manga-theories

[proud tree]

so he send low lvl Barook agents

[velvet perch]

I mean crocus was the doctor on gol d rogers ship, so im sure he has some high level info

so i wouldnt disregard the theory completely, but it just seems unlikely to me that laboon actually is pluton

[queen arrow]

while that's true, that kinda argues against itself, i don't think Crocodile would send Vivi and Mr 9 after it considering that they're so low ranking, and the fact that Baroque Works doesn't solely work hunting Pluton since they're still Bounty Hunters

[light onyx]

The one piece is actually friendship and roger laughed and cried cuz he knew this treasure was trash and wished he could beat the shit out of joyboy(hence him saying he could live in the same era as joyboy)

[proud tree]

Mr. 9 is the 9th highest ranking male agent of Baroque works, an organization that has >1000 members ... so he is not that low ranking.

[silk rain]

Its also possible that Laboon isn't pluton now, but crocus may have prepared it for becoming pluton later

[velvet perch]

the comparison between mr 9 and the top like 6 is quite large

its the difference of no devil fruit vs devil fruit in a time without the concept of haki

[queen arrow]

he's not that low ranking, but he's still one of the lower ranking frontier agents, when Crocodile would probably have sent an officer agent for a job that crucial

[proud tree]

Spying and gathering information is the job of the lover level frontier agents. A few high ranking frontier agents cant search the whole globe in their lifetime. So you need larger numbers to increase your chances to stumble upon Pluton by chance, while still choosing one of many targets that are likely to have something hidden (like near a Crewmember of GolD Rogers Crew, who should have valuable information).

[silk rain]

We know that Oda planned laboon from the start, and that pluton is supposed to be a ship. However, Franky had blueprints for pluton, and the WG wasn't searching for a boat, so it hasn't been built yet. The whole purpose of the thousand sunny is to be the ship that can sail across the world without breaking, so I can't imagine that they switch ships later on. But it would be cool if Laboon plays a part in the final war, by becoming pluton considering his size is on par with zunesha and similar to the sea kings. The main problem with this is the Noah, which would be an evacuation ship for FMI or pluton itself in the future

Having Baroque works agents try to hunt laboon while their many goal is pluton could be some foreshadowing that we will look back on in the future 😂

[queen arrow]

but then that just discredits your theory, you said that they don't know Crocodile's true goals, and they where there just to kill the whale for food, so how would they report finding Pluton if they don't know that's what they're looking for?

[proud tree]

They would report if they find something unusual.

[queen arrow]

they didn't report anything about Laboon though

[proud tree]

bcs they got kicked out

[queen arrow]

if they needed to report something wouldn't they do it as soon as they arrived?

they got back to their headquarters completely fine

[proud tree]

what should they report? that they failed to kill a wale?

[queen arrow]

that the whale was partially mechanical? you said they would report if they found anything unusual

[dusky acorn]

Why do we think that mission from Ms. Wednesday and Mr. 9 was on Crocodiles orders in the first place though?

We're told it's for getting food for their village

[queen arrow]

snake theorized that Laboon is Pluton and that they where sent there to find it for Croc

[dusky acorn]

That would be very odd, because we also know that Laboon comes from a specific species of whale

So what would differentiate Labbon and make him special in this case

[proud tree]

I am not saying Laboon is pluton ... I am saying Crocus has hidden Pluton inside Laboon

[queen arrow]

My bad, but my counter points still stand

[proud tree]

Your counter point is: they did not report their findings? I mean the incompetence of Mr. 9 and Mr. 3 to report to crocodile was shown in the story...

[queen arrow]

at what point did Mr 3 forget to report something?

and if Mr 9 was incompetent why did Croc send him to find Pluton and not an officer agent

[proud tree]

Crocodile assumed Mr 3 killed the straw hats on little Garden

[queen arrow]

because Sanji fucking bamboozled him?

[proud tree]

becaue office agents are valuable and where searching somewhere else

all agents where searching in parallel

[queen arrow]

why where multiple frontier agents that are higher ranked than him just waiting on an island though

[proud tree]

what island? alabasta?

[queen arrow]

Whiskey Peak

[proud tree]

you mean Mr. Valentine and Mr ... 4?

[queen arrow]

Mr 4 never went to Whiskey Peak you're thinking of Mr 5

and not them, I'm talking frontier agents not officer agents

like Igaram, Mr. 8

[proud tree]

Why where they waiting there? Was it ever stated?

they could just have a break there until they continue their mission

[queen arrow]

because Whiskey Peak was their bounty hunting base, because Baroque Works is a bounty hunting group, they don't go around looking for Pluton in random places

the fact they're living there is why they went to hunt Laboon as a source of food

[supple ivy]

ayo just stumbled accross one of the best op theories ever

[proud tree]

And Mr. 9 was hunting whale as a bounty hunter ...

[queen arrow]

dude have you not read the arc

[proud tree]

Bounty hunting does not mean you ignore every unusual thing you see while getting around in the world?

[winter scroll]

is it about raftel?

[supple ivy]

no

i think yassop is god ussops dad. Wow shocker right, they are both the 4th in the crew and both snipers. they also look very similar . who agrees with this theory ???

[winter scroll]

bruh💀

[queen arrow]

that's the reason they where after Laboon

they actually even do send a report to Croc, but don't mention anything unusual about the whale because it wasn't relevant, meaning that if Croc sent them there to find something in the whale he did a real bad job in telling them that

i think that's enough holes poked in the theory

[proud tree]

This whole report system that Crocodile implemented in Baroque works shows that they are not just Bounty Hunters that make money for Crocodile. They also are his source of information/ his scouts.

[queen arrow]

you don't need to be a scout for your boss to demand reports on what you do

and that still doesn't solve any of the holes in the theory, not even counting they literally telling us why they where after Laboon

[proud tree]

If Crocodile only saw them as his money source they could just make money for him independently, without caring for their reports.

[queen arrow]

that's not how organizations work

and they're obviously not "just a money source", they're pawns that he can use for many things

it doesn't mean they where each individually hunting pluton on his behalf, specially since he himself in on the search for Pluton and found the only lead to it's location that exists

[modest skiff]

If I give Croc a little too much credit: If all he wanted was hints of information, the incredibly paranoid thing to do would be to send low level people first. If Croc's rivals know he's after Pluton, they may monitor his every movement as well as his top officers. But this is me trying to justify it

[queen arrow]

i'm saying that it's unlikely he sent people to find info about Pluton at all

since he already was at the end of the thread leading to it, and the main goal of the organization was getting it from Alabasta

[modest skiff]

Yes and I agree with that. I'm sort of playing devil's advocate. If we know the WG is obsessed with Pluton and we know they had intelligence officers all over the world, and they knew Croc wanted it too, they would be smart to have Croc 100% monitored as well as his high ranking officers. If we assume Croc thought of this, he would send his stooges instead

Note: I am not convinced Croc thought Pluton might be in laboon, just saying I can imagine a 4d chess move where he does exactly what he did to find pluton info if he was very paranoid

[queen arrow]

the World Goverment had no idea Baroque Works worked for Crocodile, or that BW was involved in criminal affairs at all

they where simply a bounty hunting group

[modest skiff]

Yes and I think all of that certainly does a good job making this theory improbable. But if I were the WG and I knew Croc were looking for Pluton, I would intentionally pretend to not know about the whole BW situation to allow him to use them to find Pluton, allowing them to track his intelligence/assassin network without him knowing they even knew the network existed.

This all assumes many layers of subterfuge and I am not convinced it is realistic. But I technically see a path to it being above 0% possible

[pseudo crest]

What if Blackbeard and his crew appear after kaido is defeated through the door door fruit that one of Blackbeard’s crew members have after they killed blueno for it

[forest rampart]

Blueno died?

[woeful zenith]

i don't think he did he was in a cover story

[modest skiff]

I thought BB hunted him down for his fruit

Status:
Alive

Guess I'm wrong according to wiki

[weary cliff]

Blueno has a very under-utilized fruit. I can see how you would think that, it's a good get for BB's crew

[forest rampart]

But does BB knows about Blueno n what kind of fruit he has?

[modest skiff]

When I first saw Blueno's fruit being used, my first thought was that it would be major at some point

[weary cliff]

We don't have any reason to assume so. He has some intel. Couldn't say if it would include CP9 members

[modest skiff]

If BB has a set of fruits he wants for his master plan, if the door-door fruit is among them, he will find it. He may simply not care or maybe didn't find it yet

[queen arrow]

firstly, that is #western-series spoilers i think, secondly, Roger was publicly executed in front of thousands of people, and he couldn't have faked his death there

[shell kettle]

Maybe he has a clone devil fruit 🤔

[weary cliff]

unfortunately, the variety of devil fruits makes a deception like this technically possible. Doesn't make it less terrible of an idea

[shell kettle]

Maybe his death was … greatly exaggerated 😂😂

[modest skiff]

Yeah if I'm being honest, I see no reason for a clone fruit to not exist. But that would essentially open up any possible theory to the point where its not worth thinking about

[limpid sequoia]

the clone clone fruit is the one the hag and bon chan had

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, don't spoil reveals and such of other stories when making theories @shell kettle

I'll repost it for you without the comparison

Theory: Roger is actually still alive and he lives on Raftell

[queen arrow]

there's a lot of those already in non-canon materials

[shell kettle]

Thank you

[modest skiff]

Well first of all, I don't think @shell kettle is being serious and I don't think we need to discuss it. But I suppose it is possible there is a fruit that allows someone to make a copy of themselves similar to Doffy making a string person but more real

[shell kettle]

I thought it was a fun idea

[modest skiff]

I think that when a theory requires a theoretical fruit we don't know exists, it kind of becomes more of a thought experiment. I am not sure if thought experiments are allowed in this channel since generally the requirement is for a theory to be "serious"

[weary cliff]

It would be a pretty major disservice to the story no matter how you spin it. Roger was already terminally ill. If he got over that and has been chilling, it doesn't give room for the new generation to shine. Especially Chopper

[queen arrow]

if they aren't being serious, then that's breaking channel rules

[modest skiff]

They said "fun idea", so I think that falls below the threshold, but I am not a mod, so I will let Shimon comment

[dusky acorn]

I've heard this specific theory genuinely coined multiple times before, with people going as far as bringing up the "I'm not going to die" quote from Roger. The fact that this user went as far as to think up a suitable comparison from another story tells me they did put some thought/serious intent into it, originally.

And some people do like to think the contrarian for all sorts of story details. I've brought up some things I don't fully believe in here before myself., just to see what kind of takes would spawn from it. As long as it's not being passed off as a complete joke with the purpose of trolling, it's fine

[modest skiff]

I don't remember Roger saying he's not going to die, but I am honestly a strong supporter of the idea that we should take character's words at face value, regardless of how strange or confusing that may be in a given moment

[queen arrow]

i got you fam

[dusky acorn]

Roger said it to Rayleigh and yeah, he was right. It's not meant to be taken from a literal perspective though, but the fact that his will would be carrying on to future generations

[queen arrow]

sorry for the Luffy panel above but this meme is the quickest way access i have for this line

[forest rampart]

I thought it's real for a second 😂

[queen arrow]

likewise Oden had similar last words

[queen arrow]

i mean both are real panels, the joke is that it's a Sanji/Rayleigh parallel

[forest rampart]

Yeah that's the only panel that confused me so

[modest skiff]

I think its possible Oden and Roger learned something about souls on their shared journey that made them have that perspective

[queen arrow]

no they're 100% being metaphorical

[modest skiff]

I think that's also possible

[weary cliff]

eh maybe they aren't

[forest rampart]

I would say that's just about inherited will Mohdoo

[modest skiff]

Right, that's kinda what I'm referring to, Cookies07. I think its possible that they learned inherited will is a bit more real than we currently understand.

I won't pretend I have any evidence or anything though, so I would not say I am ready to throw the Mohdoo sticker on it. But I smell something around that

But as you guys have learned by now, I squint at pretty much everything. I'm frustratingly paranoid, as @waxen dust has learned in our conversations

[proud tree]

in this arc we already saw Odens ghost in a way: Kanjuros drawing

[modest skiff]

My first sentence in this message sounded slightly condescending when I read it back to myself. Just want to be clear no condescension was implied or intended.

[forest rampart]

Well, Oden know the same things as Roger since both went to Laugh Tale. It could be that Oden was confident that someone will inherited his will, and there's some words in his journal about some big names will defeat Kaido 20 years in the future if he failed to kill Kaido by himself. Oden told the scabbards to open Wano's borders for Joyboy. It might has something to do with Joyboy. And it could be the same with Roger too in which is also about "Joyboy" (Luffy) will inherited his will.

[modest skiff]

Good points Cookies07. One thing that I just realized is that we know Roger/Oden knew about Poseiden, and if that is the case, they knew she'd show up at a later date. They may have learned more about the mechanism of how Shirahoshi would become Poseiden, and in doing so, realized their wills would continue to live on in a "real" way beyond their legacy and that kinda thing

[forest rampart]

Talked about Poseidon, I wanted to share some interesting ideas I just came up with about the real purpose behind those ancient weapons. Some people came up with the idea that Luffy's real dream is to hold the biggest party in the world. In the picture that Robin imagined Zunesha's look, there's a rainbow over the elephant when he sprayed seawater out of his trunk. I already said his many times but I'm sure that Zunesha is the Uranus (or Momo is the Uranus). My idea is that when Luffy hold his biggest party at Laugh Tale, Zunesha will spray the water to make a rainbow for the party. Pluton's real purpose is to be used as a firework "container" (to shot some fireworks). Poseidon can summon sea kings. She can asked the sea kings to bring/escort Luffy's friends from different places all over the world to the party.

And maybe that's why Roger laughed

[proud tree]

That would also be quite dark .. bcs the villains of the storys want to commit crimes with them .... while they where intended to be party devices.

[modest skiff]

The sea kings just being transportation devices seems a bit too stretchy. Doesn't really explain why Zunesha is being punished. Pluton also doesn't quite fit with the whole "lets have a party" theme. Overall I am deeply skeptical of all of the party-themed theories

[surreal oriole]

Yeah i like that idea, at least whatever they are was not meant to be used as a weapon but had the potential to be used as one

[forest rampart]

Glad that you like it

[forest rampart]

Yea the sea kings part is quite stretchy, but sea kings are the ones that will pull Noah Ark when FMI is destroyed. You're right about Pluton doesn't fit the theme since it's a warship. It just steam from the idea that Usopp is very creative when it comes to this thing. He told Chopper to put Miss MerryChristmas into the Dachshund cannon instead of tennis balls. Zunesha's punishment might has smth to do with Marijoa, like he allowed/let those CDs to climb him to the top of Marijoa but I'm not quite sure for this part.
Anyway, I dont think that's all the real purpose behind their existence given that those weapons could do plenty of things.

