manga-theories

[elder sonnet]

A little late and basic theory, but is it fair to assume that the reason why Kizaru held back or look threaten by Beckman is because Beckman possess advanced observation Haki + coating his bullets with Haki would make Kizaru agility and speed be at a disadvantage?

I know a lot of people says that he was just playing dumb at the time but after seeing how advanced observation Haki works during Luffy vs Katakuri makes me think that Beckman possesses both observation and armored Haki. That would make him worthy of being Shanks #2

[balmy willow]

I mean he still attacked Law's ship right after with no intervention or concern. It's pretty clear to me it's still sarcasm or moderate surprise at seeing another Emperor get involved

[pure raven]

Imu having the devil devil fruit. “The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he did not exist.” This would make sense since he’s in the shadows not showing himself. Another thing would be the arrow he shoots which looks similar to a devils tail. He would hold the key as to why devil fruits exist in the first place. We’ve seen pretty much anything become a devil fruit, we haven’t seen someone have a devil devil fruit (robins doesn’t count, it’s devil fruit awakening would be something else if robin wasn’t its holder)

[noble copper]

Now that we know Saint Jaygarcia Saturn ate the ox ox fruit model ushi-oni, I wonder if anyone has any theories on what then the other gorosei might have eaten? Other yokai?

[sullen mango]

definitely other yokai

[olive locust]

Theory for Roger's expedition.

-Roger started his 1st Voyage with Rayleigh in Grand Line.

-Maybe Xebec is the first to discover the void century for some reason, without going to laughtale. Roger was still at lodestar this time.

-Xebec might believed he is the "Joyboy". He has also the charisma of making enemies into allies (His crew are all crazy though)

-During battle at God's Valley, Xebec told Roger his mission: To throw out the one sits on the throne, in order to become the "The King of the World". Roger resisted maybe because Xebec doesn't care about casualties like slaves.

-All out war between Rocks Pirates vs. Roger, Garp and Holy Knights (Elite Celestials including Figarland)

-Xebec defeated, Roger still wonders Xebec words about "Joyboy".

-Roger got an incurable fatal illness, and started his final voyage through Grand Line.

-Discovered the Egg, clashed against Shiki.

-Reached Laugh Tale, learned void century. Unlike Xebec, Roger accepted he's not the "Joyboy" due to the timeline of prophecy and he doesn't have enough time to live due to his illness. Disbanded his crew to help the future "Joyboy" prepare its way. Started the Great Pirate Era to help the chosen one reach the laugh tale in the right time, and stop anybody from reaching it easily.

[dull pecan]

i have a small theory, what if the 5 elder stars don't have devil fruits, and that's just their real forms because saint saturn's introduction didn't list off a devil fruit of any sort and the way he appeared was odd as well, with the summoning circle almost as though he's some sort of real demon

[arctic linden]

Thought of this
Maybe the base hito hito fruit grants adaptability to whoever eats it.
I mean humans are known for being adaptable ye? Other than being intelligent or having high endurance
It fits how chopper has different forms, rumble ball didn’t grant the forms, it gave access to them, it would explain how chopper can now use the different forms other than the big wendigo one without rumble ball.
Because he trained to use them without using rumble ball.

We know choppers wendigo form isn’t awakened cuz it doesn’t have the signature clouds awakened zoans have so chopper still has the possibility of another form.
Imagine if the awakened hito hito fruit gave even more adaptability, combining all the forms into one and amping it up by ALOT

Also I don’t think the hito hito fruit would be useless if a human ate it, it would also grant them the different forms chopper has, essentially making the person super adaptable.
Need a speed? They can do it
Strength? They can do it
Etc etc

[drowsy rover]

I believe something like this but instead they trade their souls with devils and the devil takes their body as vevapunk mentioned saint saturn and he responded with in the flesh and also the whole transformation was differnet

[arctic linden]

Like instead of the devils inhabiting fruits
The devils inhabited the elders directly?

[drowsy rover]

yea, he also didnt seem to feel effected from getting stabbed probably his power or his carelessness in the vessel

[arctic linden]

That seems neat

[harsh burrow]

Saturns devil fruit is the mythogical zoan human human fruit model Satan perchance?

[slim seal]

Seems to be the ushi oni from japanese folklore

[smoky basin]

Theory:
All of the Gorosei + Imu are originally evil yokai that ate the Human fruit.
Copies are already possible and zoans seems to be the easiest ones to do.
And they have info on stuff from the void century and the ancient kingdom which are, from what we've seen, scientifically advanced

[harsh burrow]

Sanji and Zoro will team up against kizaru mark my words

[cobalt karma]

how tf we gonna win againts that

[noble copper]

Based off this guy by the look of it

[harsh burrow]

Silly ol looking lil silly little guy

[noble copper]

In Japanese folklore anyone who sees it will become horribly ill explaining why low ranking marines aren’t allowed to look at him (higher rankings probably have haki to counter this affect and also low rankings would be more likely to spread info about it)

[vapid pollen]

what is it called?

[noble copper]

Ushi-oni

[vapid pollen]

tyty

[hallow bear]

So if he is a human and that's his hybrid/beast form then it'll be the spider spider fruit model ushi-oni?

[inland cobalt]

Or demon demon fruit model Ushi oni

[oblique isle]

Akuma no mi Akuma akuma no mi model Ushin oni

[velvet gale]

so pretty much rn the entire world is in chaos. admiral goes down. gorosei literally about to throw hands. cp0 vegapunk and a yonko all on one island

[pure raven]

Come on now

Is it now also gonna be that luffy conveniently is at his limit with gear 5
Whenever it fits the plot???

[gleaming crest]

when he defeated kaido it was pretty good timing to have gear 5 up, or idk what you're asking

[pure raven]

Luffy with his ,,,,,,endurance"""""
Against kaido we see he just has to start his heart up
Now they are in a dangerous position and need to gtfo
But nope
He just at his limit, why?
Just because

[hallow bear]

Thats how they always work in anime/manga though seen as its near impossible to gauge time

[lunar imp]

what are the zoan df of other 4 elders

[fallow bobcat]

#manga-theories message

Cementing my theory that Mercury has the Baku fruit

[inland cobalt]

Yeah I think the sword guy is mikaboshi aswell and I wouldn’t be surprised if birdlike one is the Minokawa

[tender parrot]

so we think Saturn isn't using a devil fruit but rather he's like the actual one of the devils himself? and maybe they created the fruits

[umbral summit]

i think Devil fruits were created to fight against the Gorusei

[cold grove]

With 1094 I think devil fruits were named originally based on the Gorosei's fruit, they are more "devil" than the others (being kind of summoned by a pentagram)

[true path]

What if he was powered by Imu? Imu has dark shadow magic powers fruit

[tired goblet]

I guess blackbeard will come and take Saturn's devil fruit , shiitt .. their ship is also waiting outside Egghead , this will be crazy

[marble aurora]

Magic vs Technology comes to mind.

[wild widget]

Oh I like this theory. Adds a twist and gives BB crew more notoriety

[tired goblet]

blackbeard or some of his crew will 100% appear in the next chapters, ODA didnt show their ship for no reason, there has to be a great twist to it 😄 damn.. cannot wait for the next chapters

[open barn]

hello

I couldn't sleep after the one piece chapter and I came to this conclusion after a search and with the images that they showed us with sabo and this chapter

[lunar imp]

im curious about the mythical zoans of imu and the other 4 elders

[open barn]

Zhu fruit which Japanese religion - St. Ethanbaron V. Nasujurou
Behemoth Bible Fruit - St. Sheperd Juu Peter
Egyptian Ptah Bull Fruit - St. Topman Warcury
Jotun fruit -utgard - nordica - St. Marcus Mars
Athena or arachne fruit - Greek - St. Jaygarcia Saturn

I'm not sure about the users but I'm convinced of the rest.

[lunar imp]

it is almost confirm that saturn has ushi oni fruit

[open barn]

oh that makes sense

If it is pure Japanese mythology, it could be Umibōzu, one of the fruits, another of them Suzaku.

[lunar imp]

thats a great one. i think umibozu might be imu df and sazaku is df of one of the elders.

[lunar imp]

dmnnnn that is a good one

[misty abyss]

It would also fit Imu's look, so that would 100% be Imu's fruit

[lunar imp]

fr, even the other sazaku matches the fig. of one of the gorosei

[past jackal]

Saturn is gonna forgive boney and tap that ass

[hallow epoch]

That's an old theory

[tardy void]

good theory

[silk vessel]

Hey, is this the only theory chat?

Has anyone seen any good “Will of D” theories?

I want to take a shot at theorizing but I’m pretty new to One Piece

[inland cobalt]

My pet theory is the D varies between an individual there’s not one meaning but many which is why so many different concepts fit so well.

[gaunt zenith]

D = Dreams?

[inland cobalt]

Luffy might be Dawn
Law could be death
Blackbeard=darkness or dreams etc

[silk vessel]

I’ve been working on the idea that “D” means Demon but so far that can only apply to Buggy. Have you seen the Crossguild symbol theory?

[inland cobalt]

I’d say devil fits way better than demon with the terminology and is basically interchangeable meaning wise

[atomic bough]

sorry for my bad grammar in advance 🙂

Hello! im kind new to one piece and after reading the latest spoilers from chapter 1094 i tried to piece together a theory about the ancient kingdom in one piece and what happened. I would like to also help me piece together more things or disprove my theory. so here is my theory.

When i read the spoilers for ch. 1094 i wanted to search more about yokai(that bassically saturn is based of). So by searching "what is yokai" it came this "Yokai are supernatural, often shape-shifting beings which find their origins in Japanese folklore. They are commonly characterized as beings who come from nature and interfere in the human world. Their intent can be anything from malevolent to mischievous to playful."

So keep mischievous and shape-shifting in your mind.

Also by searching the term "yurei" also came up. By searching again "what is yurei" it came this: "If the person dies, however, in a sudden or violent manner such as murder or suicide, if the proper rites have not been performed, or if they are influenced by powerful emotions such as a desire for revenge, love, jealousy, hatred or sorrow, the reikon is believed to transform into a yūrei which can then bridge the gap back to the physical world. The emotion or thought need not be particularly strong or driven. Even innocuous thoughts can cause death to become disturbed. Once a thought enters the mind of a dying person, their yūrei will come back to complete the action last thought of before returning to the cycle of reincarnation.

The yūrei then exists on Earth until it can be laid to rest, either by performing the missing rituals or resolving the emotional conflict that still ties it to the physical plane. If the rituals are not completed or the conflict left unresolved, the yūrei will persist in its haunting."

Then its when i thought... what if devil fruits are the souls of people that died tragically and have a grundge in a people or a group of people ?

what if this people was all the residents of ancient kingdom that was betrade or dissived by the yokais??

So... To begin with... I believed that all the people that lived in the Ancient Kingdom was practicing Tao or also called Dao and was trying to reach mind assendace and inner peace. Also in theire society they lived some yokai that try to decieve them. These yokai was the gorosei. They tried to decieved them but they fail and then with an external force( maybe imu) they finally manage to destroy the island using a weapon(maybe the one we seen used by Imu)

I believed by the use of this weapon the island sinked. The people that died held a grudge to the yokai and imu thus their soul became the devil fruits.
Also some of them survived and became what we know now as the D. clan. ( D coming from Dao or Daoist)

I'm still trying to put more in this theory and trying to explain more of the things that we know. i dont know much about religion or japanese and chinese folklore. Thats why im asking you to piece this theory together

also is Tao(or dao) connected to budhism or wukong( which i belive strongly that luffy connects to that story)

i would like to here more from you!

[atomic bough]

also i believe that sasaint saturn hadnt eat any devil fruit... Instead is somekind of a devil fruit himself

[silk vessel]

I’ve been looking into the connection between Buggy and the Demon Agares. Agares is a demon that looks like an old man riding a crocodile with a hawk on his fist known for doing things like granting royal titles. The cross guild is comprised of Buggy, Crocodile, and Hawkeye with Buggy’s face heavily resembling Agares’ demon seal. I think it’s likely he’s going to grant Luffy the title of pirate king and that his name is actually Buggy D. Crown as he’d be crowning Luffy.

So far I haven’t found any connections between other characters and demons, but I’m still trying. Thoughts?

[mellow silo]

I like the idea that the elders are the planets/moons that have been fed devilfruits hence their aged appearance and power, and why they no longer appear in the sky

[stone dirge]

I think the elders and imu are devil themselves

[real sail]

i just realised that devil fruits r created by dreams and almost every pirates dream is to find the one piece so what if the one piece is an overpowered devil fruit?

[gaunt zenith]

I would not surprised if the OP is something trivial or something only Joyboy can use

[pearl tusk]

Or it’s a creature/plant

I just mentioned this in other channel but what if gorosei powers are from something other then devil fruit. If devil fruits come from dreams - theirs come from nightmares.

[cyan smelt]

I like where you were heading with this. I feel the Five Elders and Imu Sama have a relation somewhat like Vegapunk and his 6 satellites. The probability of the Gorosei making a deal with the real devil in exchange for these 'yokai' type powers you said. They probably did this to fight against Nika as Saturn felt bad nostalgia upon seeing Nika again in person

Also, there is a massive mechanism to the powers of Imu and the Five Elders and it's related to the MAGIC CIRCLE

[deep iron]

Imu is umi bozu from japanese folklore.
Imu = umi backwards

[inland cobalt]

Sounds interesting but devil and demon are so interchangeable and the very prevalent nature of DEVIL fruits make it just so so more likely to be Devil than demon.

[outer flax]

Had anyone considered the colors of the flame cloud designs on awakened zoan df users? Cuz Luffy and Yamatos clouds are white and they are considered the good guys while people like lucci and saturn have black cloud effects?

[solar hedge]

I noticed Saturn specifically said he hadn't surfaced in a while. I'm wondering if that means the gorosei have true bodies deep below the surface that only emerge via the portals when needed. Unless this meant more just "boy howdy haven't had to whip this out in a while"

[muted valley]

pretty sure it ment just hasnt gone down from marijoise

[solar hedge]

Yeah that'd make a lot more sense.

[muted valley]

however your idea might be more a thing for a later concept. Like it isnt too far fetched for something to be like that.

[solar hedge]

It'll stay cooking in the back of my mind at this point until it gets otherwise disproven lol

[plush canyon]

What are yalls thoughts on the magic summoning circle? It, the reveal of the gorosei with imu, paired with the vegapunks in this arc have me thinking the gorosei are just facets of a singular power

[outer flax]

All i can think is that its beyond a devil fruit

[plush canyon]

It definitely feels like another level of power, the way ALL the big hitters immediately reacted was pretty telling. I just want to see how it separates from the powers we have seen so far (an easy example would him moving through water effortlessly or etc)

[turbid trail]

Maybe it means the devil inside the fruit has taken over Saturns personality, in the same way the jaguar has taken over more of lucci

[craggy vine]

It might be a mythic zoan thing like marco having a partial transformation or orochi having nine lives? Only thing is the 5 motif linking it to the five elders.

[oblique isle]

I believe this is some how the difference between a mythical. Maybe the elders are in a class more.like ancient zoans that are another sub class like demons zoan?maybe oni? Could be false or a different kinda awakening.

[spice path]

Sabo will be the final enemy of one piece and fight luffy 1v1

Theory: when sabo inevitably meets imu imu will manipulate sabo and sabo will inherit imu's will and have to fight luffy

Sabo is a mispelled form of "Sadboy" and will fight Luffy "Joyboy"

also - given that in 1094 saturn calls luffy "nika" that shows how old saturn probably is (since void century i assume)

[pearl tusk]

U dont think maybe gorosei are aware of history and know of nika? Immediately assume they are hundreds of years old? Occams razor

[spice path]

well ig my argument is moreso that everyone else after knowing his name calls him luffy or even joyboy; him specifically calling him nika is interesting to me

Gorosei theory:

As is floatd on reddit a lot recently, Saturn is probably a yokai (demon) that has the power to drain people's souls with eyesight. The ancient kingdom found out the truth about the world and the existence of demons/devils, and they fought the world government who were lead by those devils by creating technology. eventually they lost, but their dreams of defeating the devils manifeste themselves as the devil fruits, in the hopes that future generations would be able to defeat them. This also explains why the SUN god nika scared the yokai bc demons dont like sunlight. Also, the 5 gorosei represent the 5 stars of a pentagram with imu ultimately being the head honco or satan sorta shit. I have another theory as well that yokai live in the sea - remember saturn saying he hasnt "come to the s urface" in a while ... devil fruit users are afraid of sea bc that's the yokai's territory

another theory: remember how in the summoning circle for saturn it says "5"? That means he's the weakest of the 5 elders. this also makes sense because imu means "0" in japanese (or mu does, idk) so hes the strongest

Frankly with this chapter it seems like we arent in the final saga but half way through the story - super interested to see how they werap it up in one saga

[wary nymph]

theory: We are in the final saga and seeing the awakened form of Saturn only symbolizes that. we are finally getting a true grasp of the power the world holds, and it feels almost evil, to the point where it clearly represents the end game. Similar as to how in many religions seeing devils or angels on earth represents the end of times, it perfectly parallels saturns statement of “it has been a long time since I have come down below.” It represents the end

[spice path]

ya i just find it hard to believe luffy can defeat all 5 gorosei and imu in one saga ... given that saturn is the weakest of the 5 especialy

[wary nymph]

I completely understand. However, the Four Emperors Saga started in Zou and ended in Wano from 802-1057

[spice path]

yeah those are emperors but luffy only defeated 1 by himself and this time there are 6 literal demons

[humble thicket]

are any of them zoro's "flavor"?

[wary nymph]

If we look at all the power houses of the OP world we have
WG (?): Imu + Gorosei, God Knights
Pirates (?): Luffy+Blackbeard+ Shanks?+Mihawk
Marines (?): Akainu? Garp, Kizaru, Kuzan, Coby (probably)
I don’t see luffy defeating Saturn in egghead the same way he didn’t defeat big mom in whole cake. Eventually Saturn will be defeated by other characters, along with the four other Gorosei. And Joyboy will defeat Imu, with the sun overpowering the shadow that is 800 years. Stunnashadez, there is one gorosei member who we speculate owns kitetsu the second, they might also have a black blade and could be far stronger than mihawk

[wary nymph]

^^

[inland cobalt]

why is saturn the weakest of the 5 ? we literally know nothing about them

[spice path]

the summoning circle haivng the number 5 in it + usually weakest is introduced first in animanga

[inland cobalt]

5=5 Elders

[wary nymph]

that is also only a theory. One piece strength in characters seen grows, Saturn might be the peak right now but we can expect that peak to grow with every single addition of a new gorosei member. Oda patterns

[pearl tusk]

No , saturn is present because he’s the gorosei responsible for science. And we are at vegapunks island. Who was the head scientist of the wg. 0 indication of power.

[inland cobalt]

that's not really always true

[pearl tusk]

Yea disagree. Roger has been shown throughout entire series of being the “peak”

[inland cobalt]

For example would you call Aokiji the weakest admiral or mihawk the weakest warlord shanks weakest emperor ?

[wary nymph]

He has been shown as being King of the Pirates, but even roger after reading the history of the world remarked “I was too early”, he didn’t have the power to take them down.

As for Saturn being science, Oda made it all, he decided Saturn was science and he could have also decided he was the weakest

[inland cobalt]

That's just all speculation we literally have no idea what being too early meant lol

[pearl tusk]

Sure but we have no evidence to suggest he’s weakest. Him being first to be shown to us is not proof of that.

[wary nymph]

It’s odas patterns

[outer flax]

I was thinking the murderous nature of lucci and the superiority complex of saturn(like all celestial dragons) cause the black clouds

[inland cobalt]

but it isn't really a definitive pattern in the slightest most of the time they end up being roughly comparable strengths

[wary nymph]

You’re right, however it is unlikely that he is the strongest. It would be likelier the strongest goroseis awakening has yet to be revealed. Oda might be doing this for additional effect as well

Are there any prevalent theories as to why the wg has not wanted to or has not been able to claim or the poneglyphs for themself. If they find the four red ones, they essentially gain power forever

[pearl tusk]

My theory is only Imu knows the true ancient history. Gorosei have some information but not all. So the WG’s main objective has never been related to the poneglyphs or stopping nika etc at least in recent history

[mellow shore]

well i imagine since they've banned the research of them/ even killed some of the only people who could read them there wouldn't be much point + if the wg starts making a big fuss about them, people would start questioning things which is the opposite of what they want. Not to mention some of the locations they're in it really would just be a whole lot of trouble for them and since they're so scattered + almost everyone can't read them, it's probs for the best they just leave them where they are. And if you considers how many yonko have a bunch then yeah.
And it's most likely imu + gorosi already know about the history + very specific pirates (roger's crew which are either dead/ in hiding nor making a fuss about what they learned)

[magic echo]

Im late to the party but im like 95% confident that Imu ate the Umibozu mythical demon zoan devil fruit.

I’m not sure how powerful these water yokai even are, but the fact that they deal with water is interesting.

I believe there is a translation of Imu that means, wet, rain, or water.
Also “Imu- umIBozu.

And now since we know Saturns silhouette was accurate then Umibozu stonks up ⬆️

[swift nacelle]

So basically the gorosei got 5 zoan fruits that like zoans sometimes do have chosen to stay with the 5 strongest families for world domination.
It has been stated that zoans can take over the user's mind so in reality the 5 elders are the DFs in control of the world (6 with imu). The dfs are making all the decisions and keep them alive for unnaturally long spans (zoan increased healing).
Nika is their natural enemy that tries to stop them from keeping the world under their thumb

[magic echo]

I have a similar theory, due to Chekhov’s gun we know that Op Op no mi can make people immortal.

