manga-theories

[junior cape]

The main problem is, as always, Kaido. He's fighting Luffy and Yamato, sure, but Onigashima is right over the mainland, and he could drop it at anytime. Sure, he won't do it while they're fighting, but he fully intends to drop it as soon as he is over the capital.

This is where Momo is critical. As the literal only other dragon in the world, he has to stop the island from falling, and that's gonna be a tall ask for a 8yo-turned-28 dragon-man.

But he doesn't have a choice. After all is said and done, he may drop it somewhere in the ocean, or perhaps in Kuri.

[lapis prairie]

Dumb theory- Momo will, in some way, have to dance (or have it appear that he’s dancing) to keep the island from crashing down. In that way he will mimic his father.

[light onyx]

The oden wouldn’t be oden dance ?

[lapis prairie]

Was it called the Oden?

Just seems fitting, since that’s the place Oden danced

[light onyx]

Idek tbh

[boreal gate]

Like to distract the people. So that they are not afraid but rather amused by thinking that it is part of the festival

[lapis prairie]

I don’t know why, really, other than the symmetry. Oda could have had Oden do anything silly, but he had Oden dance in the flower capital.

Dancing dragons is a trope

[boreal gate]

So 1026 chapter name is "Tennōzan". The name originates from a shrine on the mountain dedicated to Gozutennō.

Gozu Tennō (牛頭天王, lit. "Ox-Headed Heavenly King") is a syncretic Japanese deity of disease and healing.

He was regarded since the Heian period both as a causer of and protector against epidemics and eventually became amalgamated with the native kami Susanoo during the medieval and early modern periods.[1]

[junior cape]

damn oda just keeps going deeper and deeper with the deep lore

which could mean that, thematically, the blight of Wano is finally starting to lift.

Also because the chapter's name literally is "Turning point"

[modest skiff]

@boreal gate sorry if I am missing your point, what are you saying is the meaning in this context?

[boreal gate]

Nothing, I just found it interesting on why the chapter is named Tennozan and how it relates into the manga

Gozu Tennō was historically identified with a number of deities, foremost among these being Susanoo.

So we had to pick a character from the Manga to be the equivelant of Gozu Tenmo. Who would it be?

[junior cape]

Hiyori maybe

[boreal gate]

nvm, i remember what Kaido did

[junior cape]

yeah and Orochi is still alive

Wano isn't ready for change unless he's got a sword through the chest.

Kaido wasn't worthy or some shit

or maybe oda just has more deep lore for us to uncover

[lapis prairie]

Zoro has to kill a dragon, Orochi is a good fit

[boreal gate]

It's gotta be Zoro

[junior cape]

... Zoro has already killed a dragon, but I know what you mean

honestly i wanna see Orochi get turned into a donut

[bitter kraken]

Zoro has zero history with Orochi so I don’t think he’ll be the won to end him, it’s gotta be one of the scabs or momo sentencing him to death 💀

[amber oar]

Zoro bonded with Yasuie and was deeply affected by his execution, he also wants to kill Orochi

I don't think he will finish Orochi either, but it's not true that he has zero history with him

[proud tree]

does "the strongest crew in the world" mean Rocks Crew was stronger then Rogers Crew?

[grizzled fog]

Probably at the time yes

Roger pirates could’ve surpassed them later

[proud tree]

Roger was 39 years old at god valley.

Meaning he was way older then the Rocks Pirate crew, where Kaido was probably the youngest member at 21 years old, BM was 30and WB where 32 years old.

[pure raven]

If all those people are ruled out then our only suspect becomes doflamingo

• assassins at impel down

• knowledge of "national treasure"

• located in an area where news can't be reached

[tight marlin]

we didn't even see elbaf yet

and the onigashima war isn't even done

no way it's in 100 chapters

[amber oar]

Small correction -WB was 36, remember his age of death was pre timeskip.

[boreal gate]

Yeah, 100 chapters feels too soon

[teal stirrup]

I wouldn't agree to this because of the fact that they already have him in captive, so if they kill him there, it wouldn't make a difference.

If you want to remove him from history, the world would still know he's behind bars, and they would also think he's gonna stay there till he died.

For the WG to remove someone from history, they would do this to someone who is still out in public, and when they kidnap/kill this person, they wouldn't allow this incident to be reported for people to remember in history.

It would just be done without the knowledge of the public, on top of the existence of this person being removed from history through the deletion of any records that can be made available to the public sphere.

[boreal gate]

I think it just means that they capture or kill someone and no one ever talks about it anymore

then in the future that person or ideas are forgotten

"We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail. He can be caught, he can be killed and forgotten, but 400 years later, an idea can still change the world."

Also, you can take the concept of "Übermensch".

There are two types. One type is a person that can't be forgotten because his ideas and actions were so strong that is still remembered in the future. And the other type is a strong person but was forgotten when he/she died (Physically)

So when Im and the elders say "Who has to be erased" I think this refers more to the action of killing or capturing the person and then a philosophical of what I just mentioned. More than a mystical power that erases people's memories.

A reason no one knows about the void century is because the world government or whoever is behind controlled the population.

[pure raven]

do you think it's a character we're already aware of or someone yet to be revealed? Because whoever this person that needs to be erased may be is someone who's as threatening to the WG as BB, Luffy, and Dragon.
Given the sudden call to action of things, I think this person is a threat recently came to the attention.

[boreal gate]

Remember they killed everyone and destroyed Ohara when they learned about the void century.

[pure raven]

yeah

[boreal gate]

So the world government as long as they can control a king, a leader, etc, they are ok with it, because that character is gonna follow whatever they say

If that person does not do as they say, then they just simply kill or capture that individual.

That also can be referred to the conversation Im had with the elders.

Once again I don't think it's about a mystical power or something.

[pure raven]

yeah given this context what your saying would align with this and would have more to do with the side the majority of the nations chooses to alley with

[boreal gate]

There's a movie (trilogy) called "Zeitgeist", it's about who's behind the world control. It might give you more perspectives on what the world government in One Piece might represent.

[boreal gate]

Exactly, their ideas or beliefs remained, because if they did not follow orders they would be destroyed

[teal stirrup]

Here are some possible individuals/group of individuals that I think would be that "another light" :

1. Skypieans/Shandians
2. Fishmen/Merfolks
3. Non-strawhat dear to Luffy
4. Robin
5. The Kozuki Family

[boreal gate]

I vote for Robin

Since she's about the only person that can read ponegliffs

[teal stirrup]

---

I based these possibilities based on these 2 reasons :

1. Ability to preserve history of Void Century
2. Assisting the D's

[boreal gate]

I remember that "thanks to the 3 powers the world keeps its balance", Shichibukai, marines and yonkos

Then Fujitora said something like that Shichibukai are no longer needed to keep the balance? And eventually the marine went to capture the warlords

So if supposedly the 3 powers are needed to keep the balance, so they want to destroy that balance and then the yonkos to have full control?

[pure raven]

More like they think wg has full control

[boreal gate]

So, basically that's why there's gonna be a great war, the winner takes control of the world

They are just trying to lower pirate numbers as much as possible before that

I wanna buy all box sets T_T

[pure raven]

it feels weird for the government to go after the Skypieans/shandians when they've have had no relevance to the blue seas for over 400 years. Not sure if the marines have ever even taken a trip there.

fishmen, I think it's possible given how vulnerable they are now without the protection of Yonko, and it's not like luffy can be present to protect them.

robin is weird one to me because there's many other people around the world who know can interpret what happened in the Void Century like Rayleigh. I don't think it's really consistent with Oda's writing to go down that road again, so it's really unlikely but that doesn't mean we won't see a assassination attempt.

The Kozuki family is probably possible too because they're the ones who made the Poneglyphs and have been continuously been traveling through time, so killing one of them to ensure they can't escape to the future would be plausible.

It's weird to me how Ohara records were completely wiped out from history just because they could perceive the history but Rogers records wasn't even though he caused a more threatening effect to the WG.

but than again I guess he didn't reveal anything about the ancient kingdom at loge twon or else it might of been buster called

[teal stirrup]

It's not exactly weird for the WG to do something out of the ordinary. We do know both Skypieans/Shandians and Fishmen are involved in the keeping of the Poneglyphs, which the WG began to suspect of Fishmen. So I can see it as a possibility for the WG to remove them or someone there from History which is secretly indirectly threatening them. Most of us thought the Skypiea arc were like a filler when it turned out to be the most relevant arc to the entire series so who knows? I'd personally like to keep my cards open on this.

And I really do think, if anything, Robin has become more of a threat than before as she's the key to not only helping the Strawhats fight the battles but to also understand the Void Century. So as long as she's there, the more likely the Strawhats will get closer to the truth or even the ancient weapons. And her removal, would be a devastating blow to the Strawhats morals which would benefit the WG.

But Yea.

[hasty lichen]

Ohara got caught actively looking for/reading poneglyphs. Which results in death anyways, but they knew too much, so needed to be wiped from existence.

Also a lot of Navy probably knew Roger and his demeanor, so weren’t worried about history leaks. And Roger turned himself in.

And sorry. No idea where this convo started. Just commenting that one thing

[hasty lichen]

WG is supposed to have something better than Pacifisitas to replace the Shichibukai. So now that they are just Pirates. They’re wanted again

[pure raven]

Oh I understand that reasoning but than again wouldn't the same be true about Alabasta Kingdom? If harboring Poneglyphs is the reason for wiping eliminating individuals/group of people, wouldn't it be more grand? Because looking back at the conversation with the Gorosei again, it appears to be something that's predetermined and planned ahead of time. I think if harboring Poneglyphs was a big enough crime to "extinguish from history" there would be more consistent genocides going around. Ohara was only completely destroyed because they showed they that they knew some truths to history of the void.

With robin she can interpret it as well and have been hunted for over 20+ years, however she's always been a target anyways. But to me it doesn't make sense to target her when you have characters like Rayleigh who know full well the history of the void while robin doesn't. He was even open to sharing the history, so if they're scared robin would do the same thing one day, wouldn't it make more consistent to target people who already know the truth? Unless you can say the WG wasn't aware that the Roger crew knows the history of the void?

Most of us thought the Skypiea arc were like a filler when it turned out to be the most relevant arc to the entire series so who knows? I'd personally like to keep my cards open on this.

I feel like the whole skypeia stuff is only becoming relevant now because of the "Done Piece Theory" and sun God nika because his silhouette looks like a Shandian, but that feels more like a refrence to Joyboy than anything and that arc is already pretty much over. They've threw out the tyrannical "God" enel and stopped a war that's been going on for 400 years. Everyone there also seems to be clueless about the Poneglyphs all they know is to protect it. I think if there was someone of interest there Oda would of probably revealed way sooner. I also don't even think that the WG is aware that they have a Poneglyph in their possession

[gleaming crest]

you also have the birka connection with the moon and enel

[real swan]

Also the major hints of them being an ally of the ancient kingdom

[teal stirrup]

I don't think having poneglyphs on the Island would necessarily cause the WG to attack you but it can be that the Skypieans/Shandians have other things that contribute to the threat thus I said "or someone there from History which is secretly indirectly threatening them".

Rayleigh isn't exactly fighting alongside the Strawhats despite training Luffy, while he's just staying at the bar island. And he isn't exposing to the public about the information on Void Century whereas for Ohara, they seem as if they wish to uncover it and spread it to the whole world. Afterall, fighting Rayleigh would be an unecessary risk as mentioned in the manga.

---

But these are just possibilities to consider.

[pure raven]

I see.......

[real swan]

Random thought, but based on the enel cover story, would it be right to assume haki is only known in the one piece planet, since the space pirates didn't know how to deal with enel? Do you think haki is something even aliens could use?

[gleaming crest]

I would think so considering you can train for it

[real swan]

Yea, not sure why I really was wondering about it but I'm thinking about setting specific stuff existing on other worlds, like we also didn't see any devil fruit users among the space pirates.

[grizzled fog]

Probably can’t assume that from them no. For starters the space pirates may have come from earth in the first place, and it’s not like everyone knows haki.

[real swan]

Very true, can't really assume that much when not even everyone on earth knows it. Not sure why but it makes me think about haki origins. Like you think people just figured it out...or was it a necessity born from the need to counter devil fruits? Was it around during the void century times? Just questions I think about a lot

[void monolith]

I’m thinking maybe killer and hawking fight stalls long enough to where hawkins’ cards start to change and he realizes being with kaido isn’t the safest option

[pure raven]

Both Shikki and Kaido are Rocks Pirates. Do you guys think Luffy will brought Kaido down along with Onigashima like he did with Shikki?

[foggy sand]

strong world isn't cannon

[pure raven]

I didnt ask if its canon or not.

[velvet linden]

Would be a fucking crazy scene

I do feel though like Kaido will survive to see Luffy achieve his goal

[pure raven]

I personally wouldnt like it very much but I wouldnt mind it. The only reason why I brought up the two attacks is because of the fact that ODA tends to foreshadow Luffy's future attacks from the previous movies. And since Shikki is the same crew as Kaido, I thought to myself is its possible for ODA to do a similar finishing attack. lol

[velvet linden]

For the Kaido part I feel this way because Kaido dream is to die in a bold way, I feel if he’s killed in his battle with Luffy he gets what he wants.

Regarding Oda foreshadowing future attacks, I haven’t watched any of the movies but which attacks did Oda foreshadow? Just curious

[pure raven]

Remember 2nd gear?

Most people thought he activate it the first time in the anime, but he already did in the movie prior.

[velvet linden]

Was the movie made before he activated it in the Manga though?

Cause anime usually releases about a few months to a year after the manga

[pure raven]

Its crazy I know.

Oda is basically telling us "You people wanna know what attack Luffy is gonna do? Go watch the movies."

[velvet linden]

Yo haha that’s amazing I never knew this. I gotta watch the movies now that I’m caught up

[pure raven]

Im honestly reall lazy but I might go watch a couple just to see what moves Luffy made. Lol. But yea!

Has anyone read this 💀

https://thrillerbark.com/threads/the-romance-of-fantasy-the-grand-monet-theory.1481/

---

[hot void]

50000 words
bruh

(I started reading it)

[supple anchor]

same lol, but there is way too much

[mint prairie]

I'll read it over time. I'm not fond of theories, but I like reading. I'll drop a word of two when I'm done.

[foggy sand]

the chapter where he first used gear 2 came out in 2005, the movie came out in 2006

[junior cape]

I think Kaido will literally fall into the sea after losing to luffy. Oda doesnt like drawing his protagonists killing people.

Fall out of the sky, that is

Or maybe hell be crushed to death by his own island

[light onyx]

Tldr pls I beg

[pastel wasp]

When do u think the wano arc will end in the manga.. like how many more chapters

[tidal tangle]

including post wano ?

or just the raid

[pastel wasp]

I meant how many more chapters is there to come before the wano arc ends in the manga

[supple anchor]

at least one more

[stiff patrol]

Probally at least another 10

Then there will be post wano chapters to wrap up, so in total bout 15

[pastel wasp]

O

[errant oxide]

Bruh 10…?