Also I want to talk about what Pluton has destroyed in the past.

Lets imagine that's the red line of the reverse mountain. The red dots are some areas that could be destroyed by Pluton's cannonballs.

The red area is Laugh Tale.
It's a stretch since we lack info about the Reverse Mountain. But I think the reason why that LT side of RM is like that is because of Pluton.

So I think that I was wrong about LT is in ruins since those cannonballs can't even reach the top of RL.

[weary cobalt]

If it's a island it can't be in middle of the red line.

[dusky acorn]

In this case, the theory isn't going off an in-story basing which is unideal

I get the appeal behind wanting Kid to be a D. since people can see him being tied into the Celestial Dragon overturn down the line, but being a D. isn't at all the only way to ingrain his character deeper into them. Bonney is a good example of this

And we know for a fact his current name isn't like what 'Gold Roger's' was. His real name isn't Ki . D or anything lol. He's fine with being called what his current first name is by Killer

But yeah, Oda can think up any backstory to explain his motivations and why he'd be sewn into the thread of toppling CDs, having the initial is unnecessary

[weary cobalt]

Not everyone has to be a D

[cunning topaz]

maybe

[forest rampart]

Kidd could be a CD instead, like how it is with Doflamingo - he also wanted to destroy those CDs (isnt he?)

[cunning topaz]

it would be cool though

[weary cobalt]

Can't speak for anyone but I don't think so.

Law is good enough for the surprise factor because no one saw it coming

[cunning topaz]

sure but who expects 3 d's?

[weary cobalt]

I like the idea that he is Captain's John's son better because of the emphasis on his "Captain" epithet. I always found that odd

[cunning topaz]

maybe, but we'll have to wait on oda and see

[junior cape]

Brook is 8'9", Kin'e'mon is as tall as Brook, Kin is at least 8'9". Based on the fact that Oden was taller than Kin, Oden must be about 10 feet tall.

[proud tree]

Plutons canon balls cant damage the top of the red line?

[junior cape]

I find that hard to believe. Pluton can eliminate entire ISLANDS with one shot. We know the Red Line can be carved, so it's not invulnerable. At worst, Pluton would leave a hole in the RL.

[forest rampart]

They can if Pluton can reach to the top but I'm not sure if Pluton can reach to top or not. Or rather that I dont think that Pluton can manage to get to the top given if the enemy has taken control of the ship then

I mean, I dont think that those people of LT/AK would allow those enemies to get to the top then

[proud tree]

The structure of reverse mountain looks like there are cracks inside the red line? Like there was some damage dealt to the red line at reverse mountain...

[junior cape]

Erosion caused by the weather and waves. The canals were fabricated though.

Or cannons

[proud tree]

oh I thought you meant that the AK attacked their Enemys who lived on top of the red line ... but you thought the reverse

[forest rampart]

I dont think it was caused by erosion by weather or waves since the second half of red line is pretty much in shape

[forest rampart]

yeah

[pure raven]

talking about the reverse mountain does someone have a theory that explains how does that work?

[forest rampart]

Lets me explain again in case someone still confused.
The image of the red line of Marijoa is a substitute for the RL of RM aka Laugh Tale/AK.
I think that Alabasta betrayed AK and joined the enemy's side. The enemies intended to destroy the AK or that they wanted to destroy that LT "island" if not RM itself. Maybe AK realised the betrayal, and the intention of their enemies thus has block the way for Pluton to get to the top/the Kingdom itself. Or that the enemies intended to destroy the RL of RM.

[proud tree]

there are many weird locations... but Reverse mountain and Eniese Lobby seem connected.. bcs water flows away under enies lobby in a giant black hole. .. and water flows out of reverse mountain ...

[forest rampart]

So whether those enemies cant get to the top or that they intended to destroy the RL/RM itself, the damage Pluton did to that part/side of RL give it the shape it has now that looks like as if some part of it was destroyed.

[pure raven]

i would say thats a good view

[pure raven]

i dont how i feel about those ideas for sure, but if i would something about the red line or at least the grand line... is that the Continent pullers have something to do with its existance

[forest rampart]

While it's possible that is the case, it would take a long time to build such a long pipe that would cover half of the world itself.

[pure raven]

maybe that is the reason why oda is leaving elbaf to the end too

[forest rampart]

Yea Elbaf arc could have some explanation about Oars.

[strong flame]

Guys do u think u can only awaken devil fruit if u have conquerors?

[proud tree]

the only one who has awakening confirmed in the story ... was Doffy who had conquerors ... so its 50% probable

[strong flame]

Also katakuri

[pine delta]

What if the D stands for a literal D

As in 😄

When a child is born smiling they are given the D name

[surreal oriole]

I thought the Zoans in impel down were awakened

[pine delta]

Actually no that makes no sense

[strong flame]

Yeah but they don’t have a consciousness

They got “conquered” the awakening

They couldn’t handle the awakening because their haki was lacking

So their brains got fried

[pine delta]

I mean I guess it makes sense. Consider me sold

Also explains why it’s so rare

Can’t believe doflmingo showed off awakening like 300 chapters ago

[strong flame]

It kinda balances things out tho cuz if it didn’t take some kind of toll then Blackbeard could awaken multiple fruits and that would be fukin terrifying

Unless he has some crazyyyy conquerors he shouldn’t be able to awaken multiple

But we also don’t know where Tf this mf came from and what Tf is in his body

[fossil frost]

Blackbeard likely awakened WB’s devil fruit by now

& his own as well, plus he’s had it for a while now

Blackbeard is pretty broken ngl

[proud tree]

probably can only defeat him with haki

[pure raven]

i like the theory that zoro will aquire sky walk and sanji will aquire tempest kick to put them on similar playing fields

making up for zoro's lack of mobility and sanji's lack of range

[modest skiff]

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by this

[fossil frost]

yeah most likely

[modest skiff]

We don't know pluton used canon balls. I still think it used a water canon with power similar to the upstream

[exotic echo]

that'd be pretty cool, actually. had not thought of that, would actually explain perfectly how it can be so destructive to an island while still being ancient tech

[modest skiff]

There are a few different places in the world that appear to bring water up through some mechanism and then distribute it down. Wano is an example of this. Wano has some intrinsic ability to drag water up and create a water fall down. This has been seen a few other places. Enies lobby is another example of the fact that water has a current not only "sideways" but also up/down. Water7 appears to be an attempt to recreate this dynamic in a man-made way

[modest skiff]

If I may elaborate a bit, I think Pluton is able to be stored under water and potentially functions under water. I also think the gaon canon is an extremely crude version of whatever mechanisms pluton uses to generate extreme energy. But I am more shaky on those elaborations. I feel relatively confident it uses an extreme water canon though

[pure raven]

hello

[exotic echo]

it's a pretty wild assumption all things considered, there's not really too much to go off of. but the idea of it is very appealing & would make sense as an "island destroying weapon"

[modest skiff]

Not denying it is a smidge wild, but I do think we have been given hints throughout the story. I think the gaon canon and the upstream represent clues how a ship could generate island busting potential. But you are right that I don't exactly have evidence to present.

[exotic echo]

yeah, it's stuff you would have to connect to that on your own rather than something we can definitively construe as evidence. but regardless, it's a sick idea

[modest skiff]

If I may offer my slightly different perspective: I think the Nefertari family was deceived and manipulated into betraying the AK. I think when they realized what they did, they could not let themselves live in Marie Jois.

I think the Nefertari maintained their reverence for what I assume to be a collection of 8 groups/nations/islands/planets (heck if I know which one, but important to note there appears to be 8 total celestial objects that orbited the One Piece planet) because when they realized what they did, they were on the right side to begin with. That's why they kept the 8 symbolism and remained on their island

[ancient vault]

dont know who it was but they said it could be a haki canon

[exotic echo]

That'd be something else

[ancient vault]

Would make more sense tbh. Tho water also adresses the amo pronlem

[modest skiff]

I will jump off a cliff if its a haki canon

I will just say I disagree with that prediction

[ancient vault]

The argumenta were just

• It needs one wielder like shirahoshi ig
• ancient weapons resemble haki types (poseiden: Conq, pluton: aemanent, uranus: observation)
• Amo? If its just canon balls or something its an finite amount of shots

[modest skiff]

The only assumption I think is reasonable is the last one

[neon shoal]

Considering buggy know four red polygraph lead to Raftel and know all location of red polygraph, I have to say buggy is man closest to the one piece

[tiny forum]

[queen arrow]

Buggy probably doesn't know much about that, the Roger pirates' meetings about it where done away from the kids

[pure raven]

And the fmi one was moved wasn’t it

[queen arrow]

and Buggy is probably the person in the world that's the least interested in the one piece

[tiny forum]

Yep

[pure raven]

will ryuma's human form ever be revealed?

[queen arrow]

wdym revealed

[thick sky]

I think they mean if his face would be shown in a backstoryt/flashback or smth

Like what we have seem is just the moving corpse without face in thriller bark

[amber oar]

the closest would be his Monsters appearance... Monsters isn't really canon though. But looking at his zombie his human form probably isn't much different.

[unborn kayak]

does anyone know where oden's jouenal is currently

[ancient vault]

With momo/shinobu

[ancient vault]

it probably will be soon in a flashback if we get one

[stuck ore]

yeah but no one can read it I think

[ancient vault]

why?

[gentle knot]

ryuma defo releated to zoro

[stuck ore]

maybe iit is written in ancient language

[ancient vault]

Oden didnt qrite it ik poneglyph langauge. Everyone can read it. Yamato already read it and so did momo

[stuck ore]

oh okay

well it better have some secrets about ancient weapons

[gentle knot]

nami is a ancient weapon

[stuck ore]

nah she is a modern weapon

[gentle knot]

no she’s gonna be weather goddess

there’s a huge foreshadowing to it

shall i send

[stuck ore]

the third weapon is gonna be prolly a weapon rather than being another human

[gentle knot]

she’s the only one who control it or she is it

[stuck ore]

that can be true

[charred wharf]

Wonna know why buggy cannot reach one piece? Because HE IS THE LAST ROAD PONEGLYPH

[gentle knot]

shanks probaly has the last red longingly hat

[charred wharf]

Nah it would destroy the hype of the last poneglyph

[gentle knot]

or it’s in mariejois secret treasure

[charred wharf]

I think no

The last poneglyph will most likely be "reachable" if it was in mariejois it wouldn't be accessible

[gentle knot]

bro

[charred wharf]

Yea?

[gentle knot]

makes it way more interesting then one of the crew will die if they try seize it from there and luffy will be emperors level and zoro sanji will he op af

they can hold them self against admirals

[charred wharf]

Yes I agree but it would be more like retrieving the poneglyph, what I would love is finding the last road poneglyph

[gentle knot]

no it wouldn’t

the last one is in mariejois

[charred wharf]

Like nami's navigation skills to actually find the poneglyph, using other members strength to access it

[gentle knot]

sabo will tell luffy what he see after he’s been saved after being captured

[charred wharf]

Nami is an un-used resource, she is one of the best navigators in the whole world surely she can do some coordinates and stuff

[gentle knot]

also one of straw hats could be trusties

traitors sounds wild but best plot twist and one of them could die at it

they could be giving info to bb about poneglyphs hence he’s making his move

[daring sequoia]

That's crazy lmao. Traitors from SH? oh god, I dont want to think about it

[modest skiff]

Oda doesn’t need emotional cheese like a traitor to make a compelling story. It’s not impossible but in general things like a traitor are a crutch for shitty writing. Not necessary for Oda

[slim moat]

It's low effort theory.

[pine delta]

Buggy being the final ponyglyph would make me bust

It’s in his red nose all along

Wait is this actually a good theory

[modest skiff]

Channel description:

SERIOUS THEORIES only. Messages that break this rule will get punished. Slow-mode is enabled to promote lengthy discussions and discourage shitposting.

[light onyx]

That would be genius actually

[nova lark]

Lol

[modest skiff]

There are non-serious channels. There is no incentive to post silly things in this channel when you could instead post them in the more light hearted channels. That's the entire purpose of creating different channels

[light onyx]

I mean it’s kinda weird he was born with a red nose ?

[pine delta]

To elaborate on that, Oda is known for a penchant of gags that become plot relevant. Duval being the biggest example. With one piece originally planned to be a much shorter series, it stands to reason that a lot of early details would have greater importance than it would seem given the time we’ve spent since. This can be seen with buggy becoming so relevant in impel down, Jim be only appearing in the stories 3+ massive arcs in despite being mentioned by Arlong.

Similarly the one piece is probably related to gaimon’s tale.

The color red is pretty symbolic in one piece overall, and even early on: red hair shanks and red nose buggy, crew mates, brothers almost, both introduced very early on.

Both are expected to be relevant in the late game we are currently in

[supple nimbus]

For what good joy?

[light onyx]

Do you think buggy was abandoned for his red nose and taken by roger ? Hence why he is so sensitive about his red nose

[pine delta]

Honestly, even past that, the fact buggy is so angry when someone mentions his red nose and his closest relation being red haired shanks makes the theory of them being brothers even more standout. Especially if buggy is perhaps ashamed or angry at his heritage. It connects with the theory of shanks being the son of rocks

Shanks entrusts buggy with his hat. That’s an insane amount of trust even if you worked on a ship together 20+ years ago

(At marine Ford)

Buggy is also currently on the run and looking for an ally as he is forcibly returned into pirating by the WG, perfect time to reintroduce to the story

[light onyx]

Good theory !

[pine delta]

This also would be a good explanation for buggy insane self confidence, he literally has 1/4 of the one piece with him at the start of the series

[light onyx]

Do you think buggy is putting up a weak person act?

[pine delta]

No I think he’s just dumb. Would be a nice twist to have a strong person with a weak son, would be a first in this series besides wapol. All other families in this series are almost Naruto levels of bloodline importance

[light onyx]

I hope buggy trains to become stronger it would be pretty nice to see him as somebody strong

[supple nimbus]

Shanks is mostly inspired by Tyr, a Norse God. Tyr had his hand bit off, by a wolf. He also is said to have been eaten by a beast called Garmr, who's equated always to Cerberus, the three-headed guardian of the underworld, during Ragnorak.