We also know that Oda loves his symbolism and foreshadowing.

My current theory is that Imu and the Gorrosei have a satellite system similar to Vegapunk (probably where Vegapunk himself got the idea)

Imu had someone use the eternal youth surgery on them before the void century.
They then gathered their satellites and then linked themselves to the gorrosei making all 6 of them immortal.

I do like your idea of extremely powerful zoans taking over their psyche though.

[slim seal]

I don't think vegapunk would be allowed to know that imu exists

[magic echo]

I agree, but he has guaranteed met saturn (Saturn confirmed they had a relationship) and he’s probably met the other Gorrosei.

They never leave their guided castle on the redline and if you’ve met one of them you’ve probably met all of them considering they almost never leave the room with the green couch.

We’ve only seen then in two other spots I think and they were still all together. One which was when they bombed Robins home island and they were somewhere on the redline next too a waterfall.

[slim seal]

I wouldn't put it past him to just coincidentally come up with the same satellite concept on his own. Maybe he even has his own theories about someone giving orders to the gorosei

[fickle scroll]

I think only the elders are supposed to know Imu exists

[lilac aspen]

And the god knights cuz no way imu has only 5 servants the god knights know about him and aid him like his own private army of very stong fighter of wg

[fickle scroll]

That would be batshit crazy , I could see it

[magic echo]

I still think imu is a woman, i’d bet 1k

[fickle scroll]

I would love that

[jagged yoke]

Are there any theories regarding the potential folklore regarding the remaining elders?

[distant slate]

Long armed + long leg tribe are both very likely from the same original species.

Similar to devilfruits + germa, they altered their lineage factor, just during the void century.

Soooo, they likely have records of "demon kings" to be able to summon.

Like Satan, which is spelt in the exact same way as saturn.

サタン = Satan
サターン = Saturn.

Holy shit... Saturn could just be Satan

[drowsy rover]

idk if this is true but I think salt kills devils and holy water which is prob a reason why devil fruits users cant swim

[rapid carbon]

Anyone else think Saturn isn’t a zoan ? Like it might be a different thing all together .

[fickle scroll]

i think hes a mythical zoan

[tiny hatch]

If you think he is a zoan look up the 'Demon horned orb weaver" (Warning its a spider and a nightmare fuel one)

oh thats way better than these (warning spiders)

could they all be a different japanese demon?

[pure raven]

I assume it is more Hebrew related and it is Zazel, which is by folklore, tied to Saturn, it is evil but is is also a spirit and drawings mimic a devil or oni.

[tiny hatch]

maybe a combination of both?

I mean a demonic transformation that has the body of a spider and a bulls horn and than there is an actual japanese demon that is a spider with bull horns is kind of too perfect to not be connected

[pure raven]

I do not know how deep Oda went into Roman and Jewish folklore and legends. Based on planets, and history, Saturn was named after the Roman god of time. Zazel is just an antagonist of that. He is tied to Saturn and a demon, and fullfills the demon features. Zazel embodies the darker parts of Saturn.

I cannot confirm any of this but the horned design mimics the darker side of Saturn and the features. Could also be easily just be used as a part of its influence and it is a combination of different mythological creatures.

[dark compass]

This started out as crackpot shit but i think there might be some merit to it

The term Gorosei is a bit fucky to translate to english bc the term 星 (-sei) doesn't have a clear english counterpart (go watch the Artur video for 1086 for further context for all that). Because of this, the translation that i preferred most in my head was The Five Elder Satellites. The braincells just rubbed together in my head and I realized that Vegapunks Satellites share that same name.

It got me thinking about if the two could be mirrors of another, with Stella and Im filling the same role and the Gorosei filling the same role as Shaka, Lilith, Pythagoras, Edison and Atlas.

but obviously theres six satellites and five elders, but what if there used to be Six Elders but one betrayed the world government, mirroring York's betrayal of the Vegapunk, including how York wants to become a Celestial Dragon, and out hypothetical Sixth Elder would abandon becoming a celestial dragon.

The Sixth Elder would most likely still be alive and theres no shortage of suspects to choose from so theres not much point in getting into it,

I think im at least convinced theres supposed to a parallel between the Gorosei and the Punks, with all the Celestial shennanigians regarding the both of them. Maybe the term Satellites is used because they're artificially made, whereas the Five Elders might be 'naturally' or magically made.

(sorry if this isn't anything new, i just read the chapter and just plugged into the discourse)

[tiny hatch]

This sounds interesting I do like the idea of their being a traitor and it could possible connect to the void century I mean the biggest shame would having one of the highest authorities betray, but this completely relies on the preferred translation of satellite.

[dark compass]

I wouldn't say so, the connection could still be there if the terms don't match up. Satellites are artificial made celestial bodies, like the Punks, and the term -sei may be used to refer to naturally made ones, in the form of the Five Elders

[pure raven]

I know I brought up Jewish Legends before but I stillwould highly argue, that Oda is not focusing on just one aspect. Yes, Greece and its history might be an important part but I doubt, Oda is just focusing on one element and rather likes to combine elements of culture.

I also assume, that similar to Dantes inferno, where you have a sin ruling each circle of hell but Lucifer being the sin of pride and also the devil in the end, is mimicing the satellites, with Imu being the "sixth member of the Gorosai", ruling above them.

[distant slate]

yup those powers might come from imu

[pure raven]

I assume, all the DF the Gorosai have are handpicked.

[distant slate]

that as well, but i think their powers could still be ancient, and therefore they dont operate like modern devil fruits

devil fruits dont have a dark nature to them like his form.. Saturn is the first devil fruit outta nightmares instead of someones wish..

[pure raven]

Saturn has an awakened Zoan DF, that is all we know so far, I assume, that all of the Gorosai, have their DF awakened. They might not all be Zoan,maybe a mixture of all of the categories.

[unkempt burrow]

This is my theory for Luffys fruit he missing logia but I think it’d only be acquired when the fruit is at max power

He’s only just awakened the fruit technically, g6 logia power would be hilarious

[turbid trail]

Hoō looks very much like the silhouette of one of the other gorosei, which makes me think the ushi oni is more likely than a Hebrew interpretation

[pure raven]

I am not arguing against it, I just felt like Oda might have took inspiration from Jewish folklore.

[pure raven]

Not so sure, Luffy did grab lightning before, which I would argue fits some aspects of Logia. I mean Enel, can create lightning but Luffy in Gear 5 is easily able to just grab it and redirect it. I honestly see not future for Enel, if he comes back.

[brazen sail]

Holy shit man i just did all these research and theorizing in my free time with all these Japanese mythology stuff 😭 came here to present it but everyone else already on track as well

Found out about the umibozu myself and my god even its origin and stories match the world govt -ish. Same with the baku and tengu and whatnot

[gilded shell]

okay i have a theory cooking up, let me know what yall think. The sacrifice and death in this arc would be kizaru. I do think vp and kuma might die as well, but kizaru would be the biggest one. Kizaru's turning point: This would be during Kuma's arrival. Kuma's arrival in my mind is almost certain, and it would come at the same time as his flashback. Kuma's no doubt in my mind a friend of kizaru's like sentomaru and vegapunk, since kuma even has his lasers. Also it was implied that even akainu has history with kuma and bonney, and kizaru even commented how bonney grew up so fast. Yes harming sentomaru and vegapunk is extremely unpleasant for kizaru, but seeing the tragedy of kuma would what break the camel's back for kizaru. As the reveal of kuma's tragedy would not be incredibly visceral for the readers, but the people on egghead as well. With all these kizaru would turn against the world government and face the wraths of saturn
Thematically: Kizaru's turning at the climax of the story, which is kuma's tragedy reveal make a lot of sense. Every theme of this arc ties back to kuma: science experiments, and one's free will conflicting with one's allegiance as shown with the admirals, stussy, sentomaru. I think kizaru being a main focus here would really fit as he is the one character that we would assume has the least agency to forfeit his allegiance and do things upon his own free will.

Why he will die here: well obviously Saturn being very disappointed in him not finishing his mission does not bode well for him, also if he is to turn against the world government he would have to face Saturn for sure. One interesting connection i saw is kizaru's parallel to the god of light in norse mythology, which is the whole basis for elbaf. The god of light dies, and kick off the ragnarok. Similarly the big incident in egg that oda has been building up for so long, has a good chance to be what kick off the final war. As last time oda teased a big incident this many times, it was the marineford war. Kizaru's death could have huge ramification on general public and marine's perspectives on the world government, affecting people like akainu and aokiji who already have internal conflicts.
Blackbeard's involvement: In norse mythology the god of light was killed by trickester. And guess who's on the island potentially, Devon and Laffite. I could see them contributing kizaru's death as well. Going back to the blackbeard vs ace's fight, there was a lot imagery about the light vs the darkness, and blackbeard even said his darkness can swallow any light. Just like norse mythology , the god of light would be killed and the world would be plundered into darkness, which kick off the great battle. Mirroring what happened during ace vs blackbeard, except on a much bigger scale. kuma, sentomaru and kizaru who were our enemies on sabaody , would be our allies on egghead. Coincidentally on sabaody we had one of the most well done enemy to ally storyline with hachi.

[hardy trench]

Cook

[loud tide]

I js thought ab sum lmk if y’all agree. But If y’all remember after thriller bark they showed that super tall monster w the red eyes In the Florian triangle. I think that’s imu and imu has a devil fruit that turns them into an umibozu or sum. Which makes sense cause issa Japanese yokai that sinks ships

There’s a TikTok I got this from so I didn’t come up w it

[lunar imp]

i also have the same theory , the shadows from thriller bark looks exactly like umibozu

[loud tide]

It would be crazy if oda never revealed what imu truly looked like and kept them as a black shadow

[turbid rose]

I highly doubt Oda factored major aspects of Jewish (and Islamic) religions, except for where there are overlapping ties to Christianity... just a huge X on all of that.

[slim seal]

Why's that?

[turbid rose]

Why would it be included? It's not even common/popular mythology. Only stories about the Old/New Testaments are common and could be included, but it's highly not probably for Oda to study Jewish myth/folklore/history for One Piece. Maybe if Oda was Israeli, but not Japanese.

[iron current]

Oda gets inspiration from so many sources, it also could be Jewish stories/folklore what ever fits for him, is it less likely than Japanese folklore sure

[turbid rose]

It's like 90/10/0 split where it's 90% likely to be based off Japanese, 10% on anything else, then 0% based on Hebrew folklore lmao

[slim seal]

Seems like anything is on the table tbh. He seems to pull from lots of different cultures and mythologies

[turbid rose]

Anything within the realm of possibilities is on the table. That however will never be on the table despite how much yall attempt to cook. Go look up Zazel and let me know what you find

The only common tangent is Zazel is "demon of Saturn" and Saturn happens to be this Gorosei's name. Lines can only be formed between 2 points, but y'all drew a dot on that one

[pure raven]

I like this

[brazen sail]

Its easy inspiration from him to pull from. Its not from a source that makes it seem like its plagiarism, or anything near that. It allows him to branch off and sway it into the world hes made

[turbid rose]

Lmao whatever, can't convince people who can't be convinced

[brazen sail]

I just dont see why its a definite impossibility

[brazen sail]

Same goes for you ig

[turbid rose]

You're almost like Luffy's Snakemen punches, except they eventually land. Like there is a solution that is 99% probably and yall want to search for the 0.0001% least likely possibility.

Oda is Japanese. Japan has no Jewish influences. But sure, Oda created Saturn to be the spitting image of the "minor demon of Saturn from Hebrew myth".

[brazen sail]

What the hell does this even mean. Getting pressed over people not agreeing with your unpopular opinion and first thing you come to is just tryna shit on ppl

[lunar imp]

the saturn form is japanise myth.

[turbid rose]

Yes based off Japanese Yokai. I'm arguing against any basis of Saturn being based off "Zazel" from an earlier brainless post

[brazen sail]

Im not even saying x is an inspiration from y. Legit all i stated was that its a strong chance he can pull inspo from other things

[slim seal]

Yea not sure why you're so adamant about singling out hebrew folklore in general too? There's plenty of stuff in all different folklores that are easily researchable by anyone and would be great inspiration for an author (like Oda) to use as a springboard for ideas, or even to just implement almost 1:1 as he does sometimes

[lunar imp]

oda uses many real life places into one piece like dressrosa,alabasta, amazon lily, mary jelos. rtc etc

[slim seal]

We're probably gonna get in trouble if we keep discussing this in this channel tho

[lunar imp]

i think oda will mainly use japanease myths and yokai mostly , i dont think he will use arabian myths or georgian myths etc

[brazen sail]

Would we? Its just debating off of other ppls theories. Or is that a nah in this channel

[brazen sail]

Although its clear that the gorosei and imu are very clearly based off of yokai, i dont see it impossible as the other guy was implying that other religions/mythology could be brought in. Possibly to juxtapose and compare the differences in beliefs from such like certain pirates that could resemble 'x', while differing from 'y'

[slim seal]

I mean if we're about to go to Elbaf I bet we r also about to get a shit ton of Nordic mythology inspired stuff too

[brazen sail]

Exactly

[slim seal]

Their king is named Loki ffs

[digital hatch]

Saturn is gonna respawn from the magic circle every time he dies🥱

[exotic sun]

Do we have any confirmation or confidence on who the Blackbeard pirate is coming to Egghead?

[lunar imp]

yes in chapter 1079 ig

[exotic sun]

Caterina and Laffitte?

[ancient veldt]

I'm liking the theory that Saturn (as well as the other Elder Stars) isn't a devil fruit user but a devil of the sea, one who helped create the devil fruits. 🙏

[hybrid ivy]

Yup that's my headcanon for now. The elders and Imu are literally the devils. And maybe the devil fruit are just complications because of their existence

[hallow bear]

I wanna believe its 5 or 6 yokai yokai no mi's but because of how saturn transforms I'm not so sure

[autumn grove]

Doesn't really make sense, why would the five elders create powerfull tools for pirates and rebels like the gura gura no mi? They're trying to control the world and creating a fruit that grants the user insane powers seems counterproductive.

[ancient veldt]

When I say 'helped' make the fruits, I mean more to do with what @hybrid ivy stated above. An after affect of their existence.

[tepid rampart]

Has anyone else felt like the shiryu garp stab and the Bonny Saturn stab look a lot like whitebeard from marineford

[echo hound]

Well, it definitely looked like the Elders were partly responsible for the transformation of Kuma.

[fathom kayak]

Just saw a theory
The Florian triangle looks exactly like imu.
Probably imu in a zoan form the Umi Bozu

[humble thicket]

yo i just saw a fresh theory. remember those shadows in thriller bark? /s

[frail zephyr]

A small theory but

What if Joyboy is associated with Nika because Joyboy’s dream was to be like Nika. Therefore Joyboy then created that fruit as a result of his dreams to liberate the people.

[valid mauve]

What would have happened if a human ate choppers devil fruit?

[frail zephyr]

nothing really, Oda joked about being enlightened if you ate the fruit

[night lava]

A theory/stretch on the possible names of the Gorosei's fruits. They're all Yokai and I tried my best to have them look similar and have their descriptions also similar

Saturn - Scientific Defense: Ushi Oni - Known for attacking those who come cloae to their lair, similar to what Saturn did when one of the fodders looked at him.

Mars - Environmental: Kawa Tengu - Known for creating hallucinations to prank humans that goes close to his pond and might be related to him being an Environmental Warrior God.

Valcurie - Justice Warrior: Oni - known for their savage nature. Honestly I can't really find any similarity aside from their appearance although they're sometimes depicted as punishers in hell, relating to him being a Justice Warrior God.

Ju Peter - Agriculture Warrior: Amabiko - known for appearing to tell a prophecy about bountiful harvests

V. Nusjuro - Finance Warrior: Ozato - originates from Zato, known for being debt collectors, albeit corrupt.

For the appearances, Oni is usually depicted with 2 large horns, Amabiko is usually depicted as a bald sea creature with a protruding mouth, Ozato looks like an old man, Kawa tengu are humanoid-bird like creatures, and Ushi Oni are usually depicted as having a bull head and a spider body (as we've seen from the latest chapter)

An honorable mention to Imu. From just the name alone and the silhouette we've seen, it's highly likely that Imu is an Umibozu

[iron zephyr]

Pretty sure IMU is the personification of the goddess Eris

[dusky whale]

Theory I had today:
What if the giant frozen strawhat seen in Mary Geoise once held a preservation of JoyBoy, when queen lily spread the poneglyphs around the world, I speculate she had kuma's devil fruit the nikyu nikyu no mi to do so, as she did that before she left for alabasta and disappeared, she used her power on Joyboy and sent his preservation to a random island, which happened to be raftel, where he resides in a cryonic

[inland cobalt]

this is already off Saturn is the guy on the far left not far right?

the best theories I have heard is that Topman ate a Baku devil fruit a weird rhino/anteater/boar demon that eats dreams an extremely fitting design and powerset for a WG leader

[lament trout]

Theory: The Gorosei and the 'Devil Tribe'

Introduction:
This theory stems from the fact that ancient races in One Piece are not only stronger but also possess innate abilities, much like the Lunarians and Oni we've encountered.

The 'Devil Tribe':
The crux of this theory lies in the idea that the Gorosei, along with Imu, are part of what I'm calling the 'Devil Tribe.' This tribe would be one of those ancient races, characterized by their inherent powers.

Creation of Devil Fruits:
In this theory, the 'Devil Tribe' played a pivotal role in the creation of Devil Fruits. These fruits, imbued with incredible abilities, could have been crafted using the innate powers of this advanced civilization for now I will refer to it as ‘magic’.

Void Century:
To connect the theory to the overarching lore, it's possible that during the Void Century, Imu's faction enacted a sinister plan. This plan might have led to the neutralization of key figures like Nika/Joyboy and the fall of the Ancient Kingdom, and possibly eradicating most of the remaining 'Devils' in the all out war with the exception of the five Gorosei.

The Magic Circle:
The "magic circle" could symbolize bloodline abilities associated with the 'Devil Tribe.' This interpretation aligns with Oda's storytelling style, which often emphasizes the significance of lineage and heritage over fantasy (them being real Demons). The Hunger-ians' attempt to summon a demon resulting in Brook's “summoning” also says that there are faiths based on those legends. Such stories might be rooted in the 'Devil Tribe's' power to grant wishes or abilities through dark magic.

Vegapunk's Theory:
The theory resonates with Vegapunk's idea that Devil Fruits are linked to humanity's desires and wishes. As creators of these fruits, the 'Devil Tribe' would naturally possess the ability to Awaken them and combine animal powers, creating powerful fruits for themselves and of beings resembling Yokai.

Conclusion:
In conclusion, this theory sheds light on the Gorosei and their connection to a particular ‘Tribe,' who could be the ancient race responsible for crafting Devil Fruits. Also explains why a magic circle could be an innate ability like King’s flames vs a DF power. Thoughts?

[left phoenix]

Five Elders Awakened Mythical Zoans/Yokai Inspiration Speculation
Saturn is based on Ushioni (#5)
https://yokai.com/ushioni/
Ju Peter is based on Hanzaki (#4)
https://yokai.com/hanzaki/
Mars is based on Suzaku, Tengu, Basan or Itsumade (#3)
https://yokai.com/kotengu/
https://yokai.com/itsumade/
https://yokai.com/suzaku/
Nasajuro is based on Kurobozu (#2)
https://yokai.com/kurobouzu/
Warcury is based on Baku [most difficult to identify] (#1)
https://yokai.com/baku/

Imu abilities unclear but character is based on Yaobikuni (#0)
https://yokai.com/yaobikuni/
Additionally, I think Imu's powers are of Kagewani (shadow dragon)
https://yokai.com/kagewani/

Garling is based on Katsura Otoko
https://yokai.com/katsuraotoko/

I would post pictures but can't.

[humble thicket]

ok case closed

[inland cobalt]

I don’t think all of them will be based on yokai but a lot of them have interesting concepts

[sour nova]

Theory: Sogeking might be Usopp from the Straw Hats

Why: Has a similar nose structure to usopp and uses same weapon

Conclusion: This information leads me to believe Sogeking could actually be Usopp from the Straw Hats

[humble thicket]

ok... you have my attention

[lament trout]

He probably just making fun of my format lol 😂

[slim seal]

Woke: coming up with a theory and taking the time to format and share it with everyone so we can have fun

Broke: clogging up the channel by posting joke theories

[humble thicket]

all in good fun im sure. happy friday 🙂

[tacit kayak]

.

[fossil elk]

@lament trout i actually had this same theory but you wrote it out quite well. Something i noticed as well, usually with introductions of new people or when their power comes into play, you'll see what "Devil fruit or powers they have in the intro" none of that is revealed. Oda likes to keep things hidden but its one more reason why i support the theory they maybe actually devils and devil fruits are derived from them. gives another layer as to why they obtain positions of power and to silence and ban information.

There was another theory going around that the previous era fought a war against the devils.

2nd Theory: A lot of one piece is a reflection of our own world, Including it's history, politics, etc. From Imperialism and colonization with Mary Geoise. Modern day politics always has a boogeymen to blame, that boogeyman (Rich, Powerful, elite, etc) or rather illuminati are the 5 elders and imu in one piece.

wouldn't be too far fetched as, oda has a deep understanding of western culture, relations, celebrities and our political landscape.

