manga-theories

[wild vector]

If davys will is something benevolent, then there's no way blackbeard is inheriting it.

[broken seal]

When Imu says he better kill Teech to stop Davy’s will, snd Teech gets away, why shouldn’t I take that as Teech being the inheritor? When Teech’s entire life is about fulfilling a grand plan to seize the world, just like Davy Jones was king of the world, why do I have any reason to think Blackbeard is taking some different path?

It’s this other interpretation that requires a big stretch to justify. This idea that the man Roger was waiting for would be the person who inherits Davy’s will, when we know he’s all about Joyboy. And using an ambiguous reaction shot from Imu to try and overturn themes that the story has been laying for decades, that’s extremely flimsy

[radiant crown]

While Xebec has a high degree of knowledge, its absolutely unclear if he has full and perfect knowledge, his own clan might have lost the truth of davys promise. The only people we are pretty certain have full knowledge was Roger after Laugh Tale, and Imu

Additionally I think its a bad choice to assume "Davy's Will" would be inherited by direct blood relatives when he have a known contradiction to this in Roger, Luffy and Ace.

[broken seal]

I can’t deny that it’s a possibility, but nothing has been framed in a way that shows Rocks is misunderstanding anything. He knew more than anyone until Roger’s last voyage.

I think it’s a bad assumption to say inherited will cant be passed down in a family, when that’s the only way the will of D has persisted

[radiant crown]

it is how the name has persisted, but not necessarily how the actual will has been passed, Luffy knew of gold roger, not gol d. roger but he still picked up his will nonetheless, and certainly not his fathers/grandfather

[broken seal]

We’re conflating two things. Luffy has the will of D as his birthright from Dragon. He carries Roger’s (Joyboy’s) will by way of Shanks.

[radiant crown]

and Davy's will falls into the latter camp

[broken seal]

How can we say that? The only people inheriting Davy’s have been his family, and Eris, who married in

[radiant crown]

So "Davy's (promise) Will" is a birthright but Rogers/joyboys aren't?

[broken seal]

Joyboy’s hasn’t been, as far as we’ve seen. It doesn’t mean it couldn’t be. There is a world where Ace was the successor

[radiant crown]

The fact that they believe they are pursuing someones express promise should be an indicator that they aren't following a will. They are following an ancient grudge, completely different from luffy who unknowingly inherited an ideolgy

[broken seal]

There’s a good chance Shanks only ran into Luffy because he was searching for Ace.

As far as the promise thing, that could be true, but for now it’s just a guess. We need the story to show that

[radiant crown]

I don't know if "in an AU where something else happens, what i'm saying lines up" is gonna be a hit

[broken seal]

All I’m describing is what has happened in the story. You’re acting like there are some prescriptive rules that it could only be that way

If that was the case, WB wouldn’t have backed Ace, because he couldn’t have possibly inherited Roger’s will

[radiant crown]

WB was following his own ideals in protecting his "son", its irrelevant.

I'm the one describing things that happened, examples we are very certain of where someone inherited a will e.g. Shanks saying luffy said rogers exact words. You're assuming that because xebec said Davy was a king, and he was here to fulfill his promise, that Xebec actually knows what Davy was like, and what his promise was, and inherited his will

[wild vector]

He also wanted iris to die, it's just the family connections to Davy, not 100% that teech is davys will.

For one, blackbeard is evil. He's obviously not going to be king of the world.

Second when you factor in what whitebeard says it's clear.

Davy clearly has some connection to the ancient kingdom.

Just because Roger was waiting joy boy doesn't mean he didn't think someone would succeed where he failed.

[broken seal]

You’re casting doubt on Xebec all on your own. When he references the promise to Imu, someone who’s a direct source, they are on the same page about it. If we wanted to introduce doubt, that’s where Imu needs to say “you don’t know what you’re talking about, Davy”. But he doesn’t, he goes along with it

The only part he contradicts is that Davy was king, which of course he would because Imu is the illegitimate king

[radiant crown]

I think Imu is making a similar mistake to roger, assuming the direct blood line is the likely place for his will to emerge

[radiant crown]

relying on something that wasn't said / immediately called out on is also a fallacy

[wild vector]

You don't know that Rogers will is the same as joyboys will. It's looking like Luffy inherited his will from both Roger and joyboy.

[broken seal]

So is not taking the story at its word just because maybe it’s a fakeout. Literally anything could be a fakeout

[radiant crown]

Imu actually referred to Rock's words as "babble", and we'll have to see the japanese, because the english definition of babble "to talk or say something in a quick, confused, excited, or silly way" includes the word confused

[broken seal]

It’s the hat, my guy, it’s been kind of a big deal since chapter 1

[wild vector]

That doesn't mean Rogers will is joyboys and separate from Davy.

Again, if the wish is benevolent, then Blackbeard won't be fulfilling it.

[broken seal]

If you can’t see the strawhat as the signifier for Joyboy’s will, I can’t trust you being genuine about anything you’re saying.

Never mind that Roger was Davy’s biggest enemy in the most recent era

[wild vector]

What I'm saying is you are trying to use Rogers will as a way of saying it has nothing to do with davys will.

[broken seal]

Roger’s hatred for Rocks is all we need to distance the two

[radiant crown]

I personally don't put too much into the Roger vs Rocks narrative. He was called "rogers greatest rival" purely because he was the strongest opponent roger ever fought, but from what we've seen their only serious fight was at God Valley and we know this is forced.

I don't think its a battle for the heart of the will of D or anything like that.

I just think xebec and bb will be revealed to be frauds. very dangerous frauds with a lot of knowledge

[broken seal]

Oda didnt give a great focus, you’re right. We do have the page after Roger leaves the bar that shows that the hatred is real, though

[radiant crown]

that was more like luffy and BB's first meeting. Roger and Rocks could've ended up with a rivalry like Roger/ WB.

[broken seal]

It was like Luffy and BB in the sense that they had a natural disdain for each other

[radiant crown]

the problem is, this narrative makes me think of a certain other manga of two boys/men inheriting the will of their ancestors, and I probably don't want the ending to be too similar

thats a pretty bad take tho

[broken seal]

I would expect them to be more similar than you would like. At this rate I wouldn’t be surprised if Davy Jones and Joyboy were brothers.

Don’t get too upset over it. This whole flashback has shown Oda’s portrayal of similar but different pasts is more deep than this other series. Trust in him

[wild vector]

@broken seal you don't believe that joyboys promise has anything to do with davys will.

However there's already a plot line connecting the two.

The descendant of Vander decken, who is has the flying Dutchman has been after the Poseidon for 8 generations.

The flying Dutchman is (in other media) the ship of Davy Jones.

Davys promise and joyboys promise are connected. Which basically disproves the idea that blackbeard will inherit davys.

[broken seal]

Holy logical leap. At most this establishes that Davy Jones maybe had a relationship with a previous mermaid princess. Which isn’t even a crazy idea. It doesn’t at all point to what kind of relationship that was, or if he was partnered with Joyboy

[wild vector]

We don't know enough about the original vander decken to know if it was a consensual friendship or if he was after her.

Either way it's no coincidence like you are trying to make it out to be.

See buggy equates pirate king to ruling the world. He's the first one who's referenced the idea of a world king before we were ever shown Imu.

[broken seal]

It sounds like it me. Because if we play devils advocate and assume the promise is the same as Joyboy’s promise to Poseidon, why does it matter now to Imu on GV

[wild vector]

Because the promise clearly involves the ancient kingdoms philosophy and the era they(and joyboy/Davy) were building.

A return of this kind of philosophy is a danger to Imu.

[broken seal]

This is a separate thing entirely and your not wrong. I expect Blackbeard to make it to LT and also to become king of the world

[wild vector]

Look at how Imu considers the promise as "babble" it's the same way people around orochi considered tokis prophecy as nothing.

[wild vector]

Lol Blackbeard is definitely not becoming king of the world. He's evil. Idk what you don't get about that. He would just be another imu abusing power for his own benefit.

[slow torrent]

Guys wait holy smokes I think I just figured something out WTF
My theory: So basically Shamrock was the one who went to speak to the gorosei during the reverie and remember his line “I want to speak to you about a certain pirate” it was about BB I’m so certain , SHAMROCK FIGURED OUT BB IS ROCKS SON, that would explain why imu had BB picture cut up

[broken seal]

That’s the point. BB is evil and it would be terrible for the world. Luffy needs to stop him

[wild vector]

Blackbeard will be the final villain but he will in no way become ruler. For any period of time.

[broken seal]

We will see. You know it’s darkest before the dawn? King of darkness Blackbeard sitting on the empty throne before Luffy can beat him and kick off the dawn of the world fits that description. It also gives BB the chance to fulfill Davy’s promise, even if it’s shortlived

[wild vector]

Still don't see that happening.

[broken seal]

Well for now it checks all the boxes, and doesn’t take a gold medal in mental gymnastics to pull off

[wild vector]

That's true. There's nothing aside from gut feeling at the moment.

If you are trying to imply it takes mental gymnastics to see blackbeard not inherting davys will or becoming ruler of the world.

You are wrong. Period.

The invasion of impeldown isn't a theory that has gotten good feedback.

However this panel from the war makes me think oda was hinting at mingo joining up with crocodile.

Right after this question, we get a panel of buggy. Who turned into crocodiles "leader".

So I really think cross guilds next move will be to invade impeldown. Once the flashback ends, all the lore is gonna be moving us forward like rocket man!

[edgy cedar]

I the Will of D was to emerge within the Davy clan, couldnt it be luffy.
Think about it, hes got the exact oppisite devil fruit of emu and luffy is also the inherator of the sun god, nika
What is luffy is the chosen one of the will of D that liberate the one piece world and change it all together

[radiant crown]

That's basically what my theory is yeah

[edgy cedar]

ok was trying to understand. I agree that could be the case

[main galleon]

the combination of Davy and Joyboy heritage makes think of Buggy

[swift cosmos]

Okay, A current theory In have with Kuma's fruit is that it can dodge obstacles if the user is concious. That would be the best way to explain how Kuma was able to send people to Sorbet.

[pure raven]

My theory is that Whitebeard and Roger definitely knew that Buggy and Blackbeard were xebecs sons, and that's why they split them into two separate crews. And I think one of the reasons Whitebeard forgave Blackbeard so much is because the most important concept for him is family, and Rocks was his first family, even though they didn't get along well.

[broken seal]

How would buggy be Xebec’s son. Was he cheating on Eris?

[low vine]

Secret voice?

[full venture]

Mihawk's Yoru was one of the treasure in God Valley?

[pure raven]

I think this is why Buggy later became a Yonkou

[slender fulcrum]

Absolutely. And the clash of rhe gura gura vs nika would be the one to destroy the red line, as foretold.

Bb wants to rule the world exactly like davy.

[late elm]

I think that’s just a generic cross that oda has used before in treasure piles and decor around cities. If it was your it would be sticking out the side of the cart cause it’s so big. Also it looks like the design is different where yours tail split on its guard is longer than that https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/e/e7/Kokutou_Yoru.png/revision/latest?cb=20230715032627

Generic treasure in this one too

[raw scarab]

the cross is also seen in the treasure the straw hats got from skypeia

[summer kiln]

So I read Rocks' threat to Imu as foreshadowing that Davy Jones (BB) and Joy Boy (Luffy) need to join forces to defeat Imu. And I think BB may be somewhat privy to the presence of Imu in the world and knows its his destiny to defeat him. Which may be why he hasn't overtly ever attacked the straw hats knowing that either a. He needs their help in the future or b. He knows that he would not be able to defeat Joy Boy/Nika. I now wonder if BBs devil fruits are specifically chosen for defeating Imu. The Dark fruit could potentially negate Domu Reversi? And the Quake fruit could potentially topple the Red Line and dethrone Imu from the top of the world?

[fringe hemlock]

i agree n it adds to the list of ways Oda is foreshadowing Luffy and BB teaming up

[summer kiln]

To build off that... Roger and Garp teamed up to defeat Rocks. Does that mean Luffy and Coby team up to defeat BB in the end?

[fringe hemlock]

i feel like that could/should happen but i see that coming before Luffy accepts Blackbeard’s help

[fringe hemlock]

like how Luffy wanted to punch Caesar before including him in the plan in WCI, or how he needed to fight Franky before they could get past him beating up Usopp up, or how he needed to fight Usopp AND receive an apology before accepting him back on the crew, etc

i been saying, Luffy was like “there sure are a lot of big men on this island” in Jaya, the 4 big men that mattered in Jaya (one of whom Luffy didn’t meet there) were Bellamy, Cricket, Doflamingo, and Blackbeard. Luffy fought Cricket (who was looking for a bell(amy)) and Bellamy after he met them, and later befriended them and in a way helped them grow. Luffy beat Doflamingo, who is now locked up by the WG (Luffy’s enemy) and is amused by the stories about him. Doflamingo is in Impel Down, where Luffy first fought Blackbeard, and also aided the escape of Crocodile, Mr 3, Bon Clay, and Buggy, ALL of whom he was seriously opposed to in the past. It feels like an implication to me that the “they will meet” thing is about whether or not the Joyboy and Davy Jones of their times can end up working together before killing eachother. Like how Zoro was wasting time fighting Lucci after being forced to work with him in Egghead, which culminated with Kuma’s backstory (AKA the story of a former enemy that turned to Luffy’s side, basically his version of Domi Reversi)

Blackbeard being genuinely evil is like the true tragedy of Rocks getting turned to Imu’s side, and is like the opposite of Roger getting Garling’s son. Luffy turning him back to the right side will be the equivalent of him breaking his former enemies out of prison, breaking Franky and Robin out of Ennies Lobby, breaking Nami out if Arlong’s captivity and Zoro out of crucifixion etc etc etc

Luffy will be the one to restore Davy’s will, which will be the same as Shanks’s mom’s will: not to have their children raised into monsters

like how Bellamy was lamenting following the wrong person while being forced by said person to fight Luffy. I definitely feel like the same will go for Blackbeard. Luffy will recruit him but only after he beats him. like the king fu dugongs.

Koala was drawn training them which is ironic since she only became a follower of Fisher Tiger’s will after he hit her (for following the will of the humans/CDs like Bellamy), same with Sai and Baby 5, she was treated like a slave by multiple people and only found i healthy dynamic when that cycle was broken. Davy probably did it for Joyboy and Joyboy has to return the favor, breaking the cycle for all their descendants as well as the rest of humanity. its like Hajrudin wanting to unite all giants and Loki wanting to dominate and discriminate

Loki had to be beaten before he could be trusted, which is why it matters that Zoro AND Shamrock both attacked him before Luffy could finish freeing him. it would be crazy if by not attacking Loki Blackbeard has the easiest time of recruiting him out of anyone, and if that teaches (Teeches) Luffy not to attack BB. that could explain the symbolic/name parallels between Bege and Jinbe (be-ji, ji-n-be, stripes in their designs, goatees, curly hair). Jinbe also didn’t want Luffy to fight Hody

The shared “ji be” stripes goatee thing is because they both represent Rocks and the fact that both of them worked for Big Mom is meant to foreshadow the fact that Rocks was forced to work for the CDs and Imu in the past.

this would also all be why Shanks, as Shamrock’s replacement, is Luffy’s true enemy, and that would be why Shanks was the one who told the audience AND Imu that Blackbeard is an enemy.

I feel like once Luffy finally meets Shanks, Shanks will try pit him against BB and it’ll become clear that Shanks is the Doflamingo to Luffy’s Bellamy.

Luffy putting his hat over Katakuri’s face after he beat him would foreshadow Luffy returning the hat to Shanks only after he beats him, and if u ask me there would be no better thing to cover than Shanks’s scar showing on Shamrock’s body or vice versa. It would be literally and figuratively saving face, that thing Shanks is always doing

[fringe hemlock]

alternatively, Luffy refusing to return the hat could symbolize him growing up and not feeling the need to hide the past, which is that thing Imu does

also symbolized by how proudly Luffy says his name, whereas, if i’m correct, Shanks has a hidden name (like Sanji, the most direct parallel to Shanks in my scenario)

[pure tusk]

I think that might just be a cross but I like the idea

[opal dock]

Didntt he went to kill Luffy before mugiwaras reach skypea? At least in the anime happened

[summer kiln]

Great in depth theory. I dont think we'll see a turn on shanks at this point. I think he is who he is and really is just there to carry on the will that Roger left which is to usher in Joy Boy. I like the reminder of Luffy breaking the master/slave relationship on many previous adversaries/allies. Perhaps the Nika fruit has the ability to break Domu Reversi as well as BBs Dark fruit.

[slender fulcrum]

Imu is Vearth.

Vearth means " Earth " for the people of Skypea.

Now that we know that Xebec called Imu " The World " its starting to make a lot of sense.

Vearth (大地ヴァース, Vāsu?, literally meaning "Earth") is the name given to the Blue Planet by the people of Skypiea. By extension, the Skypiean people use the term "vearth" to refer to regular dirt and soil.

Why would the Skypean would name a divinity the same name as the world and make a statue of it at the same time ?

[main galleon]

No its confirmed hes a rat.

[drowsy gate]

'*'In the world... That's right ! And then i will be...''

Believe it or not, but i strongly believe that during the First World, all the planets were connected and habitable, and what Roger said might sound childish judging by how Newgate and Oden reacted, but i really think he said ''King of the universe ! 🌌'' or ''Conquer the entire universe !''

The celestial dragons really look like they are dressed as cosmonauts, what if people could really live in the entire universe at the start ? It might sound childish but that's why i keep believe it's possible

The moon has seas and weird fishes on it, there were space pirates aswell, why would it be space pirates if you can't navigate on the whole solar system ? 🤔

What makes it funnier is the fact that Roger says it whitout even knowing that it's possible to do such a thing

[cloud lagoon]

so naruto was about global warfare and hate, one peice is about climate change and the big oil?

[coral wraith]

the villain

[broken seal]

And capitalism/imperialism

[wild vector]

Big mom has been hinted to be alive since chapter 1050.

If you don't believe my interpretation then at least believe the AI.

If the AI can see a front facing body there, then it's an intentional clue in the drawing.

You can upload the image and ask for yourself, there are no discernable figures anywhere else in the eruption.

If oda left this as a hint for us, then their place in the story isn't over.

[wild vector]

I'm not reading some schizo nonsense

[late elm]

https://tenor.com/view/mirror-gif-7843063

[wild vector]

The post you used is nothing like the ai analysis. Are you that dense dude.

[fierce thorn]

Honestly I think big Mom is cooked, she's played her part and now the family of the Charlottes is in Katakuri's hands who has a deep respect for Luffy. I understand why people think she will come back there are vague sort of hints. But I think that there is no further role for her to play.

Her role was to tie several arcs together which she did very nicely and she had a fitting end for an emperor of the old times. What would her role be going forward? An extra adversary for the One Piece? With Big Mom there the Charlottes wouldn't join Luffys side in the final war to come. But with Katakuri at the helm of the Charlottes he would be more incline to side with Luffy because he knows the type of person Luffy is. (Notice how despite Perospero being injured too on Whole Cake he came to wano, whilst Katakuri never ventured to the land of Samurai with them he knew the outcome that would happen)

Big Credit to big mom though she tied together Thriller bark, Fishman Island, Whole Cake and Wano and Elbaph

[calm shore]

GUYS SINCE SHAMROCK HAVE DIFFERENT VOICE ACTOR, DOESN'T THAT MEAN IT WAS SHANKS HOW MET WITH GOROSEI ?

[fierce thorn]

Yeah Shanks went to discuss BB didn't he? Shanks has been doing the rounds with BB warnings to all

[wild vector]

I don't have an answer to any of that , that would appease you enough to agree with the theory as it's all unknown.

However just look at the images.

[real kestrel]

Why is it that the Elders never turned anyone else into a demon on God Valley. It can't be the strength of their will stopping them because all other people who have been turned have strong wills and it cant be something with the D clan that has been talked about before since Rocks got turned. So, why is it that they don't turn anyone else?

[cold mist]

Good point

[fringe hemlock]

just like Rocks, Shanks being a stand up guy is what makes him susceptible to WG control imo

[thick field]

So, this is a theory... WHAT IF Davy D. Jones is a close friend to Joyboy. This might sound random but get this... What If Davy and Joyboy fought alongside each other against Imu. It has been clear that Luffy is clearly Joyboy and Blackbeard carry's the blood of Davy.. so just like Joyboy and Davy, Blackbeard and Luffy will fight together against Imu... Damn.

[neon hazel]

Bro that’s actually a wild theory but kinda 🔥
If Joyboy + Davy = Luffy + Teach, then that means the final war isn’t just good vs evil, it’s two inherited wills teaming up 😳

And lowkey… the whole “Davy Back Fight” being a goofy pirate game might’ve been a real ancient tradition between Joyboy’s crew and Davy’s crew. Oda hiding it in plain sight.

Imagine the plot twist if Blackbeard lowkey hates Imu too, not for justice, but because he wants the throne himself. And Luffy’s like “idc about the throne, I just wanna free everyone.”
So they team up… for completely different goals.

Joyboy fought for freedom.
Davy fought for dominance.
Luffy fights for freedom.
Blackbeard fights for power.

Same alliance, different dreams. Oda would 100% cook with that 😭🔥

[turbid trail]

I think the issue we are seeing for the final confrontation is that luffys side is just… massive

All of whole cake island
All of wano
All of his fleet
Fishman island/poseidon
minks
vinsmokes
revolutionary army
All the nations hes saved
Elbaf

I think big mom will come back, maybe kaido too. But not so that her crew will fight against luffy, its clear that katakuri respects luffy and will fight with him

I think she comes back and will get domi reversi’d, like rocks did, and it will take the whole of her crew to fight her off

[swift cosmos]

Okay based on @wild vector speculation on Franky's mom, I now have another theory. Gloriosa probably donated some of her DNA to MADS to figure out why the Kuja only seem to give birth to girls.

[abstract dust]

D just might mean destiny

[neon hazel]

And the craziest part? If that’s true, then the real question isn’t “Will Luffy beat Blackbeard?”
It’s “When does the alliance fall apart?”
Because the moment Imu is gone, their goals clash instantly.

[swift cosmos]

Because MADS was researching leinage factor (DNA) around that time, they did manage to clone stussy sucessfuly

[thick field]

Daaamn. That's kinda cool.. I'd love to see that in the story tho. Oda's cooking up smth for sure tho.

[thick field]

Yaa... maybe after Imu VS Lufy & BB, then we get to see Luffy VS. Blackbeard, instead of on Laugh Tale. This would be better, instead of clashing for Pirate King.. '

[thick field]

That's kinda like Naruto VS Sasuke after sealing Kaguya.. and remember Oda acknowledged Naruto. So, this is how it *could * go..

[neon hazel]

Imu is the Kaguya of One Piece, but Teach is the Sasuke — the real final boss energy 😭🔥

[thick field]

Yaaa... that's straight up cookin' man..

[neon hazel]

Facts bro, Oda been slow-cooking this twist since Jaya 😭
We all thought Blackbeard was the “endgame villain,” but imagine he’s actually the last obstacle to Luffy’s dream, not the last threat to the world.

Imu = the hidden tyrant
Teach = the rival who wants the throne after the tyrant falls
Luffy = the guy who doesn’t want the throne at all

That triangle is way more peak than a simple “Luffy beats evil dude → become Pirate King.”

If Imu is the world’s final boss, Teach is Luffy’s final boss. Two different fights, two different stakes. That’s the real hype route.

[thick field]

Bro... Jaya was peak 🔥 especially introduced Teach as a foodie guy in disguise.. Chef's Kiss man.. and I could actually see that happening man. True One Piece fashion. Some ppl don wanna have all the dopamine from these brain-wrecking theories man... SHEESH

[olive dragon]

Probably a dumb question. But what is Rocks' name?
Rocks D Xebec, or Rocks Davy Xebec..? Is 'Davy' more of like a clan than a name..?

[neon hazel]

His actual name is Rocks D. Xebec. “Davy” isn’t canon — it’s a fan theory based on the Davy Back Fight being connected to Rocks’ era.

[brisk otter]

I think usopp's long nose is just based on pinocchio

[broken seal]

Have you caught up on the manga? His name is Davy D Xebec

[thick field]

Yeah bro.. and Davy is Canon. But ppl call him Rocks tho..

[broken seal]

People also call Sakazuki ‘Akainu’. It’s how we’re were introduced to him and everyone knows who you’re talking about if you say ‘Rocks’

[neon hazel]

Davy Back Fight = canon, yeah.
But ‘Davy’ has never been confirmed as part of Rocks’ name. His official name is still just Rocks D. Xebec.

[broken seal]

You need to go back and reread the last 4 or 5 chapters. You’ve missed some major developments. I don’t want to fully spoil you if you’ve missed it

[neon hazel]

I’ve read the latest chapters, that’s why I’m asking for the actual panel.
If Oda really changed Rocks’ name to “Davy D. Xebec,” just send the page and I’ll admit I missed it.

[broken seal]

First there was Rocks meeting with Harald on the way to GV, that’s when he first revealed “Rocks” was a fake name and he was actually “Davy”. Then he revealed that he was a descendant of Davy Jones. You also had the CD’s rounding up anyone named “Davy”, including Rock’s parents. Eris running away with Teech because the Davy name has to live on etc. Idk how you missed all of it

[jovial notch]

Chapter 1159 page 13 on shonen jump app

[weary atlas]

luffy is going to fall in love with hancock, hancock dies, and luffy becomes robosexual and marries hancocks seraphim instead

[little stag]

Fire theory

[proven pond]

Guys i think i might have solve the meaning of the wlall painting in elbaf

[fringe hemlock]

Aight so look, I think Usopp is a descendant of Davy Jones. He shares BB’s curly hair, long nose, and eyelashes, and the first time Davy Jones’s name was uttered was even in Syrup Village. Usopp would basically be to Davy Jones what Luffy is to Joyboy, and him being descended from an ancient pirate king of the world would be a lot like his father being one of Shanks’s crewmates, especially if DJ was on JB’s crew. Also, the fact that Imu disputes Davy’s King of the World title implies that to the Celestial Dragons, Davy is remembered as a liar, like Noland but, more importantly, like Usopp. The main reason I believe this, though, is because I think DJ is based on the biblical king of Israel, King David.

King David was a talented musician and a soldier, much like Soul King Brook, who has curly hair and eyes that have never been shown, which would make sense if he has long eyelashes that would betray his own Davy Jones resemblance. King David is also the ancestor of Jesus. Usopp has been posed like Jesus on the cross in multiple self sacrificial moments, like in his fights against Ms Merry Christmas or Sugar. If Usopp represents Jesus, Davy Jones being his ancestor would explain the King David inspo, and would also make Blackbeard like his antichrist.

Another interesting detail about King David is that he succeeded his king after said king’s death. This parallels Brook and Jinbe, who were both the captains of their crews previous to joining Luffy, and inherited their previous captains’ roles after their deaths. This could tell us that Davy Jones inherited his role from the previous king of the world who he originally fought under.

Thinking of Brook as a Davy Jones foreshadowing character could also tell us that Imu was Davy Jones’s Laboon. Both Imu and Laboon have solid black blob bodies with only their eyes showing, and both also seem to have worlds inside them, with Imu’s being the abyss. I have more to say about this but I’ll leave it here for now.

[late elm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1261165091596931267/1432493598540042413/1761600599455323.png?ex=690a7ba0&is=69092a20&hm=0a7ebd76be16fe83eb90bfaf12ab58e4fe0fbe1737a0a7f3683ad029c3f2a651&

[fringe hemlock]

This just made me realize something major!!! The thing that made Imu come to God Valley was the idea that “something new may be born there” and Rocks’s main victory there was securing the safety of his son. When Imu calls Rocks Davy Jones, and Rocks responds with “who are you more scared of, Davy Jones or Joyboy” it could be hinting at the fact that Imu is more scared of Blackbeard than of Rocks, and by proxy that Joyboy is Rocks’s SON.

Gunko said that what she feared most was Nika, and we know that Joyboy used the Nika form, so that line could be a hint towards all that too.

[proven pond]

Has anyone solved the meaning of the wall painting in elbaf

[fringe hemlock]

In the Argonautica, the mc is the captain of his ship and one of his crewmates is his father, so Joyboy being the first pirate and his father being Davy Jones, another pirate, could just mean his father joined his crew.