I'm certainly not the first one to point this out but, whoo boy, this just adds to the BB kills Shanks theory....

[stuck ore]

yes bb kills shanks and sabo has already died at revirie, perfect plan to give luffy life long depression.

[unreal merlin]

[stuck ore]

D.Clan got its name after defeating lunaria tribe or the god tribe

prolly

[forest rampart]

Yea I made it simple and didn't elaborate it but we have the same exact thoughts.

[proven copper]

Is there any source or comment that Luffy will not take down Kaido through 1v1? Mann, I hope Kidd joins Luffy beat Kaido. I don't want Kidd to defeat Big Mom, because in the first place he has to make sure that Kaido will be beaten in his own hands.

[forest rampart]

"If it's 1 vs 1, always bet on Kaido".

[proven copper]

Truee! It's not that I hate Luffy beating Kaido in 1v1. I just wanted someone to be at Luffy's side when fighting Kaido. I'm good with any characters, I just don't want it to become a 1v1 fight in the end.

[forest rampart]

Yamato (if she's still standing when Luffy arrives on rooftop), Momo (I don't think he can help much other than brings Luffy to rooftop but we'll see), Zoro (he has to fight Kaido), Marco (probably wont help Luffy fight Kaido), they can help Luffy fight Kaido.

[supple ivy]

this theory about imu

imu being the creator of df or something like that, imu backwards(umi) mean sea, which is the weakness of the df's and im backwards (mi) means fruit and it also means SEED. Doffy states that he knows the weapon of marejois so what if the secret is the source to all devil fruits

[forest rampart]

Forget my previous idea. Pluton is said to destroyed an island with a blast of it. So it has to be a blast from cannonball, not a few blasts of it.
The red area is LT/AK. I used two different maps there for comparison purpose. The top maps suggest the condition of AK before Pluton destroyed it, and the bottom maps show the condition of AK after Pluton destroyed it aka the current condition of AK. It is either that AK lost a big area of its land or a small amount of its land from the blast of Pluton.

The kingdom is safe. It's still there as seen in Crocus and Inuarashi's panels. Crocus did go to LT afterall.

If this theory about the island that Pluton destroyed was the AK/LT, and the theory about the destruction of Marijoa's RL will come true, it will create another parallel between the two places.

For why I don't think that the island was Jaya/Skypiea itself even there's some evidence given by Robin, I think that the blast of Pluton would damage the forest on that island. Since the forests (both on Jaya and Skypiea) are still there even from 400 yrs ago (Norland Montblanc's fb), and since it requires a quite long time for trees to grow (I'll use 50 yrs here), I don't think that those war was a result from the battle with a warship but rather a war with humans on the land itself.

[supple ivy]

it would just be an embarrassment to red hat and roger because buggy aint even as strong most of his crew members and the only reason why hes respected by his crew is because of who he knows. and not once have we seen him use haki. hopefully by like the next war buggy is there and is able to somehow utilise it

[supple ivy]

this does look convincing

[forest rampart]

Thanks ^_^

[supple ivy]

imu's name also means, to avoid and to refrain from.

[pure raven]

kaido will probably face a shameful defeat, no way is luffy killing him. Giving kaido the one thing he wants

[pure raven]

if sabo died that would be a huge bruh moment

doffy went through all that trouble to find the mera mera and now its back in the wild 🗿

[tall latch]

nah he's going to constantly stay as a weak character

[winter heron]

There's an inverse relationship between nose size and strength in one piece 😆

[ancient vault]

A canon ball makes no sense tbh. It should be infinite amor. Whether its a haki canon or like some water type of blast like mohodoo proposed. But not just canon balls

[ancient vault]

but youre assuming the WG used pluton right?

As far as we know one of the three is already against the WG

And was on joyboys side. So the others shouldve been on his side too. So why would he blast away the AK

[forest rampart]

Who are those three?

[ancient vault]

the three ancient weapons

[forest rampart]

oh

[gentle knot]

nah luffy needs to be kaido in 1v1

to become pirate king no help shit

[wicked charm]

so if he beats kaido with help, you dont think hes gonna be pirate king?

[forest rampart]

i don't want to assume what kind of ammo Pluton used but the idea of why it requires only a blast of Pluton to destroy the island is because of Crocodile's words.

"プルトン"。 "一発放てば島一つを跡形もなく消し飛ばすと聞く..., Crocodile.
"Pluton." "One shot of it can wipe out an entire island without leaving a trace." (DeepL translation)
[Official translation if anyone wants to make a comparison: "Pluton." "One shot of it can vaporize an entire island to smithereens." (Viz).]

And yes, i assume that WG, or rather the 20 kingdoms used Pluton to destroy the AK/LT in the past.
Yes, Poseidon is on Luffy's side. And yes, Uranus, which i assume is Momo or Zunesha, will be on Luffy's side. And Pluton from Alabasta will also be on Luffy's side.

For the reason why Pluton, which has its name written on the poneglyph of Alabasta (,in which the all poneglyphs belonged to the AK as said by Clover), destroyed AK itself in the past, was because of the betrayal of Alabasta to WG in the past. Alabasta was deceived by WG (imu and/or gorosei), thus was why the country is a part of 20 kingdoms that formed the WG. And it also explains why Alabasta refused to lived on Marijoa with other CDs, because they realised that they've been deceived by those WG. And they felt guilty to AK.

I think that Pluton was gifted by AK to Alabasta as its allied country, or maybe a close friend. So Alabasta has Pluton since long ago, maybe around 900 yrs in the past or way earlier than that. But then when WG has successfully deceived Alabasta, the country decided to allied with WG instead and help WG to destroy the AK by using Pluton.

About what kind of lie did WG told Alabasta, it could simply be about the danger of ancient weapons possess in which the real purpose of those weapons might be not harmful to others, not to be used to destroy the world.

So you assume that Joyboy owned the AK, thus those weapons right? But i dont think that the AK was Joyboy's.

[ancient vault]

no im saying that requiring real amo, like a material that needs to be created like a canon ball sounds dumb to me. A couple shots and that entire ship is useless afterwards

Since it has to have special amo which I doubt can be massproduced

[fathom matrix]

here's a dumb but possible idea.

what if the person who's under hawkin's effect can harm him?

Like, Hawkins can't be harmed by other people when his voodoo dolls are still still active, but it the person that's under that effect attacks hawkins, they won't recieve the damage?

[dusky acorn]

I actually thought the same exact thing, it'd be an interesting but balanced weakness for his power. It'd give an explanation for why Hawkins didn't just try taking Kaido's life back at the alliance, and why victory at the time was flat out 0%

Most others seem to think it's just due to Kaido being a haki monster that it negates his life binding voodoo power from working though

[fathom matrix]

Maybe that's why Hawkins might be wary of encountering kidd and yeah, like you said with Kaido, cause he thinks "shit, if he finds me and I'm on my last life, I can't win, I will die"

[fathom matrix]

it would be a sense of irony, that the only exception, is the person you made into a voodoo life.

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, it'd also add a ton of logic behind this quote if his power had that weakness. If Kid could still freely harm him with no self-damage, then Hawkins would indeed handedly lose that fight, even without Killer having to help

Oh

[fathom matrix]

Man, that spitball I threw might really have some weight

[dusky acorn]

It'd also explain why Hawkins isn't just making a voodoo doll out of Killer to make this fight even more tough for him lol

Y'know, I really do like this idea, it has some merit given these context clues

[fathom matrix]

there is 1 thing I am curious about, and that's HOW Hawkins does it

is it blood? Like, maybe with Kaido it's impossible because he can't puncture him, but Kidd, Killer, Luffy, and everyone's been spewing blood

Or maybe it's hair, cause I think is a well known use of when making voodoo dolls

[dusky acorn]

Blood also can make sense. It's another easy explanation as to why Hawkins couldn't acquire whatever it is that he needs to make dolls out of Kaido, since people like him literally can't make him bleed

[fathom matrix]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hawkins collected hair samples to use.

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, and again, there's blood EVERYWHERE

[dusky acorn]

Y'know, Kid did shed a bit of blood back at the live floor because of Apoo. It's a bit roundabout, but Hawkins could have went there to get that to prepare for this fight, and that's when he made the doll offscreen

[fathom matrix]

Hell, maybe if Hawkins survives and decides "fine, carry on with this rebellion" BUT he finds out that Zoro and Luffy had been able to damage Kaido and make him bleed, so he say if he can provide him with a sample of blood, any amount, he can make a doll for Kaido, making it easier for them to take him down

[dusky acorn]

Or maybe just after his first loss to Kaido he kept some blood/dna of him handy

[fathom matrix]

issue there is, I doubt kaido would have bled at all during that fight

[dusky acorn]

Oh, I meant for Kid

[fathom matrix]

AH OK, makes sense

I see. Yet again, there's the prison, and he would have been beaten to a pulp and surely blood would spew

[dusky acorn]

If making a doll out of Kaido would be possible, I might have expected it if Hawkins were to turn, but on the other hand it sort of would make things too easy

[fathom matrix]

yeah

[modest skiff]

I'm on board @fathom matrix , you now have a place in my headcanon

[fathom matrix]

I think if he found that Kaido beld, he would go and get some blood, make a doll, and help give them an edge.

stabs himself in the heart, and due to a size difference and durability factor, it wouldn't kill kaido, but it'd do significant internal damage, giving luffy and/or zoro an edge

[queen arrow]

wouldn't a Kaido doll make Hawkins basically invincible

[modest skiff]

I don't think damaging a doll is the only way to damage hawkins, you can still just punch him in the face and he'll take damage

[queen arrow]

if you punch Hawkins in the face the damage is transfered

[modest skiff]

Its that damage he takes will also go to whoever he has a doll of, I thought its an ADDITIONAL thing, but the dolls will absorb a death

[queen arrow]

when he has extra lives he doesn't take damage

[modest skiff]

Maybe I am misunderstanding though. And I also buy into the idea that Hawkins power is blocked the same way as Law's, just buff ass haki

[queen arrow]

it's like separate life bars

[modest skiff]

interesting, god i hate hawkins so much. I thought it was like "sure you'll kill me, but you'll kill them too". I thought its just that in Law's crew's case, the damage to kill his crew was a lot less than Hawkins, so Hawkins could take some damage, Law's crew dudes die or something, but Hawkins survives. Thanks for the clarification

Its like I hate Hawkins so much I physically blocked any understanding of his power from my brain xD

[queen arrow]

that's why Kizaru had to shoot him multiple times

[modest skiff]

nod makes sense

[twin void]

BM & King gonna betray kaido : theory

[fathom matrix]

BM, yeah, I see that. King? Nah

[twin void]

BM needs a member of King's race in her crew

and we really dont know just how loyal King is imo

[fathom matrix]

yeah, she wants him, but that doesn't mean King has to follow through. Plus, he seems loyal to the beast pirates, and remember how he was willing to sink her ship and didn't want to join?

[twin void]

Of course i remember, but peoples minds can be changed, especially if most of your crew is getting taken out and theres another yonko(who is also technically an ally rn) you could fall back onto

[fathom matrix]

I don't see that being King's personality. I don't think he would, but I'd honestly buy it more with Queen, being that he's a scientist and would maybe betray a pirate group if the other one had better tech and resources.

[twin void]

I feel like we don't know enough about King's personality to say that, but thats just my opinion

I think someone important in the Beast pirates is gonna betray or defect to BM pirates

[fathom matrix]

That's fair, but I recall him punishing traitors in the previous chapter, and being an all star I think he would for def stick with kaido.

Also, I can see grunts buggering off to BM's side, but IDK what king would get out of it

[twin void]

mainly just to survive imo, especially if he's truly the last of his race or the last clone or whatever

[waxen dust]

King not leaving Kaido’s side, but if I would be curious to see what would happen to the crew if Kaido actually dies

[twin void]

the amount of ppl who think King is never gonna leave Kaido is half of what makes me believe King is the one thats gonna betray him lol. we love our surprises

[fathom matrix]

I think all the smile users would follow tama and repopulate her destroyed village, maybe becoming a dimyo herself

[twin void]

tbh that would be cool

[proud tree]

otama will continue the Orochi Bloodline

[waxen dust]

Nah King is all in for Kaido, he doesn’t have any ulterior motives that would suggest otherwise. King has been the one of top of every situation since the Raid, the man’s been coming in clutch by taking charge while Kaido has been fighting

[twin void]

yeah, he's been extremely helpful to Kaido which would make him have lots of trust, and less thoughts that King would ever have ulterior motives/possible betrayal. Also we dont know almost anything about King yet

[waxen dust]

Red Line lore, especially if he takes off the costume

[fathom matrix]

What if Uransu is an item?

They're ancient weapons, but what if it goes as followed.

Pluton's an actual battleship

Posiden's a living being that controls seakings

Uranus is an item that can be held in your hand

[waxen dust]

Yeah I can see Tama and Hitetsu running a New Amigasa village will all the Smile Users. I like this alot, originally thought she would stay in the capital but this actually is more meaningful especially since it’s where they weave hats. Now they’ll weave Luffy straw hats for all of Wano.

[twin void]

Usopp gonna find Uranus on Elbaf : theory

[waxen dust]

Uranus is weather related

[fathom matrix]

an item that can control the whether?

[fathom matrix]

plus, they're not gonna have anywhere to go, and they might be seen as devils and freaks, so relocate them to an abandoned forest for them to thrive in

[waxen dust]

Idk about an item (I have a theory), but an item can be possible as well. Uranus is definitely about controlling the weather and all the weather related phenomenas we’ve seen throughout the story.

[proud tree]

how are you so sure that Uranus is weather related?

[fathom matrix]

it could be like a wind up toy or a gear/dial based piece of tech, where you click and mess with weather.

OH, WHAT IF THE ISLANDS OF ONE PIECE ARE STUCK THE WAY THEY ARE, BECAUSE OF URANUS?

Like, if you slightly shift 1 gear or 1 dial, every summer island becomes a spring island, alabasta starts to rain, and normal seasons would be shifted in dates

[sand sail]

That wouldn't make too much sense based on the information we have currently

It's an interesting proposition, but we're told islands are the way they are because they're a self contained phenomenon basically

[waxen dust]

Chapter 0:
Roger had an Ancient Weapon.
-Poseidon wasn’t born
-Pluton needed to be revived and Tom was likely not gonna build it as Oro Jackson
Thus leaves us with Uranus and the only phenomenon we’ve witnessed during this battle was the weather “attacking” Shiki’s fleet.

