manga-theories

[brave yew]

I wonder... I'm not sure how Imu possibly could be so old, if this thing really has been going for 800 years or so, but maybe he's vampire-like and (similar to big mom that can extract life-time from others to her) can by sacrificing women live longer, and so that's why Imu may be choosing among them over and over (for if it had additional purpose besides being a crazy psychological outlet). He may then have red eyes due to "having sucked too much blood" (in some sense) of other people, so that it's started to make up his soul (eyes).

However, we already have a vampire (so that may speak against that, and I'd also not be in favor of the theory): https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Hildon

However, I think there'd be 1 potential problem with the theory of Imu being the cause why devil-fruits all around the world can emerge, namely the (I think in a unique way outstanding) non-locality of his power. Normally, abilities are in their range restricted to at most about whole islands of sizes of regions around the user, but in this case it'd have to be global, permanently, and I cannot recall any comparable power where that's also true... except actually, I think Trafalgar Law, when he must've "pseudo-cut" 1 of the samurai in half and distanced himself far away from him, his ability's effect still lasted. But that'd be still small in scale, but I guess Law possibly then could also have done that to a few more things or people and it'd still been fine, and then that situation could be close enough to a few 124 or so devil fruits across the globe for Imu's case. Maybe Kuma's teleportation ability to far remote places could also be seen as exception in terms of reach, but it's literally about teleportation, so distance is part of the point there. I guess another explanation could come by saying "Imu's 800 years old or so and his power has grown that far by now".

Though if there's 800 year cycles, then if there is a bloodline of Imus, so to say, then that may be about how old they get...

[dark quail]

So, ive neverr been able to shake the idea of the straw hat, how its more or less a crown

how it resembles the ships seen in the heiroglyphs,

also thinking of the aqua laguna and how the planet is seeming to rise its sealevel.

Im inclined to think that the sea rising is something set like clockwork, whether natural phenomena, or like the flowers in the boin archepelago, the planet is an organism that is eating all the organic life it let thrive for 1000 years, sucking it all down into the planet

If imu is controlling the water, and is more of an assymilation fruit than a logia, the term mother flame being confused in early leaks as mother frame has never left my head, its always mnade me think mainframe, I think imu was absorbing lulusia, whether as some archival or just straight matter manipulation that awakened fruits have.

if imu controls the ocean then imu could also be holding the infinite black pits open.

I think the ancient tech didnt use the water as its archival method, it used the moon. The reason the tech WAS used was BECAUSE of the water happening every thousand years or so completely obliterating everyone everywhere not on the red line.

I think our biggest allusion to this is in big moms backstory

the festival before the moon solsitce, they ate Semla, then something like 12 days of nothing but water, and this was when the moon or the sun is closest to the planet, which, if its archiving, distance could be important, maybe the moon denizens would come down personally, utilizing its proximity to their advantage

Im a firm believer that Semla is a standin for Soma, the liquor of the goods (as mentioned by dorry and broggy)

theres something about it all that seems kinda sinister and almost deadly. admittedly if part of the plan is to be reborn after the calamity via the trees like the adam tree seemed to continually spawn whatever kingdom was at its base, its not as much, but

im pretty sure they would commit mass ritual suicide as it was calmer and easier than going through the global flood

knowing that if they follow the process, then they would be archived and born again after the calamity right along their friends

I think whoever is influencing or is imu right now, whoever took power after god valley, realized that a wrench could be thrown into the cogs if someone could control the calamity that they were all sidestepping,

between knocking the gods with the miracle tech out of the sky through attrition of resources, they took control, keeping people alive underwater will make their fruit not respawn, but likely excludes them from being 1 archived or 2 reported dead to the system, telling it another needs to be printed, but i digress,

the strawhat

what if various people started thinking of practical non killing ways to bypass the global flood,

iceberg says hes goign to make water 7 float like tom wanted to. They make the sea trains that float atop the water constantly. Wano figured out how to perch up the mountain, the red line survives and everyone else is just kinda fucked.

I think there is significant connection to the epic of gilgamesh, down to the half man half beast hand created by the gods to be gilgamesh' friend was Enkidu, the beast man, the king of the reed marsh.

Enki Du
Monkey D

anyway, the whole reed marsh thing made my brain itch. on top of Norse God Freyr having a circular ship that had the wind at its back constantly and did not need water to fly sounds like a wicker ufo,

what if they realized a kingdom woven from reeds/straw would float on top of the ocean at all times?

reinforce it with haki and it would be stronger than steel

make a giant strawhat ufo and you could haki/wind power it around no problem

flammability on the other hand is a whole other issue, and would likely completely eradicate all traces of the kingdom

the thought that brought me here tonight though, is the idea that a gear 5 luffy could stretch a strawhat to be big enough to cover an entire hemisphere, give the entire planet a hat, one that could be traversed and walked on no matter the ocean underneath.

the brim would not only lay up against the red line, but the red stripe is literally on the hat

the floating city would be acheived similarily with a bunch of ships tied together, a tortuga of pirate ships that ever float atop the waves. also flamable, and sinkable.

but what could be a bigger threat to a government that owns your land than you just going off and literally weaving your own island. creating your own land to live on.

I had the same idea when we learned that pyrobloin in the sky islands mean it comes from volcanos,

Wano and mt fuji among other things could print sky islands.

sky islands can also completely bypass all the water shenanigans.

sky islands are islands you can print and give a giant middle finger to the wg trying to tax or annex you

but imu has ereased all mention of the global aqua laguna, or that it is going to happen because she wants to use it as some crucible to cull the weak and poor,

she could literally be using it as a way to crash course some trial runs for her galactic clone slave selling program, whoever survives atoip the mountains go in the giant genetic bank so she can shit out armies of them at a time for different celestial entities but again i digress,

In the same way that oden held the scabbards out of the oil and how oden also had the dish shaped head, makes me think that there was a giant that housed a kingdom atop the strawhat he wore. personally protecting it.

again, this is all thumbtacks and yarn in my head, not that im trying to sell you on it or that i believe it,

oh, that reminds me of the potentially most important charctes in the story,

the weather wizards in weatheria recording the weather,

they are birkans, they wear the same clothes the celestial dragons wear, etc etc

they state an implicit importance on tracking the weather

Nami is onehundred percent birkan as well, with the biggest flags being her inherant ability to detect weather and air pressure, to being able to literally command luffy to stand up from being dead.

them wizards know whats up

[brave yew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire

A vampire is a mythical creature that subsists by feeding on the vital essence (generally in the form of blood) of the living. In European folklore, vampires are undead creatures that often visited loved ones and caused mischief or deaths in the neighbourhoods which they inhabited while they were alive. They wore shrouds and were often described as bloated and of ruddy or dark countenance, markedly different from today's gaunt, pale vampire which dates from the early 19th century.
maybe Imu could be a vampire. It doesn't seem that far off, but wouldn't yet have as many clues for it, I think.

[dark quail]

vegapunk and Kumas mom both show the chubby cheekedness of birkans too. or at least the weather wizards.

urouge is birkan, and a mystery
enel is birkan, and one year older than the god valley incident leading me to believe that kuma shot fruits around the world

theres also some dumb fucking wordplay that i cant shake

St. Imu

steam

[brave yew]

and one year older than the god valley incident leading me to believe that kuma shot fruits around the world
ah yeah, I suppose in combination, someone capable of creating devil-fruits and Kuma could together distribute them once, for if otherwise their creation would have to be local, close-by, but that'd not explain the axolotl fruit emerging or others surely.

except all the fishmen of course would survive all the floods

[dark quail]

if the pinnacle of ancient tech was a global weather control unit like vegapunk has been trying to make since the start of his career, that basically means they created an artifical atmosphere.

I think imu is using water vapor to create illusions. like holograms on egghead, who are nebulously real and interactable with the right equipment or composition

everyone who ate a fruit being swapped with a vapor ghost of themselves that still houses their shadow/spirit/soul and lets them pilot the ghost as if they were still alive, but now their physics have changed and the steam ghost now follows a different set of rules

although on thriller bark, they say, the shape of the shadow defines the shape of the body so if you control the shadow you can change the body

maybe theres an inverse to that, gonna have to simmer on that for a while

but if someone with global water powers can create water ghosts and give them the appropriate physics to their actions when they interact with real people and with other water ghosts

then it would make sense that ocean knocks the fuck out of df users,

the reciever jumping into an ocean of radio waves cant descern where it starts or ends or what phsyics should be applied where

If Imu is the ocean, mother nature, (which frankly know that we know emotions from things can be given physical form by people like kuma and bonney, imu could be the supreme hatred,

ceasars pet smiley was made from the concentration of the poison used to obliterate punk hazard, for imu to be the compressed concentration of soot from burned kingdoms could hold some weight, especially if its just the planet being given a voice to fight back with.

It also gives some purpose behind shanks crew not having any devil fruits.

although im still inclined to believe its because he doesnt want to have anything influencing his will, he wants to be all shanks all the time

or it could be that it is infact a place underwater, but theres to many ways around that

impel down having its failsafe be that it can flood the prison is really interesting,

like a last ditch attempt and she floods all of the most dangerous people ses kept on ice and gains their power immediately

Monet was Snow, but not a snow logia

Pica (who is likely an analog for Nika now that we know) is a stone assym fruit

even trebol wasnt a logia,

are there any logias on doffys crew?

[dark quail]

no, like, the fruits were on god valley and kuma just paw pawd as many as he could before they left

[brave yew]

ok

then it would make sense that ocean knocks the fuck out of df users,
that's been explained differently already. evolution doesn't like sinners that cheated evolution to change themselves by eating devil fruits

although im still inclined to believe its because he doesnt want to have anything influencing his will, he wants to be all shanks all the time
it also may be part of the sacrifice theme that's going on with shanks, to not take presents but rather give everything away.

[drowsy cosmos]

Oda likes to parallel Luffy and BB, knowing BB likes history and Zoans have a will of their own. There's a chance the Yami Yami no mi is actually a zoan

[brave yew]

hm yeah at some point I should look into what passion/desire/trait based logic may determine what type the associated power is...

[dark quail]

Its completely possible, likely named after whatever entity is occupying bb body,

if iwere to guess? Davy Jones

We know hes canon or at least in story myth through the Davy Back

also hody jones

i think bb is like cavendish in that he has another shadow or soul in him, but thanks to his weird no sleep winter island bullshit, they are constantly in the 50/50 stage that hakuba and cavendish use towards the end of dressrosa

In the same vein as luffy mirroring bb

im convinced that bb last move will be sucking in every crew member of his to have their fruits

i think luffy will do something similar, in that hes going to eat his teammates but its going to be more like hes housing them inside a giant rubber robot, less digestion, more laboon

i think imu will do something similar when they flood impel down,

and if consuming someone is enough to giv e youtheir power a la mother caramel

luffy might be fighting with the power of a third of the fruits

[brave yew]

if iwere to guess? Davy Jones
Only if Davy Jones is the personification of greed in some manner.

[brave yew]

Here's a detailed analysis for logically deriving Imu's ability:

I suppose one could describe Imu's emotional pain as "something eating him from the inside", to this way get a connection to passion fruits, because his ability is meant to help his desire, and so if it feels like something is eating him inside, the ability is about creating something to eat to satisfy the feeling of emptiness that comes from being eaten on the inside, and regarding all the available candidate foods, the ability likely would choose something or be something that fits to such a person, and because passion fruits aren't only delicasies but also in the description of their naming are fruits "that serve themselves" (rather than eating itself, so maybe as cure for things that eat itself), the ability would be about the creation of passion fruits, but his ability doesn't stop there because that would only help the symptom of feeling empty inside, but wouldn't cure the cause of feeling empty inside, which comes from his desire, and so his ability creates fruits that can also address this desire, turning the passion fruits into devil fruits that are created whenever there is someone with strong enough desire so that the desire hurts them inside and in such a way that the created devil fruit is provided with a specifically to this desire suited means for curing it by with the powers that they carry. And so Imu's ability allows to cure others' internal desire-based pains.

However, the tragic irony in all of this is that while Imu has the ability to cure everyone else's desires if they are uniquely strong enough, he's unable to at least eat (or maybe also create) a devil fruit that he could eat in order to cure his desire without losing his desire, because (i) Imu already has a strongest desire for which the associated ability happens to not cure the cause of the desire based on all other potentially present abilities besides the one to create devil fruits, so that eating a devil fruit that'd give someone the same abilities as the ones he already has would change nothing (besides additionally making them unable to swim or be weak when they touch sea prism stone, I guess) and if he were to eat a devil fruit that'd change the desire that he has, then that'd make him lose his former strongest established desire which was the necessary condition for devil fruits to exist in the first place, and then either he could have a new desire and just all devil fruits out there are gone, or all people's abilities that come from devil fruits would be gone as well, which then means that if he'd eat any other devil fruit, its effect would be undone immediately and he'd (presumably) be back to the personality he had prior to that, changing nothing, and so the only other option he'd have would seem to be to by his own genuine natural (rather than unnatural, by devil fruits caused) means let go of his desire being such outstandingly strong, but he probably just doesn't want to let go or cannot.

And even if he could, then for as long as there simultaneously were to also exist other people that technically fulfill the condition of having sufficiently strong desire for the same kind of thing that Imu desires (but just not more so than Imu) such that they could otherwise instead obtain his abilities, 1 of them would be gaining his powers (which in the process of that power transfer may either preserve all existing devil fruits and possibly also all devil fruit users' abilities, or the devil fruits and maybe also people's special abilities may be undone and new devil fruits may have to come into existence at first again).

But I wonder about how fine-tuned of a control Imu may have over his (genuine passion based) ability, in particular if he can take away any individual devil fruit, undoing the transformation of a fruit into a devil fruit (and if so, at what distances), which he though probably either cannot do in general (maybe due to it being against the generalization of his desire) or he may be unable to do it with precision and with lack of precision could come a risk in accidentally undoing the transformation of a wrong devil fruit located far far away from him. Or he might even be able to take away the devil fruit powers of people that ate a devil fruit (though then also possibly only so if they are close enough to Imu), which would also help his leverage over the marine. And maybe he can determine for which set of desires devil fruits can at all be formed, but he likely cannot have too much control over it (or would for other reasons have to otherwise not choose to use it), since in collaboration with the marine and all the information they can provide to him about pirates and their abilities and what they are doing, or generally any adversaries to Imu's will, he could just remove the powers of adversaries, and the marine would be far more effective and not be struggling as much as it does.

(and for why Imu would have that desire in the first place, there's multiple pieces of evidence for it, namely for Imu being an emo)

[dark quail]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-dead-go-back-go-back-to-sleep-anime-gif-9696593

[brave yew]

Those evidences would be the iroquoise haircut which so-called emos tend to have, are associated with, and in Imu's case (besides the name being similar obviously), for him to be the 1 emo person among all that may be out there to be chosen to be able to develop this unique ability, (just like Zoro is the only one able to develop such sword mastery and strength, or how just Jinbe being able to control water currents) Imu would have to be the "most emotional emo of them all", and I think that is hinted at by his iroquoise hair-cut being extremely tall (basically as if the taller the haircut, the more of an emo one is). And then, emos tend to focus on romantic topics, and for Imu that seems to be centered around Lily, and Imu is also out in a garden full with butterflies that Oda chose to design or draw as scenery to place Imu in, and butterflies also come up in context of romance or beautiful women ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Lovers ). Imu may also not only have so far been drawn so dark/black to keep him unknown but also because emos tend to wear black clothes.

[fallow scaffold]

Well, onto my theory (trying to fit it all into a single message):

While I know most people have, basically, disregarded Carrot from the line up of potential final Straw hats (assuming, of course, that they think we'll be getting anymore), I think there's enough evidence to suggest otherwise - along with other narrative reasons for her to join up later, specifically, around Elbaf

Evidence/hints in the story: her interest in exploring the world and her role as lookout was foreshadowed in WCI, Pedro's Will (and his sacrifice) was emphasized during Wano, and she grew a bond with the straw hats during both arcs).

Now, onto the narrative; while a lot of people think her chance passed at the end of wano, I think Oda might intend for her to join around Elbaf - this isn't just a matter of her expressing an interest in the place during WCI, it's also a matter of when she joins being a foil to Pedro, who wanted to join more or less before Roger's crew set out to Laugh Tale. As such, I put forth the notion that Elbaf will likely be the last big island adventure the Straw Hats visit before they head off to find the One Piece (whether or not they'll have the last Poneglyph at that time, however, is anyone's guess), and that Carrot'll join at around that time.

As to the in universe reason why she hasn't appeared, my theory is that, instead of just accepting the position (or hiding aboard the Sunny), I think that Carrot may have simply told the Minks what Pedro's Will actually was, something I suspect they were simply mistaken about As such, once Carrot corrects them, I think Neko and Inu would reconsider the decision, and instead, she's taken back to Zou to prepare her for the journey ahead - especially if this turns out to be the truth: the phrase 'Dawn of the new World' gives pause to either Neko or Inu, who ponder how Pedro knew that phrase, and reveal something back on Zou- the last page from Oden's journal, which contains that exact phrase.

Hope I got everything.

Boy, that was a lot to type out, and glad I basically got it all out there;

Some minor notes that didn't quite fit in there: There's nothing to indicate that Neko knew that Pedro knew about the 'dawn of the new world', and her being prepared for the journey would also serve as as good foil for her introduction on the sunny: sneaking aboard unbeknownst to everyone vs being prepared and given a send off by the minks. Lastly, the thing about Oden's journal was actually something I incorporated into my theory after seeing a comment about it online, that Oden had entrusted it to Neko or Inu for safe keeping

I know it's probably not perfect, just hope I didn't word anything badly. Personally, I'm rathe doubtful I'll be able to convince that many people of it; just hoping that some will acknowledge that they hadn't considered this, and acknowledge that it's certainly possible.

For the record, nothing against Vivi fans who want her to rejoin the crew; that's totally fine, and I'd be okay with it if it happens, I simply prefer Carrot

[brave yew]

3 more indicators that Kizaru is arrogant ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xIYAYrxtJM ). First, he's rather tall, so that he can look down on other people or they'd have to look up to him (which admittedly especially in one piece wouldn't be that much telling, and he's also not been made taller than the other admirals, it seems, but they're all very tall). But one can read off of the gestures he makes for his attacks, or how he chooses to attack, namely in Sabaody, the way he chooses to execute Zoro, I think, was with his foot (as if he were treading on an insect), kind of like how Sanji would attack, but Sanji has different reasons in the story for why that's so in his case (because as cook or chef, he doesn't want to get his hands dirty, and his hands are only there to serve), but in Kizaru's case I think it's because of thinking of those he attacks that way as lowly. And in other attacks he just points his finger for light-ray attacks, as if he'd just have pick and choose people's fates or only has to press a button and apply minimal force to kill people. And in other poses during attacks, he has like some godly appearance, too.

[misty rain]

Does anyone think the original Vander Decken will play a larger role in the future?

[long goblet]

maybe cuz when he was being introduced he was introduced as a big shot

[fallow scaffold]

might be, might be; it's certainely odd that a ship as famous as the flying dutchman would only be referrenced in a single arc and then forgotten about. Who knows, though; it's Oda

[drowsy cosmos]

If Kaido wanted to die so bad why didn't he eat 2 devil fruits

[brave yew]

good question, seems like a plot hole or mistake; I guess he wanted an amazing battle or opponent; he had fun in fighting, seems like someone that likes a fight. Or similarly, just going into water or eating sea prism stones or so. Maybe he wanted it to be quick, or it probably wasn't genuine, but if it was a genuine desire, and if on top of that it'd been his main desire, then I'm not quite sure yet how to derive his strength and abilities from that...

[brave yew]

Or maybe it's just in there to express that he's "bored to death (kind of literally)" because he cannot find a worthy opponent. But I think what he truly desired was world-domination, which could be well represented by a dragon. After all, for Momonosuke there probably must be a similar desire since he's also been given a dragon transformation devil fruit, and likely so by his own strong desire (which though might be the speedrun record for how fast someone would've developed strong enough of a desire to transform a fruit nearby into a devil fruit, but I suppose that was enabled by his very early childhood trauma when Kaido assaulted the castle and they barely were evacuated), but I think in his case, while it may also relate to the world, he may just want to rule the world, but not by force, oppression.

So actually, from a raw, serious business survival of the fittest perspective, in the whole competition, about the worst thing that could happen at a fight encounter that involves someone without a devil fruit (nor special abilities) would be that the winning party doesn't kill off the losing party and just leaves them and then a long amount of time passes during which the ones that lost develop strong feelings about that in some relation, which can then make them by their desires trigger devil fruits associated to their passions emerge to aid them in revenge or so. Because that's kind of the mistake Kaido made, maybe out of hubris, thinking Momonosuke never could become a threat.

Actually, given how the world of One Piece works, I think (besides theoretical physicists or generally intelligent folks), the people that could become especially powerful (since "knowledge is power") by means of seeing through the mechanism of the devil fruits, understanding how they work (especially if they had many enough encounters with their users) would be psychologists, profilers (of which possibly there may be some among the CP9 actually), or basically people with knowledge of human nature, because those should have it easier to figure out the mechanism, and I think this could even make more sense of why Luffy may have been chosen to be a Tarzan-like character (but I'm not sure if Oda had this aspect in mind when he chose Luffy to be Tarzan), because understanding human nature well should also be possible to learn or practice by understanding animals' behavior, which Tarzan was (in the fictional story) an expert in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarzan

His strength, speed, stamina, agility, reflexes, and swimming skills are extraordinary; he has wrestled not just full-grown apes, but also gorillas, lions, rhinos, crocodiles, pythons, leopards, sharks, tigers, giant seahorses, and even dinosaurs (when he visited Pellucidar). Tarzan is a skilled tracker, and uses his exceptional hearing and keen sense of smell to follow prey or avoid predators.
When Tarzan first encounters D'Arnot, he tells him (in writing): "I speak only the language of my tribe—the great apes who were Kerchak's; and a little of the languages of Tantor, the elephant, and Numa, the lion, and of the other folks of the jungle I understand."
He can communicate with many species of jungle animals

So this may be Luffy's secret to success in One Piece.

[pure raven]

I'm wondering if we might get the major Blackbeard Pirates vs Straw Hats conflict at Elbaf. It could happen sooner than we think.