[slim seal]

I'd like to think that Vegapunk's theory probably has some truth to it. Otherwise it's kind of an odd choice imo to have a character tell us the literal only in universe theory about the origins of the fruits this late into the series

[inland cobalt]

Especially someone that smart

[pure raven]

I stand corrected, to you who posted the theory about Saint Saturn and the Yokai it does make a lot of sense after deepdiving wikipedia and several Japanese folklore sites, hence meaning that the power could be tied to that.

[pure raven]

Seen an interesting theory/thought that final island Laughtale might be inside the earth. One piece theories always talk about Space, but what if everything is inside the earth maybe even the the rest of the Lunarians or old Ancient kingdom Allies/d clan are hidden inside the one piece earth. Would parallel with how Imu and CD’s are seen as Gods and live on top of the world, but are actually demons. While the good people the actual “Gods” have gone into hiding beneath the earth.

[left phoenix]

underneath reverse mountain?

[pure raven]

Hollow earth

[gentle pecan]

Kaido/Big Mom sitting down there waiting:

[pure raven]

If they landed in Hollow earth that be an interesting cover story

[gentle pecan]

But they ded apparently

[sour nova]

cmon lighten up buddy nothing wrong with a joke

[sour nova]

hahaha nah i did take ur format, but i legit thought there was a format rule for posts here, so i just copied ur format lmao

[night lava]

Although either way, if you switch their places, the appearances would still look similar. An oni might also have some tusks in their mouth, like Kaido's numbers (I speculate that the ancient giants are Oni's)

[night lava]

Oh I forgot to reply ^^^

[brazen sail]

probably said before, but just to add on I'm guessing that imu + the gorosei dont have devil fruit abilities, but the ACTUAL raw devil powers. not sure if im pulling this out of my ass but arent devil fruits like the "souls" of the devils that used those abilities and etc? what if the gorosei and imu are just that 'og' and one of the last remaining actual devils. would explain the genuine demonic shit that the magic circle is

[brazen sail]

damn another huge discovery for imu. i thought it was almost clearly based off the umiboshi, but even the yaobikuni and the kagewani resemble her so well.

ontop of the theory that the gorosei are leant their power via imu, it would make even more sense with those. for ex, the baku is known to consume and extinguish flames by eating it or whatever. when sabo attacked imu, imu had extenguished and defended herself effortlessly which could be from the powers of the baku. after the gorosei transform, we no longer see imu in her form we know her as, and becomes a giant shadowy figure similar to the umiboshi. my theory is that imu had given her powers to furtherr 'harness' the demonisms of the gorosei, while becoming her true form. what if the imu possess some power that is the root/keeper of all yokai, and transfers/releases abilities at will.

a bit streching, but i guess it does paralell the whole straw hats themes of 'dreams' if you can interperet the yokais as 'nightmares'

[fossil elk]

I also had the same theory a bit up top as with many others. I think they're the original Devils.
or there are a separate category of devil fruits like demon fruits

[daring jay]

I think Zoro unlocked Haki first out of all the straw hat pirates all the way back in Alabasta in his fight against Mr. 1 because when the rocks were falling he managed to dodge them all which could be unintentional observation haki.

[left phoenix]

It could also be speculated that during enies Lobby Zoro's ashura was unintentional conqueror's haki

[hardy trench]

considering saturn's magic atp asura's got a decent chance of being completely literal lmao

[winged bane]

This is the one

[wispy holly]

Are we on board with theorys about the five elders being inmortal because they got ope ope no mi on respawn 800 years ago? Or are we thinking they somehow manage to get those devil looking ass devil fruits each generation since 800 years?

[daring jay]

Ye but even before that in his fightwith Mr. 1 that could be observation Haki

[analog ore]

saturn will give a speech for 2 chapters before getting 1 shotted by someone

[boreal skiff]

The gorosei are demons who ate a human human fruit

[pure raven]

I think I understood the reason why Blackbeard can eat two devil fruits, in chapter 385 blono of the CP9 says that a human who eats two devil fruits will explode because the devils that live inside that fruit will fight, what if each devil has another devil that he can live with peacefully? It also completes the reason why Blackbird wanted this fruit specifically because Yami Yami no Mi is a good fruit to himself but if with the help of Yami Yami he can also eat the most destructive fruit in the world, that means he has a great reason to want this specific fruit.

[tame walrus]

ch.1095: daddy

• flashback... saturn and vegapunk, kuma agrees to drop from the rev. army and ally his country with the WG as the result of a raid, then step down from the throne under the condition of bonney surviving, saturn disagrees as kuma's bloodline surviving is still as issue for the legetimacy of the new regime, then kuma cuts a deal with him to become a mindless weapon so bonney survives in the end.
• saturn agrees thinking of adding such a strong asset to the warlods.
• bonney is too little to understand back then, carried away by vegapunk to safety, borsalino is among the overseers of the entire operation.
• saturn: do it, vegapunk, his conciousness remaining intact cannot be allowed at any cost.
• vegapunk is trembling while being forced to turn his friend into a walking corpse devoid of his will, he still proceeds, though with an intentional flaw and unknowingly to the marines and saturn, he keeps his feelings for his daughter and a mission that obliges him to protect bonney from danger.
• both kuma and vegapunk spoke about all this.
• kuma is completed, reinstated as a warlord to the shock of the rev army and the entire world, kept under vegapunk to continue work for what comes later to be known as the pacifista.
• back to the present, saturn dismisses bonney with a violent attack from one of his limbs, tries to kill her then kuma interferes at the end to block saturn and/or catch bonney.

[fossil elk]

is this spoilers or is this theory? wtf did you just post

[tame walrus]

umm... channel name?
just some random predictions that will be far more wrong than right

[upbeat vector]

i wonder if god valley

[lunar imp]

why didnt imu fight in god vallley??. ig bcoz he was not strong enough as xebec or maybe he didnt considered xebex as a threat

[pure raven]

Did they mention about uranus's location or itself at all?

What if its a spaceship cause it means "sky" or "heaven" in greek

[unkempt burrow]

I understand that but I can’t see them being weak, I think they have superiority complexes and don’t even want to see the little ants, we can see they’re definitely not weak if one can at least kill anyone rear admiral level and below on command I think that it shows they’re admiral level or higher. That’s a broken ability overall and Saturn is our first so I’m exited for the others abilities but I wanna reinforce that I believe they’re reasonably strong

I definitely think imus depressed tho, buddy has 5 friends who are all scared of him💀

[oblique isle]

Possibly it has something to do with black smoke and white smoke we see too. Ether yin and yang maybe or you can only have two of the same type like that

[limpid mesa]

If it wants happiness or unconditional love why would it want to destroy islands

[opaque quail]

saturn = satan

even by pronouncing it on japanese it sounds like satan when you say saturn

m y theory is that gorosei are all named and themed after lords of hell
their names must be referenced to that too + the thing sabo said about the top of the world looking like hell

[mellow spoke]

They are actual devils without fruits i think

[limpid mesa]

Yeah fr itd be a cool concept seeing how all the ancient mfs have connections to each other in some way or another

[echo cape]

Why did my dude make a entire paragraph😭

Like DAMN

[slim seal]

That's what this channel is for..?

[fickle scroll]

But imu has complete autonomy over that

[hallow bear]

If the one piece is a physical object I think luffy should give it to zoro then send him on his way

[fickle scroll]

The one piece is pretty much confirmed to be tangible , right ?

But Roger had a D in his name and didn’t eat a fruit

[hallow bear]

Its confirmed to be a physical reward but for all we know the one piece could be a town with an ancient civilisation with everything the rest of the strawhats need to reach their goals, the all blue, the rest of the worlds history, maps of the world, ingredients to make the medicine that cures all, you get the idea

[iron zephyr]

It's one piece, it has so much content. I could write a book just off of theories alone, lol.

[echo cape]

true💀

[wintry schooner]

i think Imu and the 5 elders didnt use their full power potential since they´re dont want to show or reveal it to evryone present at mary geosis like the soldier, the marine and the people participating at the reverie

[kindred remnant]

no because sogeking is from sniper island and ussop is from syrup village

[echo cape]

Exactly 🤷🏼‍♀️

[silver kiln]

just plot armor like it happened many time.

[iron zephyr]

lol, no its not plot armor. That's just shitty writing if that was the case but not with Oda.

[silver kiln]

How the heck was kyros able with one leg to leave the almot while DD family ? (with king riku )

[tacit peak]

So hear me out.
I saw in social media that someone made a theory that Jay Garcia, might not had eaten a devil fruit, but is infact one.
And so that got me thinking of the theory which is that, maybe the countries in the past wanted to get Joy Boys powers, because he had to much freedom and had to much power, and so maybe Joy Boy created all the devil fruits that exist and blended the Nika Nika fruit in all of the other devil fruits for nobody can find it

[magic echo]

Quick theory off the top of the dome.
I have no evidence to support this like I usually do, all head cannon, but I have an idea that makes a lot of sense.

There are a lot of theories around Saturns devil fruit or wheather it is even a devil fruit at all, some think Oda is introducing magic into the series for the final saga, and I don’t think that’s the case.

Here’s my idea
We’ve always wondered why’re they’re actually called Devil fruits. Why devil... And then one of the final big bad’s of the series happens to turn into a Demon (yokai) (devil).

What if the final big bad’s of the story all have literal devil fruits.
The first fruits from the tree’s of Adam, Eve and possibly lillith.

We know there is a tree on the redline somewhere, what if there legitimately are Demon Zoans, Hellish Logia’s, and Occult paramecia ((or some shit like that (and I mean like a new category, like Saturns fruit isn’t a Mythical Zoan, it’s a demonic Zoan and they have different properties from mythical and ancient zoans))

I imagine many members of the God Knights will have Devil fruits, and there is just no way that Oda would have an entire Zoan centric arc again (i hope 😭 )

But yeah, i think the first fruits from the Trees were all demonic in some way, and Imu managed to gather them all up, distribute them through the powers that Be, and since it seems like a lot of these guys are old, like, OLD OLD, they may be holders of the first Demonic Fruits

[loud nimbus]

Well not enough of a benefit of a doubt, as it looks like Imu and the other member of the proto World Government eliminated her before she returned to Arabasta.

[olive locust]

My theory is that the One Piece Planet has been awakened by Nika (Through the voice of all things), awakened its will and fights back against Alien invaders by producing elemental fruits - to equip its people and power then up for the war.

Let's call it Mother Earth-like entity who miraculously once produces powerful elemental fruits (Through trees Adam and Eve) to help the ancient kingdom against the alien invaders.

The trees Adam (Currently Missing) and Eve (Located at Fishmen Island) might exist alongside each other 800 years ago, and like the Hometree from Avatar, those trees might be sacred and have their own will as well. The Mother Earth-like entity might be the one who used those trees to produce the first devil fruits, which are created based on the dreams of its people to fight Imu. (Fire man and Ice man, for example)

I think the devil fruits are the supernatural response of the Planet to fight back against Alien invaders when they're trying to invade the planet. When Nika (The original Sun God) has been killed, his will was also absorbed by the Planet itself through the trees Adam and Eve, producing the first mythical zoan, the Nika Fruit which was consumed in the end by Joyboy. (At first, it might have produce the elementals/logia, paramecia and zoan fruits but later produced mythical zoans since it decided to absorbed not just the will but the personality and power of the person that the Mother Earth acknowledges)

The trees original location might be at the center of Marijois, but ended up destroying them at the end of war - Sunlight Tree Eve separated and fell down to what we called fishmen island, and Adam has been cut down and permanently destroyed.

Those fruits are called devil fruits by WG since they are originally weapons of the ancient kingdom, created by the help of the Mother Earth-like entity to help them against those invading aliens.

I also bet Gorosei transformations are not by the power of devil fruits - it's their original powers.

[gaunt zenith]

Its a real item iirc, I have a feeling only Joyboy can actually use it thou.

[magic echo]

I agree, I love that myth as well.

[magic echo]

I like a lot of this.
Im like 70% on board but it also feels too biblical too me.
Oda heavily draws from many religions and especially IRL political beliefs and events (for example Monkey D. Dragon is literally Che Guevara as an anime character)

I think the thing that gives me pause is naturalistic superpowers or maybe that the Elders and Imu are inherently demonic

The reason I assume that’s not the case is now it’s confirmed that Pre-void century times was time of great technology, like our modern era.

There is a good storytelling troupe that Science can progress so far that things essentially look like magic to the untrained eye.

If it’s not the first devil fruits being hoarded by the elders, I think they have some type of science that is so beyond our comprehension that it essentially just looks like magic.

[olive locust]

Summary of Theory:

What if more than 800 years ago, the One Piece Planet was awakened by Nika (Through the voice of all things), gave its own will and became able to fight back against Alien invaders by producing elemental fruits - to power up its people for the war?

Adam and Eve located at Marijois, produced those fruits, but were destroyed later (Sunlight Tree Eve fell down to Fishman Island, then Adam fully destroyed).

[inland cobalt]

Sabo is just strong and characters talking in fights is constant in anime

[magic echo]

I do like the idea of aliens. It’s crazy that we know aliens do infact exist but they’ve only done shit in cover stories 😭

Coco’s right: sabo is atleast as strong as Koby, bare minimum Vice admiral level

[iron zephyr]

Don't be silly. It 6v1. We're talking about end game characters

[magic echo]

Sabo’s head didn’t explode though, so he gotta be strong

[inland cobalt]

He’s stronger than coby, almost certainly dragon claw is very likely an advanced armament technique and he just had to run away

[iron zephyr]

5 gorosei and imu vs Sabo...lol. I guess they are weak like I stated earlier.

[inland cobalt]

Not to mention sabo can easily scale to endgame characters he has one of the best logias plus years of experience fighting and being as strong as ace the son of GOLD ROGER as a kid.

[iron zephyr]

I'm not saying Sabo is weak. I never implied that.

[inland cobalt]

Then why is failing to kill a strong character an Indictment on them ? It’s not like he beat them he just escaped severely wounded. Marco stalled king and queen and those 2 aren’t weak at all.

[iron zephyr]

We have no idea of Sabos potential but I also agree he scales to endgame but so should the gorosei and IMU. Sabo did get hurt bit surprised he escaped them all

[inland cobalt]

They are but Sabo can fly and the Gorosei/Imu need to keep their cover just entering marie jois would be enough to force them to revert back.

[magic echo]

Can’t downplay koby anymore though cause mans got conquer haki.

Honestly... Idk who is stronger between them, might be an enjoyable duel to see if it ever happens.

[old root]

Koby doesnt have conquerors haki

[left phoenix]

Yeah not confirmed

[old root]

and how are u guys even comparing Koby to Sabo?

[inland cobalt]

Coby might be stronger later on but even then it would be slight and Sabo is probably stronger atm but regardless we aren’t supposed to powerscale

[old root]

smh im out

[magic echo]

This not conquoror haki?

[left phoenix]

I don't know, not saying he does or doesn't but I need to see more evidence

[iron zephyr]

Does Koby ever yell out his moves or does he just speak through actions?

Honesty impact is his move but is that implying its Conqueror or just a skill tech?

It's probably armament

[magic echo]

When I and others say it’s conquerors we are mostly referncing the small specs of visible lightning.

Also, idk if we’ve ever seen this level of devastation come from a non-DF user that only has Armament and Observation.

I feel that you need Conquerors haki if you going to have this level of destruction behind your physical attacks

[left phoenix]

If it was conqueror's why are none of the fodder passing out?

[magic echo]

Cause those are two different aspects of conquorors haki, also he just awoke it.
When luffy just awoke it the radius he could knock people out was quite small, it noticeably grew when he used it the second time on Fishman Island.

... Not to mention, Koby’s flying through the air fighting a giant Earth Mecha... There’s no fodder around him.

We also know conq range scales on prowess due to shanks being able to bluetooth punch greenbull from MILES away

[left phoenix]

Convenient, but again if Koby shows a confirmed feat of conqueror's haki I will believe it, but for right now it is speculation.

[magic echo]

[loud nimbus]

Well he’s been following in garps footsteps in training to throw a punch without haki.

[magic echo]

X_X bro, you have to learn to walk before you can run.
That was combat training.

Garp 100% uses conquors in his punches, galexy impact had HUGE black lighting streaks

[heady cedar]

I'm definitely not an expert on Japanese Folklore or Mythology, but is there any possibility that Chopper's Devil Fruit isn't just the standard Human Human Fruit, but the Hito Hito no Mi Model: Kitsune? Just a surface search on the topic told me that the Kitsune in folklore or known to be quite intelligent and have transformative capabilities, just like Chopper.

[onyx palm]

I don’t even know with chopper. He just has weird transformations that don’t even relate to ‘humans’ I feel like it should be model ‘Humanoid’ lol because he still has reindeer transformations like horn point and stuff

[loud nimbus]

There’s already a kitsune devil fruit and it’s in the possession of Devon

[heady cedar]

That’s the Inu Inu no Mi, Model: Kyubi no Kitsune. A devil fruit that is more than likely completely separate then the one I theorized.

[hallow bear]

If he doesn't now I know he's gonna get it, kobys gonna be that fight before the final battle like (spoilers for naruto and jojo pt 7) ||sasuke in naruto and Diego in steel ball run||. In order to be that guy hes gonna need conq at the very least

[gaunt zenith]

Anyone think there might be a split in the Marines? Or is that just my wishful thinking?

[magic echo]

I think you are pulling at hair’s a bit here considering devon’s fruit does exist.

Your theory would break the pre-existing norms for Zoan type devil fruits.
Kyubi are kitsune which are Inu which are dogs which are foxes.

A hito hito kyubi wouldn’t exist because a humanoid fox isn’t a thing that exists.

I do like the idea that Choper isn’t using a human devil fruit though.

I think another interesting issue here is there are more examples of inanimate objects using devil fruitd than there are examples of real animals usng devil fruits.

[swift nacelle]

I am under the impression that only Zoans can be fed to objects since only Zoans have their own will. This way the fruits completely and immediately take over. Feeding zoans to inanimate objects is the best way to give the fruit akuma immediate access to a body

[faint zephyr]

what if luffy dies before reaching his dream?

[obtuse vault]

The Goresei aren’t immortal.

With the reveal of Saturn’s form there was a magic circle. If we go back to the end of chapter 233 (Goresei’s introduction) we see some more magical circles lining the walls. So those magic circle’s may be slowing the aging process of the Gorosei. That would explain why they always stay in castle Pangea. But when they leave that room they start to age again. Their appearance didn’t seem to age after the 2 year time skip. Saturn even states that it’s been a long time since he’s been to the surface. So it’s very possible that it’s been hundreds of years since they have left Castle Pangea. With these magic circles it could very make it where the Goreei are untouched by time but not have eternal youth or immortality.

[granite fable]

Gorosei fruit prediction Based on the shadows

-Mars-Markus Mars - Cockatrice, Basan, Itsumade

-Jupiter- Saint Shepard Ju peter -mikoshi-nyudo,

-Venus- Saint Ethan Baron V nusjuro - Enenra, Naruhiyon

-Mercury- Topman Valcury - Baku,

[swift nacelle]

I strongly believe that an eventual gorosei longevity is attributed to their zoan fruits. The zoans have increased healing

[obtuse vault]

Possible as well. Although he does remember to show his age a little more in egghead

[magic echo]

My theory is that Imu had the eternal youth surgery done on them and in reality the 5 Elders are actually Satellites of Imu. Very similar to how Vegapunk has his own 6 Satellites.

I also postulate Vegapunk got the idea of satellites to begin with from Saturn who is the “god of science”

No doubt zoans alow you to live longer but... Imu is like 800+ years old.
Idk if fruits can do dat

[swift nacelle]

Yeah, that's cool

[swift nacelle]

It would make sense for imu to get ope ope immortality. My hypothesis is that gorosei don't live extremely long. It's that their zoans choose to stay in their bloodline and get eaten by their heirs

[magic echo]

I like this, but i personally cannot agree cause it conflicts with my theory that they are satellites

I don’t think them elders are real people at all 😈

[iron zephyr]

What's your take on IMU not aging due to it being an advanced AI machine?

[swift nacelle]

They might just be DF hosts and the zoans do the talking
I think i posted that a while ago

[granite fable]

For Markus Mars I believe that one of these three will be what his fruit will be based on specifically Basan or Itsumade as it’s shown in the latest chapter that Saturn is based on the Yōkai ushi oni a I think it would be fair to believe that the rest of gorosei are also based on Yōkai. A reason to believe that his fruit is based on Basan that is chicken that breathes fire and supposedly lives on “mountains” which could be interpreted as “red line” . Finally the final Yōkai Itsumade, to start if you saw you the Yokai you would be believe it to resemble the shadow monster we believe was Markus Mars zoan type, other then that I can’t find any other good reason for it to be the shadow monster we saw.

[magic echo]

Honestly, i fuck with any theory that dehumanizes Imu and the 5 elders.

I think they are vestages of the lost tech from pre-void century.

We know that before the voice century they were in a “Modern tech+ Era” a lot like ourselves, maybe “our tech level 100+ years” in the future.

So I’d totally be down for Imu being an AI.

My biggest thing is the Eternal Youth surgery Chekhov’s gun.
I don’t think it was set up for no reason, that’s a massive story point and it has to become narratively relevant again.

Also zoans definitely increase vitality but it doesn’t give people insane vitality or I think we would’ve met some older Zoan users by now.