It could be like Icarus and Daedalus, where they break out of prison together with the wax wings but Icarus falls i to the sea. Their whole dilemma was that it was illegal for anyone to sail without the permission of their enslaver King Minos, so they had to fly. If you were to mentally set their story as the start of history, if Icarus were to survive his fall and get on a ship, he would become the first pirate and could reunite with his father later.

[late elm]

I think you would love talking to this guy. https://vxtwitter.com/boss_aesop?s=21&t=DLGEvVlL4v8YUQSenbcRxw

[fringe hemlock]

Daedalus designed the labyrinth that housed the Minotaur, and could barely escape it himself, with King Minos initially imprisoning Daedalus for knowing the escape route. The grand line is essentially a labyrinth, since all paths lead to the same place, and Hinokizu could be the Minotaur in a sense. All that is to say, what if Davy D Jones created the grand line?

Picture this: Oda combines King Minos and King Saul (King Davids predecessor) into a King of the World and has Davy Jones be the Daedalus / David. The King could have hired Davy Jones to create the grand line, summoning him like a devil / soldier and making a deal. The King doesn’t fulfill their end of the deal and instead imprisons him in Impel Down, and then his son Joyboy frees him. They then have to go through the Grand Line in order to escape, the King of the world is killed, either by his daughters or Davy himself (like King Minos), and Davy inherits his throne, aka the Empty Throne. Davy’s rule was the start of the VC, and Joyboy’s death, mirroring that of Icarus, was the end. If Joyboy died trying to escape the grand line, The D clan could be the members of the Argonauts-esque crew and their descendants, including the captain and his father.

The whole story is full of allusions to Icarus and Daedalus. One that comes to mind is a cover with Brook and some ants, which could reference the story of King Minos presenting a spiral sea shell and instructing people to guide a thread through it, a riddle that Daedalus solved by typing the thread to an ant. This could be seen as a metaphor for how Daedalus repeatedly caused the deaths of children who achieved greater heights than him, first killing his nephew and apprentice out of jealousy, and then giving Icarus the wings that killed him. Devil fruits could bee seen as the wings in this case, where Davy Jones and Joyboy both ate fruits but Icarus fell to the sea curse. Maybe Davy causing Icarus to become a pirate is also part of that metaphor. Jus spitballing.

[mighty falcon]

All I do is cook

[fringe hemlock]

earlier i said Argonautica but i meant the Aeneid

[fringe hemlock]

@slate burrow @remote silo

[fringe hemlock]

Astro boy is an Icarus allusion so Joyboy being based on him would make Davy Jones the guy who made him

gonna cut that tangent short to avoid spoiler shit but it’d explain all the cyborg shit, Franky is a cyborg who runs around in his underwear

Joyboy = Icarus after the fall, resurrected as a cyborg

King David brought 200 heads (or originally foreskins) as a gift to King Saul, I could see Davy Jones being a doctor n having the Op Op fruit, since Law’s 100 hearts thing could reference both King David’s thing and Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean having his heart in a chest

honestly him using the eternal youth surgery on his dead son would explain so much, especially Law’s whole dynamic with Corazon

Oda reffing Astroboy heavily would also explain him referencing more deep cut Tezuka books like Vampire n Alabaster

i just fucking remembered that Astroboy was the robot clone of his creator’s dead son

thats literally the Shamrockuba theory bruh, a replacement for a dead son, THATS why Garling is a scientist n looks like Duke Red from… Astroboy

[remote silo]

I can definitely see Usopp being a descendant of Davy Jones. Your analysis is strengthened, imo, by the fact that Usopp has never relinquished his captain title despite being on Luffy’s crew. Davy and Joyboy could have had a similar dynamic.

Maybe Davy was a tontatta instead of Joyboy. Only saying this cause I never thought about their nose similarities before but you’re right, they are.

I’m of the mind that this whole adventure is the final loop where the wheel is finally broken, but it’s not the first such adventure. So if we want to extrapolate parallels with a hypothetical Joyboy crew, Davy being his Usopp makes a lot of sense, with some pretty big implications. Perhaps the Davy back fight is actually a means by which to combat Domi reversi, and he was actually trying to get his demon’d crewmates back, for instance.

I’m onboard

[fringe hemlock]

glad to hear it twin, i expand more on the allusion below btw

i agree, i been thinking Davy Back Fights originate from the desire to literally get Davy back. an idea that jus spawned in my head is if we think if DJ as the Brook to Imu’s Laboon, with the abyss as the internal world, Davy Jones could be the proverbial Crocus. what if Davy is in the Abyss and therefore is in Imu?

[spiral bridge]

yo what if davy and joyboy were friends like luffy and vivi, joyboy was kind of a trouble maker so he set out as a pirate? what if the one piece is something that was the core of ancient kingdom's prosperity that davy gave to joyboy to hide at the verge of defeat? what if joyboy made a promise that he'll return someday to defeat the 20 king alliance? so even after the collapse without the core, the 20 kingdoms were not able to be technologically advanced because the one piece is missing? maybe that is why the government also want to find it? what if imu's world is incomplete because if they had it they can rule the world more efficiently/ easily? maybe joyboy tried to help davy but zunesha fucked up?

[coral wraith]

Are you keeping up with the comics?

[neon hazel]

Aight, that panel settles it — “Davy D. Xebec” is officially real. I just hadn’t seen the chapter yet. Good catch.

[neon hazel]

!pics

[lone hedge]

You are able to post pictures after you reach level 10. Check your level by typing ?rank in #bots.

[slate burrow]

I was thinking teach and Blackbeard were uncle and nephew due to their similar designs but both being Davy descendants in general is a good way to pay it off too

[fleet cloak]

nika fruit user the only person unaffected by inu's reversi power, if not why Inu so scare about people awaken the fruit if she can just convert him?

[fathom matrix]

You know what's funny.

The sbs of bad time vivi might confirm a theory of the 20 families may have been pirates

Cause there's a repeated history of pirates or invaders becoming rulers of a country/land.

Enel with skypeia, Crocodile with alabaster doflamingo with dressrora and kaido being the one to realistically rule wano

Vivi in the evil timeline has her as a pirate THEN a celestial dragon, so this makes me think that a majority of world nobels were pirates and that's one of many secrets that they do not want letting out.

Heck

[steady prism]

!theories @main galleon please ask questions like that in #manga

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[remote silo]

Go back even further to Syrup Village. It’s all about a pirate trying to erase his past as a pirate, with everyone who helps with this being expendable. I’ve always felt that was the closest story we’ve gotten to the origins of the WG

[coral wraith]

Understand the model

[steady prism]

What are you talking about

[fringe hemlock]

has anyone else considered the possibility of Eris being the Kinemon to BB’s Momonosuke? the person initially presented as a parent who turns out to be a loyal follower of the father. as usual im wary of assuming anything and nobody has said or impied that Eris gave birth to Teech yet, only that she and Rocks are in love. im always keeping that Xebec Sobek thing in mind, he absolutely will be revealed as a womanizer. its only a matter of time before Oda gives up Shanks being BBs mother who abandoned him for his looks. Loki was, and then was taken in by his father’s true love, along with their other kid. If I’m right abt the Tar in Eris D Tar being short for Nefertari, Buggy being Eris and Rocks’s kid would explain his hair n shit, and add irony to him calling BB a monster. it would also be like Shanks stole BBs brother, which could be the source of their rivalry or some shit. idk

[fringe hemlock]

u mean Brook? would be mad interesting, Beook is from the west blue n shit

[slate burrow]

Oh I meant usopp and Blackbeard

[fringe hemlock]

gootchu, yea i wondered the same

[dawn hemlock]

Has anyone here given any serious thought about what possible living thing could have been the wielder of the big sword that we see on elbaph

It might sound silly but i think the wielder of that sword was Zunesha, one of joyboys companions. No other living creature comes close to his size and even the biggest onis are nowhere near big enough to be able to wield that sword. What are your thoughts?

[fringe hemlock]

i feel like the centuries old owl that can grow any object is a huge checkovs gun that is probably involved with the giant ass unwieldable sword

[dawn hemlock]

Yes!! I though of that but what would be the significance of the useage of that owl to just randomly grow a sword. I don't think thats oda's intention at all. He wants us to think and be shocked when we see that sword. I truly think it was used and it is important. It would feel cheap if it was just randomly made big by that owl. I dont think that would fit oda's style in terms of storytelling

[raw laurel]

When it comes to davey jones I think I hade an idea.

Joyboy was the first pirate and many people I’ve seen said this proves he and Davy jones are the same person, personally I don’t see it, maybe Davy was on the same crew or simply he was the 2nd pirate or the whole first pirate thing is going to be bs and retconned later idk.

But it’s not proof.

But I had an idea. What if he wasn’t a pirate at first.

Joyboy was the “first” pirate and went out to sea,

Davey I think might have been more of a bandit type.

He went around formed a gang.

Kidd who I think is a jonesion pirate was a gang leader for some time,

Rocks had shiki and kyo who were gang leaders, ( also Marlon as a mobster )

Rocks himself didn’t actually start off as a pirate, he didn’t raise a flag till several years after he started his campaign.
Sengoku called him more of a terrorist than a pirate.

Luffy who I think carries qualities of both types was raised by bandits and even states he doesn’t like bandits except for dadan.
Hell the first villain in the story was a bandit.

So I’m thinking Davy was more a general criminal who operated on land and that’s where he made his name while joyboy was doing his own thing,

[real kestrel]

I just finished watching a video by Ohara (I would go watch it if you want to know more) and it was talking about how blackbeard might have the powers of the Sun God as well as Luffy and it go me thinking that what if both parts of Nikas power were split into two at one point. Nika is depicted with a sword and sheild. What if luffys power is the sword part and Blackbeards is the Sheild. I mean Blackbeards is obvioulsy more of a defensive fruit that he found ways to use offensivley (it takes away powers and sucks up everything) and it would make sense as a shield and Luffys is mostly offensive where he found a way to turn defensive (literally all he has is flinging bullets back at the shooter). Maybe Davy D. Jones and Joyboy were in the same body for some reason and when they died their devil fruits got split up. Side note: when Rocks died he ended up in Teachs body leading to Blackbeard also using two fruits. I think that the D clan and davy clan have been trying to put both Devil fruits in the same body since the void century and that is why rocks wanted two devil fruits. I beileive that at least one was on Elbaph and Harald had to give it up to join the WG which is how they got possesion of the Gomu Gomu no mi and then they tried killing Harald so no one would know that he gave it away. Also back to blackbeard having two fruits he probably was planning on finding the second nika fruit(gomu gomu no mi) but when he realized it had chosen someone else he decided to go after Luffy and kill him so it would show up somewhere else and he could eat it.

[alpine locust]

im ngl this is really simple but my favorite theory has been doflamingo goes to marieojoa in the chaos of the final war to slaughter the celestial dragons

I think the act would be completely full circle for his character

[neon hazel]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[ivory sluice]

But BB already ate a second fruit so he didnt wait for killing luffy. And i guess he also ignored luffy because of the gomu gomu cover up. Unless he can transfer df powers freely, combining yami and nika powers is not possible

[brisk otter]

Joyboy don't have the initial D. ; But Davy has D. ; Luffy is Joyboy and has an initial D.

[broken seal]

We don’t know that Joyboy doesn’t have the will of D

[sacred folio]

Js a question was Loki a yonko before shanks? And the rzn why shanks became one was because he defeated Loki? N also did shanks do it himself or did he have other giants w him for help

[swift plover]

SBS Davy Jones theory

-# tl;dr: Oda's SBS answer about Davy Jones did not get retconned, and is a clue as to what happened during the ancient war
my theory is that this SBS answer Oda gave about Davy Jones, is meant to be the governmemt-created "cautionary tale" of Davy Jones. This is under the assumption that Davy Jobes was the king of the Ancient Kingdom btw. Here is how I believe it connects:

• "the devil" is probably meant to be Imu (no duh)
• Jones' greediness is meant to reveal Imu's jealousy over how much more prosperous the Ancient Kingdom was (assuming Jones was its king). Davy being seen as greedy was probably an important factor in rallying the other kingdoms to overthrow him.
• "spend eternity on the sea floor" —> Imu flooding the world, engulfing his kingdom
• the way he was labeled a pirate, was likely either to further demonize him to the public (since "pirate = bad"), or it could be due to Joyboy, "the first pirate", (possibly) being a former citizen of the kingdom
• the drawing might just be meant to depict him as pathetic, while the actual man looked way different. I do however believe his teeth, lashes and posession of a bushy beard are accurate, as they match Blackbeard's somewhat
  Even though his story came from the mouth of the author, I believe it is in-world propaganda

[prime sentinel]

How come xebec's soul could end up in teach's body and acc to this u are saying that when imu reffered to xebec as davy davy's soul was in xebec's body?
I believe imu called xebec davy for 2 possible reasons

1. he looked like davy
2. he had made his crew by winning davy back fights and had truly inherited the will of davy

[pure raven]

Are these y’all theories or just from what you’ve heard from others?

[amber lotus]

I feel like there’s a reason why we don’t know Usopp’s or Buggy’s last name. In relation, I also feel like there’s a significance as to why Franky’s poster doesn’t show his actual face and some implication to Franky not going by his real name that could tie into Buggy’s history (they both have blue hair and their origins are a mystery/vague). I feel like Franky might have a Sanji-situation going on where there’s someone out there looking for him but because he goes by a fake name and the wanted poster doesn’t really depict him, that someone keeps missing where to find Franky.

[wild vector]

Buggy's lineage will probably tie into the muggy kingdom some how.

As for Franky. Once he used the radical beam on fishman island his bounty picture switched to the general Franky. Then once he used the radical beam while inside of the general Franky(during wano) it got switched to the sunny.

It's possible the government is intentionally obscureing his image so people don't get their hands on the vegapunk laser technology.

[trail urchin]

Isn't queen Franky's dad though

maybe that's why him not being shown in the wanted posters is not a coincidence, about buggy I don't really think the hair is enough to give it away, plus he's old like 40 iirc and queen was around 50s, very unlikely that buggy and Franky are siblings

[trail urchin]

what's the muggy kingdom?

[idle geyser]

Has anyone here played Digimon Story: Time Stranger, I have a One Piece related theory, but do not want to spoil Time Stranger to anyone still playing it.

What if there was a Conqueror's Haki clash so strong, it caused an inferno of haki and anybody swept up in is sent years into the past?

[soft urchin]

I had a theory Luffy gets swept into the past and it turns out he himself was Gol D Roger, which would explain why young Roger looks so much like Luffy and how he got the straw hat.

[idle geyser]

I was implying going back in time 800 years. The Shinjuku Inferno was 8 years into the past.

[remote silo]

I think it’s more likely Luffy would be a clone of Roger than being stuck in a time loop. Also, I simply choose to believe Toki that you can only travel forward through time

[queen hull]

no shit marcos full name is MARCO POLO

[jovial berry]

Still waiting to see how shanks and shamrock end up where they are

[west summit]

Both of your theories are shit, no way Luffy going back to the past neither he is a clone, one piece would deadass be the worst series ever if that were the case

[short pilot]

This guy, the previous owner of Horo Horo no Mi? Hollow-Hollow Fruit?

[remote silo]

yeah I don't subscribe Luffy being a clone, I was simply saying that it would be much more likely than a time loop theory if you want to go down that route. I would be incredibly mad if the solution is time traveling to the past, so I choose to take Toki at her word

[somber isle]

I bet we are going to see domi reversi akainu in final battle.

[swift cosmos]

Gil Bastar

[west summit]

The dude already fuckin evil bruh

[amber lotus]

Where did you get info that makes you think Queen is Franky’s dad? I don’t think Queen is related to Franky at all. Buggy and Franky are about 2-3 years apart

[mint jacinth]

https://gamerant.com/one-piece-new-oda-sbs-franky-father-queen/

[vale aspen]

I know Buggy’s lineage and it’s actually pretty flipping insane.

[wild vector]

The muggy kingdom is what gloom island is called. Aka where Zoro spent is timeskip

Buggy named his weapon the muggy ball which I believe is after the kingdom itself.

[vale aspen]

Buggy and Shanks are none other than opposites from one another. They are both the Children of Destiny. Shanks was born Figarland Shanks, son of Figarland Garling and the Red-Headed Lady from God Valley. Shanks was raised as a Pirate even though he was born a Tenryuubito. He is an important figure for the Dawn of the World, as it was Shanks sacrifice that led Luffy on his quest to become the Pirate King.

Buggy was the first proper enemy that Luffy came across in his journey, and the Bara Bara no Mi was the first devil fruit besides Luffy’s that we see. Why is Buggy the first enemy we see Luffy kind of struggle with?

Buggy’s real name and lineage is none other than Nerfertari D. Buggy, a descendant of the Queen of Alabasta in the Void Century, Nerfertari D. Lili.

Lili was also the original user of the Bara Bara no Mi, and she had awakened it. There is a reason why Buggy ACCIDENTALLY swallowed the fruit. The soul of the Bara Bara no Mi traveled through the centuries and chose Buggy as he was a descendant of her.

That means that Buggy as a D. who was originally a Tenryuubito is polar opposite to Shanks.

After the Twenty Kingdoms won the battle against the Great Kingdom, the monarchs of those nations moved to the Red Line/Mariejois to become Tenryuubito. Lili escaped because she was secretly on Joyboy’s side, and had to hide from Imu and the WG. In her absence, Imu believes she disappeared/died and even her younger brother did not know what happened to her.

In reality, Lili secretly founded the nation of what is now known as Amazon Lily in the Calm Belt, and likely stayed there to protect her people from Imu. That’s why the legend of the Gorgon living in the Central Sea exists. Lili created it to discourage her people from heading out towards the Red Line, as the Gorgon was none other than Imu.

Back to my original point, Lili eventually died on Amazon Lily and her descendants lived on through the Kuja Tribe, or known as English as the Tribe of the Nine Snakes.

All babies born on Amazon Lily are always girls; however, during the time of God Valley incident, one of the babies born to a woman of Amazon Lily was a boy. Due the nature of their homeland, the mom could not take her baby back to Amazon Lily. So what did she do? She contacted the only other people she could trust: the Roger Pirates. This is also hinted at Gloriosa tagging along with the Roger Pirates. Lili’s descendant must’ve met with them just like Shakky, Tritoma and Gloriosa.

Lili’s descendant gives the baby to the Roger and baby is none other than Nerfertari D. Buggy.

The rest is history. Thanks for reading.

[amber lotus]

Thank you! Kinda disappointed there wasn’t a more significant interaction between Queen and Franky during wano! That’s like a prime moment lol

[swift cosmos]

Yes, it seems that it was confirmed in the SBS

[mint jacinth]

if oda drops too much lore one piece will go for another 100 years! 👀

[swift cosmos]

I do have to ask again, who saw Dawn and Dusk latest video

[vale aspen]

Read my post. It makes perfect sense and now we know how Buggy has the same potential as Shanks.

[swift cosmos]

Link it please

[vale aspen]

Right here. if you want the link to the dawn and dusk video I’ll dm.

[mint jacinth]

link the video. buggy does hve blue hair 👀

[vale aspen]

https://youtu.be/_AosscYiUSk?si=sgMvgcuhyAHmx7tU - The mystery is finally solved. Each Yonko is from a legendary lineage.

[swift cosmos]

You can easilly explain why that kija lady had a boy

[mint jacinth]

i just love all the theories

[vale aspen]

Remember. Only girls are born on Amazon Lily. It doesn’t mean Kuja women can’t have boys. They just can’t have them in Amazon Lily. That’s the secret to Buggy, and I think Luffy as well.

[fringe hemlock]

I tested the idea of chapter 22 as the blueprint for a one piece character archetype that culminates with Davy D Jones. This archetype would contain Gaimon, Franky, Blackbeard, Kalgara, Cricket, Jinbei, Kyros, and basically anyone who resembles those characters. I think Davy Jones was the fierce defender of his kingdom and essentially treated it like his locker, with it containing not only what he treasures (his people, family, friends etc) but also some older, unattainable treasure, which he ends up consumed by in some way. I wanna go thru how each page serves as the base for other characters, especially Rocks and Joyboy

[swift cosmos]

Assuming that the ladies on the kuja pirates were spending efforts to find out what happened to Shakky, they may have forgot to pick up one of their sisters after they got pregnant to have their birth on the island

[vale aspen]

Thus Lily never died, she hid herself from Imu and the rest of the world in order to spread the poneglyphs via her awakened Bara Bara no Mi. She also created Amazon Lily as a way to create the perfect conditions for Joyboy to return. Lili is the legendary Great Matriarch that kick started the Dawn of the World.

[swift cosmos]

So after they get off of God valley Either expect them to go back to Harald or see the Roger Pirates give Shakky back to The Kuja

[swift cosmos]

There is no way that Love sicknesss was a thing that came about naturally

And since it seems literal magic circles are a thing in this story, I can imagine that Lili performed some sort of spell to only allow female births

[vale aspen]

That’s why she’s the esteemed Mother on Kuma’s Bible. And that’s why Buggy will be the God of the World while Vivi is its Queen.

[swift cosmos]

Because we also have to ask another question, do people honestly think that the Kuja don't accept recruits to live on the island?

[vale aspen]

The women must’ve came from somewhere before they became the Kuja. Maybe they were the descendants of those who lived in the Great Kingdom.

[swift cosmos]

If any of them get pregnant and have birth on that island, would they always have girls? (This is a rethorical question mods)

[vale aspen]

Maybe those who are on the island, yes. But those who get pregnant out on the sea might give birth to a boy.

[fierce thorn]

I know this chapter is an exciting one but we still have 1 more crew member to join Luffys 10.
So I am going to put my money down on it being Marco the Pheonix.

So why Marco?

Whitebeards will at the end was for them to support Luffy.
Ace's will was to see Luffys dream come true.

So Marco taking both of these on would carry those lines further.

Shanks attempted to recruit Marco and I think it would be really fun for him to have refused Shanks to want to join Luffy.

Plus when Luffy called for him to come to Wano he showed up.

He's sort of filling the role Jimbe had in gaining relevance whilst showcasing how well he fits into the straw hats whilst not going to far.

Also there's one piece of the crew missing that would have been on most ships, a look out. There's no one that specifically fills that role and some will say usopp but he is the one that would man the cannons as the Gunner in my opinion.

And I think the crew with him on would be extremely well rounded.

Luffy - Caption
Zoro - First Mate
Nami - Navigator
Usopp - Gunner
Sanji - Chef
Chopper - Medic
Robin - Archaeologist
Franky - Shipwright
Brook - Musician
Jimbe - Helmsman
Then Marco - crows nest (or a pheonix nest 😛 )

[mint jacinth]

i would not be opposed to this!

its so hard to decide who would/can be the 10th member. there are so many candidates, and it could LITERALLY be anyone of them. vivi, loki, you can theorize on so many characters

[fierce thorn]

I know but look at how he showed up on Wano protecting Nami, supporting Sanji and Zoro. I think personally Wano was what Fishman island was to Jimbe, showing how well they support each other before their inevitable capture by Luffy's refusal to take no for an answer lmao

[vale aspen]

Didn’t Marco reject Shanks because he didn’t want to babysit a great pirate anymore? Luffy is now a great pirate. Would Marco really join? Maybe if he needed to save Weevil from Impel Down under Stussy’s insistence, but I think narratively speaking, it makes more sense if Loki, Vivi or Yamato join the crew. Vivi was a crewmate but she left in order to serve her nation.

I see Marco as a supporting character for Luffy. My two cents there.

[fierce thorn]

Well I think Marco was just pulling Shanks leg and making fun of him.

And well would Marco join? Luffy called him at Wano and he arrived.

But that's just who my money's on, I used to be a Loki fan but he's too big for the ship and well princes and princesses usually want to join but stay on their island. Yamato is following Odens footsteps atm and Vivi is possible but what role within the crew would she fit?

And Marco being a supporting character to luffy is what makes him crew material 😄 the whole crew are Luffys supporting characters 😄 But I am interested to see what Vivi's plans are

[vale aspen]

I think Vivi will be found out by The WG sooner rather than later, and that will be the justification for Vivi to join back. Also if Marco joins, that would be sick. They would have a second doctor lol

[fierce thorn]

I honestly agree there, if I'm looking at the pieces we have Vivi and Morgans heading egghead way.

Greenbull was last off Wano and Magma ass had a mission for him I'm pretty sure because he was trying to contact him.

You got Marco going with Buckingham towards the marinebase to try and get Weevil.

It could be possible Greenbull nabs Vivi so the Strawhats have to go rescue her as Marco is trying to Rescue Weevil bringing those 3 lines together.

[vale aspen]

What about the role that Cross Guild will play? Maybe there’s a juxtaposition of Cross Guild recruiting new members from Impel Down and Marco and Stussy saving Weevil. That could lead to Buggy using his god charisma to convince Weevil to join. Then there’s a battle between Green Bull and Cross Guild. Could be cool.

I still think the former Warlords will be crew mates under Buggy.

[fierce thorn]

They with collect the warlords I feel

And I just had a really good thought about the point of this flashback.

Because what if everything we heard about Harolds death was true.

Like we've been suspecting maybe harold was reversi'd or stuff like that.

But what if Loki had a fate like Rocks where he was reversed and sent after his own people. Sure Loki is strong but I don't think a normal loki could fight all of Elbaph and Shanks. But a Demonized Loki I could see it happening too. And they chained him up because they didn't want to kill him.

[vale aspen]

That would make me cry to be honest.

[remote coral]

I like to think that what made roger and his crew laugh at raftel was the presence of the infamous bottle of "bink's sake". and the cups that joyboy and his friends drank to form the first pirate crew. And if that theory were to be real, I'd believe that luffy's true dream would actually be to share a sake cup with everyone in the world.

[mint jacinth]

nice. how does one do this xD

[remote coral]

Who knows? Pretty sure luffy's crew wondered that too when he told his true dream.

[mint jacinth]

i guess thats what makes it funnny GABABABABABABABABABABA

[high briar]

if that's true it means there is a way to de-domi reversi characters that shanks know

[vale aspen]

It’s been staring at us the whole time. The real name of Joyboy is Binks

[fierce thorn]

It could very well be the chains wrapped around him. Like how they weakened the devil fruits power, they could weaken the hold of the power Imu holds. And the only chains we have are holding Loki so with him free that could be a method of capturing them until they calm down.

[high briar]

meaning the moment they free him it goes fuckin wrong

[fierce thorn]

That is one possibility, or they can use those chains to gather the reversi'd other giants up

[trail urchin]

Oda basically confirmed it in the latest sbs

[regal raptor]

What if dragon saved some davy clan or d clan that day

[novel scroll]

We think that Polo is Marco's dad, but what if Polo is actually Marco himself.
Phoenix has the power to be reborn as a baby when they're dead, what if Polo already have the Phoenix fruit and he died at some point, then he reborn as Marco.

[remote coral]

wait a minute you might be onto something

[worn peak]

Yeah it can be

[vale aspen]

I knew it. The true hidden power of the Tori Tori no Mi: Model Phoenix - the power to infinitely regenerate from death. Marco might be way older then we think.

[fleet cloak]

I read some theory that imu's domi reversi means I return to home, so only works in victim home?

[cerulean coyote]

The translation is more like "do a 180 from home"

[hasty stag]

so im rewatching op with my lil brother and were at dress Rosa

and i just saw dofy saying he knows what the secret treasures of mary geoise
do we know what's the secret treasure?

[neon hazel]

Doflamingo did talk about Mary Geoise’s secret treasure — and yeah, we know it exists … but we don’t know what it is yet.
Tons of theories out there (giant straw hat, ancient relics, world-shaking power) but nothing has been revealed as canon.

[haughty shale]

probably the giant straw hat, but it's definitely something dangerous enough that doflamingo can still blackmail the celestial dragons with

[neon hazel]

Still don’t know exactly what the treasure is yet, though — just this big reveal of it being super dangerous.