My guess is that the order of encounters for Straw Hats (after Egghead) will be: Blackbeard Pirates main conflict on Elbaf (fighting over last Lode Ponegliff), Shanks (and maybe Cross Guild) on Laugh Tale, then head for final battle with Imu (Marines interfere on the way)

Reasons why I think the Blackbeard conflict will be resolved very soon in the next arc:

1. Even though Blackbeard appeared ages ago, he wasn't introduced until Jaya and wasn't even namedropped until Drum Island. He didn't enter the plot until far after the start of the story, so it's possible he isn't central to the very endgame of the plot. Meanwhile, the Marines (aka World Government) have had a consistent presence since the very beginning, which ties to Imu being the sole focus of the end, not Blackbeard.

Further evidence: Law and Kidd weren't added as characters until nearly the middle of the story. And recently they were cut from basically any chances of reaching the endgame (without Luffy helping them). So we could see cuts to other characters introduced in the midgame, like Blackbeard.

2. Blackbeard has gotten a drastic increase in screentime very recently. He was silent for ages... but recently made Moriya mad, fought a war at Amazon Lily, fought a war against Law, captured Koby who had a huge conflict at his island, Blackbeard's subordinates killed Garp, and now Blackbeard has a ship conveniently stationed outside of Egghead. Blackbeard is ramping up to about to do something big in the plot. Meanwhile Shanks is sipping tea, taking basically a casual stroll still. This implies we'll get Blackbeard before Shanks.

[brave yew]

so it's possible he isn't central to the very endgame of the plot.
yeah he doesn't have to be.

it'd be a bit sad though, because he seems to be among the extremely few that understand how devil fruits work, and there'd be a lot of intriguing trickery that could be done... but I think there'd be enough ideas and devil fruit logic that one could work with to make another one piece entirely.

[pure raven]

Yeah that's a good point. Limiting Straw Hats vs Blackbeard to a single island /single battlefront simplifies it a lot, and reduces the flanking he could pull in a war drawn across multiple islands

[brave yew]

yeah that, too. And that also seems to fit him more, to just be a vulture ripping off of others achievements, trying to be a surprise of an already on-going confrontation.

Actually that makes me wonder... if devil fruits spawn as soon as their user died (assuming someone else has strong enough fitting desire), then Blackbeard may have already been carrying around Whitebeard's fruit as soon as he died while still standing there, before putting the curtain over Whitebeard.

[pure raven]

I do feel the plot is building up to Blackbeard being the main conflict of Elbaf. (Unless there's more than 3 arcs remaining).

Elbaf currently doesn't have a clear major conflict; Shanks is already leaving. And Cross Guild, while good fights for Zoro and Sanji, has no one who can match Luffy. (No, sadly not even Buggy D. Clown). And we're currently having a Navy/World Gov conflict, so it's unlikely for them to immediately return for the next arc without breathing time and prep.

Also, Laugh Tale is probably reserved for the Lore dump, so while we will likely get some Lore in Elbaf, the big one is gonna be Laugh Tale.

That leaves Blackbeard as the perfect ingredient to make Elbaf click. Him appearing and fighting a war against Luffy for the last Ponegliff would seal the conflict perfectly in a challenging way, without too much reliance on Lore dump.

Plus, I feel that takes Zoro's opponents in a natural progression. Shiryu, while impressive, doesn't feel Mihawk level. So we could see Zoro fight Shiryu and grow his Haki, then fight Mihawk and then the final war

[brave yew]

just in case you may be interested, not sure if you may have seen it yet, but this is a more general theory I developed which seems to allow explaining a whole lot (and since then, I've made a lot more progress and will write it down in a more orderly manner later, but it's also in the backlog of this channel, too):
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceSpoilers/comments/19f5b5y/theory_of_everything_for_how_to_derive_how_the/

[pure raven]

Ooh nice! Thanks for sharing!

[brave yew]

np, you're welcome 🙂

(close to the last part in the backlog of this channel also has my most recent stuff about the emo Imu)

Also, Laugh Tale is probably reserved for the Lore dump, so while we will likely get some Lore in Elbaf, the big one is gonna be Laugh Tale.
yeah sounds quite plausible. It probably is meant to be exhilarating and enlightening for the audience, too.

That leaves Blackbeard as the perfect ingredient to make Elbaf click. Him appearing and fighting a war against Luffy for the last Ponegliff would seal the conflict perfectly in a challenging way, without too much reliance on Lore dump.
I mean based on 1 of the intro songs, blackbeard surely seems like a direct competitor to the strawhats. However, that also makes him seem like the final opponent, hmm. I think I'm reconsidering my outlook actually, because Blackbeard may after all be the final opponent, because I think Imu's issue is of a whole different, emotional kind to be resolved otherwise, not necessarily in battle 🤔

[pure raven]

Also, the more I think about it, Zoro vs Mihawk in particular has a high chance of happening on or very close to Laugh Tale.

When Zoro in the beginning told Luffy that he wanted to become the World's Greatest Swordsman, Luffy said something like "The King of the Pirates would need exactly that on his crew!"

So, if Luffy does become the Pirate King at Laugh Tale (and before final Imu war), that could imply that Zoro is declared the World's Greatest Swordsman prior to final war, and thus fights Mihawk around Laugh Tale.

Plus, the issue Cross Guild has, is they don't have anyone to occupy Luffy seriously.

Laugh Tale would be the perfect place for Cross Guild and Shanks to appear. Luffy could go ahead with or without Shanks to go to the final treasure, while meanwhile Cross Guild attacks, and Zoro fights Mihawk. Laugh Tale is the perfect reason to pull Luffy away from the others to let them fight Cross Guild.

Plus, it gives Buggy a chance to be roped in with Luffy and Shanks heading to the final treasure.

[brave yew]

I'd say that from a "becoming the pirate king" perspective, given who blackbeard historically was, a battle against him being the last step for Luffy toward becoming the pirate king would make sense, and if Imu were in a physical sense a great opponent with an army (despite telling the marine what to do, but only for the things Imu cares about...) and had been planned to be the final opponent, then there wouldn't have been the need for blackbeard either in general (though it'd still make sense to include such character), or if included, there'd not been as much of a need to highlight blackbeard specifically (like in 1 of the intro songs) if after like 4/5 or so of one piece, blackbeard would already be gone and it'd still continue, even if luffy had already reached his goal kind of, namely to become the king of the pirates (even though that's more a means for his actual goal).

[pure raven]

Yeah definitely. Blackbeard being the final real challenge for Luffy before reaching Laugh Tale seems really fitting

[brave yew]

mhm. And I guess another reason for why I don't see Imu as final opponent is that for Imu to be at the top of the marine, that should be more for technical reasons (if Imu's gone, I think all devil fruits are gone and those that ate it may lose their abilities, and so the marine hinges on Imu's wishes, rather than Imu being impossible to be usurped even by all the admirals of the marine together etc., if the marine needed to, but the 5 elders kneel down to Imu, are subordinate, so it not being a dominance for physical power reasons there).

[pure raven]

Another thing too; Marineford would not have happened in Oda's original very short version of the story. There just wasn't enough time for it, given the story also needed to include endgame stuff. So therefore, Luffy wouldn't have had a multi-year long reason to hate Blackbeard. Blackbeard could be a Yonko and be a hurdle to overcome, but there wouldn't have been time for Blackbeard to have the same buildup in Oda's original vision for One Piece.

That's why I forsee Blackbeard ultimately being an opponent for Luffy to overcome on Elbaf, not the final boss of the entire journey.

Blackbeard's buildup is almost entirely reliant on events that happened only because Oda got unlimited writing time.

[brave yew]

I see

[pure raven]

Yeah Imu's hard to predict. We know almost nothing about his personal powers, besides an incredibly long lifespan

And that he probably has an Ancient Weapon under his control

[brave yew]

I think I have figured that out quite far, w8

[pure raven]

Imagine if Imu turns out to be weak 😂

[brave yew]

I guess jump up to that referenced message, and read below (if interested). Don't think it'd be good to repost it all.

[brave yew]

I think so actually, and that is what just made me wonder... because surely there must be some protection in place, either by another physical form, representation or extension of Imu's specific power, or by others, especially those that'd be interested in keeping up the world order ruled by the world government or the marine basically, and so the 5 elders should be interested in protecting Imu, and because I've heard that apparently not even the admirals know of Imu, despite them being so strong, they couldn't be the ones making sure Imu's safe, though maybe there's additional characters...

[pure raven]

Yeah that's a good point! I wonder how much info the Holy Knights have, it's unclear what their upper members know and don't

(I need to go to bed, but it was fun talking! Thanks for discussing! ^o^ )

[brave yew]

I suppose the 1st thing that'd happen at a surprise attack or confrontation with Blackbeard's crew would be that Blackbeard's sniper would get the 1st hit in on some crew member 🤔. Man.... he may even go for Ussop first, because he's the strawhat's sniper for long-range attacks, but that might be viewed as waste for the surprise moment... but if Blackbeard's crew members' passions are related to different kinds of weapons and forms of fighting, then that sniper may also want to become the world's greatest sniper and may see Ussop to be in the way for exactly that, which could make him prioritize Ussop. I can kind of see it already: Luffy's crew sees the last island, everyone stares at it, pays attention to it, and suddenly Ussop gets shot or smth like that, and the final battle starts. The next thing happening would be Blackbeard laughing from afar. Yeah I think given how Blackbeard's crew kind of mirror that of strawhat but in a rotten way, the matching of opponents probably will stick to who Blackbeard's members are the doubles of, which should mean Luffy vs Blackbeard, that sniper vs Ussop, then the crazy murderous looking swordsman from impel down vs Zoro, and the Michael Jackson guy (given the moonwalk and generally Michael Jackson's dancing skills) vs Sanji, and for the others I don't know Blackbeard's crew members so well. There's a large one among them who might go against Chopper's giant mode though.

[brave yew]

However, for such a fight of both full crews to happen all at once, if the condition is that beating blackbeard as last opponent would make Luffy the king of the pirates, then given that Zoro wants to become the greatest swordsman, together with Mihawk's existence, great swordsmanship and neither being part of Blackbeard's crew, nor fitting in there with them having a swordsman already, I think that this might imply that Blackbeard's swordsman might kill Mihawk Dulacre as to demonstrate that he'd be now the last swordsman to beat for Zoro, which I think would also fit better, because really, I mean Mihawk alike a mentor trained Zoro somewhat after Sabaody (or Zoro at least asked for advice), and they were kind of close, and so that'd feel more awkward for Zoro and the viewers, whereas if Zoro were fighting that murderous guy from impel down, he could go all out and it'd feel right, especially because then he could also in a way avenge Mihawk.

[brave yew]

I wonder though... for Blackbeard to attack someone else with his crew should in general involve his sniper taking the 1st shot, including Trafalgar Law's crew's case, and he says it's their prey, and surely that sniper at least once in his life-time will have to have a sniper moment, or otherwise why's the character even there, and those moments are easiest to have in the beginning, "as opener". And what this would tell me or make me think is that 1. there'll be at least 1 more fight between blackbeard and others (implying he or at least that sniper will survive this encoutner with Trafalgar, which some here may already know how it ends), and 2. Oda may have foregone what in the world of one piece their strategy would be, just so to not give away this kind of strategy to the viewers, so that Oda can still use it later when people would feel stronger about it, would be more shocked, compared to if 1 of Trafalgar's crew gets shot down. However, I think Oda found a sneaky way for not having to make things go illogical in the world of one piece, namely by having placed that haze that covered blackbeard's ship in this particular encounter probably long enough for them to be able to get close and the sniepr may have been unable to attack from afar (and maybe blackbeard would also have reason to feel more confident about it to not have to use as cowardly of tactics), but there may not be a haze next time.

[brave yew]

That swordsman from impel down part of blackbeard's crew totally looks like some SS nazi officer, or has those vibes, and given what that may mean on his personality, his 1st target may be Jinbe (as expression of racism) if it ever comes to a conflict between the crews.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/gpc5t5/are_they_related_somehow/
And actually, given the similarity in look / clothing, together with the fact that Zoro ended up fighting the other one (also a swordsman), this may be another reason for Zoro fighting him in the end. I wonder if Oda maybe gave him a cigar as a form of conscious or unconscious "coping with reality", where the line of thought could've been: "that guy (at least in my one piece world) had to be smoking something to end up with such mindset". Looks like a train conductor with that cap, too, which does not speak in favor of him for what it probably means, but it makes sense he was on the lowest floor of the impel down prison...

[brave yew]

Also, regarding that guy on the right that Zoro beat, wasn't that also in some way a racial superiority guy (with wings) saying smth along the lines of "a human could never beat me" when things really heated up in the fight with Zoro? He was very over-sized and attacked Zoro kind of like an airplane really, rushing close by, casting massive amounts of fire or even lava towards Zoro, which may be a WW2 reference. It certainly was a fighter jet/plane reference as he (well, not quite, because of the short phases of vulnerability) constantly had a flame burning on his back, almost like the exhaust of a jet. And even when he stretches his head mask way back (which almost made me think he also had the gum-gum fruit, since it seemed so similar to Luffy's attacks) so that it'd snap way forward in an instant across a vast distance, it may be far-fetched, but in air plane fight context, it made me think of like a fusillade of gun fire to pierce Zoro with. And even the fact that his sword turned into a chainsaw could been a rotor-blade reference to a fighter plane.

[brave yew]

that guy's hat looks like part of a pyjama, maybe he's a sleepwalker or a sleep related character.

Queen must also be in that camp actually, with the bio-weapon gas attacks and having added a tank-like dinosaur body to his snake body. The 2 were both all about technology with which to become powerful, and so that likely links them to Vegapunk (of all people).

[hardy trench]

[brave yew]

I'm sure more may be known about that in the manga...

[fallow scaffold]

So, not sure if this' been talked about before, but any idea what caused Dorry and Broggy to finally stop their 'battle of honor'?

[brave yew]

Also, given Vegapunk's reference to the star Vega, and the 2 angels having stars in their eyes when alongside the marine they intend to transport Boa Hancock to a safe place but end up (almost) fighting Blackbeard, that could likely mean Vegapunk was involved in some kind of eugenics program or rather creating a superior species (of angels or people able to fly with wings).

[dark quail]

one of them must have 'won' won
or shanks asked them to come help

but he did think they were dead, or at least some of the giantrs were dead in that first elbaph chapter

good question, i bet it will be luffys first question after the conflict,

[brave yew]

maybe even Shanks' name is a sacrifice reference or standing for Shanks having given smth to others, given how similar it sounds to "Thanks".

Shanks must really be experienced. By his behavior I guess he'd be in the last stage of grief, by acceptance of what happens to him; maybe he's low on hope about things changing.

[brave yew]

So either the strawhats would fulfill their dreams (pirate king, best swordsman, finding the all blue) at different times or simultaneously. If it were different times then the members could sign off and go and leave the rest of them weaker, and I mean they became friends, so I doubt it. If anything, then the all blue as goal having been found or achieved may come at a different time, if I'd have to pick 1 (and maybe it also comes with delay, after beating blackbeard at raftel, by doing smth at raftel creating the all blue). And so for Zoro having any confirmation of having become the greatest swordsman, he'd have to have gone to every island with competitors, so that also indicates that only at the last island raftel, he could know for sure he reached that. So that all speaks for a blackbeard battle just before that.

And actually, for Raftel to be so hard to find, that very fact in itself may be closely tied to the same mechanism that from there may be possible to trigger to get the all blue, like a water or island level issue going on there.

I think I'm onto smth more with this here regarding the all blue; it even references a sun god in there about the "navel of the world":

Where is the center of the world?
City of Cusco
According to legend, the sun god Viracocha sent the first Inca Manco Cápac with his sister Mama Ocllo to earth around 1200 AD. They founded the city of Cusco, whose name means nothing less than the navel of the world.12 Dec 2023

An omphalos is a religious stone artefact. In Ancient Greek, the word ὀμφᾰλός (omphalós) means "navel". Among the Ancient Greeks, it was a widespread belief that Delphi was the center of the world. According to the myths regarding the founding of the Delphic Oracle, Zeus, in his attempt to locate the center of the Earth, launched two eagles from the two ends of the world, and the eagles, starting simultaneously and flying at equal speed, crossed their paths above the area of Delphi, and so was the place where Zeus placed the stone.[1]
Holy shit and there is even a cross-intersection reference there, where Zeus sent out 2 eagles meant to meet in a point, which is quite similar to the 4 red poneglyphs meant to form a cross to find the final island 😮. Who wants to bet Oda took inspiration from this? At the place (in greek mythology) is even the oracle meant to be, so someone able to answer deep questions, which should also fit well. And there's a specific stone that represents the "navel of the world". Now I'd almost bet that in One Piece, the removal of this stone changes the water level or some major sea-quake by which the red line crumbles, forming the all blue.

Most accounts locate the Delphi omphalos in the adyton (sacred part of the temple) near the Pythia (oracle). The stone sculpture itself, which may be a copy, has a carving of a knotted net covering its surface and a hollow center, widening towards the base. The omphalos represents the stone which Rhea wrapped in swaddling clothes, pretending it was Zeus, in order to deceive Cronus. (Cronus was the father who swallowed his children so as to prevent them from usurping him as he had deposed his own father, Uranus.)

Omphalos stones were believed to allow direct communication with the gods. Holland (1933) suggested that the stone was hollow to allow intoxicating vapours breathed by the Oracle to channel through it. Erwin Rohde wrote that the Python at Delphi was an earth spirit, who was conquered by Apollo and buried under the Omphalos.

And of what we've seen of Raftel, I think there was some kind of rainbow haze there, too, which could represent those vapours.

The Foundation Stone at the peak of the Temple Mount is considered in traditional Jewish sources to be the place from which the creation of the world began, with several further major biblical events connected to it. Jewish tradition holds that God revealed himself to His people through the Ark of the Covenant in the Temple in Jerusalem, which rested on the Foundation Stone marking the centre of the world.[2]

And there's a reference to the beginning of the (or a new) world there, too. I think when Roger said "he left it all there", he probably knew it wasn't smth he could take with him, at least not for the geological special circumstances that may be present at the site. And I suppose as major religious archeological site, it'd also constitute a scientific goal for Nico Robin. And to satisfy Nami, there can just be a lot of wealth and gold around the island. For Ussop to get there may prove to himself and others his bravery to have gone on such adventure despite being so weak. Brook's whale should be waiting there, so that at the same time, Brook can find Laboon (maybe near a lagoon), and maybe even other whales (and maybe they could be the ones triggering a sea-quake for the all blue). I'm definitely onto smth with this; the whale's name is a clue, especially since a lagoon could also be considered a navel of the world by being a separated round body of water.

[brave yew]

And actually, for Raftel to be at a lagoon would make sense of how it's so hard to find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon

A lagoon is a shallow body of water separated from a larger body of water by a narrow landform, such as reefs, barrier islands, barrier peninsulas, or isthmuses. Lagoons are commonly divided into coastal lagoons (or barrier lagoons) and atoll lagoons. They have also been identified as occurring on mixed-sand and gravel coastlines. There is an overlap between bodies of water classified as coastal lagoons and bodies of water classified as estuaries. Lagoons are common coastal features around many parts of the world.

So basically GG, I figured out what the One Piece at Raftel is about.

And together, Shanks/Thanks, Laboon/Lagoon, Imu/Emo also form a pattern (and there may be many more, like with Sengoku/Zen Goku), solidifying that being the correct interpretation for these names as clues.

For Chopper I could at least imagine that the holy grail may be there, which would be especially valuable to him as doctor, if it allows him to cure other people. Just for Franky idk man what our robo-guy would have there, and similarly for Jinbe, but an all blue may also help connecting the fish-folk, rather than being separated.

The Reverse Mountain! Could it be the navel of the world that has been turned upside down and is meant to be turned around again to have its peak fit into a hole? Could it also be the reason for why the water flows upward on this mountain? Because the water still follows the normal path it'd take along this mountain for if the mountain were correctly in place, rather than upside down? And could the whale Laboon have been trying to flip the reverse mountain over (and got all the scars this way) because Laboon knows that it'd trigger a sea-quake or so and connect the seas for the all blue?! If Raftel is meant to be the navel of the world, there's a chance that Oda meant this in a more literal (albeit geological) manner, because a navel can either stick out of the belly or be be an indentation, and so currently, if the reverse mountain is the navel of the world, it's sticking out, but maybe it should be reversed!

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Reverse_Mountain_Arc

Actully, I don't quite see how the reverse mountain would be flipped over, BUT I think what will instead happen is that Luffy will with a giant fist punch it back in! And maybe on the bottom side (the normal top side) of the reverse mountain, there may be an indentation that'd be the lagoon for laboon. And I mean the reverse mountain fits as center of the world candidate, too, it's not any random spot but anyone entering or exiting has to pass it, it's alike "rome being the center of the world", or "every road leading to rome".

I swear this just gotta be it. And if it isn't it, then Oda's idea cannot be as good. This sneaky Oda... had the strawhats even pass the place that's their goal already.... it's also the case that the reverse mountain is quite the bottleneck for the water flows; if it'd be removed, the waters would be connected. And I mean shape-wise it looks like a normal mountain, but the surface has nothing growing on it and it looks much more like it's supposed to be the rocks in the underground instead. If that weren't the case, then it'd less fit to this theory, so that probably is also an intentional choice meant as clue. And it could well explain why Raftel hasn't been found, because it's on the bottom side of this mountain, possibly upside down. I guess if Luffy isn't meant to just punch in the mountain, then the next best intended way to deal with it that I could see would be if Trafalgar Law creates a giant room and turns the mountain around that way, and that's probably what's meant to happen, but would require Trafalgar to survive until the end, and join Luffy or come with his crew for this task. I wonder though... someone originally must have turned that mountain around.

https://www.quora.com/If-Raftel-was-the-last-island-isnt-it-just-behind-the-Reverse-Mountain
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/86deb7/theory_raftel_is_an_undersea_island_deep_beneath/
Oh man, they were so close 6 years ago already...