[hallow bear]

Brook will be the only one who won't achieve his dreams in the crew

His goal is seeing laboon again which is gonna be impossible because he doesn't have eyes

YOHOHOHOHOHO

[magic echo]

Damn bro, you have me deeply thinking about the mental state of two fictional characters, one of which we still know nothing about. I feel sad for them.

Also the eternal youth surgery grafting a flesh suit body around brooks bones so he can die again is nightmare fuel

This does make me like the Satellite idea a tad bit more cause Imu has to be lonely.
If I was some kind of genius or world leader i’d want my homies to be immortal with me aswell

[iron zephyr]

and angry too lol

[magic echo]

Fun fact, no one jokes about Akainu and there isn’t a single panel of him smiling or joking either.

He is always just “a mad dog”

Even black beard has joke panels like when he was eating all those cherry pies or got his ass kicked by Megellian.

I think you’re onto something though.

No one has really talked about this but when Saturn landed on the surface he said this.

“The world’s surface, it’s been a while” what does he actually mean by that

[loud nimbus]

Maybe this is the first time he’s actually been made landfall on the ground below Mary Geoise. Maybe he used that pentagram thing to teleport on his marine ship

[kind wind]

when we saw frankies nee bounty poster it was the thousand sunny, and in the most recent chapter he had was in the same position as the way ace was when akainu cornered him and luffy

[iron zephyr]

Ok yeah thats plausible for sure. I was just going to ask how'd he end up on the ship without seeing the ground at some point

And Im guessing they must think he's enough to get the job done or else two elders would have been probably better

[iron zephyr]

I saw pics of him representing a japanese demon but he almost looks like a type of stag beetle

[magic echo]

I mean of course but i think he’s referncing time. Like he hasn’t been on the surface in like millennia

Final theory of the day:
Bonnie strawhat 🙂

(I honesltly think a lot of people are gunna come back and eventually become real strawhats like yamato, vivi, etc.

But i think the first to join before we get a bunch of new joins is bonnie)

[dull gale]

I think bonnies powers are gonna deactivate luffys cooldown. Whenever luffys on cool down he gets old looking bonnies powers control age.

[iron zephyr]

Which of the 3 potential straw hats filll a role on the ship?

[magic echo]

I mean this is pretty easy actually.

Yamato is a logsman, carrot is a lookout, vivi... She doesn’t need a role (but in reality, when she was on the ship she was a great advisor to luffy and zoro) and Bonnie is the spy like Katarina.

That being said, i think roles become less important as the ships population go. Once you get a fleet, distinct roles are way less important.

The best one piece theory i’ve ever found was about the final crews of blackbeard and Luffy, ill post it here:
https://youtu.be/0AGGPMdMFvQ?si=KrCpyATmnzlaxVXZ

This is genuinely the best one piece theory i’ve ever found and it reinvigorated my love for the series cause i was pissed when yamato didn’t join lmao

[cerulean mantle]

I don't know if people already know this....
So it seems like the chances of the gorosei being actual yokais and and not devil fruit users might be true.
Was watching episodes 993 and 994.
In 993 when shinobu sees big mom's homies she says that they're fictional creatures called yokai from land of wanos ghost stories. So my guess is that Joyboy and the Shogun of wano during the void century might've fought against the yokais at wano. And during the final battle during the fall of the ancient kingdom Zunesha might've somehow indirectly involved with the death of the Shogun of wano. So he was sentenced to walk for eternity and him doing so being the loyal servent he is. Wano might've been spared by the yokais for some reason like the next succeeding Shogun might've promised the yokais to so close it's borders and never to make contact with the outside world again or something like that.
Joyboy hid the ancient weapons which were created to eliminate the yokais for the next Joyboy to be used in the final battle. So momonosuke is waiting to open the borders and unleash pluton when the final battle arrives.
And in episode 994 when Robin talks about the ancient weapons to jinbei each represents each color. Pluton for green, Uranus for red and Poseidon for blue. If the colors represents their actual abilities the Pluton must be an air based weapon. Uranus must be a land based weapon and Poseidon a sea based weapon. Each of them cornering the yokais from every angle. Joyboy must've used Uranus to build the wall around Wano to equally protect Pluton and to deceive the yokais making them believe that Wano is closing it's borders.

[iron zephyr]

Well Luffy has 10 members than, including himself that's 11

[magic echo]

I implore you to watch the video, you just might be moved

[iron zephyr]

I'm checking it out right now. And I'm hapoy he added the sunny

[hallow bear]

Vivis the crews political speaker (whatever the correct term is)

[magic echo]

Yeah, she could be the negotiator, politican, mentor, advisor, etc. She fits that and fulfilled it when she was on the ship

[hallow bear]

possibly, whats the likelyhood that one of these new people will get the paw fruit

[magic echo]

Anyone still agree with that really old theory that franky gets the paw paw fruit

One piece editor leak from like 2016 or something

[hallow bear]

I don't think so, he did instantly turn down the flame fruit during dressrosa

[magic echo]

Other things in the theory have come true which is why people still talk about the franky theory.

That being said, i think Ussop should get it.
He’d be able to snipe throught tanks and shoot himself into the air to get great vantages.

The more you think about it, the more broken Usopp would be with it.
Remember the fruit alone was able to push air at the speed of lightning. Imagine being sniped with a plant moving at that speed

Ussop with the fruit would also negate van augur’s teleportation

[hallow bear]

Bro what? Giving it to someone like usopp would be a massive waste,

if it was any of the current straw hats it should be sanji, I'm not saying he should have it

[magic echo]

Why do you think it’d be a waste, the paw fruit isn’t buffed by physical strength.
Also sanji can literally already fly, he already is probably going to get something hotter than ifrit jambe...

The paw paw fruit is mostly about making metaphysical object physical and moving people around the world using air bubbles, sounds perfect for ussop

Ussop could literally STEAL someone elses bravery and absorb it (which would suck from a storytelling standpoint, but he could)

[desert notch]

My predictions on how important the strawhats could be on the last saga (excluding luffy,zoro and sanji since they always get a pivotal role as top fighters)

1. Usopp
   I'm 99% sure elbaf will be an usopp arc. His story has been leading up to that single place.

2. Nami
   Nearly not as clear as usopp's,but her unclear origins will be important along with her role as navigator,since they do need to find their way to laugh tale

3. Robin
   Jane Poneglyph will be a very important person for decrypting the last stone. She also had a decent bit of development in wano

4. Brook
   He already knew about roger,who knows what other info he might know? Also his old kingdom could be very relevant very,very soon.

5. Franky
   Very unclear territory but his parents being unknown pirates holds some improtance. I would've put him in 4th or 3rd place if the egghead arc (you know,the arc of the guy who he based his entire body on?) didn't sideline him so much when he could've been very important here

6. Jimbe
   He's an older member of the crew,and his story is basically complete. He already had his youth and his adventures,he's basically the group dad. Pretty unlikely of him to be any relevant. Would've actually put him in 7th place if the most dumbed down character didn't steal that spot,who's no other than...

Drumrolls please....

7. CHOPPEEEEER
   Yes,it's him and you know it. He's been a mascot figure since the timeskip and he'll be nothing more. Oda fumbled him so bad it's insane

[magic echo]

Already reaponded but im really not sure why you think it’d be a waste.

Anyways, it’s most likely going to be franky but my choice is Usopp

[hallow bear]

Never mind I'm an absolute dumbass it seems

[magic echo]

Why are you a dumbass?

[hallow bear]

Never mind dw about it

[magic echo]

I think Bonnie's fruit is actually the timeline timeline fruit (or dimension dimension fruit)
Not necessarily the ability to change people's ages and such, but the ability to control her’s and other’s timelines and her awakening is the effect can be permanent.
So she can swap to a timeline where she is a bodybuilder.
Or send you to a timeline where you are smarter
Or even swap you into a timeline where you’re dead.

(like the movie everything everywhere all at once)

[unkempt burrow]

I think she may be able to permanently alter Luffys body to negate the aftermather of his gears aswell as ivankovs drugs

Big maybe tho, he needs more development either way, as well as maybe a little study arc to gain some iq

[magic echo]

I also think bonnies fruit in combination with kuma’s fruit can send someone back in time.

The paw paw fruit can make metaphysical or non physical objects physical.

I think the final saga’s gunna get wacky bois

[unkempt burrow]

That might be the only other way to manipulate time other than Odens wife’s fruit

[unkempt blaze]

Can someone point me to a theory on what imu is

[left phoenix]

My theory
Imu's backstory may be based on Yaobikuni
https://yokai.com/yaobikuni/
Imu's powers may be based on Kagewani
https://yokai.com/kagewani/

[magic echo]

Put this in your searchbar and there are never ending theories:
in:manga-theories topman

Also imu is definitely an Umibozu

@hallow bear @iron zephyr i know i already told y’all to watch shit today but i think sawyer legitimately just figured out how the 5 elders zoans work.
This is another massively under rated youtuber.
My personal theory on this before the video released: #manga-theories message
Video displays a lot of foreshadowing that has been missed

• New zoan type, instead of mythical, demon zoans.
• User has to be set on fire to summon their powers or change forms.
• the summoning circle from 1074 is seen in Marie Goise as like “ceiling pannels”
• topmusica stuff from film red and the fact that demons do exist

https://youtu.be/WNDH8yf89Y8?si=NONc-N7B_7fc4Lv-

[viscid bone]

Might not be a devil fruit, maybe that just his normal form

[magic echo]

Watch it

[plush shadow]

What if the op op fruit might have used in elders df

[azure scarab]

What about the possibility of Black Beard getting the Paw Paw fruit??

[inland cobalt]

Why would he want it dark dark and rumble rumble basically already give him elite defense and offensive skills

The Paw Paw fruit is great but it’s worse at offense than quake fruit and worse at defense than dark fruit

[primal dove]

big news morgan is a gorosei because he is based off mythical animal and we never see him and gorosei in the same room

[inland cobalt]

He’s directly opposing them and albatrosses aren’t mythical…

[hardy trench]

idk have you ever met one

[loud nimbus]

Yeah, he’s already vested in making sure they don’t have their way. Rejecting a bribe, beating a cipher pol agent, going on the move, hiding vivi and Wapol, ignoring their order to hide G5.

Watching Morgans actions of framing Luffy as kidnapping Vegapunk and asking for a bribe for the WG reminds me of this old sci-fi quote from a mercantile race: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.

So far Morgans has just been doing that. And even his own cover story for egghead came true. Not sure if that’s a good thing or bad thing for morgans. If this cover story came true, is it possible that the elders could incorrectly infer Morgans was in on the “kidnapping plot”? Especially after Lucci, if he survives, reports Strussy, a known Morgans associate, defected? I predict in the future Morgans may have someone knocking on his airship. I wouldnt put it past the remaining masked cp0 agents to sky walk all the way up to Morgans supposedly mobile airship.given that Cp0 agent Joseph was able to skywalk for a height atop a floating onigashimi above a height over a towering Wano and safety land on the deck of a marine ship below it should be a cakewalk

[oblique isle]

The circles are actually completely different than the summoning circles tho

Unless each points reps a planet ?

[left phoenix]

I think it's just a coincidence. I'm not reading into it unless more info is presented

[toxic bison]

Hey I think govalleey incedent is related to kumas backstory somewhat

[muted valley]

What if the magic circles Re more a devil fruit power similar to hawkins straw body's. Where it uses like blood Magix, where conditions Re set by verbal methods. At the cost of the world or slaves.

So by ordering only X people cN see him. While also having some other condition like ownership of the people due to status. So extreme feats can be performed.

Also it may be a forbidden knowledge thing that was possible but it's information is to dangerous. So only certain people can do it.

So shanks teleports using something like this, Saturn's head explodes and teleportation is due to this.

The man marked by flames has a wg affiliation like shiriyu assumed. And uses this to control the sea with whirlpools.

As well as the holy knights all battle like this and is how they have insane strength.

Or it's some haki deviation, where it's literal willpower to make thoughts/stuff possible.

[muted valley]

Also the circle has 5 points and 5 5s all in it. Maybe refers to something gorosei related like number/rank.

[oblique isle]

I seen one theory that it's the order of the planets from the son minus earth

[magic echo]

there are other images in the video

[analog narwhal]

buggy is the king of the pirates in chapter 1200

[strong flower]

bro watching ohara vids

So my theory is basically about BLACKBEARD

Many ppl talking abt all types of powers abt blackbeards 3rd fruit but they missed on key thing...
Black beard ate the Yami Yami no mi - Logia
Stole Whitebeards Gura Gura no mi - Paramecia

So the only thing remaining is a Mythical Zoan
He is either gonna eat one or more rarer case A GOD FRUIT

NEXT THEORY

Rocks D. Xebec, kaido, big mom and rocks pirates were not evil...

When Kaido mentioned 5 ppl who can beat me: Rox, Oden, Roger, WB, Shanks and Luffy
4 out of 6 were good, so this proves tht the rest two rox and shanks r not evil and disproves every shanks villian theory.

Also Kaido lived his life to be killed by 2nd JoyBoy aka luffy...
Big Mom Just wanted all creatures to live in happiness and harmony n joy in totto land...
Both kaido and big mom know something abt joyboy and it was passed from rox...

[azure sentinel]

iirc there was this theory that the one piece was in enies lobby, was this theory proved wrong?

[fresh isle]

in your opinion Yuderon's theories are good?

[vital sierra]

Justs a theory but what if some zoan type devil fruits have life? I got this theory while reading Chapter 1094 when Jay Garcia says "I almost can't remember the last time I came to the surface". I also agree with the theory of the Gorosei being alive for 800 years and them participating in the fight between 20 nations vs Joyboy. That leads to a theory of the gorosei being experienced and strong figthers. Since Jay Garcia's been allegedly alive for 800 years and being "on the surface", Jay Garcia's been possessed by its own devil fruit and turned into what we know - a ushi-oni.

If this was to be true, I'd lead this to both Joyboy's kingdom (Ancient Kingdom) and the 20 nations to have these ridiculous devil fruits and the Gorosei being nothing but underdogs of the nations and most likely, most soldiers in the nation and ancient kingdom had this power. The Gorosei probably was used on the surgery of the Ope Ope No Mi since they were probably the last survivors of the fight - while being brutally wounded.

[tepid heron]

Guys, i think this guy is coocking something...not about the paw para fruit, but it is true a ship can "eat" a devil fruit. We see objets eat devil fruit in the past, so this is possible

[magic echo]

I don’t think the Rocks pirates were evil but I do think both bigmom and kaido had insane falls from grace because their ambitions led them down the pathways of genocide and abuse.

Big mom started killing her own children, destabilizing her own island, and compromising her own information networks.

Kaido used slavery and war crimes to create a stronghold and gain power.

I actually think Rocks was a revolutionary before the revolutionary army because all his commanders were low-key fighting oppression in their youth.
Big mom was too big, so she was abused and kicked out of human spaces and ended up on Elbaf as a child.

Whitebeard was fighting the World government to attempt to secure safety for his home island.

Kaido lived in wartime and was always fighting the government.

[desert notch]

middleway has fire theories. also his twitter is great too

[tepid heron]

Yeah? Well, i gonna follow him then

[strong flower]

BRO... it was fated n also tht was past... not when he joined rox

[desert notch]

correlation =/= causation.
just because all of those people are strong and 2/3 of them are confirmed to be good doesn't mean all of them will be good. kaido was talking about their strenght,and the moral compass of a character has nothing to do with their strenght in one piece

[magic echo]

What are you referring too? there is a lot of stuff in my message.

[magic echo]

Rip twitter i miss that place

[strong flower]

BUT ALL R RELATED TO JOYBOY...

Roger knows truth
Wb knows will of D n follows luffy
oden knows the truth
shanks was in rogers crew n was passed somthing from roger including hat
luffy aka joyboy is connected to all

rox hates celestial dragons just like revol army n kept them as slaves in god valley UNO REVS

[strong flower]

BIG MOm destry elbaph at small but tht was b4 joining rox
same 4 kaido rampaging places b4 joining rox pirates

[strong flower]

N WorGov sent garp but was fated to meet roger to bring them down

[magic echo]

O, i’m not directly disagreeing with you. I was expanding on shit.

Big mom did that shit as a kid, yeah she was rowdy and swallowed people whole lmao, but as she matured she had noble intentions due to her being some genetic monster.

I honestly don’t remember if kaido rampaged as a kid. I know he was purposefully captured multiple times so that he could eat and survive but he was also a freedom fighter cause his island was in a never ending war.

[oblique isle]

I literally don't watch any one piece YouTube videos? Esp ohara ...

[strong flower]

Garp thought Rox was a threat to world gov
Roger thought rox was a threat to next joyboy coming after 20 yrs

COM ON ROGER HATES CELEST DRAGONS N HAD TO DO IT FOR FUTURE GENERZ

[magic echo]

Ohara has honestly soiled the treasure trove of one piece theories by releasing fake garbage on a daily basis and pretending he speaks Japanese.

[oblique isle]

Damn lol harsh. It is funny tho when ever I have watched a YouTube video form time to time like anyone's I feel like they get there ideas from our conversations on here Lurkers!

[past yacht]

Cute theory

[pure raven]

Garp is much more Marine than he is a supporter of the World Gov. He dislikes Clestial Dragons and the concept of World Gov. he might did it on an order of the World Gov. but he usually acts on his own accord on what is best for the Marines, why he took in Koby and Helmeppo.

[pure raven]

I do not think Oden could have killed or beat Kaido, aside from him, giving Kaido some scars.

[inland cobalt]

For clarification this isn’t Artur ? But the other Ohara dude ?

Because artur seems super legit to me

[dire flint]

Xebec is actually the father of shanks, and shanks mother is the daughter of garling, head of the figurland family and ex-leader of the island god valley. When garling found out about his daughter having a child with a pirate like xebec he planned to kill the child, but since his daughter was still pregnant he waited till the child was born to do the deed. This gave xebec enough time to gather the strongest people he could find such as Kaido, big mom, and whitebeard and head to god valley in efforts to save his child. In the end xebec wasn’t able to safely escape god valley with his child, but managed to put him in a treasure chest, where Roger and his crew found him.

[oblique isle]

He's like European right?

[inland cobalt]

I think so

[oblique isle]

It's not that just usually I don't like full on theory's if anything I like theory's
on YouTuber where people kinda just export there thoughts less than five a full explanation I guess. I think Artur tho did the big joy boy theory like three years ago right?

[inland cobalt]

Yeah

More so he seems to actually know Japanese but as a lay person I can’t completely confirm.

[slim seal]

I think he just released his part two of that big joyboy theory

[inland cobalt]

He’s going too in a few days iirc

[cerulean mantle]

Will egghead be another devil fruit awakening for brook, robin or chopper?

[magic echo]

Honestly I don’t remember I think you need a role or to be verified or something.
It may be in the pinned messages or the rules

[iron zephyr]

I've been rereading the manga this last couple months and it was never revealed but also not brought up either, but is it possible Kiado is a D member?

[shut heath]

So, small note I wanted to make on the most recent chapter:

The Fellow with the Seashell hammer has what looks to be a Sea Otter Zoan ability. After doing some research, I have found that Sea Otters share a family taxonomy with Badgers, Minks (the irl ones), Weasels, and Wolverines.

Therefore, since there are multiple animals that share the same characteristics, I'd like to propose the idea that the aforementioned Vice Admiral's ability may be aptly named the Weasel-Weasel Fruit, Model: Sea Otter.

Because let's be honest, if it was just the Otter-Otter Fruit, that'd be pretty bland.

Japanese name of the Fruit can be the Tachi-Tachi no Mi, Model: Rakko (Rakko being the romanized version of the Japanese term for Sea Otters, and Tachi being derived from Itachi, the romanization of the Japanese word for weasels.)

[left phoenix]

Cool theory. I like it

[shut heath]

Listen I just like Devil Fruits. It's a fun power system, but it also has some interesting connotations sometimes when it comes to the Fruit names and to attacks that some folks use. It's why I've always liked Mythical Zoans and Logias in general too, the former being full of possibilities based on a variety of cultures, and the latter having some interesting real-world scientific basis for ability applications.

For instance, a long-running theory I always had was that, if there was a Tar Logia, a user of that fruit could actually harden their body to a degree surpassing diamond, as Tar is basically just liquid Carbon that comes from the remains of animals that died long long ago and were buried for centuries and eons.

Now given the fact we have Karasu with his Soot-Soot fruit powers, that application can extend to him, as Soot is just carbon dust, and he already shows some applications of it by allowing himself to be light enough to practically just float in the air.

Carbon can come in many forms based on density and atomic structure. Pencil Graphite and Carbon fiber are basically the same, the only difference is just the atomic structure and how it's built. (Graphite is brittle, and its structure is that of "sheets" of atoms that are loosely bound together. Carbon fiber and diamond however, have dense, even lattice structures with strong bonds that make them extremely durable.)

[left phoenix]

Gorosei I think have these mythical zoans series: Saturn has Ushi-Ushi no Mi series (or possibly Kumo-Kumo no Mi series), Ju Peter I think has Sara-Sara no Mi series, Mars has a Tori-tori no Mi series, Nasajuro has like a Hito-Hito no Mi series, and Warcury has a Uma-Uma no Mi series (or Zou-Zou no Mi series) [Warcury is hardest beast-type to make out].

