manga-theories

[golden crown]

i was thinking something like katakuris spear
but he just makes it like he made the glasses or the bat
not something that he has to use
something that he can use when he wants like the spear and sword of the sungod that we see in the pictures of him

[cunning iron]

Yes Luffy doesn't train that's true, he relies too much on his DF. Personally, I think Luffy won't have to fight Blackbeard but that's just my personal opinion.

[pure raven]

Give robin and franky armament and ussop observation + armament

[cunning iron]

Ah yes the spear, good idea. Again I don't think Luffy needs it that much, and he'd have to train with that anyway and at this point of the story, I don't see him starting to use a weapon he's never really used before

[pure raven]

I think it would be safe to say Luffy would fight Blackbeard considering captains usually fight each other but perhaps this is a reach on my part

[golden crown]

maybe BBs power just straight up don't work on luffy
we still don't know much about luffys devil fruit tbh
next arc with saul is going to be a big reveal

[pure raven]

We have seen blackbeards power work on Luffy previously so this is not the case

[golden crown]

i mean we know that he really like imitating others tactics
maybe he sees someone use some weapon and like it and tries to do it himself

[cunning iron]

So far we haven't seen anyone able to counter Blackbeard's power right...that's why I don't like this character

[golden crown]

he has nothing on someone like shanks lol

[pure raven]

He is the best character and we seen law put up some what of a fight against Blackbeard but then again it can be argued that Blackbeard wasn’t really trying considering he only used white beards fruit so far

[golden crown]

they're going to end up like rocks or something
like coby and luffy are going to take them down
just how roger and garp took rocks down
because garp is dead now coby hates black beard
same for luffy he won't forget who turned in his brother and killed his grandpa

[pure raven]

No Koby doesn’t seem like the type of person who could hate anyone but himself this may be an overreach of history repeating itself

[golden crown]

nah coby won't forgive BB for this
i know hes gonna go bucknudy

and btw im sure BB isn't that bright to make the plans hes been pulling off
someone is helping this man
and that someone know ALOT

[pure raven]

No it is definitely a reach it isn’t even confirmed that garp is dead and how would Blackbeard even kill garp if he isn’t there on the island with garp

[golden crown]

BB prisoned coby and thats why garp went to to island in the first place
coby will first blame him self
and after thay black beard

and garp should be dead
he said coby is the feature of marines and just stayed on the island
if he doesn't die itll be something like the eagle guy in the alabasta arc lol

[pure raven]

Aokiji wouldn’t want garp killed he is mostly imprisoned somewhere on the island similar to how Koby was imprisoned

[golden crown]

i mean he has a hole inside him now and almost completely frozen so yea idk lol
i feel like he should die for the story to go well

[pure raven]

No that will ruin the story if he dies not every old person should die in one piece

[golden crown]

idk
i just feel like as the story goes farther more people are going to die

[pure raven]

No death count in one piece is low and it has barely increased since time skip

But including fodder then perhaps you could call it a high death count

[golden crown]

idk wanna bet? lol

[pure raven]

No gambling is rigged

[golden crown]

yea i win ( im secretly oda)

[pure raven]

When we make theories of one piece it doesn’t work either because deep down we know what will happen but we make theories to lie to forget that

[vocal laurel]

is it a stretch if I would to say dr. hiriluk was at God's Valley

[steady prism]

It is hard to corroborate that point since it’s hard to connect him to anything that happened there. If you want to brainstorm ideas on how he (or Dr Kureha) could have been related to Rocks pirates you can always do so in #manga-serious

[visual fossil]

I’m relatively new to OP, but when did it become accepted that the ending is basically Luffy’s going to destroy the red line and unite the world?

[pale heath]

Guys ik where laugh tale is

[pure raven]

We always know that the main character will win

[edgy tapir]

Wait next arc is with Saul?

[wild spoke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScskV6naCqc&t=1s

I found this video that shows the future roles between Ussop, Buggy, and of course Luffy as well.

[steady prism]

@pale heath please don’t mention Berserk spoilers here or in any manga channel. If you want to make references like that, please stick to using #other-series

[steady prism]

Could you elaborate a little bit more? What’s the idea and/or what kind of evidence are they using? We typically ask people that share links to give a short summary so ppl know what they’re clicking, just 2-3 sentences would be enough.

[wild spoke]

I'm just saying that in the video, Luffy is connected to the bible, and such symbols in the bible represent Luffy's transformation and role and bring the role into a better paradise.

Buggy represents the god of fate, Taki, who his luck is a balance of fortune and misfortune and it's only up to himself to find the balance. Buggy also is connected to a type of instrument in the bible called a "Bugle" which is a type of horn that sets up/calls upon the start of the apocalypse (Buggy might be responsible for turning the world upside down and might lead the charge against the world Government).

Ussop can bring forth his own will and has a power source to fight against his enemies. However, they are just an illusion and only just to trick people that has has strength! But only his will is the strong part!

[steady prism]

I believe that theory came to be fundamentally because of Madarm Sharley’s prediction that Luffy would destroy FMI, which is underneath the Red Line. There are other reasons (like island whales having scars because the red line affected their migration patterns), and some people symbolically use this idea to suggest that Luffy’s dream is to unite the seas (the all blue) by removing all barriers between the different blues. Another user wrote about this in greater detail here (and they made some cool points too): here #manga-theories message

[golden crown]

yea the giant
robins old friend you could say

[golden crown]

imagine luffy took one of
chopers rumble balls
he is a Zoan so it should effect him right?

[eager frost]

u mean like this?

[steady prism]

Let’s maybe move this topic to #manga-serious please

[vale plover]

Ok what if the ancient kingdom is not currently on the planet. Hear me out!! What if the ancient kingdom is actually in space. In some specific orbit and after 800 years the planet aligns perfectly with the orbit of the planet and “lands” (coincides) in the sea. The ocean will rise because the kingdom will take a huge chunk of volume. Also that’s why Roger was too early. He laughed cuz there was nothing when he reach the location pointed by the glyphs.

[rare wave]

Lowkey would be fire if there are actually 6 road poneglyphs and there is a third axis for altitude

[solemn briar]

What if Enel is standing on it right now

[red isle]

hear me out nami is apart of the nefetari clan because she looks like vivi and nami doesnt have a full name

[solemn briar]

Every female in one piece is basically Nami with different hair style

[red isle]

🤫

[pure raven]

so what do we all think of the theory Gol D. Roger started the great pirate era to save people from the flood? sorry if this is considered low effort but I feel like its a strong enough concept for discussion

[vale plover]

Oh that be dope yeah. Maybe that’s what Roger missed

[vale plover]

The moon? Hmmm idk. That seems easy to reach (ironic considering there aren’t any space ships and the moon is very far lmao). But maybe it doesn’t have to be hard to get to

[solemn briar]

I am pretty sure oda mentioned in sbs (or it was in cover story I forgot) there is a pirate crew "sailing" on the moon

[solemn briar]

@vale plover

[solemn briar]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Space_Pirates

[vale plover]

Wait that’s insanely cool I love that

[solemn briar]

The captain went against Enel on a battle in cover story too

[pure raven]

What if the middle name D is the middle name given to the descendents of joyboys crew. D could mean something like dawn (dawn of a new era where everybody is liberated)

and the reason for many people with the nickname d could be that joyboy also had a fleet like luffys and they also adopted the middle name d to show their loyalty

I have a theory that joyboys pirate crew may have been called the Dawn Pirates

[earnest kettle]

Is it me, or does the hair of celestial dragons kinda resemble whales? 🤔

[solar hedge]

Ok midnight theory time, a few things to note:

a) the world is sinking/water is rising
b) iceberg wants to turn water 7 into a ship
c) thriller bark is an example of an island already turned into a ship, in other words made mobile

Seems like the chances of the land mass of the world being pulled together into "One Piece" is steadily increasing

Also I can't help feeling the hole under Enies Lobby was a means of slowing the rate the world was flooding.

[hearty charm]

but when a hole was put on lulusia it did the opposite of slow the rate

[eager frost]

we all know at least one person that belongs to this crew

[gilded ocean]

hey i got a question who will win in a fight meliodis vs asta??

[hallow epoch]

@solar hedge and on top of that, a mobile island we know for a fact is called Zunesha

[vast plume]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[gilded ocean]

no just a questoin

what rule says that

if you guys cant handle a little cross over then why be a anime fan the reason im a fan of anime becuase of the thought of cross overs like eden zero

my questoin has theroy in it so there for its not really a cross over

[hallow epoch]

@solemn briar My theory regarding the moon at this point is the following: Vegapunk has setup a base onto the moon, knowing that the world would sink. The transmission is coming from there, that is also why the broadcast can occur in the entire world seamlessly and also why they will not be able to stop it. I assume York will come up with its location in the next chapter only to figure out they can’t do anything about it.

The “Space Pirates Jolly Roger” kind of confirms that. The fact that zunesha is a mobile gigantic elephant also makes me think that the world will go back to “how it once was” and the sheer dimensions of zunesha suggest that the ancient kingdom was born at that very early stage of “sunk” earth. The WG knowing this is confirmed by where Marie Geoise is positioned (very high up).

[last coral]

This channel is for serious discussion based on theories for one piece its also based on the one piece Manga and not the anime the channel you should go to is #other-series

[gilded ocean]

if you think about it its has theroys in it and i know this is a onepiece server but you alos have other series in it so there for its not a true one piece server if you want to be real

then why be a anime fan just for one thing

anime isnt just one thing its many and if you cant exspres it then why even bother to start this server

fine but be tell me something

alright

[gilded ocean]

not going to lie just talking about one anime is bad it dosnt even bring the thrill of other ones

you got a problem with me bro this is all i know to contact you because of this dumd rule about cross overs

you know what im out this server

[solar hedge]

I can't help but notice that we haven't had a major naval battle yet. There's been a few cannon shots between ships but usually its more of a chase than a fight with the SH running from, more often than not, the Marines.

Given that we now have Jinbe able to do some absolutely wild maneuvers with the Sunny, and that Franky likely has either incorporated aspects of Pluton that he remembers into it, or otherwise is just making it so powerful it may measure up with Pluton, I believe that we may have a major fight to look forwards to that uses the Sunny as the primary combatant, helmed by Jinbe and probably Franky for the fight. The additional compartments all let out their merchandisable tiny vehicles, and we get to see things like Jinbe using the Sunny's paw anchors for wide swings around enemy ships or some such.

My theory is that someone is going to gain control of Pluton, likely Blackbeard now that Caribou is going to him with info on Pluton's location and given that the Gura Gura no Mi may be one of the only fruits capable of bringing down the walls around Wano. If he gets Pluton, that leaves the Straw Hats to fight against it with the Sunny.

[sharp fulcrum]

I think somebody from straw hat gonna die before leaving the Island, or will be hard injured

[gloomy kestrel]

i believe there is a power source of the 5 elders which allow them the unlimited healing power.It can be in the holy lands.

[sharp fulcrum]

Or they made similar thing to the philosopher stone from FMA by this „competition” in killing everyone on the island

[cobalt frigate]

The 5 elders are certainly individual entities and they cannot read the others minds, otherwise they wouldn't explain things to each other and apologize. I think it's partially df's and partially tech (from the ancient kingdom)

[pure raven]

lemme cook.

Joyboy used the Nika - Nika fruit, and when he died his will was sealed into the fruit, meaning whoever ate it next would gain his will. He also wrote this down as one of the poneglyphs. One of Shanks' ancestors was on Joyboy's crew, and knew about what would happen, so he passed down this information through every generation, telling them to protect the fruit, until Shanks had it, and Luffy ate it.
Imu was probably part of Joyboy's crew and wanted to pull a Blackbeard, wanting Nika - Nika for himself, but he failed, so he wanted to hunt down the fruit for his own gain.
The Gorosei are also part of Joyboy's crew in Imu's division, so they joined him and formed the Marines.

[pure raven]

hmm one thing which doesn't make sense is if imu wanted the fruit so badly why would he eat a devil fruit?

[silk plume]

Not sure if this has been theorized before, but after the recent confirmation of the rising sea levels, its pretty clear that this is intentional and part of imu's plan, with the uses of ancient weapons causing rising sea levels. The question is, why? Imu already controls the entire world (mostly, more on that in a bit), and surely theres a better way of destroying ones enemies generally speaking. There is one notable exception- nika. For whatever reason (not relevant to this theory) joyboy/nika specifically and possibly devil fruits generally are a threat and/or opposed to imu and their objective, and we know of the the unique properties of this world is that somewhat paradoxically devil fruits are weak to the ocean in an ocean world. However, if we take into account the fact this this state of the world is manufactured, it makes perfect sense - the rising sea level is a way to combat devil fruits generally and nikas fruit specifically. Devil fruits are known to be notoriously hard to control, even with all the research being done into them by WG and other groups, with nikas fruit evading capture for 800 years. Theres one more factor that has evaded imus control all these years - the initial D. Heres where the core of my theory comes into play. Devil fruits are said to be manifestations of peoples Dreams. I believe the D clan are the special people who created the devil fruits as manifestations of their dreams.

[pure raven]

what if devil fruit users can actually swim but all of the water in the sea is from imus devil fruit, and imu added a condition that devil fruit users cannot swim inside the water

i also have a theory that imus demon transformation could be a kappa

[raven relic]

that could explain the whole rising sea thing, but if that was tthe case what could that mean for the elder stars? could they be apart of this as well?

[opaque wyvern]

Vegapunk Announced that the World is going to Sink into the Ocean. The Public Panics and start building Boats to Prepare themselves. Coincidentally Luffy had an idea after Learning the whereabouts of One Piece just him and his crew discovering it will be boring so with the Help of Big News Morgan and his Yonko status he announced the whole World a Challenge to a Race to One Piece with both the Treasure and the title of Pirate King will be theirs to those who wins and will reveal the Location at a starting date. Both Pirates and the Public goes Wild and Quickly sailed to Luffy and accepted his Challenge.

[solemn briar]

so enel must know that?

[uneven zephyr]

I think Vegapunk might reveal Imu to the world

• The gorosei said "He means to finish what Ohara started" Ohara was researching the void century, probably the cause of it. They're scientist they probably believed it was a natural cause until they found evidence to suggest that it was a being above them. Which is what cause them to be wiped out
• Vegapunk in the Viz says "Whoever may have rendered their judgement unto me, I am not trying to convince you that their intent is evil. Because I understand too little about him to begin with." And then he tells the world its going to sink into the sea.
  Vegapunk's whole thing is being the smartest scientist in the world being able to explain why everything happens. I don't think he's just gonna tell the world is sinking without an explanation to his conclusion. And its not like he can say every 800 years the tides rise for some other reason than Imu, because then he'd be wrong. Vegapunk's dying message can not be wrong, it'd go against his entire character. The only place I think this speech can go is the reveal of Imu, and the final saga will be Imu trying to cause another void century.

[pale stirrup]

[unique coyote]

I think this theory is correct

[tranquil flame]

I bet black beard will use the quake fruit to shatter the redline

Or at least blow a whole in it. I think Oda will want to prove its title of being able to shatter the world

[tranquil flame]

Simply the best op theory channel. Called the sinking world theory a year ago.

https://youtu.be/1mRfeq3xpNQ?si=VH6DMpyr-D-1mypm

This one is about how the world is sinking: the mother flame is heating the ocean, raising the sea level to sink the world

[slender fulcrum]

Mother flame is Uranium, Uranium powering URANUS
Pluton is powered by Plutonium

[deft prawn]

i just saw a theory about the gorosei not wanting to kill luffy, but to capture him alive and freeze him so his rubber powers dont work at all, if they kill him his will and fruit will be reincarnated again, and it said that in the past they did accomplish to froze joyboy but the giant went there to kill him so he could reincarnate (and that's why the giant is apologizing)

[pure raven]

He knew that Joyboy would do everything in his power to stop him eating Nika so he wanted to get it to give to someone else and manipulate them to use it for his bidding

[steady prism]

This channel isn’t really the place for powerscaling. Please use #manga or #also-manga instead

[whole root]

Not sure if it’s been said yet but after this chapter everything from Fishman island is coming together. I think luffys true dream is gonna be to have a party with the entire world of one piece on the Noah after the world is flooded. Let me know if it’s already been said and/or if you think this is possible

[pale stirrup]

[earnest glen]

Ancient Kingdom Atlantis, Luffy defeating Imu, destroying the Red Line, having party with the entire world theories are starting to get old

[whole root]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it lol

[harsh jacinth]

He didn't know. NOAH exist back then ☠️
And flooding the world? He is luffy...

[whole root]

I didn’t say he knows about the ship. Obviously he’s not going to flood the world but he will be the one to somehow save everyone

[steady prism]

!theories @mighty silo don’t be fucking weird, please read the channel description next time too

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[heady zealot]

I have a theory on Uranus being connected to Enel (or Birkians) as Uranus is the God of Sky (or Sky itself) in Greek Mythology... just like how Poseidon is the "God of Sea"...
We have Shirahoshi (confirmed to be Poseidon) who can control Noah (Ark which moves in "Sea")
then we have Enel who controls Maxim (Ark which moves in "Sky")
and Birkians were said to be originally from "Fairy Vearth" which is like Peak Sky island

[gaunt flume]

There are weird squiggly symbols on the reverse mountain and the throne. In 1094 when Luffy fights kizaru, his body forms this exact same symbol. Could be a way of hinting that the throne was originally Joy Boy’s.

[undone holly]

Guys let me share some of my humble theory about Joyboy + Noah + Fishmen island... So Joyboy made a promise to the fishmen... can we agree that his promise was to take the people of Fishman Island to the surface? and with this we can agree that the purpose and creation of Noah was to carry the entire people from the bottom to the top and not to save the people from the flood? Joyboy was unable to fulfill this promise because there was no one capable of controlling the kings of the seas... from this I'm trying to link the reason and Joyboy's defeat... the soon-to-be WG manipulated the information about Joyboy and their intentions, they even passed on the information that the person who would cause the flood would be Joyboy... I think he was defeated by the 20, but this is due to several betrayals carried out by people who believed in this manipulated information...

Why does the government not want fish men on the surface? they would always survive this possible cycle of floods, they would always know the whole story, there would be no way to erase the history of the people of the fishmen island... this is the reason this race suffers so many injustices and obviously racism... they are a direct danger to this domination of Celestial Dragons + Imu

[coarse gull]

yes

[pallid atlas]

The World of One Piece will be flipped upside down. Luffy will bring more land and freedom then to let the WG drown the entire world.

[snow herald]

Why would fishmen and merfolk even need noah? We've seen examples of them swimming from and to the surface and the sea bed.

[sharp fulcrum]

the one piece=laugh tale, propably the one piece is just rubbery island.

[snow herald]

Wait a second... Could the mother flame and the fire on lunarians be connected somehow?!
Here's what I think.
The CDs deliberately started discriminating against fishmen and merfolk because they wanted to keep them away from the surface, they new how Poseidon worked.
They hunted lunarians because they didn't want anyone else with the power to fuel/control Uranus.
Pluton was hidden because anyone can use it, by far the most general and dangerous of the weapons, no special conditions.

[thorn path]

what if pluton is on the moon because lunarians came from the moon. Maybe enel can return it to earth somehow

[snow herald]

I think it's confirmed that Pluton is buried deep under wano kuni's mount Fuji

If lunarians are in fact from a moon, it would explain the fire on their backs being the fuel for their air ship, Uranus.

[thorn path]

It would make sense if enels ship is a small scale uranus

[inland cobalt]

Yeah Pluton is under wano

[pure raven]

joyboy is dead tho

[rich wyvern]

do we have any idea yet what is possibly making sea levels rise? could it be imu since we think that they are the emboidment of the sea devil umi? Is his plan to "sink the world" so that he can get his hands on all the ancient weapons?

[sharp fulcrum]

Ancient weapons=logia top users

[iron current]

Can you elaborate?

[sand gust]

What i dont get is that how the hell the ship gonna survive when having devil fruit

[sand gust]

People building things i mean devil fruit can create materials and century have pass it would likely to increase the sea level and plus destroying red line or the wall in wano will definitely increase it

[pure raven]

And what if Imu is actually the Poseidon from 800-900 years ago

[coarse gull]

open

[maiden pewter]

j\

[pure raven]

||Now we know why Shanks doesn't want any of his members to be devil fruit users; so they won't get sick when they get at laughtale and so they won't die when the world sinks.||

[maiden pewter]

yo guys i found something idk if it already is there it is about the golden city in skyepia and the flower capital in wano look alot alike

[mental pike]

Small theory, I think I know where vegapunk's transponder snail is - it's inside York's body. Vegapunk probably knew about his own dark desires and thought of a backup plan should his death arise because of them. He put the transponder snail inside York so she would have to sustain mortal damage in order for it to be destroyed, making sure her plans would never come into fruition. Then he set the condition that it would activate upon his death. This would be possible thanks to York being connected to him already and it would also explain why York doesn't know where the snail is, as he put it there while she was being created. You might think, "how come the video shows the other vegapunks?" And that is a decent hole in this theory, until you consider that York would've destroyed the video if she knew about it, and that we haven't seen York in the background of the video, which may mean that the video was created before York was, which does line up with York being vegapunk number 6. What do you guys think?

Holy moly I did not expect to have spoken so much

[echo pier]

@mental pike i like that idea

[last estuary]

the satellites were created during the time skip
York is aware of the transponder snail since she says, "it was recently completed"
York isn't aware of this because she wasn't syncing to the punk records
I am bad with timeline but apparently, this was recorded a day before SH's came to egghead

Their creation could be even earlier than timeskip. I'm just going off on Kuma's flashback and Bonney not being privy to the satelites

[rich wyvern]

I understand ur point but roger was already sick even before going to laughtale and he never ate a devil fruit

[lunar path]

I'm a little confused. if the stella dies... is it somehow established that the other vegapunks are wholely independent and don't need the main brain? I would assume the stella's death means the brain fruit goes back into the circulation of the world's fruits, and would also cut-off whatever knowledge access the individual vegapunks could access.

Basically I'm struggling to understand how York thinks this is a good idea. They seem like the dumbest of the bunch... or the logic isn't clear to me, and I'm the dumb one?

[junior notch]

i don't think that other vegapunks need the main body to stay alive, because all of them are connected to the brain and don't really require stella to be there with them at the time

[pure raven]

Others vegapunk are connected to the initial brain of vegapunk (stella) who is in the punk record and not stella directely, that's why they stay alive I think

[last estuary]

They are independent. They don't really need the brain to survive. The brain is still alive so the fruit won't be circulating. Brain is more of a hub to gain access to their knowledge and experience.

[dawn aurora]

I have a wild theory that Imu is not "evil" in fact she is trapped in a weird charade of pretending to be the throne holder because of her "ultimate" lightning wielding powers but in reality I believe its all a farce. I believe she is playing along and also waiting for the inevitable "prophecy" of Nika returning, to happen. I mean the elders are unbeatable they are immortal in fact which she isn't and she wouldn't stand a change even using her "secret" power that probably has a HUGE downside to it which will be revealed. But the elders are also incredibly stupid and senile they forgot their own history. That this cycle of war and love always repeats, that you cant have love without knowing what suffering is, there is no good or evil, that everything is part of One big Piece. I believe this cycle and "story" has always repeated for many times in the OP universe but every time with a slightly different "player" called "Nika".

I believe the secret of the "D" clan is that they have the power of soul reincarnation in the form of the Devil Fruits. However when someone of the D bloodline also consumes such fruit it resonates harder with that person it almost attracts itself to its preferred D bloodline user even. However there always has to be the opposite. Light and dark, sun and black hole, love and lust...That is why there are always two "opposite" fruits. So when the "soul transfer" occurs the user will get a huge "imagination" power boost, this is the only advantage the "soul transfer" gives you. Which translates in warping the very reality of your own body to the whole space around you. Using and wielding this "ancient" soul transfer/imagination power literally is what causes time to bend and warp. The past becomes the present and the opposite. Essentially this is the power to manipulate time and space to your will. A very terrifying power indeed. Especially when two opposites come together for a brief moment of time we see what makes this whole cycle keep going. However that is up to Oda. But what happens after is we see the souls of these two opposites clashing and releasing all that energy is what imbued the fruits in the world with past users "imagination" powers for the next generation to use these powers in new even more imaginative ways. Imagination to end some of their own suffering. Imagination to help their loved ones. Imagination to spread more love. Imagination to conquer. Imu knows everything about this cycle in fact she is trapped in it because she is the mother of all, very fragile, but everlasting as she is what keeps everything going forever. This is what Vegapunk also refers to as the "mother flame", or rather the REAL power of Imu.

[maiden pewter]

no one answerd to me

i found something it is about the golden city in skyepia and the flower capital in wano look alot alike

[livid blaze]

Probably since you posted an observation, not a theory - not even details on how the two are similar. If you want to discuss further #manga-serious should be the better place

[magic kayak]

I think original power of all Devil Fruits coming from Deities/Devils/God... those with real powers.
Maybe some one with Fruit Fruit No Mi power, or god of fruit turn all power user in the past into devil fruits.
Or those powerful Entities are locked somewhere / cursed by the sea / sea prison... and in order to surface, part of them are born into devil fruits.

So maybe Five Elders are original user of their own power but not the borrowed one ?

[pure raven]

yea cuz he was just sick

[wispy wadi]

Ngl people are heavily over thinking this..... the sea is rising because lulusia was sunk..... vegapunk is just ahout to tell them about lulusia and probably reveal the actual secret about the world government...

[arctic shoal]

dawn is very important

[pure raven]

probably related to the sea beasts, the voice of all things and the will of D

[upper gust]

I am going with it will some sort of global warming type thing. The civilization that had massively advanced technology including power was wiped out, and now the world is suffering? What Kaido did to the flower capital cannot be a single isolated incident considering how the celestials are

global seas rising is already a real life issue for islanders, and I could maybe see that being an angle that they go after

[dark quail]

i think i figured something out last night falling asleep

in the same way gecko morias powers and augments dissipate in the light

so do imus

but imu is a computer and her memory is filling up, the server needs to restart,

theres four servers and one that connects them, each blue and the grand line, the red line is a firewall, the many ways you can get to raftale is because its not an internet, its a mesh net

So, what is happening to lulusia and enies lobby? they are opening the curtain around the planet and completely deleting the data of the island from the HARDDRIVE not just the RAM, so the resources can be allocated elsewhere,

that giant gaping hole in the ocean is reality, its what is actually at lulusias coordinates with imus fabrication no longer having to be projected there, whatever being there having 'never existed', completely deleted from the harddrive, allowed to happen because they no longer showed they were of use to the world government, not being able to make full payments, kicked from the reverie, their citizens able to rise up and throw them in jail (i also have a suspicion that lulusia was picked specifically because ace had some shenanigans here in his cover story, like ace might have knocked someone up here, or something, sabo having picked to go there instinctively from having the mera mera punmping in his veins, sabo did help out that one quilt looking dress girl that ace absolutely interacted with)

they have to clear the server, but they cant until everyone is logged out of the servers, and they are artificially advancing the server wide shutdown for maintenence because the computer itself will fucking crash if not,

imu might need vivi to literally add her brain to the computing power. i imagine if this 'simulation' is creating new beings and tracking their progress in order to update their profile and advance time for them, it needs a new cpu/ram/ssd combo. this is what was happening with Noland on jaya too, but he stopped

the installation, and the island was forcefully kicked from the server, in addition to the matter that was lulusia being completely gone, imu does not have to track the time there either, it is more or less a black hole now (fucking duh) in that it will never change from that state,

which is why enies lobby is constantly daytime, when it was ripped from existence, the sun was high in the sky, and now it will never set

this also strengthens my theory that the ocean is also like pythagorean cup in that once it gets to the top, its drains alllll the way down to the bottom leaving a fresh server of wildly nutrient rich land,

thing is, there was a system in place to respawn you, likely over time as to not overload the server, through the fruits, a godlike tech of reincarnation to let you log out and log back into the server after it shuts down and reboots,

but now imu owns the tree that reincarnates people, she has complete control over who gets to come back in to the world, who gets archived, and what their file looks like when its archived

thing is... theres another tree

its the tree hiriluk saw that cured him
and its the tree roger saw that made him know he wasnt going to die

imu has complete control over the souls of this planet, except for the few whos soul is hosted on the last remaining server left besides the eve tree in Mariejoa

and those motherfuckers are untouchable, no matter how many times you kill them they keep respawning

what do you do to an enemy that keeps showing up every twenty years?

you fuck their file up so much that they dont know who they are, or that they are the wrong fucking animal, and those stay in their file for reincarnation, plus it would make them incredibly easy to keep track of, like a small goat we know

im pretty sure the fruit was meant to be eaten by the mammals, the birds, the fish and reptiles

giving us minks, fishmen, dragons, winged people

until someone came along and invented a one size fits all robotic tanuki that could actually turn into the person whos soul was in the fruit instead of just making the animal that ate it act instinctually similar, thing is, anyone who was an animal after being a human would have their soul changed shape by the animal (or animals) they had been reincarnated as, coupled with the person inside, which is how we get minks and the like (whos ancestors used to hide in fruit bunkers)

problem is it seems that a persons shadow and their desire are intertwined, or at least were tinkered into their fruit by someone hearing their wishes/prayers/wish lanterns/actual desire (kinda like kuma asking where you would go on vacation)

or maybe that last second before you die where your brain floods with chemicals warps the soul

maybe its straight up strong liqour can fuzz your file up enough that your desires are worked into your soul irreperably

but JOYBOY was a tanuki, with no fruit, and therefore no instructions or command (like the toy soldier in dressrosa didnt get commands from sugar before fucking off) and because of it, he could follow his own dream, and shapeshift at his own will after he fell to earth and saw the pain that was being orchestrated

[dark quail]

thing is im pretty sure the only thing that joyboy wanted more than anything was to be human

I think choppers fruit is joyboys specifically

[rich wyvern]

You’re right bro, I completely overlooked this. Maybe I was thinking wayy too much abt it LOL you just never know w oda and the way he writes the story. This man always has something up his sleeve.