Trafalgar Law! If anyone could have turned around the mountain initially, not only in a destructive manner, but even such that everything stays intact (just like when he cuts through stuff or re-arranges it, it still continues functioning as if it were connected), then it'd been him! AND there is more clues for him knowing exactly about Raftel, because when Luffy and Trafalgar and Eustass depart from Wa no Kuni, Trafalgar gives off a suspicious look when they talk about the one piece or the last poneglyph.... not sure, but there definitely was smth, and in the last anime episode, at its end, when they introduce the start of the back-storgy of Trafalgar Law, the voice claims that Trafalgar is the king of the pirates (which had me a bit dumbfounded because I didn't remember hearing any of that before), but if that's true, then it must been him! But why?

Maybe clues can be found here for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trafalgar (it might be the final battle in one piece). And I mean at Punk Hazard, we've seen Law cut even entire mountains in half, too, so he proved he could do such a thing. I guess with this I've made up for not having been able time-wise to help solving the Crack the Clue 3 OSRS event. Law's ship is also the only one that's a submarine, isn't it? That cannot be a coincidence; it's probably to allow him access to Raftel even when it's flipped over. He's the prime subject.

So, going by Trafalgar's 2nd name, Law, regarding the historical battle and the factions involved, he surely must represent "the or a lawful faction" among them, probably the British Royal Navy, if I had to guess. FINAL BATTURU!

Actually, at least as back-up theory, I could see an alternative person for who could've turned around that mountain and placed it there: Namely the blind admiral Issho who can make asteroids fall from the sky and change the direction of gravity.

interesting reward for Ussop. Also, I have the feeling that even the name Raftel (or Laugh Tale, Laftel), since Oda had to come up with some name for it, it might fit to the state of the island, namely being a word in reverse and might be about Let Fall or smth like that(?)

Do you have any ideas for Franky, too? 👀

[viscid agate]

no but i have proof for my theory, i deleted cuz i coudlnt add images, how do i make a post with images here

[brave yew]

oh, I think you need the embed role for that, given by someone :/

[brave yew]

it sounds great as additional puzzle piece to the whole thing! It'd really fit well.

[viscid agate]

ill just make a redit post and link it here

[brave yew]

It could also make sense of the whole Sogeking stuff (with his sun mask) and "God Ussop".

Btw if no plausible reward at Raftel for Carrot or others can be identified, then I think no one else will join.

[fair zealot]

hey there, I was rereading some bits of the manga when I noticed this in enies lobby
zanbai taunts oimo into hitting kashii, when he jumps out of the way of oimo's attack he does so by pullign a perfectly silouetted nika pose.
uh I guess I can't post images here... it's in chapter 378, in the panel where oimo hits kashii straight in the face you can see little zambai and his bazooka jumping away in what's now the iconic nika pose. it's just a little thing, it's not a theory but I'm quite persuaded in thinking that there are some "nika-like" individuals out there, like zanbai who charges without fear to save his friend. his favourite food is also barbecue
oars jr seems kinda like one of this "nika-like" person, barges into marineford in his strawhats, all he does is shouting ace and running towards his friend in order to save him

[rancid tulip]

@brave yew ah someone finally digs into the real history of the world. I think reverse mountain is based on hyperborea. The idea of ancient greece what the north pole ought to be. It was the land of the people of the sun. There are 4 rivers forming together like a cross and in the middle there is a black rock, believed to be magnetic and the source of why the compass points north. So perhaps this black rock is also in raftel and the reason on how the magnetic fields works in one piece. that by going to each island you reset and point to the next and at the end is Raftel. But there are a lot more connections to real world history that makes up the foundation to the world building of one piece. shihihihi

[distant slate]

bro catch up with the manga plz lol

[white canopy]

An admiral die on egghead.

[viscid agate]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1agcwpc/theory_the_one_piece_or_atleast_part_of_it_is/

@brave yew

[sand cypress]

I think bonney having control of pacifista is prelude to bonney, vegapunks, and pacifistas joining rev army and kuma becoming symbol of freedom and revolution instead of a tyrant. It works well thematically and rev army needs a major powerboost to really go to war against wg. Also works for vegapunk cuz if rev army wins, he can make the internet.

[solid nest]

Bonney will join the Revolutionary Army following Egghead, she has achieved her goal as a pirate. I think that upon hearing Bonney can control the Pacifista, the RA will seek her out to fight against the WG and continue her father’s will

[pearl tusk]

This happening + morgans inevitably exposing imu exists will cause huge rift in marines

[sand cypress]

Would ppl even believe morgans if he exposed imu? Most may think its a conspiracy theory.

[fallow scaffold]

So, minor theory here: what if it turns out that Dorry ang Broggy's duel hasn't actually ended, they've just decided to put it on hold to deal with a 'far graver manner that honor demands they deal with - fixing the mess that their absence has caused!', due to someone finally just filling them in on what's happened in the world since the warrior giant pirates disbanded?

[pearl tusk]

Only if what happens at egghead “opens the door”. Morgans isnt going to just throw it out there without backup ya know

3 way situation of strawhats exposing saturn/vegapunk/kuma, garp or rebel marines breaking off (saving koby, sword involvement), and morgans holding evidence of sabo and imu interaction

[sand cypress]

He better have some pictures, i need to know if he/she looks goofy or not

[pearl tusk]

Can assume He does have pictures right? Wapol was there.

[brave yew]

thanks, I'll check it out. If there is such Jesus fruit meant for Ussop, then I think that could fit to Blackbeard's sniper wounding Ussop deadly as surprise, then their battle starting, and maybe having to finish it fast enough so Ussop can eat that fruit to save his life and become immortal jesus or so. However, I already have an alternative speculation, namely that Trafalgar law may have already eaten it; he's the "Surgeon of Death", and kind of can (at least close to) bring people back to life with his ability. So he may have taken it and hidden Raftel afterward.

[brave yew]

yeah, Trafalgar Law could have also hidden the 4th poneglyph on Raftel before flipping the island.

[brave yew]

Oh, yeah maybe the poneglyphs are what the compasses point toward. It'd make sense in regard to the imagery where all the poneglyphs are connected by a string.

[distant slate]

or its her having that power similar to that of ancient weapon

[brave yew]

Jolly-Biscotti409·4 hr. ago
Is this Lobotomy Piece

That guy may already know smth or think similarly to me, namely about Trafalgar Law, the surgeon being the key to the One Piece (though I assumed the post were much older, independent, but I guess it's fresh).

[brave yew]

someone also probably should give me the theorist role by now, I'd think. Am also not sure why I cannot message in the spoiler channels.

[distant slate]

BC the chapter is already out. not on viz but its out so its closed. next ch spoilers will re open

[brave yew]

ah ok

[distant slate]

also your jesus connections are valid, but you should know oda doesnt do 1:1 he takes things from religion and remixes them and add his own sauce to them.

[brave yew]

yeah I know.

[distant slate]

if you elimnate THOSE who study the secrets of the past/world, lost people, and ancient gods, then A NIKA WONT EXIST bc it wont be desired/hope a possibilty of the human evolution....

kuma was spreading the word of the true "messiah"

Aka hes an apostle

[rancid tulip]

going back to dr hiriluk on someone only truly dies when they arent remembered

[distant slate]

But it all came from a spark aka this thing called faith (hope/desire for a better future) cause of KUMA.

the gorosei have killed all myth zoans.... by erasing history, cleasning....if no one remembers..aka it cant be hoped for. cant spawn a devil fruit poweer in a future that is not perceived.

[rancid tulip]

what about the slow slow fruit of foxy, that states he shoots slow particles something scientist havent discoverd yet

[distant slate]

how would you eradicate an ancient god if fruits keep spawning?? its by preventing it from being perceived in the future aka the saturn/vegapunk theory/discovery on devil fruits were

[brave yew]

I see, makes sense

[distant slate]

hes interesting aint he! on paper his awkened fruit would technically be lengthening the duration or slowing and effect. like aging per say 👀

[rancid tulip]

or time 👀

[distant slate]

and based of this connection. is why i think urogue is going to paralell kuma. bc he abandoned a fake god. hes in search for the true "messia'

[rancid tulip]

hust made me think, did he get toki's fruit?

[brave yew]

It makes sense though since devil fruits and powers in general also independent of devil fruits entirely come from desires.

[distant slate]

when you realize devil fruits are outta FAITH aka hopes/desire

[brave yew]

And while many kinds of desires will naturally emerge for types of reasons of dramatic events that one cannot really prevent from existing anymore, when it comes to culturally and psychologically induced desires, those would rely on that still being remembered.

[distant slate]

if you can see where im coming from. im going to explain something else now. tell me what you think

[brave yew]

And so I suppose that must be why memories of the content of the void century are attempts to be prevented. There must be 1 or more specific desires related to them that rely on the cultures or mythologies (even if it's about delusions) coming from there.

[brave yew]

yeah that's what I figured out.

[distant slate]

@brave yew "All of those powers represent the many branches of the future of humanity." Some of people's wishes and dreams came true and took shape through akuma no mi" sounds like perceived future to me..

• I think haki at its highest form is ≠ to devil fruits, and shanks points to that evidence with his ridiculous future sight haki, ofc hes fruitless, his ability isnt that of transforming, but its like peekers advantage. a way to get hindsight of a POSSIBLE future.

• shanks future sight haki is basically another form of perceived future

• peak haki grants the user basically a "peekers advantage to the future" essentially enabling the user to alter somewhat to a "good one" which is what we saw against captain kidd

[brave yew]

I mean I understand the mechanism. Zoro and Jinbe essentially have devil fruit powers without devil fruits; they don't have the water handicap.

I explained the theory and several exemplary applications of how it makes sense for many characters in here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceSpoilers/comments/19f5b5y/theory_of_everything_for_how_to_derive_how_the/

[distant slate]

OH BRO were on same wave length, its the reason mother sea curses those who consume a devil fruit. the forbidden apple

this why saturn created a god-like army

aka the holy knights .. newborns with the power of df w/o consuming it

Garling is the exeption

[brave yew]

hm ok

[distant slate]

lemme see if i can elaborate

[rancid tulip]

"Anything man can imagine is a possibility in reality --willy karen, physicist" from chapter 218

[distant slate]

when saturn was talking about bonneys experiment thats why hes says the fruit isnt useful anymore. saturn w/ experiments discovered that df abilities transform based on "future perceived" now look at shanks no df but has insane "FUTURE" sight wifi haki.... AKA HES looking into the future.. aka a "perceived future"

• Saturn stating (a power that can transform into any future, but narrows) is directly linked to vegapunk saying that a df is a possibility as long as its desired/hope Distorted future is that, but with transformative abilities
• whatever Saturn infused into Bonney is the core ingredient in making DF powers come to life
• hes wasnt into the age age fruit, hes into the distorted future ability

[brave yew]

yeah a theoretical physicist in the world could find out about that

but profilers like CP9 or psychologists etc., too (since the mechanism connects with desires). Don't know if there's any of the latter in other contexts though.

[distant slate]

which is what leads me to think they holy knights are hybrids who have df powers w/o consuming it bc they were able to manifest their df through the transformative ability of "them" perceiving the future. if they are trained to be lab rats lets say and are constantly fighting/training... they have a future of that of a "fighter/ warrior, slave to cds, etc but as result they manifest df abilities

[brave yew]

vegapunk saying that a df is a possibility as long as its desired/hope Distorted future is that, but with transformative abilities
Then vegapunk is lying (by omission) or mistaken though, because that is only true while Imu is alive.

Imu is the cause why devil fruits (a product of his specific emo ability) exist.

[distant slate]

so i think saturn and vegapunk are arriving at the same conclusion through different methods

[brave yew]

you can read on the explanation for that in my long text beneath this referenced message.

[distant slate]

Vegapunk has the holistic approach, saturn had the methodology behind it

[rancid tulip]

bonney does have devil fruit powers cause she turned back into a little girl when she was found in the sea at the start of egghead island arc. So this idea of having df powers without consuming a fruit somehow negates the sea stuff isnt true

[brave yew]

could be. I haven't actually seen or read up to those parts

[distant slate]

and as far as imu goes, this how i see it. He played the bad guy so long for so many years that devil lives in him. the same way nika lives in luffy.

[brave yew]

which is what leads me to think they holy knights are hybrids who have df powers w/o consuming it bc they were able to manifest their df through the transformative ability of "them" perceiving the future.
No I mean that's just the generalized mechanism behind all of the special abilities: Someone needs to have a strong enough desire for smth, and if they are the 1 outstanding unique person most desiring it, they can start developing the associated abilities that are meant to enable them to reach that.

However, the devil fruits come from the special abilities that Imu developed (by his broken heart and emptiness that fills him) to not only spawn passion fruits i.e. devil fruits for him but in general for anyone and with the ability to address the cause of their emotional distress.

[distant slate]

ahh i see so you have imu at the center of it all interesting

[brave yew]

Imu is the most emo guy, is why he has the tallest Iroquise haircut, and he's a butterfly-lover, is about romance over Lily.

[distant slate]

im thinking differently, imu is a person but the host is the devil

[brave yew]

Only for the devil fruits part of it. And it should also be the technical reason for why the marine relies on him and fulfills his every wish, because if he dies, the devil fruits should be gone and all that ate them to get their abilities (rather than having naturally on their own, genuinely developed them) will lose them, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_fruit_(fruit)

The Portuguese maracujá and Spanish maracuyá are both derived from the Tupi mara kuya "fruit that serves itself" or "food in a cuia".

Passion fruits are round or oval, and range from a width of 1.5 to 3 inches (3.81 to 7.62 centimeters).[1] They can be yellow, red, purple, and green great colours.[1]
(many variants exist, probably the reason/inspiration for the many devil fruit kinds of looks)

[gritty heath]

I have a theory after the latest chapter.

We know that Who's who was transporting the Nika Devil fruit from somewhere to the World Government. But was intercepted by Shanks.

We know that Shanks is friendly enough with the Giants to be the defender of the Island, and also is helped by Dory and Broggy themselves.

We also know that Imu has a Giant Straw Hat in his possession.

My theory is that, what if the Giants have always held the Nika fruit? Or it was in their control somehow? Who's who was part of a mission to transport the fruit AFTER it was already nicked/stolen by another Marine detachment. Shanks, being friendly with the Giants, came to know of the information and intercepted Who's who. And then proceeded to give the fruit to Luffy out of happenstance.

[distant slate]

think about saturn powers.. could still be ancient df, but notice how it dont operate like modern devil fruits

devil fruits dont have a dark nature to them like his form.. Saturn powers doesnt seem like it spawned outta hope/desire but outta nightmares instead

[rancid tulip]

or saturn might be an actual devil

[gritty heath]

Adding to this that the Giants have come to Vegapunks island for some purpose... And they Know somehow that Luffy is the Sun god.

Only way they can know it is if they have some prior information, or also that Kidd is alive and his description of Luffy helped them identify it

[distant slate]

remmber how long legs and long arms have been in conflict for thousand of years. and the long arm tribe was wishing/hopping/ and desiring for the devil and brook spawned

[brave yew]

Well there is 2 ways to get such powers, either genuinely derived or by eating such fruit, but then the users seem to be forced to develop an associated desire/passion. Imu's role basically is that of someone that makes it far easier for people to get special abilities, and he also allows for the wrong people to get them, since anyone can eat the fruits, whereas one cannot steal someone else's genuine/true desire for smth.

[brave yew]

interesting

[distant slate]

now lemme even get deeper

apoo is from long arm tribe and he was musician

BROOK also another musician whos connected to long arm tribe because of the ritual

[brave yew]

must be the means by which he should be aided to reach what he desires, yeah. I haven't looked into his case so far for what that then should be.

[brave yew]

I see, yeah that's suspicious, or an interesting connection.

[distant slate]

if this cult existed for thousands of years. wouldnt that spawn those devilfrutis powers the gorosei have?

[brave yew]

oh and since it's probably not quite clear what I meant with "Imu's a butterfly-lover", I didn't mean he loves butterflies, but being emotional, romantic, as emo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Lovers

[distant slate]

this is why i think imu a this point is just a body/physical form but the devil took over. AND why is because if you have been evil for so long you become the devil.

[brave yew]

probably mhm

[distant slate]

we'll have a better idea/concept as the gorosei are fleshed out

the cult literally was hoping/desirng for revenge

[brave yew]

I don't think it's necessarily about being evil. He developed his abilities from a desire like any other person, and those desires don't have to be evil, but to follow through on 1 desire and make use of the special abilities meant to address them without them ever leading to the person being cured of the desire, or satisfying it, then that may lead to being fully absorbed by the desire and possibly turning into a devil of sorts.

[brave yew]

okay, good to know

[distant slate]

i say evil bc i think about lily, and seems like he did her wrong

[distant slate]

your last point is where im at with the devil/imu

if the devil is in him , does that mean hes immune to the sea?

[brave yew]

yeah most likely, in some way. She must be rejecting him, I think.

[distant slate]

IF SO. BB MAY JUST KILL HIM

for a someone to rely heavily on devil fruits, seems like he may just become the devil afterall

[brave yew]

I don't think so. It's "evolution" (maybe personified) thinking of devil fruit users as sinners when they eat them... but that'd be special, because that should be part of the by genuine strong desire derived abilities having this specific restriction, and I wonder where the logic for that is coming from (if it's not just for plot reasons or smth arbitrary).

[distant slate]

YEAH Bb fruits powers arent really evil. its the gorosei that have the negative connotation really

DO YOU think the op will be something everyone is like okay wow this is the op. or do you think the op will mean something different to each readers

because at the end of the day it needs to be digestible lol

im sure i contradicted myself as we discussed the topic of devil fruits, saturn imu, along the way so apologies. it can get tricky since were speculating but with valid connections

[brave yew]

Like... I'm doubting "evolution having any opinion on it" is even the real reason for why the fruits meant to help people with their deep emotional problems stop working in water. Maybe the reason for that could be part of the specific details of how Imu lost Lily, or what their conflict or so may have been over, resulting for some reason in Imu's extended desire's will (expressed by his devil fruit creation ability) not being extended to the sea. And 1 conceivable reason for that would be racism against fish-folk as generalization of a kind of hate towards them all IF Lily may have preferred a fish-man over Imu, or smth like that.

[distant slate]

Mhmm

im also on board with the gorosei already having other races extinct whos to say there was 9 or whateverr

[brave yew]

As far as I can tell, regarding other characters (indicated by their characteristics, features, gestures, behavior):
Shanks is about self-sacrifice, that kind of mentality
lightman's the biggest narcissist, his ego is so high up where the sun is
Issho's lightman's opposite, selfless, his ego so far down it's at the center of earth represented by its gravitational force
the volcanic admiral should be desiring for people to fear him (like hell)
Whitebeard should be representing a conservative literal "old guard" (and ruled the world and kept up the old order, which Roger wanted to change up, and that's why they had to meet because Whitebeard's a conservative, doesn't like changes)
and more....

[distant slate]

since we were on the topic of christianity earlier. have you seen the idea that zoro is slowly converting

[brave yew]

hmm maybe at thriller bark with Brook(?)

haven't made out a pattern there but I have only started analyzing one piece in depth since like a week ago or so.

[distant slate]

First Zoro rejected God, and said that he would definitely not pray to God, but as the story progressed we can see how Zoro has gradually come to understand how powerless he is ( when faced with mihawk-.. its more than being the strongest swordsman bc its symbolic. zoro has been drawing demonic aura/force to amplify his swords, but if he figuratively converted then he'd abandon the king of hell wouldnt he draw force from a good/ or possibly different Ashura.. since the true messiah was revealed to him (AKA LUFFY THROUGH KUMA, AND INTERESTINGLY MIHAWK THE MEN WHO MADE HIM FEEL POWERLESS, is a follower of go

btw, this is idea that ive seen float around i ffind it fun bc its about the the strongest swordsmen still but in a symbolic way

[brave yew]

the OP? You mean my reddit post theory? It should make sense in general.

[brave yew]

no worries, we've been making progress after all.

[distant slate]

btw, the zoro idea is still a contradiction bc ashura is from hinduism but i love the idea of abandoning king of hell to reborn as a different ashura. since theyre actually different ashura and not all deemed as "evil"

and coincidently mihawk is the most christian looking mfer in the story lol. straight from europe

[brave yew]

right

[distant slate]

and its like bro why devote to king of hell, when you already following the true messiah (sun god)

[brave yew]

yeah, ironic

[distant slate]

haha thats oda

I mean GODa

another fun idea is that the gorosei are super powerful and were already seeing that its take a collective effort to stand a chance with them. it would be fun [HEAD canon] venus becomes an obtsactle for both cross guild and SH at elbaf hence the only compatible fighters against diamond mihawk and zoro

what a coincidence last yr when it was revealed that egghead is 500 yrs in the future. meanwhile the story takes place in 1522... you add 500 you get 2022 which was our date date in real time.

[brave yew]

ah interesting, so 800 years before that should be 722.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/722

Europe
Summer – Battle of Covadonga: Visigothic nobleman Pelagius (Don Pelayo) defeats the Umayyad forces under Munuza, provincial governor of Asturias, at Picos de Europa (near Covadonga). This marks the beginning of the Reconquista, the Christian reconquest of the Iberian Peninsula. He founds the Kingdom of Asturias, and establishes a military base at Cangas de Onís (northwest of Spain)[1] (or 718).

[flat estuary]

What if Shanks loses his trust with the straw hats and ends up forming an alliance with Blackbeard to plan luffys death and the whole time we found out that the show was about shanks assassination on the straw hats and the red hair snitch goes to destroy the grand line and new world? (This was said by my friend and he’s on the start of wano)

[distant slate]

lol shanks is not the enemY

[glacial hound]

Ussop will never meet his dad

[brave yew]

sounds like he'll be immortal

[pure raven]

Imu is Luffy

[glacial hound]

I just realized that in Buggy's flashback he found the map for the little arm thing luffy had in impel down

Clown has been looking for it for years

[muted valley]

Dorry and Broggy there to steal Strawhat, Since its about time to worship the sun god and they want to bring a surprise to all the folks at elbaf

[devout gulch]

some of you should really just start writing fanfiction instead of doing........ this.

[slim igloo]

when "Shanks" went to the meeting with the gorosei to warn them about a certain pirate it wasn't actually Shanks, you could tell because his eye scar wasn't there. It's clearly his cloned twin brother "Thanks". the pirate Thanks is warning the gorosei about is Luffy. Why? Because Thanks is evil

[lament oyster]

u cant be real

[brave yew]

this sounds like a joke in response to my Shanks <-> Thanks word similarity observation, but it'd be intriguing if there were such character, too.

