why would they show the flashback then like momo father one and the cp0 guy face structure is very similiar to oden

[mint barn]

Yes they can without big mom using her df. But she has a df for a reason.

[oblique basin]

What if Momo is the land version of Shirahoshi which able to interact with any land animals?

[oblique basin]

Yep, that's fair

[full cairn]

its because kaido was enjoying the fight with oden and got super upset it was interrupted by the old bag, now the fight with luffy got interrupted and it reminded him of oden fight

[mossy egret]

Did the oden fight include oden calling his daughter out "momo" but tbh why would kaido remember that memory at such a point

[full cairn]

what? daughter momo?

[mint barn]

He was the first person to make kaido bleed/enjoy a fight. He's feeling pain and is starting to have fun in his fight with luffy so aybe thats why?

[mossy egret]

Wait I think I misunderstood somethin brb

Calling his son out*

[full cairn]

do you remember when the old lady transformed into momo and distracted oden right before kaido Knocked out Oden?

[mint barn]

Yh 😔

[mossy egret]

Yus very sad moment tho but still like why would kaido remember it so distinctly isn't he like a character who dosent give a fk about anyone

[full cairn]

during oden execution, he mentioned he killed the old lady that interrupted the fight, so it pretty much indicated that he was pretty upset that the fight was interrupted

[mossy egret]

I think kaido had this pov because he won twice because of someone interrupting so mayb that's why he had the pov

[full cairn]

yeah pretty much

[quick hatch]

Dude. 💀 . How have you not noticed the significance of Oden in Kaidos past

[mossy egret]

chill dude I'm not a such a hardcore one piece fan chill vro

[quick hatch]

Sorry. Np.

[mossy egret]

I just had a few doubts just needed to clear them

[full cairn]

i would reread oden flashback again to get a good refresher 😛

[quick hatch]

Sorry

[mossy egret]

Yup yup

[mossy egret]

It's absolutely ok man chill dude

[storm shoal]

Next ep Kaido protect Luffy & kill CPO

And Kaido will kill himself cuz he can't live without Big Mama

[bold gull]

cynical dumb theory just for fun... don't get triggered... the straw hat is a mind controlling device left around by joy boy the previous user of hawkins df. forget about all the inherited will bs... it was brainwashing all along. the giant straw hat in mary geoise is the one joyboy used to take control of zunisha and make it walk around as a prank, then he forgot about it. the one luffy has make you just act like an idiot. at some point shanks realized it after wasting most of his life getting drunk in the middle of nowhere and getting bullied by anyone. shanks understood what was going on when he lost a freaking arm to save a stupid kid instead of killing that eel with a sneeze. a kid so dumb that will eventually die in a stupid way anyway. definitely not worthed an arm. so shanks got rid of the hat and run as far away as possible. literally. on the other side of the world.

[pine oasis]

Best theory out there

[mint barn]

I saw you were typing for a long time so i thought it was going to be a "good theory"

Damn Best theory.

[bold gull]

lol it was not

[smoky cradle]

Lmao

[grim delta]

Remember how kaido worships honorable deaths, I think that also plays a part on oden's impact on kaido. Maybe

[pure raven]

🤔

[odd lichen]

cp0 will win vs luffy no matter what happens. cp0 haki and skills are very strong and op

[shell kraken]

Btw I called kaido protecting Luffy from CP0 😉

It’s gonna happen next chapter

[flat remnant]

I didn't understand what CP0 did to stop Luffy during the fight

[quick hatch]

He grabbed his arm. Used tekkai to make it hard for luffy to move and lock him in place. And held him there for kaido to hit

[patent lantern]

Kaido about to go solo the whole world government

[split glacier]

And he's in his homicidal phase

[fading sierra]

Kaido new straw hat

[slender fulcrum]

Not straw hat, but there is a possibility that Kaido would join SH' grand fleet and submit to Luffy somehow. It'll be unprecedented in manga and will make Luffy's claim to pirate king stronger

Kaido values strength. His whole crew is based on this and people gains their places by overcoming those above them by pure strength

• this whole joyboy mentions that Kaido knows somehow

I think this is on the table. Luffy won't forgive him though and might refuse like the other one of his grand fleet

[split glacier]

What could Luffy's DF be since its seeming more likely it isn't just/at all rubber?