[bitter galleon]

idk if anyone said this already but i think it'd be cool if the five elders had demonic devil fruits, smth like hitto hitto no mi model Lucifer Beelzebud Asmodeus Belial etc

[pure raven]

It is not confirmed in any ways that all of them are Zoans. You could argue that given alll the Gorosai are Zoans you would assume that Imu gave the DF to them, due to them beiing handpicked users.
Also this theory stands and falls by the Gorosai being all Zoan, imagine, them being Logia or Paramecia, this theory would fall.

[left phoenix]

I never said it was confirmed. This is a theory channel for theories. That is my theory. Thank you.

[pure raven]

I can see that.
Most of the the theories in here are based on manga chapters and a good amount of them are getting deleted.

I do not think that your theory is based on nothing but it is kinda weak. A lot of theories in here are based on previous chapters, so you have some sort of confirmation. I just do not feel like your theory is much based on actual canon but head canon.

[pure raven]

Thank you for your agreement.

[brazen fiber]

Does anyone know why the gorosei's eyes gain another circle when they transform?

[drifting nymph]

If y’all remember correctly it was said that something would happen that would change the world of one piece in egghead will that never actually until now I think kizaru will fail to complete the mission and Saturn will kill kizaru and frame it on Luffy there by changing the world and letting people to believe that Luffy is the villain 👹hahahahahahah

[magic echo]

I think he’s like a failed joyboy candidate or something. Not a D

[iron zephyr]

It would be interesting if the Red strip around Luffys hat represents the red line

[iron zephyr]

ok yeah I was just speculating.

[magic echo]

Ok but where are bonnies Bear ears

[rapid carbon]

I’m not sure what it means but oda is from Kumamoto Japan . Kumamoto literally translates to original of the bear. Just thought I’d throw that out there. Kuma is super relevant

[vital sierra]

imagine the one piece was luffy 💀 also solo levelling cool

[vital sierra]

cant believe kiado lost to luffy

[blazing oracle]

so which theories is so far was guessed right?

[dark hollow]

based on saturn's DF, has someone made the most possible theory of what other 4 elders have? Can someone send a link?

[strong flower]

broo...

[halcyon tusk]

Monkey D. Dragon ate the "Twister-Twister Fruit" ("Tatsu Tatsu no Mi"), a Logia type Devil Fruit that allows the him to create, control, and become a tornado or a storm.

Here are the key points that support this theory:

1. Unusual Weather Phenomena: Whenever Dragon has appeared in the series, he's often surrounded by peculiar weather occurrences, including heavy winds, rain, and thunderstorms. This consistent pattern suggests that these weather events may not be coincidental, but rather a result of Dragon's own abilities.

2. Logia Type Suitability: A Logia type Devil Fruit, which allows the user to create, control, and transform into a natural element or force of nature, would be fitting for the weather phenomena observed around Dragon. A tornado or storm, composed of wind, could fit into this category.

3. Dragon's Role and Power: As the leader of the Revolutionary Army, Dragon is one of the most influential characters in the One Piece world. It would make sense for him to possess a powerful Devil Fruit ability. A Logia type Devil Fruit, considered the most powerful type, would align with his status.

4. Narrative Hints: Eiichiro Oda is known for his foreshadowing and intricate plot details. The consistent association of Dragon with distinct weather patterns could be a narrative hint towards his potential powers.

[uncut widget]

I've been thinking about the theory of Imu DF being umibōzu, could it be the monster in florian triangle actually Imu in his DF form?

[oblique isle]

There was like more than one tho right?

[uncut widget]

at the end of thriller bark only 1 pair of eyes were shown, maybe it actually just one huge creature, but idk lol

[uncut widget]

and florian triangle were not that far from maryjoise anyway

[oblique isle]

Only one pair of eyes but three similar shadows. Could be all one but maybe possible three

Bigger question is why would Imu be any where but the holy land

[left phoenix]

Personally I just think the tease of the silhouettes at the end of thriller bark will never be explained (it's basically the Bermuda triangle and supposed to be mysterious). Looking back on the series, Oda put a lot of Yokai and japanese mythology in the story, so it wouldn't surprise me if he just wanted to add the reference of Umi bozu and have it unrelated to story or Imu. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[young oyster]

I have a theory about luffy getting a temporary power-up with bonney aging fruit meaning she could get him to his 25 or 30s to make him stronger cause rn he needs to fight saturn and kizaru so with ageing he might stand a chance against those two

[plain yarrow]

Facts, as obviously amazing of a writer as Oda is people give him too much credit with the foreshadowing sometimes. Not every little detail is setup

[inland cobalt]

he's already in his prime pretty much aging him wouldn't really help

[thin yacht]

Ghoul theory. Luffy is a ghoul. Change my mind.

[wary nymph]

Saturn will probably die this arc, if anyone wonders why ask me

[tame walrus]

interesting... i was reading into roc mythology for a bit (beasts, alongside a lot of yokai ones cuz of the gorosei reveal), and i kinda remember how rocks d. xebec's jolly roger resembles a roc's skull, plus the talk here related to sinbad and how they took his egg by mistake, so maybe roger's crew took the egg by mistake and it is what we wonder about... additionally rocks' fruit could be tori tori model roc, yet another mythical zoan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roc_(mythology)

[wary nymph]

Are there any other parallels between simbad and roger

[inland cobalt]

It really doesn't tbh, it's a humanoid head with horns not a bird skull

[tame walrus]

not that i notice anything concrete, except both being hardcore explorers/adventurers... and not that i absolutely think xebec will be a roc or have extreme faith in what i said

[chrome bison]

When we see the sky in one piece it shows only one moon, but in this system it shows that there are at least 6 „moons“ or planets around the one piece world .. what if the 5 elder „planets“ were those planets to begin with but Imu somehow turned them human or summoned them 800 years ago

[strong flower]

bro...
Garp hates celestial dragons so much tht he will kill them too. World gov forgives him everytime he talks hatingly abt celestial dragons.

Roger on the other hand hates BOTH marines and celestial dragons. He had to team up Garp just cuz he saw Rox as a threat. WHY WOULD ROGER GO HELP MARINES FOR NO REASON? OR GARP BEGGING ROGER TO HELP HIM :v

[left phoenix]

The one nearest to the left is probably the actual moon that we can see in all of OP. The other 5 satellites (one of them has a moon) may be planets or moons that are not regularly visible. 2 satellites also share the same orbit. Not sure if it relates to the Gorosei or Vegapunk but interesting stuff and I hope we can get more lore info regardless.

[frail rose]

i've heard the theory that the world government destroyed the other moons, and then the rocks from the destroyed moons were formed into the red line. Remember that imu refers to the world as his "creation"

[inner cargo]

Found a theory that makes me wonder about if the Gorosei had a hand in Roger’s development of his disease he developed during his travels.

With Saturn’s reveal and thoughts of his DF or abilities relating to the Ushi Oni.

Looking back towards its Japanese myth of origin, an Ushi Oni that lived in a cave near a Lord’s castle was shot at by it, and in retaliation, the monster cursed the lord’s wife with an incurable illness, driving him away from his wife and eventually leading to his ruin.

What if in the same way, the Gorosei were made aware of Roger’s true purpose in obtaining the One Piece, and to prevent him from fully realizing the dream, Saturn infected him with a virus that would kill him. This would forever silence him and ensure the World Government’s unlimited power wouldn’t be threatened, and Joy Boy’s nature delayed (or in their minds, hopefully buried forever with the secrets of the Lost Century)

[hallow bear]

I don't think the fruit gives you any added strength or stronger haki i think it just keep everything the same aside form the age of your body

[hardy trench]

Bonney bulked up and grew physically stronger when she aged herself up trying to kill vegapunk

[delicate cairn]

i have thought that before and maybe imu is there because the frozen giant hat belongs to the frozen oars on thriller bark

[frail yacht]

can't seem to remember this, do you have any panel to show?

[pure raven]

nah nah its the hat of the original joyboy and he was from elbaf so hes a giant so a giant hat right??

[vocal heron]

@weak arrow he posted this in almost every channel

[light iris]

Bonnie half sister of luffy? they share so same characteristics. Same mother?

[delicate cairn]

oars was a giant

[pure raven]

but the hat originally belonged to joyboy there is fanart and all that stuff

[oblique isle]

So your saying he fed them hito hito fruits?

[dark cedar]

What chapter was that said/implied?

[median apex]

My theory is bonnie got ass

[proven kiln]

where is teh new episode out ?

[young oyster]

Nami usopp franky jinbei and brook last name haven't been revealed yet do you think oda might start revealing them as we reaching the end ?

[pure raven]

Hmm but the episode prooved it but we still don't know the history of oars so it could be 50/50

[dark cedar]

I'd like to see the proof

[pure raven]

I can't send pics of Manga proof tho

[obtuse arch]

ONE PIECE IS MID AF

[pure raven]

Stfu 9 year old why u come here if u don't like one pice

[obtuse arch]

TO ANOY YALL BITCH

[pure raven]

The one piece is luffy's mom

[inland cobalt]

i mean maybe it just got broken ?

[strong flower]

NEFERTARI D LILI IS NOT IMU STOP
SHANKS IS NOT SON OF ROCKS
DRAGON IS NOT EVIL
NOR IS SHANKS AGAIN

LAUGHTALE DIDNT EAT A DEVIL FRUIT
NOR IT IS ON THE MOON
ROGER = GARP = WHITEBEARD = SENGOKU
SOGEKING WASNT USSOP

[hallow bear]

Only those top 2 things Nd that last one can be confirmed, as for laugh tale, I think its an big island turtle similar to zunesha carrying the ancient city, it'll allow for luffy to locate the worlds big treasure, become king of the pirates, let Robin learn all she can, they've probably got what chopper and nami need for their dreams as well

[inland cobalt]

I seriously doubt laughtale can move since the way to locate it is a coordinate system

[tepid heron]

Dunno if someone say so yet, but thinking about demons one thing that is common in they nature is make deals with people. Now, i was thinking about the scene of Saturn blowing the head of a poor unfortunate soul and then thinking in the reason for why the Marines didnt take the total control of the World and try to defeat the Gorosei and then the Celestial Dragons. They dont know about Imu, thats for sure, but they see to know that the Gorosei are strong. At least the high ranks like Vice Admirals. So, maybe they know about info.

So, what if the Gorosei, demons, make some kind of deals with the Marines, all the Marines, the "concept" of Marines, to "kill them" if they try to revels against them. Like, even Admirals can be killed by them if they try to take over them or something like that. This because of the deal. Thats mean is impossible for the Marines to defeat the Gorosei and Celestials Dragons, because they already lose if they try...

Then again, the problem with this theory is that Kuzan is there and his head didnt explode when he left the Marines. Maybe they will do it if he try something against them? Or they lose this power because Kuzan is not longer a "Marine", so the deals dont apply to him.

Is that the case, with leaving the Marines is enough to try to defeat them. But thats is easily a plot hole...dunno, just a theory

[primal axle]

Does anyone agree with me that the current situation at egghead seems a little too much like sabaody archipelago?

At Sabaody the main enemies were angry celestial dragons (not much of a threat to the straw hats) , Bartholomew Kuma and Kizaru. At egghead, its a giant army of marines, saint Saturn in awakened bull spider form(lol), Kizaru, and the potential risk of vegapunk Stella dieing and the possibility of Blackbeard coming to egghead. This is too much danger for the straw hats as if it’s sabaody V2.

[pure raven]

I think Wano was more dangerous tbh

[ashen surge]

This isn’t necessarily the right channel to discuss power scaling but keep in mind that it doesnt have to make sense ”in the story” because the power creep is necessary for the continuation of the story

[fallow bobcat]

Ranks in the navy are dependent on strength, ranks in the government are not

[steady prism]

@earnest spoke let’s avoid powerscaling topics here please. Feel free to bring it up in #manga

[pure raven]

Can I repost a theory that was posted on reddit a bit over a year ago for people to bring a fresh look to it and comment on it with the knowledge we gained over the year that passed?

[steady prism]

Sure, sharing a link to a theory is fine. All we ask is you provide a short summary (4-5 sentences) of the original theory so people know what they’re about to click. If you want to add your commentary to it, that’s fine too

[pure raven]

This theory is long so i added a TLDR at the end don't worry.

We'll talk about souls, devil fruits, Adam and Eve(the trees), Luffy's devil fruit, the moon, Im, Ener, Celestial dragons, Blackbeard, Rocks, Laughtale etc.

If only some parts interest you you can obviously skip the others but they are all linked together.
I added a TDLR after each part too to make it easier to read.

(Kept this paragraph in 1st person because it was posted by my brothers and I)

(Sorry, we wrote Ener instead of Enel cause that's how it's spelled in our native language)

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/w2ragh/the_truth_behind_devil_fruits_ener_im_and_the_moon/

[steady prism]

Yeah I get it, but the summary is for here. It doesn’t have to cover everything, it can just be an introduction so you could give the premise of the theory and a few pieces of evidence/reasoning.

[pure raven]

alright i'll just post the TLDR that we wrote at the end then

TLDR :

-The world of One Piece is artifical, created by the Ancient Weapons, and is a plot by Im and the WG to sap the world's soul power through the tree Eve and the devil fruits.

-Eve and Adam are recreations of the Tree of Knowledge, and the Tree of Life that existed on the Moon before, and that led to the destruction of the Moon's civilisation.

-The Moonfolk emigrated on Earth, the ancient kingdom was built.

-Joyboy started an uprising with the help of the ancient kingdom and oppressed races, but failed to take down the WG and break the Red line.

-There are three divine fruits that carry a specific will for the world : Luffy's, Sengoku's and Ener's, that all need to take part in the war.

-Roger learned about ancient history and started the chase for the One Piece in order for the WG to fall. He saw Joyboy's story on Laugh Tale, to the tune of Bink's sake.

-Rocks' tried to do the same thing, but through wicked ways, and Blackbeard carries the exact same will and will need to be stopped.

• If you want more, read above.

If you find anything to have been disproven over the last year, please point it out, that's mostly why i'm reposting this

[halcyon tusk]

Theory: Monkey D. Dragon has a history deeply intertwined with the God Valley incident. He is the son of Garp and a Celestial Dragon. Their illicit relationship was exposed, compelling Garp, who had begun to harbor resentment towards the Celestial Dragons, to whisk away his son Dragon, a newly enlisted marine. All this taking place on God Valley the day before the Incident.

During the Rocks' attack on God Valley, Garp found himself in a difficult position. His now ex was in danger, and despite his growing disdain for the Celestial Dragons, he allied with Roger to protect them. Although Dragon's mother was involved in the incident, Dragon was not present.

The plot thickens following the birth of Luffy, when Dragon's wife, an estranged Celestial Dragon, was discovered and executed. This tragic event proved to be a breaking point for both Garp and Dragon. While Garp managed to suppress his feelings, Dragon could not stand by and chose to defect.

Dragon's exceptional skills had earned him the rank of Admiral, bringing us to the crucial aspect of Devil Fruit powers. As part of his promotion, he was presented with the Tatsu-Tatsu no Mi.(Twister-Twister Fruit)However, Dragon identified it as the Mythical Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Indra. His plan was to consume this Devil Fruit power after discovering it via Vegapunk. This aligns with the weather anomalies that accompany Dragon's appearances, which suggest the ability to control weather elements akin to Indra, the God of Storms.

Consuming this particular Devil Fruit would enable Dragon to fulfill the prophecy of the "D", bringing a storm upon the Celestial Dragons. Thus, this theory weaves a narrative of love, duty, and sacrifice, linking Dragon's character, the God Valley incident, and the prophecy of the "D" through his potential Devil Fruit power.

[pure raven]

What do you think the prophecy of D would be, because i feel like it's growing more and more obvious that D stands for death, and that the will of D is to bring an end to the celestial dragons' immortality
Most of the things hinting towards that idea appearing during the Lili revelations when Sabo is sneaking around the Reverie

[halcyon tusk]

perhaps, or maybe the simple answer has always been the correct one and the D stands for more than one thing. Meaning it could be; “Death”, “Devil”, “Destruction”, “Dawn”, Dream, “Destiny”, and Demon” all at once with no one being more appropriate than any other nor less.

[pure raven]

But fr please check out the theory above, it took a lot of thinking, a lot of talking, a lot of writing and a lot of searching for small hints and dialogue in manga panels so i'd really appreciate some thoughts on wether it still holds together after a year or if it has become hot garbage 🔥

[primal axle]

Ohh

[wooden breach]

the younger version of Saint figarland really resembles shanks, could gamble that he's his dad tbh

[remote coral]

In that case, nami has a lot of sisters around the one piece world

[hearty turtle]

invankov is franky's dad

[hard bramble]

Vegapunk: Why yes, I clone people...why do you ask?

[gaunt charm]

The most recent chapter has really cemented a lil theory that has been brewing in my mind for a while; namely that the Iron Giant was summoned by the fishmen who were playing the drums of liberation themselves, as a cry for help. That's why it attacked Maryjois and then ran out of energy, likely because the fishmen were killed for making noise.

[tawdry berry]

I feel like the D really means Dawn like what everyone is assuming. I think it has something to do with the idiom "A new dawn" as in like "A new beginning" since everyone in One Piece seems to be oppressed by the Celestial Dragons and the World Government and they are in dire need of liberation and that is where Luffy's Nika comes in with the "Liberation drums" and all.

[wheat skiff]

What specifically in that chapter has confirmed for you the connection between the Robot and Fishmen ?

[gaunt charm]

It's how the drums of liberation got passed down the buccaneer people, so considering that joy boy was an ally to the fishmen in particular it makes sense that they'd know that too.

That theory has been brewing in my mind for a while haha

[hearty turtle]

anyone know why Oda name them buccaneers what real life lore it would relate to? i looked them up on wikipedia but didn't see any connections

[wanton ledge]

I'm thinking the word buccaneer, which is of French and Caribbean origin, is another name for a pirate, which is fitting since One Piece is literally about pirates and their adventures

[median onyx]

Hm... is Bonney really Kuma's biological daughter? Saturn's reaction to Bonney talking about her dad as well as explicitly calling the buccaneer race extinct are giving me some doubts

[pure raven]

Could very well be a clone of that girl we see in the latest chapter that Kuma asked Vegapunk to make

[lilac zodiac]

Timeskip incoming

[hallow bear]

Idk bro depends on genetics

[novel scroll]

Jinny is definitely Bonney's Mom.

Their name is similar and Oda introduced Jinny eating meat, the same way he introduced Bonney. Showing both are glutton.

No, she is not Crocodile.

[jagged hemlock]

Was thinking of a theory, i dont know if i know enough to make it make sense, was wondering if there is a possibility where Dragon was present in the God Valley incident as a marine to befriend ivankov and kuma. Witness what happened at the God Valley Incident and how his father was fighting for the world nobles while they were planning a purging event and feeling enraged about the marines protecting such evil. Akainu being the same age as Dragon watched his peer leaving the marine and thus have a hatred towards him and thus Luffy.

Edit: i just noticed many have posted about a theory like this, just curious to see how many people have kinda pick up on the same vibe

[pure raven]

My theory is that jinny the slave is actually inazuma the scissors fruit user from impel down arc

[wanton aurora]

So the D. stands for "Dondo-to-to"

[inland cobalt]

The motherhood thing is an insane stretch ngl it’s applicable to maybe 4/10 ? Most of them either A have moms just not important to their stories like jimbei or zoro or the mother figure is just alive like franky or Chopper.

[patent sail]

Now that we got a lineage of Nika in the story I wonder if whoever had this strawhat was one of them. Keyword here is “blood of giants”.

[distant sorrel]

I saw stuff for lucky roux or luffys mom

[inland cobalt]

Why would it be lucky roux

[distant sorrel]

The theory I saw was because of 3 reasons, gin and lucky roux are both alcohols, they were both introduced eating meat on a stick, they have similar shoes, also the ages line up. (I do not believe this theory in just putting it out there)

[faint spindle]

My theory is simple, Ginny eats meat, Ginny is related to Luffy.

[distant sorrel]

Real

[median onyx]

Possibly. I'm just saying we've seen buccaneer passed down already and Bonney doesn't seem to be any % buccaneer.

[inland cobalt]

It’s probably a recessive gene

[wispy maple]

How do I instantly love Ginny?

[inland cobalt]

the dichotomy between the awful stuff happening in the previous few pages contrasted to their upbeat attitudes

[hallow bear]

I mean there was a 50/50 chance so

[bitter condor]

Throwing this out there:
The song being sung on page 13, bottom-right panel, are the true lyrics to Bink's Sake. Can someone who can compare the original japanese to see if it could be sung like that?
(Ie. Dondo-to-to has been passed down as "Yoho-hoho")
Nvm, wrong channel.

[inland cobalt]

25/75* Kuma is only half

[tall hatch]

She's only 25% buccaneer which means only half of that (12.5%)is actual giant blood

[hallow bear]

Nah, I did the math, if you remember biology then you'll know that kumas genetics are whats known as heterozygous and we can assume the mother is most likely fully human, put that into a punnet square and its a 50% heterozygous and 50% homozygous human (don't ask why i remember this shit i just do)

[warm umbra]

because she's luffys mom and they're basically identical 😄

[autumn grove]

I REALLY doubt kizaru went all out vs Luffy, I'm calling it now.

Kizaru just dicked around so he wouldn't have to actually kill vegapunk and luffy exhausted himself and kizaru pretended like that one punch hurt.

If kizaru is legit out of order after that ''fight'' I fear oda is gonna try to skip or at least not make the admirals a major enemy.