[viscid agate]

Yeah probably instead of Jesus being the son of Yahweh I think Jesus might be the son of Nika or something

[brave yew]

And I guess in general it makes sense for the world setting to be focusing on pirates and people going to the sea, since among those should be the most ambitious, risk-taking ones for their desires, and so that's where one should find a lot of devil fruits or special abilities. And I guess many kinds of ambitions, desires one can have would relate to the whole world or would be about maximization of something, and so the ones stronger desiring smth would also go out there to travel around the world to reach their ambitious goals.

I wonder what the most ambitious character will be or is that never develops special abilities.

Just a hunch in regard to the choice for them to have this kind of "orthogonal to, or antithetical to Iroquoise - not only in orientation relative to the head but also shape - hairstyle" of Mozu and Kiwi ( https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Mozu_and_Kiwi ). And if that were to actually reflect their personalities, then they should be the opposite of emos in a sense.

Mozu and Kiwi are classic sidekicks; they stay in the background and chime in every once in a while. They have a tendency to mimic Franky's actions and reactions. They also seem to have a strange habit of doing odd poses when in the background, and generally act like Franky's back up singers, even if he is not singing. They also have a sense of sassiness.
They often move in perfect sync, like mirror images of each other. Whether they do this on purpose or if it just happens naturally is unknown.

Not sure if that'd be clues of them being the opposite of that, though. But there's also 2 of them, so they may never feel just for themselves, or they may never feel alone or having lost a "soul-mate" or so (while they're together).

Okay I just had a hypothetical but kind of hilarious idea for how someone as only 1 individual person (but with schizophrenia) possibly could at different times have different devil-fruit-like powers (and you probably guessed it already), namely by having different desires that each would have to be the strongest of its kind.

And actually(!), there might be such schizophrenic character, namely Cavendish, except that only "1 of the 2" may have a strong enough passion developed:
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Cavendish

He also suffers from a split personality, changing into a bloodthirsty lunatic known as Hakuba when his dominant personality sleeps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal

Durendal, also spelled Durandal, is the sword of Roland, a legendary paladin and partially historical officer of Charlemagne in French epic literature. It is also said to have belonged to young Charlemagne at one point, and, passing through Saracen hands, came to be owned by Roland.
Many years later, the owner of Durendal prior to Roland was a Saracen named Aumon, son of king Agolant,[d] according to another 12th-century chanson de geste, the Song of Aspremont.

And actually, there could be another exception (of sorts) to the rule, namely siamese twins, of which both could develop different passions and yet have the same body. But that makes me wonder who of the 2 irl can control what body part, or if for some parts it may be a mix(?) For the world of One Piece, I guess if only 1 of them ate a devil-fruit and they'd be in water, only about half of the body would be weak(?)

The 2 oddest cases to try to explain with my theory would be "the sowrd that wanted to be an elephant" and "the pistol that wanted to be a dog". But even though these 2 may be kind of jokes, gimmicks, I think I at least vaguely could see a way to fit the 1st case into the framework, because in japanese culture, I think, special swords sometimes have their own will or choose their wielder, and so maybe that'd be the kind of direction that this strange possibility would be coming from; not sure if it could be an analogous case for the pistol though.

What do swords represent in Japanese culture?
The Japanese sword (nihontô) has traditions dating back thousands of years. A Samurai's sword represented his soul. The sword was the symbol of the Samurai class and a Samurai carried two of them, the long katana and the short wakisazhi, passed down from one generation to the next.

https://folklore-japaneseswords.jimdofree.com/the-significance/

Swords not only held the soul of the samurai and godly spirits it is said to hold the spirit of its maker. In the case Muramasa from the home page, his swords were "bloodthirsty" and had evil spirits.

[brave yew]

maybe Garp, Dragon's father, specifically was chosen to be the most loyal dog because he'd have the most reasons to not be loyal since his son is in the revolutionary army (or created it), and his grandson's a pirate...

But there's another aspect to notice, namely at least since Imu's ability was in effect (assuming for the moment that that is needed for devil fruits), for everyone that developed special abilities without a devil fruit, like Zoro and Jinbe, and maybe few others, at some point in their lives, there should have been devil fruits spawning nearby them that'd aided them in fulfilling their desires with more power but with the swimming handicap, and so that could mean a few things:

1. They may have never come to see or notice that a devil fruit spawned nearby (and someone else could nearby have taken it)
2. They may have noticed them but ignored them, sold them, destroyed them, who knows.
3. Since this kind of situation should happen in general, as long as other people nearby would eventually notice the devil fruit, chances are that they may eat it, and so probabilistically speaking there should be many cases of someone having the strongest desire for smth but then some random other idiot happened to get a devil-fruit-based boost and develop that passion, and actually now an interesting question would arise, namely for who would take priority in terms of who gets to have special powers. And I think it should be the devil-fruit user (because otherwise, at least some devil-fruits should somehow "not work" once eaten, and that "should've been in the news at some point") but that can be quite aggravating for the ones with genuine passions, but not only that, it could also be a major risk, because as long as their devil-fruits are still out there, as soon as someone eats it, they may instantly lose their special abilities.
4. As soon as someone knowing about this mechanism would meet the strawhats (or be a member of them already anyway) and notice someone has such abilities and doesn't get weak in water, they may try to go for the strategy in (3.) and look for where that devil fruit may be if they have an idea at what point the person's passion was strong enough.

So in a sense, one could even view Imu's ability as a kind of automatic (and quite possibly even in of it unaware) form of blackmailing of other passionate people to have to deal with this decision problem. And I think in general, even if the closest fruit to someone with most desire for smth turns into a devil fruit, this should really put fish-folk at a disadvantage if there's barely any fruits growing in the sea, so that the closest one is who knows where, so in effect, it may be robbing them a lot of special abilities they'd otherwise have had.

[brave yew]

2 more clues fitting into my pattern theories: https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Zeff

1. Sanji's Chef is named Zeff (so a similar name to what they are again)
2. He has probably the tallest chef hat and may hence be the best chef, which would make his character design similar to Imu (inb4 it is him, but not really).

[sudden heart]

Just realized the reason Oda insisted that every chapter and episode end with DON is because of the beat of the drum or Luffy's heart to signify drums of liberty.

[brave yew]

Also, I think there may be another (psychological) idea behind having named people similar to their passions (at least sometimes), namely the real phenomenon where people with names that sound similar to smth tend to make that their passion or work in that field; people like to go with those kinds of silly things for fun, and so that could also speak as clue for someone with a name similar to a passion also being the one with strongest passion of that kind developed. Or in other words, even irl, the names that are given to people aren't entirely independent of the personalities that they'll develop.

[obsidian ore]

I have a theory that when shanks said he was gonna claim the one piece he meant he is gonna get ready to wait for nika/luffy on laughtale or make sure nothing gets in Luffy's way

[brave yew]

Interpretation for the yellow submarine Trafalgar lives in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Submarine_(song)

The song received several social and political interpretations. It was adopted as an anti-authority statement by the counterculture during Vietnam War demonstrations and was also appropriated in strike action and other forms of protest. Some listeners viewed the song as a code for drugs, particularly the barbiturate Nembutal which was sold in yellow capsules, or as a symbol for escapism.
The lyrics offer an anti-materialist message typical of the Beatles' songs on Revolver and of psychedelic culture. Reising and LeBlanc view the song's lyrics as a celebration of "the simple pleasures of brotherhood, exotic adventure, and an appreciation of nature".[27]
So he may be against the normal established marine, I think, and goes his own way, and would then be alike some of the admirals that abandoned the maine, since the marine would be the authority in general(?) The song at least would be old enough, for the chronology.

It'd also fit in the sense that Trafalgar left the treasure of Raftel in place, because he's not after materialistic goods, but likes some exotic adventure, and some brotherhood he could have with Luffy's crew and Eustass' in those adventures. Mind you that this would already be at least the 2nd song for which there's indication that it was in some way incorporated into one piece, so maybe an even larger pattern of used songs could be established here, too.

In the town where I was born
Lived a man who sailed to sea
And he told us of his life
In the land of submarines
So we sailed on to the sun
'Til we found a sea of green
And we lived beneath the waves
In our yellow submarine
We all live in a yellow submarine Yellow submarine, yellow submarine (x2)
And our friends are all aboard
Many more of them live next door
And the band begins to play
We all live in a yellow submarine Yellow submarine, yellow submarine (x2)
Full steam ahead, Mister Boatswain, full steam ahead
Full steam ahead it is, Sergeant
(Cut the cable, drop the cable)
Aye-aye, sir, aye-aye
Captain, captain
As we live a life of ease (a life of ease)
Every one of us (every one of us)
Has all we need (has all we need)
Sky of blue (sky of blue)
And sea of green (sea of green)
In our yellow (in our yellow)
Submarine (submarine, aha)
We all live in a yellow submarine Yellow submarine, yellow submarine (x4)

I'm definitely onto smth.

Aye-aye captain, he says, doesn't he, and the others say the other part of the lyrics, namely "Aye-aye, sir": https://youtu.be/bs7t2HLjusw?t=1

And while they aren't sailing to the sun, there's still the sun-god reference for Raftel.

And I think there might also be a "full steam ahead" reference somewhere in the Kaido arc, maybe when they find Luffy drowning and rush toward him.

https://youtu.be/m2uTFF_3MaA?t=91
GG Trafalgar's submarine DEFINITELY is a reference of this. Look how (at the timestamp) they all grow white fur all over the place. Bepo must be a reference to that, and Trafalgar's wholly hat possibly, too. And when they encounter Blackbeard, there's another reference to Bepo losing hair, which may be another subtle hint.

https://youtu.be/m2uTFF_3MaA?t=113
Interestingly enough, they also encounter and fight a variety of large dinosaurs there, just like Trafalgar Law does when they fight against Kaido's army.
https://youtu.be/ZOhx5jto8iw?t=9
And their submarine has a flapper in its back-end, too (which... is at least not a given for submarines)

[cedar crown]

I like that

[brave yew]

I'm slowly but surely reconstructing One Piece's plot kinda 😆

So actually, if there's more song references, then their lyrics may provide plot progression info. So I think for the plot, finding more song references may be the best way to go.

Oda's such a silly guy, creating a mashup of all this stuff, it's hilarious 😄

[brave yew]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/6x7jxv/is_laws_ship_based_on_a_beatles_song/
I see, so the yellow submarine song reference seems to be known already, but not sure to what extent.

[fair zealot]

hey, I just found out why Flevance had to go through everything that happened there.
we know that the WG knew about the toxicity of the lead, they didn't say shit and let them mine it until the whole population got sick
at that point, the WG could have stopped the rumors about the sickness being contagious, but again, they just did what was worse for Flevance.
In the end the neighboring countries invaded Flevance, resulting in the death of every single citizen except for Law.

This really looks like the WG wanted that place destroyed in a way that couldn't be directly tied back to them.
Why would they want to do that though?
Well, because there was a sun god religion in Flevance
remember the nun that's trying to save the children?
when she tries to persuade Law in trusting her she says "there's always a merciful hand of salvation waiting to help"
when law finds the bodies of her and the children, there's a panel that focuses on the religious symbol she was wearing as a necklace: a cross with a circle in the middle.

I'd say that the WG, whenever they catch a whiff of a sun god religion popping up somewhere and gaining some traction, they find a way to utterly destroy that whole place in a way that can't be directly tied back to them

the WG also used the sun god religion to their advantage in linlin's flashback, we can see how mother Carmel was instructed to act in a nika-ish way in front of the giants, which resulted in John Giant joining the navy

edit: Flevance stuff is in chapter 762 if you want to check for this stuff

[brave yew]

"Who is Crocus?" if you asked, he's Roger's former crewmate.
I see, so he's watching out for Raftel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MukJ1t8gJ5I seems like someone else also theorized it but lacked confidence due to not seeing enough clues pointing to it, I guess.

[obsidian ore]

more info on this theory regarding shanks preparing the path to laughtale for luffy/nika

https://twitter.com/spiritofjoyboy/status/1738375315662217367

[chilly pagoda]

Shiki will return with his floating islands. Enel will return with his robot army

[rigid violet]

The one piece is prob ussops nose

[hexed root]

Prolly jinbei's d-

[stone gull]

The all blue

[thin trout]

johnny is imu

[lone zealot]

man with burn scar is crocus

[brave yew]

the guy watching over reverse raftel mountain?

[lone zealot]

yup

[brave yew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocus his name must be relating to that flower in some way I guess.

(besides the obvious pink look in clothes and flower-petal-like backhair)

[lone zealot]

and he has flower like hair, really cool detail by oda

[brave yew]

oh burn scar.... SUNBURN?

bec he just hangs out there reading newspaper and sunbathing like people on the coast?

[lone zealot]

nah he lives inside of laboon, there’s no sun in there

the sky was painted i believe

[brave yew]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Crocus he got a scar on his left arm though, too.

[brave yew]

ah right, I forgot. I thought he made it out of there hm

[lone zealot]

these types of scars are pretty common, i’d imagine the burn scar has a deeper meaning than just a typical scar

[brave yew]

yes I'd agree

[lone zealot]

sun god nika, burn scar, a scar from the sun god?

[brave yew]

it doesn't look suspicious enough

[lone zealot]

exactly

[brave yew]

yeah I think it could relate to that. Maybe the 1st time around that Roger went to Raftel, they had a battle and Crocus took a scar from that battle, and that may also be why he then couldn't travel around anymore. Did he say anything why he's not sailing around? Any disability?

[lone zealot]

i’ll have to dig in deeper about the bb pirates’ dialogue

[lone zealot]

i’m going to check the timeline later and see when he got that scar, going to bed for now, have a good night

[brave yew]

but it makes sense that he'd have a flower theme going. Flowers like to be shined on by the sun, so they'd want to be close.

Crocus seems like he was Roger's doctor hmm

But it also seems he did hunt whales and could even have caused Laboon's fore-head wounds... (before he started living inside laboon, almost like an endo-parasite...)

I wonder if the island he lives on inside laboon even is counted as island; it'd be another raftel island candidate if not as much were to speak for reverse mountain.

[lament oyster]

pretty sure laboon got allat bc of himself not crocus

[brave yew]

okay, though surely both their existence must come from another reference, and while the 1st thing I thought of was Moby Dick (which doesn't seem to fit so well), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby_Dick_(whale) , I think I now know exactly what it's about, namely another religious reference (and we're talking about a sun god place anyway):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah

Jonah was saved from drowning when he was swallowed by a “great fish.” He lived for three days inside the creature, after which the fish “vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.” Thankful that his life had been spared, Jonah took up his prophetic mission.

Will read more about that later. Hopefully there's some clues that allow to better tie it to the context in one piece.

Wait, could it be that Jonah, in the context of the history of christianity lied to jesus (though I think that was Judas)? Because if the strawhats were to have talked to Crocus about the one piece, and in particular where to find it and he'd told them he doesn't know, then if that were to be a lie, then this could be the parallel to draw to that story in the religion.

Jonah is the central character in the Book of Jonah, in which God commands him to go to the city of Nineveh to prophesy against it "for their great wickedness is come up before me,"[9] but Jonah instead attempts to flee from "the presence of the Lord" by going to Jaffa (sometimes transliterated as Joppa or Joppe). He sets sail for Tarshish.[10] A huge storm arises and the sailors, realizing that it is no ordinary storm, cast lots and discover that Jonah is to blame.[11] Jonah admits this and says that if he is thrown overboard, the storm will cease.[12] The sailors refuse to do this and continue rowing, but all their efforts fail, and they eventually throw Jonah overboard.[13] As a result, the storm calms and the sailors offer sacrifices to God.[14]

After being cast from the ship, Jonah is swallowed by a large fish, within the belly of which he remains for three days and three nights.[15] While in the great fish, Jonah prays to God in his affliction and commits to giving thanks and to paying what he has vowed.[16] God commands the fish to vomit Jonah out.[17]

Maybe that's the kind of thing that happened to Crocus. From the few images I could find by googling of Crocus, he seems to have had some strong different opinion or a little fight with Roger, but not sure about what or if it'd be any relevant. Probably wouldn't be 3 days though until Laboon spits Crocus out... instead, in One Piece it may happen when Brook comes back and Laboon sees Brook and completely flips out and happens to spit out Crocus in the process lol

(after the whale spit Jonah out)

God again commands Jonah to travel to Nineveh and prophesy to its inhabitants.[18] This time he travels there and enters the city, crying, "In forty days Nineveh shall be overthrown."[19] After Jonah has walked across Nineveh, the people begin to believe his word and proclaim a fast.[20] The king of Nineveh puts on sackcloth and sits in ashes, making a proclamation which decrees fasting, the wearing of sackcloth, prayer, and repentance.[21] God sees their repentant hearts and spares the city at that time.[22] The entire city is humbled and broken, with the people (and even the animals)[23][24] wearing sackcloth and ashes.[25]

God causes a plant (in Hebrew a kikayon) to grow over Jonah's shelter to give him some shade from the sun.[28] Later, God causes a worm to bite the plant's root and it withers.[29] Jonah, exposed to the full force of the sun, becomes faint and pleads for God to kill him.[30]
But God said to Jonah: "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?" And he said: "I do. I am angry enough to die."
But the LORD said: "You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight, and died overnight.
But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?"

So maybe when the whale spits the Crocus plant guy called Crocus out, his flower around the neck may start growing? Or maybe he has some passion for flowers and devil-fruit-like abilities because of that, and if he was Roger's doctor, then he may have been all about herbs with which to cure diseases, and may be able to change the barren surface of Reverse Mountain into a sea of flowers. He may be able to teach Chopper a lot about medicine, which maybe could be part of Chopper's reward for finding Raftel.

You know, Crocus probably knows and may be just waiting for Brook to come back or that crew of musicians, where by living inside laboon, he'd have an automatic "alarm" by which he'd know that (bec of laboon becoming excited) they'd finally made it back. All that's missing is the stop-watch that Crocus would be looking at to see when someone arrives to possibly find Raftel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocus

The crocus has been known throughout recorded history, mainly as the source of saffron. Saffron is obtained from the dried stigma of Crocus sativus, an autumn-blooming species. It is valued as a spice and dyestuff, and is one of the most expensive spices in the world.

The carotenoids found in the styles of Crocus species, particularly C. sativus have been shown to inhibit cancer cell proliferation, and have led to interest in potential pharmaceutical applications.[15]
Herbs doctor for Roger's cancer or so.

Maybe cancer due to sun exposure is exactly why he lives inside laboon, and so that it's not too uncanny living in there, they painted the inside of laboon over.

Maybe the whale laboon itself is the treasure. Given the giant sea kings referred to as weapon Poseidon iirc, it might be that laboon could command them or have some authority over them and allow to fulfill the wish of who laboon would be a close friend to, like Brook, to then maybe break open the Reverse Mountain to connect the seas.

If Reverse Mountain is Raftel and the strawhats end up having a fight with Blackbeard at close approach of Reverse Mountain, then during the fight, laboon could see Brook and see that he and his friends are in danger and try to help them and hence reach out or call the sea kings using a whalesong ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_vocalization ) to come and wreck blackbeard's crew over.

It also seems a little odd though that there is not 1 but 2 light-houses on Raftel's same side. I wonder if any light-house is on its back-side even, and if not, then maybe 1 of the 2 light-houses may belong there (at the end of the grand line, rather than the beginning). I suppose by mis-use, the light-houses could help Crocus' flower to grow faster...

But given the christian religious symbolism used on Mihawk, that may also mean that he'll show up in the end at Raftel, given all the sun-god references.

Actually, I realized smth funny. You see, a swordsman is meant to be the close-distance fighter, and a sniper fighting on long-range, but when the strawhats approach Egghead island, it's Zoro that apparently was the only suitable one capable of cutting or attacking that star Vega engulfed in the sea water, hovering above the sea.

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Usopp_Tactics#Post-Timeskip

Hokaku Boshi (捕獲星, Hokaku Boshi?, literally meaning "Capture Star"):, Usopp uses a wide slingshot to launch a specialized harpoon that resembles a fishing hook on a reinforced rope to catch a deep-sea fish. This was first used in order to catch a fish that Luffy and Zoro defeated.[35] In the VIZ translation and Funimation adaptations, this is called Capture Star.

Of all the (otherwise rather silly named) attacks (Sun/Star God) Ussop has, this one seems to stand out and could also mean that he'll eventually become the Star/Sun God, or he may end up using this to do so. And it's especially ironic given the star that Zoro cuts/interfers with at Egghead island approach, rather than Ussop with an attack named like that.

[tacit ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/mcjuggernuggets-chillout-gif-9568957628594437754

[split glacier]

This dude still chatting

[fringe zinc]

one long yap session

[stray monolith]

Journey to Yaptale

[loud marlin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MemePiece/comments/1ahwsga/chapter_about_saturns_past_has_been_leaked/

[lone zealot]

its called manga-theories for a reason lol

[lunar talon]

#manga-theories message if you wanna read mine
I also had the same thought, unfortunately in chapter 1089, we see Laboon still at Reverse Mountain. And I don't think Crocus would abandon Laboon.
Would have been cool though

[lone zealot]

ah okay, thanks

@brave yew guess we'll hafta abandon this theory then

[dry sable]

"i keep expecting buggy's fruit to be revealed to be some kind of insane awesome one with INSANE awakened abilities too lmao
like it was compared to luffy's so much early on, he was the first other devil fruit user he met and his fruit was like his opposite, immune to slashes instead of blunts
and now where buggy's been positioned in the story... and the fact the PIRATE KING HIMSELF found that fruit...
oh wait, or buggy fished it up
but god knows where he did, on the oro jackson, y'know
the Moon God Bika
whose original joyboy equivalent sliced up all the world's continents into the random islands we know now in OP verse"

[hoary hatch]

Buggy didn't find the Chop Chop Fruit. During some battle, another crew member found it and after the fight, Shanks told Buggy the news about it and how everyone was excited because it was worth a million. So it wasn't Buggy who found it. The reason he got it was that he volunteered to eat it (so clearly this crew did not work like the Whitebeard crew where finder can keep the DF.)

[dark quail]

Speaking of Laboon, heres the best evidence i have that Yorki made it out of the calm belt

Bonk Punch was on the Rumbar Pirates, hes even a musician

[untold lance]

that is a similar-ish scar but didnt all the rumbar pirates die in the florian triangle?