[twin herald]

Awakening incoming

He also has insanely good haki so there’s that

It’s honestly more of value than his DF

Haki main cake and DF is the frosting on top

[kind canopy]

kaido joining sh grand fleet would still require luffy to beat him first

[kind canopy]

so the fight continues on from here regardless, not sure if kaido weakens himself to even the playing field or not, but yeahhhh, i liked seeing this, but i'm still curious as to whether or not this means gear 5 without the 5 being there

[sinful helm]

im thinking next chapter is gonna see luffy awaken his df while being unconcious

its a buff but not the one that can still be used at all times as he wants

[flint sphinx]

i think next chapter is going to be CPO/Kaido talk fest

[kind canopy]

wait wait

[flint sphinx]

not sure if Luffy is waking up anytime soon

[kind canopy]

concerning g5/awakening, look at luffy during this fight, how he begins to lose air

it made me think, what if luffy accidentally brings about g5, by finding a perfect inbetween for the inflated muscles?

causing a different effect, maybe something more along the lines of using rubbers elasticity itself as the attack

[kind canopy]

i doubt it, oda wouldnt pick up the action and then let it drop off just like that, maybe whilst fighting. I think we're more likely to see kaido beat the everliving shit out of the CP0 member and promptly enter a flashback

[flint sphinx]

yeah I agree. I hope to see G5 or an awakening, but Oda likes to take his time.

[kind canopy]

tru

i somehow doubt luffy's really going to stay unconscious for a long time though, if he even is

[flat remnant]

thanks

[kind canopy]

if he is, what if he's able to meet zoro both being dangerously close to death? they wake up at the same exact time

[flint sphinx]

Luffy could be out of the fight for now, its not unlike Oda to do that, although he already did that with Zorro this fight, so I hope its not going to be the same with Luffy. I can also see Kaido killing the CPO guy and saving Luffy so he can fight him again later since he was having so much fun.

[warped mason]

Pretty sure Kaido slaps CP0 next chapter and lets Luffy recover or hurts himself. He wouldn't want another Oden fight again from what the last page was showing imo.

[split glacier]

Exactly, 2 of his biggest 1v1 battles have * next to them.

[flint sphinx]

yeah I think we can all agree on that, but how many chapters will that take 😅

[pure raven]

Yes he will. I suppose Lucci will become the new CP0 boss after Kaido kill him.

[ashen plaza]

Don't tell me Kaido would lose one of his horns vs Cp0?

It is important to note that ,Horns are important to dragons..eastern atleast

[split glacier]

That bum that struggled to handle Drake? If he isn't dead next chapter it's because Kaido fell asleep lol.

[ashen plaza]

I do hope that's what would happen. But cp0 might have a technology that counters Kaido,although this is unlikely

[warped mason]

Ya something special for sure. when I first read the initial brief spoiler I was pissed thinking that CP0 after struggling against Izou could possibly “distract” luffy.

[full bay]

Like seastone to counter the devil fruit

[muted ember]

The acts about to end with Luffy losing again

[pure raven]

🟢 MY SPECTRUM WAS CORRECT ✅
🟢 MY GIANT HYBRID WAS CORRECT ✅
🟡 AWAKENING???

Original: #manga-theories message

Reminder these numbers are not for an absolute measurement LMAO, it's just a relative comparison.

The "70%" hybrid appears again in this chapter.
BUT we also see the "90%" one I predicted.

I saw people saying this is just the beast form. Please see:

• how short the neck is
• how defined the neck structures are (instead of round)
• how defined the pecs are
• how there are scales on the pecs (like hybrid, unlike beast form)
• how there are abdominal muscles (like the obliques; instead of round)

- "Oh but it only shows for one panel..."
Kaidou has been changing forms for panels for a time now. This is not really a counter.

@sand sail
I am pinging you for two reasons

• spite, malecious acts 😈
• because you were sceptical of this theory, so you still might be, and you might have some argument to counter the new evidence that I didn't think about.

The scales are all one needs, but I decided to include the rest to be descriptive.