[rich wyvern]

I think Imu can create devil fruits/turn devils into fruits hence why they have the gorosei (which seem to be straight up devils themselves) under their control cuz imu can turn them into fruits at any given moment.

[wispy wadi]

Yeh im not trying to hate on anyones fun i love theories, i just think ppl r digging too much into the ocean thing and i think vegapunk is just about to expose tht the world government has been destroying islands and covering it up and try to rile up the world to fight back

[rich wyvern]

yea could be

[elfin merlin]

Quick theory, how luffy beats gorosei: the super sayian gear 5 mode hinted at early on in egghead, activated when vegapunk dies, a crew member or Bonny dies or get seriously injured 👍

[dark quail]

the gorosei, im pretty sure, despite seeming kind of etherial in their summoning and their alleged immortality, are either the real physical bodies, or corpses, of someone huge that imu conquered, but instead of having devil fruits being the source of their power, or at least the form that luffy is fighting, imu is personally puppeting them,

but not like doffy, like gecko morias shadows and zombies,

gecko moria taught us that the shadow dictates the shape of the body,

imu is filling these elder stars with her shadow, giving them the power she thinks is optimal for whoever they were before,

like ryumas body with brooks soul

these are conquered kings past, utilizing the shadow and techniques of someone else, given to them by gecko moria who had taken them from anyone significant whose corpse he could plunder, like ryumas, or anyone strong he could trap on the island in the triangle

I think even more than five, Imu in total can puppet eight bodies because of the heavy implications of ink, the parallel with orochi, zeo being a wobblegong, hachi being an octopus that covers himself pitch black when the strahats come to get him at duvals, but mostly this double spread with luffy doing the nika in fucking 703

and because of this strange ink/shadow shenanigans, somehow blackbeard knows, and also knows that he can utilize his dark fruit to try and pull the rug out from under imu

also at the start of wano, theres that weird ass squid that tries to drown luffy before they crash in two separate places, that was NEVER talked about again,

frankly its a little strange even unrelated to my theory

[dark quail]

traditional japanese ink is called sumi, and its made of animal fats, perfumes, and soot

its traditionally stored in dried sticks with kanji on them, consumers can break it down into powder and add sake

but ive always thought of ceasars axolotl fruit pet smiley, that was just the condensed poison he used to kill everyone on punk hazard,

and how imu means 'soot' and 'hate'

how kuma talks about the bad feelings needing to go somewhere or they end up returning

how vegapunk talked about kumas fruit being able to make physical things from intangible things

how the poneglyphs seem to say things to those that can listen

how they focus on orochi drawing X's on the bridges out of wano while it was happening,

and how imu did the same when lulusia was being destroyed/ordered to be destroyed

how if skypeia tells the shape of the story as much as i think it does, then, likely since god valley or when the giant robot climbed the red line, someone muscled their way onto the throne but besides shuffling the people around and punishing anyone for speaking of it, runs the kingdom exactly the same, purposefully using up their resources so they can one day obliterate the place as they leave with all of the weapons and gold

and with the history of the fishmen, the promise to them, the prophecy, rogers strange fucking connection to whales and fishmen, and their being the main race to feel disdain against, hell, even with hody jones, and arlongs arcs/themes,

and that strange throwaway comment from sukiyaki when he was showing robin and law the poneglyphs, about how jack was able to find the poneglyph because he was a fishman

im inclined to believe that a large portion of imu is an eight tentacled ink creature that was created from the concentration of the ash of a genocided and razed kingdom

and now with the Mother Flame, i think we have a better feeling for how,

[strange delta]

bro ur onto nothing, stop yapping please

[dark quail]

block me, you arent doing anything to add to the conversation, dont yap at all please

[blissful seal]

this channel is dedicated for lengthy theories, if you don't like it you can check another channel

[olive jolt]

banger theory bro, if you take out jinbe, luffy ''controls'' 8 pirates
the sun controls 8 pirates

im just thinking going from geocentrism (imu being the center of the world and the planets being her subject, orbiting the earth - ancient weapons)
to heliocentrism , luffy, the sun, being the center of the world

a copernican revolution

in order to reach 8, he needs to control uranus, pluton and neptune (poseidon) , it seems like the only one missing is pluton

once it controls all 8 there is no way the current world order (W.G) can be destroyted

what if imu is some kind of goat
going merry (goat usually represents earth) is destroyed
thousand sunny is created
this can be a hint at the change happening with a new world order

in other words imu is sengokus goat

[toxic juniper]

I remember how my dad told me that he thinks the one piece gave you the power to reincarnate so Luffy is just a reincarnation of Roger.

[hallow bear]

Gear 5ths time limit is purely due to luffys lack of understanding of what he is

Luffy still believes its just another gear to his devil fruit and due to how 4th gear had limit of haki exhaustion luffy believes gear 5th has a limit and the old man form is just what he came up with

Why isn't it real? Well we know joy boy was a very prominent figure saving people globally, this can't be done in 5 minute intervals, we also know gear 5th is all about imagination explaining luffys limit

Gear 6? No infinite gear 5? Yes

[last coral]

Gear 5 limit is probably more due to the fact that he is overusing a shit ton of haki iirc kaido says he is coating his entire body in coc and coa while in g5 so its probably just the g4 drawback from haki exhaustion on an entirely new level

[mental pike]

Luffy coated in coc
lmao

[dark quail]

you might be onto something,

so, in gilgamesh epic, after losing his best friend Enki Du (monkey D) (punished by the gods for he and gilgamesh chopping down the sacred forest of humbaba (gabababa lol))

Gilgamesh lost his mind because he tasted death for the first time and he feared it more than anything

so he set out to find the elixir of immortality, literally crossing the sea of death, reaching the sacred immortal monks

they greet him with a sad smile and tell him that immortality, like they had, was no longer possible, but, through gilgameshes zapp branigan esque wailing and rolling on the ground, they comforted him because they had a work around

they said, hey, heres a flower thats real neat, it can turn you back into a child and if you do it over and over again thats basically immortality right?

gilgamesh wiped his tears and set off to his kingdom to share with everyone pseudo immortality

along the way, a giant fucking non magic snake stole it, and even though gilgamesh just crossed the sea of death twice, he for whatever reason doesnt give chase,

and instead sits and cries in a puddle of his own tears over his kingdom and himself being cursed to mortality again

along comes the saint of drink, and he sits with gilgy and he gets drunk with him

gilgamesh learns from the saint, that, if we teach our subsequent generations, what we know, and our stories, then they can buiild upon it and isnt that more or less immortality? (mans dream never dies)

and for the final time, gilgy wiped his tears and rocketed back to ur, where he summoned every stone mason, historian, and scientist and instructed them to make ~20 stone tablets that could be recreated and spread throughout the world, detailing the history and learned lessons of Ur and Gilgamesh

and because of these tablets, we know so much about Ur, the first major civilization of IRL people

and if you tell me the poneglyphs arent in some way related to the tablets of ur,

ill poke ya in the eye

but, in the epic, this does mean, there is a giant fucking snake out there with turn-yourself-back-into-a-baby immortality,

ive never been able to shake the idea that the giant snakes of shandora were respawning and not the child of and then another child of

like its the same snake, the ancient tech just shits out another?

all im saying is weve never seen all three giant snakes in the same room together

it all makes me think of the shanks that talks to the gorosei, one of the options was always that garling thought shanks died and just made another one.

the scene where shanks walks into the goroseis room parallels when the strawhats pull up on yonji in the sea around totto land, full black cloak, obscured right side of the face, they think its sanji, we know better, the gorosei room wants us to think its shanks, but we know better

fig figar garland are all words relating to gardening or cultivators, streussen is master patissie, is figarland master gardener? we do have a pretty impressive flower room for the head head honcho

and in the epic, its pretty specific about it being a snake that took the flower, not a dragon or a wyrm

and this is the first im drawing this connection, but shanks kinda do be sounding like snakes

did figarland garling make a name for himself at god valley because he stole the make-yourself-a-baby plant?

the place was known for its abundant resources and the motif of the mountains almost being praying hands is likely more of a reference to irl JAVANESE temples features called Candi-Bentar that are gates to religious buildings made from candis that are split right down the middle to signify the crossing of this life to the next,

I think god valley was a door to the afterlife, or rather, a terminal that could access the server, at any rate, fills the role of entrance to the 'sea of death' like gilgamesh crossed

[sonic bay]

yo guys i am in ep 967 there is an road poneglyph next to the joy boy apology poneglyph but when luffy and the crew went there their wasnt any. so people say hinokizu has it. so woud luffy come back to the fish men island for the last road poneglyph and in the process he would destroy fishmen island some how. because madam sharelys prophecies are always right.

[last estuary]

That road poneglyph is gone... read the manga and you will find out

[full merlin]

Not really a fully formed theory, but something I thought of late last night. If either the red line or the calm belt end up destroyed in the end of the story, but not both then the world will be made up of two D’s. If we’re assuming that the red line is older then the void century becuase the lunarians lived there then maybe the world was divided in two with the D clan ruling half or something. I don’t really think this is the case but I found it interesting so j thought I’d share

[dark quail]

ok, but how funny would the blackbeard reveal be if it was:
"You fools! its not Marshall D. Teach! its Marshall ᗡ. Teach!"

[inland cobalt]

except not really Ds have straight sections

[full merlin]

? The world cut in half would have to straight sections. I’m saying the red line in the straight part

[inland cobalt]

No it wouldn't it would be a sphere

[full merlin]

What is half a sphere flattened out?

[inland cobalt]

A D is not a semicircle

[full merlin]

Do you mean that the bottom and top of a D are a little flatter? I know you can’t map a D or half a circle exactly but it’s super close

[full merlin]

So awful I kind of love it lol

[deft prawn]

what would happen to the tenryuubito at the very end of one piece? i believe they would not be killed but instead taken all of them to little garden on their own luck

[weak wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/10rackz-gif-16500371327647267997

[dire cobalt]

So I think joyboy never awakened the nika fruit, but knew its true power the entire time he had it. When he died he left a letter to his successor and when Roger found this letter it made him laugh because he realized it wasn’t for him. Shanks has found the one piece but didn’t release that info to the public and for some reason has decided he doesn’t want luffy find it now

[lament kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/luffy-ed-gif-4238134136138479826

[pure raven]

So why would it require awakening the df to be joyboy

[dire cobalt]

What

[pure raven]

Idk my view on theories is you need you some form of backing or smth for it to make sense. Idk how much backing this has. Like zune only refered to Luffy as joyboy and the rest of the series seems to be making that nod only after he awakened (but in this case joyboy didnt even awaken)

Also I highly doubt shanks got to the one piece

[dire cobalt]

I’m not even going to try because you are so wrong in so many ways

[pure raven]

Sure lol, I think the point of the theory channel is to create discussion but to each their own

[last estuary]

He didn't really refer Luffy as Joyboy though

[pure raven]

He says joyboy has returned doesn’t he?

[last estuary]

I was messing with you. He heard the drums of liberation and says, "Joyboy has returned" but didn't explicitly refer Luffy as Joyboy though

[pure raven]

Ok but clearly that’s in reference to Luffy yk smh tomfoolery! Ban immediately

[last estuary]

but yeah, OP has no idea what he's talking about

[pure raven]

Nvm unbanned for agreeing with me

[last estuary]

You should have just posted this panel and the zunesha one

[pure raven]

I don’t have any panels saved. I just remember them all or I make up new ones

[last estuary]

And what's this talk about shanks already found one piece lmao

[last estuary]

Proof?

[pure raven]

I have meme panels and agenda? But that’s about it

[reef pond]

This entire thing about Shanks having found the one piece makes 0 sense and I don't think he "doesn't want luffy to find it", what he said is "Let's go claim the one piece" after finding out Luffy defeated Kaido and awakened the Nika fruit which sounds more like he thinks he's ready for Luffy to actually claim the one piece (which will still take a while but again compared to how long Shanks waited for this it's nothing that's why he's saying that already)

And about Joyboy not having awakened the Joyboy fruit just in general has 0 proof because we don't know much about him and I think the one piece will just in general be something entirely else than we all suspect. I'd like to add my own theory about Joyboy tho, I can't explain the whole theory because for that I'd have to go into the spoilers (and I'm unsure if I'm allowed to say anything about the spoilers even if I mark them as that) but basically I think Joyboy created the Nika fruit, from Vegapunk we know that the fruits get created through dreams (and yes I know there's very weird fruits but I think it's a bit more complicated and not just "I want to specifically turn my arms into wheels" but a lot more reason) and Joyboy wanted to be free and liberate the world (read the second last line of the spoilers for a little bit more proof) so through this dream the Nika fruit got created. Now it could be that he never actually found the fruit but his dreams and the personality still gets shared through the fruit or he did actually find it there's just not enough info about joyboy. A lot of this is obviously speculation but I think this could be a possibility

[last estuary]

Actually, based on his hypothesis, it's desire that births the devil fruit. Doesn't necessarily has to be through Joyboy... As who's who said, slaves in the distant past would pray on Nika for salvation... and Nika seems prevelant especially in skypeia and elbaf.

[stone sapphire]

U know what i just realized if the whole thing with joyboy is similar to that certain character in aot if he was the first df user and ofc why wouldnt u call this person a god after seeing him perform such feats (hopefully this doesnt get me banned)

I also wonder if it was a chain reaction but since (i think) we don't know how old imu this theory can't be solified

I could understand why he hates luffy and ofc not only him but also viví (that connection with her mother ofc)

But why teach

Yeah yeah ik ive heard it because of the D

[still inlet]

luffy's mom is women

[turbid trail]

I believe the world government already knows where the one piece is.

In fact, they already harvested it. It was the Nika fruit.

Unfortunately for them, shanks stole it. Probably on the order of Roger himself. The reason Roger laughed as he did upon finding it is because he had incurable heart disease. The Nika fruit, which gives rubber like properties, would have allowed him to keep his heart beating (much like every time luffy mad joyboy powers up). This is also why he said “he came too early.” The fruit that would save him wasn’t finished growing.

[hardy trench]

I don’t think (devil) fruits grow like that

[deft prawn]

What if there is something in laughtale that needs joyboy's drum of liberation to activate? It could make sense that there is "something" that uses the same energy power as the giant robot from egghead, also it would be an extra thing to cause roger to say "joyboy, i wished i lived in the same era as you"

[clever lintel]

I have a thought about the origin of an aspect of Nika.

The idea of Nika's stretching powers could be similar to how different people see Jesus looking like themselves. Nika being giant to giants, small to tontatta, human to humans, etc. This shifting size and shape comes from different stories portraying him differently.

[fallow bobcat]

Little theory based on recent culminated points: we'll get some major scene involving Imu in chapter 1116. Of course we have the symbolism of the number 16 relating to Imu but based on this chapter and the previous few there's reason to believe Vegapunk has knowledge of Imu or at least a king of the world.

1. He knows of Joy Boy, Nika and the void century
2. He mentioned a certain "him" in the previous chapter
3. He predicted the Mother Flame usage
4. Ties to Dragon imply his access to the book of Genesis and thus knowledge of Imu's name
   Vegapunk exposing or mentioning him may force Imu into an offensive stance, possibly granting us another extended scene with juicy lore

[manic lichen]

Guys, Doflamingo there, didn't just say "We should go somewhere HIGER UP" out of nowhere, maybe he meant the Red Line, maybe that's why the Red Line is so high up from the sea level, maybe that's why the Celestial Dragons live there.
So maybe, just maybe the calamity of the world drowning is one of the secrets they wanted to keep about the VOID CENTURY, so that only the celestial dragons get to live... maybe the Ancient weapons and Noah were made for this exact reason...

maybe NOAH was JoyBoy's ship and he used it to sail in the HUGE water world, also judging by the fact that 2 of the 3 ancient weapons are sea-based
Also, Wano, how did the water get there, was it also because of the flooding?

[vagrant heath]

Wano built the walls to contain Pluton and the rain collected to create all the water I believe.

[manic lichen]

"flooding" just connects everything!!
Wano, Reverse Mountain, all blue, Fishman Island, Noah, Poseidon, Pluton, Giants, Red Line, Tequila Wolf

[manic lichen]

catastrophic flooding just makes more sense imo

[deft prawn]

I can see the person next to Saul being robin's mother 😮

[manic lichen]

everything that is connected to the Void Century and World Government can by easily connected to a catastrophic flooding
EVEN THE SKY ISLANDS

[fallow bobcat]

The water in old Wano is noted to be freshwater and the walls would have prevented floodwater entering anyway

@deft prawn that's just another shot of Saul

[manic lichen]

but why are the walls even there??

[deft prawn]

oh lol mb i thought the trees where connected and there was a person sitting next to him

[manic lichen]

@fallow bobcat

[manic lichen]

.

[deft prawn]

What could be the cause of the sea level rising tho? i thought it could be the usage of the mother flame but that wouldnt make sense cause the water rised in the void century too right? and there was not a mother flame back then

[manic lichen]

natural phenomenon?

[last estuary]

mother flame is not a weapon

[deft prawn]

isnt mother flame what destroyed lulusia kingdom?

[manic lichen]

not a weapon, but more of an energy source

[last estuary]

it's a fuel source for whatever weapon (likely Uranus) used to annihilate Lulusia... man, this 1 min timer is annoying

[deft prawn]

oh you're probably right

[fallow bobcat]

!theories Guys #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[hardy trench]

https://twitter.com/StrawhatUFO/status/1711631727100367121

if y'all haven't seen this guy's theories yet i think they're really worth looking at even if they're not 100% on the money, especially with the recent chapters

tried to summarize this theory for non-twitter users but it was kinda hard so i gave up

Mr UFO 👒🛸 (@StrawhatUFO) on X

One Piece Theory:

The Fruits of the Great Flood - how the Devil Fruits came to be.

In this thread, I’ll connect the Devil Fruits to recent events in Egghead, and then reveal a secret Oda’s been hiding for years. Everything will come full circle.

#onepiece #onepiecetheory

Twitter · Oct 10, 2023, 6:36 AM

[flat heron]

what do you think the "A&Mu" on the tank stands for?

[last estuary]

atom

[distant slate]

if joyboy is from AK is nika from the shandia tribe

[quasi lynx]

yea obviously

[hardy trench]

trying to give the cliffnotes version though
Devil Fruits might be created from souls

• souls contain the essence of a person, including their dreams, and the shandians believed that their ancestors' souls dwelt in their trees instead of passing on to an afterlife

• devil fruits may have souls of their own- sabo seems to hear ace through his fruit and inanimate objects can gain life by consuming zoans

• the human soul has been portrayed with a familiar spiral pattern, just like the patterns that adorn devil fruits

• the world seems to have flooded (confirmed now), and this seems to be a biblical reference- noah's ark and the bible were referenced by fishman island and kuma/iva

• the gorosei may have flooded the world intentionally, to wipe out people resisting the world government, and these people would naturally have been branded devils just like the devils of ohara

• as the oharans drowned their books for the future, these ancient devils may have turned their souls into abilities for the future- fruits created by devils

• the fact that these ancient devils were drowned may explain the weakness to water as well- devil fruit users have the souls of those who've already drowned

• not quite part of this theory itself but rather a hook to a followup theory, but the fact that the souls of devil fruits continue to reincarnate without passing on while demonic monsters like the gorosei are free to roam the earth may suggest that there's something fundamentally wrong with the world of one piece

• the gates of hell may be closed

[last estuary]

Joyboy is from the ancient kingdom
and Nika is the God of elbaf

[vital acorn]

I think it's more than that. "Somewhere higher up" also includes sky and moon

[split glacier]

Joy boy and Imu siblings looking more likely 👀

[winter vortex]

wait doesnt doffy know smth about the celestial dragons, he has something against them doesn't he? that's why they can't attack him or something

[full merlin]

Hol up I was in this channel and I just clicked on the link before reading what it was like an idiot 😭 I didn’t finish opening the link tho am I screwed

[winter vortex]

bro read the chapter

[full merlin]

No there was a scam link to a steam community post I wasn’t taking about you

[winter vortex]

😭 why'd you delete your msg

[manic lichen]

oh you saw it, damn

anyways, this chapter is equal to the "post-apocalypse" reveal imo, said everything about how and why the world is post-apocalyptic

hope next one will be even better

[winter vortex]

yes , why'd you delete

[full merlin]

This chapter made me wonder if the name of the ancient, advanced kingdom is Eden.

We know now that joyboy was the first pirate, and was the first to “go out to sea” and leave a highly technologically advanced and bountiful kingdom. It makes me wonder if he ate the gum gum/Nila fruit (presumably from the eve treee), and was either banished for that, or if the ancient kingdom was partially underwater so he had to leave.

Also

The phrase “first to set out to sea” is so weird to me, and really makes me question the geography of the ancient world even more. If the world before/during the void century was the same as it is today, how then people couldn’t have been on every island like today unless the water level was a lot lower, or if there were connecting land in between islands. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s reveled that everyone lived on a super continent together, before either water levels rising or the continent getting shattered

[distant slate]

vegapunk learned from bubble flame

[manic lichen]

flooding could be a reason for the isolation of the Fishmen, and the exceptionally high Red line, and ofc Zuniesha having really long legs

elephant in the sea is ridiculous
it can be inferred that Zuniesha also had a habitat, but it was destroyed by the flooding

[last estuary]

he knows about the sacred treasure of the mariejoa, possibly referring to the weapon which was fired on Lulusia (Uranus)

[full merlin]

For sure. I feel like at least the red line past was all but confirmed by doffy this chapter. And zuniesha having long legs makes me wonder if that was done via the power of the nika fruit and if that happened on long ring long land. Especially since tonjit seems to know something since he was prepped with stilts.

[winter vortex]

i assumed zunesha having long legs was a result of like adaptation

[last estuary]

I feel like they didn't feel the need to sail since they had everything available resources wise.

[full merlin]

That’s my point. Why did they leave then? Maybe they were banished

[manic lichen]

height increase doesn't just come from walking an elephant in the sea bruv 💀

[winter vortex]

just a possibility idk

[full merlin]

Also the last one is better

[last estuary]

what

[full merlin]

Your username haha. Just noticed it

[last estuary]

I don't think he was banished... It would be totally out of character if he truly was... I think it has to do with Nika since it's synonymous to freedom/ liberation.

[full merlin]

That’s totally possible and makes sense thematically. But I’d argue that the story of the garden of Eden is that you get banished for wanting to be free and know the truth of the world

[manic lichen]

one reason could be his actions?
gluttony?

[last estuary]

zoan fruits have a will of their own, and they're known to amplify what's already there... for e.g. Lucci and his blood thirsty nature. The fruit drove what was already on Joyboy's mind which was to set sail and go on an adventure thus making him the first "pirate"

[full merlin]

Ooo that’d totally fit nicely actually. Especially sense food seems to be part of the deal with the fruit

[manic lichen]

If it was Eden then why did the fruit even manifest itself?

[full merlin]

Why where there fruits of knowledge if noones was supposed to eat them I feel like it still lines up. And the answer could just be that humans still wanted more even in paradise

And to soshi i actually think your idea makes a lot of sense with the whole will of a zoan thing. I could totally see that being the case too

[manic lichen]

wraith of the Sea god?

[full merlin]

Not sure what you mean. But the wrath of a god from eating a fruit is still very garden of Eden. It’s arguably the biggest indicator

[last estuary]

also, AFAIK the story of the garden of Eden was both, curiosity and temptation, which led to their banishment from the paradise. It never was to be free or knowing the truth of the world, no?

[manic lichen]

what if Misu-Misu no Mi really is a thing... and Imu or someone he knows possesses it? Magellan type of shit?

[full merlin]

Yeah but not being able to have curiosity and temptation is a major limit of freedom. Especially curiosity

[digital tapir]

don’t we see imu taking on the form of some creature tho

[manic lichen]

then why was there a freedom-fruit to begin with???
Vegapunk clearly said that fruits are manifestations of people's desires

[full merlin]

Wdym? why wouldn’t there be a freedom fruit? It seems like the most primordial wish/desire

[last estuary]

I mean, God let them have their way aside from eating the foirbidden fruit... I see where you're going with this though

[manic lichen]

could be similar to Luffy's, no visible differences

@full merlin if it was a desire then how was it Eden??

[digital tapir]

i don’t think any of the fruits are that conceptual tho

[deft prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/Soul_StormOP/status/1788622156873564196 huh

[full merlin]

Luffys seems to be tho. Nika is the very idea of freedom and freeing people with a smile. At least that’s how vegapunk described it I’m pretty sure

And @manic lichen I’m not trying to be obtuse but what’s the conflict between Eden and no desire? If you’re saying people wouldn’t have any desire in Eden, then I’d agree in the original texts but that’d be a very oda twist on Eden imo. I don’t think odas point will be that Eden was a perfect place

[digital tapir]

nika is a physical god/representation of a god who maybe embodies those ideas, but is very much capable of being a tangible thing

the concept of freedom itself? how do you make that tangible?

[manic lichen]

you are not getting my point, desire of "freedom" and "liberation" is usually brought from sufferings, if that were the case then "Eden" shouldn't be possible

[full merlin]

Another theory I want to throw out there from this chapter is that the nika fruit gets stronger through collective belief. Now that we know the void century starts with the birth of joyboy, why else would the government want any mention of joyboy and nika gone

And @digital tapir Im not saying that it’s literally the freedom freedom fruit, just that if the fruits come from wishes than the idea of wishing for a being to come into being to free you seems primordial

[full merlin]

My point is that similar to the biblical Eden, even though it was mostly a paradise, there were very specific limitations that maybe people didn’t want ei. Being able to eat a Devil fruits or knowledge. But that’s a good point and you might be right

[digital tapir]

an interesting concept but i don’t think it really works, atm the fruit is super powerful and there’s only marginal amounts of believers. for that to be true, it would mean luffy has the ability to be FAR more powerful than anyone in the series, when he’s already essentially at the top

and yeah, fair enough, relatively plausible

[deft prawn]

https://twitter.com/GShinobiz/status/1788616643515494906/photo/2 what if the cover of chapter 472 is core to understand the ancestral weapons? there is the mother flame, low right is poseidon, and the other two are uranus and pluton?

[split hollow]

inb4 enel comes back and stomps gorosei

[distant slate]

makes you wonder if VP visited weatheria to learn about climate/weather control to learn how to create things like the AC system, bubble tech and even motherflame..

[full merlin]

That’s actually a really good point. Power scaling wish it seems odd, even if luffy has to get stronger before the end of the series.

Although until we know the power of end of story Blackbeard and Imu it’s hard to say. They could be insane broken too, and even if it’s super broken if Blackbeard is the final antagonist it wouldn’t matter as luffy could only use haki

[deft prawn]

cover of 442 has a skull and bones hat that reminds me of vegapunk lol

[full merlin]

Id say this makes me wonder about the opposite. If wetheria had some information about the void century but since all do is keep to themselves and don’t go digging for joyboy lore they’re safe

Anyway I need to go eat breakfast since it’s almost three and haven’t eaten. Good one piece chapters almost got me fasting haha. But thanks for chatting everyone it was really fun!