[gleaming crest]

I really wanna see what happened during the Kuma rescue post wano

[snow grove]

i think if kaido was defeated by luffy both sides will line up against bigmom

oroshi will join kidd and law vs bigmom

[pure raven]

Yea I think I must have been mistaken. The one that I can find is when Luffy punched Baron Omatsuri in movie 6 when it was released in 2005, and the other exact similar attack animation used for when Luffy punched Celestial Dragon in episode 396 which was in 2009.

https://youtu.be/EMIEYdjIJhQ

https://youtu.be/8ot2QJuJNxI

[pure raven]

And also these two where Luffy attacks from the sky to hit Shikki to the ground, and in the anime years later, Luffy attack from the sky as well to hit Kaido to the ground.

https://youtu.be/sUS1fJgTeJU

https://youtu.be/VOggm6Sou78

[rustic granite]

Imo if Momo somehow fails to Stop Onigashima from falling,Luffy will somehow unlock Awakening to prevent Onigashima from destroying Flower Capital

[harsh niche]

i think luffy will punch momo in the fucking face again

[pure raven]

And interestingly enough, in the movie where Luffy fought Shikki, there are full of animal species references and in Wano where Luffy fought Kaido, there's full of animal species references as well.

Especially the pink sakura trees.

[pure raven]

And thirdly, Shikki's flying Island reminds us of Kaido's flying Onigashima :

[pine delta]

Not gonna lie that’s kinda a reach. They’re both just floating islands that’s the only similarity

[pure raven]

And last but not list, the part where the two dragons on Shikkis palace walls reminda us of Kaido and Momo in DRAGON FORMS:

But yea, it's just a "similarity" anyways. 🤷‍♂️ Right PhilConifer? 🤣

[carmine shoal]

LMFAO

[pine delta]

I think this is kinda a reach. A lot of art and background art like that is probably just coincidental

Like all these training and power ups and then luffy goes FE ET

[hollow grotto]

The contents of the movie aren't canon. I agree that there are some similarities, but don't undermine others' opinion just because it differs from yours ^^

Chapter 0 is canon, but anything seen in the movie can't be considered in the same way

also, that scene of Zoro fighting a tiger in Wano is anime filler

[fathom matrix]

I think Shiki will return and make his manga debut, but obviously it'll be a different shiki to the one we got in the movie.

I think he'll show up in flashbacks but he's not present or active currently in the story.

He could be dead or retired

[hollow grotto]

Luffy has hit enemies from the sky a lot of times before this too, including Doflamingo, which is closer to the time that this movie was released than the Kaido vs Luffy scene.

[pure raven]

I think this is ODA's way of saying, "despite the movie not being canon, I've given you some details that will occur in Wano. Kaido's island will fly like Shikki's, Kaido being from Rocks Pirates like Shikki, there being multiple animal species references in Wano like the one on Shikki's, the palace being traditional like, like Shikki's palace, Luffy using similar attack from the sky against Kaido like he did to Shikki, and there being two dragons that will appear in Wano like the two dragons on Shikki's palace wall."

But this is just my opinion. 💁‍♂️ Take it as you will. ^_^

[fathom matrix]

I think it's also cause a lot of mythology and such has 2 dragons together or against on another. Like there's something about the duality of 2 opposing reptiles (fish in this case) fighting one another

[hollow grotto]

And that's fair, people just often try way too hard to connect things together because they have some vague connections to one another. Downplaying other people for their opinion is just rude when you're trying to convince others of something that has no evidence beyond filler and movies, which are not canon. Though it's algood, we can agree to disagree

[pure raven]

I cant wait for that man. I hope its gonna be surprising and unexpected.

[pure raven]

No worries. I got you 🤙

[hollow grotto]

I used to believe Shiki would be the true man behind the SMILE fruits, that he created them all, and that he was the Lurking Legend. I even posted a video about it on YouTube which I've now since privated.. my opinions on that have changed a lot.

[fathom matrix]

I think shiki inspired teach. I think like how shanks inspire luffy, teach got inspired by shiki, but shiki actually told him a lot more and gave him a plan

[hollow grotto]

I believed he'd come to Wano, be connected and all to everything, but unfortunately I just can't see it anymore. I'd love to be proven wrong, though I doubt it now

[pure raven]

Anyway guys, ever since 1026 has been released, it feels so different now. If 20 years ago, my younger self reacted to this, it would have been more hyped than Marineford. Lol

[hollow grotto]

Wano is pretty great, that's true

there've been a few small issues with it but I'm pretty happy overall with modern-day OP

[pure raven]

Absolutely man. People are gonna go insane when the anime comes out....especially Uzumakhi Kan. 🤣🤣

[pure raven]

Yo Imma screenshot this cause this is really interesting.

[shrewd dune]

guysss

can we discuss spoilers here

[night jewel]

I assume you are talking about chapter 1026 then yeah you can discuss it here, if the chapter is in #announcements already that means you can discuss it in the manga channels

next chapter leaks ofc arent allowed here, those go to #spoilers

[pure raven]

Go all out man! 🤙🤙💯💯

[ancient vault]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/164971940648321024/848654780973056031/ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif

[static spade]

so with orochi still beeing around i feel like momo is getting his own little fight now huh?

[teal nymph]

i fell like orochi still being alive makes kin's death almost pointless as he couldn't really accomplish his primary objective .

[acoustic helm]

Man that's not a dragon

[pure raven]

Not even 1% the appearance of a Dragon?

[clever lintel]

How do you guys think the Kurozumi plot will be resolved? Tama being a kurozumi seems to be the popular idea, but something about it seems too clean.

[torpid oyster]

[acoustic helm]

That's not how foreshadowing works

[pure raven]

Since you chose to avoid responding to the question, I'll kindly avoid responding to you after this comment.

You have a nice day man!

[ancient vault]

Stop fcking reaching with ur dumbass 1% dragon
Its not a dragon. Period. You dont call a human a tiger just cause he also has eyes and a tongue.
All you do in here is post stupid ass headcanon with weak to no evidence and start making shit up

[night jewel]

while that is very clearly not a dragon, you don't need to start insulting the guy to make him realize that 🙂

[sleek oracle]

Well, it was homage animators.

The movie inspired the animator for the punch on the celestial dragon.

[pure raven]

Wise as always. 🤙

[ancient vault]

Buddy got warned often enough

[night jewel]

yea that one is a dragon, the other is a tiger, its a tiger v dragon painting

[pure raven]

And how many forefeet toes does a tiger have, again?

[winged stirrup]

You rly have a point I like it

[pure raven]

😊 glad to hear that!

[winged stirrup]

But how the fxck do u notice something like that

[night jewel]

we are seeing the tiger from an angle where only 4 are seen lol, thats the issue

for example in this one, the tiger might have a 5th toe, but the angle is hiding it

@dry kindle not the channel to post memes, post it in #memes with spoiler tags or in manga channels

[dry kindle]

Well tiger is only animal left from island where he trained beside tiger he named his every form and attack after animals in Island he trained

• as per Chinese mythology Dragon's are defeated by Tiger
  If oda goes on that mythology then
  Tiger man is a possibility

[dry kindle]

Sure thanks for info

[night jewel]

np

[night jewel]

yes i am aware of that lol

[pure raven]

Im just that bored I guess

[pure raven]

I was suppose to reply to Magpie sorry Arsal. 🤣🤣

[night jewel]

see another example i posted, its the angle hiding its fifth toe

no worries

[winged stirrup]

Oof

[pure raven]

A tiger has FIVE toes on its forefeet not four. There's no hiding anything.

what do ya'll think dragons fruit is

I think weather or wind

[pure raven]

I agree too man. Based on his appearances, I also think its relating to wind or weather controlling.

and the fact that the revolutionary base hasn't been found by the wg

Also what is the guardian deity thing about

[pure raven]

And besides, the claws of tigers look different than a dragon's. Lol

[ancient vault]

What even is the point of argueing this???
its a movie
Theres better foreshadowing for momo dragon vs kaido dragon IN THE MANGA

[winged stirrup]

Pls post them

[queen spindle]

You can find on chapter 310. finally get the link youtube. Cant post the image https://youtu.be/yzqkA1bQHZ0

[pure raven]

its a rick roll

[stiff patrol]

It’s not

[pure raven]

its a joke

[pure raven]

Tail looks weird for a dragon on the one you highlighted for momo

[smoky belfry]

what if.........................

[pure raven]

Unless you were to argue it's a western dragon, in which case momo clearly isn't

[smoky belfry]

luffy beats kaido and big mom at wano heads to free sabo rescues sabo proceed towards shanks , shanks asks him to help him beat teach they unite with the revolutionary army and proceed to beat teach after the fight teach is imprisoned and unfortunately shanks dies leaving luffy to be pirate king

also the amazon lily squad unite

[hexed vapor]

in chapter 1026 does the person who saw jack losing was orochi?

[pure raven]

Too cliche

[smoky belfry]

i havent read the new ones

[faint aspen]

Do we have any info about joy boy’s promise to fish man island ??

[smoky belfry]

just thought thoo....... it all depends on oda :)

[smoky belfry]

not tht i know oof

[hexed vapor]

no

[smoky belfry]

why so dead chatt

[modest skiff]

This is intended as only for serious discussion, not random topics. This chat doesn't "die" because it isn't supposed to be idle conversation like #manga and #also-manga . Read the channel description

[pure raven]

over explained

[reef elm]

literally unwatchable

[supple ivy]

opinions on luffy becoming as big as joyboy ?

[pure raven]

What do you guys think about Ohara video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MsDUzyJqVQ

Think they made a lot of good points that are worth looking into like Kurhea and Sugar points. All though the inversion facts are cherry picked to support their theory, I think Oda is pretty consistent when it comes to them. After reviewing this comment it introduced a new way to approach theorizing. Now when I look closely at the story there's a lot of elements that are the opposite of each other like

• Blackbeard & Luffy
• Noland & Roger
• Tashgi & Kuina

[pure raven]

bigger

[supple ivy]

yh it would be nice to see luffy becoming that big ! as he's a midget right now !! xD WOULDNT it be lovely to see luffy as big as kaido

[pure raven]

said to be 4 meters, but I didn't mean luffy being bigger in the literal sense in the original comment lol

[fathom matrix]

I wonder if Luffy will develop a new gear 4th varient and it'll be tiger man, to fight against kaido.

plus, he could also base it off luchador wrestler.

It could be an interesting form where it's speed base like snake man, but it's hardened and tense around the joints so much, the he loses his long distance stretch attacks, but the power and puncture of his strikes are a lot more devestating up close.

[pure raven]

apart from tankman i think snakeman and bounceman where planned by luffy

[fathom matrix]

Tankman COULD have been a made up one on the spot and he's like "ok this is the stuffed version, but I need to work on a normal version after this".

Or maybe he did plan it back in the timeskip, but he considers it a VERY situational gear varient

[sinful wedge]

After King kicked BM down the waterfall, how did she wash up ashore Kuri? The waterfall doesn't have an upstream current

[quaint dove]

She fell into the water after slipping off a Koi, the ship fell off the waterfall but she didn’t

[modest skiff]

I think it’s possible that Luffy had picked up on the fact that Kaido getting punched may only go so far. Would be interesting if Luffy found a way to give himself sharp claws. Not sure I like it thematically but it could maybe be cool. I still prefer the Doffy route where he just has a bigger and more intense punch that does the trick. The finisher he used vs Doffy with Cocting sounds reasonable. But I think something much cooler will happen because Oda is Goda

[pure raven]

YUDERON THEORIES

Imu national treasure

• inversion of Fishmen island national treasure of drugs that grant more power in exchange for a shorter lifespan.
  Conclusion = the national treasure in mary geoise extends life span in exchange for less power

Imu back story

• inversion of Robin back story, she was referred to as Devil's child and despised by everyone, also is a reference and possibly inspired after the story of Kaguya.
  Conclusion = Imu was loved and praised, perhaps even be regarded as God's child

Immortality
Eve tree is an inversion of the the poisonous trees that were cut in nolands backstory when he visited the city shandians.
Conclusion = Eve is a tree that gives life and extends life. If it were to be cut down, given all the references of cutting down trees like Giant jack and the tree of knowledge. If the Eve tree were to be taken down it would take away the life supporting it in fishmen island and mary geoise.

Imu Identity

• inversion of the straw hat skull, if you flip it upside down you get a 3 eyed elongated head
• inversion of enel the fake god without wings
  conclusion = Imu is a long female with 3 eyes, that's a real "God" with possible wings

History erased
Has it ever occurred to you that every time something to do with forgetting snow is involved?

• drum island Hiriluk last words "A man only dies when he's forgotten"
• ash falling like snow in memory of the going memory
• Punkhazard an island forgotten by the world filled with the memory of Vegapunk
• ringo region in wano filled with the memory of zoro and Hiyori
• Pudding erasing Sanji memory while it snows cotton candy
  Conclusion = Imu manipulated the world's memories through covering the entire sky in white(possibly snow) than using that reflection with light to erase people's memory like in the Kaguya story.

Imu Devil Fruit

• Crocodile is an inversion of Imu in regards to his weakness, concluding that water is Imu strength
• Imu name back words is umi which means water in Japanese
• imu is a reference to a bird like characteristic: this is concluded from observing the way robin uses her devil fruit powers, Mihawk name "Hawk Eyes", Doflamingo ect.)
  Conclusion - So following these three themes bird, water, and three eye we come to the conclusion that Imu has the mythical water fruit. The human human fruit model Apsas the Celestial water nymph

@modest skiff @dusky acorn @waxen dust @ancient vault @sand sail not sure if you guys seen the "The BEST One Piece Theory, but better" video but I summarized the key points and claims. What are you guys thoughts on the theories ?

need some expert opinions

@teal stirrup @hollow grotto@weak arrow

[spice berry]

Two sides of the same coin lol

[pure raven]

yeah........

[ancient vault]

This feels a lot better in terms of reading experience without the constant numerology bs

Good summary

[dusky acorn]

Thank you for summarising all the points. I saw that it was quite a long video so I haven't gotten around to watching it just yet. This helps a lot.

Conclusion = the national treasure in mary geoise extends life span in exchange for less power/__Immortality __
I assume this conclusion was reached on the basis of Dofalmingo's quotes in Impel Down? The fact that he references the treasure to hold a power that supposedly has a short shelf life, and goes bad quickly. In that case, I see there's some merit behind this idea. It's one possibility that fits Doffy's thinking. The peak of the eve tree being the source of this supposed treasure is fine.

However, I wonder how the eternal youth of the Ope-Ope relates to this? Why would the combination of these two things be so devastating together is my concern. They sort of accomplish the same basic premise-- extending a person's life. The only thing I can think of is perhaps being a post-eternal youth subject somehow makes it so that the drawback of losing power by in-taking the treasure is nullified. That would mean Imu at least, if they're a subject of the operation hasn't been getting any weaker, but the Gorosei or whoever may be taking it has.