[median onyx]

Also suspect that's not what actually makes a buccaneer, or at least that's not the only factor. We already had human/giant hybrids in the Franky family. They were just smaller giants

[rapid carbon]

Is it possible rocks was a cd that got power hungry after eating a devil fruit . Like at first he wanted to go after cd only and then when he wanted to go after the world Roger and garp stepped in

[glossy sable]

how many people have posted about whitebeard being the same race as kuma?

they have the same face shape, same mouth, body types are basically the same throughout both of their lives, they also both came from the "scraps", I guess you could say

example image

[last moon]

I don't find it likely that Xebec wanted to go to God Valley solely to free those taken captive. Perhaps God Valley held a huge stockpile of devil fruits they forcefed the slaves/gladiators to make them stronger and give them a better chance in fights, and Xebec wanted to steal the stockpile to make his crew unstoppable, an ambition that may have been passed onto BB. Kuma was forced to eat his Nikyu Nikyu No Mi, Ivankov ate the Horu Horu no Mi... and possibly Boa Hancock was forced to eat the Meo Mero no Mi many years later when it came time for her colosseum fight. The gladiator fight could've also inspired the one in Dressrosa, as made by the mad king because he just couldn't wait three years to mess with islands, or wasn't allowed to participate and that's what lead to the enslavement of the dwarves in the first place.

Yes?

[halcyon tusk]

this actually makes a lot of sense. I can explain

[wheat skiff]

Go on

[spice path]

ginny is luffy's mom possibly bc shes related to ivankov directly and ivanokov met dragon https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/862518790964903947.webp?size=64&name=PsyduckShocked&quality=lossless

nvm its prob bonneys mom

[halcyon tusk]

In the current state of the One Piece Manga, a timeskip is a sensible narrative decision. The world is teetering on the brink of chaos, and the Straw Hat crew is not yet ready for the imminent conflicts.

Luffy’s recent triumph over Kaido in Wano Kuni has elevated him to the status of an Emperor of the New World. This newfound status not only brings a significant shift in power dynamics but also places immense pressure on the crew, which will require time to adapt and grow.

Simultaneously, Sabo is waging war against the Celestial Dragons at Maryjoise, and Blackbeard, having defeated Trafalgar D Water Law, now potentially possesses three of the four Road Ponegliff rubbings. Blackbeard’s growing power and knowledge pose a significant threat that the Straw Hats will need to prepare for.

In addition, Garp's conflict on Beehive Island with Kuzan, which resulted in an unclear status for Garp, raises further tensions. The devastating loss of Kidd and his crew on Elbaf at the hands of Red-Haired Shanks also underscores the escalating stakes.

Imu's recent order to destroy Lalucia, where Sabo was suspected to have escaped, reveals a powerful weapon in his arsenal, further heightening the danger. The situation on Egghead Island is equally precarious, with Luffy and Kizaru both down and one of the Gorosei, Saturn, in a formidable Zoan form.

Given these circumstances, it is imperative that the Straw Hat crew, including Princess Nefertari D Vivi, master at least one form of Haki. Therefore, a timeskip would allow the crew the necessary time to train and strengthen, as well as provide an opportunity to explore the impact of their new status on the dynamics aboard the Thousand Sunny. The Straw Hats are on the cusp of a tumultuous period, and a timeskip would be an effective tool to usher in this new era.

[spice path]

yeah like they have time to train when imu and the 5 elders could 👏 them

[halcyon tusk]

they have to know where they are first. kuma can send the entire ship with crew on board to any location he chooses

I’m only talking about like maybe six months

[spice path]

i meann ig and also kuma can use his power to escape geoise

[halcyon tusk]

it would be interesting if Kuma sends them all the way back to east blue and luffy goes through it all again picking everyone up along the way

[spice path]

nah; sending to elbaf would be cooler

[wheat skiff]

Maybe the incident then means the disappearance of Straw Hat crew ?

But this time it's not all of them getting separated but rather everyone, including whoever is left out of Vegapunk entourage

[halcyon tusk]

Luffy gets Captured and everyone comes to save him

[spare meadow]

Since we're seeing young Ivankov now, maybe we'll finally get to see Crocodile's past, and since Whitebeard shows up at God Valley, maybe how they're connected as well.

or we could just say that ginny is crocodile ( )

[lilac zodiac]

Not only a time skip I believe when they come back we would be at the end or the lead up to that

[pure raven]

I'm posting what I posted on Reddit

[iron zephyr]

m etoo

dragon was 33 not 53 lol it was ohara incident when bonney was born

[hearty sedge]

I like that idea, he wanted something on that island. We are still missing one poneglyph though. Keep one behind and to stop any would be pirate kings

[weak nebula]

Random theory: assuming Bonney is a child, Bonney will be to Luffy what Shanks was to Roger

[hallow epoch]

I CAN BET YOUR ASS, that GINNY is LUFFY's mother.

Eating meat with that cracked up face? Come on bruh. Next to ivankov? Potentially close to Dragon?

Unless she's Kuma's future-wife and bonney's mother.

[pure raven]

THEORY

People think that either Ginny is Bonney's mom or Luffy's mom. I've concluded she's both and Dragon is Bonney's real father.

We have all known that and seen throughout the story that Kuma is willing to sacrifice and do anything for the Strawhats repeatedly because of his dedication to Dragon.

In Revolutionary flashbacks there's always a woman in the background as seen here:

https://i.imgur.com/6Ejo45w.png

Luffy didn't even know his father was Dragon until after Enies Lobby. It's like his true parentage has always been hidden to him.

Perhaps, for some reason, due to Dragon's notoriety, they split the two siblings up and Kuma, in a sacrifice for Dragon, acted as Bonney's father when he really wasn't. This entire thing is so Star Wars like that I wouldn't be surprised if Bonney is in a Princess Leia situation where she was raised by adoptive parents for her own safety.

The one crack in this theory's armor is that Kuma being an adoptive father isn't as safe Princess Leia being adopted by a family of royalty on Alderaan. Perhaps they felt Bonney would be most safe in a royal environment and it just didn't work out that way.

TLDR Dragon and Ginny are the parents to both Luffy and Bonney and they are siblings.

[echo needle]

Love the theory. Although I would feel weird if Dragon knew Jinny since she was a child and he was 17.

[carmine moon]

Ivankov was 15 in God Valley, so maybe Jinny wasn't far off from that

[last bramble]

As someone who has been reading One Piece for 20 years, it's wild seeing all the developments in the last year that haven't necessarily "broken" the story, but have changed some fundamental things we thought we knew or understood about the world. Recently, things like Vegapunk mentioning that Fruits are born of dreams, and now, with Saturn's "fruit" revealed, we see other powers never imagined before. WIth the confirmation of gods and demons and monsters existing in some a capacity (we don't know if Sun God Nika was the name of a mortal who took on the mantle of a god due to his power, or if it was just Joy Boy in general) but it got me thinking about Zoro's ability. My dude, through sheer force of will, can make two faces and four more arms appear on his body. Is Zoro going to break down the barries on his "dreams" and literally seize them to become something akin to a God in the form of Ashura? Like the actual King of Hell? Is he basically, slowls, manifesting or becoming a god/devil? Is his progression a hit at how devil fruits are formed?

We have ZERO other instances of a character believing in themselves so hard that they warp reality around themselves in a nonhaki way, but Zoro legit, through his "will" or "aura" alone has changed his physical body. People have called it just an illusion, but that illusion seems to make him more powerful. It seems to physically give him more arms and swords, and thus more power. Is he eventually going to BECOME Ashura in the way Luffy is Nika?

Will his will manifest a devil fruit somewhere on that big tree of devil fruits that might exist? Will he eat it if it does? Will someone else? Idk, just conceptualizing some thoughts I've had now after so many serious revelations on the deeper plot/history that have been revealed recently. With some people speculating that Saturn's power isn't even a fruit and he is actually just a monster (I still think it's a fruit), maybe people can BECOME the monsters they want to be.

[median onyx]

I think people put too much stock into Vegapunks dreams line. I don't read it as literally peoples dreams so much as the dreams of people lead them to take actions that created devil fruits.

Similar to people's dreams of flight led to creation of planes

[carmine moon]

I liked the idea that Vegapunk's theory was correct. Devil fruits aren't actually supposed to be called devil fruits but it was the name given by WG, they are in reality dream fruits. WG wanted to call them devil fruits so it would scare people from using them

[pure raven]

i wanted to suggest that ju peter's fruit could be the umi-bozu from the shillouette we saw and the yokai theming of the 5 elders

[iron zephyr]

Has any figured out the "secret" behind the birth dates of characters?

[loud nimbus]

But isn’t she too young? Dragon during the god valley incident is 17. Ginny looks around 9 or 10.

[pure raven]

That's fair but I think there's also a large possibility that Kuma is just her surrogate father.

I think this twist would also fit the series better because One Piece is a story full of surrogate parents: Garp -> Koby and Helmeppo, Dadan -> Luffy, Oden -> Yamato, Bellemere -> Nami and Nojiko, Whitebeard -> Ace, Doctor Hiriluk -> Chopper, Zeff -> Sanji;etc. it's a story full of parents that aren't their parents by blood or birth to show that sometimes the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. It's a story of inherited will, not through blood but through sharing dreams and promises. So Bonny being Dragon's blood daughter but Kuma being her "real" dad absolutely tracks with the series' themes and messaging.

[fierce patrol]

Shanks being apart of the Figaroand bloodline is pre much confirmed, for one the look newrly identical, both with red hair, shanks has a connection to the gorosei, at 16:40 mark into film red when discussing Uta they mention the possibility of her being apart of the Figarland family

[loud nimbus]

What would her role in the crew be?

[pure raven]

Drummer. Hmm, brook is already musician.

@iron zephyr the point about Ohara and Robin's mom is such a good point and I have no rebuttal to be honest.

[loud nimbus]

Yeah the theory seems to hold some weight

[halcyon tusk]

Blackbeard Zoan DF Theory: The Baku is a creature from Japanese mythology that is said to eat people's nightmares. They are depicted as being a mixture of different animals, with the body of a bear, an elephant's trunk, a tiger's feet, an ox's tail, and the eyes of a rhinoceros.

In terms of Blackbeard's powers, the Baku's ability to devour nightmares could be seen as a parallel to Blackbeard's ability to absorb the powers of other Devil Fruits. The Baku is also known to have a voracious appetite, much like Blackbeard's seemingly endless hunger for power.

Additionally, the Baku is often considered a protective spirit, despite its fearsome appearance and abilities. Similarly, Blackbeard is known for his protective attitude towards his crew, despite his ruthless and cunning nature.

In some stories, if a person calls out to a Baku after having a nightmare, the creature will come and eat the dream, preventing the person from suffering any ill effects. However, if the Baku is still hungry after eating the nightmare, it may also devour the person's hopes and desires. This could parallel Blackbeard's willingness to betray others to further his own ambitions.

Considering these aspects, the Baku could be a fitting symbol for Blackbeard's powers in One Piece, especially if he has indeed acquired a third Devil Fruit ability. It could represent a Zoan-type Devil Fruit power that allows him to "devour" the abilities of others or perhaps even their lifeforce or vitality.

[pure raven]

I think bonny is likely to join but so far I don't have it down as a sure thing

[iron zephyr]

Yeah, she hasn't been in the story too much

[inland cobalt]

The Merrys spirit isn’t in the sunny ? It literally sank the bottom of the ocean.

[inland cobalt]

The Baku is almost certainly one of the Gorosei atm BB could still ig but it’s a good theory.

[inland cobalt]

This just makes no sense to me and has giant leaps in logic. Reading poneglyphs and being a member of O’Hara and clovers student are perfectly fine reasons to show interest. It’s possible her mom was working with the revs tho.

[inland cobalt]

Kuma as an adopted dad makes a ton of sense dragon as the bio dad in that example does not at all. He hid his daughter by saying it’s not me it’s just another high ranking rev also being targeted????? That’s just insane person logic.

[pure raven]

Hmm fair

[inland cobalt]

The simplest explanation is the most likely a new character introduced in the flashback of bonneys dad with a similar name and mannerisms to her ? It’s clearly her mom and Kuma is the dad.

[pure raven]

But Kuma also became a king of a country too despite being a high ranking member of the Revs. So we need to know more about that. Also why would WG allow Kuma to be a Warlord if they knew he was a Rev also? Your rebuttal is easily refuted

[inland cobalt]

They absolutely knew he was a revolutionary they spread lies about him lol.

[pure raven]

I don't remember. It's been a while.

[inland cobalt]

They didn’t know he kept working as a revolutionary as a warlord but how would he get such a high bounty/notoriety as a random king?

[pure raven]

He got a high bounty as a king because he was considered a tyrant. How did he become a king to begin with? We lack too much information on Kuma's backstory. Best to wait for the rest of the flashback.

[inland cobalt]

They would also know who he was as soon as he join the warlords from a blood test.

Sure we don’t have every piece of info but it’s a safe assumption to say he was a target regardless with the whole bounty thing not a safe person to have a kid stay with especially when you have an unfindable island .

[inland cobalt]

I mean yes giant leaps in logic are bad you can disagree you made any but there’s literally 0 argument that giant leaps in logic are good.

[iron zephyr]

I disagree.

[inland cobalt]

Then your either misunderstanding me or just confused there’s literally no reason why a giant leap in logic is ever good. You can say it’s not one that’s subjective but if you say it is one then it’s objectively bad 🤷‍♂️.

Ok then explain it step by step

[spare meadow]

well dragon was 36 when luffy was born so at the lowest of ur guess that would make ginny 28 which could work

[lunar talon]

@iron zephyr I think what Coco is saying is that giant leaps of logic in theory-crafting is nearly comparable to wishful thinking. And due to the nature of this channel (in-depth theories with evidence), "giant leaps of logic" could be interpreted as headcanon and not necessarily theory.

[inland cobalt]

Exactly

[loud nimbus]

But if Ginny was friends with Ivankov wouldn’t he have known about her having a child? So why was he so shocked at him being dragons son

[pure raven]

The fact Luffy wasn't known by even Ivakov lends to my theory. It shows both babies were potentially hidden in a Star Wars kind of way.

[loud nimbus]

But given when he saw Luffy’s appetite which we assume is from Ginny, why didn’t he notice

[pure raven]

Ginny hadn't been introduced as a character yet.

[inland cobalt]

She’s literally eating a piece of meat in her introduction

[spare meadow]

it could've been all kept one big secret, we still dont know what happened, and its just a theory after all, A GAME ONE PIECE THEORY

[loud nimbus]

Still Ivankov after impelndown always brags to dragon how he is so much like his father. What about his mother. I doubt Ginny is Luffy’s mom

[pure raven]

Precisely. I think this was all a secret. No one knew except Kuma, Dragon, and maybe Garp.

[spare meadow]

people say its probably bonney's mother and kuma's wife which is honestly probably the right answer but its still fun to theorize about this luffy stuff

[pure raven]

Bonny literally acts like Luffy and eats like him too. Even Ace had the Monkey appetite so maybe they're siblings in some capacity if it's not blood because Bonny got that Monkey stomach. Something is going on.

[lunar talon]

She definitely is Bonney's mother. It being Luffy's mother makes no sense storyboard-wise. Also Garp wouldn't let his daughter be a slave

[pure raven]

Dragon is Garp's son. This is conclusive. Luffy's monkey genes come from Dragon. Not his mother's

[loud nimbus]

Any theories on why Garp stayed with the marines even though he witnessed the atrocities of the celestial dragons at god valley?

[lunar talon]

Oh right, my bad idk what i was thinking😅

[spare meadow]

ginny is crocodile

[pure raven]

Rocks must have wanted to kill everyone even slaves

[loud nimbus]

They were probably collateral damage

[spare meadow]

(its a big stretch but i see it being a very very small possibility, but its still a stretch nonetheless) but hey, its funny

[pure raven]

@spare meadow congratulations on catching up

[inland cobalt]

https://reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/USYevSdh8l

[pure raven]

Even Luffy's name is similar to Bonny and Jinny.

[spare meadow]

ive been caught up for like more than a month, but thanks, it took me like 11 months

[pure raven]

Nice, nice. I've been reading/watching almost 20 years. It's quite an adventure. Happy to have ya.

[lunar talon]

I'm confused, isn't this just normal Katakana though?

[spare meadow]

oh, thast actually pretty cool, and thanks

[inland cobalt]

Possibly I just thought it seemed interesting but I’m just a dumb American

[lunar talon]

トニートニー is Tony Tony,. I don't think there is any link based off Katakana, that's just how it's written

[steady prism]

@spare meadow hey man, please use #manga or #memes for general memes, not here

[versed hamlet]

no it's not

[pure raven]

Luffy, Ginny, Bonny. Yes it is.

[spare meadow]

sorry i kinda got caught up in the chat

[split cobalt]

I reckon it's either Bonney's mum, Crocodile or maybe even Dragon used to be a woman which would make sense if the three founders of the Revolutionary Army (kuma, ivankov, dragon) were there and I reckon there's a possibility Luffy and Bonney may be siblings

[rapid carbon]

I think rocks WAS a celestial dragon and started killing celestial dragons after killing a ton of slaves . That’s why Roger and Garp team up

[lapis kernel]

With this chapter made me think about why Croco hated WB. Maybe something in God Valley?

[cold wren]

Okay so I theorize that Kuma + Bonney DF can enable people to go back in time. Maybe they both have to be awakened to yk balance it out. I think there will be a use of this cause it makes far too much sense here.

Sending luffy back in time to the void century would make the most sense.
I saw a theory somewhere and added my own extension to it.

The void century was the WG creating devil fruits. People before the void century didn't have DF powers but instead were the DF powers. By some process the DFs were created from the people themselves (Adding to the fact that DFs have their own will) .This being such a heinous and disgusting descision was removed from all of history.

Based on the stuff we know
Logia fruits used to be Lunarians
Paramitias were the ancient civilization
Zoans were that specific animal / human / god.

I think this theory makes a lot of sense if we put toki into the mix. Toki being a member of the ancient civilization is highly plausible and would also really support my previous theory. After toki died we never saw her DF reappear anywhere which would mean that it was straight up her own powers.

Luffys goal by going back in time would be to bring about the dawn of the new world maybe meet Joyboy and liberate the world. Roger arrived at laughtale and said they were too early. This could have been toki's purpose to find Joyboy. That's why she sailed with Roger and when they reached Laughtale they found something that made them say it was too early.

I theorise that the one piece is Joyboy diary where it's written about his adventures and what he is waiting for.

I haven't put much thought into this yet but I will keep thinking on this cause it is highly plausible

[sour oasis]

I have a theory dragon was a marine with garp in god valley and he saw what they did to the slaves so he saved kuma and ivan and left the marines to join the revolution army which made garp hate the cd and not work under them

[strange quarry]

that most likely exactly what happened

cuz thats garps silver linning for staying in the marines: not working under the nobels

[trim vapor]

Bonney will use her devil fruit to age back luffy to fight Saturn or start hamming the drum beat to revitalize luffy

[ashen surge]

Kind reminder that this channel is meant for high-effort theories and long thoughtful posts, not for one line ideas or joke theories.

[devout radish]

Dragon is 55 right now, if he was present at god valley he'd have been 17 and Ginny looks way too young for that. Crocodile however, is 46. He'd be 8 years old at the time of god valley, which could be the age of someone who looks as young as Ginny

[marble wolf]

Emu is a girl.

[grand pasture]

How important will Kuma race play apart?
Don’t seem as significant as Lunarian’s

[tacit veldt]

Most interesting thing about Kuma's race is its name. Why are they called that when all they seem to be is giant halfbloods? There could be some ties to how Giant pirates are (as far as we know) the oldest form of piracy in the Op world, so this Buccaneer race might be significant in exploring how piracy as a whole came to be

Other races so far have all been defined by their physical characteristics, as "race" would imply. And their history is tied to those differences, like how fishmen suffered discrimination due to, well, being part fish.
But if Buccaneers are human-giant hybrids, that's not really too worth of note. Sure they have a lot of strength packed in a human-sized body, but there's plenty of huge strong humans in the world.
More than about physique, this seems to be about culture. Based on the name it's plausible they might be the last remnants of a pirate kingdom, like the one Blackbeard is trying to establish in Hachinosu, founded by Giant pirates. So they carry in their culture and folklore what it means to be a pirate in its most ancestral meaning. That's for sure a great reason for the Government to hunt them down

[sand gust]

Hey i thought about sugar devil fruit, since she cannot age meaning she can live forever unless something happened.

What if sugar past user is from void century and that person touched multiple characters that could have huge role later. And since hobby hobby fruit make people forget about the targets. those people got erased from the history and now is free.

[tacit veldt]

Even just the implication of "pirates" being a race with shared past and cultural values is a huge threat to the WG at its core

[hallow pewter]

Not aging =/= immortal

[boreal skiff]

During the god valley flash back we will only see half of what happend, dragon will also make an appearance during it.

This theory might be wrong, but koby might eat a god devil fruit like luffy.
But 100% black beard has a god df

[boreal skiff]

Kuma is gonna regain his sentience because of luffy and join the strawhats

[viscid bone]

Jinny and Dragon have baby twins, a boy and girl, Bonney and Luffy, Garp takes Luffy and Kuma takes Bonney. It would explain why the WG doesn't care about Bonney potentially being a Buccaneer? IDK, not super likely but its fun to think about.

[scarlet vapor]

Dragon being at God Valley 38 years ago isn't out of the possibility but I wouldn't say he surely was there as I'm not Oda.