[vapid minnow]

Interesting theory, if you’re gonna go off with presenting multiple forms for Kaido then you should also include the multiple forms of Kaido being drunk. Currently they’re 7 and I’m gonna assume that we’ll have one more and that last drunk form will involve awakening

*first picture on top left is just showing him drinking

[pure raven]

nah the drunk forms =/= the zoan forms;
though one needs a drug (alcohol) to achieve different hybrids

the drunk forms are related to Kaidou's personality mostly, which then can or cannot translate to what Zoan form he uses.

the drunk mode that allows for future sight, for example, is pretty much good for that.

it's not a "thieving drunk", TCB is dumb, it's a "no longer tipsy drunk"

and in that mode he changes forms, showing the drunk modes don't have to be associated with the zoan forms

[vapid minnow]

yeah that’s called a secret drunk irl. They’re multiple types of drunks and Kaido has showcased almost each one (secret, happy, angry, sloppy, guilty, reckless, affectionate) the only one missing is blackout drunk

using Blackout drunk as the last one makes sense especially what just happened in this chapter. It’ll cause Kaido to likely lose all sense and that will transition into his awakening. I like how Oda set this up for Kaido, very apropos for his character

[pure raven]

https://onepiece-log.com/blog-entry-1698.html people been saying it

I also got another theory from this chapter

[vapid minnow]

yeah I know this guy, follow his pages for years. He’s good at analyzing stuff

[robust sky]

i did not understand a single thing 🥲

[pure raven]

---

THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE

Kaidou's first real cool appearance was when he jumped from a sky island, that was Ballon Terminal. This island is where lost balloons go to. The island itself, as you can see in chapter 795, is supported by the balloons, that's what makes the island float in the air.

Now, Kaidou will manage to get Onigashima above the Flower Capital and he'll remove the clouds. In the Flower Capital, the Wanese are preparing sky ships to release - the ones Toko has in 1042.

The flying ships from the Wano citizens will fly right when Kaidou releases his clouds above the Flower Capital, and the ships are carrying the people's biggest wishes. The one wish all the sky ships will have is to end Orochi/Kaidou's regime (or something along those lines).

LITERALLY, the wishes of the people of Wano will save this raid. They will save the capital, themselves, Onigashima, and all those who are fighting for their freedom.

All because the strength of their wishes - the sky ships - is greater than the weight of their enemies - Onigashima falling.

Momonosuke's dragon form should help as well. He'd be trying to lift Onigashima with little success. Then the sky ships with the wishes of his people arrive to help him keep the island in the air (similar to FMI). This is when Momonosuke remembers the people of Wano he's met, the reason for his strength.

Momonosuke lifting Onigashima with his hands (the feet on clouds) would mirror Oden's sacrifice to save the Scabbards. I expect this moment to mirror Oden's completely.

Yamato might also understand at that moment that Oden's successor is the real deal.

[dark palm]

yeah, was thinking this too

didn't remember that kaido jumped off a balloon terminal, cool

[pure raven]

it's where this is going for sure

the message you replied has no panels..
but yes, that is something that happens, what about it???

I think that's pretty explicit, he has future sight and can twist and turn

oh I see, you replied to the wrong message bruh.

I can see why one would think that thematically (he isn't actually using a copying technique), and it's a pun that goes both ways, but the word itself (not dividing its parts - that would be the pun) means a person who drinks without getting tipsy - this is why he can use future sight in this drunk mode

this is not theory but this ones.for sure

cp0 boss is deleted.

how can one actually incorporate both the pun and the meaning of the word into a translation is not really for this channel. But "absorbed drunk" maybe??? maybe using the word absorbed somehow, since it can mean both absorbing something and getting a full attention on something

[pure raven]

not for this channel bruv 😳 (kinda hypocritical of me lmao)

[dark palm]

this is also not true

[amber oar]

source, trust me bro

[covert tulip]

Sauce :- trust me bro

[ember nexus]

I wont survive no one piece for months

[vapid minnow]

who’s that guy next to Luffy? I’m not sure if that’s Oda

[ember nexus]

Ill have nothing
Solo leveling ended
Dr stone last chapter
Ill be so bored

[ember nexus]

True, who that?