Imu back story
I'm not sure what lead the theorist to go for drawing an inverted comparison to Robin, so again I'll have to watch the video. But yes, it's always been very possible that Imu originally came from some kind of high standing. They logically had some sort of head-start in life to get to where he is now on the pinnacle of the world.

Imu Identity
Imu being female has always been an unruled possibility, despite the majority seeming to favour the other gender for them. I don't quite understand what would be the significance behind making Imu a three-eye. But sure, seeing a full fledged three-eye with an actual awakened eye almost feels like a pseudo Chekhov's Gun to me. All I can say is it'd be cool if we finally see one, and Imu can be made to be one to fill in that minor unexplored aspect of the series.

History erased
Conclusion = Imu manipulated the world's memories through covering the entire sky in white(possibly snow) than using that reflection with light to erase people's memory like in the Kaguya story.
I don't believe seeking out all those snow/memory comparisons in hopes of serving as extra evidence were really needed. A general hypothesis such as this where Imu/WG blanket erases specific memories from the world is neat enough for the magical kind or world OP is. It's like taking a shortcut to more feasibly explain how exactly no one remembers the contents of the void century. It further emphasises why things like ponegliffs were necessary. Indestructible blocks wouldn't be susceptible to a widespread memory wipe dedicated onto people. I wonder why certain things such as the Will of D. were remembered to be carried on, in spite of a blanket memory wipe such as this though?

Imu Devil Fruit

• Imu name back words is umi which means water in Japanese
  Yes, this is the one thing from this megatheory I've actually heard numerous times before. It's a nice idea. There was a time not too long ago where people didn't think Fish-Fish models of devil fruits were possible, and there are now some who still don't see the chance of a water fruit, but I can believe it. From the very little Oda has given of them, Imu seems like a very nature-oriented kind of person, with how they were loitering in their garden. It at least adds some sentiment of compatibility to them having a Logia fruit, as those are natural elements.

[modest skiff]

You’re a hero for summarizing the video because I generally can’t stand to listen to O’Hara. I’ll respond when I’m home.

[split hornet]

Do you guys think ogres and giants are linked

[silent dock]

can someone explain this to me?

[mint prairie]

I don't remember what this is.

[pure raven]

is that from chapter 1026? iirc it was the conq haki clash knocked them out

[silent dock]

yeah 1026, ok sweet thank you! that’s what i thought too but the cut down the middle threw me off

[sturdy hound]

That confused me at first two, thought it was just one person at first lol

[modest skiff]

• inversion of Fishmen island national treasure of drugs that grant more power in exchange for a shorter lifespan.
  Conclusion = the national treasure in mary geoise extends life span in exchange for less power

Totally baseless and doesn’t really come from anything, but it is a neat thought. Just don’t really see any reason to think inversion is a thing in this situation.

Imu back story

• inversion of Robin back story, she was referred to as Devil's child and despised by everyone, also is a reference and possibly inspired after the story of Kaguya.
  Conclusion = Imu was loved and praised, perhaps even be regarded as God's child

Totally baseless and doesn’t really come from anything, but it is a neat thought. Just don’t really see any reason to think inversion is a thing in this situation.

Immortality
Eve tree is an inversion of the the poisonous trees that were cut in nolands backstory when he visited the city shandians.
Conclusion = Eve is a tree that gives life and extends life. If it were to be cut down, given all the references of cutting down trees like Giant jack and the tree of knowledge. If the Eve tree were to be taken down it would take away the life supporting it in fishmen island and mary geoise.

I think it is possible that the tree does this in some way but I don’t think the CDs know how to use it. We have seen CDs age, so at the very least, they don’t have that capability yet. We know it would make fishmen suffer but it isn’t clear what it does with the CDs. I think the CD’s seized Marie Jois in part to secure the tree, but what that means is still a question mark to me.

Couple theories

1. The tree controls the sea level of the planet

2. The tree is the main tree of the planet and can be used to travel to other trees(planets)

3. The tree is the only means through which to reach the top layer of the sky lands where the AK escaped to

4. The tree is able to control the weather on the planet

Imu Identity

• inversion of the straw hat skull, if you flip it upside down you get a 3 eyed elongated head
• inversion of enel the fake god without wings
  conclusion = Imu is a long female with 3 eyes, that's a real "God" with possible wings

This whole inversion thing just feels silly. Especially this.

[modest skiff]

History erased

Has it ever occurred to you that every time something to do with forgetting snow is involved?

• drum island Hiriluk last words "A man only dies when he's forgotten"
• ash falling like snow in memory of the going memory
• Punkhazard an island forgotten by the world filled with the memory of Vegapunk
• ringo region in wano filled with the memory of zoro and Hiyori
• Pudding erasing Sanji memory while it snows cotton candy
  Conclusion = Imu manipulated the world's memories through covering the entire sky in white(possibly snow) than using that reflection with light to erase people's memory like in the Kaguya story.

I do think it is possible that Imu or someone else caused a mass amnesia event but I don’t have any basis for thinking that. I don’t know how Imu would have shown the Gorosei that they are powerful or deserved to be worshipped with a mass amnesia event. Perhaps Imu stole something and then did mass amnesia to make people not know how they got it, then used that power to subjugate the CDs. I have no idea.

The main thing that made me think there was a mass amnesia event is the glyphs. Whoever made the glyphs knew that there would be an effort to suppress information. The only question is through what means this information is being suppressed.

Imu Devil Fruit

• Crocodile is an inversion of Imu in regards to his weakness, concluding that water is Imu strength

This inversion stuff is dumb

• Imu name back words is umi which means water in Japanese
• imu is a reference to a bird like characteristic: this is concluded from observing the way robin uses her devil fruit powers, Mihawk name "Hawk Eyes", Doflamingo ect.)
  Conclusion - So following these three themes bird, water, and three eye we come to the conclusion that Imu has the mythical water fruit. The human human fruit model Apsas the Celestial water nymph

I have theorized Imu has the ability to control the water level of the planet, but unclear as to how. As I said above, I think either the tree or some other power does it, but maybe Imu has the power themselves. I can imagine Imu having a power like Pika where they can move into and through water and control it that way. That would make Marie Jois the only safe haven. Since we know that you can steal someone’s devil fruit, maybe BB found out about Imu stealing the leader of the AK’s devil fruit and then used that to steal fruits for his team.

[tawdry bramble]

The power is clearly going to be the most hax in the series. Maybe it’s access to all devil fruit powers but can only be used one at a time.

[bright sleet]

umm, who is the person in the image?

[silent dock]

it’s one of kaidos reporters, i think it’s the one who was making it possible for everyone to hear what was going on

[bright sleet]

but didnt she only had one of those "face covering clothes"?

[sturdy hound]

you can see here that it's 2 people

or might be one person with 2 heads or smth

[bright sleet]

Thanks @sturdy hound

[sturdy hound]

it is quite confusing tho, cant tell if those are 2 bodies on top of each of other or just one with two heads

[modest skiff]

yeah i have stared at that panel for like an hour and i have no idea what's going on

[pure raven]

he has a paper lamp he is carrying on his back with an eye paper as well

[sturdy hound]

Ahh, that would explain the box thing behind his back in the last panel

[pure raven]

if all marys that have the paper mask have somewhat connected eyesight it might just make it easier to see for them

[sturdy hound]

What’s the significance of the lamp tho

[modest skiff]

i even flipped my screen upside down and I still have zero idea what's going on. Whatever, I'll wait for the anime lol

[sturdy hound]

i have a feeling this fella has appeared before, so we might be able to find a panel showing him better

it def looks like he's carrying smth on his back tho

[pure raven]

im not good at drawing

@modest skiff

its either there just for asthetics or it helps the marys see their surroundings better

[sturdy hound]

Probably an aesthetic thing, might have some historical or cultural significance

I still wanna know who controls the eye power. It’s neither bao nor ww, yet bao seems to be the one that gets the signals and control the animal ones

My initial theory was that ww controls it bc he has the tattoo on his chest and that it’s some kind of Jutsu or such, but now that jutsus are explained as fruits, idk anymore

He also doesn’t seem to be able to see what the Marys see, just bao

[modest skiff]

This is better than I can draw, with a pen and paper. Thank you!

[pure raven]

i wouldnt put it past just being something queen created

if he messes around with viruses it means hes somewhat of a biologist and could have taken smail lineage factor and modified it

maybe bao huang is kind of like the boss smail from udon and all the marys are the recievers

[teal stirrup]

Conclusion = the national treasure in mary geoise extends life span in exchange for less power

Since they kidnap Bonnie, I'd assume they'd use her powers to extent one's life by giving them youth. And there's also the OP2 fruit which could grant another person eternal youth when/if the DF user dies. But this fruit is with Law, and not the WG which would explain the multiple capture of Bonnie. So if the national treasure is going to be something else which would produce similar effect(s) to live longer, that would kinda defeat the purpose of the former.

Conclusion = Imu was loved and praised, perhaps even be regarded as God's child

Children in general, are more often than not, loved and praised too so it wouldn't be surprising or new.

Immortality Eve tree is an inversion of the the poisonous trees that were cut in nolands backstory when he visited the city shandians. Conclusion = Eve is a tree that gives life and extends life. If it were to be cut down, given all the references of cutting down trees like Giant jack and the tree of knowledge. If the Eve tree were to be taken down it would take away the life supporting it in fishmen island and mary geoise.

If we were to assume that the national treasure is what helps extent life in the first conclusion above then this directly means Eve tree is that national treasure based from this conclusion. I wouldn't accept or reject this because it's not clear as to WHO would receive this. Does this apply to everyone or only a few specific people? Because we've only seen the Gorosei who looked the same 20 years later. Would this apply to Sengoku, Garp, Akainu, Kong, Fujitora or any other marines? Cause if this was the case, then this would be a huge news that would reach the entire world, and anyone who live in Mariejois would lived as long as the Gorosei as well. But does the world know of it?

[teal stirrup]

quote Conclusion = Imu is a long female with 3 eyes, that's a real "God" with possible wings.

Is that really a long head or is it just simply a long crown? Which of the two would fit the story better as the Supreme Ruler of the World? I hope its the latter. And if Imsama were to be born with wings, I'd expect for him/her to not walk alone to an underground chambers looking at a Giant Strawhat still hiding its wings.

History erased Has it ever occurred to you that every time something to do with forgetting snow is involved?- drum island Hiriluk last words "A man only dies when he's forgotten" - ash falling like snow in memory of the going memory -  Punkhazard an island forgotten by the world filled with the memory of Vegapunk - ringo region in wano filled with the memory of zoro and Hiyori- Pudding erasing Sanji memory while it snows cotton candy. Conclusion = Imu manipulated the world's memories  through covering the entire sky in white(possibly snow) than using that reflection with light to erase people's memory like in the Kaguya story.

If this was the case, woudnt IM had done it during the Void Century to the people of the Ancient Kingdom before they could even create the Poneglyphs? So I don't really see erasing memories being the case. Cause it seems, IM doesn't bother to do so with the people of Ohara or even anyone else who is threatening his/her ruling power.

[teal stirrup]

Imu Devil Fruit - Crocodile is an inversion of Imu in regards to his weakness, concluding that water is Imu strength - Imu name back words is umi which means water in Japanese - imu is a reference to a bird like characteristic: this is concluded from observing the way robin uses her devil fruit powers, Mihawk name "Hawk Eyes", Doflamingo ect.). Conclusion - So following these three themes bird, water, and three eye we come to the conclusion that Imu has the mythical water fruit. The human human fruit model  Apsas the Celestial water nymph

For this to be the case, I would assume IM is the only devil fruit user that wouldn't drown in the seas? Cause this would be a contradiction to the weaknesses of the Devil Fruits.

[modest skiff]

If Imu's actions upset the planet, it is conceivable that the curse on "devil" fruit users started as a response to Imu. I have long believed that the curse on devil fruit users comes from the void century, but unclear as to how. One possibility is that Imu seizing the Eve tree upset the planet and caused the planet to curse all devil fruits so they can't go in the ocean so that Imu could be limited.

A lot of entirely baseless assumptions go into that, but just going off of what was already presupposed by the posted theories

[pure raven]

Kidd is going to evolve his fruit

similar to that of Douglas Bullet

https://tenor.com/view/douglas-bullet-fighting-gif-22189153

[teal stirrup]

If a normal person reap the benefits of the EVE tree, would this be considered as seizing or upsetting the planet too? And like what kind of actions would it have to be to qualify as "seizing"? Is it just taking one fruit? Is it just staying in Mariejois? Or is it you cutting the tree down?

[bitter kraken]

I do hope KiDD does a bit more with his fruit than what he have seen, cause come on it looks cool and all but making a metal arm to punch, repelling and magnetizing metals ehhhh he really should be as op as magneto is in the X-men

[acoustic helm]

Kidd should be able to electricity by means of magnetic field

[modest skiff]

If he has a metallic ring, yes, he should be able to induce current. Basically a janky version of Enel.

I think one of Kid’s potentially big strengths is detecting and navigating magnetic fields, which should eliminate the need for a log pose

[heady parrot]

One Piece Ending Date Theory:

One Piece will end on May 6th, 2027 (27-5-6 as it’d be written in Japan). 5-6 roughly translates to “go-mu” in Japanese and is a number often associated with Luffy due to his devil fruit being the Gomu Gomu no Mi (he’s even shown wearing a shirt with the numbers 5-6 as a kid). 5/6/27 happens to land on a Thursday that year, which is the day of the week new chapters release in Shonen Jump in Japan.

5/5, the day before this release date, is Luffy’s birthday as well, but that’s not super relevant just neat.

The final chapter will be 1256. 1+2=3 / “3-5-6” = “san-go-mu” which can be translated as both the honorific “san” in reference to Luffy with “go-mu” AND 3/san has been used in the past by Oda in a numerological pun with chapter 325 “san-ni-go” (where the Franky family enters the Going Merry for the first time) to reference the Thousand Sunny / thousand “san-ni-go” = thousand “sunny go”. So you could interpret san as sun as well thus making “3-5-6” = “sun gomu” which could be interpreted as Luffy bringing forth the “Dawn of the New World”. The “sun” rising on the morning of a new world made by “go-mu” aka the Pirate King, Monkey D. Luffy.

1256 also happens to be a chapter number Oda could very comfortably reach at his current pace by 5/6/27. He’d only need to average 34-36 chapters a year to reach this chapter by this date which is in line with his current release schedule.

[next swan]

Imu’s devil fruit is Mythical Zoan God

[amber oar]

Looks nice and fits with most estimations, but is Oda capable to estimate how many exact chapters left he's got, with such anticipation?

[supple anchor]

so if oda gets sick one time and has to take some time off the whole prediction is moot?

[heady parrot]

He lined up Doflamingos defeat with the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Waterloo so I’d say yes.

Reaching chapter 1256 by 5/6/27 also fits with the circulated idea that the “5 years left” estimates we’ve been given don’t really start counting down until Wano ends. Wano will probably end around late Spring 2022, and 5 years from spring 2022 is Spring 2027.