[sand sail]

Roger didn't have an ancient weapon, he just had some weapon

[waxen dust]

yeah an ancient weapon; what else would it be referencing to if not an Ancient weapon? lol

[sand sail]

Well, he didn't have it, but apparently knew how to get it

The weather bit wasn't from anything Roger did at all, that was sheer luck

[sand sail]

Any kind of super weapon out there, not everything that can cause lots of damage is one of those three lol

[proud tree]

All the yonko seem to change the weather in their presence... When Kaido attacked the flower capital there was a sudden change of weather, thick clouds. When Big Mom was angered by Luffy there where huge storms summoned by her Homies (parts of her own soul) ... Making the sky split is also a form of changing the weather.

So it would not be surprising if Roger had the same

[waxen dust]

there’s no super weapons besides the ancient ones. It’s most definitely Uranus at work here especially when it directly targets the opposing fleet

[sand sail]

Yes there are. Most of them devil fruits, there are also the Pacifista and contraptions like the Gaon Cannon

The ancient weapons are some of if not the most powerful, they're far from the only world affecting powers out there

[waxen dust]

Yeah but this storm was a different magnitude and the Yonko’s weather is different since their presence alone doesn’t cause weather to attack people. Big Mom uses her fruit for that

[sand sail]

It also didn't directly target the fleet, it just raged around them

It was a storm of pure luck, Roger didn't cause it

[waxen dust]

okay sure, you say luck. I say Uranus.
We’re gonna disagree on this one fir sure

[proud tree]

Enel was able to change the weather and attack with it too ... and he did not need Poseidon only his DF and arc maxim

[queen arrow]

this kind of weather is common in the grand line, Don Krieg was also saved by a sudden storm

[sand sail]

We really are, 'cause the storm was going before the fight even started. If this were a case of it coming out of nowhere, you'd kind of have a point, but even that wouldn't work given the Grand Line. But the fact that they sailed into the storm should prove to you it's not something they made

Unless you think, for some reason, Roger decided to use the Uranus that wasn't on the ship currently to change the weather

Before the fight ever started, that is

This storm also wasn't a different magnitude than what we've seen, Big Mom could blanket an island with bad weather

That was like her thing

[waxen dust]

The storm was mild before the battle then suddenly got worse and attacked one side of a the battlefield.

[sand sail]

It didn't suddenly get worse, that's just literally how storms work

[queen arrow]

the storm is never said to specifically target shiki

[sand sail]

They roll in and go up in intensity as you get to the worst part of them

None of this is strange or out of place, that's an entirely common phenomenon. And it didn't attack one side, why do you keep saying that?

[waxen dust]

Battle ended because of the storm attacking Shiki’s side, Roger didn’t continue fighting once that happened. As if he knew that he won the battle

[queen arrow]

the storm sinked part of Shiki's fleet, because it's not like Roger has a fleet in risk of sinking ad well

[sand sail]

The storm only sank half of Shiki's fleet. This actually makes the least amount of sense

Because you'd be saying that Roger, in full control of what was happening, not only decided to only sink half of Shiki's ship, but decided not to finish him off at all

Roger escaped because he only had one ship to take care of. Only half of Shiki's fleet sank, which tells us directly this wasn't a Roger weapon. The fight wouldn't have been called a draw if this were the case, that would be indisputably Roger's victory

The battle ended because of the storm getting choppy in general, not because it attacked Shiki's side. Roger escaped, and it ended. It didn't end because half of Shiki's fleet sunk.

[ancient vault]

KIng is very loyal what

[sand sail]

It's bad

If the Celestial Dragons had any kind of monopoly on powerful fruits, the most powerful ones wouldn't be out of their grasp

[ancient vault]

Ofc a zorotard had to include mihawk and imu somehow

[waxen dust]

The most important thing to note is that Shiki and Roger had a conversation about using a weapon Roger possessed. Only significant weapons to such magnitude are the ancient weapons. Oda didn’t simply put this conversation in for no reason, he used it as a way to highlight one of the weapons, Uranus. That’s when we get the storm coming in to attack Shiki’s fleet. It’s honestly right under your noses what Uranus is and that it is indeed weather related. I am 100% confident with my stance on this.

[sand sail]

They have resources and can get things, but they probably don't acquire fruits for admiral candidates. Aokiji's had his since long before he would've been an admiral, or even in the running

Kizaru as well

[sand sail]

The possibility is there, but your reasoning is 100% wrong. You're also trying to force the connection, none of that fight was even hinted to be any part of Roger's doing

Sure, Uranus could control the weather, it's dead obvious it wasn't doing it there though. Roger didn't even have the weapon on his ship, how could he have used it? What do you think it is that it can fit entirely unseen on the Oro Jackson?

[modest skiff]

The Uranus theory I am working on will hopefully satisfy both of you bean/brother, or you’ll both think I’m full of shit

[sand sail]

Is it calling out the egg on his ship for being Uranus?

[modest skiff]

No

[sand sail]

Dang, I like those theories lmao

That's one of the popular ones, people like to imagine Uranus is some kind of creature that he would've hatched with the giant egg

I'd be on board with that honestly, it'd be interesting to have that be a thing while we have Kaido being called the strongest thing on the planet. Imagine it hatches and that's what finally has to kill him, lol

[modest skiff]

I’ve got a lot of meetings today that I don’t actually need to participate in, so I’ll do some writing during that and let myself get blasted by the two of you. I just need to technically be on the zoom call lol

[sand sail]

I'm in the same boat, I just data enter and check things all day, so I get to chat here sparingly. Just remember, you don't have to be able to prove your theory, but make sure you know exactly how it can be disproven

Do it the science way, helps a ton

[forest rampart]

Oh I get it. Yeah, I agree. Like there's no other kind of warship like Pluton out there. And to think that it only requires a blast of it to destroy the island, the ammo must be special and very destructive too. So it's natural to think that it's difficult to produce one, thus takes away the possibility of the mass production of that ammo. And maybe there's a limit to how many times one can use it. Like one can only use it for one time only, and it requires a set amount of time of when one can use it for the second time. I would like to think that the warship has an auto system, in which it would lock itself down for 800 yrs after its first use. I choose 800 yrs because of Poseidon only appears (at age of 16) after that amount of yrs (and there's also Momo that is supposedly to be an adult by now if he didn't jump to the future). But your idea of it being useless after a "couple of shots" (just after one shot actually) is also good. Maybe even someone finds Pluton, he cannot use it since it's broken/useless. So it requires an extremely skilled shipwright to rebuild the ship (Franky since he knew the design of Pluton, an extremely skilled shipwright, has built his own battle ships in the past, and built several high-tech weapons: sunny gaon cannon, his general franky etc). This gives me another idea of what Franky will do within 1 yr TS. And maybe it will take a year for him to repair Pluton too.

[sand sail]

^ I like thinking about these possibilities, have you considered it to be a weapon like a Pacifista laser or the Gaon Cannon though?

[ancient vault]

Haki blast or sea water based canon

[sand sail]

Where instead of ammo, it's just a super high concentration of energy in some other medium

[waxen dust]

All I am going to say is I have a theory for Uranus (not the egg), I have been working on it for over a year. But there’s enough tangible evidence in the story that will showcase the potential of Uranus, it’s history, and who/what it currently is. Also there’s a lot of mythological references for it as well. Uranus has been under our noses this whole time, go through the story and you’ll find the clues.

[modest skiff]

This actually works against me. I am a scientist by trade and BrotherE knows how frustrating it can be to discuss theories with me, because I have a very developed ability to say "Well, we actually can't prove or disprove that yet"

[sand sail]

Yeh, a sea water based one would be interesting. Another thing to note is Oda's definition of "destroying an island" has typically just been razing it to the ground

[sand sail]

It's actually on you to point them out, not us to track them down. You're the one insisting here, lol

[queen arrow]

I'm pretty sure i only have one theory registered and i was right on the money

[sand sail]

I never said we don't have any, but this is certainly not one of those times

[sand sail]

That's fine, I try to stay away from that since every theory can boil down to it. I mean more like if you were to say Uranus is really Roger's sword, we could accept that as a starting point, but how exactly can we falsify it?

[waxen dust]

you’re absolutely right, unfortunately I am not ready to share the theory to go into a full depth conversation. But it’s 100% weather related, you can even make that connection through the mythology of Uranus itself.

[sand sail]

Technically we can't say it's been shown not to have those qualities, we've only ever seen him use it once lol

[modest skiff]

1 year omg. BrotherE is gonna need to host his own website to be able to not run into a character limit xD

[queen arrow]

people where discussing the "timeline inconsistency" of Tama's age, and i theorized that she lied that she was one year older than she was to convince Ace to let her join him

[forest rampart]

Talking about if Roger had an ancient weapon or not eh? I need a help from someone that can understand Japanese.

[modest skiff]

"please find attached Uranus.pdf"

[sand sail]

But Uranus is only a titan of the sky, essentially the sky itself, not a storm making deity

Well, god, but eldritch

[waxen dust]

it really is in depth and I honestly believe why Oda hasn’t shown/shared anything up front about Uranus yet is because it’s gonna major twist and more that likely be a major factor for the finale of the series more so than Pluton or Poseidon since its higher in the god hierarchy.

[modest skiff]

And what is Zeus? Too many "similar but not the same" examples in One Piece to worry too much about strict adherence

[sand sail]

Zeus is Uranus's grandson

[proud tree]

its the moon ofc

[sand sail]

Zeus ends up being the god of weather/storms and the all father of the pantheon, but Uranus wasn't really the one who had the thunderbolts and such

[pure raven]

Is it related to Monkey D. Dragon by any chance?

[waxen dust]

Uranus is a titan and that means his realm of possibility stretched even further than the Gods of Mount Olympus. So storms could play as one factor because clouds and the air effect weather patterns. The sky is BROAD so literally everything above our heads can be labeled as the sky. (clouds, stars, moon, etc.)

[light onyx]

Zeus -Greek pantheon Uranus-Roman

[waxen dust]

no, but I think it’s possible to consider Dragon having the Wind Wind fruit.

[sand sail]

Uranus was a god who gave birth to the titans. The gods of Mount Olympus were his grandchildren, and the concept of the thunderbolt didn't even come about until the Cyclops made one for Zeus

Now, we don't have to follow myths exactly, but you'd do better calling it the ultimate flying machine or something instead. Especially given what we saw on the moon with Enel

[proud tree]

or the awakened air air fruit

[sand sail]

It'll be something that rules the skies, but that could also just be a giant fortress that can influence the weather in its immediate vicinity

[pure raven]

Hmmmm when you say right under our noises this entire time. I start thinking it's been there since close to the beginning of the story. So paradise arc... But if dragon doesn't have it than who does..? He's the only one that's weather related aside from nami unless you include the Old Mans who trained her. Give me 1 hint

[forest rampart]

I skimmed through wiki and looks like Uranus is more related to rain. So Zunesha, a elephant that spray seawater twice a day like a rain, or flood on Zou could fit the description imo.

[silk rain]

thats a bit too much of a reach but i still think zunesha has an important role

[sand sail]

Would be interesting if Uranus was a collective name for Zunesha's race, or some other race of creatures

[pure raven]

One thing we can rule out is the WG doesn't have it right? Otherwise they would of used it to end the great pirate era, like they were trying to use with Pluton if they obtained it

[forest rampart]

Hm.. Idk how other mythology of Pluton and Poseidon related with real mythology.

[sand sail]

Pluton doesn't relate at all. Poseidon loosely does, 'cause oceans and sea kings and sinking islands

[forest rampart]

So I guess it's not too much reach to think that Zunesha is Uranus. And yea, it could be the name of its race, or that there's a second Zunesha out there. I dont have any idea on how they went extinct tho.

Has been searching for elephant egg mythology but can't find one. I thought the egg on Oro Jackson could be another elephant Zunesha. Idk the possibilty of Oda to go for that route too.

Could also be other creature, like dragon, bird etc. One thing that have caught my eyes is the Roc bird because of the image it carries an elephant but it doesn't mean anything. Just thought that it's interesting. Not to mention that there's a magical Roc bird in Oda's one shot manga of Romance Dawn.

[light onyx]

Is the name water ln laws name a taboo or is it the D

[twin void]

the D

[ancient vault]

the D is taboo but water was implied to be of importance to some degree as well

[light onyx]

Ahh

[fathom matrix]

yaknow what I find creepy? People pointed out that D clan members smile when they die and the D looks like a smile turns side ways.

But if you think about that idea further, when they fall on their side and smile, it really does give the idea of thet side ways smile, possibly indicating that fate further.

[ancient vault]

there are several other characters that are not D.s that died with a smile on their face

[amber oar]

Oden for example

Cora of all people died smiling, and he's born a CD

[bitter kraken]

They coulda been Ds but never got the initial, D could be like a bloodline with different branches

The thing about Doffy and Corazon is that they are so unlike the other CD’s they’re not small and weak like them, they could be decedents of the D bloodline without knowing it

[queen arrow]

why

nothing about the celestial dragons dictates that "they're small and weak"

they just don't have to bother with almost anything because of their environment

[sand sail]

Well, the small and weak bit just comes from how they carry themselves. They're waited on hand and foot, so it's not like they've ever had to lift anything but a pistol and their wallet

But having said that, Doflamingo and Corazon aren't unique because they're strong. They're just the only Celestial Dragons who have had to grow up away from the area, so naturally they're going to be much stronger than we've generally seen

They were attacked by everyone around them for years, and went straight into a criminal lifestyle to thrive, so their lives made them strong

[bitter kraken]

Okay strong yes, but look at their height we haven’t seen any other CD tall like them. Maybe that’s nothing but they’re parents even left their land to be regular, and the other one who saved the mermaid princess was of doffys family. Something about that bloodline is different than the rest, that’s how I see it

[queen arrow]

you are really arguing height huh

Luffy is a D. and he's short

[sand sail]

Most of the D's are short

[queen arrow]

the 5 Elders are CDs and they're about as tall as Sakazuki

[sand sail]

Taller, it looks like

[queen arrow]

Sakazuki is taller than Doffy by 1cm and the elders might be even taller yes

[bitter kraken]

No just Doffy and Corazon just everything about them is unlike all the other CDs that we have seen, idk if the five elders are CDs but I’m talking about the ones that wear space suits because those were the ones Doffy and his family were

[queen arrow]

no, Doffy and Corazon are exactly like every CD, except they where taken from Mary Geoise and can't go back

[waxen dust]

From left to right:
-King George V of Great Britain
-Hideki Tojo of Japan,
-Mikhail Gorbachev & Josef Stalin of the Soviet Union
-Leopold II of Belgium
-Guisseppe Garibaldi of Italy

[sand sail]

The Gorosei are the highest ranked Celestial Dragons, but they are still dragons

They don't wear the suits because they just don't seem to leave Mariejois anyway

[proud tree]

I would Imagine if the 5 elders left their castle for once they would also wear space suits below the red line

[bitter kraken]

One of them has scars, so he prolly has left and got into combat with someone who messed him up some

[queen arrow]

Charlos wasn't wearing the bubble helmet while he was in the holy land as well

[waxen dust]

tbh I don’t believe they would willingly wear space suits at all; I think those space suits are just apart of the ploy of the WG building a grandeur facade for the CDs. The Gorosei know of Imu’s existence and probably know all the hidden stuff so I don’t think they’d wear them unless needed to keep kayfabe about the CD role.