[cyan berry]

an ice skater whose family name is Oda

[pure raven]

this seems to me like the current timeline

Kaidou vs CP0 dude (dead)
Kaidou leaves Luffy
Luffy will work for Kaidou, rebuild the castle, then they'll fight is what Kaidou thinks
Kaidou finally realises the island isn't moving
Kaidou vs Momonosuke
Onigashima above the capital, clouds released
Luffy calls for Kaidou
Kaidou vs Luffy continues
Momonosuke lifts the island
The sky ships from the people help him
Climax, Kaidou loses

[young sphinx]

John D ROCKerfeller

[primal cargo]

What's that about Luffy working for Kaido?

[pure raven]

Kaidou's plan - make him rebuild the castle for 5 years, then fight him again, instead of killing him now

this is the reason for Kaidou to remove himself from this fight until Luffy gets up

[dire flint]

I don’t think momo vs Kaido will happen cause Kaido can easily win.

He’ll probably notice onigashima isn’t moving and confront momo but not fight

[pure raven]

What if Kaido will commit Seppuku?

[timber basin]

he literally cant kill himself tho

[sweet inlet]

Luffys crew would never accept Luffy if he works for someone else even if he has a secret plan

[pure raven]

MY THEORY COLLECTION PT1

🔵 completely right
🟢 nigh totally right, small details off
🟡 partly right, still not all
🟠 not enough evidence, conflicting evidence
🔴 partly wrong, still not all
💀 completely wrong
multi-part theories may have multiple of the above
🚪 - no longer ongoing in any way

🟠 Luffy Awakening #manga-theories message

🟠 My version of Gear Red #manga-theories message

🟠 Kid's dream #manga-theories message

🟢 Kaidou spectrum 🟠 Awakening #manga-theories message
follow up #manga-theories message

🟡🟠🔴 Thriller Bark parallels #manga-theories message
🟠 BM's fate #manga-theories message

💀 Brook=reaper 🟠 Brook's Awakening #manga-theories message
+info SPOILERS CHANNEL #spoilers message

🟡🟠 Hiyori's plan+fruit, AnH+Orochi #manga-theories message
on Ame no Habakiri #manga-theories message
points it connects #manga-theories message

🟠 Momo lifts Onigashima with sky ships #manga-theories message

🟠 Kaidou+Orochi death #also-manga message

part 2 ||#manga-theories message||

[primal cargo]

Thinking of Kaido and Seppuku, I've noticed that back in Enies Lobby Kumadori had a gag where he would commit seppuku, and use Tekkai to resist the blade and survive. And he'd be like "I survived! Yoyoi!"
This is exactly what I propose Kaido does with his own suicide attempts in the BMKK theory. Instead of Tekkai it's Conqueror's haki, but the core idea remains that he "wants" to die but he will still do everything in his power to survive.
You could also tie that to Kaido vs Oden and now vs Luffy, presented with an opportunity to win in an unfair way, where he'd rather have a fair fight but he still takes advantage of that opportunity.

[twin widget]

im pretty sure he wanted to stop his attack against luffy but couldn’t

[deft dagger]

Yea its a very fast attack even for future sight to dodge

[primal cargo]

I don't personally buy that. Kaido the Emperor of the sea can't control his own movements ?
I think that scene is meant to be taken as proof that Kaido hasn't changed since Oden's time, in that regard.
But that's still a possibility of course , can't argue against that

[twin widget]

ye it could be either one, its just hard to stop an attack intended to kill right before it hits

especially if u gotta do an unexpected stop

[pine delta]

yeah he could probably see a flash of cp0 but then the emotions of what it meant for the fight + his pstd from oden win + he was mid attack to hit a fast moving target + hes in the middle of a adrenaline pumping fight means he cant just like stop mid swing

[fervent brook]

I think Luffy would be at verge of death or maybe die but Law will use his ability that revives someone for exchange of life or maybe makes them immortal and I also think 5 elders used same thing on themselves because they were old asf even when Garp and others were young

[drowsy gate]