[supple anchor]

thats one theory that worked out but there have been waaay more numerology theories that havent come to fruition than ones that have. i think numerology is definitely something Oda engages in, but i think of it more as an easter egg rather than what defines his storytelling

also 5 years is whats been said everytime Oda is asked about the ending of One Piece, it was said in 2019 as well as any time before all the way to the beginning of the story where Oda said he only expected the series to run for 5 years.

[unique flare]

My theory was that the redline was created with a devil fruit, This explains 1. how it was created and 2. The all blues existence before the one-piece storyline
and my theory is that the person who made the red line got the immortality thingy from a previous ope ope no mi user and their death destroys the wall.
and killing them is only possible through submerging them in water then killing or using very strong haki
and my theory is that it is that person, Explains why he's soo high status and why the red line hasn't been destroyed yet
also, the reason he created the red line is to divide people and lessen how much people opposed them(divide and conquer)
killing it would destroy the redline, and Fishman island, and kill most celestial dragons(destroy Marie jois) and pretty much dismantle the wg if I'm correct
it'd also explain why he knows about the ancient giant straw hat that was possibly from the void century Unless of course, someone told him about it which I'd be less cool
plus it'd also explain why the wall is soo sturdy

[modest skiff]

Oda would never say when the story ends because that in itself would be a huge spoiler. If people knew when the last chapter was, they could extrapolate a great deal. That’s why when I was watching the anime, I was extremely strict about never knowing how long an arc was. When you know there are 30 episodes left, you can estimate power ups, unforeseen events and many other things. It totally ruins the story when you know how long it is. Oda would never build something this grand, the best anime of all time, then ruin it by giving people a knowable end point.

[thick sky]

^^^

But mohdoo, every manga announces when their last arc starts. Not that we would then know the duration of their last arc,

[light onyx]

It’s probably gonna finish later I think he said he’d prefer to finish it by 5 years

[modest skiff]

No reason to compare Oda to other writers who are not only much worse but also simply different people with different views. If Oda had all the same limitations of worse writers, One Piece wouldn’t be what it is

[thick sky]

It's not comparing it. It's what basically every series in WSJ has done

[modest skiff]

Still don’t think it’s relevant tbh

[unborn kayak]

I think the second ohara theory is much better than the first but it still has flaws

[neon shoal]

I dont get it
How can skypedians, highly advance civilization, resort to prehistoric time?

[gleaming crest]

a war maybe

[neon shoal]

Hmm yeah maybe

[junior cape]

Potentially, but only if Jaya became absolutely isolated from the world at large after the war

[modest skiff]

None of that implies they were the ones inventing the technology shown IMO

[neon shoal]

Might explain how karakuri island highly advance. Obviously one piece imply skypedian visit karakuri island and teach karakuri people of skypedian technology which karakuri island eventually turn into “future country” and reason why vegapunk, one of smartest people in one piece, came from karakuri island. The reason I believe skypedians may have visit karakuri island because spacey, cosmo, galaxy amd marco built in karakuri island and design from skepedian automata.

Honestly i wouldnt be suprised if skypedians coming to earth was the start of everything from the creation of devil fruit, formation of red line,etc

[ancient vault]

Readers are gonna know when we're in the final arc of the manga anyways. Its gonna be very obvious

And toei would spoil it for everyone anyways as soon as they find out

[junior cape]

lmfao tru

[sinful wedge]

Are there any theories over how Kureha would potentially know about the will of D?

Considering that the only way to know about it is reaching Raftel?

[gleaming crest]

isn't she pretty old

[grizzled fog]

She just knows about it. She doesn’t have to know what it actually is. There are multiple people that know of the will of D, you don’t have to go to Raftel

[sinful wedge]

Who are these other people who know about it and weren't close to Roger in some way or shape?

[mint prairie]

She's still in her youthful 140s.

[gleaming crest]

her age is longer than the void century

[frigid oxide]

spoilers?

Are there any

[modest skiff]

Not the channel to ask for spoilers in.

[dusky acorn]

There's theories that she used to be familiar with D. members. The main relations I've seen theories draw on are Roger and Xebec respectively. The Xebec connection of course tries to push for her originally being a Rocks Pirate. I believe the Roger connection tries to go for her being Roger's former doctor before he acquired Crocus. It is sort of hard to believe the Roger Pirates went that whole time without a ship doctor, and Crocus was indeed a late addition. So he was possibly filling in the gap for someone

This was my take on the scene, I do still hold by that it was going for showing that she's more than she let on, in some fashion

[grizzled fog]

Yea she definitely knows some stuff. She knew Roger’s actual name too, although that’s something I suppose anyone around when he was a rookie would know.

[mint prairie]

My shortsightedness is really not helping with this.

[acoustic helm]

You become primitive if knowledge ain't passed on ...

[pure raven]

philosopher Man

[pseudo citrus]

random question: is there any headcanon for how Hawkins makes straw doubles from people? I would think it's something you can't just "do", so my guess would be that he made his Kid double when Kid was imprisoned.

[modest skiff]

My head canon is he needs a strand of their hair. The dolls must be made from at least 1 strand of the target’s hair

[pseudo citrus]

fits with the possible inspiration from voodoo

[runic pawn]

rock d xebec is still aive at impel down

[pure raven]

@modest skiff @dusky acorn @teal stirrup
Thanks for the feedback, I feel like have a clearer interpretation of what to make of the theories. Because the inversion concept was really hard for me to understand, since there's no way to tell exactly when a character or events from the past is going to be inverted unless you use head cannon to say otherwise. Like who would of predicted early on in the story that Luffy would be an inversion of Blackbeard. It's so unpredictable and random to guess with Oda's inversions.

When you apply the inversion logic to theories they can get really wild and inconsistent; since you would be pulling from a variety of inversions in past chapters as a basis of evidence. For example I can say the beast pirates is an inversion of Don Kriegs crew, the Krieg crew being a pirate crew who was deprived of hunger and given food. Henceforth while the beast pirates were a crew that wasn't needing of food and stole food. I can also say that the beast pirates defeated a prominent swordsmen (oden) while the Krieg Pirates were defeated by a prominent swordsmen (mihawk)
I can than come to the conclusion that the beast pirates will be defeated in a inverted way contrary to the Krieg crew.
While Krieg was blown in the sky and luffy in the water. Kaido will be blown in the water while luffy remains in the sky.

The reaches are endless

• One Piece inverted would mean All Pieces, therefore there is no one treasure But multiple treasures that acts as a whole to symbolize the treasure at large.

• Chapter 1 inverted would be the last chapter of One Piece. if you turn upside-down the list of events that took place you could conclude that Luffy giving his straw hat back to shanks would be the last thing we see in the story. For his journey has now ended as he has filled his promise of becoming a "great pirate".

Think y'all get the point hahaha. All though it wasn't all the basis of Yuderon theory, since he does use numbers in word play; inversions seemed to be his main approach to things and I wasn't understanding at first until I got more feedback of all the other possible evidence to connect the pieces together.

Yes.

[split glacier]

Even if any theory was right, Oda always said he would change it if someone was right

[halcyon talon]

Did he actually say that?

[teal stirrup]

No problem Blast. I honestly really enjoyed reading this one. Looking forward to more future ideas! ^__^

[pure raven]

No way

[runic pawn]

what if or maybe goda foreshadowing in chap1 that we never notice

[craggy fjord]

One piece is Gaimon, he is a great treasure afterall

[pure raven]

There's 3 types of people who listen to theories.
The gullible type, people who blindly believe in everything they hear because it sounds good.
The skeptics, people who question the reasonings and try to understand why those conclusions are made.
Then the opinionated ones, people who give blatant criticism without refuting any of the claims with constructive reasoning.

Together the 3 types of people create the perfect balance in the theory community

[rustic granite]

The Skeptic is the best one

[rustic granite]

Stupid Ohara
Why did he have to post that April fool's video?

[pure raven]

Skepticism is supremacy lol I watched that video for 20 minutes was zoned and clueless. Felt like steam was coming out of my brain. Either im really stupid or this theory isn't making any sense

[hollow grotto]

The Ohara one? Yeah, it felt like he had a thought process on how to tell it, but both videos felt really jambled with no connective tissue

there wasn't something to link it back to, it was just a bunch of random connections thrown together - just generally incohesive

I did like some of the points he made, like the connections with the left eye and Jaya, but there were some things I felt were a bit of a reach too

[pure raven]

Yeah some of the points were interesting but the vast majority was so confusing things just didn't add up

[forest rampart]

Yes, Oda said he'll change the ending if a fan guessed it correctly.

[upbeat mist]

When does it get far enough in that he won't change the ending anymore

[spice berry]

Oda is better than that

[whole prairie]

Sometimes I think Garp is too smart to not exchange his own grandson with the son of pirate king, while raising both at the same place. That'd be a good twist to the story. :-D

[forest rampart]

What would happen to the straw hat if:

1. Luffy gives it back to Shanks later and Shanks keeps it
2. Luffy keeps the straw hat till the end. Like maybe someone/they'll keep the straw hat on his tomb, like how it was with Ace.
   2.1) But would Luffy gives the hat to someone else before his death? Like imo it'll be either Usopp or Shirahoshi~~ rather than Zoro~~. But what would Usopp do with it then?

[modest skiff]

I don’t think BB is an inversion of Luffy

[night jewel]

he didnt say this lol, the ending in oda's mind hasnt changed since the very beginning and he won't change it even if some theory guessed it according to an editor

[forest rampart]

Eh.. BB is an inversion of Luffy. Idk how to explain this but kinda I guess. Both with similar dreams but different personalities? Idk

[modest skiff]

You can say they have a lot of dissimilarities but I don’t think we can use it as some sort of understood fact that they are written as inversions

[rustic granite]

According to the One Piece Editor,he has seen many popular One Piece theories on the internet and almost every single one of them is wrong

[forest rampart]

He said he would change it. It's from an interview on a TV show in 2019.

[forest rampart]

Imo both of similarities and dissimilarities in Luffy and BB are balanced, 50/50 but that's just my opinion

[night jewel]

https://twitter.com/newworldartur/status/1352958646439833600?s=20

Artur - Library of Ohara (@newworldartur)

Oda confirms (via editor Isaka on a TV talk show) that the common fan myth of "if a fan discovers the ending of One Piece Oda will change it" is false. The ending has been the same since the start and even if someone were to guess it, Oda will not change it

My time has come 👀

Retweets

443

Likes

3230

Twitter · Jan 23, 2021, 12:37 PM

[sage wren]

The skeptic was the worst to read aaaaaah they sounded like they had a pre-determined conclusion and weren't interested in an understanding 😖

Also the gullible type has a qualifier "if its true" so its not blind acceptance 👀

[forest rampart]

Glad that this myth can be finally put to rest.
It's not a myth, there's a piece of recorded evidence of that interview.

The original quote is often misquoted when it was never meant to be taken that seriously.
Idk about this one tho.

Even the original interview states he's planned the ending since at least 1994, so it's obvious he wasn't gonna change it on such a whim
Not that I know anything about this one either.

And yes, actually I'm aware of that latest interview Arsal. But I forgot the year actually. And I havent see the actual source of this latest interview and seems like it came from his editor, not Oda himself, which is a bit different from the 2019 interview imo.

[night jewel]

the editor is reiterating what oda said though lol, i dont see what difference that makes

[ancient vault]

bruh

[night jewel]

the very latest words of oda debunk what might have been said before, thats all that matters, previous interviews arent important

[ancient vault]

u really think oda is throwing away about 24 years of build up cause a random fan guessed the ending lmao

[pure raven]

Yeah I agree a little, when I said inversion; I was mostly referring to them in terms of their polarizing personalities and dream into how they want to be King of the pirates

[forest rampart]

If he himself said so, then yes.

[night jewel]

oda doesnt even read theories lol, the only one he does are the ones he ends up getting in sbs questions, and he never changes things because of that

[modest skiff]

They both have extremely good luck, they both pick up allies wherever they go, they both are after the one piece, they both deeply believe in absolute freedom

[pure raven]

I mean here's just a few examples

Luffy wants to protect his nakama while BB doesn't care about them and only uses them for his grand plan

Luffy liberates countries while BB plunges countries

Luffy want to be Pirate king for freedom while blackbeard want to do it for control and dictatorship of the world

Bit of an inversion there I would say

[forest rampart]

Hmm well, that's true. And it doesnt seem like anyone could guess the whole ending of the series so that's fine I guess. Still, there're some really good theories out there tho

[modest skiff]

I disagree with BB not caring about his crew and I also disagree with your impression of his underlying motivations for being pirate king. I guess we’ll see as the story progresses

[amber oar]

Ultimately, the editor's word is a million times more valid than whatever theorist's headcanon

[night jewel]

yep.

[pure raven]

I really only say this because BB recruits his crew mates based off self interest. In impel down he made them have a death battle in order to join his crew. and if they're not strong there of no use. Also when he killed thatch for his DF he just called it bad luck. Shanks has referenced in the past that BB would stop at nothing to get his way when they had that conversation with WB. BB being a cunning person it's pretty consistent to say he doesn't really care about his crew mates when they're brought up out of self interest.
so just another thing to make a note of. While we don't know why he's so determined to be PK, we do know it's been stated that he wants to rule the world.

judging from this... you can say that they're only all in it for the power

[ancient vault]

Bb doesnt really shy away from using others for his own gain. If that mean to ultimately betray his mates then he will do so as he did before

[pure raven]

here's the 2 other statements of their approach to PK and why they want to do it. I would say it's an inversion. but guess we'll have to wait for more proof

[ancient vault]

clearly an inversion

Blackbeard wants to rule. Luffy doesnt.
Xebecs wanted to rule. Roger didnt.

[solid badger]

2 sides of the same coin

And shanks is the outer ridge of the coin

[snow grove]

roger had the power to rule , being free means to luffy to be the captain and have his owne ship ans crew , pirates doesn't respect rules so they're all free

[pure raven]

You sure about this?

[sage wren]

Yeah thats a good example

[snow grove]

today's episode kaido claimed that he wanted ancient weapons if he wanted them he would get them him self

[sage wren]

A lot of ppl overvalue coincidences

[snow grove]

i think in order to activate an ancient weapon you need something in particular like a code or something but with bigmoms df she'll give it a soul

[sage wren]

Coincidences are always there, but we consider them more important cuz our attention is drawn to them, pattern seeking brain and all that

[severe edge]

Honestly there might actually just be a lot of instances out there like the sanji panel one before skypiea but you just won't ever notice it as oda never came back to actually do the thing the panel could've foreshadowed so you can just put in like a lot of stuff that might never come true but it doesn't matter cause no one will notice anyway

[upbeat mist]

i think thats sarcasm

[bright vapor]

I don't remember if anyone talked about this... But could it be that Elizabello's "King Punch" is a use of a conqueror haki?

[plucky kiln]

this is a cool theory

[upbeat mist]

there was a writeup of it somewhere on reddit, i remember the post being linked in this channel;

[weak arrow]

No.