[little hill]

devil fruits are made of advanced technology

[heady hazel]

my personal theory for how the gorosei can regenerate limbs atleast saturn im guessing a previous user of the ope ope no mi made him immortal

[last estuary]

No, it only grants you eternal youth afaik

[heady hazel]

oh ok]

[digital tapir]

i feel like that wouldn’t make sense cause how are they manipulating age and time and turning people into gods

[little hill]

advanced tech could simply change the molecules in your body and re-structure them into different atoms entirely changing the properties of your body

[last estuary]

Maybe you're right if the fruit is explored further, but currently not possible... Saturn could have had the surgery alongside the other gorosei and Imu, given that Imu is one of the first 20, and the gorosei (mainly Saturn) hasn't aged a day since GV

[digital tapir]

brother how is that just gonna turn you into a time machine

[little hill]

bro idk people with enough brainpower and will in the show can just summon lightning with their mind using conquerors haki, and seeing time travel in fiction is super common with advanced tech

if a base human in one piece can think hard enough and make other people faint and crack holes in ships with their mental aura and capacity alone with conqueror's haki, I don't think it would be far stretched to say that enhancing their innate abilities could easily lead to reality bending capacities which are seen in devil fruits. now all im saying is this could be done artificially and may have been created in the forgotten century before everything fell off. and we even have smile fruits in modern one piece, which are in beta design in a world full of pirates that halt advanced technological development

[digital tapir]

smile fruits are all replications though, no one has successfully replicated a devil fruit artificially

also if you’re talking about haki being an innate ability why can’t devil fruits also simply occur in nature

also aren’t we told that devil fruits inhabit a new fruit somewhere in the world when the previous user dies? doesn’t seem like a technological feature

[west summit]

Mother flame is vegapunk trying to copy the sun

Oda is very well aware of the world technology and issue (that's why he brings up the world is sinking), some countries in real life tried to make a miniature sun, for energy purpose. The same with vegapunk, he tried to man made the mother flame, an everlasting and renewable energy, now if think what is the mother of all flame? It's the sun, it's a self sufficient energy source.

And guess who is the sun god? Luffy aka nika, I believe the mother flame is one way Luffy could actually damage the gorosei being that they are immortal. Even in the last panel we could see Luffy is still trying to damage the worm.

How would Luffy use the real mother flame power? There's two way I suppose, one way is through the iron giant and the other is by Luffy owns attack, if you recall Luffy able to produce flame on his attack, like red rock, red hawk etc, oda can plant this move to twist it like when the gum gum fruit turned out actually to be a Zoan fruit.

Will update this later

[last estuary]

Motherflame is him trying to recreate the energy source which powered up the iron giant

[digital tapir]

i think you gotta consider a couple things:

sanji is also able to produce fire in his attacks. really the explanation might simply be people can just do that

we can’t assume luffy’s fruit has been planned to be nika since the time he started using red roc and such. it’s been a while, and the nika stuff seems like it was made much later

[west summit]

Yes Sanji, king and other people able to create fire with their moves as well, but I believe luffy fire attack would eventually be different, the move evolved if you will. And believe me oda might've planned for the Nika fruit since the end of paramount war, there's no way of knowing he's never plan this from the start

[last estuary]

You're right about people able to generate fire. Another example would be Kinemon and his foxfire technique. Doesn't necessarily has to be a "move" because Kinemon generated fire to cauterise Kiku's wound.

[green saffron]

Fire is kinda just a thing a lot of characters can use so it makes sense for luffy to use it. Also, if luffy could use mother flame level fire attacks, we would of seen it considering the mother flame can eliminate islands

[leaden roost]

void century joyboy made pact with sun god nika to get powers and explore beyond the earth and for some reason imu and the other succesors of the 3 earth gods (god of rain - ocean, god of land, god of forrest) got together to fight him. Joyboy loses and one way or another joyboy is able to take his powers and devide them up into devil fruits so that his power can be inherited by everyone in the world and people can start to truly be free. That is why they are called "devil" fruits and the reason the ocean is rising is to take all the "betrayers" out. Also the gorosei represent the others planets of the solar system. So its kinda like the sun vs the solar system. heres wheere there actualy starts to be some substance: In the story of icarus and daeldus, they create wings to escape crete. What if earth is Crete, and the will of d refers to will of daedalus, meaning to escape the earth???? to add a little bit onto this icarus even used the wings to fly to the sun, but go to close and ended up sinking INTO THE OCEAN?!??! i mean what could be more ambitious than for luffys true goal to be to escape the earth? its obviously a broken theory (I havnt given it much thought), but i genuinly think there might be something there

[last estuary]

Mother flame is the fuel/ energy source

[west summit]

Be patient my child

[green saffron]

Yea

[digital tapir]

there’s so much like reeeeaching conjecture here why would we not be aware of the other gods if they were a factor? there would at least be 3 notably strong people who would take the role of the successors if that were a thing and we haven’t seen anything to make such a connection

y’all are gonna be so disappointed when the will of d is just like will of davy and it’s just joyboy’s name

[tranquil island]

Fire in the hole!

[little hill]

ngl it could be, it's like uploading your intellect to the internet in real life terms, vs uploading your conciousness to a fruit basically with advanced technology with different molecular structures, which would allow your will to travel in a non physical capacity. it lines up with haki to an extent. and the point with smile fruits is that devil fruits are proven to have a level of association with science as even if they are replicas they work to a level of functionality that is not the same but it still functions as a devil fruit to an extent, we've also seen blackbeard bypass the so called "1 devil fruit" rule that states it'll destroy your soul which probably had something to do with science, also you're saying it's probably naturally occurring but how many naturally occurring things like devil fruits exist in the one piece world in terms of powers or just the way they work in the sense of them transferring from one person to another that are natural and not man-made

[digital tapir]

not impossible but i feel like that’s just way more steps then simply assuming they’re naturally occurring and come from some sort of existing power, like the steps you’d need to go through for it to assign to itself to a matching fruit when the user dies seems very unlikely

and i think the point of the smiles is to show you really can’t just replicate the fruits with technology,

[little hill]

secondly if the sea is natural why would it hate devil fruits? it only hates devil fruits because devil fruits are unnatural, now another take could be that they actually come from spiritual beings like devils or angels but I don't think that's the case, as we've seen most individuals in OP history considered to be above humans or mythical figures turn out to be normal human beings with enhanced capabilities, for example joy boy or enel. fruits legit grow off water but technology hates water

[digital tapir]

also there’s plenty of strange naturally occurring things in one piece
sulong forms, haki, lunarian fire, etc etc

[digital tapir]

we don’t know that it hates devil fruits, we don’t know why they get weaker at all
could even be something like a base to am acid where it simply stabilizes and deactivates it

[little hill]

there are a lot of strange things, but outside of haki we've come to discover most of the strange things have something to do with technology, or things that occured in the world due to the misuse of advanced technology like weapons used to destroy islands. the ancient weapons etc are mostly technology too. even the big fish we see arent like flying around they're just really huge fish that are powerful because of their massive size. they aren't like mythical creatures they're pretty natural, the world just seems messed up because of human temperment and haki also seems to be connected to purely humans as well, although it's not technological

[digital tapir]

one of the ancient weapons is a giant mermaid lady who summons sea monsters

[little hill]

so a mermaid fish-human hybrid that calls monsters to fight for her, nah in one piece they are im saying nothing in OP world that occurs naturally points to devil fruits being a purely natural occurence

[digital tapir]

you’re assuming mermaids aren’t naturally occuring

[little hill]

the literal closest thing we have to devil fruits in the one piece world is science on things like the clones we've seen of dracule mihawk and the warlords, alongside the smilefruits etc. mermaids could just be evolutionary as well as fishmen. we also saw in the skypiea arc people were gassing a island in the sky like it couldn't exist, and treating enel like a god just to find out he was a regular dude with a lightning df, although his observation haki was indeed elite enough to convince them of that so it made sense

[digital tapir]

those are all recent thing that exist to mimic the power of devil fruits, really nothing we’ve seen shows that they aren’t naturally occurring, it still remains true that there are weird powers and abilities that exist naturally independent of devil fruits and there’s no reason to assume that devil fruits are any different
idk how the mermaids being evolutionary goes against what i said
and i don’t know how enel disputes anything i’ve said either

[little hill]

bro you said I was assuming that I was assuming that mermaids weren't naturally occuring? and I said that they are lmao. Enel simply adds onto my point that in the one piece world it is a common trend for things to seem unexplainable or unfathomable, simply for the mysteries to end up as things that were possible without 'magic' essentially, and we've seen this pattern repeat itself again and again for nearly everything that is unexplainable including the 'lost history' that nobody knows anything about, most of it seems to be around technology.

and like also what makes this make even more sense, is how does haki just make a person hit a lightning and the other person feels it, I'm pretty sure it's like I stated before the devil fruit is like uploading your conciousness into the internet but not rlly, replace internet with the 'devil fruit net' which would essentially be an artifical storage. Which is also why when people with devil fruits transform into elements they're still people, because their body(or soul) still exists but their physical properties and molecules are simply manipulated by means we have yet to understand

[little hill]

this would also explain how souls are apparently held in devil fruits even after the user dies, and the 'soul' of the fruit just goes into another fruit which transforms it into a devil fruit

[digital tapir]

i was trying to clarify your point, i don’t see how shirahoshi does anything but support what i’m saying

and no, enel simply represents a break from traditional values, he took over by manipulating them using their beliefs but nothing there points to technology, in fact when has technology ever been the explanation for the things that happen in one piece without the preface that it’s new technology?

you’re also just saying molecules would be manipulated but 1) there’s no proof that can be done 2) the amount of reaching it takes to make that work is hardly any different from just explaining it as magic. you can’t just say it’s technology and then just try and tack an explanation on to the way we already understand things to work (naturally occurring “magic” sources) and say that that explains it. you’re not really giving an explanation for how it works, you’re just replacing the idea of a “soul” or a “will” or whatever being the force behind devil fruits with “idk they just make it work with technology”.

[little hill]

and haki probably bypasses this because haki has something to do with life itself and the will of living things so they're able to interact specifically with the artifical devil fruits molecular shift and hit the person's [artificially warped] soul whereas if someone used haki on a real lightning bolt they'd just hit the lightning bolt. because the lightning bolt doesn't have a soul in comparison to the changed devil fruit user. that's the only way it makes sense. And you're saying all of this occurs naturally, and I say there's absolutely no way all of this occurs naturally as nothing close to this happens anywhere in the one piece world naturally.

you said "nothing we've seen shows that they aren't naturally occurring" but we've had great hints with smile fruits being artifically generated, we have no 'angel fruits' or 'demon fruits' that occured naturally, the only close thing we've seen to devil fruits are artifical, and not natural. so there is indeed more evidence pointing that they are artificial in comparison to natural if we compare the 2. for the record with artificial we have: smile fruits + the ability to replicate devil fruits as well as human beings and their abilities like dracule mihawk, natural we have: devil fruits just exist and nothing else remotely similar to them exists

[little hill]

no preface of new technology but had something done with technology? The void century. Definition of technology:
the application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes, especially in industry: just to clarify. All technology is not electricity and super computers. It's simply the application of knowledge about the world for practical purposes, FOR EXAMPLE. application of knowledge about the one piece world and the ability that sky islands exist, AND THEN utilizing them to live on as a people. THAT IS technology. or developing bikes to traverse the clouds based upon the knowledge that they are traversal. Enel using his devil fruit to monitor the people with his observation haki is technology because he's using information that others did not know about the world in an advanced way that he designed to use in his own particular way

its like one nation building a boat and crossing the sea, whereas the other nation does not know how to build boats, therefore does not cross the sea. one nation is simply more technologically advanced than the other because of their use of acquired knowledge to their benefit. just because the nation didnt build wires using electricity doesn't mean that they didn't have a technological advantage. skypiea is the perfect example of this. it was a naturally occuring thing with sky islands that people just didn't know about, so they assumed because there was no 'logical' explanation that it didn’t exist. in reality they were just unaware of how their world works, whereas the skypieans and enel were not.

[olive jolt]

yo i came here thinking he was cooking he was serving a damn banquet

[digital tapir]

smile fruits are copying devil fruits, and they fail at it
they’re literally just copying something that exists organically, and you’re saying the thing that exists organically must ALSO be technology, and then using smile fruits as evidence
this is just circular logic, there is no support for your argument, just baseless conjecture

and you say we haven’t seen anything close to devil fruits naturally

1. why would we? they’re the premiere power of the one piece universe, why would we see something similar when they already exist? you’re ignoring the other inexplicable natural powers that aren’t quite on the level of devil fruits, but why would we expect them to be if devil fruits are already the highest power? 2) we have no confirmation the gorosei have devil fruits, it’s very possible we already have seen similar powers beyond the devil fruits themselves

and the seraphim are only able to use devil fruit powers because they are created with blood(maybe i remember it being blood wrong, definitely some biological component tho) of existing devil fruit users

so for the record we have
artificial: smile (failed copies), seraphim (using devil fruits)
natural: literally every non-df ability we’ve seen (kinemon’s fire? sulong forms? haki? you can’t just say yeah those are natural but devil fruits couldn’t possibly be, they literally prove other powers exist)

[little hill]

circular logic just to come up with "they're the premiere power" and "they already exist". The non-df abilities we've seen are just natural, like bro sulong forms are just what happens to the animal people when it turns night time and that's their natural response. They just used it at the right time for war. kinemon's fire is absolutely nowhere close to changing an entire human body to fire while retaining the person's conciousness that was transformed. and like i said but you've seemed to ignore it; smile fruits are objectively the closest thing to devil fruits and they ARE artificial. if devil fruits are natural, they should have something close or similar to them that ARE natural. the closest thing you came up with was kinemon's fire and haki.

and if devil fruits are completely natural than why can non-living beings consume them? you don't even have to be alive to gain the properties of a devil fruit, this is what I was stating before about how devil fruits have some type of artifical storage which also explains how people are concious without actually being in their human state with their brain being there

[digital tapir]

yes, but that’s just discussing the meaning of the word technology lol
you’re just saying that because we don’t know how it works it COULD be done with technology
sure, but the technology it would take, since we DO understand how things work more than some ancient nation, is insanely precise and beyond the capacities of what we’ve seen in one piece
you’re talking about manipulating atoms (when has that been shown to be possible) to recreate abilities that we’ve never seen possible without devil fruit or with any other technology
you’re saying they can just give people the ability to time travel on the molecular level, yet we haven’t even seen time travel be possible regularly
you’re saying that just because we don’t KNOW that it’s NOT possible for technology far more advanced than anything we’ve seen to be used ONLY for the making of devil fruits (because when else have we seen anything to that degree?), it could be the case. it could. but it would take a leap in logic far beyond what’s sensible

[little hill]

beyond the capacities is technically a stretch, we've seen devil fruits be replicated which is pretty darn close... and this is with the absence of potentially thousands of years of research in a world full of pirates... being done by literally 2 people working on it which is just like vegapunk and caesar i think...

and yes it is a big leap, but it objectively would have to be, considering how different devil fruits are from the rest of the one piece world that's the only logical explanation... as well as the trend of everything having reason behind it and some type of purpose although it may not seem like it at first in terms of the story as a whole

[digital tapir]

if the NON df abilities can by natural, why can’t the df? smile fruits only come marginally close because it took every bit of knowledge and experimentation to even come somewhat close to what ALREADY EXISTED. and you’re saying to come up with something close to devil fruits if they’re natural but why would i need to do that? you’re arguing that the strongest power in the universe isn’t natural and telling me to come up with something else that is, yet you won’t accept my arguments because they’re not the literal strongest power in the universe??

[little hill]

bro, you aren't getting the point, you're saying it's natural, bro if its completely natural then it should have something that's natural just like it. i'll give you examples IN THE ONE piece verse. I don't understand how just because its the 'strongest' its immune to the laws of every other natural thing. for trees there are grass. for horses there are camels. for humans there are fishmen. for water there is air. for devil fruits there is nothing else similar to them naturally IN the one piece world, except for artifical things and haki which only have to do WITH HUMANS

[digital tapir]

vegapunk literally was able to (unsuccessfully! it was not a perfect copy!) copy the devil fruit by using the lineage factor of someone who had literally eaten that devil fruit, he didmt make it from scratch, he just copied what already existed

[green roost]

i have a theory: so nika is an actual elbaf myth, and also stretched, and joyboy is different, he was LIKE nika, aka the first person who awakened the nika fruit
but i think nika also existed
before the void century
ancient ancient time
humans used to have powers because they came from space, but over time thru evolution lost those powers, so they created devil fruits to capture that essence again

[digital tapir]

and you’re making the same argument, i don’t think you realize that
you’re saying that they were able to pull these powers we see nowhere else out of thing air because science
it’s the same argument, but with the roundabout addition that it has to be science and can not be something natural in the world of one piece
i just think that’s a reach, we’ve seen plenty of weird things that DO occur naturally, and i think it makes no sense to assume that devil fruits work any differently

[green roost]

there is some kind of connection to space and beings who came from there, and during a time when nika actually existed, who knows, maybe powers were natural to those space beings, but then humans evolved and some evolved into fishmen, some evolved into long arm tribes etc, so then the gene pools got mixed and powers were lost thru generations slowly, the ancient kingdom studied their own history and became aware of this so created DF's to capture their ancestral essence

[little hill]

we have seen plenty of weird things that occur naturally, but nothing CLOSE to the level of devil fruits. So saying that it's devil fruits is a greater stretch. The most logical and closest thing we have to reason is that devil fruits have something to do with humans, because we've seen humans be capable of things that are purely abnormal: seeing in the future, creating cracks in ships because of conquerors haki(which is just thinking hard enough or wanting something bad enough?; which is essentially changing reality purely based upon will) and armament haki, and making animals feint etc. Devil fruits are obviously associated with something in relation to humans, and not just the natural world although they can affect non-living beings, and I've already pointed out how haki which is used by humans affects devil fruit users not in human state, despite haki not having the same effect on purely natural elements

if devil fruits are completely natural, why is a devil fruit's state of flame able to be punched, whereas a natural flame cannot simply be punched. Why does haki which is generally associated with humans and/or beings with intellect that would therefore be able to tamper with the world around them, affect devil fruits in such a way that it does not with the natural world.

[little hill]

the manipulation and use of already human characteristics, which seem to already be reality-bending, time-travelling to see the future, or awkward with physics in relation to our natural world in terms of force coming out of absolutely nowhere to stun enemies or animals, to an artifical level to further boost these abnormally yet naturally-occuring human abilities seems very plausible with the use of advanced knowledge; for example technology

[digital tapir]

you’re literally just making a massive leap in logic because we don’t understand why haki works
if devil fruit powers are possible through technology, why would we not have technology capable of doing the things devil fruits do? where are the time machines? the guns that turn people into dolls? the drugs that make people immortal?

you’re asking me for evidence these things exist in the world and yet providing no proof they exist in technology

you can’t just say it works because of humans. what about the gun that becomes alive with a devil fruit? why is it any different to assume that devil fruits inhabit some soul or will through forces only explicable in the one piece universe, as some representation of the limits of imagination or something? i’m telling you you’re making the same argument to me i’m presenting to you, you’re only assuming that devil fruits don’t natural occur. we’re never given any reason to believe that’s the case.

[olive jolt]

this channel looking like akainu vs aokiji fr

[little hill]

I'm not making the same argument, because unlike you I have things that actually are relative to devil fruits in the artifical world. And in terms of the gun becoming alive I've already told you about the 'devil fruit net' and used the comparison of uploading your consciousness to the internet which we can see being attempted to be done in real time, I don't know how many times I have to say it I have multiple things that are close to devil fruits artifically including smile fruits and haki which make no sense, and all you have is kinemon's flame. I'm saying I have more supporting evidence for my argument than you do for yours

[snow herald]

Next chapters cover story: Steve Vs raskult. Full colour spread

[little hill]

In terms of the debate I just feel like I got the stronger case, I've pointed out abnormalities in humans in the verse in terms of reality bending with things like seeing in the future, changing reality even if its slightly based upon will and want alone, which sounds awkwardly close to how devil fruits work in general, and armament haki. I've also pointed out humans developing smile fruits, even if they are replicas. The natural one piece world's closest thing to the abnormal case of devil fruits is, I guess kinemon's fire ability.

[digital tapir]

what indication do we have that’s possible? vegapunk has tried something similar to uploading his consciousness, sure, but that’s at the very pinnacle of human knowledge and experimentation, why would we assume he can go a thousand steps further and upload data that gives people inexplicable powers and somehow finds its way to inanimate objects? these are not close to the same thing. you are making up a miraculous “devil fruit net” to help fill the gaps of your reaching, but we’ve seen no indication that’s even possible. your evidence is something nowhere close to that

so you’re saying the only evidence you have is smile fruits? the complete failures that don’t even manage to do what devil fruits do? haki is literally a naturally occrpurring thing, dunno how that helps you. saying it makes no sense to brush it off does not support your argument lol

you do not have more evidence, the only pieces of technology that you claim can do what devil fruits do are failures that tried to copy devil fruits. smiles basically just give people horrible mutations. the devil fruit copy needed a devil fruit to work. you have no evidence of anything that comes close to a devil fruit ability in technology that doesn’t literally try and FAIL to replicate what devil fruits do. you can’t claim that as any real evidence and then just say i have no evidence because there’s no 1:1 thing in nature that does exactly what devil fruits do
why would there be, anyway? would it make sense from a writing standpoint to have people with devil fruit abilities and people with the same abilities that didn’t eat devil fruits? they are a vessel for the power system of one piece, they’d be made redundant if that was the case

[little hill]

If I was in court I feel like this would be a uninamous jury vote. One argument is some random trees just came about because they're the strongest in the verse, and they can change the form of beings whilst somehow also maintaining their consciousness naturally, and kinemon's flame is proof that this too is also possible. The other argument is that they are artificial and obviously vastly different from the natural world, and humans are most likely the intellectual beings within the verse that caused them. With advanced technology and development, we could see a possibility of generating force from nowhere, changing reality, and changing the physical form, as we've seen with haki but in a less barbaric way, with the use of devil fruits, a smarter application of the human abilities in the one piece world.

[little hill]

You have to remember that vegapunk actually cloned his conciousness into 5 different vegapunks, not perfectly but different parts of it into 5 different robots. and he's one scientist. The only other scientist that we know of working at this level is caesar, and he's his rival. So they aren't even working together. These are 2 scientists, and devil fruits could have been developed through the thousands of years of hundreds of thousands of scientists developing them with knowledge about the one piece world.

[digital tapir]

your argument hinges on their being technology capable of doing what devil fruits do (that are not literally trying to copy devil fruits oh my god), which you have presented none, and then saying that human advancement can make changes to the physical world, but only using something naturally occurring (haki) as an example for how this is done
you’re trying to apply normal logic to a shonen world but it’s funny that your argument is that they’d just pull the technology to do things far beyond human capability out of nowhere

[little hill]

Vegapunk actually showed us that consciousness transfer is possible, well not actually transferring consciousness, but transferring something similar to consciousness. Which is similar to what devil fruits do.

[digital tapir]

YES it is possible for that to happen but we have seen no evidence of technology capable of doing that
where are the time travel devices? have you seen a robot that can do what perona does with her fruit? you’re arguing that they COULD have done this with technology waaaaay more advanced than anything we’ve seen
i could say they made a device that blew up the moon and then replaced it with another fake moon after
where’s my evidence they did that though? why jump through the hoops to reach that conclusion?

[little hill]

Applying normal logic kind-of-sort of works because the fictional world is somewhat based upon reality. You also have to understand and I've pointed this out, the human capabilities within one piece are absolutely nothing short of abnormal. Armament haki coating out of absolutely thin air. Generating force enough to knock people unconcious and shake/move the environment out of absolutely THIN AIR. Being able to see the future makes absolutely ZERO sense. Human beings in one piece breaking [normal] rules of reality are the closest thing we have to devil fruits in the one piece verse, in comparison TO ANY OTHER natural thing in the one piece world, which points to devil fruits being artificial and not just natural

[digital tapir]

you’re saying human beings can see the future and make their skin as hard as metal, and then saying devil fruits aren’t naturally occurring don’t make sense logically lol

[little hill]

Like I said, I have more supporting evidence for artifical than you do for natural. Time travel? we have observation haki seeing into the future. transferring consciousness? We've seen vegapunk do something roughly similar with his robots. making force out of thin air? we've seen this with conqueror's haki. They aren't necessarily the same, but once again they are closer than ANY comparisons the natural one piece world has to offer

[little hill]

I'm saying that humans can do all of these things, yes. And I'm also stating that they do all of these things because they are alive, and because of their intellect. FISHMEN can also use haki. trees CAN NOT use haki because they are not intellectually capable of doing so. Therefore humans or any intellectual being within the one piece verse(which seems to not be fruits unless they're artificially tampered with by intellectual BEINGS hint smile fruits) have to be the genesis of any other thing in the verse also having these unnatural properties.

and like I said before, vegapunk and caesar are the most 2 advanced scientists, and there's only 2 of them. And vegapunk already discovered how to replicate devil fruits, and to an extent transfer his conciousness even if it was split into different personalities. This is highly possible if we consider there being potentially thousands of scientists that are actually working together with knowledge of the verse that isn't being gatekept from them by the government, and multiple generations of passing down information and knowledge. we've literally SEEN the world government contemplate destroying ALL of punk records but they couldn't because it would directly hurt themselves.

[digital tapir]

what DEVICE is capable of time travel? you’re literally saying that i have no evidence for devil fruits being natural but your evidence for them being artificial is something that literally happens naturally? i’m not sure how you don’t see how silly that looks
transferring consciousness isn’t really a devil fruit power, maybe a part of law’s thing ig? that really doesn’t explain where the powers come from because that’s not even close the full scope of his fruit’s powers. as for that being how devil fruits work, huh? how is relaying your mind into satellite bodies the same as putting inexplicable powers into random fruits? how do the powers become data, how does it find the fruits, how does it put itself in the fruit? how does the person get it from the fruit?
what is making force out of thin air applicable to? 1) i don’t think haki does this 2) even if that were a part of a df ability, that’s no different from saying that because fire exists they can make fruits that let you turn into and shoot fire. where are the steps you’re skipping?
these aren’t even close to explaining devil fruits
at least if you assume they occur naturally by means that are basically magic, you can explain the ability to literally send people through time, there’s not a scrap of technological advancement that is shown to be capable of that

[little hill]

We've seen humans quite literally see into the future.... and conqueror's haki is a massive force that is not created by kinetic energy.... devil fruit users can create massive forces(for example quake quake) that are not generated by kinetic energy. These are similarities. My point is that there is supporting evidence for them being artificial and there is seemingly a possibility that this is the case. Whereas there is seemingly NO supporting evidence that devil fruits occurred completely naturally and we know this because there can be drawn absolutely no comparison from devil fruits and other naturally occurring phenomena within the one piece verse... There is an argument to be made for one side, and there is no argument to be made for the opposite end of the spectrum, therefore the most reasonable approach would be to assume that the side with more supporting evidence and/or potential is true

[digital tapir]

humans and intelligent beings ARE unnatural properties, i don’t see what you’re trying to say here? weird shit happens in one piece’s world, there’s literally an island that floats in the sky because of a giant vertical stream
you can’t just say that unnatural things happen because of intelligent beings. that’s a given. if you’re saying that because humans are intrinsically abnormal in the one piece world, why ignore that the whole world is pretty abnormal?

[little hill]

Not just unnatural things, I said unnatural things in terms of - force coming out of absolutely nowhere kinetically, and the ability to somehow interact with or even perceive a time that has not yet occurred. these are all purely connected to humans and absolutely nothing else in the one piece world. If you generalize the statement it makes things blurry. I'm not saying EVERY unnatural thing happened because of intellectual beings. Secondly, I didn't say that humans were intrinsically abnormal, but that they were intrinsically abnormal in terms of their ABILITIES in comparison to the rest of the one piece world's natural state. and we know this because of haki, armament, conqueror's and kenbonshoku quite literally involving time travel. this is seen absolutely nowhere else. it would be natural if it were just kept to humans BUT

[digital tapir]

but we haven’t SEEN any technology even remotely close to being capable of that
you’re replacing magic with science and not explaining how they get from point A to point B
i could say i can create a device that makes my orange give me the ability to breathe fire
but how? where is the indication i can make that device? where is the indication i can synthesize the ability to create fire?

[little hill]

It would become artificial if it were applied to normal fruits, the capabilities of producing force out of thin air, coating things, and/or the ability to perceive/interact with the future. The thing with the example of the orange is that the orange already exists, we're just trying to prove whether you created it, or whether it came to be out of nowhere. and the issue is you don't know the full extent of your capabilities because you don't have the full knowledge of what your ancestors knew or could have developed.

->So the orange that can give you the ability to breathe fire exists. There is absolutely nothing similar to it in nature that occurs naturally, the closest thing you could find was a waterfall that was upside down, however that didn't immediately change the properties of the world around it. However you have the capability to change the properties of naturally occuring things, like hey you could change an orange to where it makes your skin green because of certain components you put into it. Now, if you were to advance a little more, you could potentially make the orange make you breathe fire, however, in a million years you'd probably never just see that fire giving orange just drop from a tree.<- Therefore, you assume that the fire breathing orange was developed by an intellectual being like you, that was simply more advanced than you, however you have no knowledge of when this happened, or how it happened. and you also have no knowledge of the full capacity of the natural world, as you don't know why the hell the waterfall was upside down to this day. But you can still make the orange turn your skin green. Now with this information, it's more logical to come to the conclusion that another intellectual being probably did something to the orange to make it different than all the others through the use of technology, which is application of the natural world in a way to benefit an individual or group.