[queen arrow]

oh no i believe they wear the suits very willingly

it's to purposefully deattach themselves from the common folk, to not even breathe the same air

it's a display of their arrogance

[waxen dust]

I moreso think that ideal of CDs vs common folks is apart of a bigger conspiracy within the world. The Gorosei and Imu being the only ones who know of the truth. Like I can see the Gorosei wearing them but only if necessary for an occasion, I would say they don’t have the same ideals as all the other CDs because of whatever internal knowledge they possess from Imu.

Like the Gorosei have their own way of displaying superiority and that’s through knowledge. Meanwhile CDs are moreso flaunting their “Godliness” at everyone else in the world

[queen arrow]

i don't see why they wouldn't do it

because they know Imu exist?

[waxen dust]

I think if the Gorosei were to wear the space suits it wouldn’t be because they align with the same principles as all the other CDs; they would wear it out of obligation to keep face and continue the lies within the world. So they’re on the same side as the CDs, but in a condescending way

[queen arrow]

they could still see themselves as above the common folk, and i don't think there's enough evidence to say they don't

but that's a pointless discussion

[waxen dust]

oh yeah they definitely believe they’re above everyone including all the other CDs.

And they likely feel that way because of their exclusive relationship with Imu. The Gorosei probably feel they have a higher purpose than everyone else because they directly serve Imu

[proud tree]

Have we even seen the 5 elders leave Pangea Castle?

[waxen dust]

Also wouldn’t be surprised if Gorosei can fight, physique wise they seem in good shape considering whatever age they all are. So you would assume they’re involved in some kind of physical activity. Maybe

[waxen dust]

nope, closest we ever got was they were outside when Spandam was summoned and they still wore suits.

[bitter kraken]

In regards to Toki, do we know if she has a grave? Like how the scabs that jumped to the future have. Because if she dosnt that makes a stronger case for her being the silhouette, it wouldn’t have been hard for the folk to recover her remains and give her a proper burial 🪦

[queen arrow]

since she was shot dead by Orochi's men, whatever happened to her body it probably wasn't recovered by Oden sympathizers

[bitter kraken]

She fell into the flames, why wouldn’t they recover it after all the violence was over with. They put grave stones for the scabs who were supposed to be have been killed by kaido

[modest skiff]

If Mansherry happened to be there at the time, I can imagine a technically possible scenario where she is saved. Kind of a ridiculous thought though. Regardless, some kinda devil fruit fuckery is really the only path to her being alive. The other possibility is that she threw herself into the future (and doesn’t need a large portal when it’s just herself) and happened to be healed immediately in some way right after. This feels like the only feasible option and it ain’t all that feasible or reasonable

[sand sail]

She didn't fall into any fire, she was shot dead in front of a crowd

[bitter kraken]

I’m still bothered by no one puting up a grave for her like they did the scabs, even a symbolic one. If she did die she died in odens territory where she was loved by the people, I find it really really weird

[ancient vault]

Thats honestly a good point tho.

Where is her grave or did her corpse disappear after dying and its somehow linked to the DF??

[sand sail]

Could be that Kaido's people dragged her away only half dead

[modest skiff]

This is the main thing that makes me think she can be alive. It doesn’t feel like anyone is really acknowledging her death. But that would mean the scabbards know she’s not dead, but that doesn’t really make sense. I legitimately believe she can still be alive but I just have a hard time thinking how unless her devil fruit only needs the big portal thing for other people. If she can just blink into the future, it’s conceivable she blinked into the future and then was saved. But this feels really shaky

[sand sail]

Well, they've all said she's dead, it wasn't like something we had to come to a conclusion about lol

[modest skiff]

Ok never mind lol

[sand sail]

I'd be on board with the silhouette being Toki if not for that tbh

[modest skiff]

So if she knew she had to go to Wano, I can let myself be a little “the truth is out there” by entertaining the idea that she knew she needed to seem to die and needed to hide out until Joyboy shows up in 20 years and other such things. The fact that we don’t have a body makes me really squint. I still think Enel is more likely than Toki but I think Toki isn’t crazy

I’m basically starting from the conclusion that she’s alive and working backwards to think what would make that happen. Still challenging lol

[waxen dust]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually Toki, I think it’s possible for her character to still play a vital role in the story. As for how she managed to live and be well hidden this entire time, I honestly cannot come up with a good enough solution that doesn’t seen a bit of bullshit move. I still prefer Hiyori but I could totally see Oda going the Toki route as well.

[supple anchor]

what about Tsuru?

[modest skiff]

That's a paddlin'

[supple anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/paddling-gif-7623907

[supple ivy]

do you guys think the 5 elders are strong or weak ?

do you know how blackbeard never sleeps it was said that he has to younger sisters . i think he took there lives that’s why he has to extra souls and is haunted by killing his two sisters.

[rustic thistle]

Is Nika being used for fisher tiger or it was an individual from sky island?

[runic osprey]

I think theyr about the same strength as the admirals but im not sure

[covert hazel]

No evidence one way or another

[proven lion]

Hmmm I had an interesting thought... doflamingo during marineford was laughing and one of white beards men asked "why are you laughing?" Doflamingo said "we are standing on the fulcrum of time how could you not be laughing? The past and present will be written here." Which got me thinking about the possible war for the ancient kingdom. Maybe the whole reason it started was for a similar reason to why the war at marineford started, someone (possibly joyboy) was captured sparking a war. Oda does like to give very litteral clues sometimes, its probably a bit far fetched but it's an interesting thought I figure.

[plush pike]

Sorry I had to

[forest rampart]

i think there's only 11 tombstones. Akazaya nine + Oden + Momo + Hiyori + Toki = 13. imo the one that's missing is Toki's. But there're two missing eh.. The other one can't be Hiyori's since she's alive but why does her tombstone is missing if citizens of Wano think that she's dead? Maybe it's because that Momo said no one is able to tell him whether she's dead or not, unlike his mom, Toki. So maybe after the war is over, Akazaya, Momo, Hiyori, Hitetsu/Sukiyaki, will visit Toki's grave.

So Toki's grave has to be somewhere, and we'll get to see it after the war is over.

[forest rampart]

That's interesting. But i think there should be some parallel of why another war will happen, the final war. Why would Luffy destroy the WG, the red line, and such?

[light cobalt]

with all the one piece villains losing in a ironic sense, luffy will kill Blackbeard which symbolizes him finally going to sleep

[warped zinc]

Maybe

[bitter kraken]

Anyone else think WBs fruit is out there somewhere? Because the fruits are reborn into the world when the user dies, and WB was dead for a bit before BB necro’d him

[weary cliff]

No, definitely not. If it's the essence of the power that makes a regular fruit into a devil fruit, BB already absorbed that somehow

Same reason why there isn't another yomi yomi no mi out there even though Brook died. The power never left him

[amber oar]

Is the first bit even true?

[modest skiff]

Not in my eyes, no. There has been symbolism here and there but I am not sure I'd call it irony

[weary cliff]

The manner in which the final blows are struck sometimes have symbolic meaning. Doffy and Croc immediately come to mind

[cerulean summit]

Irony is crocodile and Doflamingo, maybe even Arlong. Symbolism can be ironic, and it is a form of irony that a man working in the shadows is brought to light in a final blow or a man who considers himself above everyone and like god being brought crashing to the earth. Arlong’s is more explicit- he was fed a cycle of hatred and abused and forced that cycle onto someone else an entire village you idiot , and the person fated to free his people imprisoned him. Irony across the board for those three. It leans heavier into solely symbolism for Enel and Lucci imo.

[bitter kraken]

I hear you but books fruit was supposed to do that wasn’t it lol? That was its power? But I’m talking about WB the moment he died the fruit appeared somewhere and then BB sucked the power out of his body or something? It’s not a big stretch I don’t think because we already have two of kaidos fruit power out there

[modest skiff]

Theory: Pain will turn out to be important for either haki as a whole or CoC specifically. I think willpower is tied to enduring pain. I think it is possible that this common trend between BB and Zoro will be highlighted more in the future. But I think that BB's fruit amplifying his pain actually helps make his haki stronger over time.

[frozen prairie]

theory -> the world government / humans that we know of are not native to the one piece world, and are instead transplants from the moon which gradually took a dominant role on the earth.

we see in ohara that there are 7 moons, but we only know of 1: https://i.imgur.com/Z0PKDPv.png

what caused the forefathers of the modern world to go to the earth from the moon? my guess is something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakunawa, an indonesian myth about a world devouring snake which fell in love with a girl, but when this was found out, the village took retribution on the snake, and for his part, he devoured 6 of the 7 moons that existed at that time. "When the Bakunawa was about to eat the last one, the supreme god took action and punished the Bakunawa by banishing it from its home away from the sea."

the difficult part is trying to piece together with current information what exactly happened. it's very strange that the celestial dragons wear space suits all the time, and with the consistent moon iconography, i don't think it's solely metaphorical. if i were to guess, the CDs or their forebearers came down to the earth (similar to what we saw in enels cover story) and eventually ended up in conflict with whomever lived on the planet at that time. some combination of giants/minks/fishmen are my best guess for who the original inhabitants of the world were. i'll also note a weird consistency relating to 'ancient times' in one piece and these races, and now with the revelation of king's race conjuring fire, we know of 3 races that are explicitly tied to elemental conjuration (minks --> electricity, fishmen --> water, king's race --> fire). given the backstory we know of the ancient giants ("continent puller") I don't think it'd be absurd to say the giants have some relation to "earth", which weirdly coincides with this panel from skypeia: https://i.imgur.com/Ukpr6d7.png

i also would not be surprised if the destruction of the former moons, the debris made its way to the earth and constitute the islands on the grand line. it'd also explain why the climate / weather / magnetic fields of the islands are all so different and wonky

[weary cliff]

Momo's fruit isn't Kaido's exact fruit. It's an artificial imitation. For the gura gura to exist anywhere else, it would have had to happened before BB did whatever he did.

We don't know full details on the mechanics or this specific situation enough to say what definitively happened. Could be WB was still lingering on the edge of death, or that because there wasn't a suitable fruit in the immediate area it was taking longer than we saw with smiley, or even that BB did have a fruit on him for the respawn and that was the trick. But whatever the case, BB now has the fruit and it's the only copy that should exist

[stuck ore]

It was prolly bb absorbing the devil of the fruit using his darkness or something

[slim moat]

We are told many times df are sea devil's incarnation. May be this Sea Devil is actual entity in one piece world

[frozen prairie]

yeah i would not be surprised if that were the case

it also would dovetail quite nicely with some of the stuff we see in noland's flashback

the giant serpent was culturally and historically important to the shandians for some reason. while what we see is noland killing them, there ought to be a reason that the shandians worshipped the serpent in the first place. what's more, noland subsequently went on to chop down that tree grove which was causing the disease. the shandian's believed that their ancestors spirits moved into those trees upon their death, which feels to me like a very similar pattern to what we know happens to devil fruits after someone dies - the spirit moves into another plant (tree/fruit) nearby

i'm pretty positive that as we learn more end-game stuff, the jaya/skypeia arc will look much more important in retrospect

[stuck ore]

Yeah skypiea isnt finished I feel like

[modest skiff]

I'm starting to feel like Indonesia as a whole is a spoiler lmao

[stuck ore]

Because if pluton is underground and neptune is underwater then uranus is in sky

[frozen prairie]

yeah, oda likes mythology a lot and indonesia seems to be where he's drawing a lot of the more important stuff from

[pure raven]

There's a reason why Jimbei is the "helmsman" after all. It is clear to me that his "end of series" moment will be to man the helm of the Noah and steer the ship back to the surface. Thus saving his people and also fulfilling his dream for fishmen to live under the light of the sun..

[frozen prairie]

i'd bet that historically fishmen DID live on the surface and were only forced underwater by 'invaders'

[modest skiff]

I think Pluton is under water and is able to eliminate islands from either above or below, using a technology that emulates the upstream near Jaya

[frozen prairie]

i'm not fully sure yet but i think it might be reasonable to assume that fishmen were the original inhabitants of the world, with all other races being transplants from one of the 6 destroyed moons

[stuck ore]

And luffy will destroy fishmen island and force fishmen to live on surface with other humans

[stuck ore]

Pluton is buried deep in alabasta sands i think

[modest skiff]

This is my assumption as well. I have wondered if the Red Line, the islands, or both, were just a result of the moons being destroyed and falling on the Fishmen planet

[pure raven]

I think that just like how sand sand logia was countered by its natural substance water, darkness logia is countered by light. In that cloth in total darkness bb turned into darkness and absorbed wb's power

[stuck ore]

Yeah that makes sense

[frozen prairie]

yeah - i'm less sure about the red line now that we know there are other races that live there, but the islands make complete sense to me. it's been emphasized how 'unnatural' a lot of islands on the grand line are, having them be remnants of a destroyed civilization that fell onto the earth neatly explains why

i reckon the giants play a big part in all this backstory, but i just can't figure out exactly how yet

[modest skiff]

I also struggle to place the giants in my theories, Teal

[frozen prairie]

also this isn't really a theory or spoiler but is it PURELY coincidence that the straw hat has a Red Line going across it lol

yeah i figure we'll need the elbaf arc to really piece together their role in the story

[modest skiff]

One of my original theories was that the Red Line was retribution from the planet. Whoever invaded the planet angered the planet and the planet did a bunch of stuff to itself to make life there worse

[frozen prairie]

i like that, and can see that being the thrust of an idea

[ancient vault]

!pics @frozen prairie

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[frozen prairie]

oh, ty!