[dark quail]

no, the half that were sick left with yorki on a new boat through the calm belt,

[untold lance]

wouldnt he be like 90 though?

[dark quail]

also, brook is onehundred percent why the rumbar pirates that stayed on the ship got sick

[untold lance]

I guess he could just look real good for his age, kureha is 100 something

but i gotta be real that doesnt look like a 90 year old man

[dark quail]

so, they were all sick with something uncurable, unknown, which is what happened to hiriluk, who was miraculously cured,

they found the cure, silvers, kureha, crocus, all seem to be kind of detached from the whole aging thing.

also theres this, official coloring

[untold lance]

crocus is only 73 and looks 73

idk about kureha shes like a special case

[dark quail]

I find it wild that looking the right age is what youre getting caught on

[hoary hatch]

We still don't know for certain who was that guy drinking with Crocus. Oda just drops that panel and never elaborates... Chapter 631? THAT WAS SO LONG AGO!

[untold lance]

its not like the difference between 25 and 40, whatever who knows. but 90 is oooooollllld

[dark quail]

they wouldnt have just shaken off the disease, it had to have been cured, and we know shit gets weird in one piece when you get cured or take medicine

one of the worst generations entire thing is fucking with age

giolla can make you a permanent painting if she wanted,

we know the little humans on the island chopper goes to claim to be able to cure anything with the berries that grow up the tree

hiriluk was cured of his terminal disease

whitebeard seemed to fight his with sheer will

sugar looks like an infant

hell we have characters that can jump forward in time

that dude IS wearing a wano strawhat... maybe toki crossed their paths? (super unlikely, just that there are so many possibilities

hell, hes kinda got that jaw going, might not even be human

[untold lance]

id say its in the realm of possibility but would require a lot of speculation/assumptions to get there. The similarites on the side of being a musician and having a similar scar to me seem outweighed by the problems of it being so long ago. Absent any other information I just assume people age normally.

[dark quail]

ok

[untold lance]

I wonder if we're even gonna get more info regarding red hair pirates, oda might just leave it in mystery \

[dark quail]

side theory:

yorki is a sattelite (whatever analog vegapunks sattelites play in the big story

shanks is one too. Shaka, they even have a same panel a few chapters apart

"tell cp0 to give us X and to leave immediately"

"tell the kidd pirates to give us their poneglyphs and leave immediately"

yorki is york

lilith is lili

which leave these 3

oh

[brave yew]

and this dude still not recognizing my valuable contributions, apparently

[brave yew]

thanks. the others apparently are only here for complaining

[dark quail]

luffys 'number' is 56 right?

5 and 6 are luffy to a T

hyperviolence, whose job is to fight, has the same vibe as Dorry and Broggy on little garden when they say "when the volcano blows we know its time to fight"

york is ms eat everything and turn it into energy for everyone, luffy does this for himself,

there could be something to 5 and 6 showing whose 'bloodlines' luffy has

[brave yew]

I see, yeah, so this is just even more confirmation for it being at reverse mountain and crocus. gg

[brave yew]

Is Edison just Vivi's duck from arabasta? looks like it

[dark quail]

oh shit,

alright, you know the lightsaber that bonney uses that ends up attracting insects?

thats an analog for the artificial sun or the moon

i only got to this because of the Dark Forrest theory

the idea that the universe seems so empty because anyone who makes a 'peep' anyone who 'lights a campfire in the dark woods' is only shooting a signal flare to the beasts in the forest where a guaranteed meal is.

the only survivors are the apex predator and those who figured out how to hide

vegapunk fucked up the saber and it attracted bugs instead, bonney hates bugs, beetles and herculees beetles have been a constant throughout the entire story

an artificial sun, vegapunks ultimate dream,

but what the fuck do you think happens when a brand new star just pops into existance, in the night sky

it catches the attention of the bugs in the universe

vegapunks analog likely made that artificial sun, and whoever turned it on realized that it was a death sentence for the planet

the bugs showed up

now you cant really put that shit back in the bag, its a star in the sky, anyone can see you, where you are, and how to get to you

which supports one of my die hard theories in that there is a dark curtain around the planet. a birdcage. this planet has been hiding in the dark using the global climate control (the atmosphere of water vapor)

the planet being like wano
producer of weapons that get in and out at the permission of the dragon in charge, completely shut off from the world behind inpenetrable walls,

lighting up that sun was a death sentence for the planet

heres the thing

Luffy loves hunting for beetles.

luffy is going to have a funnel of all of the universes biggest baddest everything that have been trying to find a treasure planet for a thousand fucking years, and hes going to be able to bonk them all to protect his treasure

something tells me that hes gonna like that

christ its like thriller bark

theres a floating shiny distress beacon out in the middle of the ocean that attracts pirate ships (space pirates enel fights) and once youre close enough you get sucked into the planet forever, behind a dark curtain, behind thrriller barks dark fog, sucked in by the planets gravity, an unbelievably large celestial body that is unable to be seen until its too late

this alludes to the planet being a ship like thriller bark is an island turned ship, with oars being the only one strong enough to turn the rudder

gecko moria even gives his whole 'you have no clue the monsters that wait ahead strawhat, hahahaha....' followed by giant ominous red eyes in the fog ( i think these are the mechanized sea beasts, sbs at the time point to oda ready to pull the trigger on the vegapunk reveal but changed his mind

ive always wondered why there is almost zero star navigation in a world full of ships

theres almost a near zero focus on the stars, the one time literally being in brooks flashback, out in the grand line, looking up at the stars wondering if laboon is looking at the same stars (weird wording)

theres also when shirahoshe goes up to MG for the first time and talks about how the world above the sea is so sparkly

i cant help but think this is an analog for going to space and seeing the real stars for the first time,

even dog and cat talk about how luffy is the one to bring about the 'real' dawn or something, i cant find it, i think they say it before going sulong the last time in wano

[dark quail]

this floated up on the subreddit and goddamn there might be something to it

vega big moms first husband?

[eager frost]

just when you thought #manga-theories can't fall any further

[brave yew]

not vega, but rather the candy-man, given that big mom is a big cry-baby and... the candy man is the candy man.

or do you mean that because vega has his tongue sticking out alike candy-man? No, that has a different reference as its reason, not the addiction to candy...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein_in_popular_culture that's why

And the apple on Vegapunk's head obviously refers to Newton.

[pure raven]

Redline theory

#First assumption/ The Redline was created by the former Nika-Nika fruit user.

The Redline has an extraordinary shape. It may not have acquired its ring formed shape through natural causes. The Nika-Nika fruit gives its user the ability to rubberise material.

#Second assumption/ The magnetic field around another ring formed section of the sea were influenced by the former Jiki-Jiki fruit user.

Nevertheless this assumption does not clarify how the Calm Belt emerged.

#Third assumption/ The poneglyphs were distributed by Nefertari Lily.

The Nikyu-Nikyu fruit gives its user the ability to teleport material.

#Fourth assumption/ Dividing the planet was a coordinated act by the Ancient Kingdom to impede the access to the One Piece.

The One Piece is located in the Grandline. Navigating through the Grandline is nearly impossible because of the unpredictable magnetic fields and the weather.

Although the question why the weather changes rapidly is unanswered.

The Redline cuts twice through the Grandline. The only acces to the Grandline is the Reverse Mountain.

The Road Poneglyphs were distributed to the allies of the ancient kingdom.

Wano, Elbaf, Ryugu Kingdom, Zou

All four island have one similarity. They are difficult to reach because of different conditions. That makes them to suitable hosts of the Road Poneglyphs.

Three of these allies reside in the New World where the weather conditions and magnetic fields are the most erratic. The Ryugu Kingdom controls the passage to the New World under the Redline.

[lone zealot]

Elbaf in on itself isnt hard to reach imo.

its just that there are those powerful giants there, which greatly serves the purpose of keeping the poneglyph safe. now that the giant warrior pirates' leaders are coming for the sun god, its quite a good assumption to say the next poneglyph is at elbaf

[abstract crescent]

Hear me out.
Blackbeard kills Imu.

Or

Imu kills Blackbeard.

And these events would happen within or after, the Elbah Arc.
If it even becomes an Arc.

[livid girder]

thank you for your jawbreaking spoiler

[hardy trench]

akainu and blackbeard will kill each other in the final or near final arc instead

[lone zealot]

akainu is fighting dragon

[fading wolf]

!lethimcook

[vast plume]

!cook

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486983010025996299/1200151281201840298/IMG_4388.png?ex=65c522fb&is=65b2adfb&hm=c8914c18acb8f237bfcf50eaed5d61f12d528d40d9422896dbf6a873c4477a36&

[glacial frost]

!cook

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486983010025996299/1200151281201840298/IMG_4388.png?ex=65c522fb&is=65b2adfb&hm=c8914c18acb8f237bfcf50eaed5d61f12d528d40d9422896dbf6a873c4477a36&

[pure raven]

I think blackbeard kills/defeats shanks and his crew

I think there will be a battle between shanks and bb for sure. Shanks leaving elbaf and bb learning about the last ponegliff being in elbaph, they would eventually meet and clash

[fading wolf]

!cook

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486983010025996299/1200151281201840298/IMG_4388.png?ex=65c522fb&is=65b2adfb&hm=c8914c18acb8f237bfcf50eaed5d61f12d528d40d9422896dbf6a873c4477a36&

[dark quail]

MY GABABABA BOY
MY PREACIOOUS GABABABABA BOY
HES BACK AND HES SWINGING MEAT

I grinned like a fucking idiot at the spoils

ARE THEY REALLY ASKING WHY WE ARE HERE?

most terrififying pirates in the world dissapeared overnight 100 years ago, and now they just pulled up,

saturn is going to take a hokaku sov to the face

also, notice the whole 'did you hear a voice just now' is a lot like Noland and the Shandoran bell

[dark quail]

yall laughing at this like
1 big mom doesnt fuck everyone to have children with them
2 vegapunk through MADS was very close to ALL of the Rocks pirates when they were attempting to clone every one of them, all while big mom was a fucking smokeshow. vega was likely spearheading the program personally, we know the WG picked him over the others and that Stussy stayed with him over the others
3 pero is her first child, hes 50 years old, right about the time Mads was messing with Rocks pirates
4 physical character traits are very telling in this world
5 perospero is the smartest of the char kids

hell, vega may have not had a choice in the matter, hes frail, he had no sattelites at the time, big mom might have just seen the smartest person shes ever met in her life and... took it.

[untold lance]

Yeah idk i dont find it too be that tinfoily/memey. It would be a bit wild but they probably would have known each other and interacted and the timelines line up. Seems more possible than people are giving you credit for

streusen is also a possibility though

kinda gross though considering he took her in as a child

[dark quail]

struessen is a slimy fuck, has he done right by big mom since? sure, but slimier than grease.

theres an analog going on with him, and im nearly NEARLY certain its figarland.

streussen is the head baker, can bake anything

I think figarland can either grow anything, hes a gardener 'garland'

or hes like shanks whose hometown is known for their brewing abilities (binks sake) and can brew anything

imu has likely been groomed since childhood by whoever streussen is an analog of

[dark quail]

on that topic, i think in big moms story, not only is Semla an analog of Soma, the liqour of the gods

the croqembouche, the Wedding Cake, is an analog for Funeral Sake

from the characters that know and toast to their deaths, to Odens whole scene where he finishes a gourd of sake at his friends funeral bbq, er... pyre.

I think the rampage that is being curtailed by Roger proclaiming the one piece exists (just like perospero and the backup wedding cake)

With Sanji being the shanks analog (when the crew pulls up on yonji, it parallels when 'shanks' walks into the gorosei room, cloaked, face half obscured, confused for another character with an S name) and how he saves the day for being a savant chef and procuring a seemingly fitting replacement for the rampaging kaiju of a big bad,

and with shanks tidbit about his hometown being known for their brewing abilitiy (to whitebeard)

im inclined to think that not only is part of the One Piece a batch of god liqour (as mentioned by dorry and broggy) called Soma (from big mom and Semla)

but in addition to being destroyed like the wedding cake, the lie of its existence was told while there was none

shanks however, like sanji, will rise up to the task,

In my head i call the gorosei Shanks 'Yonks'

it also is a good clue into how shanks got in the chest that roger opens,

garling is talking to 'children' while hes killing wantonly on godvalley

Garling was taking his kids on an a demonstrative emotionless excursion a la the style of Judge

shanks was there, on godvalley, we know he was found by roger after the incident

Shanks, like Sanji, was likely 'saved' by one of his siblings on god valley,

saved like how corazon saved Law, knowing someone strong (and likely someone the saver looked up to for his antics) plunked Shanks into the chest for roger to find

(unless oda pulls the subversion and shanks was pushed from the nest by his siblings for being too agressive but i doubt it)

which could bring significant meaning to why shanks cried, maybe thats when figarland learned that shanks wasnt just killed in the godvalley incident, but has either replaced him already like king Stelly did Sabo, or just doesnt give two shits.

there is also a potential significance to Buggy through all of this. we dont know where he showed up, just that he and shanks seem to be completely tied in childhood,

corazon gave law the fruit that doffy desperately wanted, the fruit that could make him king of the world, whisking it away from his grasp

if buggy was found in the same chest....

im not sure what to extrapolate, only that buggy might have some enormous significance to the storym maybe more than shanks.

[maiden socket]

so a lot of us know the good ol' "chopper has the yeti fruit", but hear me out... he doesn't. the yetis in one piece are shown to have white fur, and we know because of luffy that awakened forms can change the user's hair colour to match their fruit. whenever chopper uses his monster point, assuming it's his awakened form, his fur remains brown. and notably, he's much larger than any yeti we've seen.

so what could his fruit be?

a wendigo.

i can't post pictures of course, but the resemblance between monster point and a wendigo is MUCH closer than a yeti is. they're horned beasts similar to reindeer and are capable of shapeshifting into forms similar to humans, but never quite the same - leaving a level of uncanniness. they're also capable of shapeshifting into other various forms sometimes based on other animals, but when dealing with humans it takes on human-like forms. they're also notably capable of speaking with humans and share human intelligence. all of these things sound a lot like what chopper can do, so i believe that chopper has a mythical wendigo zoan.

[dark quail]

ill do you one simpler

chopper is one of the automatons that we see on the moon, a tanuki automaton,

we see in the heiroglyphs from enels story that the moon people were putting something in a chest hatch of the automatons and dropping them to the planet

I think this was their way of reincarnation/rebirth/immortality,

the hatch being for a devil fruit but i digress

when zoro gets thrown to the muggy kingdom and fights the humandrills, miwhawk says that the muggys could mimic incredibly well to the point of getting them to farm and them posing a genuine threat to zoro with weapons

papagu says that he can speak completely fine despite being a starfish, because he thought he was a human until learning he wasnt pretty far into childhood, having learned to speak just because he thought he was a human

Chopper is a reindeer because he grew up around them. He can change form because hes an honest to god tanuki, just an ancient kingdom made one

theres a point in drum kingdom where hes trying to ascertain an enemies weak points, and as hes got his little hooves out in front making a diamond, it shows his vision has a crosshair. this is swept under the rug because cartoon goofy haha, but there are aa handful of times that it happens to other characters, mostly Franky, who is, a big ass robot anymore.

i do think his hito hito is special,
like, maybe the actual person who was called nika with luffys being the worlds collective percieved image of nika

there is one more very interesting aspect about the automatons though

They ALWAYS have a hat on.

All of tsumikis crew? special identafiable hats on each, all of the heiroglyphs? little hats. all of the awoken automatons? hats.

The automatons not only assume the look of who they are around or commanded to be, but the hats are a plot device to show directive.

heres something that happens consistently for the few times that automatons are shown

whoever saves their lives, they adopt the 'will' of

tsumiki saved their lives, and the lt spacey crew became extensions of tsumiki, down to leaving the planet to enact revenge on whoever was responsible for his big scare. Enel saved them from the space pirates (even though enel was trying to kill them too, the electricity powered them instead) and because of enel saving them, they pivoted and swore allegiance to enel.

All of the automatons that Enel woke up, instinctively became his to command, they were more or less dead until he showed up

They get saved and they adopt the will of their saviour

hiriluk saved chopper, gave chopper a hat, and gave chopper food. Chopper took the hat, declared he was going to be a doctor, and that he waas going to carry out the will of his mentor by finding the panacea

chopper took on hiriluks dream, down to taking on his hat

[dark quail]

this might seem a little deep end, but buckle up

where else does this happen in the story?

nico robin.

Strange girl, raised among archaeologists, wants to become an archaeologist,

then saul shows up,

Saul not only gives nico robin a loag of bread (admittedly its one she gave to him but he gave back telling her to eat it) but gives her a directive, to laugh, and to live until she finds friends on the sea.

She even is introduced to the story 1 wearing a cowboy hat that very few characters outside of yorki and saul wear and 2 on the run from the government like saul was introduced

nico robin is an automaton as well

and heres the other foot

who else, after giving him food, saves his life, gives him a hat, and has the automaton take on his dream?

Monkey D. Luffy

eats shanks fruit, gets saved from death from shanks, is given a hat from shanks, declares to become a pirate like shanks after growing up idolizing them, and is even given a directive in 'take good care of this and bring it back to me on the grand line

can transform into things
gets along with all of the animal races
mimics mannerisms of just about every race weve come across down to minks (zoro and luffy are running around labo phase and luffy says 'i always go all out' just like whicheever mink says that on zou)

but hes also ALWAYS mirroring choppers childlike mindset, love for bugs, LOVE for big robots,

hes constantly shown being with chopper doing what chopper is doing in the color spreads and cover stories, hell, even in skypeia theres a spread of both of them sucking down pumpkin juice (which addmittedly is more of a nod to the hito hito)

HIS POWERUPS ARE LITERALLY GEAR SHIFTING

besides, Nami can and has commanded him to do things, starting from her asking for help all the way to her commanding him to stand back up on the roof of onigashima

she is birkan, the automatons were dormant in Birka on the moon,

dr tsumiki lived on the island that vegapunk grew up on, and had a bunch of spare parts that he must have seen fall from the moon and went out to get during his nights watching

Vegapunk would have known about lt spacey and the gang,

Vegapunk has also had acces to

ROCKS pirates DNA
Warlords DNA
Extinct animal DNA
Buccaneer DNA

Vega dropped a call to Dragon before the buster call started

Vega and Dragon know eachother in the past and interacted (we know) from the aftermath of ohara

Dragon trusted vegapunk so Kuma trusted vegapunk

I think Luffy is the

"Robot of our dreams"

There is something to be said about the Goa kingdom being the trash kingdom, in that luffy could have been found instead of handed off by tsumiki,

[inland cobalt]

Nami isn’t birkan she A. Has no wings B. We know where she’s from it’s Oykot

[dark quail]

thats where she was found as a baby, that doesnt mean shes from there.

She was sent to weatheria
she commands the weather
she can inherently tell pressure in the air
Enel let her come with him on the Maxim

the wings are up in the air, Some people that should have them dont, Enel, Gan Fal, the kami when the shandorans were shot to skypeia

Urouge has birkan wings but when he was a child he had shandian wings

besides, youre telling me wings cant be cut off? especially if it was a visual cue that someone was a species the government was interested in

she could even control the wavers easy peasy

[inland cobalt]

she doesn't command the weather she has a weapon that does and the weather wizards aren't a sky people atm just scientists

You are attributing weather to Skypieans when that isn’t a trait they have ever shown.

[dark quail]

i know she doesnt have powers, but she can control the weather around her using those tools.

she was taught to by haredas, they use wind knots and weather balls,

haredas was born on birka

he became fascinated in an already established birkan science of weather study, and at the age of 30 built weatheria to take some fellow scientists off to document the weather all over the world

All of the weather manipulation devices the weatherians use are grown from plants. wind knots, weather ball

im attributing weather to Birkans, not skypeians

The 'robes' the weatherians wear show that it is what the celestial dragons robes are trying to mimic

[inland cobalt]

????????????????

Please do not post head canon

[midnight pendant]

in viz' translation it says we are here for you straw hat so does that mean to support you or to fight you? whose side are they on?? its possible that they have allegiance to shanks and finding out the burning of flag they might be against mugiwara
i hope they are to support

[inland cobalt]

they aren't stupid if they wanted to let him die they just wouldn't interfere they are almost certainly there to help plus shanks is literally introduced overlooking minor infractions

picking a fight with an emperor over a dumb flag burning is extremely out of character

[midnight pendant]

flag burning is considered as start of fight did u skip eneis lobby
and they dont know if luffy would lose if they leave him be
even without them interferring they have an upperhand rn

[dark quail]

and giants are very very honor bound

i doubt it is but god... imagine

[midnight pendant]

yes this honor thing. their island is under shanks and shanks flag is burned which is dishonorable and thus they go for revenge or somehthing. i hope it doesnt happen but still

[inland cobalt]

Shanks does not share the values of the WG that's the difference

the WG places incredible value in stuff like that while shanks is only mildly annoyed at bartos shenanigans

they also identify him as Nika specifically and the chapter is literally called "on your side"

[midnight pendant]

on your side is for bonney not for luffy

[inland cobalt]

it's a double meaning

[wary charm]

1. Only Luffy will achieve his dream and his crew members won’t cuz Oda forgot abt them.

2. Someone in the Monster trio will die just like a crew in the crew trio got defeated and a brother in the big bros trio died.

3. Bonney gets killed by Pacifista and Vegapunk has a stroke and becomes dumb.

[lone zealot]

4. you get hit by a car.

[dark quail]

https://tenor.com/view/i-predicted-the-last-one-caleb-sullivan-smite-i-foretold-the-last-one-prediction-gif-17661360

[hot current]

bro had his own one piece

[dark quail]

crew trio gang rise up

[shy spear]

The best part is... it's not a trio anymore....

[tidal turtle]

Good morning

[brave yew]

"I only have correct theories, sorry"

[lone zealot]

lmao

[brave yew]

but yeah I mean by scrolling up, you should quickly be able to find wild theories, independent of if they're accurate or close to that or not.

[hardy trench]

first one brother died, then two crews fell out of the race, so now all three monster trio members must fall

[wary charm]

5. There’s a 3rd timeskip

[vast plume]

6. A Sequel

[wary charm]

7. Luffy gets defeated by a dog in Laughtale

[wary charm]

Sorry, when did Kid’s crew fell out?