The issue that makes everything blurry is, you aren't close to their level of ingenuity, so you aren't sure whether it's in the realm of possiblity or not. It's like cavemen wondering whether humans could fly if they put enough rocks together, or tried to swing their arms fast enough.

And I agree, it's definitely a [stretch] and not just something I can come with outright confidence and say, is the absolute truth which is why it's definitely a theory. But what I'm saying is it has some capacity to be true and some supporting evidence. There could be some completely different explanation for devil fruits and how they came about

But at the same time, there's also just about 0 good explanations for how devil fruits exist, or how they work, aside from the fact that they just do. and this seems to be a reasonably solid theory and the closest thing we have to reason all things considered, especially considering the fact that they interact with humans completely different than natural elements do

[digital tapir]

you’re literally just saying that because the one piece world has these unnatural abilities, people can also somehow synthesize other abilities into a fruit vessel for a human to gain the powers. you give no indication of how they get from A) no weird abilities in a fruit to B) they literally send the ability to turn the ground into mochi into an orange over wi-fi
you are then just ignoring everything i point out about how weird shit occurs in the one piece world naturally (why is it possible to see the future and create force through haki NATURALLY, but devil fruits cannot grant people the ability to do other physically inexplicable things naturally as well?), and then saying that that actually supports your argument that they pull some miracle science to synthesize the ability to swim through the ground into an apple by creating the ability to swim through the ground (haven’t seen without a df) through SCIENCE (this is magic. explain how it works, or it’s still magic even if you call it science) and transmitting that (we haven’t seen that. we’ve seen consciousness relayed into empty robot bodies through what is essentially a computer built around vegapunk’s brain. this is very impressive, very high tech. not the same as creating an ability that doesn’t exist and sending it to a form of the internet that doesn’t exist either. vegapunk’s satellites do NOT support this idea) into an existing organic fruit (how does it go into the fruit? a fruit is not a computer body built for relaying synthesized memory information. you can’t just send a text into your banana because the internet exists), and then a person eats it and gains this ability (why can’t we give them abilities directly (another unexplained step)
you have nothing but conjecture and yet you like try and claim “i’m right, you’re wrong”

which is funny because i’ve said you totally could be right. the only issue is the technology claim, with the extent of technology we’ve seen, is hardly duffferemt from calling it magic because we haven’t seen anything GENUINELY (not some weak, lose connection you try to string, you’re skipping MANY steps in your logic of how the technology works)close being possible. you do not have any real evidence. we are both trying to provide explanations for how a fictional world grants impossible powers. we do not have any existing logic in the one piece world that actually makes it make sense without it essentially being magic. at the end of the day, poorly defined “technology” and “science” as devices to explain how the impossible is made possible is the same as magic

there already exists poorly explained things that are impossible in real logic (haki, the fire)
the devil fruits don’t have to be any different. it’s a shonen manga.

[rocky anvil]

i think that

[digital tapir]

all messages should be limited to like ten words yeah

[rocky anvil]

Luffy isn't dying do to gear 5 he is becoming more ached to it soo its going to get harder and harder to un transform form from gear 5

[little hill]

The thing is though, that makes what you said somehow support my argument even more, is that aside from haki, I don't think we've actually really seen just 'magic' in one piece. Aside from haki if you consider that magic. Aside from deviations like fishmen and mermaid, which although are different from reality, with slight deviations could exist through proper evolution and biological design. And towards the start of the discussion I did create an outline for how it could possibly work. Being able to change atoms at a molecular level to change the properties of things in existence themselves. for Example, changing water into air by changing H20, to splitting them apart, and potentially reorganizing them to create a different structure. And as I said, the 'devil fruit net' would make this possible, which would be something similar to the 'internet' that isn't necessarily physical, but another means of information exchange, which would have to do with what could be assumed to be [souls] that carry a [will] even after death, which also explains how non-living things are able to consume devil fruits and then gain consciousness. Reorganizing molecular structures. This could be done with the same force used to crack ships using conqueror's haki, just used at a way smaller scale to re-organize molecules, and "change reality"

in terms of in verse devil fruit net supporting evidence, the closest thing I have is a drawn image of a devil fruit with angel wings which seems to indicate that devil fruits do exist in some fashion after death, and that they potentially can even die with the user https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P99FFNVBmg but are 'reborn' in the [soul] system which makes up the 'devil fruit net'

We've also heard I believe the gorosei state that the nika nika had been attempting to seemingly escape their grasp, for many years, now a hole in my explanation that I can acknowledge is explaining just how humans would actually put these capabilities into a fruit, but my response to that would be the same way they designed smile fruits but better, and yes without devil fruits as a basis well then how would we design smile fruits? well then it becomes a chicken and the egg loop. and this is why it would be a theory. we just have to theorize that humans came up with the idea and decided to design them in the first place, presumably because they probably wanted cool powers.

Now what could possibly help my argument more is if I were able to research more on how smile fruits are actually created, and the entire replication process of devil fruits. Are they completely designing the smile fruits from the ground up similarly to the devil fruits, or taking apart of the devil fruit and attempting to clone it based upon nothing they know, but simply just grabbing the genetic information of the devil fruit and trying to replicate it. If they're building smile fruits from the ground up based upon what they know of devil fruits I'd have a stronger case, if they're just copy pasting and failing miserably, well then my case would be the same

[little hill]

I feel like this is kind of a bad explanation, I'm saying it's like seeing a really well built ship, and you either just steal parts of the ship and the ones that you're missing you replace with some of your own wood. OR instead of stealing parts of the ship, you see the ship and start your own model replica using absolutely NO parts of the other ship, but just the concept that you see infront of you

[digital tapir]

you can’t say aside from haki. it fundamentally proves that some things are not just technology, and that impossible things can be done through abilities latent in nature. if you want to be uncharitable and say i have no argument, explain why people can just do that

yes, some things can theoretically be done in science to make effects that wouldn’t seem natural. however, there are rules to that. even if you assume that it’s even possible to do any of that in physics (lol), it’s absolutely stretching physics to its limit. you can say that they can reorganize molecules to make water move
sure, how? how do they control the molecules? how do they give the ability to control molecules of water to the fruit? oh, of course, they control more molecules, how could i be so silly. oh, and giving that ability to humans? controlling molecules! how could i have possibly missed that? this is just like in chapter 917 when luffy found the water molecule changing device and split the sea, of course

i mean, come on. we’ve seen no indication of molecular augmentation being done, and yet you want so say it can be used to allow people to gain the ability to summon ice from the under world? to separate your soul from your body and use it to scout the area? (wow, a soul? those exist in the one piece world? imagine that) and also do this remotely? and be transferred into a regular piece of fruit and again into a person? just because you can say they had all this time and they could have had a super team of scientists , doesn’t mean that there’s any proof that is true and they could make this a real thing. we haven’t seen this be possible anywhere. i don’t know how to explain to you that diving deeper into conjecture of things that COULD be possible doesn’t bring us any closer to having evidence that this is actually happening

sorry if this is rude, i’ve said this whole time it’s entirely possible. i just don’t think you should be hung up on this concept, it’s almost the same as magic

[little hill]

Well haki isn't just latent in one piece in humans. It's an ability that all life forms have, but they have to either be trained or put through large amounts of stress to unlock their latent abilities and they also seemingly need to have a certain amount of intellect to also process and use this ability. Which is why, although it kind of makes no sense that people can just 'do it', it also means that although it's "impossible" and unnatural compared to normal standards it would still hardlock it to beings like human and fishmen, and leave the rest of the "natural" one piece world such as plants and trees and non-intellectual forms of life to seemingly regular existences. Aside from haki, we have no indication that there are other life forms or beings could simply just do 'unnatural' things in one piece if we're using the real world as our basis, and haki is hardlocked to intellect it seems

[little hill]

The thing is, what other argument is there? Which constitutes the base of my theory. If the molecules aren't restructured into a different state, how the hell do we turn someone's brain into a ball of fire? Then what happens? An invisible hand just grabs the brain at the speed of 500x light and pulls it apart and back together to keep it in tact while fire is also pulled there? And if the devil fruits generate force out of seemingly nowhere, where else could this force possibly come from, if not a source in some level of relativity to that of conqueror's haki, that is not generated through kinetic force, but seemingly through the willpower of a soul alone?

[digital tapir]

that’s not that weird tho, every power in one piece seems connected to “willpower” and “dreams”, which are concepts only intelligent life forms have
doesn’t really change the argument, just means that haki and devil fruits are only capable of things imagination can will them to
i don’t think it proves anything one way or another, but it does give a connection between the natural force of haki and the, as i will say, also natural force of devil fruits, only capable of being drawn out by those with the willpower to use them

[north marsh]

Once Oda said that when we see a pirate with an eye patch, we will know that the series is about to end. In the recent chapter, we are introduced to Joyboy as the first pirate. What if the pirate with the eye patch is Joyboy? We probably won't see him until the end, which coincides with what Oda said.

[little hill]

Yes the argument is a stretch, but what bolsters it is mainly the logic that, what else could be the case? If the molecules of the body aren't restructured, and a force out of nowhere that isn't composed of kinetic energy restructures them, or restructures the world around them, then what could possibly be doing it? Your hand made of carbon and calcium etc, just randomly turns into ice without a trace of blood or anything. Yet, your hand still exists in the state of your soul. and we know this because haki can still hit your hand even if you are transformed into a logia state.

[digital tapir]

you need to say to yourself that it’s just a shonen
this is again why i mentioned the knock up stream, kinemon’s fire, haki, mermaids, everything
why do these things work in nature? they don’t. it’s not natural, it’s a silly little story about a stretchy pirate and his magical adventures
oda didn’t think too hard about why this all works. he said it just does, because it’s fun that way. you can try to make it all work logically, but it doesn’t. it’s not supposed to. because it wouldn’t be fun that way

[little hill]

This is true that they do not work in reality. But the thing about shonen is that they have laws separate from reality, and within the fictional world they have their own explanations, even if they don't make sense in our world. I'm simply stating that the fictional explanation is the theory I've outlined, while also understanding that I could be completely wrong.

[digital tapir]

you’ve dug yourself into a bit of a hole trying reason out why it works. it doesn’t have to. even the best argument to make it make sense won’t reaaaally make it make sense. there’s only as much logic to it as oda wants it to be
you can put yourself into the shoes of a one piece character and try to reason out how their world works, but it doesn’t. hence why those characters don’t ask the same questions

[little hill]

This is true. But there's always the chance that in the future Oda will come out with an explanation that is the same as mine conceptually, which would make this theory a reality(at least within the one piece verse) and would make Oda a genius(to me subjectively of course), and would make this theory of mine even more impressive if I was able to truly read into the story and decipher this being the case based upon the little amount of info we currently have as a fanbase on the verse(more specifically how specifically devil fruits work or how specifically they were created)

[digital tapir]

maybe. i like the idea that the answer is somewhere in between, like the devil fruits are like containers for fragments of powers from creatures that existed, like some ancient technology split the soul of something like nika and that’s why there’s different models with different degrees of power

[little hill]

Yep... that could probably explain zoan devil fruits and whatnot.... however it ends up being explained will definitely be interesting to me though. It'll mean a lot to me especially considering the amount of time I've put into following the story lmao. Hopefully we're both somewhat close to the explanation

[digital tapir]

yeah i definitely think devil fruits are the biggest mystery and i’ve wanted him to explain it for so long
gotta be close though, with all the void century and ancient civilization info coming out

[little hill]

But I did some research on smile fruits... and it looks like they're developed purely off of the conceptualization based upon seeing and researching devil fruits and not actually grabbing pieces of devil fruits and using them to create smile fruits, which would explain how smile fruits are mass-generated and implemented for testing in places like wano on the less fortunate... This is confirmed cannon because whether you take a tiny bite or a large bite of a devil fruit, the powers completely transfer onto you. You can't take one small bite, and let another person take a small bite and split the powers. So smile fruits are completely designed from the ground up, they grabbed the fruit, gave them the capabilities to change human characteristics and implemented them into experimentation using nothing but what they know, and seeing how devil fruits work and function.

but man shoot I'm too excited for these next chapters

[digital tapir]

yeah i’m not quite sure how smile fruits work but i think they’re really interesting
i think kaido probably wanted them because he wanted to like forcefully create joyboy’s successor (the laughs and all)
definitely something interesting going in there, laughing is a pretty big thing in one piece (d clan members, nika fruit), so i really hope we see how that all connects

[little hill]

but ngl i was cooking with that theory bro, and now that i got the confirm that the smile fruits are designed from the ground up

[digital tapir]

idk about allat

[little hill]

they already know how to make fraud devil fruits, we just dont know if they can perfect them yet, and some of them are better than the garbage normal dfs, we know humans can make fruits, now im just praying for a chicken and the egg loop but the chicken came first. humans made devil fruits before they discovered them and ima stand by this take until oda reveals. risky but if its true then ima go crazy

[kind tusk]

Aint Momosuke smile fruit is perfect?

[little hill]

Ima have to check, the uhh the dragon one right? I thought it was flawed when he was a kid but when he reached his adult form it fixed up? or was it just garbage cuz he was a kid

[digital tapir]

it’s not exactly perfect (the color was different) but it essentially works the same cause it uses kaido’s limeage factor

[little hill]

It might still be good even then... who knows... zoan formed devil fruits probably change their look a bit depending on the user itself... for example the guy with the giraffe fruit would definitely look different and without glasses if some other human ate the giraffe fruit...

[kind tusk]

The different between smile and real fruit is that they cant use it first(like momo cant even use bala breath) , while the real one you can allready use the power

And momo Dragon is perfect but just diff colour.

[digital tapir]

well i think the fruit itself was the wrong color, vegapunk considered it a failure before momo even ate it

[little hill]

yeah i remember vegapunk considering it a failure but he also didn't expect momo to grow up and then the fruit would turn out how it did in the end, like it went from useless to working, I'm not sure if vegapunk also predicted that or not

[digital tapir]

i think it’s hard to say tho, smiles are only zoans and they might just be turning people into actual animals (they can be tamed by otamas power, real zoans can’t)

[little hill]

Even if it went from useless to working that could be considered a failure cuz it should be perfect from the jump... either that or the mythical kaido dragon is useless as a baby and works as an adult and nobody knew about it beforehand since kaido ate it as an adult safest option for now is to consider it a failure

[digital tapir]

actually i think momo was just useless and they aged him up so he would at least be more physically capable

[little hill]

this is also true.. he was quite literally like 4 or 5 years old.... even babies in mythical creatures are also weaker than their adult forms so it'd only be natural to assume that his zoan form just got better as it aged, it'd be like the giraffe fruit user as a baby would shift into a baby girafffe 💀 and still get whooped, but him shifting as an adult into an adult giraffe would be more effective, and also aligns with how as luffy got stronger and more capable as a fighter, from a child to an adult and as his body developed and he got stronger his zoan form became drastically more capable. So you're 1,000 percent right on this

luffy gum gum as a 5 year old: this devil fruit is useless! it stinks! luffy gum gum at 19: I AM A LITERAL DEITY. so in terms of pattern recognition it'd only be accurate for momo to experience the same thing with his zoan. it was prob not a failure except for maybe color like yall said

[kind tusk]

Like i said colour aint a problem it just the use of Artificial Fruit and Real one are just different

[little hill]

ah so even after reaching adult form momo still cant use blast breath, wait nah he did use it bro @kind tusk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lod92sAZoBE "
@Sundokei
6 months ago
Now its confirmed that you can literally make the same devil fruit that may just look different, now imagine they remake the gum gum fruit"

and i think if i remember correctly he also held up wano after kaido died so everything wouldn't crash

[digital tapir]

i think the color is different for 2 reasons

1. so he doesn’t look exactly like kaido lol
2. to show that the worlds greatest mind(s) couldn’t make a complete devil fruit, even using an existing one as a base

[kind tusk]

If the real fruit he can allready use it, but momo need a few trial until he manage to use it

[mighty raptor]

So one piece is a land, where all can stay after the disaster, it’s literally an “one piece “ of land.

[digital tapir]

why would roger call that his treasure he dgaf

[mighty raptor]

Its a treasure for the homeless though, who suffered from such big disaster

[little hill]

nah facts bro saw it and just left it. roger saw the default name and didn't even edit it

[digital tapir]

yeah but roger said my treasure out there somewhere n he don’t care about the homeless
his ass was protecting the CDs on god valley when they were hunting slaves

[pure raven]

Luffy will learn a “new”Haki from, the giants and get a power up after learning about Nika more in depth

[digital tapir]

we got enough haki already damn
why he need a power up he’s like top 3 in the verse

[pure raven]

He’s clearly not lol his attacks does no damage to the gorosei and consequently to imu. He need a power up, might not be Haki but he’s getting one fs

[digital tapir]

he turned saturn into a frisbee

[pure raven]

Yeah that’s why I’m saying it’s gotta be Haki, it has to be some sort of otherworldly power he needs to actually damage them

We gotta talk in some other channel ts annoying waiting for a min

[digital tapir]

it’s actually super easy to damage them they just have good regeneration tho
he hasn’t fought any of them in a serious 1v1 and characters weaker than him have done crazy damage i think it’s fair to say he’s >>> individually

[mighty raptor]

One piece is like DBZ, super Saiyan 7 luffy, always getting powerups

[digital tapir]

it’s a shonen of course he gets powerups
does he really need it right now tho

[lethal pulsar]

nah mate, it's the motherflame. if u see in the manga saturn is oddly affected by it and proceeds to transform back to human

[digital tapir]

holy shit luffy is gonna set himself on fire with the mother flame and then he’ll just start fighting everyone while he’s on fire and then they’ll call him fire punch

he threw like one punch and had a hurt hand gag i hardly think that counts as a proper 1v1
not to mention he’d already gone old man form like twice this arc

[lethal pulsar]

I always thought it was weird too. wouldn't his multiple legs be faster in destroying all the snails/broadcast tech so he could move on quicker. gorosei can "sense" life

maybe we will find out more why Nika is called the "SUN god" and to be honest luffy has always had fire attacks for some odd reason (we initially thought it was friction but red roc wouldn't make sense because not gear second)

[digital tapir]

it’s not tied to his fruit people can just do that

[lethal pulsar]

ye that's true. the main thing for me oddly enough Saturn found the mother flame blinding/painful when egghead is daytime right now.

[opaque breach]

Joyboy flashback incoming? Could it be or am I hallucinating?

[outer ice]

I've been thinking, what if Lulusia was not nuked and destroyed? Rather it was thrown up into the space as the same situation as Jaya's island.

Back in Skypeia arc, Noland assumed that Jaya sank when in reality they were shot up to the skies and landed on Skypeia, now I'm thinking it's the same logic with some evidence:

1. When looking at UFOs, they're always portrayed to be PULLING things towards them. So it could be the case where the entire Lulusia island was being pulled towards the ship and thrown into the space. What a batshit insane thing to say, right? Well, evidence 2:

2. Seawater rising. Let's talk about irl, do you know that our moon can rise our sea levels? This is the same thing. The fact that the sea level has been rising is because they have DONE this shit WAY TOO MANY TIMES.

3. But I hear you say, wouldn't the moon only raise the sea level on wherever the planet is facing towards the moon? Well, you forgot, One Piece has SIX FUCKING MOONS. The more they keep throwing land mass towards space, they bundle up, creating a moon (that's how our moon was formed btw)

tl;dr lulusia got turned into moon, which increased sea levels

[flint ocean]

My theory is that Mother Flame that we see in case in that water glass originally belongs to Nika. That’s why he’s called the Sun god and his toon force powers will let him eat it. Once he eats it he will unlock all of his real powers and memories from the old JoyBoy. Luffy is always considered hungry all the time during fight. That unlimited energy is is the Mother Flame. after we see the 108 number and some theorize the “A&Mu” as A to Mu as in atoms. 108 is considered Divine and sacred and spiritual that’s why monks usually have 108 beads on their wrist. Luffy will obtain real god hood after eating the mother flame. His epithet is “Sun God” Nika but we know his fruit as mythological Zoan Nika

[wintry bough]

what if the video of Vegapunk is power by the mother flame, so if the Gorosei try to destroy the video they need to destroy the mother flame

[gloomy forge]

I am very curious was joy boy the first to set out to sae in general or the first to do it against the will of the world government. If it is the latter that would explain why we don't know anything about before the avoid century because none of the islands (or pieces of land) would have any way to communicate with one another. If it is the latter that means that the word government has existed for a lot longer than we think or some version of it.
I'm also curious if there was a lot more land in general back then and what we have now is all that is left.

[stone sapphire]

I'm counting 7 chief

[coarse gull]

open

[teal ocean]

How come, Lulusia was destroyed by masive laser beam, and it's going up to the moon?

[inland cobalt]

It’s not 6 moons it’s a geo centric model of the universe

[leaden roost]

why do we HAVE to know about someone for them to exist? we pretty much know next to nothing about the void century, so we cannot assume there wasnt other figures that rivaled joyboy and imu. Even then there are many characters in the show (present time) who could take upon the role of potential successors: dragon, loki, figarland, vivi, shirahoshi, hinokizu and more. Again, I admit i hadnt given it much thought, but your argument doesnt really make what I said any less possible

also the gods i named were mentioned in skypiea (not sure if you are aware of that)

[noble matrix]

Question, with IMU wanting to sink everything is it because Luffy acquired the Sun God fruit and also from him wanting to get to the one pieces. With Imu sinking everything he doesn’t have to worry about devil fruits and also the one piece.

[pallid atlas]

Having all the DF spawn on the grand line instead of the red line then wiping out all DF users by flooding will allow the WG to possess all the DF for themselves

[inland cobalt]

It's more likely that Imus sink everything plan predates the one piece and the one piece is a counter to it in someway

[visual fossil]

It’s interesting that it’s possible that the second prison break everyone’s thinking about might not be done by Cross Guild or Blackbeard at all, but rather could be Magellan and Do Flamingo together

[versed gyro]

Going to add more to this theory but I’m starting to lean to D meaning Drum (credit to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/IAMgKgiH5X). We first learn about the D on Drum island and the importance of will.

Thinking Teach may be the direct descendant of JoyBoy (special lineage) but he’s hellbent on getting revenge for his ancestor and family. While he’s acting on his own justice, it goes against the will of his ancestor.

A common theme in OP is predisposed destiny (passing on the will) vs. free will like Ace and Roger or Oden.

[cunning shadow]

found this https://www.threads.net/@kyou.acab/post/C6wclWhC12g/?xmt=AQGz2gDaaChN9AL5fYRBuQjc0LI0YVA5hfRTwVrmi1N-WQ

[clever lintel]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namazu

Pluton is based on the myth of Namazu and will have a design based on it.

[cursive ginkgo]

Hey so I was thinking as unpopular of a theory as it is I was thinking maybe the last strawhat is already with the crew, and it's the Thousand Sunny. Same as the Going Merry is/was considered to be a crew member in of herself shouldn't Sunny be the same? Same as I'd like another crew member doesn't this make sense?

[digital tapir]

i feel like if there were 3 people equal to nika we’d KNOW
we haven’t seen indications of anyone on that level and there’s really not enough evidence to support anything close to your theory

[leaden roost]

i feel like one piece as a whole and the top tiers all have obvious and major connections to celestial bodies. To say that isn’t any larger meaning is simply ignorant and naive IMO.

[versed gyro]

BLACKBEARD IS JOY BOY DESCENDANT

Leaning into the theory (credit to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/IAMgKgiH5X) that D means Drum, it may unveil more about Blackbeard's mysterious beginnings.

D(RUM) ORIGINS
The significance of the 'D' being first explored on Drum Island is pivotal. Drum Island itself, formerly known as the "Kingdom of Drum," has themes of liberation and revolution, aligning with the overall narrative of change and upheaval associated with carriers of the 'D'.

Drumming can symbolize communication, war, and revolution. In many cultures, drums are used to rally people, communicate over distances, and in rituals that signify rebellion or change. The 'D' as "Drum" could metaphorically represent the heartbeat or the drumbeat of the world, signifying those who carry this initial as key figures in the world's cyclical history of upheaval and renewal.

BLACKBEARD ORIGINS
Teach was first mentioned during Drum Island arc, hinting a deep connection to Drum and Liberation. I think that Teach could be the direct descendant to Joy Boy, explaining his deep historical knowledge and special lineage.

Teach's actions, while often villainous, do involve liberating others (i.e., pushing out Warpol from Drum Island, Impel Down event, Pirate Island event). These actions, although serving his own ends, contribute to the ongoing theme of chaos and change that D carriers often bring. His actions could be seen as misinterpretations or corruptions of what Joy Boy stood for. A recurring theme in "One Piece" is the tension between fulfilling a destined role versus choosing one's path. Teach, like Ace and Oden, is faced with the legacy of a forebear but chooses a path divergent from expected heroism or benevolence. His quest for vengeance against his perceived wrongs and his desire to upend the world order reflect a dark interpretation of the 'D' legacy.

[gloomy bridge]

Luffy consumes the mother flame and uses it to gain infinite gear 5 and take down imu and the gorosei

[digital tapir]

is it? the dude named like 2 arcs of villains after playing cards. reading deeply into naming schemes is a bit silly
and also that really doesn’t connect into the “earth gods” idea at all, so i’m not sure what your point is here

[olive jolt]

TRAFALGAR D. LAW , OP OP NO MI AND IMU

if we consider D to stand for dream, the objective of the battle of trafalgar for france was to beat the naval superiority of england (and invade england)

if we put the WG, imu, marie jois as representatives of france, trafalgar would be a war fought against pirates, since many english sailors were pirates, corsairs, a huge part of france wealth came from pirate activity

england is an island , france is in the continent, marie jois stand in a huge piece of land, while what WG tries to control is exactly the sea and to do that they need control over the islands

also, when napoleon conquered europe, he regulated the traffic of english ships in order to weaken england , just like the WG does in the redline (sanji , a french speaker, and the all blue dream might be here somewhere)

[digital tapir]

where does being joyboy’s descendant factor in here?

[olive jolt]

a person who attacked and stole from ships at sea, especially someone allowed by a government to do this in the 17th and 18th centuries

The definition of buccaneer might show that this "race" was part of an army or nation, ancient kingdom.

[pure raven]

Hi I have a question does anyone have a theory of the letter from nefertari to illie in one piece ?

[primal cargo]

Yeah my theory is that Lily's request to "raise the flag of dawn" is in reference to the pirate flag.
Pirates are people who have broken free from the rules of society on land - in particular pirates are free from the reach of the World Government and cannot be controlled by them.
This is of course reinforced by the idea of Imu using the threat of flooding to control the world, as pirates can't be threatened by that. So becoming a pirate is equivalent to becoming free from Imu's control.

[versed gyro]

What do you mean?

[digital tapir]

none of what you said correlates to him being joyboy’s descendant

[deft prawn]

the one piece being a bottle of sake for a guy named binks would be really cool lol

it would honestly make everyone cry of laughing if just at the last island there is the binks sake xD

the D could just mean "Dealer" and joyboy would be the first Dealer of Sake or the first one that stole from the dealers of sake and so becoming itself a pirate (?)

[digital tapir]

oda would be burned at the stake if that was true

[tight birch]

Man marked by flames is Ace

[olive jolt]

add some seasoning to your cooking

[olive jolt]

Imu can control eight bodies, those bodies are the planets.

The first sin, was committed by Lili, she ate a devil fruit.

And then Adam (the first man, or JoyBoy...THE FIRST PIRATE)

Both were "kicked from eden" (ancient kingdom)

(This is mostly information from a theory on a youtube video, How Imu Created The Red Line With The World Serpent Fruit, but with added craziness by me)

[olive jolt]

It can be addded here, that the snake in skypeia was about to kill robin as a sacrifice, and a man intervened cutting its head. Robin may represent Lili and Joyboy Noland...

In current OP, what might happen is Vivi being captured and Luffy coming to save her.

[tired agate]

Yeah, members of the same ancient kingdom as Joy Boy, likely Allie’s. Which with the loss of the ancient kingdom would explain why the Buccaneers were persecuted, enslaved, and hunted to extinction.

[junior sequoia]

what do you think how much more will the egghead arc last I think it is on its peak

[keen monolith]

The a&mu on the mother flame is being read as atomu or atom, but doesn’t it also sound like Adam?

[inland cobalt]

We can’t make any conclusions on that atm yes the words atom and Adam are similar but we can’t really say anything about a connection atm

It’s likely not since the word play emphasizes the TO sound afaik

[dark quail]

we already have an adam too, the adam tree that the thousand sunny is made from

[grave prism]

Ruffy will somehow be able to create the sun or mother flame. On the panel before the mother flame, you can see that Saturn is in pain from the light of the flame and can no longer maintain his transformation. So I suspect that the mother flame will be a way to do permanent damage to the 5 Elders and so to be able to defeat them. they dont call him SUN God for nothing

[elfin merlin]

Few of one piece theories for absolutely no reason (I made these btw cuz am pro):

1. Ace could come back along with other straw hat's dead loved ones/friends (Oliva robin, tom, kuina, brook's crewmates, sanji's mum etc...). Heres how: After reaching laugh tale he learns the true nature of his fruit, or maybe from vegapunk if he survives, we of course do know the true limitations but it is said to be limited by the user's imagination, this could mean when travelling back to the east blue where a half of the straw hats come from, all of the straw hat's loved ones and close friends will be ressurected by luffy.