Black lightning can be used as a cool effect, which is doneso here.

[bright vapor]

But why no though?

[amber oar]

black lightning has been used for armament haki as well

[weak arrow]

Do you think this is Sanji using CoC?

[bright vapor]

Well he doesn't destroys a whole arena or a giant stone person with a size of a country, so... No?

[weak arrow]

Well I assumed your main reason behind the theory was black lighting, yeah?

[bright vapor]

I'm not only talking about black lightning bruh

[amber oar]

the size of the blast doesn't make a difference in that regard

[bright vapor]

No, no it was not.

[weak arrow]

Well then Jugol's point is basically all that's needed.

[bright vapor]

The size maybe, but we are talking about power?

[weak arrow]

it also would have knocked people out in the arena through the willpower, not just the devastation of the attack itself and would have been commented on

like luffy vs chinjao

[amber oar]

Chinjao would have 100% reacted like "oh, another one"

[pure raven]

I'd heavily doubt Oda would use some manga drawing effects as a preview to CoC Sanji

[weak arrow]

Yeah im using that panel as evidence to show "Black lightning does not automatically mean CoC"

[pure raven]

Oh

My bad

[bitter kraken]

So zoro is not confirmed CoC in manga right?

[snow grove]

Oda better stop using thunder on any attaque

Zoro is not kaido's lost son he's just lost

[pure raven]

black lighting comes off of the headbutt between ulti and luffy too i think thats just a way for oda to illustrate that these attacks are really strong. I assume CoC lightning only happens when its either stated that both fighers have CoC or the attacks dont touch.

In the past, lightning only came out when CoC users clashed but now it's for everytime armament haki users clash which kinda defeats the purpose.

[visual merlin]

it was never only when CoC users clashed

that may have been the first case we saw, but there's several cases even before Wano or even WCI where someone without Coc had the lightning

[weak arrow]

Tbf... Ulti does have the sound effect Oda uses for CoC lightning when she does that before she clashes with Luffy but she's the only outlier so far

[pure raven]

The first time we saw Lightning was when Luffy clashed with Don Chiajo (forgot his name but the guy with the drill head) and I'm pretty sure that there weren't any cases before then.

[visual merlin]

Yea, that was the first case

[weak arrow]

Well the first one is what was posted earlier, with king elizabello

[visual merlin]

oh actually true ^

So even the first case wasn't involved with Conquerors

[north crescent]

My theory is ... usopp goes to elbaf and becomes giant.

[modest skiff]

Is this a theory you believe seriously? If so, why do you think that? How would he become a giant? If not, it doesn’t belong in this channel, per the channel description

[north crescent]

I 100% believe this

[gloomy canyon]

@north crescent Genuinely don't use this channel if you just want to joke about Usopp. This channel is reserved for serious theories and discussion only

[north crescent]

I'm being serious wtf

[gloomy canyon]

Do you mind elaborating about your theory then. Why do you think that? Any evidence?

[north crescent]

Theorys need evidence?

[gloomy canyon]

They need some form of basis yeah

[amber oar]

a statement randomly thrown in a whim without any basis isn't a theory

[north crescent]

Look up the definition of theory guys you'll be surprised

a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

[stiff tusk]

Guys my theory is that the d means luck at sea think about it. Luffy is lucky like hell. And yeah ace Roger whitebeard died but they died satisfied. They died smiling. So it means luck at sea and also you will die smiling.

[amber oar]

a statement randomly thrown in a whim without any basis isn't a theory

[north crescent]

Its my theory speak for yourself

[light onyx]

Statement - evidence supporting your statement- wait if statement would happen or not

[gloomy canyon]

We don't want baseless ideas spurted out with nothing to back them up in here. We want to encourage thoughtful discussion. So final warning, please use this channel properly or don't use it at all. We're already clogging it up with this

[light onyx]

Agree with elbaf becomes a giant don’t agree unless they meet a devil fruit user that can make things bigger

[stiff tusk]

Please explain your theory the definition for this server is different then the definition you found please be serious with your theorys and explain them

[north crescent]

Usopp wants to go to ebalf so he can become a "warrior of the sea" and my theory is giants have spiecal shit that makes u big

[light onyx]

But they’re already big

[north crescent]

Thats why there big

[light onyx]

They’re born big

[north crescent]

You've never seen one born

[light onyx]

Why would I need to see one being born I saw the children on elbaf they were big

[stiff tusk]

Is everybody gonna ignore my theory

[light onyx]

Dluck?

[north crescent]

Ye

[stiff tusk]

I mean like the d as in monkey D luffy or portgas D ace

[light onyx]

I just thought D = devil and they’re behind the creation of the devil fruits

what if the devil fruits grew on the rlly fuckin big trees lol

[stiff tusk]

Yeah but does mine make sense

Or do you agree with it

[amber oar]

sorry mate. Thing is, dying with a smile isn't exclusive of Ds

[light onyx]

I don’t get it

[stiff tusk]

True but what about the luck part

[amber oar]

I don't see the connection between "d" and "luck"

[light onyx]

I wouldn’t really call roger or ace lucky

[stiff tusk]

Wait but every person with the d died smiling

[gloomy canyon]

We saw Roger have luck during the Edd war

[stiff tusk]

They did die satisfied

[gloomy canyon]

What about people like Oden? He died with a smile on their face

[stiff tusk]

They died smiling

[amber oar]

actually, it's kinda the opposite - as Law and Sengoku said, Ds seem to have a checkered fate.

Interestingly, Doflamingo used the same words for his own story, while being the opposite of a D

[stiff tusk]

Yeah but most people who died smiling have the d

[gloomy canyon]

But it's not a consistent trait that only exists among people with the D initial

[stiff tusk]

Actually yeah that is true

But do you not thing ace and Roger died satisfied

And whitebeard

[light onyx]

I don’t think ace was satisfied

Some could argue he is tho

[stiff tusk]

What about whitebeard

[light onyx]

He doesn’t have a d In his name

[stiff tusk]

Oh yeah

[stiff tusk]

You guys have done well to disprove my theory

[amber oar]

Roger, Ace, Rouge, Luffy (didn't die but was ready for it). That's 4
Oden, Hiriluk, Rocinante, Bon-Chan (didn't die either but if I'm including Luffy it's fair to include him, he was also ready to die with a smile). That's 4

basically, the same amount of Ds and non Ds have either died or been ready to die with a smile

[pure raven]

do you have a final form one?

[light onyx]

They all seem to extremely hate the celestial dragons and one way or another go against them

[stiff tusk]

Yeah I admit you have disproved it

[light onyx]

Garp remains a lower rank so he doesn’t fall under their control

[stiff tusk]

Sorry for bothering you

[amber oar]

Ds tend to be anti authority, if that's a pattern we can observe on them

[light onyx]

Nah it’s cool good attempt theory

[light onyx]

Still weird how two D’s stopped a D from destroying the CD’s despite hating them

[amber oar]

I guess their sense of justice prevailed.

Just like when Fisher Tiger released the slaves regardless of race, but in his deathbed, he admitted he never stopped hating humans

[light onyx]

Fair

[vagrant crystal]

Where is it stated that Ryuma slayed the dragon 400 years ago or lived during that time?

[gloomy canyon]

It never said 400 years

It just said that he died centuries ago

[vagrant crystal]

I wonder where the 400 number came from I’ve seen it multiple times

[amber oar]

the one that was 400 ago was Noland

[vagrant crystal]

Ig it’s a rumor

[stiff tusk]

My new theory is that first their was one big pirate crew the captain will be called d for now. And anyone who joined would change their name to d. Eventually this crew started breaking apart other members leaving making their own crews and they kept the name d this whole time they had kids who carried the d and also had to do with pirates. My proof is that the celestial dragons are the people who made the world government so I also want to assume that they were made around the same time and also the reason he did this is because the letter d symblozed God around the 15th to 16th century. In other words gods are free and follow no other athorouties. Ds chatchprase was probably something like free as a god hahahahahah. (The part about d symbolizing as Dues used to be god in latin) d wanted his crew to follow no athorouties orders and not care what others told them to do. If you are thinking what about garp well garp has disobeyed the government many times like when he let luffy go. And also the celestial dragons considered themselves to be gods and he hated celestial dragons and as I said earlier d used to symbolize for so to annoy the celestial dragons he made his name d.

Hope you like it took me about an hour or research

[pure raven]

Here we go again

This is just a fan fiction at this point lol

[pure raven]

Chopper's devil fruit awakeing would be transform to monster point without orange things

[deep egret]

idk if frosty's theory is a troll or not lol

[pure raven]

honestly like 70% of the "Theories" in here are just thoughtless fan fics or people seeing some clickbait video on youtube and posting it.

[split stone]

My theory is that the gorosei are people under the effect of the perennial youth surgery, that's it.

[pure raven]

I found it randomly.

[pastel summit]

bellemere, yasu, vergo, monet (I think), a lot of brook's crew. there's a lot more non D who have died smiling lol

[gloomy canyon]

Yeah she smiles right before she's about to sacrifice herself, but then Caesar stabs her anyway

[pastel summit]

yeah I wasn't 100% sure on monet, and was on phone so looking for panel is annoying

[pure raven]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for any joke theories you may have. This channel is strictly for serious discussion on the realm of possibilities one truly believes in, and can explain in a manner that conveys why. Please consider this a general warning.

[amber oar]

Dude wasn't joking, he just needs to work on his redaction. Perhaps not even a native speaker, you never know.

Still I feel some people just try too hard to pull something, anything, forcing themselves to spit one theory after another. It's like they want to nail one and brag later/be famous.

My advice - aim for quality, not quantity

[pure raven]

Yeah sorry you're probably right, couldn't tell to be honest. Although now that I scroll up he doesn't seem to be trolling.

It just looks too crazy to be a theory at first glance

[coral birch]

Since all of usopps lies come true, I speculate that sniper island will be located in the all blue

[amber oar]

but then Sogeking wouldn't be from Sniper Island.
I like the theory that the island where Syrup Village is located will be known as Sniper Island. After all Usopp isn't even the first famous sniper to come from there

[pearl wagon]

Yeah, when one piece is over and everybody's chipping you know Nami swimming in Beli, franky making a new invention, usopp will be at syrup village where he tells real stories to Kaya and teaches the children on the island good aiming, and it becomes a sniper island

Do you think luffy and chopper actually thought usopp wasn't sogeking?

[gusty frost]

It’s luffy

[junior cape]

The real theories were the friends we made along the way.

On that note, I think the epilogue of OP will just be snapshots of Luffy & crew sailing around the world, going on adventures and making friends. And then, at the end, they'll split in an absolutely stoic farewell, and that'll be that.

And at that farewell, not a tear will be shed at all. Just like Roger's farewell.

[boreal gate]

What's this?

[gloomy canyon]

Monet

[boreal gate]

I don't recall she saying that

[pure raven]

Guys do you think it's weird that the WG doesn't go after the poneglyphs and one piece? The gorosei wanted pluton to end the great pirate era so wouldn't it make sense to use poneglyphs?

I'm sure they have cp agents alll over the world so it wouldn't take much effort

[solid badger]

By technicality law’s sister and his parents are Ds as well, I believe his sister was named lammy

Not a lot of ppl pick this up

[boreal gate]

Either because as Kaido said they are confident that they have a powerful force (s) that they no longer need the warlords.

So, maybe they want to get rid of as many pirate as possible, to reduce the chances of pirates finding more about One Piece.

Presuming that the WG at least knows if either they or the pirate find the one piece, it's gonna change the world

So, I am guessing that they don't want to go after the one piece because it would have a negative impact on their current power and control over the world

[pure raven]

I mean they could keep it a secret😧

[boreal gate]

Remember they said that there are 3 powers in the world that keep the balance? WG, warlords and yonkos

They wanna destroy that balance. I bet they already have a good idea of what the One Piece is, and that's why they are so afraid of it.

Maybe they already have it?

[pure raven]

Feels off

I think they know what it is though

[boreal gate]

I don't think that the "One Piece" is just 1 object.

But a series of actions, objects, information, instructions, etc

That if put together they form the One Piece, which I think is the world.

So, I am just guessing that the straw hats will find the One Piece, and their last adventures are gonna be about putting/creating/joining everything as one

Remember that Gold D Roger had this illness and he was about to die.

Maybe when they found out about the One Piece, they laughed because they knew Roger did not have much time left to do all of it, plus some other factors, they were too early. 20 years too early.

[pure raven]

Yeah timeline is weird

[boreal gate]

I don't think that Oda is the type of creator that will end a 20 years series just with "We found the One Piece" the end.

So, they find it, but they have to "create it"

Does this make sense or am I too high?

[junior cape]

The reason they dont go after them is because they're confident that nobody will be able to read them, or, like with Ohara, anyone who does will be obliterated anyways.

They literally massacred a nation to stop the poneglyphs from leaking out

They are serious about them, they just dont gather them because they dont need to.

[pastel summit]

This is exactly why it is weird lol. They are all about preventative measures, to INCREDIBLY extreme degrees. So why stop at just "Oh, you're slightly understanding what is written on the poneglyphs? Okay, time to stop you", why not just... prevent people from having any kind of access to begin with? It costs them barely that much effort, for so much more security.

They clearly do NEED to, because they had to stop Ohara with genocide. and I doubt it's just been Ohara over the past 800 years.

[junior cape]

Because most poneglyphs are in the grand line, most people will never see them, fewer still will attempt to read them. Access is not an issue. Also, world nobles are stupid lazy assholes. They cant think that far ahead.

[pastel summit]

Gorosei are the ones who make the decisions, and they thought far enough ahead to go ahead with genocide.

I mean, we don't know where "most" poneglyphs are located

there was 1 in west blue. and even then, just because most of the general public can't access them, it's a world riddled with pirates who may or may not access them.

It doesn't really make sense to not go after them. Again, costs barely anything, and outright prevents the issue entirely.

especially in a post-roger world. They don't seem to try to do anything about them.

[junior cape]

We literally do. They are spread across the world, yes, but as of so far, we've run into the majority of them on the Grand Line.

[pastel summit]

that's because we've only seen the grand line. We haven't seen a majority of poneglyphs.

[grizzled fog]

Robin had already seen tons of them before alabasta right?

[pastel summit]

2 if you include the one on Ohara.

We only saw her find 1 on some random island.

[grizzled fog]

Pretty sure we know from some panel that she read lots

[junior cape]

Only about 30 are known to exist. So far we've seen:
-one in alabasta
-one in upper yard
-one in fishman island (formerly 2)
-3 on wci
-1 in zou
-3+ in wano
-1 in ohara
-1 in an unknown island, likely in the grand line

That's at least 10 on the grand line. Given that lodestar island also likely has one, since everyone turns around there, and that puts over 40% of poneglyphs on the grand line alone. Even if the rest are spread out across the world, you are far more likely to encounter them on the grand line.

[pastel summit]

well, if you can find that panel, feel free to post. I don't recall her ever specifying she's read a lot, just that Alabasta was her last lead.

there's only 2 we know of in Wano.

but that's still not most, thanks for counting. We haven't seen most of them.