[hardy trench]

akainu mid diffed him after he oneshot shanks

[vast plume]

So what the theory?

[sacred elbow]

bro got the teeth teeth no mi

[vast plume]

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1021911533971849267/1133032786350047282/IMG_1715.png

[chilly pagoda]

Anyone watch Daks here

The Afro Theory is airtight ngl. It's so well argued

But it's too wacky in my opinion for the grand ending of one piece, no way Oda would resort to that

[versed hamlet]

Can you summarize it?

[chilly pagoda]

The one piece is located under the long ring long island, where it leads to Davy Jones Locker Joyboy's ship. That's where the treasure is hidden. At the centre of it is Joyboy's Afro

It's more connected to Brook and Laboon

I feel with these theory , they always tend to nitpick a certain part and go from there

Hidden Island's theory is my favorite tho. The One Piece bejng a place and not an object is so genius

[lone zealot]

and tbf I'd laugh at an afro too

[wooden marsh]

What if devil fruit don't exist in void century and were created by ancient technology. Zoan type fruit was created by trapping people and animals in fruits.

[pearl tusk]

Your close, i think devil fruits came to be in response to some evil/void power or technology

It was the answer to the “god power” on some yin n yang energy

[oblique isle]

I had a theory that the op op no mi eternal youth actually turns you into a devil fruit because technically devil fruits can't die as far as we know

[mortal rose]

what if Joyboy created DF's and Nika Nika fruit has his spirit inside it

[wooden marsh]

Shanks knows only after the appearance of nika, one piece could be claimed. Oden knew Joyboy will appear in wano in future after specific time, means the future prophecies were mentioned at laugh tale. A certain heart beat is required to awaken the fruit, heartbeat of joyboy. I believe Nika and Joyboy are different entities.
People who mention nika don't mention Joyboy and vice versa.

People who mention Joyboy
Fish-Men
Zunesha
Oden
Kaido

People who mention Nika
Five Elders
Kuma
Vegapunk

[trim ravine]

nah he just drinks milk

[kind cipher]

whos who also mentioned nika

[sacred elbow]

nika isnt real, the nika fruit is, so joyboy using the nika fruit inherited nikas will, same with luffy. the fruits were dreamed up by people who believed in nikas legend, (even kuma admits its just a legend)

[wooden marsh]

Why Joyboy and nika never mentioned by same person, even in wano when zunesha mentioned only joyboy and five elders only mentioned nika

[sacred elbow]

that's circumstantial, cuz zunesha knew joyboy as a friend, the gorosei knew him as an enemy, plus the gorosei have further hated the idea of nika more than joyboy himself, seen as they were willing to wipe out all of the buccaneers simply for "wanting to save people like nika". The gorosei hate every single user of the nika fruit, and most importantly nika himself

[frozen birch]

Nika is the mythological figure, Joyboy is an actual person who lived during the void century. some people believe in and refer to Nika as a mythological being, others refer to Joyboy as a historical figure

[plain barn]

Crazy random theory. What if Dragon wasn’t born a woman ? And he’s ( or maybe she ) is Luffy’s mom and that’s his alias so he don’t reveal his true self

[lone zealot]

i got nun of that

[tame mango]

Anyone got any good Rocks D Xebec theories?

[brave yew]

no it isn't, it's at reverse raftel mountain island that Trafalgar Law, the king of the pirates flipped over to hide it from pirates

(which is why the water flows upward there)

[brave yew]

nika represents Tarzan just like how Luffy is heavily inspired by Tarzan (and for those not seeing it, just ask and I can explain why)

[brave yew]

no, the emo (tallest iroquoise hair-cut isn't there for nothing, and butterfly-(lover)-reference and him only saying "Lily..." neither https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Lovers ) that is Imu created the passion (devil) fruits

[brave yew]

the only thing I could see speaking for long long island would be that as a ring it forms a navel-shape and the one piece is at the navel of the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos

According to the myths regarding the founding of the Delphic Oracle, Zeus, in his attempt to locate the center of the Earth, launched two eagles from the two ends of the world, and the eagles, starting simultaneously and flying at equal speed, crossed their paths above the area of Delphi, and so was the place where Zeus placed the stone.[1]
Just substitute the 2 eagles with which to forma cross with 4 red poneglyphs forming a cross to locate the place (i.e. reverse mountain, the place if it's flipped over will connect the seas for the all blue).

It's more connected to Brook and Laboon
Guess what's more connected to Brook and Laboon: Reverse Mountain, where laboon's waiting.

[frail briar]

1. elbaf will be training arc for those without haki
2. ussop will get a power up
3. strawhats find vivi and wapol and learn about imu
4. strawhats team up with revolutionaries to take down wg

[inland cobalt]

I doubt it’s a training arc we have had 1 in 1000+ chapters

[frail briar]

If there isn’t one for those without haki they would be useless in the final war

In the manga they are mainly relying on luffy without him being there they would all be dead

Of course they don’t they have millions

[inland cobalt]

You don’t need a training arc to get a power up

[frail briar]

Nah not a time skip like luffy showing people like ussop how to use it bc he already has it

[inland cobalt]

It’s almost exclusively just showing new stuff in one piece

[frail briar]

If shanks is already there they won’t send anyone

They don’t want to risk a war with 2 emperors

Maybe power up for franky as vegapunk can modify him

There is a chance vegapunk has the knowledge and franky would probably want to learn from him or get a power up from him

Bb will steal his fruit for his 3rd fruit

• robin will read the books in Ebaf about the ponegliffs

That Saul saved

Yeah and it would maybe make sense if luffy is the sun god and Imu is the moon god or something

It’s possible bc luffy and shanks connection

And it could be 3 joining together as cross guild could join in bc of luffy saving buggy and crocodile and his connection to shanks

Not likely giants would help them also the robot that is starting to move in egghead island

That would hold all those marines back giving them no chance to call hq

Didn’t it say 800

Lemme check

Built 900 years ago attacked marijioe 200 years ago

No only makes sense if imu killed him and that big hat is his straw hat as he was a giant

Probably someone was Nika or it was coded that way by the old user of vegapunks fruit

Only makes sense if she did

That’s why they’re so afraid of someone awakening the fruit

Nah luffy is his reincarnation

And probably with the awakened fruit of toki they can travel in the past

No point of that if luffy is going to be the next joyboy/nika

Already said that he is both

Nah it would tell them everything about the void century

If they don’t find e Rio ponegliff

Yeah or in mariejoi or the last island not laugh tale

That roger reached before laugh tale

They need to find the man marked by the flame I doubt they would be there

Probably in an island with all the remisents of Roger’s crew

Only the Kozoki clan knows so maybe oden dad knows where it is

Plus they might go back to wano to get pluton and maybe momo or Yamato

Fish man one got taken by someone

Maybe Saul has it

Probably keeping it for someone to inherit Roger’s will

No it was in the forest

Where the other one was

Makes sense or else why would they take it

No one can read it but robin and odens dad

There wasn’t a road ponegliff in alabaster

It was in big moms territory

She had it since Roger’s time

So she probably took it time ago

Yeah

Or they won’t find the last one and nami can assume where it is

Not really no one has been there I think except from roger

Or they could making so that no one can become king of pirates ever again

Maybe shanks got it from one of Roger’s old crew mates as he was there too

[dark quail]

on top of another X

its two X's on top of eachother
I dont think the one piece is Under reverse mountain so much as using the one piece luffy will obliterate reverse mountain

blowing up reverse mouintain would destroy the bottleneck the WG has on the grand line, everything would be fucked current wise,

it would make the all blue

to me it looks like they arfe looking at an enormous wano strawhat

i figure it was made specifically to make the grand line inaccessable without going through reverse mountain

like, the only way to get to the grand line and by extension, Marie Joa, you have to go through the door on the literal polar opposite side of the planet

what? the switch boats at the port thats directly under MG

if you want to get to the other side of the grand line (and follow rogers steps) the government not only has to approve you to be allowed on that side of the grand line, but you have to be rich enough to afford a new ship

it lets them keep a better grasp on WHO the fuck is in the last half of the grand line, where all the important shit is kept

they have to approve every single ship that cant travel over calm belts or go underwater through fishman island

tell me then how two reverse mountains would work

it does when you want to completely control and know who is in that side of the world

only until recently did they have sea stone ships, and there is only the one passage under the red line

they had to be able to get around too

same people who buiilt the red line,

they were planning on ruling the world and the fact that they were considered to be gods makes me think they ended up doing it

you cant built a castle with ZERO doors, thats fucking dumb

or roads rather,
Mariejoa with the ship swap is the door, or purtcullis

[median fractal]

im sorry to ask but is it bad i havent read manga

like the one piece one

[dark quail]

ahhhh, gotcha

could be, there is the part of thriller bark where they get close to the castle and realize theres a fuckload more to it that has yet to show up in the main story

I figured it was a building that acts as a space elevator over MarieJoa

or a the rest of the eve tree rocketing up into the atmosphere to create a canopy that covers the rest of the planet

but to put it over reverse mountain would be interesting, especially because everyone goes, ah, first step on the journey and forgets about it even though its the natural end of the journey if you were to keep going past raftale

[inland cobalt]

No but you probably shouldn’t hangout in this chat unless you want to be spoiled (not a your not welcome thing to be clear)

[dark quail]

nah, itts cool, its big, lotta people read, lotta people watch, lotta people do both. youre more than welcome butyou gonna get spoiled for stuff that has been officially released

[median fractal]

oh igh

i read other manga

what if the center had something hidden up there

i mean the way the mountain works it could be a mechanial thing in the mountain

going forth the mountain should be explored a bit more

well

i mean considering the fact that theres a light house crocus may know something

also the guardian of the twin cape light houses

[cyan cargo]

I believe it to be, from what we can conclude we know it was mostly made during ancient times. We’ve already seen the technology from that time be able to make robots and travel space, the symbols on the front of the mountain also look like ones found in shandora ruins

[median fractal]

exactly my point

[cyan cargo]

You’re required to enter the mountain at specific angle or you could damage your ship, that definitely sounds like an intentional feature that was included

[median fractal]

exactly

if the mountain only allows certain ships of different sizes and angles how would the bigger ships get in

such as white beards ship

[dark quail]

thats a decent point honestly, it keeps ships too big from getting in the territory,

[wary charm]

Crocus is in the Beast Pirates.

[dark quail]

like, to amass the size and fleet of all of the yonko, they had to do it all in the latter half of the grand line

crocus predates the beast pirates

[median fractal]

no u got crocus at the light house too

unless

[wary charm]

Then Crocus is the 30th Straw Hat crew member after the Raftel arc

[cyan cargo]

Good point didn’t think about that

[median fractal]

30 members?

i like these theories

well it depeneds if he goes to raftel

[dark quail]

laboon is onhundred percent taking them to the final island

[median fractal]

and brook could meet laboon

and we also got one more member

oda said it could be dr vega punk

i mean idk

[wary charm]

No way the actual real vegapunk joins 💀

[cyan cargo]

I’m of the belief that the main body of VP will not survive it’s possible one of his clones could join

[median fractal]

vegapunk already asked multiple times to join

[dark quail]

ok, maybe not raftale, but theres always this sneaking suscpicion that nobody on shanks crew has fruits because it involves being underwater, but especially since we know that the mangrove bubbles and haki can get you there im inclined to think its not having to go underwater that is the reason shanks crew hasnt eaten them

so I doubt laboon will take them there. maybe protect, or sneak them somewhere, but not like, the final gate

[wary charm]

Who here still thinks Marineford is a filler?

[wary charm]

That means Oda knows he won’t join

[cyan cargo]

For safety but he is on deaths door now, if he lives sure but idt

[median fractal]

well oda did say there is one final member

[wary charm]

crocus.

[median fractal]

i would laugh and cry myself to sleep if its buggy

[wary charm]

|| It could’ve been Law in my opinion but now he got defeated ||

[median fractal]

either that or someone who has been in the show for awhile and we least expect it

[wary charm]

Then it’s the kid that gave the onigiri to Zoro in episode 2

Or the commander of the ship where Nami was in the 1st episode

[median fractal]

or

[wary charm]

Ofc I’m not serious

[median fractal]

hear me out

[wary charm]

I’m just joking, why’d you think some of those 3 would join? 😭

[median fractal]

yamato.

[wary charm]

oars solos

[median fractal]

never did LOL

[wary charm]

nope she will surely remain in wano kuni

WAIT-.. what if Kin’emon joins?!

He’s been with the crew for over 100 episodes

Or maybe, Yamato joins after she’s done with Wano

[median fractal]

idk

[dark quail]

cube, you should read a summary of the norse poem

Grottasongr

im near certain Oda is pulling a large ammount from it

more or less, there was a king, frodi who ruled a worldwide era of peace through an iron fist, frodi, or freyr (oddly enough i got to this from Freyrs rune when i was looking into dragons face mark (freyr was always joyful, takes what he wants and had a severe death penalty for stealing, leading to a period where they would hang a large solid gold ring in the town square to 'show' how safe it was, freyr also had a wicker circle ship that 'always had the wind at its back' meaning it didnt need water to go places and it was omnidirectional like a wicker ufo but i digress))

he bought a magic giant flour mill that could make anything, and he bought two slave giantess to push the mill day in and day out, making him richer stronger and more famous,

he wouldnt let them rest, and the whole time they sang, one long song, and they got to a part that worried frodi when they started singing that:

1 they were actually of the giants who made this magical mill, in fact they made THIS mill, before going out to lead a very successful sea king life (sea kings being norse kings who abdicate their claim to their throne in order to sail the seas, with the caveat being they were powerful enough to knock over any port they rolled into and claim it for their own for a while)

during which they were captured and sold into slavery

and now that they were getting tired of this shit they were going to mill into existence an army led by a hero that would conqour the kingdom and kill frodi

so they rolled up their sleeves and they 3d printed an army led by a hero warrior that slew frodi in his sleep, freeing the sisters,

they took the mill and sailed off to their homeland

on their way, the hero was having the sisters mill out a few things that would be useful to start their neighboring kingdom in the giant territory

the last thing he requested was salt

they mill, saying they would stop at midnight, as the mill was showing wear and they were feeling tired, and at midnight they ask the hero if they have made enough salt, and he asks, just a bit more, and they agree, but as they go to push the mill, it cracks, and the giant circular disk of the mill rolls of the ship and into the water,

sinking into the ocean it sucks the water in and sinking into the hole in the center, creates a vortex

all the water going in was being turned to salt

and being to large to lift from the bottom of the seafloor, and in the sea itself, the water of the sea slowly started to turn to salt, and that is why the ocean is salty

also where we get the term Maelstrom from

Mill Storm

which is used in one piece to either refer to the underwater dragon currents or theres a stretch of dangerous ocean with bigg long water funnel spouts flailing about, i cant remember which

but reverse mountain made me think of it being a large potentially spinning water mechanism

oh shit

thats the right shape for a millstone, down to the two small lines that would let the flour out

also we have those weird fucking yeti cool brothers Rock and Scotch

[median fractal]

lol

but wait

who were the giantess?

[dark quail]

also, its said to be impossible to log, which makes me think its not an actual island,

wait, dorry and broggy were instructed to fight every time the volcano erupted... by who and why

[median fractal]

the giantess

maybe she thought they were gonna overthow people

[dark quail]

theres a few versions of it, one in the prose edda and one in the poetic edda

being underwater makes sense given the poem is it sinking

it could also be an ancient wano situation, a sunken city

Id bet if there is anything to this, Punk hazard was him trying to recreate the mill

there is that whole conversation that big mom has with ceasar about how she recereated the entirety of the SAD factory for him to continue his research even though strawhat and law really fucked the last one

this is why i come here

[median fractal]

have u guys wondered what would happen to fishmen if they eat a df

jack the

[dark quail]

and the water comes out the top, and the canals,

goddamn it,

zou has the water distribute from the middle,

[median fractal]

wait what if reverse mountain is a water holder for some sort of project

[dark quail]

oh, you know what else is a perfect disc shape, that has direct channels on each side of it like it was engineered that way

the red line

of which, one literally sucks the water down into

[median fractal]

true enough

alr i got some ponyglyphs

The Rio Poneglyph (真の歴史の本文リオ・ポーネグリフ, Rio Pōnegurifu?, literally meaning "True Text of History") is, according to Robin, the message carried by all the Poneglyphs along the Grand Line. It is rumored to contain the true history of the world (including the "Void Century" of which research is forbidden).[12] In order to find it, one must take passages from the other Poneglyphs with them on their travels.[8] Gol D. Roger seemed to have accomplished this task, according to Rayleigh.[15] According to Tamago, the Rio Poneglyph is in fact composed of only nine Poneglyphs.[10]

so if there are nine

then there would be one about the history of the reverse mountain

At least 25 years ago, this Poneglyph was located at the Sea Forest next to Joy Boy's apology message.[36] At a certain point later, the Road Poneglyph whereabouts became unknown, and it is currently considered lost.[37] However, it is speculated to be in the possession of Hinokizu.[38]

unknown

Shortly after Oden joined the crew, the Roger Pirates traveled to Skypiea and found the Shandorian Golden Belfry Bell. Oden deciphered the message on the Poneglyph and wrote Roger's own message beside it.[8][49]

Fish-Man Island's Poneglyph
The Roger Pirates searching for poneglyphs.

After leaving Skypiea, the crew traveled to Water 7, and Roger learned en-route about the Road Poneglyphs at Wano Country and Zou, now having information about all of them, including the copy he had from Big Mom's and a hunch that the Sea Forest near Fish-Man Island held another one. The crew then continued sailing across the world and eventually reached Fish-Man Island, proving Roger's guess correct as they found the Road Poneglyph and learned the truth about Poseidon.

Returning to the New World, the crew reached Wano Country and read the Road Poneglyph there. Around the same time, Oden's wife, Toki, became ill and decided to stay in Wano with their children, Momonosuke and Hiyori, and Oden's retainers, allowing Oden to finish his quest.

Arriving at Zou, Roger used a recommendation from Nekomamushi in order to gain access to the Road Poneglyph in the Whale Tree.

Following the directions, the Roger Pirates drew a course towards the final island, and according to Oden's log, they learned the truth about the Void Century, the Will of D., and the Ancient Weapons. They also found the treasure left there by Joy Boy. Upon reaching their destination, the Roger Pirates burst into laughter, causing Roger to name the island Laugh Tale, as news of his achievement spread throughout the world, earning him the title of the "Pirate King".[15][36]

more information

im done for now ill leave it up to u guys

[dark quail]

oh fuck

the other channel that feeds into it has the eve tree reaching down and carrying with it oxygen and sunlight

the tree, is the mill, the 3d printer, using all four basic alchemical elements of water earth light and air can 'grow' anything

I think the poneglyphs are the harddrives
the thumb drive

the moon has the archival device, archiving everyone every night, updating them every day, printing them off the last save, they dont remember how they died, or that they died

[dark quail]

also kinda like the cube buttons in one of the last two ep

[median fractal]

helps

[dark quail]

oh baron omatsuri or whatever, exactly

[median fractal]

ima give more info tmr

if thts fine w u guys

[cyan cargo]

Makes me think there might be more to it, it could be a big submerged island like Wano

[lone zealot]

now who created log poses

[stable rock]

What about rylai, if she used frost blast?

[stable rock]

It’s easy to make them. You just need to collect the seastone outside

[cyan cargo]

The layout of it kinda does resemble a launch pad of sorts

[muted valley]

The real one piece is the friends we made along the way :^)

[odd cave]

TL;DR Haki created power and the ancient kingdom made it permanent by creating Devil fruits.

If it's not obvious and/or been theorized before, haki is the natural power of the One Piece world. We all know Devil Fruits are abominations in the eye of the sea which is why they are "hammers" and sink to the bottom of the ocean. However, I think this form of haki is what creates Devil Fruits and manifests the dreams and desires of humans into reality. Whatever form of Haki it is, it is without the necessity of training, but it's not supposed to be done in this way. It's always struck me as strange in the One Piece world where normal people would freak out at the sight of Luffy stretching. A good chunk of it is just not being used to it, but also because Devil fruits aren't natural and neither are these powers. People are less freaked out by haki than Devil fruits. I think it has to do with the ancient kingdom being able to permanently keep these desires inside of reality while also being within an alternate form of reality--per what Vegpunk said in Lucci vs Luffy--instead of a temporary thing that humans could access for whatever it is they desired at the time. Desires are fleeting, and so should these powers. Shiki's fruit allow flight,so one could escape being stranded somewhere. Ace's fruit for a place where fire cannot be made. Magellan's for assassinations. They're not supposed to have them their entire lives.

[versed hamlet]

can you elaborate more? ive never thought of alchemy -> one piece?

[median fractal]

back wsp

wsp cube

wait isnt there two calm belts bwteen the end of the reverse mountain and it goes straight for awhile so what if theres an opertational mine under the sea and the mechniasm is bigger then we thought it would be

oh

how were devil fruits and jolly rogers in op invented

[odd cave]

I VERY MUCH disagree with this because it would kill the mysticism of Devil Fruits, how they respawn into other fruits after user's death and how tf can nanobots time travel or teleport you? Vegapunk would've found nanobots too. Any one of them. Instead he says Fruit users are living within a reality of their own outside of normal peoples'. How true that is is a toss in the air, but nanobots is the last thing to explain them. He said they're made from desires.

Haki is a type of magic.

Yes

And

The ancient kingdom is able to use science that could look like magic to us.

[sand mortar]

I mean, devil fruits i would assume are like gods creations, some i mean most breaks the laws of physics and are, quite strange, they couldnt make sense however scientific way you put it.

[odd cave]

A utilization of magic made permanent through science.

[sand mortar]

but theres no way to prove that, what magic and what science can make the Luffys Nika Fruit?

[odd cave]

Haki and desire/dreams, like I said

Nika may be even more ancient or just folklore from or before the ancient kingdom

[sand mortar]

but thats baloney, Haki prevents Fruits, and dreams are in our head, how can we make a fruit like sengoku's with Haki and Dreams? you know i do dream of Ice, does that mean if i learn haki i can make a logia fruit of Ice? i dont think thats how it works.