You meant Blackbeard ate a devil fruit which actual name was hidden just like the one Luffy ate?
In chapter 1037, Ju Peter mentioned that the World Government gave a specific devil fruit a unique name which we know refers to the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika.

[wispy maple]

Oda has set us up to expect to see Rocks and his crew, Roger, and Garp at least in the GV flashback. Now that we know it will be told through the POV of Kuma and Ivankov is there as well, it is only natural to expect Dragon to show up as well. Why will Dragon be on GV? Probably the same reason Garp ends up there.

I'm thinking there will be competing goals in GV at some point: (1) whatever sets up Garp/Roger vs Rocks, and (2) the slaves escaping and establishing the foundation for what will become the RA.

[unkempt yew]

I think that there is another stage after gear 5
and its using and control the devil of the fruit itself

its just a though may be true or false

[loud nimbus]

Isn’t he too big to fit on th sunny?

[boreal skiff]

Don't underestimate the size of it lmao

[loud nimbus]

He can’t even enter the room doors

[boreal skiff]

Yes blackbeard ate a fruit which isn't named the dark dark fruit. He ate one of the god fruits

[magic echo]

I'm back from my beheading and I got another theory for y’all.

Ok, so, everyone is, pretty on board with Saturn being a Ushi Oni. That being said, one of the powers of the Ushi Oni is having an incurable poison.

...what if saturn is where Gol D. Roger got his incurable disease?
Furthermore what if Saturn, in Egghead, gives Luffy the same incurable disease.

What if Choper's dream really becomes a priority again like it was at his character introduction and he fulfills his dream, by curing Luffy’s, incurable disease?

Thoughts?

[fresh pine]

Guys I think oda will introduce “devil vegetables” which are like devil fruits but stronger

[spare meadow]

thats actually a prett viable theory

[spare meadow]

either crocodile is ginny, or something else, but either way yeah maybe he was there. like maybe whitebeard almost killed him or something, but its probably deeper than that

[lapis kernel]

Croco Age = 46.
God valley incident 38 years ago
So croco had 8 years back then
And Kuma 7

[tacit veldt]

Anything that gives Chopper some time in the spotlight is straight fire. Luffy falling ill towards the end of the series looks like a real possibility since he's been hurting his own body since a long time ago

[weak nebula]

Rocks is Garling then?

[fair flame]

What if God Valley’s Nika was Xebec? Many suppose he was a Blackbeard predecessor but maybe they are wrong. Then after reaching Raftel Roger discover all the truth and he couldn’t do anything but laugh, he understood the big mistake he did (helping the marine)

[left phoenix]

Nika was stated to free and relieve people from their suffering, which is vague. Perhaps Rocks was a person that took it differently and killed the slaves to "relieve them from their suffering" as well as the CDs. Maybe that's why he wanted to be King of the World, to change it for the better...

[rapid carbon]

No, I suspect rocks is another god knight

[oblique isle]

Impossible if he's a D. They wouldn't ever allow a D. To be that far up the hierarchy

[rapid carbon]

Hear me out, I think we’re gonna learn about the will of d , I actually think the d and it’s connection to garp dragon roger and xebec all become revealed at god valley, like they learn bout the d there and that’s why garp is a high ranking marine despite the d in his name

[steady prism]

!theories general reminder that this channel is for long in-depth theories with plenty of evidence/reasoning. Please take shorter ideas/questions to #manga or #manga-serious

@hallow bear @hearty sedge this isn't the place for short "what if" questions. Also please use #manga for powerscaling topics like that

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[hearty sedge]

🫡

[left phoenix]

I need to look into this more, but good theory. Luffy left to be a pirate on his birthday. We don't know exactly long his journey was, but with the 2 year time skip, maybe by the time of war it will be 3 years since Luffy started? Another tournament that parallels God Valley?

Dragon said the God's knights will make their move soon, so maybe the next human extinction tournament will be the catalyst

And I feel like since the food reserves in Mariejois were destroyed, the nobles will cause even more disdain and problems from countries to recover their food, draining the resources from poor countries and that will cause a great rift so more people join revolutionary army

I think chapter 1083

[rapid carbon]

God valley might be a scaled down version of the final battle .

[left phoenix]

One of the Gorosei mentioned a great cleansing, which gives void century vibes. What if it's like God Valley human extermination tournament but like worldwide?

[inland cobalt]

Where is it stated that god valley was in a specific year. Afaik there never been any date system shown in OP.

[opaque wagon]

But it happens every 3 years

[left phoenix]

Last one was 38 years ago, so assuming they still do it, next one is in 1 year or less. It's possible it's only a few months if currently it's at the end of calendar year.

[opaque wagon]

I don't think they still do it otherwise we would have heard from someone

[inland cobalt]

I’m going to be honest no theory relying on number theory stuff outside of Japanese syllable play is ever going to happen since it’s entirely pointless because you can manipulate numbers endlessly

[opaque wagon]

Maybe after the clash on God valley they stopped holding these tournaments. If garo knows about this he won't allow them to hold these kinds of tournaments

[inland cobalt]

If you want to make elaborate head canons that’s cool but math isn’t proof outside of finding dates.

[opaque wagon]

But are we really going to wait that long in actual story?

[inland cobalt]

Because your not offering anything of substance outside of random unrelated math lol.

[left phoenix]

A day is difference between, for example, December 31st 2023, and January 1st 2024. It's very possible that a tournament is within a few weeks or months. Of course no confirmation yet.

[left phoenix]

Fair but we need to see more until we can say 100%

[opaque wagon]

Right now One piece is very much unpredictable. Anything can happen. Maybe that could be the final war

Things are happening very fast in one piece rn. There is likely less chance of time skip. What could be the possible reasons?

[iron zephyr]

I guess you're right. Considering what a time skip could be. I guess one might not happen because a month can pass in one piece and we might not even know

[left phoenix]

It could be a short one like Wano, like a month, on Elbaf maybe? Not sure tbh

[opaque wagon]

Things are moving to their conclusion, Blackbeard pirates are also becoming more active and trying to collect poneglyphs and people who could read them. Shanks is also going for one piece, gorosei are coming into action, vivi is on the run and the Revolutionary army is also preparing for war.

[opaque wagon]

In between wano we had WCI and there is the whole intro of germa66, sanji's backstory and big mom pirates. Other supernovas except urouge are more or less not relevant to the story that much

[left phoenix]

We still have to find the man marked by flames with fourth road poneglyph. We have some time before final war

[opaque wagon]

By the looks of shanks it feels like he already knows about the location of the 4th poneglyph. I think BB pirates also got some info otherwise kidnapping Charlotte doesn't make much sense as it will create a rivalry between BM pirates and BB pirates. Afaik BB is a very cautious man so he will avoid this type of situation unless the reward is not worthy he won't take such risk.

[dire flint]

I thought it was already confirmed to be the giant that helped robin, forgot his name

[left phoenix]

Saul, and it wasnt

[dire flint]

This is about the man marked by flames? If it is what chapter

[left phoenix]

Chapter 1081 I think

[iron zephyr]

Who Had the ability of flames that could have scarred someone in a fight?

assuming thats what it implies. he could be someone that is the flames too? Watch, it's just a metaphor

[inland cobalt]

It’s not necessarily a burn from flames in the Japanese it’s more vague and could be a tattoo or just a scar that looks like flames

[turbid trail]

We also still have elbaf, which won’t just be some side stop roadshow

[left phoenix]

I think it will be a new character. Of course it's possible to be a character we've seen, but for now I think it's someone we haven't seen.

[dire flint]

Wait what ponygliph are they even looking for, I thought Luffy already found 4

[left phoenix]

The one that was in Fishman Island during Roger Flashback. Luffy has Zou, WCI, and Wano red poneglyph. Last one was taken from Fishman Island presumably by man marked by flames

BB probably has the Wano and Zou ones from beating Law, and got the WCI one when Pudding was kidnapped.

Shanks probably has WCI and Wano ones from beating Kidd. I don't know if he has the Zou ones, but he's been on Zou before I think

[dire flint]

Didn’t Kidd law and Luffy exchange the info they had, why would Kidd need to find the man marked by flames

[dire flint]

Tbh I still think it’s Saul cause he could have gotten his burns from when he was frozen on O’Hara and O’Hara was burning to ashes

[left phoenix]

Law gave Kidd a copy of the Wano poneglyph. I don't know if he gave him the Zou one as well, probably not. Kidd knew about man marked by flames, and said he had a leg up on Luffy, but didn't share any info

[inland cobalt]

They only have 3 road poneglyphs atm kaidos BM and Zou mmbf has the final one

[left phoenix]

Why would Saul be on a pitch black ship controlling giant whirlpools? Last time we see him he was on Elbaf. And how did he find the red poneglyph?

[dire flint]

Oh yea Luffy didn’t get the red ponygliph at fishmen, it was already gone

[dire flint]

Not just saul alone, he probably got a crew just like he got a group of giants to retrieve the books from ohara. Maybe someone from that crew has some sort of ability to make the whirlpool. Also maybe he could have had help from scooper Gaban or someone from the roger pirates because they were the only ones, to our knowledge, who knew where the ponygliph at fishmen island was

[iron zephyr]

wow,if someone from Rogers crew has it, that'll be amazing!

[left phoenix]

Who knows at this point. We only know a little bit of vague info.

[dire flint]

Tbh I think all the roger pirates are held up at elbaf

[left phoenix]

We still never got confirmation on who this is

[iron zephyr]

the hair reminds me of Kalgara or Dragon

[inland cobalt]

That looks nothing like dragons hair

[rapid carbon]

I’ve always assumed it was Scopper

[dire flint]

is that a chaptwr cover

[left phoenix]

Think it was cover of chapter 631

[rapid carbon]

Scopper gaban from rogers crew

[iron zephyr]

Why do you keep responding to me? Ive told you I dont want to speak with you. I know what dragons hair looks like, thanks bud 😉

[left phoenix]

Could be. He still is yet to make an appearance

[dire flint]

Don’t think that’s scopper, scopper has like Afro hair like ussop

[iron zephyr]

yup

[dire flint]

Yea that isn’t scopper

[mighty chasm]

Is any theories on 6 chest tournament at god valley?

[rapid carbon]

Kaido fruit origin I think perhaps even all the rocks pirates . Dragons fruit

[dire flint]

I just saw a theory on this, there are 6 prizes at the tournament, each chest could hold a devil fruit. Kaidos fruit, wb fruit, kuma fruit, Ivankovs fruit, and dragons fruit

[left phoenix]

One of the DFs in chest has Kaido's fish fish fruit. The CDs who win wouldn't eat the fruits, but feed them to their slaves to laugh at their weird powers.

[dire flint]

Was just typing that 😂

[rapid carbon]

Unless ivankov has the df already

[dire flint]

Nah he would have used his powers on himself if that was the case

[left phoenix]

Too hard to say atm. Maybe we'll learn more next chapter.

[iron zephyr]

whose the 6th fruit going to? Jinny maybe?

[inland cobalt]

I think WB already had his DF plus know what DF is what doesn’t seem to be an exact science

[left phoenix]

Bonney's unidentified DF, but Jinny dies

[rapid carbon]

Sengoku?

[dire flint]

That idk maybe wb also got Marcos fruit, or something else, don’t think it would be something wack like bonneys fruit

[dire flint]

Nah I think all the fruits were stolen so I doubt the CD would Hand a fruit like that to anyone

[rapid carbon]

Sengoku might be there with garp . Maybe Aces fruit . Marco is a contender. The yami yami?

[iron zephyr]

If Shiki is on Xebec ship, maybe he might get it too?

[dire flint]

Yea thats a possibility, but shiki isn’t a solidified character imo, Ik he’s apart of the story but to me personally I just don’t see him as someone important

[loud nimbus]

If they use Uranus and it’s fully powered then it’s possible

[rotund swift]

Vegapunk clones

[rotund swift]

WOW makes sense

[radiant crown]

sounds like one of the chests might contain the giant egg that gets carried around on the oro jackson

[rotund swift]

YES

[radiant crown]

I agree with the concept of powerful fruits being some of the prizes, and thats a big enough reason to bring the rocks pirates there. But Roger's motives are always pretty whimsical, I don't have something that takes Roger to God Valley, other than him "hearing the Voice of all things" in the egg and thinking fuck it I want that egg

[radiant crown]

Just saw a tiktok thread list all of these fruits but instead of dragons it was Hancocks, as she was forced to eat hers by a cd?

[dire flint]

Yea that’s where I got it from, it mentioned both of their fruits, but idk about Hancock cause she was born 31 years ago and god valley happened 38 years ago, and I just can’t see a scenario where a cd would hold onto a fruit for 19 years just to force it to Hancock, so I didn’t include her

[radiant crown]

Fair

[silent ether]

So not sure why or how but wasn't shanks found inside a treasure chest at God Valley?
What if...

[deft valley]

YO I JUST FIGURED OUT WHY SENGOKU DIDNT HURT SHANKS AT MARINEFORD, ITS CUS HE MIGHT BE A CELESTIAL DRAGON

[dire flint]

Yea he was, I’d assume the chest originally had a fruit and whoever was with shanks originally stashed him in the chest, which the roger pirates found

[dire flint]

There is a 10 year difference between when roger got the disease and when the god valley incident happened, so he didnt get it from Saturn

[magic echo]

true, but we don't know everything. im not even sure if any gorosei were at god valey cause they never leave Marie Goise.
Dragon i think was a vice admiral which means he could have an audience with the gorosei, I think he probably exclaimed that he was leaving the military and was attacked in a similar manner to sabo and cobra.

[dire flint]

Saturn was at god valley, and I don’t think dragon was a vice admiral at the time, he was only 17, so maybe he was a captain like Koby is currently, unless he was some sort of prodigy, but I doubt they wooo up of put someone that young at such a high position in the marines.

[magic echo]

i think we can make a safe assumption that he was a prodigy because of his father and the fact that he and young akainu seem to have some sort of relationship.
also my theory genuinely isn't contingent on god valley at all.

[dire flint]

Ehh, akainu was a vice admiral at the age of 33, and I’d assume that dragon and akainu were kinda like rivals so it’s best to assume they were the same rank, so I don’t think dragon was that high of a rank during the god valley incident.

[left phoenix]

Dragon could be former cipher pol too. He has an intelligence network. And Akainu didn't seem to like Cipher Pol when talking with gorosei

[magic echo]

my theory has nothing to do with god valley

[dire flint]

Yea ik, but based off what we know the only time Saturn and roger could have been fighting one another is at god valley cause Saturn and the other gorosei, as you said, don’t come down from Marie goise that often

[magic echo]

ok look, people assumed that Kuma's flashback would be totally separate from the god valley flashback.
boom we're there now and we see they're one and the same.
people were expecting the god valley flashback in Elbaf

connections can be made, and we don't have perfect information, we're just looking at the variable availbale and putting them togeather.

also we genuinely don't know that cause a few people have been able to get into Marie Goise and narrowly escape, Bonnie, Laffitte, that revolutionary that can dig through anything, etc

[magic echo]

ohara incident was 22 years ago, meaning that when dragon establish the revolutionary army he was 33
just googled it

[left phoenix]

He must have had Luffy only a few years after Ohara Incident

[magic echo]

yep, cause luffy is 19

[left phoenix]

Anyways yeah I can't say right now. I don't know if Oda will make Roger's disease a prominent plot point, or it was just a disease he caught from something natural in the Grand line.

[magic echo]

maybe not, but I think It brings the story full circle.
Oda loves mirrors, parallels, and foreshadowing.

[dire flint]

Yea ik, but you were saying he could have been a prodigy and a vice admiral at the age of 17, and I said that I think they were the same rank when they were together in the marines, so I don’t think he was a vice admiral at the time

[magic echo]

i did not say this

[dire flint]

You were saying he was a prodigy when I was saying I don’t think he was anything higher then a captain like coby unless he was a prodigy’s ( my fault when I said “and a vice admiral scratch that)

[magic echo]

do you mostly see what Im getting at now though?

[dire flint]

About who roger or dragon

[magic echo]

the initial theory, roger.
i was never conversing about dragon

[dire flint]

Ehh, I could see why you would think it was from Saturn, but to get the illness, based off what a Ushi Oni is, don’t you have to look upon it to get the illness

[magic echo]

👍

[pallid kite]

Any theories that Kuma and Ginny are the parents of Luffy and Bonney? Bonney being Luffy’s younger sister? Dragon is Luffy’s adoptive Dad and not biological.

[left phoenix]

Why would Dragon be luffy's adopted dad if Luffy barely knows Dragon...?

[inland cobalt]

Bonney is 5 years older than Luffy she would definitely remember her mom giving birth to another child….

[blissful sun]

Lol 100% wrong

[turbid trail]

I think it’s hilarious that people believe Luffy and Bonney are blood related strictly because they both eat meat.

[blissful sun]

Yup it doesn't make sense

[vital sierra]

.

[ashen surge]

We don’t know how old Bonney is

[inland cobalt]

She’s almost either certainly younger than luffy which also wouldn’t make sense story wise or older and remember having a sibling.

[unkempt yew]

I think its the time Bonney will do the song of Nika(Dums of liberation)
because its passed down by buccaneers folklore for generations

since luffy dont have the energy
Bonney will awake the Robot instead of luffy

[quick notch]

Is st. Figarland garling a celestial dragon?

If so why was he working under the celestial dragons as their knight?

[fallow bobcat]

He's a celestial above the celestials

[quick notch]

I mean at godvalley

They still referred to him as st. Garling but called him a knight...so he protects the celestial dragons ryt?

[chilly leaf]

good point

[magic echo]

Actually yes... But the theory makes little sense imo

[iron zephyr]

Pretty sure she's not younger than Luffy

[wispy maple]

They are both. God's knights and God knights.

[quick notch]

Why would a celestial dragon agree to be guards to other celestial dragons? I feel they they r too prideful for that

[wispy maple]

It'd been implied by vegapunk that Bonney is probably very young, even a child still.

[wispy maple]

My read is some celestial dragons have natural talent for fighting and they definitely have the most resources for training and developing talent.

[quick notch]

Right...but knights are just glorified bodyguards...why would the most talented GODS become mere bodyguards

[wispy maple]

Oda is frequently showing us that they are just normal people who have been given otherworldly privilege. He shows us that while as a culture they are worthless, there are individuals among them.

They aren't just bodyguards they are the court and judges as well. They are the celestial dragons police.

[quick notch]

Well...that makes sense

[little moon]

anybody got any idea/theory how the strawhar will escape the island

[wispy maple]

Kuma paws them all away in another parallel to saboady

Mostly jk, idk how they'd get away with the sunny too.

[magic echo]

Cause they are giga racist and take pride in killing lesser people

[magic echo]

I think that is a tiny stretch, vegapunk is old and even in real life old people treat young people even young adults in very infantilized way.
Im in my mid 20s and and elders still call me a child.

I agree with everything else though

[wheat skiff]

I'm not 100% convinced myself but if the entire Strawhat Crew disappeared + whoever is left from the Vegapunk crew, it would fall in place with Kidd's Pirates getting destroyed, Law's crew suffering the same fate
Garp is officially MIA
Maybe the Egghead Incident just simply has the Strawhat Crew getting sent to Elbaf (unbeknownst to Marines ofc)

[iron zephyr]

It's hard to explain but I do believe she's 22.

[wispy maple]

Bonney doesn't exactly display many adultlike traits in her personality. Of course I am just theorizing here. I do get the impression she is more likely a child aged up from her DF than a fully grown adult woman.

The more I think back, the more Bonney always comes across as childlike in her behavior. Very rushed and not thought out. Highly emotional and not able to process those emotions. There's also the interesting detail that when she was unconscious in the water when the SHs found her at the start of Egghead she was a little girl. Suggesting that when the sea reverted her DF power it showed her real age.

[wheat skiff]

I do believe we have already seen Luffy being able to stretch while underwater

Water weakens the user, it doesn't negate the DF

I wonder just how much of a control does Bonney DF give to its user ?

Can you just indefinitely age yourself up until you'd need to change it?

[wispy maple]

Didn't she do the last thing in Mariejoa when she appeared as the Queen Dowager at the reverie?

Also it's not that the sea undoes DF powers, it's that they make the user unable to control them. Luffy doesn't stretch himself when he is exposed to water, other people can still stretch his rubber body.

Also, I just googled and reverie was almost 200 chapters ago...wtf

What were the chapters that showed how Bonney/Vivi/Sabo/Wapol escaped the reverie? I am trying to remember how Bonney escaped. I just remember Sabo being stowed away the ship's hull and Vivi and Wapol escaping with Morgans. Did we see how Bonney escaped?

[ashen surge]

The God Valley Incident and why Roger "saved the Celestial Dragons" with Monkey D. Garp

The God Valley Incident, infamous yet shrouded in mystery, witnessed unprecedented alliances, such as the joint force of Garp and Gol D. Roger, and significant occurrences like Kaido acquiring his Devil Fruit and Baby Shanks being taken by Roger’s crew. This peculiar entwining of destinies and paths has baffled fans for years, igniting numerous theories and speculations. It is a convoluted tale of unexpected alliances, thwarted ambitions, and shrouded motives that startrs to unveil itself in Chapter 1095, where secrets of the notorious God Valley Incident finally begin to unravel.