[junior cape]

Wrong. There is the one in the kokeshi room, the one on onigashima, and the red one which is hidden, but still there. Who knows if he gathered more.

[pastel summit]

and even then, I don't think that really addresses anything.

Even if we assume most of them are in the grand line, that's still not a reason for them to not go after them

because majority of WG forces are located in the Grand Line anyway.

They can still go after them, and it still prevents people from ever discovering them.

If Jinbei alone can move a poneglyph, I refuse to believe the WG would struggle lol.

[junior cape]

The world nobles likely forbid ANYONE from going after them, military/govt invluded.

[grizzled fog]

It was this, but I had misremembered it. She probably hasn’t found many I guess

[pastel summit]

why?

What's the purpose of not storing them within Mary Geoise itself, even if this is the case? Does it not actively prevent ANYONE from going after them then?

They've had 800 yrs of being at the top of the world. Any time a poneglyph is sighted, they can just... go after it, move it to Mary Geoise. 1 less thing to worry about.

[junior cape]

Arrogance, maybe

Look man I dont have all the answers

Despite much evidence to the contrary

[pastel summit]

Right, but the initial proposition was whether you think it's weird or not. I'm not asking for answers, just saying why CURRENTLY, it is definitely weird that they have not tried to collect them.

Maybe there is an underlying reason that we don't know about

[junior cape]

Imu forbids it

Maybe

[hexed vapor]

do yall think the theory that brook is kuzan father is true?

[pastel summit]

I mean, that would still require an explanation why Imu forbids it lol

[grizzled fog]

Perhaps you could spitball and say there’s some ancient bullshit mechanism in the poneglyphs that prevents it from being moved by the wg.

[pastel summit]

yeah but we did see Jinbei move one

[grizzled fog]

He’s not with the wg

[mint prairie]

What foundations does that theory have aside from the afro?

[pastel summit]

Oh... you mean like, it has some sensor thing that identifies WG people? That would be... very weird.

[grizzled fog]

Idk. It’s an extreme stretch, just offering ideas

[pastel summit]

yeah idk. I currently have no real explanation. Arrogance is likely the reason, but man, I'd like to believe if you've held power for 800 years, you wouldn't be thinking like that. Especially with the lengths we've seen them go to in order to defend the secret within the poneglyphs.

Like Genocide isn't off the table but just moving them is?

If OP world wasn't so fucked with communication, I don't think the genocide thing would be going over that well lol.

[junior cape]

Maybe the isolation is the point. If you gathered all the stones in one place, it'd only take one good siege to get it all. By keeping them separate you force would-be usurpers to brave the world, searching for answers, and most will die trying.

[wet perch]

Security by obscurity

[mint prairie]

Also look at Ohara. They just deleted an entire island and actively put down any fire that might develop into the understanding of the lost history. The chances of someone looking for the Poneglyphs, which are already hard to come by, and deciphering them before getting Buster Called are extremely low.

Better not to draw attention by sending people to retrieve the Poneglyps and just let the fools spring up into the radar by themselves.

[pastel summit]

how does moving them attract more attention than committing genocide?

[mint prairie]

"What are those weird cubes and why are they being collected?" might have a harder time getting an answer than "why are you raining fiery death upon these people?" because the latter can be answered with "because they're big baddies and if you care so much about them why don't we Buster Call your sorry face?"

[pastel summit]

the law was already established and understood that reading poneglyphs was illegal though. I don't see why it is weird for them to be collecting things already deemed illegal to study.

There's also already an established answer for "what are those weird cubes and why are they being collected?" and it's that they hold the keys to the ancient weapons, and WG doesn't want people to know about them. Also, none of these questions are being asked anyway, and if they are, they're being asked by the revolutionaries, in which case "why did you genocide a whole island?" is a much more incriminating question than "why are you moving stones?"

[mint prairie]

Good point. However, it's hard to tell how much of Law's knowledge comes from things anyone can find out and how much comes from the deeper stuff people has sniffed out like Roger's life, the Will of D, and so on.

[mint prairie]

Are the ancient weapons common knowledge? I know Crocodile knew, but he seemed vague about it, while Robin knows more because Robin.
Cobra knows because of the Alabasta history and monarchy.
Franky/Iceburg know because of the well kept blueprints, while Cipher Pol knows because of the group's nature.
Fishmen know because Neptune literally gets reincarnated in their kingdom, and most other characters have a certain knowledge of the deeper secrets of the world.

[pastel summit]

It is the "public" reason why poneglyphs are deemed illegal to study.

As far as how public knowledge is on poneglyphs in general.

[mint prairie]

So the existence of the ancient weapons is a public fact? I'll need to check that up at some point.

[pastel summit]

A lot of it is fucky, because a lot of general civilians in OP world are not privy to a lot of knowledge. Like, either information just doesn't travel to their part of the world, or they're simply unaware/don't care.

e.g. devil fruits being considered a myth in the east blue, but devil fruits being very public knowledge in the grand line.

[faint oar]

Anyone with knowledge on the ancient weapons should probably be executed

Even knowing that they exist

[mint prairie]

That's interesting indeed. I understand there are layers of publicly available knowledge due to the way the world works.

Yeah, I see little reason to keep the Poneglyphs out for anyone to find if they have an excuse for collecting them. The only thing I can think of is if they really have no idea of how much Poneglyphs are out there in the world, so collecting them might be a waste of resources and effort given more might be kept hidden from the WG.

[pastel summit]

Yeah, but even that is accessible knowledge. Somehow BM crew found out how many poneglyphs there are. I assume it is likely from Lodestar, because it's said once you reach there, you learn about the road poneglyphs as well. So if WG has ever gone there, then they would have knowledge about the number as well.

It's not so much about current time for me though, more like, why they didn't collect them towards the earlier part of their reign. Like, just remove them before anyone has any time to figure out they even exist.

[restive kestrel]

Did big mom and kaido talk about the ancient weapons in the manga aswell? Cant remember they did, while the anime did

[supple anchor]

maybe the WG had no way to read the poneglyphs and they didn't know that they led to the One Piece? I mean we don't know whats actually on Lodestar but im guessing that other pirates or marines could have also gotten there but until Roger got there no one was attempting to look for road poneglyphs. Those poneglyphs were hidden pretty well with one being on Wano, a super isolated country with a strong independent force, another was on FMI and the marines dont go down to FMI because they can go over the Red Line and have no reason to go under it, and that one was well hidden too, the other was on Zou which is a massive moving elephant that cant be found unless you know a mink. Poneglyphs are indesctructible and have information on the void century on them but you could never be sure that you found all of them so instead i could see why you would take away the ability to read them. Its like instead of confiscating guns, you ban all bullets.

[supple anchor]

yeah thats one of the reasons for their allience. they were going to resurrect the ancient weapons and get the one piece

[restive kestrel]

I might have forgotten it seems

[supple anchor]

it happens

Poneglyphs were specially crafted and only a few people from Wano can make them as well as read them, until Ohara, which prompted a rather quick and brutal silencing. So the plan to stop people from being able to read the poneglyphs worked for 800 years, right up until Oden and Roger met. Collecting them also has risks because then all of them would be in the same place which if you have the ability to read them, actually makes your job a lot easier instead of scouring the grand line to find em.

Mariejois isnt completely impregnable, Fisher Tiger escaped from there with a bunch of slaves, Revs literally just snuck into and attacked the place at the Reverie, and you have a Reverie every 4 years where people from all over the world come to Mariejois with their own people

[alpine forge]

Zoro will kill orochi cuz orochi sent his men in east blue to kill zoro's mother and him. But however the dojo master kept zoro's identity secret as informed to him from ushimaru. Thus Kuina was killed by the orochi's men. Niw zoro will take Kuina's and his mother's revenge upon orochi after he finds out

[acoustic helm]

Don't take away stair's feat..

[fathom matrix]

Honestly, what if Momo actually gets the kill on Kaido?

Like, Hiyori gets the kill on Orochi but and Momo gets the Kaido, and they both use their sword at the same time?

Like, Luffy DOES defeat Kaido, but Kaido does rise back up and tries to attack them, but Momo's handed his sword to slay him, and Zoro throws Enma to Hiyori or she picks it up, to slice off the last head of orochi OR destroy his body

[acoustic helm]

So you think Emma so ez to control

[fathom matrix]

I think if you can use Haki, it draws it out and forces you to armament it, BUT if you don't use haki, it can't do that to you.

so maybe cause Hiyori never learned haki, it won't force any strain

[acoustic helm]

That's headcannon

[alpine forge]

When will nami and robin use haki ??? Can anyone tell

Chopper also

[acoustic helm]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-shrug-i-dont-know-gif-14777043

[alpine forge]

dragon and ushimaru might be best friends and dragon brought zoro to east blue

[tidal tangle]

momo doesnt have the power to kill kaido

even zoros best attack only left a wound , u think momos has enough power to Decapacitate kaido

[pure raven]

I believe it's not because they didn't want to remove/relocate the stones before anyone else could read them but its due to the time of when these stones were created. It's most likely that they were hidden specifically from the WG within the first few hundred years so that the future decsendants could protect them and continue to hid them away. So IF/WHEN it does happen that the WG have found em, they not only wouldn't be able to read them but they wouldn't notice that the stones were from the Void Century.

And we know this for a fact because the agents who encountered one of the stones, acted as if it was the first time they saw such thing.

Thus, it was only from this point onwards when Clover spoke of the writings on these stones, that the WG, particularly the Gorosei, began to suspect that they were from the people of the Ancient Kingdom.

[pure raven]

If you want to know anything else regarding Void Century or Poneglyphs. You can read this theory I wrote a while back.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/p09bom/the_true_name_of_ancient_kingdom_will_of_d_joyboy/

[fathom matrix]

Nami doesn't seem like the haki user type.

Robin I'm VERY surprised about that she didn't learn it

[rustic granite]

Imo Robin already has Haki

[weary cliff]

It's your opinion that she secretly has haki that she hasn't used?

[rustic granite]

She used it in Ch.1021

[weary cliff]

Okay I gotcha. No, that wasn't haki

[rustic granite]

Imo it was.Let's wait till the anime confirms it

[fathom matrix]

It was more of a shadow TBH. Haki has that metallic black and white texturing, and TBH, during some of her fights and encountering enemies, wouldn't she have used it against opponents like Diamante and gladius for defence?

Or marbe brook would have shouted "YOHOHOHOHOO, I didn't know you could use haki, is that new?"

[weary cliff]

I really don't know know how to phrase this this without being an asshole, but sharing a questionable take just to say "we'll see" doesn't do much for the convo

[fathom matrix]

Plus, the anime's not always that accurate. They got King's wing colour wrong once in the opening

[patent summit]

I think it was implied that Robin used haki in 1021

[fathom matrix]

I see her using it after wano

[weary cliff]

I think you should compare that to actual armament and see the difference then

[fathom matrix]

there are still kinda vasts amounts of light and the texture looks like a shadow

Haki has a more metallic look and looks more solid in the shading

[patent summit]

Ah yeah i see

[weary cliff]

Haki has been very consistent in presentation, yeah

[patent summit]

Maybe it is just armament but oda shading it fhat way to make it look more menacing

[fathom matrix]

robin's shadows look kinda give off the illusion of soft brush almost, like it blends well with the light part of the skin

[patent summit]

Gonna need to reread 1021

Why would oda shade it that way if it isn't armament?

[hexed vapor]

beacuse she supposed to look like a demon

[fathom matrix]

again, it's more like a shadow.

[patent summit]

Ahh okay

[hexed vapor]

and probobly making her form kinda scary and mysterious

[patent summit]

You think she is stronger than franky atm?

[hexed vapor]

yes

[fathom matrix]

I would find it interesting if after wano, Robin looked at her hands seeing them scarred or bruised, looks at zoro or luffy training with armament, and asked if they could give her the basics, maybe saying she didn't have a enough time to properly get a grip of haki, and asking one of them to give her a run down or an idea for her to work with.

[hexed vapor]

yes it would be good but oda would not do that since she would be op with haki and her df

[split stone]

Theory shanks is the king of loadstar

[fathom matrix]

Cause Robin always puts her limbs in danger when using her ability, and any damage to them is reflected back onto her.

[hexed vapor]

yeah we can only hope but i want to see luffy training ussop observation haki more

[stiff tusk]

I was serious how does it look like I www joking.it took me an hour of research and you take it as a joke a had lots of proof and I detailed it so much

[mortal field]

Idk bout yall but Robin being near Sabo and Koala for 2 years and not learning Haki just seems weird to me. Im guessing she doesnt have a “full” control of it but she has to know the basics of what it can do.

Maybe Oda said “yea this shadow looks raw” and went with that but i think it is Haki, just not fully formed one

Kinda like how Sanji knew haki but his was weak. Considering Rejiu was the one to mention it (i think)

[rustic granite]

Faxs

Like if she had spent time with Sabo and Koala,she got to have learnt some Haki

[mortal field]

I doubt Sabo just goes “oh your on my lil brother crew? Nice! Im not gonna teach you or tell you bout Haki, you know, the biggest thing in the New World”

Everyone got haki like its a starter pack, at some point the SH will get it too

hopefully Brook is next

[rustic granite]

Imo Nami could have CoO

And Chopper CoA in Monster point

[weary cliff]

I think part of the point of the raid is to show that our SH's are able to get by without haki. It seems unlikely that they start unlocking it one after the other at this way late stage of the journey. It wouldn't just be a bit repetitive, but narratively inconsistent. The major combatants of the crew took actual hard time from experienced users to pick it up and master it. Nami mastering observation in the next couple of arcs just dunks on Sanji, you know

[queen arrow]

the shadow effect on Robin is clearly different from how haki looks overall as well

[mortal field]

I do think some will get by other ways, Franky could probably incorporate sea prism in his inventions, Chopper is a doctor and is already strong in Monster Point, Nami use the weather, only one i expect to have haki is Brook and Robin

But even then i doubt Brook would have it tbh, his Soul King can take care of weak enemies. Only reason i say Robin is because she was with the revolutionary army im sure they wanted her to learn some type of haki

[rotund pond]

I think everyone should have basic haki before EOS just to reinforce the pirate kings crew is strong

I’m not gonna lose any sleep if they don’t tho, it’d just be cool if Franky brook Robin got it

[weary cliff]

Just don't see it happening without another timeskip. But really I just don't see it happening. It takes what was sort of a big moment for Usopp and standardizes it

[patent summit]

Would fit her nicely

[fathom matrix]

TBH, yeah. She got s good handle on her devil fruit powers, but I'm surprised no one suggested haki to her.