[odd cave]

Like Kaido said, Haki transcends all

[odd cave]

also, did yoou read the theory? it's a type of haki that isn't needed to have through training

[sand mortar]

your taking that quote to the extremities if you actually think that is true, haki transcends all, as in, its the counter to fruits, or its like a super buff anyone can learn, and i havent read the theory no.

but i will assume its also quite, wrong.

[odd cave]

then everything you said is ignorant and nonconstructive at best if you haven't tried reading the theory

goodbye

[sand mortar]

ok buddy

[median fractal]

.

u guys know smth

[sand mortar]

thats even worse, i dont where you got the nanobot thing from but, hey.

[median fractal]

the all blue is the grand line

[vale aspen]

I've figured out what Oda's plan is that he will do with the Final Battle against the WG. This will involve Luffy's allies that are not the Grand Fleet (I.E: Sorbet Kingdom, Germa 66, Remnants of Big Mom Pirates lead by Katakuri, All of the Lesser Kingdoms in the East Blue (Orange Town, Cocoyasi Village, Loguetown, Dawn Island, Island of Magical Beasts, Gecko Islands, Baratie) Alabasta, Amazon Lily, Wano, Water 7, Skypeia + Shandora, Dressrosa, Prodence (I am maybe 60% certain), NEO MADS, SWORD, Morgans with the News Coo, Sakura Kingdom, Rayleigh + Shakky, Elbaf, Red Hair Pirates and Associates [If Shanks is not killed by Blackbeard], Cross Guild [I believe that Buggy will find the One Piece first and become the Pirate King, but he will give it to Luffy instead due to the promise made with Captain John's Treasure at Impel Down, and Buggy realizing that Nika can only fully utilize the One Piece.) + Grand Fleet. The preparation will take place on Elbaf. After the SHs + with Dorry and Broggy safely escort Vegapunk to Elbaf, he will unfold his plan to share his brain with the rest of the world. Since Vegapunk has secretly deciphered the texts of Ohara and found out about their research in the Void Century, he will certainly have had this catalogged. Through the preservation of Punk Records, and it's safe escort to Elbaf, he will make the final preparations with Saul, Loki, and the rest of Giants to expose the World Government's corruption, and the true history of the Ancient Kingdom along with the three great weapons. Once the citizens of the world has gained access to the Punk Records, this will start a massive revolt against the current regime and create the most massive rebellion since the Twenty Kingdoms went to war with the Great Kingdom. Since this will undermine the WG's authority, the final battle will commence to control the fate of the surface. I predict that many groups that were once hostile to the Straw Hats will join them in their quest to destroy the WG, along with the Revolutionaries.

[vale aspen]

Then that contradicts your first point.

Elbaf is the last bastion of the Ancient Kingdom. We can agree on that, especially with the reveal of Loki, Dorry and Broggy coming to save Nika, and Saul's hiding on the island.

His dream is not yet feasible, but it will be because of the Sun God Nika and his allies on Elbaf.

Nika is the key to the puzzle piece that allows Punk Records to be distributed throughout the whole world.

Precisely.

With the Goro Goro no Mi, Nika's powers of grabbing electricity, and the Punk Records, it could be accomplished. Think about it. Why would Oda show Gomu Gomu no Kaminari?

I also believe that the gate to the Sky Islands exists in Elbaf. So at some point, Enel would come down through that gate from the Sky Islands to Elbaf while everyone is there. Then the missing link is solved.

He will come back to the world, I guarantee it. There would be no way that Oda would let that cover story sit on a cliffhanger then never reintroduce him back into the story.

He finds out about the Void Century on the Moon and realizes that Luffy is Nika.

Perhaps then Enel dies and his DF is reincarnated on the Moon for a believer of Nika?

[hardy trench]

i don't like the idea of fruits being from nanomachines

i prefer a degree of spirituality and with the demonic gorosei and fixation on inherited wills i'm sure it's gonna be mystic

we don't know yet, but that's hardly a reason to assume that it's because electronics won't function in water

it's a long shot but i do like the theory that fruits are made from souls drowned when the world government flooded the world to destroy the ancient kingdom, and the sensation of drowning weakens the user

[vale aspen]

Why is there no Mizu Mizu no Mi?

Perhaps Imu has the Mythical Zoan that can control water.

[hardy trench]

it's a multi parter and a lot of it derives from layers of theory/interpretation

it's by the user mrufo/strawhatufo on twitter though

[vale aspen]

There really isn’t any information on why Devil Fruits are weak to the sea. We will have to wait for more evidence.

[median fractal]

Water, as a conductive medium, weakens the connection between the heart's electromagnetic field and the Devil Fruit powers. This disruption impedes the flow of energy associated with the abilities, resulting in a sensation of weakness and energy absorption.

its simple

yes

true

but sea water is hard to swim

its mainly salt

thriller bark shows salt killing zombies

ye

water nd salt

it like fire and water

[dark cedar]

Devil fruit users are weak to all standing water, not just seawater, so salt doesn't have anything to do with it

[median fractal]

well

iron is not the problem

flouride could be but idk

each element has a neutron

it could be the atoms that enter their body which condesenses to water nd the fruit is breaking the atoms or damaging

[dark cedar]

Seastone, which is made of Pyrobloin, has the same effect and it doesn't require atoms entering the body

Also, moving water and consumed water don't affect devil fruit users

[median fractal]

ik

pyrobloin is condesened from water

[dark cedar]

I don't think we have any sources that say that. Pagaya said that pyrobloin is ejected from volcanic eruptions. It just forms sky island clouds when it comes into contact with moisture in the air

[median fractal]

ye preciptation

[odd cave]

....no lol. I'm sorry...

[odd cave]

i like this
pls tell me more

[hardy trench]

not mine at all, long thread with multiple layers but it's from here

https://twitter.com/StrawhatUFO/status/1711631727100367121

Mr UFO 👒🛸 (@StrawhatUFO) on X

One Piece Theory:

The Fruits of the Great Flood - how the Devil Fruits came to be.

In this thread, I’ll connect the Devil Fruits to recent events in Egghead, and then reveal a secret Oda’s been hiding for years. Everything will come full circle.

#onepiece #onepiecetheory

Twitter · Oct 10, 2023, 6:36 AM

[odd cave]

Reading it right now. Would you mind taking a look at my theory if you haven't already?

[muted valley]

I'll read ur theory mirari nikki avatar person

[hardy trench]

so fruit powers are really a form of haki that the ancient kingdom turned into permanent fruits instead of something that can be activated and deactivated like haki?

i think the idea that desires should be fleeting and so should these powers does make sense, but i think fruits are based around dreams, deeper things than surface level "i wish i was warmer, i wish i had food" whims

i don't see "i want to free people", like what luffy's awakening seems to have been triggered by, to be a desire so minor and fleeting and if they're based around dreams this makes haki and devil fruits essentially willpower and ideals, like two sides of the same coin which i think is a really fun dynamic

[odd cave]

I think it's both dreams and desire. Just really strong will manifested into reality until that desire is sated. Dreams would be a longer, albeit still temporary thing, to manifest to execute some sort of long-term goal. "I desire to get off this island." "I dream of being free and bringing freedom to all--like Nika." Both want freedom in a way, but dreaming of freedom would apply more to the oppressed or slaves. Hearing about Nika would make one want to dream of freedom. Maybe they dream to be like Nika and so they manifested the powers of Nika from the folklore about him.

Side Note: I think Nika wasn't from the ancient kingdom and will still remain as folklore/legend, especially if Joyboy was the one to have his fruit. Even if Joyboy manifested the power and was then immortalized in a fruit, he had to have heard about Nika from somewhere. And if Joyboy was a Bucaneer, I especially think he would've wanted to BE (like) Nika just as much as Bonney can access a Nika-like future with her powers.

[hardy trench]

i feel like oda treats dreams as lasting indefinitely and acting like ideals for people to live by instead of goals for people to accomplish, "people's dreams never end" after all; can't ever see luffy becoming pirate king and accomplishing whatever his second dream is and happily settling down afterwards either

vegapunk himself said fruits are possibilities of human evolution, which is a pretty permanent change, though the veracity of his words is still under question as he's just theorizing and likely missing part of the puzzle

i can't say i agree with the idea but can't really prove/disprove it either. i just think dreams and desires are too major and disparate a concept to be categorized as a branch of willpower

[odd cave]

Lol yeah
I thought it was a fun theory and I get you. People's dreams never die, but people only die when they are forgotten. Their dreams might die with them, y'know.

The lore in One Piece excites me a lot, which is mostly why I'm into this story so much. So much to go off of.

Nika never 'died' and in some sense, neither did Joyboy.

[brave yew]

so fruit powers are really a form of haki that the ancient kingdom turned into permanent fruits instead of something that can be activated and deactivated like haki?
no it's Imu's ability...

[hardy trench]

ye i do think it's a fun theory, the idea that before devil fruits were created everyone could have lived so freely is really cool, my bad if i came off as too serious or critical

i just didn't think it really fit with the way dreams were treated in one piece

one piece has so many directions for it to turn it's so interesting

[inner apex]

I’m the one piece.

[brave yew]

Imu's the most emo emo -> feels empty inside -> ability develops to aid this need -> ability provides a food that suits this -> passion fruit is delicious -> but that'd only cure the symptom, not the cause -> cause is the strong desire -> so the passion fruit also gains the ability to aid towards strong desires -> their users can gain abilities for it -> and Imu's power applies to all people with strong enough desires.

For Imu to be considered critical to the world government, Imu doesn't have to be strong, just the existence of devil fruits and the powers of those that got them by eating them hinges on Imu's life.

desires is how all devil fruits and people's abilities not gained by devil fruits (like for Zoro or Jinbe able to control water currents) develop.

And that Imu's an emo is indicated by his tallest iroquise hair-style and emos being focused on feelings, relationships, romance, and Imu seems to have feelings for whoever Lily is, and Imu hangs out in the butterfly garden, surely should mean he's a butterfly-lover ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Lovers ).

Guess what desire granted Brook the ability to live longer (hint: it relates to laboon).

hm I guess it could even be that Luffy in the end invites everyone to Raftel (i.e. Reverse Mountain that Trafalgar Law flipped over when it was still Raftel, keeping the flipped over side intact to hide the treasure from the pirates since he isn't about materialistic desires since that's what the idea behind the song yellow submarine states for its theme which is what inspired Law and his crew's design), which everyone from every sea could reach, and when they depart, they carry their happy memories of meeting everyone else there with them, leading to peace.

And now I wonder if Law saying "tacto" may be in reference to the word "intact", because as surgeon he's about fixing broken stuff.

[dark quail]

birka king

silly oda

the one piece chicken combo

im pretry sure the devil fruits have something to do with dragons because of the awakening and also how dragon fruits look in real life

the halo of clouds is basically the clouds dragons make

also how crocodile has those banana gators with the fruit on their heads

im thinking there were dragons with the powers or something and they had the fruit on their head,
makes me think of chin jow in dressrosa

maybe a vine come to life with the fruit on the end

but someone sometime took the dragons fruit because, well, it looks like a fruit

theres been a bunch of cover storys lately of people cutting up vegetables and fruit, the usopp sanji one has usopp thinking of his crew back home

im guessing there was a hunt for dragon fruits, in ignorance of their significance in the balance of power, or even juswt a holy tab oo of stealing the forbidden fruit

[pure raven]

A theory I was cooking (expanded):

All of the elders are from different time periods since the void century. When the WG gets the OP OP fruit they offer immortality to the current holy knight leader, granting them an elder position in return for serving Imu. This would explain why one of the elders had only heard that the Nika fruit was an absurd power, he wasn't around when it was last awakened. This could also relate to Saturn's test on Ginny. He might have been trying to make something that could alter their ages. The Op Op fruit supposedly does the Perennial Youth Operation, but we have no source or people who are immortal to prove that it really makes you youthful, it may just freeze your age. This would explain the elders various ages, it would even create some interesting situations. Looks might not be a determinant of ages among the elders if true.

Thoughts?

[slender fulcrum]

As far as we know Nika could just have been an hero from a comic book of the VC and when the DF became a thing someone just wanted to be like him and it became real

anything is on the table at this point

[chilly spade]

Y’all talking abt the theory that everything in OP is formed by dreams or whatever? At least the DF I think it said were formed some way like that

We talked abt the fruit coming real because so many people dreamed of being saved by Nika and brought the fruit and therefore Nika into existence by enough people dreaming of it

In here before

[dawn ibex]

I finally decided to catch back up to the manga but as I was reading I was thinking that maybe the drums of liberation is what powers the ancient robot. My mind might be hazy but I think last time luffy went g5 it eyes lit up and he did it again now and the eyes lit again

I just searched about it and it looks like it’s an old theory hm

[median fractal]

tbh

have u guys looked at the sea kings and how they rise up its like a video game character or smth idk but remember the ice hunter ark where they used cutout carboards as ships and it looked real what if the sea kings are to warn people entering the grand line and trying to save them just like the accino family used carboards and ice moving to lure the straw hats in

i mean let me show a comparison

nvm i cant

[dark quail]

the robot being powered is likely in the vein of Nicola Tesla who believed energy could be beamed like a radio wave for free and power everything wirelessly. Ithad to have a matching frequency,

Luffy seems to be able to take in people's will/haki if he's doing what they are asking for a la the initial gear 5 was when the entirety of onigashima was begging him to get up, and the flower capitol was inadvertently helping via the prayer lanterns

It seems like the drums are a frequency of energy and the robot is tuned to the radio station. Luffy is the transmitter while also being someone who can utilize others will/haki An entire kingdom powered by the hearfbeat of it's godking

[dark cedar]

That's an anime-only filler arc if you didn't know

[median fractal]

ik

[dark quail]

Shanks seems to be able to do it too, which is why gathering up ALLLLLL of the weaklings who then believe in him with their lives, he gets their haki added to his

[median fractal]

which reminds me that other enemies they have gone against havent been used and i wonder since usopp and noland and yassop all have lied then one of them could have set other stuff up but who knoes

[dark quail]

I think shanks is going to die but publicly and in a way that passes everyone's belief in him over to Luffy, doubling his believers in one action

[dark quail]

There's absolutely something to this, what with sora in the Germa comics , whichcould mean that Nika was based on someone real but being overblown or is a fabrication that fights the family of whoever Nika actually ended up being (like Sanji ended up doing)

I'm also reminded of usopp having to become his lie

And Saul for being a part of a destructive force then turning coat

[slender fulcrum]

Imagine one piece being a last issue of a comic book from the VC xD

[slender fulcrum]

yep the heartbeat sound , or at least the drums of liberation imitating Nika's heartbeat is what made that robot woke up 200 years ago. My bet is that bucaneer might have been in an higher population back then and by making a party honoring Nika they woke up that robot accidentaly.
In retaliation the WG erased most of them when they found out where they were hidden

[glacial frost]

So we know how the one piece story with luffy is a mirror of rogers story so what if when luffy becames king of the pirates he too will get a uncurbable disease but then chopper will figure out how to cure all illness like he said and he survives

[lone zealot]

thats a very cool theory

[dark apex]

Basic but good theory

[dark quail]

ok
here we go
had a lightbulb moment
still drawing lines

Shanks is Tyr
Luffy is Fenrir
Dragon is Loki (prince loki re elbaph)
Garp is Oden

during ragnarok fenrir eats the fucking sun
luffys dream might be that he wants to eat the sun (probably to take a bite out of) and likely will

When shanks saves luffy and loses his arm to a giant sea snake (maybe imu is jormungundr) its after luffy likely sealed his fate and ate the fruit, which could be the elven ribbon they end up using to tie up fenrir, or the strawhat, its woven straw, the ribbon was significant for being a subversion and use of magic to make something so frail be what ends up holding down the ever growing wolf

eve tree is yggdrasil

[dark quail]

loki has 4 main kids

a horse with like, 8 legs he made with the horse of a giant
and gave to his mother freyja, sleipnir

and three he had with a frost giantess
hel the half dead half living girl
fenrir the wolf
and jormungundr the world serpent

jormungundr becomes long enough to wrap around the equator of the planet, ends up killing thor with his poisonous blood during ragnarok but only because thor kills him by cutting him up so much

hel goes to the death world and rules it, changing its name to hel, Surtur the only entity that was here before there was anything, decides to move to hel when the gods of asgard start doing their thing and just kind of waits for ragnarok to happen

fenrir gets tied up by an elvish magic ribbon because every other chain they tried would brreak under the weight of the ever growing dog. Tyr was his best friend and tricked him into letting them put the ribbon on, tyr putting his arm in fenrirs mouth as collateral, tyr felt bad he was betraying his friend and gave his arm willingly as penitence

Fenrir kicks off Ragnarok, he swallows the sun in one bite, and turns to odin, who, being the allfather and having seen how it ends, merely steps into fenrirs mouth knowing it is inevitable

everyone dies but maybe four or five who crawl from the ashes, thors two sons included, who must both carry mjolnir at the same time for its weight

and the cycle starts anew

one of ymirs daughters is LAUFEY

who is mother of Loki

[tame mango]

So was the treasure that was stolen from Hachinosou confirmed to be the egg on Rogers’s ship? Or is that just speculation

I’m asking because I have a theory about the stolen treasure

[glacial frost]

the friends who we made along the way

[tame mango]

I knew it 🥲

[white canopy]

Thanks man, it's my theory "Energy Source of Giant Robot?" On reddit that you mentioned in the first part of this message.

[tame mango]

So, correct me if my theory is wrong in anyway, but what if the reason why Rocks went to Godvalley was to save a woman he loved. Maybe a wife or a sister, something like that. Could explain why Rogers found Shanks on Rocks ship, maybe it was a Game Of Thrones type of situation where the woman got pregnant by Figarland, and had the child, and in a last ditch effort to save the child, got Rocks to promise to take care of them

Probably hella wrong tbh but I thought I’d share, I don’t know anyone IRL whose really into one piece to share my theories with so I thought I’d share it with you guys

[keen tinsel]

... What'd Loki do to that horse

[dark quail]

unironically

he turned into a horse, led the horse away from asgard to keep its owner the giant who was in disguise from finishing the wall he said he would build (it was a whole bet)

and months later loki walks back, bipedal, with an 8 legged horse

handed the reins to odin and says

'we are never going to talk about this again'

'oh and its the fastest horse in existence'

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-thats-my-guy-point-gif-20331772

[ashen surge]

Hey I appreciate your enthusiasm here in theories but you paraphrasing Asgardian lore isn't really what this channel is supposed to be for.

On that note, the Red line is obviously Jormungundr. "snake soaked in blood" means the red line that goes around the world.

[kind cipher]

They say in the kuma flashback that the marines had stolen "the treasure of hachinosu". We don't know exactly what it is but it seemed like that was also the reason Roger was there

Can't post pictures here but they mention it on page one of chapter 1096

[fallow schooner]

hey guys have yall considered Brook having a mythical zoan type fruit? Binks Sake, which hinted towards Nika mentions bones and waving places and stuff goodbye (like laboon) hell the song contains brooks laughs

[viral flint]

nami and luffy get together when they find the one piece then they have tiki and she ate a df that made her go back in time and have children with oden

[fallow schooner]

oda confirmed that there wont be any relationships within the crew

so no.

[flat marsh]

yeah i wish SOMEONE WOULD LET MY BOY SANJI HAVE A WIFE THO

[fallow schooner]

pudding

since big mom isnt a problem now\

[flat marsh]

oh yes

[sand mortar]

big theory here, Big Mom is going to live, okay, now after she gets out of lava, she'll eat zunesha, and go to the west blue.

[chilly spade]

I think, Luffy will go back to defeat Big Mom like he told Katakuri, at the end, I think Katakuri, Branch, Pudding, and possibly some others from her crew will join the Straw Hat Grand Fleet under Katakuri

[untold lance]

i consider that promise already fulfilled i didnt take it to mean luffy had to personally throw the punch. I guess its unclear as long as bm fate is unclear

[chilly spade]

Either way, even if he doesn’t go back to fight bm I think Katakuri, Branch due to love for Katakuri and Pudding who’s split between Sanji, who was nice to her, and her family who’s bad to her, if they don’t go back to beat bm like Luffy said, then we’ll probably just hear what happened to her and that they left, maybe some others, and they will join grand fleet/ eventually run into straw hats again, and join fleet

[untold lance]

theyre potentially on a blackbeard collision course around pudding

[chilly spade]

There we go, a way to reunite, I thought ending of Whole Cale slightly different from other arcs, as she was still in control of wci afterword and people who were mistreated by her left behind in that situation rather than saved like the strawhats normally do

[strange hound]

Sun god Nika is a completely fictional character in the ancient comic strip of laughtale who travels around the world in a ship made of cloud through thousand seas liberating them,spreading laughter and joy

[brave yew]

You know... actually, that giant elephant Zunesha may shit out whole islands, so maybe Raftel was among those dumps 😏

"Zunesha - creating 1 Raftel at a time"

"no, Zunesha, don't raftel onto our island!"

on a more serious note though... where's zunesha getting its food from? Is the elephant a carnivore feeding off of the sea monsters? Would seem to be about the only way it could be, or pulling in masses of fish or plants growing around the sea with its trunk.

[loud nimbus]

That’s answered in an sbs. Zunesha apparently feeds on sky island apples that fall from the sky. And seaweed.

[brave yew]

wow... unexpectedly strange and roundabout of an explanation when simpler exist, but ok

ah seaweed, ok, nvm

[dark quail]

how you gonna tell me not to go into norse mythology and turn around and say, yup theres norse mythology in the samn damn post

what i was covering is related to what i think oda is drawing from

its all theory

the name Loki is a very significant character in the damn story

the yarn and thumbtacks im using are all about loki and his children

why wouldnt i go into norse lore if i think its significant

also i was asked to expand on something i brought up

oda is drawing from so many real life mythos, to not talk about them in the theory channel doesnt make any sense

is oda going to copy one for one? no, but is he heavily using themes from real mythos that can show us the shape of the story and what characters are which? absolutely

[alpine marsh]

@dark quail I think the issue is that you're not making a proper theory out of this information. You're just reciting information that exists in norse mythology

its cool to use material from norse mythology to aide a larger theory. But if the majority of what you're posting is just mentioning stuff from norse mythology

then its not exactly a fit for the channel

[dark quail]

this is the issue with the theory community

there shouldnt be a theory im coming to you with to sell you

theres interesting things that dont add up to anything yet, and where else am i going to posit these interesting things than in an open theory forum?

im not a youtube channel with a ten minute theory im trying to sell you on, im just showing something interesting im putting in my notes when it comes to crafting theories

besides no body has figured it out yet

so why would anyone be able to present a full 'theory' thats satisfying

its a matter of adding 'scientific information' to the scientific community not presenting a paper that proves youre right

[alpine marsh]

Ok but thats the intention of this channel

its not gonna become something it isnt

[dark quail]

iif someone has to have a complete full baked theory to post it this would be empty

my theory is then, if that needs ot be stated,

that dragon is loki

and we can use norse mythology to find out where other characters fit

[ashen surge]

Additionally what we strive for this channel to be is theories and analysis focused what we have already seen in the story. It’s not meant for guesswork based on something that doesn’t have evidence in the canon source material. You can refer to the pinned theories what we are going for here

[alpine marsh]

Discussion about a theory can stem from a theory, in the form of long drawn out discussion. But you cant just post random facts with vague referencial relevance to One piece.