[neon hazel]

yea just a straw hat cant blackmail them, u know, something extremly powerful is there i guess

[broken seal]

Front runner idea is Imu

[hasty stag]

alright thanks

[remote silo]

Whatever the treasure is, strong case it’s connected to Doffy’s desire for immortality so that he can use it

[hasty stag]

didnt he want laws fruit for that ?

[remote silo]

Yep! By how much he focused on it, it really sounds like knowing what the treasure is is only half of what you need. I think it implies that the treasure requires immortality, probably because without it using the treasure will kill its user. That's been my guess, anyway. And we know Imu is immortal (in some shape or form), so it isn't too crazy a thought

[copper hare]

My theory of Akainu being redeemed:
His Daughter will do something
or work along Koby
which would be against the navy
and akainu will have to make a choice to kill his daughter or not
when he doesen't kill her daughter
People will see the humanity in him
(So far I see him as a do or die justice maniac)

[craggy apex]

'Redemption' is a curious concept to apply to One Piece, as a lot of characters don't make reparations for horrific past actions but evolve as people all the same.

And I don't think affection for his daughter would stop Luffy or Sabo from trying to destroy Akainu.

[cold violet]

After seeing the last chapter. What are the chances using haki makes domi reverse work/stronger and the way to beat its influence is either use no haki, have the devil fruit that defines freedom (nika), or the devil fruit that nullified abilities (yami)

[gritty kite]

Giants seem to have some special blood (ancient giants even look like Domi reversed giants). Buccaneers and Davy clan seem to be related or maybe the same and buccaneers are said to have giant blood. It seems to be bloodline based.

[keen trellis]

Davy D. Usopp Theory

My proposal is not that Usopp is literally a descendant of the Davy bloodline, but rather that he is the reincarnation of Davy—just as Luffy is framed as the reincarnation or successor of Joy Boy and Nika. Increasingly, Oda appears to be establishing narrative parallels between Joy Boy’s original crew and the Straw Hats. Ryuma parallels Zoro. Lili parallels Vivi. Emet can be read as a Franky analogue. Zunesha’s counterpart remains uncertain. But then we have Davy Jones—a historically renowned pirate, described as a “king” during Joy Boy’s era.

The key question becomes: what was Davy’s relationship to Joy Boy? If they were rivals, akin to Luffy and Blackbeard, what purpose would that rivalry serve? Joy Boy is framed as the first pirate; why would Davy, supposedly a king, abandon his position to compete with him? That lack of narrative utility pushes me toward the stronger interpretation: Davy was not Joy Boy’s rival—he was part of Joy Boy’s crew.

This reframes Davy’s identity. Imu’s claim that Davy “was not a king” would then be ironically accurate. He may not have been a king at all, but instead a prince destined for a throne who chose, in the interim, to voyage the world as a pirate at Joy Boy’s side. In this reading, Davy was the Usopp of Joy Boy’s crew.

The way Oda frames Luffy and Usopp’s dynamic—deep friendship, comedic friction, mutual respect, and occasional emotional conflict—resembles how Joy Boy and Davy’s partnership could have looked. Two close friends from the Great Kingdom set out to explore the world, inviting others to join them and spreading the message of their homeland. Although Joy Boy was the captain, Davy—royalty or not—often butted heads with him out of ego and entitlement.

Davy himself would have been a liar, a scaredy-cat, a storyteller, and an entertainer. His exaggerated tales would have brought joy to the crew and helped unify them—just like Usopp. He was not the strongest fighter, but he was the crew’s emotional glue.

This harmony breaks with the rise of Imu’s propaganda, which incites global tension and ultimately ignites the world war against the Great Kingdom. Joy Boy is forced to make a difficult strategic decision: let the kingdom fall to prevent an even greater catastrophe. This devastates Davy. It leads to a rupture between the two friends and Davy’s departure from the crew.

From here, Davy’s story becomes darker. Driven by grief and rage, he begins recruiting the strongest individuals he can find. To do this, he invents the Davy Back Fight—games of absurd contests that allow him to “win” elite crew members. When he gathers enough strength, he challenges Imu and the twenty kingdoms. It is during this period that Imu may acquire the “satanic” Devil Fruit and domi reverse Davy’s momentum. Imu reportedly defeats him and condemns him to the depths of the ocean, where he drowns.

Joy Boy eventually confronts Imu as well, but dies, allowing Imu to seize global rule. Davy’s descendants (or at least those who preserved his legacy) end up on God Valley, retelling mythologized versions of Davy’s exploits. Over generations, Davy’s overblown stories—born from his own habit of lying—morph into legends. Rocks, Teach, and various pirates see him as a fearsome pirate king, but in truth, he was a well-meaning, overmatched goofball—just like Usopp.

Even Usopp’s physical design parallels the Davy figures we’ve seen: the dark curly hair, the lips, the long nose. These traits are rare in One Piece, which makes the visual callback noteworthy.

This brings us to the core question: why Usopp? What is his purpose thematically? The Water Seven Saga provides a compelling answer. The entire saga begins with the Davy Back Fight—a narrative clue. Who motivates Luffy during the final round? Usopp. In Water Seven, we witness what I believe is a foreshadowed reenactment of Joy Boy and Davy’s falling out. Usopp leaves the crew, struggles with his sense of worth, and fractures his bond with Luffy.

Then, at Enies Lobby, Usopp’s greatest moment as “himself”—not as Sogeking—is urging Luffy to rise again. His words are the catalyst for Luffy’s victory over Lucci and the rescue of Robin. In Post–Enies Lobby, Usopp apologizes and returns, delivering the emotional reconciliation that Joy Boy and Davy never achieved.
This is symbolic confirmation that Luffy, as Joy Boy’s successor, will succeed this time. Not only because Joy Boy’s greatest regret was losing his best friend, but because this time he has Usopp by his side—the very person capable of giving him courage when he needs it most.

Usopp’s gift is not physical strength; it is narrative strength. He creates impossible stories—and then inspires others to make them real. He did this for Kaya, for the children in Syrup Village, for Luffy during the Davy Back Fight, for the crew during Enies Lobby, and even for the nation of Dressrosa during its rebellion.

Usopp is the Straw Hats’ emotional engine, even if it sounds silly. Without him, Luffy cannot save the world. That is why Joy Boy failed: he lost the one person who could keep him moving forward.

Usopp’s final arc will require him to find in himself the courage he so easily gives to others. In Elbaf, he may become the key figure who rallies the giants, inspiring the world’s strongest warriors to enter the final war.

By the end of the story—or even by the end of his life—Usopp will realize that he has fulfilled the lies he once told Kaya. His wild stories will have become true, not because he is inherently powerful, but because he inspired others to make them reality.

In doing so, he will succeed where Davy could not—and complete the arc of Joy Boy’s legacy.

[deep void]

You cooked with this one

[steady prism]

@foggy garnet @celest viper if all you have to contribute is being rude, then this channel isn’t for you. Either engage with the theory (or any other theories above) or go elsewhere

[misty rain]

Zeus is totally a nakama. Lafitte is done. Navigator with a big cloud friend vs a navigator with angelic powers. I mean come on

[misty rain]

Actually yea that’d make sense. But that’d mean the Phoenix fruit had only had one user

[steady prism]

Is this related to some theory?

[misty rain]

It’s called Al Gul

[steady prism]

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by that?

[steady prism]

!theories
@open stone I’m going to view that as a joke theory due to its absurdity. Please use #manga for that, not here
@hardy trench @remote silo @pure raven that’s enough meme-ing

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[pure raven]

My bad

[placid bay]

I just stumbled on this and this seems to be relevant AF considering the new events pre-flashback. Such a subtle foreshadowing that probably noone paid attention to at the time xD

[broken seal]

That’s a good catch. You’re right, it does seem very relevant now. People are speculating wildly about that line, even to the point of saying Brook was a HK

[placid bay]

my only issue with this theory and other similar ones is that IMO brook is too weak

[swift cosmos]

From #manga-serious

If we are to pay attention to the 3 empresses of amazon lily who are still alive, we know all of them survived lovesickness but none of the ways they survived it seem to add up in how they survived it.

Gloriosa: She abandoned the Kuja Pirates outright to get a chance to be with Roger. Seems to have cured her bout of it. However she suffered from it outside of Amazon Lily. (we could count being on the Perfume Yuda as being on Amazon Lily but that's a stretch)

Shakky: Quit the Kuja Pirates (On good terms), opened up a bar on Pirate island yet still suffered from it as can be seen during that Bar scene. Only got over it once she married Reyleigh

Boa: Suffered from Love sickness to the point of being utterly bedridden. However she never had give up being an empress or even leaving the Island. The wiki states that it was accepting her feelings for luffy. Feelings that Luffy never returned back

[ebon bone]

part of a convoy right. A part of a troop that could mean like the Marine Captain level and under a HK

[summer kiln]

Interesting theory but most of what you said also applies to Buggy. But with the difference being Buggy actually amassing power/followers.

[swift cosmos]

(Finishing off my last point) For me, it seems Lovesickness varies from person to person

[broken seal]

Or we could say the resolution of Lovesickness can vary from person to person

[pure raven]

I think luffy still has a form to unlock as said in egghead while luffy was in gear 5 Saturn said that he must
Let him turn back into his original form, which must be some elite joyboy shi idk

[slender fulcrum]

I wrote the exact same message in manga serious a few days ago lol ( yesterday lol )
#manga-serious message

[lone yacht]

Dr. Hiriluk was part of Xebec crew but he had a fight then left the crew and started his own and fought garp then retired then went to drum met chopper and died

[rustic gust]

Seriously

[serene swift]

I think this says everything about how involved Akainu truly is with Imu. That rose especially https://imgur.com/a/xQkVk6N

and yes it seems Imu has some sort of fascination with blue, the SAME blue butterfly always comes on panel. I have a hunch Buggy is somehow involved.

[remote silo]

Also very likely that Lily has blue hair. Gunko is probably the current Lily stand-in. Kinda makes me wonder if Gunko was the Vivi of her generation

[serene swift]

Considering Vivi's dad does NOT have blue hair yea I would say pretty much confirmed that Lily has blue hair.

[remote silo]

If that’s what’s happening with Gunko, that she’s being kept as some kind of pet stand-in for Lily, it’s going to be so chilling. That’s dark

[serene swift]

The latest episode seems to downplay the hype for me a bit, the way Rayleigh say's "don't spoil it for the young ones, they deserve to have their fun" just makes it seem like there is no REAL threat and things are going to be a "dream" or a "true romance novel" rather than some epic good vs evil theme the story is trying to portray.

[serene swift]

So what you think Gunko is like related to 800 void century? Or are you saying gunko is coming from some sort of kingdom where she is the most recent generation of the family.

[remote silo]

I’m not sure what era she is from, other than knowing that her and Brook have crossed paths. I make the leap that that’s when she’s from. She has blue hair, which alongside Imu’s shown obsession with Lily (visiting her portrait often), to me makes it sound like Imu is trying to replace Lily. And this would put Vivi in even more danger if so - she looks like a dead ringer for Lily’s portrait after all

[serene swift]

I hear yuh yea all the goresi use the word "insects" and they use it often and with more recent episode they mention "annoying life forms"

[swift cosmos]

The anime (assuming Oda approved of that current painting) Absolutely supports that idea

[swift cosmos]

What did her mom have?

[swift cosmos]

It isn't called laugh Tale for nothing

[lean shadow]

I just saw a video about the narrator and who it could be and this is my take on it.
I have a theory that the name of this book will be Laugh tale and the one that is reading it is coby to his son and the one that wrote it were straw hats.
Who will sacrifice themselves to take out imu.
It really wouldnt surprise me if what roger found at laugh tale was just a book,maybe the thing that robin was talking about but it wasnt complete and to complete it people from all paths had to reach it and write in it.
And its gonna be a fairy tale cuz after they beat imu there wont be anymore devil fruit abilities.
Maybe the former world being invented haki and gave people haki meanwhile current world being aka mu created devil fruits.
And just based on the naming devil fruits mu has to be dark so the other part has to be light so the former world is a light creature.
So to injure mu you probably need a devil fruit user that also uses haki.
Prob why joyboy and davy jones are so hated by mu.

It would be cliche if the one reading it is someone related to straw hats,but its possible.
But they would know these people existed.

[cosmic fern]

The One Piece wasnt a treasure, but a plan to unite the world. Roger laughed because it was right in front of everyone the whole time, Enies Lobby.
He realized he was too early. The one who could activate that plan — Joy Boy’s real successor — hadn’t been born yet. So he laughed at the irony.

Enies Lobby isn’t normal. There is no night, a bottomless pit, and an unnatural light. Theories say that’s because Joy Boy once protected it from a cataclysm — the same weapon that destroyed Lulusia.

Joy Boy used his power to shield that area, leaving the island scarred. That’s why the World Government built their base there: to cover up the truth and guard what lies beneath, the real One Piece.
Going Merry promised Luffy it would take him to his final destination and then sank at Enies Lobby.

Inside Enies Lobby, two parts of the One Piece are hidden deep below:

1. A Treasure — it symbolizes Joy Boy's promise, ancient and powerful, not gold but proof of the old kingdom's existence.

2. The Final Poneglyph — it tells the real history and how to destroy the Red Line.

When the Red Line falls, the four seas — East, West, North, and South Blue — will merge into one vast ocean, the All Blue.

Fishmen can live on the surface freely.
Sanji’s dream of the All Blue comes true.
Nami can map the world.
Franky built a ship that sailed to the end.
Brook will be reunited with Laboon.
Zoro becomes the best swordsman.
Robin discovers the truth.
Luffy fulfills Joy Boy's promise to bring freedom and unity to all.

The world becomes one connected piece of land and sea.
That’s the real meaning of One Piece.

Why Roger Laughed:
Roger didn’t laugh because it was a joke, but because the treasure wasn’t something one could take; it was something only the right person, Joy Boy reborn, could make real. He knew once that person came, the Red Line would fall, the world would unite, and the age of seas would end, the world would be One Piece.

[minor galleon]

isnt cobra a direct descendant of the nefertari bloodline (lili's younger brother)?
but titi looks exactly like lili so does that mean titi is from lili's bloodline?
does vivi have the blood of the 2 separated nefertari bloodlines?
🤔

[solemn sable]

More than a theory, I think it's an open question...
As seen in the new chapter, Gill Bastar is apparently the previous user of the Horo Horo no Mi, and as we know, Gill died and Moria used his body to turn him into a zombie. And of all the people who could have obtained that Devil Fruit... it was Perona.
Perhaps it's just a mere coincidence within the canon that Perona has the Horo Horo no Mi, which belonged to Gill, but seeing that small connection with Moria, I wondered... Is it possible that Moria had something to do with Perona obtaining her Devil Fruit powers? Could Moria have knowledge about stealing someone else's Devil Fruit abilities, just like Teach and Burgess know how to do it?

[lone yacht]

Kid is john's son

[lone yacht]

he didnt take ganzui's bomb fruit and john's magnet fruit though

[solemn sable]

Hmm... good point

[small estuary]

The going merry promise is a good take. But I don't think that Luffy is here to fulfill someone's promise. He is the main character. I think there's more to this.

[cosmic fern]

he's not fulfilling a promise as he's not the one who put the treasure, it's just maybe foreshadowing by oda

[wild vector]

We still don't know enough but I don't think that's a likely conclusion.

The same way the smile reincarnated near by, the hollow fruit may have done the same.
It's also possibly they were apart of morias crew.

[fringe hemlock]

Gunko v Robin feels likely, their parallels are so direct

its not lost on me that Scopper has the same kinda shades as Brook and Kuzan, Oda’s clearly building an archetype

their powers let them make multiple giant extending limbs like Luffy

Robin’s whole arc was getting over her belief in the inevitability of defeat and preserving the history Gunko is there to destroy, we know Robin takes shit like that personally. Robin started off fighting Sommers but he’s clearly a bigger enemy for Scopper, its like Robin and Scopper picked the wrong enemies to start with

[subtle basalt]

maybe the reason Emeth attacked marie jois is to get the giant straw hat?

[lean shadow]

Could it be that Zoro's sword teacher is son of the bald swordsman elder and kuina wasn't killed by a fall and was instead taken by imu.
Would be quite a drive for zoro to go after imu and his goons if she is a slave or a puppet.
Who knows maybe imu is not really giving immortality but rather switching the damage to other people similar to hawking's df.
Didn't Hawkins have some markings on his body,is it similar to what they used to travel?

[steady prism]

I don’t think it’s that deep, it’s possible just like how the D clan has many “branches” (Trafalgar, Monkey, Davy, etc), the same could be said for Nefertari family, but they all use the same surname. We don’t have any evidence of Cobra or Titi when they were children, so it’s hard to say which one was considered royalty.

[steady prism]

Since this channel is for theories, could you please elaborate? Why do you think Emet eould be drawn to that straw hat?

[steady prism]

Zoro’s teacher is a Shimotsuki and the son of the old man at Zoro’s village. It was confirmed in vol98’s SBS (ch968). He is not related to the Gorosei. So I don’t think this Kuina subplot is likely.

Regarding the transfer of damage, yeah I think that would make sense. Hawkins could have basically been like a prototype of the Holy Knights’ “indestructibility”

[neon hazel]

Lowkey think the “man marked by flames” could be Dragon 👀
The dude’s literally the most wanted man alive, knows the world’s secrets, and “marked by flames” could symbolize his past or powers, not just scars.
Would be a wild twist if he’s the one guarding the final Road Poneglyph 🔥

[slender fulcrum]

And he wouldnt tell robin ? How would he be able to read it ?

[neon hazel]

True, he probs can’t read it himself — but maybe he doesn’t need to.
Dragon could just be protecting it instead of trying to decode it.
Like, keeping the last Road Poneglyph out of the World Gov’s hands until someone like Robin or Luffy’s crew can actually read it.
Would fit his whole “waiting for the right era” vibe 🔥

[obsidian glacier]

I'm just gonna make my first theory here and hope no one else has made the same theory be4

Since it's now been proven that Imu can possess other characters in order to make them do what would be against their character or what could be considered as actions that would be in Imu's favor
I theorize that King Harald himself isn't killed by Loki BUT the Demon version of Loki, which is why Loki told Haijrudin that he isn't the one who killed their father that time

Now even tho there are visible differences when a person turns into a Demon after getting possessed by Imu, it could very well be likely that the Giants who have horns don't look any different if they're possessed by Imu, hence it would've looked that way to any unsuspecting person
That Loki did indeed kill King Harald

Ok bye

[solid terrace]

Uh what about the panel where king harald is stabbed tf up by his guards

[obsidian glacier]

Can you plz show em
I'm making this theory based on what I remember from the Manga

[solid terrace]

Icl I can’t be fkd purely because the panel is so distinct and visible but it’s the same chapter that shanks and Gyaban are taking a bath

[obsidian glacier]

Ohh I remember I'll go check

[solid terrace]

I’m rlly lazy sorry if I’m wrong on the chapter I’ll find the panel for you

[solid terrace]

Nah I was right it’s chapter 1152

[obsidian glacier]

Ohh dw I found the chapter, I just don't have image perms
Well Harald is still standing and he doesn't look like he died from all those blades going through him

And this made me realize that instead of it actually being Loki who got possessed by Imu, maybe it was Harald and just like Rocks, Harald asked Loki to kill him and he agreed to do it

But I could be wrong in both cases

[solid terrace]

I mean what about all the guards being domi reversed, like no guard no matter the situation is attacking their king

[obsidian glacier]

Ok then that could also be the case, but if the guards are the ones who were Demons and Harald was Ok, it brings the question of why would Loki just straight up murk his own father?

[slender fulcrum]

But he had Robin, the " Light of the Revolution " , sole survivor of O'hara, under his protection for two years, and never tell her anything about it, or she said nothing to Luffy ?
That's why I think it's not Dragon. It does not make any sense, for now.

My theory is that this was an hoax story to cover it up made by the Roger's pirate and the last road Poneglyph is in Elbaph. And Gyaban knows where it is. Maybe it's true but its on the Heaven realm of Elbaph where there is a lake and a guy guarding it, who knows...

if you noticed, every single poneglyph are in important place.

• Zou
• Fishman Island
• Wano

Last one being Elpabh.
So high chances that there is one in elbaph

( The poneglyph of FMI was taken by big mum since it was her turf at one point )

[craggy apex]

FMI's poneglyph was taken way before the place became Big Mom's territory (she took over once WB died)

[solid terrace]

yh it was taken by burn scar man allegedly but definitely not by big mom she had hers even in rogers time

[swift cosmos]

For me, a theory I have is that Imu is an amalgamation of the other 19 kings of the void century.

[neon hazel]

That actually makes a lot of sense 👀
If Roger’s crew did make up the “man marked by flames” story to hide the last Road Poneglyph, Elbaf fits perfectly — all the other poneglyphs are in major historical places.
And if Gaban really knows about it, that means the Roger Pirates might’ve planned a whole second “race” for Laugh Tale from the start 🔥

[slender fulcrum]

FMI's poneglyph was taken way before the place became Big Mom's territory (she took over once WB died)

big mom she had hers even in rogers time

it does not contradict anything tbh

But I'd like to have source to make sure that it's indeed not the poneglyph of FMI she got

[craggy apex]

If it was taken so recently, people would have known exactly were it was. There would be no mystery.

But if she had snatched before, there'd be more talk of her clashing with Whitebeard, since it was his territory.

[slender fulcrum]

The plot thickens
From reddit :

[thick wren]

Guys does anyone have a theory on the haki rocks used ?
Garp and Roger fight Rocks with aCoc but we clearly se them touching. Garp said it’s because their conquerors nullifies against Rock’s. Why doesn’t it nullify when Luffy fights Kaido, or when Roger fights WB later with Oden ?

[iron current]

but the thing is he pulled out Poneglyph rubbings which Oden translated, those were the first ones he had since they went to Zou, FMI and Wano later on on their travels, so BM 100% had a Road Poneglyph even during Rogers times
obviously that doesnt mean the last Poneglyph cant be on Elbaph, its possible its their with the man makred by flames

[lean shadow]

I just feel like that elder has a weird name.
It doesnt sound samurai/wano at all.
That said the way koshiro looks sometimes reminds me of nusjuro idk why.
Maybe ethan is his father who dishonored the family and thus is bald.
It is kinda similar when you say koshiro,denjiro,nusjuro.
Idk if there is some sort of ranking betwen iro and uro.

Hawkings tattoo like similar to the god knights tattoo.
They just got a circle as well.
Maybe the lines on his forehead are direction meanwhile for imu the circle is the direction and its where the circle is drawn.
Still,hawkings power is definitely df related,but I could see them having an artificial version of his df that works similarly.

[lone yacht]

Theory : Nami is Imu's daughter (saw it on insta)

Nami was found on Boycott island during a war and Nojiko was carrying her then Bellemere found them and 2yo Nami was laughing.
When Nami gets mad her eyes turn into Imu's eyes like Gunko.
She loves making people into her slaves just like Imu.
Her bounty is 366Million 66 is also in 666 the devil number and Imu is linked with Devil too

My theory : Nami is Imu 's daughter but you might be wondering Imu is 800 years old atleast so how? Toki is also from void century and she has the Toki Toki no Mi (Time Fruit) which made her travel from void century to Oden's era then she uses it to send the Kozuki clan to 20 years from future. I believe Toki was Joyboy's ally and she probably came across Imu at some point but because Nami was only like 1 at the time she probably thought when she becomes older she will be like her mother Imu so Toki sent Nami to future and later on Toki went to Oden's time.....

[solid terrace]

fixed

[lone yacht]

*Nami is imu's daughter my badd

[remote silo]

So far every red-headed baby we've seen is smiling and happy in the middle of warzones, so I think there are other far more reasonable things going on than leaping to her being Imu's daughter. But that's just me

I do think Oda has been hiding something important about Nami ever since we got that flashback tho, so this is going down the right path regardless. The answer is probably different is all

[lone yacht]

okay but did u read the entire thing though

theres this youtuber called Dawn Dusk she reallly makes the best theories out there most of them come true she even predicted Xebec and Blackbeard are part of Davy Clan

[remote silo]

If you want to get further into the weeds, Biblically 6 is the number of man. 7 is the divine number, so 6 means being just beneath perfection: aka, being a human.

I do think Toki has sent at least one other person from the void century into the future (My pet theory is that it's Lily, sent to the One Piece at the appointed time).

Nami imo has always been coded as an abandoned CD kid, thinking wealth would solve all problems. There's something about red heads in this series that makes them stand out because they're so rare. Since we've now seen Shanks and Shamrock's origin, the idea I had long ago seems more and more likely: This island was in the middle of a GV-like incident, which is why it was full of marines and surrounded by death

So if you want to loop back around to numerology with her bounty totals, Oda could be hinting that she was knocked down one peg from divine to the world of man below

[lone yacht]

Red Head people
Nami
Shanks
Shamrock
Shamrock's mother
Kidd
Rockstar
Pearl

[remote silo]

The only hair color that's rarer I think is blue, right?

[lone yacht]

Blue haired people
Vivi
Lily
Buggy
Denjiro
Franky
Ulti

[remote silo]

Nearly the same amount. with all that said, are there any other tangible clues to back up that theory? I am struggling to think of any in-story connections that would indicate this twist. Oda foreshadows everything so this would have its fingerprints all over the place.

The eyes example is a no go because you also have to apply that to Robin, who we know is unrelated to Imu. Same with Hawkeye, or Zunesha.

CD's love having slaves, so that may originate from Imu creating this culture, but it's not unique to them.

Brook landed in a pentagram where they were summoning Satan, so linking her to the devil is far from unique amongst the Straw Hats. The first thing Zoro asks Luffy is if he's the "Devil's son"

[lone yacht]

also theres Toki and Blue Gilly with blue hair too.
And iceberg

[remote silo]

Oh yeah! So red hair is the rarest (assuming we're not forgetting people)

[lone yacht]

Purple is the rarest.
Only one i could think of is Gotti and Wapol

[remote silo]

Well purple comes from combining red and blue... We should probably continue this conversation in #manga-serious tho since we're kinda brainstorming

[lone yacht]

Most commons are I believe, black, blonde, brunette, pink are the most common

[hollow cloak]

nami's hair is clearly a different color than the actual red haired characters have yall ever heard of orange

[remote silo]

yeah they have different shades but you have to ignore other connections to say there's not strong links between them

[fringe hemlock]

i think being able to connect them on the basis of being redheads is the gateway to understanding the series

it justifies paying attention to their parallels

[fringe hemlock]

and Tama

[scenic ingot]

Shamrock def swapped out the Nika fruit on Elbaf for some other fruit, which is why Loki thinks he has the sun god fruit. Then Shanks heard the WG had it, got info on where it was, stole it from Whoswho n em, and then took it to the East Blue to give to Ace, who he thought would be the next Roger. Then, of course, Luffy ended up eating it instead bc he was actually the one to inherit Roger / Joyboy's will

[rich quarry]

Why is Shamrock swapping the fruit but then they have whos who transport it?

[scenic ingot]

Laziness. Whoever we saw in the Elbaf castle stealing the fruit is either Shamrock or Figarland. Makes sense as to how Shanks would know the whereabouts of the fruit. Also, it's not really stated that whoswho was the most powerful on that convoy, just that he was there

[swift cosmos]

My issue is if that is the case, why couldn't he take it to Marie Geoise via the abyss?

[scenic ingot]

Nika fruit has a will of its own and wouldn't allow that

[torn plover]

That makes absolutely no sense timeline wise

[scenic ingot]

how exactly?

[torn plover]

Everything, if you thinks it's true tell us how old people have been when this stuff hapened

[scenic ingot]

It fits perfectly with the current timeline. I'm wondering where it doesn't.

[torn plover]

Then tell us

[scenic ingot]

Shamrock swaps out the df on Elbaf, as shown when someone was stealing the legendary fruit in Elbaf, from the throneroom. This was during Loki's flashback when Shanks was visting Gaban on Elbaf. Shanks leaves Elbaf to claim the fruit, stealing it from whoswho. Then, Shanks goes to Goa village, as seen in chapter 1.

[alpine sphinx]

why would he swap the fruit, leaving one behind for loki, instead of just taking it

doesnt seem like he is trying to be sneaky or hide anything, idk what the point of bringing another fruit is

[swift cosmos]

Cyper pol had to transport it

[swift cosmos]

Also I have another theory. I think the Reason why the World government paint their ships green is to mark which ones have a sea prism bottom.