2. What will happen on elbaf: They will show up with droggy and broggy from egghead but when they land they get jumped by blackbeard, the straw hats start to get packed up but then LOCK IN and start to slowly defeat the jumpbeard pirates, In the distance you see the red force, when shanks arives it can go 2 ways: 1. Shanks friendly meets luffy and tells him to keep on going and achieve his dream and basically support him etc... 2. A massive fight ensues.

3. Only luffy will be able to enter laugh tale. There could be some magic force and similar stuff only allowing those with true freedom enter, or those who weild the hito hito no mi model nika. If you wondering how with Roger, it could've been the freedom thing OR some sort of thing what turns up when one eats the hito hito no mi model nika, this would be a nice touch but would obviously be best if it wasnt just a cool thing, also kong and imu might show up just before they reach laugh tale or just after luffy has become pirate king

👍

Also red super saiyan version of gear 5 hinted at early on in egghead is how he defeats gorosei

[kind tusk]

Will luvvy will be bald head and one hit evryone?

[magic stirrup]

I don't think the first one makes much sense , cause i believe bringing back someone dead leaves a bad taste, the story kinda loses it's essence and the fruits are called devil fruits so i think devil fruits will somehow be eliminated by the end of the story

[deft zinc]

I have a theory on Toki time jumping everyone into the future not once but twice. Once when Toki came to present time (it’s stated she’s from void century) and then a second time for momonosuke and co 20 years into the future.

Based on the latest chapter 1114 regarding Sun God Nika fighting alongside a stretchy boy named joyboy…that in itself can be taken multiple ways. Either these two entities are actually separate or they are one. What if…

Luffy defied aging and is actually joyboy but somehow lost his memories… the straw hats are all interesting because we know them but don’t really know them. Like each parent we never really seen.

[magic stirrup]

I believe 1114 was pretty clear in stating Joyboy matched the description of Nika and both of them are different

[magic stirrup]

Well , i don't know much abt that but if you're including the power of age he's got Bonney with him so she might be playing a part by the end of the story

[deft zinc]

Even without Bonney..he ages when fatigued or near incapacitated. I think it’s more to the story that meets the eye.

Nika is definitely a reality warper so I do imagine a child like being. It makes me question the real abilities of each god. It’s so much to expand on

[magic stirrup]

Wait Rovin was almost killed by the serpent? I don't remember that , sad 💀

[magic stirrup]

Yeah , don't mean to invalidate your opinion but that he's the same Joyboy from 900 years back don't sit right with me , well that's my perspective tho

[deft prawn]

What if the rain water that sinked old wano was zunesha's water? maybe wano and zunesha were in some sort of fight or maybe zunesha was being manipulated, wano created the enormous walls to protect agains zunesha and he not being able to enter wano just threw water over the walls (and him being manipulated to do that is his sin and why he's condemned for eternity)

[digital tapir]

interesting idea but i feel like that would simply take too long? like why would zunesha just stand there shooting water at it until it fills
i think considering that we’ve learned something is causing the sea to rise and earthquakes, it probably is related to that instead

[ivory urchin]

This is pretty crazy

[icy raptor]

i'm a believer in the return of enel, eventually

[ivory urchin]

I don’t know how anyone could believe otherwise. It’s just a matter of when.

[slow tide]

This picture has made me think so heavily.

1. That semicircle has to be the mother flame. The semi circle has 8 dots around it, which means that the full circle has 16 dots… when Imu obliterated the island, there were 16 beams.

2. Some people think that the crab is representing Poseidon being with the fishmen, the boat looking thing being Pluton, and since we know pretty much nothing about Uranus the green things represent Uranus. All three of these need to be present to defeat the mother flame.

3. The people in the picture clearly look like people from Skypiea which makes sense since it was found in Skypiea but… how did Skypiea go up to the sky?

My theory is that Imu pushed it to the sky because those hieroglyphics could be deciphered by the people in Ohara and could possibly give more clues about the ancient weapons and the void century.

We all know the government pushes things heavily in the world. Noland the Liar was heavily pushed for a reason, Imu could not allow the world to know that he erased an island just like Lulusia.

Another thing I find interesting is, King is the only Lunarion in existence that we know of. But why do the people of Skypiea have wings that don’t work?

I also believe that Bucaneers are direct descendants of Joyboy or a race that Joyboy somehow created, which is why they have giants blood and why the government committed genocide against the race.

[valid pasture]

True

[deft prawn]

idk if it takes too long or not, zunesha is enormous, also, i just remembered momonosuke could talk to zunesha, so it would make sense that someone in old wano could too, there is a connection there

[digital tapir]

wano isn’t small tho, it’s like filling up a full sized pool with a garden hose at best

[stone sparrow]

so i was discussing usopps lies in manga channel, and found some lies that have real potentional to come true. an alien store keeper could refeer to a native to the moon who set up a shop on earth. a wonder medicine that can cure any illness can refeer to chopper acheiving his dream. and with how the manga is currently going i feel like alot more of them will come true soon

[dark quail]

i bet youre right on those few in particular, and i bet they parallel wapols cover story of opening up shop for his toys, getting too much attention, getting chased out for black magic, then getting back on top

Im nearly certain its a birkan, who opened a medical clinic that offered a fucking cureall, some winged man come down from the sky peddling the only wares he knows,

but its not an actual medicine,
its more like hiriluks/wapol/sugar
in that to some, his treatments seemed more harmful than good despite everyone he treated being on deaths door,

the birkan way, the technique that is psuedo reincarnation, psuedo immortality, no matte what ails you, they can cure, because they straight up kill you, pull your soul out into a devil fruit, and throw you into a one size fits all tanuki automaton, then you wake up in a brand new healthy human shaped body, your soul being none the wiser, especially if you have no goddamn idea what just happened, only that you feel fucking INCREDIBLE and not sick anymore

you would walk off as a robot thinking you had the limitations of a human

but i imagine there are situations like Kureha, like Rayleigh who understand what they've become,

or even just masters of haki being able to feel that their potential for it is much higher despite having the same circulatory system to feel for

but there are situations like Hiriluk where he had no clue what cured him or that he was different,

and just like he did on Birka on the earth, Enel now has a stockpile of very specific tools that can only be found on birka, just like the super jet dials he put on the arc maxim

but it all started from one birkan migrant whos home was a barren land now, made to move to the earth, and likely benevolent in nature, likely loved that he was helping all of the sick and needy, just like kuma and his church, but he likely healed some bad hombres and it gave them much much more power than they should have, and like frankys inventions that were made in good faith, were used all at once to fuck over what he was fighting for, and it taught him that even tools made with no intention of being a weapon can still absolutely be wielded like one

i wonder if they are all solar powered,

they seem to be really grateful to whoever saves their life/refills their batteries, and a tiny orbiting burning moon might be enough to charge them,

but if they were to pull back the curtain, and be hit with the suns rays in full (think lulusia)

they would become 10000 volt amaru level gods

ive never been able to shake the idea of having to go around the grand line to reverse your static charge/magnetic polarity, like, the static pull of the planet is enough to keep anyone here but if you go around the circumference you can reverse your charge from positive to negative and make it so you can leave the planets pull if not straight up compelled to do so

coupled with lodestar island being the last island,

i bet it is magnet related, but is only useful once you reverse your magnetic polarity and it tries to push you up

weve known for a long time that gang bege is a roger analog, down to his pink haired wife birthing his absolute pride and joy

is that weird fucking time where they are pulled upwards towards what looks like a moon with stone thrusters

is that an analog for roger accidentally stumbling onto the treasure the first time?

I am a firm believer that Roger is/was a member of the Rumbar pirates, of which i have receipts, which would allude to yorki and friends making out of the calm belt and curing their sickness (i have a single receipt for this)

what better way to survive certain death than by stumbling onto the panacea like hiriluk did

[dark quail]

hell, if it is magnets, godvalley might have been gunvalley, because that whole island look like a railgun, and you could get shit out of orbit FOR SURE with a railgun

i do think that mt fuji is specifically a knockstream to get to the moon,, one that needs to be timed precisely all the same or else your sheep gets flung into space

i think impel down is another attempt at a space elevator, because those on the bottom floor, if it were flooded, would be like taking a basketball to the bottom of a swimming pool and letting go, the most blatant giveaway being a play on 'propel up'

i think the bridge being built forever and ever is the start of a space elevator, one inclined plane you could sail your ship straight out of orbit

I think the eve tree reaches up high enough to act as a literal bridge, similar to the giant jack in shandora

we know balloons are enough to get you up to the moon, and that balloon terminals are a thing thanks to Urouge chilling there while they were trying to stay low profile

now all together, plus the adam tree that no longer exists thanks to being what the sunny is made from,

thats at least 8 ways to get off planet and threaten imus absolute power, which makes me think of the symbol consistently drawn on the wall of the gorosei room that shows an eight pointed star with the points interconnecting, as well as what i feel is the prototype of the hoof of the soaring dragon in the curly whirlys around the outside

and while it isnt quite like the pentagrams that summoned the gorosei, it IS the octogram that was trying to be replicated by the people who thought they summoned brook, but who was actually sent by kuma

it obviously is what is trying to be 'remembered' with the sun logo seen everywhere

but it also reminded me of a proposed idea for an eight spoke runway wheel to be put over london, which was obviously flawed, could be implications of a once global network of milky roads that disrupted the totality of the powers that be

im al;so seeing now that that seal is very reminiscent of the imagery that oda introduced most recently,

and as a complete potential nonconnection, ill always remember what zoro says during trichilochosm

'nine mountains and eight seas constitue one world, 1000 worlds make a cholochism and when i gather and cube that cholochism, theres nothing i cant cut'

if theres one right in the middle, that makes nine mountains and 8 seas to connect the outer mountains

also cubes that cant be cut by anything come to mind when he talks about cubing something and cutting anything. the connection is a little easier seeing as hes from wano

but those are both kind of loose ends

If there is no connection, at the VERY least, i am confident that attempting to get off planet or being able to at one point in time is something imu has been trying to keep under wraps,

and that symbol on the gorosei room is unbelievably important to the story

[gentle valve]

i don't know if it was a well known theory but I may be the happiest man in the world nonetheless

[unique gull]

The D clan and Joyboy are agreed to be linked. If Joyboy and Luffy are really alike, and Joyboy was the first pirate to sail the seas. Then the D clan might be Joyboy’s fleet. Like Luffy, the fleet has captains of different races that were freed by Luffy

[grim agate]

interesting

[violet sequoia]

Theory: Doll, Tashigi, PH kid and Vergo Theory.

So we know Doll used to work under Saul 22+ years ago. Given this info we can logically come to a reasonable conclusion that Doll is at least 39 yrs at the min. But is most likely in her 40s.
Through this connection to Saul she could have a meaningful interaction with Robin.

I also think due to her relationship with the PH kids who were living at her base since their arc months ago in the story. She has learnt about what the strawhats did for them in particular Chopper and Nami.
Mocha would have told Doll about them. Choppers medical capabilities in particular.

Nami in PH arc revolved around her relationship with bellemere and kids. Her fondness for female marines like bellemere.
Namis bond with tashigi was highlighted. And Doll was revealed talking to tashigi.

So how does this all come together. I think Doll is close friends with Bellemere. Their strong similarity in chatacter, their similar age. The fact that she was marine 22 years ago which is exactly the time that bellemere was a marine

[inland cobalt]

That’s not a boat it’s the moon

[slow tide]

Mmm… I have a hard time seeing that as a moon

[inland cobalt]

You see the moon robots on it crying because the people are leaving the moon it’s very possible the crab is pluton and the snake is poseidon

[slow tide]

Moon robots… okay hahahh

[inland cobalt]

No the moon robots are real they show up in the cover story with enel

[slow tide]

I think we can agree to disagree on this hahah, it’s just a theory so we’ll see what Oda has planned

I can’t upload any pictures rn, idk why but just to make sure.. you’re talking about the blue semi circle on the right side that 3 of the people are standing on?

[inland cobalt]

It’s very silly but it is canon that there’s moon robots that’s inarguable

[slow tide]

I’m not disagreeing about the moon robots, I just don’t think they’d be depicted in those hieroglyphics as I don’t see the people from that long ago knowing about outer space like that, but again, I could be wrong

Another reason I don’t see it being the moon, is because IF my theory is correct, I think Oda would depict all three ancient weapons and not just one or two

[inland cobalt]

The glyphs are on the moon

[iron current]

btw guys, you know you could have this discussion in #manga-serious and wouldnt have to deal with the 1 minute cd

[steady prism]

!theories @restive shadow please read the channel’s description

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[ornate fractal]

Dance Powder Caused the Void Century Here are some assumptions that I take before going into this theory:

1. The Ancient Kingdom is where Dance Powder was created
2. Imu was the leader of the Ancient Kingdom

800-900 years ago, the One Piece world looked a lot different than it did now. I think that for the most part, the planet was mostly land, with few rivers, lakes, and small oceans throughout. Without vast sources of drinking water, people would rely on the rain to survive. This is when Dance Powder is created by the Ancient Kingdom. With dance powder, places with low rainfall would still be able to support life but using it has a drawback. We find out during the Alabasta Arc that using Dance Powder can cause draughts in other areas.

Like in Alabasta, people in surrounding areas get mad at the Ancient Kingdom, assuming they were hoarding Dance Powder. In an effort to offer aid to the world, Imu has the idea to use the power of the Eternal Flame to cause the first flood bringing more water to people. The sea levels rise a considerable amount causing people like Joyboy to take to the seas to be connected with other countries once again.

Imu is vilified by the Ancient Kingdom and the rest of the world because of the people who lost their lives in the flood. Imu starts a civil war with the Ancient Kingdom, wins, then establishes the World Government to help police the world.

[strange delta]

bro thats dumb why would the ancient kingdom have a story like alabasta? cmon bro u think oda would make such a boring story.

[strange delta]

anyways we all know that the ancient kingdom had too much technology and was way too advanced, the other countries at that time had nothing like that.
Because of that the 20 kingdoms got together, teamed up, and had an all out war on the ancient kingdom. They won the fight and the ancient kingdom had used an unbreakable stone to write the history of what had happened for the future generations to decipher.

The language of the poneglyphs is most likely the language that the ancient kingdom was using to communicate. Now, the leaders of the 20 kingdoms established the world government that we know of today. With Imu being at the highest for somewhat reason, most probably because she had the eternal youth surgery conducted on her.

[steady prism]

It’s not dumb or boring. Laboon’s drawing a connection between Dance Powder, the Mother Flame, and Pangea. If the Ancient Kingdom made Uranus and we believe the Mother Flame and Uranus have common abilities, then it isn’t crazy to think that the Ancient Kingdom used something like the Mother Flame to increase sea levels. And if in the past there weren’t many islands, then that would imply that the world was basically Pangea, one big continent. No wonder the castle Imu lives in is called Pangea castle.

Everything you’ve said about the Ancient Kingdom isn’t wrong. There’s definitely more to the Ancient Kingdom’s story as a whole. But imo it isn’t crazy to try to connect what happened in Alabasta to the Ancient Kingdom. They have a connection that even I didn’t realize till now.

[valid pasture]

a strong connection as well which makes absolute sense since it was SOLELY queen Nefertari D. Lili who chose not to become a Celestial Dragon and instead just mysteriously vanished, plus Cobra having a face to face with Gorosei and Imu and speaking of the letter she left behind, the minutae of it etc. Imu also blames her for being the main culprit behind the spread of existence of poneglyphs, so Arabasta and it's climate and the now new info on rising sea levels could be connected for sure.

[ornate fractal]

Respectfully, I don't think that it's dumb or boring for Oda's standards considering a lot of the arcs and ideas in one piece are paralleled throughout the story

[inland cobalt]

sea water isn't drinkable but a drought would be interesting

[neon tendon]

I have a theory on what the one piece could be

The One Piece is a “World Unification Device”. This device, created by the ancient civilization, has the power to connect all the islands of the Grand Line, making them into a single contiguous landmass. The device works by manipulating the unique magnetic fields of the Grand Line, which are responsible for the erratic compass readings that make navigation so difficult.
The unification of the world would symbolize the ultimate freedom on the seas, breaking down all barriers between nations and peoples, which is the epitome of Pirate King Gol D. Roger’s legacy. It would also explain why the World Government fears its discovery, as it would render their control over the seas obsolete.
This device could be activated by the combined use of the three Ancient Weapons: Pluton, Poseidon, and Uranus, which are said to have the power to destroy the world. Instead of destruction, however, their true purpose is to reshape the world by bringing all the seas together, creating ‘All Blue’, a legendary sea of freedom where all fish from every ocean can be found, and a place where all sailors can navigate without boundaries.
The One Piece, therefore, is not just a treasure in the traditional sense, but a symbol of a united world, free from the divisions imposed by the Red Line and the Grand Line, a treasure that offers the greatest freedom of all: the freedom to roam the world as one wishes. This would be the true treasure worthy of the title ‘King of the Pirates’. Lmk what u guys think

[ornate fractal]

I was thinking that that was part of the backlash that imu would have recieved. Imu thought they would flood the world with fresh drinking water, but instead a bunch of people died, and the world was full of undrinkable salt water

[steady prism]

I like it a lot. I used to wish Uranus changed weather and/or the magnetic fields, but it doesn't seem like the case anymore. I believe Salmy had a theory here about Pluton being a weapon to move landmass around (#manga-theories message). The grand line's creation would make some sense too.

What would happen to the Red Line or Calm Belt in your theory?

[tired agate]

😂 you could have said that without being so harsh, damn 😂

[solemn briar]

Blackbeard’s lineage is that of Joyboy’s

After the confirmation Joyboy was the first pirate,We can assume Shanks told the Gorosei what it seems to be the information about Blackbeard special lineage. Now, it must be something really shocking and important. It can’t be something as simple as descending from an obscure figure like Davy Jones or a character we haven’t heard anything from, the set up is non existant. This info was dropped after we learned about the Buccaneers and we finally got the three races Big Mom lacked: Giants, Lunarians and Buccaneers. But why all the fuss about concealing this info? Kuma is already a Buccaneer, and I don’t think Devon or Augur would look at simply his race as being that relevant. The answer is straightforward: Blackbeard’s lineage is that of Joyboy’s.

We know both inherited will and genetics are important in the series, and as they work independently we have lots of characters that embody different wills from different lineages, from Roger and Ace, to Joyboy and Luffy. But what about Joyboy’s genetics? Wouldn’t make sense for Luffy’s other side of the coin to hold the other side of what made Joyboy himself?

This would explain a couple of things, like the Blackbeard Pirates devotion for his captain or Imu stabbing Blackbeard’s poster. Why would he single out Blackbeard? It’s not just because he’s a D, there are multiple of them, why not stab all the posters of all the Ds? As long as no one knows what the D is, it’s just a letter.

Maybe it’s just the possession of the darkness fruit, which might be more significant down the line. But I will wager it’s because he looks exactly like Joyboy (or at least similar to him), the same way Vivi looks like Lily.

That could also explain Blackbeard’s weird body and its interactions with devil fruits, because he has the lineage of the most powerful Buccaneer that existed.

With all the focus about how the Buccaneers are extra tough, the fact that they can take well a beating and how they are some sort of hybrids between humans and giants, would it be enough if Kuma was really the only alive one? Why did Devon and Augur come to the arc to drop the line of Blackbeard’s lineage, if not because it’s all tied to one of the main villains?

Even the fact he doesn’t sleep could be explained by being one of Joyboy’s special traits. After all, Shanks speculates it would be fun to not sleep.

Or as T.E. Lawrence, an archaelogist, Blackbeard’s job in the real world said: "The dreamers of the day are dangerous, for they might act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible".

Speaking of archaelogy, this would also help to explain why Blackbeard is so knowledgeable about absolutely everything in the series. He most likely inherited some physical evidence, or maybe just some bedtime stories.

This would also make Shanks and Blackbeard mirror even more heavily: One a descendant of one of the ancient kings. The other the descendant of Joyboy. Both now on the opposite moral ground.

With Joyboy being the first pirate, it just seems fitting Blackbeard is the ultimate, most accurate pirate, and his defeat will close the circle and mark the ending of pirates, as we understand them irl, with only pure adventurers remaining, like Joyboy, like Luffy.

Theory End.

[solemn briar]

Another theory coming up

[full merlin]

Ok insano theory that I may have just had while intoxicated but what if the reason garp refused the promotion to admiral is because he’d Literally be able to be controlled physically, not just metaphorically.

From what we know, every single Admiral of the marines has a devil fruit. I’ve often assumed that you are given a devil fruit, maybe specifically a logia considered almost all admirals have one, with the position of Admiral. This got me thinking if the reason garp wouldn’t take the position of admiral was because he didn’t want to eat a devil fruit, as many other important and influential people seem to not want to eat them (shanks & crew, roger and his crew, and hihawk).

What Ive been assuming for a while is that these people didn’t want to eat a devil fruit. While the reason might be the flood that we now know is coming, but what if reason had to do with imu. Maybe imu has the mizu-mizu fruit or some other water related fruit and so would be a natural counter to devil fruit user, or maybe imu was the one to make devil fruits.

Only only detailed we know about imu point to them being a demonic presence. From their classical devil tale, to their direct subordinates all having monster powers, to the summoning circle. What if imu created the devil fruits and can control the people that eat them. It’d explain why admirals seemed to all make one, and why those at the pinnacle seem to not have them.

The true crux of this theory is the idea imu can force a state like that of the jailer beasts, and make the will of a devil fruit overpower the will of the host. Another thing this may possibly explain is why the six elder didn’t get a devil fruit intro but just a monster title intro. Because the elders wills have all been taken over by their devil fruits, meaning they truly are those beasts.

Another thing I’d like to add to this is I think this isn’t true of all devil fruits, especially luffys.

Cont.

We know that luffys devil fruit was originally planned to be the only one initially in romance dawn, which should have us wondering if there’s anything special about his devil future. and now that we know that he has a fruit that gives the power of an ancient god, I think it’s pretty much confirmed that his fruit is the most unique or one of the most unique. I wouldn’t be suprised if devil fruits that give the powers of gods. I’m thinking luffys and maybe more, like the other 3 gods of skypiea and potentially elbaf. Maybe also Blackbeards yami yami is one renamed or he’s had a secret third devil fruit for a while that.

I further wonder if those devil fruits are the only real devil fruits, and all the others are essentially the void centuries version of smiles made by imu.

The last connection I want to make is that maybe the reason that joyboys crew is so sorry is that they were tricked into eating imus devil fruits, and literally betrayed joyboy. If this is true maybe that why zunisha and the intron faint used to be people before being forced into there devil fruit forms permanently.

Just to end this, I definitely don’t think this is all right but it was fun to speculate about and I do think it’s possible that some of it is right.

If anyone takes the time to read this thanks for hearing me out and would love to know your thoughts on any of it!

[fast tangle]

but then if we think about it, joyboy had the nika df as well so i think its a different betrayal than having imu’s df eaten

[olive jolt]

Blackbeard fruits seem to refer to Imu’s powers: darkness, earthquakes and immortality (if op op no mi fruit succ is confirmed)

[steady prism]

This was a great read, thanks for sharing and connecting all these dots together. At first, it was very strange to me how Saturn reacted when he talked about BB’s lineage. If BB was a buccaneer, why didn’t Saturn act in disgust the same way he did with Kuma as a child in God Valley? Maybe the Gorosei weigh Joyboy’s direct lineage as something to be feared/respected compared to a typical Bucanner. Also, one thing I’d like to add is in ch906, we already see Imu holding several bounty posters. The only one we can actually see if Luffy’s. But then in ch907, we see Shanks talking to the Gorosei. Finally in ch908, we see the infamous bounty posters shredded and Shirahoshi’s pic stabbed. Do you think Imu suspected BB all along and only got confirmation when Shanks told the Gorosei?

[unkempt sentinel]

How imu knows about shirahoshi?

[solar chasm]

What if Imu sends Doffy to kill Moria because Moria owns that giant ship Thriller Bark that would allow people to survive in the sunken world? Like Thriller Bark is another form of Noah if you think about it. And eliminating Moria would make people more likely not to try his idea of having a giant island sized ship.

[dire cobalt]

I went back and read some of post enies lobby, and I think shanks foresaw marineford happening with advanced future sight. Thats why he knew to be near wano to stop kaido and why he so heavily told whitebeard not to go after teech.

[analog sun]

I can totally see thriller bark being mentioned in a void century flashback !

[steady prism]

I don't know. I'm sure she's aware of Shirahoshi the princess of the Ryugu kingdom. But I don't know if/how she'd know that Shirahoshi was Poseidon. Maybe she treats every daughter of the Neptune family as potential Poseidon candidates that need to be eliminated.

Hey, we generally ask people not to bring up other series' details in these channels. Your comments about Future Boy Conan are, while slightly generic, still is considered a spoiler. Can you please remove it? And I think the point you're trying to make can stand on its own without it especially with the 1113 reveal.

[solemn briar]

Deleted, and I will try to work on it on a different way.

[solemn briar]

What is mentioned about future boy Canon is basically the main plot line btw, not sure if that considered a spoilers still.

[steady prism]

Yeah it's still considered spoilers since it's describing the setting and stuff. Again, the rest of your theory was fine it was just that one paragraph.

[solemn briar]

All good then

I still have one theory I will post later today

[tired agate]

Could you repost without that one bit, that was a really great theory

[solemn briar]

I will, you will need to give me time

[tired agate]

Take your time

[wispy kayak]

The waste from the Mother Flame is a big deal

[olive jolt]

Wdym? Pyrobloin clouds?

[wispy kayak]

exactly

Does anyone know of any VP inventions with numbers close to 108?

[pure raven]

I have a feeling that buggy’s crew is gonna find the one piece becouse sir crocodile: wealth Buggy: fame Mihawk: power and Rodger said that before he died he could be for shadowing something🤷‍♂️

[pale stirrup]

[rugged forum]

the cross guild will get the one piece b4 the SHs

[unkempt sentinel]

But still Cross Guild have Zero road poneglyph and also if anyone tries to go to laugh tale they need Nico Robin

[rugged forum]

buggy knows where laugh tale is

[strange shell]

j

[fallow bobcat]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[olive jolt]

Idk, but most common theory is related to 108 being a sort of sacred number , “The diameter of the sun is about 108 times that of the diameter of Earth”
… S in this case might be related to the sun…or since A&Mu sounds like atom, it can also be like a chemical component atomic number…

My take is mother flame is atomic power, pyrobloin is uranium therefore Uranus is the nuke, a weapon powered by uranium

Someone also mentioned luffy eating the mother flame which I think is valid as well, he could get 108 times bigger, though it seems, according to the anime opening that gorosei will just blow up the flame destroying the island to stop the transmission

Also regarding luffy eating the flame, there is a video theory talking about the effects of clouds on luffys body after g5, he seems to get to his giant form when near clouds (remember kaido throwing him up the sky)

More on clouds:

Sun-wukong : monkey king + sun = monkey d luffy

He rides a cloud, and that cloud:

“can change its size and shape according to his will”

Just like luffys toon power

Moreover, clouds usually represent dreams, so you could say nika form can “feed on dreams” in other words getting stronger and wanting to fulfill peoples dreams

Clouds will definitely play an important role in explaining key OP concepts

[tropic basalt]

My theory

As we know moon and sea is related so when the world will sink I think enel will be related to it and then there will be comeback of enel

[delicate notch]

u mean the flying nimbus?

[olive jolt]

Yes

[unkempt sentinel]

A theory from X user

https://x.com/3skulljoe/status/1790056909975822577?s=46

[keen monolith]

I think Burgess definitely has heard of Joy Boy to want Luffys fruit for himself even if he didn’t know what the fruit really was.

[solemn briar]

Considering BB being an archaelogist, they probably know a lot more than Robin.

[steady prism]

interesting observation, do you want to elaborate a bit more? Like what kind of fuel could have been used to keep the mother flame burning?

[steady prism]

Hey, sharing theory links is fine, but we generally ask people to still summarize the theory so people know what they’re clicking on. Nothing serious, just 2-3 sentences of what the theory’s about and/or what kind of evidence he uses is enough.

[distant slate]

the fuel imo functions similar to electricity

electricity isn't a power source, it is a method to transmit power. You need infinite source of energy to have infinite source of electricity. AK had that.