#manga and #manga-serious still exist. This channel isnt intended to be popping 24/7.

Utilizing story information to present a larger theory, while maybe using norse mythology to AIDE that theory (but still largely using existing elements in the story), is what is preferred here.

[dark quail]

prince loki
shanks lost his arm like tyr
garps motif is a dog like fenrir
the large bloody snake is jormungundr
the tree is yggdrasil

[ashen surge]

How does the currently available chapters support this idea that Dragon is Loki? We already know he’s a giant who was supposed to get married to Lola

[dark quail]

hjes a prince of the gtiants

shanks is the captain and hes tiny

[alpine marsh]

thats not a theory, thats just the thematic inspiration.

[dark quail]

this is what im saying, if i have to come to you with a full baked theory, how am i going to get everyone input on it, is this not an open forum?

[alpine marsh]

Get input on it after you've baked the theory

this channel isnt for creating a theory

[ashen surge]

You can do it on #manga-serious or #manga

[alpine marsh]

its for discussing an existing one

[dark quail]

so i can theory craft in the sreriouschannel

[ashen surge]

Yes

[dark quail]

thats fucking ridiculous and doesnt make sense

but ok

[alpine marsh]

🙏

[lone zealot]

where is #theory-crafting

[rancid canopy]

Hello, whats are topic

[chilly spade]

Agree

[pure raven]

who up theorizing the florian triangle

i need theories... i need to know what ppl think of those things. im so obsessed

[maiden trail]

Have you guys ever played Halo 2 specifically the High Charity/great schism levels?

Well I feel that the World government will soon deal with their own great schism with SWORD and other honorable marines fighting against the more corrupt marines along with Cipher Pol and the Holy Knights

[elder sonnet]

!nevercook

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1021911533971849267/1133032786350047282/IMG_1715.png

[dark quail]

this the dumbest fucking bot

[graceful marsh]

The reason why Nami's boobs keep growing is because of Sanji. Sanji's the cook, he knows what nutrition is right for growth. He does it on purpose cuz he's a pervert

[slender fulcrum]

no need if Luffy become Pirate King.

[chilly spade]

Idk the way he said it seemed like he felt he had to beat her before he could become the pirate king, he’s said something like, of course I’m going to come back and beat her, I’m going to become king of the pirates, could be a personal thing that he wants to prove himself beating all the Yonko

[lone zealot]

he said it himself, “I will beat all the 4 yonko” although idk if this was something oda really meant

[night crag]

Devil fruits and the realm of the dead

Vegapunk introduced an idea that Devil fruit users are beings that exist in a “different dimension”. Seeing how Jay Garcia Saturn seem almost immune to normal attacks makes me think that he is somehow existing in another dimension and I believe that other dimension is the realm of the dead.

We have seen Luffy awakening his Gear 5 when being at the brink of death and resurrecting. The realm of the living and the realm of the dead are seemingly interconnected at moments and I think it ties into the essence of what Devil fruits really are.

The best way to describe it is that souls are being kept in the land of dead and they can in moments traverse realms at very specific times and moments. One of those places could be the grand trees like the Eve tree at Mariejoise and another could be the grand tree Adam which most likely is at Elbaf, and these trees are the origin of Devil fruit (Adam and Eve reference from the Bible).

Saturn summoning from a pentagram circle feels like he and the Gorosei and also Imu could have a direct connection to the lands of the Dead. Where normal Devil fruits could be souls passing from the lands of the dead into the living through the Adam and Eve trees as fruits, the Gorosei purely dead souls not from the lands of the living.

Devil fruit users are living beings with “dead souls” added to them so they are two souls living in one body. Awakening a fruit could also be seen as submitting and fully accepting the dead soul fully connected to your own soul through the brink of death.

I believe the key to defeating the Gorosei is to attack them from inside the Realm of the Dead. This also adds meaning to what Whitebeard said at the brink of death, that the One Piece treasure would turn the world “upside down”.

[warm cairn]

could it be that the one piece is like a portal between the worlds? and one piece will not end after they find the one piece but after they use it to defeat the gorosei?

[lone zealot]

the one piece is something of joyboy's, its an afro

[stable rock]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?! What about those shadow figures we saw before sky island that were as big as zunesha with wings?!?!

They aren’t sky people from a distance appearing to be larger. That’s already been confirmed.

That, Raijin island and the source of devil fruits are still one pieces biggest mysteries ever

[strange hound]

What I feel the one piece is, is it's a purely fictional comic strip with the title of laughtale whose main superhero(as excliptly mentioned by kuma in japnese and later bonny) is sun god Nika who travels the thousand seas bringing laughter,joy and liberation to everyone he meets...this strip was spread around the world by a certain traveller band who wanted to ship Binks brew through ages long gone who later pushing through centuries come to be known as pirates

[glacial frost]

i think the reason Shanks went to Wano is that he has a vivre card of Luffy. I mean it makes sense if you've put all your chips on someone then you'd want a way to monitor their progress and keep an eye on them. And when that card starts to burn, you're gonna rush over to wherever they are. And once it burned away they probably were on their way to retrieve the Nika Nika no Mi. In fact, we've seen Shanks appear just after Luffy was on the verge of death before too. Right after Luffy almost died to Magellan, Shanks appeared at Marineford. and when luffy almost died to kaido

[lone zealot]

shanks actually went to wano in search for blackbeard iirc

[glacial frost]

oh im not caught up in the manga

[lone zealot]

this is manga theories

[glacial frost]

Ik

I dont care about getting spoiled so why did shanks go to wano for blackbeard if he wasnt there

[lone zealot]

he thought blackbeard would go to wano to snatch some devil fruits

[glacial frost]

lmao what

[lone zealot]

law’s opop

[quick kindle]

ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN BE SUBREDDIT MOD

[pine saddle]

I have a theory about the giant straw hat I think that luffy went to laugh-tail, found a way to go back in time but you needed to have the nika-nika fruit to activate it so that straw hat Is luffy's in his giant form but from the past

[slender fulcrum]

Or that luffy went into the past and lost is straw hat who become an holy stuff that nations fought over and started the big war xD

[glacial frost]

Highly unlikely

[slender fulcrum]

I agree though it'll be too much

[jaunty plank]

does anyone else think dragon is wind logia

[glacial frost]

He has the chair paramecia

[ashen surge]

This isn’t the channel for jokes like that

[acoustic fern]

that would be underwhelming

It's probably gonna be a mythical zoan like the theories cause of his tatoos

[undone holly]

maybe the hat is made of same properties of the vivre cards?

[slender fulcrum]

Why does shanks need a vivre card to know where is luffy when Luffy was there for a whole week and all the newspaper claimed his victory over kaido ?
even greenbull went there to claim his head
Shanks was just looking for Teach next move cause he wants to prevent him from reaching laugh tales and put his hands on poneglyph transcription.

Shanks pondered for a moment and came to the conclusion that Luffy being the type of guy sharing his accomplishement, he would have given his copies of the poneglyph to Law and Kidd, thus making three potential target for BB, knowing he can't follow three crew at the same time, he decide instead to rush for laugh tale so he can prevent teach claiming the one piece, he probably kept track of Kidd move cause he got a beef with him to get his poneglyph and will try to outmove BB

[undone holly]

at no point did I say he needed it... I was just responding to a hypothesis mentioned in the answer where I commented about Shanks having a vivre card with Luffy... but about your comment, what I can analyze is that it makes sense for Luffy currently, but what about in the beginning?? If Shanks knew the importance of the fruit that Luffy has, what would be the best way to trace his whereabouts other than his hat being or having something based on a vivre card?

[faint peak]

My theory is that the Holy Knights know Divine Departure as well

[marble temple]

Anyone got an idea of what Luffy’s real dream is?

[faint peak]

Maybe his dream to reunite the whole world, and destroy the Red line. I saw a theory saying maybe Luffy will destroy fishman island because he wants all the fishmen to live on the surface, stopping discrimination.

[marble temple]

Great theory, my idea is he wants to liberate everyone and destroy the world government

[faint peak]

Oh I mean, that's not even a theory tbh, after all he is a pirate, and lives up to the name of the D.

D's are considered the enemies of the "gods", the "gods" in the OP world are considered the Celestial dragons

[marble temple]

What if he uses the ancient weapon/ robot to destroy the red line

[faint peak]

Saw a theory saying maybe he'll use G5'th to destroy it.

[marble temple]

That or some ancient weapon

[faint peak]

That's a good theory, I have another theory for you

You think Divine Departure originates from the Holy Knights?

[marble temple]

there’s no connection between em because we haven’t seen any of the “holy knights” use it

[faint peak]

I made a theory saying maybe the Holy Knights from the Void Century

But someone added on to my theory and said "maybe the organization is from the Void Century"

[marble temple]

Everyone from the void century was wiped out so I doubt it

[faint peak]

Maybe some things were passed down

[marble temple]

That includes joyboy and his crew

[faint peak]

Evidence about Joy Boy and his hypothetical crew still exist though

[golden island]

It can't be this as Luffy has a dream since he was a kid. He didn't even know about red line and what it is.

[faint peak]

True

[fluid sequoia]

it'll be something along the line of having a party with the world, maybe some twist to it, but the way he is able to achieve it will probably be the destruction of the red line

[crimson kiln]

whats th will of D

[lone zealot]

was joyboy a member of the D clan?

[crimson kiln]

prob

bcuz isnt joyboy a title, so it would make sense for his real name to have D in it.

[hardy trench]

film red promotion

[pure raven]

elbaf next island

[hollow kindle]

french president read one piece

[lone zealot]

there is a legit theory that zoro will die, if anyone wants more insight to it I’ll send the link to the video, 16 minutes long

[hot lava]

I got a small theory and I want opinions on it, does anyone else think it's possible luffys gonna lose one of his arms at the end? Like I feel like it would bring the series around back to the first chapter, u know what I mean??

[lone zealot]

can you elaborate

[hot lava]

Like because shanks lost an arm protecting Luffy, Luffy could lose an arm in the final arc protecting someone he cares about, so it could almost bring things full circle in a way, sorry if that doesn't help much, it's mostly prediction rather than theory I guess, lmao

[lone zealot]

one piece shippuden, i see what ur talking about

[pure raven]

Brook never died

[tiny hatch]

Idk about the arm but the hat 100% will be passed down

I could also see a possibility of Shanks dying by the end and the hat being placed on his grave. Cause maybe at the end of the series they no longer need to pass down wills.

[pine saddle]

do you rily think that he would loss it

[inland cobalt]

He might leave the hat but the passing of wills is 1000% continuing since it’s basically only a good thing

[pallid atlas]

Guys send me a theory

guys send me a theory that is gonna go to twitter

[lone zealot]

he physically died

[lone zealot]

@modest skiff is posting links to youtube videos here prohibited, ofc not some random video, its a theory

[slender fulcrum]

Well the ancient joy boy did lost it for sure xD

Anyway as far as I analysed stuff :
The ancient kingdom did blew the world and made the water rise

Why ? Would you say ?

1- Because the current world that exists seems to have been perfectly made to allow one to reach laugh tale that has been hidden somehow, the whole world as been set up to make a giant long line to follow to reach the truth.
The WG would never have done that , it makes no sense

2 - the ancient weapon would have been used for that , then hidden from the WG.
Somehow Imu uncovered one ( uranus ? ) and wanted to test it - thus they never used it before and require specific fuel to make it work somehow - dismissing the fact that its been intensively used by them back then

[inland cobalt]

Following the grandline doesn’t lead you anywhere laughtale isn’t at the end of the grandline lodestar is which just says find the poneglyphs

[ashen surge]

Time to give a friendly reminder that this channel is meant for long, well thought, QUALITY theories. Not idle chit chat who beats who and predicting that one character has to die soon.

[slender fulcrum]

Well lets sums up :

You have Laugh Tale, an island nobody know where it is, who's reveal could shake the world.

1- To reach Laugh Tale, you have to go to the totality of Grandline.
2- Grandline is surrounded by calm belt, who is almost un-sailable due to its sea king population ( and we know sea king are " allied " of the Ancient Kindgom somehow )
3- The only access to the Grandline, through four seas, is to go through reverse mountain
4- Poneglyph have been scattered on all the road to the end of grand line on various location

If its not by design, It would be really weird.
Now that we know that, somehow, someone from the void century predicted everything, it's almost likely that it was the same one behind all of this " reshaping " the world to safeguard the knowledge to go to laugh tale and topple the World Government.
So someone who predicted the future almost drew a direct map to the ultimate " treasure " by reshaping the sea into a giant line that, conveniently, start with a X on the map ( reverse mountain ) and end with the X on the map ( reverse mountain ) , which means that it could be likely that Laugh tale is either far above reverse mountain or under it - but that's another topic -

So this " someone " used the ancient weapon to reshape everything and then proceed to hid them somewhere.
It can't be Imu since Imu doesnt know about laugh tale location and would never have done such a thing. ( as far as we know !! )

[inland cobalt]

you don't have to go the totality of the grandline though, literally every known road poneglyph is in the new world not paradise and they can be transported

Theoretically you don’t even need to enter the grandline to find laughtale you only need the 4 coordinates from the road poneglyphs

[tiny hatch]

my thought process is that if the world government is gone and people are able to live more freely by the end of it, passing on wills may not be as necessary if the end is there

[tiny hatch]

heck if you even want to be technical you only need 3, it would take ages but if you sail on the triangle the 3 form you'd eventually find the correct island. But I assume there is some kind of magical thing that requires all 4 texts. Or even perhaps the road poneglyphs aren't as simple as each one being a different location, but rather all 4 locations are only revealed if you have all 4 texts combined, where some information is missing from each one, like maybe its 4 coordinates for each location and each one only has 1 of the 4 each.

[inland cobalt]

Yeah but the inheriting of wills is basically exclusively good

[marble temple]

Buggy D goat will find the one piece

[icy cypress]

Go. D .Xebec .Buggy

[ashen oracle]

technically possible, maybe buggy will throw it away because he doesn't realise it

or maybe that is the final battle because maybe the one piece can somehow enchance power and buggy becomes all powerful

[lone zealot]

joyboy is known for making people laugh

the one piece is something that also makes people laugh while being some ridiculous treasure

this doesnt add up but im thinking its an afro of the late joyboy

[undone bone]

hey everyone, i have a question. anyone have any idea why Saturn needed vegapunk? since they’re both scientists?

[frozen birch]

Vegapunk was a far better scientist than Saturn

A lot of modern advancements were from VP’s work.

[undone bone]

true but something still feels missing idk

[cyan widget]

VP would also be working almost exclusively for the WG aside from whatever he built on/for Egghead

[undone bone]

saturn has been alive since before the void century and he’s been working as a scientist. vegapunk was born later. vegapunk ate the brain brain fruit. why didn’t saturn think of killing vegapunk and eating that fruit to optimize his inventions?

[cyan widget]

So he recruited the smartest engineer/scientist in the world to basically be a one man R&D team

[undone bone]

i see

[pallid atlas]

yo bro can you send me your whole theory

[pine saddle]

it was my theory (I have a theory about the giant straw hat I think that luffy went to laugh-tail, found a way to go back in time but you needed to have the nika-nika fruit to activate it so that straw hat Is luffy's in his giant form but from the past)

[pallid atlas]

dm

[pure raven]

Theory I was cooking:

Ace was supposed to be Joyboy. Roger knew where the journey would begin as well as the future after reaching Laugh Tale. Roger had Ace to carry on his will and to finish what the first Joyboy started.
Shortly after Dragon learns of the history and future from a member of Rogers crew. Dragon has his own kid in Luffy who will be on the island at the appropriate time for the Nika fruit to arrive with Shanks. Dragon might have even been the person to inform Shanks of the importance of the Nika fruit.
Both Ace and Luffy are on the island, both are even with outlaw organizations, and both have leanings towards pirates. Ace just ended up at the wrong party and missed his chance to be Joyboy.

[pine saddle]

i don't think that's possible because zoan fruits have a will of there on

[pure raven]

I don't see how that would conflict with this

[pine saddle]

Zoan devil, fruits, especially mythical Zoans, are able to choose who wields them because they have a will of their own

[pure raven]

Yeahhhhh I think you are giving them a little too much agency and are miss reading the theory. Zoans get sold, bought, or stolen often throughout the story, while we havent seen a mythic have this happen yet, we have zero evidence that they have absolute control. Guiding or nudging things is more likely. Second, the theory is that Ace was supposed to be Joyboy by Rogers intentions, nothing is stated about the fruits intentions or will. This is about Roger and Dragons attempts to guide the future through the current generation.

[pine saddle]

even if thay can just nudge the future ace would neve be able to awaken it thus he had no shans to became joy boy

[pure raven]

The convergence of events that leads to Joyboy freeing the world is happening NOW, the Nika fruit doesn't have much of an option lol

[pine saddle]

They are happening because the Nike fruit decided that luffy was worthy to awaken it, not because the nika fruit Has no power the Nike fruit wanted luffy to use it. Because luffy is the perfect match. If it was someone else who had the nika fruit, ,if it was anyone else than It would just be the rubber fruit. But because he was so compatible with it he was able to awaken it

[pure raven]

NGL, nice to read notes. But the sentence structure is hard to read and so is the spelling. Thx for the notes, Ima hop back to Manga chat.

[slender fulcrum]

it's more than that. The awakening of the fruit happen when the one wearing it become the very aspect , mentally and physically, of its power.
Dolflamingo wasn't really born manipulative, even if he was an a**, but consuming his fruit made him become manipulative, both over people and political, influencing stuff around him and in the shaodw, weaving social threads everywhere, thus, he became the very personification of his fruit and that's how he awakened it.

That's the " synchronization between the fruit and the mind of the user " kaido talked about.

It's the same about Luffy. He became the " warrior of liberation and freedom " the sun god Nika, by fighting for freedom and against tyranny, in the climax of wano.

On the opposite side, you have people that act the very opposite of their fruit or who are not sync at all so who will never awaken it.
I'm not sure what buggy should do or behave to awaken his fruit tbh.

And that also explain why logia can't awaken ( as far as we know )

[stone sapphire]

The reason punk Hazard became a 2 element island wasnt because akainu and kuzan awakened their fruits?

[slender fulcrum]

Its headcanon, but I guess that having an intense usage of Magma and Ice can completely override current island climate

[dense sail]

i think "loki" is a title, like the "god" in skypiea, so the next loki is going to be ussop. he's the god of lies after all

[lone zealot]

no its a name

"Prince Loki"

[dreamy hull]

We seen Kaido DF being almost eaten by Ivankof and originally meant for celestial dragons

[west crest]

[marble temple]

Who’s the next crew member or is the crew complete

[heavy dust]

This fails what Roger told Garp as he asked him to care for his child. A child should not be punished for his father's crimes, he didn't want his child to be a participant of his work/legacy. So that's not possible that Roger planned his child to take the treasure. 2nd Dragon became revolutionary for another reason and his will solidified when he saw the Ohara massacre. Luffy wasn't planned or anything like that. Dragon has been working against the government for a whole another reason, Revolution. To be done away with a government that thinks of people as disposable or insects.

[heavy dust]

Vivi could be a potential - don't see Kuma/Bonney/Vegapunk joining, Vivi has a connection to the first 20 rulers and she looks like Queen Lili to Imu so there's that angle as well, she might have some role at the last stage. Yamato or Momosuke will join as Land of Wano probably a part of Luffy's grand fleet.

[pearl tusk]

If kuma is sacrificed in next few chapters i dont see how bonney doesnt join.

[last kiln]

I think Vivi has far less reason to join after Cobra’s death. She is dedicated to her people, and I can’t imagine she would abdicate the throne just to join the straw hats. I would put my bets on Bonney right now, though I could also see her just leaving with a pacifista chaperone since she has that command authority now.

[eager frost]

Bonney have a crew to rescue and with Kuma army she finally have a chance. they will be closest thing she has to a family once Kuma dies.

[pearl tusk]

Yea vivi has other fish to fry. Bonney on the other hand…following nika’s lead makes total sense

Her crew prolly gonna make their way back home

[eager frost]

they got caught. doubt they can escape on their own unless Oda add them as potential escapees if/when there is another prison break

[pearl tusk]

I just dont see bonney saying gee nika id love to travel with you and battle evil government and find one piece but i gotta rescue the handful of unnamed goobers i started with

[eager frost]

u must be insane. she is a 12 yo kid that went looking for her dad with all the ppl she grew up with. not to mention she was only looking for Nika because of Kuma. at no point she had the dream of starting a war with WG 💀

[pearl tusk]

She wants revenge for what happened to kuma yo. Her age is idk wanna say irrelevent but she’s clearly not a normal 12 y/o just like luffy isnt normal for his age

[dreamy hull]

If bonney join someone would most likely be the revolutionaries at this point

[pearl tusk]

Agreed if not SH’s shes gonna try to follow her moms footsteps

[slender fulcrum]

I'm not sure celestial dragon are eating devil's fruit outside the gurusei, I'd guess they'd be more using them on their slave for fun purpose ( like Boa's )

[dreamy hull]

I would bet on God's Knights eating DFs

[slender fulcrum]

maybe for the fighters yeah, I dont see someone like Charlos eating one for example

[dreamy hull]

especially considering at least one of them in the flashback looked something like ghost rider/brook

yeah commoneers got no use
They can give them to the family they represent though if they got any wanting to become a God's Knight probably