[scarlet spade]

bro,your theory is so funny even absurd.

[shadow blade]

guys whats luffy next power up

[granite surge]

Motherflame

[undone holly]

last chapter gave us a hint on how to use supreme king's haki in a way we never saw... thats his next power up i think

[hardy trench]

Whatever advanced advanced advanced conq bs u need to kill immortals, or at least deal lasting damage

Assuming that their immortality is different from domi reversi actually

[last kelp]

Do u remember the chapter where shamrock or garland stole the fruit? For some reason I don’t remember that, maybe bc I skim some chapters

[atomic grove]

@undone holly it has been seen before, just not to the level we just saw it. They coated themselves in Conquerors Haki, just like Kaido did, but in a manner that put much more energy into their attack

[fringe hemlock]

didn’t happen but the fruit was shown in 1152

[trail urchin]

In episode 144, beginning of the jaya arc, a wrecked ship falls from the sky, which leads the Straw Hats to discover a map of Skypiea and realize their Log Pose is pointing upward. While looking around underwater between the shipwreck, sanji finds a picture of a woman who seems to just be unknown for us, but couldn't have that been Queen Nefeltari D lily? And that ship is the one that never arrived back to alabasta? Now hear me out, I assume lily knew that Imu had the power or a way of sinking the world, and to escape that, she went to the safest place possible, which is the sky islands, thats why we see the ship fall from above there (now I'm not sure why it fell then and there but if I remember correctly they said that it had been drifting in the clouds for a long time)

I just thought of this just now lol so its not well thought and may easily be very wrong

[broken seal]

That ship was only a couple of hundred years old, so probably completely unrelated

[trail urchin]

ohh is that so

[mighty falcon]

Want to hear something even crazier? Lily could have been brought forward in time with Toki and others.

Which would explain imu’s unease. Because imu can’t be sure Lily is even dead. Toki’s existence opens up alot of weird things to happen due to time travel.

[trail urchin]

I haven't thought about that at all, insane

True though we don't know almost anything about toki yet her existence could affect so many things in the story 😭

[mighty falcon]

We know a few key details about Toki. In order of importance they are

#1. oden confirmed that toki knew what was on laugh tale somehow but not really how he knew she already knew.

#2. existed during the void century and knew of Ryuma. Which would imply Ryuma is actually from around the same time as toki.

3. She had a “mission” she was on before meeting oden. When she met oden her “mission” was already fulfilled so she was free to do as she pleased.

Also we know her devil fruit has the same name as her which would imply it was somehow made for her.

[mighty falcon]

I personally think the reason lunarians still exist now is because of Toki, I think she brought some forward with her in time and other “tribes” too.

Imagine in the middle of the huge war arc nefetari D Lily and a squad just pops up out of thin air to throw down on Luffy’s side lmfao. Because Toki sent them forward in time to help. But idk why she wouldn’t have gone too

[trail urchin]

Hmm interesting

The laughtale point is really questionable, what if we assume she was there when joyboy left the treasure? Then went to the future

Or maybe even the one who left it there for him because he couldn't do it himself? Maybe that's a big stretch though

[mighty falcon]

I’m pretty sure she must have been at least part of the plan itself, a crucial part on multiple levels.

Also take into account that imu has no weakness to conquerors haki

Which really only leaves one technique. The breathe of all things. That must be imu’s weakness.

The breathe of all things isn’t something that many people know of, it seemed like a secret passed down from master to pupil only by Kuina’s father. But Ryuma also possessed it.

So it’s fair to say that the breathe of all things is something above haki itself.

[haughty furnace]

Did u write this with Chatgpt

[remote silo]

I think the key to defeating Domi Reversi was hinted at in Thriller Bark.

If we look at how Moira’s powers work, there’s a lot of parallels to how Domi works, most importantly that you will eventually lose your sense of self no matter what. Even Luffy’s shadow couldn’t overcome this. And while people could resist, no one was immune.

Well, except for one person: Lola

Lola was madly in love, and for whatever reason this made her completely immune to losing her autonomy. She doesn’t care about commands, she does what she wants at all times, and she makes decisions of her own accord.

Keep in mind, even Luffy’s shadow succumbed to this power. And yet Lola was completely fine. So what’s the deal?

I believe that love and passion is the key. Xebec was seen crying and begging to be killed as his soul cried out - he hadn’t overcome Domi Reversi, but he had managed to hold onto some of his humanity due to love. This is very important imo

Why I think this matters:

• This could explain how Lily was able to trick Imu and break free, after Imu likely Domi Reversi’d the original 20 kings
• Love may be a blind spot to Imu
• individual willpower will never be enough; this war will be won by those who have the most compassion and reliance in one another

[steady prism]

Could you show an example of Lola’s shadows ignoring a command that other shadows were forced to follow? I’m trying to look for it but I’m getting distracted by other stuff I’m TB arc lol

[remote silo]

Sure thing

[remote silo]

Also I have come to the opinion that TB is a secret, second Skypiea we should be paying more attention to

Luffy can’t become the pirate king without him after all

[steady prism]

Yeah that made me believe she’s a General-level zombie (like those Rocks Pirate-looking ones) and thus should have obeyed Absalom but didn’t. Initially I thought of her character’s antics as comedic, but there could be something deeper there especially with Imu’s abilities.

The wiki says there was a contradiction to the implied status of Lola’s zombie; in a Vivre Card where it was stated Lola’s zombie was a wild zombie, which would make her a Perona subordinate and therefore didn’t need to follow Absalom. This edit hits at the core of your theory. What do you think about that? Does this make a difference?

[remote silo]

That sounds like a big miss on my part, as I never realized she was connected to Perona. I think that makes a difference. She had her bear zombie muffled and you don’t have need of that if the zombie listens to you. Thanks for the fact checking. Back to noodling

[steady prism]

Np, I wish I didn’t because everything was lining up really well. Still, it doesn’t negate your larger point: thriller bark was Oda’s chance to experiment with certain ideas that are coming to fruition today. Looking forward to your next one!

[remote silo]

I appreciate fact checks! This story is so big and sprawling that it’s easy for me to forget or miss a crucial detail and run wild lol. But it was a fun one while it lasted!

[last halo]

Akainu’s fruit will be used to make new land masses after the world drowns post final war

[steady prism]

Since this channel’s for longer theories, can you please elaborate? Why do you think the world will drown EOS? What makes you think Akainu will be capable of creating landmass at that scale? Does this make sense for his character?

[steady prism]

!theories @normal palm this channel is for long form theories, please ask questions like that in #manga

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[mighty falcon]

What’s interesting is my theory about devil fruits coming from luffys fruit but also from Imu.

I think Imu made the logia’s specifically. But idk.

[fringe hemlock]

maybe the Domi Reversi home rule would explain Nika/Luffy’s crew diversity, like a crew made up of ppl from the same place will be the most susceptible to Domi Reversi cuz if the crew is together and one goes home, they’re all home. also, would that mean a ship’s klabauterman could be DR’d while in the island of its creation?

[bleak drift]

Ryuma was buried in new wano, after the walls were raised and wano was moved to the top. Toki was not born in the same time as ryuma if she was from old wano

[swift cosmos]

Right now, peoplemarr wondering how long about Ruyma's story is

[mighty falcon]

Wano of Ryuma’s time was known as the land of gold. That’s Wano of 800 years ago.

[fast wing]

There never was a one piece in terms of actual treasure. One Piece is a super clever name Roger came up with to symbolise the "One Piece" on the board required to defeat Imu since the game board seems to either literally or metaphorically represent Imu's power.

[alpine sphinx]

the fact that domi reversi worked like the actual game of reversi on elbaf (pieces get flipped if they are flanked on either side by an opposing piece) makes me think you could un-domi reversi people using the same method (but opposite colour tiles)

a strategically placed “one piece” with one on the opposite side of the world (that is very conveniently shaped with lines) could definitely be a cool key to defeating imu or undoing some of the magic

[languid moth]

I have a joyboy theory...
Roger is the descendent of joyboy and joyboy probably was the spitting image of Ace (maybe he was called ace too).

Also i think every current d member will have a contrast in the void century. Probably the D. Is like the x from alabasta a mark of joyboy crew and friends. And i think current character inherited the will of some void century D. Member. Prob the monkey D. From the void century was a prominent member of joyboy's crew maybe his second in commant

[steady prism]

Since this place is for theories, you’re better off asking in #manga-serious

[keen trellis]

20 year later response, but yeah i could definitely see this especially since Shanks and Buggy’s relationship can also be be seen as Joyboy and Davy’s, Shanks wanted Buggy on his crew after all. At best Usopp might’ve just been a parallel to Davy than the actual true will of Davy 🤷🏻‍♂️

[pure raven]

Um I am not sure if someone have mentioned it, So its regarding Domi reversi. Its so far Xebec, Elbaf giants and I do not know if Harald too have been affected by it also its like making them demons under commands by Imu. Also it was like if they have great control over their emotions their domi reversi is less effective like Xebec and Imu has to like ragebait him more with Harald. Where Broggy was done in a different method like a seal or contract using Grimory?

[alpine sphinx]

i think broggy could have been done in the same way, imu did ragebait him a little (and then stabbed him and shot his arm off)

it makes sense that physical damage is usually the easiest way to "weaken" someone for domi reversi, but for people like harald or rocks you cant really do this, so ragebait is the only way

[pure raven]

Xebec did said he felt nothing when Imu pierced him, so it like either when solo domi reversi its painless or so and in elbaph it was a mass number of domi reversi on the giants, Just other giants were flipped instantly. More like the gun and grimory were some tools for another way of Domi reversi

[lone hedge]

Next episode comes out on <t:1763308800:F> <t:1763308800:R>. CR has been late recently so give it around 10-20 minutes (time zone adjusted)

[zinc meteor]

weird theory. Imu and friends are actually the good guys. They prevented the advanced tech from destroying the world further so they erased their existence. People like luffy/roger are those stupid ones to resurrect this flaw coz they know nothing.

[weak pewter]

Pretty sure imu is the one working toward flooding the world tho

[alpine sphinx]

at a minimum, imu ordered the recreation, stealing and use of the mother flame, which is the bad world destroying thing (destroying lulusia and raising water levels)

isnt this just the canon justification for outlawing the reading of poneglyphs?

and imu wants to use the ancient weapons, so imu isnt really hiding the weapons for the good of the people, just so it isnt used againt him

[fierce thorn]

You delete my mini theory but leave other non theories up? Glad to know there's selective moderation on who's thoughts are allowed to be put out

[steady prism]

Not really, you seemed to have been fielding a question to brainstorm and I waited 8hrs+ before deleting it.

My DMs are open if you have any qualms, you can restate your theory again if you think you have enough evidence/reasoning.

@zinc meteor the manga channels are intended to be OP-only, pointing to other animes’ plot twists as evidence is considered spoilers here. Only place you could do that is in #other-series (with spoiler tags). For that reason, I had to delete those messages. Your claims can stand on their own without needing other animes to prove it.

You can restate them in your first post, the points you were making was:

• Imu deleted history and the ability of people to use the ancient weapons whenever they wanted so they have sole control over it, like nukes
• Imu’s not the boss, they are controlling the world because of fear of outside/alien invasion or inter-planetary war

[fierce thorn]

cba to share my thoughts on this server anymore

[scenic ingot]

seems like Loki is convinced whatever he ate was the Nika fruit

[mighty falcon]

It’s obvious what’s going to happen.

Imu has known the war is coming longer than people like Luffy or Zoro or even Roger could.

Which means Imu has been prepping for it longer. This would explain the summoning circle in elbaph AND why those random villagers had the summoning circle when brook got paw paw fruited. Imu has been planting the ability to “make an army” on very short notice.

I believe it was shanks that planted the summoning circle on elbaph.

I believe shanks territory is all actually imu’s.

If you break up territory of all the emperors it is likely that shanks territory belongs to Imu.

Buggy and luffy will join forces.

Blackbeards territory actually belongs to Lafitte.

Then you have smaller territories like the remnants of big mom territories and vinsmoke judge which will probably go to luffy as for the former big mom territories.

Vinsmoke judge and germa 66 will end up on imu’s side unfortunately

The three main players of the Great War are Gunko aka Imu, Lafitte, and Zoro

It is also likely that Lafitte has a power similar to domi reversi but more hypnotism based. Like jango did but way more powerful

It’s likely there is a summoning circle on fishman island btw. So we could see a domi reversi’ed shirahoshi.

And the presence of cp0 on Wano leads me to believe Wano has one as well.

Also that cp0 agent Kaido “killed” didn’t die. It was shanks.

I’d imagine some god knights pose as cp0 agents. Having fully covered faces allows for them to have a lot of identity’s.

The one that Kaido hit with thunder bakuga has the same build as shanks

The only reason people didn’t consider it was shanks in a mask is the fact he had two arms

But in reality shanks does still have two arms.

He keeps one cloaked at all times to give the illusion that it is gone.

If you actually look at the entire manga and anime you never see the stump.

The only time you see him with one arm is when it’s bitten off by the sea beast.

After that he keeps it fully covered.

In the live action shanks joked to Mihawk that he could beat him with one hand tied behind his back. Because he literally has the other arm and keeps it in his back pocket for a rainy day.

The ultimate combat trick.

If your opponent thinks you only have one arm, they’ll never see the arm they think you don’t have till it’s too late.

It was a long game plan to defeat Blackbeard To get payback for the eye scar.

[fringe plover]

THEORY: LOKI WILL WIELD THE SWORD IN ELBAPH

• In Norse mythology, Loki's blood brother, Odin, originally made the sword "Gram" and stuck it into a tree called Barnstokkr, and said whoever pulls it out keeps it, basically the same as the sword in the stone. And after many failed, Sigmund, father of Sigurd, was the one to pull it out, and after HE died, his son Sigurd inherited it after it was reforged by a dwarven smith from it's fragments.

Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye and Sigurd, Son of Sigmund share the same name.

• Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye (A.K.A Sigurd Ragnar🔨sson) was born with a defect that causes his eye to display a mark that looks similar to the ouroboros. Loki was born with snake eyes and shares the same mark on the mural as the Hellfire Serpent (an ouroboros).

This parallel alone insinuates Loki's eyes and mural mark come from the story of Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye.

• Sigurd, Son of Sigmund, is a different person from Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye BUT they share the same name. Yet this Sigurd is a lot more well known and infamous throughout Nordic culture. This Sigurd is a legendary hero who killed a dragon (Fafnir) with the sword Gram, THE SAME GRAM THAT WAS STUCK INTO THE BARNSTOKKR.

Fafnir is a being that can shapeshift from a humanoid into a dragon and vice-versa. (Imu)

• "The tree on Elbaph parallels Yggdrasil though, not Barnstokkr" you might say. But many professors point out parallels and acknowledge the similarities between Barnstokkr and Yggdrasil, connotating each of the trees as the same. For example:

Andy Orchard (Rawlinson and Bosworth Professor of Anglo-Saxon at the University of Oxford) states that the role and placement of Barnstokkr as a "mighty tree, supporting and sprouting through the roof of Völsung's hall" has clear parallels in Norse mythology with the world tree Yggdrasil

Jesse Byock (Professor of Old Norse and Medieval Scandinavian Studies at UCLA) theorizes that the latter reference to an apple tree may imply a further symbolic meaning pointing to the apple tree of the goddess Iðunn, and that the Barnstokkr may be further identified with the world tree Yggdrasil.

IF LOKI EVER LOSES RAGNIR HE WILL WIELD THE SWORD IN ELBAPH AND STAB IMU WITH IT, JUST AS THE MURAL DEPICTS.

[slender fulcrum]

stop saying it's IMU on the mural, we don't know yet. (at least for the far left figure )

1- BB is fated to fight Imu because of some deal he made with Davy D. Jones back then . Davy D. Jones was " the king of the world "
2- BB is nowhere on this mural with Luffy against the supposed IMU figure on the far left.
3- The "figure" on the far left is not the same as the one in the center. There are differences
4- The 'figure' got three orbs around its left hand ( three devils fruits? ) we see those orbs pictured in several places of the mural.
5- The 'figure' got a crew and a ship next to it.

Du to the absence of BB or Davy's heir alongside Luffy, it's the possibility that the giant shadow on the left is Blackbeard. We know he has a plan to take down Imu that was transmitted through generation in the Davy Clan. This plan is something regarding Imu's. BB is already laying down his plan in motion and wants to infiltrate marijoie somehow.

It's fairly possible that BB will destroy Imu through some secret plan laid aeons ago by Davy and will take Imu's place as ruler of the world.

Luffy already fought against the Gorosei, and he's now fighting against Imu and God's knight in elbaph. It's maybe a way for Oda to pit Imu VS Luffy before BB take him for good and not giving reader a chance to see a full IMU vs Luffy showdown

[mighty falcon]

It is Imu and Lafitte on the mural

[pure raven]

Vegapunk and Imu

When you look at One Piece, Vegapunk and Imu almost feel like reflections in a mirror—two beings who embody opposite sides of the same coin.

• Vegapunk split his mind into six bodies (himself + five satellites)

• Shaka ("Logic") – embodies rationality and reason.

• Lilith ("Evil") – represents selfishness and greed.

• Edison ("Flare") – focused on creativity and invention.

• Pythagoras ("Wisdom") – analytical and knowledge-driven.

• Atlas ("Violence") – raw power and aggression.

[mighty falcon]

Correct.

The difference is that Imu is putting its will in other things.

[pure raven]

created a network of personalities all tied back to his central brain in Punk Records, a cloud that holds the sum of his genius.He himself is the centralized core, while the satellites act as distributed nodes.

It’s a human attempt to transcend limits, to spread intellect across multiple vessels. On the other side, Imu sits hidden on the Empty Throne, with the Five Elders acting as extensions of divine will.

that Imu mirrors Vegapunk, - Imu is the central authority, hidden yet omnipresent.

• The Five Elders (Gorosei) act as satellites, extensions of Imu’s will.

• Unlike Vegapunk’s satellites (who embody aspects of intellect), the Gorosei embody aspect of power, ideology, and divine authority.

In short: Vegapunk and Imu are narrative foils. One represents the pinnacle of human intellect, the other the pinnacle of divine authority. Both extend themselves into five satellites, but their networks differ — one is technological, the other metaphysical.

[mighty falcon]

Vegapunk probably had more than five satellites btw. There were 5 satellites that functioned well together. The others sent off as global spies.

Eustass and even killer might be vegapunk satellites

[pure raven]

Its I am thinking that Vegapunk's satelites thing was like some thing related to the seven sins matter so we can expect that there are more than 5 as you mentioned also, this makes if Imu is similar to as Vegapunk in this context that makes Imu also has two more characters than Gorosei. Its not correct to say that Imu may not possess anyone than Gorosei and God Knight who Imu has direct control of, as Saturn got immediately eliminated by Imu after the mihandling of Emeth's issue for 200 years. So its also that Garling was initiated to that position right after. Which also confirms that Imu still have control over God knights for years to make Graling the new gorosei. So back to my saying so who might be the two or more satelites of Imu I mean Gorosei don't age as per say which is example being saturn unlike garling who is a God knight still aged, that makes Gunko is the hidden satelite at next. Also this may be silly but Mihawk also has the same eyes and lives in solitude so he may be hidden satelite too

[mighty falcon]

I think imu’s real satellites are the god knights btw. The elder stars are just a front. Thats why we see so little of the god knights imo.

I am also 100% certain gunko is Imu and Brook was gunko’s most trusted ally. Gunko domi reversi Brook to use him as a spy against Luffy

[heavy dust]

Forgetting York already?

IMU has characteristics similar to a hive queen, and like electricity transferred to a machine to power up, and all machines are connected to IMU, they can possess anyone they share their powers with. Also it is mostly like a soul split by Big Mom, where she can enhance her soul powers using other people's souls and then grant them to whatever/whoever desires.

Vegapunk didn't split himself in 7 people, he just created seven sub processes if you can imagine to handle different emotions/feeling categories of the human mind. Because of his brain brain fruit, not only was he able to store vast knowledge but also multi process at the same time. A normal person can only do 1 task at a time and can multitask by juggling multiple tasks but at the core it is one task attention. His powered brain could do 7 such tasks or he found it convenient to divide into 7 categories

[mighty falcon]

Imu is actually manipulating shadows not souls though one could argue the shadow is an extension of the soul

[heavy dust]

Big mom's fruit worked on people who feared her, Melo melo fruit of Boa Hancock worked on people who were infatuated with her, similar lines Domi reversi could work on people who are against IMU, like they have animosity against them.

[mighty falcon]

I got one, what if thatch was actually a government spy and blackbeard knew it before he killed him and took the fruit?

He didn’t tell anyone because he figured no one would believe him anyway.

Murdering thatch was killing two birds with one stone. He got the fruit and took out one of the government spies within his crew.

It’s always strange when someone doesn’t just eat the fruit right away.

Wicked red flag. With buggy it made sense. With thatch not so much.

[rocky notch]

Davy D xebeck is imprisoned and luffy will liberate him! He's not dead!

[mighty falcon]

I thought that as well but then I remembered Moria has xebec corpse in the jack in the box

[mighty falcon]

What’s left of rocks is this jack in the box.

I still don’t know what 256 means. 56 is luffys number so 256 must be relevant to this dudes identity.

Instead of a jack in the box it’s an xebec in a box LOL

Would explain why the government was extra afraid of Moria. If he had Ryuma and xebec corpse alongside captain Jon and others lmfao

Also I think Moria can undo domi reversi. By taking the shadow off the person.

The 256 is even on a sunflower collar lol.

[rocky notch]

Im still not completely convinced that its xebecks corpse, I think if anything he would be held in mariejois or elbaph

[mighty falcon]

Na they already left bro. And we know that Moria was a straight grave robber

[mighty falcon]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Moria resurrect Ace and whitebeard for final war tbh. Moria was a straight grave robber of legends. Imagine the balls to steal Ryuma’s corpse and shusui

And look at what the Jack in the box character says bro. He comments about treasure room. That he isn’t in.

Bro Moria planning to kill Imu using Usopp esq strategy 😭😭😭😭😭😭 same thing Usopp did to sugar Moria planning to do to Imu 😂😂😂😂😂 but with rocks in a box

😭😭😭😭

I never thought about it like this but imagine how much info Moria actually has. He had Ryuma’s corpse bro. He had captain Jon.

[rocky notch]

I think when xebeck told imu he would be back he meant it literally, I would really be disappointed if we got xebeck who has been imo the most badass character in the show and by the end of his life is just a party trick made by moria

[deft snow]

I have a theory regarding harly

[mighty falcon]

Gecko Moria is the most informed individual on the seas prove me wrong bro. He has legends from every generation as corpses to get real intel from. Doesn’t need a book. He has the sources of legend. Can legit have chats with them anytime

Y’all sleeping on Moria’s significance

[deft snow]

The text can I give it to you guys ?

[rocky notch]

Thats not really 100% accurate, they have the same personality traits but not always memories

[mighty falcon]

Captain Jon had his memories

[rocky notch]

Yeah I think the way it works is people with strong will can hold onto there sanity a tad bit or something, but that would also kill the xebeck in a box thing cuz he doesn't remember being xebeck at all

[mighty falcon]

That’s not true The first thing he says when he comes out of the box is something about “the treasure room” as if he remembers imu’s room bro.

[deft snow]

If it's about dome riversi I think will don't even matter

[mighty falcon]

I think Moria is actually imu’s natural counter bro. Like luffy was Enel’s. Imu doesn’t manipulate souls, Gunko manipulates your shadow which occupies the abyss.

[rocky notch]

Pangea castle is never referenced as a "treasure room". That just doesn't make sense at all

[deft snow]

I don't think so cause imu don't even have a DF

[mighty falcon]

It’s not about the castle. It’s about the room with the empty throne. That is the treasure room.

[mighty falcon]

Imu is Gunko’s shadow brother. In the wizard of oz, the wizard hid behind a curtain. When rocks attacked Imu, Gunko was there.

[rocky notch]

Thats not a treasure room... 💀 if u think xebecks will is that weak then idk what to tell u 😭 I 1000% believe its not gonna be a xebeck in a box or moria in general to make an important move in the final saga

[deft snow]

Ohk understiod

[mighty falcon]

Gunko’s fruit allows her to lock a window of time into existence regardless of her opponents defenses

Think of it like forcing a set of pictures from a camera to appear exactly how you wish them to be in every aspect, a snapshot in sequence. It has some limit but unless you are aware of it you are helpless because it will seem like a gap you can’t break.

[deft snow]

Ok but cant there be any counter

[mighty falcon]

Gunko hides behind imu’s shadow because Imu is the “fall guy” basically for imu to even exist it would need a day job and regular identity in marijois. Something that keeps its high status but not flagrantly

[rocky notch]

Gunko has the aro aro no mi which gives her the power to create and control arrows, thats not true at all

[mighty falcon]

The arrows of time. Her true fruit power edits time itself. The only method of defeating her is the breathe of all things. Because using that you can at least match and see the events equally.

Basically Gunko has the fruit version of the breathe of all things. And the ability to manipulate people via the abyss and shadow.

[rocky notch]

I mean a theory is a theory ig

[mighty falcon]

Cobra wasn’t in a wheel chair because he couldn’t move. He was in a wheel chair prepping for his last strike.

Even in his condition he should have been able to dodge. But he couldn’t because time itself was being manipulated.

[iron current]

is there anything supporting your ideas

[rocky notch]

How do you explain how sabo was able to get away?

[mighty falcon]

Yes. Cobra went in there knowing he could killed that’s why he went alone.

[deft snow]

Oda is not some one to think this much about a devil fruit

[rocky notch]

You might wanna go to hxh for a power like that xD

[mighty falcon]

Yes he is, the real name of some fruits is hidden bro.

Luffys fruit is mythical Zoan human model sun god nika.

Laws fruit is mythical Zoan human model sword god Ryuma.

[rocky notch]

Gunko and buggy are from alabasta

[mighty falcon]

I think they have a relation yeah. But it could be worse than we expect. See shanks poisoned Roger. Rayleigh was originally sent to kill Roger but switched sides. Shanks basically killed Roger but buggy was probably a government plant that also switched sides.

[deft snow]

That's an other thing but thing that a fruit will effect time and frames is just not oda's style

[mighty falcon]

Yes it is, TOKI TOKI no mi exists bro. What are you talking about? We already saw gunko’s power and how it really works she legit explains it.

She just lies about the name

[rocky notch]

Oda usually only does those things when someone we know alr had a power and it gets buffed by being awakened into its true form. I dont think he would purposely lie and tell us its just an aro aro no mi and then blatantly show a different power being used, it doesnt make sense

Or if he did he would state the real name of the fruit when he showed it being used in its true form which he hasn't done with gunko

[mighty falcon]

You mean like with Gomu Gomu fruit

Gunko never left base form bro.

[rocky notch]

Its not about a form but about the power itself you say shes using, if she was using that oda would say it. Narratively it would make 0 sense to make it a secret for her and nobody else in the show

[mighty falcon]

Gunko legit walks around with the same eyes as Imu

[rocky notch]

Only when shes being controlled by imu, when she's not she has 2 different eyes

[mighty falcon]

Bro how does Imu exist in marijois if it doesn’t have a normal identity too. That’s like Superman with no Clark Kent expecting to remain secret identity in public are you legit serious rn bro are you cooked? What’s up?

It’s not questionable that Imu needs a regular identity. You are cooked

[rocky notch]

Imu is there identity? They the ruler of the world? Its not like imu is a manifestation or something lmao

[mighty falcon]

You never heard the power is a shadow on the wall speech and it shows.

[rocky notch]

No your just wrong sorry gunko is just one of imu fav puppets and thats about it

[mighty falcon]

Gunko doesn’t have the same title as other god knights.

Explain that

[iron current]

we even saw someone looking like her in the vacinity of Imu

[rocky notch]

It was her fs but shes a servant not the same person lmao. Thats such a crazy take

[mighty falcon]

Correct because that was gunko. Gunko manipulates her own shadow into the form of Imu. People attack Imu instead of Gunko. Gunko’s power prevents her and Imu from being meaningfully harmed. Perfect power loop

Because no one targets Gunko. They target Imu.