[surreal oriole]

I like it, I'm starting to think similar. Maybe the ancient kingdom was some kinda interplanetary coalition of races that was brought down by the humans

[frozen prairie]

absolutely, i don't think i have the details right in my head, but it feels REALLY right that 'outer space' will be important in some sense

[surreal oriole]

It does especially at this point. I wonder if the humans found out how to shut down travel between the planets or "moons" preventing the ancient kingdom from getting backup and leaving them vulnerable to attack. And the One piece is just a way to reconnect the way to easily travel between the planets or moons, bringing everyone back together

[frozen prairie]

the one piece is a spaceship!

[surreal oriole]

I was thinking more like teleportation, since we have already seen a spaceship lol

These is alot of possibilities for how people could travel back and forth ,teleportation or a spaceship is just two examples

[surreal oriole]

These people still on the moons would remember the tragedy of earth while the WG erased that history to prevent a rebellion to assume the position as the dominate race on the planet when they originally wasnt or not even originally from earth in the first place. And as soon was the planets get reconnected all the races flood back onto earth and swiftly end the CDs rule.

[surreal oriole]

Is there anything to the theory that the letter "D" is just a half moon symbol? Would at weight to it all. "The Will of the Moons" maybe? And the people with that initial carry that will in someway. Idk I'm a plumber at work and this is all coming off the top atm.you got me thinking at distracted at work @frozen prairie thx for the theory lol

[frozen prairie]

ahahah np. but i definitely think so! it seems like it works too well!!

[light onyx]

question 14 Theory shaky was in rox crew then found love with Rayleigh

[pine delta]

ok so:
Shanks says he'll see him again after luffy becomes "a great pirate"
BBecoming an emperor is basically "a great pirate"

Davy black fight with shanks in elbaf after wano seems more and more likely.
This saga is called 4 emperors, big mom->kaido->Shanks->Blackbeard in terms of main character of arcs

he becomes agreat pirate and then boom DBF

[surreal oriole]

I wouldn't be mad at that, although I feel we are going to at least get a clash between shanks and Luffy. Paralleling WB and Roger's clash. Like we see shanks standing and saying "here he comes" as luffy springs across the tree tops

[pine delta]

yeah maybe as a form of greeting

both using ryuo as a form of "test"

[vestal bone]

Adv coc for bigger clash

[surreal oriole]

Maybe less of a test and more like just what happens when 2 yonkous come together. Similar to shanks on WBs ship or roger clashing with WB

Yeah definitely conquers

[vestal bone]

Would love to see the crews reaction to it lol

[surreal oriole]

Yeah would be dope, it could possibly mirror roger and WB damn near perfectly with Yamato charging in and being swated away by shanks using divine departure. Yes I think shanks uses Roger's techniques

[ancient vault]

she left the crew before rocks met roger tho

[light onyx]

New theory shaky used to be the brains of the crew then left which led to the crews downfall

[bitter kraken]

The crews downfall was they got fucked up by roger and garp lol

[surreal oriole]

Well that's what were told, I think once we learn the details it's going to be alot more complicated then that. I don't think shaky had anything to do with it tho

[ancient vault]

I've got my own theory that she left Rocks crew because she didnt agree with his world views and ambitions

[surreal oriole]

Makes sense

[ancient vault]

And that she was only in there for a year. So the rocks pirates were created 43 years ago in my opinion

[dusky tundra]

Shaky being in rocks pirates wouldn't change anything it's irrelevant

[ancient vault]

Its world building lol

[craggy pumice]

Doesn’t hinder it from becoming true

[dusky tundra]

Shaky is irrelevant to story

She's just rayleigh's lover nothing more nothing less

[surreal oriole]

Yeah I don't see how shaky is going to affect the main story but maybe idk

[craggy pumice]

She doesn’t need to

[strong flame]

@dusky tundra Mommy* crocodile

[ancient vault]

Nor does shiki hinder the main story. Why is he in rocks crew then

[surreal oriole]

I don't think they hinder it, this story just isn't about their generation. Although I do hope we get Roger's story in a stand alone short series where all these characters are relevant. But maybe they will play a part in the main story in some way outside of just being lore

[strong flame]

Theory/observation: u need conquerors haki to awaken devil fruits freely

[junior cape]

Cringe take.

[elder estuary]

Anyone give a good theory

[junior cape]

After the raid, Zoro is just gonna pass out in agony for a week, and Sanji/franky are gonna loot Queen's lab for parts and answers.

[visual merlin]

impel down guards?

[strong flame]

They don’t have a consciousness

[ancient vault]

!pins

[lone hedge]

PC:
Check for 📌 at the top right of your screen.

Mobile:
Click on the channel’s name at the top of your screen or swipe to the left, then search for 📌.

[strong flame]

And chopper has to use pills to awaken and even then he loses consciousness when he takes too many

I’m guessing you have to conquer the devil in the fruit

[dusky tundra]

Cry about it

[junior cape]

[warm zenith]

Gear 5 incoperating Ryou?

[junior cape]

Maybe

[dusky acorn]

He can already make great use of the haki while in Gear 4 though, as we saw on the rooftop. How would Gear 5 be incorporating it differently, or in a stronger manner

[light onyx]

I forgot observation Haki existed

[bitter kraken]

On the killer V hawkings fight, the only way I see it ending is law realizes that Kid is being harmed thanks to Hawkins ability, and he using his room to cut or stab Kid without actually hurting him. Then Kids little doll falls out of hawkings, and dude is like O.O all panicked 😱 and killer comes in quick and actually kills him. I don’t see hawkings making it out of this war alive

[modest skiff]

I still think Law is able to remove the curse entirely using Room

[lone sigil]

Will Shinobu's Devil Fruit still take effect if she dies?

[modest skiff]

yes

Just like how White Beard's devil fruit still takes effect after he dies. If he destroys a mountain, it doesn't magically reappear when he dies

[weary cobalt]

Yes because the maturation is not dependent on the fruit after the effect takes place

[modest skiff]

My ideal scenario is that Momo is matured in a way not only reliant on his natural bodily processes, but that it goes many steps beyond and assumes his natural training, life routine and various other things, such that he is ultra-mega-chad-oden-2.0 post-growth. I want his biceps to be at least 4 ft tall.

[weary cliff]

You usually take it to #manga. This channel is for theories

[weak flicker]

Thanks. Wasn’t sure where to put it.

[normal plume]

I think the ripe ripe fruit can be used to make all the towns with polluted vegetation ripe with life again. Just plant the seed 🌱 and Shinobu touches and they become trrees bearing fruits and all again right

[modest skiff]

This is fantastic and I hope it goes that way

[fathom matrix]

is it possible to ripen something to where it no longer has any ill effect?

Like if you ripen a poison or toxin, it's no longer....well poisonous or toxic?

Like, if shinobu used her powers on a puddle of water or one of the rivers, could she ripen it to the point where it's harmless or aged so much it no longer has any ill effect?

[vestal orbit]

think it might evaporate first

[queen arrow]

i don't think water can age

[normal plume]

Well ripen implies that it’s at its best age or time so rather than aging forwards after the ripe time I think it should be able to age things backwards which have gone forward of their ripe time

It should be able to make older people younger if they wish

[queen arrow]

the ground she used her power on didn't seem in it's best condition

[fathom matrix]

issue with that is, Shinobu would probably be fine with turning momo into an adult if she coud reverse it. (not 100% but less worried)

[normal plume]

Well no becuase his child form is not his ripe form

Tsuru though she doesn’t look as if she’s aged 20 years may benefit since Kinemon literally hasn’t

And also I wonder why Shinobu doesn’t use it on herself

[queen arrow]

it doesn't seem like it sets thing to a specific stage, and more it just ages things

[normal plume]

😮 ohh so more accurately it’s an aging fruit

[fathom matrix]

well, she USED to be loved for her beauty when she was younger, so she probably assumed she still looked great and nothing's changed.

[normal plume]

Only ripens for really young things/life otherwise it will age them

[queen arrow]

it makes things older, and it can age them to the point of rotting

[fathom matrix]

I think if it was an aging fruit where it could reverse or progress age, it'd be way too much like Bonny's. So I think a balance (kinda) and to set itself apart from that fruit, is only being able to mature/ripe things forward and not backwards, allowing her to effect people and the environment, where as bonny's can only effect people, but she can go forwards AND backwards".

[normal plume]

Actually that’s hacked, weaken the enemies in their frail old state like Bonney. It’s like a lesser version of Bonneys fruit then except it works on non-living things is it

And also then I suppose it’s possible to kill viruses like that

Not water but any harmful microbes in it

[modest skiff]

Depends if you mean a virus or a molecule. 2 different things. Life forms naturally die whereas a chemical would experience oxidation or other forms of decomposition over time

[fathom matrix]

mainly the stuff in the water, not the water itself

[normal plume]

Perhaps Shinobu can affect decomposition rate or decay of inorganic matter as well we don’t know

[fathom matrix]

Okay, maybe

poisons, venoms and toxins can expire (some forms, but they can)

[normal plume]

Today I came across another really cool technique to do with magnets if Oda got serious with Kidd. I found out about this thing called a Magnetostar with an immense magnetic field such that it’s emitting x-rays and radio waves for hundreds of light years around. By somewhat an extension of something similar to this Kidd can jam all electronic communication in the grand line ..it’s within possibility for him

Yes organic based poisons can, chemical based poisons cannot decay and perish but certainly they may lose their potency with aging

[little badger]

do you reckon Kidd could fly by pushing and pulling metals. (like mistborn)

[normal plume]

Haha I have no idea about that visual but certainly he should be able to do his more beast version of “Frankys skywalk” we saw in TB with metal. Kidds metal walk haha

He doesn’t need a Dragon

[modest skiff]

I'm a chemical physicist (I basically deal with the physics of chemistry and chemical reactions) and I could talk for days about the potential of Kidd's fruit. It is a truly devastating power. The shit he can do, in theory, makes me need to fan myself

https://tenor.com/view/so-hot-santana-fanning-glee-gif-4871135

Channel description: SERIOUS THEORIES only. Messages that break this rule will get punished. Slow-mode is enabled to promote lengthy discussions and discourage shitposting.

[pure raven]

Sorry

[normal plume]

That gif hahaha I’m downloading it

[modest skiff]

No worries, #also-manga and #manga are totally appropriate places to meme about

[normal plume]

It’s really nice to have a chemical physicist here

[modest skiff]

One of the nice things about One Piece being such an aged wine is that lots of people are deep into their careers and have quite a bit of perspective when compared to...never mind

[normal plume]

Nvm at the right point

It’s a true testament to its quality that it transcends the boundary that contains different phases of ones life with age

I once thought OP would be a phase, it proved otherwise 😂

[modest skiff]

In theory, Kid should be able to create fire, condense it, and propel it, since that is one method of plasma generation. Nitrogen and oxygen plasma is generally what "fire" is. The long story short is that if you generate a magnetic field using an alternating current, and you tune the frequency to have an easy time resonating with either atomic mass or electron mass, you are able to create a cascade of ionization events. Within a gas, that effectively creates a plasma, since plasma is what occurs when a large amount of a gas is ionized. It essentially becomes a conductive gas and thus fire.

[pure raven]

Have you guys realize that luffy’s pirate alliance is a bit similar to whitebeard’s in marine Ford arc?

[normal plume]

So you’re saying if Oda wanted he could make Kidd a fire bender

[pure raven]

He probably will be able to do all of that when he awaken his fruit if he haven’t already

[modest skiff]

Yes, he could be. ~2 MHz is where atoms such as argon and oxygen resonate. 27 MHz is where electrons resonate. Smaller particles like electrons resonate at a higher frequency because their mass is much smaller, so their momentum doesn't fight against the frequency as much as an atom

I dunno if Kid would really be capable of tuning frequencies to that extent, but this is an anime, so I'd certainly let it slide

[normal plume]

So with smaller particles he could make hotter fire is it?

[modest skiff]

I don't think that's how it works but man that's a great question. That may actually be true. But the long story short is that he can create unbelievably hot fire if we assume he had absolute control to create electric fields of specific frequencies

[normal plume]

Ah the likelihood of Oda going there though I so hope so, he kind of seems like the Vegeta to Luffy’s Goku and if it is like that then he’s gonna want to push himself and see what new limits he can reach

[little badger]

Do you reckon Kidd coulddamage Onigashima by moving masses of metal around

[modest skiff]

For whatever it is worth, I have been deeply impressed like 3 or 4 times with the level of scientific accuracy of One Piece, sometimes. Either Oda is a former scientist himself or he actually hires consultants to make sure things are accurate sometimes. He DEFINITELY puts extreme effort into making things "physically" reasonable sometimes. Not always, but I do think it is reasonable to assume that Oda would push the boundaries of physics with someone's devil fruit

[dusky acorn]

This is quite the technical discussion. It's interesting to me because I have always coveted to see fire techniques from Kid, especially knowing what his jolly roger looks like

We easily know how the dagger represents his fighting style with the Jiki-Jiki of course, but the potential fire he could produce has yet to be seen

[normal plume]

It’s likely he has a circle of professionals willing to offer him their opinions freely

[normal plume]

with that connection it’s gone from plausible to moderately probable for me to see it happen

[pure raven]

@modest skiff I don’t think Oda will make Kidd that busted thou or if he does he would give those abilities draw backs to using it.