Even Kaido is sus about Luffy's DF not being rubber

[pure raven]

https://animesenpai.net/one-piece-oda-hints-luffy-will-use-gear-5-to-defeat-kaido/

[tiny elm]

it’s a mythical zoan fs

[sinful helm]

its probably gonna be something like mythical zoan type monkey king

[stiff patrol]

Chapter 1041 just double checked this holy hell

[pure raven]

no they aren't

[cyan berry]

anyone who falls for this theory is a massive idiot

[pure raven]

oda told me

[cyan berry]

cant wait until G5 is an actual thing and all the people who fell for this garbage immediately go "yoooo yuderon was right! what a god"

[earnest steppe]

When gear 5 happens it won’t be because of that

[pure raven]

bcuz one zero four three

[dark charm]

What do you mean you were correct with that spectrum shiete, I cannot see any of it.

[sinful helm]

imagine if oda was trolling us all the time and there is no gear 5

[pure raven]

#manga-theories message

[sand sail]

That was barely correct at all, and not really the way you're saying there stoop

[pure raven]

it is

[sand sail]

Kaido has, so far, changed his face based on his mood as a drunk. That's not the same as him having a new spectrum of transformations, that's just him having a personality quirk lol

[fading sierra]

If there is a gear 5 wudnt it be some form of giant luffy cuz gear 2 is circulation ,gear 3 he literally goes expands his body parts and gear 4 he coats in haki to be structually intact and able to support a giant so gear 5 wud combine all those elements or nah idk

[pure raven]

did you read what I wrote?

[sand sail]

It is absolutely not, that's being extremely disingenuous

Yep

[pure raven]

then you think him having a dragon head is just a drunk quirk

and a neck that is totally new - striated like a dragon, with the human/hybrid features

[sand sail]

No, that's probably just a drawing mistake by Oda given that it was for exactly one panel, poorly shown and wasn't indicated as some other form ro anything

[pure raven]

lmao

[sand sail]

And both before and after he just has his typical full dragon form, which also leads to the question of why Kaido would use seemingly useless transformations

[pure raven]

you think this is a "drawing mistake"

[sand sail]

Yes, entirely

[pure raven]

then you're just denying the manga for a "meta mistake". I will just dismiss any of its validity

[sand sail]

That's fine, but your theory is in fact nowhere near confirmed there, so you should relist it

That's very disingenuous lol, it's close, it's not confirmed by any means at all, and you can't actually say these are for sure new forms and not Oda having fun

The latter being far, far more likely given the series we're talking about, and just the general tone of this battle at all

[pure raven]

the part of the spectrum is confirmed. you're bringing up "Oda didn't mean to have that in the manga" --> only if that becomes correct somewhere in the future the theory stops being confirmed

[sand sail]

You could even go as far as to say Kaido was just mid-transformation as he went down to Luffy and came back to a dragon for whatever reason, that also makes more sense

[sand sail]

Oh, it's not confirmed at all

[pure raven]

it is

[sand sail]

You're looking at what could be either drawing mistakes or just Oda having fun and assuming it, and that's okay as a theory, but we're not going to just sit here and call that "confirmed" when there's been literally no confirmation at all

[pure raven]

your argument is "what's in the manga might not be what's really in the manga", that's just not an argument

[sand sail]

No, my argument is "they haven't said so, let's not jump to conclusions"

[pure raven]

does it need to be said when Luffy punches Kaidou? It's visual

[sand sail]

You're stating this is completely confirmed, it absolutely is not in any way. The only thing confirmed is that Kaido gets drunk and makes funny faces, this is something we'd have to get from a vivre card I imagine

[vale current]

What do you think? ギアゴ written blurred lol

[pure raven]

"oh Oda might have made a mistake, Luffy is not punching Kaidou there, it isn't confirmed"

[sand sail]

You're giving Kaido a whole new set of transformations that don't seem to do anything for this fight and not even Luffy is talking about, all while assuming their qualities and assuming the notoriously inconsistent author that is Oda is doing this on purpose. This isn't the same thing at all, that's a bad argument

You're also jumping to the conclusion that you're right despite the fact that nothing's actually changed yet around these, we have no confirmation, we barely have a repeat showing that can be chalked up to Kaido's personality and not his fruit at all (something more consistent with the series than "he has more forms for no reason")

[pure raven]

I am saying there's a spectrum for how much "dragon" he can choose to put out - this is confirmed by the panels.