We’ve had to wonder for years what the Celestial Dragons were doing in the God Valley. I had my personal bets for it being a hotspot for slave trade. But in truth the Celestial Dragons, synonymous with ruthless brutality and slave owning, also regularly orchestrate genocides for mere sport, even further demonstrating a malevolence that transcends mere villainy.

Given the incomprehensible cruelty of the Celestial Dragons, the readers have naturally oscillated between theories, attempting to demystify why Roger and Garp, characters intrinsically divergent in principles from the Celestial Dragons, would cooperate to protect them.

In the same chapter, we have Sengoku lecturing marines about the God Valley incident and we also learn something of Rocks’ ambitions. He wanted to be the “King of the world”. I think it’s fair to assume that this means Rocks wanted to get rid of the current sovereigns of the world, the Celestial Dragons and take their place. It was a time when it was unfounded that pirates would be openly hostile towards the World Government. Remember that even the Revolutionary Army didn’t exist back then.

Since in 1095 we saw Kuma’s father talk about Nika to him, I think I have to admit that the legend of Nika is not so well kept secret after all. Completely because I want to toot my own horn, I want to point out that I’ve talked a lot about how Nika is the sun god because he will come and take people out under the sun and be free. The straw hat is essentially a symbol of freedom and most likely it was worn by the people who followed Nika. Luffy's straw hat originally belonged to Roger, the Pirate King, the Most Free Man on the Sea. But he also got that hat from somewhere. He already had it back then when he met with Silvers Rayleigh. I think Roger was versed in Nikas legend already back then and it was the reason why he wore the straw hat. I think Roger’s goal was very well aligned with the idea of freeing everyone of the CD’s oppression.

(Interestingly enough, we also see people who Luffy has freed wearing the straw hat, “the hero’s hat” as we see in the Decks of the New World #19)

The question arises: why would Roger, aiming to liberate slaves, ally himself to protect the Celestial Dragons - the world's notorious tyraants? My hypothesis revolves around the potential outcome of Rocks overthrowing the Celestial Dragons. While this would terminate the Dragons’ 800-year reign of oppression, it would merely substitute one tyrant for another.

He was not there to defend the Celestial Dragons, he was there to stop Rocks' ascend. If Rocks succeeded, it would reset everything. Rocks taking the CD’s place would end 800 years of oppression by CD’s sure but it would also make 800 years of quiet resistance and all the boiling feelings of common people towards the CD's obsolete. Roger, I believe, perceived that only through a genuine uprising from the common people, inspired by the Flames of Rebellion, could true change be manifested.

But the Flames of Rebellion are not enough to get everyone on board. Some people will accept the status quo instead of an unknown tomorrow. You need a promise of a better tomorrow, a New Dawn even.

During the Void Century, the Celestial Dragons got into power by defeating the Ancient Kingdom and the Clan of the D. But the AK and the D’s were able to leave a trail of breadcrumbs in the form of the poneglyphs to the true history of the world. Roger was on that trail to learn what actually happened during the Void Century. And that information is meant to be shared. The common people need to know what actually happened in the Void Century between the 20 kingdoms that formed the World Government and the AK, they need to know how technologically advanced the Ancient Kingdom was and how they would’ve made manual human labour obsolete. This knowledge, paired with the aspirational beacon that Nika represents, could fuel the Flames of Rebellion, guiding the populace out of perpetual darkness towards that New Dawn. Roger comprehended these nuances and deemed Rocks, with his authoritarian aspirations, a greater threat to the people's freedom than the existing tyrants, the Celestial Dragons.

[radiant crown]

I am generally sceptical about these assumptions about Roger's motivations, I don't think there is any time he has shown us he is seriously trying to achieve somethin, other than finding out about the past. The only example I would think of is when he recruited Rayleigh and asked him "if he wanted to turn the world upside down". He might have known about Nika but I don't think he cares enough to keep tabs on and stop someone like rocks

[ashen surge]

We know he had a dream that is the same as Luffys

he was after something

[radiant crown]

yeah and how many of luffys moves are meticulously planned 😂 .

I'm inclined to think Roger was there for something, and ended up fighting rocks to get whatever it was he wanted (I put my money on the big egg).

[iron zephyr]

wg is full of lies and conspiracies.

[clever ocean]

almost everyone knows that

[clever lintel]

Here is an idea that I have on it.

[pure raven]

Zoro betraying luffy 😭

[drowsy rover]

i think the end of celestial dragons is near because the way sabo ended the supply boats toward mariejois will make them end up living like the ppls lives they ruined and they will starve

[left phoenix]

I think it's more like, the food reserves are destroyed. The CDs are going to demand more food and resources from their WG countries to recuperate their losses, causing a bigger rift between CDs and commoners.

[drowsy rover]

so all of luffies hard to liberate each island is going to waste and now they finna starve 🥲

i just feel like the cd gna run out of food and be forced to eat maybe a storage of devil fruits and we will see what happens when somebody eats more then 1 fruit

[inland cobalt]

I don’t think she had any buccaneer traits since she doesn’t have the size of them

[iron zephyr]

Sorry to just cut in like that

[clever lintel]

She did when using her df for this attack.

[muted valley]

Fr fr, I've had Shonen apart of my life for more than 25 years now, with all the old ones from 80s to now. It really does happen where they fk up at end and make it worse.

[iron zephyr]

Oda is a master though lol. His knowledge is so high. Wonder if he's got ocd, jk

[muted valley]

Just saying there is a possibility, rn oda is a goat. However I do hope he keeps the quality all the way through and not some rushed parts bc it has been 25ys of op.

[left phoenix]

I need to look into that more. Thanks for sharing!

[lime pasture]

Oda loves his numbers and puns

[steady prism]

According to Oda’s SBS on ch671, Bonney’s age pre-ts is 22. So post-ts she’s 24. Also, she has a birthday (Sept 1) from another SBS in ch590. In my opinion, her age is said to be an “estimate” just to pay homage to her df powers. Oda wrote these ages back in 2012 so I’d rather not read too deeply into what he meant by ‘estimate’ because it’ll just be heavy speculation territory unless there’s any other comments Oda made to directly clarify what he meant.

[iron zephyr]

I agree, Oda is too deep to know what he has planned. 🙂

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[inland cobalt]

The real answer is he doesn’t have a concrete plan but a rough blueprint he’s talked about this in the past iirc

[foggy gulch]

Sad theory/ Ginny will die at godvallie. because:
1.ginny was introduced in a flash back.
2. So far any character that was involved in godvalley survived it except for Ginny and rocks as far as I know.

[young oyster]

Do you think it would be a cool if brook could take control of other people who are weaker than him .
That would be useful on egghead by hoping from body to body to fight the marines by making shoot each other.

A nice power up

[silver loom]

ya

[fathom matrix]

What if Crocodile was a Celestial Dragon?

The reason why Evan knows jhis secret is that he was on God Vally just like them, and maybe for all we know Crocodile used to play with the slaves there, was friends with them OR used them like everyone else.

Crocodile might understand how dangerous it is for a CD to be on land, cause he knows that if anyone finds out about his old life, it doesn't matter who he is know, if there's a chance to kill a Celestial Dragon that lost their title they WILL go after their head.

Since the RA and Cross guild are becoming vbery prominent RN, groups with Croc and Eva, and Evankov's shown up, it MIGHT show off Crocodile in this chapter too and show us his past

And that's why he's really touchy on people knowing, because it will paint a MASSIVE target on his head

[unkempt yew]

The Buccaneer's sin

Before 900 years the Noah was raised in the yojin island
and when Luffy wanted to break it during his fight, the sea monsters held the ship into the forest and said "we need them to repair it"
and its obvious that they are not the Fish-men because they are too little compared to the ship.

and we know that the Buccaneers are big enough to build that ship and that is not a sin because it didnt move because joy boy sent them a message that he will not do his promise

so if they managed to build Noah, why can't they build an Ancient weapon which is there sin

and we know Kuma stayed beside the sunny go when he seperated the crew

[left phoenix]

Interesting. I never thought of that. Maybe Joyboy was a Buccaneer too? It may explain the giant strawhat in Mariejois. Them may refer to either the buccaneers, the D. Clan, or the Kozuki Clan. Does that mean there are like a small group of buccaneers hidden away that can repair the ship? Pluton was built in Water 7, so maybe that has something to do with this?

[unkempt yew]

joy boy is either a buccaneer or a giant
because of the giant straw hat in the marygeoise

[desert notch]

What if blackbeard has a chaos or war based devil fruit inspired by blood meridian? I'm specifically talking about judge holden,the main antagonist of the book
Blackbeard and judge holden have some in common.
-both of them never sleep
-some of the most brutal,chaotic characters in their respective series
-jolly attitudes despite being horrible people

Judge holden was implied to be the manifestation of chaos itself that comes with war. So what if blackbeard's last fruit is just that?

[blissful sun]

R u making a shitty theory about bonney and luffy are blood related?

[rapid carbon]

Is it really shitty? It’s not the stupidest theory out there (crocomom)

[pure raven]

Days later I still think it's the case.

[blissful sun]

Both are shits , people just assuming that that meat eating girl is luffy mom , not every meat eating person is not luffy blood related, ace also eat like luffy but he was not his blood related and we saw Zoro , brook , ussop eating in the same like that manga girl

[inland cobalt]

Yeah it’s a pretty massive reach without any concrete ties other than “meat”

[grizzled swift]

quick skim, been busy. was there any theories on what saturns powers are?

[radiant crown]

one guy thinks he can absorb damage (bonney stab) and then dish it out elsewhere (sanji)

[grizzled swift]

mm closest we have is force or gravity. being 1. saturn. and having the power to like pin everyone, maybe with gravity.

[gritty kite]

That’s clearly not it, specially with Fujitora existing

[grizzled swift]

yeah just saying the closest we have in a friends group. some form of force or gravity or magnitism maybe. the part that kinda throws us is the destroying the marines head.

[steady prism]

!theories general reminder to please take questions and shorter thoughts to #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

@thorny gorge @verbal spire both of you made some interesting thoughts, but please use #manga-serious next time for short ideas like that.

[verbal spire]

wow i always fuck up when it comes to this server ill just stay here and lurk for now on lol

[steady prism]

Lol, it's nbd man. It was just a reminder

[steady prism]

@plain yarrow since this channel's for in-depth theories, please use #manga or #manga-serious for general comments like that

[remote coral]

Y'all. In the introduction panel of the 5 gorosei, we can see multiple demonic circles. One of them is clearer than the others and we can see some form of flower in the middle. We also see imu for the first time in a room called the chamber of flowers. I'm currently trying to find a link with demonic mythologies and flowers.
the flower might be a spider lilly. They say it's used to foreshadow a coming death.

I believe imu has something to do with flowers. Might be a far fetch but if you look at the room at the gorosei's introduction panel, there are a lot of flowers

[left phoenix]

In Vol. 95 SBS, Oda mentioned if Blackbeard was a flower he would represent the red spider lily, so maybe something there.

[proper leaf]

Dumb question, but is Dragon Garp's son?
I don't recall him being explicitly referred to as such, just as "Luffy's father"

[left phoenix]

Yes, check out chapter 1087. I don't know why so many people doubt this lol.

[last estuary]

Chapter 439

[proper leaf]

I see, thx yall. I thought I missed smth
Plus with the realization that Dragon and Akainu know each other, I wondered abt that further

[last estuary]

He calls Luffy his kid's kid solidifying that Dragon is indeed his son

[last estuary]

How so?

[proper leaf]

Sakazuki really hates Dragon. He keeps referring to Luffy as "son of Dragon", and considering his name translates to "cup of sake" roughly, and Luffy, Ace, and Sabo drank the cup which normally signifies strong bonds, it's a stretched theory but something must've happened to Sakazuki for him to really zero in on Dragon.

[steady prism]

Let’s maybe continue this convo in #manga-serious pls. Better place for questions like the one you had @proper leaf

[proper leaf]

i've had my question answered, but looks like there's a message in #manga-serious already relating to it

[last estuary]

That's just a theory though... and also, if they had truly knew each other, Dragon's full name would have been publicly known and his relation with Garp etc etc. I doubt it was a personal grudge... It's more of a future threat and he wants to extinguish the flame before they possess a bigger threat in the future (which he was right about). As for him constantly referring to Luffy as "Dragon's son". It's more of him undermining Luffy since he doesn't acknowledge him to share the same stage as many big hitters whom were present at the war.

[iron zephyr]

lol makes sense. I wont go hardcore on that but i must say, thats an really awesome thing to hear that haha!

But what are your thoughts about the egg that's on Oro Jacksons ship?

[proper leaf]

Hence why it is in #manga-theories haha

[tribal cape]

Bet reposted

[pure raven]

They are the same age as well

[proper leaf]

Yeah that's also a good point. They're definitely connected one way or another

[pure raven]

Could possibly be over a girl. I’d love to find out Dragon, Akainu, and possibly some third person had a Luffy, Sabo, Ace type relationship

[proper leaf]

Hm, that could be possible. I didn't think about a girl factor. Is there an indication for that?

[left phoenix]

Akainu has a friendship with Kizaru, since they joined marines at the same time and knew each other before joining in the North Blue

[pure raven]

Dragon, Akainu, and Kizaru trio Green Red Yellow. I like it.

[left phoenix]

But I'm guessing if that was the case, Dragon realized that he didn't want to serve the Celestial Dragons, so he quit and betrayed his 'friends' in their eyes, since Akainu and Kizaru are fine with serving CDs.

[burnt garden]

Shanks lost his arm because he was tired and his haki was depleted after the fight to recover the gomu gomu no mi

[orchid trail]

what if it has to do with God Valley and how they interpreted the incident. If Dragon was at GV (possibly as a marine) and saw the incident, that may have led him to start his revolution after seeing what the celestial dragons do. especially if he meets kuma and ivankov there. and on the other hand Akainu deepens his hatred for pirates after seeing what rocks does.

[pure raven]

Prolly purely head canon. Tho the fact Akainu has a flower and wears flower pattern clothing. He might possibly be a romantic.

[proper leaf]

That is a really good theory. It's possible they saw both sides of criminality and went down different paths to tackle it.

[left phoenix]

This is a bit outdated, but Pink Rabbit, Brown Pig, and Black Horse has been revealed. It's possible Dragon had another color, and the green is a symbol of change as a revolutionary

[pure raven]

I like this and I’m sure some government propaganda that Dragon did some heinous things pushed the rift further

[proper leaf]

I haven't thought about that angle. The flowers definitely signify something, considering that despite wearing a symbol of peace, he is incredibly warlike.

[left phoenix]

Sengoku could represent Goat. That leaves Snake, Dragon, and Rat.

[orchid trail]

Sanji is wearing a floral shirt in egg head right now 👀

[pure raven]

I thought about it then both being there. I like the theory a lot The only hurdle is why know one remembers Dragon being a marine. Unless WG wiped that away too from history so it doesn’t make the marines look bad. Having a former marine be the leader of the Rev army is a bad look

[left phoenix]

If not a marine, it's possible Dragon could have been former Cipher-pol, since he has an affinity for intelligence gathering.

[orchid trail]

not only is it a bad look, but he was also only 17 at the time. When Koby was 16, no one really took him seriously and he wasn’t known at all. it’s very likely that Dragon was just following his dad, and GV made him realize he was on the wrong side

Whatever happened at GV, caused Roger (pirate) and Garp (marine) to team up. So it only makes sense for Dragon to see what happened and decide that he doesn’t reside with either thus causing him to make his own faction of the Revolutionaries.

[pure raven]

just tried to do some research. Only other color I seen him wear was orange

[pure raven]

Hiding something, but honestly I feel like we expecting to see Akainu backstory just be his family getting slaughter by Pirates

[pure raven]

True romantics think the same. Although I can’t see Akainu hitting nosebleeds, but who knows might be his goofy trait.

[pure raven]

I like that and it fits his character he’s more of a strategist kinda guy

[pure raven]

That is true although Dragon has some clout being the son of Garp. All this makes me wonder if Dragon left at 17 what could he have been doing from 17 to 33 when decided to create the revolutionary army?

My theory is he was gathering information and traveling. Obviously he had a kid and found Ivankov and Kuma

[left phoenix]

apparently freedom fighters, but I think there's something that happened before it that made him consider that path. It was stated he has a secret past, but if his RA subordinates ever found out, they would still follow him without a shadow of a doubt. Even Ivankov, one of his closest commanders, didn't know certain things.

[iron zephyr]

Yesh, during this time he may have met Clover and Olvia

[left phoenix]

Dragon knew Clover and Vegapunk before Post-Ohara, so he had to have met them somehow, whether together or independently.

[iron zephyr]

That secret you mentioned. I don't know...but I've had this thought in my mind about a certain race they come from...

[iron zephyr]

Yes, but some how the three were never together

I've got this weird idea but it makes me nervous ill get ridiculed for it lol

[left phoenix]

I certainly don't mind, but I would suggest moving to #manga-serious before mods say something

[stray pecan]

so hear me out imagine if luffy’s final fight is imu on the last manga panel what if it looks the same as when luffy used gum gum pistol on the sea beast

[stark zenith]

may i ask? is the story where roger found shanks in treasure chest is canon? or fanmade?

[left phoenix]

canon

[stark zenith]

what chapter is this? or any credible source? i just saw it from YouTube

[left phoenix]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/103y7f2/one_piece_chapter_4_billion_the_redhaired_baby/

[pure raven]

Adding onto the theory that God Valley is really called Sword God's Valley, I believe Ryuma didn't kill a physical dragon, but rather a celestial dragon, a founder/previous elder blessed with immortality. Thus why the current elders decided to hold their smash bros tournament there

[bitter hearth]

You guys think that yomi yomi no mi is actually a mythical zoan?

[brave sierra]

Maybe since Kidd died, it signifes that the strongest era is coming soon and so Law may die and lose to BB and then he takes his fruit and gets immortality. (havent thought about the end)

Dragon may probably have been married to a Celestial Dragon because he is more wanted than even the pirate king and Xebec. Even Xebec has been defying the World Government, so Dragon has mast likely done something worse which is having a child with a celestial dragon.

[round bone]

So I have a theory about Akainu

I can totally see a scene where Kizaru is revealed to work closely with Imu without Akainu knowing, and Akainu ends up betraying the WG when he finds out. (What I mean by that is that he will try to get the navy disconnected from the World government to follow his own justice. We have seen the lengths he'll go to, including killing his OWN MEN if he believes they're not following his justice.

So the reason I believe this is because in Battles without Honor and Humanity (the most famous movies Bunta Sugawara was in, guy that Akainu was based on) there's a scene in the end where Makihara (that character is played by the actor Kizaru is based on, Kunie Tanaka) is revealed to be the yakuza boss's right hand man without Shozo (bunta) knowing.

Makihara was the only friend left he had in the Yakuza family, they joined together and had gone through world war 2 together as soldiers. So when Makihara betrays him it's the final straw and the movie ends with Shozo leaving the Yakuza family for good.

There's so many elements taken from this movie that are put into Akainu and kizarus characters and story. I mean, hell, both Shozo and Makihara act the EXACT same as their anime counterparts. Like be for real, the entire movie is about how Shozo gets taken advantage of by his boss who is pathetic, slimey, and sees everyone else as worthless, and he does ALL his dirty work for him (celestial dragon fr 😭) and then Makihara is revealed to work for him directly??? (since Kizaru never has a problem actually taking orders from the celestial dragons)

There's so many parallels I would be surprised if this DOESN'T happen.

[cobalt karma]

That's a lot of effort

[round bone]

Wdym, you talking about me taking the time to watch the movies or something? If so, it's because I already love those actors so yeah haha

[gritty kite]

Where does that come from? Not only what we have seen in last chapter doesn’t seem to indicate any relation to ryuma, the Ryuma manga showed an actual dragon and was said to be canon. It’s going to be animated soon, I doubt they are going to reveal it didn’t happen.

[slender fulcrum]

God valley seems to have a mountain split in two though :p

[supple bane]

This is true

[loud nimbus]

Where is that vice admiral smoker? So far in the egghead arc he hasnt making any moves. He wasn’t with Tashigi at pirate island and usually they are never far apart. And neither he is at egghead where Luffy is holed up.

G-14 the marine base where vice admiral doll was station is like a checkpoint for those reaching egghead. And we know morgans airship is in the area close to the island carrying a certain princess. If the marine bae sees the airship trying to enter eggheads airspace they could order it to turn away. But if smoke was indeed left at the base to manage things in dolls place, things might get interesting. If oda keeps true to vivi’s character in wanting to help her friends despite her inability we may see smoker actually try to help her.

I mean she is aware that he let Luffy go because Luffy ordered Zoro to save him from drowning. And smoker is well aware of her connection with the strawhats. At the very least Vivi knows she can trust Smoker.

Some have argued that there is no way vivi can reunite with her friends due to the island blockade. But maybe that’s way smoker has been left so far out of the egghead arc. Smoker could be the one to actually get her through the blockade and to egghead. No one would suspect him harboring a fugitive.

An airship by morgans would be too obvious but a marine vice admiral ship coming to provide reinforcements would be invisible to the elder and other marines. Plus he can fly using his logia abilities to reach the frontier dome.

Smoker has no love for the five elders and their hypocrisy especially after the Arabasta coverup. If vivi tells him what happened at the reverie it’s set in stone of how he will react. No doubt he will be infuriated that the elders committed such a dishonorable act on Arabasta and would try to undermine them by getting vivi out of their hands and in the strawhats

[iron zephyr]

I think smoker is headed to egg island imo

[loud nimbus]

Why so late? Last I checked he was at G-8.