[rustic granite]

Yeah

I mean in the New World,even fodders know Haki

[edgy leaf]

I would prefer if she asked Jinbe, I ship them and he might know how to teach her. Luffy/Zoro probably wouldn't know how to explain it (and Sanji is too much of a simp)

[pine delta]

even if you're being 'trained' in haki its still not easy. could argue robin knows of it and the rudimentaries but can't apply it in combat (yet. demonio might be it or might not the anime treatment will be the decisive check of this scene. robin devil fruit is so busted i wouldn't be suprised if applying haki to it is too difficult for an in verse explanation)

[edgy leaf]

I meant that if a Straw Hat were to teach her, Jinbe would be the best option

[pine delta]

headcanon that haki is a manifestation of will, with specialized forms of it being developed (vegapunk focusses it onto inventions, nami focusses it on weather, zoro focusses it on swordsmanship, etc)

[drowsy sapphire]

Do you think that zoro is shimotsuki and if so do you think that he is getting shusui back or not? (It was literally given to him by ryuuma himself)

[sand chasm]

Big mom and Luffy are gonna be besties after Luffy becomes King of the Pirates

I bet she’ll help organize a big ass feast for the strawhats in the future

Kaido’s either gonna die/get heavily injured in battle or die of old age in a jail cell after years of reflecting on his ways

Ussopp prolly gone gain weight again but this time dad bod

https://tenor.com/view/ogvhs-crystal-ball-prediction-future-predict-gif-18199743

[pine delta]

to support why i think kaido loses and big mom flees with him:

-Would be narrartively repetitive to have kaido and big mom show up for yet another arc
-they have backstory that is alluded to
-both of their crews have expressed the flaws in their leadership styles
-what is kaido's dream? to destroy onigashima, turn wano into a factory and get the one piece. if luffy wins he basically destroys his dream no need to actually kill him

also just a concept. theres a devil fruit for most living animals and even people. why is there no fish or fishman devil fruits? or any other race for that matter? maybe the human superiority currently in the series is due to void century and ancient kingdom was a fishmen

[lofty zenith]

Are there any recent good theories?

[bitter kraken]

I think kaidos dream is actually to die

[pine delta]

if kaidos dream is to die gloriously luffy killing him would be the opposite of a destroyed dream

[bitter kraken]

Yeah but I don’t see luffy straight up killing him, that’s way out of character for him he always just beats his opponents. He didn’t kill doffy, so really no chance he’ll kill kaido but if kaido does get killed I’m thinking Yamato does it RiP

[pastel wasp]

Lol coby comes and takes him to prison or something idk

[drowsy oracle]

coby gonna be carrying boa and kaido on the same ship then

[pastel wasp]

well i dont think he'll flee or die so SOME MARINE might take him

[drowsy oracle]

Flee with bm looks likely

That would be crazy Luffy running kaido out of wano

[pastel wasp]

yeah but he doesnt seem the type to "run away"

[drowsy oracle]

I mean if he is knocked out and BM is carrying him

[pastel wasp]

BM is stoopid shes prob gonna rampage all around onigashima

[drowsy oracle]

Luffy one shooting her now

[pearl wagon]

I think luffy and Colby are going to roger-garp blackbeard

[drowsy oracle]

very possible

[pearl wagon]

I think it's happening in lodestar

[drowsy oracle]

is colby gonna get conqueror's haki

[bitter kraken]

We haven’t seen anything from Coby to indicate he could be the Garp to luffys Roger, it would be nice tho

I’m still thinking boa beats coby lol

[untold yacht]

hold up time skip coby could be pretty strong

[drowsy oracle]

U think Coby can use that new marine technology

[pearl wagon]

My prediction
Luffy-Roger
Garp-Colby
Rayleigh-Zoro
Teech-Xebec
Kid-Whitebeard
Smoker-Sengoku

I don't really have any evidence, except the obvious smilarites in their personality and relationships

[bitter kraken]

I think they all got stronger post time skip, so Boa herself could have gotten stronger and since she was already stronger than Coby pre time skip I’m tthinking she’s gotten stronger than him, she’s also confirmed CoC that alone puts her in a special tier

I feel bad for smoker tho I feel he got done dirty post time skip lol

[drowsy oracle]

I dont see Boa getting stronger, Colby acc has a reason to train

[pearl wagon]

Yeah, hancock strength is underrated

I don't have a theory for this, but do you think zoro is green bull's sun (i just heard it somewhere so just asking)

[bitter kraken]

I think it’s more likely his pedigree comes from Ryuma’s family

[pearl wagon]

Yeah i think that too

Hopefully we get to know more about green bull soon

Where do you think fujitora and green bull were before sakazuki was promoted and kuzan left? They weren't vice admirals i think

[soft cloud]

World Military Draft, it was mentioned

[light onyx]

Fair

[pearl wagon]

Oh, i don't remember that

[idle needle]

solid

[pure raven]

didnt

shiki say that the plan would basically be up in 20 years as he was talking to dr. indigo?

Its nearly 20 yr later when luffy started a war in Wano

[flint inlet]

vegapunk reveales in chp 1032 theory?

[acoustic helm]

Proof?

[viscid shale]

??

[pine delta]

walks into room
vegapunk reveal 1032
offers no proof
leaves

[flint inlet]

idk i just read it on ig was just askin

[ancient vault]

its yuderons theory pretty sure. Has to do with japanese numerology and word play

[next swan]

He’s been right before

[hollow grotto]

He said in a video interview with Ohara that 10(32), based on wordplay, could stand for "Heavenly Disaster" or "Genius", so Yuderon believes the next 'big' chapter is that one, as it'll either be the fall of Onigashima or a Vegapunk reveal.

iirc

[mint prairie]

The thing is he throws many readings in, so it could be either of those. He's not wrong with the prediction that sticks the landing, but that doesn't mean we'll get Vegapunk in 1032.

[hollow grotto]

As much as I'd love to finally see him, I don't think we're getting that in this arc with where we are right now. It more likely is relating to the wordplay for Heavenly Disaster if we are going with wordplay, or nothing at all, given that the chapters are lining up well for a chapter titled something relating to Onigashima's fall

[autumn pilot]

Blackbeard is going to whole cake island 🥱

[mint prairie]

Best case scenario, we get some small appearance from Vegapunk, some sort of "Vegapunk is on the move!" kind of thing.

[acoustic helm]

Something like this maybe

[gloomy canyon]

Man, not every chapter number has some secret meaning or hint about the content of the chapter

[acoustic helm]

Well ppl theorize on patterns and stuff you know

[sturdy hound]

i will never forgive ohara for exposing the west to yuredon

[gloomy canyon]

Also didn't realize your username was man lol, I was saying man as a general term

[acoustic helm]

!patterns

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/728691851556552744/unknown.png

[sturdy hound]

!numbers when

[gloomy canyon]

What's your opinion on Yuderon again Mip?

Actually I'll ask that in #also-manga

[nova agate]

Done with watching Ohara's 2nd "best theory" video. I want my time back

[primal pivot]

i enjoyed it

dont rlly believe much of it but still

[queen arrow]

i'm sorry for your loss

[acoustic helm]

Owl pirates

[gentle lily]

The problem I see with Ohara's theory videos is that they are made to be good attention grabbers, but never really come to a conclusion or explain that conclusion. He just says some interesting cough cough parallels cough cough, but never seems to connect everything. I enjoy the videos, but I feel like the theories are not that well supported

[amber oar]

I don't feel the need (actuall I know why they do it but still annoying) to make a long ass video for something that could be a 10 min read. Most of the time I have short breaks that allow me to read a long ass text, but I'm rarely able to sit 40 minutes and watch a video.

On top of that, I'm not a native English speaker, and while I read and write fluently, I still have issues listening, specially people who talk fast or have heavy accents.

[ancient vault]

Ur written english is amazing btw

I understand everything but i dont wanna waste my time like OCJ just did

[amber oar]

I mean, I'd rather not either way, but even if I had the intention to watch, there's these other barriers

[amber oar]

Also, thanks

[mint prairie]

In case you wanted useless extra info:

01027 ー 0(お) 10(でん) 2(に) 7(なる), おでんに成る, Oden ni naru, To become Oden.
1027 ー 10(てを) 2(つ) 7(なぐ), 手を繋ぐ, te wo tsunagu, Holding hands.
1027 ー 10(て) 2(じ) 7(な), 手品, tejina, Magic.
1027 ー 10(ど) 2(つ) 7(ち), どっち？, docchi?, Which one?/Which way?
1027 ー 10(で) 2(つ) 7(ち), でっち（上げた）, decchi ageta, Made up.
1027 ー 1(い) 0(れ) 2(つ) 7(なし), 位列なし, iretsu nashi, No rank/grade.

Also it seems there might be another one:

1027 ー 10(で) 2(つ) 7(ち), でっち, decchi, apprentice (chore boy?).

[acoustic helm]

Koido apprentice in rocks

[gentle lily]

chore boy? koby? do we have another theory on our hands?

[mint prairie]

Some are very clear, but some might be weird.
Tejina/Magic might refer Hawkins or something else entirely.

[acoustic helm]

Yeah. So many possibilities

Orochi called toki witch

[mint prairie]

It might as well refer to Orochi himself.
Tejina refers more as magic tricks, more in the sleight-of-hand area than shooting lasers.

Street magic, if you will. See Tejina-senpai manga for reference.

[acoustic helm]

Or ninja fight tricks

[gentle lily]

I mean all of these translations have some connection to Wano

[sage wren]

This is like every youtube video lol

[mint prairie]

That's a good interpretation as well, maybe we get the conclusion to Raizo v. Fukurokujo.

[gentle lily]

i mean yeah, but I've seem some theory videos that give some overarching thing to the video

[acoustic helm]

So these patterns are just coincidence

[gentle lily]

and I just didnt see it in the two he's made

[sage wren]

Like I watch a science video and don't expect it to prepare me for that subject, its just a drop in the ocean compared to what it could be

[mint prairie]

Docchi/Which or Where might be anything involving a choice between one out of two or more options.
Decchi (ageta) or Made up does not ring any bells for me, it might involve Usopp, it might be anything, really. Probably the weakest pun.
Iretsu nashi or No rank/Ungraded might refer to the two prominent ungraded weapons in use: Law's Kikuko and Kaido's Hassaikai.

For Law's Kikuko I might buy it, since the name literally means "Oni's wail". You could go further by saying it might not involve Law per se, but a literal Oni's wail, either Kaido's or Yamato's.

Lastly, apprentice/chore boy might be the long awaited flashback on Kaido's past as an apprentice in the Rocks' Pirates or anything else... or nothing at all.

[acoustic helm]

The dochhi thing might be ,momo figuring out trajectory of onigashima

[mint prairie]

Those are my two cents. I would put my money on Become Oden and a potential Kaido flashback.

[acoustic helm]

The chapter can have mixture of all these things with random name

[mint prairie]

I don't think it might be Momo figuring out Onigashima's landfall because docchi is more about picking an option out of what's at hand (e.g. "Which way do I go?", "Which one is the right dragon?").

[gentle lily]

also where does it say that Kaido was an apprentice on Rocks? cause I forget where it was mentioned

[mint prairie]

Another example of docchi, is when Luffy wanted to pick one sword for Zoro when they met in Morgan's base. He asked himself "どっち？" ("Which one?") and ultimately brought Zoro the three swords Helmeppo had stored in his room.

[acoustic helm]

It was mentioned maybe during koido jump intro or rocks reveal

[acoustic helm]

I get it

[queen arrow]

it was in chapter 957 i believe

[acoustic helm]

@gentle lily

[fathom matrix]

Honestly, taking down Kaido might actually raise Luffy's bounty beyond his, even just a little bit. Law and Kidd being associates will raise significantly as well in the billions, but if failing an attempt of assinating a Yonko is enough to get 1.5 billion, then actually defeating one and disbanding their crew, aligning with 2 other pirate groups, and this is the yonko with the highest bountry still alive, then, Luffy's could get to 5 billion or at least 4.7 billion

Honestly, I still think it would be funny if Garp was still saying to Hina that Luffy's just a fledgling or isn't that big of a threat yet, she goes to pick up a transponder snail, gets a report and sits back down and says "your grandson's alliance took down Kaido and his crew, and now he's got a bountry over 4 million".

Maybe being higher than kaido's is a stretch and maybe too much, but I could see it at least being within 4 billion, or at least 3.5

[visual merlin]

he did a lot more than fail to assassinate Big mom though, he beat two commanders with 860 mil and 1 bil, and got credit for the plan and whatnot, and it only gets harder to increase your bounty as you go higher. Also, the fact that law, kidd, samurai, etc are there would take from the credit luffy gets

and imo it'd be weird for his final bounty increase to just be 600 million, in the case that he goes to 5 bil here

[fathom matrix]

I could see Luffy's bounty reasing 5 billion or 6 billion at the end of the story

either that or he dies.

But I doubt Oda and Toei would kill him off.

(I say Toei cause you know how much they love to extend properties to as much as they can, and you know they would want to have prime/older Luffy for a special or movie in the future)

[pure raven]

Cool black beard theory
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/614286635592450058/889184223502667816/image0.png

[little kelp]

agreed

[wary fossil]

isn't it implied that big mom ate her mom for her df

[grizzled fog]

Carmel wasn’t her mom, but yes that was extremely heavily implied

[wary fossil]

I'm more on the 3 in 1 blackbeard train

3 heads, 3 line scar on shanks, 3 days not sleeping during the golden era clash

[plucky reef]

Luffy won't lose again, it would just be boring and a waste of time if he did. even Kaido said " they'll need to see your head to give up and see me as a victor" and now Kaido just asked the kid if he still thinks he has a chance and Luffy replied with a menacing line" as long as I'm breathing there are way too many chances of beating and winning against you". Luffy will just get another booster this week's either split the heavens again or he infuse both Ruyo and CoC like in the opening to actually hurt Kaido. cause one way or another he has to win and now's that time we've been here for far too long.

[sharp vessel]

maybe the one who recieves the first fruit maybe has something like connection with the creator of devil fruits

[pure raven]

Could agree on that
If luffy d3feats kadio then his bounty could reach the same levl or near that

And one more thing relating to lastest chap i.e in this we see luffy and kaifo clash with kaido in hjs hybrid form(strongerst‽ ) and luffy normally without any gear

And luffy split clouds this way we can see more coming if luffy goes gear

[hoary ice]

do yall think this is the last kaido fight, i mean it would make sense and making ANOTHER brawl would just feel dragged out. I think right now with the 3 main pillars of this arc in their current best state should be able to finish kaido off or at least end this arc, right?