[inland cobalt]

not really gum gum was just a fantastic fit for any brawler type character boosts to agility durability and increased punching range

You just need the physical traits to use that which burgess has especially with it's usage for potential grappling techniques with his wrestler background

[serene nimbus]

something i typed up

not a virus i promise. i dont think anyone would appreciate if I sent 5 pages of text if its not in a file

basically mother flame is based off of lunarians give it a read ^

[serene nimbus]

Mother flame is a nuclear fusion reactor. In kanji it even says that the flame is made in fusion reactor. We already know how it works. This isn’t head canon. Check the wiki

The flame though is probably the radioactive isotope Ag-108 generated by Ag-107 + n, hence it can be used for fusion fuel, and is what is emitting the “infinite energy” not to be confused with Ag-108 by rounding 107.868 to 108, or Oda could have a double entendre meaning because irregardless Ag-108 is radioactive and unstable so it’s fuel.

if noone is willing to download

i just want to hear feedback cause i wanna brush holes up before i post on twitter

[kindred mason]

Pretty good theory

[tribal hollow]

What does it say? Give us a two sentence sunmar

[kindred mason]

Me scientist me want good. Me scientist me accidentally boom.

[tribal hollow]

Lol love it. Ur right great theory

[pure raven]

I have a theory that imu is inspired after the monster the umibozu. To support this there have also been tales of these monsters transforming into beautiful women and challenging them to a swimming race. I know the swimming race has nothing to do with it but what if imu was actually a woman who joyboy loved?

[wispy kayak]

Toki was a slave who stole her fruit like those of God Valley

[steady prism]

It’s an interesting theory. I don’t know much about nuclear fusion so I’ll take everything you’ve said at face value. The idea that the mother flame is a nuclear fusion reactor makes sense and does tie in well with VP’s dream. I have two comments: 1. As for Lunarians’ connection to the mother flame, perhaps their flames turning on/off is their body deciding whether to do fusion (on) or fission (off). For example, their increased durability is (very loosely) akin to constantly fusing atoms into heavier/denser atoms. So, as a Lunarian is attacked, they’re stockpiling more and more energy, sorta like Urouge. And their sudden speed boost may be due to the fission reaction happening in their bodies to release energy to be used up. More importantly, we still don’t know if King was turning his flame on and off intentionally or if he’s grown accustomed to his body constantly changing states. 2. You already hint at it but I think it’s worth reiterating that Albert Einstein didn’t even work on nuclear weapons, he only petitioned for this research to be done. Similarly, I’m sure Vegapunk asked the WG for funds to build this power plant, and his success led to the WG packaging it into a weapon. That’s why he’s so similar to Einstein, he may have thought about the concept but he never directly lifted a finger to make a weapon out of the Mother Flame. Anyway, that’s all I got, hopefully this makes some sense lol

[steady prism]

Do you want to elaborate a bit? Is there any evidence from what she’s told us about her past that led you to think she was a slave?

[wispy kayak]

She had knowledge of slave values dropping once injured. Also, it'd be strange for her to have a dream to see Wano if she wasn't prevented from doing so in teh past because what would have been stopping her?

Wano was open back then.

[urban quail]

what if imu has the sea water devil fruit and DF users arent actually weak to seawater but its just imu's awakening that's weakening them?

[serene nimbus]

Thanks! And yeah Im positive it’s a fusion reactor. I was researching it and found that the wiki confirmed it. On lunarians they r so mysterious, but important. The key to understanding it is prob in the mural but not enough is known yet to get it.

[steady prism]

Unless you have evidence/reasoning to support it, please use #manga-serious for quick “what ifs” like that

[deft prawn]

how does ussop replenish his ammo? does he grow it or what?

[dark cedar]

questions are probably better for #manga-serious, but to answer it: yeah, it was explained in an SBS that he grows Pop Greens on the Thousand Sunny, and it can actually be seen in Film Z

[deft prawn]

i thought i was in manga serious Xd Sorry and thank you

[fallow knot]

Pretimeskip =Post timeskip

Boss. Navy. = Wg
Final boss Blackbeard = Imu

1. Arlong arc = Fishman arc

2. Arabasta saga = Dressrossa arc

3. Sky island arc = zou arc

4. Water 7 saga = whole cake arc

5. Post ennies lobby = Reverie arc

6. Thriller Bark arc = Wano arc

7. Sabaody arc (As Roger' crewmate saves strawhats and Kuma who knows luffy is Nika let them escape) = EGGHEAD arc- (Here Ancient robot Joyboy's crewmate saves them and The giants who knows Nika bring strawhats to elbaf Maybe Kizaru helps them after listening Vegapunk message)

8. Amazon arc = ELBAF arc I think here as Loki first not accept strawhats and challenge them like Hancock and later when strawhats wins thier challenge and Strawhats learn the truth of the world maybe the national treasure
   9.Impel down Arc = Maybe Mariejoa or maybe Pirate island
   10.Marineford arc = Final war

People may know about these similarities but I think we can get some ideas about the future story arcs if we connect the situations of the past arcs to the current and future arcs.

[winter vortex]

he knows how to get it, but he doesn't exactly know where because he was sick the day they voyaged out to find the treasure, and shanks stayed with him

[winter vortex]

wait this is a really nice map, a very interesting way to connect

[valid island]

I think Akainu and Dragon will clash soon plus i believe they will fight Imu Sama

[inland cobalt]

108 is a very important number in Buddhism fwiw being the number of earthly temptations one must overcome which fits very well with the idea “he flew too close to the sun” as he fell victim to his temptation to experiment with something too dangerous

[mellow axle]

n shanks too right

[inland cobalt]

I don’t think they do laugh tale requires specific coordinates to reach

[olive jolt]

Elbaf - amazon lily makes a lot of sense, considering Amazon is a female only island, while Elbaf is like a big guys with muscle only island

Ofc they have women there, but it is clear mirrored opposition since giant bulky guys remind you of exaggerated masculinity

On impel down, they went down to hell…

On the arc after elbaf they will go up to “heaven” to cause chaos in an institution that limits peoples freedom (marie jois), the house of the gods
I see a SH being captured and luffy invading marie jois to save it, maybe with the AK robot with him

If we are to consider the going down route, could mean the one piece is underwater or a fishman island incident that brings about its destruction

[fallow knot]

Both are warriors tribe island connected to void century maybe from Nika too bcoz amazonians are called to be daughters of God of war.So maybe they are also the race who worships Nika.

[harsh jacinth]

Isn't this pretty popular? Like most fans should have the connections already.
Even the power at Alabasta and Dressrosa is the same/upgraded version of the DF.

[fallow knot]

U haven't read the last part.i said we can predict the situations in the upcoming arcs this way.

[olive jolt]

Considering impel down was a sneaky invasion, blackbeard might invade marie jois or elbaph in a sneaky manner…

It also brings me to shanks, he arrived at the very end of marineford to balance the scales…maybe at final war against imu he shows up to stop the unnecessary slaughter of CDs or complete destruction of wg structures

[harsh jacinth]

I did, there are tons of reddit post about predicting the future arc. I just edited it, so i could put more info about 😅

[fallow knot]

But why shanks will come to balance the final war.Its a final war that everyone will participate anyways.

[slender fulcrum]

Mother flame is the pendant of Uranium , fueling Uranus.
There might be another fuel needed to power Pluton, based on Plutonium

[fallow knot]

I think Blackbeard will capture pluton and Poseidon and then Luffy and Coby will go to pirate island.

[coarse gull]

goo

[olive jolt]

Haki maybe? Pluton is Hades, god of the underworld, and haki is the color of the supreme king (the devil is red)

[tawny osprey]

Has anyone had any Better theories on man marked by flames we know it’s not Saul now since he’s just chillin in a forest listening to vegapunk message

[olive jolt]

I thought it wasnt him, but the announcement seemed to really answer the question, since saul is shown exactly when VP is talking about poneglyphs

[fallow knot]

if we consider that Bigmon had the Fishman island's road poneglyph,it means all 4 poneglyph were spread to Joyboy's allies.
So maybe someone from Elbaf has the road poneglyph. It may be Loki.

[wispy kayak]

The myth of "All Blue" is actually a tale of the world flooding.

[olive jolt]

Yep, giants, fishman, mink and samurai

[fallow knot]

It wasn't actually world flooding.But before the void century there might be only one ocean but after the great flood prediction they divided sea by making red line,calm belt

[jaunty phoenix]

"he flew too close to the sun" is also a major reference to the story of Icarus and Daedalus where they both started flying with wings of feather joined by wax. Icarus was told to not fly too close to the sun or the wax would melt and he would fall into the sea and die. This is what took place despite the warning from Daedalus. Here vegapunk flew too close to the sun and the world is gonna fall into the ocean, as in flooded and die.

[wispy kayak]

green blood is just Mt Dew. Franky will use cola to cool new version of mother flame.

[loud nimbus]

Yeah definitely draws inspiration from the Norse myths of Ragnorak. Giants from jotenheim waging war against the gods at the end of the world.

[serene nimbus]

Yeah saw that too. It potentially having double meanings is so crazy oda is so good

[ivory urchin]

How old is Ryuma?

[royal blaze]

at the age of 47 he passed away due to an unknown illness

[zenith imp]

i have a theory which is about the rumor of the gorosei all having the ope fruit because they are older than they should be alive at and they put a high price on the ope fruit. now my theory states that the gorosei have 3 different possible powers 1st option being they dont have the ope fruit and instead have a fruit that lets them transform into animals such as in the latest chapters 2nd option is that they just have these transformation powers for some reason and have an ope fruit as well (also all of these fruits would have been given by doflamingo when he was still a warlord thus explaining corazone dieing for giving it to law) and the third option is that the goroseis powers are from devil fruits and someone else with the ope fruit used the immortality surgery on them (as far as i understand ope fruit this would make sense) and as to anyone wondering why cant they jist have both well its becuse the gorosei are still alive (eating 2 devil fruits kills the user)

[frozen birch]

Friendly reminder to everyone this channel is for high-effort theories. Please take jokes and similar nonsense to the other channels @wispy kayak

[slender fulcrum]

The man marked by flame is probably a fake or a fable spread by Elbaf's to Lure pirates far away

[inland cobalt]

I seriously doubt it's a fake that would make no sense narratively at all

[wispy kayak]

my comments were not nonsense or jokes fyi

[frozen birch]

one-liner speculations and predictions may as well be. this channel is intended for high effort theories, please review the channel description

[wispy kayak]

I disagree with your judgement.

I also can't post pics yet or I could supply better arguments.

[wispy kayak]

Now we know the name Mother Flame, i'm wondering if the official translation is in fact man marked by "flames" if so, maybe it's not traditional markings we should be looking for.

[frozen birch]

that's fine, I'm just letting you know what the purpose of this channel is. dropping one-liners like "green blood is mt dew, soda is cooling the mother flame" is just simple speculation

[wispy kayak]

thanks

one liner alert: Seagrass is the only marine plant that bears fruit, I get the feeling the frozen straw hat may be made from this seagrass or something and is being preserved because it's possible link to the fruit it is related to.

[swift zephyr]

Mmmm, I think that the gorosei are demons who have conquered the world, I think the current ones don't know many things, because actually there are other demons like the gorosei, who are not currently in the world, or they are quiet doing nothing, because it seems strange to me that the only one left is Imu, alone to have won against joyboy.

Another thing may be that it is Imu himself who has a power that summons demons, so as before, these current ones are new summons and the old ones he keeps aside.
That's because they dont Age, they have infinite regen/immortality, telepathy, teleport and no fruit name.

[steady prism]

What's the larger point you're trying to make here? Why are you connecting the frozen straw hat to a fruit? Why would the frozen strawhat at Mariejoa be related to a fruit? Seems like a very vague connection as it stands right now.

[steady prism]

Why are you saying the Gorosei have the ope fruit? The fruit itself doesn't give the user eternal life. I don't understand why option #2 would be possible in this case. On the other hand, options #1 and #3 are certainly possible and the latter has been a common theory in the community.

[cyan widget]

I was thinking about Blackbeard's special lineage and I'm wondering if he, like Shanks, is related to a Celestial Dragon but abandoned and unlike Shanks who was found by Roger, BB had to fight for his life on a hostile, snowy island

And that would explain why, like both Shanks and Doffy, he mostly avoided the ire of the WG before capturing Koby and before his Yonko title

Maybe he's the bastard child of a Celestial Dragon and because only one of his parents would be a CD, that's why they abandoned him and Blackbeard wants to aim for the throne

[serene nimbus]

could be some ties to a CD. i was thinking earlier and originally there were 8 seraphim in the bible, gods closest angels but then lucifer fell from heaven and became the devil and then there were 7 seraphim. there are 7 serpahim in one piece based off 7 warlords and the 8th one we saw is BB, so there could be some times to imu and CDs. imu clearly knows BB cause he had his poster

id be surprised if he doesnt have a history relating to red line at all

Imu is obviously representative of god so that’s what the biblical representation would be if he is the 8th seraphim

[cyan widget]

It just makes too much sense to me. Doffy was also kicked out of the holy land and it turned him into someone even more cruel than Blackbeard.

[serene nimbus]

He also knew bout lunarians who lived on red line

[wispy kayak]

One of the biggest symbols in One Piece is the straw hat, so I find the fact that we have a government with a frozen one interesting. Why would they freeze it? I think a reason could be to preserve it because it had scientific value by possibly containing the lineage factor of a fruit they've failed to get for centuries, the Nika fruit, and they've been experimenting with alternative methods of DF transmission as we saw with Bonney. Seagrass would be a cool medium for the fruit to spawn in since it has been used to make hats like luffys in the past, and it also has the unique property of bearing fruit as a marine plant.

[dark sail]

I watched a theory about the astronomical event happening on June 3
Where 6 planets will be aligned in a parade of planets

Mercury Mars Jupiter Saturn Uranus and Neptune

Someone also said Oda sensei speculated this and will be releasing a banger chapter on this day 🥹

[steady prism]

Many people have tried to use irl events (Chinese new year zodiac animals, characters’ birthdays, etc) to predict potential content of future chapters. Since it’s not really a theory with in-story evidence/reasoning, please use #manga or #manga-serious for things like that

[tough mesa]

my theory is, that the D were the people who went against the celestial dragons in the void century, and the descendants all have that in their name :3 and the Devil fruits only existed after that, all of each representing characteristics or powers of a D person

[slender fulcrum]

I think its a bit more complicated than this.
If Joy Boy wanted to be free, maybe the ancient Kingdom was not that nice.
I'm not even sure both side of the war were nice or good.

[solemn briar]

THE NAME OF ANCIENT KINGDOM WAS ANKA

The Ancient Kingdom was said to be vast, proud, and powerful. All mentions of it and its history have been erased, with even its name remaining a secret. The name of Ancient Kingdom is still a mystery, author Oda has never mentioned it, but fans have made many different speculations. In this post, we will also make an interesting speculation.

Oda revealed that he is looking forward to drawing a pirate wearing an eye patch. Many theorize that he will be Luffy, but what if he is actually Joyboy? The first pirate of the seas.

Joyboy was born in an advanced kingdom and possibly injured his left eye, just like Luffy. Luffy wears a T-shirt with the word “Anchor” written on it. In nautical terms, an anchor is a tool used to secure a boat to the seabed, in a harbor or bay, preventing its horizontal movement. It must be strong enough to keep the boat anchored and easy to hoist when the ship needs to set sail.

Could the name of the Ancient Kingdom have been Anka アンカ (Anchor)? The Advanced Kingdom where the protagonist of this Laugh Tale was born.

The Japanese translation of “anchor” is いかり (Ikari), which resembles Icarus, the character from Greek mythology who flew too close to the Sun, had his wax wings melted, and fell into the sea.

Could Vegapunk be making this association, as he is soon to reveal the name of the Ancient Kingdom? Anka, like an anchor, was a mobile Kingdom that functioned as a ship or even as a flying vessel, and is now at the bottom of the sea.
It always caught my attention that at the end of the One Piece logo there is an anchor. If this logo represents the Grand Line, then at the end of the story do they need to reach Anka (anchor)?

Theory End

[last estuary]

This theory is a bit of a reach... At the start of One Piece, Luffy was known for not being able to swim even before he ate the fruit hence why his nickname was "Anchor", and Shanks was excessively making fun of him because what good is being a pirate if they cannot swim.
Icarus Wings was referring to Vegapunk himself. He flew close to the truth and died for it.

[solemn briar]

Well
We know that Shanks made fun of him cause he didn't know how to swim, that doesn't mean that having "anchor" nickname isn't an introduction to something else

Same with icarus wing, I know it symbolize vegapunk falling after getting close to truth, but it also could be foreshadowing of ancient kingdom name.

[olive jolt]

Sounds good, but the name of AK probably needs to have an instant impact or realization, something somewhat tangible considering how much suspense is involved

[dense lava]

hey guys, im looking to introduce a couple of friends to odas insane foreshadowings and/or old theories that this community had regarding cover stories or numbers

by ''this'' community i dont mean the discord but the op community as a whole, like theories and speculations back then at orojackson.org or even yt videos and reddit posts

[solemn briar]

Best thing you could do when introduce them to one piece, is by letting them read it, without introducing the community to them, that protect them from spoilers

[dense lava]

haha, i wont introduce them to the community, i am currently watching it WITH them together and sort of ''guiding'' as little as possible while we are watching it. i never spoiler them or even try to get them to the right idea, but often add fuel to a fire that oda started to get them to think about possible outcomes in one piece, so that they start to have their own ''theories'' you know? I think theories and speculations are a KEY part of watching one piece and because they are pretty late to the story, i want to get them close to the feeling of reading theories and thoughts on what could happen and what the d means and who a specific person on a cover story is and how oda is outside of the main story also a genius at foreshadowings, so i want to pick out theories that were popular back then, and i wanted to start off with some stuff thats easy to digest, like showing them cover stories with foreshadowings and hints in them. it blew their mind once i showed them after the fact that sanji is a vinsmoke, that oda has been hinting at sanji being a prince for a long time trough cover pages and numbers and titles

and i'm looking for more incidents like these, where oda made some crazy foreshadowings through panels and cover stories mainly, before introducing them to big theories about what the D might mean or everything else thats really complex.

[solemn briar]

Nah, let them enjoy the show without teasing them with theories and foreshadowings

[dense lava]

i only showed them some hints from oda and they want more, what can i do 😄 its better if i, myself see it first so i can assure that they will not be spoilered, otherwise they will browse the communities themselves looking for discussions and theories :/

my fav theoriest is marco on yt, marco the theorist, and they wanted to see if anyone couldve thought of sanjis being a prince and connected the dots so i showed them his video on it from way back. now they want more this but everything else marco has done, is going to spoiler them so i cant show it to them, i need stuff from around that time that was popular :/

[strange delta]

guys do u think we are going to laughtale after egghead, and skipping elbaf?

[vast plume]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[whole root]

Just saw a interesting theory and wanted everyone’s opinions. I haven’t seen it mentioned here but if it has then I apologize. Theory: Choppers devil fruit is gonna be one of the deadliest in the world and that’s why the world government is keeping his bounty so low so nobody suspects it. Evidence: everyone else with a zoan devil fruit is based off a mythical creature except chopper. Also Luffy and choppers devil fruits are both variants of the human human (hito hito) fruit. Thoughts?

[slender fulcrum]

Like Atlantis? xD

[fervent root]

The ending of Egghead

As we know Nami, Brook, Usopp, Chopper, and Lilith are at the sunny. I think they’ll be forced to escape on to the ocean. While the other Strawhats (and Bonney) have to go on the giants ship. As they leave they see egghead burning to the ground and the Goro sei warping up. (Imu summoned them) and it cuts to York who they left behind holding the last den den mushi while slowly burning away. Killing everyone

[coral raft]

What about the flying one

[kind tusk]

You forgot stussy inside the dome protecting the vegapunk record, the dome is allready activated.

[fervent root]

Edison? I think he probably is dead

[coral raft]

No I meant gorosei ….how are they gonna escape when he can just chase them

[fervent root]

OH good point tbh I forgot about Mars. I think Imu will forcibly retreat them

[kind tusk]

Should talk this in #manga-serious
Instead in here

[coral raft]

I don’t think imu is the type to take risks …..like the only reason he might recall is cuz he might want luffy to progress more in his joyboy form and fight luffy when he reaches joyboy’s power level or smthing like that ……which has extremely low chance of…so yeah I don’t see that happening …..but I do see that robot is coming and the people who vegapunk called at start and asked for help …

[wispy kayak]

I'd love to see some of the straw hats ride with the Giants.

[dawn hemlock]

I humbly ask, does anyone have a good theory why momo is the sole person the can speak to zunesha. The easy answer is that he is a part of the kozuki clan but i feel like we really need to know more. Before him we saw what shirahoshi could do

[wispy kayak]

I love this mystery, especially the way we saw the gorosei talking to one another using the same method. Your shirahoshi comment is inspiring an idea to me that maybe Momo is one of the "sovereign" the sea kings were talking about..

That'd be really cool to me if that was true because then we could draw a paralell between fishmen island and Wano, and Wano is actually a sanctuary type thing too ( which is kind of is as a closed country ), which to me also explains why Toki was excited to visit Wano so badly.

[dawn hemlock]

yeah i get that we have momo, shirahoshi... but when the sea kings talked about two sovereigns i always asumed one of them was vivi

am i wrong about that?

momo has control of pluton, that is my theory, we are being distracted by the whole zunesha thing. Momo is the shogun of wano

so far in the one piece story there has been a controller of each ancient weapon and for me it makes sense that momo is that person, sorry to say

I´m sorry but this is not a productive response

[median wyvern]

Enel's connection with the tiny robots and the motherflame possibly being depicted on the wall in front of them. Are they comming back for it, and are the gorosei aware?

[deft prawn]

i had a theory that the wano walls werent to prevent a flooding but to keep wano safe from zunesha, maybe zunesha was manipulated into destroying wano but he warned them 800 years ago that he was being controlled or smth like that, so they built walls to protect against him, as zunesha's manipulator couldnt destroy the walls he just used his trunk to flood it (that's why people thought wano was flooded with rain water, it was instead zunesha's water) and that's his sin for what he's condemned to walk for eternity

[pure raven]

URANUS IS IN ELBAF
The Adam tree grows upto the secret safer entrance to skypiea mentioned as the summit of high west
It connect skypiea to Elbaf if I'm correct.
And they both worship the same sun god "Nika".

The Eve tree was expanding till fishman island which is exactly 10k m below sea just like skypiea is 10k m above.

I also believe we will meet Uranus in Elbaf if the connections of Adam tree and skypiea's summit of high west are real.
Cause Uranus is the "god of the skies" and Poseidon will save the Eve tree people that are fishmen, what if Uranus saves the sky people (of Adam tree).
Another thing that proves Uranus might be in skypiea/top of the Adam tree is
Pluton was introduced in alabasta (desert) but was found in wano (below a lake).

We came to know about Poseidon in the sky but it's in fishman island below the sea.
And we came to know about Uranus in fishman island makes sense if it will be in the sky.
Also Uranus means god of sky.

Uranus is in Elbaf/skypiea mark my words.

DID I COOK?

[vale plover]

You did cook. Although I think there is a sky island in Elbaf, I don’t think it’s Skypea. But I love the rest

[solemn briar]

Headcanon: it is Enel Island (the one he destroyed as a child)

[tough mesa]

my theory is im= immortal XD

[little linden]

Since the inverse of Imu is Umi, my guess he won't stop until the world is flooded with Umi. Maybe he will start flooding again after vegapunk's speech

[valid island]

So what do you guys think the five elders secret of their powers is?

[kind tusk]

Not exactly immortal,i remember ivankov say something about Sain imu when he revealed it, imu probably have the Eternal youth itself, the question was who hold that power before it gets to law?

[loud nimbus]

Well it inevitable, his lack of appearance leaves a big hole@in the story.

[loud nimbus]

Most likely, oda’s reveal of the civilization on the moon definitely has ties to the great kingdom, which is a big part of the one piece story. It’s the same effect of how dorry and brogy were introduce and the existence of elbaf. Started out insignificant at the beginning of the series but now as we near the end it’s a critical part to play in the mystery of one piece and void century. Enel and his role in skypiea as everyone saw was a microcosm of how Imu rules the world of one piece. Oda enjoys his small shows before casting an even bigger show that will make waves. As for Enel, given his high perch from the moon, a place which he has dreamed to possess, he may have little interest on what happening in the blue sea. But given what Vegapunk said that the planet will be covered by ocean. I bet the change in the planet’s geography will be noticed by Enel from his city on the moon. The serious changes might be enough for the self-proclaimed god to go and investigate on what happening to the planet that part of his well celestial landscape.

So likely his appearance will come later close to the end of one piece or at least when the mother flame is being continuously used by Imu to destroy the world.

[cold grove]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[median wyvern]

I think the motherflame was stolen from the ancient kingdom by joy boy, thus earning him the title of pirate.

[coral raft]

Didnt Vega punk make it

[steady prism]

Interesting idea, but unless you have more evidence/reasoning to support it, please use #manga-serious for shorter comments like that. This channel’s for longer theories

[median wyvern]

So to further that with some evidence, chapter 472's cover art depicts people with wings (like the skypieans) leaving what appears to be the moon, and landing on the earth. Above them is a depiction of the motherflame. It may have been tech that Stella learned from the ancient kingdom that was brought down from the moon.

[wispy kayak]

the way Oda loaded the term "pirate" is so brilliant here since Oda has also spent the time to explain to us that pirates are not heroes and the definition of good and evil changes by whoever is on top, so I think we'll get an event that shows an evil being defeated but then something like the kingdoms energy source is stolen at the same time by Joy Boy as he leaves or something.

[median wyvern]

This is right in line with how I'm thinking!

[upper gust]

Shorter thought. The gura gura no mi was slated as the power to destroy the world by the world government. Vega punk announced the raising of seawater by 1 meter would be preceded by an earthquake. What if the theories involving IMU, Weapons, the moon and tides etc are all red herrings and instead there is something going on with the crust of the world. Like the planet is becoming more tectonically active which has been pushing the red line further up, or something is causing the sea bed to rise which is in turn causing the flooding of the world. The knock up stream as well seems to be fueled by some sort of deep underground process happening as well albeit it somewhat different to Old Faithful. Gas builds up in a cave underwater. That must be a huge amount of gas underground. In order to save the world they will need to do something about the sea floor / mantle / crust of the world which will also in turn destroy fishman island which sits on the sea floor. Just a bored thought that has a few connections in the manga.

[tame mango]

Who do you guys think will be the man with the eyepatch?

Joy Boy or Rocks?

[wispy kayak]

I hope it's someone we haven't thought of like whoever gave Roger the straw hat to begin with.

[steady prism]

Please ask open-ended questions in #manga-serious

Let’s maybe move this convo there in the meantime if y’all want to brainstorm ideas

[wispy kayak]

Okay, you go and we'll follow 😄

[unique coyote]

I think Kuzan will betray Blackbeard. Blackbeard named his strongest subordinates "Titanic captains" and the Titanic sank after hitting an iceberg: who can represent an iceberg better than Aokiji in the One Piece verse? (Maybe we could see his devil fruit awakening too)

[scenic flare]

I see someone comment said, luffy hair in gear 5 mode is like mother flame

[unique coyote]

kinda like that

[grim agate]

interesting

[paper tree]

if a fishman eats a devil fruit he will sink but still live

[coarse gull]

hey

[olive jolt]

Considering gear 4 has flame tattoos all over, considering he used a flame attack recently, and also that he got hurt by flames, I can see something happening here

[subtle glade]

Rocks is dead

[upper gust]

Jack is a fishman. He was at the bottom of the ocean waiting to be rescued after Zou attacked their ship

[signal canyon]

could the nika fruit have been on laughtale and roger took it with him? (not trying to imply that the fruit is the treasure.... unless...?)

[last estuary]

No, it wouldn't make sense... according to the gorosei, the fruit has alluded them for ages.

[upper gust]

When making statements in theories you guys should be including material from panels from the manga that support your theory. You can type in !theories to see this channels genernal rule.

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[spring mural]

Theory about who is the man with the burn scar (and the consequence about a crew if it’s him)
I think it’s Jaguar D.Saul and here’s why : Saul knows things related to the Void Century since he told his crew to bring all the book remained after the Ohara incident (and the guy with the burn scar know where the last road poneglyph is). Also the face of Saul (and only his face) has been hidden by Oda since we know he’s alive, and we know how does he look like from Robin flashback, so the hidden face is probably for the burned scar, even though he got frozen by Aokiji (since ice can actually burn someone).
With all that in mind, we can suppose that Shanks got 3 road poneglyph (the one Saul knows where he is since Elbaf is Shanks territory, and the 2 given by Kidd’s crew which are the one at Zoo and Wano) and one left, the road poneglyph of Big Mom’s territory, so one day in the manga, Shanks will probably go fight Katakuri and the remained Big mom’s crew to take away the last road poneglyph for him.