[modest skiff]

Forgive me for getting WAY too head canon here: Think about how you can kind of flex your arm to induce a frequency in your hand. You can make your finger vibrate as if you are playing Mario Party and trying to inflate a balloon by pressing A really quickly. It is possible that Kid is capable of a similar mental process through which he could create an alternating electric field and create a plasma (fire) and then form an electric field around it, then use magnetism to propel it. He should also be able to use a stronger magnetic field to CONDENSE the plasma and thus increase its temperature. Kid should be able to essentially create a welding torch through this mechanism

Note: This is why I was saying it is possible for Enel to heal the Scabbards, by welding their wounds shut using an electric torch

https://tenor.com/view/its-its-always-sunny-always-sunny-charlie-day-charlie-gif-16330640 I feel like this is me right now

[normal plume]

Kidd ..probably doesn’t have the brains to figure it all out himself unless he’s been tinkering with an idea in this direction for a while, otherwise he’ll need tutelage from someone more learned to advance himself to reach this technique. Maybe the old user or hahaha a character like you in the OP world 😂

[pure raven]

😂

[pure raven]

Bro look at Luffy he figure out he could blow into his hands to make them bigger and to pump up his blood to increase his physical properties

[modest skiff]

While I agree with this, gear 2 being possible because his heart can't be physically damaged makes me indulge some pretty wild ideas

[dusky acorn]

Something just like this would be great to see for this specific fight he's in, notably because there'd be more fire on fire antics in regards to Prometheus, just as when Marco was battling her

If he could produce such fire, I wonder how it would interact with the homie

[normal plume]

Well Luffy is a genius

[dusky acorn]

I'd like it to just have such a mass that it entirely consumes it lol, and/or adds to its power

[modest skiff]

He should be able to extinguish Prometheus according to my logic

One thing that I have considered is that Kid might be able to induce magnetism in typically non-magnetic materials. I won't get into the details of why magnets exist, but you can induce magnetism in other objects using the right electric fields. One thing people asked me is if Kid could lift Onigashima. He could, if he created attracted Onigashima...TO THE MOON

[pure raven]

I bet Kidds awaken make able to make any thing he touches magnetic and can control at will even if they aren’t metals.

that’s what I just said too 👀

[normal plume]

I would be soo down for this

[modest skiff]

One small thing I want to note: Being a chemical physicist, One Piece is an absolute pleasure to watch. I think I appreciate Oda to an extreme degree because of the times he has clearly done his science homework and found ways to "expand" on science

[pure raven]

I want you to explain magnetism

[modest skiff]

The channel's intentions are defeated. I encourage you to google "spin and magnetism" and watch a youtube video. If you have questions, feel free to DM me

[normal plume]

Kidd needs to shine in a big way having taken straight Ls since the time skip and he’s such a grandiose personality I want him to either K.O BM or do something of that extent

[pure raven]

Yeah but Hawkins has his doll…how they gonna over come that?

Do you guys think he's gonna be more of an alley or enemy, near the eos?

[normal plume]

Knock him unconscious

Ussop sleepgrass could do it

[pure raven]

More like the friendship between roger and whitebeard

[normal plume]

He better remain an enemy and get wrecked horribly (talking about Hawkins)

[modest skiff]

I think Kid only attacked Shanks because he felt like he had an ace up his sleeve. He would not attack an emperor with his strength he has shown so far. He still has a hail merry play. I think it relates to physics of magnetism. I think he either has some type of object that has extreme synergy with his devil fruit or he found a way to use it in a really strong "direct damage" way that goes beyond making metal into a big fist

[pure raven]

I mean he did fight shanks and all so they're may yet be bad blood....and he sorta have this aggressive approach when trying to fulfill his ambition, but who knows hope we get a back story from him soon

[modest skiff]

I think they will "continue to walk the same direction" as Kid said in the anime recently. Kid will never directly call Luffy his leader, but he will go along with Luffy's plans. But he won't hesitate to punch Luffy in the face if he thinks it is warranted

[normal plume]

Hopefully it has to do with his fruit and not haki. He can even cause magmetic fields to disturb people’s neural circuits so they can’t function properly

[modest skiff]

oooooo i like that

[normal plume]

Me too all of these brilliant things he can technically do and hopefully we’ll get to see some of them

I gotta go for now. Take care everyone

[pure raven]

sounds like he has some room for character development, how do you think Luffy would react if he tried to go after shanks again after all this. Kidd doesn't really strike me as someone who just let's go of things especially considering they took his arm

[pure raven]

I hope Soo too if Luft finds out he’s trying to kill shanks he would surely would fight him out of anger

[modest skiff]

Luffy would say it’s between the 2 of them and would respect Shanks’s autonomy. But Luffy would be against Kid using underhanded tactics

[modest skiff]

Later dude, thanks for the discussion

[slim moat]

Kidd powers are like Magneto from X-men. I am very skeptical about him using any fire techniques

[vestal orbit]

sorta thought that as well but you could say that luffy's powers are like mr fantastic's powers

could be the type of technique initially thought of as manga logic before a deeper dive into it reveals some genuine science

like how gear third doesn't seem like it should hurt that much until you realize it's more like a tire than a balloon or maybe i was the only one who thought it didn't make sense

[modest skiff]

If Sanji can generate fire through friction, I feel like the most standard way of fire generation in the semiconductor manufacturing industry is fair game. You’re right that it’s not guaranteed though

[upbeat mist]

is his fruit ferromagnetic only?

or is it ALL forms of magnetism? if only ferro it would be strong af but not beyond broken i thouyght?

[modest skiff]

Unknown at this point

But I am just totally not convinced he’s enough of a dumbass to attack shanks with only the power we’ve seen so far. Shanks clearly showed cheeky mercy by only taking an arm, but I’m not convinced we’ve seen his full power

[upbeat mist]

he's got that raw animal magnetism and he's going to win by stealing their wives and making them depressed ezpz goda at work

[velvet edge]

no other series pls

[upbeat mist]

hell you dont even need to rip it out just lump it to block arteries or move it out of where it needs to be

[velvet edge]

[slim moat]

Sanji/Luffy are not exactly fire users like actual fire users in the series. Their extent of fire use is limited to coating their kicks and punches.

[pure raven]

ace's hiken sounds so sexy

[sacred hawk]

I have a theory. What if awakening isn't just a powerup that you can just unlock

What if awakening is something that needs to be done to the actual fruit prior to being eaten.

[cedar sinew]

it's explicitly said for an awakening, intensive training/usage of the fruit is needed

sounds counterintuitive if it's pre-set before the user eats the fruit

[still pewter]

idk if anyone else has said this before buti think that big mom constantly uses her conqeurors haki and when she loses her mind thats when she takes damage because shes not in control anymore, would explain why she was so strong as a child too

just a thought

[cedar sinew]

coc doesn't increase strength in that way

and if she was constantly using her coc then all the fodder would be knocked out

[pure raven]

using her coc 🗿

[cedar sinew]

heh heh funny word

[dusky notch]

Lunarian means someone who lives in moon?

Sanji is related to skypiea?

[brave shell]

she is just strong naturally i think, like those of giant

[nova spindle]

So what if one piece is straight up the moon

[snow herald]

I still stand by my theory.
luffy - joyboy
zoro - ryuma
sanji - nika
they are going to resemble/inherit from the 3 legends.

they dont need any direct connect or anything, just a resemblance

[waxen dust]

no Luffy has to be Joyboy &/or Nika

Skypia panel comparison

[silk rain]

No, I think it's the same as before, bc we got more hints in the latest chapter that its his germa powers

[snow herald]

exactly.

luffy doesnt have to be anyone lol wtf.
just because someone looks/acts liek someone doesnt mean theres a direct connection.

[pure raven]

So if im not mistaken, the theory about the red line being man made just got debunked in the last two chapters right?

[leaden mountain]

Oda dropping a new term just like that.

[snow herald]

luffy has a strawhat which may be connect to joyboy.
zoro fights and looks like ryuma
sanji uses fire which I assume sun god did. or at least the lunarians.
sanji is from royalty, there heritage may go deeper than we know

[silk rain]

Pretty much, but we still need a confirmed time line

[waxen dust]

we don’t know, could still be man made just by a “God”

I wouldn’t say it’s debunked yet just more layers to its inhabitants

[snow herald]

I'm going to entertain the thought of sanji's heritage goes way deeper and the vinsmokes may be linked somehow to the lunarians. Maybe they were from a neighbouring clan along with the lunarians, maybe. Sanji also stated he is going to be the most wanted/dangerous man in the crew.

It also seems like his enchanements are kicking in. thats hype

[trim flicker]

This chapter blew my fuckin mind

[leaden mountain]

Every scene a new revelation, confirmation and debunking of theories ... My head.

[novel scroll]

The whole elemental attack without Devil Fruit has always been a mystery. So Lunarian is a race that can makes fire or something.
Does Sanji has Lunarian blood?
What about Luffy's Red Hawk.
Also Brook can use ice. Is he a rare race too or something...

[dusky notch]

Judge might have used DNA from Lunaria tribe. Lunaria could be skypiea tribe.

[snow herald]

we know brooks is connected to his DF and weapon.

[limpid holly]

so Sanji might be partly from King's race, since both use fire technique yet it not coming from any devil fruit power, sanji is also royalty and King race lived in the red line which was known as God's land

[snow herald]

we know how sanji makes fire cos his soul burns hotter

passion = fire
luffys passion and love for ace lets him create fire

[limpid holly]

that is just corny excuse

[snow herald]

Sanji literally says it lol

[silk rain]

bro dont bother he already said sanji = nika

[snow herald]

@silk rain no I didnt say =
i used -
I dont want any of the trio to be someone else or incarnate or whatever

[limpid holly]

nope, its just the high intense of the usage his robber power that create fire

[snow herald]

im just saying the trio seem to be growing like how the legends were

[light onyx]

🌚 what a good chapter that was

[snow herald]

friction. yeah and sanji also creates it through friction, at first anyways. now he just creates it without spinning

we just dont know

[light onyx]

Are you talking about his fire moves ?

[leaden mountain]

Sanji's passion burns as he states. It could be his heritage.
Red hawk - Friction? As stated hundreds of chapters ago.
Brooks ice power could be connected to the underworld. Dante's inferno describe that hell has 7 rings with different "climate".
Compare it to Impel Down.

[light onyx]

Smart

[snow herald]

@leaden mountain yes. exactly

[leaden mountain]

Insert Homer`s S.M.R.T. gif.

[light onyx]

If Dante’s inferno exists do you think oda would add Paradiso too

And the final place is the one piece

[leaden mountain]

A few chapters ago. Don't pin me down to which one. The word (paradise) has been dropped. Probably Referring to the ancient (pirate) kingdom.

Or wait I need to check if it was mentioned in the Noland/Skypeia arc

[light onyx]

Ahhh

[ancient vault]

@waxen dust What if God Valley was filled with several "God" tribes/races for the celestial dragons to admire. That would just enhance my initial theory of dragons (who are seeing as godlike creatures) being the inhabitants of that island

[leaden mountain]

I think I'm missing out where exactly God Valley is located in the OP world. Was it stated somewhere?

[light onyx]

What if paradiso was in the red line and the final place is where the celestial dragons are

[ancient vault]

never revealed

Im implying that God Land used to be on the Red Line but was taking dwn to the blue sea and replaced by mary joa

[waxen dust]

I am more so thinking God Valley and God’s Land are the ruled the same person. But the question is what makes them separate and if it is made from the Red Line why would someone excavate it to the sea

[light onyx]

It disappeared mysteriously

[ancient vault]

ruled by the same person?

[light onyx]

Imu

[ancient vault]

Well I think it makes sense that it wouldve been taking down to blue sea. We know Mary Joa existed at least 800 years ago

[light onyx]

Wasn’t the void century like 800 years ago

[ancient vault]

Yeah

[waxen dust]

Yup because “GOD” is the key term I am focused on. The way WB phrases his sentence “back then” I am deducing that he is talking about Joyboy/Nika prior and then once Imu he gave some land to the CDs. I think the actual God’s Land was where Maryjoas currently stands

[ancient vault]

Ig 700 years ago. Idk but like after the WG won the war

[ancient vault]

Thats what im implying to. It was replaced by Mary Joa

And im saying that island to be god valley

[novel scroll]

So Luna means Moon.
White Beard said that Lunaria is from God Land above the red line.
So he might be talking about the moon.

Who is on the moon right now?
That's right.
Enel is coming to Wano boys.
#EnelPiece
👍

[tough shard]

By any chance, Is Sanji using techniques that are being used by King's species?

[waxen dust]

Right! It most likely could be that, but then why not have WB mention he visited it prior with Xebec...

[ancient vault]

Because he possibly doesnt know? Tbh idk maybe he even did

They cut him off so he couldve said it

[waxen dust]

So let me ask you this: What would be the relation to God’s Land & the Ancient Kingdom?

[violet swan]

Juicy chapter this one was

[forest rampart]

both are the same place

[worldly moon]

I saw a theory that said that the use of the raid suit is activating the dormant DNA within sanji and might end up to him becoming less emotional like his brothers which could end up potentially ruining his problems with women

[median pecan]

why did luffy called blackbeard they when he first met him

[stray canyon]

what if judge gave the vinsmoke siblings diffrent species genes thats why each sibling has a different ability ?

[limpid holly]

and the proximity is also matters since King's race and fire power were mentioned just 1 chapter ago

[drowsy copper]

So, it's finally kinda confirmed/obvious that Zoro has some sort of Blood Relation with the Shimotsuki Family... but then was he the brother of Kuina? could it be?

[supple anchor]

isnt it the suits that give them different abilities?

[waxen dust]

then that means God Valley is Laugh Tale lol. Unless Laugh Tale is not related at all to the Ancient Kingdom

[forest rampart]

what is the chances of that the western dragon that ryuma killed was not in wano?

[violet swan]

I wouldn’t think brother but probably a distant cousin

[drowsy copper]

but then why would the father hide it?

[median pecan]

so god valley was on moon but it came to earth and is known as laughtale

[supple anchor]

maybe its sanji's mom that has the blood of lunaria

[worldly moon]

A clan of wano left wano and built a village in the east blue he could easily be the descendant of one of those original travelers who could in turn be a descendant of ryuma

[forest rampart]

LT, AK, "land of god", three of them are the same place

[limpid holly]

also Sanji feels weird for some reason while he stands next to King

[violet swan]

Yea he said it way better @drowsy copper

[drowsy copper]

wan't only 1 Shimotsukig that left and went to build the village? I remember it was the grandfather of Kuina, he was alone

[worldly moon]

I'm positive it was more than one

[waxen dust]

so then what do you think is God Valley?