[pure raven]

Looking at the way all previous arcs fight ends

We see many minions getting down then sanji and zoro taking down no 1and 2 of the enemys force then we see luffy tske down the boss guy

And in the last chapter we see jack going down so we can expect king and queen falling down in another 3- 5? Chps()king and queen possibly voing down together)

and during that possibly other enmeys forcs will also go down possibly hawkine and fukorokujo

[hoary ice]

yeah, mostly all of kaido's forces have fallen, so it makes sense

[pure raven]

Even rogers bounty was 5 billion and dragon who is opposing wg bounty is unknown we can possibky guess how high can his bounty be only after we can vet to know revolutnaries bounty i.e dragon mainly

Bjt possible cant say for sure

[bitter kraken]

Luffys aim is not to abolish the world gov, that’s the Revos

[pure raven]

Nah he was treated as a seruous threat around 15 17 years back by wg and reeverie so we can only asusme tabt his bounty only inc after that

[bitter kraken]

I don’t think luffy is gonna rescue sabo if sabo needs it, if anything the Revos look after their own ya kno? They are trying to take out the world gov, so they have power

[pure raven]

I perosnally dont want to see maarineford 2.0

Well yeah possible next arc could be the last one big arc

[bitter kraken]

There’s a good chance that whatever is happening with sabo gets solved before luffy learns of it

[hoary ice]

you gotta consider the world government's budget here, sure they are heavy on the taxes but 10 bil on a rubber boy is a big oy vey

[pure raven]

Budget taxes

Sad life

[grizzled fog]

There’s really no chance of the wg actually having to pay out bounties that high anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. After a certain point tbe bounties are just hypetools

[languid quarry]

Another war arc when we just experience wano war

[pure raven]

WB did say there would be one as soon as someone finds the one piece

[languid quarry]

Idk how upcoming war will surpass Marineford

Marineford is so memorable because of death sequences specially.
Can oda write such sequences again?

[hoary ice]

i wonder if blackbeard was compensated for killing wb...

[languid quarry]

True but coc coating feel like it's can one shot almost anyone other than Admirals in marine

[lean pine]

Luffy doesn't have to fight anyone else except admirals and have a good fight

[vestal orbit]

hoping we get more actually competent vice admirals

the admiral candidates, tsuru, arguably john giant and onigumo

and ofc the ssg is a thing

[junior cape]

After the paramount war, and especially after dressrosa, it kinda feels like vice admirals are the paramecia class of the navy. Anyone in the ranks with decent power and strength can eventually be there, and they're all unique enough in their own ways, but very few of them stand out, just like paramecias.

[next swan]

Vice admirals are very forgettable

[past river]

paramecias don't stand out?

[junior cape]

They are all unique, and all have strengths and weaknesses, but very few of them are EXCEPTIONAL, is what I mean. Look at logias: every single one is incredibly strong, right off the bat. Look at zoans: they can be any animal, all of which with hybrid forms, and can even include legendary of mythical animals that never existed. But then look at paremecias: this is the dumping ground, everything else ends up here.

A good example of this is the soap-soap fruit. You can use it to manipulate soap. Not exceptional in terms of raw utility. Or perhaps the kilo-kilo fruit, which lets you amp your weight in kilos. Borderline useless in most situations. Or even the swim-swim fruit, which lets you swim in anything (besides water), again basically useless in most situations

Most paremecias are at the very least initially niche in function, and moderate in power, but very few are obviously worth having.

Of course, their broad scope allows for a wide variety of forms and functions, given the right user, to be sure.

To this end, many navy vice admirals are like that: unique, wide in scope/form, but ultimately not very special

[past river]

gravity, string, rubber, flower, paw, love, door, candy, weapon, ope, shadow, poison

the problem is that you evaluate devil fruits by their simple and straightforward power

and seemingly only that

loads of paramecia are standouts

[junior cape]

It only seems that way because only the strong make it on the Grand Line. The powers we see in the story are those who either clawed their way to the top, or were carried there by a stronger leader. The rest are killed off along the way.

[past river]

You're wrong for one but you're again just talking about raw straightforward strength

that is far far from the only metric for a devil fruit being stand out

Devil fruits don't disappear the come back

even if someone was killed with it the df would just return

[junior cape]

I never said it was, I acknowledged that a ton of powers are situationally super useful. It's just that in one piece, we dont usually get to see that aspect, and usually focus on their combat power. Same goes for naval officers in the story;we rarely get to see them outside of combat, so that's kinda all we have to base them on.

[worldly anvil]

The dfs are very powerful when strong people use them right

Let me phrase that better hmm

[supple anchor]

yeah paramecias are all over the place. in one hand out have WB's DF which might be the strongest fruit, in the other hand you have useless ones like Kinemon's which only have very specific uses. Paramecia have the widest variance in their effect, zoan and logia are much more predictable

[junior cape]

A power's strength comes from the versatility of its user.

[worldly anvil]

Pretty much yea

Gomu Gomu is pretty weak at first glance but Luffy train enough with the df to make it powerful

[junior cape]

Kanjuro's paint-paint fruit doesnt seem strong on paper, dude used it to fool his comrades for 20 years before stabbing them in the back, and killing 2 of them.

Kid's magnet-magnet fruit allows him to control magnetism on metal, not immediately helpful on the ocean, guy uses it to form scrap metal mechs to fight other pirates with.

[worldly anvil]

I feels like paramecia is the hardest one to train

[junior cape]

Oh yeah.

Paramecias are the class where, if you want to use it in a fight, its not immediately apparent what to do first. Logias, you turn liquid, and blow the joint up. Zoans, you turn beast or man beast, get the physical edge. Paramecias? It really depends on what you can do.

[lofty zenith]

Something I've been wondering regarding the parallels that oda likes to draw.
We saw shanks warning WB about BB when ace was chasing him. And in the end, WB was killed by BB.
We see shanks talking to gorosei warning about a certain pirate (mostly likely blackbeard). So what if gorosei never fights straw hats, but with BB pirates and gets killed by them?

We also know Xebec had a deep hatred for CD, and blackbeard is following his footsteps

[desert hatch]

some people think he was talking about kid cuz it was after they’re fight and blackbeard was already well known and given the yonko titlle

[lofty zenith]

I can't think of any reason why he would talk about Kidd.

Unless he has some connections to CD (his origins)

[desert hatch]

just saying some people think that

[desert hatch]

that would be lame

[lofty zenith]

I saw some theory before which says that Kidd has some royal bloodline

[desert hatch]

ye, just my opinion, don’t like it

[lofty zenith]

I'd like to assume it's BB. Which makes way more sense as he has done this before with WB too

[desert hatch]

i liked the idea of kidd tho cuz blackbeard was too predictable and the fact that he’s already a yonko means the govt takes him srsly

[lofty zenith]

I feel BB poses more of a threat to WG, enough for shanks to enter their HQ and warn them, rather than Kidd.

[desert hatch]

when he was talking to whitebeard he explicitly talked about blackbeard too so why not just say blackbeard

honestly, if i come up with a prediction on something right away i hope it doesn’t happen cuz that means everyone’s thinking it and it’s not super original and predictable

[lofty zenith]

It's okay to theorize stuff which sounds unlikely. Theories are fun to read, do not actually have to believe in them. Since the entire story is about freedom and being able to express what everyone wants to, why not do the same thing in fandom

[desert hatch]

idk what he could have even talked about for kidd but (in my head cannon) he was introduced as a parallel to luffy but if he was bad so hopefully he becomes more relevant too

very well could be blackbeard, i mean that’s what everyone thinks, just doesn’t make sense (to me) to not outright mention blackbeard

and one of the last things we know about shanks before the reverie is that he fought kidd

that’s the only ‘evidence’ i have, the rest is just what i think personally

[lofty zenith]

We might see a bit of flashback about kidd when he's fighting Big mom

Since he first invaded BM's territory and then went to Shanks

[desert hatch]

i hope he becomes relevant soon, he had a higher bounty than luffy when he was introduced and i know it’s cuz he’s more dangerous to civilians or watever but that’s still a hell of an intro

[pastel summit]

There is no universe in which drawing things to life is ever considered "not strong on paper" I think you just have a very weird conception about what is considered useful. It is an EXTREMELY useful ability, regardless of your drawing ability. Kanjuro when he was pretending to be shit at drawing still the fruit was pretty damn good. It only gets better when you can draw to life more complex things quickly and more competently.

[desert hatch]

as we saw it was good for spying too

the life like drawings i think are crazy too

[pastel summit]

Yeah. Would be a really powerful fruit for someone like Usopp, who has a creative mind + drawing skills.

[desert hatch]

also that ink cloud he made to rain ink seemed pretty affective

i don’t remember exactly in the manga but in the anime people were getting ripped to shreds

[pastel summit]

similar in the manga. He did manage to stop a whole fleet from attacking him with them

[desert hatch]

been too long, episode came out recently so it was fresh in my head, thanks

[modest skiff]

I think Kid uses his fruit to navigate without a log pose

[pure raven]

that would make a lot of sense

[sturdy hound]

do you mean as in sensing the magnetic fields of the islands using his fruit?

that would be cool, but idk if it's possible. would require some real mastery at least

[modest skiff]

Yeah, since he can create magnetic fields, and magnetic fields interact with each other, and he likely has some perception of the magnetic fields he creates (otherwise it’d be weird and difficult to control), I think he could basically use magnetic echolocation

Another possibility is that since he can sense his own magnetic fields he can just passively sense other magnetic fields too. And since we’ve been told the grand line has whacky and intense magnetic fields, it’s possible they are easier to sense

[spice heath]

My theory for today is... Kaido will lose control of Wano at the end of the arc. 🙂

[acoustic helm]

Proof?

[spice heath]

Proof: Trust me bro

[errant oxide]

My uncle works at Oda

[acoustic helm]

Btw fukurokujo ain't loyal to shogun, as he couldn't protect odens father...

[zinc iris]

he's loyal to the current shogun whoever it is

[acoustic helm]

What about former shogun, why didn't he protect him

[zinc iris]

as far as we know he just died of illness and orochi just cheated his way in as a successor

[acoustic helm]

Orochi was poisoning stuff and the fukuro didn't knew wow

[zinc iris]

well the fact is that it was never confirmed Orochi actually killed sukiyaki (even tho of course it's not something past him)

it's not different from Captain Kuro back at syrup village, Kaya's parents died for their own causes and Kuro just took advantage of that

even tho Kuro was of course a murderer that would have done that himself if necessary

[pine delta]

i think kidd is undetutilized, but barring oda putting in a "exploring new world" mini arc between fishman island and punk hazard i just don't see how he could've done him better.

[lucid shale]

I think odens father is the guy wearing the mask in town I forgot his name atm

[acoustic helm]

Hitetsu

Things is oden gave swords to toki and it's believe toki gave it to him, but he didn't need to hide himself, he could have met oden (if he is sukiyaki) and told orochis deception to everyone

[zinc iris]

the problem was that orochi's power was already consolidated at that point, with several daimyos just backing him as orochi
even after oden's sacrifice moving the people that recognized orochi as an usurper his rule was still mantained

[misty canopy]

daimyos did not back orochi

orochi lied about many thing including being like a "brother to oden"

[meager cedar]

zkk is happening lol

[zinc iris]

At that point they did, he was already an acting shogun for years

[misty canopy]

yes but they did not support him they were even questioning the decision by sukiyaki they simply followed his "wish"

[weary cliff]

I don't disagree with your main point. However, I think Orochi's rule by the execution was secured moreso by Kaido. Otherwise, the daimyo certainly could have withdrawn their support

[misty canopy]

kaido was what kept orochi in power

he systemically dismantled each daimyo one by one

[zinc iris]

However he managed to pull Kaido in in the first place because he was seen as a legitimate ruler by most of wano

[junior cape]

That would make sense

[trim trellis]

Ayy I gotta feeling

Shanks bout to pull up with the Grand Fleet u feel me?

[weary cliff]

That'd be a surprise given that ominous set up between Barto and the Red Hairs in the cover story

[weary cliff]

Okay I'm over it, too

[bitter kraken]

I thought Orochi used money to buy kaidos backing at first, and I don’t think he was too secure in his position since what was it 3 daiymo still opposed him after Odens execution one of them being of a famous bloodline but I can’t remember how many daiymo in total wano had so 3 out of how many prolly wasn’t much

[zinc iris]

He got Kaido's backing by giving him access to Wano in return

Kaido wanted to get the secret behind the poneglyphs but at the time he was not powerful enough to force his way in

[ancient vault]

we dont know that

[zinc iris]

I'm pretty sure there was something about trying to extort that from the kozuki

Also it's confirmed he knows he needs to read poneglyphs to become PK

[ancient vault]

it was about the scabbards and their potential knowledge about laugh tale thrpough oden

but they ended up knowing nothing

[zinc iris]

At the very least he wanted to take the red poneglyph

[bitter kraken]

So what was the money for? The old witch had Orochi hoard it? Or was that not in the manga? I might just be consuming the anime for the manga 🤦🏻‍♂️

[zinc iris]

That was to become shogun and buy approval to stay in power

[bitter kraken]

Gotcha, lol I thought it was to buy a backer aka kaido my bad

[zinc iris]

He basically had to buy his way into the shogun's court to then enact the fake succession

Also I'm almost sure the deal with Kaido was cut by higurashi

[bitter kraken]

I was always under the impression he got into the court by pretending to be cool with oden, had the old witch pretend to be oden and vouch for him. But now I think that might have just been in the anime 🤦🏻‍♂️

[ancient vault]

weapons trade

[ancient vault]

and this ig. In general. Gathering a massive following and army costs money which youre not gonna get out of somewhere random

[zinc iris]

Still Kaido was offered something else than gold

[ancient vault]

Parts from one of my theories:

Weird things the old hag did:

• Shes brushes her clan to the side not admitting she is a member of it as if its not her main priority
• She focuses on the fact that she was outside of wano
• Then we see Shikis face which most likely means she was a pirate (might be a reach but she has the same ideology as a pirate since her lttle speech mirrors doffys MF speech)
• Then she explains the plan to him. Money, Weapons and a massive backing army which is exacty what Ksido wanted snd exploited Orochi for

That massive backing army was a way for Kaido to enter Wano probably

[queen arrow]

money weapons and a pass to stay on the country

i imagine that both Higurashi and Kaido figured out Wano was important in some way, but i'm not sure if she specifically planned the take over with Kaido or if it could be any big pirate that got interested

since Orochi is so young here, this is probably before the God Valley incident

and to be honest Kaido is not the only one that would be interested in mass producing weapons

[queen arrow]

it seems that the discussion is steeming from this message so i'll just reply with the sequences of events as i perceived it, and with my interpretation of Orochi's maneuver

[ancient vault]

either kaido or rocks but I think it was Kaido

[queen arrow]

this happened while Kaido was an apprentice timeline wise

[ancient vault]

ik

I could imagine Kaido taking on Rocks plan

The plan is based on the idea of why wano is special probably. I dont think any big pirate really knows it

[queen arrow]

okay so, the Kurozumi faked Sukiyaki declaring Orochi as a temporary shogun, which them was approved by the Daimyos and he became Shogun, when that happened Orochi then immediately started producing weapons to bring Kaido and getting more money, he gets Kaido's support, at that point in time Orochi has no obligation to give the throne back to Oden since the Shogun didn't rule it, but since he became the Shogun with the approval of the Daimyos he's legally the Shogun, and no one can just go and kill Orochi to get a new Shogun because of the Barrier-Barrier Fruit and Kaido

as for Higuarashi, i believe that the main plan was to get revenge for the Kurozumi, and the pirate backer getting something out of it because of whatever other reason Wano is special besides the great craftsmen is just a plus