[rocky notch]

Thats only ever happened once bro and we've seen imu get active multiple times now, maybe if that happened everytime u would have something there

[mighty falcon]

Gunko gave shamrock orders not the other way around as well btw. Remember that. Gunko was the one in charge until “captains privileges ran out due to unforeseen forces”.

Gunko’s panel introduction didn’t have the same title as other god knights either.

But she’s ordering the top dog around?

Are
You
Daft?

[rocky notch]

Just the act of imu having to "possess" gunko proves there not connected definitively

[mighty falcon]

Have you heard of acting? Putting on a show? If the person at the top is known to be Gunko the conditions would probs be different bud.

People don’t know Gunko is Imu.

Not even the elder stars know.

YALL don’t get it x

[rocky notch]

Just watch when luffy liberates gunko lil bro u gonna be in for a treat

[mighty falcon]

Correct but from whom?

[rocky notch]

From imu, the person who took her freedom, same as anyone who gets domi reversi

[mighty falcon]

Wrong. who is the primary villain of one piece?

[rocky notch]

Blackbeard 💯 hes gonna beat imu and use imus powers against luffy

[mighty falcon]

Wrong try again. I’ll give you a hint white wings

[rocky notch]

Thats imu, on the very left the big demon is blackbeard

[mighty falcon]

That white wing gentleman is non other than the demon sheriff Lafitte. The true villain of one piece.

Blackbeard is fodder. Luffy is fodder. You don’t know about the real war to come yet.

[rocky notch]

🤦‍♂️

[mighty falcon]

Lafitte has been planning this war for 800+ years.

For all we know Lafitte is the reason why everything bad happened in the past. Lafitte’s true intention is the destruction of the world itself.

[iron current]

is there anything hinting at that besides a personw ith wings on the mural?

[mighty falcon]

Blackbeards multiple personalities are because of Lafitte

[mighty falcon]

Yes. The real life Lafitte lived two lives. Like two full actual lives. It’s a weird story. But essentially the world declared him dead and he wasn’t or someone posed as him and he went on to live a lot longer

[mighty falcon]

The one piece character Lafitte is based on the Greek god Hypnos. His fruit is also a mythical lunarian zoan

Which is why he can grow wings on demand

In base form no wings

In first non base form wings.

He probably has other non awakening stuff he doesn’t use

[mighty falcon]

Also if hes 800+ years old it explains how he can just sneak up on all those warlords and navy like it was no threat even walking in

Also would explain mihawks unease.

[iron current]

ok sure, not that i believe it but i can see where you are coming from

[mighty falcon]

Only him and Jango have hypnosis

And he has wings bro

And his fruit is still unnamed

[iron current]

like i said, i can see where you are coming from, im not saying there is no way you are right, doesnt mean i have to agree with you

[mighty falcon]

How did Kuina die :o?

[steady prism]

This conversation is going all over the place, please move this to #manga or #manga-serious

[ebon bone]

Since the concept of god is brought into play more with Luffy’s DF.. i think it’s more likely that there is an opposite to it and it is not Imu.

Zoro and Luffy are the two of the most important characters in SH crew and ever since Fishman island they’ve been shown and emphasised together as similar yet opposite in various parallels qualities.

Luffy awakened his DF when he was close to death and Zoro has been a character that has visited the steps death quite few times and recently adopted the name of “King of hell” and was visited by a strange grim reaper all during Wano Arc. This opposite of the sun god is a balancer who keeps evil (BB) and good(Luffy) at their boundaries and Zoro was taken in as a host for now.

[fringe hemlock]

i found what i think is the most direct inspiration behind the name of the Harley and the pairing of the mural, which depicts several black skinned figures

[pure raven]

I did not think about in this way, its I did tried to see in different way like why not Imu is actually saving and Joyboy is evil. But as it starts then I started to question everything diabolical. Like why Roger just made Rogue pregant with Ace, Then why publicly getting executed. Is he making a point and leading the pirate era to the start or does he has some other plans like teaming up with World government. Also his mysterious disease what is that? Is it like he acted or some World government propaganda. Its then made that Why Vegapunk said the war is continuing from void century. This as I mentioned before does Ancient kingdom evil and Imu is good. So many mysteries

[steady prism]

How Imu Made Friends and Influenced People The World

Imu's introduction in ch906 triggered hundreds of theories on their abilities and potential narrative/influence on the final saga of One Piece. Similarly, the short-lived introductions of Nefertari D. Lily and Davy D. Xebec has given us a stronger foundation to steer the conversation surrounding Imu's future role in this story. For me however, the farther you look back, the farther forward you can see. Instead of looking at what could be Imu's role, I'd rather go back and discover what Imu's role could have been in the Void Century. In this theory, I'm going to attempt to bound Imu's powers and understand how they managed to influence 19 royal families to create the World Government (WG).

Imu's Powers (and Influence)

To start, let's go over Imu's diverse set of skills and their capacity to influence different "chess pieces" to fight their battles. For each power, I'll briefly go over how it has been presented in the story, then draw some conclusions by asserting/bounding/speculating the full extent of these powers:

1. Communication: Imu's able to communicate with Holy Knights (HKs) (ch1150) and Gorosei (ch1162 and ch1125).

• Interestingly, while the Holy Knights needed to vocalize their responses, the Gorosei can respond telepathically. We saw Saturn communicate telepathically to Imu before he was killed.
• Imu has not been shown to ever communicate with regular Celestial Dragons (CDs). This can mean that the relationship between Imu and the HKs and Imu and the Gorosei is very different than any regular CD.
• Assuming the first two points are true, then one could claim that:
  • Imu can only communicate with HKs and Gorosei.
  • The Gorosei have a closer relationship with Imu, which means they can reply telepathically to Imu instead of vocalizing.

2. Possession: Imu was able to fully possess Gunko such that her original personality was temporarily erased (ch1149). Imu also fully possessed Saturn in the GV flashback (ch1165).

• This possession is so unique that even in Saturn's full zoan form, you can see a figment of Imu on top of him. Connecting this to Saturn's original full zoan form (ch1094), we could speculate that Imu's vestige on Saturn's back shows that Imu's possessions lead to the presence of more than one soul and this has a physical manifestation in a devil fruit (df) user besides just the eyes.
  • If that is true, this does not really explain the devil wings and trident Gunko manifested after being possessed. Maybe__ Imu's possession leads to different mutations depending on the individual's rank__ (Holy Knight vs Gorosei) or the df itself (e.g. zoan vs paramecia).
  • On the other hand, rather than Imu's soul, it could be a manipulation in their shadow. In Thriller Bark, every shadow Luffy merged with had a visible effect on him (ch476).

3. Shadow Attacks: Imu is capable of using shadow-based attacks that are sometimes geometric (such as arrows from ch1085) or sometimes characteristics from the owner that's being possessed (such as Saturn's spider legs at a micro-scale from ch1163).

• Given that we weren't aware of Gunko's df powers in the Reverie flashback, one could speculate that the arrow that killed Cobra is the result of possession of Gunko and usage of her df powers to create a shadow-like arrow.
  • Assuming that was the case, then one could claim that at possession, Imu can reinforce/upgrade the host's df powers with shadow-equivalent abilities.
    - Assuming the former is true, then another connection that can be made is Imu's shadow-like powers are reminiscent of Gecko Moria's df power, which also dabbled in possessive abilities and transference of powers via shadows. Moria was also able to teleport with his own shadow (ch477).

4. Establishing Covenants: Imu can forcefully establish contracts with individuals by (ch1150).

• The current procedure seems to be as follows:
  1. summoning a grimoire
  2. vocalize a command to the target
  3. receive an offering from the target (e.g. a chunk of flesh) to access their lifespan as exchange for the powers received
• In a Diabolical Covenant (specifically Domi Reversi), flesh and lifespan is used in exchange for "the power of evil", which are:
  1. an undying body and
  2. uncanny strength and
  3. fealty to Imu and
  4. demonic attire (wings, horns, fangs, upgraded trident-like weapon, etc.)
• It is worth noting that the sacrificed offering does not recover even after the target's under contract. However, it is still usable, as shown by Domi Reversi'd Broggy (ch1150). Unfortunately, it is unclear what was sacrificed by Dorry to also be under contract the same way. So this point is hard to be completely certain about this point.
• The only other character in the story that has the ability to forcefully establish a contract is Sugar's df (ch717 and ch728). What makes it more compelling is that Sugar stopped aging once she ate that df (ch731). Sugar may be a valid frame of reference on both Imu's forceful contracts and Imu's immortality.
• Assuming Domi Reversi is a type/application of Diabolical Covenant, this means there can be other kinds of manifestations of Diabolical Covenants
• the domi reversi’d characters remind me how other characters have created their own armies: Big Mom’s homies, Sugar’s toys, and Moria’s zombies are a few examples of (mostly) loyal soldiers that obey every command.
  - 2 out of these 3 examples lost their army when they were knocked out.
• (Speculation) The only way the Gorosei's zoan pseudo-df transformations make sense is if it is a part of their contract with Imu. Maybe Imu has a collection of zoan monster shadows that is bestowed to a new Gorosei.

5. Immortality: Imu is suspected to be St. Imu of the Nerona Dynasty that lived in the Void Century (ch1086). Also, the Gorosei is suspected to have eternal life because Saturn (before he died) looked the exact same as he did in Egghead 200 years ago (ch1125). In contrast, the HKs like Garling and Sommers look very different from what they looked like in GV 38 years ago (ch1160) compared to present time (ch1086 and ch1140).

• Among the HKs, Gunko is the only exception that doesn't appear to have aged as much compared to how she looked 56 years ago (ch1155) vs 38 years ago (ch1160) vs present time (ch1136).
  • Given how she was wearing nun-like attire 56 years ago at the Room of Flowers, perhaps her status among the HKs is very unique. Or that was a natural progression of a CD slowly earning the right to become a HK. Still, a human in the OP world that lived 50+ years should look more elderly, and she does not have any of that.
  • The only other person that also didn't age normally was Dr Kureha. Perhaps there's some connection there
• I think it's safe to generally claim that although HKs continue to age, the Gorosei and Imu do not

6. Regeneration: The HKs (1150), the Gorosei (ch1095), and even a figment of Imu (ch1163) have all been shown to have regenerative bodies.

• Imu's regenerative body in the GV flashback may be due to their presence only being spiritual - their actual body isn't at GV. Or maybe it could be due to Imu's shadow-like powers that their body becomes unaffected by physical attacks.
• The HKs and Gorosei have similar regenerative powers. This is likely due to their relationship/contract with Imu.
• Their regenerative powers remind me of Hawkins' ability to pass damage to subordinates (ch913)
• Depending on the attack, they can feel pain (like Sommers in ch1150) or look completely unaffected
• (Speculation) I believe the summoning magic circles are the source of their regen and the only weakness (ch1122)

7. Abyss: It is unclear but assumed Imu has something to do with the magic summoning circles due to the Diabolical Covenant summoning a grimoire and weapons. It also created a magic circle under a target like Broggy at completion (ch1150). There's an association but not fully confirmed

• It is also seen that although HKs can invoke a magic circle to summon more allies, they're not in full control (ch1140). Someone else makes the decision on who gets sent
• The Gorosei have been shown to be summoned as well by a fellow Gorosei (ch1110)
• Saturn was able to summon himself from a nearby ship to Egghead (ch1194)
• I believe that only HKs and Gorosei, those with a relationship/contract with Imu, are able to use summoning circles to summon those that are at their level. Someone else makes the determination on if their summoning invocation is successful.
• Only other moment we've seen such a feat is from Kuma; his Nikyu df can "teleport" people (ch473). Given that his abilities are limited to places he's visited, it still fits with the way we've seen people use the Abyss thus far.
  • Put simply, the Abyss could be a crowdsourced equivalent of Nikyu df’s teleportation abilities. But instead of the power being central, the Abyss gives a certain subset of users the ability to "request" a summoning and it is completed fairly quickly (if not as quick as Nikyu) regardless of distance. Wherever the HKs or Gorosei go ends up being a location that Imu can “see”.

Anything underlined is my conclusions on each of these powers. And any bullet point that starts with (Speculation) is just an idea that I really liked but can't prove right now. But to sum:

➡️ HKs and Gorosei have a special contract with Imu that permits them with special abilities, including pseudo-df powers. By submitting to Imu and providing a sufficient sacrifice, they're allowed to use magic circles for summoning, have degrees of immortality/regeneration powers, and a direct line of communication with Imu. What they sacrificed is unclear, but if Broggy's an indicator, it must be lifespan or something just as precious.

➡️ Imu's possession temporarily transfers their "spirit" (either soul or shadow) into a target's body and gains complete control, which leads to mutations to the target's appearance and their (pseudo-)df powers (if applicable). Although the soul is more apt, Imu's shadow powers during possession evokes callbacks to Moria's shadow powers. Remember: the body can bear to have more than one shadow for a short period of time (ch476), it has physical manifestations and can give new powers to the target.

➡️ Imu's powers appear to be an amalgamation of various devil fruit powers we've seen, but at a much greater scale. Although we have seen paramecias have diverse set of skills (Nikyu, Wara, Kage, etc), it is more likely Imu has a mythical zoan fruit of an entity that covers all of these distinctive mythical/demonic properties. For example, the Inu Inu Model Kyubi df has the Clone Clone df’s powers. Whatever Imu's df turns out to be, it possesses great power and can raise an army.

The Subtle Art of Establishing a World Government

In Vegapunk's speech (ch1115), he claimed that there were 20 allied kingdoms that were the enemy of Joyboy's faction. After defeating Joyboy, these 20 royal families were elevated to Marijoa and were given the opportunity to become Celestial Dragons - the ultimate royalty within the dominion of the World Government (WG). Of the 20 families, only the Nefertari family rejected this offer. Nefertari Lily, the ambassador of the Nefertari family, is said to have left Marijoa but never actually returned to Alabasta alive (ch1085). Fortunately, she wrote a letter in advance that managed to find its way to Alabasta. In present time, the Celestial Dragons are considered the "gods" of this world and are given a status higher than humans and able to treat the rest of the world as their plaything with zero consequences.

When the 20 families were offered to become celestial dragons, Imu could have wrapped that offer in a contract that stipulates they remain at Marijoa. However we must bear in mind that from what we've seen thus far, Imu has the power to force a contract on anyone they want. What kind of contract could this have been?

1. To be fair, it could have been a mutually beneficial contract. The creation of "the royal family of the world" aka the CD is plenty reason for them to agree to Imu's demands. In this contract, it would be required that every royal bloodline bring their families to Marijoa and relinquish control of their kingdoms to the people. The WG will then come in with Marines and help establish order and safety. In other words, Lily's rejection/mistake was not only going against Imu's wishes, but the other 18 families' interests.

2. It is more likely a forced contract that has consequences if broken. I think Imu contracted the 19 families and gave them powers to combat Joyboy and the Ancient Kingdom's ideologies. After those enemies were defeated, the consequences of making a deal with Imu became apparent and thus were forced into a second contract to extend their lifespan by remaining in Marijoa. In this situation, Lily didn't accept the new contract and made a "mistake", and Imu showed the other 18 families what happens when they don't accept this second contract

• (Speculation) To this point, I would love to see parallels to Sugar's df powers where Imu converted these 19 heads into inanimate objects. It would be especially redeeming if those 19 heads were turned into the weapons we see planted around the Empty Throne.
  • (Speculation) It would be very interesting if the person with the Nikyu Nikyu df that disseminated the poneglyphs also warped Pluton to Wano or teleported the WG's Uranus "battery source" to an untold location. But that's just a guess

➡️ I believe the truth is Imu forced a second contract and some families were on Imu's side and some weren't. I would even go as far as argue these CDs could not return to their kingdoms because their military became Imu's army during the war, and thus they had no way to ensure their survival - they were too afraid of being killed by their own people (obviously the Nefertari family were an exception).

Assuming this is true, 2 problems come to mind:

1. Why would they record that Lily rejected it? And how wasn't the rest of the Nefertari family moved to Mariejoa? I believe it was a PR move to let it be known that Lily was "allowed to leave" but in actuality was forced to adhere to Imu's contract (and eventually broke it). It allowed for continuity in historical records and showcased the WG in a better light (more reasonable/peaceful)

2. CDs in present time are allowed to leave Marijoa unharmed (ch763). When it happens, they are stripped of their status and sent down to the lower realm, never allowed back again (except Donflamingo). Why aren't Imu or the Gorosei worried about demoted CDs spilling Marijoa's secrets? The CDs have cultivated untold levels of animosity from the rest of the world due to their actions against the lower realm for the past 800+ years. CDs are arrogant, narcissistic, and as empathetic as a brick wall. They view regular humans as lesser species (not all of them are like this, but it's what the majority appear to be to the rest of the world). So, even if there is an educated CD that was willing to reveal all of Marijoa's secrets, I believe they wouldn't have the soft skills nor the reputation to make anyone believe them.

To sum, at a high level:
➡️ 800+ years ago, I believe Imu used a first contract to give the royal families enough power to go against Joyboy and the Ancient Kingdom, and then enacted a second contract to establish full control over the 19 royal families' lives, forcing them to stay in Marijoa and submit to Imu's rule. Lily used a loophole in the first to commit her "great mistake" and died because she did not accept the second contract. Imu scrubbed the history books and established the WG and Marines to create a peaceful self-sustaining ecosystem. As a result, the CDs became the royal family of the allied lands, a win-win for both parties.

➡️ Through centuries of education, the CDs have created a reputation & disposition that reduced any chance of a rebellion being successful. The HKs enforce their version of "law and order" at Marijoa so any morally upright or dangerous CDs are culled (ch1086). The Holy Land is designed such that CDs feel the most comfortable there; there is no other place like it, which means there is no reason for the CDs to want to live elsewhere

Conclusion

If you made it this far, thank you for reading. I've summarized my points with ➡️ keys, unfortunately there were so many small nuances I tried to address that led to this getting longer and longer. Also any bullet points with (Speculation) in front of it should be treated for what it is - an idea that I really liked but can't prove right now.

Long story short: Joyboy and the Ancient Kingdom struggled largely due to Imu's extensive collection of abilities. Imu's powers can emulate powers like immortality/regeneration via contracts and can perform long-distance possession/communication/summoning through manipulation of souls (or shadows) with contracted individuals. With these powers bestowed to the allied royal families and Imu's ability to turn friends into foe, it's easy to imagine how the Ancient Kingdom and Joyboy were defeated. Moreover, convincing these (perceived) self-centered royals to stay in Marijoa could only be done by force - a forced contract to submit to Imu's authority and remain in Marijoa. That way, Imu established the WG and CDs were elevated to a status above humanity.

Hope you enjoyed reading~

[wispy sphinx]

This is a very nuanced breakdown and while I don’t agree with all of it and we will clearly will learn more, the layered approach to his influence seems well-founded. I particularly like your idea of covenants and contracts.

Imu seems to represent one of several gods in the mural. Nika represents another but as far as we can tell, while there were multiple Nikas, there has only been one individual with Imu’s abilities that we know of. Their choice of pronoun shows they see themselves as divine, and are seen as divine by the Celestial Dragons. In truth, they’re a petulant, manchild like person who seems to have very warped feelings towards Lily and her descendant, Vivi.

I expect we’ll learn more about the god of the sea and god of the forest in the medium term. Perhaps the man marked with flame has insight. We haven’t seen a character who can control liquid water yet.

[carmine tangle]

The problem with this is that Usopp destroyed the upper half of Gunko

[carmine tangle]

Gunko is a possessed person that got brainwashed. Probably has a strong connection to Brook

[steady prism]

Since that convo diverged from the initial theory, please take any replies to #manga-serious moving forward

[steady prism]

I appreciate you taking the time to read it! Yeah Sugar’s powers and Dressrosa’s story as a whole felt like a microcosm of what Imu has done during the Void Century. Overall, it really feels like Oda has been showcasing Imu’s powers & actions through different characters and different arcs.

I agree that the mural also holds some of the truths of what happened in the Void Century. For example, the forest god’s description and “man killed the sun and became god” in the second world evoked parallels to Imu’s domi reversi contracts and the allied kingdoms defeating Joyboy’s faction. The latter statement of “the sea god stormed” to me was illustrating the water levels rising due to ancient weapons usage during the war (according to VP’s speech in ch1115), no water df needed. But I’m saving all of that for another theory mebbe. Anyway agreed, the man marked by flames is definitely aware of some truths we aren’t privy to yet.

[swift cosmos]

A current Theory I have is that the Island Gaimon was on was where a Celestian Dragon hunt took place.

[steady prism]

It’s an interesting idea. Because of the rules of this channel, could you elaborate some more? Do you have any evidence/reasoning to pull from?

[swift cosmos]

For me, It's bascally based on the initial setup for the prize chests on God Valley

Combined with the fact that is the island is known as the island of rare animals. Something that the celestial dragons wouldn't have qualms of hunting them at all

[swift cosmos]

Finally, it's based on the fact that Gaimon's chapter is by far the strangest One Piece chapters in the story

It bascally is a stand alone chapter that currently served no place in the grander story of one piece. Why do you think they cut that story out in the live action?

(The last stament is a rethorical question)

[steady prism]

@mighty falcon please take that convo to #manga-serious . I’ve already told Melorn to do that

[remote silo]

Just wanted to say I really like this quite a bit! The world of One Piece itself is kinda this island, where the world has already been looted but the treasure we can unearth is endless

[swift cosmos]

As I stated before, Gaimon is one of the strangest chapters in the series

[remote silo]

Yeah it’s like Long Ring Long Land. Not a story people think a lot about in the grand scheme of things. But they should, imo

[swift cosmos]

Long right long lan was the first time we heard of Davy Jones

Gaimon to me is a episode that could be removed at this moment in the story and it won't affect your understanding of the story

[remote silo]

Yeah that’s the argument I was referring to. I felt similarly that long ring long land was something people rushed through cause it precedes one of the best sagas and can feel like a silly side quest. But the story proved out its importance. Wouldn’t be surprised if Gaimon’s island gets a similar treatment

[swift cosmos]

Like in what capacity though

[remote silo]

In the way you described with your theory

[patent mountain]

Mu's Ability, the Ink-Ink Fruit

Part I: The brush
Today I will be explaining the best theory in the op community. Let's start in chronological order with little garden. This is where Imus power starts to become foreshadowed by the fearsome Miss Goldenweek who used black paint to make people betray their closest friends and do the opposite of what they say, similar to domni reverse but with the use of black paint. However, I believe that Imu uses ink instead of paint which I will go through in more detail later.

[patent mountain]

Part II: The Feather
Now in Jaya arc, the straw hats enter a ship that fell from the sky islands and see a picture of a random woman, but more importantly they find a chest and when they open it they find nothing but a single feather. What are feathers used for? Writing things with ink. I believe that this is another instance where Oda foreshadowed Imu's ability. The feather has connotations of writing and control which will make sense soon.

[patent mountain]

Part III: Supression of History
To this day, it's still a mystery how every single civilisation seemingly lost every record they had of the 100 year gap of the void century. Somehow, the only remaining records are the phoneglyphs which are engraved with stone instead of being written with ink. I believe that Imu awakened his power to be able to delete and edit anything written by ink which explains clovers' words and why the phoneglyphs are the only remaining piece of the gap created by Imu after he purposely eradicated every historical record.

[patent mountain]

Part IV: Rule Forever
As foreshadowed by our goat Miss Goldenweek, Imu uses his devil fruit ability in a similar way. I think he creates "contracts" for people to follow similar to how sugar forces her toys to follow the contract she makes once she turns them into toys. If the contract is broken, he can eliminate them and silence them as shown when Saturn is killed and a strange liquid that could be ink was splattered out The only person who was an exception to Imu's powers was Lily who managed to send a letter to Alabasta and most likely evading Imu's ability.

[versed hamlet]

My Response:

Meek's Response:

I agree.

[alpine sphinx]

or even the ability to write up contracts, that when agreed upon or signed, become magically binding, makes perfect sense as an ability for the ink ink fruit (rather than forcing someone to obey like sugar)

imu also has a grimoire when possessing gunko, could also be connected

i do think that oda would have a more thematically significant fruit/power for imu but i do like this theory

[limber nova]

What if davy jones isn’t dead

What if he’s stuck at the bottom of the sea

[pure raven]

Traingles of One piece

Ok if Davy Jone is alive and considering the myth about Davy Jone locker. Then we have to speculate where are the possible areas where Davy Jone may be

Florian Triangle

Its like this so far we know that Florian Triangle is one of the greatest mysteries in One Piece. It is a demonic stretch of sea that must be sailed to travel from Water 7 to Fish-Man Island. Florian Triangle can be said to be the equivalent of Bermuda Triangle in One Piece. Unfortunately, the anime never described this place thoroughly. But the series did reveal that only 1% of the total pirates managed to pass through this mysterious stretch of sea. Next is,

Gates of Justice

The Gates of Justice are three gigantic structures that are each located at the World Government's three primary strongholds in the Paradise half of the Grand Line, They resemble large gates built into the air with the symbol of the World Government on them.

The judicial island Enies Lobby, the underwater prison Impel Down, and the now former Marine Headquarters Marineford.

So its possible that Government has something between these three as the water current considering how much safe its that makes a underwater prison

[alpine sphinx]

any reason for him to specifically be in a triangle?

[pure raven]

Not really just considering that he must be imprisoned or made it by himself and WG have made the Gates of Justice around them. Well if its not a triangle then it can be like Davy Jones in one of the moons of One piece earth or even inside Red Line or just anywhere. Just I said that is to make that Locket is like a locked place

[limber nova]

Maybe imu trapped him there, Davy is probably immortal so imu couldn’t kill him by normal means so he just trapped him there or someone around davy’s time

[main galleon]

I think the real enemy at the end is davy jones. During long ring long islan we learned that davy joney claims every sinking ship and treasure but what stops him from claiming whole island and their people? If Imu sinks every island, that plays totally into davys hands.

[mighty falcon]

Perhaps but still pretty sure Lafitte no diffs

There’s a reason his fruit has no name

[regal raptor]

I got a theory that, maybe Davy is the first King of the world then Joyboy fought Davy for freedom. Then Imu is one of Davy friend that help him to defeat joyboy. After they defeat joyboy, Imu betray Davy for the crown.

[pure raven]

Yeah this is interesting,

From the canon,

• The Void Century (900 years ago): This is the mysterious period when the Ancient Kingdom was destroyed by the 20 nations that later formed the World Government. Joy Boy is directly tied to this era, and Imu is implied to have existed since then.

• Joy Boy’s Promise: Joy Boy tried to fulfill a promise to the Fish-Men (Noah and the Sea Kings) but failed. This paints him as a liberator who wanted freedom for oppressed peoples.

• Imu’s Role: Imu sits on the Empty Throne, symbolizing supreme authority. The throne was meant to be unoccupied to show equality among the 20 kings, but Imu secretly rules, suggesting betrayal and manipulation.

• Davy Back Fight: The pirate game where crews bet their members is named after “Davy.” Oda loves embedding lore in playful concepts, so it’s possible “Davy” was once a legendary figure whose name survived only as a distorted tradition.

• The Ancient Weapons: Poseidon, Pluton, and Uranus are tied to Joy Boy’s era. Whoever controlled them could dominate the seas and the world. If Davy was the “first king,” he may have wielded one of these weapons, and Imu’s betrayal could be linked to seizing control of them.

Making it more relatable

Instead of treating Davy, Joy Boy, and Imu as abstract mythic figures, let’s imagine them as people with motives

• Davy as the First King: He could have started with noble intentions—uniting scattered tribes under one banner to stop endless wars. But power isolates, and his rule may have felt oppressive to those who valued freedom.

• Joy Boy as the Rebel: Not just a “hero,” but someone who empathized with the oppressed. He fought not to destroy Davy personally, but to break the chains of centralized power.

• Imu as the Friend-Turned-Betrayer: Perhaps Imu was Davy’s closest ally, someone who believed in order but grew resentful of Davy’s authority. Helping defeat Joy Boy could have been framed as “restoring balance,” but once Joy Boy was gone, ambition took over. Betrayal wasn’t just political—it was personal.