[inland cobalt]

he has BMs poneglyph he took it from kidd

[pure raven]

is there any new theories on the ocean guide song sang by aokiji

as it says "the world saw the worlds beginning and knows the world end" and given what we just learnt about the plan to flood the world by the world goverment. could be a reach but i found it pretty interesting

[olive jolt]

Yo I hate to admit this makes sense

[strange quarry]

Since the straw hats have 3 road ponoglyphs already and the last island is the centre point of 4 points I’m pretty sure mathematically they can find the centre point with just 3?

[digital gulch]

ok what if the one piece is really "one day" and it's the day in time joyboy prepares for his treasure to be found - the only thing was toki was needed to make sure that this happened for joy boy, but odin's death delayed it for roger

i have 0 evidence so this isnt rlly a theory but it could be a random idea. idk

it would why toki said all that stuff while making sure wano would be free or something

[steady prism]

@median wyvern @clever fable please use #manga or #manga-serious if you’re looking to make short “what if” comments. This channel’s for longer theories like the ones pinned

[steady prism]

For naval ships irl, when they’re sailing, they need to figure out where they are in the ocean. To do that, they need to make what is called an “observation” from 3 references points (like a lighthouse) to determine their (x,y) position in the ocean. Assuming these Road Poneglyphs work kinda the same, only 3 of them will get you an (x,y) position but not the depth/z. If Laughtale is on a sky island or under water, they won’t be able to find it with just 3 poneglyphs. The SHs will probably need an (x,y,z) location. I talked a little bit about that in here: #manga-theories message

[steady prism]

It’s an interesting idea, I’ve heard many variations of that idea and why it could be. You say you have zero evidence, but Toki did learn from Oden that the time period she was looking for will happen in 20 years. Assuming that is the time period where Joyboy returns, that explains why she sent them that far into the future. Only thing I’d disagree with is Oden’s death did not delay anything from Roger. Roger died before him anyway so it’s unrelated.

[digital gulch]

Yea then nvm i forgot roger died first lmao

[steady prism]

Yeah lol nw

[red fractal]

Sharing a theory I posted on reddit - Op Op fruit's Perennial Youth Operation
Not sure if anyone has thought about this yet. But pretty much all operations Trafalgar Law performs, he also has the ability to undo. He can cut people and things, and then put them back together. Shambles, room, takt, mes can all be reversed. So why would the Perennial Youth Operation be the only one that can not be reversed? My theory is that Law poses the biggest threat to Imu as he is potentially the only one who can reverse Imu's theorized immortality. This might be why this fruit had such a big bounty of 5 billion berries, which is higher than any of the recent emperors. Only bounties higher than this were Roger and Whitebeard. My guess is that similar to the original Operation, the user has to sacrifice themselves. For example, assuming it is a procedure with steps A-B-C to grant immortality, you'd do C-B-A to reverse it. The cost would be the same, user's life. There are theories that Law might be inclined to perform the youth op on Luffy, but luffy isn't the type of person who would want that. So it makes more sense that Law will save Luffy at a juncture where Luffy might be in mortal danger from Imu. I envision him throwing a truth bomb that any Operation can be reversed by a skilled enough doctor, even the Perennial Youth Operation. Then proceeds to undo Imu's immortality and sacrifices himself in the process, proclaiming that his D comrades will bring another storm/dawn!

[fallow bobcat]

The surgery would theoretically not affect Imu's mortality though, just his aging so Law reversing it would only in theory age Imu to dust due to the years catching up, not help Luffy kill him

[vast plume]

When are you guy gonna gonna read the dam channel rule

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[north willow]

Theory 1: Red-Haired Pirates and Their Connection to One Piece

The Red-Haired Pirates, led by the enigmatic Shanks, have always piqued Curiosity among One Piece fans. This theory suggests that none of the Red-Haired Pirates are confirmed Devil Fruit users, thereby hinting at Shanks' knowledge about the potential consequences of consuming Devil Fruits near Laughtail. It is speculated that Shanks forbade his crew from eating Devil Fruits, as he understands the risks associated with approaching the final destination. If true, this would make the Red-Haired Pirates the only crew capable of obtaining One Piece. The connection between Shanks, the absence of Devil Fruit users in his crew, and his cryptic statement about claiming One Piece further supports this theory. Probability: 8 out of 10.

[delicate notch]

Devon said there are people going after the commodore's head, so maybe they're the god's knights. the gorosei could have sent them to hunt blackbeard after shanks spoke to them

[dark quail]

OH
Lunarians were considered to be inhabitants of the land of the gods

land of the gods was atop the Red line

thematically, doFlamingo flapping down onto dressrosa to claim the throne as it was 'rightfully' his, was right on the fucking money

i believe, just like in skypeia, ancient kingdom was forced to the planet which was a foreign environment, and because of the home terf advantage, the vikings (the 6kings) were able to take the ancient kingdoms tech like candy, the now seeming abundance of their divine gift changed the kingdom into one of greed, only for someone believing they are the rightful ruler of the planet decending on the capital with a handful of devout believers to take the throne and run it under the same banner, obliterating anyone who breathes of the coup, sitting on a stockpile of his races particular tool/tech that he took from the only place to get it, before obliterating the place entirely

Birka as a place is God Valley
Birkans are lunarians
wind dials are devil fruits
Skypeians that take shandora are the vikings
skypeians changing to modern skypeians due to abundance is the formation of the World Government
Enel quietly taking the throne after birkan destruction is Rocks quietly taking the throne after god valley
the land of the gods is the Red Line
Lunarians used to be considered those gods
lunarians are flaming bird people
Rocks is named Rocks because he is a lunarian
hes a red roc

i think the Rocks pirates are all people who knew the significance of who and what race Rocks was from, like the doffyfamily being able to see what Doffy was so much so that a handful of adults swore fealty to him as a near toddler

[misty rain]

Joyboy will the character wearing an eyepatch. Doflamingo was mocking Imu with his Jolly Roger. And whatever cause Joyboy to loose his eye will be a gag.

[hallow bear]

Vegapunk stated that there never was a gum gum fruit so its very unlikely oda will come out with "oh luffys a secret race that is exclusive to him, joy boy and whoever else"

Also I highly doubt odas gonna include any legit gods in one piece, anyone bearing the title of God will only be a thing because of either their achievements (like joy boy, Nika, luffy), rank in society (like the gorosei/celestial dragons and enel) or just rigjt time rigjt place (like usopp and maybe buggy later on)

[lunar violet]

Kizaru is probably gonna betray the government , and there are two signs as of why I say this .

1. In chapter 1090, the name of the chapter is kizaru , and the cover page is kuro, if you don’t remember who kuro is he basically played the long game with kaya(ussops friend) and ended up betraying her , maybe this is oda foreshadowing that kizaru is gonna betray the wg.
2. Maybe it’s a coincidence, but In kizarus first appearance in saboady , we see him holding a den-den mushi , and the first appearance of kizaru in egghead , we also see kizaru with a den- den mushi , maybe oda is foreshadowing that kizaru is gonna betray and he’s the one that has the den- den mushi for the broadcast!!

[finite lily]

I think this ship already sailed when he killed Vegapunk. He might retire like Garp/Sengoku, but still be active in the marines

[hardy trench]

I agree, though i feel like him holding the denden mushi might be a stretch. Would be cool though

I think he’ll betray the wg because this arc is about how nothing can wipe out someone’s humanity and because it best fits established patterns

The mechashark couldn’t be fully controlled, kuma stayed true to himself and remains bonnney’s protector no matter what happens, vegapunk berates stussy when she questions her humanity, and even lucci begs mars to let kaku live. There’s no doubt kizaru, who’s been shown to have a heart unlike lucci, will follow it at egghead’s climax.

As for patterns, the original 3 admirals are primary colors and of the new 3, fuji and gb are secondary and kizaru is the odd one out. Chances are he’ll be replaced with an orange admiral, and if he is he can’t be replaced without one last hoorah because:

Fujitora akainu aokiji have all showed signature attacks named/themed after their admiral codenames. If kizaru follows this pattern, he still has one big technique up his sleeve, and with the focus oda wants to give to the gorosei and their powers, kizaru probably won’t be using it on the straw hats and risk overshadowing them

[versed gyro]

It does. we already know Blackbeard has a special lineage. Saturn even says from that special person.

• If the D=Drum theory is true, then Blackbeard being introduced in the same arc that introduces the Will of D is a connection point between him and Joyboy. (even if D=Drum theory not true, it shows the importance connection between Blackbeard and will of D).
• 1 of 2 liberators in the main story (him and Luffy) - JoyBoy is a liberator with the Nika fruit (liberating god). Luffy carries JoyBoy's fruit and will. Blackbeard carries JoyBoy's bloodline (somewhat foreshadowed by/parallel to Ace & Luffy's relationship)

[digital tapir]

every D has the will of D how does that pertain more to blackbeard

[dark quail]

im so glad someone else finally is puling on the kuro thread

onehundred percent kizaru is either going to have a character defining moment, and die on the sunny, his fruit spawning on the tangerine trees,

or hes going to pull a kuro and say fuck it to both sides

i just cant wait for him to emote like kuro does when all masks are off

my theory is that the fruit that luffy has is specifically joyboys fruit, who wanted nothing more than to actually be nika

nikas fruit is out there, and if we were to go the poetic route, he likely only wanted for nothing more than to be a regular human

I think joyboy was a moon tanuki automaton (like those following enel now), but nika was something else, either actually made from rubber or of some actual demigod species that could change what material they are made of, like a shapeshifter for logias.

rubber being a natural enemy to water just as much as electricity would have made nika the perfect liberating god against a seemingly evil mother nature/ocean

maybe he was a robot but with an actual rubber logia, maybe he was the opposite side of the shapeshifting coin, being able to change his matter like a logia shapeshifter

problem is, joyboy could emulate the stretching and shapeshifting of nika, thanks to being a shapeshifting robot that never got an 'order' similar to the toy soldier in dressrosa, so when it came time to challenge the world, he got swatted down, as water can erode anything,

if fruits are from desires that is, the gum gum fruit is the desire of someone who wanted to be nika, grown from the remains of our good buddy joyboy,

especially if it was containing the 'soul/shadow/memory' of a tanukibot instead of likely the human/giant they thought they were dealing with, either being a form meant to keep its mind when changing forms, even if forcefully, or being of similar ear ancient tech, it lines up with how long the government has been chasing it,

point is, i dont think the fruits are so straightforward in creation, the nika fruit not being grown from nika, but grown from someone whose desire was to be nika

which would cause a problem if someone was trying to bring back nika with the fruit that came from his corpse,

[versed gyro]

true, but I'm just pointing out that there's likely a huge significance that he's the first one introduced within the same arc as Will of D.

We see this a lot in One Piece where certain plot points are highly significant are introduced together end up being connected (e.g., poneglyphs first in Arabasta now unveiling that Lily was the one who scattered them, hole in Enies Lobby turned out to be a creation from the government, etc.)

even though Blackbeard is Luffy's FOIL, I'm theorizing there's a deeper connection between him and the void history. I feel like it's less of a reach than the "Sad boy" theory

[dark quail]

and what a clusterfuck it would be if nikas desire was to just be normal, or to be free even

although i imagine it could negate effects like Sugars, or Tama's if it was as simple as the power to be the free-est man in the world, a free-man to luffys rubber-man

hell, it might be strong enough to cut free a gorosei from imus possession

hell, it might be the perfect panacea

[deft prawn]

could the members of the gorosei be from the wano of 800 years ago?
after watching wano's map i thought the mount fuji's looked like imu's crown, with the 3 spikes at the top and everything, and the wano map is cut in 5 parts with the mount fuji in the middle (5 elders and imu), also, there's a elder with traditional wano clothing and a golden katana that could obviously be a Saijō Ō Wazamono
i also had the theory that old wano wasnt covered in rain water, but in zunesha's water, could wano have been a kind of "marygeoise" 800 years ago? and zunesha in a try of stopping them shot water over the giant walls, killing slaves in the process (and that's his crime), after zunesha's destroying the old wano, the gorosei decided to move to a higher place (the red line, actual marygeoise) far from zunesha

[last estuary]

Time to debunk:

It has been implied that the Gorosei are not from 800 years ago...
Imu's crown and mount fuji is kinda reaching. The shape doesn't even remotely resemble the crown.
Nusjuro is not wearing a traditional wano clothing... It's a traditional martial art uniform called keikogi.
Akainu has a sakura fubuki tattoo which is often associated with the yakuza. And in one cover story, he's seen trimming a bonsai tree. And his name sakazuki (or "sake cups"), refers to a formal ceremonial process in which two or more individuals form a bond akin to that of family in an exchange of sake cups. All of this corelate to him having a connection to Wano, doesn't mean that he's actually from there. Oda draws inspirations from multiple culture, so there's that.
No comment about the sword.
It has been confirmed that they had to relocate to the higher point of Mt. Fuji due to the rain water accumulating and flooding the old wano and pluton. Sukiyaki's words, not mine.
There was no "marijoa". You already know the story... 20 kingdoms joined forces and claimed victory. 19 of the 20 royal families relocated at the top of the red line where the holy land marijoa, that we know of, now currently stands.
Once again, the gorosei are not from that era.

[blissful seal]

Where was it implied that Gorosei isn't from 800 years ago?

[last estuary]

#also-manga message

[blissful seal]

The fruit became a legend now even for them because it hasnt awakened in 800 years. Them saying "the WG" instead of "we" isnt an indication of anything. It's just referring to the overall organization, aka the Gorosei but everyone underneath as well. Ju Peter's exclamation might just be because he was recruited later on as its been theorized. Saturn being the oldest of them all and Ju Peter being the youngest.

Either way I would say that it is implied they are at least older than the normal human. I wouldnt say that it's implied that theyre specifically not 800 years old

[last estuary]

I don't want to question your reading comprehension so let's just agree to disagree.

[blissful seal]

[grand walrus]

I agree with you that they weren't all recruited at the same time. I think it is very likely they were each recruited around a century apart because you need a user of laws fruit to grant them immortality and that means it needs to be found, and then someone needs to be forced to do the surgery, so its a process

[blissful seal]

Yeah, perhaps Saturn was recruited 800 years ago, and then another 700 years ago etc.

[blissful seal]

This channel is made for sharing thoughts and ideas, and challenging each others' thoughts and ideas. You won't insult me by challenging my perspective. It's not that serious, you can say that you think I misinterpreted because X and Y, I won't take it personally

[last estuary]

I am not trying to enforce anything here, or saying I'm right... BUT the evidence is clearly present there... I don't know what more can I add to convince you. "Era", "Legend", conveying the WG as "They" instead of "we" or referring themselves in a third person when they're clearly the highest authoritarian in public's eyes (second to Imu realistically) etc etc.

[blissful seal]

What I'm saying is that they might not all be from 800 years ago but its reasonable to believe that theyre at least several centuries old.

Using the third person when refferring oneself is something done by monarchs throughout history. Imu speaks of him/herself in 3rd person for example

[grand walrus]

If I had to guess, all the gorosei are from less than 800 years ago, because they don't have an emotional reaction to the name lily the same way Imu does, but there isn't enough evidence to disprove that 1 or more of them isn't from that era, I would argue that it gives the sense they weren't around for joyboys era though

[last estuary]

And what I'm suggesting is that all of them are NOT from 800 years ago.
None of them were stated to be one of the first 20.
"Era" Each of them comes from a different era because of the availability of the ope ope no mi. We briefly talked about this in here. #also-manga message
I think you missed my point here. "They" is referring to their predecessors because it's imperative to have an overseer through the narrative perspective.
"Legend" This is the part where I insulted you (it was a joke). It's clearly stated that the fruit itself became a legend for them, not because it hasn't awakened.
Gorosei has never referred themselves in a third person. Notice how they say, "we" or "I" implying the orders were given through them. And in the next panel, they say, "the World Government" instead of "we" when Nusjuro was talking about the failure of acquiring the fruit for 800 years. Now, now... why would they say that when they ARE the World Government. Do you know what im saying... Imu is an exception to this rule.
Ju Peter throwing shades at the World Government.
I'm on my phone so sorry about the late reply.

[steady prism]

It's hard to find evidence that the Gorosei are 800 years old. Ju Peter is quite younger than the rest of the Gorosei but clearly knew that the Gomu Gomu df is the Sun God Nika df (ch1044), but didn't understand why the WG would bother to change this df's name if it is basically something that's a legend to the Gorosei (ch1037). Even Topman Warcury's confusion in ch1037 was strange if he was from 800 years ago and was a part of the decision to change the Nika df's name to Gomu Gomu. The confusion in the WG's past decisions and their slowness in ordering for Luffy's execution is what made me believe they aren't that old. Most of this is kind of what Soshi already said, but I'm just explaining my thought process.

However, we did see that Saturn looks the exact same 38 years ago in God Valley (ch1096), so his lifespan at the minimum is longer than expected. Not sure if it's several centuries, but definitely longer than the typical human. I can even rock with the idea that they're from different eras of humanity (based on when the Ope-Ope no mi was acquired by the WG and awakened).

[left brook]

So tht means Goroseis are actually replacable?

[blissful seal]

What I'm saying is that they might not all be from 800 years ago

"It's hard to find evidence that the Gorosei are 800 years old."

We are agreeing lol

[blissful seal]

thats from the unofficial chapter though

and yeah even then, I wouldnt look at what your pointing at and come to a conclusion concerning their age

either way, I think all of us are agreeing. But I would also add that this is all speculation so far, theres really no hard proof of anything concerning their age. Whether they be 800 years old or just 80 years old, or somewhere in between (except Saturn as Bec pointed out)

[slender fulcrum]

They might be around 300/400 yo imo. But not older

And this proves also that there was many figures changing at the head of the WG

[vale plover]

Mother flame is an attempt to manufacture the eternal flame but failed (cuz it isn’t eternal). But I believe maybe Nika is the eternal flame (or can be one of the a sources for it) and that Nika is an energy like mother flame, which explains why Luffy turned on the robot aka power it up.

Cuz even Lilith suggested making her own sun with the eternal flame (maybe Oda referencing sun god Nika)

I think the thing that sold me most in this theory is that Luffy was a power source for the ancient robot tbh

[blissful seal]

I think maybe Saturn is 800 years old, and then another is 700, then 600 etc.

[steady prism]

Yes 💯 we are on the same page. I was just trying to close the loop on the initial question

[blissful seal]

[last estuary]

I read your reply earlier and I'm glad that we are both agreeing on something 👍
BUT Saturn can't be from 800 years ago because that would make him one of the first 20... I could be wrong though and I'll gladly take the L. This is just a mere speculation.
If anything, I feel like Saturn could be the youngest out of the 5 from the way Oda has treated him so far.
From his presence on God Valley (we don't see the other gorosei besides him, so far), to him being chosen to visit Egghead in person. You could chop it down to VP and Saturn, both, being men of science and he was needed to secure the important technology in the island or his connection to Kuma/ Bonney, but WHY HIM? It really gives off the older-younger sibling vibes.

[blissful seal]

Be one of the first 20? Not necessarily

[blissful seal]

what chapter was that ?

[slender fulcrum]

none are 800 yo. None believed in Nika's existence or its power. and some secret of the WG are even lost to them. Only Imu knows.

[blissful seal]

? They know about Nika, it's just that they couldnt believe that someone managed to awaken the fruit after 800 years of nothing

[slender fulcrum]

they didn't know about nika since it was a legend, even for them. Implying that the history of it was so old for them they didn't even knew it was true. since we know that the nika's power was a thing during the void centry, they can't be 800 yo

[blissful seal]

No they knew about Nika theyre the ones explaining details about Nika during the Kaido fight

[slender fulcrum]

What I meant about " they didn't know " , is that they didn't knew it was real, it was a legend. Surely someone being 800yo and living those event would never say it's a " legend "

[blissful seal]

the fruit* not Nika himself

[slender fulcrum]

you can play on word, knowing about nika, does not mean you acknowledge it exists or that its power were real, and that what I said. None believed in Nika's existence or its power

We all know about Captain America but nobody believe he's real or existed

[blissful seal]

play on word ? Topman says "that fruit is only a legend now, even to us. It has not ***awakened *** for centuries upon centuries"

[mighty moon]

tbh honest oda retconned the fruit so nothing really makes any sense of why the gorosai is only finding about the nika fruit now

[blissful seal]

yeah they tried to take it themselves via Whos Who

[mighty moon]

Ya but then thy got robbed by Shanks and then they didn't bother looking for it again? doesnt seem very gorosaiey

[last estuary]

You have to give me a better response than "not necessarily"

[blissful seal]

cuz killing luffy would just make the fruit reappear somewhere else and killing Luffy would just enrage Shanks and Dragon

[mighty moon]

Well just capture him

[blissful seal]

why does he have to be one of the first 20 ?

[last estuary]

Why wouldn't he be if he existed 800 years ago when the WG was founded

[blissful seal]

explain how would that help in any way shape or form, and how it wouldnt cause Shanks and/or Dragon to go after them

[mighty moon]

Well we dont now how df reincarnation works it could be the closest fruit like smiley

[last estuary]

Not necessarily. It's completely RNG

[mighty moon]

Cause what are they gotta to do against the world goverment Dragon is already the Leader of the rev army and cant do shit and maybe with Shanks cause he is a CD

[blissful seal]

why does he have to be part of the 20 is my question and even then, he might as well be one of the 20

[mighty moon]

We dont know that Cause we didnt know Where doffy got aces fruit and smileys was reincarnation on the same island

[blissful seal]

So you're confirming that it would be a stupid decision

lets move to #manga-serious

[mighty moon]

No im just saying what will Dragon do and Shanks crew doesn't know about nika or Shanks being a cd so Shanks is going to 1 v5 the gorsai and win probably not?

[blissful seal]

Shanks literally stole the fruit from them, so again I dont understand how it would be a smart decision trying to go after Luffy. They made this whole point of making Guernica kill Luffy in Wano because they could cover it up as Kaido killing Luffy, instead of themselves

[last estuary]

Because he's the figurehead of his family, and had he existed 800 years ago, he would be one of the first 20... like I've said, I could be completely wrong and I will gladly take an L.
And also, Saturn gives me the younger brother vibes because I can relate. He could be even younger than Ju Peter just because of availability of the ope ope no mi.

[blissful seal]

yeah this is just speculation

[last estuary]

No, it's completely random. Smiley's fruit circulating to the nearest fruit was Oda's way of showing how the process works. If anything, Ace's fruit could have spawned to the closest fruit I.e. panrty inside the HQ. It's random

[mighty moon]

True i see where your coming from but gorosai can just take it back lol kill luffys with CP0 early in his journey is a common sense decision they whole job is killing people without people knowing and they should be more on the ball with where the fruit went i think at the latest Enis Lobby or Albasta they should have 100% knew luffy had the fruit

[blissful seal]

Its not because they knew that Luffy had the fruit that it's a smart decision to go after Luffy, as long as you agree/understand with that I'm cool

and even then

they have tried multiple times in the past, but then Shanks took it away from them

[mighty moon]

that still doesn't mean they can't go after the fruit again

[slender fulcrum]

It's not a retcon, because they tried to get their hand on it " just in case " the legend were true, like avoiding unnecessary bad development ( return of nika's somehow ) , we might even think that it was an order from Imu and the Gurusei did not knew why Imu asked them taht

[blissful seal]

because that would mean war against Shanks and Dragon lol, we've established that together already and you agreed

[mighty moon]

Well the fruit change is by definition a retcon and the gorosai did know about the fruit look at the panel above

[olive jolt]

This panel made me think of Nika escaping the WG grasp the same way lilly escaped it. Just like eve stole the fruit from the tree and gave it to adam, we could see adam here as joyboy and nika fruit having its own will of wanting to be free and looking for the most free man of them all (luffy)

Now, who was the most free man 800 years ago? The first pirate, the first man

[loud nimbus]

From Vegapunk’s message about the revelation that joy boy was the first pirate….does this narrative feel like that the ancient kingdom wasn’t such a great utopia that fans originally believed? I mean advanced technology a dna coerce one would assume that it’s be paradise on Earth. But now we have the fact that the kingdom gave birth to the first pirate, a definition which means rebel or criminal. So it leads to the question of why a guy like Joyboy would leave his home to the sea? If his life parallels the current incarnation aka Luffy, who left home due to wanting to be free and having enough of the rigid social restrictions of his homeland . did we misunderstand the ancient kingdom of being a peaceful nation wiped out by an aggressive force, or in fact that the latter were actually liberators that grew corrupt with power over the centuries? Joyboy according to Vegapunk was said to be akin the an even older figure in history/mythology the sun god nika who brings liberation. It makes me suspect that king boy maybe was not an ally of the ancient kingdom but perhaps he was a rebel and sided with the 20 kingdoms for some reason.

[slender fulcrum]

a retcon is when a known element is changed to fit a narrative, creating plothole because it break other plot point that do not fit anymore.

The fact that the Nika Nika no mi was renamed " Gomu Gomu no mi " and that the elder actively tried to get their hands on it based on legend or rumor, trying to rule out the possibility that the legend could be true is not a retcon. The only thing it did for them is to prove that it was not a mere rumor nor a legend and all their fear was confirmed, and confirming too that the name change was indeed real and not a rumor and that their predecessor tried to hide it at some point.

The only question mark that's left is how would they know that luffy fighting Kaido would reach the awakening at some point and that it urged them to try to stop it
Surely they know 100% what condition are required for a fruit to awaken, or there is an unkown prophecy stating this , I dunno, but it was weird

[steady prism]

Sorry this convo moved over to #manga-serious just fyi. We hashed out most of it I think

[upper gust]

It could have been that the advanced society caused fear in the other nations by being able to better provide for all of the citizens which loosened whatever rule they had over them. It seems like nearly time after time the majority of the Kingdoms that we see participating in the Revery are abusive and power hungry. Their leaders view their own citizens as expendable. The Nefetaris and Fishmen seem to be the only exception so far, and they are not part of the 19. The heads of these kingdoms in the Gorosei had no problem with deleting an island just to test a weapon out.

Vegapunks idea of providing unlimited power to the world is what I think that kingdom represents because he says that he cannot even get close to their output. Providing unlimited amounts of power would require less oil, coal, etc. Things that kingdoms would historically be putting people to hard labor to obtain for them. It would also probably make traditional forms of weaponry less appealing as well. Taking out the most advanced civilization on the planet and then destroying heritage could be viewed as an event like burning down the library of Alexandria and the world being in a dark age afterwards.

[lyric yarrow]

After We leave egg head what might the plot be im thinking CP0 might follow them like Smoker did in Alabasta.

[vale plover]

Chapter 1065

[last estuary]

#manga-serious message

[tardy radish]

Could definitely be the case or joyboy could have just had dreams to set to the seas bc he was like Oden and too big for the kingdom(no pun intended based on recent spoilers). Seems like the ancient kingdom was a place where technology was so advanced peoples dreams and wishes could come true. New species and the devil fruits were likely the outcome of this. Joyboy probably just saw the evils of the other nations while at sea and then lead his kingdom to war over it. The title of pirate probably was given to him by the 20 kingdoms bc he liked to fight at sea. The species that resided in the Ancient Kingdom have been hunted since including those who inherit the will of D. which is likely tied to the creation of devil fruits. Somehow the power to wish the impossible into existence.

[coarse gull]

oh

[bronze skiff]

oh

[loud nimbus]

Still it beckons the question of why a person from a place of wonders would travel outside or leave. From our limited vantage point, a marvelous civilization sounds like a paradise. But we fans of one piece know that there is always a dark side to things. A lot of media uses lost civilizations as a feature in books, tv shows, movies. And nearly in all of those the lost civilization wasn’t always so benevolent or responsible. You could be right in that the title pirate was given to Joyboy by the 20 kingdoms. Though I find it odd that Joyboy is referred to as the first pirate. We know from Vegapunk that he was akin to the much older myth of sun god nika, who originated from the giants of elbaf who are a raider culture which are technically pirates. So does that mean the giants of elbaf become a raiding culture after Joyboy?

[tardy radish]

Yeah maybe. I still think Joyboy was probably just seen as a trouble maker within the ancient kingdom similar to how characters like Luffy, Usopp, Franky, and Oden were. Everything we have learned about Joyboy so far is that the World Government fears the return of Nika and that it appears he fought along side the ancient kingdom. I don’t believe Joyboy would fight with the ancient kingdom if he knew they were an evil kingdom.

[dusty dirge]

Odin?

[tardy radish]

Yeah maybe Sun God Nika is just a myth and Joyboy just happened to reflect the ideals of Nika rather than his own person? Also I think the world of One Piece looked vastly different 800 years ago. There might have been significantly less water so the idea of exploring the world by boat might not have been the best method. There have been many signs that the sea levels have risen a considerable amount over the years. Joyboy hitting the seas could have been after this major change making him the first “pirate”

[loud nimbus]

Still as great as the ancient kingdom was I still find it hard to believe that it fell to 20 lesser nations. And while they may have been outnumbered was that really all? Empires don’t just fall overnight due to a hostile force. For one they would need an edge to get the ancient kingdom by surprise….so that leaves a traitor or betrayal by someone within the ancient kingdom. Given that Joyboy was a known rebel, I fear it may have been him. Though I doubt it was with malicious intent, maybe he was manipulated by the 20 kjngdoms, like Luffy he could have been naive and too trusting. Perhaps the fear the world government has is not the threat of liberation of the world but revenge

[tardy radish]

Yeah I agree it is definitely strange that they lost to the lesser nations. Maybe that is where the power of Imu and the elders comes in. Maybe they were the ones who betrayed the Ancient Kingdom.