If Oda tells us "sorry guys, it's a mistake", I will change the color on the thing. Until then, it's green.

[sand sail]

You could be correct, don't get me wrong. It's just saying it's right is very clearly trying to give yourself the W preemptively

I am saying there's a spectrum for how much "dragon" he can choose to put out - this is confirmed by the panels.

[pure raven]

"Kaidou wasn't punched, Oda made a mistake" all over again

[sand sail]

Yeh see that's the thing, it really isn't yet. All we know so far is Kaido gets rowdy and makes dumb faces when he drinks and fights, not that he's doing anything more than that so far, nor that these things matter

[sand sail]

I cannot stress enough how much these are not the same argument at all

[sinful helm]

idk i see kaido's drunken stages as his fighting style like in real life there is a drunken style etc

[sand sail]

I just saw this too You really fucked up trying to reach out and claim a win on this one, lmao. You're kinda close but not really, but nah, you'll need some further explanation to this

This is easily going to be something Oda talks about in extra material just 'cause it's Kaido's new gag and people will want to know

[pure raven]

they are, we have visual confirmation, you're choosing to say it MIGHT be a mistake. That's a meta argument that is not relevant - "oh Zoro might not have blood coming out of his shoulder, it might be a mistake", this is only relevant AFTER it's revealed to be a mistake.

"Mistakes" are irrelevant before they are revealed as mistakes, or else anything can be a "mistake"

[sand sail]

If your theory comes down to "Kaido looks funny sometimes", cool. If you're saying he actually has some tangible amount of dragon he's letting out for whatever reason, that barely makes sense, but it's not a bad theory. To say it's all confirmed, slow down lmao

[pure raven]

yeah I was hoping you had an actual argument, yet you went into a meta irrelevant argument

[sand sail]

That's not how it works at all It's not a mistake if it's perfectly consistent with the series, or we see a palpable effect from it happening

This theory of Kaido transforming, this most definitely doesn't fall in with either of those things yet

[pure raven]

no, it's not a mistake because you want it to be - it's only a mistake if Oda tells us it's a mistake.

[sand sail]

Your only argument is they look strange so it must mean something, even though there's been no meaning placed on the series. There's no real way to argue against this because there's no real way for you to be right yet lol

If we get through the whole arc and no one ever talks about these things, it's a safe assumption you were wrong. Or, you could assume you were right, and there's nothing anyone can really say except "But why didn't anyone talk about it". That doesn't validate the theory

[pure raven]

we can't just say "it's a mistake" for no reason, when it isn't against the reality of the series, like Nami having two left hands would be.

you're just trying to go into a meta reason that is irrelevant before it's said to be a mistake

[sand sail]

Sure, but until he tells us it's not and given the context and complete lack of really any indication except Kaido being drunk that anything is happening, it's jumping to a conclusion to say it's not

[sand sail]

Oh there's plenty of reason, not least of which being the aforementioned lack of anyone going "oh that's weird", or Luffy talking about how these are weird new transformations, or about how Kaido's powers are changing or anything, or the fact that every other panel except a select few have him perfectly fine

Is there reason in the series directly, as in someone speaking against it? Of course not, just like there's none for anyone speaking for it, which is why this will only ever be jumping to a conclusion and not a confirmation lol

[pure raven]

those just help the reader see the differences. The differences are ON PANEL either way

[sand sail]

That's not a strength of the theory That's a major weakness

[sand sail]

They confirm the differences

[pure raven]

I will go with what the manga has over the probability of something being a meta mistake

[sand sail]

That's the point here, what your theory is actually missing to be confirmed "completely right"

[sand sail]

But you're not is the problem, you're still jumping to a conclusion

I wouldn't mind, but you called me out for it, so naturally you're not getting away with that

[pure raven]

it is completely right unless Oda made a mistake - which is irrelevant to think about until he points to it being a mistake, because then almost anything can be a mistake

[pure raven]

nah I wanted your arguments, hoping there was one