[violet swan]

More than 1

[supple anchor]

the shimotsuki clan were in charge of the ports of wano, there might have been a bunch of people that left

[worldly moon]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong if so my fault

Nvm I'm right lol

[drowsy copper]

Ok, and what if Zoro is actually Ryuma? the mention about 1 eye only made me thinking that Zoro could travel to the past in the end of the manga and actually be Ryuma.. but I beleive Oda said we will never see such Time Travels on One Piece

[forest rampart]

no idea at all. maybe i'll find my own opinion of what was "god valley" or that i'll subscribe to a good theory if i find one

[leaden mountain]

Don't give us weird ideas. I just imagined that the whole red line is made out of moon rock. Because "up there" ... God valley disappeared. (Moon broke apart) ...and spinning around the blue sea.(like a Saturn ring) formed the red line after a while.

And I'm not even drunk.

[ancient vault]

it was in wano it was over the flower capital pretty sure onimaru said it

[violet swan]

I think that’s kinda far fetched

[median pecan]

u giving wird idea now

[ancient vault]

Thats what im trynna figure out

[leaden mountain]

Told you!

[worldly moon]

I don't think this will happen due to the fact that oda made it so that the time time fruit will only ever go forwards in time instead of backwards to prevent stuff like this from happening

[median pecan]

ok guys i know who dr vegepunk is its ||the friends weve made along the way||

[ancient vault]

I could see God valley also being sth else but it has to be related to God Land@waxen dust

[forest rampart]

onimaru said it's a western dragon? because i think the type was revealed in magazine, none in manga. and in monsters

[drowsy copper]

well, then I hope the 1 eye only is like some sort of ability.. we never got explained if he actaully "Lost it"... he might have achieved some sort of ability that is still sleeping on him

[leaden mountain]

Has someone figured out Why we only see 1 moon? (In OP)

[limpid holly]

since wano started i had the feeling that Zoro's family might be from Wano, originally, since his master family were from there, it might not be the only immigration out of wano at that time and place

[median pecan]

casue there is only one moon

[ancient vault]

Yeah? Wait whats ur question? Im just saying ryuma killed the dragon in wano

[leaden mountain]

What about the astronomical structure in Ohara?

[pliant juniper]

Maybe all the other are title locked and the dark side only ever faces the planet?

[drowsy copper]

we all had that hunch, specially when they mentioned the name Shimotsuki and showed the Damyo of Ringo shade

[median pecan]

there is only one moon now but normally there were 5 more moons now we have 5 elders too think

holy sheet shanks and makina are wife and husband

[leaden mountain]

Where do you get that idea that they are married?

Parents maybe. But married?

[forest rampart]

I'm asking if we know that the kind of dragon that Ryuma killed was a western dragon. Like even in Magazine and Monsters stated that it's a western dragon, there's a chance that the western dragom Ryuma killed was not in/from Wano but somewhere else. So I'm thinking that the western dragon was from "God Valley" or from another island like Punk Hazard, unless PH is an artificial island, but we don't know since when PH is there do we? If it's PH, then maybe PH is there since 800 yrs ago. And it would fit yet another parallel between Ryuma and Zoro since Zoro killed a western dragon in PH even if it's an artificial one, while Ryuma might killed a real one, not an artificial one.
So there's a chance that perhaps there were two dragons that Ryuma has killed in the past: one from somewhere else, n one from Wano (another eastern dragon, Kaido 1.0). Unless if it was stated that Ryuma killed a dragon in the past. But then one has to check japanese translation to see if the structure is fixed on just one or not.

[ancient vault]

Did u read my theory regarding that?

Yes it was a western dragon btw

Magazine is canon

[median pecan]

oda said something when he drew the panel with makina holding her son that she is married to that person hmm yeah that person this means only when shanks was in that island she had son so

[waxen dust]

Wait give me a second I am brainstorming....

God’s Land CAN be Laugh Tale
-Roger named Laugh Tale
-Land might of been named something else prior
-WB seems to have got this information AFTER talking to Roger

Laugh Tale = Ancient Kingdom?

So God’s Land where Joyboy/Nika lived is Ancient Kingdom because Laugh Tale is named after Joyboy’s treasure.

God’s Land being God Valley??
-God’s Land PREVIOUSLY on Red Line
so it is implied it was either “moved” or “disappeared”
-God Valley “disappeared”
-Lunarians & CDs are the only people living on Red Line
-Rocks went to God Valley...
-Maybe CDs enslaved King’s race on God Valley which explains why he is RARE....
-BUT if God’s Land is God Valley....Where was the Ancient Kingdom??

-King’s race praised the Sun God Nika
-Who’s Who’s jailer was silenced because he spoke about Nika...
-Nika = Sun God
-Maybe jailer was part of King’s tribe?? 🤔🤔

🧠 🧠
God’s Land is most likely Ancient Kingdom/Laugh Tale
God Valley is the Lunarians home since they worshipped God Nika

[leaden mountain]

Jesus

[ancient vault]

im just gonna link it so I dont flood the chat

Dragons inhabited God Valley theory:
#manga-theories message

[forest rampart]

Yes I did. But I disagree with a few of your theories from that theory. Your theory is good, but I still cant buy everything as it is. I need some other evidence to believe in your theory as entirely. And I'm also trying to find another alternatives of what "God Valley" could be.

[ancient vault]

I wouldnt say God Valley disappeared is the point here. Thats not related to the disappearing of Gods Land

Whats important is that God Valley mustve been hidden. Theres no way an island on the blue sea that Celestial Dragons visit is public knowledge. So if God Valley was a secret it fits

Im gonna rewrite it soon I think

[ancient vault]

I also think several other "God Races" aside from Lunarians, Dragons were on that island. Obviously not free but rather it was like a Zoo for CDs

[forest rampart]

I'm a type that would read and consider several theories. Only after I read a few theories do I evaluate which one is better. And it might take a few months for me to see if I made a right decision to subscribe to a certain theory. Like I did read theories on C4N, Y4N, M4N, n TTLN. In the end, I could see only TTLN becomes true.

[ancient vault]

whats TTLN?

[forest rampart]

Tama The Last Nakama

[ancient vault]

Where did u get Kings race praised Nika from?

[waxen dust]

*Tama Takes An L

[median pecan]

i guess lunarians or laugh tale people are D and im is from kings race

[waxen dust]

Hmmm I was just brainstorming and writing it at the same time;
I just remember Marco said they can conjure fire 🔥

[grand walrus]

why does whitebeard know or care about the ancient land of the gods on the red line?

could it be the ancient kingdom?

[median pecan]

The question is Is KING a lunarian?

[ancient vault]

he was drunk. Probably learned about it during his days with Rocks or from Roger

[waxen dust]

Again impromptu brainstorming...

I think the disappearing of God’s Land is Laugh Tale, The One Piece., Ancient Kingdom. Because remember it can only be found via specific coordinates.

God Valley on the other hand is the grasp of the WG so they likely hidden that island or extinguished it completely. Definitely leaning towards this place being King’s homeland and he possibly was a slave and has the Dragon claw brand which gives a reason why he wears the full bodysuit.

[ancient vault]

yes heavily implied only things left is admitting it himself

[median pecan]

Rocks D xebec had a dream and that dream was so dangearous gol d roger had to defeat him

[ancient vault]

I like the idea that he has the brand too

Possibly zoro reveals it when he cuts his suit open

[waxen dust]

yeah it’s like the Boa sisters

[ancient vault]

Or what if he hs major scars from torture hes hiding under that suit

And turned into a torture freak himself

[waxen dust]

when they were hiding it and like the Sun pirates as well. Everyone hiding the Dragon claw mark

[ancient vault]

both

[waxen dust]

https://tenor.com/view/true-correct-bingo-right-yes-gif-18348440

[grand walrus]

maybe the ancient kingdom was the moon kingdom and it got wiped out by the earthlings (20 kings) and the celestial dragons took on the aesthetics of the lunarians/moon people (space suit) but arent actually related to them at all.

[ancient vault]

the scars and the brand. I'd like to see that

[waxen dust]

King was a former Celestial Dragon Slave from God Valley

[rotund pond]

Naa king from the moon dog

[silent dock]

i feel there is a split in the will of D, two sides of the same coin type of thing. dif interpretations of freedom. joyboy prob had a rocks/blackbeard type as well, an ancient kingdom ally who went too far. so god valley was the prev generation clash of D, which means it prob related to the secrets of the world n shit. will be crazy to see the story told in the manga

[ancient vault]

King was a former Celestial Dragon Slave from God Valley
Who was tortured and branded with the Celestial Dragons claw mark

Hes hiding the scars and brand under the suit and the trauma turned him into a sadistic torture loving freak

King was picked up on God Valley by Kaido and which is why he's so loyal to Kaido
He was the first to join Kaido's crew

[silent dock]

celestials gods may also be from the moon, or A moon depending on how u interpret ohara model

[ancient vault]

We already know where they are from

[grand walrus]

this makes a lot of sense. However, kaidou barely survived god valley and he was too young. do you think he would help a child?

[worldly anvil]

hmm

[ancient vault]

Good point. I think the child mightve just started following him after he turned into a dragon. Since I was already theorizing that Dragons were also inhabitants or more so prisoners on that island

[waxen dust]

yup I think we figured it out; This is actually makes lots of sense and ties into God Valley which was introduced not long ago

[ancient vault]

Maybe King gave him that ounce of motivation that let him get back up after his captain just died

[grand walrus]

i could see that

i think kaidou picking up a rare enermy of the WG in god valley and king being his first crewmate makes total sense

[ancient vault]

The dragons that used to live there possibly died out but were praised by the Lunarians which could be the reason why King decided to follow Kaido as well

[grand walrus]

one thing i would like to add: king isn't portrayed as cruel as queen. The fact that he misled the tobi roppo for a meeting makes me thing he is a cool and collected type

maybe we get a nice backstory for king

[ancient vault]

he seems to be a bit more rational. I still believe Queens comment about King being a sadistic fruit to be true tho

"a bit"

[grand walrus]

well jack and queen are pretty evil so far

[rotund pond]

Oda in the future might finish off Sanjis total arc/dream by having him go to where the Lunarians lived on the Red Line and this is how he created the all Blue by destroying it when he’s up there

[grand walrus]

the fact that the lunarians are a sky race aka "gods" and also that god valley had slaves might imply that god valley was a celestial dragon place where they had the remaining people of kings race. it is possible garp and roger saved the lunarian slaves and then the WG killed them all anyway? maybe why garp hates them?

one piece film God Valley comes out after the manga concludes

[waxen dust]

What if King’s race is like reptilian? Then it gives more support that they are a “Dragon” race. Because of their wings and Roger having the egg....

[ancient vault]

No im not saying King is a dragon

I think God Lands was just a nation with multiple races who had one thing in common: "They were all soon as godly creatures"

[waxen dust]

King’s race, Onis, Giants....

[ancient vault]

And the celestial dragons got rid of them and punished them. Like "zf u think are?? WE ARE THE GODS NOT U"

Or well Imu or someone else did

[waxen dust]

yeah that makes sense and Rocks came there to save them or take over the island for himself

[ancient vault]

Think the ladder. I also think he wanted to kill the CDs there. Maybe expose them.

Also these people were called gods for a reason. They got special powrrs rocks probably wanted for himself

[waxen dust]

That makes sense, Rocks wanted all of them under his control

[frozen lantern]

i am pretty sure momonuske looks exactly or really close to oden

[restive kestrel]

Oden without hair

Or did the hair "mature" aswell, wonder how he flies as his little d became a big d

[frozen lantern]

maybe tthe hair matured

[waxen dust]

@ancient vault I am starting to believe King’s race could be reptilian, maybe not actual dragons but they are mistaken has them because they have wings AND conjure fire. Think about that for a second...

[ancient vault]

I dont get it

Im gonna take a shower. Write out your idea i'll get baxk to u when im done

[frozen lantern]

we are gonna see next week kings bounty and i think we will know more about his race

[bold gull]

"lunarians" sounds like "people from the moon". so should we assume that there was a 4th tribe living on the moon?

[waxen dust]

we believe he’s a former celestial dragon slave and wears the bodysuit to hide his slave marks and loves torture because of the CDs

[frozen lantern]

maybe the moon god like the sun god?

maybe the leader or the founder of lunarians were called the moon god

[bold gull]

it may be. it's weird that this 4th tribe wasn't show on enel cover story so maybe they're not related to the moon

[frozen lantern]

for some reason that makes alot more sense

[waxen dust]

Dragon’s breathe fire and look like giant lizards

King got wings and conjures fire.

God Valley had the Celestial Dragons and Vegapunk wants to recreate actual dragons.

Roger got the egg around this time

Like we said God Valley is King’s homeland

So what if King’s race is reptilian? We got every other thing in the OP world so reptiles shouldn’t be farfetched.

Also since King’s race has wings and conjure fire, what if they also TAMED DRAGONS? So dragons originated from here and were taught how to fly and control their fire by King’s race.

But then the CDs took control and began killing off the dragons because their masters were enslaved and unable to tame them. After Roger & Garp saved God Valley, the race died off (besides young King) and they entrusted Roger with the last Dragon egg since he could be powerful enough to guard it....

[zinc iris]

Hold on, God Valley was not on the Red Line

[crystal quiver]

Just realised that roger was early reaching laugh tale and he said that his son would find the one piece next. At that time oden was with him, how funny would it be for oda to make momo join the crew so odens son will the one piece with luffy. Idk just a random thought

[waxen dust]

we don’t know it’s origins tho, could’ve been on the Red Line initially

[zinc iris]

It was Roger's son, that ended up becoming a donut

[pure raven]

did we ever get a definitive point of where it was until today?

it was only just mentioned right before i thought the location was undisclosed

[waxen dust]

nope, just that it “disappeared”

[pure raven]

yeah and i think marco and whitebeards convo rules out the possibility of Mary Geoise being in the spot of it? or maybe im reading it wrong

[waxen dust]

God’s Land is Laugh Tale

[zinc iris]

It doesn't really rule out that the lunarian's city was in that spot

[steel needle]

My theory, idk if anyone else has said this at all but The reason why we only see one moon is because the wg 800 years ago used Uranus to create the redline using the other moons, hence why kings race are called lunarians (lunar referring to the moon) since they live on top of the moon (red line)

[crystal quiver]

Maybe Mary geoise was built on kings races’ village 🤷🏻‍♂️

[waxen dust]

God Valley is likely where King is from

[jaunty girder]

Whats the matter with marco saying sum about something on Mariejoa

[pure raven]

still super confused about the lunarians i feel like i missed a lore drop or something i know king is one but where was it mentioned?