[loud nimbus]

I doubt the elders are that old. Saturn’s skills as a scientist doesn’t match with the caliber of the technology of the ancient kingdom. Even for all his so called scientific prowess Vega punk a scientist for hire got the drop on him.

[dusty dirge]

Older doesn't necessarily imply more intelligent

[loud nimbus]

Crazy theory, but could the name the Will of D be associated with Deucalion? There’s been so many references to a great flood that’s coming, I found that the name Deucalion is from a Greek myth….Greece’s Noah as it were. Said to be the son of Prometheus who survive the great flood sent by Zeus. He and his wife Pyrrha were the two survivors and the progenitors of humanity. Interestingly is the etymology of the names Deucalion’s name comes from deukos which means sweet wine and from halieus which is sailor or seaman. Is it just me or can that be applied to Luffy who is a pirate? And bink’s sake which is hinted to be associated with joyboy? And more interesting is the name of Deucalion’s wife…..Pyrrha which is derived from pyrrhos or “flame-colored, orange”….who does that sound like in one piece.

[tardy radish]

I looked it up and apparently he and his wife survived the flood by floating in a wooden chest. It would be a pretty cool parallel to Luffy floating in the barrel at the beginning of the story

[loud nimbus]

That’s too much of a coincidence. And it’s does not necessarily have to be Deucalion but even the word Deukos.

[steady prism]

@blissful crypt glad you enjoyed it, feel free to use #anime or #manga to discuss G5 Luffy

[celest oasis]

Idk if this is an already known theory but what if the sea rising is the world government trying to create another void century and wipe out the pirate era again because it got too out of hand. The first void century was when joyboy was active and they wiped them all out because joyboy failed. And now they’re trying to restart society again because gol Roger messed it up by creating more pirates and they don’t want anyone to know because then they would need to wipe out the whole planet to keep it a secret

[blissful seal]

I think it just means that the mother flame is dying of a slow death. you can already feel here that the fire is now not as strong as it was supposedly was once

it probably also weakens the more its used, which would mean that something like the Lulusia incident consumed a lot

[last estuary]

Ok and? They have the means to recreate it anyway

[blissful seal]

means to recreate the mother flame ?

[last estuary]

Yeah, that's why they're prioritising the power plant

[blissful seal]

you mean the weapon, im talking about the power plant

the mother flame

but yeah somehow theyre naming both the plant and the weapon the mother flame. but naming the plant "mother flame" seems like its what Oda will go for from now on, we'll see but I wouldnt be surprised if he gave the weapon another name. people have been saying it might be Uranus

[dark quail]

1/4
STEAM OF THE DARK SUN
SAINT IMU NE RONA

the real nature of the planet is what we see at lulusia and enies lobby
everything else is an illusion
clouds made of smoke and steam like the ones enel summons for deathpeia
but imus is letting everyones shadow pilot a body made of steam like theyre a physical hologram,
replicating their regular nervous system out of water, letting their actual synaptic electricity pilot a vapor body, the spark vegapunk talks about, the physical soul, the actual electrical signals traveling in your nerves that kuma could make physical
and because they dont know they are steam, that their environment is steam, or that imu exists,
imu can manipulate the steam, so that their physical interactions play out with eachother and their environment exactly as they would if they were the actual matter they thought they were made of

these shadows/souls were at one point living entirely inside of the ancientworld trees, valhalla, an afterlife where you are your shadow/soul that has been taken in by the world trees, the spirit world, the land of the gods, heaven (or hell)

thing is, the moon people showed up with tech just as miraculous, automatons, reincarnation fruit, physical steam holograms

and using it, the spirit world, the gods, were able to claim bodies that could walk around and interact with the physical living world, some were steam apparitions, some where robotic, some were piloting animals that ate their fruits

but someone did the math, and realized, the spirit world, the gods, they could reclaim the physical world with this tech, they combined them, turned miraculous immortality technology into perfect fascist weapons

and so the gods waged war, resulting in what we have now, a planet, covered in storm/vapor/ash/static, that is housing a nearly completely digital civilization, being allowed to walk around the planet in bodies that can be seen and can interact with reality like they never died, completely unaware of their situation

2/4 problem is, someone started burning trees
which frankly is a great additive to the conductivity of the giant cloud,
but comes with the caveat that there is no more harddrive to go back into,
the sparks inside having no place to be stored other than the static of the smoke
and like we know from kuma, the bad feelings will always return back to the person he took it from if he didnt take them all on himself, and like with ceasar, we know that the amalgamation of an element can be fed a fruit
imu is the ash of the burned trees, an amalgamation of the spirits stored in the trees, so thouroughly blended and mixed up, like big moms spreading of 'life or leave' fractions of her subjects souls that want to stay in totto land

if there was a blanket capture of souls, then bad people would likely be put in their own trees,
of which i can imagine there was one for each of the levels of impel down
acting like the buddhist/hindu hells, punishing people for their specific sins,

and that is who has the reins,

and the reason the planet is sinking, is because in addition to new shadows and spirits being created over time, the passing of time and what happens has to be recorded too,

the hard drive and the ram are filling up

imu needs vivi to add as a harddrive so she can continue the story, and shes flooding the world completely because she has to manually empty the servers and restart, or else the whole system crashes

If the whole system crashes, everything is lost

lulusia was just a regular lightning storm, one with enough electromagnetic presence to completely discharge all of the static electricity underneath it, deleting the files of lulusia entirely, it having never existed because theres no historical record of it anymore in the harddrive, a cylinder of reality no longer needing to be rendered, or even recorded over time, she manually reallocated resources to buy more time

enies lobby is different
enies lobby did that to themselves
they tried to leave

3/4 they pierced the veil, they popped the curtain, and when the rays of the actual sun hit the planet, it solar flared and their water vapor immediately lost all charge/spark and they were deleted in an instant, it now only having to record the matter and movement of the new island, and not any of the reality in the cylinder, all the way down to the sun never setting, it being the position of the real sun when they opened the curtain, the screen burned in like a dead pixel

i think nika was a similar vapor ghost, but he was inside of a fucking balloon. I think the vapor that he was composed of was something similar to the clouds that the dragons make, but being in a balloon, he was completely cut off from the rest of the planets vapor, and was naturally hydrophobic, the natural enemy of the kami, the same as luffy was to enel

joyboy was only an automaton though, not made of actual rubber, and so while he could shapeshift like nika, he wasnt a natural enemy of the gods and was likely completely manhandled by whoever was in control of imu at the time

imu stands for inertial measurement unit, and its the recording of the physical movements that new visitors to the planet as they move through the water vapor, creating a physical memory similar to a groove in a record, giving imu a program to run that emulates whoever was recorded, a hollow copy that would react exactly the same,

luffy will save everyone by inhaling all of the storm, they will then be able to take their own shape in luffys body, stretching out through his skin, completely encased by rubber/god/ and completely disconnected from imu, completely able to leave the planet, especially, if buggy cuts them away from luffy

if electricity is what keeps them going, and losing their spark kills them (rayleigh talks about roger regaining his spark in his sabaody speeches) then two balloons could recharge eachother by rubbing against eachother

like the minks do
and like the yonko do when their haki clashes

4/4 garp was punching battleships because he needed to keep his spark alive. concussive beats can generate the spark
the drums of liberation was delivering the spark wirelessly like tesla claimed we could do with electricity, just having to tune to the right frequency to access the band of power

awakening lets your haki override the program that imu is telling the storm to render the matter as, and lets you put in a new command,

if luffy rubberizes the air between the receiver (the iron giant) and his source of haki (his heart) he is more or less punching the reciever with kinetic energy thats being punched by his heart in a direct line to the reciever, transmitting spark

do that in a 360 degree wave and everything needing energy to operate is being powered by the physical beating and electricity of luffys heart

do that in a 360 degree wave and you have a fucking sun

rayleigh was the dogstorm to rogers cat viper, he said his home burned down when roger approached him for the first time because he was either guardian of a tree or lived inside of the harddrive of a tree but being able to get an 'escape pod' as it was burning, giving us the person we know now

[steady prism]

@zinc elm don’t be rude and try to hide it with emojis.

[zinc elm]

I don't get it whatd I do

I just wrote 'long'

[steady prism]

Yeah, a little rude considering they put effort into that. Feel free to engage with it properly, or go elsewhere

Haven’t heard of one yet, you could try #manga-serious maybe they’ll have ideas

[dark quail]

i think that might be the least mysterious mystery
the gears burn calories like mf 😉

[vale plover]

Exactly I believe that mother flame isn’t eternal flame, but both serve as Uranus’s power source. But you need a factory of mother flame to continue using Uranus’s power cuz it consumes a lot. I feel like Luffy is that power source for Uranus. Or resembles it. I believe this mostly because he power up the robot (which apparently needs a lot of energy to function) when he became Nika, the Sun god

[steady prism]

!theories @grand sail @woeful forge this channel is for long theories with plenty of in-story evidence/reasoning. Please use #manga or #manga-serious if you'd like to make shorter comments like that

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[woeful forge]

Imu might be the Umibozu devil fruit user.
first, vegapunk has theorized that devil fruits are manifestations of ideas or legends. we know the other gorosei have yokai/monster based devil fruits and have seemingly all or most of the abilities of those yokai or monster. what if the most powerful devil fruit of them all is the most mysterious and arguably most fearsome yokai, the umibozu? it would possibly be "most powerful" due to the idea that the sea couldve been extremely feared at the time before devil fruits existed (assuming they havent always existed); just like the original folklore surrounding the umibozu in real life: there were many disasters at sea and often in japan they were explained by the wilings of umibozu.
Interesting notes about the Umibozu's powers and physiology:

1. Red eyes and inky black body. almost always described as having piercing red eyes, something that both the florian triangle monster and imu have.
2. Shapeshifting and size manipulation. Umibozu are decribed as being complete masters of shapeshifting and can even become mountainous in size. often said to grow tentacles (like the one it used to attack sabo and cobra)
3. Dominion over the sea. possesses the power to manipulate the sea itself, the Umibozu can conjure colossal waves and control the weather.
4. Drain Vital Energy: In certain legends, it is believed that the Umibozu can drain the life force or vitality from its victims, leaving them weakened. can explain imu's long life without the use of Law's fruit
5. Invisibility. In some accounts, the Umibozu can render itself invisible.. which is pretty scary
6. Due to the description of how it can appear anywhere on the ocean it's possible Imu would also have teleportation.

[strange violet]

Let me cook rq. Everyone with the spiral eyes is associated with some betrayal or punishment or curse of some kind right?

In an SBS it was said that Mihawk and Crocodile both suffered some kind of a betrayal in their past.

Hakuba is some kind of curse/mental illness depending on how you interpret it.

Zunesha is punished for a crime 800 years ago.

Nefertari Lily who has some affiliation with Imu was the only one who didn't swear fealty to the Empty Throne/Imu(potentially).

The spiral eyes seem to be associated with punishment/betrayal/treason or a negative affliction in some form.

Not a super solid theory with any real conclusions to draw from it, but it's an interesting train of thought to go down.

[lunar violet]

Kizaru gonna betray the wg after all of this , why ? Because in chapter 1090 the name of the chapter is kizaru , and who’s on the cover page? Kuro. A reminder that kuro is someone who betrayed kaya after being with her for three long years! Gaining the trust of her . There is no coincidences with oda, let him cook

[distant slate]

hot take: not don, not boom no donnnn. I believe DOOM!! is the sound effect that express Drums of liberation are resonating. Its the sound effect connected to Will of D/light of shandora its also the Shandia Rhythm.

[distant slate]

Once you understand what happened to Jaya wasn’t normal.

[blissful seal]

oh so you mean Luffy can somehow power the mother flame, that would explain why he would be the key for Laugh Tale

[distant slate]

whales r the clue to laughtale

[primal cargo]

This sfx is "Don!" in Japanese

[blissful seal]

@vale plover now that I think about it, we've seen luffy running like a cartoon and generating fire from that run . also he has red hawk

so that might be the key. Also, I suspect that gear 2 is also another hint. He accelerates his internal system which makes him heat up. I'm sure with gear 5 he will be able to intesnify that process so much that he'd become a human sun

[dark grotto]

I hope I won't read any messages while writing mine, because I'm only at dressrosa rn.
This isn't a theory, its just an interesting "foreshadow" (I think) I found.
Btw, I got spoiled that the world is going to be submerged in the future of one piece (idk if this is right, its just what i heard and I hope its not right lol), and I noticed that in the dressrosa arc (chapter 706) Bellamy says: "If I wanna make it over the HUGE WAVE comin', I need a spot on Doflamingo's ship!".
I don't know if he was talking about a different thing, or maybe if this was a thing you guys already knew.
If you guys want to reply to me, PLEASE don't tell me any spoilers, just tell me if you think its correct or not. Thanks :D

[frozen birch]

this is just figurative speech from Bellamy. They live in a world divided by ocean, there's going to be a lot of nautical and sea-related metaphors

[dark grotto]

oh okok, thank you for helping me understand :D

[barren heron]

Is there a general theory channel? I cant seem to find

[vestal lantern]

I genuinely feel that Vegapunk had told us the secret to being able to use two fruits. I know right know it’s kind of a stretch regarding all the variables that goes on. We know that you don’t necessarily need to kill or actually consume the fruit of the user to use their fruit all you would need is an artificial variant of their DNA.

I think in a sense Blackbeard had done the same kind of experiment similar to Vegapunk’s seraphim through the use of the Yami Yami no Mi. He coated himself in an all-black curtain in order to bring the most out of his ability. He stored both the blood and the fruit extracts into his black hole replacing his ability to have both Yami abilities on both hands to just one. He swapped out his previous ability to replace it with another.

[tawny osprey]

calling the smartest man in the world/ brain fruit eater a "scientist for hire" is crazy

[loud nimbus]

That only highlights how arrogant saturn is. And given he overlooked several of vegapunk’s additions to kuma, the pacifistas and failure to cure the blue scales only highlights that he is not much of a scientist more of a quack…

[tawny osprey]

i think hes talking about the wave of pirates started by roger potentially seeing as bellamy went from not believing into believing in dreams

[tawny osprey]

im not saying u were wrong lmao and i dont think saturn is that smart but it just sounded like u were saying vegapunk wasnt allat

[tawny osprey]

this the best theory ive heard about it and it could be like whitebeards blood is in his left arm or something

[loud nimbus]

No scientist for hire is what saturn called him. I was just citing the irony

[winged parrot]

might be weird but I think kidd will beat shanks, not luffy or BB. He's lost to shanks twice, and got farther the next time, similar to luffy and crocodile
I think not only will kidd return but he'll kill shanks in final war and then fight luffy

[jovial marten]

what if the one piece is some kind of a item only for joyboy to use and that makes possible to kill gorosei and imu and saves the world from flooding but imu knew about it so since he couldnt destroy or submerge it somehow he placed it on last island of new world placed curse that any devil fruit that would come close to laugh tale would get sick and it would prevent from joyboy going onto the island
opinions?

[torn quarry]

Posted this in the manga thread, putting it here too.

People are wondering how, if Fishmen and Mermen live in the ocean, they never across those cities that are now underwater? You guys saw that panel with the SEAKINGS around a submerged city? There must be more than just one, there must be hundreds of ruins down in the depths.

What if the reason that, despite living in the ocean, Fishmen and Mermen rarely/never came across these sites is because…..they‘re at the bottom of the Calm Belt?

[finite lily]

My recent theory about the void century: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1cyyzcf/theory_the_war_against_slavery_in_the_void_century/

[modest cairn]

It is an interesting theory, but according to what Vegapunk says, the continent is under the islands of One Piece. These islands are just mountains of that continent, so cities cannot be just in a straight line. Or perhaps this is a reference to the wall in Saudi Arabia 😱.

On the other hand, before Fisher Tiger and then Arlong, fishmen did not leave their underwater island. This is mainly because, as living beings, they need the light of the Eve tree. At the moment, there is no other Eve tree in the One Piece world.

However, it is strange for such a tree to be underwater. So, we can ask ourselves if that tree was planted before the Void Century.

[sudden heart]

Was the mother flame responsible for the rise of the sea levels?

[sudden heart]

The tree and even fish island was probably set up with joy boy freeing everyone. Fish island was probably a bomb ready to help destroy the redline.

[cosmic torrent]

Ok i am convinced now, the ancient kingdom was full of man made devil fruit trees that everyone could get to try their luck into getting some power. The other kingdoms wanted to get rid of a nation full of superpowered individuals so they got a hold of the ancient weapons and use them to flood the world to get rid of most of the inhabitants of the ancient kingdom.

[plain barn]

You guys think Saturn was a scientist back in the void century ?

[dapper sphinx]

Okay hear me out.

I think Imu is Nefertari Lili.

[cunning tendon]

thats a common theory bro

[dapper sphinx]

And he is a male. I'm not done yet

[cunning tendon]

Okay go on...

Guys maybe Imu is coming Egghead?

[upper gust]

People beginning to paint the Joy boy faction as the bad guys or the threats I just do not believe it. Vegapunk cannot even figure out the technology of the ancient kingdom that Joy boy is from yet Franky can understand the plans to Pluton? The ancient weapons were made by the 20 kingdoms and used to annihilate the ancient kingdom. They took advantage of the fact that they didn't care about what happened to the world afterwards which the ancient kingdom probably did. This has be hinted at by how easily IMU annihilated lulusia kingdom just to test out their new weapon, which also possibly was the event that raised the sea level another 1 meter since they did say it was days ago. Joy boy becomes a pirate in a flooded world to continue fighting the alliance and helps to destroy or hide the weapons from the alliance. The land mass that used to exist where Wano is now may have also been near the ancient civilization and maybe they were unspoken allies. They shut themselves off and remained independent but after seeing the destructive actions of the alliance they forged the poneglyphs which were then distributed around the world. Zunesha still roams near Wano where their old country used to lie.

[carmine flicker]

so from this chapter it seems likely "One Piece" is actually the unified continental landmass. basically the Pangea of this world. When Roger said to go find One Piece he must have intended people to uncover the secrets of the supercontinent, which could only be possible if you were a pirate acting outside the jurisdiction and restrictions of the world gov't

[upper gust]

That is a good thought, but wouldnt that mean they just found it?

[carmine flicker]

in a way yeah. i think people will be able to infer what it is now. but they probably need to reach laugh tale to confirm for sure. there may be more to it. like the reason why the war happened. it looks like vegapunk doesnt know all the details

[void jay]

I can already tell 'Ancient Weapon' mean only as name for all those completely busted weapons that survived to this day, but we still can't tell who built it. It was likely work of the allies of both sides hence why Uranus is in WG hands and Pluton in Joy Boy's allies hands. I think there were many more creations alike but they all got destroyed in great war that was going through that 100 years. We also don't know what original 20 kingdoms thought of the world, but seeing they preserved a little of it confirms that only the crew of Imu was thinking of total annihilation.

[upper gust]

19 of those kingdoms are now the celestial dragons right? None of the kingdoms below the red line are part of the 20 outside of the nefertaris that rejected them. We have met a lot of the former kingdoms royalty, and so far they are super into slavery

[void jay]

Yeah but it isn't clearly stated that they themselves know about Imu's cleansing plan. And if they are so much into slavery they wouldn't be happy to eradicate potential slaves.

[worn spade]

Yeah that ain’t happening

[upper gust]

You are very correct in that there is no panels. I just think the argument for the 20 being the bad guys has actual panels to show their evil doing and atrocities, and there is currently none so far from the ancient kingdom. Anything negative being said is 100% speculation so far. Even the panels alluding to war refuse to paint them as bad or the aggressors. All we know is that they were advanced and had power sources that vega punk could not re-create.

[errant rune]

https://x.com/oghumantripod/status/1793751043068899370?s=46&t=bZDrq_yFeUmwrSndnBORHA

[modest skiff]

Fishmen Betrayed Joyboy and Helped The Celestial Dragons

Normally my theories are like 20 pages but less people reply to them when they are super long, so I am going to start by making this into small pieces to get initial feedback.

1: Before the ancient kingdom, the water level was very high and most if not all non-fishmen lived on the red line. Meanwhile, fishmen had the enormous majority of the planet under their control because all of the remainder of the planet was water.

2: Scarcity of resources and scarcity of land causes a lot of conflict, as evidenced by the fact that the Tontotta tribe were enslaved BEFORE the void century

3: The ancient kingdom finds a way to increase the overall amount of land by drilling holes into the planet to give the water somewhere else to go, which reduced the water level of the planet. This revealed a lot of islands from volcanoes that had not yet managed to reach above the previous water level. This allowed non-fishmen to flee as refugees to these new islands

4: Fishmen were already living in these regions before the water level was lowered. So these "new islands" were in fact existing cities or countries within the fishmen population. This was what ultimately caused the "us vs them" of fishmen vs non-fishmen.

5: All of this new land meant that the previous ruling authority lost a ton of their power. Since the races and tribes that were subjugated, enslaved, or otherwise victimized by the ruling factions could simply leave, they did.

6: The end result of this major change was that fishmen's territory was converted to above-water islands and non-fishmen used violence to take these islands from fishmen. These groups fighting against fishmen were victims of the ruling class before fleeing the red line, so their desperation gave them the motivation they needed to be cruel to fishmen because they were fighting for their livelihood after escaping the red line.

7: This situation created an impossible moral dilemma. Fishmen were victims of refugees fleeing the red line. Victims became oppressors. This was the original event that caused extreme hatred between fishmen and non-fishmen.

8: The previous ruling class society could not function as it was without a huge number of slaves and other forms of inequality, so they tried to track down all of the refugees and bring them back. They preferred the way things were BEFORE the ancient kingdom freed up all this land and gave their slaves somewhere to live. They ended up conquering a lot of these new islands and essentially undoing a lot of the benefit the ancient kingdom tried to create by lowering the sea level to begin with. Only now, fishmen were also victims and this new war of fishmen vs non-fishmen could even be framed as worse than how things were before the ancient kingdom did anything at all.

9: Joyboy tried to free the slaves while also ending the war with fishmen. Ultimately, he was betrayed when the fishmen allied against the previous ruling factions. The fishmen preferred all of the refugees to just go back to being slaves. The previous ruling factions wanted all their slaves back. They managed to increase the sea level quite a bit, but not enough to erase all of the new islands. In the end, the fishmen allying with what eventually became known as the CDs is what tipped the war and led to Joyboy being defeated. The CDs erased all mention of ancient kingdom technology because they wanted to make sure technology was never used to free their slaves and destroy their power structure. That's why we see technology mostly wiped out and history is suppressed.

Another direction this theory could go is that races from other planets collectively decided to lower the sea level of the one piece planet after ruining their own planets. It’s possible the people living on the moon had existing relationships with Lunarians and Fishmen due to proximity. But they never lived on the planet because it was just a ton of water.

[deft prawn]

Zunesha is just a normal Long Ring Long Land elephant that was converted into a giant with the extremely advanced technology they had 900 years ago

Oda was just foreshadowing us this in punk hazard with Caesar Clown trying to make giant kids and the arc of Long Ring Long Land, when vegapunk said in the new chapter that the technology that existed 900 years ago was a lot more advanced that the one now, we can only assume that they managed to accomplish the giantification. (And just maybe but i dont think so, maybe giants didnt exist in the first place and they were all artificially created)

[sweet crest]

I think the world of one piece is set on earth because of how vegapunk mentioned that people were stuck on islands with there cultures and there’s literally Kingdoms based off countries. King Tacos and King Ham Burger being 2 big ones

[drifting cargo]

So imagine Laugh Tale is on the ocean floor so the only way to get there is without a devil fruit but when you get there Joyboy's writings tell you that you now need the Nika fruit to create One Piece

[inland cobalt]

Basically every fictional location is based on somewhere

[distant slate]

vivi x shirahoshi alliancce happening. the sea cats from alabasta are sacred animals to the land, and jinbei also found seacats in the sunken city. Lily mosy likely was an ally of og poseidon and possibly seakings helped during flood. besides uranus the other ancient weapons were used for transport/evacuation of flood. Before pirates ppl werent traversing the sea... joyboy was allied with zunesha, and zou helped set up the borders of wano aka pluton.

[warm oak]

I love this theory, but it doesn't explain why joyboy apologised to the mermaid princess.

[modest skiff]

If Joyboy’s goal was for fishmen and all the other races to live in peace, he absolutely failed. And depending on how involved he was in lowering the sea level to begin with, it may have all been directly his fault

[dim niche]

what if the reason Imu’s head/crown is so long is because they are wearing the crown of all the 20 kingdoms because they’re the ruler of the world (not rly a crazy theory but a thought I had)

[chrome beacon]

do you guys think smoker will unlock Haoshoku Haki in near future?

[merry crypt]

[hardy trench]

maybe, but i feel like koby will be the one with the huge conqueror's boost

i def do see smoker getting a bit powerup though, maybe via awakening

[hot panther]

theory:
joy boy is the first bearer of the will of D "natural Enemy of god" he was the first pirate, first person to oppose the WG.

joy boy was simply a nickname, we dont know his real name

him and luffy are probably related somehow

[pure raven]

Why not ?

[woeful forge]

Imu might be the Umibozu devil fruit user.
first, vegapunk has theorized that devil fruits are manifestations of ideas or legends. we know the other gorosei have yokai/monster based devil fruits and have seemingly all or most of the abilities of those yokai or monster. what if the most powerful devil fruit of them all is the most mysterious and arguably most fearsome yokai, the umibozu? it would possibly be "most powerful" due to the idea that the sea couldve been extremely feared at the time before devil fruits existed (assuming they havent always existed); just like the original folklore surrounding the umibozu in real life: there were many disasters at sea and often in japan they were explained by the wilings of umibozu.
Interesting notes about the Umibozu's powers and physiology:

1. Red eyes and inky black body. almost always described as having piercing red eyes, something that both the florian triangle monster and imu have.
2. Shapeshifting and size manipulation. Umibozu are decribed as being complete masters of shapeshifting and can even become mountainous in size. often said to grow tentacles (like the one it used to attack sabo and cobra)
3. Dominion over the sea. possesses the power to manipulate the sea itself, the Umibozu can conjure colossal waves and control the weather.
4. Drain Vital Energy: In certain legends, it is believed that the Umibozu can drain the life force or vitality from its victims, leaving them weakened. can explain imu's long life without the use of Law's fruit
5. Invisibility. In some accounts, the Umibozu can render itself invisible
6. Due to the description of how it can appear anywhere on the ocean it's possible Imu can teleport.

since the umibozu has complete dominion over the ocean the inflated powers of a DF could allow for the 200 meter sea level rise, the creation of the grand line, and imu could have imposed a "rule" upon the ocean that anyone with a devil fruit would be rendered powerless.

the ocean would have been even more of a mysterious and feared concept since it was a "normal" ocean at one time and we have had thousands of years of oceans disasters in real life. we know that one piece's world mirrors our own in terms of folklore so people from thousands of years ago would have the same beliefs in terms of a yokai's abilities, thus making the druit more powerful.

[red pilot]

i think nika might be joy boy

[finite lily]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1cyyzcf/theory_the_war_against_slavery_in_the_void_century/

[lavish egret]

anyone else notice the guy in mok town wich looked like hawkins?

[vast plume]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[lavish egret]

file:///Users/aminbouhanouch/Desktop/Screen%20Shot%202024-05-24%20at%203.10.58%20PM.png

[stray marsh]

Luffy fights the Gyatosei in elbahf but he meets Saul and blackbeard accidentally gets in the way of the Gyatosei so he holds them up while straw hats go to get the One piece

[hallow pike]

Gyatosie 💀

no hes not joyboy since nika was the name of the imaginary god of slaves and giant who brings them joy and liberation, who also has a rubbery nature of body and was a mythical creature or sum, meanwhile joyboy hasnt been clearly explained but is defo different

[gritty cedar]

Cook

[versed hamlet]

Isn't the first point immediately incorrect? The water level ROSE so it couldn't have been very high -> low -> back to being high, if that's what you're implying.

[cyan cargo]

You have to read the other points, the theory says the water level was already relatively high (in their time it would just be a neutral level), the AK drills holes into the planet for more resources which reduces the water levels exposing parts of the fishmen kingdoms resulting in turmoil. And as revenge the fishmen plotted against the AK with the alliance of CDs using weaponry that sunk land masses back under the ocean and raising the sea level to what it is now.
So not “high -> low -> back more like. Normal -> lower -> extremely high is what I took away at least