Alternative scenarios

• Davy as a Symbol, Not a Person: “Davy” could represent the collective of the 20 kings. Joy Boy fought against their oppression, but Imu emerged as the one who consolidated their victory.

• Imu as Joy Boy’s Ally Turned Enemy: Maybe Imu originally fought alongside Joy Boy but switched sides when the tide turned, betraying him instead of Davy.

• Joy Boy as a Tragic King: Instead of a rebel, Joy Boy himself might have been the original king who failed his people, and “Davy” was just a distorted memory of his rival.

[regal raptor]

Davy D. Jones can't be symbol as Xebec ask Imu who is stronger

[fringe hemlock]

HOLY SHIT SOMEONE WITH THE SAME IDEA AS ME!!!!!!! SICK!!!!!!! Have you considered/noticed the hints toward this in Wano? Kuro means black and sumi means ink, Kanjuro was a Kurozumi and his story ends with him turning into an Imu-esque ink blob. His fruit is also the same shape as the tip of Nika’s spear which could also be interpreted as a pen or brush. The shape is also reminiscent of the squids Oda has drawn, and squids of course have ink. I have like a year of thoughts n research on this topic but i don’t wanna bombard u.

[misty rain]

is that a rule?

[steady prism]

Yeah, check the channel description

Edit: Fez, since you haven’t edited your previous message to explain anything about your theory, it has been deleted. Feel free to repost your theory whenever you’re ready

[little kelp]

this is how you think the next arcs will follow?

[misty rain]

Yea

[wild vector]

The legendary fruit stolen from elbaph was the rumble rumble fruit.

The design was revealed just before the start of the elbaph arc.

The fruit itself could be forbidden in elbaph because it has the potential to completely destroy their country.

Rocks wanted the fruit for Harald so he could create a power station and means of supply free energy. The electricy forge technique used by a giant could help a genius scientist build power plant with ease.

We see from enels cover story that the moon has technology capable of storing and harnessing electrical energy. The tubes and sphere are all set up for distribution.

It's possible the giants on elbaph were tasked with holding onto the fruit because of how powerful it is.

It ended up with enel because they were trying to recruit him for holy knights or to rule birka. If the rumble rumble fruit has some sort of connection to sky people then it's possible Imu wanted their involvement for something.

The latest time enel has been mentioned was by usopp when he heard the gods Knights mentality.

[pure raven]

Still by the canon evidence,

Why the “Elbaf’s Legendary Fruit is not Rumble-Rumble Fruit”

• Ownership of the Fruit

Enel is the confirmed user of the Rumble-Rumble Fruit. The Goro Goro no Mi is canonically tied to Enel. Oda has never hinted that it originated from Elbaf or was stolen from there. If it were Elbaf’s “forbidden fruit,” we’d expect at least some mention of its history in the Skypiea arc or later. No mention in the manga or SBS that it originated from Elbaf or was stolen.

• Elbaf’s lore doesn’t reference electricity. Giants are known for their warrior culture, honor, and Norse-inspired traditions. Their legendary status comes from strength and battle, not technology or energy. Nothing in canon suggests they feared or banned a lightning-based fruit.

• Enel’s moon cover story is separate. The lunar technology Enel discovers is canon, but it’s tied to Skypiea’s ancient civilization, not Elbaf. The tubes and spheres show a connection between electricity and sky people, not giants.

• Imu and the Holy Knights have no link to Enel. Imu’s motives are still a mystery, and the Holy Knights are barely introduced. There’s no canon evidence that Enel was meant to join them or that his fruit connects to their plans.

• Fruit Origins

Devil Fruits appear randomly across the seas when their user dies, and their exact spawning mechanics are mysterious. Oda has never tied the Rumble-Rumble Fruit to Elbaf or the New World.

[pure raven]

Also there are more,

• Location mismatch:

Enel’s fruit is introduced in Paradise, but Elbaf is in the New World. If Elbaf had been guarding it, canon would need to explain how it ended up in Skypiea. That gap is never addressed.

• No giant connection:

Nothing in canon suggests the Rumble-Rumble Fruit was designed for giants or that Enel couldn’t use it to its fullest. In fact, Enel’s destructive feats (Raigo, 200 million volts) show he wielded it extremely effectively.

[little kelp]

@wild vector

[hollow dew]

Read about speculations of domi reversi can only be used against someone within their homeland. How does that explain why imu sink countries?

[turbid trail]

Adding onto this, davy jones has a promise to imu according to rocks, and a “davy back fight” is one that turns a pirate enemy into your own crewmate… similar to domi reversi. Additionally, davy was potentially a former king of the world, similar to imu… is it possible that davy originally had imus devil fruit, and imu killed him for it?

Would be great full circle moment, as blackbeard (the one who inherited davys will) started on his path by killing thatch for the yami yami no mi, and goes around killing devil fruit users for their fruits… hes coming for you, imu

[pure raven]

Domi Reversi as a hypothesis

Considering the Canon

• Domi Reversi ability: Imu can flip targets into demonic states, often symbolized as pieces on a board game being turned.

• Emotion trigger: Negative emotions (rage, despair, hatred) seem to activate the reversal.

• God Valley Incident: Entire Davy clan except for Eris and Teach, excluding Rocks D. Xebec who got ragebaited by Imu and directly went under demonic transformation, were flipped during this event.

• Manifestation via hosts: Imu has manifested through intermediaries like Gunko and possibly Saturn, unleashing massive bursts of Supreme King Haki.

Theoretically

• Emotion control: The idea that Imu manipulates negative emotions matches the manga’s depiction.

• Non–Devil Fruit users: Giants and clan members without fruits were affected, supporting that Imu taps into a universal “inner devil.”

• Indirect possession: that Imu manifests through hosts (Gunko, Saturn) is consistent with canon.

Still Speculative

• Grimoire and gun: These items appear but their role (catalysts vs. symbolic props) hasn’t been explained.

• Homeland condition: The idea that birthplace or homeland affects susceptibility is unconfirmed. Oda hasn’t clarified if being born on a ship changes anything. Its like what happens if someone gets born on a ship.

• Control vs. corruption: It’s unclear whether Imu fully controls those flipped, or if they simply become chaotic pawns.

• Strongly plausible: Emotional manipulation and non–Devil Fruit vulnerability. Still its Gunko has Devil fruit ability and she is like a special case.

• Unconfirmed speculation: Homeland anchor, grimoire/gun mechanics, and whether Imu gains direct control.

[frail python]

When a gaint who was allie of joyboy realse haki to save the Luffy the 5 elder gone too far from elbaf but yk smt imu bowed down so how imu defted joyboy back then guess
The thing is what if imu tried to attack and island and joyback was forced to come to save ppl like u see the Enis lobby side are in void and and middle part saved beacuse joyboy stretched his body to protect island and imu used anctint weapon to destroy island and which effect joyboy and he got wound and he died and u see Enis lobby always have sun bright on it u can see it sun god nika which is sun power it's to related

MY ONE PIECE THEORY (Joyboy vs Imu — Enies Lobby Connection)

What if Imu didn’t defeat Joyboy in a normal fight…
but in a tragedy caused by an Ancient Weapon?

Here’s the idea:

Imu once targeted an entire island to wipe it out.

Joyboy rushed in to save the people.

To protect them, he stretched his body across the land, acting like a living shield.

Imu then fired an Ancient Weapon blast (likely Uranus).

The island’s outer edges were completely destroyed.

The middle part survived ONLY because Joyboy blocked the attack.

This could explain why Enies Lobby:

has a massive hole around it,

looks like part of the land is missing,

and is always bright, like it’s blessed by the Sun God Nika — Joyboy’s power.

Joyboy saved the island,
but the weapon blast wounded him so badly…
it led to his death.

I rewrite this thng from chat gpt

[placid bay]

Is Blackbeard evil or not and what's his role in the story?

Let's see what we know so far about Marshall D Teach or should I say Davy D Teach.

His father is Rocks D. Xebec is a Descendant of Davy D. Jones and safe to assume the inheritor of his will based on how IMU called him that. Even though he was portrayed as evil in the beginning as the flashback progressed it's safe to assume he is a good guy because he genuinely cared about Harald, both Roger and Garp respected him and he wanted to dethrone IMU.

His mother Eris seems to fully support the values of Xebec, if not even more. We can also safely assume she has the same knowledge about IMU and the hidden history from her reactions so far. Since Eris and Teach escaped together it's also safe to assume she has taught teach everything she knows.

During the God valley incident we see teach really scared and I dare say traumatized. I think this was shown on purpose to us by Oda. IMO the reason is for character development and that trauma will be the reason of certain attributes of his character, maybe multiple personality theories ties to this.

Grown Up Teach has the knowledge of his mother which we can assume entails a plan/way to kill/defeat IMU. He decides to join whitebeard pirates and here we can safely assume he went there to find opportunities to begin his mother's plan (the will of the davy clan or at least his Father's) and get stronger. We can also assume whitebeard let him join knowing he is the son Rocks or let him join because of that. Years later Teach sees Thatch found the Yami Yami no mi which is the kickstarter of his plan. I think we can assume here, based on his mother's character, that for Teach this plan is more important than anything and anyone. So what are his options here:

• 1: Kill Thatch and get the fruit
• 2: Convince Thatch to give him the fruit before he eats it

I think option 2 has too much risk for Teach on something he has planned almost all his life and is the most important thing for him. Also option 1 was probably not hard for him because he didn't join whitebeard to be a crewmember but he joined for his plan so they were never his "nakama" and secondary whitebeard's fruit was part of his plan so he never seen him as a captain.

After he left whitebeard, do we have any idea how he got his crew, did he already have them. Do we know anything about this?

After that he goes to Drum Kingdom for some reason we never got to know. In later chapters Chopper mentions Teach might come for his DF which was taken as a joke. All hito hito no mi fruits were mythical so far and I don't think Chopper's is a random DF. IMO it has great significance as well as Hana Hana no Mi. I think the strawhats DFs are not random or insignificant. He also made a quick stop on Jaya where it seemed to me that Oda wanted portray him as polar opposite of Luffy.

Afterwards he goes to Banaro Island where he pillaged a town (no idea if this is important?) and we get to Teach vs Ace, here it seems like he didn't want to kill Ace and asked him to join his crew which means he thought of him as being valuable for his plan (maybe knew he was Roger's son). When it seemed that there was no way around a death battle he still didn't kill him. Now he either didn't kill him because he liked him or because it was required for him to become Shichibukai. I don't know which one is true if any of those but I think it's worth mentioning.

After that we get to implel down and the reason he became Shichibukai. Here it seems he knew about level 6 and went there to recruit people. Could the people here be connected to god valley or the davy clan, IDK but it sure is NOT random considering his grand plan.

Then he goes to marine fort for his aquisition of Gura Gura no Mi which seems oddly convinient for Teach and puts some dust on the previous 2 reason I mention on why he didn't kill Ace. Here we see a really important thing about Teach's character and that is his pathetic reaction when Whitebeard was about to kill him, which greatly contrasts Luffy's on Loguetown. Here also Whitebeard states that Teach is not the one that will inherit Roger's will and we can assume Joyboy's will.

One year after the war at Marineford, the Blackbeard Pirates fought against the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates led by Marco and ultimately won. Here Teach didn't kill Marco as he is still alive. I think this is worth mentioning, also I don't think we've seen any whitebeard crew DFs on Teach's crew.

After that he goes on a global manhunt for powerful devil fruits for his crew from which I get 2 things. 1 his crew was level 6 impel down strong without DFs and 2 devil fruits seem to play an integral role for his plan. Later he sent Burges to Dressrosa to get Mera Mera no Mi which means Teach has high value on it and maybe this the reason he wanted Ace in his crew or at least one of the reasons. After this he went and destreyed Baltigo which means he doesn't considerr them allies or helpful for his plan against IMU. Then we learn that he really wants Mero Mero no MI to the point he went himself. Why is this fruit so important?

In the final saga Teach got his hands on Zou and Wano Poneglyphs from Heart Pirates and also information on Poseidon and Pluton from Caribou. We also learn that he is still keeping an eye on the Revolutionary Army and is about to do something big.

---

Now lets get to conclusions and speculations.

Did he or will he inherit the will of Davy D Jones. IMO yes for the only reason that this was brought up in the story, there is no reason for the Davy bloodline and will if Teach doesn't inherit it, at least in my mind.

Is he evil or not, can an evil person inherit Jone's will. His character has flows but I attribute most of those to his childhood trauma and maybe his mother. He also shows signs of goodness and respect on some occasions. Is he truly evil or is Oda trying to deceive us similarly to Rocks.

He seems to be the closest to One Piece after Luffy at least with the info we have so far but he knows way more about IMU and so far IMO he seems integral in defeating IMU.

When or will we see BB vs Strawhats. IMO we'll first see BB vs Redhair on their race for One Piece. I think BB vs Strawhats will either happen after IMU war or before One Piece acquisition. Now what will happen first One Piece or IMU war, I always change my mind on that, so I have absolutely no idea.

---

Sorry for the long post and I would love to hear your opinions on any of the points I mentioned.

P.S. Don't worry about flaming me as long as you provide good reasoning in which case I'll be thankful for learning.

[proper marsh]

I feel like in retrospect it’s pretty obvious, and it’s probably been posted here a million times, but Xebec being able to resist Domi Reversi, even for a second, exposes exactly how Luffy/Joyboy/Nika counters Imu. Domi Reversi likely requires both the victim of it to be standing on their homeland and for them to be enraged, whether it’s angry at something or just angry in general idk, probably to be learned. Nikas literal entire shtick is that he brings joy to the people around him; he puts smiles on their faces. Being opposite emotions, those who are fighting around Nika cannot be held under Domi Reversi. Actually decent foreshadowing on Oda’s part having xebec resist until he got ragebaited

[wild vector]

And yet none of this disproves the possibility it could be the rumble fruit.

Location: could literally end up anywhere after being stolen. We know fruits don't grow in the sky, so how did enel get the fruit to begin with?

I giant being able to use it better doesn't mean enel couldn't use it well. All it means is the sheer output of electricity a giant could make is more than a human. Ie if they both held a continuous 200 million volt current, a giant would be able to keep it going longer. They just have more stamina at a base level.

It doesn't matter that the moon story isn't relating to giants specifically. All it matters is that it dates back to before the void century. And the elbaph giants have been keeping it forbidden since then.

The fact that elbaphs culture doesn't have any electricity only supports the forbidden nature of the fruit.

[proper marsh]

Nika nor the Davy clan were hinted to at all either, they just kinda showed up 20 chapters before they became critical to the plot

[proper marsh]

Isn’t it explicitly stated that Loki ate the forbidden fruit

[wild vector]

Nope they just assume he did.

But when we are shown the devil fruit box we see a human sized looking silhouette near it. In the same page gaban mentions he felt someone else there.

[placid bay]

Something like this but in a grander scale. It makes sense. I think we ll get to see all these events in a masive flashback in the future and I can't wait 😄

[loud nimbus]

That would make sense why Imu was crossing out lulusia with ink and a brush

[dusk viper]

Maybe, I was thinking the bolt of lightning marked ghe moment that the nika nika fruit came into existence, because in earlier chapters i think it was Imu who said that if this didnt end now that something worse would occur, this being the tragedy and suffering of the god valley people and the blatant oppression going on in general, and the much worse thing being the sun god returning to take imu down once and for all

[versed hamlet]

Here's my new theory.

Loki is going to follow Harald's supposed footsteps and awaken and lead the Galleila in the current story, eventually.

Buggy is pseudo-Rocks currently, whether related by blood or not, in that he's rounding up a lot of the world's villains unintenitonally through Cross Guild (Mihawk, Crocodile, and maybe other warlords later).

I think Loki's final war arc is to team up with Buggy.

LOKI IS JOINING CROSS GUILD

[steady prism]

!theories friendly reminder this channel's for longer theories. Any one-line ideas should be moved to #manga-serious or #manga

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[quartz grail]

Hey, so, this is just a thought but…

Why is the execution in One Piece done with two glaives? That’s really bloody unusual…

My theory is that someone important in the past had two hearts and couldn’t die without them both being pierced at the same time. You know who I mean…

[steady prism]

Weren’t the glaives used to cut the neck? Also who do you mean?

[quartz grail]

They stabbed the chest, not cut the neck, also, I mean joy boy

It’s a very complicated procedure, smh. Put the blades to the neck, then spin them around to stab the chest…

[steady prism]

Any reason why you’d think Joyboy has 2 hearts? Only person I’ve seen suspected to have more than one heart is BB, who is a Davy clan member

[quartz grail]

Cuz he is the only entity of note ik who lost against the World Govt who had enough influence to change an execution method forever

[keen trellis]

Buggy having Mihawk and Loki? the other three pirate crews might be cooked😔

[patent mountain]

Yeah thats also a good connection! if you have anymore evidence on this topic then lmk

[patent mountain]

Yeah its probably how he also erased gods valley from history and from world maps

[atomic grove]

Is BB Evil? From the moment GV was mentioned by Sengoku, every mention of Rocks, until we got to the actual GV Flashback, was portrayed as evil.
In the end, Rocks ended up being a righteous man.
He had a great friendship with Harald, he cared about peace in Elbaph, he loved his family.

I believe BB carries the Will of Davy, just like his dad, but we dont know enough about Davy to determine who BB really is.

I do believe, if Davy was truly King of the World, as Xebec said, BB has a rightful claim to the throne.
Look at this pattern-
Alabasta: Crocodile was the false king that framed Cobra, but Croc was taken out and Cobra was redeemed and restored.
Skypeia: Enel was false god (king), branded Ganfor a rebel (framing king), but Enel was defeated and Ganfor was redeemed and restored.
Dressrosa: Doflamingo was false king, framed king Riku, was defeated, redeeming and restoring King Riku.
Wano: slightly different, but Orochi and Kaido took over Wano from the Kozuki clan, whom they assumed to have killed, but same pattern of false king being defeated and rightful king rising back to power.

So, Davy Jones may have been the rightful King of the World, and Imu usurped that throne. However, Joyboy (the hero figure aka LUFFY) failed, somehow.

The only difference between Blackbeard and Cobra, Ganfor, Riku, and the Kozuki's is his method to take back throne.

[loud nimbus]

This is a simple yet terrifying power. The ability to manipulate the written word….

Or the narrative…but literally and also symbolic. Explains a lot. It though if Imu could change the contents of any literature that has ink, why not do the same to the books from O’Hara? Why burn them?

[alpine sphinx]

honestly i doubt imu has the ability to manipulate written word specifically, since we see how much impact big news morgans has, and how the wg has to use the navy to suppress researchers

but it does tie imu to the idea of propaganda and controlling through literature, as well as the fact that power can be more of a "written" thing (orders/authority through chain of command)

im pretty sure it is explicity stated this recent chapter that they just bribed the newspaper to run the story they wanted

[proud escarp]

Is it possible Emu will take control of Shanks to fight Luffy/blackbeard?

[iron current]

Thats like asking "is it possible that Garling is a spy?" Like sure, a lot is possible, but this channel is meant for thought out theories not asking questions

[languid fractal]

My theory is Imu got Hito Hito no Mi that is counterpart to Sun God, perhaps a devil or demon, since obviously it isn't a Yami Yami fruit. He has ability stretch and change his form, perhaps a nod to Luffy's rubber. After Luffy awakened, Luffy could transform other things and people into comical form, inject joys into other people. Imu might be opposite, injecting rage and transform and control them into devils using domi-reversi.

[plush pike]

I have an idea that part of the reason why Blackbeard wanted to create a World Government sanctioned country is because the Ancient Kingdom was also a kingdom of pirates, and that's why it was not recognized by the twenty kings who later became the World Government. If the king of the Ancient Kingdom was Davy Jones (previous King of the World before Imu), that would make a lot of sense. It's kind of historical revenge for not recognizing the Ancient Kingdom by forcing them to recognize Blackbeard's kingdom.

[languid fractal]

My thought is there's no true good or evil in this. Everyone has their own agenda.

• Imu goal is to maintain his throne.
• Blackbeard goal is to claim the throne of Imu. Which also mean killing Imu.
• Shanks goal is a conservative goal. He wants to the same status quo and truce that exist pirate and govt in the early volumes.
• Dragon goal is to destroy the celestial social class, thus the World Govt order.
• Luffy just wanna be the pirate king.

All these points to One Piece. I think these people kinda guessed that whatever one piece is, it is capable to provide them with enough power to achieve their goal in one swoop.

[vale plover]

This begs the question, “how did the king of the world came to be just the king of a section of the world”. I think that’s by his own design and then went he tried to create ties with other resurfacing kingdoms they rejected them. Could tie well with the revenge aspect because imagine you giving the world a chance to flourish in their own ways and they end up rejecting you, and eventually destroying you

Thinking about it better, the ancient kingdom might what the world government is today. A sort of kingdom or organization that oversees other kingdoms

[neat magnet]

Imu has a greater goal than to maintain his throne. He drastically transforms the world by sinking it. We don't know why he does this yet.

[languid fractal]

Maybe he is trying to bury One Piece under the sea by flooding the whole world. Theres no need to pinpoint the location when you can just shotgun it.

I mean seriously, Imu has always taken an extreme approach like wiping out an island to kill 1 guy. It's not outside the realm to think hes going to flood the world just to sink the laugh tale.

[plush pike]

Imu is at the top of the World Government, an organization that is said to be "The world". The Ancient Kingdom was far more technologically advanced and probably more powerful as well. And yet the WG doesn't control Wano or Elbaf, two of the most powerful nations in the current One Piece world. So the Ancient Kingdom was probably just so powerful their king basically had influence everywhere, even in Wano and Elbaf. This was then what made him "King of the world" even though he was "just" king of the Ancient Kingdom.

[patent mountain]

It might even be the first awakened logia

But as for Ohara, I think theres a way to bypass Imu which Lily, Morgan and Ohara scholars couldve used but most people in the void century were unaware of

[fringe hemlock]

not only is it possible, its already happening. thats what Shamrock is, hence why we haven’t seen both simultaneously in the present

[proud escarp]

This would make sense. Luffy liberates while Imu imprisons. Like with saturn maybe Imu could have even taken his freedom to die.

[swift cosmos]

Reminder that everything that Vegapunk has pales in comparison to the void Century

[fossil eagle]

Nah

[untold locust]

Is it a possibility, Blackbeard or Eris somehow found a way to put their soul (Eris & Xebec) in BB? 🤔

[chrome jacinth]

Alot of people think black beard has 3 souls.
But in actuality he only has 2 currently

[plush pike]

Vegapunk does literally state that what he has is a pale imitation of the Void Century's technologies. His Vegaforce-01 is literally an imitation of Emeth.

[steady prism]

Since this channel is for theories, do you have any evidence/reasoning to support that idea?

Otherwise, you can brainstorm in #manga-serious

[chilly stump]

Alright I have a theory about emeth and zunesha,

So we see in gv and elbaph that imu uses domi reversi to turn ppl into demons (shown on rocks, dorry and broggy),

And we know that when we see zunesha and emeth, they both apologise to joyboy,

So, the theory is that in the final war of joyboy vs imu and the 20 kings,

Imu uses domi reversi on zunesha and emeth to use them against joyboy,

which would explain why zunesha was punished to walk for 800 years SINCE the war,

and emeth to begin apologising to joyboy.

(This may not be accurate its just my speculation)

[random creek]

Is there already a theory where Luffy's dream is to destroy the world?

That's what I think it is after this last chapter.

[chrome jacinth]

Don't take destroy the world to literal

[languid fractal]

then how did they undo the curse? There are existence like gunko or elders that show us that he can maintain control for decades if not century.

[languid fractal]

My theory is the motive of Joy Boy is to terraform the world as a free world for foreign races like giants, mermaids, buccaneer, etc. Back then, the twenty kingdoms reject them as barbarian. Imu is prime example, he institutes certain bloodline pecking order in the marjois. JB probably just want a place where every races can hang out in his kingdom. This include the bringing mermaids up with Noah.

Also I am inclined on Joy Boy deliberately surrender his life, rather than losing the war. The thing is, he has time to prepare for his passing... the ponegryph, one piece, laugh tale, weapons, Will of D. The possibility is high that he knew his impending death.

[dark light]

I am 100% certain Kuzan will be on Elbaph and I have four reasons for it:

One: Kuzan does not want Teach to get the One Piece. Why do I say this? Almost all of his actions so far have been in order to delay Teach from actually getting it: One by giving Teach another agenda, Two: by giving him an obvious red herring who can't read Poneglyphs, and 3: We obviously see that Kuzan isn't putting his full heart into fighting Garp.

The second reason is because the Straw Hats will end up in a very precarious, if not untenable situation at Elbaph at some point before Luffy and Co leave, and this is especially due to Nico Robin being in grave danger.

The third reason is Saul and Robin are both currently there, and it would make thematic sense the ones who set him on this path would be met by him sometime this arc.

The Final reason is: Teach and his crew has already went to both of the other potential locations from Wano, which Teach will most certainly invade next due to the location of Pluton, the existence of the Kōzuki clan, which Teach will be certain knows how to read Poneglyphs, unlike Pudding, and Hachinosu's preexisting close proximity.

[chilly stump]

well, we see in gv that the curse can be broken through using a strong amount of advanced conquerors haki. Its also shown that joyboy had immense haki and mastery (shown where emeth uses joyboys haki against the gorosei) so its likely that joyboy used his immense conquerors haki to break the curse on emeth and zunesha during the war.

[languid fractal]

Then wouldn't joyboy just break the curse during the war? The curse would immediately be broken after it is casted, there's no need for punishment narrative. If he can seal the haki in the robe, he could cast it whenever he wanted.

[steady prism]

@misty rain please ask that in #manga or #manga-serious

[heavy kiln]

Flooding the world was to kill devil fruit users

[waxen obsidian]

Kidnapping pudding isn’t to delay Bb. It was probably Bb who ordered him to kidnap her considering he went with van augar. Him being emotional during his fight with garp doesn’t mean he isn’t supporting Bb. He could have easily have done nothing and let Garp go but he decided to help Bb by capturing Garp instead. Kuzan/ the Bb pirates are way to busy to go out on a sidetour to elbaf where they know nothing what’s goin on there. Way more likely they go to wano and claim pluton and end up fighting the red haired pirates or he goes kidnaps shirahoshi.

[quasi needle]

no he didnt just let garp go bcus then he would be thrown out of Bb' s crew to delay him from getting the one piece and Bb isnt the type of person to do unneccseary fights cus lets be fr shanks is not letting that happend so is yamato.

[waxen obsidian]

he wouldnt have been thrown out. BB and Kuzan help eachother to acheive their dreams and he is free to do as he wants. BB himself said he is free to do as he pleases as long as they help eachother out.

[quasi needle]

yes but wouldnt not fighting garp go against blakbeard in turn not helping him out

and u forgot the part where Bb said kuzan is free to do anything so i didnt know that while wirting knwing the panel/episode would be nice

[deep kestrel]

Meh. None of this particularly supports him going to Elbaph though. Seems like something that can happen, just in the far future

[obsidian glacier]

So since it's been like identified or figured out that G5 basically works with Luffy's imagination and the entire "Gum-Gum" fruit thing was a fluke, it made me think of the possibility that basically Luffy's entire journey with the devil fruit is basically how he imagines a "Gum-Gum" fruit would work
What I mean is, from the moment Shanks told Luffy that he ate the "Gum-Gum" fruit he lied, Shanks basically knew how the Human fruit model Nika works and manipulated Luffy's imagination, into thinking he ate the Gum-Gum fruit instead, with that Luffy basically ventured the entire East Blue and Grand-Line with his own imagination

[quasi needle]

agreed nice one

[chrome jacinth]

This would make sense

[tepid parcel]

agreed, it's always felt like Looney Tunes powers

[obsidian glacier]

I mean it is kinda weird how Luffy's forms work or "Gears" to be more specific, now excluding G5, Luffy's other Gears like his G4 Bounce man, Snake man AND Tank man, are all weird transformations, bounce man basically allows him to fly, snake man can turn clouds into snakes and tank man is just him eating loads of food, look at how huge he gets after(this actually applies to each and everytime he eats) so in a way this all just sums up to Luffy's imagination basically making up this weird logic and the fruit just allowing it coz that's the way it works

[tepid parcel]

blowing air into your bones? making your blood pump faster by turning your legs into pistons?

[obsidian glacier]

I'll make more theories like this in future hopefully

[quasi needle]

maybe all devil fruits work in gears but luffy is the only one who figured it out

[tepid parcel]

This also ties in nicely to when Luffy thinks he can just grow teeth back by drinking milk. He manifests his own reality.

[obsidian glacier]

Well if that were the case it would mean for 800 years, Luffy was basically the first DF user to figure out how they work and the rest of the others didn't even have a clue, even scientists that were researching Devil Fruits didn't notice this judging by how there's a DF encyclopedia

[chrome jacinth]

I doubt all df would work like gears, I just don't see a gear 3 of a logia

[quasi needle]

no we dont know much about that era naywya how it was basically no clue

[obsidian glacier]

Understood but I'm just pointing it out that, with how long DFs have been know, don't you think it would be kinda weird if Luffy was the first to figure this out?

[quasi needle]

what if its just zoans cus i dont think its only human fruit model nkia

[chrome jacinth]

Well zoans do have base (1), hybrid (2) and full transformation (3) and with an awakening it could be considered (4) but I doubt it

Personally the only other close thing to gears is choppers different points

[quasi needle]

luffys way of thinking is very differnt from other people hes genetic as we see it can work in another ther way not just directly 1s form 2nd form 3rd form 4th and etc

[chrome jacinth]

Personally I feel like that would only be for mythical zoans

[quasi needle]

could be all im saying is it is deffinitely not just for luffys devil fruit the word gear feel too common for it to be just for one fruit and its mechanics

[oak geode]

I wonder if Luffy actually gets reality warping abilities.

[silver abyss]

What was my last post here

@swift plover this was my last theory #manga-theories message

Did I cook?

[slender fulcrum]

I think ancient weapons are not weapons. They were tool designed to rebuilt the world.
Joy Boy hid them for future generation to remake the world after everything would settle

[swift plover]

… im sorry, all the shitty Mihawk theories have rendered me unable to take any Mihawk theories seriously

[silver abyss]

[swift plover]

W Labuse cameo tho 😭

[silver abyss]

That was well before I met Papers and I had much more material I didnt cover

[swift plover]

Ahh i see

[silver abyss]

Like how Rocks is inspired from Henry Every

And how William Kidd has way more in common with Teach in One Piece than Eustass Kid

[swift plover]

… I didnt manage to get that far

[silver abyss]

Its okay, neither did I

[swift plover]

glad im not alone

[silver abyss]

Ive done a lot of reading on the War of the Spanish Succession and the Golden Age of Piracy, its insane how many recorded irl events and characters Oda has adapted into the fiction. Most people catch Labuse, Bonnie, Jack, Kid, etc, but like most if not all the important characters have some significant base inspiration.

[timid sapphire]

Is there any theory as to what the heck that egg on Roger’s ship is? It’s quite likely been there before shanks was even born up to him being a teenager at Roger’s execution

[pure tusk]

100% that’s one of my favorite things that to look into is in pirate history one of my theories was how the name of the Ancient kingdom was already hinted in ch 10 based on the Viking kingdom of York and then finally revealed in ch 1118 when we didn’t realize it. I made like a short theory about it https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/QBukX7Q7op

[swift plover]

thats cool icl

[silver abyss]

Aww mane locked post but id upvote if I could

[pure tusk]

All good appreciate the support im hoping the anime episode that comes out next two weeks will show us it being said. also you got to check out one of my other Reddit theories that got turned into video it’s about the emerald city being Uranus I promise this won’t disappoint https://youtu.be/KNAoKnNrvLo?si=89F5G5YGd2jjtlaE

I’m working on another theory but it’s going to combine multiple theories including these 2 theories about not only the name of the ancient kingdom but what exactly it is and Vegapunk told us all that in the prior arc it just took some digging

[silver abyss]

Awesome ill check that out when its rdy too!

[chrome jacinth]

The emerald city is just mary geoise

[silk flicker]

Has anyone found concrete info regarding Buggy having any sort of relation to rocks? He’s the same exact age as shanks which means he was born either during god valley, shortly after or right before

[chrome gate]

Not a theory, but if Luffy’s fruit isn’t actually the Gum-Gum Fruit, then do you think there’s a real Gum-Gum Fruit out there somewhere?

[wild vector]

Nothing really. Only the intentional similar looking bounty poster.

He could potentially have some connection to the muggy kingdom since he named his weapon that. Just a few chapters after we are shown the muggy kingdom

[slender fulcrum]

I don't think so. The WG invented a new fruit to hide the true nature of the Nika's fruit. If they took an existing fruit to rename Nika, they'd have trouble if at one point two rubber fruits came into public light. That'd mean that one fruit is not the real rubber fruit, people would then try to ask question about it. Plus, they can't invent the form of the fruit so if there are two rubber fruit looking different it would cause unecessary attention.

For me there is no rubber fruit, it's just another name for the Nika Nika no mi
BTW I also think the WG got a full collection of rare devil fruit in Mariejoie that are not even known to the public or being in the DF encyclopedia, and are " out of the circuit " of devil fruit by being locked forever away from mortal eyes

[wild vector]

With every other fruit we have seen and the duplicate fruits like ton and kilo, it's definitely possible.

Assuming it was always planned as such, then we may get an explanation for why no one has transformed into Nika before if they had it. Seems odd to not understand your own Zoan fruit.

[slender fulcrum]

I've a theory on the awakening stuff and I think that's why it was hard to awaken nika's.

Kaido said " awakening happen when one's spirit and mind align with the fruit "

• Dolflamingo had the string string fruit. We know he became manipulative and pulled string in the shadow. his whole personnality became exactly like his fruit. he pulled string and stuff to manipulate people. So in the end he triggered his awakening.

• Luffy's fruit is " nika, the warrior of liberation ". To awaken his fruit, one with the Nika fruit needs to have the most free spirit and act as a beacon of freedom. And if you follow that theory, then it is perfectly clear why the five Elders feared Luffy would awaken his fruit in Wano. He was fighting to liberate a whole country from slavery, against one of the most terrible foes. Most of Luffy past deeds were in favor of freeing slaves and people. It's no wonder his fruit awakened to that " state of mind " that was followed by direct action aligned with the mind and the fruit's nature

That would also explains why nobody managed to awaken nika's before. Probably because there was no " golden age of piracy " and there was nobody as free as luffy that was able to take the fight to liberate entire country while having this fruit

[wild vector]

The promise to mentioned to Imu and the promise from legend are probably the same. What are the chances we have 2 promises that go beyond generations and have historical legend surrounding them?

The ancient kingdom and Imus alliance were enemies. I think it's safe to conclude Davy was the king of ancient kingdom. Rather than try to conquer other nations and force them into compliance, the ancient kingdom probably acted benevolently.

All we really know about the promise from fishman island is it involves Noah. And being emigrated up to the surface to live.

So I think the promise was a world where they would be free to live on the surface. But since joyboy and Davy didn't win, the promise of a better world wasn't fulfilled.

The story of noahs arc in the Bible is basically about taking 1 of each animal in a giant ship after flooding destroys their home.

If oda is going to mirror this in any way, it's possible the first time Noah was used was to take the minks from point a to point b. Since shandora was invaded my guess is they lived on jaya post flood.

When Davy joyboy fell then the minks went on the move. This is their version of the fishman staying underwater. The world isn't safe for races like them.

A king of the world is just a title. A king among kings. Who acts as an example for how their kingdoms should function.

With everything rocks was shown doing, the only reason we have to believe he's evil is world government propaganda.

This time the promise will be fulfilled by Luffy and buggy, not Blackbeard like the fan base has heavily agreed on.

Luffy has already gotten wano, alabasta, zou, shandora, provedence, dressrosa, drum kingdoms as allies. The military force of Kano.

In his future are probably Amazon Lily, elbaph, tottoland, the entirety of the north blue(through Sanji), etc. he's amassing kingdoms with their own militaries by his side.

Although Luffy wouldn't rally them in his name, Vivi and buggy certainly would.

[wild vector]

I'm kinda leaning towards a human releasing he has another human transformation is just hard to do.

Ie: if you gave the gum gum fruit to an inanimate object, it would look like gear 5.

[pure tusk]

Have you atleast seen my theory yet?

[slender fulcrum]

I think Davy and Joy Boy were two different being. One was ruling the Ancient Kingdom, the other one, wanted to be free and became the first Pirate.

And I think , through random kind of event, Joy boy inadvertly put the ancient kingdom and Imu's allies into war

I always remember the " The truth is maybe not what you think it is " that Rayleigh told Robin

And the mural of Elbaph convinced me of that too. Joy Boy fueled the flame of war because of his freedom, he probably stirred shit with his freedom antics and it made a civil unrest that irritated both the AK and the soon to be WG.

There was no good or evil in that void century, it was all shades of grey

As for the promise, I don't think it's the same.

I think Imu made a promises to Davy, probably in exchange for Imu's devil fruit or power or some shit, but Imu didn't respect his side of the bargain

Joy Boy apologized because he couldn't kept the promise he made. It implies both are not the same because one was a debt Imu owed Davy, the other one is a promise Joyboy made to the Fishmen

[pure tusk]

Awesome thanks lmk your thoughts

[wild vector]

Bro I literally spelled out Davy and joyboy being different people. Idk why you think I implied they were the same.

Do you have any canon reasoning for believe the promises aren't connected? Everything after that was head cannon.

I don't know why people keep thinking the promise is from Davy to Imu. It clearly implies the promise is about the world.

The promise only relates to Imu in that he will no longer be ruleing the world.

[fringe hemlock]

The flaming horn would be not only a reference to the Hoju but also the “chestnuts roasting on an open fire.” This christmas song reference would fit well with others like JIngle BEll ROCKS or (Saint) Nika(les) or Whitebeard or the Tontottas (saved by Noland).

I’ve held a theory for a while that Hinokizu’s “flame mark” is a flaming Hoju, a wish granting pearl/jewel from eastern folklore and Buddhists imagery. The Hoju is often depicted in sets of 3, on fire, or with 3 flames around it, and is often on a creature’s head as a sign of enlightenment or wisdom. The Mont Blanc “chestnut” thing is shaped like the Hoju, which js often depicted as a horn on the head of the Bai Ze, a tiger (or lion) dragon hybrid with 2 faces and 3 eyes. My prediction has been that Rocks D Zebec was the previous Hinokizu, and that Shanks is the new Hinokizu, and that both characters have a Holy Knight alter ego, with Shanks’s being Shamrock. I predict that like Cavendish, they could share control with their alter ego to achieve their peak form, and that when they achieve that form they get double ringed eyes, like Gunko or Imu, get flaming hair, like Big Mom or Barbel or characters when they’re angry like Luffy whose hair turned into red fire or Quilingham’s mother monsters, and grow a single horn, also like to Domi Reversi. This is part of a long elaborate pattern of unicorn symbolism: the Blanc in Montblanc is Buranku in Japanese, which sounds like bronco, a kind of horse. Zebec Rocks sounds like zebra, which matches Rocks’s striped hair. His name also sounds like Bai Ze and the Bai Ze ofc has a hoju shaped horn. The komainu is another lion hybrid and is often depicted in pairs (symbolized by the split personalities), with one having a horn. The komainu that Oda depicted has flame (hi) hair (zu), and the koma in komainu could be tied to comas, since this would be a sleepwalking state. The Bai Ze is also depicted with crimson (hi) hair (zu). Shanks has crimson hair and drinks a lot of alcohol (ki) as his main trait. He also envied Blackbeard’s lack of sleep, which would make sense / be ironic if he himself couldn’t sleep. Shanks is in the Figarland family, and figs are shaped like the hoju. Also, Rocks’s hair is the color of Noland’s pants.

This could also reference several myths that reference chestnuts. For example, a story about a monkey tricking a cat into fetching chestnuts out of a fire, or a story about the oldest chestnut tree in the world which is so big it was said that a hundred horses could fit under it, which is reminiscent of the Treasure Tree Adam. The Adam tree’s name in Japanese is Hoju Adam (YEA) and the 3 layers evoke the three layers of the Hoju. This could explain stuff like the “lucky horse” Estrida brought to the castle, and ultimately the reveal of Rocks’s horn. I should also mention that Noland’s chest is crosshatched like a roatsed chestnut.

[fringe hemlock]

The Tibetan wind horse is another horse that ties to this, since its depicted with flaming Hoju’s on it’s back or head. I also believe that the cover of 1166 references the Shanks Hoju thing because the yams are Hoju shaped and Luffy and Zoro’s are depicted as too hot. Luffy is a monkey and Zoro is a tiger (like Rocks) which is a cat, so it could be a reference to the Cat Monkey story. The foxes and Racoon dogs could both be evoking Cerberus, especially with the 3 foxes dancing together. I also have theorized for a while that the secrets of the Shanks Hinokizu plot are inspired by Naruto and thus are hidden in Naruto references. Without getting too in detail, the basics of Naruto’s story is that he’s the son of a blond haired assassin politician and a red haired woman from the Uzumaki clan. Shanks is the son of a blond haired assassin politician and a Uzumaki (whirlpool) woman whose hair evokes the Red Line that the CD’s live on. With Hinokizu tying to whirlpools, crimson, and flames, the fact that the Leaf Village is symbolized by flames and a crimson whirlpool (Naruto’s name refers to the Naruto Strait whirlpools) could be a hint. During God Valley, Shanks had a gag scene where he basically did the substitution jutsu, being swapped for a log in Dragon’s arms. To bring this all the way back to 1166, Naruto has a fox spirit in him, and Gaara, a red haired son of an assassin politician, has a tanuki spirit in him. On the cover of 1166, we see foxes and tanukis, as well as Tama, ehose name means pearl. Again, the Hoju is a flaming pearl. Another flaming pearl is the one we met in Sanji’s arc, and Sanji also catches fire, so him being paired with Tama in this spread is incredibly interesting.

Its even more interesting since Tama’s power is to feed people pearl-like mochi (made of rice) to make them obey her commands, which is the basis of my theory that Imu feeds sake (made of rice) to characters like Gunko, Rocks, or Shanks to take over their minds, since in that theory the sake comes from the broken tip of Imu’s own Hoju horn, which would reference the old myths of unicorn horn medicinal properties.

Hinokizu’s head Hoju would also explain the hinoki and zu parts of the name, since a hinokinis a kind of tree and zu means head or hair. One myth Oda is probably drawing on here is that of Baron Munchausen shooting a cherry seed into a deer’s head, only to see a cherry tree grown out of it’s head later. The reason I’m confident in this as a source of inspo is because Oda referenced it with Chopper already, and Chopper’s goal is to create a medicine that heals all diseases.

The x on his hat is just like the x on Noland’s chest, it references the chestnut shape of the Hoju and marks it as a treasure

[gleaming crest]

isn't the promise Rocks mentions in the panel you linked just his promise of eventually coming back to Imu to dethrone him, when he infiltrated Mary Geoise?

[fringe hemlock]

The most crackpot of this theory to ME is the part where I think there’s a fruit called the Uzu-Uzu (spin spin) fruit that the WG passes down to whoever they charge with guarding their secrets from pirates, aka Hinokizu. This would mean that Rocks and Shanks have secret devil fruits, just like Corazon. Corazon’s fruit was perfect for his role as a spy, and he also tended to fall and roll (spin) downward or catch on fire. Ninjas are spies, so Hinokizu could basically be like the WG’s top spy. This would be why they would send Shanks to steal the 4th Road Poneglyph from Whitebeard, a task typically depicted as a stealth mission, and where his era of the myth originates from. He arrives as Hinokizu, scars Whitebeard, steals the Poneglyph, and at some point is unmasked/spotted. He would then claim to be Shanks’s twin brother Shamrock, who in reality died on God Valley. This would be why the entire cover of the chapter where the original Shamrock probably died is references to Naruto and to the Hoju, and why this is the chapter where Rocks is disappeared by the World Government. This is the moment where Garling took Rocks’s fruit to give to his son in the future, passing down the Hinokizu role. Both of the important characters who died in God Valley, Rocks and Shamrock, were replaced by Shanks in a sense. This would also be why Rocks has the same dynamic with Loki that Shanks has with Luffy and Corazon had with Law, and be why Corazon’s dynamic with Doflamingo (who also catches fire) seems to mirror Shanks and Shamrock.

[fringe hemlock]

this wasn’t meant to be the first message lol

TLDR: the reason We didn’t see horns on Domi Reversi Rocks is cuz his horn is a secret, a clue that Oda has been weaving throughout the story

[gleaming crest]

since when do you think shanks would've possessed this secret devil fruit? we've seen him swim

[fringe hemlock]

when have we seen him swim?

[turbid trail]

When he saved luffy…

[restive plume]

chapter 1

[gleaming crest]

i personally think shanks makes a point to have none of his crew use devil fruits, including himself.

[fringe hemlock]

did we see him swim? a part of my argument is that him having a df in that moment would explain why we didn’t see him swimming and only saw him failing to defend himself from what we now know is a weak attack by his standards

[turbid trail]

He jumped in the water to prevent luffy from drowning, got his arm bitten off, and told the sea king to get lost while in the water

[gleaming crest]

he would've sank to the bottom if he had a devil fruit power.

[fringe hemlock]

lets take this to manga serious the slow chat is bad for quick responses

[wild vector]

Given the context it doesn't seem like it.

[gleaming crest]

to me it's way more context than what you suggested about some ancient promise; he said he'll be back and then he said "i'm not davy jones, you got the wrong guy" and then continued basically like "but i'm here because promises are to be kept" -> remember when i said i'd be back

[wild vector]

He doesn't say but I'm here. You are adding that to inflate your point. He says promises are meant to be kept.

If it had some relation to coming back to the flower room in marijoa like you are suggesting then they would be there.

Rocks only came to god valley to protect his family. Not to attack imu

[gleaming crest]

yeah, and he was protecting his family by standing in imu's way. and he's taunting him by referring to the time he said he's going to be back. way less inflated than thinking rocks was making some lorebomb there

[wild vector]

He didn't say I promise I'm gonna keep the Davy clan alive.

[gleaming crest]

yeah, he was implying he's going to come back to kick Imu's ass. because he realized he couldnt do anything in mary geoise back then

[wild vector]

In the context the promise has to do with Davy jones.

This kinda thinking is like saying vander decken wanting Poseidon and dating back 800 years to the void century is just coincidence. He and the flying Dutchman have nothing to do with joy boy.

[chrome jacinth]

I have no, I'll check it out

[gleaming crest]

i dont get how this makes more sense to you than rocks referring to the previous conversation these two characters had. but i'll leave it here

[pure tusk]

Give this a watch and get back to me. I also have a panel In mind that could tie Into Marijoa and the Emerlad city https://youtu.be/KNAoKnNrvLo?si=NqwGA7vME7Hy_OCE

[wild vector]

Because his whole clan is tied into History that is trying to be erased

We have some kind of vague prophecy that has to do with the world being changed and racial equality.

That dream wasn't achieved when Imu won.

We have a promise of legend. A bloodline dating back to the void century. And someone who used to be known as king of the world who's existence has been erased.

And you think the chapter being titled promise has so relation to the legend we learned about 400 chapters earlier?

Consider who rogue nations are in the world of one piece. They are ones that don't ally with the world government.

Some have thier problems but not all of them are evil or misguided. Wano is a rogue nations. So is elbaph.

Rocks was probably allying countries that weren't bowing to the world government. And helping overthrow kings who's citizens didn't want them bowing to the world government.

Think of sorbet kingdom. The king was willing to forsake half its citizens so the other half could live in peace.

[pure raven]

There exists a vague prophecy in One Piece that speaks of the world being changed and racial equality finally being achieved. That dream, however, was not realized when Imu triumphed.

We also have the notion of a legendary promise — a bloodline stretching back to the Void Century, tied to someone who was once known as the "King of the World," whose very existence has been erased from history. Given this, it’s hard to dismiss the idea that a chapter titled Promise could be directly connected to the legend revealed hundreds of chapters earlier.

Now, consider the concept of "rogue nations" in the world of One Piece. These are countries that refuse to ally with the World Government. While some may have their flaws, not all are evil or misguided. Wano is one such rogue nation, and so is Elbaf.

Rocks D. Xebec may well have been forging alliances with nations unwilling to bow to the World Government, supporting uprisings against kings whose citizens resented submission to that authority. Take the Sorbet Kingdom as an example: its king was willing to sacrifice half of his people just so the other half could live in peace under the Government’s shadow.

Seen in this light, Xebec could be interpreted as a revolutionary figure — not one who sought honor or recognition, but someone who challenged the established order in his own way. His methods may have been brutal, but his actions fit the mold of rebellion against oppression rather than blind villainy.

[oak geode]

Then what the hell was Shanks doing with the Gomu Gomu fruit?

[turbid trail]

Trying to bring it to ace, probably, before luffy ate it

Or maybe he knows that devil fruits have a will of their own, and knew that if he kept it, at some point, joyboy would eat it

[oak geode]

Do you think Shanks and the crew were aware it’s a mythical Zoan fruit of Nika?

[turbid trail]

I do. The WG obtained it, and knew about it according to whos who in his fight against jimbei + the goroseis conversation. I find it hard to believe shanks would attack that WG ship on its way back to mariejois without a reason.

[chrome jacinth]

Well pieced theory could be true but personally I believe the emerald city is just mary geoise

[wary oyster]

Do you guys see rocks coming back? That’s why Blackbeard wanted moiras fruit, to put his shadow or someone else’s into rocks body like a Frankenstein type deal

[pure tusk]

thanks for it i might not have convinced you but atleast you found intresting. However i just cant see marijoa being the emerald city unless it was hidden beneath it because its supposed to be a legendary mythical city that directly parallels the golden city luster and mystery

[chrome jacinth]

He could've had the intention but I don't think it'll happen

[wary oyster]

We never see his dead body, he technically gets off screened, we only see him get stabbed, could the holy knights have taken his body and kept it in the holy land? Blackbeard uses dragon attacking the holy land to weasel his way in to get his fathers body

[chrome jacinth]

Can I dm you so I can show you why I believe it?

[pure tusk]

Yes that’s fine

[chrome jacinth]

Also some people believe that he didn't die at god valley

[calm shore]

Saw this on twitter

[chrome jacinth]

Ai getting crazy

[wild vector]

With the new chapter I started thinking about some things I never connected before.

The piece of jaya that was shot up into the sky had a magnetic signature. All islands on the grand line have one.

I never really considered why fishman island had one. Really never gave it a second thought at all.

But now we know something happened a 1000 years ago that was cataclysmic. We can be sure fishman island dates back at least 800 years since bander decken the first came there in search of the mermaid princess.

If fishman island has a magnetic signature then it must have existed on the surface at one point.

I also don't think we ever really get an explanation for why it has clouds and a sky.

Fishman island also has a lot of solid stuff. Steal doors in the palace. Decorative dragon that doesn't look like anything made from shells or other sea stuff. Lots of stone pillars etc.

With the latest chapter and god valley we see it sink into the sea at the end.

So what if fishman island was a piece of the ancient kingdom that sunk into the sea 1000 years ago minimum.

I know there's a lot of goofy manga logic that can explain the stone and metal in the castle, but not much explains why it has a magnetic signature.

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[golden epoch]

Guys, what if Garp is taken to emptee bluffs island to cross guild so that Blackbeard can maybe cash him in and earn 3 billion berries. Then, knowing that Garp is a legend, cross guild/buggy will use this as an opportunity to show off their power and pit on a live execution of him. Luffy's crew somehow learns of this and they go to to emptee bluffs island to save Garp, and that's how Mihawk Vs Zoro happens, post Elbaph maybe. Blackbeard hinted at selling ope ope no mi or using it (where Law was defeated), trying to decide what to do. This may suggest that Blackbeard might be interested in a lot of cash and so could turn Garp in to get 3 billion.

[golden epoch]

But then BB would've likely already killed Moria and taken his fruit, instead of imprisoning him

[broken seal]

Garp is worth far more as a bargaining chip to Teech than his crossguild bounty

[keen trellis]

Whitebeard used his fruit to collapse GV, to help escape Rocks, and this is probably how Whitebeard got his scar from one of Shanks’ relatives. Plus i feel these panels are worth noting due to Whitebeard’s hesitancy on joining Polo, i feel it would be out of character for him to just leave Rocks.

Garling probably assumed Rocks was a goner anyways and took Rocks’ sword and gave it to Imu. Garling bluffing about killing Rocks makes sense i think

[radiant timber]

That being aside why does polo looks awfully similar to marco

[slender fulcrum]

well at one point you said :

When Davy joyboy fell then the minks went on the move.

So excuse me If I thought on that moment that for you both were the same being ^^

As for the promise, as I said,

On one hand you have Joyboy saying he couldn't honor his promise to the fishmen , so its between Joyboy and the Fishmen
On another hand you have Xebec telling Imu that he has to keep his promise. Its between Imu and Xebec.

We can guess it's not the same promises, but nothing indicates they are 100% the same promise as far as we know. We lack context and evidences.

Imu was not ruling the world back then since Imu Nerona allied with 20 Kingdoms to fight the AK, and they swear that nobody should be ruling the world anymore. Which, I guess, was aimed to not have a Davy Jones at King of the World, since we know he was the one back then

We have to stop believing that the AK was benevolent
The 20 kings probably allied because the AK was lead by a sc#mbag
But the 20 kings were also overthrown in the shadow by a new sc#mbag

That's probably why Joy Boy left the AK and became a Pirate, if he looked up for freedom, its because he didn't have it in the AK

[keen trellis]

this could be why (i didn’t mean to send the other message😭) @radiant timber

[slender fulcrum]

That's a theory many people and I had the moment this character shown up. Usually the father and son are not that look alike in Oda's world so the fact that he is an old looking Marco is.. peculiar

[keen trellis]

also the reason why i think we don’t see this is because this is Harald and Loki’s flashback and they both believed Rocks was killed there. I think we’ll find out the truth about Rocks during Blackbeard’s backstory which will prob happen two years the earliest sadly since it’s most likely gonna be elbaf centered for now

[radiant timber]

Yea sure buddy

[golden epoch]

But why should that be revealed from Blackbeard's backstory if bb and xebec's wife was teleported away before those events happened. They wouldn't know what happened so not even bb's mom could pass down that info.

And we see a panel thats like with blood splashing, indicating that Rocks indeed got killed

[hallow bear]

That and I heavily doubt garling would miss that finishing stab

[keen trellis]

because whitebeard isn’t an idiot and knew Teach was Rocks’ kid, could’ve told him what happened to his father. Also we do see blood splashing but thing is that we don’t see the kill, Oda doesn’t shy away from stuff like that. Could he have gotten stabbed? for sure since that’s what Rayleigh and Gaban saw, but just like an ill whitebeard in marineford, it could take more than just a stab to kill him and knowing Rocks was even stronger than Whitebeard there’s that slim chance. It also just contradicts alot of Whitebeard’s character to just leave Rocks, due to his morals and also we still don’t know why Whitebeard’s scar hurts when looking at Shanks

If this were due to possibly Shamrock’s scarring Whitebeard, what would be the point of that? There’s no particular reason for a moment like that to be needed in the story since Whitebeard doesn’t go out his way to interfere with the WG unless it’s for someone he cares for

also interesting that we don’t see Garling and his crew after killing Rocks but we see the rest of the characters leave God Valley

[golden epoch]

Oh right, forgot about Whiteboard. Makes sense why this could be where he might've gotten the scar

[keen trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-hiriluk-a-man-dies-when-hes-forgotten-chopper-one-piece-gif-5679117055541346607

[golden epoch]

Whitebeard died fr, rip 😭

[wild vector]

There's far more supporting the idea that the promise is the same then it isn't.

Lol there's nothing at all suggesting the ancient kingdom was evil. That's all head cannon.

[azure kraken]

A Baku is a mythical tapir-like Japanese yokai that eats dreams
Dreams are an incredibly important theme in one piece
“Baku” is the onomatopoeia for chewing in Japanese, and it is also the name of Wapol’s devil fruit.
Wapol will awaken his “Paramecia” fruit to a mythical Zoan, and will be the key to defeating Imu- he will possess the ability to consume concepts such as dreams and pain, much like Kuma. Wapol will also be able to alter dreams like he does with his current abilities.
Wapol is the GOAT 🙏🙏🙏 become a Wapol glazer today 🙏🙏🙏

[fringe hemlock]

u should really look into the Bai Ze and Bakunawa

[sour stirrup]

My theory is roger and dragon see related

I have no proof but I believe it

[spare void]

my theory is Rock's sword ate a devil fruit that turned it from a ship into a sword, and some of it's destructive power comes from having the mass of a ship, and that Blackbeard found it and is currently using it as his ship

[sour stirrup]

I have another theory that is probably true

When whitebeard was about to die he said "someone will arise carrying generations upon generations on his back" and luffy when his strawhat isn't on his head it's on his back And it's confirmed the one piece will reveal history of one piece And a ufo will let the crew travel free around the crew in the final arc And the strawhat goes from joy boy to Roger to shanks to luffy

[worn vine]

😭

[gritty trench]

The eos fight will take place in a island like god valley where the celestial dragons are hunting people and luffy black beard koby and the rest of the major pirates and marines will pull up to save the slaves and imu will once again come to end black beard or luffy but with the ancient weapons Poseidon and pluto they will defeat imu

[pure tusk]

Wassup twin✌️

[fringe hemlock]

yooo wsup broski, your man Shamrock was NOT seen leaving GV alive

[remote silo]

You reminded me of how much I love the storytelling Oda’s done with BB’s boat.

It’s a raft they’ve been slowly building upon since the crew started. Similar to how Blackbeard went from clean shaven to stubble faced when we first see him at Jaya after he’s made the heel turn.

How do you reconcile Rocks having had a proper galleon while BB has been cobbling together his ship with loosely tied logs his entire journey?

[snow pilot]

The bucaneers are a mix of fishman (black people) and giants (white people) thats why they are all lightskins. Even whitebeard with his durag. Thats why they are so looked down upon because they are race mixing

[pure tusk]

Lmaooooo we know he’s alive because he’s in the future already

[fringe hemlock]

we see a character that claims to be him but you know what actual evidence would be and that isn’t it

[turbid trail]

So you think shanks can swim and that shamrock is actually dead?

[fringe hemlock]

i actually DONT think Shanks can swim but yea Shammywammy is deceased

[pure tusk]

that is evidence shamrock never claims to be shamrock we are told by the narrator instead and we were also shown twins the chances of shamrock and shanks being the same person is 0.01%

[fringe hemlock]

the narrator claimed that the baby was Shamrock, but didn’t claim that the one in the current day is the same one or even that he’s Shanks’s twin

[pure tusk]

Yea but we were shown 2 brothers lol

[fringe hemlock]

as babies

[pure tusk]

Than as adults

[fringe hemlock]

we haven’t seen both simultaneously as adults which leaves room for the OG Shamrock to be dead rn

[slender fulcrum]

I never said it was evil. I said the AK is probably not " white " but more " grey " , everything should be a shades of grey. Even Rayleigh said it.

There's far more supporting the idea that the promise is the same then it isn't.

and no. as I said we have two sentences from Xebec , one sentence from the poneglyph, those are " weak " evidences.

We can't know for certain , so its bold to assume its either one or the other with straight face.

[quiet vigil]

Rocks is a D and its the first one in the manga series that died without a smile and his execution wasn’t clearly shown could it be that he is still alive and RN now brainwashed and turned to one of IMU Knights or something similar of some sort or does the Davy clan members are different from the rest of the wielders of D in their name?

[pure tusk]

We have seen them simultaneously as adults just not in the same room together lol which is such a leap really considering they also look differently

[fringe hemlock]

when

their different looks can be explained very easily by Holy Knight shit

[pure tusk]

Not really they both showed up to elbaf and also we were told shanks has only been too the holy land once as well so

[hasty bison]

Buggy can be him like oda cooks

[keen trellis]

he does smile if you look closer

[wild vector]

You said ruled by a scumbag. Given that they are protrayed as the world government enemy and many of the countries Luffy is allowed with wasn't allowed with WG. Then more likely they are benevolent then morally grey like you assume.

Bro you are wrong. "You are wrong. I've never met him. However promises are meant to be kept"

The promise clearly relates to Davy Jones or why else would he say "however". The however implies a contradiction.

In other page he says "I will be back... Right here"

Why would the chapter after be titled promise of this was it? Rocks didn't promise anything. He just said he would come back. And in the context he wasn't even making it back to Lily room.

So if you think that's the promise then it wasn't even fulfilled to begin with.

My man, basic reading comprehension here.

[keen trellis]

but i will say i dont believe my boy died there

[quiet vigil]

I guess so after you pointed it out but still its not clear enough

[uneven tide]

if rocks knew how blackbeard is rn he would've probably let him getting killed right there

[quiet vigil]

I think he might still be alive he still wanted to live ( maybe inside of teach, maybe a hidden holy knight of some sort ) but that not a clear smile for me

[wild vector]

Don't you think it was intentional then on odas part?

Showing us a character that's a D and having his smile not be obvious. It gets the fan base to discuss its importance.

[quiet vigil]

He doed things like that xd a lot

[keen trellis]

im still grasping for the Rocks is Hiriluk theory

[wild vector]

Lol they don't even look remotely alike or share any similar characteristics. I'd be willing to try to consider it but this just seems like a massive head cannon stretch

[quiet vigil]

Lol i just releazed the resemblance

[keen trellis]

it is definitely head cannon stretch atp, but i like the idea of someone minor as Hiriluk turned out to be one of the most important characters in the series but we just didn’t know

[fringe hemlock]

if that counts as us seeing them simultaneously you have a categorically weak standard of proof. literally everyone was saying that Shanks left right before Shamrock showed up. also your cited source is the guy im accusing of lying

[wild vector]

That's what I like about the bluejam=burn scar theories. It's legs are very thin but it's got legs none the less.

[keen trellis]

the only evidence rn is the “a man dies when he’s forgotten” which is a huge part of Rocks’ character, Hiriluk finding the cherry blossoms in the west blue (where god valley was), and he also found the cherry blossoms exactly a year after god valley

[slender fulcrum]

I'm telling you that both side of the conflict are not good and bad , they all have their share. it's exactly like the pirates, some are good, other aren't. The WG is not completely evil , but their higher up is, is that so difficult to understand to you ?

And no, nothing still link the promise Joy boy made to the fishmen to the one Xebec spoke to Imu.

[wild vector]

You are misunderstanding. I completely understand you. I don't agree with you. You are using that rationale to say form the conclusion that the ancient kingdom was not benevolent

There's nothing to support that. Just like your assumption the promise rocks was talking about returning marijoa when they weren't even there again.

The connection is ideals. If Davy was king of the world then he would of had influence over how other kingdoms operate.

If he had that kinda influence he could create a safe world for the fishman.

That's where the promise connects. It's not just about the fishman. It's about a world of peace and understanding.

[pure tusk]

That’s not really a weak standard of proof. what you have is no evidence really except head cannon really. You can’t just declare somone is lying just because you think it you need reasoning and evidence same thing with shanks and shamrock who we have a mountain of evidence that they are separate people. Your entire idea based on slim possibility that somehow they are the same person despite oda going out of his way to specifically tell us and show us that they are not. Your whole argument is predicated upon the fact that they have not seen in the same room together which they have been as babies. That further reduces your argument and the chances of it being proven to the slimiest of possibilities while also saying everyone is lying as well which doesn’t make sense. all the evidence is on my side for this argument really you are relying on Hail Mary for this one my guy. But I’m really done arguing about this we have gone in circles about this before and until you see them clash in a room together you won’t concede

[slender fulcrum]

once again you're just headcannoning stuff that have no confirmed link atm and have no connection as of yet.

One is a promise between Davy and Imu, the other one between Joy Boy and the Fishmen. you can be right, you can be wrong, we don't know yet. but nothing indicates for now that both are the same.

I'm not saying the Ancient Kingdom was not benevolent, but ruled by Davy who was probably not that good.

If the AK was technologically advanced, it could have been arrogant for example, and seen as evil by other , while it was good for its denizens.

And I don't really understand how technology advanced Kingdom couldn't help the fishmen before hand and relied on Imu for that somehow.

[wild vector]

There's no reasoning with this guy. If you read his theories and how he replies they are just crazy. Like shanks has had a devil fruit and an arm the whole series kinda crazy.

[pure tusk]

He’s one of my buddies we have a bet but it’s alright let’s move on I don’t want things to be negative around here when disagreement happens

[fringe hemlock]

what im saying is that if i say “i think this guy is lying” you cant argue back with “but he said he isn’t”

[fringe hemlock]

and if i say “this guy is pretending to be his own twin” you cant argue back with “but here’s him with his twin 38 years ago”

[pure tusk]

Yea but you need to have reason why he’s lying especially when it’s from reliable sources like what your stating is headcanon

[wild vector]

You keep just saying they are separate promises.

What rocks told Imu in the Lily room was not a promise. Basic reading comprehension leads you to the conclusion they are referring to the same thing.

What did I write that was head cannon? The whole point of otohimes dream was peace.

[fringe hemlock]

your reliable source is a guy who just showed up and my reason to question him is his hesitation when asked, Gunko’s caginess, and the fact that Oda keeps building suspense around a supposedly closed case

[pure tusk]

It’s not necessarily an argument your going against just stated facts in the story which is a extremely hard sell especially when you do not have any evidence to back up the claims expect the idea of a possibility.

[slender fulcrum]

I'm not epiloging on that. The only link between those stuff are the word " promise " and we can't say it's the same promise they're talking about. We have two different context, four different protagonist here. So we don't know. We can make guess, but we can't be sure for certain. I'm just not following you theory for now because I don't see similarity beside both use the word " promises "

[fringe hemlock]

if you need someone in universe to call out a liar for you to even consider the possibility ur locking yourself out of a chunk of the theorization process. pretending you have more evidence to back up what you’re saying doesn’t benefit you, which is why I’m not pretending to be able to close this case. my point is that its weird for it to still be an open case if Oda is supposedly giving it away.

[keen trellis]

I’m very indecisive on Davy being an actual king or not. As of rn i think he was next for the throne in the ancient kingdom, but he never got it due to Imu taking over

[fringe hemlock]

the reason he would lie is because it would ruin both Shamrock and Shanks’s reputation. its super simple

not tryna be condescending but what im saying doesn’t feel like i have to reach for it at all

[pure tusk]

Im not pretending have actual hard evidence im talking about actual panel not headcannon in which I believe someone is a liar

[fringe hemlock]

you saying that we’ve seen both simultaneously in the current day is pretending to have hard evidence. so is bringing up the flashback where we don’t even see Shamrock safely escaping the island

[wild vector]

"people don't spend their lives trying to look at what's behind the curtain. They like the curtain. It provides them stability comfort and definition"

So your whole reason for being dismissive is you can't fathom the connection? Yet you keep insisting the promise was from rocks to Imu. Despite it clearly being in connection to Davy. And Davy has some connection to joyboy.

[pure tusk]

What because we literally have been told by the author they are two different characters and then shown so in the past lol

[fringe hemlock]

first we were told by the character himself and then we were shown twins 38 years ago.

you can think whatever you want about it but the moment you stop calling it as it is, and mixing observation with analysis, you lose control over your own theory and become a slave to your bias. it makes you unable to predict any twist.

[uneven tide]

this post already figured out the end of op and still no one knows bout this
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/pqa53e/the_mysterious_cities_of_gold_an_inspiration_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[pure tusk]

It’s not what I think it’s what’s in the story what your proposing go against the specific narrative laid out by Oda. Also I’m not bias either when this idea that they were the same person came about I initially thought it had some really good merit even though I disagreed with it and thought it had good chance at coming true until we were revealed that they were separate people which continued to mount with evidence. I can predict twists just not things that would break the storytelling oda set forth for us

[fringe hemlock]

how would what i’m saying “break the storytelling”

[pure tusk]

its fine man lets move on we arent getting anywhere we have a bet on this for an exact reason so lets wait and see until they clash or meet together

[misty citrus]

Theory: The "demons" that Imu turns people into were originally a race that existed in the OP world and eventually became known as the Ancient Giants. Imu formed a contract that allowed him to harness their abilities and grant them to others. They were native to the land of Elbaph, or "El Baphomet". This demonic ancestry is why Loki has those strange eyes. They originally reigned over Elbaph, and the rest of the New World for centuries using violence and war until Joy Boy convinced them to be on his side. It's also possible they were enemies with the angelic Lunarians, as it was mentioned that Elbaph's greatest weakness is fire.

[clever comet]

Rocks died with a missing teeth, just like Blackbeard, his son, is always drawn missing multiple

Is that just a coincidence or???

[wild vector]

Theory:

Double page is hinting at Yamato joining the fleet as the 15th captain. Her crew will be the Oden pirates.

8-Bonney(bonney pirates)
9-Law(heart pirates)
10-boa Hancock(kuja pirates)
11-carrot(nox pirates)
12-XX(sun pirates)
13-capone bege(fire tank pirates)
14-one of the other worst generation. Maybe Hawkins.

[raw scarab]

Consider this. There really are no such things as demons, its really nightmare fuel. Certain people or creatures that get associated with Demons. What if there was a race/being of ancient times, but it wasnt demons, it was dragon(s). Perhaps a dragon that could take a human form and be a dragon king. Long standing theory of mine, but perhaps Imu and his ilk are those that spin draconic as demonic. It is why Imu calls themselves celestial dragons. Imu took the ancient dragon's power/form. But perhaps in slightly twisted way.

[slender fulcrum]

I think we can't understand each others and we're picking isolated word to sum up the entire thought of the other one - and you add some pitful comment on your side - so I'll call it a day 🙂. Not interested in nitpicking stuff and spiteful remarks when debating 🙂

[wild vector]

I understand what you are saying. You keep insisting that the promise is in reference to rocks and refuse to consider you may be wrong .

You said I'm adding head cannon about the promise. Yet in elbaph it talks about races uniting.

If you want to believe the promise has nothing to do with the world society then be my guest. But your statement that the promise is about rocks is just wrong. The text itself proves the promise has to do with Davy.

[solar isle]

Crazy

[raw laurel]

I can see that but I would argue momo would be the captain

[raw laurel]

@slender fulcrum assuming he was a good king

[wild vector]

Eh momo doesn't have the power level to captain in my opinion.

[raw laurel]

Yeah but he’s the boss and the whole point is he’s training to get stronger

[wild vector]

Doesn't matter. That's like saying Oden should have been his own captain.

The reason she would be captain is because she wants to mimic Oden and go out to sea.

[raw laurel]

Not really. Oden by all means was a wb pirate.

If wano was going to leave as a faction in the grandfleet momo makes the most sense

[wild vector]

I would be willing to give your though more credit but the cover story was about Yamato not momo. Yamato gained 2 followers, not momo.

That was basically her fleet captain cover story.

Who else got a cover story? Capone.

[latent zodiac]

I dont know if anyone has put this up here but heres what we know about Mosa.

A Noble who got involved in a terrible situation where they couldnt fight back

A Shy Naive, Hopeful, soft spoken kind sort of person

Knowing we saw her get assaulted and almost captured at the Reverie im inclined to believe Mosa is Shirahoshi.

Also cause i think the pair already has a fun dynamic.

Somehow Shirahoshi might have made friends with the most feared living giant

"If i was there in your stead, i would have slaughtered them all"

Knowing what we know now about harald who did in fact attack the holy land

Think of it like a "distant pen pal" kinda deal

[wild vector]

Very small theory here.

I don't think the strawhat flag missing from the waterfall was a mistake.

I believe it's possible minatomo will build Yamato a ship as a thank you. This could be where the flag is now.

Yamato and co don't have Luffys vivre card. But they could be updated with everything that happened in egghead.

[latent zodiac]

I still think Yamato taking the flag doesnt seem right when luffy specifically gave it to Momo for him to hang in the capital but i can definitely see Yamato leaving Wano like how Ace left Goa

[raw laurel]

Yeah because it was about Yamato going around delivering the sword,
Momo is the shogun of wano so if anyone was going to be the leader it would be the actual leader

[raw laurel]

And ? Yamato can’t leave wano unprotected and does Yamato even know how to sail a ship in the grandline ?

[slender fulcrum]

Pirates under the SHGF don't use the Mugiwara flag, no ? they are using their own flag

[slender fulcrum]

I meant Davy instead of Rocks, my bad. Davy's promise to Imu / Imu's to Davy is not the same than Joyboy to the fishmen, that was my message. Could you just have said " you meant Davy , no ? " instead of trying to patronising me 😅

My opinion is that Davy was a bad ruler, evil or not, but bad, that was probably led by hubris and arrogance because of the advancement of the HK, that led to many being thrown off by his behavior, including joyboy who left the AK to become a pirate.

Joy boy tried to free and unite people and somehow it probably started a war between the two kingdoms.

Joy boy wanted the fishman to live on the surface, but it never happened.
Joy boy left the Ancient Weapon to the world, not as weapon, but as tools to remake the world after the war, one day, and repair it.

Imu maybe approached Davy at first to get some power out of it and to leech some influence from the AK, maybe get a specific devil's fruit, and Davy asked him something in return, but Imu never kept its side of the bargain and used his power against the AK

[raw laurel]

Made sense to me

[raw laurel]

My theory is joyboy was a Davy but not jones,

I believe they were brothers and Imu might have been a 3rd brother

[wild vector]

No you didn't. You said multiple times the promise was for rocks to return because he said he would in the Lily room.

[raw laurel]

It was

[slender fulcrum]

ok dude now you're knowing more than me what I was trying to tell. I'm fed up and put you on ignore

[wild vector]

"so it was thee Davy jones"

"You've got the wrong guy, I've never met him...however promises are meant to be kept"

From the context of the conversation the promise has to do with Davy. That's basic reading comprehension. Above you said no he's talking about what he said in the Lily room about coming back.

You said your opinion multiple times.

[raw laurel]

Damn your corny

[wild vector]

I'm sorry that you agree with his interpretation.

[abstract nymph]

I Have a theory that the last poeglyph isnt a stone but a living person.

[abstract nymph]

The last Road Poneglyph might not be a stone at all. It could be a living person who had the final clue to Laugh Tale carved into their body long ago. i mean, Oda already shows that history can exist in living creatures, like Zunesha. If the Ancient Kingdom had very advanced technology, they could have placed Poneglyph writing into a person instead of a rock.
  This also explains why the fourth Road Poneglyph has been missing for so many years. A giant stone would be found easily, but a person can move, hide, or be hidden. Oda also enjoys turning important pieces of lore into characters, such as how Poseidon is actually Shirahoshi. So a living Poneglyph fits his style.
This person could be very old, a giant, a Lunarian, or someone who survived through time in another way. They might not even know that the marks on their body are Poneglyph text until Robin reads them.
The moment Robin realizes the truth and says, “This person is a Road Poneglyph,” would be a huge twist and a great way for Oda to finally explain the missing red stone while introducing an important new character.

[alpine sphinx]

dont we see the fourth road poneglyph from oden/rogers pov at fishman island? (but it has since been moved)

[abstract nymph]

You’re right that the fourth Road Poneglyph was on Fishman Island during Oden and Roger’s time, but it was moved sometime afterward. Since no one knows where it went or how something that huge vanished, it still leaves room for theories like a living poneglyph

[alpine sphinx]

but the 4th road poneglyph does exist somewhere, so a living road poneglyph would either be a copy of it or it wouldve had to somehow transform into a person

[abstract nymph]

idk but i feel like oda would so smth like that

[abstract nymph]

im saying the possibily of it being a "fake" copy and the acutal thing is a person. I mean We’ve already seen that One Piece has living weapons and living history, so a transformation isn’t impossible in this world. It’s just one way to explain how something so massive disappeared without a trace.

[alpine sphinx]

and the roger/oden flashback was a fakeout?

also we know poneglyphs can be moved around, linlin has a few of them including one given by jinbe

[violet acorn]

yo i remember the theory that zoro is the logpost to laughtale

[shadow fox]

I wonder if some time after god valley dragon may have gotten together with eris (blackbeards mom) not too sure on the timeline but it would have interesting parallels with both kids not knowing their father and living with an adopted family (white beard pirates and ace and sabo) and how similar yet different they are (the interaction at mock town) could also be why the Nika fruit chose luffy. Although I may be reaching a crazy amount

[ornate prairie]

I have a feeling that the devil fruit Harold has been keeping is the Giant Gaint Fruit: Model Nika

Assuming every race in one piece could have their own interpretations of what Nika is supposed to be it wouldn’t be out of the question to have different races have different zoans relating to them,

[alpine sphinx]

yeah i like this concept, i had a similar idea, especially since luffys nika is obviously the liberator version, and loki believes in the world-ending version

rocks not seeming to know who nika is does make this seem kinda weird tho

[ornate prairie]

Perhaps the Davy clan wasnt one that was religiously minded like the giants or buccaneers

He knows joy boy but he didn’t really seem to care much/doesn’t have Knowledge of gods like Nika

[quasi needle]

yk sun god i think its just a tittle and it being a god or a king doesnt make any differnece and he prolly did care just didnt follow it

[ornate prairie]

That might be true. But devil fruits are tge manifestation of people’s dreams

Dreams to become a jacket person, or a string person or a giraffe, or Sand.

Two different cultures who were taught that Nika was two different things a god of freedom and a god of destruction, someone from each culture could both dream so hard to create their own versions of Nika. Maybe even the fishman have their own version of Nika or the sky people do

Making different race equivalents of the same devilfruit

The human human fruit: model Nika
And the Giant Giant Fruit: model Nika
FishmenFishmen Fruit: Model Nika

Maybe Nika didn’t see himself as a god at all but others did and others dream and manifest their ideas into sometimg tangible

[raw scarab]

hey I had the same thought and even posted this today! 100% with you this is a possibility. One key thing is Elbaf has a Nika legend, and then humanity seems to have one that is only lore spread by slaves/buccaneers. So it could be basically two variations of a religion with an interpretation of what the 'savior' is. Like Giants are old testament and Buccaneers/Slaves New testament.

[west shoal]

I think Oro Jackson is at Elbaf, considering Gaban was their navigator and at the end of Elbaf arc, franky might fuse it with Sunny and upgrade Sunny using Oro Jackson and the Adam tree wood on Elbaf and make a Giant Sunny to accommodate Loki on board

[dawn sun]

I think Shamrock is actually shanks and shanks is actually shamrock , Shanks ( Shamrock) stopped kaido getting to marineford to help whitebeard, Imu might of swapped them and is mind controlling shanks to be shamrock whilst shamrock is acting the role as shanks to be a spy , This theory is probably dumb as hell tho 😭

[solid jasper]

Idk abt the mind controlling part, but shamrock being the one that stopped kaido actually makes sense.

[dawn sun]

thx 🙂

[prisma wind]

ohh woww that's such a cool theory!!

[granite surge]

If Blackbeard and shanks are truly tied by fate

BB wants the yami for himself

Shanks wants the nika for someone else (both similar looking fruits)

Shanks on rogers crew

Blackbeard on whitebeards crew (rivals)

Blackbeard being a “commoner”

Shanks being a celestial

Blackbeards father being rocks

Shanks father being garling

Blackbeard being a davy

Shanks must be related to joyboy in some way

[broken seal]

Shanks inherited Joyboy’s will

[little kelp]

he’s so close to your theory @fringe hemlock

[soft urchin]

so i found these VERY similar scenes in Brook's backstory and The Yellow Submarine. Does anyone know any other references/connections to the Beatles?
https://youtube.com/shorts/0G_slGIXokA?feature=share

[broken seal]

That’s such an obvious music related joke that I don’t even know if we can safely call it a reference. It probably is though, Oda is aware of yellow submarine

[raw laurel]

who is the no where man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z6Jgo_wH3A

[raw laurel]

Law has a yellow submarine

[soft urchin]

Davy Jones is a blue meanie which is why Xebec (and Buggy) have blue hair

[granite surge]

Indeed, joyboy might have red hair

[stray heron]

Nefertari D. Lily's Devil Fruit is Buggy's Devil Fruit now, as she previously split the poneglyphs around. Buggy's DF potential, which allows him to move the poneglyphs in Fishman Island, and create whirlpools, may be related to the separation of ocean currents, meaning that this DF even surpasses the control and curse of the seawater, which is an absurdity on par with the Nika fruit and Imu's fruit, one of the four gods in legend. On the ancient painting in Elbaph 900 years ago, if Nika is Joy Boy (even Joy Boy could be Davy D Jones because Vegapunk said Joy Boy was the first pirate), the Demon holding the sun is Imu, there are also 2 huge entities, the Dragon and the Snake, confronting each other, which could be the 2 gods DFs Ryu and Hebi, it can be said that the 3rd world is the future, the 2nd world is the present (900 years ago), the fire snake in the 1st world is the embodiment of the earth god;

The sea god in the second world is also a user of DF and not the ancient weapon Posedon or Uranus (Uranus sank the real world but it is in the sky and Posedon the mermaid princess is a god too), the second world says "humans destroy the sun and become gods" meaning 19 countries allied against Joy Boy, "the sea god makes a storm" could imply that the sea god is the cause of the war, with Lily joining the alliance, being the 20th country, it is very likely that Lily is the sea god, meaning Buggy's devil fruit is also the sea god, if the Earth god is a snake, then the Sea god is a dragon, dragons in Eastern culture can control seawater, create weather, don't mistake that Dragon can do this, all Dragon does is create wind, like in Goa when Dragon appeared there was no rain so the first time Luffy set sail, Buggy was waiting in the East Sea to welcome him, the first challenge was the whirlpool, next Buggy was waiting in Logue Town, the people saw that he was a pirate so they were scared, ran away, Buggy's crew intentionally lost, the last challenge before entering the Grand Line, Buggy executed Luffy, when he saw Luffy had a smile like Roger, Buggy struck himself with lightning, in the historic Ed War that year, only Roger's crew knew that Buggy had awakened DF. 22 years Buggy was missing must have had some connection with the underworld, met Shanks, Dragon, took away the pink tablet, his scar could be on his back or chest, now he wears a shirt and covers it up

[neon hazel]

bro imagine the chaos if the Government actually kept Luffy’s fruit and gave it to some random weak dude 💀 like all that god power just to stretch once and pass out

[stray heron]

bruh, they can't, Shanks snitched the fruit

[neon hazel]

ik i mean if...

[languid fractal]

It does sprout many questions. Like what about the scar, what about the arm. At certain point, the swapping would be impossible. Also Shank wouldn't have been domi-reversi or controlled by Imu before the OP story, as he lost his arm to a sea monster.

[dawn sun]

Thanks!!

[dawn sun]

ye for the arm part i still trying to piece together but i still think my theory is onto something

also i got another theory that imu is joy boy lol

[languid fractal]

There's no way imu is joy boy because he recognized joy boy haki.

[lyric heart]

what if imu is joyboys sister , sibling wars

[languid fractal]

I mean perhaps imu could be some sort of traitor, but ultimately he should just be part of the twenty. He even talked about how Lili betrayed him, which means they kinda knew each other (as twenty kingdom kings knew one another) and he didn't like her action at all.

[lyric heart]

maybe lili was a sibling too and decided to side with joyboy instead of her sister imu

[dawn sun]

Mmmmmmm

[edgy bolt]

Mmmmmmm

[languid fractal]

I mean reacted to joyboy haki suddenly. There's no reason to be shocked if you're the one who put the robe haki into emett

[granite surge]

Probably a brother

[earnest glen]

Harald = man marked by flames theory

14 years ago, Harald was Domi Reversi-ed. Loki lost consciousness. Shanks came to the scene and "burned" Harald's HK mark to save him (maybe cutting off his limb too in the process). Shanks, Harald, Jorul and Gaban then conspired to fake Harald's death. Shanks went after the Fruit robber, Harald went to FMI and secure the last poneglyph and became "man marked by flames". Loki could've thought he accidentally killed his father in a rampage, or that the royal guards successfully killed his father

[pliant elbow]

crocodile is luffy mom

[velvet tangle]

loki killed harald